s Executive Interview

POLLSTAR Summer 1998 Page 11

Williams dabbled in a couple ofmusic business-type ventures in col-

lege but was never really serious.After college, he joined the Army.When he got out, he went on the

road with his former bandmateAlex Taylor, James Taylor’s brother.At that time, Williams’ responsibili-ties ranged from playing harmonica

on stage to lugging amplifiers.He stayed on the road with Tay-

lor for a year or so before becoming

road manager for a band calledWhite Witch, which was onCapricorn Records.

He also dabbled in concert pro-moting and artist management atthat time. But he really got into the

“big time” when Alex Hodgesbrought him into the ParagonAgency in 1975.

Williams launched his own com-pany, Nashville-based PGA, in 1994with R.E.M., The Connells, Oingo

Boingo and Widespread Panic,among others. Some of the manyacts on his client roster today are

Sister 7, Whiskeytown, CowboyMouth, Del Amitri, Sponge Monkeyand Guster.

Williams is highly thought ofamongst his peers in the businessand that was reflected when he was

named the winner of the 1997 Con-cert Industry Award for ThirdCoast Agent of the Year.

What were your first artistsignings at Paragon?

Chuck Leavell, who was in the

Alex Taylor Band with me, formed

a band called Sea Level. I worked

closely with Chuck, so that was the

first project that I brought in. Alex

was pretty excited about that.

Then I became responsible

agent for a couple of artists really

quickly and those were the Charlie

Daniels Band and the Atlanta

Rhythm Section.

In those days, good money

meant a lot. We didn’t think so

much about career dates because

competition wasn’t so strong. I

don’t think there were enough

choices to really know what the

career dates were unless you were

playing Las Vegas cabarets, which

would obviously be wrong for

rock bands. But I was able to go

out and earn more money for

those acts than whoever was the

responsible agent before, probably

because I didn’t know better.

The managers for both bands

asked me to be responsible for

them and Alex said, “OK, go for it.”

And I just jumped right in.

Then I tried to learn the differ-

ence between what was a good

thing to do and what was a money

thing to do, which has become

somewhat of a philosophy.

When did you leave Paragon?

Paragon was part of Capricorn

Records, so when the demise of

Capricorn came, we fell prey. I

don’t profess to know what hap-

pened at Capricorn but obviously,

they spent more money than

they made.

Right after Capricorn folded, I

started playing the stock market. I

became a stockbroker and did that

for a couple of years. I had a lot of

fun and I was pretty successful.

Did you remain activein the music business?

Yes I did. During that same

time, I was still working with Sea

Level. Then Badfinger was looking

for an agent, so I took them on.

And I had a couple more acts I was

working with.

I was answering phones with

two hands. The left hand was my

booking phone and the right hand

was my securities phone.

When did you returnfull time to the music business?

Ian Copeland had come to work

for us at Paragon in ’77 or ’78. We

became really close friends and

when we saw Paragon folding, we

decided to open an agency to-

gether. He had The Police and all

these punk and new wave bands

and I had the Atlanta Rhythm

Section, Sea Level and some

other stuff.

At the time, I was living in Ma-

con (Georgia). I had actually

priced going to Atlanta and start-

ing a company there for Ian and

myself. Then he went to New York

for a weekend and came back and

said, “It has to be New York;

Atlanta won’t work for what we’re

doing.” I agreed with him but

had no intention of moving to

New York.

Ian went and started FBI and he

took John Huie, who had also been

working at Paragon, with him.

Ian and I were always talking

during this time period. He knew

that I knew how to make and

handle money. He and his accoun-

tant finally convinced me to come

up to New York and he’d give me a

piece of the company, which I

could earn over time. So that’s

when I actually returned to the

music business. That was in the

early ’80s.

What was your role at FBI?

Well, if Ian was the general, I

was his colonel. He was the per-

sonality and I was the mechanic.

He gets along with artists fa-

mously. And I could make all the

dates work. So, he’d go out and

sign the bands and I would run the

agency part of it. That’s just how

it evolved.

Ian was involved with the

booking to some degree, mostly

overseas, but his job was an

overall picture of talent and mine

Progressive Global Agency owner Buck

Williams got his start in the music business

like many do — playing in a band. When his

bandmates realized Williams could add two and

two and actually come back with $10 to give

everybody, the responsibility of booking gigs landed

on his shoulders.

BUCK WILLIAMSp r o g r e s s i v e g l o b a l a g e n c y

Executive Interview s

Page 12 Summer 1998 POLLSTAR

was an overall picture of running

the company.

Everybody had territories but

Ian. So in reality, we all worked

with all the artists and we didn’t

have a strict responsible agent

setup. Everybody could talk to

every manager.

I worked most closely with The

Bangles and after Huie left, I took

over The Go-Go’s. I was also work-

ing with R.E.M. at the time; I took

them very seriously. I also worked

with Thompson Twins, Joan Jett,

General Public, English Beat and

UB40 as general RA.

It was the very early ’80s and at

one point, we had three out of the

top five albums with Joan Jett, Go-

Go’s and The Police. FBI was abso-

lutely the hottest thing around.

Why did you leave FBI?

When the agency merged with

Intertalent and relocated to Los

Angeles, I decided not to go. They

saw a need for me to be in L.A. but

after looking into it, I decided I

couldn’t make it work. And I didn’t

think that the company was going

to make it after I really got into

the books.

After our first financial meeting

with Intertalent, we found out

they didn’t have as much money

in the bank as FBI. So, “Uh-oh!

Flag here!”

Anyway, we ran into all types of

complications out in L.A. It was a

great agency with a great concept;

they just spent more money than

they were making. I commuted out

there every other week for a year.

But I set some criteria to get me

out there permanently and they

couldn’t really meet that criteria.

How did you end upin Nashville?

When the Intertalent deal first

came up, I had suggested that we

start a music division in Nashville.

At that time, we were talking with

a lot of other agents who were also

sort of looking for a home. We

talked to John Huie, who definitely

wanted to be in Nashville and

didn’t know if he wanted to work

with us or CAA. Also, Alex Kochan

was talking with us.

So Huie and I were going to

open an East Coast office for

Intertalent in Nashville. He repre-

sented Amy Grant and knew a

couple people in Nashville, so we

felt like we would have a foot in

the door.

But it wasn’t going to be strictly

a country thing. It was just going

to be an East Coast office located

in Nashville. But that sort of fell

apart. I think egos got in the way

of who’s going to do what, who’s

going to answer to who and all of

that. So Alex fell out. Huie was

tired of waiting and the idea sort

of went away.

I was already ready to come to

Nashville. I’d talked to the

Monterey people and they were

looking for someone to come over

and try to bring some contempo-

rary ideas to their Nashville office.

So I moved to Nashville and

worked with Monterey Artists for

a little while.

Was going out on your ownthe next step?

It wasn’t really the next step. I

had never really intended on being

out on my own. I had intended on

working with Monterey, but that

didn’t work out.

It just happened that I left

and came out on my own. I did

realize, however, that if I was

going to be out on my own, I bet-

ter do it before the R.E.M. tour

rather than after. That was only

common sense.

Is that the only act that stayedwith you consistently?

No. Everything I took into

Monterey I left with. That was

Oingo Boingo, The Connells, The

Specials, Widespread Panic and

R.E.M., of course. There were

about six acts I was working with.

When Ian and I split, we had a

very amicable parting of the ways.

So the things that I had really

strong relationships with, I took,

and he kept the rest. But it really

wasn’t up to Ian and myself as to

who went with who. It was up to

the artists and the managers.

How quickly did yourown agency come together?

It happened in the blink of an

eye. I was not happy in my current

scenario and I just decided that it

had to be. So I made a couple of

phone calls and got a small staff

together. I went to the bank and

got them to give me a letter of

credit and we just went on. It really

was something that I didn’t put an

enormous amount of thought into.

And I always wanted to be a

professional golfer. I figured, “I

can’t be in the real PGA (Profes-

sional Golfers’ Association), so I’ll

own one.” So I picked the PGA

moniker and then figured out

what it was going to mean.

There’s no question I could have

gone to work at some different

agencies. But first of all, I didn’t

fancy moving again. And secondly,

I never really worked for anyone

else since Paragon. When I worked

with Ian, I didn’t really work forIan. He was just the major share-

holder. I worked for myself and we

worked together.

I had already tried the boutique

agency with Monterey and as for

the rest of the major corporations,

I didn’t have any idea that I would

be what they needed. I would have

gone in as a line agent somewhere

and that didn’t suit me too much.

That would burn what little

ego I have so I just started my

own company.

I brought in a couple of agents

right away. I brought in Scott

Clayton who was basically run-

ning part of Cellar Door’s agency

business out of Washington, D.C.,

and I brought in Brian Hill who

had been an assistant at CAA.

Then we hired a couple of people

to do the support and off we went.

Did you start signingother acts right away ordid you just work primarilywith your initial roster?

Initially, we were being very

selective. We consider ourselves

pretty selective right now, too. But

at the time, I didn’t want to bring

in a huge roster with a, quote-

unquote, relatively green staff. So

we just sort of stuck with what we

had early on.

Then in order to keep the agents

happy, you’ve got to give them an

opportunity to branch out and

grow. In our business, the only way

you can really, really grow and

make money is to sign and be re-

sponsible for acts that make a lot

of money.

THE STAFF THAT TEES IT UP everyday at PGA are (L-R) Jason Pitzer, Beth Barnett,Sonata Stanton (seated), Patti Williams, Todd McCord, the Buckaroo himself,Pam Clayton, Scott Clayton and Chris Tanner.

s Executive Interview

POLLSTAR Summer 1998 Page 13

I don’t consider booking a job

that creates revenue. I consider

signing the artist as creating the

revenue. So I’ve given the agents at

PGA the opportunity to go out

and sign what they believe in.

Do you think it’s importantfor an act to have developed itsown fan base regionally beforetaking it to a national level?

I absolutely do. Although, every

now and again, we will sign an act

prematurely just because we be-

lieve in it and we don’t want some-

one else to get it.

Sometimes that’s a mistake be-

cause we are only geared to a cer-

tain level. We can’t keep bands

working in bars on a local basis. I

can’t afford for the agents at PGA

to take the time to do it.

But I really believe in develop-

ing an act regionally. I believe in

playing fraternities and playing

anything you can to spread the

word. Certainly, that’s what Dave

Matthews and Widespread Panic

did. It’s probably what Phish

did, too.

Does that philosophy work wellwith bands that don’t have a lotof radio play or MTV exposure?

Yeah, it does. I don’t even know

what the genre is right now but

you see a lot of acts like Wide-

spread Panic, Phish and Leftover

Salmon that have huge fan bases

without radio and MTV support.

Speaking of radio, I have a big

problem with what I call “airmail,”

which, to me, is simply blackmail.

Radio stations say, “If you don’t

play on my radio show, we will not

play your record. And not only will

I not play your record, but nobody

in my chain is going to play your

record.” That happens every

single day. So I like sticking with

the bands that are not totally

dependent on airplay.

Don’t get me wrong, however. I

love airplay. And I’m a strong ad-

vocate of selling records. It’s just

really important that an artist de-

velops and maintains its own im-

age and integrity. That’s hard to do

just playing radio shows when

you’re one of many acts and only

get a really short set.

Do you have a strongopinion on the value oftouring festivals?

From my standpoint, an artist

can build some credibility from

being associated with festivals, de-

pending on the tour. But in the

long run, I don’t know if they

really build fans for

young artists. But I

do think they build

a much greater

awareness of the

artist in the media.

I think festivals

are a fun thing to

do in the summer.

They are a lot dif-

ferent from playing

the clubs and the-

atres. They make

the artists feel good

and they get to play

on a bigger stage.

But I think it is

important to look

at what you’re going to get out of

the festival. This summer, Wide-

spread Panic is going out and we’re

taking anywhere from one to four

other acts with us in different

markets. We’re not calling it a

festival; it’s Widespread Panic and

their friends.

And we’re not

charging festival

prices, which I

think has been the

biggest error for

festivals right now.

They think people

will pay more to

see more and I re-

ally don’t believe

that. First of all, I

think it’s a pain for

someone to have

to sit there for six

hours, so why have

them pay more

for it?

From an artist’s

standpoint, you’ve

just got to look at

what you’re going

to get out of it and

attack it that way.

If you think you’re

going to play a festival and sell

millions of records afterwards, I

think you’re going to probably be

mistaken and disappointed. But if

you look at them as fun, as a way

of generating generally pretty

good revenue and a way to gener-

ate good press, your association

with a festival can create some re-

ally good things. It’s just a way of

spreading the word more.

But I think you just need to be

careful, particularly with young

artists. Nobody’s going to pay $35

to see the young artist so they, to

some degree, alienate their fans by

participating in a festival. Like on

the H.O.R.D.E. tour last year, the

price was too high for the people

who didn’t want to see Neil Young

but wanted to see Colonel Bruce

Hampton.

What is your opinionon the trend of concert ticketsbeing priced at $75 or higher?

I just think it’s outrageous, but

we’re the ones who are somewhat

setting that. As an agent, I think it’s

outrageous but yet, if an act needs

a half-million dollars, for instance,

well, you’ve got to pay them. So, it’s

sort of like a two-sided sword.

But I really think ticket prices

have gotten way out of line. I think

in the very near future, maybe

even this summer, you’re going to

see a lot of them coming down.

Not all of them; some are still go-

ing up. Particularly the prices for

some of the older artists are going

to continue to climb because they

think they can get it, which they

can. Their demographic is the

yuppie stockbroker-type person

who doesn’t really care; they just

as soon get their tickets from a

broker anyway.

But I’m not happy. I don’t want

to pay that much to see someone.

My kids can’t afford to go see

them. So, I think ticket prices are

way too high for the most part.

And it’s not just the ticket price.

It’s all the add-ons. By the time you

finish with Ticketmaster by tele-

phone, it’s six bucks, then five

bucks for the order per ticket, and

then you’ve got the facility sur-

charges and the parking. You could

add maybe 40 or 50 percent to the

ticket price.

But maybe if the artist was to

participate in those revenues,

maybe those ticket prices and all

these things could come down a

little bit.

CHASING LITTLE WHITE BALLS around in the sand traps areR.E.M’s Mike Mills, manager Bertis Downs, Buck and nowretired R.E.M. drummer Bill Berry.

IT’S EITHER a doctored photo or Buck really did catcha big one.

Executive Interview s

Page 14 Summer 1998 POLLSTAR

Doesn’t that go back tothe issue of everybody wantinga piece of each others’ pie?What is going to happenwhen artists want part of afacilities’ sponsorship revenueand vice versa?

It’ll never end, at this point. It’s

just going to be a vicious circle.

There’s no way to come to terms

with it, certainly not in the near

future. A venue can’t afford to let

an artist in on all of the things that

they need to be in on.

I don’t know when we as agents

and managers let it get out of con-

trol. And from a promoter’s stand-

point, I know how many money

making shows it takes to wipe out

one big loss.

But there are very few artists

that could give a crap what a pro-

moter loses. They only care what a

promoter makes. So, it’s a two-

sided thing. I just don’t see where

it could ever end now. I really

don’t.

What do you think aboutthe overall health of theconcert industry?

I think it’s pretty dodgy. I don’t

know where it’s going right now.

You see all the conglomerates

coming in who could care less

about our business.

I think you’re going to see agen-

cies go two ways, probably. You’re

going to see real small, boutique

agencies, or maybe even indi-

vidual agents going into business

for themselves and handling one

or two acts.

And you will see the mega-

agencies which, in my opinion,

rarely can give the service that an

artist needs, particularly when in

trouble.

People have asked why I won

the Third Coast Agent of the Year

award this year? Well, probably be-

cause I had been nominated so

many times and never got it be-

fore. But the only year I really ever

should have won it, the year I

think I did a better job than any

other agent in the country, was the

year R.E.M. was out and all these

things happened on that tour.

That year, three of the band

members in R.E.M. had surgery

during their tour. I had to work

very closely with those situations

and assure promoters that when

we moved dates, they would be

looked after. Trying to keep every-

body happy in a situation like that

was very, very tough. It was a very

tough year.

My point is, I don’t think R.E.M.

could have gotten that service with

any agent at a larger firm. I know

every other agent would argue

this, obviously, but I really don’t

think they could have gotten that

service from anybody. Of course,

R.E.M. is a labor of love.

The R.E.M. tour was really de-

manding. There were a lot of times

when I had to fly to different parts

of the world to discuss reschedul-

ing shows with R.E.M. and return

quickly with answers for promot-

ers then get back and sit down

with R.E.M. and work things out.

The band members in R.E.M.

are very involved with their tour-

ing career. Quite frankly, that

keeps it really fun, too, because

they come up with some quirky

questions. And they are really

great people and fun to be around.

What is your outlook on thefuture of the concert business?

I see a lot of major changes but I

don’t know what they’re going to

be. But I know that we’re not going

to stay right where we are.

I think from an agency stand-

point, you’re going to see some

changes made. I don’t know

whether big agencies are going to

consume little ones or if you’re go-

ing to see people splintering off

and doing their own thing or both.

I mean, already you’ve seen

some pretty major changes in the

agency business from seven or

eight years ago. Look how things

have changed just since 1990.

Monterey was a small one-office

company and now, they have three

offices and I don’t know how many

acts. And CAA came to Nashville

four years ago and now they virtu-

ally own the town.

I think you’re going to see a lot

of agencies down-sizing. And, like

I said, it’s got to go one way or an-

other. How long can some of these

big agencies keep a music depart-

ment? They’ve got to be losing

millions.

So, is the size of PGA’s rosterclose to ideal for you?

It’s not the number of artists

you have, it’s how many you have

working at one time. That’s really

the important ratio.

I think we’ve got about 38 artists

now on the roster, and there’s basi-

cally three agents and myself right

now. But I’m going to lose one

agent. Todd McCord is going back

to graduate school and I’m not go-

ing to replace him.

If an agent feels comfortable

working about four acts at one

time, that’s a pretty good load if

he’s really doing a good job.

If you get much bigger than

that, you can’t give the kind of ser-

vice I want. Everybody’s going to

claim that they can take care of

more tours than that, but if you

check with some of the tour man-

agers and tour accountants out

there, you see how many artists are

really getting taken care of by their

agents.

Scott Clayton is basically in

charge of booking at PGA and

does a fantastic job. He’s built him-

self up to be a really great agent in

the four years he’s been here. I am

really excited to see his growth.

Also, I’m really excited about hav-

ing Chris Tanner join us.

I oversee the majority of

the booking slips and I read

the reports everyday. I look at

every single booking slip on

Whiskeytown that comes in and I

ask a lot of questions about the

ticket price and this, that and the

other. But Scott does a really good

job and he should take some credit

when they talk about me as the

Third Coast Agent of the Year.

Last year, I was probably less

active in booking than I’d been in

my life, so Scott, Chris and Todd

are the ones that should really get

the credit. But of course, I’m the

point person for Widespread

Panic, The Connells and do R.E.M.

pretty much by myself. I just hap-

pen to own this joint. *

HANGIN’ BACKSTAGE during the last R.E.M. tour are (L-R seated) Stephen Baker fromWarner Bros., PGA pro Davis Love III and manager Bertis Downs. (Standing) ScottLitt from Outpost Records, Mike Mills, Bill Berry, Buck, Outpost’s Mark Williams andWarner’s Dave Dannheisser.