online forum

Mariel Amez – Rosario – Argentina

Literature in English III – 2008

Teacher Education Programme – Final Year

Example of an online class forum

Hyperfiction Published by Amez, Mariel on 12/09/2008 Message:

Hyperfiction Try some of the links below. Make sure you look for links in all parts of the screen, including images. In some cases there is audio available as well. You can choose whether to read the article "Hyperfiction" by Claudia Ferradas Moi before or after this experience. Then write a paragraph summarising your impressions, and publish it here before October 3rd. Feel free to comment on the comments as well. If you want to look for other examples and share them, it would be most welcome. Hyperfiction links: http://www.ryman-novel.com/ a novel for the Internet about London Underground in seven cars and a crash http://www.learnenglish.org.uk/crazyworld/ crazy world news (from Learn English, British Council) http://eastgate.com/ReadingRoom/WhatFits/WhatFits.htm What Fits by Adrienne Eisen http://www.eastgate.com/LastingImage/Welcome.html Lasting Image by Carolyn Guyer and Michael Joyce http://members.fortunecity.com/phharper/index-frames.htm five|standing (a hypertextual portal to the diverse lives of five linked individuals) http://www.hyperfiction.net/ http://www.thetherapist.com/index.html http://www.eastgate.com/Circa/ Circa by Edward Falco http://scribble.com/world3/meme1/Mola/index.html Mola. Collaborative web project by Carolyn Guyer, Michael Joyce, Nancy Lin, Suze Schweitzer, and Nigel Kerr. 1994-95 Check http://www.eastgate.com/ReadingRoom.html for more examples

RE:Hyperfiction Answered by Traverso, María on 02/10/2008

Message:

Hello girls and Fer! I had a look at three of these hyperfiction links: ryman-novel.com, hyperfiction.net and thetherapist.com. I must say that at first I was quite lost. Then, I started clicking and gradually understanding how hyperfiction works - even though I had read the article on it before accessing the sites. I completely agree with Moi when she says that the reader takes an active part in the





process of reading, thus, empowering them in the creation of meaning for thet text. Besides, as she also points out, hyperfiction is an excellent tool to achieve more "democracy" in a clasroom - since each student would have read a different "version" ( multiple texts.) Of the three sites I visited the one which I liked most was the ryman-novel about the London underground. It tells you that while you're reading you're going to be like God in that you'll know what the "characters" which are travelling in this train feel and think. That caught my attention and, so, I went on reading. One thing I found rather "frustrating" is the fact that many times you go back to the same lexia. I felt as if I had to start everything again and never reach and end or conclusion. As regards two of the questions posed in the article by Moi, while I was surfing these sites I thought about the real freedom we - the readers- have in order to chose where to go. I believe there is not much in fact- obviously much more than in a traditional book! But we can only chose between a predetermined number of links. Moreover, I don't think hyperfiction is really a democratic form. Still today, not everybody has access to a computer or the internet and, among those who have it, there are many who lack the "know-how." I personally believe that hyperfiction is another way of widening the gap between literate and non-literate people (literate in its new and wider sense) As you may have noticed, I'm always against technology ha.. Hope to read your comments soon. María

RE:Hyperfiction Answered by Amez, Mariel on 03/10/2008

Message:

Really thorough contribution, Maria! You have covered quite a number of issues. I think some of your classmates may choose to express their point of view about your comments, too. As regards this sense of frustration you mention, can you find any point of contact with the features of Postmodernism? Read you soon, Mariel

RE:Hyperfiction Answered by Ramírez, Melina on 03/10/2008

Message:

Hello everyone!! I visited all the sites published in the forum and to tell the truth I was completely lost. I was so engaged that I wanted to visit all the links and click in all parts of the screen but I realized that it will be a never ending story. So, I decided to focus my attention on only three links: http://www.learnenglish.org.uk/crazyworld/. http://www.hyperfiction.net/ http://www.thetherapist.com/index.html I forgot to say that before visiting the sites I read the notes on Hyperfiction by Claudia Ferradas Moi. I had a vague idea of what hyperfiction was but I wanted to check if what I knew was correct. When I visited http://www.thetherapist.com/index.html, which is one of my favourite links it was amazing to see that I had the control to build up my own story, I could jump from one link to another according to my interests. In view of this, I totally agree with what Moi says, that the reader takes an active part in the reading process and as George Meroid points out it is the reader who decides where to go and what to read. After exploring these links I read the questions at the back of Moi's article and I started reflecting upon one of them that reads: Will screens ever replace books?. Unluckily, I think that the answer is yes. Books are being replaced by computers, information is





available in the web just at a click of a button and as Maria said Internet offers the reader the opportunity to choose where to go and what to read, hyperfiction is a clear example. I really enjoyed visiting these links and I came to the conclusion that I didnt know that hyperfiction worked in this way

RE:Hyperfiction Answered by Centioni, Laura on 03/10/2008

Message:

Hello everybody! I've visited most of the links we have but I focused mostly on those which caught my attention. One of them was hyperfiction.net and the other was ryman-novel.com. As Maria said, at the beginning I was a bit at a loss, so I decided to read the notes and then go back to the sites. Of course after reading the notes, I approached the sites with the different view. In spite of this, I still find this question of hyperfiction a bit disorganized. It's not that I can't see the benefits its has: as it is quoted in Moi's article, the reader helps the author shape the story and the reader never reads the same novel the same way twice and I believe that hyperfiction is a very interesting way of looking at things and of reading and interpreting them but in spite of this, as I said before, I cannot find an organization in the way things are arranged and I am left with a feeling of no finality. That is to say, I think that when we read a book, or any text, in spite of the different interpretations, we all go towards the same direction. By contrast, with hyperfiction we chose which direction to take, and even though I don't see it as something bad, I still don't like it much because of what I said before. See you, Laura

RE:Hyperfiction Answered by Ferranti, María Eugenia on 03/10/2008

Message:

Hello everybody! I agree with Maria since sometimes I am also a bit against technology. It is difficult for me to read long texts from the screen of the computer. Although nowadays I get used to the screen, I really dont like it very much. It was very complicated at the beginning to understand how hyperfiction works, even though before doing the forum, the first thing I did was reading the notes by Claudia Ferrads Moi and then I entered the sites. Nevertheless, I enjoyed this experience as the sites I accessed (www.rymen-novel.com and www.learnenglish.org.uk/crazyworld) were very enriching. I found them very interesting. I also agree with Maria when she stated that it is as if you never reach a conclusion. Even though the sites were well-developed, sometimes I lost the main ideas of the story. For example while I was reading (ryman-novel), I entered into so many different links that I felt a bit lost. I had to start reading again from the beginning of the story and I felt I never reached and end. Besides, I was left with a feeling of incompleteness. Perhaps I had this difficulty because I am used to reading books in a linear sequence (I mean, without having to read from different places). In addition, I dont like the way in which George Merlod defined HYPERFICTION since the reader never read the same story the same way. Although I love to find different interpretations to the same story, I like to read it in a linear way and then try to analyze it. On the other hand, I completely agree with Claudia Ferrads Moi when she stated that hypertext can be considered a threat to the power of the book and he publishing industry. I hope hyperfiction continue to develop but without taking over books, which are in my opinion highly valuable tools. See you in class Mariu





File Attachment: lit-hyperfiction.doc (25.5 kb.)

RE:Hyperfiction Answered by Tournier, María Eugenia on 03/10/2008

Message:

Hello! Firstly, I read the notes on hyperfiction by Claudia Ferradas Moi. Then, as the girls mentioned, at the beginning I was at a lost. After visiting all the sites Mariel gave us and clicking in every part of the screen, I found out that, in my opinion, the most interesting sites concerning hyperfiction were: http://www.eastgate.com/LastingImage/Welcome.html http://www.thetherapist.com/index.html As regards the first one, for me it was interesting because I could find different categories such as hypertext, tool, fiction, non-fiction, poetry, books, etc. This was guided for me to search for information. The site was very well organized! As regards the second site, for me it was amazing. Not only the picture of the man on the left but also the boxes in which by clicking you could enter randomly to different stories. Whats more, it was important to give the reader different options to take a look at the contents. To tell you the truth, at the beginning I thought it was going to be a bit boring for me to access the different sites because I prefer to do "active" exercises and not just sit in front of the computer and click in different places, but I really enjoyed it. It was very interesting not only to read the notes but also to visit the sites.


Message:

Loss seems to be the keyword so far... As regards "the reader never reads the same story the same way", how far do you think this is also true of books? Be careful with www.eastgate.com. The "text" is what you see on the screen with a full link, such as http://eastgate.com/ReadingRoom/WhatFits/WhatFits.htm . The inks on top ( hypertext, tool, fiction, non-fiction, poetry, books, which Ma Eugenia T. mentions) correspond to the site, which includes many different aspects, among them, examples of hyperfiction. A question: Melina & Ma Eugenia F. were you actually able to see www.learnenglish.org.uk/crazyworld? I can't.

RE:Hyperfiction Answered by Chiesa, Laura on 03/10/2008

Message:

Hello everyone! What a difficult task! (I wanted to avoid the use of "I was at a loss") The notes proved to be challenging but clear, I really liked them a lot. As the girls, I first read the notes by Ferradas Moi, just in case. As María mentioned above, the site "ryman-novel" about London underground is a clear example that the reader is the one who puts the different components of a story in





order and in that s/he makes sense of what s/he is reading. It is a very interesting way of approaching information. As regards Mariel's question, I couldn't agree more with "the reader never reads the same story the same way" When I read this, I remembered "The Turn of the Screw", for example. There we have a very clear example of how a text leads to different interpretations and, according to the viewpoint we choose, we can say that if we take Borges's idea of the "forking paths" the text is different, is a new text, for every reader. The same is true of books that we read as children and we re-read as adolescents and grown ups. Don't you have the feeling that you're reading a new book? By reading Claudia Ferradas Moi, I also related the theory with books I used to read as a child, called "Elige tu propia aventura" These books may be rather silly right now, but I think they follow the basic idea behind links, for example. And when I entered thetherapist.com, I saw that that site works in a very similar way, giving the reader choices as regards what to read next. I have never entered this site and I really liked it. As regards the questions in Moi's text, the one that stuck in my mind was "Will screens ever replace books?" I hope not! As Maria Eugenia F said, it is not the same to read a book than to read from the screen. Reading from the PC makes me feel terribly exhausted and it gives me a headache. Reading a book, on the other hand, is a very relaxing experience which helps me in various ways, among them, it helps me to fall asleep (no kidding, it's great!). I think that both kinds of reading can be considered proper reading but I prefer reading books. I don't know if these answers are ok, I hope they are! Have a nice weekend, everyone. See you on Monday. Yours, Laura

RE:Hyperfiction Answered by Ramírez, Melina on 03/10/2008

Message:

Yes, I was able to see the link. It says the following: "·The page you have asked for may have moved. Find it on our new site Our site has moved to: www.britishcouncil.org/learnenglish

RE:Hyperfiction Answered by Roche, Cristina on 03/10/2008

Message:

It's impossible not to be lost!!!! So many links... it's never ending. Well, in the notes of Hyperfiction it is mentioned that the reader is the one who decides where to go and when to put an end to the story. I've vistited four sites http://www.ryman-novel.com/ , http://www.learnenglish.org.uk/crazyworld/, http://eastgate.com/ReadingRoom/WhatFits/WhatFits.htm and http://www.thetherapist.com/index.html. In the first one, I got lost and I coulnd't follow the story, and on top, the author did not reeveal the end of it! I was rather frsutrated at the end (answering one of the questions





from the notes on "Hyperfiction") ... The site I liked most is the second one, it's very interesting for teachers of English since there are many useful tools and resources for teaching Though, as C. F. Moi said, "hyperfiction is a temptation to explore", I completely agree with the girls who said that books should not be replaced!


Message:

Melina and Cristina (and everyone else): What you find when it says Our site has moved to:www.britishcouncil.org/learnenglish is a great site for teachers (I thought you knew it), but the hyperfiction Crazy World is not available there (or anywhere). That was a story about a spaceship, and some aliens, and stuff of the sort. Best, M.

RE:Hyperfiction Answered by Mateu, Sabrina on 04/10/2008

Message:

Hello everyone! After reading the notes, I've visited www.ryman-novel.com , www.thetherapist.com ,www.eastgate.com and I was able to see quite clearly what Hyperfiction consist of. Firstly, I would like to concentrate on what Moi said about the active role of readers of Hyperfiction. We, as readers, are empowered to create meaning for the texts we read. There are many forked ways and readers have the freedom to choose which way they want to go. An example of this is I the ryman-novel about the underground train. There you get to choose to see the thoughts and feelings of the different characters in the order you want. This sounds as a great experience, however, Hyperficition can be a frustrating experience at times. The downside of hyperfiction is that readers may end up going back to the same lexia, and feel as if they were inside a labyrinth without being able to find our way out. Secondly, as regards the idea that "the reader never reads the same story the same way", I definitely agree with Laura Ch in that it is also true for the reading of books. The second time you read a book will show you things you haven't seen the firs time you read it. This could be a consequence of the passing of time. Between the first and second readings we may have learnt new things, we may have new tools to approach the text or we may have experienced different things that lead us to see the story with different eyes. Thirdly, I would like to comment on the democratic aspect of hyperfiction. As Moi said, the access to computer hardware and the necessary know-how is the privilege of a few, so in view of this situation I don't think word democratic is suitable to characterise hyperfiction. Well,that's it for now... Hope you have a nice weekend. See you on Monday. S

RE: Hyperfiction





Answered by Stefani, Luciana on 04/10/2008

Message:

hello everybody! I've visited some of the sites and and agree with the girls that "loss" is the key word. I've read the notes before visiting the sites but I found it rather disorganised, as Laura Centioni said. I also agree with Moi when she says that the reader takes an active part in the process of reading, thus, empowering them in the creation of meaning for thet text, as Maria pointed out. I consider this an interesting way of reading because we never read a novel the same way twice and it seems as if you never reach the end. as some of the girls, I also find it difficult to read long texts from the screen directly, so it was not an easy task to follow the stories. when I visited the sties I also thought of the questions at the end of the notes. I Think it is true that books will be replaced by computers. information is obtained much quicker and it saves a lot of space (everything can be stored in a memory stick!) . I really enjoyed this experience, I didn't know that hyperficcion worked this way! see you

RE:Hyperfiction Answered by Mosca, Jesica on 04/10/2008

Message:

As everybody said, at the begining I was completely lost because I didn't have a clear idea of what HYPERFICTION was and because of so many links. So, I read the notes by Moi and then I visited the sites. The one which I liked the most was http://www.hyperfiction.net/ because there I easily found its definition and its purpose. I agree with Moi when she says that the readers' task is to give meaning to the text and that the same reader may determine different meanings each time he/she reads the text. And this is the purpose of hyperfiction: to offer multiple readings and multiple texts. As regards hypertext, I found it difficult to visit all the "blocks" linked because there were multiple never-ending links which made me get lost. So, as Laura and Luciana stated, hyperfiction is a bit disorganized because it leads to different interpretations. However, I think that this may make a reading easy to understand since you have different views to take into account to get a sense of finality when you finish reading. Besides, the reading may be more challenging for students in a classroom. MOreover, the use of technology provides the reader with many opportunities to get multiple meanings, which is also more appealing than a book (but it's not my case because I don't like technology so much) To conclude, I would say that this non-linear reading helps to put and end to a story which may be improved by the use of technology

RE: Hyperfiction Answered by Giménez, Ma. Soledad on 05/10/2008

Message:

First I gave a quick look at all the pages. Then, I read the notes. Finally, I went back to what has become my "entertainment page" which is: http://www.thetherapist.com/index.html.I'm having a great time coming and going, investigating, going back to what I've read before. It's fantastic how the text creates doubts and makes you continue researching. However it is impossible not to get lost and overwhelmed. Anyway, I've related my experience to Theodor Nelson's definition of hypertex when he says that" it is a non-sequential writing - text that branches and allows choices to the reader... a series of text chunks connected by links which offer the reader different pathways".





George Melrod also makes a point by saying that "you help the author shape the story, and ... you never read the same story the same way twice", I believe that these two writers are the ones who better summarize my experience. I hope you've all enjoyed it the same way I did. CU

RE:Hyperfiction Answered by Ateca, Fernando on 05/10/2008

Message:

I agree with the girls when they say that screens shouldnt replace books. Reading short texts on the computer sometimes saves time, but when it comes to longer texts, the experience would result exhausting as Laura said. Just think on how many times we change positions and move our heads when reading a novel. And we always adapt the position of the book to the way we are sitting. This becomes impossible with a computer, even with a notebook. To read on the computer, we have to sit straight all the time and we cant move the screen to suit our position if we get tired of sitting straight. Hyperfiction is quite an interesting world I think. I found the sites very exciting, but I fail to see how we can use it in the classroom. The only way I could think to use it its as extensive reading, but to exploit it as we do with novels would become rather difficult. As a text may have so many readings, getting to an agreement would be extremely difficult and there would be as many interpretations as students in the class. It would be a mess! Another thing I didnt like about hyperficiton has to do with one of the questions at the end of the notes: up to what extent is the reader free to choose where s/he is going? I think that the reader is not trully free to choose what to do in the story. The author generally offers us a limited number of possibilities to choose and each choice we make leads us to where the author wants. The author is the one who decides the consequences of our decisions. I do not feel that the reader is really contributing anything to the shaping of the text, but just exploring the number of possibilities the writer could think of. I hope you dont think Im against technology because its not true (I cant imagine the world without my computer!), but I do not think hyperficition would be of much use in the classroom. Perhaps, attending a seminar on hypertexts would be illuminating for me and would show me their usefulness. See you!

RE:Hyperfiction Answered by Ateca, Fernando on 05/10/2008

Message:

sorry! I dont know what's going on, but all the apostrophes dissapeared!

RE:Hyperfiction Answered by Traverso, María on 05/10/2008

Message:

Hello! It's me again! I just wanted to anwer the question Mariel had asked me some "comments" above: about the point of contact between my sense of frustration and features of





Postmodernism. I think that they may be related in that, in postmodernity, there is no clear order, on the contrary there is chaos, indeterminacy, no unity. All these lead us to feel frustrated and lost as we can never make a coherent, unified "piece" out of anything and, therefore, we find ourselves in a never ending circle. Not being able to achieve "a goal" in whatever we are doing will inevitably lead us to frustration (reading this new form of literature - hyperfiction- is a clear example of this) As regards the question of whether we ever read the same text twice, I agree with Laura when she says we don't read a story the same way and we generally find new meanings or interpretations. However, the actual words are the same - not as in hyperfiction-, what changes is the interpretation we assigned to them according to our new experiences, thoughts, feelings at the moment of reading. I also believe that while some things inside a story may be read in a different way, the general meaning will remain rather "stable" for each reader(it's quite difficult to express my idea here and in a written form....) See u soon, Mari

RE:Hyperfiction Answered by Tornambé, Sandra on 05/10/2008

Message:

Hello everyone! I had a look at some of these links:http://www.ryman- novel.com,www.learnenglish.org.uk/crazyworld/crazyworldnews and www.hyperfiction.net. At first, it seemed quite difficult to understand how hyperfiction works. But after I went back to the notes by Claudia Ferradas Moi, I started clicking and was able to know more about how the process works. I agree with Moi when she says that readers have an active role in hyperfiction. It is a fact, that as readers, we decide where to go throughout the texts which are provided and give meaning to them. The link I enjoyed the most was www.learnenglish.org.uk/.It's a useful tool for teachers of English and very motivating for children to explore new ways of learning. However, I also found it quite frustrating to interpret long texts from the screen, as Fernando and Laura said. Reading for a long period of time from the computer can be stressful! There's nothing better than sitting back on a comfortable sofa reading an interesting book. That's all for now.See you!

RE:Hyperfiction Answered by Kunc, Valeria on 05/10/2008

Message:

Hello everyone! Some days ago, I entered to all the web pages that Mariel suggested to us and I realized that Hyperfiction was not an easy task to deal with so this weekend I decided to do it the other way round. I read Claudia Ferradas Mois notes on Hyperfiction first and it helped me a lot!! Personally speaking, as some of my companions have stated before, I prefer books. A reader becomes so active in these hypertexts that its almost stressful!! As regards the state the reader never reads the story the same way twice is completely true because when you finally reach the end of a story, you go back and see what would happened if you had chosen another alternative as in www.thetheraphist.com . To sum up, I feel that this non linear reading is not for me! See you VALE






Message:

Dear all, I'm sure you have all enjoyed reading other views on this experience. What a pity Flavia could not get round to sharing! Let me confess now that I - a "linear" reader - share the feeling expressed by many that I miss the sense of fulfilment that an "ordinary" narrative provides. I say "ordinary" because it's not only a question of the medium (paper vs screen). Think of Cortazar's Rayuela, or contemporary tendencies in film, all of which exhibit this postmodern tendency towards chaos and incompletion. I'm glad to see that many of you found the experience entertaining. However, as some of you found it difficult to tell a website from "the thing itself" I'm uploading a file in Unit 3 with two examples of what you should have been looking at. Some very interesting issues have been raised: whether we actually re-read anything, or we actually read afresh any text every time we approach it, be it on screen or in print; the future of books; the actual degree of freedom we have, or whether this is just a new, more hidden form of author control. As regards its use in the classroom, bear in mind that the different paths taken may create an info or opinion gap that can be extremely useful to foster speaking or writing, and break with the isolation often associated with computer work. Having said that, also take into account how realistic the reading of hyperfiction may be in our own context. On the other hand, I think that, circumstances permitting, you could even get your sts to write hyperfiction. Precisely the enormous amount of material required calls for collaborative tasks. How about giving them a set of words they have to use in writing a short piece, and then linking all the pieces in rhizomatic fashion to create a larger text? Each group could then link them in various ways... Or a topic, and then they look for words that are repeated? All it takes is a word processor (it can be done in Word, without Internet access), and a little bit of skill which many are likely to have. The task is accomplished. You now have experienced yet a different text type. I would love it, though, if you chose to continue commenting on the topic. See you tomorrow. Best, Mariel

RE:Hyperfiction Answered by Moscarola, Flavia on 06/10/2008

Message:

Sorry for the delay, it was really impossible for me to do this before. I just answer the topic in case you want to read my contribution. Well, first of all, I want to tell you that I had thought that the sites were going to be much easier but they took me a lot of time to understand what they were about. I found





most of them very interesting but difficult. I opened a link and when I closed it I realised I did not have any idea of what I had been reading!! So I decided to take only one, understand it and enjoy it. I chose http://www.thetherapist.com/index.html. This site is great, especially because I love this kind of sites related to mental health. I did not have time to click on every link because it was going to be endless but it was my favourite one. But I must admit that then I started looking for other sites in the web and I found one which was really interesting to me: http://www.well.com/user/jmalloy/mybio.html Relating what I saw to the theory( Hyerfiction by Moi), I agree with Maria and Meli. This site may help see students' personal opinion and ideas to express. Also, it is true that the reader takes an active part in the reading process and as George meroid says, it is the reader who decides where to go and what to read. As regards this question of screens replacing books, my answer is YES. Nowadays, we are looking for the easiest and quickest ways and HYPERFICTION is a clear example of this; you just click on a link and you start the journey, let say.


Message:

Thanks, Flavia, for joining in! The actual hyperfiction text written by Judy Malloy which is available online for free can be found at: http://www.well.com/user/jmalloy/uncleroger/party1.html Good contribution! Best, Mariel