tice: is the nsa conducting electronic warfare on americans?

7/29/2019 TICE: Is the NSA Conducting Electronic Warfare On Americans?

1/14

HYPERLINK "http://www.americanchronicle.com" INCLUDEPICTURE "http://www.americanchronicle.com/images/logos/americanchronicle.png" \*MERGEFORMATINETTuesday, March 10, 2009 11:34:46 AM

HYPERLINK "http://www.americanchronicle.com" Home | HYPERLINK "http://www.jdoqocy.com/click-1750408-10389843" \t"_blank" Shop | HYPERLINK "http://www.americanchronicle.com/notices/submit-work" Send Us Info | HYPERLINK"http://www.americanchronicle.com/notices/subscribe" Subscribe | HYPERLINK"http://www.americanchronicle.com/notices/advertise" Advertise | HYPERLINK"http://www.americanchronicle.com/notices/help" Help | HYPERLINK "http://www.americanchronicle.com/notices/rss"INCLUDEPICTURE "http://www.americanchronicle.com/images/icon_rss.png" \* MERGEFORMATINET

Is the NSA Conducting Electronic Warfare On Americans?

Jonas Holmes May 19, 2006 CHRONICLE ARTICLE

Russ Tice, former NSA intelligence officer and current Whistleblower, was to testify before the SenateArmed Services Committee this week. Apparently the testimony, Mr. Tice wanted to give, makesGeneral Haydens phone surveillance program look like very small potatoes. Mr. Tices testimony isexpected to reveal further illegal activity overseen by General Michael Hayden which even loyal andpatriotic NSA employees view as unlawful.

I think the people I talk to next week are going to be shocked when I tell them what I have to tell them.

ITS PRETTY HARD TO BELIEVE, Tice said. I hope that theyll clean up the abuses and havesome oversight into these programs, which doesnt exist right now. According to Mr. Tice, what hasbeen disclosed so far is only the tip of the iceberg. What in the world could Russ Tice be talkingabout! To figure it out let us take a look at Russ Tices work at the NSA.

According to the Washington Times and numerous other sources, Mr. Tice worked on special accessprograms related to electronic intelligence gathering while working for the NSA and DIA, where hetook part in space systems communications, non-communications signals, electronic warfare, satellitecontrol, telemetry, sensors, and special capability systems. Special Access Programs or SAPs refer toBlack Budgets or Black Operations. Black means that they are covert and hidden from everyoneexcept the participants. Feasibly there would be no arena with a greater potential for abuse and misuse

than Special Access Programs. Even now Congress and the Justice Department are being denied theability to investigate these programs because they dont have clearance. To put it in CNNs JackCaffertys words a top secret government agency, the NSA, the largest of its kind in the world, isdenying oversight or investigation by the American people because investigators lack clearance. Toadd a layer of irony to the Black Ops cake this travesty is occurring in America, the supposed bastionof Freedom and Democracy, which we are currently trying to export to Iraq.It just gets scarier.The Black Ops that Mr. Tice was involved in related to electronic intelligencegathering via space systems communications, non-communications signals, electronic warfare, satellitecontrol, telemetry, sensors, and special capability systems. For greater insight as to the impact of theseprograms readers should review decades old FOIA authenticated programs such as MKULTRA,BLUEBIRD, COINTELPRO and ARTICHOKE. Radar based Telemetry involves the ability to

see through walls without thermal imaging. Electronic Warfare is even scarier if we take a look at thescience. NSA Signals Intelligence Use of EMF Brain Stimulation. NSA Signals Intelligence uses EMFBrain Stimulation for RemoteNeural Monitoring (RNM) and Electronic Brain Link (EBL). EMFBrain Stimulation has been in development since the MKUltra program of the early 1950's, whichincluded neurological research into "radiation" (non-ionizing EMF) and bioelectric research anddevelopment. The resulting secret technology is categorized at the National Security Archives as"Radiation Intelligence," defined as "information from unintentionally emanated electromagneticwaves in the environment, not including radioactivity or nuclear detonation." Signals Intelligenceimplemented and kept this technology secret in the same manner as other electronic warfare programs


2/14

of the U.S. government. The NSA monitors available information about this technology and withholdsscientific research from the public. There are also international intelligence agency agreements tokeep this technology secret.

The NSA has proprietary electronic equipment that analyzes electrical activity in humans from adistance. NSA computer-generated brain mapping can continuously monitor all the electrical activity in

the brain continuously. The NSA records and decodes individual brain maps (of hundreds of thousandsof persons) for national security purposes. EMF Brain Stimulation is also secretly used by the militaryfor Brain-to-computer link. (In military fighter aircraft, for example.) For electronic surveillancepurposes electrical activity in the speech center of the brain can be translated into the subject's verbalthoughts. RNM can send encoded signals to the brain's auditory cortex thus allowing audiocommunication direct to the brain (bypassing the ears). NSA operatives can use this to covertlydebilitate subjects by simulating auditory hallucinations characteristic of paranoidschizophrenia. Without any contact with the subject, Remote Neural Monitoring can map outelectrical activity from the visual cortex of a subject's brain and show images from the subject's brainon a video monitor. NSA operatives see what the surveillance subject's eyes are seeing. Visual memorycan also be seen. RNM can send images direct to the visual cortex. bypassing the eyes and optic nerves.NSA operatives can use this to surreptitiously put images in a surveillance subject's brain while theyare in R.E.M. sleep for brain-programming purposes. Individual citizens occasionally targeted forsurveillance by independently operating NSA personnel

NSA personnel can control the lives of hundreds of thousands of individuals in the U.S. by usingthe NSA's domestic intelligence network and cover businesses. The operations independently run by

them can sometimes go beyond the bounds of law. Long-term control and sabotage of tens ofthousands of unwitting citizens by NSA operatives is likely to happen. NSA Domint has theability to covertly assassinate U.S. citizens or run covert psychological control operations tocausesubjects to bediagnosed with ill mental health. National Security Agency Signals IntelligenceElectronic Brain Link Technology NSA SigInt can remotely detect, identify and monitor a person's

bioelectric fields. The NSA's Signals Intelligence has the proprietary ability to remotely and non-invasively monitor information in the human brain by digitally decoding the evoked potentials in the30-50 hz,.5 milliwatt electro-magnetic emissions from the brain. Neuronal activity in the brain creates ashifting electrical pattern that has a shifting magnetic flux. This magnetic flux puts out a constant 30-50hz, .5 milliwatt electromagnetic (EMF) wave. Contained in the electromagnetic emission from the brainare spikes and patterns called "evoked potentials."

Every thought, reaction, motor command, auditory event, and visual image in the brain has acorresponding "evoked potential" or set of "evoked potentials." The EMF emission from the brain canbe decoded into the current thoughts,images and sounds in the subject's brain.

NSA SigInt uses EMF-transmitted Brain Stimulation as a communications system to transmitinformation (as well as nervous system messages) to intelligence agents and also totransmit to the brains of covert operations subjects (on a non-perceptible level).

EMF Brain Stimulation works by sending a complexly coded and pulsed electromagnetic signal totrigger evoked potentials (events) in the brain, thereby forming sound and visual images in the brain'sneural circuits. EMF Brain Stimulation can also change a person's brain-states and affect motor control.


3/14

Two-way Electronic Brain-Link is done by remotely monitoring neural audio-visual information whiletransmitting sound to the auditory cortex (bypassing the ears) and transmitting faint images to thevisual cortex (bypassing the optic nerves and eyes, the images appear as floating 2-D screens in thebrain).

Two-Way Electronic Brain Link has become the ultimate communications system for CIA/NSA

personnel. Remote Neural Monitoring (RNM, remotely monitoring bioelectric information in thehuman brain) has become the ultimate surveillance system. It is used by a limited number of agents inthe U.S. Intelligence Community. RNM requires decoding the resonance frequency of each specificbrain area. That frequency is then modulated in order to impose information in That specific brain area.The frequency to which the various brain areas respond varies from 3 Hz to 50 Hz. Only NSA SignalsIntelligence modulates signals in this frequency band.

An example of EMF Brain Stimulation: Brain AreaBioelectric ResonanceFrequency Information Induced Through ModulationMotor Control Cortex 10 HZ Motor Impulse Co-ordinationAuditory Cortex 15 HZ Sound which bypasses the earsVisual Cortex 25 HZ Images in the brain, bypassing the eyesSomatosensory Cortex 09 HZ Phantom Touch SenseThought Center 20 HZ Imposed Subconscious Thoughts

This modulated information can be put into the brain at varying intensities from subliminal toperceptible.

Each person's brain has a unique set of bioelectric resonance/entrainment frequencies. Sending audioinformation to a person's brain at the frequency of another person's auditory cortex would result in thataudio information not being perceived.

Additionally, A 1994 congressional hearing reported that nearly half a million Americans weresubjected to some kind of cold war era tests, often without being informed and without their consent. In

addition, experimentation law is well grounded in constitutional and international law. It is an under-reported fact that two major reports on human rights and torture in the U.S. recentlylisted illegal radiation experiments. Many more facts are documented below. Therefore, humanresearch subject protections should be a high priority and are just as significant as current issues oftorture and illegal wiretapping.

It is time for America to wake up. It is time for America to protect its Whistleblowers who are our lastline of defense against dictatorship and despotism. It is time for America to take responsibility foroversight of its tax dollars and elect leaders who will assume such responsibility now. Yes, the war on

terrorism is important. It is even more important and fearful if the terrorism is from

within and unknowingly funded by hard working American citizens. There is noSpecial Access Program beyond the oversight of political leaders elected by the people and for thepeople. If these political leaders jeopardize national security then that shall be handled in a court oflaw. But to tell America, to tell the American people, to tell the political leaders elected by theAmerican people that America does not deserve to know what happening in the NSAs dark, blackrooms, with billions of dollars, behind closed doors, when we know that privilege has already beenabused; that is the true definition of terrorism. That is the true definition of Communism and a PoliceState, no oversight. So fellow Americans, you may hem and haw in the face of truth but know that one


4/14

day you will realize that your country has been usurped from the very principles upon which itwas founded.Godspeed, Russ Tice, the Patriots are with you.Followed by Democracy Now interview if and cant tell!

EXCLUSIVE: National Security Agency Whistleblower Warns DomesticSpying Program Is Sign the U.S. is Decaying Into a Police State

INCLUDEPICTURE "http://www.democracynow.org/images/story/72/2172/TiceRussell.jpg" \*MERGEFORMATINET

Former NSA intelligence agent Russell Tice condemns reports that the Agency has been engaged ineavesdropping on U.S. citizens without court warrants. Tice has volunteered to testify before Congressabout illegal black ops programs at the NSA. Tice said, The freedom of the American people cannotbe protected when our constitutional liberties are ignored and our nation has decayed into a policestate. [includes rush transcript]

HYPERLINK "http://www.democracynow.org/email/story/6496" Email to a friend

HYPERLINK "http://www.democracynow.org/pages/help/streaming" Help

HYPERLINK"http://www.democracynow.org/2006/1/3/exclusive_national_security_agency_whistleblower_warns"Printer-friendly version

HYPERLINK "http://www.democracynow.org/store/show/2006/1/3" Purchase DVD/CD

HYPERLINK "http://www.democracynow.org/2006/1/3/stream" LISTENWATCH HYPERLINK "http://play.rbn.com/?url=demnow/demnow/demand/2006/jan/video/dnB20060103a.rm&proto=rtsp&start=00:10:29" RealVideo Stream

HYPERLINK "http://play.rbn.com/?url=demnow/demnow/demand/2006/jan/audio/dn20060103.ra&proto=rtsp&start=00:10:29" RealAudio Stream

HYPERLINK "http://www.archive.org/download/dn2006-0103/dn2006-0103-1_64kb.mp3" MP3Download

HYPERLINK "http://www.democracynow.org/2006/1/3/stream" More

We turn now to the growing controversy over President Bushs decision to order the National SecurityAgency to eavesdrop on U.S. citizens inside the country without the legally required court warrants.Bushs decision was first revealed in the New York Times in mid-December. The Times published the

expose after holding the story for more than a year under pressure from the White House. The paperreportedly first uncovered the illegal order prior to the 2004 election. When the editors at the Timesdecided last month to go ahead with the article, President Bush personally summoned the paperspublisher, Arthur Sulzberger, and executive editor, Bill Keller, to the Oval Office in an attempt to talkthem out of running the story. Since the story broke, calls for Congressional hearings and the possibleimpeachment of the president have intensified. Conservative legal experts have even admitted Bushmay have committed an impeachable offense by ordering the NSA to break the law.

On Sunday, the New York Times revealed there was dissent within the upper echelon of the Bush


5/14

administration over the legality of the presidents order. According to the Times, Attorney GeneralJohn Ashcrofts top deputy, James Comey, refused to sign on to the continuation of the secret programin 2004 amid concerns about its legality and oversight. At the time, Comey was serving in place of thenAttorney General John Ashcroft while Ashcroft was hospitalized for a medical condition. Comeysrefusal prompted senior Presidential aides Andrew Card and Alberto Gonzales to visit Ashcroft in hishospital room to grant the approval. The Times reports Ashcroft expressed reluctance to sign on to the

program. It is unclear if he eventually relented. Both Ashcroft and Comeys concerns appear to haveled to a temporary suspension of parts of the program for several months. But the administration hasrepeatedly defended its actions.

President Bush, speaking on Sunday:If somebody from al-Qaeda is calling you, wed like to know why. In the meantime, this program isconscious of peoples civil liberties as am I. This is is a limited program designed to prevent attacks onthe United States of Americaand I repeat limited. It is limited to calls from outside the United Statesto calls within the United States. But, they are of known numbers of known al Qaeda members oraffiliates. I think most Americans understand the need to find out what the enemy is thinking. Andthats what we are doing. Were at war with a bunch of cold blooded killers who will kill in amoments notice. I have a responsibility to act within the law which I am doing. The program has been

reviewed constantly by Justice Department officials. A program to which the Congress has beenbriefed. A program that is in my judgment necessary to win this war and to protect the Americanpeople.

Meanwhile, the Washington Post is reporting that the NSA passed on records of intercepted email andphone calls to other government agencies including the FBI, the Defense Intelligence Agency, the CIAand the Department of Homeland Security. This news come on the heels of several other reports thatthe FBIs Joint Terrorism Task Force, military intelligence and local police departments have all beenengaged in monitoring peaceful groups including Greenpeace, PETAthe People for the EthicalTreatment of Animals, Catholic Worker, anti-war groups and even bicyclists in New York City. Duringthe 1960s and 1970s, the military used NSA intercepts to maintain files on U.S. peace activists. It wasthis domestic surveillance that led Congress to intervene and pass Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act

of 1978 in order to prevent future such abuses. The statute permits domestic intelligence surveillancewith the approval of a court order from the FISA court.

In 1975, Senator Frank Church, a Democrat from Idaho, said, We have a particular obligation toexamine the NSA, in light of its tremendous potential for abuse. . . . The interception of internationalcommunications signals sent through the air is the job of NSA; and, thanks to modern technologicaldevelopments, it does its job very well. The danger lies in the ability of the NSA to turn its awesometechnology against domestic communications.

Now Congress is considering holding a new round of hearings on Bushs domestic spying program. Abipartisan group series of Senators have already issued their public support including several topRepublicans including Senator Dick Lugar of Indiana, Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Arlen

Specter of Pennsylvania.Two weeks ago, a former NSA intelligence officer publicly announced that he wants to testify beforeCongress. His name is Russell Tice. For the past two decades he has worked in the intelligence fieldboth inside and outside government, most recently with the National Security Agency and DefenseIntelligence Agency. He was fired in May 2005 after he spoke out as a whistleblower.

In his letter, Tice wrote, It is with my oath as a US intelligence officer weighing heavy on my mindthat I wish to report to Congress acts that I believe are unlawful and unconstitutional. The freedom ofthe American people cannot be protected when our constitutional liberties are ignored and our nationhas decayed into a police state.


6/14

Russell Tice, former intelligence agent at the National Security Agency and Defense IntelligenceAgency. He worked at the NSA up until May 2005.

Rush Transcript

This transcript is available free of charge. However, donations help us provide closed captioning for thedeaf and hard of hearing on our TV broadcast. Thank you for your generous contribution.

HYPERLINK "http://www.democracynow.org/contribute/donate_money" Donate-HYPERLINK "http://www.democracynow.org/cart/add_donation?donation%5btype%5d=amt&donation%5bamt_selected%5d=25" $25, HYPERLINK"http://www.democracynow.org/cart/add_donation?donation%5btype%5d=amt&donation%5bamt_selected%5d=50" $50, HYPERLINK "http://www.democracynow.org/cart/add_donation?donation%5btype%5d=amt&donation%5bamt_selected%5d=100" $100, HYPERLINK"http://www.democracynow.org/get_involved/donate" More...

AMY GOODMAN: This is President Bush speaking on Sunday.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: I can say that if somebody from al-Qaeda is calling you, wedlike to know why. In the meantime, this program is conscious of peoples civil liberties, as am I. This isa limited program designed to prevent attacks on the United States of America. And I repeat: limited.And its limited to calls from outside the United States to calls within the United States. But, they areof known numbers of known al Qaeda members or affiliates. And I think most Americans understandthe need to find out what the enemy is thinking. And thats what we are doing. Were at war with abunch of cold-blooded killers who will kill on a moments notice. And I have a responsibility,obviously, to act within the law, which I am doing. Its a program has been reviewed constantly byJustice Department officials, a program to which the Congress has been briefed, and a program that isin my judgment necessary to win this war and to protect the American people.

AMY GOODMAN: That was President Bush speaking Sunday. Meanwhile, The Washington Postisreporting the N.S.A. passed on records of intercepted email and phone calls to other governmentagencies, including the F.B.I., the Defense Intelligence Agency, the C.I.A. and the Department of

Homeland Security. This news comes on the heels of several other reports that the F.B.I.s JointTerrorism Task Force, military intelligence and local police departments have all been engaged inmonitoring peaceful groups, including Greenpeace, PETA (the People for the Ethical Treatment ofAnimals), the Catholic Worker antiwar groups, and even cyclists in New York City.

During the 1960s and 1970s, the military used N.S.A. intercepts to maintain files on U.S. peaceactivists. It was this domestic surveillance that led Congress to intervene and pass the ForeignIntelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, in order to prevent future such abuses. The statute permitsdomestic intelligence surveillance with the approval of a court order from the FISA court.

In 1975, Senator Frank Church, a Democrat from Idaho, said, quote, We have a particular obligationto examine the N.S.A. in light of its tremendous potential for abuse. The interception of internationalcommunications signals sent through the air is the job of N.S.A., and thanks to modern technologicaldevelopments, it does its job very well. The danger lies in the ability of the N.S.A. to turn its awesometechnology against domestic communications, Church said.

Congress is now considering holding a new round of hearings on Bushs domestic spying program. Abipartisan group of senators have already issued their public support, including several topRepublicans, including Senator Dick Lugar of Indiana, Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, and ArlenSpecter of Pennsylvania. This is Democratic Senator Patrick Leahy of Vermont.

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY: This warrant-less eavesdropping program is not authorized by thePATRIOT Act, its not authorized by any act of Congress, and its not overseen by any court.


7/14

According to the reports its being conducted under a secret presidential order, based on secret legalopinions by the same Justice Department, lawyers, the same ones who argued secretly that thePresident could order the use of torture. Mr. President, it is time to have some checks and balances inthis country. We are a democracy. We are a democracy. Lets have checks and balances, not secretorders and secret courts and secret torture, and on and on.

AMY GOODMAN: That was Vermont Senator Patrick Leahy. Two weeks ago, a former N.S.A.

intelligence officer publicly announced he wants to testify before Congress. His name is Russell Tice.For the past two decades he has worked in the intelligence field, both inside and outside of government,most recently with the National Security Agency and the Defense Intelligence Agency. He was fired inMay 2005, after he spoke out as a whistleblower.

In his letter, Tice wrote, quote, Its with my oath as a U.S. intelligence officer weighing heavy on mymind that I wish to report to Congress acts I believe are unlawful and unconstitutional. The freedom ofthe American people cannot be protected when our constitutional liberties are ignored and our nationhas decayed into a police state.

Russell Tice joins us now in our Washington studio. Welcome to Democracy Now!

RUSSELL TICE: Good morning.

AMY GOODMAN: Its good to have you with us.

RUSSELL TICE: Thank you.

AMY GOODMAN: What made you decide to come forward? You worked for the top-secret agencyof this government, one that is far larger and even more secret than the C.I.A.

RUSSELL TICE: Well, the main reason is, you know, Im involved with some certain aspects of theintelligence community, which are very closely held, and I believe I have seen some things that areillegal. Ultimately its Congresss responsibility to conduct oversight in these things. I dont see ithappening. Another reason is there was a certain roadblock that was sort of lifted that allowed me to dothis, and I cant explain, but I will to Congress if allowed to.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about the letter you have written to Congress, your request totestify?

RUSSELL TICE: Well, its just a simple request under the Intelligence Community WhistleblowerProtection Act, which is a legal means to contact Congress and tell them that you believe thatsomething has gone wrong in the intelligence community.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you start off by talking overall? Since most people until recently, until thislatest story of President Bush engaging in these wiretaps of American citizens, as well as foreignnationals in this country, perhaps hadnt even heard of the N.S.A., can you just describe for us what isthe National Security Agency? How does it monitor these communications?

RUSSELL TICE: Well, the National Security Agency is an agency that deals with monitoring

communications for the defense of the country. The charter basically says that the N.S.A. will deal withcommunications ofoverseas. Were not allowed to go after Americans, and I think ultimately thatswhat the big fuss is now. But as far as the details of how N.S.A. does that, unfortunately, Im not atliberty to say that. I dont want to walk out of here and end up in an F.B.I. interrogation room.

AMY GOODMAN: Russell Tice, you have worked for the National Security Agency. Can you talkabout your response to the revelations that the Times, you know, revealed inperhaps late, knowingthe story well before the election, yet revealing it a few weeks agothe revelation of the wiretappingof American citizens?

RUSSELL TICE: Well, as far as an intelligence officer, especially a SIGINT officer at N.S.A., were


8/14

taught from very early on in our careers that you just do not do this. This is probably the number onecommandment of the SIGINT Ten Commandments as a SIGINT officer. You will not spy onAmericans. It is drilled into our head over and over and over again in security briefings, at least twice ayear, where you ultimately have to sign a paper that says you have gotten the briefing. Everyone atN.S.A. whos a SIGINT officer knows that you do not do this. Ultimately, so do the leaders of N.S.A.,and apparently the leaders of N.S.A. have decided that they were just going to go against the tenets of

something thats a gospel to a SIGINT officer.AMY GOODMAN: Were talking to Russell Tice. We will go to break and come back to him. Hes aformer intelligence agent with the National Security Agency and the Defense Intelligence Agency,worked at the N.S.A. up until May of this past year, May of 2005.

[break]

AMY GOODMAN: We talk to Russell Tice, former intelligence agent with the National SecurityAgency, formerly with the Defense Intelligence Agency, worked with the N.S.A. up until May 2005.Russell Tice, what happened then? What happened in May 2005?

RUSSELL TICE: Well, basically I was given my walking papers and told I was no longer a federalemployee. So

AMY GOODMAN: Why?

RUSSELL TICE: Some time ago I had some concerns about a co-worker at D.I.A. who exhibitedthe classic signs of being involved in espionage, and I reported that and basically got blown off bythe counterintelligence office at D.I.A. and kind of pushed the issue, because I continued to see apattern of there being a problem. And once I got back to N.S.A., I pretty much dropped the issue,but there was a report that came across my desk in April of 2003 about two F.B.I. agents thatwere possibly passing secret counterintelligence information to a Chinese double agent, KatrinaLeung, and I sent a secure message back to the D.I.A. counterintelligence officer, and I said Ithink the F.B.I. is incompetent, and the retaliation came down on me like a ton of bricks .

AMY GOODMAN: What would you say to those who say you are speaking out now simply because

you are disgruntled?RUSSELL TICE: Well, I guess thats a valid argument. You know, I was fired. But, you know, Ivekind of held my tongue for a long time now, and basically, you know, I have known these things havebeen going on for a while. The classification level of the stuff I deal with, basically what we call blackworld programs and operations, are very, very closely held. And you know, whether you think this isretaliation or not, I have something important to tell Congress, and I think they need to hear it. Id liketo think my motives arent retaliation, but, you know, after what I have been through, I can understandsomeones argument to think I have been jaded.

AMY GOODMAN: What about the risks you take as a whistleblower? I wanted to play a clip of F.B.I.whistleblower, Sibel Edmonds. She was working for the F.B.I. after 9/11 as a translator, translating

intercepts, and ultimately she lost her job. And I asked her if she was afraid of speaking out.SIBEL EDMONDS: There are times that I am afraid, but then again, I have to remind myself that thisis my civic duty and this is for the country, because what they are doing by pushing this stuff under thisblanket of secrecy, what they are hiding is against the publics welfare and interest. And reminding thatto myself just helps me, to a certain degree, overcome that fear.

AMY GOODMAN:That was Sibel Edmonds. Russell Tice, you are a member of her group, theNational Security Whistleblowers Coalition.

RUSSELL TICE: That, I am. National Security Whistleblower Coalition is basically put together of


9/14

people who are in sort of the same boat that I am in, that have brought whistleblower concerns to thepublic or to their perspective chain of supervisors and have been retaliated against. And the intelligencecommunity, all of the whistleblower protection laws arepretty much exempt the intelligencecommunity. So the intelligence community can put forth their lip service about, Oh, yeah, we wantyou to put report waste fraud abuse, or You shall report suspicions of espionage, but when theyretaliate you for doing so, you pretty much have no recourse. I think a lot of people dont realize that.

And Sibel has basically started this organization to bring these sort of concerns out into the public andultimately to get Congress to start passing some laws to protect folks that are going to be in a positionto let the public or just, you know, to let Congress know that crimes are being committed. And thatswhat were talking about. Were talking about a crime here. So, you know, all of this running aroundand looking for someone who dropped the dime on a crime is a whole lot different than something likethe Valerie Plame case.

AMY GOODMAN: What do you think of the Justice Department launching an investigation into theleak, who leaked the fact that President Bush was spying on American citizens?

RUSSELL TICE: Well, I think this is an attempt to make sure that no intelligence officer everconsiders doing this. What was done to me was basically an attempt to tell other intelligence

officers, Hey, if you do something like this, if you do something to tick us off, were going to takeyour job from you, were gonna do some unpleasant things to you.

So, right now, the atmosphere at N.S.A. and D.I.A., for that matter, is fear. The security servicesbasically rule over the employees with fear, and people are afraid to come forward. People knowif they come forward even in the legal means, like coming to Congress with a concern, yourcareer is over. And thats just the best scenario. Theres all sorts of other unfortunate things like,perhaps, if someone gets thrown in jail for either a witch-hunt or something trumping up chargesor, you know, this guy who is basically reporting a crime.

AMY GOODMAN: And what do you think of the news that the National Security Agency spying onAmerican citizens without a court order and foreign nationals is now sharing this information withother agencies like, well, the other agency you worked for, the Defense Intelligence Agency?

RUSSELL TICE: Intelligence officers work with one another all the time. As an analyst, you mighthave a problem. Everybody gets together. Its just common sense to find out what everybody knows,you know, come to a consensus as to what the answer is. Its sort of like a puzzle, you know, chunks ofthe puzzle. And maybe you have a few chunks as a SIGINT officer, and the C.I.A. has a few chunks intheir arena and D.I.A. has a few elements of it, and everybody gets together and does a little mind meldto try to figure out whats going on. So its not unusual for the intelligence community to shareinformation. But when were talking about information on the American public, which is a violation ofthe FISA law, then I think its even something more to be concerned about.

AMY GOODMAN: Were you ever asked to engage in this?

RUSSELL TICE: No, no, and if I did so, I did so unwittingly, which I have a feeling would be the

case for many of the people involved in this. More than likely this was very closely held at the upperechelons at N.S.A., and mainly because these people knewGeneral Hayden, Bill Black, and probablythe new one, Keith Alexander, they all knew this was illegal. So, you know, they kept it from thepopulace of N.S.A., because every N.S.A. officer certainly knows this is illegal.

AMY GOODMAN: What do you mean if you did so, you did so unwittingly?

RUSSELL TICE: Well, there are certain elements of the aspects of what is done where there arefunctionaries or technicians or analysts that are given information, and you just process thatinformation. You dont necessarily know the nitty gritty as to where the information came from or the


10/14

its called compartmentalization. Its ironic, but you could be working on programs, and the veryperson sitting next to you is not cleared for the programs youre working on, and theyre working ontheir own programs, and each person knows to keep their nose out of the other persons business,because everythings compartmentalized, and youre only allowed to work on what you have a need toknow to work on.

AMY GOODMAN: What about the telecoms, the telecommunications corporations working with the

Bush administration to open up a back door to eavesdropping, to wiretapping?RUSSELL TICE:If that was done and, you know, I use a big if here, and, remember, I canttell you what I know of how N.S.A. does its business, but I can use the wiggle words like if andscenarios that dont incorporate specifics, but nonetheless, if U.S. gateways and junction points inthe United States were used to siphon off information, I would think that the corporate executives ofthese companies need to be held accountable, as well, because they would certainly also know thatwhat theyre doing is wrong and illegal. And if they have some sort of court order or some sort of paperor something signed from some government official, Congress needs to look at those papers and look atthe bottom line and see whose signature is there. And these corporations know that this is illegal, aswell. So everyone needs to be held accountable in this mess.

AMY GOODMAN: When you come on board at these intelligence agencies, as at the NationalSecurity Agency, what are you told? I mean, were you aware of the Church hearings in the 1970s thatwent into the illegal spying on monitoring, of surveilling, of wiretapping of American citizens?

RUSSELL TICE: Well, thats something thats really not drummed in your head. Thats more of ahistory lesson, I think. And the reasoning, ultimately, for the FISA laws and for whats called USSID18, which is sort of the SIGINTers bible of how they conduct their business, but the law itself isdrilled into your head, as well as the tenets of USSID 18, of which the number one commandment isThou shalt not spy on Americans.

AMY GOODMAN: Were talking to Russell Tice, former intelligence agent with the NationalSecurity Agency, worked at the N.S.A. up until May of 2005. What is data mining?

RUSSELL TICE: Data mining is a means by which youyou have information, and you go searchingfor all associated elements of that information in whatever sort of data banks or databases that you puttogether with information. So if you have a phone number and you want to associate it with, say, aterrorist or something, and you want to associate it with, you know, Who is this terrorist talking to?you start doing data on what sort of information or what sort of numbers does that person call or thefrequency of time, that sort of thing. And you start basically putting together a bubble chart of, youknow, where everybody is.

Lord help you if youve got a wrong phone call from one of these guys, a terrorist overseas orsomething, and youre American. Youre liable to have the F.B.I. camping out your doorstep,apparently, from everything thats going on. But its basically a way of searching all of the data thatexists, and thats things like credit card records and drivers license, anything that you can get your

hands on and try to associate it with some activity. I think if we were doing that overseas with knowninformation, it would be a good thing if were pinning them down. But ultimately, when were usingthat onifwere using that with U.S. databases, then ultimately, once again, the American people aretheir civil rights are being violated.

AMY GOODMAN: Do you expect you are being monitored, surveilled, wiretapped right now?

RUSSELL TICE: Yes, I do. As a matter of fact, inyou know, sometimes you just dont know. Andbeing, you knowwhat theyve basically accused me of, I cant just walk around thinking thateverybody is looking at my heels and are following me around. But in one scenario I turned the tables


11/14

on someone I thought was following me, and he ducked into a convenience store, and I just walkeddown thereand I saw him out of my peripheral visionand I basically walked down to where heducked into and in the store, I walked up behind him. He was buying a cup of coffee, and he had a onhis hip and his F.B.I. badge. I dont think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out what was going onthere.

AMY GOODMAN: The National Security Agency, or I should say the United Nations Security

Council, there was a scandal a year or two ago about the monitoring of the diplomats there. It was inthe lead up to the invasion, the U.S. wanting to know and put pressure on these Security Councilambassadors to know what they were saying before any kind of vote. What is the difference betweenthat kind of monitoring and the monitoring of American citizens?

RUSSELL TICE: Well, if the monitoring was done against foreigners and the monitoring was doneoverseas, as far as I know, thats perfectly legal. Its just a matter of who you are monitoring and whereyoure doing the monitoring. If its done at home and theyre Americans, then you have a differentscenario.

And were all trained that, you know, hands off. If you inadvertently run across something like that inthe conduct of what youre doing, you immediately let someone know; if its involved in something

being recorded, its immediately erased. So, you know, its something that we all know you just dontdo. Overseas, okay; here at home, not so okay.

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to play for you the clip that we ran of President Bush earlier and getyour response. This is President Bush on Sunday.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: I can say that if somebody from al-Qaeda is calling you, wedlike to know why. In the meantime, this program is conscious of peoples civil liberties, as am I. This isa limited program designed to prevent attacks on the United States of America. And I repeat: limited.And its limited to calls from outside the United States to calls within the United States. But, they areof known numbers of known al Qaeda members or affiliates. And I think most Americans understandthe need to find out what the enemy is thinking. And thats what we are doing. Were at war with abunch of cold-blooded killers who will kill on a moments notice. And I have a responsibility,

obviously, to act within the law, which I am doing. Its a program has been reviewed constantly byJustice Department officials, a program to which the Congress has been briefed, and a program that isin my judgment necessary to win this war and to protect the American people.

AMY GOODMAN: President Bush. Russell Tice, youre with the National Security Agency, or youwere until May 2005. If al-Qaedas calling, the U.S. government wants to know. Your response?

RUSSELL TICE: Well, thats probably a good thing to know. But thats why we have a FISA courtand FISA laws. The FISA courtits not very difficult to get something through a FISA court. I kindaliken the FISA court to a monkey with a rubber stamp. The monkey sees a name, the monkey sees aword justification with a block of information. It cant read the block, but it just stamps affirmed onthe block, and a banana chip rolls out, and then the next paper rolls in front of the monkey. When you

have like 20,000 requests and only, I think, four were turned down, you cant look at the FISA court asanything different.

So, you have to ask yourself the question: Why would someone want to go around the FISA court insomething like this? I would think the answer could be that this thing is a lot bigger than even thePresident has been told it is, and that ultimately a vacuum cleaner approach may have been used, inwhich case you dont get names, and thats ultimately why you wouldnt go to the FISA court. And Ithink thats something Congress needs to address. They need to find out exactly how this system wasoperated and ultimately determine whether this was indeed a very focused effort or whether this was avacuum cleaner-type scenario.


12/14

AMY GOODMAN: Did you support the President, Russell Tice? Did you vote for President Bush?

RUSSELL TICE: I am a Republican. I voted for President Bush both in the last election and the firstelection where he was up for president. Ive contributed to his campaign. I get a postI mean, aChristmas card from the White House every year, I guess, because of my nominal contributions.Butso, you know, its not like, you knowI think youre going to find a lot of folks that are inthe Department of Defense and the intelligence community are apt to be on the conservative side

of the fence. But nonetheless, were all taught that you dont do something like this. And Imcertainly hoping that the President has been misled in whats going on here and that the truecrux of this problem is in the leadership of the intelligence community.

AMY GOODMAN: Youre saying in the leadership of your own agency, the National SecurityAgency?

RUSSELL TICE: Thats correct, yeah, because certainly General Alexander and General Haydenand Bill Black knew that this was illegal.

AMY GOODMAN: But they clearly had to have authorization from above, and Bush is notcontending that he did not know.

RUSSELL TICE: Well, thats true. But the question has to be asked: What did the President know?

What was the President told about this? Its justtheres just too many variables out there that wedont know yet. And, ultimately, I think Congress needs to find out those answers. If the President wasfed a bill of goods in this matter, then thats something that has to be addressed. Or if the Presidenthimself knew every aspect of whats going on, if this was some sort of vacuum cleaner deal, then it isultimately, I would think, the President himself that needs to be held responsible for whats going onhere.

AMY GOODMAN: And what do you think should happen to him?

RUSSELL TICE: Well, you know, its certainly not up to me, but Ive heard all of the talk aboutimpeachment and that sort of thing. You know, I saw our last president get impeached for whatpersonally I thought should have been something between his wife and his family, and the big guy

upstairs. Its not up to me, but if the President knew, if this was a vacuum cleaner job and the Presidentknew exactly what was going onand ultimately what were hearing now is nothing but a cover-upand a whitewashand we find that to be the case, then I think it should cause some dire consequencesfor even the President of the United States, if he indeed did know exactly what was going on and if itwas a very large-scale, you know, suck-up-everything kind of operation.

AMY GOODMAN: This investigation that the Justice Department has launchedits interesting thatAlberto Gonzales is now Attorney General of the United Statesthe latest story of The New YorkTimes: Gonzales, when he was White House Counsel, when Andrew Card, chief of staff, went toAshcroft at his hospital bedside to get authorization for this. Can he be a disinterested party ininvestigating this now, as Attorney General himself?

RUSSELL TICE: Yeah, I think that for anyone to say that the Attorney General is going to be totallyunbiased about something like this, I think thats silly. Of course, the answer is No. He cant beunbiased in this. I think that a special prosecutor or something like that may have to be involved insomething like this, otherwise were just liable to have a whitewash.

AMY GOODMAN: What do you think of the term police state?

RUSSELL TICE: Well, anytime where you have a situation where U.S. citizens are being arrested andthrown in jail with the key being thrown away, you know, potentially being sent overseas to betortured, U.S. citizens being spied on, you know, and it doesnt even go to the court that deals withthese secret things, you know, I mean, think about it, you could have potentially somebody getting the


13/14

wrong phone call from a terrorist and having him spirited away to some back-alley country to get therubber hose treatment and who knows what else. I think that would kind of qualify as a police state, inmy judgment.

I certainly hope that Congress or somebody sort of does something about this, because, you know, forAmericans just to say, Oh, well, we have to do this because, you know, because of terrorism, youknow, its the same argument that we used with communism years ago: take away your civil liberties,

but use some threat thats, you know, been out there for a long time.Terrorism has been there forcertainly before 9/11 we had terrorism problems, and I have a feelingits going to be around for quite some time after whatever we deem is a victory in what were doingnow in the Middle East. But, you know, its just something that has to be addressed. We just cantcontinue to see our civil liberties degraded. Ultimately, as Ben Franklin, I think, had said, you know,those who would give up their essential liberties for a little freedom deserve neither liberty or freedom,and I tend to agree with Ben Franklin.

AMY GOODMAN: And your colleagues at the N.S.A. right now, their feelings, the National SecurityAgency?

RUSSELL TICE: Boy, I think most folks at N.S.A. right now are just running scared. They have the

security office hanging over their head, which has always been a bunch of vicious folks, and nowtheyve got, you know, this potential witch hunt going on with the Attorney General. People in theintelligence community are afraid. They know that you cant come forward. You have no protections asa whistleblower. These things need to be addressed.

AMY GOODMAN: What do you mean you have no protection?

RUSSELL TICE: Well, like I said before, as a whistleblower, youre not protected by thewhistleblower laws that are out there. The intelligence community is exempt from the whistleblowerprotection laws.

AMY GOODMAN: So why are you doing it?

RUSSELL TICE: Well, ultimately, I dont have to be afraid of losing my job, because I have already

lost my job, so thats one reason. The other reason is because I made an oath when I became anintelligence officer that I would protect the United States Constitution, not a president, not someclassification, you know, for whatever, that ultimately Im responsible to protect the Constitution of theUnited States. And I think thats the same oath the President takes, for the most part.

So, something likeimagine if somethingif we were like, I dont know, taking Americans andassassinating them for suspicions of suspicions of terrorism, and then we just put some classification onit and said, Well, this is super top secret, so no one can say anything about that. Well, at what point doyou draw the line and say enough is enough. We have to say something here.

AMY GOODMAN: What was your classification? How high up was your clearance?

RUSSELL TICE: Well, clearances go up to the top secret level. But once you get to the top secretlevel, there are many caveats and many programs and things that can happen beyond that point. Ispecialized in whats known as black world operations and programs that are very closely held, thingsthat happen in operations and programs in the intelligence community that are closely held, and for themost part these programs are very beneficial to ultimately getting information and protecting theAmerican people. But in some cases, I think, classification levels at these specialwe call them specialaccess programs, SAPscould be used to mask, basically, criminal wrongdoing. So I think thatssomething ultimately Congress needs to address, as well, because from what I can see, there is not awhole lot of oversight when it comes to some of these deep black programs.


14/14

AMY GOODMAN: Russell Tice, did you know anyone within the N.S.A. who refused to spy onAmericans, who refused to follow orders?

RUSSELL TICE: No. No, I do not. As far asof course, Im not witting of anyone that was told theywill spy on an American. So, ultimately, when this was going on, I have a feeling it was closely held atsome of the upper echelon levels. And youve got to understand, I was a worker bee. I was a guy thatwrote the reports and did the analysis work andyou know, the detail guy. At some point, your reports

have to get sent up up the line and then, you know, the management takes action at some point oranother, but at my level, no, I was not involved in this.

AMY GOODMAN: Has Congress responded to your letter offering to testify as a former employee ofthe National Security Agency?

RUSSELL TICE: Not yet. Of course, the holidaysyou know, we just had the holidays here, soeverybody is out of town. I cant condemn Congress too much yet, because I faxed it out on, I dobelieve, the 18th of December, and were just getting into the new year.

AMY GOODMAN: And who did you send it to?

RUSSELL TICE:I sent it to the chairs of the Senate Intelligence Committee and the HouseIntelligence Committee, the SSCI and the HPSCI.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to thank you very much for being with us. Is there anything else thatyou would like to add?

RUSSELL TICE: Well, I cant think of a whole lot, except ultimately I think the American peopleneed to be concerned about allegations that the intelligence community is spying on Americans. Youknow, one of my fears is that this would cause, just going into the N.S.A. and just tearing the place upand making the good work thats being done at the N.S.A. ineffective, because the N.S.A. is veryimportant to this countrys security. And I certainly hope that some bad apples, even if these badapples were at the top of N.S.A., dont ultimately destroy the capabilities of N.S.A.s ability to doa good job protecting the American people.

AMY GOODMAN: Russell Tice, former intelligence agent with the National Security Agency and the

Defense Intelligence Agency, worked for the N.S.A. up until May of last year. Thanks for joining us.

RUSSELL TICE: Thank you.

tice: is the nsa conducting electronic warfare on americans?

Documents