proposition “the scriptures forbid a woman to authoritatively teach (didaskein) the scriptures to...

PropositionProposition““The Scriptures forbid a woman to The Scriptures forbid a woman to authoritatively teach (authoritatively teach (didaskeindidaskein) the ) the Scriptures to a man in every situation in Scriptures to a man in every situation in which the woman teaches a man which the woman teaches a man authoritatively.”authoritatively.”

Affirm: Marion R. FoxAffirm: Marion R. Fox

Deny: Jerry D. McDonaldDeny: Jerry D. McDonald

You will note that I am not claiming a You will note that I am not claiming a woman is forbidden to teach secular woman is forbidden to teach secular matters to a man. matters to a man.

Things Women May DoThings Women May Do

1-Grade a man’s Bible correspondence 1-Grade a man’s Bible correspondence course. course. 2-Impart spiritual information to a man.2-Impart spiritual information to a man.3-Answer a question a man has 3-Answer a question a man has concerning spiritual matters.concerning spiritual matters.4-Help to expound the way of God more 4-Help to expound the way of God more accurately to a man.accurately to a man.5-Show an erring brother his fault. 5-Show an erring brother his fault. 6-Teach secular matters to men.6-Teach secular matters to men.


7-Read the Bible to a man. 7-Read the Bible to a man.

8-Quote a passage of Scripture to a man.8-Quote a passage of Scripture to a man.

9-Give a Bible tract to a man.9-Give a Bible tract to a man.

10-Give a Bible to a man.10-Give a Bible to a man.

11-Ask Bible questions of a man.11-Ask Bible questions of a man.

12-Discuss spiritual matters with a man. 12-Discuss spiritual matters with a man.

13-Make comments in a discussion of spiritual 13-Make comments in a discussion of spiritual matters with a man. matters with a man.

14-Authoritatively teach women and children. 14-Authoritatively teach women and children.


Women may do any of the 14 things of the Women may do any of the 14 things of the two prior slides as long as she does not two prior slides as long as she does not violate Scripture in doing these things. violate Scripture in doing these things.

For example, she may not impart spiritual For example, she may not impart spiritual information to a man by preaching in a information to a man by preaching in a mixed worship assembly or be “the mixed worship assembly or be “the teacher” in a mixed Bible class. teacher” in a mixed Bible class.

This debate is not about these 14 matters.This debate is not about these 14 matters.


1 Tim: 2:12 (ASV) But I permit not a 1 Tim: 2:12 (ASV) But I permit not a woman to teach (woman to teach (didaskeindidaskein), nor to have ), nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in dominion over a man, but to be in quietness. quietness.

StipulationStipulation

When I say: “When I say: “didaskōdidaskō type teaching” I am type teaching” I am referring to the word that is translated: “to referring to the word that is translated: “to teach” in 1 Tim. 2:12. teach” in 1 Tim. 2:12.

I am making the claim that the teaching I am making the claim that the teaching that a woman is forbidden to do (with that a woman is forbidden to do (with regard to a man - regard to a man - didaskōdidaskō) is authoritative ) is authoritative type teaching (in 1 Tim. 2:12). I am not type teaching (in 1 Tim. 2:12). I am not claiming (claiming (in this debatein this debate) that ) that didaskōdidaskō is is always authoritative type teaching. always authoritative type teaching.

The Context Reveals Where This The Context Reveals Where This Applies (1 Tim. 2:8).Applies (1 Tim. 2:8).

1 Tim. 2:8 (ASV) I desire therefore that the 1 Tim. 2:8 (ASV) I desire therefore that the men pray men pray in every placein every place, (, (every where - every where - KJVKJV) lifting up holy hands, without wrath ) lifting up holy hands, without wrath and disputing. and disputing.

In the context of 1 Tim. 2:12, we learn that In the context of 1 Tim. 2:12, we learn that these verses apply “... in every place.” these verses apply “... in every place.”

There is no good reason to limit these There is no good reason to limit these words to public places. words to public places.

Errors that Jerry Must Make in Errors that Jerry Must Make in Order to Deny This PropositionOrder to Deny This Proposition

Jerry must use unsound hermeneutics Jerry must use unsound hermeneutics (Bible interpretation techniques). We will (Bible interpretation techniques). We will show these as the debate progresses.show these as the debate progresses.

Jerry must use unsound reasoning (he will Jerry must use unsound reasoning (he will commit fallacies in his reasoning). We will commit fallacies in his reasoning). We will show these as the debate progresses. show these as the debate progresses.

Terms DefinedTerms Defined

By “The Scriptures” I mean the 66 books By “The Scriptures” I mean the 66 books known as the Bible (i.e. 1 Tim. 2:12). known as the Bible (i.e. 1 Tim. 2:12). The word “forbid” means: “to proscribe The word “forbid” means: “to proscribe from or as if from or as if from a position of authorityfrom a position of authority: : command againstcommand against ...” (Merriam-Webster’s ...” (Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary, 10Collegiate Dictionary, 10thth edition) edition)Paul, Paul, from a position of authorityfrom a position of authority (as an (as an apostle of Christ), commanded against apostle of Christ), commanded against (forbade “...(forbade “... I permit not I permit not”) a woman ”) a woman authoritatively teaching a man (1 Tim. authoritatively teaching a man (1 Tim. 2:12). 2:12).

DEFINITION OF THE ENGLISH DEFINITION OF THE ENGLISH WORD “TEACH” WORD “TEACH”

1. a:1. a: to cause to know something <taught them to cause to know something <taught them a trade> a trade> b:b: to cause to know how <is ~ing me to to cause to know how <is ~ing me to drive> drive> c:c: to accustom to some action or attitude to accustom to some action or attitude <~students to think for themselves> <~students to think for themselves> d:d: to cause to know the disagreeable to cause to know the disagreeable consequences of some action <I’ll ~ you to come consequences of some action <I’ll ~ you to come home late> home late> 2:2: to guide the studies of to guide the studies of 3:3: to impart to impart the knowledge of <~ algebra> the knowledge of <~ algebra> 4 a:4 a: to instruct by to instruct by precept, example, or experience precept, example, or experience b:b: to make to make known and accepted <experience ~es us our known and accepted <experience ~es us our limitations> limitations> 5:5: to conduct instruction regularly in to conduct instruction regularly in <~ school> <~ school> vivi: to provide instruction: act as a : to provide instruction: act as a teacher (teacher (Merriam Webster's Collegiate Merriam Webster's Collegiate DictionaryDictionary, 10th edition) , 10th edition)

Logical Argument on Logical Argument on the Word “Teach”the Word “Teach”

Either definition 1 is correct, Either definition 1 is correct, definition 2 is correct, definition 3 definition 2 is correct, definition 3 is correct, definition 4 is correct, is correct, definition 4 is correct, definition 5 is correct, or some definition 5 is correct, or some other definition is correct (this other definition is correct (this dictionary does not have the dictionary does not have the correct definition).correct definition).

Fox’s Logical ArgumentFox’s Logical Argument

First PremiseFirst Premise: If definitions 1, 2, 3, and 4 : If definitions 1, 2, 3, and 4 are incorrect, then definition 5 is the are incorrect, then definition 5 is the correct definition. correct definition.

Second PremiseSecond Premise: Definitions 1, 2, 3, and 4 : Definitions 1, 2, 3, and 4 are incorrect. are incorrect.

ConclusionConclusion: Definition 5 is the correct : Definition 5 is the correct (sound) definition. (sound) definition.

This is true if Webster has the correct This is true if Webster has the correct definition of the word “teach.”definition of the word “teach.”

Logical ArgumentLogical Argument

First PremiseFirst Premise: If the interpretation of 1 Tim. : If the interpretation of 1 Tim. 2:12 is correct, then no approved action of 2:12 is correct, then no approved action of anyone in the Scriptures will conflict with anyone in the Scriptures will conflict with the interpretation of 1 Tim. 2:12. the interpretation of 1 Tim. 2:12.

Second PremiseSecond Premise: The approved action of : The approved action of _______ conflicts with the interpretation of _______ conflicts with the interpretation of 1 Tim. 2:12. 1 Tim. 2:12.

ConclusionConclusion: _____ is not the correct : _____ is not the correct interpretation of 1 Tim. 2:12. interpretation of 1 Tim. 2:12.

Logical Argument ClarifiedLogical Argument Clarified

We will establish that the approved actions We will establish that the approved actions of someone in the Scriptures conflicts with of someone in the Scriptures conflicts with the interpretation of 1 Tim. 2:12 for the first the interpretation of 1 Tim. 2:12 for the first four definitions of Merriam Webster. four definitions of Merriam Webster.

The apostles approved actions by either: The apostles approved actions by either: (1) an apostolic approved example, (2) a (1) an apostolic approved example, (2) a commandment, or (3) by a necessary commandment, or (3) by a necessary inference (logical implication). inference (logical implication).

Brotherhood Accepted PrincipleBrotherhood Accepted Principle

Our brotherhood has accepted the Our brotherhood has accepted the principle that a correct definition of a principle that a correct definition of a biblical word can be inserted into the biblical word can be inserted into the passage of Scripture in question and it will passage of Scripture in question and it will make sense. make sense.

Furthermore, a correct definition will not Furthermore, a correct definition will not pose a contradiction to other passages of pose a contradiction to other passages of Scripture. (All Scripture harmonizes with Scripture. (All Scripture harmonizes with all other Scripture.) all other Scripture.)

Proof that Definition One is Proof that Definition One is IncorrectIncorrect

1. a:1. a: to cause to knowto cause to know something <taught something <taught them a trade> them a trade> b:b: to cause to knowto cause to know how <is how <is ~ing me to drive> ~ing me to drive> c:c: to accustom to some to accustom to some action or attitude <~students to think for action or attitude <~students to think for themselves> themselves> d:d: to cause to knowto cause to know the the disagreeable consequences of some disagreeable consequences of some action <I’ll ~ you to come home late> action <I’ll ~ you to come home late>

Webster defines “teach” as “Webster defines “teach” as “to cause to to cause to knowknow …” (summary of above definition) …” (summary of above definition)

Definition Inserted into 1 Tim. 2:12Definition Inserted into 1 Tim. 2:12

1 Tim: 2:12 (ASV) But I permit not a 1 Tim: 2:12 (ASV) But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.over a man, but to be in quietness.

1 Tim. 2:12 But I permit not a woman 1 Tim. 2:12 But I permit not a woman to to cause to know cause to know ((the Scripturesthe Scriptures), nor to ), nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness. quietness.

First Definition ExaminedFirst Definition Examined

This interpretation means that a woman is This interpretation means that a woman is forbidden to impart any instruction (cause forbidden to impart any instruction (cause a man to know) relating to the Scriptures. a man to know) relating to the Scriptures.

However, we do see women imparting However, we do see women imparting spiritual information to men in several spiritual information to men in several passages of Scripture. passages of Scripture.

Clearly Clearly didaskōdidaskō type teaching is not type teaching is not merely imparting information to another merely imparting information to another person. person.

One can “cause to know” by: One can “cause to know” by:

Answering a Bible question Answering a Bible question

Giving spiritual information Giving spiritual information

Quoting a passage of Scripture Quoting a passage of Scripture

Reading the Bible to someone Reading the Bible to someone

Expounding the way of God Expounding the way of God

Giving testimony of spiritual matters Giving testimony of spiritual matters

Therefore none of the above constitute the Therefore none of the above constitute the kind of teaching forbidden in 1 Tim. 2:12. kind of teaching forbidden in 1 Tim. 2:12.

Jerry McDonald Cannot Accept Jerry McDonald Cannot Accept the First Definitionthe First Definition

He is affirming: “The Great Commission He is affirming: “The Great Commission (as given in Mt. 28:19-20 and Mk. 16:15-(as given in Mt. 28:19-20 and Mk. 16:15-16) always has obligated all Christians 16) always has obligated all Christians (including women) (including women) to preach and teach the to preach and teach the gospel to every creaturegospel to every creature ...” ...”

Obviously women will “Obviously women will “cause men to know cause men to know the Scripturesthe Scriptures” when they ” when they preach and preach and teach the gospelteach the gospel to every creature (every to every creature (every creature includes men). creature includes men).

Second Definition ExaminedSecond Definition ExaminedThe second definition: “The second definition: “2:2: to guide the to guide the studies of” studies of”


1 Tim. 2:12 But I permit not a woman 1 Tim. 2:12 But I permit not a woman to to guide the studies of guide the studies of ((the Scripturesthe Scriptures), nor to ), nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness. quietness.

Second Definition ExaminedSecond Definition Examined

Does 1 Tim. 2:12 forbid guiding the Does 1 Tim. 2:12 forbid guiding the studies of a man by: studies of a man by:

Answering a Bible question, Answering a Bible question,

Giving spiritual information, Giving spiritual information,

Quoting a passage of Scripture, Quoting a passage of Scripture,

Reading the Bible,Reading the Bible,

Expounding the way of God, Expounding the way of God,

etc.? etc.?

Jerry McDonald Cannot Accept Jerry McDonald Cannot Accept the Second Definitionthe Second Definition


Obviously women will “guide the studies of Obviously women will “guide the studies of men” when they men” when they preach and teach the preach and teach the gospel to every creaturegospel to every creature (every creature (every creature includes men). includes men).

Third Definition ExaminedThird Definition Examined

The third definition is: “The third definition is: “3:3: to impart the to impart the knowledge of” knowledge of”


1 Tim. 2:12 But I permit not a woman 1 Tim. 2:12 But I permit not a woman to to impart the knowledge of impart the knowledge of ((the Scripturesthe Scriptures), ), nor to have dominion over a man, but to nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness. be in quietness.

One can impart knowledge of by:One can impart knowledge of by:

Answering a Bible question Answering a Bible question Giving spiritual information Giving spiritual information Quoting a passage of Scripture Quoting a passage of Scripture Reading the Bible to someone Reading the Bible to someone Expounding the way of God Expounding the way of God Giving testimony of spiritual matters Giving testimony of spiritual matters Therefore none of the above constitute the Therefore none of the above constitute the kind of teaching forbidden in 1 Tim. 2:12. kind of teaching forbidden in 1 Tim. 2:12.

Jerry McDonald Cannot Accept Jerry McDonald Cannot Accept the Third Definitionthe Third Definition


Obviously women will “Obviously women will “impart the impart the knowledge of the Scripturesknowledge of the Scriptures” when they ” when they preach and teach the gospel to every preach and teach the gospel to every creaturecreature (every creature includes men). (every creature includes men).

Fourth Definition ExaminedFourth Definition ExaminedThe fourth definition is: “The fourth definition is: “a:a: to instruct by to instruct by precept, example, or experience precept, example, or experience b:b: to to make known and accepted …” make known and accepted …” 1 Tim: 2:12 (ASV) But I permit not a 1 Tim: 2:12 (ASV) But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.over a man, but to be in quietness.1 Tim. 2:12 But I permit not a woman 1 Tim. 2:12 But I permit not a woman to to instruct by precept, example, or instruct by precept, example, or experience of experience of ((the Scripturesthe Scriptures), nor to have ), nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.quietness.

One can: One can: aa: instruct by precept, : instruct by precept, example, or experience or example, or experience or bb: make : make

known and accepted by:known and accepted by:Answering a Bible question Answering a Bible question Giving spiritual information Giving spiritual information Quoting a passage of Scripture Quoting a passage of Scripture Reading the Bible to someone Reading the Bible to someone Expounding the way of God Expounding the way of God Giving testimony of spiritual matters Giving testimony of spiritual matters Therefore none of the above constitute the Therefore none of the above constitute the kind of teaching forbidden in 1 Tim. 2:12.kind of teaching forbidden in 1 Tim. 2:12.

Jerry McDonald Cannot Accept Jerry McDonald Cannot Accept the Fourth Definitionthe Fourth Definition

He is affirming: “The Great Commission He is affirming: “The Great Commission (as given in Mt. 28:19-20 and Mk. 16:15-(as given in Mt. 28:19-20 and Mk. 16:15-16) always has obligated all Christians 16) always has obligated all Christians (including women) (including women) to preach and teach the to preach and teach the gospel to every creaturegospel to every creature ...” ...”Obviously women will “Obviously women will “instruct by precept, instruct by precept, example, or experienceexample, or experience the Scriptures” the Scriptures” when they when they preach and teach the gospel to preach and teach the gospel to every creatureevery creature (every creature includes (every creature includes men). men).

Fifth Definition ExaminedFifth Definition ExaminedThe fifth definition is: “The fifth definition is: “5:5: to conduct to conduct instruction regularly in <~ school> instruction regularly in <~ school> vivi: to : to provide instruction: act as a teacher” provide instruction: act as a teacher”


1 Tim. 2:12 But I permit not a woman 1 Tim. 2:12 But I permit not a woman to to act as a teacher of act as a teacher of ((the Scripturesthe Scriptures), nor to ), nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness. quietness.

Correct Exegesis of PassagesCorrect Exegesis of PassagesAll principles of the Law of Moses are either All principles of the Law of Moses are either eternal principles (binding for all time) or eternal principles (binding for all time) or temporary principles (only binding under the Law temporary principles (only binding under the Law of Moses). of Moses). No temporary principles are binding after the No temporary principles are binding after the cross (Col. 2:14).cross (Col. 2:14).The principle of subjection of women to men is a The principle of subjection of women to men is a principle of the Law of Moses that is binding principle of the Law of Moses that is binding after the cross (1 Cor. 14:34, 1 Tim. 2:11-15, after the cross (1 Cor. 14:34, 1 Tim. 2:11-15, and 1 Pet. 3:5-6). and 1 Pet. 3:5-6). Therefore, the principle of subjection of women Therefore, the principle of subjection of women to men is an eternal principle. to men is an eternal principle.

Passages on SubjectionPassages on Subjection1 Cor. 14:34 let the women keep silence in 1 Cor. 14:34 let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but them to speak; but let them be in let them be in subjection, as also saith the lawsubjection, as also saith the law..

1 Tim. 2:11 Let a woman learn in 1 Tim. 2:11 Let a woman learn in quietness quietness with all subjectionwith all subjection. .

Passages on SubjectionPassages on Subjection

1 Pet. 3:5 For after this manner 1 Pet. 3:5 For after this manner aforetime aforetime the holy women alsothe holy women also, who hoped in God, , who hoped in God, adorned themselves, being adorned themselves, being in subjection to in subjection to their own husbands:their own husbands: 6 as Sarah obeyed 6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose children Abraham, calling him lord: whose children ye now are, if ye do well, and are not put ye now are, if ye do well, and are not put in fear by any terror.in fear by any terror.

This is in the patriarchal dispensation. This is in the patriarchal dispensation.

Passages on SubjectionPassages on Subjection

It is evident from this argument (on 1 Cor. It is evident from this argument (on 1 Cor. 14:34, 1 Tim. 2:13-15, and 1 Pet. 3:5-6) 14:34, 1 Tim. 2:13-15, and 1 Pet. 3:5-6) that the principle of subjection of woman to that the principle of subjection of woman to man in both the spiritual realm and in the man in both the spiritual realm and in the home is an eternal principle that was home is an eternal principle that was established in Eden. established in Eden.

ConclusionConclusion: Women have always been : Women have always been obligated to be in subjection to men in obligated to be in subjection to men in both the home and in the spiritual realm. both the home and in the spiritual realm.

Logical ArgumentLogical ArgumentFirst PremiseFirst Premise: If the law of God in the New : If the law of God in the New Testament is that women are not to engage in Testament is that women are not to engage in some type of teaching of men (1 Tim. 2:12), then some type of teaching of men (1 Tim. 2:12), then no commandment of an apostle entails women no commandment of an apostle entails women engaging in the type teaching of men forbidden engaging in the type teaching of men forbidden in 1 Tim. 2:12. in 1 Tim. 2:12. Second PremiseSecond Premise: The law of God in the New : The law of God in the New Testament is that women are not to engage in Testament is that women are not to engage in some type teaching of men. (1 Tim. 2:12)some type teaching of men. (1 Tim. 2:12)ConclusionConclusion: No commandment of an apostle : No commandment of an apostle entails women engaging in the type of teaching entails women engaging in the type of teaching of men forbidden in 1 Tim. 2:12.of men forbidden in 1 Tim. 2:12.

Logical ArgumentLogical ArgumentFirst PremiseFirst Premise: If the law of God in the New : If the law of God in the New Testament is that women are not to engage in Testament is that women are not to engage in some type of teaching of men (1 Tim. 2:12), then some type of teaching of men (1 Tim. 2:12), then no apostolic approved example entails women no apostolic approved example entails women engaging in the type teaching of men forbidden engaging in the type teaching of men forbidden in 1 Tim. 2:12. in 1 Tim. 2:12. Second PremiseSecond Premise: The law of God in the New : The law of God in the New Testament is that women are not to engage in Testament is that women are not to engage in some type of teaching of men. (1 Tim. 2:12)some type of teaching of men. (1 Tim. 2:12)ConclusionConclusion: No apostolic approved example : No apostolic approved example entails women engaging in the type of teaching entails women engaging in the type of teaching of men forbidden in 1 Tim. 2:12.of men forbidden in 1 Tim. 2:12.

Logical ArgumentLogical ArgumentFirst PremiseFirst Premise: If the law of God in the New : If the law of God in the New Testament is that women are not to engage in Testament is that women are not to engage in some type of teaching of men (1 Tim. 2:12), then some type of teaching of men (1 Tim. 2:12), then no necessary inference from the Scriptures no necessary inference from the Scriptures entails women engaging in the type teaching of entails women engaging in the type teaching of men forbidden in 1 Tim. 2:12. men forbidden in 1 Tim. 2:12. Second PremiseSecond Premise: The law of God in the New : The law of God in the New Testament is that women are not to engage in Testament is that women are not to engage in some type of teaching of men. (1 Tim. 2:12)some type of teaching of men. (1 Tim. 2:12)ConclusionConclusion: No necessary inference from the : No necessary inference from the Scriptures entails women engaging in the type of Scriptures entails women engaging in the type of teaching of men forbidden in 1 Tim. 2:12.teaching of men forbidden in 1 Tim. 2:12.

Conclusion of Logical ArgumentsConclusion of Logical Arguments

From this we determine that there is neither an From this we determine that there is neither an apostolic approved example, nor a apostolic approved example, nor a commandment, nor a necessary inference of commandment, nor a necessary inference of women engaging in the type of teaching of men women engaging in the type of teaching of men that is forbidden in 1 Tim. 2:12. that is forbidden in 1 Tim. 2:12.

This means that most of the arguments that This means that most of the arguments that have been brought up by those who are trying to have been brought up by those who are trying to modify the role of women in the Lord’s church modify the role of women in the Lord’s church are unsound arguments. are unsound arguments.

What we have provenWhat we have proven

The prohibition of 1 Tim. 2:12 applies “in The prohibition of 1 Tim. 2:12 applies “in every place” (ASV) or “everywhere” (KJV) every place” (ASV) or “everywhere” (KJV) according to the context (1 Tim. 2:8). according to the context (1 Tim. 2:8).

The teaching forbidden in 1 Tim. 2:12 is The teaching forbidden in 1 Tim. 2:12 is authoritative type teaching (a teacher-pupil authoritative type teaching (a teacher-pupil relationship). relationship).

This proves my proposition to be true. This proves my proposition to be true.

Things Marion has not said in his Things Marion has not said in his propositionproposition

Marion has not said that all teaching by a Marion has not said that all teaching by a woman of a man is forbidden (only woman of a man is forbidden (only authoritative teaching is forbidden). authoritative teaching is forbidden).

Marion has not said that all Marion has not said that all didaskōdidaskō type type teaching is forbidden. (Marion has only teaching is forbidden. (Marion has only said that authoritative said that authoritative didaskōdidaskō type type teaching is forbidden. [This allows for the teaching is forbidden. [This allows for the logical possibility that non-authoritative logical possibility that non-authoritative didaskōdidaskō type teaching exists.]) type teaching exists.])


Affirm: Marion R. FoxAffirm: Marion R. Fox

Deny: Jerry D. McDonaldDeny: Jerry D. McDonald

You will note that I am not claiming a You will note that I am not claiming a woman is forbidden to teach secular woman is forbidden to teach secular matters to a man. matters to a man.

proposition “the scriptures forbid a woman to authoritatively teach (didaskein) the scriptures to...

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