Yasuo Kobayashi and Fumiko Nakayama –

Living Aikido: Part 1

November 18, 2012 Christopher Li Comment

Chris Li with members of Hasegawa Dojo, Yasuo Kobayashi and Moriteru Ueshiba

Doshu in Iwama

A Roundtable Discussion with the Kodaira Aikido Renmei

This is the English translation of a round table discussion in Japanese from around 1988 with

Aikido Shihan Yasuo Kobayashi and his younger sister, Fumiko Nakayama sensei, who was a

favorite of Aikido Founder Morihei Ueshiba O-Sensei.

The moderators of this discussion were members of the Kodaira Aikido Renmei (小平市合気

道連盟), Masakatsu Shinozaki (篠征勝), Shigeko Amano (天野成子) and Kunihira

Nishimura (西村邦平).

I first met Yasuo Kobayashi in the late 1980’s in Colorado, where Mitsugi Saotome had

invited him to be a guest instructor at the Aikido Schools of Ueshiba summer camp. Some

years later I would end up training with one of his students, Hiroyuki Hasegawa, while living

in Saitama. Hasegawa sensei’s relationship with Kobayashi Dojo was on and off during that

period, but every time I ran into Kobayashi sensei he would treat me with courtesy and

kindness.

Yasuo Kobayashi was born in Tokyo in 1936 and would start training in Aikido in 1954 at the

old Aikikai Hombu Dojo in Wakamatsu-cho. He currently heads a group of some 120 dojo

affiliated with the Aikikai Foundation under the banner of Aikido Kobayashi Dojo, which

forms a substantial portion of the backbone of the Aikikai in the Kanto region of Eastern

Japan. Some people have called Kobayashi Dojo “the Aikikai within the Aikikai”.

For those interested in more information, “Aikido, My Way“, the Story of Kobayashi Dojos,

is available in English on the Aikido Kobayashi Dojo website.

Yasuo Kobayashi taking ukemi for Hiroshi Tada

Round Table Discussion: Living Aikido, Part 1

With Yasuo Kobayashi shihan and Fumiko Nakayama

sensei

(English translation by Christopher Li)

Aikido around Showa year 30 (1955)

Moderator: The Kodaira Aikido Renmei is commemorating its tenth anniversary, and will be

publishing a commemorative brochure. Today we would like to speak with Yasuo Kobayashi

sensei and Fumiko Nakayama sensei about their personal Aikido histories and their

reminiscences of Morihei Ueshiba O-Sensei.

First of all, Kobayashi sensei – when did you first begin?

Kobayashi: That was when I entered the university, so I was eighteen. The spring of my

eighteenth year, Showa year 30 (1955), I think that I went to see Aikido around the time that I

finished high school…

At the Kodokan I had become friends with the son of an Iaido instructor, Dansaki sensei (壇

崎), and he said that there was this kind of Budo, and that we should go see it.

So I was invited, and went to go see it – after I finished my entrance examinations and entered

the university I decided that I wanted to try it.

Moderator: Was it still the old one story building at that time?

Kobayashi: The old building was about seventy tatami in size. In one section war refugees

were borrowing six tatami sections each. Those people were still there. When I started it was

all covered with tatami, but when (Ikuo) Iimura sensei (飯村郁男) and those people started it

seems that there were still some bare wooden floors left.

Ikuo Iimura at the 40th All Japan Aikido Demonstration, Nippon Budokan – 2002

Moderator: Iimura sensei also started after the war, didn’t he?

Kobayashi: I think that’s right. Wasn’t it around Showa year 24 or 25 (1949 or 1950)? The

earliest one was Arikawa sensei, after that maybe Yamaguchi sensei and Tada sensei. After

that was our generation, with Tada sempai, who’s in France, and the other uchi-deshi who

have scattered around the world.

Moderator: Around what year was that?

Kobayashi: Those who started from around Showa year 29 (1954) to Showa year 35 (1965)

are now acting around the world as the backbone of the Aikikai.

Moderator: I have heard that prior to that time students were not allowed to enroll, was it

about thirty years ago that this became permitted?

Kobayashi: That’s right. At that time things were centered around Doshu (Ni-Dai Kisshomaru

sensei), Morihei O-Sensei was in Iwama and was mostly absent. Doshu was still working, and

I think that Tohei sensei (Koichi Tohei / 藤平光一) had gone to Hawaii.

Moderator: Was that his first trip to Hawaii?

Nakayama: I think that was his second trip.

Kobayashi: Anyway, I heard about him, but I didn’t know anything of Tohei sensei for about

six months.

Moderator: Who was leading the practices?

Kobayashi: Practice was only in the morning and the evening. The morning training began at

6:30 and the evening training began around 5:00 or 6:00. Sometimes when I went Tada sensei

would be teaching. Then Doshu would return around 6 or 6:30 and teach, or if he wasn’t there

then Tada sensei or other seniors would instruct.

Moderator: Did you have a fascination for the training?

Kobayashi: I did Judo, but the style of Aikido was different, and it was interesting.

Moderator: Was it the strength that you found interesting?

The Korean wrestler Rikidozan, known as the “Father of Puroresu” in Japan

Kobayashi: That was just the time of the pro-wrestling boom with Rikidozan (力道山), you

know. Well, there’s nothing in Judo like the way we throw people over and over, and the style

of training is different – I thought that I had never seen or experienced a training style like

that before and it was interesting.

The Rikidozan boom was around Showa year 27 or 28 (1952 or 1953), pro-wrestling was

popular just about the time that I was in high school.

Moderator: Is that right? That was just when they were beginning to put televisions out on the

street for people to watch.

Ben and Mike Sharpe, Canadian pro-wrestlers

With Rikidozan and Masahiko Kimura in 1954

Kobayashi: And the Sharpe brothers (シャープ兄弟), too. (explosive laughter)

Moderator: What about women at that time?

Nakayama: There were very few women at that time.

Kobayashi: Maybe just one or two.

Moderators: Who are your contemporaries from that time?

Kobayashi: Of those still remaining, there are Yamaguchi sensei and Tada sensei who started

before me, and Tamura sempai in France. Then there is Asai sensei in Germany. After that

there’s me, Mitsugi Saotome in America, and then about two years later Yamada in America,

Chiba, Kanai, all uchi-deshi. Sugano was there too, he would commute to the Dojo.

Training in the 30’s (1955-1965)

Moderator: Was the training method then different than it is now?

Kobayashi: It was exactly the same, the same, but joint techniques, techniques that twisted

and strengthened the joints, were the most common. To my recollection, techniques like

Kokyu-nage were only done after we started giving demonstrations.

Since it would be just unbearable to watch everyone do Ikkyo or Nikyo (in a demonstration)

they created techniques that could be done with a single movement. So, if you did those

techniques in front of Ueshiba O-Sensei you would be scolded. He’d say things like – it’s just

impossible to throw anybody that way.

Moderator: Did O-Sensei use those kinds of techniques?

Kobayashi: He would do techniques that were similar to Irimi-nage, but we were just

imitating those things for the demonstrations. So if we did those things during training we

would be scolded.

Moderator: Did you practice those things when you were training on your own?

Kobayashi: Yes, that’s right. When sensei came out it would be the end of the demonstration,

so we were doing those things when he wasn’t there.

Moderator: How about the training?

Kobayashi: Ikkyo, Nikyo and joint techniques. For throwing techniques we would do things

like Shiho-nage, Kote-gaeshi and Irimi-nage.

Nakayama: The focus was on zagi (seated) techniques.

Aikido Founder Morihei Ueshiba O-Sensei at Aikikai Hombu in Tokyo – Yasuo

Kobayashi entering right

The Founder O-Sensei’s Lifestyle in Tokyo

Moderator: How often did the Founder O-Sensei come to Tokyo at that time.

Kobayashi: I can’t really say. He’d appear if he got the urge, there were also times when he

didn’t train, and towards the end he’d pop-in suddenly now and then. He’d come out to

practice, do what he wanted, and then just talk the rest of the time away, I can’t really say

how much he was there.

The current system of training five times a day started around Showa year 32 (1957). Until

then there was only training in the morning and the evening, with some special individual

training in the in-between times.

Moderator: Was the individual training voluntary?

Kobayashi: No, the uchi-deshi were just rambling around, so in the off-times there would be

individual instruction.

Moderator: Yes.

Leadership

Kobayashi: After Doshu quit his job there were five classes a day, 6:30-7:30 and 8:00-9:00,

then 3:00-4:00, 5:00-6:00 and 6:30-7:30.

Moderater: Were you permitted to attend all of the classes?

Kobayashi: Yes, yes, that’s right.

Moderator: How many people were commuting to the classes at that time (*people who did

not live in the dojo)?

Kobayashi: At one practice there would be about 15 people at the most.

Moderator: Is that all?

Kobayashi: Between 10 and 15 people, as time went on the numbers increased, of course.

Moderator: Were there about the same number of commuting students and uchi-deshi?

Kobayashi: Yes, but of course there were more uchi-deshi there in the mornings.

Moderator: Didn’t you begin teaching around Showa year 34 (1959)?

Kobayashi: Yes, there was no organization or system of instructors, so when Doshu wasn’t

there one of the uchi-deshi was just told to go do it.

Moderator: You had graduated from the university.

Kobayashi: That’s right, so when there was no instructor and I was asked if I had free time I’d

just drift into it. There weren’t so many people living there as uchi-deshi and planning to

become professionals in Aikido. People would stay there and then commute to school or their

companies. Depending upon the circumstances people would be there for two or three

months, or sometimes you’d wake up in the morning and someone would be sleeping next to

you.

Moderator: Did the uchi-deshi pay monthly tuition?

Kobayashi: Those who were not training to be professionals would pay. Just as foreigners pay

when they train at my Dojo. From there they would go to work or school – there were many

people like that.

Moderator: How much was the regular tuition at that time?

Kobayashi: Around 300 yen. When I was a student it was a time when a cup of coffee cost 30

yen!

Moderator: That was quite expensive.

Kobayashi: It didn’t seem that expensive at the time.

Moderator: How much was your first salary?

Kobayashi: At the time a university graduate made around 13,800 per month.

Nakayama: That was a time when you’d have croquettes today and then croquettes again the

next day.

Kobayashi: The part time wage for a university student was 200 yen, at that time heavy labor

was paid 250 yen. So a student could make 5,000 or 6,000 yen per month. One day’s pay for a

student would be around 250 to 300 yen. Out of that you’d have to save something to build a

house.

Moderator: At that time you were training in the old Dojo, weren’t you?

Kobayashi: Until Showa year 42 (1967).

Interview, Translation

Yasuo Kobayashi and Fumiko Nakayama

on Living Aikido: Part 2

November 25, 2012 Christopher Li Comment

Yasuo Kobayashi at Meiji University in 1956

A Roundtable Discussion with the Kodaira Aikido Renmei

This is part 2 of an English translation of a round table discussion in Japanese from around

1988 with Yasuo Kobayashi and his younger sister, Fumiko Nakayama.

You may wish to read part 1 before reading this section, in which Kobayashi sensei discusses

his interest in Japanese pro-wrestling, and a little bit about what training at old Aikikai

Hombu Dojo was like in the 1950’s.

The first time that I recall seeing Kobayashi sensei was at the first Aikido Friendship

Demonstration held in Tokyo by Stan Pranin and Aiki News. See “Yasuo Kobayashi: A Man

of His Word” by Stan Pranin for an interesting story behind his participation in that

demonstration.

More information about Yasuo Kobayashi, and Aikido Kobayashi Dojo, is available on the

Kobayashi Dojo website.

Yasuo Kobayashi taking ukemi for Koichi Tohei

Round Table Discussion: Living Aikido, Part 2

With Yasuo Kobayashi shihan and Fumiko Nakayama

sensei

(English translation by Christopher Li)

Becoming an Instructor

Moderator: Was it two or three years after graduating from the university that you were sent

out from Hombu as an instructor?

Kobayashi: To Kawasaki and other places…

Moderator: Were you able to develop real ability in three or four years?

Nakayama: The training was very severe!

Kobayashi: The training was severe, and we trained a lot. We’d just throw ourselves into it.

Nakayama: It felt like whenever there was free time we would find a partner and start

training.

Moderator: Did you train harder than third and fourth year university students train now?

Kobayashi: We did, didn’t we. Training at university training camps now is easier than our

regular training was then.

Moderator: !!!

Kobayashi: We were young, so whenever we were in the Dojo we would try to crush each

other.

Moderator: So the uchi-deshi completed what would be ten years or more training for us in

two or three years?

Kobayashi: We didn’t go out to train, so after morning training finished we would play Shogi

(Japanese Chess) or Sumo, or experiment with various approaches. That’s why I know some

strange techniques!

Nakayama Sensei Begins Aikido

Moderator: Had you already enrolled at that time?

Nakayama: I started in Showa year 36 (1961), the year that I graduated from high school.

Kobayashi: Yes, that’s right.

Nakayama: I went to see Kobayashi sensei’s test – it was Nikyo and Sankyo, all painful

techniques, so I went to see that.

Moderator: Did Kobayashi sensei encourage you to go?

Nakayama: No, I didn’t know anything about it, so I went to see if there was anything to it.

Moderator: Where there already women training at that time?

Nakayama: There were a few there, maybe two or three.

Moderator: Are any of them still training today?

Kanshu Sunadomari and Fukiko Sunadomari with Morihei Ueshiba O-Sensei in Kyushu

Kobayashi: There was Tamura-san, Okubo-san…and the younger sister of Sunadomari shihan

from Kyushu was there (Fukiko Sunadomari / 砂泊扶妃子).

Thrown From the Very First Day

Nakayama: It wasn’t like now, when people throw you softly and gently because you are a

woman, from the very first day you would be thrown vigorously.

Kobayashi: There was no particular instruction in ukemi.

Nakayama: I was treated in the same way as the more experienced practitioners, since I was

Kobayashi-san’s younger sister. You could say that I learned ukemi naturally in order to avoid

injury, or you could say that I was made to learn…

Kobayashi: Ukemi and those things were not taught, we would do suwari-waza, so you would

naturally roll around from a low height. However, those you couldn’t endure it would end up

quitting.

Nakayama: We would do Nikyo or Sankyo/Yonkyo until you just couldn’t take it anymore.

I’d return home with both arms hurting so much that I couldn’t lift them up, and there were

times when my hands were too swollen to hold a pair of chopsticks.

Kobayashi: There were many people who had done some kind of Budo before, so we were

comrades right from the start.

Nakayama: While sharing in their severe training, in some unknown place inside of me I

found that I was able to keep up.

Kobayashi: That’s because the focus was on suwari-waza.

Moderator: You weren’t taught systematically, the way that you are now?

Nakayama: You weren’t taught, the only way was to to study on your own. All that Sensei

would say is “Hai, Nikyo’s next”.

Kobayashi: And there wasn’t any explanation.

Nakayama: If you just kept training, at some point maybe you would understand…. The style

was to somehow learn each thing naturally through the body.

Kobayashi: Even now some of the older instructors teach in this manner. That was the reason

that I began gathering beginners together for instruction separately.

Moderator: Did you start that after the new building (Aikikai Hombu Dojo) was completed?

Kobayashi: Even before that, when I was instructing I would tell the beginners to come over

here and gather them together, although it’s much more trouble, since if I let them do

whatever they want I would be able to practice myself as well. However, I want even one

person to improve.

Moderator: So even at that time you were using the current methods in your own way.

Kobayashi: That’s right, thinking in my own way. When Doshu or the sempai gathered

together I would voice my opinion. They were positive while I was talking about it and

then…. The one who was good at it was Tohei sensei. That’s why he was popular. However,

if you regulate things too much the Yudansha don’t like it. Even if you tell people they must

do it one way there were some people who would go their own way. Beginners appreciate it.

Tohei sensei was the one who started the children’s class.

Moderator: Around what year was that?

Kobayashi: After the building (Aikikai Hombu Dojo) was completed.

Aikido Spreads

Moderator: Did Aikido begin to spread from that time?

Kobayashi: Doshu quit his job in Showa year 32 (1957), at that time the Yoshinkan was more

vigorous. Their name was appearing in the mass media. What Doshu did is to promote the

popularity of Ueshiba Aikido. Because it’s a thing created by Ueshiba sensei. Once the older

students came home and got their lives settled they would come to visit. In the mass media

publication of weekly magazines resumed and there was a boom in television and radio – at

that time he struck out in full force with Ueshiba Aikido.

Moderator: Was it at that time that the first demonstration was held?

O-Sensei and Demonstrations

Kobayashi: The first demonstration was held in Showa year 30 (1955). That was right after I

started. The first one was held in June on the roof of Takashimaya. They began from that

time. Until that time demonstrations were all done by Ueshiba sensei alone, everyone else

only took ukemi. For that reason it was revolutionary. Doshu convinced him to do it for the

future growth of Aikido.

Yasuo Kobayashi, to the left of Aikido Founder Morihei Ueshiba O-Sensei

Moderator: When was the demonstration where Kobayashi sensei is seen pushing on the jo?

Kobayashi: That was my first demonstration, at Yamano Hall.

Nakayama: The one at Asahi was around Showa year 37 (1962).

Kobayashi: We gave demonstrations at Yamano Hall and at Asahi, the Kyoritsu Kokaido and

Hibiya Kokaido. Everything had to stop at the demonstration when Ueshiba sensei came.

When Sensei came to the venue everyone else would be cut out. So it was really difficult for

us uchi-deshi. In the morning we set all of the clocks back. (laughing) In the morning Sensei

would say “Is it time to go?”. We’d say “Sensei, your breakfast is ready” and then use that

time to get ready. The time from when Sensei came out until we got to the venue was really

hard. We’d have the taxi drive around in circles on purpose…

Moderator: Even at that time, did the Founder dislike public demonstrations?

Kobayashi: That was true for the first few years, but he eventually resigned himself to the

changing times.

Nakayama: Speaking of the female demonstrations, we would have to take time off of work

for the demonstrations, and anyway the number of women was quite small – we were sent out

to quite a few locations.

Kobayashi: In between O-Sensei would take a week off for training camps.

Moderator: What was the content?

Kobayashi: O-Sensei would teach them, so it was talk of the Gods and such, I don’t think that

there was any sense of performing techniques in a system.

Nakayama: And things like ○△□ .

Kobayashi: Photographers would come to take pictures, but even if they liked something and

asked him to do it one more time he would never repeat a technique.

Moderator: There were two books published before the war, “Budo” and “Budo Renshu”,

was it only those techniques?

Kobayashi: Yes, that’s right. Of course, we did not do staff (jo) or sword (ken).

Moderator: Did O-Sensei use the words “Ki” and Kokyu-ryoku”?

Kobayashi: He would speak to us using the names of the Gods, so I don’t really know – the

one who taught us clearly and understandably was Tohei sensei.

Nakayama: O-Sensei was very friendly towards the women. When you grabbed a hand or a

foot he’d say “Do it like this…”, we were very happy.

Moderator: Was O-Sensei in his seventies at that time?

Nakayama: Yes, that’s right.

Moderator: What did it feel like to grab O-Sensei’s wrist?

O-Sensei’s Techniques and Physique

Kobayashi: His body was highly conditioned. Everybody flew when they were taking ukemi,

but that was because if you didn’t fall you would have been slammed down. That gradually

changed to jumping, and just showing the form of falling…

It wasn’t like being thrown by a normal person, it felt as if you were sinking into the tatami.

From that sharpness things mellowed over the years and come to be expressed in Kata. We

who were there take ukemi based upon our experiences from that time, but those who have

only seen the later form don’t really understand. That in and of itself is a reason for the

change.

Nakayama: His forearms were extremely thick, since you couldn’t wrap your hands around

them it felt as if you were just touching them.

Kobayashi: We went to Iwama and were made to work in the fields. It was early, too. We

were raised in the city…

Moderator: Was his musculature normally soft?

Kobayashi: I often gave him massages. My fingers couldn’t sink in, it was very tiring.

Moderator: Even at that age?

Kobayashi: Even if you pushed nothing worked, but through that you would come to

understand O-Sensei well. It was hard, giving those massages every night… His muscles were

slightly slack, but the muscles in his back were like bumps.

Moderator: What was his training like?

Kobayashi: You would spring up and when you were told “Come!” it felt as if you had no

choice but to go (and be thrown). Even the photographs have that kind of impact. Even when

he told you to come strike him you couldn’t move. But in the end there was nothing to do but

go. You felt as if you were trying hard, but you would be handled like a child, after a couple

of times he would move slightly and you would instantly fall. First of all this (the heart) was

being suppressed. When you were holding a sword or something, he would strike a hanmi

stance and say “Come strike!”, but you still found yourself unable to move.

Moderator: What about sword and staff (jo).

Kobayashi: O-Sensei would do those things, but each time that he did them it was different,

so each of the instructors who recall that time remembers it differently. Well, anyway, the

way of cutting doesn’t change so much.

Moderator: Have you ever thought that you cannot understand Aikido unless you understand

O-Sensei’s talk of the Gods?

Kobayashi: We just wanted him to stop as quickly as possible…

Nakayama: Our legs would fall asleep, and it was cold – it was really hard in the winter.

Sometimes technical training would finish in ten or fifteen minutes.

Moderator: Which Gods did he speak about?

Naohi Deguchi, eldest daughter of Onisaburo Deguchi

with Morihei Ueshiba O-Sensei at the Oomoto Tokyo Headquarters in 1966

Kobayashi: From Oomoto-kyo, I guess. (大本教).

Nakayama: People came from Oomoto-kyo too. Those kind of people would nod along to O-

Sensei’s lectures.

Moderator: Event if you don’t understand religious matters you can do Aikido, the techniques

are very rational.

Kobayashi: Yes, that’s because training is enjoyable.

Moderator: Nakayama sensei, what techniques did you learn when your were taught directly

by O-Sensei?

Nakayama: Ikkyo, and suwari-waza, do it like this, or like this. I was told that I had more

potential than my older brother.

Kobayashi: Hahaha. (explosive laughter) He really told her that!

Moderator: So, did you have potential after all?

Nakayama: I wonder…. It’s just that Aikido is something that becomes engrossing, once you

become fascinated with it, then if you have free time you train, train and go to the dojo for the

whole day – when I had to work I often commuted in the mornings and the evenings.

Moderator: As to the severity of Nikyo, when Nakayama sensei applies it to you it’s really

effective. As if you are shocked by electricity.

Nakayama: That must be because I learned it through my body.

Moderator: Of course, Kobayashi sensei is the same way, but recently has he become kinder?

Nakayama: Me too. (laughing) Since we did severe training with the old instructors.

Moderator: I have been told that in the old days training was limited to Ikkyo and Irimi-nage.

Nakayama: No, that’s not true.

Moderator: Did O-Sensei come out for most of the training sessions after he emerged from

Iwama?

Nakayama: Well, only when he felt like it, but sometimes I think that there were times when

he felt that he had to come out.

Moderator: There were times when he felt like that?

Nakayama: O-Sensei’s lectures were very difficult and hard to understand. Amaterasu O-

Mikami or something or other.

Moderator: Kobayashi sensei, are there many parts of your Aikido that are a product of your

own conception?

Kobayashi: He’d say “like this”, but O-sensei would absolutely never say “do it this way”.

The same when cutting with a sword, he would never talk about the details of how to hold it.

He would show the form (the Kata), and that would be it. When you practice for many years

your own ideas begin to creep in, and Doshu never regulated things.

Nakayama: The best way was to attend the classes of many different instructors. Like Tohei

sensei, Yamaguchi sensei, Tada sensei, Okumura sensei, Arikawa sensei, etc.. Attend the

classes of various teachers and from there grasp your own techniques.

Moderator: Invent them?

Kobayashi: Whether that was good or not, I don’t know.

Nakayama: That’s what I did.

Moderator: If you wanted to, you could practice five times a day.

Nakayama: That’s right, in the time between you were free, so after practice you could grab a

partner… We really trained a lot.

Yasuo Kobayashi and Fumiko Nakayama

on Living Aikido: Part 3

December 2, 2012 Christopher Li Comment

Yasuo Kobayashi in front of Aikido Kobayashi Dojo

A Roundtable Discussion with the Kodaira Aikido Renmei

This is part 3 of an English translation of a round table discussion in Japanese from around

1988 with Yasuo Kobayashi and his younger sister, Fumiko Nakayama.

You may also wish to read:

Part 1, in which Kobayashi sensei discusses his interest in Japanese pro-wrestling, and a little

bit about what training at old Aikikai Hombu Dojo was like in the 1950’s.

Part 2, in which Kobayashi sensei and Nakayama sensei discuss a little bit about the teaching

methods at Aikikai Hombu Dojo in the 1950’s, and about the first public demonstrations of

Aikido in Japan.

More information about Yasuo Kobayashi, and Aikido Kobayashi Dojo, is available on the

Kobayashi Dojo website.

Yasuo Kobayashi sensei

Round Table Discussion: Living Aikido, Part 3

With Yasuo Kobayashi shihan and Fumiko Nakayama

sensei

(English translation by Christopher Li)

O-Sensei in His Twilight Years

Moderator: Could you speak about the time before O-Sensei passed away – around Showa

year 43 or 44 (1968 or 1969)?

Kobayashi: When he got lonely he would become sick. He was away in Iwama, and there was

a Dojo in Iwama, but Saito sensei was still working for the railroad. There was somebody

taking care of him, but we’d get phone calls “I’m critically ill, send someone here”. So I’d be

told “You go!”, but when I got there he’d say “Thanks for coming – go warm my bath”. A lot

of doctors would come to morning practice, so he’d pretend to be ill again. When you’re

training even though you say that you don’t feel well you’d think that you wouldn’t show so

many sword cuts. Shortly before he entered the hospital he was carried up the steps into the

Dojo, but as soon as he was in the Dojo he’d suddenly be standing up, and moving and

training as usual…

When we realized that he was truly feeling ill it was already too late.

Moderator: His liver, was he hospitalized for liver cancer?

Kobayashi: For about three months. He kept saying “I want to go home, I want to go home”.

They allowed him to go home because of his age.

Nakayama: Even then, he was still vigorous.

Moderator: That must be Ki. There are stories remaining from when Tesshu Yamaoka (山岡

鉄舟) also trained shortly before he passed away.

Kobayashi: It must have been Ki, Ki-power. That’s the only possibility.

Moderator: In the practices before he passed away, did it still feel as if you were sinking into

the tatami when your were thrown?

Kobayashi: At that time he had entered into the realm of Kata, we had experienced the

changes up to that time, so it was okay, but it was a problem for people who only imitate that

period.

Moderator: I’ve heard that he would throw without touching.

Kobayashi: Yes.

Moderator: Did he go abroad at that time?

Kobayashi: Tohei sensei went to Hawaii, Tadashi Abe sensei (阿部正) went to France.

Aikido Founder Morihei Ueshiba O-Sensei teaching at the Honolulu Aiki Dojo in 1961

Moderator: When did O-Sensei go to Hawaii?

Kobayashi: I think that it was Showa year 37 (1962). (*Note: O-Sensei actually came to

Hawaii in 1961 to dedicate the opening of the Honolulu Aiki Dojo. He was accompanied by

Koichi Tohei and Nobuyoshi Tamura. His grandson, Moriteru Ueshiba Doshu, and great-

grandson, Mitsuteru Ueshiba Waka-Sensei came to Honolulu Hawaii in 2011 for “Aikido

Celebration 2011”, the celebration of the 50th anniversary of O-Sensei’s visit to Hawaii)

Nakayama: All of us went to see him off.

Moderator: What was the ranking system at that time? I think that Nakayama sensei was

promoted rather too slowly.

Kobayashi: Promotion was by recommendation only. Once a year.

Nakayama: In my time there were also Kyu ranks.

Moderator: Did Kyu ranking begin from that time?

Kobayashi: There were no Kyu ranks during my time, but they had them during your time?

Kyu ranks were also by recommendation. From Showa year 33 (1958) Kyu ranks were

instituted, and the uchi-deshi of the time would take ukemi – we took ukemi for all of the

tests! Well, there were five or six people, but it would sometimes take as long as four hours.

Nakayama: I remember taking a Kyu test once.

Aikido Kobayashi Dojo / 合気道小林道場

The Birth of Aikido Kobayashi Dojo (合気道小林道場)

Moderator: Sensei, was it after O-Sensei passed away that you opened a Dojo in Kodaira?

Kobayashi: No, that’s not right, it was the period when student athletics was growing. O-

Sensei passed away on April 26th, Showa year 44 (1969). I opened the Dojo on the 7th or 8th.

Moderator: So that was before he passed away.

Kobayashi: I was worried about whether to open it or not, we didn’t know when he would

pass away…

Moderator: Were there other private Dojo at that time?

Kobayashi: There were a few, but there weren’t many. It was the first case among the uchi-

deshi. I did it without interfering with the Hombu times. That’s because Sunday was a

holiday.

Moderator: There were Karate Dojo established at that time, but what about Aikido?

Nakayama: That was an age when people said “What’s Aikido?”.

Moderator: Nakayama sensei, around what year did your photo appear in “Shufu no Tomo” (

主婦の友 / “The Housewife’s Friend”)?

Nakayama: I think that it was around Showa year 36 or 37 (1961 or 1962). From around that

time I appeared in magazines and on TV for publicity purposes. I appeared in self-defense

articles during the summer editions of “Josei Sebun” (女性セブン / “Women’s Seven”) and

“Shufu no Tomo”, I also appeared once on “Afternoon Show” (アフタヌーンショー).

On Influences from Outside of Aikido

Moderator: So there were many events connected to the growth of Aikido, and now

Kobayashi sensei has many Dojo in Japan and abroad. It must have taken a great effort to

reach this point. Was there some kind of inner, or spiritual, training that supported you to this

point? We have countless books, and things like the Ichikukai and Tempu Nakamura, but

what about things in that area? First of all, how did you first begin Budo?

Kobayashi: There was a Koban (Police Box) in front of our family’s home. One of the police

officers there from Kyushu did Judo, and often came to visit our house – he’d say “Do Judo,

Do Judo”, so I went to the Koujimachi (麹町) Police Station. I went at an odd time, and there

wasn’t anybody else beginning just then. They had me do ukemi two or three times, then told

me “You’re no good, go home”… (laughing) It was really frustrating. After that my father

told me to go to the Kodokan (講道館) in Suidobashi and I threw myself into it completely…

After that I started Aikido. Up until that time my range of experience was rather narrow.

When I entered Hombu Dojo there were many different people there from all over the

country. Even among people of the same age there were people whose opinions and way of

thinking about things was different, and it was really interesting. You could say that those

things made me sink into Aikido – of course the techniques are fascinating, but that was also

one reason. Many of those people came from places like the Tempukai.

From “The Legend of Nakamura Tempu” manga, published by the Tempukai

(Kodansha)

The Tempukai and the Ichikukai

Moderator: Was the Tempukai first?

Kobayashi: I went to both the Tempukai and the Ichikukai. Because Tohei sensei was going

to both. Then there was Nishi Shiki. And then Oomoto relations. I went to hear about the

Tempukai and to the Ichikukai around my third year in the university.

Moderator: Did you go to them in order to support your Aikido?

Kobayashi: No, there were many people from the Tempukai, Ichikukai and Nishi Shiki who

would come to train around O-Sensei, and the people from the Tempukai would understand

this part of O-Sensei, the people from Nishi Shiki would understand another, the people from

the Ichikukai would understand the lectures about the Gods, and so forth.

Moderator: Are there some facets of your Aikido that have been influenced by these things?

Winter training with the Ichikukai

Kobayashi: I suppose that there are. Physically, I received a powerful impression from the

Ichikukai. Pushing myself to my limits, learning the extent of endurance, and so forth. The

mental facets have been influenced by the teachings of the Tempukai. They say to keep a

positive spirit. Health is from Nishi Shiki. Even now I use their system of showering.

Nakayama: The Ichikukai was really amazing. You would lose your voice after the practices.

Moderator: Nakayama sensei, did you go too?

Nakayama: I didn’t go. After watching my older brother I really didn’t feel inclined. I did go

to the Tempukai.

Kobayashi: I think that most people from that time went.

Moderator: Tempu sensei was a fascinating individual, wasn’t he?

Kobayashi: He was amazing. However, we didn’t have much time for face to face contact.

Enough for it to sink in… That would be in the evening. Sometimes during the day. And I

also went to the summer training sessions.

Moderator: So those things have continued to live within and enrich you to the current day.

Sensei, was it because you wanted to become strong that you first set your sights on Budo?

Kobayashi: That’s probably true. Running around the Imperial Palace every day…

Nakayama: We really worked hard. Using white belts as a net and carrying stones, making

slides and tying our feet together to work the abdominal muscles, we really trained hard. As if

that were the only skill we had.

Kobayashi: We trained hard, didn’t we?

Moderator: Why don’t you ask for that from the current uchi-deshi?

Kobayashi: It’s okay if they start in their twenties, but when they start around thirty…it’s not

an age for hard conditioning, I guess.

Moderator: (laughing) What about students?

Kobayashi: The students do it.

Moderator: Was there anybody studying Iai?

Kobayashi: There were several people, I think. They wanted to get the hang of using a sword

through Iai.

Moderator: There are deep connections to the Yushinkan (有信館, the Dojo of Hakudo

Nakayama), that connection still continues, doesn’t it? Aikido has a really broad range, and I

think that is sometimes fascinating for people from other Budo.

To Students of Aikido Everywhere

Kobayashi: Hmm, don’t be too strict in defining what Aikido is. People who want to train

hard should train hard, people who want to do flowing training should do that, but don’t do

Judo and call it Aikido. It’s interesting when you go abroad. When you do that the people who

match the region remain as instructors, and the techniques match as well.

Moderator: In the same vein, could we have the woman’s point of view?

Nakayama: I would like women to do more womanly Aikido, that is my current desire.

Moderator: Is that softer or something?

Nakayama: Something like finding severity in the midst of softness.

Moderator: Not as self defense, for Aikido as Aikido.

Nakayama: That’s right. If you do Aikido than you will naturally master the ability for self

defense, so I don’t believe that it’s necessary to separate the two in our thinking. The mental

facets are developed in the midst of doing Aikido, such as being able to manage your

household affairs well… Even now I myself study how to become that kind of a human-being

in the midst of my training.

Kobayashi: So, I don’t think that it is a matter of a human being changing because they do

Aikido, I think that it is through Aikido that you meet many different people as well as

developing relationships with people better than yourself, and that you change through those

experiences. If there is one thing that I alone would like many people to do then that is it.

Moderator: Thank you very much for taking your imporatant time today, in the midst of your

busy schedules, to allow us to to hear this valuable information. We conclude this interview

with our deepest wishes for the future prosperity of Kobayashi Dojo and the Kodaira Aikido

Renmei.

(From “Aiki Kodaira”, published for the 10th anniversary of the Kodaira Aikido Renmei –

October 30th, 1988)

(Transcription by Masakatsu Shinozaki / 文責 篠征勝)