[14 OcTossa, 1920.)01

flied themselves of the accuracy of thestatements.

Thle MINISTER FOR EDUCATION: Ithas always been the practice for buildingand friendly societies to deposit their bal-ance sheets with the registrar, togetherwith such information as the Minister maydirect1 but this does not involve the Govern-ment in any responsibility. It is thepractice of the registrar to call attentionto anything which he considers to beu-regular or wrong. This is designed as anextra protection to the public.

Hon. J. Cornell The registrar is verystrict, too.

The -MINISTER FOR EDUCATION:Yes. If a building society got away withthe money of its members, there would beno obligation on the Government; but theregistrar does his duty thoroughly, and ifanything is wrong, he is very quick to directthe attention of the society to it.

Hon. A. Sanderson: I do not questionthat.

Clause put and passed.Clauses 35 to 52-agreed to.Progress reported.

BILL-WESTRALLIAN MEAT WORKS.

Assembly's Message.Message fromn the Assembly received and

read notifying that it had agreed to theamendment made by the Council.

House adjourned at 5.48 pa.

legislative !losemblv.,Thursday, 14th October, 19.00.

Questions: Oil, legislation-------------1013Wheat-i, Bulk handlIng ; 2, Msarkettfg, [fly-

meats, guarantees. etc................1012Tiler, losses In conversion...............1014Electoral eattva-1......................1014Northaninton Afid, survey.................1014Nationalist Commission, report .. 1.. 014

Leave of amsiee................ .... 1015HUl%: Pu'1ic Service Appeal Board, further report 1015

Parliament (Qualification of Women) returned 1015Carriers, returned..............015Supply (N-o. 2) £C350,000, retur........1015Lunacy Act Amendment, 2n..... ........ 1015Westralian Mfeat Works. Council's Amendment 1018

Annual Estimates. votes and items discussed . j016

The SPEAKER took the Chair at 4.30p.m. and read prayers.

QUESTION-MOL LEGISLATION.Mr. PICKERING asked the Minister for

Wines: 1, When will the Oil Bill, promised.to the deputation that waited upon him, heintroduced? 2, Is hie aware that suggestionshave been made to the Commonwealth Gov-ernment to declare petroleum a Commtron-wealth monopoly in the Empire's interest?3. Will he safeguard the interests of thleState by anticipating Commonwealth legis-lation?

The MUISTEIR FOR MINES replied:1, Conditions under which prospecting foroil will be regulated and under which areaswill be provided are to be introduced ina Bill to amield the Mining Act, togetherwith other necessar~y amendments, such asto provide better methods of tributing, andlwill be bronght before the House at an earlydate. 2,' I ami not aware that it is proposedthat the Colmmionwealth should claim it as amonopoly in the sense that only the Corn-snonweaith Government wonld be entitledto work it. I think this would requirean amendment of the Federal Constitution.It has long since been suggested that aUloil should be reserved to the Crown inorder to protect the interests of the Empire,and this is not being overlooked in thedraft. This does not imply that leases willnot ho grated but the conditions of work-ing same shall be such as serve the bestinterests of the Crown and the Empire, par-licularly the Navy and the British ifercan-tile Marine. 3, Answered by No. 2.

QUESTIONS (2,)-WHEAT.

Bulk Handli-ng.Air. GREFFITFES asked the rremier: 1,

Will lie inform the House when the rnes-sary legislation will be introduced in re-gard to the installation of the hulk hand-liag of wheat? 2, Is he aware that it ismost imperative to enact the necessary legis-lation so that ito time may be lost in get-ting the system working?

The MINISTER FOR WORKS (for thePremier) replied: 1, I am informed by theChairman of Directors of the Grain Grow-ers Elevators, Limited, that the companydoes not wish the Bill introduced this ses-sion. 2, Answered by No. I.

Marketing, Payments, G,'atren tee. e.Mr. MALVEY asked the Premier: 1. FS h.--

aware that harvesting operations have al-ready commncned in some districts, owinet tothe escceptionally early season? 2, If so, whenis it intended to introduce the necersary legr-islation to control the marketing of wheat?.3, 'What financial arrnngenments have beenmade in regard to payment upon delivery ofwheat at sidings for the present harvesti 4,What amount per bushel is it proosed to ad-vance, and what date is being fixed to comn-mnenee taking delivery? 5, What were the

1013

1014 ASSEMBLI.}

receiving flates for delivery at siidinlgs ill conl-nieetion liftl each of the previews wheatpols G, What were the original advancespoer bushel iaode on udelivere at siding, andthe dates and anmunts. of subsequent pay-mients in eiiflectioui with enAch individualwheat pool? 7, What were the guaranteedprices per lthel by either State or FederalGovernments in vonineetion with the pre-vious wheat pools? 9, lbas an *y guarnteebeen give,, for thev iirescut lharvecst? q, Asthle Westerh Atistralian wheat pools arestated to lie in cu-edit, when is it proposed tomake a1 fairther paymeut in connection there-withb0

Thel 3Mt NISTIUl FORt WORKS (for thePremnier) re, liedl: 1, Na. Cuttinig for hay,is in oja-rat ionl, but we have no knlowledgeP

osril. 2, At ouve, 3, It is antcl aefinancial ara-angeaneuts u-ill lie fifalisetl at theAustrallin Wheat Board C'on ference to beheld onl thle 20th October, 19211. 4, knuolintof advance wvill probably be determined atsuch conference. Date of delivery noet yetfired. -5, As early as possible for the fisttwo pools;, 1st Januiar y for 107-71S, 1-5thDecember for 1918-14., and 1st December for1919-20. 6, The original advances made on.delivery to the respective pools were--1915-16, 3s. less freight; 11916-17, 2s. 6d. tet;1917-18. 3s. net; 1918-19, 4-., 4d. less freight;1919-20, 5s. net. The dates and amiounts ofsubsequent payments for each 1poo1 Were;-191-5.16: 2nA advance, 21st September, 1916,6d. per bushel; 2rd advance, I 9th April,1917, 6d. per bushel; 4th advance, 2ndJuly, 1917, 3d. per busvhel; 5th advance, 1-501.Tunc,, 1918,, 1!'4d. per bushel. 1916-17: 2ndadvance, 1st August, 1917, 6d. per bushel;3-rd advance, 15th July, I91S, 3 d. perbushel; 4th advance, 30th September,1 1919,Od. less freight. 1917-18; 2nd advance, 153thAugust, 1918, 3d. per bushel; 3rd advance,B0th September, 1919, Ad. less freight; 4thadvance, 1st M1arch, 1920, G d. per bushel.1918-19: 2nd advalice, 1st March, 1920, Gd.per bushel. 1919-20, 2nd adlvance, 18th JuI.ne,1920, 2s. 6d. less freight. 7, The pricesguranteed. were;-19l7-1S, 4s. net.; 1018-19, 4s. 4d. less freight; 1919-20, Ss. nact.' 8,The Commonwealth Government have anl-nounced a guarantee of S1s. per buishel for1920-21 harvest. 9, it is anticipated thatfurther paynents on last four pools will bemnade in Western Australia onl the 23th of thepresent month.

QUESTION-TIIER. LOSSESR INCONY-VRISTON.

M\r. (IRIFFfTHS asl'ed the Mfinister forWorks; 1, Is it rorav,-t that two out of everythree loads of hardwood put iii to the saw-liil .,( into the furiaces and arc thus atotal ln~s! Io thle State? 2. What amiount,auipror-iniately. is thu; alestrored carla yearat the m1ills. State an~d rivfltely ownied? -3,Cannrt some1thinaz l,e done? to cut out thislossj 4, Are invest iga tions still being madeto rsv- tile valuable by-prodlucts of snch

tinuier by distillation? 5, Cannot somethingtoe1 done to make available some of this tim-he-r for rough butilding purposes iii outbackdistricts, n-here the local timbier is uselessonl account of its liability to ravages by thewhite ant?

The M.IENISTER FOR WORKS replied:1, No. 2, At the State sawmills 20 to 33 perenllt, is destroyed iii the fire chute; about 20I-er cent, goes out ais sawdust and is alsobur-nt. Ilave no information re5liettiiig pri-'ately owned mills..3, Repeated endleavourshave beenL mad1(e to cult out tile loss. 4, Woodol istillation plants iii Australia before the"%ar showedl a loss, but matters have sinceO tered, anl eritainl parties accuistolledl to thebusine11ss air n1ow 1inquiring as to the feasi-liilitv of' erecting Woodf distillatioi plants atet-irfiun of the ruills. 5, All timber of anyservice is now utilisedl, and %That goes into.the tiren-bute is heart, gun]i, or dIrv rot tiln-[ci, wieaid would bie unsulitable ta fanners.

QU RST [ON-ELECTORAL CANVASS..%Jr. LUTE3Y asked the Attorney General;

Se~eing that comnpulsory enrolment has nowrbeen made law, is it the intention of theCovernmlent to cause a houise-to-house can-v-ss to lie mnade for the purpose of puttingnmes onl the rolls prior to the general elec-tions?

The ATTOj()RNE~Y GENERALJ replied: Itw-ill he iiecessary to ]Lave anl efficient canvass2i1-041C in populous ccatres or where there isa changing population, and thle Governmeatitend to have this done inl order to purifythe rolls before the general election.

QU EST ION-NORTH AM2PTON FIELD,SUJRVEY.

Mr. MIALEY asked the Minister for)Iines; 1, Has any proper geological surveybeen mnade of the Northampton mineralfield ? 2, If not, owing to the known de-posits of lead, copper, graphite, and potash,the extensive salt deposit at Port Gregory,and the indications of oil and coal in thedistrict, will he have this most importantwork uadertakcen?

Tile MtINISTER FOR MNTN ES replied; 1,Yes. Geological Bulletin No. 9, 1903, andat the same time a two-sheet geological map,which is one of the most comprehensIve indetail ever issued, was published and hasbeen obtainable at the departmnat. 2, Anofficer of the Geological Survey DepartmentIs leaving for Northampton next week andlany adilitional. data and information on thispart of the field will be available.

QUESTION-NATIONALIST COML-MISSION, REPORT-

Ron. P. COLLIER (without notice) askedthe 'Minister for 'Works4, in the absence of'the Premier; When will the report of thbRo~yal Commission on the 'Nationalist Work-

1014

[14 Oc~roaza, 19j loi

ers lie laid onl the Table of the House? Attire coin eaeenicnt of thle session tbe Premnierioiiiised the House that be would lay thereport on the Table, but since then threemonthbs have elapsed and we have not yetsen it.

The MINISTER FOR WORKS: This isa matter for the Premier to deal with, andI will bring it before his notice on his in-turn. In the meantimie inquiries wiB; bemlade so that the Premnier may have all theinformation at bnnd when he returns.

LEAVE OF ABSENCE.On motions by 'Mr. 0 Loghlen leave of ab-

sence for twoe weeks granted to "Mr. Holman(Murchison) on time ground of ill-health, andto -Mr. Wilson (Collie) on the ground ofurgent private business.

BILL-PUBLIC SERVICE APPEALBOARD.

Further report of Committee adopted.

BILLS (3) RETURNED.

II, Parliament (Qualification of women).

2, Carriers.I, Supply (Noc. 2), £050,00b.

Without amendment.

BiLL-LUNIACY ACT AIMENDIMENT.Second Reading.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY (ron. F.'-T. Broun-Beverley) [4.45] ia moving thesecond reading said: The principal objectsof the Bill arc to constitute an independentboard of visitors for every institution forthe detention of the insane, to improve theprovisions regarding the release of patients,and partienlarly to vest in the board of visi-tors power to discharge patients wheneverthey think fit. Another object is to giveattendlants, who have been fined any amountexeeding £1 or who have been dismissed,a right of appeal to the board of visitorsagainst the decision of the Inspector Gen-eral, and the decision of the board is to befinal. The board will consist of five members,two of whom will he medical practitioners,one a legal practitioner, one a lay woman andone a lay manl. 'Members of the board areto hold office for three years and no longer.Any member many resign or many be removedfrom office by the CGovernoir within thatperiod if necessary. If it is found that anymember of the board is not suitable or dloesnot attend to his duties, he may he removed]from the board by the Governor in Council.Menlbers, of the board will be eligible for re-appointment after the term of three years.Provision is made for one board to he ap-pointed to control two or more insfitutions.This is necessary because we at present have

wnore than line nstitutioni, and it is con-sidered that one board should be well ableto attend to them. The members of theboard shall receive such fees as cnnmy be pre-scribed by regulation ouit of moneys appro-priated by Parliamtent. In other words, thesefees will be fixedi by regulation after thepassing of the measure, The board wvill beempowered to make regulatioas prescribingthe procedure andI method to be followed andobserved in thie transaction and performaaceof the boprrd's business. The board is tovisit the institutions ait least once a month.If necessary they will visit more often. Sec-tion 95 of the existing Act will be repealed,and it is propoosed to insert the following inits stead-

(1.) Thme hoardl of lay institution or amaujority (whit shall include a medicalpractitioner) of such board shall, once atleast in every mionth and also ait suchother times as the Minister may direct-(a) visit suich institutioni with or withoutany previouis notice and at such hours ofthe day or night and for such length oftime as they ziay think fit; (b) inspectevery part of Suich institution and everyouthouse thqreof whethler commuid eatingtherewith or detacbed therefrom; (c) seeevery patient confined therein so as to giveeveryone, so far as possible, full oppor-tunity of complaint; (d) inspect and con-sider, so far as may be deemed necessary,the orders, requests, and certificates relat-ing to the patients; (e) make such in-quiries, examinations, and inspections asare set forth in section eighty-seven of thisAct; (f) eater in the Inspector General'sbook a minute of the then condition ofthe institution and such other remarks asthey may deem proper.

Provision is made for the report followingeach visit to be transmitted to the Ministerwho is charged with the administration ofthe Act. While the anmendument of Section104 gives the board power to discharge pat-ients, it provides that a majority of thehoard shall include a medical lpractitioner.J his is necessary. The nmedlical practitionersappointed to the board will be quite lade-pen dent of the officials of thle institution,and should there arise any occasion when theInspector General or Superintendent dis-

are with the decision of the badtrelease a patient, the final decision will restwith tile beard. There are other minoramendments which are consequential on thesealterations. Clause 14, which amends Sec-tion 181, is intended to increase the Severityof tile punishment for offences dgainst femalepatients in order to bring the law into bar-niony with that relating to offences againstimnbeciles and idiots as provided by Section7 of the Criminal Code Amendment Act,191S.

Hon. P. Collier:, Will thle board consist ofhonorary or paid memibers?

The GOLONTATs SECRETARY: I havealready stated that the board will be paid,.-

1015

1016 (ASSEMBLY. 3

and that their fees will be prcsdribed byregulation. Of course the medical men willhave to be paid much more than the laymen.At present the members of the board ofvisitors are paid £E50 a year, hut the fees tothe new board will have to be much higherbecause the members of the board- will berequired to visit the institution at least oncea month. The new board will be faced witha considerable amount of work, especially inthe early stages, and it will be necessary topay the members of the hoard a fair salary.The measure is very plain, and the clausesare self-explanatory. I move-

That the Bill be now read a second time.

On motion hy 'Ron. P. Collier, debate ad-.iourned.

BILL-WESTRAIJIAN 1EEAT WORKS,Council's Amendment.

Amendment made hy the Council nowconsidered.

In Committee.

Mr. Stubbs in the Chair;, Mr. Willeock incharge of the Bill.

The CHAIRMAN: The amendmentreads-

Clause 2, line 5, after the word "coin-pany" insert the words ''or as soon asfifty thousand shares have been appliedfor.''Mr. WILLOOCK: The Council considered

that a free hand should not be given to anycompany, because it might be quoted as aprecedent for making certain pro-%ision inarticles of association and then seeking togo behind them. The first 60,000 shareshave been applied for, and it was thoughtthat no hardship would be caused if thecompany were authurised. to go to allot-meat when 50,000 shares had been appliedfor. The company have no objection to theprovision, seeing that it has already beencomplied with. I move-

That the Council's amnendment beagreed to.Question put and passed; the Council's

amendment agreed to.

[The Speaker resumned the Chair.]

Resolution reported, the report adoptedand a message accordingly -returned to theCeunciLh

ANNUAL EST[MATES, 1920-21.

In Committee of Supply.

Resutmed from the 12th October, Mr.'Stubbs in the Chair.

Department of Mfines (Hfon. J. Scaddan.Minister):

Vote-Miucs, £67,667:

The INISTER FOR MILNES (Hon. JScaddan-iAlbnny) t4.57J: in introducingthese Estimates, there is very little, afterthe discussion en the Address-in-reply andother matters which have been before theChamber this session, that one can add withregard to inining operations in WesternAustralia. We have discussed the mattersaffecting the industry almost from A to Z,but quite naturally members, together withthe general public who are interested inmining, expect that something should besaid by the Minister when introducing hisEstimates, because he controls largely thedevelopment of our great mineral industry.In the compilation of the Estimates thereis little or no change from previous years.I do not know whether I can take credit forthat or otherwise. I suppose these are timeswhen changes are anticipated and mnight bemade with advantage. Whether this is thecase or not in this instance, I think there isvery little that can ha done by way ofchange which can ha effective, except thegiving of greater encouragement to pros-pect new fields and greater assistance todiscover new finds. At the present junc-ture we are suffering from what has beenalmost a disease in late years, a decline inthe gold yield, and for t'he moment I can-not see how we can prevent that declinefor some little time to come. There arequite a number of contributing causes to thedecline during the last 12 months, amongother things tho disturbed industrial con-ditions. There was a strike on the woodllines which lasted from the 1st July till the17th Atigust of las It year, and which necessi-tated the closing dlown of the hig producingmines for that period. Then there was adisaqrreemeot between the uliiiofl5 in Wal-goorlie, which had the effect of furtherclosing down the mines from the 6th No-vem"ber till the 7th January. Th at, ateourse, had a very serious effect on thegold yield, as the hulk of our gold is ob-tained from the mines at Kalgoorlie. Alsowe have to take into account the fact thatthe old mines at Kalgoorlie in particularare working down at greater depths. Theyhave to operate at increased costs andnaturally must do more in the nature ofpicking their ore than was the case pre-viously, with the result that the quantityof gold really recovered is now not so greatas it was before. Then we have suffered.andi still suffer, from the lack of efficientl ab our. It cannot be denied that if agreater number of skilled mninerA4 were avail-able, any amount of employment could befound for them in our various mines. Inaddition there is the fact that quite anumber of new finds have be?ni made duringthe lest year or two, with the result-ofwhich we cannot complain--of withdraivinq-afair percentage of skilled lal-.our from

the zolil'-proiducing mines for develonmentwork on the new finds, which. moreover,have been largely in the district surrond-ing Kalgoorlie, where the greatest numb-,

1016

[14 OCTOBER, 1920.1 11

of miners are employed. Hampton PlainsSt. Ives, and Mount Monger have all witi.drawn miners from the Golden 'Mile, wher.the gold producers are. Although thesi-miners are engaged in the profitable oceupation of opening up new mines, the hemfit of that is not reaped at once; in fact,initially the tendency is in the oppositedirection. While people are naturally elatedat the new finds, they must expect, side 1)side with those discoveries, a fall in thltgold production as the result of the with-drawal of labour from gold producingmines. Notwithstanding this, however, westill hold pride of place in gold productionas regards Austratasia; we are producin-over 50 per cent. of the total gold thatproduced in Australasia, including NewZealand. For the nine months of the cur-rent year we have produced about 455,000ounces of fine gold, of an approximate valueof two millions sterling. That is not quiteas good as the eorrespouding productionfor the previous year; but, taking into Re-count the conditions which I have men-tioned, we can at least say that our de-cline is not a real one. Probably theproduction will recover to some extent dur-ing the next few years. Of couree, whengold is taken from the ground, it can-not be replaced. Mfining is not likefarming conditions, in wich one obtainscrops year after year, and where one ob-tains continuously larger crops by the appli-cation of agricultural science. An ounce ofgold once taken out of thre ground cannot beput back again, and sooner or Inter the biggold producers must peter out, thugh I donot for a moment suggest that they are any-where near that point yet. 'When in Sal-goorlie some months ago, I was advised] thatthe present developments on the Golden Mileshow something like 50 million pounds worthof gold to be taken out from known develop-mients. Further, I was informed that fromsonc of the dumps on the Golden 'Mile aboutthree million pounds worth of gold will horecovered. So there is no occasion yet foralarm. We have, moreover, to hear in mindthat probably other fields which are nonnearly in the developmental stage will re-place some of the hig mines when these peterout. During the period of the war the priceof gold did not increase, but the industryhad to carry the burden of additional costs.Moreover, there is the fact that the warwithdrew many skilled mineis from the in-dustry, with a consequent detrimental effecton our gold Production. This takes sometime to recover, and it has act yet been fullyrecovered. During the year 1919 the cost ofproduction in the gold -mining industry in-creased probably even more than during thewar period; and had it not been for the factthat a bonus was paid on gold during thatperiod, there is considerable question whethera number of our mines could have continuedto operate. The bonus, undoubtedly, saveda number of them from closing down. 'The

number of men engaged in maining has de-creased to an alarming extent since 1914. Inthat year mining employed over 12,000 men,whereas in 1919 it employed only somethingover 7,000 men, showing a decline of 'about42 per cent, since the commencement of thewar. So far, I regret to say, there is no evi-dence of that decline being made good. AsI hare stated, the skilled miners are notavailable. Quite a number of mining dis-tricts are to-day languisljng for skilledminers and cannot obtain them. It is truethat a not inconsiderable percentage of theminers who have abandoned the industrywere compelled to do so because the condi-tions attaching to it made such inroads ontheir health that they had to seek fresh fields-in ninny cases, unfortunately, they tookthat step too late to recover from the illeffects which they had suffered. One knowsthat the disease attaching to the occupationof a mner may not be felt by him at alluntil it is too late to make anything in thenature of a good recovery. Miners go onworking year after year feeling quite well,and being quite convinced that their healthis good; and then suddenly they break downand find themselves gone to such an extentas to be no longer fitted even for light em-ployment. One problem we have to solve ishow we can save a great number of minerseven from themselves. I suppose all gold-fields members have had the experience ofnmeeting in the street a man who has beenengaged in mining for a number of yearsand remarking to him that he is not lookingquoite fit, u-hereupon the riiner will reply thathe never felt better in his life. Then, afterthe lapse of a few weeks perhaps, one meetsthe same man and learns that he is done forwork. It is an economic waste to permitsuch a manl to continue in the mining indus-try until the time when he is unable to doany class of work whatever. The suggestionhas heen made to me that the State Govern-mient should do in the case of miners whatthle Federal Government are doing in theease of returnedl soldiers; that the StateGovernment should introduce a system of re-patriation, so to speak, for miners no longerable to continue in that industry

Mr. Foley: Vocational training.The 'MINIST ER FOR MINVES: Yes, and

also steps to remove the men from the minesbefore they get into a condition which ren-ders them useless for ever after. I knowthere is a great deal of difference of opinionamong the miners themselves as to whethercompulsion should be employed in this mnat-ter.

Hon. P. Collier: That is practically whatobtains at Broken Hill.

The MINISTER FOR 'MINES: Yes. Wehave to accept the position that if we takethe responsibility of making a man leavean occupation in which he has been en-gaged all his life-and a miner veryseldom can see another outlook one he hasstarted in his particular business-we mustaccept the further responsibility, somewhat

1017

1018 [ASSEMBLY.]

in tine same way as the Federal Governmentaccept it in the case of returned soldiers, offinding some occupation by means of whichthe man can live in reasonable comfort.The -method of solving the problem, in myopinion, is a proper appreciation of the factthat these men are valuable to us. If theminning iudustry cannot carry the wholeburden, then I think the State is sufficientlyinterested to carry a1 portion of it.

Mr. flnderwood: Why should the Statecarry any portion of it?

The MINISTER FOR MINES: Becauseif the industry is burdened to such an ex-tent that it cannot carry on but must closedown, then the State would lose more thanby accepting portion of the responsibility.Ivdeed, I do not know that the State wouldlose much by enabling a man to continue toproduce wealth instead of allowing him, tocontinue as a miner until hie arrives at astage when be cannot do any work at allbut probably must becoue an inmate ofthe Wooroloo Sanatorium. In many casesa man if taken ont of tine mining industrya year or two earlier, canl earn a living atsonme other ennploynment, possibly with someassistance front the State. By the adoptionof such a system the State would gain agreat deal. It is one of the problenms thatwe must face in the very near future.

Mr. Lutey: Why not have all annual in-spection of the miners?

The MINISTER FOR 'MINES :Thatprobably may be one way out, but I am notquite sure that the miners themselves areyet prepared to accept that proposal with-out objection. I have heard it suggestedfor many years, hut I have just as oftenbeard it strenuously opposed by minersthemselves.

Mr. Mlunsie: They object to it unless someother provision is wade for them, and quiteright too.

The MINUISTER FOR MINES : Cer-tainly. It is useless to comipel thle men toconie out of the mines unless thle State isprepared to find then some satisfavtory'employment, and therefore we must sooneror later establish a kind of repatriationdepartment to enable these miners to adoptsome other occupation. Whten that has beenarranged, we may be able to adopt thesuggestion of the member for Brownhill-Thanhoc (Mr. Lutey) of an ainnual inspec-tion with a view to withdrawing affectedThen from the mines before it is too late.Apart fromt gold production, we have toremember that this State has other mineralswhich are undoubtedly of great value to it.Taking the entire mineral production ofWestern Australia as compared with tbeentire mineral production of the EasternStates and New Zealand. we are still prac-ti-cally second on the list. Last year NewSouth Wales produiced nearly' 10 millionpounds' worth of minerals, but included inthat amount was coal to the value of nearly51/2 millions. Western Australia producedlast year minerals Of a total v'alue of over

3Y. millions sterling. The next produceris Queensland with 23/2 millions, and Tas-luania is fourth with one million. 'Victoria'sproduction was about thne same as that ofTasmania. South Australia was last on theAustralian list with a total of less than, onemillion. New Zealand's production was justa little more than that of Western Australia,lbut included in Newv Zealand's total of fourmillions was nearly three million pounds'worth of coal. This is evidence that thetotal mineral production of this State is anlenormous benefit to Western Australia as awhole. Sometimes we are inclined to sug-gest that the State is not doing its part inencouraging the mining industry. -Membersmay be interested to learn the result ofsonme ilnquiries I mlade in this connectionrecently. I find that we have over 30 StateIbLtteries operating, making a total of 205lInad of stamps; and that plant is operatedfor only 151/2 per cent, of its time. Thecapital expenditure on State batteries tofte end of 1919 amounts to £1,210,000. Thegross lois onl working to thle end of 1919was £:639,000. That is a fact which is notv ery- often cited. The value of the outputof tine ',tate batteries from their inceptionto the end of 1019 has been £5,244,000 worthof gold. Under the Mining DevelopmentAct tile State lose made advances, and theamount of those advances outstanding atthe end of 1919 on account of leaseholdersivas £e21,766, and on account of assistancein working batteries and treatment plants

apart from State batteries £C22,750, and onaccount of assistance for boring £.644. Thusthe total of outstanding advances is £45,162.The Government's contributions towardsthe advancement of the mining industry, in-eluding a debit on our revenue account of£765,000, a loss on the operation of Statebatteries of £639,000, and outstanding ad-vances of £45,162, represent a total, inactual cash, of £1,450,000. Practically amillion and at half of money has beengiainted by the Government in the way ofdirect assistance to mining. That is since

V' inception of the policy of assistance toiuning. I want it to be clearly understoodthat this million and a half do~es 'not meanthe amount of assistance rendered by theState to mining, hut the amount ofactual cash outstanding on this account.[t is as wrell to point out that during thetime this assistance was rendered, gold wallproduced to tile -value of 148 millions sterl-ing, and dividends were paid amounting toever 27'/, millions sterling, while, in addi-tion, other expenditure in wages, stores, andlso on paid over in Western Australiaamounted to 114 millions sterling. So itwill he seen that the gold production inWestern Australia, notwithstanding the 1 4millions sterling I' have mentioned, is oftremendous value to the State. I do not wantto repeat what everyone knows and reiteratethat it was the discovery of gold and itsbig production lix the early days that hadthe effect of drawing attention to Western

1018

[14I OcToBER, 1920.] 01

Australia and, was thle forerunner of thotagricultural industry of which we are all soproud. But I want to mention thcse factsto show that it cannot be claimed that thleGovernment have not given fair considera-tionk to thle mining industry. Givingassistance to the mining industry is anentirely different proposition fronu thatOf giving assistan,-e to any other in-dustry. For instance, wVe mlay give assist-once to a mnine on account of the valuableproducts being derived from the workingsover a given period. If the mine suddenlyPeters out, the State does not recover dir-eetiy the assistance rendered to it. But thebest assistance rendered is that given in theearly stages, not merely from the point of'jeow of providing prospectors withf susten-an-e, tamping outfits, pick and shovel andso oil, hut fr-ont thle poin~t of '-iew of thle newfield, providing a wvater supply, potting it,tracks, and lending every assistance neces-sary to enable thenm to cope with their initialdevelopmnent. It is Important that our 'niinesshall be able to get over that stage, and ifwe cannot rendler that assistance, we fail asa State. [it the first instnce, the miningindustry is much the same as the agricul-tral industry. A ['un goes onl thle landfirst and he gets prov-ision for water supply,fencing and clearing operations, for all ofwhicl, lpirlio~es hie gets credit. It was to dealwith this that the Agricultural Bank wasestablished. It should be much the samewith mining. When we get a new find, it isesseutiall that we should open up) trackis, putin wa.ter supplies, auid do other things neces-sary- , so as to enable the producing stage tobe reached. Then the assistance given couldbe withdraw,, Without ,nutcl hardhip beingdlone.

,Ar. I '.le 'v: They coul'l get their watersupply more qui-kly at one time than theycan now

The 'MINISTER FOR 'MINES: I do uiotthink that is fair. There are differentopinions on that point. For a considerableperiod the watter supply to the mnines wasdirectly under the Mines Department andwas not looked upon as a revenue earningdepartment. That was changed, I think, dur-ing the Labour Government's regime, andwe put the water supply matters nder onecontrol. The principle underlying that changewas the corrett one, in nmy opinion. Insteadof hav-ing engineers from different depart-ments going out to make investigations andsubmitting reports, we now have thenm allunder one head and some system is broughtinto play, from which standpoint alone con-siderable savings have been made. It hastbeenno infrequent sight in the past to have a darnestablished to provide for the requirementsof one department and quite close at handanother dam established to serve the pur-poses of another department. Our purposewas to so arrange matters that such inci-dents as these should not occur. It is notthe intention even now to look upon themines water supply as a revenue earning de-

partment but as a means for making pro-vision for prospectors, and assisting them intheir work.

Haon. T. Walker: Unfortunately that isnot always considered.

The IIKISTER FOR MIN]DES: Itmust not be forgotten that the positionto all intents and purposes, only arose dur-ing the last 12 months or so. We werenot doing much in the way of new dis-coiveries prior to the war, or during thewar, but since then returned soldiers andother prospectors have been sent out andhave been, making new discoveries. I ad-mit that there has been somte delay in makingthe necessary provision for water suppliesand so on, for the reason that the Minister forWorks, who is in charge of the Water SupplyDepartmtent, was entitled to consider properreports anid consider the advisability of pro-viditig money from a revenue standpoint. Hewns entitled to take that matter into con-sideration. But quite recently we changedthat policy and now tite Mines Water Supply])epartmnt is to continue its old policy ofmaking available thepse necessary provisions,the Treasurer is to lIe respousilble for find-ing the flunds for the Mines D~epartment, andthe Minister for Water Supply is not to cnrrythe respottsihility, of the expenditure from'iits revenue earning aspect. This change hasalready proved beneficial. Only during thelast weeck Or two I halve had a report fromthe superintendent of batteries, who was atSt. Tres. Ito intimated that M.Nr. [yes, whowas the fondet- of tile St. Tves field, desiredto inform me that lie knew of no ease, al-though he had been engaged in mining fornmnny ye"ars, where tlte 17overnment lhad ren-dered more expeditiously or better the neces-sary' assistance, than hadl been the case itSt. h-es. iie sild that we could not havedlone miore fin the circumstances. At MountMonger much the samte position arose. Therewas noe provision there for water supplieswhen gold was first discovered, and an agi-tatio,, soon arose for the Governnment to makearrangeinents for the use of water fromt Cree-dIon 's dam. That (Ia... hadl been erected byMr. ('reedlon for pastoral purposes hut "-asutilised in the early days of the fields. Acertain quantity of water has been used butwe have found that nut so much as had] beensuggested would be used, has been taken fronmthe dam. Mr. Creedon has dlone very wellout of it. however.

Mr. Mlunife :Well, the country did wellout of it.

Thle MNINISTER FOR MNIXES: I ain notsuggesting that is not so.

Hon. P. Collier: rt was a good dleal onboth sides.

The M,%INISTER FOR 'MINIES: Perhapsso, but the fact remains that .np,,tol*the pre-sent the developmnent on theSieW-s hans notbeen as great as was anticipated. There bas; .,,ot been that progress made uip there thatwas expected. In matters like this, however,the State nmust take risks and assist thosewho are prepared to take their share of risk

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in opening up fields to-day. We must realisethe tremendous advantage to the State whichour, gold production has been. We are en-titled in the circumstances to say to theseprosp~ectors, and others engaged in the de-velopment of these mines, "If you have suffi-cient confidence to go ahead with your work,we will reader you assistance by pirovidinga water supply."

Mr. Troy: The State takes no risk in pro-viding a water supply.

The MINISTER FOR MINES: No, verylittle, because even in the most remote areas,water supplies made available in the earlydays are to-day standing us in good steadand providing not only for those searchingfor gold, but for other things necessary forour well being.

Mr. Troy:- Including the sandalwoodgetters.

Hen. P. Collier: And prospectors all thetime.

The MINISTER FOR MINERS: Quite so.The '.lines Department has accepted the re-sponsibility of saying where these suppliesshball be provided and Mr. Ives, probably oneof the best and most experienced prospectorswo have to-dny, admits, quite without theslightest suggestion on the part of the Goy-erment or the department, that the Gov-ernment came to their assistance most ex-peditiously.

Mr. Foley: What about the engineer forwater supply?

The MINISTER FOR MINES: The en.gineer, Mfr. O'Brien, has not been doing somuch work on mnines water supply as before,but it is not fair to blamie 'Mr. 0O'Brien. Thepolicy has, to somne extent, been changed, andI have no hesitation in saying that if Mr.O'Brien is provided withf funds, and is toldthat he is responsible for making early pro-vision for "water supply, Mr. O'Brien willprovide it all right, just as was the ease inthe early days.

.Mr. Hudson: Do you say that the MinesDepartment have taken over the respoilsi-bility of water supply?

The 'MINISTER FOR 'MINES: Yes, thatis the position. Mtembers will find two newitems appbearing in this year's Estimates;they are Nos. 127 and 128. No. 127 is

Subsiclising researches for advancemjent ofmineral industry, £E1,000;'' and No. 1-28 is:''Cutting tracks and other necessary works1on goldfields, not provided elsewhere, £500.''These two items9 will mean a great deal tothe industry so far as new fields. are con-cerned. I am under the impression that sonmoof this money lins already been expended.

Mfr. M.%uncie: Has any of it been ex-pended at Hampton Plains?

The MINISTER FOR 'MINESi No, I do0not thifik'aa of that expenditure has comeout of this tote. In fact, I should say thatI do not really know whether this has beenactually drawn upon yet. One particularwork by the Works Department, it has beensuggestled, was a fair charge against thisrote. Unquestionably, the object we bad was

to cut a track to bring the mine within theshortest distance of the Eource of supplies.There are certain things which vie considershould be under the direction of the MXinesDepartment, whatever department may dothe work, and the responsibility of sayingwhere it shall be done should bo with the'Mines, Department and no other. In thecircumstances I believe that the introductionof such methods will prove more beneficialto the industry than the conditions formerlyobtaining.

'Mr. Troy: What about mining develop-ment?

The MINISTER FOR MINES: Thatcomes under the Loan Vote and we shouldnot mix up mines development, which comesfrom loan, with the cost of thie Mines De-partmnent, -'which comes, fromn revenue. Theformner position will be elaborated later onwhen the Loan Estimates are being con-side red. So far as it is possible to pro-vide practical assistance, it is the policyof the department to provide it, althoughsometimes we may not be certain that suchassistance rendered will be recouped to theState. For instance, take the mines devel-opmient vote. We changed the policy in con-nection with that aspect of the general ques-tion. but for years we carried on what wasknown as "p~lastering" t on a mining lease.IUnder this system, advances were obtainedand after a certain amount of work wasdone, before anyone else could work it, theyhad to agree to recoup this amount so ad-vanced from their takings, notwithstandingthat they had secured no advantage fromthe previous expenditure. 'We lifted thisas time went on and we now encourage pros-pectors to go on the lease by lifting the em-bargo. Then take the position at PhillipsRiver, which presents some of the greatestdifficulties we have to contend with. Thepolicy appears to have been to render assist-an-c to small parties carrying on miningoperations.

Mr. 'Maley: Difficulty exists elsewhere.The MINESTER FOR MINES: We have

an extensive fieldh there known to be rich ingold and copper, hut the question of treat-inent is one thing and mining quite another.Unfortunately we have deliberately encouir-aged the development of the mines there, inorder to get as much as possible from themas quickly us possible, without asking thepeople to engage in proper mining withproper plant. During the last 12 months or

so we have advanced something like £5,000Oto Rinall parties, to assist in the developmentof that field. I am still of opinion that eventhat assistance will not have the desiredeffect, that unless there is an anzgregation ofeapital between a number of the mines thesmaller parties will never be able to worktheir shows profitably. The essential diffi-culty confronting the management of thesmelting works at Itavensthorpe is the secur-ing of sufficient ore to keep running for rea-sonably long periods. Necessarily the timeof running is very much broken, which means

1020

[14 Oc~osn, 1920.1 12

largely increased costs of working. Never-theless I am convinced that, properly worked,the Phillips River field will some day provea very valuable asset to the State. One ofour great diffit-ulties is the fact that we arecontinually making discoveries of variousminerals in remote parts of the State, wherethey cannot be worked as economically as; ifthey were in more favoured localities. Takethe recent discovery by Air. Labie of silverlead out from Bangemnall. Mr. Lamibie as-sures me that he has a very large deposit ofvaluable lead and silver ore, the analysis re-turning 44 per cent, of lead, and about 15eza. of silver. But if we take into accountthe remote position of that discovery andremember that there are no means of trans-portation, it becomes evident that it will bevery difficult to make it pay. Still, if thematerial is there in sufficient quantities, andof sufficiently high grade to pay with propertransport, then we must consider the supply-ing of the means of transport. I hope itwill be found on further development thatthere is there sufficient high-grade ore towarrant us opening uip the field. I do notthink it is any more remote from the sea-

*board than is Broken Hill. Of course it maynot be a Broken Hill, but the fact remainsthat to allow the field to be properly

*worked, transport facilities must be pro-vided. One of the methods suggested fordeveloping these remote properties is the pro-vision of up-to-date treatment plants, andrefining works in some central locality, towhich the ore from the remote districts maybe brought for treatment. Under auch ascheme it would be necessary to provide con-centrating plants in the several districts con-cerned. We know that in the case of copperit is a simple operation to decrease the quan-tity and increase the percentage, thus en-abling it to be economically transportedgr-eat distances to treatment works. If wecan do that with our silver lead until wedc-ternwine whether there is available a suffi-cient quantity to warrant the provision ofrailway communication, we shall be doing agreat deal for the remote mineral areas ofthe State. Extending from Meekatharra, toPort Hedland is a huge mineral belt -whichobviously must contain a tremendous amountof wealth. Under existing conditions it isnot possible to profitably work that area.It is largely a question of finding one or twosufficiently rich and extensive deposits towarrant the provision of railway facilities.Many of what are to-day struggling showscould be profitably worked if they had pro-per means of communication. Hon. membersknow that I have had] this matter of centraltreatment works in hand. Personally, Ishould prefer to see the co-operative systemintroduced], so as to enable those concernedin the production of hase Metals to take tioefirst interest in the treatment works Itself.I am not so certain that Government controiof treatment works is entirely satisfactory.However, we do not find much difficulty inlending financial assistance to a freezingworks company to produce wealth, and coo-

sequently I do not think wre ought to find Itimpossible to provide financial assistance toenable co-operative treatment workh; to beestablished for the handling of our basemetals. We shall never be able by purelyGovernment control to operate works of thatclass to the satisfaction of the producers.

Mr. Hundson: Did not the Commonwealth(invernmenit make some proposal?

The MINISTER FOR MINES: Yes, theFederal Government did make a proposal ofasistance, but they made it clear that whatthey had in mind was the lending, in conjunc-tion with the State, of assistance to co-opera-tive treatment Works. They consider thatthe nice directly interested should take someof the responsibility for the operation ofsuch works. I believe that many of or comn-panies, w-hen sufficiently wvell established,would1 cheerfully accept their share of thatresponsibility. One of the great difficultieswill he the selecting df a central site, ourbase metals being distributed over so largean area. I take the viewv that, when settled,this question ought to be settled oi the basisof establishing the works where they will beof greatest advantage to the men producingthe commodity. If we can get those mensufficiently interested, they will probablyovercome their parochial ideas and be guidedby the sole consideration of which will bethe best site for all in the industry. I amhopeful that at a conference of those inter-ested 1 shall get from them some idea ofwhat in their opinion should constitute thehest site for the works. In regard to thesub-departments, there is little or nothing tohec said, except that the Geological SurveyDepartment has almost reached vanishingpoint. At present some three members ofthe staff are doing all the field work.Whether or not that is desirable is a matterfor grave eonsideration. I know there aremany people who believe that geologists areof no value, simply because in some instancesthey fail. But no scientists are infallible,and f think our geologists have done a tre-mendous lot of work which has frequentlybeen of considerable advantage to those en.gaged in the mining industry. While on theone hand a newspaper circulating in the Yil-gan district declares that geologists are ofno value, when I was on the Murelison re-cently representations were made to me bythe Prospectors' Association, urging thatmore work should be d]one by the GeologicalSurvey Department, because the work of thatdepartment was of tremendous assistance tothe prospector. If the departmenrt was or-ganised on the basis of being more than asource of sientific fact, if it would bringdown the science to the level of the prac-tical and thus enable the pirospector to makeuse of the fncts disclosed by the geologicalsurvey, I think the geological survey staffcould be increased with considerable advant-age to the State. What T hope to be ableto do by bringing the prospector and thegeologist into closer touch is thus to get theprospector to appreciate and report any dis-covery he might make likely to be of valueto the department. The trouble is that so

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manny of our ptrospectors go out into newcountry without any geological knowledgiof that vountry. Such a man uuibiiseiouslymight be walking over ground giving strongindications of containing rich minerals.

MNr, U'nderw-oodl: Tiat is 'not likely witha prospector "%ho knows his work.

The A3HNISTER FOR 3IN ES: The factremtains that a. large number of our pros-pectors lunrc done it. We linue endeavouredto supply them wvith inlormiatkon as to thegeological possibilities of a district beforethey go into that district, notwithstanding'whic-h the Geological Department has beencriticised for neglecting to disseminate in-formiation. Day after dlay I receive demandsthat further information should he madeavailalble from the (leological Departmentbe-fore big work is undertaken by miningcomlpanies. .%gain, when certain field workhas beent clone and geologival data obtained,we have great dlifficulty in getting the re--ports published and circulated. The ineniberfor Greenough (M. aley) knows that wehave bulletins supplying wide information inclose detail. We have one of the best gee.logical maps ever issued dealing with theNorthampton field, notwithstanding whichthe people of Northampton apparently knownothing about it. When I was on the Mtur-ehison recently the Prospectors' Associationwaited on, me and complained of want ofdata relnting to the . Meekatharra district.On, returning to Perth I had inquiries made,when I found that the very informationasked for was available, not onlyv in Perth,but at the mining registrar's office at MIt.Magnet. The mnember for Canning (Mr. Robin-son) when Minister for Mines bad a pam-phlet printed showing all the publicationsisqneui from the ines Department. T baresow instructed the tinder secretary to senda copy of that pamphlet, with other np-to-date inlformation, to every hon. ineniber, toto the mining registrars, and] to the Prospec-tors' Association, so that all available in-formation may be readily turned up.

MNr. Chesson: ft ought to he placed inthe mining registrar's office.

The MINISTER FOE M114 ES- That bazibeen done already. It is in the maining re-gistrar 's office at M.%t. 'Magnet.

Mr. Chess9on: Then it ought to he displayedin a ipronuineztt position.

The MNrSTTER FOR MIlNER: If' a pro-spector, when passing the door of the offle? ,cannot ask whether the information he re-quiires is available, hie has not muvih interestin his work.

MNr. Foley: If he were ;in enthusiasticprospeetur he would naturally go in andprospect.

The 'MINISTER FOE 'MINE.S: We arebaring that iancrhlet n-jdel '- distributed. Tinwrely mention these ]Points to emphasise thefact that our Geologieal Survey flaitiuentis called upon from time to time to imakea fiel survey, and supply data which nillenable miniig mane or prospvectors tobetter understand the field in which they' areworking. On tile other hand we very Ire-quentW~ hear it stated that the gooia

survey is of little or no value, boat. con-siulerahie time ago the department prepareda handbook of mining giving a gfreatamiount of valuable information in as muchdetail as possible, and that handbook hasbeen in the printer's hands, to my know-ledge,' for six or eight months. Apparentlyit is a most difficult task to get the wrkout. The Government Printing Office isWorking overtime continually; one can seethe light burning them-e at midnighmt. Every-thing has to take its turn in the printingoffice; the printers cannot be taken off moreUrgent work for the sake of the handbook.*Similarly, the geological reports have to wafituntil an opportunity presents itself to theGovernment Printer of getting them out.Let me point out, however, that these re-ports are alwvays made available to the Pressas soon as they are ready, and that the Presspublishes theni at considerable length. Theindlividual who is concerned wvith these re-ports does not take the opportunity of per-using themn at the time when they are pub-lished through the newspapers. But lateron ho sudcdenly becomes interested, and thenhe wants the report immediately. It is notfair always to blame the officials for some-thing that is due to a lack of alertness ontme part of the private person interested.I comntend that our Geological Survey Branchhave unquestionably done a great deal ofgoodI work, and that they will continue to dogood work if given the opportunity. I will.ai iit, liowever, that one essential is promptpublication of the reports made by the geolo-gists. Outside the two or three matters towhitch I Ihare referred in detail, I knowr ofnothing of moment that calls for mentionat the present time in connection with ourmining industry. Let me repeat that we haveto omake provision for the men who are uin-fortunately operating in an industry that isvery detrimental to health. If we compal-sorilv withdr-aw men from that industry, weare bound to find ways and means of en-abling them to take up other occnpations.I believe that course will prove the cheapereven if the tate has to some extent to assistdlisaled minlers, because they will then beplaced in a position to continue the pro~duc-tionL Of wealth, whereas under present condi-tions they become utterly helpless.

Hon. P. COLLIER (Boulder) [5.4711: Itis true, as stated by the Minister for Mines,that there is very little fresh that can hesaul regarding the industry. Unf ortunately,it is likewise true that the decline in thevalue of our gold outp~ut continues year byyea r. The drop in the number of men em.-ployed, as mentioned by the Minister, from12, ng in 1914, to 7,000 last year, is verysignificant, and it beomes even more signi-fleant w11en we remember that at the highwater niark of our mining industry, in 1002,the nnihmer of men employed was 16,000.To-day we are down to 7,000, and naturallythere lias beeni what may be termed a ec-rerpionVg rellution in output. It is very

1022

[14 OCTOBERa, 1920.] 12

-lifticult indeed to know what to do. With-out being unduly pessimistic, I suppose wemust look forward to the inevitable declineof the gold mtiaing industry. The Minis-ter 's statement that Western Australi stillproduees miore than .50 per cent, of the goldyield of Australia shows that in recent yearsthe Eustern States have suffe'red a reductionof gold outpmut currespondingly in propor-tion to tile reduitct here, because for nmanyyears this State 's gol production has beenjust aver 230 per t-ent. of that of the wholeof Australasia. [ suppose the gold miningiiidustry has suffered, by reason of thle war,miore than -any other industry that was ableto keep) going at all. The prices of all min-ing requis ites increased enormously, and Ofcourse the increaised cost of living has hadlits effect on the golddields. Until about ayear ago these increases could not be passedon by thle gold mining industry in the sameway as is done by other industries, for thereasou that the price of gold remained sta-tionary. In fact, the gold inting industrysuffered very much until the embargo on theexport of gold was removed and the pricerose. But for that fact some of our largerproducing mines would] have had to ceaseoperations. The outlook is somewhat dark,be-ause the increased price of gold canhardly continue. Certainly it will notcontinue permanently. If we should getback again to the old standard, thenthe industry, in view of the costspiled upon it, will be in for a verybad time indeed. The Minister spokeof the difficulty experienced in securingefficient labour for the mines. It is a faetthat oult of the large number of men whowent fromt our goldfields to the Front eons-paratively few have returned to the goldmining industry. Their experience in thewar and what they saw of other countriescreated in their minds-and T do not wonderat it-a dislike for the conditions insepar-able fromt a lminer's existence. Hundreds of

Our miners upon their return fromt the warwent to seek fresh fields in the Eastern.States. It is true, of conurse, that the dis,-coveries adjacent to Kalgoorlie and Boulderhave drawn many mnen fromi the older anddeeper mines on the Colden MNile. The menwere only too glad of an opportaity to getout of the dust-laden deep. mines into theopena air or into the comparatively shallowmines of the new fields. I vcnture to assertthat no section of thle Australian communityhas borne proportionkately a larger share ofthe war burdens than the men employed onlthe gowfields. I say that more particularlyin view of the fact that while the rises inlthle cost of living have been followed by in-creases in wages in all other industries, thisfloes not hold good of our gold mining in-dustry'. Tile only section of wage-earners inAustralia, so far as I know, whose wageshan-e remained stationary during the past fewsyears, are the miners employed on our gold-fields. The conditions with which they haveto pat np, particularly since the close of

thme 'var, are nothing short of cruelty. Mostpcople even in this State are not aware, andlwill findl it diffiult to believe, that in scamsinistamce,., the rate-s of u-ages now being paidon our gold fields are lower- than those oh-taining tin 1914 at the( Outbreak of the war.In very few vanses indeed tins there beenl anyinc vrease. The Arbitration Court is now sit-ing in Kalgoorlie to hear ialT appliratiolL forincreased wages made onl behalf of mien whotire working at :adepth of over half at mileof fully .1,000 feet, under conditions whichlhon. members Pan imagine. Andl for sutchwork the rate at piresent paid is Is. per dayless than that now paid for any class oflalamic-ing wor-k in and aroundi the mnetre.iolitatn area. It muslt be mom-ne in mind, too,tlinst the cost of living is necessarily higheronl the gold fields% than ill tine nietropolitanarea. Therefore T say that our miners havebornie ;a greater share of the war burdenthan any other sectiom of the Australasianturnmu ui.S P urther, ntotwithstantding theircomp~arativcly low wvages and the high costof livinig, no -lass of the community" haveshownm themselves more generous than theimillers in suibscribing to fuinds raised forwar puarposes. Tt is a very difficult problem,as the, Minister said, to know what to dowith incrs who are becoming affected withoccupational disease. A large proportion ofthle men iii the dep ilues, if they haveworked in the industry e ontinuously for 15or 20 years, ire practically settled at theage of 40 . It seemis to mie that the Stateon-cs a dulty to those men. The Staite shoulddevise some schemne whic~h will enable themlto nadopt somec other occupation. The Statesihoumldinake soine provisioni to that end. Thedecision (if the tribntnal appointed in NewSouth Wales a month or two ago deals withthat aspect of mining. It provides that arenwhno arc affectedl shall tie compelledI to leavethe minling idustry, and that an allowanceshall be nacdc to themn, amounting, where re-quliredl, to as. summehl as V1 per week. Of couirsethe 11mo1ey will have to lie foun3d, timid I he-lit-s- thle propiosal is that it shall be fouindPartly by, thle mminiig, cornpilnes and partlybn the NeW *Soultt Males G3overnmnent. TheB~roken Hill mining companlies are verywealthy conerns, and tlierefore are fortun-atelv inl a position to conitribulte to a fundfor miners suffering from occupationalI dis-ease, I don not know that at this stage thereaire inl Western Australia mny wealthy anin-lugv compmanies, although undoatbtedly' sonicof theim have in t-ho past distributed verylarge scums indeed by way of dividends totheir shareholders. However, there can benO qILtestiOn that sonsething will have to hedone, and that the State will have to recog-nise its responsibility to those mniners. Iamn very sorry that there has not been estab-lished for their benefit some scheme of landsettlement similar to that established forour returned soliers. It is a fact thatmamy of time settlers in our newer wheatdistricts originally camte fromt the golad-

1023

1024 ASSEMBLY.]

fields. One from Kalgoorlie or Boulder can-not travel through the eastern areas withoutmeeting scores of men who in their earlierexperience in 'Western Australia followedmining as an occupation. I see no reasonwhatever why the number of men on thegoldfields who still desire to get away frommining should not be afforded assistance bythe Government. Undoubtedly conditionson the goldfields are unsettled. The labouris ineflicient partly because the men 'sphysical condition does not enable themi torender the samne servic, as in former years.There is also a feeling of dissatisfaction, ofunrest, created by the knowledge withinthe man that hie is not being paid a wagesufficient to enable him to live in reasonablecomfort. I am not complaining of the factthat the mining companies are resisting thedemand for higher wages. The companies,too, are now finding themselves in a diff-cult position. The mines are old, and near-ing their end; and the companies are notto-day in as good a position to pay higherwages as they were in former years. Isuppose the mine managements at thepresent time are merely discharging theirobligations to their shareholders in fightingthle citation for increased wages. Un-fortunately, the position is a cruel one forthe miners and their wives and chidren.

Mr. Davies: An increase in wages is in-evitable, though.

Hon. P_ COLLIER: Certainly, and quiteregardless of the effect which it may haveupon the mining industry. The argumentwill not stand that we cannot provide aruling wage because to do so might resultin the extinction of an industry. f wewent to the other extreme, by keeping onreducing wages we would enable any in-dustry to continue in operation. If anindustry cannot pay a wage sufficient toenablethoso who are engaged in it to livedecently, hon1ourably and honestly, that in-dustry, or the portion of it concerned, mustcease to exist. There is nothing else forit to do.

Mr. Foley: The President of the Arbitra-tion Court said that if a mine was not pay-ing, the men engaged on it ought to workat a cheaper rate.

Mr. Munsie: Not the present president.Hon. P. COLLIER; Even, in much

despised Germany they made attempts todeal with those matters to which the Min-ister for 'Mines has referred, as far backas 20 years ago. They had a universalscheme of national insurance, providing forsickness, unemployment and other mattersaffecting the workers. This scheme coveredevery man, woman, and girl who had beencontributing to the fund. When thesepeople were in work they contributed asmall amount to the national insurancefund, the employers contributed a similaramount, and] 1 think the nation gave some-thing as well. Contribution w as made com-pulsory. When money was needed becauseof sickness, unemploymnent or somne other

cause, the workers were enabled to drawweekly payments from this source. Inrespect to our regard for the welfare ofthose who through) illness, unemployment,occupational diseases, or other cause overwhich they have no control, we in Australiaaire far behind many other countries in theworld. This is really a national affair, forin this country the workers move froni OneStaLte to the other. ft is a question whichthe Commonwealth Parliament might havetaken up years ago in establishingsome form, of national insurance. It is notless cruel for a man to see his wife andchildren suffer because of his unemploy-ment, than it is for him to see them sufferbecause of his illness. The great cloudwhich overhangs every wage earner, evenwhen he is in employment and getting awage sufficient to enable him and hisfamily to live in decency and comfort, is thefuture unemployment that may lie beforehim. The wage earner is not able to spendeven smiall, sums of money in certain direc-tions because of the insecurity of his em-ployment. Especially is this uncertaintyfelt by the man who has the responsib ili-ties of a family. The only way to overcomethis difficulty-and the Australian Parlia-ment might well have dealt with it yearsago-is to establish some form of nationslinsurance whereby there will be secured tothe worker, no matter what industry he maybe engaged in, sonic means by which he cankeep going and prevent those dependentupon him from suffering in the event of hisbeing overtaken by illness or unemploy-ment. It is not too late now for us to dosomething in this respect on the Easterngoldfields. In many ways the conditionsthere are worse to-day than ever before.This is not a party question. I believe thatproposals to meet that positima would be,supported by every section of the com-muinityv and 'every member of the House. 7hope the Minister will see whether it irpossible to dovise a suitable scheme to bedealt with by Parliament next year, s0 thatsomething may be done towards establishingan insurance fond, not only for men en-gaged in the mining industry, but in otherindustries as well. I wish to deal brieflywrith the new finds on the goldfields, I hopethe Minister will treat generously th~semen who are doing their best to open upthese new fields. I1 am not alleging anywant of sympathy for then] in the past. Itis certain that the new fields require nurs-ing. They need nil the sympathy, consider-ation, and assistance that any Minister orGovernment can give thei. In all newfields the pioneering stag-es offer great diffi-4culties. "When a field is well established.the people engaged upon it are generallyable to provide themselves with all theirrequirements, hut in the early stages of anew field lti" difficulties regarding watersupply and crushing facilities are great. Ibelieve that the new find outside Kalgoor-lie is fairly well placed in the muatter of

1024

[14 OCTOBER, 1920.] 1025

water supply. I hope the Minister will notbe afraid to provide crushing facilitieseven in the early stages of the field, andeven if the departmental officers reportthat possibly it is not sufficiently developedto justify the expenditure of public fundsin the erection of Government batteries.T~he amount involved would not be large.A sum of £5,000 or £6,000 would cover thecost of erecting a small plant. If it wasshown that a State battery was not justi-fiedl, assistance might then be rendered toany particular party who was willing toput up the necessary crashing facilities. AtSt. Ives the people stand greatly in needof crushing facilities. This field was dig-40v7red some time after the HamptonPlains. At Hampton Plains there is nowinvested a good deal of English capitalIand some of the properties have beenfloated for large suing of mloney and aregoing on with development work. Theseshows will be able to provide all the crush-ing facilities that al-c required withoutneed of outside assistance. Because theSt. Ives field was found subsequent toHampton Plains, the cream had been takenoff the milk so far as it was concerned. Theleases at St. Ives are chiefly owned by thelocal people of Kalgoorlie, Boulder, andother neighbouring centres. It is not afield that has been boomed, but I believe,had it been the first opened up, it wouldhave shown magnificent results. Owing tothese circumstanes, it has been difficult forpersons interested in St. Ives to obtainsufficient capital to develop the field, andit has devolved upon the local people, whoare in the position to do it, to invest theirowl, money for the purpose. Many of thelocal men of Kalgoorlie and Boulder, whoare not in a big way of business, have in-dividually put up several thousands otpounds in an endeavour to open up thefield. T do not know the nature of thereport of the officer who went to inspect thefield.

The Minister for Mines: I have not seenit yet.

Hor. P. COLLIER: I think it was thesuperintendent of State batteries who wentout to report on the advisability of erectinga Government mill there.

Hon. T. Walker: Quite recently.Hon. P. COLLIER: I hope the Minister

for %lines will take a generous view of theposition, even though the hield should turnout a fnilure. We all know that there arebound to be some failures in any new miningfield. Tt is better to have a few failures,however, than possibly allow some promisingshow to drop out of existence for the lackof assistance. I believe that if a mill wereprovided at St. Ives in the near futureI thepeople there would be able to recover suMf-dient gold from the properties to develop theleases without the assistance of any outsidecapital.

*Mr. Lutey: That is so.

Hon. P. CJOLLIER: I hope the Mlinisterwill look into that aspect of the question.During the last year or two our productionof copper has fallen off, in common withgold and other minerals. This is to be re-gretted. It is a pity that such a promisingfield as that at Raveasthorpe should havebeen closed down for some time. I do notblame any one in particular for this. A dis-trict which carried a thriving population of600 or 700 persons for several years is to-daylanguishing and has been almost abandoned.I do not know why this should be. There arealso difficulties in the way of opening up newcopper fields. Beyond Peak Hill there aredeposits of copper showing much higher per-centages; than anything else we have in theState, and immeasurably higher percentagesthan are found on properties that are pro-fitably worked in other parts of Australia.There ale big deposits of -copper beyondPeak Hill giving up to 15 and 20 per cent.ore. Owing to the cost of treatment andtransport, it is a difficult matter to openthem uip. A large amount of money wvouldbe required to establish the necessary treat-ment works there, for otherwise there is nowray of dealing with the ore. The cost oftransport by road over a distance of 70 or80 miles would be heavy, and on top of thisthere would be the freight over 600 or 700miles of railway. These difficulties make italmost impossible to work even such rich de-posits as these, It is a great loss to West-ern1 Australia that these rich mineral depositsshould hc lying idle at a time when thewhole world is crying out for that which wehave ii, abundance. Unfortunately, we arefor the mioment powerless to miake use of ourvast mineral resources. We are Continuallybeing brought face to face with the oldsituation. We are only a handful of peopletryi .ng to develop a vast territory. There arehut 330,?000 people trying to develop a ter-ritory in size equal to another, carryingscores of millions of people, in some otherpart of the world. Had we the populationand the money-for money would followpopulation, population in a sense beingmoney-we wvould be in a much better posi-tion to openl up these natural resources whichwe possess in various parts of the State. Wehave the Yampi iron deposits in the North-West. In my time these were taken up as acopper proposition. I remember providingthe first assistance in the way of transportby boat and-the necessary equipment forthose who went uip there. This was anamount sufficient to enable the party con-cerned to proceed to Yampi Sound. Therights were acquired by these people dur-ing the time I was in office owing to theassistance rendered by the Government ofthe day. We now learn that there are min-eral deposits there worth millions of pounds.This is also true of minerals in other partsof Western Australia. The Greenough dis-trict is rich in lead. The people interestedhave been trying to develop these fields un-der the same difficulties that have existed in

1026 [ASSEMBLY.]

Raveosthorpe and elsewhere. The problemnfacing these fields is that of treatmentworks. That is the hampering influence at.Northampton, Ravenathorpe and other din-trii-ts I could mention. This can onl.y beovercomne hy the expenditure of large sumsof money. These are times when money isclear and hard to get, and the Governmentare faced with dimeiulties9 in that respect. Ihope the 'Minister will give substantial as-sistance iii this direction wherever it isneeded, so long as bie is satisfied that theexpenditure is warranted. No one asks thatmoney should be thrown away on -rash ordoubtful propositions. If after duo investi-gation it is found that the expenditure iswarranted, I trust that the Mfinister will begenerous in the assistance that he renders inthe direction I have indicated.

Sitting suspended fl-cin 6.15 to 7.30 p.m.

Mr. WOLlEY (Leonora) [7.30]. Both theMinister for Mines and the leader of theOpposition remarked that there was nothingnew to be said about the mining indulstry.Bhy that one might be let] to believe thatthere is nothing new to lie done for an in-daiudry that has already dlone so muchi forthe State, in order to gfIVe it Dii ii 1 ttisagain. There are several ways i which Ithink an inipetus could lie given to it, andI desire to mention onte or two of these mnat-ters. Mining has 'b,'c bof great .idvnntageto the State. MNanyv millions wron fromn thegold have been taken away from the State,which while enriching the State also en-riched mien and eoncpauics outside WesternAustralia, Unfortunately the State has nottakeln full advantage of its power to levytoll uponl those people who have taken thlemoney niway froin the State. Each miemberof this Chamber is to blame. When we takeinto consideration the cost to the State ofour ining industry, we have to realise thatthere is, that bigger expenditure, which nomtone,'y ran compensate, niamely, the loss oflives inl our mnines. Recently I wenkt inltothe statistics regardingr accidents, serioulsandi trjiI, and deaths~ on the mines. Tak-ing the number of mienl employed in themines up1 to 1913 and comparing thle acci-dents. and decaths in the mines, T found thatour wines were responsible for a greater pro-portion, both of accidlents andI deaths, thanwvere all but three regiments of Australiansoldiers who went away' to the Front. Thesefigures are remarkable, but unfortunately Tcannot present them to menibes4, as the meni-her for Collie ("Mr. Wilson), to whom I lentthem, is not present. I think thnt we shouldmanke a great endeavour to cut down thisserious; loss of life. 'Many systems have heenspoken about and every Minister who hasbeen in chbarge of the Mines Department has,I believe, dlone his bes.t to assist mining. Ibelieve. however, that the one thing we Musttake into coasideraflon is not so much thequantity of air which is admitted to theImliip~q, hult its qulality. I ani convinced that

thle air in the m1imies must be made inudipurer than it is at time present tine. Everyauthority one van read, ani oae 's own ex-perient-e shows that it is the question of'quality, rather than quantity. If the officialsof the Mines D~epartment devoted their at-tention umore to the quality than the volumeof the air inl the inest-, it would he a greataci-levenient. We have heard references tothe, inefmient labour available. That in.eflictiency has lieen Apparent ever since 194and for thle reason one has only to rememberthat the 11th, 16th, and 28th battalions, andmost of the tunnellers' corps, were gold-fields people. These mne who could breakore at a less cost per ton than was possiblewith black labour in South Africa, were mlosteffic-ient workmken, and with their deopartureit was only natural that the efficency oflaboulr onl the mines would lie lowered. Someof those men who have come back -from thewar do not desii-e to go back to the mines,aind others have returned in a condition whichprecluides thenm from doing ao. We will haveto evolve somet schenie to secure a betterVlacs of worker inl the laines, so a.s to raisethme ptanlard of efficiency. We must alsotakv into ronsideration the question of howwe can utilise tjce labour of those men whohave, to leave thle u1ines,. On the Address-in-rely I spokeP in favour of vocationacl train-'ig and r feel certain that if that system

were adloptedl, we- would find the miners re-spond( to it well. Sonc 'of the bcit settlersini the agric-ultural areas have been mniners.Their traininig nnrdertvround, where theylearnt to be independent of the bosses,standsi theni in good stead. These inea, whohopil to exercisev intelligence in the ucines,exori-se that intelligence cqnally* well inl thenj'ricialtural idustry. These incal, who oftenhave to leave mining on account of theirhealth, arc iiot aide to attain to affluentcircumstances, and naturally, if they hadsome other tradle to which they could turn,it would he a great advantage to them. Forthjis ren~onk alone, T think members wouldflind that a systei of vocational trainingitonld be arailed of by tile men on the gold-fids. That is one of the first things thatthe Mines Departuient shouild consider andif given effect to, T think it would do in.-c-leulale good to the State. There is an-nthrr weir in which T believe healthy con-dlitions could be obtuined on the mines. WOtbear ait the present timic that the Govern-mient intend settling men on the land. Ihave already mentioned that some of ourmiost suce-esqful farmners are men who havecomne from thle goldflelds. These mn, inseine cases, have been forced to leave theiroreu-1pations in the mines. I am one who onlyleft in time. T think we could bring abouta great measuare of relief to these ina ifa sy-stem were adopted whereby, after a medi-cal exaumination, they could he told thatthey niust not continue workiar-ia the mines.Some suc(h systema would give these men an

opportunity to avail themsielves of assistancefrom the Government to go on the land. The

1026

[14 OCTOBER, 1920.] 1

q.;alilicatioii could fie their work in minesand a Medical certifieate, thme production of-which should entitle them) to assistance frontthre Government. If we could take say 100area front thle miining districts end pitt tliemtoit clearing agricultural land anti erecting-cottages for thle settlers, it would he a very'gleat impllrovemtent onl the existing system.The settlers could h~e chiarged niere for theirland hut, on thle other hand, their land wouldlie all ready for a crop, and they would havea good chance of taking something off theirholdings in the first year. A much discussedquestion is; that of the working conditionslin a mtine. AMany mniners favour the daylabour systemn. Although I beliet-e that sucha systemi is a good one, yet I ant convincedthat a majority of thle remi are in favour ofcottracts, conditionally onl the contractsbeing let wider equitale conditions.

Mr. Lamibert: But tlte contract system onthe goldfields ltas killed hundreds of men.

Mr. FOLEY: -L appreciate that bettertitan does thle hon. inember. I agree thatthe oatract system hasr killed numbers otloen; but on. thme other hand numbers ofothers have been killedl under other systems.Given good air and] iimprovecmeonditions theminers, evemi when working onl contracts,tvould etijoy a much longer life than theydo to-day. If1 the contract system is to ob-trimo tire Goverment ought to call togetherrepresentatives of the inent owners and ofthe iners and draw up equitable condiftionsof contract. When first I came into theI hniber the mullockers in the (iwalia minewere being paid Ilit 2d. a shift. To-day theyare making much more thtan that on contract.-Mllmers generally are not getting anythinglike sufficient wages under the ArbitrationCourt award. Mining, now that it is in itsdecline inl this -State, requires much mere at-tentiont than it did when it was flourishing.It is the chemist n-ho will assist mining inthe future. We see by the Estiniates thatthere is n increase in the vote fur theOeological Survey ])epartment. To-night weheard the 'Minister say that the GeologicalSurvey Department had almiost reached van-ishiag point. That being so, I say that those,fighting a reargUard action for the geologi-cal survey are receiving better treatmentthtan they did when mining was at its ienith.If the Ministcr is desirous that miningshould get the fullest possil results fromthe labours of thle cheists, hie shouldl see topit that the departmeital relports are miorepromptly niade available. Nine months agon. geological survey was made of the countrynorth of Leonora, It was dlearly erislentthat the area contained some of the verybest contact country. The rer'ort of thatsurvey is not yet available. The Gwalis.Mining Company were prepared to spend£3,000 pier anitli On prospectieg that COUmi-try. WVhen a compiany thus show their bonafides they should be encouraged. The com-pany~ wrote dlown asking for certaini sectionsof ihlat report to enable them to get theirmen out. Thme Minister readily granted their

request. S8till, I contend that the report inits entirety should have been made availablelong ago. Only to-night the Minister saidthat one report-possibly the one to which Ian referring-had been in the hands of thetiovenunent Printer for nine months. It theGovermuient Printing Office cannot get outthese reports in less than nine mionths, theninl thle interests of the industry the workShonuld he handed over to a private fim.

Mr. Underwood: It is not thle Goverinment.Printer who is at fault, but the official; thispn~raphrnsig has to be done.

Mr. FOLEY: The hon. member is makinga fetish of this paraphrasing. It cannot liegainsaid that there is a big chance of a inbstantial revival in mnining. Yet that revivalwill probably be seriously injured bjy theexorbitant pr~ier of all mninilig coniiitlditics.The Prices Regulaution Commission should.consider the cost of mining reqnisites.

The Minister for Mines: It ought to hemore important titau beer.

Mir. FOLEY: It ought indeed. Only a fewevenings ago I read out a complete table con-trasting the current prices with the pre-warprices of all mining commodities. That in-formation is already in ''Hansard,'' andtheretore there is 110 occasion to repeat it.I will content myself by remarking that inthe case of one coinnodlity, whereas the pre-war price was £E55, the price to-dlay is 2130.lin these cireninstant es it is very difficult in-tired to profitalbly work a mining shlow. Ifa ineniber represents mining, bie should[ re-present thle industry as a whole, and notmake out a ease for one mine while neglect-ing the remnitider. If we were to proceed onthose lines there would be no industryv ati l in the course of a few years. Here isanother miniug commodity which, costng

2s. Id. before the war, now costs £27. Thisshows elearlyI that the indnistry is at themiercy of somic influence beyond the Comn-nionwealtlr. if the Prices Regulation Coma-mision v-an trace a line of groceries front theconsuml~er back through the retail shop to themnerchant s warehousge and thence to the fae-tory, surely the sane Commission can tracea mining requisite with a view to checkingthe prie. Given mining requisites at a rea-sonable cost, and given efficient labour sucha,; we haqd before the war, the industry wvouldnot be suiffering from inordinately highcosts'. In veyen any instances, the men inour iis are. not so) efficient as they werebe1fore li1e tear.'

'Mr. Teesdale: They are not all wrecks, arethey

Mry. FOLJEY : A lar1We Proportion of thetmare. Evrvn thoset who escaped wvounds and dis-ease are considerably older than they wereat the outbreak of the war. It must beremembered that physically none of the men%terking in the mtines to-day will be Woorthmuch in ten years' time. Of course someof the mrines arc not so prejudicial to healthas are others. One mine, while nobbating so great a volume of air asanothepr, yet has at better quality- of

1027

1028 I ASSEMBLY.]

air, which gives a man an improved chance.Ii am pleased that the Minister has at lastseen his way clear to take action regardingthe liens on leases. This has been a sourceof annoyance to various Mfinisters. Whenthe present leader of the Opposition AvasMinister for Mines I saw him with regaito one lease over which there wvas a lien, andhe was powerless to do anything. I amn gladthut the present 'Minister is altofring the ex-isting conditions in order to wake it possiblefor some of these leases to be worked, in-stead of being held up as they have been formany years. Seven years ago the leader ofthe Opposition, who was then 'Minister forMines, was asked to throw open a lease inthe Mt. Ida district. Two thousand poundshad been advanced on that lease, and thepeople had given it a very fair run, but un-fortunately they bad come out on the wrongside of the ledger. This occurred 17 yearsago. Because those people had not beeni ableto repay the £2,000, this lease remained idleuntil the motith. before last, simply on ac -count of a fool regulation by the Mfines De-partuient that the money must be repaid byany party wishing to take up the lease,' adebt in the incurring of which theiy had hadno hand. Now that the Ilinister for Mineshas decided to remove the embargo relatingto liens ont leases, he should deal with eachease individually. A party of men mightwork a mine for a tine and then throw it up,after having obtained considerable assist-mnce fronm the Government. Another partymnight then take over the mine, hut thisparty might incinde the men who had thelease originally, and in this way they mightmake at good thiig out of it. If the Governmrent come to thu, assistance of any man,party, or company, they should he carefCutnot to leave themselves open to being fleeedin this way. The Mlinister should recognisethat the monetary assistance given for cart-age is not what it should be, When a ieamworking a show gets out a crushing, he inoften doubtful whether it will pay. If hecould get the crushing carted to the batteryand tested, it would give him a better chance.Ufnder existing conditions an application forsuch assistance has to go before the Superinl-tendent of State Batteries. Any concession,snbsidy or assistance given to an individualon bis application to the Mlinister should hegranted nut of the Mines Development vote.Tr is of the greatest importance to assist the

mcen working shows to ascertain whetherthere is any value in tbe ore they are break-ing. T hope the 'Minister will consider thispoint. I trust that the mining industry willprosper. There is another point to which Ireferred the other nighit and which I wish tostress once more. We hare a GovernmentAnalyst who is Chief Ifnspector of Explo-sires, drawing a salary of over E000, and achemist who receives £48,0. 'When we hav etwo such officials in the one department paidby the Government and working for the sames1 eonle, there should not be such a d1erideddlifference of opinion between them as thereis. a difference of opinion which must havethe effect of retarding the mining industry.

I refer to the question of the treatment ofalunite for manure. Dr. Simpson, who re-putedly ranks among the five most highlyqualified chemists in the world, has gained inthis State practical experience that warrantsus as regarding hint as the best possiblejudge of this matter, When the alunite orewas broken, Dr. Simpson said the productwas an excellent fertiliser. A private firmthen started to miake this fertiliser, and wassuccessful. Trial lots were sent out, and incourse of time orders were received from thefarmners. In fact, the farmers were so satis-fied that repeat orders were given. Whenthe first orders were sent out, the firm reliedon the opinion of Dr. Simpson that alunitewas an excellent fertiliser. Then the G-ov-crnment Analyst, Mfr, Mannt, intervened andput an end to the industry, asserting thatthis was not a registered fertiliser and there-fore vould not be placed on the market.

The Llinister for 'Mines: Not quite in thatWay,

MNr. FOLEY: That is the way it was putto the men who were producing this fertil-iser. The bend chemist said this fertiliserwas of a certain value, and after the farmershad proved its value to their own satisfac-tion, they were not permitted to make addi-tional purchases because Mr. Mann said thatDr. Simpson's word could not be accepted.

The MNinister for -Mines: Oh, no.Mr. FOLEY: Ile said that Dr. Sinipron '

word could not be taken in this instance, be-cause that gentleman was not an agricul-tural chemist.

The Minister for 'Mines: The point wasthat a fertiliser must have certain -obbhlecontents and 'Mr. 'Man]] said that this fer-tiliser did not contain them.

Nr. FOLEY: And Dr. Simpson said thatit did. Irrespective of technical considera-tions, of which I profess to know nothingr,this industry was and still is prevent(ed fromoperating anid employing labour. It Wasoperating in the Kanowna, district. Themore industries we can start and the greateruse we can make of our natural resources,the better it will be for the State. The Min-ister should inquire into the duplication ofthese positions. There was a difference ofopinion regarding one matter of chemistrya few years ago, and on that occasion Mr.Mann put his opinion practically against theworld.

Mr. Lambert: He onlyv does that becausetheore is not another world.

M.%r. FOLEY: As a boy I was taught thatthere was another world.

Mr. Lambert: -Not one to which 'Mann willever go.

Mr. FOLEY: The same -.'r. 'Mann puthis opinion azainst the world in regard tospirits. Again, I am not an authority onspirits, but I contend that M,\r. Mfann did notcome out on top on that occasion. There isevidence that the quality of the fracteur,which until recently was being used in themines, was not what it should hare been.Much of the ill-healh suffered by minersis caused by the use -)f bad fracteur, and

I1 028

[14 OCTOBER, 1920.1 1029

there was a degree of uncertainty among theminers as to whether the btest tinss of fine-ter- was being used. Again that samte gentle-man put is opinion against that of thehighest authorities, but the fracteur now be-ing used in the mines is not of the standardrecommended by '.%r. Mafnn. The fracteurbeing used is of a quality recommended bythe best chemists of the world. I do notmention these things out of a (lesire to in-dulge in personalities or with any thought ofvictimisation consequent upon the recent hap-penings, but if any employee of the Govern-ment is not delivering the goods 1, as one ofthe trustees for the people, intend to exer-cise my right to criticise him. I do not Baythat Mr. Mann is not doing his duty, but theGovernment are paying salaries to two chem-ists and are not getting the best results fromthem.

Mr. Lamnbert: Mann is the inspector underthe Explosives Act and under the FertilisersAct.

Mr. FOLEY: Hie is inspector of Explo-sives, Inspector of Fertilisers, GovernmnentAnalyst, and everything else. I would beopposed to the appointment of a select comn-mittee to inquire into this matter. I havenever yet voted for the appointment of aselect committee, and I never shall unless Ialter my views a good (leal. There shouldbe a departmental inquiry, preferably con-ducted by the Minister, into this dluplication.If these two chemists cannot agree--

Mr. Lambert: Give them a holiday untilthey can.

Mr. FOLEY: If I mm working with aman and I disagree with him it is necessarythat one of us should leave.

Mr. Lambert: And the other fellow wouldleave.

Mr. FOLEY: If I were employing menand knew that I was not getting the bestresults consequent on disagreement betweentwo of them, and if I were not capable ofjudging which of the two wis in the right,I wouild be unfit to have men in my charge.If the duplication is allowed to eon-tines, it must prove extremely detrimentalto the best interests of the State.

Mr. LAMIBERT (Coolgnr-die) [8.15]: TheHouse should have some explanation frontthe Minister regarding the appointment ofthe present assistant State MAining En-gineer. I know that the appointment is notone for which the present Minister wasresponsible, but in some mysterious mannerMr. Blatehford has been taken from theGeological Department and appointed to theposition of assistant State 'Mining Engineer.I understand that Mr. fllatchford is ageologist, and that he had been working onthe field staff of the Geological Departmentfor a considerable time. What particularqualifications the Minister may suggest theofficer has to fill this new position, hon.members are at a loss to know. A gooddeal of criticism has been levelled at theState Mining Engineer, Mr. Montgomery,

butl it is unnecessary for me to (mlateupon it. If an assistant State MiningEngineer is required he should be ainan who t ' possessed of the varying

qualifications required to fit him for theposition. I dto not suggest that ay bon.iember is qualified to demonstrate the

different branches of science and industryin whichI such an officer should be versed,to fit him for the position which he willpresumably he called upon to fill at somelater date, but I do hope. the Minister willgive the Hlouse some information on thequestion. The member for Leonora (Mr.Paley) made some reference to the Govern-met Analyst, Mr. Mann. We should haveset before us a clear idea of the duties ofthe various posts which Mir. Mann is calledupon to fill. The hion. member said that hepossessed a thousand times more knowledgeon this subject than I did. He then pro-ceeded to refer to the necessity for chemistsin Western Australia. I fancy that if welad a chemist in this State possessing all theknowledge amid ability to separate conceitfrom knowledge, the hen, member would getan awful shock, if anything at all couldshock him.

The Minister for Works: How do youexpress that in a formula?

Mr. LAMBERT: I do not know of anyformula that would enmbrace the bon. mein-her's qualifications. The Minister mustknow full well that the time has arrivedwhen Mr. Mann's duties should be clearlydefined. We should have a common senseassessmnent of his ability to fill therespective positions hie now occupies. I be-lieve he is a good analyst, and upon thatscore I have no desire to speak. He bascertainly boxed the compass in the range ofhis investigations, and he has dabbled in allForts of tihings, from alunite to -pot-stillwhisky. Although the member for Leonorahas only a crude knowledge of the subject,hie did strike a half trut,, as he invariablydoes.

Hon. P. Collier: He struck it accidentally.Mr. LAMBERT: Hie stumbled over it,

however, both in his manner of speechand in the matter of knowledge, just aslie stumbles over most things. There hasbeen a conflict of opinion between Mr.Mfann, and the different chemists who haveventured to range their knowledge along-side his. f can instance the experimentscarried out by the Mines Department inconnection with alunite. After a consider-able amount of experimental work, Dr. Simp-son recommended the use of raw altinitedirect to the soil with a certain addition ofcanlciumi carbonate as being soluble, or at allevents sufficiently soluble, to justify its useas a fertiliser. I think these experiments costbetween £1,000 and £1,500. By the expen-diture of a two-penny stamp, I received fromthe Bureau of Mines in Utah, in the UnitedStates, considerably more information thanhas been obtained from the experiments. Ido not blame the Minister for what occurred.

[ASSEMBLY.)

The M1inister for Mines: Was it not anO.S. stanip

Mr. LA-MBERT: Y'es, and it was moneywell spent. At the very moment nwlen theMines 1Departinent were experimenting in thecalcinatin of alunitt on. the eastern gol-fields, to test the solubilit ' of potasiumi saltsfor ulse by thle farmers, at Utahl thle Bureaulof Science and Mines; was engaged in makingsimilar expierinments.

The M1inister ror %fines: That sliuws thatwe were up to date.

M)r. LAM.\BERT: Not at all. I have notyet heurd tile resultF of the local expleri-mnents. I casually mentioned this to the tire--se'nt M.\inister when the idea of cailcininig

ali'ute n th EaternL goirifields Jns firstIrooted. The MNiiiister was right in havingthese exp~erimnents coniductedl if hie thought hecould not get the necessary data from somleother part of thev world. lBut his respoonsibleofficers should have known that linvortanit ox-perimniity, based upon the need for hhtnssiilisalts for thle soil were being eonlicted 'Atthat tuime, a011lV the expemiditure of two-lence could have obtained a considerableaniount of data of great value.

Thec Mfinister for Mfines: Why didi you notnqlvise' i1 ?

Mfr. L AMIPFRT: I did say I thought itwnQ a foolish aclt on the Mfinister's poart tosanction the expenditure of any suim ofmoney in 1'alcining olunite on the Easterngoldfields. I ain not finding fault, for prob-ably he thouglit it would be right to give theexperiment a trial, lbnt if the course I havesuggested had been followed, a sumn of £1, '000or £1,500 could have been saved to the State.If these experiments were not being eon-ducted elsewhere, the departmental officerswould have- been justified in recommendingthat they should be conducted here. This isone of the conflicting functiont of MNr. Mannill which he differs from Dr. Simipson. Dr.,Simpson has before hini the data in con-nection with that experimental work, and heanid his assistants have been making theirown experiments regarding the solubility ofpotassium salts in alunite. After being ap-plied to the soil, hie has arrived at the eon-clusion that alunite ill its raw state, with theaddition of a little calciuas carbonate is then*readily accessible as a plant food. The ser-iousness of the position is that, after con-ducting these experiments for a period ofseveral months at a cost of a considerable

Ruin of money, M.%r. 'Manin, in his capacity asthe inspector of fertilisers, has disagreed withIDr. Simpson as to the solubility of thepotaksh colltents of alunite, and u-ill notsanction this fertiliser to be registered. fleis quite within his province in taking up thatattitude tinder the Fertiliser Act. I blamethe Minister for Agriculture for this posi-tion, hecanse sonic 12 months or two yearsago there was drafted an amendment to theFertiliser Act which to a certain extentmight have remedied the difficulty. That isnot the oinly trouble affecting the mining in-dustry of Western Australia. Alunite is notthe only valnable constituent in this State

COlltailuing piotassiumn salts, whichi are so es-sential for the soil. We have also greatbodies of felsplar and felspathic materialcontaiiuluig a large quantity of potassiumsalts, which would be most valuable as aplant foodl and fertiliser if they were onlygrond and applied almnost as they naturallyocur. If nil industry of that kind werestarted, it would immnediately be fond thatMr. Mnn poss9essed the full right under thePertilixer Act to prevent its use in WesternAustralia, notwithstandinlg tbe fact that ourhauls are starving for the want of that neces-sary 4-ol111l1odity. In onr State departmentswe have the geological laboratory, and thatattachieui to the office of Government Analystand InspeN-tor of Explosives, and we haveanother in the Railway Dlepartmnent unader thei-ilIVRay chellliSt, all under separate jurisdic-tion. We should have some co-ordinationand 4-o-o~btration between these dlifferent de-partnuents. They should all he under onedelinrtinent and one head official.

The11 Minister for 'Mines: It is largely a4ques.tionl of housing.

'.%r. LAMBE-RRT: To a large extent, thatis so. I thint that if the Minister were tospeak to the Minister for Works on the sub-jvet lie would not fail to find some suitableae-onunuodation for the housing of the Gov-emuient laboratories.

The Minister for Mfines: T will put theproposition to him.

M.%r. LAM[BERT: The Mfinister for Minesc-ould give him carte blanche, and I am surehie would find a pla3ce that was suitable.It wvoud nt he the first time that the Min-ister for Works had shown luis versatility.Ile lid so before in connection with the civilservice strike, when he, acted as his, ownpaynuster. If all the civil servants hadc-eased work T think he would have taken onthe lathes at the State Implement Works.

Sau-ely- lie has sufficient versatility to find asuitable building in Western Australia forall our chemists. I hope a note will bemade of this matter. Some little timea go, partly through departmental jeal-ou isyv, there was a good deal of under-ground engineering with regurd to the con-trol of thev sub-departments of Mines,We had on the one hland certain officers ofthle M.%ines Dellartment proper fighting forthe control of the entire department~ aFndon the other hand we had the GeologicalDepartment demanding full control. Nofinality has ever been reached. rors nline tilie last a gnod dleal of criticism has;been levelled at the administration ofthe Mfines Department. Mlost of the officersof that department, I believe, are do-ing their best: hut until the entiredepartmecnt is placed under one head, theposition cannot he satisfactory. If theState Mining Engineer is performing thefunctions he should be performing as StateMining Enigineer, then he should have fulland direct control of all the branches ofoar Mines Department. It is nonsensicalfor the (lenlogical Department to contendfor control. I hope the Mfinister will make

[14 OcToRFn, 1920.] 10131

an endeavour to place all the ramnification~sof the department under- one bead. If theState Mtining Engineer is not capable of tak-ing control, this House and the country shouldhe told of it.

The Minister for M1ines: Ile is an excel-lent geologist.

Mr. LAMHEIVI': I an, not referring torJL Amotgoine-y 's qutalific-ations in :ft

particular branch of mi ninPg. Some time'ago a section of the Mines Department re-commiendled the estabilitnwtt of anl ex-

perituetital plant in Kalgoorlie. Apparent]lya smiall expJeri men talI plIant "-as iu iti p at theSchool of Alines iii Kulgoorlie-, and this wasa ver-v onnenttdle mnov-e. It is to he hop~edthat the students at the sclsool will find theplant advatageouis iii their pursuit of thatknowlIed ue wIh i is si, essential in, thircalling.

The in ister for Mtines: rt shotld ha',,beet, established at Coolgardie.

Mr. LA-MIERT: There are undoubtel>manny deposits of ore in this State whichtcould be concenutrateti at the treatmentplant ert-eted in (Colga id i. fit contnec-tionwitht that plant, let me say that the ChiefInspector of Batteries wasq sent all overA ustralia in order that lie might gainstufficien t knowledge to enable him to putup a concentrating plant. He could have-written to the Eastern States atid found outfrom the various 1fines Departments there,at the cost of a twopenny stamp, all thatbe wanted to ktnow. T cotntend that as9Chief Inispector of Batteries he should havebeen, in possession of sufficiemt data and in-formation to design a plant suitable forthe concentration of seheelite. However,the plant was designed and erected, and ittreated two or three small parcels of sehene-lite ore. One parcel in particular wastreated experinientally, and the extractionof seheelite was not very good; and I doDot know that the iwner of the parcelgained very much from having it treatedexperitmentally by the Government. Theplant cost £5,000 or £6,000; ajid I wish topoint out that while there is perhaps aol.much scheeslite in the district, a consider-able quantity of molybdenite is to he foundin this State, and that with some little alters-dion this plant could he uttilised for experi-mental purposes.

Mr. Underwool: For experimenting onwhat?

Mr. L~k.%ErRT: The recovery of inolyb-denite.

Mr. Underwood: There is no niolybdenitethere. Ys aese ilb

Mr. LAMBERT:Ye.Thvsenmlbdenite which wotiuld prohably carry 15 or 20

Rtrceont. However, of that matter I knowltle except from hearsay. The plant

has all the power crushing and mill-ing . caipacity necessary for experimentalpurposes. For example, practical experi-ments in conneetion with oil flotation couldeasily' be made at that plant. T believe the4big mnines would contribute something to-

wyards the cost of experiments with the oilflotation process. If the plaiit is evergoing to be of any use to Western Australia,and if it is not required for selteelite, theresponsible officer shoulId find out whetherthtere- is any other ore deposit suitable fortreatmnat at the plant. We have tilt-ichcornid rin ores of the K imbcrlcvs, whichhave never yet been tackled; atn, that

inmet-al is worth V11) or £70 per tonl.after dressing. Again, there is themnoW bden i e. Th le pln t is in agoodcentral position, and in saying that

* ait not at all adopting a par-ochialview. f would never put forward theclaims of Coolgardie onl a parochial basis.The lalnt is situated in a central position,and readily accessible from the railwaysystem of the State. Now let me revertto the experimental plant at the School of!tines in Kalgoorlie. Some few weeks ago1 "-as told there that the school required,among other things, a 5111511 hattery. Attile vry timie tile Kalgoorlie si-heelwas requiring this battery, the Diirectorof the Perth Techinical School, or someother person responsible, was elalnaur.in-, to throw one out. If was; in fact,thrown out, and sent to the State Tiniple-inent Works to be smashed till for %crap. Isnot that so?

The Minister for Workcs. I believe that iscorrect.

'.%r. LAMBERhT: Yes, and the batterymust have cost £600 or £700.

M1r. Underwood: A three-stamp batterywould he better scrapped.

Mr. LA210EET: Possibly some people,would be ungracious enough to thtink< thathat remark wvould apply to the hot,. mnmcmbet interjecting. I hope the Minister for-2Thnes w~ill have inquiries niade and ascer-tain who is responsible for the bungling inconntection with this battery. If what theKalgoorlie school required was a batterycapable of cralshing a little stone, and de-nmonstratitng in a practical way what can bedlone as regards experimenting with oresof a complex nature, the battery scrappedby' the Perth Technical School "-as highlysuitable for that purpose. Actually, whileone si-hool was sendilng oilt a requisition forthe battery, another school was clamouringto have its; battery smashed up for scrap.I bring this matter to thc 'Minister's noticein the friendliest way, atid not in a spirit ofcriticism. T take it the duty of a memberof Parliament who knows 6f happenings ofthis description is to bring thenm hefore theM\injister, so that he can lhri, to hook theofficers, responsible. Tt is a great pitythat the department is not of 'clh a n-itilreas to admit of absolute conitrol bv the "Min-ister. T would like to see the M,\ilis Dennart-mnt coiniet a mining hank in the sameway as the Agricultural Ban~k. The MinesDepartment should have a fund fromwhich they" could draw to pmerchave miininmachinery of a suitable nature, which couldbe repaired in a depot and then sent Alit for

1632 ASSEMBLY.]

departmental use or for the use of pros-pectors.

IMr. Smith: de Bernales is doing that.'Mr. LAMERT: 'Mr. de lBernalcs dis-

likes ate, I know; and] I like his dislike. Prob-ably he ill thank nie for offering this sug-gestion, which, if adopted, would result in thesaving of a considerable suni of money to thedepartment and the prospectors. As re-gards the prospector whto applies forassistance, he should be finadfeed inmuch the same way as a settler onthe land. Under present conditions theprospector who mnakes a find must im-mnediately root out all the ore possible andsend it to the nearest battery so that hemay meet his financial obligations. TheMAinister knows as well as anyone thatsuch a proceeding is unsound and un-scientific. I contend that the Minister shouldhave at his disposal a sum of money fromwhich advances could be made to prospec-tors oil sane, sound, commercial lines, to en-able themn to develop their mines until thestage is reached when the property is readyfor an equipment of its own. That systemwould be infinitely preferable to the presentslipshod fashion of financing prospectors.The Minister however, cannot adopt it untila fund is established.

The Minister for Mines: We are doing it.Mr. LAMBERT- But not in 'the manner

I suggest it should he done. If a prospectorapproached the Minister to-morrow nastated that he had discovered a payable reefor lode and wanted to go down a couple ofhundred feet on it, the Government wouldnot have the money to advance to enablehim. to do that.

The Minister for Mines. We have.Mr. LK'MBEBT: Give rae one instance.The Minister for Mines: Phillips River.Mr. LAMBERT: The Minister is refer-

ring to the smelting works.The Minister for Mines: And some of the

gold mines as roll.Mr. LAMBERT: Well I do not know of

any.The Minister for Mfines: We are doing it

every day,Mr. LAMBERT: The Minister may

be advancing money, but he is notdoing it in a sufficiently big way to enablethe policy to have a lasting benefit on the in-dustry. The Minister should have at leasta quarter of a million at his command andthe nmomnent a roan had developed his pro-perty, snfficiently to justify the Governmentsending a responsible officer to report on theproperty, the advance should be made if thereport was favourable. It is only in thisway that weI can secure a continuity ofoperationis so far as the mining industry isconcerned.

The 'Minister for 'Mines: You ought to bemusde 'Minister for M1ines in the next admin-istration.

Mr. LAM.%BERT: I rio not know that thatwill bother nbe very much.

The Minister for Mines: You would wanta sound policy; not one like that "hich youare advocating. At any rate I would not liketo be the Treasurer.

Mr. LAMBERT: If there is to he a nowadministration next year that administrationshould rio everything possible to assist in thefostering of every enterprise.

The 'Minister for Mines: Are you mak~inga policy speech on behalf of your leader?

Hon. P. Collier: We will do all thingsnecessary.

Mr, LAMNBERT- Yes, and leave it at that.Bon. P. Collier: There is no need to

speify.Mr. LAMBERT: We will put forward an

attractive policyj one that wilt absolutelyastound the M1inister.

The CHAIRM1AN: I would remind thehon. member we are discussing the MinesEstimates.

Mr. LAMBERT: No one appreciates theresources of the State better than hon. mem-bers on this side of the House, and if -weembark on any big developmental scheme itwill be done on sound lines, and on lines thatwill command the support of right thinking-people.

Mr. Smith:, Why did -you not do it whenyou had the opportunity?

Mr. LAMIBERT: We are Scotch youknow, and there is no harm in thinking thematter over. We have in Western Australia,ports on our Western coast that lend them-selves by their situation to the exploitationof our varying mineral resources. We haveGeraldton which claims that we should erectlead smelting works ia its vicinity.

Mr. Hudson: Is that part of youlr policy,too?

'Mr. LAMBERT: The leader of the Op- -position will refer to matters of policy.

The Minister for 'Mines: Vou then areonly the spining Jenny, a sort of side show.

Mr. LA'MBERT. A good claim can beadvanced for the erection of smelters at Ger-aldton provided the matter of fuel cant hesatisfactorily got over, and if so, there is noreason why the resources of that districtshould not then be smelted on the spot.

The Minister for 'Mines: Why did you notestablish your chemical works uip there?

Mr. LAM.NBERT: They would not be suffi-ciently near to the resources we are exploit-ing. Possibly within 12 months our comn-pany will be utilising the port of Oeraldtonto the extent of 50,000 tens a year.

The M.Xinister for -Mines: Only exportingn-stcrisl; what about treating it there?

Mr. LAMBERT: If the Minister will showsufficient interest in the treatment of thatore, we may be ready to discuss the matterwith him,

The Minister for Mines: You are prettywrarm: you want us to do the job for you.

M.%r LAMBERT: I do not, further -thanis absolutely essential. But I can assure theMinister that I will not trouble him to agreat extent. A claim can be made for thesmelting of lead at Geraldtnn. I know that

1632

[14 OCTOBER, 1920.]03

the Minister has at the back of his head thequestion of establishing big metallurgicalworks, and every member who is conversantwith the mineral resources close to the coastof Western Australia, will agree that thetime has arrived when we can no longerafford to continue to give tiddley-winkingenwouragenient to the mining industry. -Acomprehensive policy should be carried outin connection with the utilisation of the rawproducts of the State, and what shouldweigh with the departmental heads is theresurces and the position of the respectivepaorts such as Danbury, Fremantle, and (icr-aldton.

The Minister for Mines: What is wrongwith Albany?

Mr. LAMBERT: I understand there areores in that district that could be turned tocommercial use. I would like to say a fewwords about the iron deposits wvhiclf exist atYampi Sound. Not only have we those valu-able deposits there, but similar deposits existin places like Mt. Victoria outside of South-ern Cross, where there are millions of tonsof iron ore suitable for smelting. ifthe present Government are going to remainin control, a comprehensive policy should beadvanced for the establishment of. iron andsteel works in Western Australia, for afterall, such works are the key of our futureprosperity. The Government should make aserious attempt to establish big secondaryindustries in the State. At the present timethe majority of those who constitute the Alit-chell Government look- upon the establish-noent of secondary industries in an unfavour-able light.

The Minister for Works: Not a bit of it.Mr. LAMB3ERT: Did not the Government

announce from the house-tops that at thefirst, opportunity they would sell the tradingconcerns?

The Minister for Mines: The trading con-cerns arc not all secondary industries. Atany rate it is unkind of you to make sucha statement when the Government assistedyou to establish a secondary industry.

Mr. LAMBERT: I mean that secondaryindustries should be directly or indirectly es-tablished by the Go~vernmnent.

The Minister for Works: Selling the trad-ing concerns does not mean closing themdown.

Mr. LAMBERT: Some of the tradingconcerns are secondary industries. Take thehrickworks and the timber mills as an ex-onple.

The Minister for Mines: What aboutthemt

Mr. LAMBhERT: The announced policy ofthe Government was that they would sellthose works at the first opportunity.

The Minister for Works: They could notbe taken out of Western Australia.

Mr. LAMBERT: 1I do not care whethersecondary industries are established directly,or by way of subsidy, I prefer that they-should be State enterprises. But I do saythat a serious attempt should be made to es-tablish steel and iron works in the State.

We have at Collie an almost unlimited sup-ply of coal.

The Msinistgr for Mines: What are yougoing to do with itl

Mr. LAMBERT: It is certainly not 01 akind that is suitable for coke, but it wouldbe suitable for the generation of electricity ona large scale at the pit's mouth, and currentcould be sent to Sunbury for its proper til-isation. There are 20 different industriesthat (-oulillie immediately established if wehatd a big scheme of power generation at thepit's mouth, and if wve could send current tothe nearest port.

The Minister for 'Mines: It could not begenerated any cheaper than we are doingnow at East Perth.

Mr. LAMIBERT: There are large quan-tities of waste coal and slacks that are notutilised at the present time. The memberfor Collie (Mir. Wilson) has infornmed methat the quantity runs into between 50,000aid 60,000 tons per annumn. This should beturned into electric energy to enable us tostart secondary industries.

The Minister for Mlines: We are produe-ing current cheaper than any State in Aus-tralia. Why is that not used?

Mr. LAMBERT: Why does not the Mlin-ister encourage people to use iti Let us seewhat somte of the essential industries arethat should be established in Western Aus-tralia. Take the fixation of nitrogen. Whenwar broke out Germany found that she hada paltry few thousand tons of Chilian nitratewith which to make explosives. What didshe dot Did she fly the white fiagW Shestarted off to develop her own fixation ofnitrogen industry which is so essential inAustralia to-day. One of the greatest pos-sible blots on the Federal administration to-dlay is the fact that they hnve not tackledthis all-important question. We talk aboutmilitary training and the defence of ourcountry, but if we have not the ex-plosives at the critical moment we are abso-lutely helpless. What have the Federal GOV-erment done? Have they shown the slight-est disposition to profit by the experience ofthe war! Let me rend an extract from anarticle published in the ''Chemical andM.etallurgical Engineering''-

One of the most far-reaching achieve-inents of the German War Ministry wasthe development of the nitrogen industry.While Germany before the war was obligedto import something like 100,000 tons ofnitrogen a year in order to meet the re-quiremnents of her agriculture and indiis-tries amounting to 220,000 tons per year,she is now able to meet her greatly in-creased demands solely from domesticmanufacture. Before the war there wasproduced in Germany each year in cokeovens, gas plants, and other by-product in-stallations, a total of 120,000 tons ofnitrogen. The nitrogen plants built dur-ing the war for the production of limenitrogen and ammonia when completed willbe in a position to produce about 380,000tons of nitrogen per year, so that the total

1033

1034 [ASSEMBLY.]

yearly production will amount to over5300,000 tolls of nitrogen.

That is what Germany had ft do when atwar with Great Britain and practically withthe rest of the world, ft may possibly bethought that the 'fiation of nitrogen has nosignificance for Australia. The very factthat the Germans were able to do this andto produce munitions of war at a tine whenthey were passing through such a terribleordeal, means that the production of 500,00tons of lim nitrogen per annuml increathe productivity of the soil of Germnytwofold. She has her dotmestic supply forall time, and if she were confrontedwith the necessity for going to waragain, she would not be dependentupon Chili or any other portion of theworld. A steel ring could be pot round-Germany and she would be self-contained. 1sit to ])e thought that that position haes beenarrived at by men who have shown a callousindifference to the industries that our civili-sation depends upon! Many anl Australian in1-(lustrv depends, in the first instance, upon theestablishment of this very important indus-try. What is requiredI to establish it? Thereire hundr-eds of thousands of tons of coalat Collie, vast quantities which will nieverbe exploited probably within the next 500years. Almost immneasurable beds of coal arethere, suitable for thep production of elec-trical energy. At Lake Clifton we have vastdeposits of clalu Carbonte, which ishighly suitable for indulstrial purposes, andthis is a most significant thing not only forthe State butl for the (Comm~onwealth as awhole. It menus that we have limne suitablefor all our industries for numbherless years,and if the Commonwealth Government donot intend to establish thc nitrogen in11-dustry to take advantage of these die-posits, the State should step in and doso. It is all very well for Ministers tosay: ''This is another State enterprise.''Even conservative Great Britain, the vastdollar-exploited America, andl almost everycivilised country of the world, have made thisa national monopoly. Only the other dlayG!reat Itritair handed over to Messrs. Brun-ncr Mlond & Co., uinder the strict suiper-vision of commissioners, her big line nitro-gen planxt, established duiring the war. Eventhe estalisinient of such a plant onl a snmallscale would give Western Australia not onlyadequate sup'plies for cyanide production, butfor the manufa, tnvr of explosives required inAustralia. There is no other State in theC'ommnonwealtlh which, by virtue of such vastresources, is in so unique a9 position, enablingthe establishment of these all-important in-flustries. We have certainly many othermineral resources that could he utilised.We have hnudreds of thousands oftons of mngnesite. Only a few daysalgzo I applied for the forfeiture ofseve-ral mineral lenses at Belong, and theyare now open for exploiting. That is anindustryv the Government could establish inWestern Australia. This product is required

in connection with the Bessemer steel fur-,,aces, and is used in the inner lining.At Giuildford, electric steel furnaces arebeing put np, and the whole of the mague-site necessary n-ill be produced in the State.The whole of the artificial flooring whichwill he put into the new post officee buildings,will lie drawn from snagnesite produced in.Western Australia. At the present time itis only produced Ii a trivial nllane. West-ern Australia has deposits of a magnitudesuffcient to establish an industry worth halfa million per annum. 'Magnesite supplies arealso drawn from New South Wales, but inWestern Australia we hare at elong fe-sources which are ten times greater thanthose existing in any other part of the Com-monwealth. Yet to-day the whole of thisvaluable deposit lies idle.

The Minister for Mines: We cannot dovery much with it yet, You know; we want1ppulation.

Ir. lA MBE lR'l' \"'s, and industries toab~sorb poputi son.

The Minister for Mines: But we have toget the p~opulationi first.

Nr. LA M11 RT: The iMinister should notgot it into his head that I am criticisinghi ma inl connection w-i th this imapo rt ant miat-let. As a matter of fact, the Administra-tion is not so mum-I, to blame as the disloyvalattitude of umany husiness people inthe State. Let inc give one instanceim which a bill fir,,, inl Perth wasconverned. I said - a little while agothat we have hundr-eds of thousands oftoils of inagnesite in Western Australia. Iwvent to this firrit and informied then, thatwe could produice quantities of this articlefor which they were staving £70 per tomi, andaske.i them if they would buy front us if wepiToduced it, The fi flu requested a sample.T asked them i whetheor they would know aSample if they saw it. As a matter of fact,T do tnt think the'- would have known thedifference between a sample of maguesitefroal this State amid a sample of the artiehthey sold1. It should not he a question of asamnple, hut whether it was suitable. To testthat, it was only niecessary to apply' heat.The fir,,, afterwards informed rae that theywere unable to dol anything as it would in-terfere with their conmmercial interests. Thatwas anl experience with one of the biggestfirms, in the State, yet such men go tothe Chamber of Commerce and the Chamn-ber of Manufactures and so on, and therewail ahout the amount of ta~ation the StateGovernm~ent requires them to pay. For mypart, I would tax them out of the cominer-(-in! life of the country, disloyal creaturesthat they are. People o f this tkpe shouldhie classed alongside the L.W.W., and itwould] he well to throw them all out of thecoutntry.

Mr. Teesdale: Hlear, hear!Mr. rAM8BVRT: Then tgain, let us sorn-

sider the vast salt deposits we have in West-ern Australia. The member for Roebourne(M.%r. Teesdale) will appreciate this ast

[14 OcToas, 1920.] 13

'of the qnestion, I know, for he controlssonic of these deposits. Three years ago Isubmitted pnrtieulars-I was not interestedother than in getting the particulars-to thethen Minister, showing the possibilities ofthe establishment of alkali works in WesternAustralia for the electrolytic generation ofcaustic soda and other allied products. Isnlnnitted the same particulars to experts inAmerica, giving them the cost of labour, de-tails regarding the salt, its value and so onl,anil these experts showed inc that it wouldreturn lpral'ti(.ally 100 per cent. onl the capi-tal outlay. Yet nothing has beeni done hcredespite the fact that we have salt lakeswhere the deposits are equal to the require-mnents. not only of Western Australia hut ofthe whole of Australia. Care should be takento foster the industry and yet nothing hasbeen done. Let us see what South Australiahas done. )n an article I read, it stated-

Towards the end of 1918 a conunittee,('onsisti ug of representatives of Austra-lian eLiniical firmsg working in conjunc-tion with the Bureau of Science mid In-dustries9, prosecuted inquiries concerningthe possibilities of successfully establish-ing the alkali industry in Australia. Thecomimittee visited different parts of theCommnni wealth to inspect suggested sitesfor works, but nothinig tangible arose outOf its inquiries. Meanwhile, however,other interests were at work on the sub-ject of alkali production in Australia.

The article goes on to state that as a resultof these further inquiries, the Standard SaltCompany of Australia are spending £75,000on the establishment of electrolytic worksto treat the salt in that State.

The Minister for Mines:- When BrunnerMond gets going, you will not know thatthose people are in existence.

Mr. LAMBERT-. If 50 Brunner 'Mond'sstarted, the Standard Company will havetheir plant going still. They can competewith any other large firm.

The Minister for Mines: Yes, but not ofthe same magnitude.

Mr. LAMBERT: Personally, I hopeBrunner Mond will start.

The Minister for '.%]!ies: At ally rate, weshould not interfere at thle present tinie.They should have a chance.

Mr. LAMBERT: The manufacture ofcaustic soda is only one of the manyramifications of the industry that BrunnerMondl will enter into if they establish worksin Western Australia, It does no harm atay rate to draw attention to these bigdeposits which can be untilised for our re-quirements. There is another interestingfeature, for it shows the unique positionpossessed by Bunbury, as the natural centrefor the piroduietion of cheap power and dis-tribution thence for utilisation in connec-tion with industry. I believe that Bun.-bury, from a geographical standpoint, isadmnirably situated for this purpose. As Isaid previously, I believe we would be justi-fied in launching a scheme to metallurgically

tr-at thle wholeC Of our] raw Materials. Iunderstand that this question is engagingthe attention of the -Minister. It has beenconsidered in a sort of acaileinic way in theMines Department, and I think tile Minl-ister inust he alive to the necessity for put-ting Lip central mietallurgical wvorks notonly to deal with coppier and lend but alsothe other Ores and( minerals We hav-e it] thisBtate. Take thev position at Northamptonin connection with gali-na. it is most suit-able for making white lead. The orerequired[ for the Tasmianian. elet-trolyticworks is taken from Northampton mnd sentto Tasmania, and we have to buy our whiteleadl back fromt there, We could do just aswell, and buy Ouli White lead just as chea.ply,if we utiliseri our galena here as in Tas-nman in.

Tme Minister for MLines: So we will here.Arr. LAMBERT. Where)Irrhe Minister for Mines: At WVest Guild-

f ord]..\Ir. l~~i~lP: That is amn electric

smelter there. Ani electrolytic plant is adifferent thing altogether.

Mr. Tesdale : They are qite differentpinants.

'rue MAinister for Mines: They are notcamir imig On smelting there omily.

Mr. T2AMIERT: [ think T know whatthey ame going in for, becauso I ami supply-ing sonte of the mnaterial for them. I know itis imot an electrolytic plant. I hope that they(10 utilise their plant there to show the pios-sibilities of electric lend smelting inl this'State. There is a lead smuelter operating iFrenmantle at the present time, but I do notthink that the firm there 'would say that theplant is other than out of date and ex-pensive to operate, and further, that theprospectors are not getting that return fromtie ore which they would get if a mnodernsmelter were establis;hed ii 'Western Aus-tralia. I hope the 'Minister for Mines willac-tively engage the attention of those underhis control in dealing with these problemsthat 1. have mentioned. It is pleaLsing toniote that Portland cemnt works are to beestablished on the Clifton lime deposits. Ithink that the valuable nature of the limedepmosits in the Swan River should also bemnamle known. If we were to produce threeor four times the quantity of Portlandcement which the present company canmake, it could all be sold in Western Akus-tralia, or at all events in other parts of Alta-trnlia. There again lies at unique oplportu-nitv for starting a big industry. AUi theconstituients required are to he found in theSwan River in hundreds of thousands oftons.

'Mr. Hlardwick; We could supply thlealgae for it,

Mr. LAMERT: Two or three years agoa proposition was put up to the Iltense fora concession to dredge the Swan River forthe shell and sludge to make Portlandcement. However, it was thought that itwould pollute or in other ways interfere

103.5

1036 [ASSEMBLY.]

with the river. Hon. members would befoolish to take that view of it, for whileserving to establish a big industry, it wouldalso improve the river. I believe this willbe one of the big key industries that willengage the attention of an advancedpolitical party in the near future. Even ifit is not tackled straight away-, the timemust come when, by the very force ofpublic opinion, assistance will have to beprovided, either by subsidy or by bonus, forthe encouragement of this industry. H1ow-ever, for the momen1t I am not concernedabout that; rather am I concerned aboutthese great unworked resources that wouldmean so much to Western Australia. I be-lieve that every member is fired with en-thusiasm to see Western Australia go ahead.It is only by the constant advertising ofthose resources, not merely on the floor ofthe House, but by a regular campaignthroughout the country, that 'We Canattract capital to exploit them andcut off those money grubs in the EasternStates that have for so long held us in afinancinl stranglehold. 'We get Ineinhers likethe member for Sussex (Mr. Pickering)who fancy that w e should throw downour fiscal barriers and allow our marketsto be exploited by outsiders. Thenwe have other hon. members who ques-tion our attitude towards the FecderalGovernment and the influence that floverat-ment have had on our finances. Possibly theinfluence of that Government upon our fin-ances has not been as great as the influenceof our own criminal indifference to our re-sources. If the State Government proposedto-miorrow to spend two or three millions inthe establishment of industries in the State,we should then be showing a commercial acti-vity which we have never yet displayed.I contend that we ought to manifest an ap-precintion of what we have. advertise it tothe world, show that we are prepared toattract capital, and explain what possibilitycapital has of succeeding in this State. Itrust that before we are much older manyof our valuable resources, which have beenfor so long left untouched, will be worked.The Goveriimnent would do well to comeforward with some comprehensive policy fordeveloping our neglected resources. I hopethat, roughly on the lines I have indicated,some little assistance will be given to themining industry. I trust that, instead of theprospector being exploited by the mnschinerymerchant, something will be done to assisthim. The question of the safety of theminers has been fairly well debated, andtherefore it is unnecessary for me to sayanything more on the subject. I hope thepoints I have touched upon will eneage theattention of the Minister and that by co-operation and advice our departmentalheads will dIo something to encourage theworking of our valuable mineral resources.It is stupid to keep our professionalheads in their respective offices insteadof letting them get outside to see what

the world is doing. I do not wish to particu-larise unnecessarily. I am not setting oneofficer above another, but I believe that wehave in Dr. Simpson, of the Geological flu-partment, .a man who has shown practicalsympathy with the development of our min-eral resources. There are other excellentofficers, some of them attached to the Schoolof Mines in Kalgoorlie, but they are all un-fairly handicapped by being kept at homewhen they should be sent abroad to investi-gate.

The Minister for Mines: What has be-come of the twopenny stamp?

Mr. LAMBERT: It is all very well for theMinister to treat the matter lightly.

The Minister for Mines: But a little whileago you suggestedl that we could do all thatis necessary with a tweperny stamp.

Mr. LAM.NBERT- I suggested nothing ofthe sort. I said that, with valuable expert-ments going on in America, we should notbe conducting similar experiments here whena twopenny stamp would bring us all thenecessary information. I would not in theslightest degree discount the work of ouroffiers; I only say that we should not carryout unnecessary experiments. There is verynecessary experinmental work to be donein Western Australia, and in addition thereis the cataloguing of the whole of the min-eral resources of the State to be carried out.'With efficient officers having the necessarypractical and theoretical knowledge, weshould be doing something to advertise andutihise our very valuable mineral resouirces,which would mean so much to advance thefinancial and commercial interests of West-ern Australia.

[MA~r. Mfussic took the Chair.]

Mr. MALEY (Greenough) [9.23]: I con-gratulate the hon. member on his interest-ig speech, and I suggest to my friends op-

posite that if they again come into powerthey should place him at the head of theMines Department, and supply him with afew million pounds to spend, tn the hopethat he will give a fresh impetus to the in-dustry. I shall be glad if the Minister, whenreplying to the debate, explains the posi-tion in regard to boring for coal on theIrwin River.

The Minister for Mines: I1 think you hadlbetter leave tbat alone.

Mr. NIAtEY: Possibly from the point ofview of the department it ought to be leftalone. There is a general feeling throughoutthe district that no proper investigation was,made before the actual boring operationswere commenced, that the boring plant wassim ply loaned to a prospector working therefor a small Kalgoorlie syndicate, and thatno investigation was made by any officer ofthe department. T unders9tandi it was neverexpected. to flild nnythin'z beforet the t'orereached 800 feet. anid that the here is notyet down to anythin-r like that depth, There

1036

[14 OCTOBHER, 1920.] 1037

can be no doubt that the coal is there. As toits value, that can only be proved by boring.The district is entitled to an explanationas to "hat has actually been done and as towhether ally proper investigation was madebefore the boring operations began.

Mr. Smith: What was the angle of theunderlay?1

Mr. MALEY: The angle of the underlayof the lion. memnber's ,mind would he farnmore interesting. The feeling throughout thedistrict is that the boring has not been givena proper trial, and I should- like the Minis-ter to make a clear explanation ats to theprogress of the work.

The Minister for Mines: Why did notsome of you protest when the boring wascommencedT

Mr. MALEY: The general feeling in thedistrict is that, owiing to the fact thatthe coal deposits are surrounded - byconcessions to the Midland Railway C;om-play, the boring will not get a fairtrial. It was interesting this after-noon to hear that a geological survey bul-letin in connection with the Northaimptondistrict was issued as far back as 1902 or1903. 1 do not think that up to that timesufficient work had been done in the districtto furnish satisfactory data for a geologicalsurvey. The developments dnrinez the pant15 or 16 years in other parts of the districtwould give much mere satisfactory data.I am pleased to know that the Ministerintends to bring the geological surveyof the district uip to date. The Minister,when ini Geraldton recently, was approachedon the subject of the establishment of smelt-ing worksz. It is gratifying to learn that hestill maintains an open mind on the ques-tion.

Mr. O'Loghlen: Do you think you canclose it?

Mr. MALEY: I do not know. It may bethat my mind is closed because, naturally, Iwish to see the works established in my ownelectorate. It is only reasonala to honethat we shall get a fair deal in this connec-tion. There are severnl factors which havea bearing Upon the opening uip of the portof Geraldton, and this is one of them whichwe cannot afford to overlook. If we canl getfreezing works, smelting works and. event-i-ally, grain elevators established at Gerald-ton, the port will then be comin- knto theconsideration which it deserves. The mem-ber for Coolgardie (Mr. Lambert) said thatin connection with a new venture north ofMeekatharra, he and his company wouldprobably be sending anything "ip to 50,000tons of manganese ore per annem throughthe port of Ocroldton, if ship'iine arran-e-meits could be completed. I shall not occupyany further time because T realise that thebona fide mining representatives on the Op-position side oif the House are entitled toventilate their views regarding the industry.I am pleased to say that the mining indus-try in my district is in full swing once more,

and we are hoping that it will progress andildevelop into a tremendously big industry.

Mr. LUTEY (Rrownhull-Ivanhoe) [9.311:The Minister, in introducing his Estimates,referred to the lack of labour on the mines.There are several reasons to account for this.Large numbers of miners enlisted and manyof them, unfortunately, never returned.Others again have gone into different walksof life. Among other causes is the low rateof wages ruling on the Eastern goldfields, arate which is not attractive to men to seeka livelihood in the mines. Some of the menleft the deep mines for the new fields 12months ago. Many of them I know person-ally. Since the Hampton Plains boom sub-sided, some of these men have returned tothe Boulder district, and it is remarkablebow their health improved during the fewmonths they were working in the shallowmines in the Hampton Plains district. Someof these men are quite afraid to return towork in the deep mines. They realise thedanger of working in mines at a depth ofover 3,000 feet and in the wide stopes, andonly economic pressure will compel them toreturn to the deep mines after having had aspell out of them. There is the additionaltear of contracting miners' phithisis, notonly underground but amiongst the drycrushing plants. I have a list of the ace,-dents which have occurred in the mines dur-inf thle years 1901 to 1918 inclusive. In1901 there were 45 fatal and 123 seriousaccidents; inl 1918 there wvere 23 fatal and542 serious accidents. Whereas in 1901,16,755 men were employed, in 1918 only 7,790men were employed. The total number ofaccidents for the years 1901 to 1918 was597 fatal and 8,096 serious accidents. Thesefigures convey some idea of the risks andflnngers to which the men employed in themnn g industry are exposed. I believe thatthe 'Minister andt the departmental officialsarc seized with thle necessity for takingevery possible precaution to minimise thedangers. The Minister, in referring to casesof minlers' phthisis, inferred that many ofthe ,ten left it too late before deciding toquit the indtistry. There are large numbers ofminers who enjoy apparently good health Upto a certain point, but when they finally gointo the sanatorium, it is found that the'l-iss has reached such an advanced stagethat there is very little chance of their re-covery. When T first entered the HouseI spoke of the urgency of instituting som~eselheme for miiners onl the lincs of the repat-riation scheme adopted by the Common.wveathI Government in the interests of re-turned soldiers. Tt is absolutely necessarythat the Government should do somethingin this direction. There should be an an-isal ispeetion of miners in order thattimely warning might bep given them of thestate of their lungs, which inspection shoulaao hland in hand with a scheme for set-tling these men on the land or in otheravocations. I 'wish to direct attention tothe paper which was read by Dr. Mitchell,

1038 [ASSEMBLY.]

of the Wuioroluo sanatorium, at thle recenthealth conference. His remarks bear ou.what has been said in this louse ont manyoctasions and, towinig from such an ntin,.rity us hie, they ;,re worthy Of being re-corded in ''Hausard.'' i the subject u,the occurrence of tubiertulous disease i..miners, Dr. Mitchiell said-

Out of 1,738 cases of respiratory dis-eases treated at Wooroioo since its open-ing in May, 1915, there were 432 miners,788 males in other occupations and 518females. There were many of the 788labelled as ''other occupations,'' how-ever, who had been previously been en-gaged in mining. When we consider thatthe majority of these mien should havebeen in their prine instead of, as in mostistances, at death 'a dloor, or advanced

in fibrotic disease, supieri mposed tubercu-losis, and bankrupt in reserve str-ength orrecuperative power, surely it is time some-thing was done to save them fronm them-selves by preventing thenm from continu-ing to work i flu industry when theyhave reached a certain stage. Here myclaim of the misfit is obvious. The manlbecomes of no use to himself, his em-ployer, tine community, and last, but niotleast, his wife and family. It is notsuffcient to give his family or himselfa dole of relief when hie should neverhave been permitted to get to the stage,he lhes reached. Somec will tell you it isthe manl's own fault, that hie should notcontinue. Bunt if hie knows nothing else,'where is his outlet! Ii, my annual re-port I recommnendied that vocationaltraining synchronous with work in themining industry should he practised, andif what is looming on the horizon-sa 44-hour week-ensuies, surely this is practic-able. It does not seem good business towait until there is a breakdown in health.Let us then consider from a public healthpoint of 'view the treatment of tuberen-losis. Firstly: Safeguard the dangers oftthe predisposing causes; and secondly,eilre facilities for early diagnosis andtreatment. I ami no advocate for institu-tion or sanatorium life. I say life ad-visedly, for by the time they aire sent tothe State Sanatorium, in the majority ofcases, they have passed the stage of so-call eure. Failing compulsory sanatorium.treatment, thler free treatinent at home,under supervision, the same as for vene-real disease; careless consumptives notobserving conditions to be compulsorilysegregated, maintenance of familiesI in-suirances, etc.-, to be carried out; 'oca-tional training for consuriptix-es fit towork. We in Australia talk ait present alot about the creation of industries. Thenlet us, with the benefit of the experienceof others, see that health conditions arecgidilv treated -ud eonseived in the bestpossible way. N high wage with plentyof spending silver is not ev-erything.Yations which will not hank on the public

health of their people cannot expecttheir material finau,:es to prosper or bal-ancte. l cannot see any hoGpe Of dealingwith the public health aspect of tubercu-losis unless syiipethetie and generouslegislation isa introduced and carried out.Any- of us tiay become the a-cideats otthis disease. Wh'y not Insure against itby avoiding predisposiug causes, and lettis help misfits or those in a vicious circle.We must have insurasitce "-hereby apiatient having been put oil to the roadof permanent -health, does not return tohis previous position in a vicious circle.Legislation, however, whuich is oppressiveagainst the sufferers must defeat its D11luends.

I hope the- ;overnmetut will giv-e serious at-tentiont to this matter and n-ill not lie conl-tent merely to talk show it. They shouldge(t dnowi, to l,':si,,etn no see whethier sonic-thing tangible Pannot be, d-ne to preserveto thle S.tate tile lives of thesie mcii. It wouldbie anl eonomic adlvantage to the State itthek Government brought down some con-crete proposition to deal with this questionUi a sensible manner. There areivnmnbers of miners who have sufferedthe- loss of limbs in the mines. Ihave in mind one individual who buslost both legs. T refer to Dawson, who isknown to the Minister. 'Many years ago hiemiet with anl accidenit. The artificial legs'with w'hich lie wvas provirded, have worn out,nd it is necessary to him to procure a newpa ir. ie thought that he might be able toobtainl thleml fromn the Defence Departmentartificial limbh factory', hut it seenis that they.ref use to supply anyone outside retulrned sol-die rs. If the Government ma11de representa-tions to the Coiunonwesith they might beable to arrange for these disabled indus-trial soldiers to he supplied also. This manis prepared to pay for them. IU he has togo to MIelbourne, it will cost him about 140to Procure the artificial litubs over and abovethe expensies of the trip. The 0GovernmenthIold eleiavour to hielp such men in Order

to avoid the wnnecess4ary expense of travel-ling to Melbourne aind hack, I had intendedto deal with several other matters, but as thehour is late I shell refer to only one or two.I wish to again speak of the deep boring atthe north end, where there has been a gooddevelopment at 'Maymnan Cousals within thelast few days. If thle Government undertookdeep boring in this particular centre, I feelconfident that new finds would be discovered.Seeing that it is so close to the Kalgoorlierailway, this would he particularly beneficialto the State. The Rot-eminent shouldasmst in every Possible way the people tocarry on deep boring in this part. ThetrihlUting question was dealt with exten-sively last evening, nd T shall not touch onit beyond qaving that if a Bill is intro-ducied, I should like it to include a provisionthat trihnters shbould receive thme amount ofwnec rulinuz in thle district before an;- roy-alty is deduc ted from the value of their pro-

1038

[14I OcToBER, 1920.] 13

duction. The Minister referred to .1Ir. Ivesais a vcry old prospector. It might lie ofsonic information to him to know that Mr.lies has been travelling through the aurifer-ous belts of our back country for the last25 years, and that hie has kept a diary of histravels. T lint the pleasure of reaing thediary kept during the trip when he discov-ered St. Ives, and it made very interestingreading. T think it would bie w-eli worthwhile if the M.%ines Department got somebodyt0 collaborate with '.%r. [sea, and lpnt thatinformation into book formn for the benefitof the people of this Ptate. I think hie wouldbe only too willing to place it at the disr-posal of the (lovernuient. If thle remnainder-of the diary is ns interesting and eontainsas much inforination as thle portion I haverend, it will lie of value not Only to thle ov-ermnent but to every prospector. T hope thatthe report of the supervisor of Governmentbatteries onl thle St. [ves district will befavourable. T know the possibilities of thatdistrict. If a battery is installed it willassist some of the poorer men who harepromising mines there, but who do not knowwhen they will be provided with crushingfacilities. If the Government lo decide toinetal a battery there at once it will takesome months before it is in operation. Ifit were known that the Government intendedto erect the battery there, it would provea filip to the work in the district. Tn mlyopinion the district promises to be almostanother Golden Mile. T hope the 'Ministerwill give the question his sympathetic con-sideration.

Mr, TROY (Mt. Magnet) [9.47]: T anmsorry that more interest is not being takenhr hon. members in these E~stimates. I amalso struck by the fact that the newlyformed Primary Producers'I Association,which has branched out so as to cover everyprimary industry in the State: is not repre-seated in the Chamber to-night.

The Minister for Mines:- They leave it en-tirely in my hands.

Mr. TROY: The 'Minister is present be-cause he is obliged to be here -to handle hisown Estimates. The interest that this newparty takes in the mining industry is trulyremarkable.

Mr. Teesdale: Judging from the emptybenches they are pretty broad in their ideas.

Mr. TROY: I appreciate the handicapwith which the Minister is faced in his ad-ministration of this industry- Of all the in-dustries in the State the mining industry ismost sadly embarrassed by present conditions,and has been most embarrassed throughoutthe war. Neither the Minister nor the de-pnrtment has been able to further the in-terests of the industry in the way that weshould have liked. The fact that this indois-try is so sadlly hampered to-day is a reasonwhy the Government should afford to it somegenerous consideration. Particularly is thisso in view of the importance of the industry

to the State, and the great importance ithas been to us in the past. Despite whathas been said about agriculture and otherinduistries, it is a fac-t that "-crc the bottomto fail out of the mining industry, West-ern Australia would be shaken to itsfoundations. I regret that, although thePress of the State canl find room for thev-erbatim accounts of pressmen who aceom-piari Ministers to the agrietultoral districts,regarding what is being dlone in thoselocalities and the birth of new ideas forthe still further developmnt Of the agri-cultural industry, very little regard is paidto mininig. It is a notoriouis fact that the''West Australian,'' the leading newspaperof the State, pays but scant attention to thisindustry, if we turn to the back page ofthat newspaper we may find an extract fromthe "'Kalgoorlie Miner'' or some other coun-try journal with reference to, say, sontic mineat Hampton Plaius. A p~rospectors ' c-onfer-eace was recently held at _1t. Magnet, Therewere present at this conference a number ofmen who had been engaged in the industryfor upwards of 25 years. Not one represen-tative of the metropolitan Press was present,and I have no recollection of ever seeingany of the resolutions submitted to the Mini-ister there or his replies published in anymetropolitan newspaper.

The 'Minister for Mines: They were.M1r. TROY: T did not see them, The

''West Australian'' had nothing to sayupon the miatter, anld yet we are asked to be-lieve that this is a national newspaper hay-ig at hecart the inter-est of every industry

inl the State. Let the Premier go to LakeGrace, Wyalcatchem, or Plenjabbering, andhis every word is reported in the paper.

Eon. P. Collier: And it is kept t1) for aweek.

Mr. TROY": His very conversation is re-ported. We are told that the wisdom of adozen Soloniuns is expressed by him and con-'-eyed to the readers of that jonrnal. Thewhole attention of the pressmen accompany-ing him is given to listening to scraps ofconversation in thle expectation of the dis-covery of sonic new idea. I rememberreading in the 'Press the other day the ac-count of a discussion which took place inthe train between the Vremier anid the Com-missioner for the Wheat Belt (Mr. Sutton).They were discussing the value of second orthird class land, and as to what should bedone with it. The pressman, with both earsstrained, was listening to grasp the bril-liant idea. He heard 'Mr. Sutton say, "Growoats; feed it off.'' To the Pressman thiswas indeed a brilliant ceonception. That un-fortunate pressman was not aware that thesettlers of this country ha- ,ve be:,n followingout that idea for the past ten years. Wbilst Iadmit that attention should be given tooery induistry' , I regret that the mining in-dus try, which has made so prosperous thesPress of the State, receives so little con-sideration from it.

1039

1040 [ASSEMBLY.]

Hon, P. Collier: The Premier it at Norro-gin. Look out for the next few days.

Mr. TROY: The Minister has drawnt at-tention to the importance to this State of themining industry. Apart from dividendskniounting to £27,000,1000, the gold mines ofthe State have been responsible for an ex-peniditure within the country, in wages andon commodities required in connection withthe industry, of £114,000,000. Tis is a re-markabhie sum, tad it has been the means oflaying the foundations of the agricultural in.dustry. It has also led to the foundation ofthe pastoral industry. Notwithstanding thepresent prosperity of the pastoraliste, thereare sonic who were obliged to struggle foryears en the Mfurehison until the advent of themining industry. The best market the agri-culturist and the pastoralist has is the gold-fields market, where the people whoare engaged in the production of goldhave to buy everything they requirefor thoir everyday needs, I am notconcerned about the less of £'moo 000on the State batteries system ini a period of25 years, when one comnpares that lows withthe loss on the railways in one year of£400,000, £300,000 of which is dlebited to theagricultural industry. ,The loss on the Statebatteries system does not amount to muchwhen we consider the loss incurred to theState on other industries, on which by farthe greater portion of our loan revenue isbeing expended. I have nothing to sayagainst the expenditure on time agriculturalindustry, but T do object to this everlastingreproach that the State batteries are losingprepositions, and the statement that the min-ing industry cannot be helped for the rea-son that this or that system dues not pay.I listened with interest to the speech of themember for Coolgardie (Mr. 'Lambert). Itwas a brilliant speech from a technicalstandpoint, but I think we should require tobe possessed of Brewster's millions to putinto effect every suggestion made in it. Iam fully aware of the extensive mineralresources of Western Australia. If we hada population of 5,00,000 we could do allthese things and properly tlevelon the State,and would of course have at much larger localmarket for our products. Much ss I want tosee the mining indiistry' go ahead. T wouldnot say that the 'Minister Was justified inspending millions of money on the prospectof creating industries, to maintain which thepopulation is altozether ton small.

The Minister for M.%ines: We cannot estab-lish them without the population.

Mr. TROY-: We should not he pessimisticabout the industry. The "Mines Departmentshould be just as optimiistic recardingZ thefuture of the mnining industry as are theofficers. of the Agricultur~al Department re-garding their particular industry, end I donot say they are not. The officials of theMines Department have been criticised to-night. but I have always found them mostcourteous and obliging and up to date in allmatters that I have brought under their

notice. I have frequently interviewed theUnder Secretary, and other officers of the do-partment on subjects affecting my censtitul-eats, aud on every occasion I have met withmost symlpathetic consideration. I speak ofthem as I find them. Possibly sonic men doget tired in their positiens and get a tooliugthnt the industry is going down without theirbeing able to help it. If such an impressiongets abroad there will he no enthusiasm inthe service.

Hon. P. Collier: Their positions are moredlifficult than those of officers in other depart-mena. They have a mere anxious time ofit than the others

Mr, TROY: There is no0 qu~estion aboGutthat. In other industries nature conies to theiraid, The agricultoral or the pastoral indus-try inay be in a had way this year, but nextyear may see it right again. This does nothold good so far as the mining industry isconcerned, and that is all the more re-ason.why the department should be olptihlistic asto the future. I hope when the Loan Esti-mates are brought dowii they will providea sumn of money to assist the development ofmining in the direction of opening uip newfields. I place great reliance onL the Statebattery system. I hold the opinion thatthe person who has been engaged inelementary maine developament has beenmore assisted by the State battery sys-tem than any other. W~hen the 'Minister forMines was at M.%t. Magnet recently many mat-ters were brought under his notice, thegreat majority of which were associated withthe managemcnt, control and charges ofthat system. I was pleased that the 'Ministerreceived the representations of the con-ference in the way he did. I realiecd at thetime that probably the 'Minister could notgrant all the requests, although senme of themin my opinion, were essesitial, particularlythat as to the charge for treatment of sands.I went to 'Magnet prior to the Minister'svisit and told the delegates appointed towait on him, "'Get down to bed-rock; do netask for impossible things.'" To my mind theMinister dealt as fairly as he could with thedelegates at that meeting, and I think theyappreciated it. This brings me to the fact thatthe 'Minister's visit to the 'Murehison was thefirnt visit paidI by a Minister to that districtfor about six years. That is wrong. If Min-isters can find time, as they do every week,to journey to other places, they ought to visitthe cold fields. Apart from the actual goodresulting from such visits, Ministers have theadvantage of coming into persmmal contactwith the amen who are pioneering the in-.dulstry and of having a god heart to h-arttalk wi'th them. I consider that the 'Ministerfor 'Mines ought to pay a yearly visit tothe goldifields. Heo has a car at his di-sposal,andi to pay a yearly' visit would not be veryhard. Every week some member of this GoV-erment is to be found in the agriculturaldistricts meeting the settlers and inquirioginto their grievances and showing the agra-eulturists that the Government take an in-

1040

[14 OcTanE, 1920.]104

terest in their welfare. One matter discdssedat that Magnet conference and agreedto by the Minister I have not yet seen inoperation. I know that various matters dis-cussed there have been put into practicaloperation, but the establishment of advisoryboards in connection with assistance to mnin-ing in various localities I have not yet heardanything of. The conference was held onthe 7th September, anti it is due from theMinister to put the principle of advisoryboards into operation at the first oppor-tunity. What embarrasses the miningindustry to-day is, in my opinion, thehigh cost of production; and some ofthis high cost is due to the highrailway rates& I was surprised to learnthe other day that, despite the promisegiven by the Minister, railway rates hadagain been increased on those commoditieswhich are required in gold productionI think that is deplorable, When the Com-mittee remembers that the value of goldis fixed, that all the commodities requiredin gold production must be carried overhundreds of miles of railways, and that thepeople engaged in the gold mining industrydo not, like the ngriiculturists and pastoral-ists, 'share in the increased prices of thecommodities produced, members must recog-giise that sonic consideration is required bythe goldfields in the matter of railway rates.When the farmers of this country were i~ntrouble and made demnands for Governmentassistance, I said, ''The need of the farmersis greatest now, and their demtands shouldbe met." I ant convinced, despite the ap-parent sympathetic initerest of 'the -Min-ister, that the Government have not takenlip that attitude. With regard to the in-creased railway freights, I cannot excusethe M5inister for 'Mines. I think the freightsshould be so arranged as to press leastheavily on that portion of the communitywhich lives in the most remote areas of theState, and the industry of which is sadlyhandicapped by heavy burdens and cannotexist if those burdens are increased. Thatis the chief difficulty as regards the miningindustry to-day. Another matter is thmequestion of wages in the industry. .As afact, the lowest wage provided by the rail-way award is higher than that Teceived bythe miners working in some places tnder-ground. The Arbitration Court, to whichmien are told they must go, is always pre-pared to give an increase to civil servants.apparently because the Government can taxto raise the amount of the increase. On theother hand, the court refuses to increasewages in the industry which is the worstin the country from a health point of view.T am amazed at the fact that the Arbitra-tion Court insists in connection with themining industry on a condition which wouldbe considered most unfair in connectionwith a Government industry. The Arbitra-tion Court considers it an improper thingfor the miners to ask for paid holidays,but in connection with the Railway IDopa~t-

meet the court considers such a demandentirely proper, and similarly in connectionwith private businesses, where the increasedcost can be passed on. In connection withthe mining industry, which I now do notadvise anyone to enter, which I now adviseeverybody to get out of, the court considersthat a detent n-age canno 't be borne. Theresult is that the condition of the men work-lng in that industry is to-day the worst inAustralia. I do not make these statementsin order to inflanme the miners. I do notwish to play up to any section. I am makingthese statements dispassionately and calmlyand deliberately, because I believe them tobe absolutely correct. The men engaged inthe industry which is the most detrimentalfrom a health standpoint to be found inWes tern Australia to-day, are placed in theworst position to-day by the ArbitrationCourt. As a result the mining industry isnot attractive to the men, and many aregetting out of it.

Eon. P. Collier: Twelve shillings and six-pence a day at Kalgoorlie!

[Mr. Stubba resumed the Chair.]

Mr. TROY: Let it also be rememberedthat places like Sandstone and Magnetand Youanme have not had a residentdoctor until the last few months. In fact,during the whole period of the war therewas only one doctor on the Murchison. Thewives and children of the miners are justas dear to them as their wives and childrenare to the residents of thme most closelysettled districts of Western Australia. Re-moved from the advanktages; that otherpeople enjoy, the miners are getting full] upof these conditions. ft is up to the Gov-ernment to give proper consideration topeople who do pioneer, and who work in theunhecalthiest areas of this State. Theyshould receive consideration rather more thantshould the people living in healthy districtsuinder better conditions. There is -anothermnatter to which I may refer in passing. Weaire frequently told that this is a time whenproduction is essential if we are to mpakegood and pay our way. We are told thatthe worker most set his mind on producingif time cost of living is to be reduced. To-daythere is an industrial trouble on the Murchn-sun, The Arbitration Court has, in effect,given an award, and the miners at Mdeeka-tharra and Cue have pulled out because theChamber of Mines will not observe theaward in the spirit and tme letter.The worst feature of thme business isthat the Arbitration Court did not sitas a court, for the reason that theunions concerimed were not registeredtinder the Act. Through having joinedthe A.W.U. they had forfeited theirregistration for the time being. But bothsides agreed to acrept the Arbitration Courtas a tribunal. The couirt gave its award,one of the conditions of which was that" the men employed shall begin with

1041

104-2FASSE7%I~iIAX1

the whistle on the surface and end with thewhistle on thle surface.'' That means thebank to bank system. The Chamber ofMines have absolutely refused to recognisethat jprinci pie, notwithstanding that whenthe claim for the principle "'as made by theminers thle Chamber of 'Mines agreed to itbefore referring the dispute to the vourt ataUl. That is the whole cause of the presenttrouble on the Mourchison, and f do ask theMinister for 'Mines to use whatever infou-en1ce the Governmnent possess with n view toobtaining recognition of the pirinci ple,so that ticacefl. relations mnay bti re-established. The Chamber of Minies agreedto that principle in their answer to theclaim, aiid the principle is in operation atCollie and elsewhere. But it was refusedon the Murchison, with tim result that theminers pulled out The Clianiber of Minescannot be sued for breach of the award, be-cause the award is not a legal award.Though it is morally binding, it is not legallybinding. I consider th4- uttitude of theChamber of Mines to lie most reprehensible.Having agreed to the pirilnciple, they oughtto stand by it-. Since thme award is only fora period of 12 months, they will have anopportunity to appeal to the court for re-vision of thme matter after a comparativelyshort lapse of time. The niemimier for Cool-gardie (-MAr. Lanmhert) dealt with the ques-tion of molybdetiite. 1 have been muchconcerned as to what can be done with re-gard to this mineral. At Warriedar thereis said to be one of the biggestmolybdenite deposits known. M r. A. E.Morgans holds an option on the deposit.There is a hill 200 feet high con-taining. I understand, avery fine bodyof 'noly'bdenite. Mr. Morgans is saidto be quite satisfied on that point.'Ar: Hudson, ixinen -Minister for -MinesI hadagreed to erect a mill there to treat the ore;,but he teamporised and temnporiseil, as hieusually does in most matters, and there wasno result. I would like to ask the Ministerfor Mines what has beea done lately in thematter, and whether there is any possibilityof a market being found for the sale of thatore, because there are men in the districtnow engaged in sandalwood getting andshearing who are waiting for the day whenthat mineral will be mined. Turning now tothe question of the health of our miners, letmte say that I was struck by the Minister'Isspeech to-ilay. It is the first time that Ihave heard a Minister other than a LabourMinister snake a reference showing concernand regard for the health of our miners.When the 'Minister was making his state-mnent it struck me that something ought tohe done to "repatriate" miners before theircondition becomes too serious, ".repatriate"them so that they may remain useful citzeusof the country. To-day we are reaping thefruit of the policy which was condemaed inyears gone by from this side of the House,our condemnation of it, however, being en-tirely ignored. The present Minister for

M\inds was one of those who then poiuted outwhat munst be the result of the poli~y en-couraged by the ninibers of the then LiberalGovernment. I am glad to know from theospeech delivered by thme M.inister for MAine4to-night that lie is still consistent. Wepmoiintel out years ago that ev-entually th?!m1ining industry wouldf he 1ripipled by reasonot tie Ii mi th of thev old niiners becoming

i-nla, owiii_, to umhealtli ' vconditions, thatThey -tui m00itut caLrry onm their ot-cfopftifln.Tim-uighit we havNVard thle MNin~ister forMi1nes arknowledging thut there has come tolitis thant i-1udition whichl we spoke about forycalKps t, %vhich we tried to obviate anl.which our opponents did nothing toprevent. lhad Mr. Gregory listenedyea ns ago, in all probability by nowsonic liractical mneans would have beenadlopteil to cope with the disease, which isso widespread in the goldfields at the presenttime. ruhere is yet timie to do something andI hope that the Government will give thismatter their most earniest consideration. I

have betore me a letter which gives someiiartieulars of one of very many such cases-Writing fromn 3Teekathnsrra on the 6th Oe.lolmer this nin says-

I am writing a few lines to youi to letyou know I aint out of the hospital, as youknow how my armn was when you werelit-re, tigliting our i-nose.

That was ini MNay last. le has been in hos-pital ever since then.

f can tell you I have had a very hard timeof it. I returned to the mine to work butbad to leave through nmy health again. Iaim - completely settled for undergroundwvork. The doctor told me not to go un-derground again, so I took a job wood-cutting for the Fenian gold mine. I her-ron-ed a tutnont bhit they nmay take it fromtme iny- day and then I will be settled.Seeing that T have been front 25 to 30rears residlent between -Magnet and Meeka-tharra, I thought you might be able tosecure a Government turnout to help metarry on umy living for mny wife and fivechildren.

I kinow this in well, lie is an able workeraimd yet his ease is liut one of many.

Hon. P. Collier: And he has been from2.5 to .30 years in the bark country.

Mr. TROY: Yes, and he married there.Hon. P. Collier: He deserves a pension

for life.Mr. TROY: Hle is a hard worker, and I

knew by the shortness of his breath, whenlie spoke to me at Meekatltarra, that lie wassrttled. So it is with a big majority of theimei, and a great number of them are look-ing for an opportunity to get away from themines. When I was in Meekatharra last Iwas spoken to by quite a number who wereanxious to get away and take uip land. Ihave had a letter from one of them, a Mr.PhInkett, who is quite a young man, sayingthat he was anxious to go on the land. rwent to the Lands Department in an en-c*avour to get land for him along the Won-

1042

(14 OOTOasz, 1920;]

gan Hills line. f was told by Air. O'Dell atthe department that there was not an acreof land available there. I was surprised forI had travelled there and found thousands ofacres where not one tap of improvement hadbtee done. I made it my business to travelhome last time via the Wongan Hills line,-nd the member for Cue (M~r. Cliesson)- andI saw thousands of acres of first class landwlierc not an axe stroke had been put in.Bere are mining men anxious to go on theland and1( do0 thle pioneering work. How is itpossible that any set of men are allowed tohold sucht land all these years without mak-ing the necessary iniproveints9 I know thatthis is not altogether a matter that can bedis.cussed under mining, but I speak in theint 'erest of the health of thle miners I referto Such a thing as I have described is utterlywrong, and it is up to the Governament to takeaction. I have nothing more to say regard-ing thle M.%ines Estimiates. My remarks wouldbave been mnore extensive had it not been forthe fact that the 'Minister for Mines visitedMlount Magnet recently, and all the mat-ters which were regarded as acute werediscussed with him then. May I express thehope that As the Minister gave satisfactoryreplies concerning 95 per cent, of the mat-ters brought- before him, I will have nothi ngto complain of regarding his promises beingput into operation. Personally, I shall be veryglad to hellp the Mfinister in any way that Ican in connection with the mining industry.f know what it has done for thle country andwhat it means to the State. Other indus-tries should help this industry because it pro-i-ides thle best mnarket for the people engagedin thiem. It is upI to the Government to givethe mining community a mearoire of fairtreatment, for they are pioneering uinder theworst conditions.

Air. Maley. The industry is getting assist-ancze like thle farmers.

Mr. TROY: That is ridiculous. What isthe good of talking like that? They arenot getting Os. a dlay like the farmers.

Mr. Mraley: We were told this afternoonthere was a loss of a million and a halfsterling.

Ar. TRIOY: I showed that whereas thereis a loss of 1600,C011 on the State batterysystem over 2-.5 years, there was a loss ofr£C400,000 onl the railways alone last year,largely due to the agricultural industry, Sofar as the relative mecrits are concerned, bothindustries are entitled to fair considerationfront the State. Thle farmaer on the landlgetting 9s. a day-

Hon. P. Collier: Creating capital while lieis there.

-Mr. TROY: And with the TIdustries As.sistanee Board behind hizi to gamble on, lieis in a happy position. I do not know ofany manl who is in a happier position, and iti; III) to thaqt industry to give considerationito those who are not in so fortunate aposition.

r391

Mr. 0 'LOCHLEN (Forrest) [10.23] : Mlyremnarks on this vote will be brief. I wouldnot have risen at all bail it not beeni for adlesire to draw attention to the disgracefuleondition of affairs in the House ,during thedlhwussion onl the mining Estimates.

mr. Maley: It is always the same.Mr. 01'LOQULEN: During the debate,

thoughtful speeches have been made and yetmtembers hav-c beeni absent front their placesin the ( hamber.

Mr. 'Male;': You should hie the last todraw attention to that.

Mlr. 0 LOGH LEN: I fail to see the pointof the interjection.

'Mr. Mfaler: I fnil to see the point ofyours.

Mr. O'LOGIILEN': The hon. meniber be-longs to a party claiming to take a deep andabiding interest inL the mining industry, antionly during recent days we have seen afeature mtade of their desire. to broaden outtheir support of thle primary industries. Wehave listened to-night to soine thoughtful,consituctive speechies-and I do not reiniem-her ever listening to anty inore thoughtfulspeeches onl this vote for the past 12 years-p'ertaining to the mining industry,. and thosewho have sat in the House opposite deservecommendation. For the most part, bencheson the Ministerial side hare been empty forthle last hour and a quarter, while real, logi-cal, instructive facts relating to the miningindustry have been advanceed. 'Memnbers sit-timng on this side of the House have givenlfair and reasonable attention when agricul-tural mnatters have been undier discussion, notonl -y listening to the, debate but giving everyencouragement to agricuiltural members whenthey advainced their interests. It is a regret-table incident, and I trust that any otherineinbers speaking onl this vote will 3 et thmeattention whicht thle subject deserves.

Mr. Maley: What about your side of theIton1se7

Mr. O'LOOI{IKN: Our side! On yourside there are .34, and not moore than fivehave been listening for the last houir and aqu a ter.

Hln P. Collier: And not a primary pro-duceci there.

Mr, OLTOG ILEN: 'Not one, until thememiber for York (1Mr- Griffiths) value in afew minutes ago to ]told the fort. E believeit is oaly a fair thing to direct thle attentionof inenibers n-ho are 1 resent to thme duity andobligations which rests upon. utemherq as aWhole.

Mfr. MNaley: I have been here toost of thenlight.

Mr. 0 'LOOB.LEN : I ant not drawing par-tieultir attention to thle lion. iemther. Thefact remnains that this position is unsatis-factorv and T trust that thle members repre-senlting primary production, will be preparedto give greater attention to matters affectingtile joining industry in the future. It is nowondler that the mnining industry languisheswhen public men do not take any interest

1044 ASSEMBLY.)

in its prosperity. A large percentage ofmembers have not displayed that interestwhich the industry warrants and which thiscountry has a. right to demand from them. Isincerely trust that on any future presenta-tion of the mining Estimiates, there will bea fair unumber of members present, and thatwe will not have thle spectacle of acres ofemipty chairs gazing at the speakers.

Mr. CHESSON (Cue) [10.28]: 1 realisethe difficulties which this industry has facedduring the war period on account of the-rise, ranging from 100 to 200 per cent., inthe prices of mining requisites, the threerises in railway freights and the increasedcost of commodities used by the miners.There are simple reasons to be advanced why,at the present time, sufficient skilled labouris not available. It must be that the callingis not made attractive enough from a mone-tary or health point of view, to induce youngmen to engage in it. It is essential that im-proveoxents shall be made by the better ven-tilation of the mines. Provision is made inthe coal mines for not less than 100 cubicfeet of air current passing through the work-ig places in the mine. In the gold mines

it is sufficient that an adequate supply ofair shall be circulated, "adequate" beingdefined as a sufficient current of air to dle-fleet a candle flame from the vertical. Thedifficulty in getting young men into the min-ing industry is to be found in the bad v-en.tilation of our mines. It is provided thatexplosives used in mining shall be tested.But they are not tested under the conditionsin which tile men are working. The testingshould be done in the rises. or dead endswhere the work is carried oil. The mcli areinihaling the gases while underground andthis, as we all know, is most prejudicial totheir health. Only thle other day Dr. Mfit-chell, of tile Wooroloo Sanatorium, statedthat of 1,788 patients who had passedthrough~ his Ihands, 432 were miners, whileinany of the remainder had previously fol-

loede mining. This, of course, is nothinglike the actual number of miners strickendown by phthisis. When I was secretary tothe iners' union in Day Dawn, practicallyevery mian who worked for a few years intite rises or dead ends of the Great Fingalmine c-ontraced plithisis. Men workinguinder the contract system which obtainedti-ere soon becamne wrecks, and other menworking in healthier parts of the mine atnin-it lower n-ages had to levy onl themselvesto keep the stricken mnen anud their depend-nutS. In four years we collected £950 forthe upkeep of phtlhisical men who previouslyhadul een working onl contract at munch higherreuniieration than that of those who eontri-1-uted to thec fund, To my mind the ininstryresi o.hle for thle great mortality amongstminers should maintain the dependants ofthose( men. A royalty should be imposed onlevery ,.l45of gold won, and thle fund shouldlx' dievote-1 to the relief of phithisical minersni~ t-.heir dep~endaints. We onl the Murc'hisonhave adlvocatedl that for many years, hblt

nothing has come of it. Much has beetheard of assistance to prospectors, At thepresent time very few men ale out prospect-ing. A few years ago £50 would equip acouple of men and maintain them in the fieldfor stix uioaths. To-day £100 is of no use to-.a prospecting party, owing to the high costof stores and equipment. Greater assistanceshould be given to prospectors opening up ashow, If the Government would advance onlassays, it would be a means of opening up,many new fields. I give every credit to thedepartment for the work done in my districtini the provision of water supplies. We haverhad no difficulty with Mr. O'Brien, who hasdone everything possible to provide wateroutback. Some attention should be given tothe frequent evasion of manning conditions-onl mining leases. Whenever a new showis.discovered, parties in miotor-ears get out andtake up all the available land, with no inten-tion of observing the manning conditions.Locking up the country in this way, theseamen prevent development by legitimate pros-p-ctors. The inspector of mines ought tovisit such fields ait least monthly and enforcethe manning conditions. The leader of theOpposition referred to the copper proposi-tions beyond Peak Hill. I have lea~rnt atfirst hland that the men out there couldi nothan~dle anlything that would not assay upto 25 per cent. It cost £8 to bring it in tohlceekatharra by camel team, after whichthere was 600 miles railage to Fremantle,where extra wharfage handling had to be-paid for, since most of the stuff went toPort Kembls. for treatment. All under2-i per cent. was left on the spot.The, Government should certainly estab-lish an up-to-date smnelter for the treat-wient of our metalliferous ores. I rea-lise that a lot of our inining problemssuch as the treatment of rfratory ores,'will have to be solved by tlhe metallurgicalchemnists. One of the biggest mining pro-positions in this State cannot be handled onaccount of the antimony in the ore, and pro-gress u-ill only be possible when the metal-lurgical chemists discover means to oer-come this difficulty.

Mr. GRIFFIlTJ{S (York) [10.401.: 1 havelistened with a good deal of interest to tilescathing indictment of members on the crosis-benches by the member for FPorrest ('Mr.O 'Loghlen).

'Mr, Thomspon - Thuat was only a littlepleasantry.

MNr. GRTFITES: I' would inform the,ujeumber for Forrest that I7 istened to thc-Minister for M1ines, the leader of tlhe Oppo-sition, the member for (Cue, tiite member for.Niount Magnet, the member for Leo-noh i-

Ilo,,. P. Collier: Yeu arc a good listener.The CHIAIRMNAN: The- hon. member mustt

,l:5Cuq9 tile Estimates.Mr. GRWPFflTS: I wouild 4unst like to

mention that I have listened to sevenspeechevs on mining andl to only two onagriculture, so I think T can claim to have-

1044

[11 Ovtronn, 1920]01

given the subject of mining very f-air at-tention. There is one branch of miningwhich is of contsiderable interest to me,namely, that relating to the deposits ofalunite. I do not know whether any mem.,tier has made reference to this.

Mfr. Thomson: You have listened to sevenspeeches on mining aitd have not heard thleiefem en-es, to al unite!

Mr. GRIPFITIIS: The report on this sob-jiet is most unsatisfactory. After what theMinister for Mines t old us last year, Ibounght that something would have bcdn

dlone to reachI finality and prove whetherthese deposits were of any value or not.The (Gover-nment Analyst (M1r. M.lan) in hisreport states that it had bees, plauned toearly out a series of field trials to test thislot-al product, but unfortunately supplieswere not forthcoming for the purpose olthese I rinkg It snns that somiethilng isradically wrong. There is a dispute be-tween the chenmists as to the solubility wzfile nlunite contents, and now we are in-

-formed that the chemists could not get sup.plies of the stuff in order to carry out tltstests. I hope that something will be doneto definitely decide whether or not thesedleposits are worth working.

Mr. MUNSIE (Hannans) [10.43]: Thereare just one or twvo matters which I wishto bring under the notice of the Minister,and I hope that he will he able to give maesome information regarding them when hereplies to the debate. I congratulate theworkmen 's inspectors on the good workthey have done to (late. I would again im-press upon the Mfinister the necessity fortreating the workmen's inspectors as theGovernment inspectors are treated in thematter of passes. During the last ISmonths there have been three fairly promi-inent mining developments in Western Aus-tralia, namely, at Hambtoa Plains, St. Ives,and Mt. Monger. I believe that six or sevenof the Hampton Plains mines will be workentfor a considerable number of years; the out-look is certainly favourable I trust thatthe Minister will keep the inspectors up tothe mark in thke matter of seeing that theconditions regarding employees are not per-mitted to drift as they were in the ease otthe Golden -Mile. It is in the early stagesof a field that there is an opportunity forthis to be done. If the inspectors are keptalive to their responsibilities, they will seethat conditions do not get so bad as theywere on the older goldfields of this State.Some little time ago I believe that the Gov-ernment entered into negotiations with theLakeside Wood Companies for running awood line through the Hampton Plains gold-fields areas. Under the concession grantedto the wood companlies, I understand that theGovernment have the right to fix thefreights and passenger fares to be chargedby the wood companies. I would like the-Minister to informa us whether this is so-and what charges the companies are per-

inutted to make. Everything flint c-an besaid in the interests of the mining industryhas been said, and 1 hope the Minister willtake unote of the many suggestions which, ifgiven effect to, will prove of immense bene-fit to the industry.

The -MINISTER FOR MINES (lion. J_Scaddan-Albaly-in reply) [10.47] : '.%ostof the points which have been raised by thllvarious members require some attention bytile Minles lDepartment. I make it a prac-tice to eal II ijol u'* clerk to go through the''Iar~d'' report of the speeches delivereilonl the mining Estimates and to make a ntoteoif each point raised so that inquiries mightIx' maide. I propose to follow that practiceonl this occasion. One of the matters onelhickl I fed it necessary to speak at this.111etti e is the stateminen t ninadie by the tocem-her for Greenoughi (MAr. Mtale) wvith regardto the boring for coal. It is thle first intirna-tioi I have had that there was any feelingof discontent or disiatisfaction among thepeople regarding those boring operations. Ihave not hearvd a single complaint from, anlysource. If there have beens nay comlpblnts.they have not come to m koweg. Wehja'e bored 500 feet without any success and1 have received a recoinidation Iroin the(Govern~ment Geologist that the geologicaloutlook is such that no further boring op~era-tions should be carried on.

Mr. Nlaley: Who suggested thatIThe MINISTER FOR %MINES: Tlhe Gov-

ernnment Geologist. I am now placed in thleposition of having to decide whether we shallignore the recommendation of the (lern.mieat Geologist or proceed with boring opera-tions somewhere else.

Mr. Troy: Where is this?The MINISTER FOR MINES: On thle

Irwin River.Mr. Troy: There is coal there.The MIENISTER FOR MI11NES: yes, ire

have bored through one or two shallow seamtsof coal, but they are of no commercial value.So far my intention is to continue boring oitthe plan on which we started. We had threedifferent Bites selected and we started atNo. 1. It is suggested that we should now,continue boring on sites No. 2 and No. S.If I accepted the advice of the GovernmentGeologist, probably we would do no furtherboring there. That does not prevent anyoneelse who has sufficient faith in the possibili-ties of coal beds of sufficient value being dis-covered from boring for them. To suggestthat we are deliberately playing into Thehands of the Midland Railway Company innot giving the district a fair deal is an un-fair reflection on the officers of the depart-ment.

Mr. Troy: How could that help the Mid-land Railway Companyt

The %MXISTER FOR MTNES: I had notthe slightest idea that there was such allimpression abroad until to-night. I still amnot aware that a report was not made as to

1015

1046 [ASSEMBLY.]

thle mnost likely place to put d]on such a bore.I was astonished at thle statement of thelion.. mnember, and will have inquiries nuede.

Mr. Maley: I wanted the explanation.lionl. P. Collier-: I hope the -- iniuster will

go thoroughly into the muatte,.The MINISTER, FOR 'MINES: My pre-

sent inclination is to continue the boring asfar as we promised to go. We have spentso much money to begin with, and I thinkwe ought to carry out the scheme to its comi-pletion. The matter, however, requires sonmeconsideration. I feel disposed to go on withthe programme rather than take the risk ofhaving it said that because our first effortgave no indication we had missed an oppor-tunity of discovering coal of commercialvalue.

Hon. P. Collier: WAhat is tile depth of thebore?

Thle MINISTER FOR MINES: It is over500 feet.

.H~on, P. Collier: I thought the intentionwas. to go to sliD feet.

The MINISTER FOR MINES: The 'UnderSecretary and the State 'Mining Engineersaw me yesterday and told me that, in theopinion of the Glovernment Geologist,the geological strata and indications in tilebore were opposed to the possibility of thediscovery of coal at a greater depth.

'Mr. Maley: I understand that boring wasoriginally started with the intention of bor-ing down to 800 feet.

The 'MINISTER FOR MINES: If a cer-tain strata is struck at 500 feet, which isnafat-ourable to the discovery of coal at agreater depth, it naturally upsets the pre-vdons ideas of the officer's concerned. Thematter, as I have said, requires consideration.I had not intended making this much publicjnst now, hut the lion. member 'a remarkswere unfair to the department and Y wasvompelled to make this statement. Two pointswvere raised by the member for Innans inconnection with the mining conditions atHampton Plains. On each occasion that Ihave visited Kalgoorlie I have spoken to theinspector there with regard to the conditionsuprevailing at the new finds. He says he hasnot lost sight of the necessity for compellingthe companies in the early stages to do thatwhivih is essential to their work at a greaterdepth. I have had ito complaint that he hasnoit been doing this.

Mr. Munsie. He should compel companiesto see that there are two exits.

Thle MNINSTER FOR MITNES: Hie iskeepingL that in mind as the companies areproceedinig with, their work. With regardto thle wood line, the matter has been broughtunder my notice two or three times with aview to some arrangement being made. If theG'overnment were to ask the wood line corn-PSIIY to do a certain thing I suppose that-ompaliny would expect not to answer until ithad received some consideration. I have there-fore refrained fromn putting forward any pro-position, feeling sure that the company wouldcome forward with one. Only to-day a re-

presentative of thle coumpany submitted to ruleaI request for a permit to enable it to ciietIlt, With the line they are constructing toHampton Plains, with a view to cothimitiginto thme bush, and to work untder an old lpcr-imit. I am considering the question anti theconditions tinder which the operations will liecarried onI. One of the conditions is that thecompany shall carry the commodities thataire required at rates to be fixed by the Unov-ernor in Council.

Mr. Munsie: How about passengers?The 'MINIfSTER FOR MKINES: C do tlot

think the company has proper aceounno-tion for passengers. it may be, however,that we canl arrange foi this as well. Untilsuich time as the Government are satisfiedthat they can construct a standard line to-onnlect with the rest of their systeml theyought not to prevent facilities of this kindbeing mnade available to Hampton Plains,and St. Ives if necessary, and at as cheapl arate as9 possible. It is possible thnit arrange-nents may be made for providing some light

coaching facilities. We might bring into iFesonc light coaches that are hardly fit for ourordinary service.

Mfr. Munsie: They run a coach ait ver-tai times onl the Kurrawang woodline.

Thme MINISTER FOR MIrNES: I do notknow whether that is done on the Lakesidewoodline. I have promised the company thatI would obtain the decision of Cabinet onlTuesday next. 1 do not think there will heany difficulty in arriving at a satisfactoryarrangement.

Mr. 'Munsid: 1 have been asked whetheirthe company will be able to charge whatfares they like.

Thme MINISTER FOR MINES: _N o. Thepermit in the first instance is only issued toenable the comipany to take firewood over theline, but we can make conditions to providethat they shall carry any other commodityat rates fixed by the Governoir in Council, andissue a conditional permit in accordance there-with.

General debate concluded; items dliscussedas follows: -

[teii-Inspectors of Mines, £0,354..Mr. LT'TEY: Why has the numliber of

Inspectors been reduced by one? Could notrailway con cessions be given to workmen'sinspectors in the same way that they aregiven to the permanent inspectors?

The 'MINISTER FOR MINES: There isone inspector less owing to the resignation ofInspector Wilson. We went into the ques-tion, and without doing any injury at all wefound we could effect the saving of one manl.

Mr. Mounsie: Do the eight inspectorq in-clude the workmen's inspectors?

The MINISTER FO)R MINES: -No. Iant afraid that to give to workmen's inajec-tors the railway concessions given to Govern-mient inspectors would create an innovationthat Would be undesirable. There are hun-d1reds of semi-governmemit men who would allwant the saume thing.

1046

[119 OCTOBER, 1920.1 11

Mr, Mlunsie: Are they being paid whollyby the Goveranent?

The MINISTER FOR MIXES: In someeases they are.

'Mr. Mfunsie: Then they should have thesamet privileges as the Government officers.

The 'MINISTER FOR MLX12ES: I am'prepared to consider the matter.

Ron. F. COLLIER: I am glad to hearthe Minister say be will consider the re-quest. There are only four or fivc inspectorsconcerned, so that no considerable amount isinvolved. They have as much claim to con-siuleration as have the tramway employees,who, though not in fact connected with theRailway Department, are granted a free passover the railway system when on their an-nual leave.

Mr. TROY: Some time ago applicationwas made-I believe it has been made re-peatedly-for the Murchison workmen's in-Spector to visit Baddera, Narra Tarra, andthe other lead mines in the Northamptondistrict, lie certainly should do so, and Ihope the matter will reive the Minister'sattention without further delay. Contraryto the forecasts of those who argued againstthe system of workmen's inspectors, theseinspectors have worked very satisfactorilywith the departmental inspectors of mines.

Item, Clerks, goldfields staff, £1,301:Mfr. CHESSON: I desire to call the Mini-

ister's attention to a young man, 19 years ofage, who holds a clerkship in a mining regis-trar 'a office, who supports a widowed mother,and who receives a salary of £1 per week. Ican give the Minister the young man's name.IS any provision being made to pay a livingwage in this case?

'Mr. Troy - I know the case, and it is areal Scandal. The young man is over 19years of age.

'Mr. CHESSON:. The duties he performsare important.

The MINISTER FOR MINTES: I willinquire into the case.

Vote put ani passed.Progress reported.

- House adjourned at 11.5 pi.

1egtI~ativoe council,Tuesday, 19th October, 7120,

Question:" Police sen-ice In war time ...Motion: 3luniclpalities Act, to amend ..Bills: Stallions Registration, 3s........

Preventin of Cruelty to Animls, 3aLRoads Closure, 0om. .. ..Public Service Appeal Board, IR.. ...O~rmners, 2R. .. .. .. ..Building Societies, Corn., Recoin......

page1047104710521052105210571057L059

The PRESIDENT took the Chair at 4.30p.ii., anl read prayers.

QUESTION-POLICE SERVICES INWAR TIME.

Hon. F. A. IBAGLIN asked the Ministerfor Education: 1, What was the amountpaid by the Federal Government to theWestern Australian Government for policeservices during the period of the wart 2,What amounts, if any, were paid as a bonusto senior officers of the Police Department?

The MINISTER FOR EDUCATION re-plied: 1, £8,075 17s. it]- 2, £2125 was dis-tributed by the Defence Department to twoinspectors, two detective sergeants, and onedetective constable.

MOT[ON-MUNICIPALlTIES ACT,TO AMEND.

Rating on 'Unimproved Value.

Hon. J. E. DODD: (South) [4.34]:move-

That in the opinion of this HouseMunicipalities Act, 1906, shouldamended SO as to allowV Of rating oncapital uninmproved v-alue of land.

thlebe

tile

f have to make a few remarks iii vindicationof this motion and of the Bill which I' intro-duced. An expression of opinion by thisChiamber is advisable upon the motion inview of time almost universal demand for theprinciple which it embodies, and I am en-couraged to believe that perhaps if the mo-tion is carried here, the Government may heinduced to. bring in the ncessary anmending,Bill. Last session, in connction with theParliamentary Allowances Bill, the subjectwas first brought before another place byway of notion, and after the Governmenthad( seen that the Bill was likely tolhe carried they introduced the neces-.Snrv, measure to give e ffect to thmewishes of members. I think Somethinglike that mnight be dlone in connection witht1,is matter, because I believe there is a. gen-eral wish on the part of members that muni-cipalities and road boards should have theoptional power of rating on the unimprovedValtie of land. 1 may also point out thatonly last session a comprehensive measuredealing with rating was carriedl through Par-

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