transcript dec 28 2000 sealed bankruptcy wiretap hearing hidden for 5 years

8/14/2019 Transcript Dec 28 2000 sealed bankruptcy wiretap hearing hidden for 5 years

1/19

UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURTSOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA

i 6 S - - - - 'd /CASE NO. 97-86-BK -AJC

IN RE:STEPHAN JAY LAWRENCE,

Debtor.

DECEMBER 28, 2000

,.1

HEARING RE: STATUS CONFERENCE

The above-entitled cause came on for hearingbefo re the HONORABLE A. JAY CRISTOL, at the ClaudePepper Federal Building, 14th Floor, Miami, DadeCounty, Florida,at 2:00 p.m.on Thursday,December 28, 2000, and the following proceedings werehad: F I T 7 ,5 7 . 7 ; 74 , i 7 7 . 7 . ; 5 , . . . . . . .z L . 1 & T c i . e . : : 1 - 1 1 ) 7 .- ki/ c t i p 26 ,10,05 IF I L E DI2345691 0111 3141 516171 81920212223

2425

OUELLE I zL & MAULDIN COURT REPORTERS305-358-8875


2/19

1

3

5

b

89

Page 2

APPEARANCES:BERGER DAVIS & SINGERMANby: JAMES FIERBERG, ESQUIREPAUL AVRON, ESQUIREon behalf of the TrusteeU.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICEby: GRISEL ALONSO, ATTORNEY-AT-LAWon behalf of the U.S. Attorney's OfficeFEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONSby:ELIZABETH GARCIA, ATTORNEY-AT-LAWon behalf of the Federal Bureau of PrisonsOFFICE OF THE UNITED STATES TRUSTEEby: ROBERT ANGUEIRA, ESQUIRE

10 on behalf of the Office of the United StatesTrustee

1 1ALSO PRESENT:

12Juval Aviv (Via telephone)

131415161718192021

2425

OUELLETTE & MAULDIN COURT 1FPOKTERS305-358-8875


3/19

123456789

10111213141516171819202122232425

Page 3THE COURT: Two o'clock calendar. Stephan

Jay Lawrence, status conference. Would everyone statetheir appearance, please.

MR. FIERBERG: Good afternoon, Judge. JamesFierbe rg, Berger Davis and Singerman, on behalf of theTrustee, Alan Goldberg, and with me at counsel table ismy colleague, Paul Avron.

THE COURT: Very well.MS. ALONSO: Good afternoon, Judge. Grisel

Alonso, Assistant United States Attorney. Also with metoday is Elizabet h Garcia, an attor ney with the legalstaff of the Federal Bureau of Prisons, on be half ofthe Feder al Bureau of Prisons.

THE COURT: Very well. Okay. We're here ona status conference, I believe. What do we have totalk about?

MR. FIERBERG: Judge, this is respective ofthe Trustee's request for discovery from the Bureau ofPrisons for, more specifically, the tape recordedconversations of Mr. Lawrence.

Before we begin, Judge, I'd like to make arequest that per haps the Court could contact Mr. JuvalAviv who is our special investigato r under orde r ofthis Court under seal. I think he has reviewed certainof the se tapes and his input and analysis may be

OUELLE'TTE & MAULDIN COURT REPORTERS305-358-8875


4/19

123456789

10111213141516171819202122

Page 4helpful to t he Court in deter mining whether this ordershould be --

THE COURT: How could he review the tapes?MR. FIERBERG: I beg your pardon?THE COURT: How did he review them?MR. FIERBERG: Because they were made

available t o us and we --THE COURT: Oh, they were? Oh, I'm sorry. I

thought that we were talking about whether you wer egoing to 'get to see them.

MR. FIERBERG: Judge, let me go back a secondbefore you call Mr. Aveve. On December 5th, Judge,actually called it an emer gency hearing in this matter,we were unable t o coo peratively and amicably work outwith the Bureau of Prisons pursuant t o t he proceduresthat were discussed at the first hearing.

The Bureau was unwilling to voluntarilyprovide the tapes. So we set this up for an emergencyhearing befor e Judge Utschig and after hearing counselJudge Utschig, in fact, ente red an orde r and I have acopy. I don't know if Your Honor has seen a copy.

THE COURT: No, I don't think I have. I wasunaware of it.

MR. FIERBERG: May I approach?THE COURT: You may.

OUELLE & MAULDIN COURT REPORTERS305-358-8875

2425


5/19


6/19

123456789

101112

-----13141516171819202122232425

Page 6orders, and we're here today to pro vide an update and astatus report o n the tapes that actually have beenprovided. I do want to say that the Bureau of Prisonshave been most cooperative since the entry of thatorder. We're very appreciative of what they have doneto help us.

Judge, the log that was provided to us onDecember 5 th showed approximately 610 or so phone callsmade by Mr. Lawrence betwee n his incarceration onSeptember 15th and December 15th.

THE COURT: That's all?MR. FIERBERG: That's all. He must have run

out . - o - f - -d.me-s-i---Judge-: Because-- of-coat_ to _the estatefor the recording of all of those tapes, thoseconversations, and the burden on t he Bureau of Prisons,we elect ed to make a sampling of the tapes, kind ofjudicious sampling, - and we requested 41 conversations.

The bulk of them were calls to Mexico,

OUELLETTE & MAULDIN COURT REPORTERS305-3584875


7/19

Page 7

Although we didn't find any smoking guns forthe lay people, Judge, we did find some inter estingmaterial on the tapes that would lead me with myknowledge of this case, and certainly Mr. Aveve wit hhis specialized knowledge, to belie ve that Mr. Lawrenceknows a lot abo ut the Lawrence Family Inter VivousTrust and that he is continuing to contr ol andmanipulate that trust from prison.

Let me give you a little bit of b ackground ofwhat these tapes say.

THE COURT: Mr. Aveve, your phone is buzzing.Are you still here?

MR. AVEVE: Yes, I'm here.MR. FIERBERG: Mr. Lawrence spends a great

deal of time on these t apes, Judge,the personal representative of the estateof his late mother. That estate is comprised of somenominal assets. There are three pieces of property; acooper ative in New York City, and two condominiums inSouth Florida, and that is it. We're not talking about

lot of value.Nevertheless, Mr. Lawrence spends a great

123456789

10111213141516171819202122232425

OUEU.ETrE & MAULDJN COURT REPORTERS305-358-8875


8/19

deal of time on these tapes

Despite the no minal nature o f that estate,Mr.

So there is some tie, annexes, that we can'tyet see between the probate estatbyand the offshore trust.Judge, I have four tapes here. We askedCheryl if you had a tape recor der available, cassetterecorder, to listen to these. I think you'll find them

THE COURT: Pardon me. Yes, sir, what matterare you on?

UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: The Acelor matter.THE COURT: That matter will be coming up

soon. I'll ask you to remain outside until we call it.UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Yes, sir.THE COURT: Thank you.

789

10111213141516171819202122232425

OUELLETTE & MAULDIN COURT REPORTERS305-358-8875


9/19

123456

910111213141516171819202122232425

P a g e 9MR. FIERBERG: We asked Cheryl if there was a

cassette recorder available to Your Honor. We couldnot bring one in because of the marshalls, but if youwere to listen to some port ions of these four tapes Ithink you would be compelled, in conjunction with

Aveve's statements, to allow this order to continuefor a reasonable period of time_

Having said that, Miss Alonso just told methat they, t he Bureau of Prisons, does not have anobjection to a continuation of the order for reasonabletime. So maybe we can cut through this except to theextent you'd be interested in hearing what is on thetapes.

THE COURT: Well, my job is re solvingdisputes. If you don't have a dispute, I think -- andyou can agree to what's a reasonable period of t ime,let's dispose of that, and if you think there'ssomething that is important for me to hear, I'llcertainly hear it, but, again, there's no point inpushing something that's already rolling.

MR. FIERBERG: I agree, Judge.MS. ALONSO: We most certainly agree with

that statement, Your Honor, and that is precisely theissue in t his case, reasonableness, and the burden onthe Bureau of --

OUELLETTE & MAULDIN COURT REPORTERS305-3584875


10/19

1234

' 56789

10111213141516171819202122232425

Page 10THE COURT: What do you think, about 2007

would be a good extension?MS. ALONSO: I'm sorry?THE COURT: 2007?MS. ALONSO: Well, the problem, and it's a

real problem we have at the moment, in order to complywith the order the Bureau has taken out 26 reels, andthese are the master reels that the Bureau has to takeout of circulation, and these are the reels in whichthe conversations were taped, the sampling that theTrustee requested, and these tapes are now completelyout of circulation and depending on the time frame --

THE COURT: Well, haven't they been copied sothey can be put back in?

MR. FIERBERG: Judge, there's an evidentiaryissue. I spoke with Miss Alonso on the way in herethat many, a vast majority of the tapes, can go backinto rot ation immediately because they will never b eneeded for evidentiary purposes. There are probablyeight or 10 of the 41 that is of interest to us.

MS. ALONSO: Right. That's an issue that weheard this morning, but for the time being pursuant toour order, t he order that we agreed to, we were underthe impression that the Trustee would reimburse us andactually buy/purchase r eels.



11/19

123456789

10111213141516171819202122232425

, ,

Page I IIn terms of his -- we're go ing to be facing a

burden, a real burden, in terms of complying with theorder, taking these reels out of circulation anddepending on the time frame that we'r e speaking of,with an inmate that makes a substant ial amount of phonecalls, but I think this is a matter --

THE COURT: I thought they all make 610 callsin 90 days?

MS. ALONSO: They need to pay for these phonecalls and they need to have money in their account t ocover the expenses of these phone calls. So I think ifwe can somehow perhaps narrow the r equest -- theTrustee was indicating to me privately that he wanted a90 day extension of the o rder , and I think --

THE COURT: And what do you want?MS. ALONSO: I think 30 days would be a

sufficient amount of time and perhaps a furtheragreement that if they don't need these tapes notify usin writing and we can put these r eels back intocirculation and avoid any further delay and burden onthe Bure au, and also, obviously, the Truste e would besaving himself a substantial amount of money for t heestate.

So that is our main concern, and cert ainlythe burden placed on the Bureau because we have not

OUELLt .i It & M AULDIN COU RT REPORTERS305-358-8875


12/19

232425

P a g e 1 2even reached the issue of re imbursement for overtimefor the personnel that has been pulled off of theirduties and - have to comply with making these tapes andproviding them to Trustee 's counsel.

THE COURT: We ll, I would suggest yo.0 all sitdown and go over this and see if you can come up withan order, and if there are any items on which you'renot in accord, then I will give you a ruling.

MR. FIERBERG: Judge, may I address` the timeframe? Mr. Aveve may be able to help us with this.

There are matters ongoing in Europe t hat willhopefully come to a head in the issuance of a maravainjunction in England and a freeze o rder inSwitzerland. Mr. Aveve has located accounts that webelieve belong to Mr. Lawrence. We need to have thisorder extended at least long enough to allow Mr. Aveve

THE COURT: What's your estimate on the time,Mr. Aveve?

MR. AVEVE: To listen or to keep -- to listento new recor dings?

THE COURT: To extend the order for listeningto new recordings. Mr. Fierberg has asked for 90 days,the Government said they'd like 30 days. What's yourthought?

OUPJ J.ETTE & M AULDIN COURT REPORTERS305-358-887534567

910111213141516171819

r^ ,L Li

21


13/19

1

3456789

10111213141516171819202122232425

Page 13MR. AVEVE: I think we could compromise. If

we can get another 30 days and revisit it again. Weare on the eve of freezing his bank accounts inEngland, Switzer land and Lichtenst ein.

I've provided the Co urt in England with anaffidavit based on our information. The Judge inEngland has granted us an injunction under seal andex-parte and the banks in England have provided us withall of the records of the accounts that we already knewabout , and indeed ther e are millions of dollars inthose accounts.

THE COURT: Well, that's very interesting.So then let's go with 30 days. In fact, let's make it40 days so maybe you won't have to come back.

MR. AVEVE: I appreciate that very much, yes.THE COURT: So let's go with 40 days.What else do we have to decide on that you

can't agree upon, if anything?MR. FIERBERG: I think probably nothing,

Judge. We have a check we were going to present todayfor the t apes and now we're going to amend that be causewe're going to put tapes back into r otation so we don'thave to pay for those.

THE COURT: Okay. Then work these things outand whatever you can't work out you can, have a hearing

OUELLETTE & MAULDIN COURT REPORTERS305-358-&875


14/19

123456789

1011121314151617

1819202 122232425

Page 14whenever you need it, except you can't have onetomorrow. I'm going flying.

MR. FIERBERG: I'm envious, Judge.Should we set a status conference 40 days

out?THE COURT: Let's set it sooner than 40 days.

Say, set it 3 0 days out or 3 5 days out, approximately.MR. FIERBERG: And we'll see Barbara and have

that set up?THE COURT: Uh-huh.MR. FIERBERG: Okay. The only other issue,

Judge, as long as we're here, t he Coudert Brot hers asyou know have been ret ained as special counsel to dealwith the issues in Europe, and they have been requiredto engage barristers to go into court there.

According to the terms of the order yousigned we're not officially able to engage t hem and paythem for their work, or the Coudert Brothers is not.We'd like to present, as long as we're here, anotherorder under seal amending the prior ret ention order o fCoudert Brothers to permit the engagement of thebarristers.

THE COURT: Solicitors?MR. FIERBERG: That's right, Judge.THE COURT: I thought that they were br eaking



15/19

123456789

l a111213141516171819202122232425

P a g e 1 5that down and they were allowing solicitors to go intocourt.

MR. FIERBERG: Apparently not vet.THE COURT: No yet, okay.MR. FIERBERG: And Mr. Avron is here and can

present that to the Court. I'll advise the Court thatwe are going to present similar papers, hopefully inthe next week or 10 days, for Swiss counsel to carryout what Mr. Aveve is alluding to and those will alsocome under seal.

THE COURT: Okay. Present that order, andwhat else do we have to do here today?

MR. AVEVE: If I may, Your Honor, this isMr. Aveve?

THE COURT: Yes, sir.MR. AVEVE: A prisoner has to submit

telephone numbers for approval. If we could get thelist of telephone numbers that he has submitted forapproval that would help us a lot to identifyfurthermore the nominees that he's calling and undercode instructing them to move money.

THE COURT: Got that, Mr. Fierberg?MR. FIERBERG: I did. We've discussed that

and I believe the Bureau's going to make that availableto us.



16/19

23456789

10111213141516171819202122232425

Page 16THE COURT: Okay. Then the problem is

solved. Today's the 28th. Okay. This order has beenentered.

What more do we need to do here today,Mr. Fierberg?

MR. FIERBERG: Judge, if you'll permit us,we'll walk this thro ugh the Clerk's Office to make sureit's sealed properly.

THE COURT: Government have anything else?MS. ALONSO: The only thing is a housekeeping

matte r. We are duly complying with Paragraph 6 ofJudge Utschig's Decembe r 18th orde r which was requiringthe Bureau to turn over an updated telephone log fromDecember 5 through December 19 -- I'm sorry -- it'sthrough today. Its further -- producing an updatedlog through Decemb er 28, and we're doing that and wealso will be pro ducing the author ized telephone listthat Mr. Lawrence has signed with the Bureau. We'll dothat.

THE COURT: Okay. So that takes care of thatproblem. Then is there anything else we need to do?

MR. FIERBERG: I think that's all. Judge,thank you for your time.

THE COURT: Okay. As far as the Governmentis concerned, anytime you need a hearing it's yours for

OUELLETTE & MAULDD1 COURT REPORIERS30 5-358-8875


17/19

1234

56

910

1213141516171819

2'22232425

Page 17the asking. The Court is available 24 hours a day,seven days a week, and whatever needs to be done toresolve this problem we'll all try and work together toresolve it.

Are we ready to close up?MR. FIERBERG: We are.THE COURT: Mr. Aveve, I hear d you speak in

Dallas, Texas about t wo or three years ago.MR. AVEVE: That's right, Judge.THE COURT: It sounds like you do what you

said you could do.MR. AVEVE: Yes, I did. I delivered on this

one and I'm very pleased of it. Thank you.THE COURT: Okay. Toda raba.MR. AVEVE: Toda raba. Thank you.THE COURT: Okay. We'll finish this hearing

and good day.MR. AVEVE: Okay. Thank you to you too.THE COURT: Okay.MR. FIERBERG: May I approach with the

orders, Judge?THE COURT: You may, and you may have these

items. The order is signed.MR. FIERBERG: Thank you, Judge. Have a

Happy New Year.

OUELLETTE & M A U L D IN C O U R T REPORTERS305-358-8875


18/19

Page 18THE COURT: Thank you.(Whereupon, the hearing was concluded.)

1

345678

10111213141516171819202122232425

OUELLE FIE & M AULDIN COURT REPORTERS305-358-8875


19/19

Page 19

CERTIFICATE OF REPORTERSTATE OF FLORIDA )

: SSCOUNTY OF DADE)I, GWEN M. TIPALDI, Notary Public in and forthe State of Florida at Large, do hereby certifythat I was authorized to and did report thefore going procee ding; and that the transcript is a truerecord. Dated this 15 th day of September, 2005 .134567

89

10

11

1213141516171819202122232425


transcript dec 28 2000 sealed bankruptcy wiretap hearing hidden for 5 years

Documents