Accessing Art for Working Class Women.

How accessible are the arts to women with working class backgrounds? What are the barriers faced by the women

who do?

Alarna Lawley. ID: 17126925

Birmingham City University, BA Art and Design.

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Introduction: This essay discusses the accessibility of a career and interest in contemporary art for working class women. I will explore education policies, the finances needed for an arts career, some contemporary arts institutions, as well as a lack of working-class females being represented in the field. I am particularly referring to examining the proportion of working-class women in relation to other groups as well as the value that is placed on the few that there are. While also looking into and analysing how these areas and fields are made accessible for working class women, I will focus on the barriers that they face in working in the art world. The need for this essay comes from a gap in the exploration of the access to the arts specifically for working class women. It is clear that this is an area that needs more attention as “the proportion of young cultural workers from upper-middle class backgrounds more than doubled between 1981 and 2011, from 15% to 33%. The proportion from working class origins dropped by about a third, from 22% to 13% over the same period” (See, O’Brian & Co. 2018, page 17). There is a perceived and real imbalance of working-class people in comparison to upper-middle class people in contemporary creative industries. Combining this with the knowledge that “almost every occupational sector has an underrepresentation of women in its workforce” (see, O’Brian & Co. 2018, page 13). This indicates that there is an imbalance in both gender and socioeconomic status at play here. Throughout this essay I will refer to some facts and statistics in relation to some primary research interviews I have also conducted. The aim being to analyse why it is so difficult to access the arts if you are a working-class woman and investigative issues around taste, culture and attitude differences as well as arts instructions, education policy and finances. Through these specific areas, I will develop an in-depth enquiry into specific barriers women in creative industries face, uncovering issues of gender inequalities and consistent class under-representation in the field of contemporary art. Finances: A recent article in British GQ, a men’s monthly issue magazine based in New York, points out just how much money there is in the arts and how little amount of people there are with working class backgrounds who have access to it. The article states that “over 96 per cent of jobs in London’s creative economy – which generates £47 billion per year to the capital’s overall economy – are held by people from advantaged socio-economic groups, compared to 73.8 per cent outside the creative economy” (Halls 2018). The statistic highlights that working-class people are not seeking jobs in the arts in London, which is the UK’s art capital. The reason for this could be simple: to make art you need money to support yourself and to train in the field. In order to be creative, in order to take risks, in order to make art, and certainly in order to be successful, you need time—and in order to have time you need

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money. We already know that young working-class people who are at the stage of life where they are looking at employment do not have the money to spend time on art. The need to make money quickly weighs on them as is evident in a quote from Ofsted chief Amanda Spielman in a BBC article in which she states, “academic subjects were the best route to higher-level study, particularly for working-class children” (Spielman 2018). This further suggests the view that academic subjects are promoted over creative subjects for working class pupils. In order to survive, young working-class women need to make money as soon as they are eligible to do so and journeying into the creative industry does not do that for them. Further evidence of this comes from another British GQ article, this one about artist Laura Footes, in which it is explained how she planned on becoming a lawyer rather than an artist. In the article she explains that she “felt obliged by my socio-economic situation to focus on a subject that would give me employment and somewhere concrete.” (Footes 2018) This further emphasises that working-class young adults see a flexible job in the arts as unrealistic. A career in the arts often means a career of flexible work. This is simply unrealistic for a working-class woman, as they do not have the financial privilege to not have secure work and a secure pay check. To add to this further, Amanda Spielman, noted above, has said that “arts and media does stand out as the area where there is greatest mismatch between the numbers of students taking the courses and the employment prospects at the end.” (Attfield 2018). This shows just how difficult a job in arts can be for anyone but practically impossible for working class women. Women with middle/ upper class backgrounds working as artists have a financial blanket that can help them through times where their career is the lower end of the stability scale and working-class women do not have that privilege.

'Women In America Earn Only 2/3 Of What Men Do' (1985) by Guerrilla Girls

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These points were historically explored in the work of the Guerrilla Girls, a group of female artists working anonymously against discrimination in the art world. More specifically they aim at cases of racism and sexism in the industry. One work you can particularly look into in relation to this argument of a career in the arts being unaccusable for working class women would be and financial ability would be, ‘Women In America Earn Only 2/3 of What Men Do’ (Guerrilla Girls, 1985), and we may want to ask just what has changed since the 1980s. The piece shows just how financially disadvantaged women artists are in comparison to men—and the broader socioeconomic concerns around pay inequalities and gender—and though it does not compare social classes it does indicate serious issues in the art world. Not only does this piece suggest the difficult times a working-class women seeking a contemporary arts career might face but it also suggests that throughout their whole career they will continue to be at a disadvantage. Education: Education and policies surrounding it is another factor contributing to access to the arts for women from working-class backgrounds. As previously stated, Ofsted encourages and rewards schools pushing academic subjects over creative ones particularly for working class pupils. Patrick Brill is an advocate for the opposite, to the extent that he makes it clear he believes creative subjects should be encouraged a lot more then they currently are. It is arguably made the clearest in his work, “All Schools Should Be Art Schools” (Brill 2017), as shown below. Contrary to the view that working-class children should be pushed into academic over creative subjects, Brill believes to get the best results creative and academic subjects should run parallel to one another.

‘All Schools Should Be Art Schools’ (2017) by Bob and Roberta Smith.

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Throughout all of his work, produced under the name Bob and Roberta Smith, Brill stresses the importance of an art education. In one video interview he says, “we think art is nice to have, a luxury for a few people and we think maths and science are really important. They are all really important and they interlink and talk to each other.” (Brill 2015). In this statement Brill emphasises the need for the arts to be accessible to everybody. Later in the video he also stresses the importance of the arts by underlining that everything that is made has been designed and the idea that things need to be designed is often over looked. He further highlights this in an interview for The Guardian when he agrees with the interviewer Sean O’Hagan that “art education is now threatened, not just by government cuts but by an unspoken ideology that suggests art is not really important to a nation’s economic and social wellbeing” (O’Hagan 2015). Answering yes, Brill goes on to explain his frustration saying, “I want us to re-engage with that post war consensus that we need to expand creativity and who gets involved in it. The Tories think that silly notion is history now. Politicians don’t seem to even understand the basic importance of something like design and how it underpins production” (Brill 2015). Publicly and without remorse, Brill is challenging this problematic view of the arts and expressing the need for some form of modification. By sharing this view Brill is unapologetically challenging the contemporary arts and calling for change. He is challenging ideas of access for working class people and women in particular because he is emphasising the lack of push of the arts to these people. Not only this but he is also publicly challenging government policies and cuts in education for not doing enough to make the arts accessible to all. Evidence of just how much arts education is undervalued in government policy is clear when you consider how the “national curriculum requirements mean that every local authority maintained secondary school must teach art and design, D&T and music at KS3 and offer at least one arts subject and D&T at KS4. However, 61% of secondary schools are academies and are therefore not bound by this requirement” (NASUWT, 2017, p. 10). This is evident that although it may seem art and design subjects are being enforced that a lot of schools are not being held to this. We know that many schools are not committed to arts subjects as “many schools are experiencing budget cuts and are choosing to cut art classes and programs from their school to account for the loss of money” (Chavis, 2016). It is also important to note here the substantial evidence that there are more women applying for arts higher education courses than there are men. As told to us by First Hundred Years, an online project dedicated to women’s rights, particularly in the law profession powered by charity Spark21. In one article the website states ‘Women, on the other hand, particularly dominate in subjects allied to Medicine, Education, Art and Design’ (First 100 Years, 2017). Although, this just speaks to the disadvantage women face when you look at the number of successful women in arts careers compared to that of men. Taste:

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Culture and taste determine the attitude one may have about something else. This is a significant barrier that working class women face when attempting to access the arts and the need to challenge this is urgent. One online essay written by a working-class female artist gives insight into how taste and culture differences cause working class women to see the arts as exclusive. In a blog post shared to WordPress she states, “It may be a vicious circle – working-class people see art as not for them, and so they don’t become artists.” (Attfield 2016). She explains how the experience, as a working-class woman accessing the arts, made her realise how far it was from her world. She explains, “Very rarely did I come across a work that represented me, or the people I knew” (Attfield 2016). Elaborating further she says, “There were the classic paintings and sculptures of rich and important people, still life scenes of opulent objects and interiors, and contemporary figurative art that showed people I didn’t know in fancy looking homes or lounging about doing nothing and looking mysterious (sometimes in the nude)” (Attfield 2016). Attfield is sharing a concern that working class people, particularly women, are extremely underrepresented in the arts. As a knock-on effect, they do not see themselves as part of this world, both historically and contemporary, and it further accentuates the idea that art is for a more elite audience. To explore this idea further I conducted interviews with women from working class backgrounds to try to better understand the way they comprehend the arts. These interviews, although selective, form part of the methodology of this essay, relying as they do on first-hand experiences. To begin, I interviewed a female primary school teacher with a working-class upbringing. When asked if having more of a working-class background represented in arts would make her feel more comfortable in a gallery she said, ‘Yes, I probably would be more comfortable. I would happily go to an art gallery and wander around on my own but I wouldn’t go to an event which meant I would have to interact with the people because I know that I wouldn’t feel comfortable interacting with people in the art gallery’ (See, appendix 2). This shows me that she would be comfortable interacting with the art world from afar as long as it stays at arm’s length but uncomfortable with the idea of being an active participant in it. The interviewee further explained, ‘I wouldn’t know any of the terminology to use, I wouldn’t know anything to comment on, I wouldn’t know what makes good art’ (See, appendix 2). Later in the interview when asked if she believed this to be typical of working-class people, she stresses that it is the background and upbringing saying, ‘I wasn’t exposed to it so I wouldn’t know the terminology, that wouldn’t have been taught to me’ (See, appendix 2). This shows, in part, that the art world presents its self as being of a higher standard to what working class women are used to and so they view it as not accessible to them. Furthermore, what this interview has brought to the argument is the idea that working class women lose the desire for it to be accessible to them because they have no interest in being a part of it.

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Undoubtedly there is an issue here with the way working class women perceive the arts as not being accepting of them, but now the question would be what is being done to reverse this? Greyson Perry is an artist with a working-class background and who very much uses that to inform his work, such as his well-known tapestry series. To which he commented “good taste is that of which is approved of by your friends, your family, your community that are around you” and “you may have very different taste from people from different parts of the country and in different social and economic groups but that does not mean they are bad taste, they are just different” (Perry 2012), both of which he alleged in his TV series about the work. Critically this comment is too obvious to really have any purpose beyond a broad one as such, but in making the comment Perry does points to the challenges in the way people view working class taste as inferior. In Bourdieu: The Next Generation, a collection of essays on taste and culture, it is pointed out once again how the taste of the working class is undervalued. The book has multiple takes on Pierre Bourdieu’s social theories and concepts and pertains them to life today. Lisa McKenzie does this by applying Bourdieu’s theories of class inequality to a council estate in Nottingham where she interviews and focuses on the working-class women there. In her chapter McKenzie points out just how poorly the working-class taste is perceived, particularly when she explains how one woman on the estate “had been followed around the shops being mistaken for a shoplifter. She thought this was because of the way she looked and dressed: ‘too much gold, tracksuit and trainers’” (McKenzie 2015). This unmistakably shows how the difference in culture and taste have had a detrimental effect on how working-class women are perceived and treated. To elaborate, “cultural practices, tastes and likes were not arbitrary; they had meaning, but they were also judged” (McKenzie 2015). Laura Footes, an artist, is an example of how Greyson Perry highlights the effects that views on taste and culture in relation to class and gender can have. Footes is a working female artist who comes from a working-class Birmingham background, she explains in a British GQ article how she altered her voice from her Birmingham accent “to sound more professional” she elaborates saying, “so people didn’t think I was stupid. Otherwise they just switch off. No one would know I came from a working-class background” (Footes 2018). This is a pertinent critique of the art world and particularly the idea of valuing different taste that Perry so easily sugar coats in his statement. Taking into account everything covered here, it is clear that there is a huge issue playing part. Working class women seeing the arts as ‘not for them’ and people seeing working class women as ‘not for’ the arts. Institutions: For the working-class women who do brave facing the challenge of accessing the arts, they will likely be accessing this through institutions such as an art school. This is likely because

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to progress in the arts it is most expected that higher education is in order. Within this section I will be addressing how universities can become overwhelming barriers to working class women trying to access the arts. In one podcast, The Sociological Review, three women from working class background speak of their experiences at university one of them saying “I felt completely alien” (Lewis, Daniels and Lacey, 2019). This podcast was referring to universities as a whole and not specifically art schools or art courses at university. Though three unrelated women were at three different universities doing three separate courses, with the only parallels being their class background and their gender. This indicated that the similar experiences these women had were due to their background and gender and other working-class women at university is likely to experience the same thing. The whole podcast brought attention to how they were made to feel like university wasn’t for them and their struggles throughout. With one of the women even saying, “I have never had these conversations before, the politics and the social felt alien to my life.” When talking about interacting with others at universities. Another woman agreed with her adding, “They weren’t part of my life they weren’t real life to me” “because they weren’t reflective of my experience in life”. This particular part of the podcast highlights how working-class women are made to feel unwelcome and as if they shouldn’t be at these universities. (Lewis, Daniels and Lacey, 2019). Through the podcast it also highlights the physical barriers that university poses for working class women when they go on to speak of “the material need” (Lewis, Daniels and Lacey, 2019). At this point in the conversation the women emphasised how they were at a disadvantage to other students as they had to work while studying; “paid work had to run alongside my study there was no option I had to do at least 30 hours a week in order to survive” (Lewis, Daniels and Lacey, 2019). This put huge amounts of pressure on the working-class students as they have less time to put into their studies. As well as this for working class students it isn’t even an option, they have no chose but to do this, which returns us to my earlier point regarding the importance of secure finances. To look more specifically at working class women in art schools, I have conducted an informal interview with a current female art student who is also of working-class background. For the sake of this discussion she will be referred to as Candidate A. This woman echoed the experience of the women in The Sociological Review podcast, stating “I come from Dudley and it was never a necessity to speak with such intelligence” (See, appendix 1). Similarly, this student explains feeling like an outsider at university and that university doesn’t reflect her actual life or the people in it. She goes on to explain how the way in which things are communicated at university itself highlights how different she is from the world of art school. By this I mean majority of university students and lecturers are from middle/ upper class backgrounds and it is easy for someone from a working-class background to stand out. She explains, “I was given feedback

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that, ‘your work is more sophisticated, than your vocabulary and ability to explain it’” (See, appendix 1). This comment made real the difference people see in her and that she sees in herself because of this class difference. Elaborating she goes on to say, “the reason I can’t explain what I do. It’s because they explain it in a way to me every time that I don’t understand. Using really sophisticated art terms” (See, appendix 1). Clearly there is a communication barrier of sorts here, with both parties struggling to converse in a way the other is typically used to. By barrier I do not mean that they cannot understand and therefore cannon communicate effectively. More so I mean there is a self-consciousness happening when these conversation are happening that are negatively affecting working class women. Conclusion: To conclude, this essay has discussed and analysed research around the accessibility of the arts for women with working class backgrounds. In doing so I have come to the conclusion that the arts are inaccessible for working class women in multiple ways. For instance, extensive research has shown that personal taste is hugely determined by a person’s class. This research stems from Pierre Bourdieu’s concepts and pinpoints how class and taste work together and how class determines taste. Further research also showed that a person taste effects the way that they are viewed by others and this can be damaging in the way that value is then placed on them. Essentially this is a barrier for working class women personally seeking out a career in the arts as well as the view that people in that career may view a working-class woman. There are also barriers for working-class women accessing a career in the arts in education, there are aspect of the current education system that effect working class women that women from upper classes do not experience. An example of this would be the push of academic subjects over creative ones in schools and in the national curriculum. Also, with the revelation that these academic subjects are viewed to be even more valuable for working class students. Not only this but also exposing the budget cuts faced by schools and the cutting of arts curricular because of that. I have also focused on how education could be the way to tackle the lack of working-class women in the arts through exploring Patrick Brill and his work. Another barrier faced by working-class women identified and explored throughout is institutions, mainly focusing on universities. Exploring this has identified issues of working-class women having negative experience at universities sole based on their class backgrounds. I have done this through examples of working-class women feeling like they do not belong and so are less likely to succeed, specifically in the arts. I have highlighted how these experiences effect the self-confidence and ability of the women and how universities can be barrier rather than their intended path way into a career in the arts.

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Further research into this topic could go into the direction of the institutions working class women accessing the arts would be coming into contact with after university. Such as contemporary galleries making work or career prospects more accessible for working class women or the huge issues of sexual harassment against women within the industry. Essentially, through this essay I have identified that taste, lack of financial privilege, the current education system and higher education systems all contribute to the view that the arts are not for working class women. This opinion is reinforced by working class women themselves, by professionals in the arts, by established French philosophers and by huge players in the education system. All of which means that the arts and arts careers seemingly became too far out of reach for working class women aiming to access the arts and all work to be barriers faced by women who do. Word Count: 4,002

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References: Attfield. S (2016) Art for Whose Sake? Working Class Life in Visual Art. Available at: https://workingclassstudies.wordpress.com/2016/04/25/art-for-whose-sake-working-class-life-in-visual-art/ [Accessed 18 September]. Brill. P (2017) All Schools Should Be Art Schools. [Household paint on wood] Yorkshire: Yorkshire Sculpture Park. [Accessed 23 October]. Chavis, C. (2016). Why art classes should be cut. [online] Medium. Available at: https://medium.com/@calcha57/why-art-classes-should-be-cut-479dc8ed6f56 [Accessed 13 Dec. 2019]. First 100 Years. (2017). The gender gap in university admissions and beyond. [online] Available at: https://first100years.org.uk/the-gender-gap-in-university-admissions-and-beyond/ [Accessed 4 Jan. 2020]. Guerrilla Girls. (1985). Women In America Earn Only 2/3 Of What Men Do. [Screen-print on paper] Tate. Available at: https://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/guerrilla-girls-women-in-america-earn-only-2-3-of-what-men-do-p78814 Halls, E. (2018) When Will We Give Working Class Creatives the Support they Deserve? Available at: https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/working-class-creatives [Accessed 30 October]. Jeffreys. B (2018) Creative Subjects Being Squeezed, Schools Tell BBC. Available at: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-42862996 [Accessed 23 October]. Lewis. C, Daniels. R and Lacey. S. (2019) Navigating Higher Education as Working-Class Women. [podcast] The Sociological Review. Available at: https://thesociologicalreview.libsyn.com/navigating-higher-education-as-working-class-women [Accessed 15 June]. NASUWT. (2017). Creativity and the arts in the curriculum. [online] Available at: https://www.nasuwt.org.uk/uploads/assets/uploaded/3535be2c-801c-46cb-b4410810472b52a3.pdf [Accessed 17 Nov. 2019]. O’Brien, D. Brook, O. and Taylor, M. (2018) Panic! Social Class, Taste and Inequalities in the Creative Industries. [pdf] Britain: Create London and Arts Emergency. Available at: https://createlondon.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Panic-Social-Class-Taste-and-Inequalities-in-the-Creative-Industries1.pdf [Accessed 1 November].

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O’Hagan. S. and Brill. P. (2015) Bob and Roberta Smith: Soon there won’t be any kids with estuary accents in art schools. Available at: https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/aug/23/bob-and-roberta-smith-arts-education-yorkshire-sculpture-park [Accessed 30 October]. Perry. G (2012) All In The Best Possible Taste With Greyson Perry. (2012). [TV Series] Directed by N. Crombie. Channel 4. [Accessed 26 October]. Royal Academy of Arts (2015). Bob and Roberta Smith RA: Art is your Human Right. [video] Available at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RQONJaGqdg [Accessed 6 Nov. 2019]. Thatcher. J, Ingram. N, Burke. C, and Abrahams. J (2015) Bourdieu: The Next Generation. [pdf] Britain: Routledge. Available at: https://ebookcentral.proquest.com/lib/bcu/detail.action?docID=4218354 [Accessed 27 October] pp. 25-36. The Big Draw (2015). Why We Teach Art In Schools. [video] Available at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYXf4cbwBGE [Accessed 6 Nov. 2019].

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Appendix: Appendix 1: Casual interview conducted with a female fine art student with a working-class background currently studying at a university art school. Interview conducted on 31 October 2019. Candidate A: ‘Like, I’m sat there in group crits and I get spoken to with terms that I’m not familiar with. Then the rest of the group simplify it for me, like I spoke to many of the students and they came from a private school background. I come from Dudley and it wasn’t never a necessity to speak with such intelligence. I was given feedback that, ‘your work is more sophisticated, than your vocabulary and ability to explain it’ xx’ Candidate A: ‘But I felt like, I’d explained it in a way that everyone on all levels can understand? Xx’ Candidate A: ‘Amazing topic tho hun, do it for the girls that aren’t as stupid as the rest of these ‘fine artists’ make us out to be because we don’t speak like them xxxx’ Interviewer: ‘Thank you so much! & wow someone really gave you that feedback!? That’s shocked me! Xxx’ Interviewer: ‘But I completely get where you’re coming from! People speak to me with terms and references things that they just assume I know about or are familiar with but I have no idea! Xxx’ Interviewer: ‘Also it feels like uni and art and all that is to do with it is completely separate from my life at home with my family and friends! It’s like another world completely! Xxx’ Candidate A: ‘I genuinely had that feedback, the reason I can’t explain what I do. It’s because they explain it in a way to me every time that I don’t understand. Using really sophisticated art terms, I’ve booked a pastoral meeting to speak how I feel. There is a lack of support within the fine art department, I feel because they are practicing artists. They’re all over the place, uni is a separate thing. Like how I speak of my work to the people around me they understand! Then I speak to the art group and they look like I’m some dumb shit xxx’ Interviewer: ‘Wow I can’t believe they would say that! Its great that you’re going to someone to talk about it too! And I completely relate to you on all of what you’ve said so if you ever want to talk about it ‘.m happy to obligate!! Xxx’

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Candidate A: ‘Aww thank you! It’s nice to hear that someone else feels the way I do. You’ve made me feel an awful lot better, then sat there feeling like I don’t belong xxx’ Appendix 2: Casual interview conducted with a female primary school teacher who comes from a working-class background. Interview conducted on: 13 December 2019. Interviewer: Would you feel comfortable going into an art gallery? What is it that makes you feel this way? Candidate B: ‘Yes, I have a family member that also enjoys art, it means that often I get taken along to different art events. Through living away and being a uni I’m quite out going and happy to do things like that and explore new things.’ Interviewer: Would you go on your own or would it only be when you’re invited?’ Candidate B: ‘I would probably be invited, I wouldn’t go off my own back. If there was something that interested me, I would go on my own but its not my hobby really.’ Interviewer: It is often said that working-class people have less culture and taste, would you disagree or agree with this statement? Candidate B: ‘I wouldn’t say less culture and taste just different culture and taste.’ Interviewer: Why do you believe in this statement? Candidate B: ‘I would say middle and upper-class people have more money which means that their taste will be different because it will cost more, if I want gold trimming around my room, I’ve got to be able to afford that and I’m not going to on a working-class wage.’ Interviewer: Who are the people typically depicted in art that you see? Are they working class, middle class or upper class? Candidate B: ‘Middle and upper most, yeah.’

Interviewer: Why do you think that is?

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Candidate B: ‘It takes a long time to get into the art industry so you need to either come from a family with a lot of money and so can support you while you wait to study for art and things like that or alternatively already have money, so middle and upper class you’re looking at there.’

Interviewer: Do you think there is enough representation of working-class people in art and in galleries? Candidate B: ‘Probably needs to be more but perhaps art needs to more accessible for working class in order for them to be better represented.’ Interviewer: How does this effect your comfort levels in going into the gallery spaces? Would you be more comfortable if there were more? Candidate B: ‘Yes, I probably would be more comfortable. I would happily go to an art gallery and wonder around on my own but I would go to an event which meant I would have to interact with the people because I know that I wouldn’t feel comfortable interacting with people in the art gallery.’ Interviewer: Do you think that is because of having fear of lack of knowledge? Candidate B: ‘I wouldn’t know any of the terminology to use I wouldn’t know anything to comment on, I wouldn’t know what makes good art.’ Interviewer: And do you think that is typical of someone of working-class background? Candidate B: ‘Yeah, because I wasn’t exposed to it so I wouldn’t know the terminology, that wouldn’t have been taught to me.’ Interviewer: Do you think there is enough creative subjects in the national curriculum? Candidate B: ‘The subjects that there are, are fine, but them it’s how schools make them creative, so turn a geography lesion creative. Otherwise, if you just teach a lesson for what they are, a geography lesson and a history lesson then no, there is not enough creativity. However, if you’re in a school that allows you to adapt your lessons and ask the children to present in creative ways or explore it in creative ways, as a cross curricular activity then yeah there can be enough creative opportunities.’ Interviewer: Do you think that’s based on the teacher in hand and there is not enough push from the government?

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Candidate B: ‘There is not enough push from the government no not at all, they just say these are the areas of art that should be taught, these are the areas of geography that should be taught and then it is up to the school, their [policies and the teacher how much they drive that creativity. What hierocracy they put it in. and if they decide to generate cross curricular activates.’ Interviewer: Do you think it is important to have those two things together or do you think art should be separate, maths should be separate, geography should be separate. Candidate B: ‘I think its good to have them together, is you consider art to be; as long as you’re being creative, not just painting just creatively working. It has been proven that if children are engaged and having fun and enjoying themselves, they learn more. Its proven how much children enjoy being creative so if you match creativeness with their teaching of academic, like geography, history, maths whatever. Naturally they will learn more because you’re allowing them so they work hand in hand.’ Interviewer: Do you think art and the arts are currently interrogated enough into education? Candidate B: ‘There could be more of a push from the government to persuade more of a push on art. If government changed their policy it would be mean that schools had to follow, whereas at the moment it’s down to here is the document that says here are the different things and it up to you how you apply them and teach them in the schools. But if the government altered their policies to say, teach them like this.’

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