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    Boniface Ejiogu

    1

    1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

    2 FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORKESTHER KIOBEL, individually and on behalf : CIVIL

    3 of her late husband, DR BARINEM KIOBEL, : ACTION

    BISHOP AUGUSTINE NUMENE : NO. 02CV

    4 JOHN-MILLER, DORNUBARI ANSLEM : 7618

    JOHN-MILLER, CHARLES BARIDORN WIWA, :

    5 ISRAEL PYAKENE NWIDOR, :

    KENDRICKS DORLE NWIKPO, ANTHONY B, :

    6 KOTE-WITAH, VICTOR B WIFA, DUMLE J. :

    KUNENU, BENSON MAGNUS IKARI, :

    7 LEGBARA TONY IDIGMA, PIUS NWINEE, :

    SIMEON DEDDOA, KPOBARI TUSIMA individually :

    8 and on behalf of his late father :

    CLEMENT TUSIMA, and individually on behalf :

    9 Of all others similarly situated: :

    Plaintiffs :

    10 Vs. :

    ROYAL DUTCH PETROLEUM COMPANY; :

    11 SHELL TRANSPORT AND TRADING :

    COMPANY, p.l.c. :

    12 Defendants :

    :

    13 KEN WIWA, individually and as : 96 Civ.

    Executor of the Estate of his : 8386 (KMW)

    14 deceased father KEN SARO-WIWA, and :

    OWENS WIWA, and BLESSING KPUINEN :15 Individually and as the Administratix :

    Of the Estate of her husband, :

    16 JOHN KPUINEN, and JANE DOE :

    Plaintiffs :

    17 :

    vs. :

    18 ROYAL DUTCH PETROLEUM COMPANY and :

    SHELL TRANSPORT AND TRADING COMPANY :

    19 P.l.c. :

    Defendants :

    20 KEN WIWA, individually and as Executor : 01 Civ.

    Of the Estate of his deceased father : 1909 (KMW)21 KEN SARO-WIWA, AND OWENS WIWA :

    And BLESSING KPUINEN, individually :

    22 And as the Administratix of the :

    Estate of her husband, JOHN KPUINEN, :

    23 and JANE DOE, :

    vs. :

    24 BRIAN ANDERSON, :

    Defendant :

    25

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    2

    1

    2

    3

    DEPOSITION OF BONIFACE EJIOGU

    4

    5

    Saturday, 22nd May 2004

    6

    AT: 9.00 am

    7

    8

    9 Taken at:

    10

    Benin Marina Hotel

    11 Republique Du Benin

    Afrique De L'Ouest

    12 Boulevard De La Marina

    BP 1901, Cotonou

    13 Benin

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    Can you please state your name once more for the record?

    18 A. I am Mr Boniface Ejiogu. Good morning

    19 gentlemen and ladies.

    Money from Shell

    11

    21 Q. Did your commander ever, did you ever see

    22 your commander receive money from Shell personnel?

    23 MR MILLSON: Object to the form of the

    24 question.

    25 A. Yes.

    35

    1 MR D'AVINO: What was the first time you saw

    2 your commander receive money from Shell personnel?

    3 MR MILLSON: Object to the form of the

    4 question.

    5 A. That was two times received money from

    6 Upkpong.

    7 MR D'AVINO: Two times your commander

    8 received money from George Upkpong?

    9 A. Yes.

    10 MR MILLSON: Object to the form of the

    11 question.

    12 MR D'AVINO: What was the first time that

    13 your commander received money from George Upkpong?

    14 A. That was our first arrival by May, that first

    15 time we arrive at Bori, the first time we arrived, the

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    16 troops arrived in Bori, one evening time.

    17 Q. Please repeat that?

    18 A. Between 4.30 towards evening time we went to

    19 the Shell IA, at the main building, before we head to

    20 the main building my commander first branch Paul

    21 Okuntimo's, George Upkpong's office, first to see

    22 him.

    23 Q. You have to slow down. He went to George

    24 Upkpong's office?

    25 A. Yes, as he gets there he didn't waste up to

    36

    1 five minutes.

    2 Q. He didn't waste five minutes?

    3 A. He just come down, stepped down. His office

    4 is upstairs, he just came down with him.

    5 Q. With?

    6 A. With Upkpong, my commander with Upkpong, just

    7 walked. I was asking my commander will we bring

    8 vehicle around and he said no, no, we should wait until

    9 he calls upon us. He walk, it is a walking distance

    10 from the security office to the main building, it was

    11 walking distance. They walked and they walked in and

    12 then both of them came back to the security and

    13 Upkpong's office and climbed up. As they climb up,

    14 they spend up to 30 minutes. He come down again and

    15 get inside the vehicle and ask us to move down to the

    16 main building. When we get to the main building he

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    17 climb upstairs. We wait at the reception centre.

    18 Then he climbed up.

    19 MR MILLSON: Can you read that answer back

    20 for me, please.

    21 (The question and answer was read back by the Court

    22 Reporter).

    23 MR D'AVINO: To clarify the record what

    24 happened after you walked with your commander and

    25 George Upkpong from the security office to the main.

    37

    1 MR MILLSON: Object to the form of the

    2 question.

    3 MR D'AVINO: What happened after you got to

    4 the -- what happened after you got to the main building

    5 that day?

    6 A. As we get to the main building my commander

    7 climb upstairs with George Upkpong, they wasted a lot

    8 of time, say about 45 minutes to 60 minutes. He call

    9 upon us. We should come upstairs but the driver, I

    10 should go and call the driver. All of us we should

    11 come together. Both of us left for upstairs.

    12 MR DI CAPRIO: May I ask that the cell phone

    13 be turned off or put on silent, Mr Millson.

    14 MR D'AVINO: Please. How many of you were

    15 there?

    16 A. Four of us.

    17 Q. Who were the four?

    18 A. Aba and Wylie and I, Boniface, and the driver

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    19 Obe. The driver is an Igbo man, sergeant Mobile

    20 Police.

    21 Q. Did your commander call for all of you to

    22 come upstairs?

    23 A. All of us to come upstairs.

    24 Q. Did you go upstairs?

    25 A. Yes, our commander call us we have to answer

    38

    1 him.

    2 Q. What happened?

    3 A. When we get to that place they open a door

    4 and asked us to go in both of us. They said we should

    5 take all these bags down to the vehicle, Ghana Must Go

    6 bags loaded with something, I don't know the stuff

    7 there. I don't know what is there, he asked us to

    8 move it down to the vehicle.

    9 Q. Yes?

    10 A. He said: Boniface, make sure you are behind

    11 other soldiers. I said yes, sir. I was there when

    12 other soldiers are carrying the Ghana Must Go bags.

    13 One of them carries, can't be able to lift it up. He

    14 bounced it on the ground, the thing opened. I saw

    15 that was money in bundles, 20 Naira nomination. He

    16 said, wow, this is money. I say, yes man, it is

    17 money. He chat to me. I said let me help you,

    18 I have to help him to lift the bag, put it on his

    19 head. Then I jacked my own, I lifted my own and then

    20 we move down to the vehicle. I followed them

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    21 behind. The driver opened the boot, we loaded it

    22 in. The jeep boot didn't contain the seven, about two

    23 went to the seat where my commander sits. So we put

    24 one in the right, the other seat. Then he came down,

    25 we moved.

    39

    1 Q. Where did you move to?

    2 A. Down to Bori Camp headquarters, Port

    3 Harcourt.

    4 Q. And did you unload the Ghana Must Go bags?

    5 A. Off loaded the Ghana Must Go bags at my

    6 commander's office, at my Garrison commander's office.

    7 Q. Where was that?

    8 A. Bori Camp town.

    9 Q. Bori Camp town?

    10 A. Bori Camp, our headquarters.

    11 Q. What did you do then?

    12 A. Nothing, he asked us to wait outside, about

    13 20 minutes, 25 minutes we went on break, since we are

    14 in headquarters we have to go in for water, for

    15 anything to eat, because we have to eat so we can be,

    16 because he can call upon us any time. But we take

    17 excuse from the sergeant, driver to go and eat. After

    18 we eat we come back, about 20 minutes. We saw other

    19 officers, lieutenant captain going into his office.

    20 Q. Going into whose office?

    21 A. My commander's office, maybe they are having

    22 a meeting I do not know where why they are there for.

    23 Q. Who were these other officers, do you

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    24 remember?

    25 A. It is a long time, Captain Ademona he is

    40

    1 Yuraba man, Y-U-R-A-B-A and the other one is Lieutenant

    2 Eliu and the other one is lieutenant, that one is

    3 lieutenant, I can't remember his name, Tunde Odena, he

    4 is an officer, not from our Brigade. He the officer

    5 came from 20 Battalion Warri, Tunde is a Yuraba man

    6 too.

    7 Q. Do you recall what happened after they went

    8 into your commander's office that day?

    9 A. Yes, I heard a gunshot.

    10 Q. You heard a gunshot?

    11 A. Yes.

    12 Q. Did you hear anything before the gunshot?

    13 A. Before the gunshot I heard: "Take it, take

    14 it". Somebody said: "No, that is not what we

    15 discussed, my commander sir. That is military term,

    16 that is not what we discuss. Please my commander, sir.

    17 Q. Who was saying "take it", did you recognise

    18 the voice?

    19 A. The voice is my commander's invoice, I know

    20 my commander's voice, I always know my commander's

    21 voice it is so high.

    22 Q. Did you hear anything else before you heard

    23 the shot?

    24 A. I heard "take it, take it" he said "no, we

    25 are not taking it. This is not what we discussed. We

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    41

    1 discussed you are going to give us 1 million." He said

    2 "no, that is not what I discussed with you". I heard

    3 a gunshot and we who are the orderlies and other

    4 soldiers, we rushed the door and get inside. As we get

    5 inside the office the commander said: "Who asked you

    6 to come in?" We said: "Sorry, sir we heard a gunshot,

    7 maybe somebody is dead". He said: "Get out, I don't

    8 need you here." We saw a lot of money around the

    9 office arranged like this.

    10 Q. Is it stacked in piles?

    11 A. Yes, all --

    12 MR MILLSON: Object to the form of the

    13 question.

    14 A. All in bundle with rope, white rope, white

    15 rope, twine rope. That is all, we have to obey our

    16 commander and we have to go out because they are all

    17 top officers and we have to receive our command from

    18 them. That is so.

    19 MR D'AVINO: Was there any resulting

    20 investigation into this gunshot in this matter?

    21 A. Yes, I remember after a few weeks later we

    22 are called to SIB. We are called by the SIB.

    23 Q. Who was called by the SIB?

    24 A. We, the orderlies, were called and the driver

    25 to the SIB unit asking about the incident that happened

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    42

    1 the day the officers were with my Commander. We

    2 explained what we heard and what we saw. That is

    3 all. They asked us to go back to our various work.

    4 After that I didn't know because it is officers to

    5 officers. You know yourself.

    6 Q. Was that the first time you saw Shell

    7 personnel give money to your commander?

    8 MR MILLSON: Object to the form of the

    9 question.

    10 A. No, the second time was.

    11 Q. What was the second time?

    12 A. The second time was in Shell RA residential

    13 area at Rumukrish.

    14 Q. Where did you go in the Shell residential

    15 area?

    16 A. George Upkpong's house.

    17 Q. George Upkpong's house?

    18 A. Yes.

    19 Q. Do you recall approximately the date that you

    20 went?

    21 A. No no, the operation is going on, I can't,

    22 I didn't know. I can't know, I can't remember the

    23 date.

    24 Q. Explain to us what the circumstances were?

    25 A. Yes, that day it was only my commander and me

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    43

    1 and the driver when they first went there. It was

    2 very late in the night, very late in the night, because

    3 we have to go back to Bori and as we get there he

    4 didn't waste time. We just stopped vehicle, Upkpong

    5 rush out and welcome him, have handshake with him. He

    6 said: Since I have been calling there is a lot of work

    7 in Bori and fighting we wouldn't like to go back to

    8 Bori now, he would like to go back to his house. He

    9 asked him now: How do you do with your boys? Upkpong

    10 was asking my commander if you are going back to Bori

    11 Camp you are resident, he has residence in Bori Camp,

    12 guest house in Bori town, he said if you are going back

    13 to Bori town how do you do with your boys to drive them

    14 over. He said: Come on I know you can assist me any

    15 vehicle to drop them in Bori so they can have their

    16 dinner. He said: No problem, I will do that. They

    17 go in. After about just 50 minutes to 60 minutes I

    18 saw Ghana Must Go bags, four, they were bringing it out

    19 of Upkpong's house, the cook, cook and his driver and

    20 other men in his house, they were bringing the things.

    21 My commander shouted: Driver, open the boot. He only

    22 called on the driver, he didn't call on me. The

    23 driver opened the boot. Those four young men and one

    24 lady, three young men and one lady, four of them they

    25 now jack this inside. The lady cannot be able to jack

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    44

    1 it so the driver assisted the lady to put it in. Off

    2 we go.

    3 Q. How many bags?

    4 A. Just four bags.

    5 Q. And you left George Upkpong's house?

    6 A. We left George Upkpong's house. As we left

    7 George Upkpong's house my commander now get at the

    8 gates and then call Upkpong and they reverse back, said

    9 he remembered that he cannot be able to go with us to

    10 Bori that he shall assist us with vehicle. Upkpong

    11 answered him that the vehicle here is his own personal

    12 vehicle, that what is going to be is let him leave us

    13 in his house. He is going to call for a vehicle to

    14 take us down to Bori, we were in his house. He gave

    15 us mineral.

    16 Q. Water?

    17 A. Mineral, coke. We are sitting outside in

    18 the corridor where you have some flowers, we sit down,

    19 we are chatting. Up to 10 minutes vehicle come, Hilox,

    20 they will now jump in. They drop us at Bori town, my

    21 commander come and every morning from Bori town, from

    22 Bori town, every early morning, we all of us, including

    23 the driver, we all report at my commander's guest house

    24 at Bori.

    25 Q. The four bags that were loaded into your

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    45

    1 commander's vehicle at George Upkpong's house, what was

    2 in those bags?

    3 A. The driver told me it was money, because

    4 I didn't load it, I didn't touch it. He told me,

    5 called out with me in Igbo language because he speaks

    6 Igbo and I am an Igbo so we speak same language, that

    7 is ego, we call it money in Igboland.

    The Murder of the Ogoni Four

    6 Q. Do you recall the day that the chiefs were

    7 killed in Ogoni?

    8 A. Yes, I can remember the date.

    9 Q. What was the date?

    10 A. That was 21st May 1994, that was a market

    11 day, Saturday.

    12 Q. Where were you that day?

    13 A. We were in Bori town, village.

    14 Q. And can you recall what happened that

    15 morning?

    16 A. Yes, there was a very serious morning brief

    17 from our commander.

    18 Q. Morning brief?

    19 A. Yes, around 8 o'clock in the morning.

    20 Q. Who did he brief?

    21 A. He briefed the troops.

    22 Q. All of the troops?

    23 A. All the troops both officers and men.

    24 Q. Do you remember what he said to the troops

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    25 that day?

    60

    1 A. Yes, he said: Gentlemen, I want everybody to

    2 be present. Officers let your men prepare, by

    3 3 o'clock, 3.30 everybody should assemble at the

    4 field. We will be going to Giokoo, he said we are

    5 going to Giokoo, finished. He now asked his second in

    6 command, Domopo, and ASP Ada is commander for MOPOL.

    7 He asked him to close the parate.

    8 Q. What is that?

    9 A. Close the gathering.

    10 Q. The gathering?

    11 A. If your soldier is standing you don't move

    12 out unless the commander has left the field and the

    13 second in command now have to dismiss the soldiers.

    14 Q. What happened when you gathered at 3 o'clock

    15 or did you gather at 3 o'clock or 3.30?

    16 A. Three, before we arrive with our commander

    17 all the soldiers and Mobile Police, all joint patrol,

    18 they are waiting for our commander to come. So that

    19 very day my commander came and asked all soldiers to

    20 get into the vehicle because we have stand by vehicles

    21 there; 911 army vehicle, two trucks move with one

    22 Hilox, white Hilox and my commander's jeeps. We move

    23 down to Giokoo. As we are getting to Giokoo before

    24 the market my commander now deployed one truck. After

    25 the truck we now move ahead, get into the market

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    61

    1 square. The Hilox drops some soldiers there and went

    2 back.

    3 Q. Was that Hilox --

    4 A. That is white Hilox.

    5 Q. Was that a military vehicle?

    6 A. No, it is not a military vehicle, it is a

    7 Shell vehicle, Shell vehicle, Hilox.

    8 Q. What was the name of that market, do you

    9 know?

    10 A. Pardon?

    11 Q. Do you know the name of the market in Giokoo?

    12 A. It is a long time, I can't remember. It is

    13 not my village, I can't pronounce it, I can't. It is

    14 market village square, market village square. Then we

    15 move ahead. We drop the second 911 vehicle at the

    16 market square, then my commander had to reverse

    17 immediately, the driver reversed the vehicle.

    18 Q. Reversed the vehicle?

    19 A. Yes, my commander now called the officers,

    20 the ones we drop at the market square, called the

    21 officers in charge. I remember the officer there, the

    22 officer there is Captain Babale Dada is the MOPOL

    23 commander, and tell them all of them move far from the

    24 vehicle. We didn't hear what he discussed, about six

    25 minutes or seven minutes they all departed from the

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    62

    1 discussion. My commander came and I open the door for

    2 him. He entered then close the door and saluted as we

    3 do in the army. I have to give him the last respect.

    4 Q. Did you get in the vehicle with him?

    5 A. Yes, I was with him, I am always with him.

    6 Q. Then what happened?

    7 A. We left.

    8 Q. You left Giokoo?

    9 A. Yes.

    10 Q. Who left?

    11 A. My commander.

    12 Q. Just your vehicle?

    13 A. Just our vehicle, black jeep, we left.

    14 Q. Did all the other troops stay?

    15 A. All of them stayed. Then we moved. As we

    16 get to the first vehicle that we deployed he called the

    17 officer. He went down. He called the officer and he

    18 talked with him. I didn't hear what they said. I

    19 didn't hear what they said. So he get inside the

    20 vehicle and off we go. As we are going --

    21 Q. Where were you going to?

    22 A. Bori town, Bori town where we use our

    23 headquarters of our operation.

    24 Q. Okay?

    25 A. As we are headed to Bori town, about 30

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    63

    1 minutes, 30 to 40 minutes we heard a radio message from

    2 Captain Dada, ASP Dada. As he received the call he

    3 said; "Dada where are you now". He said: "I am at

    4 the market square, the boys have now taken over the

    5 market square. They have gone inside the villages and

    6 everything." He said: "Okay". All I heard from him

    7 before he dropped the phone was: "Try as I told you,

    8 waste them. I mean waste them."

    9 Q. You are saying waste them?

    10 A. Waste them, waste them means in the army you

    11 waste them is when you are shooting rapidly.

    12 Q. Who was he wasting, who do you think he was

    13 referring to?

    14 A. I don't know.

    15 MR MILLSON: Object to the form of the

    16 question.

    17 MR D'AVINO: He just said waste them?

    18 A. He said waste them. Then he hang the radio.

    19 Q. What happened next?

    20 A. We move to Bori town.

    21 Q. Did you go back to Giokoo that day?

    22 A. No no, we didn't go back to Giokoo. As we

    23 get to our headquarters we saw Prince, Prince stopped

    24 my commander and said: Sir, what is happening in

    25 Giokoo. He said: That is not your business. He said

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    64

    1 what I heard on the radio message in the offers is too

    2 bad. He said: Maybe the boys started getting

    3 crazy. That is all.

    4 Q. When he said the boys are getting crazy who

    5 did you think, who did you understand he meant by the

    6 boys?

    7 MR MILLSON: Object to the form of the

    8 question?

    9 A. Come again please?

    10 MR D'AVINO: Who was your commander

    11 referring to when he said the boys might be getting

    12 crazy?

    13 A. He is referring to Okuntimo, Prince is

    14 discussing with Okuntimo.

    15 Q. Who said the boys might be getting crazy?

    16 A. My commander.

    17 Q. Who was the boys that he was talking about?

    18 A. Those are the soldiers in Giokoo and

    19 officers.

    20 Q. Did you go back to Giokoo the next day?

    21 A. The next day in the afternoon we went back to

    22 Giokoo. As we get to Giokoo there is a lot of burnt

    23 houses and we met one Beetle vehicle. Beetle is a

    24 car, burnt down. He looked inside and he saw orange

    25 cap and he call an officer. He call Captain Babale.

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    65

    1 He called Captain Babale. He said: Did you remove

    2 the dead bodies? He said: Yes, sir. So he said:

    3 Okay, that is good. We moved straight to the market

    4 square. As we get to the market square in the village

    5 a lot of people died. There is a lot of people,

    6 civilians died. Some, oh, man the pregnant woman I

    7 saw there was bleeding seriously. There is a lot of

    8 people died and some injured. Some died flat. Some

    9 was injured with bullets, just like that. The market

    10 square was the place that captain ASP Dada is in

    11 charge. Then it is not quite a long time, he didn't

    12 even talk with them. He just get inside. Then off

    13 we drive.

    14 Q. Where did you go?

    15 A. We now come back to Bori, our headquarters in

    16 Bori village. He get inside his office. Only him,

    17 he get inside the office. That is all. We stayed

    18 outside.

    Payments from Shell

    4 MR DI CAPRIO: Let me rephrase the question,

    5 I will -- let me withdraw that. Do you recall telling

    6 Mr D'Avino that you went to the Shell Industrial Area

    7 on one occasion with Major Okuntimo and saw some Ghana

    8 Must Go bags?

    9 MR MILLSON: Object to the form of the

    10 question.

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    11 A. Yes.

    12 Q. Do you recall that testimony?

    13 A. Yes.

    14 Q. I want to draw your attention to that

    15 incident?

    16 A. Yes.

    17 Q. I am going to ask you some questions about

    18 what happened that day, okay?

    19 A. Yes.

    20 Q. Now you arrived there with Major Okuntimo; is

    21 that correct?

    22 MR MILLSON: Object to the form of the

    23 question.

    24 A. And the driver and two others.

    25 MR MILLSON: Can we have some non leading

    97

    1 questions.

    2 MR DI CAPRIO: We can when I get beyond the

    3 preliminaries.

    4 MR MILLSON: If you do it will be good.

    5 MR DI CAPRIO: We will get to some non

    6 leading questions. After you arrived did you see

    7 Major Okuntimo speak to anybody?

    8 A. Yes, Major Okuntimo speak with George Upkpong

    9 before they walk down to the building and went in.

    10 Q. What happened after that?

    11 A. When we walk down to the building.

    12 MR MILLSON: Can I get which building?

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    13 A. He came back to the office.

    14 MR DI CAPRIO: Let me take you back for a

    15 moment, sir. You said that -- where did you first go

    16 to when you went to the Shell Industrial Area that day?

    17 A. On that day we arrive in George Upkpong's

    18 security head office, then my commander get up and

    19 discuss with Upkpong. Later he came down with George

    20 Upkpong, but they walk down to the main building.

    21 Q. Now did you walk with them or did you stay in

    22 the area?

    23 A. He asked me to stay put.

    24 Q. Okay. Did you see where they went?

    25 A. Pardon please?

    98

    1 Q. Did you see where Major Okuntimo and

    2 Mr Upkpong went?

    3 A. Yes, they are going straight, walking

    4 straight to the main building because the main building

    5 in Shell belong the Shell and the security head office

    6 they are all opposite, directly opposite, it is walking

    7 distance.

    8 Q. Did they come back?

    9 A. Yes, they came back.

    10 Q. After they came back, that is Major Okuntimo

    11 and Mr Upkpong, what did you see?

    12 A. Yes, with George Upkpong then both of us and

    13 the vehicle and the driver, we now drive down. This

    14 time we now drive down to the main building.

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    15 Q. You said this time we now drive down, who was

    16 present, who was with you?

    17 A. Upkpong, the driver, another two colleagues,

    18 escort team, and Upkpong and Major Okuntimo, both of us

    19 went to the building.

    20 Q. When you said another two colleagues were

    21 present who were the colleagues?

    22 A. Come again?

    23 (The answer was read back by the court Reporter)

    24 Q. Would you identify who the people you

    25 referred to as colleagues?

    99

    1 A. I identified them.

    2 Q. Who are they?

    3 A. Aba and Wale.

    4 Q. When you got to that building was that the

    5 main building?

    6 A. That is the main building, Shell building.

    7 Q. When you got to the main building what

    8 happened?

    9 A. We all walked to the main building, when we

    10 get there they asked us to wait at the reception

    11 centre.

    12 Q. Who asked you?

    13 A. My commander.

    14 Q. Major Okuntimo?

    15 MR MILLSON: Excuse me, can you just read

    16 back the prior answer where he said they all walked to

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    17 the main building?

    18 (The answer was read back by the Court Reporter).

    19 MR DI CAPRIO: What happened after that --

    20 let me withdraw that question. Did you move the

    21 vehicle at any point during that?

    22 A. Yes, I said it here, I said we now drive down

    23 with the vehicle.

    24 Q. Did you drive or did you walk?

    25 A. We drived, the driver, my colleagues and

    100

    1 I and Okuntimo enter the vehicle with Upkpong this

    2 time. With Upkpong, Upkpong was sitting with my

    3 commander in the back. Now we all move down to the

    4 main building. When we get there my commander now ask

    5 us, Major Paul Okuntimo asked us to wait at the

    6 reception centre and him and Upkpong now went upstairs.

    7 MR DI CAPRIO: How long -- let me withdraw

    8 that. Would you describe what you observed next,

    9 please?

    10 A. Yes, about 45 minutes my commander call us,

    11 ask us to come upstairs and when we get upstairs they

    12 open a door, it is an office. When we go in.

    13 Q. Who was with you when you went in, you said

    14 when we went in, who was with you?

    15 A. Aba, Wale me and the driver.

    16 Q. What did you observe next?

    17 A. We get inside the office and my commander

    18 points out Ghana Must Go bags, about seven Ghana Must

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    19 Go bags.

    20 Q. Seven Ghana Must Go bags?

    21 A. Seven Ghana Must Go bags.

    22 Q. Again you said your commander, was this Major

    23 Okuntimo?

    24 A. Yes.

    25 Q. Was Mr Upkpong in the room?

    101

    1 A. Yes, he was in the room and one white man and

    2 black man. The white man I saw there, big white man

    3 and I can remember, I know the district manager, and

    4 James Udofia was there too inside the room.

    5 Q. Mr Udofia was there?

    6 A. In the room before we get in.

    7 Q. How do you know it was James Udofia, James

    8 Udofia, how do you know?

    9 A. I know him, the District Manager or

    10 Divisional Manager.

    11 Q. What did you do next?

    12 A. We now lifted the money and my commander

    13 said; Bonny, remember to be behind the soldier, let

    14 them carry the money to the boot.

    15 Q. Did he say carry the money to the boot?

    16 A. Yes.

    17 Q. Did he use those words?

    18 A. He used those words, he said: Carry this

    19 money to the boot.

    20 Q. Are you sure he used the word "money"?

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    21 A. Yes, he used money.

    22 Q. Would you describe how large the bags were

    23 please that you carried?

    24 A. Ghana Must Go bags, the biggest one is very

    25 big, the giant one, it is not here I can't show you.

    102

    1 MR MILLSON: Is it a yard high.

    2 MR DI CAPRIO: I will ask the questions,

    3 please. Were they all the same size?

    4 A. Yes, all the same size, the biggest ones.

    5 Q. Using your hands, about how wide were the

    6 Ghana Must Go bags?

    7 A. It is like this.

    8 Q. How deep were they, would you put your hand

    9 on the table. How high were they?

    10 A. Okay.

    11 Q. On the side, how deep were they. Were they

    12 all the same colour?

    13 A. No, it is mixed. Some red colour, some

    14 white colour, checked colour with blue and white, the

    15 other one was red and white, Ghana Must Go bags.

    16 Q. Did you observe anything after that?

    17 A. When we lifted the money, all of them lifted

    18 the money, one of us lifted so one can't be able to

    19 lift his own because it busted, it busted on the

    20 grounds the zip caught. He shouted by my side, he

    21 said, man, this is money.

    22 Q. Did you see inside of the bag?

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    23 A. Yes, when the bag was so heavy and busted in

    24 the ground the middle of the zip teared because there

    25 was a load of money, I mean, I saw the money in bundle,

    103

    1 20 Naira nomination.

    2 Q. Would you describe the money that you saw in

    3 the bag, how many bundles of money did you see?

    4 A. It is big, I didn't count it. I saw the bag

    5 bounced on the ground and I saw the money bundles and

    6 they are all money.

    7 Q. Where were Mr Upkpong and Okuntimo at this

    8 time when the bag opened?

    9 A. They were right in the office when we are

    10 lifting. We are lifting this money from the office,

    11 they are right inside the office.

    12 Q. So the bag opened in the office?

    13 A. Yes, opened in their presence.

    14 Q. What happened next?

    15 A. We moved down the money. I lifted, I helped

    16 my colleague. I lifted the money to him then he

    17 carried it and I jacked my own and we move to the

    18 vehicle. Before we get there the driver had already

    19 opened the boot and put their own and then we wait for

    20 our commander. We loaded the money.

    21 Q. Did you leave the Industrial Area that day?

    22 A. Immediately with our commander.

    23 Q. Was that Major Okuntimo?

    24 A. Major Okuntimo direct to the Bori Camp town.

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    25 Q. Who else left with you?

    104

    1 A. The driver, Wale and Aba and me.

    2 Q. Now you describe an incident that took place

    3 I think you said it took place in Bori village later

    4 that day when you brought them, the Ghana Must Go bags

    5 out from the Industrial Area, do you remember that?

    6 MR MILLSON: Object to the form of the

    7 question.

    8 A. Where, in Bori?

    9 MR DI CAPRIO: Where did you go after you

    10 collected the Ghana Must Go bags that day?

    11 A. We moved down to Bori Camp.

    12 Q. Was that Bori Camp in the town of Port

    13 Harcourt?

    14 A. Yes, Okuntimo's office.

    15 Q. In Port Harcourt?

    16 A. In Garrison headquarters.

    17 Q. In Port Harcourt?

    18 A. Yes.

    19 Q. You testified that on one occasion you went

    20 to Mr Upkpong's house, you were with your commander and

    21 Mr Upkpong came out and later during the course of that

    22 have there were four Ghana Must Go bags?

    23 MR MILLSON: Objection to the form of the

    24 question.

    25 MR DI CAPRIO: Do you remember that

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    105

    1 testimony?

    2 A. Yes, I remember. When he came out he have a

    3 handshake with my commander.

    4 Q. When you say he had a handshake who are you

    5 referring to?

    6 A. George Upkpong with my commander.

    7 Q. Your commander was Major Paul Okuntimo; is

    8 that correct?

    9 A. Yes.

    10 Q. You testified about an occasion when there

    11 was an envelope -- let me withdraw that. You

    12 testified on one occasion a Shell helicopter brought

    13 money in an envelope, I think you said the pilot was a

    14 white pilot, do you remember testifying to that earlier

    15 this morning?

    16 MR MILLSON: Objection to the form of the

    17 question?

    18 A. Yes, I did.

    19 MR DI CAPRIO: My question is, you said that

    20 your commander was there, was your commander Major

    21 Okuntimo?

    22 A. Yes.

    23 Q. Is that the person that you are referring to?

    24 A. Yes.

    25 Q. Thank you. You referred to a Shell farm in

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    106

    1 Bori during your testimony, do you remember that

    2 testimony?

    Murder of Ogoni 4

    2 Q. You testified to an occasion that took place

    3 on May 21st 1994, to an event that took place on May

    4 21st 1994 in the village of Joucu, do you recall that

    5 testimony?

    6 A. Yes, I recall.

    7 Q. Do you recall testimony relating to certain

    8 things Major Okuntimo said about what took place on

    9 that day?

    10 MR MILLSON: Object to the form of the

    11 question.

    12 MR DI CAPRIO: I will rephrase the

    13 question. Do you recall you testified that Colonel

    14 Okuntimo said words to the effect that maybe the boys

    15 were getting crazy?

    16 A. Yes, that was when he was chatting with

    17 Prince.

    18 Q. Who did you believe Major Okuntimo was

    19 referring to on that day?

    20 A. Whom?

    21 MR MILLSON: Object to the form of the

    22 question.

    23 MR DI CAPRIO: When you heard Major Okuntimo

    24 say the boys were getting crazy?

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    25 A. Yes.

    118

    1 Q. Did you form any opinion about who you

    2 thought he was referring to?

    3 A. He was referring to our boys in Giokoo.

    4 Q. When you say our boys, who are you referring

    5 to?

    6 A. Getting crazy.

    7 Q. Which boys are you referring to?

    8 A. Our soldiers in Giokoo.

    9 Q. Did Major Okuntimo have any killing tactics

    10 that you observed?

    11 A. Yes, of course.

    12 Q. Would you describe them, please?

    13 A. The killing tactics is when we go on a patrol

    14 to the check points. He now call the officers and

    15 have some brief with them, and then collect rifles from

    16 the soldiers. In any check point he goes he will

    17 collect one rifle, any check point he goes he collect

    18 one rifle, and later in the day he will go into the

    19 village with the other officers and he will make a

    20 special announcement: Soldiers, to the soldiers of

    21 this community took guns from our community on road

    22 check points. Please chiefs, ask your boys to provide

    23 the rifle otherwise anything you see you take it.

    Payments from Shell

    22 MR MILLSON: You brought the seven bags of

    23 Ghana Must Go?

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    24 A. Okuntimo, the driver, Aba, Wale and me, we

    25 brought the money from Shell to Okuntimo's office.

    1 Q. In April 1994?

    2 A. No.

    3 Q. When?

    4 A. That was the second week of May that money

    5 was given.

    6 Q. The second week of May, do you remember which

    7 day?

    8 A. I can't remember the date.

    9 Q. Do you remember what day of the week it was?

    10 A. I can't remember, it is a long time. It is

    11 a long time.

    12 Q. Now when was the investigation done on the

    13 delivery of the money that you brought in the second

    14 week of May?

    135

    1 Q. So in the second week of May 1994 you bring

    2 seven Ghana Must Go bags from Shell, correct?

    3 A. Yes.

    4 Q. And where do you put them?

    5 A. In Okuntimo's office.

    6 Q. In Okuntimo's office. Then you sit outside

    7 the office or where do you go?

    8 A. Pardon?

    9 Q. You bring, who carries the bags into the

    10 office?

    11 A. The driver or the escort, all of us, we carry

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    12 it to the office at army camp headquarters.

    13 Q. How many carry it to the office?

    14 A. Bag or papers?

    15 Q. The bags how many people, there are seven

    16 bags?

    17 A. Seven bags all of us, the soldiers we

    18 off-loaded it in Paul Okuntimo's office at Garrison

    19 headquarters.

    5 Q. How many trips did you make to carry bags?

    6 A. It is two trips now, the first trip and then

    7 we carry the remaining one.

    8 Q. You took two?

    9 A. It is not possible for one person to carry

    10 two.

    11 Q. You can only carry one at that time?

    12 A. It is not possible, only one.

    13 Q. It is very heavy?

    14 A. Very heavy.

    15 Q. So you make two trips carrying bags?

    16 A. Yes.

    17 Q. And the driver makes how many trips?

    18 A. The driver make one trip.

    19 Q. With just a broken bag?

    20 A. Yes.

    21 Q. Who carries the other four?

    22 A. The other people now carry the other four.

    23 Q. So you get other people to help you help you

    24 carry, it's not just the three of you?

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    25 A. Other soldiers on standing by seeing us

    138

    1 working cooperate, we will cooperate.

    . So you arranged for the seven Ghana Must Go bags to be put in hisoffice, correct?

    12 A. I am there as his escort, as you know.

    13 Q. So you make sure the seven bags -- right

    14 there, you make sure no money is left in the car?

    15 A. No, and Okuntimo is there in the office too.

    16 Q. And the door shuts?

    17 A. Yes.

    18 Q. You are standing outside?

    19 A. Yes, all of us.

    20 Q. Now what happens next?

    21 A. What happened next is after fifteen minutes

    22 officers start coming in, maybe he called them on the

    23 radio, I don't know I am not inside the office. Maybe

    24 owe called some officers through the telephone but I

    25 saw officers going in.

    144

    1 Q. How many officers?

    2 A. I saw four of them.

    3 Q. Which ones?

    4 A. Captain Elu is there.

    5 Q. Who else?

    6 A. Lieutenant Murray.

    7 Q. Who else?

    8 A. And Captain Tunde Odina from 20 Battalion.

    9 Q. Who else?

    10 A. I can't remember the name of the other person

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    11 now, I can't remember.

    12 Q. And Major Okuntimo is inside, right?

    13 A. Lieutenant Mohammed.

    14 Q. And anyone else?

    15 A. No.

    16 Q. And Major Okuntimo's inside already, correct?

    17 A. He is already inside.

    18 Q. Was anyone else already inside when you got

    19 there?

    20 A. No, only Okuntimo.

    21 Q. What happens next?

    22 A. We are outside waiting, we don't go in except

    23 he call us.

    24 Q. Did the door open at some stage?

    25 A. No, it is locked, always locked.

    145

    1 Q. Did someone fire a shot?

    2 A. Yes.

    3 Q. So, you are sitting outside and you suddenly

    4 hear a shot fired?

    5 A. As I am a soldier when I am staying outside,

    6 just like here, if you heard a gunshot behind you or

    7 out there you must know the feeling, and you must hear

    8 it and know where it is coming from.

    9 Q. You were outside and there is suddenly a

    10 gunshot in Major Okuntimo's office, correct?

    11 A. Yes.

    12 Q. What did you do next?

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    13 A. Then we escorts have to rush in.

    14 Q. You rushed in?

    15 A. He said: Why are you here? We said: Sorry

    16 we heard gunshots and we thoughts someone is dead. He

    17 said: Get outside, I don't need you, we have to say:

    18 Yes, sir.

    19 Q. And you did that?

    20 A. Yes.

    21 Q. And you then shut the door?

    22 A. We shut the door immediately and he lock it

    23 now with key.

    24 Q. He locked it with the key?

    25 A. Yes.

    146

    1 Q. Did you ever hear anyone saying anything

    2 inside there --

    3 A. I heard I heard somebody saying, I heard a

    4 voice and that is my Commander voice, I know his voice

    5 very well. He said: Take it, take it.

    6 Q. What was he referring to?

    7 A. I don't know, I am not inside. If I hear

    8 take it, it may be documents, it may be money, it may

    9 be bribe anything: Take it, take it.

    10 Q. Did anyone else say anything that you heard

    11 in this room where they have the seven bags?

    12 A. Yes.

    13 Q. What?

    14 A. Somebody said: That is not what we agreed,

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    15 we agreed one one million.

    16 Q. You agreed?

    17 A. We agreed one one million.

    18 Q. About one one million?

    19 A. I don't know whose voice, that is the voice.

    20 Q. 11 million?

    21 A. I said 1 million.

    22 Q. We agreed one or 11?

    23 A. 1 million.

    24 Q. Did you say one one million?

    25 A. I said 1 million.

    147

    1 Q. So someone said: We agreed 1 million and he

    2 was referring to Naira?

    3 A. That was the voice, he was referring to

    4 Naira.

    5 Q. Was that anyone, was that Major Okuntimo's

    6 voice?

    7 A. The voice I heard the first time?

    8 Q. No, saying: We agreed 1 million?

    9 A. No, it is junior officer to Okuntimo.

    10 Q. Which one was it?

    11 A. I don't know.

    12 Q. So he was saying, no, we agreed 1 million?

    13 A. Somebody said, one of the officers said: We

    14 agreed 1 million. The first time I said I heard my

    15 commanders voice, I recognised it, he said: Take it,

    16 take it.

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    4 MR MILLSON: Now, did he ever tell you that

    5 there was 56 million Naira in those bags?

    6 MR D'AVINO: Objection?

    7 A. No, I didn't go to ask or to know, find out

    8 because I am not counting money. I didn't know how

    9 much was contained there. If he tells me about it

    10 I have forgotten, this thing took long, this thing

    11 didn't happened yesterday, it is about 10 years plus.

    Rape and Torture

    And Prince Osaror came to interrogate

    24 you about whether Major Okuntimo had raped people?

    25 A. Yes.

    114

    1 Q. What did you say tell him?

    2 A. I said, yes, of course he brings guests here

    3 and use them and ask them to go.

    4 Q. And you told him that you had stood guard

    5 while Major Okuntimo had raped people?

    6 A. Yes.

    7 Q. How many times had you stood guard while

    8 Major Okuntimo raped people?

    9 A. I witnessed that twice.

    10 Q. Did you ever rape anyone?

    11 A. No.

    12 Q. Did Major Okuntimo ever order you to rape

    13 anyone?

    14 A. No.

    15 Q. Did you observe Major Okuntimo torturing

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    16 people?

    17 A. Yes.

    18 Q. Did you ever torture anyone?

    19 A. No.

    20 Q. Did Major Okuntimo ever order you to torture

    21 anyone?

    22 A. No, because I am not in the discipline

    23 section. We have discipline section.

    24 Q. You have a discipline?

    25 A. Military Police do that.

    Did the Army,

    11 did the Internal Security Task Force ever torture

    12 people without direction from Major Okuntimo?

    13 MR DI CAPRIO: Objection.

    14 A. Yes.

    15 MR MILLSON: They sometimes tortured people

    16 without him telling them to do that?

    17 A. Because anyone that feels stubborn the

    18 soldiers will handle them and when they arrest one and

    19 bring them to Okuntimo, if there is any reporter, then

    20 the soldier heard the civilian misbehave, maybe the

    21 civilian got angry to maybe wound the soldier and maybe

    22 the soldier may hit on board on him or hit him on the

    23 head or waist, when we he come to give a report to the

    24 sergeant or staff sergeant he will make his report that

    25 this civilian is a very bad civilian. He is stubborn,

    116

    1 this is what he did and everything. When the report

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    2 gets to Major Paul Okuntimo, Major Okuntimo will like

    3 to see the civilian. And when he sees the civilian he

    4 will now send him for torture in the room.

    5 Q. So are saying Major Okuntimo often ordered

    6 the Army to torture civilians, correct?

    7 A. Repeat.

    8 Q. Did Major Okuntimo often tell the Army to

    9 torture civilians?

    10 A. Yes.

    11 Q. Were you present when he did that?

    12 A. Yes, as his orderly I was present.

    13 Q. But your job was to be with Major Okuntimo

    14 when you were doing escort duty right?

    15 A. Yes.

    16 Q. But the orderly always waits outside the

    17 room, correct?

    18 A. Sometimes I wait outside, sometimes I will go

    19 in and when they are torturing I will see because it is

    20 an open place.

    21 Q. But in general when Major Okuntimo was in a

    22 room you would sit outside, correct?

    23 MR DI CAPRIO: Objection.

    24 MR MILLSON: In general when Major Okuntimo

    25 was in a room working you would sit outside the room?

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    117

    1 A. Yes, I would sit outside the room because

    2 I am standby, I would be standby unless he calls me.

    3 If he didn't call me I wouldn't go into his office.

    4 Q. He might call you to say take something

    5 somewhere?

    6 A. Or call somebody for me or call the driver

    7 for me, I want to send him a message.

    8 Q. You were essentially a messenger acting for

    9 Major Okuntimo?

    10 A. Yes, since we are working with Okuntimo we

    11 are on operational ground as escort steam.

    Did you ever witness any

    54

    1 torture at the Afam warehouse?

    2 MR MILLSON: Object to the form of the

    3 question?

    4 A. Yes.

    5 MR D'AVINO: Tell us what you witnessed?

    6 A. Pulling civilians, the Ogonis, all their men,

    7 pulling them off. All of them always pull off their

    8 trousers and their shirts, soldiers pull all their

    9 shirts and trousers. There were men with underwear and

    10 they would ask all of them to face the ground. They

    11 were handcuffed like this, handcuffed them like this.

    12 There is not enough handcuffs so our soldiers use this

    13 barbed wire, cut barbed wire with nails and handcuff

    14 them, tie them behind. And if struggle to make sure

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    15 you remove your hand this thing, the nails would chook

    16 you. All of them face the ground. Others receive

    17 koboke, mostly the chiefs they give them koboke. They

    18 will go to Okuntimo's office, community chiefs. They

    19 don't pull them, they don't pull their clothes, the

    20 chiefs. After interrogation and a little bit of

    21 koboke they now move to Okuntimo's office. From there

    22 after discussion Okuntimo ask them to go.

    23 MR D'AVINO: Did you witness any other type

    24 of torture?

    25 A. Yes, there was giant difficult youth, like

    55

    1 one boy gave us very difficult tough time. We call

    2 him Kootie, he is dead now. He is a very tough man.

    3 If you put him in handcuff it would be like this, has

    4 big power to cut off. So what we did was to give him

    5 an open chicken locked up, we call it back locked up.

    6 When you get a big stick caught in a bush you put it at

    7 the back, then he will cross his hand, he cross his

    8 hand this way, then he will be tied up there. His

    9 chest, chest off. Then he would be on leg handcuffs,

    10 you cannot move anywhere.

    11 Q. Was he standing up when this happens?

    12 A. It is in the warehouse.

    13 Q. I know, but I am trying to understand, you

    14 are sitting down, I am trying to understand if the

    15 victim was standing up?

    16 A. Yes, standing up. You cannot sit down.

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    17 There is no way you can sit down.

    18 Q. Do you know how long he was left like that?

    19 A. He would be there maybe two days, three days

    20 four days, when he is tired and everything. If he

    21 touches the commander, sometimes he has pity, sometimes

    22 he has pity to the commander. Sometimes he has

    23 pity. He will now ask to release. If the commander

    24 doesn't give order to release that man, if any soldier

    25 tells him to release that man you will be detained or

    56

    1 you will go for court-martials offence, it is an

    2 offence in the army.

    3 Q. What is a jack-knife?

    4 A. A jack-knife is a knife we use in

    5 operation. If your bullet is finished and maybe enemy

    6 want to get you close, if you don't have any extra

    7 bullet when you are fighting you use the jack-knife to

    8 defend yourself.

    9 Q. Were jack-knives ever used in torture?

    10 A. Yes, they used jackknife for torturing by

    11 designing, designing somebody's skin. You use sharp

    12 object and mark him S, you can use it to design.

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    Raphael Kponee

    Q. When did you see Major Okuntimo at the Shell

    3 IA?

    4 MR MILLSON: Object to the form of the

    5 question?

    6 A. When, I can't remember the date but I have

    7 seen him.

    8 MR MILLSON: Do you recall how many times

    9 you saw him?

    10 A. About three times.

    11 Q. Do you recall the first time you saw him?

    12 A. Yes.

    13 Q. What do you recall?

    14 A. What I recall is Mr George Upkpong called me

    15 and told me that he is expecting Mr Paul Okuntimo, I

    16 should let him in.

    17 Q. What happened after you received that phone

    18 call?

    19 A. Not quite 20 minutes from the time he called

    20 me, about that, I saw him, I saw Mr Okuntimo and I let

    21 him in.

    22 Q. Do you recall what vehicle he was in?

    23 A. I can't recall the type of vehicle, I can't

    24 recall. It is long.

    25 Q. What did you see next?

    23

    1 A. What I saw next was some bags, some bags,

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    2 Ghana Must Go lifted into the car he came with. That

    3 is what I saw.

    4 Q. Where was that?

    5 A. In the front of the charge room, the security

    6 building.

    7 MR MILLSON: Can I get that answer read

    8 back.

    9 (The answer was read back by the Court Reporter).

    10 MR D'AVINO: Did you see who lifted these

    11 bags?

    12 A. Yes, I did.

    13 Q. Who was that?

    14 A. His driver, Mr Upkpong's driver and Paul

    15 Okuntimo's driver.

    16 Q. Do you recall the name of Mr Upkpong's

    17 driver?

    18 A. I can't remember the name, no.

    19 Q. How many bags did you see lifted into

    20 Mr Okuntimo's vehicle?

    21 A. About three.

    22 Q. Three bags?

    23 A. About three, yes.

    24 Q. What happened next?

    25 A. When he drove out.

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    24

    1 Q. When Mr Okuntimo drove out?

    2 A. When Mr Paul Okuntimo drove out I called the

    3 driver of Mr George Upkpong and asked him what was the

    4 content of those bags lifted into that car. He told

    5 me money.

    6 Q. He told you there was money in those bags?

    7 A. Yes.

    8 Q. Why did you call him to ask him what was in

    9 those bags?

    10 A. It is our duty to know everything that goes

    11 out of Shell.

    12 Q. Did he tell you anything else?

    13 A. No.

    14 Q. Did you do anything about what you had heard?

    15 A. Say again.

    16 Q. Did you do anything about what you had heard?

    17 A. No.

    18 Q. Was this the only time you saw Paul Okuntimo

    19 in the Shell IA?

    20 A. No.

    21 Q. What was the second time?

    22 A. The second time there was no instruction from

    23 any person. I saw him as a senior military officer to

    24 me and let him in.

    25 Q. What did you see next?

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    25

    1 A. He drove into the yard and I didn't know

    2 where he was going to.

    3 MR MILLSON: Hang on one second, can you

    4 read back after what was the second time?

    5 (The answer was read back by the Court Reporter).

    6 MR D'AVINO: Did you see him again that day?

    7 A. Another day, yes, I did.

    8 Q. The third day?

    9 MR MILLSON: You asked him a question, did

    10 you see him again that day.

    11 MR D'AVINO: And he said another day. So

    12 you did not see him again that day?

    13 A. After the second day I saw him the third day.

    14 Q. What was the third date you saw him?

    15 A. I can't remember the date.

    16 Q. Fine. What did you see?

    17 A. I saw him and I also let him in. What he

    18 went for I don't know. He drove into the yard.

    19 Q. When Mr Okuntimo came through the gate those

    20 three times you testified about, was his name entered

    21 into the visitor log?

    22 A. No.

    23 Q. Why not?

    24 MR MILLSON: Object to the form of the

    25 question.

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    26

    1 A. Because you were told you have to use

    2 discretion, the discretion has to be used for the top

    3 military officer because if you don't let him in him

    4 anything can happen to you right there and you will be

    5 blamed.

    6 MR MILLSON: Can you read that question and

    7 answer back?

    8 (The question and answer was read back by the Court

    9 Reporter).

    10 MR MILLSON: I apologise.

    11 MR D'AVINO: That was a long pause, so let

    12 us go back to the third time that you saw Paul Okuntimo

    13 enter the Shell IA. Did you see where he went?

    14 A. He went towards the security building,

    15 towards the security building.

    16 Q. What did you see then?

    17 A. I saw him when he came out of the vehicle and

    18 enter inside the security building.

    19 Q. Did you see him come out of the security

    20 building?

    21 A. When he came out from the security building I

    22 did not see him because I was no longer watching him,

    23 but when he came to the gate I saw him when he was

    24 going.