Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Council

TUESDAY, 26 AUGUST 1913

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

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\.PPODrTElJ TO i\1 J:t:.ET

AT H!lfSI;A:\E 0:\ 'riiE SE'>EXTJ;EXTli Dj.Y OP JFNf:, I:\ TID; ]'OUR'fl! YK\lt m' 'l'!H' ltEWX Ol)' ill:', }IAJESTY JdXl; ('EU!WE Y., L'i Til}} YEA11 Ul!' OF!t LORD 1913.

[VOLUME 2 OF 1913.]

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Tc;ESDAY, 26 AucusT, 1913.

The• PRESIDL:\T, (Hon. Sir Arthur Mo,·gan) took the chair .:ct half-past 3 o'clock.

.i.UDITOU.GE""ElL\L'S HEPOH'l'.

Th" PRESlDFNT n,JOrted that he had f.hls dav rcceiv(•d fron1 the .Liuditor-Gcneral h[s <•ig-htccnth half-~ c>arly rqJOrt under the queenoland .National Bank, Limited (Agrce­lllcnt), 2\ct of ll:L-:.

Ordered to bo printed.

AMEXD::VIENT OF STANDIXG ORDEH No. 18.

REPORT OF STAXIliN<} 0EDERS Co:mnTTEE.

HoN. A. H. BARLO\\' prccented a reprrt fro'n t'10 Standing Oiclers Committee, which

in pursuance of instructions given by Council on 6th Auguc:, and moYed that paper be )Hinted.

Que ·lion put and passed.

RABBIT BILL.

SECO:i'D READI:i'G.

HoN. A. I-L BARLOW e • .1i,l: In moving tho second reading of this Bill, I shall have to claim the a,·sist:onco and the tolerance of hon. members, some of whom may know a

''re:ct deal more about the suhjeot than I do. '.fhG Bill is Yery largely a consolidation. It inyoh-es one or two principles which I shall endeavour to set Lcfore tho Council, and l urn sure -t h <.dJ with the exporienco of men1ber~ ·who spo:ck on tho o:- ,ond reading we shall get a large amount o; light thrown upon the subject. Til( '~.0 are one or two i1nprov.o­n1ents on tho intc~rprotation clause. Sub­cla<Y'o (2) of olause 3 makes provision for r ·clueing sheep and cattle to a common equi\·aknt whc :> r· 1wPp and ccttlc aru dopm:­tnrcd on tho same holding. That is not so in th" Jl!'O"ent Ac•. In subda·;oe (3), when " run ie :,ltJnted partl,v in one district and I ntl:. in another, the land shall be deemed to b:, cit.:,tted \dwllv within the district in -.-,-hich tho grcBJcr p'art is situated. It has Leon doubtful hitherto whether tho :i-1inis: cr has .- Llpcr .·ision over tho district board<:>, Lut that is 1nalo clear in clau~e 5, l.,Thich pro­vides th:1t he is to have jurisdiction ov< r th<-•Je separate boards. Tho Central Rabbit Board, consisting of the Hinistcr, as chair­rnan ex offi'-jo, antl an~· nu1n~P':' of mornbors not cxc~"ding six, is to be .a bJard of advicc to tho Mini' ~r. The Central R,·bbit Board do<, not appear to have any spPcial legisb,.+ivo or cocrciYe functions. B' clause 9 tho JYlinistcr 1nay { .:tus to bo s0rVed upon th0 o,vner of 'm.· holding whirh is enclosed with a rabbit­proof fenc·· a notice requiring him to t;,Jcp >"eps forthwith to destroy rabbit-s. That power <lee.' not exist at present. Except on 1 he 'lclvicn of a board, the Minister has nm no po ~T. if he sees things are going wrong·, to serv-0 r nctite on thG owner. Under tlli Bill, if thP owner ncgleccs for thirty fbys­fortncrl~7 th{' period "f", ,1s sixty days~~.; take action, he shall incur a .PenaltJ for hi~ non­action. Subclause (4) g1ves a ready remedy

Rabbit Bill. [UOUNGIL.] Rabbit BiF.

fer th _ recovery of c --~bs, charg-e;, and cx­s<'rtrclting for or destroying rabbits

holding._,, rr'hat is in eases whore he s to step in :md take the

hancl himcl'lf. The Governor in , -<a.l ~i3h rabLi-G districts in

d·'crr- ~:hall bo a board. Some h n: thcm;;ht th:· ~ there should be

one Leard for tbe ,chok State, but thr ra:opa:. C'l'S ancl iho dificrcnt conditions in tl:o diiiL'rc~·t district:J L!.USt he considered, ar~~: it has been dccnv:d advisable that sopa­r-;,tc bon," d.~ shJuhl bo rreatLd. Clau··:e 12 t:C'aL ' ith ·:bG qi.lalifi{~atioas of ill( .-nbers and r lector-. FOl'mc r ly '\n owner could exorcise n-ine \TLc-. Thu nun1bcr is no·.\ cut do,_,, n to thn c.

Hon. W. V. BllOWN: Why 1, that 9

HoN. :c. H. BARLOW: I am alway; \clvcrsc to cutting down a plurality of Yates. The.o is no oxplanatio 1 given iu the digest which hr, b 'c:1 prepared for me by tho Lands De)oartrn<:nt. It m.,rcly cites tho fact, bd I ·,yi]] make inquiry as to wh.l' the change is pToposcd. Clause 13 proYld< , that an election of mem Lers shall he h< ld before the 31 ·~ chy of July in c;ery year. Hitherto thu elate has not boon fixed. Provinion is then IT'~\.de for the vac "ttion Df office by dis-crLli(L_;,_-~tion, r.nd \vhich is purely an of:lcial C'YLactrnent. 19 ~iv,~s tho Go-vernor ia Council power to aboli h any board if it is not \Yorktnb pl'opcr1;·, an<l tho J\1in­i:;:·;,_-.r r:::~ay as-~unle charge That principle is incorporated in tho L~~ 1l Authorities Act. If a Jc, d 1thority is abusiu;: its functions, a:;J has b~cvn1u _f)('-rver.·r~, the l\:Iinister has

h di,,solvo it; end, if the 'Governor power to cliseoh' Parliament, I do not

JO why h•. should not have power to abolish 1ninor 'bodies. Fer tho pcuposc of creatin~ a fund br t an:·in,; out tho ~\ct, tho board of c><eh district rna v in each vear levv an a:C· ) .. mo:Jt not CX('CO.din~ 5•. nor loss than 1s. on , ,-or} twenty head of cattle, and not ex­cocdino; 5 .. nor lce:J than ls. vn every 100 sheep di tribut"d within tho district. I beli0Yo th·rt is the sarno as at present. In

craph (r) of clause 20 it is provided 11., acoC' nncnt shall be [Myable in

of · tock de pastured upon a holding to tho >atisfaction of tho board, is

cnc:oscd with a rabbit-proof fDncc. That puts the man who deals with the Go, YC'rn;?.l.ent and the ~nan "''·ho erects his O\Vn

fence on a leveL FormerlY the man ',vho dettlt wi1h the Govcrmuent '~as the only man '\ho ~;·ot an\' indulg•)nc::: in respect of .0'3sess­rn~Dt. Paragraph (f) provides that no assessment shall be payable in respect of any holdill';; whiCh i, ,oitua'·ed outside of the main raL>Lib fence. Tho rabbit districts and thD State boundaries a1.e not coterruinous. There i? some reason why the rabbit fence is placed some di.tanco in,,,;do the boundary of tho State, and it is woposcd to g:ve relief to a pcl>On who, although he ifl outside the jurisdir !·ion ,,f a board, is nevertheless ex­pc~ted to pa:. a:· 'ecsmcn+ He is to be tr• a ted with fairnes... He is outside the fo1·tificction,. L·,.t, if he makes usc of anv portion of tho border fenc<•, he has to pa~· +o tho 0:-dent of tho bct1efit he deriyos frorn th0 UE•' of Lll0 fence. sd-n1e of the sub'\~­CJ.U:2nt c1au·:cs arc pu:._·cly 1nachinery clauses, and :ll'C moct!y 1'8-cnactmontc. In clause 30, \Vhat are- knO\'V:i1 as ''point-to-point fences" ar0 dealt with. T n sorrw caseA runs arc

[Hol7. A. II. Bm·low,

whollv enclosed with rctbbit,proof fences. belt thr J inc isolated-they are not connected the one with tho other-and the lessee of thu intervening country is under no obligation to connect, ·.:·ith tho cmJ ,cqnencc that, wh1lc theso fnncc~ arc dfective fortii-ic·;,tions ,_c.gainst rabbits "o far ;-;; tho enclosed tc~Ti­tory is tone rned, they aro not barner­against raLbits in gc 'lel al. This clause puts the matter right. It compr is tho erection. under r2rtain condition··, of "point-to-point fence.," and tho bo .. rd is to pay part of the co.Jt under curtain circn~nstances. 'rhen clauo0 31 contains a definition of how the o,., ners o£ hvidings are to contribute. The owner d a holding \vithin which such a fence, or any part theerof, i, erected_ shall Lc liable to contribntc one-fvurth of the cost. the owners of tho holding· on either .'ide oi such fence shall each bu lial•lo to contribute• one-fourth of the cmt, and tlw remainder of the cost shall be borne by the owner" of the holdings within the di Jtrict which, in the opinion of the board, arc protected from th, incur ions of rabbits bv such fence. Then •ve fii1d that in dat"'" 0:l, ··u'1d \USC' (2)--

" Tho Governor in Council n1a.v authorise tho Minister, out of any monevs apDI·opriat'·d by Parli ·uncnt by ·::av of endowment under this Act, to prOvido wire' nottinp; to ho affixcc1 by a board +o a f~nce, and to defray tho cost vf. s~lCh Hett~ng ,~:eliYcrcd at the nearcr;t. r:::1hray sta~1on.

But tlu .. ·H} cun!C3 a lirrlitation--

" bat the an1cvnt C'":pcnded in dcfrav­ing such co:.:t i11 any district in an) year sha1l nt>t. r "Ceed the a-n1ount aeL;ally raised by assc··'lments under thi'' A<"' \vi thin the district during that year."

So that tho Government r ndowmc:n+. •. limited to £1 for £1. Part VI. introduces nov. principle. I unde,·staad that at pre­sent a holJer gets netting fron1 the Govern~ rnent under an o1Jllg-ttion to kcr;p it in rq><~ir, and pay a r 'ntal equal to 5 per CPnt. on i' in pc:rpctuit .. ·. Under this Bill, lw is allowed to get th:' v,-in• n 'tting and pa ... for it on certain t:·rmo. He is allowed w pav it off accordinp: to a tab1.1l<Hed stat"~ mG'nt of payments, and he is allov c:l und<'r another tuble something in considC'ration of what he has already paid. That swms a fair and a proper thing, and. of course, '"hen, under tho L •nd .\ct, the loa:.cs are determinrd otherwise than b•. forfeiture, this fence, which has been put ;;, and 11aid for, Leco1nes a.n irnprovcll''Ht, :mel is Uealt ·with like any other im)ll'OV10111nnt undt the Lane! Act of 1910. These c!ames continue almost down to clause 41, where the annual payment i.J speciiied. Thou 1 ht follo,ving ch,J.ses d::al with the regi.:;tration of ,,~cnriti(~S, and the security which the Crown is to gee for the wire netting it has supplied. It sots out tluc Ya~:iou· was.; in Trhich thP n1ortcagors are to -.-ec ue tho Cro ,\tn ag;tiu~t lo "· Clau~o 44 r;ivcs a t.1ble nnd·Jr .which the annual payments for the ;cars during which intorcsc on the original cost is to be paid are spoci, fied. Th1.t, of course, i-~ a clin1ini.Jhing quantity. It starts at .£7 5c,, 9d. in the first :·ear, m1d th'rindles away ~o J~.S 3~. 5cl. jn the twentieth yc .u. The,! there i tt pro, vision for the apport:dnrnent of n1one\· charg·ed on lands in c,.,,, of su bdiYision, and anothu· for the misu ·'3 of "ire nDtting pro-

Raobit Bill. [26 AUGUST,] Rabbit Bill. 975

vidod Ly the Government. In clause 47 is a definition of what the cost of wire netting lllcludes. It includes the expenses of d;'liverj at the railway station and all inci­thntal charges. Then there are gerwral provisions, which arP n1ostly ro-onactnwnts, and include penalties for the destruction or wilful damage of wire w,tting. There i~ also a prohrbition against the sale of rabbits. Of course, some people might de"iro to set up a rabbit industry, lmt clausc 51 >Yill block them~

" Any person who, without tho !icc:rse of the jyJinister, offers or pays or causcs to be offered or paid any bonus or scalp monu, as a reward for the destruction of any r;abbit, or who sells or purchases or causes to Lo sold or purchased, or keeps, exposes, offers. or exports for sale, or causr, to be kept, exposed, offered, or exported for •· ale, any rabbit or rabLit's skin. shall he liable to a penalty not exceeding fifty pounds."

That scotches the rabbit-breeding industr,Y. The remainder of the clauses ;,re mainly o£ a machinery nature. The First Schedule is a schedule very similar to the .•chedules attached to Local Government Bills, and the Second Schedule contains tho rules governing· tho proceedings of the boards-the standing orders of tho boards. I cannot say that l have given a V·'ry expert account of th<e Bill. and I must relv on the great experrence of wme members of this Council to eluci­date oome points which I may have obscured. I have here the original Bill, as it was prepared for the use of the Secretary for Public Lands in the Assembly, and in it I can turn up the answers to any questions that ma.v b0 put. But it is mainly a Com­mittee Bill, and in Committee the principal work will be done. I trust I have explained it to tho best of my ability, a'nd I now move that tho Bill be read a second time.

II ox. W. V. BROWN: It is generally admitted that the Bill before us is an im­provement on the existing Act, and I think the prineiple will be readily accepted by mcmbe!'s of this Chamber. There arc a few poinL in connection with it which I should 1iko to sec a1nencled in Comn1ittcc. I under­:-tand that owners of countrv or lPssccs of land from thro Crown arc liabie to pa,- assess­tllc·nt c.-en if thev have no stock on tho c·mmtr;·. That is 'to say, if a person likes to hold a run and not stock it, he has to nav ns~e:;snwnt. I am not quite sure about it 'mv .. ,,l£, hut I think there is a provision to th.at effect.

The An·oRl'iEY-GEXEIHL: You arc rcfPrring to the qualification of members.

IIcn. A. H. B.mLow: I£ you give me the clanot', I will let the Minister for Lands knovl.

Hon. :Yl. JENSEN: Clause 20.

II ox. W. V. BROWN: I believe it has h<•n the practice in the past. Clauce 20 [HO\ ides that tho aE'•es,mont shall m no ca -o be on " a Ices number of stock than in he proportion of such n!'mb<'r of ca~tle or dwep for every square mrle of a holdmg as the Governo:· in Council may fix." I think tl18 idea is that the lessee should Day assess­ment evt>n although he has no stock.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: He has to pay a minimum amount.

lioN. W. V. BROWN: It seems to me that there is 110 provi~::ion for the per,on '\vho pa~, ~~ the rninin1urn a ~.sessnwnt on vacant country to have a vote. I think it follows that anyone who vays .a.Jses:--ment shoulq be entitlPd to c.t vote. lf he is rated, l t hmlc he should be ailo\vcd to vote, and, therefore, a shgh~ an1rndrucnt is necessar .. i? clcElSe 12. I ._.sh:Ld just no-"'? ·why the Yotlng po~ver , of any holder had bet~n reduce l frmn rune ro thrcP. I think it is a point that \Vants looking ir~to. l can qttit·· unde1·stancl that a persv;l havmg three contiguou·. holdL1g-> and Nor~r_ng thc'.~11 a~ one honld Le in the 5':;tnle po:nhon as a 1nan who has one pl'o~:ert::', bt~t "\vhcre a nersou has t~1r• - z.c four stations rn the san1~· i·abbit district, \vhich rabbit dist_rict 1nay e1nbrace a very large area, rt . seen1s rather abf_;urd t!ta,t h'"" should bt.. l'C;trrcterl. to one votG as if he had onlv one property. That is d'e )erving of son1c little considera-tion. Then, under tl1._ exi-;ting _\ct, tl~P l-te_~i <rur­G··nNr.l ha ~ to :'!!>ply the returrmg mhcer at elections of beards and che clerks of tho 1~JOarc1s ,., i.th an ofilc:al return of the nun1ber nf holllin···: and stock; but in th{l present Bill that seerr1:; to haYe been modific~d to a certain extent. I think is a very ucce:sary pro-visiorL clerk< of tlw boards, unle ,s b:v some official infor-nation a · ck lartJncntJ n1av havG very ~~re:.tt ~in a'f~uratelY asS('',.,,ing the stoc~o- uer"l. I am inforn1ed that the praf 'ice F_ C\;r ti1 stocko,vners to Inakc ro~urn..; in Jam·rL:y of each year to the cll'rks of vet:_-,, sessions iu their rcspcctivn districts, a net to pay rtock as::.:E. · s1.nent~. I think that is iJmvidcd fc: in tho Stock Returns Act o( 1893. The clerks of pottv se~~sions lJa it on to tho L{o;;istrar-Genoral, ac1d he l;as t·:> oflki.d rctnu" I do not see '"hv retnrr.s should no1·, he av1ilablc co"thc of ],onrds, so that the? can prep-31'8 UCLLll:atc lists of. ar --:cs~nnents. .I think it \~'ould aLo ho an ll1l!>rovcn1ent 1f the Registrar-General a copy to the Auditor'Goncral. because c Audrtm-Gcnernl insnrr:ts tho books and docun,·'nts of thn va1:ious boards, .tel it \vould be of very great a qistanc<' to :~be audit i:,spectors if tho:· W8re ahlc to t:'...H' copi0s of thf rclnrns \ritl~ thcn1 0:1 th0ir tuurs of in }1C'{ :on. If ""'hrn is sr>ction 13 of thd 0:s:ist:ng ~,1_.ct is to ho r .... tainc· 1 ancl provi:·ion rna de for the tion of a roll. clause 7 in t h:' will r0quin~ :;Olllf'lvhat that a prO}lOr retq;·n the H,pr~istrar-GeJl{ ···:Jj, cmnpct.:.nt to f:..1:·ni: h it.

lion. __ \. II. "CxaLor-: For the flr"'t election the Rc"i ctrar-General Lt in , ,'nd in a return b: ch~sp 2 of the First Schedule.

lim;. \Y. V. n:lOYI"l\': In the first imhtm ., ves; hnt I think h' is not I'CC]uirP<l to fnr­iJish anv return af'· ,' that In clanoP 7 of tlw schedul~ it is ;J;ovidt J that tho clerk hall prepare a roll.~ I do not ~. ~·O how clc rks can do this.

Hon. ; . li. B ·.uLo>· : I shall !"' delighted to con:·.:idcr .1ny anH'rHhner subrnittcd.

J-Tox. \V_ ""~,~. BRO\'\·~·,y: I thin;.;: thi:; is an in1portant Inatter, ancl ! \vip ha.vt' an :<n1cnd~ ment prepured Jy the .> uh.:mcn'uy Drafto .. nnu. <J that the hen. ~,rntlc nan en cnnsidc·r ;,. I have nothin"' mr:·. to oaY. I think tho Hill S~to'Jld. 1cL~S its ~econcl TC~ading.

lim;. :M .• JE:\SEN: Th. Bill appears to mn to be a very decided impro.-ement on the

H on. jlf. J ense.n.]

976 Rabbit Bit!. [COU:'\UlL.] Rubbit Bill.

existing Act. It is the practice under the existin~; Act to limit the assessment according to the ncunbor of stock shown in the stock rcturm. In fact, it could not have been done in any other way, yet there is no expr('";ccl provision to that effect in the p1·• 'lmt Act. Of course, that has been reco"­ni.,ed by an express statemont here thott tho tax is to be levied on the number of sto( k shown in the returns undr,- the btoek Acts. There are other necc.s;.mrv irnprovenlent·~ Jj,or instance, in the o ist.ir~g Act the defini­tion of " mcner " is cimply '' owner of tho country." rrh,.tt has been oxt::mdu:I_ to llH:!an

.. tho owner of the countr. or tho stock." That is again a decided ir'nprovement, and may relieve a bwtrcl fro.d a difficultv. I think there is no douh', with all respect to the lion. Mr. Brown, al.out thr' right to vote of the man ,., ho has onlv got countr-y, because a n1ini:muru asses~unent is l.>rovided for, and he votes in accvrdance with th•' number of otock. lie is SLlfljlOSed. for tite pm·lcJSCS of a::JSf'·Snient, to have a 1nininJun1 nurnber of stock, and he ill still have a vote. In clause 20 there i,, a prO\ ision that the assessment shall in no case be upon " a less number of stock than in the proportion of ruch numLer of rattle or sheep as tho Governor in Council may fix from time to time." Tho Governor in Council fixes the n'lmb<"'. and in respect of that number the holder is l' ,ted. There­fore, in respect of that nmnLor, under clause 12 he would have a vo1 c. liow8ver, any douht there _n1a::- bo m.n f lsil,, be r''rnovcd b:,~ a slight anlf:nchnent i11 Corn ;11ittcn. There is a )ll'OYision in the Bill ···hich does not exi,t in the presc1t Act, ,Jroviding how tho

tax is to be L vied in the event [4 p.m.] of the nbdivision of"· holding. It

would b0 as well if, as unde1 tl:o Locel Authoriti<?s Act. ]1'' ·one, cubdivicl­ing \Yere con1pellcd to ~ivo noti<...P at once to the [,oard. Otherwise, if the board has to levy and distnin, it might be in doubt as to thr· amount for which it should lev' and distrain. In othN rcs1wcts the Bill' is a df''?idt'd improven1ent. Take~. for instance, the pro:io-ion with re•,ard to 'he stock which may ho clistrained upon in tho event of non­paynwnt of the a 1no"'.:lt. . tt prc.·ent the tax is I 'Y~ablo npon thP stcw!( "ordi.:1arilv dt~pa turod '' on the holding. I have ho:>ar~1 d.uulJt:J l'"XlH"CP3f'r1 tin1c aftf~:· tin1e as to ti\:hat 1 DH'.I1l1: h7 the~ f't(r;k "orclinal'ilv depc.'~-1~Hn'd ~' Oil u. hoidi-:.~. .L\P rloubt is urmnovod h;.- this Bill. As under the Local Authorities .\f't. tlw board e~n distrain au all the stock on tho holding. rci':arcllns of th<> ownership. IYhieh giYcs thc_n "L p(Jwcr they ,~.·ill never n(•eJ to c~''Tri 3C.

II on. A. II. r "'~ow: B~co,uso people will pay up·:

I-I ox. :i\1. JE:\'SK"': Y os, the,- will pay up ac they do in tho ca· '' of local authorih rat's. It wonld be mCLnift·:-tly unfair tha:7 a be, • rcl · hould be expc -ed to tho peril of liti (.r L t.ion bccanse it is unable to distin­gLjsh lwhv0en ..:\'s ctttle and B',s c::tttL.;.

IIox. P. J. LEAHY: The prin;ciplc of this T~ill ap~H.~ars to be gonera11,·· J.Cccpted, and docs not c·dl for anything like i1 general diccue·;ion on the motion , or :he second f{':l,ding. It i::; e~<.sPnt.~nll:~ a Comn1ittee Bill. There are Olrl(: arnend1:.wnts \.Vhich I pro­po· 0 to move in Committee, but I do not 'rid1 to rc£Pr particularly to thc•m at this rctag·e, thouzh I would like to make a few brief observations on the general question.

f.Hon . .V. Jensen.

Most people v ho understam\ anythint, about rabbits in Queensland-and, unfortunately, I. kuov raUwr too HJuch about thmn-are o! opinion tiw,t it is question vd1ether \V8

a;:o going to ha\·c sheep and cattle or ·,;·hcth_•r o ar·~\ going to haYo rabbits. 'Tho n:perienco of oth' ~ Sh;~s-:'iew South \<Yak in particu:..tr-sho"·~ tl:at wherever th~ rab:Jits have incroa:,~d tho numbPr of sto: k has gone do\Yn, and hare lutd a sin1ilar e ·poricnce. That we not suffered to the smne exh·:at in reJpect IS due to the fact t' at earlier stPns were taken to de ""1 with the pest than in the neighbourin:_, St-ate. It being admit:_cd-as it rnust bo ad­uitted-thrtt '':e cannot h'"'e both sheep anJ cattle rend ra[ bits, th·> dut;; of the GoYern­tncnt is to dcvi'd so1ne 1.1e:::uis for destroying the raLbits. So far r rny judg1ncnt and experience go, there arc rPally_ only t:\~·o offo>Jtivo methods of dealing w1th rabb1t-. Tho lirst is fencing. and the second IS

rahbit lloi .. oning. \\~e read a great deal in the TIC'\\ .::papers, and th-~re has been a greCit deal of talk in another place, about the proflt t:mt may be made ~:.~t of the rab­bit;. \\' c arP told that their skins are vcrJ valuabl", and that frc~Pn rabbits would fur­nish UR \Yith ,·ornf' variation froin our or(1i~ lH1l,Y diet, and all that sort of thing. Peopk who talk like that dn not s0em to under­stand tho conditions ·. :1ich <'Xio7 t in Qu·eons­l ,nd. It is tnJ':l tha' in the colder parts of L\u~Jralia, :dch as in portions of New South \Vale·, and in Victoria, and where thev arc verv ncar to raih·.-ay:J, it is pos­sibi~e to make some use of rabbits as an article of food. It is well known. aloo, th<>t in those cold0r plaf'""• the skin of the rabbit i:: of Innro vnluo thnn in warn1 countrit'!. and it rnay he p . .Jssih1o to 111ako 'lOn1ethin--~ out of the flc>sh nnd the ',kin of the rabbi:_; i~L thor:c pL, · : ln.J._t in +be v·ar:mer por­tions of ~,__{ (Y:~land <"'H-1 rc_rrc ~.o fron1 rail­v,·a-n .. --here tl1P rabbit, are, .any attcn1pt to :naK(~ anv US" of thoir flesh and skins would ho a mi'~tctkP. }~.s tho Han. Mr. Rar]o,. poinb··l it 1vould have a, tendency to 111ak~._~ '"I'O in for breeding rabbits,

a payiag busino' '"i \Vn

·~rt rid of tlw dv,-:t":~ h.;n e the

aJ.llOU!lt of H101lt:y

-conntrY nud in Jtlo-:.{ connection with th.

\Vhilc t!Jc Gowrn­quitf' a con idcr, hlc

r_~no'"nt, ~-(•t not bv anv Inoans eo·:tribnt.cd Dn1olint "to\vard' the dostrnoi 'on o£ thi pee t. I h.wo ah. L >]c1 tho opinion the dnt''Uctiou of ral1bi~ ~honl<l be, a na ionn.l question_ Tbe:c·o arc :1c:ople no1vada:ys who advocate tho 11atio11al isation of cvc··ything. n.nd un-tlor<btPcPy f:r stronger c !:":': could he madP ant fer i]ationalis .. ttinn of the rabbit rJueetion than fm- the nationalisation of mo t ;-:lings. \':,T( kuo\" that in th0 diJ~rict~ \,hen~ rabbits exi I; in Jorge nnmlH•r·. all the land IS o , n•-d [-, •l thf~ Crown. Surclv the fir t d'-1ty of any ]rndlorc~ j-; to prot~ct his O'.\ll

'"~'··~··h• r If I lmnc a hocJsc "·hich is threat. v, hi to ants, I ·do not exp~ct n1y

tc•nant to poison the 1.vh~te ants or do sorne­t~ling _·1~r to protuct n1y ~lr01)~;rty. But the

all aiong ha~ C'xr.-cJ:cl its tc·nant~. both lr ~ a?d gr_uinr; fnrn1ers, to find

P1' nrr nrnticn of thc- mon"' v:·hi0,h \Va

nccc ary fm- .tho of protecting the national . not b 1ame the SLtte ]'ctrricul that, because, perhaps, it.-: ftn. nciai rPSOlll't have not p~rmitted it to

Rabb~t Boll. [26 AUGUST.] Rabb~t Bill. 9i7

go a:! far as we might like. At any rate, t~at has been the P.o~itio'.' up to the present time, and that position IS to be continued If ~]~ere ~s to be any departurv from that positiOn, It ought to be in the direction of the State assu.ming u larger proportion of th" cost than It ha.> done hitherto. I have not gone very deeply into the Bill, because I may say ut oncp that from what I know of its provisions, and from conversations I have had with a number of very practical people, there can be no serious objection to tJw main provisions of the measure : but on looki~Ig over it ca-ually, I have ·found ~om<C thmg·s that r:quire attention. The Hon. Mr. Barlow said that one clause gives the Governor m Council power to discolve a board.

Hon. A. H. BARLOW: He can also " sack" any mcncb l' of a board.

HoN. P. J. LEAHY: That is so. The hon. gentleman reasoned by analogy that, l;lecau"e th, Governor can dissolve Parlia­ment, he should also have po·wer to dis­pem<c with the cervices of a board With all rcspcd to an han. gentlemun ~vith so much experience, I 'l"enture to suggest that the t"·o ca,es ate not exactly on all-fours. I do not wish for a moment to assert that the members of rabbit boards are of a higher class than members of Parliament · but they are elected lrv the people who hav~ to find the monev. The members of local authorities are also elected by the people who have to find the money for carrying on local government ;vork ; but, so far as I know-I speak snbJect to correction bv the legal members of the Council-the GovcrnD!' in Council, although be has power to dissoh·e a !?cal authority, has no power to d1spense with the services of a single member of a local authorih ; and it struck ;ne as ra~her an anomaly that the Governor m Council should take a power in this case which he has not got in the other case. The only justification for it would be if it were assumed-and I suppose it must be an under­lying assumption-that the members of local authorities are men of a higher class than the members of rabbit boards.

Han. A. H. BARLOW: That is not intended at all.

HoN. P. J. LEAHY: Well, I mention the matter now in order that it may be considered in Committee.

Han. A. G. C. HAWTHORN: That is part of the old Act.

HoN. P. J. LEAHY: Well, I do not care whether it is a part of the old Act or not. It is possible that, i£ I had had an opportunitv of speaking in this Chamber wheln the old Act was going through, I would have opposed this clause. I do not know that there is very much more that need be said at this stage. When the Bill reaches the Com­mittee stage I shall have certain amend­ments to offer. There is one thing I would like to mention, if I am in order in referring to it, ~hough I shall not specify the clause. There IS one nart of the Bill which I think does away with some existing right~. Ther~ are certain obligations with regard to fencing, and the owner of a holding in a group around which there is an external

1913-3 p

fence may not be entitled to c,•rtain privi­lege' under this Bill which he would have if his indiYidual selection were fenced. I think that must be unintentional, and, when the Bill is in Committee, I shall be prepared to mo'\"e an amendment.

Hox. A. G. C. HAWTHORN: The fact that this Bill has received the approval of tho Pastoralists' Association chows that it is one that can very well be passed by this !J:ouse. I certainly think the Bill is an Impro\ ement on tho present Act. ThPre are seyeral prm·isions which ha'l"e been found to be r~ther a. hardship in the past, and they are oemg Improved by the Bill. I cer­~ainly agree with the Hon. Mr. Leahy that It would be a mistake to permit a rabbit trade to be este blished. If we once allow the rabbit to become of commercial value we shall never get rid of rabbits in Queens: land. Already £2,000,000 has· been spent in this State in attempting to cope with the pc<t, and it is very gratif0 ing to find that ~mce 1908 there has been a large reduction m t~e _number of rabbits. Every year the rabbit mspectors report that their numbers are decreasing. Mr. Inspector Donaldson particularly, in his last report says that there were not 10 per cent. of the rabbits in 1911 that there were in 1910. There is no question that fencing has largely contributed to that result. 'Ve have also been extremelv fortunate in having a fairly long snell of dry weather in the ·western country f~llowed by considerable floods, which wiped out mil­lions of rabbits. Then, apparently from Inspector Avery's report, there se~ms to have been some epidemic which has killed large numbers. Whatever mav have brought about the result, I think the'Te is no doubt that the boundary fences have contributed very largely to the reduction, and I am very glad to see that this method of coping with this serious pest is to be continued, and I hope that there will be a large incrc·.<se in the number of subdivisional fences. The smaller the holdings the better chance there is of dealing with the pest. Fencing and the use of poison, both by carts and poisoned water. seem to be the chief means of dealing with .rabbits. There are several featureB in the Bill which I am quite sure will have a good ef_fect, more particularly the provision which gives persons obtaining netting from the Crown twenty-five years within which to pay for the netting. That is a long time, and the rate of interest is reasonable. I believe it is 4 per cent. I notice that the rabbit inspectors remark that the reduction in the number of rabbits has been accompanied by an increase in the number of dingoes. They seem to have come in swarms from the further \V estern portions of the State, where the rabbits have been thinned out, and appear to have been driven from those dis­tricts through shortness of food in the shape of rabbit.

An HoNOURABLE MEMBER: Is there any foundation for such a belief?

HoN. A. G. C. HAWTHORN: Commis­sioner Evans, in his report to the Lands De­partment, assigns that as probably one of the main ref\sons for the increase of dingoes. I see that later on we are to be asked to deal with a Bill which makes provision for the destruction of the dingo. It is rather in­teresting to read the reports of the rabbiii

Hon. A. G. C. Hawthorn.]

978 Rabbit Bill. [COUNCIL.] Marsupial Pt·ooj, £tc., Bill.

impector•, especially for those who have not had .an opportunity of seeing the \Vostern country, and who can only form their opinions from the reports of the in­spectors. On the whole, I think the Bill is a good one. It is brought down in pursuance of a promise that has been made for many Y''ars, and I trust it will be more effective than the legislation we have at present.

RoN. W. F. TAYLOR: I am informed by pastoralist friends that this Bill is very urgently r!!quircd. It is a very good Bill, and I cannot sco the necessity of deferring its operation till 1st January, 1914. Prob­ably there is some nason for it, but I should ha•,·c thought it would be much better and that it would give far greater relief to tho pastoralists if it came into force immediately it paPOed. I call attention to this mattE>r because I think it is one that wo should consider, and, if the Bill is to afford the measure of rclid which I believe it will, the sooner it becomes law and comes into operation the better.

HoN. W. H. CAJ\IPBELL: On behalf of many pastoralist friends in the Central dis­trict who are in favour of the Bill, I think this measure, with some am<:ndments, >vill meet the case. So far as the contention of the last speaker is concerned, I think it would be absurd to bring the measure into operation immediately, became the assees­ment is already levied for this year, and it will not be levied again until 1914. So far as the question of dingoes is concerned, I do not know whether the hon. gentleman who referred to them wishes to protect din­goes so that w~ may get rid of the rabbits, or protect rahb1ts so that we may keep the dingoes in dwck. I think, so far as the Southern part of Qu,Jensland is concerned, the pastoralists do not se,em to care about rabbits at all. TlH:'V do not check them. They are inside the rabbit fences, and they say that they do not do much damage; they do not do more damage in the Southern district than the kangaroos do in our dis­trict. Hmvever, we have not seen a rabbit north of the tropic, and I do not think we ever shall. It is a most curious thing to think that of all tho rabbits on those large stations none have come back to the east. All through Peak Downs and the Lcich­hardt district, which would be favourable places for breeding, being sandy, they have not been seen.

Hon. P. J. LEAHY: Have they not been ~een in the far \Vest?

Ho1-:. \Y. H. CAMPBELL: They have been kc)Jt out by the f<>nces erected in the olden day'>. Larg!Ol holdings there are de­riving· very grrat benefit from the measures that were taken when the first Act was passed, lwcause it is ,,o much easier for the large holder to net his property than the small holder. A man with 900 square miles may have only 80 miles of f<'ncing, and he can get it netted at a cost of £40 per mile, wheren.s a man who has 20,000 acres has over 20 miles to net, and that makes it much heavier. The man with 900 square mil<>s can keep 200.000 sheep, and even on the high rates at "hich the rabbit assessment has been fixed-it has been about £2 per 1,000-it onlv <costs him £400 a year. That is ahrlut '10 per cont. on the money he is in-

[Hvn. A. G. G. Hawthorn.

v0sting in the rabbit-proof fence, an~ then, in addition, ho has had an extensiOn of lea''" for an extra number of years. He has also a greater protection, b.eca~se the rabbit-net fencing helps to keep h1s own sheep inside, and bis neighbour's sheep away on the other side, and it also helps to some extent to lctecp the dogs ouLide. The man with a smaller area finds thie cpst vr,,ry ex­pensive in addition to the other sums he has to 'spend in improving and maintaining his pl'opcrty. And I think; a Bill. of t~is sort will be a great help m enablmg hnn to purchase from the GovernmJ?nt, on rea­sonable terms, netting with which . he may enclose his holding. The more holdmgs that a,·e enclosed, the more protection for the people living in the Centre and North.

Question put and passed.

The committal of the Bill was made an Order of the Day for the next sitting day.

MARSL'PIAL PROOF FENCING ACT A:;.vm:::-.JDMEX'I' BILL.

SECOND READING.

HoN. A. H. BARLOW: This Bill per­forms tho miracle of turning a dingo or undomesticated dog into a marsupial. That is the principal thing in the Bill. It is a simple Bill, and the 3rd clause applies the principle we have just been discussing, abolishes the 5 per cent. rental on netted fencing, and grants the right to pay off the purcha,·e money on certain security giv<:n to the Crown. The effect of this Bill and the Bill we have just discussed is that the landholder, inst!?ad of paying an amount as rent, pays his money and gets the benefit of the fencing as an improvement on the determination of the lease otherwise than by forfeiture. My in,tructions are to ask the Committee to negative clause 4 when we reach it. The reason for that is that the fencing which will exclude rabbits will not exclude dingoes, and there arc various other weighty reasons given for the negativing of the clausP which I will put before the Com­mittee. I think there is nothing more to say. The Bill simply applies the principle of the Bill we have just been discussing to the mahupial question, having included among marsupials the dingo. I beg to move that the Bill be no·.v read a second time.

'' HoN. P. J. LEAHY: This is a small but important Bill. I understand that in it Par­liament is to say that the dingo has been converted into a marsunial. It is ratlF~r a pity that its habits c'Juld not be altered by th,e same moans, because, to my knowledge, the dingo has proved a very destructive animal. I know of one station in the War· rego district, cercainly not more than 150 miles from Charleville, where the holder, who does not carry over 40,000 or 50,000 sheep from year to year, lost last year 12.000 from dingoes. There are certain parts of Qu<eensland at the present time where the dingo is a much more serious menace than tho rabbit i", Th!Olrefore, any­thing that helps either the large or the small man to keep down dingoes, is a measure that I am sure will meet with the heartiest goodwill of this Chamber. I understand-

Adjoumment. [26 AUGUST.] Questions. 979

and i.f I am wrong I hope the hon. gentle­man m charge of the Bill will set me right­that, if a man wishes to erect a fence to keep out marsupials, he can have the net­ting on thE. samp terms as those on which he <>an get rabbit netting. I understand, also, that he is to have the same rate of -e-xtension of hi·· lease as he would have if he ere0ted r<~bbi~ netting round his holding. If both these thmgs are in the Bill-and it ,eems to me they are-I think it is an emi­nently satisfactory measure, and a measure which will be of verv great assistance par­ticularly to the small class of landholder v, ho is not as well able to ,•tand the finan: cia! expense of netting as otheN may be. ThoF<J points have been before various ;nganisations for some time. Indeed, they nave been demanded for some considerable time, and I am glad to think that some­thing which is so universallv recognised as being the rig·ht thing should be brought before Parliament.

Question put and passed.

The committal o.f the Bill was made an Orde1' of the Day for the next sitting day.

ROMAN C,\THOLIC CHURCH LAND SALES BILL.

FIRST READD!G.

This Bill was recoived from the Assembly, 'vith a copy of the report of the Select Com­mittee to which it was referred in that Chamber, and on the motion of HoN. B. FAHEY the Bill was read a first time. The secon<:l reading as made an Order of the Day for the next sitting day.

SPECIAL ADJOUR~MENT.

lioN. A. H. BARLO\Y: I am glad to be able to release hon. gentlemen from further attendance until next Tuesday. Therp are two Bills elsewhere which are not likely to have a v£ry smooth passage. They afford in11nenfe opportunities for vote~catching, and opportunities for showing that " Codlin's your friend, and not Short." In these cir­cumstance., we shall, next Tuesday, take the Committee stages of the Bill which has been read a second time this afternoon. I therefore beg to moye that the Council, at its rising, adjourn until Tuesday next.

Question put and passed.

ADJOUR~MENT.

Hox. A. H. BARLO\Y: In moving the .adjournment of the HouPi', I rrspcetfully Tequ<JSt hon. members v.-ho intend to move amendments on tho Rabbit Bill and the Marsupial Proof Fencing Act Amendment Bill to hnve those amendments printed, and they will receiYe the most careful considera­tion of the Secretary for L:wds and his 'C nder Secretarv. I move that the Council do now adjourn.

Question put and passed.

The Council adjourned at half-past 4 .o'ol.ock.