STATE LIBRARY OF SOUTH AUSTRALIA

J. D. SOMERVILLE ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION

OH 619/28

Full transcript of an interview with

MARK MATTISON-SHUPNICK

on 13 February 1998

by Rob Linn

Recording available on CD

Access for research: Unrestricted

Right to photocopy: Copies may be made for research and study

Right to quote or publish: Publication only with written permission from the State Library

2

OH 619/28 MARK MATTISON-SHUPNICK

NOTES TO THE TRANSCRIPT

This transcript was donated to the State Library. It was not created by the J.D. Somerville Oral History Collection and does not necessarily conform to the Somerville Collection's policies for transcription.

Readers of this oral history transcript should bear in mind that it is a record of the spoken word and reflects the informal, conversational style that is inherent in such historical sources. The State Library is not responsible for the factual accuracy of the interview, nor for the views expressed therein. As with any historical source, these are for the reader to judge.

This transcript had not been proofread prior to donation to the State Library and has not yet been proofread since. Researchers are cautioned not to accept the spelling of proper names and unusual words and can expect to find typographical errors as well.

3

TAPE 1 - SIDE A SOLA HISTORY. Interview with Mark Madison Shupnick on 13th February, 1998. Interviewer: Rob Linn. Mark, could you give me a bit of your personal background, please?

MS: I became an optician by being a lab technician in an ophthalmic

dispensing programme, and that was a two year Associates in Arts Degree

from a community college in New York, where I was hired as the lab technician.

I was hired out of college. My Father was a maintenance man - a carpenter - in

the school. And I had grown up in the bowels of that two year college, so it

was quite familiar to me.

I took a job with this new department. Didn't know anything about it, other than

they hired me - I was mechanical. I could get things done in the school

because I knew people, and I had minored in physics in college. I was a

biology major. So science was an interest. Maths was an interest.

My job was to help students with the materials they needed for the ophthalmic

dispensing laboratories, and this was learning how to make a pair of eye

glasses.

Just going back a bit. You a native of New York then?

MS: That's right. A native of New York. Was born in New York. And lived in

New York until I was 28. That's a world record, isn't it?

MS: (Laughter) What? 28 years in New York and survive? That's why I left.

It was called survival.

And I just fell in love with this, as a profession. The thought of making glasses

- I always described it as being able to get dirty and be smart at the same time.

So you could be covered in stuff up to your elbows but you had a tangible

product, and that product made people happy. It allowed them to see.

4

And it combined a variety of stimulating intellect - at least I thought - and so I

did this. And I worked there as this lab technician for only about six months. I

got drafted. This was just after - this was 1968 - just after the Tet offensive.

I went in the Army of February '69. Went to basic training, and then was made

an optician in the Army, and so worked in an optometry clinic at Fort Gordon in

Augusta, Georgia. And did that for about seven months, when I got orders to

rotate to Okinawa. To go to the optical surfacing laboratory - fabricating

laboratory - for the US Army, and they supplied eye glasses to all of the

Services. The Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines in Vietnam and all through

South East Asia, Philippines and Japan.

I stayed overseas for two years. I was having a lot of fun and so it was just

about two years. I spent the time in Japan. Spent time in Okinawa. And

worked in the optical laboratory. Learned a lot more, because I had never

been - I was never formally trained in opticianry. I learned it because I liked it,

and I had to do it as a job.

So you really began your career, if you like, as an optical mechanic of sorts? MS: Right. Now, that's interesting, because all the SOLA pioneers were optical mechanics.

MS: Yeah. So I was - totally on the job training. And I benefited because I

had a whole variety of people who were willing to share information, and books.

I came out of the Service - I got out early from what would've been a total of

three years I was in - two and a half years - and came back to the States from

Okinawa and got my job back. Except this time, instead of being a lab

technician, I got a job as a lecturer. And so the things that I had learned - At the same college?

MS: Same college. Now, by law in the US when you get drafted, you have to

be allowed to come back to your job, and so I did that, and then quickly

became a lecturer and taught both day and evening, and taught the

mechanical side of opticianry - the actual fabrication of eye glasses. Surfacing

as well as finishing. And continued to do that. Changed my job as lecturer.

5

Became a full time instructor. And at that same time had seen another part of

the world and decided I didn't want to live in New York any more. And began

to look for a job.

In 1975 we got announcement that a new community college in California were

starting an opticianry programme - ophthalmic dispensing - and I applied for the

job. Flew out, interviewed, was offered the job at the interview, accepted the

job at the interview, came home and packed. And that was in August of '75.

Started in September. Packed all my stuff in a truck, drove from New York to

California, and started in September.

It wasn't a great situation. There was a community college - a very small one.

There were only 1400 students - full time students. It was brand new, and the

local opticians at one point turned me into the Board of Opticianry for

dispensing eye glasses without a licence when I let my students make glasses

for themselves and their family. So realising that I really didn't have the local

support that I thought I needed -

Whatever gave you that idea? (Laughter in voice)

MS: - for a teaching programme. I had been helping a school in the Bay area

to also develop an opticianry programme, and they got their programme

approved by the State to start it, and I said to them that if you get approved and

you're looking for an instructor, I would apply. When they got approved, I

applied. So in that following Summer, after being only one year in southern

California, left and moved to Redwood City, south of San Francisco, to teach at

Canada College. (Spelt like Canada with the squiggle over the 'n'.) So I began

the programme there. So that was in September of '76.

I built that programme to about 100 students, day and evening. Again, a two

year associate - an AS Degree - an associate in Science Degree - in

ophthalmic dispensing.

I, in the first year, wrote a number of grant requests on the Federal

Government and, in fact, got them funded, and brought another instructor from

New York out - Irwin Vogel - and we built that programme. And for the second

year, we put in a big contact lens laboratory, and fit contact lenses. We fit

spectacles.

I had a local advisory group made up of the prominent businesses, and they

were very supportive. And we quickly, in the San Franciso bay area, changed

6

the salaries of opticians. Raised the level. We would draw between two and

three hundred opticians for every one of the update seminars in the evenings

that we would give. And so we became a real fixture in the community. I

stayed at Canada for five years, as the programme head.

During that time, in 1977, I got a phone call from - actually it was late '76 - a

man named Eddy Rausch, and Eddy Rausch was a guy that I had taught with

at New York - New York Community College. Ed was also a salesman for Art

Craft, which was a frame manufacturer, and he was an independent rep selling

lenses for a company called SOLA. Right. Oh, yeah, I know who you mean. MS: Uncle Eddy. Uncle Eddy?

MS: Not my uncle, but Uncle Eddy. So he calls, and he said, 'How you doing?

Listen, can you do me a favour. This company, whose lenses I sell, has just

hired a new guy who doesn't know anything about the optical business. Can

you show him around and introduce him to some of the laboratories, and take

him on a tour?' And I said, 'Sure. What's his name?' 'His name is Bernie

Friewald(?)'. And I said, 'OK, and where does he -?' 'He lives in San

Francisco'. 'OK'.

And so I think Ed called Bernie, Bernie called me. We met one morning, and I

was going to take him to the east bay to a number of laboratories of people that

I knew - friends - and show him around. So Bernie bought me breakfast. One

of the few times he's actually paid for a meal. So Bernie treated me to

breakfast. Took me to McDonalds. I should've recognised what that was right

then and there. It led to a - there's a history in and of itself of the art of avoiding

to pay for a meal. So, that's another story.

But anyhow, I met Bernie and I took him on this tour. So he met some people.

Showed him around laboratories. Explained the process of making a pair of

glasses. And at that time he was with SOLA, and SOLA was in Sunnyvale,

California.

He said, 'You know if I had more questions or other things, can I call you for

explanation? Would you be interested in helping explain things to some of the

people at SOLA?' And I said, 'Sure'.

7

And that was interesting, and exciting, because it was another part of the

business. And I was always attached to the businesses because I was always

looking for donations to the programme. I needed frames. I needed lenses.

We didn't have big budgets in the schools and I was always looking for support.

Bernie ended up calling me again, and I ended up going to visit at SOLA.

This time you paid. (Laughter in voice)

MS: This time I went to Sunnyvale. (Yeah, that was the history.) And I met, at

that time, Tom Balch and Dick Kapash and Edith - I don't remember her

maiden name. Edith Ray, yeah. And Bernie.

Saw a bit of what SOLA was doing. And they were making plano lenses for

sun-glasses, and they were making some semi finished single vision lenses.

They were going to be a, you know, plastic lens manufacturer in the (couldn't

decipher word). And of course, at this point, glass lenses were still the primary

lens material. A number of years earlier the FDA had created a requirement for

drop ball testing of all lenses, and that just made it more complicated to make a

pair of glass lenses. And so plastic was a really interesting opportunity but

there wasn't any real expertise - and equipment and machinery and process.

And the lenses were not particularly consistent.

Mark, it's interesting you raised that FDA move. I have a strong suspicion that's what brought SOLA into the States in the first place.

MS: Yeah. Well, I think the FDA's move created the big opportunity for

replacement of glass with plastic. And therefore it created the bigger potential

market available to SOLA in the US, and why ultimately it became the tail

wagging the dog. Yeah.

MS: So that move by the FDA also changed the history completely in the US

of the kind of materials that would be used for lenses. And it was the first gong

to sound the, you know, near death of glass.

I visited SOLA - you know, just a few times. At the same time, I had been

helping some other companies with projects. So in my involvement with the

school and with the local businesses, where I was supplying opticians to them

8

out of the programme - and we also had a work programme within the second

year of the students education where they had to actually work in the field. OK.

MS: So as part of their clinical work, as being an optician, they had to actually

work in a local business. So I had a programme where they worked in a local

business at no pay. I assume that they were going to cost this person

something at some point. So no pay but they got credit for it. Yeah.

MS: I also wanted my folks to have real world experience so that they didn't go

into a business, and then have somebody say, 'I really needed to train them

when they got out of school'. I didn't want that. I wanted them hireable and

immediately able to go to work and be more educated than any other optician.

So that worked out pretty well.

In turn, I got very involved then with placing people at some of the local

manufacturers and businesses where they did apprenticeships, and other

things. So one of them was Multi Optics, which was the forerunner to (sounds

like, Ver-a-lux) corporation. Multi Optics was the Esilor(?) company set up in

Foster City to introduce (sounds like, Ver-a-lux) to the US. And this was in the

middle 70's. And so I did a project for them as a consultant for one of their

measuring devices for lenses.

At the same time I got involved with (sounds like, Roden-stock) for the

development of an automated lens meter. A device that would automatically

read the prescription in a pair of glasses.

Now, (sounds like, Roden-stock) were making lenses then? MS: No. They were only an instrument manufacturer in the US at that time.

Now since that time, they've become primarily frame makers, haven't they?

MS: They were always instrument, lens and frame makers. And this was a

seperate venture. Roden-stock(?) instruments located in (sounds like, Fair-ox)

Avenue, off the freeway -

9

OK. I'm with you. MS: And it was on my way down to Sunnyvale.

Really?

MS: Yeah. It was very interesting. So I was there, working on a project with

them for this lens meter with a PhD named Tom (sounds like, Corn-sweet).

And I'm on the lecture circuit also.

So I'm now spending a lot of time, not just teaching, but I'm working with

companies on new products where I'm translating their technical manual from

the engineering language and the manufacturing side into the language of the

laboratory. And so it's providing to me a lot of excitement. And so, as these

kinds of situations come up I'm encouraging them.

So I begin to do some projects for Bernie in understanding - Bernie wanted to

prove that SOLA's lens size was more effective than competitors' lens size

because that's what he had. He had a 68 mm blank -

Yeah, I know the story.

MS: And everybody else had 70 mm blanks - 65's and 70's - and we had a 68

because of the way we manufactured the lenses. Not that there was any

reason for it.

The moulds were the wrong size. (Laughter in voice)

MS: So the result was, 'How do we make it into laminate?' Right?

So what we went away to prove was that it was more efficient to use one size

than two. And that the combination of those two, and the way in which they

were used, cost the laboratory more. That the larger lens blank caused more

problems in the lab, and the 68 was perfectly sized for the size of frames - the

size of people - and the technology of the instrumentation used to grind them.

And so I helped develop the beginnings of that story called the 68 mm story. Oh, great.

MS: And in that became, again for me, the real fun of - I loved to teach and I

liked being in front of a group of students and carrying them forward, but the

real excitement was coming from my outside work.

10

So I continued to do these projects with SOLA. I was doing something with

Roden-stock(?), and the (sounds like, Velox) thing - the Multi Optics thing -

had been finished, and I didn't have any time.

And then Bernie asked me - this is probably late '78 and through '79 - how

would I like to be a consultant to SOLA on a regular basis? 'What does that

mean?' 'Well, I'd like you to work for me one day a week'. So I looked at my

teaching schedule and I thought that that was probably OK. And so I was put

on retainer by SOLA to work one day a week. I've said this before, working

one day a week for Bernie was a full time job. (Laughter)

I lasted in that for - I don't know. Fourteen months. Sixteen months. Eighteen

months. Something like that. And at that point, had been working on the 68

story. The release of a variety of other new products. The (sounds like,

stuffer) on the decentered ear(?) line, which is the executive style lens, but it

was unique to SOLA. It was the only decentered lens - bifocal - of this style.

At that point, was it?

MS: Yeah. It was always decentered. And what was really terrific was I

believed, and got wrapped up, in SOLA's ability to do things differently, and to

be innovative and to be creative. It was good. I was very naive also at the time

(Laughter in voice) and so was the industry. And so, you know, along we went

in doing these stories. And I was having a lot of fun.

In 1977, SOLA broke ground up here in Petaluma and decided to move the

facility. I remember at that point I had visited Sunnyvale a few times and was

getting more involved with Bernie. Got invited to the ribbon cutting up here. So

I remember being at the ribbon cutting in 1977 and meeting the folks. Herb

Funk and - and along the way I had now, at this point, met Noel Roscrow. And

those meetings were typically in a hotel room over a bottle of Scotch.

Yes, I believe that.

MS: And so I remember a number of meetings at Noel's hotel. Briefcase

open, and a bottle of Johnnie Walker, Black, standing up on the table, and

Noel's ability to quickly cut to the heart of the matter. I'm not really a drinker

and so either it didn't take much or didn't matter anyhow but the discussions

quickly figured out where we needed to go, what we needed, what was

possible, what was not possible.

11

I remember being invited, even as a consultant, to meetings with competitors. I

remember going to a meeting with Younger, and Irving Ripps(?), when SOLA

was considering Younger's progressive lens design, because Younger had a

design that was competitive in the marketplace. Even though, at that time,

SOLA was already working on its own progressive designs. Just couldn't make

them. Couldn't make the moulds. So we looked at an outside source.

So I was really a full participant even though I wasn't a full time employee. But

I also had been made to feel that I was appreciated, and there was a genuine

feeling that this was a place that I liked and wanted to be. Along the way -

Was that unusual at the time?

MS: No, I don't think so. If I was unhappy, I don't think I would've continued in

a consulting role. It certainly was a drain on me.

But in other companies, was that normal for consultants to be that appreciated?

MS: I don't know, because - unique to me. I taught opticianry for thirteen

years. Taught in New York. Then I taught in California, and then I worked for

SOLA. And that's what I've done. So I don't have and never had a perspective

of working in a consumer products company. I never had a perspective

working for any other optical company on a full time basis. The only other thing

I'd done was to teach. So I don't know. I just liked it. I liked Bernie. I liked

Dick. I liked Tom Balch. I liked the things that we were doing and we seemed

to be making an impact in the marketplace.

Other people at that time were Ted - he was the national sales manager. Herb

Funk was the Board member, and he was an interesting guy. And of course,

Noel Roscrow, each time he came around.

Was Hal McGuiness still on the Board then? MS: I don't remember him. PPG.

MS: No. I didn't see many of the Board members other than Herb. That was

not my circle. I was more Marty Kramer, and Dixie Myers, and Barry Litchfield,

12

and Tom - you know, the manufacturing crew. And Clive Goodwin. At that

time Vicky (couldn't decipher name). Vicky (couldn't decipher name). So

there are a lot of those folks that are still part of the organisation.

One of the things I did in the early days, even at Sunnyvale, was come in and

at lunch time teach about the business. So Tom and Bernie wanted the people

to have - and mostly Tom - wanted the folks to have an appreciation of what

happened to the lenses after they made them. To give them some life. Good idea.

MS: And to have the manufacturing folks understand the importance of what

they were doing. That's smart.

MS: Yeah. I thought so. And I liked that. And it combined the things that I

Iiked to do, which was in many ways teach and share knowledge with people.

So now SOLA's in Petaluma. They've got this facility that they've constructed.

We're bringing new products in. Deciding whether to make them in Australia or

make them in California. I say we because I felt like I was part of it.

Along the way I had been offered a job. May be three times. Bernie would

say, 'Why don't you come to work for SOLA?' Or Dick would say, or Tom

would say, 'Why don't you come and work for SOLA?' And over the years I

didn't have the guts to leave teaching. I said, 'No. I appreciate it. Still haven't

achieved what I want to achieve teaching'.

About my fourth year of teaching - I was now spending a fair amount of time at

SOLA. In fact it was so much that it was getting in the way of teaching. So I

said to Bernie, 'I can't do this any more. I'll stay friends with you guys. You

know, if you have a question, call me. I can't work a day a week. I can't travel

to Petaluma. It's too much. And your projects are full time projects'. So I get,

'Well, why don't you come and work full time?' 'No, I can't do that'. So I went

back to teaching. That's the only thing I did, was teach. But I stayed friends

with these guys.

And then they were doing something and - oh, it was (sounds like, cast RX),

and this was being worked on in the Birmingham laboratory. And Bernie was

saying, 'You know, this is really going to change the industry and we really

need you for this'.

13

So Pilkingtons are on board by then?

MS: Yeah. 'Come back to SOLA'. So this late '79 - '80. 1980. I'm thinking

about it, and I said, 'No, I don't think so'. And I had a number of conversations

with my wife. At this point I'm also, in teaching, beginning to lose my patience

with students. Just real easy to snap at them.

I understand. MS: Now, I recognised that. You teach?

I did.

MS: So I began to recognise that in me, and I began to feel that I shouldn't

teach. It's not fair - to the student. So the two things just happened at the right

time.

And so I was having dinner up here one night with Dick and - oh, no. I was

having lunch. I came up, and we were talking about something, and I had

lunch with Dick, Tom Balch and Bernie.

Not at (sounds like, Vol-pees)?

MS: Not at (sounds like, Vol-pees), no.

Where were we? We were in a booth. I think we were in - it was like a garden

restaurant. A place where Bernie always had a turkey sandwich because they

cooked fresh turkeys, and they would slice it right off.

TAPE 1 - SIDE B

MS: We were at lunch, and we were talking about this project, and I think it

was Dick who said, just turned around and said, 'So when are you going to

come to work for SOLA?' And it was a very typical question but asked a

number of times. And I said, 'Make me an offer'. And that was different. And

so, I think, Balch said, 'Really?' And I said, 'Yeah. I'm ready'.

14

So it wasn't, you know, but a few days and - this was in either June or July of

'81 at this point - and it was done. It was in June, because I accepted, went to

Canada College, actually called Irwin who was my partner there. We had a

number of part time teachers but Irwin was my other full time teacher. And I

said, 'I'm going to leave. I'm going to work for SOLA'.

It was sort of leaving them in the lurch. It was just about the end of the

semester. It was the very beginning of June, I think. So we now had the

Summer to organise for the Fall and make sure they had enough instructors

and, you know, everything wouldn't fall apart at the school. But, clearly, it was

the right time for me to make a move.

I was living on the coast, south of San Francisco. I was now going to work in

Petaluma, which was 53 miles, one way. Figured, 'Oh, I'll move'.

So my official start date with SOLA as a full time employee was August 1st of

1981. But I had now participated in SOLA establishment, or establishing itself

in the US, just at the time that Bernie was hired. So for whatever date that is -

1977. MS: So that's my start date with SOLA, in reality, for some participation in its

history.

So come August 1st, 1981, I'm on board at SOLA full time. And I'm driving

from the Half Moon Bay area every day - 53 miles. It quickly got old.

(Laughter) And so we decided that we would move up here.

Now, my wife at the time was teaching at (sounds like, Foothill) College, and

she's a orientation mobility instructor. She teaches the blind and handicapped.

So she had a programme for disabled students at Foothill(?)College - another

community college - but that was further down the peninsula, south of

Redwood City. So we decided to move to Petaluma and she would quit her job

and stay home now for a period of time with our first child. And so that's what

we did. We looked for a house, and it was the worst time to sell or buy a

house. Interest rates were, you know, 15/16% - 17%.

And the market was poor.

MS: The market was poor, and so I ended up buying a house up here from

someone who would accept part of the mortgage, and I ended up also being

the Bank on the sale of my house. Luckily, both the person I bought the house

15

from, and the person I sold my house to, were reasonable people, and it

worked. So January of 1982, Eileen(?) and I moved to Petaluma.

Right. MS: So we've been living in Petaluma ever since.

And from that point on, I was a person right at the centre of every product

development, every technical and/or marketing or technical marketing story,

and the evolution of SOLA as a lens supplier in the US. In those early days we

were involved in everything. Everything from improving the quality to training

the folks on the line. To creating the marketing story. To doing the advertising.

To going out in the field and working in the lab and training our customers.

Was that pretty satisfying?

MS: It was fulfilling. It answered to all kinds of things from me in liking to be

both mechanical and intellectual, at the same time.

It allowed me to travel also. I would do things like - I would visit customers and

tell them about product. I would go test product, while we were developing it, in

our customers labs. One of our big customers at the time was Benson(?)

Optical, out at Minneapolis. Their test laboratory, however, wasn't in

Minneapolis. It was two and a half hours away. Half way between Minneapolis

and Fargo, North Dakota. In a little tiny town called Staples, Minnesota. And

Ken Richardson, who was the lab manager, was the new products guy for

Benson(?). So before they accepted any lens it had to be tested and it went to

the Staples lab. And so I would go to Staples. I used to stay in the Valu Motel.

It was $21 a night.

I thought you said Valium Motel, for a moment. (Laughter)

MS: It was about that, too. Yeah, the Valu Motel. It was $21 a night and the

only phone was at the front desk. (Laughter in voice) So I had to make my

phone calls home from the front desk. Or if I was being called, they had to

come and get me from my room. So it was pretty funny. But I would go there

and spend a week, or two weeks at a time, testing lenses and working through

the process with Ken Richardson. It was wonderful. Had a great time.

Like an Australian country pub, Mark.

16

MS: That's absolutely - yes.

What else? But I would go around the country for SOLA to various customers

and talk product. At the trade shows, we would do the presentations. And a

year after I got hired, John Potocny got hired. And we were always talking to

customers. Always telling our story. And the key was, here's where we were,

here's where we were going, and here's what new products - we're going to

change our business, and here's why SOLA's different.

So it quickly - from one year to the next it was, what are we going to do that's

new? And that was different from everybody else.

We had refined the 68 story. We had now a larger lens called 76. And we

said, 'Two lenses satisfies all your needs' - the 68/76 story - and in fact I still

have slides - presentation slides - from that. Because, to me, that was a

milestone for SOLA. And that was our entry into the laboratory - the

wholesaler.

Would any of those, do you think, be good illustrations in the book? MS: Yeah. Because I think what they'll do is, they'll trigger great memories for

people.

That sounds tremendous.

MS: Yeah. And it culminated - the 68/76 story - in something called the true

cost of a pair of lenses, in the lab. And what I did was, I dimensionalised what

each of these benefits of being 68 mm, and the geometry that we created, to

what the savings was for the lab. The great part was that the lab didn't agree

with everything. But the fact that they agreed with some of it, always said that

we were cheaper in true cost than their competitor. So they could afford to pay

us more up front. And so we had a lot of fun with that. That was great.

So that was our claim to fame in those early years, was (1) we were a plastic

lens supplier. We had this unique product line - 68/76 - and we also would take

on as customers those new laboratories that the other guys wouldn't open.

The business was very protective of each other.

The old business, you mean?

17

MS: Yeah, the existing business in the marketplace. So (sounds like, Sila)

would not open some accounts because the people that they were selling to

said, 'We don't want you to open them'. But SOLA had nothing to lose. In

fact, the thing we most wanted was those customers. And so we would open

them. We would provide technical assistance. I was the tech service person.

And so we provided training on the phone, and we would travel to help them fix

their problems. Our lenses were at times better than others, and at times not

the best, but because we were willing to listen and fix the problems - and Tom

Balch was a great one for fixing issues - the customer began to believe that

they could rely on us.

We were pretty unsophisticated in a lot of areas. Like, inventory control.

Manufacturing capacity - having sufficient capacity. So we'd end up in a

situation where - and we still do it today - where we just didn't build enough

product, or couldn't build it fast enough. Or just got it so right that we couldn't

do enough.

That sounds like the story the world over at the time though. MS: In plastic?

Yeah.

MS: In part that was. But at this time also, the marketplace is coming into

over-capacity in plastic because everybody thought it was going to be a great

opportunity.

Oh, I see what you're saying.

MS: Then we really had to differentiate ourselves because, you know, people

had lots of plant capacity and they could sell lots of lenses.

That's early 1978 then? February/March 1978, there was this great trouble in the States with a highly competitive situation. MS: That's right. So what was going on in R & D at that time that was really very special?

(Tape restarted)

18

I was asking about what type of progress was going on in R & D at that time that you were also involved with. This is about the year of the beginning of the progressive lens story? MS: Yeah, well, in '78 already, and at this point I already knew Eric and David.

Couple of smart cookies. MS: More than smart cookies. Brilliant.

MS: These are brilliant crackers. (Laughter in voice) I think that, in part,

SOLA could not have been what it is today were it not for Eric and David.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, I couldn't agree more.

MS: And they were more than just the brilliance around a product. Because

what SOLA had in the early days was this common drive amongst its people to

be smarter in the business, and it wasn't necessarily winning on the business

side - dollar-wise -although some people were concerned about that, there was

this fun about being clever and a seriousness about being right. And a great

desire to do it in an honest and ethical way. And I think that's a fundamental to

SOLA.

I've been at SOLA now a lot of years. When people say to me, 'Who is SOLA?'

I think that people like myself have certain ideals for SOLA. I mean, if you're

interviewing me, I'm going to tell you that what SOLA means to me, and

therefore is my responsibility to embody to other employees, is an excitement

about it as a company. A belief that it can achieve and be successful and

smarter than the other companies. That we can win, and have fun at winning.

That we won't personally degrade another but that we'll win legitimately -

honestly. That this company has absolute integrity. That you as an employee

will never have to look over your shoulder at what you've done. That it always

will stand up in the marketplace. That you will have that personal integrity with

your employees and those around you. Not only your products. And that you'll

always represent yourself in your products in an honest way.

And I think that that, for me, embodies who I want SOLA to be, and allow it to

grow in that way.

To be R & D, was not R & D by itself in those early days.

19

No. It was a team.

MS: It was a team. And they did R & D, and then they participated in

manufacturing. And when manufacturing was successful, it was a function of R

& D's participation. And when R & D was successful, it was because

manufacturing was part of it. When manufacturing was not successful, then

the whole group was together trying to fix the problem, which included the R &

D folks. And Eric and David as participants were not only on the creative side

of work was coming that was new, but they get involved with the existing

problems. So that we really understood the fixes. Lot of times you think you

understand the fix. It's only a real fix if you understand it to its nit(?).

Yeah.

MS: And so they provide that extraordinary level of intellect to understand to

the nit. And I think that's really special.

What people have to recognise when they get involved with SOLA is that what

goes out the door is the best it can be. And one individual can't do that.

No, it's impossible.

MS: So we will rewrite something, as many times as it needs to be rewritten.

To newer people that is often taken personally. 'It's just not good enough'.

'Don't you like the way I write?' 'It's nothing to do with your writing. Does it

say what it needs to say? Does it say it the best way it possibly can?' And so

we'll go back over it and over it. And what we try to have our people learn and

accept is that the changes are not personal. They're being offered to make

their document the best it can be.

Actually that's very understandable to a writer, Mark, because I can't function without an editor. And I think any writer that thinks he or she can is a fool - without being too crude to them. You need a person like an editor. You can't say everything the best way yourself. No matter how good a writer you are. Somebody provides the flow - the context. And it's a bit like that, isn't it? MS: Yep. Sure is.

20

I also think that that's the way in which we approach products. You know, we

just have to keep at it until we get it to the best we can make it. It's very

complicated today.

But that means still a strong team approach even if it's not a multi team thing. MS: That's right, yeah.

Well, let's just go back chronologically, so we're probably looking towards the end of the 1970's/early 80's now, and there are projects like the progressive lens thing under way with Eric and David.

MS: Eric and David, and Kevin O'Connor. And they were trying to just make

the moulds. And that's our problem. (Laughter in voice) And we're buying

time on a big shared computer data base, and these guys are doing their work

on radio share computers. Tandy. MS: Tandy. TRS - trash 80's. TRS 80's. I remember those.

MS: Well, that's what they designed computers on, and then they bought time

share or time or - it was some shared system at the time, that you could dial

into. Yeah.

MS: For, you know, more computing power than the radio share computers

could provide. In fact, I still have some of those old documents from those late

70's - early 80's - on progressives from Eric and David that I've saved along the

way.

And that was a fascinating time because we were getting into an area where

we had no participation, and we had almost no knowledge. We had lots of

ideas but no knowledge. And our major competitor today was a major

competitor then - although there were a lot of other plastic lens manufacturers

then - (sounds like, Sila), had progressives in the market. In fact, there were

two. They had one, and their sister company, Multi Optics, had another -

21

(sounds like, Vir-a-lux). So in the early 80's it was time for us to continue to try

and develop that.

Now, along the way, we spent most of our time becoming a primary source

supplier. We wanted to be your primary lens supplier laboratory. And to do

that we needed to proliferate the lens designs that we had. And so we

embarked on a programme to add - every year we added additional lens

diameters. In particular, lens styles or new lens styles. Remember we didn't

have a progressive until 1985. So that whole time in the early 80's was to

proliferate our lens designs, and at that time also, most lenses were sold

uncoated - without scratch resistant coatings. In fact, many in the SOLA group,

on a world-wide basis, said that plastic is good enough. Has got no scratch

resistant. It doesn't need it.

Well, we certainly resisted it long enough, and other people began to -

Armalite(?) - began to make inroads into offering (sounds like, Are-a-lex) as a

scratch resistant coating. It became a hot item. We were behind. We needed

to catch up. So we spent our time embarking on setting up a coating facility.

So we looked at, shall we buy coating equipment from Japan? It was pretty

expensive. And, no, I think we can develop it ourselves. And we ended up

with a trailer, and one side of the warehouse. And in it was this experimental

coating machine. And we began to coat lenses.

We were an absolute failure at first. We built a product, thought it did what it

needed to do, launched it in the marketplace, and it failed immediately. It

actually cracked on the surface of the lens after processing. It's called crazing.

Yeah, I know what that is. In pottery -

MS: Yeah. It's like a (couldn't decipher name) glaze. Well, we did that for

spectacle lenses. It's that good.

You could've had a pop item there. (Laughter)

MS: What we learned was that we weren't considering some of the things that

we needed to consider. All of our testing was done on the semi finished blank -

the thicker blank. Well, it survived things like boiling and tinting and other

things, but when it was actually processed to the thickness of the lens that it

was going to be in the frame, it crazed.

22

Really? MS: So we recalled our product.

Now, we were a small player at that point. We didn't have a lot out there. It

was our first product. Yeah, it gave us a bit of a black eye but not really. We

learned some things, and we instituted certain tests that allowed us, at least at

that time, to be sure that what we put in the marketplace was going to survive.

Some of these tests still exist today.

Yet we're not sure any more whether we need to meet that kind of scrutiny, but

we still hold our products to that standard. Things like a three hour boil. So

you ought to be able to boil your lenses without crazing, cracking or de-

lamination for three hours. Well, no-one is going to do that in the real world.

But it certainly subjects the lens to its most severe problems.

So we have some lenses today that don't meet it but we don't have any

problems with them in the marketplace. But still our bench-mark is three hour

boil. Comes from 1984, when we did that.

And so in those early 80's all of our focus was on increasing the number of lens

styles we had, and the number of 68's and 76's in each of those styles, so that

our customers could look to SOLA for all their needs. We continued also to

proliferate our offering and our ranges in finished lenses. And we were only a

plastics manufacturer at the time.

Was there a feeling of vitality around the place?

MS: In those early days? I always felt it. But I have always been an optimist

around here, I think. Even, you know, when we had real problems.

At that time, Mark, Pilkingtons would've bought SOLA. Was there a discernible change in management style? MS: I never saw it. It was never an issue for me.

(Telephone interruption)

So you were saying, Mark, that every year you worked out where you wanted to go?

MS: Right. Every year was, what additional base curves do we need?

Because we usually had a limitation to what we could develop at each time.

23

And so we would introduce the core range of base curves for a particular

product and then come back with range extensions later. And so every year

we were extending ranges, we were adding diameters. If we had only 68, we

added the 76. And our target was to be a primary supplier. And, again, it

culminated in the true cost of a pair of glasses, and it was the 68/76 story.

And then the add-ons to that were scratch resistant coatings. And that was in

the middle 80's. And then after that the big push was in progressive lenses. It

quickly - and progressives became our major focus. Certainly if you look at our

numbers in progressives - again, there are some slides around where, at our

meetings, we would show that we forecast a certain number of VIP in the first

year, and we built capacity for this many more, and the reality is we sold three

times as many. And John has those numbers. He told me those numbers. That's quite a remarkable story.

MS: Oh, yeah. And so if you look at our progressive lens increases, and our

share of market, it is - earlier you talked about breaking SOLA up into various

segments, almost by ownership. Well, there is a SOLA that can be

characterised by its products. And I think the first year is just getting started

and becoming known as a lens supplier. And those are the unique things, like

decentered ear(?) lines.

Then there's the 68/76 era. Right? Then there's the progressive lens era.

Then 68/76 gets old, because our competitors begin to price their 70's at 68

pricing, or lower. And frame sizes begin to also get smaller, so there isn't a

need for 76's. So we make a new size called 72, because the market also

goes from the laboratory doing the whole job - the complete pair of glasses - to

the laboratory doing more uncut lenses. Right? Where the doctor, the

optician, or the optometrist, is edging themselves. And as a result, we

introduce a new size, perfectly tuned to the needs of the uncut market. And

really it's our move to get out of 68's, and now to make only two sizes - 72 and

76. And the economies of making a 72 versus a 68 are about the same.

And the technology of the lab in producing and working with a 72, they have

just as easy a time with the 72 as they do with 68. In fact, years ago when they

had problems with the larger diameter 70, that is not a problem any more.

So now we renew ourselves with the 72. And we've got a major portion of the

US business with the 72.

24

TAPE 2 - SIDE A SOLA HISTORY. Interview with Mark Madison Shupnick on 13th February, 1998. Interviewer: Rob Linn.

MS: In the early days of SOUSA looking to became a better primary supplier,

and this proliferation of product, it really set the stage for SOLA as a company

that would bring innovation and new products on a regular basis to the

business. It also allowed us to exercise what we thought was being cleverer at

marketing products and telling a story.

And again, we were lucky that the business was so unsophisticated, but yet we

weren't super sophisticated either. We were just a little ahead of the rest of the

folks.

But early on, we began to get together to talk about product strategies so that

there was complementary efforts, not only for the US but for other regions.

And so if we were developing something, that it was usable in other parts of the

world. And so if it was being developed for one part of the world it needed to

be usable in another.

Now, certainly the kind of numbers that the US generated on a regular basis

caused a lot of people to pretty much drive the products based on what the US

needed. And that continued, and it continues even today, though we make

conscious effort to build the businesses and make the products that our other

regions need.

A very, I think, interesting thing about SOLA is John Heine's participation.

Whatever you might say about John, where at times he appears intolerant, or

he is intolerant, where he's looking for an answer or he's unhappy with the work

that's been done, to give him a real sense for how to move forward. What you

can't fail to recognise is he participates at all those levels. He is an absolute

and actual participant, who knows what's going on in all of your various

meetings. He is absolutely in touch with the business on a whole variety of

levels.

And I think it's a very major part of SOLA's success, is that he has a variety of

visions. He listens. He's open to thinking outside the box. And he participates

25

in meetings and he knows what's going on. So he is a regular participant, for

example, in the A-teams and product strategy meetings. He's a regular

participant in the budget reviews for every region, and he gets down to - and

sometimes, you know, at fault - the real detail. But at other times what it really

shows is that he knows our business. He knows our customers. He knows

what we ought to be doing in the marketplace. It allows him to really keep his

finger on the pulse of who SOLA is.

Talk to me for a minute about A-teams, please, Mark.

MS: A-teams are an outgrowth of the product strategy group, which was an

outgrowth of, originally, the Leap-frog group.

I was hoping you'd come back to this. MS: So that was 1984, I believe.

July '84, yeah.

MS: Leap-frog. And it was, 'OK folks, you think you're so smart, just show to

someone sticking their head in a black box and pressing a button and having a

pair of glasses slapped on their face, how can we be smarter about making a

pair of glasses to RX?' And that was the goal. Prescription to RX. And it

meant that we would produce the final RX for our wearers.

It really was an effort that was 100% successful. It gave us two technologies,

which we use today. One was Spectrum, which is a way of combining

materials so that we can manufacture lenses with a variety of properties using

ultraviolet cure. So all of this was a goal to make lenses to RX faster.

Well, we do make lenses faster but what we did was we adapted it to our

current product base. And that was products that we sold into the wholesale

and then the chain retail community. That's to say, we made semi finished and

finished lens products.

The other was Atom - automated thermal plastic optical moulding -ATOM. And

that culminated in polycarbonate. And polycarbonate, while our goal was to

make lenses to prescription, we got side-tracked in the development effort and

decided to make some money out of it and actually make semi finished blanks,

and we made progressives.

26

Well, funny that we decided to do that at the time, but we had also become

Lens Crafters primary progressive lens supplier. They really drove a big

portion of our business and our profitability. They fuelled the growth of our

factories. They were growing at an incredible rate and had a great future for us

as a participant, and they were interested in poly. And here we had this

development project going.

Well, it was just the right - we were lucky. It was the right timing at the right

time. And so we began to make semi finished progressives. And we were able

to hold on to the progressive lens business at Lens Crafters as a result of

having not only plastic lens designs, and at the time a compelling story, but

also - and capacity to support their growth and their needs - but also now this

alternative material - polycarbonate. (Telephone interruption)

MS: So just to reiterate. John Heine as CEO is, I think, a pretty significant

person in driving the history because he has a great influence. He's not telling

us ever what to do but his influence in keeping issues going and keeping

projects and products going, and a sense for the overall fit in the strategy, it's

multiple, and he's tuneable(?), but he has very clear ideas. And out of it comes

clear direction. And he is a participant in creating that direction.

So it's good, and it's unique, and it is really important for a successful company

to have a leader who has clear ideas, and where they want to take a company. Yeah.

MS: The product strategy group, I think, has had a lot to do with influencing

the directions for any of the individual regions. And that's been made up of the

technical marketing people from every region. And there are some particular

folks who've moved around the SOLA group who, I think, have had major

impact in SOLA's success over the years.

And they are people like Mark Tyson, originally from Australia - or Europe and

then Australia. Worked in Europe for SOLA and then back to, now, Australia in

the Asian region.

Karen(?) Roberts, has had a profound effect on moulding our ability to bring

product to market.

27

Matthew Cuthbertson, in his prior role as a new products person was

instrumental.

Eric and David, as major drivers in an absolute confidence for most of us to feel

good about the decisions we were making. What they did was, in their ability to

define things, understand things, provide really clear definition for us, gave us

the absolute confidence to take the risks that we took, and often times they

don't see themselves in that role.

No, they don't.

MS: But just by having them there, and their ability to say, 'Oh, you have to be

comfortable with that', 'You have to be careful with that, and here's why',

allowed us to do a lot of the things that we were able to do. And so there's a

very big part of SOLA's success that's wrapped up in their ability to provide that

confidence.

Bernie Friewald(?), in driving us, and having ideas, and some of them were

outlandish. And at times, just in his method, was a pain in the ass. At the

same time, we achieved things, and people gained confidence and happiness

for winning and achieving things. Some times didn't like getting the way we got

there but I certainly liked participating in the achievement.

Tom Balch, was a very important person in the overall stability of our getting

there. Tom always provided that, 'Now, let's step back', and, 'Let's really

understand what we're trying to do here', and, 'Are we all clear?', and 'Have we

chosen the right characteristics for this product?'

I didn't participate in the business side on a senior staff level until more recently

but - so Tom was always, I think, that kind of guiding light in the senior staff.

On the product strategy side, certainly we had Colin Perrett. I think the

dynamics of people, and the interplay, is what caused us to make the kinds of

decisions we made. And sometimes it was in spite of issues or in spite of

people. And we ended up making the right kinds of decisions.

And it was a good mixture because we began to include people from all of our

regions. (couldn't decipher name) from France, and (couldn't decipher name)

from Japan, and Ray Sayco(?) from Brazil. All had different perspective, and

all caused us to, at least, consider how our strategies needed to be modified so

that it worked in a variety of regions. People went off and did their own thing

after that with those products but it sure gave us the opportunity to realise that

28

we were part of a bigger self, and it gave us the opportunity to incorporate a lot

of clever ideas, from time to time. So that was, I think, a really important thing.