twelfth report - joint select committee on ministries ... · joint select committee on ministries,...

PAPER NO: /2013 PARL NO. 14/6/13

Ordered to be printed with the Minutes of

Proceedings

and Notes of Evidence

ON THE

ADMINISTRATION AND OPERATIONS OF THE

NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM OF TRINIDAD AND

TOBAGO

PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF

TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO

Fourth Session (2013/2014)

TENTH PARLIAMENT

TWELFTH REPORT OF THE

JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE ON MINISTRIES, STATUTORY AUTHORITIES

AND STATE ENTERPRISES (GROUP 2)

Twelfth Report of the Joint Select Committee on Ministries, Statutory Authorities and State Enterprises (Group 2)

2

DATE LAID: HOR: November 13, 2013 SENATE: November 19, 2013


3


4

TABLE OF CONTENTS

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY ....................................................................................................................6

MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE .......................................................................................................8

THE COMMITTEE ........................................................................................................................... 10

Establishment………………………………………………………………………………………………….…………………………………10

Membership…………………………………………………………………………………………………….……………………..…………10

Changes in Membership……………………………………………………………….…………………………………………….….....11

Secretariat Support ....................................................................................................................... 11

Powers ......................................................................................................................................... 11

INTRODUCTION ............................................................................................................................ 13

Background .............................................................................................................................................. 13

Objectives of

Inquiry…………………………………………………………………………………….............................................................13

Ministerial Responsibilities for areas of inquiry ...................................................................................... 14

Conduct of the Inquiry ............................................................................................................................. 14

THE EVIDENCE ............................................................................................................................... 16

FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS ............................................................................................ 23

APPENDIX I ................................................................................................................................... 31

APPENDIX II .................................................................................................................................. 37

APPENDIX III ................................................................................................................................. 47


5


6

ABBREVIATIONS

APC Automatic Passenger Counters

AVL Automated Vehicle Location

CDA Chaguaramas Development Authority

CNG Compressed Natural Gas

CNTS Comprehensive National Transport Study

GPS Global Positioning System

IPTS Intelligent Public Transport System

MOT Ministry of Transport

MOU Memorandum of Understanding

MOWI

NIDCO

Ministry of Works and Infrastructure

National Infrastructure Development Company Limited

NIPDEC National Insurance Property Development Company Limited

NTP National Transport Plan

PSIP Public Sector Investment Programme

PTSC Public Transport Services Corporation

PURE Programme for Upgrading Roads Efficiency Unit

WASA Water and Sewerage Authority


7

LIST OF TABLES

TABLE

NO.

DETAILS PAGE

NO.

1. Breakdown of Traffic Warden Division as at June 28, 2013 20

2. Status of Procurement of CNG Powered/GPS Compatible Buses 22


8

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

At its Sixteenth Meeting held on Friday June 8, 2012, the Committee agreed to conduct an

inquiry into the National Transportation System of Trinidad and Tobago. To this end, the

Committee sought to obtain both oral and written evidence on this subject. In October, 2012,

the Committee wrote to the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure and the Ministry of

Transport requesting pre-hearing submissions on the follow areas:

1. The status of the National Transport Study;

2. The measures which are in place for the expansion and improvement of the public transport systems;

3. The development and maintenance of an efficient road network;

4. The methods for alleviation of traffic congestion on the highways and major roads;

5. The Priority Bus Route Traffic Scheme;

6. Examination of the Traffic Warden System.

Subsequent to reviewing the written submissions received on these areas, the Committee held

a public hearing with officials of both Ministries on Friday January 11, 2013, to engage in

further discussions on the administration and operations of the National Transport System.

The evidence received suggested that both Ministries have implemented plans and initiatives

with a view of enhancing certain aspects of the country’s transportation system. This was

particularly evident in the area of traffic management and public transport. As it reviewed its

findings, the Committee also noted plans for several major infrastructural projects including

highways and road expansions.

Nevertheless, the Committee identified several aspects of the administration of the Public

Transportation Network which required further development and attention. One major

shortcoming was the lack of an approved National Transportation Study, an essential tool to

guide and inform the State’s plans and initiatives. As such, the Committee has proposed

recommendations to address some of the issues/shortcomings that were identified in its

findings. We expect that the relevant Ministries and other stakeholders would take into

consideration the findings and recommendations of this report, as they work towards


9

improving our transportation system which is an important requirement for our country’s

development.

Dr. Victor Wheeler Chairman


10

MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE

Dr. Victor Wheeler Mr. David Small CHAIRMAN VICE-MEMBER

Dr. Bhoendradatt Tewarie Dr. Tim Gopeesingh, MP Mr. Clifton De Coteau, MP

MEMBER MEMBER MEMBER

Mr. Collin Partap, MP Mr. Kevin Ramnarine Dr. Lincoln Douglas, MP MEMBER MEMBER MEMBER

Mrs. Raziah Ahmed Ms. Alicia Hospedales, MP Mr. Fitzgerald Jeffrey, MP

MEMBER MEMBER MEMBER

Dr. Lester Henry

MEMBER


11

An electronic copy of this report can be found on the Parliament website: www.ttparliament.org The Joint Select Committee appointed to inquire into and report to Parliament on Ministries (Group 2), and on the Statutory Authorities and State Enterprises falling under their purview Contact the Committee’s Secretariat

Telephone: 624-7275 Extensions 2277/2288/2282, Fax: 625-4672 Email: [email protected]

http://www.ttparliament.org/

mailto:[email protected]


12

1. THE COMMITTEE

Establishment and Mandate

1.1 Section 66 of the Constitution of Trinidad and Tobago declares, that not later than

three months after the first meeting of the House of Representatives, the Parliament shall

appoint Joint Select Committees to inquire into and report to both Houses in respect of

Government Ministries, Municipal Corporations, Statutory Authorities, State Enterprises

and Service Commissions, in relation to their administration, the manner of exercise of their

powers, their methods of functioning and any criteria adopted by them in the exercise of their

powers and functions.

1.2 Motions related to this purpose were passed in the House of Representatives and

Senate on September 17, 2010 and October 12, 2010, respectively, and thereby established,

inter alia, the Joint Select Committee to inquire into and report to Parliament on

Ministries with responsibility for the business set out in the Schedule as Group 2, and

on the Statutory Authorities and State Enterprises falling under their purview with

regard to their administration, the manner of exercise of their powers, their methods

of functioning and any criteria adopted by them in the exercise of their powers and

functions.

Powers

1.3 Standing Orders 71B of the Senate and 79B of the House of Representatives delineate

the core powers of the Committee which include inter alia:

to send for persons, papers and records;

to adjourn from place to place;

to appoint specialist advisers either to supply information which is not otherwise

readily available or to elucidate matters of complexity within the Committee’s

order of reference; and

to communicate with any other Committee of Parliament on matters of common

interest.


13

1.4 The business as well as the entities which fall under the purview of your Committee is

attached as Appendix I.

Membership

1.5 The Committee comprises the following members:

1. Dr. Victor Wheeler1 - Chairman

2. Mr. David Small2 - Vice-Chairman

3. Dr. Tim Gopeesingh, MP - Member

4. Mr. Clifton De Coteau, MP - Member

5. Dr. Lincoln Douglas, MP - Member

6. Mr. Collin Partap, MP - Member

7. Ms. Alicia Hospedales, MP - Member

8. Mr. Fitzgerald Jeffrey, MP - Member

9. Dr. Bhoendradatt Tewarie - Member

10. Mr. Kevin Ramnarine - Member

11. Mrs. Raziah Ahmed3 - Member

12. Dr. Lester Henry - Member

Changes in Membership

1.6 Dr. James Armstrong was appointed to the Committee on October 12, 2013 and

served as the Committee’s Chairman from October 22, 2010 until the termination of his

Senatorial appointment on August 01, 2013. Mrs. Lyndia Oudit served as a Member of the

Committee with effect from October 12, 2010 until the termination of her Senatorial

appointment on August 31, 2013. Mrs. Oudit and Dr. Armstrong were replaced by Mrs.

Raziah Ahmed and Mr. David Small, who were appointed to serve on the Committee with

effect from September 23 and September 25, 2013 respectively.

1.5 Secretarial Support

1 Elected as Chairman at the 25th meeting held on October 04, 2013

2 Elected as Vice-Chairman at the 25th meeting held on October 04, 2013 3 Appointed to serve on the Committee on September 23, 2013


14

Secretarial assistance was provided by the following officers:

o Mr. Julien Ogilvie - Secretary

o Ms. Candice Skerrette - Assistant Secretary

o Mrs. Katharina Gokool-Mark- Graduate Research Assistant

o Mr. Indar Sieunarine - Parliamentary Intern


15

2. INTRODUCTION

Background

2.1 A modern and appropriately managed transportation system is vital to a country’s

development. The Ministry of Transport, formerly the Ministry of Works and Transport, is

responsible for all aspects of public transportation by land, sea or air and to provide an efficient

transportation system to the population of Trinidad and Tobago. Due to the realignment of

Ministries in 2012, the responsibilities associated with Works and Transport are now under the

purview of separate Ministries. Thus, the management and development of the transport system

is now a shared responsibility between the Ministry of Transport and the Ministry of Works and

Infrastructure. The advantages and disadvantages of the commissioning of separate Ministries

are axiomatic.

2.2 However, the transport system is fraught with issues ranging from major traffic

congestion in and around Port of Spain, a public transport system in need of further

modernisation and road network that requires further expansion and remodelling to suit the

needs of 21st Century Trinidad and Tobago. . Studies such as the National Transportation Plan of

1967 and the Comprehensive National Transport Study (CNTS) of 2005 were commissioned to

come up with solutions to these and other shortcomings.

2.3 Nevertheless, there have been challenges with the implementation of these plans; most

recent among them was the proposed Rapid Rail project that has been shelved.

Objectives of the Inquiry

2.4 The following objectives formed the terms of reference for the inquiry:

I. To determine what measures are in place for the expansion and improvement of the

public transport systems;

II. To examine methods for traffic alleviation;

III. To determine what progress has been made since the Transport Study was conducted

and


16

Whether the study was published (if not, why);

IV. To look into what is being done to develop and maintain a sound and efficient road

network;

V. To investigate the Priority Bus Route Traffic Scheme; how successful was it; and

VI. To examine the traffic warden system and what progress has been made.

Ministerial Responsibilities for areas of inquiry

2.5 Many aspects of the National Transport System are split between both the Ministry

of Transport and the Ministry of the Works and Infrastructure. For the purpose of the

inquiry, the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure was required to respond to the following

issues:

The Status of the National Transport Study;

The development and maintenance of an efficient road network;

The methods for alleviation of traffic congestion on the highways and major

roads;

The Priority Bus Route Traffic Scheme; and

Examination of the Traffic Warden System.

2.6 Whilst the Ministry of Transport provided responses in relation to :

The measures which are in place for the expansion and improvement of the

public transport systems; and

Transportation arrangements for the differently-abled.

Conduct of the Inquiry

2.7 On Friday January 11, 2013, representatives of Ministry of Transport and the

Ministry of Works and Infrastructure attended a public hearing. Prior to this, notice was

given as to the general objectives of the inquiry and written submissions were requested from

both Ministries. The responses received from the Ministries provided the basis for the

supplementary questions pursued at the hearing.


17

2.8 The Ministry of Transport was represented at the meeting of Friday January 11, 2013

by:

i. Ms. Verna Johnson Permanent Secretary

ii. Mr. Rupert Ramharack Organizational Performance Management Specialist

iii. Mr. Gobin Harrypersad Legal Advisor, Ministry of Transport iv. Mr. Colin Lucas General Manager, Port Authority of T&T v. Mr. Leon Grant Deputy Chief Executive Officer,

T&T Inter-Island Transportation Co. Ltd vi. Ms. Camile Hypolite-Ferdinand Executive Manager (Ag.) Finance & Adm.,

Port Authority of T&T vii. Mr. Ronald Forde General Manager, PTSC

viii. Mr. Brian Wannette Deputy General Manager, PTSC ix. Mr. Harrypersad Bisram Deputy General Manager, PTSC x. Ms. Sharon Taylor Project Director, Water Taxi Services

(NIDCO) xi. Mr. Joseph Kaczmarek Customer Service Coordinator (NIDCO)

2.9 The Ministry of Works and Infrastructure was represented at the meeting of

Friday January 11, 2013 by:

Mr. Isaac James Permanent Secretary Mr. Roger Israel Deputy Permanent Secretary Mr. Roger Ganesh Director of Highways Mr. Adande Piggott Traffic Engineer

2.10 Several issues raised at the hearing warranted detailed responses which were

subsequently submitted in written form to your Committee.

2.11 The draft of this Report was considered and approved with amendments at the 25th

Meeting of the Committee held on October 04, 2013.

2.12 The Minutes of this meeting of the Committee with regard to this inquiry is attached

as Appendix II. The Notes of Evidence of the hearing held on Friday January 11, 2013 is

attached as Appendix III.


18

3. THE EVIDENCE

3.1 The following is a summary of the written and verbal evidence received from the

Ministries concerned:

OVERLAPPING RESPONSIBILITIES

3.2 The Committee was informed that the realignment of the Ministry of Works and

Transport in 2011 that resulted in the creation of a separate Ministry responsible for

Transport and thereafter the removal of the drainage function in 2012 to the Ministry of the

Environment and Water Resources has, of course, presented both Ministries with some

challenges since there are still overlapping responsibilities.

NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION STUDY – MOWI

3.3 It was confirmed that the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure is responsible for

developing the highway network system. The National Transportation Plan (NTP) of 1967

provided guidance to this end and this Plan was scheduled for complete revision by the year

1986. Several attempts were made to update this Plan, the most recent being the

Comprehensive National Transportation Study (CNTS) of 2005. The CNTS was intended to

provide the Master Plan for the development of the Transportation Sector to the year 2026.

However, the output of CNTS was rejected due to major scope and technical deficiencies in

the work undertaken by the Consultants, Parsons-Brinckerhoff. The CNTS Final report was

eventually deemed not credible and was rejected.

3.4 As at 2013, transportation infrastructure investment decisions are being taken in the

absence of an updated and credible national transportation plan. These decisions run the very

real risk of having been conceived and implemented in isolation from each other and from any

identifiable overall Policy or Strategy. This applies to ongoing initiatives regarding the

Water Taxi, Port Relocation, Sea and Air Bridge, East-West Corridor Interchanges,

Highway Network expansion, PTSC re-fleeting, Rapid Rail, Urban Redevelopment, New

Towns, among others. Although it is possible to continue with a de facto ad hoc approach,


19

both old and new plans must be integrated into a single comprehensive development policy if

efficiency of investments and effectiveness of measures is to be realized.

ROAD DEVELOPMENT POLICY – MOWI

3.5 Cabinet approval has been conveyed for the completion of ongoing projects and the

provision of road connectivity through a:

Highway from San Fernando to Point Fortin

Highway from San Fernando to Princes Town

Highway from San Fernando to Mayaro

Highway from Princes Town to Moruga

Highway from Princes Town to Rio Claro

Dualling of Rivulet Road from the Couva/Preysal Interchange to the Couva

Roundabout on the Southern Main Road to highway standards

Highway from Cumuto to Manzanilla through Sangre Grande

Highway from Sangre Grande to Toco

Road extension from Blanchisseuse to Matelot

New access link to Chaguaramas via sea or land.

3.6 Minor roads are not under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Works and

Infrastructure this responsibility falls under the Ministry of Local Government, but

assistance is given in the maintenance and development, where it assists in congestion relief

from the major roads.

ROAD MAINTENANCE – MOWI

3.7 The general duty of care of the Highways Division is to maintain the highway

network ensuring that the highways are safe and that the public can use them without

obstruction. The Highways Division has a duty under the Highways Act Chap. 48:01 to

protect the rights of the public to use and enjoy the highway.


20

3.8 The Committee was advised that a Highway Maintenance Strategy was formulated to

achieve the Highways Division objective which is summarized as follows:

To provide a clear statement of Highway Maintenance policies and procedures;

To provide a defined network that is categorized to meet the reasonable

demands of all highway users;

To maintain a systematic approach to decision making within a consistent

framework of policies, standards and procedures;

To provide a uniform and common basis for assessing the maintenance needs

and resource requirements;

To assist in the effective allocation of resources;

To regularly review policies, procedures and monitor the effectiveness of

maintenance programmes; and

Embrace the “Best value” and asset management philosophy for Highway

Maintenance.

TRAFFIC SIGNALIZATION SCHEMES – MOWI

3.9 Most of the signalized intersections on the road network were installed in the early

1990s. It has been estimated that over sixty-five percent (65%) require upgrading of physical

equipment and signal timing. Specific improvement could include one or more of the

following:

Interconnected pre-timed signals;

Traffic actuated signals;

Interconnected actively managed timing plans; and

Master controls.

[The submissions received did not indicate if and when these upgrades will be implemented.]

3.10 Also, a comprehensive review of existing traffic signals may indicate the need for

replacement with major infrastructural works such as overpasses.


21

COLLABORATIONS WITH WATER AND SEWERAGE AUTHORITY (WASA)

THE MOWI

3.11 Submissions indicated that leaking WASA lines contribute towards land failure to the

roadway. In order to improve the level of collaboration, a Memorandum of Understanding

(MOU) has been drafted and it will be going to Cabinet for final approval.

3.12 Further, there has been an improved coordination between WASA and the Highways

Division. When WASA fixes a leak or does major developing works, it has been repaired

properly.

TRAFFIC WARDEN SYSTEM – MOWI

3.13 The Traffic Warden Division began operations on March 25, 2011. It currently (as at

June 28, 2013) employs one hundred and eighty-nine (189) Traffic Wardens. During the

fiscal year 2011-2012, overall expenditure was $17,947,121. The breakdown of the number of

positions in the Traffic Warden Division exclusive of administrative staff is stated in Table 1.

Table 1: Breakdown of Traffic Warden Division as at June 28, 2013

Position Number of Traffic Wardens Approved

Number of Traffic Wardens Currently

Employed Traffic Warden Supervisors 7 7

Traffic Warden II 21 14

Traffic Warden I 175 168

3.14 After a full year of field activity, the Division performed a comprehensive appraisal of

the Scheme and produced a Proposal to revise the structure of the organization. A Note was

submitted to Cabinet (WI (12)19 of June 3, 2012), detailing its opinion on a possible island-

wide deployment of Traffic Wardens.


22

PROGRAMME FOR UPGRADING ROADS EFFICIENCY (PURE) UNIT – MOWI

3.15 The Programme for Upgrading Roads Efficiency (PURE) is the predominant project

management/design scheme for the implementation of road infrastructure projects critical to

both the sustenance of national economic development and the increased and improved

accessibility of communities, irrespective of institutional boundaries.

NATIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE DEVELOPMENT COMPANY LIMITED (NIDCO) AND NATIONAL INSURANCE PROPERTY DEVELOPMENT COMPANY LIMITED (NIPDEC) – MOWI

3.16 The National Infrastructure Development Company Limited (NIDCO) has been

partnering with the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure in providing procurement, project

and contract management services for assigned projects.

GLOBAL POSITIONING SYSTEM (GPS)

3.17 The PTSC is in the process of installing a GPS system in all of the Corporation’s

buses. The first phase of the project was successfully tendered and a contract was awarded in

the amount of $2.2 million. This phase provides for the installation of GPS devices in all of

the Corporation buses. The company has completed installation of the GPS devices in 370

buses. This first phase provides Automated Vehicle Location (AVL) tracking from which the

Corporation is currently accruing benefits. Vehicles can now be located with real time

information on its location, speed and journey history. The status of the GPS project as at

June 24, 2013 is:

a. Phase 1: Vehicle Tracking – Completed

b. Phase 2: Automatic Passenger Counting & Traveler Information Services –

Eighteen (18) months

c. Phase 3: Transit Communication – Twelve (12) months

d. Phase 4: Automated Scheduling – Twelve (12) monthS

e. Phase 5: Electronic Fare Payment – Eighteen (18) monthS

f. Phase 6: Maintenance Tracking – Eighteen (18) months


23

3.18 The devices presently installed will serve as the core platform for further

developments in creating an Intelligent Public Transport System encompassing arrival

information displays, automatic passenger counters (APCs) and Electronic Ticketing.

COMPRESSED NATURAL GAS (CNG) CONVERSIONS

3.19 Cabinet approved the procurement of one hundred new CNG powered/GPS

compatible buses to add to the Corporation’s fleet. The units are to be purchased in phases

and a budget of TT$40 million was allocated in the 2012/2013 PSIP draft estimates to

facilitate this process.

3.20 The Cabinet Minute mandated the purchase of 15 articulated 45 medium and 40 mini

buses to service the different routes throughout Trinidad and Tobago. The project was

assigned to NIPDEC in March 2012. The progress as at June 24, 2013 is stated in Table 2.

Table 2: Status of Procurement of CNG Powered/GPS Compatible Buses

Item Activity Status Completion Date 1 Project assigned to

NIPDEC Complete March 15, 2012

2 Invitation to tender issued by NIPDEC

Complete May 14, 2012 – May 18, 2012

3 Tender close off date Complete June 14, 2012 4 Evaluation of tenders Complete December 11, 2012 5 Presentations to Evaluation

Committee by three (3) tenderers

Complete November 30, 2012

6 Tenders Committee Recommendation to

NIPDEC Board

Complete July 11, 2012

7 NIPDEC Board decision on Tenders Committee

recommendation

Complete June 13, 2013

8 Award of Contract Outstanding N/A

PARK AND RIDE FACILITIES – MOT

3.21 The Committee was informed that the objective of the park and ride project is to

intercept motorists at strategic locations in order to reduce the number of vehicle-kilometers

travelled, as well as the number of single-occupant-vehicles, and so to remove a significant


24

amount of vehicles daily from the roads and highways of Trinidad and Tobago. It is

proposed that park and ride facilities be established in Carlsen Field, Arima, Tunapuna, San

Fernando, Tarouba and Rio Claro.

3.22 Furthermore, it is anticipated that in each of these locations the parking facilities will

accommodate approximately 750 cars. These projects will be pilot projects and will be

reviewed periodically to quantify the benefits.


25

4. FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS

4.1 Based on the submissions received, the Committee acquired sufficient insight into the

administration of some of the activities of the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure

and the Ministry of Transport. However there was a lack of definitive

pronouncements on the timeframe and scope of some initiatives which is generally

required for benchmarking and evaluating the Ministries’ performance in respect of

the areas highlighted. Further to the objectives of the inquiry outlined on page 9, the

Committee made the following observations/findings, which are submitted with

commensurate recommendations:

Objective 1

Determine what measures are in place for the expansion and improvement of the public

transport systems.

4.1.1 Based on submissions, it is evident that the Ministry of Transport was established as a

separate and distinct entity to allow for the strategic concentration of resources required

for the overall enhancement of the public transportation system. The evidence suggests

that since its establishment in 2011, the Ministry has pursued various policy measures

with a view of improving the efficiency of the operations of PTSC. For instance, the

installation of new GPS technology on buses. It was noted that this initiative represents

the first phase of an Intelligent Public Transport System (IPTS). However, the

Committee observed that there appears to be no definitive time frame for the completion

of this project.

4.1.2 The Committee also noted the intention to expand PTSC’s fleet through the purchasing

of 100 new CNG powered and GPS compatible buses. The Committee considers the

acquisition of CNG buses as a laudable initiative that will aid in reducing this country’s

Carbon Footprint. However, the inquiry did not unearth the number of buses that are

presently under repair and the average repair time for same.


26

4.1.3 In general, the foregoing initiatives suggest some progress in the modernisation of the

public transport system.

RECOMMENDATION

Although the expansion in the fleet of vehicles is an obvious necessity to

increase the carrying capacity of PTSC, we recommend that in the interest of

financial prudence, a proper vehicle maintenance and repair system be

established or if already in existence, modified to ensure that the down-time for

buses is kept to a minimum.

Objective 2

To examine methods for traffic alleviation

4.2.1 Based on the submissions received, it can be concluded that most of the initiatives of both

Ministries would ultimately result in some measure of reduction in traffic congestion. The

Committee noted that Cabinet approval has been sought for the introduction of park-and-

ride facilities throughout the country as a direct traffic reduction measure and also as an

incentive to encourage greater use of PTSC Buses and the Water Taxi Service. However,

the effectiveness of this measure will depend on the development of PTSC’s passenger

capacity and also the expansion in Water Taxi Service routes. The former requirement is

being addressed through the purchasing of 100 buses; however, submissions received by

the Committee did not suggest a definitive position on the plans to expand the number of

Water Taxi routes.

4.2.2 It appears that a feasibility study of the park-and-ride initiative was conducted and it was

estimated that 750 will be accommodated at each facility. It was also projected that the

implementation of this traffic reduction measure will result in a reduction in state

expenditure on the gas subsidy since fewer vehicles on the road ought to translate into a

reduction in demand for gas.

4.2.3 Furthermore, the introduction of Traffic Wardens in 2011 is another commendable

initiative that has assisted with traffic management in specific areas. This programme is

also due for expansion in that the approval of Cabinet has been sought for the recruitment


27

of 1300 additional officers. In addition, the proposed high capacity lane from Chaguanas

to Port of Spain may also assist with alleviating the amount of traffic congestion that has

been a major challenge since the number of vehicles continues to expand exponentially

against an almost static road network.

RECOMMENDATION

We recommend that the park and ride facilities in San Fernando should be

expanded as a matter of priority (in the short-term) to assist in encouraging

more commuters to utilize the Water Taxi Service.

Objective 3

To determine what progress has been made since the Transport Study was conducted

4.3.1 Submissions received indicated that since the National Transportation Plan of 1967 was

done, no comprehensive study/plan has been completed and implemented. The

Committee noted with great concern the fact that the multi-million dollar transportation

study of 2008 was never released because it was not approved. A scenario whereby a

transportation study that cost tax payers several million dollars was declared as

inapplicable due to discrepancies in the study’s scope and or terms of reference is grossly

unacceptable. However, the Committee considers the development of a national

transportation plan to guide the implementation of transportation policy initiatives as an

imperative for the government.

4.3.2 A pre-feasibility study has been done for the link from Chaguaramas to Port of Spain and

officials admitted it was insufficient. Officials submitted that a comprehensive feasibility

study was needed and estimated that it would take approximately twenty-four (24)

months to complete.

4.3.3 Furthermore, submissions also suggested that overlapping responsibilities between both

Ministries, as well as the two (2) tiers of decision-making, planning and implementation

between technocrats and policy-makers has resulted in undue delays in decision-making

and consensus in this area.


28

RECOMMENDATIONS

A. An updated National Transportation Plan is necessary not only as a critical

development tool but also to harmonize the strategies and policies of the Ministry

of Works and Infrastructure and the Ministry of Transport. This should be done in

the context of an overarching policy and framework through consultation with the

Ministry responsible for Planning and Sustainable Development. Therefore, we

recommend that the respective Ministries be mandated to conduct a

comprehensive transportation study that would effectively address the

requirements for transport based on the various economic, social and

environmental considerations.

B. We further recommend that the Project specifications/Terms of References for

future Transportation Studies be carefully formulated to ensure optimum

applicability and validity.

C. Also a feasibility study from Chaguaramas to Port of Spain should be given

priority as it is the only access road for many citizens in the North-West

peninsula. Past incidences of major events and emergencies along the North-

West Peninsula have highlighted the need for additional roadways as part of

disaster management planning.

D. Given that the construction of the highway from San Fernando to Point Fortin

appeared to have generated numerous appeals and expressions of concern by

stakeholders, which required the Ministry to delay/suspend work on certain

portions of the proposed highway to pursue additional consultations/dialogue, we

strongly recommend that the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure consider

formulating an effective stakeholder consultation strategy/framework that would

be applied to subsequent projects of this nature.

Objective 4

To look into what is being done to develop and maintain a sound and efficient road

network.

4.4.1 Officials admitted there are challenges to conducting preventative road maintenance

due to ongoing operation of public utilities such as WASA. Soil composition, poor

drainage from houses and existing poor road structures in Trinidad and Tobago were

also cited as major contributors to degradation of the roads. However, in an effort to


29

address this anomaly, the MoWI has drafted a Memorandum of Understanding

(MOU) to improve collaboration amongst utilities for Cabinet’s consideration.

4.4.2 There are also plans to alleviate the prevalence of road erosion caused by movement of

heavy vehicles by regulating certain types of vehicles on certain roads. This policy

measure was expected to be implemented over the next two (2) years.

4.4.3 To add, the Committee raised concerns that there are further issues that contribute to

this problem such as poor supervision and ad-hoc road maintenance. Officials

conveyed that additional positions of Road Inspector were advertised in January 2013

and once employed, should lead to an improvement in maintenance of roads and

highways.

4.4.4 Further, the organizational structure of the Highways Division over the last 15 years

has not kept pace with additional responsibilities that have been added to the Division.

Thus, officers are being contracted to deal with the shortfall of reporting incidents.

However, the establishment of the Programme for Upgrading Road Efficiency (PURE)

Unit is clearly an indication that the MOWI has adopted a methodical approach to the

development and maintenance of highways and major road networks.

4.4.5 The MoWI’s intention to construct the first ‘Smart Highway’ in the country and by

extension the region, from Rivulet Road Couva to Point Lisas was noted with interest. It

was encouraging to hear that it was envisioned that the authorities would be capable of

monitoring and regulating activities/events occurring along the ‘Smart Highway’4.

RECOMMENDATIONS

A. We recommend that the organizational structure of the Highways Division should

be restructured to take into consideration the present roles and responsibilities and

to anticipate the future needs of the Division.

4 See final paragraph of Verbatim Notes on page 60 for more information on ‘Smart Highways’


30

B. We also recommend that a policy be developed to guide the collaborative efforts of

all public utilities to ensure resources and activities are utilized in a planned and

coordinated manner.

Objective 5

To investigate the Priority Bus Route Traffic Scheme; how successful was it.

4.5.1 The Committee noted that the PBR traffic scheme which was introduced on an

experimental basis from July 1, 2010 to June 31, 2011, appeared to have some success in

its initial stages. However, information received did not suggest that any impact

assessment was conducted in order to gauge the success or feasibility of the scheme. It

has been noted that due to improvements in the traffic flow on the highway leading to

Port of Spain in addition to a more active police presence on the PBR, there was a decline

in use of this option by the public.

4.5.2 Since its first installation in 2010, the PBR Scheme has been repeatedly reinstated,

without gaps, until the present. In fact, the last repeat ended on June 30, 2013. The

process is currently underway for a further repeat.

RECOMMENDATION

We recommend that an impact assessment be conducted of the scheme to

determine the way forward regarding future extensions.

Objective 6

To examine the traffic warden system and what progress has been made.

4.6.1 The first phase of this System was assessed as fairly successful. The Committee noted

that it was the intention of the Ministry to recruit additional Wardens in fiscal

2011/2012 which would have resulted in an overall expenditure of $17,947,121

during the fiscal year 2011-2012.

4.6.2 In addition, the Committee considers the $300 fine for failing to comply with the

instructions by a traffic warden under the Motor Vehicles and Road Traffic Act Chap.


31

48:50 insufficient to empower the work of the Wardens and deter motorists from

speeding.

4.6.3 There was an absence of submissions on a public awareness campaign by the Ministry.

RECOMMENDATIONS

A. In order to improve the level of traffic law enforcement, we recommend that

the Motor Vehicles and Road Traffic Act Chap. 48:50 be amended to

increase the existing fine for the offence of failing to comply with the

instructions of a Traffic Warden.

B. The Committee recommends an ongoing public awareness campaign to

explain the role of the traffic wardens.

Your Committee respectfully submits this Report for the consideration of the Parliament.

Sgd Sgd

Dr. Victor Wheeler Mr. David Small Chairman Vice-Chairman Sgd Sgd

Dr. Tim Gopeesingh, MP Mr. Clifton De Coteau, MP Member Member Sgd Sgd Mr. Kevin Ramnarine Dr. Lincoln Douglas, MP Member Member Sgd Sgd Ms. Alicia Hospedales, MP Mr. Collin Partap, MP Member Member


32

Sgd Sgd Mr. Fitzgerald Jeffrey, MP Dr. Bhoendradatt Tewarie Member Member Sgd Sgd Mrs. Raziah Ahmed Dr. Lester Henry Member Member October 04, 2013


33

APPENDIX I ENTITIES FALLING UNDER THE

COMMITTEE’S PURVIEW


34

List of Ministries, Statutory Authorities and State Enterprises that fall under the purview of this

Committee:

1. Local Government

Trinidad and Tobago Solid Waste Management Company Limited

Community Improvement Services Limited

East Port of Spain Development Company Limited

Palo Seco Agricultural Enterprises Limited

Rural Development Company of Trinidad and Tobago

2. National Security

Defence Force Commissions Board

Defence Council

National Drug Council

Strategic Services Agency

Youth Training Centre Board of Management 3. Office of the Prime Minister

Sport and Culture Board of Management

4. People and Social Development

Social Welfare District Boards

Trinidad and Tobago Association in Aid of the Deaf

Trinidad and Tobago Blind Welfare Association

5. Planning and Sustainable Development

Advisory Town Planning Panel

Caribbean Industrial Research Institute (CARIRI)

Chaguaramas Development Authority

Council for Innovation and Competitiveness

Economic Development Board

National Population Council 6. Public Administration

Telecommunications Authority of Trinidad and Tobago (TATT)

Government Human Resources Services Limited (GHRS)

7. Public Utilities

Regulated Industries Commission

Water and Sewerage Authority (WASA)

- Water Resource Agency

The Trinidad and Tobago Electricity Commission (TTEC)

The Trinidad and Tobago Postal Corporation (TTPOST)

Telecommunications Services of Trinidad and Tobago Limited (TSTT)


35

8. Science and Technology

National Institute of Higher Education (Research, Science and Technology)

National Information, Communication, Technology Limited (iGovTT)

Telecommunications Authority of Trinidad and Tobago (TATT)

9. Sport

National Stadia Board of Management

Regional Complexes

Trinidad and Tobago Boxing Board of Control

Sport Company of Trinidad and Tobago Limited

10. Tertiary Education and Skills Training

Accreditation Council of Trinidad and Tobago (ACTT)

Board of Industrial Training

College of Science, Technology and Applied Arts (COSTAATT)

Eastern Caribbean Institute of Agriculture and Forestry (ECIAF)

John S. Donaldson Technical Institute

National Energy Skills Centre

National Training Agency

San Fernando Technical Institute

Teachers Training Colleges

Trinidad and Tobago Hospitality and Tourism Institute

University of the West Indies

- Open Campus

University of Trinidad and Tobago:

Metal Industries Company Limited (MIC)

- Government Vocational Centre

Youth Training and Employment Partnership Programme Limited (YTEPP)

11. Tobago Development

Tobago Regional Health Authority

12. Tourism

Zoological Society of Trinidad and Tobago

Tourism Development Company Limited

13. Trade and Industry and Investments

Betting Levy Board

Trinidad and Tobago Bureau of Standards

Trinidad and Tobago Racing Authority

Weights and Measures

Evolving TecKnologies and Enterprise Development Company Limited (e-TecK)

Export-Import Bank of Trinidad and Tobago Limited

Trinidad and Tobago Free Zones Company Limited

Business Development Company Limited

Point Lisas Industrial Estate

Trinidad and Tobago Entertainment Company Limited)TTent)


36

Trinidad and Tobago Film Company

Caribbean Leasing Company Limited (CLCL)

National Flour Mills

Premier Quality Services Limited (PQSL) subsidiary of TTBS

14. Works and Infrastructure

National Infrastructure Development Company Limited (NIDCO)

National Maintenance Training and Security Company Limited (MTS)

15. Transport

Airports Authority of Trinidad and Tobago

Air Transport Licensing Authority

Pilotage Authority

Port Authority of Trinidad and Tobago

Public Transport Services Corporation

Transport Board

Trinidad and Tobago Civil Aviation Authority

Caribbean Airlines Limited

The Vehicle Maintenance Corporation of Trinidad and Tobago Limited

National Helicopter Company Limited

Point Lisas Port Development Corporation Limited (PLIPDECO)

LIAT (1974) Limited


37

APPENDIX II MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS


38

PRESENT

Dr. James Armstrong Chairman Dr. Victor Wheeler Vice-Chairman Mrs. Lyndira Oudit Member Mr. Fitzgerald Jeffrey, MP Member Mr. Clifton De Coteau, MP Member Dr. Lincoln Douglas, MP Member Mr. Ralph Deonarine Secretary Ms. Candice Skerrette Assistant Secretary Ms. Candice Williams Graduate Research Assistant

ABSENT

Dr. Lester Henry Member (excused) Mr. Kevin Ramnarine Member (excused) Dr. Tim Gopeesingh, MP Member (excused) Ms. Alicia Hospedales, MP Member (excused) Dr. Bhoendradatt Tewarie Member (excused) Mr. Collin Partap, MP Member

REPRESENTATIVES OF THE MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT

Ms. Verna Johnson Permanent Secretary Mr. Rupert Ramharack Organizational Performance

Management Specialist Mr. Gobin Harrypersad Legal Advisor, Ministry of Transport Mr. Colin Lucas General Manager, Port Authority of

T&T Mr. Leon Grant Deputy Chief Executive Officer, T&T

Inter-Island Transportation Co. Ltd Ms. Camile Hypolite-Ferdinand Executive Manager (Ag.) Finance &

Adm., Port Authority of T&T Mr. Ronald Forde General Manager, PTSC Mr. Brian Wannette Deputy General Manager, PTSC Mr. Harrypersad Bisram Deputy General Manager, PTSC Ms. Sharon Taylor Project Director, Water Taxi

Services (NIDCO) Mr. Joseph Kaczmarek Customer Service Coordinator

(NIDCO)

MINUTES OF NINETEENTH MEETING OF THE JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE OF

PARLIAMENT APPOINTED TO INQUIRE INTO AND REPORT ON GOVERNMENT

MINISTRIES (GROUP 2), STATUTORY AUTHORITIES AND STATE ENTERPRISES FALLING

UNDER THOSE MINISTRIES, HELD IN OFFICE OF THE PARLIAMENT, TOWER D, PORT OF

SPAIN INTERNATIONAL WATERFRONT CENTRE, #1A WRIGHTSON ROAD, PORT OF SPAIN

ON FRIDAY, JANUARY 11, 2013 AT 9:55 A.M.


39

REPRESENTATIVES OF THE MINISTRY OF WORKS AND INFRASTRUCTURE

Mr. Isaac James Permanent Secretary Mr. Roger Israel Deputy Permanent Secretary Mr. Roger Ganesh Director of Highways Mr. Adande Piggott Traffic Engineer

INTRODUCTION 1.1 The Chairman called the meeting to order at 9:55 a.m. 1.2 Members were informed that Dr. Lester Henry, Mr. Kevin Ramnarine, Dr. Tim Gopeesingh, Ms. Alicia Hospedales and Dr. Bhoendradatt Tewarie had asked to be excused from the day’s proceedings.

CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES

2.1 The following corrections were made to the Minutes of the Seventeenth Meeting:

Paragraph 7.3 (ii), page 3: Delete and substitute “The Inter-Ministerial Committee was initially appointed in June 2010 whose mandate involved securing and expanding the GATE programme. One of the recommendations made by the Inter-Ministerial Committee was the establishment of a Standing Committee; the appointment of which was subsequently made by Cabinet in May 2011. “

Paragraph 7.3 (iii), page 3: Insert “In other instances, it may be brought to the attention of GATE from the student rather than the institution because not all institutions do reconciliations on a regular basis. This occurs when the student dropped out or withdrew and wants to continue a course. From 2008 to 2011, 15,378 GATE Clearance applications were denied under the GATE Clearance Policy.”

Paragraph 7.3 (ix), page 5: Delete paragraph and insert “Research is conducted from information worldwide to ascertain fees charged. Currently, the GATE Programme does not have a standardized fee structure, however it is an issue under consideration by the GATE Standing Committee. The Accreditation Council of Trinidad and Tobago has purview over the fees associated with tertiary education programmes and the Standing Committee looks at cost per credit within a range.”

Paragraph 7.3 (x), page 5: Insert “The provision of GATE would continue however for existing students through the remainder of their respective programmes. When the institution re-registers, an intensive, focused site review of all their facilities is conducted. The ACTT examines level 3 and above programmes and the NTA examines level 1 and 2 programmes.”

Paragraph 7.3 (xxi), page 8: Insert “Applicants to level one (1) of the pre-med programme require O’Levels and applicants for level three (3) require A’Levels. Only applicants who satisfy the level three (3) A’Level requirement qualify for funding under the GATE Programme.”


40

Paragraph 7.3 (xxii), page 8: Insert after the first sentence “At present, students must maintain a Grade Point Average (GPA) of ??

2.2 The motion for the confirmation of the Minutes of the Seventeenth Meeting, as amended, was moved by Mr. Clifton De Coteau and seconded by Dr. Victor Wheeler. 2.3 The following corrections were made to the Minutes of the Eighteenth Meeting:

Delete paragraph 3.1; and

Paragraph 5.1 (2), page 2: Delete “2008” and insert “2005”. 2.4 The motion for the confirmation of the Minutes of the Eighteenth Meeting, as amended, was moved by Dr. Victor Wheeler and seconded by Dr. Lincoln Douglas. 2.5 The Minutes of both meetings, as amended, were thereby confirmed.

MATTERS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH MEETING

3.1 Members were advised that the Water Resources Agency’s submission was circulated to the Committee via letter dated December 10, 2012 and additional information was requested from the Ministry of Tertiary Education & Skills Training with a deadline of January 23, 2013. MATTERS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES OF THE EIGHTEENTH MEETING 4.1 In addition, the edited draft SWMCOL report as well as SWMCOL submissions were circulated to the Committee via letter dated January 2, 2013. 4.2 The Chairman advised that at the last meeting of the Committee it was agreed that the first entity in its new work programme is the Tobago Regional Health Authority. SUSPENSION

5.1 The meeting was suspended at 10:20 a.m.

(Members proceeded to the J. Hamilton Maurice Room, Mezzanine Floor)

INQUIRY INTO THE NATIONAL TRANSPORT SYSTEM 6.1 The meeting resumed in the J. Hamilton Maurice Room at 10:25 a.m. 6.2 The Chairman welcomed officials of both the Ministry of Transport and the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure and apologized for the late start. Introductions were exchanged. (See pages 1-2 for the names of Officials.) 6.3 Detailed below are the issues raised and the responses which emanated from the discussion with the representatives of the Ministry of Transport and the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure on the National Transportation System:

(i) Opening Statements – Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Transport (MoT) The Ministry of Transport was formed due to realignment of Ministries in July 2011. This Ministry is responsible for the Public Transportation Service Corporation, Port Authority of Trinidad and Tobago and Water Taxi Service.


41

In addition, many committees such as the Air Services Agreement, National Road Safety Council and a Tribunal for maxi taxi operators fall under the purview of the Ministry of Transport.

(ii) Opening Statements – Deputy Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Works and Infrastructure (MoWI) MoWI (previously the Ministry of Works and Transport) was traditionally responsible for transport infrastructure between Trinidad and Tobago. The realignment of Ministries in July 2011 has caused some challenges and overlapping responsibilities between the MoT and the MoWI. The current portfolio items under this Ministry include bridges, roads, landslips, highways and traffic management. Primarily MoWI is responsible for the building, maintenance and upgrade as well as planning, projects, design, implementation and construction of each of these portfolio items.

(iii) Programme for Upgrading Roads Efficiency (PURE) Unit – MoWI

The PURE Unit is a project unit under the Highways Division and all staff within this Unit are employed on contract. Local roads are upgraded through the PURE Unit. There are designs for an interchange for the Marabella roundabout area and at the Cross-Crossing Tarouba Link Road to be implemented by the PURE Unit within three (3) years.

(iv) National Infrastructure Development Company Limited (NIDCO) and National Insurance Property Development Company Limited (NIPDEC) - MoWI The MoWI has a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with NIDCO and NIPDEC to provide procurement and project management services which are not inherent within the PURE Unit. In addition, NIDCO and NIPDEC are directly responsible for one hundred percent (100%) of the procurement of contracts for particular Units. NIDCO was set-up for major projects, whereas NIPDEC was set-up as a procurement agency for the Highways Division. The MoWI consults with NIDCO on major infrastructure projects including the Point Fortin Highway Project as well as other projects which require project management and/or design services.

(v) Inter-Island Ferry – MoT

The Committee was informed that arrangements exist for the relevant agencies to be accommodated for urgent transportation of both personnel and equipment in instances of a health crisis and/or emergency.

(vi) GPS - Public Transportation Service Corporation (PTSC) - MoT Officials conveyed that three hundred and seventy-five (375) PTSC buses have been installed with Global Positioning System (GPS) and a command centre is being set-up. At present, the project is in its second phase. In the third project phase, there will be a passenger information display system so that passengers would be able to view the arrival and departure times of buses. This project will also assist in determining traffic jams and accidents and assist in planning schedules in an efficient manner, through the command centre.


42

Before a bus goes to the passenger queue, it must go through a first-line safety check. This first-line check includes examination of the brakes, the water and the oil. A concern was raised whether this procedure was a contributing factor to buses’ departures being delayed.

(vii) Traffic Problems - MoT The Committee was informed that discussions are currently underway to establish a ‘park and ride’ system in San Fernando and a high capacity lane from Chaguanas to Port of Spain which is expected to alleviate existing road traffic.

(viii) National Transportation Study – MoWI

MoWI Officials admitted through their submissions, “…transportation infrastructure investment decisions are being taken in the absence of an updated and credible national transportation plan. These decisions run the very real risk of having been conceived and implemented in isolation from each other and from any identifiable overall Policy or Strategy.” The National Transportation Plan of 1967 was designed to cover a twenty (20) year period. During this twenty year period, an upgrade of the old plan was done. Officials confirmed that a national transportation study was done in 2008 but was never released because it was not accepted. However, officials conveyed that the two (2) tiers of decision-making and planning are at the technocrat level and policy-making level and often there is a disconnect between these two levels. The officials further stated that in resolving decisions involving directives from the two levels, it is always the policy decision that prevails.

(ix) Traffic Signalization Schemes – MoWI

Most traffic lights are controlled by a computer in the controller that regulates the timing of the lights. In addition, there are attenuators on the roadway that detect the number of vehicles on each leg. These lines may be destroyed or in a state of disrepair because of utility works that take place. Additional staff have been contracted to deal with this situation. Furthermore, there is a programme to replace the old traffic lights with modern lights, with controllers and with attenuators.

(x) Road Development Policy – MoWI

Road Development priorities are developed through proposals made at the technocrat level and these are sent to Cabinet for approval and implementation in the absence of an overall national transportation study. Officials conveyed that Cabinet’s approval was received to proceed with the highway from San Fernando to Point Fortin, San Fernando to Princes Town, Princes Town to Rio Claro, Rio Claro to Mayaro, Cumuto to Sangre Grande and Sangre Grande to Toco. In addition, feasibility studies were underway for highways from San Fernando to Mayaro and from Princes Town to Moruga.

Further, there are plans for an upgrade of the Rivulet Road from the Couva Interchange as a “smart highway” and a detailed feasibility study for the roadway link from Chaguaramas to Port of Spain.


43

(xi) North-South Priority Bus Route - MoWI The Committee raised a query as to whether there were any plans for a North-South Priority Bus Route (PBR). Officials responded that they had recently met with the Land Settlement Agency (LSA) for the development of old right-of-ways for highway development to supplement highway development.

(xii) Preventative Maintenance for Roadways – MoWI

Officials admitted that there has been a shortfall in the area of preventative maintenance. Challenges to proper maintenance include poor foundation of roads, housing developments built up to the edge of the road, poor drainage from houses onto the roadway and resistance from private land owners. An undertaking was given that over the next two (2) years, systems would be put in place to regulate the type of vehicles on certain roads. Officials admitted that the staff structure has not kept pace with the increasing level of responsibilities of the Highways Division. There is currently a shortfall of senior officers and positions are being contracted to improve the level of supervision in the area of road maintenance. There is a routine maintenance management system to monitor the effects on roadways, highways and main roads and recurrent repair are done.

(xiii) Collaborations with Water and Sewerage Authority (WASA) - MoWI

A MOU with WASA has been drafted and is to be submitted for Cabinet’s approval. Committee meetings are continuously held with WASA, resulting in an improved relationship between WASA and the Highways Division, as well as work is being conducted on a major improvement plan for the entire country.

(xiv) Water Taxi Services – MoT Officials admitted that a consultancy is necessary to work with the MoT to determine whether or not the Water Taxi Service can continue or be expanded.

(xv) Park and Ride Facilities - MoT The Ministry approached the Cabinet to introduce park-and-ride facilities throughout Trinidad and Tobago to alleviate internal and external traffic congestion and encourage increased usage of PTSC buses and water taxi services.

(xvi) CNG Conversions – MoT PTSC recently converted one bus to CNG and is close to completion in converting two (2) others. Based on the results of these conversions, the next step of the project will be determined. Burmese technicians have guaranteed that if a decision is taken by the MoT and Cabinet, the entire present fleet can be converted within eighteen (18) months.

(xvii) Internet Sales – MoT

The implementation of the internet sales system for the inter-island ferry has been postponed from January to March 2013.

(xviii) Traffic Warden System – MoWI

The first experimental phase employed 179 Traffic Wardens. There has been a demand for these wardens from the police service, schools, taxis, maxi stands, business places and Members of Parliament. A Cabinet Note was submitted in June 2012 and it is currently before PMCD to expand the unit by over 1300 new persons.


44

(xix) E-Ticketing - MoWI

The Ministry is experimenting with automatic violation detection or E-ticketing systems, which will require legislation to be bought to Parliament. E-ticketing will improve the ability to track perpetrators and administer penalties.

(xx) Development of City Gate – MoT There is dialogue between the Ministry and the management of the City Gate facility in Port of Spain. A M.O.U. is being developed with the Route Two Maxi-Taxi Association to take the management and development of the City Gate facility forward.

(xxi) Arima Bus Terminal – MoT Officials expressed that plans to run a coach service direct from Arima to Port of Spain were being undertaken. Such a service wouldopen economic spaces and provide seating facilities for the commuters.

(xxii) Passenger Ridership - MoT During the period June to September 2012, passenger ridership declined due to the school vacation (July – August) and industrial relations problems in September which adversely affected the PTSCs services.

(xxiii) Differently-Abled Transport Arrangements – MoT Twenty four (24) buses were recently procured to service the differently-abled community throughout Trinidad and Tobago. These buses operate as follows: ten (10) buses in Port of Spain, six (6) buses in San Fernando, one (1) bus in Arima, one (1) bus in Chaguanas, two (2) buses in Sangre Grande, one (1) bus in Point Fortin and three (3) buses in Tobago. Calls are accepted for pre-arranged trips and a daily service is provided. A client register of persons who require these services is also maintained by PTSC. Officials also conveyed that at present there are no PTSC Buses with toilet facilities.

(xxiv) Priority Bus Route (PBR) – MoWI With reference to the Priority Bus Route Experimental Scheme (car-pooling scheme) the officials inferred that motorists may be less attracted to utilizing this scheme. This is as a result of improvements on the highway as well as the increased police enforcement on the PBR which resulted in the declined use of the initiative after three (3) months.

(xxv) Maintenance Department – MoWI

The Highways Division comprises of the Bridges Branch, the Roads Construction Branch, the Roads Planning Branch, the Traffic Management Branch and the Highways Beautification Unit. The Roads Construction Branch has eight (8) main district offices throughout the country and there are approximately four (4) sub-district offices assigned to each district. Each of these offices comprises of equipment, trucks, backhoes, excavators, rollers and other minor equipment, the maintenance of which is under the Director of Mechanical Services. Further to this, there is a significant amount of contracting of equipment for which the function and maintenance is ensured by the Ministry.


45

REQUESTED INFORMATION

7.1 Officials of the MoT gave an undertaking to furnish the Committee with the following information:

Reference is made to your submission (pg 2) under “Expansion of Routes.” Provide details on whether these are rural versus urban routes;

I. Reference is made to your submission (pg 6) under “Passenger Ridership.” Provide details on usage in rural and urban communities for the “60+” and “Children in School Uniform” sections.

II. What efforts have been made in appealing to social conscience and goodwill of oil companies in order to assist with the development of roads, particularly in South?

III. Whether there are plans for a PTSC route from Moruga to Port of Spain?

IV. Could a second connector road in the La Brea area be included in the proposed highway to Point Fortin?

V. Whether there are plans for the introduction of a PTSC service within La Brea?

VI. In your submission (pg 22) under “San Fernando/ Point Fortin Service” it was stated that, “…Steps are being taken by the Ministry of Transport to undertake the planning and design of suitable infrastructure for berthing and terminal facilities at Point Fortin”

What are the steps being taken?

What is the current status of this project?

VII. What criteria are used when assessing whether a PTSC route is expanded or discontinued?

VIII. What criteria are used when assessing whether the bus route can be expanded? 7.2 Officials of the MoWI gave an undertaking to furnish the Committee with the following:

i. In your submission (pg 2) under “Current Road Transport Status” it was stated that, “… the steady growth in the number of vehicles that are registered locally”. As such, please

provide:

Statistics for the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s on the number of vehicles registered locally;

The current number of vehicles registered locally;

The ratio of cars to persons;

The distribution of vehicles registered locally, throughout Trinidad and Tobago;

ii. Reference is made to your submission (pg 4) under “Road Development Policy – Principal Objectives”. Provide additional information in the area of major roadways and minor roads.

iii. Whether there has been any collaborative work between the Municipal Corporations and MoWI?

iv. What efforts have been made in appealing to the social conscience and goodwill of

oil companies to assist with the development of roads particularly in South? v. In your submission (pg 1 of 21) under “Priority Bus Route Experimental Scheme” it was

stated that, “… As mentioned before, in an earlier report, “the effectiveness…..” What is the report referred to?

vi. In your submission (pg 15 of 21) it was stated that, “Two months after January….” What is the year that is being referred to?


46

ADJOURNMENT

8.1 The meeting was adjourned at 12:50 p.m. I certify that these Minutes are true and correct. Sgd

CHAIRMAN

Sgd SECRETARY

January 11, 2013


47

APPENDIX III

NOTES OF EVIDENCE


48

PRESENT Dr. James Armstrong Chairman Dr. Victor Wheeler Vice-Chairman Dr. Lincoln Douglas Member Mrs. Lyndira Oudit Member Mr. Fitzgerald Jeffrey Member Mr. Clifton De Coteau Member

Mr. Ralph Deonarine Secretary Miss Candice Skerrette Asst. Secretary Miss Candice Williams Graduate Research Asst.

ABSENT

Dr. Lester Henry Member (Excused) Mr. Kevin Ramnarine Member (Excused) Miss Alicia Hospedales Member (Excused) Dr. Tim Gopeesingh Member (Excused) Dr. Bhoendradatt Tewarie Member Mr. Collin Partap Member

9.55 a.m. Mr. Chairman: Could we call the meeting to order? Could we start please? As you are aware, it is now 9.55 a.m., so we need to decide how we are going to organize ourselves today. Actually, before we start, I do not think we met since the New Year. So, I would like to wish everyone a Happy New Year and to say that we look forward to doing some serious work this year. I am wondering how we should proceed, because we only have five minutes in order to go downstairs. So I wondering whether we should perhaps ask the group downstairs to give us another 15 minutes, so we can clear up some of this stuff here and then go downstairs. Mrs. Oudit: Some of them are now coming in actually. Mr. Chairman: Okay. Maybe what we should do is start now. Then go downstairs at about 10.15 a.m. So, if someone could perhaps ask them to hold on for a while. Mr. De Coteau: How long have they been there? Dr. Douglas: They just came. Mr. Chairman: Some Members have asked to be excused: Dr. Lester Henry, Dr. T. Gopeesingh, Dr. B. Tewarie, Miss A. Hospedales, and Mr. K. Ramnarine. They have asked to be excused. Could we quickly look at the Minutes of two meetings: one for December 7, 2012 and then we will do the one for December 14, 2012 so we can get those out of the way. Let us start with the one for December 7, 2012 and go through for any amendments. We will go through page by page. Everyone has that?

VERBATIM NOTES OF NINETEENTH MEETING HELD IN OFFICE OF THE

PARLIAMENT, TOWER D, PORT OF SPAIN INTERNATIONAL WATERFRONT CENTRE,

#1A WRIGHTSON ROAD, PORT OF SPAIN ON FRIDAY JANUARY 11, 2013


49

Dr. Wheeler: I just have the December 14, 2012 Mr. Chairman: Okay. Could we get the December 7, 2012? Page one, page two, page three—on page three under 7.3, (ii), Standing Committee and Cabinet Committee. That was not very clear to me. “Cabinet-appointed Committee of June 2010 looked at securing and expanding the GATE Committee. One of the recommendations proposed by the Committee was the establishment of a Standing Committee.” Mrs. Oudit: I think that might have been in response to a question I had raised. The question I had asked is, the document had referred to a Cabinet-appointed Committee and it was referred to a Standing Committee responsible for the review of the GATE. My question to that group was whether it was one and the same. So I think this is clarifying what it was. Mr. Chairman: Could we perhaps clarify this again, Mrs. Oudit? Are you satisfied with the way it is stated here? Mrs. Oudit: No. One was a steering committee and one was looking at the implementation. But, the records of the Minutes—the Minutes would have exactly what was stated and maybe just for clarification they can go back to Hansard itself. I can always help you with the wording on the Minutes. Mr. Chairman: It is not very clear here. Mr. De Coteau: Do you want the Minutes? Mrs. Oudit: Yes. Mr. Chairman: Anything else on pages three. The only thing that I found on page three, I thought we could perhaps have some more figures in it. It is not critical, but while I think it covers the discussion—student dropouts—that is under paragraph three, where it says if a student drops out—I know we discussed some actual figures and so on which are not included, so if we can look at that as well and see and elaborate on that. Page four? Page five, under (viii) and (ix) Requirement for GATE funded students. Here again, I felt more information was needed. “The fee structure for categories of institutions has not been standardized.”—That is fine.— “At present the fee structure/cost credit is under the consideration of the GATE Standing Committee.” I do not know. If we have to go back to this a little later on I felt it did not really— So if we can go back there again. Mrs. Oudit: Mr. Chair, in response to the earlier question, according to the Hansard, the response by Mr. Dowlat indicated that the initial inter-ministerial team was appointed in June of 2010 to review the GATE programme and the Cabinet Standing Committee was established or it was established by Cabinet in May of 2011. Mr. Chairman: So if we could add that to this for clarity. On page five, the very last two paragraphs actually. I have a note here to myself, “What then happens?”


50

“Every three (3) years institutions come up for re-registration. Once an institution is deregistered or registration lapses, it is no longer eligible for GATE funding...” What was not clear to me here really is what do you then do after that? The process, I just felt that we need to clarify that a little more. Do you reapply? What are the procedures to be followed? Page six? Page seven? Page eight? Under page eight, what is that, 21 and 22? I remembered there was some discussion with respect to St. George’s University the Pre-Med programme. We had also discussed the arrangements for funding. I think if you had O’ levels—remember that? There was some discussion on that. Mrs. Oudit: My question at the time was, as it was arranged here, are we to assume or understand that the whole programme including the Pre-Med was being funded? That was my question. The response at that time was that those persons who did not have the A’ levels did not qualify. Mr. Chairman: I think if that can be captured. In the next paragraph on performance standards there was some indication of maintenance. I think it was a GPA of 2 point something average or was it 2? But, we discussed the GPA. Can we include that here as well? Anything else on page eight? Could someone move confirmation? [Moved by Mr. Clifton De Coteau] [Seconded by Mrs. L. Oudit] Let us go on to the Minutes of December 14. Page one — Mrs. Oudit: Mr. Chair, the previous Minutes dated December 07, 2012 identified on page two, that SWMCOL, under “Other Business”, the committee was informed that SWMCOL subsequently requested an extension to December 17, 2012. Now that was from the week before. We have here, on the week of December 14, 2012 which is the next sitting of this committee 3.1 which referred to the letter requested by date November 15. But, there was a lot that took place subsequent to November 15, 2012. In fact the week just before that we referred to another letter. So I am just trying to figure out the recording side of this. How did we come back one week after to November when we had already dealt with that in the week before? There seems to be some clarification required on that one. Again, I am seeing here where point two talks about the same letter that SWMCOL subsequently requested an extension dated December 17, 2012. I think we have to be careful—some of the dates—if we use the technique of cutting and pasting some of the information. Mr. Chairman: Unfortunately, I was not at that meeting; this one on the December 14, 2012 Dr. Wheeler: What was said is that they did request an extension and the deadline was December 17, 2012 which was after the meeting being held. I do not remember a reference to the previous letter deadline being November 30, 2012 though. Maybe we should just take out 3.1. Mr. Chairman: Is that agreed? Is that agreed that we excise 3.1? [Off the record] 10.10 a.m. Mr. Chairman: Page 2? Just for clarification, under 5.1—actually, I was not at the meeting, so I am enquiring. It was agreed that we should go back to Tobago Regional Health Authority? That is what was agreed. Okay! So these are the four we will deal with. So the next occasion we will be dealing with Tobago Regional Health Authority. Okay. Fine. Page 3? Could someone move and second the minute?


51

[Confirmed by Dr. Wheeler] [Seconded by Dr. Douglas] Mr. Chairman: Matters arising. Shall we go back to December 07 and then quickly move to— Mrs. Oudit: Chair, what is that? Mr. Chairman: The meeting of December 07? Matters arising. Let us go back to December 07. Two things—one is under item 3.1, page 2, submission from Water Resource Agency was circulated to the Committee via letter December 10. Everybody got that? Dr. Douglas: Say that again, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman: We are looking at minutes of December 07. Under item 3.1, page 2, the submission from the Water Resource Agency was circulated to the Committee via a letter of December 10. All right? And under item 8.1, page 8, additional information was requested from the Ministry of Tertiary Education and Skills Training with a deadline of January 23. So we are still waiting for that information. Right? Any other matters arising from December 07? Mrs. Oudit: Mr. Chair, just as a point of note for the Committee to recognize in our documents somewhere, that PS Soom passed away because he was on this document. Mr. Chairman: Thanks. Mrs. Oudit: Who is the new PS now? Miss Skerrette: There is no PS at the moment, so no one is acting as yet. Mrs. Oudit: Because they will have to take a PS from another Ministry. Miss Skerrette: And even Soom was acting as well. Mr. Jeffrey: That Forest Park issue, I do not think you were there— Mr. Chairman: From the meeting of December 07? Mr. Jeffrey: Yes. Mr. Chairman: All right. [Crosstalk] Matters arising from the meeting of December 14. Item 3.3, page 1, it was noted that the edited drafts from the SWMCOL report, as well as the SWMCOL submissions, were circulated to the committee via a letter of January 02, 2013. Everyone got that additional information from SWMCOL which was circulated on the—all right? Mr. Jeffrey: But the one with the Forest Park matter where we were asking for the evaluation report for the basis on which they selected Forest Park as opposed to the other site, they were supposed to give us a copy of that report as well. Mr. Chairman: I think what we will need to do is to see what information they actually gave us—the additional information. They have responded and that was circulated. Mr. Jeffrey: That did not address my problem.


52

Mr. Chairman: It did not? Mr. Jeffrey: The problem with the Forest Park is that a decision was taken to select Forest Park. I want to know on what basis that was done. There was an evaluation report they had and it was not submitted at all. Mr. Chairman: What we will have to do is to look at that when we are reviewing the SWMCOL report and if you are not satisfied with the information provided, then what we will do is request the Secretariat to revert SWMCOL to clarify whatever you need to have clarified. I am just wondering whether we should suspend now, go downstairs and then can we come back for a while or we will—after? Dr. Wheeler: I guess depending on what time we finish. Mr. Chairman: What time we finish? All right, so if we can— Mrs. Oudit: Wait, I just want to make one clarification in the minutes here. The Port Authority, the management and administration was not from 2008. I think the question was 2005. The determination of work programme, 5.1, when we checked Port Authority—I had requested Port Authority—it was from 2005 to 2012. Mr. Chairman: Okay! So if we can just quickly talk about—we are going to be looking today at the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure, Ministry of Transport, so what I would suggest is that we suspend now, go down and have the meeting with them. Depending on what time we finish, we will then consider after that meeting whether we want to resume to primarily looking at the ninth report. Okay? This meeting is now suspended. 10.20 a.m.: Meeting suspended. 10.25 a.m.: Meeting resumed. OFFICIALS FROM THE MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT AND MINISTRY OF WORKS

Mr. Brian Wannette Deputy General Manager, Operations, PTSC Mr. Harrypersad Bisram Deputy General Manager, Finance, PTSC Mr. Gobin Harrypersad Legal Advisor, Ministry of Transport Mr. Rupert Ramharack Organizational Performance Management Specialist,

Ministry of Transport Ms. Camile Hypolite-Ferdinand Executive Manager (Ag.), Finance & Administration,

Port Authority of T&T Ms. Sharon Taylor Project Director, Water Taxis Services, NIDCO Mr. Joseph Kazmarak Customer Service Coordinator, Water Taxi, NIDCO Mr. Roger Ganesh Director of Highways, Ministry of Works and Infrastructure Mr. Adande Piggott Traffic Engineer, Ministry of Works and Infrastructure Mr. Roger Israel Deputy Permanent Secretary,

Ministry of Works and Infrastructure Mr. Isaac James Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Works and Infrastructure Ms. Verna Johnson Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Transport Mr. Leon Grant Deputy CEO, Trinidad and Tobago Inter-Island

Transportation Co. Ltd., Port Authority of Trinidad and Tobago

Mr. Ronald Forde General Manager, PTSC Mr. Colin Lucas General Manager, Port Authority of T&T


53

Mr. Chairman: Good morning everyone. First, I would like to apologize for the late start. We were engaged in some other discussions and that ran a little late, so my apologies for that. This is the meeting of the Joint Select Committee established to enquire into and report to Parliament on Ministries (Group 2) and the Statutory Authorities and State Enterprises falling under our purview. Today, we are going to be looking at the national transportation system of Trinidad and Tobago and we have officials of the Ministry of Transport and the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure. What I will do is ask the members of the Ministry to introduce yourselves and after that we will introduce the Members of the Committee. So, where do we start? Could you kindly put on your mic when you speak and identify yourselves? Where do we start? [Officials of the Ministry of Transport and Ministry of Works and Infrastructure introduce themselves] [Members of the Committee introduce themselves] Mr. De Coteau: I am the Member of Parliament for Moruga/Tableland and I will want to emphasize what we call the landslip capital of Trinidad and Tobago because I would indeed be dealing with the infrastructure people on this. Mr. Chairman: What we would like to start with is to have a brief overview of the operations of the national transportation system and the functioning within the Ministry of Transport, the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure. So who can give us just a brief overview of how the organization is structured, how it works? Permanent Secretary? 10.30 a.m. Ms. Johnson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank you for this opportunity to be able to come to this Parliament to be able to share with you and the general community, information concerning the operations of the Ministry of Transport. The Ministry of Transport would have been formed as a result of the realignment of the Ministries sometime in July 2011. At the Ministry of Transport, we are responsible for major issues relating to sea transport, as well as land transport, and that is why the team comprised of the PTSC—Public Transport Service Corporation—as well as representatives from the Port Authority of Trinidad and Tobago. We also have with us the officers from the Water Taxi Service. Our primary objective is to ensure that we are able to provide the population of Trinidad and Tobago with, more or less what I would deem, an efficient transportation system. We have also had the responsibility with us of some committees which fall under the purview of the Ministry of Transport. Those would include the air services agreement it also includes the National Road Safety Council, and we also are responsible for a tribunal for maxi-taxi issues or issues where maxi-taxi operators feel aggrieved; that also falls under the ambit of the Ministry of Transport. Mr. Chairman: Would the other PS in the other Ministry like to make any comments at this time or? Mr. James: I will ask Mr. Roger Israel to, because— Mr. Israel: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Ministry of Works, formerly the Ministry of Works and Transport, now the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure, has traditionally, as far back as I think anybody could remember, been responsible for the transport infrastructure of the two islands originally. Because of that, there are a lot of transport issues one might argue, transport (infrastructure) issues, that obviously still remain within the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure. For example, the accessibility of any area might be determined by the state of bridges, roads, landslips, drainage and so on, all these things have residual—how do I say it?—portfolio items still residing in the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure. The realignment of the Ministry to first


54

remove the aspect of transport to another Ministry in 2011, and then the removal of drainage in 2012, has, of course, presented all who work in this area with some challenge because there are still overlapping responsibilities. Having said that however, the documents that we had submitted to the Committee give some idea of the vast range of responsibilities that we have and I will keep them very simple and sum them up as far as transport is concerned. Remember the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure deals with other things beyond transport. So highways and the Highways Act, the Minister of Works and Infrastructure is still responsible for several items including items under the Highways Act. He is still responsible for several items under the Motor Vehicles and Road Transport Act, and there are a few dichotomies in there as well. So the way we interpret it and the way we proceed on a daily basis is this: we are responsible for maintenance and upgrade, building of all road and transport infrastructure. Secondly, we plan, project, design and implement the construction of such infrastructure. We also deal with traffic management which is part of the management of that infrastructure. Traffic management is about making the most efficient use of your transport infrastructure. So traffic management is one aspect of management. There are other aspects of management which include legislation and so on, and again, these are shared between Ministries. So there we have, we build, plan, we maintain and develop, and we manage and control. Hence, for example, we develop and implement traffic schemes. We plan new link roads and get them constructed and these are just examples. So, in a broad sense, this is what the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure does where transport is concerned. Thank you. Mr. Chairman: Thank you very much. Dr. Wheeler. Dr. Wheeler: Yes, thank you. Good morning. Following on what you said about the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure, the documents submitted on page 3 point out that there is a Highways Division and then there is a PURE Unit: the Programme for Upgrading Roads Efficiency. Could you say if the employees of this PURE Unit are employees of the Ministry of Works, meaning public servants, or is this a unit containing contract officers that are not employees of the Ministry of Works? Mr. Ganesh: Thank you very much. With respect to the staffing of the PURE Unit, 100 per cent of that staff comprise of contract employees. Some of them came from the Ministry of Works, Highways Division, they are no longer with us directly but on contract to this particular unit. It is a project management unit, and as such, all officers are on contract for a specific period. Dr. Wheeler: But are they employees of the Ministry of Works or is the unit separate from the Ministry of Works, or is it a unit that the Ministry of Works employs or contracts to do work for it? Mr. Ganesh: The unit is a project unit of the Highways Division under the Ministry of Infrastructure, and as such the workers are in direct contact with the senior officers for the Highways Division and the Ministry as a whole. Dr. Wheeler: Okay, thank you. Now, I see that the function of this unit is predominant project management design organization for the implementation of road infrastructure projects, and below that, you have “supporting agencies”. NIDCO, which it says “partners with the Ministry of Works in providing procurement project and contract management services”; and also NIPDEC which seems to be doing the same thing. Is it that the services that are being provided by NIDCO and NIPDEC are services that PURE does not provide or is it that the PURE Unit provides some of these services and


55

NIPDEC and NIDCO just assist them? I am just trying to clarify how these three organizations work together to provide a service. Mr. Ganesh: Okay. Primarily, NIDCO and NIPDEC provide procurement services and project management services which are not inherent in the PURE Unit. PURE Unit consists of basically design engineers, project engineers and project managers, but NIDCO and NIPDEC mostly do 100 per cent of the procurement of contracts for the particular units. Dr. Wheeler: NIDCO and NIPDEC, are they agencies of the Ministry of Works? Because who really do these two units report to if you are going to be contracting someone from within the Ministry or outside the Ministry to provide procurement services? Mr. Ganesh: We have a MOU with NIPDEC and we also have a MOU with NIDCO for the provision of these services: procurement and project management, and of course, they fall under different agencies from Ministries. Dr. Wheeler: Okay. How do you determine which projects you will access services from, NIPDEC as opposed to NIDCO? Mr. Ganesh: Both agencies have specific skills and specific expertise. NIDCO basically was set up for major projects; NIPDEC, on the other hand, was basically a procurement agency for the Highways Division for the PURE Unit. As such, we will consult with NIDCO, for instance the project to Point Fortin and other major infrastructure projects where they provide services for project management as indicated, and also for some design services as well. NIPDEC, of course, is a purely procurement unit. Dr. Wheeler: Okay, thanks. If I may be allowed to go on to something else which is the sea bridge transportation. Now, this question relates to—I think Mr. Grant might be able to answer this if I am not mistaken. We have a new hospital built in Tobago and it is still being fully operationalized I just want to ask: In the past, there have been challenges with trying, if, for example, a unit goes down and needs repairs or service, there have been challenges in the past in trying to get equipment brought up on the boat, or even space for personnel to come up. Does the Port Authority have any specific arrangement where they facilitate the ability of urgent supplies and personnel coming up to do repairs on the hospital? Mr. Grant: Yes we do. We are in touch with all the relevant agencies. We have notified them in the past that whenever there is a crisis or there is an emergency, they can contact us and we will facilitate them as best as we could. Dr. Wheeler: When you say facilitate as best, is there—[Interruption] Mr. Grant: Facilitate in terms of the time and date that they would like to travel. Dr. Wheeler: Okay. The only other thing I would like to ask, Mr. Chairman, is with respect to the GPS system for the buses that I understand the process is in train to have GPS on all the buses, how far have you reached in this system? Mr. Forde: Through you, Mr. Chairman, we have installed GPS devices on 375 buses thus far. We have also started to establish the command centre. It is outfitted with all the equipment, and at present, we could locate on the monitors where each unit is on the road network. Dr. Wheeler: Would you be able to say when—I understand that there is also a plan to have commuters know the expected time of arrival of buses. How far away are you in that aspect of it so that when someone goes to the terminal, they will know, okay, the buses are going to arrive in 10, 15, 20 minutes?


56

Mr. Forde: We are now about to go to the second phase of the GPS. The passenger information display system would be about the third phase so we have a timeline of about the next year—the next two years, we should reach to that stage where we could have the passenger information display system at all the different depots, that passengers could see the arrival and departure times of the buses. Dr. Wheeler: Okay, thank you. Mr. Chairman: If I can just follow up on that. I notice, yes, that you are going to have the GPS installed and so on, what I could not determine is in what way does that really assist you with general scheduling of the buses arriving. I mean, it tells you where it is. What is the link between that now and having a general schedule where passengers can know that at 10.15, I can go to this location or whatever? I could not make the connection there really. Mr. Forde: When a bus is dispatched, what the GPS will provide, through you, Mr. Chairman, is the information in real time of where each unit is. Mr. Chairman: Right. Mr. Forde: Right. We could also determine where there are traffic jams on the road, accidents and other obstacles that could delay the system. That information will now assist us in planning the schedules in a more efficient manner. Through the direct information that we will have through the command centre, we will now be able to relay to our commuters at the different depots in real time that we will be five minutes late or we are on time. Mr. Chairman: But that is assuming that you have a system that is well managed, that is in place. In other words, a bus leaves a certain point at this time, the next one at that time, the next one at that time, so even apart from it whether you have GPS or not, it means that you need to have a system in place where the buses are leaving at a particular depot or location on time. The impression that one has is that that is not in place. For instance, I am aware of the fact, for instance, someone who works with me would go to City Gate or wherever, and the bus is supposed to leave at a certain time, sometimes it is half an hour late, sometimes an hour late, so that if even you have a GPS and that system is not working, it does not help you. That is what I am not— 10.45 a.m. Mr. Forde: A bus would be delayed for different reasons. A bus would be scheduled to leave at say, four o’clock, and the bus will go to the first line before it goes to the passenger queue. When it goes to the first line, we might unearth that the brakes are faulty and safety is priority to the PTSC. So, we will now have to delay to do some repairs to those brakes before the bus leaves. What the GPS will assist with is, we would know exactly where all the bottle necks are on the system. We do have a scheduling programme right now. It is displayed on the platform. So, the schedules are displayed on the platform, but for different reasons we may not keep the schedule, because a bus might go to Chaguanas and it has to come back in a certain time, it is engaged in traffic on the highway and that would also help to delay the schedule. Mr. Chairman: You are satisfied that you have a reasonable, well-working schedule system? Mr. Forde: Yeah, and the schedule is displayed for all the passengers and commuters to see. It is visible on the platform.


57

Mr. Chairman: Okay. Thank you. Mrs. Oudit? Sorry? Dr. Douglas: Mr. Chairman, I will like to follow up on the question. Mr. Chairman: Okay. Go ahead. Dr. Douglas: Mr. Forde, there are things that you have immediate control over like whether a bus is working or not, and there are things that you have control over, but not immediately, like the condition of traffic as the case might be. Your previous dialogue was a little troubling to me in that before it comes to the passenger line you are now checking to see if it is working? Is that what you are suggesting to me? Mr. Forde: Every bus that leaves does a first-line check. Dr. Douglas: Yeah, but you are checking it when it is about to leave, right? That is what you are saying? Mr. Forde: It must pass over the first line. Mr. Chairman: Yeah, but my question is why are you checking a bus when it is now about to leave? That is my concern about your operation, because if you check the bus when it is about to leave, unless you tell me there is no other time to check the bus, except when it is about to leave, but I would assume that when a bus is leaving “it done check ah ready.” Mr. Forde: Yeah. Buses are checked on a daily basis, but mechanical devises are such that things happen at short notice. So, the first-line check is a very simple check where we check the brakes, make sure the brakes are functional, the water, the oil; a very basic check. Dr. Douglas: I understand that. I am just pointing out, to me, the problem I see is that you will continue to have that problem if you check it when it is about to leave, because when it is about to leave you already scheduled the time that the bus is supposed to be leaving the terminus at ten o’clock and on the way to pick up passengers, you are now checking to see if it “wukkin.” Mr. Forde: I think the “about to leave” probably has tied us up there. Just before, like a half hour before it is supposed to leave. Dr. Douglas: It is still further causing me pain with that explanation, because I cannot conceive that. Probably you should check it when it comes back in. “So, when it is about to leave you done check it ah ready.” Anyhow, be that as it may, the other idea of things that you do not have much control over. Who is responsible for—like traffic jam and solving traffic problems in Trinidad? Because I do not see any way that you could guarantee me a traffic schedule unless we solve those bigger issues of what is happening on the roads in Trinidad and Tobago. So, I want to know what is the overall plan of transport for moving people or solving the issue, the problem that is traffic? I assume that you agree that traffic is a problem in Trinidad; the problem that is traffic in Trinidad. Mr. Forde: Well, there are discussions going on now and there are plans going on now to establish a park and ride in San Fernando at the Brian Lara Stadium car park that should assist. The Ministry is also looking at a high capacity lane from Chaguanas to Port of Spain that could also assist in reducing the traffic. So, if we get much more people to park and ride with the PTSC, we will reduce the amount of traffic on the roads in Trinidad and Tobago.


58

Mrs. Oudit: Mr. Chair? Okay. Good morning and thank you all again for coming. It is my belief that a transportation system is a tool of development. An efficient transportation system as you all would probably appreciate more than most people actually aids or hinders the development process. Having said that, it disturbed me when I saw that your transportation plan actually started in 1967 and I am referring to the document entitled: The Status of the National Transportation Study. So, having started in 1967, the genesis of which never saw light of day by the admission of the first paragraph. I would like to record with your permission, Mr. Chair, a statement directly out of this document, so that the national community could probably be a little more aware of what is taking place in 2012 or 2013. I am quoting here from this document for the national community. It says: At this time transportation infrastructure investment decisions are being taken in the absence of an updated and credible national transportation plan. These decisions run the very real risk of having been conceived and implemented in isolation from each other and from any identifiable overall policy or strategy. That to me is confirmation of what the majority of the population of this country would have felt or experienced living as Dr. Douglas referred to at the transportation, the congestion. What I find very heartening on the other hand, is that this admission comes from a series of documents that was presented here today. Mr. Israel, when you made your opening comments, you said that the overlapping of the responsibilities and the coming together presented challenges—I am using your words—by the overlapping of the responsibilities. I would like to offer, Sir, that it is the evaluation of this very same document that your team presented, which supports the very rationale for the putting together and the merging of agencies—it is clear that if from 1967 to 2011, the national transportation system did not come into being. It says here that: the work of the consultants Parsons Brinckerhoff; the report was not accepted. It was not deemed credible and it was rejected, that was the output of your comprehensive national study in 2005. I am reading from this very report. I would like to say that this is indicative—these documents presented here are indicative of the scope of work that is required for Trinidad and Tobago to have an efficient transportation system, it augers well that the decision was, in fact, taken in 2011 to incorporate several agencies, almost an inter-ministerial effort. I see Mr. Lucas here with a long standing experience in port authority. I see members here from Highways Division. I see a number of branches coming together. I would like to say that despite a very poor showing at the start of a transportation plan, I would like to say that based on the documents I have seen here today, we have started. I was quite taken aback. These documents here point to something happening, and in my own mind I believe that there is some level of positive, that is showing itself even in these documents, and I think it augers well for the national community and for the long-awaited transportation plan. That is just my preamble. So, if you would just bear with me, Mr. Chair. On page two of your document you referred to a number of vehicles. You have current road transport status and you gave a statement. A statement was made: the steady growth of the number of vehicles that are registered locally. Throughout the document I saw statements of that nature, however, for the Committee’s benefit I would have preferred if we saw statistics to tell us, 70s, 80s and 90s. If anybody can tell me here now, what is our current vehicle number in this country? What is our ratio of cars to persons? How is it distributed? I think that would lend itself to a more credible dissection of where your roads are most needed, the mapping that is required to do more roads in a particular geographical location. I saw a lot of statements of that nature and I would prefer to see more statistics; that is one. On page four of your document, your road development policy, and again, throughout your entire document refers to highways especially along the East/West Corridor. I would like to see as well a


59

little more information on the major roadways and minor roads, but a lot of major roads that are in Trinidad and Tobago most especially in Trinidad are actually used oftentimes in more cases than highways. The major roads, for example, I come from South and so I am thinking—I have not seen anything here from Claxton Bay into Marabella; from Marabella into Gulf City; Gulf City straight down into Oropouche Junction; that is a major artery. We have hundreds of thousands of commuters on a daily basis that use this almost—and these are two lanes of cars, one lane going and one lane coming. So, you have—this has always been. I see the majority of the work that is referred to in this entire document refers to highways along the East/West Corridor. Coming out of that my question is, do you have a plan for a North/South priority bus route, because you make reference to the priority bus route for the East/West Corridor. Do you have plans for a North/South priority bus route which is to cater for a lot of the buses or trucks; transport vehicles? On page seven, you identified methods for alleviating the traffic congestion and I think this is what Dr. Douglas was asking about; point three and point four. Point three refers to off-street parking and transit facilities. I think as they say, since Moses was a little boy we have been hearing of parking facilities and facilities of that nature, and yet we are seeing this is a proposed method for traffic congestion. The national community is totally on board with the idea that you need more parking facilities. Recently, there was a situation in Port of Spain where the business community reacted to wrecking of vehicles and the business community has a point in saying that if you cannot park to shop, then how do we generate economic activity especially in the down-town areas? I am pleased to see again, probably for over a period of years, the proposal for parking and transit facilities; that is good. I have a particular interest in traffic signals and I see point number four, signalization schemes for your traffic lights. When the traffic system as you say was started in the 1990s, your own admission here in this document says: that over 65 per cent need upgrading or physical equipment and signal timing. I think someone—I wish if this team in particular could go down to major traffic lights and just stand over a 24-hour period and see. If you have 100 cars going in a main road and you have two coming out from a side road, how is it that to this date we do not have a system where the majority of time is put on the lights where you have the majority of cars? 11.00 a.m. So you have vehicles, and I can tell you—again I am going to refer to south—you are coming from Marabella; you reach the cross-crossing; you have Pleasantville traffic lights; you come right after that, you have the traffic lights at Gulf City, major. If you come now just a few hundred metres again, you have Dumfries traffic light. You come straight further down, a new one installed for PriceSmart; then you go further down and you have a series of traffic lights and at no time, if you pass there three o'clock in the morning, you can be on the major roadway and you have a red light, no cars. It is red light, a major road and no one sees to the timing to allow for more vehicles on the major roadway to pass for a longer time. That has been a peeve of motorists throughout. I am referring to the south, south-western in particular, area. Mr. Chair, through you, page 8. Mr. Chairman: I was wondering whether you would have them respond to some of these critical points so that we do not lose—


60

Mrs. Oudit: Instead of breaking to go back and forth, there are two more. On page 8 of the document, for the last two years in particular and whenever there is road repair or anything of that nature, especially along the highways, one of the things I am not sure about is the policemen. I hear the comments about traffic and the traffic police. I am not sure if the highway police or traffic police understand that the use of the shoulder, with police guidance, can be used. If you are doing work on one lane of the highway, then it means you have removed, almost, one lane. It comes down to one lane on a major highway and one of the things we would like to see is that there is synchronization of the work on highways so that we use the shoulders where possible. That is something that you may not have control over, but in your discussions with the police— Again on page 9, you made reference to your movement of goods vehicles, trucks, point 9, and again I ask the question: Is there a plan for a priority bus route along the north-south? That came directly out of that and the use of the trucks. I go to page 21 of your document and on page 21—I have it here as—it was with a series of tables—page 21 of 21; and the very last three words there refer your entire document to the East-West Corridor and I would again like to stress that it seems as if the national transportation plan or plans have generally focused on the East-West Corridor. I think it is far too long a misconception that the East-West Corridor is the hub or the only area that requires a lot of attention. I plead that a lot of north-south traffic, similar to the east-west—you have done a tremendous job; that work that was done along the East-West Corridor and that is phenomenal; it widened the area; it gave emphasis and it opened up a lot of communities. Again, I would like to see north-south as well as the southeast and the southwest districts. These are again, reflective of your own document, almost a neglected part of the country where your national transportation plans never included southeast southwest and north-south to a large extent. The last one, Mr. Chairman: there was a section under the examination of the traffic warden system. I am heartened. I have seen this in operation. The implementation of your traffic warden system starting from March 2011 must be commended. I applaud the whole programme and I hope to see it expanded. They have been doing a phenomenal job and I think that is excellent. The laws of Trinidad and Tobago: you have one point there where it came to your laws, where the fine is just $500 for not obeying. I would like to suggest that your legislative team look at it and make a recommendation; that you actually increase the fine. It is not enough when it is just $500 for not adhering to the instructions given by your traffic wardens. On your PTSC documents, gentlemen and ladies, I do not see any work done for the expansion of the routes in Trinidad. I have seen all projected for Trinidad. The only ones that were actually done referred to Scarborough; six routes in Scarborough were the only ones reflected as being done. You have roughly forty-something routes projected to start in March 2013. I would have hoped that we had actually completed some of the routes in Trinidad as against all done in Tobago, notwithstanding Dr. Wheeler must be very pleased. Again, the document does not go into details for identifying rural versus urban. I would have liked to see, especially in your passenger ridership, referring to age 60 and children in school uniform, it gives a lump sum figure for children and 60-plus; but I would like to see usage in rural versus urban communities so that we can actually trend our map against the need for the services. Those are my comments and questions. Mr. Chairman: Who would respond? Mr. Israel: I would suggest that the Director of Highways respond specifically to the document that has most of the comments that you made. I would like to enlighten you, however, because you may be


61

misinterpreting some of the things that have been submitted. For example, in the 1967 National Transportation Plan, it is not that it was not complete. It was completed in 1967 as a design. It was designed to cover a period of 20 years during which time you would prepare for a new plan or an upgrade of the old plan and most of the development that we did during those 20 years from 1967 to the early 1980s came from that template. In fact, up to now most of the decisions that have been taken in terms of new road infrastructure came from that plan, so it would not be accurate to say that we did not have a plan. The problem is, however—and I have to say this as a precursor to the director's comments—that there are two regimes for planning in the country. There is the regime of the technical person, the technocrat as they like to call them and there is the regime of the policy maker. The problem is that these two are often not in sync. So, at the level of the technocrat, there are many things that we have recommended, studied, designed that should be implemented. One of those would have been the National Transportation Study Update 1982, but it took 20 years before we could bring it into being; not because we did not know that it needed to be done, but because of the change in policymakers and each policymaker or policymaker group who has come in have plans of their own which have nothing to do with the plans that would have been developed at the level of the technocrat. So you have to bear in mind that the disconnect between scientific structured planning and actual implementation comes from the disconnect between the technocrat work and the level of the policymaker, with all due respect. Mrs. Oudit: Explaining that is fine. At this committee stage it is understood that there are discrepancies and all of those things. My point was that in light of all of that, despite all of that, what I found was heartening, was the fact that there was that admission in this document. Mr. Israel: I will put you on to the Director of Highways now to address the specific questions that you asked. Mr. Ganesh: Thank you very much. With respect to the concerns raised with the lack of development as you suggested in the south areas, from the document that we submitted with respect to road development policy and some of the objectives, we did highlight—of course we have already gotten Cabinet approval to proceed with the highway from San Fernando to Point Fortin. We have also raised Cabinet approval for the highway from San Fernando to Princes Town; Princes Town to Rio Claro and Rio Claro to Mayaro. That is ongoing right now, designs, and very soon you will see in the newspapers a request for proposals for design/finance and construct mechanism for this particular highway. In addition to that, feasibility studies for a highway from San Fernando to Mayaro—San Fernando to Mayaro encompasses all those segments—and a highway from Princes Town to Moruga, where we will do a complete feasibility study for that highway. Already we have Cabinet approval for that and that will be progressing in this fiscal year. In addition to that, of course, we have the upgrade of the Rivulet Road from the Couva Interchange going into Point Lisas, which you know is basically the heartland of our energy industries. This particular route up to this morning was discussed with the hon. Minister—the Minister of Energy and our Minister of Infrastructure—that this will be the first smart highway, not only in Trinidad, but also in the Caribbean, in Latin America and South America. A smart highway means that we have active control signs. It will be from the interchange into Point Lisas. We will be monitoring emissions; we will be monitoring traffic congestion; we will be monitoring waste of vehicles; we will be able to change the speed limit to facilitate faster movement on the road. It will be controlled by civilians’ cameras with a control room in the NGC compound where we can detect any threat of


62

security for any other vehicles. So this will be a very, very smart highway as I suggested and construction of this highway is due to start in this fiscal year. Of course, in addition to that, along the East-West Corridor, as we indicated—Cumuto to Sangre Grande—we have already gotten Cabinet approval to proceed with that construction and the first phase of that will be from Wallerfield to Sangre Grande. In addition to that, we have a highway plan for Sangre Grande to Toco. It is not being given priority, but we have approval by Cabinet for this particular highway and feasibility studies will start very soon on this. Of course, we must talk about the link from Chaguaramas to Port of Spain, the causeway as we know it. That will be undertaken through a feasibility study. We have a pre-feasibility study done already. It is insufficient, so we are embarking on a detailed feasibility study for that road. However, that will take more than, probably 24 months to do a detailed feasibility study, traffic analysis, cost benefit analysis and also traffic planning before we can proceed further with that. Mrs. Oudit: I thank you, Mr. Ganesh, but I just want the major roads as well. I know somewhere in between all of that there is some attention being given to the major roads, not just the highways. Mr. Ganesh: Definitely. Now the major roads basically are the primary links throughout the country and for economic development to take there must be properly designed highways. I am sure from being in south, you will recognize that the Nap-Mayaro Road or the Southern Main Road were not really designed; they evolved over time. They were tracks. In fact, the Nap-Mayaro Road is one of the oldest road in Trinidad. It was a track used by the Amerindians. After the course of time, it was paved and developed and development took place around this road. It was never engineered as such. It has poor geometrics, poor drainage and, of course, instability. There are a number of landslips. I know the Member of Parliament for the area will ask questions on landslips, but, again, the reason for that is that it was never properly designed and you will have numerous failures. That is the reason why we are designing a first-class highway of international standard to Point Fortin and of course from Princes Town to Moruga. The local roads, of course, those are arterials that will bring major traffic to the highways. We have a programme through the PURE Unit where we upgrade these routes. You will see that we did resurfacing; we did widening; you will see we are doing upgrade to the infrastructure, drainage infrastructure, retaining walls and also traffic management measures. We have started that already. So it complements the major programmes under the Highways Division, the PURE Unit. Primarily that is the reason why we set up the PURE Unit, so that it could complement, in a short to medium term, the deficiencies in the operations of the highways division. That basically will come, of course, with funding most of the neglected areas and the deficiencies in the network will be addressed. Mr. Chairman: Mr. Ganesh, if I can get some quick clarification. Mrs. Oudit talked about the emphasis on the east-west corridor, for instance and you have indicated a number of—on your page 4 in fact—other projects where you can have a significant expenditure. I am wondering. How do you determine the priorities in terms of road development? 11.15 a.m. We know there is no national spatial development plan and my understanding of road development, highway development, very often, is within the context of your settlement structure which we do not have at this time, in fact, it is dated; how do you prioritize, really, what is the next highway or the next road that you are going to—it is something at the level of this unit or is it at the policy level that you were told, “Well, look, this is what’s to be done”? That is the first question.


63

The second is—if my memory serves me well, I believe that there was a national transportation study that was done that has never ever been released. Is that correct? Mr. Ganesh: Yes, that is correct. Mr. Israel: The hon. Member, Mrs. Oudit, referred to it when we gave the status on the national transportation study. That study is the same one. It was never officially released because it was never accepted—but that is very recent, that would have been 2008. Mr. Chairman: The question I asked about how do you—you have a number of highways, roads, extensions and so on that you are dealing with here, how is this determined? Where did this come from? Mr. Israel: Sorry, I know my comrade here will want to answer it, but I want to put a rider on it again. Remember what I had suggested before and this is, if you like, a qualifier to everything that is said; there are two tiers of decision-making and planning within the system. At the level of the technocrat there is a lot of proposals that are made, and these go up and must be approved by Cabinet for implementation even in the absence of an overall national transportation study. So the most we can do at this level is propose, and we have proposed several things, including the need for a national transportation study, for example. But in the absence of that what could happen, and I say this very cautiously, is that you may receive an instruction from the level of the policymaker to pursue a certain road link or highway. And we have to analyze it as best we could and so that may be, in the scheme of things, it is not the priority that should be pursued, but that little tug of war often is resolved one way or the other and not necessarily in the interest of the public, in my opinion. Mr. Chairman: So the policy decision will prevail over the empirical—[Interruption] Mr. Israel: The policy decision always prevails. Mrs. Oudit: Before you go on I just want to ask you, so then this list of highway proposals here, if you, Mr. Israel, had your way, would these roads have been included for projects? Mr. Israel: I have to answer that in two ways. First of all, I am not intimately involved in the planning of the Highways Division so it would be a better question for Mr. Ganesh. However, at the time that we did the national transportation study, at least we were doing it, remember it was aborted and only half the money was paid because we were very dissatisfied with the progress of the consultant—we prepared a wish list. Now that had to be treated as a preliminary wish list. It is not a wish list that could have been justified by all the numbers and all the cost benefits, but if you look at it, instinctively, like you would have, as any driver would look at, you would see where there are needs and we do have such a list, and a lot of these things come out from that list, but the list itself was never officially adopted. Mr. Chairman: Sorry, Mr. Ganesh, you wanted to say anything else? Mr. Ganesh: Well, Mr. Israel basically answered, I think, your two questions, but continuing with the questions raised by the hon. Mrs. Oudit, I would like to continue, of course, with respect of the questions. Mrs. Oudit: Sure. Mr. Ganesh: Now, you did indicate, of course, a priority bus route to south. Only recently we met with the Land Settlement Agency (LSA), and they have really began documenting all the squatters


64

on the bus route, on the train line in particular, the old train line, throughout the country, not only in the east-west corridor but going to Marabella, going to San Fernando, going to Corinth, going to Rio Claro and to Mayaro, and we have decided and prioritized on where we would be developing these old right-of-ways for highway development. In fact, I have already sent that to the LSA and to, of course, the Commissioner of State Lands so that we could begin taking charge or taking control back of our reserve, where there are a number of squatters. On just one leg alone we have as much as 3,000 squatters living on the railway reserve. Mrs. Oudit: So that would be the existing rail tracks that ran through the sugar estates, straight up? Mr. Ganesh: That is the existing reserve that the train ran on. Mrs. Oudit: All right. Good. Mr. Ganesh: So to answer the question, in the Claxton Bay area and Marabella area, as you know, there is a complete new village going through the Marabella reserve. A significant social impact, negative impact would result when we try to acquire or take control of our lands, but we have started the process, nevertheless, and, of course, that will answer some of the questions with respect to local roads and in the local environment; what we are doing to develop those roads to supplement, of course, and to act in connection with the highway development. Mrs. Oudit: It would be remiss of me if I did not identify from the Petrotrin area, the Pointe a Pierre roundabout, straight into the Gulf View Link Road area, if there is a widening of the lanes as a suggestion, because it is just two lanes and you are feeding an entire refinery, as well as several hundreds small communities and some very big ones, Marabella included, San Fernando and the suburban areas, along that route. Mr. Ganesh: Well, we have already designed an interchange for that Marabella roundabout area, together with, what we call, a jug handle at the Cross-Crossing Tarouba Link Road to eliminate that traffic light there, and, of course, the widening. Those projects as indicated would be implemented by the PURE unit. Mrs. Oudit: Any time frame for that? Mr. Ganesh: Depending on funding, of course, it could be done or should be done within three years for those areas, but Marabella, the Cross-Crossing area and Tarouba area, those are very, very focused areas of the Highways Division. Mrs. Oudit: Thank you very much. Mr. Ganesh: You also raised a question with respect to the intersections, traffic light intersections, and why it is, sometimes, in the middle of the night you have to wait more than 3/4 minutes when there are no vehicles around the various legs of the intersection. Most of our lights, if not all, are controlled by what we call—we have a small computer in the controller that would regulate the time, but hooked up to that are attenuators on the roadway that will tell and detect how many vehicles are in each leg. Again, most of the times these lines are destroyed; not only destroyed, but they go into disrepair because of utility works that take place on our reserve. We do not really have control, sometimes, of where WASA will be or TSTT or T&TEC, but when they do go on our roads, they do destroy and sometime damage some of the infrastructure, and we have to “re-get” to it physically to repair it. But, again, we have almost 2,000 facilities—over 2,000


65

facilities throughout the country, and we have already contracted more staff to deal with the situation where we have disrepair so that we can get reports and repair them on time. Mrs. Oudit: So we could also look at the elimination of some of those lights and it would free up a lot. I am sure that is part of your assessment that will be done because, clearly, those lights have outlasted their purpose. Mr. Ganesh: There is a programme to replace the old installation, the old lights, as you call them, with new modern lights, with controllers, with, of course, attenuators as well. Mr. Chairman: Mr. Ganesh, I just want to make sure I am hearing you correctly; are you saying that because of the increase in the density of some settlements, as may be caused by squatters and working through the LSA, that access roads are being improved in order to accommodate that? Mr. Ganesh: No. No. Mr. Chairman: Okay. Could you—I misunderstood. Mr. Ganesh: What we are trying to do is basically protect our assets, our road reserve assets. Even though the old Trinidad Government Railway Reserve really lies under the jurisdiction of the Commissioner of State Lands, it is an asset, a viable asset for road development and expansion, and over the years, in fact, since the disuse of the railing, we have allowed it to fall into the hands of squatters—a lot of squatters on these reserve. East-West Corridor; basically, we took back, because we built the bus route from Port of Spain to Arima, but between Arima and Sangre Grande there are a number of squatters on that leg, and, also, there are a number of squatters on the leg from Arima to Cumuto, but we are taking control back of those areas together with LSA and, of course, they will be used for road development within the local areas. Mr. De Coteau: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I want to make this very bold statement, that the longevity in the political life of an elected Member of Parliament is greatly determined by the efficiency of work and infrastructure, and some of these deliverable Ministries, and I get the impression that based on the state of inertia operating between dead slow and stop that you all help to shorten the shelf life of a politician. I am saying this—and it is a hypothesis of mine, it is not based on any kind of empirical research—I get the impression that there is no proper supervision. There is a lot of lackadaisical approach, re: our roads. I get the impression there is no preventative maintenance. I spent 46 years in education and if you have TTUTA on your back you would know that as a school supervisor you have to ensure that the schools are in a state of readiness for the opening of the school term. I am saying this because I ask; where are the road supervisors? Are they driving in the sky or are they driving on the roads? Are they driving over the same potholes that I am driving? You are telling me and I am going to bring this down to reality check, because there seem to be a real disconnect. I am using the term, I think, by Mr. Forde or Mr. Israel—and Mr. Forde said that the first priority of PTSC is safety, and I am asking if there is any first priority of Works and Infrastructure. I have made continuous appeal—and I am giving this case now of Moruga/Tableland, the Member of Parliament, the area—and I should be guided, Mr. Israel, where there are supposed to be 476 landslips in Trinidad, there might be more now, increased from the last since, and in the Moruga/Tableland


66

constituency there are approximately 200 and something, on the Moruga Road there are 93, and that is on the main roads, Works roads. Then we have the combination, the deteriorating roads in Tabaquite, Naparima, Princes Town constituency, to be comprised, but there seem to be no kind of preventative maintenance. They allow the roads to deteriorate. They allow the taxi drivers and the commuters to complain. Then we have culminates with the frustration and the burning on the tyres. Would you say that there is any kind of preventative maintenance taking place? That is number one. Mr. Ganesh: Okay, before I go to the actual answer to that question, you did indicate, of course, your particular area, Member of Parliament for the Princes Town—[Interruption] Mr. De Coteau: Moruga/Tableland. Mr. Ganesh:—Moruga/Tableland. Unfortunately, the roads in that area, as I have indicated before, were not properly designed. Those roads evolve with time, and I agree, they are poor roads. Now in this particular—[Interruption] Mr. De Coteau: Put a pin. Mr. Ganesh, I want you to know that I am au courant with it, and I think all the occupants of the constituency know that Princes Town is situated on a ridge. As I was telling some friend, that it is not with all the land space like Chaguanas and these things, and they understand that only too well. And I am saying that this brings about a challenge to the Works people. I am saying they are not taking up that challenge. Mr. Ganesh: Okay, before I answer that particular question, I still need to emphasize something very critical, and I think you are very aware of it. On these roads we have utilities facilities, namely, WASA lines. WASA lines are forever leaking and you know they contribute—and to the panel—they contribute towards land failure to the roadway. Now, WASA will tell you, “Well the road moved first and then the line leak after”, but from our experience, and over 38 experience, the lines do leak a lot—the reason why they are undergoing a major overhaul of the waterlines throughout the country, from old lines to new lines now, and to the more flexible line, and with some time, of course, this would be addressed. It is unfortunate, of course, that the soils within your constituency are some of the worst soils in the world. Men have done dozens of PhDs by studying your soil in your area; they are expansive clays, they are the worst clays in the world. I know that for a fact, and we have our challenges. Yes, we are faced with serious challenges in maintaining roads in such areas. Your area is a major challenge. I know you have referred to it as the landslips capital of Trinidad, which, probably, is true. But, again, the maintenance, yes, there is some shortfall in maintenance, preventative maintenance, but there is very little you can do sometimes when the road is on a poor foundation or a poor structure. You have development right up to the edge of the road, you have houses, you have very poor drainage, you have drainage from houses unto the roadway, and all these components complicate the proper management and the proper maintenance of the roadway. When we try to fix a landslip sometimes, as we all know, we are confronted by private owners, land owners, actually stopping you from going into their property, even if it is 6 inches, from building a retaining wall. 11.30 a.m.


67

These are all the things we face in trying to manage and maintain roads in your type of areas. So it is a serious challenge, yes, but we are putting things in place, hopefully in time, within the next year or so, where we can regulate certain types of vehicles on certain roads. When we develop our highway infrastructure you would no longer find 10-wheelers and 18 ton vehicles going through local roads or roads like yours, they would be subjected only to the highway, and only the highway, and with restrictions we can get them even off from some of the other local government roads, residential areas included. So, these are the things we have in place and would be implemented over the next two years at least. Mr. De Coteau: Mr. Ganesh, I am happy to hear that, but what about the poor management, the poor supervision, where people are being paid as Road Supervisor or Road Officer I, II and III, and as far as I am concerned, they are not really, really taking up the challenges of the preventative maintenance. Why, when you start and you see a little saucer hole that grows into a plate hole, that grows into a deep basin that eventually ends up as a swimming pool hole, why it is they are going to deposit some aggregate today, and then three or four days after, if not a month, then they go to put the oil in it? I mean, these are some little basic things that people are observing. Then you hear they are going back in times and saying, you know, long ago, those “fellas” when they use to be maintaining the road you see them with their hoe and they are making the outlets and so on. The point is, people are being paid to so some job and they are not doing it. I mean, you may not want to agree with that publicly, but plain talk bad manners. Then you understand the point that I am making, that at the end of the day, the Member of Parliament looks inefficient, the Government looks inefficient, and it shortens the shelf life, the longevity of the shelf life. So, sometimes I wonder, with no offence to you all, if sometimes there is not a concerted plan to say, goodbye man, I am glad that you all are leaving, by the state of inertia. I want to connect the dots. Is there any kind of preventative maintenance? Let us look at Rochard Douglas Road. Let us look at Naparima-Mayaro Road; you have agreed. You know what you find now on Naparima-Mayaro Road? A number of placards saying things about the Member of Parliament for Princess Town, and on my side, the Member of Parliament for Moruga/Tableland. You know what they said? He was a man of hope, but now he is hopeless. Thanks to the lack of preventative maintenance, I agree. I agree that the 10-wheelers now are really causing destruction. I observe as well that—and let me tell you, Moruga, Gran Chemin is going to cut off from Marac quite soon, because again the land is moving, the supervisors are looking at it, and no one is making a recommendation to say, “aye”, let us try to get an alternative route. They wait until the chasm opens and then they are going to do something; which I find is the culmination of foolishness on the part of those people responsible. I find that if people have a responsibility and they are paid for a certain job, then they should do their job. I “doh” think they are doing it, honestly, and I say that without any apology. They are not doing it. Mr. Chairman: Mr. De Coteau, I was wondering if we could allow an opportunity to respond to the— Mr. De Coteau: There is another point with the oil companies and so. Mr. Chairman: Sorry? Mr. De Coteau: Sure, go ahead Sir. Preventative maintenance. Mr. Ganesh: Okay. To answer your question Mr. De Coteau, yes the management is not 100 per cent perfect with respect to supervision and even I should say the effect to supervision in reporting incidents where we can take corrective action to reduce the cost of repairs, and as such you would see


68

over this weekend an ad in the newspaper where we would be contracting road inspectors for the Highways Division so that we could increase that supervision more effectively, so we can act on it in a more realistic time, in real time as they say. So, this correction would be made in the near future and I recognize it is a problem, and we are dealing with it. As such we are recruiting more staff, because as you know, the organizational structure of the Highways Division is limited in dealing with incidents. The Highways Division has grown over the last 15 years, in terms of responsibilities, and not only for road maintenance but for other responsibilities, but the staff structure has not kept pace with that development, and as such a lot of our officers—we have a shortfall of senior officers, and we are contracting such officers to deal with the shortfall and to deal with such incidents that you have indicated. So, this—however, well hopefully, within this year in fact, it would be addressed, and you would see a marked improvement in maintenance and how we do things on the highways. Mr. De Coteau: I am very, very grateful to hear that. Mr. Ganesh, is there the possibility, is there anything planned so that Works and Infrastructure can work collaboratively with WASA? Because there seems to be a joy—and local government—that after the roads are paved, then the cracks turn up. Mr. Ganesh: Well, we have gone beyond that. We have already drafted an MOU with WASA in particular, but hopefully with all the utilities, but we know that WASA is taking priority. We have drafted this already and it would be going to Cabinet for final approval. We already have committees meeting with WASA. You would observe however, there has been an improvement in the connection between WASA and the Highways Division, and there is some coordination taking place. You would have observed when WASA now fixes a leak or was doing major developing works, it has been repaired properly. In fact, they are doing temporary reinstatement and then permanents reinstatement, and they are paying much more attention to specification of the reinstatement. So, there has been a marked improvement with WASA. I will not knock them too hard because they have improved a lot over the last year, and we intend to improve on that. You would see, of course, there is a major improvement plan for the whole country by WASA, and we are working with them already on that where we are prioritizing and we are doing a lot of the works during the night. You would, of course, I am sure you would agree with that. So, there is coordination now, much more coordination than before, and there is also improvement in the quality of the reinstatement done by WASA. Mr. De Coteau: I totally agree with you that WASA is really doing a magnificent job now, but what about collaborative work with the regional corporation? The regional corporation, or the municipal corporations as you want to label them, they do not have the capacity. I will tell you something, Members, when you are out there constituents do not want to know this is regional corporation road and this is highways. They want to get their roads repaired in quick time. There needs to be some more collaborative work with the municipal corporations for delivery of these things. People buying their cars and I mean, are having their cars destroyed. We are not taking into consideration those people who are physically challenged. Walking on the pavement is indeed a challenge. Right. People building all their buildings and what not and have no car park and all these things. There is a lot of collaborative work that must take place, but I feel that—and I am really pleading—you all work closer. I know that there is a meeting that you have with the coordinators head and so on, it helps at the corporation level, but I want to feel that there is a lot of responsibility that Works, who have the capacity and the engineering competence to, you know, really work. I mean, I have no fight with PURE because they have really taken—helped out a number of constituencies. The other area I am asking whether—and this would go for transport as well—we use the goodwill and the social conscience of some of the oil companies to help to develop some of our roads, our arterial roads? For instance, I saw where mention is made of a road from Moruga to Rio Claro. We have Edward Trace and we have Saunders Trace that are used, and we are saying that all these heavy


69

vehicles that these oil companies should work together and have these roads developed, including Moruga Road as well, because these heavy duty things—I also want to as the Transport what are the plans for the PTRC, the PTSC from Moruga to Port of Spain? Do not give me the answer, I know it; the roads are bad, they cannot pass. I am saying this against the background that the trucks delivering gas do not want to go into the Moruga and Barrackpore areas because of the poor infrastructure, right, it is a challenge. It really takes the dexterity on the part of a driver to skilfully drive up there. So it affects the fishermen, they cannot get their diesel because they are not going to deliver. It affects the farmers in Barrackpore, Platanite and La Sival. So, it is a long chain reaction, and I am begging, I am literally begging that something be done expeditiously. Right; the Naparima-Mayaro Road, Tabaquite and all the areas, and to work collaboratively, especially with the municipal corporation. I know that Minister Rambachan, the Minister of Local Government is really trying, but he cannot do it by himself. Thank you, Chair. Mr. Chairman: Thank you. Mr. Jeffery. Mr. Jeffery: Yeah. I want to take off from where Mr. De Coteau left off. From my vantage point the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure seems to have a very weak or poor maintenance programme. I would really like to know what steps are being taken to improve the maintenance programme of those roads. I say this against a background in my constituency for example, I try to be proactive, identify wherever there are potholes, wherever there are land slips and so on, and try to inform the Ministry of Works as early as possible. Nothing happens. Recently they paved the La Brea stretch. I saw the poor foundation work that was being put down. I wrote the Ministry again, and said listen, this material would not hold. Right now if you go there is a nice bumpy rise going through and so on. I am saying, are we serious about dealing with the roads in our country? More than that, sometimes you write the Ministry and you ask them to fix a road, and they tell you listen, “well we eh have no money and so on, and down the road”. And you know what happen? The residents block the road, they burn tire, and the next day the Ministry of Works come and they fix the road. That, to me, baffles my thinking and so on as to what is really happening in terms of the roads in our country? That is one serious problem I have and so on, and I would really like to know your response to that. The second thing, Mr. Ganesh, that proposed highway to Point Fortin; there is just one connector road to that highway in that entire constituency. I was wondering whether or not we could not really look at the thing properly, and have another access road? I am just asking for one more—access road to the highway—because what is going to happen, they are going to kill the economic life of those several villages where there is already a high unemployment situation. I want to deal also with the PTSC. I see in the document here they talk about March 2013, bus service from Point Fortin to La Brea. I am saying, listen we need to go better than that. Inside the township of La Brea we used to have a bus service many years ago servicing that entire area. It has stopped and I see no plan, for example, for the introduction of a bus service within the township of La Brea. I really want us to understand that inside La Brea there is an aged community. Right. A lot of pensioners and so on, and given the high unemployment that La Brea already experiences, I think it is extremely important for us to introduce a bus service within the township of La Brea. That is my first observation in that regard.


70

My second point has to do with the bus service, the school maxi-taxi service. Several principals have approached me and they are really interested in getting the students on to the school maxi-taxi service. There seems to be some sort of running around in terms of how they get their students on the school maxi-taxi service. I wish to get some sort of guidance so I could allow them to know what is the process to undertake. In Cabinet Minute No. 39 January 2012 gave the approval for the conversion of 300 buses from diesel to CNG. We are in 2013, could you tell us how many PTSC buses now have been converted from diesel to CNG? Okay. 11.45 a.m. Let me deal with all questions one time. The water taxi: in San Fernando the terminal for passengers is substandard, not like Port of Spain, Port of Spain is fairly all right. In San Fernando there are poor facilities for the commuters. In addition to that, parking is also a nightmare, and more people would use the water taxi if in fact there was some kind of multi-storey car park and so on. That begs another question, that the service of the water taxi service, to me, is inadequate. We need more service from the water taxi to facilitate the whole thing, and I will tell you something, because I use that road on a regular basis going from San Fernando to Port of Spain—if we have a better water taxi service the traffic congestion that we have on mornings to go to Port of Spain would be reduced substantially. I think that is food for thought and so on. I read in the document where it is mentioned, for example, that the annual expenditure for the water taxi is $47 million, the revenue is only $7 million, and that frightens me because it gives me the indication that, listen, this water taxi thing might discontinue too; because the cost, the revenue is not matching the expenditure; and I am saying, do we take into consideration what is the cost to the Treasury for the loss of man hours and the low productivity when commuters have to spend those hours on the highway? I think we have to factor that in as well. And you just cannot look at the $47 million against the $7 million; you have to look at those other factors as well. So I beg that that should also be considered. The water taxi service to Point Fortin; I see it is very nicely stated in the document about steps—let me see if I get it, page 23: “Steps are being taken by the Ministry of Transport to undertake the planning and design of suitable infrastructure for berthing and terminal facilities at Point Fortin.” I would like to know, what are the steps being taken and where are they at this point in time? I have a little worry that the highway coming down from Golconda to Point Fortin, that that water taxi service might not come to reality. They were talking about the problems that they had with the Trinmar jetty, and I am saying, La Brea has a pier, a jetty as well; why not upgrade or renovate the jetty and have the water taxi service linking La Brea with San Fernando and so on? It is extremely important, because all these things about more buses on the roads and widening the road, that would just be a short-term measure. In Trinidad and Tobago many commuters like to travel, drive their own car and go up the road. Pooling transport—well, say three and four people in a car and so on, that is “small thing”. That would not have a real long-term effect. I feel what we have to look at, really and truly is seriously upgrading the water taxi service. Secondly, I am also begging for, for example, some kind of mass transit system to deal with the gridlock in the road network. In terms of the ferry service: I really looked at the whole question of the Internet sales, which I found was a good thing, and I understand in January 2013 we are going to see some kind of thing. I would


71

like to know, in terms of the Internet sales, how far are we with that proposal? I think that is my last question. Mr. Chairman: Could we have a response. Mr. Ganesh: With respect to your two questions on maintenance in the La Brea area, basically I think I answered that with Minister De Coteau here. Improvements to our maintenance and the type of maintenance we do, we have already implemented infrastructure with respect to routine maintenance management system, which is a system, of course, where we monitor the effects on our roadway, our highways and our main roads and we do recurrent repair as we go along. Now we do periodic repair, we also do regular mid repair, depending, of course, on the funding situation. Again, La Brea, as you well know, lies on several layers of moving asphalt, and it is no rocket science that whatever we do there, that main road that runs through La Brea, will settle because of the extraction of asphalt in the mines lower down, the pits basically, and you have continuous movement. The foundation of the roadway will continue to deteriorate, because we know we have to do periodic repairs to that road like every three months or every month. We have to level it up so at least buses could pass properly or cars could pass properly, because the foundation of that particular roadway is not just one metre, or two metres, or three metres thick; it is several metres thick and it is very, very, I should say, it is mobile, it is moving continuously as we extract material, and the only way basically to arrest that problem from an engineering standpoint is to build an elevated highway or elevated road with deep foundation— Mr. Jeffrey: Mr. Ganesh, let me stop you there. The road in La Brea—people in La Brea are not expecting roads to be like the highway, you know. All what they are asking for is regular maintenance. There was a regular maintenance programme over the years, and for some reason it was stopped. To me, that is very disrespectful to the people of La Brea. That is the first point. The second point I want to make is this: let us concentrate on La Brea proper, Vance River, for example, is a case in Point; some big potholes in La Brea, in Vance River. You go to Palo Seco and Santa Flora, we have potholes and so on, they are not affected by the pitch lake and I am saying, why is it that we cannot have a proper maintenance programme to deal with those issues? Mr. Ganesh: Now, there is a maintenance programme, of course, there is room for improvement in the maintenance programme, but I have to indicate, coupled with that, of course we have to deal with leaking water mains on our roadways. Most of our potholes sometime on a roadway—if you look at a particular road it will be as a result of a leaking main, a pothole develop and sometimes you cannot fix the pothole until WASA repairs the leak. Now, that basically— Mr. Jeffrey: Listen, in case of Vance River, you know—I know WASA is what? Mr. De Coteau: The “rippling boy”. Mr. Jeffrey: Like the “rippling boy”, but Vance River is a case in point. WASA has nothing to do with that. The problem has to do with the Ministry of Works doing what they are supposed to do. Mr. Ganesh: And I agree. In areas like Vance River, throughout the country in fact, there is deterioration taking place and we have to be on top of it. Again, as I indicated before, we will be taking steps to improve the effective maintenance of those roadways to ensure that when we have a small defect on a road it would not develop into a major pothole. We will be taking charge of that and we intend to see a vast improvement over this fiscal year.


72

Mrs. Oudit: Mr. Chair, I just want to pick up on one thing Mr. Jeffrey said about the water taxi. Mr. Chairman: Yes. Mrs. Oudit: When I read the document as well, similar to his concern, I got the impression that it was almost to a pre-exit strategy that you were talking dollars and cents. I am very fearful if that was to happen—I speak again on behalf of the southern people who use it, many of them commute and work in Port of Spain—I would like to suggest that the facilities in and around the water taxi hub be looked at, expanded parking facilities, washrooms, cafeterias, you brighten the area. Parallel to the entrance to the San Fernando General Hospital there is an entire section overlooking the sea, that is unused, if is simply for—they call it “lover’s lane”, Mr. Jeffrey? Mr. Jeffrey: Yes. Mrs. Oudit: So that you know it is really unused for anything that is probably a little too productive but not in the economic terms that we would like to consider, so I would like to make the suggestion that that area be looked at for expanded parking facilities, a hub, cafeteria, facilities for small entrepreneurship and develop the area. Again, that is for the base of the San Fernando General Hospital which would feed into facilities that people who are coming to the San Fernando emergency/casualty area would actually be able to use those facilities as well. I would also like to suggest that from the existing water taxi port in San Fernando—we have a fishing, a viable fishing industry at the Gulf of Paria, and if those 20—30-foot boats can comfortably roam day, morning, noon and night, I do not see why a mini ferry service from San Fernando into Claxton Bay or Couva or even Point Fortin, because the fishing boats do it, and they are simple fishing boats with minimal water activity in terms of waves and heavy winds, so it is a relatively calm area. In your water taxi or your transportation alternatives I could imagine people from Point could jump on a ferry for maybe 30 persons, 20—30 persons, a mini ferry, and simply come into San Fernando. Again, you are looking at alternatives to freeing up your congestion. These are just some of the ways that I can suggest at this point in time. Mr. Chairman: You finish? Mr. Jeffrey: No, no, I am waiting for a response for my other questions. Ms. Johnson: I would like to try to answer some of the questions that Mr. Jeffrey would have posed as it relates to the issue of transport in and around the La Brea area. He also spoke to the water taxi situation. I recall you asking one question which was specific, wanting to have some assistance in terms of how do you relate to your constituents for the transport for school children? Mr. Jeffrey: Yes. Ms. Johnson: And I am aware that that is something that is in place with the Ministry of Education and the PTSC at this time. There are approximately 363 maxi taxis that are currently in operation and they provide approximately 32,000 seats for school children. May I suggest— Mr. Jeffrey: But do you know the procedure. Ms. Johnson:—to you that you make contact with the Ministry of Education and they would be able to direct you in terms of what is required. All right?


73

Mr. Jeffrey: All right. Ms. Johnson: So that is dealing with that issue. Just to add that from the reports I have, those maxi taxis operate even in areas of Icacos, Guayaguayare, et cetera. Okay? So I would suggest that you do that. On the issue of the bus service that you said that you wanted to have within and in and around La Brea or Point Fortin, I am not too sure. I just wish to say that that has been the subject of a question which you would have already posed to the Parliament and it is another question which is to be posed or is being posed to the House of Representatives. The Minister of Transport would soon bring that information to you at that appropriate time. I know you also brought the question as far as the water taxi and its expansion and coming into La Brea or to Sobo Village, to be exact, that too is a question that you would have asked already and it is going to be answered again. And I know that— Mrs. Oudit: Mr. Chair— Mr. De Coteau: Mr. Chair, I just want to ask, I mean, no disrespect, but I want to feel that when anybody comes before us they have to answer to us whether it is posed in Parliament or not, if I am correct. I feel that if— Ms. Johnson: Okay, I am free, I am willing to— Mr. De Coteau: No, because it sounds—not that I am taking any brief from my colleague. You know, it came over a little disrespectful to say that you ask it up there already there is no right to ask it here. I think he has the right to ask it as well. Ms. Johnson: No, that is not how it came across, but I simply wanted to say that the question was asked on two occasions, on two previous occasions, but, as I said I would provide the information. What I can say, as a matter of fact, is that as far as the water taxi is concerned and its viability, I know that that was something that you would have brought to the fore Ms. Oudit, and you say that what is written in the report seems to suggest that it is an exit strategy or pre-exit strategy— Mrs. Oudit: Alluded to. Ms. Johnson: I would say at this particular point in time that there is a cost to running the service and the Ministry at this particular point in time, bearing in mind that it has brought this information to the committee, has seen the need for a consultant to be able to work with the Ministry of Transport to determine whether or not it is going to be something that we can either continue or expand bearing in mind the cost of running the service. Mrs. Oudit: I would just like to tell you that there are a number of professionals who, actually have attempted to use that service, I know personally; I myself have actually used the water taxi service; the problem remains, if you drive yourself to the area—I have no problems getting on to the boat, but there is nowhere to park. So, if there is nowhere to park, definitely I am not going to leave my vehicle at side of the road, and that is a major deterrent, and this information is free of charge. Ms. Johnson: Okay, could you suggest it— Mrs. Oudit: I am suggesting parking, massive parking.


74

Ms. Johnson: I am assuming that at the end of this session you would in fact provide me with that information? 12.00 p.m. Ms. Johnson: Just to add that that is one of the reasons why the ministry has, in fact, approached the Cabinet to treat with park-and-ride facilities throughout Trinidad and Tobago and, you know, we want to be sure that persons can, in fact, park their vehicles and ride. Whether it be on the PTSC buses or it be on the water taxi, we want to be able to pull the vehicles off the road and at least alleviate some of the traffic jam that it is causing. Mrs. Oudit: This is specific to the water taxi, because the water taxi is an existing alternative transport mode. So that I am saying by supplementing the facilities it would encourage—the reason that you are losing at this point is because it is not used enough to generate more income. Therefore, if you look at how do you generate more users—the use of it—how do you expand the use, it is to allow for people to park their vehicles. The park and ride in the interior on main roads with the traffic areas and so, it is similar but it is a separate issue. The issue here is, do we have existing facilities for a larger number of persons willing to use—they are very willing; the boats are very good; the service; the staff; the crew, very, very personable; excellent service; the seats; the accommodation, very good. The problem again, I reiterate, is the fact that people cannot park their vehicles to go in. It is very limited. Ms. Johnson: Okay. I take that, but as I did report, the fact remains that the ministry will, in fact, be engaging with some consultants, and you promised me at the end of the session we would be so advised. I know that Mr. Jeffrey did speak to the fact that we needed to take into consideration the productivity level that is lost because of the long hours, and I think that is where reference should be made to the park and ride, where, you know, once those are in place, persons should be able to get to their place of work on a timely basis and at least ease the traffic jams on the nation’s road. And, as I said, this matter is engaging the Cabinet at this particular point in time vis-a-vis the establishment of the park and ride, and the first place that it is supposed to start, hopefully, would be the Brian Lara Stadium. Mr. Jeffrey: The Brian Lara Stadium to the water taxi terminal is a good distance. Ms. Johnson: No, no, no. I am not making reference. I said, overall what the ministry is doing is looking at park-and-ride facilities to treat with both entities; to treat with being able to park and ride with the PTSC buses and to be able to park and ride—have a facility of park and ride—so persons can park and ride on the water taxi ferry service. That is what I am saying. Mr. Jeffrey: Yes, but that still does not satisfy me at all. What I am saying is that the water taxi is down at the wharf; the Brian Lara Stadium is on the other side of the highway. If, for example, you have to take the park-and-ride system to travel from the Brian Lara Stadium to go down to the water taxi terminal— Ms. Johnson: Mr. Jeffrey, that was not my intention and that is not what I said. They are two separate issues. Mr. Jeffrey: I am not getting it clear. Ms. Johnson: They are two separate issues.


75

Mrs. Oudit: You are referring to the Brian Lara Stadium in relation to internal road traffic. Ms. Johnson: I am referring to the Brian Lara Stadium in terms of the road traffic issues and I said that the strategy that is being used by the ministry is a park-and-ride strategy. Okay? Mr. Jeffrey: Okay. Well, my question, really, has to do with in terms of the commuters utilizing the water taxi we have a problem with parking. How is that going to be addressed? Ms. Johnson: Again, the ministry will, in fact, be engaging the use of a consultant before it goes forward to determine whether or not we will, in fact, have an expansion of a car park or a furtherance of the service, and I did say that to Mrs. Oudit. Mrs. Oudit: Yes. And one more thing added to that. In your discussions with the consultants, I know that there was the service of using a bus. When you get off at the Port of Spain end, you got a chit to use a bus. That has been discontinued, as far as I am aware. Is that correct? Ms. Johnson: I would ask Mr. Forde to— Mrs. Oudit: Or it is only for certain routes, very rush hour traffic that they use the bus. Whether it is discontinued or it is not, I would just like to suggest it is a very good idea. However, because there are fewer numbers of persons requiring—maybe instead of using the big buses—because there is a problem of movement—maybe the smaller maxi taxi-sized vehicles—when you come off from the water taxi—for the various venues: who is going to Lady Young; who is going to wherever—instead of using the big PTSC buses. Because, normally, I have used it and you only have about eight or 10 persons actually sitting in the bus coming out of the water taxi. The bus is empty, but it is solely for the use of the water taxi passengers. So my suggestion is that you look at smaller-sized vehicles, that they can wait there in time for the passengers coming off and for movement into the city, as against—right there, they wait just at the front on Wrightson Road. Mr. Chairman: Are you satisfied with the responses, Mr. Jeffrey? Mr. Jeffrey: I will live with that. Ms. Johnson: There is one other question with respect to the conversion which I had asked Mr. Forde to treat with. Mr. Forde: Through you, Mr. Chair, PTSC recently converted one bus to CNG in the last two weeks or so. We are presently converting two others. They are close to completion. We had to do a number of studies to be able to meet the requirements of the Cabinet minute that required that we do a mono fuel conversion. A lot of the people we went to could not provide a mono fuel conversion. They were providing a 70/30—80/30 diesel CNG, but the Cabinet minute specifically spoke to a mono fuel conversion. We got some technology out of Burma and the Burmese technicians are here; they successfully converted one. We are testing that right now and they are working on two presently. Based on the results of these conversions on that project we will now determine how we move forward with the conversion project. Mr. Jeffrey: So that 300 seem kind of remote. Mr. Forde: I would not say so. Based on the response and the success that we have had, very soon there should be a decision to move forward, and they have guaranteed us that if a decision is taken by the Ministry of Transport and the Cabinet, they could convert the entire fleet in 18 months.


76

Mr. Jeffrey: One other question. The internet sales at the port. Mr. Grant: Let me just say that the date of January has been revised to the end of March. There is some work still going on between the web developer and those works are scheduled to be completed so that we could implement it at the end of March. Mr. Chairman: Dr. Douglas. Dr. Douglas: I will try to be very specific and precise. I realize a lot of time people bounce down traffic lights. Do they have to pay to put these things back up? Mr. Israel: Yes. What we do is we recover from the insurance companies. Dr. Douglas: Okay. Could I get a little report on the status of the traffic warden exercise that has been happening in Trinidad and Tobago? Mr. Israel: When you say a status report, what we had submitted was fairly comprehensive—the documentation. What exactly you would like to have— Dr. Douglas: Do you find it is working all right? Mr. Israel: Not only is it working; it is in very great demand. Now, according to the report—and the report is very—I would say—precise. What we said was that we had that first experimental phase which was 100-and-something that we have put on the roads, and the design of the structure was itself very nominal because we did not know what it would take. The report goes through a lot of detail showing the sort of things we have discovered. The main things we have discovered was that because the traffic wardens themselves are dedicated to that one facet of law enforcement, they seem to be more—their morale is different, if you like, to the police officers, and the police officers, by and large, have been pulling back from traffic duty. To a large extent, in fact, the police themselves would call on traffic wardens and ask them to carry out services for them. The report lists the many areas of demand that we get. We get a lot from schools, taxis and maxi stands, business places, and, of course, we get from MPs and so on, people who request things to be addressed in their area. Because of the small number of this experiment we have submitted a note to Cabinet in June last year which was sent down to PMCD. PMCD, in meeting with us, thorough as they are, required a lot of explanation, which we have done and submitted to PMCD. It is before PMCD as we speak. The document that I had submitted to the panel here is an excerpt from what we submitted to PMCD. In short, what it says is that if we are to address the sort of demands that we have detected in the last nearly two years-and-a-half at the time of writing, we are talking about an expanded team of over 1,300 new persons. This is in comparison to the 179 we have in the streets right now. Now, there is a problem with this and I want to go back to something here, because I am listening very attentively and respectfully to the goings on of this gathering. There are bigger pictures that are not apparently being acknowledged and addressed. So we are dealing with very small aspects and the big picture is not being dealt with. The main big picture was pointed out by Mrs. Oudit at the beginning. In the absence of a national plan—and I will give you an example of what a national plan may entail and I will come back to your question. It may entail, for example, that we discourage the use of private vehicles and encourage the use of public transport. If that is a policy that is adopted by the State, then everything changes. You have lower subsidies, if you like, on fuels; you have actual putting in place of public transport services,


77

whether it be mass transit or bus, dedicated bus lanes, or whatever. You are not encouraging people to come to the city by not providing parking, for example. Now, that is just one example. You have other examples, for example, decentralization of government services. Now, we have lots of centralization. I heard people talking about how difficult it is to get to Port of Spain, but we are not seeing—the point is why you come to Port of Spain in the first place. So I just want to, with all respect, give to the committee the fact that what we are talking about here is just a very small fraction of the big picture. To come back to the question, what we have done with the traffic wardens is basically knee jerk. It is responsive. We have done the first phase; it has been fairly successful and we are asking for a lot of people in the second phase. The problem with that, however, is that when you ask for 1,300—1,400 new people, you are asking for a very sizable wage bill, and this wage bill is out of context with anything else. We do not know, for example, if we are going to be doing e ticketing—a simple thing as that—that two years ago was promised. E ticketing makes a big difference in your ability to track, to give penalties and so on. The ministry is experimenting with, where there is red light, automatic violation detection, for example, and we are going to be bringing that legislation to the Parliament. That is another issue because these are the bigger pictures. Are we going towards these things or are we just reacting to everything? I am sorry to say that even though that is a very comprehensive and well worked-out document that we submitted, it is only a reaction to the status quo. The status quo is still not being addressed, in our opinion. So the traffic wardens have worked, successfully, yes. We have asked for 1,300 more people. We are keeping our fingers crossed that PMCD will see it in their wisdom to grant us that. Dr. Douglas: So your analysis, Mr. Israel, is that from a national standpoint the overall concept of traffic management and its alignment with road, et cetera, have not been addressed adequately. Mr. Israel: It has not been addressed. In our document we had indicated that the national transportation study that was commenced in 2005 that eventually had to be aborted in 2008 was intended to bring all these matters together, which include land development. We do not have a physical development plan which, itself, has been postponed and postponed and redone and redone. So what is happening is that you are developing transport infrastructure in the absence of where things are going, and what makes it worse—because there are priorities—there are demands of the citizenry. For example, I want houses, so let us find a space where we can put houses, and so we find a space and we put them down. This week I met with HDC and HDC, unfortunately—I tell them and this is no secret, and NHA before them—has a way of, “Let us get the houses done; let us get plannings up and then let us see where we could connect them to our roadway.” Dr. Douglas: This was my question because in my constituency I have 1,200 homes being built by a developer; 1,200 being built by HDC; Cleaver Heights have 500; La Florissante, that has a next 200 or so, and all of these are in the very immediate areas of one little road called the Arima Old Road. It used to be the old main road, but now has returned to being a main road again because all of these things exist. 12.15 p.m. Mr. Israel: You are absolutely correct.


78

Dr. Douglas: So that road has become quite a mess, because we now have over 5,000 additional families that will be placed. When I say families, that amount to twice the number in terms of cars. Mr. Israel: And where are they going? Dr. Douglas: This issue of this national transportation plan to address this situation, who is responsible to address that? Mr. Israel: That is a good question. At the time the national transportation study was being done, a comprehensive national plan, it was not just land, it was land, sea and air. In 2005 to 2008, that was entrusted in the Ministry of Works and Transport at that time. What we have done, in fact, at this point in time, we have come at this time for a limit version of that which deals with strictly land—land transport. Mr. Israel: Now, I was anxious about this particular forum for one reason only, if we can get people to understand that you really cannot carry on without a comprehensive, well worked out plan, which you do not keep changing all the time. That is the one idea that we would love to leave with you honourable folk. So at this time the only person who is pursuing a national transportation land study is the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure at this point in time. Now, as I said before, because of the division of the Ministries—we have listed and it is here, “Coordination with primarily Ministry of Transport” which is now key to that plan. Originally, it would have been part of our Ministry. Of course, Ministry of Planning and Sustainable Development and the Ministry of Finance and the Economy, Ministry of Housing, Land and Marine Affairs, Ministry of Local Government and Ministry of Public utilities, so it is everybody involved, but you need a key driver if you like. Our Ministry and our Minister in particular is prepared to be that driver of this plan. But, you see, it is not—pardon me a few more seconds—it is not romantic. It is not something you deliver overnight. Planning and maintenance are the two major failures of developing countries, because they do not immediately deliver anything. So, the decisions that we are making, and we have said it, seem to be in a vacuum in the absence of an overall plan, which makes any sense. I beg your pardon. Sen. Oudit: Mr. Chair, before you— Mr. Chairman: Sorry, just— Dr. Douglas: I have not finished as yet. I have more immediate and specific questions for I guess, the PTSC people. It has to do with the Arima terminal and routes around Arima, in particular. Are those coming on stream in March as you say, and particularly the one to Arouca? These are very selfish questions because I am the MP for that area. It really has to do with the development of those. Then my final question has to do with City Gate. City Gate poses a fundamental problem for me, in respect of how I perceive people should be treated. I do not like City Gate at all. That is my personal thing. It is just like a kind of wild place to me. You know that stairs that you go up to go over to go down to the maxis-taxis, that stairs is always a complete mess. It is chewing gum, dirt, dust, cobweb, all kinds of things. I do not know, probably PTSC people do not pass through City Gate. Is there any plan—let me deal with City Gate first—to really develop City Gate? I know there was some grand plan recently. But, is there any plan to develop City Gate as a gate to the city, as a grand


79

place where people can enter and leave the city? What is the plan for City Gate I should ask? No, I want to hear it. Mr. Forde: With reference to City Gate, Hon. Member, we are in constant dialogue and discussions with the management of the City Gate facility. Dr. Douglas: When I ask questions that you have already submitted, it is because it does not get recorded and people watching on TV do not see it. So, I ask the question. Sometimes you may say you give it on paper, but I ask the question because I want you to say it out loud. Mr. Forde: As I said, we are in discussions, ongoing discussions with the City Gate management. The Route Two Maxi-Taxi Association, we are presently developing an MOU with that team, to take the entire management and development of the City Gate facility forward. I myself have a vision for most of the public transportation hubs, where they can be transformed into a centre for business to be driven and for people to feel a certain level of comfort when they have to use the facility. My vision is that when you come to the transportation hub, we create a lot of economic spaces around it, so that people could mingle, do business, regenerate economic activity and the economic activity could feed into the development of the city. Dr. Douglas: Yes. City Gate must have a sense of grandeur and wonder. The gates of any city from olden time to now have always been a place where the elders meet and carry own trade and talk about development of the country and stuff like that. It must carry us. Like when you go to Grand Central Station, you have to look up and wonder. Mr. Forde: I share that vision. I hear some of your poetry coming out there. I share that vision. Dr. Douglas: Yes, Mr. Forde. Mr. Forde: Hon. Member, Arima. We also have some very grand plans for the Arima terminal. Dr. Douglas: That is the one at the end of the Bus Route. Mr. Forde: At the end of the Bus Route, yes. We are about to do some development works there. We will be able to have people sit and wait on the buses to go to the different villages in the east of Trinidad. What we have planned to do is to remove ALTA that occupies the ground floor and TUCO E-Zone. We have a commitment from both entities that they will go upstairs and we will open up the downstairs with some economic activity, economic spaces and some seating facilities for the commuters, so they could come to the facility. We also have plans to run from that facility a coach service direct from Arima to Port of Spain. So there are great plans on the drawing board for Arima. Dr. Douglas: Do you have one going down the Old Road too to Five Rivers? Is that what I see there, the Arima Old Road? Mr. Forde: Yes. Dr. Douglas: What happens to that? What is the purpose of that thing in Arima itself, opposite to Ridgewood Plaza by the tamarind tree, Larry Gomes Stadium area there, where the buses end or go to? Do you understand where I am talking about?


80

Mr. Forde: No. Dr. Douglas: Hollis Avenue, where the buses go into Arima. There was a kind of terminus built there. Mr. Forde: Where they collect passengers from there? Dr. Douglas: I do not know if they collect passengers. We have never understood exactly what the purpose was—where the old Arima Terminus was, the old, old one, next to the Velodrome. Mr. Wannette: Hon. Member, perhaps I can shed some light on that. That facility was put in place by the Arima Borough Corporation. It is used essentially by PTSC as an in transit point. Passengers and customers do in fact congregate there and they board our services at that point. Dr. Douglas: It is kind of a super-sized bus stop. Mr. Wannette: Yes, that is correct. Dr. Douglas: Okay. Mr. Chairman: Can I get in a few as well if you do not mind. [Laughter] Anyone who can respond to the few questions that I have. We have a question here from someone who submitted it to the committee actually, and it has to do with the Chaguanas schedule. What they are saying is that the schedule says that every 20 minutes there is a bus to Chaguanas and that it is really more like 45 minutes. I think we spoke about that earlier. That the schedules are not really working and the suggestion is that perhaps you should check on the length of the lines and come up with a schedule or more buses to accommodate that. The other thing I wanted to touch upon is the passenger ridership, and that is on page 5 of your report. There are some figures there that I did not quite understand and I kept looking at it. I am wondering if you can just explain it for me please. Page 5—and it has to do with some— Bear with me a minute. First, let us look at the smaller report that says, land transport PTSC, because I had some problems with those figures as well. If you look on page 5 of that report, in 2012—do you see where I am talking about? If you look at those figures for June, July, August and September and in September it dropped significantly. I could not quite understand what the reason was for that in September. Could anybody explain that for me? Mr. Forde: That is the holidays. School is on vacation from June, July— Mr. Chairman: June, July, August and September, those four months. Mr. Wannette: Mr. Chairman and hon. Members, if I should come in there. Unfortunately, during the period of September 2012, we had some industrial relations problems— Mr. Chairman: You had what? Mr. Wannette:—that adversely affected our services. Mr. Chairman: Or, that was that period. Mr. Wannette: That is correct, Sir.


81

Mr. Chairman: Okay, that explains it then, because I could not quite understand that. So that would carry over on the following page, page 6 with respect to the—all right. Okay, that explains it. Thanks a lot, because that was bothering me a bit. I want to also touch a bit on the disabled, page 24. Now where exactly are those buses located? One, how many do you have for disabled persons, where are these buses located, is it a central location? Are they located in the— Mr. Forde: We have a total of 24 of these disabled buses that was recently procured for the service. They are located, the spread is— Mr. Chairman: Page 24. Mr. Wannette: Yes, Chairman and hon. Members the buses are located throughout Trinidad and in Tobago. We have 10 such buses in Port of Spain that operate out of Port of Spain providing services to disabled clients. Six in San Fernando, one out of Arima, one out of Chaguanas, two out of Sangre Grande and one out of Point Fortin and three in Tobago. The total amount of buses we have operating and providing services for the disabled community total 24. Mr. Chairman: How does the system work? Do you call? Do you make a pre-booking? You call about an before, you go to them. Mr. Wannette: We in fact accept calls. We have pre-arranged trips to provide services for persons who are required to go to the bank, attend to hospital appointments, dental appointments and other business activities. But, on a daily basis we provide services which are pre-booked. A day in advance or we have a regular service, morning and evening to take you to work and to school, et cetera. Mr. Chairman: Okay. So is there a register of disabled persons or physically challenged? Mr. Wannette: Yes, we do have a client register of persons who require the service and if in fact we get a request, as well, I should mention we provide services on weekends as well. Mr. Chairman: So there is a register that you maintain? Mr. Wannette: Yes Sir, that is correct. There is a register. Mr. Chairman: All right, I just wanted to also comment on the big picture mentioned by Mr. Israel, if we really can have, feel free to really provide us with any information that you think would assist you in your work, because this report that we are preparing would actually be considered and tabled in Parliament. I think this would be the opportunity if there are constraints, if there are difficulties, to really be very open about it and to bring it to our attention. 12.30 p.m. Mr. Chairman: I have just two other points, but I would allow Mrs. Oudit. Mrs. Oudit: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. My series of questions actually refers to the document under PTSC. Of all the expansion of routes I saw there were none actually done in Trinidad and all proposed and done in Tobago, any particular reason for that?—PTSC


82

Mr. Forde: Madam Member, PTSC did open three new routes in Trinidad. It is the hard bargain to San Fernando and back, Curepe to San Fernando—between Curepe and San Fernando—and recently Oropune to Port of Spain. So those were routes that have been opened. Mrs. Oudit: Well in light of that, I am asking, again, probably following what the Chairman was asking, what are the criteria that is used when you are assessing either the expansion of a route or the discontinuance of a route? What are the criteria used for your land transportation?—land as in your bus route. So that might factor into the need. The other part of that entire thing was your breakdown of rural versus urban usage and, again, to map out the needs of the entire country on a rural to urban basis because I am sure—and even that will also inform the type of vehicle that you use. In rural communities you may very well have the ability to use larger vehicles. In the urban centres, it might be more feasible to use smaller type vehicles. So, again, bringing in the same type of buses PTSC is synonymous with a bus, but that is a public transport service and not necessarily only a bus service. I see Mr. Adande Piggott prepared a document or was responsible based on the information here for the priority bus route traffic scheme. So the document that is submitted, I assume, is from your work. I would like to point to the point that you raised or your statement in fact, your closing statement on the page, and while it referred to the priority bus route, what was very telling is your last statement—the improvements that have occurred on our highways have greatly discouraged motorists from venturing onto the priority bus route. I think if we look at that, it actually tells us that the very need for the bus route has been offset when major infrastructural works were done along the highway. If you look at that and if you look at that as an example of how fixing and enhancing and widening and alternating routes, et cetera, may very well be the way in which you deal with traffic congestion. I am reading here—which is a good point. I am just saying it is a good admission in this document that it was—Yes? Mr. Israel: Sorry, you might be misinterpreting. This is in a context. Remember this report is in response to a direct question about the priority bus route experimental scheme, which was a car pooling scheme. So his comment was simply to say that the motorists who may take advantage of that scheme are less attracted to doing so because of the improvements on the highway. This has nothing to do with the usefulness of the priority bus route. Mrs. Oudit: No, I am— Mr. Israel: No, that is what you said just now. Mrs. Oudit: No, I did not. Mr. Israel: Yes, you did. I just want to clear that up— Mrs. Oudit: No, I know this. Mr. Israel:—that it is not the use of the priority bus route that is affected by it. Mrs. Oudit: No, I started by saying that while this was in reference to the PBR and your programme in the PBR, the fact that this comment comes in this document suggests that while you will always have the need for the PBR and all of that, you can try any number of schemes. The simple act of enhancing a parallel highway which is from Grande Bazaar straight into Port of Spain, along that highway, not the PBR, just the widening of that road, sometime I believe at the end of 2010, early 2011, made such a significant impact on the traffic congestion that there—this is his statement here.


83

The improvements that have occurred on our highways have greatly discouraged the motorist from even venturing onto the PBR. So I am suggesting that that is a very telling statement that the additional lanes along from Grand Bazaar straight into Port of Spain—I commute almost on a daily basis and I can tell you from an hour, from Grand Bazaar into Port of Spain in the past—just those two points—now I can make that in 15 minutes. Personally, I do not even use the PBR anymore. It was so interesting, reading this statement, in light of the scheme, but it actually spoke to me on a personal level because I myself have stopped. In fact, it takes me longer to use the PBR than to go from Grand Bazaar straight into Port of Spain, and the widening of the lanes was the most crucial fact in that entire thing. I just wanted to point that out. Mr. Chairman: Following up on that experimental scheme, in terms of the key findings, figure 1 on page 3 of 21 in that report, again, some figures jumped out at me that had me a little baffled. If you find page 3 of 21 and you look at the first three bullets, where it talks about the maxi taxi, 12 to 15-seater, if you look at the figures in there, it says that they account for 20 per cent of the total traffic in 2011 at Morvant—I guess in your survey—while in 2010, they accounted for 35 per cent of total traffic. So there was a significant decrease. Now on the second bullet, the same thing happened. When you get to the third bullet, with respect to the higher capacity vehicles, the impression I am getting is that the reverse happened. Those three bullets I do not quite understand in terms of the findings of that experimental scheme. You see what I am talking about? Mr. Piggott: Yes. Simply what you are saying is that people are leaving the shorter maxi taxis and purchasing the larger ones. Mr. Chairman: Okay. Mr. Piggott: So these numbers is what is telling there. So with the 12-seater, some of the maxi taxis operators are purchasing the larger ones. So between 2010 and 2011 that is what is demonstrated here, where you could assume such. Mr. Chairman: Somebody else wanted to say something down there? All right! I will have a look at it again and see whether that—the only other thing I wanted to mention here is that there is a report mentioned on page 1 of that same report—that same submission, page 1, the third line—the second paragraph says, “As mentioned before in an earlier report”. I could not figure out what report that refers to. At the same time on page 15 of 21, it says the month of January—that is the fourth line from the bottom—and, again, I could not figure out January of what year you were talking about. Those are minor things, but in terms of trying to make an assessment, it will be important to me, but I really did not know what you were talking about. Say perhaps, sometime if you could perhaps clarify that for us and maybe even provide us with a reference to that report that you pertain in the end. Mrs. Oudit: Mr. Chair, your comment actually ties in with what I was saying just a while ago with the increased use of the highway, and these are the figures that supported what I saw in this document. There was actually the private use of a regular car driving to get into Port of Spain over the period 2010 to 2011, the number of private vehicles simply has reduced using the PBR. In fact, you say 35 per cent in 2010 down to 20 per cent in 2011. Again, I am suggesting that it is because the highway area is far better now that there is no need to try to access the PBR.


84

Mr. Piggott: There is another offence with regard to people just do not want to car pool. It could be selfish by not wanting three persons in their vehicles. But what the car pooling thing is encouraging, it encourages people living in the same community and you are going into Port of Spain, just use one vehicle and use the priority bus route. So it is couple of other things, not solely that. Also the enforcement—I was just trying to tie back the enforcement because the police had increased the level of enforcement— Mr. Chairman: I was wondering. Mr. Piggott:—in that month of January, people who were “tiefin” a chance on the priority bus route say, well, they do not go onto the priority bus route anymore. You have to think about when it was first announced, it was more exciting and a lot of people wanted to use the priority bus route. So for the first three months of the experiment it was very attractive, but after they realized that it was not making much difference to the community, they went to the highway. So it is a number of things, not solely the improvements on the highway. Mr. Chairman: All right, we will have one more question from Mr. De Coteau. Mr. De Coteau: Thank you, Chair. I am the Minister in the Ministry of National Diversity and Social Integration. Under the remit of my Ministry, we look at every site. We also work closely with the Ministry of Tourism. I have said this based on the question I am going to ask, plus the fact that I know that there are a number of activity syndromes or senior persons. My wife is a retired principal and I have a number of friends who are retired and they use the facility of riding free, how many of your tour buses have these washroom facilities? Mr. Forde: We do not have any buses presently with toilet facilities. Mr. De Coteau: Well, I am asking this in the light of the senior citizens may not have the capacity to hold as some of the other persons, and I want to feel that this is one of the areas—if we are in the first-world status—that we should seriously consider. Because I heard the complaint, “Oh, my gosh, I embarrassed myself. You know and this and the other.” As a frequent traveller myself when I go the other areas I would specifically ask for the tour bus with that particular capacity. We have been experiencing at the Ministry of National Diversity where the national thrust is under our remit. We have organized a number of tours, and the challenges some of our senior persons when we stop will have to use some of your facilities and it is bad. I think this is one of area, not only so much of the buses, but even our regional corporations we need to have washroom facilities throughout, but more so, on a few of our buses. The other thing I want to ask my dear Roger— Mr. Israel: Which one? Mr. De Coteau: Ganesh. How many departments—Mr. Ganesh. It will come under infrastructure—exist in the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure? Are they all functional? I know there was once a maintenance department, do they maintain anything? I am asking you. I just want to ask too, the verges that used to be cut, is there a challenge by CEPEP now and the corporation doing thing, that the Works department do not have anything again to do? Mr. Ganesh: No!


85

Mr. De Coteau: I am asking this: how many vehicles you all have; how many operational trucks? I am just asking this judging from what I see in my area of Princes Town. How many of the sub-offices are actually functioning? If you could provide the committee with those answers, I really need to know that. It will take you quite a long time, Sir. Mr. Chairman: Could you give us a quick response to that? Mr. Ganesh: Yes, sure! The highways division, of course, comprises various branches: the bridges branch, the roads construction branch, the roads planning branch, the traffic management branch and the highways beautification unit. 12.45 p.m. The other question is probably geared towards the whole construction branch that is responsible for maintenance of the roadways and highways. We have eight main district offices throughout the country, and attached to that, we have sub-district offices, approximately four to each district. So we have probably 32 sub-district offices throughout the country again. The infrastructure—or I should say the facilities attached to these offices comprise of equipment, trucks, backhoes, excavators, rollers and other minor equipment. The maintenance of these equipment, even though it falls not really directly under the Director of Highways but under the Director of Mechanical Services, there is some interaction, of course, for heavy equipment under the Director of Mechanical Services and the lighter equipment fall under my director; that is Highways Division. Yes, it is a functional division, of course subject to funding, and of course, like the other problems associated with the maintenance of facilities. Building facilities fall under the Maintenance Division that is headed by a director of maintenance and also a director of construction. They are responsible for electrical works, plumbing and that sort of thing. So, we have various divisions with various responsibilities for maintenance, for facilities, for truck, equipment. The Director of Highways is responsible for the maintenance of the roadways and the highways. Under the Director of Highways, there are certain critical pieces of equipment that I still need to, of course, get jurisdiction for that. Most jurisdictions, under heavy equipment, fall under the Director of Mechanical Services, but of course, the box stops by me when it comes to repairs. Sometimes I have to provide funding that is not provided for by the Director of Mechanical Services. I am not sure if that answered your question. Mr. De Coteau: I just want to know if you have enough equipment, I mean, because in times of crisis, you may have to do a lot of rental. Mr. Ganesh: Well, I am glad you raised the crisis point because, of course, there is a need for more equipment. We do purchase new equipment every year based on the funding that we receive. But again, maintenance has always been a challenge—maintenance of equipment. We do not recommend that we buy all the equipment in the world, I mean, to deal with our roadway. There is a serious amount of contracting that we do and we recommend that that contracting remains in place because we are sure that when we contract equipment, it is working and it is functioning properly. The facility in the Ministry of Works for maintenance of equipment is not what it is supposed to be, and of course, like any other Ministry, we do outsource and we do encourage outsourcing for certain facilities and services.


86

Mr. De Coteau: I just want to ask: Do you have any intentions of sourcing a few buses with washroom facility? Mr. Grant: We are on the market right now to procure 35 CNG engine buses, but I do not think that was part of the specification. But I took note of your—[Interruption] Mr. De Coteau: So even the buses for the disabled do not have that facility? Mr. Grant: No, no, it does not. Disabled buses do not have that facility. Mr. De Coteau: The buses are somewhat disabled themselves. [Laughter] Mr. Chairman: All right. Thanks a lot. I would like to ask the group: Is there anything that you would like to bring to our attention that perhaps we did not raise that you think should be included in the report? Mr. James: Mr. Chairman, I would just like to sort of bring to the record, I recognize the limitations being identified by Members, and to indicate the many initiatives taken within the Ministry including the ones identified by Mr. Ganesh in terms of the road supervision, to improve the operationalization of the maintenance division—all the issues that have been identified. There is a commitment within the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure to address those operational issues and whatever shortcomings that exist. Mr. Chairman: All right. Anyone else? Okay, we would like to—[Interruption] Mr. Israel: Sorry, Mr. Chairman. I was not sure if you wanted an answer to a question that you had posed which was—[Interruption] Mr. Chairman: Which one was that? Mr. Israel: You were asking me personally if there was something that we needed from the committee specifically. Was it a question? Mr. Chairman: Yes, certainly if there is something that you think should be addressed. Mr. Israel: Okay, well, it just bears repeating. There is really only one thing, I mean, practically one can ask for: the recognition of the need for a national transportation plan which may in fact be together with a national spatial development plan—[Interruption] Mr. Chairman: I am glad you said that. [Laughter] Mr. Israel:—but some plan. That is all we are asking for. We are asking that it be recognized at the level of the Parliament. We have already recognized it at our level, but it is a difficult sell upwards. Mr. Chairman: All right. Thank you. That is certainly something that we would include in the report and address. I would like to thank you very much for what first: the documentation that you provided and for being here today and responding to our questions. Thank you very much. This meeting is now suspended. 12.50 p.m.: Meeting adjourned.

twelfth report - joint select committee on ministries ... · joint select committee on ministries,...

Documents