comparative analysis of a special education teacher interview and observations

Comparative Analysis of Interview and Observations 1

Comparative Analysis of a Special Education Teacher’s Interview

And Observational Data

David W. Richardson

Goshen College


Abstract

This paper compares and contrasts one personal interview with a special education teacher and

three distinct special education classroom observations at Goshen Middle School (GMS),

Eastwood Elementary School (EES), and Concord Junior High School (CJHS). The interview

covers the special education areas of instruction delivery; inclusion and obstacles of inclusion;

amount of service delivered; interactions with students with special needs; peer relationships;

cultural biases and overrepresentation of minorities; and collaboration. Each response to these

areas in the interview will be supported or contrasted in the observations I took in the three

classrooms.


Comparative Analysis of a Special Education Teacher’s Interview and Observational Data

The area of special education contains a vast umbrella of students. I observed special

education students in an array of situations ranging from general education classrooms to

intensive one-on-one instruction. The Friday afternoon interview of B. Walls of EES is used as

my source to compare and contrast it with my recorded observations at three different school

districts.

Instruction Delivery

B. Walls (personal communication, October 16, 2009) reported that it is unique for each

child and you need to place students in a placement where they will be successful. She works

with a lot of disabled students but makes a clear point that just because someone is labeled

disabled doesn’t mean they are academically disabled.

Instructional Delivery varies with each student. I witnessed Mrs. Walls in a sixth grade

astronomy class with one of her students. The general education students all sat in groups of

four while this student sat in front of the teacher’s desk where Mrs. Walls observed the student.

It was interesting to see that even within the general education classroom there can be a variation

in the instructional delivery based on the positioning of a student. The instructional delivery of

his lecture did not vary, although when it came to group work he was solo. I began to wonder if

this student was benefiting the most in this general education placement. I don’t think so.

Although, he was getting the social aspect of being with other students, he was limited by his the

seating arrangement. The lecture was delivered quickly and so I would have to see if small

group or individual instruction would be more effective to impart knowledge on this child. And

just as B Walls told me the importance of assessments in determining the best placement she was

avidly writing down notes on the student’s behavior.


While I was observing students in S. Schleuter’s class at GMS I noted that while three

students were receiving small group instruction from the teacher a fourth student was receiving a

more intensive one-on-one instruction from the paraprofessional.

This same student also was seated in the back of the classroom for whole group

instruction. He may have benefited from being closer to the front when he was working with the

rest of the class. For example, I noticed that he completed one problem and doodled on his paper

for the rest of the time. He displayed a remarkable ability to focus on his drawing. It was very

befitting that he received additional help in this area as my own observation supported it. The

boy has focus it just wasn’t on the right material.

Naturally the next question was how do you determine what is appropriate for the

student. B. Walls (personal interview, October 16, 2009) informed me that the overarching goal

with each student is to have them be educated at grade level with their peers as much as possible.

The limiting factor is behavior. If the student is too disruptive then the student will be pulled out

of the general education and B. Walls may try individual instruction with the student. As she

assesses the student she must consider everybody around the student too.

B. Walls (personal interview, October 16, 2009) stressed that assessment is vital to know

what the students know and don’t know so that she can plan accordingly. During my time I

discovered that CJHS has three different special education math classes. One for low, middle,

and high achieving students and based on their assessments those students are placed in the class

that is most appropriate for them.

B. Walls (personal interview, October 16, 2009) informed me that it depends on the

student and provided an example of assessment by use of agenda books on students and taking

notes throughout out the day. She pulled open a filing cabinet stuffed with past agenda books and


flipped one open to a page and was able to share with me what happened with that student on

that day in that year. I also noticed a phone log next to the phone where she recorded details of

her conversations. This helps when it comes time to speak to parents and her superiors about a

student. It takes supportive evidence to change placements a kid to a more restrictive or less

restrictive environment.

Inclusion and Obstacles of Inclusion

It depends on the student. Some students have behavioral problems that prevent them

from being in general education classrooms. The one aspect I was wondering was it helpful for

an emotionally disabled student to be placed in a classroom full of other emotionally disabled

students. How will these students learn model behaviors? The teacher alone it seems. Yes and

no. B Walls (personal interview, October 16, 2009) reported that the student population at EES

is great and often times they do a chunk of her job for her by modeling good behavior like, for

example, a peer told one special education student to stop picking his nose in class and that it

wasn’t appropriate. It meant a lot more to that special education student hearing it form a fellow

peer than it did from the mouth of B. Walls.

B. Walls (personal interview, October 16, 2009) reported to me that sometimes a student

will be doing just fine in general education with support and when the student’s family moves to

a new district the student is immediately placed into a self contained classroom.

As I mentioned before, it is nice for students to receive that social aspect of general

education but at times the student needs to learn how to read, write, add, subtract, multiply or

divide (B. Walls, personal interview, October 16, 2009) and having them remain in a classroom

where they are experiencing material that is two grade levels above them and are handed a

calculator with the hope that the new material will trickle down to them isn’t always the best


method. On the other hand, she also sees the value in providing them their education at their

level where they are ready to receive it and grow and yet there is always a looming question of

whether pulling someone out of general education is the best choice and wonders if she is

depriving him access to curriculum that he could get something out of it and she struggles with

decisions in this area. The separate math classes at CJHS do support B. Walls (personal

interview, October 16, 2009) idea of placing students in a curriculum that they are best suited to

their level to maximize learning and growth. I saw this at GMS as well. Depending on the

student, for example, one student only spent an hour of math in the special education class which

was his least restrictive class of the day and another student spent a few classes in the special

education classroom and also participated in general education band class.

We typically start kids off in the general education center but there are exceptions (B.

Walls, personal interview, October 16, 2009). One student she received was unsuccessful in

general education prior to entering special education so she ended up spending a good part of the

year educating him in her classroom on proper class room behavior, life skills, and bringing his

skills up to level and now with all the work B. Walls (personal interview, October 16, 2009) put

into the child, he is currently in general education for most of the day.

While observing at EES I observed a special education student in a general education

Astronomy class. It was comforting to see that he did answer one question correctly after he

raised his hand in response to the teacher’s question. I noticed that he was not taking notes so

perhaps it would be better for him to get some intense 1-on-1 instruction on note taking and other

behaviors that will support his academic growth. The decision to switch determined through

continuous assessment of the student. The special education teacher at Concord JHS also took


assessments of students’ ability, charting their progress, and recorded their behaviors through the

course of the period.

Amount of Service Delivered

The mild students at CJHS received a standardized two minute test over addition,

subtraction, multiplication and division. The tests were clearly labeled on top as two-minute

tests but the students were given six minutes to take the first three tests and seven minutes on the

division test. The students were not able to see the timer during testing. The students were

expected to redo homework that wasn’t a C or better.

While I was observing at GMS it really depended on the student because three students

were taught the lesson in small group while another student was taught more intensely with the

paraprofessional in a one-on-one intensive manner. B. Walls (personal interview, October 16,

2009) reports that students tend to ask her questions but she will turn it around on them and ask

them to ask a specific question. Typically what happens is that in narrowing their question down

to a specific question they end up answering their own question and tell her, “Oh I’ve got it.”

She directs questioning students to read the directions. B. Walls (personal interview, October 16,

2009) said that their biggest deficit in her special education kids is their problem solving skills.

Sitting in CJHS I noted that the students were also displaying this generalization. During

the redo of the math lessons students were asking questions to the teacher when there question

would have been answered if they would have simply read the directions. If they stumble on

material the students immediately stop instead of trying to problem solve on their own. There

needs to be a balance between asking questions and attempting to solve your own problems.

Teachers help their students in the long run when they don’t answer every question.

Interactions with Students with Special Needs


Once again this area depends on the child and the level of relationship you have with the

child reports B. Walls (personal interview, October 16, 2009). B. Walls (personal interview,

October 16, 2009) says, “If I have a strong well established relationship I can sometimes ask

more of that child. If it is their very beginnings, I have to be careful of what I ask for because I

want them to understand that I want to support them.” While I was observing at GMS for their

morning math class I stood too close to one student who became agitated and made a bee-line to

the time out room. The teacher informed me that this student is extremely self conscious and

reacts this way when people stand near him. I moved to the other side of the room while she

went into the time out room and told him that she had informed me to give him plenty of room.

He came out a few minutes later and returned to work and I became more conscious of my

physical presence around the students.

Another incident occurred when I was at CJHS with the teacher and a student. The

student was not in his assigned seats and the teacher was frank with him about it and said that he

needed to move to his assigned seat. The teacher knew the student to an extent that supported

the push she gave him to make the right choice.

Peer Relationships

B. Walls is very adept at picking up on cues and seeing through the misbehavior to the

person. I inquired her about her relationships and sought to find out if she uses similar

techniques with her peers. B. Walls reports (personal interview, October 16, 2009) some general

education teachers are wonderful and others you wonder why they ever decided to enter the

profession. According to B. Walls (personal interview, October 16, 2009), a technique she tries

on the general education teachers is to tell them why he will be a great placement with that child

because of this, this, and this and often times it is effective because the general education teacher


will follow your hidden requests in the sweet talk. I did not observe any teachers use this

technique during my observation. I do see the merit to it and will try it with my fellow peers.

B. Walls (personal interview, October 16, 2009) says that many people struggle with the

ability to self reflect on their own skills and what they did wrong and to look for a better way of

doing it. This can be a barrier to becoming an effective special educator. Bottom line, it isn’t

about you (B. Walls, personal interview, October 16, 2009); it is about what you are doing to

help that child and to determine if that is the best method and so it is logical to do the better

method. As good as that sounds, that isn’t the case since you have to have the skill of self

reflecting to find out that your method may not always be the best method with the student.

At the same time, B. Walls (personal interview, October 16, 2009) delivers a stern

warning in regards to staying away from the gripping, complaining, poor attitude teachers that

focus on things they can’t control like parents. During my time I did get the impression that the

teacher was commenting on Mary Beck Elementary school saying how the administration was

warned to not be there after dark because of the potential for falling bullets. That was a shocker

to me since I grew up practicing soccer at the park next to the school. That was the closest

comment to a complaint that I conceived from a special educator during my observation.

Cultural Bias and Overrepresentation of Minorities

B. Walls (personal interview, October 16, 2009) reports that Elkhart Schools have been

nailed for three years in a row for overrepresentation of minorities in mild mentally handicapped

category. The illusion of a child appearing to be mild mentally handicap exists when actually the

student is suffering from a language deficiency. B. Walls (personal interview, October 16, 2009)

said that students who come to school with reading experience may have vocabularies in the

range of 4000 to 6000 while children from homes that don’t read may arrive at school with 1000


thousand to 3000. It’s clear to make the connection here that if a student doesn’t follow

directions that appear normal to the teacher can be considered to be mild mentally handicap

because of their limited language vocabulary.

Another area B. Walls (personal interview, October 16, 2009) brought up in regards to

this is the majority of teachers are white women who generally come from middle class status

and are worlds apart when it comes to relating to children of poverty and a minority race. The

socio-economic differences are far more potent than racial. CJHS was by far the most racially

balanced class and there were just too few students to observe at EES and lastly at GMS I

noticed a higher amount of Hispanic students than any other minority group.

Collaboration

I witnessed collaboration occurring between the paraprofessionals and B. Brooks. I also

saw this occurring at GMS during my first visit with S. Schlueter as she had a meeting with two

other special educators during lunch time. I did not see this occurring at CJHS but I am

confident I would have if I had spent more time there. The idea of having three separate math

classes suggests that the special educators must collaborate with one another to produce an

effective classroom experience for the students.

Although I didn’t see any collaboration between teachers and parents I did hear a very

touching story from B. Walls. B. Walls (personal interview, October 16, 2009) shares with me

the story of a third grader who’s parents had experience countless years of schools calling them

to pick up their child and felt that all the teachers hated their kid. B. Walls doesn’t send the kids

home. Like I’ve mentioned before she has a keen awareness to look past the annoying behaviors

and worked with their child and loved their child. The parents opened up to her in ways they

never had previously done with previous school teachers. Special educators can do all the right


things with the children and parents will still get mad. In those situations there is just nothing

that can be done.

Conclusion

Over all the observations supports the content from the interview more so than it

contrasts. Special educators face a broad category in their delivery of their services to their

students and also in their interactions with general education teachers, administrators, principals,

and parents.


Observation Notes

Teachers Observed:

Brook Walls: Eastwood Elementary School 2.45 hrs Sept 28 & Oct 16 2009

I was escorted by a paraprofessional to the classroom that Brooke was in when I first arrived.

She was in a general education class helping out one of her students. The general classroom was

arranged to form groups of four. The special education student sat alone. Brooke takes down

many notes throughout the class period. These notes are then put into his file and reviewed at

later times. Much of the time it didn’t seem that the student was paying attention. His behavior

led me to believe that he was off the topic. He surprised me by answering the teacher’s question

of how fast light travels. This was an example of inclusion but at the same time I wondered if

the student was learning anything for this teacher? The teacher was doing a straight lecture that

even me felt was a bit beyond these students vocabulary. Was he being accommodating to his

special education student? I thought he could do better and Brook conveyed that this teacher had

a tendency to lecture above the students. I wonder if that special education student is learning as

much as he could be in this class versus a separate class with Brooke Walls. Granite the teacher

knows a lot about astronomy and I only saw him a short snap shot of his teaching.

The bell rang and we left to go to her classroom with Brooke. The room has a swing chair inside

of it. She spent the next period with two students a boy and a girl. One boy was a sweet heart in

her words and all that he wants is a place to call home and to be out of foster care. The boy was a

Hispanic and the other student was a black female. She taught them math. The worksheet that

they worked on together had to do with measuring all sorts of items. She took a very concrete

approach to this worksheet. When the worksheet asked what was more 34 cups of water or a bath

Sink

Whiteboard Door

Game Area – Puzzles, Board games

Computers on this table

Teachers Desk

Teachers Desk


tub. They actually went and turned on the sink and filled the sink with 34 cups of water and they

were able to decide after seeing it. The rest of the problems were also concretely solved.

She also went over the vocabulary that appeared in each problem. At the same time she did

attempt to extract as much information out of the students as possible. This worksheet looked

like a worksheet that would easily be seen.

Sally Schlueter: Goshen Middle School 2.45 hrs Sept. 25 & 29 2009

First arrival was off the record to set up additional day to monitor due to an exam being that day

in my Special Education class. I arrived during her lunch hour and was a witness to a meeting

with two other teachers. It appears that collaboration is going strong with this group.

I left and returned on the morning of September 25. I accompanied the paraprofessional

downstairs to the busses so that we could escort the ED students from the bus to the classroom.

They do this for the safety of the children. No incidents occurred during this time.


The two rooms closest to the door are rooms for students to go whenever they want too. Some

students sleep in there occasionally. Others go to “cool off.” They are time out rooms for

students to go and think. There is no connotation that these rooms are for punishment. It is more

like a room where students can go to get a handle on their feelings.

Observation started at 810 a.m. and the math activity was 8:32 – 9:39.

Students may be from different school districts. Students are known to be transported by bus

from Fairfield and Middlebury.

There were two white boys and two Hispanic boys in this math class. Supporting the statistics

there are more boys in the ED class than girls. There is one white boy that spends one hour in

this class and is then is escorted to the office whereupon he is met by a person and is transported

to Bashor Home. A math quiz is handed out and they are given five minutes to work on it. An

overweight Hispanic boy does one problem and then draws pictures on his paper.

Inclusion in general education is dependent on their emotions and performance.

We escort the students from the bus to the class to prevent fighting.

The math lesson today was line of symmetry. This content is typically learned in elementary

school so the content of this class is lagging a grade level or more behind the general education

classroom. She provided shapes to discover symmetry that students can fold like squares, circles,

and triangles.

By 8:47 there were no emotional outbursts.

Teacher uses positive reinforcements to encourage good behavior with candy treats and prizes.

Offers grade snack to students to help with brain power.

She is a very calm teacher – comments are positive and contribute to what we are doing. She

uses visual examples to reinforce ideas.


Paraprofessional takes the overweight Hispanic student to one of the tables in the snack area and

he is allowed to use a calculator. Mrs. Schlueter teaches the math lesson to the other three

students.

Students finish the math worksheet and get the vocabulary folder. Other student continues to do

work sheet.

Congruence lesson – What is/isn’t for their notes?

Students write down their own meaning – she leads them to think of their own meanings.

9:06 put note books away

Teacher teaches students the idiom of “piece of cake.” It means easy she says to them and that it

is a term that is used outside of the classroom too.

908 she gives them a worksheet and it is too easy for the students

She starts with multiplication – students make no complaints as they get the whiteboards.

The teacher touches places her hand on Tim’s shoulder and he shuts down. He doesn’t like it

when people touch him.

Next activity is to get the white marker boards and work out the problem to and get immediate

feedback.

Division practice starts and I am walking around the room watching students work and I remain

too close to one student as he is working on division. The student does not know division and

multiplication facts/table. This student gets up from his desk and goes straight to the time out

room and remains there for 5 minutes. The teacher tells me that I need to move away from him.

He is very self conscious of himself and performs poorly when people stand close to him.

I move to the other side of the room and the boy does leave the room after about 5 minutes.


I make the mental note that I am starting to see the ED in these students with how they process

sensory information. It is like the brain is awry.

Dry erase boards are put away at 928.

Students are given free time for the last 10 minutes. Two students go to the game area and play a

game together.

9/29 Observation notes in an afternoon class

It is the last period of the day. The subject being taught is life skills.

Teacher uses positive rewards to reinforce good behavior. Two students are publicly praised for

good behavior at the beginning of class.

The group work is for them to come up with 4 steps for giving feedback.

Students collaborate

2:40 Students working together effectively, it is hard to tell that these kids have ED.

2:43 pm Substitute teacher is encouraging a group of two students to develop a larger list. He is

hinting at one step but one student doesn’t get it and shuts down.

2:45 pm – the group members return to their chairs and they report their list to the teacher who

then compiles a large list.

Teacher once again praises students on their good group work.

I notice the overweight Hispanic boy sitting at his desk while the class is playing a game of

hangman. I inquire about his hobby of drawing. He says he has a drawing book at home. I

encouraged him to show me his good work as I was attempting to pull out his strength. He

started drawing and the teacher came back to us and asked him if he would participate in the

group activity and put the drawing away. I apologized for disrupting him from the class game.


Ten minutes before bell - The paraprofessional leads three students out in the hallway. A smaller

student attempts to agitate a bigger student. The bigger student appears to be so sluggish that it

doesn’t bother him. The paraprofessional asked the student to stop the behavior and he

continued to do it so she turned her body and was very direct with him and said to stop it.

We walked downstairs and walked toward the glass doors. She held onto the students bag and he

said let go and she didn’t and he experienced what it felt like when you ask someone to stop and

they don’t do it.

Return to classroom and remaining students play hangman with the teacher as a whole class.

Teacher allows students to leave before the bell rings to get their bags for safety reasons.


Kristen Dutton: Concord Junior High School 1hr November 13 2009

Mild disability

1st Period

There are eight students. 7 male to 1 female and 5 white to 1 black to 2 Hispanic is the gender

and racial breakdown.

Student is not sitting in correct seat. Teacher asks him to move over to correct seat. He is

oppositional at first and is very slow to move.

756 school bell rings. Students are all quiet.

Schedule is posted on the TV for all the students to see. They know what is coming in advance.

These students seemed to be a typical gen ed class and was wondering why they were carrying

the SPED label.

8am Class reviews math info

Discusses mathematical vocabulary terms with students.

Students are handed Time Tests – Drill and Practice

The sheet of paper says two minute addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division timing.

Teacher tells them they get six minutes first three and 7 min on division

Intervention: extra time on tests.

She does the last time trial by giving students head start.

Most challenging behaviors are talking out, and an unending conflict between 3 students.

Mild categories cover a large umbrella of SPED.

Note: During time tests I hear voices from the other side of the wall. Distracting for students?

Yes, teacher next door shows videos and students wonder why they don’t get to as well.

Classroom door is also open – hear noises from passing teachers.


Dutton spent 5 years at Mary Beck – “Don’t stay after dark.”

Students are unable to see the stop watch.

S&LD Student delivers Goshen News to the teacher in middle of timed trials.

There is a couch in the room and during trial one student goes and lays down on it.

Teacher praised students on their progress. At the beginning of the year she noted they used their

multiplication tables and today no one was using them for their time trials.

Looking around the room I see posters on the wall with the following quotes

1. “Life is full of choices. Choose carefully.”

2. “An error doesn’t become a mistake until you refuse to correct it.”

3. “Telling a lie is like seeing a ghost – it can come back to haunt you.”

4. “It’s all about trying.”

5. “Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.”

6. “No matter what you may say, it’s your actions that speak for you.”

7. “Don’t just do it. Do it right.”

8. “If you at first don’t succeed. You’re in good company.”

Trade papers and circle wrong answers

Students read of answers

8:32

Multiple directions given, finish charting the time test scores, finish the chapter test, and work on

redo. Students must score 80% on their assignments. One student of the trio that are in conflict

tells one of the others that he is going to beat another student after school, teachers says no you

aren’t. She tells the student, “I should take you to the office for that.” But doesn’t

Students continue to fill out bar graphs to chart progress.


Students have time to do miscellaneous work.

John is shutting down – displaying ED behaviors not conducive to the learning.

Students are working on redos, students redo HW that have scores below a C.

“Holy Crap” – Justice 2-9 and 2-11,

Teacher tells the student, “You are doing it now. If you don’t finish 3 problems by the end of

class you will be spending lunch with me.”

Students ask questions without first reading the directions – that happens in the gen ed class at

GMS.

Chairs are set up in groups of four and five. There are a total of 17 chairs.

She tells me that they group students based on ability within special education into three groups

of low, middle, and high.


Brook Walls Interview

Instructional Delivery

It is very specific for each child. ID has to do with when you are in special ed at least you have to

group children with where they are going to work. Some children work at a faster pace than

others, especially in my room children are mostly disabled but doesn’t mean that there are

academically disabled so I have children at varying levels and it has to happen in the learning

method or atmosphere environment that is best for the child LRE. I may pull children out to

work 1 on 1 with them in my room or in a quiet location. I may go into the classroom and sit

with them and do work with them. I may pre-teach skills before they see it in the gen ed circ. It

really just varies for what they need and their academic goals are?

How do you determine?

Ultimately, our goal is to have children educated as much as possible with their peers and at

grade level as much as possible. You really have to look at how successful they are. For some of

my children when they are not successful they have massive behavioral problems. They get

frustrated and they shut down or they have a temper tantrum and do something else. So a lot of

times I have to look at behavioral problems as well. Like, I have another child that is very

distracting to everyone that is around him. I may pull him out to do some instruction with him

alone or direct instruction in my room just because it is too difficult on the other children to have

him in there because they can’t get it. You really have to look at everybody. A lot of times I give

a lot of assessment to children to see where they are at. The big push is too find, to do progress

monitoring and assessment based on research based interventions so I will pull. I just won’t

make up my own tests. I will pull something and give it to them like a Dibbles, which is a

literacy kind of test or curriculum based measurement for math just to see where you functioning


at or where you are making progress. I generally, decide based on the assessment before I teach

it. I have to know what you know. I have to know what you don’t know in order to know how to

plan for you.

You just get to know your kids and you have to do formative assessment when you take

assessment book or hand to see where are we? So I know where to go. It is more specific. You

aren’t like I am going to teach all these concepts and you might need some of them. You teach

specifically.

Kind of like pre-assessments?

Yes, basically yea, a very easy way to say it. It is really based on that. My pre-assessment sitting

and talking with the child and working one-on-one with them?

Basically is it kind of like your judgment when you are evaluating them in the classroom setting?

The law says LRE?

The assessment data works for that. Then behavioral data works for that. I do a lot of data

tracking on a daily basis. Sometimes I will tally things for like, how many times does this child

call out in the classroom. So if they are calling out 75 times or talking, or making in appropriate

noise this many times in a math class it might not be appropriate to keep them in the classroom.

So yea, it is kind of professional judgment. But you should back yourself up. You have parents

that will, “hey why are you doing this?” I thought it was a good idea is not a good answer.

Sounds like records very very important…

Yes they are

And your assessment

Yes

Do you ever do any sort of just a lot of note taking. What type of assessment do you do?


It depends on the child. When I have more violent children I take a daily kind of agenda planner

and I will write in it every single day. I will track what has happened and has been helpful

because I have had some children that I have had to say, “I think that they need to be placed in a

facility. This is not working.” And in order for my superiors, my administrators “Well why do

you think so?” I pull out a book and he has this many incidents of aggressions in a week. Here is

where, I would write in there, here is where we modified the behavior plan, here is where we

intensified the interventions, here is where we modified the environment, and it still isn’t

working. I have evidence that shows look here’s what I have done. And it is very good when

parents sometimes come in and ask what do you mean that is a problem. If you have data that

shows here is how many times I have contacted you. Here is how many times I sent a letter

home. Here is how many times I have made an attempt to inform you. I have a note pad by my

phone where I write down my phone log. I have two of them. I keep them. I have a folder of

previously years phone notes and it is kind of interesting to read them. I can go back and I can

put a date on it and flip flip flip we spoke on the 16th and this is what we talked about and it is

really convienent and it is very important for you. When parents call you write it down, just so

and so called on this day. You know, I’ve called you ten times. Well I have my phone log and I

have three calls and here is two where I called you back. You know. So it is very helpful.

Do you ever utilize technology? Record phone calls? Video tape students?

I have never recorded a phone call. I ask for permission to video record a student. I once brought

a video camera and hid it in a plant. The parents were ok. I wanted the child to see what he

looked like it when he was doing what he was doing. He didn’t understand hey, this is what you

look like and sound like, no I don’t, and so well look that is you and so sometimes that is


effective and so it really depends on the child. This was an autistic student. You know. Hey do

you see one of these things isn’t like the other.

Wow

Forms of assessment you have used in the past and that determines your instructional delivery all

based on the assessment and then that relates with the inclusion. And your obstacles?

Inclusion is wonderful in a lot of ways not just for the child you are including but for the other

children that are learning how to cooperate and learning how to work in the community. That is

the problem sometimes. Some teachers are fantastic at building a classroom community and

some teachers will let one child be totally a lamb to the slaughter and they just don’t do anything

about it. They don’t want too. It is too hard or they want to be friends with the kids more than

they want to be the authoritarian. I have seen the different types. I have the inclusion be amazing.

I have seen it be really painful. Sometimes it depends on the teacher. Sometimes it depends on

the child. Sometimes it depends on the expectations in the classrooms. Sometimes children just

can’t meet them. And I honestly feel like it should be a continuum. I see children placed in a self

contained classroom when they shouldn’t. They should be in another class with other people

with support. I have had students of mine be successful in a classroom with support, they move

to a different corporation and they immediately go into a self contained classroom, irregardless.

Self contained classroom is where you just have the SPED students. Usually ED is multi-age 4,

5, 6 in one room. In some situations, some children can’t, just not feasible or well for example

you’ll put a child in the gen ed and they are participating but they aren’t getting a lot of academic

intervention. That academic intervention needs to be intense in small group or 1- on – 1 and at

the level that they are ready to receive the instruction. It is great that they are getting the social

aspect, they are getting their related to their peers but sometimes I am just like, I need you to


learn how to read, you know, I need you to learn how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide. And

you are not doing it when you are sitting in a room doing work two grade levels above with you

can and you have a calculator in your hand. I have been told before to give them a calculator and

stuff will trickle down. I can see the value in that but I can also see the value in giving them

instruction at their level where they are ready to receive it and where they will grow. I have seen

kids grow that way where I have pulled them out and give them direct instruction, but then

sometimes I question myself am I denying them access to something, am I denying them access

to curriculum that they could get something out of and I am making judgment, limiting them. So

it is a really hard call to make.

Another grey area, not black and white.

Assessment data is great. Are they making progress here? No. Let’s do something different. It

takes people who know how do it and have time to do it.

Would you put them in a gen education class first to see if it works?

I always start out with the most inclusive first. But it depends. I had one student that came to me

and he was just he had been in gen ed and he was so unsuccessful that I spent a good part of the

year with him in my room working on behaviors and bringing some skills back up to level. Now

he is in gen ed all day except for one class. We needed that time to build the skills and now you

are in there and you are expected to do it. There was a maturity there that needed to reach that

wasn’t there.

How do you feel about putting all the ED students in one room, keep them excluded, and they

aren’t able to learn model behavior from the gen ed students.

Sometimes I can say it a couple of times to a kid but until the kid next to them says stop picking

your nose. They don’t get it. You know but or just like that isn’t cool or friends don’t do that.


They don’t hear it from me but they hear it from their peers. It is a much more intense learning

experience. I think that there should be a range. I think that other children shouldn’t be placed in

a position that is around a child that could hurt them. I have seen violent children that are

explosive and other kids that are afraid for them. It is not fair to the other kids. And it is not safe

cause school should be safe number 1 and other times I think oh man, Eastwood is great because

the student population is really great. The kids are for the most part nice. They have very decent

communication skills. They want to help each other. I have seen children come into my program

and it is like the other children are doing my job for me. They are teaching more than I could

teach by the social skills that they are presenting. Do you want to play? This is how we take

turns. Wow. Yes, yes, yes, thank you for doing that. It is wonderful. It is I think there too is

different kinds of children with ED. You could take a child with a BD and put them in a room

with a child with a real ED and that child with the conduct disorder or oppositional defiance and

set up every other kid in the room and push their boundaries just because they like to watch and

it and it is a game and it is about control and that is bad.

Explosive?

It can be so it depends on the mix that you get. Yea.

Some over lap, where do you

IEP- what I write on it is far less than what I actually deliver. I put the minimum down and I will

probably give more but the minimum is so that the parents can understand and so that sometimes

I will not be able to spend all day with your child but some days I will be able to do more, but

here is the instruction that I am guaranteed to give you on a regular basis. It is hard sometimes. I

find to get some extra intervention services in because there is not a lot of time you can pull them

out of a classroom. They will miss important instruction and it is really hard to balance that


together. I don’t want to pull kids out of recess. It is depressing. Nobody wants to do that. So it

varies. Some children with behavioral disorders or emotional disorders or even just children with

regular special education or even children in gen ed who don’t have any label whatsoever have

something called learned helplessness where they sit back and wait, someone will do it for them,

or help them, when they don’t need that help, they need to make that effort on their own. You

will find children going through elementary school with an adult right next to them, like every

year, every minute of the day, there is a grown up sitting and getting paid to spend all day with

one child helping them through elementary school. Some children are so low that they need that,

other children, wow, you have set that child up so badly and they are going to leave school and

guess what and no one will be paid to sit next to them at their job. No one will be paid to follow

them around to make sure that they have everything they need and so you have to start teaching

them those skills on their own or you have really harmed that child. So sometimes the children

behaviors want attention and the less attention you give them the better or you teach them how to

seek attention appropriately. I have had parents, if you ignore them you are doing your job. You

can’t pay attention to that. They don’t need your help, go help someone else. Monitor but don’t

sit next to them. Do not read them every single question. Do not get their book out of their desk

for them. If they are not physically disabled they can pull a book out of their desk.

You have expectations?

Yea, I want them. By the time they leave they shouldn’t need me. they may need special ed

through middle school and high school but what I really like to see ultimately my highest goal

that they don’t need any service at all when they graduate or need a very minimum amount of

service like check in or resource help. They need to know when to know when they need help. I


think I am not getting this. I think I need to go and ask someone to help me instead of doing

nothing. Or just fill in the blanks.

Metacognition

They need to know what they know and when they need help.

How do you teach that?

I turn things around at the child very often. They ask for help and I tell them that you need to ask

me a specific question. I need help you fixing my roof but it is not something you are going to do

for me right now. So what do you need help on, and they’ll say “well this.” What is this? They

need to verbalize it. You have to tell me. Well, I don’t understand what this question asks or this

word I don’t know. Or I don’t know how to do the next step of the math. Half the time where I

do that and they look back at the question and they go oh never mind. They don’t think past the

first layer and if it didn’t come immediately, they stop thinking, oh, I need help, you need to

learn how to dig and problem solve. Most special education children biggest deficit is problem

solving and that is a big struggle. I had one child that was very strong at problem solving and he

was a very low reader. But because he was such a good problem solver he was so high

functioning and even with the low reading ability. He passed the ISTEP last year because he is

able to problem solve, he is able to take context and put it together in ways and his problem was

decoding. He couldn’t decode the words. As soon as he could decode them he had enough. Other

children can decode the words, or they don’t have the vocab.

Provide service?

By the time he left me he had minimum amount of service. He had Wilson Reading and

Intervention almost on a daily basis for two years and he grew tremendously in his reading

ability. Huge leaps and bounds and it was one-on-one direct instruction. And he it was really the


biggest frustration he had which caused a lot of behavioral problems so when he could function

in that way he was independent. He used to have a para with him. He had no one with him when

he left.

Textbook example

Go forth and prosper

Fifth grade, was very sad to see him go.

Interactions with students with special needs

What are the differences in the way you interact with your students?

It all depends on the child and the level of relationship you have with the child. If you have a

strong well established relationship I can sometimes ask more of that child. If it is there very

beginnings, I have to be careful of what I ask for cause I want them to understand that I want to

support them. If I know them well enough I may push them a lot harder. I think it is important

for every child who has a disability ensures that there are multiple intelligences and there are lots

of ways to be intelligent and that learning differently doesn’t mean that they don’t have talent in

other places.

Mrs Harick and I go into classrooms and well will do a fair and equal speech. What is fair and

equal? But we will also, we have a list of famous people with disabilities and we have the list

what do you think? Did you know that this person had a disability? Did you know that this

person had a learning disability? Did you know this person had a stutter? Or things like that.

Kids are pretty surprised sometimes to see some people, that have disabilities. They need to

understand that you are not, your worth as a human being is not entirely related to your text score

or how well you do in school. You should do well in school, that is great, but if you aren’t the


greatest reader on the planet, it doesn’t mean that you don’t have value or won’t do some

amazing them.

Do you tie in personal experiences with students?

Some stories are true and some stories are made up to give students perspective. Once when I

was a kid I had a really hard time with that too. Just to give them perspective. Well, yea, one

even I have some gifted students that are kind of, hate to use lazy since it has so many

connotations with it, well say unmotivated and I have to talk to them. Hey you know what I was

a gifted student. I was one of the kids in school that never cracked a book but got an A on the

test. It took me. I had a moment of revelation when I went to boarding school that challenged me

because I had no idea really how to study. How to really learn? I had just gotten along as I went

and so it was quite I had to learn it from scratch. It isn’t easy but I get it. I think that mathematics

is developmental. I could do a lot of manipulations with numbers and symbols. I didn’t have the

understanding of number sense that would of really made a big difference. It came later. I don’t

think it was taught. Not really an emphasis. I relate to kids and that I guess I really my students

particular because a lot of my students have sensory needs.

A lot of my students have problems with sensory needs. I was a child and my nephew had

sensory integration disorder my mom swears that I probably did too but no one told her. I would

scream and yell about socks and all kinds of things like that so I understand too that this is

bothering me and I can’t do anything until it is done. It is too loud I can’t even concentrate. I

think that is why I have had so many autistic students put into my room. They have that need to

have that taken care of and like I get that, I understand that a little bit better because I think I

dealt with it. Lots of little things. Some of my kids really like soft textures and things. I’ll bring

things into the room or you know let them have something to hold. I put Velcro on the desks for


some kids cause they just need something to rub and I understand that or the need to have some

place quiet. One student that was angry, bipolar, autistic child with Aspergers. He would say that

I can hear them turning their pages. He could be in a silent room where everyone was reading but

it still wasn’t quiet enough. I taught him how to ask. You need to ask. I need to go somewhere

else. Can I please have this work in another place. I take him to my time out room or something

and he would work absolute silent room but you had to give him that absolutely silent room.

He’d do everything you ask him too but he needed to learn how to verbalize it if he could.

Outside of screaming. Laugh…. And we are all making him a slave and torturing him.

Progression?

Yes, I still talk to his mom a lot. He is doing really well. It was a long 3 years that he and I made

a lot of progress. It was slow sometimes but and that is when I get interactions with students. He

and I we made a relationship that was difficult one to build but it came. Oh… he was like a

grumpy old man. He would complain, argue, and yell at you all the time. And it was teaching

him how to, seriously, you just can’t do that. I don’t come to work every day so you can yell at

me when I try to teach you man. He has learned how to communicate. He has learned how to

say things. And he has learned how to say that you know I have autism sometimes I don’t

understand so people can know hey not just screaming at you cause I am crazy.

Spend a lot of time with kids… more than parents.

Extensive amount of time. Sometimes they call you mom, grandma, oh Mrs. Walls. That is true

for every teacher though.

They all go on, that is ok… they need to go on.

Relationships form with gen ed teachers


Yea that is a question… got a lot of issues with me. Sometimes you work with absolutely

amazing gen ed teachers and sometimes you just work with gen ed teachers and ask yourself why

are you a gen ed teacher. I don’t understand. This must be a parallel universe.

Specialized with behavior – pick up on cues – apply that with gen ed teachers

There are ways to get people to do things for you. And there are ways.. it sounds manipulative. I

try to teach my students that you catch flies with honey. And I try to tell them that when they get

nasty. Vinegar isn’t getting you anywhere. You know a lot of times its funny. Some teachers you

are like oh, you want them to do something so you praise them even before they do it and I knew

that is why he was going to be a good placement with you cause you would be able to….

Describe the behavior that I want the teacher to do with that child. I respect a lot of my peers and

I learn from my peers all the time. I don’t have all the answers. The SPED teacher across the hall

and I, we work together a lot and its helpful to have someone else to bounce an idea off of. Some

people take things personally and they have such a hard time and I really think it is important to

look at your own skills, and look at your own teaching and question yourself and be able to say

that I think I did this wrong and how I can do this better. There are so many people that can’t do

that. It is just so limiting so when you can say that you know what I think I am not going in the

right direction with this child or maybe I didn’t make the right choice, what do you think? Here

is what I have got. Being able to hear someone’s feedback is really important cause it isn’t about

you in the end it is about what kind of job you are doing and are you helping this child. Some

people just can’t deal with that. I always want corrective feedback, you know not meanly, It is

always welcome. I want to know if there is a better way of doing this because I will do it the

better way. Why would I not? That would be silly. That is probably similar to what my autistic

children would say. Why wouldn’t you do it that way? That way is better? Why would I tell a


lie? Why would I say something that is not true? Why would you even say it? So I mean anyway,

there is a lot of building politics. If you are thinking of when you are a teacher avoid teachers

that gripe all the time about everything especially if they are correcting you about things that you

can’t control. Oh these kids parents. Every now and then you gripe about the parents but if you

are going to spend all your time on how bad those parents are you can’t change that. You have 8

– 230 and they go home and they never do homework outside of school you don’t have any

control over that. You can offer time after school You can offer consequences and rewards but

ultimately you are never going to control them and their parents and what happens when they are

outside of school so stop acting like that if only if that would change everything would be better.

Or teachers these kids, menstruation, wa…wa…wa.. whine waste of my time blah blah blah… it

is just never good for you, avoid it, at all costs. Try to keep away. Don’t get in the griping bitter

crowd. If you are getting that way just take a break.

Who moved my cheese? Read this book.

It is about dealing with change and not being psycho

Cultural bias, Racial

Elkhart school has been nailed for 3rd year in a row of overrepresentation of mild or mentally

handicapped. Teachers are like this kid does need help.

There is a difference between a mild mental handicap and language. If you don’t have enough

language to function successfully where you are then you will look like you have a mild mental

handicap or if the vocabulary isn’t there or … People don’t understand how important it is for

children. When children come into school and some children has read books with their parents

and they have a vocabulary of 4000 – 6000 words and other children come in and have a

vocabulary of 1 2 3 thousand words. That is huge. How do you look like you understand


directions if you don’t understand half of what a teacher is saying. Or if they are coming at it

from a completely different way of speaking to children that other children so, that is a really,

really sticky area. Language development is really important. People do not understand how

important it is a huge chuck of it is vocabulary. It is not just we are going to do vocab words this

week, it is being able to say I don’t know this word, how does it fit into context. What are the

underlying words inside of it, and things like that you don’t have the language, you don’t have it.

And there is definitely I mean look at most teachers are upper to middle class white women most

of the time and they are not going to relate the same necessarily to African American children

coming from a completely different family environment. It is not saying that one is better or

anything they are different. There are a lot of girls that come out of college and they have not

grown up in a situation where they have interacted with children that are coming from those

kinds of environments. There are books about it. You can look them up. It is a whole different

ball game. And just like having someone look you in the eye and tell me that. In some cultures, is

aggressive, to look right in the eye.

The point is that there it is a difficulty and there is not a level playing field. It is not just a

African American difference. It is difference of socio-economic status. People don’t understand

how the frame work.

Book by Ruby Payne Frame work for understanding poverty – you may read it in your studies. It

is important. It is a different mindset. There are a different set of rules that people who live in

poverty follow than people who live in middle class than people who live in upper class. You

can’t move out of your socio-economic status. You can’t move into the next class, even if you

have a lot of money, you have to learn the rules first. Look at the people who win a million

dollars but they have lived in a trailer all their live and they show up in a black tie dinner and


they may show up wearing neon pink and you see the difference and it is there and so poverty

has a huge effect on a child’s ability to succeed in school. They look at all kinds of research.

There is a direct correlation between the two. You don’t have this, you are when you are thinking

that you don’t have food when I come home from school tonight, you are not going to learn as

well, if you aren’t sleeping with a regular structure and parents put you to bed every night and

understand basic nutrition and your body isn’t going to function as well. You won’t learn as well.

When you don’t hear vocabulary you won’t function as well. When you don’t have life

experience. When you are reading text a big chunk of text of comprehension comes from your

relating to the text. If you can relate to something you have seen or heard or have done it makes

more sense to you. If you have no idea you’re reading a book about skiing but you have never

been outside of the inner city or reading book about camping you haven’t been out of inner city

you don’t understand as much as someone else who has. It is just there. So you shouldn’t put a

child in special education just because they have that difference. The big part of RTI is about, its

not about are they behind everyone so they need special ed… can they learn like other people?

Can they learn at the rate that is normal for this child? For example, I can have a child that is two

grade levels below and we start an intervention with this child and we do progress monitoring

and they are making growth and a pretty good rate or you have another child and they are not

making growth with same intervention or intensified intervention. One of those children can

learn, they just may not have had the opportunity, or effective instruction. That doesn’t mean that

they are special education. That doesn’t mean that they have a disability. They haven’t been

provided something that they need.

Another child is maybe though is not learning, is not moving at the rate that they should be.

Maybe they are learning but it is so much slower than the other child.


How do you get this kid who needs it the resources without putting him in special ed. Federal

dollars?

Never enough

RTI point of it is that there is supposed to be interventions for those children. Tier I is the

biggest, general education. We are making sure everyone is on target. We give them assessments

to make sure they are progressing where they are supposed to be. Not working move to Tier 2.

Tier 2 is a little bit more help and intervention. I have seen model schools where you will see,

like this one in California and reduced their special education identification by 60%. They did

was they did progress monitoring for their RTI. They had time set aside during the school day

where kids went into intervention groups. Kids that were not functioning, where they should be

and they got intervention. They had staff to do it and every kid could be part of a group special

ed or not and they did progress monitoring. And so the thing is that is where you put it in. You

build it into your school. You build intervention. This the thing that people are so crazy that if

you put staff specialized in doing this and you build the time and resources in and the children

get what they need and then they progress, you don’t have to move them into special education.

So that is a good question you are asking cause it isn’t answered.

A lot of school corporations are like ok so well like they need this intervention who is going to

do it? Somebody volunteers. I am taking groups of kids that aren’t mine on a regular basis cause

I actually have the time right now. I have a low student roster and I am doing intervention. They

are not SPED kids. For RTI or for our GI purposes.

No established amount of people?

Whoever is available?


Her SPED kids’ needs come first. If they need more service she has to drop the other kids. You

know and I don’t want too. A lot of teachers do tutoring after school. Gen ed teachers will stay

after school and work with their students that need extra help on their own time, not getting paid,

so I mean, I think it needs to be addressed. If you put money in the right places. Like more

staffing, special ed staffing and be more effective in hire working but that takes a lot of people

and you don’t always agree to make an effective plan and follow through. Bureaucracy causes it

not to happen. That is a downer question sorry. That is collaboration right there.

Collaboration –

I worked with other teachers, talk with other teachers. What do you need? How can I support to

you? Fifth grade teachers plan together and they do their instruction kind of the same and share

students. They have been sharing groups. I have a kid at this level and you have three kids at that

level so put them in a reading group. I’ll take some of your high kids and things like that so they

have really done some neat things.

How do you feel that collaborating with parents?

I found that teachers don’t understand sometimes don’t get the lingo in school. Teachers are in it

all day and special ed. teachers LRE, IEP, and PLEP and parents are sitting their nodding cause

they don’t want to look stupid and they don’t know and understand what we are doing and they

don’t understand their rights as a parent, they don’t understand SPED law or the experience is

new to them. You get a parent come into a case conference and there are 8 staff members there.

All professional and we are going to talk about the child and it is usually what is wrong with

their child and there is this one parent on their own and maybe not feeling like they are on their

level. Probably feel like they are drowning or they don’t want to tick the teachers off cause the

teachers are working with their child so they are like I don’t think you are doing something well


to the teacher. Teacher gets huffy. Who gets to pay for it? The child and so it is interesting and

sometimes you have parents that you have to be totally honest with them and its painful but I

tried to do it cause it is more important to me that the child gets what they need. I am not trying

to mean to anyone but I am definitely going to tell them the truth about things. It is not fair not to

do that and it’s not fair to lead them onto things that is suddenly not like your child is reading at

this level and this is where you are at. We are working on it but this is where it is at and I am not

going to sugar coat it. I do try to fit the positive in.

Work toward common goal with parents? Do you see equality with parents?

My brother has SPED needs. I tell the parents that I get you know this child more than I do and I

understand that you have been with this child since he or she was born. Exception is foster

parents. I think it is important to when parents think you that cause it is not real and you are

trying to convince them and really know that you care about the child and that you like their

child. I have had parents come in with a child who has been difficult since kindergarten and I get

them 3rd or 4th grade. They have dealt with teachers who couldn’t stand their child. They have

dealt with schools that have called them every day. Then here is me. I am not sending your child

home. I kind of probably arrogant I think I really enjoy I mean tooting my own horn. I like the

weird kids. I enjoy some of those things and I can see past the really annoying behaviors. Kids of

other people find them really annoying ok you know I see the endearing part of it because I did

have a bro with SPED needs. I had a parent, this one mom, they came in and their son was

getting an award ceremony to give awards for different things and she gave them and she was

crying and she was videotaping and said he has never gotten award for anything ever. He has

never been recognized for anything, ever. And he was a brilliant smart little autistic child who

just had big behavior problems. People didn’t realize this but that he was a cuddly, sweet, funny,


odd, little thing that his parents absolutely enjoyed him. They saw a side of him that the school

never saw. School saw temper tantrum, nasty behavior, the wailing, pushing every button and

every line he could. They never got to see the side the parents did. Nobody even likes our kid

and they loved him and I enjoyed him and he was really funny and enjoyable and I think that

once they saw that those parents really opened up so much more than they had done to anybody.

Other parents get mad at you and there is nothing you can do about it. Some kids will tell on you

and parents should listen to their children but seriously you need to call me to get the whole story

before you believe that I did this, this or this. Or that I said this or this. Did he mention what he

did? Did he mention the part where he threw the chair?

comparative analysis of a special education teacher interview and observations

Documents