liner notes - aaamc · liner notes a r c h i v e s o ... commercial jingles. in the 1980s he...

A R C H I V E S O F A F R I C A N A M E R I C A N M U S I C A N D C U L T U R E

liner notes

Reclaimingthe Right

to Rock: Black Experiences

in Rock Music

NO. 14 / 2009-2010

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ThisissueofLiner Notesfollowsseveralmonthsofengagementwiththreemajorprojects.FromJanuarythroughAugust2009,theArchives’travelingexhibitRock, Rhythm, & Soul: The Black Roots of Popular MusicattractedlargeaudiencesatCityHall(Bloomington,IN),theCrispusAttucksMuseum(Indianapolis),theBlackCulturalCenteratPurdueUniversity(Lafayette,IN),theEvansvilleAfricanAmericanMuseum(IN),theSanDiegoCountyFair,theIndianapolisBlackExpo,andthePaulW.OgleCulturalandCommunityCenteratIndianaUniversitySoutheast(seestoryinLiner Notes no.13). TheArchiveshostedamajorconference,Reclaiming the Right to Rock: Black Experiences in Rock Music,inNovember2009ontheIndianaUniversityBloomingtoncampus.Thepurposewastodocumentblackexperiencesinrockmusic,toexplorerock’srootsinandrelationshiptoAfricanAmericantraditions,toinitiatearchivalcollections,andtofacilitatescholarlyresearchonthisgenre.Thelivelytwo-dayconferenceandweekofpre-conferenceeventsfeaturedmusicians,critics,andscholarsfromtheEastandWestCoastsaspanelistsandperformers.Thishistoriceventattractedoverone-hundredparticipantsofallagesandethnicitiesfromthroughoutthecountry(seeinsidestory). TheArchives’technicalstaffcompletedtheGRAMMYFoundation®Grantproject,Pioneers of Rhythm & Blues.ThisprojectdigitizedtheinterviewsfromtheMichaelLydoncollectionandmypersonalcollection(seestoryinLiner Notesno.13).Ourstaffcurrentlyiscreatingdigitalpreservationfilesforat-riskmaterialsintheWilliamBarlow(blackradio),MelloneeBurnim(gospel),andPhylGarlandcollections(jazz,classical,andpopularmusic). TheArchives’specialcollectionscontinuetoattractvisitingresearcherstocampus.MichaelMurphy(WayneStateUniversity)conductedresearchforhisdissertationonDetroitblueswomenusingtheNelsonGeorge,KarenShearer,CharlesSykes,andPortiaMaultsbycollections.MemphiswriterPrestonLauterbachexaminedthecollectionsof

MichaelLydonandPortiaMaultsbyforhisforthcomingbookA Hundred Dollars Crooked: The Chitlin’ Circuit and the Road to Rock-N-Roll.ProfessorJ.AndrewFlory(ShenandoahConservatory,Virginia)researchedtheGeorgeandMaultsbycollectionsforhisforthcomingbookI Hear a Symphony: Listening to the Music of Motown.EmilyC.Morry(UniversityofRochester)conductedresearchforherdissertation,“‘ITooSingAmerica’:TheSenseofPlaceinAfricanAmericanMusic,1927-1992,”usingtheNelsonGeorge,KarenShearer,CharlesSykes,MichaelLydon,WilliamBarlow,PortiaMaultsby,SmithsonianBlackRadio,andDaytonFunkcollections. ThestaffoftheAAAMCcontributedtoscholarlyandserviceinitiativesofnationalinstitutionsandorganizationsaswellasthoseatIndianaUniversity.HeadofCollectionsBrendaNelson-StrausswasappointeddirectoroftheLibraryofCongressNationalRecordedSoundPreservationPlan(June2009-June2010)andsheservedasconsultantfortheResourcesinAmericanMusicHistoryIIProject.Nelson-StrausswasalsoappointedchairoftheMusicLibraryAssociation’sBlackMusicRoundtableandherchapteron“ReligiousMusic”willappearintheAssociation’sforthcomingBasic Music Library(4thed.).AtIndianaUniversity,sheisamemberoftheArchivesandSpecialCollectionsMonthPlanningCommittee,theMediaPreservationSurveyTaskforce,andtheWellsLibrarySpecialCollectionsGroup.Nelson-StraussalsoeditstheArchives’musicreviewwebsiteBlack Grooves(www.blackgrooves.org).WeencourageyoursubmissionofmaterialsforreviewandparticipationasreviewersofCDs,DVDs,andbooks. Administrator/ProjectManagerRondaSewaldisamemberoftheAssociationforRecordedSoundCollections’DACSforArchivalSoundRecordingssubcommitteeandTravelGrantAwardcommittee.ShealsoservesasthediscographerfortheSocietyforEthnomusicologyandcompiledthe2009volumeoftheEthnomusicologydiscography.AtIndianaUniversity,sheisamemberoftheEncodedArchivalDescriptionWorkingGroup

aaamc missionTheAAAMCisdevotedtothecollection,preservation,anddisseminationofmaterialsforthepurposeofresearchandstudyofAfricanAmericanmusicandculture.www.indiana.edu/~aaamc

From the Desk of the Director

Table of Contents

From the Desk ofthe Director ......................................3

Featured Collection:Roni Sarig ...........................................4

In the Vault: Recent Donations .........................5

Regina Jones’Soul Legacy .......................................6

Reclaiming theRight to Rock .................................10

Reclaiming theRight to Rock—Student Coverage ......................12

In Their Own Words:Interviews with thePanelists .........................................16

A R C H I V E S O F A F R I C A N A M E R I C A N M U S I C A N D C U L T U R E

liner notes

Reclaimingthe Right

to Rock: Black Experiences

in Rock Music

NO. 14 / 2009-2010

Suzanne ThomasPhotobyHsinwenHsuArtisticrenderingbyDennisLaffoon

On the Cover:

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andtheMetadataDiscussionGroup.SewaldrecentlycompletedherPh.D.dissertation,“TheDarkerSideofSound:ConflictsovertheUseofSoundscapesforMusicalPerformances”(IndianaUniversity,2009)andreceivedherPh.D.inEthnomusicology. InconjunctionwiththefestivalHonor! Festival Celebrating American Cultural Legacy,curatedbyJessyeNormanandpresentedbyCarnegieHall,IdevelopedthecontentfortheinteractivewebsiteHistory of African American Music(www.carnegiehall.org/honor/history/index.aspx)andparticipatedontwopanelsduringthefestival.Ialsopresentedthefollowingpapers:

•“SoulPower:JamesBrown,KingRecordsandtheMakingofModernAfricanAmericanMusic.”PlenaryAddressfortheAssociationfortheStudyofAfricanAmericanLifeandHistory,Cincinnati,OH(October2009).

•“UrbanVoicesofProtest:TheMusicofthe1960sand1970s.”Four-personpanelfor“MusicoftheMovement:

ASustainingVoice,”theculminatingeventoftheyear-longseries,Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.: Remembrance and Reconciliation,sponsoredbytheMarylandHumanitiesCouncil(November17,2009).

• “FightthePowerwithBlackPower:BlackMusicandPolitical/SocialActivisminthe1960sand1970s,”DenisonUniversity(January2009).

Myarticle,“DaytonStreetFunk:TheLayeringofMultipleIdentities,”appearsinThe Ashgate Research Companion to Popular Musicology,editedbyDerekScott(AshgatePress,2009). IampleasedtoannouncetherecentpublicationofthefourthbookintheBlackMusicinGlobalPerspectivebookseriespublishedbytheUniversityofIllinoisPressandeditedbymyselfandDr.MelloneeBurnim.EileenM.Hayes’Songs in Black and Lavender: Race, Sexual Politics, and Women’s Music(2010)drawsuponfieldworkconductedateightwomen’smusicfestivals.Hayesshowshowstudyingthesefestivals—attendedbypredominatelywhitelesbians—

providescriticalinsightintotheroleofmusicandlesbiancommunityformation.Withacuityandcandor,Hayes,anethnomusicologistandlongtimefeministactivist,elucidateswhythismusicscenematters.AAAMCAdvisoryBoardmemberLindaTilleryprovidesaforeword. IclosebyintroducingReginaJonesasthenewestmemberoftheAAAMCNationalAdvisoryBoard.In1966Jones,alongwithherformerhusbandKenJones,establishedandpublishedthefirstnationaltrademagazineonblackpopularmusic.SoulprovidedunprecedentednationalexposuretoAfricanAmericanartists,whichcontributedtotheirpopularity(seeinsidestory).ImetJonesin1983andshehasbeenamajorsupporterofmycollectioninitiativesintheareaofblackpopularmusic.IwelcomehertotheBoardandlookforwardtohercontinuedcontributionstotheArchives.

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On July 1, 2005, the world lost another African American musical legend—Luther Vandross, who began his professional ca-reer in the 1970s as a background singer for many renowned artists and as a vocalist on commercial jingles. In the 1980s he quickly advanced to superstar status as a soloist and balladeer. Even when hip-hop dominated the American soundscape in the 1990s, Van-dross remained popular among the masses, a testimony of the power and influence of his songs. A gifted songwriter-performer, he is best known for his smooth vocal timbre and passionate delivery of love songs, as well as his spectacular live performances that featured an array of stage props. The tropi-cal scenery (inclusive of palm trees); living room, bedroom, and dining room furniture; and the elegant formal gowns worn by his background singers gave each song its own personal touch. Vandross simply was a clas-sic act. Similar to other musical legends such as Ray Charles, who died in 2004, Vandross’s live performances, original compositions, and distinctive vocal style will remain central to the American soundscape through his re-cordings, videos, radio and television com-mercials, and movie soundtracks (see tribute inside). As the AAAMC continues to document the contributions of nationally renowned African American musicians, we also rec-ognize the need to acknowledge Indiana artists. While some of the musicians from our state have received national and inter-national acclaim—such as David Baker, Wes Montgomery, Freddy Hubbard, J. J. John-son, Ketra “Keke” Wyatt, Kenneth “Baby-face” Edmonds, After 7, The Jackson 5 (also known as The Jacksons), LaMar Campbell, Rodney Bryant, and Al Hobbs—there are many other locally acclaimed artists that are not well known outside of Indiana. The goal of the AAAMC is to document the lives and careers of these unsung legends who con-tributed to the development of a vibrant musical scene in Indiana (including popular, religious, and concert forms of musical ex-pression) since the 1940s. To this end, the AAAMC has launched an oral history proj-ect in partnership with the Indiana Histori-cal Society (IHS) that focuses on Indianapo-lis soul and funk musicians. This project is an extension of our collaboration with IHS on the exhibition "Soul and Funk: the Nap-town Sound", which highlights the role of Indianapolis musicians and their supporters in the production of the local “Naptown” sound of the 1960s and 1970s. The exhibit opened on March 12, 2005, and will be on display through December 31, 2005 (see story inside). As a second phase of this project, the AAAMC will also collect the personal narra

tives of Indiana musicians who specialized in religious and contemporary popular forms. In our ongoing acquisition of materials, the AAAMC targets traditions that are un-derrepresented in the scholarship on African American music. A form in particular in need of further study is electronic dance music. Although the early styles of this music were created primarily by African Americans, the role of these pioneers is rarely acknowledged. The AAAMC is now engaged in developing a collection of electronic dance music—in-cluding disco, house, and techno—as part of a project spearheaded by graduate assistant Denise Dalphond, who is currently writing a masters thesis on the topic (see story inside). Beginning in 2006, patrons will be able to identify the commercial recordings, vid-eos, and books housed in our collection by searching IUCAT, Indiana University’s on-line library catalog. This initiative is under the direction of Brenda Nelson-Strauss, Head of Collections (see inside story). The AAAMC is also pleased to announce the launching of a book series in conjunction with the University of Illinois Press. Co-ed-ited by Research Associate Mellonee Burnim and myself, Black Music in Cultural Perspective is designed to generate increased attention on such underrepresented topics in African American music scholarship as transnation-alism, religious music, popular music, wom-

en in music, music criticism, musical aesthet-ics, and regional studies. The series will also promote the publication of biographies and autobiographies of African American mu-sicians in an effort to document more fully the contributions of individual artists to the development and proliferation of African American music. Two books are currently in production for the series: New Perspectives on the Blues, edited by David Evans; and Black Women and Music: More than the Blues, edited by Eileen M. Hayes and Linda F. Williams. These are scheduled for release in 2006. Since the mid-1990s, the AAAMC has col-laborated with the African American Arts Institute and the School of Music to spon-sor “Extensions of the Tradition,” a concert series initiated by former Research Associ-ate Dr. William Banfield that showcases the works of African American composers. Our 2006 concert is slated for February 26, 2006, at 4:00 p.m. in the IU School of Music’s Auer Hall. The program will be announced at a later date. A corresponding exhibit is also planned for display in the Cook Music Library. Over the past year, the staff of the AAAMC participated in several publica-tion projects and professional conferences. Head of Collections Brenda Nelson-Strauss attended the Music Library Association an-nual conference in Vancouver, B.C. (Febru-ary 2005) and the Association for Recorded Sound Collections conference (in her ca-pacity as president of ARSC) in Austin, Texas (March 2005). At the spring meeting of the Midwest Archives Conference held in Chicago in May 2005, she assisted in or-ganizing a session on “Spreading the Gos-pel: Documenting African American Reli-gious Music” and presented a paper during this session on “Arizona Dranes and Early Gospel Music Recordings.” Other speakers included Suzanne Flandreau of the Center for Black Music Research and John Russick, Curator of the Chicago Historical Society.

continued on p.2

From the Desk of the Editor

Dr.PortiaMaultsbyannouncesthestartoftheSaturdaymorningconferencesessionwith(lefttoright)ReebeeGarofalo,Tamar-kali,MoeMitchell,andGregTate.

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Featured Collection

Documenting the “Third Coast”: The Roni Sarig Collection

JournalistRoniSarigrecentlydonatedtotheAAAMCalloftheinterviewrecordingsandsecondarysourcematerialsusedtocrafthisbook,Third Coast: OutKast, Timbaland and How Hip Hop Became a Southern Thing(2007).Third Coastisoneofthefirstmonograph-lengthworksonSouthern(akaDirtySouth)hiphop.1ThecollectioncomprisesfortyaudiocassettesofinterviewswithsomeofthemostimportantnamesinSouthernrapsuchasJermaineDupri,DJPaul,andtheClipse.Alsoincludedarefacsimilesofmagazineclippings,pressreleases,andotherpromotionalitemsfeaturingSouthernhiphopartistsandmusic.

AnativeofBaltimore,Maryland,RoniSarigbecameinterestedinwritingataveryearlyage.AftergraduatingfromNYUwithadegreeinEnglish,heworkedforatimeinNewYork,buthiscareerreallyblossomedfollowingamovetoSouthCarolina.SoonSarig’smusicfeatureswereappearinginpublicationsaroundthecountrysuchasRolling Stone, Vibe, XXL, Spin, The Village Voice, Interview,anddozensofnewspapersincludingThe New York Times.AsidefromThird Coast,Sarighasauthoredorco-authoredseveralbooksincludingThe Secret History of Rock: The Most Influential Bands You’ve Never Heard Of (1998),aswellaspracticalmanualsonbicyclingandseveralbooksonJewishfamilyandclassroomactivities. SarigmovedtoAtlantainSeptember1998andbecamethemusiceditorofCreative Loafing,thecity’spremierealternativenewspaper.Thatverysamemonth,OutKast’slandmarkalbum,

Aquemini¸wasreleased.ThecriticalandcommercialbuzzaroundAqueminiwasoneofthechieffactorsthatspurredontheAtlantaandSouthernrapscenes.Sarigfoundhimselfwritingseveralsmallarticlesaboutthesceneandbecamecaptivatedbythestories.SouthernrapwasbecomingaphenomenonworthyofexplorationandSarig,whosepresscredentialsgavehimatypeofinsiderstatus,felthehadtheabilityanddutytosharethisstorywiththepublic.ThusheembarkedontheprojectthateventuallyturnedintoThird Coast. Usingacassetterecorder,SariginterviewedovereightySouthernrappers,DJs,producers,musicindustryexecutives,andjournalistsduring2004–2006.ThesetapesofferfascinatinginsightintotheevolutionofSouthernhiphop.ParticularlyintriguingareDJReadyRed’sstoryabouttheformationoftheGetoBoys,TheClipse’sdiscourseonrecordlabelpolitics,andCrunchyBlack’s

Author Roni Sarig with son Uri Sarig and Andre Benjamin

1 For another monograph on Southern hip hop, see: Palmer, Tamara. 2005. Country Fried Soul: Adventures in Dirty South Hip hop. Backbeat Books.

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Roni Sarig Collection: InterviewswithSouthernhiphopartistsandresearchmaterialsrelatedtohisbookThird Coast(seefeaturearticle)

Michael Jackson Tributes: Commemorativepublicationsincludingmagazines,presscoverage,andtelevisedmemorialservice

Linda Tillery:ScrapbookandpressmaterialsdocumentinghercareerwithTheLoadingZone,CulturalHeritageChoir,andothergroups;collectionofrockandR&BLPs

Reclaiming the Right to Rock: Conferencevideos,photos,interviews,programs,andpressandresearchmaterialsdocumentingtheAAAMC’sconference(seefeaturearticle)

Jared Nickerson: PapersrelatedtotheBlackRockCoalition

Regina Jones: Soulmagazineseries(seefeaturearticle)

James Spooner:MaterialsandfootagerelatedtoAfro-Punk

CD/DVD/Book Donors:

AntiBallin’EntertainmentBearFamilyBillCarpenterBlindRaccoonBlueCornMusicBradley,AdamBudaCanongateCaseQuarterConcordConquerooCrossoverDeaconDelmarkDivisibleDorianDust-to-DigitaleByrdCommunicationsEMIGospelEmusicaFlySouthGoldDustGuerrillaFunkHarteRecordings

In the Vault: Recent Donations

HeadsUpIntegrityIntercessionJazzPromoCherylKeyesKochLawrenceHillBooksLegacyLewis,RonLexRecordsLightintheAtticLiveWiredMusicM.C.RecordsMahon,MaureenMalacoMaultsby,PortiaMaynor,KevinMorry,EmilyMr.WonderfulMusicWorldMVDNatureSoundNelson-Strauss,BrendaPeakPenn,Ivan

PRARapsterSacksandCo.SecretlyCanadianShanachieShoreFireSmithsonianFolkwaysSoundsofBlacknessSt.Martin’sPressStrutSwift,RobTapeVaultTaseisMediaGroupTelarcThuglifeArmyTimeLifeMusicTompkinsTrafalgarSquareTruThoughtsTyscotUniversalVampisoulVerityWhitall,SusanZomba

taleofThree6Mafia’shumbleMemphisbeginnings.ForSarig,themostcompellingstoryisthatoftheShowboys,theNewYork-basedrapgroupwhose“DragRap”singlelaidthefoundationsforbothNewOrleansbounceandMemphiscrunk. AfterpublishingThird Coastin2007,Sarigfelthehadaccomplishedeverythinghehadwantedtoasawriteranddecidedtotakeabreakfromtheprofession.Forthelastfouryears,hehastaughthighschooljournalisminAtlanta.SarigseeshiscollectionattheAAAMCaspartofhislegacyandhopesthatitwillaidfutureresearchintoSouthernhiphopculture. Toaccompanythiscollection,theAAAMCembarkedonaprojecttoobtainprominentalbumsrepresentingeachSouthernhiphopcenter.Bassclassicssuchas2LiveCrew’sAs Nasty as They Wanna BeandDJMagicMike’sAin’t No Doubt About It,alongwithPoisonClan’s2 Low Life Muthas,offeraglimpseintoFloridahiphop.TheGeorgiaseriesfeaturessuchnotablereleasesasOutKast’sseminalATLiensandKilo’sAmerica Has a Problem.Louisianaisrepresentedbyanumberofreleasesfromthestate’stwohistorichiphoplabels,CashMoneyandNoLimit,includingBG’sChopper CityandMasterP’sIce Cream ManalongwithclassicbouncereleasessuchasIt’s JimibyDJJimi.ReleasesliketheGetoBoys’We Can’t Be Stopped,UGK’sSuper Tight,andDJScrew’sAll Work, No PlaycomposetheTexascollection.NotableTennesseeinclusionsareComin’ Out HardandMystic Stylez,thedebutsfromMemphisartists8Ball&MJGandThree6Mafia,respectively.Alabama’sRichBoy,NorthCarolina’sLittleBrother,andMississippi’sDavidBannerareamongtheotherartistsincludedintheAAAMC’sSouthernrapcollection. Althoughallofthesealbumswereproducedwithinthelasttwentyyears,itsoonbecameapparentthatmanyofthelocalorregionalclassicsarenowoutofprintandthatimmediateactionwasnecessarytopreservetherichlegacyofSouthernhiphop.WiththeRoniSarigCollectionanditsaccompanyingSouthernrapCDcollection,theAAAMChasbecomeagreatresourceforinformationandmaterialsrelatedtoSouthernhiphopmusicandculture.

— Langston Collin Wilkins, AAAMC Graduate Assistant

TheAAAMCwelcomesdonationsofphotographs,filmandvideo,soundrecordings,music,andresearchmaterialsonallaspectsofAfricanAmericanmusic.

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On March 11, 1983, Dr. Portia K. Maultsby interviewed Regina Jones, owner of Soul, a groundbreaking magazine published in Los Angeles from 1966-1982. Their relationship continued over the years and Jones was invited to become a member of the AAAMC’s National Advisory Board last year. Recently, Jones donated a nearly complete set of Soul to the AAAMC, and also established the SOULLegacyCollection at UCLA. She is currently working to complete TheJanGayeStory, a biography of Marvin Gaye’s second wife, as well as SOULRememberstheJacksonFamily, a collection of stories about the Jacksons that appeared on the pages of Soul in the 1970s. What follows are excerpts from the 1983 interview about the historical importance of Soul.

Maultsby (PKM): Whatwerethecircumstancesthatled youtoformtheSoulpublication?

Jones (RJ):Myhusband,KenJones,startedit.There wasanentertainmenttabloidcalledThe Beatand itwasdedicatedtowhitepopularmusic.Ken thoughttherewasaneedtochronicleblackmusic, sohepatternedSoulafterThe Beat.Thefirstissues of Soul werepublishedoutofThe Beat’soffices. KenwasaradionewsreporterandCecilTuck,the publisherandownerofThe Beat, wasalsothe KRLAnewsdirectorandKen’sboss.WhenKen startedSoul,therewasnocoverageofblackmusic, nowherefornewgroupstogetexposure.Hehad beeninthenewsmediaforquiteafewyearsand hadwrittenfornewspapers,bothwhiteandblack, andsawthatitwasnecessarytofillthisgap—to createsomekindofinstrumenttocovernews ofblackmusic.Atthattime,Ebonyand Jetdidn’t payattentiontoblackmusic.IfyouwereHarry BelafonteorLenaHornemaybe,butotherthan that,thereweremaybelittle,tinyarticles.That’s howSoul started—asalocal,LosAngeles,eight- pagetabloid.Thepromotionideawastoassociate itwiththelocalradiostationKGFJ...andwe soldsomanycopiesthroughtheradiostationthat peoplethoughtKGFJhadstarteditwhenitwas

actuallyanadvertisingexchange.Weputthecall lettersKGFJonthepapersandhadon-the-airradio advertisingwithouthavingtopayforit.Bythe secondyear,therewereradiopartnersinover30 cities.

PKM: Whatwastheartistresponsetothepaperinitially? Whatkindofcooperationdidyougetandhow wereyouabletoseekoutinterviews?

RJ: Itwasagreatresponse,buttherewerehurdles. Whenweoriginallycalledtogetmaterialonblack artists,therewerenophotosorbiographies. Halfthetimetherewaslittletonoinformation. Recordcompaniesfrequentlydidn’tknowhowto reachtheartist.Ithadnotjelledlikeithastoday. Wewrotemostoftheoriginalbiographiesonthe artistsortheywerewrittenbyrecordcompany peopleatourrequest.Theyhadtodoitinorderto producewhatwewanted.

Motown,Ithink,wasthemostorganized,but mostoftheirset-upraninconjunctionwithwhat wewererequesting.Weweremakingrequestsand theywereworkingtotrytofillourrequests.We didalotofinterviews.Itismypersonalopinion thattheentirepublicrelationsentityrelatedto blackmusicgrewoutofSoul’sneedsandSoul’s requests.ThePRdepartmentsgotbuilt,PRfirms tookonblackaccountexecutives,anditgrewand grewuntilitbecameamajorbusinessforalong periodoftime.Thathasnowsubsided;allofthat blackgrowthhasdied.Soulwatchedblackmusic becomearecognizablebusinessanditgrewtobea veryfinanciallyrewardingbusinessforalotof people.ButIthinknowthat’sallended.

PKM: SoulmagazinewasfirstpublishedinLosAngeles onApril14,1966.Thatwasalongtimeago!

RJ: Yes.IrememberdrivingdownCentralAvenue andatthecornerofImperialandCentral,

ReginaJonesatherdesk,1980.

Regina Jones’ Soul Legacy

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stoppingataredlightandlookingoveratabus benchandthispersonwassittingtherewithSoul spreadopen.Thatwasmyfirstrealizationof whatwehaddone.Before,ithadjustbeenanidea, theexcitementofdoingsomethingnew,andthe workofpullingittogetherandgettingitout.But whenIactuallysawthispersonwhohadgonetoa storeandpaidmoneyandboughtacopyandwas sittingthere,intenselyreadingit,thatwasthe reality.Thedreamhadbeenrealizedanditwas validated;someonereallywantedit.Thatwasmuch morestimulating,becauseitwaswrittenforthe people.Yes,itwastochronicleblackmusic,but ifthepeoplethatwewantedtoreachdidn’tsee whattheywanted—ifSoulwasn’tprovidingthe needthatwethoughtexisted—thentherewasno purpose.Westartedgettinglettersfromaroundthe country,aroundtheworldduringtheVietnamWar. ThesoldiersoverinVietnamwouldsendinletters. WehadSoulBrotherandSoulSistersweatshirts. You’dgetthesethreeone-dollarbills(thecostof aone-yearsubscription)withdirtfromVietnam, someofitbloodstainedmoney.Itwasreallya wholeemotionalexperiencebackthentoknow thatyourdreamwasreallycaredabout.Weeven hadtheFBIcomeintotheofficeonetime.The agentswantedtoknowwhatthiscompanywas about,whatwasthis“SoulBrother,”becausemilitary peoplewerewearingthesesweatshirts.Soul really gotofftoagreatbeginning,anditwaswell received,anditfulfilledaneedatthattimeandgrew fromthere.

PKM: In1966,Motownhadmostoftheblackroster,with StaxandAtlantic...

RJ: Motownwasthemostcooperative.Whereas othercompanieswereincorporatingandrecording somerecordsbyblacksingers,Motownwasablack recordcompanydevoted,justlikewewere,toblack music.

PKM:Atthattime,theywereinDetroit.Soyouwere contactingcompaniesalloverthecountry?

RJ: Oh,yeah.Icanremembermyfirstexperiencegoing backtoMotown,andhowcooperativethey were,andhowwellreceivedIwas.Imean,they reallywantedtoworkwithusandassistus.Berry Gordywasverycooperative.Ifyoulookinold volumes[ofSoul]you’llseewherehewasonthe roadalotofthetimewiththeSupremesand othergroups,andhewouldalwayscooperate; anythingwewanted—questionsanswered,pictures, anythingwewantedwegot.Theyunderstoodthe needforSoulmagazineandtheysupportedus fromdayone.

TherewasalsoChessRecordsbackatthattimein Chicago.Itwasthesamekindofreactionthere. Atlanticwasresponsive.JamesBrown—anything youwanted,youhadit.Hewasalwaysvery cooperativeandhewasamanthatnotonly contributedhistime,buthewouldspendthe moneytobesupportive,toencourage.I’vehad personalexperienceswithJames,andfinancially— whenhewasathisprimemakingmoney—ifyou wereastrugglingblackartist,he’dreachinhis pocketandbuyyouaticket,orhandyouthe money.Thisisthekindofresponsehehadwith Soul.Heboughtadvertisingandhespentmoney withSoul tohelpmakesurethatwewould continue.Andthiswasrare,becausealthoughmost ofthepeoplewantedtocooperateonapublicity level,onaneconomicleveltheydidnotwantto reachintheirpocketsandspendmoney.

PKM: Whatwasthecooperation/reactionfromwhite companies,likeCapitol,CBS,RCA?

RJ: Primarilyignorance,lackofunderstanding.We’re talkingaboutthe’60s,soblackwasjustsomething theydidnotknowabout.Iwasveryfortunateat CapitolRecords.Therewasawomanthere,Joyce

LefttoRight:GregPhillinganes,MarlonJackson,QuincyJones,ReginaJones,andMichaelJackson;takenattheHollywoodBrownDerbyataQuincyparty,March1980.

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Miller,whoatthetimewasthefirstblack promotionswomaninthecountrywhoworked forCapitolRecords,andthiswasaveryprestigious position.SheworkedwithSoul becauseshesaw theneed,andithelpedherdoherjob,soshereally foughtwithhercompanytogettheirsupport.

Imeanitwasafight—itwasafighteverystep oftheway,butitwasaneducationalfight.Ifthere wasracismthere,Idon’treallychoosetocomment onit,butitwasmoreofacaseofignorance,’cause tomethat’swhatracismandraceproblems areabout.Buttherewasalotofignorance;Imean tremendousamountsofignorance.Theblack performerwasn’tthoughtofasaperson.Wehadto literallydeveloptheunderstandingthatblack artistshavetobepromotedjustlikeotherartists.

Thethingisthough,thereweremoreexpertson blackmusicthatweranintowhowerewhite.Our firsteditorswerewhite;thepeoplethatwerewilling tocomeandwork,todothewriting—thesewere whitegirls,primarily.Inretrospect,thatisvery sadtome,butit’safact.Theywantedtobein editorial,theylikedthemusic,andmanyofthem wereworkingforThe Beat,sotheyalreadyknew howtoputoutatabloid.Theyjuststartedhelping usandnextthingweknew,whenwedecidedto breakaway,theycamewithus.CarolDeckwasthe editorforquitesomeperiodoftime.Thesecond editorwasanotherwhitegirl,RochelleReed,[as was]oneofourmainstaywriters,NikkiWine.We hadtogooutandcovereventsandtheywould havetogointoablackclub,andatfirsttheywere verycomfortabledoingit.Butthentheracialissues startedandtheybecameveryuncomfortableand

didn’tfeelsafe.Butatfirsttherewerenoproblems. Wealsobecamemoreradicalinourthinking—we wantedblackeditors,blackwriters—soSoul actuallywentthroughatransitionfromjust featuringgoodblackmusicforpeoplewholiked music,tobeingaboutblackmusicforblackpeople. Wewentthroughthesamechangesthatthe countrywentthrough.

PKM: Youhiredblackeditorsandwriterslater?

RJ: Yes,moreandmorewe’dseekthemout,though theonesthatseemedtohavethemostknowledge weretoooftenstillwhite.Imeanitsaddensmeto thisdaywhenIthinkaboutit,becausethemostin- depthrecordcollectionsthatwewouldruninto primarilywereall[ownedby]whites.Itcould beabouteconomicsagain.Ayoungmannamed RonBaronjustlovedandworshippedblackmusic andgotveryinvolved.Heendedupbeingvery successfulastheyearsprogressed,doingpublic relationsforblackmusic.Therewerewhiteslike thisthatwerewillingtoworkfornothing—ten centsastory,oralineorwhatever. Irememberoneofthemostexcitingtimesofmy lifewaswhenwecameoutwithSoul Illustrated, whichmust’vebeenin’68.IwasupinNewYork atCarolineFranklin’s(Aretha’ssister’s)apartment, andLonnieElder(authoroftheplayCeremonies in Dark Old Men)wasthereandofferedtowrite forSoul Illustrated.Lonniewasthefirstprestigious blackwritertojustsay,“Hey,whatcanIdo?”I mean,wewerejustecstatictohavesomeoneof hisstaturerecognizewhatweweretryingtodo andbewillingtoworkwithusandgiveushis input.OurfirstphotographerwasHoward Bingham,whobecameMuhammadAli’spersonal photographerandBillCosby’spersonal photographer.HowardBinghamisacelebrity,one ofthefirstnationalblackphotographersof entertainmentthatIknowof.

PKM: GenerallyyoureffortswithSoulbegantomake inroadsinthewhitecorporatestructureasthey becameawareofadvertisingopportunities,which issomethingtheyobviouslyhadn’tdone.Ifthey didn’thavebiosonblackartists,theyweren’t advertising.Sobasicallytheyweremanufacturing recordsandsendingthemintoblackcommunities. Iftheysold,fine;iftheydidn’t,fine.Iftheyhada superstar,asseenthroughwhiteeyes,likeJohnny Mathis,orsomeonelikethat,thenhewould probablyhaveabio.

RJ: That’sright.

PKM: SoulmagazineprecededeachofthoseEnglish publicationsonblackmusic.

RJ: Yes.WealsoprecededRolling Stone—itwas

9

patternedexactlylikewhatweweredoing.In theearlydayswhenRolling Stonestarted,justabout everythingtheysaidordidaboutblackmusic usedSoulforhistoricalresearch,andwewere constantlyquotedintheirearlyissues.WhenLook magazinedidtheirbigstoryonJamesBrown, thewriterspentweeksupinourofficegoing throughmaterial.Manythingslikethathappened inthoseearlydays,becauseSoulwasthefirst[to coverblackmusic].Itwasarealstrangefeeling.We knewweweretheauthority,yetwealsoknewhow muchwedidn’tknow.Thiswouldoftenleave uswondering,“Oh,God,youmeantherereally isnothingelse?”Imean,evennowit’sreallyhard formetobelievethattherewasnothingelse.How coulditbethatouthereinL.A.webegansomething sosignificantwhenyou’vegotsomuchblack energyintheEast,somanymorepeople?Butthere wasnothingsimilartomyknowledge.

PKM:Ingettingthemagazineonthemarket,howdid youknowwheretoputthepaper?Didyou distributeinblackcommunities?

RJ: Alltrialanderror.Whenwestarted,wetriedto findouthowtogetitout,andtherewasoneguy, FrankDiskin,whodidsomemagazinedistribution ofEbonyandJetinSouthL.A.,whichwastheblack area.Diskinhadaneggstandat116thand Broadway,anoldtruck,andhesoldeggs.Oncea weekhewentaroundanddeliveredJetandonce amonth,Ebony,toliquorstoresandsmallmarkets. WehadtobegFrank.Wespentlotsoftimetelling himhowSoulwasgonnamakeitand,“youreally gottodoit.”Wespentweekstalkingtohimabout it.Finally,hesaid,“Ok,”andhewasshocked, becauseassoonasSoulhitthenewsstandsit soldlikewildcakes.Itwasunbelievable,justreally unbelievable.Idon’trememberwhatourfirstrun was,butwiththenextissuewehadtoprintmore papers.Itjustgrew—thepeoplewerehungry forit,andtheyjustgrabbedit.Imean,itgrewso muchthatFrankgaveuphiseggstandinavery shortperiodoftime,andbecamethelargest distributorintheblackcommunity.

PKM:He’sblack?

RJ: No,aJewishguy.Hisbusiness,hiswholelife changed,becauseofSoul.HehadbeendoingJet andEbonyforyears,butwhenSoulcamewe completelydisruptedFrank’slife.Therewasnot muchelsehecoulddo,’causewewerecomingout onceaweek.Themoneythatwouldcomeinfrom thepeople,thesubscriptions,Imeanitwas overwhelming,eventous.Dollars,quarters, nickels,dimes,butitwasjust—itwasfantastic. ThesecondtimeIsawthatinSoul’shistorywas whenwecametotheconclusionthattheJackson5 weregonnabeit.Wedecidedtodoaseriesof issuesandweputthemonthecoveranditwas

thesameresponse.Motowndidn’tknowthey weregoingtobeasbigastheyweresoquickly.I mean,theresponsewasunbelievable,allover thecountry.Thepapersweresellingoutandwe hadtoreprint.Thevolumeofmailwas unbelievable.Itwascomingfromeverywhere. PeopleheardtheycouldreadaboutthegroupinSoul andtheyweresendingfiftycents,Ithinkitwas,per issue.Imean,therewouldbejusthundredsof dollarsofquarterseverydaytodepositandthe mailmanwascominginwithbigbags,likeyousee inoldmovies.

PKM:Howdidartistsfeelaboutthemagazine?

RJ: Theylovedit.Theyweresupportiveofit;they likedtobefeaturedinit.Intheearlydays,we couldreachanyblackentertainerinthecountry anytimewewantedto,becauseweweretheonly placeforthemtogo.Thatchangedquicklyas themusicindustrygrewandchanged,andasthe otherperiodicalscameup.Theyquicklyforgot. Whentheygotbig,theynolongercaredabout wantingtobeinSoulmagazine;nexttheywanted tobeinEbonywhenEbonyfinallydeemedthatit wasfinanciallyrewardingtodostoriesandput ablackentertaineronthecover.Thatwastheir dreamanddesire.Thenmanyofthemsurpassed theirdesireforEbony;theywantedinRolling Stone, ortoberecognizedbythewhitepress.Public relationsfirmsthathadgrownoutoftheneedto bethereforblackmusicwouldeventelltheirartist that“Youdon’treallyneedSoul.”Therewas disrespectthatstartedtogrow,allkindsofvery negativefeelings.Therewasatotaldisrespectof blackmedia,notjustSoul.Iwouldhearthisfrom writersalloverthecountry.Becausethedesirewas togetintothewhiteperiodicalsandthatwasit. Forblackperiodicals,theywouldthrowthemabio, orthrowthemacannedstory.Soulwouldnever goalongwiththat.Ifwecouldn’tsitone-on-one withtheartistanddoastory,wejustwouldnotdo it.Weheldfirmtoourmission.

PKM:WhatledtothedefunctstatusofSoul?

RJ: Soulstartedtodieyearsagowhentherewasno longeraneedforaspecializedblackmusic publication.Blackpeoplenolongerwantedto readjustaboutblackmusic.Manystartedbuying whiterecordsandwantedtoreadaboutwhite artists.Wetriedincorporatingwhiteartiststhat weresellingintheblackmarket,andwegot tremendousresponsefromthat,butwealso receivedhatemail.Souloutliveditsusefulness. ImeanSoulneededsomeradicalchanges,andwe werenotablekeepupwithandaheadofthe changingtimes.Therewerenotenoughnew creativeideas.Weneverhadafinancialfootingand sixteenyearswasalongtimeforanunfinanced startupbusinesstosurvive.That’swhathappened.

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OnNovember13-14,2009,theAAAMChostedatwo-dayconferenceinIndianaUniversity’sNeal-MarshallBlackCultureCenter.EntitledReclaiming the Right to Rock: Black Experiences in Rock Music,theconferencebroughttogetherblackrockmusiciansfromdifferentgenerationsandregionswithmusiccriticsandscholarstodiscussthesocio-politicalhistory,musicaldevelopments,andthefutureofblackrock. TheideafortheconferencebeganasadiscussionbetweenDirectorPortiaMaultsbyandMaureenMahon,AssociateProfessorofMusicatNewYorkUniversityandauthorofthebookRight to Rock: The Black Rock Coalition and the Cultural Politics of Race(DukeUniversityPress,2004).Inherbook,MahonaddressesanumberofissuesfacedbyblackrockmusiciansincludingthelackofsupportfromAfricanAmericanaudiences,the(mis)conceptionofrockaswhitemusic,theracismandstereotypesinherentinthemusic

industry,andtheappropriationofblackmusicbywhiteartists.Foundedin1985byVernonReid,GregTate,andKondaMason,theBlackRockCoalition(BRC)servesasasupportnetworkandsoundingboardforblackrockerslookingtofightthesystem.TheBRCisnowcelebratingits25thanniversaryandhasover3,000namesonitsmailinglist. Althoughanumberofblackartistshaverecentlyreleasedsuccessfulrockalbums,includingTVontheRadioandSantigold,manyothersstillfacethesamedifficultiesinitiallyaddressedbyBRCmembersinthe’80s.Furthermore,despitetheirrolesasinnovatorsandcontributorstorockmusic,mostblackrockerscontinuetofallwellbelowtheradarofscholars,libraries,andarchives. Seekingtoaddressbothoftheseissues,Maultsbywasinspiredtohostaconferencethatwouldbringtogetheradiverserangeofvoicesandperspectives.TheAAAMCflewinthirteenpanelistsandmoderatorsfromacrossthecountryandEurope

Reclaiming the Right to RockA Conference on Black Experiences in Rock Music

Saturdayafternoonsessionwith(lefttoright)MaurenMahon,SuzanneThomas,Netic,KamaraThomas,andRobFields.

PhotoofmainexhibitcasebyAnnaBatcheller.

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toparticipateinthreediscussionsessions.InadditiontoMahon,thesepanelistsincludedthefollowingmusicians,scholars,andcritics:

Session I: “WhatIsRock:DefinitionandRoots”

• Kandia Crazy Horse–Rockcritic,formerSeniorAssociateEditorforThe Village Voice,andauthorofRip It Up: The Black Music Experience in Rock ‘n’ Roll(2004);• Stew–Singer,songwriter,andguitaristforStewandTheNegroProblem;performer,composer,andbookwriterforTonyAward-winningmusicalPassing Strange;• Ike Willis –FormerleadsingerandrhythmguitaristforFrankZappa;• Andy Hollinden(moderator)–SeniorLecturer,IUJacobsSchoolofMusic,aswellasaproducer,composer,andperformerwithnumerousrockbands.

Session II: “ThePoliticsofRock:Race,Class,Gender,Generation”

• Tamar-kali –Hardcoresongwriter,vocalist,andguitarist;• Moe Mitchell–LeadsingerforCipher;• Greg Tate–EssayistandstaffwriterforThe Village Voice, foundingmemberoftheBRC,andconductorandmusicdirectorforBurntSugar;• Linda Tillery–FounderandleaderofTheCulturalHeritageChoir,formerleadsingerforTheLoadingZone,andaproducerandpercussionistfornumerousmusicalgroups;• Reebee Garofalo(moderator)–ProfessorattheCollegeofPublicandCommunityServiceatUMassBostonandauthorofRockin’ Out: Popular Music in the USA(4thed.,2008).

Session 3: “FaceofRockinthe21stCentury”

• Rob Fields–Self-described“blackrockevangelist”andauthoroftheBoldAsLove.comblackrockblog;• Netic –Leadvocalist/MCforGameRebellion;

• Kamara Thomas–Singer,songwriter,bassist,andguitaristforEarlGreyhoundandGhostGamblers;• Suzanne Thomas–Guitarist,singer,andsongwriterforSuzanne&TheBluesChurch;• Maureen Mahon(moderator).

TheconferencewaspartiallysupportedbyIU’sNewFrontiersProgram,whichisfundedbytheLillyEndowmentandadministeredbytheOfficeoftheViceProvostforresearch.TheNewFrontiersgrantwasalsousedtocreateanexhibitdocumentingtheroleofblackartistsinrockmusicfromitsinceptioninblues,throughtheindelibleimpactofJimiHendrix,andonintothecurrentworkofourpanelists.FeaturingLPs,CDs,photographs,flyers,posters,andotherpromotionalmaterialsfromtheAAAMC’scollections,theexhibitwasco-curatedbyBrendaNelson-StraussandLangstonWilkins,withadditionalassistancefromAnnShaffer.TheexhibitwasondisplayintheBridgwatersLoungeoftheNeal-MarshallBlackCultureCenterfromOct.19-Nov.20,2009. InadditiontotheNewFrontiersgrant,theAAAMCreceivedfinancialandin-kindsupportfromtwenty-foursponsorsandcollaborators(seep.15forfulllistofeventsandsponsors)andnearlyfortyvolunteers.Throughthesupportoftheseinstitutionsandindividuals,theBloomingtoncampusplayedhosttoteneventsincludingfilmscreenings,lectures,workshops,andaSaturdayeveningrockconferenceinadditiontothethreepanelsandtheexhibitfundedbytheNewFrontiersgrant. Althoughorganizingandhostingtheconferenceandcoordinatingninedaysofconference-relatedeventsprovedtobeachallengingprojectinandofitself,Maultsbyalsowantedtoensurethatthishistoricseriesofeventsandthethoughtsandexperiencesofthepanelistswerewell-documented.Aprofessionalfilmcrewwashiredtovideotapethethreesessionsplusaone-on-oneinterviewwitheachpanelist.Thecrewalsofilmedatwo-hourUnionBoardconcertfeaturingtheIUSoulRevue,

Suzanne&TheBluesChurch,andTamar-kali. Thedocumentationoftheseevents,aswellasaudienceinterviewsandbackstagerecordingsmadebyoveradozenvolunteers,wascoordinatedbyMikeMcAlpin.McAlpincurrentlyservesastheDirectorofMediaRelationsforSaintMary’sCollegeofCaliforniaandhashadadistinguishedandaward-winningcareerasabroadcasttelevisionproducerandjournalist.AmonghisaccoladesareanEmmyAward,multipleEmmyAwardnominations,andtheNiemanFellowshipforJournalismatHarvardUniversity.IUgraduatestudentJessieWallnerassistedMcAlpinwiththecoordinationofthevolunteervideographersandphotographers.EquipmentforthevolunteerdocumentationeffortswassuppliedbyIU’sSoundandVideoAnalysis&InstructionLab(SAVAIL). TheconferencealsoprovidedIUstudentsinFolkloreandEthnomusi-cology,Telecommunications,andJournalismwithahands-onopportunitytopracticetheirtrades.SupplementalaudiodocumentationwasrecordedbystudentsenrolledinPaulMahern’sAudioProductioncourseandusedinthecreationoftheirfinalpodcastprojects.StudentmembersoftheIUChapteroftheNationalAssociationforBlackJournalistsandseveralIUJournalismcoursesprovidedcoverageoftheconferenceandconference-relatedevents(seenextarticleformoredetails). Theendresultisnearlyaterabyte(1,000gigabytes)ofaudio,video,andimagefilesforuseinclassroomprojectsandthecreationofeducationalproductssuchaspodcastsandinstructionalwebsites.Alongwiththematerialscollectedforthecreationoftheexhibitanddonationsreceivedfromanumberofthepanelists,thisdatawillserveasthecoreoftheAAAMC’snewblackrockcollection,whichwewillcontinuetobuildandexpanduponforyearstocome.

— Ronda L. Sewald

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Black Rock Conference Story/Reflection

Iconsidermyselfmusicliterate.Havinganappreciationformusicfromthepastandpresent,I’mabletorecallinformationandfactsonthego,stumpingmyfriendswithhowmuchIknow.YoucouldsayI’malittleobsessedwithknowinglittletidbitslikethat.I’mtheguywhobuysthealbumjusttoreadthelinernotes.Iguessit’stheinquiringjournalistinme.Ifeltconfidentinthistalentuntiltheblackrockconference.IrealizedtherewasanentireworldofAfricanAmericanculturethatIhadbeendirectly,andindirectly,dismissedfromexperiencing. I’lladmitthatmyignoranceofBlacks’contributionstorockmusicispartiallyattributedtomylackofresearch.Iwasbornin1987,ayearbeforetheheralded“GoldenAgeofHipHop”andthepopvibesofnewjackswing.Bythen,rockmusichad

beenvisuallyassociatedwithgreatwhiteartistsandanevengreaterwhiteaudience.MTVhadonlyrecentlyintroducedblackartiststotheirregularprogrammedlineup,andtheyweremostlyrelegatedtotraditionallyblackmusicgenres:contemporaryR&B,rap,funk,reggae,hiphop,etc.Eventoday,yourarelyseeablackmanwithaguitarunlessit’sLennyKravitz,Prince,orifyou’rewatchingadifferentchannelaltogether. AndifIthoughttheseindirectinfluenceswerestrong,thenthedirectinfluencesinmyownhouseholdwerestronger.Myparentswerebothborninthe1950s,whichmeanttheywouldhavegrownupwiththesoulfulpopofthe’60sandthefar-outfunkofthe’70s.Mymotherrarelystrayedfromtheurbanlane.GrowingupinEastChicago,Indiana,toparentsofMississippianroots,sheidentifiedmostwiththejazzandgospelsounds.Eventothisday,sheprefersmusicofamellowertempo,unlessofcourseitinvolvesrelivingthedaysofSoul Train.Myfatherexperimentedmore

Reclaiming the Right to Rock – Student Coverage

As part of our mission for the conference, the AAAMC sought to give IU students practical hands-on experience with documenting live events. We’ve selected two exceptional articles to feature in this year’s issue. The first article presents Lorin Williams’ reactions to the first and third conference sessions. Williams reflects on how his personal background and experiences have shaped his perceptions of black musicians in rock music. The second article by Melody Barham summarizes a classroom lecture presented by Suzanne Thomas for Dr. Mellonee Burnim’s course “From Juke Joint to Choir Loft: Sacred vs. Secular in African American Music.”

Paul Mahern’s Audio Production course, offered by IU’s Department of Telecommunications, provided additional coverage. Jordan Kilpin created an excellent podcast, which was aired as part of “Artworks,” a weekly arts and culture program on WFIU student radio. This podcast is available at: http://indianapublicmedia.org/artworks/10-04/.

Fridayafternoonsessionwith(lefttoright)AndyHollinden,IkeWillis,KandiaCrazyHorse,andStew.

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thanmymother,enjoyingHendrixandTowerofPowerjustasmuchasGeorgeClintonandGeorgeDuke.BythetimeIcamearound,theywereintheirearlythirtiesandhadgraduatedtocontemporaryR&Bandjazz,andtheold-schoolsongsoftheperiod. SonaturallyIgravitatedtothesoundsandlooksthatmirroredmyimage,myenvironment.Isegregatedmyselffromblackrockassomethingdifferent.Oddlyenough,IhadnoproblemsingingalongwithTheKnack’s“MySharona,”orAlanisMorissette’s“Uninvited;”butletanAfricanAmericangripaguitarandpullthesamepop/rockgritandIchangedthestation.IhadfallenvictimtothesameprejudicepeoplefelttowardR&Borrap.Ididn’tunderstand,thereforeIfeared.Andmyfearsbegotjudgment.IseenowthatknowingthishistoryandembracingmyinnerAfro-punk,ifitexists,isasmuchapartofmyhistoryasitisanyoneelse’s.Justbeinginthesameroomastheserockmusicpioneerscementedtheideathatmusicisbeyondtheconfinescriticsandaudiencesplaceitin. Fortwodays,twohourseach,IfeltasifIwaswalkingthroughhistory,awitnesstohistoryinthemaking.Twosessionstaughtmewherewehavecomefrom,andwherewecouldbeheaded.Thefirstsessionconcentratedontheoriginsofrockandroll,andhowthroughtimethe“‘roll’wasleftout,”asIkeWillissaid.TheleadsingerandguitaristforFrankZappaspokeofthecriticismhereceivedasablackkidgrowingupwhowantedtoplaytheguitar.Willissaidpeoplejustdidn’tfeelcomfortablewithhim“playin’thatcrazywhiteboyshit.”Hehonestlyfeltmusicistooimportanttobe“labeled”and“categorizedintoalump.” Anotherpanelist,musiccriticandBlackCrowes-fanatic,KandiaCrazyHorse,spokeabouthowbeingbornafterJimiHendrixreallysegregatedherfromtheblackrocksound;ortherocksoundingeneral.Shespokeveryinsightfullyonhowpeoplebelievedthe’70swasthisliberatedandpost-

CivilRights,post-racismerainmusic,wheninrealitythemusicindustrywasbecomingmoreandmoresegregated.YouhadAmerican BandstandandSoul Train;twoshowswhichblatantlytargetedtwoseparateaudiences. “Whyarewescaredofthissound?”sheasked.SherememberedgrowingupintheSouth,andhowthesameinstrumentsandriffsthatwereusedinSundaymorningworshipwereforcesofeviloncetheywereusedinasecularsense.Thesameaccusationsweremadeaboutjazzinthe1920s,beforewhitescoinedthatastheirowntoo,foraprofit. Iwasmostamazedbythepanelists’vastknowledgeofthearttheylovesomuch.Stew,theTonyAward-winningdirectorofBroadway’sPassing Strange,deconstructedthetruthbehindTheBeatlessuccess:theywantedtosoundlikeLittleRichard.Itwasasifalighthadcomeon.The“Tutti-Frutti”singerhadbeentellingthetruthalltheseyears!Butreally,hesimplifiedhispointbysaying,“That’sthewayartworks;youtry,youfail,anditturnsintosomethingelse.”Ihadbeenschooled. Whereasthefirstsessiontaughtmealot,thethirdsessionreinforcedsomepreconceivedideasaboutthepresentstateofmusic.Thepanelhadavarietyofpeople:bluesguitaristSuzanneThomas,hiphop/rocksingerNeticofGameRebellion,rockartistKamaraThomas,andself-describedblackrockevangelistRobFields.Theirdiscussionexaminedthefaceofblackrockmusicinthe21stcentury. Whatattendeesgotwasessentiallyagenerationalbattlebetweenablackrockartistandabusinessmanwhorocks.Thedebatebecameheatedwhenthetopicofeducatingtheyouthcameabout.SuzanneThomasbelievedshehadaresponsibilitytoreclaimtherighttorock,notjustforher,butforthegenerationstocome.Intheoppositecorner,Neticspokeofhowhedidn’tfeelobligatedtoreclaimanything,anddidn’tthinkitwasappropriatetoforceanyonetodoanything.Somewherealongtheline,Lil’Wayne’snamecameupinthe

discussion. Ifyoudon’tknow,Lil’Wayne(akaDwayneCarter)isamultimilliondollarhiphopartistwhodecidedhewantedtoventureoutartisticallyandhoarockalbum.WhileNetictalkedofhowWaynewouldwinbasedonhissenseofdrive,andnotontalent,everyoneelsesawadeeperissueresidingunderneath.Personally,IhadtodisagreewithNetic.Yes,hiphopispullinginspirationfromdifferentgenresduepartlytoOutKast,KanyeWest,andotherartists.Butonecantellagenuineinterestinvariationapartfromsomeonetryingtobankonafad.KanyemakesitplaininaverseonConsequence’s“WhateverUWant:”“NowassoonasIchangeup/Everybodyelsetrynasteptheygameup/wontthey,don’tthey,willthey,nah.” Whoistosaywhathiphopissupposedtolook,sound,orfeellike?Whoistosaywhatblackmusiccanorcannotbecome?ThisisthelessonIlearnedfromtheexperience:blackrockisR&B,soul,hiphop,pop,funk,jazz,gospel,andwhatevercomesnext.Itisuptoustoprogressivelychangeouroutlook.Andwewilldomorethanreclaimtherighttorock:wewillredefineitonourownterms.

— Lorin Williams

Williams is a student in Indiana University’s School of Journalism. In addition to serving as a member of the IU Chapter of the National Association of Black Journalists, he served several years as the Entertainment editor for Arbutus, the Indiana University yearbook.

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“21st Century Bluesman”: Suzanne Thomas

OnFriday,November13,2009,SuzanneThomaspresentedalectureentitled,“FromChoirLoftstoJukeJoints.”Asimpliedbythetitleandthenameofherband,“Suzanne&TheBluesChurch,”Thomasisadamantaboutthedesegregationofsacredandsecularmusic,astheybothbearareciprocallyseminalinfluenceuponeachother.Furthermore,ThomasfeelsthatartistswhoperformAfricanAmericansacredandsecularmusicshouldnotbebelittledfordoingsosimultaneously. Inherpresentation,Thomasexpoundeduponthelivesandexperiencesofseveralblackmusicians—namelyEddie“SonHouse”James,ReverendGaryDavis,RayCharles,SamCooke,ArethaFranklin,andherself—inordertofurtherqualifyandallowthoseattendingthelecturetomoreeasilycomprehendherargument.Inapersonalcommentaryonherinvolvementinbothsacredandsecularmusic,sheshared,“Inbeingamusician,I’vewrittensomesongsthatI’llprobablyburnfor!”whichshesaysprobablycan’tevenbeplayedontheradio,“butontheotherhand,Ihavewrittensomegospel,”whichshedefinesasundeniably“straightoutofthechurch.” RegardingRayCharles,shecommentedthat,“Youcanhearthe

influence[ofthechurch]inhismusicalot,especially,youknow,whenit’sreallyjumping…That’sallgospel!”Shewentontosaythatmanygenresarepresentedassomeothersortofsoulfulmusic(i.e.,jazz,“countryblues”),butallfindtheirtruefoundationsingospelmusic. ThelecturewaslargelyattendedbystudentsfromDr.MelloneeBurnim’s“JukeJointtoChoirLoft”class,whereintheclassengagedindiscourseregardingtheroleofthebodyinAfricanAmericansacredandsecularmusic.Inrelayingherownencounterswithobjectificationwithinthemusicindustry,Thomasstated,“Wheneveramanwouldcomeforanaudition,peoplewouldassumehecouldplay,butwhenIcamein,thefirstquestiontheyaskedwas‘Howdoesshelook?’” Throughouthercareer,Thomashasoftenbeenconfrontedbytheexpectationuponwomentoachievefamebycompromisingmusicalexcellenceforsexappeal.EveninanauditionforpopularartistBeyoncéKnowles,Thomasstatedthatshewaspejorativelyregardedasa“realmusician,”andwasthusrejectedduetothepossibilitythather“chops”(guitarplaying)couldhavedeflectedattentionfromthemainattraction. Withoutregardtothemanyobstacleswhichhaveoftenconfrontedher,Thomascontinuestoutilizemusicashervehicleforexpression.Shecallsherselfa“21stcenturybluesman,”inthatshedoesn’tjustplayher“daddy’sblues;”rather,hermusicbearsrelevancetothetrialsandissuesthatface21stcentury

Americans.WhileThomasplaystheblues,shesharedthathermusichasoftenbeendescribedashavinghintsofrockinfluence,towhichsheresponds,“Whywouldn’tit,sincerockcamefromtheblues?” Fromtheinstrumentalcompositionofherband—whichincludesaHammondB3organ,guitar,andsometimesapiano—tothepresentationofthislecture,Thomasservesasaperpetuatorofcultureandaneducatorwithintheblackcommunity.Byprovidingthelectureattendeeswithfurtherinsightintoherexperiencesincrossingandcombininggenre-basedbarriers,sheencourageseveryonetolookatmusichistoricallyinordertounderstanditsroots,andtotaketheinitiativetodeterminewhatwewillteachtofuturegenerations.

—MelodyBarham

Barham is majoring in Ethnomusicology and African American and African Diaspora Studies at Indiana University.

Reclaiming the Right to Rock – Student Coverage

15

Oct. 19-Nov. 20, 2009• Exhibit-Reclaiming the Right to Rock: Black Experiences in Rock Music

Friday, Nov. 6, 2009• FilmScreeningofWhite Lies, Black Sheep,directedbyJamesSpooner

Wednesday, Nov. 11, 2009• FilmScreeningofPassing StrangefollowedbyQ&AwithStew

Thursday, Nov. 12, 2009• PresentationbyStewonhisBroadwaymusicalPassing Strange

• Dinner/DiscussionwithKandiaCrazyHorseandKamaraThomas

• Workshop/DemonstrationonNegrospiritualsbyLindaTillery

• Lecture/WorkshopbyIkeWillis

Friday, Nov. 13, 2009• LecturebySuzanneThomastoProfessorMelloneeBurnim’sclass “FromJukeJointtoChoirLoft”

• LuncheonTalkSeries,“WhoAreAsianPacificAmericans?” featuringSuzanneThomas

• FilmscreeningofAfro-PunkfollowedbyQ&Asessionwithdirector andco-producerJamesSpooner

Saturday, Nov. 14, 2009• UnionBoardConcertfeaturingIUSoulRevue,Suzanne&TheBlues Church,andTamar-kali

Foramoredetaileddescriptionoftheseevents,visithttp://www.indiana.edu/~aaamc/br/relatedevents.html

ConferenceRelated Events:

Conference Sponsors and Collaborators:

NewFrontiersProgram,Office

oftheViceProvostforResearch,

OfficeoftheProvost,Themester@

TheCollegeofArtsandSciences

Program,IndianaMemorialUnion

Board;Depts.ofTheatreandDrama,

FolkloreandEthnomusicology,

Telecommunications,GenderStudies,

CommunicationandCulture,African

AmericanandAfricanDiaspora

Studies;Neal-MarshallBlackCulture

Center,BlackFilmCenter/Archive,

HuttonHonorsCollege,Wells

ScholarsProgram,CityLights&

UndergroundExperimentalFilm

Series,FosterInternationalLiving-

LearningCenter,CollinsLiving-

LearningCenter,IUAsianCulture

Center,AsianAmericanStudies

Program,AfricanAmericanArts

Institute,AlphaPhiAlphaFraternity,

Inc.–GammaEtaChapter,Vance

MusicCenter,OfficeforWomen’s

Affairs,LatinoStudiesProgram,

SchoolofJournalism,JacobsSchool

ofMusic

JamesSpooner, directorandco-producerofAfro-Punk.PhotobyMikeLee.

16

PriortothestartoftheAAAMC’sconference,ourmoderatorshadanopportunitytointerviewtwelveofourpanelists.Althoughspaceprohibitsourpublicationofalltwelveinterviews,whatfollowsareexcerptsfromthosewithStew,IkeWillis,EarlDouglas,Jr.,andTamar-kali. AndyHollindenconductedtheinterviewswithIkeWillisandStewonNov.12,2009.Hollindenteachescoursesonthehistoryofblues,rock,FrankZappa,andthemusicofJimiHendrixatIU’sJacobsSchoolofMusic.Inadditiontohisteachingduties,Hollindencomposesandproducesmusicforvideosandhasperformedandrecordedwithnumerousrockbands.HollindenhasalsowrittenandproducedsevenCDsofhisownmusic,includinghis2008release,Grieve for the Living. ProfessorReebeeGarofaloconductedinterviewswithEarlDouglas,Jr.andTamar-kalionNov.13and14.Since1978,GarofalohastaughtatUMassBoston,whereheisaffiliatedwiththeCollegeofPublicandCommunityServiceandtheAmericanStudiesProgram.Hehaswrittennumerousarticlesoncopyright,digitaldownloading,racism,censorship,thepoliticalusesofmusic,andtheglobalizationofthemusicindustryforpopularaswellasscholarlypublicationsandhaslecturedinternationallyonabroadrangeofsubjectsrelatingtotheoperationsofthemusicindustry.HismostrecentbookisRockin’ Out: Popular Music in the USA(4thed.,2008). Forthoseinterestedinhearingmorefromourpanelists,thecompletetranscriptsandvideosforalltwelveinterviewsareavailableattheAAAMC.Please,contactourstaffformoredetails.

In Their Own Words:

on

e-o

n-o

ne

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Stew is the founder of the band The Negro Problem and co-writer, composer, and performer for the Tony award-winning Broadway musical PassingStrange. In this interview, Stew talked at length about growing up in Los Angeles in the 1960s and ’70s, his early influences from listening to British Invasion rock groups and American R&B on the radio, and his own formative experiences as a rock musician.

Andy Hollinden (AH): Howhasrockmusicaffectedyour perceptionsasamusicianandyourtastesinmusic?

Stew (S):Well,inmyplayPassing Strange,thecharacter whowecallYouthisablackrockmusician.The firstthinganywhereclosetooppressionhe experiencesaboutthemusichemakesisfromhis family.Therearenowhitepeoplethatapproachthis blackmanandsay,“Youcan’tplayrockmusic.”It isactuallyhisfamily.Itishiscommunity.Itisthe churchpeople,andhesortoffeelslike,“Heywait! Icanclaimthis.Thisismineactually.”Sohis confusion,andtothisdaymyconfusion,is“whatis therelationshipbetweenthemusicblackrock musiciansaremakingandtheircommunity?”Thatis theinterestingrelationship.

Tome,ifthereisanykindofexclusionperceivedamong blackrockmusicians,iftheyarenotgettingtheirdue, theycan’treallygotowhitepeoplewiththisissue. Whitepeoplesinglehandedlykeptbluesmusicians alivefromthe’60stothe’70suntilnow.Theblack communitywasnotinthataudience.Theywerenot supportingbluesmusic.Thereissomethingwithinthe blackcommunitythatsomehowdoesnotallowitto embraceblackrockmusicandthattomeisreallythe

onlyquestion.Icanguessthequestionthiswhole conferenceshouldbeabout.Ifwearetalkingabout reclaimingtherighttorock,itisnotaboutthe musiciansreclaimingit.Wehavealwayshadtheright. Whenistheaudience,theblackaudience,goingto reclaimtherighttoappreciaterock?Andwhydon’t they?Isitaclassthing?Irememberblackpeoplebeing ashamedofblues,forinstance.Irememberaskingmy grandmotheraboutbluesanditwassortoflikeit waspunkrock.Blueswaslikethepunkrockofher day.Thosewerethebadboys.Theydidnotgoto church.Theycameintotownonweekends.They playedjukejoints.Theymessedaroundwithsome girlsandthentheyleftandtheydranktoomuch.And thewayshedescribedthem,Iwaslike,“Ohyeah, thatislikepunkrock.”ItsoundedliketheSexPistols werecomingtotown,onlyitwassomebluescat. Sothequestionisreally:Whatisupwiththeblack community?Whatisupwithrockmusic?Whyare theynotacceptingit?

AH: Whatarethefactorsthatyouthinkhaveledtothis situation?Isitbecausetheindustryguideditthere? Ormaybetheblackcommunityjustlostinterest?

S: Whenitcomestomusic,Idon’tthinkyoucanblame anybodyforperceptionissues.Itallcomesdownto art,artist,andaudience,especiallyinthesetimes.In the’60sand’70s,Idon’tthinktherewasanysort ofbigbrotherthatwasframingblackrockmusicin anyparticularwaytomakeblackpeoplenotbeinto it.Thereissomethingaboutthemusicandthe communitythatforsomereasondoesn’tmesh.And Ithinktherearetonsofreasons.Ithinkonething

Stew

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wehavetoaddressisthattheblackcommunitydoes haveveryseriouslydeep,conservativeaspects.I amnottalkingaboutpoliticallyconservative,Imean conservative.Imeandressingfordinnerconservative. YouknowwhatImean?Ihadagrandmotherwho likedyoutodressfordinner.ThatisnotRepublican. Thatisconservative.Yourhairhasgottoberight.If youaregoingtochurch,youarenotwearingthat. Andtheshirtyouwearandthehairyouhavegot andthecaryouareinandallthesekindofvalues— youknowblackpeopleareconservative.Idon’tcareif theyvoteDemocratic.

AH: Andhowwouldthisaffecttheperceptionofmusicin themusicindustry?

S: In1967maybeyouarebusytryingtobeupwardly mobileandnottodrawattentiontoyourself.Then youhaveaguythatlookslikeJimiHendrixand soundslikeJimiHendrix.Heissortofliketheweird cousinwhoyoukindofhopenobodyactually associatesyouwith,right?Nevermindthatheisa genius.ButHendrixandpeoplelikeHendrix—black ex-patriotjazzmusicians—wenttoEurope.Hendrix hadtogotoEnglandinordertogetappreciated. Thereissomethingaboutaguylikehimwhoisway outofhistime,Iguess,butinthesameway completelyrootedinblues. Ithinkfortheupwardlymobilebutconservative blackperson,theylookathimasdrawingtoomuch attentiontohimself—theverysamereasonwhyhip hop[isrejectedby]theblackmiddleclass community.Iwasjusttalkingtoastudenthere whoisworkinginthisareaandwhosaidbecause ofguyslikeJay-Z,hiphopisbecomingacceptable intheblackmiddleclassbecauseherepresents upwardlymobilecapitalistvalues.Butthehiphop ofthe’80sandthe’90sismoreradical,moreghetto- oriented.Blackmiddleclasspeopledidnotlikethat music.SoIamsayingintheblackcommunitythereis adeeplyconservativestreakthatprobablygrewout ofthisideaof“Let’snotdistractfromtheissue.We justwanttoownhomes,sendourkidstocollege,and belikeeverybodyelseanddon’tmaketoomuch noise.”Andthentherearethenoisemakersoverthere thataresaying,“No,thereissomethingelsegoingon.”

AH: Myexperience,andIknowyouarefromthesame timeperiod,wasinbeingfromdinkytown,southern Indiana.MyperceptionofJimiHendrix,seeingaguy thatfreakywhoconservativepeopledidnotlike,was “Thisisthecoolestguyintheworld.”

S: Exactly.Ofcourse,ofcourse.

AH: Doyouthinkthisispartlywhyheisacceptedmore bythewhiteaudiencethantheblackaudience?That whitepeoplelookedathimandwerelike,“Ohmy God,thefreakofthisguy...”Yousaiditwaspartly [duetohis]music,butIwouldliketothink[itwas]

partlyhisgenius.

S: Yes,butIthinkthereisthisoddthingthathappens withraceandcultureinAmericawheresometimes anotherculturecanseesomethingthattheculture thatcreatedthismusiccannotsee.AndIthinkthere issomethingverycompellingandinterestingabout thewaywhiteaudiencesembracetheblues,for instance.Particularlythebluesresurgenceofthe late1950sand’60s,whensomeofthese[musicians] weretouringeverywhere.[Promoters]foundthese guyssittingarounddownSouthandsuddenlyput themontheroad,andthisinfluencedBritish music—theblues-basedBritishrockmusic.Butthere issomethingverycompelling[aboutthefactthat] thewhitecommunitydidthat.Youcouldwritebooks galoreaboutthat,thepsychologicalaspects….The factofthematteristheblackcommunitydidnotsay, “Hey,thesebluesguysaretreasures.Let’ssupport themtokeepthemalive.”Quitetheopposite,in fact—theyseparatedthemselvesfromthem.They said,“IliveinChicago,IliveinNewYork.Idon’t liveinGeorgia.Idon’thaveanythingtodowith that.Thatismygrandfather.Ihavenothingto dowiththatworldanymore.Thatisunsophisticated, backwards.”Backwardswasabigwordbackthen— “backwards,unsophisticatedmusicthatIwillhave nothingtodowithit.”

AH: Nowyoumentionedthatoneracecanmake Americansappreciatethingsabouttheotherraceina waythatisjustphenomenal.Wouldyousaythesame thingcouldbeappliedatagloballevelto[theway] peopleinEurope,forexample,lookatAmericans?

S: Oh,thereisnoquestion.Myplay,Passing Strange, dealswiththatalot.Theleadinthisplaygoes toAmsterdamandBerlinandtoagreatextenthegets objectifiedbythepeoplebecausehebecomesthis symbol,thisthingthattheyarecompletelyfascinated with.ThisisstilltheWildWestforalotofEuropeans, andineverythingthatthosetwowordsconnote.It isstillfantasylandforalotofthem.Andquite frankly,asmuchasitsuckstobeobjectified,thereare alsoadvantagesifyouareanartisttryingtofillaclub inParisandyouareajazzmusicianfromNewYork.

Wearealwayslookingatartandgoing,“Hmm,what doesthistellmeaboutthepersonwhomadeit? Whatdoesittellmeaboutthatworld?”Soalotof itisanthropologicaltobeginwith,buttomethereis areally,reallyhealthyaspecttothis.Itiscuriosity.To me,Americansarenotcuriousenough.ThethingI lovemostaboutEuropeansisthattheyarecurious. Theywanttoknowwherestuffcomesfromand whyitsoundslikethis.Sothatiswhytheypackclubs tocapacitywhenablackmusicianplaysthere.[That samemusician]maynotbeabletodrawthirtypeople inNewYork.HewillpackaclubinParisbecausethey wanttoknowabouthis[music]andwhereitcomes from.

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AH: SoifIamhearingyoucorrectly,ifyoucantakerace issuesoffthetable,thenthiscuriosityisfreed?

S: Absolutelyyes.Ithinkforme,thebasisofeverything thatIdoisbecauseIamfascinatedbymusic.Iam excitedbyitandIwanttoknowmoreaboutit…. WhenabandlikePublicEnemy(Ispokewith ChuckDaboutthis)cametoParisorBerlin,they hadguysquotingtheirlyricsbacktothemand analyzingtheirlyricsandaskingthemwhattheywere talkingabout.And[PublicEnemy]waslike,“The New York Timesneverdidthatforus.TheWashington Postneveraskeduswhatourlyricsactuallymeantor werereferencing.Theyneverreallyaskedustotalk aboutwhatwewere[tryingtosay].Instead,theyjust threwthislabelonusandsaid,‘Oh,theyare incendiary.’[InEurope]theyactuallyaskedusto talkaboutourlyricsatpressconferences.”Youknow IamnotglorifyingEurope—IlivethereandEurope hastonsofterribleaspects—butthereisthiskindof curiosity,thisculturalcuriositythatishealthyto me.Andthatiswhythousandsofartistseveryweek arerunningfromNewYorktoBerlintolive,notjust becausetherentsarecheap,butbecausetheytake cultureseriously.Theyjustdo.

Later in the interview, Stew shared some of his memories and thoughts about Jimi Hendrix.

S: IrememberwhenIwasaboutthirty-twoyearsold, theafternoonwhereIactuallyrealizedthetotalityof thefactthatHendrixwasblack.OfcourseIalways knewhewasablackman,butIwalkedintoafriend’s houseonceandthisliveHendrixbootlegwasonand hewassingingthisbluestuneandthenplaying.And ithitmeinthatmoment.Wow,thiswaslike1967or 1968,andthisguywaslookingthewayhelooked, singingthewayhewassinging,andplayingtheway hewas.

AndwhenIsay“Irealizedhewasblack,”Irealized hisblacknessinthecontextoftheworld.Notjust America,butintheworld.Likewhathemeantin thatmomentandthetotalityofit.Anditstunnedme, becauseformehewasjustalwaysJimiHendrix. Hewasjustthisguythatwasalwaysinmylife.But whenIrealizedracially,politically,sociologically,and psychologicallywhathemeant,itwassopowerful anditwaskindofamadness.Ithought,“MyGod, whatmusthavebeenonthatguy’sshoulders?”You knowhehadBlackPantherscallinghimthis,hehad Rolling StonecallinghimanelectricUncleTom. Therewerejustallthesepeoplewhowerejealousand hatingonhimbecausetheBritshaddiscovered him.Itwasoverwhelmingwhathemusthavebeen goingthrough.Butagain,Ithinkthatishowmusic operates.Idon’tthinkwelookatrace.Ireallydon’t thinkwedo.Ithinkwelookatwhatiscompellingto us,especiallyteenagers.

Stew also discussed the reception of Passing Strange and its influence on black artists and audiences.

AH: Canyoutalkalittlebitabouthowyouhavebeen perceived,bothbytheblackaudienceandthewhite audience?

S: WithPassing Strangewedidthreeruns.Wedidarun inBerkeley,wedidaruninpublictheaterinNew York,andwedidarunonBroadway.Andafterdoing theplay,therewerealotofblackpeopleoutthere whosaid,“Thankyou.Thankyouformakingaplay aboutthiskid’sjourneyoutoftheincuriousblack middleclassworldandintothelargerworld.And thankyouforshowingwhatIactuallylived.”Iget e-mailseveryweek.Igetpeoplecominguptome allthetimesaying,“Thisisourstorythatheretofore hadneverreallybeentold.”...Thereareblackmiddle classartistsouttherewhoarestruggling.Theyarenot strugglingagainstsomekindofblanketofwhite racism,buttheyarestrugglingwithintheirown communitytobeindividuals.

AH: WithPassing Strange,myguesswouldbethatyouare educatingmorelistenersthanmusicians.Doesthis makesense?

S: Yes,Ihopeyouareright.Iwouldliketothinkthat peoplewillseethisandsay,“Ididnotknowthatkid existed.Ididnotknowthattherewereblack individualswhohadtheseissuesandhadthesekind ofobsessionsandwereonthisparticularpathof beinganartist,”whichishardenoughanywayin America,butdefinitelyharderinalotofwaysifyou areablackmantryingtodoitorablackwoman tryingtodoit,mostdefinitely.Soyes,Ihopeweare educatingnon-musiciansaswell.Itjustsohappens thattheartistsaretheoneswhoarereallycheering afterthismoviebecausetheyfeellikefinally,“Yeah, somebodyistellingmystory.”

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In the 1970s and ’80s, Willis performed as a lead singer and rhythm guitarist for Frank Zappa, recording records such as Joe’sGarage,TinselTownRebellion, and YouAreWhatYouIs. Willis also played the title character and narrator in Zappa’s Thing-Fish. Today, Willis continues to perform with Zappa tribute bands around the world.

Andy Hollinden (AH): Wasthereaperceptionasyougrew upandweredoingyourfirstgigs,thattherock’n’roll musictheyhadatthetimewaswhitemusicorblack music?Wasthatevensomethingpeopleconsidered?

Ike Willis (IW):Well,no.Ithinkthatdeveloped.Ithink thatcamealongasrock’n’rollbecamemorepopular andmorelucrative,becausewhenIwasakidrock’n’ rollwasChuckBerryandBuddyHollyatthesame time,butmostlyrock’n’rollwasChuckBerry,Little Richard,GuitarSlim,andIkeTurner.

AndthentheBeatlescamealongandElviswasthere. Thatwaskindofrock’n’roll,butitwasadifferent thing.UntiltheBeatles,remember,rock’n’rollwas makingthetransitionfromdoo-wopwherethere weren’tbands.Therewerefourorfiveguyssingingand performing,buttheywerebasicallywhatIguesstoday wouldbecalled“producergroups.”Somebodyelse wrotethesongs,likeCaroleKingandGerryGoffinor LeiberandKrebs.Thoseguyswouldwritethesongs andthenthedoo-wopgroupswouldperformthem. WithChuckBerryandB.B.King,andthenAlbert King,LittleRichard,JerryLeeLewis,andthoseguys, theywereperformingtheirstuffandthebackground guysweretherebutkindofnotthere.Butwhenthe Beatlescamealong,thiswasaband:

twoguitars,bass,anddrums,andtheywere performingtheirownmusicandtheywereplaying theirowninstrumentslive.Forme,thiswasit.This wastheGodhead.Thiswasphenomenal.Thatiswhat changeditforme.Thatiswhatchangeditforeverybody. Suddenly,everybodywantedtohaveaband,toactually physicallyplayyourownmaterial. Andyouareplayingthroughamplifiers.Itislike thesebigblackboxeswithspeakersinthemand youcouldactuallyplayyourownstuff.This,forme, wastransformational.Andsothatiswhenrock’n’ rollbecamerock.

After discussing how he was considered an oddball within his own community, despite the heavy influence of black artists such as Muddy Waters and Chuck Berry on the Beatles, Willis moved on to challenge the American association of rock with white musicians in general.

AH: Canyouspeakalittlebitaboutthechanging perceptionofrockmusicintheblackcommunityand thisperceptionofitbeingwhitemusic?

IW: Yes,Ithinkthat’skindoftragic.Ontheotherhand, it’sfunnythatyoumentionthis,becauseinthe blackcommunityIbecameevenmoreofanoddball astheyearswenton.Thefactoftheimagesandthe politicsbeingperpetratedontelevision,radio, commercialsandmagazinesisthatrock’n’roll isbecomingmoreandmoreperceivedintheblack communityasawhitething.We’retalkingabout historybeinglostintheblackcommunityand awarenessbeinglostthatthisissomethingthatisa verybig,bigpartoftheblackexperienceinAmerica.

Ike Willis

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ThisstartswithMississippiDeltablues,actually. Thisstartswithslavery,forGod’ssake.Thetwo-four backbeat,therhythmicalunderpinnings,ifyouwill, ofrock’n’roll,thisisveryimportant.Thechord structures,thecall-responsething,thewholebuilding blocksofrock’n’roll,theystartedintheblack communityaspartoftheAmericanblackexperience. AndhereIamtryingtojustifymyexistenceinthe blackcommunitywhenIwouldshowupwithmy guitarandmyampandmyband.Peopleweregoing “Oh,that’swhiteboystuff.”Andit’slike,“Waita minute.No,no,youdon’tgetit.RememberChuck Berry,B.B.King,LittleRichard?Thesearenotwhite boys.”Andyes,thatwasprettyfrustrating.Toa certainextentitisstillfrustrating,becausenowwith theadventofhiphopandrapandstufflikethat, it’sevenworse.Itisactuallyworsenowbecause politics,business,andeconomicsonbothsideskeep thechasm.

AH: MyassumptionisthatthisisanAmerican phenomenon.Canyoutalkaboutotherplacesinthe worldandhowrockmusicisperceivedinrelationto race?

IW: Well,itisdifferentinotherpartsoftheworld.In Europe,Idon’thavethisproblem.Actually,anywhere elseintheworldIdon’thavethisproblem.Thething is,wheneverIplayinEuropeorEasternEuropeorthe MiddleEastorSouthAmerica,it’slikeeverybody comesout.Musicismusic,rock’n’rollisrock’n’ roll,andthere’sahugeappetiteforit.Theentire worldwantsasmuchofitaspossibleandit’savery Americanphenomenon.Ithastransformedcultures. ItispartofwhytheBerlinWallcamedown.Itisvery, verylargeinotherpartsoftheworld. TheEuropeans,okay,theyhavebeenaroundalot longer.Theyappreciatethemusic.Asyouknow,I’ve beenplayingFrankZappa’smusicforoverthirty yearsnow.I’verunintopeople,forexample,from Zappanale.Thesepeoplehavebeenrunningthis festivalforthelasttwentyyears.Thesearethesame peoplewhowhentheywerekidshadtosneakaround incandlelitbasementsandsecretlylistentoFrank Zappa’smusic,otherwisetheyweregoingtobe throwninjailbecausetheywerefromEast Germany—theSovietBloc.AndVáclavHavelwas throwninjailforlisteningtoFrankZappa’smusic. Nowhe’sthepresidentofCzechoslovakia.Youcould actuallybeputtodeathorinjailforlisteningtorock ’n’roll.

Inothercountriestheyappreciatethehistorymoreand appreciatetheartistsmoreforjustwhotheyareandthe music.TheEuropeanslovethemusic.Theyareintothe music.Theyappreciatethehistoryofit.Theyactually paymoreattentiontothehistoryoftheartists,where theycamefrom,theirperformances,theircompositions, everything.Andit’sliketheydon’tseeit.Thereareno black/whitemusiciansthere.No“Thisisablackrock’n’

rollperson,”or“Thisisawhiterock’n’rollperson.”And thereisnodistinctionmadeasfarasIamconcerned. Ihavebeentravelingbackandforthandplayingand performinginEuropeandtherestoftheworldsince Iwastwentyyearsold.Forme,itwaslikeatotalbreath offreshair.Formeitwasamazing.Itwasawonderful thing.Ilovedit.

Towards the end of the interview, Hollinden and Willis discussed the loss of the “roll” from rock music as white musicians began to dominate the industry.

AH: Thehistoryofrock’n’rollissuchthataguylikeAlan Freedcameout,[whowas]awhiteDJwhowantedto playblackmusiconradiostationssothatwhitekids couldhearit,buthecalleditrock’n’rollasabitofa disguise,abitofasubterfuge.Wouldyousaythat“rock” isjusttakingitonestepfurthertomakeitevenmore white?Tojustwashitmoreandgettheblacknesseven furtherout?

IW: Yes,yes.Iagree.Rockisbecoming,toitsdetriment, moreofawhitethingwithouttheacknowledgement oftheblackpartofit.Itisinconceivabletomethat itshouldbethatway.Idon’tlikeit.Idon’tthink thoseconditionsshouldexistinthisdayandage, especiallysincethisis,atleastfromwhattheytellme, thetwenty-firstcentury.Thatshouldn’tbethecase, firstofall,withmusic—period.Butintheparticular casewithwhatisknownasrock’n’rollmusic,theend “roll”shouldnotbetakenandseparatedfromthe “rock”part,becausetheyareequallyasimportant. Theyareequallyasviableandalsotheyareequallyas necessarytothesurvivalandtheevolutionofthis music.

AH: Thatiswhatweareafter,myman.Youtalkaboutthe rockseparatingtherockfromtheroll.Ithinkwhen peopletalkabouttherocktheywillsay,“Manthat rocks,”or“Thisthingrocks.”Howmanypeopleknow whatthatmeans?Inyourownterms,whatisthe “roll”?

IW: Therollisthevisceralrhythmicalaspectofit.Okay, thereisthataggressivepart,butthere’salsothefun, bouncy,rhythmical,soulfulpart.Therollpartputs edgesonthosecorners.YouseewhatIamsaying? Itsoftenstheblowabittomakeitmoreenjoyable andfun.Therollpartisthefunaspectofit.Thatis whythereshouldalwaysberock’n’roll,because withouttherollparthowcanyourock?

AH: Itleadstoheadbanging.

IW: Thatjustevolvesintoheadbanging,mindless headbangingandmoshingandthrowingthings.

AH: Fistpumping.

IW: Andfistpumpingandstufflikethat.Whocantell?

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Earl Douglas, Jr. is currently Executive Director of the Black Rock Coalition (BRC) and has played an integral role in the organization since 1988. Furthermore, he has served as one of its most active historians and photographers. In conjunction with the BRC’s 25th Anniversary, Douglas recently published BlackRock,Volume1(Square 2010), which contains over 100-pages of full-color photos documenting the role of black performers in rock music.

Reebee Garofalo (RG):Whyisitthatthisterm“black rock”needsacoalition?

Earl Douglas, Jr. (ED): Itwasreallymoreofarallying pointforeveryonebecausethereweresomanyartists thatfeltalone.WhenIwasjustgettingaroundand startingintheCoalition,itwasliketherewasJon Butcher,JoanArmatrading—justahandfulof guys,buttheyfeltliketheywerescatteredandoutin thewildernessalittlebitandwejustthought,“Why nothavearallyingpointforeveryone?”Forme, duringthefirstcoupleyearsthosemeetingswere basicallygripingsessions.Itwasaplacetovent.Itwas like,“Whycan’tIgetbooked?HowcanIgetintoa betterpositiontohaveadeal?”Itwasreallymore like,“Let’shaveaunifiedfrontwherewecanpresent showstogether.Asopposedtobeingonascattered billwithabunchofotherbandsofdifferentgenres, whydon’twejustformourowngenreandpresent itasapackage?”Sothatisoneofthereasonswhythe Coalitionwasreallynecessary.

Itwasalsokindofareclamation,wherewesaw[rock] almostasabirthright.Rock’n’rollhadblackroots.It

hadrootsintheblues.TheearlypioneerswereChuck BerryandLittleRichardandFatsDomino,sowefelt like,“Whynotjustreclaimit?”Itwasalmostapolitical statementuntoitself.“We’reablackrockband.We playrockmusic.”Atthetime,thatwasaveryboldthing, eventhoughbackin’85,’86,thebiggestnamesin entertainmentwereallbasicallyblack.YouhadEddie Murphyinthemovies.YouhadLionelRitchieand WhitneyHoustoninpop.YouhadPrince,whowas basicallydoingrock’n’roll.Noonewasreallycoming outandsaying,“Whydon’tweputhiminthesame pantheonasBruceSpringsteen?”but[Prince]wasarock star.Hislivepresentationwasasmuchofarockshowas thatofanybodyelseatthetime.

RG: Towhatextentdoyouthinkyourpoliticalstatement waseffective?Howsuccessfulwereyouinsayingrock hadblackroots?

ED: Tome,LivingColourwaslikemyJackieRobinson. Iwasseventeen,abouttoturneighteen,whenVivid cameout.Suddenlyitwaslike,“Hey,thisispossible. Thisisverydoable.”Andprettymucheverywaveof blackartistsnoweitheropenlyacknowledgesorowes adebttothem,becausetheyreallykickeddownthat doorandtheysoldrecordsontopofit.Vividsoldtwo millioncopies.Theyhadahitsingleanditwasjust throughsheerperseverance.PeopleforgetVividcame outinMarchorAprilof’88,and“CultofPersonality” cameoutattheendoftheyear.Soitwassixmonths ofjustrelentlesstouring,openingfortheGodfathers, anybodyandanyone,andthen[theyopenedforthe Stones]anditjustreallytookoff.SoIthinkitjustgave

Earl Douglas, Jr.

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alotofhopetopeople.Itjustgavethemaforumtobe veryopenaboutbeingablackrockbandorbeinga blackrockmusician.

RG: Whatwastheworkyouweredoingatthistimethat madetheBRCseemlikeaneffectiveorganizationfor you?

ED: InitiallyIwasjustasupporter.Weusedtohaveour meetingsupatFrankSilvera’s.Itwaslikethisfamous theaterworkshop.Hehadanopenspaceandwe wouldmeettherelikeonceamonthonaSaturday. I’llneverforgetmyfirstmeetingthatIwentto,taking theA-TrainuptoHarlemforthefirsttimeandIgot outandsuddenlyguysweretryingtosellmestuff. IwalkeddownthestreetandAlSharptonwasleading aprotestinfrontoftheKoreandeliandIwalkinto thisroomofguyswhothoughtlikeme,andtalked likeme,andhadthesamemusicalmindsetasme.It wasveryunifying.AndIkeptattendingand justlistened.Again,alotofthemeetingsweremore freewheeling.Theywerejustaddressingconcerns— themusicindustry,thingsthatwerehappeninginthe industry.Thingslikewhatwashappeninginradio, favoriterecordswewerelisteningto,etc. Andthenwewouldalwayshaveameetingafterthe meeting.We’dgodownstairsandbasicallynooneleft. Wewouldstandon125thStreetandeverything carriedoverfromthemeeting.Theneveryonewould talkaboutwhatevershowswerehappeningthatnight, soitbecamethisunifyingthing.Wewouldalltravel inpacksbecausewewouldgotodinner,andoneguy wouldhaveasetat8:00,anotherguywouldhaveaset at9:30,anotherguywouldhaveasetat10:30.And everyoneendedupatCB’sattheendofthenight, becauseitalwaysranlate,andsomeonewasalways playingthere.

Later in the interview, Douglas discussed his role in the BRC as the Director of Public Concerns and the record industry’s reception of rock by black artists.

RG: Youwentfrombeingthevolunteerhandingout leafletsafterthemeetingstobecomingtheExecutive Directoroftheorganization.Atwhatpointdidyou becomeExecutiveDirectorandhowdidyouendup inthatposition?

ED: Itwasagradualprocess.Iwenttoallthemeetings andthenwithinayearafterIjoinedtheorganization, Igotintoradio.IstartedasaninternatWNEW, whichwasalegendaryrockstation,soIwaskindof

inthebellyofthisverybigbeastandsawthebusiness inadifferentway.Iwasbringingthatallbacktowhat wasgoingonwithintheBRC.Iwaslike,“Hey,this iswhat’sgoingon,”andIwaslearningthedynamics ofhowyougotontheradio,learningthedynamicsof whatgotontheradio,andwhyitgotontheradio, andwhatthebusinesswaspromotingandwhatit wasn’tpromoting.

Iwasjustbringingthisallbacktotheorganization andinitiallyIwastheDirectorofPublicConcerns, whichwasbasicallythepoliticalarmofthe organization….[OneconcernBRCmembershadwas that]certainrecordsthatshouldfallunderthe “blackrock”umbrellaweregettingthrownintothe R&Bsection….Soitwasthingslike“Howdowe address[thiswith]therecordcompanies?”AndIwas like,“Hey,whydon’tyouputsomethingonitthatsays fileitintherocksection?”Latertheywouldslapon“File under‘rock’.”Prettysimple.

RG: Whatresponsedidyougetfromtherecord companieswhenyouweretryingtogetblackrockers underrockinsteadofR&B?

ED: Theywereinitiallykindoftakenaback.InNew YorktherewasthisbigconferencecalledtheNew MusicSeminar…I’llneverforget.Itwaseithera marketingpaneloranA&RpanelandJared Nickerson,whoIthinkwasDirectorofPublic Concernsatthetime,hewasoneoftheBRCexecs andhestoodupandheaskedthisverybeautifully framedquestion.Hesaid,“Inthe’60swhenthe Beatlesbroke,youguyswentafteranythingwitha Britishnameandsignedit.Inthe’70swhenpunk broke,anythingwithasafetypinandanattitudegot signed.Inthe’80s…”atthetimeIthinkitwasTex-

“I think if you’re a band, the avenues to get your music out are so much better now. You don’t need a record label to really distribute your record. You just need a modem and a dream.”

Participants,includingJaredNickerson,from“RapMeetsRock”performancehostedatthe1992NewMusicSeminar.

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Mex,StevieRayVaughn,TheFabulousThunderbirds, youknowthatwholesound.Hegoes,“Um,Living Coloursoldtwomillionrecordswithoutanyhelp fromyouguys.What’sthedeal?”Andyoucouldhear apindropintheroom.Everyonewaskindoftaken aback.

RG: Whatwastheanswertothat?

ED: Itwasatotaltapdance.Theironywasthemajor labelsatthetimestillstayedawayfromit.Theindies jumpedalloverit.Thereweresomegreatlabelsthat reallysupportedit:EnemyRecordsoutofLongIsland City,Gramavision,toadegreeRykoDiscswhoended upjoiningtheCoalition’sfirstcompilationrecord, The History of Our Future.Butthenwefoundout wehadournexthurdletoclimb,whichwasthe “Highlandertheory,”asDarrellMcNeil,ourDirector ofOperationscalledit,whichis“Therecanbeonly one.”SoifLivingColourascended,nooneelsewas gettingit.Therewasnorealbigsecondwave. WhenLivingColourwasonhiatus,LennyKravitz tookthatmantle,buttherewasnoLennyKravitz andLivingColour.Theyneverhappenedatthesame time....Nowit’sgreat,becauseyou’vegotGnarls Barkley,andyou’vegotTVontheRadio,andyou’ve gotSantigold,andRainMachine,andyoustillhave LivingColour,whojustmadethisincrediblerecord. Thereareallthesegreatrecordsnowthatarealloutat thesametime.

After discussing the early role of the music industry in controlling the distribution of artists, Douglas discussed the role of the Internet and prominent concert venues in connecting performers with potential audiences.

RG: TowhatextentareyoumakinguseoftheInternet andtowhatextentdoyouseethatasasolutiontothe historicaldifficultiesyou’vehadwithexistinglabels andthewaythey’reconfigured?

ED: Itisaloteasier….Suddenlyinsteadofprinting300 flyersandrunningaround,youpostitonyour website,youpostitonFacebook,youpostiton Twitter,youpostitanywhere—MySpace.Wecando acompilationrecordnowandnotevenpressit.We canjustdoitvirally.Wecandoadigitalrelease where,withtheclickofabutton,youdownloadthe entirerecord.YoucanputsamplesonyourMySpace page.Ithinkifyou’reaband,theavenuestoget yourmusicoutaresomuchbetternow.Youdon’t needarecordlabeltoreallydistributeyourrecord. Youjustneedamodemandadream.

RG: Towhatextenthasthisbecome,ordoyouthinkit

willbecome,aviablealternativeforblackrockerswho mightnotbeabletogetafairshakeatarecordlabel?

ED: Attheend,itcomesdowntothesong.Itused tobe,“Whoistheband?”You’dlookatthebandand immediately,whetheryouwantedtoornot,you’d havethesepreconceivednotionsaboutwhatitshould soundlike.Forexample,whenLivingColourwas tryingtosellcopiesofVivid,therewasaslighteffort nottoshowtheirpublicityphotos.Iremember “MiddleMan”changedmylife…Iknewpeople thatwereclosetotheband,whoweresaying,“Look atthevideoagain,andwatchitreallycarefully.”There wasaverydiscernedeffortnottoshowtheband, because[theproducers]weretryingtosellthe song. WhenyouclickonaMySpacepage,thefirstthing thatcomesonisasong.Ifthesongisgoodandyou wanttogosee[theband]play,everythingelseis almostirrelevant.Whetheryouaredark-skinned, light-skinned,tall,short,husky,thin,whatever,the initialthingis,“Wow,Ilikethesong.”

RG: Giventhesituationnow,whatarethemainchallenges facingtheBRC?

ED: Forme,justfromanorganizationalstandpoint, tryingtomarshalalltheforcestogether.Theblack rockscene—whateverthesceneis—it’sstillnot reallycentralizedyet.You’vegotus,you’vegotAfro- punk,you’vegotURBAlt,you’vegotghettometal. Youhavealloftheseorganizations,butit’snotreally centeredyet.Westillhaven’thadlikethebigrock tour.Wehaven’thadtheblackversionofLollapalooza whereyougetathree-orfour-orfive-bandpackage togetherandhavethemzigzagacrossthestage.That hasn’treallyhappenedyet.

RG: Isthatgoingtohappenandareyouguysgoingtodo it?

ED: Icannotconfirmordenytheexistenceofthat.It’s stilldifficulttoselltheBRCtopromotersand organizers.TheBRChasmadeamazingstridesinthe NewYorkscene,wherewe’regettingalook fromLincolnCenterOutofDoorsandCentralPark SummerStage.We’repartoftheconversationnow, whereasbeforeitwas,“Whatexactlyisit?”We’re gettingtheblackrockbrandstrengthenedtowhere BRCequals“goodshow.”Hey,itdoesn’tmatter who’sonthebill.Weknowit’sagoodshow.Thatis oneofthechallenges.Itiscomingaroundveryslowly butit’shappening.

25

Guitarist-songwriter-vocalist Tamar-kali entered the New York rock scene around 1993 while performing with the band Funkface. Shortly thereafter, she became the front woman for Song of Seven, another New York-based rock band. Tamar-kali’s strength as a woman in a male-dominated genre eventually led to creative conflict and compelled her toward her own expression as a songwriter and vocalist, which developed into her current eclectic musical style.

In addition to leading her diverse ensembles, 5ive Piece and the Psycho Chamber Ensemble string sextet, Tamar-kali heads her own production company, Flaming Yoni Productions, and has worked with other artists in hip hop and rock such as OutKast and Fishbone.

Reebee Garofalo (RG): SoyouwereinFunkfaceandthen SongofSeven.Howdoyoudescribethesoundand whatwasyourroleinshapingit?

Tamar-kali (TK):Basically,Ididoneyearataprivate universityandcouldnotaffordtocontinue.Butwhile Iwasthere,Imetthisbrotherthatwasreallyinto Fishbone,whichIcouldtellfromorientationday. IfeltlikehewasdoinghisbestAngeloMoore impression,soIapproachedhimeventually.There wasthisbigstandoffforawhile,andtheneventually Iwasjustlike,“What’syourdeal?”becauseweknew whatwasup,sowegottoknoweachother.Andthen whenIcamehome,westartedgoingtoshows together.Hewasinabandandhewasintroducing

metohisfriends,andjusthangingoutinthescene. Atonepointthesingerthattheywereworkingwith, Israel,endedupplayingwithBadBrainsatatime whenH.R.wasn’tanymore,sotheyneededanew singer.AndIwaslike,“Oh!Iwanttoaudition.”And basicallytheybrushedmeoffbecausetheyweren’t tryingtoauditionagirl.

Sothathappened.Iwashangingaroundthescene.I wouldjumpuponpeople’sstages,justinthat reallycommunitypunkrockway.Andthendifferent bandsonthescenewerelike,“Whydon’tyoucomeand jamwithus?”AndIendedupplayingwithFunkface, justdoingalittlefeaturedvocalistthing.Theywerelike afunkhardcoreband,kindofalongthelinesofRed HotChiliPeppers,withareallysoulfulvocalandmore aggression.TheywereintothatpointinFunkadelic’s historywhere“AliceinMyFantasies”reallyspoketo them.Sotheirmusicwaskindoflikethat,butthen ithadinfusionsofalittlebitofskaandsomeofBad Brains’reggaehardcore. Alotofstufflikethatwasgoingoninthescenewith mixinggenres,but[Funkface]hadareallybigfollowing, andIjuststartedsingingwiththemasafeatured vocalist.Andthenafterawhile,Ikindofmovedon fromthereandSongofSevenwasreadytojamwith me.Sothatwasacoolexperience.Weconsideredit post-hardcoreatthattime.ButIdefinitelyfeltthe burdenofbeingawomaninthisband.Notfromevery

Tamar-kali

26

member,butwewerehavingconflictsbasedonmy lyrics.Andasafrontperson,theruleformealways was,“IgettosaywhatIwanttosay,especiallyifwe’re sharing.”Ifyou’redoingtheriffsandI’mbringingthe melodyandlyrics,that’sit.Ifyouthinkit’swack,that’s onething,butIgottoapointwheretheyweretrying tocensormeanditcausedaseriousschismintheband andweeventuallybrokeup.

Later in the interview, Tamar-kali described the formation of the Psycho Chamber Ensemble, an all-female, six-piece string ensemble that performs arrangements of hardcore songs first performed by 5ive Piece as well as Tamar-kali’s original compositions. As one of the featured interviewee’s in JamesSpooner’s Afro-punk, she also provided commentary on the origins of the title and the use of subgenre labels within the punk scene.

TK: IdecidedIwantedtodeconstructthesongsIwas doinginthe5ivePieceandhavethembeallstrings— nopercussion,juststrings.AndIthoughtthatwas reallyhardcore,justtotakesomethree-chord,hard, aggressivesongsandarrangethemforstrings.Andso IdidthatandthenIdecidedIwantedtohavejust femaleinstrumentalists,soIdidthataswell.And basicallyitbranchedoutfromdeconstructingother piecestomecomposingspecificallyfortheproject. Andthat’showitbecameitsownproject,becauseat firstitwasalmostlikeaninstallation.Itwasalmostlike medoingacommentaryonmyart,andthenitbecame itsownproject.Andthenfromthere,Iwantedto beabletofusethestringsandnothaveitsonaked. ButIstartedwritingforpianotoo,soIwanted tobringthattogether.Ihaveaprojectcalled Pseudoacoustic,andit’sjustdifferentformatsforme toexpressmycomposition.

RG: Whatledyoutoenvisionthechamberensembleas all-female?

TK: Atthattime,Ifellupontheseotheramazingwomen andwestarteddoingshowstogether.AndIgaveus

thenameof“SisterGirls”becausewehadbeen talkingaboutRiotGirlsintermsofidentity,culture, andcolor.Oneofthewomeninthecollectiveplayed violin.ThefirsttimeIsawher,shejustreallyblewmy mind.Shemademesoemotionalinadifferentway,in awaythatstringsdoasopposedtojusthardcore aggressivemusic,andIthoughtitwassoawesome.I thinkthat’swhatreallyinspiredme,ismeetingher.She wasinthefirstincarnation.HernameisSimmie.Seeing herinrockclubsjustplayingherelectricviolin,whichis whatsheused,justreawakenedthatloveforme.AndI thinkitwasprobablyindedication—myloveformy sister—thatIjustdecidedtodoallfemales.

RG: You’reoneofthefeaturedartistsinthefilmAfro- Punk.Foryou,what’sthe“Afro”inAfro-Punk?

TK: MyfriendHoneyChildintroducedmetoJames Spooneronesummer.Shewaslike,“Iknowthisguy. He’sdoingafilmaboutblackkidsinthehardcoreand punksceneandhewantstodosomeinterviews.”Iwas like,“Allright,okay.”Andatthattimeitwasjustcalled Rock ’n’ Roll Nigger.Butasitwasbecomingapieceof somenoteand[Spooner]wasstartingtoworkwith otherpeople,itwasclearthatheneededanothertitle thatwouldallowhimtoreceivealloftheattentionhe should,asopposedtoitbeingspecificallybecauseofthe title.Thattitlewasgoingtocutoffawholeaudience.So hemadethedecisionatthattimetocallitAfro-Punk: The Rock ’n’ Roll Nigger Experience.Andthatwasthe inception.Soregarding“Afro-punk,”thetermhadbeen usedthroughouttheyearsbeforethefilm.Iusedtocall myself“bushpunk.”Youjustcomeupwiththesewords, thesewordplays,totrytoidentifyyourself.But,asit concernsthefilm,it’satitle—acreativewaytokindof hintatwhat’sgoingoninthefilm.

RG: Isitsimplyahookorareyoutryingtocapture somethingoftheAfricanAmericanexperiencewithin punk?

TK: Iguesstheissuewithlabels,eventhough“punk”isa labelitself,isthatthewholeconversationjustgetsmessy. So,Ithink“Afro-punk”isgivingyouahintastowhat thetopicisconcerningthefilm.Andobviouslythe filmisaracepiece.It’saboutthesubculturewithin subculturesandhowsomehowinAmerica, AfricanAmericansalwaysendupbeingthesubculture withinanythingthattheyparticipateinthatisnot so-calledtraditionallyortypicallyblack.Soeven withinthissubculture,whichisn’tsupposedtobeabout themainstream,youfindyourselfisolatedyetagainif youchoosetorecognizeyourblackness.

Garofalo and Tamar-kali closed the interview by discussing her acceptance by black audiences and her self-perceptions about her role as an educator.

27

RG: DidyoufindacceptanceinthebroaderAfrican Americancommunity?

TK: Absolutelynot.EversinceIwasyoung,Iwas constantlytoldthatIbehaved“white,”andIknow that’sarecurringthemeinthefilm.AndIguessthat’s whatwe’rereclaiming.We’rereclaimingtherightto bewhoweare.It’ssodeep,though,becauseitis specificallythelackofinformationoutthereabout therootsofrock’n’rollthatcreatesthisstigmain theblackcommunity.Soitisrelateddirectly,definitely, becausepeopledon’tseeitasblack.Youcouldsay“Bo Diddley,”“ChuckBerry,”but[thosenames]mightmean nothingtothem.Soitdoesrelatedirectlytothatlackof historicalinformationandreference.

Andthentoo,itrelatestodeep-seatedtrauma, psychologicaltrauma,inourcommunityabout branchingout,becauseformanygenerationsthat couldgetyoukilled.Andwehavethisfearinourselves that’sbeenpasseddownfrommothertochildrento keepyourchildrensafe.Youcouldn’tbranchout.When youthinkaboutEmmettTill,allofthesesituations,and peopledon’trealizethatitcorrelates,butit’sadeeppart ofourpsycheasacommunity,andthat’spartofit.

Andthenthere’sthewholeclassthing.WhenI wantedtoripmyjeans,mymotherlookedatmelike, “Areyoucrazy?Youwanttoripyourjeans?I’m working,I’mkillingmyselftogetyouthroughschool, toputclothesonyourback,andyouwanttodestroy theclothesI’mbuyingforyou?”Sothat’sthewhole classiceconomicspart,buttherearejustallofthese variablesthatmakeitaveryoddchoice.Andeven thoughthegenerationsbeforeuswerefightingfor ourrighttobefree,theyhaveveryclear-cutideasof whatthatfreedomshouldlooklike.SoIthinkthat’s theschisminthecommunityintermsofhowpeople reactedtome.

Idohavetosaythatsomeofitdidplayintothe homophobicandmisogynisttendenciesinthe communityaswell.Alotoftimespeoplehaveassumed I’mqueerbecauseI’mpunkrock,becausetheydidn’t haveareferencetopunkrock.Andit’slike,“Okay,I don’tknowwhatyouare,soifIdon’tknowwhatyou are,youmustbegay.”That’sathread.Andthenthere werejusttimeswhere,becauseofmychoicestohavea shavedheadandtowearcombatboots,Iwasmetwith alotofantagonismfrommen.TheyfeltlikeIwas rejectingthemandthatIwasalesbianseparatist.Iused tohavethispinthatsaid“BlackFeminismLives.”Soit justcanbeveryincendiary,justmakingthechoicetobe yourownperson.Notjustasablackperson,buttobe yourownpersonasablackwoman,becausesomehow thatisyourejectingtheblackman.Sotherearesomany angles.

RG: Howdoyoudealwithasituationwhereyouruninto peoplemisperceivingwhoyouareoryouruninto people’shistoricalignorancecoloringthewaytheysee whatyou’redoing?

TK: Ididn’twanttoembracetheroleofteacherstraight on,becausesomehowitspelled“mammy”tome. You’veeithergotthatorthenoblesavage,[whois] likethisbenevolent,veryspiritualcreature.Your peoplearedowntrodden,butyou’resuchadiamond intherough.Idon’twanttobethat.Ijustwantto beaperson.Andthat’stheinsidiouswaythatracism isapoison,becausepeoplethinkthatthey’reimbuing allofthesespecialtalentsandgiftsonyouandyou shouldlovethat.It’slike,“Whycan’tyoujustseemeas anotherequal?Ieitherhavetobesomethingyoufearor somethingyou’reaspiringtobe.Whycan’tIjustbeyour fellowhumanbeing?”That’sthatlittleweirdnichewhere peoplekindofmissthepoint,wherethey’relike,“I’m notracist.Ithinkyou’reagoddess.”I’mlike,“No,that’s howyou’reexpressingyourracismatthismoment,by objectifyingme.”SoImadethedecisionthatIdon’t wanttobethismammyfigure,thismotherfigure, that’sadmonishingyou.Idon’twantthat.…Andit cangobothways.Sometimespeoplewillneverspeak tomeagain,theywillnotpatronizemeagain,orthey’ll belike,“Thankyouforthat.Ididn’tknowthat.”…I’m justkeepingitrealatalevelthatIcanrespectmyself, andIdon’tfeellikeI’mbeingabusive,andIdon’tfeel likeI’mcoddlinganotheradultwhojustneedstobe informed.

RG: Soyoudon’twanttotakeonthatroleofaneducator asawhole,butdoyoubringsomeofthateducational functionintoyourmusic?Doyoudischargeitinthat way?

TK: Ithinkpeoplerespondmoretomyvoiceandtothe musicandaren’talwaysclearonthelyrics,tobe honest.Peoplewhoarefamiliarwiththelyricshave expressedappreciation,butIthinksomehowI’m gettingtothemsonicallyevenwhentheydon’tknow thelyrics.Iknowpeoplewhohaveseenashowmaybe onetimeandtheythankmefortheexperience,and I’mnotalwaysclearonwhatitwas,becauseIdon’t thinktheygotallofthelyrics.

RG: Istheresomethinginthequalityofyourvoicethat maybecommunicatessomethingyouwanttoget acrosstopeople?

TK: I’vebeentoldso.Ijusttrytokeepitpure.Itrynotto think.That’sonething.Itrynottothinktoomuch. Andwithwriting,it’sreallyinspiration-basedand feeling-based.

— Transcripts edited by Ronda L. Sewald

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