united states district court for the …...november4,2013 2 of 62 sheets page 5 to 8 of 241 nathan d...

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF WISCONSIN

----------------------------------------------------------------RUTHELLE FRANK, et al., on behalf ofthemselves and all others similarlysituated,

Plaintiffs,

vs.

SCOTT WALKER, in his official capacityas Governor of the State of Wisconsin,et al.,

Defendants.

--------------------------------------

LEAGUE OF UNITED LATIN AMERICANCITIZENS (LULAC) OF WISCONSIN, et al.,

Plaintiffs,

vs.

DAVID G. DEININGER, et al.,

Defendants.

))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Case No. 11-CV-1128

Milwaukee, WisconsinNovember 4, 2013

Case No. 12-CV-185

----------------------------------------------------------------

TRANSCRIPT OF COURT TRIAL - VOLUME 1BEFORE THE HONORABLE LYNN ADELMANUNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE

U.S. Official Reporter:Transcript Orders:

JOHN T. SCHINDHELM, RMR, CRR,WWW.JOHNSCHINDHELM.COM

Proceedings recorded by computerized stenography,transcript produced by computer aided transcription.

November4,2013

Page 1 to 4 of 241 1 of 62 sheets

1

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF WISCONSIN

----------------------------------------------------------------RUTHELLE FRANK, et al., on behalf ofthemselves and all others similarlysituated,

Plaintiffs,

vs.

SCOTT WALKER, in his official capacityas Governor of the State of Wisconsin,et al., Defendants.

--------------------------------------

LEAGUE OF UNITED LATIN AMERICANCITIZENS (LULAC) OF WISCONSIN, et al.,

Plaintiffs,

vs.

DAVID G. DEININGER, et al.,

Defendants.

))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Case No. 11-CV-1128

Milwaukee, WisconsinNovember 4, 2013

Case No. 12-CV-185

----------------------------------------------------------------

TRANSCRIPT OF COURT TRIAL - VOLUME 1BEFORE THE HONORABLE LYNN ADELMANUNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE

U.S. Official Reporter:Transcript Orders:

JOHN T. SCHINDHELM, RMR, CRR,WWW.JOHNSCHINDHELM .COM

Proceedings recorded by computerized stenography,transcript produced by computer aided transcription.

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3

A P P E A R A N C E S - 1 2 - C V - 1 8 5 :

F o r t h e P la in t i f f s : C a r l S N a d le r

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4

November4,2013

2 of 62 sheets Page 5 to 8 of 241

Nathan D FosterArnold & Porter LLP370 17th St - Ste 4400Denver, CO 80202-1370303-863-1000Fax: 303-832-0428Email: [email protected]

Charles G Curtis JrArnold & Porter LLP16 N Carroll St - Ste 620

For the Plaintiffs Madison, WI 53703Cross Lutheran Church 608-257-1922and Wisconsin League of Email: [email protected] Young Voters Education Fund: Carl S Nadler

John C UlinDaniel OstrowEthan J CorsonJames A EichnerLeigh M ChapmanNathan D FosterSara K JacksonCharles G Curtis Jr(See above for address)

For the DefendantsDavid G Deininger, Michael Brennan, Gerald Nichol, Thomas Barland, Thomas Cane, Kevin Kennedy, Nathaniel Robinson: Maria S Lazar

Wisconsin Department of JusticeOffice of the Attorney General17 W Main StPO Box 7857Madison, WI 53707-7857608-267-3519Fax: 608-267-2223Email: [email protected]

Clayton P KawskiUnited States Department of Justice (ED-WI)17 W Main StMadison, WI 53703608-266-7477Fax: 608-267-2223Email: [email protected]

5

Daniel P Lennington

Wisconsin Department of Justice

Office of the Attorney General

17 W Main St

PO Box 7857

Madison, WI 53707-7857

608-267-8901

Fax: 608-267-8906

[email protected]

6

Opening Statement/Rotker

Court Trial - Vol 1 - 11/4/2013

P R O C E E D I N G S (10:00 a.m.) 1

THE COURT: Ms. Rotker, do you want to put your last 2

point on the record? And then we'll start with opening 3

statements. 4

MS. ROTKER: Yes, Your Honor. I'm Karyn Rotker with 10:01 5

the Frank plaintiffs, and we want to put in the record an 6

agreement among all parties that all the evidence in one of the 7

combined cases, the Frank and Jones, all the evidence in one 8

case is admitted for the other case as well. And that all 9

objections in one case are also applied to both cases.10:01 10

THE COURT: Okay. We'll begin. I guess I don't have 11

to call the case or put the -- I guess the court reporter has 12

all the appearances. So why don't we begin with opening 13

statements. Who is first? Okay. 14

PLAINTIFF OPENING STATEMENT 10:01 15

MS. ROTKER: Thank you, Your Honor. Good morning, 16

Your Honor. 17

I am attorney Karen Rotker of the ACLU of Wisconsin, 18

and I am one of the attorneys who has the honor of representing 19

the Frank plaintiffs, Wisconsin voters in this voting rights 10:01 20

case. 21

Over the next few days, you will hear testimony about 22

2011 Wisconsin Act 23, the voter ID law, the most far-reaching 23

election law change in Wisconsin since the 1970s. This law 24

requires voters in Wisconsin to present one of a limited number 10:02 25

7



of forms of photo identification in order to cast their votes in 1

person or, in most cases, even by absentee ballot. In other 2

words, for the vast majority of Wisconsin voters, if you don't 3

have an acceptable photo ID, you cannot cast a ballot that will 4

be counted. 10:02 5

The voter ID law imposes burdens on the tens of 6

thousands if not hundreds of thousands of voters. Indeed, the 7

state's own expert, Professor M.V. Hood, acknowledges that u at 8

least 167,000 registered Wisconsin voters do not have a driver's 9

license or state ID card. And plaintiffs' expert, Professor 10:02 10

Matt Barreto, estimates that 63,000 eligible voters in Milwaukee 11

County alone do not have any of the forms of photo ID accepted 12

under Act 23. 13

The state will argue that those voters can simply get 14

a free ID for voting. But obtaining that supposedly free ID is 10:03 15

a complex and burdensome process that imposes significant costs 16

in money and time, requiring voters to obtain at least three 17

separate documents, often from other bureaucracies, and then 18

provide those documents to the Department of Motor Vehicles 19

before they can secure an ID card. And voters mostly have to 10:03 20

fend for themselves in trying to pass this bureaucracy 21

navigation test. 22

This process is overlaid on a highly decentralized 23

system of election administration operated by 1,851 municipal 24

clerks who themselves do not always understand the law and in 10:03 25

8

November4,2013




which errors that could keep even eligible voters with ID from 1

voting are seen as inevitable. 2

Four of the Frank plaintiffs claims, 1, 2, 4, and 6, 3

are brought under the equal protection clause. We will show the 4

significant and arbitrary burdens the voter ID law imposes on 10:03 5

voters lacking documents DMV requires and on voters who can't 6

afford those documents and on technical college students and 7

veterans who have government-issued photo IDs that the state may 8

not accept. 9

Claims 3 and 5 relate to the 24th amendment and 10:04 10

involve specific costs — poll taxes — imposed on voters such as 11

students and others who live in Wisconsin and are legally 12

allowed to vote here but must give up out-of-state licenses to 13

get the supposedly free ID, and other voters forced to pay money 14

to obtain documents DMV requires. 10:04 15

Claims 7 and 8 will show that the arbitrary and 16

inconsistent way this law is applied also violates the 17

Fourteenth Amendment. 18

Claims 9 and 10 will show how the law causes racial 19

minorities to have fewer opportunities to participate in the 10:04 20

political process, denying and diluting their votes. 21

You will hear from Shirley Brown, an African-American 22

senior citizen and longtime Milwaukee voter who was born by 23

midwife in Louisiana in the 1930s and does not have a birth 24

certificate. Although Medicare allowed her to use a letter 10:05 25

9



issued by her grade school to enroll, DMV refused to give her 1

photo ID unless she produced a birth certificate. 2

You will hear from Eddie Lee Holloway, Jr., an 3

African-American Milwaukee voter refused an ID and told by DMV 4

to amend his Illinois birth certificate because the birth 10:05 5

certificate says Eddie Junior Holloway while his Social Security 6

card says Eddie Lee Holloway, Jr. 7

You will hear from other voters and from state 8

witnesses who confirm these stringent rules, and DMV's only 9

arbitrary willingness to relax them, often only if voters or 10:05 10

family members complain to higher-ups or elected officials. 11

As Ms. Brown's and Mr. Holloway's situations 12

illustrate, these burdens are not race neutral. Plaintiffs will 13

show how the voter ID law's disproportionate impact on racial 14

minorities in conjunction with socioeconomic factors have worked 10:06 15

together to hinder the ability of racial minorities to 16

participate as effectively as white voters in the political 17

process, in violation of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act. 18

Professor Barreto's survey, which the state's own 19

expert acknowledged was well designed, confirms that eligible 10:06 20

and registered African-American and Latino voters in Milwaukee 21

County are not only less likely to have photo ID but also less 22

likely to have the underlying documents they need to get photo 23

ID compared to white voters. The state will not offer contrary 24

evidence. 10:06 25

10



Plaintiffs' other expert, Professor Marc Levine, will 1

show the long and continuing extent to which minority group 2

members bear the effects of discrimination in areas such as 3

employment, education, health, and housing, and his analysis of 4

the region's and state's long history of racially charged 10:06 5

elections. 6

You will hear evidence about the racially charged 7

targeting of Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice Louis Butler in 8

2008. 9

Plaintiffs will also produce evidence including from 10:07 10

former state representative Tamara Grigsby of elected officials' 11

lack of responsiveness to the particularized needs of minority 12

group members. 13

Defendants do not dispute that voters without ID may 14

experience burdens. Their defense appears twofold. They claim 10:07 15

that the state has an interest in deterring voter fraud, and 16

they will argue that Act 23 is authorized by the U.S. Supreme 17

Court decision in Crawford vs. Marion County Elections Board. 18

Neither contention has merit. 19

The state will offer no evidence of a single 10:07 20

prosecution in Wisconsin history for in-person voter 21

impersonation, the only kind of voter fraud that voter ID might 22

arguably prevent. Rather, the state will focus on a few 23

isolated events that Act 23 would not even prevent, such as a 24

person voting twice and, at least in one case, using a photo ID 10:08 25

11



to do so, or a person casting an absentee ballot for a deceased 1

spouse.2

Second, Act 23, unlike the Indiana statute at issue in 3

Crawford, imposes a total deprivation of the right to vote if 4

voters cannot obtain a photo ID. 10:08 5

Moreover, unlike Crawford, plaintiffs' constitutional 6

Claims 1 through 6 are not brought as a facial challenge but as 7

applied to voters with burdens obtaining ID, nor is Crawford a 8

defense to plaintiffs' claims based on the arbitrary and unequal 9

administration of the interlocking DMV and election systems or 10:08 10

to claims under the Voting Rights Act. 11

The right to vote is sacred. For the State of 12

Wisconsin to impose these unreasonable burdens in the near total 13

absence of any absence -- of any evidence that doing so will in 14

any way reduce the problem of which defendants complain, and in 10:08 15

the presence of substantial evidence that doing so will 16

disenfranchise and burden many voters, disproportionately 17

minority voters, violates the equal protection clause, imposes 18

substantial costs that constitute poll taxes, and unreasonably 19

and arbitrarily deprives voters of their voting rights in 10:09 20

violation of the 14th Amendment and it does so in a manner that 21

violates Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act. These restrictions 22

cannot be allowed to stand. 23

Thank you. 24

PLAINTIFF OPENING STATEMENT 10:09 25

12

November4,2013


Opening Statement/Ulin


MR. ULIN: Good morning, Your Honor. My name is John 1

Ulin, and I proudly represent plaintiffs in what we call the 2

Jones case. 3

This is a case about voter suppression. Over the next 4

several days, the Court will hear testimony about Wisconsin 10:09 5

Act 23, the state's so-called voter ID law, and the 6

disproportionate burdens it places on otherwise eligible black 7

and Latino voters. You will hear that Act 23 is intended to 8

prevent people from voting. 9

In passing the voter ID requirement, the legislature 10:10 10

intended to exclude people who cannot show state-issued ID at 11

the polls from voting. The state will argue that Act 23 applies 12

to everybody. It requires all voters to show ID at the polls 13

and, therefore, does not impose special burdens on black or 14

Latino voters. But that misses the point of the inquiry under 10:10 15

Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act which is the sole legal basis 16

for the Jones case. 17

A voting qualification practice or procedure violates 18

Section 2, if it results in minority voters having less 19

opportunity than other members of the electorate to participate 10:10 20

in the political process and to elect representatives of their 21

choice. That is true regardless of whether the law applies to 22

all voters. 23

You will hear testimony that voters of color 24

disproportionately lack the driver's licenses and state-issued 10:11 25

13



photo identification needed to vote under Act 23. 1

Plaintiffs will present expert testimony demonstrating 2

that among registered voters blacks are 40 percent more likely 3

than white voters to lack such identification, and the numbers 4

for Latinos are even more striking. Registered Latino voters 10:11 5

are at least the 2.3 times more likely than white voters to lack 6

a driver's license or state ID card. And those numbers do not 7

account for Wisconsin's 700,000 unregistered eligible voters who 8

the evidence will show are likewise disproportionately black and 9

Latino. 10:11 10

The state will argue that these disparities are not 11

legally meaningful because most Wisconsin voters have qualifying 12

photo IDs and, in any event, the state offers free IDs to people 13

who need them to vote. But that is cold comfort to the tens of 14

thousands of black and Latino voters who you will hear still 10:11 15

lack ID and, therefore, could not vote under Act 23. 16

And the state's data on who has obtained free IDs for 17

the purposes of voting reveal even more starkly how the burdens 18

of Act 23 fall disproportionately on voters of color. 19

You will hear that while blacks and Latinos together 10:12 20

comprise roughly 7 1/2 percent of Wisconsin's voting-age 21

population, they have obtained a combined total of over 45 22

percent of the free IDs issued since Act 23 originally took 23

effect. Those figures demonstrate that the percentages of 24

blacks and Latinos who lack acceptable ID under Act 23 vastly 10:12 25

14



exceed their combined share of the state's voting age 1

population. In other words, the state's own statistics will 2

demonstrate the disparate impact. 3

The numbers of people obtaining free IDs do not show 4

that Act 23's disparate impact on black and Latino voters is 10:12 5

being addressed by the free ID program, as the state will 6

suggest. To the contrary, you will hear expert testimony that 7

more than a year after the state began offering free IDs, 8

hundreds of thousands of registered voters still lack the 9

necessary ID to vote under Act 23 and that these voters are 10:13 10

still disproportionately black and Latino. 11

The state will argue that a bare statistical disparity 12

in the rates at which voters of different races lack qualifying 13

voter ID is not enough to prove a violation of Section 2. But 14

plaintiffs' case goes far beyond the statistics. 10:13 15

We are mindful of Judge Posner's admonition that the 16

Seventh Circuit's decision in Crawford might have come out 17

differently if the court had a more complete and reliable record 18

with respect to the adverse effects of the voter ID law being 19

considered there. We intend to provide that complete record to 10:13 20

this court. 21

You will hear testimony from individual voters of 22

color who were directly affected by Act 23 and community service 23

organizations that tried to help them meet the burdens imposed 24

by the law. These witnesses will tell you that Act 23's 10:14 25

15



requirements are difficult to comply with for many black and 1

Latino voters who lack qualifying ID. 2

In order to obtain an ID, a voter must present a 3

certified birth certificate in most instances. For some voters, 4

that involves the inconvenience of applying and paying $20 for a 10:14 5

Wisconsin birth certificate that they do not need except to 6

obtain a voter ID that complies with Act 23. 7

For those born outside Wisconsin, obtaining a birth 8

certificate is often more difficult, time-consuming, and costly. 9

They must contact government agencies in distant states or 10:14 10

territories to obtain certified birth records and some voters 11

literally have no birth certificate. These include elderly 12

black voters who were born at home in the rural south at a time 13

when it was not common practice to record black births. And you 14

will also hear about the special burden on voters born in Puerto 10:14 15

Rico where all birth certificates issued prior to July the 1st, 16

2010, were invalidated by statute three years ago. 17

Even voters who can obtain birth certificates face the 18

burdens of applying for an ID at DMV offices that are not open 19

in the evening or on weekends and are often difficult to reach 10:15 20

via public transportation. You will hear that these burdens 21

fall particularly hard on voters of color who may not be able to 22

take time off from work to apply for an ID. They are also less 23

likely to have the money to pay for a birth certificate, 24

transportation to the DMV, or the child care they may need to 10:15 25

16

November4,2013




arrange while they spend several hours traveling to and from the 1

DMV and applying for an ID. 2

The state's own witnesses will admit that the process 3

of obtaining a free ID is difficult, to say the least. And that 4

will be borne out by the testimony of several voters of color 10:15 5

who tried with varying degrees of success to obtain IDs when 6

Act 23 was in effect. They will tell stories of frustrating 7

attempts to deal with multiple bureaucracies, which often failed 8

to yield a birth certificate. 9

Some of these voters will testify that Wisconsin 10:16 10

officials finally decided to issue them a photo ID without a 11

birth certificate. That might be because a clerk or a 12

supervisor took pity on them. It might also be for some other 13

procedural reason that the witnesses may not even know. 14

Regardless, these exceptions reinforce the capricious nature of 10:16 15

the process, the inconsistent exercise of discretion by state 16

officials, and the complex and dysfunctional nature of an ID 17

system that ultimately decides who gets to vote under Act 23. 18

You will also hear from community service 19

organizations, including those that brought this litigation and 10:16 20

others. They will testify that they diverted significant 21

resources, including volunteer hours and scarce funding, to 22

helping voters of color in the communities they serve to comply 23

with Act 23. And they will have to do it again if the law goes 24

back into effect in the future. 10:16 25

17



They will also testify that their black and Latino 1

members are adversely affected by Act 23 in that they lack the 2

IDs necessary to vote and the time and the resources to obtain 3

them, even if they have the necessary birth certificates. 4

These witnesses will tell the Court about voters they 10:17 5

attempted to help, including many who ultimately were not able 6

to vote because they could not obtain an ID. 7

The Court will hear similar testimony from elected 8

officials in Wisconsin's black and Latino communities, including 9

JoCasta Zamarripa of Milwaukee and Kenneth Lumpkin of Racine. 10:17 10

These witnesses will also tell the Court about the 11

confusion that Act 23 has caused in communities of color that 12

further discourages minority participation. 13

The Court will hear that even after the law was 14

enjoined last March, minority voters still expressed the concern 10:17 15

that they would need ID to vote. And they were told the same 16

thing by poll workers who apparently shared in their confusion. 17

Finally, the Court will hear testimony about the 18

so-called Senate factors, a list of factors courts consider in 19

Section 2 cases to determine whether a particular voting 10:18 20

practice interacts with the conditions of minority political 21

participation in a way that results in the minority voters 22

having an unequal opportunity to participate in the political 23

process. 24

The state will tell you that these factors are not 10:18 25

18



relevant in a vote denial case, but they are central to the 1

Section 2 analysis in this case. They provide the context 2

within which the Court can determine whether a law like Act 23 3

which applies to all voters has a disproportionate impact on 4

voters of color. 10:18 5

Professor Barry Burden of the University of Wisconsin 6

will testify about the calculus of voting. Put simply, 7

Professor Burden will tell the Court that voter participation 8

depends on a cost-benefit analysis. Costs include the effort to 9

become more educated about an election and the candidates as 10:18 10

well as administrative and other barriers to registering and 11

casting a ballot. Benefits include seeing one's preferred 12

candidate win and the perception that government is responsive 13

to one's interests. 14

Professor Burden will review scholarship that 10:19 15

demonstrates how increasing the administrative costs of voting 16

has negative effects on minority voter turnout. And he will 17

testify that a voter ID requirement is just the sort of 18

additional administrative cost that will predictably depress 19

minority turnout in Wisconsin. He will tell the Court how the 10:19 20

Senate factors show that Wisconsin's voters of color are 21

particularly susceptible to being disproportionately burdened by 22

Act 23. 23

Professor Burden will review Wisconsin's long history 24

of discriminatory election practices, including a rule that only 10:19 25

19



required citizens to register to vote if they lived in counties 1

with more than 5,000 residents, which most white voters did and 2

most minority voters did not. The rule of 5,000 placed the 3

burden of registering disproportionately on Wisconsin's minority 4

voters and was not repealed until the passage of the Help 10:19 5

America Vote Act in 2006. 6

He will also explain how Wisconsin failed to provide 7

Spanish language ballots or election materials to the state's 8

growing Latino population until 2012, and even then it was only 9

done in Milwaukee County and only because it was compelled by an 10:20 10

order from the Department of Justice. 11

Professor Burden will demonstrate that Wisconsin's 12

blacks and Latinos are more highly concentrated in urban 13

neighborhoods than those in other states and that Milwaukee in 14

particular is one of the most segregated cities in the country. 10:20 15

Because they live in the urban core, Wisconsin's minorities tend 16

to use public transportation more, drive less, and have fewer 17

driver's licenses. That obviously affects their ability to vote 18

under Act 23. 19

He will testify that Wisconsin's minorities lag behind 10:20 20

white citizens in areas such as employment, income, poverty 21

rates, educational attainment, and healthcare measures such as 22

infant mortality, and that these disparities which affect both 23

the costs and the perceived benefits of voting are some of the 24

worst in the country. 10:21 25

20

November4,2013




Professor Burden will demonstrate how racial appeals 1

continue to be part of Wisconsin's political campaigns, 2

including in the attacks on the state's first African-American 3

Supreme Court Justice Louis Butler during his 2004 campaign, and 4

more recently through advertising and rhetoric challenging 10:21 5

candidates such as former Governor Doyle on the ground that they 6

support benefits for undocumented immigrants or a so-called 7

Milwaukee package of funding for services to urban residents of 8

this city. 9

Viewing these and other Senate factors through the 10:21 10

lens of the calculus of voting, Professor Burden will tell the 11

Court that minority voters in Wisconsin experience higher costs 12

of voting and perceive fewer benefits even without Act 23. 13

Accordingly, he will testify that adding a voter identification 14

requirement to the mix is likely to burden minority voters 10:21 15

disproportionately and to result in their having an even more 16

unequal ability to participate in the political process. 17

The state will tell the Court that even if Act 23 18

imposes additional burdens on some voters, it is justified 19

because the law protects against in-person voter fraud; that is, 10:22 20

people showing up at the polls impersonating someone else. The 21

major problem with that argument, as the state has admitted in 22

its discovery responses, is that Wisconsin has virtually no 23

problem with in-person voter fraud and never has. 24

Professor Lorraine Minnite of Rutgers University, who 10:22 25

21



is one of the nation's leading experts on voter fraud, will 1

confirm that admission. Professor Minnite will differentiate 2

between various types of election and voter fraud, most of which 3

do not involve voter impersonation and would not be addressed by 4

a voter ID law. 10:22 5

She will also review the reported cases of in-person 6

voter fraud in Wisconsin since 2004 and tell the Court that, at 7

most, one of them would have been identified by Act 23 and even 8

that one probably would not have been prevented. Act 23, she 9

will tell the Court, simply does not serve its purported purpose 10:23 10

of preventing a problem that does not really exist. 11

Meanwhile, the tenuousness of the state policy is the 12

final Senate factor that completes Dr. Burden's analysis. And 13

the policy underlying Act 23 is tenuous in many respects. 14

First, it is tenuous because the evidence will reveal 10:23 15

that in-person voter fraud is not a problem in Wisconsin and 16

Act 23 would not prevent it, in any event. 17

Second, it is tenuous because the statute represents a 18

marked departure from past electoral practices in Wisconsin, 19

which Dr. Burden will explain have consistently focused on 10:23 20

expanding the franchise. 21

Third, it is tenuous because it imposes identification 22

requirements that are even more stringent than those in other 23

states. Wisconsin thus imposes even stricter voter ID 24

requirements which negatively impact minority voters to an even 10:24 25

22



greater extent with no better justification for its voter ID 1

law. 2

And finally, the policy underlying Act 23 is tenuous 3

because the law includes what is effectively a grandfather 4

clause. You will hear that Act 23 requires voters without ID, 10:24 5

who are disproportionately black and Latino, to present birth 6

certificates in order to obtain a qualifying ID. 7

By contrast, voters who have ID, who are 8

disproportionately white, may continue to use them even if they 9

were obtained before birth certificates were required in order 10:24 10

to obtain a driver's license or state ID. If the birth 11

certificate requirement is supposedly necessary to prevent 12

fraud, why has Wisconsin exempted the majority of voters from 13

the requirements? 14

When the policy underlying a voting practice that 10:25 15

burdens minority voters is tenuous, that is important because it 16

suggests that the stated purpose of the law is a pretext for 17

some other motive; that the law was really intended to burden 18

minority voters, and that may well be the case with Act 23. 19

It also sends an unmistakable message to minority 10:25 20

voters that the State of Wisconsin is willing to sacrifice their 21

votes in the interest of preventing fraud that does not exist or 22

some unstated purpose like protecting the political interests of 23

those who voted for Act 23. Of course, that message only 24

increases burdens on minority voters and reinforces the 10:25 25

23

Opening Statement/Kawski


disenfranchising effects of the law. In other words, it 1

contributes to a totality of circumstances under which Act 23, 2

while neutral on its face, interacts with the conditions of 3

minority political participation in such a way that results in 4

blacks and Latinos having an unequal opportunity to participate 10:26 5

in Wisconsin's political process. 6

All of which leads me back to where I began, with the 7

name of this case. We proudly call it the Jones case. Bettye 8

Jones, who was the original lead plaintiff, died last fall, and 9

she can no longer serve as a litigant. As a result, the caption 10:26 10

of the case has formally changed to LULAC vs. Deininger. 11

But we have not forgotten Bettye Jones. She was a 12

real person, a voter, and a civil rights activist. And she was 13

nearly prevented from voting and continuing in her life-long 14

political participation by Act 23. But Mrs. Jones was too 10:26 15

strong for that. She stood up against this discriminatory law 16

and filed this lawsuit. And because she did, we are here today. 17

That is her story and this is her case, the Jones case. And we 18

thank you for hearing it. 19

DEFENDANT OPENING STATEMENT 10:28 20

MR. KAWSKI: May it please the Court. Good morning, 21

Your Honor. I'm assistant United States Attorney General Clay 22

Kawski from the Wisconsin Department of Justice. And with me as 23

co-counsel representing the defendants in these two cases are 24

Assistant Attorneys General Maria Lazar and Dan Lennington. 10:28 25

24

November4,2013




These cases concern the state's legitimate and 1

important interests in protecting the integrity of elections, 2

promoting citizen confidence in the electoral process, and 3

preventing and deterring voter fraud, thereby safeguarding the 4

effective and full exercise of the franchise for all Wisconsin 10:28 5

voters. 6

Plaintiffs in these two cases have filed legal 7

challenges under both the United States Constitution and 8

Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act of 1965. They allege that 9

the voter photo identification requirements in 2011 Wisconsin 10:28 10

Act 23 imposed a severe and unjustified burden on voters and 11

that the burden violates both the Constitution and the Voting 12

Rights Act. 13

The evidence that will be presented at trial will not 14

prove the plaintiffs' claims of severe widespread and 10:29 15

unjustified burdens caused by the voter photo ID law. Instead, 16

the evidence will show that the alleged burdens caused by Act 23 17

are not so severe and widespread as to require invalidating the 18

law either entirely or as to certain voters. 19

The state intends to present the following evidence: 10:29 20

First, the Court will hear from the state's expert 21

witness, Professor M.V. Hood III. Professor Hood is a tenured 22

professor from the University of Georgia who specializes in 23

academic research regarding election administration. He has 24

written about voter fraud and the impact of voter photo 10:29 25

25



indication laws on voters. 1

He's also studied the impact of implemented voter 2

photo ID laws, in particular in his state of Georgia. He 3

recently testified on behalf of the State of South Carolina in a 4

Voting Rights Act challenge to South Carolina's voter photo ID 10:29 5

law. That South Carolina law was upheld by a panel of three 6

federal judges and is currently in effect. 7

Professor Hood will testify regarding his estimate of 8

the number of registered Wisconsin voters that currently lack 9

either of two forms of Act 23 qualifying identification: a 10:30 10

state driver license and a state ID card. Keep in mind that 11

these are only two of the numerous forms of qualifying 12

identification in Wisconsin. 13

Professor Hood will offer his opinion regarding Act 23 14

and whether the available data permit an inference that there 10:30 15

will be a disparate impact on minority voters if Act 23 is 16

allowed to go into effect. This disparate impact analysis is 17

crucial to resolving plaintiffs' Voting Rights Act claim. 18

Defendants' position is that plaintiffs' evidence will 19

not meet their burden to demonstrate a racially disparate impact 10:30 20

on minority voters that results in the denial or abridgement of 21

their right to vote that is caused by Act 23. This is what 22

plaintiffs must show to prove their Voting Rights Act claim. 23

Professor Hood will also discuss his multiyear 24

research that he has previously conducted regarding the State of 10:31 25

26



Georgia, which implemented a voter photo ID law in 2008. 1

Because voter photo ID requirements have been fully implemented 2

in Georgia, Professor Hood has been able to do a 3

before-and-after comparison of the effect of voter photo ID 4

requirements, the sort of analysis that cannot be done in 10:31 5

Wisconsin because the law is currently enjoined in state court. 6

Professor Hood will describe how his studies of 7

Georgia found that even in years before voter photo ID 8

requirements were implemented, individuals who did not possess a 9

photo ID were less likely to turn out to vote than people who 10:31 10

did possess a photo ID. Therefore, a mere figure as to the 11

number of individuals who lack an acceptable form of photo ID 12

does not truly reflect the burden on voting rights. 13

In addition, Professor Hood will show that when the 14

Georgia voter photo ID law was implemented in 2008, voter 10:32 15

turnout was affected by only less than 1/2 of 1 percent. 16

Professor Hood will describe how his research in 17

Georgia found no disparate racial impact associated with the 18

implementation of the voter photo ID law. In fact, based on 19

voter turnout rates, the law actually had less of an impact on 10:32 20

minorities than it did on whites. 21

As you consider the testimony from Professor Hood and 22

the other experts in this case, one key fact should be in the 23

court's mind: Just because a voter in Wisconsin does not 24

currently have a qualifying ID does not mean that the voter is 10:32 25

27



incapable of ever getting a qualifying ID. 1

That is a key fact because the only credible and 2

reliable testimony that the Court will hear in this trial will 3

be regarding estimates of the number of voters that currently 4

lack certain forms of Act 23 qualifying ID. The Court will not 10:32 5

be presented with an evidentiary basis to conclude that the 6

voters that currently lack a form of Act 23 ID can never, ever 7

get a qualifying ID. 8

Your Honor, you will hear from a number of plaintiffs 9

and other fact witnesses regarding their attempts and 10:33 10

difficulties in obtaining a form of Act 23 ID. Many of these 11

individuals have had problems obtaining birth certificates, 12

which is one document that the Division of Motor Vehicles uses 13

to issue ID cards. 14

Take, for example, the lead plaintiff in the Frank 10:33 15

vs. Walker case, Ruthelle Frank. Mrs. Frank could obtain a free 16

state ID card for purposes of voting if she wanted to, but she 17

has testified in her deposition that she won't pay any money to 18

obtain a birth certificate out of principle. She just doesn't 19

think that she should have to. While she claims that there are 10:33 20

misspellings on her birth certificate, she has refused to obtain 21

a copy of it. She has never seen a copy of her birth 22

certificate, doesn't know what misspellings, if any, are 23

actually on her birth certificate. She has never presented her 24

birth certificate to the DMV. 10:34 25

28

November4,2013




Even after being informed by DMV staff that 1

independently reviewed her birth certificate that she would be 2

issued a state ID card for free, based upon that documentation, 3

she has still refused to return to the DMV to get her free ID 4

card. 10:34 5

Of the other plaintiffs that have been listed as 6

witnesses testifying live at trial, only two currently lack a 7

form of Act 23 ID. The others have all attained a free state ID 8

card, driver's license, U.S. passport, or another form of 9

qualifying ID since these two cases were filed. 10:34 10

Plaintiffs' own witnesses, including the plaintiffs 11

themselves, will prove that getting a form of qualifying ID to 12

vote under Act 23 is not problematic. 13

You will also hear testimony on behalf of defendants 14

from the Division of Motor Vehicles regarding the process of 10:34 15

obtaining a free state ID card. The process is simple and 16

straightforward. Even for these voters that have had difficulty 17

obtaining the underlying documents necessary to get a free ID 18

card, DMV has been able to accommodate them, create exceptions 19

for them, and otherwise assist them to get the underlying 10:35 20

documents necessary to obtain a free ID card. 21

Also you will hear how DMV has expanded its service 22

hours in response to Act 23 to ensure that every voter seeking a 23

state ID has access to the DMV. 24

Since summer 2011 when Act 23 was enacted, the DMV has 10:35 25

29



given out over 170,000 free ID cards. In Milwaukee County the 1

vast majority of those cards have been given to minority voters. 2

The free ID program is still in effect today, even though Act 23 3

has been enjoined in state court. 4

You will also hear testimony from witnesses with the 10:35 5

Wisconsin Government Accountability Board, the agency tasked 6

with implementing the vote ever photo ID law. You will hear 7

about how the Wisconsin legislature and Governor Walker approved 8

approximately $2 million in funds to implement the law and what 9

the Government Accountability Board did to use those funds to 10:36 10

educate voters, train election officials, update its election 11

administration systems, and otherwise make the public fully 12

aware of the requirements of Act 23. 13

GAB was an excellent steward of the funds that were 14

allocated for this project. Working with a marketing partner, 10:36 15

GAB developed the bring-it-to-the-ballot promotional campaign. 16

This campaign was a multimedia blitz intended to cover the 17

spectrum of different ways to reach voters and train election 18

officials to ensure that implementation of the law went off 19

seamlessly. 10:36 20

The Court will get the opportunity to see a sample of 21

some of the promotional materials, including the website that 22

was created to inform the public of the voter photo ID law and 23

to help voters get ID cards. The Court will see examples of 24

brochures, pamphlets, fliers, handbills, videos, advertisements, 10:36 25

30



a text messaging program, a 1-800 help line, and more. All of 1

these aspects of the bring-it-to-the-ballot campaign were 2

intended to ensure that voters in Wisconsin could comply with 3

the law and become aware of the simple steps to obtain a free ID 4

card. 10:37 5

You will also hear testimony from local election 6

officials that actually implemented the voter photo ID 7

requirements of Act 23. Photo identification was required for 8

one election in Wisconsin, the February 2012 primary election. 9

You will hear how there were virtually no problems in 10:37 10

implementing the law in that election. You will hear how local 11

election officials were able to train their staff to make sure 12

that things went smoothly at the polls in February 2012. 13

Finally, you will hear testimony regarding voter 14

fraud. Voter fraud is real. It is not a myth. Voter fraud 10:37 15

occurs in Wisconsin, and the state's witnesses will illustrate 16

some recent examples. 17

In particular, you will hear the testimony of Bruce 18

Landgraf, an assistant district attorney in Milwaukee County 19

that investigates and prosecutes election fraud cases. Election 10:38 20

fraud corrupts the election process and violates the fundamental 21

principle of one person, one vote. Mr. Landgraf will describe 22

the convictions he has recently obtained. 23

You will also hear testimony of a Milwaukee election 24

commissioner, Robert Spindell, and a retired City of Milwaukee 10:38 25

31



detective, Michael Sandvick, regarding their firsthand knowledge 1

of fraud in Milwaukee. 2

Based upon the evidence that will be presented over 3

the next two weeks, the Court is guided by the United States 4

Supreme Court's decision in Crawford vs. Marion County Election 10:38 5

Board. In that case, the Supreme Court held that where the 6

plaintiffs could not present sufficient evidence of a severe and 7

widespread burden, the court should apply a flexible balancing 8

test rather than strict scrutiny. 9

Act 23's broad application to all eligible voters in 10:38 10

Wisconsin should be considered, not just the unusual, atypical, 11

and peculiar isolated burdens experienced by a few. 12

These cases present two different types of claims. 13

The Frank case is a putative class action with numerous classes. 14

Your Honor, what the Frank plaintiffs are trying to do is have 10:39 15

the Court grant relief solely to the small percentage of people 16

in Wisconsin that do not currently have a form of Act 23 17

qualifying ID. 18

The Court should decline this invitation, both because 19

plaintiffs cannot demonstrate that they satisfy the class action 10:39 20

requirements of Rule 23 and because the law creates no 21

unconstitutional burden on the voting rights of the putative 22

classes. 23

The LULAC case, on the other hand, involves a claim to 24

fully invalidate Act 23 in light of Section 2 of the Voting 10:39 25

32

November4,2013




Rights Act. Plaintiffs will not meet their burden of 1

demonstrating that Act 23 causes a prohibited discriminatory 2

impact on minority voters in Wisconsin. It is not enough to 3

show that minorities are less likely to have a form of Act 23 ID 4

when those voters are capable of getting a form of Act 23 ID. 10:40 5

The defendants will present evidence showing that the 6

alleged burden imposed on -- by voter photo ID requirements are 7

neither sufficiently widespread nor sufficiently severe to 8

invalidate voter ID. Because the evidence that plaintiffs 9

present will fail to demonstrate that the law imposes overall 10:40 10

burdens on voting rights that outweigh the state's legitimate 11

interests in preventing and deterring fraud and ensuring the 12

integrity of elections, this court, applying the proper legal 13

standards, should conclude that the voter photo identification 14

requirement created by Act 23 is both constitutional and 10:40 15

consistent with the Voting Rights Act. 16

Thank you. 17

THE COURT: Thank you. Okay. First witness? 18

MR. EICHNER: Good morning, Your Honor. My name is 19

Jim Eichner, and I am one of the counsel for the LULAC 10:41 20

plaintiffs. And I call Alice Weddle to the stand. 21

ALICE WEDDLE, PLAINTIFF WITNESS, DULY SWORN 22

THE COURT: Okay. You gotta talk pretty close to that 23

mic, about an inch away. Kind of lean in. You can manipulate 24

the mic with your hand too. 10:41 25

33

Weddle/Direct


Go ahead. 1

DIRECT EXAMINATION2

BY MR. EICHNER: 3

Good morning, Ms. Weddle. 4 Q.

Good morning. 10:41 5 A.

Could you please state and spell your full name for the 6 Q.

record. 7

Alice Weddle. A-L-I-C-E, Weddle, W-E-D-D-L-E. 8 A.

And how old are you, Ms. Weddle? 9 Q.

59. 10:41 10 A.

Where do you live? 11 Q.

7035 West Silver Spring Drive. 12 A.

In Wisconsin? 13 Q.

Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 14 A.

And how long have you lived in Wisconsin? 10:41 15 Q.

49 years. 16 A.

And what race are you?17 Q.

African-American. 18 A.

Ms. Weddle, are you currently working? 19 Q.

No. 10:42 20 A.

Did you ever work? 21 Q.

Yes. 22 A.

What did you do? 23 Q.

I was a nurse's assistant at Milwaukee Jewish Home for 24 A.

14 years. I worked for Barbara Houseman in county court for 10:42 25

34

Weddle/Direct


nine years. I worked for Milwaukee Jewish Convocation Center, 1

and now I'm a cook. 2

When you were a cook, did you have any specialties, anything 3 Q.

you particularly liked to cook? 4

Yes. I cooked all kosher food. I cook strudels; I cook egg 10:42 5 A.

noodles strudels; I cook split pea soup; I cook a whole bunch of 6

food. 7

And have you cooked at other places? 8 Q.

No. 9 A.

And Ms. Weddle, are you a member of a church? 10:43 10 Q.

Yes. Cross Lutheran. 11 A.

How long have you been a member at Cross Lutheran? 12 Q.

For nine years. 13 A.

And do you attend services there? 14 Q.

Yes. 10:43 15 A.

Are those on Sunday? 16 Q.

Sundays, and Wednesdays I go there too. 17 A.

And besides going to services, do you do anything else at 18 Q.

Cross Lutheran? 19

I volunteer at the kitchen. I'm -- I'm also an usher at the 10:43 20 A.

church. 21

And when you volunteer in the kitchen, do you do cooking or 22 Q.

do you do something else? 23

I help set up bags for the hungry. 24 A.

And have you been a voting member of the church? 10:43 25 Q.

35

Weddle/Direct


Yes. 1 A.

Ms. Weddle, do you have a driver's license? 2 Q.

No. 3 A.

Have you ever had a driver's license? 4 Q.

No. 10:44 5 A.

Do you have a U.S. passport? 6 Q.

No. 7 A.

Do you have a U.S. military ID? 8 Q.

No. 9 A.

Do you have a naturalization certificate? 10:44 10 Q.

No. 11 A.

Do you have a tribal ID card? 12 Q.

No. 13 A.

Do you have a student ID card? 14 Q.

No. 10:44 15 A.

Do you have a nondriver state photo ID card? 16 Q.

No. 17 A.

Do you have any other type of ID with a -- 18 Q.

I have --19 A.

-- photo?20 Q.

-- a Wisconsin -- a state -- a county ID. 21 A.

Just let me finish the question, all right, just so we make 22 Q.

it easy for the court reporter. You're doing great. 23

Have you ever had a nondriver state photo ID card? 24

No. 10:44 25 A.

36

November4,2013


Weddle/Direct


Have you ever tried to get one? 1 Q.

Yes. 2 A.

When was that? 3 Q.

In 2005, I believe. 4 A.

And what happened when you tried to get that ID? 10:44 5 Q.

I didn't have a birth certificate. 6 A.

So where did you go to try and get the ID? 7 Q.

Motor vehicle. 8 A.

Okay. And when you got to motor vehicles, what happened? 9 Q.

They asked me did I have a birth certificates or anything 10:45 10 A.

stating who I were. And I said no, because I was born in 11

Mississippi. 12

Okay. And did you try and get a birth certificate from 13 Q.

Mississippi? 14

Yes. 10:45 15 A.

What did you have to do to try and get a birth certificate 16 Q.

from Mississippi? 17

They gave me a form at motor vehicle to send down to 18 A.

Mississippi to try and locate a birth certificate, which I 19

filled out and sent down there. And they sent it back in 10:45 20

15 days and said there was no such person. 21

And did you have to pay money to try and get the birth 22 Q.

certificate? 23

$10. 24 A.

Did you get your money back? 10:45 25 Q.

37

Weddle/Direct


No. 1 A.

And do you have any idea why they didn't have a record of 2 Q.

you? 3

Because I was -- I wasn't born in a hospital. 4 A.

Where were you born? 10:45 5 Q.

I was born at home by a midwife. 6 A.

Ms. Weddle, are you registered to vote in Wisconsin? 7 Q.

Yes. 8 A.

How long have you been registered to vote in Wisconsin? 9 Q.

Oh, about 25, 30 years. 10:46 10 A.

And have you ever worked at the polls in Wisconsin? 11 Q.

Yes, I did. 12 A.

When was that? 13 Q.

Last year. 14 A.

And what did you do? 10:46 15 Q.

I was helping people to sign in and, you know. 16 A.

And did you vote in the 2012 presidential election? 17 Q.

Yes, I did. 18 A.

And about how many years have you been voting? 19 Q.

Oh, a long time, about 25, 30 years. 10:46 20 A.

And what's the first candidate you remember voting for? 21 Q.

Oh, my God. President Carter. I voted for President 22 A.

Carter, President -- I can't remember. It's been a long time 23

ago. 24

That's fine. And how frequently have you voted between when 10:46 25 Q.

38

Weddle/Direct


you first voted and when you voted in the presidential election? 1

I voted in all the elections. 2 A.

And what about the February 2012 primary election? Do you 3 Q.

remember if you voted in that one? 4

Yes, I did. 10:47 5 A.

So you voted in that election? 6 Q.

Yes. 7 A.

Okay. Is voting important to you? 8 Q.

Yes, it is. Very important to me. 9 A.

Why is that? 10:47 10 Q.

Because it makes a difference. Every vote count. If my 11 A.

vote can make a difference, I'm going to, you know, keep voting 12

or keep going out to find a way to vote. 13

And how would you feel if you couldn't vote because you 14 Q.

didn't have the ID that was required under the photo ID law? 10:47 15

I'd be totally lost because I've been voting ever since I 16 A.

was old enough to vote. But if I don't have an ID, if the law 17

passes where you got to have an ID and I can't get one, then I'm 18

just -- don't know what I will do. 19

MR. EICHNER: Thank you, Ms. Weddle. I have no 10:47 20

further questions. 21

THE WITNESS: Thank you. 22

CROSS-EXAMINATION23

BY MR. KAWSKI: 24

Good morning, Ms. Weddle. 10:48 25 Q.

39

Weddle/Cross


Good morning. 1 A.

Just have a few questions for you. You said you had voted 2 Q.

in the February of 2012 primary election. 3

Yes. 4 A.

Were you asked to show an ID for that election? 10:48 5 Q.

No. 6 A.

Where do you vote? 7 Q.

I vote at the school on 68th Street near my house on Silver 8 A.

Spring. 9

Okay. Have you ever driven a car in Wisconsin? 10:48 10 Q.

Yes. 11 A.

But you said you don't have a driver license. 12 Q.

No, I don't have one. 13 A.

Have you ever left the United States? 14 Q.

No. 10:48 15 A.

Are you currently receiving any Social Security benefits? 16 Q.

Yes. 17 A.

Do you have a Social Security card? 18 Q.

Yes. 19 A.

Are you receiving any Medicare, Medicaid benefits? 10:48 20 Q.

Yes. 21 A.

And how did you apply for those benefits? 22 Q.

I applied -- well, my mom first applied for me before she 23 A.

died. And then I go -- now I just -- they don't ask me for no 24

ID. 10:49 25

40

November4,2013


Weddle/Cross


You do have a card that allows you to get those benefits? 1 Q.

Yes. 2 A.

You mentioned that you had gone to the DMV in 2005 to get an 3 Q.

ID; is that right? 4

Yes. 10:49 5 A.

Have you gone back to the DMV since that time? 6 Q.

No. 7 A.

Do you have a savings account? 8 Q.

No. 9 A.

Any other kind of account or credit card? 10:49 10 Q.

No. 11 A.

Have you ever been on an airplane? 12 Q.

No. 13 A.

Have you ever voted by absentee ballot? 14 Q.

No. 10:49 15 A.

MR. KAWSKI: I have no further questions. Thank you. 16


THE COURT: I believe you're excused. Thank you. 18

(Witness excused at 10:49 a.m.) 19

THE COURT: Next witness? 10:49 20

EDDIE HOLLOWAY, PLAINTIFF WITNESS, DULY SWORN 21

THE COURT: Have a seat. State your name for the 22

record, spell your last name. And you gotta talk about an inch 23

from the mic. 24

THE WITNESS: My name is Eddie Holloway, 10:50 25

41

Holloway/Direct


H-O-L-L-O-W-A-Y.1

DIRECT EXAMINATION2

BY MR. YOUNG: 3

Good morning, Mr. Holloway. My name is Sean Young. I'm one 4 Q.

of the counsel for plaintiffs. 10:50 5

Good morning, Mr. Holloway. 6

How are you doing. 7 A.

What is your race? 8 Q.

Black. 9 A.

And what city do you live in? 10:50 10 Q.

Milwaukee. 11 A.

Why did you move to Milwaukee? 12 Q.

I was homeless in Decatur and my sister sent for me. 13 A.

And what state is Decatur in? 14 Q.

Decatur, Illinois. 10:51 15 A.

Have you voted in Milwaukee? 16 Q.

Yes. 17 A.

Do you remember when? 18 Q.

2012. 19 A.

Do you remember which elections you voted in in 2012? 10:51 20 Q.

Presidential election. 21 A.

THE COURT: Why don't you pull the mic a little closer 22

to you. 23

THE WITNESS: Sorry. 24

THE COURT: There you go. 10:51 25

42

Holloway/Direct


BY MR. YOUNG: 1

Could you repeat that again? 2 Q.

The Presidential election. 3 A.

Do you remember if you voted in any other elections? 4 Q.

That was my first one here. 10:51 5 A.

And did you vote in Illinois? 6 Q.

Yes. 7 A.

Were you involved in elections in Illinois in any other way? 8 Q.

I was an election judge. 9 A.

And do you want to vote in the future? 10:51 10 Q.

Yes. 11 A.

When were you born? 12 Q.

March the 30th, 1958. 13 A.

And where were you born? 14 Q.

Decatur, Illinois. 10:51 15 A.

How many years of school do you have? 16 Q.

Well, I went 12. 17 A.

And what was your father's name? 18 Q.

Eddie Lee Holloway. 19 A.

And what is the name you've always gone by? 10:52 20 Q.

Eddie Lee Holloway, Jr. 21 A.

What is the name that was put on your birth certificate? 22 Q.

Eddie Junior Holloway. 23 A.

And what's the name that's on your Social Security card? 24 Q.

Eddie Lee Holloway, Jr. 10:52 25 A.

43

Holloway/Direct


Do you have an ID from any other state before you came to 1 Q.

Wisconsin? 2

My Illinois ID, yes. 3 A.

Is that Illinois ID expired? 4 Q.

Yes. 10:52 5 A.

What is the name on that ID? 6 Q.

Eddie Lee Holloway, Jr. 7 A.

And was there a time when you heard about the voter ID law 8 Q.

in Wisconsin? 9

Yeah. When I first got here. 10:52 10 A.

And what do you know about it? 11 Q.

That you have to have -- all I know is that you had to have 12 A.

an ID to vote. And I didn't understand that because I had never 13

had to have an ID before. 14

Did you -- when you say you had never had to have an ID 10:52 15 Q.

before, do you mean -- 16

To vote. 17 A.

In order to vote? 18 Q.

Yeah. 19 A.

And when you learned that you needed an ID to vote at that 10:52 20 Q.

time, did you have an ID to vote? 21

No. My ID had expired. 22 A.

And when you said your ID, which? 23 Q.

My Illinois ID had expired, because I was using it. 24 A.

And was there a time when you tried to get an ID in 10:53 25 Q.

44

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Wisconsin? 1

Yeah. I went to the DMV. 2 A.

And what did the DMV tell you? 3 Q.

They said I had two identities. 4 A.

Let me back up for a second. 10:53 5 Q.

When you went to the DMV, did you bring anything with 6

you? 7

My birth certificate, my ID. Yeah, that was it. 8 A.

And when you say your ID, do you mean -- 9 Q.

My birth certificate and my Social Security card. All of 10:53 10 A.

that. 11

And do you remember where the DMV was located? 12 Q.

Isn't that on Mill Road? 13 A.

And do you remember how you got there? 14 Q.

Caught the bus. I could walk better then. 10:53 15 A.

And so you brought your birth certificate, your Social 16 Q.

Security card, and your expired Illinois ID. 17

Right. 18 A.

And what did the DMV tell you? 19 Q.

I had two identities. 10:54 20 A.

What did they say to you? Can you tell me a little bit 21 Q.

more? 22

Well, the lady said that with the birth certificate and the 23 A.

ID, that means that I have two identities. Not the same person. 24

That's the way I took it. 10:54 25

45

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And did the person at the DMV tell you what you had to do to 1 Q.

fix this problem? 2

Yeah. The lady helped me -- she told me to go downtown 3 A.

to -- 4

Downtown Milwaukee? 10:54 5 Q.

Yeah, downtown Milwaukee to -- I forgot what they call it. 6 A.

That's okay. If you don't remember, you don't have to say. 7 Q.

Yeah. 8 A.

So she told you to go downtown. Did she do anything else to 9 Q.

help you fix this problem? 10:54 10

She gave me the number down there and where it was and -- 11 A.

yeah, that's -- she gave me at the DMV. 12

And after the -- you went to the DMV, did you go downtown? 13 Q.

Yeah, I went down there. 14 A.

How did you get downtown? 10:55 15 Q.

My sister, she took me down there this time. 16 A.

How did she take you down there? 17 Q.

In her car. 18 A.

Do you drive? 19 Q.

No. 10:55 20 A.

And when you went to downtown Milwaukee, what did they tell 21 Q.

you? 22

I went and asked for, you know, what I need to do to get an 23 A.

ID. And they said that I needed to call Springfield. That's 24

the state capitol in Illinois. Call Springfield, and I 10:55 25

46

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needed -- first I needed to amend my birth certificate. 1

Did they tell you how much that would cost? 2 Q.

They said four to $600. 3 A.

Do you have four to $600? 4 Q.

I don't have four to 600 cents. 10:56 5 A.

How much money were you taking in at that time? 6 Q.

I wasn't -- I was -- I really wasn't taking in money. My 7 A.

sister would help me because I took care of her twins. 8

So it was for baby-sitting? 9 Q.

Yeah. 10:56 10 A.

So after they -- downtown Milwaukee told you about 11 Q.

Illinois --12

Yeah. 13 A.

-- did you contact the Illinois office? 14 Q.

Yes, I called Illinois. 10:56 15 A.

And what did they tell you first? 16 Q.

First they told me that I needed to get the amendment papers 17 A.

to amend my birth certificate. So I caught the bus, went down 18

there -- 19

Went down where? 10:56 20 Q.

To Decatur, Illinois. 21 A.

How much does it cost to get down there? 22 Q.

$180 roundtrip. 23 A.

And how long does it take to get down there? 24 Q.

7 to 8 hours. 10:56 25 A.

47

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One way 7 to 8 hours? 1 Q.

Yeah. 2 A.

So after you went to Illinois, what happened? 3 Q.

Okay. I got the amendment papers, filled it out, took them 4 A.

to Springfield. Then when I got to Springfield, they said I 10:57 5

needed my high school records, vaccination. And I had my Social 6

Security card and my birth certificate. So that's what I needed 7

to get -- 8

I'm sorry to interrupt you. 9 Q.

Uh-huh. 10:57 10 A.

Did you have your vaccination records? 11 Q.

No. 12 A.

Do you know where they are? 13 Q.

No. 14 A.

Did the Springfield office tell you about the school or 10:57 15 Q.

vaccination records before that time? 16

No. That's when -- the second -- when I went there, they 17 A.

told me that's what I needed. So I had to come back home 18

first -- I mean come here. 19

And "here," you mean Milwaukee? 10:57 20 Q.

Yeah. 21 A.

Did you end up trying to get your school records? 22 Q.

I got the money back up to go back down there, and that's 23 A.

when I got my school records. 24

And when you say "back down there," do you mean Decatur, 10:57 25 Q.

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Illinois? 1

Decatur. 2 A.

So you got your school records. 3 Q.

Yes. 4 A.

And then what did you do with them? 10:58 5 Q.

They're right there. 6 A.

After you got your school records from Decatur, Illinois --7 Q.

I took them back to Springfield. 8 A.

How did you get to Springfield? 9 Q.

I had some friends from church take me. 10:58 10 A.

How did they take you? 11 Q.

In the car. 12 A.

Did you do anything else -- did you give your friends 13 Q.

anything for the ride? 14

Yeah. I gave them gas money to get there. 10:58 15 A.

Do you remember around how much that was? 16 Q.

They didn't charge me nothing but $20. That was it. 17 A.

So when you got to Springfield with your school records --18 Q.

Uh-huh. 19 A.

-- what happened? 10:58 20 Q.

I went and showed them what I had. Then they said I needed 21 A.

something else. 22

And what was that something else? 23 Q.

I needed a statement from the Social Security office. 24 A.

Did they tell you about the statement from the Social 10:58 25 Q.

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Security before? 1

Each time I went down there, they told me one extra thing 2 A.

that I needed. 3

So -- and did you have your Social Security statement with 4 Q.

you? 10:59 5

No. I had to come back here and get it. 6 A.

Before you came back here -- before you came back to 7 Q.

Milwaukee --8

Uh-huh. 9 A.

-- do you remember if you did anything else in Illinois to 10:59 10 Q.

try and get an ID? 11

I went to the DMV in Illinois too. 12 A.

What did you do there? 13 Q.

I showed them what I had, and they said I needed -- 14 A.

everything that I needed for to get my one here, I needed the 10:59 15

same thing to get it there. 16

Did you get a new Illinois ID? 17 Q.

No. 18 A.

When you came back to Milwaukee, did you try to get the 19 Q.

Social Security statement that Springfield asked for? 10:59 20

I got two of them. 21 A.

Why did you get two? 22 Q.

To make sure I had everything I needed. 23 A.

And did you take the Social Security statement back to 24 Q.

Illinois? 10:59 25

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I don't have money to get there yet. 1 A.

How much money are you taking in right now? 2 Q.

775. 3 A.

And what is that from? 4 Q.

Disability. 11:00 5 A.

And did you ever call Springfield to see if you could just 6 Q.

mail documents to them? 7

No. You can't mail them; you can't fax them; you can't do 8 A.

none of that. 9

Is that what they told you? 11:00 10 Q.

Yes. 11 A.

So sitting here today, do you have a new birth certificate 12 Q.

with the correct name? 13

No. 14 A.

And do you have a Wisconsin ID? 11:00 15 Q.

No. 16 A.

Do you have a Wisconsin driver's license? 17 Q.

No. 18 A.

Do you have a military ID? 19 Q.

No. 11:00 20 A.

Do you have a tribal ID from an Indian tribe? 21 Q.

No. 22 A.

Do you have a college ID? 23 Q.

No. 24 A.

Do you have a U.S. passport? 11:00 25 Q.

51

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No.1 A.

MR. YOUNG: Thank you very much. 2

DIRECT EXAMINATION3

BY MR. LENNINGTON: 4

Good morning, Mr. Holloway. 11:00 5 Q.

How you doing. 6 A.

I'm Dan Lennington. I'm one of the attorneys for the 7 Q.

defendants. 8

You said you had to get two of something. What was 9

that? 11:01 10

I got two of everything they said I needed. 11 A.

And before you went down to Illinois, did you call ahead to 12 Q.

see what you needed to bring? 13

Yeah. 14 A.

And what did they tell you that you had to bring? 11:01 15 Q.

First time they told me I needed the amendment papers. So I 16 A.

went to Decatur and got them and I took them over there. And I 17

didn't call them back, you know, after that. I just when I got 18

what I needed, I took it down there, you know. And then each 19

time I went down there, they told me it was one more thing that 11:01 20

I needed. 21

Now, do you have any form of identification right now that 22 Q.

has your picture on it? 23

Yeah. My ID I mean it's not valid, but that's all I got. 24 A.

This is your Illinois driver's license? 11:01 25 Q.

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Right. 1 A.

Do you have anything else with your picture on it? 2 Q.

Uh-uh. 3 A.

That's a no? 4 Q.

No. 11:01 5 A.

And how did you get your Illinois driver's license? 6 Q.

I got it when I was in school. I had them all these years. 7 A.

And you had that renewed over the years? 8 Q.

Uh-huh, until I got a DUI and that was the end of driving so 9 A.

I just got an ID. 11:02 10

And when was that? 11 Q.

Oh, Lord, that's about 20 years ago. 12 A.

And about when did you move to Wisconsin? 13 Q.

Five years ago. It will be six years March 18th. 14 A.

And when you went to the DMV the first time here in 11:02 15 Q.

Wisconsin, you brought a birth certificate. That's right? 16

Right. 17 A.

And you brought your Illinois state ID card. That's 18 Q.

correct? 19

Right. 11:02 20 A.

And you brought a Social Security card, right? 21 Q.

Right. 22 A.

And you talked to -- how many people did you talk to at DMV? 23 Q.

One person. She said 400 to $600. I was done with all of 24 A.

it. 11:02 25

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Do you have a bank account, Mr. Holloway? 1 Q.

No. 2 A.

Do you receive government benefits? 3 Q.

Disability. Yeah. 4 A.

Social Security disability? 11:03 5 Q.

Yeah. That's what they said. 6 A.

Are you on Medicaid or BadgerCare? 7 Q.

No. 8 A.

Do you receive any FoodShare? 9 Q.

If they keep cutting them, I probably won't get any. 11:03 10 A.

When did you first apply for FoodShare? 11 Q.

When I first got here, five years ago. 12 A.

And did you need to go somewhere physically to apply for 13 Q.

FoodShare? 14

Yeah. I had to go over there on -- where the Y is. Where 11:03 15 A.

they let people sleep at night. 16

So somewhere in Milwaukee here? 17 Q.

Yeah. 18 A.

And what did you need to bring to get your FoodShare? 19 Q.

I just -- my ID was valid then, so that's all I needed was 11:03 20 A.

my ID. 21

Your ID was valid when you first applied for FoodShare? 22 Q.

Uh-huh. 23 A.

And that was what year again? 24 Q.

Oh, boy. I don't know exactly what year it was. But it's 11:03 25 A.

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been five years, I know that. 1

I'm sorry? 2 Q.

Five years. 3 A.

In the last five years. 4 Q.

Yeah. 11:04 5 A.

Have you received any unemployment benefits while you've 6 Q.

been here in Wisconsin? 7

No. 8 A.

Have you traveled on a plane in your life? 9 Q.

No. 11:04 10 A.

MR. LENNINGTON: That's all I have. Thank you. 11

THE WITNESS: You're welcome. 12

THE COURT: Thank you. You're excused. 13


MR. CURTIS: Good morning, Your Honor. I'm Charles 11:04 15

Curtis, one of the lawyers for the LULAC plaintiffs. We would 16

like to call Debra Crawford. 17

DEBRA CRAWFORD, PLAINTIFF WITNESS, DULY SWORN 18

THE CLERK: Okay. Have a seat. State your name for 19

the record, spell your last name, and you gotta talk about an 11:05 20

inch from the mic. 21

THE WITNESS: I'm pretty loud, Your Honor. My name is 22

Debra Crawford. That's C-R-A-W-F-O-R-D, D-E-B-R-A. 23

DIRECT EXAMINATION24

BY MR. CURTIS: 11:05 25

55

Crawford/Direct


Good morning, Ms. Crawford. 1 Q.

Good morning. 2 A.


I live in Waukesha County, Brookfield, Wisconsin. 4 A.

What is your occupation? 11:05 5 Q.

I'm self-employed as a coaching consultant. 6 A.

How long have you lived in Wisconsin? 7 Q.

Over 14 years. 8 A.

Where are you from originally? 9 Q.

I'm from Cleveland, Ohio. 11:05 10 A.

You were born and raised there? 11 Q.

I was. 12 A.

Who were your mother and your father? 13 Q.

Bettye and Wilton Jones, Sr. 14 A.

And for the record, could you spell each of their first 11:06 15 Q.

names? 16

My mother's name is Bettye, B-E-T-T-Y-E, and my father's 17 A.

name was Wilton, W-I-L-T-O-N. 18

And for the record, were both of your parents 19 Q.

African-American? 11:06 20

They were. 21 A.

Where were each of your parents originally from? 22 Q.

My mother was born in Jackson, Tennessee, and my father was 23 A.

born in Cleveland, Ohio. 24

Was your mother the same Bettye Jones who was the lead 11:06 25 Q.

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November4,2013


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plaintiff in one of the lawsuits we're trying here today? 1

I'm proud to say that she is. 2 A.

When was your mother born? 3 Q.

She was born on April 12th, 1935. 4 A.

And where was she born again? 11:06 5 Q.

In Jackson, Tennessee. 6 A.

Did she ever have a birth certificate? 7 Q.

Never. 8 A.

Did she or other family members ever explain why she didn't 9 Q.

have a birth certificate? 11:07 10

She, like many people of color who were born in the 11 A.

segregated South, people coincidentally never bothered to 12

register her birth or lost it or whatever. They never had one. 13

Prior to the time that your mother moved to Wisconsin, did 14 Q.

your mom ever try to obtain a birth certificate from Tennessee? 11:07 15

She did, actually. And she produced that record and used 16 A.

that many times. In 1993, she sought some evidence of her birth 17

from the State of Tennessee. 18

(Document tendered to the witness.) 19

THE WITNESS: Thank you. 11:07 20

MR. CURTIS: Your Honor, I've just handed Ms. Crawford 21

LULAC Plaintiffs' Exhibit 393. 22

BY MR. CURTIS:23

And, Ms. Crawford, just referring to page 1 of this packet, 24 Q.

is this the 1993 document you just mentioned? 11:08 25

57

Crawford/Direct


Yes, it is. It's a copy of the document that my mother 1 A.

presented to me. 2

MR. KAWSKI: Your Honor, if we may, we're just 3

grabbing the binder with that exhibit so we can look along. 4

THE COURT: Okay. 11:08 5

(Brief pause.) 6

BY MR. CURTIS:7

So your mother was born in Tennessee. How did she wind up 8 Q.

in Cleveland? 9

My grandmother birthed nine children, and she died giving 11:08 10 A.

birth to my last uncle. And at that time the children were all 11

sent to live with relatives. My mother was sent to live with a 12

great aunt in Cleveland. 13

MR. CURTIS: Your Honor, are you able to hear okay? 14

Volume okay? 11:08 15

THE COURT: Yeah, I can. 16

THE WITNESS: Do I need to adjust further? 17

THE COURT: It's good to be as close as you can. I'm 18

fine. Go ahead. 19

THE WITNESS: Is that better? Okay. 11:08 20

BY MR. CURTIS:21

I know it's better for me. Thank you, Ms. Crawford. 22 Q.

Sure. 23 A.

So how old was your mother when she moved to Cleveland? 24 Q.

She was 12. Junior high. 11:09 25 A.

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Crawford/Direct


And did she later meet your dad there? 1 Q.

She did. 2 A.

They were married there? 3 Q.

They were. 4 A.

Raised you and your siblings there? 11:09 5 Q.

They did. 6 A.

How long did your mom live in Cleveland? 7 Q.

Well, well over 50 years. She lived there until my father 8 A.

passed away in 2011. And at that time I went to bring her to 9

relocate her to live with me and my husband here in Wisconsin to 11:09 10

better care for her. 11

Do you recall when you brought your mother to live with you 12 Q.

in Wisconsin? 13

Coincidentally, the anniversary of our date is today. 14 A.

November 4th, 2011, we drove ten hours to get here to relocate 11:09 15

her. 16

Were your mother and father regular voters? 17 Q.

Absolutely. Always. 18 A.

What did they teach you about voting? 19 Q.

That it was more than a right. That it was a 11:09 20 A.

responsibility. And that people had fought and died and lost 21

blood for us to have the right to exercise that right to vote 22

here in the United States of America, and that we had a 23

responsibility to exercise our civil responsibility as citizens 24

to vote. And it was emphatically reinforced, and we certainly 11:10 25

59

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have adhered to their requirement. 1

Were your parents involved in the civil rights movement? 2 Q.

They were. They were at the grassroots level. My sister 3 A.

and I can recall people in our home, phone calls being made, 4

church meetings, and various community activities as my parents 11:10 5

were quiet leaders in their own right working with neighbors in 6

our community to try to gather together a collective voice so 7

that they would be able to actively be involved and engaged in 8

the election process, particularly as it relates to the election 9

of the first black mayor of Cleveland, Mayor Carl Stokes. They 11:10 10

were really proud of their involvement in that. 11

After your mother moved here to live with you in 12 Q.

November 2011, did she plan to vote here in Wisconsin? 13

Without a doubt. We were eagerly discussing it, even in the 14 A.

ride there, what we would need to do to make sure that she 11:11 15

established her residency in accordance with whatever the laws 16

in Wisconsin were as soon as possible so that we would be 17

well-positioned for the upcoming then presidential election. 18

Did your mother register to vote? 19 Q.

Yes, she registered to vote. 11:11 20 A.

And that was in Waukesha County? 21 Q.

In Waukesha County. 22 A.

Did Act 23 have any impact on your mother's plans to vote 23 Q.

here in Wisconsin? 24

Without a doubt. Most assuredly. Were surprised to find 11:11 25 A.

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that when we left in early December shortly after her arrival to 1

quickly establish a residency and to make sure that we did 2

everything that we needed to do, that when we arrived at the DMV 3

in Waukesha County that we were presented with the stringent 4

requirement that didn't seem to be an issue in Ohio that she 11:12 5

would have to produce a birth certificate. 6

And at that point, I shared with them that she had 7

never had a birth certificate nor was that ever a problem in her 8

being able to vote in prior elections. At that point, they gave 9

me a list of requirements that we would have to -- we would have 11:12 10

to satisfy in order for her to have the opportunity to vote here 11

in the State of Wisconsin in the upcoming election. 12

Now, just to clarify, so you and your mother were told by 13 Q.

someone at the DMV in Waukesha that she would need to get a 14

birth certificate. 11:12 15

That's correct. I completed the initial forms, and when I 16 A.

went to present the forms so that we could complete the process, 17

I was stopped when they asked us to produce a birth certificate. 18

Now, did you tell the officials there that your mother had 19 Q.

received this official document from Tennessee that we refer to 11:13 20

at page 1 on LULAC Plaintiffs' Exhibit 193? 21

I did. I shared with them, thinking that would be not a 22 A.

problem. I said: This has never been a problem, and she has a 23

letter, an official letter that we can produce for you from her 24

original state of birth which would confirm that she does not 11:13 25

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have a birth certificate on record. 1

Now, was that in the same trip, the first trip, or did you 2 Q.

have to go back? 3

That was the first trip. Because at that point, I went to 4 A.

go produce that document, hoping that that would satisfy the 11:13 5

requirement along with several other pieces of identification. 6

Not in isolation, but that along with a photo ID from the State 7

of Ohio and many other forms of ID which -- or proof of 8

residency. 9

So you made a second trip --11:13 10 Q.

I did. 11 A.

-- to the DMV and gave the people there the Tennessee letter 12 Q.

we've referred to. 13

Uh-huh, yes, I did. 14 A.

Did that do the trick? 11:13 15 Q.

No, it did not. At this point, I was -- certainly I was 16 A.

expressing, you know, frustration around what could we possibly 17

do to help satisfy this requirement to prove that she is who she 18

has always been and that has been satisfactory in other 19

elections. And at that point they said there was nothing I 11:14 20

could do other than to go and pursue a state search to see if we 21

could find that record. 22

Ms. Crawford, have you seen LULAC Exhibit 393 before today? 23 Q.

I have. 24 A.

Can you describe for the Court what this exhibit consists 11:14 25 Q.

62

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of? 1

I captured all of my steps along the way in trying to 2 A.

produce the documentation which the State of Wisconsin was 3

requiring for my mother to vote. And this is documentation that 4

I have. 11:15 5

This letter is the second letter. It's a duplicate 6

letter from the one that I produced initially from 1993, 7

following a request by the State of Tennessee where I personally 8

asked them to conduct a thorough search. And they once again 9

sent a letter officially indicating that there was and never has 11:15 10

been any record of her birth. And this is the second letter 11

stating that same. 12

So as we talk about the steps you went through --13 Q.

Yes. 14 A.

-- and you refer to documents, the Court will be able to 11:15 15 Q.

find those documents in LULAC Exhibit 393. 16

They will. 17 A.

So after your two trips to the DMV, what did you and your 18 Q.

mother do next? 19

We began the search. I said, well, listen, the upcoming 11:15 20 A.

election is coming. Because my mother was very concerned. She 21

asked me what does this mean now that she had moved to 22

Wisconsin? Does this mean that she would not have the right to 23

vote in the presidential election? And I said to her it seems 24

to me, based on what I can interpret and understand from this 11:16 25

63

Crawford/Direct


Act 23, that unless we are able to produce this documentation 1

that she, in fact, for the first time in her adult life she 2

would not be able to vote in the upcoming general election, 3

presidential election. 4

So what was the first step -- 11:16 5 Q.

I contacted the State of Tennessee yet again, and I was then 6 A.

redirected by their website that I could contact a special 7

service called Vital Check. 8

Could you repeat that? What's the name of it? 9 Q.

It's called Vital Check. 11:16 10 A.

This is a service that I located when I contacted the 11

state when I was redirected that if we were searching for 12

records of birth that we would utilize this particular service. 13

So I paid the costs and completed the necessary documentation to 14

begin the search. 11:16 15

You said you paid the cost. What did they charge you? 16 Q.

I had a combined fee with postage and the search process of 17 A.

over $51 just to begin the process. 18

And those receipts are in the -- in Exhibit 393? 19 Q.

Yes. I've retained those and produced those, yes. 11:17 20 A.

So what happened? You paid them your money and they 21 Q.

produced the birth certificate? 22

They did not. They came back yet again. And after several 23 A.

days I got a message that said there's a problem. You need to 24

produce more information. We can -- we cannot complete this 11:17 25

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process. You need to contact someone specifically directly at 1

the state. 2

I then began making phone calls, and they came up 3

with, once again, there is no record of her birth and that I 4

would need to begin a process, if we elected to, to create 11:17 5

something called a delayed birth certificate. And at that point 6

I requested the necessary documentation, spoke to the 7

appropriate people, and then began the arduous and 8

time-consumptive process of pursuing a delayed birth certificate 9

for my mother. 11:18 10

Let me ask you, Ms. Crawford. Could you turn to page 21 in 11 Q.

LULAC Exhibit 393. 12

MR. CURTIS: And for opposing counsel and the Court, 13

we have Bates-stamped or numbered the documents at the bottom 14

just for ease of reference. 11:18 15

THE WITNESS: Yes. I have page 21. 16

BY MR. CURTIS: 17

Could you describe that document for the Court? 18 Q.

I can. After having some conversations with representatives 19 A.

within the State of Tennessee, I spoke with a Sandra Stafford 11:18 20

and she shared with me that after a search that I had ordered -- 21

she confirmed that I had ordered the birth certificate from the 22

office of vital records and that they were not able to locate 23

the document. 24

She says it is not unusual to find that the birth name 11:18 25

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may be different than that which was submitted or that the birth 1

year may have even been different. So she recommended that I 2

expand the search to include possible misspelling of names 3

and/or different years. 4

And I produced and provided the attached list of 11:19 5

information that she requested in order for us to begin the next 6

step in the process. 7

And when you were just -- you were reading from that 8 Q.

document. 9

Yes. 11:19 10 A.

Was that a quote? 11 Q.

That was a quote. 12 A.

Okay. And you mentioned a -- I forgot the term you used, 13 Q.

delayed birth certificate? 14

That's correct. 11:19 15 A.

Okay. And did that cost money? 16 Q.

Absolutely. The request for that was, I believe -- I don't 17 A.

know if it was $40 with the postage, but yet again there was 18

another fee, in addition to making sure that I certified the 19

documents. And in addition to indirect costs like gas and 11:19 20

notaries and so forth, we began this process. 21

Could I ask you to turn to page 11 in the exhibit, and could 22 Q.

you identify that document, Ms. Crawford. 23

Yes, I can. This is the list of documentations. In 24 A.

addition to what the DMV required, this is what I needed from 11:20 25

66

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the State of Wisconsin in order to show them that my mother 1

could prove her identity. So this is the list of requirements 2

that I now had to satisfy for the State of Tennessee in addition 3

to Wisconsin. 4

I was just going to say, you mentioned State of Wisconsin. 11:20 5 Q.

But this was for Tennessee? 6

Tennessee, yup. 7 A.

To get the delayed birth certificate from Tennessee. 8 Q.

Yes. 9 A.

Could you just mention some of the kinds of proof that you 11:20 10 Q.

were asked to obtain? 11

In order to file for a delayed certificate of birth, we need 12 A.

proof of full name of the person, date of birth, the names of 13

their parents, their place of birth, school records, childbirth 14

certificates, marriage certificates, brothers or sisters birth 11:20 15

certificates, death certificates of parents, divorce 16

certificates, military records, insurance applications, voter 17

registrations or Social Security Numident records, which I found 18

was a much more -- that was a more complicated process than just 19

showing your ID card. 11:21 20

So that just took you about two minutes to pull that all 21 Q.

together, right? 22

Oh, I cannot even express the amount of time, energy, and 23 A.

frustration it required. 24

Well, what did you do next in terms of looking for records? 11:21 25 Q.

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So I began to contact family members, make phone calls. 1 A.

I started with the school records. I figured the best 2

place to start was to find out about her school records. So I 3

contacted the State of Tennessee because I figured she went to 4

school, elementary school, there. And while I didn't know 11:21 5

anything about the schooling, I asked relatives about the name 6

of the school, and they told me that she went to an elementary 7

school for colored children. 8

And I called the state to find out about it. That 9

school has long since closed, as we can well imagine, and they 11:22 10

redirected me to the high school in that area. And they went on 11

to say that they did not have electronic files from any of those 12

schools and that would require a manual process that would be 13

rather time consuming. I explained to them that I was trying to 14

get, it was very time sensitive because this was election 11:22 15

related, and so I initiated an additional search in the state of 16

Ohio. 17

May I interrupt you just for a moment? 18 Q.

Yes. Yes. 19 A.

Could you look at page 44 in Exhibit 393, and could you 11:22 20 Q.

identify that record for the Court. 21

Yes. This was everything I did on behalf of my mother. I 22 A.

had to make sure that she provided her personal consent for me 23

to be a representative for her to satisfy any legal 24

requirements. And this is the -- a copy of having done that so 11:22 25

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we could initiate this process for the schools in Tennessee. 1

So this was her consent that you could get the records. 2 Q.

That is correct. A faxed document. 3 A.

And did she have to have her signature notarized on that? 4 Q.

We definitely had to make multiple trips to notaries for 11:23 5 A.

this search during the search process, and this was one of them. 6

Now, you said that you then applied to the Cleveland School 7 Q.

District --8

I did. 9 A.

-- for your mother's records there. 11:23 10 Q.

Why also go to Cleveland and not just -- 11

Because I was running into the roadblock. Because she had 12 A.

gone to a school in the segregated South, I thought, well, since 13

she transferred to Cleveland in the middle school -- I knew that 14

she graduated from high school in Cleveland. So I went to the 11:23 15

high school to try to get the records, but I was told that I 16

needed to prove her parents. Her parents' names had to be on 17

the record. They were not on -- she had a guardian by high 18

school, so that was not sufficient. So they redirected me to 19

the junior high where she transferred from Tennessee originally, 11:23 20

and that was -- the hope was that we would find her parents' 21

names on the junior high record. 22

So that's why I continued the pursuit of the education 23

records and ultimately was able to get a copy of those documents 24

from Ohio. 11:24 25

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What was the urgency about this? 1 Q.

The urgency was that we were trying to get to vote in the 2 A.

upcoming primary election, and the urgency is that -- 3

What month was that? I'm sorry. 4 Q.

This was in Waukesha County. It was in April. 11:24 5 A.

Okay. 6 Q.

And my mother was on a daily basis really trying to 7 A.

understand whether or not she was going to be able to vote in 8

this upcoming election. It was a sense of extreme concern for 9

her which she verbalized on an ongoing basis: Does this mean 11:24 10

I'm not going to be able to vote in the upcoming election? 11

And as the primary was rapidly approaching and this 12

was before any injunction in the state of Wisconsin, I had to 13

say to her, "If we cannot produce these documents, in fact, you 14

will not be able to vote in the upcoming election for the first 11:25 15

time."16

It was a source of frustration, it was a source of -- 17

we could not even understand with a bag full of documents and a 18

long history. One of those items we looked for was her voter 19

registration document from Ohio as well. We thought that that 11:25 20

might be something that would help us. 21

Before we talk about voter registration in Ohio, you had 22 Q.

mentioned child's birth certificates? 23

Yes. 24 A.

And whose child? Your mother's children? 11:25 25 Q.

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We had to produce documents and this letter. She had to 1 A.

keep copies of her children along with the letter. So it was a 2

combination of documents that were satisfying the requirement 3

that would produce the evidence that she never had a birth 4

certificate. And she could use that up until we encountered 11:25 5

this hurdle here in Wisconsin. So we did have to produce the 6

copies of myself and my siblings. 7

And just for the sake of completeness, you haven't included 8 Q.

those birth certificates, copies of those birth certificates 9

here. 11:26 10

I didn't. Not these or her siblings. Because we also had 11 A.

to produce birth certificates for her siblings as well as part 12

of the process. 13

MR. CURTIS: And I'll represent to the Court opposing 14

counsel has advised us that it's not legal to make a copy of a 11:26 15

birth certificate or a death certificate, and therefore we've -- 16

we have not included that kind of thing in this exhibit. 17

BY MR. CURTIS: 18

You mentioned voter registration records in Ohio? 19 Q.

Yes. 11:26 20 A.

How did you track those down? 21 Q.

I had asked my sister. By this time, I was really 22 A.

frustrated. I was spending hours, money, energy. So I asked my 23

sister who resides in Illinois if she would take a piece of the 24

process and if she would start to help me in this effort and 11:26 25

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would she start to track down the voters. We were running out 1

of time. 2

And what's your sister's name? 3 Q.

My sister's name is Cheryl Jones Harper, and she's here with 4 A.

me today. 11:27 5

She's here in court today? 6 Q.

Yes, uh-huh. 7 A.

Could I ask you to turn to page 31 of Exhibit 393. 8 Q.

Yes. 9 A.

Could you identify that document for the Court? 11:27 10 Q.

Yes. This is the document that my sister was able to obtain 11 A.

from the State of Ohio. She forwarded it to me so I could 12

include this in the proof of our evidence. 13

And on this document, it is the record from the City 14

of the Village of Cleveland, Ohio. It is dated September 18th, 11:27 15

1956, which was the date that my mother approached Cleveland 16

when she was able to vote. 17

And the other addresses listed on this card, are those the 18 Q.

addresses where your parents lived? 19

Each time she needed to change the address so she could 11:27 20 A.

assure that she would have the right to exercise her right to 21

vote, she did so. 22

So did you contact the Wisconsin DMV or Department of 23 Q.

Transportation again once you had gathered all of these 24

documents? 11:28 25

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I did. 1 A.

By the way, what did you carry all of this in? 2 Q.

By this time I had accumulated enough receipts and 3 A.

documentation that it is now in a canvas bag, folders and all 4

kinds of support documentation. 11:28 5

So what was your communication with Wisconsin? 6 Q.

So after my first and second visit -- I began to exchange, 7 A.

via e-mail, questions about are you sure that this is a 8

requirement for a birth certificate -- is there no other 9

recourse? Is there anything else I can produce to legally allow 11:28 10

my mother to vote? Because that was our major concern, and I 11

expressed my concern. 12

So I began to exchange letters -- communication with 13

the Department of Motor Vehicles, in which case I said to them, 14

"Is there anyone who could help review this and exercise 11:29 15

judgment and render a decision, given that we have all of the 16

supporting documentation, which would allow her to have the 17

opportunity to vote in the upcoming primary election?"18

And they said that it was a requirement that she have 19

a birth certificate. I explained to them that she had never had 11:29 20

one and that we were in the process of conducting a very 21

thorough search, and yet again it has been confirmed that it 22

doesn't exist and it may not happen in time for the upcoming 23

election. 24

Could I ask you to refer to page 46 of Exhibit 393. And if 11:29 25 Q.

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you could, identify the top e-mail. 1

Yes. I wrote -- I went online. I went to the Department of 2 A.

Transportation and provided a question, and this was responded 3

to by a member of the Department of Transportation in April. 4

And at that time, she said that Wisconsin is in 11:30 5

compliance with federal rules requiring everyone to produce -- 6

to prove name and date of birth, U.S. citizenship status, 7

identity, and residency. 8

She said that the legal documents that prove name and 9

date of birth are a certified birth certificate and/or passport. 11:30 10

The birth certificate also proves U.S. citizenship status. 11

Identity is proven with a government-issued document that 12

contains your signature and/or your photo. And then she 13

redirected me to the link that gives me all that -- the list of 14

documents that I had been working from. 11:30 15

I had asked her if a supervisor or anyone could 16

exercise judgment in this situation, since I thought it was 17

extenuating circumstances. 18

And her response is: The supervisor at the DMV 19

station you go to has the authority to make exceptions; however, 11:31 20

I doubt one would be made for not having either the birth 21

certificate or passport. 22

So the reference to the DMV station you go to, that was the 23 Q.

DMV in Waukesha? 24

That is correct. 11:31 25 A.

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So what did you do then? 1 Q.

We were days away, and I finally said I am -- but at this 2 A.

point, I believe the injunction was in place but I was concerned 3

about the upcoming general election. 4

And I said I'm going to go to see if I can get a 11:31 5

supervisor who can use some judgment in this situation. And I 6

then left Waukesha County and I went into Milwaukee County, 7

where I was met by a supervisor who was able to ask me to 8

produce my birth certificate, my driver's license, my residency, 9

in addition to all of the documents we had, including my 11:32 10

mother's photo ID from the State of Ohio.11

And after rendering all of those pieces of 12

identification and speaking with both of us about the truth and 13

support, she then decided that she believed that we had given 14

sufficient evidence of the proof of my mother's identity and we 11:32 15

were then able to pursue obtaining a photo ID. 16

So you got the free photo ID from Milwaukee County? 17 Q.

No. We wanted her to have the exact same right here in 18 A.

Wisconsin that she had in Ohio. So she had an Ohio driver's 19

license, and we wanted her to have a Wisconsin's driver's 11:32 20

license. We saw no reason that she shouldn't be able to. 21

And so that's what Milwaukee issued to you. 22 Q.

And that's what we purchased. 23 A.

Now just a few more questions. 24 Q.

You mentioned that your mother did ultimately receive 11:32 25

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a delayed certificate of birth from Tennessee? 1

She did. 2 A.

MR. CURTIS: Your Honor, we've identified that, an 3

original of that certificate, as LULAC Exhibit 394. I can't 4

hand it to the witness -- the Court has it. I can't hand it to 11:33 5

the witness to authenticate, but -- okay.6

BY MR. CURTIS:7

Do you recall what month that was issued? 8 Q.

I believe we were able to obtain that in the month of April. 9 A.

I have to say without looking at it I can't recall. 11:33 10

Now just to summarize --11 Q.

Yes. 12 A.

-- a bit. 13 Q.

Between December 2011 and April 2012, how much money 14

did you and your mother spend in trying to get her an official 11:33 15

Wisconsin ID? 16

In direct costs, minimally -- because this is not an 17 A.

exhaustive cost -- but we definitely spent in excess of $100. 18

That does not include any indirect costs. 19

How much time in total do you estimate that you and your 11:34 20 Q.

mother spent in trying to get an ID card? 21

I'm estimating at least a week of time. Somewhere around 40 22 A.

to 50 hours over the several months. 23

Total. 24 Q.

Yes. 11:34 25 A.

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Now, as her daughter, if you were not there do you think 1 Q.

your mother could have handled all of this herself? 2

Absolutely not. First of all, in contacting the state, it 3 A.

wasn't a person; it was a computer site. It was a website. My 4

mother didn't use a computer. The first thing she would have 11:34 5

had to have done would have been able to -- she would have been 6

turned away right at that first step. 7

The second step was then being able to go and to Vital 8

Check and navigate that process. And numerous other e-mail 9

exchanges along the way over a series of months. E-mail was a 11:34 10

primary mode along with faxing and numerous phone calls. 11

Why did your mother keep trying so hard to get an ID? 12 Q.

My mother, I cannot overemphasize the value on voting and 13 A.

being a good corporate citizen that was instilled in our family. 14

In addition to loving God and loving your country, she 11:35 15

also -- my parents believed that if you wanted -- if you had 16

something to say in this country then you ought to use your 17

right to vote and to use that as a collective to make changes. 18

They didn't just sit back. They were leaders, they stepped up, 19

and they made sure that they exercised their civil rights. 11:35 20

I can't tell you how important this was for my mother. 21

It started way back when she was able to be involved in the 22

Civil Rights Act. This was something they were involved in as 23

we integrated neighborhoods, we integrated school systems, we 24

integrated church systems. My parents were always on the front 11:35 25

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line, and they were always exercising their right to vote along 1

the way. It was a sense of civic responsibility and pride and 2

dignity and something that she was very committed to. 3

From your observation, how did all this uncertainty about 4 Q.

getting the necessary documentation affect your mother? 11:36 5

She was getting increasingly frustrated. And she made a 6 A.

comment, I know publicly -- to me she made many comments that 7

this was affecting her humanity. She talked about the fact that 8

this was about civil rights under the law. And she also talked 9

about how she couldn't believe that in 2012 we were still 11:36 10

fighting the same issues she and Dad were fighting back in 1965 11

where we were kids in the living room watching them gather with 12

neighbors around this whole issue of voter rights. 13

And what was it like for you to go through this experience 14 Q.

with your mother? 11:36 15

It was arduous, frustrating, and even as I heard opening 16 A.

comments today I know now more than ever before why it is 17

extremely important to use our right to vote. It is very 18

important to have representation by our public servants as well 19

as other members across local, national, statewide government. 11:37 20

So this is -- has been disappointing at the very 21

least, frustrating, expensive, and something that I am hopeful 22

will be resolved and turned around. 23

Did your mom vote in the April 2012 primary? 24 Q.

She did. 11:37 25 A.

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Did your mom vote in the June 2012 recall? 1 Q.

She did. 2 A.

Was your mother planning to vote in the November 2012 3 Q.

election? 4

We had already received her absentee ballot. And 11:37 5 A.

unfortunately, my mother passed away the day before the deadline 6

for her to exercise that vote. 7

What was the date of your mother's passing? 8 Q.

October 31st, 2012. 9 A.

Where did she die? 11:38 10 Q.

She died at home with me at my sister. 11 A.

This was your home in Brookfield? 12 Q.

My home in Brookfield, yes. She was pronounced at -- in a 13 A.

hospital in Brookfield. 14

Ms. Crawford, shortly before she died, did you and your 11:38 15 Q.

mother agree to be interviewed for a film made by the 16

Advancement Project? 17

Little did we know that 13 days before she passed away that 18 A.

this would be something that she would do that she would be -- 19

we are as a family very proud of. And she did agree to do that. 11:38 20

You have seen the film titled "Bettye and Debra"? 21 Q.

Yeah. 22 A.

Does that accurately describe how your mother felt about 23 Q.

voting and having her right to vote restricted? 24

It's a modest representation of her fervor on this issue. 11:38 25 A.

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But it does do, I'm sure, a job that we're very proud of and 1

that she would be proud of too. 2

She was being polite because she was on camera? 3 Q.

She was definitely being polite because she was on camera. 4 A.

MR. CURTIS: Your Honor, we have the video. It's only 11:39 5

three minutes long. With the Court's indulgence -- 6

THE COURT: Fine, go ahead. 7

MR. KAWSKI: Your Honor, we'll object to the showing 8

of this video as hearsay. 9

MR. CURTIS: Well, as to hearsay, Your Honor, first of 11:39 10

all, it's not hearsay as to anything Ms. Crawford says. She's 11

here in court to be cross-examined by Mr. Kawski at his 12

pleasure. 13

And as for Ms. Jones, I think 804(b)(4) takes care of 14

this. Where a declarant is unavailable, as Ms. Jones is, 11:39 15

statements of personal or family history are admissible. Also 16

describes then existing mental or emotional condition. 17

MR. KAWSKI: Your Honor, while this exhibit may 18

contain some statements of that nature, the whole thing contains 19

hearsay that is not subject to an exception. So we again 11:40 20

object. This is hearsay. It should not be shown. 21

THE COURT: All right. I'll sustain the objection. 22

BY MR. CURTIS:23

Let me show you, Ms. Crawford, what has been marked as LULAC 24 Q.

Plaintiffs' Exhibit 395. Can you identify that document? 11:40 25

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I can. This is the declaration that my mother approved of 1 A.

at the initiation of this litigation. 2

MR. CURTIS: Your Honor, I would move the admission of 3

Ms. Jones' declaration again as a -- 4

THE COURT: All right. 393, 394, 395. Any objection? 11:40 5

MR. KAWSKI: Yes, we have objections to all of those. 6

First starting with 395, this is hearsay, not subject to any 7

exception. 8

THE COURT: All right. Let's take up that later. I 9

didn't know that there was going to be an objection. We'll deal 11:41 10

with the issue of admissibility later. 11

MR. KAWSKI: Thank you, Your Honor. 12

THE COURT: Go ahead. 13

MR. CURTIS: Okay. 14

BY MR. CURTIS:11:41 15

Just a few more questions, Ms. Crawford. 16 Q.

Are you aware of allegations that have been made 17

regarding where your mother died and whether she was entitled to 18

vote in Wisconsin at the time of her death? 19

Yes, I was recently made aware of those allegations. 11:41 20 A.

After she came to live with you in November 2011, did your 21 Q.

mother ever vote in Ohio again? 22

She absolutely did not. 23 A.

Either in person or by absentee ballot? 24 Q.

In any way, shape, or form. 11:41 25 A.

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Did she vote exclusively in Wisconsin? 1 Q.

She absolutely did. And I escorted her to them personally. 2 A.

It's not hearsay. 3

Was she planning to vote here in November 2012? 4 Q.

She absolutely was. 11:42 5 A.

Did she ever move back to Ohio?6 Q.

Never. Until we sent her remains to go back to be laid to 7 A.

rest next to my father. 8

And again specifically she died where? 9 Q.

In Waukesha County in our home. At that time, it was her 11:42 10 A.

residence as well. 11

MR. CURTIS: Your Honor, I do not have a copy for 12

Ms. Crawford to authenticate, but we have submitted as 13

Exhibit 396 the original of Ms. Jones' certificate of death 14

issued by the State of Wisconsin. 11:42 15

MR. KAWSKI: And, Your Honor, I want to be clear. 16

Exhibit 396, it states on the copy we have, "Defense counsel has 17

taken the position that it is illegal to make or submit a copy 18

of a birth certificate or death certificate even in trial 19

exhibits for the Court and opposing counsel. Plaintiffs' 11:42 20

counsel will therefore be prepared to tender an original 21

certificate to the Court." 22

That misstates defense counsel's position. We have 23

taken the position that birth certificates in Wisconsin cannot 24

be copied. And I would also like to point out for 394, the same 11:43 25

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statement as in 396's inserted in our binder, defense counsel 1

has not taken any position with regard to Tennessee birth 2

certificates, which is what Exhibit 394 is. 3

THE COURT: Okay. So 396 we'll deal with that later. 4

Is that the idea? 11:43 5

MR. KAWSKI: Correct, we'll object at the time of 6

moving to admit it. 7

THE COURT: Okay. 8

MR. CURTIS: I'd be happy to submit a copy to 9

Mr. Kawski. We were being cautious. 11:43 10

THE COURT: Okay. 11

MR. KAWSKI: Thank you. Understood. 12

MR. CURTIS: Thank you, Ms. Crawford. 13


THE COURT: Mr. Kawski, any questions? 11:43 15

MR. KAWSKI: We have no questions for this witness. 16

THE COURT: Okay. 17


THE COURT: Next witness? 19

MS. CHAPMAN: Your Honor, my name is Leigh Chapman. 11:44 20

I'm one of the attorneys for LULAC. And we would like to call 21

Rickey Davis. 22

THE COURT: Okay. 23

RICKEY DAVIS, PLAINTIFF WITNESS, DULY SWORN 24

THE COURT: Mr. Davis, you gotta talk right into that 11:44 25

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mic. It's Rickey, R-I-C-K-Y, Davis, D-A-V-I-S? 1

THE WITNESS: R-I-C-K-E-Y. 2

THE COURT: E-Y. Okay. 3

Go ahead. 4

DIRECT EXAMINATION5

BY MS. CHAPMAN: 6

Tell the judge your name, please. 7 Q.

Rickey Davis. 8 A.

How old are you? 9 Q.

55. 11:45 10 A.

Where were you born? 11 Q.

Memphis, Tennessee. 12 A.


On Highland Street in Wisconsin. 14 A.

What city is that? 11:45 15 Q.

Milwaukee. 16 A.

How long have you lived in Wisconsin? 17 Q.

Since '06. 18 A.

2006? 19 Q.

2006. 11:45 20 A.

What is your racial background? 21 Q.

African-American. 22 A.

Mr. Davis, do you have a certified birth certificate? 23 Q.

No, I do not. 24 A.

Have you ever had a certified birth certificate? 11:45 25 Q.

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Yes, I have. 1 A.

What happened to it? 2 Q.

It was destroyed in a fire. 3 A.

When was that? 4 Q.

That was back around '68, '69 somewhere. 11:45 5 A.

Let's talk about your background. Where did you grow up? 6 Q.

In Chicago, Illinois. 7 A.

When did you move from Memphis, Tennessee, to Chicago, 8 Q.

Illinois? 9

In 1962. 11:46 10 A.

Where did you go to high school? 11 Q.

South Shore High School. 12 A.

Where is South Shore High School? 13 Q.

On the south side of Chicago. 14 A.

Did you graduate? 11:46 15 Q.

Yes. 16 A.

What did you do after high school? 17 Q.

I joined the United States Army military. 18 A.

What branch were you in? 19 Q.

The Army. 11:46 20 A.

Where were you stationed? 21 Q.

I started off at Fort Jackson, South Carolina; Fort Benning, 22 A.

Georgia. And then I served a career and then I came back 23

stateside to Fort Sill, Oklahoma, and Fort Bliss, Texas. 24

What years were you in the military? 11:47 25 Q.

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Davis/Direct


From '75 to '79. 1 A.

Were you honorably discharged? 2 Q.

Yes, I was. 3 A.

What rank were you? 4 Q.

My highest range completed was a sergeant. 11:47 5 A.

Do you have your discharge papers? 6 Q.

Yes, I do. 7 A.

Where are they located? 8 Q.

I have them at home, put away. 9 A.

What did you do for a living after the military? 11:47 10 Q.

I have various jobs such as clerk typists and maintenance. 11 A.

Majority of my job has been maintenance. 12

Are you currently employed? 13 Q.

No. I'm on a layoff status right now. 14 A.

I'm going to ask you a few questions about ID. 11:47 15 Q.

Do you have a veterans ID card? 16

Yes, I do. 17 A.

Do you have a Social Security card? 18 Q.

Yes, I do. 19 A.

Do you currently have a Wisconsin driver's license? 11:47 20 Q.

No, I do not. 21 A.

Have you ever had one? 22 Q.

No. 23 A.


No, I do not. 11:48 25 A.

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Do you have a naturalization certificate? 1 Q.

No. 2 A.

Do you have a tribal ID card? 3 Q.

No, I do not. 4 A.

Do you have a student ID card? 11:48 5 Q.

No, I do not. 6 A.

Do you have a nondriver photo ID? 7 Q.

No. 8 A.

Have you ever had a nondriver photo ID? 9 Q.

No. 11:48 10 A.

Do you have any other type of ID with your picture on it? 11 Q.

No, I do not. 12 A.

You said you had a veterans ID card.13 Q.

What do you use your veterans ID card for? 14

Basically for hospital and medication purposes. 11:48 15 A.

Does it have an expiration date on it? 16 Q.

No. 17 A.

Have you ever tried to get an ID from the DMV? 18 Q.

Yes, I have. 19 A.

Why did you decide to do that? 11:49 20 Q.

For one, it was for voting purposes, and it was also needed 21 A.

for job purposes also along with housing. 22

And when was that? 23 Q.

Along with housing, you have to have a state ID from the 24 A.

State of Wisconsin. 11:49 25

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When did you go to the DMV to get that ID? 1 Q.

I tried on a couple of occasions. I think it was like maybe 2 A.

around '08. I went back again I think it was in '09. And both 3

times I was turned down because of the fact I didn't have a 4

birth certificate. 11:49 5

So what documents did you bring with you to the DMV? 6 Q.

I brung the photocopy from the VA along with my discharge 7 A.

papers and along with proof of residence along with another form 8

of identification that I had, signed by the veterans 9

administration, stating who I am. 11:50 10

And they still turned it down. 11

So you needed a birth certificate, that's what you said? 12 Q.

Yes. 13 A.

Did they tell you how to get one? 14 Q.

No. Because basically they -- where I was born in Memphis, 11:50 15 A.

everything is torn down -- the hospital I was born in, the city 16

hall. So they told me I had to go to Nashville. And I never 17

been to Nashville in my life so I really wouldn't know how to go 18

through -- 19

Did you try to get your birth certificate from Nashville? 11:50 20 Q.

No, I didn't. Because they said I have to send money. And 21 A.

I don't like to be sending money to places and then I don't 22

receive a birth certificate then I'm out of my money. 23

So you never received a birth certificate from Nashville. 24 Q.

No. 11:50 25 A.

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Let's talk about voting. Are you registered to vote? 1 Q.

Yes, I am. 2 A.

How frequently do you vote? 3 Q.

I try and vote as often as possible. I generally just vote 4 A.

in the main elections. 11:51 5

When was the first time that you voted? 6 Q.

Here in Wisconsin, that was the -- the first term for Obama. 7 A.

Did you vote in the November 2012 presidential election? 8 Q.

Yes. 9 A.

Do you want to vote in the next election? 11:51 10 Q.

Yes, I do. 11 A.

Have you ever worked in the polls? 12 Q.

Yes, I have. When I was in Chicago, I worked as a deputy 13 A.

registrar. 14

THE COURT: You want to get a little closer to the 11:51 15

mic, Mr. Davis? 16

THE WITNESS: Yes. 17

In the State of Illinois in Chicago, I worked the 18

polls as a deputy registrar. 19

BY MS. CHAPMAN:11:51 20

When was that? 21 Q.

Oh, this was back during the time when -- what's his name -- 22 A.

Mayor Washington, when he was doing his running. 23

Is voting important to you? 24 Q.

Yes, it is. It's part of a constitutional right to vote. 11:52 25 A.

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Is voting important to you as a veteran? 1 Q.

Yes, it is. 2 A.

How will you feel if you won't be allowed to vote because of 3 Q.

Wisconsin's voter ID law? 4

I would feel stripped. I would feel like you taking some of 11:52 5 A.

my constitutional rights away from me. Because you got so many 6

people out there that doesn't have a state ID and you stripping 7

them also.8

MS. CHAPMAN: Thank you, Mr. Davis. I have no further 9

questions. 11:52 10

THE COURT: Okay.11

CROSS-EXAMINATION12

BY MS. LAZAR:13

Good morning, Mr. Davis. 14 Q.

Good morning. 11:52 15 A.

My name is Assistant Attorney General Maria Lazar. I'm 16 Q.

going to have a few questions of you this morning. Let me know 17

if you can't understand my question or if I'm not loud enough. 18

You indicated that you have a veterans ID card. 19

Yes. 11:53 20 A.

Is that correct? 21 Q.

Yes. 22 A.

You also indicated that you have a Social Security card. 23 Q.

Yes. 24 A.

And you indicated that you are registered to vote in 11:53 25 Q.

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Wisconsin; is that correct? 1

Yes, I have. 2 A.

Have you ever driven a car? 3 Q.

No. Not in Wisconsin, no. 4 A.

Did you ever have a driver's license in another state? 11:53 5 Q.

State of Illinois. 6 A.

And when was that driver's license effective? 7 Q.

Oh, back in the '70s. 8 A.

THE COURT: Again, do you want to pull the mic? 9

THE WITNESS: Back in the '70s. 11:53 10

BY MS. LAZAR: 11

You indicated -- if I'm correct, you said you don't have a 12 Q.

passport. 13

No. 14 A.

Are you on -- and you said you -- and I can't recall. Did 11:53 15 Q.

you say you get unemployment? 16

No. No, I don't receive unemployment. 17 A.

Are you on Social Security? 18 Q.

No. 19 A.

Are you on Medicare or Medicaid? 11:53 20 Q.

No. 21 A.

When you registered to vote in Wisconsin, what did you use 22 Q.

as proof to register? 23

I used a veterans card and something with my address on it. 24 A.

You said something with your address? 11:54 25 Q.

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Right. Right. Like a bill or something like that. 1 A.

Do you have a baptismal certificate? 2 Q.

Beg your pardon? 3 A.

A certificate that shows that you were baptized by a church. 4 Q.

No. No. 11:54 5 A.

Do you have a savings account? 6 Q.

No. 7 A.

Or any checking account at a bank? 8 Q.

Not really, no. 9 A.

Have you ever flown on an airplane since 2011? 11:54 10 Q.

No. 11 A.

You were told or you testified that you tried to get an ID 12 Q.

from the Wisconsin DMV, and you wanted to get that you said for 13

three purposes: for voting, for jobs, and for housing. Is that 14

correct? 11:55 15

Sure. 16 A.

And you said you tried in 2008 and 2009; is that correct? 17 Q.

Right. Right. Two different spots. 18 A.

And both times you were told you needed a birth certificate, 19 Q.

correct? 11:55 20

Exactly. 21 A.

And you were told that you could apply and get one from 22 Q.

Nashville but you did not want to do that; is that correct? 23

Not really correct because for the simple reason I don't 24 A.

really know the address or anything. They said I had to go to 11:55 25

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Nashville. 1

Someone -- who told you -- 2 Q.

People at the DMV. 3 A.

The people at the DMV in Wisconsin. 4 Q.

Yes. And they gave me a piece of paper, and I still didn't 11:55 5 A.

know how to go about it. 6

Did they give you any forms that you could mail to get 7 Q.

information about the fact that your records -- 8

No, they didn't. 9 A.

Did you ask if there was any other procedure you could use 11:55 10 Q.

to prove that your birth certificate had been destroyed? 11

No. I asked about it, but they sent me to different 12 A.

directions then. When I went to the places that they sent, they 13

said that I had to go back to the DMV, which I went back to the 14

DMV and they said, well, you gotta go through Nashville. 11:56 15

Okay. Clarify that. You said the DMV sent you somewhere. 16 Q.

Where did they send you? 17

I went to a church down here --18 A.

Okay. 19 Q.

-- to try and get -- St. Vincent's, a few blocks down. They 11:56 20 A.

said go to DMV. DMV said you have to go through Nashville. 21

They told you you had to go to Nashville, not to write to 22 Q.

them. 23

They said you could write to them, but I didn't have the 24 A.

address or the form. They gave me an address, but it just had 11:56 25

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an address. It didn't say directed to who or what or where. I 1

mean, I didn't want to just put my money in the mail and just 2

send it off. 3

But you could have written something to Nashville. 4 Q.

No, because it wasn't -- they just had Nashville. And I 11:56 5 A.

never been to Nashville, and they just had the address, send it 6

to this address, and they will send you a birth certificate. I 7

wasn't going to go through that. 8

MS. PRINC: Okay. No further questions. 9

THE COURT: Thank you. You're excused, Mr. Davis.11:57 10




GENEVIEVE WINSLOW, PLAINTIFF WITNESS, DULY SWORN 14

THE COURT: Have a seat. State your name for the 11:57 15

record and spell your last name and talk real close to that mic. 16

THE WITNESS: My name is Genevieve Winslow, 17

W-I-N-S-L-O-W. 18

THE COURT: You can hang onto the mic and pull it 19

closer if you need to. 11:58 20

THE WITNESS: Okay. 21



BY MS. PRINC: 24

Good morning, Ms. Winslow. For the record, can you also 11:58 25 Q.

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spell your first name? 1

G-E-N-E-V-I-E-V-E. 2 A.

How old are you, Ms. Winslow? 3 Q.

85. 4 A.


Gary, Indiana. 6 A.

When were you born? 7 Q.

January 22nd, 1928. 8 A.

For the record, what is your race? 9 Q.

White. 11:58 10 A.

Did you graduate from high school? 11 Q.

Yes. 12 A.

When did you graduate? 13 Q.

June 1946. 14 A.

And where did you graduate from? 11:58 15 Q.

Charleston High School in Gary, Indiana. 16 A.

Were you married? 17 Q.

No. I'm married now but -- I was married. 18 A.

When were you married? 19 Q.

I was married September 4th, 1948. 11:59 20 A.

What was your husband's name? 21 Q.

Alex Edward Winslow. 22 A.

Did you change your name when you were married? 23 Q.

Yes. 24 A.

To what? 11:59 25 Q.

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Genevieve Winslow. 1 A.

What was your maiden name? 2 Q.

My maiden name off the birth certificate? 3 A.

Well, let's start with your actual maiden name. 4 Q.

Genevieve Kujawski. 11:59 5 A.

And how could you spell Kujawski? 6 Q.

K-U-J-A-W-S-K-I. 7 A.

What name appeared on your birth certificate? 8 Q.

Ganava Kujansky. 9 A.

Can we start with Ganava?12:00 10 Q.

G-A-N-A-V-A.11 A.

And Kujansky? 12 Q.

K-U-J-A-N-S-K-Y. 13 A.

What kind of name is Ganava? 14 Q.

Polish. 12:00 15 A.

When did you move to Wisconsin? 16 Q.

I moved -- I was married on the 4th of September, and we 17 A.

went to Canora, Canada, and returned the following week. So 18

that would have been about the 12th of September 1948. 19

Have you ever -- pardon me. Have you lived here since then? 12:00 20 Q.

Yes. 21 A.

Do you work now? 22 Q.

No. 23 A.

Are you currently retired? 24 Q.

Yes. 12:00 25 A.

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When did you retire? 1 Q.

January '90. 2 A.

THE COURT: Can you pull the mic a little -- you can 3

pull it down. Speak right into it. 4

THE WITNESS: Okay. Thank you. 12:00 5

BY MS. PRINC:6

What did you do before you retired? 7 Q.

I worked in accounts payable. 8 A.

Was that here in Milwaukee? 9 Q.

Yes. 12:01 10 A.

You said the name on your birth certificate was Ganava 11 Q.

Kujansky. 12

Yes. 13 A.

How long did you go by the name Ganava? 14 Q.

Probably when I entered school. And when I entered school 12:01 15 A.

it was a church school, Catholic school, and I was baptized in 16

the church and I was Genevieve Kujawski. 17

Have you gone by that name ever since then? 18 Q.

Until I got married. 19 A.

Have you gone by Genevieve since then? 12:01 20 Q.

Yes. 21 A.

I'm going to ask you some questions about your form of 22 Q.

identification. 23

Okay. 24 A.

Before the photo ID law, did you ever have a driver's 12:01 25 Q.

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license? 1

No. 2 A.

Do you drive? 3 Q.

No. 4 A.

How do you get around? 12:01 5 Q.

My husband was very accessible, and I had no problems and 6 A.

transportation was convenient for me -- public transportation. 7

Before the photo ID law -- sorry, let me rephrase. 8 Q.

Do you have a Wisconsin free photo ID card? 9

Yes, I do now. 12:02 10 A.

I'm going to ask you some questions about how you got that, 11 Q.

in a second. 12

Okay. 13 A.

Did you ever have a U.S. passport? 14 Q.

Yes. 12:02 15 A.

When was it issued? 16 Q.

1987. 17 A.

When did it expire? 18 Q.

In '97. 19 A.

Have you ever had an ID from an Indian tribe? 12:02 20 Q.

No. 21 A.

Have you ever had a U.S. military ID card? 22 Q.

No. 23 A.


No. 12:02 25 A.

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Okay. I'm going to ask you about how you got your free 1 Q.

photo ID. 2

After the photo ID law came into effect, what did you 3

do to be able to vote? 4

I -- as soon as they passed the law for that, I immediately 12:02 5 A.

applied because I wanted to be prepared for the next voting. 6

And I went to the motor vehicle department -- I went to the 7

motor vehicle department and I presented my -- whatever 8

identification I had. 9

So you brought -- 12:03 10 Q.

Okay. 11 A.

-- you brought documents with you? 12 Q.

Yes. 13 A.

What documents did you bring? 14 Q.

I brought my birth certificate, my marriage certificate, my 12:03 15 A.

property tax copy, and my passport and my Social Security. 16

When you got to DMV, what did you do with those papers? 17 Q.

I presented them to the receptionist or the person that I 18 A.

approached in the beginning. 19

And what happened? 12:04 20 Q.

She entered Ganava Kujansky. And I was puzzled because that 21 A.

was the first time I ever experienced that name. 22

Did she explain why she entered Ganava? 23 Q.

She said she took it off the birth certificate. 24 A.

What happened next? 12:04 25 Q.

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Well, they were going to take my picture. But when they 1 A.

called me, they said they couldn't give me an ID because I 2

didn't have the proper birth certificate name. 3

Did they tell you what you should do in order to get ID? 4 Q.

No. There seemed to be a lot of confusion, but they didn't 12:04 5 A.

give me any instructions. My son was with me, and he was kind 6

of disappointed and he did some -- expressed himself. 7

What happened next? 8 Q.

We left. We didn't get any response. They told us to 9 A.

contact their supervisor or something. And we tried that but 12:05 10

without any good results. 11

Did you try anything after that? 12 Q.

My son intervened and he called up our state representative 13 A.

and he followed through on that. 14

What did he do? 12:05 15 Q.

Well, I'm kind of confused here. 16 A.

When I say "he," I meant -- sorry -- the state 17 Q.

representative. 18

The state -- he said he would try to intervene for us. And 19 A.

so that was it. 12:06 20

Did you ever hear back from the DMV? 21 Q.

No. We heard from -- the representative -- we sent an 22 A.

e-mail to our representative, and the representative contacted 23

us and he said he would follow through. 24

Did you go back to the DMV? 12:06 25 Q.

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Not until they called us and said that they were going to 1 A.

arrange that I would be able to get a ID. And so we immediately 2

went there. Well, actually the following day. And we were able 3

to get an ID. 4

Did you bring the same paperwork? 12:06 5 Q.

I don't think it was necessary because they had all that 6 A.

information. I always brought it with me so -- I kinda don't 7

recall especially. 8

Did they explain why you were able to get an ID this time? 9 Q.

They said it was a special deal. You know, these were 12:07 10 A.

different circumstances and they were willing to issue an ID. 11

Ms. Winslow, do you usually vote? 12 Q.

I always vote. 13 A.

How long have you voted? 14 Q.

Since I was 21. 12:07 15 A.

Do you vote in the presidential elections? 16 Q.

Oh, sure. 17 A.

Do you vote in the state and local elections? 18 Q.

Always. 19 A.

Why? 12:07 20 Q.

I think it's important. 21 A.

MS. PRINC: I have no further questions. Thank you. 22

CROSS-EXAMINATION23


Good morning, Ms. Winslow. 12:08 25 Q.

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Good morning. 1 A.

I just have a few questions for you. 2 Q.

MR. LENNINGTON: Dan Lennington for the defendants.3


Ms. Winslow, you have a free state ID card right now; is 12:08 5 Q.

that correct? 6

Yes. 7 A.

And you also have a driver's license? 8 Q.

No. 9 A.

You don't have a driver's license? 12:08 10 Q.

No. I never drove. 11 A.

Okay. How many forms of ID do you have right now that have 12 Q.

your picture on them? 13

Just that one. Oh, and the passport. 14 A.

And the passport is currently expired? 12:08 15 Q.

Yes. 16 A.

So just to summarize, before the voter ID law went into 17 Q.

effect, you did not have any state ID card or state driver's 18

license. 19

No. 12:08 20 A.

And then after the law went into effect, you took steps to 21 Q.

obtain the state ID card; is that correct? 22

I did it immediately because, like I said, I wanted to be 23 A.

prepared to vote. 24

Can you move the microphone a little closer to you? 12:08 25 Q.

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Okay. 1 A.

So when you went to the DMV, you brought your passport, 2 Q.

correct? 3

Yes. 4 A.

And you brought a Social Security card; is that correct? 12:09 5 Q.

Right. 6 A.

And you brought a Medicare card also, correct? 7 Q.

I don't think they needed that. 8 A.

Do you have a Medicare card? 9 Q.

Yes. 12:09 10 A.

And you brought a certified copy of a marriage certificate? 11 Q.

Yes. 12 A.

And were you unable to vote in any elections because you did 13 Q.

not have a photo identification? 14

No. I always voted. 12:09 15 A.

And so you voted in the February 2012 election; is that 16 Q.

correct? 17

Sure. Yes. 18 A.

When you went to the poll that day, do you remember what 19 Q.

happened when they asked you for your photo ID? 12:09 20

They never asked me. 21 A.

Were you required to show it to them? 22 Q.

In 2012? 23 A.

Yeah, in '12. 24 Q.

I don't show it to them because my name is on the list and 12:09 25 A.

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they just check me off. 1

So do you remember ever going to a poll where they asked you 2 Q.

to show your photo identification? 3

No. 4 A.

Since you've received this state ID card, have you used it 12:10 5 Q.

for any other purpose besides voting? 6

No. I don't use it for anything else. 7 A.

MR. LENNINGTON: All right. Thank you, Ms. Winslow.8

THE WITNESS: Is -- that's it? 9

THE BAILIFF: That's it. 12:10 10

(Witness excused at 12:10 p.m.) 11

JEFFREY WINSLOW, PLAINTIFF WITNESS, DULY SWORN 12

THE COURT: State your name for the record, spell your 13

last name, and talk right into that mic. 14

THE WITNESS: My name is Jeffrey Winslow. 12:11 15

J-E-F-F-R-E-Y, W-I-N-S-L-O-W. 16


BY MS. PRINC: 18

Good morning, Mr. Winslow. My name is Diane Princ. I'm one 19 Q.

of the attorneys for the Frank plaintiffs. I just examined your 12:11 20

mother. 21

Who is your mother, for the record?22

My mother's name is Genevieve Winslow, the woman who was 23 A.

just here. 24

When were you born? 12:11 25 Q.

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I was born September 9th, 1957. 1 A.


I was born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 3 A.

For the record, what is your race? 4 Q.

White. 12:11 5 A.

Have you always lived in Milwaukee? 6 Q.

No. I lived in Chicago and Madison for a while. 7 A.

Can you describe your education? 8 Q.

I graduated -- I'm a graduate of the University of Wisconsin 9 A.

law school. 12:11 10

What do you do for a living now? 11 Q.

I'm a caregiver right now. 12 A.

And who is the person you care for? 13 Q.

The woman you just met, Genevieve Winslow. 14 A.

After the photo ID law came into effect, how did you help 12:12 15 Q.

your mother get ID?16

Well, I had my -- I was supposed to get my driver's license 17 A.

renewed, and we chose that day as the day when we would all go 18

and she would get her photo ID and I would get my driver's 19

license renewed. And so we went down there.12:12 20

And do you want me to explain everything? 21

Do you remember about when this was? 22 Q.

This was in, I think, about July 12th, 2011. 23 A.

And what happened when you got there? 24 Q.

Well, we went to the -- we started off with the receptionist 12:12 25 A.

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and gave them -- I checked in and she checked in. And when she 1

checked in, she showed the woman at the check-in counter all of 2

her stuff, and she proceeded to put into the computer the name 3

Ganava Kujansky.4

And when we came, I thought she -- she's got good ID. 12:13 5

And then they put that on her card. And I thought, gee, we're 6

not in Kansas anymore. 7

Was she able to get ID that day? 8 Q.

No, not at all. 9 A.

She had good ID. She came in with a certified copy of 12:13 10

her birth certificate, a certified copy of her marriage 11

certificate, her Social Security card, her Medicare card, she 12

had her current property tax bill, and she had an expired 13

passport with a picture on it that looked like her. It was 25 14

years old, but she was -- it looked like her, it had all of her 12:13 15

identification, it was not altered or mutilated in any way. It 16

was a full ten-year passport. 17

Did they explain what she could do to get an ID? 18 Q.

They told her she could either renew her passport, which 19 A.

would cost over 100-some dollars. They didn't say anything 12:13 20

about that. But they also said that she could have her birth 21

certificate amended. She would have to go through, I guess, the 22

State of Indiana. They gave her a sheet of paper that told you 23

how to apply for a birth certificate from Indiana. It said 24

nothing on there about getting your birth certificate amended. 12:14 25

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They didn't know the procedure, they didn't know what evidence 1

you would need. That's what they said. You know, take it or 2

leave it. Good-bye. 3

Did they explain how much it would cost? 4 Q.

No. Not at all. 12:14 5 A.

What did you do when they told you she'd have to either 6 Q.

renew her passport or get an amended birth certificate? 7

Well, I talked to one supervisor named Jamie, and then I 8 A.

talked to -- I was able -- I had to go to the side of the 9

building and wait for another supervisor named -- a woman named 12:14 10

Miranda Horton. 11

And she said, well -- she told me that that's what 12

we'd have to do. 13

And then I said, "Can I talk to your supervisor?" 14

Because I was asking her, you know, I said, "You've got an old 12:14 15

passport here. Why isn't that acceptable?" 16

And she looks at me blankly like she doesn't 17

understand. She says, "It's expired."18

Well, it's expired but it's still proof of 19

citizenship, it's still proof of identity, it's still proof of 12:14 20

name and date and place of birth, and I can't -- 21

She couldn't understand my question. So when you 22

can't -- when you have a supervisor or anybody that doesn't 23

understand what you're trying to say, you go to the next person, 24

you ask for the next person. 12:15 25

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So I said, "Could I speak to your supervisor?"1

And she said -- I guess she looked around. She 2

couldn't find a -- I guess maybe she was looking for a business 3

card for that woman. She gave me her business card, but then 4

she wrote on the back of her business card the number of a 12:15 5

woman -- I don't remember the name right offhand, but she said, 6

"You can call this person."7

Now, I'm unusual. I don't have a cell phone or 8

anything like that; otherwise, I would have called her right 9

there. So I had to wait till I got home to try to call that 12:15 10

supervisor. But when I tried to call -- I think I tried seven 11

times. I think the first time I got something called -- an 12

accounting firm called KPMG. And I thought that's very strange. 13

I must have misdialed. 14

And I said -- first I asked the woman who answered the 12:15 15

phone, I said, "Could I speak to" -- I think the woman's name is 16

Sandra Brisco. That was the woman's name written on the back of 17

the thing. 18

She said, "No, this isn't a government office," she 19

says.12:16 20

I said, "Oh, I'm sorry. I must have -- "21

She said, "Oh, this happens all the time." 22

MS. PRINC: I'd like to introduce Frank Plaintiffs' 23

Exhibits 596 and 597. 24

BY MS. PRINC: 12:16 25

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Do you recognize what's been marked as 596? 1 Q.

Yes. 2 A.

MR. KAWSKI: Your Honor, if we could have a moment. 3

We're still trying to grab the binder. 4


(Brief pause.) 6

BY MS. PRINC: 7

Do you recognize 569? 8 Q.

Yes. 9 A.

What is this? 12:17 10 Q.

That's the business card that the supervisor, Miranda 11 A.

Horton, gave me. 12

Do you recognize 597? 13 Q.

Yes. That's the name and the number that she wrote on the 14 A.

back of her business card. 12:17 15

And that was the number that -- 16 Q.

Yes. 17 A.

You weren't able to reach her supervisor. 18 Q.

Yes. And I tried it seven times, and I got either a busy 19 A.

signal or I got KPMG. 12:17 20

What did you do next? 21 Q.

I got mad. And I got -- that's when you start to think, 22 A.

well, you know, Mom lost her right to vote now. 23

What I did was I decided I better try to contact my 24

state senator. I wrote State Senator Tim Carpenter an e-mail. 12:17 25

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And I've got a dial-up so he couldn't reach me while I was 1

sending it or after I sent it.2

So after I disconnected, within a few minutes, really, 3

within 10 minutes, I got a phone call from him. He said, "You 4

know, I voted against this." 12:17 5

And he kept -- I think he was apologizing to me that 6

it actually passed. He said, "I didn't vote for this stuff, and 7

I knew this was going to happen."8

He explained to me that even -- he was talking about 9

his mother, too, that his late mother, how she had Parkinson's 12:18 10

and she would have had problems with the law. He was going on a 11

little bit. 12

But he said he would try to help me. 13

I'm going to hand you what's Frank Plaintiff's Exhibit 595. 14 Q.

Do you recognize that? 12:18 15

Yes. That's the e-mail I sent to Senator Carpenter. 16 A.

So what happened after you talked to Mr. Carpenter? 17 Q.

I didn't hear from him for a long time. It was about, I 18 A.

think, until September of -- late September of '11 that I got a 19

call out of the blue from his -- from Russ, his -- a guy who 12:18 20

works in his office. And he told me that I should expect a 21

phone call from someone from the DOT in Madison, and they would 22

talk to me. He gave me the name of a woman, but it eventually 23

turned out to be a man named Jim Miller, I believe it was. 24

Did Mr. Miller call you? 12:19 25 Q.

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Yes, he did. This was about three or four hours later. 1 A.

What happened? 2 Q.

I talked to him for about a half an hour, and I kept telling 3 A.

him, "You know, I don't know how you guys do business when you 4

don't know what a passport means. You don't know the value of 12:19 5

an expired passport as proof of citizenship. I don't know what 6

you're trying to prove if you're not" -- 7

And we went on for about a half an hour about it. 8

Was Mr. Miller able to help you? 9 Q.

Yes. He didn't say why he was going to help us, but he just 12:19 10 A.

said that -- he told us to return to the DMV office that we went 11

to and either ask for Jamie, that first supervisor, or 12

Ms. Horton, the second supervisor, when we arrived. 13

And which DMV office was this? 14 Q.

This was the one on Grange, I think 5500 West Grange. 12:19 15 A.

Here in Milwaukee? 16 Q.

Greenfield, is it? Yeah. 17 A.

When you returned to the DMV, what happened? 18 Q.

We went to the check-out counter again, and we asked for -- 19 A.

the first thing we did was ask for one of the supervisors. 12:20 20

And Jamie appeared. And I told Jamie, "You know, we 21

went through this before. This woman is 84 years old. You 22

know, could we just get this over with?"23

And she said, "No, no. You're gonna have to go 24

through everything again."12:20 25

111

Simon/Direct


So that's what we -- so we started with the photo and 1

went through everything else. It took a little less time than 2

last time. The first time it took about an hour to wait, but 3

this time it took a little less. I don't know why. 4

Was your mother able to get ID? 12:20 5 Q.

Yes. Actually, they told her that she would get it in the 6 A.

mail. Because she was the first-time applicant, she had to wait 7

for it in the mail. 8

MS. PRINC: No further questions. Thank you. 9

MR. KAWSKI: We have no questions for this witness. 12:20 10


(Witness excused at 12:20 p.m.) you 12

THE COURT: Let's take a lunch break. Why don't we 13

come back about five after 1:00. 14

THE BAILIFF: All rise. 12:21 15

(Recess taken at 12:21 p.m., until 1:06 p.m.) 16

MARIAN SIMON, PLAINTIFF WITNESS, DULY SWORN 17

THE COURT: Okay. State your name for the record and 18

spell your last name. And you gotta talk right close to that 19

mic. 01:06 20

THE WITNESS: Okay. Miriam Simon, and it's spelled 21

M-I-R-I-A-M, last name S-I-M-O-N. 22


BY MS. ROTKER: 24

Ms. Simon, what is your occupation? 01:07 25 Q.

112

November4,2013


Simon/Direct


I'm say senior loan underwriter. 1 A.

And what is your race? 2 Q.

Caucasian. 3 A.

And where do you live? 4 Q.

I live in Glendale, Wisconsin. 01:07 5 A.

And how long have you lived in the Milwaukee area? 6 Q.

Since December of 2000. 7 A.

Okay. Who is your mother? 8 Q.

Shirley Simon. 9 A.

Is your mother still living? 01:07 10 Q.

No. 11 A.

Okay. Now you said her name was Shirley Simon, was that her 12 Q.

maiden name or her married name? 13

Her married name. 14 A.

What was her maiden name? 01:07 15 Q.

Her maiden name was Shirley Grace Mendel. M-E-N-D-E-L. 16 A.

Was that the name on her birth certificate? 17 Q.

No. 18 A.

What was the name that was on her birth certificate? 19 Q.

Genevieve Shirley Mendel. 01:07 20 A.

Did anyone in the -- in your experience with your mother and 21 Q.

family history did anyone, to your knowledge, ever call her 22

Genevieve? 23

No. 24 A.

Does anyone in the family know why the birth certificate was 01:08 25 Q.

113

Simon/Direct


different from her name of Shirley Grace Mendel? 1

There was a story that was in the affidavit that my uncle 2 A.

prepared, that a nurse in the hospital wanted her to be named 3

Genevieve, and we don't know if this is actually true. 4

Okay. I'm showing you what's been marked Plaintiffs' 598. 01:08 5 Q.

Frank Plaintiffs' 598. Is that the affidavit that you were 6

referring to? 7

Yes. 8 A.

Before your mother passed away, where did she live? 9 Q.

She lived in Chai Point, C-H-A-I, P-O-I-N-T. Two words, 01:09 10 A.

yes. 11

And what is Chai Point? 12 Q.

It's a continuum of care community, independent and assisted 13 A.

living. 14

And where is it located? 01:09 15 Q.

1400 North Prospect. 16 A.

In what city? 17 Q.

Milwaukee. 18 A.

Okay. When did your mother move to Milwaukee? 19 Q.

In May of 2010. 01:09 20 A.

And prior to your mother's move to Milwaukee, where did she 21 Q.

live? 22

Elgin, Illinois. 23 A.

Did your mother have a history of being involved in election 24 Q.

issues? 01:09 25

114

Simon/Direct


Yes. 1 A.

And what was that? 2 Q.

She was a member of the League of Women Voters, she was a 3 A.

registrar, I don't know when that started, but she registered 4

people to vote. 01:10 5

Did she ever talk to you about voting? 6 Q.

Yes, when I turned 18, I was registered to vote almost 7 A.

immediately. 8

Your mother took you? 9 Q.

My mother took me. Or I took myself. But it had to happen. 01:10 10 A.

Did you hear your mother talk to other people around you 11 Q.

about the importance of voting? 12

MS. LAZAR: Objection, Your Honor, hearsay. 13

MS. ROTKER: It's whether the witness heard her mother 14

make these comments. 01:10 15

THE COURT: I'll allow it. 16

THE WITNESS: So we had a lady who cleaned the house 17

who wasn't registered to vote and she was always telling her 18

that she needed to register to vote because if you didn't, if 19

you didn't vote then you had nothing to say about what happens. 01:10 20

BY MS. ROTKER:21

And when you said she was always telling her you mean your 22 Q.

mother was telling the cleaning lady. 23

Yes, my mother. 24 A.

Okay. How did your mother feel about voting after she moved 01:11 25 Q.

115

Simon/Direct


to Wisconsin? Was she interested in continuing to vote in 1

Wisconsin? 2

Yes. And she made a big deal about the fact that she had 3 A.

voted in every election but one. 4

Okay. Did you have any reason to talk to your mother about 01:11 5 Q.

voter ID? 6

Yes. I talked to her to tell her that she was going to need 7 A.

an ID to be able to vote. And to set up a time when we could go 8

and take care of it. 9

And so before you learned about the voter ID law did your 01:11 10 Q.

mother have a Wisconsin driver's license or state ID card? 11

No. 12 A.

You said you set up an appointment to take her, where did 13 Q.

you set up an appointment? 14

Well I didn't -- the first time I didn't set an appointment, 01:11 15 A.

I set up a time with her to be able to go. 16

To be able to go where? 17 Q.

To go to the Department of Motor Vehicles on Mill Road. 18 A.

Okay. Okay. And how did you -- why did you pick the Mill 19 Q.

Road DMV? 01:12 20

Because my mother had a bad hip and it was all on one level 21 A.

and easy in and out and parking close to the door. 22

And how did your mother get to the DMV? 23 Q.

I picked her up at Chai Point and I took her to the DMV. 24 A.

Did you bring any paperwork with you? 01:12 25 Q.

116

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Simon/Direct


Yes. 1 A.

What did you bring? 2 Q.

I brought her birth certificate, I brought the affidavit 3 A.

from my uncle about her name, I brought a Social Security card, 4

I brought proof of residence, I believe it was a telephone bill, 01:12 5

and -- 6

Okay. Now, you already mentioned -- when you say you 7 Q.

brought her birth certificate, that was the birth certificate 8

you mentioned earlier that said Genevieve Shirley Mendel on it? 9

Yes. 01:13 10 A.

What was the name on her Social Security card? 11 Q.

Shirley M. Simon. 12 A.

And what was the name on her utility bill or her telephone 13 Q.

bill? 14

Shirley M. Simon. 01:13 15 A.

And you said you brought the affidavit, can you explain a 16 Q.

little more what -- when was that affidavit created? 17

That affidavit was created in the 1970s when she went to -- 18 A.

when she applied for a U.S. passport. 19

When your mother applied. 01:13 20 Q.

Yes, when my mother applied for a U.S. passport. 21 A.

And the purpose of it was to clarify the problem with her 22 Q.

birth certificate or the discrepancy -- 23

The discrepancy between the name that she used and the birth 24 A.

certificate, yes.01:13 25

117

Simon/Direct


And was she able using that affidavit to get a passport? 1 Q.

Yes. 2 A.

Did she as of 2010 when she moved to Milwaukee have a valid 3 Q.

passport anymore? 4

It was expired and we don't know whether it was thrown away 01:13 5 A.

because it was expired or it got lost in the move. 6

So the only time she had gotten that passport was the one 7 Q.

time in the 1970s. 8

She had renewed it, they're good for 10 years so she had 9 A.

renewed it several times. She traveled extensively. 01:14 10

But by the time she got to Milwaukee she did not have that 11 Q.

passport anymore. 12

That's correct. 13 A.

Now, you said you took her up to the DMV on Mill Road that 14 Q.

first time, do you remember about when that was? 01:14 15

That was -- the week before Thanksgiving, November of 2011. 16 A.

Okay. Did she get an ID that day at DMV? 17 Q.

No. 18 A.

What happened? 19 Q.

I took the identification up to the agent and she looked at 01:14 20 A.

the birth certificate and she said I can only issue an ID in the 21

name of Genevieve. 22

So the agent said she could only issue the birth certificate 23 Q.

in the name of Genevieve and what did you do next? 24

Well, I handed her the affidavit and I said, you know, her 01:15 25 A.

118

Simon/Direct


name is not Genevieve and this affidavit tells you that her name 1

and all her other ID is in the name of Shirley, and she said 2

that she couldn't accept the affidavit. 3

The DMV person said that? 4 Q.

DMV person said that. And then she said I should go back to 01:15 5 A.

Cook County in Chicago and try to get her birth certificate 6

changed or maybe that her parents had legally changed the birth 7

certificate. 8

And were your mother's parents living at that point? 9 Q.

No. 01:16 10 A.

How old was your mother at this point? 11 Q.

93. 12 A.

Okay. When she was unable to get the ID that day at DMV did 13 Q.

your mother say anything to you about her thoughts about voting 14

in the future? 01:16 15

MS. LAZAR: Objection, Your Honor, hearsay. 16


THE WITNESS: She said -- I don't know if it was that 18

day but she said, "Maybe I'm too old to vote." 19

BY MS. ROTKER:01:16 20

Okay. After you were unable to get the ID at DMV what else 21 Q.

did you do? Did you talk to anyone about it? 22

When I took her back to Chai Point I talked to the -- to the 23 A.

-- Marlene Heller who was sales, I don't know if she's still 24

there. And she said she knew somebody at the DMV and she would 01:17 25

119

Simon/Direct


call. The next day I hadn't heard -- and she would call me 1

back, and the next day I hadn't heard anything from her and we 2

decided -- my husband and I talked about it, we decided to call 3

Senator Chris Larsen's office - --4

And why did you pick Senator Chris Larson? 01:17 5 Q.

-- because that was the senator in her district. 6 A.

And what did you say -- did you speak to Senator Larson 7 Q.

directly? 8

I spoke to an aide named Ashley. 9 A.

And what did you tell her? 01:17 10 Q.

I told her the whole story about trying to get the ID and 11 A.

she said that she would make some calls and get back to me to 12

let me know what was going on. 13

And did you hear back from Ashley? 14 Q.

Yes. 01:17 15 A.

And what did she tell you? 16 Q.

She told me that somebody from the DMV was going to call me 17 A.

and to talk about it. 18

And did someone from the DMV call you? 19 Q.

Yes. 01:18 20 A.

And who was that? 21 Q.

His name was Barney Hall. And he's the -- I'm sorry, I 22 A.

can't remember his title. 23

Did he say, was he a supervisor or -- 24 Q.

Yeah, he's -- he was like a regional director of operations 01:18 25 A.

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Simon/Direct


or something like that. 1

And did he give you any instructions on what you should do 2 Q.

or did he say anything to you about your mother's ID? 3

He told me that if I got a marriage certificate for her that 4 A.

he would be able to issue the ID and that I should call him back 01:18 5

when I got it and then he would set up an appointment to do it 6

so she wouldn't have to sit in the DMV all day. 7

So at that point did you have a marriage certificate for 8 Q.

your mother? 9

I didn't -- we did not have one that we could find. 01:18 10 A.

So what did you do? 11 Q.

So I called Kane County, Illinois where my parents were 12 A.

married and I obtained -- and I asked them to check and see if 13

they had a record of their marriage and they did. And I filled 14

out a form and I sent $11 and about a week later we got the 01:19 15

marriage certificate.16

After you got the marriage certificate, what did you do? 17 Q.

Then I called back Mr. Hall and left a message. 18 A.

And did he call you back? 19 Q.

It took about two or three weeks. 01:19 20 A.

And when he called you back, what did he say? 21 Q.

He didn't remember the situation and I wound up having to 22 A.

tell the whole story again. 23

And did he give you instructions or tell you what you should 24 Q.

do at that point? 01:19 25

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Simon/Direct


So then after we went through the story he said -- he asked 1 A.

me when I would like to come. And so I set up a date and a 2

time, I believe it was December 21st and then -- 3

Okay. Did you -- when you -- to come you went back to the 4 Q.

DMV. You set up a time to go back to DMV. 01:20 5

To go back to Mill Road, yes. 6 A.

You said earlier that your mother -- that you picked it 7 Q.

because it was on one level. What was your mother's physical 8

condition at that point? 9

She had a very bad hip and she was using a walker, and 01:20 10 A.

actually they had -- just were in the process of talking about 11

getting a scooter for her. 12

When you went back to DMV what happened? 13 Q.

I asked for the -- he had told me who to ask for and I asked 14 A.

for -- 01:21 15

When you say he -- 16 Q.

Mr. Hall had told me who to ask for, and I don't remember 17 A.

the name of the person, but I asked for her and then Mr. Hall 18

came out of an office. 19

And which documents did you bring with you that time? 01:21 20 Q.

I brought all of the same ones that I brought the first 21 A.

time: the Social Security card, the birth certificate, the 22

affidavit, the -- and then I added the marriage certificate to 23

that. 24

Okay. And with that did they issue the ID card to your 01:21 25 Q.

122

Simon/Cross


mother? 1

They did. 2 A.

Okay. And after receiving that did your mother vote at all 3 Q.

in 2012? 4

I'm not remembering if there was an election right after she 01:21 5 A.

got the card. But she voted absentee. 6

Okay. And would your mother have gotten the ID without your 7 Q.

assistance? 8

No. 9 A.

Why not? 01:22 10 Q.

Because she wasn't able to get to the Department of Motor 11 A.

Vehicles by herself and she was at the point in her life where 12

trying to fight this would have been too much for her. 13

And is your mother still living? 14 Q.

No. 01:22 15 A.

When did she pass away? 16 Q.

May 4th, 2012. 17 A.

MS. ROTKER: Okay. I have nothing further. 18

Thank you. 19

CROSS-EXAMINATION01:22 20

BY MS. LAZAR: 21

Good afternoon, Ms. Simon. You indicated that your mother 22 Q.

was a resident at Chai Point community care facility on Prospect 23

in Milwaukee; is that correct? 24

Yes. 01:22 25 A.

123

Simon/Cross


Now, your mother is what will be called indefinitely 1 Q.

confined at the facility; isn't that correct? 2

I would not characterize it that way. 3 A.

Did you -- is it not true, however, that you determined 4 Q.

before you returned to the DMV that because your mother was a 01:23 5

resident at that care facility, she did not need a photo ID to 6

vote at all in the State of Wisconsin even after Act 23? 7

Yes. 8 A.

So, in fact, all the efforts you made before you went back 9 Q.

the second time you didn't have to do that because she didn't 01:23 10

need an ID to vote at all; isn't that correct? 11

I didn't know until after I made the appointment to get the 12 A.

ID. 13

But you did find out before you went back to get the ID that 14 Q.

she did not need one. Correct? 01:23 15

Yes. 16 A.

And isn't it also true that your mother voted absentee? 17 Q.

When she voted absentee, did she sign the absentee voter 18

application forms? 19

I would imagine, but I don't have firsthand knowledge. I 01:23 20 A.

wasn't there. 21

Do you know whether or not on those absentee application 22 Q.

forms there's a spot that indicates whether or not someone is 23

indefinitely confined or residing in a nursing home? 24

I'm not familiar with the absentee form. 01:24 25 A.

124

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Simon/Redirect


So you're indicating that your mother went back with you to 1 Q.

get the state-issued ID even after you learned she did not 2

require one to vote; is that correct? 3

Yes. 4 A.

MS. LAZAR: Thank you. I have no further questions. 01:24 5

MS. ROTKER: Two quick questions on redirect. 6

REDIRECT EXAMINATION7

BY MS. ROTKER: 8

Ms. Simon, before you took your mother to the DMV the first 9 Q.

time did you have any knowledge that there might be an exception 01:24 10

so that she wouldn't need photo ID? 11

I asked the director of Chai Point and she said that we 12 A.

would need to go and get the ID. 13

And when your mother voted absentee, did she ever vote 14 Q.

absentee in person? Did you ever take her to vote absentee in 01:24 15

person? 16

My husband took her to the Milwaukee City Annex on one 17 A.

occasion. 18

MS. ROTKER: Thank you. I have nothing further. 19

MS. LAZAR: No additional questions, Your Honor. 01:25 20



MR. CORSON: Your Honor, my name is Ethan Corson, one 23

of the lawyers of the LULAC plaintiffs. We'd like to call 24

Nicole Collazo-Santiago. 01:25 25

125

Collazo-Santiago/Direct


NICOLE COLLAZO-SANTIAGO, PLAINTIFF WITNESS, DULY SWORN 1

THE COURT: State your name for the record. 2

THE WITNESS: My name is Nicole Collazo-Santiago. 3

N-I-C-O-L-E, C-O-L-L-A-Z-O, hyphenated, S-A-N-T-I-A-G-O. 4

DIRECT EXAMINATION01:26 5

BY MR. CORSON: 6

Just so I don't keep struggling with your last name, is it 7 Q.

okay if I call you Nicole? 8

Yes. 9 A.

Thank you. Where do you work, Nicole? 01:26 10 Q.

I work as a Take Back America project organizer for AFSCME. 11 A.

What is Take Back America? 12 Q.

Take Back America is one of our programs that works with our 13 A.

members to discuss and encourage the electoral process, provide 14

them with any information about voting rights, voter turnout as 01:26 15

well as civic engagement --16

And what is AFSCME? 17 Q.

-- AFSCME is the American Federation for State County 18 A.

Municipal Employees Union. It's the largest public sector 19

union. 01:27 20

How long have you been a project organizer at Take Back 21 Q.

America? 22

Since the end of December 2011. 23 A.

You mentioned the overall work that Take Back America does. 24 Q.

Can you talk a little bit about your specific role and 01:27 25

126



responsibilities with Take Back America? 1

Yes. So I work with members directly in the southeast 2 A.

region of Wisconsin, encouraging them to participate in the 3

electoral process, providing them information on any changes 4

especially around Act 23 in terms of the electoral process and 01:27 5

voting rights and encouraging them to be involved and provide 6

them with any clarification to questions they may have in terms 7

of the electoral process. 8

Before you became a project organizer with Take Back 9 Q.

America, where did you work? 01:27 10

I worked for AFSCME International. 11 A.

What did you do there? 12 Q.

I worked very closely within the Latino community, 13 A.

throughout the country I worked with members and nonmembers to 14

be more involved in their union but also to create unions. 01:27 15

About how long were you at AFSCME International? 16 Q.

Just under a year. 17 A.

Turning back to your current position with Take Back 18 Q.

America, what city are you based out of? 19

I'm based out of Milwaukee, but I work in the southeast 01:28 20 A.

region. 21

What areas of Wisconsin does the southeast region cover? 22 Q.

Racine, Kenosha, Waukesha and occasionally Dane County. 23 A.

Your work at Take Back America, has it been focused on a 24 Q.

particular racial or ethnic group within AFSCME's membership? 01:28 25

127



Yes, I worked very closely within the Latino community. I 1 A.

work with all communities but especially around Act 23 we worked 2

with members in the Latino community to encourage them to 3

understand the process and the changes to the law. 4

I want to talk specifically about some of that work that you 01:28 5 Q.

were just discussing about Act 23 and voter ID in the Latino 6

community. When the law was passed what, if anything, did you 7

do through your work at Take Back America? 8

We held presentations. We also went to local meetings to 9 A.

discuss with members and groups as well as one on one around the 01:29 10

changes to the law. We did informational pamphlets, leaflets 11

and one-on-one communication with members. 12

And at these group meetings that you attended, about how 13 Q.

many did you attend? 14

We did anywhere between 10 to 30. It varied on how many 01:29 15 A.

local meetings there were. 16

And what was the audience for those community local meetings 17 Q.

typically? 18

It was our membership, so it varied. We have a large range 19 A.

of ethnicities. A lot of Latino members as well as Caucasian 01:29 20

and black members. 21

How long would the presentations you would give typically 22 Q.

last? 23

They could last anywhere between 20 to 30 minutes depending 24 A.

how large of a group you had. But we did do longer 01:29 25

128

November4,2013




presentations as well. 1

What sort of topics would you cover at these meetings when 2 Q.

you were doing work around Act 23 and voter ID? 3

We would discuss the 2012 elections as well as the changes 4 A.

to voting rights and how Act 23 impacts our membership and their 01:30 5

family members and providing them with clarifications to the 6

law. There's a lot of confusion in terms of what qualifies as 7

proof of ID and also proof of residency and citizenship. 8

So is it accurate to say it included what someone would need 9 Q.

to bring to DMV to get an ID? 01:30 10

Right. Yes. We would inform them in the proper forms that 11 A.

they would need to bring in order to obtain such an ID and also 12

educate them on the fact that if need be there is the ability to 13

receive a free ID but unfortunately that information wasn't 14

forthcoming from the DMV. 01:30 15

What sort of feedback did you hear from these Latino voters 16 Q.

at these community meetings? 17

MR. LENNINGTON: Objection. Calls for hearsay, 18

Your Honor. 19

MR. CORSON: Your Honor, it's not hearsay. I'm asking 01:30 20

for things she was told directly. It's not going to the truth 21

of the matter. 22


THE WITNESS: Can you repeat that question? 24

BY MR. CORSON:01:31 25

129



Sure. During these community meetings with Latino AFSCME 1 Q.

members that you participated in, what sort of feedback would 2

you hear from these Latino voters? 3

Just lack of proof of residency and what qualifies as proof 4 A.

of citizenship and what qualifies as proof of ID or what falls 01:31 5

under the scope of Act 23 as a valid ID. 6

Did people understand that they could get a free ID for 7 Q.

purposes of voting? 8

Some people, but the majority of the people I spoke with did 9 A.

not. 01:31 10

Did people understand that they could actually use the 11 Q.

receipt that they received from DOT for purposes of voting while 12

they were waiting to receive their driver's license or state ID 13

in the mail? 14

The majority of them didn't. 01:31 15 A.

For retired members of AFSCME, did they indicate to you that 16 Q.

they had an ID that would allow them to vote under Act 23? 17

Retirees, the majority of them did not have valid IDs. A 18 A.

majority of our retirees no longer drive. 19

Out of all these community meetings you participated in, did 01:32 20 Q.

you ever see anyone from the State of Wisconsin there to educate 21

Latino voters about the voter ID law? 22

No, I did not. 23 A.

During the time when the voter ID law was in effect about 24 Q.

how much time of your day in terms of hours were you spending on 01:32 25

130



Act 23 and voter ID related issues? 1

On any given day I was working on anywhere between 3 to 5 2 A.

hours. 3

I want to talk briefly about the process of obtaining a 4 Q.

birth certificate from Puerto Rico. 01:32 5

Okay. 6 A.

Nicole, where were you born? 7 Q.

I was born in Rio Piedras, Puerto Rico. 8 A.

Can you tell us what happened in 2010 regarding the validity 9 Q.

of birth certificates from Puerto Rico? 01:33 10

Yes. In 2010 the government passed legislation that 11 A.

essentially made all birth certificates prior to 2010 null and 12

void so all residents, citizens from Puerto Rico needed to 13

obtain a new birth certificate. 14

What is your understanding of that process to get a new 01:33 15 Q.

birth certificate? 16

So you either have to go in person and obtain it from the 17 A.

government yourself or can obtain it online. But there is a 18

hefty charge when you are obtaining it online and having it 19

mailed to you. 01:33 20

So the two ways, as I understand it, are either take your 21 Q.

documents and travel down to Puerto Rico to do it in person or 22

to try to navigate a process online which also involves a 23

financial expenditure. 24

Correct. Yes. 01:33 25 A.

131



Based on your years of working in the Latino community 1 Q.

specifically the outreach, public meetings, conversations you've 2

had with Latino voters about the voter ID law, are there Latino 3

voters who do not have the ID required to vote if this law were 4

in place? 01:34 5

Yes. 6 A.

Based on your work in the Latino community again specific to 7 Q.

your work around voter ID and Act 23, are there particular 8

obstacles that the Latino community in particular is likely to 9

face in obtaining the ID that this law requires to vote? 01:34 10

Yes. 11 A.

What type of obstacles? 12 Q.

A large one would be transportation. A large percentage of 13 A.

the Latino community relies on public transit. So that's a big 14

obstacle. For folks if they did need to take the time out of 01:34 15

their day to go to the DMV, that would be time off that's not 16

paid from work to go to the DMV. There's very few here so the 17

lack of locations in the Milwaukee area becomes a burden and how 18

many of them are actually on a bus line as well as, I mean, 19

there's a large percentage of the Latino community that's 01:35 20

transient so they move a lot. So having all the proper 21

documentations readily accessible for them becomes a big burden. 22

But the biggest one obviously is the financial impact going out 23

of your way and losing anywhere between an hour and a half a day 24

of pay is a big deal for folks. 01:35 25

132

November4,2013


Collazo-Santiago/Cross


For some of these Latino members that you have worked with 1 Q.

would there also be language barriers to confront at the DMV? 2

Yes. 3 A.

Because of these obstacles would the voter ID law make it 4 Q.

harder for Latinos to vote? 01:35 5

Yes, definitely would. 6 A.

Because of these obstacles would, in essence, there be 7 Q.

Latino voters who in practice would be prevented from voting? 8

Yes. 9 A.

MR. CORSON: Your Honor, I have no further questions. 01:35 10

CROSS-EXAMINATION11


Good afternoon. 13 Q.

Hello. 14 A.

It's my understanding that you are currently an employee of 01:36 15 Q.

Take Back America; is that correct? 16

Yes. 17 A.

Are you currently an employee of AFSCME? 18 Q.

I am. 19 A.

And are you here on behalf of any of the plaintiffs in this 01:36 20 Q.

lawsuit today? 21

I don't know. 22 A.

Are you a representative of the Milwaukee Area Labor Council 23 Q.

or the AFL/CIO? 24

I am not. 01:36 25 A.

133

Collazo-Santiago/Cross


You are not. You've testified that there's a lack of 1 Q.

understanding in the Latino community concerning what's required 2

for a proof of identification under Act 23; is that correct? 3

Yes. 4 A.

Would it have been helpful to these people to have say a 01:36 5 Q.

statewide campaign directed at voter education under Act 23? 6

I don't know. 7 A.

Would these people have benefited from any educational 8 Q.

outreach by the State of Wisconsin? 9

I suppose, yes. 01:37 10 A.

You testified concerning the invalidity of Puerto Rican 11 Q.

birth certificates before 2010, correct? 12

Yes. 13 A.

Do you know why the government of Puerto Rico passed a law 14 Q.

invalidating birth certificates before 2010? 01:37 15

I don't know all the information behind why. I do know that 16 A.

there was concern around -- 17

MR. CORSON: Objection, Your Honor, this calls for 18

speculation. He's asking the witness to talk about why the 19

Puerto Rico legislature would have passed the law. 01:37 20

THE COURT: Yeah. Sustained. 21

MR. LENNINGTON: The plaintiffs' attorney brought up 22

this Puerto Rican law and I think it's important for the Court 23

to hear why the law was passed in the first place. 24

THE COURT: She testified she didn't know why. And 01:37 25

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the question of legislative motive as many courts have said is 1

always a dicey one. She's not an expert on it. Even if she was 2

she probably wouldn't know. So next question. 3

BY MR. LENNINGTON:4

Are you aware of any concerns in Puerto Rico concerning 01:38 5 Q.

birth certificate fraud? 6

I am not. 7 A.

MR. CORSON: Objection, again. Your Honor, he's 8

asking the witness to speculate. 9

THE COURT: I think she answered. 01:38 10

BY MR. LENNINGTON:11

Does the Wisconsin Department of Motor Vehicles provide 12 Q.

forms in Spanish language? 13

I believe so. 14 A.

MR. LENNINGTON: Nothing further, Your Honor. 01:38 15

MR. CORSON: Couple brief questions, Your Honor. 16

THE COURT: Okay. 17

REDIRECT EXAMINATION18

BY MR. CORSON: 19

Nicole, you were just asked if Latino voters would have 01:38 20 Q.

benefited by an outreach campaign by the State of Wisconsin? 21

Yes. 22 A.

I believe on direct I asked you, you told us about all the 23 Q.

community meetings, the one-on-one that you've done, was there 24

ever anybody from the State of Wisconsin conducting this sort of 01:38 25

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outreach to Latino voters that you observed out of all the 1

meetings you attended? 2

No, there was not. 3 A.

MR. CORSON: No further questions. 4

MR. LENNINGTON: One recross, Your Honor. 01:39 5

THE COURT: Okay. 6

RECROSS EXAMINATION 7

BY MR. LENNINGTON:8

Ma'am, was anyone from the State of Wisconsin ever invited 9 Q.

to these voter outreach meetings? 01:39 10

Not that I know of. 11 A.

MR. LENNINGTON: Thank you. 12

THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. I believe you're 13

excused. 14

THE WITNESS: Thank you. 01:39 15


MR. ULIN: Your Honor, the plaintiffs call Yolanda 17

Adams. 18

YOLANDA ADAMS, PLAINTIFF WITNESS, DULY SWORN 19

THE COURT: Have a seat. Spell your first name and 01:39 20

your last name and talk real close to that microphone. 21

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. Yolanda Adams. 22

Y-O-L-A-N-D-A. Adams, A-D-A-M-S. 23


BY MR. ULIN: 01:40 25

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Good afternoon, Mrs. Adams. 1 Q.

Good afternoon. 2 A.

Mrs. Adams, where do you live? 3 Q.

I live in Kenosha, 4202 45th Street, Kenosha, Wisconsin. 4 A.

And what do you do for a living? 01:40 5 Q.

I am the president and the CEO of the affiliate Urban League 6 A.

in Kenosha and Racine. We serve two counties at our affiliate. 7

And what does the Urban League of Racine and Kenosha do? 8 Q.

We're a 501(c)3 charitable organization community based 9 A.

neighborhood center in, again, Kenosha and Racine and we serve 01:40 10

populations that are in need of training and services so that 11

they can become better educated and enter the workforce. So we 12

are a community based organization in Kenosha and Racine. 13

And typically what are the races of the people that you 14 Q.

serve? 01:41 15

Our target group is African-Americans but we have -- our 16 A.

affiliate has expanded that to include Hispanics and other 17

emerging ethnic populations. 18

Does the Urban League of Racine and Kenosha's mission also 19 Q.

include voter empowerment? 01:41 20

Yes. It is one of the prongs of the mission of the National 21 A.

Urban League movement and as an affiliate we do also empower 22

voters and conduct all kinds of drives and things to get people 23

to vote and to empower them. 24

And can you describe for the Court some of the things that 01:41 25 Q.

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the Urban League does in connection with its voter empowerment 1

mission? 2

Yes. We are able to register voters. Every business day 3 A.

that we're open. I myself am a voter registrar in both Kenosha 4

and Racine and I do require that any of my staff or trainees are 01:42 5

also voter registrars so we can register people. But in 6

addition to that we also conduct voter registration drives, we 7

conduct candidate forums in the community. 8

We assist people with the information that they need 9

to be able to vote and, you know, intelligently with some of the 01:42 10

facts on what the election is about and who the candidates are. 11

So we conduct workshops. We, you know, do the grassroots 12

campaigning. Non-partisan, of course.13

Is your work at the Urban League full-time? 14 Q.

Yes, it is. 01:42 15 A.

And where are your offices? 16 Q.

Our office in Kenosha is at 1418 68th Street in one of the 17 A.

highest populated ethnic neighborhoods, district -- formerly 18

District 8, currently District 12 with the redistricting. In 19

Racine our building is located at 718 North Memorial Drive, 01:43 20

again, in one of the most populated ethnic neighborhoods, and it 21

is District 8. 718 North Memorial Drive. 22

And do you know why the Urban League has placed its offices 23 Q.

in the neighborhoods where they're located? 24

Back in the '60s this affiliate decided that it needed to be 01:43 25 A.

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right smack in the neighborhoods where the building would be 1

within walking distance of the residents who are very much 2

living in poverty and just in need of some services that were 3

within walking distance. 4

So in both of our buildings that we do own that the 01:43 5

Urban League owns were originally in the poorest neighborhoods 6

in Kenosha and Racine. Those neighborhoods have now become more 7

diverse but they are still very, very -- the residents are very 8

low income and continue to be in need of a wide array of 9

services. 01:44 10

And what is the importance of providing services within 11 Q.

walking distance of your constituents? 12

Many of the residents around the two urban leagues do not 13 A.

have transportation. They don't own cars. Many are 14

single-family homes. Their children are at risk. Again poor 01:44 15

neighborhoods. And again, we like to -- we've been asked to 16

move to different areas in our cities but we maintain that we 17

need to be in the neighborhood that's within walking distance 18

for those people. 19

In addition to your work at the Urban League do you have any 01:44 20 Q.

involvement with other community service organizations? 21

Yes. Actually I have about a 45-year community service 22 A.

record. I am currently involved with the League of United Latin 23

American Citizens known as LULAC of Wisconsin. I've served 24

locally statewide and nationally for LULAC. I'm also involved 01:45 25

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Adams/Direct


in the NAACP since the '80s locally and on the state level. I'm 1

the state treasurer for the NAACP for the State of Wisconsin, 2

the state conference of branches. 3

A lot of the other organizations I've been involved 4

with, the Spanish Center, the United Way and, again, a long list 01:45 5

over 45 years. 6

I want to talk for a moment about LULAC of Wisconsin. What 7 Q.

does LULAC of Wisconsin do? 8

LULAC Wisconsin is a civil rights organization, and I think 9 A.

it's easier to understand if I compare it to the NAACP which 01:45 10

most people are more familiar with. Pretty much the same 11

structure. It's a grassroots civil rights organization that has 12

local councils, it has a state board, it has regional offices 13

and then, of course, the national -- the national LULAC which is 14

over all of the membership. It's a membership-driven 01:46 15

organization that is in just about every state and Puerto Rico. 16

And you mentioned that you were currently the treasurer of 17 Q.

LULAC of Wisconsin state board; is that correct? 18


And have you served other positions on the LULAC state 01:46 20 Q.

board? 21

Yes, I have. I started, like most individuals when they 22 A.

join a civil rights organization I start as a member and then I 23

opened up a council. So I was president of a council and then I 24

went on to the state. So I was the state director of LULAC for 01:46 25

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four years. And then I was on the national board serving on the 1

women's commission, the housing commission. I served on the 2

finance committee and as a national board member. 3

During what years did you serve as director of LULAC of 4 Q.

Wisconsin? 01:47 5

I served on -- I'd have to look that up. I'm sorry. I 6 A.

think that was -- let me look real quick. In LULAC it's only a 7

four-year term. We have -- we ensure that everybody keeps 8

moving in the organization. So I served in LULAC as a state 9

director from 2004 to 2008 for my four-year term as a state 01:47 10

director. 11

Have you also served as deputy director of LULAC of 12 Q.

Wisconsin? 13

Yes, I did. Following that, from 2009 for four years I 14 A.

served as the deputy state director under Darryl Morin who 01:47 15

became the state director subsequent to myself. 16

And did you become the treasurer after that? 17 Q.

Yes, I did. 18 A.

And what year was that? 19 Q.

I became treasurer. I'm in my third year as treasurer, 01:47 20 A.

state treasurer. 21

Have you also served as an elected official in Kenosha? 22 Q.

Yes, I have. I was elected to the Kenosha Unified School 23 A.

Board. In 1999 I served two terms. I was school board 24

president. And I was the first Latina elected official in 01:48 25

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either Kenosha or Racine. And that was a four-year term. Four 1

years, two terms. 2

In light of your last answer obviously your race is Latina. 3 Q.

Yes. 4 A.

Where does your family come from? 01:48 5 Q.

I was born in San Antonio, Texas and my parents came to 6 A.

Wisconsin in 1955, so I was 2 years old at that time. 7

Were they born in the United States? 8 Q.

They were born in San Antonio, Texas. 9 A.

Turning back to LULAC of Wisconsin. You mentioned that 01:48 10 Q.

LULAC has a number of councils. Can you describe the structure 11

of LULAC of Wisconsin? 12

Yes, I can. The structure again is grassroots. So we're 13 A.

membership driven. There's other Hispanic organizations that 14

you can join, and I'll just name one of them, you can join 01:49 15

Council of La Raza, NCLR, and pay a membership. But in LULAC 16

when you become a member you're a working member and you 17

actually belong to a council that is comprised of no less than 18

ten members and as many members as you want. And they meet 19

monthly. They're required to meet monthly and then they focus 01:49 20

on certain areas that the membership decides they want to focus 21

on so we do have councils that do have different focus areas. 22

For instance, some have civil rights as a major focus, 23

others have immigration. We have councils that are for women's 24

health. We have councils that are for education and scholarship 01:49 25

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fund raising. Two of the Milwaukee councils are the Mexican 1

Fiesta of Milwaukee. So councils are locally based and the 2

members decide what they will work on. 3

How many councils are there that comprise LULAC of 4 Q.

Wisconsin? 01:50 5

Currently we have nine councils representing southeastern 6 A.

Wisconsin. We're small as compared to the big states like Texas 7

where LULAC was founded. I believe in San Antonio I believe 8

there's over 100 councils in the city of San Antonio. So we're 9

small and we're growing, but we've been around since probably 01:50 10

the '50s. 11

And are you a member of a LULAC council? 12 Q.

Yes, I am. I'm a member of the Tri-County Women's Council 13 A.

325. 14

And what are the tri-counties? 01:50 15 Q.

It's Kenosha, Racine and Milwaukee. 16 A.

And how are LULAC councils related to the state board? 17 Q.

The state officers are from -- they're elected by the local 18 A.

councils and they're not governed by the state but they get 19

advice from the state. And they work in collaboration with the 01:51 20

state. And the council presidents are invited to come to state 21

meetings. And, again, we're all in line with the national 22

LULAC, the mission of the national LULAC organization. 23

Is the work of LULAC of Wisconsin done mostly at the state 24 Q.

board or at the local council level? 01:51 25

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It's done at the local council level. We do a lot at the 1 A.

state. The state has really picked up responsibility over the 2

last -- I wanna say about the last eight years with the state 3

doing a lot more than it used to. So LULAC of Wisconsin is 4

involved in a lot more than it ever had been. But most of the 01:51 5

work is done again at the grassroots level by the local councils 6

in the local communities. 7

What sort of work does your council undertake? 8 Q.

Our Council 325, our focus area is women's health issues. 9 A.

We were opened up as a women's council and then LULAC stopped 01:52 10

opening up women's councils so now it's a regular council, we 11

have men and that in our council as well. But our focus area 12

has remained women's issues so we do things like health fairs 13

and we get involved in issues relating to women first and 14

foremost, but we also do civil rights and other things. 01:52 15

And that was going to be my next question, is LULAC also 16 Q.

involved in voter education? 17

Absolutely. We focus a lot of energy when elections come 18 A.

around on being there to interpret and to encourage Hispanics to 19

get out and vote. 01:52 20

And what are some of the activities that LULAC engages 21 Q.

surrounding Latino political engagement? 22

Voter registration. So we become voter registrars and we, 23 A.

again, we do some canvassing in the neighborhoods. So we do the 24

door knocking. We do the rides to the polls. We poll watch 01:53 25

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during the elections. And we become educated in what the -- you 1

know, what the new laws are so that we can take that back to the 2

people that we serve. 3

Does LULAC of Wisconsin have a large budget? 4 Q.

No. I guess it depends on what you compare it to. But no, 01:53 5 A.

it does not have a large budget. 6

As the state treasurer are you aware of what the budget is? 7 Q.

Yes. Currently it's somewhere around $7500. 8 A.

So how does LULAC undertake all of its activities on such a 9 Q.

small budget? 01:54 10

We depend on a lot of resources from other organizations 11 A.

that we partner with. We partner with the U.S. Hispanic 12

Leadership Institute in Chicago. We're in the region. We 13

partner with the NAACP. We get a lot of resource material from 14

our national office. But a lot of it is -- you know, a lot of 01:54 15

it would have to be duplicated, but we can at least get some of 16

the basic forms from some of our partner organizations and then 17

it's upon us as a council to try to get that duplicated on a 18

very limited budget. 19

Do you also rely on volunteer service? 01:54 20 Q.

Yes, we do. We're all volunteers. There's no paid council 21 A.

member or staff. There's no staff. There's no -- there's no 22

paid state officers. It's all volunteerism. 23

What would you say are LULAC's most important resources? 24 Q.

Our most important resources? I think our partnerships and 01:55 25 A.

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our national office are most important resources. 1

Would you count your volunteer service time as one of 2 Q.

LULAC's important resources? 3

Absolutely. It's the amount of time that the volunteers are 4 A.

able to commit to, so that we can either raise funds for LULAC 01:55 5

or so that, you know, we can get out in the neighborhoods and 6

knock on doors or again some of the other things that I 7

mentioned. 8

So time is very important, commitment as a volunteer. 9

And I would have to say that most LULAC members are very 01:55 10

overextended because we get asked a lot to do those kinds of 11

things like interpret and, you know, school districts want 12

LULACers and everybody wants the interpretation services that we 13

provide. So time is very limited but very important to us. 14

Were you active in your local LULAC council around the time 01:56 15 Q.

that Act 23 was adopted in July of 2011? 16

Yes, I've been active with my council since I joined it. 17 A.

And prior to the time that the voter ID law was adopted, 18 Q.

what were your council's priorities for 2011 and early 2012? 19

Yes. We actually had a health fair that was -- we were 01:56 20 A.

working on that we wanted to put on somewhere around the fall. 21

So we had decided early in the year probably around January that 22

we would do a fund-raiser and a health fair to get out some of 23

the information on obesity and diabetes and the diseases that 24

affect Hispanics. 01:56 25

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Were you able to move forward with your work on that health 1 Q.

fair during that late 2011 early 2012 time period? 2

No. Actually what our counsel did, which is what most of 3 A.

the councils did, is we pretty much shifted gears that year. 4

There was a lot of work to be done with the new requirements, 01:57 5

the new ID requirements that were coming down, and so we 6

actually shifted into more -- I think we probably spent at least 7

six months, maybe nine months on educating the people on what 8

the new law -- what the requirements were going to be for the 9

new law. And so we did not hold a health fair that year. 01:57 10

So you diverted your counsel's volunteer resources away from 11 Q.

women's health and committed them to addressing the voter ID 12

law; is that correct? 13

Yes. We actually felt that that took a much higher 14 A.

precedence because we were very, very worried that -- you know, 01:57 15

we had that big increase in voters from Hispanics and then we 16

were afraid that that was going to be lost with the new ID 17

requirements. So it took -- it just went up on the -- you know, 18

in importance as the health fair which was important, too, but 19

we just wanted to make sure that everybody got to vote. 01:58 20

What sorts of things did your counsel do to help voters 21 Q.

address the voter ID law? 22

Well, we went to the local trainings. I myself went to the 23 A.

-- Racine clerk held a training on all the new requirements. It 24

was a couple hours long. We got some material from there. We, 01:58 25

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you know, went to sessions in Kenosha. 1

So we were trying to hit all of the different 2

trainings that were going on in our community so that we would 3

understand what the new requirements were so that we could pass 4

that on. And then we held some information sessions and we 01:58 5

partnered with the Urban League. Again, I was the CEO of the 6

Urban League, but we partnered LULAC Council 325 and Council 320 7

partnered with the Urban League of Racine and Kenosha to hold 8

some information sessions in October of that year where we could 9

get the information out to the people on what they needed to do 01:59 10

with -- with the birth certificates, the areas where we thought 11

they were going to have problems getting the vote -- being able 12

to vote. 13

How many information sessions did you hold? 14 Q.

We held one in Kenosha in the fall and we held two in 01:59 15 A.

Racine, LULAC Council 325 did. So we held a total of three 16

sessions that I can remember. 17

Did you also work with individual voters helping them to try 18 Q.

to comply with the law? 19

Yes, we did. One of the members of another council, 320, is 01:59 20 A.

Irene Santos. She was a long-time leader in Kenosha and used to 21

be, she's retired director of the Spanish Center. And so we 22

actually, you know, I actually would meet with her regularly and 23

give her material that she needed to give to the more 24

Spanish-speaking people, the people with the language barrier 02:00 25

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that she sees. And actually I actually had some -- some days 1

that I went there with some groups of people that we, you know, 2

that didn't speak the language well and didn't read Spanish 3

because there was some material provided in Spanish but there's 4

a lot -- lot of this population does not even read Spanish. So 02:00 5

we even have to read the Spanish version to them. So it's not 6

like they can pick up the Spanish version and understand what 7

it's saying. There's a large majority of the people that we 8

serve through LULAC do not read English or Spanish. 9

What do you understand Act 23 to require in terms of voter 02:00 10 Q.

identification? 11

Well, it required an ID card. Some kind of, you know, 12 A.

government issued ID card. And lot of people just didn't have 13

that, including a lot of the trainees that I was training at the 14

Urban League. There was just a large -- I wanna say over 02:01 15

50 percent of the individuals that I dealt with through LULAC 16

and through the Urban League did not have an ID card. Many came 17

from Illinois. They weren't even -- hadn't been in Wisconsin 18

that long or they came from another state. So I understood -- 19

you know, we understood that they needed first and foremost a 02:01 20

valid ID card, a Wisconsin ID card. 21

I think you mentioned a little bit about this, but did the 22 Q.

Urban League also devote its resources to help voters comply 23

with the voter ID law? 24

Yes. We also diverted our plan of action that year and we 02:01 25 A.

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made sure -- I made sure that everybody went to the sessions 1

that were being held by the municipal clerks. And we were -- we 2

held a couple of sessions ourselves at the Urban League just for 3

our target population on what the changes were. 4

Lot of paper dissemination, so we did a lot of 02:02 5

photocopying and a lot of distributing of information. You 6

know, at a time when we were busy trying to find money because 7

we were out of money at the Urban League of Racine and Kenosha. 8

We were -- it was right during the period where we had lost 9

significant funding and really I needed to be out there finding 02:02 10

money as a CEO, but I was out there going to voter registration 11

sessions or registrar sessions and things like that so I could, 12

you know, get educated myself. 13

And did you personally interact with black and Latino voters 14 Q.

who were having difficulty complying with Act 23? 02:02 15

Yes, I did. I was a voter registrar for both counties so I 16 A.

did. And I did the door knocking as I previously mentioned. I, 17

you know, was with Irene Santos when we were explaining the 18

requirements to the people. 19

And when you were explaining the requirements of Act 23 to 02:03 20 Q.

voters, what sorts of responses did you get? 21

Again, most of the people that we deal and we dealt with do 22 A.

not have the -- you know, updated ID cards. So -- and again, 23

you know, the similar problem I've heard it in some of the 24

previous testimony, you know, the birth certificate. They 02:03 25

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didn't have it. 1

So there were a couple of cases where we, you know, 2

went online and went into trying to order the birth certificate. 3

So the birth certificate -- having that actual birth certificate 4

to be able to get an ID card was -- most of the people, that's 02:03 5

where they fell short. 6

At an even more basic level did the voters that you interact 7 Q.

with understand that a voter ID was required? 8

They didn't. So that was the first piece, we had to let 9 A.

them know what the new requirements were. And then it was 02:04 10

helping them so that they could get an ID card. 11

Did they understand the state offered in -- my question was 12 Q.

did the other voters that you interacted with understand that 13

they could get free ID cards from the State of Wisconsin for the 14

purpose of voting? 02:04 15

No. I would say most all of them did not. So that was the 16 A.

first education piece was educating them on the new requirements 17

and then secondly helping them meet those requirements. 18

In addition to your conversations with voters did you 19 Q.

observe other problems that prevented black and Latino voters in 02:05 20

Kenosha and Racine from getting the IDs needed to vote? 21

Yes, I did. 22 A.

What were those? 23 Q.

Transportation. Even bus money to get on the buses to go to 24 A.

the DMV. In Kenosha the DMV is out in the county and it is 02:05 25

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anywhere between an hour and a half-day wait. I heard that 1

mentioned before, it's the same in Kenosha. So transportation 2

was the first problem and then actually the long lines and the 3

traditional waiting at the DMV even before people started going 4

to get the new IDs. We already had backlogs with the lines 02:05 5

before this came up at our DMV in Kenosha. 6

And did the length of time for transportation and the delays 7 Q.

at the DMV discourage people from trying to get their IDs? 8

Yes, in my opinion it did. I had trainees who were W-2 9 A.

Wisconsin work trainees, who even though I was going to give 02:06 10

them time to go get the ID, just didn't have the money -- didn't 11

have the birth certificate, again, and didn't have even the 12

money for the bus to get out there. So it definitely -- it 13

definitely affected their ability to vote that year. 14

You mentioned that through the Urban League and through 02:06 15 Q.

LULAC you distributed some Spanish language materials related to 16

Act 23. Do you recall that? 17

Yes. I did. 18 A.

Who prepared those materials? 19 Q.

I actually have a copy. And I'm not sure who did. I think 02:06 20 A.

it was the GAB. It doesn't have anything on the bottom. But 21

again, a lot of the people couldn't read it because they don't 22

read Spanish so we still were interpreting, reading. 23

And did you receive any materials from the GAB on Act 23 24 Q.

that were in Spanish? 02:07 25

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That might have been the only one. I think I might have 1 A.

received it when I went to the training at the Racine clerk's 2

office. The material that she provided to us was a thick 3

packet. I have a copy of it here. We each got to take, I 4

think, 10 and that was it. So then we were -- at the Urban 02:07 5

League and LULAC we needed to reproduce any additional copies. 6

I think this is the packet. It's quite thick. So it's 7

double-sided. It was just -- it's just a lot to copy, but this 8

is what we were provided. 9

So as far as you were aware was there any outreach by the 02:07 10 Q.

GAB through Spanish language media? 11

Not that I'm aware of.12 A.

Was there any outreach by the GAB regarding Act 23 through 13 Q.

Spanish language newspapers? 14

I'm not sure. We receive -- at the Urban League in LULAC we 02:07 15 A.

receive the El Conquistador from Milwaukee and I don't recall if 16

there was anything in there. So I couldn't answer that 17

question. 18

Are you aware of any outreach by the GAB about Act 23 19 Q.

through Spanish language radio or television? 02:08 20

I'm not aware of any. 21 A.

Through your work with voters in Kenosha and Racine to 22 Q.

confront Act 23, are you aware of particular African-American or 23

Latino voters who were not able to vote as a result of the voter 24

ID law? 02:08 25

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Yes. I actually had trainees at the Urban League who were 1 A.

not able to vote because they just did not get that ID card for 2

the reasons I stated, the transportation issues and the cost. 3

And I actually could name five that did not go vote that year 4

even though I pushed and pushed to get them to do it they just 02:08 5

never did it. 6

Could you name those people for the Court, please? 7 Q.

Yes, I can. I had -- Danette Smith, D-A-N-E-T-T-E, 8 A.

S-M-I-T-H, she was a Wisconsin works trainee. Ciera Wilson, 9

C-I-E-R-A, W-I-L-S-O-N. William Henderson, W-I-L-L-I-A-M, 02:09 10

H-E-N-D-E-R-S-O-N. Kanisha Shenault, K-A-N-I-S-H-A, 11

S-H-E-N-A-U-L-T. And I had a Raymond Berryman, R-A-Y-M-O-N-D, 12

B-E-R-R-Y-M-A-N. Those I had in their files as trainees that I 13

had been encouraging to vote and get registered, but failed to 14

do so because of the reasons I mentioned. 02:10 15

And those reasons are that they could not provide photo 16 Q.

identification to comply with Act 23; is that correct? 17

Correct. 18 A.

And what are the races of those individuals, if you know? 19 Q.

Those were all African-Americans. 02:10 20 A.

You mentioned earlier Urban League's get-out-the-vote 21 Q.

efforts; do you recall that? 22

Yes. 23 A.

And as part of that effort does Urban League call voters 24 Q.

before every election? 02:10 25

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Yes. Our affiliate since I've been the CEO in September in 1 A.

2006, we always the month before an election obtain a voter 2

registration or a voter list from the aldermen of our districts 3

and we start making phone calls and we encourage -- we remind 4

people about the election and we remind them that they can get, 02:11 5

if they know anyone that they can get registered at the Urban 6

League and we encourage them to go vote on election day, again 7

nonpartisan. 8

And approximately how many voters does Urban League 9 Q.

typically call before an election? 02:11 10

Up between 200 and maybe 300. 11 A.

And is that 200 to 300 total or in each county -- 12 Q.

In each county. In each county. 13 A.

And again we need to avoid talking over each other. 14 Q.

And who makes the telephone calls? 02:11 15

I assign it to whichever trainee. I have seven different 16 A.

subsidized training programs at the Urban League and the 17

trainees that I feel are good on the phones, that's who I assign 18

it to. 19

And are the voters that you call typically black and Latino? 02:11 20 Q.

Many of them are because of the neighborhoods that we're in. 21 A.

And again it's the voters that we call are the voters in our 22

district. So I would say a large majority are Hispanic and 23

Latinos. 24

You mean African-American and Latinos. 02:12 25 Q.

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I'm sorry, yes. 1 A.

And when you made calls prior to the February 2012 election, 2 Q.

did you inform voters during those calls about the voter ID law 3

that was in effect? 4

Yes. Yes, I did. 02:12 5 A.

And what did you tell them? 6 Q.

We informed them -- we actually had a script and we let them 7 A.

know that there was now an ID requirement and that they 8

needed -- if they needed more information they could come to the 9

Urban League but that they were going to have to meet that 02:12 10

requirement to be able to vote, if they were not already 11

registered, their family members. 12

Most of the individuals we called were already -- had 13

already voted in the past, but we know that a lot of their 14

family members and their neighbors don't vote so we also would 02:13 15

encourage them to get their neighbors to get out and vote. 16

And what sorts of responses did you get about the voter ID 17 Q.

law? 18

Initially, they didn't know. A lot of the individuals did 19 A.

not know about that, that new requirement. So I guess that led 02:13 20

me to believe that they don't read the newspaper. It was in the 21

Kenosha News a lot and the Racine Journal Times. But a large 22

majority just did not know. 23

Are you aware that a state court enjoined the voter ID law 24 Q.

in March of 2012? 02:13 25

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No. 1 A.

Are you aware that the law is no longer in effect now? 2 Q.

Yes. 3 A.

And that's because a state court issued an order that said 4 Q.

it can't be enforced, correct? 02:13 5

Yes. 6 A.

Was there a time when the Urban League had to call voters in 7 Q.

connection with an election and tell them that there was no more 8

voter ID? 9

Yes. Then we did that. So we made an extra effort in 02:14 10 A.

addition to our normal effort to inform them that that was no 11

longer a requirement, that it was on hold. 12

And what was the response you got to that information? 13 Q.

Most of the responses from what the trainees told me was 14 A.

that they were not very happy. They weren't aware and they were 02:14 15

not happy with the -- what was going on. 16

When you say not happy, in what sense? 17 Q.

They were disturbed that -- some of them were disturbed that 18 A.

they were getting a second call because sometimes they don't 19

like to get those calls because they're getting all the calls 02:14 20

from the elected official or the candidates. But they were just 21

pretty much from, I'm trying to remember some of the things that 22

were passed on to me but they were just -- they were very -- 23

they were upset, they were just upset that it had changed again. 24

Frustrated. I should use that word. 02:15 25

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Was there confusion surrounding the change in the law? 1 Q.

Yes, confused and frustrated. 2 A.

MR. ULIN: At this point I have no further questions 3

for the witness. Thank you, Mrs. Adams. 4


BY MR. KAWSKI: 6

Good afternoon, Ms. Santos. My name is Clay Kawski. I have 7 Q.

a few questions for you. 8

Sure. 9 A.

You've testified that you've been involved with LULAC for 02:15 10 Q.

quite some time. You were the treasurer or you're currently the 11

treasurer? 12

Correct. 13 A.

And were the former state director? 14 Q.

Correct. 02:15 15 A.

What is the organizational mission of LULAC? 16 Q.

It is to improve the economic education, attainment, 17 A.

educational attainment and it is also to -- it is also voter 18

empowerment. It is about advocating for Hispanics and it is for 19

about empowering Hispanics. That is our mission. 02:16 20

And as you were testifying I was looking at LULAC's website 21 Q.

and I'd like to quote for you what the website says LULAC's 22

motion is and you can tell me if this is your understanding as 23

well. 24

"LULAC's mission is to advance the economic condition, 02:16 25

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educational attainment, political influence, housing, health, 1

and civil rights of the Hispanic population of the United 2

States."3

Does that sound correct? 4

Yes. 02:16 5 A.

Is it your understanding that the voter ID law applies to 6 Q.

voters? 7

The voter ID law applies to all citizens. 8 A.

And what it creates is a requirement that someone who is a 9 Q.

voter needs to show an ID before getting a ballot. That's your 02:16 10

understanding? 11

Yes. 12 A.

And so does Act 23, the voter ID law, create any 13 Q.

requirements for organizations? 14

As advocates for LULAC we are their voice, so we are an 02:16 15 A.

organization that speaks for our constituents. So it's hard to 16

answer that question. We are the people. We're their voice. 17

I guess my question is: Was it your understanding that 18 Q.

Act 23 required LULAC to do anything? 19

MR. ULIN: Objection. Lacks foundation. 02:17 20

THE COURT: She can answer if she can. 21

THE WITNESS: The new requirement did not call on 22

LULAC to do anything, but LULAC always gets out the vote and 23

gets involved in voter education and empowerment. 24

BY MR. KAWSKI:02:17 25

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You said that there were a few individuals that you pushed 1 Q.

and pushed to try and make sure they got their ID for voting. 2

And you mentioned their names. There were five of them, 3

African-American individuals: Danette Smith, Ciera Wilson, 4

William Henderson, Kanisha Shenault and Raymond Berryman? 02:17 5

Yes. 6 A.

What did you do to encourage those folks to get them their 7 Q.

ID? 8

I offered them time off to go in to the DMV. I encouraged 9 A.

them. And they kept -- they wanted to but they just never got 02:18 10

around to it I guess. But, you know, lot of them just didn't 11

want to go wait in that DMV. So one of the main reasons they 12

didn't go was, again, they didn't want to take the bus way out 13

there and they didn't want to wait for three or four hours. So 14

it was a hindrance to them and they didn't want to take off the 02:18 15

whole afternoon to do it. So -- 16

Did you ever encourage them to investigate what the best 17 Q.

time was to go to avoid the lines? 18

I've been living in Kenosha all my life and there is no best 19 A.

time to go to the DMV. You always have a long wait. That is my 02:18 20

experience with our DMV. 21

Have you ever called ahead to find out when there aren't 22 Q.

wait times? 23

No, I think -- I'm fortunate enough that I can do everything 24 A.

online now. So I pay online with a debit card. I don't go to 02:19 25

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the DMV. As an organization, we've actually complained about 1

the -- you know, actually complained to them about that very 2

problem. 3

But you've never actually called DMV to find out if there 4 Q.

were any times where they were not as busy? 02:19 5

No, I did not. 6 A.

The five individuals that you mentioned that you pushed and 7 Q.

pushed, were they LULAC members? 8

They were trainees at the Urban League. 9 A.

So -- 02:19 10 Q.

They were not LULAC members. 11 A.

How do you become a LULAC member? 12 Q.

You usually find out about LULAC through one of the sessions 13 A.

that we hold. We do education sessions, we do registration 14

drives and things like that. So usually by word of mouth or, 02:19 15

you know, something you see when we're doing an event like the 16

state convention or just a local registration drive and then -- 17

or, you know, a friend will tell you and then you'll join LULAC. 18

We have not just Hispanics in LULAC, we have diversity 19

in LULAC. So we have Caucasians, we have African-Americans in 02:20 20

LULAC, and we have Hispanics in LULAC. So we're not an 21

organization of just Hispanics. 22

Is there something that someone would receive to show that 23 Q.

they are a LULAC member like a membership card or something like 24

that? 02:20 25

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Adams/Cross


Yes. When you pay your membership dues to a local council 1 A.

you become a member and you do receive a membership card and a 2

pin. 3

Are you aware of any dues-paying members of LULAC that were 4 Q.

not able to get a qualifying ID? 02:20 5

I'm aware of some LULAC members who knew of individuals who 6 A.

could not get an ID card and one of my local Council 325 members 7

who is not here has attested to the fact that there were people 8

that could not go that she was trying to get to assist through 9

LULAC. So there were people that I know we can identify through 02:21 10

our council, but I don't have those names. 11

So sitting here today, you're not aware of and are not able 12 Q.

to identify any LULAC member that was unable to get a qualifying 13

ID. 14

I'm not positive. Through the help I was given, Irene 02:21 15 A.

Santos, of the individuals that were not able to come up with 16

the birth certificates I'm not certain that none of them were 17

members of LULAC. They could have been of a different council. 18

Are you here today representing LULAC? 19 Q.

I am representing LULAC. 02:21 20 A.

You are also representing the Urban League? 21 Q.

Because there was such a close partnership between LULAC and 22 A.

the Urban League I'm representing LULAC, but speaking of the 23

experience with the Urban League partner. 24

And you understand that only LULAC is a plaintiff in this 02:22 25 Q.

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case. 1

Yes, I do understand that. I am here representing LULAC. 2 A.

MR. KAWSKI: Thank you very much. 3

THE WITNESS: You're welcome. 4

MR. ULIN: We have no further questions. 02:22 5

THE COURT: Okay, thank you. 6



MR. EICHNER: Your Honor, the LULAC plaintiffs call 9

Carmen Cabrera. 02:22 10

CARMEN CABRERA, PLAINTIFF WITNESS, DULY SWORN 11


BY MR. EICHNER: 13

Good afternoon, Ms. Cabrera. 14 Q.

Good afternoon. 02:22 15 A.

Can you please state your name and spell it for the record? 16 Q.

My name is Carmen Cabrera, C-A-R-M-E-N, C-A-B, as in boy, 17 A.

R-E-R-A. 18

Just get real close to the microphone so the court reporter 19 Q.

can hear you. Where do you currently work? 02:23 20

I'm currently employed at the Council for the Spanish 21 A.

Speaking, better known as the Spanish Center. 22

How long have you worked there? 23 Q.

This coming March will be six years. 24 A.

What are your current responsibilities there? 02:23 25 Q.

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I am currently the HUD services coordinator. I am the go-to 1 A.

person for the seniors that reside in six of our buildings that 2

we own which are HUD subsidized. 3

And what services do you provide to the people in those 4 Q.

buildings? 02:23 5

Like I say, I am the go-to person. I identified resources 6 A.

in the community for whatever needs they might have, be it, you 7

know, medical, legal, and so on. 8

And how long have you been the HUD services coordinator? 9 Q.

I would say for the past four years. 02:24 10 A.

Four years. Did you say four years? 11 Q.

Yes. 12 A.

Okay. And during that time did you also have other 13 Q.

responsibilities? 14

I certainly have. For the 2012 I got moved from my position 02:24 15 A.

into another one which was doing civic engagement work in the 16

Latino community. 17

When did you start doing civic engagement in 2012? 18 Q.

We received a grant in February of 2012 and that's when my 19 A.

duties began. 02:24 20

And where did you do the work, the civic engagement work 21 Q.

that the grant covered? 22

The grant specifically was to hire a Latino individual who 23 A.

could convene a Latinos roundtable to build capacity within the 24

Latinos community. And based on data we identified the least 02:25 25

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performing wards in the city of Milwaukee which out of 16, 13 1

happened to be in the near south side. So the bulk of my work 2

concentrated in wards in the 8th aldermanic district as well as 3

the 12th aldermanic district. 4

What was the criteria for determining which areas were the 02:25 5 Q.

least performing? 6

Well, because we partnered the grant came through Wisconsin 7 A.

Voices. And they utilize the resources, you know, to come up 8

with all the data, the research, and the numbers. 9

Did they look at things like income or education or what 02:26 10 Q.

kind of things do they look at, if you know? 11

Okay. I believe it was determined that voting age and what 12 A.

percentage of, you know, voting age Latinos lived in certain 13

wards and how active they have been. 14

So when you say "least performing" does that mean that they 02:26 15 Q.

had the lowest voting participation rates? 16

Yes. I would say out of the data that I was given, the 17 A.

highest percentage of Latinos that will go out to vote would be 18

maybe 33 percent in any given election. 19

That's the number of eligible voters who actually vote? 02:26 20 Q.

No. When the eligible Latinos would be like 88 percent 21 A.

there's still, you know, would be a very low turnout. 22

So the 33 percent is overall. 23 Q.

Overall, yes. 24 A.

Okay. And what were the racial and ethnic demographics of 02:27 25 Q.

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the communities that the grant was targeted towards? 1

I'm sorry? 2 A.

Sure. The communities that were identified as being the 3 Q.

place that you were going to work under the grant, what were the 4

demographics, the racial or ethnic demographics of those areas? 02:27 5

Okay. Well, I would say that the aldermanic district right 6 A.

now it's at like 70 percent Hispanic and the 8th aldermanic 7

district is becoming -- soon probably be majority minority as 8

well. 9

And were those demographics similar when you did the work in 02:27 10 Q.

2012? 11

Yes. 12 A.

And so overall what percentage of the people that were in 13 Q.

the areas that were targeted by the grant were Latinos? 14

I would say 75 percent. 02:28 15 A.

And were those low income neighborhoods, high income 16 Q.

neighborhoods, mixed? 17

Yeah, unfortunately we're speaking about an area where the 18 A.

majority of people are below income, you know, poverty line. 19

You said the majority? 02:28 20 Q.

Yeah. 21 A.

And did you actually do civic engagement work in those 22 Q.

communities? 23

During 2012 or before that? 24 A.

In 2012. 02:28 25 Q.

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Yes. Definitely. 1 A.

And what were the challenges that you faced in doing civic 2 Q.

engagement in those communities? 3

Like the facts state, there are people that are eligible to 4 A.

vote, but that don't do it. They don't go out. So our job was 02:29 5

to educate them, motivate them, engage them in the system. And 6

it was quite challenging. 7

What do you attribute the fact that there's such a low 8 Q.

percentage of people registered in those neighborhoods? 9

You know, there's not one specific factor. I would say 02:29 10 A.

there's many. Obviously, the language barrier, not 11

understanding, you know, the system, transportation, and just 12

something as basic as the mechanics of knowing how to vote. 13

There are still people that never been to a polling location, 14

they don't know the system, how, you know, actually to, you 02:29 15

know, connect the little arrow. 16

And you said that there are also transportation issues, what 17 Q.

are those transportation issues? 18

Especially in an area that is plagued by so much I would say 19 A.

poverty. And even with the seniors not having a car, you know, 02:30 20

creates a problem for them. 21

And is there a lack of good information about how you access 22 Q.

the voting system in those communities? 23

I would say so. Yes. 24 A.

And are there any other challenges that are faced by those 02:30 25 Q.

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Cabrera/Direct


communities in terms of registration and voting? 1

Okay. The challenges that I described, like I said, the 2 A.

language barrier is a big one. Most information that's out 3

there unfortunately is in English. So a lot of nonprofit 4

organizations like ours have to take it upon ourselves, you 02:31 5

know, to educate people where when certain institutions perhaps 6

should play a greater role in doing that. 7

And is there also because of the language barrier other 8 Q.

things, confusion about who can vote, how you vote, where you 9

vote, those kind of things? 02:31 10

Right. And especially in the Puerto Rican community, there 11 A.

was a time when -- especially when the voter ID law came into 12

play, a lot of Puerto Ricans were faced with the problem of 13

obtaining a new birth certificate in order to get a Wisconsin 14

ID. 02:31 15

So let's talk about that for a minute. So you were doing 16 Q.

the civic engagement work when the voter ID law came into 17

effect; is that right? 18

Right. 19 A.

And how did the voter ID law going into effect impact the 02:32 20 Q.

civic engagement work that you were doing in those communities? 21

First it was a matter of having to, you know, get the word 22 A.

out, educate people, you know, that this was going to happen, 23

that they needed to prepare, otherwise they wouldn't be able to 24

vote. 02:32 25

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And why did groups like yours have to be the one to get the 1 Q.

word out in those communities? 2

Because unfortunately those institutions that I mentioned 3 A.

previously that wanted to create these changes perhaps didn't 4

take that into account. There's a constituency out there that 02:32 5

is not maybe as, for lack of a better term, sophisticated, you 6

know, that they might need a little bit more education perhaps 7

in their native language. 8

And were you aware of efforts by the State of Wisconsin in 9 Q.

the neighborhoods you were involved in to educate people about 02:33 10

the law? 11

Not at all. 12 A.

So as part of your efforts during that time period, February 13 Q.

of 2012, you talked to people about the voter ID law and its 14

requirements? 02:33 15

Right. The agency that I worked for also received a small 16 A.

grant to hire someone specifically to target the Latino 17

community and provide this information. 18

And when you or others from your organization did this 19 Q.

outreach into Latino community and did your civic engagement 02:33 20

efforts, did you encounter people who didn't have the kinds of 21

ID that were required under the law? 22

A lot of them. 23 A.

And do you have a sense of what percentage of people in the 24 Q.

community that you talked to didn't have that ID? 02:34 25

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Cabrera/Direct


I would say about 50 percent. 1 A.

Would you say is that 50 percent of eligible voters or 50 2 Q.

percent of everybody? 3

No, everyone. 4 A.

So you would say about half. 02:34 5 Q.

Half. 6 A.

Okay. Of those eligible voters who didn't have ID, what 7 Q.

percentage of them were Latino? 8

I would say three-quarters. 9 A.

And of Latino voters what percentage of them didn't have ID? 02:34 10 Q.

Half. 11 A.

And why didn't these people have ID? 12 Q.

A lot of them -- there's various reasons. Some of them 13 A.

might have had an ID although it was expired. A lot of them 14

didn't have the documents needed to obtain an ID. Some just 02:35 15

never had applied for one. 16

And when you say some of them didn't have the documents that 17 Q.

you needed to get ID, what documents were they missing? 18

Birth certificates. 19 A.

Why didn't they have birth certificates? 02:35 20 Q.

Well, I can -- I'm alluding to specifically the Puerto Rican 21 A.

constituency, because of that newly enacted law where the birth 22

certificates that were granted since like 1934 became null and 23

now everyone has to reapply and it became, you know -- you know, 24

cumbersome for some people having to send away to Puerto Rico 02:36 25

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Cabrera/Direct


for those documents. 1

For those people who hadn't applied to get an ID, did you do 2 Q.

anything to help them try and get ID? 3

Yes. We facilitated rides. We had to stand in line with 4 A.

them. We had to help fill out forms and, you know, just be the 02:36 5

facilitating the entire process because unfortunately there was 6

nobody at DMV capable of doing that. 7

And why was there no one at DMV capable of doing that? 8 Q.

I don't think they had assigned personnel to deal with the 9 A.

situation. I mean, basically they give you a form which is in 02:37 10

English and then they send you on your way. 11

Were there forms available in Spanish when you went to the 12 Q.

DMV? 13

I didn't see any. 14 A.

Were there people available to provide translation or assist 02:37 15 Q.

people other than you and your organization at the DMV? 16

They have bilingual personnel but they're assigned their 17 A.

regular duties so I didn't see them outside of their little 18

counters, you know, providing any type of direction. 19

And I think you may have said this but just for the record, 02:37 20 Q.

so you also provided transportation to people? 21

Yes. 22 A.

Okay. And how many people would you say you or others from 23 Q.

your organization helped take to the DMV in the February 2012 24

time period? 02:37 25

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I personally took around 20 individuals, but then again we 1 A.

know that there are a number of organizations and efforts in the 2

community trying to do similar work. 3

And did you have the ability to take everyone to the DMV who 4 Q.

you know needed your help? 02:38 5

No. To this day I feel badly that I have lists of people 6 A.

that, you know, had wanted to go but I wasn't able to reach them 7

all. 8

And did the people you came in contact with in 2012, in 9 Q.

February, did they know that there was an opportunity to get 02:38 10

free IDs? 11

Not originally, no. Unless we publicized it. Not many 12 A.

people knew. 13

And are you aware that the -- that Act 23, the ID law is no 14 Q.

longer in effect? 02:38 15

Yes. 16 A.

Well, let me back up for a minute. What was the impact -- 17 Q.

are you aware that there was an election in February of 2012? 18

Yes. 19 A.

And what was the impact from your observations of the 02:38 20 Q.

communities you served about the impact of the voter ID law on 21

that February 2012 election? 22

Low turnout. Confusion. 23 A.

What was the confusion? 24 Q.

Well, at first we have to go out at the last minute and run 02:39 25 A.

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up information and try and disseminate it to as many people as 1

possible. You need IDs and then the law changes and, yeah, 2

obviously a lot of the constituency that I'm speaking about 3

unless they hear something from a trusted source they might not 4

deem it true. So there was a lot of confusion whether yeah, you 02:39 5

do or you don't. 6

So were you saying that there was confusion in the February 7 Q.

2012 election or there was confusion in subsequent elections? 8

In subsequent, I would say. 9 A.

And say a little more about that, why were people confused 02:40 10 Q.

after the law was put on hold? 11

The people that I'm referring to -- and I hate to say the 12 A.

people, us, me, I'm part of it, I live there, you know, all my 13

life I grew up there. Understanding our cultural background, 14

you know, a lot of times you have to hear or get your 02:40 15

information from a credible source, you know, before you place 16

any validity on it and unfortunately I don't think there was a 17

real big effort out in the community clarifying the reason and 18

what really was going on. And to this day there are people that 19

still think that you need IDs. 02:41 20

So overall how would you describe the impact of Act 23 on 21 Q.

the Latino community? 22

It's been, what can I say, it's like another blow to us. 23 A.

You know, being faced with so many challenges in life, you know, 24

poverty, unemployment, violence in our community, and here we go 02:41 25

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Cabrera/Cross


again. Now it's like such a simple act as, you know, being able 1

to participate in a democracy where people should have an 2

opportunity to -- you know, to get engaged and have a voice 3

especially in our communities, you know, and to bring about 4

changes, and I just think that this is so unnecessary. And that 02:41 5

it put a real big burden on us, you know, on our community, on 6

us. 7

Thank you. 8 Q.

I have no more questions. 9


BY MS. LAZAR: 11

Good afternoon, Ms. Cabrera. 12 Q.

Hello. 13 A.

You indicated that you worked for the Spanish Center, 14 Q.

correct? 02:42 15

Yes. 16 A.

And you said in February of 2012 you got a grant -- the 17 Q.

center got a grant from Wisconsin Voices? 18

Yes. 19 A.

What is that group? 02:42 20 Q.

Wisconsin Voices, specifically the state Wisconsin Voices, 21 A.

it is -- how do I say this, an effort to bring about similar 22

groups that are dedicated or committed to social justice and 23

equality for everybody in this country. 24

Okay. And you indicated that the grant was to hire a Latino 02:43 25 Q.

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Cabrera/Cross


individual to convene a roundtable to build capacity in the 1

Latino community. What do you mean by that? 2

Okay. Specifically that would be sort of building a network 3 A.

among grass root efforts -- organizations in the community and 4

we focus primarily on nonprofits who have similar shared values, 02:43 5

you know, of equality, social justice for everyone, to educate 6

and encourage, and mobilize people to get out and vote. 7

You indicated that there was several challenges and the 8 Q.

majority challenge you indicated was that people eligible to 9

vote just don't do it? And is that because they don't have the 02:43 10

identification or they don't want to vote? 11

Well, unfortunately I think as our Latino community has 12 A.

grown significantly, you know, nationwide there is a trend, yes, 13

we are growing, but we are not voting. 14

But that didn't answer my question whether they were -- they 02:44 15 Q.

were people that didn't have the identification to vote or 16

didn't want to vote, the challenge you were describing. 17

They're eligible and you want me to explain to you why 18 A.

they're not voting? 19

Yes. 02:44 20 Q.

Okay. I mentioned a number of reasons. It's either they 21 A.

have issues with language, they don't understand the system, 22

they don't know where to go, you know, and they're just -- you 23

know, that's as best as I can say what I mentioned previously. 24

Okay. You also indicated that there was a lack of good 02:44 25 Q.

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Cabrera/Cross


information and that you had not or were not aware of any 1

Spanish outreach by the state or by the GAB; is that correct? 2

Right. 3 A.

Are you aware or were you aware at the time of programs such 4 Q.

as bring-it-to-the-ballot which would have been provided in 02:45 5

Spanish? 6

Bring-it-to-the-ballot? 7 A.

Yes. 8 Q.

No. 9 A.

Okay. You indicated that the -- there was a problem with 02:45 10 Q.

the Puerto Rican community due to the new birth certificates. 11

If you know, do you know what the issue was surrounding why 12

there's the issue with pre-1990 birth certificates? 13

What was the issue? 14 A.

Right. 02:45 15 Q.

Of the government deciding to null the previous birth 16 A.

certificates? 17

Yes. 18 Q.

Apparently it was based on they identified fraudulent 19 A.

practices by certain immigrant communities in Puerto Rico. 02:46 20

Now, you indicated that you were aware that many people -- 21 Q.

or you said actually your term was a lot of people lacked 22

identification in the Latino community; is that correct? 23

Uh-huh, yeah. 24 A.

You said some of them had identification forms but they had 02:46 25 Q.

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expired, correct? 1

Yes. Some had expired, yes. 2 A.

Are you aware that some identification cards such as 3 Q.

passports and driver's licenses are still effective if they've 4

expired recently? 02:46 5

Okay, well, passports you rarely find Puerto Ricans unless 6 A.

maybe they're affluent and they travel a lot with passports 7

because it's not required of us. And yeah, I know that there's 8

a rule as long as it's like two years prior to. But -- yeah. 9

I'm aware of that. 02:47 10

All right. You indicated that some of your assistance was 11 Q.

helping people going to the DMVs and you indicated that you did 12

not see any Spanish forms at the DMVs. Did you ask for any? 13

No. Because right up front there was a sign that said 14 A.

free -- you know, for free IDs. It could have been in Spanish 02:47 15

right then and there. It was right at the point of you entering 16

and I didn't see anything so I figured if they couldn't put the 17

form bilingually -- 18

I'm sorry, I didn't want to cross over you. You said you 19 Q.

saw signs that were only in English. 02:47 20

One sign. 21 A.

One sign. Okay. You also indicated that there was some 22 Q.

bilingual personnel, did you ever ask for assistance from anyone 23

who could help translate? 24

No. Because I don't think being that there's always a big 02:48 25 A.

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line heading out to the street that their supervisor would allow 1

them to leave their post just so they could come and, you know, 2

and walk around with, you know, like 10 people at a time helping 3

them writing, taking them to get a photo, waiting over here. 4

You further indicated that it was your impression that the 02:48 5 Q.

February 2012 election when Act 23 was in effect, that there was 6

a low voter turnout. Was that a -- what election was -- or 7

elections were held in that February 2012 time period? 8

The elections of 2012? 9 A.

Primary. 02:48 10 Q.

Primaries? 11 A.

Primaries. Do you know if that was a low voter turnout 12 Q.

because it was a primary? 13

Probably. They usually are. 14 A.

You also mentioned that people in the community, the Latino 02:49 15 Q.

community, could not get information or do not get information 16

from a credible source. What do you consider a credible source, 17

the El Conquistador or other -- 18

No, I'm not talking about local Latino newspapers. A 19 A.

credible source would be some governmental entity. 02:49 20

Okay. So you're saying that there should have -- you would 21 Q.

have wanted to have seen something from the State of Wisconsin. 22

State of Wisconsin, yeah. 23 A.

Okay. Do you know the names of anyone been who was 24 Q.

prevented from voting in that February 2012 election due to a 02:49 25

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lack of ID? 1

No. 2 A.

MS. LAZAR: I have no further questions. Thank you. 3


(Witness excused at 2:50 p.m.) 02:49 5

THE COURT: I just have -- the Frank Plaintiffs 6

mentioned Exhibit 598 but I don't think we have it. It's not in 7

the -- okay. Let's take a break. Come back a little after -- 8

two minutes after 3:00. 9

THE BAILIFF: All rise. 02:50 10


LUIS GARZA, PLAINTIFF WITNESS, DULY SWORN 12

THE COURT: State your name for the record. Spell 13

your names and talk real close to that microphone. 14

THE WITNESS: I certainly will. My name is Luis 03:04 15

Garza. L-U-I-S, G-A-R-Z-A. 16


BY MR. FOSTER: 18

Nathan Foster on behalf of the Jones and LULAC plaintiffs. 19 Q.

Good afternoon, Mr. Garza. 03:05 20


Mr. Garza, can you tell us where you live, please? 22 Q.

I live in Racine, Wisconsin. 23 A.

And what do you do for work? 24 Q.

I'm an attorney. 03:05 25 A.

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Where do you currently practice law? 1 Q.

I practice in Racine, Kenosha, Walworth and Milwaukee 2 A.

Counties, primarily in family law. I also work in Milwaukee 3

County in immigration law in a very specified area. 4

What's the name of your practice? 03:05 5 Q.

Nonprofit Legal Services South. It's an affiliate of 6 A.

Nonprofit Legal Services of Southeast Wisconsin. 7

And what kind of practice do you have in Nonprofit Legal 8 Q.

Services South? 9

Primarily family law. I've done DUI cases, a couple of 03:06 10 A.

cases relative to civil actions. But primarily family law. 11

Do you serve primarily lower income clients in that 12 Q.

practice? 13

Almost exclusively. 14 A.

Do you serve Latino clients in that practice? 03:06 15 Q.


How long have you been in that practice? 17 Q.

I began, again, in April of 2012. Before that I was working 18 A.

full-time over with United Migrant Opportunity Services, more 19

commonly known as you UMOS, Incorporated. 03:06 20

How long were you at UMOS? 21 Q.

I worked there twice, first time from 1976 to '78 and then 22 A.

again from 2006 to the present. 23

What did you do there particularly from 2006 to the present? 24 Q.

My first employment with them was the director of 03:07 25 A.

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disability, legal disability services advocacy. And from there 1

I became deputy corporate attorney. And from there I headed up 2

an immigration initiative program as well as became the SSI 3

legal advocate, the disability law illegal advocate, and the 4

immigration services legal advocate. 03:07 5

And what is the mission of UMOS? 6 Q.

UMOS provides a sundry of different services to historically 7 A.

underserved people in the state of Wisconsin, primarily low and 8

moderate income and no income in the areas of employment, 9

education, health services, domestic violence advocacy, and 03:07 10

housing for migrant and seasonal farm workers and employment for 11

migrant and seasonal farm workers. 12

Fair to say in your time working at UMOS you've had 13 Q.

significant experience working with low income populations in 14

Wisconsin? 03:08 15

Almost exclusively. 16 A.

Significantly Latino operation served by UMOS as well? 17 Q.

Yes. 18 A.

What are some other jobs you had before working at UMOS? 19 Q.

Before I came back to UMOS in 2006 I was director of labor 03:08 20 A.

relations for the Milwaukee Public School District. Before that 21

I was a Director of Human Resources at Lewis University in the 22

state of Illinois. Before that I was coordinator for the labor 23

and employee relations for the University of Illinois at Chicago 24

at the campus and the medical center. And before that I was a 03:08 25

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Garza/Direct


labor attorney for Milwaukee Public Schools. My hair is getting 1

gray. How far back do you want me to go? 2

Outside of your significant professional experience, have 3 Q.

you done any other volunteer work in the Latino community in 4

Wisconsin? 03:09 5

In Milwaukee, when I first moved to Milwaukee in 1992 I was 6 A.

already involved with a number of different community 7

activities, whether it be voter registration, voter education. 8

I ran for office myself in 1996 for county board supervisor. I 9

was also involved in an initiative while still a law student and 03:09 10

residing in Madison for creating multilingual signage in 11

Milwaukee County social services areas with the bilingual task 12

force of Milwaukee County. I was a member of several boards, 13

community health centers and other community organizations, task 14

forces, either governmental or local task forces. Stayed pretty 03:09 15

much busy. 16

When you ran for office in 1996 did you do significant voter 17 Q.

outreach? 18

Yes. I must have done every door twice if not thrice in the 19 A.

12th district. There was about 14,000 households at the time. 03:10 20

Are there a significant number of Latino households in that 21 Q.

district? 22

65 percent of the registered voters in the 12th county board 23 A.

district were Latino voters. 24

Tell me about your past affiliation with LULAC? 03:10 25 Q.

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I joined LULAC in 2006 when Council 309 was initially 1 A.

chartered and in 2007 I continued to remain a member. I was 2

voted as its president and remained president for four 3

consecutive years. 4

In 2011 I was voted as state director of LULAC 03:10 5

Wisconsin which is an entity that includes both the elected 6

officers, like was previously testified to, as well as members 7

or presidents of each of the local councils that were comprising 8

or were in Wisconsin. 9

During what time period were you the state director? 03:11 10 Q.

I was state director from May of 2011 till the following May 11 A.

of 2012. 12

And during the years -- are you still involved with LULAC at 13 Q.

this time? 14

No. In 2012 I had to make one of those hard life decisions 03:11 15 A.

where you've got so much time and so you had to focus yourself 16

and I was in the midst of -- the beginnings of developing my 17

practice with Nonprofit Legal Services and I had to let go a lot 18

of my community activities and LULAC turned out to be one of 19

them. 03:11 20

During the years you were involved with LULAC what kinds of 21 Q.

activities did LULAC pursue? 22

We continued to do a number of community education areas. 23 A.

Our activities and initiatives in the area of education, 24

employability, civil rights and -- in those three general areas 03:12 25

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Garza/Direct


I can think of off the top of my head. We continued some and we 1

started some. 2

One of the reasons I decided to accept the nomination 3

was -- for state director was because many of my colleagues in 4

LULAC were wanting to return to the basics of what LULAC was all 03:12 5

about since its inception in 1929, and that is a civil rights 6

advocacy organization. And my background before I was employed 7

with Milwaukee Public Schools and a private attorney, part of it 8

included civil rights law. 9

How does LULAC implement its activities in Wisconsin? 03:12 10 Q.

Through volunteers. Pure volunteers. All of us spend many 11 A.

hours doing our own job making a living and spend many more 12

hours both day and night devoting our time and energy to what we 13

choose in LULAC Wisconsin to be our primary goals and 14

objectives. 03:13 15

And do the councils of LULAC Wisconsin work on issues 16 Q.

related to voting, or did they during the years you were 17

involved? 18

Yes, they did. Even while or before state director, as the 19 A.

former legal advisor for LULAC Wisconsin I would be asked many 03:13 20

questions about voter registration, about civil rights issues. 21

And every council had its own choice of what its local mission 22

was going to be. We heard a couple of examples. The council 23

that I belonged to, an issue started on immigration rights 24

advocacy and then expanded itself to other areas. 03:13 25

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When you were state director in 2011-2012 do you remember 1 Q.

the passage of Wisconsin Act 23, the voter ID law? 2

Yes, I do. 3 A.

And was that a topic that was of concern to LULAC, at that 4 Q.

time? 03:14 5

It was not only a topic, it was a topic that took a 6 A.

considerable amount of time and had significant attention drawn 7

to it because we immediately saw its impact on the Latino 8

community as far as adding to an already expressed concerns 9

about voting. We had been historically dealing with getting out 03:14 10

the vote efforts, voter registration campaigns and voter 11

education efforts, and what this Act 23 did was create a lot of 12

confusion as to who and who cannot vote and why did it all of 13

the sudden changed. 14

So what were LULAC's primary concerns with the voter ID law? 03:14 15 Q.

That people were required to provide an identification that 16 A.

previously were not required to provide it. And those who had 17

not provided the identification for the purposes of voting would 18

have difficulty in ascertaining some of the documentation 19

necessary to seek that or to secure that document. 03:15 20

Why does LULAC believe it's difficult for some people to 21 Q.

obtain that identification and documentation? 22

Well, I'll speak for the Latino community in general. We 23 A.

heard testimony about what the significant impact in the Puerto 24

Rican community for those whose previous birth certificates were 03:15 25

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Garza/Direct


invalidated and they had to revalidate that. But even in the 1

local let's say the Mexican American community, many of the 2

folks were not born in the state of Wisconsin, did not have a 3

birth certificate, because of the rule of locality. 4

I dealt with a gentleman out of Racine who was born in 03:15 5

Cotulla, Texas in 1925, they didn't have a birth certificate. 6

The best he could get was a certification of his birth which was 7

brought about by anecdotal documents such as baptismal records, 8

school records, even a couple of deeds to land that his parents 9

bought that would validate the fact that he actually existed, 03:16 10

that he actually was born, and that would not have been 11

sufficient for the purposes of the voter ID. 12

Did you help that individual to try and get the 13 Q.

documentation he needed? 14

I certainly did. It took a couple of months. There was a 03:16 15 A.

pro bono case because this was an elder gentleman who is 16

disabled, but we were able to secure everything that we had and 17

finally presented the information that said here he is, a U.S. 18

citizen, age 88, disabled, born and raised in United States. 19

Cotulla, Texas, is a town southwest of San Antonio, so it's not 03:16 20

anywhere near the border that people would suspect anything. 21

Were there any other concerns that LULAC had with 22 Q.

difficulties Latino voters in particular would face in getting 23

ID? 24

The cost of securing the IDs is another issue. It was an 03:17 25 A.

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Garza/Direct


obstruction that we as a LULAC organization found it to be 1

puzzling as to why would people have to go out and pay for 2

certain things such as the kinds of documentations necessary to 3

secure a birth certificate if they didn't have one with them 4

readily, or certifications of birth, and then to secure a voter 03:17 5

ID. It wasn't until late in the game that people were finally 6

told that, oh, these IDs were free. Nobody at LULAC knew that 7

for the longest time because it was kind of a secret. 8

What efforts did LULAC undertake to address Act 23 at the 9 Q.

time it was passed at a statewide level? 03:17 10

We shifted our focus from our regular -- we had upcoming 11 A.

elections coming up in 2012 and we wanted to do the 12

get-out-to-vote efforts again. We wanted to do voter 13

registration. We had to shift focus on educating people about 14

what the voter ID law, what Act 23 required of them and what 03:18 15

kinds of documentations were and were not acceptable for the 16

purposes of being able to vote at the polls. And that was a 17

significant shift. That's what caused us to have several 18

discussions at the board level which again, part of the board 19

was comprised of presidents of each of the local councils. We 03:18 20

did have a designation of our deputy state director who was 21

already involved in significant activities -- or significantly 22

involved in activities related to voter registration, getting 23

out the vote here in the Milwaukee area, and he took on the role 24

of coordinating things with folks in Kenosha, folks in Racine, 03:19 25

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Garza/Direct


and in the Milwaukee area. 1

Are you aware of efforts that were made by local councils 2 Q.

then to specifically respond to the voter ID law? 3

Yes. I heard testimony and I recall the actual reporting of 4 A.

those at the time, testimony from Ms. Santos Adams on the local 03:19 5

efforts of Council 325 in both Kenosha and Racine. 6

In addition to that there were other members of that 7

council who focused exclusively on the Racine area, and 8

complementing those same efforts. In Milwaukee one of our 9

council members from Council No. 326, Jaime Alvarado, he was 03:19 10

involved in the same kind of efforts that were stated earlier in 11

the Milwaukee area. 12

And from the local councils you heard at the board level, 13 Q.

the state board level, that there was concern with this law by 14

the local councils. 03:20 15

Correct. 16 A.

Were you aware of efforts made by the state at the time of 17 Q.

the passage of voter ID to publicize the information about the 18

law specifically in the Latino community? 19

No. 03:20 20 A.

Do you remember seeing anything in Spanish language media 21 Q.

discussing the law? 22

In -- I recall vaguely an article announcing the Act 23 from 23 A.

local Latino newspapers such as the Spanish Journal, 24

El Conquistador talking about what the requirements were going 03:21 25

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Garza/Direct


to be, the newness of this requirement and kind of reflecting 1

what was not required in the past. 2

Were those outreach efforts that came from the state? 3 Q.

No. 4 A.

Who did they come from? 03:21 5 Q.

The local newspapers, the two local newspapers that I'm 6 A.

aware of. 7

Do you remember seeing efforts that came from the state to 8 Q.

educate the Latino voting population about the free ID option? 9

No. 03:21 10 A.

Do you remember confusion about the free ID option? 11 Q.

The confusion stemmed from there was no utterances or no 12 A.

statements made many times at the Division of Motor Vehicles 13

that they were free if they were asked for and the only time 14

that people would know is if they knew enough to ask for a free 03:21 15

ID. 16

Was LULAC concerned that there were language barriers for 17 Q.

Latino voters in seeking ID to vote under Act 23? 18

The language barrier was always there and if anything, it 19 A.

was exacerbated by the confusion that was created by Act 23 and 03:22 20

the requirement for identification that previously was not 21

there. 22

Was Act 23 or voter ID an issue that LULAC was planning to 23 Q.

address in 2011 and '12 when you were state director? 24

Well, we had addressed it to the extent that we were doing 03:22 25 A.

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Garza/Direct


outreach and community re-education as to what Act 23 required. 1

And became involved in this particular legal action because we 2

felt strong enough and we voted at the board level to 3

participate in legal action to stop the implementation. 4

Was it an issue that LULAC was planning to spend time or 03:23 5 Q.

devote resources on before the law was passed? 6

No. 7 A.

How would you describe the overall impact of the voter ID 8 Q.

requirement on the Latino community if it were to go back into 9

effect? 03:23 10

It would create even more confusion. The two significant 11 A.

things happened: First, Act 23 was enacted. It was enacted 12

with very little publicity focused on the Latino or other 13

non-English speaking community languages -- or non-English 14

speaking communities. That created confusion. Then, when the 03:23 15

injunction was established in 2012, all of the sudden everybody 16

was saying, well, you don't have to have the ID, and now it even 17

created confusion at the polls. To do that now would exacerbate 18

the kind of confusion that's been going on. 19

Wisconsin, since I've been here in '76, has enjoyed a 03:24 20

very open electoral process, an election process, and this has 21

changed the complexion significantly. 22

In what way did it change it? 23 Q.

It changed it through now that you're being asked to not 24 A.

only be here 28 days where previously you could be here for 10 03:24 25

190

Garza/Cross


days and be a free voter. Now you have to be here 28 days. 1

Another one is now you have to show the law -- the law 2

would require that you have to show identification to prove who 3

you are when all you I have to do today and what I did before 4

the enactment of Act 23 was say this is my name, this is my 03:24 5

address, they've confirmed it and now I vote. 6

Thank you. 7 Q.

I have nothing further at this time. 8

CROSS-EXAMINATION9

BY MR. LENNINGTON: 03:25 10

Good afternoon, Mr. Garza. I'm Dan Lennington, attorney for 11 Q.

the defendants. 12

Nice to meet you. 13 A.

You said you had specialization in a certain area of 14 Q.

immigration law, but I wasn't clear on exactly what you said. 03:25 15

Yes, I do. I represent victims of crimes, sexual assault, 16 A.

domestic violence for the purposes of Violence Against Women Act 17

provisions, in immigration law as well as violent petitions for 18

U Nonimmigrant Status petitions. 19

Do you assist any clients in becoming U.S. citizens? 03:25 20 Q.

I used to. I've now refocused my attention on dealing with 21 A.

victims. 22

When someone becomes a U.S. citizen what sort of paperwork 23 Q.

do they get from the U.S. Government? 24

Well, they get a document that says "Welcome to the United 03:25 25 A.

191

Garza/Cross


States, you are now a citizen." And then it's a lot to cheer 1

about, and we've been in this building before celebrating their 2

swearing in. 3

Is that called a "certificate of naturalization"? 4 Q.

Yes, it is. 03:26 5 A.

Are you aware that individuals may show a certificate of 6 Q.

naturalization as part of their proof of identity with the 7

Department of Motor Vehicles? 8

I'm sorry. 9 A.

Did you understand that individuals when they go to the DMV 03:26 10 Q.

may use a certificate of naturalization as part of their proof 11

of identity? 12

I am now. 13 A.

Do you understand that under Act 23 the certificate of 14 Q.

naturalization is one of the alternative forms of photo 03:26 15

identification? 16

I'm aware, now. 17 A.

Okay. You submitted an affidavit or declaration in this 18 Q.

case, and one of the statements in it was that many Wisconsin 19

naturalized citizens who were born in Mexico lacked birth 03:27 20

certificates; is that correct? 21


But a Wisconsin naturalized citizen would also have a 23 Q.

certificate of naturalization; is that also correct? 24

Probably. 03:27 25 A.

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Garza/Cross


I didn't hear your answer. 1 Q.

Probably. 2 A.

In your declaration you also talked about Puerto Rican 3 Q.

individuals. I don't know if you testified to this on direct 4

examination but I just wanted to ask you: Do you know how many 03:27 5

Puerto Rican born residents are registered voters in the state 6

of Wisconsin? 7

No, I don't. 8 A.

Is it true that Spanish language ballots were made available 9 Q.

for the election that occurred in February of 2012? 03:27 10

I don't know that. I voted in Racine. 11 A.

Is it true that polling places within the city of Milwaukee 12 Q.

offered Spanish language ballots and signage in the February 13

2000 election? 14

I couldn't respond to that. I voted in Racine. I do know 03:28 15 A.

that Department of Justice required the City of Milwaukee 16

because it had reached a peak in its population, they required 17

them to provide Spanish language ballots in the city of 18

Milwaukee for the first time in history. And that was not an 19

initiative of the state, it was a federal requirement. 03:28 20

Did you personally vote in February 2012? 21 Q.

Yes, I did. 22 A.

And did you show your identification at that? 23 Q.

No. 24 A.

You did not. 03:28 25 Q.

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Garza/Cross


No. 1 A.

Where is your polling place? 2 Q.

Racine, Wisconsin. 3 A.

Were the poll workers in Racine, Wisconsin asking anyone to 4 Q.

show their identification in February 2012? 03:29 5

I don't recall because I was there like 7:05 in the morning, 6 A.

I was on my way to Milwaukee and there was like three of us in 7

the whole room. There were more poll workers than there were 8

voters at the time I voted. 9

Do you remember what was on the ballot in February of 2012 03:29 10 Q.

when you voted? 11

It was a primary, that's all I remember. 12 A.

Do you believe there was low turnout for that election? 13 Q.

I didn't follow it. I can't really respond. 14 A.

You testified that you assisted people in registering to 03:29 15 Q.

vote; is that correct? 16

I did in the past, yes. 17 A.

And what's required to register to vote in the state of 18 Q.

Wisconsin? 19

At the time, this was back in 1996, you had to be a resident 03:29 20 A.

of the city for a certain amount of time. You have to have a 21

valid address that you can attest to. And you filled out a 22

voter registration card and you signed it attesting to the 23

accuracy and truthfulness of everything and myself as a 24

registrar would have to witness it. 03:30 25

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Garza/Cross


Do any LULAC members have difficulty in registering to vote? 1 Q.

Not that I know of. 2 A.

Do you understand that the voter ID law Act 23 does not 3 Q.

apply to LULAC as an organization? 4

I don't think it applies to any organization. It applies to 03:30 5 A.

the citizenry of Wisconsin of which we are part of that, as well 6

as we advocate. 7

So you understand that it doesn't require that LULAC board 8 Q.

of directors to take any action. 9

The law doesn't require -- it doesn't require any 03:31 10 A.

organization to take any action that I know of. 11

What is the organizational mission of LULAC? 12 Q.

It is to advance the educational, social, political benefits 13 A.

for Hispanics throughout the nation and particularly Wisconsin. 14

Do you know of any specific members of LULAC who lack a 03:31 15 Q.

qualifying ID to vote in Wisconsin under Act 23? 16

I'm not aware of one. 17 A.

So you can't name a single person who is a member of LULAC 18 Q.

who lacks a photo ID that would qualify them to vote under 19

Act 23. 03:31 20

I answered that but, no. 21 A.

What does it take to become a LULAC member? 22 Q.

You are a resident, but we'll talk about Wisconsin, okay? 23 A.

You are a resident of the State of Wisconsin. You apply to 24

either a local council or you and nine other people come 03:32 25

195

Garza/Cross


together and apply for charter status with the National LULAC 1

Conference. You submit all the required documentation and 2

annual dues. The national office has a minimum annual dues. If 3

your local council decides to have dues, you file that in, and 4

then you receive a response to your application. You make an 03:32 5

attestation that you are members of the community in good 6

standing, good moral character, that you support the 7

Constitution of the United States, and then that entire packet 8

is submitted to the national office for review, consideration, 9

and either acceptance or denial. 03:33 10

Has LULAC as an organization lost money because of Act 23? 11 Q.

Are you speaking of LULAC Wisconsin? 12 A.

LULAC Wisconsin, yes. 13 Q.

I'm not sure what you mean by lost money. We didn't put any 14 A.

bets out there that it was going to not vote. But we expended 03:33 15

our time in my role as state director at that point in time, we 16

expended our time and energy focusing on the impact and how our 17

local councils, because they are the say energizer bunnies of 18

the organization, are going to act at the local level. And 19

every council has its own focus on what it intends to do to help 03:33 20

the Latino community — Council 326, for example -- or 325. 21

Are members of LULAC more likely than other Wisconsin 22 Q.

residents to be burdened by Act 23? 23

I couldn't tell you. We never asked that question of our 24 A.

council members. In fact, the entity that I work with were all 03:34 25

196

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Garza/Redirect


council presidents and elected officers. 1

Thank you. 2 Q.

You're welcome. 3 A.

MR. FOSTER: Few questions on redirect. 4

REDIRECT EXAMINATION03:34 5

BY MR. FOSTER: 6

Good afternoon, Mr. Garza. I'd like to ask you to review a 7 Q.

document and its copy of what's been marked as Exhibit 9 in the 8

Frank case. 9

MR. LENNINGTON: Objection. Outside the scope of the 03:35 10

cross. 11

MR. FOSTER: Your Honor, this is a document that 12

summarizes the requirements for the documents that they used to 13

obtain a free ID published by the GAB. 14

THE COURT: I'll allow it. 03:35 15

BY MR. FOSTER:16

Mr. Garza, if you could take a minute to review that. 17 Q.

(Witness peruses document.) 18

Okay. 19 A.

THE COURT: Go ahead. Questions? 03:36 20

BY MR. FOSTER:21

Mr. Garza, if you've had a moment, I'll direct your 22 Q.

attention to section number 1 to the front side of the document. 23

And that asks: Do you have one of these documents? Do you see 24

that section? 03:36 25

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Garza/Redirect


Correct. 1 A.

Do you see that there's, below that, a box with nine 2 Q.

different documents and one of them is a certificate of 3

naturalization? 4

Correct. 03:36 5 A.

Below that do you see the double asterisk where it indicates 6 Q.

"accepted documents should be unexpired or if expired have 7

expired after the date of the most recent general election"? 8

Correct. I see it. 9 A.

If you could turn to the back page of the document for a 03:37 10 Q.

moment. You see a section that's marked number 3. 11

Yes, I do. 12 A.

Do you see that a certificate of naturalization is listed in 13 Q.

the second column? 14

Yes. 03:37 15 A.

Do you read that to mean that a certificate of 16 Q.

naturalization may show legal presence for purposes of obtaining 17

the state free ID card provided by Act 23? 18

That's what it appears to be. 19 A.

If you look at the first column indicating documents which 03:37 20 Q.

would demonstrate name and date of birth, do you see a 21

certificate of naturalization in that column? 22

No, I don't. 23 A.

At the top of Section 3 do you see the indication you must 24 Q.

have one document from each column to obtain a free state ID for 03:37 25

198

Garza/Redirect


voting purposes? 1

I see that. Yes, I do. 2 A.

Thank you. I'd like to find one more exhibit, please. 3 Q.

(Brief pause.) 4

BY MR. FOSTER:03:39 5

Thank you for your patience, Mr. Garza. One last question 6 Q.

on the exhibit you were previously looking at which is marked as 7

Number 9 in the Frank case. Based on your review of Section 3 8

is it your belief that you could obtain a free ID card using 9

only a certificate of naturalization without one of the 03:39 10

documents listed in the first column on that chart? 11

No. I don't believe you could. 12 A.

I'd like to ask you to look now at what is marked as 13 Q.

Exhibit 227 in the Jones case. If you take a minute to review 14

that. And tell the Court what it is, please. 03:40 15

MR. KAWSKI: And, Your Honor, if we may have a moment 16

to find that exhibit in our binder also. 17

THE COURT: Okay. 18

(Brief pause.) 19


Mr. Garza, have you had a moment to review that first page 21 Q.

or two of that document? 22

First page or two is about as far as I got. 23 A.

I'm only going to direct you to information on pages 1 and 24 Q.

2. Can you tell the Court what that document is titled? 03:41 25

199

Garza/Redirect


It's the Wisconsin Legislative Council Act Memo with regard 1 A.

to the 2011 Wisconsin Act 23, Changes to Election Law. 2

Is it your understanding that document would summarize the 3 Q.

changes to law made by Wisconsin Act 23? 4

I believe so. 03:41 5 A.

MR. LENNINGTON: Objection. Foundation. 6

THE COURT: Have you guys found your copy? 7

MR. LENNINGTON: Yes, we have. 8

THE COURT: Overruled. Go ahead. 9


Is it your understanding that that document would summarize 11 Q.

the changes of law enacted by Act 23? 12

I believe so. 13 A.

If you see on the bottom of page 1 and going over to page 2 14 Q.

there's a list of the documents that allow you to vote under -- 03:42 15

as photo identification under Act 23? 16

Correct. 17 A.

Do you see a certificate of naturalization in that list? 18 Q.

Correct. 19 A.

Can you read the description of what sort of certificate of 03:42 20 Q.

naturalization would allow you to vote as voter ID? 21

"A certificate that is no older than two years before the 22 A.

date of an election which is presented." 23

Is it your understanding that there are Wisconsin Latino 24 Q.

citizens who are eligible voters who have been naturalized for 03:42 25

200

November4,2013


Garza/Redirect


more than two years? 1

Several. 2 A.

Could you give a more general description of how many? 3 Q.

I haven't counted them lately. 4 A.

I'll withdraw the question. Is it your understanding there 03:42 5 Q.

are a substantial number of eligible Wisconsin voters who are 6

naturalized citizens naturalized more than two years ago? 7

Yes, it is my belief. 8 A.

Do you think there are more such citizens naturalized more 9 Q.

than two years ago than there are such citizens who are 03:42 10

naturalized in the last two years? 11

I'll speak experientially about the naturalization process. 12 A.

In the last two or three years that I worked in that area has 13

become a longer process because of the volume. So my 14

speculation is that there are now more naturalized citizens in 03:43 15

Wisconsin who have been that way for over two years than there 16

are who have been presently. 17

It's fair to say there are more naturalized citizens in 18 Q.

Wisconsin who were naturalized from all the years prior to 2011 19

than in the two years since 2011? 03:43 20

Very safe statement to make. 21 A.

You were asked whether Act 23 compelled -- required LULAC to 22 Q.

take any action. Did LULAC choose to respond to Act 23? 23

We chose as a long-standing advocacy organization to act on 24 A.

behalf of our constituent community, and that's the Latino 03:43 25

201

Garza/Redirect


community in Wisconsin. 1

Do you feel that that action was in keeping with LULAC's 2 Q.

mission? 3

Most definitely. 4 A.

Do you think it would have been -- what do you think would 03:44 5 Q.

have happened if LULAC had not taken that action? 6

We would have had more individuals confused as to what was 7 A.

required under Act 23, more individuals who did not have the 8

wherewithal to secure the documents required for voter 9

identification than we did before. We believe that our 03:44 10

educational efforts and our outreach efforts both in the Kenosha 11

area and the Racine and Milwaukee areas assisted people in 12

becoming aware of what was required under Act 23 and what they 13

needed to do in order to be eligible to vote. 14

You were asked about your personal experience voting in 03:44 15 Q.

February 2012. You voted in Racine at that time? 16

Yes. 17 A.

Previously you voted in Milwaukee? 18 Q.

I lived in Racine since 2010 so I would have voted in Racine 19 A.

since then I think. 03:45 20

And I'm asking prior to 2010 were you a voter in Milwaukee? 21 Q.

Yes, I did. 22 A.

And have you noted in Madison in the past? 23 Q.

Yes, I did. 24 A.

You described experiences campaigning for public office 03:45 25 Q.

202

Garza/Recross


yourself in 1996, did you have occasion at that time to pay 1

attention to elections administration? 2

Yes, I did. 3 A.

Is it your experience that voting implementation might be 4 Q.

inconsistent between Milwaukee and Racine, between Madison and 03:45 5

Milwaukee, or -- you get my idea. I'll withdraw and rephrase 6

the question. 7

Has it been your experience given what we've discussed 8

that different polling places may implement election law in 9

different ways? 03:45 10

I believe there's a distinct possibility. 11 A.

If you can answer. 12 Q.

That's all I can say. 13 A.

I have nothing further. 14 Q.

MR. LENNINGTON: Recross. 03:46 15

RECROSS-EXAMINATION16


Just real briefly. Before today had you ever seen LULAC 18 Q.

Exhibit 227 that was shown to you? 19

This exhibit? 03:46 20 A.

Yes. 21 Q.

I can't recall to tell you the truth. 22 A.

And then on the second page where you were directed to look 23 Q.

at it and it says, "A certificate of U.S. naturalization that 24

was issued not earlier than two years before the date of the 03:46 25

203

Garza/Recross


election." 1

I see that. 2 A.

Do you know what that means, not earlier? 3 Q.

That means there's a two-year period. 4 A.

Is it your understanding that that means that the 03:46 5 Q.

certificate of naturalization has to be issued within two years 6

of the election or not earlier than two years? 7

I'm sorry, I don't understand your question. 8 A.

Okay. I have another question for you. The Frank Exhibit 9 Q.

Number 9, the other document you were shown? Before today have 03:47 10

you ever seen a copy of that flowchart? 11

No. 12 A.

On the back side it talks about a certificate of 13 Q.

naturalization that you were directed to and right next to that 14

there is a category that says "certificate of citizenship." Do 03:47 15

you understand or know what a certificate of citizenship is? 16

I don't understand the distinction between that. 17 A.

Do you know if U.S. naturalized citizens can obtain a 18 Q.

certificate of citizenship? 19

No. 03:47 20 A.

That's all I have. Thank you. 21 Q.

THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. You're excused. 22



SHIRLEY BROWN, PLAINTIFF WITNESS, DULY SWORN 03:48 25

204

November4,2013


Brown/Direct


THE COURT: Have a seat. State your name for the 1

record. Spell your name. And talk real close to that 2

microphone. You can pull that mic down close to you and get 3

close to it. And ma'am, would you repeat your name, too? 4

MS. PRINC: Yes. My name is Diane Princ, I'm one of 03:48 5

the attorneys for the Frank Plaintiffs. 6

DIRECT EXAMINATION7

BY MS. PRINC: 8

Ms. Brown, would you state your name for the record? 9 Q.

Shirley Brown. 03:48 10 A.

How do you spell Shirley? 11 Q.

S-H-I-R-L-E-Y, B-R-O-W-N. Brown. 12 A.

How old are you, Ms. Brown? 13 Q.

75. 14 A.


July 9, 1938. 16 A.

Was that 1938? 17 Q.

Yes. 18 A.


In Lake Providence, Louisiana. 03:49 20 A.

For the record what race are you? 21 Q.

I'm black. 22 A.

Were you born in a hospital? 23 Q.

No. 24 A.


205

Brown/Direct


At home. 1 A.

Who delivered you? 2 Q.

Midwife. I don't know her name. 3 A.


Yes. 03:49 5 A.

When? 6 Q.

May of 1957. 7 A.

Where was that? 8 Q.

In Lake Providence, Louisiana. 9 A.

When did you move to Wisconsin? 03:50 10 Q.

June of 1961. 11 A.

Have you lived in Milwaukee since then? 12 Q.

Yes. 13 A.

Are you currently retired? 14 Q.

Yes. 03:50 15 A.

When did you retire? 16 Q.

During the '80s, I think. 17 A.

During the 1980s? 18 Q.

Yes. 19 A.

What did you do before you retired? 03:50 20 Q.

I worked in restaurants and then I went to Milwaukee Area 21 A.

Technical College. 22

What did you study at Milwaukee Area Technical College? 23 Q.

Social service. 24 A.

When did you study? 03:50 25 Q.

206

Brown/Direct


That was during 1976 to 1980. 1 A.

What do you do to support yourself now? 2 Q.

I'm on disability. 3 A.

Is that Social Security disability? 4 Q.

Yes. 03:50 5 A.

How much do you receive per month? 6 Q.

793. 7 A.

Do you receive any other benefits? 8 Q.

No, I don't. 9 A.

Do you receive Medicare? 03:51 10 Q.

Yes. 11 A.

Do you have a card for that? 12 Q.

Yes, I do. 13 A.

What's it called? 14 Q.

Medicare and I have a Title 19 card. 03:51 15 A.

Is it the red, white and blue card? 16 Q.

Yes, the red, white and blue card and the white card. 17 A.

I'm going to ask you some questions about your forms of 18 Q.

identification. 19

Okay. 03:51 20 A.

Do you have a driver's license? 21 Q.

No, I don't. 22 A.

Do you drive? 23 Q.

No. 24 A.

Have you ever had a driver's license? 03:51 25 Q.

207

Brown/Direct


No. Never had one. 1 A.

I'm sorry, what was that? 2 Q.

I never had one before. 3 A.

Okay. Do you have the free Wisconsin photo ID card? 4 Q.

No. 03:51 5 A.


No, I don't. 7 A.

Have you ever had one? 8 Q.

No. 9 A.

Had you ever left the country? 03:51 10 Q.

No. 11 A.

Had you ever flown in a plane? 12 Q.

No. 13 A.

Do you have any military ID card? 14 Q.

No, I don't. 03:52 15 A.

THE COURT: Little louder, Ms. Brown, if you could. 16

THE WITNESS: Okay. 17

BY MS. PRINC:18

Do you have a military ID card? 19 Q.

No. 03:52 20 A.


Milwaukee Area Technical College. 22 A.

You have the MATC card? 23 Q.

Yes. 24 A.

How old is that card? 03:52 25 Q.

208

November4,2013


Brown/Direct


It was made in '76, I think. 1 A.

I'm going to ask you some questions about your birth 2 Q.

certificate. You said you were born in Louisiana. Do you have 3

a birth certificate? 4

No. 03:52 5 A.

When did you first realize that you don't have a birth 6 Q.

certificate? 7

In 12. Last year. 2012. 8 A.

Did you find out when you were a student at MATC? 9 Q.

Yes, when I first went there I tried to get a state ID and I 03:53 10 A.

couldn't get it because I didn't have the birth certificate. 11

Who did you find that out from? 12 Q.

From whoever it was when I was going to have the ID picture 13 A.

made. 14

You said earlier that you have a red, white and blue card 03:53 15 Q.

from Medicare? 16

Yes. 17 A.

How did you get that without a birth certificate? 18 Q.

Through the Social Security. 19 A.

What did Social Security do to help you? 03:53 20 Q.

They sent to the school that I went to, elementary school. 21 A.

I've handed you what's been marked as Frank Plaintiffs' 22 Q.

Exhibit 108. Do you recognize that document? 23

Yes. 24 A.

What is that document? 03:54 25 Q.

209

Brown/Direct


It's supposed to be a birth certificate. I took it to the 1 A.

motor vehicle and they said it wasn't. 2

What's the title of the document? 3 Q.

It had "birth certificate" written on it but she didn't 4 A.

accept it. 03:54 5

Is it a letter from East Carroll Parish School Board? 6 Q.

Yes. 7 A.

What is the date of the document? 8 Q.

May 11, 2006. 9 A.

Does it list your name? 03:54 10 Q.

Yes. 11 A.

What does it list under your name? 12 Q.

Birthday July 9, 1938. 13 A.

What does it list under that? 14 Q.

Birth place, Lake Providence, Louisiana. East Carroll 03:55 15 A.

Parish. 16

And does it list your parents' names? 17 Q.

My mother's name and my father's name. Leonma Brown and 18 A.

Lumpree Brown. 19

I believe you testified you took that letter to motor 03:55 20 Q.

vehicles, why did you go to motor vehicles? 21

I was going to try to get my state ID. 22 A.

Why were you trying to get an ID? 23 Q.

Because of the voting. 24 A.

What did they do with that letter? 03:56 25 Q.

210

Brown/Direct


At the motor vehicle? 1 A.

Yes. 2 Q.

She looked at it but she said it wasn't a birth certificate 3 A.

so she couldn't use it. 4

Did they tell you anything that you could do to get an ID 03:56 5 Q.

without a birth certificate? 6

No. 7 A.

Did they tell you who you should contact to try to get a 8 Q.

birth certificate? 9

No. 03:56 10 A.

Do you remember about when this was? 11 Q.

It was 2012. March, I think. 12 A.

March of 2012? 13 Q.

Yes. 14 A.

Do you remember how you got to the DMV? 03:56 15 Q.

A driver from Medicare takes people, senior citizens to 16 A.

where they want to go. 17

Did it cost money? 18 Q.

I think you pay $3 going and $3 coming back. 19 A.

Did you ever go to motor vehicles before that? 03:57 20 Q.

Yes, I think I went during May of 11. 21 A.

Were you able to get ID then? 22 Q.

No. 23 A.

Did you take that letter with you? 24 Q.

Yes. 03:57 25 A.

211

Brown/Direct


Have you tried again to get an ID? 1 Q.

No, I didn't try anymore. 2 A.

Miss Brown, do you usually vote? 3 Q.

Yes. 4 A.

How long have you been a voter? 03:57 5 Q.

Since 1976. 6 A.

Since 1976? 7 Q.

Uh-huh. Yes. 8 A.

Do you vote in the presidential elections? 9 Q.

Yes. 03:58 10 A.

Do you vote in the state and county elections? 11 Q.

Yes. 12 A.

Why do you vote? 13 Q.

I just decided to vote. 14 A.

Thank you. No further questions. 03:58 15 Q.

MR. KAWSKI: No questions, Your Honor. 16

THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. You're excused. 17


MS. ROTKER: Your Honor, may we take a break? 19

Ms. Brown's son is also a witness. He's supposed to be coming 03:58 20

from work and we're trying to ascertain -- 21

THE COURT: Okay. Five-minute break. Don't go too 22

far. 23


THE COURT: Ms. Rotker, are you ready? 04:03 25

212

November4,2013


K. Brown/Direct


MS. ROTKER: We are. It was perfect timing. We 1

appreciate it. 2

KENNETH BROWN, PLAINTIFF WITNESS, DULY SWORN 3

THE COURT: Have a seat. State your name and spell 4

your name and speak right into that mic. 04:03 5

THE WITNESS: First name is Kenneth, K-E-N-N-E-T-H, 6

last name is Brown, B-R-O-W-N. 7

DIRECT EXAMINATION8

BY MS. PRINC: 9

Good afternoon, Mr. Brown. My name is Diane Princ, I'm one 04:03 10 Q.

of the attorneys for the Frank Plaintiffs. 11


And who is your mother? 13 Q.

Shirley Brown. 14 A.


May 15, 1967. 16 A.


Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 18 A.

For the record what is your race? 19 Q.

African-American. 04:04 20 A.

Have you always lived in Milwaukee? 21 Q.

Yes. 22 A.


Yes. 24 A.

Which high school did you graduate from? 04:04 25 Q.

213

K. Brown/Direct


Harold Vincent. 1 A.

What do you do for a living? 2 Q.

City of Milwaukee Department of Public Works as an inventory 3 A.

assistant 2. 4

Who is the main person who helps to take care of your 04:04 5 Q.

mother? 6

I do. 7 A.

After the Wisconsin photo ID came out -- photo ID law came 8 Q.

out, what did you do to help your mother vote? 9

Well, we made an attempt to go to the motor vehicle 04:04 10 A.

department but without a birth certificate she wasn't able to 11

get an ID. 12

What did you do to try to get a birth certificate for her? 13 Q.

We sent one off to the State of Louisiana. 14 A.

I'm going to hand you what's been marked as Frank 04:04 15 Q.

Plaintiffs' Exhibit 591. Do you recognize this document? 16

Yes. 17 A.

What is this document? 18 Q.

That's a document for request of a birth certificate for my 19 A.

mother. 04:05 20

In which state? 21 Q.

Louisiana. 22 A.

Did you fill that out? 23 Q.

Yes. 24 A.

Why did you fill it out? 04:05 25 Q.

214

K. Brown/Direct


Because they needed someone next of kin to fill it out and 1 A.

pay for it and mail it off for her. 2

Why couldn't your mother? 3 Q.

I believe they need someone to be a witness. 4 A.

Did you have to submit your photo ID as part of that 04:05 5 Q.

application? 6

Yes, I did. 7 A.

Does your mother have photo ID? 8 Q.

I don't believe so. 9 A.

Did it cost money to send this form to Louisiana? 04:05 10 Q.

Yes, it did. 11 A.

How much? 12 Q.

$15. 13 A.

What did you receive from Louisiana in response? 14 Q.

I received a birth certificate but it was for my Auntie June 04:06 15 A.

Rose Brown. 16

I'm going to handled up what's been marked as Frank 17 Q.

plaintiff Exhibit 592. Do you recognize this document? 18

Yes, I do. 19 A.

What is this document? 04:06 20 Q.

It's a document from the State of Louisiana, Department of 21 A.

Health and Hospitals. 22

Is this what you received in response? 23 Q.

(No response.)24 A.

It's double sided if you want to take a look at the other 04:06 25 Q.

215

K. Brown/Cross


pages. 1

(Witness peruses document.) 2

Yes. This is correct. 3 A.

And whose birth certificate is that? 4 Q.

That's my Auntie's, June. 04:07 5 A.

When was June born? 6 Q.

I believe it says 1942. 7 A.

And your mother was born when? 8 Q.

1938. 9 A.

Did you ever receive any other paperwork from Louisiana? 04:07 10 Q.

No, I didn't. 11 A.

Did you receive your mother's birth certificate? 12 Q.

No, we did not. 13 A.

MS. PRINC: No further questions. Thank you. 14


BY MR. KAWSKI: 16

Good afternoon, Mr. Brown. 17 Q.

Hi. 18 A.

My name is Clay Kawski and I represent the defendants in 19 Q.

this case. I just have a couple questions for you about the 04:07 20

Exhibit 592 that you got back from the State of Louisiana. 21

Uh-huh. 22 A.

When you received that did you make any effort to follow up 23 Q.

with Louisiana? 24

I believe I might have tried to call them, but it's been 04:08 25 A.

216

November4,2013


K. Brown/Cross


awhile. I don't know if I was able to get through to them. 1

Did it seem strange to you that they sent you the wrong 2 Q.

birth certificate? I mean, it appeared that you filled out the 3

paperwork correctly. 4

Yes, it did. 04:08 5 A.

But you didn't follow up with them or ask why they sent you 6 Q.

the wrong one? 7

Like I said, I believe that I did, I tried to contact where 8 A.

I had sent it to but I wasn't able to get through to anybody. 9

MR. KAWSKI: No further questions. 04:08 10

THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Brown. I believe you're 11

excused. 12


MS. ROTKER: Your Honor, I think I've been designated 14

to lay out what the situation is right now. 04:08 15

THE COURT: Yeah. 16

MS. ROTKER: If I might. So, you were right and we 17

have sped through people. We have a couple -- the Frank 18

Plaintiffs have and are prepared to introduce video depositions 19

of two witnesses who as I understand it the state is stipulating 04:09 20

are unavailable. For right now we're talking about Ruthelle 21

Frank who lives up near Wausau and has a heart condition right 22

now and was deposed by video, and Nancy Lee Wilde who is 23

deceased. We were going to significant to the Court that we set 24

up to play them now which we are prepared to do. I will 04:09 25

217

K. Brown/Cross


represent to the Court that we did not have time to edit them 1

down from length. They're each probably about an hour, but we 2

are prepared to play those for the Court, and they also come 3

with some exhibits that we would like to introduce and attach to 4

them. 04:09 5

THE COURT: That's fine with me. 6

MR. KAWSKI: Your Honor, I'll say a few things in our 7

response. We represented in our response to the motion in 8

limine that these witnesses are unavailable. We don't really 9

see a reason to play these videos live in court. We feel that 04:10 10

the Court could view them in chambers. If you so desire. 11

They're very long. We've watched them in the trial in voter ID 12

last year. We also have a witness here that the plaintiffs 13

would like to call on Thursday, Kevin Kennedy. I haven't talked 14

to him about it but he's sitting here in the back, and if they'd 04:10 15

like to call him now they could and it might be a better use of 16

time. So if Mr. Kennedy is comfortable with it you could call 17

him to testify now, but we don't see a reason to play two hours 18

of video right now. We feel it may put all of us to sleep at 19

this point in the day. 04:10 20

MR. ULIN: With due respect to Mr. Cost's offer and 21

Mr. Kennedy, we had no notice that he was present and available 22

for examination. And in candor, Your Honor, we do intend to 23

call him but we're not prepared to call him this afternoon. 24

THE COURT: About these videos, though, were you 04:11 25

218

K. Brown/Cross


planning to put them in at all or was this sort of filler? 1

MS. ROTKER: No -- 2

THE COURT: I mean, is there a need to put them in? 3

MS. ROTKER: Yes. I mean, it's video depositions. So 4

it's in lieu of live testimony by two witnesses who are 04:11 5

unavailable. 6

THE COURT: So you were planning on putting them in 7

some other time though? 8

MS. ROTKER: With all candor we figured that there 9

would probably come a point where we might -- all the witness 04:11 10

organization might not come together and then we would use the 11

videos at that point. But we knew that we were -- and, in fact, 12

that was why we made the motion prior to trial, we knew that we 13

were planning to put them in, we were not sure exactly which day 14

we were going to do it. 04:11 15

THE COURT: Okay. So you want to play these whole 16

things even though some of it you -- some of it you would edit 17

out normally or what? 18

MS. ROTKER: We made designations, they didn't make 19

cross-designations so it ends up being -- 04:12 20

THE COURT: Okay. I'm not going to have them -- if 21

they're not ready to call a witness I'm not going to say -- so 22

why don't you just go with your depositions and everybody will 23

fall asleep or whatever. 24

(General laughter.) 04:12 25

219

K. Brown/Cross


MS. ROTKER: And we promise that we will not -- 1

THE COURT: You see, this is a problem, you 2

understand? You gotta keep -- I knew this was going to be a 3

problem because it always is unfailingly. So try not to let it 4

happen again. 04:12 5

MS. ROTKER: It will not happen again, Your Honor. 6

THE COURT: Okay. 7

MS. ROTKER: And we apologize and I apologize for 8

that. 9


MR. KAWSKI: Your Honor, I have a question, could we 11

ask, are the plaintiffs planning on putting on any other 12

witnesses or testimony on after these videos? 13

THE COURT: Why, do you want to leave? 14

MR. KAWSKI: I'm not kidding. We were going to ask -- 04:12 15

we could be working on other things. We've seen the videos. 16

THE COURT: Yeah. I assume they're not because these 17

videos, it's going to be after 6:00 when they're done. I assume 18

that's the end of it, right? 19

MS. ROTKER: That's correct, Your Honor. We are not 04:13 20

putting anyone else on today. We have a full day tomorrow. 21

THE COURT: Okay. Well, you don't care if defendants 22

are excused, do you? 23

MS. ROTKER: The only issue, Your Honor, is did we 24

need to resolve certain issues -- evidentiary issues today 04:13 25

220

November4,2013


K. Brown/Cross


before the defendants leave? We have marked a slew of exhibits 1

today. I think there was some conversation early this morning 2

that there was going to be some objections to some of those 3

exhibits and we want to make sure that that is resolved. I 4

mean, if the defendants want to leave we'll be happy to resolve 04:13 5

it in their absence but -- 6

MR. KAWSKI: We would prefer to address the objections 7

to those exhibits before the videos so we're still awake. 8

THE COURT: Okay. What are the objections to the 9

exhibits? 393, 394, 395, are those the ones that were objected 04:14 10

to? 11

MR. KAWSKI: That's correct, Your Honor. And I'm 12

going to grab the binder right now so I can take a look at 13

those. And I will address the objections. We're talking about 14

the LULAC case 393, 394 and 395. 04:14 15

THE COURT: Okay. 16

MR. KAWSKI: Just so we're clear, has there been a 17

motion in the LULAC case to admit these? I'm not sure. 18

MR. CURTIS: Your Honor, I believe I moved during 19

the -- 04:14 20

THE COURT: All right. There's been a motion. So go 21

ahead. 22

MR. KAWSKI: We would first object to 393 as hearsay 23

to which there's no exception. And there are multiple parts of 24

393 that are hearsay. This is a multipage exhibit. It's 04:15 25

221

K. Brown/Cross


labeled or Bates stamped pages 1 through 48. We've heard 1

testimony -- and, Your Honor, should I wait for you to get it in 2

front of you? 3

THE COURT: Go ahead. Do you have another copy? I 4

mean, I guess we've just got these boxes out here which we 04:15 5

haven't gone through completely. 6

MR. KAWSKI: Your Honor, I don't have another copy. 7

THE COURT: Just go ahead. 8

MR. CURTIS: Your Honor, I can give a copy to the 9

Court. 04:15 10


MR. KAWSKI: Your Honor, according to our notes the 12

witness only talked about five pages of this exhibit. So that 13

alone would show that it's not been authenticated, in any event, 14

besides those five pages. They're moving to admit the entire 04:16 15

exhibit which is 393 and it consists of 48 pages. 16

First of all, the witness only talked about pages 11, 17

21, 31, 44, and 46, provided no foundation for any of the other 18

pages, and to which we're objecting as hearsay. 19

THE COURT: What specific things don't you want? I 04:16 20

mean, I guess my first question is, you know, this is a court 21

trial and, you know, you certainly have a right to object to all 22

this, but I guess I'm not sure what you really object to or I 23

mean does it matter? I mean, what are you trying to keep out 24

specifically? I mean, there's all these different pages. I 04:17 25

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mean, to do a real analysis I suppose I'd have to look at every 1

single item, no? 2

MR. KAWSKI: I think you would. 3

THE COURT: So -- 4

MR. KAWSKI: So we're objecting that they're hearsay 04:17 5

for which there's no exception. 6

THE COURT: Okay. Which items? 7

MR. KAWSKI: Well, starting with the first page, page 8

1 of 48. This is a birth certificate for Bettye S. Jones. 9

Excuse me, not a birth certificate, it's a document from the 04:17 10

office of vital records from the Tennessee Department of Health, 11

Nashville, Tennessee, March 29th, 1993. No witness has laid any 12

foundation for this document. And it appears to be just a 13

one-page document. It is hearsay, it's an out-of-court 14

statement offered for the truth of the matter. 04:18 15

THE COURT: Mr. Curtis, let me ask you this, you put 16

the witness on and I assume you -- she testified as to the 17

things that you thought were important. Does this matter? 18

MR. CURTIS: It does, Your Honor. And let me just 19

respond to a few things that have been said. 04:18 20

First of all, I believe the witness did testify that 21

she had put all of these documents together. This was the -- 22

and this is a chronological set of her correspondence to and 23

from government offices in Tennessee, Ohio and Wisconsin. We 24

marked this as one exhibit and put it on precisely because this 04:18 25

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is a bench trial, we were trying to streamline things, rather 1

than going through page by page, you know, and with the usual 2

authentication. I believe the witness did indicate that she 3

looked at this, she confirmed that these were her records that 4

she had kept of her correspondence, the witness was also 04:19 5

available for cross and so I'm a bit surprised at that if he had 6

concerns about a particular document here or there didn't take 7

advantage of cross. 8

Now, as far as the hearsay, Mr. Kawski mentioned the 9

very first page, page 1, I believe 803(9) addresses that, public 04:19 10

records of vital statistics, a record of a birth, death or 11

marriage if reported to a public office in accordance with a 12

legal duty. This is a public office, a record pertaining to 13

Ms. Jones' birth certificate. I'm happy to go through page by 14

page by page if Mr. Kawski -- 04:19 15

THE COURT: Is most of this really to show basically 16

my understanding was that she put all this together and you 17

offered it primarily not exclusively perhaps for the purpose of 18

showing what she had to go through in order to try to get her 19

mother in compliance. It's not really, you're not even offering 04:20 20

it because it's truthful, you're just offering it essentially 21

because as an indication that this is all the effort she had to 22

put in. 23

MR. CURTIS: That's exactly right, Your Honor. 24

THE COURT: So Mr. Kawski, this isn't offered for the 04:20 25

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truth of anything if it. It's just offered to show what 1

Ms. Crawford had to go through. So for that purpose it's not 2

hearsay. 3

MR. KAWSKI: Your Honor, we'll gladly take that 4

concession. 04:20 5

THE COURT: Fine. Then it's admitted for that 6

purpose. And the other things, can they fall in the same 7

category? 8

MR. KAWSKI: Are we talking about Exhibit 394? 9

THE COURT: Yeah, I guess the other ones that you 04:20 10

objected to of hers. 11

MR. KAWSKI: Yeah. So 394 I guess we haven't even 12

seen it yet. So it appears that our notes tell us it's a 13

delayed birth certificate from the State of Tennessee. Our 14

binder does not include a copy of it. Again, same objection. 04:21 15

It's hearsay. 16

THE COURT: We don't have a copy either. We have -- 17

we don't have a copy of 394. We have the statement about it's 18

illegal to make a birth certificate copy or something. 19

MR. CURTIS: Hang on just a second, Your Honor. 04:21 20

Your Honor, we're trying to put our hands on the 21

original certified copy. The same issue arises with respect to 22

Exhibit 396. That is the State of Wisconsin delayed -- I'm 23

sorry. 24

THE COURT: You're not offering any of these for the 04:21 25

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truth of the matter. 1

MR. CURTIS: No. 2

THE COURT: Mr. Because, they're all admitted not for 3

the truth of the matter stated. 4

MR. KAWSKI: Your Honor I guess it's different though 04:22 5

with respect to Exhibit 395. That's a declaration of Betty 6

Jones. I would assert that that is hearsay offered for the 7

truth of the matters asserted in that declaration and we object 8

to it. 9

MR. CURTIS: Your Honor, as you heard, Ms. Jones 04:22 10

passed away a year ago. The appropriate rule is therefore Rule 11

804 because she is unavailable. Exhibit 395 is full of 12

statements of personal or family history. And I would just note 13

that the rule, again 804(b)(4), talks specifically about 14

statements about the declarant's own birth, ancestry, marriage, 04:22 15

or similar facts of personal or family history. 16

This would seem to fall within that, Your Honor. 17

MR. KAWSKI: And, Your Honor, my response is that some 18

of that is correct but the entire declaration does not come in 19

because there are other portions that do not fall under 04:23 20

804(b) -- 21

THE COURT: I'll admit all of the material that comes 22

under 804(b)(4). All that's admitted and I'll exclude the other 23

part. 24

MR. KAWSKI: And Your Honor for the record could we 04:23 25

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get an indication as to which parts are excluded and which parts 1

are admitted? 2

MR. CURTIS: Your Honor, I could save you some time if 3

I could also just point out under 807 the residual hearsay rule. 4

I would note that this was a declaration submitted by Ms. Jones 04:23 5

in April of 2012. Ms. Jones was available from April of 2012 6

through August for the state to depose her as to any of this and 7

the state chose not to take advantage of that opportunity. 8

THE COURT: I'll stick to my ruling. As to which is 9

which, Mr. Kawski, all of that material that falls in that 04:24 10

exception which is anything about her personal or family history 11

is admitted. That's not very complicated to figure out which 12

that is. And the rest of it I'll sustain your objection. 13


THE COURT: Okay. What's next? 04:24 15

MR. CURTIS: Your Honor, we did locate the originals 16

of the -- these are Exhibit 396, the Wisconsin certificate of 17

vital record. 18

THE COURT: I think all of those we agreed to admit 19

under the same status as 393, no, Mr. Kawski? 04:24 20

MR. KAWSKI: I didn't agree to anything, Your Honor. 21

I think you may have made a ruling on it. 22

THE COURT: No, no, I thought you did. I'm sorry. 23

MR. KAWSKI: I'm sorry, I did not. I'm still 24

objecting that they're hearsay. 04:24 25

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MR. CURTIS: I take it I can't -- I'm a bit at a loss 1

here, Your Honor, because I would be happy to give Mr. Kawski a 2

copy of this, but it's his position that I would be committing a 3

crime if I make a copy. So I'm not sure what to do. 4

MR. KAWSKI: Your Honor, it's not my position it's the 04:25 5

law's position. 6

THE COURT: Okay. Well, these are public records. 7

Mr. Curtis, your position is that they're admissible under an 8

exception? Is that it? Or what? 9

MR. CURTIS: They're really not being offered for a 04:25 10

hearsay purpose, Your Honor. 11

THE COURT: What are think being offered for? 12

MR. CURTIS: Again, as part of the story -- 13

THE COURT: Okay. They're admitted for that purpose 14

and not for the truth of the matter stated then. 04:26 15


THE COURT: Even though you didn't agree they're still 17

admitted for that purpose. 18

MR. KAWSKI: Thank you. 19

MR. CURTIS: Your Honor, may I submit to the Court the 04:26 20

actual copy? 21

THE COURT: Sure. So are there any other evidentiary 22

disputes? 23

MS. ROTKER: Your Honor, we just want to make sure we 24

have the numbers that are in the record. Our understanding is, 04:26 25

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and to confirm the lack of objections, is that it's 108 and then 1

591, 592, and 595 through 598? 2

THE COURT: Okay. Without objection those are all 3

admitted. 4

MR. KAWSKI: We have not said without objection, Your 04:26 5

Honor. We would like to address each of those. Starting with 6

108 then. If we could please grab the binder we can take a look 7

at it. 8

MS. ROTKER: Your Honor, that was the letter from Ms. 9

Brown's school which is what she had in lieu of a birth 04:27 10

certificate and she used to get her Medicare. We were admitting 11

for the purpose of showing that and showing that she attempted 12

to go to DMV with that and was told she had to have a birth 13

certificate which she does not have. So -- 14

THE COURT: We're talking about 108? 04:27 15

MS. ROTKER: Yeah. That's what we're talking about. 16

THE COURT: So it's -- I think they're admitting that 17

again not for the truth, just to show that that was not adequate 18

whatever it is. 19

MR. KAWSKI: We would object that it's hearsay but as 04:27 20

long as Your Honor is ruling that it's not hearsay under the 21

definition of hearsay then we will accept that ruling. 22

THE COURT: Okay. I mean, it's not being offered for 23

the truth of the matter stated which is -- 24

MS. ROTKER: We also think that it may fall under 04:28 25

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803(9), public records of vital statistics, which also makes it 1

admissible. 2

MR. KAWSKI: The next exhibit is 591 which is 3

application for certified copy of birth/death certificate. 4


MR. KAWSKI: In addition to that it has a copy of a 6

check from Kenneth Brown written to Louisiana DHH Center for 7

Records and Statistics, and then a copy of Kenneth Brown's 8

driver's license front and back along with a -- looks like an 9

envelope to the center for records and statistics New Orleans, 04:28 10

Louisiana. We object to this as hearsay. 11

MS. ROTKER: Mr. Brown testified that he completed and 12

sent that in along with a check and a copy of his driver's 13

license and we redacted the number on the driver's license. I 14

mean, it comes in for the truth that he sent that in to try to 04:29 15

get his mother's birth certificate. 16

THE COURT: I'll allow that. 17

MR. KAWSKI: Number 592 is a State of Louisiana, a 18

letter, first a letter and the second page is a certification of 19

birth from the state of Louisiana. The third page is looks like 04:29 20

a letter, front of a piece of mail, I'm not sure if it's to the 21

State of Louisiana or from the state of Louisiana. We would 22

object to all these as hearsay. 23

MS. ROTKER: Again, Your Honor, it's 803(9). It's 24

vital records. He testified it's what he got back in the mail. 04:29 25

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K. Brown/Cross


THE COURT: Yeah, overruled. 1

MR. KAWSKI: I would say that, Your Honor, although 2

the certification of birth may be a vital record the rest is 3

not. 4

MS. ROTKER: It's a public record at that point. It's 04:29 5

the public record that certifies what it is -- 6

THE COURT: I ruled. What's the next one? 7

MR. KAWSKI: Next one is 596. 8

MS. ROTKER: 595. 9

MR. KAWSKI: 595, sorry. 04:30 10

THE COURT: Every one of these is being objected to? 11

MR. KAWSKI: Yes, Your Honor. 12

THE COURT: Is this going to set a pattern for 13

everything in this case? I mean -- 14

MS. ROTKER: This is going to slow things. 04:30 15

THE COURT: Does it matter? I guess I -- 16

MR. KAWSKI: Your Honor, we think the record does 17

matter in this case. 18

THE COURT: No, I think the record matters a lot 19

but -- 04:30 20

MS. ROTKER: 595, Mr. Winslow came in and testified 21

that after he was unable to get his mother an ID when he took 22

her to DMV he filled this out and sent it to his state 23

legislator. 24

MR. KAWSKI: Objection. 04:30 25

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THE COURT: All right. I'm going to sustain the 1

objection. I'm sustaining the objection. What's the next one? 2

MR. KAWSKI: 596, Your Honor. 3

THE COURT: I mean, all this was testified to without 4

objection, so I don't even -- anyway. Go ahead. 04:30 5

MS. ROTKER: Again, 596 and 597, Mr. Winslow testified 6

that he was handed this card and he attempted to follow up with 7

calling -- 8

THE COURT: Miranda Horton's card you're objecting to? 9

MR. KAWSKI: Miranda Horton's card is hearsay. 04:31 10

THE COURT: Is it assertion? What is the truth of the 11

matter that it's being offered for? It's a person's name. Is 12

that an assertion? 13

MR. KAWSKI: We'd like to make the objection, Your 14

Honor, and have you rule on it. 04:31 15

THE COURT: Overruled. 16


MS. ROTKER: And Sandra Brisco, we're offering -- what 18

we are offering for is that that was what Mr. Winslow was handed 19

by DMV, the 597, and that is the number he attempted to call 04:31 20

which he said he couldn't remember. When he saw the card he 21

remembered who he attempted to call. That was on the reverse of 22

Miranda Horton's card. 23

THE COURT: The name Sandra Brisco and her phone 24

number? 04:31 25

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MS. ROTKER: It was written on the reverse of what is 1

on -- 2

THE COURT: That's what you're objecting to? 3

MR. KAWSKI: Yes, Your Honor, objection. Hearsay. 4

THE COURT: Why is it hearsay? Is it a declaration? 04:31 5

It has to be a declarations of some sort. What is the 6

declaration here? 7

MR. KAWSKI: Out-of-court statement written -- 8

THE COURT: It's not a statement. How is it a 9

statement? What is the statement here? Look, you have a right 04:32 10

to preserve your record, I urge you to do it. I urge you to 11

make all even marginally legitimate objections, but I emphasize 12

the word marginal. Overruled. 13


MS. ROTKER: And then lastly 598 which was 04:32 15

Mrs. Shirley Simon's. It was the affidavit that she used to try 16

to explain the discrepancy between her birth certificate that 17

had been prepared for when she went to get a passport in 1974. 18

And again it's being used to show that this document was taken 19

to DMV and was initially rejected by DMV. 04:32 20

THE COURT: Well, it won't be accepted for the truth 21

of the matter stated. 22

MR. KAWSKI: Objection, hearsay. Just for the record. 23

THE COURT: That's what I'm saying. I'm going to 24

sustain this objection. 04:32 25

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K. Brown/Cross


MS. ROTKER: It's also an ancient document, 1

Your Honor. 2

THE COURT: Sustained. Sustained. 3

MS. ROTKER: Can it be admitted not for the truth of 4

the matter? 04:33 5

THE COURT: Well, if the hearsay -- if there's an 6

objection for hearsay obviously it can be -- what alternative 7

reason do you want to -- I mean, it has to have some reason to 8

be admitted. What do you want it for? 9

MS. ROTKER: We want to admit it to show that while 04:33 10

this was allowed to get Ms. Simon a passport when she took it to 11

DMV, they would not initially permit it for her to get a state 12

ID card. 13

THE COURT: It's -- I'll allow it for the purposes of 14

showing that she took this to the DMV. And it was part of her 04:33 15

effort to try to get an ID. And I won't admit it for the 16

content of it. So to the extent that -- to the extent that you 17

want to use it to show the content of it or the statement that 18

was made or some kind of an assertion, the objection is 19

sustained. To the extent that you want to admit it to show that 04:34 20

it was something that she took to the DMV to try to get an ID, 21

it's admitted for that purpose. 22

MS. ROTKER: Okay. The only other exhibit, and we're 23

perfectly willing to wait on that, is Exhibit 9 which is one of 24

our exhibits but was used with one of the Jones plaintiffs. You 04:34 25

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K. Brown/Cross


know, Mr. Kennedy, will I believe authenticate that document 1

later in the week, we're willing to wait on that, or we can just 2

admit it now. 3

MR. KAWSKI: The only other two we had on our list 4

were 9 and 227, and frankly we have no objection to those, 04:34 5

Your Honor. 6

THE COURT: Okay, those are admitted then without 7

objection. 8

And what's the other one, 598 is what you're talking 9

about? Oh, that's admitted then? 04:34 10

MS. ROTKER: 227 is a Jones 227. It's a Frank 9 and a 11

Jones 227. 12

THE COURT: Okay, that's in then. So are we done with 13

that? 14

MR. KAWSKI: Yes, Your Honor. 04:34 15

THE COURT: Okay. So now we're going to watch the 16

videos. Whoever is interested is going to watch the videos. 17

MS. ROTKER: Judge, we can watch it in open court. If 18

you would prefer to watch it in your chambers that's fine, we 19

have no objection to that. Whatever you prefer. 04:35 20

THE COURT: Yeah, I think there's a groundswell. 21

MS. ROTKER: But -- okay. The only thing that we want 22

to clarify with the Court, and we're fine with it being watched 23

in chambers, we want to ensure that we've got two exhibits that 24

are referenced in the Ruthelle Frank deposition and one in the 04:35 25

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K. Brown/Cross


Nancy Wilde deposition that we also want to mark and move in. 1

THE COURT: Okay. 2

MR. KAWSKI: And what are those? 3

MR. DUPUIS: This is Lawrence Dupuis, ACLU, for the 4

Frank plaintiffs. 5

The exhibits are Frank Plaintiffs' 603 which is Frank 6

Deposition Exhibit 4. 7

Frank Plaintiffs' Exhibit 604 which was Frank -- in 8

the deposition it was labeled Exhibit 5. 9

And then for Winslow -- I'm sorry, for Wilde is 04:36 10

Exhibit 121. And those are not offered for their truth but 11

for -- 12

THE COURT: There's -- nobody objects to this anyway 13

as I understand it. These are these depositions, these video 14

depositions. 04:36 15

MR. KAWSKI: We're not objecting to the video 16

depositions but we're talking about exhibits that were used in 17

those depositions, Your Honor. So that's a little bit 18

different. We're talking about documents that were shown to the 19

witnesses. 04:37 20

MR. DUPUIS: And we'd be moving to admit those into 21

evidence. 22

THE COURT: Any objection? 23

MR. KAWSKI: No objection. 24

THE COURT: Okay. So ordered. 04:37 25

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MS. ROTKER: And you prefer to watch the videos in 1

chambers, Your Honor? 2

THE COURT: Just a minute. Do we have transcripts of 3

them or do we have -- 4

MR. DUPUIS: We have a transcript -- yeah, we can give 04:37 5

you the transcript of Ruthelle Frank and Wilde. 6

MS. ROTKER: Although we urge the Court to watch the 7

videos. Always better than transcripts. 8

THE COURT: If we -- you know, if I ever need to cite 9

it, how do I cite it? 04:37 10

MR. DUPUIS: You can cite it by the deposition page 11

and line obviously. We believe it would be useful to see the 12

witness testify. 13

THE COURT: You have a transcript though. 14

MR. DUPUIS: Yes, we have transcripts for both. 04:38 15

THE COURT: Can we have that, both, the video and the 16

transcript? 17

MS. ROTKER: Absolutely. 18

THE COURT: Okay. That's what we would prefer. 19

MR. KAWSKI: We don't object to that, Your Honor. We 04:38 20

think that it would be easier for you to read the transcripts 21

since you're going to be citing it anyway. 22

THE COURT: Well, I don't know if I'm going to be 23

citing it but it's hard to cite a video. 24

MR. DUPUIS: You can cite it by time but that's 04:38 25

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typically in places where you don't have a transcript. 1

THE COURT: Okay. We will want both then. 2

MS. ROTKER: We will provide both to you promptly. 3

THE COURT: Okay. Then I guess everybody goes home 4

now. 04:38 5

MS. ROTKER: We're working on our schedule for the 6

rest of the week as we speak. 7

THE COURT: Okay. So you got the picture now as to 8

how things go? 9

Okay. 10:00 o'clock tomorrow. 04:39 10

(Proceedings concluded at 4:39 p.m.)11

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C E R T I F I C A T E

I, JOHN T. SCHINDHELM, RMR, CRR, Official Court Reporter for the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Wisconsin, do hereby certify that the foregoing pages are a true and accurate transcription of my original machine shorthand notes taken in the aforementioned matter to the best of my skill and ability.

Signed and Certified November 4, 2013. /s/John T. SchindhelmJohn T. Schindhelm

John T. Schindhelm, RPR, RMR, CRR United States Official Reporter 517 E Wisconsin Ave., Rm 236,

Milwaukee, WI 53202 Website: WWW.JOHNSCHINDHELM.COM

239

I N D E X 1

OPENING STATEMENT2

BY MS. ROTKER.................................... 73

OPENING STATEMENT4

BY MR. ULIN...................................... 125

OPENING STATEMENT6

BY MR. KAWSKI.................................... 247

8

WITNESS EXAMINATION PAGE9

ALICE WEDDLE, PLAINTIFF WITNESS 10

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. EICHNER................ 3411

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. KAWSKI.................. 3912

EDDIE HOLLOWAY, PLAINTIFF WITNESS 13

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. YOUNG.................. 4214

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LENNINGTON............. 5215

DEBRA CRAWFORD, PLAINTIFF WITNESS 16

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. CURTIS................. 5517

RICKEY DAVIS, PLAINTIFF WITNESS 18

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CHAPMAN................ 8419

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. LAZAR................... 9020

GENEVIEVE WINSLOW, PLAINTIFF WITNESS 21

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. PRINC.................. 9422

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. LENNINGTON.............. 10123

JEFFREY WINSLOW, PLAINTIFF WITNESS 24


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MARIAN SIMON, PLAINTIFF WITNESS

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. ROTKER................. 112


REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. ROTKER............... 125

NICOLE COLLAZO-SANTIAGO, PLAINTIFF WITNESS

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. CORSON................. 126


REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. CORSON............... 135

YOLANDA ADAMS, PLAINTIFF WITNESS

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. ULIN................... 136


CARMEN CABRERA, PLAINTIFF WITNESS

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. EICHNER................ 163


LUIS GARZA, PLAINTIFF WITNESS

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. FOSTER................. 179


REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. FOSTER............... 197

RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. LENNINGTON............ 203

SHIRLEY BROWN, PLAINTIFF WITNESS


KENNETH BROWN, PLAINTIFF WITNESS



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