(1) snakebite preventions for jungle hiking and camping

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Snakebite Preventions for Jungle Hiking and Camping June 3, 2015 at 1:42pm I love the jungle activities but I'm so scared of snake!!! The statement above was one of the most common statements from my course students. In fact, the extremely strong emphasis of a student's fear towards snakes urged me to write this article. But now I am sharing it with you all to say thanks for the supports you all have given to Jungle Training School Malaysia. The fact is, well... I'm scared of snakes too. Actually, very scared I'm clinically proven as a herpetophobic person. I get a full swing panic attack when I encounter a snake in close proximity without a thick bulletproof glass between us. However, let's not slither around that fact and move on to the issue at hand. My response to this sort of statement is.... YES! Of course, the jungle is a habitat for snakes and of course, almost all hikers who hike in the jungle would hate getting a snakebite. A snake is really no danger a snakebite is! The simple reality about snakes in jungle hiking is not due to the fact that it will ‘pow’ your lunch money or make a hobby of trolling you until you soil your pants. The real FEAR for snakes is the risk of snake bite injury or worse death. Venomous snakes are just legless animals that make me scream in sissyness like a trumpet gone off tune but a snakebite will make me a dead man. So we should learn prevent snakebites, not make snakes go extinct. The hard reality to accept is, its almost never the snake's fault if we get a snakebite during jungle hiking. Jungle is their place, their home. We should expect them. So we must prepare well for a snake encounter and get away safely. This is true to any wild animals in the jungle. In general rule, consider "All snakes as venomous and DO NOT try to approach". Regardless, even if the unidentified snake is putting on lipstick and flirting with you, do not approach. Take another route. If u want a picture of it, use 200mm telephoto zoom lens or something longer, without flash. Do NOT take a selfie with snakes in the wild. There's no need to handle a snake in the wild while trying to prove to your pals that the serpent is definitely a male or female. Respect for wild life and reasonable fear for safety should come to play here. Before anything specific, below are some facts to consider if snakes & their bites are keeping you in front of your telly rather than the jungle; (Warning! This is a long post, intended to share with fellow enthusiasts in recreation safety. Jungle experts may stop here) MALAYSIAN JUNGLE'S SNAKY FACTS 1. Snakes hate you too they don't want to see you or get to know you or take a selfie with you, 2. Snakes prefer to disappear than bite I'm not kidding, most of them do skedaddle when they feel your vibes, 3. Most of the venomous snakes are nocturnal They prefer going out cari makan & do their 9 to 6 business when you're already in camp, 4. Only about 12% land snake species here are venomous That's only about 16 species with the juice to harm you, 5. Only about 6 venomous land snakes species that has bitten people here This is turning into very good odds, don't you think? 6. Venomous land snakes species don't like to waste their venom on you Venom is their cari makan lah, people. They need to use it to find food; so many first bites are actually dry bites. 7. Most Venomous land snakes species bites are NOT fatal Between 19651971 (a lot more snakes back then!), 28 hospitals in Malaysia reported only 7 fatalities from 1280 snakebite cases from venomous land snakes (Research paper by Sawai et al., 1972)

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Page 1: (1) Snakebite Preventions for Jungle Hiking and Camping

15/6/2015 (1) Snakebite Preventions for Jungle Hiking and Camping

https://www.facebook.com/notes/1656097514627917/ 1/8

Snakebite Preventions for Jungle Hiking andCampingJune 3, 2015 at 1:42pm

I love the jungle activities but I'm so scared of snake!!!

The statement above was one of the most common statements from my course students.In fact, the extremely strong emphasis of a student's fear towards snakes urged me to writethis article. But now I am sharing it with you all to say thanks for the supports you all havegiven to Jungle Training School Malaysia. The fact is, well... I'm scared of snakes too.Actually, very scared ­ I'm clinically proven as a herpetophobic person. I get a full swingpanic attack when I encounter a snake in close proximity without a thick bulletproof glassbetween us. However, let's not slither around that fact and move on to the issue at hand. My response to this sort of statement is.... YES! Of course, the jungle is a habitat for snakesand of course, almost all hikers who hike in the jungle would hate getting a snakebite. Asnake is really no danger ­ a snakebite is! The simple reality about snakes in jungle hiking isnot due to the fact that it will ‘pow’ your lunch money or make a hobby of trolling you untilyou soil your pants. The real FEAR for snakes is the risk of snake bite injury or worse ­death. Venomous snakes are just legless animals that make me scream in sissyness like atrumpet gone off tune but a snakebite will make me a dead man. So we should learnprevent snakebites, not make snakes go extinct. The hard reality to accept is, its almost never the snake's fault if we get a snakebite duringjungle hiking. Jungle is their place, their home. We should expect them. So we mustprepare well for a snake encounter and get away safely. This is true to any wild animals inthe jungle. In general rule, consider "All snakes as venomous and DO NOT try to approach".Regardless, even if the unidentified snake is putting on lipstick and flirting with you, do notapproach. Take another route. If u want a picture of it, use 200mm telephoto zoom lens orsomething longer, without flash. Do NOT take a selfie with snakes in the wild. There's noneed to handle a snake in the wild while trying to prove to your pals that the serpent isdefinitely a male or female. Respect for wild life and reasonable fear for safety should cometo play here. Before anything specific, below are some facts to consider if snakes & their bites arekeeping you in front of your telly rather than the jungle; (Warning! This is a long post, intended to share with fellow enthusiasts in recreation safety.Jungle experts may stop here) MALAYSIAN JUNGLE'S SNAKY FACTS

1. Snakes hate you too ­ they don't want to see you or get to know you or take a selfiewith you,

2. Snakes prefer to disappear than bite ­ I'm not kidding, most of them do skedaddlewhen they feel your vibes,

3. Most of the venomous snakes are nocturnal ­ They prefer going out cari makan &do their 9 to 6 business when you're already in camp,

4. Only about 12% land snake species here are venomous ­ That's only about 16species with the juice to harm you,

5. Only about 6 venomous land snakes species that has bitten people here ­ Thisis turning into very good odds, don't you think?

6. Venomous land snakes species don't like to waste their venom on you ­ Venomis their cari makan lah, people. They need to use it to find food; so many first bites areactually dry bites.

7. Most Venomous land snakes species bites are NOT fatal ­ Between 1965­1971 (alot more snakes back then!), 28 hospitals in Malaysia reported only 7 fatalities from1280 snakebite cases from venomous land snakes (Research paper by Sawai et al.,1972)

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15/6/2015 (1) Snakebite Preventions for Jungle Hiking and Camping

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So, the odds doesn’t seem bad at all. But any odds when gambled enough, we may getunlucky. As a Campmaster and a Professional Outdoor Instructor, I don’t rely on luck for mystudents' and campers' safety. ABOUT SNAKEBITES FIRST AIDBefore you go any further, I would like to apologize to those who read up to here just toknow what i have to say in Snakebite's First Aid. Although I am medically trained and havetrained many people in Wilderness Emergency Medicine, I am not allowed to give outhaphazard diy­surefire­first­aid­tips­in­Facebook here. Many times, internet information wasmisunderstood/poorly executed by the reader that leads to death because they think byreading tips can substitute for a proper training. I do think internet is a good way to shareknowledge but not for an important skill like first aid. Get training, get practical or simulatedexperience and get certified from proper qualified instructors to protect yourselves – butdon’t ask me as I don’t do First Aid classes anymore. I write to share something more important than first­aid. Something most outdoorinstructors do not mention at all when conducting outdoors training. I want to share aboutsnakebite prevention. Why? Because prevention is A LOT better than cure. Furthermore, Iam to share some proven, systematic prevention from my own course syllabus at JungleTraining School Malaysia. In my camping, bushcraft or survival courses during safetymodules, I always mention that first step in prevention is always to understand the hazards.In the current hissing subject, this means getting to know the venomous snakes Imentioned above­ specifically the 6 dangerous land snakes in Malaysia. After theintroduction to the hazards, I’ll share about what we can do to prevent their bites from thehiker & camper’s point of view. THE USUAL SUSPECTSFrom statistics, these 6 species are responsible to almost all land snakes’ venomous bitesin Malaysia. They are all also very able to deliver a fatal venom dose in a single bite;

Biggest NOPE in the world ­ King Cobra.(Pic Credit Wikipedia)

King cobra / Ular Tedung Selar (Species; Ophiophagus Hannah)Common places: Around watering places in highland forests & bamboo forestsFood : Smaller snakesVenom Type & Effects : Neurotoxin (Paralyse all muscles)Description –Largest venomous snake in the world and most feared but this snake does not cause manyinjuries as they are very shy and most bites are suffered by snake charmers who activelyseek to catch them. Adult size between 5 to 7 feet is common. Considered a timid day­active species, much prefers to get out of your way but can be very protective whenguarding nest. Gives off audible and expanded hood warnings before striking, but maychase after intruders near its nest. Young snakes are more nervous and aggressive thanadults, but the venom is as potent. First bite usually without venom but provoked nestingadults have been known to bite and hold to deliver fatal dose of venom.

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The NOPE in shore jungle areas ­

Mangrove Pit Viper,(Pic Credit Wikipedia)

The NOPE on the tree ­ Wagler's Pit Viper

(Pic Credit Wikipedia)

Malayan Banded Krait. One of the krait species. said to be the shiest, gentle and very venomous NOPE. (Pic Credit Wikipedia)

Krait Genus Snakes / Ular Katam Tebu & the local Genus (Genus; Bungarus)Common places – Animal holes and termite mounds in open area near water bodies, butare common in wide areas including houses.Food – Other snakes & reptiles.Venom Type & Effects – Very potent Neurotoxin (Paralyse all muscles)Description –Although having a very potent venom, this genus of snake are among the most shy andtimid snakes around. They’re lethargic and very slow moving in the day. Very reluctant tobite even when they are disturbed. They are more active at night and in rainy weather, thisis also when some species in this genus may be quite aggressive. They have small fangsand from the very few reports available, their bites were said to be almost painless. Thiscould mean a hazard as a hiker who is bitten in their desensitized leg may not feel the bite.All you know is you're nauseous, sleepy, suffocating and then go into a very dead sleep.

Mangrove Pit Viper & Wagner Pit Viper & whole Genus /Ular Kapak Bakau & Kapak Tokong (Genus;Trimeresurus)Common places – On the trees and branches. Sometimesnear banks and cave walls.Food – Birds, Lizards, Bats & small vertebratesVenom Type & Effects – Primarily Haemotoxins (Destroysblood cells)Description –These are the arboreal vipers commonly hanging out in thetrees (literally) and are active at low light dusk and night. Thegenus can be found in wide range areas but more common inmangrove forests, caves and near the animal/human trails inthe jungle. Wagner Pit Viper and Sumatran Pit Viper prefer tostay in trees and mangrove pit viper prefers to hunt nearwater bodies. This genus is abundant in the snake temple inpenang (i swear i'd never go there). The height of their perchcan be as low as 2 feet up to tens of feet on a tree. Mostlydangerous because they are all ambush predators, so theydo not move too much and quite likely to strike if they feel

threatened. Hot tempered, very fast striker and they deliver a lot of venom like all vipers.

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A rather deceitfully dangerous NOPE ­ Common Cobra. (Pic Credit Wikipedia)

Common cobra / Ular Senduk / Ular Tedung Senduk (Species; Naja­Naja )Common places: in holes, under fallen logs especially where rats live esp jungle fringes,bamboo bushes and plantationsFood : Small mammalsVenom Type & Effects : Neurotoxin & Cardiotoxin (Paralyse all muscles & damages heart)Description:This one is quite common; sometimes in populated areas that has lots of rats. Adult’s lengthbetween 2 to 4 feet and it is active at night and sometimes day too. Its temperament isgeneral and unlikely to strike unprovoked. Gives off high pitch hiss when alarmed and thetypical cobra warning ­ raises head with expanded hood before attempt defensive strike.Some cobra species look similar and can spit venoms to human eyes. Unfortunately, due totheir habit of being active in day and living close to human population while hunting rats,this species are at second place as killer snakes in Malaysia.

Malaysian Pit Viper ­ a real gangsta enjoying a thug life in their home ­ the malaysian jungle. The biggest killer NOPE around. (Pic Credit

Wikipedia)

Malayan pit viper / Ular Kapak, Kapak Malas or Kapak Bodo <N. Msia>(Species; Calloselasma rhodostoma)Common places – Forest floors, under fallen logs, in dead leaves cover, widely distributedin the dry lowlands.Food – Rodents & small vertebratesVenom Type & Effects – Haemotoxin+Cytotoxin (Destroy blood cells and destroys celltissues)Description –

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Page 5: (1) Snakebite Preventions for Jungle Hiking and Camping

15/6/2015 (1) Snakebite Preventions for Jungle Hiking and Camping

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Introducing the number 1 killer snake in Malaysia.The Malaysian Pit Viper! Its so hottempered it has caused human injuries roughly 3 times more than all the other snakes inthis list COMBINED. In fact, this species is so gangsta, it have been known to stay at thesame place where it has bitten someone (yep, truth) and sometimes even issuing profanitysigns using its tail (lol, joke!). Its very short, stubby and for a snake with 3 feet for itsmaximum size it does have huge fangs (up to an inch long) plus fearsome amount ofvenom to boot. What makes it the most dangerous snake for jungle hikers are thecombination of their hot temper, excellent camouflage, night & rain activeness plus theirlaziness. Yes, LAZINESS or rather, gangsta attitude. It will not move a muscle if you’repassing beside it most of the time. They will strike if they feel threatened and they can do afull body strike (striking by launching their whole body forward). Likely with no warning, nonothing. If they issue a warning, it will be their loud, short hiss. Being such a jungle“samseng” it has lower dry­bite rate among venomous snakes which means it will pushvenom into the bite if it can. Oh, and when they bite, they will usually grab & hold. Enoughwith scary stuff, I think. SNAKEBITE PREVENTIONS IN HIKES Wear Rugged BootsMost snakebites occur around the lower leg areas, owing to the fact that our problem snakein Malaysia is the ground viper. Wearing a pair of good high cut, military grade jungle bootwill not only protect your feet from 2 inch rattan thorns and help your ankles avoid sprains,but also gives ample protection from snakebites. I recommend at least Kulitkraf jungleboots. Or go for the best jungle boot ­ Altama boots with Cordura sides. Many hikerscomplains about the weight of these jungle boots and prefer flimsy shoes or lightweightshoes with no ankle support. Personally, I wouldn't want to worry about stepping on thorns,snakes or any other ground creatures while I'm busy sprinting for my life after a closeencounter with a huge wild boar with somekind of anger management issues. I would like tobuy Altama, but my size is really hard to get. So I use the old fashioned jungle boots fromKulitkraf ­ the supplier for Malaysian Military. the Altama can only be bought new fromoverseas (internet shopping) and Kulitkraf boots are available at their factory in PJ – linkhere; http://www.kulitkraf.com/contactus.htm Wear Very Rugged PantsIf they don’t get to your ankles, they may get your calf or shin. The solution here is to get ridof those sexy, skin hugging running tights or wear them inside as underwear. Snake strikinghabits especially at night – They sink their fangs to the first thing their mouth make contactwith! If what you’re wearing is some RM200 yoga pants, I say good luck to you, sir. I highlyrecommend wearing loose pants with super strong materials and near indestructible seams(for your own modesty), preferably the best money can buy. Add just a little into the moneyyou saved up for the fancy hiking­yoga pants and you'll get the best jungle hiking pants youcould get in Malaysia. You do need tough pants, no joke. Hiking is not an activity withoutdragging and scraping your rear end to the ground too.These tough, loose tactical pants quick to dry, allow for better movement, good aeration,ample space (men only) and it gives you some snakebite safety to boot. That 2 cm spacebetween your flesh and the pants materials might mean life or death. This is particularlytrue to the Krait genus as their fangs are small and a tough cloth can stop you being dead.My personal favourite now is Vertx Tactical Pants and as far as I have used it all theseyears not a stitch went wrong. It might cost me a bit more that i'd spend on a pants, buttotally worth it as I just need ONE good pants for hiking and it lasts years. Vertx pants areluckily are available in Malaysia now, from this link here;https://www.facebook.com/vertxmalaysia Wear a Cap/HatNo! Hat is not meant for you to charm the angry serpent to leave you alone. It might giveyou some protection against an unseen Sumatran Pit Viper above, although that is neverproven. I recommend wearing hat because the best defence agreed by Herpetologistswhen stumbling onto an angry snake in VERY close proximity is ­ to take off your hat slowlyand throw the hat to it. It’ll be hard to take off your shirt for this purpose while humping arucksack, not to mention too obscene taking off your belt to throw as a diversion andrunning away with your pants half way down.Snakes are not Nak Muays (muay thai fighters). They do not look into your eyes and playmind games with you. They are as surprised and nervous as you are. They look at yourmovements and if any of your movements they consider threatening, it can make themstrike. Hence, stop! , Keep calm, observe it, get ready to jump away and reach for your hatslowly, lower it down to your waist and toss quickly to the snake as a sacrifice.

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Then, what? Back away swiftly to a safe distance as soon as the snake diverted its attentiontowards the hat. If it was a King Cobra guarding her nest, return for it after 90 days. If it wasa Malaysian Pit Viper, you have very small chance getting it back without a ransom. Thatslithering gangsta might like your flowery hat and decides to keep it. Step Only Where You Can SeeI can't stress this enough. This is common sense! Do not put your feet where you can’t seethe surrounding. Say there’s a big fallen log on the trail, remind yourselves snakes love itand one might be behind orunder it. So don’t step beyond it if you can’t see what is behindthe log. Step one foot on the log, look down to check, jump to a safe distance and look backto make sure all is clear. Camp Before DarkOkay, this will get on the nerves of many hikers especially the super fit and hardcoremountain climbathoners. Because they are making record time, they trek many hours intothe night. I am fine with these people as they are trying to break world records and theyknow the risks, ‘well trained’ in technical rescue and emergency medicine. But for somemountain climbing organizers, making newbie participants jungle hiking at night, without acomplete medic kit, antivenom or worse ­ without even briefing participants of the risk nighthiking may bring is no short of irresponsible. Why I sound like angry? Not angry. Justbecause most venomous snakes go out hunting at night. So does many other hazards thatwe can’t see. The jungle is dangerous at night. The darkness and unnatural headlightsprevent even an experienced medic to see symptoms of extreme fatigue or anaphylaxisamong his charges. On the issue of ‘overtime hiking’ some of these organizers said to me “We need to get tocamp xxx or yyy because there are NO place to camp between there and here”. I’m sorrypeople, really sorry because it's unacceptable for me. The jungle is full of places to camp.There are ways and gears to camp on a vertical mountain ridge safely, there sure are waysto camp on a hillside slope full of trees without clearing a full blown campsite. Worseorganizers simply states that it is not dangerous at all and many thousand people did it withno incident. These are just deaths waiting to happen. It’s the journey that matters, not the destination. Don’t go to a zoo claiming you lovewatching animals and proceed to make a half hour zoo racing circuit, risking your limb andlife. If you love watching animals, why the hurry? Go jungle hiking, ensure safety by takingyour time and don’t push too far from your limits. People have died because someorganizers take the “tadak hal punya” attitude. Make camp before it's dark, people. Enjoyyour time in the jungle SAFELY instead of joining another ratrace in the jungle then whensomething wrong then blame the jungle creatures. SNAKEBITE PREVENTIONS IN CAMP Stay Off The GroundMost snake slithers on the ground at night. So don’t sleep on the ground. Your movementsare the source of the vibrations which indicate your presence to a snake. With that, theycan avoid you. But if you sleep on the ground motionless, your body heat will attract asnake. Snake loves heat and cover. If you look like a warm lumpy rock to it and it’s happy toslither into one of the open holes. Then both of you will be suprised to death. Reach Only Where You Can SeeCooking, washing, doing admins, tying your flysheet, clearing the dry leaves or whateveryou do, do not reach to a place where you can’t see. Common sense, people. There's areason why people are not nocturnal creatures and granted vision as our best sense. Useyour eyes. The jungle is there to train modern men to be a better observer, not a DarwinAward's winner. Clear Your Camp GroundI do not mean taking rake and sweeping clean a whole of Kem Naning when you stay there.I just mean the ground under your flysheet and its immediate surroundings. As I mentionedearlier, Snakes love heat and cover. Remove the cover element (dry leaves, dead woodetc) after you're done setting flysheet. Sweep away all dry leaves, exposing the soil andspread the dry leaves away from your fly sheet. Your flysheet is your habitat, and you havetemporarily remove all critter and snake habitat to lounge in near you. Now they have oneless reason to slither into your camp. Here's a bonus, you're also unlikely to get bitten byleeches, scorpions and centipedes this way as they make their home and feeding groundunder the dry leaves.

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Just one thing, sweep back the leaves and cover the grounds back as best you can so theground does not dry up too much and critters can repopulate the area. It was their home.Leave it as you arrive. Keep Your Kit Off The GroundI make it very clear during my courses, I do not wish to see anyone putting their pack on anunprepared/uninspected ground. Once you put a pile of thing here and another pile ofthings there, they start to look like a cosy bungalow for many critters, snakes included. Youhave just removed the natural covers for the snake, why put artificial ones now? Arrangeyour firewood neatly, don’t just pile them. Hang your backpack onto a tree. Your place willfeel home in no time. Clear the grounds from things that could cover a snake and the placewill become your habitat, not the critters or snakes. At the very least if one still slithers in,there's a cleared area for you to run or jump like a mad rock guitarist. Worse case scenariois, you put your pack down during a hike or a camp, pick it up and a snake (or othervenomous creatures) come out from it's cosy hiding place in the pack and decides to giveyou a lovebite. Snake Oils, Salt and SulphurTo be honest, none of them has worked yet. Snake oil are just snake oil, salt will not evenfaze the snake unless the snake is already in the frying pan and sulphur might just work ifyou put enough concentrations on the damp ground to permanently poison the soil. Mainly,sulphurs these days are regulated in their concentrations and are not as it was twenty yearsago. If it doesn't burn your hands, most likely the snake will just glide over it.Calcium Carbaid ? Please stop polluting the jungle soil. It does not work as soon as itevaporates and loose the heat in 30 mins. How about some spiritual things to ward off snakes? Jampi siam? Well, I am not one to[[$#%(!^$*@&^]]+[[haktuii! tuiii! tuiih!]], but i see no harm trying if it gives you peace ofmind. I tried that too, but never worked. I was never in good term with the spirit world iguess. Now im just waiting to try out some snake repellent app for android. Lol. There you have it, my share of ways to prevent unnecessary death by snakebites duringour trips, while having fun. Remember, for the animals the jungle is their home. So when wego there to hike or camp, YOU have to watch out for them, not the other way around. Keep safe, campers. The Campmaster.Original article for Jungle Training School Malaysia.­ Various data sources.

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Edmund Lim This post is very strange for an fb post. It's actually informative.Like · Reply · 2 · June 3 at 9:34pm

Jungle Training School Malaysia I know man. Being real is hard on business. LolLike · June 3 at 9:41pm

Nicholas Beh Very well written article, i nearly stepped on a ular kapak last weekend and yea itwas at night in the campsite, luckily it moved away.Like · Reply · 3 · June 3 at 2:01pm

Jungle Training School Malaysia Wohooo... Could've been worse, Nicholas. One lucky guyyou are.Like · 3 · June 3 at 2:03pm

Ray Trol Lington Awesome article! I now request for one on spiders Like · Reply · 3 · June 3 at 8:33pm

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Jungle Training School Malaysia Do we have tarantula types here, Marcus?Like · June 4 at 5:21pm

Page 8: (1) Snakebite Preventions for Jungle Hiking and Camping

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Henry Chan I think if you see a snake in the wild, it's time to go buy 4D & Toto!Like · Reply · 1 · June 3 at 8:04pm

Jungle Training School Malaysia Maybe that is true in many places aready.. So sad toknow people actually just kill a snake on sight and some species above are listed asVulnerable by CITESLike · 1 · June 3 at 9:18pm

Lai Loy U chant the Karaniya METTA , Siam monks also doing it.Like · Reply · 1 · June 3 at 7:16pm

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Lai Loy Just kiddingLike · 1 · June 4 at 9:40am

Anas Adlan Amir Awesome read! Kipidap Campmaster! Looking forward to joining one of yourcourses soon for real hands­on learning!Like · Reply · 3 · June 3 at 4:02pm

Jungle Training School Malaysia Sure will do, buddy. Thank you for the neverendingsupport. What's a Campmaster without the campers, yeah?Like · 1 · June 3 at 4:09pm

Jungle Training School Malaysia Just a way for me to say thanks you all for the likes and supports!Thank you so much for helping me making the jungle a safe place!Like · Reply · 2 · June 3 at 1:44pm

Zhen Chong Nice!Like · Reply · 1 · June 3 at 8:53pm

Norrani Osman Thanx for sharing...Khalit Yatim Suhaidy Zakariya Rezal Ismail pls take noteLike · Reply · 2 · June 3 at 5:10pm

Jungle Training School Malaysia You're very welcome.Like · June 3 at 6:01pm

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