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The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Military Science > R ifles and Shotguns

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Remington 7600 pump rifle and lever action shotgun. (10 replies)1.AR variants Solidworks Models (1 replies)2..308 Savage FP10 (8 replies)3.Remington 870 Shotgun (6 replies)4..32 NAA carbine? (10 replies)5.What is the best surplus sniper rifle? (56 replies)6.The Ultimate Sniper Rifle (62 replies)7.M1 Garand and M1 Carbine - Archive File (6 replies)8.My .50BMG Experience (21 replies)9.50 BMG (44 replies)10.


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The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Military Science > Rifles and Shotguns > 50 BMG

View Full Version : 50 BMG

December 13th, 2001, 04:03 PMFingerless

I'm putting aside cash until I get enough scratch to get a truly amazing firearm-the 50 BMG. I've always wanted one and wantto make sure to get one on case actions are took to ban them. I figure I've got 5 years to save. I don't thinka ban willhappen in Bush's time. So I have a while to save, but would like to stay in the $5,000 range. The only rifle I'm familiar with isthe one I've seen made by Desert Arms. If anyone has shot one or looked at them I'd appreciate any insights, also on loads/bullets. I was thinking I could machine effective bullets for cheaper than they are available. (About a buck or more, I think)Just give me your thoughts and which ones I should check out. It will have to be ordered no doubt, I have yet to see one in alocal gunshop http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gifThanks

December 14th, 2001, 05:23 AMnbk2000

I saw a barrett .50 at a gun shop once. They had it sitting (unchained http://assaultweb.net/ubb/icons/icon25.gif ) on theglass display case. The fucker was HUGE!

Imagine lifting 3 sacks of potatos at the same time. Then make it 4 feet long.

5+1 rounds of .50 goodness. http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

Oh, and a $7,000 http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif price tag.

Boy, talk about serious temptation for snatch and dash!

And you're not the only one looking at these....

The cross-pollination between Army's Delta and the FBI's HRT has resulted in other activities that the academy sourcedescribed as "scary." One such development is the HRT's training for the possible use of the Barrett .50- caliber rifle againstsuspects.

"One HRT operator told me they could use Barretts against people... to shoot someone hiding behind something. I pointedout that if a person was hiding behind something, the shooter could not positively identify the target. "The HRT's training withBarretts was confirmed by the Army Special Forces source who had worked at Quantico. Furthermore, he said he had observedHRT snipers using Barretts to train to shoot people with Norwegian Raufus armor-piercing, incendiary, high-explosiveammunition (API HE) at ranges as close as 500 meters - for all intents and purposes, point blank. (By comparison, the Barrettis routinely used to destroy enemy equipment out to 1,800 meters. This is in contrast to conventional FBI SWAT teams, using.308-caliber rounds on 300-meter targets.)

From http://www.cybernaute.com/earthconcert2000/Militfbi.htm

Seems the FBI isn't happy with just automatic rifles. Seems they know want .50 rifles for blasting those pesky people whorefuse to stand still to allow the FBI sniper a clean shot at them.

Now we're forcing them to have to work at hitting us through walls, cars, and even whole houses.

All the more reason for building revetments and berms around your house. Never know when those pesky .50 bullets will comewizzing by.

What's next, Quad Fifties? Mini-Guns? Vulcan Cannons? http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

------------------"I have begun evil, I shall end evil. That is the end that awaits me."

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2k) to download the NBK2000 files and videos.

December 14th, 2001, 10:41 PMphyrelord

You can order some pretty cheap single shots. One of the latest issues of guns and ammo had some .50 bmgs the serbu isthe cheapest, lightest, but has the most recoil it's only 2000 but you are put on a waiting list go to www.serbu.com (http://www.serbu.com) for the bfg. Other sites with fifty cals is www.statearms.com, (http://www.statearms.com,) www.barrettrifles.com,(http://www.barrettrifles.com,) and www.armalite.com. (http://www.armalite.com.)these are all coming out of the guns and ammo mag. The guy that tested them says they are great as long as you don't holdyour mouth open, after a few rounds your teeth hurt from the shockwaves. I plan on buying a serbu soon

[This message has been edited by phyrelord (edited December 14, 2001).]

December 15th, 2001, 02:37 AMMacCleod

If you have an AR-15,check out the Ferret 50-it's a 50 cal. upper that fits on an AR lower.http://ferret50.com/Price is $1500 through the website,or $1330 if purchased through 37mm.com.


Maddi Griffin http://www.maadigriffin.com/ does offer a kit for $125 to build a single shot .50 for under $500.

http://www.maadigriffin.com/model92.jpg

You'll need a 36" lathe, milling machine, and TIG welder though.

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Start buying the ammo now! Because they realize that a gun without bullets is just a club. They've already stopped alltransfers of military surplus .50 ammo. So eventually there won't be anymore available.

Don't bother with the plain ball ammo. Get the API (Armor Piercing Incendiary) or APIT (API Tracer) since that'll be the first torun out.




They used to sell 'almost finished' rifles too,'till the fed's came in and confiscated them (no serial #'s!).Can't wait for moreinfo on the MG-6!.

------------------"That which does not kill us,makes us stronger"

December 15th, 2001, 09:33 AMFingerless

NBK, that kit is interesting! Due to the extremely low cost I might just have to make one, I'll update you guys if I decide to doit. I already have a lathe, milling machine, and a TIG welder-lucky me http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gifI've been looking around for API ammo, but all I can find is your run of the mill soft lead and copper bullets. Where can I getAPI's or incendiarys?

December 15th, 2001, 09:44 AMFingerless

Well, I just got done looking at the sight for that kit and found out that thanks to the assholes at the BATF I won't beassembling my very own 50 BMG anytime soon, it appears.I was all hyped up that I would be able to afford something asmagnificent as a 50 BMG! Hopefully the feds will slacken and they can sell them again.....Damn I'm pissed now.If anyone has any info on why they can't sell anymore or when they will be able to re sell I'd appreciate it. I'm in the processof e-mailing them now.

December 15th, 2001, 12:12 PMHMTD Factory

Completely Outrageous Story! my moral wentdown 200 points.

Here's why they are outta business now.

http://www.gunnery.net/news/batf-raids-maadi-griffin.html

Read how the two agents framed Steward by asking him to "tighten the scope" on an AR-15, then pulled out the badge?Outrageous.

There's no use registering guns neither, whenthey want to get you, they will "FIND" an un-registered gun in your home.


Well the first day hearing relieved me alittle.

http://www.gunnery.net/news/BATF-Stewart.html

As to ways to get a decent .50BMG, without registering a new receiver, or staggering cost, AR-15 upper is probably the way togo, like MacCleod pointed. (There isa company that makes grenade launcher style.50BMG that mounts under AR-15, but the gun need registering, and the company does not have a website)

Home-build a .50BMG from scratch is a gunsmith work not even every gunsmith has experience with. That's why when I hearsomeone said he wants to build a .50BMG, Iflinch a little. (Sometime ago a newbie guy asked if he can build a .50BMG from a 12Ga shotgun action, the question sent meskyward)

I wouldn't recommend lathe turned bullets to save cost, lead is too soft for that pressure, copper is too hard for some loads.If you want to save, there are pulled bulletsfrom military surplus, and they too come in AP, APIT, etc.

December 15th, 2001, 04:53 PMnbk2000

The maadi griffin site STILL sells a book for $125 that tells you how to build it yourself for

December 15th, 2001, 07:06 PMFingerless

NBK, thanks, I had a copy of the shotgun news and located some bullets.I saw the book but I think I would have trouble making the barrel and receiver. However, I could do a reasonable amount anddon't think assembling the kit would be that bad.I read the article about him HMTD, it pissed me off even more. Especially the part about the Redhawk pistol that they "found"in his bedroom. Argh.NBK, I saw that mile a minute sabot for the 50-WOW!

December 15th, 2001, 07:46 PMBoB-

You would have to drill the barell, and chamber with a drill press from stock metal rod, and because the steel is "common" andnot really designed for this you would have to leave the walls of the barell really thick. A homemade .50 would be less like arifle, and more like a cannon.

the finished "rifle" would probably weigh over 100 pounds.

The plans probably call for a commericially made barell.

------------------Teamwork is essential.It lets you blame someone else.


Yeah,most of the builder's plans use a purchased surplus barrel.I dug out an old copy of the Shotgun News-The maadi-griffinbuilder's kit (with all finished parts) was $1999,and the non-ffl kit (unfinished reciever) was $1824.It had a template bondedon the reciever,showing were the cuts were to be made,which he claimed could be done with a drill and a dremel tool.Evencame with instructions on how to do the headspacing.Not surprised that the fed's found a way to bust him,though.I spoke to the guy once about the kits (back in Dec. 99),and hespoke rather adamantly about refusing to cooperate with any future gun laws,as he felt they were all unconstitutional.There's a site called the Football web page-http://fiftycaliber.i8.com/That sells plans for a falling block type 50 cal. for $50.Not a bad looking weapon,for the price.HMTD-do you know if that company ever finished,shipped any of those lowers?.I called about those also,and you had to pre-pay for them-the guy said they needed the money to finish making the 1st. batch of rifles.

------------------"That which does not kill us,makes us stronger"


That Johnny .50 is one scary mutha. You see his spelling?!

LOOK OUT! REDNECKS GOT A GUN!! http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/wink.gif

Also, I didn't see any extractor. How are you supposed to get the spent shell out, poke it out with a stick down the barrel?

Anyways, I found this thread at TFL.http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=92779

=============================================

Cops can't find super gun

William Kaempffer, Register staff December 13, 2001

NEW HAVEN The Westville man who allegedly stockpiled as sault weapons, bullets and hand gren ades at his parents' ho mehad purchased a banned .50-caliber sniper rifle in May from a Seymour pawn shop, state police said.However, the weapon has not been found, and police won't say whether Charles Cornelius, a 31-year-old laborer, had plans forthe big gun.

On Wednesday, a Superior Court judge increased bail on Cornelius, of 851 Forest Road, to $2.6 million cash, as policeprepared another arrest warrant in connection with the powerful rifle.

A warrant already had been signed by a judge in Superior Court in Derby, said state police Sgt. J. Paul Vance.

Meanwhile, police still were searching for the weapon, a Barrett 82-A1, described as a long-range sniper rifle that can fire armorpiercing and incendiary rounds up to 2,000 yards.

According to the Barrett Firearms Web site, the weapon, with a carrying case, costs $7,300. The scope is sold separately.Barrett is located in Murfreesboro, Tenn.

During a demonstration for Congress some time ago, a Marine sniper blasted through a manhole cover with the .50-caliberround.

"That's the big one," said Tom Diaz, who authored a study on the sale of sniper rifles for the Violence Policy Center inWashington, D.C. "That's the one the Marine Corps is using right now in Afghanistan and the special forces used in the PersianGulf War. It's pretty scary."

More than a decade ago, the U.S. government sent 25 high-powered Barrett sniper rifles to a group of Muslim fighters thatincluded Osama bin Laden.

Here, it is illegal for civilians to possess the weapon, police said.

"The only people who can legally possess it in Connecticut are police officers and the military," said Vance, the state policespokesman.


http://fiftycaliber.i8.com/http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/wink.gifhttp://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=92779

However, according to state Rep. Michael P. Lawlor, D-East Haven, semi-automatic .50-caliber sniper rifles still can bepurchased legally in the state and only an automatic version is outlawed. Lawlor said he plans to advance legislation next yearthat would regulate the weapons.

State police were specifically searching for the gun Tuesday when they executed a search-and-seizure warrant at 851 ForestRoad, where Cornelius lived with his parents. Authorities didn't find it but did recover a cache of assault rifles, hundreds ofrounds of ammunition and volumes of hate literature. The literature included manuscripts from Matt Hale's Church of theCreator, a white supremacist group that has held rallies in Wallingford.

Vance said police had no evidence that Cornelius had planned any attack with the weapons.

But it has become clear that he had a caustic animosity toward Hopkins School, an exclusive, private institution that neighborssaid expelled Cornelius in the 1980s. The sprawling, wooded campus is across the street from the Cornelius home.

Cornelius attended the school from 1982 to 1987 and law enforcement and neighbors confirmed that he held a longstandinggrudge. He allegedly planned to send hateful, anti-Semitic letters to a batch of alumni, sources said. It wasn't immediatelyclear if any letters had been sent before police arrested him Tuesday.

"Guys like this shouldn't have any guns, let alone any gun that would you allow to shoot at an armored limousine a mileaway," Lawlor said. "These are the kind of people we're worried about."

Officials with the state police Special Licensing and Firearms Unit believe that Cornelius bought the sniper rifle in May 2001after he stole the identity of a dead Pennsylvania resident. Under the name of Jason E. Johnson, Cornelius obtained birthcertificates, a driver's license, Social Security card and firearms permits to complete the purchase of the gun from the SeymourPawn Shop. The gun was illegally imported by the pawn shop from a Nevada gun dealer and turned over to Cornelius, policesaid.

According to Diaz, during the Gulf War, the gun took out Iraqi armored personnel carriers at a range of 1,800 yards. At leastone of the rifles was found at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas.

"This isn't a question of gun control," Diaz said. "It's a question of national security."

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?...t_id=7573&rfi=6

=============================================

Better hope the cops never arrest you and find out you have a .50. You'll NEVER make the bail.

Convict: What you in here for?

You: Shoplifting some batteries.

Convict: Why haven't you bailed out?

You: It's $2.6 million, cash.

Convict: ?! http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif

That'd make for interesting conversation, huh? http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif




MacCleod: If you are referring to the "grenade launcher style" .50 attachment for AR-15, I don't know if they are alreadymaking them or selling them. I have never called them or e-mailed them.

The ad has "patend pending" printed next to the half-page size conceptual drawing. Not likely a scam(since it's a pretty gooddesign)

If they have trouble starting their first batch of product it's their problem. Don't send your money yet, I know I wouldn't.

The problem with small business like that is-- they can't get a grant from the government when they don't have equipments.(If they start a business building .50BMG guns using government money, it is funny. It's funnier when the government try toput them out of business later.)


I remember there's a company that sells a model of cheaper .50, using "lock into the barrel" design concept. It does notrequire a conventional receiver : There's locking lugs and recess milled into the barrel, so a short bolt locks its lugs into thebarrel directly, loading and ejecting is direct at the breech area. (The gun is a "lock into the barrel" + "breech plug" design)

A similiar rifle can be build with modified .50 barrel blank and a homemade bolt, plus a firing mechanism. A firearm savvyperson can build a safe working one under 400$ I think. The question is : Will someone lend you a .50BMG chamber reamer?

December 16th, 2001, 02:21 PMMacCleod

Yeah,that's the one;I talked to them when I first saw the shotgun news ad probably a year,year and a half ago.I hope theyget them done before too much longer (if not done already),as the anti-gunners are trying to attach more gun restrictions toany new anti-terror bills that will be up for vote in Jan.,and it's a safe bet they'll focus on 50's.Wouldn't mind getting one ofthose under-barrel jobs myself!.

------------------


http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?...t_id=7573&rfi=6http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gifhttp://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

"That which does not kill us,makes us stronger"

November 15th, 2003, 01:32 AMTRUTHSEEKER

List of vendors for .50 BMG arms and assecories (includes some barrel mfg's)

http://www.fcsa.org/vendors.html

November 15th, 2003, 02:46 PMMP5Guy

The AR-50's made by ArmaLite are redily available both used and new. Checkout GunBroker.com or GunsAmerica.com . Pricedunder $2500.00 alota umph for the buck. www.kieslersonline.com usually has .50 BMG surplus ammo made in the 80's for$119.00 per 100 linked in 50 cal ammo cans. This is not a weapon your going to fire or want to fire 100 Rds. on a days outing;)

November 17th, 2003, 09:55 PMSpartin13

The plans offered for the Maadi-Griffin 50 BMG are very well written. You can make one with 36" lathe if you intend on turningdown a surplus barrel. A smaller lathe is fine if you order a barrel all ready turned for the Maadi- Griffin from MontanaRifleman it sells for less than $300.00. Instead of a mill you can get by with a mill/vise attachment for your lathe made byPlagram. Shot money. As far as a welder you can get by with a mig or arch if you have too. Heat treating reciever,trigger parts,bolt and firing pin are less that $70.00 including the 4140 steel all parts should be under $500.00 total time if you know howto work steel and buy the barrel should be under 100 hours. If you want to learn more about the 50 go to the Biggerhammer/barret.net site (I hope I'm not breaking any rules by giving this site out. If so I'm sorry) There are many good people on thatsite that know their stuff about 50's. Currently if you have an Ar lower I beleive that there are 3-5 uppers that are well madeand under $1500.00. Again if you want a very well made 50 that is very accurate for under $2000.00 the by all means theSerbru. I believe he has a few in stock now. He also makes a carbin modle that is under 20 lbs that is very accuate. If yo wanta heaver 50 that is well made and accuate in the $2000.00-$2500.00 range then go to State Arms or Armilight both goodshooters I hope this helps

November 25th, 2003, 05:07 AMDropNazi

Any rifle in .50 BMG is an awesome rifle. The ar-15 replacement upper scares me because 2 little steel pins hold it to analuminum reciever... its designed for the recoil of .223 not .50 bmg. I've fired a M2HB full auto and its amazing . If you wantthis gun so bad just kidnap some army guys family and hold them for ransome till you get your gun....jk floating around theinternet is a shot video of a .50 bmg single shot handgun... The brownells catalog # 56 pg.35 has a .50 bmg throating reamerthey might have a thick enough barrel blank too....

December 17th, 2003, 12:37 AMmajes

Who makes a .50 BMG upper for an AR? All the .50 uppers I've seen for ARs are .50 Beowulf, not BMG. There is a bigdifference. The Beowulf isn't near as long as a BMG. The round doesn't have near the velocity.

December 17th, 2003, 11:38 AMDave the Rave

I've uploaded a Ragnar Benson's homemade .50 bmg to the FTP. I haven't any experience on building a gun THAT big, but ,as far as i know, it looks quite simple to build.

December 18th, 2003, 02:31 PMThird_Rail

Has anyone seen any Raufoss .50 bullets kicking around for reloading with? Or maye the complete rounds? I've beensearching high and low for those and for SLAP rounds...

They'd make my upcoming Barrett M99-1 ever so much more fun.

December 22nd, 2003, 12:31 AMxyz

I have seen a place that sells raufoss and slap bullets (not assembled ammunition) but IIRC they were damn expensive andI can't rmember where it was that sold them.

December 29th, 2003, 02:10 AMMike76251

You can find the .50 cal AP and sometimes the API bullets at a good gun show. They will sometimes have slight pull marksbut this doesn't really hurt anything for plinking.A Google search shoud turn up a few suppliers.

December 30th, 2003, 03:58 AMSMAG 12B/E5

I purchased a set of Maadi-Griffith plans when they were $125. The steel should cost $100 or less, depending of sourcing. Theweapon appears to be no problem to fabricate. Consider jobbing out the components to several competent machinists hungryfor work. Begin purchasing your ammo and ammo components now. Powder, brass, projos and dies are available from severalsources.One of the most appealing aspects of owning a weapon of the 50 BMG caliber is the many different types of ammomanufactured for this weapon.

December 30th, 2003, 06:54 PM12Gauge

Who makes a .50 BMG upper for an AR?Ferret is one company that makes .50BMG uppers for the AR-15 and AR-10 lower receivers.http://ferret50.com/The one they show on the page is using a special "single shot lower receiver" that doesn't accept a magazine.


http://www.fcsa.org/vendors.htmlhttp://ferret50.com/

The ar-15 replacement upper scares me because 2 little steel pins hold it to an aluminum reciever... its designed for the recoilof .223 not .50 bmg.The lower receivers of the AR-15 and AR-10 series rifles don't need to be overly strong (that's why they are made ofaluminum) as all the pressure/force of the round is contained in the upper receiver. The lower receiver simply holds the firecontrol parts, allows a pistol grip to be attached, and serves as a place for the magazine to go. Calvary Arms actually makes acompletely plastic AR-15 lower receiver. http://www.cavalryarms.com/

March 8th, 2004, 06:13 PMMightyQuinn®

Check out the web site. It's not fancy but there are some cool videos there..

http://50caliber.net/video/bobbarrett.wmv

http://50caliber.net

http://50caliber.net/video

I would be happy to give input on a particular rifle if you have one in mind.

March 8th, 2004, 08:34 PMzaibatsu

That's a nice site man. It really makes you realise just how stupidly big these are when you compare the size of the grips(which are relatively standard on all rifles) to the action. Btw the easiest way to complete a .50 BMG seems to me to becompleting an 80% AR lower and a .50BMG top, which aren't registered.

March 8th, 2004, 11:28 PMMP5Guy

www.wideners.com They have all the .50 BMG components you'll need.

MP

March 23rd, 2004, 11:04 PMCyclo_Knight

While on the subject of snpier rifles:

I co-wrote a govt. grant for CheyTac's new .408 round, and I was fortunate enough to be invited to their Idaho provinggrounds. I shot off 4 rounds from their new Intervention rifle(now the m200) and I would say that the recoil rivaled even thatof the .50. However at ranges above 1000m, the KE of the .408 was MORE powerful than the standard .50 fired from a similarrifle.

In addition, the ACCURACY was the most amazing thing that i've ever seen. Their sniper put a 4-inch grouping at 3000 Yds.and said that he was SHAKY that day. Apparently in their controlled tests, the bullet is so stable it will form a 3-inch groupinguntil it goes below mach at nearly 5000 Yds. ! :eek:

I actually HAD their Intervention rifle in my basement when I was writing the grants, and it was the most beautiful thing i'veever held. I was toying with it in my backyard and I almost came when I worked the action!

Its a shame they didn't provide any ammunition ;)

EDIT: heres the press release for the .408 roundhttp://www.cheytac.com/Data/PressReleases/pressrelease.pdf

I will scan in and post the patent and the full grant later this week for any who would like to see it.

April 21st, 2004, 02:17 PMteshilo

I have idea about smooth -b ored rifle 0.50 Im rea d, what Steir Manlich er firm designed AMR(anti-material rifle ) with smooth-bored barrel 1100mm length, caliber 15.2mm and slapped sub caliber arrow bullet 6,2mm diameter and metal-plastic shell.Issue many manual about construction 0.50 sniper rifle-one small problem- barrels Obtain it from E-bay or local gun suppliersmay be unavailable Maybe used smooth-bored barrel for accuracy, with poor man dart shot- slapped tungsten or hard steeldrill with silver soldered fins and glued smokeless powder charge with electric or percussion igniter Smooth barrel this-only tubeThis system cheap , available and ready obtainable then system based on surplus gun barrels

April 21st, 2004, 02:46 PMaikon

I have idea about smooth -b ored rifle 0.50 Im rea d, what Steir Manlich er firm designed AMR(anti-material rifle ) with smooth-bored barrel 1100mm length, caliber 15.2mm...

Where did you read that? I'm very interested in steyr mannlicher products, but I haven't heard from that invention before. Thisaustrian factory produces great weapons.

April 21st, 2004, 05:19 PMSergejVictorov

Check out the following link: www.steyr-aug.com/amr.htm

In fact it's not a new invention but it was developed in the mid-1980s.

Being almost 6 feet long this rifle is more like a cannon and not very practical. I read somewhere it would require at least twopersons to be operated efficiently. Though I think the energy delivered by this bullet is much higher than a .50BMG.

At 1450 m/s the kinetic energy would be 15500 foot pounds (21000 joules) whereas a 550grs .50BMG round at 900 m/susually has around 10300 foot pounds (14000 joules) of energy.


http://www.cavalryarms.com/http://50caliber.net/video/bobbarrett.wmvhttp://50caliber.nethttp://50caliber.net/videohttp://www.cheytac.com/Data/PressReleases/pressrelease.pdf

April 22nd, 2004, 12:17 AMJoeJablomy

Teshilo, you can get barrels for the Vulcan, GAU-8, and even Bofors 40mm L60, but they're all rifled. For a smoothboredbarrel, you basically need a piece of high pressure pipe. Suitable thick walled stainless with a good bore finish might beavailable as lab or industrial equipment.Smoothbore barrels are not more accurate unless you have really good finned projectile.Silver-soldering fins onto a piece of steel drill stock is probably not a good idea. It would be close to impossible to get themaligned for even decent accuracy without professional skill and equipment.If I were doing this, I would buy commercial tungsten carbide rod, which I think can be bought at about $8.50 for enough for around (3/8x3"=10x76mm)(I'm thinking for a 20mm round here), then grind a taper on the front with a groove to crimp on analuminum nosecone, and grind a long taper on the rear with a further reduction and threads for a flush fitting aluminum tailpiece, which I would silver-solder on (as a solid cylinder) before milling the fins precisely in line with the centerline. Then Iwould assemble a sabot around the rear taper. I would make it by cutting a suitably large round bar in half and milling the cutfaces flat, then clamping the half-bars together and turning their outer surface until it forms a cylinder a few thousandths of aninch less than the bore diameter of the gun. Then I would cut it into a "spool" shape with a roughly square profile or somewhatsquatter, with a stem extending to the rear to hold the dart shaft. The inside would be reamed to fit the tapered body of thedart. It would be assembled with o-rings in grooves on the spool 'rings'; the rear ring would also have a crimp groove to fix itto the cartridge case.As for the glued-smokeless charge, the R&D for that is up to you! If I were to make a caseless cartridge, I would use partiallynitrated paper impregnated with wax, or fully nitrated paper with polyurethane varnish to seal the outside. The reason Iwouldn't try glued smokeless is that it would seriously alter the burnrate, probably unpredictably. It -could- allow you to usepowder meant for smaller caliber rifles, but as I said, the R&D is up to you.Caseless systems do have a problem with breech sealing, though, so I would use a semi-caseless if I couldn't get suitablebrass casings. The case base would be a few cm long -just long enough to have the start of the thin walls which expandagainst the chamber and provide most of the sealing, and a ring of thin rubber sheet lining it and extending just past theedge of the base. The rest of the cartridge would be the combustible case, powder charge, and projectile. This is basically howAmerican combustible cased 120mm tank rounds are made. (their seal is case rubber, but I can't think of a way to improvisea precise rubber casting)Another reason I would use a metal base is that it would provide a convenient base for the primer to sit in. If you can't getmetal cases, you probably can't get the really big primers used in .50 BMG ammo, so you either want to mix 1-5% flashpowder with your charge (I have not tried this in a gun, but it definitely improves ignition), or use a 2-stage primer, where astandard rifle primer fires into a tube or chamber filled with flash or BP.

Aikon: I'm pretty sure the AMR is from the early 90's. Back in the day when "High-Tech" meant all-plastic and the nameemded in "-2000" :)world.guns.ru has a page on it:http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn46-e.htm

April 22nd, 2004, 03:21 AMrobin

There is an interesrting discussion about the subject here :

http://www.roderuscustom.tzo.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=4087632306e8ffff;act=ST;f=3;t=331; st=0

Enjoy

Robin

April 22nd, 2004, 07:01 PMJacks Complete

Cyclo_Knight,

there are a few bugs on that website for CheyTac. However, from the looks of things, I need a newer version of the PDF reader- sadly WinXP is acting up and won't allow me to install anything that needs the windows installer!

Anyway. Do you have any idea what sort of muzzle energy this rifle has? Muzzle velocity? I am going to start saving, I think,since I know you can buy anti-tank rifles in this country with the right variation, and $12000 is "only" £6,757.66!

Wonder how much a round costs?

April 22nd, 2004, 09:01 PMWicked1

The barret you talked about in the second post of this made me search out the barret light fifty... The M82A1http://world.guns.ru/sniper/barett_m82a1_1.jpg

in comparison against an m16a2 standard infantry rifle:http://world.guns.ru/sniper/barett_m82a1_m16.jpg

Newer:http://world.guns.ru/sniper/barett_m82a3_1.jpg

one last pic (nice):http://images.gunsamerica.com/upload/976292398-1.jpg

Ripped info of gun:

Caliber: .50 BMG (12.7 x 99mm)Operation: Short Recoil, Semi-AutomaticOverall Length: 1448 mmBarrel Length: 737 mmFeed Device: 10 Round Detachable Box MagazineSights: 10X Telescopic :o though its not like we cant just get a better scope ;)Weight: 12.9 kg emptyMuzzle Velocity: 854 m/s (M33 Ball) (we wouldnt use ball)Max Effective Range: 1800 metersExpected accuracy: 1.5 - 2.0 MOA or better


http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn46-e.htmhttp://www.roderuscustom.tzo.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=4087632306e8ffff;act=ST;f=3;t=331;http://world.guns.ru/sniper/barett_m82a1_1.jpghttp://world.guns.ru/sniper/barett_m82a1_m16.jpghttp://world.guns.ru/sniper/barett_m82a3_1.jpghttp://images.gunsamerica.com/upload/976292398-1.jpg

and for Fingerless: get saving,

Category: Big .50 Caliber Rifles GA#: 976292398Model: **Barrett M82-A1 50 BMG NIB** Seller #: Seller Stock # 82a1

Price: $7,495.00 Seller: Southwest FirearmsReturn Policy: 3 DaysShipping Terms: Actual CostCredit Cards: Visa Mastercard AMEX DiscoverFFL Dealer;)

-PS FOR EDIT, the [img] didnt work for the pic links of some, so thats y there are urls

April 22nd, 2004, 09:23 PMtiac03

Canadian army snipers use the McMillan TAC 50.http://www.sniper.ws/photogallery/tac%2050.jpg

personally although not as "cool" looking as the barrett Semi auto, I like it more because of its accuracy. Supposidly kicks likea mule though (doesn't have the dampening mechanisms like the movable barrel that the barrett has).

links on both tac 50 and canadian snipers in afghanistan:http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-ctac50.htmhttp://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1026271952413_269

Biggerhammer.net has a barret M82A1 demo vid if anyone hasn't seen it yet.http://www.biggerhammer.net/barrett/video/

Speaking of 50's a while ago some guy held up a money truck (armored truck carries money from stores and banks) with a 50cal... I guess that is why they banned 'em (made them prohibited?)up here. (I am assuming, maybe the gov has more foolishreasons)

April 22nd, 2004, 10:30 PMzaibatsu

Jack's Complete:

In theory you can get one, if you get the right variation on a FAC. I heard on one of the islands off the coast of England thereis a range suitable, but again having the range to shoot it is only one of the problems. The views of FAC officers varies aroundthe country, some will let you have a certain calibre rifle for some things, others won't. But troubles getting one aside, it wouldbe a hell of a lot of fun :)

April 25th, 2004, 08:18 PMJacks Complete

I have heard that there are only three ranges in the UK that have standing orders that allow .50 BMG, but I am not sure that itis true. Certainly the vast majority can't handle anything above .22 or some pistol calibres.

I know that Altcar can handle it, near Manchester, at up to 800 yards. Bisley can't. Those are the two biggest ranges in the UK.There are more than a few that have danger areas that go out into the sea, and that let the military shoot anti-tank missilesand the like, so .50 must be allowed on those... Does anyone know?

zaibatsu, I heard there was one range where the target went on a little island, and you shot at it from extreme ranges, but itmight have been a wind-up!

May 8th, 2004, 02:47 PMteshilo

Main problem for 0.50 - his wild recoil.In industrial made big calibre rifle used various methods: in 20 mm- recoilless tube, inother- hard frame absorbing recoil and transmit it to the other surface, various compensators etc...For home made 0.50example with recoilless tube more like..

May 8th, 2004, 08:16 PMMightyQuinn®

Speaking of 50's a while ago some guy held up a money truck (armored truck carries money from stores and banks) with a 50cal... I guess that is why they banned 'em (made them prohibited?)up here. (I am assuming, maybe the gov has more foolishreasons)

To the best of my knowledge, there have been no .50 caliber weapons used in crimes. Edit: At least in the US.

To use a .50 to kill the driver of the armored car would be foolish. Why shoot the only person that can open the door :D

I am sure that a .50 *would* be a great way to let the driver know that he should open or you *could* put an API through hisbrain pan. ;)



http://www.sniper.ws/photogallery/tac%2050.jpghttp://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-ctac50.htmhttp://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1026271952413_269http://www.biggerhammer.net/barrett/video/

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Military Science > Rifles and Shotguns > My .50BMG Experience

View Full Version : My .50BMG Experience


Couple monthes ago I had a chance to shootan AR-50 (bolt, single shot) at my local range. The experience, as I will tell, is in my hope to be a pointer for those who had never shot an .50BMG. I am not trying to makeyou like the caliber less, nor do I attempt to attract you into the cult.

It w as a special event when every type of gun is welcome, except full-autos, so gun fans brought their arsenal and compare the size of muzzleblast due to (our) phallic nature.

Shotguns got topped off by .44mag, .44mag got topped off by .50AE Desert Eagle, .50AE got topped off by .300Win Mag, .300Win Mag got topped off by another guy that shota strange w ildcat caliber...

Then a guy came in w ith his AR-50. He w ould yell "EARS" before each time he fires.Generously offered chances for everyone to "have a go at it", I gathered around the rifle, joining a group of wannabes.

When I was waiting for my go, I picked up a couple empty shotgun shells, and placed themabout 6 inches aw ay from the muzzlebrake. I thought the shells w ould fall off the bench from the redirected blast, but they didn't.

The shells went STRAIGHT AT ME, they flew 4 meters before hitting me in the centerchest.BLAST IT!!

The guy in front of me is now peering through the scope on the monster machine. My eyes were wide open to see how the target reacts to 13000ft-lb of muzzle energy. Heshot, I didn't see. The gun didn't generate any flash(could be the effect of long barrel), but w hen the muzzlebrake-amplified shockwave pass through by face, I am blinded for afraction of second though my eyes are good and w ide open. Gave me a strange sensation a few seconds later, I didn't figure out if the sensation is "nausia" before the oddsensation is gone.

My turn had come, now the throne and the staff is under my command. I like to put my non-shooting hand under the buttstock of a rifle when I bench-shoot a rifle, that way Ican adjust the elevation of the rifle by relaxing the hand or clenching it. I was going to lift the butt end so my hand can slip underneath it, it won't budge. Yes it actually would,my muscle just w asn't expected to lift a 34lb weight.

After ensuring every ear is well protected, I squeezed the trigger. The recoil is a large amount, but it came in like an SKS. The total amount of recoil had moved me, and thegun, back 2 feet away from original firing location.

"Not too bad, eh?" The owner of the AR-50 said to me, as he hammered the bolt up using his fist(I dunno if sticky bolt is a common phenomenon on .50BMG bolt-guns, so Ican't comment anything) I asked if he needs the empty case (a boxer-primed) for re-loading, he said he doesn't reload. "It doesn't matter to me if it's only military ammo, Idon't really need it to be accurate, I buy this rifle so I can have fun" he said.

"So I can have fun", good enough a reason in Canada. Since we don't have any organization or match dedicated to "the fifty" here, it's not a pity to have a .50BMG and nottw eak it up a little.

The rifle cost 4500$CDN, while the ammo is estimated 2.50$CDN a pop.(could be less)

Currently the w orld record of 1000yard shooting is held by .50BMG rifle. It's capable of great long-range accuracy.

When it comes to destructive pow er, an experimenter once built several wooden shacks to simulate common houses. He found the projectile blasting through 6 houses! (not 6pieces of w ood.)

When it comes to reloading costs, everything is custom job. From press to dies, from primer(huge size) to bullets.

Though the rifle/caliber do not fit my shooting needs, nothing else can replace .50BMG for its competence.

July 6th, 2006, 06:43 AMneo-crossbow

Thanks for sharing! I too remember my first .50 BMG experiance. It w on't ever be a vague memory that is for sure.

July 11th, 2006, 12:17 AMSausagemit

In my home town of Alliance Nebraska they hold an annual .50 cal match. I have never had the opportunity to see it though and I am kicking myself everytime I miss it. It wasjust 3 weeks ago this year :(.

I have yet to even see a .50 BMG shoot even though a friends dad has one and w e w ere going to go shoot it at the range in Alliance but it was raining like crazy the only daywe had a chance :( .

Here is one of the best sources for .50 BMG information that I can find.Including records and competition information.

http://ww w.fcsa.org

July 28th, 2006, 10:28 AMrandy803

I recently saw a show about the Barret .50 shop and they have designed a new rifle for MILITARY use only in 25mm it looks just like the .50 they make but in 25mm. Its calledthe XM109 look here for details --

http://ww w.barrettrifles.com/military.htm

July 30th, 2006, 06:31 PMEkilo

Not to nit-pick but the AR-50 is not a .50BMG

BrowningMachineGun

The AR-50 is chambered for the .50BMG round. This round was developed in around 1910 for the Browning Machine Gun.

This is the M2 .50cal Brow ning Machine Gun or .50BMG for short.http://en.w ikipedia.org/w iki/M2_machine_gun

Sorry to nit pick but I have experience with the M2 but none for the AR-50.

August 20th, 2006, 09:47 PMShadowMyGeekSpace

The AR-50 is a .50BMG rifle, because .50BMG is the designation of the actual round it uses. If someone w as talking about the M2, they w ould say the M2, as that is itsdesignation.

August 30th, 2006, 06:14 PMpmercer

After ensuring every ear is well protected, I squeezed the trigger. The recoil is a large amount, but it came in like an SKS. The total amount of recoil had moved me, and thegun, back 2 feet away from original firing location.

I fired an AR50 in Feb but didn't find the recoil all that. Certainly no more than my .303 Lee Enfield.

I would have to agree with the blast coming back over your shoulders. As a shooter you don't notice it, but my friend w ho was over my right shoulder ended up on the floor. Idid have to chuckle until it happened to me w hen he shot!!

As a comparison, I fired a .50 Barrett rifle (type escapes me) last year and it seemed a lot louder with slightly more recoil than the AR50.

January 4th, 2007, 02:29 PMsalbahis

well perhaps all you guys have some good experience with .50BMG, this is a story from my Philippine Marine Brother

Log in


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"during my first tour of duty in Mindanao, Philippines back at 2000, during mindanao conflict with the moro rebels, i was assigned to a unit as a Squad Gunner!,i have my firstexperience with a .50BMG Rifle to be specific a Barrett M95 Sniper Rifle, during that time the M95 are new to the unit and we are lucky to be one of those w ho used it during anoperation against Muslim Rebel!, during a routine night patrol we come across a bunker w ith 15 to 16 armed muslim rebel, our team leader told our sniper to position accross therice field to take out the machine gunner!, the sniper did take out the gunner but the sound of Barrett M95 alerted the nearby camp!, then all hell broke lose, there are only 10of us!, we are really outnumbered, and w ere pinned down with small arms and RPG, if it wasn't for the airsupport i w ouldn't be here telling this!, the distinct sound of .50 BMGare it's downside, it so distinct that the enemy can determined if there are marine in the area!, in all the branch of armed forces, the philippine marine are only unit who havesuch weapon, i really don't have a good experience with .50 BMG!, i would rather use M21 or M24!"

January 5th, 2007, 03:47 AMInfernoMDM

I lost some interest in the 50 caliber rifles a while back. Looking at ballistics price of rounds etc I decided against buying one a w hile ago. Minus anti material uses the rifle canbarely top other weapons that are easier to handle and cheaper to shoot. They are fun as hell to shoot.

Sausagemit - I lived in Alliance for a few years w hen did you move out?

January 6th, 2007, 09:09 PMJacks Complete

I tried to pick up a .50 one time. I barely shifted it as it was at least twice the weight I expected. I nearly tipped it over onto the muzzle brake as it tipped on the bipod! Oops!Not good at a gun show. I managed to get my other hand to it in time, thank god.

I'd love to fire one. It would go through our range backstop entirely.

January 10th, 2007, 05:01 AMMike123

About three years ago a friend of mine purchased a .50bmg rifle from me when I managed a gun shop. It was a less expensive, single shot .50 manufactured by Grizzley. Wewent out and shot it on some property he had with some other friends, using the bed of his truck as the shooting platform. All the guys there were coffee junkies and someonehad set a styrophome coffee cup on the tailgate about a foot to the right of the muzzle break. When the rifle was fired, it explosively blew the cup into dozens of pieces, w hichreally surprised me. I could see it blasting it several feet away, but to practically disintegrate it w as awe inspiring.On a side note, shoooting it in the bed of a pickup truck was not really the best idea. Everyone wore ear protection, but it still felt like you w ere inside a large bell as someonepounded on it with a sledge hammer.

January 25th, 2007, 07:43 AMLibertyOrDeath

I, too, recently fired a .50 BMG rifle for the first time. It was a Serbu BFG-50, which is a bolt action single-shot and a very nice rifle for the price (~$2200). I think it was the 36"barrel model w ith the overall rifle weight of 32 lbs.

The guy who owned the rifle advised me to pull the stock very firmly into my shoulder pocket with the firing hand and to be careful about eye relief. Then I let 'er rip.

Recoil was no joke, but not what I would call painful. It w asn't like getting punched or anything. Think of having someone put the end of a baseball bat against your shoulderand then shoving you with it -- that's how it felt to me.

The Barrett M82, w hich is a gas-operated semi-auto of similar weight, has a free recoil energy of about 100 ft-lbs. The Serbu's free recoil energy should be even higher, since ithas no gas system. If anyone wants to compare that to other calibers, there are some handy charts at this link:

Rifles: http://www .chuckhaw ks.com/recoil_table.htmShotguns: http://www .chuckhaw ks.com/shotgun_recoil_table.htm

A word of warning: Shooting a .50 BMG rifle that isn't equipped with a muzzle break is supposed to be very unpleasant and even potentially dangerous. Think of dislocatedshoulders, retinal detachments, etc.

I dunno if sticky bolt is a common phenomenon on .50BMG bolt-gunsI suspect it w as just his gun; the bolt of the gun I shot didn't stick at all.

January 31st, 2007, 03:39 PMdroz

I've fired the Barrett M82A1, and the M95.

I must say I w as beyond impressed in the gas recoil system on the M82A1. I was able to fire off shot after shot w ith a minimum dow ntime after the initial recoil. I'm not positiveabout the time, but I hit 10, 1000 yard targets, 10 times in just under 40 seconds.

The M95 was comparable to the ArmaLite AR-50, aside from the w orkmanship of the rifle. It was a very well balanced, and the action w as superb. I've owned various .50 BMGRifles and if I had to choose between an ArmaLite AR-50, or a Barrett M95 or M99 (if price were not a factor,) I'd most definitely go with the Barrett.

An associate of mine took the muzzle break off his AR-50 and fired it to see w hat it would do. Needless to say, he was hospitalized with a severe dislocation and tearing ofseveral ligaments. It is not a practice I would ever recommend.

While the M82A1 packs a premium price ($7505-$8010,) I would highly recommend this rifle.

The M95 is a bit more reasonably priced at $5000-5710, and the M99 is betw een $3200 and $4000, although I have personally seen the M99 sell for as low as $1700 in variousgun shops in Wyoming, Colorado, and Texas.

March 14th, 2008, 03:54 PMAnformula

I went through a passionate .50 phase a few years back. I have all the specialized loading equipment, bullets, powder, etc. Vitually none of it is usable with smaller caliberrounds.

I shot the Lar Grizzly for a while. Nice gun, but I eventually sold it. Not particularly accurate, and what use is a 1500 yard range gun that shoots 2MOA?

Then I had a no holds barred custom actioned .50 built. The gunsmith wound up taking so damn long to build it (well over a year) that my interest kind of wilted. I have hadthat completed rifle for over 5 years and I have never even fired it. Pathetic. In my area there is also a "where to go" problem. There is a 1000 yard range nearby, but theybought into the bullshit "VPC" hysteria and banned .50s.

What people say about the recoil not being bad is really true. The comparison is like getting shoved (50) vs being punched (many smaller calipers). You can feel the energyfrom the 50 recoil in your shoulder, but because the rifles are so heavy it is not at all unpleasant. Like a shove. I have a short barreled Remington 870 12 gauge shotgun, thatwith 3" magnum shells absolutely spanks me. MUCH worse than the 50.....

Noise/muzzle blast is another issue though. Here, the 50 has to be seen/heard/experienced to be believed. Really nasty blast.....

March 14th, 2008, 08:10 PMa3990918

I've fired the Barrett M82A1, and the M95.An associate of mine took the muzzle break off his AR-50 and fired it to see w hat it would do. Needless to say, he was hospitalized with a severe dislocation and tearing ofseveral ligaments. It is not a practice I would ever recommend.

1. It's Muzzle Brake not Break :p (The Mods can be heavy handed on such mistakes)

2. Not to knock your "Associate" but firing a .50 without a muzzle brake, unless it is securely mounted to some HEAVY object, is just foolish. There are far to many cases ofshoulder injuries, detatched retinas etc for someone to do such a thing, unless they are looking for some Masochistic fun... :rolleyes:

March 14th, 2008, 11:24 PMdroz

No one ever said this associate w as smart.

He thought he was billy bad ass since he did time.

And yes, I spelled brake w rong, I can't exactly remember what I was doing at the time but there is no excuse for that. May have been in an airport who knows.

March 24th, 2008, 01:45 AMphrankinsteyn

May be a little off topic but thought you may be interested.We used a .50 cal (single shot) on the 106 recoilless rifle (M40A1). It was attached to side of 106 and used as a spotting round. You would sight target with .50 cal., if roundstruck target you then fired the 106 (nice little round that 106.) No recoil at all, for shooter, as long as you stood at side...............:rolleyes:

March 31st, 2008, 11:14 PMZait


http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htmhttp://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_recoil_table.htm

May be a little off topic but thought you may be interested.We used a .50 cal (single shot) on the 106 recoilless rifle (M40A1).

Yes but that .50 is smaller than the .50 BMG round.

Here is a picture of the .50 spotter you are referring to compared to the .50 BMG and the Russian equivalent (all three are show n using the metric measurements because I didthis picture for another topic some time ago).

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/4291/127mmammo3px.jpg

March 31st, 2008, 11:20 PMa3990918

Yes but that .50 is smaller than the .50 BMG round.

I remember some guys experimenting with and chambering some guns for the "Spotter" round, in an effort reduce recoil and w eapon weight, a few years back. I don't thinkanything ever came of it though.

April 1st, 2008, 06:16 PMphrankinsteyn

I believe you could use a standard .50 round(s) used for .50 machine guns. A regular .50 (ball) w ould probably throw off accuracy though. So to be on safe side research thismore if you plan on firing the 106. Any old guys out there who can help me out? It has been a long time since I last fired gun and could not find anything in the manual statingotherwise (on round type). We may have used both types. We had to learn/familiarize ourself's w ith this weapon for defending our base. I was in the infantry platoon notweapons platoon. When I googled it, Wikipediai stated also it was a different round. I should have said .50 spotting gun , magazine feed and mounted to 106mm recoilless rifle.What I meant by single shot is it/you fired one round at a time for target acquisition. If round struck you immediately fire 106 round. The 106 was basically used against tanks.Sorry about that. :confused: I broke out my old field manual, FM 23-82, on the weapon.

Here are some specs.

Weight without magazine: 25 pounds.Capacity of standard magazine: 10 rounds.Weight of standard magazine loaded: 4 pounds.Length of gun: 44 inches.Length of barrel: 24 inches.Chamber grooves: 8.Chamber pressure: 33,400 pounds per square inch.Maximum range: 3,100 meters (3,400 yards).Range of tracer element: 1,500 meters (1,645 yards).Muzzle velocity: 1,700 feet per second.

Hope that info helps some. Thanks for posting photos of the different rounds and the other info.

Added a link for more .50 cal ammo info.http://ww w.olive-drab.com/od_firearms_ammo_50cal.php

April 1st, 2008, 06:38 PMZait

I believe it was a standard .50 round(s) used for .50 machine guns.

The spotting rifle for the 106mm recoilless gun is the M8C Spotting rifle. You can see one that has been restored here http://www.historicreproductions.com/restore1.htm

The ammunition used for that rifle is hard to come by but here is where you can buy a dummy round for the gun http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=726120&chrSuperSKU=&MC=

As you can see in the link, the cartridge measures approx 4.53" and the standard .50 BMG measures approx. 5.5 inches.

Here is probably the best look at the rifle http://morrow-industries.com/morrow-project-blog/?p=120 and you can see that they too state that the ammunition is 12.7 x 77 mm(ok, it's a site about a role playing game but they do pretty good research on the items that they use in it).

That's not to say that someone may have replaced the rifle you w ere using w ith some type of modified rifle that fired standard ammo. Of course, it's quite possible that youwere using a sub-cal device that inserted into the 106mm barrel and allowed you to fire a standard .50 BMG cartridge.

April 2nd, 2008, 09:28 PMVitalis

So from w hat I've read around, the Serbu BFG-50 is a good 50 Cal rifle, especially for the price. I don't have much to spend, so the high-end 50 cals are out of the question, butis the consensus w ith the 50 cal shooters favorable about the Serbu?



http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/4291/127mmammo3px.jpghttp://www.olive-drab.com/od_firearms_ammo_50cal.phphttp://www.historicreproductions.com/restore1.htmhttp://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?http://morrow-industries.com/morrow-project-blog/?p=120

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Military Science > Rifles and Shotguns > M1 Garand and M1 Carbine - Archive File

View Full Version : M1 Garand and M1 Carbine - Archive File

March 17th, 2003, 09:02 PMAnthony

Oliver KA new voicePosts: 17From:Registered: FEB 2001posted February 13, 2001 10:00 PM--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Im from Canada and i was wondering if ne one knows where i can find a M1 garand for sale..i have not seen ne ever for sale...maybe im not looking in the right places...Also does ne one know if the M2 bolt will fit in the m1 carbine making it selectable fire...or is it the m3 bolt that i need..

THANKS for UR HELP again GUYS!

HMTD FactoryFrequent PosterPosts: 217From:Registered: FEB 2001posted February 14, 2001 02:56 PM--------------------------------------------------------------------------------WWW.MILARM.COMno experience with M1 Garand or Carbine.

Agent BlakFrequent PosterPosts: 765From: Sk. CanadaRegistered: SEP 2000posted February 14, 2001 05:57 PM--------------------------------------------------------------------------------I Know for a fact that they are legal and not that expensive. Try a GUN SHOW or two.

------------------A wise man once said:"... As He Waits For The Time When The Last Become First And,The First Shall Become last"--RATM

Agent Blak-------OUT!!

Oliver KA new voicePosts: 17From:Registered: FEB 2001posted February 14, 2001 07:04 PM--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Thanks all of you guys...That site about millarms especially...LOTS of CHEAP GOOD GUNS...well rifles...And thanks about the gun show advice...yeah i used to go..but lately the ones in my area of not been operation..maybe their new sesion did not start or something..i have toget one of their sheduels..

THANK AGAIN!

The RealFrequent PosterPosts: 136From: Columbus, OHRegistered: DEC 2000posted February 15, 2001 12:18 AM--------------------------------------------------------------------------------M1 to M2 conversion requires the bolt, auto sear, selector, and I believe a few holes drilled. I do know for sure it's more than a bolt.

October 3rd, 2004, 05:18 PMIsotoxin

I happen to own an M1 Garand. I got it from my grandfather who passed it on to me when he died. Its in very nice shape.

June 15th, 2006, 10:47 AMneo-crossbow

[QUOTE=Anthony]Im from Canada and i was wondering if ne one knows where i can find a M1 garand for sale..i have not seen ne ever for sale...maybe im not looking in the right places...Also does ne one know if the M2 bolt will fit in the m1 carbine making it selectable fire...or is it the m3 bolt that i need..

THANKS for UR HELP again GUYS![\QUOTE]

You might also want to try a jig. Its 3 holes....

in the US the parts are now class III so good luck in Canada. There used to be plans floating around for the parts to be made (sorry its been years since I have seen them)

A few different mods that I have come across are ' pinching RC556 bits of mini-14's and fitting the whole trigger pack (a major bottom end job) a modded angle on the stop ofthe trigger sear and a new retainer scratch built that held the hammer until the bolt was fully closed.

I reccomend the M1 carbine as it realisticly was the first short stroke gas action, is mild on recoil and can have large cap mags even in restricted states (exc CA) here in aus,well those days have passed anyway.

People will tell you that m1 ammo won't do the job, its underpowered ect ect. I've seen what it does with a .22 sabot and with a 110 gn JSP to all sorts of animals and I amglad I wasn't one of them!!!

The brass can also be made from .223 rem if you have good dies and take a little time, i've done that in the past when M1 brass was just puss on the market! Best of luck

February 27th, 2007, 05:46 PMShaker

The easiest way to get an M1 Garand for a decent price would be through the Civilian Marksmanship program. To be most effective, I would suggest that you enter the Small

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Arms Firing School coming up at the end of July at Camp Perry, Ohio.

What this does, is gives you '50 rounds fired in competition' - Which will allow you to start purchasing from the CMP. They have thousands of surplus Garands. If you attend theSmall Arms Firing School, you can purchase up to eight Garands per year.

It would help to know what you are looking at, though. Being surplus rifles, one could be a crowbar and the next could be immaculate. If you want any sort of quality - Bringyour trusty bore and throat gauges with you. Check for matching serial numbers. There will be enough open to the public to make a choice.

Though I am new here, I enjoy you people and the wonderful information that you share. Due to this, I will let you in on some closet information. This year, for the first time inhistory, the CMP will be selling M1 Carbines.

They have the largest stockpile of M1 Carbines in the world. The rules will be different than the sales of the Garands, however, because of the expected frenzy. For moreinformation, feel free to ask me.

February 28th, 2007, 12:17 PMInfernoMDM

Making a M1 into full auto seems almost pointless to me. People have a hard enough time trying to shoot several of the modern, much heavier, machine guns. I can't see thisbeing very useful. The M1 is better aimed not sprayed.

August 6th, 2008, 09:16 PMSampson1986

Making a M1 into full auto seems almost pointless to me. People have a hard enough time trying to shoot several of the modern, much heavier, machine guns. I can't see thisbeing very useful. The M1 is better aimed not sprayed.

I agree.

At over $25 for a box of .30 Carbine cartridges, you'd have to have to be a rich man to feed an M2.

November 18th, 2008, 10:14 PM486

...The brass can also be made from .223 rem if you have good dies and take a little time...

The rim diameter is much smaller on the .30 carbine brass, you could make the rim smaller on a lathe, but you would still have to deal with the wider case web area, which theresizing die won't size down, I've tried, it's really not worth 10 minutes per case.

...or is it the m3 bolt that i need...

The M-3 carbine was the same thing as the M-2 carbine, only with a night vision scope mount [a big deal when it was brought out].



The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Military Science > Rifles and Shotguns > The Ultimate Sniper Rifle

View Full Version : The Ultimate Sniper Rifle

June 12th, 2003, 06:10 PMancalagon

As you all no doubt know, silent firearm technology has been evolving for a very long time, and has taken various shapes indifferent countries and eras. The russians came out with an assault rifle which was supposedly able to pierce body armor froma fair distance, yet fired a subsonic bullet. The MP5SD submachine gun was designed specifically to have one of the bestsound suppressors around. Other guns have been made which use a more silent propulsion than cumbustion powder. Yet eachof these systems has its problems, either at the firing end, the travelling end, the contact end, or a combination.

What if, then, one were to create a rifle that fired a anti-material size (15 to 20 mm) bullet with an explosive tip at subsonicspeeds using an electrical (or another and better form of a) silent propulsion system. After a desired distance, however, thebullet would turn into a rocket by a time delay ignition and significantly increase the speed and sound of the bullet, yetbecause the bullet would be by then be far from the shooter, the sound would make little difference. In fact, one mightdeliberately increase the sound of the projectile in a certain fashion as to make guesses on point of origin more difficult. Thebullet/rocket would also have a homing device, so that with a laser the gunner could "paint" the target (using an exceptionalscope) making the gun very accurate, and possibly firing the bullet on a curved track to further prohibit retaliation.

This design would be unwieldy for many purposes. It would be too bulky and possibly too powerful to fire except from theground, it would be incredibly efficient at short range, and the cartridges would be quite expensive and large, making bothproduction and magazine size quite limited. However, for long range "one shot, one kill" firing this design would be (I believe)ideal. Any thoughts/comments/questions?

June 12th, 2003, 06:55 PMTuatara

I can't see the point. I've been next to a sniper rifle being blank fired. The noise was so colossal there was no way to tellwhere it came from. The echoes from the surrounding hills went on for ages. For a covert sniper I'd have thought supressingmuzzle flash and smoke would be more important.

Also 'long-range', 'sub-sonic', and 'decent accuracy' are somewhat conflicting requirements.

June 12th, 2003, 07:05 PMsubsonic

Would be a nice toy, such a Mini Stinger Thingy. But it would be very hard to manufacture for a backyard/garage constructor -too hard for me. All I have are explosive arrows for my pistol crossbow :D

June 12th, 2003, 09:46 PMcutefix

Anacalgon what you just written , borders in fantasy.You want to apply missile technology to an ordinary ball ammo or if its modified version with explosive tip plus make it smart.Hmnn sounds like miniature version of the TOW missile applying ideas of nanotechnology.In terms of practicality the days of smart small arms ammunition is still in the planning stage .Indeed I read it somewhere inthe net a short time ago about the planning and developments in Oakridge laboratory in this line of work.Now for anti material ammunition that can penetrate sheet metal the 50 caliber bullet fired from the Barrett or Mcmillan sniperrifle is already impressive.The sniper mentality is focused on the best effectivity coupled simplicity.And the sniper is already happy with the precision made match grade ammunition.It is not an easy job being a top gun in bush and introduce such complicated ammunition that is not robust in the fieldcondition.It will complicate the logistics of ammunition supply .Just remember previously the team of spotter and the sniper usually share the sane caliber of ammunition for the differentrifle they carry in combat;although the sniper carries the match ammo and the spotter the normal ball ammunition. Now incases the sniper runs out of his precious ammunition he can relly on his partners stock for his rifle to be still useful.

If you want to make a subsonic ammo for such an anti material sniper rifle which due to the nature of the bullet speed will beshort range;the ordinary grenade launcher can do the same job with devastating effect.Why complicate it?

June 13th, 2003, 02:42 AMnbk2000

The US military is already working on something very much like this. Large caliber, rocket boosted, laser guided...sure youdidn't see the same show I did and just thought of posting this as something "you" thought up?

At least it isn't as lame as the "Lukes lay on lightsabers" thread some newbie started. :rolleyes:

Seriously, things like railguns, ice bullets, jet-powered missles, laser guided sniper bullets, and other things of the ilk belongin the head of the dreamer that they came from, and not on The Forum.

Lots of people...exclusively nOObies, as far as I've seen...have posted crap about how they "plan" to build these sorts ofthings.

So far, not ONE person has ever posted any PROOF that they've constructed any of these things. And all it does is distractfrom real experimenters, and take up megabytes and bandwidth.

If someone...anyone...was to ever post a thread about one of these subjects, and had photographic or, even better, videoproof of having constructed one of these devices to an operational level, then I'd be HIGHLY impressed.

Until then, crap like this belongs in the recycle bin. :( Along with the morons who post it! :mad:

June 13th, 2003, 04:03 AMBoob Raider

These kind of novel ammos come up in movies and tv shows all the time. Ancalagon ..... what you are talking about wasfeatured in an early 80's "techy" movie. There was some other show in which one has to put in a DNA sample of the target

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sucker and fire in any direction and the bullet homes on to the sucker's DNA. This technology is experimental for a couple ofdecades atleast and then another couple before you can get your hands on it, just like the good ol Nitrogen Buckyball.

June 13th, 2003, 06:27 AMArthis

I can see a few problems with this system.

The noise it will make will be heard even at the place you fire, and people are anyway likely to pay attention to you.

The other problems come with physics. How will you make your 'rocket' to fire straight and not at a random direction ? Anotherpoint is you need to put way more powder, as action/reaction principle will make the body take some of the energy: in astandard rifle, little energy is loss as you don't move a lot when firing. You thus need a heavy body, for the round to be thefastest possible, then you need really big initial ammunitions, with a lot of powder. Another point is that the body mayexplode: there's no cannon tube to hold it.

The solution would then be a rocket fired, with a 'gun' loaded in it... Even if the system is small, it's hard work for a sniper.

June 13th, 2003, 07:18 AMJhonbus

Having a rocket fire after a time delay will mean that anyone watching can see the rocket ignite. So you draw a line betweenwhere the bullet hits and where the rocket ignited, extrapolate the line a distance that corresponds to the time delay beforeignition, and that's the location of the sniper...

June 13th, 2003, 10:11 PMancalagon

Sorry I wasn't able to reply right away, I was without an internet connection for a while.

"The US military is already working on something very much like this. Large caliber, rocket boosted, laser guided...sure youdidn't see the same show I did and just thought of posting this as something "you" thought up?"

Yes.

"Lukes lay on lightsabers" thread some newbie started"

Touche.

"Lots of people...exclusively nOObies, as far as I've seen...have posted crap about how they "plan" to build these sorts ofthings."

I have no intention whatsoever of building this gun, it being illegal for me to where I live at the moment. I would, however,enjoy writing detailed plans, which I what I tend to do with any illegal project I dream up that I think might have some possibleuse.

"For a covert sniper I'd have thought supressing muzzle flash and smoke would be more important."

Actually, I have a bit of experience with military sniping, and not only is the sound and smoke a problem, even the gun shapeis easily recognized even at great distance, and must be broken down.

"You want to apply missile technology to an ordinary ball ammo or if its modified version with explosive tip plus make itsmart."

The point here is NOT to use ordinary ammo, or even modified ammo, but cartridges built from the ground up. The homingdevice would be as simple as possible, because the gun would be too impractical for shooting fast moving targets.

"Now for anti material ammunition that can penetrate sheet metal the 50 caliber bullet fired from the Barrett or Mcmillan sniperrifle is already impressive."

I've used the .50 Barret Sniper rifle, and I do like it. It is not the best there is, but it is certainly one of the most powerful.However, anti-material rifles can shoot bullets which are able to penetrate 40mm of rolled homogenous steel armour at a1000 meters, and do fair damage to what is behind.

"If you want to make a subsonic ammo for such an anti material sniper rifle which due to the nature of the bullet speed will beshort range; the ordinary grenade launcher can do the same job with devastating effect.Why complicate it?"

I don't know if you read my post wrong, if I'm not seeing your point, or if I wasn't clear. The gun would fire subsonic bulletsthat after a certain would fly off of their own fuel (essentially, a rocket) enabling the subsonic projectile to reach great ranges.Also, a grenade launcher would do more damage than I want. The explosive tip would be small, just to help the projectile topenetrate armour or ensure a kill, not to blow-up a vehicle or something similar.

"And all it does is distract from real experimenters, and take up megabytes and bandwidth."

I'm sorry, I must have mistook the purpose of this particular section of the forum. It says, "This section is for discussion aboutdesigning, building, and using improvised weaponry," but I did not know a post had to include all three. I was just putting outa basic design for possible improvements or, more likely and in apparent actuality, a bunch of people to tell me I'm a moronwho belongs in the recycle bin.

"The noise it will make will be heard even at the place you fire"

The point is I will not use an explosive to fire the projectile, using instead some other system (possibly an electronic one, astho

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