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Transcript: Let the Games Begin: Accessible Games on Your iDevice Hadley Let the Games Begin: Accessible Games on Your iDevice Presented by Judith Dixon Date November 11 th , 2016 Ed Haines Welcome all of you to this afternoon’s Seminar@Hadley. My name is Ed Haines. I’m an instructor at the Hadley School and a member of the Seminars@Hadley Team and as you guys know, today’s seminar is entitled Let the Games Begin: Accessible Games on Your iDevice. I would guess that all of us here this afternoon either currently enjoy gaming apps are eager to learn more about Hadley.edu | 800.323.4238 Page 1 of 44

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Transcript: Let the Games Begin:Accessible Games on Your iDevice

HadleyLet the Games Begin:Accessible Games on Your iDevicePresented by Judith DixonDate November 11th, 2016

Ed Haines Welcome all of you to this afternoon’s Seminar@Hadley. My name is Ed Haines. I’m an instructor at the Hadley School and a member of the Seminars@Hadley Team and as you guys know, today’s seminar is entitled Let the Games Begin: Accessible Games on Your iDevice. I would guess that all of us here this afternoon either currently enjoy gaming apps are eager to learn more about them, but the problem is there are so many choices. It’s hard to know where to begin, and how do you know which ones are better than others so today we are lucky to learn all about the

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latest in word games, card games, adventure games and more, all for the iDevice so please join us today.

Judith DixonJoin Seminars@Hadley as Judith Dixon, Editor of the book Anyone Can Play: Accessible Games for the iPhone, iPad and iPod Touch, shares her insights into accessible gaming. I’m going to now hand the microphone over to Judy.

Judith DixonThank you, Ed and welcome, everyone. This afternoon I’m going to be talking about a book that was published a little bit over a year ago by the National Braille Press called Anyone Can Play: Games for the iPhone, iPad and iPod Touch, and this book is not just by me. It was a joint effort. We had actually I think six authors, and I wrote two of the chapters. I wrote the chapters on card games and on strategy games, and I’ll go through the chapters that are in here in just a second but we have other chapters in here about adventure games and so forth, I know a lot less about those so there are people who knew more about it.

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It’s a one volume in hard copy braille, this book and it’s also available in eBraille and Word downloadable or as a flash drive and Daisy downloadable or as a flash drive, and it costs $12.00 which I can happily tell you because I don’t get any of it so [laughs] I’m not advertising for my book.

Okay, let me tell you about the different chapters in this book because they each contain a number of accessible games, and there’s descriptions on how to use the game so first is competitive games and this chapter actually describes the Game Center, and a few games that could be played through the Game Center and how to do that and this was written by a young woman who works at National Braille Press, Nallym Bravo, and then the next chapter is word games and these are games based on words or letters and they features games that provides clues to either guess the – this is 7 Little Words and [Ordad 0:03:41] and games like that you might have heard of, and it was written by Janet Ingber.

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Card games and these are mostly traditional card games, ranging from several kinds of solitaire to multiplayer games and in the multiplayer games, the game can either simulate an opponent, or you can actually play against real people. In this chapter there’s a number of games from Blindfold Games, Blindfold Solitaire and other Blindfold card games, but there’s other kind of games as well. There’s Cribbage and card games like that, and these are all absolutely 100% accessible and the next chapter is adventure games, and these are games where the player is presented with a scenario and can interact with the world by issuing commands, and this chapter was written by Atty Svendsen who just did a great job.

These are King’s Pass and I have to look and see what the other ones are but they’re a great, great bunch of games in that chapter, Papa Sangre, games like that. The next one is strategy games and for the most part, these are traditional puzzles and board games like Othello. There’s one really cool one that’s one of my favorites in the whole book called CubeAlone, and it’s actually an accessible Rubik’s Cube that you can play on the iPhone and it’s a two by two rubrics cube but it’s

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very cool, and it’s really, really fun to play and the next chapter is – and that chapter I wrote as well, and the next chapter is roleplaying games. There’s no actual games in this but the authors describe how to participate in roleplaying games using email, and then the last chapter is sports games and these are action games.

A lot of these are games where you wave your iPhone around in the air and it’s tennis racket or there’s an archery game, and there’s fantasy games and all kinds of different stuff, and there’s games in here where you can play against an opponent and this chapter was also written by Atty Svendsen so those are the chapters and gosh, I think all of these games are still available if you have been updated. Blindfold Games have a lot more games than are in this book, but it’s still pretty current so why don’t I stop here and I’m happy to take questions.

Ed HainesThe mic is now open if anybody has any questions thus far. Judy, we have a text question from Scott asking what the name of the book is.

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Judith DixonThe name of the book is Anyone Can Play: Accessible Games for the iPhone, iPad and iPod Touch. It’s available from National Braille Press.

Ed HainesAnother listener wants to know if the book is available on BARD.

Judith DixonNo, it is not available on BARD. It’s a book that’s sold by National Braille Press.

Ed HainesWell, we’ve got a quiet audience today, Judy. Why don’t you go ahead?

Judith DixonPerhaps rather than just talking about this book, perhaps if one of you guys has had any experience with playing games on your iPhone, you could tell

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us about a game that you’ve tried and what’s that been like for you.

Caller #1Well, there’s a game that I play most is Blindfold Racer, where you can drive a car just by listening and you just wear headphones and basically, it’s just you have to use your iPhone, and you have to turn the iPhone left and right to play the game and that one has been my favorite. Although there are over 40 Blindfold Games that you can play on iDevices.

Judith DixonThat’s really a terrific game. I’ve played that, too and it’s lots of fun. That game is from part of the other Blindfold Games from Kid Friendly Software, and they are planning a competition that’s going to start – I think it starts September 30th and it will end October 15th. I’m not quite sure how it’s going to go. They haven’t put up all the details. They say they’re going to do it by the end of this week, but if you go to www.blindfoldgames.org, you can read about this competition and how you can participate.

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Caller #1I am a beta tester for that developer and I’ve been beta testing, so I have just registered as well so I’m just wondering how it’s going to go as well.

Caller #2On your games that you could play say with a sighted person?

Judith DixonYes, a lot of the games – well, any of the games in the Game Center you can play with a sighted person. There’s also a fun game. I don’t know if any of you guys may remember the game Battleship. I used to play it when I was a kid, and there’s a game now called Naval Combat that you can play with another person who just happens to be in the room and it’s essentially Battleship. You’ve got five ships and you try to sink each other’s ships, but there’s lots of games that you can play with a sighted person.

Caller #3

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Hello, I have played the Blindfold RS games, and that’s fun because there’s different games in there and it’s based on the computer software and so far I’ve played Toss Up and Uno, and I played Monopoly way back when but I like using it on the iDevices because the gestures are easy to figure out and if I don’t know how to play one of the games, I just can click on, I think it says “view game instructions” and it’ll take me to the webpage that the instructions are on so it’s nice to play those games. Those are ones I like to play a lot with my friends.

Ed HainesClifford asked a question about Cribbage, so he’s not here but perhaps Judy can answer it anyway.

Judith DixonYes, I believe Clifford asked the question how to get started playing Cribbage, and what he’ll need to do is download the Cribbage app. The one that I describe in the book is called Cribbage Pro, and for each of the apps in the book, I include the software developer’s name because one of the problems now with IOS is when you go to download an app,

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there can be dozens of apps with the same name and it’s very difficult to tell which app you actually are getting, and if you’re getting the one you intend to so this one’s from Fuller Systems so when you download this app, if you want to make sure you’re getting an accessible one, make sure you get that one or one that somebody tells you is accessible.

It’s free but the free version will have adds, but it’s only two dollars if you want to get rid of the adds and it’s a game that is for two players and either a single player against the computer or the phone or against another player, and it’s good and it’s a very easy game to play and there are instructions and in the book I tell you a little bit about how to play it but it’s pretty straightforward. You won’t have any trouble figuring it out.

Ed HainesWe have a question about some accessible Solitaire games and wondering if there’s some of those you recommend.

Judith Dixon

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Oh, yeah, this is my addiction. Blindfold Games has something called Blindfold Solitaire, and there are actually 12 games within that one app, 12 different solitaire games and there’s the classic one which is called Klondike Solitaire, and you can even play the Klondike Solitaire where it deals only one card or the Klondike Solitaire where it deals three cards.

I play something called Spider One Suit. There’s Spider Two Suits, Spider Four Suits, FreeCell, Baker’s Game, Seahaven Towers, Golf, Putt-Putt, Double Golf, Double Putt-Putt, Partner Creek, Blackhole, Baroness, 14 Out, Gay Gordon, FreeCell Two Decks, New FreeCell, [laughs] New FreeCell Three FreeCells, New FreeCell Two FreeCells, New FreeCell Easy Shuffle. Oh, gosh, there must be more than 12 here and New FreeCell Card Shuffle, so that’s the solitaire games that are in the Blindfold Solitaire app and it’s really, really fun. I haven’t gotten past Spider. I haven’t even tried most of these but they’re really, really nice.

Caller #4

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Heard of any new games since the book has come out? You said it’s been about a year so that’s my question.

Judith DixonYes, the Blindfold Games have a lot of new games. They have more than 40 games now and all different kinds of games. There’s word games. There’s tile puzzles. There’s physical games, archery and things like that. There’s a lot of different kinds of games, and so that would be a great place to start to look for games because there’s so many different ones and there’s many, many, many of them and they’re very inexpensive.

JaniceHi, this is Janice. I am not familiar with the game playing yet. This is all new for me but I have an interest in chess, checkers and in cards, I like to play – I used to like to play spades, and there are a few other card games that I’m interested in. How would I go about getting these games, and do you have to pay for the game every time you play it?

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Judith DixonBlindfold Games has both checkers and spades. They also have hearts and a lot of other card games. No, you don’t have to pay for the game every time you play it. There’s a pricing structure where you can buy cards, sorry, coins I think they call it, and in some of the games you get one coin per day or something like that. Unfortunately, this keeps changing so it’s a little tricky to keep up with, or you can pay I think it’s three dollars and you have unlimited access to the game so it’s not very expensive, and probably it’s just easiest to go ahead and get the unlimited access.

Janice Thank you so much for that, but I didn’t hear you mention if there’s a chess game available.

Judith DixonThere is a chess and hang on one second. I will be right back and tell you about it.

Ed Haines

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While Judy is doing that, I’ll just read a little bit from Scott who volunteered that his favorite game is called Sixth Sense. It’s a first person’s zombie shooter game. You have to have earphones when you play and even turn off Voiceover because it has its own speech engine built in. It starts you off with lots of weapons, and you get more weapons as you proceed and as you get through the game, the zombies are harder to kill and you need better weapons and Judy, while you’re researching, I also have a question. You mentioned that the Blindfold Games app is about three bucks. I just was wondering if there are other games that are completely free that are available.

Judith DixonYes, many of the games in this book are free. As a matter of fact, a lot of them and this one I’m about to mention is free, but it has what they call in-app purchases and usually that’s to get rid of the – so what I say here for this – this is the chess one. It’s called Chess-wise 3. The free version of this game has an enormous number of features and options, and the in-app purchases add even more but you can have a great time with the free version of this

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game. I didn’t think the in-app purchases were even necessary.

The Chess Wise, the developer is Marcel, M-A-R-C-E-L, last name Nijman, N-I-J-M-A-N and it is a free app. It’s very important to know the publisher’s name because as I mentioned before, it’s very difficult to keep track but this game was fully accessible and worked really well.

Caller #5Is there a game similar to Scrabble?

Judith DixonI have not found one. Perhaps of the audience, if any of you guys have played a game similar to Scrabble. There’s a famous game called Words With Friends a lot of sighted people play, but it’s completely inaccessible unfortunately and I don’t know of a game that’s similar to Scrabble. Anybody else know anything about that?

Cindy

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I don’t know about Scrabble but one game I did want to mention that is not part of the Blindfold Games, this is Cindy by the way, is Trivia Crack, and then they have a new one called Trivia Crack Kingdoms and that is relatively accessible.

I think it’s a little tricky if you need to chat with somebody in the game and that kind of thing, but you get a random player who’s also playing or it’ll connect to your Facebook if you have that or Twitter if you have that and look at your contacts and you can play with your friends, and it’s basically a trivia game and they’ve got I think four or five different categories like science, history, entertainment and I forget some of the others, but you get points for how many questions you get right and then they have what they call Power Ups and that’s where they’re sort of like – I think of them as bonus cards so say you activate one, and you might get an extra 30 seconds to answer a question or something like that so Trivia Crack. That’s that game and it’s one that I get addicted to with my friends because I like trivia games, so I just thought I would mention that one.

Ed Haines

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I like trivia as well, Cindy, so thank you for that contribution. Judy, Ann is asking if there’s any games for practicing braille contractions. That’s a fantastic question. Particularly now I’m wondering is there any new games that encompass the new changes with the UEB Transition.

Judith DixonWell, I hate to keep mentioning Blindfold Games because I certainly don’t work for them, but they are about to come out with a game that’s [laughs] intense using to practice braille contractions, and it’s called Braille Spin and Solve and it’s kind of like a – oh, what’s that game that was on TV with Vanna White. I can’t remember the name. [laughs] Oh, gosh, well, somebody will know it. Tell me what it is. Wheel of Fortune. It’s a Wheel of Fortune type game but it’s to test braille contractions, and I don’t believe that it’s in the App Store yet but I think it will be just in the next week or two.

The game Trivia Crack is also described in the book. It’s in the Game Center games because it’s one of the games that you can play. You get a

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random opponent or whatever. A game that I enjoy that’s actually not in the book, it’s called Hanging with Friends and it’s not 100% accessible which is why I didn’t include it, but it’s definitely playable and you can play that against a random opponent or you can play against your friends, and it’s basically a Hangman game and it’s nice.

Caller #6One game I like to play is called Audio Archery, and you have to turn Voiceover off because it has its own speech engine and you drag your finger down to pull the bow string back, and you listen to an arrow going from ear to ear, left ear to right ear, and when the sound of the arrow goes to about the middle of ear to ear, to about your nose, you lift your finger off the screen and try for a bullseye. You could either get the center ring. That’s one point. The second ring, that’s two points or bullseye, that’s five points and that’s addictive.

JaniceHi, this is Janice. Thanks, Judy for that information on the chess game. One other question I have is, is there a Bible trivia game?

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Judith DixonI’m not familiar with one but I think if you did a search in the App Store under Bible. I would also suggest using the word “biblical trivia”. I think you probably could find one. There may not be so many that you could go through them and it’s likely to be accessible.Caller #7Are there any sports games that you would recommend?

Judith DixonWell, in the book that we’re discussing in this seminar, Anyone Can Play, there’s a whole chapter on sports games. Some of them are games that you actually do the sport. As the gentleman was describing earlier, accessible archery is in here. There’s also a tennis game where you can throw your phone around, [laughs] not exactly but you can definitely wave your phone around. Let’s put it that way and play.

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There’s a ping pong game that you also can wave your phone around. Sonic Tennis is what the tennis game is called, and there’s something called I, Samurai which is another one that you actually do things, and then there’s other ones where you don’t actually do the sport but that kind of cross between adventure games and sports games. There’s something called Audio Defense: Zombie Arena. I have not played most of the sports games, so I can’t tell you firsthand what that’s like and then there’s another one called Blink Pong, and Blindfold Racers described in here, too so there’s lots of these kinds of games.

Caller #7Okay, thank you. I don’t think that you could really use an iPad while you’re playing those games. You’d have to use iPhone or iPod Touch.

Judith DixonI think that’s true. I think it would be difficult to do it with an iPad.

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Ed HainesJudy, this is Ed. Are there any language learning games, well, some of the common languages, like French or Spanish, German, Italian, etcetera, some of the common European languages or Mandarin or Hindi?

Judith DixonThere probably are. I’m not familiar with any but it’s a great idea, and you could probably search in the App Store and probably find something like that.

Emmett I kind of know this app which is called I think Duolingo or something like that, where it teaches you how to speak French or something but I’ve never tried it, but my friend said it is accessible but I’ve not tried it.

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Ed HainesOh, thank you for that, Emmett. I’m a little familiar with Duolingo so that’s good to know it’s accessible and I have not tried it, but I know sighted people who have and it actually has tutorials or games for a lot of different languages so if it’s accessible, that’s fantastic.

Judith DixonOh, thank you for that. That’s really good to know. Back on the subject of trivia, there’s also a trivia game that you can play by yourself for the people who like trivia called Quizoid, Q-U-I-Z-O-I-D and you answer questions and then once you get enough right, it unlocks more levels and that’s a game that is not in the book, but it’s one that is also very accessible.

Ed HainesWe have another question about education. Ann wants to know of any accessible coding games for elementary or middle school age students.

Judith Dixon

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Gosh, great question. I don’t know of any.

Ed HainesThen Deborah would like to know are the Blindfold Games only for the iPhone? I’m assuming she’s wondering if they’ll work for an iPad for instance or perhaps a Mac.Judith DixonThey will work on an iPad or an iPod Touch. I don’t know if they would work on a Mac. I think not but I would probably want to check their website to be sure of that.

Ed HainesJudy, I was reading through the questions again to make sure I didn’t miss anything and in fact, I did. One individual wanted to know what is the Game Center we talked about, of things being available on the Game Center? Can you give a little more explanation about what that is?

Judith Dixon

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Okay, Game Center is one of those things that’s built into the phone. There’s some apps that are already there when you get your phone or your iPad or whatever, and Game Center is one that’s already there. It’s called Game Center and when you first run the Game Center, you’re prompted to create an account, and it will give you a user name. It’ll be something like Judy457 or something like that, and then once you’re registered in the Game Center, the apps that have what I call in the book Game Center Integration, will let you play against other people.

It’s kind of a social networking thing, and it will let you play against strangers. It will let you play against other people. You and a friend can go into the Game Center and choose to play against each other or you can do it from within the apps, and it’s a little complicated so it takes a little practice but it’s all accessible so there’s no problem about that, but once you get your account created and you have to put in your Apple ID and so forth but once you get it all set up, it’s not too hard to do.

Ed Haines

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All right, we have Ann asking about games for a Bluetooth Switch user, and I’m hoping you’ll know what that is because I don’t.

Judith DixonActually, I don’t either.

Ed HainesHi, Ann. I wonder if you could further define what you mean by Bluetooth Switch user. Oh, okay, it just was a mistyping. It is a Bluetooth Switch from AbleNet that my students use to access apps on the iPad, so she wants to know about games for a Bluetooth Switch from AbleNet that her students use to access apps.

Judith DixonThat is not something that I’m familiar with so again, Google it or search on the App Store.

JaniceHi, Judy, this is Janice again. I would like to know who is the maker of the Battleship game you

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mentioned earlier because I used to love to play Battleship when I was sighted, and so which Battleship game would I download or once I learn how to do this, which one should I choose?

Judith DixonI’m realizing now one of the things we should have done is put an index in this book because I have to flip through to find that game, but I at least know which chapter it’s in so that’ll help but here it is, Naval Combat. The developer is Jonas, J-O-N-A-S, Ackhardt, A-C-K-H-A-R-D-T. Actually, there’s a whole bunch of other names, too but Tobias Muehlbauer and Wolf Roediger, R-O-E-D-I-G-E-R, so if you find those guys and it’s 99 cents for this game and it is really quite fun. It was a great game.

I also wanted to mention another game. There’s two versions of Sudoku available from Blindfold Games, and there’s a traditional Sudoku which is the nine by nine. For those not familiar with Sudoku, it’s very, very popular in print newspapers and things like that, but it’s a Japanese game where you have a grid of nine by nine and a few

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numbers are filled in but not too many, and it depends on whether you pick an easy, a medium or a hard one. If you pick a hard, not very many numbers are filled in at all but if you pick easy, you get more already filled in ones, but the goal of the game is to get the digits one through nine in every column, in every row and in every square which is the little three by three parts of the larger nine by nine grid, and Kid Friendly software Blindfold Games also have a Sudoku Mini which is a four by four Sudoku and it’s really fun.

It’s especially fun for really young children because you can have it be animal names or even animal sounds. There’s a frog and a cow and a dog and a horse, but you play the game in a similar way so you pick the – you still have to get – every row has to have one of each animal in it, but it’s only four by four but it’s also, if you’ve never played Sudoku it’s a good way to start before you progress to the nine by nine, but I love Sudoku so I was so thrilled with this game.

Ed Haines

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All right, Judy, we have a couple other comments. Scott has a question, wondering if you know of any other names like A Blind – any games like A Blind Legend. That’s not one I’ve heard of and Cindy just wants us to make sure we mention www.applevis.com, and that’s a very good informational site on all things Apple-related for persons with low vision and blindness.

Judith DixonNo, I haven’t heard of that game either and yes, Apple is a great resource and especially to find out about things that you might already know something about to see if it’s accessible or so forth, but it’s also good for the person looking for things like Bluetooth Switch. You could just search that on AppleVis and there’s probably been some conversation because there are blogs and people communicating about things, as well as there are hundreds and hundreds of apps with comments from blind people who have tried them, and they put the apps that don’t work, as well as ones that do so it is a great resource.

Ed Haines

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In fact I’m looking at the site right now, and there’s an article called Some Thoughts on the Current State of IOS Audio Games and then there’s another article further down called Adding Friends to Game Center, so obviously, there’s a lot of interest here about games on this site. It looks very useful so thank you, Cindy. Judy, Jordan is asking what was the Rubik’s Cube game that was mentioned earlier? Maybe if you can give the name of the game and the creator of the game that would be a help.

Judith DixonI’m looking it up now. Gosh, this book needs an index. Okay, the game is called CubeAlone, and the developer, the first name is Iiro, I-I-R-O and there are two I’s, so it’s I-I-R-O and the last name, I’m not going to try to pronounce it. It looks Finnish to me. I suspect it’s Finnish, V-I-I-T-A-N-E-N.

The good news is there’s probably not going to be a whole lot of CubeAlone games. It’s all one word. It’s 99 cents and as I was saying, it’s a two by two Rubik’s Cube and you swipe up with three fingers if

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you want to rotate the whole thing up, or you can actually set it so that you’re only rotating half of it or you can swipe left with three fingers to make it go left and right, and it’s really quite fun to play or you can turn on hints so it’ll actually give you some hints about which way you need to turn it.

JordanOkay, thank you.

JaniceHi, this is Janice. Can these games be played on a desktop computer, and what is the name of the language game you mentioned and the developer of that game?

Judith DixonNo, I would think that most of these games would not be playable on a desktop computer and someone else mentioned, was it Duolingo. Perhaps Ed can tell us more about that.

Ed Haines

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Hi, Janice. The game is called Duolingo and that’s spelled D-U-O-L-I-N-G-O and I believe it’s the only one on the App Store. I’m trying to look real quickly. I think there’s a nominal fee for that or it might be totally free, but I do know they have lots of languages.

CindyI just got that one myself a few weeks ago and that one’s fun. I tried it with Spanish and you choose your level, and then it’s got a list of the words that will be covered in that unit and it is accessible but I haven’t quite figured out how to use it entirely yet, so you kind of have to fiddle around with it I think for the beginner to Apple games and that kind of thing, I wouldn’t recommend it but if you’re trying to learn another language, I think it’d be fun to play with. You can get the meanings of words and it’s got little chimes. Whenever you get something correct it chimes so I like those kinds of games where you get audible feedback.

Ed HainesWell, thank you so much, Cindy. That’s a huge help. We are actually coming to the end of our

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time. We have a few minutes more so if anyone has any further questions.

Nancy Could you tell us again what format the book is available in?Ed HainesJudy, Nancy was coming in faint, but she wants to know what format the book is available in.

Judith DixonThe book is available in hardcopy braille and it’s available in electronic braille. It’s a BRF file either on a USB flash drive or by download. It’s available in Daisy. That’s an audio but it’s audio that’s read by a synthetic voice that’s in download or on a flash drive, and it’s available in Word also on a flash drive or by download.

Ed HainesOkay, folks, do we have any further questions?

Janice

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This is Janice. No, I don’t have any questions but a comment. I would like to say thank you all for hosting this seminar. I really enjoyed it. Great host, Judy and Ed.

Ed HainesWell, thank you so much, Janice. That’s very kind and I’m glad you found it worthwhile. Anyone else with a final comment or question? Okay, hearing none, I’m going to just do some final comments myself. This seminar will be archived on www.hadley.edu and the recordings are available 24/7, and of course each of our popular seminars at Hadley is now available as a podcast so you can download it and listen to it on your computer or a mobile device.

For those of you on Twitter, Hadley’s Twitter hashtag is Seminars@Hadley and thanks everyone for participating today. We do value your feedback, so please let us know what you thought of this seminar and please suggest future seminar topics by sending an email to [email protected] and please by completing this short survey that I’ll be launching today. I’m

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just going to hand the microphone back to Judy briefly for a final farewell, and then I’ll have a few more comments.

Judith DixonThanks very much, Ed and I sure appreciate all the contributions and the suggestions about games. I certainly learned some things today, and I really appreciate everyone’s participation. Thanks much.

Ed HainesJudy, thank you so much for your time and as she said, thanks everyone for participating. We had some really good suggestions and I learned a lot as well. Thanks again to everyone for participating.

[End of Audio – 0:40:55]

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