694 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

Dal1d Gw,'//mlt. 10513. MI'. Aldam.] Were the inhabitants Portuguese or negroe 1-1 do not know; I could not see them .

• 3 July 18,p. ) 0514. MI' . . Milnes.] Were there no women or children left in the huts?-There was no one in the huts at all, except one house that we went to, where there were two women, and one man, and two children.

10515. Mr.li'lJ1·stu.] What house was that?-That was a large house. 10516. How far was that from the town I- Close to it. 10517 . Wbat distance from it?-Close to it. 105) 8. Mr. Milnos.] What was done with tbo e people ?-One of the women

ran away; the other was gi.en under the entry's charge. 10519. Mr. F09·stel·.] Were those black women or mulatto women l- Mulatto

women. 10520. Did you understand who they were ?- No, I did not; there was one

marine that understood them "l'ery well. 1052 1. Mr. Aldam.] Who ga.e the orders to burn the town ?-The com­

mander, I suppose; the orders that were gi.en to us when we entered tbe town with the gunnel' were, that we were to go into tbe town, and to destroy it; not to injw'e a soul, nor to bring anyone away but tbose that wished to come.

10522. Mr. F01·stel'.] Will you describe what took place in de trO)ing the large house of which you haye poken ?-\~re went up to it, and searched the place; there were two women there when we fir t went there; one of them had gone away, and one was given under the entry's charge, and we told them to take away what they wanted out of the place, that we were going to burn the place down; both tbe women took their things away. Then we gave the woman under the two marines' charge, and then thi woman ran away afterwards, and we went away and burnt the place down.

10523 . Wbat did the bouse contain ?-It contained all sort of things; such as cutlasse , musket balls, shells, cowries, looking-glas es; different sorts of things; tobacco, flints, and so on. 1 could not mention all the things.

10524. Various goods I-Various goods. ) 052.5. And furniture?-Ye. I suppose there was ,ery little furniture in it. 10.526. ''''ere tbere any la,es?-I did not see any myself. 10527. Chairman.] You were not there when the 70 came off?-No; this is

a different place, it is ten miles off that. 10528. Mr. Alda1ll.] Were th<?re any bal'1'acoons for laves ?-I uppo<;e thi

largt> house was a ll!lrracoon. I hun' seen several bar'1'acoon , and 1 beliew it to be one.

10529. Was it fitted up as if for the purpose of holding laves ?-Ye, ; there wert> about eight or nine empty rooms iu it ou pm'po e for slaves, 1 uppose.

10.530. 'What was then' to show that it was intended for laves ?-Nothing but the rooms, that I know of.

10.531. Viscount Bbrillgtoll.] lOU did not find any apparatus for cooking? -No.

10532. Mr. Forster.] Did ),ou see any shacldes, or anything for confining slaves i-The boatswain's mate say~, that he took down JO or 15 pair out of the house; but I did not s('c au)' myself.

10533. You hurnt down the hous(' and it content ?-Ye. 1053-1-. What became of til women )-One of the women mn awny; the

other was given unuer the sentI') 's charge, and she ran away, I belie",,'. 10535. rr. Milnt's.] Did )'on heal' anything more about either of those two

women after they hru! run awny i-I have heard. Dy on board, that tlH' woman was ~hot; she wa giv II uud('r the entry's charge; she was undl'r two maril1('s.

) 05:3(;. Viscount Eurill.qloll.] You me'an that th y shot her 1-1 do not know ; I bdic"c tlw) til'('d at 11('1'; hut "h,'thel' tlH')' sbot her or not I do not know. I did not see til(' womun myself after she was un<i('l' tlwil' ehurg('; We' left thh woman uncleI' two mal'in<'~" charge'; thl'~1 wert' to look after 11<'1'; 'H' left h(>r tmdcr !lwir l'hal'gc aIHI told tl1('llI tb("y we)'e to ke p the woman, the m:ltI and th,' two cili!cl),"l1 th,')'c till "e r('tu}'Iwd. \Yc' were going then to btu·u tht' town down, ancl til" gunnc'r 0)'(1,,1'('(\ tlWlll that if n11) 011C' canl<' Ilenr tlll'1U the) ''''fl' to fin' tlll'ir musket us It "igoal, and \Ie w0l11d <'0111(' b[\('k. I think it "liS t\lO minutes IIftt'l' \IC' had gOll(, 11'0 heard tit" ),eport of a 1l1Ullkl't; w<' ro11 bnck to till' l .. l'Lc~, and snw 01l<' of tlll' Jtlal'iIH's mtlking back to the pIal'(' ,,1\(>)'(' ' n' hod kit th(' woman. We uHked him "hut he bad fi1'l'd for; ht' suid that the womlln had

run

SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF AFRICA. 695

run away; and Mr. Lunnon, the gunner, said, " You have not fired at the iflavitl Gwil/(I)11. woman I" "Yes," says-he, " I did." Says he, "You have not hit her?" " No," says he, " I have not." Says he, " In what directio1'1 did she go?" He Z3 July ,840 •

pointed out the direction, and a1'1 African belonging to Sierra Leone was stand-ing at the same place; he said, " Do you see anything of that woman;" H e said, " No," and he called us away with him again, and we heard no more till the report arose on board that the woman was shot.

10537. Chai?·rnan.] Did you leave the island immediately ?- Yes, one of the Africans told us that if we did uot leave the island it would be the worse for us . He said there were about 700 or 800 in the bush, and if we did not go, with such a small complement we should be massacred.

10538. And you went straight away I-Yes, on board the ship. 10539. Mr. Ponter.] The town that you burnt consisted of small huts,

apparently the residences of the natives ?-1 do not know who they belonged to; there was no one in them when we went into the toWll.

10540. But they had the appearance of having bee1'1 occupied I-Yes, they had been occupied, and they had been aware of our coming there because they had been locked up.

10541. Sir T. D. Acland.] Do you know whether any of the ship's crew saw the body of this woman if she was shot I-I do not know.

J 0542. Chai?·man.] Then you left the island immediately ?-Yes. 10543. Mr. Alda?n.] Do you know how the report arose that she had been

shot ?-It arose by one of the men giving the carpenter's mate that we had on board a bad character.

10544. Chai1'1nan.] You mean that the man of whom the bad character had been given put this story about I-Yes; he was not there at the time, neither did I know anything about the woman, though 1 was there.

10545. Did the marines receive any rebullle for their having shot in the direction of the woman I-Yes; the gunner said that if they shot again or offered to shoot in the direction of any person, he would shoot them.

10546. Mr. P01'ste?·.] How many were there of your party altogether i­There were four blue jackets, and I think either five or six marines, and three Africans, and a gunner . I think there were about 15 of us altogether.

]0547. There was no officer superior to the gunner ?-No, only the gunner ; we left two hands with the boat, and we did not count the two negroes anything, the fellows that showed us the way to the place.

Prancis SW{(JIlZ!}, Esq. called in; and further Examined.

10548. ARE you conversant with an affair that seems to have taken place in F. Swanzy, Esq. 1838, in which the cbief of the Abantas, by name Boonsoo, was bung, which is mentioned by Dr. Madden, in page 76 of Appendix (B.) of the Gold Coast Report ?-I am; he was hung by tbe Dutch General, Veerveer; the General of the Dutch expedition.

10549. If any impression was created upon the mind of Dr. Madden, as appears' to have been by the answers which you gave to some queries of his, that he was hung by British authorities, it is a mistake ?-It is quite erroneous; perhaps I did not mention that he was hung by the Dutch authorities; I thought it was too well known to make it necessary.

Colonel Edwa?·d Nicolls, called in; and Examined.

,10550. Chairman.] HAVE you any information to give to the Committee, Col. E. Nicoll,. with reference to the subjects of their present inquiry I-In answer to a number of questions which were addressed to me two years ago, by the Society for the Extinction of the Slave Trade and the Civilization of Africa, I gave all the information in my power with reference to the West Coast of Africa; and I beg leave to deliver in to the Committee a copy of those answers. (The same was delivered in.) I will also deliver in a plan for the government of the coast. This plan proceeds upon the principle that every colony, after having received a liberal outfit, should pay its own expenses. (The same was delivered in.) I would also mention to the Committee what my opinion is of the best and most economical means of disposing of the liberated Africans, having reference to assisting the want of hands in the West Indies. I have long observed the dreadful loss of life which has attended the sending the liberated Africans up

0.35. 4 T 4 to

I

Co!. E. Nicolls.

696 MINUTES OF EV10ENCE TAKEN BEFORE TilE

to Sierra Leone, against wind and current, as well as the great expense that it has been to the country. The loss of life is tremendous; of the last four slavers taken in the Bights in 1834, which were all taken by my information, two of them had 700 slaves each, and each of them lost nearly 300 out of the 700 in going up to Sierra Leone. They might have been landed all in the Bights at Fernando Po without the loss of a man. The two others lost between 200 and 300 between them; in fact, it would be impossible to tell the number of lives that ha,e been lost in consequence of Sierra Leone being kept as the asylum for liberated Africans, after a Committee of the House of Commons had recommended its removal, and in the teeth of that recommendation.

IOSSl. The remo,al was recommended by the Committee of J830?-Yes, it was; I gave endence before that Committee myself. The nwnber of lives that have been lost in consequence of not attending to the advice of that Committee is enormous. The plan I would propose is this, that all the slaves taken here­after should he landed at the I land of Ascen ion, and no more sent to Sierra Leone, and tllat a ship should be kept there well fitted to carry them to the West Indies. At the Island of Ascension they would be ,ery well taken care of; there is plenty of water now there for everybody; I have here plans of the tanks, and can leave them with the Committee; you would then he able to relieve the West Indies, in ome measure, favouring whate,er island you thought proper; and if that system were carried on under the Government, it would be in my opinion an u eful and charitable act to the poor creatures themseh'es as well as to the West India people.

10552. Where do you contemplate the adjuelieation to take place '-At A5-cension, to remo~'e the Mixed Commission Court there .

. 10553. Do you propose that after adjuelication they should be mo,ed off to the various West Inelia colonies '-In tantly.

10554. Do you propose that a vessel should alway be ready there for the chance of captured negroes being brought there ?- Ye ; a iran port well fitted for the purpose, and that they houla be put instantly into that, and sent forth­with to their ultimate destination.

105.55. Vlnat mean ha,e you at Ascen ion for proYieling su tenance '-You must ha,e upplies from the Cape of Good Hope and England. You could supply it very cheapl)' from the Cape of Good Hope with all kinds of sto1'e- ; plenty of corn, pens, and rice, beef, mutton, and pork; and they ha,e got at the island a great quantity of fish and tUTtle, They have now plenty of water. The place is dry. You have no occasion to build hou es; tents would be quite sufficient, for there is scarcely any rain there except on fue mountain; and it is decidedly healthy; for I , as in comm,md there for fi,e years, and I ne,er buried but one man, and he was killed by a fall.

10556. Do you lmow the length of the '1"0 age from Ascension to Trinidad' -Not above a fortnight or tlu'ee week. Ascension is directly in the line of the south-east Trades, and all you ha,e to do is to run away before the wind; a stcamer would be the best.

J 0.,).57. HO\\' would the yes el get back; what freight would you have back to A ' cen ion ?-You would have no freight; it must be a ,'essel kept on pur­pose. She might carry some fuel, ,,'hich i ' always wanted at Ascen ion. Th.ere might bl' a vcry good trade n.rried on Ii'om there to the Grain Co~t of AfrIca. A hip might go from the We t Ineli('s and touch ther~, and take m corn and rice, and go to Asceu ion, aud carry that aud th u('gJ'oes together to the ":e t Inelics. That would be cloino- gJ'cat good to Africa, a well as to the We t In.elie . It is a mo t horrible cl ·truction of human life takin'" tllOse peoplc to Su~rra Leone against wind and current; I hayc seen th(,1l1 come out of the shi;) like gho ts. I have seen thrlU pickiu'" up little piece ' of skin m' pm. off [he dung-hcap, and ating them in the middlc of the to\\'n. The way III wludl they are located is perfect de truction to them. Th('re has b('en no pnm.s taken to instruct them i.n agriculture or comm rce. All our missiollRIY statIons ought to hal e school establishments the am~ a- the ?l>lorn,ian Brethren have, to teach them agriculture, horticultul'~, and tlw difrer~nt mechanical arts; nothing is taught the· people but ollle crudc notions on religious SU?.iects, .Wlll.ch the); cannot be suppos('c\ to uuder tand, and to spell, read, and wl'lte, whlch IS usefu. for them to know.

10.558. Looking to the adjuclication ofncgl'oc taken offthc Portuguesl' st'.ttle: ments, and the ('astern COMt of Afri n, would you prefer till' Cnl (' or A ' t"'n~lon . -From the East Coa·t that i ' (hose round or to the east of tlle Cape, mu't gO' , , to

SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF AFRICA. 697

to the Cape first; but from 20' north to 20' south, where the greatest proportion Co\. E. Nicol/s. of slavers are taken at present, you run down straight before the wind to Ascensicm; a,nd you wGmld have this great advantage, that the men of war 23.J uly 1842 •

would get their crews back quicker and safer. Now we lose half our prize crews by sending them up to Sierra Leone, wilere they cannot get back for a long time, and they die of the fever : I have known a ship of war, statIOned for several years at Fernando Po, that never lost a single man, until she sent a prize up to Sierra Leone, and half the people died there. That was the Favourite ship of war, which, from the admirable order she was kept in, was four years in the Bights without ever losing a man, except one or two who died from natural defects.

J 0559. Do you conceive t-itat jr, would be desirable still to keep up the Mixed Commission Court at Sierra Leone for the slavers taken upon the Leewa,rd Coast; -No; you get over to Ascension quickly and safely from tile Grain Coast . All along down from the Gambia you get to Ascension through a safe and quick passage, and the cruisers would get back. their people quickly again, and be free from the Sierra Leone fever.

10560. Snppose a capture made up at Bissao ?-Theywould run down upon the coast till they i(ot parallel to Fernando Po, and then they would go across .

10561. Would they be able to get to Ascension as quickly as to Sierra Leoner-No; but there are now very few vessels taken there.

J 0562. Mr. F01·stm·.] You mean that Ascension, upon the whole, would be the best station ?-Certainly, particularly with reference to the part where the greatest number are captured; on the south-east coast, and from the latitude of St. Thomas to 20' south of the Line, there is the greatest number taken a t present.

105°3. Captain FitZ1·OY.} You have been at Ascension often ?-I commanded. it for five years; I know every stone upon the island; there are upwards of 20,000 tuns of water there now, and you can get as much more as you like. I would beg leave also to make a few observations upon the plan of a general emigration from Africa to the West Indies; I cannot contemplate such a thing existing at present; I know no other characters in Africa than master and slave. You cannot get any of the latter without paying or bribing the form er.

10,564. Except at Sierra Leone r-Yes; and there the more you can get the better, both for the people themselves and for all parties concerned.

JO!i6S. What is your opinion of emigration from the Gambia?-From the Gambia I do not believe you could get any body of natives, without paying the masters for them, or without the danger of recommencing another slave trade unless you do this; unless you sit down at the head of the Gambia, where we ought to hRle a settlement for the protection of our merchants and merchan­dize. If you were to do that, and to receive the sovereignty of the territory, then you would have all the surrounding people come in and live under your government, and in process of time you would not only have an increase of commerce and protection to our merchants, but you would have a free popula­tion, who could if they pleased go to the West Indies.

J 0566. How high up do you mean /- 1 would go up to Pisania, where Mungo Park started from when he went upon his travels. That is the true way to ch-ilize Africa; not to be poking about the mouths of the rivers, and killing your people by the miasma arising from the alluvial soils and swamps; bu't to go into the heart of the country; it is of all things the most easy. I would answer to go to Timbuctoo from the sea in three weeks with a gang of six galleys, such as I had at Fernando Po. I could go at the rate of 50 miles a dr.y.

10567. Do you believe that settlements at a considerable distance from the coast could be proteoted ;-The.v are almost mad to get us there. The chief Aboka, at one of the places up the Niger, said to Dr. Oldfield, " For God's sake remain here with us; your white face will be a protection to us against the Fellatas." Mr. Laird found all the people ready to receive him everywhere. You will be received with open arms as a protection against the Fellatas; and the natives that you protect will be a protection for you against them; besides, half-a-dozen muskets will make a host of them run away; they will not look at firearms .

10568. Then you must have steamers up the river to communicate backwards and forwards i-Yes, and galleys; but if you put it to me whether I would take galleys or steamers to go lo Timbuctoo, I Ilouid certainly say galleys,. because

0.35. 4 U _you

Col. E. Njc",~'.

oj J ul! .8,p.

U9 g MINUTES OF EVIVE;-\CE T .\KE~ BEFORE TlIE

YOll have no occasion to depend upon the. li" e; of engineer., or to depend upon fuel; you would havc thl' boats manned w.th luoom('n, and a few British officers to direct thcm. You can always depend upon the good faith of the Kroomen; I have gone J 00 miles a day with the same crew in my galley; I went from Fer­nando Po up to Duke's Town, with Captain Trotter in the boat with me and when we arrived at Duke's Town, I said to him, " Are not my boat's crew ~ fresh as when we set out in the morning?" He said, "It is a most extraordinary thing, but it is so." I gave them their meals regularly; their dinners were cooked for them. I had a " conjuror " in the boat, and I fed them well, jnst as I did myself.

10569. With respect to any extensive emigration at present, you think that it could not be carried on ?-My impression is, that in the present state of Africa, it is impossible. If Her l\Iajesty will accept the sovereignty of territory uch as was ceded to me opposite to Fernando Po, by the native chiefs, who

came over aud took the oath of allegiance voluntarily, then when you have got the cession of the territory, you will have a population which will become free; you may then. haye freemen to go to the West Indies; you cannot pre­vent a freeman gomg where he likes ; and if he chooses to go to the West Indies for the wages he would get there, you might have an emigration to some extent, but under present circumstances, it is impo sible, for this reason: I went over to Old Calabar, and said to Duke Ephraim, "What will you let me ha"e a thou and men for, to clear the bush at Fernando Po, and I will send them back when I have done with them /" "No," said he, " I will have nobody here that is educated by you; they would soon become our masters here; but I can sell you a thou and men, and )'ou can make them free." Now, it would have a noble appearance, if it were aid that a per on had bought a thousand men, and made them free, and ent them over to the -VVe t Indies to work as free men. But look behind th e picture, and ee the consequence: with the price of tho e thou. and men Duke Ephraim would go into the interior and buy 2,000 ; there you at once double the mischief. But still that is not half the mischief, for in taking tho e men in the interior, I have very good proof that there are generally two, three, or four people destroyed in taking one. So that 1,000 would be the destructiou of 6,000, which would be alto­gether a complete rl'ncwal of the sla"e tradC'. Then again that would not be half the mischief, because if you did thi!, would not erery power in Europe demand the same right, and Africa would be tom to atoms for ererlasting, and -till be made the scapc-;;oat of cupidity.

10.570. You arc speaking of the plan of buying them ?-Buying their liberty. If you did so, the power. of Europe would immediately say, You are hypocrites, and we must do the ~amc. Thcll would follow m W'der, rapine, and kiduapping, de troying millions annnull).

1°57 1. 'ir T. D. Adalld.] Do your papers contain detailed information upon that subject (-'l'h~y do ; and these paper I deliver in, praying this Committee to hayc them printed, in order to do away with the iniquity of Sierra Leone, for it is a ink of financial iniquity of all ·ort., of folly, crueltr, and crime of every de cription.

10572. You lun-,' staled at Sierra Leone for some time?-l have. 10.573· I-lave you tated rOUl" own opinion fully upon that subject in the

paper:; ?-l lun·e.

[The/ol/olDiJlg Popcr wos d,,/il"rrt'd ill b!J Jlaf/fl"l'-'Io r L aird, E q.]

EXT1L\CT of n Le;tll'r dn:ed l1nnwll Ih, '.26 ~hrch 18.f2.

~ I NCE 1 "fotl-' to YOII on lhu l~t in,UlIIt, I hn\'(, h:cci\'t~dyo\1r favour 01' the 15lh .J anuary In~l, tl l1d :'1m g illd to find thfll )011 Ita\'!! found Ulj' 11..u"ices ilil elll~ till g, Cl:-pcCI<l lly lho~e on tlw "uojl.'I,.'t of Ihe ~ );I\ t' lIlHI,>,

You 'will be th t' mort' 1; ,'nt iH'Jd \, h ell r 1...11 you lhnl I nOw bt'li .:! ve it 10 he lhe honest tit klH' of the lo('nl f\ul lHlrltinl 10 ubollsh th llt di~~I'ncl' ''tll tl':lflic; nne! if 'iO, tht'rc canno\ be n don III of tlwi r ~ U C(,'(,HS, ;'It 1('0:-01 to n g'rt'n t e · t ~nt. An OCCI\~ln l1;'11 sHluc:g1er Inn\, :;ucc.t'ed 10 clI M·lllhR.rkin~ his t'llr~o, bUI bt'),OIHI Ihl1'\ nOl hill~ i" to Ut' n.p pr headed. ,Vould that t' lwh I1'.U',umn·s hurl bel'n d l·tcTtIlm~d on be foro, nnt IIlCrdy fur th e l!'Iakll of h"n.ll,nll), 'U1.d I-!0ocl fUlth, bUl also tu th ... · l)I'olil ur 011 1 pl.HltcrlOo, who would I1t..H dlLll han' t.. xtcmd,,<1 tlJ .... tr

11~.i(·u ll urn l l'lIt\·II'I·IM" Lo tto t'x trtl\' n~nl\t .wu rUl ll Oth n (h'~HC~; l~Lllti \'.ltio n would d\l'1l have ""'~[ II I!nult!d tu good soil ,lIld wdl II cillnl lalld, un(1 thl' COl>ll of pn)d tll'li {l 11 h 1\1..' th~n hll rlH .. ' 11 jl1Kh' j r,ropOI'IIUIi to lilt> pile!.!", of th ... , 111 1\1 kd. 'l'1h'lit! nn' ju:;;t n(lW dt'IHd;,scd I..llyond plI,,;ccdcllt.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF AFRICA. 699

EXTRACT ofa Letter dated Havannah,:p May 1 842. Gr.I. E. /yicolt..

CONFIRMING by what precedes my respects oftbe l11h illsta nt, I would now ~dd th~t 23 J uly 184 2 •

prorluce conti~ ues in the sa me depressed state, and what is WOT:-'P, there is scarcely ~ .do ubt o f th e crop of suga r provjng this year exceedingly short, so that the planb-'rs wiU s9.fI~r mllch distress, and many of th eir factors be ruined, \'.:11i ch circumstances, ind epen den t of thf' exertions of t hf' Government, are s uffic ient to lessen, if not entirely abolish, the slave trade. .

L una;, 25" die Julii, 1842.

MEMBERS PRESEl'IT.

Sir T. D. Adand. Mr. Aldaill. Viscount Courtenay. Viscount Ebrington. Cal'tain Fitzroy.

VISCOUNT SANDON,

Mr. Forster. Sir H.. H. Inglis. MI'. Wilson Patten. Mr. G. W. Wood.

IN THE C -HAIR.

h/atthew Forste'l', Esq. a Member of the Committee; Examined.

10574· Chai,.man.] HAVE you any remarks to offer on the relative import- M. Forster, Esq. ance t o commerce, aml the improvement of Africa, of ou r possessions on the M. P.

coast, and on the probable advantages to be derived from additional set:t1 e--rnents?-In answer to that question I have prepared a few remarks, which I 25 July 1842 •

will Tearl :-The trade with the ,"VestCoasl of Africa is already one of considerable importance to this country, and is susceptible of very great augmentation , which will surely take place as the slave trade, and consequent internal anarchy, cease, and as l1abits of in dustry an d civi lization are introd uced and extenderl . To these objects I know no means more conducive than colonial postrs. The rapid success of the colony on the Gambia , on which so li ttl e money has been spent, and that littl e not at all in the most advantageous way, proves how much more may be done even in Africa !:ly judicious selection and prudent conduct of a settlement. Patience, the determination to await the slow but certain develop-ment of the resources of the neighbuuring population, which will follow a demand for their produce, is the first requisite; and from the want of this, so many zealous and apparently well-planned attempts at colonization, but which all bore the fatal error of a desire for immerliate, and therefore impossible success, have failed. The Gambia I consider decidedly the most importrant of our West 1\ f'rican possessions. The grtlat length of the water communication with the interior ; the great resources of the country, and the commercial character of the people in its neighbomhood, give it a value far su,perior to that of any other river on the coast, excepting, perhaps, the Senegal. The capabi-lities of the spot on which the largest amount of Government and subscribed funds have been expended -Sierra Leone, appeal' very limited. But for the trade in timber, one which by the destruction of the forests within reach of water carriage (and already the trees fell ed are often dragged many miles to the rive r) must exhaust itself; the commerce of the place must have sunk into insignificance. The settlements on the Gold Coast possess no faci lities of communication with the interior ; and their past services, which have ueen the complete suppression of the slave trade on a liIle of coast formerly the most important ill that trade, and the slaves from which were considered of superior value, have probably been greater than anything we can expect them to render henceforth. One value, however, they will 10tJg possess, that of remaining a curb on the most ferocious and formidable llegro states within our reach; and ] wo uld here remind the Committee, that re-occupying the post at Whydah would enable liS to exert a beneficial influenee on the paganism and cruelties of Dahomey, as well as powerfully repress the slave trade. With reference to the establisb ment of small recognised settlements on other points of the coast.

0.35. 4 U 2 I will

111. Forster, E' q. M.P.

700 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

I will observe, that a settlement at Bulama, in connexion with that on the Gambia, would greatly benefit our future trade in that part of the coast. A very small establ ishment, placed und er the supcrintendence of the <70-

vernment of the Gambia, and protected by a small party of black soldi~rs, would be sufficient for the foundation of a post there ; and if we arc to judO'e from the effect of even single unprotected factories in driving slave ships froom their neighbourhood, and in suppress ing in a great measure even the internal or coast slave trade, such posts at E ulama, at Galliuas, and at all other points of tbe coast on which they were planted, 1V0uld do more to destroy the slave trade than even ~n annual devastation of the ('oast wi th fire and sword by our squadron. The ri vers in the Bight of Benin are at present the principal poin ts for the export of produce, and it is much to be regretted that the clim ate of that region should appeal' so peculiarly fatal as 10 make it doubtful whether any settlement on shore should be attempted. The French government has long been aware of th e advantages to be derived by Ihe posse sion of sllch statiuns; they have recently made some attempts of t he kind, one of which, that to establish a fort on the Casamanza River, bas been brought before the public by thei r conse­quent aggre sion on t he rig ht to trade in that ri ve r of £ng lish merchants. On 50me ve ry recent efforts of the same nature r beg to hand to the Committee the following informat ion, being from letters lately received, and throwi ng some lig ht also 011 the conduct of the French officers and traders in Ihe ril' ers in which they obtai n a footing :-

EXTn "C'l'S from LETIERS received from the Gold Coast, on the subject of the Attempts made to form Settlements on and ill the Neighbourhood of that Coa't b.v a Prellr.h Squadron lately arrived there.

From Captaill llIae/calt, dated Cape Coa t Castle, 31 March 1 8~2.

" " 'E have lately had the Frenth squadron running down the coast. It is resolved at Paris that tbey are to form settlements at Grand Bassam, Assinee, and W hyda"; so at least some of the officers of tho sq uadron told me. [t serms that we are to have the 'famed Belle Poule' and Princc Joinville here next season."

From James Raltltcrmall, Esg., dated British Accl1l, 19 March 1842.

H I FE. \ R those in power at home are very indifferent about tltis part of the world, at:1. momf'nt too when the French arc m.llking great exertions to obta:n n footing in e\'ery hole and corner in it; Lhey have lately purchased land and hoisted their flag a.t G.lnuw.1Y :'lnd in the Gnboon River, and have already made one or two attempts to debar Ene:l i,h "essel from trad ing at the latter place. I believe they are about resuming po,ses ·ion of their fort at Whydah, which "as abandoned by th .. I JO )'";11·, ago, so that they are emlently in earnest to obtain a footing ill Africa. "

From Cl\ptain Grow, of the Trading Ba.rque " Robert H~"dle," dated Cape Coast, :)0 ~ I arch 1842.

" 1'"" consequence of tho s)'stcm pursued by the cruisers lately has been to take the tratic from. the Engli~h and put it in the hand~ of foreigners. Th{! ~,lme Ft~nC'h brig (Pro\'cn~al ~Il\~tcr) that ",lI1 down the CO(\~t with me ha~ instl'udions to hoist the French flag at Wh)'d.h II.nd other place., wherever the nati ves will permit him, ond oR., to'llpply them with goods from Fmnce. Two French tuen-of-war came down the cou ..... t With hllll , with instrnmcnt~ of' conveyance, llnd with the names of the chiefs of the cli£fcl'ent places inserted, om' rin~ to pnrchase land nnd buil,1 a fort. &0. They only succeeded at one place Lo windward, ~t. AI1<lrC'w's i hut fit ,\"since, Grand Dn. ~nm, &t!. they were fOi led by (l

llrisLoimnn (\Yll,gsh\O'), who c'\pltlincd to lhe natives their true ol?iect. Tht~y nre ~on,~ to the Bight for the same purpose. \Vag::4tllff, who was on shol'~ With lhem, got a si~ht of the prcllmblc of olle of their parchmen'-,. Ile say. thllt one of the provi.ions wa~ t~ bltild n fOI'l. kc'cl) 0 ~Umcil'nt number of sol dll' I~, and Jefend the nnt.ivC's from the 1l~~l'l~"S10n'{ of the Eng li ~ t. I urn arrnid that Dc SOUZ1\ will make some arrangement with them , th'O l1 ~l\ h,> df)(,~ lIul lik e lhe FI'f'llch; but the Spnnlil.rtls, who hnve great influcnce there, pret't\r then. lo I he English."

From n l ,{·(ter rrom Mr. Ric/"ml Llo!ld, of St. Mar.'!'>. to ;)l r. ,1I. For.</,·r , dated the 11th ~ l l\y IIL'(.

If Enclo"cd i ~ (',trnct from n l('ill"I' fl'om mv CQll'l.i ll , Edward lJoyd, nt the C(lsnm OZ:l Rivl'r, ~h()wi np;: the nc\\',lIltagr' dllll the FI'('nch hAve over us in 1 f'~ilim1\tt~ tn\dc b~ COl\tinUln~ (JH·ir dli',g-ntterul comtl)('rc(.· in h ltll\U Il fl(·~h. The ~I nves nrO ~('nt to ..... t. LOllis, in \lo lc~~, t n ... nn nrti(.'lt~ of pro<iucf'. Mold hy public' rlHclion with protl t1 c~. nnd knoc\.;r<\ d,)wn tt' th(· llI~h e:--t ullid/'I, wlw r(l('l'l\C~ a IlrJlllm.ti ' ind,'ntllrt' ror I·' v"nl' ' from thC' gmcrnment.'"

SELEc;r COMMITT~E .oN WEST COAST OF AFRICA. 701

(Extracts referred to.) 111. Fors/er, Esq.

lVIr. Ed1VW'rl Lloyd, Seidjie, Casaruanza, 22 April 1842, writes: M. P.

"t can assure you that a great deal of gold t"ade has come down, most of it from Fata- 25 July , 842. ~end a, a~d a g reat many more traders are com ing; this large trade is owing to the mterruptlOn of commerce last year by wars, now settled. Howf:>vel', L am not lucky enough to !!;et any of their gold, on account of the numerous slaves they bring, they not being willing to sell the gold apart from the slaves, and the French havin g commenced buying slaves agam up the river. Their commandant will not allow them t6 buy them inside the fort; perhaps he may receive them, when purchased, in it or on board the Company's vessel ' Stationail'e.' H

Mr. EdwOJrd Lloyd, J unior, same date: " I wrote to you before to sm.te that the road would most probably be opened to the "­

gold traders soon . It is now open, and a g reat many have come dow n with that articl e, though I fea r I shall not be able to purchase any of it, as they have brought some slaves, and wi ll not part with the gold unless the slaves are sold with it. The French trad ers have c~mmeDced buying s laves, and I believe they are brought down here. The commandant Will notall ow the agent to purchase them. I understand a great many of Lhe gold traders are comlllg down, and I believe rna st of them wi ll be from M'Carth y's Island."

(The agent referred to must be the agent of the French Trading Company.)

As some alarm appears to be felt, both in and out of Parl iament, on the subject of tbe supposed expensive cbaracter of the establishments whic b 1 t rust the Commi ttee will recommend, I would remark that the forts on the Gold Coast have been kept in a tolerably efficien t state for 1.,000 t. a yea r, an d that the expense even of S ierra Leone has not arisen f"om the snpport of the colonial adminis tration, but tbat it has been money fo r the mos t part wasted, and often profligately jobbed away. The exp(!nsive and useless ou tlay, the 80,000 t. said to have been expe nded on a church, twenty times the Sli m it should have cost, and other folli es, should be cons idered apart from tbe necessary expendi7

lure of the Go'vernment and defence of the place. " 10575. S ir R. H. I nglis.) You have spoken of" even "an annual devastation

of tbe coast with fire and sword by our squad ron ." To what do you refer when you speak of' an annual devastation of the coast with fire and sword by our s~ uaclron ?-J refer to the proceedings which have late ly taken place on the ,Vestern Coast of :\frica, wbich have been so frequel~t1y alluded to before thi s Committee.

10576. Do you refe r to the explo it of Captain Denman at th e Gall inas ?- To that and to other proceedings of a simi lar nature on other parts of the coast.

10577 . Sir T. D. Actand.] How many such have occurred to your know­ledge ?-At the Gallinas, at Bulama, at Hen Island, at the Pong"os I think, at the Cestos, and I am not quite sure whether there a,'e not other places.

10578. Sir R . H. I nglis.] You are aware that th e exploits of Captain D en­mall have received the concurrent app robation of the Foreign Office, of the Colonial Office, and of the Admi ralty, during t he late administration, un der which admillistration that exploit was performed i-I a'il not aware of it, becanse no such approval has come under my notice, but if that be the case, all 1 have to say is, that I am very sorry to hear it. .

1°579. Have you read the papers presented to Parliament during the last session on tbe subject of the exploits at the Gallinas ?-I have read several Parliamentary papers having reference to those" exploits," an d particularly a paper containing an account given by Captain Denman himself of his" exploits" at the Gallinas, and it is upon those papers, and upon the information I have received from tbe Coast of Africa, that I found the opinion 1 have given of th eir tetlClency and cbaracter.

J 0580. But, in point of fact, do you deny that those exploits have received the approbation of the Queen's Government at tbe time when Ihe "exploits were performed ?-1 had not heard it ti ll I entered th is Committee; but if I had heard it before, it wO llld not have altered my opinion in the least as to the character and tendency of tbose " exploits."

1058 1. In th e last words of' you r fi rst answer you have referred to an "ex­pens ive and useless ou tlay" in Sierra Leone of " 80,000 I. said to bave been ex pended on a chu rch, 20 t imes t he sum it shou ld have cost, and other follies;" can you point out to this Committee any documentary evidence, or any oral evidence before t his Committee, or any other docUluentary evidence upon wh ich the facts alleged in that portion of your answer are founded or snstained ?

0. 35. 4 u 3 -Not

111. FOl'sl.l', Esq. M.P.

702 MIN UTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

- Not having been to Sierra Leone, or seen the colonial accounts there or here, I can on ly depend upon those who ought to be better informed upon the subject th1'n myself, such as Colonel Findlay and the late :\Ir. Lewis, and several otbers, \Vb" havc repea tedly conversed with me upon that subject.

] 0582. Chairman] Have they informed you that 80,000 t. was expended upon t he church ?- Yes. I ought perhaps to explain, that that church has been in hand for a great many year,; the works have been stopped at various times; some portion of it, [ believe, has occasionally fallen down, and the building afterwards resum e<l; I believe it is by that sort of mismanagement, as well as jobbing, that the expenditure has taken place.

] °583. What are th e oth er follies alluded to in this answer ?- There have been considerable sums, 1 believe, 'expended in the erection of public buildings which were unnecessary, and also very considerable sums expended injudiciously on the Liberated African Department formerly; and various other abuses, parti­clllarly about the time of the Ashantee war. Several contracts were entered into for the supply of provisions during that \\'ar, which I believe were never applied to that purpose. Very large quantities of ri ce were purchased a.nd sent down, and afterwards, J believe, were throwll ol'erboard; and many similar jobs have taken place wi thin my recollection. I cannot recapitulate them all at this moment, but if the COlllmittee reqllire a list of them, I have no doubt I should be able to lay it before them in a very short time, altbough I do Dot pretend to say it would contain all of them .

1 °584. S ir R. H. IlIglis.] As you have stated that you have never been upon that part of the coast, can you supply to the Committee any definite evidence by which this charge so made by :ou can be susta ined ?-I have DO doubt that, jf the Committee wish a particular statement upon the subject, I should be enabled to furnish it ill a ver.v hort ti;ne, but of course I have not come prepared with a specific statement upon the subject over a period of 40 years .

] 0585. But as it appears that you have come prepared to make the charge, I feel authorized to a k you whether you hu ,'e come prepared to sustain the charge ?-Certainly I came preparE'd. r gave the church a an instance of the system, and 1 think that must slltlicient ly prO\'e it; that if such a Sllm of m{JIley could be expended in such a way the other Government work would be carried on in a similar manner . r see no rea on why they should have expenrled all their fol ly alld all their extra\,a!l"Ance upon the church.

10586. Your answer assullles the flct that that sum was expended UpOD the chu rch. 'I he object of the question \\ as to procure oocumenraryevidence from yourself, or a statement of some documentar." evidence exi ting el-cwhere in the records of the Government, which migltt prove the faetl-I gave the church a an instance, and if the COllllllittee require further in tanceg, I have no doubt, if I \\ ere allowed time to prepare them, I conld furnish tllem. "'ith re pect to tbe accuracy of llly statellient about the church, I beg to refer to Colonel Findlay, who ought to be pretty ~ocd authurity, he having fini.hed the chllrch III tel' it had been in hand so many .I'cars. r do not Illean to say that the sum may not possibly be e'(ap:gcrated.

1°587 . Mr. TToo(/.] You say the church wa~ finished by Colonel Find lay; can you state wlteD the church wa~ begun ;-1 cannot state that; but 1 can supply the information if it is material; it was several years in band.

I u588. ir T. D. Ada/l(I.] Do you know whether at the ,"l\e Ihctoric' at the Gallinas thcre have not bcen persons sold as slaves who bore the cha<3ctcr of Driti,h subject ?-1 am not awure of it, and I :hould 11.1\'0 grent doubt of the accuracy of any such statement.

I u589. If that had been the case, could )'OU point out any othcr stop ti,at could be takcn that won1d lJe ,0 effectual to prcn~nt the fllturtl ensLlI'ing of British ,ubjects as the destruction 01" the factol"i~s !-I tlllnk that to undertake so qucstionable a proc cding on a ground of that kind woulo have been inex­pedient; I h,lI'c gn'at doubts as to any slwh sale hllvin~ taken plac~, und I tlllnk that if it hud ta" n place, redl·l". Illight howe been obtained through the GOv"lllur of Sill'ru L~olle withNlt proceeding to extrcmitie;; oC dt:lt nature; that is 111)' opinion. •

I O.')9 ll . ). ou spoke of the dC\"llstatiOtl as being not onl.V by fire (nil by sword; were any lives lu,t at the destrllction of those U:llTIIC(){ln, at die (,aIlIlHl'!­I ha\'(' bl'en inforllled so, bul. not ita,ing hC(!ll Oll L11~ , put, of course ill things of this killel we l1lust depend "POll the inlol'llllltion '''' lccci,'\) lillill otI1l.'r.. \I hell

W~

SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF AFRICA. 703

We consider th e violent nature of those proceedillgs, I think it would be rather lIf. Fo.'Gter, Esq. sIngular If they could be carri ed on without the loss of life. M. P .

10 59 1 • Chairman.] Were fire-arm s used upon th e twq occasions alluded to ?-I believe so; if no li ves were lost I am very bappy to hear it. '5 July 1842.

1 0 59 2 . Mr. IF. Patten.] Yon have stated that " the se ttlements on the Gold Coast possess no fa cilities of communication with th e interior; and their past se rvices, which have been the ~01l1plete suppression of the slave trade on a line of co~st fo rmerly the most important in that trade, and the slaves from \vhich were considered of superior valne, have probably been greater th a,n anything we can ex pect th em to rencler henceforth ." Is it your opinion that no material increase of commerce can be expected on the Gold Coast ?--Very far from it ;" and I am g lad that that que~ion has been put, because I mysel f am, not altoge­t her sati sfi ed ~ith my Own statenient upon th at sU\Jject. Although they labour un der the dIsadvantage of 11-dvi ng no water comn11lnica,tion with the interior, yet, considering the increase that has lately taken place in tbe t rade, and that our communi cations with Ashantee will , I hope, in future be more constant and attended with greater facilities, I have no doubt that there will be a very considerable increase in our tra,de tb ere. Althoug h it will undoubtedly pe slow, ye t I think it is one of the parts of the coast that promise the best, and hold out the best prospects for the future commerce of thi s country with Africa .

10693. Chairman.] Fwm tb e effect of perman ent tranquillity established in the in terior, and confiden ce and security of life and property ?- Yes; and the increased tra nquillity a nd confidence tbat has latte rly existed there has given eV Idence of a considerabl e in crease of trade, and shows bow mu ch more might be expected when those effects are more permanent and more extended .

1 (l.594. ilir. W. P atten.] From your communication with that part of the coast, are you led to believe that the relations between the Asbantees and t he neig-hbo ll l'ing t ribes are now in a more favourahlle position than they have been for man~' years past ?- Most unquestionably.

10595. W hat course, in you r opinion, would be the best for the British GOl'ern lll en,t to take to ensure the peace of that distri ct, and the safe conduct of ou r com mercial operations the re ?-l can conceive no plan more effectual, alld 1 could give no recommen dation fo r t he guidance of the G.overnment better t hall to foll ow ou t the principle that has been adopted by NI r. Maclean in his governm ent of those settl ements; it has been attended wit h very great success ; and fr@m his knowledge of the people, and his great experience, I think any plan recomm ended by him might be sal~ly relied upon as fo unded Oll p rudent considerations; we have, besides, the effect of his administration in proof of th ~ correctness of his principles.

10596. The object of the question was to ascertain the principle of the policy which you would recommend to be pursued as regards the Ashantees and the other tribes in that neighbourhood for the purpose of main taini fig peace between those t ribes I-Of course Ollf interference must be in a great measure in the way of negotiation and remonstrance; it must be of an amicable natl]re as far as possible, because the re would be great difficulty in pursuing any coercive Jlleasures; but after what we have seen of tbe effect of negotiation amongst them, and the influence of the English name in that neighbourhood, I think there is no reason to fear, but that if the same prudent course be pursued in future, the effects that we have already seen will be extended, and permanently efiec t,ual.

10597. Is it your opinion that the Ashantee natioo is a suffiCiently powerful nation to maintain itsel f against the surrounding countries, or is it not ratber a ,fa il ing nation, and likely to. be overeo.me by them in c~se o~ an outbre~k amongst its ne ighbours?- I thmk there IS some exaggeratlOn 10 the publIc mind with regard to the power of the Ashantees; undoubtedly, compared WIth a uy single power in t he in!mcdiate neighbourhood, their influence is consider­&ble; yet sti ll I do not th lllk we ha"e any rea.son to fear that they wtll ever become so formidable as to prevent us carr)' ll1g out our vIews III promotlOg the peace of the country. Persons have cuntellded, and \;ith . some show of reason , that it would be better to encou rage a powerful natIOn 10 that quarter ba vi no' con trol over the others ; because it is supposed that while a divided autho~ity cont inues, they are more like ly to qua rrel, and to disturb the peace of the continent. There may be sou1ething in that ; but, perhap~, in such a country it would be diiticult to carry out any \'iew of that kind.

0.35. 4 u 4 10598. Viscount

bI. Fo"lrr, E." j' M. P.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

I 0598, Viscount Ebrillgtoll,] And besides, we might expose o urselves to the charge of injustice and oppression if we a ided and abetted a lal'ge a nd powerful country in stiU furt her subj ecting its neig hbour i-We could not du t hat without assuming an in te rfere nce that would be extremely in convenient, and d oub tfu l in it$ policy ,

10.599. H as not the practice hitherto been UpOIl the coast rather , to say t he leas t o f' it, not to di scourage dissensions between the diffe r\ln t pOlVe rs on th e coa,t ?-That, in my exper ience, has not been t he po licy, certain ly, I t hink the policy has been , as fa r as I have ob,ervecl it, to promote concord and amicable relations amongst (he nat ive tribes and c hiefs.

10600. I-l ave not Ire u nfurtunately taken a COlll'se wh ich has had the reverse effect upon more than one occasion '!-It is imposs ible to act upon any policy wi th reference to a people so pecu liar w ithout comm itting mistakes, but I am not aware that any evi l of that k ind lias res ul ted from our policy, or that our measures have been materially impeded by any mistakes of that kind.

10601, Do you not think that our influence with the nati" es was matPrial ly injured by the part we took in the quarrels between the ,hhantee and the l~a n tees?-There was on ly one of two COlll'SCS to be taken, either to leave the Ashantees to overrun the 'Fan tees, or to maintain, as fa r as we could, the inde­pendence of the latter. That we have done, and I think we now see that t hat policy is successful, because we have great influcnce witll the Fantees, and our influence with the A haotces is al 0 increasing; therefore I do not see ao)' reaRon to regrct the policy we have pursued in that respect.

10602, It is not your opinion that by the part we took ill that quarrel we retarded the advance of that country in its commercial intercour e with lIs?­I t hink sllch a result can only oe a umed upon the ground that it would have been better to pursue a course of policy that had in view to promote the power of one nation over the whole country in preference to maintain ing independent tribes.

10603. Mr. Wood. ] You ha\'e spoken of the increa e of Olll' t rade with t he Gold Coast; do you allude to t.he export trade from this couutry, or to the import trade from th ence to this cOllntry i-I conceive they mu t depend upon ea ch othcr

l oGo4. To which of the (wo d o you especially refer ?-When 1 speak of the increase of trade, of course I speak of thc illcreased export> fi'o m this countn', whicll will naturally and necessarily lead to increased importation from tlie Gold Coast.

10605. Do you apprehend that there ha been 3n increa e in our import t rade from the Gold Coa t equi\'alent to the increase ill our exports ?---Most unquestionably, otherwise the trade could not be pur~uetl; I, for one, wOlild very oon wash my Iland' oC it if 1 found that I could not get all equivalent return 101' what I sent (here.

10GOG. In spe:lki llg of' the increa c of our imports Crom the Gold COJ.St, do you speak of impol ts of tbe produce of the soil of Afl'ic,l, or do )'ou include ill those import spec ie 1-1'h(' importations from the Gold Co:! t arc chielly in gold du;t; 311110$t entirely in gold dust and plilm oil.

) n607 , Theil it is ~'our pillion that the re has been an increase ill tlie impol'tation uf the products of (he soil of ACrica, inclnding golel dust, equi\'alcnt to the increase of the exports from this couuu'y thilh cr ?-Decidcdly ,

10608. Yi.count Rbl'ingloll.J The Committee have heard u grcat dt'1l1 ill evidcnce a (JOut the (Juantit), of dollul's nnd doubloon 1\ hich aI'" ill eirculatioll un the coast in order to 1'0-" 1'01' ,lave.; do HIl)' of tho,e duli<lr, COniC l,;lck to En,; , land by 'loy of th e Gold ('oast i-,Not mun)', I think; a \'~ry ,llJall <juantity, I would say, comparcd with till' t(llal reltlrns,

lOGo,). j)ocs it appear thnt the dolhlr, lI rc not ill circulation a mong the nati"" upon the Go ld Coa,t/--Dollars are in ircul :uioll thronghout the II ho le CO,lSt; liS

far '" a IIwtnllie cUl'rency exists tit ull, it i ' princi pully ill dolh\rs, 10G IO. Auo th e use of tli III "ppeRr to be kllo\\11 by the n:.tll·",;-1).;

ciocdh'; We IlI\live. under.tnnd the vallie of dollars, Os w II ns 01' "cr.\tlllng cI," ur tIIRl IHltUl'C, quite a. lI'eli Jl ' E.lIrOp~llns,

10(; I I. Do Ihey "ppcllr to u.c th III in their cOllllllllnit'tlliOIlS wid. cach othel'?­Except 011 the II\O:;t barbarous puns of thl' const, 1 shull l,1 ,.IS that th ! \ . .111" of dollal" is perfectly lInder.tood; they ]lao, ('llirl'llt frl\J1l hUlld to I"lllll.

lUf)I..! h

SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF AFRICA. 705

10612. Is the trade carried on as barter, or are doll ars used as money is in Eng- IJI[. Forster, E'q. land, where an exchange of commodities takes place, as the representative value by M. P.

which both commodities are measured I-The system is different on different parts of the coast ; for instance, at the Gambia and at Sierra Leone and on the Gold 25 July 1842. Coast, the dollars and the quarter dollars (they are sometimes cut up into quarter tlollars) are extensively circulated and perfectly understood. .

10613. It appears that the exporls and imports into a country ought natura lly to balance each other. In addition to the goods which are exported from Africa a quantity of slaves are also exported from Africa; do you believe that the quan~ tity of specie in Africa is increasing, or that the slaves are merely paid for in barter, as far as your commercial tra.nsactions have afforded you the means of judging ?-J should say that ~hey are partly paid fO I' in goods and partly in money; the party receivingmolley in payment for slaves of course employinO' that money in the purchase of commodities in the usual manner. "

10614· Then if so, the small quantity of specie on the African coast must be continually increasing, or else some of it must find its way back here in exchange for manufactured goods; which of those two eases do you believe is the fact?­Unquestionably some portion of the doubloons and dollars that are used on the coast of Africa in payment for slaves find their way to Europe; however, the greatest portion of them I would say find their way to the United States; but a portion of tbem go to every country having commercial relations with Africa. I am sorry to say tbat the trade of other nations on the coast has very greatly in­creased of late yea rs, and that our share in that trade conseqnently has very much d.iminished, in proportion to tbe whole extent of trade carried on; I do not say that our trade has positively decreased, but comparativeiy.

10615. What do you apprehend to be the general course of those dollars, so far as you have any means of ascertaining; if you were to trace any particular sum of money, what would its course be in coming back from Africa ?-The dollars and doubloons are of course conveyed from Brazi l or Cuba, in a vessel either fitted for the slave trade, or in a vessel employed expressly for the purpose of conveying goods and money. Of course on arriving at tbe hands of the parties engaged in the slave trade on the coast, they are employed in the purchase of slaves, or in the purchase of anything else necessary in carrying on their trade, and then they find their way into the hands of foreigners or Englishmen who are trading on tbe coast, in exchange for goods shipped from America or Europe.

~06 1 6. Mr. TFood.] Are there any official records in this country of the imports which have taken place into this country of dollars and doubloons, or other specie from the Gold Coast ?-I know of no public records of such importations; the private records of course are the private books of the different merchants in London, Liverpool, and Bristol, carrying on tbe trade.

10617. Tbey are not reported at the Custom-house ?-No. 10618. Then no official information can be got upon the subject ?-No official

information can be got upon the subject; the only way in whicb you can measure the imports from Africa is by the exports.

10619. The question refers to the imports in specie; the exports you have tbe means of knowing; can you from that state tbe amount of the imports of specie? -If we know that a certain quantity or value of goods is sent from this country to Africa, we may infer pl'ctty nearly the amount of the returns, because we know that tbose goods would not be shipped without returns being made in exchange for them in some shape or other.

10620. What returns do you suppose would come from the West Coast to this country to provide payment for a bill of exchange, which, as you informed the Committee, was drawn by Pedro Blanco, a celebrated slave trader, on a mercantile ho'utie in the city of London ?-I do not suppose that any returns at all came to this country to meet that bill; I should think the returns for the bill went to Cuba.

1 0621. Ho~ do you suppose the hOllse drawn upon to be provided with funds - to discharge the draft ,-By remittances from the Havannah.

106:22. As returns for what ?-Returns for sugars and coffees, sent to the Conti-nent mostly. .

10623. In what way do you connect Pedro Blanco with the drawing of that bill r-His connexion with (be drawing of tbe bill is obvious enough if we assume that the man is a notorious slave dealer; his house at the Havannab lodges a credit with Messrs. Barinas in favour of Pedro Blanco; Pedro Blanco draws against

0.35. 0 4 X that

M. Forster, Esq. M.P.

70li MINUTES OF EVIDENOE TAKEN BEFORE THE

that credit to the amount advised, and there is an end of the transaction as far as Messrs. Barings are concerned.

) 0624. In exchange for what exports does Pedro Blanco receive the money? -I have already stated that I suppose that the return to the house at the Havannoh, wbich lodges the credit with Messrs. Barings, has been made in slaves, if not cap­tured on the passage.

) 0625. You have stated that you think that there are no official records from which tbe Committee can ascertain the amount of returns from the West Coast of ,\frica received in specie ?-None that I know of.

10626. Can you suggest any mode by which the Committee could obtain from mercantile houses engaged in the trade a return of that nature, without interfering improperly with their private transaction~ 1-Alltbat you could do would be to ask tbem; it would depend upon their pleasure whether they chose to give the infor­mation or to withbold it.

10627. Can you form any opinion 8S to the probable amount which has been annually returned to this country in specie, in the adjustment of the trade :-No, I cannot, never having directed my attention to that subject. If you were to ask me, in fact, at thi s Uloment the amount of dollars anu doubloons that our own house has received I could not tell.

) 0628. Have you any objection to state whetner it is considerable or not in proportion to the total amount of YOllr returns :-1 sbould say very inconsiderable.

10629. Chairma11.] Do you happen to know what 8mount of gold dust is imported from year to year1-I had a statement of it from Brown & Wingrove, the refiners. I think tbere is ao increase tbe last four or five years to tbe extent of about 30 per cent.

10630. Viscount Ebl·illgt011.] Can you sta te about the amount of it?-I tbink the amount for the last period given '1'85 95,000 l. for the J 2 months; but that is ch iefly confined to what comes to London, and not all that.

10631. 1\11'. rVood.] Are you a'rare of any difficulty or any objection that "ould exist to requiring returns to be made to tbe Custom-house of importations of spccie,-I see 00 objection to it, nor am I awarc tbat the mercnauts connected with the coast" ould object to such a regu lation; but I think you could not carry it out, because, comiug in in various ways, by passengers and other parties in their baggage, 1 do not see hoI\' it would be possible to make Rny arrangement of that hind that could be depended UpOD in case of imports of spec ie.

10632. The question was Dot intendeu to apply only to the coast of Africa, but to our commercial de" lings" ith other countries aenerally 1-1 should say that there woule! be !!reat difficulty in carrying out any regulation of thc kind in the case of money, which a mUll could land in his truok or in his pocket.

10033. The return would not be of uch sums of money as men might bring home in thei r pocket, but of those operations in wbich specic forms a feature in the commerce of the country ?-There is DO coill more portable than a doubloon, in proportion to its value, and therefore none more likely to he lanued in baggage or in a man's pocket.

10634. Are not doubloons frequently sent as remittances from that country, of which there are regular bills of lad ing, and all thc usual attributes of a commercial operation attending the tran acti on i-Ye .

10635. \Yould there be any difficulty in recordin Cl uch transactions a those at the Custom-house?-With such transactions as those I apprehend there would be no difficulty, except in the delay and trollule of counting or weiClhing tbem at the Custom-holl e,

10636, Would it not be serviceable to h,we such records, with the view of inves­tigating the cour c of our foreign commercial relations?- I do not think any­thing could be deduced from it of any alue, because I think it could ncver bc depended on.

10637. Sir T. D. AcI~lIId.] .Do you beli ve the tate onel resources of the Ashalllce countl'y to be such n to afforu a good field for Engli,h commercial cn terprise, if the disposition of the people " erc f"vourable, Ilnd if facilities for communication were obtaineu ?-l do not think the resource of Asbantee in itbclf tire con~ider8ble 01' important. The greatest part of the gold dust brought 1'1'0111 tha t quurter mcrely pa es thrO llb'h A hontec, upou which the Ashantec" 1 believe, Icvy an illlpost.

I u038. '1'1", qllc,tion is meant tl) extend (0 thl' II hole of the district imme­diatel) contlectcd ",ith Ashautcc, .1I1U which i to be rClIci)cu on ly through thot

cOllntry?-

SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF AFRICA. 707

country r- I think it is impossible not to expect, and that on very satisfactory M. Forster, Esq. grounus, tbat the whole of the trade in that quarter will graduaUy increase; I do M. P.

not think the increase will be very quick, but from what we have seen of late years, I see no reason to doubt tuat it will graduall y increase, and ultimately be 25 July 1842• of considerable importance to this country.

10639. Sir R. H. Inglis.] You have stated that you have read the cone­spondence before Parliament relative to the Gallinas; do you, or do you not, recollect that Captain Denman in that correspondence states that he found two British subjects held as slaves by' the Spanish factor for the purpose of exporta­tion ?-I believe it was so stated, but I have been also informed that there is great doubt whether it was correctly stated. '

10640. You mean tbat it jj'as doubted whether the information delivered to Captain Denman, upon whicn he acted, was correct r- Yes; I have heard tbet aoubted, bu t Captain Denman hav ing been on the spot, bas the advantage of knowing the facts best. But I wish to add, that if they were British subjects, and were so detained, I do not consider tbat any j ustification, either as respects· the law 'of nations, or as respects the expediency of the measure with reference to the probable effect on the character and future conduct of tbe native., of the proceeding's adopted by Captain Denman. My objection to these proceedings rests solely upon tbe effect of that bad example on the natives, and perhaps I may here quote Captain Denman's own evidence upon this subject. In a paper laid before this Committee by Captain Denman, he states, "The masters of the ships in the African trade are upon the whole highly respectable men, being very generally entrusted with all the duties of supercargo as well ; these, hOIl ever, are the penons most interested in toe attention of the Committee be ing ca lled to such conduct as that of which I have given iristances, as it cannot fail to be highly injurious to the genera l interests of trade, and tends also to produce (I had almost sa id to justify, considering tbe barbarous condition of the natives) acts of violence and retaliation in return, which rarely fall upon the guilty parties." Captain Denman here refers to some outrages committed upon the natives on the coast by the captains of British merchantmen. Now I quite agree with Captain Denman, that such acts of violence are likely to have the effects which he attributes to them; but at troe same time Captain Denman must take the appli­cation of it to his own case. The same reasoning leads me to conclude that his proceedings at the Gallinas being of a similar nature, must be attended with the like effects.

10641. Chairman.] Do you consider that the unauthorized acts of merchant vessels are to be placed upon the same footing as acts performed by the comman­der of one of Her Majesty's ships, in the protection of the liberty of British sub­jects r-As far as acts of violence have a tendency to brutalize the natives, I would say the effect must be cObsidered the same, and with this additional aggravation in the case of the Gallinas, because there they saw the property of individuals taken away hom them and sacrificed on grounds whicb I am quite sure they could not appreciate, because I think Captain Denman himself wauld scarcely venture to say that the l)atives and the native chiefs in the neighbourhood of the Gall i­nas are in principle opposed to the slave t rade; therefore they" could not regard an act of violence upon those men engaged in that trade, whom they have been in the hahit of encouraging to reside amongst them, in any other light than as an act of spoliation .

1 0642. You believe tbat they are not aware that tbe siave trade is reprouated by all European nations, however practised uy some ?-I do not think they have any correct notions upon that subject; at all events, not such as to enable them to discriminate in such matters.

10643. W hat y@u object to is the violence used upon the occasion; and you Olean to say that the object being to recover British subjects, you wo uld have re­commended proceeding in a different manner ?- 1 think such a proceeding cannot be attended with any permanent advantage as respects the trade, and in the mean" time I see in it very grea t danger of the natives being misled by it, and misapply­.iog it in a "ay that might hereafter prove very injurious not oniy \0 the com­merce of England, but also to tbe commerce of foreign nations with that country.

10644. When you were stating your view of the attack upon tbe Gallinas, you !lid Flot mean to imply any dou bt of the bon(! )ide impression on Captain Den­man;s mind that British subjects were there confined "you only doubted the accu-

0.35. 4 x 2 racy

M. Forst ... , Esq. u. P.

Capt. the Hon. J . Denman, n. N.

M. Formr, Esq. M. P.

708 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFGRE THE

racy of his information, and you disputed the policy of the act I-Certainly, I had no other meaning; I stated, that supposing it to bc correct that two British sub­jects were so detained, I would consider that not a sufficient ground upon which (0 have taken the measures th.t were taken upon that occasion.

10645. Sir T . D. Adand.] And you doubt whether the recognition of the Go­vernment authorities of the individuals as British subjects was not an error?­Not being in possession of such information as to cnable me to charge my memory with what took place at Sierra Leone, I cannot give an opinion upon that; but io any measures that were takeD, either by Captain Denman, or by the authorities at Sierra Leone, I have no doubt that they acted upon evidence that appeared to them satisfactory and correct to the best of their information.

Captain the Honourable Joseph Dellman, n. N. called in; and further Examined.

10646. Chairman.] WHAT evidence had you of those parties being British suh­jects whom you brought back to Sierra Leone ?-I found them in the barracoons mixed wi th other slaves for exportation; I took them to Sierra Leone; they were examined, both speaking English, by the Governor of Sierra Leone in my presence; the opinion of the Governor of Sierra L eone was, that it was most undoubtedly the fact tbat they were British subjects; one was a liberated African and the otber a Creole, born in Sierra Leone.

10647 . Mr. Forster.] Do you consider them, under those circumstances, as fairly and properly entitled to the appellation of British subjects I-As completely as any person in this room.

10648. Was the circumstance of your finding them at the Gallinas the g:rouDd upon which you took your proceedings there and burnt the place '-It was the principal ground of tbose proceedings; the grounds have been already stated in my former "vidence; I think that lI'a tbe most important ground.

J,JI'l'curii, 27° die Ju/ii, 1842.

Mr. Aldam. Yiscount Courlenay. Visconnt Ebrington. Captain Fitzroy.

M£MOEns pnES£NT.

~Ir. IV. Hamilton. ir R. H. Ingli •.

Mr. Milne.

VI COO).''!' SANDON, IX THE CU.\IIl.

Jy[al thew Forster, EsC]. a ;\Iembcr of the Committee; further Examined.

10649. Chairman.] IIA VE you any obson'ations to make upon any ubject~ connected with your last evidence ?-I was repeatedly pre ed to mention other follies and abu es at Sierra Leone, in addition to that relutilll! to the extl'B,'sgant expenditllTc on the church, to which I Applied the word" folly." Perbaps the word lias not well chosen, and I oup;ht to h,we used the term ,. job," but I u ed thc lIord ,. folly" os the milder term of the two. I have since made orne fur­ther inquiry on the subject, nod I would wi, h to sub tantiate my statement by a reference to some other mutters of the ume kind ; and r will take the evidence of a w;tn ss ill 183.5 AS f\ sample of \\ hot "'II going on at thut timc. I ought fir t to mention tbat 1 lI'as incorrect in . taling that the church had been finished. The church, 1 lind, is not yct fini hed. A gentl man, MI'. lIll<rhc , who was very lately in It, states thut ill altending Divine scrvice there, he bas seen, as nearly 11 he could cnl­culate, about nine-ten ths of the pews empty; he mentioned that to show how far it was ueYOI1lJ the wunts of the colony. Whil this wns the ca -e with the church, it is worth II'hile to see what was th ~ state of the gaol Ilt that period, and it ought to b recollccted t.hOllhc colony wos ' pecilllly establi hed for promoting reliO'ion, momlity, education, clv lli zution,a nd the !!cncrnl improvemcnt of Africa. The bllilclingitseUwils 01 the value probably of less thlln 1,000 I., tint! men, wornen, :md children, lunatics,

,kbtor"

SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF AFRICA.

debtors, and sick, were 'all huddled together without distinction of sex, or classifica­tion of crime; the tried with the untried; nothing to prevent their associatinc.r toge­ther night as well as day. The same witness states that no person there wo~d take a contract, because the bonus expected by those who were employed to make them was so heavy that they had no chance of making anything by an')' such employment. 1n addition to the cburch already mentioned, other churches and some schoolhouses were begun and left unfinished at the villages. Clocks, bells, and other stores were receivee, and left lying exposed to the weather and spoiled. Large sums have been expended upon the government-house, which was never­theless uninhabitable. The market-house was still unfinished, upon which large sums had been expended, and other particulars of the same nature. Now this witness, if the Committee tilougb t it necessary, can be produced on Friday; but I ought to mention that as respects the jobbing at Dhe colony, the worst of that took place previous to tbe year 1830. About the year 1824 I remember a Government officer going to the coast deeply in debt in this country; in a little more than a year he returned, and paid olf joint debts of himself and uL'Other to ' the amount of several thousand pounds, with the produce of one year's service at S ierra Leone, and if allowed I can prove that before the Committee. The ,alary of that officer was about 300 Z. per annum. There is one other point I wish to advert to; I was asked whether in point of fact I denied that the" exploits " of (;apta in Denman at the Gallinas had recei,·ed tbe approbation of the Queen's Governmen t at the time when the" exploits" were performed. Not anticipating such a question , I was not prepared to answer it; but I have since made some inquiries upon that subject, and I have reason to believe that exploits of that nature have been pronounced by the first jaw officer of the Crown to have been illegal and improper, and such as ought to be put a stop to fbr the future.

10650. Do yo u mean that the law officer of the C rown has given that distinct opin ion upon the acts done by Captain D enman as submitted to him '-U pon proceedings of that nature, including the Gallinas, that have taken place on shore on the west coast of Africa, I mean in the destruction of property. I believe it will be found upon inquiry that it is the opin ion of the Queen's advocate that the proceedings de,cribed as having taken place at the Gallinas, New Cestos, and Seabar, are not strictly justifiable, or such as can with safety be repeated. I was asked on a previous day whether I could state the proportion which the amount of returns from the coast of Africa in dollars and doubloons bore to the returns in tbe products of the country. I find upon inquiry, that in the transactions of our own bouse for a certain number of years up to tbe end of 1841, amounti llg to the sum of 1,081,128/., the total value of the doubloons and dollars is 29,391 Z., which I believe is under three per cent. From the statement which I have befo re me of the amounts imported in each year of the different articles whieh the bouse is in the habit of importing from the coast of Africa, I find that the principal increase is in gold dust, bees-wax, palm oil, and g round­nuts; and the greatest decrease is in gum Senegal, which from 23,6251. in 1832, has fallen off to 581 I. in 1 841.

10651. And you would say that the picture of your particular trade is a fair picture of the common current of the trade?- Yes ; and the more so because it is the only house that has connexions throughout the whole coa,t.

10652. From what point to what point ?-From the Gambia, including the whole of the British settlements on the coast. A question also was asked me about tbe gold-dust that is imported; I am able to furnish a return ofthe gold-dust from the coast of Africa, melted by Messrs. Browne and Wingrove, who are refiners for the Bank . It must be observed that this return is almostenti l·ely confined to Lon­d",n, and is not complete even with reference to London itself, inasmuch as it only includes the larger importations of gold to the Bank, and not the smaller parcels that may be assayed by private assay masters, a l;d sold to th~ private bullion deal­ers; but it may be useful as a means of companson of the different years to which it relates. [The same was delivered in, and 1·ead asfollows:]

GOLD Dust from the coast of Africa, melted by Messrs. Browne It Wingrove, in the Years 1831, 1832, 1840, 1841, with estimated value.

July 1831 to July 1832 -July 1832 to July 1833 July 1840 to Jul}l1841 -July 1841 to July 1842

{l·35· 4 x 3

lbs. £. - 1,502 - 1,550 - 2,120 - 2,007

value 67,590 69,760 95,400 90,315

In

M. For$tcr, E$q. M.I!.

~1. Forster, Esq. M.P,

27 July 18,p.

710 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

In oreler to show the Committee that dollars and doubloons are in circulation on the Gold Coast, I hold in my hand a letter we received two days ao-o to this effect: It is dated "British Accra, 6 May 184'2," and it says, "Enclo~ed is bill of lading for one thousand dollars and five doubloons shipped to you by the Sea Bird 011 account of the estate of the late Mr. J. H. Barrand." Those dollars and doubloons are from a part of the coast where no slave traele is carried on, and that sufficiently proves the fact that they are not confined to the slave trading dIstricts. Moreover I myself have sent specie to the coast of Africa from this country to purchase produce.

10653. Was Mr. Barrand a resident at Accra ?-He was. 10654. In the first of your former answers you recommend the establishment of

colonial posts ; what is the nature of the posts you intend ?-Block-houses with a small force sufficient to give confidence and protection to the trade in the neigh­bourhood.

10655. Do you believe that a single tower with a seljeant and a few men would answer the object that you desire in some cases ?-l think so, with the ad­vantage of naval protection either hy steamers or by sailing-vessels.

10656. With the advantage of a steamer passing up and dOlvn the river and known to be available, you tbink that a very slight force would be sufficient to give protection to commerce and to ex tend our influence I- Yes.

10657. Mr. Aldam.] Do you recommend forts particularly upon the Gambia, or upon the line of the Coast?-The places that I should recommend for the present would be Bulama, 011 the coast between Sierra Leone and the Gambia, and the river Cestos to tbe leeward of Sierra Leone, and tbe experience of those two would then enable the Goveroment to judge holl' far it was expedient to extend the system further; but Bulama in particu!ar r would recommend .

. 10658. Clzaimum.J Bulama would require a settlement a little more considerable? -It would.

10659. Vi count Courtenay.] You would not contemplate the establishment of posts in any situation except where trade is already existing ?-Only in places where they could he useful for promoting and extending our trade: at tbe same time there can be no doubt, as I before stated, that they would be most useful in repress ing and discouragin?; the slave trade.

10660. tllr. Aldam.] 'Would you recommend that any other posts sbould be occupied upon the G ambia?- High up the Gamllia; it is the opinion of the best informed persons who have visited tbe Gambia, and know the river and its resources best, that tbat is above all things necessary, because it takes you into the country; and as the natives have no means of carriage, the nearer you can get to them tbe better.

10661. Viscount Courtenay.] Does your observation in reference to the Gambia apply to the tract between M'Carthy's Island and Bathurst, as well as to the tract above M 'earth v's island 1-1 refer exclusively to that part of tbe river above M'Cartby's Island; ): have not heard auy complaint, Dor do I think it neces ary at present to e ·tablisb any post between the Gambia and M'Carthy's I land, and those po ts ougbt on ly to be established upon nece sity, beeau e undoubtedly the fewer of them we haw! the belter, consisten tly with due protection to trade, and exten ion of it. To do more would be a useles sacrifice of life aud money.

10662. Chairman.] Does not al~o the multiplication of \losts mnltiply the chances of our getting into difficulties ourselves occasionally /-1 do not think that, because I bave not found the natives upon any part of the coast, wben fairly treated, very troublesome, or difficult to govern or manage. The Rio Nunez is the only place where there has been any difficulty of that kind, but then it is to be recollected that we have never had tbere, nor Dear tbere, any force or any show pf our power to curb and restrain them.

10663. You contemplate only purchasing the ground immediately requisite for such fOl"ts, not the posse sion of sovereignty to any extent?-That is so much a question for th e con id eration of tbe Government tbat I feci diffident ill giving an opinioll upon the subject. In the case of Bulama, I think it would be ess ntial that we shou ld take the whole i land, to which, I believe, we have already " reasonable and fuir claim. Undoubtedly, if wc can safely Qnd propcrlyacquire territorial rights beyond the limi ts of our settlements, It would give us \!'catcr authority Ilnd power over the natives. til y own feeling is in favour of dOH1!l" so. I see no difficulty ill maintaining it with prudent management, because I have never found the natives difficult to govern.

10664. Viscount

SELEOT· COMMITTEE GN WEST COAST OF AFRICA. 711

10664. VIscount Ebrington.] fn carrying on trade with the coast of Africa if M. Forster, Esq. produce is to be bad, is not produce a better return than money ?- It dep~~ds M. P.

entIrely upon the pl'l ces of produce on the Coast. It has this advantage, that it offers to the merchant a better prospect of an ex tension of his li'ade, and the 27 July 1842• advancement of civili zation in Africa. I may say that nearly the whole of the produce Imported from Africa leaves a loss upon the current price a t which it 'is impor ted from the coast, and ,it depenc1s entirely upon the profit obtairied upon the outward Investment how far the trade is benefic ial.

10665. Chairman.] Wou ld you recommend that the settl ements on the River Gambia be rendered ind ependent of Sierra Leone, as respects their internal admi­nislra tion ?- That the Committee might have the advantage of knowing my opinion on the several heads of inquiry beforehand, and thereby be enabled to cross-examine me more effectua lly Gpon the differenl points, I have already laid before them my opinion on this subject, to the follo wing effect : I think it is very desirab le that the settlements on the Gambia should be rendered Independent of Sierra Leone. That is in my opinion the reform most needed by the Gambia, which has suffered severely by its dependance on Sierra Leone, where its wants' and interests have been treated with marked neglect. The next want: at that set ­tlement is that of a Council, in add it ion to which I woulel recommend a Judicial Counci l, composed of all the members of the Legislative Council (except certain law officers, who might be incapable from their duties of sitting on it), assisted by some of the leading in habitants. The simpler the fo rms, and the more their execution lies in the hands of the colonists, the better for the administration of the laws, and for the satisfact ion and improvement of the colonists themselves. The n ecessity for a court of justice independent of that of Sierra Leone is suf­ficiently apparent from the memorial of the residents in Gambia, and from Act­ing Governor Ingram's remarks thereon, printed for the use of the Committee; the magnitude of the evil would have been still more apparent had the paper No. 18, furnished by the Colonial Office, and purporting to be a return of the dates of appointment and of vacation of the various judicial and civil offices at Sierra J

Leone and the Gambia, contained the information it was desired by t he Com­mittee who applied for it to obtain; hut it will he perceived that the column of dates and causes of vacanci es contains so few dates, as to render the whole return of no value. The Colonial Office must certainly be in possession of such information as the date of Sir Henry Huntley's removal to Prince Edward's ' Island, of Chief Justice P lintoff's death , of Mr. Carr's promotion, &c., &c., none of which are given. But noth ing would tend, in my opinion, so much to promote the p rosperity of the Gam bia us a steamer, which has long been wanted there. It 'yould not only afford more quick communication with the upper part of the river, but, I think, fewer soldiers might he kept at the ~ambia itself and at the otber posts, and 1 think it would also supersede the neceSSIty of a vessel of IVaI' being sta tioned in the neighbourhood.

10666. By a " steamer," yo u mean a steamer with guns I-Of course. 1066..,. Commanded by a British naval officer 1-Yes. 10668. Do you mean that it should be conllned to tbe river, or that it shoul'd

go to the neighbouring coast I-It should go to the leeward, if necessary to pro­tect our trade there.

10669. Have you formed any opinion of the nature of tbe vessel which 1V0uld be ad vantageous for both purposes ?-I do not think a. large o~e would be neces­sary; I think one about the size of the tug steamers m the ltIver T hames, pro­bably of a differen t construction, drawing as li ttle water as possible; but I do not think any large 01' expensive steamer would be necessary; at all events, a small one might be tri ed in the first instance, till it is seen how the experiment answers. .

1 0670. You think that a small steamer would be safe upon the coast as well as on the rived-Certainly.

~0671 . The coast is not ex posed to great hurricanes 1- The coast is at present naviO'ated by very small ve~se l s, and even canoes.

1 ~672. H ave you form ed any idea as to ti le amount of the outlay and the annual expense of the es tablishment requisile fo r a steamer of tbis kind ?-My atten tion was drawn to it some few years ago, by our correspondent at the {Tambia proposing to me to send one out at n:y OWIl expense. I made some inquiries as to the cost and my ImpreSSIOn IS, that It would have amounted to somewhere about 4,000 t.' or 5,0001. as the outlay; the an nual ex pense, I should th ink, would not

0.35. 4 x 4 be

M. Forster, E'q. )J.P.

712 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

be very considerable, as compared with a vessel of similar size in this country. Probably she would be navigated hy natives; and if she were fitted to burn wood the expense of fuel would not ue more considerable than in this country for a similar vessel; and I have no doubt that sonle of the natives might be very soon taught to manage the machinery, for in matters of that kind, I belie"e they are rather quick. I do not myself see any difficulty whatever in navigating a steam­vessel there; and I think that the expense would be less, and the service much more efficiently performed by a steam·vessel than by a sailing-vessel.

10673. Might any part of the expense be defrayed by the commerce of the settlement ;-1 have no doubt of it; and though I have not expressed that, it is implied in the prollosition that the merchants would have the advantage of navi­gAting their vessels by her assistance up the river, which is sometimes a thing of very great difficulty indeed.

10674. Viscount Courtenay.] They would therefore be willing to pay for it?­Undoubtedly; because the advantages they would derive from it would be con­siderable. With reference to the future government of the Gambia, on its sepa­ration from Sierra Leone, a legal friend of min e, whom I consider of great experi­ence, and very competent to give an opin ion upon the subject, has furnished me with the following suggestions, which, with the leave of the Committee, I will put in. (The same was delivered in, and "ead as follows:) " It has appeared to me that, having regard to our peculiar position on the coa t of Africa, to the relations in which the representative of the Executive stands to tbe native chiefs, and the functions he has to discharge, we should unite in his person the judicial with the executive power. The Governor, if the executive be vested in one per-on, should have received a professional education as a lawyer, aod he should be entrusted with the administration of the whole civi l and criminal justice of the country. In criminal cases be bould be a sisted by six a sessors, who should possess a certain qualification, which would ensure thei r being person of character aud re~pectabil ity. It should 110t be required that they should be unanimous; a erdict by a majority would be sufficient. I think the Governor sbould be assisted by some sort of council ; til a or tbree gentlemen of consideration and weight. Some legislation must occa ionally be necessary; it should emanate from tbis body. The assistauts ought not however to be at li berty to originate anything; thc power of originating should be left entirely to the Governor, and of II ithholding his tl sent if any modifi­cation was imposed on his original proposition. Of COUl',e there 1V0uid be certain subjects wbolly excluded from thei r legislation. In case of tbe death of the G o\'ernor, the,e persons should e~(Tci se the government until his successor was appointed. I had intended to send you a more detailed sketch, lJUt I am not sur~ that the want of local information might not mislead me, so I state to you two leading principles \I hicb have truck me .tS those which should influence the erection of executive and judicial powers on the coast."

10675. You stated that the return Q)8d~ by the Colonial Office is of no ,/alue; you mean owing to tbe absence of some dates as to death or removal ?-It does not furnish tbe date~, and CO~l cqucntly it docs not furnish the duration of the vacancies that have arisen; it II as chiefly with the view of ,howing that, that the return was required. .

10676. You are desirous of bcing enabled to point out from that retorn the H1-

ten 81 which had clap cd betll een the occurrence of a vacancy and the ["c-occupa­tion of the pla,e by tbe succe or, and tbe con equent inconvenience inflicted upon th e colony by the occupation of importont place by substitutes '/-Ye.

10677. Would you recom mend that the local govemll1ent of the forts on the Gold Coast should be made independent of that of Sierra Leone ?-­The eltlemcnts on Lbe Gold Const are virtually independent of Sierra Leone already, and it is to thi ' we are to attribute their slIcces in diffusil1.7 order Mal hnmanity to the exten t they have done among the mo t ferocious and fonntdable of the African tribes. I must, 1\0\\ ever, recommend that they be placed under the direct admini.tralion of the Home Govemment; it i ouly to the fortune which has gCllerally attend d the prudent and able management of the local Government during the last twelve years that we are in,lebted for the compar.}­ti,'c prosperity and beneficial inOuence of those po ses 1011 '. The committee ill Englund cnn do nothing of consequ ncc wilhout onsultillg the Colonial Ollicc; the Colonial Office huving none of the pntronoge, is anxious 10 uvoid the resl~nn· sibi lity, aDd wh n it does interfere, not being fumiliar with the coun! of ofhcl'.ll conduct on the Gold Coast, and with the plans pursued, its interference 1,

generally

SELECT CqMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF AFRICA.

gene.rally dis~dvantageous. A large establishment at the forts would not be M. Forster, Esq. requIred; a JudIcial one in add ition. to a Legislative Council, with a Q ueen's M.J>.

A(!vocate, and RegIstrar, would be llIIl that is at present required, with military o.ffice rs for the command of the tr0ops. 27 J uly 1842.

) 06 78. I-J.ave you any remarks to o~er on the principles upon which we should mod el and Intr?ducc JudIcIal '?StItutlOns Into. our Africail dependencies, and on th e polIcy of. extendll1~ our mfl ue~ce over parts of the couAtry which it may not.be thought Just or advIsab le to subject to. territorial jurisdiction I-Upon that s~bJect I have already laId before the CommIttee the following remarks. EKpe­n ence h~s shown us th.at polItIcal r~forms, even in civilised states, should always be based upon thel,r O)'I~lD,d instItutIOns, and that t he new should retain as many features as possIb le of the old customs and prnlclples. Our own constitution contains abundan t evidence ohhe rudeness of our original institutions il) the semi­barbarous form s and maxims it preserves. On the coast of Africa then we should bend the state of sooiety w'e find into better forms, not plant for~i O'n i~stitutions as unfit to resist the climate as the officers who are to manage "them. Let u~ modIfy the natIve ~ustoms so as. to re~der the natives themselves not incapable hereafter of admlnlsten ng them 111 theIr amended state. The success of our ad­ministration of the Gold Coast may fairly be ascribed to this, that the officers in command at the difterent forts have had the wisdom to take the native laws and customs as their ru les, ex tracting from them, and bringing forward, that basis of justice which will always be found in tbe laws of the most debased tribes, and throwing into the background the cruelties and absurdities which, in a negro, as in an European code of laws, are corruptions only. In such judicious administration and comb ination of their own, with more enlightened principles, you wi ll have the sympathy and assistance of the natives . . While awaiting the improvement in our other colonial possessions of our native subjects, under t he best system we find it possible to introduce, I see no reason why in Africa, the country most needing the influence of our in telligence, we are to waive that moral power which we employ in India, and even in Europe and America. Let us rather not scruple to employ our superior power and information in in ter­ference with the native laws and customs whenever we think we can act with advantage, promoting among them mild and equitable government, in fonm snited to their habits and wants, and endeavouring gradually to raise them to that point of civi lization at which they will adopt altogether our system of laws and political institutions. It has been by pursuing sl,l ch principles, wllLcI~ every succeeding administration at Cape Coast Castle has found itself compelled to do, contrary to the general instructions from home, that Mr. Ivfac1ean's manage­ment has been so successful. His means, in money and men, have been most in-adequate; but his prudence and good sense, his strict but moderate adminis­tration of justice, and his unflinching but humane assertion of the superiority o.f European intelligence over the savages around the settlements, have extended the blessings of British influence over a wider space of country, and over a larger population, t han any similarly benefited in the neighbourhood of any other British settlement on the coast. It must be remembered that some of the natives with whom Mr. Maclean has had to deal are the most ferocious, proud, and powerful of any on the West Coast of Africa. .1 have had ~mple means, dUTing my attendance for five years as a member of the CommIttee of Mer­chants in London for managing the affairs of the Gold Coast, and durIng my 25 years' familiarity with the trade of the Gold Coast, for the observations which induce me to express this opinion of the system to be pursued in this respect, and of Mr. Maclean's conduct in pursuing it; and if my persona;! friendship for Mr. Maclean is 1:low strong, it has been solely created by my f~m iliarity with his conduct and meri.ts as a public serva~t; I have had no other connexion with him whatever. DUrIng the admInIstratIOn of SIerra Leone, m the course of th e last few years, some instances of the error and evil of declining to exert a natural influ ence over the neighbouring tribes have occurred, and are noticed in the following extracts from lettens. Mr. Hiller, a timber merchant at Sierra Leone, then in England, wrote on the 8th December last to Forster & Smith, informing them that he had just received intelligence from Sierra Leone, that a large quantity of the timber which he had collected in the Scar­cies River, nellir that place, had been taken a\~ay and sold b>: a natIve ch~ef: the answer given by the local Goverument to )us applIcatIOn jor redress bemg, that" Scarcies was out of the JUrISdIctIOn of the c,olony, and they could no,\

0.35. 4 Y Interfere.

M. For,ter, Esq. M , P.

714 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

interfere." Mr. Hiller went on to say, that he should have been more sur ­prised at Sitch an answer had he Dot know!) that" a short time back a boat had been plundered of goods to a considerable amount whi le on its way up the Sierra Leone R iver, and within what is called the jurisdiction of the colony, without any red ress being obtained, or t he Government taking the sl ightest notice of the act." He further observed, " that in the prosecution of trade the merchants were necessitated to forward their goods to the places wh ere produce was to be obtained, especially in the case of' the heavy and important article of teak timber, the natives bein~ in too poor and unciv ilized a state to pass it down the river to them;" and insisted on the necess ity of granting adequate protection to the parties who thus risked their property for the extension of trade in quarters it could not otherwise reach.

E X TRA CT from a LEITER received by Forster It Smit" from Mr. J. F. PelleY'ill, dated SielTa Leone, 1 8 October 1841.

" MR. CARR was doing everything in Ills power to protect the persous and property of the colonists and merchants among the surrounding tribe~, while Dr. Fergu~on, following in the steps of Lieutenant-colonel Doherty, would not interfere if a man belonging to the colony were murdered or his property plunde"ed, if it occurred out of the bounds or the colony. It is quite unsafe to have any properly in any of the native villages, for if you are robbed you "'et 00 redress. Only the other day, a complaint was made to the LieUlP.nant-governor, thro~ll the Colonial Secretary, by Mr. Hiller, on account ofa quantity of timber belon~ing to C~ptain Hiller in the Scarcies havin~ been taken and sold by a native chief; and the answer Mr. 11 iller received W8S, 'Scm'cles is out or lbe jurisdiction of the colony, and we cannot interfere.' I mention tbis to let you eo how the mercantile interests are protected, as we do not know how soon it may be our turn to be plundered also."

From these instances of the results of both policies, I would draw then the conclusion, that so far from restricting the power of our Govemors to the stl;ctest limits of jurisdiction and legal form, as recommended by Dr. Madden, they shonld be directed to omit no opportunity of availing themselves of their intercourse with the natives to extend our principles of justice and policy to the regions beyond our territorial limits. In addition to tbat I sbould wisb to mention, as a further confirmation of the beneficial results of the po),cy of I\[r. l\Iaciean's gOl'el'llment, that I believe in no country in Ellrope is property more ~afe tban it is on the Gold Coast. It is stated, and I believe with perfect truth, that a Olan might travel any distance in tbat part of the cootinent with gold dust in his possession without the slil'htcst danger of being plundered; indeed, with less danger of being robbeu than in this country.

10679. You speak of Colonel Doherty refusing to interfere " if a man belong­in<1 to tbe colony were murdered, or his property plundered, if it occurred out of tb~ bounds of the colony." You observe the observa tions ofColooel Doherty upon that subject, in his remarks upon Dr. Madden's Report; he says, "They are them el"es," that i , the merchants, "in a great degree to blame for the present state of affair ; for the fault has ll Ot altogether been that of the Government and the chiefs. The traders have them el"es prejudiced their trade ill the rivers by their own injustice and violence, or by not sufficiently discouraging that of their agents employed there. In all cases of compla ints of the exac tions of the chiefs on our ubjects in lhe rivers, which were made to me in Sierra Leone, I found the fault to be iuvariably with the complaining porty; and the louder the complaint thc grenter the injustice was proved to be with which the natives had been treated. I allude more particularly now to occurrences wh ieu took place in the river careie, uut there was no want of similar instances in the othel' rivers." You se , therefore, that Colonel Dohcrty does nelt admit the allegation in the leLter, that he had declined to afford red res in ca e' where the complaint 8gain~t the natives was in hi opinion justified ?-My statement is founded entirely upon the represcntations made (0 u by our correspondent. With re~ renee to the state­ment of Colonel Doherty, it i ~ quite natural, of course, th~t he should make the best defence he cnll in answo r to thut charge, uut I have never he~rd of any pal'licular olltrnges or 8!(grcssion 00 the purt of the Uriti h lrad I" there; and c"cn if that wcre the coso, I do not thinl thnt 1I'0uld ju tify hi refu 'ing to interfere; on thc contrary, I think it renders il the more neees ory, becllu 'C whcn he founu that the natives lI'erc tnking justi ~ into lhcir own hllnd in lhis mauneI', he sllould hnve sent to th' spot '\lld Illude inquiry, and if the native had allY I\'rou11d of complaint hc should hllve seen justice dOllU UelIVeLl them, butnol ulloll' them to take tilt' law illto (heir O\\'Jl hUlld~. 'l'llUt b the coul'.e lhut M,\ l\1aclcan 1I'0uid have

pursued

SELECT, COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF AFRICA,

pursued ~n the case of any outrage committee! in the neighbourhood of Cape Coast, ,1 herefore that "ppears to me to ue no Just grou nd for refusing to interfere, cyen If Jt were correct. .

. 1.0680. You wo~lrJ.not have the Governor shut himselfup so strictly within the ,limns of .l ega l ,Ju,t'lsdl:tlOn, but that he should interpose effectually in all cases whIch anse wltllln IllS own neighbourhood, where any Dritish merchants are concerned, eltber as complalDants or as complained against 1-1 think it is the. only way In which our settlements can be of any service either to us or the natives.

, 1068L ';Vhat remarks have you to make on the past efforts for the introduc­tIOn of lmproved agncuitllre on the. ~ est Coast of Africa, on the probable ~auses of t helf fallure, ang on the pnllClples you would point out for guidance In future efforts?-The at(empts at cultivation in Western Africa proceeding from England have been almost entirely confined to Sierra Leone, and their his­tory commences with that of the S ierra Leone Company. In the Report of that Company for 1794, they proclaim their objects to be, "to promote culti­"allon, advance civili zation, diffuse morality, and induce some attention to a pure system of religion in Africa!' Very shortly after the arrival of the first cololllsts an expefl~enta l plantation was establi shed, and a long list of the most "alliable plants whIch the country could produce in perfection was published; the list resolving itself into the simple fact, that the country being a tropical country, would produce any tropical vegetable production, a fact which I beg the Com~Jttee to remember is the basis of many highly-coloured pictures of the fertli!ty of newly-settled lands. The plantations of tbe Company never advanced beyon d promises, and the Company itself, after being a heavy ,burthen to the subscribers and to Government, withon!' effecting anything of any Importance towards' the objects it had in view, was broken up, and the settlem ent surre!ldered to Government, which paid a sum of money for the buildings erected, on the transfer, whi le it had previously paid a sum of 100,000 l . for the improvement of the colony. Previous to this event, the

active parties in the Company got up another association, called the " African Institutioll," as a new engine to uphold their influence. The " Institution" was graced by many high names, and undoubtedly the great majority of its sup­porters were influenced by motives of the purest benevolence. The active agents in its management were Mr. Macaulay, Mr. Stephen, Mr. Thornton, and some others. In 1807 tbey began, as they had done in 1791, under another name . Their report published in 1809 contained the usual list of tropi~al products as afforded in perfection by the colony, and they added to the Irst some, which any person acquainted with the subject must have known :would not be articles of extensive Or successful growth in a hot and damp clllllate. They enumerated "hemp, rope, cotton, silk, sugar, tea, bark, camphor, castor oil, tobacco, &c. &c." The succeeding reports contained similar delu ­sive statements, until about 1&12, "the directors are disappointed not to have had before this time some more specific detai ls to produce with respect to the progress of improvement in Africa by means of schools and other institutions under the patronage of the society." Notwithstanding this disappointment the directors went on amusing the public. year by year with their reports, promising "to diffuse information respectlDg the pro­ductions of Africa, its capacity for agricultural improveme~t, the. moral and political condition of its inhabitants; to promote the Illstru~tIOn of the natives in letters and useful knowledge, to endow schools for readmg and writing English, to cultivate a friendly connexion with the natives, ,to enlighten

; their minds, to induce t hem to substitute a benefiCIal commerce for the slave trade to introduce amonG' them the useful arts of Europe, to promote the cul­

, tivati~n of the African soil by exciti ng and directing their industry, by furni sh­in'" them with seeds, plants, and implements of husbandry." From time to tig,e Mr. Macaulay recei ved premiums an,d presents for the supposed success of his exertions in promotinG' the culti vatIOn of tropical produots, the samples

' sent home to produce the pr~miums being of course nothing more than samples, to collect small quantities of rice or cotton in tolerable condJt~on be1l1g a matter not very difficu lt. The Institution commanded the whole :nfluence of Government, it was aided by considerable funds, and by the I?rest~ge of many of tbe first names in the kingdom; yet notillng was done, and httle was even at­tempted. The colony enjoys at this moment no fruit of the efforts saId to be made,

' 0.35. 4 Y 2 and

M. Forster, Esq. .M . P.

M. For,ter, Esq. M.P.

'7 July 1842.

716 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

and for even its schools it is indebted to the Wesleyan and Church Missionary Societies. The Institution finally sank, and some years elapsed before it was sutfi ­cientl.y forgotten to admit of the establ ishment of the" African Civilization So­ciety," founded with views as benevolent, and, as melancholy recent occurrences have shown. as mistaken, on the part of the subscribers and managers generally. To that society I became a subscriber. in the hope that pa;t experience might have sobered the minds of its more active members into rational and moderate plaDs of improvement. I very early found that there were parties connected with it as ready as any who had gone before them to encourage the public to support them in expensive and impracticable agricultural experiments, and on finding that a company for that PUI'pose was about to be formed I addressed a letter, containing the following observations, in reply to an application for my opinion on the subject. I fear that my uggestions were at the time LlOt very well received, and that the remarks had their share in producing the charge of interested opposition to the benevolent plans of t.he society brought against the merchants, and particularly against a gentleman, Mr. Jamieson. of Liver­pool, whose efforts. aod expenditure in his efforts, to open a commercial intercourse with the interior of Africa by way of the Niger, have been all a scale rarely paralleled, el'en in this couotry, which has produced so many splendid instances of individual enterprize.

EXTRACTS from Mr. Forster's Observations on the Scbeme of the" Royal African Company," dated 4 September 1839.

In opposition to the Niger scheme, I observed that" The society may plant itself on dif­ferent parts of tbe coast. and particularly in the neighbourhood of Sierra Leone, where labour and protection are already at hand, and from which it may grad ually extend its operations to more hazardous portlOlIS of the coast so soon as it has acquired the necessary experience. and can take with it from its old to its new 10c:ltion. natives properly in­structed in tile art of cultivation."

" The ad vllntoge of the system of extinguishing the slave trade by settlements on shore is sufficiently proved on those parts of the coast where British power and influence are already established . From the ueighbourhood of Sierra Leone, tbe Gold Coast, and the G1lmblU, which were formerly the greatest marls fur the slave trade, it has enti rely disap­peared. The same resu lts would follow from the same influence el ewhere. Had the island of Bulama nnd the neighbouring islands forming tile cluster called the Bijuga Islands, which are the mo.t fertile and desirable on the whole coast, particularly BulamB. and wbich command the opposite con till€'_nt and rivers, been take-n po session of some ye.ars ago, the slave trade would h."e been long since put down in tbat quarwl' in place of flourishing as it has done to the prescnt moment. It is to the neighbourhood of Sierra Leone, and to those islands near the Gambia, that the society ought first to direct its attention and the attention of Go,·erumen!. To commence its operati"us in the vicinity of the Niger would be, in my opinion, to begin where the society should cuu, and in its pr ent infant stat~, I rear such a course would be lata! to its success.

In these observations I speak of the Civili~ation ociety as distinct from the proposed joint-stock speCUlation, which I understand to be a separate concern, and whicb, ill my opinion, is a scheme" hich, with 0. view to lhe profitable mvestmentof capital, must fail, on whatever part of the COl\J3t it is nttempted."

I have entered on this very imperfect summary of the dazzling schemes of cultivntiol l proposed, and of their total failure, to remind th Committee, that with such examples before their eyes, any similar attempts OLl the part of future adventllrer would be worse than foolish. I will ad(~ thnt we are not the on ly people who have been deceived by thc apparent advantages offered by Africn to the cultimtor; that the French have expended very large sums in a simi lar manner on the banks of the Senegal. I do not up pose that the e1furts made have been \"(~ry vigorous, but the Portuguese have been long settled 011 tbe south-western coast, in the only climate of tropical Africa in which a town of­whit people (St. Paul's dp Loando) ha been ab le to ari e, and on n soil said to be excellent, without their settlemcl1ls being more ad,'allced in point of culti­vation, as compared with Brazil, than is Sicrrn Leone as compared with Demerara. The only great agri cu ltural improvements intl'Oduccd ou the canst within my knowledge. nre ill fac t merely c1 eydopm cllts of branches of indU'try already cxisting among the natives. One of these is the palm oil trade of' the Bight of Belljn, cl't'atcd within the memory of man ; the other the trade in ground nuts, from the Gambia River. This llttter is a trade created inc 1835; lnst year fi'om lon,Ono to 120,000 bushols of tho nuts werc exported, while Coloncl Findlay ~latcu, when lately in London, that when he wns stationed in the Gambia. lh foliage of the plant , which is abundant in corupnri on with the

fruit,

SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF AFRICA.

frui"t, was not always to be procured as foddei' fo r horses. Both of t11 ese articles lifo Forsler, ES9' of oil and g rou nd nuts, it wi ll be ubserved, were known of old to the natives' M. P.

they were filmi liar with the cultivation of the nut, and with the collection and .preparation of the palm oil; and the quantities produced have kept pace with '7 J,dy , 842 •

the demand. So the production of hIdes, between the Gambia and Sierra Leone, of Ind ian corn on the Gold Coast, in consequence of one season's unusual demand, and other less remarkable instances, show that the African's supposed Jlldolenoe disappears when you reqUire him only to g row an increased amount of any article with which he is already fa miliar, in place of calling on him to attempt an untl'led and d ifficu lt cu lture. My commercial experience affords so cle3Jr an .exemplification of my v~ews on this subject, thM I beg to bring it forward. My firm has embarked considerable CApital In two manufacturing enterprises in this country, the raw matenal for each to be supplied from 'Africa. In] 833 we bu[lt a mill for cleaning rough rice, a process which it may perhaps not be known to all . the members of t he .committee is one requiring .verY complex and expensive machJll ery, the rice to be supplied from the coast of Africa, and more especiall y from the Gambia. Samples of very excell ent rough ri ce had been brought thence, the river and the neighbouring coast abounded in land fit for the cultivation of that grain, and the natives were accustol)1ed to produce it as a- principal article of their food. In 1837 we built a mill for expressing oil f rom th e ground nut, an article for producing which the coast afforded equal faci li ties as for producing rice. The rice-mil l failed, the oil-mill succeeded, and for reasons strictly in accordance with the views which I have expressed to the Committee. it is tl'lle that the soil and climate of the Gambia are well suited for the growtb of paddy, but the natives, familiar with its cultivation in a careless way, !lire as yet incapable of giving it that constant andjL1dicious atten-tion which it requires for its production in perfection. "Ve have long been compelled to employ our rice-mill in cleaning American and East Indian rough rice. On the other hand, the ground nuts produced excellent oil, with no other care than that of preserving them from damage after the crop; their cultivation required from the African no attention other than that he was accustomed to be-stow, and he has cheerfully increased the quantity, in the manner and to the extent 1 have before noticed. I cannot claim for the firm of which I am a member the sole merit of thus increasing the industry of the Gambia; a large demand for the American market, in which they are sold for consumption as a fruit, also stimu-lating the g rowth of ground nuts. Considering then the readiness oftlie negroes to undertake the laborious cnltivation of those articles, t he growth of which they understand; considering also the amazing patient industry exhibited in many of their manufac tures,-aud their woven cloths tax the ingenuity of imitation of our' Manchester manufacturers,-I would submit to the Committee whether it i,~ not rather intelligence to learn new arts, than industry to follow those they know, which is wanting, and whether it is not necessary to await their gradual mental improvement before attempting to introduce among them unaccustomed modes of agricu lture.

]0682. Sir R. H. Inglis.] Will you explain whether by tbe words" active parties of the company," and" active agents in its management," you mean the same parties, that is to say, the pal·ties who in the same line with the last quota­tion are specified by name, Mr. Macaulay, Mr. Stephen, and Mr. Thornton, meaning, it is presumed, the late Zachary Macaulay, the late James Stephen, and the late Henry Thornton, E~qrs. ?-I allude to those gentlemen.

10683. Will you explain what you mean by the phrase that the African Insti­tution was" a new eugine to uphold their influence" ?-I mean this, that Mr. Macaulay having been engaged in carrying on the Sierra Leone Company, he and h is friends naturally wished to promote 3Jnotiler institution after the extinction of the company, for the purpose of maintaining his influence in relation with Siena Leone.

~ 0684. Do you consider that the infl uence of the late Mr. Stephen, and of the I",te Mr. Henry Thornton, coul<!l be said to be at all upheld by the e~tablishment of the African Institution, or any similar undertaking in connexion with Africa ?-I con­fine that to the influence derived fr0m being active and prominent members of an institution professing great and popular obj ec t~) bllt I do not mean to say that the motives of Mr. S t~phen and of Mr. Thornton can be considered to have been exactly the same as those of Mr. ,Macaulay, because Mr. Macaulay was connected in business WIth SIerra Leone, ane! therefore had objects to gain by keepmg the

0.35. 4 y 3 attentlQn

],f. Forsier, Esq. M. P.

7 18 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

attention of the Government fixed upon that place, and promotin" expenditu re with tbe professed obj ect of serv ing Africa. "

10685· T hen so far as regards the l a t~ 1\lr. Stephen and the late Mr. lIenry Tbornton, y.ou wish. the Committee to. conslCier that you du not attacb to those gen­tlemen any IInputatlon, whatever the ImputatIOn may be which YOll desire tu attach to the tlmd party named, namely, the late 1\1r. Zachary Macaulay ?- 1 do not wi,h to cast any imputation on anyone, but, if I am obliged to speak, I mean that they co~ ld not. be expected to be benefited in tbe same way as Mr. 1\lacaulay; therefore their mollves of course were sl)mewhat different, and confined princi­pally to that distinction and eclat and credit which accrues iu this country in cases where societies are promoted for the purpm;e of carrying out popu lar objects.

10686. Then the Committee are to understand that by the phrase" an engine to uphold their influence," you mean merely that kind of popularity which the pro­motion of objects professing to be good in this country is likely to ensure to parties so occupied I-The part which 1\1r. ::>tephen and Mr. Thornton took in that in ­stitution, I have no doubt partook principally of tbat character.

1 068i. When you ay "partook princ ipally of that character," do you mean to insinuate that eitber of those I(entlemen haJ any pecun iary interest in the for­mation of tbe institution in ques tion, or any interest at all, other than that popu­larity which may result from tbe promotion of a professedly good object ;-1 mean that there are other objects of ambition and interest in this world besides pecuniary interest, and I mean tbat theirs partook more of the former than of the latter.

10688. Do yo u mean that they had any pecuniary interest whlltGver; the question is repea ted, inasmuch as the last answer trea ted it as a question of more or less ?-No; I do not mean that they personally had any intere t in the institu· tion, but they allied themselves with otbers who had.

10689. Then, so far as the late 1\1r. Stephen and the late 111 r. Henry Tborn ­tun are concerned, tbe Committee are to under tanel that you exempt them alto­gethcI· from the charge \I bich tbe words contained in youl· fi,·st answer UpOD tbis subject might be supposed to inflict upon them ?-1 exempt them from any other ulame than that of lending th emselves to the promotion of aD institution by which the public confidence and the interests of Africa were ultimately very much aoused.

10690. Then the wbole force of the objection stated in your fonncr an-wer is limited to the personal character and conduct of the late Mr. lIIac8u lay; do you mean that the late Mr. Macaulay derived any pecuniary interest from bis COn­

nexion \I ith tbe African Institution ?-A very large pecuniary interest, in my opinion.

10691. Ilid be receive any alary as secretary to the African Institution ?--No, he did not; he received that which amoun ted to a great deal more ; he employed the institution in carryinl( out most ex pen ive plans for the improvement of Alrica, which never had any other efreet than that of promoting Mr. Macaulay'S olVn per onal interests and objects.

10692. Are you prepared to tate the a,ggregate sum expended during the t:xistence of tbe African In titution upon ierra Leone i-I h8ve not come pre­pared with sny statistical inforlllation upon that subject; I wi h to add, that I do not all ude to the money thot the institutioo itself spent upon Sierra Leone, but the money which, through the influence of the institution, tlw)' induced the Govern­ment to expend upun it.

10693. The third in titution to which you have called the attention of the Com­mittee is the Africnn Civilisatinn Society, and YO ll tate that to that institution you became a subscriber; and in tbe last paragraph of your letter dated the 4th ol" SC]Jtemb r 1839, from which you have read an extract, you cxpre Iy distingu i h the Civilisation, oeiety from (. the proposed joint stock speculation." Does it not appea r from your 011'0 statement, begillning, " I very early found that there were part ies connected with it," compared with the 19 t sentence of your letter of the 4th of eptember, tbat the parties engaged in .. expcn 'ive and impracticable agri­cultural experilllents," were not the parti(; forming the Africao Civilisation Society;-1 uelieve that the active parties were the same in uoth.

10694. On the 23d of' July t 39, a meeting was held of certain individuals,. Ilt which meeting the following motion was mad, : "Resolved, thnt it lIlay be ot the Ul1110-t imporhlllcc to the suppression of the slave tmdc, and the ci "ili,nuon of Africa. thut an in.titution fOI· Ilgriculturo.l purposes, wholly distinct. fr~m !he

rn"lltutloll

SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF AFRICA.

ins~itution named in the fi rst resolution " (which had relation to the Afr ican Givili- M. Forster, Esq. satlOn Society), ': shall be fo rmed, and ~hat a provision al committee be ap pointed M. P.

for the cons IderatIOn of tills subject; . that the follow ing noblemeu and gentlemen be the provIsIonal comm l tt~e fOl' consIdering the formation of an African Arrri cul- 27 July 18,,2. tura l Association;" and amongst olhers, M atthew Forstel', Esq. Will you state to th e Commltte~ whether at that meeting yo~ were prefent, and, whether you assented to tl"s resolutIOn or dIssented from It ?-1 attended two or three of the meetings .. I have no recollection whether any such motion as that was passed at any meetll1 g whIch I attended, nor do I beli eve that I was present on that occa-SIon, nor do I believe that I signed my name to any such resolution.

10695. The question is not w h~ th er you signed your name, but whether you were present and allowed your "ame to be put down, or did not signify any dis­sent to It ?·- So far from putting down my name, or giving any sanction , or au tho­rity forputting it down, tbis is the firs t time that ever my attention was call ed to the subject, and I can hard ly express my surprise a t finding my name $tandin" upon the list whi ch has been just read. 0

10696 . The motion quoted was proposed by John Irving, Esq., M. P., and seconded by Samuel G urney, E sq. Shortly after the meeting at which tbe above resolutIOns were adopted, Sir George S teph en sent a paper to the African Civilis­ation Office, il:ti t u ~ed , "Outline of the Royal African Company," with a reques t that copies .of I t mIght be sent to such gentlemen on the committee of the Agricul­tural AssoclatlOn as were practically acquainted with African affairs; copies were accord ingly sent to several of the above committee (Mr. Forster being one), re­questing their opinion on it. Mr. Forster in reply transmitted a paper in ti tuied "JVlr. Forster's observations on th e scheme of the Royal African Com pany." Nei ther the scheme nor the observations appear ever to have been laid before tbe committee of "the African C ivilisation Society," nor is there any further notice of tbe subject in the records of its proceedings. Does this statement bring to your recollection anything more of the subject to which the question refers ?-It brings to my recollection nothing' more than this, that such a paper was sent to me, which I have in my possession, and which I will produce to the Committee, on perLlsing which tbey will see very clearly, from the very strong terms in which I conde):nn the proposed speculation, that it is quite impossible that I could e\' er have given any direct or indirect sanction to any such schem'3. The original paper sent to me, together with my answer, I no w produce to the Committee. (The same was delivered in.) I wish to add, that I believe that so far from the Civilisa­tion Society having nothing to do with the project in question, the scheme was lithograph ed and signed by the secretary of that society.

10697. Chairman,] H ave you any remarks to offer upon the character for com­mercia l integrity of the colony of Sierra Leon e r-Evidence has been brought before th e Committee in proof of the delay and misapplication of funds in the ad­ministration of property of deceased persons in the colony of Sierra Leone, and I am myself almost afraid to startle the Committee by stating the result of my own experience. Except when the party dead had friends on the spot, I doubt whether there is any case of executors or administrators faithfully accounting for the property to the heirs or administrators in th is country_ Tbe evil is of long standing, and existed previous to my knowledge of the colony. I will g ive one case out of many which I might adduce, as having come within my own experience. A merchant died n ear Sierra Leone, leaving 10 children, most of them very young, and a large property in charge of t he agen t of a house in Sierra Leone. The property (believed to amount to not less than from 15,000 l. to 20,0001.) was converted, and mixed up with the affairs of the bpuse I have mentioned. In about 11 years afterwards the agent died; the principals of the house for which he acted in this c?untry, and i;,to. whose business at SIerra Leone he had put the property, clel1led all responsIbilIty, and refused to pay the children 1 s. It happened that some African produce, which could not advantageously be reali zed in Sierra Leone, had formed part of the stock in the deceased's store, and thi s was sent to England to t he house for sale; it amounted to about 2,000l. T he house rendered to their agent an account sa les of this produce in the name of the estate, and in this way had marked, by mere accident, the property beyond dispute . . T he account sales happened to fal l into. the hands of a gentl eman, in the colony, a fr iend of the children, who transmItted them to me, and havmg three of the male chIldren .on my hands at sch.ool, being in advance several hu ndreds of pOllncis for their

0.35. 4 y 4 educatIOn,

M. FQTsIer, Esq. II.P.

720 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

education, and without a shilling of their property, I commenced an action against the parties. After 10 years of most troublesome and expensive litigation, by which the amount was reduced to about 1,400/., I recovered the money, and the sum of 1,400l. was all the children received from their father's large property.

10698. I"Jr. Aldam.] To what cause do you attribute the want of commercial integrity at Sierra Leone of which yo u ~omplain ?-It ,,"ould be difficult to ac­count for it without going in to the entire hi story of the colony. Early bad com­mercial example and bad governmen t have been the chief causes; shame has ceased to afford tbe usual mora l check on the conduct of individuals. It has been the constant custom to take lIdvantage of dead men's property, whenever the opportunity presented itself, and the facil ity afforded by the numerous lega l forms of the place, bas assisted in enabling anministrators to bid defiance to a European creditor. Perhaps I may here add a wo rd or two on the spirit of party and pa rty influencc, all eged to have existed at Sierra L eone. This has long been a ground of compla int, and a mere consequence of the system of Colonial misrule pursued there fo r so many years past, and pursued with a safety and impunity unknown perhaps in our larger colonies, which are more under the public "'ye. The system, as might be expected, is denied; genera l disclaimers are set up against the notoriety and experience of year, and tbe parties may safely do so. Such things are not done through tbe medium of public despatches, or before witnesses; they are not written on the walls of the Colonial Office, or in front of Government-bouse at Sierra Leone; they are to be seen and fe lt only in their effects upon our colonies, not to be read in the records of Do\\ning-street, nor extracted from the confessions of the parties concerned in them . For myself, I have no personal feeling on the subject; I ' never saw 1\1r. Stephen in my life, till 1 saw him the other day io this room; nor do I advert to the subject at all, but for the purpose of preventing such abuses for tbe future. l\Iost other mea placed in similar circumstance, with tlJe means within their reach, would have done the same as they have done; it is the system I aim at and not the men . While on this subject, it is but fair to mention another apology for these abuses, namely, the magnitude of our colou ial posscs ions, and tbe cumparatively inadequate aod imperlect machinery in use lor governing them. Under the pre ent system, good government for our colonies is impossible. The constant change in the superiol' authority at home place the admini,trati, e power practically in tbe hands of the permanent servants of the office, more especially in the case of the inferior colonies. I would a k whether it is pas ible that allY single man, however splendid his talenLS, or intense his iDdustry, can do more than skim the surface of even the 1U0 t important of the mailer. which lDu ' t neces orily and ince 'antly engage his attention in admini ­stering the affairs o( such a colonial empire i\ ours? In my hnmlJle opinion, and I would adduce the "overnment of our African pos essioo in proof of it, the time is approaching wi,en somethi ng must be done to remedy thi evil, if ,,-e wish to rctain our colomes in a state of ecurity and prosperity, and to derive froro them 011 those important advantage which they are capallie of uffordiug the mother country, anti \\,hich LI,e hostile toriffi; IIDd jealousy of foreign governments Seem to render daily more uecessary for tbe maintenaoce of our power and prosperity.

10699. Viscount Coul'tc/lay.l Have you had any reason to complain of want of inform~tioll a t the Colnninl Office on matters relating to the trade and condition of the \\' est 'oast of Ali-ica ;-l can give a \'cry striklllg il1stance of such cau '0 of complaint, in the case of Ii considernble quantity of coffee imported by us from the Rio unez. The firSL parcels were admitted by the Government at a low dut", but on the complaint of the '''est India Bod)" larger parcels, wbich arrived subsc­quently, were stopped, and a lengtl:tencd correspondence eosued bctw en u and ~be Trcasur~ on the sulijcct. which was printed for. the use of P8rli8meLI~ ~,n t~e ~~tlon 01 111 r. Ell-a rt, on the 12th of August 1 39, elltllled " Coffee, No. 5'28. 1 be lre'l­sllry \lere most nnxious to a!lord us rcli~f, uod in their allxicty for that purpo,e, they cu~t around them for some apology or reason for allowing it to be continued lit Ii low duty, und lor thi. purpose they udell' ssed a l~tter to ir George Grey on the 2ith of follrllu ry I ~38: "Sir, The Lords Commissioners of Her Majesty's 1'rch,ury huving received .everul applicntion ' froln parties who have requcst~d penllis ion to elller at the low rate of duly cotlce, the g rowth of the Wl~st Const of Africa, I huve it in cOlllmund from tlleir Lordship to rcquc.t you WIll move

r.ortl

SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF AFRICA. 721

Lord G lenelg' t? cause my Lords to be informed whether tbere is any commercial M, Forster, Esq, settlement at RIO Nunez, on tbe West Coast of Africa, and whether the country >I, p,

~s consIdered 111 any way as a dependency on Sierra Leone, and also whether coffee IS gro" n to any extent in. the neig·bbourhood of Rio Nunez. (signed) F. Baring." 27 July 1842, To till s letter the fo ll OWIng very extraord inary answer was returnd sic-ned by Mr. James Stephen: " Downing-street, 6th March 1838 :-S'ir, Having laid before Lord Glenelg your let.ter of the 27ub ultimo, I bave received his Lordship's direc-tIOns t.o request 'you WIll stat~ to tbe Lords Commissioners of the Treasury that the coo ntnes bo.rderll1g on the RIO Nunez are not considered as dependencies of the colony, of Slerr~ Leone; tbat h~s Lordship is not aware of any commercial settle-ment 111 that I'Iver, as contradlstmgulshed from the establishments of individual traders; and fu rth,~ r, that I~s Lordship is unable to state whether coffee is grown In those countnes. Signeo, James Stephen, and addressed to F. Baring, Esq. Now the growth of coffee in the ~eighbourhood of Rio Nunez is a matter of pub-lIC notoriety; several parcels of It had been imported here, and paFcels had been shipped from the coast previously for some years to America and to France; and yet It appears that those facts were utterlv unknown at the Colonial Office to Mr. Stephen. Mr. Stephen writes this ans"wer a few days after he had received ~he letter from the Treasury, ~nJ it does not appear that he had made any mqUlry on the subject for the purpose of informing himself correctly; had he made the least inquiry, he would have found tbat it was matter of notoriety that coffee was grown there. Tbis appears to me one of tbe most extraord inary and unac-countable things I ever met with, and it had the effect of course of depriving the Treasury of all excuse for admitting the coffee. This letter is dated in March 1838. Tbat coffee lies in the London Docks at this moment unsold, and I re-quested my clerks tbe other day to make up an account of the difference between what it would now fetch if sold, and what it would have fetched at the time it was imported, bad no difficulty been thrown in the way; that sum amounts to upwards of 5,0001. loss upon theotransaction.

J 0ioo, Viscount Ebrington.] Do you consider tbat the ignorance of the Colo­nia l Office as to whether any previous parcels of coffee had been imported from Africa made any difference in the decision of the Treasury as to the remission of the duty r-I Ilave no doubt of it ; but the fact of the Colonial Office either being actually ignorant, or wilfully ignorant as to ' the growth of coffee at Rio Nunez is what we have a right to complain of.

10701. Mr. TV. Hamilton.] On what grounds do you claim for the coffee of R io Nunez the right to be admitted upon a lower du ty ?-That it is grown in the neighbourhood of Sierra Leone and purchased witb British goods, and imported as other produce from the coast in excbange for Britisb goods, and that Rio Nunez being in the immediate neigbbourhood of Sierra Leone, we conceive that it might fai rly and properly be considered a dependency of that settlement, and entitled to the privileges of that settlement as a British colony.. ,

10702. Has it ever been declared to be a dependency of S,erra Leone r-No; ou t it is in constant correspondence with that settlement ; there was no doubt a technical difficulty of tbat ki.nd, but that was not . the ground upon whICh the West I ndia people objected to it; they objected to It upon thIS ~round : tho:y say that coffee may be brought from the Br~zl1s to t~e coast of Afl'lca and shIpped from the Rio N unez. To that we replied, that IOdependently of all the other checks imposed by the custom-house, there is one security which affords practically a perfect guarantee in this case, because that coffee does not resemble any other coffee known to be grown in any other part of the lV.orld, ~nd any, b:oke~ o~ other person conversant with coffee in this market can lrnmedlately dlstlOgUlsh It from lOny other coffee; so that the custom-bouse officers could not possibly be imposed upon ; or if any attempt were made to impose upon them, they would have a ready check by referri ng a sample of the coffee to the trade. .

1 0 70 3. Viscount Courtenay.] You quote tIllS. answer from the Colomal Office in proof of your statement of a want of informatIOn at that office, as to the trade of the coast of Africa ?-1 mentIOn It entIrely for tbat purpose. .

10704. Chai1'man.] Do you think any regulations could be framed for carrymg on the trade of the Coast of Africa, by which the slav,,: deal'er sh?uld be prevented gettino goods or money for the purchase of slaves r--:-The thing IS Im possible, witho~t putting an end to trade altogether. No person who b10WS anythmg of the coast of Africa, or its commerce, would thJl1k of s.uch a thing. If you ;v\!re to stop the supply through one ~hannel, it wou ld fil1d ItS way 111 another. 1 rade is like water it will always find Its level.

0.35. ' 4 Z 10705. Do

M. Forsl.,., Esq. M.P.

Colonel EdW<1rd Nicol/ ••

722 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

1°7°5. Do you apprehend that any part of the trade of Africa is carried on upon the principle of credit, or is the payment immediate ?-I am sorry to say that the system of credit has been of late years, in consequence of the great competition in the trade, introduced at the Gambia, and on the Gold Coast, and, in fact, 1 believe, on all parts of the coast. It is a most objectionable and unfortunate system, and has been attended with very bad effects ; it is one of the causes of the heavy losses that have been lately sustained in carrying on the trade.

10706. So that in some cases goods are advanced before payment or returns are secured ?-As much as six months is sometimes granted.

10707. Mr. Aldam.] Is that to British subjects or to natives ?-To both. 10708. Chairman.] D oes that apply indiscriminately to every part of the

coast I-I would say that it is confi ned to the British settl ements . 10709. C redit is not given ou t of the Bri tish settlements to any other points of

the coast ?- Not to any ex ten t worth mentioning. 107 10. Mr. A ldam.J Is any credit given to the natives at Rio N unez?-I am

not prepared to say positi vely, but I should say not. 10il l . Chair11la11.] Everything is done by prompt payment at other parts of the

coast ?-In tbe floating trade, and on those parts of the coast where British settle­ments do nnt ex ist, the trade is carried on by prom pt payment.

1 ° 71 Z. Do yo u think that is universally the case throughout tbe whole of the coast )-As fa r as I know it is generally tbe case, except at the British settlements ; I am not qu ite sure whether they do not give credit in the Bonny, but I think it is only while tbey send up the river.

107 13. You do no t think the natives at present are in a condi tion to be trusted with advances I-Certain ly Dot ; I sbould say tbat it would only lead to tempttl­~on, and induce tbem to be more regardless of their engagements tban they migh t otherwise be if no such temptation were offered.

10714. 1\1r. A/dam.] I s the endeavour to recover those debts likely to lead to violence I-I think so; instances have occurrtd in which acts of violence have arisen out of it .

Veneris, 29' die J ulii, ) 842.

Sir T. D. Acland. Mr. Aldam. Viscount Courtenay. Viscount Ebrington. Captain Fitzroy.

MEMDERS PRESENT.

Mr. Forstar. Mr. W. Hamilton. Sir R. H. Inglis. Viscount Sandon. 1I1r. Stuart Wortley.

VISCOUNT SANDON, IN TUE CUA.IR.

Colonel Edward Nicolls, called in; and made the following Statement :

I DEG to delil'er in the Treaty which I made with the Chief of Bimbia.

[The same was delivered in, and ~ as follows:]

Femando Po, :H Jnnuary 1833. Know all men by these !)resenl., thllt I, BelllY, Soverei!;n P rince of B,mbia, in " 'estern

Africa, do hereby voluntari y make o"er to llis lIIajesty, Ktn~ William tbe Fourtb, of Great Britain and Ireland, the sovereignLy of my country, reserving to myself all my property [It pre.;ent held by me in tbo said priocipality; and I do hereon swear true allegiance to King 'Vil liam the Fourth, as hi. subject, in retun> fot whieh I tllll to receire all the protection and care due to a British subject, and hove leave to hoist tbo British colours.

(signed) Jus

B.lay x mark.

Wilness, Liout. R. B. Cra.oford, Commander of I!. 111. B. Cha rybdis. JoII" BccrO(I, J. P. Jamcs Bcoily, J . P .

t. Leger Dcrrr, Ens. R. 1. C. Corp. 'I: lVallllgc, M .. ,ter's A~.i.tant, ll . M. B. Chtlrybdi •.

1 accept tho nbove unti l the l lensure of Ili. Maj Cllty be lII tldc known. Edward Nico lls, Lieut.-colonel Conunundanl.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF AFRICA.

Captain Thomas Midgley, Matubba, or Tom P?'ince, and Goona, or Jack Davis, called in ; and Examined.

]07 1~ .. Chairman, to Capt?in Midgley.] Will you state who these two men are ?-~hls man (Matubba) IS a natIve of Cape Palmas, who sailed with me three dIfferent voyages from the Kroo coast dowu to the Oil Rivers and to windward. The other one is a native of Battou, also on the Kroo coast'; he has made also many voyages to the Oil Rivers ; aud both of them have recently been to Demerara, In a vessel called the Mary, which was dismasted on her voya(l'e fro:n the coast to that place. She was on her voyage to Liverpool ; but, meetmg WIth stress of wea,ther, she was dismasted, and bore up and went to Demerara, to replace the masts which she had lost.

] 07 1 6. Are they from IGoo coast proper, or the Fish coast?-The Kroo coast proper.

107 17. Are they Fishmen or Kroomen 1- They may be either Kroomen or Fishmen; the distinction is very litUe between them; they are in the habit of going down with 'the oil vessels, to assist the crew in completing their cargo.

107]8. (To Matubba, through tke interp1'etation of Captain Midgley.) You have been lately at Demerara, on a voyage from the coast ?-I have.

1°7 1 9. Did you see any of your own countrymen there?-Yes, I did. 10720. How many 7-1 have seen 40 in Demerara. 1 072 1. 'Were they people you knew before, your own friends?-Yes; I asked

Freemau, one of my countrymen, what time he thought of going back to his country; and Freeman said that he would not go back ag'ain, because there was plenty of money to be got there, if a man would work.

1072 2 . Did Freeman work where he pleased ?-He was not bound to any person, but he could work where he liked, and do what he liked,

] 0723. 'Were they working on the plantations or working in the ships, and on the quays aud wharfs ?-Some of them are working on the shore, but on the Sunday, when they leave the plantation to come to the town, I saw five men that worked in the bush, and those fi ve men said they were employed in squeezing water out of the sugar-cane, and that they liked it very well, and were getting money by it.

10724. Were those five men, who told you tllis, Kroomen ?-They were Settra Kroq men, from the same part of the coast, but not from the same town.

10725. Did they say whether they would go and bring their wives with them, or whether any of their women would come with them auother time ?-Those people that were in the bush had their own wives with them, who came out from Sierra Leone.

10726. Do you think that many of your people would be willing to go to the West Indies and cultivate sugar ?- My countrymen would go. _

10727. How many do you think would g-o ?-If you go and talk to the king, and the king agrees to it, 200 men would be disposed to go,

10728. Would you have to give the king some present to let the people go 1 -If the king has a small dash or present of some rum and tobacco, and some other things, the king- will then consent to let the people go.. .

10729. Would the king m~ke the~ go, or would they only go ~fthey liked to go themselves ?-If the boy dId ~ot like to go he. would tell the kmg that he was not a good man to go ; but the kmg would tell hIm .he was a good man, and that he had better go, for he ~ould be brought back agaIn.

10750. If they did not like to go, would the king make them go?-He would make them like to go. o 1073]. But suppose they did not like to go, w('mld the king do anything to make them go ?-He would not do anything.

1073 2 . How many kings ar.e there,in your cO,untry ?-At Cape p,almas th,:re is a king, and headmen appomted ' over each of the small towns, III authorrty under the king.

10733-4. How far alonO' the coast does the power of the king extend ?-He has only the small town~ abo:t the edge of the b.ush. (Captain Midgley.) .The sy~­tern of g-overnment IS a n)lmber of petty chIefs or headmen, and the rIChest ale the most powerful. . . .

10735. Would the chIef allow the women to go, If they wauted to go WIth their husbands to a distant country?- The king' has nothillg' to say to the women; the king would allow them to go.

0.35 . 4 Z 2 10736. Might

Capt. T . Midgley, il'fatubba,

or Tom Prince, and

Caona, or Jack Dams.

Capt. T. M itlp;l<!/, /flalllMa,

or Tom Prince, . and

Cuono, or J aek D avis.

724 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE T HE

10736. Mi&"ht the cbildren go too ?-If a man likes to carry his children there is no objection to it.

10737. Would you like, from what you saw at Demerara, to go with your wife and family and stay there?- Yes.

10738. How long should you be willing to stay there to make sugar 1_ 1 should be willing to go for two years.

10739. Would you take your wife with you I-I could not take her ; my father and mother would not allow her to go.

10740. Would your countrymen like to take their wives with them when they went?- T he wives would not like to go upon the water; in the first place, they could not possibly be taken; but if the men went and saw the country fi rst and liked it, there would be no objection afterwards to the wives going.

10741. Would you yourself like to go and work in the fields in the way you saw them working in Demerara ?-I have uo objection myself to go to Demerara to cultivate sugar.

10742. Supposing you could persuade your father and mother to go with you, would t he kiug object to your father and mother and wife all going with you after the first time ?-I think the kiug would not let them go.

10743. You think the k ing would not like the women to go ?- No. 10744. What do the women do when the men go to sea 1-When the men

are away the women cut wood and put the rice into the ground, and do any­thing that may be required about the house.

10745. W hat is the reason why the king would not like the women to go?­If 1 go to the place first, and come back, and go to the king and give a good report of it, the king will send some other person to corroborate that report; and i~ it is corroborated, the king will have no objection to let the women go also.

10746. (To Goona, tlmtuglt the interpretation of Captain J[idgley.) Did you see an)' of your friends in Demerara ?-I saw my countrymen in Demera.ra, and they described to me how they planted the ugar-cane, and cut it, and made sugar, and they said that they liked the country very well.

10747. Are your countrymen willing to stay there ?-Some of them want to go, and some of them say they will top two years; the boys that want to go home say that they want to come back again to Demerara to make sugar-cane to get money.

10748. What do they want to go back to the Kroo country for?-To look at father and mother.

10749. Supposing they wished to take their father and mother back with them to Demerara, would they go ?-Some of the young men would want to top, and SOIDe would want to go; some old people would want to top.

10750. Would their fat.h er and mothers wish to go to Demerara, or to top upon the Kroo coa t I-They wOllld want to stop; if they are old people, not fit to work, tbey would not go; but young people would go.

10751. Would you like to go yourself to Demerara ?-I would go to stop in Demerara two years, if I could get back.

10752. Would you go back again to Demerara after that? - After I ha.dstopped two years in Demerara, I would like to go back to my own count~y; but I would have no obj ction to go back to D merara again.

10753. What would you do with all the money you got 1- 1 would buy cloth, and a gun, and othor tbing .

107 54. \~rhat would you do with tbo things?- If I got a gun, 1 would keep the gun to make war with another town.

10755. What would you do with the cloth ?-Wcar it. ,. 10756. But you could 110t wear all the cloth YOII got. 'What would you do

with the rest 1-1n my couutry a man has ulany wive ; and a quantity of cloth soon goes away amongst them.

10757· What good does it do you to make war upon another town ?-When one king makes ~auey moutb, or is iw;olcnt. to ullotber, a war ('nsues, and tlley endeavour to burn their towns down, and drive off all their bullock~ and other things.

10758. Do th~y ever make slave in your country wlll'll they make war. Suppose you catch prisoner ', what do you do with th 111 ?- Wc kill them. If they lire not killed, they go back again. If Ih,'y do nol b.ill lhelll, IhLT h,'P IllClll fOl" work ; 11J,' y do not .ell them.

)0759. Suppo'c

SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF AFRICA.

10759. Suppose you catch 20 men at any place where you go to fight, what do you do wIth t.hose 20 men?-We kill them.

10760. vVhy do you kill them ?-Because they would go back ao-ain and fight again. . ' b ,

J 07.61. Suppose you catoh a number of prisoners, do you keep some for work, and kI ll some?-If we keep some for work, they will run away to their own country.

10762. Do you kill a greater number than you keep for work ?-When we catch men, we give t~em sometimes to a man, and he keeps an eye upon them to prevent then' runmng away.

1 0763. ~upposing you catch a number of men, do you keep more for work than you kIll ?- If we keep 'part of the men, they run away to another country and we kill them. '

10764. Do you make war with your own country people, or with others ?-If our own country people gi'.'e us cause for it, we make war, and go and £ght.

J 0765. Suppose a Spamard came there, !J.lld wanted to buy the men that you h~d caug,ht as prisoners in war , would you sell them ?-No, we would sooner kIll them than sell them as slaves, for if a man-of-war knows of it they make plenty of palaver.

10766. What was the last war that you carried on from yonr town ?-The last war we made was for a small country which is close to Settra Kroo. In the war we killed all the prisoners; we did not take any at all.

10767. Suppose you catch women and children, what do you do with them? -If they take any women in the war, they are killed, for we are not allowed to make them wives, and we cannot make them slaves .

.. 0768. Do they kill the children too 1-Yes, they kill the children; they cut the women and children into two pieces. When we go to war, if we do not kill a man, then father asks them why they have not done so. Then father says if he has not killed a man in the course of the war he is the same as a woman, he is not a man at all.

10769. Do you ever work yourself in the £eld when you are not at sea ?-I make farm when I am ashore, after I come away from the ship, and if other people come to take our farm, or to take our wife, a disturbance comes.

10770. Do you grow rice?-Yes. 10771. What else?-I make rice, cassada, sugar-cane, plantai'ns, and yams,

and palm oil. 10772. Do you make all those things in your own country?-Yes. 10773. Does any sugar-cane gTOW in your country ?-There is plenty of cane

grown in our country, but we do not know how to make sugar with it. 10774. Would you like yourself to go to the West Indies to learn to make

sugar of sugar-caner-Just now I have been 12 months away from my country, and I cannot go; but after I have been to my country, and stopped with my wife a little bit, I would then be willing to go.

10775. Are the sugar-canes in your country as large as those which you saw in Demerara ?-rhey al·e as large as the Demerara sugar-canes, but they do not know how to make sugar with them.

10776. What do they do with them ?-Eat them; they do nothing but eat them.

10777. (To Captain Midgley.) Have you ever seen sugar-canes upon the coast, as larg'e as the West India sugar-canes ?-I have never myself seen the~ so large as those that !p"ow in the vVest Indies; but from what. 1 ~av.e hear~ m the West Indies, I beheve that they have been at very great pams l~ lmprovmg the quality of the cane at Demerara, and therefore 1 can hardly thmk that the canes upon the Coast of Africa can be so large or so good as those in Dem.erara.

1()77S. (To Goona.) Did you 150 into the bush in Demerara ?-I was m the bush but it was Sunday, and I dId not see them at work upon the sugar.

ld779. But you saw the cane growing/-Yes, I saw plenty of canes nad plantains growing in the bush.

10780. Viscount Ebrington, to l1ifatubba.] Are there schools at Cape Palmas? -I have seen some schools.

J 0781. How old are the children that go to school ?-Some are quite children, and others are grown up. ,

J 0782. Do they teach men and women in the schools, as well as children /-Thll young women go. 8 D

0.35. 4 z 3 107 3· a

Capt. T. lIIidgley, lIfatubha,

or Tom Prince1

and eoona,

or Jack Davis.

Capt. T. Midgley, !llatllbba,

or Tom Prince, Bud

Co(ma, or Jack Davis.

09 July 1840.

726 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

10783. Do the missionaries, or the missionaries' wives teach them ?- The missionaries' wives teach in the schools.

10784. Do they teach them English ?-Y es. 10785. How Dlany children are there in the schools ?-The place is full; the

school is nearly as long as this room, and it is nearly full of children. 10786. Do the grown-up people and the children learn together?- The

grown-up people cannot go; it is only the children that go. 10787 . Mr. Aldam, to Coona.] Had the Kroomen that you saw in February

been in Sierra Leone ?- Yes. 10788. Do you know how long they had been in Sierra Leone before they

went to Demerara /- They were three weeks at Sierra Leone before they went to Demerara.

10789. You say that one of those Kroomen had a Ii berated African as a wife; had that same man wive in the Kroo country ?-Besides the woman he has taken to Demerara, he has plenty of wives in his own country.

10790. Will anybody take those wives ?- No; another man cannot take them. 10791. How many wive have any of the men got in your country?- Some

men have 20 wives in my country; some men ha"e more than that. 10792. Sir R. H. Inglis, to Captain Midgley.] After each successful voyage,

is it not their cu tom to buy a wife ?-They generally buy one after each voyage.

10793. MI'. A/dam, to Coona.] Do each. of their wives cultivate land for them? - Each of the women cultivates their own plot of ground; and if a young wife comes and takes up any part of the grouud which has been cultivated by other, a palaver comes up.

10794. Every new wife that you get culti''8tes a fresh piece of ground 1-The)' mnst cultivate a fresh piece of ground.

10795. Sir R. H. I nglis.] Are not the wives, in fact, servants who labour for them in the field, as well as in the house 1-They apportion the work among. the wive; one wife cuts wood, anot.her makes alt, another goes to cultivate rice, another goes to prepare the ground for the cassada roots, and the work is divided according to the number of wive they ha,Te.

10796. What is the ordinary price which a Krooman pays for his wife, upon his return from a voyage?-You mu t gi"e a bullock for a woman. no matter whether the bullock is a bull or a cow.

10797. Surpo e you have not got a bullock yourself, what must you gi'l'e for your bullock .-A gun will buy a bullock, or a quarter of a barrel of powder will buy a bullock.

10798. And a bullock will buy a ,,,ife 1-Y es. 10799. Viscount Ebrillgton, to Captain .ilJidgley.] What is your opinion, from

your own ob ervation, all to the comparatil'e healthin of Feruando Po and the Cameroon, and the fitne s of tho e place for a British ettlemeut 1-1 eou ider Fernando Po to be immeasurably uperior to any other part of Africa, north of the Equator, in poiut of health, and very far uperior to Cameroon .

10800 . The harbonr is good? -Excellent. 1080 1. Chairman.] Do you know the Amboises ?-I know them; 1 have

never been in ide the Amboi es; I have b an in the anchorage clo. e to them. 10802 . Vi count Ebrington.] You con ider Fernundo Po uperiol' 1-£ con­

sider it immea urabl), superior to any other part of Africa north of the Equator. 10803. Is the Cameroons also bealtby compar~d with the l'c·t of Africa ?--The

Camcroons is I,ealthy co'1J pared with ume parts of Africa. I consider Cameroons a great deal more heallhy thRn Benin, and 1 consider it fu r more bealthy tlmn Old CaluiJar; but dysentery and other eli cases prevail in Comeroons. '

J 0804. W hat is your opinioll of the Amboises?-The Amlloi'es I do not COll­

sider so healthy as Fernando Po, llut more so tbon Cameroon . 10805. I there 11 good harooul' at Cameroons I-Yes, thCI'C is excellent an­

chorage tbere. 10806. Chairman.] You have been a good dcal upon the K,'oo coa t ~-I have. 10807. Have you ever formed any opinion as to wilat nUluber of people might

bo l i~ely to engage themselves from that country fur labour in the Wc.;t liidics?­I should think, tuking the const dOli n, some thousands. If 11 lllan W~ll t II'ho had considerable inAuence with them, he would !let mnny more than II strull"cr wOllld : whoev r ell!(tlged in the ."utter to get the Kroomell to emi"rtltc to the I\, est Ind ies must be a mun who has influence with thom or is knoll'n to them .

lo~"g. At

· SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COA$T OF AFRICA. 72 7

10808. At wbat cost 'could you carry Kroomen over from Africa to Demerara and back for ?-I am not prepared to say at what cost, but I could state the amount of wages, and what provisions they would require.

1080g .. Do yo u think it would ~ay to take them for two years' labour ill the West Ind1cs ?-I have not entered mto any calculation, but their wages would be about 8s. a month.

10810. Would. you emplo~ them as s.eamen on the voyage?-They would genera lly ass1st; It would be h1gbly conduc1ve to tbeir health to have a li ttle exer­tion rather than be continually down below. I should separate them into two or three portions, and always have half of them upon deck.

10811 . V iscount Ebrington.] Then they would partly pay their passage over by their services ?-No, I shouid not say til at, because the vessel that would go upon that coast for them must be well manned; it is at best but a wild anchorage for half the year.

10812 . Chairman.] If tbey saw that the ship tbat was to take them was a king's ship, would that give them more confidence I-They would sooner go in a king's ship than any other.

1081 3. If it was a king's ship would they have more confidence tban in a mer­chant ship ?-1 dare say they would ; it would be a sort of guarantee that no slavery, or anything of that sort, could take place, and that would be tne great point to convince tbem of.

1081 4. Mr. Aldam.] Would there he any danger of their risiug upon the crews ?-Not at all; I have come home myself with only two white men on board, and all of us having' fever and ague every third or fourth day; I have had 16 or 18 Kroomen coming home, and I never fo und the sligbtest disposition to resist, but quite tbe contrary, always obedient. .

10815· Chairman.] Do they ever rise beyond the station of common sailors on board a ship ?-No, never on hoard a merchant ship; we pay the headmen something more; possibly wben you have a great many of them you may have two headmen, and we generally give the headmen something more,

108 16. Is either of these two men a headman ?-Neither of these have been headmen. '

10817. Is the post of headman hereditary ?- Not at all, they come on board promiscuously ; we generally bave men that have been on board vessels before.

10818. Do you appoint the headmen ?-They come on board promiscuously, but tbey look for the situation they have had before.

10819. Do you settle whether they shall be headmen ?-The captain always settles that.

1 0820. You put whom you please as headman over those that come on board? -The captain puts whoever he pleases as bead man, and that man is as implicitly obeyed as if they had signed articles; they obey him as completely as any seaman would obey the captain. However worthless he may be, bis situation is held sacred.

10821. Sir T. D. Acland.] Do you find those headmen upon the coast, with their gangs under them?-There are headmen amongst themselves.

10822. Do you in general appoint as headmen the men whom you find as headmen upon the coast, with their gangs under them ?-Generally; for this reason, that the headmen who are acknowledged headmen amongst themselves are men who have been a great number of voyages, and have acquired property amongst them; and a number of boys cling to those headmen who speak the English language, and they are supposed to have a little influence in procuring a , ve~se1.

10823. Chairman.] Do you choose for headman the man t~at has the be~t " book" from his former employers ?-I can only find out who IS the best qual!­lied for it after being three or foul' days on board the ship.

1082 4. Each man on going on board the ship takes a "book," or character wi th him ?-Yes, and he produces it to the captain.

10825. Viscount Eb1·ington.] Do you describe them by their names ?--We have merely their names, such as "Bottle of Beer," "Tom Prince," or "Jack Davis." They get different names in almost all the vessels they go to, unless tbey are old established men, and then the name descends from father to son.

10826. Do you know of any cases of transfers of any of those " books" from the man who earned it to another man ?-I have frequently found that out, and

0.35. 4 z 4 destroyed

Capt. T. Midgley, 111atuhba,

or Tom Prince, and

eoona, or Jack D avis,

Capt. T. Midgley, MaluMa,

or Tom P rinct!, nnd

eaono, or Jack D ovi.s.

M. Forstl:T', E.q. :M. P.

7:18 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

destroyed the book, where I have known the men to be dead . Kroomen, that have sailed with me, and other boys, have presented those books to ole.

J08 2i. Mr. Aldam.] Do the same men ship themselves for several successive voyages, or do they save money and give up ,-Some few men ship themselves for severa] successive voyages. There is a man at Grand Sestros who has been with me four voyages. He is a man who is worth more than most of the seamen you would pick up about the docks.

10828. What does he do with his property ?-His family take care of it for him. He is an opulent man, cO OJ parati vely speaking.

1IIJatthew Forster, E sq. a Member of the Committee, further E xamined.

10829. Clwirman.] YOU wish to make some statements upon the subjects to which you spoke at the last meeting of the Committee ?-At my last examination questions were put to me, and a paper produced bea ring my name, for the purpose of showing that I had coun tenanced and suppor ted the scheme of an African ag ri­cultural aod commercial joint stock company in connexion with tbe A frican Civilization Society. I ex ~ressed my surprise a t this s tatement, and further inquiry now enables me to say that I never attended any meeting called for the purpose of getting up such a company, that I ne\'er signed my name to any paper, or con­sented to become a member of any committee for forming or carrying out any such scheme, and that I never knew that my name had been made use of for the purpose till now. And this may serve to show the public bow these things are sometimes carried on. I hold iu my hand a prospectus of the agricultural and commercial j oint-stock society in question, in wh ich aU its attractions for capi ­talists are set forth at length, and at the foot I fin d the following reference : <I I\ny inquiries or applications relative to the preceding prospectus may be addressed to Mr. Stoke" I S, Parliament-street. " Mr. Stokes is an officer of the Civil ization Society, and I S, Parl iament-street, is the society's office. After thi I think tbe coonexion of the two societies will hardl y be denied. I wish furth er to observe. that on reading over my last evidence I am sorry to fi nd tha t it bears ra ther harder on the memory of the late MI'. M Ilcauluy than I could have \I ished had the line of examination been left to me. In delivering my seuti ­men ts ollthe pas t history of our African settl ements, with which :\1r. Macaul ay's name \\ as so largely mixed up, I pUl'J lOsely a roided singling him out individually. tbat I Ill ight g ive as little pa in as possible to his surviving friends, my object llOt being to a ttack persous, but abuses. T l,erefore if :\11'. :\lacaulay's memory recei\es any inju ry fro m me, his friends must auribute it to the indiscretion of those 1\ tlO have wrung from me what I wus so unwill ing to soy. ~Ir . Macaulay merely took ad, Antage of a bad . ystel11 aud of the pULolic credul ity; probably mos t men in his positioll \\ auld have done tho ame.

10830. Sir R. ll. Ing lis.] '] he questions put to you by me at the illing on the 2ith of July do not as Ulll e that you had a tteuded the meeti na call d fo r the pur­po e of forming all institution fo r agricu ltural purposes; on the contrary , the papt r wLoicb I held in my haud, and from \\ hich I quoted a po age, stated <lnly tba t, 0 0 the 23.] of July 1839, n meeting " as held of certain ind ividuals, at which lIleeting tho motion read to you on the former day was made. I n point of fact, the meeting, of the proceedings of \\ hi ch 1 rend nn extract, \\'as a meding called for the formation . of the Afl ican Civilization ' ociety ; and in the course of the proceedings upon the ubjcct it wus incidentally stated, and formed the subject of 9 resolution, that it

might be of the utmost importance tha t ao in t itution named, \\ holl y distillct from the institution named in the fi r, t rc olution, should be for med. and tha t a pro­v i s iOl~u l committee shou ld be appointed for the cunsideration of tll is ubjec t ; anJ it was not stated that the name of Mr. For ter, und er lood to be yourself, \\ as subscribed to tha t paper, but thot your name was in ~rted in the Ii t of ~elltl elllen who \\ ere to be the provi ional committee fo r consideri ng the fo rlllation of that A frican Agl;cultural Associu lio[l i and question 10695 \\'u' put frolH perccl\ ing thaL thcre had been a misa pprehension on you r part " iLh respect to the intentiou wilh \\ hich the preceding qu sLiun hud been addressed to you, and it , tated tbnt " Ihe que.ti on \\' , IS not "hethcr you .igned yo ur 11I1In " but \\l lethcr you \l ere prcscnt and ullo\, cd your name to be put dO\ln . or d id not i)l;ll ify your di sent frOIll it," and )OUI' reply was that llmt IVUS the first timo thtl t ever YOllr attention ,, !I S

culk·d 10 the subJect. Will yo u permiL me to ask \\'hetlH!I' you \\ ere or wer" IIor ]lre-;cnt 011 tlit' '3d uf Ju ly I H3!l, at the ilOUSl' of tlw Right 11 011. St,'phctl

Lu 1 1U1.~~llll,

SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF AFRICA.

Lushington, at George-street, 'Westminster, of the proceedinas of which meetiu cr the paper read to you on the 27th instant purported to be ~n extract I-If th~ questIOn was not put to me for the purpose of connectina me with the aaricultural and c~mmercial society in question, I cannot see for wl~at purpose it c~uld have been .IDtro~uced at. all. It is quite true that 1 attended a meeting at Dr. Lusillngton s, but 1 duJ not go there for the purpose of forming any such society, nor had I the least Idea on gomg there that any such subject was to be brought forward or proposed: and wh.J!e.1 was present 1 have no recollection of its being proposed at the meetlllg, but If It were, 1 had no power as an individual of pre­venting its being carried.

10831. Did you object to your name being put down ?- If 1 recollect, the names wel'~ put down on ent-ering the ;·oom. Of course 1 could not be responsible for what mIght afterwards take place there, nor on leaving tbe room would it bave been at all proper for me to request my name to be struck off on account of any­thing that had occurred at the meeting.

] 08;,2 . The question is, first, whether you dissented to the resolution that there ~hould be this institution for agricultural purposes, ano , secondly, whether, in re­!erence to the next following resolution, appointing a committee for the purpose, In whIch commIttee your name was included, you did or did not signify your dIssent to havmg such use of your name, not as a person present at that meeting, but as Included in the list of the provisional committee to be appointed to carry into effect an institution which, by the terms of the resolution, was to be " wholly distinct from the institution named in the first resolution," of t.he African Civiliza­tion Society?-I have no recollection of hearing such a thing proposed, and I think it probable it was done after I left the room; but if it was done while 1 was present, the Committee can feel no surprise that 1 should ' decline getting up a debate at the meeting, or offering any opposition to a proposition which seemed to receive the general assent of the meeting, even supposing I had been present when the proposition was made.

] 0833. Would it have been necessary to have got up a debate; would it not have been sufficient to say, "I beg leave not to serve upon that committee?"­I took the first opportunity of entering my protest against it as soon as the pro­spectus was sent to me; that was all 1 had to do with the scheme, and I still think that my name should not have been made use of in the way it was without my consent, which consent 1 never gave.

]0834. Were you ever present at a meeting at the house of Mr. Samuel Gurney on the subject of a company or society, for agricultural ancl commercial purposes, quite distinct from the African Cidization Society?-I attended a meeting, but I did not understand that it was for any excl usive purpose; I understood that it had reference to the aeneral business of the African Civilization Society.

] 0835. Did the summons or the invitation which you received to attend that meeting specify that it was distinct from the African Civilization Society?-I have no recollection what it stated; most certainly I never gave my approbation, either directly or indirectly, to that scheme or any similar scheme.

] 0836. In the paper you have just read, yo u have stated in substance that the indiscreet zeal of friends of tbe late Mr. Macaulay had wrung from you certain statements, which if tbe conduct of the examination had been left to yourself, you would not have made to this Committee. Your attention is requested to your answer No. ]068], and you are asked to state to this Committee IVhether the first mention of the name of Mr.lVIacaulay, in reference to the present subject, was not made by yourself I-Mr. Macaulay'S name is mentioned witb that of others in cOJlnexion witb the African Institution, but WIth no personal reference to Mr. Macaulay individually.

10837. The question put to you was not whether it had reference to Mr. Macaulay individually, as distinguished from Mr. Stephen or M r. Thornton, but whether that was not the first instance in which the name of Mr. Macaulay, in con­nexion with the subject of tbe African Institution, was brought before tbis Com­mittee ?-I think it would bave eeen impossible to have mtroduced the name of the African In,titution without introducing the name of Mr. Macaulay; at the same time I was anxious to do so with the least possible imputation upon him individually.

]083 8. Clwij·man.] Was it fair to covtr Mr. Macaulay, against whom tbe real objeclion in your mind lay, by coupling his name with those of men against whom the imputations did not lie, and agamst whom you withdrew them as soon as they were discussed ?-Although not in the same degree, I by no means adnllt that

0.35. 5 A imputation,

M. For,/cr, Esq. M. p.

M. FOTs/er, Esq. M.P.

s!)July IS.p.

730 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

imputation, to a certain extent, dirl not also lie against them, in havina lent their names so actively and zealously in the promotion of a system which led to such unfortunate results.

10839. Sir R. H. Inglis.] In answer 10689 you state, in reference to the late Mr. Stephen and the late l"lr. Henry Thornton, " I exempt them from any other blame than that of lending themselves to the promotion of an institution by which the public confidence and the interests of Africa were ultimately very much abused. Do) ou or do you not adhere to that testimony ?-1 think a very grave responsibility lies against persons who lend their names to schemes by which the public confidence may be abused. It bas been too much the fashion in this coun­try to do so, and it has led,· in more cases than one, to very great losses and to very gr~at abuses; and I myself am of opinion that persons in hi~h places ought to be a little more cautiou and careful than they have been bow tbey lend tbeir names in promoting schemes in which tbey do not takc a responsible part themselves, while their names stand forth to the public as lures to excite confidence, whicb may be afterwards so seriou Iv abused.

10840. Your last ans;,'er, and some of yom preceding answers on the 2itb instant, have assumed that indivjduals have lent their names without lending their personal superintendence. I hold in my hand a list of tbe Board of Director. of the African Institution present on Tuesday the 28th of February 1 S 15, and being present, the parties there must be supposed to have lent something more than their names to the institution.-His Royal Highness the Duke of Gloncester in the chair; the present Marquis of Lansdowne, the late Lord Grenville, the late Mr. Wilberforce, the late Mr. Babington, the present Lorri Brougham, tbe late Mr. Horner, the late 1\1r. 'Willi am Smilh, l\Iember of Parliament, the present Lord Skelmersdale, tbe pre ent Mr. William Blake, and many otber gentlemen. Do you consider that those gentlemen have mi led the public by lending the use of their names, without taking personal cognizance of the concerns of the institution which you regard as having dt·awn upon the credulity of the public '-I Il)U t thank the Ronow·able Baronet for furnishing me with what I consider as a \'ery strikmg example of the abuse to which I have alluded. I think it would be impossible to furnish a more conclusive onc·

J0841. Chairman.] Did thi~ African in stitution involre individuals in a~y mercantile engagemellts or speculations /-In this pa rticular in tance the Il)l­chief chiefly arose from the encouragement I(iven to the Government in ~arrymg.on expensive plans of improvement at Sierra Leone, which were ncver flllrly carned out.

10842. Sir R. II. II/glis.] You tuted in answer to question 10691, that Mr. Macaulay did not receive any salary as sccretary to the African lnstitution, but be rec(ived that" hich amou nted to a great deal more; Qre you Qware that the African Institution adopted un8nimou ly the following re olutiol1, in reference to Mr. Macaulay, his R oya l lli!!,hncss the Duke of Gloucl' teT in the chair: "That this meetin" is bound once more to expre s the deep ense it entertatns 01 the eminent service of thcil· pro lempore secre tary, Z'lchnry Macaulay, E'q., \\ bo, combining great locRI knowledge and experience" ith the mo. t ardent ze~1 and the most ftssiduou and unwearied industry, has st renuously anti gratUitously deloted to the concerns of thc Ali·ican Ins titution the time and talents which, app lied to the prosecution of Ilis private bu,inc s, might hare been employed to the pecuniary ulh'antu"c of a lat·gc and increasi ng- family, and ha · thereby c tabli'bed hi claim to the l a~tin~ gratitude of 011 who are interested for the civili ation and hnppincss of Africa;·' and that it wa~ then moved and ull>ll1lmously resolved, "That this I1lcclin" can no longcr excuse them elves from pl·e·coting to l\!r. Macaulay a pt'rlllal~ent tJlOu~h n~ost inadequate tes timony of th ir gratitude for those services of \I hieh, in the pr ccdin~ resolution, tll~y have endeavoured to exprcss their sense; lind that Viscount Valentin, the !tight JI.on. . Yansiltnrt, E. W. Bootie, Esq., Willin11l Smith, E q., and Willi,lm " ' Ilbcrforcc, E'q. be f(''lue,tcd to luke "n lhems('\I'es the office of providing >l. pi~cc ot plate ot the \aJuc of 100 ~ulllel1s, \lith" suitub le inscription, to be on·",.,d to lIlr. :'lacaulay,. In the hIli tOlllidcnec thnt he \\ ill confer on the i : ,~titution the additionul (avo<lf 01 accepti llg it. " Arc you Bwnre thnt that piece of pInt ' hein:!; purdl{\",1 lind prc­.ent,'d to I\1r. J\luc8ulay, h' imnwdiulcly "norward. paid a chC<1uC to thc tlca"urer ()f the ill,titution f(lI· the umount of its oS[ as a dOl1l1tion, but thut it "", !lot published, as he sllld he did lIot II ish tlH' f,.;'cllos \I h() intcn,kd to do him tl kind­nC.6 to suppo,.: thllt du·y 11 .. ·1 entailed upon hlltl \1Ill1<'C':'''\I·), ,'-"pense i-Thnt is

a turlher

SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST PF AFRICA. 73 1

a further pr0.of, and a very striking proof, of the extent to which the institution M. Forst.,., Esq. and the public were mIsled upon that subject. It is quite true that Mr. Macaulay M. P.

had no salary, but Mr. IVlacaulay, as I have already said, had that which was a great deal more valuable. From tbe year 1808 u}'l to tJme year 181 g he had 29 ffulyl8f l •

a complete monopoly of the ~rade of Sierra Leone; the whole 0f Vhe mOtley squandered on that place went through Mr. Macaulay's store; and thus it hap pened tha~ Sierra Leone hence aff0Fded eooormous profits to Mr. Macaula!y. TherefOle It w0uld have been absurd In Mr. Macaulay to think of accepting a sa.lary fro III the socIety when he was so well rewarded indire.ctly.

10843. you have stated that Mr. Macaulay's house had a monopoly of the trade ef SrerT3 Leene from 11808 to 18 18; <lire you aware that the house of Messrs. Anders0ns of Philp:'Qt-lane jmpor~ed in the autumn of the year 1808, the quantIty of upwards oho,ooo pounds welght of cotton, the O'rolVth of the island of T~sso, in the river of Sierra .Le?ne, fer which ql1ant,ity of ~obton a premium was adjudged by the Afncan InstItutIOn of a p,ece of plate of the value of 50 guineas; and does your knowledge or recollection of that faot induce you to withdraw the statement that the h(mse of MaGaulay had a monopoly of the t"ade of Sierra Leone ?-Far from i'nmucing me to withdraw those statemeHts, I Fepeat them the 10ere strongly, as being confirmed. I am perfectly aware of the fact that Messrs. Andersons carried on a planting speculatien, whioh turned out a very unFortunate one, at Bance Island, in the neighbourhood of Sierra Leone. They carried it on with very great spirit, entirely at their own expense, and I never heard that they received any assistance from the Government, stLll less from the African Institu­·tion. But that was a business tota11y distinct from Mr. Macaulay's business at Sierra Leone. Mr. Macaulay, I repeat, and I can prove it in the clearest man­ner, had an eJiltire monopoly of the town trade of Sierra Leone, where all tbe m(;mey spent upon the place by the Government was laid out.

10844 . . By an " entire monopoly," d@ you wish 1he Committee to understand that if the locuse of Forster and Smith, or any other bouse in London, had chosen at the period in question to have opened a mercantile undertakQng at Sierra Leone, there would have been any m(!)re difficulty in carrying en their speculations there than in Demerara or in Jamaica?-Certainly not; I do not mean to say anything ef the k ind ; all I mean to say is, that Mr. Macaulay had virtually a monopoly of the trade till Ilh 8, when other houses entered the field.

10845. Chairman.] Do you mean that nobody else would have been allowed to trame there, or that }'lractically Mr. Macaulay did by enterprise OT any other means secnre a leading sbare or vhe whole of that trade, as any other enterprising capita>\ist might perchance of any otlier trade 7-1 have stated that there was nothing to prevent any other person engaging in the Sierra Leone trade; but at that moment attention had not been drawn to it, and the fact is, that Mr. Macau­lay had in effect a monopol:r of t11e trade up to tbrat time.

10846). You mean that you apprehend that practically he was in possession @f the trade, but not tbat he had any chartered advantage given to him in i t ?~ Decidedly not.

l0847- It was merely the case of a merchant who happened to get. possession Qf that trade, as otber merchants might of the trade of any other place ?--Yes, and for which I do not in the least bbme him.

10848. Then you make no imputat ion upon him, er upon tbose connected with the Government of Sierra Leone, founded upon the share of the trade which he possessed ?--I 00 not blame Mr. Macaulay in the least; but I blame the Govern­ment for leaving the affairs of Sierra Leone so entirely in the hands of Mr. Ma­caulay and of the African Institution . • 10849. Sir R. H. Inglis.] You are probably aware that as part of the system of encouragement of tbe productions of Africa, Vhe African I?stitution offere.d a premium of 50 guineas in 1814 t~ the first person who should Import at one tIme into this country the largest quantIty of whIte flce, m a c1eaB and marketable state; are you aware that tbe bouse of Macaulay and Babington presented to the African Institution certain documents, fiJroving that they had imported 94 tons at one time, in a clean and marketable state, and that tbat premium was awarded to them; and are yo u also aware that tbe. house of ]\IIacaulay a.nel Babrngton, .orl receivina the premium, presented a donatIOn of 50 gUlOeas to tbe IOstr tu tIOn, wInch is recorded in the printed list of subscriptions and cionati0l1S of that year /-1 am llerfectly aware of that; but I am alIso perfeotly aware that the house ot ]I,'la?all!a,y and Babington at Sierra Leone dId not grow that. nee, and did not clean It, and

0.35. 5 A 2 tlun

N. 1'O,.SI<r, £Sq. '1.1'.

733 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

that they had no other merit whatever in the transaction than in brin!!ing it from the coast of Africa as merchants. 0

) 0850. The question did not assume that they personally superintended the growth of the rice; but a premium having been offered by a public body in Eng­land to the first English merchant who should import from Africa, the growth of Africa and cleaned in Africa, the largest quantity of white rice, do you or do yuu not knolV that the house of Macaulay & Ballington lVere the persons to obtain the premium, and that, au obtaining the premium, they immediately transferred to the books of the African Inquisition an equal amount in money ?-If the premium <vas offered merely for the imporling of rice in place of growing it, 1 think the premium must have been a very injudicious one, because I cannot see what merit there could be in a merchant merely importing such an article as rice, the common produce of the canst, in the way of merchandise. If premiums were to be given for trans­actions of that kind, I ougbt to have received a great many in tbe course of my life.

) 0851. Sir T. D. Acland.] You have stated that you never attended any meet­ing called for the purpose of getting up such a comllany as the African Agricultural and Commercial Joint Stock Company, in connexion with tbe African Civilization Society; that you never signed your name to any paper, or consented to become a member of any committee for forming or carrying out any uch scheme; that you never knew that your name bad been made use of for the purpose till now, and that tbis might serve to show the pulllic how these things are sometimes carried on. You also stated that you held in your hand a prospectus of tbe agri­cultural and commercial joint stock society in question , in which all its attrac­tions for capitalists were set forth at length, and that at the foot you found the following reference: " Any inquiries or applications relative to the preceding prospectus may be addressed to iIlr. ' lokes, 15, Parliament- treet." You stated that Mr. ' tokes was an officer of the Civilization Society, and 15, Parliament-street was the society's office, and that after this you thought tbe connexion of the two socieLies would hardly be denied. Are you aware that the connexion between the African Civilization ociety, and the society, the pro pectus of which you bave put in , has ever been denied ?-If it be acknowledged, tben I have nothing fur­tber to sayan the subject.

) 085:2. H ar e you any reason to believe that your name was ever used in any way to sanction that prospectus ?-I find that my name has ueen put do\\ n as one of the sub·comlllittee for concocting and ca rrying out that society; I kuow that I nC\' er gave my sanction to my nam e being made u 'e of for that pOl'pO C.

10853. Are you aware thal tbat prospectus has never been i ' sued in any way to the public '-I have already stated that J am not acquainted with the history of the ociety's proceedings, because I have bad nothin(T to do with tuem further thall w give my opiniun upon them, which I did at con 'iderable length, and which I have a lready laid before the Committee wben my opinion was asked as to the propriety of carryillg it on.

10854. Ihl v!! you nny reason to believe that thi s pro pectus \Va ever circulated in any olher way thal1 to obtain the opinion of tho e gentlemen who were most likely 10 b~ best acquainted with the subject, b~fore it should be presented to the public i-Not hll\,ing had Ilnytlling to do wilh it, it is impossillle for roe to say how far it wus circul ated or \I hat wa done in the matter; but when I found it in print and laid before this Committee, nnrl a list of numes forming the committee, re3d, r had !\ ri ght to conclude tha t it was before the public in ,00le shape or other.

) 08.5.1 . Will YOll have the goodness to look at the date of thut paper, and to s tate \I he ther th e paper which you spoke of, at the conclusion of your st:ltelllen( th is morn ing , is the pape r respecting \\ hich you spoke in your former c idcncc?­'rhi. paper WIIS pUI in to my hands sin e 1 entered the room, in conne,ioll with the paper from whi , h th e IIonoul'llble Uaronct re,ld my nollle Ilt (he last lIIeetin!?;.

JOR:jfi. Sir R.. fl. TlIglis.] Whoever put that paper into y.:>ur h,'nels could """0 know n noth ing of the object of the examination on the 2ith of July. The pnper with rc'p('ct to wh ich you were cXGlllin d on the :27th of July, "'liS an extract, in manuscrip t, of the proc('c<iings of the tirst mectini( of the ociety for ,\f.-iean Civi­lization ; fi nd at th ' Hill e meeting it was stated that it might be desir"blc that another in st itution, distinct frolll lh'lt, should lJe founded; 'Ind that, with Il,iew 10 ' nch di slineL insti tution, a committee should be formed; Ilnd Y,)lIr name 0PIWJ I'cd liS 0111 ' o f thllL commill<!c, - From lhill it would I~PPC"[ tlmt the .<)ciety Jill. been more busy thnn 1 was n\\'\II'O of in form in" in,litutiolls of this ktUd.

I WIiS

SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF A.FRICA. 733

"l was not aware tha~ a second attet? pt had been made to get up an Agri- . N. F01·~ter, Esq. cultural and Comm~rclal SocIety. Tbls would prove how little r have had to do "" .;P. wIth these undertakmgs. . Tbe attemJilt to get up a second society of tbe kind to - --­

-w b~ ch thIs pros~ectus !·efer.s floes not alter, in tbe slightest degree, the evidence Z9 July 1842. 'whlCh I have gIven wlth res~ect to bhe first sOeliety; ilind r repeat that it only pro ves, as I have already saId, that the so()]ety has been en"aO'ed in two such a ttempts in place of one. b "

1 oR5? Chairman.] But you are aware that no second society has been formed llpon thIS prospectns ?-It IS tbe first ti me that I ever heard of the second society ; therefore I cannot be aware of any matter relating to it. .

10858. :rhen the fact is, tha,t you were present at the origbnal meeting at which the fo"mat!on of such an a.gncultural and commercial society was contemplated, and at. wInch your name wa:s pnt IIp@n the commIttee, but that you never gave any anthonty for your Flame bemg put there, and were not aware that it was so?­~ecidedIy. I attended th~ meeting in question, at Dr. Lushington's, understand­mg that It was convened Wlbh the general view of promotino- the civilization and improvement of Afi-ica; certainly not with the least notion that it related to .any ~cheme of a joint stock company, or that any attempt would be made at the meet­mg to get LIp any such scheme..

10859. A paper was subsequenbly sent to .you, as a member of that committee, ~hough you were not aware that it was sent to you in that oharacteF, and to that 'paper you replied in language disapproving of the scheme ?- I replied at cOLlsider­able length, entirely disapproving of it.

10860. Sir T. D. Acland.] Do not these circumstances prove that the society acted with consideralile care and caution in not giving cou ntenance to schemes of that kind successively submitted to them, without due ex amination, since it has not given its sanction to either of those two ?- I cannot say that it proves that. I would rather say t hat it proves that the society had failed in d0ing that which they were anxi@us to do, but which they were unable to do, from not having l'eceived public subscriptions; and I believe, undoubtedly, that, the reply that I made in respect to t he first scheme had some influence in putting ari end to it.

10861. Do you think the Committee could have pmsuod a fairer or a wiser course than by submitting to your consideration , and to that of other persons acquainted with Africa, the scheme Vhat was submi tted-to them fo r their approba­tio!, ?-It is not for me to give an opinion on that subject. I do 110t refer to the Royal Afri can Company for any other purpose than to sho w that in giving my opinion upon that scheme I took the opportunity oLgiving the Civilization Society what I thought a very strong hint against a project which I understood they had in view, of an expedition to the Niger. I went out of my way, in fact, to caution them aga,inst that wbich I knew perfectly well, if undertakeL\, would end in failure . And I was the more anxi@us on the subject because I knelV that that failure 'would tend to produce a reaction in the public mind against giving even judicious and wise support to a scheme for promoting the ' welfare of Africa, and on that account I was tbe more desirous, if possible, of preventing the society utldertaking it.

10862. Clwirmcun.] T here i,s nothing in itself objectionable in subm}tting to an experienced AfricaIil mercmant a scbeme which haQ/ been suggested to t.he society for bis opinion upon the expedaency of adopting' i t ?-I should say dCGldedly not, and I have not complained, and I bope the Committee will not suppose that I have complai ned of it. I think it was a very jUGlicious and wise course.

10863. You do not com plaiA of the conduct of tbe society in en tertaining the scheme, so far as to submit it to the consideration of wise and experienced persons .?

• - Certainly not; nor wou ld I have introduced. the sl(\bject of the s~heme to. the attention of the Committee at all, had n@ t questIOns been put to me WIth the VIew, I can only suppose, of convicting me of inconsistency in condemning a scheme which I had in tl,e /irst instance supported.

10864. T he grouncl ()f the complaint which you made against the Colonial Office in answer 101£99; is the inability of Lord Glenelg to stMe WHether coffee was orown'in the countries bordering on bhe Rio Nunez ?-In referring to that case I did ~ot mean to complaiIil of anything except of th e, ignoraDGe, wilful or pr~teDded, at the Colonial Offioe, ilil respect of the fact of ooffee bemg pr<'lduced at RIO Nunez.

10865. Do you conceive tb",t the Colonial Office is in possession of officlaim­formation ill regard to any countnes but these whIch are under Its Gover~ment? _The question put by Mr. Baring, to which I have referred, related ~ntlrely ~o eoffee vein.,. produced there, and Mr. Stephen could have had no dlfficulty. III

0.35, b 5 A 3 answel'lng

M. FOr4l6r, Esq. M. ·P.

lJI. For.'t>', E.q. )t. p.

734 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

answering that question correctly, even supposiug that he had been ignorant of the fact that coffee was produced there, because the slightest inquiry would have enabled him to give a correct answer upon that subject.

10866. You blame him, then, for not being in possession of the common com­mercial knowledge which he might have obtained by inquiry, like any other indi­vidual ?-I do not blame him so much for not being in possession of informa­tion, as for not taking the trouble to inform himself before he returned his answ.er to the Treasury ; but my opinion is, tbat Mr. Stephen was indifferent, to say the least, as to the nature of the information which he gave to tbe Treasury.

10867. Do you think tbe Col onial Office was bound to give information founded only upon common notoriety, when appl ied to officially by another department of the Government ?-I thiuk, when speciall y applied to in a matter of that kind, they should have considered it their duty to make inquiry as to tbe fact before they returned an answer, profcssing themselves, or purporting themselves to be ignorant as to the fact.

10868- 9. T he coffee which you are speaking of was decidedly coffee from t~e River N unez ?-It h ad already been proved to be so to the satisfacti on of the Custom-house, the berry being of a character so peculiar as to be easily distin­guishable; in fact, none olher being like it; and I refer to the printed corre­spondence laid before Parliament ill proof of this.

Mercuri!, 3° die Llugusti, 1842.

Sir T. D. Aclaud. Mr. Aldruu . Viscounl Ebrington. Mr. Forster.

?t( Ei\{DER PRESENT.

IIl r. "-. Hamilton. ir R. H. [oglis.

Mr. Stuart Wortley.

VISCOUNT SANDON, I. THE CHAIR.

Z,[allhew Forslln', Esq., a Member of the Committee, further Examined.

ccorcling to a p revious arrangement of the Committee, the 000 t part of the fo llowing A nswer;; were g iven in by M r. FOI's/cr, in writing, on the 23d of J uly, and they were forth \\~th printed for con,ideration by the several Members of the Committee; bu t, in con equence of the approach of the close of the ession, the Commi ttee were u nable to proceed in the oral examination upon any of the e An wers.

10870. 0 BJECTIO havc !Jeen rai ed ngain t Briti h ubject elling good ' to per on known to be engaged ill the sLave trade. Do you think it possible to draw a line in th:s respect which YOUT agen ts or supercargoes could act upon, and if it were po' iblc, do you tb ink it would an wer any good purpose towards pULting down the ' lave trade ?-1 am aware that such objections have been raised, but it is for the objector, to tell u what good wo uld result from the British trader refusing to sell goods to per ons uspected of \al'e dealing. If ),ou begin such a system, where are you to stop? T he captain of t he E ntTlish trading l'esseL mllst bold an inque t on every customer; besides, your reeu al would not prevent the lave dealer buying the goods through other channels' on the spot. if he had money or African prod uce to pay fol' them; bes l ~cs which, the foreigne r wou ld instantly suppl y them ; and fa iling a ll, the scarcIty of goods would th<!n forlll all addit ional temptation to the palli ' h or Dl'uziiian merchant to ('lIgu"e in the trade. H ad I not been accll<tollled all my life to hear lh' most ,rbsurd things sa id, and the most ridi culous thin O's done in respect to Afj'iclIll afi:lirs, my surprise at such proposition as r have heal'll 011 this subjcct would be I ry great.

10871. Supposing :In)' one Bri t i~h supercargo werc to adopt any plan to pre­vent the ~ I n\'u deniers g tting go.ous, and we re himself to rc fuse to sell g'l" "!> on thal ground, do YOLI think 1ll' could b ring aboll t a gencra l CllllCIIITClll'e Ul

his views by others, without which, of cour~c, his own attempts would ue .un-nmtlmg;

SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF AFRICA. 735

availing?-That man must know very little of t;rading competition, or of human ~ature, who could dream of such a thing; it is painful to heal' the twaddle that IS talk~d on the subject .of the sale of gOQds to slave dealers .on the coast .of AfrIca; people forget that t here is scarcely a .British merchant .of any €mmence who IS nQt prQud and eager tQ deilJl as largely as possiblle with slave im­PQrters m ~uba and Brazll, and slave buyers and se llers, as we ll as slave holders ]Jl the Umted States. NQW where is the moral difference between the slave eXPQrter i.n Af:ic~ and the slave importer in Cubn. or Brazil, .or the exporter .of slaves flOm VlrglDla to theMlsSlsSIPPl1lJ the Umted States? Thakwell.mer.ninO' but ignol:ant persons ou~ of doors. ~mis~em by some, perhaps, who knQw bettel) shQuld adopt fQolIsh notIOns on tim subject IS not surprisIng, but I confess that I was not prepared to find thpm ~(lopted in quarters where one miO'ht have IQQkedJ~r better infQrmation. Allusions have been made to a species"'of trade, ~hlch It IS alleged" promotes the. carrying .on tl~e slave trade;" the propriety of

nQt puttmg the natIOn 1ll a positIOn to lead foreIgners to doubt her sinceri ty in suppresslllg the slave t rade " has been brQught forward; and these observations have been made with an obvious reference to African traders and merchants. Even were it admitted that the present .o perations .of British merchants faci­litate the slave trade, instead .of tending to its SuppressiQn, as is my belief, tQ expect a few individuals, in cQm petition in trade, and nncollnected with each .other, tQ unite tQ carry .out plans .of national policy and of un iversal philan­thropy by the sacrifice .of their business and private fortune, is sufficiently extraordinary. But when we add tQ this, that the .objects proposed would not be attained by such sacrifices; that the only result wonld be the loss to the nation, nQt .only of one branch, but .of the whole .of the African trade, by the advantage foreigners would obtain over us, it is impossible not to be struck by the absurd ity .of sllch expectations. I may state here to the Committee, that as during the late investigatiQn no instance has been pointed ont, SQ d uring the 80 years I have been familiar with the trade of Africa, and not unobservant .of the general commerce of the world, I have met with no in­stance of implication .of a British trader in the illegal slave trade, strictly speaking, by which I mean, personal cQ-Qperation in its labours, or a share in its profits. Considering the temptations to which so many PQor British subjects must have been eXPQsed in their residence amongst those who were notoriously deriving immense pro£ts from the trade, I think that we need not look farther than tbis very gratifying fact for evidence to prove to fQreigners that the con­duct .of individuals has not been unwQrthy of the high moral and political grounds taken bv their cQnntry in opposing the slave trade.

10872. In the case of condemned slave vessels, it has been proposed tbat bQnd should be taken frQm the pnrchasers that they shall not be resold for the purPQses .of the slave trade; have you any opinion to .offer the Committee on t hat prQPosal 1-The shortest and safest remedy WQuld be n?t to sell them in the first instance; the prQPosal III questIOn could not be practIcally carned Qnt; most of the slave vessels are built at Baltimore, where bonds that they shall nQt be employed illega lly are regularly taken, . 8il1d as rell'uladyevaded or e1is.re­garded, as might have been expected; tIm prQJect IS akll1 to that of makmg the seller of <rOQds liable for the use the buyer makes .of them.

10873. D~ yQn cQnsider the occasiQn~1 presence .of a naval force necessary fQr the safety and welfare of the recognIzed settlements, and of the factones .of individual traders on the coast; and have the .officers of the squadron affQrded so much COLlntenance of that kind as might have been looked for 1-The ~ecu-

• liar situation .of our traders .on the coast renders the p~'esence of men -ot:,:,ar from time tQ time indispensable; in fact, however, the rIvers In whIch BrItish fac tories are established become from that moment dese~ted by th.e vessels .of w~r, because deserted by the slave vessels, to pursue wluch IS certaJI1ly theIr principal, but not their only duty; a~ld even ~he regular settlement of the Gambia, in which the display .of a floatJllg force IS necessary from tIme to tllne, tQ rep ress the disPQsition to insul t and. even active annoyance sometunes shQwn by the French residents and French VISitors to Albreda, has had canse to c~m­plain .of the unfrequent appearance .of the vessels of the sq~adron; n~melOus representatiQns on this subject have reached my house flom. the coast, and have been communicated by me personally or by letter tQ parties supPQsed to have it in their power to remedy the inconvenience. On reference to letter- books

5 A 4 I find .0 ·35·

M. Forster, Esq. M. P.

3 August 184~'

M. For,lcr, Esq. M. P.

736 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE TH E

I find that form al applications to the GO\"ernment have been made once at least in the course of every year ; these representations have produced but little effect. which I do \Jot ascribe to any inattention to them on the part of the Govern ­ment offices at home, but to tbe indisposition of the officers of the squadron to so uninteresting a duty, and to the facility with which circumstances enable them to excuse its neglect; the direct suppression of tbe slave trade by tbe actual seizure of slave vessels being the duty most urged upon tbem in their ordera, being t hat to which thfY are especially stimulated by the promise of bounties and prize money, and by the hope of promotion, it is but natural that it should appear to the generality of the officers that they are fulfilling the object of their employment only when in the exciting pursuit of prizes, and that every mission to a river or settlement which would divert them from it should be viewed as a useless and annoying formality, to be evaded if pos ible, which it generally is. However, the C"mmittee will remark, t hat this inattention to his protection is peculiarly hard upon the resident trader in t he Rio Nunez, whose fac tories cost nothing to Government, or any other river, whose very merits in the common cause, by suppressing at least the exporting slave trade, deprive him of the coun tenance of his more powerful and re pected coun trymen in the Queen's service, by removing the moti\'e for their vi its. How slight a pretext serves for t he neglect of com llJ ercial in terests on shore. t he Committee have seen, in an instance of a 11a \'al officer of superior rank and standing, wi th whom it was a suffic ient reason for decl in ing to comply with the request of the chief res iden t officer of lhe Crown on the coast to proceed to a particu lar settl ement, fo r the purpose of suppres ing the slave trade and protecting commercial in terests, that that officer had no fo rmal right to order h im th ither, and 110 personal claim on his civil ity. The fo llowing extract fr0111 a letter received from a re ident in the Rio lunez contains so much information on this subject that I c1o~e with it, and with another letter ad­dressed to the Colonial Office ome time back,-which contai ns some deta ils on t he conduct of the Portuguese officer seven year ago, and Oll the view taken by the Briti h merchants of the inju ry they received from the continuance of the slave trade,- my remarks on this topic :-

E"TRACT from a LEllER from 11k Campbell, dated Kykand)", Rio Kune?, 20 April 16·12.

a b .. consequence of the inl()rrupt.ioll to OUI' trade for some months past, occnsioned by 3J

uoj list and unpro\·oked hostility on the part of the cbief of this place and hIS principal supporters to the resident Briti"h trad~rs, the Dinah h. , been nece.",u·ily "ent to Mr. " ' . For ter for her homeward corgo. I also beg Ie"," to add, that unless we very shortly receive some prot ction from ou r navol squadron, it mil he impos..ible for UA to remain here, and we must "bandon this important trading station to the French, who, the moment we vacate it, WIll "tel' in and coerce the nntives into traoqnillit), and probohly erect an armed cOII/plnir Lo g i e protection to thei r commerce.

" We bn,'e mude repeuled application. to the enior officer of this station, who has promi.ed to send a \'es-scl of wor in here, but the comnlanders of the cruitiers are so cngro sed H1 the more profitable employment of senrchillg for :)lave~ and ~Ia\'(} ' "esscls, tho.t it 1$ no dtfficult matter for t.hem La get up t:1mc plf'n for not haying' lsited the British fuctorie~ in this riYer; tbus, \\ hilc the ll(\ighboul'ing river Pongas has been yisited at least si~ times thi5 dry seMon by the uooL ... of the diflercnt vcs~el~ on LhiA ~t.ullon, in search of slllx rs, all the notice W' ho.v~ reccl\'cd frol1''1 thl' .... quadron hns been R visit from t\ junior officer in oUe of the boats of lI er !Vh'JCHty'S bng Pillllllloon, who was sent up lJ\~ the ommnudcl' ofthut\"c.. .. ~el to ~ay that In~ pro"i~ion6 uelng: Ilt'tlrly c:\ pended he \\ ill'> \1I1nblt' (0 vislt u .

" The Engl,~h "esscls hn,u b~ell very not,,,. 1I1tcly ill (he llcig hllourhood of Bi.""o, and fl'om I'eports which hu\'c rC1Lched us hove committ ~d. ~ome eXCl~~~el:i; the ~Tentel' their vlg ll :1U~(,. ILctint). und. SUCCl'tiS ill tmppre~~ing the slo\~. trade, the g~cntl!r need have we of protection; lht prrjud.lccs of the nntl\'C~ ngainst all Brlt,~h tnldel" ~ bClOg thereby lUcrc~ed, und their ho:-.tdit) r('ndClcd Dlor(' bitter ond persecuting! '

01'\ of LET1 ER add,..,,.cd lJ, }">r>lor $; Sm"h to the olo"iol Olliee. n'pre,entll1~ the nec('\~Kity or O<'rn~lonal \'i~iL~ rrom tlw C"Ui1'\l", to certain Placl'~ ou. the Afri an Coast bctwl'cn' tlw (iull\bl(l. and Siona Lt'one.

~ly Lonl. Landolt, 30 1\10:-' 103';. "'1. 'WI! h'n\(' to dnl\\ your Lordsl,,»':'> ",tll'1\ti011 to thl' l'\tt'n~i\(' Klan.' trn(h~ nllw l':urlt"<.i on hy tIll' POrln!!;lll'!"(' OmC('r~ und suhlcct~ at tIlt' 1 i\ ~'r~ IIl~t \\, l't'n (hU\\i>lt\ and ~icrn\ t.t'ont" wh, ... :h nit' :"t"Idom \ i~lt('d b, our rui~t'I'~ for ~\I\)prn .. ~in~ tlmt trndc.' . ,,~c haH' tilt' IW(10Ilr (0 l'I1Clotic nn cxlrnc( f!'On, 't.he l ... ·tI 'r of an Inh,' hgc1lt ('orN.'~po1\dt.'l\t ut the (illml)Jtl. (m ,tl\l:\

:O;UhJL'ct,

SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF AFRICA. 737

J subject, whose sta tement we have reason to know from other sources is perfectly correct .

. That part of the "Vestern Coast of Africa has long been neglected by our cruisers, because ~t IS not supposed to afford so good a fi eld for plizes as the Bight of Benin. Hence the IIIcrease of the trade there 01 late years, whIch threatens to destroy the legi timate com­merce of our o\vn .settlements a~ the Gambia, because the natives carry their produce where they can sell theIr slaves, whlOh produce those slaves have been employed to convey to market, accordIng to the system pursued before the slave trade was abohshed.

One vessel, and a steam-vessel would be the cheapest and most efficient, would suffice to put an e!'ld completely to this abu:o:;e. It appears to persons conversant with the facts most ~xlraordlnary that the .Portuguese .s l~ould be su~ered ~o carryon the trade in this manner, 1tI defiance of the treatIes and subsIdIes by and tor whIch they agreed to abanden it.

We have, &c.

(signed) Forster &" Smith.

EXTRACT, dated Batlll/rst, 20 March 1835, received from Cltarles Heddle, Esquire.

" As for the trade in general it is indeed .hocking- bad i what does Mr. W. Forster say? I slrould thlllk that he glVes you a gloomy pIcture of It; rn fact, so long as the Portuguese .cal'ry. on the sla,:e trade In our Immedl~te nelghbouphoocl, so long will our trade be liable to darly obstructIOns and outrages. It IS really often sadl), annoyil)o" to see thousands of hides arnvlDg from tbe Port?guese ports, at times when we. cannot pick up as many dozens here. The grea.test benefit you could confer on the Gaml)!a, would be to call the attention of Government to tbe frightful extent to wbich tire Portuguese· governors and officers carry on the slave trade on this part of the coast. In doing so I should think you would meet with the zealous support of the abolitionists at home, whose attempts to civIlise the Africans of this part of the coast will be fruitless, so long as slave dealing is carried on to its present extent. The native, as a matter of course, prefers disposing of his produce to him who wi ll purchase his slave at the same time."

10874. Have you any observations to make Oil t he measures adopted by Ollr squadron on the coast of Africa for the forcible suppression of" the slave trade? -Till within the last two or three years, the conduct of the officers of the sq uadron generally has been such as ·to call for no other no tice than that due to the careful and zealous performance of their duty. But it is to be re@;retted, that when called to act upon t he provisions of the Equipment Act, as it is com­monly called, they appear to have forgotten that the very extraordinary position in which England by that measure placed herself, called for more than common prudence and forbearance on the part of those entrusted will) its execlltion; .and that they assumed a latitude in their proceedings, which, if allowed to continue, will not only embroil us with foreign nations, but degrade us in the eyes even of the natives. We cannot carry fire and sword along the shores of" Africa without teaching her people lessons of rapine and inhumanity, which they have even already shown they will not be slow to apply. You cannot .at present teach them to consider the slave trade as a crime; you cannot, there­fore, expect them to appreciate }~our motives for burning and despoiling the houses an d property of the Spamsh and Portuguese slave dealers; st Ill less can you expect them to acquiesce in or lend assistance to the ruin of the men w hose presence in their country tbey have so long encouraged, from any other motive than that of a share m their plunder, more or less avowed. Leavmg the question of the legality of these pr()c~edings to the consideration of Govern­ment, I humbly record my protest agamst them, as tendIng to render the African more barbarous and regardless of the nghts of property than he at present is, (on. the .whole, his respect to the .rights of the. t~·ader who places his goods wllhlll IllS rea~h ~ s worthy of praise,). and as II1Junous II1 many ~ways to the character of tlus c~llntrJ:' and the mterests of Afnca. [must notice with reO"ret another pomt, m which lhe conduct of the crUIsers has been at least harsh . b I allude to lhe practice of landing the crews of captured slave vessels on the coast without money, food, or means of reaching assistance. Captain Clegg, who, the Committee will remember, noticed t.he subject in i)is evidence has since wntten to me still more strongly on the subject. In a letter, dated Liverpool, the] nth of June 1842, "I think if those m wbose power it is to order the disposal of lh~ crews of slavers could only see the :111sel'Y a poor human being endures fro III Lile day he IS landed 111 Bonny t111 hIS dea th takes place, which is soon afterwarus, tbey would not allow them Lo be lan~ed III

such a fatal place." Ami I here call altenHon to Lhe followlDg extract tr011l a 0.35. 5 B letter

111. Forster, E~q. l\I . P.

3 August 1842.

]tt. FOI',~/cr, Esq. M. P.

3 August 124'1.

i3S MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

letter from Mr. Daw~on, a merchant in Liverpool, who has himself traded in the Bonny river, and there observed the effect on the minds of the natives which he describes :-

From a Letter from Mr. R. Dawson, dated Liverpool, 14 May last:

"The natives lough at our philanthropy when they allude to the system of our cruisers of landing the poor Spaniards on the beach without food or clutbiDg to a certain but lingering dea th."

There can be no doubt that the rude and harsh proceedings of some of the officers of our squadron is the main canse of all our difficulties with France and America on the subject of the right of search. There may be some colouring in the French account of tho~e proceedings, but I fear they are not altogether without foundation. Mr. Hug hes, who has seen much of the conduct of both the English and French officers, reluctantly gives the palm to the latter in poiDt of professional demeanor in th e discharge of their duty. I have no doubt that the same cause bas some share in keeping alive in Spain and Portugal a feeling adverse to the due fulfilment of our slave treaties with those countries. Allied to this question is the condu ct of the authorities at Sierra Leone in respect to the condemnation of fo reig n vessels seized on a charge of slave dealing; the nature of the proceedings in the case of t he Hamburgh vessel, the Echo, Sohst, master, laid before the Committee by Mr. Hartung, and the cruel treatment of her captain and crew, cannot be read by an ELlglishman without feelings of mixed pain and indignation that such transactions should be carried on at a British colony; they would appea r incredible were they not partly confirmed before th e Committee by a witness personally connected with them. The case of the H ennclinda is another alinos[ equally flagrant and discreditable to the Engli h name, and after reading thelll it is impossible to wonder that foreigners shou ld suspect our motil'es, and doubt both our humanity and integrity. :Such proceed ings cannot be too soon put a stop to. The" exploit," as it ha~ been called in this Committee, of Captain Denman at the Gallin<ls, has been so fre­gnentl), alluded t(l, and !au(led here and rlsewhere, without being, as I conceive, properly uJ](\erstood, ullci the danger of it being imitated in future is conse­quently so great, that 1 feci it my duty to explain it a little more at length to the Committec, in order that whatel'er its merits may be, those merits may be more clearly appreciated. For this purpose I shall take Captain Denman's own account of the matter, together with that of his friend Governor Doherty. In the lettE'r from Governor Doherty, in which he forwa rds to England Captain Denman'- Corre pondence. he states that" Capta in Denman determined to avail himself of the 0ppol·tunity" (afforded by Governor Doherty' - requisition for the two Driti.h subject detained by a native chief, not by a Spanish sJ:r.,'e dealer, at Galiinas,) "to demand reparation for those injuries from the chief and his people;" those injuries being insolenCe and annoyance to Captain Denman and his boats during the blockade. After narrating briefly Captain Denman's proceedings, Governor Doherty enlarges on the advantage of' 'uppre ing til e slave trade at Gullinas.

The British subjects on whose behalf' Capt:lin Denman wus sent down were II

woman and her child. They were tletaincd by u nati,'e, Prince '\lal1n~, a son of lhe King Sciacca. After some falsehood and evasion on the purt of Prince J\-l;Ulnu, thc woman and IWI child were given up to Capttlin Denman, and an apology was ll1ade, and a promise given, never to hold a- a la\'e any other British .ubjcct. The 0 tcnsiblCl object of his mission being tbus obtained, Captain Denman, in his own words, at page g of the Correspondcnce. "then delllande(~ rcdl'llss," ou the Cullo\\' illg grounds: those gro Llnds being the allnoyance he had slI stained while blockading the place, and the fact that two free people belonging to Sicrt'a Leone had been rescued from the ::)pani-h -l:we dealers on the da) he. Captain Denman, entered the river; these people b"inl; taken with go . Iaves, wholll the SplIlliard$ were remo\'inl( III CIIIlOCS ti'om tbe t:lctorie­Now it does not clearly appeo r thot these two Sierra Leone people were not allies of the slave dealers. When captured, to avoid punishment, they might declare themsl'lvcs ~lllVCS. On these second demands of Captain Denll131l negotiations proceede,!. That all partie considered them liS di ,tllll't II'OIll

the settled (jllestion of lhe surrendel' of lJle woman and her ch.i1 ,I, :.Ippc:lrs JlOm

SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF AFRICA. 739

from the fact mentioned at page 9, that the demand for a second apology on that score was remitted! on the ground that one had already been made. T he natives refused to abolish the slave trade. Kmg Sciacca laid claim to the goods m the slave factory. It appears from page 9, t hat Captain Denman de­manded a certam number of people; it is not stateu what that number was or o~ what ground he fixed it. But within five days after the date of the tre~ty, Captam Dem~an had reCeived 880 and upwards, being within 30 of the num­ber he had ongmally d~manded; 880 and 30 are 910. When Captain Denman entered the nver, he seized 90; 90 and 910 make the round number of 1.000. Was that the number the gallant office,. thouo-ht the slave facto ries should alford him? The na~ives coul~ not raise the 30 re":naining due, and Captain Denman left the Saracen remal!1 ll1g to receive them; they were to be deli vered within a week. Why should any rlelay occur in securing that number ? Where coul d the SpanJsh slave dealers take them to? Were they not victims collected from the country, Just as they would have been collected to pay a slave dealer? Why shollid Captain Denman have been anxious to secure these slaves at all ? The barracoons were down; the place was blockaded; the .spanish slave dealers had no means of retain ing them; the slaves would have remain ed in the countrv as domestic slaves to natives. Was it to improve their condition that they wer"e taken to Siena Leone ?

In his examination, Captain Denman states his grounds for wishing to destroy the Galiinas factories (6743-6745); he states that he had determined to destroy them (6744-6759) : that the detention of the woman was" a better ground t han t hat be had intended to go llpon," (6748- 6759. 6742-6744), and therefore c hosen by him . And in his letter, page 8 of the Correspondence, &c. he clearly states (as before noticed) that the question of the detention of the woman was settled when he proceeded to induce the chiefs to let him burn, or to burn for him, the factories.

Now I appeal to the Committee whether this analysis does not clearly show that II hatever may have been the result of t.he "exploit" in other respects, oll e of the r p,sults was, that Captain Denman obtained 1,000 slaves by tbreats and negotiation from the chiefs; and I think it is equally clear that the chiefs had their reward for them in the goods belonging- to the Spaniards, given to them by Captain Denman. But my great, and in fact only objection to the" ex­ploit" is, the dangerous and pernicious example set by it to the natives and the native chiefs. There is no man living more opposed to the slave trade tban I am, and certainly not one living more deeply interested in its speedy extinction ; but such p roceedings have no permanent effect in putting it down, and only teach the natives lessons of bad faith and violence. In respect to the other proceedings on shore, I would especially refer to the evidence of David Gwiliam, the sto ker of the Pluto steamer, for an example of irregularity on t he part of that vessel at Hen Island, near Bulama, as dese~ving the severe~t disapprobation. I consider I am acting the part of a true fnend of the navy III

desiring to put a stop to sllch proceedings. . . 10875. You state that you wish to offer some explanatIOn of your motives for

ce rtain questions respecting the conduct of the officers employed 10 the squadron upon the coast of Africa?-:-I have ~elt that the questIOns whICh, as the only member of the Committee m possessIOn of mformatlOl1 du·ectly from the coast, I have been compelled to put to the naval officers whom we have had the advan­tage of examininO", must have occasionaily appeared to those gentlemen them­selves, ancl perlJap~ to some members of the Committee, as indicating a dispo~it.ion to depreciate the deserts of the squaclron generally. I beg, therefore, explICitly

• to say, that as few men have had mor~ opportunities of observing, ,so few are more sensible of the value of thell· serVl ces on the coast of Afnca: tnat, what­ever may have been my doubts of tbe policy, I have hac! none o~ the motives of their conduct in the cases wblch have been most under dISCUSSlOll. It hap­pens, moreover, that except in the instance of the interference with the" Robert Hecldle" wh ich was the act of an officer for whom I have personally a hIgh respect: the proceedings of the sqllad ~·on hav~ in .no case a!fectecl the commer­cial clealinO"s of Forster & Smit.h, or of any of their connexlOns Oil the coast; my own fi~m, and, as far as I know, non e of its African friends, 1 havmg ever sold a piece of goods at the G~II I1l ~s, th e Pongas, HeI! Islancl, New Cest los, or any of the other places at whICh {"ctones have been uestroyed by the vessels

5 B 0 of . 0·35· -

lfI. Forster, Esq. y, p.

3 August 1842.

M. Forster, Esq. )1 . p~

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

of t he sq uadron. Dllt it is di fficu lt to elici t in fo rm ation from which concl usions may be draw n al l verse to a lin e of cond uct to a system, without appearing to imp ute blame on the parties who have acted (lnder thal system; and 1 may not always have succeeded in my wish to avoid offence.

10876. W hat are you r views respecting the em igration of free black labourers fro m t he coast to the West Ind ies ?-The subj ect not having engag-ed my atten­tion until very recen tly , 1 will merely say, tha t it appears to be lamen ted that th e state of society in Africa prevents us, in a g rea t measure, from t ransferring labour from a land where it is so unproductive, to anothe r where it is needed and advantageous ; yet I am unable to see wh y we should fee l any hesitation in afford ing every facility to such Afri cans as will volun tarily , ~ nd with a suffi ­cien t knowledge of the consequences of th e act, enlbark from any of ou r own colon ies for the II 'est Ind ies ; fo r, tak ing proper precaution (or their fa ir treat­ment on the passage and afte r arri va l, and watching by our resident authorities the operation of the system in Afri ca , I will adJ, tha t I can see no good reason why the negroes taken on board lavers shoulJ not be conveyed to the West Indi es, in pl ace of being landed a t Sierra L eone, or on any other part of the Afri can coast , No do ubt r an exist that in the West Indies they would pos­sess faci lities for their improvement in religious knowledge, in morality, in educa t ion, in the acquisit ion of skill in trades and arts; that the ir personal comforts would be great : we have seen, t hat in Sierra Leone, they are igno­rant , deb?,sed, in dolent, and in misery, \I 'by then should we hesitate to p lace the rescued slaves in the situation most advan tageous to themsel es, be­cause thn t sit uation is likewise the one most advantageous to ourselves and our colonies? A re we to refrain from doing that which our reason sholl" us will be best for the negro, and be t fo r ourselves, Ie t France, Spai n or l3 razil , ho uld accuse us of con ulliug ou r ow n interests in the meas ll re ~ Have we not pro"ed our zea l fol' the \\ elfare of the aep;ro by the gigantic ac ritices we ha,'e made fo r so many yea r , in advanced prices fo r tropical produce, in t hl:! con ' i­deration of which Olll' pa),n lent of20 millions to the West l udian proprie tors, u nparalle led as that is, sin,s into in i~niticance; by the co t in life and money of our squadron on the coast of Africa; by the ince'sant a t­tention of our diplomatists to proclll'ing- from foreigners gua rantee against the abuse of their flag in the slave trade! \ \'e shall indecd be open to the reproach of ha, ing consulted om interest rather than the happiness of the un­happy people tl1l'o\\ n in 0111' PO\I cr, if; rathe r than submit to some unfounde,1 insilluations and pointles,; sarcasm from tile pre S of Paris, Madrid , 0 1' Rio J t! Janeiro, we hesil ate to take that course which we feel to be the IIl O t humane, I t i certainly not the interest of the African merchant to encourage cmigration from that country to the We;.t I nd ie', since its tendency wonl,1 be to enhance the price of labour on th e coast, 13Ul no consideration of pri",}te interest shall bias my judgment iu a questiou ';0 important, not only to the mother cou ntr," , but al 0 to Afrit'a and tile \I cst Indie" If' the l'ltkr can be n"l<le a school of industry for th,' na tive of Africa, the tid~ of cmigral\ls may one day 'd back to their noti,"e "hore, and repay tl.e temporary lo,s of labour to the coast by real izing the anguine \\ i.hl" of tho,;e who desire to sec ind u.tl'Y implanted there, Care must be tal,en, howel'c r, not to make Olll' sett lements, or any other places from \\hich wc dl':lw the cmigrunts, the common refuge fo r criminal ' or runaway sla,·s frolll the interior 101' lhe pu rpose of migrAtion, othe rwi c the nati ' e chief:" mip;ht put those plal'l's ullder the ban of a ll communica tion, and thereby pre'ent that free intercolll's(' with British 'cttkmenls on " hich so much depend,

I oR77' You state that you \\ ish to offer some r{' l\1 arks on t he mea ures ln te ly , ucloptt·d by some 1'1 iend ' of the ci , ilizatioll 0(' Afric'L to "ltract pu bli c atte ntioll to t"'rtain supposed gric";lnecs ?-In this coull tr)' 0 vcry Ill ll ch depellds upon the degree of intertst the public ut larg,' take ill an) nlllt tl' I' il1\"o l ing the wei­r:" <:) und interest of a large portion of the human nice, lha t 1 yen lure to call the attention "rthe COllll11iltc'e to t he propriety of depn .. cating the injud Icious tone .11HI violent mea,,"'cs latterly adopted by mcn wh o have {,,'nn r1 y :(c ted wi th, or \\ he) :Ire supposcd to J't'prc'l'llt the Illo. t I'cspee tubl e of the band of philallthro­pists to \I hom the West Indian labonrcr and the , \ lric'll1 negro owe ~o much , It is t ruc that the cauf.' of truth CH 1l1l 0t be p rl\1 unclltly injured by the 1I1dlOCI"'-, tioll o{' its ' uppOrtl' rs, bu t it" '"('('l'SS Ill,})' be Illul' h r<.'t ard ed , :l lld the ,}bus,' of

the

SELECT COMMITTEE ON W EST COAST OF AFRICA . 741

the publi? sympatby and confidence which has latterly occurred, excites in my IUltH.I se rious ala rm as to t he poss ible reaction. P ublic meetings are held, at " lll ch speeches are delI ve red contall1JnO" the most serio LIS charo'es aO'ainst whole bodies of" men, on g rounds eith er fi ctiti~lI s or utterly in sufficie~"'t to ~l pport suelt accusatIOns; large bodIes of shareholde rs in fo re io'n minin o' adven~u res are accu,ed of v i o l atio ~ of the laws of their country, and it would ~pl?ear from the best le~al authorities, fal se ly acc Ll sed. If a joint-stock bank establ ishe.s a branch 111 a slave-rlealing country, it is immed iately assumed that it is for the purpose of em~ l oyi ng its cap ital in loans to enable parties to embark in slave­trad lllg operatIOns; the nllmerous and infl uential bodies of merchants in terested ill the Brazi lian, C uban, Spanish, and Afi'i can trades, are denounced as aidin O" and abetting in the slave tl "de ; the cha racter of the residents on the coa~t ;r Africa is most especially attacked, an d as far. as resentme nt for unpro ­voked amI unme ri ted aggression wi ll affect the judgment of those re,idents, a risk is incu rred of cOlll'e rt ing into indifferent spectators those who were a nl1 should be the most usefu l fl iends and allies. Th is Comm ittee, and another baving one object in common with it, were no sooner appointed th an a manifesto appeared, dated f rom the office of the " 13ritish and Foreign Anti ­slavery Society," cau tioning the friends of Africa against the proceedings of bodies of honourable members, "who, with fevy exceptions, had either pre­jlluged the important question they were called upon to investigate, or had a direc t in terest in affi rmi ng the views of the West India party, by whose statements the nob le Lord (Lord Stanley) appeared to have been greatly influ­enced," When the Committee consider tbat many men are incapable at all times of confining their indignation at intemperate language an(1 unfounded calumny to i ts proper objects, but that a good canse not · seldom suffers for the sins of its supporters. I trust they will not th ink these remarks irrelevant. Before I conclude, I beg to offer a few remarks on the abuses and mismanage­ment so long remarka ble in the administration of Sierra Leone, and the coast i ll general. As might have been expected, the colonies on the coast of Africa, unfi-equented by travellers, scanty in European population, thei r few residents uninfluential in rank anu wealth, and unconnected with any large and powerfu l mercantile body in this conntry, have had to endure more than the usual share of that neglect, mismanagement, and jobbing, which it is so we ll known ou r colonial empire has, unti l very recent times, suffered from authorities at home and abroad, It is useless to reclll' to the past misgovernment of" the coast; I will merely Notice that the colony of Sierra Leone in particular has been, for 4,0 years, the constan t prey of part.y in fluence, and practicaJlly subject to all the evils of irresponsible government. '

The same period which introduced these violent proceedings on the part of the civil O'overnors, ushered in the application of new and forced constructions of the Act prohibiting the slave trade, and of our treaties respecting the slave trade with forcio'll nations, and saw the officers of the squadron empowered to under­take ente~prises of a very questionable nature, to say the least of them, against the factories of slave t raders on shore. T he conduct of our officers, heretufore so distinO'nished for their temperance and forbearance towards el'un an enemy at all m~ments but those of actual conflict, became so changed as to excite the astonishment ancl indignation of foreigners, who, unacquainted with the nnnner in which officers were urged on by the ord()rs extorted from the publtc offices at home and by the unauthorised and irresponsi ble adVIce of those who backed th~ir recommendations by the threat of public denunciation and of private rep ,'esenta tion to their superiors if those recommendations did not :receive anxiolls attentIOn, beo'an to conclude that some great change must have taken place in the character ~ll1d station of the officers serv ing in the English navy, or t bat "Ihe gent lemen officers were not ordered to the coast, and those who did ero were brave active me n no doubt, but rude and too eager for prizes, and the ~ai n consequent on them,"-(See the French Correspon~ence of the Exam i ne~' newspaper, published on Saturday, Hi July Jast,) Sucb ImputatIOns, and many far more severe and ,unfounded, were the results of the conduct forced on the squadron by the mistaken zealot untlllnkll1g, but well-mealllng

pa rties at home. 10878. You have read Dr. i\ladden's RepOl ts; have you any remarks ~o

offer to the Committee upon tl'tem) - There are two points in VI . Madden s ;; B 3 HepoTt

0·3')·

M. Forster', Esq. M . P;

3 August 1842,

M. Forster, Esq. M.P.

742 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

R eport upon which the Committee will probably expect some information from me. One of t hese is the detelllion, at Dr. Madden's rccommendation , of t he Robert Heddl e and Sca Witch, the property of my firm . The questions which I have put, and t he, I fea r too voluminous, correspondence printed for the use of the Committee, contain nea rl y all t he info rmation I have to olre l·. 1 will men­tion, however, t hat 9,000 feet of lumber, which were among the goods sold at W'hydah, althoug h requiring no apo logy or excuse fro m me, if it had been shipped for sale there, were rea lly ordered by, and desti ned for, Mr. Freeman, a missionary at Cape Coast. Mr. Freeman ordered the plank in question, wben in E ng land in 1840, and Forster & Smith des ired tbeir agents in New York to sh ip the quantity and description required in a letter dated 80 July of that yea r. T he Sca Witch proceeded first to Gambia from New York, and M r. , .y . Forster, of' St. Mary's, was informed in a letter from my fi rm, dated 2Qd Septem ber, that the plank was" expressly ordered for t he Gold Coast," it being unfortunately omitted to mention that ci rcumstance in Mr. Wm. Forster' s consignment of the vessel's cargo from Gambia, and Forster & Smith 's own letter to Captain Grove, dated 8 December 184.0, by the General Brock, con­taining the following passage : "We are witbout any accoun t of the Sea Witch of later date than her sailing from New York.

"The 78 pieces of 1 l inch plank, containing 1,524 feet. u And 37 ditto 1 ditto - 505 do.

have been shipped at the express desire of Mr. Freeman, Wesleyan mlS IOnary at Cape Coast, which gentleman is on the eve of his return to the coast in the Osborne." Arriving later than the Sea ' ''itch herself, he sold tbe plank at ' \'I"'dah, a stated io the following ext ract from a letter from him, dated Accra, 21 March 18 I·] : "I had also 6 In feet ofiumber bespoke, but she only brought me '2~; fect of superior, which I sold, not knowing it was intended for Jll r. Free­man, till your letter per Urod; this i ex plai ned." Respecting Dr. Madden's de­claration that ~lr. :llaclean consumed an undue amount of the time he should devote to Ihe public se rvice in his correspondcnce with me, I will remal·k that the few opportunities of transmitting letters from Cape Coa t which occur, ma~e this charge absurtl. The lamente(l death of JI l l'S. Maclean in the prc­ceding year, m:ldc 1I:i89 one in II hich JILl'. I Iaclean was of cour e most anx ious to avai l himself 01' cI'cr)' opportunity of writing home; which. on examination, I find he did by 1-1 or 15 dil1~rent vessels; and although the correspondence was one which rCllllcred necessary long explanatory letters, 1 beliel'c that. in a week or 10 days could have been performed the composition of the IVhole. As respects the alleged commercial char'tcter of the lettel -, I can only say that it is seldom indeed my bouse finds itself unprovided with such accurate detail­as it could desire of the statc of trade and markets on tbe Gold Coast from the Iii or ]5 merchants res ident there with whom it is in communication, and that 1Ilr. ?llaclcan 's hare of the information which it does receive, is thut on ly which mu t almost necessarily flow from the pen of an intelligent observer rc-ident in a country where commerce engages the p rincipal attention of all , and where matter to swell the voluminous corre pondencc of Dr. Madden's imagination is scarce, Mr. lIlaciean never on any occasion receil'eel U com­mission or remunerntion from Ill)' own or from any othel' house (to my know­ledge, and I think it would h,wc reached it) . 1 do know that he has extended his assistance to panics whom he had Ilel'er known but by name, sometimcs not by name evcn until the occurrcnce of the exigency which call ed for his nssi t ­ance. The interference of a Governor ill . liCit malters, wh ich may startle those to whom that word sug~ests the ru ler of an Indian empire, a Canad iull prolince, Jamaica, or e"en ilermuda, wi ll appear less strunge when it. is remcmbered that Mr, Maclean IS the head of a society of :30 or -10 while men cattercd on a coast morc than 100 miles long, 011 whicll no legal pmc­tilioner, properly so called, resides, and where other ~sist'lIlce in tht' ad lllin is­tration of property than that of rivals in tmde cannot be obtai ned in c..~"es of sit'knc"~ or death. On this subject I addressed the following letter to his uncle, General Sil' John Maclean, whose rep ly ets this malter at I'(,S(. On t he t3S t l~ und feeling \l'hidl could ol'iginatc such H ch:lI'gc, 0 )) [lrctcndC(j informat ion picked up by Dr. 1\1:1l1d<'n , while aguest un der _11'. 1Ibc t'nn'~ own roof, I n<'t'(1 011<',1' no remadl,

SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF AFRICA. 743

" My dear Sir John, " London, 19 J uly lB42. a THERE IS a Committee of the H Quse of Commons now sittin2' on the Affairs of the West

Coast of Africa .. The government of the Gold Ooast forms ,," part of that inquiry. In tl~e ~ours~ of t~1e lllvestlgatlOn, a chal:ge has been brought against your nephew of spending hIs tIme Il1 pn\'a~e correspondence with m:c, to the neglect of his public duty. You wiN probably be surpnsed that an officer's pnvate correspondence with a friend in Encdand should be made the su bject of Parliamentary inquiry and of public char"e against "him · but it may be some consolation for you to learn that it is the most seriousocharo-e that th~ en.emies of your nephew have been abl~ to Ta~e up, and shows to what shilts they are dnven for waot of matter of real com~la1l1t. It IS very true, as you well know, from having seen the whole or the greatest part of It, that a very long. and bulky correspondence passed beb,,'een ~e and your nephew on two occasIOns; ~rst, wlth respect to the charges brought agamst hIm by Messrs. Jackson &. Burgoyne, whIch you also well know were most trium­phantly dIsproved, to the entire satisf,wtion of both the African Committee and Sir George Grey; and secondly! a still more lengthened and painfnl correspondence on the subject of the lamented death of hIS late wife. On that unhappy occasion a flood of the cruelest .calumny was poured out against him, both in the public press and In pnva~e society In thiS count.ry, and the task of defending him, as you are aware, devolved entirely on me,and gave nse to a large mass of correspondence between us. This has attracted the notice of parties willing to seize upon anything to annoy him and me. About the penod of the puhhcatlOn of Mr. Blanchard's hfe of Mrs. Maclean, a Dr. Madden was sent out as a commissioner of inquiry to tbe Gold Coast, and lodged ~1 the castle as your nephew's guest. He appears to have availed himself of that opportunity to gain a knowledge that such a correspondence had been going on, and in breach of all confidence and decency, he not only makes it a charge against your nephew, hut represents it as a cor­respondence of a commercial character, in order to support an unfounded charge against. him of being an agent of the hOUSe of Forster & Smith ! Against this cbarge, as against former ones, I feel bound iu justice to defend Mr. Maclean; and I shall feel obliged if you will verify my statement of the real nature of the voluminous cOlTespondence which passed. bEtween him and me on the subj ects alluded to, and which fo.ms the groundwork of this very singular accusation.

" You will naturally be at a loss to account for this vindictive feeling towards your nephew, after all his acknowledged services on the Gold Ooast, and I confess myself unable to do more than guess the cause of it . He appears never to have been a favourite with a certain individual in the Colonial-office, who dislikes him, probably for having governed the Gold Coast, with comparatively trifling means, better thau the Oolonial-office has governed Sierra Leone at ten times the cost; and he has probably incurred the jealousy or envy of others connected with the Gold Ooast, for doing his duty fearlessly and impartially without favouring- their petty interests on the spot. From these motives they would probably be glad to damage him in the opinion of the Committee, in order to prevent his re-appointment m the event of the settlements beiug transferred back to the 01'Own. In no other way caD­l account for it.

U I am, &c.

(signed) " M. Forster."

" My dear Sir, " Colchester, 22 July 1842. I IV'\S tbis morning favoured with your letter of yesterday, and 1 am surprised and sorry

to find that any charge of misconduct should have been broughtagamst my nephew George Maclean, and particularly so,. that hi s correspondence with you should be conSIdered m any way objectionable. 1 beheve that I have seen it alli thefirst,con~erOlng tbe mahclOus attacks made upon him by Burgoyne, and the other relatlOg to the untortunate death of IllS wife, on both 0(' which occasions you successfully defended Illn1 with a kllldness and abIlity never to he forgotten by him or his friends .. .But as to hIS wl'ltmg to you on any subject to the neglect of his "public duties, I cannot beheve It; and as to IllS correspondence and con­versations with myself, I can only say that they always breathed a strong dewe to promote the prosperity of the colony by every means 10 IllS power, WIthout regard to any lOdlVldual interest. .Vith regard to his fitness for hIS sltuatlOD, I need only refer to the 0PUllOn espres.ed of bis conduct by the late Oolomal Secretary, Lord Glenelg.

" M. Forster, Esq. M. P. u &'c. &c. &c."

({ I am, &.c.

(signed) U John Maclean."

To show how scrupulously exact Mr. Maclean is in abstaining from every transaction of a mercantile character, except when called for by aCCident or death, or officially, by the party requiring his assistan~e, ~ may mention that a merchant, a member of Council at Sierra Leone, mlstakmg the character. of IVI ... l\laclean's functions, sent do wn to him from that place a parcel of COWrIes for sale. Mr. Maclean handed them over to a merchant for sale, informlllg the gentleman who sent them of his- mistake.

0 .35, 5 n 4 Speaking

1't1. Forster, Esq. M.P.

3 August 1842.

111. Forster, Esq. M.P.

744 MINUTE;:; OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE TIlE

Speaking generally all Dr. Mndden't. Report, it is another instancc of the d iffi. culties which observ~rs find of obtaining accurate information respecting a country In the condItIOn of the Arn can coast, where the natIves, as is the case in nations much higher in the social scale, are the worst possible authorities respecting their ow'n position and interests; they cannot understand, and there­fore can not meet our inqui ries into the state of their country and social condi­tion; scarcely two individuals of the same tribe can be found to agree 'in thei,' account of or opinion on any subject of investigation. This rema, kable bllt not irexplicablc fact IJas come so often under 111y notice, in my cODl'ersatiuns with th ose who have visited the country, that the additional instance of Dr. Mad­den's errors and misinformation exci tes less sllrprise than it has apparently done with many. 1 must further notice, that that gentleman has so evidently received his faels and his interpretation of those facts only from the parti es with whom he happened to come in contact 1110st, or whose views most agreed with his own prepossessions, that 1 could undertake to point out, in many of the instances in which he has not expressly stated his informant, th e quarter from which the opinion or information came. I II auld furth er remark on the very short time during which Dr. l\J adden remained in Africa, a time inadequate for the collec­tion of any authent ic or important number of facts, even in an European country, in which information of every kind is co ll ected ready to the hano of the inquirer; and on th e fact, that the hea lth of the observer was severely haken during his stuy, by a malady whi ch is well kn ow n, and which he himself de­scribes as pec ul iarl y unfit t ing the mind for exertion : the inaccurate and loose compo ilion of the Repo rt itself may be adduced as a proof of this un fortunate . wan t of hea l til.

10879. Dr. Madden makes frequent a ll usion to th e trade of the Gold Coast l) a monopoly ; do you" ish to make any obse n 'alions upon that subj ect?-T his idea is altogether a crea ture of Dr. I\l adden's imagination; I know of no trade in whi ch there have been so many adventurers for t he la t 30 years, in propor­tion to its ex tent . Some ev idence on this point has already been given. It a ppears in fac t to be a trade peculiarly a ttract ive to speculators, who fanc\' the natives do not 1. 11011' the value of gold , ivo ry, &c. Cape Coast Ca tie and the other Gold Coast settl cll1 c nt~ are l i'oe porb, open to the trade. not only of Eng li -h merchant, 1.)I,t to foreigners, who pay no highf'r duty than we do. Li vcrpool ves cis pas il on their way to the Bight, and cal l there whene l' er th ey Can make an ), thing u.I' it ; in short, it is impo -ib le (or the trade of any place to ue more open to competition. But nothing appears to have been too -trange for Dr. M adden to e ize upo n in hi- desire to speak ill of the Gold Coast and those connect d with it. The ame idea appears to have pp ses ed him at the Gambia, and, if pos ible, wi th st ill less reason. 1 should be most happy to see one ur two addi ti onal resprctab lc hou es engage in tbe Gambia trade, to reli eve our house n om the bllTlhcn of htl \ iog SO much of it.

10880. " ' hatl'l,,ce bctween S,erra Leone and the G old Coast could you na me as el igible for a settlement ?--lnqui ry has led me to bclie\'e that the ri\'er laid dowl1 in Ihe mal' prcpared for the lise of the Com mittee as the' Grand Cesto River,' afTonl - thc be I pos it ion fo r a t rad ing colon),. It he been the site of the palm -oil iuc tori cs of the t r"ders on that part of the coa t ; its bar afJ'ords 11 to 1'2 feet water; the J'\)ad tead tor \ cssels gi ves br tter shelte r th an is to be found on a \'cr)' Ion " line of coa t, sO lll uch so, that a vessel of H .g ton burthcn was once have do~1'1l and coppered there; ptl lm-oi l in quantity is produced in the neig hbourhood. 10'1'0 111 the rxpe rience of the persons em ployed >It the tactorie~ t1w rc, t he climate "ppears, fo r the coast of Af"ica, healthy. [n reference to "Il c.tion lOR-t·O, as ful lows: " You mean that YOIl apprehend th ~t, practically,> he (1I Ir. i'l luc:lulay) was in posse, ion of the trade, bll t not th:H he hnd any chartered !"h:lnt<lg-e g iven to him in it r" to which I answered , "Decidedly nol." To this 1 wish to ad d, " But ill hi posse sion of th t' general trade 0f Sierra Leone, he was ~ccur d uy his command ove r Ihe expenditure of UOI'crn ­Inclll, through the influ ence of the Afri can In titu tion."

I.)

Ordered, b!J The House of Commons. to he Pnllied,

:; August 184~

[Price 10 $.]

Unckr !5lbs. 8 0,;