motifs of modern apostles a review of the function and ... · edward irving of the catholic...

Motifs of Modern Apostles

A review of the function and role of apostles within

the British New Church Movement

A dissertation submitted to the University of Wales in partial fulfilment of the requirements for the degree of

M.A.in

Missional Leadership

Stewart Keiller

Springdale College

1st September 2012

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DECLARATIONThis work has not previously been accepted in substance for any degree and is not being concurrently submitted in candidature for any degree.

Signed :! ! ! ! ! ! ! (Candidate)

Date :

STATEMENT 1This thesis is the result of my own investigations, except where otherwise stated. Where correction services have been used, the extent and nature of the correction is clearly marked in a footnote(s).

Other sources are acknowledged by footnotes giving explicit references. A bibliography is appended.


Date :

STATEMENT 2I hereby give consent for my thesis, if accepted, to be available for photocopying and for inter-library load, and for title and summary to be made available to outside organisations.


Date :

ABSTRACT

This project explores the role and function of apostles in the British New Church Movement (NCM) from its roots to the current day. It identifies motifs that describe apostles of the NCM and reflects on how the apostolic nature of the NCM has changed over the last 40 years.

A literature review of relevant documentation from the NCM was undertaken, as well as other selected literature that helped to define the nature of apostles. William Kay, a major commentator in this field was interviewed and his work “Apostolic Networks in Britain” was used as a key text. Eleven leaders from the NCM were interviewed using a semi-structured interview, the results recorded and categorised. An online questionnaire was designed to gain a current church members understanding of apostles in the NCM.

Apostolic motifs were assimilated from the literature review, these were categorised as follows: Leadership Motifs, including visionary, strategist, builder, foundations and teaching truth; Community Motifs, including fathering, shepherding, teams; Action Motifs, including entrepreneur, church planter, missionary, pioneer; Authority Motifs, including governmental, power & control, signs & wonders, spheres of influence and unity & city transformation.

These motifs were investigated through the semi-structured interview and online questionnaire. The spiritual nature of the apostle was emphasised above the functional aspects of their role. It became apparent that each apostle has a mandate from God to operate in their calling. The character or ‘personality’ of the apostle determines their function, and although there are some common motifs between apostles, they are not the same in their calling or sphere of operation.

In the early days of the NCM the motif areas of ‘Action’ and ‘Authority’ had greater emphasis than they do today. It appears that the need within the contemporary NCM is for the ‘Leadership’ and ‘Community’ motifs, particularly visionary fathers offering strategic support.

The findings show a shift in perspective and emphasis within the NCM on the role and nature of apostles. It also highlights some areas for future research and potential trends for the future role of apostles within the NCM.

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I dedicate this work to the raising up of the next generation of leaders for the church in Great Britain.

I am grateful to my supervisor Richard Roberts for his wisdom and guidance in this project, and to the staff and team of Springdale College, under the leadership of Martin Robinson, who work to see leaders raised up in this nation.

My thanks to the leaders that gave up their time to be interviewed as part of my study, I hope that this contribution helps in our ongoing development.

My thanks to Trinity College, Bristol and Bath University for the use of their library resources.

CONTENTS

! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Page

Chapter 1: Introduction! ! ! ! ! ! ! 6! !

Chapter 2: Literature Review! ! ! ! ! ! 8

Chapter 3: Research Methodology ! ! ! ! ! 29

Chapter 4: Research Findings! ! ! ! ! ! 33

Chapter 5: Discussion of Findings!! ! ! ! ! 57

Chapter 6: Conclusions! ! ! ! ! ! ! 86

Bibliography! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! 90

Appendix A : Bryn Jones, Hallmarks of the apostle and his ministry! 95

Appendix B : Post - Apostolic view of apostles! ! ! ! 96

Appendix C : William Kay interview! ! ! ! ! 97

Appendix D : Interviews with Church Leaders! ! ! ! 98

Appendix E : Westminster Declaration! ! ! ! ! 133

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Chapter 1: Introduction

Being part of the British new church movement (NCM) most of my adult life I wanted to appraise one of the key roles within it, that of the apostle. Leading a significant UK church in the NCM has meant that understanding the historic and current role of the apostle is of great interest and meaning to the missional life of the church. In this study I will create a list of criteria by which to investigate the nature of apostles within the NCM and reflect on these criteria with leaders of the current new church movement and a wider interested group.

The NCM has a number of source materials from which to draw upon which I have been able to do in my literature review. The views of the major players have been expressed in articles and books on the subject, coupled with the rise of interest in this field in North America means that there are a number of attitudes to the nature of the role of apostles that are well documented. However, it became apparent from my own experience in church life that the use of the term apostle had, in the main, been dropped from our church vocabulary. Movements seem to be very cautious in using the title of apostle, and even in discussions on the subject at leadership level there is a hesitancy. There is subsequently very little written by the current crop of leaders of the NCM.

There are two key works on the history of the NCM, Andrew Walker’s ‘Restoring the Kingdom’ and William Kay’s ‘Apostolic Networks in Britain’. I decided to use these as the starting point of my study, drawing on their analysis. I was able to interview William Kay (Appendix B) and was able to draw on his reflections for my study. From my contacts I was able to interview eleven current or past leaders of some of the streams who represented the groups that Kay identified. I also wanted to hear from a more general population group about their ideas and attitudes to apostles, so I constructed an online survey.

My research motivations were to find out what the actual current NCM leader’s attitudes were to apostles, whether or not the topic was still in vogue, whether leaders had discarded the idea altogether or whether the historic use and subsequent abuse of the term had meant that leaders had conveniently removed it from the leadership vocabulary. I was also interested to find out what church members felt about the function and role of

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an apostle; was it at all relevant to the modern life of the church? My aim is to present a view about the predominant criteria to describe apostles in the NCM.

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Chapter 2: Literature Review

In this section I have investigated authors within the NCM and other writers with a useful contribution to make to the subject of apostles. I have summarised the broad conclusions from my literature review.

2.1 New Church Movement

It is worth undertaking a brief definition and description of the NCM, which is also called ‘The House Church Movement’ and ‘Restorationism’. I have broadly adhered to the definitions given by Andrew Walker in his book ‘Restoring the Kingdom’ and William Kay in his book ‘Apostolic Networks’. Both present a fascinating indepth history and analysis of the NCM.

The re-discovery of the role of the apostle was, however, to form a major tenet of what became known as a theology of Restoration, epitomised by the magazine ‘Restoration’1, which became a clarion call for this new wave of theology. Kay says

the logic of Restoration is an all-or-nothing logic. Restorationists cannot argue for the partial renewal of the work of the Holy Spirit but must, to be consistent, argue for everything that the Spirit gives and inspires.2

In essence Restoration was about the restoration of all that God intended for His church and relied on getting back to the mandate in the New Testament, hence the rediscovery of the office of the apostle as a key part of the formation of church life.

Rodman Williams 3, a pentecostal theologian, references the restorationist attempts by Edward Irving of the Catholic Apostolic Church in the nineteenth century, an offshoot of the Scottish Presbyterians, as an earlier example of an attempt to re-imagine the modern role of an apostle. Kay traces the theology of modern apostles back to the Apostolic Church, a

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1 Restoration Magazine was published by Harvestime which later became part of CMI. It is now out of print but back copies can be bought at http://www.davidmatthew.org.uk

2 Kay (2007)

3 Williams (1996)

branch of the Pentecostal movement, rooted in Wales. This movement was strong where Bryn Jones, one of the original founders of the NCM, grew up. Andrew Walker 4 suggests that Arthur Wallis and David Lillie have connections with leaders of the Apostolic Church. This early twentieth century group believed:

the apostle is the gift of the ascended Christ, and each apostle is equal in calling and authority...every assembly is to be under the care of an apostle..every area is to be under the jurisdiction of the Apostles in the area5.

Although there is no evidence to suggest that the NCM apostles adopted the articles of an historic church group, there is some remarkable similarity to the way in which the networks formed out of the various apostles. As the NCM developed there were those called ‘the London brothers’ which included Gerald Coates, John Noble; the northern churches under the leadership of Bryn Jones and his brother Keri Jones; the south east group led by Terry Virgo and the southern group from Southampton led by Tony Moreton. These groups certainly were geographically based.6

It is significant to the nature of apostles that very early on in the movement, pre 1980 people would understand that they were aligned with or ‘covered’ by an individual apostle, who was probably leading a team, ‘to be under authority was seen to be in relatedness to apostles and their appointed elders’7. There were no well worked out doctrines of collaboration at this time; the apostles were all in relationship with each other but operated from their local churches.

John Noble, one of the original ‘magnificent seven’ as they were later known, wrote a book ‘First Apostles Last Apostles’ which introduced the theme strongly into the restoration

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4 Walker (1998)

5 The Apostolic Church, pub Apostolic Publications 1961

6 When I moved 24 years ago from Winchester (a Tony Moreton, Cornerstone Church) to Bath (a Bryn Jones, Harvestime Church) my wife and I realised that by crossing from one geographical place to another we were crossing a tribal divide with a different set of cultures although a similar theological framework.

7 Walker (1998) p78

scene in 1971.8 The London brothers, of which Noble 9 was one, had been developing their ideas and were accused of an over emphasis on apostleship. Eventually, because of to the growth in the apostles’s ministries and success in planting or adopting churches, the networks organised themselves in teams to facilitate their growth.10

There was a well documented split between what Walker called R1(the more structured networks of Jones, Virgo and Moreton) and R2 (Noble, Coates and Forster). The issues that split the NCM do not seem to be about the role or nature of the apostle, although there was some documented conflict between Noble and Jones about the need for the apostolic gatherings to have some headship and probably who that should be.11 I will discuss the issues of hierarchy and power later. Britain was not isolated in its development of the idea of apostles, ‘Restorationism in the UK was part of a much larger movement around the world’12 and leaders like Ern Baxter (USA) had a huge influence on the movement, although Jones would deny his influence in their thinking on things apostolic.13

Arthur Wallis 14, the grandfather of the NCM, set out the thinking about the apostle in an article in Restoration Magazine (later published in a book ‘Apostles Today’):

we need to see these men as primarily those who brought the word of revelation and direction into the living situations where God was building his church...Jesus was constantly telling men that he was ‘sent’ by the Father. He continually lived and moved and ministered in the consciousness of his commission from heaven. That is the heart of apostleship.

The emerging apostolic emphasis of the NCM was not thought to be a reworking of a previous ecclesiastical structure or an imbibed theology of another stream; rather it was

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8 Kay (2007) p241

9 Walker (1998) p91

10 Walker (1998) p116

11 Walker (1988) p96

12 Walker (1988) p94

13 Walker (1988) p84

14 Matthews (1988) p15-16

seen as a discovery of hidden truths for the growth of the church in the New Testament. The revelation of the apostolic ministry as a sincere response to the growing theology of Restoration; the leaders of the day sought to work it out in their ministries and churches. William Kay15 comments ‘Apostolic gifts are historically therefore an expression of restorationist theology and are not the product of power struggles within denominational hierarchies. Moreover apostolic gifts are seen as intended to produce congregations.’ Kay hits an important note in his appraisal of the emergence of apostolic ministry; they exist as a means of ensuring the church remains vibrant and fruitful, they are a gift of God to ensure the growth of the church, to see the church restored to its full glory. Jones16 described this life flow that comes from the apostolic ministry ‘experientially, every emerging church needs to be in living fellowship with Christ and with the continuing apostolic and prophetic ministry, apostles are there to connect the church back to Christ. It is important to remember in any study of this movement that its foundations were an earnest expression of a deep desire to find God’s way for a church that had been floundering in the UK. At the time Anglicanism had small pockets of renewal but no real movement; Pentecostalism had broadly got entrenched within its structure; and there were little other signs of ‘spirit life’ among the other denominations. The UK needed a new move of the Spirit. Groups of people and even whole churches begun to encounter a fresh experience of the Holy Spirit almost simultaneously and without connection. The leaders of those groups discovered each other, and began to minister in the small churches meeting in homes; there was no structure, it was relational.17

Wallis went on to classify three types of apostles : Jesus, the twelve and the ‘Ephesians 4’ post-pentecost group. This was an attempt to counter the strong criticism from evangelical quarters, and to lay out a biblical foundation for the apostle’s function. Terry Virgo18, from good evangelical stock, describes his reaction to the idea that apostles may exist today:

I was amazed one day when I heard some men discussing the role of apostles in the church and even wondering if they were themselves apostles. I must confess that I was

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15 Kay (2006)

16 Jones (1999)

17 My own church in Bath, founded in a flat in 1969, was influenced by different leaders in the early days (e.g. Dave Mansell and Gerald Coates) before being linked to Bryn Jones; and grew hugely from a few people to a vibrant City church.

18 Terry Virgo, No Well Worn Paths (2001) Kingsway, Eastbourne

somewhat scandalised that they should even consider such things possible...Bryn Jones and have suggested that I ought to consider forming a team to help me with the growing number of churches that I was serving.

He of course came round to the idea, and has arguably become the most ardent advocate of the role and function of the apostle. His network has operated in a very consistent manner and become one of the largest networks.

William Kay19 presents a good summary of what the NCM believed about apostles. They:• are being raised up by God today• are church planters and/or master builders• act foundationally though Christ himself is the foundation of all an apostle builds• are not necessarily wonderful preachers but have the ability to fit human relationships

together so that congregations flourish spiritually• carry particular authority, though this is expressed in and through personal relationships

rather than by virtue of rank• have the right to appoint elders• travel and acquire experience enabling them to detect the strengths and weaknesses of

congregations• may work with prophets and often in teams

Before I leave this rather brief summary of attitudes to apostles in the developing NCM, it is worth noting that although the infamous split which Walker classified into R1 and R2 was not over the issue of apostles. However, the nature and function of leadership and church government became a feature of the two different wings of the movement. I am sure that the robust round table conversations teased out differences of opinion, but in themselves were never enough to split the group. Women in leadership also became a feature; R1 (Jones, Virgo, Moreton) not allowing any women to take eldership functions and R2 (Coates, Noble, Forster) embracing the idea that women could be elders in their own right, and possibly apostles. The networks in R1 were more exclusive, you were either in or out; whereas there was a more fluid relational nature to R2. However a key feature pertinent to this study was the ‘governmental expectations’ 20 or the ‘rule of

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19 Kay (2007) p241

20 Kay (2007) p236

apostles’. I will address this issue in more detail later but suffice to say R1 adopted a more hierarchical, almost bishop like, structure where the apostles were at the top of the pyramid, R2 apostles adopted a less hierarchical approach. Even within R1 there were different expressions of this governmental design. Keri Jones would lead with a very strong sense of command over his churches whereas Terry Virgo would be more team oriented and Tony Moreton had a lighter touch still.

2.2 Biblical Understanding

Critical to Restoration theology is biblical integrity, the ‘experience of the Holy Spirit’ has been its most visible feature. It was Wallis, a sigmificant theologian and teacher, who set out a basis for the biblical foundation for the current role of the apostle. The starting point was Jesus as the Apostle (Heb 3:1); Jesus sets the tone and nature of the apostolic call. Rodman Williams21 (a Pentecostal theologian) says : ‘Since Jesus is ‘the apostle’, all others who are called apostles derive their position and authority from him.’ David Devenish22, a longstanding part of Terry Virgo’s team says of Jesus ‘he was the Messiah, the One supremely sent to accomplish our redemption from sin and the restoration of everything lost through the fall and its effect on the whole of creation’. The apostolic mandate is about being sent for a purpose, Jesus’ purpose was the restoration of all things. John Noble23 adds ‘It is significant, and seldom noted, that Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession never planted a local church, but created a mobile, apostolic team.’ Noble is not trying to suggest that apostles should not plant churches, but rather make us reflect that the essential nature or motif of the apostolic ministry is rooted in the ministry of Jesus.

All the NCM leaders would have appreciated that special place of the twelve apostles, they were all orthodox in their Christian belief. Max Turner 24 comments that the NCM ‘distinguishes two types of ‘apostles of Christ’ in the Early Church’, the ‘apostles of the Lamb’ (Rev 21:14, the twelve plus Paul) and the ‘apostles of the Ascension’.

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21 Williams (

22 Devenish (2001) p27

23 Noble (2002) p90

24 Max Turner, ‘Ecclesiology In The Major ‘Apostolic’ Restorationist Churches In The United Kingdom,’ Vox Evangelica 19 (1989): 83-108.

The latter group is seen as potentially open..the former group alone had the authoritative role as guarantors and canonical interpreters of the Gospel.

This emphasise that there were apostles other than the original twelve. These men, and one woman, form the known group who variously are called apostles; Virgo25 says ‘they were not witnesses of His resurrection but gifts of His ascension’. Michael Harper26 drawing on the work of Vincent Taylor distinguishes four groups of apostles: Jerusalem apostles (the twelve), the apostles of Antioch (Paul, Barnabas & Silas) who supervised the gentile churches, apostles with local assignments (like Andronicus and Junias) and those that performed apostolic ministries without being expressly called apostles (Timothy and Titus). Barney Coombes, another apostle of the early days of the NCM, helpfully points out that the 70 that were sent in Luke 10 ‘are sort of apostoles (verb ‘apostello’)’27 reinforcing the idea that the function of the apostle was a continuing role in the development of the early church. (For a short summary of research into post-apostolic writing see appendix B)

This leads us to the key scripture in Restoration theology about the role and nature of apostles, Ephesians 4:11-13. It is from this scripture that the argument is made for the continuance of the gift of the apostle. The apostle, like the other Ephesians 4 ministries is given to ‘equip’ the church. Rumble 28 says:

Every Greek doctor will equip by putting a bone back into its correct relationship with the other members of the body...the equipping of the saints is the proper integration of the particular parts for a complete organism.

Equipping is a function essential the well being of the church. Coombs29 says they ‘equip the church to function apostolically...he would be expected to teach, correct and advise

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25 Devenish (2011) p 27 Quoting New Frontiers Magazine Issue 04 2003 p8

26 Davies (1986) from Michael Harpur, Let my people Grow, (1977) Hodder

27 Coombs (1996) p21

28 Rumble (1996)

29 Coombs (1996) p24

apostles-in-training,’ it is about serving the local church body. Lyne30 picks up this theme ‘the apostolic ministry is always about giving away, not grabbing.’ The function of equipping is to bring a maturity to the church, a growing up! It is important from Ephesians 4 to understand that although there are functions and roles that are part of the apostle’s job description it is personality of the apostle that is key. Williams31 says :

these ministries are sovereign grants from the ascended and reigning Christ for the equipping of the church...the gifts (domata) are persons...the gifts are limited in nature.. unlike charismata gifts in which all believers participate...these equipping ministries are necessary to the continuing life of the church’.

The apostle is a grace gift, and grace is essential for the operating of the apostle. Virgo32 expounds on this theme in an article in Restoration magazine, highlighting that it is grace that is essential to do the job, and Jones33 expounds the need for depth in character of the apostle; virtues of holiness, faithfulness, compassion and patience as well as operating in signs and wonders and visionary action.

2.3 Apostolic Motifs

What becomes clear from my literature review was that themes emerge to describe the role and function of the apostle, I have termed them apostolic motifs. I have grouped these motifs around Leadership, Community, Action and Authority, and below they are discussed.

Leadership Community Action Authority

Visionary Fathering Entrepreneur Governmental

Strategist Shepherding Church Planter Power & Control

Builder Teams Missionary Signs & Wonders

Foundations Pioneer Spheres of Influence

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30 Lyne (1999) p57

31 Williams, (1996) p165

32 Matthews (1988)

33 Matthews (1988) p101

Leadership Community Action Authority

Teaching Truth Unity & City Transformation

Motif : Leadership

Visionary

McNeal34 says the apostle is ‘visionary, their efforts are energized by a vision of a preferred future’ and Greenslade35 calls an apostle an ‘Eye-opener’, someone who is broadening not only their horizons but also casting a new horizon for others. The early pioneers of the NCM would use the language of prophetic vision; Barney Coombs36 challenges us to awaken prophetic vision in our churches, it is why the early teams would recognise the need for the prophets to minister alongside the apostles. Ephesians 2:20 tells us that the church is founded on the apostles and prophets, so the working of the prophets alongside the apostles to bring the word of the Lord is seen as critical to the effective leadership of the church. Wagner 37, albeit from an American perspective, comments:

Apostles who receive the word of the Lord translate it into a concrete vision and announce to their followers that it is what the Spirit is saying to the churches for this time and place, thus opening the way for powerful ministry.’ 38

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34 McNeal (2003) p120

35 Greenslade

36 Coombs (1996) p74

37 Wagner (2000) p34

38 I have drawn from North American writers in my research to help bring clarity to the motifs that I discovered. However, I would not want to assert in any way that these writers influenced the early NCM leaders, but as relatively little is written by current leaders of the NCM, the North American body of literature is helpful as it has probably influenced or at least informed current leaders.

Strategist

Noble 39 says ‘Apostles bring order out of chaos’ and then as Jones 40 says they have ‘the complete picture of what is being built and the overall strategy for building it’ . Framing the plan of God as something that is workable on the ground seems to be a skill most associated with the apostle. The North American missiologist Alan Roxburgh 41 adds the missional urgency to the role:

This is a leader who can turn dreams into deeds. Like a building constructed according to a blueprint, the apostle longs to turn outlined images and dreams into concrete reality.

Greenslade 42 calls an apostle a ‘troubleshooter’ and ‘doorkeeper’ no doubt because they were always dealing with issues in the churches and setting the direction of the ministry. Jones43 relates the role of the apostle as an architect contextualising issues and ensuring that people get a bigger picture.

Builder

Hugh Thompson 44, another contributor to Restoration magazine, compared the role of the apostle to Nehemiah, a builder of walls. Using the 1 Cor 3:10 scripture about Paul being a ‘master builder’ most of the NCM leaders would see this as a key task, building something. Jones 45 says ‘the apostle is the first builder on site as well as the architect of the completed structure’. Noble 46 says:

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39 Noble (2002) p69

40 Matthews (1988) p45

41 Roxburgh (2005) p172 ; Roxburgh represents a recent tranche of American writers who are looking at apostolic ministry in a new way. see footnote 39

42 Greenslade

43 Matthews (2008) p105


45 Kay (2007) p248

46 Noble (2002) p69

Apostles or master-builders bring together the diverse skills required for construction to begin. They have an overview of the house, which is necessary if the different gifts are to work in harmony.

Wallis 47 emphasises the nature of the building as people; they are concerned for the relational harmony and experience of the people that make up the church.

Foundation

Wagner48 says ‘a church without active apostles and prophets is a church with an incomplete foundation’ , they are essential to active working of effective church life. As both the apostle and prophet are gifts of a person, the foundation must be the very people rather than the gift they carry. Foundations are not really a matter of knowledge of scripture or church heritage; rather as Kay 49 points out, they need to be based on ‘friendship and revelation’. When the foundations of the church get removed from a relational context the consequence is subsidence and the edifice that has been constructed teeters. Kay 50 goes on to observe:

what is impressive about Salt & Light51.. is the overall stability of the entire operation. The same people have been working in its churches, sometimes in multiple capacities for many years

This is entirely due to the relational context with which Barney Coombs structured his team.

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48 Peter Wagner, Apostles of the City, (2000) Wagner Pub

49 Kay (2007) p248

50 Kay (2007) p97

51 Salt & Light is the network that Barney Coombes created.

Teaching Truth

Terry Virgo 52 would be one of the most articulate on the role of the apostle in handling and teaching truth, doctrine and insight into the scriptures. Jones 53 describes the need for ‘an understanding of and ability to communicate to others the mysteries of Christ’ and 54 ‘apostles and prophets will by their ministry of Word and spirit, keep the church pure and progressing to fullness’ ; Culver 55 comments of the founders of the church, that they were its first teachers. Jones’ successor Dufty 56 talks about stewarding divine revelation, whereas Tony Moreton 57 articulates that:

God has not ordained expository nor even explosive teaching, but exemplary teaching - the apostles were living examples of their message. They practices what they preached and preached only what they practiced.

Motif : Community

Fathering

Barney Coombs 58 dedicates four chapters of his book on apostles to the need for the apostle to be first and foremost a father. There is a ‘difference between the use of father as a title, and the existence of a fathering relationship with people in the church... it may not be that all apostles are spiritual fathers, but it would seem essential that anyone forming an apostolic team would carry the conviction that God had called him to be a father’. Commenting on Coombs, Kay 59 suggests that Coombs introduces the idea that apostles should be spiritual fathers to their teams, it should be a team relationship based

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52 Matthews (1988)


54 Jones (1999)

55 Culver, p135

56 From an unpublished article by Gareth Dufty


58 Coombs (1996) p95

59 Kay (2007) p248

on secure fathers not on the task to be performed. Many writers echo the same idea, for example McElroy 60:

Apostles represent the fatherhood of God over the church. Wherever true apostles go, they bring a relational anointing and the wisdom of God to build up the church in love, unity and mutual respect.

Noble 61 would demand that being a father is foundational to faith as it brings identity, security, encouragement, discipline, release, wisdom, parenthood and discipleship. Some modern observers will feel uncomfortable at the use of the male term ‘father’, Dave Tomlinson 62 picks up on this concern and reflects on the idea that the apostle is like a nursing mother 63 expressing covering as a parents care for her children. Fathering should be inherently releasing; McElroy 64 says fathers are to form and release individuals into apostolic teams, to be spiritual fathers and mothers, and to keep the church on a relational foundation. Terry Virgo 65 sees the apostle’s role as a fatherly one which is more directive initially but becomes increasingly advisory. Some commentators, such as Mohabir 66, dislike the parental feel and see the apostolic more as a trainer or coach or mentor.

ShepherdingThe doctrine of covenanted relationships is fairly well integral to a Restoration theology. Walker 67 says ‘a disciple is one who shares a common life with others of like mind and heart’ which leads to the idea not just of the apostle being a shepherd, but the movement becoming synonymous with shepherding. An early study by Thurman 68 on the NCM said:

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60 McElroy (2006) p108

61 Noble (2002) p118


63 Tomlinson uses the verse 1 Thess 2:7

64 McElroy (2006)

65 David Matthew, Restoration History, from his website

66 Mohabir (2003)

67 Walker (1998)

68 Thurman (1982) p62

It is never intended there should be any critical or dictatorial methods used - the process of shepherding as this is known, is described as a deepening of relationships.

Walker 69 observed that shepherding had two main effects, it made ecclesiastical formality more relational and paternal, but it also brought with it increase influence and control by the leaders into the lives of those being shepherded. Roy Peacock70 offered a fairly detailed study of the movement in the light of shepherding.

Teams

Jones 71 says ‘people are the sign of an apostolic ministry’ so working in team was essential to the NCM72. Jones73 quotes William A C Rowe ‘apostolic ministry is not a flash of brilliant individualism, it is always glorious teamwork’, the purpose of 74 ‘teams are to aid effectiveness, not restrict it’. Jones’ 75 vision of apostolic teams are catalytic, he uses the illustration of the apostle being the hub for spokes to fit into, they are as Tomlinson 76 was to write ‘a strategy for corporate maturity’ he saw the formation of team as the most significant step forward for the church to come to maturity, in a time when most churches were led by one person. Bryn Jones 77 believed that progress in the church was reliant on the emergence of apostolic teams, only then would the church be able to fulfill the global harvest, teams were not just a convenient structure. Coombes 78 said the apostle grasped the essential need to work in partnership and team, the harvest needs many people not just a few special people.

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69 Walker (1998)

70 Peacock (1988)

71 Matthews (1988) p53 quoting Bryn Jones

72 Walker suggests that teams are essential to Restoration theology

73 Matthews (1988) p101 (apostolic publications 1988)

74 Matthews (1988) quoting Dave Tomlinson


76 Matthews (1988) p121

77 Matthews (1988) p139

78 Coombs (1996) p92

Motif : Action

Entrepreneur

The entrepreneurial language around the role of the apostle is probably a more recent addition to the descriptors used of apostolic ministry, McNeal 79 says they are ‘entrepreneurial, taking calculated risks’; whereas Virgo 80 and Jones81 would use the language of breaking new ground, but essentially they are the same. Jones 82 goes on to say of them that they are ‘wise men of action’ who should ‘Advance! Advance! Advance!’ I like Greenslade’s 83 approach, he calls the apostle a ‘trailblazer’. McNeal 84 points out that apostolic leaders essentially concern themselves with growth and learn from culture and business, which was certainly true of Bryn Jones. He was very well read in a wide range of matters and drew heavily from what he saw around him. Roxburgh 85 criticises the ‘superhero’ idea of an apostle as the great entrepreneur with the grand plan. His emphasis is rather more of a spiritually connected leader who understands what God is doing in the people. He is attempting to argue against the idea that the apostle is a CEO, which is what would have resonated with the early NCM leaders. They would have agreed with Roxburgh that their focus is primarily spiritual. Tomlinson 86 puts it simply ‘apostles are concerned that people don’t just sit theorising over the words of the prophets but that they actually act upon them’.

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79 McNeal (2003)

80 Matthews (1988)

81 Jones (1999)


83 Greenslade

84 McNeal (2003)

85 Roxburgh (2005)


Church Planter

Kay 87 would not simply want to define apostles as church planters, he recognises that their main emphasis is to break ‘cherished religious ivory towers’. Virgo88, who developed New Frontiers into a church planting movement, describes the principal task of an apostle as a church planter giving clarity of identity to the rapid multiplication of new believers. Kay 89 considers that the apostle is gifted to plant and design new churches. Perhaps the task is summarised as the release of ‘an army of apostles who can work alongside churches...and plant fresh churches’90

Missionary/Pioneer

The vast majority of the church ceased to use the term apostle but likes the word ‘missionary’; and if that missionary was successful then they may be given an honourary title such as Hudson Taylor : ‘apostle to China’. Virgo91 doesn’t like the word missionary; he thinks it obscures the definition of apostles, since a missionary may just create mission posts rather than churches. Lyne 92 would say that the words ‘mean in effect the same thing but the words have changed their meaning hugely’ and perhaps in a general sense, says Davies 93 ‘missionaries, ambassadors and messengers have continued the apostolic work’ ever since the original twelve. Perhaps the word Pioneer is better, and it is this which Gerald Coates was to adopt as his network name; and Virgo was to embrace the spirit of it in New Frontiers: being on the edge, leading the church to greater heights. Torres 94 says ‘apostles are spiritual frontiersmen...they expand our spiritual horizons and release us from spiritual boundaries and limitations of tradition and past experience.’

23

87 Kay (2007) p37

88 Terry Virgo, Apostles & Church Leaders, www.terryvirgo.org

89 Kay, W. K. (2006) ‘Apostolic Networks and Mission’. Journal of the European Pentecostal Theological Association, 26 (2), 156-167

90 Matthews (1988), Dave Tomlinson

91 Kay (2006) quoting website

92 Lyne (1999)

93 Davies (1986)

94 Torres (2001)

http://www.terryvirgo.org


It is not surprising that Virgo95 becomes the most passionate about mission, he argues that greatest significance for the modern role of the apostle is to fulfill world mission. Roxburgh 96 summarises the essential role of apostles and mission:

a missional church will have at its center an apostolic identity and an apostolic leadership..the apostle’s passion and single-minded focus on turning God’s community into a people of action around the missio dei.

Motif : Authority

Governmental

Kay97 comments on the success of Salt & Light because their style of apostles were governmental but not dictatorial, which leads us into one of the key areas of conflict and concern surrounding the NCM attitude to the governmental authority of any individual apostle. The leaders of the movement understood a degree of spiritual authority that they possessed as apostles. Dave Tomlinson says ‘authority in the church is spiritual in nature, not organisational, ecclesiastical or official..it is very much tied up with relationship’. Keri Jones98 who was later to be highly criticised for his hierarchical approach to leadership says ‘pyramids belong to Egypt not Israel..scripturally there can be no papal throne among them’. The current Bethel USA idea of apostolic authority helps us to understand where the NCM leaders were originally coming from, Danny Silk99 says:

The apostle will make the presence of God, the worship of God, and the agenda of Heaven the top priorities ....an apostolic government is designed to protect these priorities.

24

95 Kay (2006), see also Terry Virgo, Are there Apostles today?, www.terryvirgo.org

96 Roxburgh (2005) p172

97 Kay (2007) p97

98 Matthews (1988) p149

99 Silk (2009)



The way in which this spiritual view of local church governance is worked out is where the contention starts. Kay100 holds that the plurality of eldership in mutual submission is the backbone of the Restoration movement; each church in connection with an apostle. Clearly the NCM leaders were trying to refresh the local structures of church government. Jones101 decried an eldership/episcopal lock down, ‘in place of apostles and prophets have come archbishops, cardinals, bishops, and executive boards’; and Virgo 102, with echoes of Winston Churchill, points to democracy as being the safest form of church government if there is no anointing. Tomlinson103 tried to get at the heart of the issue by identifying that the men of authority need to be recognised by the church; the apostles needed to act like parents, they are there for the wellbeing of the people. I think that Tomlinson was articulating a relational paradigm of government; something that seems to have been left unformed in the thinking of the NCM or at least forgotten in its growth. Barney Coombs104 articulates the very practical nature of the apostolic government, apostles are there so the church leadership avoids arguments, delegates and confronts issues; and Peter Lyne 105 emphasises the giving of authority not the taking, leaving the control with the local church.

Power & Control

The governmental issue throws up a debate on the fundamental nature of what power the apostle carries and what control they may exert over the people. Noble106 puts power back in a spiritual context:

The Apostolic power and anointing of the gospel flows from Jesus to his delegated leaders and is released through a vibrant, healthy, active body.

25

100 Kay (2007) p248

101 Jones (1999)

102 Matthews (1988) p38

103 Matthews (1988) p32

104 Coombs (1996) p64

105 Lyne (1999)

106 Noble (2002) p71

Kay 107 believes that Virgo saw the restoration of apostles as the most visible feature of the NCM, he observed they melded the idea of apostolic authority and shepherding into one idea rather than separate doctrines and that this was ‘the unique hall mark of restorationism’. Kay effectively highlights that the control mechanism for apostles is the development of shepherding to control the sheep! Alan Hirsch108 critiques this form of dictatorial leadership as disempowering the people. He feels that positional authority is irrelevant and it is moral or spiritual authority that matters. In Max Turner’s 109 thesis he makes the observation that:

where the concept of apostolic rule (on the basis of delegated authority) has not predominated, and the charismatic character of the whole congregation come more fully to be recognized, there has been an increasing tendency for the apostles to see themselves more as servants of the church

and so less controlling. Tidball110 comments on the apostle Paul making himself scum; and Rumble 111 puts the apostle as banging a drum on a slave ship, keeping a beat so that the ship can steer in the right direction. Like in all forms of leadership, serving must be the predominant antidote to the abuse of power.

Signs & Wonders

Much is made, especially in North America, of one of the signs of an apostle are signs and wonders. Kay112 reaches the conclusion that ‘signs and wonders are not essential and apostolic authority is best compared to parental authority in that it continues indefinitely over congregations planted by the apostle.’ Tomlinson 113 asks whether they are essential

26

107 Walker (1998)

108 Hirsch


110 Tidball (1999) p123

111 Rumble (1996)

112 Kay (2007) p248

113 Matthews (1988) p27

and concludes that they are not. Jones 114 very much held to the notion that the supernatural dimension must be evident in the life of the apostle; and Coombs 115 saw the miraculous in a risk taking context; however there is not much evidence that they prioritised signs and wonders as essential to the validation of an apostle.

Spheres of Influence

Kay116 considers that the essential idea of an apostle ‘springs out of a deep personal encounter with God...the apostolic anointing is given or the apostolic task this is a supernatural matter’ ; and Coombs117 says that their ‘lives can not be explained apart from the power of God’. Virgo118 early on worked out that the church would become mature as apostles learn to submit to one another and recognise the spheres that each work in and the gifts they bring. Although the separation of the London brothers from the rest was over a disagreement, when Virgo and Moreton parted from the northern group it was out of recognition and honour for the gift. Wagner119 has made a huge impact in this area of apostolic spheres; he identifies a whole number of spheres that apostles work within: ecclesiastical, functional, geographical, vertical, horizontal and market place; his analysis is fairly full. To some extent it is common sense that ‘an apostle needs a sphere to operate in’120

Unity & City Transformation

One of John Noble’s121 passions as an apostle is:‘together with all the other ministries, (he) will facilitate unity with diversity, bridging the gap between different personalities, cultures and church traditions’ he sees that the primary goal as unity. Wagner122 later

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114 Matthews (1988) p52

115 Coombs (1996) p79

116 Kay (2007) p248

117 McNeal (2003)

118 Matthews (1988)

119 Matthews (1988)

120 Matthews (2008)

121 Noble (2002) p78

122 Wagner (2000) City

develops this theme of unity into a city transformation agenda, asserting that divine government can not happen unless the apostles are in their right place within a city.

2.4 Summary of the Literature Review

The literature has presented a series of motifs that create a picture of the diverse ways in which apostolic ministries have presented themselves. Often the emphasis of the individual apostle reflects his idea as to what the function of the apostle is. Perhaps the personality of the individual apostle determines their contribution and style of operating. The research will attempt to examine further these motifs.

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Chapter 3: Research Methodology

My literature review produced a number of ideas which needed further investigation. I decided that an interview with William Kay would be of great benefit as his research had formed a basis for some of the background to my study. I also wanted to test the current attitudes of leaders in the NCM so undertook a cross sectional study to illicit their understanding and views. I was also interested in a more general attitude to apostles from a general church going population.

3.1 William Kay interview

I decided to use William Kay’s work ‘Apostolic Networks in Britain’ as a key text for launching this study because it was the most comprehensive study of the NCM. I was able to get a skype interview with Kay where we discussed a number of topics that he suggested should be explored subsequently to the writing of his book. I undertook this interview before starting my semi-structured interviews with other leaders so it would inform some of the questions that I would ask.

The full notes of this Interview are found Appendix B

3.2 Semi-Structured Interview

In order to achieve my objectives I designed a structured interview which I conducted with network leaders of the NCM, some still in active leadership and others in retirement.

My aim was to • Assess the current attitude and priority given to the role of apostles in today’s NCM• Detect any changes in attitude of some of the founding fathers of the NCM• Identify what they saw as the predominant motif for the apostolic function• Gain insight into their perception about the future functioning of the apostolic

From the themes that I identified in the literature review I constructed a set of questions.

A full list of the questions can be found in the results of the semi-structured interviews at

Appendix B. 29

However the issues I explored were:1. In their own words a definition of an apostle in order to understand the primary motif

2. A sense of the networks view and to see if the network view has changed3. Their view of an apostles authority and where the apostle fits in church government

4. Specifically how they see the motif of Fathering5. A perception of the strengths and weaknesses of the new church movement

6. Any external forces that may have influenced their understanding of the NCM7. A view as to how they see the changing role of apostles in the future

8. What they consider to be the marks of success for an apostle

In the instrument design I used open ended questions. I wanted to find out which were the motifs that were upper most in their minds so I could assess whether any of the motifs were more prominent in shaping their views.

I attempted to interview the leaders of the key networks that William Kay identified in his study: New Frontiers, Pioneer, Salt & Light, Covenant Ministries, Team Spirit, C.net and Icthus. There has been much recent change in the structure of the NCM. New Frontiers has been decentralised with Terry Virgo being an honourary leader of it. Pioneer has a new team under Billy Kennedy, who was part of the C.net group. C.net was disbanded. Covenant Ministries no longer exists and has divided into numerous groups; and Team Spirit was subsumed into Pioneer. Salt & Light is intact and has transitioned the leadership to its natural successors; and Icthus is still led by Roger Forster. Hugh Osgood was always considered a separate category in William Kay’s work.

The leaders I interviewed were as follows (all agreed to be quoted as part of this study and were happy that they were named).

Gerald Coates, former leader of PioneerBilly Kennedy, current leader of Pioneer and former part of C.NetStuart Bell, current leader of GroundlevelHugh Osgood, current leader of CICTerry Virgo, former leader of New Frontiers

30

Ian Rossel, church leader in Leicester, was part of Covenant Ministries and Together, and now more closely aligned with Global Legacy (Bethel)Roger Forster, founder and current leader of IcthusSteve Thomas, leader of Salt & Light International teamMark Mumford, leader of Salt & Light UK teamJohn Noble, founder and former leader of Team Spirit, and part of Pioneer

The full notes of these interviews are found in Appendix C

3.3 Survey

I developed an online survey (Survey Monkey) which asked a wider church audience more general questions on attitudes to the term apostle. Because the nature and role of apostles is of relatively limited interest to a general NCM church going population, I wanted to attempt to gain a perspective from normal church members and leaders within churches. From my literature review it seems that the senior leaders of churches have been consumed with this concept of the apostle whereas I felt that perhaps it had little impact on the normal church member, apart from a negative impact where churches have suffered from abuse of power, eg inappropriate shepherding. I entered the survey thinking that I would find a general lethargy or negative view of apostles, or at least a disconnect between the importance that the senior leaders placed on this topic and that placed on it by the general church population. I decided to design it as an anonymous survey so people could express themselves freely. I distributed the survey via Facebook to my network of contacts, and via my network leader contacts. My logic was that there would be an element of self selection; only people with some exposure to the subject would complete the survey and my network is fairly wide. I wanted to find out whether there were any trends and patterns of view, so designed the questionnaire around a series of multiple choice questions. I drew on the literature review to assess the prominence and importance that was placed on the various motifs. In hindsight a more carefully designed questionnaire would have given me better control over the responses and therefore a more accurate picture; and a wider distribution across the various networks would have been useful; however accessing a wider group of people would have posed a excessive challenge.

My aim in the survey was to:31

• determine whether consciousness of apostolic matters still exists in NCM• assess whether any particular apostolic motif dominates• determine whether any shift in attitude for the future of the NCM can be identified

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Chapter 4: Research Findings

4.1 William Kay Interview

I have summarised the key issues that came from our interview:

1. The difference between the British NCM attitude to apostles and the thinking from the USA. John Noble was very opposed to much of the thinking from the USA. It is important not to muddle up the British and American thinking.

2. One area which had polluted the thinking on apostles in recent years was the mixing up the theology of apostles with the teaching of John Maxwell, presenting the idea that apostles are CEO’s of churches. This has a tendency to give power to an individual CEO styled leader by giving them the biblical credibility of an apostle.

3. The NCM founders were very keen to get their definition of apostles from scripture, rather than taking business speak and making it theological.

4. Spiritual Fathers and apostles are not the same. Kay agreed that all apostles should be spiritual fathers but not all spiritual fathers apostles.

5. On the issue of succession, some leaders fancy themselves as leaders of a movement so jockey for power.

6. The idea of apostolic hubs or centres is useful as it allows for the use of more fuzzy language so a movement does not get tied up in structural uniformity.

7. Are the demise of Bible Weeks a cause of the decline in the NCM or symptom of it?8. The issue of personal suffering by apostles makes them more approachable and

humble.

This was a very helpful interview as it gave me a number of avenues to consider exploring.

Kay provided some useful angles to pursue concerning the effect of American thought on apostles and the arrival of Maxwell’s123 leadership thinking. I was able to incorporate his observations in Q7 of my interview, although the structure of that question did not prove to effective in drawing out the external influences on apostolic thought. They relied heavily on my prompts in order to answer the question. Generally I was on the look out to see if the

33

123 John Maxwell is an American pastor who has become a leadership teacher and writer in the USA and has produced many books relevant in business and organisational leadership.

current leaders maintained a biblical position about apostles or were influenced by management speak.

He validated the design of Q5 about fathering as a very important motif that needed to be explored.

Although I tried to explore the ideas of apostolic hubs and the demise of Bible Weeks in the context of the interview, they were revealed as different topics that were pertinent to a study of the NCM but not to a reflection on the motifs of the apostle; so I did not explore them in depth. Personal suffering and the apostle was not a theme that I pursued.

34

4.2 Results from Structured Interviews

I have summarised the responses of my interviewees by each question and identified key words that help to identify the major themes.

Leader Q1 : Definition : If you were to describe and apostle in one or two words what would you say and why? What would you say was the difference between Apostle and Apostolic?

Key Words

Billy KennedyCnet, Pioneer

Apostles are fathers giving identity to a community, anointed for breakthrough, entrepreneurial, propelling people into mission.

Father, MissionBreakthroughCommunityEntrepreneurial

Gerald CoatesPioneer

Jack of all trades, can touch all the other ministries and reconciles all to Christ

Reconcile

John NobleTeam Spirit, Pioneer

Sent by God to bring the church to maturity, bring reconciliation, expressing oneness in diverse tribes

ReconcileCommunity

Gareth DuftyCMI, Together

It is not a description of what we do but a call to be one, they bring people to maturity, they show it through another mantle.

Maturity

Ian RosselCMI, Together, Global Legacy

sent from the father to express him, carries the heart of the chief architect, shapes culture, world changer

From FatherArchitectCulture shaper

Stuart BellGroundlevel

Avoid titles, sending from heaven, transformation of city, equipping people

TransformationSentEquipping

Steve ThomasSalt & Light

Missional, pioneering, concerned for breakthrough, stir up the presence of God, fathers releasing destiny, not title.

Mission, Pioneer, FatherBreakthrough

Mark MumfordSalt & Light

Pioneer, father, getting on with it and not just a title, builder PioneerFather, Builder

Terry VirgoNew Frontiers

Wise master builder, laying foundations, revealing hidden doctrines, church planting

BuilderFoundations

Roger ForsterIcthus

Source of spiritual life to congregations, founder of movement, flow of life from spiritual fathers (patriarchs)

FatherFlow of spirit life

Hugh OsgoodCIC

Governance ministry, translocal, bringing wisdom from experience

GovernanceWisdom

Observations• 6/11 mentioned the need not to see apostle as a title but as a function or a description of

who they were.• 4/11 highlighted the fathering aspects of an apostle• 3/11 highlighted the significance of buildingIR used language that was very ‘Bethel’, talked about culture changing

35

GD/RF/IR talked in more spiritually abstract termsMM/HO saw things more practicallySB/GC seemed more uncomfortable by the labelTV was alone in emphasising the foundational teaching aspectsBK/JN/GC contextualised the role in the community of God’s people

36

Leader Q2 : Party Line : What is your networks view, if any? Has it changed over the years?

Key Words


Not impositional but impartational and inspirational, you can ‘serve’ others as well as ‘oversee’, direction by permission.

PermissionServe


Low key, was more about function than title Low key


Never really had one, emphasis on ministries working together and reconciliation

ReconciliationNone


Not really had one, more about the recognition of diversity, the flow of gift

None


CMI - churches owned by apostles, Now - apostles supportive, empowering, fathering

OwnedFathersEmpowering


Very wooly in definition, have regions, but apostle is more about who I am rather than what I do

None


Confusion with bishops, currently in review, more about foundations, mission and breakthrough, leadership training and appointment, problem solving, unity, supernatural

Bishops, Foundationsleadership


Super Pastors who carry strategic insight and spiritual impact, foundational doctrine, troubleshooting, auditing. Godfather model? Being reviewed

StrategicSpiritualFoundational


More clear, consistent view, not backed off from what they originally thought, foundational

Clear

Roger ForsterIcthus

Should recognise apostles but not claim to be one. Much to be learn’t over the years from others, avoid being too categoric

none/openNot claim

Hugh OsgoodCIC

It is about being in community, informal and relational Community, RelationalInformal

Observations• GC never called himself an apostle• SB/RF would be cautious in claiming they were one• IR & GD have different recollections over the CMI history, GD says no model, IR says

very strong governance model• Salt & Light in transition at the moment• TV very clear • 5/11 would say they did not have a party line• No one is advocating a top down hierarchical model any more

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Leader Q3 : Authority : What is the nature of apostolic authority? How does it work in practice?

Key Words


Not imposed authority but like a father has authority for the good of those in his family.

Family


Comes from God, is the means to the end not the end in itself, titles just helpful to understand God

From God


From God, recognised by men, operates by relationship From GodRelationship


Superimpose vision not inflict vision on people, authority in the context of relationship

RelationshipVision


Context is in family, authority as speaking as brother, understand this through serving

FamilyServant


God given and given by the church From God


Authority is handled in a relational context, the model is fathering, teaching and listening

RelationshipFathering


Operates in relationship and anointing, when institutionalised becomes bishop, should not be over-emphasised

Relationship


Its about the guarding of doctrine and making things happen. Pulled back from regional model

DoctrineMake happen

Roger ForsterIcthus

A leader of a clan, communicating vision through theology DoctrineVision

Hugh OsgoodCIC

Has to be recognised and not imposed, based on relationship Relationshipnot imposed

Observations• 7/11 were very clear that the context for all authority is relationship• 7/11 used the idea of family or clan to describe the relationship• RF/TV emphasised the doctrinal truth of the apostle• GC/JN/SB emphasised that authority was from God• GD/RF spoke about the apostle as a communicator of vision

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Leader Q4: Church Governance : How do you see apostles in your structure? i.e. relation to overseers/elders/

deacons?

Key Words


Ultimate responsibility lies with the local church, apostles are more like consultants.

EldersConsultant


Government is about leadership and order, not meant to go on about it

leadershiporder


Government is bad word, better word is leadership that lifts people, government works when we mutually recognise someones gift

leadershipgift


Models of government are determined by our backgrounds, you must not violate what you are made to do. Apostles ruled churches in past now serve churches

ServeBackgrounds


Relationship between apostle and elder is about ‘equality of brotherhood’, must be in the context of love and honour

Brotherhoodhonour


Local church autonomous, built in relationship, connected to the apostolic centre

EldersCentre


Only operates when received and recognised, gone wrong if have to impose

receive and recognise


More direct governance in the young church and more of an advisor in mature church, relational

Directive in newAdvisory in old


By invitation of local church, more about retaining shared values system, called churches together to pray

shared values

Roger ForsterIcthus

Apostles delegate authority to elders, function is the issue not the office

Elders

Hugh OsgoodCIC

Churches are led by eldership with lead elder. Home church is a resource centre

EldershipCentre

Observations• all respondents would now hold that the authority rests in the local church with the

appointed leaders and elders• GC believes apostleship is over emphasised• JN prefers the language of leadership to governance• SB/HO see the need to be rooted in a home church that resources• GD raises the issue of the individuals background in determining the style of church

structure• IR talks about the ‘equality of brotherhood’, a new phrase• TV highlighted governance around vision/prayer

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Leader Q5: Spiritual Fathering : Barney Coombes talks a lot about spiritual fathering as a motif for apostles. Do you agree? What does it look like? Do you think all

apostles are spiritual fathers?

Key Words


Apostleship is more defined by fathering than any other of the ministries, they are not really apostles if they are not.

All Fathers


Hard to be an apostle without a father’s heart, a father is not defined by judgement.

Should be fathers


Central theme, they should help, supply, mature and release and not use fathering as a control mechanism.

All Fathers


Apostles don’t need to be spiritual fathers, although fathering has become a popular idea and so God is probably saying something to this fatherless generation

No


Yes. You have to be a son to be a father. If the family is the primary paradigm they are fathers, if an organisation then CEO

All Fathers and sonsnot CEO


He has moved to a more fatherly/mentoring role in last 5 years, need to be careful about use of family term so the next generation is not stifled

yes with caveats


S&L are a family on mission, we need to be fathers. Less patriarchal now, but fathers hold together with vision and values

All Fathers


Historical view of fathering as patriarch ‘do it my way’, pioneering leaders want to hand over to similar people, not good idea. Concerned about ‘maleness’ of this area

All Fathers


Agree with emphasis, but not insist, our culture is more about church planting and evangelism

should be fathers, emphasis

Roger ForsterIcthus

There are no situations where an apostle can not be a spiritual father, it is a spiritual invitation, don’t make it formal

All Fathers

Hugh OsgoodCIC

This seems to be true, although a patriarchal model is a potential control mechanism

All Fathers

Observations• 10/11 said that they should all be fathers or should have that emphasis• MM/ST/SB/HO all warned over the use of the term because it could be patriarchal and

controlling• TV highlighted it is a matter of emphasis• IR emphasised being a son first

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Leader Q6: New Church : Review the history of the NCM. What are the strengths and weaknesses of apostles?

Key Words


+ broke out of traditions and created flexible wineskins- arrogant, dismissed what existed

+ flexible- arrogant


+found each other and discovered a strength together- cultural and personality difference got in the way

+ together- differences


+kick started something that God was doing, won some battles-got tested on relationships which was the very thing they preached

+ pioneers- relationships


+ introduced idea of restoration, new structures, kingdom - competition, emphasis on organisation, conflict

+ theology- conflict


+ let go of old thinking and get hold of the new ideas- revelation became exclusive

+ pioneers- exclusivity


+ new thinking, new initiatives, saved UK church- control, exclusivity, hurting people

+ thinking- control


+ prophetic teachers made mistakes we learnt from- pioneering leaders do not pass on well to building leaders

+ mistakes- not pass on


+ identity was created with big picture thinking- apostleship and governance was confused, overbearing authority

+ thinking- authority


+ thinking outside the box, radical- stopped being biblically motivated, anti-religious

+ radical- bible

Roger ForsterIcthus

+ created a new sense of order- control, we got our hands on what God started

+ order- control

Hugh OsgoodCIC

+ broke barriers, tension produces something, some good relationships

- more maturity needed, no fathers at first, divided too quickly

+ pioneers- division

Observations• 7/11 saw the greatest strengths of the NCM as the willingness to be radical, discover

new theology, think outside the box• RF stressed a new order, JN stressed relationships• 9/11 saw the greatest weakness as being the control, arrogance and division that

entered in• TV saw it as the addition of unbiblical thinking• ST sees succession as an issue

41

As part of this question I offered prompts as to potential influences. 124

Leader Q7: Influences : what have been the greatest influences on attitudes to the apostolic in the last

15-20 years? What are current influences?

Key Words


Formulae that create hierarchy Formulae


no answer


Toronto gave a broader understanding of the spirit Toronto


Bethel is a current trend, a new understanding of kingdom, Toronto

BethelTorontoKingdom


Bethel and the culture of honour. Negatively is the unhealed heart

BethelHeart issues


Deconstructionism, clinical USA thinking, rise of the black church positively

Deconstructionism, Clinical thinking


Disappointment of a post modern generation that ask lots of questions, lack of missional imperative

Post Modernloss of mission


Emerging church, the CEO visionary leader, Jones left a hierarchical understanding

Emerging CEO


Not felt has shifted ground, vineyard has been big Vineyard

Roger ForsterIcthus

Deconstructionism, people wanting the freedom to express themselves, apostles construct

Deconstructionism

Hugh OsgoodCIC

We tend to get absorbed in the latest new idea new ideas

Observations• Few leaders grasped the questions with out my prompts, this questions could be

redesigned• Overall I didn't feel they answered well, they did not seem to engage with the idea that

issues in society and church had a bearing on the role that an apostle plays• 2/11 saw Toronto and 2/11 Bethel having a positive effect• MM/BK/SB critical of formulaic approach to apostles

42

124 Prompts included Toronto, Deconstruction, Disapointment, Home/simple church, CEO/Management, New Evangelical (Rob Bell), De-churched, Emergent Church, Seeker, Purpose Driven, Black Church

Leader Q8: Future : Do you see any changes in the future of the apostolic?

Key Words


Unity around fathers, centres that influence unity hubs


Apostles looking for partnership for the re-evangelisation of GB missionpartnership


Cross international boundaries, marginalised given a voice, context of the end times

internationaleschatology


Trinity, which is not structural and the male/femaleness of government

Trinity


Celebrating the flow of what different apostolic fathers bring celebrating flow


More effective in serving each other, relationships Relationships


The evidence of mission Mission


less bothered about apostles and more interested in fulfilling apostolic call which is mission

Mission


Peter Wagner’s thinking has seen truth mixed with confusion, a social commentary, but in many parts of country new interest

international

Roger ForsterIcthus

the NCM has made a humble contribution to leadership and there is so much more out there

leadership

Hugh OsgoodCIC

Hopeful about the continuance of apostolic understanding understanding of apostles

Observations• All leaders were generally optimistic and positive about the future• TV raised concerns over Peter Wagner’s writing on the subject• 5/11 named mission/ international as the most important future area• JN introduced the need for an eschatological perspective• GD introduced the idea of seeing male and female as part of trinitarian government

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Leader Q9: Success : How would you know that an apostle has been successful? What are the markers

Key Words


Evidence of fruit, signs & wonders and transformation fruitsigns& wonderstransformation


only know in years to come


seeing others succeed others


Don’t like the phrase, too business like, evidence is christlikeness and maturity

ChristlikeMaturity


The culture of heaven, relationships, supernatural activity, transformation of cities

RelationshipsSupernaturalTransformation


People equipped, next generation raised up, apostles are never satisfied

EquippedNext Generation


Growth, healthy churches, training of leaders GrowthLeaders


Not asked


Foundations that are secure and healthy, catching people up with world mission

MissionFoundations

Roger ForsterIcthus

Not the number of attendees at conventions, numbers are not important more about the influence that the apostle brings

Influence

Hugh OsgoodCIC

Rescued troubled churches, stability, security StabilitySecurity

Observations• 8/10 saw success in others, raising up of leaders, next generation, health• 2/10 saw success in transformation/supernatural activity

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4.3 Results from Online Survey

The respondents came from church members from across the network and denominational spectrum, some holding leadership positions and some not.

Q1. Stream or Movement

Observations• A significant number of people (70) answered the questionnaire who identified with PIH

(the Toronto linked churches). As this is one of the streams that my church connects with this is not surprising

• More significant is the number of people (103) who did not identify with any of the streams offered as a choice in the questionnaire. This suggests indifference or confusion about the streams/movements that they would align with.

• From the Other Responses 70 could be identified as an organised church group such as Salt & Light, NCMI, Elim, New Wine, Word of Faith, FIEC, TACF/Catch the Fire

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• 31 responses from the Other category were not identifiable with an organised movement or denomination. These included: none, post-house church, charismatic, convergent, new monasticism, full gospel, house church, completely independent, ‘Which ever one is

forward facing. Moving forward without constriction and and allows the 'flock' to engage’,

Church without walls, ‘there's only one church!’, relational networks, I struggle to identify

with one stream

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Q2. Leadership position

Observations

• 41% of respondents have no leadership role in church

• 33% would be classed as ‘full time’ leaders

• 59% have some leadership capacity

• I recognise within this question there could be overlap between the categories

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Q3. Age

Observations• 70.4% of respondents were 40+

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Q4. Understanding

Observations

• 72% seemed to be confident about their understanding of the role and function of

modern apostles

• Only 10% did not understand or 27% if add the confused section

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Q5. Attitude towards Apostles

Observations

• 96% of respondents said that apostles were vital or helpful for the church today• only 4% said they were not needed or not exist today

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Q6. How their past experience of apostles impact their view today

Observations• Only 4 respondents felt negatively about apostles, but if you add in the ‘mixed feelings’

group it is a third of respondants• 65% felt positively about apostles

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Q7. Which motifs do people most readily identify as belonging to an apostle, thinking about their historic view of apostles

Observations• The respondent was allowed to pick 3 statements• The top five statements are Foundational, Visionary, Teaching Truth, Church Planter,

Master Builder• The bottom statements are Entrepreneur and Boss• Other comments included: bring breakthrough, equipping the saints for works of service,

translocal, encouraging others to fulfill their calling and ministry, Mentor, overseer,

servant apostle, apostles outside of church leadership, ‘plus a few negative words too!’

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Q8. Which motifs do people most readily identify as belonging to an apostle, thinking about what they would like or hope to see

Observations• The respondent was allowed to pick 3 statements• The top five statements are Visionary, Foundational, Teaching Truth, Father, Pioneering• The lowest are boss and entrepreneur

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Comparison of Q7 and Q8

Observations• The respondents were asked to reflect on what motif of apostolship they have seen in

the past and what they want to see in the future• The biggest leap is ‘Father’ it has moved from 7th to 2nd• Visionary has moved from second to first• Motifs such as Church Planter and Senior Leader have decreased• The authority group ‘governmental’ and ‘boss’ also decreased

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Q9 Role of external Apostle

Observations• An exclusive directive role in the church is not seen as important; only 5% thought that

this was there primary function• The majority felt that their role will vary depending on the situation they find themselves

in

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Q10. The contribution an apostle makes to the the life of the local church

Observations• Clearly the most important contribution that an apostle makes is the external wider view

on what God is doing 46%• Accountability, revelation and breakthrough are about even• The lowest issues they are seen to help with is ‘handling church crisis’ and ‘dealing with

error’.

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Chapter 5 : Discussion of findings

From my research a number of dominant themes emerged which need to be discussed; namely the ‘apostolic personality’, a broad definition of the apostle and the influence of North America on the study of the NCM. After exploring these themes I will discuss the motifs that were identified from the literature review.

5.1 Apostolic Personality

Each apostle seems to have an emphasis that is very much aligned to the personality of the individual. Terry Virgo has a deep conviction about doctrinal truth and mission, Barney Coombs a sense of the need of a Father, Bryn Jones a clarity about authority. In my interviews Coates talked about the apostle being a ‘jack of all trades’ and Noble emphasised his interest and call to ‘reconciliation’ and unity. Although many of the motifs were recognised by all, each would have a particular bent which they would emphasise. They claimed a biblically founded view that apostles are gifts of people rather than a gift of anointing, the difference in the 1 Cor 12 passage and the Eph 4: although undoubtedly an apostle has a anointing for the task. Arthur Wallis emphasises the word ‘until’ (Eph 4:13), the gifts of people are necessary until the church reaches the levels of maturity of Christ, presumably to usher in the return of the King of Kings himself.

In the early days of the NCM the founders sought a clear biblical understanding of the role and function of the apostles rather than adopting an existing theory. In my interview with Kay he was clear that ‘the NCM founders were very keen to get their definition from apostles from scripture, rather than taking business speak and making it theological’. I have not tried to engage in a scrutiny of their biblical exegesis but to convey what their biblical understanding was. In essence, they took the view that Jesus was the chief apostle (Heb 3:1), he appointed twelve, who were referred to as ‘the apostles of the Lamb’ (Rev 21:14)125, then after Jesus ascended to heaven he appointed ‘the apostles of the ascension’; Virgo126 describes them as ‘gifts of the ascension’ or ‘equipping apostles’127(Eph 4), which included all the other named and un-named apostles since the

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125 Coombs (1996) p21

126 Devenish (2011) p27

127 Coombs (1996) p24

original twelve. The exception was that Paul may have been in a category all of his own; was he the real replacement to Matthais? Bearing in mind the background of some of the leaders of the NCM, it is possible that the separation that Arthur Wallis created of the ‘apostles of the Lamb’ and the ‘apostles of the ascension’128 is a neat theological device to ring fence controversy and make the NCM theology of apostles more palatable to the brothers with more conventional evangelical backgrounds? The founders of the NCM had an understanding that their personalities and character were integral to the effective working of the apostolic ministry. Although we can find patterns and themes to the working of the modern apostle, the essential understanding of the gift is the nature of the person that God gives to the body. It makes for a diverse understanding of the apostle and probably goes some way towards explaining why constructing a job description is so hard. A recent study129 on the subject suggests that ‘apostles are schizophrenic’. You would certainly draw that conclusion if you tried to encapsulate all the dynamics of an apostle in any one person.

When we accept the nature of apostles as the gift of a person, we can assume that that is a gift warts and all! Bryn Jones 130 reflected on the character weakness of apostles which he was familiar with and observed that they ‘may fail to complete the task to which they have been commissioned...(because of the) love of money, jealousy, succumbing to wrong motivations’ ; all highly human traits. Mohabir 131 identifies some of these apostolic weaknesses:

obsessed with his commission.. appear intolerant of other people’s opinions and ideas.. embarrassingly overbearing, and even display a dominant personality... urgency to get things done leads to frustration... can appear to be very independent.. can behave more like a mother hen than a mentor..they tend to be loners lost in their own world and they cannot understand why others cannot flow in their world and their pace.

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128 discussed in the literature review

129 Mohabir (2003)

130 Jones (1999)

131 Mohabir (2003)

Mohabir highlights core insecurities and potential character flaws that he has observed in apostles, some of which I would agree with. What they highlight is the human dimension of the apostle, thus is deeply reassuring, they are not supposed to be super-hero leaders, they are supposed to come with all their gifts and callings, and also their flaws and weaknesses. Alan Hirsch 132 warns ‘there is a problem if we try to put too much institutionalising into the new testament concept of apostolic’; he’s right. The more we focus on the function and task of the apostle the more the role becomes harder to fit into real life and tensions creep into our ecclesiology. It is alongside this uniquely human dimension that later we can begin to flesh out the motifs.

5.2 Apostolic Definition

The majority of the leaders interviewed mentioned the need not to see ‘apostle’ as a title but as a function or a description of who they were. They highlighted the significance of the apostle building within the context of God’s people. Depending on their personality they articulated a definition in either lofty spiritual language or pragmatic language. Philip Greenslade 133 warns that ‘seeking to define the ministry of apostles in detail can be dangerous because it leads us to cast them in inflexible moulds and categories’, which is fair warning; but there has to be an attempt to bring some definition or otherwise an apostle could be whatever he or she wants it to be. Barney Coombs134 categorises the apostles as equipping, local (based in the local church or city rather than traveling), ethnic (ministering to people groups), fathering and serving. Bryn Jones seems to be less cryptic, as well as liking the idea of the humanity of the apostle, he references the hallmarks of an apostle (Appendix A - is a useful guide).

Essential to a definition is the understanding of the idea that the meaning of the word apostle is ‘sent one.’135 In ancient times it was used to describe a marine officer, generally an admiral or an individual responsible for a flotilla of ships. Apostles are the

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132 Hirsch (2006)

133 Jones (1999)

134 Coombs (1996) p24

135 I have not endeavored to undertake a full analysis of the word ‘sent one’ as the use of a word can of course change in its meaning, but the NCM leaders generally adopt the idea that ‘sent one’ is useful in defining an apostle.

delegates for mission they have been sent on.136 Later it designated a bill, invoice, or passport137 as it was something that represents a higher authority. Although in biblical scholarship outside of the NCM there is disagreement on how the word apostle is used, most of the leaders within the NCM would use the root meaning of the word apostle to help shape their understanding of the function; that is that the apostle is a delegate, a representative or as Torres138 says ‘one empowered by a sending party or group to act with full authority for the sender....the word always designates a man sent with plenipotentiary authority.’ The word carries so much more meaning than a church advisor or church planter. The apostle is one with the full authority of heaven; a person who carries the conviction of the heavenly one from whom he gets his orders. Wallis139 says that this heavenly conviction will ‘bring a new sense of security, of spiritual dependence and of heavenly authority into the lowliest task of the kingdom’. Apostles are spiritual delegates of heavenly power; people endowed with a commission of God to impart a kingdom mission. This vision of apostles goes far beyond a church official, it is ambassadorial in status and authority. Derek Tidball140 takes on this description of an ambassador (2 Cor 5:20) as appropriate to a church leader, but he is wonderfully describing the apostolic office

‘In the political and legal world of his day an ambassador was not usually a professional diplomat but someone who was prepared to travel to represent a government or community....He will embody the interests of the sending power and negotiate on its behalf. Ambassadors were charged with finding the strategic moment and the most effective means of communicating the message...he had received a commission, and it was that commission which gave him his identity.’

If we superimpose ambassadorial qualities on the apostle we end up with an effective description of a person set aside for a clear heavenly mandate. ‘The first task of apostolic

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136 Torres (2001)

137 Brand, C., Draper, C., England, A., Bond, S., Clendenen, E. R., Butler, T. C., & Latta, B. (2003). Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary (88). Nashville, TN: Holman Bible Publishers.

138 Robert Duncan Culver, Apostles & the Apostolate in the NT, Article

139 Matthews (1988) p145

140 Tidball (1999) p17

ministry is to accurately represent the sender’141. They have an intensity about them because they are ‘concerned for the internal integrity of God’s house;’ 142 perhaps something akin to the Old Testament prophet who had a special mission and message. ‘There is a certain verticality in the prophetic economy to be contrasted with a more horizontal mode in the apostolic’143. Lyne144 would say ‘the term apostle (one sent forth) describes the sphere of operation rather than the function’ ; and Jones:145 ‘although each apostle is sent with a specific commission, we are not told what gifting is to accomplish it’. The emphasis in this thinking is not on a list of things that need to be achieved, or a task to completed or a structural problem, rather the emphasis of the apostle is the delivery of the divine mission embedded in the person that the Lord calls to fulfill it. To put a current spin on this they are ‘essentially the steward of the DNA of the church...(responsible for the) faithful transmission from one context to another’ 146. Once the context of the apostle becomes spiritual in intent and nature it transforms our understanding from a glorified superintendent or bishop to an agent of divine change, the transmitters of a heavenly culture. Peter Wagner147 argues that the divine order of the apostle first is essential for the health of the church. If apostles are divine agents of the kingdom, then their removal from functioning in the contemporary church poses the question: ‘Is it any wonder why the church goes into decline?

It is important to tease out the spiritual nature of the apostle, as many large church leaders, regional supervisors and bishops may adopt the term apostle to describe the important managerial activity that they have within the church. Dufty, Forster and Rossel all emphasised the spiritual calling of the apostle and the spiritual nature of their role. Davies148 would argue that ‘a delegate cannot, in turn, delegate his authority which has been delegated to him, and therefore one apostle cannot delegate his authority to another’ although he accepts that people can function in an apostolic way. The concept of team

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141 Rumble (1996)

142 Greenslade

143 The Oxford Companion to Christian Thought, Hastings, Mason & Piper OUP 2000

144 Lyne (1999)

145 Jones (1999)

146 Hirsch (2006)

147 Wagner (2000) p9

148 Davies (1986)

ministry is a very well developed idea within the NCM, and various ministries act on behalf of an apostle, so in that way some of the functions are delegated, however I would agree with Davies that spiritual authority given to an apostle can not be passed on to another, unless they are of course an apostle in their own right, because God appoints and anoints individuals rather than there being some kind of apostolic succession.

The functional criteria of an apostle ‘are largely character, charisma, and dynamic and quality of workmanship.’149 McNeal150 would say ‘apostolic leaders not only have leadership characteristics different from other leadership paradigms, they also develop differently’. McNeal’s argument comes in an appeal for the church (mainly an American approach) to embrace a different form of leadership; probably in reaction to the CEO model of leadership that is prevalent in mega church contexts. Kay151 would argue that the Maxwell school of leadership thinking has ‘polluted’ our understanding of apostles. He argues that in order to ‘give power to an individual CEO styled leader’ we give ‘them the biblical credibility of an apostle’. Virgo also is concerned about the influence of Peter Wagner’s teaching on the apostle; he sees ‘truth mixed with confusion’. He thinks Wagner is making more of a social commentary on leadership rather than characterising a biblical apostle.

However, having stressed the distraction of business thinking on the role of the apostle, apostles are not about title but function. Six interviewees mentioned the need to see the apostle not as a title but as a function or a description of who they were. Coates and Bell were very uncomfortable with calling themselves apostles. Forster said ‘we should recognise apostles in the church, not claim it ourselves’ and Bell thought that naming oneself an apostle is like a plumber calling himself ‘Plumber Smith’. Mumford was just interested in ‘getting on with it’ and Osgood was very practical in his outworking of the role. Five of the respondents did not have a ‘party line’ on what an apostle was. The questionnaire highlighted that the apostle is most use practically in the local church in sharing a wider view of what God is doing, giving accountability to leaders, bringing breakthrough to the local church and speaking about fresh revelation. Kennedy, Noble and Coates grounded the role of the apostle in the community of God’s people, and Bell

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150 McNeal (2003)

151 from interview

commented that it did not work well when the apostle gives up the leadership of the local church. Stay rooted in local church, don’t worry about titles and get on with the job seems to be the message.

McNeal152, in his chapter about the ‘rise of apostolic leadership’ he tracks the movement in the type of leadership that was needed to create effective church in each season of church history. The medieval ‘holy person’, the pre-reformation ‘pastor’, the reformation ‘educator’ and the twentieth century ‘manager’. He calls for a ‘context of leadership that responds to the new spiritual landscape...simply put we have a critical shortage of the right kind of leadership.’ Although I think his social and historical commentary is interesting, it risks oversimplifying two thousand years of history in order to make a point. The point he makes well is that in order for the church of the twenty first century to make any headway into the cultural maze that is modern society we need ‘a new breed of church leaders .. that will meet the leadership challenges of what it will take for the church church to become more missionally effective.’ He argues that this should be apostolic in nature. I would argue that every generation has a sense of reinventing itself, and every generation needs apostles to contextualise the message of Christ to the culture it finds itself in. The doctrines of truth laid out in scripture need authoritative leaders to apply it to the time in which we live. Max Turner153 summarises this sentiment: ‘apostles are perceived as the power house, and master architects of the church and those carrying the greatest charismatic authority.’ 96% of the respondents to my questionnaire said that apostles were vital or helpful for the church today; clearly the need from people is there. 72% said they were confident in knowing what an apostle was, clearly a degree of understanding is there. Nearly half of respondents saw the most important contribution that an apostle makes is the external wider view on what God is doing 46%; and in the days ahead casting vision is one of the key motifs (increased in importance by 6%); clearly they are looking for something from apostles!

Malcom Grundy154 reviewed leadership trends from an anglican perspective and proffered a series of leadership types that have some resonance with the nature of apostolic leadership. Grundy does not advocate any form of apostolic leadership is needed but

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152 McNeal (2003) p120


154 Grundy (2007) p22

does call for something more strategic. He raises the idea of ‘Heroic Leadership’ leading from the front and great in a crisis, ‘Entrepreneurial leadership’ repeating success, ‘Managerial Leadership’ working unseen in the background over a long period of time, ‘Thought Leadership’ communicating new frameworks of thinking, and ‘Social Leadership’ working outside the box in order to effect social change. His poignant point is to offer what is needed in the current social climate to effect the change necessary in the church. It speaks to the nature of the term apostle: the type of leadership necessary for the church is less about skill or task and more about character, vision and personality. If we reflect on the early days of the NCM with these contemporary terms I would argue that some of the conflict and uncertainty that occurred in the early days is because the leaders were grappling for models to understand what they were discovering. Arthur Wallis clearly saw something from afar but was not fully able to express it in terms that were understood in the late 60’s or 70’s. He was breaking through concept barriers and exhibiting ‘thought leadership’. Bryn Jones’s decisive leadership meant that his ‘heroic leadership’ style sorted out situations. Terry Virgo has proven his ‘entrepreneurial leadership’ over years of repeating successful church plants time and time again. If there is one failing in the crew of the early fathers of the NCM it is the effective embracing of true ‘social leadership’. Because of the out-of-the-box nature of this gift it probably meant that leaders gifted in this area have had to plough their own furrow. John Noble probably encapsulates this. His passion for deep rooted social change meant that at times he was at odds with those around him and probably misunderstood. The reflections of my cohort of interviewees was that the greatest strengths of the NCM was the willingness to be radical, discover new theology, think outside the box (7 out of 11); they left a legacy of original thought. As Steve Thomas says: ‘there was an inevitability about making mistakes’; but there needed to be a realisation that ‘pioneering apostles’ needed to hand on to ‘building apostles’ and that transition is not without difficulty.

The NCM in its early days struggled to define the role and function of the apostle because they had very few models to help them contextualise what they were experiencing. They knew they had something special and tried to create a biblical framework for it, but in the wrestling with the calling, they struggled to make full sense of what God was doing. Alan Hirsch155 rather dramatically calls it ‘apostolic genius’ to make a point. The writer and

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155 Hirsch (2006) p11

teacher David Matthews156 from his first hand experience in the restoration movement puts it in a simple way:

It's the 'new churches' that seem to have embraced apostles most readily since the 1970s. While their definition remains blurred at the edges, apostles generally provide objective outside help and direction to local leaders. They are travelling men, jetting here and there to dispense their wisdom and experience to God's people across the nations.

5.3 North American influence

I have already commented that the early NCM leaders resisted overt influence from the USA but as Kay has suggested there have been more recent influences on the NCM from American writers. Mumford, Kennedy and Bell were all resistant to more formulaic approaches. Virgo was very concerned about the Peter Wagner thinking. Two interviewees mentioned the Toronto blessing as a generally positive influence and two the rise of Bethel (a movement flowing out of Toronto). Kay157 commenting on the Toronto Blessing said

The apostolic networks largely welcomed the Toronto blessing and accepted its benefits for refreshment and rejuvenation. Their (British networks) relational style of ministry and their informal meetings could cope with unusual spiritual phenomena and, because of the apostolic form of government, they were able to make decisions quickly about accompanying developments on the Christian scene in Britain.’

Toronto certainly did not claim apostolic leadership. In a recent open discussion with John Arnott158 he was very cautious about using the term because of misuse. Bill Johnson from Bethel, has clearly cast a fresh identity to the role of apostle. Dufty recognises its influence on the UK NCM, Rossel would be the leader most closely identifiable with Bethel and used language which reflected the style and theology of Bethel. From my observation and

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156 David Matthews, 1999,

157 Kay, W. K., & Dyer, A. E. (2005) ‘Apostolic Networks in the UK: the dynamics of growth’. Journal of the European Pentecostal Theological Association, 25, 25-38

158 a Q&A session at a PIH conference 2010

discussion with leaders I believe the influence of North America on the NCM is widespread now whereas in the early days of the NCM it was more contained.

5.4 Motif : Leadership

Visionary

Terry Virgo159 poses the question ‘can we do without apostles?...if we just want to preserve the existing set-up, we can certainly cope without them’. The landscape of the country before the NCM was one of the status quo; the church was stagnating and this caused a passionate set of leaders to ask questions. The issues in the mainstream denominations was that its leaders were being trained to pastor, teach and organise the church, not lead with vision. George Barna160 asks: ‘as long as the church persists in being led by teachers, it will flounder. Identifying developing, deploying and supporting gifted leaders will renew the vision, energy, and impact of the church’. Bell commented in his interview that without the NCM in the UK ‘Britain may well be in trouble’. My questionnaire highlighted the most needed commodity from the apostle in the future is vision.

When the determined vision of the apostle goes wrong it can be tragic, get it right and the church moves into a different level of effectiveness. One of the criticisms leveled at strong apostolic leadership is their headstrong assertiveness; they are in pursuit of something they have seen. The downside is that the people they are leading can feel bulldozed; hence the pastor is supposed to work in the team. Bryn Jones161, well known for his determination, says: ‘the apostle must have a single minded devotion to the interests of God... without regard for personal welfare.’ Is this assertive visionary style of leadership scripturally justified or just a personality trait? Dufty162 recounted that historically apostolic vision superimposes vision on the local expression ‘but we are no longer in the era of inflicting vision on people.’ Steve Thomas 163 challenges the thinking of the local church ‘not undermine their vision, they need to have the sight, that is what they are called to.’

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159 Matthews (1988)

160 Wagner (2000)

161 Matthews (1988) p51

162 from interview

163 from interview

Not all apostles would have the bold determination of Jones but they do need to be consumed with the vision for the goal of heaven. Bill Johnson (Bethel USA) speaks a restoration language cast in new light and have attracted many devotees of the British NCM to his refreshed idea of restoration. Much of the attraction to Johnson is very similar to the attraction to Jones in the 1970’s and 80’s although their personalities are very different. Danny Silk164 (the pastor in Johnson’s team) puts vision this way:

The apostle and prophet creates a perspective that is primarily focused on perceiving what is going on in Heaven and bringing that to earth...when Paul makes apostles first, prophets second, and teachers third, he is describing a flow.

This sets vision not in a business or organisational sense, but in the release of what God is doing. Much of the thinking in Christian leadership books on vision borrows from the excellent work done in business. The modern world of business and organisational structures have found that vision is an essential commodity for success, whether measured in profit or delivery. The same is true in the church. Vision is critical for the success of the church, but the mistake that church leaders make is that it looses its spiritual focus; it begins to operate in a framework that is more about delivery of programmes than the spiritual sight needed to bring the church into its fullness.

Barney Coombs165 understood this spiritual calling. He talks about the prime vision of the apostle being the scriptural truths that he is consumed with. Coombs wants the apostle to focus on redemption being the restoration of God’s plan, the building of the dwelling place of God, seeing many sons come to glory and the body coming to maturity and consequently unity. Forster166 said‘the apostle is the visionary and this needs to be communicated through theology.’ This conviction to spiritual truth is the essence of the apostle. Vision should not be constrained within some physical project or event, these will inevitably flow from a heavenly vision but are not what it is about. Gareth Dufty 167, the successor to the remnant of Covenant ministries, says the apostle must pursue a vision

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164 Silk (2009) p57

165 Coombs (1996) p84

166 from interview

167 From an unpublished article by Gareth Dufty

which is ‘clear as to what has been seen in their commission, be committed to its completion, obedient to the will of God in its commands, patiently persevering despite any and all setbacks to be obedient to the heavenly vision.’ Dufty is attempting to penetrate to the heart of carrying vision, it is not always easy to articulate, but must be relentlessly pursued despite setback and misunderstanding. No wonder apostles can be difficult people. Johnson168 puts it with slightly more flourish

Apostles carry a blueprint in their hearts concerning the church and God’s purposes on the earth. They are used to bring fresh revelation to the church. Apostolic teams are sent to represent their spiritual father, and carry the word that has been entrusted to their ‘tribe’.

This overt spiritual language is in line with the tone of scripture. Bell169 describes his apostolic ‘team with a vision of being sent’ to work in churches. Missional thinkers are pursuing the same as the likes of Johnson, but seek to find language that connects with post-modern reference points. Alan Hirsch170 talks about the ‘the task of the apostolic ministry is to create environments wherein the apostolic imagination of God’s people can be evoked (to influence the) invisible fields of culture, values, vision, and ethics,’ Hirsch’s language sounds great but it seems to dilute the spiritual scriptural realities that Coombs and Jones were pursuing.

Strategist

One of the lasting features of the NCM is that they were effective in delivering activity and fresh structures. Churches grew, buildings acquired, ministries launched, events and conferences were put on, a forty year review of the activity of the ministries makes for compelling reading, these were activists, they turned dreams into deeds. Kay 171 observes in his commentary of the New Churches that the rise of the networks was more to do with the organisational need to respond to growth rather than any theological driver. Organisationally the relationship with the apostle is key, and so their strategy was to create

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168 Bill Johnson, Apostolic Teams, From Website www.billjohnson.com

169 from interview

170 Hirsch (2006)

171 Kay (2007) p236

networks where the relational connection was preserved. ‘Our line is traditionally the big A sort of apostle. We see it as a pastor of pastors, super pastor who has a strategic element, who carry spiritual impact’ says Mumford172 commenting on the Salt & Light apostle.

It has to be the big picture role of the strategic leader that is most needed; getting a grasp of the scene into which apostles needs to lay the vision that they have. An apostle operating in his strategic gift will ‘save us from wearing out the saints with unnecessary activity...and keep us from trying to fit square pegs into round holes.’ 173 The point of having a strategy is to prevent wasting energy. I referenced some of the thinking of Grundy on an apostolic model. He174 says of strategic leadership ‘when leadership does not succeed in holding different views in a creative tension’ where no overall sense of direction exists, then the feelings of unease come to the surface’. Apostles to be effective must be able to hold issues in tension; a degree of ambiguity is required and an ability to join up the pieces, an integration of people and their skills. Operating strategy is essential for the transition of any dream into reality. Rumble175 comments that ‘a true apostle will recognise, point to, and join in with what God is bringing full but will refuse to organise what he thinks ought to come forth’, that is certainly not the NCM way. Rather they find out what God is doing and make it happen - hands on! The strategic leader is one who delivers the promise. They are certainly not hands off in their approach; they burn with the need to see the thing in gestation birthed.

Builder

Dave Tomlinson176 in an article in Restoration magazine berates the ‘charismatic roundabout’ where nothing actually happens; the same issues go round and round. The task of the apostle is to get the church off the merry-go-round and build something. It would be easy to get obsessed by the building of things: structures, ministries; and in our modern church world building a fan page on Facebook or building an increased number of

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172 from interview

173 Coombs (1996) p63

174 Grundy (2007) p61

175 Rumble (1996)

176 Kay (2007) p241

followers on twitter. However, at the roots of the NCM is that the essential building programme is about the construction of the church as people. I suggest that the networks over the years lost that appreciation of the importance of people. Most of the networks became more concerned with facilities, the growth of bible weeks, and their international reputation.

Three of the leaders interviewed suggested the significance of building the body. Rossel said the meaning of ‘first apostle’ is the process of building not the importance or value of the gift. The apostle is an architect, designing the house, and then the builder, making it. Kennedy relates this function to family ‘fathers build’; and Dufty says the apostle each has ‘to build something in order to manifest Christ’. Dufty centres the building process back to Jesus. Jones177, his spiritual father, said

Apostles are the first among the ministries in building the church of God, because they lay a foundation of understanding concerning the mystery of Christ… in human terms, they are the first in the responsibility and the last in reward.

Steve Thomas responds to the question does every church need to relate to an apostle? His answer is ‘yes if it wants to get built up properly, apostles are builders’.

One final view on building from Keri Jones178, who, compared to his brother, has a more black and white outlook

The apostles real joy is to see that what he has been building is able to withstand the test of time... uncompromising in what they see.. he knows that what he is building is permanent and lasting

His comment highlights an admirable tenacity, but perhaps leads to a more autocratic style of leadership. Covenant Ministries, came in for much criticism for its determined and almost exclusive approach to what they built. When the task of building became confused

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177 Jones (1999)

178 Matthews (1988) p79

with the ecclessiology of the organisation that is built, we seem to get into difficulty. Virgo179 prophesied the problems in the NCM when he commented

As a wise master builder Paul did not regard his apostleship as a position in the church hierarchy. He did not see himself at the top of a corporate pyramid; he was not a chief executive in a complicated church superstructure.

If you are an apostle, Dufty says you ‘must build to your calling’, the nature of the building reflects the nature of the person doing the building, and what we are building ultimately is people.

Foundational

The survey highlighted the strongest historic perception of an apostle as ‘foundational’. In his early pamphlet on apostles, John Noble180 says ‘the work of an apostle is to untangle the knots, to clear the site and bring things back, beginning at grass-roots level’, and goes on to highlight foundational principles from Hebrews 6. Foundations must be about ‘understanding concerning the mystery of Christ.’181 There is of course structural evidence of foundations, but it is the spiritual and theological foundations that are significant for the church going forward. Forster182 talks about the apostle being the ‘founder of a flow’ which gives building more of a sense of movement, Mumford questions the more static model of ‘foundation laying’ as a failing model; if we just build in static or organisational terms we have not really grasped the true idea of foundations. Arthur Wallis183 makes mention of the ‘historical and experiential foundation’ of the church. You cannot remove altogether two thousand years of history in the construction of the church, but the experience of the people with God, each other and the apostle is critical to the well being. Wallis adds to the significance of foundations by referring us to the parable of the houses on the rock and

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179 Terry Virgo, Apostolic Foundations, www.terryvirgo.org

180 John Noble, First Apostles Last Apostles, Unpublished

181 Jones (1999)

182 from interview

183 Matthews (1988) p19



sand (Mt 7:24-27) as an image of a church or person not built on Christ184. Rossel185 puts the foundation laying squarely back in a relational context ‘apostles are foundational, they are not ‘over’ but supportive’. Church structures should embrace the foundational nature of apostles, perhaps success is dependent on how well foundations are laid.

Teaching Truth

Virgo is fairly clear on the significance of teaching biblical truth as a key part of the mandate of the apostle. He would say it is foundational186. The survey positioned teaching truth as third in both the historic and future functions of the apostle, where as when asked what the contribution to the life of the church was the respondents ranked teaching 5th and put revelation ahead of teaching. This may have something to do with the people that responded would place a greater value on seeking fresh revelation.187 Noble188 says Apostles guard doctrinal teaching or have ‘authority’ over it. They are supposed to lay the foundational teaching so people ‘get who they are in Christ’189 and so ‘bring security’.190 Tony Moreton191 proposed the idea of an apostolic community ‘preparing, envisioning and empowering them to express the apostolic vision in their own lives (it was a) springboard for success.’

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184 see for example (1 Cor 3:11), the original apostles (Mt 16:18; Rev 21:14) and the current apostolic and prophetic foundation (Eph 2:20)

185 from interview

186 interview with Terry Virgo

187 There is a debate about revelation and biblical truth which I have not gone into. Suffice it to say that revelation is perceived as biblical truth with a contemporary prophetic slant to it.

188 from interview with John Noble

189 interview Terry Virgo

190 interview Hugh Osgood

191 Matthews (1988) p91

5.5 Motif : Community

Fathering

‘Apostles are more defined by fathering than any other of the ministries; it is really the definition of apostles’ says Kennedy192. But Dufty193 says ‘to be an apostle you don’t need to be a spiritual father’ ; which is it? One of the key questions that I wanted answered in approaching this work was whether the motif of father is the most important motif for an apostle. In my survey the biggest leap from what apostles were to what they might look like was over the issue of fathering; it has moved from 7th to 2nd. Coates194 recognises that ‘fathering is going back to the essential quality of the God head’, and Forster195 argued that the family of God stems from Abraham the father, and ‘in a more humble and limited way God ordains apostle's as the fathers of a stream’. When I asked for a key definition of an apostle from my interview group, four of them volunteered that they should be fathers, and when asked directly whether being a father was essential 10 out of 11 said it was. Coombs 196 who is a huge proponent of this idea said:

There are many men pastoring churches today who themselves have never been fathered... when they are given input that could help increase their personal effectiveness, they interpret it as disapproval.’

He put some of the problem of leadership down to the lack of natural and spiritual fathering. Coombs has been criticised as being patriarchal. Mumford 197 recognises a ‘strong sense of the patriarch in the movement, fathering is seen as ‘do it my way’ rather than a conversation.’ Noble 198 says it can be used as a ‘control mechanism.’ In fact Osgood,

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192 interview with Billy Kennedy

193 interview with Gareth Dufty

194 from interview with Gerald Coates

195 from interview with Roger Forster

196 Coombs (1996) p124

197 from interview with Mark Mumford


Thomas, Bell and Mumford were all against the over emphasis on fathering in case it could be perceived as controlling. There does seem to be a societal need for fathers. Dufty 199 considers ‘fathering has become popular, so God is clearly saying something to this era, linked to a fatherless society’. In his essay on the subject of the changing views of fathering, W. Merle Longwood200 sets out a theory that the need for fathering needs a re-examination in the light of shared parenting and working. He goes on to quote Samuel Osherson in mid 1980’s

I think there is a tremendous yearning in men to have more connection with their children... there’s very definitely a trend for fathers to become more involved.

If it is true that our modern society has a high need for fathers, however they are presented. It would be also true that in the church the motif of the father will be in greater demand for those that lead the church, especially the apostle. In Walker’s 201 key text he talks about the unhappiness of leaders feeling abandoned by their apostle fathers ‘restoration was supposed to be based on a paternal, filial model of personal relationships, what kind of family is it he asked, when you don’t see dad?‘ Kay 202 is nervous about confusing the issue of fathering with apostles: ‘spiritual fathers and apostles are not the same subject’; although he agreed with my summary that all apostles should be spiritual fathers but not all spiritual fathers apostles. In a recent article by Kevin Miller 203 on the need for spiritual fathers and mothers he reflects that:‘the emerging adults (18-30) in my church hunger for spiritual fathers and mothers to help them get there’ drawing their experiences of suffering and failure to guide the next generation through the maze of life.

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199 from interview with Gareth Dufty

200 Redeeming Men, ed Stephen B Boyd, W.Merle Longwood, and Mark W. Muesse. (1996) Westminster John Knox Press p239

201 Walker (1998)

202 from interview with William Kay

203 Relevant Dude to Spiritual Father, Leadership Journal Summer 2011 by Kevin A Miller

The rise of teaching on the ‘father heart of God’ by John Arnott, Mark Stibbe and Jack Frost has put the issue of a father’s heart truly on the agenda.204 Bill Johnson 205 has imbibed this notion into his apostolic role

Apostles are first and foremost fathers by nature...gathering around fathers gives a stability that enables people to endure differences in opinion ..fathers bring an element of peace that is impossible without them...apostolic teams .. carry the ‘family mission’ without selfish agendas.

Rossel206 had an emphasis on being faithful as a son so you are qualified to express the father but seemed to stop short in embracing the call of being a father not just expressing The Father. Alan Roxburgh 207 lays out an interesting notion of a ‘communitas’ with an abbot (father) at the centre of it, sending out teams of Ephesians 4 ministries to the mission field. This is not too far from Bell’s208 idea of ‘team with a vision.’

Women?

The discussion on fathering makes the whole subject of apostles very male. Mumford209 questioned whether there is ‘no scope for Jackie Pullinger, Heidi Baker or the like?’ Rosie Ward 210 completed a rather excellent study on apostolic women

Jesus commissions Mary with the task of telling the good news of the resurrection to his brothers, the eleven apostles. No wonder she has been called the ‘apostle of apostles’

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204 The Toronto movement has made a main doctrinal feature of the Father Heart of God, which has now influenced a stream of churches connected to the Revival Alliance. The strength of this teaching is that it highlights a need in society and a refocus on the nature of God as a loving father. The weaknesses is that it uses the language of children and encourages adults to relate to God in the language of children, leaders will often be heard using ‘papa’ or ‘daddy’ when addressing God.

205 From unpublished notes from Bill Johnson

206 from interview with Ian Rossel

207 Roxburgh (2005) p180

208 from interview with Stuart Bell


210 Ed Martyn Percy & Christina Rees, Apostolic Women, Apostolic Authority Canterbury Press (2010)

211 and ‘if the qualification of an apostle is to have been with Jesus and witnessed his resurrection then she qualified’.212

This is an area that needs a more detailed investigation.

Shepherding

There is a difference between the apostle as a shepherd and the shepherding movement. Like the term father, the apostle needs to have a care for people but nowhere in my research did the idea of the apostle being a shepherd raise its head. In the context of leadership in general, the leader is to express a shepherd’s heart to the people they are leading, but it doesn’t seem to figure in the descriptions of the apostle. The only context appears to be when the apostles are identified with the shepherding movement. Most of the leaders of the NCM would, however, probably concur with Tomlinson213 (then an R1 apostle) who said that ‘if anyone, in the name of shepherding, demanded absolute and unconditional obedience, he would forthwith declare their demand absolute and unconditional nonsense.’ Roy Peacock’s book ‘The Shepherd and Shepherds’ examines the theme of the shepherd fully, and is uneasy about the role of the apostle in any hierarchical sense. Virgo214 warns the church an

Over-emphasis on the pastoral role can result in pre-occupation with needs. We could become need-centered instead of apostolic and prophetic, thereby missing God’s intention and forgetting the bigger picture, building churches that gradually become foreign to the atmosphere of the New Testament.

I wonder if our current lack of clarity on apostles stops the church from expanding in kingdom terms today.

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211 Chrysostom refers to her as an apostle in his epistle to the Romans 3i

212 Junia is referred to as an apostle (Rom 16:7), to whom John Chrysostom commented ‘how great is the wisdom of this woman, that she should be even counted worthy of the appellation of apostle’ and even Calvin explained in his commentary ‘Paul is referring to those who planted churches, by bringing the doctrine of salvation to various places as apostles’.


214 Terry Virgo, Apostles & Church Leaders

Teams

‘Team life is enjoyable, Team life is beneficial. Team life provides companionship’ says Devenish.215 A huge emphasis of the NCM was the sense of team. For Thomas216 it is a key function of the apostle they get ‘teams working together..pastors can lead to a measure but they need to understand who they are and what they're not..team is vital.’ It seems to be a feature of the early days that there was a flow within the informal team, there was a mutual honouring even in the debates that took place. It is a pity that the very relational strength that they discovered together was not sustainable. They were unable to keep a relational bond at the height of divergent opinions. Coombs217 lays out a fairly clear pattern for team, ‘the leader needs to be an apostolic father..team members must be joined to the apostolic leader..team members must be team players.’ This was team but led strongly.

One of the other ideas to emerge from teams is the idea of apostolic hubs or centres. Kay 218 likes this idea ‘it is useful as it allows for the use of more fuzzy language so a movement does not get tied up in structural uniformity.’ Essentially the apostolic centre is built around the ministry of an apostle, the current format for the Pioneer group of churches is to build apostolic hubs within a key church. Noble219 says ‘I imagine the original cathedral communities and monastic orders were intended to be such places of prayer and ministry where vision, teaching, care and oversight were dispensed.’ Roger Ellis, part of the current leadership team of Pioneer, identifies three characteristics of apostolic centers they are ‘catalysts to encourage fresh thinking and radical new ways..nurture co-operation..exchange dreams and visions to ensure they become a reality’ and Noble adds another ‘we must look after what God has entrusted to us’ caring for people!

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215 Devenish (2011) p231

216 from interview with Steve Thomas

217 Coombs (1996) p95

218 from interview with William Kay

219 Noble (2002) p94

Succession

In the main the NCM has not handled succession very well at all. Covenant Ministries, the great movement of Bryn Jones split into many pieces, some out of frustration and some with a proper sense of release and blessing. Kay220 commenting on Salt & Light says

Apostolic leadership is handed on, even when the original apostle is still alive and well. This is highly significant and boosts the long term survival expectations of all kinds of apostolic networks in their original form.

As I interviewed the current leaders of Salt & Light I would concur with Kay that the structured handing on of the movement has left it intact. It is seeking to find fresh vision for the next stage but it represents one of the NCM’s better examples of succession. McElroy221 says ‘we can no longer assume that spiritual succession will just happen.’ From my interview 8/10 saw their success in raising up of others; the next generation of leaders are a key sign of success.

5.6 Motif : Action

In my literature study I identified four areas, entrepreneur, church planter, missionary and pioneer. I am going to deal with them all together rather than separately. During the interviews there was a very clear sense of the need to get things done. Kennedy was the only leader to use the descriptor ‘entrepreneur’. It was one of the bottom statements in the survey. Like the word ‘boss’, which was the lowest, it is perhaps the confusion with the language of business that hinders our understanding of an apostle.

Church planting is a high priority for Virgo222 ‘our style is more evangelistic or church planting.’ He sees it as one of their commissions. NFI were influenced by Kriengsak from Thailand, a very dynamic church planting apostle. In the survey church planting was seen

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220 Kay (2007)

221 McElroy (2006)

222 from interview with Terry Virgo

more as a past thing that what is wanted in the future. Noble223 said ‘church planting and miracles are important but not the main thing’.

Virgo224 continues: ‘Apostolic is carrying the great commission, every church needs to be a missionary church, needs an apostolic mission..the apostolic gift is to help churches step into their apostolic mandate which is missional.’

Although the word missionary is somewhat antiquated, the apostles being motivators for mission is very clear. Five leaders interviewed saw mission as being the most important future apostolic mandate. We need to be ‘catching people up on world mission’ says Virgo225. Noble226 laments the ‘loss of of the pioneering thrust’ although it was still in the top five attributes of the survey. Torres227 says ‘the apostolic ministry is a pioneer ministry’ and the describes them as frontiersmen who are ‘precursors and pioneers are almost always misunderstood and mistreated.’ Coates recognised this motif by calling his movement ‘Pioneer’, and when Kennedy took over after a long deliberation about a new name they ended up calling it ‘Pioneer’!

Noble’s228 attitude has changed with age ‘in the past a pioneering man that would forge ahead, now I have more of a servant heart’’ and Bell229 said he has ‘made a move from the sharp pioneering role to the mentoring role’ so perhaps age is mellowing our once intrepid explorers. Hirsch 230 for me has captured the essence of the mandate for the action apostles, ‘to embed a missional DNA through pioneering new ground for the gospel and church and guard missional DNA through the application and integration of apostolic theology.’

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227 Torres (2001)

228 interview with John Noble

229 interview with Stuart Bell

230 Hirsch (2006)

5.7 Motif : Authority

From my interviews it became clear that the context for any form of authority to be exercised was relational. Direction or counsel can only be given from a place of friendship and trust (7 out of 11 interviewees). Most of the leaders interviewed used some sort of reference to a family or clan as the best paradigm for this sort of relationship. Dufty and Forster spoke about the apostle being the prime communicator of vision for the family/clan/movement. Forster and Virgo stressed the importance of the communication of doctrinal truth. Coates, Noble and Bell all emphasised that all authority must be from God! It seems that from my sample of leaders, the days of more directive controlling leadership have passed; authority is now couched in terms of a servant leader. Lyne231 says:

The primary purpose of authority should be redemptive rather than destructive, and even where a process of discipline is warranted, this should be handled with particular care ...and always with the hope of ultimate reconciliation.’

Governmental

The outworking of apostolic authority is the process of governance within the local church. Trying to find the appropriate metaphor for the relationship of the apostle to the local church has proved to be challenging for the leaders of the NCM. Tomlinson232 tongue in cheek suggested ‘shall we say that the apostle is the chief executive, and the prophet the advertising whizz kid’ , using business speak, while not the best metaphor, it is perhaps this autocratic leadership model that has caused many of the NCM’s problems. Dufty233 raised the issue that it is the individuals background in determining the style of church structure. Dufty is right, careful consideration needs to be given to the influences on an individual apostle. Every one of them has had good and bad experiences that will shape what they are building. If we embrace the idea that the apostle’s ministry is a reflection of their personality, and if they are a gift of God, then it is the person that is the gift, with all their idiosyncrasies.

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231 Lyne (1999)

232 Walker (1998)

233 from interview with Gareth Dufty

Not one of the leaders interviewed is advocating a top down hierarchical model any more. Some have reasoned that strong directive leadership was necessary in the pioneering stages of the NCM but ‘pioneering apostles’ must give way to ‘building apostles’234. Davies235 reflects on the early days of the NCM

Members submit to their house group leaders (deacons), deacons submit to elders who are pastors in the local church; elders submit to the apostles who have authority over the churches who accept their covering; apostles submit to each other, and of course, all submit to Christ who is recognised as head of the whole church.

Interesting that the words ‘submit’ and ‘covering’ were entirely dropped from the language of all the leaders that I interviewed, these words were key phrases in the foundation of the NCM, but like the word ‘shepherding’ have become code for overbearing control. I also wonder if submission has gone out of vogue in society. We can blog, tweet and post our views, our politicians tell us that our views matter and our retailers tell us ‘you are worth it’, why would I need to submit to anyone.

David Matthews236 asks whether the role of the apostle is ‘executive or advisory. Can the apostle overrule local church leaders, or does he have to settle for expressing an opinion and leaving the final decision to the local men?’ At the time of writing this he concluded that ‘opinions are polarised’; but went on to fire a prophetic warning shot into the NCM

An apostle who insists on a permanently executive role is asking for trouble. He can only produce a brood of perpetual dependents who will keep him spinning plates till he keels over with exhaustion.

Some of the streams of the NCM have abandoned the use of the term apostle although not its function, perhaps Stuart Bell’s Groundlevel is an example. Some are rediscovering its function again in a new light, like Billy Kennedy’s Pioneer; or have kept the faith with the role but are looking for a new ways of articulating, like Virgo NFI and Thomas/Mumford Salt & Light. I am sure there are those groups that have given up altogether with the idea

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234 from interview with Steve Thomas

235 Davies (1986)

236 David Matthew, 1999 website

of apostles. It is interesting that Tomlinson who was one of the NCM’s most articulate thinkers has become an Anglican vicar in London, who is pursuing a different kind of spirituality.237

Walker238 described the NCM system of government as looking like ‘a charismatic episcopacy.’ The ‘original R1 apostles operated with groups of churches like bishops’ and Kay239 agrees ‘the apostolic network carries echoes of an episcopal system of government (since the apostle is analogous to the bishop).’ From the inside of the NCM Tomlinson240 in his restorationist days had said

Contrary to a first impression there is not an emphasis on rank or order, rather of relationships which are deeply personal..it is a question of personal relations rather than organisation.

Perhaps Tomlinson is giving us an insight into the heart and intension of these men. Even in my interviews there are different recollections and interpretations of what actually took place. Dufty and Rossel who were both released by Bryn Jones into their ministry differ in their view of history, Dufty arguing there was not a model where Rossel, now flowing with Bethel, says there was a very strong governance model.241 I don’t think there is any doubt that the difference in the R1 and R2 models of government revolved around the nature of the relationship of the apostle to the elders. Did they rule or serve? What happened was a confusion between the equipping ministries of Ephesians 4 and the idea of governmental bishops and elders. When an apostle was also was an overseer242of a local church then their role was much more of an executive one. The apostle who is a senior pastor of a local church has more direct governmental responsibility that an apostle who walks alongside a church. Osgood and Bell highlighted the issues of when apostles detach themselves from the leadership of a local church. Perhaps apostles who cease to be

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237 www.davetomlinson.co.uk

238 Walker (1998)

239 Kay (2006)

240 Thurman (1982) p62

241 from interview with Ian Rossel and Gareth Dufty

242 same word as bishop

http://www.davetomlinson.co.uk

http://www.davetomlinson.co.uk

senior local leaders have a loss of identity? This idea was explored by Stephen Sykes243, he quotes Stuart Blanch on the conflict that archbishops face on retirement

They may long for apostolic simplicity, but if they preside over large budgets, have pastoral care for large numbers of clergy and are looked to by the public for spiritual and moral guidance their lives will be full of irresolvable tensions.

I’m sure that apostles in the NCM faced all the same emotions. All the interviewees would say that authority rests in the local church with appointed leaders.

The language of government has returned to the original desire of the NCM early founders, it is relational. Tomlinson244 describes a non-relational model ‘like nailing a branch to a tree trunk with a six-inch nail and then looking for fruit!’ Bethel have coined the phrase to describe their apostolic model as ‘relational government’. Virgo245 talked about avoiding some of these issues but creating governance around vision and prayer and Rossel 246 introduced a new phrase ‘equality of brotherhood.’ Governance by mutual respect, honour for each other, a recognition of each others gifts and centering on prayer sounds like a good model for the future. I would like to point to John Noble as a man who has had huge influence in the shaping of the NCM yet has released control and power, even rolling his network into Pioneer without a particular role. Does he represent a type of apostle that has spoken about humility and walked it?

Power & Control

Nine of the leaders interviewed saw the greatest weakness of the NCM as being the control, arrogance and division that entered in. Virgo would say it was the result of unbiblical thinking. The problem identified by Turner247 at the root of church structure is that the NCM apostles were ‘at the centre of the ecclesiastical wheel.. seen as having the

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243 Stephen Sykes, Power and Christian Theology, Continuum 2006

244 Matthews (1988) p27


246 from interview with Ian Rossel


ultimate spiritual authority in the church, and he was head of the shepherding chain.’ In other words they got used to a level of power and control and found it hard, if not impossible to give it up easily. Perhaps this is a quality associated with pioneers, you have to be fairly tough and determined to be one, and now the NCM needs builders. The language has totally changed. No one from my interview group advocates the ‘control’ paradigm, very few people from the survey see apostles as ‘boss’. The survey shows a change in the emphasis on some of the motifs for the future. It shows a decrease in the categories of ‘senior leader’ (-9%), ‘boss’(-6%) and ‘government’ (-8%). People no longer expect apostles to be in control. Instead they want ‘vision’ (+6%), ‘fathers’ (+11%) and ‘strategy’ (+8%). The days of control and power are dying if not dead.

Signs and Wonders

I was surprised that there was not more emphasis on a signs and wonders ministry. With the rise in prominence that healing has in the NCM today and the miracles associated with the New Testament apostles from whom our modern day apostles are modelled, I would have expected miracles to be a factor. Only Noble, Rossel and Kennedy mentioned miracles or signs & wonders, although people saw ‘spiritual breakthrough’ as being important. I am not sure whether this is due to the lack of the miraculous in church or whether it really isn’t that important. There are other writers, particularly North American, who would maintain that it is essential for an apostle to move in signs and wonders248. With healing becoming more common in our churches,249 with an emphasis placed on signs and wonders by influential global groups like ‘Revival Alliance,’250 the NCM may well need to reappraise the seriousness of their desire for the miraculous as evidence of the apostolic gift. This area needs more investigation.

Spheres of Influence, City Transformation & Unity

Jockeying for power, collecting churches or boasting about the size of network was not a feature of any of the conversations. Leaders spoke about their emphasis and their own call, but there did not seem to be any animosity or anger expressed toward any other

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248 James Maloney, Dancing Hand of God (

249 Healing on the streets, Bethel Church

250 A group comprising John Arnott, Che Ahn, Bill Johnson, Georgian Banov, Heidi Baker, Randy Clark

network, in fact the opposite. The calling of the leader by God is an area that needed more exploration in the interviews. Some touched on it but no leader went into detail about the nature of their call experience although it seems to be a fairly important part of the New Testament apostles experience. In unrecorded conversations with the leaders there were many indications of friendship and affection between leaders of the different networks. At a recent gathering in London called by Bell and Kennedy251 over 600 leaders from all parts of the NCM gathered to celebrate the fathers of the movement, the achievements and the future. What was seen a great declaration of unity and intention to work together for the future. There was a declaration of intent (appendix D) to ‘stand together..support and affirm one another’, a major step forward on the road to unity. Two of the leaders interviewed saw transformation in the city as a future success criterion.

Wagner252 does make a valuable contribution in all of these areas. His work on ‘Spheres of Authority’ although criticised by some, helps to define something that may well be happening. He calls for apostles to recognise themselves and other apostles, and identify apostles of a city. He253 concludes ‘apostles function best when things are in order’ and imagines the arrival of ‘city apostolic councils’. Although none of the leaders interviewed communicated a vision of this, Bell has significant influence in Lincoln, Kennedy in Southampton, Osgood & Forster in London, Mumford in Derby, Thomas in Oxford, it is worthy of further investigation what city wide apostolic influence looks like.

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251 ‘For Such a Time as This’ held at Westminster Chapel 22nd June 2012. I was present at this event.

252 see Virgo’s comments in interview

253 Wagner (2000)

Chapter 6 : Conclusions

My aim in this study was to discover whether there was a primary motif for the apostles of the NCM, what shifts have taken place and what can we expect from apostles in the NCM today.

In working towards a definition of an apostle it seems that the ‘apostolic personality’ is key. Rather than trying to define apostolic ministry by a series of tasks or outputs, understanding the unique calling of individual apostles is vital. It would be true to say that not all apostles have the same call or sphere in which to operate. At essence, a NCM’s apostle is one called and gifted by God for the specific heavenly mandate they have been given. Their task or function is going to vary depending on what they feel their mandate is. The character, and therefore ‘personality’, is tied up inextricably with the call; this can be the positive traits of the apostle and also their weaknesses. We should see apostles as a gift of a person, rather than the fulfillment of a job description.

An apostle is a spiritual role; so in defining them we should not superimpose a set of responsibilities or expectations that we may have; rather we need to make space for them to fulfill the role that God has mandated them to operate in. They are delegates of divine authority, a sort of ambassador of heaven, seeking to fulfill the mandate of the sender. To force them to be a CEO of an organisation or make them a network leader can be to deny them their calling. It would be true that some apostles are called to lead large churches and networks; some apostles are sent to change thinking and bring fresh teaching; some apostles operate in breakthrough anointing and pioneer new kingdom enterprise; but this is not in some way a norm for them all. They do however, bring something of heaven’s agenda to earth, contextualise Christ for every generation and are caught up with a wider vision that goes beyond local church.

Grundy’s leadership dimensions of heroic, entrepreneurial, managerial, thought and social leadership, help to make this point. Each of these could be applied to the function of the apostle, but not every apostle will operate in these dynamics. In the NCM there has been a shift from the founding apostles to a new generation of apostles that need to build on what their fathers have left them.

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We must be careful of polluting the early NCM’s ideas with those that are birthed in the USA. The British movement was part of something larger, but it was significantly different in emphasis and style. In the last twenty years, there has been increased shaping by ideas that have emerged from America, so it would be harder to find in todays NCM a particular strain of British thought; however, the founding fathers’ emphasis is still present.

In terms of the pervading motifs that I have sought to identify I would conclude as follows :

There has been a shift away from the language of authority and government as the predominant paradigm of an apostle. They are no longer seen as the directive governmental force within local church. They of course may still hold positions of government within local church, they may still be senior leaders. Some of our current crop of apostles operate a form of bishop/apostle role. However, they do not all hold this role or exercise the forceful direction that their founding fathers may have.

Government and authority is being cast with the language of the ‘servant leader’; there is no longer any assumption that the apostle’s word is final; rather the NCM’s leaders are seeking to build a relational context from which to speak authoritatively. Seeing churches and leaders as relationships is key to the way in which the apostles exercise what authority they have. We should not assume by this statement that Godly governance is not an important factor in the mindset of an apostle, it is; they just seem to be more keen to operate it in the context of friendship.

There is also a move away from action based motifs worked out by entrepreneurial and pioneering leadership. Although apostles will operate in breakthrough anointing, they and their people are expressing a desire for a more visionary style of leadership. The emphasis in a post-pioneering movement is on mentoring others and creating success in the next generation.

Building is still a significant motif for the apostle. Although the leaders I interviewed all represent fairly significant networks or groups, I don’t think that they would cast a vision for building as just increasing the number of churches in their networks. Building is a foundational phrase rather than an organisational structural one. The emphasis is on building kingdom and not just building structure.

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Our motifs show there has been a move towards community leadership. Apostles are better described as visionary fathers offering strategic support to leaders, churches and ministries. Apostles see how things fit together, they join up the pieces so that the whole is created. They are more likely to articulate a picture or vision of heaven’s mandate on earth; or rediscover old truth and communicate a visionary message. The abusive controlling language of ‘shepherding’ has been jettisoned, yet there exists a shepherd’s heart. The motif of the ‘father’ comes across as a predominant theme; apostles are aware of the need for fathers in the church and seem to be taking the role of the spiritual father seriously. One should not read into this a sort of patriarchal father, rather a loving father who does what is needed to bring security to his family. It would be in this context that the apostle would teach, not necessarily hard truth, rather the truth spoken by a loving father.

I was fairly surprised that working in team did not figure more highly as a motif. It is clear that they value team, and would all operate in a form of team. However, I believe team work to operate in a more informal way than in the days when the networks were being formed.

Apostles seem to be putting mission on the agenda. Some have expressed it in church planting mission and others in kingdom enterprise. I believe that this area needs further research, to understand exactly what apostles understand by mission and where they see the mission field. If there is a motif to emerge over the next ten years I would suggest it is the motif of mission.

In the early days of the NCM, there was a deep bond of fellowship between the founding apostles. This was lost over the years. However, my optimistic observation is that this is returning. Once again the relational foundation between apostles is becoming apparent, perhaps they are learning from the mistakes of the fathers? I see the rise of a ‘unity’ agenda for the transformation of our cities, as something that a future generation of apostles will take on seriously. Perhaps this is another motif that will rise to the foreground in years to come.

There are a number of areas which this study has not been able to explore in sufficient depth. The rise of apostolic women; the nature of apostolic influence as opposed to structural power; the rise of city apostles; whether suffering is necessary to develop the

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apostolic gift; the current eschatological view of the apostles of the NCM; the loss of network identity and people’s multiple affiliations networks or no network254 .

I do not think that I was able to probe sufficiently the ‘influences on apostolic thinking’. My questionnaire (Q7) did not gather sufficient reflection on what external factors have influenced the NCM. I would also have liked to have probed further on how an apostle would measure the success of their ministry; I wonder if my desire to have a metric is further evidence of the influence of ‘John Maxwell leadership’ thinking in me! Although my survey did uncover some interesting trend information, I would have liked to have had a broader base of respondents from a greater number of streams. I would have liked to have measured the differences in under 40 thinking from the over 40’s, and also to have seen whether there was any differences in a male/female view of apostles.

However, this research project has effectively uncovered some past and current thinking about apostles from the NCM. It has articulated them in a series of motifs.

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254 I was particularly interested in why so many of the responses to the survey could not identify their network or affiliation.

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Appendices

Appendix A - Bryn Jones ‘Hallmarks of the apostle and his ministry’________________________________________________________________________

-a personal encounter with the resurrected Lord-personally commissioned-fulfill his apostleship is some other gifting for example profit, evangelist or teacher-equipper of the saints-good steward of the mysteries of the-he will be recognised and be recognised in his apostleship-a wise master builder of the house of God-demonstrate and apostles authority given by Christ-demonstrate grace and wisdom in his relationships with people so that a sphere of apostolic ministry and influence emerges in the lives of those people-man pursuing a vision-filled with persevering faith-the with the living example of all that he wants people to become and do-focusing Christ does not boast of his own status-apostles are the first among the ministries in building the church of God, because they lay a foundation of understanding concerning the mystery of Christ… In human terms, they are the first in the responsibility and the last in reward255

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255 Jones (1999)

Appendix B - Post Apostolic view of apostles________________________________________________________________________

As part of my investigations I wanted to find out if the NCM leaders were influenced or took inspiration from an early church post-apostolic view of apostles. At some point in the first three centuries the role of the apostle becomes synonymous with the role of the bishop. In the episcopal model of church (which R1 had many similarities with, more on that later) the bishop is anointed in ‘apostolic succession’. They do not necessarily act as apostles but carry something of the authority of one. It was at the end of the first century when Clement of Rome, known as the first apostolic father, set the tone for the idea of apostolic succession.256 Throughout the first and second century the function of the apostle carried on, Clement257 makes an analogy with the apostles on the bells at the bottom of the priests robes, and in the vision of the Pastor of Hermas they are referred to as white stones.258 The church historian Drobner259comments on the second century that ‘the charismatic offices (apostle, prophet, teachers) still enjoy prominence.’

It is important not to make huge claims in any short summary of the apostle in the early church. However, there is evidence to suggest that the role existed beyond the original first century apostles, but that in the following centuries the role was subsumed within the increasingly powerful role of bishops. I discovered that there is very little evidence that the founding fathers of the NCM took any notice of the early church’s attitude to apostles. I am not aware of any serious research being done in the early days of the NCM, they would have taken all their inspiration for the reinstatement of apostles from the New Testament.

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256 Quoted in Battenson (1969) p32, Clement says that ‘the apostles received the gospel for us from the Lord Jesus Christ : Jesus the christ sent from God... appointed their first fruits, after testing them by the spirit to be bishops’

257 First Epistle of Clement, Dialogue with Trypho, ch XLII

258 The Pastor of Hermas, AD160 Vol II p14, Vision 3 Chapter 5

259 Herbutus R Drobner, The Fathers of the Church, (2007) Hendrickson pub

Appendix C - Interview with William Kay_______________________________________________________________________

Skype call 1st November

He suggested that I was careful not to muddle up a look on apostles in relation to the British new church movement with USA thinkers, unless you can track a connection. People like John Noble were very anti a USA dimension of thought.

Restoration Magazine on pdf www.revival-library.org, David Matthews worth following up

One dimension that William felt has polluted the apostolic thinking in recent years has been the mixing up of the theology of apostle with the leadership teaching of John Maxwell, presenting apostles as CEO’s of churches. He believes that there has been a tendency to increase the power of the individual by using the language of apostle, it sorts of gives a biblical credibility. A recent example in Bristol of a church group (apostle) selling off land and not being accountable for it.

One of the aspects of the founding fathers of the new church movement was that they took their definition of apostle from the scripture rather than some hybrid theological - business speak, taking business language and making it theological.

In Salt & Light the OCC group of churches tended to operate under one charity so they were able legitimately to move resources around the network. So the organisation became useful to the vision of the churches.

We discussed the idea that spiritual fathers is a good descriptor for apostles. William felt they were different subjects rather than the same, I clarified and said that all apostles should be spiritual fathers but not all spiritual fathers are apostles, which he seemed to agree.

We talked about the issue of all submission is voluntary and can not be demanded by anyone. Apostles should demonstrate love in order to gain loyalty and trust.

This led on to the issue of succession. Why have the apostolic movement been so bad at bringing on leaders? William commented that lots of people fancy themselves as leaders of a movement so jockey for power!

We discussed the idea of apostolic hubs which is basically what NFI are doing with countries. It is how Wimber resolved the succession issues in Vineyard, set up each country as a separate vineyard entity and let them relate at a top level on values. The idea of hubs allows the use of fuzzy language to communicate values rather than trying to bed the movement down in organisational uniformity.

We were puzzled as to the demise of bible weeks in many of the movements when New Wine and Ground Level have flourished in their bible weeks. Is the demise of the bible week the cause of decline or a symptom of it?

Commenting on a key leader William felt that personal suffering made an apostle more humble and approachable. CEO don’t care but apostles do!

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http://www.revival-library.org

http://www.revival-library.org

Appendix D - Interview with NCM Leaders________________________________________________________________________

Interview with Billy Kennedy, Pioneer & Cnet

Date - 21st December 2011

Definition : If you were to describe and apostle in one or two words what would you say and why? What would you say was the difference between Apostle and Apostolic?

Father - the need to build and gather, don't just leave. Fathers build, gather, give identity to a community and not just individuals, sow the seed of the gospel of transformation

Breakthrough - being anointed by God to see new things happen, darkness pushed back, establish community, the entrepreneurial piece. Authority as an ambassador of heaven.

Apostolic - our goal is to be an apostolic community, looking for stuff beyond self, the community is being propelled into mission, equip the body to be community

Everyone can be apostolic, but the reality everyone is not but should be. Church should be apostolic, it needs to have apostles if it wants to be this. Apostolic is about alignment.

Party Line : What is your networks view, if any? Has it changed over the years?

Cornerstone - Tony moved away from BJ more directive style of apostle, he would talk of apostolic ministry and never talked of himself being an apostle. one of his sayings was ‘apostle is not impositional, but impartational and inspirational’. He came to the view that you can only really effectively oversee 6 churches at any one time.

Martin Robinson ... ‘I thought apostles were supposed to plant churches not collect them’. In early days it was all very directional, moving people about. On reflection TM view changed, and got more disillusioned (probably due to an personal circumstances).

Tony begun to regionalise Cnet, in the final 7 years there was some very strong group connections. The issues for Tony at the end were his marriage and driven by money. If home is happy things tend to work out.

Tony was both a Father and had the breakthrough anointing

BK can ‘serve’ others as well as ‘oversee’

Pioneer - direction by permission. We get invited in to help bring direction. When I come to someone then I bring all that I am.

Authority : What is the nature of apostolic authority? How does it work in practice?

All Sp is to serve.

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R1 got it wrong about the use of authority, but they had better teaching and more theology on the authority of the apostle, but they put it through their filters. R1 clearly saw something in in scripture, and interpreted it. In many circles there is still a massive reaction to the apostle because the word conjures up this imposed authority.Father has authority for the good of those in his family. We get the power to make a difference in someone’s life, the father has responsibility to do good or bad. Authority invested in someone carries weight for good and bad. Authority to make a difference.

Church Governance : How do you see apostles in your structure? i.e. relation to overseers/elders/deacons?

Ultimate responsibility likes with the local church, apostles can add to decisions, they are more like consultants.

When go into setting feel that become an elder, certainly not everything I say goes!

Spiritual Fathering : Barney Coombes talks a lot about spiritual fathering as a motif for apostles. Do you agree? What does it look like? Do you think all apostles are spiritual fathers?

I think that all apostles have to be spiritual fathers, they are not really apostles if they are not.

People call themselves apostles because they travel but they are not really.

Apostles is more defined by fathering than any other of the ministries, it is really the definition of apostles. ‘sent one’ is breakthrough as a father mother

Overarching paradigm is father.

New Church : Review the history of the new church movement. What are the strengths and weaknesses of apostles?

+ broken out of dead traditions+ created flexible wineskins, Bonhoeffer talks about a church without trappings+ the gap in other movements like New Wine and Elim has been the apostle+ Bridge builders and bridging traditions - current

- arrogant, the new thing dismissed what existed- 75 if you said that from anglicanism the most productive evangelistic tool would arise e.g.

Alpha, everyone would laugh- misuse of authority- heavy shepherding

overall the balance is positiveinfluence on leaders

Influences : what have been the greatest influences on attitudes to the apostolic in the last 15-20 years? What are current influences?

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Toronto Deconstruction Disappointment

Home/Simple Church CEO/ Management New Evangelical (rob Bell)

De-churched Emergent Church Seeker

Purpose Driven Black Church

The abuses of extreme authority have negatively influenced

Wagner’s formulaic approach put a lot of people off the idea of apostolic, it created terminology but also a hierarchy. Perhaps a british thing

Many do not use the terminology of apostles at all

Future : Do you see any changes in the future of the apostolic?

Eph4 ap to mature the saints and work at unity, true ap ministry see this as a priority

Because the fathers do not get together the body is divided

Apostles find each other and the flow is unity

Not organisational unity

Fathers and mothers in one heart and mind

Hubs influence a region, like raindrops in a puddle the waves all intersect

Ap centres are critical for it to happen

Non competitive

Success : How would you know that an apostle has been successful? What are the markers?

Markers are qualities the identify someone- fruitful- signs and wonders, evidence of God and breakthrough- Evidence of fruit- cultural transformation, people saved and people affected

What flows from a recognised apostle is more of the same

Developed team

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Interview with Gerald Coates, Founder of Pioneer

14th November 2011


Apostle is the thumb on the hand that touches and values all the other ministries and gets them all to work together

Ministry of the apostle is to reconcile us to christ and to each other, major theme of reconciliation.

Apostle relates to each other with their different callings

Jack of all trades - traveller, preacher, reconciler. Paul makes a mistake with Mark

Perseverance is a strong mark of the apostle. 1 cor 13 never gives up

Apostolic is like prophetic, sit under an anointing.

GC never said he is an apostle, he has been apostolic

We stumbled into so much of what we found, based on commitment to each other.

14 broadly all were hungry after God, disconnected and then found each other

there were so few people to talk with


Not really one.

Pioneer did operate apostolically, relationship mellows judgements

All more low key. helped people to find their gifting

Absurd to call self an apostle. I am very agnostic about the title of apostles and prophet, look for function

Pioneer were accused as a ‘hoover machine’ but the reality is that we never went out to suck in others, I don’t think I ever asked anyone to join pioneer.

Probably pioneer needed an apostle but there were lots of strong influential leaders


role of apostle is to make doctrinal, moral and relational purity

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Authority come s from God. Paul battled with who he was all the time

Authority is just anointing. Comes from God. Paul never throws his weight around. He appeals to others, you have only got the authority that you are given.

Authority is a means to and end and not the end itself. In USA the term is used as a general, when it is used as a title I become uncomfortable, so we never went around calling ourself apostles

All titles of God are given to understand and invisible God... to moses God just said I am who I am - don’t tie me down with a title


In the end we do need some sort of government, that means order and leadership.

We don’t need to go on and on about government

1976 if we had all agreed we probably would have ended up as monochrome

the split came over a judgement of a moral issue, BJ thought that R2 was sloppy and Arthur wrote a letter.

The reality when the break came R1 got tighter and R2 got looser

The issue of the break up was never over apostles, but it became one of the main differences between the two.


Biblical evidence for fathers... timothy was definitely Paul’s son in lord

Tim carried Paul’s DNA

When people were with them they had been with Jesus. Carrying the same heart

Very difficult to be an apostle if you don’t have the heart of the father

Fathering is going back to the essential quality of the God head. God’s essence is love, he is father, he does judgement but it is not his essence. All fathers do judgement but that is not what defines them


Bryn lived by definition, less comfortable with ambiguityGod can make you a different person to different people

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There was a cultural gap of North and South

Southern brothers not too serious about the cultural aspects of church

Biggest strength of the apostles was when they discovered each together, all doing what they were doing on own and then found a connection.

They felt much bigger together and for a number of years they realised ‘together we could change the heart and face of the church in Britain’

There was lots of questions and passion

Oz Guinness in the Grave digger file, said that the devil doesn’t always come to us in our weakness where we are on our guard but attacks us in our strong points. in the 14 this was arrogance and pride, the belief that no one was like us.






there have barely been any conversations about the apostolic recently but the 20’s (DNA) talk about the apostolic all the time.

Younger people just don’t have a problem


Always been about the re-evangelisation of Britain, partnership

Heart for partnership in the gospel

What if the church existed so the gospel got to everyone

2nd coming of christ is directly linked to our capacity to share the gospel

the apostles of churches look for partnership

Success : the marks of an apostle?

we may have to wait for decades to find out

How do you rate success... Paul was lowered from a town in a basket? success

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By God’s grace, we were ahead of our theology, this group of people changed the heart and face of the church.

Interview with John Noble, Founder of Team Spirit/Pioneer

14th November 2011


‘Sent’ - the ability to move. Sent by God with something to do.

Primary task of the A is to bring the church to maturity, the gift of apostle was expressed in different ways both mobile and resident.

‘reconciliation’ chief work of Jesus was to do this. This is one of my specific calls ‘unity’ but it should also be a core belief of all apostles. ‘balance is in the body’, balanced bodies is in our relationships.

‘church planting and miracles are important but not the main thing’

One church expressed in many tribes and nations... the encouraging thing is that we as the body are more open to unity than we were.

Apostle and apostolic? apostolic is used of the body of Christ, the church, must be operating the great commission.


Never really had a party line. Always had a high value on respecting the beliefs of others.

Emphasis on reconciliation, on ministries working together.

Never really used the title of apostle, no one is an apostle to all!!

The essence of the R1 R2 split is that one used more emphasis on the authority of the apostle than the other although that was not the cause of the split.

Dangers of R1 is legalism, restrictive structure and controlDangers of R2 is License and extreme grace

The original 7 had an unfolding understanding of the apostolic

Influences GH Lang ‘churches of God’

Watchman Nee ‘Normal church life’

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Billy now good at reaching out to other groups, there is an ongoing apostolic spirit. Need to have more international connections so that there is a trans atlantic looking to the nations together.Authority : What is the nature of apostolic authority? How does it work in practice?

RI authority in the hands of the apostlesR2 in the hands of the churches

Authority is something that is given. God grants authority and it has to be recognised, so there is an understanding of vertical and horizontal authority.

The apostle has authority over moral, doctrinal teaching or heresy but even in that there is a willingness.

Authority is out of relationship, it is only if they respond.

Heresy is more to do with the enforcing of a view on people, it is an attitude rather than truth. Heresy is the imposition of a teaching.


Struggle with the idea of government being the right worked in church, it is a bad word to use on the context of church.

Leadership is better, it is about elevation or lifting

What is government actually?

Most of Government comes under the task heading, it is really understanding the idea of mutual submission.

Most things in kingdom are difficult to describe.

We recognise the gift of someone and of course defer to that gift, people see the gift in a person.

Hold gifts lightly


Fathering image is central to an understanding of the apostle.

Words have a habit of getting hijacked

Fathering is about help, supply, maturing, releasing

People can and do use fathering as a control mechanism, Gareth Dufty thinks it is a dangerous spirit.

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Fathering is helping the immature mature, to succeed, to bring up kids so they fulfill all they are.Fathering is about security, identity and source. Good word is source.

Headship is hierarchical, apostolic is about source.

Authority is not an objective of God, it is a means to an end. the goal is to bring people into fellowship.


Large church successful leaders don't make time to relate, we have to create time to value relationship.

Wheels within wheels is a good descriptor of the apostolic, a living expression of structure, this is the apostolic movement. Something mobile but still connected.

Perhaps some of the problems of the new church apostles was that we all took too much notice of our success rather than looking at what God was doing.

We kick started something that God was doing

Spring Harvest was a deliberate attempt to broaden out a picture of unity.

there are now many battles we don't need to fight anymore, kingdom, faith, freedom, simplified church

There were extremes which were more to do with personality rather than doctrine. BJ at one end of the spectrum and Maurice smith at the other end.

BJ had strong ambition, wanted success.. not sure how well we really know ourselves.

Insecurity in leaders was very strong, personal weaknesses got very emotional.

the 7/14 were very stubborn/strong personality/weakness/motivations

We all preached the gospel of relationships and then got tested on the very thing that we preached on

We must keep the vertical relationship with God in place so that we can work on the horizontal relationships




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Toronto gave us a much broader understanding of God’s movings with us

New generation of black leaders


Lots of hope for the future.Long to see cross international boundariesinfluence of Germany and BritainApostles raising a voice for the marginalised

Still a strong context of eschatology, apostles need to understand what GOd is doing and must understand the end times

Success : What is the mark of an apostles success?

‘joy of seeing people she/he worked with succeeding on greater things’

Interview with Gareth Dufty, Together

8th December 2011


Apostleship is not what we do but a calling to be one.Apostles usually show their apostleship through other mantles. e.g. CM became very prophetic because BJ was a highly prophetic person. He was an apostle functioning in an apostolic ministry. GC was a prophet functioning in an apostolic ministry.

‘chosen before the foundation of the world’ - there has to be a call of God, the person recognises the call and believe in it.There are characteristics that mark an apostle rather than qualifications for apostles (see his list as a separate sheet)Biblically the fundamental purpose of the apostle is to bring people to maturity.

On a wider front, the apostle manifests the nature of God, bringing the essence of God on earth.

Restoration was a big theme, the first thing that needed to happen was the apostles found each other so that we can demonstrate Jesus. The restoration of people to Jesus was the call of all the Eph 4 ministries, so we can restore Christ’s body. Paul continually defended his apostleship, if you loose the apostolic ministry then maturity alludes the net generation.

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CM never had a party line on the role of apostles, there were many manifestations of differing aspects of the apostolic.

It is necessary to know where your flow comes from

If there was a party line, BJ & KJ were very distinct apostles, and were different from the others, it is hard not to look at them and think ‘big apostles’. Apostles that lead big churches tend to overshadow everyone else.

Part of what they are about is the communication of diversity. It its about the characteristics, it may not be different in terms of theology but in practice feel different.


Apostolic vision superimposes vision on the local expression, but we are no longer in the era of inflicting vision on people.

Together makes no demand on finances, but there should be an expectation on a response from the people.CMI only culturally understood the autocrat leadership style, in fact we only knew that style.

‘authority is in the context of relationship, authority is different in each location’

Gift comes before authority, there is a functional authority.

Church Governance : How do you see apostles in your structure? ie relation to overseers/elders/deacons?

Churches were seen as the extension of apostles, they were there to resource the apostles ministry.

GD sees that he is there to serve the local church. The pas era was different, something was being established, but now the era is serving so he has left all the resources in the local church.

The ministries in the local churches are the places which need the resource

Out of 19 churches in Together, got about 2-3 people that are the seed for apostles.

In the past had a pioneering man that would forge ahead, now more of a servant heart.

When GD took over he released all the churches. He got 11 released others. So what exists now is what he has built.

He has an emotional feel for loughborough which he pastored

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‘our models are determined by our background, but the model is not really all that important’

He believes he must not violate what he is made to do

Must build to your calling


BJ never released people into ministry without an inheritence

For long time not seen apostleship with spiritual fathering, in a bit of a dilemma

To be an apostle you don’t need to be a spiritual father

Paul appealed but directed the church in corinth

Apostles don’t need to be at the head of a team

There are 14 characteristics• Governance of supernatural• wise master builder• Stewardship of the mystery• Sent• etc

Fathering has become popular, so God is clearly saying something to this era, linked to a fatherless society

The church is the fathering essence

Fathers name something, seed something, bring form and structure


+ve• created a new sense of structure• introduced a gospel of the kingdom• increased the influence of the gospel• Dispensationalism dying off, getting rid of the idea that we escape something• Restoring of the church

-ve• Too much organisational structure• Nature of person becomes stronger than the call• Preached body message but ended in conflict• Did not work out how to flow and be diverse• Competitive• Became exclusive

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• Dismissive of others• painted grand pictures but failed to get the right mentality•Influences : what have been the greatest influences on attitudes to the apostolic in the last 15-20 years? What are current influences?





Bethel is clearly a current influence.

I did think that apostleship was going to be lost to this generation but Bill J has started to stop that slide, introducing it to a wider setting

Kingdom message is a very positive influence, there is still a problem of a narrowness of interpretation of the kingdom. Healing for example is not the only manifestation of the kingdom that there is.

Toronto was an experience that refreshed by not really focussed on apostleship. It was positive in bringing a message of intimacy

We need a re-establishment of a trinitarian view to dislodge hierarchy


Importance of trinity. The nature of Male and Female in church government, no hierarchy in trinity, need to rediscover the unity of trinity

My theology produces architecture which produces action

trinity is not structural, each seeking the wellbeing of the other

Apostolic will each have a model to build something in order to manifest Christ

• Restoration is the goal of God• Kingdom is the hermeneutic• Covenant is the atmosphere of glory• Church is the manifestation


Don’t believe by in success in gospel, too much connotation with business.

What is the evidence? Christlikeness and maturity

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Interview with Ian Rossel, Leicester, Global Legacy, ex CMI

20th December 2011


1. Apostle means ‘sent one’, sent from the father as sons to express the father... one who carries the heart of the chief architect

2. Culture Shaper. Brings the culture from heaven to earth. John Eckhart, apostolos was a term that Romans gave to generals, one thing to conquer a territory another thing to perpetuate a culture.

Apostolic is the nature of the apostle. Not all people are prophets but can be prophetic. All are sent, the church is apostolic and some are designated apostles.

Apostles are to equip the church to be apostolic ie be a world changer and culture changer in line with heaven


CMI - churches belonged to the apostles. The apostle was the defacto senior elder of all churches, there to help apostles to accomplish ministry. This inevitably produces hierarchy.

Now - Apostles are foundational, not over but supportive. Empowering, releasing, fathers, helping sons and daughters to go further.


Has to be in the context of the servant king

All authority is for the benefit of those on the ground, fathers authority is not for his benefit but for the benefit of the family.

Lay down life. The expectation of authority is that the apostles heart would be heard rather than demanded. Paul said ‘I appeal’ rather than I demand (1 Thess 2:6f) he could have made demands but didn’t.

My primary identity has to be as a son and so relate to others as a brother.


Everything has to measured by the strength of relationship.

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To the corinthian church he is very directional. ‘put that immoral person out’ he had the right to speak like that because of the nature of the relationship. To the the Roman church he had no direction but to ‘impart a spiritual gift’

Relationship between the apostle and elder is about ‘equality of brotherhood’, celebrating one father as brothers.

In the context of love and honour then grace and gifting flows.. love and honour must be first then gift. Our value must never be based on the gift!

‘first apostle’ is the process of building not the importance or value of the gift.


Apostles are fathers and CEO’s.

If organisation is the primary paradigm they will be CEO.

Fathers protect and release, know when to do something and in what priority.

Wisdom is an apostolic gift. Gets the timing right on when do do something

Apostles are sent ones, their primary identity is to be a faithful son. Jesus reveled in his sonship. Faithful sonship positions one to be a father.

Is 9:6-7. Faithfulness of sonship qualified us to express the father

I delight in sonship an express fatherhood. Context must be the healing of the heart, or otherwise we default into elder brother


+veDesire to catch the fresh wind of the the spirit and flow in itBe ready to let go of old paradigms

-veMajor flaw is the slowness to accept fresh revelation, danger is believing we are it.The problem with fresh revelation is that it became exclusiveWhat we know stops us from recovering what we know.


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Toronto Deconstruction Disapointment




‘Bethel’, culture of honour, honouring one another should be a quality of apostles

Major negative influence is the the unhealed heart, the apostle becomes competitive, brothers who collect churches, we should celebrate each other without competition.

e.g. Saul slayed 1000’s while David slayed 10,000’s, saul should have celebrated David but instead got jealous.

Honour transforms it to be co-operation not competitiveness.

By getting hearts healed we become true sons.

An apostle only can operate in what he receives from heaven, you cant grasp it, it is by grace.


Deep desire is that the apostolic fathers can celebrate each other and flow together for the benefit of the whole. This is beginning to happen. Great when friends (apostles) visit and bring something to the family.


Heavenly culture1. People loving one another2. is there a culture of the supernatural and the flow of miracles flows easily3. transformed cities

Interview with Stuart Bell, Groundlevel

Date - 22nd December 2011


Sent has a sense of sending from heaventend to steer away from titlestalk about a team with a vision of being sent, how to see a city or region transformed, equipping people/church carrying the love of Christ into the workplace.

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SB is cautious about using the name apostle, this can be used by people, and the word is heard in a hierarchical sense, so SB would tend to clothe the language of the apostolic

Apostolic is to do with the function of the apostle. You wouldn't call a plumber ‘plumber smith'. In America the 10 2 million people, however we tend to resist anything that suggests a hierarchy, but SB realises the need to recognise the gift.

The paradigms should be how I can serve you


Some would say that SB is wooly when it comes to the name apostle.

Apostolic movements demonstrates themselves in regions and territories

Ground level now has nine regions and SP would not call them all apostles so this takes the pressure of local leaders. It is more of a pragmatic decision. However he would see that some of his regional leaders are in fact apostles but would not push the language of apostles.

SP felt at a young age that he was an apostle, but also felt fairly constrained. Being an apostle is who I am, and the nature of the apostle is to go broader.

Saskatchewan comment, does an apostle need to be recognise as an apostle in order for them to function as one?


Authority has been God-given and recognise stop

Paul said I am at least an apostle to you, the greatest security of knowing that you are an apostle is in the fact that the churches that look to you and give you authority.

In ground level SP is given lots of freedom to make big calls.

You only have authority when authority is given and you need to be under authority

It works in ground level because there are aggrieved structures, the churches respond well to apostolic input. There is also an agreed authority to any moral or heretical issues


Each local church is autonomous.

Through the building of relationships of trust there is also a recognition in the local that they need something bigger than themselves and receive apostolic input. Most of the time it works, you only know it works when it is tested.

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Not many churches have pulled away from ground level, you need to have wisdom on how to handle authority, held loosely but clearly.

Where an apostle gives up the local congregation it does not work as well the local fossil retains a senior leadership vision. Because SB always felt that ground level was to be a model he has remain in the leadership this gives more credibility to the model.

When churches are connected to an apostolic centre it is better, because they gain support and strength.

The apostolic is more credible when it is displayed in the local


BC has acted in a fatherly role to SB on a number of occasions

The instinct to father becomes stronger as one gets older, so SB has made a move from the sharp pioneering role to the mentoring role

SB in the last five years has spent more time with the next generation leaders and so the scene has changed where there is more diversity

Family is an important turn in the kingdom, but needs to be handled wisely as a term, it is important is that the model does not stifle the opportunities for the next generation


+In local church life the influence of the apostolic movement have been amazing bikini issue has been the transformation of worship.

+The Word and spirit dimensional, where like-minded people have found each other where you believe in the Bible, has reshaped the UK e.g. Spring harvest etc

+There has been a huge growth in the church and if it were not for the new church movement Christianity in Britain may well be in trouble (para sk)-Potential for exclusiveness-A sense of control and feel better than others-Zion language, harvesting taking the land etc-Lots of people hurt by being left out-Lots of hurting people

Although I do detect a a humbling and softening taking place


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A negative influence has been deconstructionism, but this is now going out of fashion

The genuine nature of the apostle has always existed even though the has not been recognised, and there is probably less cynicism than 10 years ago, so the apostolic understanding is back on the agenda.

Many ideas from the USA has been somewhat clinical in helping our understanding of the apostolic, how we package our understanding is quite important

People should not be afraid to use the language of apostle where it is fitting and observed.

A positive influence has been the rise of the black church in the UK, they have been responsible for reshaping things with particularly a the surgeons of language,. In many ways it is countercultural and there is probably a kickback on the informality that has crept into the church with and within a lack of honour.


My hopes are that we will be more effective serving one another

Relationship is the key and is not disposable item


To we have an equipped people

Are the next generation being raised up

Success is the mandate by which we recognise an apostle, clearly there needs to be something of a miracle influence but measuring success is difficult stop

Apostles never get satisfied they are always setting their sights on another target

Success is simple

Am I a good husband and father ground that estimate

Is everything that I set in place being worked out in the local church? Are our communities being reached? Indisputably have responsibility for the churches being planted and healthy and growing?

Our new leaders been raised up

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Interview with Steve Thomas, Leader of Salt & Light International

16th November 2011


An apostle is the father of other church leaders, provoking a greater sense of mission.

They also need to have a supernatural impact. Biblically the supernatural slide to it is to bring people and and raised them up in faith. The apostolic ministry is one of breakthrough, stirring up the presence of how God.

I don't know whether the personality of the apostle changes the role, rather personality types exist within each apostle. They are always developing.

We would have a high value on fatherhood, helping people to step into the destiny and wanting to go further, healthy things grow.

We would have a high value on training and teens

The apostle gets teams working together

pastors can lead to a measure but they need to understand who they are and what they're not, they need to understand their needs and others so self-awareness and team is vital.

Does every church need to relate to an apostle, yes if it wants to get built up properly. Apostles are builders

Apostles should not be spoken about in terms of the title.

In summary they should be missional, pioneering, break-through


Got into the Bishop ping mould where the church was about government and oversight.

Perhaps we need to measure what we are actually doing, to sharpen up our act

through the lens of the last 5 to 6 yearsfoundation Laneextending my mission and breakthroughleadership training and appointing leadersproblem-solvingimparting the supernaturalpromoting unity

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Salt & light is a family of families. Each of the international team is an apostle, most are apostolic on the team and some of our prophetic


My authority flows out the word of God so an apostle should have the life flow of the teacher.

Fatherhood is about caring for people that is reliable and dependable. Being there. Fathers need to be dependable. If we make suggestions some should listen. We offer a family model.

When authority is handled in a relational sense there is very seldom conflict. However leadership is about confrontation and so things are confronted


Authority only operates where it is received and recognised and should be opened honest debate and questioning.

Most of the leaders would be honest and honouring.

If we saw something going wrong in a church we would knock on the door, tall to a leader and asked them if they were going in the right direction.

A lot depends upon how they are and their attitude.

Bryn Jones held the view that the churches belong to the apostles, which is open to abuse we would hold of you that the churches are removing the governance of the elders


Fathers are about the ongoing relational link that existing churches where care, encouragement, development with others are valued.

Encouraging others to receive Ephesians 4 ministries so the gaps can be attended to.

Barney laid strong relational foundation, so salt and light are an instinctive relational context.

Barney was a very strong on good behaviors and values, but very flexible. One value has been diversity so there are many different church models

in OCC there is one congregation but different styles e.g. G 12, Saddleback, there is not one model of church and we tried just on one another.

ST role is to challenge thinking not undermine their vision they need to have the site that is what they are called to.

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We have many people with a mixed set of theological ideas stop

So what is it that holds us together? We have a values set which embraces diversity. We are often asked what you actually believe how?

Barney built a family and resisted the constitution. He was antigen on relational of the understand we need to have clear values

Our core commitments are our believes bracket Evangelical Alliance), and values how we want to live together.

Is the family unit the key?

There is a difference between pioneering fathers and sons who become fathers

Barney did have a more patriarchal view being a father, she knows that he was more authoritative but you made the transition.

He compared salt and light with Terry Virgo, and concluded that if it isn't a family it won't hold together

Salt and light is a family on a mission we need structures and strategies, we team and an organisation to affect mission.


The strengths of the new Church movement were great prophetic teacherspioneered that made mistakes which we learned fromthere was an inevitability about making mistakeswe need pioneering apostles and then building apostlesGerald built relationally but had no core values that help the family togetherpioneering leaders need to make themselves indispensable they need transition their familyhow much is eschatology important? Restoration of the church to take the good news






In the post-modern world everyone questions everything.

Leadership is more complicated now than it ever was

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Emergent questions are being asked

Style and how to use authority and how should one expect on?

There is a lot of respect by the young

A disappointment about restoration, in that it never produced and it didn't happen

A huge sets of questioning about initial impact

There is no point in fighting a stylistic view of existing culture

The role of the apostle is to expect something different

The lack of missional imperative poses the biggest threat


The evidence of mission

What is needed here in the UK is different what is needed in Zimbabwe, so things are done differently in the UK

Context defines the parameters


It is difficult to assess success in the UK as growth and our impact on society are harder to measure.

In other nations it is easier to get a better idea often of how successful we are.

From a personal measure, I believe growth is vital (the Kingdom idea), strong healthy churches being mission all, training and leaders, and the creation of more fusions for ministry teams have

Interview with Mark Mumford, UK Leader of Salt & Light

8th November 2011


Pioneering. Paul represents the most developed idea, it is about going, being sent, expansion, development. I react to the bishop sort of model associated with apostle.

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There is also a fathering idea, but this is very patriarchal in S&L

Colleagues would see the big A apostle mandate from God, there is a mandate, but I am more interested in the idea of the work of the apostle, apostoling, getting on with it rather than the title. I see big A as being more about hierarchy. Often the guys who operate with this big A are gifted and capable, strong and able.

Just a thought since our conversations. I realised afterwards that you had asked me what was the key attribute of the apostle........and I said ‘pioneering’ [I think I meant extension of the kingdom] . I guess that on reflection I would still agree with that, but I should have also said something about an apostle being a ‘builder’. Whilst it is clear that Jesus fundamentally builds His church, Paul describes himself as a master builder [ 1 Cor 3]. I think I do believe in the role of an apostle having a significant ‘building’ element!


Our line is traditionally the big A sort of apostle. We wee it as a pastor of pastors, super pastor who has a strategic element, who carry spiritual impact.

The apostle is about doctrine, foundation laying, troubleshooting, objective, auditing - but I think this model fails.

There is the godfather type model, the mafia idea that if you cross a never actually stated line you are rebuked! Confrontation is the criteria for apostles


Paul’s authority was out of relationship and anointing. If you carry and anointed gift that gift will be received.

This is not about institutional authority, if you make the ministry gift positional you make it an ‘office’ and it becomes a bishop.

Authority is relational. There is confusion with ministry and government.

In S&L the apostle is a consultant with limited governmental authority, but lots of institutional respect. The highest leadership in our churches is the elder.

An over-emphasis in government always produces top down hierarchy. The apostle is a more objective and wider authority which can be good to submit to.


The apostle probably has more influence in the young church, when it needs more direct leadership. But there are no absolutes in spiritual authority.

Maturity teaches us to see authority as a conversation between the leaders and apostles, it is nod direction but wise advice in relationship.

eg young child and adult son requires different measures of authority!

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Appeal not direct

Authority is always listening

release


There is a strong sense of the patriarch in the movement, fathering is seen as ‘do it my way’ rather than a conversation.

A spiritual father has to accept that when it is handed over to a son they may do it in a way that I may not be happy with.

In a recent conversation with Paul Reid’s successor from Belfast he said ‘my vision is to fulfill his dream’ that is more the spirit of sonship.

Raising up leaders. Pioneering or patriarchal leaders tend to want to hand over to similar characters but I’m not sure that is a good idea. They may talk team but in reality be strong leaders. Isn’t what we need level 5 leaders (from Good to Great) rather than level 4?

‘fatherhood’. It’s OK......but it does feel very ‘male’ [i.e. no scope for Jackie Pullinger, Heidi Baker or the like!!??!!], so I would veer towards ‘pioneering’ and ‘building’.


Networks have private doubts about the leadership of the founder leaders.

We should honour the faith and pioneering of the patriarchal leaders, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Isaac was obedient to Abraham, but the nation came from wiley Jacob!

Jacob broke the mould. I see my self as a bridge to the past.

One of the strengths of the new church movement is the fathering, creating identity. But also breadth, wisdom and oversights. Big picture (Abraham’s dream), local churches getting some trusted objective input.

Weaknesses is that the apostolic can be confused with the governmental office and position, there was a loss of the pioneering thrust, and an overbearing or over-emphasis of the authority of the apostle.

Networks are good because when in trouble you have somewhere to go!


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The demise of Bryn Jones, it felt that the hierarchical approach went disastrously wrong.

Emerging church have an effect on the rethinking of the apostolic. Emergents don't talk about apostles very much.

Apostles are modernist, old top down leadership. I don't think they are being rebellious but rather just don’t see the need.

The CEO Visionary leader is another influence, apostolic could be seen as growing a large church!

We really mean builder, to build a big church. Once we have something big we have credibility, so have something to talk about. We prove we are an Apostle by what we have done!!


The whole model has to change. We have to release more, I'm more bothered about apostoling rather than who is an apostle.

Apostolic is carrying the great commission, every church needs to be a missionary church, needs an apostolic mission. The HS came for mission, when the spirit gets divorced from mission we have a problem. The apostolic gift is to help churches step into their apostolic mandate which is missional.

Interview with Terry Virgo

Date - 19th July 2012


Biblical perspective, not 12 but ongoing ministry, eph 4 he ascended on high and gave apostles so not need a resurrection appearance.

called and commissioned to lay foundations and church planting, 1 cor 2

wise master builder, doctrine, foundations for church

We can build on Paula’s model

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Eph 4 model like Barnabas

doctrines hidden and now revealed, modern day apostle takes guide from biblical apostles did

We often don’t get to grips with Christ’s death and what that means to be in christ...

foundation laying teaching to get who they are in christ

apostle & apostolic - blur the edges by using the word apostolic


Don't think we have backed off, but tried to get clearer and dig into scripture

not say that perfectly have got it

grace founded, worked hard to understand grace, worked hard to get apostolic teaching

in handing on recognised some were apostle and some were not as far on

used an example of an african who is putting right teaching and doctrine


for NF its about doctrine not about being a super pastors

Autonomy of local church, not independence, it means that the elders are the authority for the local church.

BJ line was the church belong to us, we see the elders are responsible for the churchwe did for a while have regions, but it was unhelpful, so pulled back from it, as the regional leaders may not have been apostolic.

‘making things happen’ ... catching people up on a mission, be very mobile,


through invitation, may send for an apostle

Difference of theology or practice, drinking at different wells or teaching.

values system are well known, so people know what they are getting.

constant exposure to myself and team

Always had a prayer emphasis124


agree with that emphasis,

Barney has always that fathering emphasis, so its his style

We would include fathering but not insist, our style is more evangelistic or church planting

about exposure,

influenced by Kriengsak, thailand, was a very dynamic church planting apostle in thailand

he had a big impacting on us about church planting...


first heard of the term, house church guys, radical, willingness outside the box

to do things that are radical

huge contribution to be radical, go back to bible

sadly as time went by, it stopped being as biblical as it should have been

We are not religious, anti religious,

people said ‘that people didn't live with a big black book’ people can be trouble shooters but really it should be about biblical doctrine

tend to look for the team,






not been on the inside track

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don't think they have shifted the ground

not aware, vineyard had a huge influence and he never embraced apostles as an idea,


met a man called bob roberts, he has gathered, he uses apostle vaguely, he gathers network leaders internationally

Peter Wagner has seen truth and mixed with confusion, apostolic movements rising up all the time , social commentator

internationally new questions asked, new day dawning for the idea of

lets articulate


Foundations that are secure, longevity and health

catching people up on world mission

all families of earth be blessed

Interview with Roger Forster, Icthus

16th December 2011


The apostle is anointed to be a source of spiritual life and power through many congregations of a spiritual group of people.

The apostle is something spiritual.

The apostle is the founder of the flow, the originator of a movement stop

Plan called by God to be an apostle.

The apostolic streams intermix but each apostle should develop a new stream.

Privileged the basis for the apostolic is in Abraham and the patriarchs, all the families on a blessed because the father Abraham. We are blessed because of the flow that comes from

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Abraham. In a more humble and limited way God ordains apostle's as the fathers of a stream.

Things that happen out of envy and strife are not necessary as the building is the kingdom of God


The definition is more clear over the years have gone normal.

In the early days only one viewpoint was demanded, but you can get so much from the different streams. You can get so much from Wesley and Zinzendorf, these are well the need to be redug, we tend to detach ourselves from from our past.

As you read dig wells fresher flows come from them and apostles have regard particular wells

I deliberately stood outside the seven or 14 and have avoided any means of structural unity, I didn't want to be formalised but I felt it was a flow of the spirit.

I wouldn't necessarily claim to be an apostle although other people see Roger Forster as an apostle, I have an ability to gather and communicate.

We should recognise apostles in the church but not claim it ourselves.

Paul was fairly unique as an apostle there were 12 tribes of Israel plus Moses, and so he has a unique role in being the Guardian of apostolic letters but have a special place in the body of Christ.Authority : What is the nature of apostolic authority? How does it work in practice?

Lots of problems come from the exercise of authority in a fleshly way.

We should speak truth.

The apostles draw people together and point them in the same direction.

You could apply the term 'appestollo' to everybody in the church all things are relative.

There are different measures of apostolic authority, Roger Forster gives direction to large numbers of congregations with one vision.

The apostle is the visionary and this need to be communicated through theology.

The clan tribe leader is the best model for the apostolic


Apostles are not the same as bishops.

The apostle delegated authority to elders and communicates authority down the channel.

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The order reproduces itself.

The function is much more the point than the office.

Bishops and elders are seen as equivalent in Scripture.

The way in which authority is communicated is important, the apostle is the communicator of God's authority not the originator of it

We need each other.

There is also an authority that resides in the congregation and the elders


yes they are fathers that is a fair enough description.

Parenting is important that everyone can be a parent.

What we have tended to do in church history is elevate people.

Fathering is a spiritual invitation which is good, but don't designate what they have become stop

It is about functional flow throughout the body.

There are not any circumstances where an apostle could not be a spiritual father

New Church : Review the history of the new church moment. What are the strengths and weaknesses of apostles?

One of the greatest weakness of the new church movement was that we put our hands on it and then it ends up belonging to us rather than God. So control is one of the biggest problems, man always seems to get his hands on things

From a positive point of view the new church movement created a new sense of order into the church family, so apostles bring order and so need to be in order.






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Deconstructionism has opened the door which is very negative. It got in because of a reaction to control, people wanted a degree of freedom and to express themselves. Apostles tend to construct rather than deconstruct stop the problem with deconstructionism is that it is open to license rather than liberty. There is a sense in which the apostolic means some form of control

Future : Do you see any changes in the future of the apostolic?Amongst observers a number of people would have said that the future belongs to the new church stop we need to be humble, realise we have a great contribution to the whole, innate in the context of godly leadership we have brought a huge contribution


Success should not be measured by numbers of attendees at conventions.

Success is if an apostle produces a certain body of people got the most ungodly authority.

I don't think numbers are very helpful, it is more interesting to see what influence an apostle brings

Interview with Hugh Osgood

5th July 2012


Governance ministrytranslocal beyond one churchmeant to bring wisdom from experience

should be a sense of people come to understand the apostolic ministry and function in it so become it

Less inclined to tie churches to me personally


‘churches in communities’ CICalways hedged off the apostolic network, informal and relational historicallylots of the african church plants looked for cover and input, so felt that many would grow to stand on own feet. In 90’s kept it loose. Mid 90’s people got hit with accountability/accreditation so set up a structureAOG ended up put in rules and regs so had brandDon't really have a brandprepared to provide accreditation and accountability for ministries got some structure, don't tie the people into CIC

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looser network outside of CIC

Why did you not end up with one of the streams. Had lots of contacts with UCCF and EA so was able to sing from 2 song sheets. they saw HO as a link person.

Knew how to be an evangelical so a bit more deliberate in not being part of a network,

Going back to early 70’s was involved in George North network very narrow.


Sense in which if people not recognise it and try to impose it you get no where.Nature is you are recognised and so receivedHave to stress that its relational and personal Normally have lots of conversation with leaders before going to congregation


got free of local church, still senior leader but assistant handing on Cornerstone church, 1991 wanted to plant an apostolic resource centre, shifted in mid 90’s be more community aware,

Wanted to shift the church to someone else 5 years ago

Peter Wagner put stuff out about apostolic leaders as big church

250 peopleplanted people out 7 or 8CIC 120 churches and ministriesCIC world wide 4000

encourage a joint eldership with a lead elderobvious leader


true. Paula indicates fathering, father heart widely but if you tie everyone into a strong mentoring relationship.

patriarch model, potential control mechanism is fathering, covenant etc

CIC is mutual accountability

I would that they were all fathers, there are apostles that struggle relationally. Wish that everyone could be.

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I wouldn't have gone to the apostle Paul,


Tendency to define apostles too soon too stronglyWe needed a lot more maturitygrown into what we struggled with in beginningwhen movement began there were not many fathersat times too quick to end up with strands and streams with vertical allegiances and not collaborative

SOme of the relationships are tremendousapostolic tensions in scripture so have grown and understandingnew churches movement broken through barriersmore strengths than realised






in some parts of the world it is emphasised very stronglywe are dealing with emphasis on application of apostleswe have been at it longer

in Ku, our ability to keep looking in new things and so get absorbed in new ideas


excited if there is a continuance of apostolic understanding and present it in a clear

if we loose apostolic then we failed


Issues on rescuing situations under stressfirefighting that have to dohow successfully those situations rescuesrelational developments

has to be level of teaching that brings security

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how well you lay the foundationsstability, is the church stablenot just measure, depends on

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Appendix E - Westminster Declaration22nd June 2012, Westminster Chapel________________________________________________________________________

WE AFFIRM OUR LOVE FOR YOU FATHER AND WE AFFIRM OUR LOVE FOR YOUR CHURCH.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR FAITHFULNESS AND LOVE THROUGH OUT THE LAST 40 YEARS IN THIS NATION. THANK YOU FOR A NEW FLOW OF WORSHIP, MUSIC AND SONG WRITING THAT HAS BROUGHT LIFE TO THE CHURCH. THANK YOU FOR NEW CHURCHES PLANTED AND FRESH EXPRESSIONS OF KINGDOM EMERGING. WE PRAISE YOU FOR EVERY INITIATIVE WHICH HAS SOUGHT TO BLESS PEOPLE AND COMMUNITIES AND FOR MISSION MOVEMENTS THAT HAVE HONOURED CHRIST AND REACHED MANY PEOPLE.

WHERE THERE HAVE BEEN DIVISIONS AND BROKEN RELATIONSHIPS THROUGH THE YEARS WE PRAY YOUR FORGIVENESS AND CLEANSING.

NOW WE STAND TOGETHER FOR YOUR KINGDOM PURPOSES FROM DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS, DENOMINATIONS AND NETWORKS RECOGNISING BOTH OUR DUTY AND DELIGHT TO BE TOGETHER. WE COMMIT TO SPEAK WELL OF ONE ANOTHER, TO SUPPORT AND AFFIRM ONE ANOTHER AND TO SHARE THE GOOD NEWS MESSAGE IN WORD AND ACTION. REVIVE YOUR CHURCH. MAY WE SEE THE UK RE-EVANGELISED WITH MANY BROUGHT TO A LIVING FAITH AND MANY COMMUNITIES TRANSFORMED.

IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT

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