yukon-kuskokwim delta alaska federal …nov 07, 2019 · 7 madame chair rogers: we'll go ahead...

YUKON-KUSKOKWIM DELTA SUBSISTENCE RAC MEETING 2

11/7/2019 YUKON - KUSKOKWIM DELTA RAC MEETING

Computer Matrix, LLC 135 Christensen Dr., Ste. 2., Anch. AK 99501

Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

YUKON-KUSKOKWIM DELTA ALASKA FEDERAL SUBSISTENCE REGIONAL ADVISORY COUNCIL MEETING

PUBLIC MEETING

VOLUME II

Yupiit Piciryarait Cultural Center

Bethel, Alaska November 7, 2019

9:06 a.m.

MEMBERS PRESENT:

Alissa Rogers, Chair John Andrew William Brown James Charles James Landlord Carl Maxie Raymond Oney Phillip Peter Richard Slats

Regional Council Coordinator, Eva Patton

Recorded and transcribed by:

Computer Matrix Court Reporters, LLC 135 Christensen Drive, Suite 2 Anchorage, AK 99501 907-243-0668/[email protected]

mailto:907-243-0668/[email protected]




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 133

1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 3 (Bethel, Alaska - 11/7/2019) 4 5 (On record) 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: We'll go ahead 8 and call this meeting to order at 9:06 a.m. 9

10 Do you want to do the invocation this 11 morning. 12 13 MR. CHARLES: (Invocation) 14 15 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Quyana, James 16 Charles. I'm so glad you guys were able to make it in, 17 it's good to see you all. 18 19 Eva, who would do the roll call since 20 Raymond's not here. 21 22 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 23 I can go ahead and do roll call. Our Secretary is 24 absent this morning. 25 26 Good morning everyone and welcome to -- 27 everyone here who's joined us this morning and on 28 teleconference. 29 30 All right, so many of our Council 31 members made it in safely last night. 32 33 So we'll start with roll call. 34 35 William Brown. 36 37 (No comments) 38 39 MS. PATTON: William Brown from Eek. 40 41 MR. BROWN: Here. 42 43 MS. PATTON: James Charles, 44 Tuntutuliak. 45 46 MR. CHARLES: Here. 47 48 MS. PATTON: John Andrew, Kwethluk. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 134

1 MR. ANDREW: Here. 2 3 MS. PATTON: James Landlord, Mountain 4 Village. 5 6 MR. LANDLORD: Here. 7 8 MS. PATTON: Alissa Rogers, Bethel. 9 Alissa Nadine Rogers, Bethel.

10 11 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Present. 12 13 MS. PATTON: Phillip K. Peter, Sr., 14 Akiachuk. 15 16 MR. PETER: Here. 17 18 MS. PATTON: Carl Maxie, Sr., 19 Napaskiak. 20 21 MR. MAXIE: Here. 22 23 MS. PATTON: Raymond Oney of Alakanuk 24 was weathered out, and no flights were available this 25 week so he may be calling us by teleconference and 26 joining for some of the meeting if he's able to get 27 through but currently Ray Oney is absent. 28 29 Richard Slats, Chevak. 30 31 MR. SLATS: Here. 32 33 MS. PATTON: And Robert Aloysius, 34 Kalskag. I'd like to recognize Robert, he is in 35 Anchorage for medical care right now so our thoughts 36 and good wishes go out to Robert for good health. 37 38 Thank you, Madame Chair. 39 40 We currently have seven of 10 currently 41 appointed Council members. We have quorum. 42 43 Thank you. 44 45 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 46 So we..... 47 48 MR. SLATS: Madame Chair. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 135

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead. 2 3 MR. SLATS: I would like to make a 4 motion to excuse Robert Aloysius. 5 6 MR. CHARLES: Second the motion. 7 8 MR. SLATS: .....because he's not here 9 for medical reasons.

10 11 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. And 12 it's been -- any questions or comments. 13 14 15 (No comments) 16 17 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All those in 18 favor say aye. 19 20 IN UNISON: Aye. 21 22 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: And for welcome 23 and introductions we'll go ahead with Mr. Phillip 24 Peter, you want to introduce yourself. 25 26 MR. PETER: Yeah. My name is Phillip 27 K. Peter, Sr., I'm from (indiscernible) Native 28 Community, about 18 miles above Bethel, 32 miles above 29 Bethel too on the river. I'm also newly elected again, 30 we had election yesterday. I run for the council and I 31 told them young fellows that it's going to be my last 32 year for running as a Council. 33 34 Thank you. 35 36 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: William, do you 37 want to introduce yourself. 38 39 MR. BROWN: Yeah, I'm William Brown 40 from Eek. Most of them, they call me, back home, 41 Charlie, Charlie's my middle name. And a lot of them 42 tease me about my dog, you know, Snoopy, but I got 43 dogs, but they do have names. 44 45 Quyana. 46 47 (In Yup'ik) 48 49 INTERPRETER: I want to thank all of 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 136

1 you for me to be able to attend with you the meetings 2 here. Since this past year, every time that you had a 3 meeting this past year I've been wanting to attend here 4 but my health wasn't up to par so I was not able to 5 attend the past meetings this past year. I was kind of 6 lonesome to be at home while you guys were at a 7 meeting. 8 9 And I want to thank you again that I

10 have been thinking that -- I've been thankful for the 11 fishing season this past summer, that it went smoothly 12 and we worked together for that common good and it went 13 really good and so -- and we did achieve this by 14 working together and so it was like there was no -- we 15 used to -- there was no objections really from the 16 villages or anybody else and so it went along smoothly. 17 And while we were processing the salmon that we got, we 18 did catch the food that we need and especially in June, 19 that's the drying season so without much humidity, so 20 when we dried our fish in June it was really good, our 21 fish did try and it was well prepared and so a lot of 22 people were thankful for the coinciding of the fishing 23 openings and the weather. 24 25 And so I am thankful that we achieved 26 that with our meetings together. 27 28 I'm also looking forward to this year 29 to repeat that process again and we would really like 30 to work together, especially with the State, Federal 31 and tribal agencies and I would like the tribes to come 32 forth and really do -- will be a good partner so we can 33 prepare for the fishing season again this coming summer 34 and let's use the model that we just used this past 35 summer because I think that was the best summer, 36 fishing season that we've had for the years past, and 37 so it was a really good effort on everybody's part and 38 we did catch our fish and that's what I've been 39 thinking so thank you. 40 41 I also wanted to bring up what I heard 42 this fall regarding the salmon. That there was a lot 43 of die-off of the salmon in the Kuskokwim River and 44 I've been really wondering about that. There was a lot 45 of salmon carcasses floating on the water and so I 46 really wanted researchers or scientists to look at that 47 and see what exactly was the reason for the salmon die- 48 off at the mouth of the bay there. It's been quite 49 awhile since we have -- I know it's been quite a few 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 137

1 years in Japan where there was a nuclear tsunami impact 2 and the nuclear plant was washed into the sea and I'm 3 thinking perhaps maybe that has something to do with 4 the salmon die-off and I know that we've watched this 5 on the television series and I wanted to see if the 6 Fukushima impacted our Bering Sea fishing and I really 7 wanted to see if there's any correlation between the 8 die-off and that nuclear accident that happened. And 9 so I really want to see if the Alaskan waters are good

10 for fishing. 11 12 And before that incident I know that 13 we've also had that H1N-something bird -- the bird 14 problem that we had with the birds flying here with 15 their disease or whatever, and they had die-offs and so 16 I really wanted to see what is happening out on the 17 outer worlds, away from us that directly affect our 18 trying -- our food gathering here and so I've really 19 been curious about this and I've heard that it's from 20 the warm waters from the climate change but I know that 21 since I was a little child we used to have pretty hot 22 weather and even when we had hot weather when we were 23 little -- when I was a child nobody talked about any of 24 the fish or wildlife dying off in numbers like they 25 did, and so I really wanted to see what the difference 26 is now and if there's a correlation between these 27 events. 28 29 Especially the die-off that we had on 30 the salmon on the Kuskokwim River and it was not just 31 the salmon that were affected, and I know that there 32 are murres, there are sea birds also dying off in other 33 parts of Alaska so I really want to see what the 34 correlation between all the die-offs between these 35 species are, and I would really appreciate somebody 36 telling me all this. 37 38 Quyana. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Charles. 41 42 MR. CHARLES: My name is James Charles 43 from Tuntutuliak. I'm like Charlie, I come from 44 Tuntutuliak, that's close to the mouth of Kuskokwim. 45 And I have been -- if we had -- first thing working 46 group members have alternates and if we had alternates 47 here we could have sent the alternate too, but we -- 48 we're lucky we have a quorum this morning. If there 49 was quorum problem before we'd have quorum that -- like 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 138

1 working group members always have quorum -- I mean 2 always have quorum anyways because John is my alternate 3 at the working group and if we had -- if I cannot 4 attend the meeting John is there. And so our people 5 would be like that. And so -- but travel is a problem 6 now because it has been raining in the wintertime and 7 we know that it's the weather, the problem. 8 9 And I'm like Charlie, I worry about the

10 fish too, on the river, because I know chums swim down 11 below then the jumpers, reds are the problem nowadays 12 -- reds -- they're new fish, but they're -- if there 13 was -- when I was a kid, when there's red salmon that 14 is hanging to dry, it's visible from distance, and reds 15 and kings, too. Because they have different meat on 16 them. And I worry about salmon too. But their surface 17 -- or all that made me think, even the humpbacks -- 18 humpback whales jump out in the -- out of the water -- 19 and so our salmon goes like that too. Red salmon likes 20 to jump in the water. And so that made me wonder. I 21 called Fish and Game right away when I heard there was 22 dead salmon on the river so they told me it was the 23 temperature in the water. And so that made me wonder 24 about humpback whales too. Because we saw -- the 25 people with the TV saw that, there were three dead -- 26 or floated to shore at Anchorage this summer. And so 27 they talk about the species shortage this year. And so 28 that made me wonder about salmon too. 29 30 But like king salmons swims below and 31 dog salmon swims below too. But there's always jumpers 32 on reds. So something may be in the air or water so 33 it's not the temperature only,or if it's the 34 temperature in the water that's a problem too, but like 35 -- I'm like Charlie, I worry about those because our -- 36 we work on proposals and stuff like that and so that's 37 it. 38 39 Thank you. 40 41 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 42 Charles. 43 44 Mr. Slats, do you want to introduce 45 yourself. 46 47 MR. SLATS: I'll go after. 48 49 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: After, yes, now. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 139

1 MR. SLATS: (In Yup'ik) 2 3 INTERPRETER: I am the son of John and 4 Duma (indiscernible), I am named after them. My 5 grandmother -- my father's -- I did not see my paternal 6 grandfather. My ancestors are from Chevak area, 7 Kassunik (ph), and I am Cup'ik. 8 9 MR. SLATS: Throughout my life I've

10 been going to school on and off after I graduated from 11 the Bethel Regional High School. And I got my AA 12 degree with the Rural Human Services. I'm the Second 13 Chief for the Chevak Native Village. I'm also a member 14 of the Chevak Company Corporation. 15 16 I got appointed to this seat about a 17 year ago, and I've been proud to have been among these 18 subsistence hunters, fishers and our elders that sit up 19 here that know a lot about what goes on in our area. 20 And it's really -- it's always been like a learning 21 experience for me to sit down and sit with them. 22 23 I'm also a member of the Bering Sea 24 Elders Group Executive Committee. 25 26 And recently I got appointed for the -- 27 to the North Pacific Fisheries Management Council local 28 knowledge and traditional knowledge Task Force that are 29 working on the Bering Sea fisheries ecosystem plan. 30 31 I'm a subsistence hunter, fisher since 32 -- that's how I was raised. 33 34 And when we were all growing up we went 35 to fish camps but this day and age it's -- like a lot 36 of them are not setting up camps no more for us and so 37 that's how we learn firsthand, subsistence, and 38 gathering for the long hard winters. 39 40 We get geese in our area and while I 41 was trying to fly out of Chevak for the Alaska 42 Federation of Natives Convention, there were still 43 geese in our area. In my whole life I've never seen 44 geese this late. It's because -- because for my whole 45 life the geese would be gone by the end of September 46 and we would have to go further south from where we are 47 if we're still trying to, you know, like fill up our 48 freezers and stuff. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 140

1 We have early spring, late fall. And 2 like one of our elder Councilmen told me to say that 3 this is what we're faced with now, this kind of 4 weather. There's no winter trails and it just freezes 5 over just enough that it makes it hard to get on a boat 6 and head out. 7 8 Tomcods. I mentioned tomcods last 9 year. It's just the same as last year, it's just that

10 it would freeze -- our small sloughs where we (In 11 Yup'ik) where we dipnet for tomcods this time of the 12 year, they don't get thick enough for us to get on to 13 dipnet. And usually in the first freeze-up we'd go out 14 and set our whitefish nets under the ice. Last year we 15 had to head back out because of rain and pull our nets 16 out because it's, well, that's what was going on last 17 year. 18 19 And this past summer, our rivers were 20 what I heard from somebody else, that our rivers were 21 lukewarm, you know, you go -- my whole life, when you 22 were setting net, working on checking on our nets and 23 things like this, it would be cold enough that at times 24 we would have to wear those rubber gloves, but it was 25 lukewarm. 26 27 And then I got appointed to set up -- 28 or come in for meetings with NOAA report card, 29 providing local knowledge and traditional knowledge 30 with the elders from up north. We talked about 31 everything that I'm just beginning to say, they, too, 32 have the same issues, the same problems and we went on 33 and on for two days. But at the end we all decided 34 that we needed to declare a state of emergency. We all 35 felt that. 36 37 And then for my tribe we have issues, 38 problems of the open pit mines that are being proposed 39 or moving forward in our area. 40 41 And where there was once permanent ice 42 below from where we are and then the bay and the sea, 43 the Bering Sea right below from where we are, it would 44 freeze over, and the ice would stay there all winter, 45 until spring, and then it would break up. But this day 46 and age, these are ice flows that get beat up whenever 47 the high winds come in. And when I went to that 48 meeting in Bristol Bay, those people from below -- 49 south of us, are seeing high -- much higher wind, winds 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 141

1 that beat up their ice flows, their ice. So there's 2 more humidity that is rising and getting caught into 3 the atmosphere, or in the jet stream and raising havoc 4 down in the state, and that's some of the things that I 5 learned. So we're seeing wild fires in California and 6 they're getting all of our storms on the eastern coast, 7 what we once used to have, they're having blizzards. 8 9 And I still believe what Mr. Phillip

10 Peter had said last year, is that, a time of hunger is 11 coming, because to me that's -- you know these things 12 are coming up. So while we're here these last couple 13 days, we need to also decide that these current events 14 that are happening in our environment need to be 15 considered with the subsistence users in mind. 16 17 Thank you. 18 19 Quyana. 20 21 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Quyana, Mr. 22 Slats. 23 24 Mr. Andrew, would you introduce 25 yourself please. 26 27 MR. ANDREW: Yeah, Quyana. 28 29 (Laughter) 30 31 MR. ANDREW: (In Yup'ik) 32 33 INTERPRETER: I'm going to speak in 34 Yup'ik since we have translators standing by. 35 36 (Laughter) 37 38 INTERPRETER: And looking at our agenda 39 when we make the welcome, the Chairman and from ONC, we 40 usually have that form of welcomes, but since our 41 agenda's been revised, I was thinking that we would 42 just do introductions. 43 44 But what all of you just mentioned, I 45 am not opposed to it, but what you just mentioned is 46 what the Council member reports should be. So pointing 47 that out right now. 48 49 I am glad that there are people here 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 142

1 participating but we do need to welcome everybody to 2 our meeting wherever you are from and appreciate our 3 Staff and welcome the State employees as well, and from 4 the tribes. 5 6 And since the weather's been bad there 7 are others who are stranded. 8 9 But I am (In Yup'ik), it is my

10 grandfather's, my paternal grandfather's name. And my 11 second name is (In Yup'ik) after my paternal uncle as 12 well. 13 14 As a hunter, as a boy, and when I am 15 not working I am a fur trapper, I am known as Trapper 16 John as well, from way back then. 17 18 But in these days and in this group, 19 from 1992 to -- she knows, over there, our regional 20 coordinator, and then those who have gone on before us, 21 they were on this Board and our Chairwoman's 22 Grandfather, John Hanson, was a RAC member. There were 23 more as well. I am glad for our Chairwoman, thinking 24 of her grandfather. 25 26 And when I watch -- see these two 27 elders who are about to retire, they used to be so 28 young when I saw them on the Board, so I'm always 29 teasing them that since when they are out fishing there 30 are few, less fish for the rest of us to get because 31 they are the two that can find where the fish are. 32 33 (Laughter) 34 35 MR. ANDREW: That's all. 36 37 Thank you, Madame Chair. 38 39 (Laughter) 40 41 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Quyana, Mr. 42 Andrew. 43 44 MR. ANDREW: Uh-huh. 45 46 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Landlord, 47 would you like to introduce yourself please. 48 49 MR. LANDLORD: Thank you. My name's 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 143

1 James Landlord, I'm from Mountain Village. 2 3 Last year I was supposed to be here but 4 I got weathered in, weather was stormy for awhile so I 5 didn't make it in. My wife and I have seven children, 6 four girls and three -- three girls and four boys, four 7 grandchildren and one grandchild [sic] boy, he's six 8 months old. It's really different to have 9 grandchildren there, they just warm you up, they always

10 come around and they just hug you and it feels good. I 11 never thought I would have grandchildren. It felt 12 really different when I first had grandchildren and I 13 had to adjust to it. 14 15 (Laughter) 16 17 MR. LANDLORD: This year our 18 temperature went up to around 80 degrees around 19 Mountain and I think all these years it's been around 20 70 degrees and that was -- it was hot but it wasn't 21 very hot like 80. It kept the water kind of cool. But 22 this year when the weather was 80 degrees, when you put 23 your hand in the river the river was warm. And first 24 time I ever heard fish floating down the river. 25 There's a river below Mountain Village called Fish 26 Village, there was some pikes and sheefish floating 27 down from the lake. I never heard that before, that 28 pike's actually die and float down the river. 29 30 The other Council members mentioned the 31 climate change and I think all the organizations are 32 talking about climate change that it's going to affect 33 us. In other organizations, I also sit on the Yukon 34 River InterTribal Watershed Council. It's about 77 35 tribes signed from Canada down to the mouth of the 36 Yukon River, we also discuss climate change there, how 37 it's going to affect the river, maybe the odor or the 38 chemistry of the river might change and it might affect 39 the scent, maybe fish will, you know, won't remember 40 Yukon River. 41 42 Even in our Tribal Council we have 43 climate change in our agenda. We're thinking that if 44 the coastal villages start experiencing high water that 45 maybe some of them might move to high grounds, or maybe 46 even to Mountain Village. We're trying to make a long- 47 range plan, how to adjust to that. 48 49 That's all I have, thank you. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 144

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 2 Landlord. 3 4 Mr. Maxie, would you please introduce 5 yourself. 6 7 MR. MAXIE: Good morning. I'm Carl 8 Maxie from Napaskiak. I'm an avid subsistence hunter. 9

10 This year it's been a good fishing 11 season for us, everybody's been not mumbling or 12 complaining about it like last year, but they all seem 13 to be satisfied with their subsistence fishing. 14 15 I do have a concern with the dying fish 16 that was up there, seals and walrus..... 17 18 (Teleconference interference - 19 participants not muted) 20 21 MR. MAXIE: .....I wonder if EPA or DEC 22 could have an environmental study, and how we could 23 prevent this from happening again with our species of 24 fish. 25 26 And plus where I go for whitefish 27 fishing, there's been a change. I've been only 28 catching pikes. I wonder if these pikes, too, are 29 taking control of our other fish species and how can we 30 do those five questions that we could probably utilize 31 is who, what, when, why and how that we can prevent 32 this from happening again. 33 34 Overall, all the Council members, they 35 had good comments in their introductions. 36 37 That's all I have, Madame Chair. 38 39 Thank you. 40 41 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 42 Maxie. 43 44 I want to welcome you all to the Yukon 45 Kuskokwim Delta Regional Advisory Council meeting and 46 I'm very proud and happy that we have full quorum and a 47 Board here this morning. I'm thankful for all of you 48 for having patience and waiting through our weather 49 days these past couple days, though, we're all here 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

5

1 today. 2 3 My name is Alissa Nadine Rogers. I am 4 the granddaughter of John and Alice Hanson of Alakanuk, 5 and also the granddaughter of Lincoln Fred Joseph of 6 Toksook Bay and Hooper Bay, and also Bridget Hill 7 Joseph of Hooper Bay. My mom and dad are Allen Joseph 8 and Marty Hanson, and I pretty much grew up here and 9 raised in Bethel and was sent out every week to other

10 villages to find out who my family members were and I 11 was told I come from really big family, so I was sent 12 out a lot. 13 14 To be transparent of all of the things 15 that I do for our region and represent our region, the 16 Madame Chair of the Yukon Kuskokwim Subsistence 17 Regional Advisory Council. The Madame Chair of the 18 Bethel Alaska Village Electric Cooperative. The Madame 19 Chair of the -- the Co-Chair of the Kuskokwim Regional 20 Salmon Management Working Group. The Madame Secretary 21 of Alaska State Fish and Game Advisory Committee. The 22 First Nation Future Leader Fellowship for Stanford 23 University. The Co-Founder of the Donlin Gold Working 24 group. The Co-Founder of the Yukon-Kuskokwim River 25 Alliance. The Co-Founder of the Chalista Women's Group. 26 Ambassador for NOAA. Alaska Youth Congression 27 Delegate. Member of the Alaska Community Action on 28 Toxics. Member of the Alaska Derelict Vessel Task 29 Force. A Member of the AFN Subsistence Committee. A 30 member of the LEO Networking. I also own Rogers LLC, 31 which contracts education and outreach and development 32 of environmental fisheries, wildlife proposals and 33 regulations processes. 34 35 Thank you. 36 37 We were thinking about having -- I 38 guess we'll do introductions around the room starting 39 with Ms. Eva. 40 41 MS. PATTON: Good morning everyone and 42 welcome. And it's so wonderful that our Council 43 members can be here -- welcome. 44 45 Eva Patton, Council coordinator for the 46 Yukon Kuskokwim Delta Subsistence Regional Advisory 47 Council. 48 49 MR. KRON: Tom Kron with OSM. And I'm 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 146

1 glad everybody got here safely. 2 3 MR. MASCHMANN: Gerald Maschmann with 4 the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Fairbanks. 5 6 MS. LAVINE: Robbin LaVine, 7 anthropologist with the Office of Subsistence 8 Management. 9

10 MS. WORKER: Good morning. I'm Suzanne 11 Worker with the Office of Subsistence Management. 12 13 MR. HARRIS: Good morning. Frank 14 Harris, fisheries biologist, OSM. 15 16 MR. MATHEWS: Vince Mathews, U.S. Fish 17 and Wildlife Service out of Fairbanks. 18 19 MR. ORR: John Orr with AVCP Natural 20 Resources. 21 22 MR. WEBBER: Aaron Webber, U.S. Fish 23 and Wildlife Service here in Bethel. 24 25 MR. JONES: Patrick Jones, Alaska 26 Department of Fish and Game. 27 28 MS. JONES: Paige Jones with AVCP, 29 Natural Resources. 30 31 MR. CHARLES: Ben Charles with the 32 Inuit Circumpolar Council. 33 34 MR. TULIK: Chris Tulik, U.S. Fish and 35 Wildlife Service with Yukon Delta National Wildlife 36 Refuge. 37 38 MS. MCARTHUR: AnnaRose McArthur, KYUK. 39 40 MS. MATTHIAS: Mary Matthias, Natural 41 Resource Director for ONC. 42 43 MS. ERIK: Charlene Erik, KRITFC. 44 45 MR. LEKANDER: Robert Lekander with ONC, 46 also with the Kuskokwim River InterTribal Fisheries. 47 48 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: And we'll go to 49 our court recorder, Ms. Tina. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 147

1 REPORTER: My name's Tina, I'm the 2 court reporter for the Council. 3 4 MS. EVAN: Sophie Evan, Interpreter. 5 6 MR. SAMSON: Pat Samson, Translator. 7 8 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, all, 9 folks for being here. I greatly appreciate it.

10 11 Can we get those on line to introduce 12 yourself as well. 13 14 MR. KAMEROFF: Gerald Kameroff, 15 Kalskag, Kuskokwim River InterTribal Fish Commission. 16 17 Thank you. 18 19 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Good morning. 20 21 MS. JALLEN: Deena Jallen, Alaska 22 Department of Fish and Game, Yukon River summer season 23 assistant manager. 24 25 (Teleconference interference - 26 participants not muted) 27 28 MR. ESTENSEN: Good morning, Madame 29 Chair. This is Jeff Estensen with the Alaska Department 30 of Fish and Game here in Fairbanks. I'm the Yukon area 31 fall season manager for CommFish. 32 33 MR. ALSTROM: Good morning. This is 34 Bill Alstrom Lower Yukon, Fishery Advisory, and also 35 Yukon River Drainage Fisheries Association Chairman. 36 37 MR. BURCH: Yeah, this is Mark Burch 38 from the Department of Fish and Game in Palmer. 39 40 MR. JENKINS: Good morning. Wayne 41 Jenkins, Director, Yukon River Drainage Fisheries 42 Association. 43 44 MS. PELTOLA: Good morning. This is 45 Mary Peltola with the Kuskokwim River InterTribal Fish 46 Commission. 47 48 MR. ADERMAN: Andy Aderman with Togiak 49 National Wildlife Refuge, Dillingham. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 148

1 MS. ESQUIBLE: Janessa Esquible with 2 Orutsararmiut Native Council in Bethel. 3 4 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right, thank 5 you so much for all those of you that have joined us. 6 I want to have a couple of -- we have a couple of 7 announcements. When you are on teleconference please 8 star six to mute your phone and when you're using your 9 cell phone there's a little mic button, go ahead and

10 press that to mute and unmute. And also if you're here 11 and you need translating equipment, our translating 12 equipment is back there, and you need to be on Channel 13 1 for it to work. Also if there's anything you guys 14 would like to talk about or want to have -- we have 15 public testimony every morning. There's these blue 16 cards and Eva's holding it up, go ahead and fill those 17 out and bring them forth to Eva. 18 19 So with our agenda, we're going to go 20 with the agenda as it was originally scheduled and 21 we're going to go through and during a review we'll go 22 through with all of us and see if there's anything you 23 guys wanted to specifically go over or if you guys 24 wanted to have more in detail. We did cover a lot of 25 things on our agenda in informational-wise as we were 26 trying to conduct yesterday's informational part of the 27 meeting. So if there's anything you guys want to have 28 further more to talk about or more interest in talking 29 about, we can definitely go over those subjects again. 30 31 Eva, did you want to go into public 32 tribal comments now or did you want to go ahead and go 33 into review and adopt the agenda. 34 35 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair. Yes, if we 36 can proceed with the review of the agenda and adopt the 37 agenda and then we'll proceed from there. 38 39 Thank you. 40 41 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Did you want me 42 to go through it by line item? 43 44 MS. PATTON: Sure, or I can help walk 45 through with the Council as well, whichever you prefer. 46 47 So we might take just a little bit of 48 time since the majority of our Council members just 49 arrived last night, to walk through the agenda and let 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 149

1 the Council members know which topics that we had 2 covered yesterday in our informational updates so if 3 they have any questions we can follow up on that. 4 5 I might be able to provide a little 6 context for the Council in terms of what's on the 7 agenda for our primary action items for the Council. 8 9 I do want to bring to the Council's

10 attention that we will have service awards this 11 afternoon and a potluck for the Council this evening in 12 honor of our longtime Council members James Charles and 13 Charlie Brown. They both have decided to retire from 14 the Council after this meeting and live a good 15 subsistence way of life with their grandchildren. So 16 that would be this evening. 17 18 And then old business, we have wildlife 19 closure reviews. And I know some time has passed, the 20 Council actually reviewed these at your previous 21 meeting but because the Board is not taking action 22 until April, we're just having a brief review kind of 23 to refresh the Council's memory of those closure 24 reviews. So that's more of a brief update. 25 26 And then we do have a report for the 27 Council, it's called the .805(c) report, which is an 28 information update on the Federal Subsistence Board 29 actions from the previous meeting, so that was their 30 last spring meeting in April, when they took action on 31 fisheries proposals. And that's part of ANILCA, is for 32 the Board to report back to the Council on the actions 33 that they took, and where they aligned with the 34 Council's recommendations or where they differed. And 35 so that's an update for the Council. 36 37 The main business of the day, under new 38 business, is the wildlife proposals. We do try to 39 provide informational updates on wildlife population 40 information prior to the discussion of each of those 41 proposals, and then our Staff will provide an overview 42 of each of the wildlife proposals that were submitted, 43 and then we walk through -- we walk through a process 44 on the back of your cards where we hear recommendations 45 from others and the Council deliberates and takes 46 formal action on their recommendation for those 47 proposals. And they are broken down into regional 48 proposals, which are for Unit 18, and then crossover 49 proposals which are for units outside of Unit 18, but 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 150

1 there's C&T determinations for those areas and we have 2 one statewide proposal. 3 4 And then we do have a discussion on the 5 Fisheries Resource Monitoring Program. That is a 6 review of the projects that are being proposed for 7 funding for this year, and Council discussion on that 8 and any feedback on that. 9

10 Then another action item from the 11 Council is identifying issues for your fiscal year 2019 12 annual report. So we keep track as we're discussing 13 through the meeting, which issues that are of concern 14 to the Council that you'd like to bring to the Board's 15 attention and we'll get your feedback at that time and 16 also throughout the meeting. 17 18 (Teleconference interference - 19 participants not muted) 20 21 MS. PATTON: And then we have agency 22 reports, and this is what we covered a lot of 23 yesterday, for the Council. So if there's any 24 information here that you'd like to request updates on, 25 if you weren't here to hear them yesterday please do 26 let us know. 27 28 So we did have ONC, the Orutsararmiut 29 Native Council, both their natural resources program 30 and their partners program. We had some wonderful 31 students participating here with us yesterday. So we 32 had that update yesterday. 33 34 And we did have updates from the 35 Kuskokwim River InterTribal Fish Commission. We had 36 several representatives to discuss that yesterday. 37 38 We had the Yukon River Drainage 39 Fisheries Association yesterday, updates on the Yukon 40 River. We did have James Landlord with us for that, 41 which was wonderful you were here for Yukon River 42 discussions. 43 44 And we had the Yukon River salmon 45 season summary discussions yesterday, also after James 46 Landlord was able to join us. 47 48 And then we did cover the Kuskokwim 49 River salmon season summary. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 151

1 Yukon Delta National Wildlife Refuge 2 updates. 3 4 And also the Togiak National Wildlife 5 Refuge updates. 6 7 And we do have handouts that were 8 provided for each of the Council members so we'll make 9 sure that you get all those informational handouts from

10 those presentations as well. 11 12 So we covered all of those. 13 14 We do have somebody available from the 15 Migratory Birds program -- available by teleconference, 16 and we haven't covered that one yet. 17 18 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Eva. 19 20 MS. PATTON: Yeah. Yes. 21 22 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Can I just bother 23 you for a moment. 24 25 MS. PATTON: Sure. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: There's issues 28 with our teleconference line and people can't hear. 29 30 MS. PATTON: Okay. 31 32 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: So maybe we can 33 just have a moment and let her fix the phone line. I 34 just got a couple text messages saying they can't hear 35 us. 36 37 MR. ONEY: Yes, good morning, Madame 38 Chair. Raymond Oney here for the record on line. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Ray's here. 41 42 MS. PATTON: Good morning, Ray. 43 44 MR. ONEY: Good morning, everyone. 45 46 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Good morning, 47 Ray. I'm glad you're able to make it in today, well, 48 teleconference-wise. We miss you being here in person. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 152

1 MR. ONEY: I don't know how long I'll 2 be here but I'm here for now. 3 4 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Quyana. 5 For those of you on line, can you please start six to 6 mute your phones. Again, star six to mute your phones 7 or press the little mic button on your cell phone. 8 We're getting some background noise and people are 9 unable to hear the discussion here at the RAC meeting.

10 11 It would be greatly appreciate, thank 12 you. 13 14 Were you able to fix the line. 15 16 REPORTER: Yes. 17 18 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Go 19 ahead, Eva, I apologize for the disruption. 20 21 MS. PATTON: Thank you, Madame Chair. 22 And, again, welcome to our Council member Ray Oney, for 23 joining us on teleconference. Wonderful you can join 24 us, we recognize it's really challenging so I really 25 appreciate your efforts. And good to have your input. 26 27 So back to the agenda. 28 29 So we have covered most of the agency 30 reports. 31 32 Migratory Birds is available by 33 teleconference, if we have an opportunity to get to 34 that. 35 36 We do have, under ADF&G, Division of 37 Subsistence. They have some reports on their Kuskokwim 38 River FRMP projects. 39 40 The Division of Wildlife Conservation. 41 So we covered some updates yesterday that the Council 42 had requested on ptarmigan and other discussion with 43 the students. We have Pat here for any additional 44 informational updates on wildlife management from the 45 State side. 46 47 We do have on the agenda Alaska Board 48 of Game proposals. And I know the Council's interested 49 in weighing in on Board of Game proposals. We have to 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 153

1 get through all of our, the Council's primary actions, 2 which are addressing the Federal subsistence wildlife 3 proposals, the FRMP, your annual report to the Board, 4 so we do have to cover -- make sure we have time to 5 cover all of the Council's primary duties and action 6 items. So if time allows at the end of the meeting to 7 address Board of Game proposals, we can get to that as 8 well. 9

10 We do not have -- actually North 11 Pacific Fisheries Management Council, the timing did 12 not work out for this meeting. So I know that was of 13 interest to the Council and we're going to work with 14 them for your February meeting to present. 15 16 BLM did present yesterday as well, 17 updates on their EIS process for the Western Bering Sea 18 management plan. 19 20 And then last, but not least, would be 21 the OSM report. And we have a brief report that we 22 always leave for the last part of the meeting. 23 24 And then we do have -- we also have 25 Staff from the Association of Village Council 26 Presidents, and we did not get to their report 27 yesterday. 28 29 And we did not get to the Native 30 Village of Napaimute report yesterday. Dan Gillikin 31 from Native Village of Napaimute was going to try to 32 call in to speak to their FRMP projects and other 33 fisheries work that they're involved in, and programs 34 through Native Village of Napaimute. 35 36 So we do have just several of the 37 agency reports left, which we would hope to get to by 38 the end of the day today after the Council's 39 deliberations on wildlife proposals and other action 40 items. 41 42 I do want to touch base with our 43 Council members here who joined us yesterday, we also 44 had an update on the Federal Subsistence Board's action 45 on the Mulchatna Caribou Herd, and Suzanne Worker was 46 on that teleconference and could provide a brief update 47 to Council members on those actions as well. 48 49 So if there's any updates that Council 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 154

1 members who came in yesterday evening would like to 2 have that we've mentioned here, please do let us know 3 and we can try to circle back around to address those 4 questions and we'll make sure that you get the 5 informational handouts as well from those 6 presentations. 7 8 Thank you, Madame Chair. 9

10 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 11 I kind of feel like we should just go ahead and go 12 through even -- they didn't -- they gave their 13 informational, maybe a quick summary over what they 14 discussed, as we go through the agenda, just so that 15 our Council knows what happened and what was discussed 16 yesterday. It would be fair that you guys know what 17 was discussed during that time. Maybe a quick summary 18 of what we went through, as we're going through the 19 topics, and agenda items. 20 21 Would that be okay with you guys? 22 23 MR. SLATS: I concur. 24 25 MR. ANDREW: You mean on the minutes? 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yeah, of our 28 agenda, so that you guys know what we talked about that 29 we already -- yeah, agenda only. 30 31 MR. ANDREW: I thought you were going to 32 do your minutes first. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: No, we're still 35 on the agenda. 36 37 MR. ANDREW: The agenda? 38 39 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yeah, just with 40 the agenda, that's what we're going on right now. 41 42 So, yeah? 43 44 (Council nods affirmatively) 45 46 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Eva, would 47 that be okay, if we can do that? 48 49 MS. PATTON: So, Madame Chair, just to 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 155

1 clarify you were wanting a little bit more detail 2 provided for the Council at this time? 3 4 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: No, when we're 5 going through the agenda and we come across an item 6 that we've already discussed, we'll have them do just a 7 quick summary of what we discussed, like key highlight 8 points. And if they have any questions they can go 9 into detail but.....

10 11 MS. PATTON: Absolutely. 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: .....something 14 quick. 15 16 MS. PATTON: Yes, absolutely. 17 18 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 19 20 MS. PATTON: And so most of what we 21 covered was at the tail end of your agenda but we will 22 definitely revisit that to let everybody know when we 23 get to that, what was discussed yesterday, so if you 24 have any further questions at that time we can cover it 25 again. 26 27 Thank you. 28 29 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. So I guess 30 we're going to -- did you guys want to -- if you guys 31 are okay with the agenda as is, we'll just summarize as 32 we're going through certain stuff, do you guys want to 33 do a motion to accept our agenda as is. 34 35 MR. ANDREW: Madame Chair. I move that 36 we accept the agenda with modifications or changes, as 37 is. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yes. So what 40 we'll do is..... 41 42 MR. ANDREW: As is. 43 44 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: .....as we come 45 across topics that we've already discussed, someone 46 will -- or if the organizations are still here we'll do 47 a quick summary and talk about the key points of what 48 they discussed yesterday. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 156

1 MR. ANDREW: Yeah. I'll go for as is. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yeah. 4 5 MR. ANDREW: Thank you. 6 7 MR. SLATS: Madame Chair. I second 8 John's motion. 9

10 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Motion made by 11 John to accept the agenda as is and the stuff we talked 12 about with summary and key points for stuff that we've 13 already talked about, and a second by Mr. Slats. 14 15 Any further comments or questions at 16 this time. 17 18 (No comments) 19 20 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Hearing and 21 seeing none, all those in favor say aye. 22 23 IN UNISON: Aye. 24 25 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All those 26 opposed, same sign. 27 28 (No opposing votes) 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Agenda has been 31 adopted. 32 33 Moving on to review and approval of 34 previous meeting minutes. Did any of you have any 35 changes to the meeting minutes or any changes to our 36 last meeting minutes. 37 38 Go ahead, Mr. Landlord. 39 40 MR. LANDLORD: Yes, we need to make a 41 motion to approve the minutes. I make a motion to 42 approve the March 12 to 13, 2019 minutes. 43 44 MR. CHARLES: I second the motion. 45 46 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Motion made by 47 Landlord, second by Mr. Charles. 48 49 Any further discussion or comments. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 157

1 MR. LANDLORD: Madame Chair. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead. 4 5 MR. LANDLORD: On Page 5, Mary Peltola, 6 Executive Director Kuskokwim River InterTribal Fish 7 Commission. 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Uh-huh.

10 11 MR. LANDLORD: And also Jonathan 12 Samuelson. Did both of them make a report or just one? 13 14 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: For our last 15 meeting they were on our agenda and Mary was here to 16 discuss the Fish Commission's report and I believe 17 that's on Page -- their report is..... 18 19 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 20 21 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Eva. 22 Thank you. 23 24 MS. PATTON: On Page 17. 25 26 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 27 28 MS. PATTON: Yes. And that's the 29 beginning of agency reports. There is a summary of 30 each of the agencies that presented to the Council. 31 32 Thank you. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 35 36 MR. LANDLORD: Both of them work for 37 Kuskokwim River InterTribal Fish Commission? 38 39 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: And also 40 Jonathan's on the Fish Commission as a Fish Commission 41 member. 42 43 MR. LANDLORD: Okay. Thank you. 44 45 (Pause) 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Eva, Janessa's 48 name is spelled wrong on Page 6, it's J-A-N-E-S-S-A. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 158

1 MS. PATTON: Page 6, thank you, Madame 2 Chair. 3 4 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Uh-huh. 5 6 MS. PATTON: I was just looking at Page 7 17 and I thought oh I spelled it right, but not quite. 8 9 (Laughter)

10 11 MS. PATTON: Okay. So Page 6. Great, 12 thank you, I will make that correction. 13 14 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Anyone else have 15 comments -- go ahead, Mr. Andrew. 16 17 MR. ANDREW: Madame Chair. This is 18 John Andrew, Kwethluk. On Page 18 and 19 on the last 19 one on Yukon River Drainage Fisheries Association, 20 Catherine Moncrieff's, her name is spelled with K, and 21 then on the second paragraph her first name is spelled 22 with a C. And if you go through the whole minutes you 23 see acronyms all over. They need to be spelled out, 24 acronyms. 25 26 Thank you. 27 28 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Would you be able 29 to decompress those acronyms. 30 31 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 32 Yes, thank you. And, often, typically what we do, 33 since acronyms are used quite frequently, is often 34 we'll spell them out at the beginning of the document 35 and then abbreviate them throughout the rest of the 36 document. But if it's helpful to the Council to have 37 it spelled out in full in your minutes then I will do 38 that throughout the document. I know there's many, 39 many acronyms so it's hard to keep track of. 40 41 Thank you. So I'll make that 42 correction to Catherine's spelling. I always try to 43 spell how my grandmother spells her name, so that's 44 where the change comes in there. 45 46 And we will put the full spelling of 47 the abbreviations for the Council's review. 48 49 Thank you. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 159

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Anything else. 2 3 (No comments) 4 5 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do you guys have 6 anything else you guys want to change or see anything 7 else that needs to be fixed. 8 9 (No comments)

10 11 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Good then. 12 13 If there's no further -- oh, go ahead 14 Mr. Maxie. 15 16 MR. MAXIE: Madame Chair. 17 18 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead. 19 20 MR. MAXIE: On the last page of 22, the 21 only item, one, two, three, fourth one, the Council 22 discussed there's no migratory birds and asked the 23 number of dead common murres that were washing up along 24 the coast and requested the issue on the agenda for the 25 next Council meeting. Has that happened? 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Eva. 28 29 MS. PATTON: Thank you, Madame Chair 30 and Council. Yes, we do have Robb Kaler who works with 31 the Migratory Birds Department with Fish and Wildlife 32 who's available on teleconference to join us and we 33 have some handouts on that as well. So hopefully we'll 34 get to that maybe at the end of the day today, or if 35 we're able to go in to tomorrow. So we will have that 36 report for the Council. 37 38 Thank you. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any further 41 corrections or additions or deletions with the meeting 42 minutes. 43 44 (No comments) 45 46 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Good. 47 48 MR. ANDREW: There's already a motion 49 and a second. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 160

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yeah. 2 3 MR. ANDREW: Call for question. 4 5 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. 6 Questions been called. All those in favor say aye. 7 8 IN UNISON: Aye. 9

10 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All those 11 opposed, same sign. 12 13 (No opposing votes) 14 15 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: We approved our 16 previous meeting minutes. 17 18 I guess we'll go into our Council 19 reports. If you guys would like to add anything, we'll 20 start from Mr. Maxie, that side this time. 21 22 MR. MAXIE: Madame Chair. Overall 23 everything's been good with that 2019 subsistence 24 season along with the moose season. Very grateful. 25 And I seen people being satisfied with smiling faces 26 over last years. 27 28 Thank you, very much. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Landlord. 31 32 MR. LANDLORD: This fall there was some 33 complaints, I think with a guide hunters right by 34 Mountain Village in a place they call TenMile. There's 35 one person that went hunting there this fall and I 36 don't know where the guides were, but they mentioned 37 Renfrow, there's one person that went hunting there 38 from Mountain Village and they said a moose, maybe more 39 than one moose that had his head chopped off but the 40 body was there, the rest of the meat was there. I 41 didn't confirm it, but there was some talk at the 42 office, the tribal office, that they saw a moose with 43 no head, and maybe there were more, I'm not sure. 44 45 That's all I have. 46 47 Thank you. 48 49 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 161

1 Landlord. 2 3 Mr. Andrew. 4 5 MR. ANDREW: Thank you, Madame Chair. 6 It's John Andrew from Kwethluk. Even though some of 7 the members brought up the issue of salmon dying off 8 this past summer I had my own personal experience. 9

10 I was boating from my fish camp, my 11 fish camp between here and Kwethluk, from our village, 12 almost nine miles, first part of July the temperatures 13 were ranging from 80 to 90, and my neighbors were 14 complaining about fish, salmon floating down the 15 Kuskokwim River and then on the Kwethluk River. What I 16 saw was on a short stretch between my fish camp to the 17 village, I saw well over 10 floaters. Most of them I 18 think were red salmon, and red salmon and a few 19 chinook. Because you can tell by the size and shape. 20 And during that time, maybe the second day I went up 21 around 15 or 17 miles up river on the Kwethluk and saw 22 the same story. There were a lot of red salmon 23 floating and a few chinook dying off. And then we 24 checked the water and it was well above 70. There was 25 a massive die-off and I hear that from up river, and 26 down river, and even on the Yukon side and the coastal 27 area. 28 29 And the other issue was the water was 30 too low. The water was too low. And the beaver dams 31 were high, some of them you couldn't go into the 32 spawning creeks or come out from -- the ones that dying 33 up river from those beaver dams were little whitefish 34 and maybe humpback and broad, a lot of dead floating 35 whitefish and the salmon couldn't go, the beaver dams 36 -- because the water was very, very low. That was one 37 big major issue all summer in the latter part of June, 38 and early July, well into middle of September. When 39 the water was too low and warm, the fish numbers were 40 low. We noticed that after the rainy season started the 41 fish were -- the chums and reds were coming in late. I 42 was catching quite a few coho by end of August. 43 They're usually gone by the third week of August and in 44 September I was catching a lot of silvers because by 45 the end of August they're usually further up river but 46 they were -- because of two things -- there was low 47 water and the water was too warm and there was die-off 48 from that warm water. The biologist was saying they 49 were dying of heart attacks. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 162

1 Then during moose season, water was 2 really, really low. A lot of the boys were complaining 3 they couldn't get to their regular hunting areas. The 4 year before the water was too high and flooded out 5 everywhere. This year it was the other way around, 6 hardly no water, you couldn't get back into the creeks 7 and lakes and hidden waters. Only the people that had 8 jet units were able to go further up. That low water 9 was really hurting us. Both ways. Because the further

10 you go up there's a lot of gravel bars up towards the 11 foothills, you burn up two or three props, they're 12 pretty expensive, some of them are well over 300 bucks 13 apiece. Some guys were saying they ruined two or three 14 props trying to make it up to the hunting grounds. 15 16 Because I've been asking for later 17 moose season because the last few years it's been 18 really bad, too warm. When it's really warm out there, 19 or bulls are slow to move out to the open, only the 20 young ones that are along the river, the bigger bulls 21 wait for the air to chill off and then they start 22 moving around. 23 24 Thank you, Madame Chair. 25 26 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 27 Andrew. 28 29 Mr. Slats, your Council member report. 30 31 MR. SLATS: Thank you, Madame Chair. 32 As I did last year, I got my introduction mixed up with 33 my Council report. 34 35 (Laughter) 36 37 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: If you have 38 anything more. 39 40 MR. SLATS: Please except my 41 introduction as my Council report. 42 43 Thank you. 44 45 (Laughter) 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 48 Slats. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 163

1 James. 2 3 MR. CHARLES: Thank you, Madame Chair. 4 I am James Charles from Tuntutuliak. But I'm like 5 John, I worry about fish because we work on fish all 6 year, even in the wintertime. Like the floaters, dead 7 salmon floaters. When I heard about it I called Fish 8 and Game right away and they tell me it was the water 9 temperature that killed a lot of salmon on the river.

10 11 And we have tidal action at 12 Tuntutuliak, tide comes in and out, but like four feet 13 or maybe higher in some areas, and when we have south 14 winds it's usually higher tides come in. 15 16 But I worry about people up river too. 17 Because they get their salmon later than us at the 18 mouth. And I hope -- I was hoping that everybody who's 19 fishing gets salmon for their use at home. Because I 20 want to share the resource with everybody. 21 22 Thank you. 23 24 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Quyana, Mr. 25 Charles. 26 27 Mr. Brown. 28 29 MR. BROWN: My name's Charlie Brown, 30 they mostly call me by Charlie Brown. My official name 31 is William Brown. William Charlie Brown. I'm going to 32 speak in my own language. 33 34 (In Yup'ik) 35 36 INTERPRETER: This past summer I went 37 down to the Eek River to see -- when I heard reports if 38 there were salmon dying and floating on the river so I 39 took a trip and I went down to the Kuskokwim River and 40 I did see quite a few dead salmon and it was a pretty 41 sad sight to see. Because we've been always told to 42 conserve our salmon and they used to tell us not to 43 throw any trash or anything like that into the river -- 44 into the waters, and that's what we grew up with so it 45 was pretty sad to see and we were told not to put any 46 oil or any debris into the river. 47 48 I know it isn't from debris or whatever 49 that we threw in the river, but I was really wondering 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 164

1 what was the exact cause of the die-off of the salmon 2 on the Kuskokwim. And for us that live -- depend on 3 the salmon for our subsistence it was a pretty sad 4 sight to see and -- but I know our forefathers way 5 before the regulations came into place here, our 6 forefathers were really more vigilant than the Fish and 7 Game restrictions were because it was every day that 8 they implored us to conserve our salmon and to handle 9 our food with care. And it was always with the future

10 in mind that they were always imploring us how to take 11 care of our -- not just when we are gathering them but 12 how we store them, how we eat them, how we process 13 them, and I know that they were pretty vigilant in 14 telling us to do these things every single day. And so 15 they were always telling us that the big man in the sky 16 was always watching how we are, disrespecting or 17 respecting the land and the water. And so if we -- and 18 there's some repercussions for not respecting the land 19 and with the -- I'm really lucky. 20 21 All the life in the waters will 22 probably be affected, not just the fish but the algae 23 and the microorganisms or the krill and everything else 24 that is in the water, and the food chain will probably 25 be affected so it's just not the salmon that are being 26 affected but they were always imploring us to not put 27 any debris or anything like that into the water, to 28 keep it clean, especially in the fall time when there 29 are tidal waves, we were told that the natural sea was 30 cleaning up the debris from the beaches and what not, 31 to clean it and get ready for next year, for next 32 season. 33 34 And so I know -- though stagnant water 35 starts to smell bad and so when the fish die the water 36 becomes stagnant and you can smell it and so the tidal 37 action in the fall time, the fall storms would come and 38 wash all these dead fish, all the debris out from the 39 beaches and from the rivers and renew itself and so I 40 really did believe in what they were telling us. 41 42 And I would follow their teachings and 43 what they were telling us to do. 44 45 And I know when I was a child we used 46 to go out to the fish camps and the heat was 47 unbearable. And even with the unbearable weather that 48 we had we had never had any die-offs in the waters at 49 all. And I know that's because we totally depend on 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 165

1 the fish. 2 3 And so in the fall when I went out to 4 the bay to see for myself, the salmon die-off, it was 5 not a pretty sight to see and so it was just 6 heartbreaking to see all that and I know that -- when I 7 think about this I know in the lower -- the tropical 8 climates, I know there's not freeze, I know there's a 9 tsunami in Japan and I know that the nuclear powerplant

10 was washed -- the radioactivity was washed into the sea 11 there and with that, I really am thinking if there's a 12 correlation between the Fukushima waterplant -- the 13 nuclear accident and the source of the Bering Sea and 14 so I know Okay. when I asked about this they told me 15 that the radioactive material did not reach our shores 16 but I'm not really totally convinced with that. 17 There's -- it's probably affecting the food chain along 18 the way. And so if it keeps happening I know that the 19 food chain is going to be affected, depleted and we may 20 not have any fish. 21 22 And it's just not for myself that I'm 23 thinking about that -- I know our future generation -- 24 I'm thinking about the future generation because I 25 would not want them to have any salmon at all because 26 if there are no food, subsistence or otherwise for 27 them, what is going to become of them and so especially 28 our children. Because I know that they are -- they 29 know that our subsistence food and they are always 30 watching us take care of these, and so I really want 31 our -- my future generation to have these foods 32 available to them. And I know that Mr. Baxter used to 33 tell us in the meetings back in Quin -- when we used to 34 have fish camps at Quinhagak and when Lynn Baxter was 35 the biologist here, he told us of a story that the -- 36 in the Atlantic Ocean that there used to be king salmon 37 in New England, and so with the Atlantic Ocean, he was 38 telling us that -- that there were no salmon in the 39 Atlantic Ocean anyway, and after that he said that he 40 -- he said I hope it does not happen in Alaska as the 41 Atlantic Ocean has no salmon -- Native salmon anymore. 42 And so they used to have commercial salmon fishing in 43 the Atlantic Ocean. 44 45 So back in the day here we used to have 46 commercial salmon and when they stopped their 47 commercial salmon watch dogs, the -- in the Atlantic 48 Ocean the fishermen didn't have any overseers so it was 49 a free for all and so there's a lot of depleting of the 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 166

1 stocks, the salmon stocks and right now they just 2 completely depleted those stocks and there's no 3 commercial fishing in the Atlantic Ocean. And I know 4 that is always on the back of my mind what Mr. Baxter 5 said that he hopes that that same fate does not await 6 the Pacific Ocean. And all the little fish, he 7 implored that we should not over deplete any of the 8 stocks, whether they be salmon or anything like that. 9

10 And so there's a big cause and effect 11 and I know when we were going to grow reindeer herds 12 back in the day when we were going to start -- I'm 13 sorry -- about the moose -- when we had a moratorium 14 about the moose. I know when we went through it it was 15 really pretty hard pill to swallow for us, all these 16 people wanted moose but we went ahead with the 17 moratorium but after the four years moratorium we 18 started to realize that the moose population started 19 coming back and a lot of the people that used to bad 20 mouth us when we first imposed the moratorium, they 21 came back and they told us that they were sorry for 22 opposing the moratorium but they come up and apologize 23 and they have thanked us for pushing ahead with the 24 moratorium on the moose. And I know at that time when 25 they were really needling us about following whoever on 26 the moratorium, they really did belittle us but those 27 were dark times with the moratorium, but I -- I know 28 when they used to attack us publicly and personally it 29 wasn't a very good feeling for us but with that we just 30 went ahead and plodding on with those. And you can see 31 now the fruits of those labors. 32 33 And the children now are procuring 34 moose. And I know that in the newspapers I see young 35 boys, young children with the moose that they harvested 36 on the local newspaper and that's pretty -- makes me 37 happy and I'm thankful that we went through with the 38 moratorium. 39 40 And so right now if we keep working 41 together and not give up the partnerships that we have, 42 I know that we can work together and so if we work 43 together and acknowledge each others work and support 44 and so -- and so I was really thankful this past summer 45 that every time that we are called to meetings, I would 46 tell people that we are very thankful for this past 47 salmon season. Our salmon catch was just perfect this 48 summer. And so in June it was pretty dry weather so it 49 wasn't humid when we were putting up fish to dry and so 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 167

1 I was really happy that we had a good season. And for 2 that I am thankful. 3 4 And I am also wanting to repeat the 5 same summer that we had, if we could just keep working 6 together and help each other I think we can achieve the 7 same thing that we went through last summer if we keep 8 working on the relationships that we have built. And I 9 really wanted to thank all of -- each and every single

10 one of you, regarding this issue. Especially those 11 that are working toward this and -- because the salmon 12 stock is very important for us because that's all I've 13 ever known in our communities is the salmon. That is 14 our main staple to our diet. 15 16 And I really want to go back to see why 17 all the salmon were dying off on the waters. 18 19 Thank you, very much. 20 21 MR. BROWN: Quyana. 22 23 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 24 Brown. 25 26 Mr. Peter. 27 28 MR. PETER: Yeah, my name is Phillip 29 Peter. My report will be short. 30 31 I want to thank the Board and the Staff 32 and Kuskokwim River InterTribal Fish Commission and the 33 working group and also State workers. 34 35 We're facing -- you know, sometimes I 36 wonder we're facing two governments in our community. 37 One is Federal and the other one is State. But finally 38 the State is willing to recognize us as a sovereign 39 people of Alaska. We're sovereign. We have a right to 40 negotiate the Federal government and the State 41 government. I hope we're heading that way, working 42 together. We want to work together with the State and 43 Federal government employees, even the President of the 44 United States. 45 46 We're people. 47 48 We've been here for time immemorial. 49 We're alive. We are alive. We are alive because of 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 168

1 our mom and dad and also grandmother, grandfather, 2 uncle, great uncle and so forth. 3 4 I am a commercial fisherman in this 5 river and also a subsistence fisherman and I know my 6 river. All of us know our river. Because go to it. 7 We live to it. We fish for it. We die for it. 8 9 In this changing society. We're living

10 in a changing society. The world is changing. 11 Everything is changing. Especially the regulations. 12 13 Long time ago even the Federal 14 controlled both Yukon and Kuskokwim for subsistence, 15 both of them were controlling us. They let us fish for 16 subsistence. They let us fish for subsistence. No 17 time to open, no time to close. That's how the Federal 18 government treat us. Even the State of Alaska treat us 19 like that. No time limit for subsistence. No time 20 limit for subsistence. But us fishermen control how 21 much we're going to get. That fish for -- you know, we 22 got the limit. My wife is the boss, I'm the fisherman. 23 When my wife told me to stop, I stopped. Just like 24 we're trying to -- even though our mind as a fisherman 25 want to go down to fish, it's closed down in the river, 26 we can't get nothing. When the State and the Federal 27 -- when the Federal and State and working group, and 28 InterTribal Fish Commission tell us to set net that 29 day, that hour, to pull them off the -- where we set 30 our net. It's not supposed to be like that. It was 31 not supposed to be like that. 32 33 It look like they try to scare us. 34 Look from the mouth of the river, if you go all the way 35 up to the Nikolai, there used to be a lot of fish 36 camps, now there's only a few, only a few. In my 37 community there used to be 50 -- 50 -- when I count 38 them -- fish camps -- now there's 10 or 15 fish camps. 39 Because they're scared. They're -- they're scared to 40 go out when it's closed. And some complaining to me 41 when they go out on the closed season, they complain to 42 me, when Fish and Wildlife came and they stop and took 43 away our gear, gear and everything and besides that 44 they fined them. And one told me that he didn't 45 receive any Permanent Fund Dividend, that Permanent 46 Fund Dividend goes to his fine. I'm telling you guys 47 the truth. 48 49 And sometimes I wonder who's going to 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 169

1 be a good leader in our region who's -- that's not 2 afraid of anything. Our elders don't afraid of 3 anything. Right now when they're alive I don't think 4 -- we will not hear one person say the river is closed 5 for subsistence. They'll say go down and fish. 6 7 I am going to tell you the example, the 8 true story. 9

10 There used to be a lot of muskrats in 11 springtime, everybody hunts the muskrats in springtime, 12 but when we stopped hunting them they disappearing, 13 there's nothing in my community, in my backyard. There 14 used to be a lot of foxes and now we stopped hunting 15 them, I don't see any -- I don't hardly see a fox in 16 the tundra. I hear goodnews this month -- I hear good 17 news from the Fish and Wildlife and Fish and Game told 18 me that we got pretty good escapement on chinooks this 19 year and I believed them because I trust them. When we 20 hunt those chinooks they'll be swimming the rest of our 21 lives. If we put them on the restrictions they'll be 22 gone just like muskrats and foxes and minks. That's 23 why our elders used to tell us keep hunting, keep 24 hunting, but you got the limit. There's no one -- our 25 young ones in my community, in our community, no one is 26 trapping for minks, beavers, the tundra is empty. The 27 tundra is empty. I'm telling you the truth. 28 29 No people living off the land. 30 31 Because the Federal government gave us 32 money. I've been working all my life. I supported 33 myself. I supported my wife and kids and my 34 granddaughters, grandkids, my mom and dad, now days 35 things are changing. Some parents are controlled by 36 their children. Just like a king. No respect. No 37 respect. 38 39 Because we, as a people, we need to 40 work together. 41 42 I never forget that one elder from 43 Barrow, Inupiaq, when he was testifying in front of the 44 Federal and State government and he said, hunger has no 45 law. And I believe that. Hunger has no law. And I 46 believe that. The hunger is coming. 47 48 I went about two miles above the slough 49 for moose hunting this fall to that creek. When I went 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 170

1 in there there's a beaver dam, we bust that beaver dam, 2 and the second one, when we coming my son and -- my 3 brother-in-law, Phillip, look behind the beaver dam, 4 and I look, those fish start jumping like that and I 5 recognize them right away, those are sockeye. Those 6 are sockeye. I don't know how many of them -- the 7 creek is bubbling, bubbling. And I think about my 8 grandmother, those fish, they go in -- not to spawn, 9 but to die off because the starvation is coming.

10 That's why I'm not trying to scare no one, that's how 11 he telling me. 12 13 (In Yup'ik) 14 15 INTERPRETER: My grandmother used to 16 tell me that, and I've seen with my own eyes while I 17 was moose hunting they were at a strange creek, the 18 sockeye were there. Because of my grandmother, the 19 world prepares for starvation. So I saw all of that -- 20 those sockeye in a strange creek where they normally 21 swim up. 22 23 Thank you. 24 25 MR. PETER: Quyana. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Quyana, Phillip. 28 29 Ray Oney, do we still have you on line. 30 Would you be able to give your Council report. 31 32 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair, good morning. 33 Thank you. First of all I want to congratulate James 34 Charles and William Brown for their service to this 35 organization. I may not be there to help celebrate you 36 or see them before they leave this organization. It's 37 my understanding that this is their last participation 38 as Council members to the YK RAC. So I want to 39 congratulate them for their long service and the 40 dedication to the people that they advocate for and all 41 the concerns and all the things that they've brought 42 out throughout the years. 43 44 When I first participated in the YK 45 RAC, I was appointed in 2001 and that's how I first got 46 to meet William and James Charles was a meeting there 47 in Anchorage, and that was one of the meetings that I 48 really enjoyed because of all the elders and people 49 that participated in that meeting at that time. So I 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 171

1 want to congratulate James and Williams. And I'm sure 2 this is not the last of them that we'll be hearing. 3 I'm sure they are going to be coming to our meetings 4 from time to time so it's always good to hear from 5 them, always good to hear their talks and their 6 knowledge about what they see and what they've heard 7 and what they'd like to see continue. So again I can't 8 thank you enough for your dedication to this 9 organization. I've learned a lot from you both over

10 the years and, you know, and I'm in agreement with 11 everything that they've mentioned, whether they hear it 12 from an elder or things that they've seen, that's just 13 a knowledge that our Yup'ik people have embedded in us 14 as Yup'ik people of this region, is the knowledge and 15 the wisdom that's been handed down from generation to 16 generation and we've heard a little bit of that from 17 Mr. Peter, people that have participated from the time 18 that they've seen from the time that they've used the 19 resources throughout the four seasons, while being at 20 summertime at fish camps or winter trapping out in the 21 middle of nowhere. Those are the people that are 22 really dedicated to what we are advocating for of our 23 people in the YK region. 24 25 And that's how I grew up myself, too, 26 going from season to season, camps, and we'd be there, 27 you know, throughout the whole summer, and then only 28 time we'd come back to the village is when we have to 29 resupply our basic needs like flour, sugar, tea, coffee 30 and, you know, very seldom did we come down for that, 31 and when we do go to the village I'm always treated 32 like (In Yup'ik) even though I'm from that village. 33 It's the kind of attitude that we had with the people 34 that use these resources, so that's the kind of 35 humbleness and the work that they've done over the 36 years, so that's really humbling to hear and know 37 there's people like that that are still passing down 38 this knowledge to the generation, that has been handed 39 down through time. 40 41 Thank you. 42 43 Thank you all for the good reports, Mr. 44 Peter, Mr. Brown and James Charles. 45 46 I'll start my report by saying that as 47 you know we had early break up on the Yukon. It seems 48 like that seems to be the case a year -- years. It 49 seems like our break ups are getting to be earlier in 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 172

1 the spring. And we hear about the main break up that's 2 coming down from the Yukon, further up the Yukon in the 3 headwaters, we usually do our timing by the break ups 4 that occur further up the Yukon because on the lower 5 river it's usually -- that lowest part of the Yukon 6 that is last to break up and, you know, over the years, 7 maybe the last 10 years that we've seen a lot of 8 changes in the weather pattern and that's not the case 9 anymore, we hear about the break up further up river

10 and before the main break up reaches our village the 11 ice melts. The ice melts in place before the main 12 break up comes so that's things that people are seeing. 13 14 And as a result of that we've seen the 15 warming of the water as a result of that and the fish 16 die-off that occurred over the summer and that pattern 17 is not going to change any time soon and I'm sure we'll 18 see, you know, more of this. 19 20 I mentioned one time in one of my 21 reports is that we're beginning to see things happen in 22 front of our own eyes, things that are happening that 23 are going to change the way we do things as far as 24 subsistence users -- users of the resource, that is 25 happening, like Mr. Peter said, in our back door. 26 27 And that's why we need to be observant 28 of all those things. Like I answer -- we have to be 29 aware of our surroundings and that will always be in my 30 heart, the way I grew up and who I grew up with and the 31 things that we utilize throughout the seasons. 32 33 Also the moose is beginning to -- it's 34 still the same, we still have a lot of moose in our 35 area and as a result of that we're beginning to see 36 bears come into our area, brown bear, or grizzly bears, 37 or brown bears, we never heard of -- or even moose were 38 never heard of probably 20, 30 years ago, now in that 39 20 years we've seen moose populations in our area 40 explode and as a result of that predators follow like 41 the wolves and the bears and as a result of that we're 42 beginning to see a lot of that -- a lot of the bears 43 and the wolves come closer to the village and that was 44 the case earlier this summer where there was like two 45 bears that came into our village and people were -- you 46 know, had to be armed, you know, when take kids to 47 school, or to get them after school. And, you know, 48 people -- young kids that were out doing activities in 49 the evening, you know, stayed home because that bear 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 173

1 that was running around in the village. So those are 2 the things that we're beginning to see. 3 4 Yes, a lot of good comments that I 5 heard from James and William and Mr. Peter what we need 6 to do and continue to do and to be observant about 7 things that are happening in our area. 8 9 And also the die-off, definitely I've

10 seen the salmon die-off this summer too as a result of 11 that warmer water happening, I seen quite a few salmon 12 that were floating on top of the water. 13 14 And also on FaceBook that occurred 15 further up north toward Kotlik area, further up that 16 way, there's reports of seals that are washing up on 17 shore after the break up, after people start going out 18 on boats after the main ice went out, seen a lot of 19 that, seals that are on the shoreline there. 20 21 So I'm hoping that the Fish and Game, 22 Fish and Wildlife are aware of that and they're making 23 every effort to study and see what's maybe going on 24 other than the changing weather that's happening, maybe 25 the diet that they may be missing out in the Bering 26 Sea. As we heard last spring there was no Bering Sea 27 ice, which may be the cause but, you know, I'm not 28 second guessing but, you know, seals have to rest too 29 just like people, you know, they probably didn't have 30 no place to rest and end up swimming themselves to 31 death. 32 33 I think that's pretty much all I got 34 for my report from my area. 35 36 Quyana. 37 38 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 39 Oney. Thank you guys for your reports. I love hearing 40 what you guys have to say, it's really meaningful and 41 it's one of the most important parts of our RAC 42 meetings here, is to hear what the subsistence issues 43 that are happening out there and how we can address 44 them and move forward and being able to help with 45 subsistence issues. 46 47 I'm going to make mine really quick and 48 brief. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 174

1 (Laughter) 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: So first 4 springtime, everything was on time. Everything was 5 coming through. Everything was beautiful this year. I 6 haven't seen that type of environmental effects, 7 weather patterns, birds, bees, you name it, everything 8 was on time this year. 9

10 We had lots of birds that came through 11 this year. We also had a lot of mosquitos early parts 12 of knats, whitesocks were out in the springtime, you 13 could almost inhale them they were that bad. 14 15 Sheefish came in great. 16 17 Smelts came in great except there's a 18 lot of worms in the smelts, which is unusual because 19 there is -- you cut them open -- and I cut them open to 20 take the guts out and then hang them and dry them, this 21 year you cut them open and they had all these clear, 22 whole bunch of clear worms that were just everywhere. 23 So I cooked the first fresh batch of fish, after I 24 cleaned them out, and then I had to cook them extra 25 because as you're cooking you could see the worms 26 sizzling out of the meat which was really weird, so I 27 bagged the rest, three gallons, I threw them in the 28 freezer so that it could kill all the worms that were 29 inside of those. 30 31 We had lots of beavers and muskrats 32 this spring. 33 34 We also had seen a lot of bear activity 35 in places we'd never really seen this year. 36 37 For the summertime everything was on 38 time until that heatwave hit and it kind of -- 39 everything went wonky. 40 41 Lots of baby birds were everywhere. I 42 got 12 different species of baby birds this year, just 43 showing up on my doorstep. 44 45 And there was also lots of wasps this 46 year, which is really unusual because I didn't see that 47 many wasps as we were cutting fish and putting fish 48 away. There was wasps all over the place and they were 49 eating all the flies. And I've never really seen wasps 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 175

1 eat flies, unless it's moose hunting season. But I've 2 never seen them actually go after all the flies and go 3 after all the fish so there was definitely an increase 4 in wasps this year. 5 6 Our garden kept maturing too fast 7 because of the heat so we had to restart our garden 8 consistently. Potatoes were small this year. 9

10 When we went seal hunting there was 11 like no seals up in this area, we saw about maybe three 12 washed up dead seals. 13 14 The salmon came in great. But there was 15 something different about them this year. There's a 16 decaying smell and the taste after they got done drying 17 that I couldn't shake, like we went to get done and 18 then I'd taste the fish and it -- there was a dingy 19 taste to it, it was really weird. Then I called Fish 20 and Game and talked to them and I called people down in 21 Seattle to figure out what was going on with our fish 22 and they said that there was a couple possibilities 23 because the water's so warm that the fish were decaying 24 as they're coming out of the water and if you didn't 25 put them on ice immediately they started to spoil in 26 the totes. So we had -- when we went drifting the next 27 time we brought ice and put ice as we were going, and 28 put the fish in the ice as we continued drifting, but 29 the first batch of fish that we put away this year was 30 definitely -- there was definitely a taste and smell to 31 it that I still can't -- I have a couple of bags at 32 home that I haven't really dove into. 33 34 So all of our salmon subsistence needs 35 were exceeded this year. 36 37 And for falltime, everything was late. 38 We had caught a lot of spooner ducks this year. There 39 was a huge variety -- not variety of them, huge 40 population of spooner ducks everywhere this year so we 41 caught a lot of those. 42 43 Coho, for our first batch, we lost it 44 due to spoilage and humidity. We tried to be really 45 expert this year and use our garage and had heat going, 46 had fans going, had the whole works, it don't work. 47 48 (Laughter) 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 176

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: What we found out 2 that next day, our fish still spoiled. So it turned 3 into dog food. On the second batch we were very 4 successful, we -- God timed everything right to where 5 the time, the weather and the time we were able to go 6 out fishing, we were able to have enough time in the 7 stormy rain weather to put our fish outside to where it 8 dried and then we had enough time drying it outside to 9 move it into a smokehouse before we were going to put

10 it away. 11 12 Once I heard about the fish dying, 13 someone called me -- text me messages and they said 14 there's 200 fish died in the river, and they were from 15 down in Napaskiak -- Napakiak and they were driving up 16 to Bethel and they had to turn around because there 17 were too many fish dying in -- or there were too many 18 fish floating in the river, that they went back to 19 Napakiak and they called me. So I went down to the 20 river and I stayed there for maybe six hours just 21 watching the river and I was at awe of like seeing all 22 these fish and it was very, kind of a surreal moment to 23 realize how much drastic change in temperature our 24 river became because of how much fish were floating. 25 And it reminded me of the dead smolt that we came 26 across when we were doing subsistence harvest surveys a 27 few years ago. I want to say maybe 2012, 2013 28 timeframe where the water temperature had risen enough, 29 but instead of affecting bigger fish it was affecting 30 the smolt that were coming down the river. So every 31 sand bar that we came across, all the way from Gweek, 32 all the way down to Napaskiak Slough, every sand bar 33 had dead baby smolt on it. We didn't know what species 34 they were, we didn't know what kind they were so we put 35 them in these little tiny jars and we shipped them out 36 to Anchorage to find out what it was and we didn't hear 37 back from them. 38 39 Oh, and lastly I wanted to finish off 40 with that I had snow geese in my backyard, which is 41 really unusual because usually you don't see snow geese 42 unless it's out in the (In Yup'ik) somewhere or in the 43 flat Tundra area, they were in my backyard and I never 44 seen snow geese in my backyard, the only place I seen 45 snow geese was in Black River. So that was really 46 unusual to have snow geese in my backyard. 47 48 Doi. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 177

1 I'm done. 2 3 It was requested that we take a 10 4 minute break after the reports. And then on deck we're 5 going to go into the service awards for James Charles 6 and Mr. Charlie Brown. 7 8 We'll go ahead and take a 10 minute 9 break. Be back here by 11:22.

10 11 (Off record) 12 13 (On record) 14 15 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: The time now is 16 11:22, we want to make sure we're going to be staying 17 on schedule today. We are on time constraints to try 18 to get through as much of our agenda as possible. So 19 we're going to be a little more stricter with our time. 20 21 We're going on to service awards and 22 potluck celebration for James Charles and Charlie 23 Brown. We would be doing this this evening. We'll 24 have a big potluck for you and I'll cook for you, and 25 (In Yup'ik). 26 27 (Laughter) 28 29 MR. ANDREW: This evening. 30 31 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Uh-huh. Yeah, 32 this evening. 33 34 But on a serious note, thank you guys 35 so much for all your wisdom, your love, your 36 generosity, everything. You guys have taught me so 37 much and I take that to heart. You guys both have been 38 such great opportunity for me to get to know you, and 39 talk to you, and call you all the time. 40 41 (Laughter) 42 43 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: And for all of 44 us, you guys, too, that have been on this Board are 45 great minds and I love to talk and hear what you guys 46 think and say because it's very meaningful. But you 47 both have been such great blessing to this RAC and to 48 this region and for our people. And I thank you so 49 much from the bottom of my heart. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 178

1 Eva. 2 3 MS. PATTON: Thank you, Madame Chair. 4 5 MR. LEKANDER: Can I say something. 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yeah, please do. 8 9 MR. LEKANDER: (In Yup'ik)

10 11 MR. ANDREW: Robert, put the mic on. 12 13 MR. LEKANDER: Yeah, I work with James 14 Charles in the Tribal Fisheries Commission, he tried to 15 run away from us this spring. 16 17 (Laughter) 18 19 MR. LEKANDER: And we told him he can't 20 quit so we made him an honorary member. 21 22 (Laughter) 23 24 MR. LEKANDER: And he can come to our 25 meetings every time because he's been there on our 26 river a long time and we need somebody steadfast to 27 turn to. We have him come to our meetings all the time 28 so he didn't get away too easy. 29 30 Thank you. 31 32 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 33 Lekander. 34 35 Eva. 36 37 MS. PATTON: Thank you, Madame Chair. 38 Thank you, thank you, Mr. Lekander. 39 40 Indeed, it has been such an honor to 41 know and work with James and Charlie all these years, 42 your dedication on the working group and to this, 43 Subsistence Regional Advisory Council, nearly 23 years 44 of service on the Yukon Kuskokwim Delta Subsistence 45 Regional Advisory Council. And always patient and 46 persistent and so passionate about subsistence and 47 thank you so much for both of you for all of your good 48 work and your good ways. It's really been an honor and 49 a joy to work with you and to know you. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 179

1 Thank you. 2 3 And on behalf of the Office of 4 Subsistence Management we do have a couple certificates 5 of appreciation for your lifetime service, and I'll 6 come honor you here for both James Charles and Charlie 7 Brown. Your many years of service to the Council. 8 9 Thank you.

10 11 (Applause) 12 13 MR. CHARLES: Quyana. 14 15 MR. BROWN: Quyana. 16 17 MR. CHARLES: Thank you very much for 18 the certificate. I really like that. And I appreciate 19 what these people do for us. Thank you, again. 20 21 Doi. 22 23 MR. BROWN: Yeah, Quyana. 24 25 INTERPRETER: I want to thank you for 26 -- I want to thank all of you, everybody, especially 27 the State and Federal people and the tribal members 28 that I have worked with and the partnership that we 29 have, especially this summer, has been really good, the 30 harmony and I've been really thankful this past year 31 how smoothly things have gone between all the three 32 agencies and I really push forward to continue the 33 working together because we are working for our future, 34 the people that are coming up, the next generation. 35 36 And I really push forward the agenda of 37 conservation and the ability to get the subsistence 38 foods and thank you very much for all of you. 39 40 Quyana. 41 42 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Let's go ahead 43 and join me in giving them one last round of applause, 44 standing ovation. 45 46 (Applause) 47 48 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right. 49 Public and tribal comments, do we have Janessa Esquible 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 180

1 on line. 2 3 MS. ESQUIBLE: I just wanted to make a 4 quick comment in regards to what some of the Council 5 members, and I think it was Robert Lekander and Mary 6 Peltola, speaking to the smaller size of the salmon 7 this year that they caught. I just wanted to share the 8 ASL subsistence data for the lower Kuskokwim River. 9

10 And that the average length from 2001 11 to 2013 was 760 millimeters, which is like around 30 12 inches, but then when -- in 2014, that's when the gear 13 size was restricted from 8 to 6 inch, and the average 14 went down by like around five inches. And so last year 15 in our in-season summary pamphlet we had mentioned that 16 the shift in the smaller size, at least over this time 17 period was likely due to changes in the allowable mesh 18 size of the net. 19 20 So I just wanted to make that comment. 21 22 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any questions or 23 comments for Janessa. 24 25 (No comments) 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, 28 Janessa. 29 30 MS. ESQUIBLE: Thank you. 31 32 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Pat Samson. 33 34 MR. SAMSON: Good morning. Thank you 35 for the opportunity. 36 37 Back in the '90s when I ran my dogs out 38 of Bethel here, I would run out and use the old dog 39 trails, and there was hardly trail markers along those 40 dog trails and so -- and I remember in late December 41 '99, there was a couple young boys on the Atmautluak 42 Trail and they lost the trail and they could not find 43 that young man. This was December, they found him in 44 May 2000, and that was along the dog trail and where 45 they found him was about 10 yards off the trail. And 46 so the trail markers had been really important for 47 inter-village travel especially with the high air 48 travel right now, a lot of people are using ATVs and 49 snowmobiles to come to Bethel for all the things that 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 181

1 they need to do in Bethel. 2 3 With that, the Atmautluak trail, the 4 markers were like 200 feet apart, if there were even 5 any, and so I've seen that trail from almost no marking 6 with search and rescue, asking ONC to mark that trail 7 at 75 feet apart. We started marking that trail at 75 8 foot intervals. And since we put those 75 feet 9 intervals we have not had a search on that trail at

10 all. 11 12 One time about five year ago or so 13 there were two young men who went out ptarmigan hunting 14 and they couldn't find their way back because those 15 trails were -- and right after that we started 16 instituting the 75 foot markers. And we've had -- 17 search and rescue has had virtually no searches on that 18 trail. There's been some rescues because there's 19 accidents along the way and stuff but it is pretty 20 important to mark those old snowmachine trails. 21 22 The problem that we have is the YK 23 Delta Regional Wildlife Refuge does not give any access 24 to any of the villages to mark trails in their land -- 25 on their property. I know there's one of the village 26 tribes on the Yukon trying to mark that Outhog trail to 27 Akiachuk because that's an old trading route but YK 28 Delta, the Fish and Wildlife in D.C., or whoever, is 29 not giving the permission to the tribe to have access 30 to mark those trails. And I have asked -- in 2016 I 31 wrote a letter to Senator Murkowski for help on getting 32 us the okay to go ahead and mark on these Federal 33 public lands but I've never heard anything from them -- 34 and I know -- I was talking to another BIA official 35 yesterday and asked maybe as a concerted effort if we 36 could contact Senator Murkowski's office and have them 37 give us a variance, not us, but the tribe, variances, 38 for access to the Federal public lands to be able to 39 put up tripods, and we all know how important the 40 tripods are. 41 42 And so that was just my public comment 43 to you. 44 45 Thank you. 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Pat. 48 I had a couple questions for you. Do you need a letter 49 of support from us or is there anything that we can do 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 182

1 to help support putting up trails and markers. I know 2 how important it is for us to know where the trails are 3 and to lessen the incidents of people getting lost. 4 5 MR. SAMSON: Yes, a letter of support 6 would go a long way. It's just not for travel that we 7 do mark on those trails, when we do marking -- when we 8 do maintenance on the trail markers, we pick up a lot 9 of debris. We pick up old wooden sleds, old oil cans

10 and everything else, socks, you name it, suitcases, old 11 couches and everything else we've picked up and we even 12 have pictures for those. So it's -- we pick up a lot 13 of trash, which is good for the environment. 14 15 And even if you're having a one on one 16 with the Congressman or the Senators, that would be 17 really good for you to mention, that they should 18 support the villages on trying to mark the over land 19 trails, especially with people relying more and more on 20 traveling on the over land trails. 21 22 We've had, just in the '90s, if I got 23 lost on a snowmachine out there, my snowmachine back 24 then had probably a top gas tank mileage of about 70 25 miles and when I ran out of gas, then that's where I 26 would stop. But now with the new four stroke 27 snowmobiles, the snowmobile that I have gives me 189 28 miles for one tankful, and there's even other 29 snowmobiles that can go over 200 miles on just one 30 tank. So right now the searchers, every time people do 31 a search it's not just a 60 mile radius that they're 32 confining themselves to, they're having to extend to a 33 200 mile radius. 34 35 I could probably go on and on with 36 that. But it marks the importance of the trail markers 37 that we should put, especially on the Federal public 38 lands because a lot of the villages, we use those not 39 only for travel but for hunting and fishing and what 40 not. 41 42 Sorry, that was kind of a long answer. 43 44 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: No, that's okay. 45 It's very important that we have trail markers on those 46 trails for not only subsistence travel, for hunting, 47 for inter-village travel, but it's really important -- 48 I believe it's real important because I, myself, was 49 going out ptarmigan hunting when I was 11 years old, 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 183

1 and, of course I followed the ptarmigan to wherever 2 they were. Come to find out I was halfway to Yukon 3 River by that point and I got in so much trouble for 4 it. So I understand about needing the trail markers. 5 6 Anybody else on the Board want to talk 7 about anything -- any comments for him. 8 9 MR. PHILLIP: Madame Chair.

10 11 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, go ahead. 12 13 MR. PHILLIP: (In Yup'ik) 14 15 INTERPRETER: We have four trails 16 behind our village, one trail is the original old 17 traditional trail from Bethel to -- it goes to the low 18 part and then our trail -- and then the second trail, 19 (In Yup'ik) trail, and it's a straight trail to Russian 20 Mission and that is an old traditional trail. And then 21 the third trail, the (In Yup'ik) a bluff trail, along 22 (In Yup'ik) and it can get to Russian Mission as well. 23 And then the Tuluksak Trail, there are four trails from 24 the Kuskokwim to the Yukon. That old original trail is 25 marked but the three -- other three are not and it 26 stops up to (In Yup'ik). And then the trail to 27 Marshall. Getting to the tree line, it's marked up to 28 the tree line, the one -- that's what we marked, those 29 two trails. 30 31 There are no markers on these other 32 three trails. 33 34 But the tundra is worn down on those 35 other trails. And we keep -- upkeep them every year. 36 We've saved a few travelers who have gotten lost on 37 that trail using our trail markers to go out and 38 search. 39 40 They usually get lost once they get 41 into the trees from the Kuskokwim to the Yukon, to the 42 trees, and on the Gweek River there are woodland 43 trails, there are a lot of trails in the woods that 44 people get lost in. We do make -- would want to make 45 markers there but we are restricted. 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Did you guys want 48 to do a letter of support for his trail marking? 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 184

1 Go ahead, Mr. Brown. 2 3 MR. BROWN: Charlie. Quyana, Madame 4 Chair. 5 6 INTERPRETER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 7 So these marked trails are for the benefit of our 8 youth. Since our youth do not think ahead and not 9 think of the weather and that is how the trail marking

10 came to be is to help our youth. The State wait 24 11 hours before they go out to search, they used to do 12 that but we did not like that 24 hour wait so if nobody 13 does not arrive on time we need to go out looking for 14 them right away and that's what we created on this 15 search and rescue protocol, especially during extreme 16 cold weathers, we cannot wait 24 hours for that person 17 to freeze. And through ourselves, we gas up our own 18 snowmachines and go out. And we just don't want that 19 lost person who has not arrived home, we do not want 20 them to freeze. 21 22 So that's how we have our search and 23 rescue protocol, we do not wait 24 hours, especially 24 when it's very cold. 25 26 Thank you. 27 28 MR. BROWN: Quyana. 29 30 MR. PETER: Madame Chair. 31 32 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead. 33 34 MR. PETER: Do we have to make a motion 35 to write a support letter. 36 37 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council, 38 if I may just make a little clarification. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Eva. 41 42 MS. PATTON: As to who the letter can 43 be directed to. Because the Council serves on behalf 44 of the Secretary of the Interior, the Council -- 45 because of the Hatch Act, cannot direct the comment or 46 request directly to elected officials, however, the 47 Council can write directly to the Federal land managers 48 for this request. And also can include this concern in 49 your annual report to the Federal Subsistence Board, 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 185

1 which is made up of all the Federal land managers, so 2 you would reach all the land managers in that case. So 3 there's opportunities to direct it directly to Yukon 4 Delta National Wildlife Refuge and reach all of the 5 other Federal land managers as well. 6 7 Thank you. 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva.

10 Did you get it all. So it would be a letter of support 11 for the snowmachine trail marking to the Federal land 12 managers, Federal Subsistence Board and the Yukon Delta 13 National Wildlife Refuge manager. 14 15 MR. SAMSON: It will be to the 16 Department of Interior for who would take..... 17 18 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 19 The Council's authority reports directly to the Federal 20 Subsistence Board, and the Board can be requested to 21 relay the concern to the Secretary of the Interior. 22 23 Thank you. 24 25 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: So the motion 26 would be to have the letter of support for the 27 snowmachine trail marking to the Federal land managers, 28 Federal Subsistence Board and the Yukon Delta National 29 Wildlife Refuge manager. That's who our letter will be 30 addressed to. 31 32 MR. SAMSON: Thank you. 33 34 MR. PETER Madame Chair. I so move. 35 36 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 37 Peter. Do we have a second. 38 39 MR. MAXIE: I second that but I have a 40 question. Is there corporation lands up in here with 41 this or is this only on the Federal lands? 42 43 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I think that 44 would be a question for, is it AVCP that's making those 45 trail markings or -- no, come back -- you can come 46 back. 47 48 MR. MAXIE: I'm sorry, Pat. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 186

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: No, it's okay. 2 It's okay, we'll figure it out. 3 4 MR. SAMSON: Mr. Born, from Fish and 5 Wildlife has been really positive and supportive of 6 this but somebody higher above the office needs to make 7 that, and I wrote a letter back in 2016 and I got a 8 letter -- a copy of the letter which was a directive 9 from the White House to the Secretary, that none of

10 these will be made without intervention from the White 11 House. I know that's boiling it down. And the 12 corporation lands, the allotment owners are okay, 90 13 percent of them have been okay with granting access to 14 put trail markers. But the Federal public lands, like 15 the Yukon Kuskokwim Delta Wildlife Refuge, the powers 16 that be have been reluctant or they have not given 17 access for us to set up any of that stuff. 18 19 The long and short of it, when the 20 transportation is -- the Transportation Bill is signed 21 by the President, it goes to the Federal highways and 22 from the Federal Highways Commission it goes to the 23 Federal Highways Office, the State Department of 24 Transportation and BIA, Bureau of Indian Affairs, 25 Transportation -- Department of Transportation, and it 26 goes on to the villages. And if any of these trails 27 are not on the inventory, then you cannot spend any of 28 that money on there. 29 30 Right now, like ONC, on its inventory 31 has Bethel to Atmautluak, and that means we can spend 32 money on that one. We don't have on our inventory, 33 Bethel to Oughmute (ph), then we can't spend that money 34 on them. We don't have Bethel to Oscarville, we can't 35 spend money on that one. We have Bethel to Napaskiak, 36 we have that in our inventory so we can spend money on 37 that one. 38 39 So for us to spend money putting up, 40 buying gasoline or oil, because a lot of people are 41 volunteering but they need to pay for gas and oil, and 42 we can't spend any of that money because they are not 43 on our inventory. So to get it on the inventory we 44 need the land owners to say specifically, in writing, 45 that you give permission, let's say ONC, to put on the 46 inventory, Bethel to Oughmute trail and with that we 47 would be able to spend money on that one. 48 49 So that is the support that we want 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 187

1 from the Federal land holder, to okay us to put it in 2 our inventory. We don't make new trails, we just use 3 the old dog trails, we can't -- with this money we 4 can't make new trails on the public lands, but we just 5 -- some of the trails are only like four or five feet 6 wide, and if you blink while you're crossing that you 7 may just lose that. And so it's not a great big swath 8 of land, and we don't want to develop any of this land, 9 we just want to mark the grandfathered trails that are

10 already on there. 11 12 Does that answer the question. 13 14 MR. MAXIE: Thank you, Pat, for 15 clarifying that. I second the motion. 16 17 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 18 Maxie. 19 20 Mr. Charles. 21 22 MR. CHARLES: So we think about 23 corporation lands, too (In Yup'ik), there are a lot of 24 left over from the coastal villages. There are quite a 25 few left over pile of markers but they already marked 26 from the government cabin at -- or used to be but they 27 burned the old one, the new markers are to Tuntutuliak 28 and from Tuntutuliak down to (In Yup'ik) or Kipnuk 29 (ph). But those are mainly corporation lands. But if 30 we are asked how are they -- on Federal land, are they 31 -- because that includes Federal lands too, straight 32 line to Kipnuk or Chefornak and (In Yup'ik), that way 33 too. But we don't have any markers towards Eek. Eek 34 is closed but (In Yup'ik). 35 36 INTERPRETER: So I'm asking about 37 whether or not the Federal land, but the corporation 38 lands that -- do they fall into -- that's the concern. 39 40 MR. SAMSON: Corporation land -- the 41 corporate lands belong to each village or regional 42 corporation so it doesn't affect the corporation -- or 43 any of the land owner, but the only one that we're 44 talking about is the Federal public lands, the ability 45 to have access to put those. 46 47 MR. CHARLES: Okay. Quyana. 48 49 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right, we 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 188

1 have a motion on the floor by Mr. Peter, second by Mr. 2 Maxie, any further discussion or more comments. 3 4 MR. PETER: I call for question. 5 6 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Question has been 7 called, all those in favor say aye. 8 9 IN UNISON: Aye.

10 11 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All those opposed 12 say nay. 13 14 (No opposing votes) 15 16 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right. We'll 17 put that on the to do list. 18 19 MR. ANDREW: Are we having discussion 20 on it. 21 22 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yeah, we called 23 for it. Do you want some more. 24 25 MR. ANDREW: I only have a question on 26 jurisdiction. Because when I first started working 27 with the Office of Subsistence Management years ago, I 28 think it came up once and I think they said we're 29 dealing with the Federal government lands but I never 30 heard any of them mention trail marking, but we only 31 have advisory authority -- we're advisory to the 32 Federal Subsistence Board and who has actual 33 jurisdiction to ask for trail markers on Federal public 34 land? 35 36 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: It goes through a 37 process. It goes through a compatibility determination 38 and then it goes through the regional office in 39 Anchorage, and I believe -- Pat, did you say it goes 40 to..... 41 42 MR. ANDREW: Then it goes back to the 43 Refuge? 44 45 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yeah, it goes -- 46 it starts off there and then it goes all the way out to 47 Washington, correct, Pat..... 48 49 MR. SAMSON: (Nods affirmatively) 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 189

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: .....and then it 2 comes all the way back. So you said it gets stuck in 3 Washington or somewhere or somewhere up there? 4 5 MR. SAMSON: That's where the trail 6 ended on us. 7 8 (Laughter) 9

10 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Doi. Okay. Any 11 more public testimony from teleconference land. 12 13 (No comments) 14 15 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Eva, should we 16 entertain -- do you guys want to go to lunch right now, 17 it's 12:00 o'clock. It doesn't feel like it at all. 18 19 Yeah, you want to go to lunch. 20 21 (Council nods affirmatively) 22 23 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yeah, lunch. 24 25 MS. PELTOLA: Madame Chair. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead. 28 29 MS. PELTOLA: Has Evan Waska given his 30 public testimony. 31 32 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: He's not here. 33 34 MS. PELTOLA: Oh, no, I know, he's on 35 the line, but maybe if you have still have public 36 testimony after lunch. 37 38 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: We can go ahead 39 and do him right now if he's ready. Mr. Waska, are you 40 on line. 41 42 MR. WASKA: Yes, I am, good morning. 43 44 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Quyana, good 45 morning. 46 47 MR. WASKA: Sorry I can't be there, I 48 had knee surgery. But I was going to hobble on in this 49 morning but God made it worse out, it's called climate 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 190

1 change. 2 3 (Laughter) 4 5 MR. WASKA: An elder tell me to speak 6 on that moose, that proposal, he wanted it for mid- 7 September, when the moose start moving, due to the fact 8 maybe our people are not getting -- are not so lucky, 9 and with this climate change now here, I'd like to -- I

10 heard there's four members going -- from last year -- I 11 heard a comment from Mr. James Charles on Fish and Game 12 is here to help us and he made a comment on that. For 13 me, it was hard to accept as well, but coming from him, 14 an elder, and being on the Board, too, and seeing my 15 people up there, and those four that our outgoing, but 16 hard to accept -- and the fact that Fish and Game is 17 here for us. And now with climate change they have to 18 be really helping us out, it's here now. It's going to 19 hit the subsistence food cycle hard and with the 20 closure of -- I heard they might even close caribou and 21 maybe they're down to one, and if that happens I hope 22 maybe one of the proposals is like if the village 23 really needs meat, I hope moose -- I hope Fish and Game 24 provides that moose because that one moose goes a long 25 way. I'm happy to have it when a death occurs in the 26 village, and even here in Bethel, I seen it twice, and 27 it really helps the people that have deaths in the 28 family. 29 30 But back to climate change, it's going 31 to be hard on our people on subsistence. Like Mr. 32 James Charles stated, Fish and Game is here to help us, 33 I hope they help us out during this time right now. 34 35 And that elder tell me to comment on 36 caribou, and that one young hunter, he complained to 37 me, too, that Fish and Game are harassing caribou with 38 the helicopters and planes. That causes stress and I 39 believe it causes hoof, what you call that, hoof 40 disease, too. And one of the biggest culprit maybe to 41 that decline, you're seeing it right now, freezing 42 rain. I discussed to my buddy, how come fall caribou 43 are declining, they got all this food available, he 44 said, even when it freezes there's no more snow, 45 there's freezing rain, their food freezes, he told me 46 they're starving. He made a point and it was in my 47 head. And it's part of climate change, I guess they 48 only eat less, I guess, and he's right, it's not only 49 us people, maybe predator, maybe it's all of the above. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 191

1 But that elder tell me to comment on that. 2 3 And the concern with the ptarmigan, 4 ptarmigan hunting what we call old airport, it's right 5 across there, in the willows on the east side, they had 6 killed a moose calf in the dense willows where the Fish 7 and Game can't see it and they turned around and went 8 to the west side in that slough, and there was a whole 9 bunch of carcasses, I know they were trappers and I

10 didn't -- I didn't think then to have meat sampled, I 11 don't know if they're eating poison. 12 13 And one of the biggest ones is 14 trespassing. These non-Native people are trespassing, 15 these Caucasian trappers, they don't have sound 16 management in their mind, they're trapping their game, 17 trap to they're all gone, they even named the traps out 18 there, I seen it. I guess we have cell phones now, 19 maybe you guys need proof. And when I was in Kisaralik 20 I see them way up there, they're on that side, that's 21 (indiscernible) land, who in the hell gave them 22 permission to hunt, trap that way. 23 24 And on the Kwethluk, that's Kwethluk's 25 territory. Akiachuk. I hope Fish and Game help us 26 enforce those laws. 27 28 And when I go moose hunting on the 29 Yukon, I see them on the south side of the timber line. 30 They're over trapping, these Caucasian hunters. And 31 they're leaving those traps and snares out there. My 32 follow trappers that's trying to make a living and they 33 go ahead and trespass on their lands and take their 34 animals, that's not right. I know there's Native 35 trappers out there trying to make a living right now 36 and then they do it, and I didn't like what I seen. 37 38 But anyway I hope -- I'm still for no 39 mine, the Donlin Creek Gold Mine, they keep saying it's 40 going to be tailings pond, it's not going to be a pond, 41 it's going to be a big lake, it's going to have no 42 drainages. We'll go up on our land and our waters, all 43 the lakes have drainages, they all go out to the river, 44 this one is not going to have any,it's going to just 45 sit there, mine poison. So I hope Fish and Game help 46 us on that one. Because the Kuskokwim is still our 47 food source. 48 49 And, oh, yeah, what Mr. James Charles 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 192

1 thinks still -- I owe you guys big thank you on 2 bringing up the moose population and I got my king 3 salmon and I thank you guys for that. And I hope you 4 have in mind -- you're hungry right now, and I don't 5 know what you guys -- you guys have money in your 6 pockets and you guys are all going to go get food, but 7 my people out there, it's called subsistence and it 8 comes from the land. They got no money in their 9 pockets, they're going to eat what's available. And we

10 always complain -- we plan ahead for what's coming but 11 you Fish and Game got to let up on that because on 12 fishing, like Mr. Phillip Peter said, our hands are 13 tied, they still are. When the fish drying weather 14 comes in May and June it's when we got to dry fish, 15 that sustains us through these long winter months, we 16 plan ahead. Fish and Game is stopping that. And what 17 Mr. Charles said last year, they're helping us, they 18 need to help us more on this climate change. 19 20 And I thank you for letting me comment. 21 22 Anyway think of my people out in the 23 villages, it's called subsistence, it comes from the 24 land and the waters, and when that mine breaks it's 25 going to kill everything here on the Kuskokwim. 26 27 Okay, Quyana. 28 29 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 30 Waska. Any comments or questions for Mr. Waska. 31 32 (No comments) 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right, 35 Quyana, Mr. Waska -- oh, there you go, James Charles. 36 37 MR. CHARLES: (In Yup'ik) 38 39 INTERPRETER: So, I, myself, and being 40 thanked, but I am James Charles, I am -- I heard that 41 he's grateful but when I hear..... 42 43 MR. CHARLES: .....regulation changes 44 I, or proposals, I announce it on the radio. I call 45 the radio right away when I hear something -- radio 46 station, and KYUK in Bethel and let everybody hear -- 47 everybody who has a radio on for talk shows and other, 48 when I hear those changes I let people know right away 49 that we abide with the new rules and that help -- that 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 193

1 has helped everybody, so thank you for doing that and 2 listening on KYUK. 3 4 Quyana. 5 6 MR. WASKA: Okay, Quyana. For what you 7 did before. You guys did God's work in my book for my 8 people, for being on the Board. 9

10 Quyana. 11 12 MR. PETER: Yeah, Quyana. 13 14 MR. WASKA: Quyana. 15 16 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. 17 18 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 19 Oney. 20 21 MR. ONEY: Yeah, thank you. That was 22 good to hear from you Evan Waska. I heard your 23 comments and your concerns and I share the same 24 concerns that you have and it's always good to hear 25 from people like you, to come forward to the meetings 26 that we have every year -- throughout the year, anyway, 27 and if we don't hear from people that use them, then 28 we're not doing our jobs so appreciate your time and 29 your effort to come forward and address your concerns. 30 31 Thanks, again. 32 33 MR. WASKA: Okay, you're welcome. 34 35 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Quyana, Mr. 36 Waska. 37 38 MR. WASKA: Quyana, Mr. -- Madame 39 Chair. 40 41 (Laughter) 42 43 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I might see you 44 pretty soon, though. 45 46 (Laughter) 47 48 MR. WASKA: Have a good day, bye. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 194

1 (Laughter) 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. All right, 4 I guess if there's no more public testimony we'll go 5 ahead and adjourn for lunch. How long, you call it, an 6 hour, an hour and 15. 7 8 MR. CHARLES: An hour and 15, or 9 something like that.

10 11 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right. So be 12 back here by an hour and we'll begin at an hour and 15. 13 14 Doi. 15 16 Yeah. 17 18 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 19 We have Tom Kron here who well help shuttle Council 20 members to lunch, AC, wherever you would like to go. 21 22 Thank you. 23 24 And we'll reconvene in one hour. 25 26 Thank you. 27 28 (Off record) 29 30 (On record) 31 32 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Council members 33 have just arrived, we'll go ahead and get this meeting 34 started. The time now is 1:26 p.m. We are now 35 returning from lunch. Thank you for those that are on 36 teleconference, we greatly appreciate your patience. 37 38 Again, if you have translating 39 equipment make sure your translating equipment is to 40 Channel 1. And for those of you all on teleconference 41 please star six to mute your phone so we're not being 42 disruptive to people who are speaking and trying to 43 listen and also be respectful from the background 44 noise. 45 46 Greatly appreciate it. 47 48 We are coming from lunch and going into 49 old business. Our first item on the agenda is going to 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 195

1 be the wildlife closure review informational update. 2 3 OSM wildlife. 4 5 Hi, Sue. Thanks, Sue. 6 7 MS. WORKER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 8 My name is Suzanne Worker. I'm a wildlife biologist 9 with the Office of Subsistence Management. And I'm

10 just going to give you an update on the wildlife 11 closure reviews. 12 13 So as Eva mentioned yesterday, this is 14 not an action item, it's just an informational update. 15 And what these are is there are some places in the 16 region where Federal public lands are closed, either 17 entirely to hunting for a certain species, or closed to 18 everyone except Federally-qualified subsistence users, 19 and so we review those periodically, just to make sure 20 that those closures are still warranted, and that's 21 what this analysis is. 22 23 At your last meeting you already took 24 action on this but the Federal Subsistence Board has 25 not taken action on them yet. So this is just a 26 reminder that they're out there and the Board will be 27 taking action on them when they meet in April. 28 29 So the first closure review is WCR20- 30 38. This is for moose. And if you want to follow 31 along, this is on Page 23 of your book. This is for 32 the Kuskokwim hunt area of Unit 18. 33 34 MR. CHARLES: What number is that? 35 36 MS. WORKER: Page 23. 37 38 MR. CHARLES: Thank you. 39 40 MS. WORKER: Sure. So this is for 41 moose in the Unit 18 Kuskokwim hunt area. And on this 42 one the OSM conclusion of the analysis was to retain 43 the Federal public lands closure because the demands 44 still far outweighs the number of moose available for 45 harvest. And the conclusion also states that retaining 46 the closure ensures that the 15 communities that have 47 demonstrated the most dependence on this resource 48 continue to have a subsistence priority on Federal 49 public lands. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 196

1 And when you took this up in the spring 2 you also voted to retain the closure in support of 3 subsistence users in an area where demand still exceeds 4 the amount of moose available for harvest. 5 6 So that's all I have on that one, I can 7 move on to the next one if you're ready. 8 9 MR. PETER: Madame Chair.

10 11 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 12 Peter. 13 14 MR. PETER: I got a question on this. 15 So some Federally-qualified subsistence users. Some. 16 17 Some. 18 19 MS. WORKER: I'm sorry, I don't 20 understand your question. 21 22 MR. PETER: This -- I got question on 23 this one, some. Some who are not qualified. Not all 24 of the..... 25 26 MS. WORKER: I think that's a typo. 27 28 MR. PETER: Uh? 29 30 MS. WORKER: I think that's a mistake. 31 32 MR. PETER: Oh, that's a mistake. 33 34 MS. WORKER: Let me -- hold on one 35 minute, let me look again. 36 37 Oh, I see what it's saying. 38 39 Okay so in this hunt area there's been 40 customary and traditional use determination for, I 41 believe, all residents of Unit 18, plus residents of 42 upper Kalskag and lower Kalskag, however, there's been 43 additional analysis that we call an .804 analysis, that 44 has restricted the pool of eligible users to a smaller 45 group, and those are the 15 communities that are most 46 -- have been determined to be most dependent on the 47 resource and those are basically the communities that 48 are along the river. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 197

1 I can tell you which 15 communities 2 those are if you would like. 3 4 MR. PETER: Yes. 5 6 MS. WORKER: Okay. Those communities 7 are Akiachuk, Akiak, Atmautlauk, Bethel, Eek, Kalskag, 8 Kasigluk, Kwethluk, Lower Kalskag, Napakiak, Napaskiak, 9 Nunapitchuk, Oscarville, Tuluksak and Tuntutuliak.

10 11 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Did that answer 12 your question, Mr. Peter. 13 14 MR. PETER: (Nods affirmatively) 15 16 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any further 17 questions or comments. 18 19 (No comments) 20 21 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Good? 22 23 (Council nods affirmatively) 24 25 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yeah. I believe 26 we can go on Ms. Suzanne. 27 28 MS. WORKER: Okay. The next one is 29 WCR20-39. And this is actually a crossover closure 30 review. So this is for moose in Eastern Unit 17A -- 31 sorry, Eastern Unit 19A. 32 33 The OSM conclusion on this one is to 34 eliminate the closure in Unit 19A east to mirror the 35 recently adopted State regulations. And that 36 regulation change was to open a limited hunt by State 37 registration permit. 38 39 The YK Delta Subsistence Regional 40 Advisory Council voted to defer to the Western Interior 41 Council, so that's the home region for this area. And 42 then the Western Interior Council recommended 43 eliminating the closure to mirror the recently adopted 44 State regulations noting that the moose population can 45 support a limited bull harvest due to the high bull/cow 46 ratios and that issuing permits only in the local 47 communities gives local people the first opportunity to 48 obtain permits. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 198

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Charles. 2 3 MR. CHARLES: Moose on 19A? 4 5 MS. WORKER: That's correct. In the 6 eastern portion of Unit 19A. 7 8 MR. CHARLES: Thank you. 9

10 MS. WORKER: You're welcome. 11 12 MR. CHARLES: Where's -- I'm sorry. 13 14 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: You're good, go 15 ahead. 16 17 MR. CHARLES: Where's Downey Creek on 18 the map? 19 20 MS. WORKER: I don't know I might have 21 to study my map. 22 23 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Here. 24 25 MR. CHARLES: Yeah, she showed me where 26 it is. 27 28 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I got it covered. 29 30 MS. WORKER: Whew. 31 32 (Laughter) 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 35 Slats. 36 37 MR. SLATS: No, I'm fine. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Doi. 40 41 MR. PETER: Madame Chair. 42 43 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Peter. 44 45 MR. PETER: Madame Chair. This permit 46 system, is it Tier I and Tier II permit, or just the 47 regular permit? 48 49 MS. WORKER: It is a State registration 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 199

1 permit, so that's not a Tier II permit, but you do have 2 to get the permit in advance and report, I believe, 3 whether you harvest or not. 4 5 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any further 6 questions or comments on this one. 7 8 (No comments) 9

10 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: If not we can go 11 ahead and move forward. 12 13 Doi. 14 15 Go ahead. 16 17 MS. WORKER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 18 The next one is WCR-20-40. And this begins on Page 45 19 of your meeting materials. 20 21 This closure is also for moose and it 22 is in Unit 18 south of and including the Kanektok 23 drainage to the Goodnews River drainage. 24 25 On this one the OSM conclusion is to 26 modify or eliminate the closure because opening Federal 27 public lands isn't likely to pose a conservation 28 concern and that's mainly because the population has 29 grown so much recently and there is also a pretty 30 limited user base at this point. 31 32 The YK Delta Subsistence Regional 33 Advisory Council voted to modify the closure to open 34 Federal public lands only to Federally-qualified 35 subsistence users. 36 37 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 38 Charles. 39 40 MR. CHARLES: So it's going to be 41 closed from south of Eek River to -- all the way to 42 Goodnews River drainage? 43 44 MS. WORKER: Currently -- well, prior 45 to the development of this analysis, Federal public 46 lands were closed to all users, State lands were open, 47 but Federal lands were not and so our biologists think 48 that the population is probably at a point now where 49 that's not necessary and so what the Board will be 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 200

1 considering is whether they're going to open those 2 Federal public lands so that you can hunt on Federal 3 lands, for moose. 4 5 MR. CHARLES: Thank you. 6 7 (Pause) 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any further

10 questions, comments. 11 12 MR. ANDREW: Comments. 13 14 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 15 Andrew. 16 17 MR. ANDREW: I think -- as you know 18 we've been experiencing a population explosion in this 19 area, moose everywhere the last few years, especially 20 this summer -- all summer long, even after the local 21 moose season closed, we see them everywhere. Why 22 should we restrict area while the others on the sides 23 are open. We need to either eliminate it or modify it. 24 25 Madame Chair. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: How would that 28 process go. Do you want a modification to this. 29 30 MR. ANDREW: I think it's better to 31 eliminate it, it'll give them a chance to open it. Do 32 we have to propose it. I'd rather see the closure 33 eliminated for that area. 34 35 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: So if you go to 36 Page 42. 37 38 MR. ANDREW: Uh-huh. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: It talks about 41 the modified regulation that they're proposing on Page 42 42. 43 44 MR. ANDREW: I think their 45 recommendation was to -- on Page 49 it says either you 46 maintain the status quo or modify or eliminate the 47 closure on the top, Page 49 on the top first two lines. 48 49 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: So what I'm 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 201

1 reading -- wait. 2 3 (Pause) 4 5 MS. WORKER: I can try to respond to 6 that, Madame Chair. 7 8 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yeah, please, 9 thank you.

10 11 MS. WORKER: So I want to make sure I 12 understand what you're saying. So currently 13 Federal..... 14 15 MR. ANDREW: I'm looking at a 16 different..... 17 18 REPORTER: John. John, your mic, 19 please. 20 21 MR. ANDREW: I'm looking at the one at 22 49, that's a different one, 20-40. 23 24 MS. WORKER: That's the right one. 25 26 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yeah. 27 28 MR. ANDREW: I'm sorry that was my 29 mistake. 30 31 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: You're good. 32 33 MS. WORKER: No, Page 49 is the correct 34 page for this. And so Federal public lands are 35 currently closed there and OSM suggested modifying or 36 eliminating the closure and the Council also -- they 37 actually recommended to modify the closure so that only 38 Federally-qualified subsistence users could hunt there. 39 Currently Federally-qualified subsistence users cannot 40 hunt on Federal lands. 41 42 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 43 And maybe I'll just point out on Page 51 is the 44 Council's recommendation on this proposal, and this was 45 the deliberation and recommendation the Council made at 46 your previous meeting. 47 48 So I think that might be consistent 49 with what you're looking for now, John. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 202

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: It says, our 2 Yukon Kuskokwim Subsistence Regional Advisory Council 3 recommended to modify the closure for WCR20-40 to open 4 Unit 18 south of Kanektok River to only Federally- 5 qualified subsistence users. That was the..... 6 7 MR. ANDREW: I could move to eliminate 8 the closure for WCR20-39..... 9

10 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I think..... 11 12 MR. ANDREW: Because Western Interior 13 already made that recommendation too. 14 15 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Eva, Sue, do you 16 want to correct..... 17 18 MS. WORKER: If I understand your 19 question, the Eastern Interior Council has not -- or 20 sorry, the Western Interior Council has not voted on 21 this one because it's not a crossover for them. 22 23 MR. ANDREW: Because originally we 24 recommended that we would defer it to their Council and 25 just to support them, we could ask them to eliminate 26 that closure because then if the recommendation by 27 their own Council already. 28 29 MS. WORKER: The YK Delta Council made 30 that recommendation on WCR20-38. 31 32 MR. ANDREW: Uh-huh. 33 34 MS. WORKER: On WCR20-39 this Council 35 is the home region. And so the Western Interior 36 Council hasn't made a recommendation on that -- on the 37 area. 38 39 MR. ANDREW: So we don't have to make a 40 recommendation..... 41 42 MS. WORKER: Sorry. 43 44 MR. ANDREW: .....on it. Because it's 45 just defer to their Council -- Western Interior 46 Council. 47 48 MS. WORKER: I think I got my numbers 49 wrong there. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 203

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: We're at WCR20- 2 40. 3 4 MS. WORKER: That's correct. 5 6 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. 7 8 MS. WORKER: So I'm going to go back 9 and correct myself. WCR20-39 is the one that the

10 Western Interior Council made a recommendation on but 11 WCR20-40 is the area in the Kanektok and Goodnews 12 drainages that we're on. 13 14 (Pause) 15 16 MR. ANDREW: But right over there it 17 says we don't have to make a motion on it then because 18 it's already in the books. 19 20 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Uh-huh. 21 22 MS. WORKER: That's correct. 23 24 MR. ANDREW: Thank you. 25 26 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any further 27 comments or questions. 28 29 Go ahead, Mr. Landlord. 30 31 MR. LANDLORD: It was recommended last 32 year, to modify the closure. 33 34 MR. ANDREW: Last spring. 35 36 MR. LANDLORD: Okay. 37 38 MR. ANDREW: Last winter. 39 40 MR. LANDLORD: Last winter. 41 42 MR. ANDREW: Yeah. 43 44 MR. LANDLORD: Okay. 45 46 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I don't hear or 47 see any more further comments on opening up Kanektok 48 area we'll go ahead and move on to the next one. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 204

1 (No comments) 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead. 4 5 MS. WORKER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 6 This is the last closure review. This is WCR20-43 and 7 it begins on Page 53 -- sorry 52 of your book. 8 9 And this is for Unit 19A remainder. So

10 that includes the western portion of Unit 19A as well 11 as the Lime Village Management Area. 12 13 The OSM conclusion is to maintain the 14 closure in Western Unit 19A but eliminate the closure 15 for the Lime Village Management Area. We also 16 recommend to establish seasons, harvest limits and 17 permit requirements in the Lime Village Management area 18 that mirror the current State regulations and remove 19 the regulatory language about quotas and permits and 20 delegate authority to the Yukon Delta Refuge manager to 21 set quotas and permit numbers via a delegation of 22 authority letter only. 23 24 The YK Delta Subsistence Regional 25 Advisory Council voted to defer to the Western Interior 26 Council, and that Council recommended maintaining the 27 closure in Western Unit 19A and eliminating the closure 28 in the lime Village Management Area but did not specify 29 seasons or harvest limits. So their recommendation was 30 similar to the OSM recommendation, it just didn't go 31 quite as far in that it didn't specify seasons or 32 harvest limits. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 35 Charles. 36 37 MR. CHARLES: So that proposal is open 38 for non-residents -- I mean only residents and non- 39 residents closed, is that right? 40 41 MS. WORKER: When you say non- 42 residents, do you mean residents outside the State of 43 Alaska? 44 45 MR. CHARLES: For those communities. 46 47 MS. WORKER: So right now the 48 regulation says that Federal public lands are closed to 49 the taking of moose except by residents of Tuluksak, 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 205

1 Lower Kalskag, Upper Kalskag, Aniak, Chuathbaluk, 2 Crooked Creek hunting under these regulations. And 3 then it says that the Refuge manager of the Yukon Delta 4 National Wildlife Refuge in cooperation with the BLM 5 Field Officer manager will establish annual harvest 6 quotas and the number of permits to be issued in 7 coordination with the State Tier I hunt. 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any further

10 comments. 11 12 Go ahead, Mr. Phillip. 13 14 MR. PETER: Madame Chair. I got 15 question, how many permit -- Tier II permit holders 16 hunt that area? 17 18 MS. WORKER: I don't know how many 19 hunters hunt that area and I'll have to look, my 20 understanding was it was not a Tier II hunt, but hold 21 on one minute. 22 23 (Pause) 24 25 MR. RUNFOLA: Madame Chair. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, state 28 your first name and last name and affiliation please. 29 30 Thank you. 31 32 MR. RUNFOLA: Dave Runfola, Alaska 33 Department of Fish and Game, Subsistence. 34 35 Just the Department has issued, since 36 the beginning of the Tier II hunt in Western 19A, the 37 Department issues about 200 permits a year. And there 38 is a proposal before the Board, there are several 39 proposals before the Board to change that regulation -- 40 or -- the Board of Game, that is, to change that 41 regulation and the Board of Game will meet on those 42 proposals in March in Fairbanks in 2020. 43 44 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 45 Runfola. 46 47 Any further comments or questions. 48 49 (No comments) 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 206

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: It looks like 2 we're good here, Sue. 3 4 MS. WORKER: That's the end of the 5 closure reviews. 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you so 8 much. I greatly appreciate you guys putting all this 9 together.

10 11 That brings us to Item B under old 12 business and we're going to be going into the .805(c) 13 report, information update on Federal Subsistence Board 14 actions. 15 16 Ms. Eva, take it away. 17 18 MS. PATTON: Thank you, Madame Chair 19 and Council. There was a typo in the production of the 20 meeting book so your annual report was inserted in this 21 spot rather than the .805(c) report, so we did include 22 an enclosure with the packets that got mailed to you 23 and Tom is passing out the correct .805(c) report for 24 you. 25 26 So the Federal Subsistence Board met on 27 April 15th through the 18th, 2019 to deliberate and 28 take action on proposed changes to subsistence fish and 29 shellfish regulations. And this letter enclosed, in 30 that report, identifies the action taken on proposals 31 affecting residents of the Yukon Delta region. And 32 this is part of the Board's responsibility to the 33 Councils under ANILCA. So this is .805(c) of the 34 Alaska National Interests Land Conservation Act. And 35 it provides that the Board will accept the 36 recommendations of the Regional Advisory Council 37 regarding take,so the harvest, or take, of fish and 38 wildlife unless the recommendation is not supported by 39 substantial evidence; the recommendation violates 40 recognized principles of fish and wildlife management 41 or adopting the recommendation would be detrimental to 42 the satisfaction of subsistence needs. So when a 43 Council's recommendation is not adopted, the Board is 44 required by Secretarial regulations to set forth their 45 basis and reasons for making a decision contrary to the 46 Council's recommendation. 47 48 So that's what this .805(c) report 49 entails and enclosure. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 207

1 And so at that meeting, as you'll see, 2 the Board did make recommendations consistent with this 3 Council's recommendations. And the way that the Board 4 is structured, is they have a consensus agenda where 5 everybody involved in making recommendations on the 6 Council, so other Councils that might meet on this, and 7 the State and Federal recommendations as well, if they 8 have a consensus agenda they lump that together, that 9 they concur on those issues and a non-consensus agenda

10 when there's differing recommendations for a particular 11 proposal. 12 13 And in both cases, the Board did adopt 14 this Council's recommendations, both for the consensus 15 agenda and under the non-consensus agenda proposals. 16 17 And there are some that the Board 18 adopted the Council's recommendation but with a 19 modification and there's an enclosure that spells out 20 what the Council's recommendation was and how the 21 Board's recommendation differed. 22 23 But overall, all of the Council's 24 recommendations were adopted by the Board in full or 25 with a slight modification. 26 27 And those fisheries proposals went into 28 regulation then this summer. So they were adopted and 29 put into regulation. 30 31 Thank you. 32 33 And if you have any questions, you can 34 let me know. 35 36 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 37 Charles. 38 39 MR. CHARLES: So that recommendation is 40 Item -- tried to -- they want them same as the others 41 or is it different than that one or what? 42 43 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 44 Thank you, James, for that question. 45 46 So for each of this Council's 47 recommendations, so if this Council had recommended to 48 oppose a proposal..... 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 208

1 MR. CHARLES: Uh-huh. 2 3 MS. PATTON: .....the Board also 4 opposed that proposal. And if this Council recommended 5 to support a proposal, the Board also made the same 6 recommendation to support the proposal. 7 8 So in all cases the Board supported 9 this Council's actions and your recommendations and

10 there were just a few where they supported the 11 Council's recommendation but made a slight 12 modification. And so that's what the enclosure -- the 13 enclosure helps describe where there was a slight 14 difference in the Board's action. But whether it was 15 to oppose or to support, the Board went with the 16 Council's recommendation when they made their decision 17 on these proposals. So they concurred with the Council 18 in every proposal recommendation. 19 20 Thank you. 21 22 MR. CHARLES: Thank you, Eva. 23 24 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any further 25 comments or questions on our letter. 26 27 (No comments) 28 29 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay, hearing 30 none, we'll go ahead and move on to new business -- 31 thank you, Eva. 11, under new business, Item A, 32 wildlife proposals, OSM wildlife and anthropology. 33 34 Welcome Sue. 35 36 MS. WORKER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 37 38 MS. PATTON: And, Madame Chair and 39 Council, if I may -- we have some new Council members 40 here, to just briefly walk through the process of 41 making recommendations on proposals. 42 43 So before Suzanne starts, she'll be 44 providing an overview of each proposal that's coming 45 before the Council. 46 47 And then this is the bulk of the 48 Council's work, so you're making recommendations on 49 these proposals to the Federal Subsistence Board. And 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 209

1 so we have a public process and guidance that's on the 2 back of your nameplates. 3 4 So we will start with the analysis, and 5 Suzanne will provide an overview and the background of 6 both the current wildlife population, the management 7 history, customary and traditional use, and subsistence 8 harvest and uses in the region. 9

10 And then we provide to the Council -- 11 so that was step one, and then we provide a report on 12 the Board consultation. So prior to the Council 13 meetings, the Federal Subsistence Board does consult 14 with tribes and ANCSA Corporations. Usually this takes 15 place on a teleconference forum in advance of the 16 meeting. And so we report back on any tribal 17 consultations. 18 19 We also have agency comments. So we 20 hear from ADF&G, from the Federal land managers, and 21 also tribal comments. 22 23 And we cover Advisory group comments. 24 So if other Regional Advisory Councils have met and 25 made a recommendation on this proposal prior to the 26 Council meeting we provide updates on that. If any ACs 27 -- State ACs have met and provided recommendations and 28 also Subsistence Resource Commissions, which we don't 29 have any in this region but they're a subsistence 30 commission for the Park Service. 31 32 And then we provide a summary of 33 written public comments. So comments that were 34 submitted in the written format, in a letter. 35 36 And then we have an opportunity for 37 public testimony, if there's anyone from the public 38 that would like to provide comments on a proposal. 39 40 Then the Council goes into deliberation 41 to make a recommendation. So it's a formal motion to 42 adopt, and you can adopt a proposal, adopt with an 43 amendment, you can oppose a proposal, or in some cases, 44 as we discussed with the wildlife closure reviews, a 45 Council -- where there's crossover proposals, where 46 communities from this Council's region have C&T to hunt 47 or fish in another region, you have the opportunity to 48 make recommendations on those proposals, but there's 49 time when the Council may wish to defer to the other 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 210

1 RAC region. And so those are all options for the 2 Council. You can defer or take no action on a proposal 3 if the Council wishes to do so. 4 5 And then we want to justify the 6 Council's actions. So the deliberation or discussion, 7 talk about if there's a conservation concern or how the 8 recommendation will address the concern, and, you know, 9 talk about is the recommendation, you know, what the

10 biological evidence is, the traditional ecological 11 knowledge in that recommendation and will the 12 recommendation be beneficial or detrimental to 13 subsistence needs or users and will the recommendation 14 unnecessarily restrict other users. So those are thing 15 to keep in mind. So when the Council makes a motion, 16 have a full discussion on the record for the 17 justification for that motion. 18 19 Then we restate the final motion and 20 take a vote. 21 22 And that's the final process. 23 24 So for each of these proposals that are 25 coming before you we'll follow this process on the back 26 of your card here. 27 28 Thank you. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 31 32 You guys ready to rock and roll. 33 34 (Laughter) 35 36 (Council nods affirmatively) 37 38 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yep, they're all 39 nodding their heads, go ahead, Suzanne. 40 41 MS. WORKER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 42 So I have several wildlife proposals to go over with 43 you. The first is WP20-32/33 and this is for moose in 44 Unit 18. The analysis for this one begins on Page 85 45 of your books. And before I start I want to tell you 46 that this has to do with that moose closure in the 47 Kanektok and Arolik drainages that we just discussed. 48 It is a separate regulatory action though. The closure 49 review is something that our office just reviews 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 211

1 periodically and this is actually a proposal that we 2 received. But the two are very similar in their 3 content. 4 5 So WP20-33 -- well, these proposals 6 were submitted by the Togiak National Wildlife Refuge, 7 who manages the Federal lands there. 8 9 WP20-33 requests that the moose hunt in

10 the portion of Unit 18, south of and including the 11 Kanektok River drainages to the Goodnews River drainage 12 be enlarged to match the existing State hunt area 13 boundary. 14 15 So if you look at the map on Page 88, 16 you'll see that it shows the differences in the State 17 and the Federal hunt areas. 18 19 So the State hunt area is a little 20 bigger, it encompasses the entire area between the Eek 21 River drainage in the north down to the Goodnews River 22 drainage in the south. But the Federal hunt area is 23 smaller and it excludes several of those small 24 drainages that are between the Eek and the Kanektok 25 drainages. 26 27 So WP20-33 asks to align these Federal 28 and State boundaries by changing the Federal hunt area 29 boundary. 30 31 WP 20-32 requests that the Federal 32 public lands closure within this hunt area be rescinded 33 and that a season be established for Federal users. 34 35 Federal public lands have been closed 36 in this area since 1991 so there has never been a 37 Federal season here. The State season has been open 38 since about 2005. And somewhere along the line as the 39 regulations were changed in surrounding areas and the 40 hunt areas were defined and adjusted the State and the 41 Federal hunt areas became misaligned, like I doubt that 42 it was intentional. 43 44 I want to note that WSA19-01 made this 45 same request for the existing regulatory year, for the 46 2019 hunting season and that request was approved by 47 the Board earlier this year. So this year only there 48 is a Federal hunting season there but that regulatory 49 change is only good for one year so this proposal is to 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 212

1 make that same change indefinitely. 2 3 For a long time there were really no 4 moose in this area to speak of but beginning in about 5 2012 the population began to grow pretty significantly 6 and in 2018 it was estimated that there were 173 moose 7 in the Kanektok and the Arolik drainages. The last 8 time estimates of composition were made, which was in 9 2017, there were 43 bulls to 100 cows and there were 29

10 calves to 100 cows. 11 12 Through the 2018/2019 regulatory year, 13 harvest within the State's hunt area was administered 14 with a State harvest ticket. So that's the green tag. 15 16 Reported harvest has been low under 17 this system, averaging just four moose per year between 18 2003 and 2018 but a better estimate of harvest probably 19 comes from household surveys which suggests that there 20 is more harvest than that happening. Beginning this 21 regulatory year, so 2019, the fall [sic], implemented 22 their hunt using a registration permit rather than a 23 harvest ticket and the expectation is that with time 24 reporting in this area will improve. 25 26 In terms of the effects of this 27 request, it makes a lot of sense to align the Federal 28 and the State boundaries, obviously from a compliance 29 and enforcement standpoint, having uniform State and 30 Federal boundaries are better just so that people don't 31 have to keep track of two boundaries. But it also 32 makes sense biologically. 33 34 So the last thing that I want to talk 35 about is the effect that this request might have on 36 neighboring communities. Quinhagak is the only 37 community within this hunt area and we expect that most 38 of the harvest will come from residents of that 39 community. However, residents of neighboring 40 communities, Eek, probably, in particular, will be 41 affected if the proposed regulatory change happens, if 42 they want to hunt in this hunt area. Specifically the 43 State registration permit will only be available in 44 Quinhagak, which will probably limit participation by 45 non-locals, but it could also limit legal participation 46 by subsistence users from neighboring communities who 47 will have to travel to Quinhagak first to get a permit. 48 When we took this issue to the public and the tribes, 49 as part of the work that we did for WSA19, the special 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 213

1 action request, we didn't hear any concern about this 2 and so it's something to keep an eye on, but it's not 3 something that we think would make us not support the 4 request at this point. 5 6 And so the OSM preliminary conclusion 7 is to support WP20-32/33. 8 9 Thank you, Madame Chair.

10 11 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Sue. 12 13 Mr. Charles. 14 15 MR. CHARLES: So that proposal is for 16 us to make decision uh -- okay, I'll make a motion that 17 we adopt that proposal. 18 19 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Anyone want to 20 second. Motion made by Mr. Charles. 21 22 MR. ANDREW: Second. 23 24 MR. BROWN: Second the motion. 25 26 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Second by Mr. 27 Andrew. Now we're into discussion. Go ahead did you 28 want to discuss anything further. 29 30 MR. MAXIE: Chair Madame. 31 32 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Maxie. 33 34 MR. MAXIE: Is that closure due to low 35 number of moose there, would there be a percentage of 36 -- I mean person living in a village about 300 or 400 37 people in there, and there's over 100 moose in there, 38 there's only the people who hunt there, is the people 39 from that community, now the ratio -- there's a moose 40 population and there's hardly anybody that goes there 41 except Quinhagak, and Eek, they have their own river, 42 but is it due to a low number of moose that's why it's 43 closed to Federally-qualified users. 44 45 MS. WORKER: Thank you, Mr. Maxie. 46 Through the Chair. Yes, the reason Federal public 47 lands have been closed is because there wasn't very 48 many moose there. But because there hasn't been very 49 much hunting and it seems like moose have come in from 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 214

1 neighboring areas, there's many more moose and so we 2 think that there's probably enough moose that we can 3 support more harvest and open Federal public lands so 4 that people can hunt there. 5 6 MR. MAXIE: Thank you. 7 8 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Suzanne, I had a 9 quick question. Do we have number of non-residential

10 hunters that have ever gone to that area or -- because 11 I know it's a good hot spot for fishing. I don't know 12 if I might have passed that. 13 14 MS. WORKER: In State regulation there 15 is no non-resident season, there is a resident season 16 that's open September 1st to September 30th, and that 17 is by State registration permit. It had been by 18 harvest ticket but this year they changed it to a State 19 registration permit. 20 21 (Pause) 22 23 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Slats, go 24 ahead. 25 26 MR. SLATS: Thank you, Madame Chair. I 27 was looking at Page 90 at the top of the paragraph, in 28 our meeting in March the -- we supported the opening of 29 Federal public lands only to Federally-qualified 30 subsistence users, and then on Page 92, towards the 31 bottom of that first paragraph it says that, the 32 modification to delegate authority to the Federal 33 manager to close public lands to non-Federally- 34 qualified users ensures that Federal subsistence 35 priority can be provided if needed. So if we declared 36 an emergency or -- then the subsistence users would 37 only be the ones that are qualified or it would be open 38 to them. 39 40 MS. WORKER: It's kind of a complicated 41 answer, but, the short answer is yes. 42 43 So there's actually three regulatory 44 actions that we're talking about right now. The thing 45 that you pointed out on Page 90, that's the closure 46 review that we just talked about and the recommendation 47 that this Council made was to open Federal public lands 48 only to Federally-qualified subsistence users. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 215

1 Then what you referred to on Page 90 is 2 the Federal Subsistence Board's action on a special 3 action request, which was to establish a season in that 4 area. And they opened Federal public lands to everyone 5 but the Board wanted to make sure that there was a 6 mechanism to close lands except to Federally-qualified 7 subsistence users in case there was an influx of 8 people. Because, Madame Chair, is correct, that is a 9 big sportfishing river and so they do get quite a bit

10 of traffic from non-local people. 11 12 And so then the third regulatory action 13 before you is this proposal. 14 15 And so if you have any thoughts about 16 the best way to approach that is, the Board would be 17 very interested to hear that. 18 19 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Does that answer 20 your question, Mr. Slats -- go ahead, Mr. Slats. 21 22 MR. SLATS: Yeah, thank you, Madame 23 Chair. The reason why I was asking about opening and 24 closure to -- for the Federally-qualified subsistence 25 users was mainly because I was late for a flight in one 26 of my travels and then I had to check in for a later 27 flight and there was a group of these people that were 28 checking in late and then, you know, how you and me 29 would -- if we were hauling our meat, we would be more 30 worried about our coolers, you know, the meat in our 31 coolers, what these people were more worried about, 32 antlers, you know, they were checking in six antlers 33 and then what began to bother me at a later time is 34 that there were no coolers. They weren't checking in 35 coolers or any of the meat that went along with where 36 those antlers came with. So I was just beginning to 37 wonder if this is going on more times than not. 38 39 So that's just the point I want to make 40 about, you know, like the Federally-qualified 41 subsistence users and that point, that I wanted to 42 make. And it was just recently. 43 44 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any further 45 discussion or comments. 46 47 Go ahead, Mr. Landlord. 48 49 MR. ADERMAN: Madame Chair. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 216

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: We have Mr. 2 Landlord, and what was your name? 3 4 MR. ADERMAN: Andy Aderman with Togiak 5 Refuge. 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 8 Aderman, you'll be after Mr. Landlord. 9

10 Go ahead, Mr. Landlord. 11 12 MR. LANDLORD: Okay, thank you, Madame 13 Chair. On the State registration permits, how does 14 that work, is it just a harvest ticket or what? 15 16 MS. WORKER: No, it's different than a 17 harvest ticket. A registration permit you have to get 18 in advance, and I believe you give them your name and 19 your contact information and then you're required to 20 report after your hunt, even if you didn't catch 21 anything. In this case, those permits are available 22 only in Quinhagak. And one of the things that that 23 will probably do is it will limit the amount of non- 24 local people who come to hunt in that area because they 25 have to go Quinhagak first to get a permit and then if 26 they want to float the river, for instance, they'd have 27 to go up the river and then they'd float down the river 28 and then they'd probably fly out of Quinhagak again. 29 And so that's why the permit is only available in town, 30 but it is different than a harvest ticket. 31 32 MR. LANDLORD: Thank you. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any further 35 comments. 36 37 MR. LANDLORD: No. Thank you. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Good. 40 41 Go ahead, Mr. Maxie. 42 43 MR. MAXIE: Madame Chair. I had one 44 more question that popped up. 45 46 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead. 47 48 MR. MAXIE: Thank you. How do you 49 recognize non-Federal qualified users and the 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 217

1 Federally-qualified user because there's all kinds of 2 -- nowadays -- I mean like this generation, there's 3 half village corporation, they look like non-Natives 4 but they are -- do you know what I mean, nowadays, kind 5 of mixed, how do you recognize a person, do they need 6 some kind of ID, like when you go to different 7 countries, you need a Visa Card, that they recognize 8 that you're a United States citizen, is it similar to 9 that.

10 11 Thank you. 12 13 MS. WORKER: So Federal subsistence 14 regulation applies to rural users, not only to Native 15 users. and so if you live in a rural community in 16 Alaska then you might be a Federally-qualified 17 subsistence user. It depends on the species. But if 18 you look at the Federal regulation book for every unit, 19 for every species, there's a list of communities 20 usually, or residents of the unit who are eligible to 21 hunt for that species. And so determining whether or 22 not you're a Federally-qualified subsistence user, it 23 just depends on where you live and that's on your 24 Alaska State hunting license. 25 26 MR. MAXIE: Okay. Thank you. 27 28 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Maxie, in 29 your brown hunting book on Page 6 it'll tell you you 30 are -- or are you a rural Alaskan residents and it 31 talks about the qualifications to be an Alaska 32 resident. 33 34 MR. MAXIE: Okay. 35 36 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: And then also we 37 have C&T determinations for that area. 38 39 MR. MAXIE: Okay. Thank you. 40 41 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: So like if 42 teachers who are there forever, who are staying there 43 for 30-plus years or anybody else who wants to live 44 there and claims that as their home, their permanent 45 residence, they're a Federally-qualified user. 46 47 MR. MAXIE: Oh, okay. Thank you. 48 49 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: You're welcome. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 218

1 Is there anyone else on line that would like to 2 comment. 3 4 MR. ADERMAN: Yes, Madame Chair, it's 5 Andy Aderman with Togiak Refuge. 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you Mr. 8 Aderman for your patience. 9

10 MR. ADERMAN: Yes, I was just going to 11 point out yesterday in my Staff report I mentioned that 12 25, 30 years ago we hardly had any moose on the Togiak 13 Refuge, now we have over 3,000. This population has 14 moved from east to west and as it has moved into the 15 Togiak area, Unit 17A, a State and Federal hunt were 16 opened jointly using a State registration permit. The 17 next area to open was the Goodnews area, the very 18 southern portion of Unit 18, again, a joint State and 19 Federal hunt using a State registration permit. And we 20 haven't seen a lot of outside use other than the local 21 communities in either the 17 or the Goodnews hunt. And 22 we expect that would be the same in the area that 23 you're discussing under this proposal. 24 25 That's all I had. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 28 Aderman. 29 30 Any further comments. 31 32 (No comments) 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: If not, does 35 somebody want to call it. 36 37 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 40 Oney. 41 42 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. 43 Ray Oney for the record. I would be in support of this 44 proposal and recommended by OSM, and required to have a 45 permit because this is just a small area that we're 46 talking about, small population that is in this area 47 that it will open up for hunting and I'm sure that Fish 48 and Game would manage it very closely as far as meeting 49 the quota for that. So I'd be in support of this 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 219

1 proposal. 2 3 Thank you. 4 5 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 6 Oney. 7 8 I, too, would be in support of this 9 proposal based on the given information that this is a

10 small hunt, it's going to be open to the people and the 11 tickets are being sold out to just the -- not sold, but 12 given out to the residents of that area or, and only 13 within that area. 14 15 Go ahead. 16 17 MR. JONES: Madame Chair. This is 18 Patrick Jones, Alaska Department of Fish and Game. I 19 just wanted to go on the record and say the Department, 20 the State is in support of this proposal and it would 21 align both State and Federal regulations and make 22 things a lot easier both for the public and the hunters 23 and the Department and then the use of the registration 24 permit gives us a lot of tools to restrict things if we 25 need to, or change things, and it gives us a lot of 26 flexibility if we run into problems in the future. 27 28 So right now this looks like a good and 29 positive thing and brings everything into alignment. 30 31 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 32 Jones. 33 34 Well, if we don't have any more 35 comments or questions, does someone want to call it for 36 us. 37 38 MR. CHARLES: Question. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Question has been 41 called. All those in favor of this proposal say aye. 42 43 IN UNISON: Aye. 44 45 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Anyone who 46 opposes say aye now. 47 48 (No opposing votes) 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 220

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. We'll 2 go ahead on now to the next proposal, Ms. Suzanne. 3 4 MS. WORKER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 5 The next proposal up is WP20-34 and this one starts on 6 Page 104. 7 8 This proposal was submitted by the 9 Yukon Delta National Wildlife Refuge and it requests

10 that the mink and weasel trapping season in Unit 18 be 11 extended from the current season, which runs November 12 10th to January 31st to a longer season of November 13 10th to March 31st, so this would align the Federal and 14 the State season. 15 16 Like many furbearers mink and weasel 17 abundance hasn't been quantified so we don't know..... 18 19 MS. PATTON: Madame..... 20 21 MS. WORKER: .....really how many 22 numbers there are. 23 24 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair. I'm so 25 sorry. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Eva. 28 29 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 30 I was remiss in our process here. I was busy taking 31 notes and I forgot we do need to follow the procedure 32 so we make sure that everyone's recommendations are 33 considered. We did hear, I think, the position from 34 the State but we do need to follow the procedures. If 35 we may, just back up and provide that information to 36 the Council. 37 38 My apologies. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 41 42 All right, did we have any tribes or 43 ANCSA Corporations. 44 45 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 46 We didn't get any formal comments on this proposal. 47 There was quite a bit of engagement with the special 48 action request. So there is some overlap there. But 49 no comments specific to this proposal. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 221

1 Thank you. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any of the 4 Advisory group comments. 5 6 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 7 This proposal comes just before this Council, this 8 Regional Advisory Council, ACs have not taken this up 9 yet. They are meeting, coming up into the future here.

10 So -- and there are no SRCs. Similarly, there were no 11 written public comments that were submitted for this 12 proposal. 13 14 But we did want to allow opportunity 15 for any public testimony as well. So if there's 16 anybody from the public here or anybody on 17 teleconference that wanted to comment on this proposal. 18 19 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Are students from 20 yesterday, did you guys want to comment on the moose 21 proposal -- no, okay. 22 23 24 (No comments) 25 26 MS. PATTON: Okay, thank you very much, 27 Council, and my apologies, I was busy taking notes and 28 forgot our own process here. So thank you very much. 29 And the intention is to just to make sure that we make 30 this a full public process and the Council hears from 31 everybody that would like to comment on this. So we'll 32 follow that for the next proposals here. 33 34 Thank you. 35 36 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Eva, are we good 37 on the discussion, justification for this with the 38 discussion that we've had or did you need more in- 39 depth? 40 41 MS. PATTON: Yes, we had several 42 Council members that spoke to the in support of this 43 proposal. That provided ample justification. 44 45 Thank you. 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 48 All right, we'll go on to WP20-34, go ahead, Suzanne. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 222

1 MS. WORKER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 2 So as I mentioned WP20-34 requests that the mink and 3 weasel trapping season be extended in Unit 18. So 4 currently it ends on January 31st and the request is to 5 extend it to March 31st. And this would align the 6 Federal season with the State season. 7 8 So as with many furbearers, mink and 9 weasel abundance hasn't been quantified, but trappers

10 report the species to be common and neither increasing 11 nor decreasing. 12 13 For mink, specifically, it's believed 14 that over harvest is rare and that habitat 15 deterioration is the primary threat. Mink are targeted 16 for their fur, which attains prime condition in late 17 November and then begins to deteriorate. So to take 18 advantage of this, trapping typically begins as soon as 19 travel conditions allow and then most mink are 20 harvested during the first few weeks of the season. 21 22 Weasels are usually caught incidentally 23 to other species unless they're targeted as a nuisance. 24 And because these species are not required to be sealed 25 we don't really know how many are harvested but results 26 of household surveys the harvest is well below what it 27 was 30 or 40 years ago. 28 29 If the proposal is adopted, Federally- 30 qualified subsistence users will have additional 31 opportunity to trap mink and weasel under Federal 32 regulation, though this opportunity already exists in 33 State regulation, so there's expected to be no actual 34 effect. Given that, and the fact that most harvest 35 occurs early in the season the proposal isn't expected 36 to jeopardize the conservation status of either mink or 37 weasel in Unit 18. 38 39 So the OSM preliminary conclusion is to 40 support WP20-34. 41 42 (Teleconference interference - 43 participants not muted) 44 45 (Pause) 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 48 Charles. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 223

1 MR. CHARLES: I call for question. 2 3 REPORTER: No, you don't have a motion 4 yet. 5 6 (Laughter) 7 8 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Motion first. 9

10 (Laughter) 11 12 MR. CHARLES: Uh? 13 14 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Motion first. 15 16 (Laughter) 17 18 MR. MAXIE: Chair Madame, I make a 19 motion for this. 20 21 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 22 Maxie, can I get a second. 23 24 MR. CHARLES: Second. 25 26 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 27 Charles. We'll go on to discussion now. Any comments 28 or questions on this proposal. 29 30 Go ahead, Mr. Andrew and then Mr. 31 Slats. 32 33 MR. ANDREW: Thank you, Madame Chair. 34 My name is John Andrew from Kwethluk. Many years ago 35 when I was a young boy I used to go with my dad and 36 some of my uncles, they trapped mostly for mink and 37 otter, my father never used to target mink, but 38 incidentally catch them on otter traps and blackfish 39 traps, not very many but he used to catch them. But 40 the tundra -- people in the tundra villages back in 41 those years and the coastal areas used to catch -- in 42 some years they'd catch more than 10,000 mink. This 43 area was renowned for the largest amount of mink 44 harvest and the pelts were well taken care of by those 45 old trappers. Now, they're gone after the fur price 46 crashed in the -- probably in the start of the mid'80s, 47 not too many people trapping them no more except as 48 incidental catch. And if I do catch them myself, I 49 give them away to the ladies that do skin crafts and 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 224

1 make them into parkas or booties or something of that 2 nature. 3 4 Same way with weasel. We don't -- 5 because we rarely target them because unless they're 6 raiding your fish cache or your porch, the kids trap 7 them with the little lumber traps or big giant 8 mousetraps, rat traps. 9

10 (Laughter) 11 12 MR. ANDREW: I've done that before when 13 I was a little kid, too. I'd be very proud if I catch 14 one, little tiny weasel. That was part of my training, 15 trapping experience with my family, they'd usually let 16 me trap for mouse and weasel, give the mouse to my dogs 17 and sometimes use the mouse for bait for other animals. 18 19 Then after the population exploded on 20 beaver we started seeing less and less mink. And I 21 used to ask my uncles and my dad and my uncles and 22 other elder trappers, why is this, because whenever 23 those beavers dam up an area they always flood out the 24 mink denning areas. That's what the major destruction 25 was of those population -- the population of exploded 26 and mink crashing down, I think it was the same way 27 with muskrats. Some of those denning areas were 28 flooded out, too, by the beaver dams. 29 30 And some severe winters when the ice is 31 too thick they starve under -- they can't come out and 32 they starve under, down there. 33 34 Those are some of the experiences I had 35 when growing up in a trapping family. 36 37 Madame Chair. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 40 Andrew. 41 42 Mr. Slats. 43 44 MR. SLATS: Thank you, Madame Chair. I 45 believe we may have discussed furs last spring and 46 there was a point that was brought out about not having 47 any fur buyers in our area. I thought that was 48 something that was raised. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 225

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Uh-huh. 2 3 MR. SLATS: And so I just wanted to 4 also point out that there also needs to be -- adjust 5 the open and closures to lake freeze-ups and early 6 thaws if we're doing this. 7 8 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Anybody else. 9

10 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. 11 12 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Ray. 13 14 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. 15 Ray Oney for the record. I'd be in support of this 16 proposal. I think, you know, to at least extend the 17 season to March 31, and I think this one -- when -- 18 people can harvest not only for to generate a little 19 bit of income but to be able to support cultural and 20 traditional values that are beginning to spring up in 21 the schools. Because a lot of times, you know, the 22 schools do get involved with furbearing arts and crafts 23 and it seems like a majority of the time they go out to 24 Goldberg or someplace out where there's a commercial 25 buyer -- or commercial person that -- entity that, you 26 know, deals with furs. So do it locally, I guess that 27 would give a chance for people to generate a little bit 28 of income and to be able to support their local schools 29 that are doing arts and crafts. 30 31 And that's something, you know, that 32 I'd like to see more of, you know, of our resources, 33 that we depend on, not only for income but also to 34 continue our way of living. And, you know, with fur 35 bearing animals, you know, you see a lot of these 36 parkas and things that are made, you know, with 37 expertise and you don't see too much of that nowadays. 38 I think that should be -- people in each village, 39 should support at their schools when they're doing 40 stuff like this. 41 42 So I would be in full support of making 43 the weasel and mink available. Because I do trap 44 weasel, just during the wintertime, and I could get 45 them right outside my door but I see them running 46 around everywhere, and like I said I would be in 47 support of this proposal. 48 49 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 226

1 Oney. 2 3 Anyone else. 4 5 MR. CHARLES: Now, I call for -- Madame 6 Chair, I call for question. 7 8 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: We got to go 9 through and ask if there's any more consultation from

10 the tribes and ANCSA Corporations. Any agency advisory 11 group comments or any written public comments. 12 13 Eva. 14 15 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 16 So the Board did hold tribal consultation on the 17 Wildlife Proposals coming before you today, we did not 18 get any formal comments from tribes or ANCSA 19 consultations -- or ANCSA corporations on this 20 proposal. 21 22 We would like to check with our agency 23 partners, any comments from ADF&G. 24 25 MR. JONES: Madame Chair. Patrick, 26 Fish and Game for the record. 27 28 Fish and Game supports this proposal 29 and kind of see it more as a bookkeeping [sic] proposal 30 to bring everything into alignment. There is 31 absolutely biological concern with people overtrapping 32 mink or weasels right now. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, 35 Patrick. 36 37 Any Federal comments on this. 38 39 (No comments) 40 41 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any tribal 42 governments. 43 44 (No comments) 45 46 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Hearing none..... 47 48 MS. PATTON: One moment please. Do we 49 have anyone on line who would like to provide Federal 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 227

1 comments. 2 3 (No comments) 4 5 MS. PATTON: Hearing none, go ahead 6 Madame Chair, I thought I heard one. 7 8 REPORTER: You're hearing the people 9 who are not muted.

10 11 MS. PATTON: Oh okay. 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do we have 14 anybody in the public or public testimony that would 15 like to speak on this proposal. 16 17 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. Ray Oney for 18 the record. 19 20 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Ray. 21 22 MR. ONEY: Yeah, I kind of missed out 23 on the Advisory Council committee, I sit on the Coastal 24 Lower Yukon Advisory Committee, we're scheduled to meet 25 sometime in the month of December so we do not have any 26 comments to the proposal before us. 27 28 Thank you. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 31 Oney. Any further public testimony or comments. 32 33 (No comments) 34 35 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Now, you 36 can, Mr. Charles, go ahead and call for question. 37 38 (Laughter) 39 40 MR. CHARLES: Question. 41 42 (Laughter) 43 44 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right, 45 question's been called. All those in favor say aye. 46 47 IN UNISON: Aye. 48 49 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All those 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 228

1 opposed, same sign. 2 3 (No opposing votes) 4 5 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Hearing none, 6 let's go ahead and move on to WP20-34. 7 8 Go ahead, Suzanne when you're ready. 9

10 MS. WORKER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 11 We just completed WP20-34, so I believe we're on WP20- 12 35. 13 14 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Excuse me, my 15 apologies. 16 17 MS. WORKER: We're moving right along. 18 19 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: yes. 20 21 MS. WORKER: This one begins on Page 22 115 of your meeting materials. 23 24 WP20-35 was submitted by the Yukon 25 Kuskokwim Delta Subsistence Regional Advisory Council 26 and it requests that within the Kuskokwim moose hunt 27 area of Unit 18 a may be announced winter moose season 28 be established between December 1st and January 31st 29 with a harvest limit of one antlered bull by State 30 registration permit. 31 32 The proponent views this as an 33 opportunity to fill -- what has often been an unmet 34 Federal quota during a time of year when access is 35 better and temperatures are more conducive to meat 36 preservation. 37 38 This population has grown significantly 39 since 2004 which was the first year -- was the year 40 that the five year hunting moratorium was implemented 41 and at last count, which was in 2015 the population was 42 estimated to be nearly 1,400 moose and though it 43 continues to grow it's still below the State's 44 population objective of at least 2,000 moose. In 2016 45 there were 70 bulls to 100 cows, which is well above 46 the minimum population objective of 30 to 100. 47 48 Hunting in the Kuskokwim hunt area is 49 broken down into two zones so in Zone 1, which is 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 229

1 comprised primarily of State lands is located along the 2 main stem of the Kuskokwim River. And the season and 3 the harvest quota for the main stem hunt are managed by 4 ADF&G. Zone 2 is comprised primarily of Federal public 5 lands, including the major tributaries of the Lower 6 Kuskokwim. And in this area the season and the quota 7 is managed by the Yukon Delta National Wildlife Refuge. 8 9 Demand for moose is very high along the

10 Kuskokwim, and along the main stem the quota is 11 typically met within days of the season opening. On 12 Federal land, however, the quota hasn't been met in 13 several years. And it's believed that this has more to 14 do with the challenges of hunting in the tributaries 15 than it does a lack of demand for moose. Throughout 16 the hunt area harvest is dominated by residents of the 17 15 communities that are eligible to harvest moose on 18 Federal public lands. So those are the 15 communities 19 that I read into the record earlier when we were 20 talking about the closure reviews. 21 22 If this proposal is adopted, it will 23 result in additional subsistence opportunity for those 24 who reside within the hunt area. It may result in 25 additional harvest, but it isn't expected to pose a 26 conservation concern to the Kuskokwim moose population 27 because harvest will continue to be managed by quota. 28 29 The OSM preliminary conclusion is to 30 support WP20-35. 31 32 Thank you, Madame Chair. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Sue. 35 Did we have any Board consultation from tribes and 36 ANCSA Corporations. 37 38 Eva. 39 40 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 41 We did not have any tribal comments or comments from 42 ANCSA Corporations on this proposal during the 43 consultation. 44 45 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: ADF&G. 46 47 MR. JONES: Madame Chair. Patrick 48 Jones, Alaska Department of Fish and Game. So 49 currently the Department is opposed to this proposal. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 230

1 We're opposed for a couple reasons. 2 3 This would have to remain a bull hunt 4 so this would mean we'd have to hunt early, November, 5 December, probably, before they lose their antlers. 6 But the other part of it, is as Suzanne said, there's a 7 high demand for this hunt area. We give out between 8 1,400 and 1,500 permits in September for this hunt. 9 And in many years, actually almost every year that

10 we've had the hunt in the last 11 years on the 11 Kuskokwim, we've had single days where we've harvested 12 over 50 moose and -- in one day. So the potential for 13 people to harvest moose is very fast on this river. 14 And like we said, we normally reach the quota in Zone 1 15 and we've done it in as early as four days. This year 16 it was a seven day season. 17 18 So it goes fast. Also the other thing 19 that happens is in the winter is access gets better to 20 Federal lands, well, everywhere in the unit, especially 21 in Zone 2, there's no leaves, the moose are more 22 visible, there's snow. 23 24 And the remaining quota -- so this 25 would be a hunt for bull moose and it would be the 26 bulls that we didn't harvest during the September hunt 27 so it'd be whatever was remaining. So now we're 28 talking about 40 or 50 moose, if we used the last two 29 years, for example, that we'd roll over. So we kind of 30 see it as kind of an administrative nightmare right now 31 on how you would do that effectively and fairly, how 32 you'd give out permits and how we'd manage it. Because 33 we could easily overharvest in a single day if we gave 34 out permits to 1,500 people like we do in September. 35 36 The other issue, too, is that this hunt 37 would have to -- we'd still have to retain the Zone 38 1/Zone 2 hunt. There's Federal lands in both zones. 39 Zone 1, the main stem river is mostly State managed 40 lands and Zone 2 is mostly Federal managed lands, but 41 we -- like I said, we reach our quota in Zone 1, so 42 we'd only want to have this hunt in Zone 2 if we had it 43 at all. And so the State's recommendation is to not 44 support the winter hunt, but if he wanted to provide 45 additional opportunity, it would be to extend the fall 46 hunt, either start it early in August or have it go 47 later into October, that way we're talking about one 48 season, we're all on the same permit because we're 49 currently using a joint State/Federal permit in the 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 231

1 fall season. And if people continue to harvest moose 2 to all the way to the end of September, if we extended 3 that longer, we could probably reach the additional 4 40/50 animals in a more manageable place, and a more 5 reasonable pace. 6 7 And then we'd ask that you submit a 8 proposal on the State side so we can keep everything 9 mirrored at the same -- ideally we'd keep on using one

10 permit and we could maintain the Zone 1/Zone 2 thing so 11 we can keep our harvest where we want our harvest and 12 where we need it. 13 14 The other stuff, too, we've done some 15 surveys recently, browse removal surveys, so in years 16 like we've had -- the last few years where we don't get 17 snow in the winter, we can't do a population survey 18 which is really what we want, but instead of doing 19 nothing, the Alaska Department of Fish and Game and the 20 local Refuges, we've been pooling our money together 21 and our resources and we've been doing what we're 22 calling browse removal survey and what that really 23 estimates is, of the food available to moose in the 24 winter, how much are they using and when they reach 30 25 percent removal rates that's when we start seeing 26 populations decline. So if we look at the Yukon, from 27 Marshall up stream to above Russian Mission, we see 28 removal rates currently around 28 percent and we're 29 also seeing that moose population starting to drop. 30 31 But if we talk about where we're going 32 to hunt here on the Kuskokwim -- well, I don't have 33 that number in front of me, but we did it on the main 34 stem Zone 1, and we did it also in the tributaries in 35 Zone 2, and we found in Zone 1 the removal rate is in 36 the teens so we could potentially have twice as many 37 moose as we currently have now, and the tributaries 38 it's even lower than that, so we have like one-third of 39 the moose we could possibly have, which is all a long- 40 winded way of saying, we still have a lot of potential 41 to grow the population here, we're not anywhere near 42 the tipping point and so there's no biological reason 43 that we need to absolutely get these moose right now, 44 we're still trying to grow that population. 45 46 With that said, we still have healthy 47 bull/cow ratios, high twinning rates, and our 48 population's still growing fast. So there's a lot of 49 potential for us to -- we're getting away with a high 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 232

1 harvest right now just because everything's going our 2 way. We have a lot of food available and as we -- as 3 that population grows and we're starting to see removal 4 rates get higher, closer to 30, we'll probably continue 5 to liberalize and liberalize, but we haven't reached 6 the point right now where we biologically need to kill 7 these moose, they're just moose that we could 8 potentially harvest and right now the State's opinion 9 is if we wanted to do anything, we should probably just

10 extend the fall season and not start a winter hunt just 11 yet. 12 13 Thank you. 14 15 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, 16 Patrick. October, what date would you like to -- would 17 it be more preferable? 18 19 MR. JONES: Madame Chair. I guess -- 20 I'd say at least two weeks, maybe three weeks of 21 October. 22 23 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: October 15th? 24 25 MR. JONES: Sure. October 15th, 26 October 20th would probably be a good place to start, 27 it'd probably get us really close to where we're 28 looking for. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay, thank you, 31 Patrick. Any questions for Patrick. 32 33 Go ahead, Mr. Phillip. 34 35 MR. PETER: Yeah, Patrick, I will not 36 support this in the winter hunt for bull moose because 37 we kill in September, and when the breeders for cows, 38 we got more cows than bulls but some how in the future 39 we need hunt winter hunt cows, because of the 40 populations and, you know, if we over populated the 41 moose in the Kuskokwim it will be a big disaster for us 42 if we over populate moose in the Kuskokwim, just like 43 Yukon, you know, the willow -- willow. And I think 44 because if we hunt them in winter with snowmachine, 45 they still have antlers, they'll still have their 46 antlers and -- the antlers drop off in like January or 47 February, something like that. 48 49 Yeah. And I will not support this 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 233

1 winter hunt for -- in our region for bulls. If we over 2 harvest those bulls, it would take a long, long time to 3 wait for moose to increase. 4 5 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 6 Oney. 7 8 MR. ONEY: Yeah, thank you, Madame 9 Chair. Ray Oney for the record. Pat, would you be

10 willing to support a one bull harvest from December 31 11 to January 31 because it sounds like the YK RAC, on 12 this proposal, is to request for an additional winter 13 season for moose in the Kuskokwim hunt area of Unit 18. 14 So it doesn't say -- it could be cow, or calves, or -- 15 so just asking if you'd be in support of even a one 16 antlered bull from December 31 to January 31. 17 18 Thank you. 19 20 MR. JONES: Through the Chair. Thank 21 you, Mr. Oney. So at this point the Department's 22 stance is if there was a hunt it would have to be for 23 bulls only. But we get so close to reaching the quota 24 we have in September, which is a bull only hunt, that 25 we see a lot of administrative hurdles on how this hunt 26 would be structured and administrative, and handled. 27 We'd either have to do a very limited number of permits 28 or it might just be a one or two day season. It'd be a 29 very stressful thing for managers and hunters with just 30 a small quota and 1,500 hunters for an antlered bull. 31 32 So right now I think the Department's 33 recommendation is that we either extend the fall season 34 either on the beginning into August or on the tail end 35 into October, or both. That would provide the 36 additional opportunity to reach the quota in Zone 2. 37 38 But as the other member, Mr. Phillips 39 [sic] mentioned that we're not quite ready to, at the 40 point, biologically, where we need to harvest cows. 41 That day is coming and it's probably going to be a few 42 years yet. I mean at the rate the population is going 43 we will probably need to start talking about a cow 44 harvest within the next five years, we're just not 45 there yet. 46 47 We're very fortunate that this 48 population is growing as fast as it is. They've had 49 really easy winters the last few years, the moose are 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 234

1 fat, we have young animals, two year olds having 2 calves, we see high twinning rates in the high 40s, low 3 50s, which is pretty amazing, and high survival rates, 4 and we still have strong bull/cow ratios. 5 6 But the difference between the 7 Kuskokwim and the Yukon is a couple of things. 8 9 First off, we don't have as much

10 habitat on the Kuskokwim as the Yukon does. The Yukon 11 has a lot more moose habitat. And the other big 12 difference is the Kuskokwim has a lot of people on it. 13 I think Madame Chair said 17,000 yesterday and I 14 haven't done the math from the last -- but that's in 15 the ball park, the Yukon has a fraction of that, 16 they're probably under 5,000 and they have smaller 17 villages and they're farther apart. And on the Yukon 18 right now they have conservatively 17,000 moose so they 19 have a lot more moose than people. On the Kuskokwim, 20 if I looked at Zone 2, the last estimate was in 2015 21 for 508 moose and Zone 1, we had 1,400 moose four years 22 ago, and so if I was going to look at growth rates and 23 guess how many moose we had now, I'd probably say we 24 were at 700 moose in Zone 2 and probably 1,800 moose in 25 Zone 1. So we're probably cracking -- we're getting 26 over 2,000, we're probably close to 2,500 moose on the 27 Kuskokwim, but I mean that's nothing like the 18,000 28 that we're seeing on the Yukon. And we're never going 29 to get to that number on the Kuskokwim, we don't have 30 that kind of habitat but we could probably double what 31 we have, probably get up to 6,000 moose on the 32 Kuskokwim, which would go a long way to meeting 33 people's needs. 34 35 But anyway we're monitoring the browse 36 removal in the winter -- the winter habitat, the 37 willows, and when we see that getting into the mid-20, 38 or -- for removal rate or maybe even the low 20s we're 39 going to start talking about a cow harvest so we can 40 stabilize the population. We're not there yet, we are 41 harvesting some cows on the Kuskokwim now and that's 42 through our cultural mortuary request. So if there's 43 -- typically that comes to the Department in the form 44 of a funeral, on the 30 day feast or the one year feast 45 and that's where a village can request to harvest a 46 moose out of season for one of those potlatches and 47 typically people harvest cows -- people do harvest a 48 few bulls but we get about 20 to 30 of those requests a 49 year, so if we had 30 requests I'd suspect we'd kill 20 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 235

1 cows and 10 bulls typically. so we have a small cow 2 harvest going on now and we're not ready for additional 3 harvest on top of that, cow harvest. 4 5 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 6 Jones. Go ahead, Mr. Andrew. 7 8 MR. ONEY: Thank you. 9

10 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Oh..... 11 12 MR. ONEY: Follow up. 13 14 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. -- is that 15 you Mr. Oney? 16 17 MR. ONEY: I was going to follow up if 18 I may. 19 20 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Andrew and 21 then Mr. Oney. 22 23 MR. ANDREW: Thank you, Madame Chair. 24 For the record this is John Andrew from Kwethluk. 25 26 I agree with Mr. Peter -- Phillip Peter 27 and with you, we're not ready for a winter hunt. 28 Because I used to be a trapper many years ago up in the 29 hills, I used to watch them -- I watched the moose at 30 the end of the fall rutting season and they don't need 31 extra stress out there. Especially nowadays the 32 weather's always like this. Last year and then in Zone 33 2, the rivers never froze solid the whole winter, they 34 stayed open and we had a hard time where we used to go 35 -- traditional crossing of the trials, when we get to 36 them they were still open and running. Sometimes when 37 the moose slip -- when it's this icy, they can't get 38 out -- they have trouble getting -- they die right 39 there. Same way when they fall through thin ice on the 40 lakes, if there's no traction below them, they have 41 trouble getting up, even a single wolf can kill them. 42 We've seen that in the past. 43 44 And another thing is, too, right after 45 the rutting season, the meat's no good for another two 46 or three months, they're tough and lean and stinky. 47 48 I'm sorry to say that. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 236

1 (In Yup'ik) 2 3 INTERPRETER: Since those of us who 4 hunt, once they're..... 5 6 MR. ANDREW: And the other part is if 7 it says antlered moose season and there's no way you 8 can not easily identify them, I've seen their antlers 9 fall off by middle of December. Early as middle of

10 December and by middle -- a little -- by the 20th of 11 December they're practically all the healthy ones -- 12 they shed their antlers except for some reason, once in 13 a blue moon you'll see some with antlers on, then 14 there's something wrong with them, physically, or 15 they're too old. 16 17 And that's all the info I know. 18 19 Madame Chair. 20 21 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 22 Andrew. 23 24 Mr. Oney. 25 26 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. 27 Ray Oney for the record. Thank you, Pat, for that 28 update regarding to my question. 29 30 As you know we're dealing with the 31 Mulchatna Caribou Herd, I guess they're on the decline 32 and continue to do so as we speak, and I guess we're 33 going to be dealing with -- allowing the reduction in 34 the caribou, and there's going to be more demand for 35 moose as a result of that -- and from your comments you 36 expect to see a cow, calf harvest probably in the near 37 future, I think that will be helpful to, you know, to 38 the declining caribou population, the Mulchatna Caribou 39 that are in decline. 40 41 So after hearing your comments, you 42 know, I'm maybe a little hesitant to be in support of 43 this also, maybe four or five years down the line we 44 probably could come back and revisit this until things 45 are, you know, stable or the population has grown and 46 then we could probably consider it. But as Mr. Phillip 47 and John Andrew mentioned, you know, I think it's too 48 premature right now, too, to open up a moose -- any 49 moose hunt for the Kuskokwim area, because they just 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 237

1 recently opened up the moratorium, you know, it was a 2 short moratorium, not compared to the one that we had 3 here on the Yukon, it was a little over 7 years the 4 moratorium altogether, and the Kuskokwim moratorium was 5 just, you know, recently, like a very short time but 6 yet the moose populated. Until, you know, I'm 7 comfortable with Fish and Game in support of any moose 8 then I'm reluctant to support what we have, even though 9 it was submitted by YK, our Council.

10 11 Thank you, Madame Chair. 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 14 Oney. 15 16 Mr. Charles. 17 18 MR. CHARLES: Thank you, Madame Chair. 19 I live close to (In Yup'ik) but I'm against that 20 proposal because people from (In Yup'ik) and (In 21 Yup'ik) in fall time, the treeline and open at (In 22 Yup'ik) so I am against that proposal now. Because 23 they would wipe away -- people from the coast would 24 wipe away the animals. So next year they want to hunt 25 back where -- back where we are but I live not to far 26 from there so I am against that proposal. 27 28 Thank you. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Slats. 31 32 MR. SLATS: Thank you, Madame Chair. I 33 have a question if you would consider one bull and 34 pulling back from December 1 to January 31, to December 35 1 to December 30 or December 15 to January 15, or 36 January 1 to January 31? 37 38 MR. JONES: Through the Chair. Mr. 39 Slats. I guess right now the State's plan -- or the 40 stance on this is we would be against the winter season 41 and partly -- mostly it's administrative things. We'd 42 have to come up with a good plan on how we're going to 43 do this. Either we're going to have to really limit 44 the number of permits we'd give out, like only -- for 45 example if we wanted to shoot 40 animals, limit it to 46 40 or 50 permits, how we would administrate that or how 47 we'd decide who got the permits, all that stuff would 48 take a lot of work. Not that we can't do it, we just 49 don't have a good plan for it now, how we would do that 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 238

1 fairly so everybody feels like they have a chance. 2 3 And then, ideally, we'd have it on -- 4 it'd be a State and Federal proposal so we could use 5 one permit and maintain the Zone 1 and Zone 2 structure 6 so we can get the harvest where we need it or where we 7 can support it. 8 9 So at the moment the State's just

10 opposed to the winter season until we have maybe either 11 down the line where we have more moose or we can afford 12 cows, you know, there's a bunch of things coming, I 13 think, in the near future but we're just not quite 14 ready for it yet and we should have more discussions on 15 how that hunt looks before we open it. 16 17 And Mr. Andrew's observations are right 18 on the money when we looked at -- when we looked at 19 bulls with antlers in the past, 50 percent of them have 20 dropped their antlers by December 15th and then by 21 January they're almost always all gone. There's always 22 a few animals that have antlers but typically it's the 23 very young animals that keep their antlers, the longest 24 and the older animals, the ones that went through rut 25 are the ones that really drop their antlers first. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Brown. 28 29 MR. BROWN: Yeah, I do support the 30 earlier opening for moose hunting season because those 31 bucks bother the meat, you know, I would rather go to 32 September 1st to maybe close at middle part of -- like 33 the 15th. And I was going to say more but Trapper John 34 described the meat is, it kind of tastes funny after 35 October. 36 37 Thank you. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right, thank 40 you, Patrick. 41 42 Do we have any tribal agencies, tribal 43 government agencies. 44 45 (No comments) 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any Advisory 48 comments, Eva. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 239

1 MS. PATTON: Mr. Chair -- Madame Chair 2 -- apologies. We just need to check in with Federal 3 agencies if we have anyone from the Refuge that would 4 like to comment -- okay, not at this time. 5 6 Thank you. 7 8 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any public 9 comments.

10 11 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair. We don't 12 have any of the Advisory group comments yet, as Ray had 13 noted, the ACs will be meeting later this month and we 14 don't have any public comments on this either. 15 16 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Pat. 17 18 MR. SAMSON: Thank you, Madame Chair. 19 Pat Samson, public. 20 21 I would not support -- I would ask the 22 Board not to support this because last year, just 23 purely on the safety aspect, last year on December 24 24 there was a family traveling from Bethel to Akiachuk 25 and they fell in the river and sadly one was deceased 26 and found and succumbed to the elements there. And 27 shortly before that there was a blowout below Johnson 28 (ph) River where a fourwheeler fell in and a week 29 before that it was raining so there was like people 30 that came from Kasigluk to Bethel, they had to go 31 through six to 12 inches of water and they had a heck 32 of a time trying to get back onto the ice. And so just 33 on that safety aspect I would ask the Board not to 34 accept this proposal. 35 36 Thank you, Madame Chair. 37 38 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Pat. 39 Thanks for reminding me about how dangerous our river 40 conditions are during the month of December and 41 January. 42 43 Anyone else, public, teleconference. 44 45 (No comments) 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Anybody else. 48 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 240

1 (No comments) 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right. 4 5 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Ray. 8 9 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair.

10 Ray Oney for the record. What is the process, we still 11 have to put on the agenda for us to vote up or down, or 12 -- the majority of comments related to this are mostly 13 in opposition, so I don't know what the process is. At 14 the time that we submitted it, because of the moose 15 population, you know, so we were in support and asking 16 for additional hunt for people that haven't had moose, 17 a moose hunt for these people to harvest -- so now that 18 I've heard, you know, the State's comments, I don't 19 know what the process is. What do we do here. 20 21 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Ray. 22 So we've gone through the process to take up this 23 proposal and we haven't had -- I believe that we would 24 go in with support of this proposal, get a second, 25 finish our discussion and justifications and then when 26 we go to the final vote you would vote to oppose so 27 this proposal would die. But it still has to go in 28 front of the Federal Subsistence Board because it's 29 already gone through the Kuskokwim River process. 30 31 So can I get a motion to support this 32 proposal. 33 34 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. I move to 35 support WP20-35. For the record Ray Oney. 36 37 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Ray. 38 Can I get a second. 39 40 MR. CHARLES: Second. 41 42 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 43 Charles. 44 45 Eva, do you have enough justification 46 during our discussion that we've had for..... 47 48 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 49 Yes that was excellent discussion and questions and so 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 241

1 we have a full justification for the Council's vote. 2 3 Thank you. 4 5 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 6 If there's no more further comments question is -- can 7 we go ahead and get a call for the question. 8 9 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. Maybe just

10 for clarification make sure that they understand that 11 you would vote -- it's put on the table to support and 12 if they want to see a hunt they would be in support of 13 it, opposing it means we do not want to see a winter 14 hunt. So make that clarification before you put it out 15 for a vote. 16 17 Thank you. 18 19 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Ray. 20 So you guys understand, if you want to support this 21 proposal for a winter hunt and then if you oppose, that 22 you don't want the winter hunt. 23 24 Yeah. 25 26 MR. ANDREW: Say that again. 27 28 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: So if you -- when 29 we go to -- do you want to do just a roll call or a 30 unanimous, Eva. I think..... 31 32 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 33 At the wish of the Council, if Council members would 34 like to make further comments on this we can do a roll 35 call vote, otherwise we can do a call -- do you see any 36 interest from the Council if you would prefer a roll 37 call vote or all in favor. 38 39 MR. CHARLES: All in favor. 40 41 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. 42 43 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: So, John, if you 44 support for a winter hunt you'd say yes -- when we say 45 all in favor you'd say yes. When I say all opposed, 46 you'd say aye for if you don't support it. 47 48 Yes for yes and no for no. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 242

1 Okay. 2 3 You guys got it, yeah. 4 5 (Council nods affirmatively) 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yeah. Good. 8 9 (Council nods affirmatively)

10 11 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Landlord, you 12 good. 13 14 MR. LANDLORD: Yes. 15 16 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Ray, you're good 17 to go. 18 19 MR. ONEY: Yeah, I think we're good. I 20 was going to say exactly what you did, but, yes. 21 22 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Can I get 23 a question. 24 25 MR. ONEY: Question. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Ray. 28 All those in favor of a winter hunt say aye. 29 30 (No aye votes) 31 32 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All those opposed 33 to the winter hunt say aye. 34 35 IN UNISON: Aye. 36 37 (Laughter) 38 39 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. 40 41 MS. PATTON: Motion to oppose, eight 42 oppose, two absent, motion failed. Thank you. 43 44 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I'd like to 45 entertain that we have a break, if that's okay -- five 46 minutes, 10. 47 48 10 minute break. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 243

1 Thank you. 2 3 (Off record) 4 5 (On record) 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, folks 8 for your patience, it looks like we have everyone here 9 and all set and ready to go. We're going to call this

10 meeting back to order at 3:36 p.m. And we are on our 11 next agenda item, which is, correct me if I'm wrong, 12 WP20-27, and we have Ms. Robbin in front of us. 13 14 Thank you, Robbin, go ahead. 15 16 MS. LAVINE: Thank you, Madame Chair. 17 Members of the Council. For the record my name is 18 Robbin LaVine, and I am an anthropologist with the 19 Office of Subsistence Management. 20 21 (Audience interruptions) 22 23 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Excuse me. 24 25 MS. LAVINE: This and the next three 26 wildlife proposals are crossover proposals, they take 27 place in other areas outside of your region but they're 28 relative to your region because you have C&T for these 29 particular species. 30 31 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Robbin, do you 32 want to explain C&T. 33 34 MS. LAVINE: Thank you. Customary and 35 traditional use determinations for let's say caribou, 36 or wolves and wolverine or moose in areas that are 37 adjacent to yours or throughout the state. 38 39 So Wildlife Proposal 20-27 begins on 40 Page 132 of your Council book. And this was submitted 41 by the Bristol Bay Subsistence Regional Advisory 42 Council, and this proposal requests a unit specific 43 regulation for Unit 17 allowing use of a snowmachine to 44 assist in the taking of caribou and allowing caribou to 45 be shot from a stationary snowmachine using the 46 regulatory language adopted by the Alaska Board of Game 47 in February 2018. And that regulatory language, if 48 you'd like to look, can be found on Page 134 of your 49 Council books. And I'll read it to you just so that 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 244

1 you can follow along with me. 2 3 And that specific regulatory language 4 states: 5 6 In Unit 17 a snowmachine may be used to 7 assist in the taking of the caribou and caribou may be 8 shot from a stationary snowmachine. 9

10 Assist in the taking of a caribou means 11 a snowmachine may be used to approach within 300 yards 12 of the caribou at speeds under 15 miles per hour in a 13 manner that does not involve repeated approaches or 14 that causes a caribou to run. 15 16 A snowmachine may not be used to 17 contact an animal or pursue a fleeing caribou. 18 19 So that's the language proposed. 20 21 The proposal was submitted by the 22 Council at the recommendation of a working group that 23 consisted of representatives from the public, the 24 Bristol Bay Regional Advisory Council, the Bristol Bay 25 Native Association, the Togiak National Wildlife 26 Refuge, the Alaska Department of Fish and Game, the 27 Office of Subsistence Management, and State and Federal 28 law enforcement officers. 29 30 The proponent states that keeping State 31 and Federal hunting regulations aligned and simple will 32 be more understandable for all users. 33 34 So some recent regulatory history to 35 keep in mind. 36 37 In 2017 a proponent from Manokotak 38 submitted Proposal 18-24 and that proposal requested 39 that Federally-qualified subsistence users be allowed 40 to use a snowmachine to position caribou, wolves and 41 wolverine for harvest in Unit 17 provided the animals 42 were not shot from a moving vehicle. He submitted the 43 same proposal, 148, to the Board of Game. After some 44 discussion of Wildlife Proposal 18-24, this proposal 45 was opposed by the Bristol Bay Regional Advisory 46 Council. Subsequently at its February meeting, 2018, 47 the Alaska Board of Game adopted Proposal 148 with 48 modification. And that modification limited this 49 proposal to the taking of caribou, shot from a 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 245

1 stationary snowmachine with further clarification 2 describing exactly how the snowmachine may be used for 3 assistance and this resulting in the regulatory 4 language that's in the proposal before you. 5 6 Immediately following -- well, in April 7 2018 at the Federal Subsistence Board meeting some 8 public testimony was received in support of Wildlife 9 Proposal 18-24, the Board deliberated the proposal on

10 record and rejected it. 11 12 Wildlife Proposal 20-26 is also before 13 you, I'll be covering that shortly, it was also 14 submitted by the Bristol Bay Regional Advisory Council 15 and it requests allowing a hunter on a snowmachine in 16 Unit 17 to position wolves and wolverines and I'll 17 cover that shortly. 18 19 If adopted, Wildlife Proposal 20-2 will 20 provide regulatory language describing snowmachine use 21 for the purposes of hunting caribou in Unit 17. It 22 will also align State and Federal regulations on 23 snowmachine use while hunting caribou in Unit 17. The 24 proposed regulation is not expected to result in 25 significant population changes for caribou as 26 snowmachines are already used extensively in Unit 17 to 27 access hunting grounds and harvest numbers will 28 continue to be managed by seasons and limits within 29 regulation. 30 31 The use of snowmachines for subsistence 32 purposes is a traditional practice in the Bristol Bay 33 area and statewide. Public testimony and discussion at 34 Council and Board meetings affirms the significance of 35 snowmachine use to the subsistence way of life while 36 seeking guidance on issues of compliance. 37 38 The proposed regulatory language will 39 provide clarity to the hunter on ensuring compliance 40 while using a snowmachine to harvest caribou on Federal 41 lands. Because it mirrors a recent addition to State 42 regulation it will reduce complexity between Federal 43 and State regulations and decrease the potential for 44 inadvertent non-compliance by Federally-qualified 45 subsistence users. This approach was agreed upon by a 46 diverse group of stakeholders as represented by the 47 working group. 48 49 The OSM preliminary conclusion is to 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 246

1 support Proposal 20-27. 2 3 Thank you. 4 5 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, 6 Robbin. 7 8 Mr. Brown. 9

10 MR. BROWN: (In Yup'ik) 11 12 INTERPRETER: The State and Federal -- 13 when they were working together -- when they had 14 different regulations it was very confusing, the other 15 was closed, the other was open so the confusion that it 16 caused was bad. So when you combine both laws it will 17 -- may create confusion as well -- the other one can 18 say they're closed and the other can say they're open. 19 Since we've experienced that before we would like -- 20 I'm thinking that the State and Federal need to align 21 these regulations because the other can say the other 22 one is open and the other one is closed since I 23 experienced that and it was confusing I am bringing it 24 up. 25 26 Thank you. 27 28 MR. BROWN: Quyana. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 31 Brown. Do we have any report on Board consultations. 32 33 (Pause) 34 35 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Eva. 36 37 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 38 We did not have any comments from tribes or ANCSA 39 Corporations on this proposal. 40 41 Thank you. 42 43 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 44 Charles. 45 46 MR. CHARLES: Is there a map for the 47 area that is going to be open on the proposal? 48 49 MS. LAVINE: Through the Chair. Mr. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 247

1 Charles, actually there may not be a map but it is all 2 of Unit 17 so you can find it in your regulation book. 3 And if this proposal was to pass then this regulatory 4 language all across Unit 17 on both State and Federal 5 lands would apply and be consistent. 6 7 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 8 The Unit 18 -- or I'm sorry, Unit 17 map can be found 9 on Page 78 of your wildlife regulatory books. That way

10 you can see where the overlap is. 11 12 MR. CHARLES: Is that 17A and B? 13 14 MS. LAVINE: Yes. And I believe also 15 C. Thank you. 16 17 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 18 So this proposal is asking for that change to be made 19 in the entire Unit 17. 20 21 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Robbin, is this 22 -- did this proposal come out before or after you found 23 out about the caribou population declining to 13,500? 24 25 MS. LAVINE: Thank you, Madame Chair. 26 This proposal has been in the works for a long time, 27 beginning really with the proposal in 2018. The 28 Bristol Bay Regional Advisory Council received the same 29 reports on the Mulchatna Caribou Herd and, of course, 30 they're concern is really grave. This proposal is only 31 about methods for harvesting it's not about harvest 32 limits or seasons. 33 34 Thank you. 35 36 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, 37 Robbin. Do we have any Federal comments on this. 38 39 (No comments) 40 41 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any tribal 42 agencies want to comment on this. 43 44 (No comments) 45 46 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do we have any 47 Advisory Group comments. 48 49 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 248

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Eva. 2 3 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 4 We do want to check in with ADF&G as well for agency 5 comments, if there's any comments on this proposal. 6 7 MR. JONES: Mark Burch. 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mark, are you

10 still on line for ADF&G. 11 12 (No comments) 13 14 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do we have Togiak 15 on line still, Mr. Aderman. 16 17 MR. ADERMAN: Yes, this is Andy 18 Aderman, Togiak Refuge. We support the proposal. 19 20 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do you have a 21 justification why you guys are supporting the proposal? 22 23 MR. ADERMAN: It would align with the 24 current State regulations for the same area. 25 26 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do we have any 27 other Fish and Game, did you want to speak to it 28 Patrick? 29 30 MR. JONES: (Shakes head negative) 31 32 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Did you have 33 anything else you wanted to add Robbin. 34 35 MS. LAVINE: (Shakes head negatively) 36 37 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 38 Charles. 39 40 MR. CHARLES: Madame Chair. I used to 41 hunt in that 17, I think it's 17A, that same day 42 airborne was legal, those years. But when I closed it 43 I don't hunt over there, I'm not flying anymore either. 44 But when I used to fly, I fly in and out that same day 45 airborne legal, but when they closed it I quit flying 46 over there too. But that was part of the 17A and this 47 side was closed and the other side was opened. 48 49 But it was difficult to make the 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 249

1 flight, but I landed on the south side -- or on the 2 east side and same day airborne, I got caribou from 3 there too. But only one time. 4 5 (Laughter) 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 8 Charles. Anyone else. 9

10 Go ahead, Mr. Phillip. 11 12 MR. PETER: This 17A it's Togiak 13 National Wildlife Refuge for caribou hunting by 14 snowmachine. 15 16 MS. LAVINE: (Nods affirmatively) 17 18 MR. PETER: When we, you know, when we 19 go out hunting we don't travel group, we separate and 20 before we do look for caribou, you know, separate, we 21 have to -- and check our lights on snowmachine and then 22 we go and look for caribou and then if middle -- or 23 first second -- first one on the right side, one on the 24 middle side, one on the third side and one on the 25 further, so one guy spotted those caribous. He come 26 toward us and tell us we spotted a caribou and then we 27 go really slow, slow and easy until you get close to 28 shoot. We don't shoot them right away. And we line 29 up, we choose each of us to shoot one caribou, one 30 shot. It's how we hunt caribou. Not chasing them. 31 Not harassing them. We take our time. We take our 32 time. Sometimes it'd take us an hour and a half, or a 33 couple hours, that's how we hunt. One shot, one kill. 34 Not trying to wound the animal, just shoot it and kill 35 it. 36 37 But nowadays those young ones, like my 38 boys, and the other friends, when they were talking 39 about -- they laugh each other -- I told them it's not 40 funny -- it's not funny -- they chased them around and 41 shooting with those automatic .222 guns, wounding a lot 42 of caribous but us, we're told by our elders not to 43 rush when we see an animal, when we hunt, just take our 44 time, shoot it and shoot -- one shot and kill that -- 45 whatever we hunt. So I think when I read this proposal 46 -- deliberated the proposal on record and rejected on 47 Page 137, they rejected this proposal because maybe -- 48 maybe because of those hunters are, you know, they -- 49 some hunters are good hunters and some hunters are bad 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 250

1 hunters, you know, they like to do it really quickly, 2 not taking their time. That's how I understand this 3 one. 4 5 Thank you. 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Anyone else. 8 9 Go ahead, Pat.

10 11 MR. JONES: Madame Chair. This is 12 Patrick Jones, Alaska Department of Fish and Game. So 13 I got a hold of Mark, he's in another meeting and can't 14 come to comment right now so I just wanted to give you 15 the State's position. 16 17 So we're officially neutral on this 18 position but we wanted to echo exactly what Member 19 Phillip Peter's mentioned. Any time that chasing's 20 occurring that creates a lot of stress on the animals, 21 especially when it happens repeatedly in a short amount 22 of time. One of the things that happens when animals 23 get run a lot is they get lactic acid buildup in their 24 muscles, the same way you and I would if we worked out 25 a lot. But the problem with caribou, it can build up 26 to the point where they're getting muscle death, and 27 I've seen this out here. I've necropsied a caribou I 28 found up by Three Step, that were just laying dead, and 29 I've necropsied them, and what you see when they get 30 this lactic acid build up, if you cut their hind leg -- 31 the muscle in the hind leg you'd see the tissue death 32 and it looks white. It dies and it kind of turns 33 white. And that's because they've been run too much, 34 too stressed. So any time that that's happening, it's 35 bad for the herd. 36 37 So I guess that -- that ends our 38 comments. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: What was it 41 called again, lac -- what -- say it for me. 42 43 MR. JONES: Lactic acid build up. 44 45 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 46 47 MR. JONES: Yeah. Yeah. 48 49 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 251

1 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 4 Oney. 5 6 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. 7 For the record Ray Oney. I would be in support of 8 Proposal 20-27. As we heard there's been a concerted 9 effort by different agencies over these issues that

10 helped put this together in the Bristol Bay area and I 11 would be in full support of their efforts to put this 12 on as a proposal because of the different support that 13 they got from that region. 14 15 I would be in full support of this 16 proposal. 17 18 Thank you, Madame Chair. 19 20 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 21 Oney. 22 23 All right, do we have any more public 24 testimony or public comments. 25 26 (No comments) 27 28 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay, so..... 29 30 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 31 32 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead. 33 34 MS. PATTON: We got just a little ahead 35 of ourselves for public testimony. 36 37 So this proposal was submitted by the 38 Bristol Bay region, the Regional Advisory Council, and 39 they did take action on the proposal and supported it. 40 41 Thank you. 42 43 (Pause) 44 45 MS. PATTON: And their preliminary 46 justification from their discussion, so they're in 47 support of WP20-27 and they felt it would clarify 48 Federal regulations and will align with the recent 49 State of Alaska hunting regulations to reduce 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 252

1 regulatory complexity between Federal and State 2 regulations. The Council supports the proposal stating 3 it's a longstanding practice among rural residents of 4 the region and any conservation concerns can be 5 addressed through regulatory changes to protect the 6 caribou herd, if necessary. 7 8 And so that was the recommendation from 9 the Bristol Bay Federal Subsistence Regional Advisory

10 Council. 11 12 Thank you. 13 14 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Just 15 clarification question, Eva, so Bristol Bay was opposed 16 to this before or -- go ahead, Robbin. 17 18 MS. LAVINE: Thank you, Madame Chair. 19 If we look back and track, kind of like the regulatory 20 history, the proposal that was taken up and rejected, 21 for one, it didn't have the clarifying language and it 22 actually requested that a hunter be able to position a 23 caribou rather than position themselves. So -- and, 24 again, there was a lot of uncertainty in regards to 25 what that might mean and a lot of challenge, 26 potentially, to law enforcement in recognizing that 27 behavior. The Bristol Bay Regional Advisory Council, 28 when they took up that proposal, ultimately, rejected 29 that proposal. And then found that when the Board of 30 Game took up the very same proposal, they separated -- 31 because they had asked for positioning of caribou, 32 wolves and wolverine, and what the Board of Game did, 33 is they separated that out, and only addressed caribou 34 and they described -- they came up with this language 35 so they felt that this language would provide greater 36 guidance and clarity to the hunters so that they could 37 be sure that they were in compliance. 38 39 So after that happened, the Bristol Bay 40 Regional Advisory Council wanted to mirror that 41 language. That language was not taken up at the 42 Federal Subsistence Board and so that's where we're at 43 now, that's why this proposal came forward is to look 44 for that guidance, that clarity, and consistency across 45 both Federal and State lands. 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: So the language 48 that we're looking at right now is State language, is 49 that correct? 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 253

1 MS. LAVINE: (Nods affirmatively) 2 3 MR. SLATS: Madame Chair. I had a 4 question. 5 6 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 7 Slats. 8 9 MR. SLATS: I had a question about

10 these crossover proposals from the Bristol Bay region. 11 I'm wondering if we're from this area, if we're able to 12 refer back to them for them because they're -- it seems 13 to me that this decision would be up to them whether 14 they wanted to move forward with them or not, and then 15 we're from another area. 16 17 MS. LAVINE: Through the Chair. Mr. 18 Slats. If you look on Page 135, and you look at the 19 bottom of the page, you see customary and traditional 20 use determinations so when Suzanne was talking about 21 how we determine the Federally-qualified subsistence 22 user, we look at people who are rural residents, which 23 you are, and then we look at people who' customary and 24 traditional patterns of harvesting a particular 25 resource, an animal or fish, and in a particular area 26 and you'll see that people from this area have a 27 customary and traditional pattern of use in Unit 17 as 28 well. And so if anyone wanted to, you actually could 29 hunt under these regulations in Unit 17. 30 31 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 32 And also to respond to Mr. Slats' question. Yes, it is 33 the call of the Council whether a Council would like to 34 take action. As Robbin mentioned, people hunt in Unit 35 17 and right on the border of Unit 18, but the Council 36 can also make a recommendation to defer action on the 37 proposal to the Council in Unit 17. 38 39 So this Council has a full range of 40 options to oppose, to support, to support with 41 modification, or to defer or take no action. 42 43 Thank you. 44 45 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Okay, did 46 we conclude with the group comments, public comments, 47 is there any public comments, public testimony. 48 49 (No comments) 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 254

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Anybody on 2 teleconference that would like to speak to this 3 proposal. 4 5 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. I move to 6 support Wildlife Proposal 20-27. 7 8 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: So a motion..... 9

10 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 11 Just to let the Council know there was one written 12 public comment submitted for this proposal in 13 opposition. 14 15 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Let's -- we have 16 a motion on the floor, let's finish with the process 17 first, thanks Eva, and we'll get right back to you. 18 19 We have a motion on the floor from Mr. 20 Ray Oney, can we get a second. 21 22 MR. PETER: Madame Chair. Second. 23 24 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 25 Phillip. Now, we're into further discussion. 26 27 Go ahead, Eva. 28 29 MS. PATTON: Sorry, Madame Chair and 30 Council. Just trying to complete the public process. 31 So under No. 5, the summary of written public comments. 32 There was one written public comment on this proposal 33 in opposition. 34 35 Thank you, Madame Chair. 36 37 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do you have the 38 language on that. 39 40 MS. PATTON: There wasn't a full letter 41 included with it, it was in opposition to it, so I 42 don't have the details of the letter. 43 44 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay, thanks. 45 46 (Pause) 47 48 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Robbin. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 255

1 MS. LAVINE: Thank you, Madame Chair 2 and members of the Council. If you turn to Page 171. 3 This proposal -- this letter,public comment was 4 submitted, I think, addressing a number of different 5 proposals, including 20-26 [sic] -- oh, no, I'm so very 6 sorry. Corrected, it doesn't address 20-27 [sic]. 7 8 Thank you. 9

10 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any further 11 discussion, justifications. 12 13 (No comments) 14 15 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Anyone else from 16 the Council. 17 18 (No comments) 19 20 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Anybody else. 21 22 Mr. Landlord. 23 24 MR. LANDLORD: What was Ray's motion, 25 how did he make it. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: It was a motion 28 to support. 29 30 MR. LANDLORD: Support, okay, thank 31 you. 32 33 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I, personally, if 34 I may, I'd like a roll call vote, I, personally will be 35 in opposition to this just based on the fact that our 36 caribou herds are not doing good and I'm full support 37 for having our caribou populations -- the building of 38 -- rebuilding of -- I don't like the word repopulation 39 -- I'm in full support of allowing our population to 40 grow in our caribou herds, because we only have 13,500 41 over a whole vast and not even our own Bethel census 42 area of our Federally-qualified users, there's not 43 enough to fill everyone's freezers. So I'm really 44 concerned about the caribou herd and putting any 45 additional pressure on the caribou herds at this time 46 doesn't make reasonable sense to me. 47 48 So I will be in opposition to this 49 proposal. I can see this maybe five, 10 years down the 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 256

1 road when there's more caribou and there'd be a lot 2 more opportunity to go back out on the snowmachine and 3 hunt caribou then I would take this proposal back up 4 and support it, but at this time with our caribou herds 5 in such a decline that they are, I will not be in 6 support of this proposal. 7 8 Go ahead, Mr. Andrew. 9

10 MR. ANDREW: Thank you, Madame Chair. 11 Earlier I was talking to another young lady over here, 12 she got me thinking on this proposal..... 13 14 (In Yup'ik) 15 16 INTERPRETER: I'm going to speak in 17 Yup'ik because it's much easier to express myself. 18 19 Madame Chair, so I'm going to go 20 through our interpreters. 21 22 It's very easy to travel on a 23 snowmachine in the winter. When we use binoculars, 24 when we see them we can shoot with one shot from a 25 distance and the biologists were saying that the 26 Mulchatna Caribou Herd population has declined in the 27 three years to less than half of what they were three 28 years ago, for that reason I will not support this 29 proposal. They might decimate this herd. For that 30 reason I will oppose this proposal. 31 32 Thank you, Madame Chair. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 35 Andrew. Anyone else. 36 37 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 40 Oney. 41 42 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. 43 Like Pippa [sic] had mentioned that this is to align 44 with the State regulations in this area and this would 45 give the opportunity for our users that are in Unit 18 46 to have that ability to use this regulations when they 47 do go in to hunt caribou. I'm sure Fish and Game, 48 Federal Wildlife people will, you know, keep a close 49 eye on this population because of the declines that 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 257

1 we've heard just recently. But I think we can still be 2 able to put this on the books as far as regulations, 3 but the management, you know, will have to keep a close 4 eye on this population as we see fit to make this 5 regulation work. I think the people -- in support of 6 -- or the people, like James had mentioned that he does 7 caribou hunt down there with an airplane, but now it's 8 a snowmachine, I'm sure he'd still want to go down 9 there as did many people that are -- that still harvest

10 that resource. So I'd rather see it be put in the 11 books now to align with the State and let the 12 management, or Fish and Game or Fish and Wildlife be 13 responsible for the declining population. 14 15 That's my comment, thank you. 16 17 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 18 Oney. 19 20 Anyone else. 21 22 (No comments) 23 24 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Hearing, seeing 25 none, does anyone want to call the question, if you're 26 done with deliberations. 27 28 MR. ANDREW: Question. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 31 Andrew. Question has been called. Eva, do you want to 32 do a roll call, please. 33 34 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 35 And just for clarification, if you'd like to restate 36 the motion and then we'll do a roll call vote. 37 38 Thank you. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 41 Motion on the floor by Mr. Oney is to support the 42 proposal as is, to allow snowmachines to be used in the 43 taking of caribou and allowing caribou to be shot from 44 a stationary snowmachine using regulatory language 45 adopted by the Alaska Board of Game in February 2018. 46 47 MS. PATTON: Thank you, Madame Chair. 48 49 And we'll begin roll call vote and 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 258

1 we'll start from this end. 2 3 Carl Maxie. 4 5 MR. MAXIE: I oppose the WP20-27 due to 6 decreasing number of caribou. Thank you. 7 8 MS. PATTON: Thank you, Carl. 9

10 James Landlord. 11 12 MR. LANDLORD: I oppose the proposal 13 20-27. 14 15 MS. PATTON: John Andrew. 16 17 MR. ANDREW: No. 18 19 MS. PATTON: Richard Slats. 20 21 MR. SLATS: I oppose WP20-27 for 22 population concerns. 23 24 MS. PATTON: James Charles. 25 26 MR. CHARLES: No. 27 28 MS. PATTON: Charlie Brown. 29 30 MR. BROWN: No. 31 32 MS. PATTON: And Phillip Peter. 33 34 MR. PETER: No. 35 36 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair Alissa 37 Rogers. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: What about Ray. 40 41 MS. PATTON: Oh, I'm so sorry, Ray. 42 I'm looking down the line here and I forgot to look on 43 teleconference land. 44 45 And Ray Oney. 46 47 MR. ONEY: Yoo-Hoo, I'm still here. 48 49 (Laughter) 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 259

1 MS. PATTON: Thank you, Ray. We saved 2 the best for last. 3 4 MR. ONEY: Like I mentioned I'd be in 5 full support for people that are in Unit 18 that 6 continue to hunt caribou in that area. I would be in 7 support of it. 8 9 Thank you.

10 11 MS. PATTON: Thank you, very much, Ray. 12 13 And, Madame Chair, Alissa Rogers. 14 15 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 16 I will oppose this proposal because I am in full 17 support of the caribou herd population growing and I 18 don't want to see any more stress or unnecessary harm 19 come to the caribou. And if we could take this 20 proposal up in a couple years from now after the 21 caribou herd has increased in population I would be 22 able to -- I would be for that, but as of right now I 23 am opposing any additional stress and harm to the 24 caribou right now. 25 26 Thank you. 27 28 MS. PATTON: Thank you, Madame Chair 29 and Council. We have seven no in opposition and one 30 support. Motion fails. 31 32 Thank you. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. We're 35 on WP20-28/29 and by Ms. Suzan -- how do you want me to 36 call you, I keep calling you all kinds of cool 37 nicknames. 38 39 MS. WORKER: People call me lots of 40 things. 41 42 (Laughter) 43 44 MS. WORKER: It's Suzanne. 45 46 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 47 48 MS. WORKER: Madame Chair. So..... 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 260

1 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair, I may have 2 just..... 3 4 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, Eva. 5 6 MS. PATTON: I may have just misstated 7 my counting. I thought I said eight opposed and one 8 support, if I did not, that's what I intended to say. 9 So we have eight Council members participating -- nine

10 Council members participating, eight here in person and 11 Ray Oney on the teleconference -- so that was eight 12 oppose and one support. 13 14 Thank you. 15 16 MS. WORKER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 17 This is an overview of the analysis for WP28/29 and 18 this is another crossover proposal. It's for moose in 19 Unit 17A and there are just a few communities in Unit 20 18 who can hunt moose in Unit 17A, and the analysis for 21 this one starts on Page 147 of your meeting materials. 22 It was submitted by the Togiak National Wildlife 23 Refuge. 24 25 WP20-28 requests that the bull moose 26 season in Unit 17A be extended by five days from August 27 25th to September 20th to August 25th to September 28 25th. 29 30 And then WP20-29 requests the addition 31 of an August 25th to September 25th antlerless moose 32 season in Unit 17A. 33 34 This request follows the Board of 35 Game's action which implemented these same changes in 36 State regulation in 2018. Earlier in the meeting we 37 heard Andy Aderman say that the moose population in 38 Unit 17 has been growing quite a bit and it's been 39 growing like this since the 1990s. At the last count 40 it was estimated to be 2,370 moose and that's well 41 above the established population objective that was 42 established by the Unit 17A moose management group. 43 And their population target is 800 to 1,200 moose. 44 45 In this population estimates of 46 productivity are high and the bull/cow ratios are good 47 too. In 2017 they counted 77 bulls to 100 cows. That 48 was the last time they did a composition estimate on 49 this population. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 261

1 Both the State and Federal moose 2 seasons are administered by a State registration permit 3 in Unit 17A, and in addition to the fall season, 4 there's also a may be announced winter season in both 5 State and Federal regulation and there are separate 6 quotas for the antlered and antlerless hunts. Overall 7 harvest has increased as the moose population has 8 increased and it peaked in 2017 when 85 moose were 9 reported harvested. Since 2001 36 percent of that

10 harvest has occurred in winter and most of it is taken 11 by Federally-qualified subsistence users. So since 12 2013, which is when the State's non-resident season was 13 established, 83 percent of harvest can be attributed to 14 local users, so those are Federally-qualified 15 subsistence users. 16 17 If the proposal is adopted it will 18 lengthen the existing bull season by five days to 19 August 25th to September 25th and it will establish an 20 antlerless moose season for those same dates. These 21 changes may result in additional harvest which would be 22 useful in terms of slowing the population growth of 23 that herd and I'll just, again, note that it's double 24 the population objectives set by the Unit 17A working 25 group. 26 27 And there's really little risk of 28 overharvest since both the bull hunt and the cow hunt 29 will continue to be managed by quota. 30 31 This action will also result in reduced 32 regulatory complexity between the State and Federal 33 regulations and it will allow subsistence users to hunt 34 across jurisdictions, so on both State and Federal land 35 with just one permit. 36 37 So the OSM preliminary conclusion is to 38 support WP28/29. 39 40 Thank you, Madame Chair. 41 42 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Any 43 questions at this time. 44 45 (No comments) 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Eva, did we have 48 any tribe or ANCSA Corporation consultations on this. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 262

1 MS. PATTON: Thank you, Madame Chair. 2 There were indeed consultations held for this proposal 3 but the Board did not receive any comments from tribes 4 or ANCSA consultations at that time. 5 6 Thank you. 7 8 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do we have anyone 9 from ADF&G.

10 11 (No comments) 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: None. 14 15 Togiak National Wildlife Refuge. 16 17 MR. ADERMAN: Yeah, hi, Madame Chair. 18 Andy Aderman again. This was our proposal and we do 19 continue to support it for many of the reasons that 20 Suzanne went over. 21 22 Madame Chair. 23 24 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Do we 25 have any tribal agencies. 26 27 Eva. 28 29 MS. PATTON: Do we have anyone on 30 teleconference joining us, a tribal representative 31 who'd wish to speak to this proposal. 32 33 (No comments) 34 35 MS. PATTON: Hearing none. We do have 36 the Bristol Bay Regional Advisory Council who just took 37 this up last week. And the Bristol Bay Federal 38 Subsistence Regional Advisory Council supports WP20- 39 29/29 and their justification -- preliminary 40 justification provided by the coordinator was the 41 proposal will provide for subsistence opportunity for 42 rural residents of the region. Extending the season 43 will provide for increased subsistence opportunity for 44 Federally-qualified subsistence users and the changes 45 will also align with current changes in State 46 regulations to reduce regulatory complexity aligning 47 seasons and harvest limits in both State and Federal 48 regulations. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 263

1 Thank you, Madame Chair. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Any 4 ACs, Subsistence Resource Commissions. 5 6 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 7 No comments submitted at this time from ACs. 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Any

10 written public comments. 11 12 MS. PATTON: And no written public 13 comments on this proposal. 14 15 Thank you. 16 17 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: That brings us to 18 our public testimony. Is there any public testimony 19 for this proposal. 20 21 (No comments) 22 23 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Anyone on line. 24 25 (No comments) 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay, 28 hearing..... 29 30 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. 31 32 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Peter and 33 then Mr. Oney. 34 35 MR. PETER: Look at number 47, about 36 proposed regulation up to two moose, one antlered bull 37 moose by State registration permit and one antlerless 38 moose by State registration permit and up to 31 day 39 season may be announced between December, first day of 40 February, what they're talking about? 41 42 MS. WORKER: So the way this hunt is 43 structured is you can hunt up to two moose. I believe 44 one can be a bull and one can be an antlerless. And, 45 Andy, you might need to help me clarify this. 46 47 So in the fall you can have one bull by 48 State registration permit, or you can have one 49 antlerless moose by State registration permit. And 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 264

1 then in the winter, if there's anything left in the 2 quota, they'll open the hunt up again so that they can 3 meet those antler and antlerless quotas. 4 5 MR. PETER: How many moose will be 6 taken in that area? How many moose? 7 8 MS. WORKER: Andy, can you help us with 9 that question.

10 11 MR. ADERMAN: Yes, Andy Aderman, Togiak 12 Refuge. The most recent data I have is for the fall 13 2019 hunt, this was current as of last week, there were 14 a total of 60 moose harvested during the fall hunt, 51 15 -- actually 53 of those were bulls and the other were 16 females, so that's actually 55 males and five females. 17 18 MR. PETER: For this year's hunt, 19 right? 20 21 MR. ADERMAN: For the hunt in late 22 August to late September this year. 23 24 MR. PETER: That is a 31 day hunt, one 25 month? 26 27 MR. ADERMAN: The winter season is a 31 28 day hunt, and I guess the fall season is real close to 29 that if it's not 31 days. We have had trouble getting 30 harvest during our winter because of poor travel 31 conditions and that winter hunt has been extended most 32 years because of that, people just not able to get 33 around by traditional methods so it has been extended 34 to try and allow more moose to be harvested. 35 36 MR. PETER: And it opens to Federally- 37 qualified users and State permits, not -- not 38 sporthunters -- are hunting in that area too? 39 40 MR. ADERMAN: So in the fall hunt there 41 is an opportunity for non-residents. There's up to 20 42 permits that are issued. And so for this last year 43 there were four bull moose taken by non-residents and 44 that's about the average that it's been over the last 45 five years since that hunt started. The rest of the 46 hunt, antlerless and antlered hunts are done through 47 the State registration permit, and while they're open 48 to all State residents, it's really the local 49 subsistence users that are getting the bulk of the 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 265

1 harvest. 2 3 MR. PETER: Okay, thank you. 4 5 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 8 Oney. 9

10 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. 11 For the record Ray Oney. Yeah, I think this proposal 12 is asking for two, one for bull and one for antlerless 13 moose for the same moose hunt period, and we've heard 14 already that the moose population in the area is quite 15 high and by adopting this proposal,or supporting the 16 proposal submitted by Togiak National Wildlife Refuge, 17 that would align both the State and Federal regulations 18 so I would be in support of this proposal. 19 20 Thank you, Madame Chair. 21 22 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 23 Oney. 24 25 Any further comments, questions from 26 our Council members. 27 28 (No comments) 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. We can now 31 entertain a motion to adopt this proposal. 32 33 MR. PETER: Madame Chair. I so move. 34 35 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 36 Phillip. 37 38 MR. CHARLES: Second the motion. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 41 Charles. 42 43 Any further discussion or comments. 44 45 (No comments) 46 47 MR. ONEY: Question. 48 49 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I wanted to 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 266

1 quickly say that I will be in support of this proposal 2 because I believe that given the graphs and information 3 within the technical analysis, and it's mainly a -- 4 dominated by local user, defined as Federally-qualified 5 subsistence users, and then the overall harvest has 6 increased since 2001 and the population has increased, 7 that's my justification. 8 9 Thank you.

10 11 And question has been called, or did 12 you want to talk too, Mr. Phillip Peter. 13 14 MR. PETER: (Shakes head negatively) 15 16 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Your mic. 17 18 MR. PETER: Oh. 19 20 (Laughter) 21 22 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right. All 23 those in favor say aye. 24 25 IN UNISON: Aye. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All those 28 opposed, same sign. 29 30 (No opposing votes) 31 32 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Motion has 33 passed. Next one, WP20-26. 34 35 Thank you, Ms. Robbin. 36 37 MS. LAVINE: Good afternoon, Madame 38 Chair. Members of the Council. Again, this is Robbin 39 LaVine with OSM. And I am presenting Wildlife Proposal 40 20-26 found on Page 158 of your Council books. 41 42 This proposal was submitted by the 43 Bristol Bay Regional Advisory Council and it requests 44 that Federally-qualified subsistence users be allowed 45 to use a snowmachine to position wolves and wolverines 46 for harvest on Bureau of Land Management lands in Units 47 9B, 9C, 17B and 17C provided the animals are not shot 48 from a moving snowmachine. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 267

1 The proponent states that the use of 2 snowmachines to position wolves and wolverines is a 3 traditional practice in rural areas and the proposed 4 regulation will mirror Federal regulations in Unit 23. 5 6 And just a little background, you've 7 heard some of the background of snowmachine proposals 8 in this region but the one you didn't hear was the one 9 that came up with the aligned -- or the regulation in

10 Unit 23. 11 12 So in 2015 Wildlife Proposal 16-48 was 13 submitted by the Native Village of Kotzebue and that 14 proposal requested that Federally-qualified subsistence 15 users be allowed to use snowmachines to position a 16 caribou, wolf or wolverine for harvest in Unit 23. The 17 Board adopted the proposal with modification to allow 18 this method of harvest only on those lands managed by 19 the Bureau of Land Management. The Bureau of Land 20 Management regulatory language does not specifically 21 prohibit the use of snowmachines to position animals 22 for hunting and this harvest method is allowed on some 23 State managed lands. 24 25 If adopted, Wildlife Proposal 20-26 26 would allow hunters to use a snowmachine to position 27 wolves and wolverines for selection and harvest as long 28 as they are not shot from a moving snowmachine. 29 30 Currently in the Bristol Bay region, 31 the majority of the wolves harvested in the most recent 32 five year reporting period were taken by firearm while 33 the majority of wolverine harvest over the same years 34 was by trapping. The proposed regulation may not 35 result in an increase in harvest of wolves and 36 wolverines by trap by snare, however, such regulatory 37 changes could likely increase the take of wolves and 38 wolverines by firearm and may result in more 39 opportunistic harvest. 40 41 Currently the wolf population is 42 believed to be stable. Less is known about the 43 resident wolverine population and this change in 44 regulation could result in increased biological 45 vulnerability. 46 47 Regulations for the use of snowmachines 48 when harvesting wolves or wolverines would be different 49 on State managed lands, however, this is already the 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 268

1 case and should the proposal be adopted it does not add 2 regulatory complexity that does not already exist. 3 4 Specifically, in State regulations, a 5 snowmachine may be used to position a hunter to select 6 an individual wolf for harvest and wolves may be shot 7 from a stationary snowmachine. In Federal regulations, 8 a snowmachine could be used to position a wolf or 9 wolverine and either could be shot from a stationary

10 snowmachine. 11 12 The OSM preliminary conclusion is to 13 support Proposal 20-26. 14 15 Thank you. 16 17 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, 18 Robbin. Do we have any tribes, ANCSA Corporation 19 consultations. 20 21 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 22 The Board did hold consultations on this proposal but 23 did not receive any formal comments at that time. 24 25 Thank you. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: ADF&G, do you 28 guys have anything on this. 29 30 MR. JONES: (Shakes head negatively) 31 32 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: No. Togiak 33 National Wildlife Refuge. 34 35 MR. ADERMAN: Togiak National Wildlife 36 Refuge is neutral. 37 38 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: U.S. Fish and 39 Wildlife Service. 40 41 (No comments) 42 43 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any tribal 44 agencies or governments that want to speak on behalf of 45 this, on teleconference or in the room. 46 47 (No comments) 48 49 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do we have any 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 269

1 Advisory group comments. 2 3 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 4 Yes, the Bristol Bay Federal Subsistence Regional 5 Advisory Council met last week and voted unanimously to 6 support this proposal. And the Council stated that 7 this is an existing practice that mirrors what the 8 State already has in their regulations and there does 9 not appear to be a conservation concern for this

10 species at this time. They also stated that there is a 11 strong support for this by local users and it would 12 help to clarify what hunters are allowed to do under 13 Federal regulations. The Council has supported this 14 type of regulation for the last several years. And, 15 again, the Council voted unanimously to support WP20- 16 26. 17 18 Thank you. 19 20 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Do we 21 have any written public comments. 22 23 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 24 There was one written public comment in opposition and 25 you will find that letter on Page 171 of your meeting 26 books. 27 28 And this letter was submitted by 29 Alaskans for Wildlife and any cooperating entities. 30 And they ask that please consider the comments on these 31 proposals, that the lands in question are publicly 32 owned lands belonging to all U.S. citizens who in 33 theory and in law all have interest in how wildlife on 34 these lands are managed and they state Article 8 of our 35 Alaska Constitution clearly sets forth all, emphasis, 36 Alaskans are stakeholders, all essentially owners with 37 respect to its natural resources and how they are 38 managed. And so for 26 they opposed permitting the use 39 of snowmachines for the harvest of wildlife. And in 40 summary they're saying that expanded use of snowmachine 41 would be positioning of animals and would be an 42 enforcement challenge. 43 44 And that was the only public comment 45 submitted on this proposal. 46 47 Thank you, Madame Chair. 48 49 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 270

1 Reading this comment makes me think about what was 2 recently passed -- I don't know if it was -- correct me 3 if I'm wrong, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service folks, but 4 there was an allowance in regulation for wolf by air 5 and wolverine by air, same day, same hunt -- got to 6 Google it -- someone Google it. 7 8 (Pause) 9

10 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do you guys have 11 any comments, yes, no, yeah -- did you want to speak. 12 13 MR. ANDREW: On this one. 14 15 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yeah. 16 17 MR. ANDREW: Madame Chair. On your 18 last question, some years ago prior to -- somewhere 19 around 1980 or a little bit earlier than that I used to 20 have friends over in Togiak that fly and hunt same day 21 for wolf and wolverine. Sometime later, after 1980 I 22 think they were outlawed, can't fly the same day and 23 hunt them no more from the air. 24 25 But then on this proposal I have mixed 26 feelings for it. 27 28 I know on wolves, use of snowmachines 29 back in the early years, it was the same story. They 30 used to hunt them, trap them, snare them and chase them 31 with snowmachines, and then sometime in the past they 32 outlawed those again, can't hunt, chase them -- chase 33 them with snowmachines or to -- I never heard of 34 anybody positioning, but I used this method for 35 wolverine only, but not on wolf because my dad's 36 brother used to caution me about chasing wolf, he said 37 you can catch them with snares and traps but don't 38 chase them or abuse them or -- he said it's not fair 39 for them. And for some families -- some families don't 40 hunt them, only take them as incidental catch on 41 wolves. And then on wolves, they have a pretty big 42 litter in the springtime. But the wolverine produces 43 only one or two young in the springtime, they're very 44 -- wolverine are never in high abundance or in high 45 numbers. That's one of the reasons why I don't like 46 the idea of using a snowmachine on wolverine. 47 48 But I hear people hunting them with 49 snowmachines on Yukon side back in the early years when 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 271

1 there used to be a lot of snow. I don't know if they 2 keep that practice or not. But for this area I never 3 heard of anybody -- back some years, around 1980, I 4 seen hunters from here, from this town go out behind 5 our village and look for wolves, chasing them with 6 snowmachines, but when I guided them in one day when 7 there was a lot of caribou back in our backyard we saw 8 18 wolf kill, only two were eaten, all the rest were -- 9 something taken off in their testicle area and their

10 tongue pulled out, gone, that's just about it, all of 11 them were like that, they were not eaten, just killed. 12 Only two of them were eaten. That's one of the reasons 13 why I have no -- no opposition on the use of 14 snowmachine on wolves, but on wolverine I don't like 15 the idea of using it on wolverine because they're slow 16 movers compared to wolf. 17 18 Madame Chair. 19 20 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 21 Andrew. I just got the latest update on my comment 22 earlier, so I retract whatever I said about the 23 airborne stuff. 24 25 (Laughter) 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any other 28 comments you guys want to discuss about this proposal, 29 if not, can I get a motion and then we can move on to 30 something else if we're done talking about this. 31 32 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 35 Oney. 36 37 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. 38 For the record Ray Oney. Yeah, I'll be in support of 39 this proposal. We just heard about the decline of the 40 caribou in that area, the Mulchatna Caribou Herd. I 41 think this would be one avenue of targeting the wolves 42 and wolverines that do hunt and prey on that caribou 43 herd. I think you have to give the hunter an 44 opportunity to try and control the predators in this 45 way and I think that would be a way of giving them an 46 opportunity to harvest the wolverine, wolf -- wolf land 47 wolverine because they do -- you know, because one of 48 the reasons why there's a decline of the Mulchatna Herd 49 is happening, because of predators, that are -- the 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 272

1 population of wolves and wolverines. So I'd be in 2 support of this to try and build up that Mulchatna 3 Caribou Herd. 4 5 Thank you, Madame Chair. 6 7 That's my comment. 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr.

10 Oney. 11 12 I just want to make sure I didn't skip 13 public comments. Do we have any public comments. 14 15 (No comments) 16 17 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Public testimony 18 over the teleconference or in person. 19 20 (No comments) 21 22 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Can we get 23 a motion on the floor to support WP20-26. 24 25 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. I move to 26 support WP20-26. 27 28 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 29 Oney. Can I get a second. 30 31 MR. PETER: Second. 32 33 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 34 Peter. Any further discussion. 35 36 (No comments) 37 38 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 39 40 MR. CHARLES: Question. 41 42 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Question's been 43 called by Mr. Charles. All those in favor say aye. 44 45 IN UNISON: Aye. 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All those 48 opposed, say aye. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 273

1 MR. ANDREW: Aye. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Andrew, would 4 you like to give your justification. 5 6 MR. ANDREW: Madame Chair. Like I said 7 earlier I don't like the idea of using with the 8 wolverine because they're slow breeders, they only 9 produce one or two cubs in early spring. But the wolf,

10 they always have a pretty big litter if they're 11 healthy. Just like our regular canine pets, they 12 produce a lot of pups. And I know when they're growing 13 up, not all of them -- never get to be full grown, it's 14 the same story with wolverine, only wolverine produces 15 one or two. I've seen that up in the mountains when we 16 used to go spring camping. 17 18 Thank you, Madame Chair. 19 20 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 21 Andrew. 22 23 Eva, is that all you need or did you 24 want more. 25 26 MS. PATTON: Maybe just a little 27 further justification from the Council's vote in 28 support of the proposal. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I'll start on 31 that end. Justification for saying yes. 32 33 MR. PETER: Yes. 34 35 (Laughter) 36 37 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: No, how come did 38 you say yes. 39 40 (Laughter) 41 42 MR. PETER: I say yes because -- the 43 reason why I say yes is that wolves and wolverine, 44 those two are predators, those are two predators. And 45 wolverine can kill a caribou if it has a chance, and a 46 grizzly bear, and wolves they kill moose. There are 47 two types of wolves, and what my friend told me, those 48 big ones, those are for moose, those wolves, and 49 smaller ones for killing caribou. And he's a hunter in 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 274

1 our community and those two types of -- wolverine and 2 wolves by snare. And sometimes when he's really lucky 3 -- he has a homestead Faulk River area (ph), and he's 4 spent from November until January, that he usually 5 returns and sells his furs. And he told me those 6 wolves are killing machines, he told me, and they're 7 really aggressive when they attack caribou. 8 9 Quyana.

10 11 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Brown. 12 13 MR. BROWN: (In Yup'ik) 14 15 INTERPRETER: Just like Mr. Peter said, 16 one time when we were hunting caribou in this area 17 there was quite a few wolf kills and their testicles 18 and their tongues were the only ones taken out and none 19 of the rest of the body was touched, and these were 20 wolf kills and so -- and I've continually heard that 21 this the case with the wolf kills. 22 23 Thank you. 24 25 MR. BROWN: Quyana. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Charles. 28 29 MR. CHARLES: Thank you, Madame Chair. 30 You got to have gunner in the plane to..... 31 32 (Laughter) 33 34 MR. CHARLES: .....to fly in and out of 35 there. I would be busy flying but the gunner would be 36 the -- to kill the wolves from the air. 37 38 (Laughter) 39 40 MR. CHARLES: Anyway, wish -- reason I 41 started flying was because same day airborne that time 42 when I was young was legal. But not too long after I 43 started flying they closed the -- they shut down the 44 airplane shooting. 45 46 Anyway, wolves are bad for our caribou. 47 Like one time at night there were a lot of caribou when 48 I was camping. I flew into the lake and there was -- I 49 wait until next day to shoot the caribou, but nothing 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 275

1 left, nothing left on that lake. So there was wolves 2 already chasing the caribou away. And I got nothing 3 but wolves that time. So that's the way they are. And 4 why I voted yes was because of that, because I know, it 5 happened. 6 7 Thank you. 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr.

10 Charles. 11 12 Mr. Slats. 13 14 MR. SLATS: Thank you, Madame Chair. 15 My justification is because snowmachines are a means of 16 transportation for subsistence hunters and fishers. 17 And this day and age our snowmachines are not -- 18 there's no -- we only get to use our snowmachines three 19 or four months out of a year. And the other point is 20 that because wolves are predators against our 21 subsistence resources. 22 23 Thank you. 24 25 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 26 Slats. 27 28 Mr. Landlord. 29 30 MR. LANDLORD: Yes, I know too that 31 wolves are predators. Right around Mountain we never 32 used to have wolves but they're getting more abundant 33 and there are not too many young guys running after 34 moose [soc] -- you got to have a real fast snowmachine 35 to catch up with them. 36 37 This summer when I went to get wood 38 right, one mile below Mountain I saw real big tracks 39 right along the beach where we never see one before, so 40 in that area, I think wolves are getting more abundant. 41 42 One time one of the guys caught, I 43 guess, an alpha moose [sic], it was about eight feet 44 long when they laid it down, it was a huge, huge wolf, 45 and they are predators and like William stated, we 46 don't eat them, they just go after -- try to catch and 47 eat. 48 49 Quyana. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 276

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 2 Landlord. 3 4 Mr. Maxie. 5 6 MR. MAXIE: Madame Chair. I agree with 7 all the Council members here. Wolves are bad for moose 8 and caribou. They could wipe out, easily, and we would 9 have nothing to have our diet, to make meat, you know,

10 caribou or moose. I agree with all these Council 11 members. 12 13 Thank you. 14 15 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 16 Maxie. 17 18 I'm in agreement with this proposal 19 because in 2012 the Yukon Delta National Wildlife 20 Refuge had put in a request in a unit specific 21 regulation for prohibiting a hunter in Unit 18 from 22 pursuing with a motorized vehicle an ungulate that is 23 fleeing and the Board had adopted the proposal with 24 modification and prohibited the pursuit of motorized 25 vehicle of an ungulate that was at or near a full 26 gallop in Unit 18 providing greater clarity of 27 allowable methods of harvest, which is Fish and 28 Wildlife Service 2012. 29 30 Thank you. 31 32 Are we on WP20-08 -- okay, thank you. 33 34 MS. WORKER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 35 It's Suzanne Worker again. And I think our last 36 wildlife proposal is WP20-08. 37 38 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Before you begin, 39 let me check in with Eva, was there someone that has to 40 leave at 5:00 o'clock. 41 42 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 43 They're on the flight tonight, so I think we have 44 plenty of time to get through this proposal and..... 45 46 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 47 48 MS. PATTON: .....then we'll get to the 49 FRMP after that. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 277

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 2 3 MS. PATTON: Thank you. 4 5 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Good job, okay. 6 7 MS. WORKER: WP20-08 begins on Page 175 8 and this is a statewide proposal, and it's for 9 trapping.

10 11 This proposal was submitted by the East 12 Prince of Wales Advisory Committee and they request 13 implementing a statewide requirement that traps and 14 snares be marked with either the trapper's names or 15 their State identification number. The proponent 16 believes that the current regulations do not provide 17 accountability if a trapper leaves their trap set after 18 the season closes or if they use illegal bait. And 19 they believe that requiring trap identification would 20 make enforcement easy and help reduce illegal trapping 21 practices. 22 23 So I want to start by giving you a 24 little bit of recent history related to trap marking in 25 Alaska. 26 27 The Alaska Board of Game adopted a trap 28 marking requirement for Units 1 through 5 in 2006. And 29 then the Federal Subsistence Board followed suit in 30 2012. So those regulations only apply to Southeast 31 Alaska. At that time there was agreement among 32 Wildlife Troopers, the Alaska Department of Fish and 33 Game and the public that there were some benefits to 34 requiring traps to be marked. In 2016 the Board of 35 Game removed those requirements for Southeast Alaska 36 because the requirement was not actually preventing 37 illegal trapping or incidental take, which are the 38 things that it was meant to do. And then in 2018 the 39 same change was made in Federal regulation. 40 41 Back in 2014 the Federal Subsistence 42 Board considered a proposal to require trap 43 identification statewide and that proposal was opposed 44 by all 10 Regional Advisory Councils and it was 45 ultimately rejected by the Board. 46 47 So currently there is no statewide trap 48 marking requirement in either State or Federal 49 regulation. There are a few unit specific or agency 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 278

1 specific requirements, but nothing statewide. 2 3 The proposal isn't expected to have any 4 effects on wildlife populations and it's also not 5 expected to prevent illegal trapping activity, or the 6 incidental take of non-targeted wildlife or pets. 7 8 It could benefit law enforcement, 9 although users in most cases could simply trap under

10 State regulation on Federal public land to avoid this 11 requirement. It's likely to be burdensome to 12 Federally-qualified subsistence users in terms of the 13 time and the cost that it will take to mark their traps 14 and it's also likely to be confusing since the 15 requirements under Federal and State regulations would 16 be different. 17 18 And so the OSM preliminary conclusion 19 is to oppose WP20-08. 20 21 Madame Chair. 22 23 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Do we 24 have any tribes or ANCSA Corporation consultations. 25 26 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 27 The Board did hold consultation on this, however, we 28 did not get any formal comments from tribes or ANCSA 29 consultations. 30 31 Thank you. 32 33 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: ADF&G, do you 34 guys want to comment. 35 36 MR. JONES: (Shakes head negatively) 37 38 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Togiak National 39 Wildlife Refuge. 40 41 (No comments) 42 43 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: U.S. Fish and 44 Wildlife Service. 45 46 (No comments) 47 48 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Tribal agencies. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 279

1 (No comments) 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Did we have any 4 written turned in tribal government comments, Eva. 5 6 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair. Unless we 7 have tribal representatives here or on teleconference 8 who would like to comment on this proposal. 9

10 (No comments) 11 12 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 13 14 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 15 So so far all of the other Regional Advisory Councils 16 have met and taken up this proposal, and we just got an 17 update from Eastern Interior -- or Southeast Regional 18 Advisory Council that was also meeting this week, and 19 all Councils have opposed WP20-08 at this time. 20 21 Thank you. 22 23 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do we have any 24 public comments or public testimony today. 25 26 (No comments) 27 28 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Anybody on 29 teleconference. 30 31 (No comments) 32 33 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Hearing none..... 34 35 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 36 We do have two written comments, public written 37 comments for this proposal. One in opposition and one 38 in support of the proposal. 39 40 On Page 181 and 182 you'll find the 41 Ketchikan State Advisory Committee had met earlier this 42 summer and voted on WP20-08 and they are opposed. And 43 -- and citing that some type of compromise should be 44 reached in regards to labeling of traps and snares, a 45 one size fits all regulation would be overly burdensome 46 in some areas. 47 48 And then you'll find on Page 187 a 49 letter in support of Proposal WP20-08 submitted by the 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 280

1 Chair of the Alaskans for Wildlife. And they are in 2 support of this proposal especially in urban 3 municipalities within Alaska where there's overlap 4 between hikers and pets and other public land use. 5 Other concern that injuries resulting from hidden or 6 unidentified traps may be an issue affecting other 7 users. 8 9 And that concludes the public comments.

10 11 Thank you. 12 13 Public written comments. Thank you. 14 15 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 16 In all things we always go for the motion to adopt the 17 proposal and then when we go to our voting, then we can 18 decide on which way we're going to go, if you support 19 the proposal or not to support the proposal. But we 20 always move in the positive. 21 22 So I'd like to entertain that we go to 23 a motion to adopt so we can get our discussion and 24 justification on record. 25 26 MR. CHARLES: Madame Chair. I 27 move..... 28 29 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. I move to 30 adopt Proposal WP20-08. 31 32 MR. CHARLES: Second the motion. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Ray. 35 Second by Mr. Charles. 36 37 Okay, now, it's open for discussion and 38 justification. 39 40 MR. PETER: Madame Chair. 41 42 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: We have Mr. 43 Andrew, Mr. Phillip, and Mr. Oney. 44 45 MR. ANDREW: Thank you, Madame Chair. 46 This is John Andrew from Kwethluk, for the record. 47 Being an old trapper, I don't like the idea of marking 48 and putting my name and address to all my snares. Over 49 the years I've probably bought well over a thousand of 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 281

1 them before I gave them away to most of my nephews and 2 guys that have gone trapping with me and I -- like 3 earlier I told that reporter that -- when she started 4 asking questions -- I don't like people coming over and 5 asking me questions over and over, the same thing over 6 and over because we're the most over-studied people in 7 the whole world, and in the whole region. 8 9 Fish and Game asks how many we harvest

10 for the summer. ONC comes over and asks me the same 11 question over and over. Another group from Anchorage 12 or Fairbanks and comes over and do that. One from UAA 13 too. And I always say, no, I already told somebody all 14 that information, I don't have to give it to you. 15 16 This is one -- it's statewide, anybody 17 can oppose it. 18 19 And for a lot of us that used to go 20 trapping, this is burdensome to us because back where I 21 come from, my father and my uncles and grandfather's 22 never used to do this, and I don't like the idea of 23 giving out extra information I don't need to give away 24 to. 25 26 Madame Chair. 27 28 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 29 Andrew. 30 31 Mr. Phillip. 32 33 MR. PETER: Thank you, Madame Chair. I 34 will not support this proposal. Like John said, if we 35 -- it will be too complicated for some, you know, 36 because it's going to be a lot of hard work for the 37 enforcement, you know, to check out each one, each trap 38 -- trap line, you know. This is the first time in my 39 life I see this kind of proposal. But my elders, my 40 elders used to tell me -- our elders, you know, they 41 got their own boundaries and jurisdiction and their 42 hunting area and they respect each other and they know 43 each other. And someone wants to trap inside their 44 trapping place they just go over and ask that person he 45 wants to trap -- set the trap with him, in his area and 46 when the elder accepted it, they let them trap inside 47 that land, you know, they know each other. And when -- 48 from their -- outside from their trapping line, when 49 they see an animal trapped outside their jurisdiction, 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 282

1 they just kill it and hang it. That's how we do it. 2 We just go over there and kill it and take it home. We 3 kill it and hang it so that that guy will be very proud 4 of us and then -- he trusts us, you know. 5 6 So I don't like trap marking. 7 8 I oppose this one. 9

10 Thank you. 11 12 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 13 Phillip. 14 15 Mr. Oney. 16 17 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. 18 Ray Oney for the record. I would also be in opposition 19 of this proposal. I think it is an unnecessary burden 20 for the trappers and also, you know, additional cost to 21 trappers that may -- if it's adopted -- and, you know, 22 trappers know what they're doing when they're out 23 trapping and they usually mark their trap line either 24 with a hatchet mark on the tree or put some kind of a 25 bite mark to notify a trapper that they do have 26 traplines in that area. So it's being done but in 27 their own way. But I think to put their names on there 28 would be an unnecessary cost to the trapper and also a 29 burden. 30 31 Thank you. 32 33 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 34 Oney. 35 36 Anyone else. 37 38 Go ahead, Mr. Charles. 39 40 MR. CHARLES: Thank you, Madame Chair. 41 I really don't like this one, too, because I wouldn't 42 know how to put my name on there, or tape it on -- tape 43 it up on the trap or..... 44 45 (Laughter) 46 47 MR. CHARLES: .....mark it or tape it, 48 it doesn't say how to identify -- how to mark it. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 283

1 Anyway, this would be a hard thing 2 because you scribble it on the trap or something, I 3 don't know. I don't want to do this. 4 5 Thank you. 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 8 Charles. 9

10 Mr. Slats. 11 12 MR. SLATS: Thank you, Madame Chair. I 13 oppose this because it's an undue burden for the 14 trappers and it does not prevent illegal activity. 15 16 I think that Federally-qualified 17 subsistence users could just leave their mark the same 18 way that the wolves would do. 19 20 (Laughter) 21 22 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Landlord, did 23 you want to reply. 24 25 MR. LANDLORD: No. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: No. Mr. Maxie. 28 29 MR. ANDREW: I think he echoed him. 30 31 (Laughter) 32 33 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Maxie. 34 35 MR. MAXIE: Chair Madame. I oppose 36 that too. I like to keep my privacy too. 37 38 Thank you. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Hearing pretty 41 much from all you guys, are we ready to vote. 42 43 (Council nods affirmatively) 44 45 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Someone want to 46 call the question for us. 47 48 MR. PETER: I call for question. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 284

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Question's been 2 called by Mr. Phillip. All those in favor say aye. 3 4 IN UNISON: Aye. 5 6 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Wait, wait, wait, 7 so..... 8 9 MR. PETER: Uh-oh, wait.

10 11 (Laughter) 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: So when you say 14 -- yeah -- when I say -- maybe I'll say it this way, 15 all those in favor of putting your name and State ID 16 number on your traps say aye. 17 18 (No aye votes) 19 20 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All those opposed 21 to putting your identification on traps say aye. 22 23 IN UNISON: Aye. 24 25 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Got it. 26 27 MR. ONEY: Aye. 28 29 (Laughter) 30 31 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right. 32 33 MR. ANDREW: Can we go for a break? 34 35 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, good call. 36 A break has been called, five, 10 minutes. 37 38 MR. ANDREW: Permanent. 39 40 (Laughter) 41 42 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair, what's next on 43 the agenda, I'm ready to leave for the day. 44 45 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Thank you 46 so much for being with us while you were here. I 47 greatly appreciate you calling in. 48 49 Quyana. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 285

1 Cakneq. 2 3 MR. ONEY: All right, thank..... 4 5 MS. PATTON: Thank you, Ray. 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 8 9 MR. ONEY: Yes, you bet, Eva.

10 11 MS. PATTON: Take good care, thank you. 12 13 MR. ONEY: Have a good, safe return 14 back to your villages and hope to see you in the 15 winter, signing off. 16 17 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right. Go 18 back 68. 19 20 MR. ONEY: 68. 21 22 (Off record) 23 24 (On record) 25 26 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay, we're going 27 to come back on record. Time now is 5:34 p.m., and 28 we're going to get started with 2020 Fisheries 29 Resources Monitoring Program, OSM Fisheries, 30 Anthropology. That's in your book on Page 188. And we 31 have Mr. -- what was your name? 32 33 MR. HARRIS: Frank Harris. 34 35 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Frank Harris, 36 thank you. 37 38 MR. HARRIS: Good afternoon, Madame 39 Chair. Members of the Council. For the record my 40 name's Frank Harris and I'm a fisheries biologist for 41 the Yukon region and kind of fill in for the Kuskokwim 42 region presently with the Office of Subsistence 43 Management. With me, I have Robbin LaVine, she will be 44 running the projector and helping me answer questions 45 at the end. 46 47 Go ahead. 48 49 My goal today is to present you with a 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 286

1 brief overview of the Fisheries Resource Monitoring 2 Program and its accomplishments to date. I will review 3 the funding process, your regional overviews, and 4 finish up by requesting Council comments on the 5 projects submitted for the Yukon and Kuskokwim Regions 6 during the 2020 call for proposal. 7 8 This is not an action item. There is 9 no motion necessary for this process.

10 11 The Fisheries Resource Monitoring 12 Program materials begin on page 188 of your Council 13 book for those who want to follow along. 14 15 The Fisheries Resource Monitoring 16 Program is a multi-disciplinary collaborate effort that 17 enhances subsistence fisheries research and provides 18 necessary information for the management of subsistence 19 fisheries on Federal public lands in Alaska. The 20 program encourages partnerships between Tribes, rural 21 organizations, universities, and Federal and State 22 agencies. In addition, it encourages inter- 23 disciplinary approaches to conducting research and 24 addressing issues. 25 26 The Office of Subsistence Management 27 administers the monitoring program. The program has 28 interests of advancing projects of strategic importance 29 to the Federal Subsistence Management Program and 30 coordinating information sharing of ongoing and new 31 subsistence researching efforts. 32 33 Okay. 34 35 Since its inception in 2000 the 36 Monitoring Program has funded more than 450 projects 37 Statewide with a total allocation exceeding $120 38 million. The figures on this slide demonstrate both 39 the allocation of funds and the number of projects 40 funded through the Monitoring Program by the 41 organization of a principal investigator. Although not 42 displayed here some of these funds have been used by 43 principal investigators, organizations to subcontract 44 with research partners, such as communities, Tribes, 45 and other research organizations. 46 47 This slide shows the guideline 48 allocations of funds by Region. While this provides an 49 initial target for planning, allocations are often 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 287

1 adjusted as needed to ensure that quality projects are 2 funded. As you can see both the Yukon and the 3 Kuskokwim have -- are on the larger side of the 4 allocations. 5 6 Next I will jump to how the funding 7 process actually works. 8 9 The Program divides the state into six

10 regions. These regions correspond to Federal 11 subsistence fisheries areas that generally hold stock, 12 harvest, and community issues in common. 13 14 Step 1. During the first step of the 15 process the Regional Advisory Councils with support 16 from OSM Staff and Federal and State fisheries and land 17 managers ensure the Monitoring Program focuses on the 18 highest priority subsistence fisheries information 19 needs for the region. Councils ensure issues of local 20 concern and knowledge gaps related to subsistence 21 fisheries are identified for priority information need 22 development. Ideally principal investigators will work 23 closely with Councils in order to develop strong 24 proposals that are responsive to those needs. The 25 Office of Subsistence Management provides technical 26 assistance as needed. 27 28 The second step is requesting new 29 project proposals which the program does every two 30 years. Submissions must be complete, on time, and 31 address the five criteria outlined in the notice of 32 funding opportunity in order to be competitive. The 33 criteria are strategic priority, technical and 34 scientific merit, investigator ability and resources, 35 partnership and capacity building, and cost benefit of 36 the project. A more detailed description of the five 37 criteria can be found on page 192 of your Council book. 38 39 Once submitted a Technical Review 40 Committee evaluates and rates each project proposal 41 package. The Technical Review Committee is a standing 42 InterAgency Committee of senior technical experts 43 brought together to evaluate project proposals and 44 ensure the program is maintaining consistency with its 45 mission. It is the responsibility of the Technical 46 Review Committee to develop the strongest possible 47 monitoring program for all regions across the State 48 based on evaluation criteria. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 288

1 During the proposal evaluation process 2 the Technical Review Committee adheres to its specific 3 guidelines in order to assess how well a project 4 addressed the five criteria. While some agencies may 5 have more than one senior expert on committee, such as 6 social scientist and a fisheries biologist, each agency 7 provides only one single consolidated review. Agencies 8 do not score their own proposals and the final score 9 for each proposal is based on an assessment of the five

10 criteria. 11 12 Once a draft Monitoring Program is 13 developed it is brought before the Regional Advisory 14 Councils for their input and comments. This is where 15 we are at in the current cycle and we will come back to 16 this in a moment. 17 18 Additional comments on the process and 19 draft 2020 Fisheries Monitoring Program for the 20 Kuskokwim and Yukon regions will be provided by the 21 InterAgency Staff Committee. These along with comments 22 developed by the Councils are provided to the Federal 23 Subsistence Board. The Board takes into consideration 24 comments and concerns generated by the process and 25 endorses the funding plan. Final approval of the 26 funding plan is made by the Assistant Regional Director 27 of OSM. 28 29 Now we'll shift into an overview of the 30 Kuskokwim and Yukon Regions. 31 32 We'll start with the Yukon region, and 33 we'll come back to these slides in a minute. 34 35 36 In Yukon Region, which starts on Page 37 220, 114 projects have been undertaken for 38 approximately $21 million in funding. You can see from 39 the chart that project leads have been predominantly 40 State of Alaska or Department of Interior agencies. 41 Most of these projects have also include other agencies 42 and Alaska rural organizations as research partners. 43 The other category includes universities, non-profit 44 organizations, independent contractors, and non- 45 government organizations. 46 47 You'll see on this slide here are the 48 proposals received for the Yukon region for the 2020 49 cycle. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 289

1 For 2020 there is an anticipated $1 2 million to $1.5 million available for new projects 3 Statewide and up to $1.8 million for ongoing already 4 funded projects. The available funding amount for the 5 new 2020 projects is budgeted for each project's first 6 year, not the total project requested amount. 7 8 For the Yukon Region there are eight 9 projects submitted for the cycle. The projects are

10 listed in numerical order by project number on Page 200 11 and also on the slide. Justifications for the 12 Technical Review Committee scores begin on Page 200 of 13 your Council books and project executive summaries are 14 on 207. 15 16 At these funding levels it is unlikely 17 that all projects in the Yukon region will be funded 18 during this cycle. 19 20 We'll come back to this slide in a 21 moment, next slide. 22 23 In the Kuskokwim Region there has been 24 99 projects that have been undertaken for approximately 25 $27 million in funding. You can see from the chart 26 that the project leads have been predominantly the 27 State of Alaska or Department of Interior agencies. 28 Most of these projects also have included other 29 agencies and Alaska rural organizations as research 30 partners. The other category includes universities, 31 non-profit organizations, independent contractors, and 32 other non-government organizations. 33 34 Again, for 2020 there's an anticipated 35 $1 million to $1.5 million available for new projects 36 statewide and up to 1.8 for ongoing already funded 37 projects. 38 39 For the Kuskokwim Region there were 40 eight projects submitted for the current cycle. The 41 projects are listed in numerical order by project 42 number on Page 223 and also on this slide here. 43 Justifications for the technical review committee 44 scores begin on Page 223 of your Council book and 45 project executive summaries are on Page 230. Again, at 46 these funding levels, it's not likely that all these 47 projects will be funded during this cycle. 48 49 So once again we are at step four of 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 290

1 the FRMP funding process. Today we are asking for your 2 comments on the draft Monitoring Program for your 3 Regions. There is no motion necessary. What our 4 program is seeking is any thoughts or ideas that the 5 Council has on each proposed project that would make 6 them successful in the event that they are selected for 7 funding. We want to ensure that selected projects have 8 the greatest chance at successfully answering the 9 Council's information needs as possible.

10 11 We also want to know if the Council has 12 any specific concerns about a project based on the 13 provided materials. 14 15 Lastly, after the Councils have 16 completed commenting specifically on the projects we 17 are always interested in hearing your thoughts on the 18 FRMP Program as a whole. We're always looking for ways 19 to improve. 20 21 Thank you, Chair. 22 23 And we are ready to take your comments. 24 If we could go back to the Yukon and begin there. So 25 these are the projects that have been proposed for the 26 Yukon region. 27 28 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Is that just for 29 the Yukon River -- this is specifically just for Yukon 30 River stuff. 31 32 MR. HARRIS: We will start just with 33 the Yukon. 34 35 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 36 37 MR. HARRIS: And then we'll work our 38 way to the Kuskokwim next. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any of these 41 Yukon River proposals or are they just -- can you tell 42 me which ones are new, or all these all recurring 43 projects? 44 45 MR. HARRIS: You'll have to give me a 46 second to read the list. 47 48 (Pause) 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 291

1 MR. HARRIS: 2201 is recurring -- or 2 this project has been run before. 3 4 And let's see, Henshaw Creek has been 5 in operation before. 6 7 2251 has also been -- and 2256 also 8 have been operated before. 9

10 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 11 Charles. 12 13 MR. CHARLES: Thank you, Madame Chair. 14 How much money you are -- the Federal government gets 15 for the fishery -- chum or king salmon and other 16 species of salmon. 17 18 MR. HARRIS: So for this funding cycle 19 we have approximate $1 to $1.5 million for new projects 20 and these are the new projects for the Yukon region. 21 In the Yukon region, the funding allocation is about 29 22 percent of that so an estimated -- let's say there was 23 a million dollars available total, the allocation for 24 the Yukon would be right around 290,000 which would be 25 29 percent. 26 27 MR. CHARLES: Thank you. 28 29 MR. HARRIS: And also the Kuskokwim 30 region has the same 29 percent, so it would be a 31 similar amount. 32 33 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Can you give me a 34 little more detail why there's a need for quantifying 35 and qualifying barter and cash exchange of salmon 36 within the social cultural and economic life of the 37 people of the middle and lower river drainages. Don't 38 we already have a regulation that states like how much 39 they can barter or cash from a subsistence harvest? 40 41 MR. HARRIS: One second please. 42 43 (Pause) 44 45 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Page 203 in our 46 book. 47 48 (Pause) 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 292

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: So I guess where 2 my question comes around to is that you could get that 3 information from a subsistence -- or a post-season 4 subsistence harvest of how much they trade between 5 families and how much they're -- one of those in-depth 6 fishery household surveys that we conducted a few years 7 back. 8 9 MS. LAVINE: Madame Chair, this is

10 Robbin. And I'm here to represent some of the harvest 11 monitoring and cultural and traditional knowledge type 12 of projects. And you'll have to forgive me because I'm 13 not as familiar with this region, the first thing that 14 I would draw your attention to is that this project is 15 responding directly to the priority information needs 16 that was developed by this region. So any of the 17 projects that you see are an attempt to address what 18 was put out for the notice of funding opportunity. 19 20 So if you look at Page 198, you will 21 see the priority information needs for the Yukon 22 region. There's so many but do remember that the Yukon 23 River is such a long river and it goes through many 24 different regions and so many of these priority 25 information needs have been identified by Councils from 26 different regions and so they've all been put together. 27 28 In regards to customary trade, I'm 29 going to -- I might respond to that in a moment if I 30 can look at the more in-depth review of that particular 31 proposal and you might find that on Page 217 of your 32 book. And what this project intends to do is to build 33 on earlier research by administering the same methods 34 used by Brown in 2017 in the lower and middle Yukon 35 regions in order to establish comparable data sets 36 across all regions of the Yukon River. And, this, I 37 believe, is a little bit more of an ethnographic 38 approach looking for context rich information that you 39 can't get from just a standard survey. And, again, 40 it's building upon research that has been conducted in 41 the past so it's just trying to expand knowledge on 42 this particular issue. 43 44 And, once, again, we are -- remember, 45 we are here to get your comments, your thoughts and 46 observations about the proposals that are before you. 47 And your comments will be forwarded to the Federal 48 Subsistence Board when the Board deliberates this 49 monitoring plan. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 293

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 2 Charles. 3 4 MR. CHARLES: So some of the money that 5 you get goes to ADF&G or where does it go? 6 7 MR. LAVINE: Through the Chair. Mr. 8 Charles. How this program works is we're looking for 9 people, principal investigators to come up with a

10 really good research plan to address these priority 11 information needs that you develop. And a lot of it -- 12 we'll talk about a principal investigator so someone 13 who will take the lead and that might be Alaska 14 Department of Fish and Game, but their proposals will 15 be made all the stronger if they're looking for 16 partners in this region and as you'll see, while we 17 don't have -- I think if we look -- what is that, on 18 Page -- there's a graphic that shows how many -- how 19 many principal investigators receive funding in this 20 area. So let's say if you look at Page 197, for the 21 Yukon region on -- on 197 -- you'll actually see that 22 49 of the -- oh, how many projects -- 114, so 49 of the 23 114 projects were led by the U.S. Department of the 24 Interior, 26 were led by the State of Alaska, and 19 25 were led by rural Alaskan entities, 20 other -- by 26 other entities, other agencies. 27 28 But it doesn't mean that the money went 29 only to those people. Often what it means is, is those 30 folks took the lead and they worked closely and had a 31 much stronger project by working with people in the 32 communities. That might be something you're very 33 interested in looking at when you're looking at these 34 proposals. 35 36 Thank you. 37 38 MR. CHARLES: Thank you. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Brown. 41 42 MR. BROWN: My name is Charlie Brown 43 from Eek. I'm going to speak in my own language. 44 45 (In Yup'ik) 46 47 INTERPRETER: Does the Bering Sea's 48 water and what is going on with the Bering Sea, is this 49 in any of the projects listed and how -- during this 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 294

1 past summer, the fish -- why were they exactly dying. 2 Is it truly the heat of the weather or is there 3 something in the water, is there pollution in the water 4 and causing the fish to get sick. 5 6 And across there on the other side of 7 the ocean and through the currents, is there -- are 8 there any other -- are there any projects related to 9 the Bering Sea and its currents, or the water.

10 11 Thank you. 12 13 MR. HARRIS: Thank you for the 14 question. So the FRMP process does not typically fund 15 projects in marine waters. This cycle we received zero 16 projects -- proposals for the Bering Sea. So none of 17 these will be looking at what's occurring in the Bering 18 Sea. They'll be looking at what's occurring in the 19 fresh water systems. 20 21 And to answer the other part of the 22 question, no one's 100 percent sure on what -- why the 23 fish were dying this summer but it was thought that the 24 heat stress was the main factor. Now, that could cause 25 -- allow other diseases that wouldn't normally surface 26 as much, you know, during normal conditions, or it 27 could have been the heat that was causing the issues. 28 But for the most part the warm water could be 29 attributed to a lot of the issues seen this summer. 30 31 MS. LAVINE: Madame Chair. Through the 32 Chair. Mr. Charles [sic], what happened this summer I 33 think is really significant and we've heard so many 34 people talk about it at this meeting and we've taken a 35 lot of notes and it's going to be recorded. 36 37 Starting next year we're going to be 38 developing new priority information needs. And like 39 anything that we do is really long and burdensome and 40 we're so sorry we can't be more responsive, but 41 everything that you have shared with us regarding your 42 concern for the salmon, the heat of the water, the fish 43 that are dying, not just salmon, in the water, these 44 are issues of great importance to you and we are 45 starting to track them now and so when we are here in a 46 year from now, in a year from now we're going to be 47 asking you for a new list of priority information needs 48 and that's the time when those concerns will be tracked 49 from this summer through next summer and then when the 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 295

1 fall comes that's when you can say these are the most 2 important issues to our region in regards to fisheries. 3 4 So I know you may not be here but you 5 can come and harass us, you can hang out in the 6 audience..... 7 8 (Laughter) 9

10 MS. LAVINE: .....and make sure that 11 these folks here remember your concerns. 12 13 Additionally, hmm, no, I guess -- I 14 guess that would be -- I guess that would be good 15 enough, but, yes, so additionally, though you -- when 16 you made these priority information needs a year in the 17 past, a year ago, when these needs came before you and 18 you approved them and we sent them out and we asked for 19 people to give us good projects in response to these 20 priority information needs, since that time things have 21 changed a little bit, right, so you might want to look 22 at these projects and see, would any of these projects 23 somewhat address your concerns as they are today. 24 Certainly they're responsive to the priority 25 information needs that you developed a year go, but 26 this might be another opportunity for you to look at 27 these lists and go, hey, this one might actually come 28 up with some of my answers. 29 30 Thank you. 31 32 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 33 Charles. 34 35 MR. CHARLES: Thank you, Madame Chair. 36 Anyway, what -- why I have in mind was fishery 37 calendars too. Years ago I worked for Fish and 38 Wildlife Service before they build the building up 39 there, anyway, we were at trailer court or someplace up 40 there, anyway, I -- that time we got calendars for 41 subsistence catch that time but I don't see the 42 calendars anymore. Calendars were for birds and stuff 43 like that. And fishery calendars are from Fish and 44 Game now -- the Department of Fish and Game, and we -- 45 us -- some people fill those calendars really full and 46 send them back and when the fishing is done like in 47 October or something like that we send our calendars 48 back to -- back into the Department of Fish and Game 49 because those calendars help a lot -- why I ask that 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 296

1 question, because we know how much -- we learn how much 2 to get -- but the numbers are going now down -- all the 3 time now -- because more people are on the Earth now, 4 nowadays, more people and less catch of salmon. But 5 people are more now because people fish a lot now but 6 they -- the catches are lower. That's the way my 7 family was -- is now. Because we eat the fish with the 8 dogs, too. Dogs have to have -- dogs have to have some 9 food and us too. We put away a lot of fish those years

10 but less people -- nowadays -- I mean that time, and 11 nowadays. 12 13 Thank you. 14 15 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 16 Charles. 17 18 So do you guys have any comments on how 19 to make these proposals better. 20 21 (No comments) 22 23 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: It doesn't look 24 like we have any comments. 25 26 MR. HARRIS: Okay, we'll go to the 27 Kuskokwim region now. 28 29 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I guess I do have 30 one really quick question. Customary trade in the 31 lower and middle Yukon River, that's just an inquiry of 32 what's actually being sent out is my belief and trying 33 to recollect exactly what we were talking about, but it 34 kind of strikes me because I'm kind of concerned that 35 we're kind of digging ourselves our own hole, kind of. 36 Because we already have a system in place for bartering 37 and finding out how much is down there, and I think it 38 might have been just like a -- just food for thought 39 kind of project, right, well, you can come help. I 40 just don't want this information to be used against us, 41 in other words. 42 43 MR. MASCHMANN: Gerald Maschmann with 44 U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Yeah, this is 45 primarily ADF&G, so I don't want to put any words into 46 there, but, particularly in the upper and middle Yukon, 47 customary trade, I don't know if I'd call it a hot 48 topic, but it's at least lukewarm. There's concern for 49 people selling strips when the food needs to stay in 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 297

1 the village. But there's also, you know, a 2 sociological -- people are talking about, you know, 3 their traditions are changing and they used to share -- 4 we heard it here, they used to share with family, they 5 used to send fish out to family in different villages 6 and they're saying they can't do that anymore, or 7 they're not doing that anymore, so there's an interest 8 in knowing how this barter and trade is changing 9 people's traditions.

10 11 So that's an aspect of it also. 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I think it -- 14 well, personally, from my personal opinion, I'm still 15 sharing my fish and sending out to families in need, it 16 hasn't stopped for our family, regardless of how much 17 fish we catch throughout the season, if someone's 18 hungry we're going to send them food, we're not going 19 to hoard it, we're not going to keep it, we're not 20 going to keep it to ourselves, we're going to share 21 what we have and that's our culture, that's our 22 tradition, we share our subsistence foods with people 23 who are hungry. And so I can understand some people do 24 but personally, on a personal note, and as far as I 25 know with my family and our traditions and the people 26 I've respectfully talked to, if someone's hungry we 27 give them food. 28 29 And I just feel like this is targeted 30 to the middle and lower Yukon villages and it feels 31 like it's a -- adding a -- poking a stick at a bear or 32 trying to just make an up river, down river, kind of 33 fight, I guess you could say. 34 35 Go ahead. 36 37 MR. PETER: Madame Chair. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 40 Phillip. 41 42 MR. PETER: On this report, I got a 43 concern because we're talking about a trade. And 44 Yukon, our people are really lucky because they 45 commercial fish and they got cannery and they got 46 buyers, they're really lucky. And sometimes I wonder, 47 us, it's going to be my fifth year not fishing in the 48 river for commercial fishing, we're idle for five 49 years, it's going to be my fifth year next year, but 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 298

1 Yukon River is really lucky that they supported 2 themself like paying their electricity, paying their 3 water and sewer and paying their gas and everything, 4 and they got leftover cash. They let their economy 5 going and they're really strong, I hope -- they're 6 really strong on commercial fishing. And -- but only 7 chums. Chums. Not chinooks. But chums. They're 8 really lucky and they got high grade oil on them and 9 the chums are really -- I bet the poundage of -- I

10 don't know how much per pound fish cannery buyers are 11 buying them and they're really lucky and so -- and I 12 got question, what about middle -- you know, upper 13 region, like from Holy Cross all the way to Canada, 14 those people are still fishing for commercial fishing 15 just like lower, the people? 16 17 MR. MASCHMANN: You know the majority 18 of the commercial fishing is in Districts 1 and 2. 19 There has been a fishwheel commercial fishing for 20 summer chum in 4A, but that didn't happen this year, 21 and there's a little bit of commercial fishing in -- 22 you know, a thousand fish, or 1,500 fish in District 5 23 and then just a little bit in District 6. So -- and in 24 the fall season District 6 has a little bit of a fall 25 chum fishery that they use for dog food. Local dog 26 teams. But, you know, 90 percent of the commercial 27 fishing is in Districts 1 and 2 most years. 28 29 MR. PETER: Okay. Yeah, thank you. 30 31 (Pause) 32 33 MR. HARRIS: Okay, thank you for those 34 comments. How about we move to the Kuskokwim region. 35 36 (Pause) 37 38 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: As he was talking 39 about up river, going back to that customary one real 40 quick. Thank you for bringing up river up, because I 41 was trying to figure out how this proposal -- so maybe 42 instead of just having lower and middle, add the upper 43 region too, so that it's not just targeting one section 44 of the river, it's the whole entire river. That way it 45 doesn't feel like one area is being more highlighted 46 and targeted directly than the rest, make it equal, 47 between all parts. 48 49 (Pause) 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 299

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. We can go 2 to Kuskokwim if you guys are done talking about Yukon 3 stuff. 4 5 MS. LAVINE: Madame Chair. So just if 6 you want to look at the list of projects, they're on 7 Page 221 of your Council book -- oh, sorry, those are 8 the priority information needs, sorry. So the priority 9 information needs that these projects are responding to

10 are on Page 221. And the projects for the Kuskokwim 11 region are listed on Page 223. And, again, you'll see 12 eight projects that have been forwarded to address 13 information needs on the Kuskokwim River and you can 14 kind of look at them. You can see also, following -- 15 actually starting on Page 222, we have very short 16 reviews of these projects and then following on Page 17 230 you'll see that we have executive summaries of 18 those projects, a little further detail on the cost of 19 the projects and potential partnerships and goals and 20 objectives for projects. 21 22 And, once, again, the list of projects 23 are on Page 223 and if you have any comments related to 24 these projects you can let us know now. 25 26 (Pause) 27 28 MR. PETER: Madame Chair. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 31 Phillip. 32 33 MR. PETER: I got a question on the 34 223, this 2301 -- 2301, these are separate -- how many 35 grants for the top one, is it a three year project and 36 they award it -- annual request for them saying this, 37 how much 104,000 per season, is it? 38 39 MR. HARRIS: That's the average annual 40 request so some years may be higher, some years may be 41 lower but, yeah, it's for a four year request on the 42 project. And this is basically a continuation of the 43 sonar that they're operating to count chinook, chum and 44 sockeye. They want to use it to count coho and 45 whitefish. 46 47 MR. PETER: Okay. 48 49 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: For 2352, on 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 300

1 improving communication sharing of information among 2 subsistence salmon fishers, stakeholder groups, 3 management agencies in the Kuskokwim River drainage, 4 and 2350, community based harvest monitoring network 5 for Kuskokwim River salmon, chinook salmon, are these 6 -- I feel like these two are really significantly 7 similar. 8 9 And the other thing is, as Mr. Andrew

10 was mentioning earlier, when we have too many projects 11 and they're not communicating and they're collecting 12 the same exact information and bothering the same 13 person consistently, it gets tiresome and it's kind of 14 disrespectful to the people that they have to 15 continuously -- it's like they should record themself 16 and when they come to the door just hit play instead of 17 having to continuously talk about these things. 18 Because stories change over periods of time, things 19 people say from this point to the point of maybe a year 20 from now is going to be completely different. There's 21 a difference in even weeks if you try to ask someone. 22 So when we do our harvest monitoring surveys back in 23 the day we always made sure we were there getting live 24 data information. We didn't wait a whole day to do one 25 section of the river and then one day to another 26 section of the river. 27 28 So I'm kind of concerned that if we 29 have too many identical, they could work together and 30 combine efforts to have one harvest networking 31 communications, than -- I just don't want to see too 32 many projects going out to the subsistence users and 33 bothering to the point where they give up on us, and we 34 don't want to have them give up on us because they're 35 our information, they're our live time information, 36 it's really important we get their harvest information, 37 information that could help managers understand how 38 much fish is being taken out and run timing and so the 39 whole logistics of it, I just don't want to see too 40 much pressure being put on our data collectors, our 41 lifetime fishermen. 42 43 (Pause) 44 45 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do you guys have 46 anything you want to add. 47 48 Go ahead, Mr. Brown. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 301

1 MR. BROWN: I have a question on Page 2 223, 2301. Are you guys monitoring your sonar using 3 sonar, on the top, I have a question -- 301. 4 5 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead. 6 7 MR. HARRIS: Yeah, the Department of 8 Fish and Game will be using sonar to monitor coho and 9 whitefish on that project. It's a continuation of the

10 sonar for chinook, chum and sockeye. 11 12 MR. BROWN: When I used to work down 13 there test fishing by the mouth of the Kuskokwim back 14 in the '80s, one time we tried to put sonar but the 15 movement of the water, high and low was the problem so 16 we didn't put the sonar that time. So where do you 17 locate your sonar right there? 18 19 MR. HARRIS: So that sonar is located 20 above Bethel, just below -- I believe it's just below 21 where Kuskokwok Slough comes in below Kwethluk and I 22 don't think they..... 23 24 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: It's -- so it's 25 between Church Slough and Napaskiak Slough, the top end 26 of Napaskiak Slough, right where you get to the Y, this 27 way goes to Akiachuk, this way goes up river to..... 28 29 MR. ANDREW: (In Yup'ik) 30 31 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yeah, right 32 across from the island. 33 34 MR. HARRIS: And I don't believe the 35 tide influences it much there if at all. They've 36 been..... 37 38 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: It still does. 39 40 MR. HARRIS: It still does? 41 42 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yeah, but 43 not..... 44 45 MR. HARRIS: Not as much as the lower 46 river. They've been operating the sonar there for 47 three years now I believe. And so they're starting to 48 get pretty good with it, in operation, so it'd just be 49 continuing it at the same spot. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 302

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Charlie, that 2 sonar project it's already going and what we're trying 3 to find out is, we want to know the coho numbers 4 because we get all the early -- the chinook salmon, the 5 reds, the chums, but they have to pull out -- because 6 they run out of money so if they put this one in, we'll 7 be able to know coho too. 8 9 MR. BROWN: And on the sonar it just

10 comes out black and white, we don't know what kind of 11 fish they go up, how -- how do you guys identify the 12 fish? 13 14 MR. HARRIS: So they use a net 15 apportionment program, so they drift a series of nets 16 with varying size mesh through the sonar area and they 17 take the catch and they take the percentage of fish, 18 say 90 percent were coho and 10 percent were whitefish, 19 they take those percentages and multiply -- and use 20 that to calculate the exact number of coho and 21 whitefish that pass. So let's say there was 100, 100 22 fish they counted passed, and 90 percent were coho, 23 then it'd be 90 coho and 10 whitefish. They use those 24 nets to figure out those numbers. Because, yeah, you 25 still cannot tell the species by sonar. 26 27 MR. BROWN: Thank you. 28 29 (Pause) 30 31 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Sorry, any 32 further questions about fisheries projects. 33 34 Go ahead, Mr. Andrew. 35 36 MR. ANDREW: Thank you, Madame Chair. 37 I'm familiar with a couple of these projects up by my 38 home area. 39 40 The first one, 2301 is right by my fish 41 camp -- across from my fish camp between upper end of 42 Church Slough and upper end of Napaskiak Slough. 43 Sometimes I go over there and watch them test fish. I 44 never monitor their screen on their sonar but I've 45 watched them fish with herring gear, and small mesh 46 gear, they catch a few small fish. Half the time if 47 they're alive they'll take and sample some and let them 48 go alive. A few times I asked them to give me chinook 49 but they were too stingy. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 303

1 (Laughter) 2 3 MR. ANDREW: That other one, the 2308, 4 I believe this is the weir project. They -- Office of 5 Subsistence Management partnered and is working with 6 our -- the Organized Village of Kwethluk, IRA Council, 7 and we all -- Tom was up there once, once or twice this 8 summer -- once. Every now and then they'll come up and 9 meet with us and ask us how they're doing up there and

10 they get their reports of how they're going -- how the 11 projects are going up there. Because with the local 12 hire -- with local hire they do great, and morale is 13 high at the camp and they have their own people working 14 in there and they have, I think the supervisor from 15 Kenai Fishery, too. And Tom was up there this summer 16 too. They keep us informed how the project is going 17 and I personally go over once in awhile to check on 18 those stingy fishermen. 19 20 (Laughter) 21 22 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Tom. 23 24 MR. ANDREW: But they do a good 25 project. Sometimes they'll give me fish to give away 26 to the village, or the nearby fish camp, whoever we can 27 -- whoever wants them for that day. 28 29 Thank you, Madame Chair. 30 31 MR. KRON: Yeah, Madame Chair. John. 32 Greg Risdahl, who's Frank's boss, and I went up and we 33 met with the village of Kwethluk and John was there, 34 and from there we went up and spent a week up at the 35 weir on the Kwethluk. And, again, I was -- I've seen 36 hundreds of weirs across the entire state of Alaska but 37 I was very impressed with the operation. Basically 38 local people that Kwethluk Village had hired were 39 working up there and were doing a very good job. I was 40 very impressed. It's a really good operation based on 41 weirs I've seen all over the state. 42 43 Thank you, Madame Chair. 44 45 MR. ANDREW: And they invite people up 46 there, they have their own (In Yup'ik), their own sod 47 up there. 48 49 (Laughter) 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 304

1 MR. ANDREW: Thank you. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right. Do we 4 have any more questions o r comments to improve these 5 projects for the Kuskokwim. 6 7 Go ahead, Mr. Slats. 8 9 MR. SLATS: Thank you, Madame Chair.

10 You mentioned about that part of your plan was to come 11 up with a real good research plan or something to that 12 effect. 13 14 MR. ANDREW: Idea. 15 16 MR. SLATS: Yeah, ideas. Because it 17 was this past summer that you were sitting up here and 18 then you mentioned that you were hearing it, not just 19 from me, but from some of the others, that there's 20 these unusual -- fish are dying off, and I'm just 21 wondering what we can do about finding causes or what 22 the real cause is, and not just hearing about it from 23 reading about it in the papers and stuff, if we can get 24 research done that, you know, include that as part of 25 your future research projects that would make us. 26 27 MR. HARRIS: So in the spring we're 28 going to be coming back to the RACs to meet with you 29 guys to develop a -- and I was going to talk about this 30 here in a couple minutes but I'll get to it now. To 31 develop a working group to develop the next 2022 FRMP 32 program's priority information needs. So you can start 33 thinking about these things now and we're going to be 34 -- next summer we're going to be getting information 35 needs for the next go around. 36 37 I know that's still a ways out, but 38 that's -- well, I mean 2022 is a way's out, a couple 39 months away is coming up fast for developing these 40 working groups and then thinking about these priority 41 information needs. So we will begin working on that 42 very soon. 43 44 MR. SLATS: Thank you. 45 46 MR. PETER: Madame Chair. 47 48 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 49 Phillip. 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 305

1 MR. PETER: You guys never talk about 2 the beaver dams, that's a really big problem in our 3 area on the sloughs. Especially on sloughs where they 4 have, you know, lakes and we -- inside the Kwig, up 5 river, about maybe three or four miles above Bethel, 6 there's Kwig over there and everybody from here and 7 other areas going -- going in and out, and especially 8 in berry picking season and the moose hunting season. 9 They plug up those small streams where whitefish or

10 blackfish or pikes that are -- can't go out when the 11 water is slow except when the high water comes in, only 12 few fish go out. And in my area, those good sloughs 13 were -- are plugged with beaver dams and that's a 14 really big problem. 15 16 And one time I mentioned to Board of 17 Game to help get us funding for remove those beaver 18 dams and I'm beginning to see in the tributary rivers, 19 like Kwethluk, Kasigluk, Kisaralik, and Tuluksak, 20 they're beginning to start damming where the current is 21 not very strong for them. I got worried about it and 22 those debris, especially those debris on those 23 tributaries, spawning, the places for chinook, 24 graylings and trouts and so forth. So it will be good 25 if you find funding for us so that local people could 26 try and clear those beaver dams and debris in the 27 tributaries. 28 29 Thank you, Madame Chair. 30 31 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, 32 Phillip. I wrote it down so that we will add it to 33 spring meeting when they ask for what we should do for 34 our future. But we're talking about right now. 35 36 MR. PETER: Yeah. Yeah. 37 38 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: So do we have any 39 comments on any of these proposals right now for the 40 Kuskokwim River. If not, can we entertain to go I got 41 to bring my husband to the airport. 42 43 (No comments) 44 45 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, go ahead. 46 47 MR. HARRIS: I have one -- or two 48 little points to bring up before I go if that's okay 49 with..... 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 306

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yeah, that'd be 2 great because you're supposed to be checking in in 3 about 25 minutes, is your deadline. 4 5 MR. HARRIS: I think we're already 6 delayed anyways on that. 7 8 (Laughter) 9

10 MR. HARRIS: But this will only take a 11 minute. 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 14 15 MR. HARRIS: Okay. It's a brief update 16 for the other two fisheries programmatic areas, the 17 Fisheries Regulatory cycle and the Partners for 18 Fisheries Monitoring Program. This is only an update. 19 Please ask questions. I'll do my best to answer them, 20 Robbin, will hopefully help me. 21 22 But we'll start with the fisheries 23 regulatory cycle update. 24 25 The Federal Subsistence Board took 26 action on the last regulatory cycle of proposals during 27 their April 2019 public regulatory meeting. The 28 revised guidelines have been published in the Federal 29 Register and the new fisheries regulatory guides for 30 the years 2019 through 2021 are now available. The 31 next call for proposals will be in early 2020 so early 32 next year and the Council will have an opportunity at 33 the next meeting to discuss and submit any proposals 34 that they see fit. 35 36 This concludes the regulatory cycle 37 update. 38 39 Are there any questions. 40 41 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: What month of 42 2020? 43 44 MR. HARRIS: I believe the meeting will 45 be at the end of February or March. 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Call for 48 proposals. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 307

1 MR. HARRIS: The call for proposals 2 will be open during the time of the meeting,barring any 3 more government shut downs. 4 5 (Laughter) 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: What's our 8 deadline is, I guess, what I'm trying to get at. 9 What's our deadline for fisheries call for proposals,

10 for fisheries for 2020. 11 12 MR. HARRIS: So the deadline is 13 typically in March. We're not sure exactly when it's 14 going to open but it's usually open for -- it's either 15 60 or 90 days, I believe it's 90, but it will be open 16 during the meeting cycle so we can get them on record 17 and get them started then. 18 19 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 20 21 MR. HARRIS: If there's any more 22 questions on the regulatory cycle I'll take them now. 23 24 (No comments) 25 26 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: No comments or 27 questions. 28 29 MR. HARRIS: Looking like there aren't 30 any, we'll go with the Partners for Fisheries 31 Monitoring update. 32 33 The Partners for Fisheries Monitoring 34 Program seeks to strengthen Alaska Native and rural 35 involvement in Federal subsistence management by 36 providing funding for biologists, social scientists 37 educator positions in Alaska Native and rural non- 38 profit organizations with the intent of increasing the 39 organization's ability to participate in Federal 40 subsistence management. The Office of Subsistence 41 Management has begun developing cooperative agreements 42 for the 2020 to 2023 Partners for Fisheries Monitoring 43 Program. 44 45 Seven partner organizations were chosen 46 through a competitive process. These organizations are 47 Bristol Bay Native Association, the Native Village of 48 Eyak, the Native Village of Napaimute, and you'll have 49 to forgive me, I'm just going to have to say the 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 308

1 initials ONC. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Orutsararmiut 4 Native Council. 5 6 MR. HARRIS: Orutsararmiut Native 7 Council. 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Say O.....

10 11 MR. HARRIS: O. 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: .....rut..... 14 15 MR. HARRIS: Rut. 16 17 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: .....sarar..... 18 19 MR. HARRIS: .....sarar..... 20 21 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: .....miut. 22 23 MR. HARRIS: .....miut. Orutsararmiut. 24 25 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yea..... 26 27 (Laughter) 28 29 MR. HARRIS: Traditional Native 30 Council, the Q Tribe of Unalaska, and the Yakutat 31 Tlingit Tribe. 32 33 This concludes the Partners for 34 Fisheries Monitoring update. 35 36 Are there any questions on this. 37 38 (No comments) 39 40 MR. HARRIS: Okay, well, that was all 41 we had. Thank you. 42 43 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. All 44 right, if it's okay with my Council that we adjourn for 45 the rest of the evening -- or, sorry, recess -- I take 46 it back -- recess for the rest of the evening. 47 48 (Council nods affirmatively) 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 309

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 2 3 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 4 5 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Eva. 6 7 MS. PATTON: If I may make a quick 8 update here. So we will be able to continue with our 9 meeting tomorrow morning. We have a limited timeframe

10 though until we lose quorum, so, because a lot of 11 flights were backed up, I was able to get some Council 12 members rescheduled on later flights but a few I wasn't 13 able to. So we would have until about 11:00 a.m., for 14 the Council to maintain quorum. So I was wondering if 15 the Council might be interested in reconvening the 16 meeting at 8:00 a.m., in order to have a little more 17 time to conclude the final -- we have about four or 18 five more agency reports and opportunity for discussion 19 from the Council that wasn't here on the first day. 20 There is opportunity to discuss Board of Game proposals 21 if there's time as well when we conclude the other 22 Council's business. And discussion on the Council's 23 annual report, which is really important to get your 24 feedback on that tomorrow morning. 25 26 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. If it's 27 okay with you guys, you guys can go at 8:00 a.m. I 28 will be late. My baby's school, we drop her off by 8:00 29 o'clock and then I have two little boys to drop off on 30 the other side of town to Grandma's house so I will be 31 running late tomorrow morning if you guys start at 8:00 32 o'clock. Mr. James Charles, I'll entertain you to be 33 the Chairman for the time being while I'm gone. 34 35 MR. CHARLES: Oh, yeah -- yeah, okay. 36 37 (Laughter) 38 39 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: And then you two 40 can run it. If that's okay with you guys, if you guys 41 want to start at 8:00 a.m. 42 43 (Council nods affirmatively) 44 45 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Do we need 46 a motion or anything like that, Eva or -- okay. 47 48 MR. ANDREW: Just call a recess. 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

Page 310

1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. We'll go 2 ahead and recess for the evening. Thank you very much 3 I'll see you guys tomorrow morning when we get back 4 here. 5 6 (Off record) 7 8 (PROCEEDINGS TO BE CONTINUED) 9

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50




Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473

1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ) 4 )ss. 5 STATE OF ALASKA ) 6 7 I, Salena A. Hile, Notary Public in and for the 8 state of Alaska and reporter for Computer Matrix Court 9 Reporters, LLC, do hereby certify:

10 11 THAT the foregoing pages numbered through 12 contain a full, true and correct Transcript of the 13 YUKON KUSKOKWIM DELTA FEDERAL SUBSISTENCE REGIONAL 14 ADVISORY COUNCIL MEETING, VOLUME II taken 15 electronically on the 7th day of November at Bethel, 16 Alaska; 17 18 THAT the transcript is a true and 19 correct transcript requested to be transcribed and 20 thereafter transcribed by under my direction and 21 reduced to print to the best of our knowledge and 22 ability; 23 24 THAT I am not an employee, attorney, or 25 party interested in any way in this action. 26 27 DATED at Anchorage, Alaska, this 6th 28 day of December 2019. 29 30 31 32 Salena A. Hile 33 Notary Public, State of Alaska 34 My Commission Expires: 09/16/22 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50

yukon-kuskokwim delta alaska federal …nov 07, 2019 · 7 madame chair rogers: we'll go ahead...

Documents