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Tuesday, Apr. 17, 2012 by Laura Peters | 75 comments | Email this story

Almost two dozen speakers signed up to address the school board over their rash anddevastating decision[s] in budget cuts.

Benefits, pay raises, cutting foreign language in elementary schools (FLES) and eliminatingsome math resource teachers were hot topics during an April 17 public input session of theLoudoun County School Boards work session.

Tom Sieren, a teacher of 31 years currently at Loudoun County High School was happy withthe $1,500 bonus instead of nothing, but didnt like the fact that it wouldnt be calculated inhis future salary or be applied to his retirement.

One of these days I will retire, but according to my wife, my retirement just got pushedfurther down the road, Sieren said. Why are the employees at the top of the scale beingtreated differently from the rest of the employees? There are answers to this question andnone of them are good.

Bill Foxs (Leesburg) compensation plan, which passed April 16, would offer a $1,500increase for all scales with the top step treated as a one-time bonus. It would also giveclassified positions a 50 cent per hour raise with a cost savings of $805,000 in fiscal 2013.

Employees that have been around long enough to be at the top of the pay scale often have themost education, experience and service. We must be doing something right. We werent fired

after our first year, Sieren added. Weve been here through thick and thin and havecontributed to the excellence of Loudoun County Public Schools, and we continue to do so.

We deserve to be treated with parity and not excluded from the team.

Pam Smith, a teacher at Park View High School with 30 years experience, said she feltdisrespected and undervalued by a pay increase she wont receive.

We arent the dead wood in your schools. We arent the college grads who said, Show methe money. We arent the people who left to neighboring counties for better pay and benefits,she said. We are the employees that have showed commitment. And tonight when yourheads hit the pillows we hope you think of us in your future budgets.

Lisa Lopez ask the board to readdress the FLES program cut.

You made a mistake with limited knowledge to cut the FLES program, Lopez said holdingback tears. I am not emotional because it affects me. I am a substitute. But, I look over at mycolleagues and there are 35 of them, theyre not being re-staffed theyre gone. They dont havea job and they probably will not get a job at a secondary school.

Larissa Pelusa, a math resource teacher, resident and parent in Loudoun County, s aid whenshe started training to become a math resource teacher she learned more about math thanever before. The math resource teaching position has been put on the chopping block with thenew budget cuts and will be reintegrated into classrooms throughout schools.

I was challenged in my thinking and I came to understand that theres a better way toinstruct students in mathematics than the way I had been teaching in all of those years. I justdidnt know any better, Pelusa explained. I was inspired, I was intellectually rejuvenatedand I wa s eager to make those changes. The students in my classroom went from dreadingmath to clapping and cheering when it was time to learn.

What started out as a small spark had become a burning flame, she added.

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The board will hold another work session April 23 at 6:30 p.m. in the School AdministrationOffice in Ashburn.

Comments

Sun, Apr 29 at 06:10 PM by Jim Bowie | Report this comment

What cuts?

Mon, Apr 23 at 06:37 PM by stovepipe12x | Report this comment

First off. Get rid of the dead meat, that likes to pad their time sheet! Ratherthan penalize the rest of the truthful drivers that have enjoyed their job? Nowit has all come down to Parents, and their brats calling the shots? Don,t cometo any in service meeting and blow smoke up our as$ and expect the drivers tolay down!! Time machine? What is up with that?? Something that useless thatis an excuse for not giving out raises to any one? But a way of cutting over timeto drivers that are putting in the time? Get rid of the dead meat attendants,that

seem to know more than any driver. I think the drugs can make peoplehallucinate! and seem to remember a simple route after being on it for weeks?Got me hanging? Hope the folks at the Big house have a good driving record,and an CDL? I doubt it, cuz someone their thinks 30mph is speeding in a40mph zone. When will the county put the clamps one the stop sign runner?Running running free all over the county? The fines alone would bringrevenue? But. Know one seems to care about the concerned motorist that doesnot mind calling in if a bus is,, going too slow,,, or too fast? But does anyonecall if a bus was cut off??? does anyone call if a car ran the stop lights? No! cuztheir brat was not on that bus! Just let all the parents take then to, and fromschool? Oh yeah. Don,t forget. The folks from the Big house are going to help?I,am about ready to jump out the basement window!

Mon, Apr 23 at 04:31 PM by IHLC | Report this comment

@Grass is greenernice post, and you are correct. Many LCPS teachers arehere because theyre married, and those who are young and single, get a few

years of experience, and then they leave.

LCPS teachers work very hard, and get treated like crap. When they get raises,there is always some sort of an offsetting cost, and that is pathetic. ManyLCPS teachers want to do well, they teach their hearts out, and do whats bestfor their classrooms, but with things such as PBIS, DRAs, CLARITY, and theother bandwagons, it makes it h ard.

If you know of some of those places you mentioned, please list them, becausewith the current level of morale, I have a hunch that many will be lookingelsewhere.

Mon, Apr 23 at 03:38 AM by East Bus | Report this comment

@West Bus The ATTENDANTS on SPED busses are NOT drug and/oralcohol tested.. but should be! Only bus DRIVERS are.

Mon, Apr 23 at 01:25 AM by Mary | Report this comment

With some of the comments in this forum, I just think in why dont we shutdown the school system and see what happens? Many of you would look greathome schooling your kids. I am also impressed to see so many firefighters arestepping on each her other hoses.

Sun, Apr 22 at 08:28 AM by doorman | Report this comment

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Dont let the door hit you.

Sat, Apr 21 at 09:57 PM by Grass is greener...elsewhere | Report this comment

I honestly dont know why a teacher would stay in this area. Maybe they havea spouse who makes big bucks as a Beltway Bandit?

Where I grew up in the NE pays more than Loudoun for a new teacher and justas much on the high end. Im guessing the benefits are at least as good asLoudoun. I know where I am from pays 100% of a masters degree for newteachers. Not sure if Loudoun does. Of course I think NY state requires a

teacher to have a masters after so many years. I doubt Virginia does. Evenstill, the silver lining? A 3-4 bedroom single-family home can be purchasedfor $200k. You might even have a yard that can accomodate a pool for thatprice.

Personally, Id be out of here in a heartbeat if I was single or the main breadwinner relying on a LCPS salary. The same money is available elsewherewith a much lower cost of living.

Sat, Apr 21 at 07:38 AM by Dr.kildare | Report this comment

How much do the teachers contribute to their health care costs?

Sat, Apr 21 at 07:32 AM by West Bus | Report this comment

How does that work Fred? The majority of LCPS Employees live in Loudounand pay the same taxes as you do.

Sat, Apr 21 at 07:07 AM by Fred Morrison | Report this comment

Once again, we hear the argument that government (and thus the teachersemployed by it) should never have to endure smaller budgets, even when timesare tough, yet, at the same time, we the people who pay them through ourtaxes, a re forced to live with less money and higher costs for food,transportation, etc., in that same economic situation.

Why is it that the private sector employees are expected to take pay cuts (nevermind a pay increase, one time or permanent) while public sector employees

play the entitlement card with zero regard for what that means to the peoplewho pay their sala ries?

Sat, Apr 21 at 05:44 AM by Tim | Report this comment

Thoroughly Exasperated ... nice thought that the school employees feel bad forcounty employees but that does not put gas in the cars, pay for the increase infood cost, health care cost etc. Not to mention that with ha ve to pay the tax, itactually is a DECREASE.

Sat, Apr 21 at 03:42 AM by IHLC | Report this comment

@CmonThere are a few principals who need to go as well. Only the fact that

are well connected, has saved their sorry butts!@tiredofthisThanks, and I am sure that you are among the minority ofparents who take the time to treat teachers with the respect that they deserve.Many parents in this disgusting county are horrible. They keep their kidshome to shop of take them on trips, dont even bother to work with theirchildren, send nasty e-mails, back-stab, talk trash, gossip, and the list goeson. What going to happen, and it already is, is that LC teachers are fed up andare looking elsewhere. Heck, if I worked in Fairfax, and heard about the lowmorale and discontent in LCPS, Id be promoting Fairfax to attract the LCteachers.

Finally, teaching is no longer a profession that has job security. Also, muchof the waste and fat are at the admin building level, so that is wherenumerous cuts should be made! Dig deep and audit, SB!


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Fri, Apr 20 at 07:59 PM by C'mon | Report this comment

@Realistic RepublicanIm not trying to say Im superior just that I make instruction my priority andIm professional.

I have a principal who turns a blind eye to bad teachers. Heknows who is slacking but nothing is done. Im part of a strong departmentand I try to lead by example. I rarely interact with all my dept members, notsure how Im supposed to save teachers in otherdepartments.

Fri, Apr 20 at 11:55 AM by Sick of the roller coaster | Report this comment

@Flex TeacherFirst off, let me just say I am happy you were able to findanother job within LCPS. However, as a taxpaying parent with children in

both elementary and high schools, I w ould prefer to see the dollars/resourcesfor language instruction redirected to the high school level. I know you preferto work with the little kids, but as a member of the public sector, you need togo where the gaps are and where you can provide the most benefit. That placeis high school. My high school son is already in Spanish 4, getting straight

As, and participated in FLES, however, isnt nearly as proficient in thelanguage as I was in my 4th year of Spanish 25 years ago (and no, I didnthave FLES). I am pro-teacher, but come on, being pro-teacher doesnt mean Icondone wasting money. We need to be smart here.

Fri, Apr 20 at 06:43 AM by tiredofthis | Report this comment

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2o3W_VKACiw/TwXgRt5BXDI/AAAAAAAAJyI/Ol4rwLb60Ig/s1600/aaa6.jpg

This pretty much sums it up. There was a day when teachers were treated withthe utmost respect. Of course those were the days before the generation ofparents who feel entitled, false self esteem boosts for kids, everyone gets atrophy, etc.@IHLC, you are so right. Not sure what Fairfax is like now, but I know duringthe time I was there many years ago, parents were nothing like they are here.Teachers are treated as they are parents slaves. Parents expect teachers to beavailable at all hours, they want immediate answ ers from email, they thinkthey kids are the only students in the class (as well as the brightest andtalented kid in the world). I am a parent of 4 LCPS students and I have heardmany times my peers saying things like we pay their salary so I am going todemand XYZ (whatever the issue is at hand). They threaten law suits, etc. Ithas gotten out of hand and something needs to change. We need to givecontrol in the classroom back to the teachers and out of the hands of parents.No one respects a pushover and that is what teachers have become (at no faultof their own, their hands a re tied).

Fri, Apr 20 at 05:25 AM by muddywaters | Report this comment

Maybe you are the one who does not get it. Is the teacher who has been onstaff 25 years teaching the same subject material worth a 25 or 30k a yearsalary benefit over a newer teacher? Take the special ed bleeding heart crap tothe dump. If you cant do the job move on to McDonalds or Burger king where

it sounds like a perfect match for you now if you will excuse me I have moundsof paperwork and a bottle of wine to get through.

Fri, Apr 20 at 05:08 AM by IHLC | Report this comment

...but I want to be treated like the highly educated and experiencedprofessional that I am. Thats all a ny of us want. Im guessing this is trueeven of those of you who are opposed to education sending.

Nice thought, well said, and it sums it all up. First, thanks to the posters whosupport and appreciate your teachers. As for those who bash, you are patheticand sad!

I bet that you are probably those same parents who treat teachers like trash at


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your respective schools. You go behind the teachers backs and cry to adminwhen something goes w rongwhy? Because you are too cowardly to face theteacher in person to discuss the problem. You probably also enable yourchildren, or you walk past teachers your children may have at functions andignore them, not to even say hello. Bet you pull your children out of school inthe middle of the day to go shopping, too.

Luckily, there are numerous parents in Loudoun who know how to treat theirteachers. I have never seen a county where many people treat teachers withdisdainwonder how Fairfax parents treat and appreciate their teachers?Probably much better.

Thu, Apr 19 at 09:23 PM by Thoroughly Exasperated | Report this comment

@Tim - I ha ve spoken to many educators who feel it is unconscionable thatcounty employees are not getting a raise.

@Charles and Frustration - Thank you for your measured and thoughtfulremarks.

@those of you who are so clearly unhappy about spending on education - Imso sorry that you feel that this is not a valuable investment in our communityand the future.

@those who have had experiences with subpar teachers - admittedly there aresome out there, but they are a tiny portion of a highly qualified and dedicatedstaff.

@the person who said teachers should just stop working at 7.5 hours becauseif we dont we are being taken advantage of and if we cant we must beinefficient - hahah ahah ahahaha ha. I encourage you to speak to specialeducation and ELL teachers about the volumes of paperwork and recordkeeping that is legally required. Then, please be thankful that they areteaching during school hours instead of ignoring the children to dopaperwork. Please look at how a teachers planning time is used. Mostteachers I know use this time to do one-on-one or small group work withstudents needing remediation or make up work or testing for students who

were absent or working in teams to create common assess ments anddisaggregate data so that instruction can be targeted to meet the needs of eachstudent.

@whoever said go to the private sector - I came from the military and the

private sector to this job because I love it. I have no problem being a publicservant, but I want to be treated like the highly educated and experiencedprofessional that I am. Thats all a ny of us want. Im guessing this is trueeven of those of you who are opposed to education sending.

Thu, Apr 19 at 08:51 PM by Elle McGee | Report this comment

Loudoun County- describe how LCPS will function if 1/2 the admin staff is cut.

Thu, Apr 19 at 08:36 PM by Loudoun County | Report this comment

@FLES Teacher

Guess what my degree is in? Foreign languages! No joke.

And I think the FLES program needs to go, along with half the admin staff atLCPS.


muddywaters, I forgot to mention that you are advocating discriminatorypractices towards older workers. You also clearly dont know anything aboutteaching.

Clearly, if you dont get it, you dont get it. And you dont get it.

Thu, Apr 19 at 06:07 PM by muddywatters | Report this comment


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So they are experienced does that make a better algebra teacher? Its the samesubject matter and whether you like a teachers bed side manner so to speak

you are there to learn. maturity means what that the teacher is older, slowerand set in their ways. Yeah that experience and moving on to admin has beena real boon to the education process. Dont see the value you are talking about!

Thu, Apr 19 at 06:05 PM by West Bus | Report this comment

Oh, almost forgotI actually have 52 students on my elementary run. If youdivide my 15k salary by 185 days and 52 kids I am paid $1.55 per day perchildor $81.00 a day. Is that all your childrens safety is worth to you?

Without benefits to offset the low wage there wont be any bus driversthatswhy the majority of us are here Elle is correct, we do pay for our insurance,and those with families receive very small pay checks.

Thu, Apr 19 at 05:57 PM by West Bus | Report this comment

East Bus, Im confused about your thoughts on drug and alcohol testing. AllLCPS Employees submit to random testing. Ive been called twice this year, itall depends on the lottery system the county uses. You get a call at 0:dark:30,and must report by 11:00 am/after your am run.

Thu, Apr 19 at 05:43 PM by East Bus | Report this comment

@West Bus>> 4. Dont continue to install costly time card computers on allbuses, its just one more thing to breakand the test study proved that mostdrivers are actually shorting themselves time rather than cheating!

I agree 100%!! Instead of was ting 4-6 million dollars on a time card systemthat is (in all actuality, but no one admits to) to stop timesheet cheats,

wouldnt it be cheaper to simply cull out the cheaters and reprimand them?The electronic bus time card system is about as stupid and wasteful as the 10thou$and dollar per bus seatbelt installation! The electronic-time-card-gadget-in-the busses money would have been better spent drug and alcoholtesting the attendants on the special needs busses.


muddywaters, the answer to your first question is yes, a teacher with 15 yearsexperience teaching algebra (or whatever) WILL be a better teacher thansomeone just out of college.

What you are suggesting - apparently to have a school system where there areno experienced employees (so they will cost less money) is not going to workon many levels.

Experience DOES make a difference, maturity DOES make a difference. Thereis much value in having experienced employees. As people gain experience,they get paid more. That is just kind of fundamental to the whole employmentpicture.

Next, who will choose to go into a career where there is no possibility forcareer growth? That is just a ridiculous concept.

In addition, some here want to get rid of the administrators because they cost

more money (because they are more experienced, have more education, andmore responsibilities), so teaching/education would have even lessopportunity for career growth if your suggestions are followed.

And finally, there is so much misinformation about the employee benefits. Iam not sure the School Board members know the finer points. But to begin

with, none of the employees are getting free health care benefits. They alsopay more just like the rest of us to put their dependents on their plans.

The part time bus drivers who receive benefits pay MORE for their benefitsbecause of the difference in hours. They are not receiving free benefits forworking part time. Also, the info I received from the LCPS information officeis that the part time employees are charged for their insurance based on theirminimum hours. SO, they may be employed for a minimum of 6 hours/day,

but they may in fact work more hours because they take assignments such asfield trips, sports/activity bus routes, and so on. But they are paying a higher


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rate for their insurance even though they may put in far more hours.

The teachers, bus drivers and any other employee speaking or writing abouttheir own situation are trying to illustrate real life affects of the pay and

benefits. I think thats valuable. Maybe some dont like it because thisremoves the abstract quality of thinking about numbers only. But the SchoolBoard has to consider these affects to their employees. In the long run or evenshort term, they will see their employees leave if they are not valued andcompensated competitively.

So, those of you who are complaining, why dont you let us know what youmake, your benefits, bonuses, etc so that the rest of us can pick YOU apart and

let you know youre not worth what YOU get. Because, one way of another,whether through taxes, paying for goods or services, we a re ALL paying eachothers salaries and benefits.

Thu, Apr 19 at 04:11 PM by FLES teacher | Report this comment

@Loudoun County- Wow. I can hardly believe how ridiculous your commentsare. Do you really think so low of teachers that you dont think they deservecompetitive or at least adequate pay? Have you ever actually visited a school orspoken with a teacher? Or better yet, did you attend public schools? The hard

work of the teachers you had growing up contributed to making you successfulenough in your life that you apparently feel as though you are above all thosemeasly teachers. Shame on you! You should really go do some more research

before contributing to a public forum.

Yes, I am a current FLES teacher. I can tell you that I have the most funteaching job available right now. I get to have fun with students and teachthem new things that are engaging every day. I am sick and frustrated fromthis school board decision. I have since applied for and obtained a new job(still LCPS) because I am not going to fight this fight every year. I can tell youall that most of the FLES teachers have a license for K-12 and the argumentsfor keeping the program has nothing to do with anyones inability to go teachsomething else in the county (except those VIF teachers who leave theirhomes and families for 3-5 years to come share their culture with ourchildren). Our problem is that this program (while having some problems,admittedly) is important to the cognitive development of children and helps toprepare them to live and work in our global society. We are fighting for aquality education for all. Please, visit a FLES classroom before you attempt toopinionated about the effectiveness and need for this program. My door isalways open, just like my 49 colleagues in this county.

Thu, Apr 19 at 03:53 PM by muddywaters | Report this comment

Actually is a teacher really worth the money if they have been teaching algebrafor 15 years or would a new employee do the same job for less money just as

well? Agreed on the 17 hour a week benefit, just think if there is a spouse andkids how much does that cost the LCPS?


as taxpayers do have to pay them a competitive wage and benefits for whatthey do

No, we dont. We have to pay them what the tax base can afford. How theychoose to spend their money on where they live, cars they drive, etc. is their

business.

17-hr a week bus drivers with full time benefits. Ridiculous.


There are 1,552 LCPS employees costing over $100, 000/year. That groupcosts us over $152M/year.

Id like to see over half, but not all, of them leave.

Thu, Apr 19 at 11:22 AM by Elle McGee | Report this comment


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that should be experienced LCPS and county employees. in my last post.


muddywaters - youre misinformed regarding the employment situation ofLCPS employees.

Loudoun County- great attitude. Lets show all the experienced employees thedoor if they wont shut up. After all - who are they to speak up. Oh thatsright, they have the right to free speech.I as a taxpayer dont want to see experienced LCPS and county leave. The

schools and the county are employers and the reality is that we as taxpayersdo have to pay them a competitive wage and benefits for what they do.

Thu, Apr 19 at 09:59 AM by Loudoun County | Report this comment

Hopefully, both Boards will continue with their budget cuts in the next coupleof years where they can make more systemic changes.

If you are a county employee and dont like this, then I suggest you look fornew employement this year instead of next.

Thu, Apr 19 at 09:32 AM by West Bus | Report this comment

There are alot of good ideas out there, we as employees are labeled as troublemakers if we express them.

1. Stop allowing so many fleet vehicles to go home with employees.2. Make bus routes longer, eliminating half full buses. Of course this willnever work because the parents will complain.3. Eliminate transportation to the students preferred school. There are toomany special exceptions made. If the parents move mid year let the kids go tothe new schoollike it was when we were kids.4. Dont continue to install costly time card computers on all buses, its justone more thing to breakand the test study proved that most drivers areactually shorting themselves time rather than cheating!5. Im still trying to figure out why field trips to carve pumpkins for elementaryschool kids, and canoeing trips for high school students are that important

Thu, Apr 19 at 08:54 AM by muddywaters | Report this comment

Because you cant find a job in the private sector should not be a concern. %weeks paid is a little different then 9 weeks wouldnt you say. Is s omeoneforceing you to work over if so report them and let the school board take careof them. Maybe you are just not a good enough teacher to get it done in thetime alloted. Looks like class size is normal to me(WABE).

Thu, Apr 19 at 08:30 AM by leesburger | Report this comment

Stop the teacher and school-system bashing. Our children are nearing theend of the K-12 cycle and we could not have been more pleased with theirdedicated teachers, AP course offerings, etc! We have one of the best publicschool systems in the nation, perhaps because we similarly rank high with

the large percentage of adults with college and graduate degrees. Education isa priority here. If you dont agree with this priority and also dont want to payfor it, then vote with your feet and move to the backwaters only a 2-3 hourdrive from Loudoun County.

Thu, Apr 19 at 07:01 AM by frustrated 2 | Report this comment

@frustratedIM sick of you.


Realis tic Republican: Love your comments. The teacher bashing/anti LCPScomments on this particular thread are mostly so illogical a nd uninformedthat I could only come up with impolite responses to the posters themselves.


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You and Frustrated and a few others were able to express what I wanted tosay! Thank you for posting and being a REALISTIC republican. : )


Frustration: WELL SAID! THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS! I havebeen reading the various negative comments here and after other articles andit is obvious that the posters have no clue what they are commenting on. It ISfrustrating because others who dont know any better pick up bits and piecesof the misinformation and restate it over and over. And I wonder just howmuch weight the school board members give the uninformed opinions they

receive.Please keep speaking up == your points are right on target!

Thu, Apr 19 at 06:02 AM by Realistic Republican | Report this comment

Sorry, macho talk on these cites. I was a little bit fired up.

Thu, Apr 19 at 06:00 AM by Realistic Republican | Report this comment

@echyone

You are everything that is wrong with this county, and quite frankly thiscountry right now. You and your kind take pot shots in forums but dont have

the temerity to stand up behind the same dias that people like Pam Smith do,and defend a side. Instead, you ridicule people who are willing to fight forwhat they believe is right with no attempt at offering up an alternativesolution. You and the others who just complain on here but do nothing to fixanything disgust me. As far as I know , it was an open forum on Tuesday, did

you show up? There is a lot of macho talk on these sights regarding the cutsthat should be made but nobody that I have seen has had the nerve to stand infront of the School Board and voice these opinions. This s ideline ridicule andabsence of real action/offering effective alternatives is what is bringing thiscountry down. And youre probably teaching it to your kids as well. Eithergrow a pair and speak out for your beliefs or stay at home as the dinner tablephilosopher you dont help anybody by sarcastic (and il logical) ramblings.

@Cmon.

As a teacher far above the level of your peers, what ha ve you done to raise their

level? Just like your friend echyone, you seem to like to denegrate thosearound you to show how amazing you are. Excellent. Loudoun County ishappy to have a phenomenal teacher, but would be more happy if you couldpass tha t on to others around you. Or are you just as ha ppy to complain fromthe sideline like echyone? Be a proud professional and proud American takeaction and fix a broken system instead of highlighting where it is wrong andoffering no solutions. Dont go down the same bitter path that some of theseposters have traveled. Trust me, your peers and this community will respect

you more from fixing the situation than they ever will with you joining theminority of illog ical, teacher-bashing curmudgeons on h ere.

@FrustrationAmen. As much as I talk, I dont even have anything to add tothat. Well stated points that those with any semblance of rationality shouldunderstand.

Thu, Apr 19 at 05:01 AM by West Bus | Report this comment

Thank you frustration, Im still making the same 15k I made 4 years ago, andit doesnt go as far as it used to. I commute from out of state and things aretough. I recently had to consider going to the doctor because I wasnt sure Ihad the co-pay. I shop at the Hospice Store for clothing to wear to work, andhave visited my local food bank on occasion.

Believe it or not bus drivers do more than drive your kids to school. We nursethem when theyre sick, teach cooperation, cons ideration, and teamwork,congratulate them for their accomplishments, and cheer them up when theyresad. We do all this with our backs to them in 16 tons of moving steel.

I dont know how many drivers we will loose this summer due to these cuts,but I can tell you its not easy finding people to drive school buses. We are


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background checked, drug tested..and submit to random drug and alcoholtesting, and work crazy h ours for little pay. I know many of us are activelylooking for other jobsnot because we want to leave, but because we need toleave. The part time jobs many of us have to supplement our incomes justarent enough anymore.

Wed, Apr 18 at 08:32 PM by Frustration | Report this comment

The frustration I feel with the current budget process could fill a book, a largebook with very small type! I am frustrated with:

Board members who while I believe are well intended are truly ignorant of theprocess, but so arrogant that they dismiss, or do not as k for advice on theramifications of a decision, or just disregard advice of the experts there toprovide guidance.

A complete disregard for logical, rational, a nd prudent process whenattempting to reform fundamental parts of basic compensation, benefits,instructional philosophy. These are not things you trust one fellow boardmember with little or no experience to guide you through. Any rational person

would know and understand these need in depth understanding, completeanalysis of ramifications, and expert input. Not knee jerk half baked hurrieddecisions!

While I truly support our teachers, and also feel that we sh ould protect ourclass rooms, It takes much more than teachers to make a school systemmove. I have heard so very, very little about support staff, impacts of budgetdecisions on them and their families. Most are working for less real wagesthan they earned 4 years ago and are do so very much more. And for eachteacher there are a multitude of support persons allowing him or her to teach!Many doing thankless jobs, for very low compensation, almost norecognition. In speaking of many of them they feel truly devalued by thecurrent dialog and process.

I am sick of people comparing LCPS employees to private industry. I amunaware of any private industry where every year you must be ReContracted. And I agree with some other posters, most employees work morehours than they are getting compensated for. As far as summer vacation goes,due to the poor compensation, many use their VACATION time to work toearn enough to get by for the rest of the year, or go to school in a attempt to

better their position.

I am sick of people talking about teaching children as if its a simple process.When in reality most teachers I know spend a enormous amount of timeparenting, why because they are not getting it at home, and the teacher,counselor, principle, dean, cannot allow it to go by because they truly careabout your children. When a sch ool nurse quietly supply a 1st grader with agently used coat because she just noticed that she had none. When a teacherspends her own money to provide school supplies to a student who cannotafford them. When a cafeteria worker makes sure a student is eating right,

just because they know they are not getting it at home.

I am frustrated with a community that is the richest in the nation, who onaverage had a household increase of over $9000.00 in the last year that isunwill ing to fund a school budget. The difference is reported to be less tha n67.00 per tax bill. It less than a average tank of gas, less than the coffee oncea week.

If you are unwilling to understand the system, how it actually works, what theactual needs are. Then I would encourage you to just shut up,

Wed, Apr 18 at 07:47 PM by Tired of the Negativity | Report this comment

Holding a grudge against a teacher in your past Muddywaters? Manyprofessions get all that and more.My spouse has only worked at hiscompany for 6 years, and true he only gets 5 weeks vacationbut waithis

vacation is PAID and he ca n take it whenever he wants. He also makes40,000 more than I do and Ive been a teacher for 18 years. And Im the one

with the masters. Health benefits are not fully paid. They are nicer than myhusbands, but Im the one with the crappy salary. He works about 50 hours a

week and never on weekends. I work over 60 and always on weekends. Andyou are rightmy contract is 7.5 hours a day which means I work 20+ hours


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for the county for free. Yes, people in other jobs work overtime and all teachersarent complainingthey just have to constantly correct inaccuracies and liesabout their profession.

Wed, Apr 18 at 05:39 PM by Muddywaters | Report this comment

: How many jobs in the private sector offer: job security, minimum startingpay of $44,000 annually rising to over $100,00 guranteed, 9 weeks vacation,fully paid familiy health benfits, government guaranted retirement benefits

before age 65 and a contractually guaranteed 7.5 h our workday?A: Zero. Just thought someone may have missed this!

Wed, Apr 18 at 05:28 PM by Muddywaters | Report this comment

Whoa The Truth how long is your nose now? Either that or you arebreaking a trust of confidentialty. So wh ich is it? Makes you one of thescumbaggies does it not?

Wed, Apr 18 at 05:25 PM by Charles | Report this comment

Out of the 23 schools in the state of Virginia who have reached the status of aNational School to Watch, 11 of them are from Loudoun County.This county works hard to give YOUR children a bright future. Maybe thisdoesnt phase many of you because you are rich enough to buy them a bright

future.One thing I dont see much complaining about is the level of excellence thiscounty brings to the table every single day of the school year and even (thismay come as a surprise) the work that is done when school is not in session.

When I read the negative comments, I a m reminded of the phrase, You getwhat you pay for. Pretty soon, all of the best teachers will be looking for acounty with appropriate pay (not necessarily more ...) and a community thatappreciates nationally recognized work.

Wed, Apr 18 at 04:41 PM by ThinkAboutTheFuture | Report this comment

This county is suppose to be one of the wealthiest or highest income countiesin the country. Parents here expect this school system to be one of the best,and they should be able to expect that. But a successful school system comes

with a price tag. The system is growing, but the budget cant keep up.Dont chase away the talented teachers by hating on them for wanting a raise.

As a first year teacher, I can barely pay my own rent on this sa lary. Thats nota complaint, just a fact. If this county cannot give me what I need, then I willleave for another school system. This system raised me, so the last thing I

want to do is leave.

The question is - whats happens 5 years from now when all the good teachershave gone? If you cant keep the teachers you have now, what makes you think

you other teachers will be jumping up & down for the job?

We are teaching classes of 30+ kids in classrooms designed to hold less than20 bodies. We are getting rid of desks to make it work. We are cutting fundsfrom our clubs. Our textbooks are more than outdated and we are trying toprepare kids for this 21st century world while fighting over outdated laptops.

Im telling you that kids are slipping through the cracks because we areoperating in such extreme circumstances already.

I love what I do. I wouldnt still be here if I didnt live every minute with thekids. But when this system starts losing all its recognition & prestige, justremember that you get what you pay for.

Wed, Apr 18 at 03:58 PM by Sick of the roller coaster | Report this comment

@CmonWell, let me just say you not only deserve a raise, but also a round ofapplause. I am a parent of both high school and elementary school studentsand am well aware of what youve been dealing with at the Spanish highschool levelhopelessly overcrowded classes, limited resources, and tougherstandards. Thank you for the work you do. Some of us do recognize that not allteachers were created equal and shouldnt be treated as such.


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Wed, Apr 18 at 03:01 PM by C'mon | Report this comment

@LoCo wonders

The you teachers at the high school where I teach are far from impressive, so Idont think droves of people are attracted to those stats you listed. You forgot tolist the not so attractive parts of teaching, but oh, whats this? Youve nevertaught. You have no clue then.

@Sick

My numbers are accurate. I teach high school Spanish in LoCo. And you areright, the 16 American teachers either dont have the content knowledge or theability to handle teens. The previous foreign language specialist was a FLESteacher and listed her Spanish skills as novice.

Wed, Apr 18 at 02:03 PM by West Bus | Report this comment

Im still trying to figure out how on earth to spend my extra $2.50 perday.assuming it all happens since Richmond dropped the ball on K-12funding. Oops.

Wed, Apr 18 at 01:50 PM by muddywaters | Report this comment

I thought school employment records were confidential so Truth how do youknow Bill Fox g ot fired. You dont! My current motivation is that you are aliar.

Wed, Apr 18 at 11:59 AM by tiredofidiots3 | Report this comment

@tiredofthis and your case is for the teachers not to work more even thoughtheyre getting a raise. Which is what I was making fun of. Youre a hoot!

Wed, Apr 18 at 11:44 AM by tiredofthis | Report this comment

no, but obviously writing is NOT your strong point. However, I will not getinto personal slings. I dont need to do that in order to state my case.

Wed, Apr 18 at 11:31 AM by tiredofidiots2 | Report this comment

@tiredofthis, comprehension isnt your strong point? If you re-read my post, Istated test the software I wrote for the air traffic control safety system,therefore I write the software that communicates with the air traffic controlsystem, you know the one that guides you into and out of airports.. I wasmaking fun of your post. Do I need to clarify more so you can understand.


@tiredofidiots, you make no sense. I pray that you are not really an air trafficcontroller or we are all in trouble. Try to stay focused on the discussion athand.

Wed, Apr 18 at 10:50 AM by Is this the new Enquirer???? | Report this comment

Funny headline, stating the public s peaks out when only 24 spoke out andmost were teachers doesnt seem like much of Loudoun county spoke out.,

Whats next, pictures of alien babies? Gossip pages?

Wed, Apr 18 at 10:44 AM by Daniel Davies | Report this comment

Our School Board is doing a great job, I am grateful to them for making sometough choices. LCPS spending is still increasing faster than the rate ofinflation and student population, right? So they are actually increasingspending? Maybe some of these whining LCPS employees will find out howgood they have it when their positions get cut and they have to find jobs in the


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real world.

Wed, Apr 18 at 10:43 AM by tiredofidiots | Report this comment

@tiredofthis, yeah I agree, last time I run all those extra tests/checks againstmy software for the air traffic control safety. let the planes fail/crash. Weshould all have this mentality of just do enough and nothing more. I get paidfor 40 so why work 80 hours/week. And why stop at that. People without autoinsurance, lose license and go to jail. People without medical insurance, payup front or go somewhere else. And if were at war, lets just get it over withand drop a nuke on em. Who really give a shi$!

Wed, Apr 18 at 10:34 AM by only makes sense | Report this comment

My take away from this story is that most of the speakers were teachers fromLoudoun county, and expressed their displeasure. how come none of them

voice their concerns to Dr Hatrick. He created this bloated LCPS budget. Idont have a problem giving all teachers raises, however, some fat along the

way has to be cut out.

Wed, Apr 18 at 10:28 AM by Attaboy | Report this comment

Lets get rid of a few more programs so we can give the cry-baby teachersraises, wait lets take money from the state and give it to them. Work to the rule

then please go home. Snivel at home so you dont pollute the children withyour attitudes.


I am not a teacher but I urge all teachers in this County to show all theseungrateful people how valuable you are. Work to the rule. Do not spend oneextra minute of your time for the students. Do not spend one penny of yourmoney on classroom supplies. When a parent emails or ca lls during your offtime, do not answer them. Do not spend one minute of your time worryingabout finding different ways to reach each student. Go to school, teach thematerial, give tests, grade tests, and leave. No more babying the children ofthe people who seem to have such disdain for your profession.

Wed, Apr 18 at 09:30 AM by Sick of the roller coaster | Report this comment

There are many good comments here:

@[email protected] are right that all we hear is more bitchingand fewer solutions. Im beginning to think this whole public hearing processneeds to be overhauled, as it wastes valuable time and money. To the LCPSemployees reading thisas an LCPS insider, you have more insight to the truesources of waste than the taxpaying public, so SPEAK UP, TELL US YOURTHOUGHTS. Dont come to the table with a complaint unless you can alsooffer a viable solution (and please dont let that solution be raise the taxrate).

Jenny...and THANK YOU for doing exactly what I asked in my lastcomment. Teachers should be offered a forum where they can provide feedback

on how to make the school system more productive and efficient without fearof retaliation.

@Really? - I agree, the lack of intelligence is truly the scariest part of thiswhole process. That is why I stopped attending meetings. This roller coasteris going nowhere fast and in circles.

@CmonI cannot comment to the accuracy of what you are saying, but I doknow there are a shortage of language teachers at the high school level, so Imperplexed at all of the fuss regarding the elmination of FLES. I have to believethat these particular teachers are not qualified to work at the high school leveland/or prefer to work with the little kids on remedial language skil ls than

with the sas sy high school attitudes on a dvanced language skills.

Wed, Apr 18 at 08:42 AM by Tim | Report this comment


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Dont know w hat you are complaining about ... g ot more than the countyemployees who serve all residents of the county not just the residents withchildren. We got a decrease :) and the promise to contract out services to savemore money on the countyside which is what 25% of the budget, and to forceus to fund our own retirement health care program. Take the raise and smile

Wed, Apr 18 at 06:42 AM by echyone | Report this comment

Who said this, We arent the college grads who said, Show me the money?

Pam Smith a teacher while asking for more money. What a joke!!

Wed, Apr 18 at 05:22 AM by Cal Zone | Report this comment

What if the government never took the Constitution seriously? What if thesame generationin some cases the same human beingsthat wrote in theFirst Amendment, Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom ofspeech, a lso enacted the Alien and Sedition Acts, which made it a crime tocriticize the government? What if the feds dont regard the Constitution as theSupreme Law of the Land?

What if the government regards the Constitution as merely a guideline to bereferred to from time to time, or a myth to be foisted upon the voters, but not asa historic delegation of power that lawfully limits the federal government?

What if Congress knows that most of what it regulates puts it outside theconfines of the Constitution, but it does whatever it can get away with? Whatif the feds dont think that the Constitution was written to keep them off thepeoples backs?

What if theres no substantial difference between the two major politicalparties? What if the same political mentality that gave us the Patriot Act, withits federal agent-written search warrants that permit unconstitutional spyingon us, also gave us ObamaCare, with its mandate to buy health insurance,even if we dont want or need it? What if both political parties love power morethan freedom? What if both parties have used the Commerce Clause in theConstitution to stretch the power of the federal government far beyond itsconstitutionally ordained boundaries a nd well beyond the plain meaning of

words?

What if both parties love war because the public is more docile during wa r andpermits higher taxes and more federal theft of freedom from individuals and

power from the states? What if none of these recent wars has made us freer orsafer, but just poorer?

What if Congress bribed the states with cas h in return for their enactinglegislation that Congress likes, but cannot lawfully enact? What if Congress

went to all states in the union and offered them cash to repave their interstatehighw ays, if the states only lowered their speed limits? What if the states tookthat deal? What if the Supreme Court approved this bribery and then Congressdid it again and again? What if this bribery were a way for Congress to getaround the few constitutional limitations that Congress acknowledges?

What if Congress believes that it can spend tax dollars on a nything it pleasesand tie any strings it wants to that spending? What if Congress uses its taxingand spending power to regulate anything it wa nts to control, whetherauthorized by the Constitution or not? What if anyone other than members of

Congress offered state legislatures cash in return for favorable legislation?What if Congress wrote laws that let it break la ws that ordinary people wouldbe prosecuted for breaking?

What if the Declaration of Independence says that the government derives itspowers from the consent of the governed? What if the government claims toderive powers from some other source that it will notbecause it cannotname? What if we never gave the government the power to spy on us, to print

worthless cash , to kill in our names, to force us to buy health ins urance or towaste our money by telling us that exercise is good and sugar is bad?

What if w e never gave the government the power to bribe the poor with welfareor the middle class with tax breaks or the rich with bailouts or the states withcash? What if we dont consent to what has become of the government? Whatif the Constitution has been tacitly amended by the consent of both politicalparties, whereby instead of ratifying amendments, all three branches of


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government merely look the other way when the government violates theConstitution? What if the president cannot constitutionally bomb whatevercountry he wants? What if the Congress cannot constitutionally exempt itsmembers from the laws that govern the rest of us? What if the courts cannotconstitutionally invent a righ t to kill babies in the womb?

What if the federal g overnment is out of control, no matter which partycontrols it? What if there is only harmony on Capitol Hill when government isgrowing and personal liberty is shrinking? What if the presidential race thisfall will not be between good and evil, between right and left, between freemarkets and central planning or even between constitutional government andBig Government but only about how much bigger Big Government should get?

What if enough is enough? What do we do about it? What if its too late?

Wed, Apr 18 at 03:49 AM by Loudoun County | Report this comment

When I hear all this complaining over minor cuts, I think FIRE THEM ALLand let the Govt employees apply to get their jobs back.

What a bunch of whiners.

Wed, Apr 18 at 03:35 AM by Jenny | Report this comment

I am a teacher in LCPS. The math resource teachers are a joke. They donothing to benefit the classroom teacher. That was the only good cut the

school board has or will make.

Tue, Apr 17 at 11:06 PM by LoCo Wonders | Report this comment

Q: How many jobs in the private sector offer: job security, minimum startingpay of $44,000 annually rising to over $100,00 guranteed, 9 weeks vacation,full familiy health benfits, government guaranted retirement benefits beforeage 65 and a contractually guaranteed 7.5 hour workday?

A: Zero

Tue, Apr 17 at 08:56 PM by C'mon | Report this comment

19 of the 35 FLES teachers who will lose jobs are foreign teachers who were

only to be here three years and then go back to their country. No one should becrying about non-citizens losing their jobs in the United States.

Tue, Apr 17 at 08:54 PM by really? | Report this comment

@the truth.do tell us more. And I am really getting tired of the comeback Ifyou dont like it move. Please come up with something more intelligent. Istill say the board needs to cut out the company car perk- there are way toomany school district cars and vans.

Tue, Apr 17 at 08:51 PM by dcw | Report this comment

I heard something to that fact that he did not make it through the first year. If

that is true, then maybe he should resign. I dont see how he can be objective.I also read that he accepted the County health insurance when elected, yet hemoans about how much the insurance plan cost the county. Isnt that a littlehypocritical? If he is so concerned about saving the tax payers money, declinethe insurance and go back to the insurance he had before he was a school

board. Every little bit helps.

Tue, Apr 17 at 08:39 PM by The Truth | Report this comment

Folks need to know Bill Fox was fired from his position as a school teacher inLoudoun County. Ill leave it up to individuals to determine what his currentmotivation is.

Tue, Apr 17 at 08:27 PM by tiredofthis | Report this comment


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Bill Fox does not value the experienced teachers, or for that matter anyteacher. Why is the top not treated the same as the others? Because they makemore money? Sounds like liberal socialism to me. Punish the top for beingsuccessful and valuable. I would love to know their reasoning behind thisdecision.

Tue, Apr 17 at 08:04 PM by [email protected] | Report this comment

Bitch and moan, bitch and moan. Didntt hear any solutions as to where tocut the budget just I want more money. Bitch and moan, if you dont like itgo to another county!

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