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Post-Junior Cert Options

Kinsale Community School

Tuesday, 20th January 2015

Ber Bowen– Guidance Counsellor

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Post-Junior Cert OptionsPurpose of Talk To help parents decide upon which of the 3

programmes is most suitable for your son/daughter

To give information on each option

To answer any questions

To enable you to get more information

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Post-Junior Cert Options

Leaving Certificate Established Programme (LCE) –Traditional Leaving Cert

Leaving Certificate Applied Programme (LCA) Transition Year Programme (TY) It is important to give consideration to which

programme the student will undertake and to do so taking account of not only what might be beneficial for the student in the short -term but in the long -term as well

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Factors Which May Influence Decision What the student wants Influence of friends and what they are doing What parents, siblings, or significant others might

advise The academic ability of the student The academic achievement of the student The student’s disposition towards schoolwork,

attendance and expectation What the student wishes to do after the LC

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Senior Cycle – Traditional LC or LCA or TY

It is really important to ensure that each student picks the course of study which suits them best – not just for academic reasons, but also for social reasons, self-confidence reasons, self-esteem reasons and overall happiness.

A good LCA is far better than a poor traditional LC in terms of employment and the chance of obtaining a place on FE courses (such as Cork College of Commerce or progressing onto Higher Education – universities and Institutes of Technology)

Students need to be prepared to work really hard from the start of Y5 for traditional LC and be or become self-directed and self-motivated

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Hand on to Ms Kelly to introduce LCA

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Senior Cycle – LCE (Traditional LC)

Huge difference between Junior and Senior Cycle

Fewer subjects for examination so subjects are studied in greater depth

More time given to those subjects e.g. from 3 classes to 5 per week

The level of difficulty with regard to subjects is much higher

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Senior Cycle changes

All subjects are offered at honours and pass level

Irish and Maths available at foundation level also Students will be divided into honours/pass in

Irish, English, Maths and French in Y5 Optional subjects are all taught at honours level

The way subjects are graded is more exact, so instead of a C (55%-69%) in the JC every 5% from 40% to 90% at LC will get a different grade which in turn impacts on the overall points total

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Leaving Certificate Points Calculation GridLeaving Certificate Points Calculation Grid

LCVP points awarded: Distinction (80-100% )=70 pts, Merit (65-79% )=50 pts and Pass (50-64%) =30 pts

Until 2015, 25 bonus points will be added to the points score for Leaving Certificate Higher Level Mathematics (Grade D3 or above).

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All Three Subjects (3) Irish (Those with DES exemptions

will do business)

English Maths

These subjects are vital for careers/ courses

One of the Following (1) French German Geography

Most should choose a language as it is very important for many courses (except if they have difficulties or an alternative language)

Can also choose Geog as well as a language

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Optional Subjects – Choose 3 Geography History Home Economics Physics Chemistry Biology Art Music Business Accounting

Construction Studies (known as Woodwork for JC)

Engineering (known as Metalwork for JC)

Design and Communication Graphics (known as Tech Graph for JC)

Applied Maths Agricultural Science Exam Religion LCVP (Link Modules)

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Optional Subjects It is highly desirable that if a student picks a

subject for LC that they have taken to JC as otherwise they may be at a considerable disadvantage

If a subject has not been taken to JC it may not be possible to do it for LC – it depends on the subject. For example taking up biology not having taken science for JC is far more difficult (and not recommended) than say taking up Home Economics

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Optional Subjects

Need Junior Cert Accounting Chemistry Physics DCG Engineering Construction Music (unless have music

outside)

Available without JC Business Biology (not recommended)

Home Economics(JC sc helps)

Art

Open to all History Geography Exam Religion Applied Maths Agricultural Science

(JC Science helps)

LCVP

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LCVP - More properly called Link Modules.

Programme Requirements for students taking Leaving Certificate Examination from 2004 onwards

In order to qualify to register for these link modules a number of conditions must be met

At least five Leaving Certificate subjects plus the Link Modules, one of which must be Irish (unless exempt)

Two of the above subjects must be selected from one of the designated Vocational Subject Groupings

Two Link Modules: Preparation for the World of Work and Enterprise Education A recognised course in a Modern European Language other than Irish or English: What  is a recognised Modern European language course for LCVP students? The school has the discretion in this case – there are various options open to

students. They can take a language at Junior Certificate level or they can follow one of the

FETAC language modules or the language teacher can devise a school programme in the language.

Students must take the language class for a minimum of one class period per week or equivalent over the two years of the programme within school time.

If a student is exempt from Irish for the Leaving Certificate they are automatically exempt for the LCVP and students should replace Irish with another subject.

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Qualifying Subjects for LCVPVocational Subject Groupings (VSGs) 2012/2013 Specialist Groupings1. Constr Studies; Engineering; Design and Comm Graphics - Any Two 2. Physics and Construction Studies or Engineering or DCG3. Agricultural Science and Construction Studies or Engineering or DCG4. Agricultural Science and Chemistry or Physics 5. Home Economics; Agricultural Science; Biology - Any Two6. Home Economics and Art - Design Option or Craft Option7. Accounting and Business-   8. Physics and Chemistry9. Biology and Chemistry or Physics 10. Biology and Agricultural Science11. Art - Design Option or Craft Option and DCG Services Groupings 1. Engineering or Construction Studies or DCG and Accounting or Business 2. Home Economics and Accounting or Business 3. Agricultural Science and Accounting or Business4. Art  and Accounting or Business 5. Music and Accounting or Business

All subjects must be studied in same centre as Link Modules (i.e. in school) 

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Link Modules -note

The LC scoring of LCVP is different: Distinction (80%+) worth 70 pts Merit (65%-79%) worth 50 pts Pass (50%-64%) worth 30 pts

This subject does not qualify them for Matriculation purposes (NUI University entry)

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Factors that influence Subject Choice for Y5 in traditional LC

Likes/dislikes the subject – enthusiasm & interest Being good at the subject – attainment in JC Needing the subject for course/career choice after

the Leaving Cert Friends/parents/significant others such as siblings Likes/dislikes the teacher, or the teacher they think

will be teaching them! Not a good reason for picking a subject!

Perceived as being ‘easy’ or ‘hard’

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Ensuring Good Subject Choice

Discuss subject choice with your son/daughter Students will be told and shown how to do as

much research as possible – not all do Do as much research yourself – excellent

resources available Be realistic – if a student did not like or excel at

a subject at JC why would that change at LC

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Subjects and Careers -If in Doubt, check it out Contrary to popular opinion, there are only a few

required subjects for careers/ College entry.

Most requirements involve core subjects of Irish, English, Maths and a Language.

The main other subjects specified in College courses are science subjects – One for many courses, 2 for some and sometimes specifying e.g. Chemistry. Chemistry and one other lab sc covers requirements for most serious science coursesSo research needs to be done if science is being considered as a serious option.

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Subject and careers

Useful or Required? Most other courses/ careers do not specifically require subjects but

they are of course useful. e.g. You do not need Accounting in Leaving Cert to study Accounting in College ; But it helps.

If serious about any area ( business, art, science, practical, technical, etc) then the choice of related subjects is easy and obvious

It is quite possible to study 3 sciences, 3 technical subjects, 2-3 creative subjects, 2 business subjects and students do so successfully every year

If not focused on any particular area a popular choice is one science, one business and one other subject. It covers most course entry and career options

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Optional Subjects

Handout available outlining what each of the subjects entails – the types of skills and aptitudes necessary for the subject

Handout will supplement the sources of information highlighted in this presentation

Again the more research that is undertaken re subjects and possible future course choices the more likely the student will pick the right subjects

www.qualifax.ie (click on students, then subject choice, then minimum subject requirements)

www.careersportal.ie (very comprehensive)

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What Now?

Decision needs to be made about which programme will be applied for.

Detailed TY application form (given tonight) should be returned to school office for the attention of Ms Hay

LCA application will be dealt with by Ms Kelly Traditional LC - Subject Choice Form will be

given to those going straight to Y5 and should be returned to Ms K O’Brien

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Those opting for Traditional LC

Students going into Y5 will be given more detailed talk by guidance counsellors to go along with the form asking them to indicate what subjects they wish to choose.

In this initial open choice the student will be asked for their 4 subjects in order of preference. This includes a back-up subject

It is vital that students and parents research and seriously consider this choice as it determines the subject blocks that will eventually be presented to students

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KCS 5Y Options for 2015/2016NAME: ___________________________

IRISH Circle one of the following: Irish/ Business (for those with DES exemption document only)

LANGUAGES Circle one of the following: French/ German/ Geography

OPTIONS SUBJECTS Choose ANY FOUR of the following subjects in order of preference.

Home EconomicsArt Applied Maths Construction Studies Business

Biology Agricultural Science LCVP DCG Music

Physics Geography History Engineering Chemistry

Examination Religion Accounting

1st choice: _________________________2nd choice:_________________________3rd choice:__________________________4th choice:__________________________

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•3 Bands will be generated from these preferences and we will endeavour to allow you to study 3 of the subjects you have chosen.

•A subject may not be viable to run if numbers are too small

•Please ensure that if you choose LCVP in any band that the other subjects you choose qualify you to do it (see attached document)

•Please do not choose the same subject more than once

Please return this form completed to the Deputy Principal’s office by 1pm on the specified date on the form. If a student returns the form late, they may not get their chosen subjects. If the form is filled incorrectly (eg. 3 choices instead of 4), the form will be returned to you and this may also cause delay and have repercussions for subject allocation.

•See school Guidance Counsellors with any questions.

Procedures around Subject Choice

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Procedures around Subject Choice

The purpose of the free choice is to try to ensure that as many students as possible get as many of their preferred subjects as possible

While the school tries to ensure that students get their choice, students and parents need to be aware there is no guarantee of students getting all their subject choices

When the blocks have been set (these will not change once set), students will be made aware of the subjects they will be taking in Fifth Year

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Final Comments Our experience has been that those for whom LCA might

be the most suitable option are more likely to choose the LCA option if they do not undertake TY but its not impossible

A comprehensive handout on traditional LC subject choice is available at the end of the talks outlining each optional subject so please take this if student is considering going straight to Y5

There will a more detailed talk for parents of TY on subject choice on next Tues, 27th Jan and you are welcome to attend

Those who may have questions about traditional LC, or other career or educational related questions related to TY or LCA, please feel free to contact Ms Bowen in school or email berbowen@gmail.com