Talk UsInto It

Putting conversation at theheart of the public realm

Samuel Jones

Buildingeverydaydemocracy

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Talk Us Into ItPutting conversation at the heart of thepublic realm

Samuel Jones

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Contents

Acknowledgements 9

Foreword 11

Introduction 16

1. The importance of conversation 20

2. The public realm 34

3. Concerns over the public realm 42

4. An anatomy of conversation 47

5. The structures of the public realm nolonger support conversation 61

6. The public must be brought back intoconversation 69

7. Changes in the way we live 74

8. Changes in the conversations we have 81

9. Technology, community and publicconversation 89

10. Reinvigorating public conversation 93

11. Talk us into it: some starting points for discussion 105

Appendix: The long tail and conversation 123

Notes 130

Acknowledgements

Demos 9

Thanks go to Brian Waring and Scott Keiller atStarbucks and to Marie-Louise Fagan and JamesRuane of Cohn & Wolfe for making this projectpossible and for their contribution to many of thediscussions that shaped it. At Demos, thanks toEddie Gibb for setting the work up.

Also from Demos, thanks to all the interns whohelped support the project – Noel Hatch, withoutwhose dedication the event that helped shape thisresearch might never have happened, Isabel Martinand Tracey Sartin for their research support, and toall those who helped with the final event. Thanksalso to Mark Fuller for his début in seeing thepamphlet through publication and Pete Bradwell,John Craig, John Holden, Melissa Mean and SamHinton-Smith and for their insight and comments.

The event in which this research was discussedand developed would not have been possiblewithout the contributions and participation ofSimon Parker, Hannah Lownsbrough and JackStilgoe of Demos. Their insight and variedexpertise was invaluable in shaping the outcomeand thinking. Thanks also to Fiona Bruce, GerardDarby, Penny Egan and Ros Taylor whosespeeches and discussion were central to that eventand to all those who attended it at Shakespeare’sGlobe.

Particular thanks, though, to Catherine Fieschifor her time, support and guidance throughout.Her contribution to the arguments andsuggestions that this pamphlet makes has beeninvaluable.

Finally, thanks to all those with whom I havechatted about their thoughts and experiencesduring the research.

As ever, all errors and omissions remain myown.

Samuel JonesSeptember 2006

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Foreword

Brian Waring

Demos 11

It will not surprise you to hear that the placespeople go for public conversation in the twenty-first century have evolved, with spaces likecoffeehouses, pubs, post offices and evenhairdressers playing an increasingly importantrole in enabling and, on occasion, facilitatingconversation and connecting local communities.

The growth of the UK’s ‘café culture’ and use ofconversational space coincides with observationsand reports in the press that we are talking less. Asthis report shows, this is not actually the case. It’snot that we’re talking less – we are just talking indifferent ways about different things. Put simply,our conversations have become more and morefragmented and we are increasingly less likely totalk to our neighbours.

The problem that Demos highlights in thispamphlet is that while conversation is essential tothe structures of our public realm, the nature ofconversation has changed. As our conversationschange, policy-makers, thinkers on public spaceand business have a responsibility to re-visit howthe spaces around us connect with the changingways in which we have conversations and howpublic spaces can be used to facilitate and enablethe conversations that are so crucial to our publicrealm.

Starbucks believes that by working with Demoson this report, practical steps and suggestionshave been generated that could improve thequality, vibrancy and frequency of publicconversation. Knowing our neighbours by name,helping our children develop the skills to converseeffectively, and recognising the value of small talkas a means to foster community spirit andcohesion are just some of the simple, yet effectiveways that could encourage conversations and helpre-engage a wide range of people to cometogether, facilitate change and make a difference,

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12 Demos

not only to their own community but to societyas a whole.

In the UK, over a million people visit Starbucksstores every week. They may come by themselvesor to meet others, to converse and share commoninterests. Two of the most recognisable auralcharacteristics of the ‘Starbucks Experience’ arethe sounds of espresso machines and ofcustomers talking. Conversation permeates theatmosphere as much as does the coffee. It is aplace, according to the author John Simmons,that is ‘socially democratic’, where the business-man sits in the same space as the mum taking abreak from shopping, or the students gettingtogether after class.1

Providing a place and space for interaction anddialogue in communities is inherent to theculture of Starbucks, and is something we areintent on developing. We recognise we are a bigcompany with a large international presence;however, local communities are absolutely criticalto what we do and we are completely committedto them.

Foreword

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We want to ensure that every store across thecountry is unique, and provides space for thecommunities it serves and helps to bring peopletogether. After all, the coffeehouse has long sincebeen a site of discussion, debate and communityengagement with many valuable and radical ideasoriginating from meetings in coffeehouses.

Elsewhere, Starbucks, working in partnershipwith the Royal Society of Arts, has re-visited thislong-held tradition through the creation of the‘Coffeehouse Challenge’. This initiative creates aspace for dialogue in our stores and otherlocations, through which the local communitycan come and talk about and find solutions toissues that matter to them. Since its inception in2004, more than 300 Coffeehouse Challengeevents have taken place, involving over 10,000people across the country with over 20 awards ofseed funding given out for the most innovativelocal projects.

We hope that some of the suggestions in thisreport will help to ensure that individuals andcommunities are given the space and oppor-

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tunities to engage in effective public conversation.A demise in public conversation would be toogreat a loss to put into words.

Brian Waring, Marketing Director, Starbucks UK

Foreword

Demos 15

Introduction

16 Demos

Democracy isn’t solely about politeconversations in parliaments. . . . It needs tobe continually refreshed with raw passions,anger and ideals.2

Conversation has long been the cornerstone ofour society. From parliament to neighbourhoodmeetings, it is at the heart of our assumptionsabout the public realm. There is an intrinsic linkbetween conversation, our notion of the publicsphere and the quality of democracy. However,changes within society have weakened thebinding force that it can provide. At the sametime a series of crises, from the perceived declineof standards of social behaviour to concerns over

security, has dominated the headlines of thepapers we read and the news we consume.

This pamphlet suggests that the adherence tooutdated ways of thinking about socialinvolvement have intensified concern about oursense of community. This is connected toconversation. There is growing alarm – both inthe UK and elsewhere – that we are talking lessthan we used to. In this pamphlet, I suggest thatthis is a misconception and that the issue isactually much more complex. New technologiesenable us to speak to people anytime, anywhereand about virtually any topic we wish and this hasled to a fragmentation of interest groups. As aresult, we are talking less with those who do notshare those interests and less to people in theareas in which we live and more to people towhom we are tied by interest, but not necessarilylocale.

Although interest in community groups andorganisations seems to be dwindling, this is notmatched by a decline in our will to be involved indecision-making processes that affect the public

Introduction

Demos 17

realm. The way that we engage with those aroundus has changed. We no longer necessarily connectwith either conventional structures likecommunity societies or even spaces in which wecan interact and communicate with each other ona less formal basis, like markets. Instead, weconnect in different ways and around differentforms of conversation. Community involvementremains of vital importance, but structures ofengagement no longer reflect the ways in whichpeople are comfortable in having their say. Theissue is that people are not talking about publicaffairs less – they are engaging less frequently inthe means by which their conversation canbecome public.

On 5 July 2006, Demos convened a group ofinvited participants to have a conversation aboutconversation and what it means in the publicrealm. In that event, and in this pamphlet, we setout to ask some questions about our assumptionsof community and the possibilities implied bychanges in our society and the nature of ourconversations. This pamphlet proposes that, by

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combining what we know about conversationswith what we know about the changing nature ofcommunity, we have the opportunity toreinvigorate the public realm to engage a widerrange of people and give voice to the wider rangeof opinion on which our society is now built.

Introduction

Demos 19

1. The importanceof conversation

20 Demos

A world without conversation is a bleak one. Inthe Heart of Darkness, Joseph Conrad’s Kurtz talksand does little else: ‘the man presented himself asa voice’.3 Kurtz used his voice to construct his ownidentity, building a realm in which that identity issovereign. Ultimately, though, he is unbalanced:the problem is that he has developed an identitythat is isolated and shorn of contact. He has spentyears talking to nobody – he spoke and thosearound him simply heard and did as he said: theyneither listened nor engaged in any real ormeaningful sense. As a later commentator onconversation has put it, ‘with no access to ourspecies’ social feedback and control mechanisms,there will be nothing to keep misunderstanding,