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Interview with Artelia Melba Bryant

November 8, 1994 Transcript of an Interview about Life in the Jim Crow South Durham (N.C.) Interviewer: Greta Ai-Yu Niu ID: btvnc03003 Interview Number: 307

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Interview with Artelia Melba Bryant (btvnc03003), interviewed by Greta Ai-Yu Niu, Durham (N.C.), November 8, 1994, Behind the Veil: Documenting African-American Life in the Jim Crow South Digital Collection, John Hope Franklin Research Center, Duke University Libraries. Behind the Veil: Documenting African-American Life in the Jim Crow South An oral history project to record and preserve the living memory of African American life during the age of legal segregation in the American South, from the 1890s to the 1950s. ORIGINAL PROJECT Center for Documentary Studies at Duke University (1993-1995)  

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Center for Documentary Studies at Duke University Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South

Interview with Artelia Melba Bryant

Durham, NC

Interviewed by Greta Ai-Yu Niu

Unedited Transcript by Cathy Mann

Artelia Bryant 2

1. Niu: What is your name and the date you were born?

2. Bryant: My name is Artelia Melba Bryant and I was born on March 8, 1921.

3. Niu: And where were you born?

4. Bryant: I was born in Phoebus, Virginia which is now incorporated into Hampton, Virginia.

But I always say Phoebus because that's really the township that I was born in.

5. Niu: Is Phoebus a small town?

6. Bryant: Yes.

7. Niu: About how many people?

8. Bryant: I doubt if it was more than five thousand. It was small. But by being incorporated

with Hampton, Virginia it's now a much larger place, larger area and population.

9. Niu: Was it incorporated into Hampton when you were there?

10. Bryant: No, no. That was done in the early fifties.

11. Niu: And when did you leave there?

12. Bryant: I left that area in 1939 and I went to Hampton University, Hampton Institute at that

time from 1937-39 and then I came to North Carolina to Durham and attended what was then

North Carolina College. I believe it was College for Negroes at that time. And I finished

there in 1942.

Artelia Bryant 3

13. Niu: Would you tell us ( )?

14. Bryant: Physical education and chemistry.

15. Niu: And were those unusual things to study at the time?

16. Bryant: Not necessarily, no.

17. Niu: For women?

18. Bryant: No I don't think so because physical education played a much greater role in the

school systems then than it does now in the school systems.

19. Niu: What were you planning to do with those things?

20. Bryant: Well I was going to teach but I found out that I was in the wrong field. When I

came to Durham I changed my major to business. I finished North Carolina which is now

North Carolina Central University. But I finished in commerce with a bachelor's, B.S. in

commerce which I did much better in.

21. Niu: Did you enjoy it more?

22. Bryant: Yes. I had better skills in that area.

23. Niu: Could you say a little bit more about what you mean by better skills?

Artelia Bryant 4

24. Bryant: I just could do better in that field than I did in physical education. That

encompassed of course typing and bookkeeping and shorthand. I wasn't so good in

shorthand but I did an excellent job in typing.

25. Niu: And did you work when you were in college?

26. Bryant: Yes I had a job on campus to help with programs in national youth administration.

That was a government financed program for college students. At that time the national

president or the person who was hired by the government to administrate that program was

Mary McLeod Bethune. Have you heard her? She founded the Bethune Cookman College

in Florida. She was appointed by Franklin D. Roosevelt to handle that program.

27. Niu: Did you ( ).

28. Bryant: Oh no, no, no, no. That particular program was in many schools to help black

students and of course she was a black woman.

29. Niu: ( ).

30. Bryant: Whatever was assigned to me maybe. Maybe I had to straighten up a room or ( ) a

closet and things like that. Some students may have had jobs in the administrative office,

filing and things like that. So there were many types of jobs. Some worked in the cafeteria.

31. Niu: And did you ( ) in business ( )?

32. Bryant: Well not necessarily, no. It was more or less I don't think they coordinated those

two, you know your skills and what you were doing. But it was just a program to help you

Artelia Bryant 5

with your financing in college. You didn't actually get the money but you got credit for it. I

wish I could remember more about it but the dean of women at North Carolina Central

administered the program there and I'm sure they had some status of a place in other schools.

33. Niu: Was this your first job?

34. Bryant: No. I had worked when I was in high school in Phoebus.

35. Niu: What did you do when you were in high school, if you don't mind?

36. Bryant: Well, no I don't mind. I had several jobs off and on. One I worked in a restaurant

in Hampton, Virginia. I could get on a trolley car. I think the fare was a nickel and where I

lived and where the job was, it was all on a trolley route. I didn't have to go off of the main

street to get to the job. That was one job I had, taking orders, giving it to the head cook or

the person in charge. And I would also, you know, set the tables, clean the tables. And at

one time the lady decided she would try me on, they made homemade rolls and she had me

trying to set up the rolls. But for some reason my hands didn't do well and the dough would

stick to my hands. But it was quite an experience. That's one job that I had. Another one I

worked for a family in Hampton. It was a husband and wife and one or two children. So I

did cleaning, ironing. They had a mangle type iron in the home.

37. Niu: A what?

38. Bryant: Mangle. I think it's m-a-n-g-l-e. It was a machine that you could look and put the

heated part on the garment and then lift it up in time for it to be ironed and not let it stay there

Artelia Bryant 6

long and burn anything. And I did babysitting. Well, I didn't do any cooking or anything

because I didn't know how really.

39. Niu: How old were you, do you remember?

40. Bryant: I believe I was about fifteen years old.

41. Niu: You were about fifteen and you were working for this family. Was it a white family or

black family?

42. Bryant: Yes, white un-huh.

43. Niu: And at the same time you were working at the restaurant?

44. Bryant: No, no, no. These were different times. So I imagine I may have worked at the

restaurant after I worked with this family. Then I had another job, it was short lived, down in

Phoebus. I tried to iron for some folks but that didn't last too long, a week or two. Then I

had another one right in Phoebus, in that area they had two beaches. One was Buckroe

Beach for whites and Bay Shore Beach was for blacks. And I had a job at Buckroe Beach

but that would be during the summer. But I don't think I kept that long because the person

who hired me had this big house and on weekends they had a lot of people coming in to stay.

But it was like people sleeping in the hall and all of that sort of thing and I guess I kept that

one about a week or two. That was not anything that I really wanted to do. And I don't

remember whether that job came, I think it came before the restaurant and working with this

family. As I remember the job at the restaurant was possibly the last job that I had in that

area.

Artelia Bryant 7

45. Niu: The restaurant was the last one?

46. Bryant: Yeah.

47. Niu: And was that mostly for blacks?

48. Bryant: Oh yes, it was a black owned business. At that time, you know, that was a part of

my life that I know was segregated. My parents divorced when I was about sixteen, maybe

fifteen and before that time my father was a welder, a blacksmith. You know what a

blacksmith is? Okay, a welder and he also had a garage and he had a little gas station. We

sold Esso gasoline. At that time there were certain things that made an impact on me. I used

to pump gas. At that time the gasoline was up at the top of a globe and then you would push

it until the number of gallons came down and then you'd stop. And on many occasions

during the summer if a white person would drive up and if one of us came out to wait on

them they'd pull off. Yes, they didn't buy any gas from us. Most of our business was I would

say black. I remember the president of North Carolina Mutual Life Insurance Company at

that time was C.C. Spaulding, Sr. and I remember that he came by our place and bought

some gasoline.

49. Niu: How did you know it was him?

50. Bryant: Well, I think my father was there at the time and he knew him and he told me who

he was.

51. Niu: How did your father know it was him?

Artelia Bryant 8

52. Bryant: Well, my father was quite grown so Mr. Spaulding was a well known figure. Even

today there are some people that say he's still president of North Carolina Mutual Life

Insurance Company. And so I mean his image and his impact on blacks was so great. I

guess to us in the east coast he was to blacks like maybe FDR was to whites you know. He

was just that well known. Then my family had bought us a set of books on black history and

Mr. Spaulding's picture was in there too. Very often I would go through that book just to

remember names and all. For instance, Mary McLeod Bethune was in that book. So there

was a little background there that we had as children that if we paid any attention we would

know some names and pictures, recognize people by pictures.

53. One interesting that I would like to say is during that time my parents and other blacks paid

taxes in Phoebus but we were not provided an education. In elementary school there was no

provision for education for black children living in Phoebus.

54. Niu: Where did you go to school then?

55. Bryant: Hampton Institute which is now Hampton University provided elementary

education for us. It was called Whittier School and they also provided a high school

education too. And the children, the black students from Hampton, Virginia would come to

Whittier School and get their high school education too. Now Hampton, Virginia provided

elementary school education.

56. Niu: Was that public for any child in Hampton or did you have to pay?

Artelia Bryant 9

57. Bryant: It had to be. No there was no payment. It had to be because they were providing

education for black students. And even though we didn't have any champions and so my

parents, you know, paid taxes with other blacks but no elementary school education was

provided.

58. Niu: Did you enjoy going all the way over to Hampton, was it a long trip?

59. Bryant: Well it wasn't a long trip. I could walk to school. The school was right on the edge

of Hampton's campus. The site is there now but it was a huge wooden building and you had

to go outdoors to the lavatory.

60. Niu: What kind of lavatory?

61. Bryant: For the restrooms, that kind of lavatory.

62. Niu: I was thinking of when you were there in college.

63. Bryant: No this was when I was a little girl, six years old, seven. That's alright, that's okay.

We had to go out to the, I'll say, toilet. (Laughter) We had to go outside to get to the toilet.

By the time I reached age twelve, maybe eleven or twelve, Hampton Institute which is now

Hampton University built a nice brick building. It was really I guess one of the latest things

in a school for blacks all over the country. Because they built this building, one side was for

the elementary students and the other side was for the high school students. That was back in

the early 1930's. So we had a nice gymnasium. We had locker rooms, showers. You know

that was sort of unheard of in a black school.

Artelia Bryant 10

64. Niu: Do you know how Hampton got their money to build this?

65. Bryant: Hampton, like many black schools, had some benefactors from the north, whites

from the north. North Carolina Central even had benefactors at one time from the north.

Chitney Hall is named after a white person. But anyhow we'll get back to Phoebus and

Hampton. Oh they built the, there was a George P. Phoenix high school and it was named

after one of Hampton's former presidents. So we had a nice chemistry lab there and biology

room and a music room. That was required of us to take music. Even in the elementary

school we had music appreciation and as little children we had to listen to the Damrosch

program. I think the man's name was Walter Damrosch. He was a musician but there were

records out that we would listen to, music by the Damrosch program. Part of it, well it was

music appreciation, and we would listen to the sounds of instruments, various instruments,

string, wind and what is it, and brass.

66. Niu: Was this music mostly classical?

67. Bryant: Mostly. I mean we just didn't...

68. Niu: So it wasn't contemporary?

69. Bryant: Well, not so much. It was possibly both. I'm forgetting about that. Some

contemporary. Most of it was classical music.

70. Niu: I have a couple of questions from when you were talking earlier about Hampton. Why

did you, you were working for your father at the gas station?

Artelia Bryant 11

71. Bryant: No, I wasn't really working for him but whatever family member was available, you

know, we were taught to pump gas. I had two brothers and they would do that and my

mother sometimes did the same thing. So weren't on his payroll. (Laughter)

72. Niu: When you decided to start working for the family in Hampton, why did you work the

job?

73. Bryant: Well by that time I guess my parents had divorced so I was more or less, my mother

had to go to work. She did domestic work. At one time she sewed, she did some sewing for

a dry cleaning place and alterations because she could sew. She made slip covers at home,

you know, for people. Then she was a housekeeper for a Catholic priest down at Fort

Monroe, Virginia. Fort Monroe is sort of south of Phoebus but it's right on the Hampton

Roads water you know. You've heard of Fort Monroe. That would be one of the forts that

played a predominate part in World War I. That's one of the forts there and you can go there

now and see where the guns were and whatnot. It's very much like it was many years ago

when I was a child.

74. Niu: So they kept it?.

75. Bryant: Oh yeah. They use it to, more or less as an arsenal and that kind of stuff.

76. Niu: So after your parents divorced you had already began working?

77. Bryant: Un-huh.

78. Niu: You began working ( )?

Artelia Bryant 12

79. Bryant: Yeah I did some work then. I was still in school and I would work during the

summer.

80. Niu: How did you get your first job?

81. Bryant: You know I really don't know. I don't remember checking the paper for classified

ads. I really don't. I don't know whether somebody said so-and-so needs, you know by word

of mouth, that type of thing.

82. Niu: After your parents divorced who did you live with?

83. Bryant: I lived with my mother.

84. Niu: Still in Phoebus?

85. Bryant: Yeah, still in Phoebus.

86. Niu: And your brothers?

87. Bryant: My brothers, one was in college and one was in Florida.

88. Niu: So you were the only child living with your mother?

89. Bryant: Yes.

90. Niu: ( ).

91. Bryant: That's correct.

Artelia Bryant 13

92. Niu: And did you see your father much?

93. Bryant: Yes I saw him. I did, un-huh.

94. Niu: ( ).

95. Bryant: No, no. My mother's home was in Wilson, North Carolina and then her brothers

were scattered all in Alabama and New Jersey, Richmond, Virginia, California. But there

were no gatherings as such like a family reunion. The gatherings were mostly at

Christmastime and funerals. And that was about it.

96. Niu: And what about your father's family? Were they in the area?

97. Bryant: Not in the Phoebus area, no. But they were from, I guess, about a hundred miles

west of Phoebus. They were in an area called Emporia, Virginia.

98. Niu: I wonder if we could we could just jump to after you went to North Carolina College.

99. Bryant: I finished there in 1942.

100.Niu: And what did you do then?

101.Bryant: Well in June of that same year I think I went home, went to Virginia for about a

week and I had gotten a job at North Carolina Mutual Life Insurance Company.

102.Niu: And what was your position?

Artelia Bryant 14

103.Bryant: Well at that time I was just like, it was a clerical type position. I retired from

North Carolina Mutual in August 1983.

104.Niu: Oh my goodness.

105.Bryant: Yes, right. (Laughter) Oh my goodness is right.

106.Niu: When you first got your job with insurance out of North Carolina College, how did

you feel about working with such a prestigious company?

107.Bryant: I had several different, well it wasn't a whole lot. But I had considered a

government job which I could have gotten but there was a newspaper in Norfolk, "Journal

and Guide", "Norfolk Journal and Guide" newspaper that gave me an offer. I applied for a

job with some school. I don't know whether it was St. Paul's College in Lawrenceville,

Virginia. I was interviewed for a job with them but I didn't get it. And then while I was, and

I'm just remembering something, I had another job at Central. After the NYA job I got a job

with my skills. I worked for the head of the home economics department at Central which

meant that I was typing and doing things like that. Mrs. Diane Dent was the person that was

heading up the department and she tried to get me to stay at Central but I had been through

what she wanted me to do so I needed to get out. So that's when I accepted the job at North

Carolina Mutual. The personnel director at North Carolina Mutual, W.D. Hill, interviewed

me while I was a student, a senior at Central and I agreed to go work with North Carolina

Mutual. By the way, the W.D. Hill Recreation Center in Durham is named after W.D. Hill.

He was the personnel director at North Carolina Mutual. So that began my career with North

Carolina Mutual and I had numerous positions there. But I retired as a mortgage loan

Artelia Bryant 15

assistant at North Carolina Mutual August 12, 1983. I sort of took early retirement. I had

years ago had tried to when IBM and the Research Triangle was development I had applied

for a job out there but I knew from what was going on that they wanted, I was in my forties

then, maybe fifty. But I just felt like I wanted a change and this was a good opportunity.

Because back in the forties and fifties there were not, if you didn't teach school or get into a

profession as a doctor or minister or nursing, I forgot about that, there weren't too many

opportunities in the business field.

108.Niu: You mean for black women?

109.Bryant: Well black women and men really.

110.Niu: Did you try to get a job with other companies?

111.Bryant: No after I didn't get a job out there, I've got a letter, I don't know what I did with it

but it was like I was overqualified. And they were right but they didn't give me a chance to

say well, I'm willing to start. But anyhow, I think over qualification is not the main problem.

I think the real thing was that they thought like if they started me at a certain income level

then they wouldn't be able to keep up with it you know in terms of promotions and whatnot.

But I was willing to start with whatever they were going to give and just having a change you

know.

112.Niu: What were you doing at the Mutual at that point?

113.Bryant: I was still in various positions, nothing of major standard. And one reason is that

in 1942 I started working. Okay, in 1945, August 26, 1945 I married and I married a young

Artelia Bryant 16

man whom I had met at Hampton but I hadn't seen him for years. Not a whole lot of years

but anyhow, and he came to North Carolina Mutual in 1943 I believe. But anyhow we

married in 1945 and there was sort of a rule there that, it was an unwritten rule, that by

advancing the husband the wife wouldn't be advanced. And so many times I had said to my

husband, I said you know, I need to go out and get another job because they look at, and this

is an unwritten thing but I knew it was going on, that oh they're making enough money you

know. And so I just stayed.

114.Niu: How did you feel about this unwritten rule?

115.Bryant: Well I thought it was unfair but then there were things going on then that don't go

on now. They are a little different you know in terms of advancement and whatnot.

116.Niu: Did you ( )?

117.Bryant: Well, women now are given better chances in a company. That old boy syndrome

or whatnot is not as prevalent.

118.Niu: The old boy's network.

119.Bryant: Yeah, network that's right, is not as prevalent now as it was then. And one thing

they almost have to rely on a woman now because the men are going to higher things, you

know, and more of them are going into business for themselves. So it's just a sign of the

times.

120.Niu: And did you stop working for the Mutual?

Artelia Bryant 17

121.Bryant: No, I stayed there for forty-one years.

122.Niu: And that's the time when you retired?

123.Bryant: Yes.

124.Niu: Did you start a travel agency?

125.Bryant: I did but I was still working and it wasn't a travel agency. I noticed in your letter

travel agency but...

126.Niu: ( )

127.Bryant: Okay, okay yeah. I really did, I joined with two other ladies and we formed a

travel group but it was motor coach tours so we didn't need agents. We planned and escorted

groups on tours. And one lady dropped out and then the other one, I continued to work with

the other lady. She died in nineteen eighty-something. But anyhow our main trip was a

theater trip to New York every Thanksgiving. We could fill up a bus and go. We made all of

the arrangements with the hotel, with the Thanksgiving dinner and with the theaters to get

tickets.

128.Niu: When did it start, do you remember?

129.Bryant: I should remember because at the time that we started we had to get a license from

the Interstate Commerce Commission, ICC. So when we applied for the license we had

some opposition to us getting the license. Now we didn't own any buses. We just had a nice

mailing list and got our friends and their friends if they wanted to go, they could send in a

Artelia Bryant 18

deposit and all. But we got opposition from the Greyhound Bus Company and Carolina

Trailways. And of course when we did our, we won over them but we did it by mail. So

ICC, the Interstate Commerce Commission, sent us I guess it was a brief of why Carolina

Trailways objected to our getting the license and they had their report in that they weren't

doing but so much in the business and they thought that we would be a threat to them. But I

would practice law then (Laughter). No I wasn't but I did when that came. And so we just

had to say well we don't own buses. Why are you objecting? We can use your buses. And

then Greyhound objected too but their attorney called us to find out what was going on. I'm

sure they did a lot of research and said well hey, what threat could they be but we will call.

And this is what I told them. We don't own buses. We don't intend to buy any buses but we

can use your bus. In fact, we had used Greyhound before we applied for the license. In other

words, we had one trip through Greyhound. We went to Asheville and we had a bus load.

So we had to pay Greyhound so much money and then we got a little bit. But we were

saying if we could plan the trips and handle our own thing, then our percentage of profit

would be what Greyhound was going to get over and above using their bus. So that's why we

applied for the license. But anyhow we had a lot of controversy in writing about this license.

And finally ICC determined from what we were saying that we couldn't be a threat to them

and so they gave us an ICC number and all and we were in business.

130.Niu: That's great.

131.Bryant: Now they don't even require a license.

132.Niu: Do you have an idea of what time this was?

Artelia Bryant 19

133.Bryant: It was about 1977.

134.Niu: So this was while you were working for North Carolina Mutual?

135.Bryant: Oh yes. I was still employed then but this was a sideline you know.

136.Niu: I wanted to ask you when you were working at N.C. Mutual, did you have friends

from college who were also working at N.C. Mutual?

137.Bryant: Yeah, un-huh.

138.Niu: Did you see them regularly?

139.Bryant: Well I worked there so we saw each other about everyday. They were not, maybe

there was one or two that was in my age bracket and a lot of them are dead now. I saw a

picture not along ago of the Mutualites that worked at the Mutual at that time.

140.Niu: Mutualites?

141.Bryant: Yeah Mutualites, I just say that. I coined that phrase, Mutualites.

142.Niu: Did you keep in touch with them after you left? Are they in Durham?

143.Bryant: Not too much. I guess when you get a little older you do a little more, make you

know more contact and try to keep them up but not a whole lot, no.

144.Niu: Friends from college?

145.Bryant: No, not N.C. Carolina, North Carolina Mutual. Yeah in college okay I did.

Artelia Bryant 20

146.Niu: Were there other friends who were also working there at the Mutual from N.C.

College?

147.Bryant: Very few.

148.End of Tape 1 - Side A

149.Niu: I actually wanted to ask you about life in Durham when you were working at the

Mutual. Did you ( )?

150.Bryant: No, when I first came I stayed with a family for about three years until I married.

151.Niu: Were they someone that you knew?

152.Bryant: No, Mr. Hill, the personnel director, found me the place and this is a retired school

teacher and her daughter. And they were also members of White Rock Baptist Church and

that's how I got connected with White Rock. They lived right off of Fayetteville Street.

That's one of the main streets.

153.Niu: What did you do for fun?

154.Bryant: Well, I'm trying to think of what do you mean by fun.

155.Niu: In your free time.

156.Bryant: In my free time? Okay. Before I married I did some volunteer work and I guess

I'm about the only one that remembers this group. There are two people living now I think.

At one time Durham did not have any recreation for young blacks. So there was a committee

Artelia Bryant 21

appointed, I.R. Holmes, Irvin Holmes. The I.R. Holmes Center is named after him but he

worked for the city of Durham in recreation and his task was to have a group of people come

together and provide recreation for blacks in Durham. I happened to be volunteered. I really

don't know how I became secretary of that group. But anyhow what we did was plan dances

and activities for young blacks.

157.Niu: Where did you have the dances?

158.Bryant: At the Civic Center, the old Civic Center.

159.Niu: What kind of activities?

160.Bryant: Well mainly dances because about that time the, mainly dances.

161.Niu: Would you mind telling me about these dances?

162.Bryant: Yes they paid small fees and I don't believe there were bands, mainly what they

called jukeboxes. It did give them something to do on weekends. So this activity was

provided for blacks not only in this section but in Walltown, wherever.

163.Niu: Walltown?

164.Bryant: Yeah, Walltown is a section near Northgate.

165.Niu: Do you know why it was called Walltown?

166.Bryant: No I don't because they had a mayor out there, mayor of Walltown. And they have

a Walltown Recreation Center now. Before they had the Walltown Recreation Center, before

Artelia Bryant 22

there was a W.D. Hill, this committee provided some entertainment for the young people.

Then shortly after the city began to take over and that was when they built the W.D. Hill

Recreation Center and from that particular center others have been developed and the city

provides the recreation now.

167.Niu: How often did they have these dances?

168.Bryant: I don't remember but I could safely say they had a dance at least once a month.

169.Niu: Did they ( )?

170.Bryant: I think so. I cannot think. They were well behaved, you know, the participants.

But of course back in the, I wish I could remember the time of it but I believe it was maybe

in the middle 1940's. Some things I can remember because I was or was not married. So I

don't believe that I was married then at that time.

171.Niu: ( )?

172.Bryant: Oh, not really, no because I was supposed to have been grown then and they were

teenagers so I really didn't know.

173.Niu: ( )?

174.Bryant: I think so because they were chaperoned and there was security there. And I don't

remember any adverse activities or incidents during this time.

175.Niu: ( )?

Artelia Bryant 23

176.Bryant: No that's what I was saying. I don't remember anything that, I don't recall. And I

believe had there been something, you know something that happened, controversies what

we call them or what is happening today they would have stopped having them you know.

But I think the whole program was to get the city to focus on the fact that this is something

that we need to do and have these various recreation centers. So after the first recreation

center was built and the city took over the activities, that committee was disbanded. There

was no further use for it because these centers had been organized. I know Walltown was

one and W.D. Hill was another.

177.Niu: ( )?

178.Bryant: That was one thing, at that time the war was going on, World War II. So there was

the USO and they would have dances some weekends or whatnot and I would go. There was

a Camp Butner here and dances were provided. They would have them out at the camp. So

buses would take young ladies out to Camp Butner to the dances. They had chaperons and

when the dance was over we'd get on back. I went to football games a little more than I do

now. Mainly they were North Carolina Central's games. We did a little traveling. My

mother was still living then so I went to Hampton, Virginia, you know, quite often.

179.Niu: ( ) Camp Butner ( )?

180.Bryant: Yeah.

181.Niu: ( )?

182.Bryant: No, no, no, no. At least I didn't know of any. I'll put it that way.

Artelia Bryant 24

183.Niu: ( ).

184.Bryant: Yeah.

185.Niu: ( ).

186.Bryant: Yes, un-huh.

187.Niu: ( )?

188.Bryant: Yes, that's right.

189.Niu: What kinds of things ( ).

190.Bryant: I'm trying to - repeat that question. Maybe I can.

191.Niu: ( ).

192.Bryant: I'm trying to, I can't remember anything that could to be related to your question.

Well, I can't remember - oh, okay. I developed some close friendships by being a young lady

from out of town. There was a couple that we became close friends. Both of them are dead

now but they would invite me over to their home and that friendship has made an impression

on me. They'd invite me over for dinner.

193.Niu: Did they also work at Mutual?

194.Bryant: Yes. Both of them did. In fact I worked under the wife and she was a very

impressionable person, a lot of skills. She knew how to handle people. I remember when I

Artelia Bryant 25

got ready to get married she made me a lingerie set. It was one thing that I haven't said and

that goes back to when I was in the seventh grade. We had a violin at home that my brother,

younger brother who's older than I am tried to play. At our high school we had music

appreciation and on every Saturday morning we had a string instrument class and we paid

twenty-five cents to go and that's how I started with the violin. And I still have the violin. I

don't play it now but I played in the high school orchestra. I brought the violin to Central

when I came and occasionally I would play a solo or something. That seems to have been an

attraction for other students because I don't remember them saying them about having an

orchestra at Central but I found out a few years ago that there was one many years ago.

195.Niu: But not when you were there?

196.Bryant: No, un-huh. So when I came to White Rock they had a Sunday School orchestra

and I played the violin in that group for two or three years. I fell by the wayside when I got

married. But that was, I don't how you are going to use that but anyhow that's something that

brought that to mind is that this couple that invited me, the wife had played the violin so we

had that in common and that sort of brought that incident to mind.

197.Niu: Did you know other ladies who played the violin?

198.Bryant: When I first came to Durham, no, but after I started playing around I played on

programs and I was even asked to play some at a wedding, you know things like that. But I

found out there were a lot of folks that played the violin. My husband has two aunts and they

played. There's a young lady, well she's not young, she's about my age, told me a few years

ago said she stopped playing the violin because of the way I played. But it wasn't that good.

Artelia Bryant 26

(Laughter) I said you shouldn't have stopped. So there were a lot of people that played the

violin that you hear about you know but I never heard them play. It's getting to the point

now that nobody's heard me play either. (Laughter)

199.Niu: What kinds of things did you play?

200.Bryant: The violin? More or less I did semi classical stuff, ( ) for the AG string and ( ),

Minuet in G, things like that. Nothing difficult.

201.Niu: Sounds difficult.

202.Bryant: But I just like to play.

203.Niu: You said you were in the seventh grade when you started playing?

204.Bryant: Yeah, un-huh.

205.Niu: Did you take lessons?

206.Bryant: Well I did take private lessons after we had the Saturday classes. I took private

lessons. I think they were a dollar each.

207.Niu: This is different from the school classes?

208.Bryant: Yes because I was in a class with others. But the private lessons were a dollar and

I kept that up until we couldn't afford them anymore.

209.Niu: Did your parents pay for them?

Artelia Bryant 27

210.Bryant: Un-huh. My parents were paying because I was too young to work then.

211.Niu: Speaking of parents, how did you find it when your parents divorced?

212.Bryant: I was about fifteen or sixteen years old so it was not difficult. At least I didn't

think so. It wasn't a traumatic type of situation. It didn't bother me and I guess the reason

why is that I was old enough to see that things that weren't right and so I was able to handle

it.

213.Niu: Was divorce something that happened occasionally? Was it common?

214.Bryant: Yes. I don't think it was that common and my parents were well known. My

father was a businessman. My mother was a homemaker and you know went to church and

all that sort of thing. But it wasn't common I don't think. It was just something that had to be

done.

215.Niu: Do you think your father being a businessman and owning a business ( )?

216.Bryant: I think so. I believe so but yet I have another background with my mother's people

that I had two uncles in Wilson that, in fact my grandfather started a business.

217.Niu: Your mother's father?

218.Bryant: Father, yes.

219.Niu: What was it?

220.Bryant: He was a mortician, funeral home.

Artelia Bryant 28

221.Niu: Was that in Wilson?

222.Bryant: Yes in Wilson. He started repairing bicycles and then he went into the mortician

business so he had two sons to follow in his footsteps. So I think it came from possibly both

sides, you know. I had an uncle in ( ), Alabama he was a medical doctor but before he

went into that he owned a drug store. And he was a pharmacist too. And he sold ice cream

and things like that. So I think all of that sort of I can say was attributive to my entrepreneur

spirit.

223.Niu: Do you remember when your grandfather started being a mortician?

224.Bryant: Let's see, my cousins in New York wrote a book titled Spoon Bread and

Strawberry Wine. I'm getting ready to get the book. I'm trying to think, I think the business

was started in 1875 but we'll recheck that. And it's still in operation but's it's owned partially

by someone else.

225.Niu: What's the name of it?

226.Bryant: Darden Memorial Funeral Home.

227.Niu: Is that your grandfather's name?

228.Bryant: His name Darden, yes. In fact some years ago before integration there was a high

school named after him, C.H. Darden High School.

229.Niu: In Wilson?

Artelia Bryant 29

230.Bryant: Yes. But with integration a lot of the schools that were named after blacks and all,

the names were merged, the school may have been changed to a middle school or elementary

school, like that.

231.Niu: I've heard of that happening. Why do you think it is happening?

232.Bryant: Now don't ask me that, Greta. You know why. (Laughter) You know why, don't

you?

233.Niu: I think so.

234.Bryant: Tell me what do you think?

235.Niu: I think it may be racist. ( )

236.Bryant: Oh yeah. You hit it on the head. Right. Because a lot of black principals became

non-existent so to speak because if we're going to merge, you know, and if we're going to

take over then a white man would be at the helm. You follow him, you know. So a lot of

positions were eradicated and it's the same thing with school names. You know we had a

tremendous amount of Booker T. Washington high schools and George Washington Carver

high schools. But some of them remained and some didn't. Now they want to change the

name of Hillside.

237.Niu: ( )?

Artelia Bryant 30

238.Bryant: Well, it's been a black high school for years. And I really don't even know why the

name came about but they want to change that because of merging school systems and things

like that. So I don't know how that's going to end up.

239.Niu: ( ) you were in Durham? Did you have children?

240.Bryant: Yes. We were in Durham. No we adopted two children, a boy and a girl. First the

boy. We adopted him in 1962 because that was the year my mother died. I have to relate to

1962. He was twenty-one months when we adopted. Yeah. I was working and I guess, so

we had someone to come into the home and take care of him until he reached nursery school

age. I guess he was almost four I think when he went to nursery school which was in this

area, neighborhood. Then a few years later we adopted a little girl. She was eighteen months

then.

241.Niu: And did you have ( ).

242.Bryant: Oh yes. It was another lady. No, no. Another lady took care of her until she could

get into nursery school. It wasn't too long. You know once they are potty trained you can

move forward. Well, that's my son in my picture with his family. And my daughter has a

big picture. I put it in my bedroom. That's her little girl right there. They were here this

weekend.

243.Niu: She's very cute. This is very interesting. How did you come to adopt these two

children? Did you interview?

244.Bryant: Oh yes. Durham Social Services area.

Artelia Bryant 31

245.Niu: Do you know if the children were from this area?

246.Bryant: No, no. Both of them were in Montgomery County, North Carolina.

247.Niu: Would you like to tell me a little bit about how the process worked when you first

adopted them? Did you go to pick them up or did they bring them to you?

248.Bryant: No, no, no. You know they interview you in Social Services and they interview

you several months in advance to see if you change your mind or your concept of what you

are looking for. We went through that several months plus we were told of children in

different areas in North Carolina. The lady called me and told me she had a boy and a girl in

Nashville, North Carolina. We had applied for a boy and a girl initially at the same time so

that we wouldn't have to go through two sessions since we knew we wanted two children.

And she showed us a picture but they were too fair, light hair, straight hair and we told her

that we didn't think they matched. And they didn't and we wouldn't want to have to make

excuses for a child that you're going to adopt. So we went to Kinston to look at a child, a

little boy. He had an asthma condition and we decided that would not be good because my

husband was a boy scout leader and so you know going out camping in bad weather and all,

that probably wouldn't work. And we went to some place and saw a little girl but she didn't

take to us. I felt like that was important. You know we could get along just first seeing each

other then maybe we could make it afterward. So then the next time she called and said it

was a little boy in Montgomery County so we went to see him. We took him shopping, just

walking up and down the street and whatnot because the place was small and she wanted to

know if we wanted to bring him home the weekend. And so we said well, yeah we'll see how

Artelia Bryant 32

he does. So he got on in the car with us and we came on to Durham. My husband went out

to the store and bought him pajamas and things that we saw that he needed. And he seemed

to kind of like us a little bit so we didn't take him back. He just stayed with us.

249.Niu: When was this?

250.Bryant: 1962, yeah, un-huh. Then in 1963 we took his suitcase back because he had a little

suitcase with a few things in it. So we took them back and we saw the same lady. He was in

a foster home. We saw her and she had this little girl and she said you'd better take this one.

I said no way. (Laughter) I said see you later. A few months later the case worker called

and said she had a little girl in Montgomery County so we said well we'll go and check her

out. And it turned out that it was the same little girl that I said no, no, no. (Laughter) And

there again she came for a weekend visit and she stayed.

251.Niu: Was Social Services ( ) black children?

252.Bryant: Un-huh.

253.Niu: Were the case workers with Social Services offer black babies or were there white

babies?

254.Bryant: Well I believe, I don't remember but I'm safe in saying that the case worker in

Durham was white and I believe in Montgomery County she possibly was white but I just

don't remember. And I don't know whether foster homes now, if black people will keep

white children. I don't know. I mean there's nothing wrong with it but I just don't know. I

just hadn't really thought about it.

Artelia Bryant 33

255.Niu: Did you know ( ) with other foster children?

256.Bryant: Very few. Un-huh, very few.

257.Niu: Had you been familiar with adopting children before ?

258.Bryant: Yes. I had been pregnant three times. I couldn't keep them. Spontaneous

abortions, that's what they called them. So I told my husband we better go on and adopt. He

kept saying, you know, he didn't make up his mind so then I had an operation in 1961 I

believe. It was like this is it. So then he said well we'll go on and adopt because I wasn't

going to be able to have children. So that was where it started.

259.Niu: When you were pregnant with the children did you go in the hospital? ( )?

260.Bryant: I went to the hospital, oh yeah I had prenatal care on each occasion.

261.Niu: Did you go to the hospital each time?

262.Bryant: Well the first time I went the period for something to happen was long, like

overnight. The next time, both the times after that it happened at home. So that was it.

263.Niu: Which hospital did you go to, in Durham?

264.Bryant: Yes. They had Lincoln Hospital where the Lincoln Community Health Center is

now. There was a hospital and they've torn that down but that's where I went the first time.

I'm trying to think. I didn't go to the hospital the last time because it like happened in the

bathroom. Of course I called the doctor about it but I didn't go to the hospital.

Artelia Bryant 34

265.Niu: ( ) health care at Lincoln Hospital?

266.Bryant: Yeah.

267.Niu: Were all the doctors there black?

268.Bryant: Black, un-huh. Maybe a white one was called in as a consultant but mainly black.

269.Niu: And were the nurses also black?

270.Bryant: Yeah. See they had a nursing school there at one time. They don't have it now. I

think it was the end of 1971 when they stopped the nursing school. The reason why I know

the year is because I saw a picture. They had a reunion here in Durham and the year 1971

was when they pointed that was the end of the nursing school program.

271.Niu: Speaking of reunions, did you ever attend a reunion at Hampton?

272.Bryant: No, I didn't finish Hampton so my reunions would be at North Carolina Central. A

couple of years ago I attended my fiftieth class reunion. And that was real nice. That was

real, real nice. And matter of fact I went to the reunion banquet a couple of days ago. They

had the homecoming at Central last Saturday night and I went to the reunion banquet.

273.Niu: Did you ( ) black hospital and white hospital, ( )?

274.Bryant: As far as I know no mixture. That was definitely as far as I can remember

separatism, okay? So by it being separate and not, I would say champion, it was just

separate. And that was it until the civil rights movement and all and then you began to look

Artelia Bryant 35

at things differently and to find out how unfair it's been through the years. In other words,

my husband says that had baseball been integrated we would never have heard of Babe Ruth.

And that's a good point.

275.Niu: ( )?

276.Bryant: Yes.

277.Niu: Did you remember people organizing ( ) before the civil rights movement?

278.Bryant: Un-uh, no. Certainly I don't remember.

279.Niu: ( )?

280.Bryant: Now I don't remember any, you know, political happenings in that area. In fact I'm

trying to remember whether my parents went to vote at all. I don't remember.

281.Niu: Do you remember the first time you voted?

282.Bryant: It was here in Durham, yeah. Don't ask me the year. (Laughter) My husband may

be able to tell about that because he was one of the first black registrars in Durham. I know

we were married when he set up a precinct at Hillside High School and they paid him five

cents a name for every person that he was able to get registered. So we were sending people

to the poles then. But he was one of the first black registrars. And he's still a registrar. That's

where he is today. He's sort of the granddaddy of registrars in Durham, white or black

because he's been hanging in there all these years. And I would say that, we were married

then so maybe it was 1946, in that time, that era.

Artelia Bryant 36

283.Niu: Did you stay in close contact with your brother, ( )?

284.Bryant: Oh, yeah.

285.Niu: ( )?

286.Bryant: No, no. My oldest brother was in Boston but he lives in Durham now. And my

other brother, he went to Florida and then my mother, by the time my father and mother

divorced she sent for him. She wanted him to come home so he came home. She sent him

the money to come home. And he worked at the shipyard in Newport News for awhile and

then I had an uncle in New Jersey who was an enterprising gent and he wanted him to come

up there and help him develop some business. He's still in New Jersey.

287.Niu: Did you ever participate in a sorority?

288.Bryant: Oh yeah.

289.Niu: Which one?

290.Bryant: Alpha Kappa Alpha.

291.Niu: Where?

292.Bryant: Central, 1942 is when I, Spring of 1942.

293.Niu: Was it a very large sorority?

294.Bryant: Not very large, no. I don't know why I didn't think to get some pictures out.

Artelia Bryant 37

295.Niu: I'd love to see them.

296.Bryant: Okay, if I can find them.

297.End of Tape 1 - Side B.

298.Tape 2 - Side A

299.Bryant: And there's a Daughters of Dorcas Club. And that club was organized in

September, 1917 and it's still meeting.

300.Niu: How often do you meet?

301.Bryant: Once a month. But when I joined they were meeting twice a month. I don't

remember the year but I was working then and I said now that's a bit much.

302.Niu: And when did you join?

303.Bryant: I wish I could tell the year.

304.Niu: What do you do with the Daughters of Dorcas?

305.Bryant: Well when they first started out it was a group of ladies back in 1917 and on that

used the needle. They would sew, make things for needy families. They would take a little

money and help somebody out. Now we, last year we had a what you call, we prepared

personal kits for people who went to the Genesis House here in Durham. People that need

help they'll stay for a little while. Do you know about the Genesis House?

Artelia Bryant 38

306.Niu: It is ( )?

307.Bryant: No, no. It's down in the downtown area near the library.

308.Niu: No, I don't.

309.Bryant: Okay. We took wash cloths and put little toilet articles in them. The idea was you

check your house and find out what you had brought home from a hotel. So there was lotion,

shampoo and we had soap and toothbrushes, things like that a person would need if they

came to a home and had children or whatnot. So we had to put these articles in a wash cloth

prior to that night's meeting and took them to the Genesis House. That's the type of thing we

do now. Then we had speakers to come in and talk to us about health care, kinds of

insurance we need because just about everybody in there is at least sixty-five or more. So

our oldest member is still living. She's one of the persons that got me in the club. She's

ninety-eight years old. She's bed ridden but she had her ninety-eighth birthday last Monday,

the 31st of October.

310.Niu: What's her name?

311.Bryant: Gazella T. Lipscomb.

312.Niu: How did you join this club with Mrs. Lipscomb?

313.Bryant: Mrs. Lipscomb and her sister. Her sister is deceased. But they also worked at

North Carolina Mutual and they were my husband's aunts, so it's like they kept urging me to

Artelia Bryant 39

join and I said well if I don't join I can't fight it any longer. Just go on and join and that's

what I did. So I'm a past president of that group just as of last year, president emeritus.

314.Niu: ( )?

315.Bryant: Yes, un-huh.

316.Niu: Do you remember when you were in the Daughters of Dorcas Club? In the 1960's or

the 1940's?

317.Bryant: I know I wasn't in it in the 1940's. Let's say I joined in the 1960's to be safe. I

don't remember the exact year but in the 1960's.

318.Niu: Do you remember possibly who was president at the time?

319.Bryant: Yes. That should give me an idea shouldn't it? Okay, maybe. Mrs. Lottie Merritt

was president when I joined, yes.

320.Niu: How do the meetings work? One person or?

321.Bryant: President and regular officers. The president led the meetings and they had some

very good programs. Sometimes travel logs, interesting things, informative type things and

they did some good too.

322.Niu: How would new members get into it?

323.Bryant: Invited. They are invited. And a few years ago I looked around and I said well I'm

the youngest thing in here and after awhile everybody else will be gone and I'll be by myself.

Artelia Bryant 40

So I urged them to start inviting people to join to perpetuate the club and they've done a

good job doing that. They done an excellent job.

324.Niu: When was the last member that was invited? About what time?

325.Bryant: Last year. We've taken in at least five members since last December.

326.Niu: How large is the club now?

327.Bryant: We have about twenty or twenty-five active members, paying memberships. We

have some who are not able to come to the meetings all the time but we keep them on the roll

too and try to remember them Thanksgiving with a basket of fruit or flowers and to

remember them at Christmas with, you know, a piece of change just to say thank you.

328.Niu: When you joined do you remember how many that was?

329.Bryant: I would imagine it was about the same as it is now. We had a number of people, of

members to pass but we've also brought in members so it's just about the same.

330.Niu: And you're saying there are about twenty or twenty-five active members?

331.Bryant: Yes, we do.

332.Niu: Do you remember how much it is to join?

333.Bryant: I don't, I really don't. I'm trying to think. Maybe about between eight and ten

dollars per year and now they have just raised it. Well not just raised it, a few years ago we

made it fifteen dollars a year. They would have extra efforts to increase the treasury such as

Artelia Bryant 41

a grapefruit party. You know you count the number of seeds in your grapefruit and then you

pay a nickel or a penny for each seed. That type of thing. A few years ago by my having

motor coach trips I suggested that we have a Fall foliage trip to the mountains and we did

that. We weren't successful this year. I think it's because of the place that they chose. I was

trying to find something different so we planned a trip to Chattanooga, Tennessee but nobody

really wanted to go. (Laughter) So that was a means of getting extra money in our treasury.

We've been to Natural Bridge, Virginia a couple of times and they enjoyed that because on

the way back we would stop at fruit stands and they would get vinegar and molasses and

fresh apples and cabbage, cabbages mountain grown, whatever. I remember one year we

didn't get enough people and I wasn't going to be outdone so we had enough for a van and we

took about six people.

334.Niu: When did you do that?

335.Bryant: About four years ago.

336.Niu: In the 1960's when you started with Daughters of Dorcas, do you remember how

people decided who to invite?

337.Bryant: A friend or someone that you saw that would be an asset to the club. That person

may not have been a friend as such but you had good relationships with this person and you

thought they would make a nice personality to have and try to find people that could take

minutes and make reports, you know, financial reports and be chair lady of a committee, a

function. These are the things that you would look at and no one has ever been turned down.

No it's not like the sorority. You don't vote on them. I think the first meeting I went to in

Artelia Bryant 42

this club and the ladies were all sitting around and when I was introduced it was, I've never

been in a group that would give you such a radiation of a warm feeling and friendliness. It

was like hey, these are some wonderful people.

338.Niu: Where did you first meet them?

339.Bryant: Well they met at different homes for a long time and it was in a home. I dare say it

probably one of my aunt's, my husband's aunt's home here.

340.Niu: Did any of the ladies in the club work at North Carolina Mutual? Or what kind of

work did they do?

341.Bryant: Most of them were either teachers or housewives and I know my husband's aunts

worked at the Mutual. Some did social work and a lot of them were just housewives. Like

Dr. Shepard's mother was a member of that club. But we've had some very prestigious

people in the club. One lady taught English at North Carolina Central.

342.Niu: Who was that?

343.Bryant: Mrs. Julia Harris. And then Dean Ruth Rush, she was the dean of women at

Central. She was a member of the club. And Annie Day Shepard, Dr. Shepard's mother was

a member of the club. His wife was a member of the club. And then Miss Lottie Merritt was

a member. She was the wife of Ed Merritt. Her father was Dr. A.M. Moore. Let me get you

straight. He was one of the founders of North Carolina Mutual. Mrs. Lottie Merritt, she was

also the founder and editor of a Negro braille magazine. She started out writing braille, the

Artelia Bryant 43

"Reader's Digest" in braille and she had worked with a gent whose name was John

Washington. He's still living. Mrs. Merritt is deceased but that magazine is still going on.

344.Niu: So the Daughters of Dorcas is a very important club.

345.Bryant: Un-huh. We had our seventy-fifth anniversary when I was president of the club.

I'll show it to you at the end, the book that we published.

346.Niu: You started to talk about Alpha Kappa Alpha. You talked about how nobody was

rejected. In Alpha Kappa Alpha did you have to apply?

347.Bryant: Their process is if someone is interested they would have three people to write

letters or whatnot to support this individual.

348.Niu: People who were already members?

349.Bryant: Yes, un-huh.

350.Niu: After the letters.

351.Bryant: I don't know whether I need to tell you what. (Laughter)

352.Niu: ( ) or private too?

353.Bryant: Well after the letters generally the names would be presented, whatever the word is

not credentials but the - I don't want to say credentials - but sort of like a resume of this

person would be read, you know, to the body and then at another meeting they would vote.

So that's generally what would happen.

Artelia Bryant 44

354.Niu: And what happened during the time between someone saying I'd like to join Alpha

Kappa Alpha and then the voting? Did you have to do something during that time or would

you just wait?

355.Bryant: Now I think there's a processing committee. Processing is not the word but a

committee that would meet with these people and sort of give them an orientation of what the

sorority's about, that type of thing. Because they may want to change their minds or

something, you know. I don't think so.

356.Niu: Did you apply and how many others ( )? Do you remember?

357.Bryant: No I don't because see I was in undergraduate school and I had never heard of

sororities because they didn't have them in Virginia. There was excitement on the campus,

you know and there was a group of Deltas I never heard of. AKA's, I'd never heard of them.

So several people approached me and I said well yeah I'd be interested. They had what they

called an Ivy Leaf Club that you joined that first.

358.Niu: What was that?

359.Bryant: Ivy Leaf Club. The Ivy is the growing vine. That's one of the symbols of Alpha

Kappa Alpha. Whenever there was a ceremony or something they would use ivy

decorations, get fresh ivy you know and decorate the table. That's like I guess call it a

flower, the sorority would. That's how I got started being in the Ivy Leaf Club.

360.Niu: Did everyone in the Ivy Leaf Club ( )?

Artelia Bryant 45

361.Bryant: I can't answer that. I really don't know.

362.Niu: So it was very exciting to you?

363.Bryant: Oh yeah it was.

364.Niu: Tell me a little bit about what was exciting about it.

365.Bryant: I don't know. Everybody on the campus was excited. It was like a rush week you

know and this is all so new to me. I had never even heard of sororities until then and I began

to learn more. The name and prestige of being invited to join and all, that just was it.

366.Niu: Did you feel like you had experienced things with other groups you were in either at

Hampton Institute or the high school that made you that were similar?

367.Bryant: No. I was in the girl's reserve in high school but that's nothing like - that was more

or less related to the YWCA, girls' reserve. It just wasn't the chance this was. (Laughter)

368.Niu: I want to ask you if you have any final remarks, things that you think about ( )

that was really important to you at that time?

369.Bryant: Well there were some things when I first, I don't remember whether I was married

or not, but anyhow I believe I was. I belonged at one time to a group called the Housewives

League and it was an axillary of the Durham Business and Professional Chain. Before

integration and changes and all, our motto was to buy where you can work. And we had a

strong program going on. The housewives would ban together and urge people to buy from

blacks. In other words if you can't be employed there then you need to buy where you can

Artelia Bryant 46

work. We had parades during what they called trade week. And the Durham Business and

Professional Chain is still in operation but the focus is different now. Integration I don't

think helped blacks as much as we thought it would. Of course we can go to hotels wherever

your money can, you can afford. But we don't know but if there hadn't been integration

would we have had black hotels and motels? We just don't know. But I remember very well

the president of Morehouse College came to Durham to speak. His name was Benjamin

Mays. He's a well known black figure too. And he spoke at North Carolina Mutual during

one of their Founder's Day programs. And his topic was "Don't Integrate Ourselves Out of

Existence."

370.Niu: When was that?

371.Bryant: Back in the early 1950's as I recall. And I think about that so often now because I

see some things happening that we sort of integrated ourselves out of existence. Now the

other side of the coin is that we are beginning to get into the history books and people are

aware of the contributions the blacks have made to building of this country. So there are

some pluses and minuses. But we had many more black businesses. But I think the spirit is

beginning to come back that we having businesses in different areas than we had back before

integration.

372.Niu: ( )? What impression do you have ( )?

373.Bryant: Well, it is and I think about the moral side of how could a group of people sort of

step on our necks and say you're nothing really. We don't recognize you except when the

time comes to pay taxes or things like that. And to think back that if it had not been for

Artelia Bryant 47

Hampton Institute what would we have done for education. How far would we have had to

go. I was talking to a friend of mine telling her about your interview today. She's coming

over here shortly but we sort of adopted each other as sisters because I didn't have a sister.

She has two sisters. But she said yeah, I didn't get an education in the county that she lived

in in North Carolina. She had to go to another county. So I mean all of that when you think

about it you wonder how could a person justify mistreating another person because of the

color of his skin. And that has I think, having to sit on the back of a bus or the trolley car or

whatever, you wonder, you know, how could people do that. If you went to a store to buy a

hat you had to wear a little cap on before you could try that hat on. So those are the things I

guess wrapped into one, all of those incidents that's sort of, well it just left an impression.

I'm not bitter about it I'm just glad that things have changed during my lifetime.

374.Niu: Thank you very much.

375.Bryant: My pleasure. I hope I've helped.

376.Niu: When you were riding the trolley in Hampton did you have to ride on the back?

377.Bryant: Un-huh, yes. Seating was that way. You go to the back of the trolley. The front

and the back of the trolley was the same so if you're going to Newport News and all and you

got on here to the front then you go to the back. And same thing coming back. You go to the

back of the car. Bus, well we didn't have buses then but if you rode and I've ridden a bus

from Hampton to Wilson but I'd have to go by Richmond and then get a bus but it was the

same thing. You can't be overwhelmed.

Artelia Bryant 48

378.Niu: Not in the sense that ( )?

379.Bryant: Okay.