Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

WEDNESDAY, 15 NOVEMBER 1933

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Que8tions. [1.5 NovEMBER.] Goal P1·oduct1:on Regulation Bill. 1457

WEDNESDAY, 15 NOVEI'IIBER, 1933.

1Ir. ~?E.\KEid (lion. C. Pollock, &'reyory) rook ihe {'h .ir at 10.30 a.nl.

QLESTIO?\S.

~'.Co;.J:MOX\YE·\LTH Gu.\2\T !:ou H.ELIEF ot· \\'HE\T­cuowEns.

~Ir. DEACOX \C'unninyham) a.;;kcd thu St·crC'L. ry fo1· ),gricnlLui·e-

" \Yill lw lav ~n the table ail the C:Ol'l'(·' 'tJCtwccu the Federal and State rcLtting to the \Vhcat Relief Grant for the 1932·1933 ha nest?"

The• SECltETARY FOR AGRICUL'lTiRl£ )Ion. F. \\'. llnlco.ck, JJarcoo) replied-

" The cor re·· pomlencc can be perused by tho hon. ruewbcr jn rny oflice."

RAILWAY FREIGHTS o" GnE.ISY \Yoor..

:\[r. ED\L.\.RDS (Xawmgo) asked the ~lilli-:,lc r for rJ'l'<lllS}lOl't-

" \\'hat arc the ordinary fn :ghts, tlmt i;-;, thz~ freights on lines \Yhpro special r.atcs do not a.pp:y, on grPasy '''ool per

for of 100 miles, 200 miles, n1ilcs, and 500 n1iles

The .JliJ\~ISTER FOR THAXSPOHT (Hon. .-J. Dash, Jlunrlinulutrra) repli~_ 1-

.. lOO miles. 57s.; 200 mile'. 93s.; 300 miles, llb.; 400 mile·. 12J.s.; 500 miles, 13Gs.

CoxsTRT.TTio" Of BHIDGE AT KAxGAnoo Pm"T, BRISBAXE.

!Hr. }L\.X\YELL (Tool/"011(!) asked the Prcrnicr--

" I11 rof.crcncc to tho reported decision uf the Governtncnt to offer the position of de-)igujng ~_~nginet'r of tho l~angaroo l'oint bridge to Dr. J. J. C. Bradlield, and to make a start immediately with the preparation of vlau::;, ~pcciflcaiion8, and :·cL~::oa of the site, will he-(u) submit the wlwlt: BHttier for the con~idcration of the BrisLane City Council; (b) arr:tnge for a rcfc•rcudutn of tht' eL ctors of Bris­balJC bl•fore rn·oc'PdiJl!.-f further with thls

in view of the l1uge mJuual burden on ratcpa~ ('J'S of lh'i~bauc '!"

Th> l'RK~UER (Bon. \Y. Forgan Smith, .lirtrf.ey) replied-

" TlJi:) question i~ ba~ed on false pre­rni~es, a11d c·ou8ids of crude prorwganda, ob,'iOL~oily the product of an infantile ln1aginai.Jon.''

TE~\Di~Rs FOR LArXDRY 1L\CHIX£trr. RocKHAMPTOX l-IosriTAL.

1\lr. KEJ\'1'\Y (Cook), for :'\lr. D),?\IEL i.Ji. eppc l), a .ked the Treasurer-

" 1. In reference to the reply to a quPstion on 2nd iusta11t r~ latln_' to ten­ders foe lanndry n1achincry, llockharnp­ton Ho,pital, "·ill he state whether :\lr. J-I. Platt, consulting cnginPer, reported that tho Queensland iYiachinery Com. puny's tender complied "·ith the specifi. catlons r~nd conditions of te11rler, or, if not, "·ho did report to that effect?

"2. \Vill he lay on the table a copy of Me. Platt's report on the tenders for this job?"

The THK\SC'HER (lion. W. Forgan Smith, Jla.ckay) replied-

" I lay on tho table a copy of the report by Mr. II. Platt, "·hich contains the information desired by tho hon. mem. bor."

S t;SPE:\SIO:\' OF STAJ'\Dll\G cmmms. P.\SS.\GE OF BILL~ THHOUGll ~\LL STAGES 1.:\

Orm llAY.

The l'nEMfEH (flon. \Y. Forgan Smith, Jluckuy) [10.34 a.m.J: I mcne-

' That so 1nuch of the StJ .. uding Orders Le suspended 1You1d otherwise lH'CYCnt

the receiving He:--.olutions fron1 Conl-miHces of SL!pply and \Yays and ~fcans on the same Jay as tiLcy shall have passed in those Committees, and the pa'bing of Bills through all their stages in ono clay."

Question put and passed.

CCL\L PRODL'CTION REGULATIO~ 13ILL.

SEVl'\D Hr\JJJC>~G-·H~sc~IPTIOt>i OF lJEBATE.

Que.-;t ion .'·ia tcd-

" That tho Bill be now read a second ti1ne .. ,

Mr .. GLEDSO:\' (lpsiCith) [10.35 a. m.]: In 'peakmg to the second reading of this Bill I clc ·ire to approach tho subject hodl three stDnclpoints: The first, the nPceb'ity for the Bill; the second, the facilities offered by the Bill; and the thircl, the effect of the Bill on the coal industry. The rcn1arks of the Leader and other' rnen1 bers of tho Opposition ~urvrised 1ne. The Leader of the Opposition used tlw phrase, "lt i.3 a n1ost oxtraonlinary Bill, and altogether' Jte\v." \Ye knovv it ib lWW. ~IeinlJel'S of thP Oppo .ition know that one does not deal \Yith cancerous Jisea~es \Vith ;;;ooihing renle­dlc~. The nrc:-:;cnt conclltiOJl of the coal ~lldu~try neecfs .<::omcthing IllOl'C thau Bpoon­fub of f-Oothing syrtlp-to continue to uso the ::;auw Inctapf1or. Y·nlCn a doctor is called upon to rmllovc an appendix ho doo·:· not do it rncrcly by w.;ing a pi(_•cc of ~ticking­plaster or a bit of eont paste. So, in d0al­_ ith industrial ills an appropriate

muot be applied. I haYe earcfullv road speeches dPiiYcrcd on this Bill bv hon. n1crnber ., opposite. During his speech on the initi:Hor:v stRgc~ the Leader of the Oppo:-;itlon did not kno\Y whether he \Vould be able to 'npport the 13il! or uot, but the

1nomhor for l\Iuri\la 1-ras definite and that he "·as opposl'd to tlw Bill. '1'he Inotnbcr for Oxlcy n1aclo 1na11Y \Yild

st.at.PrHcnts abont rnlning a.nd other matters and gaYc the i1npression that he kncvv sonic­thing about mining. He said that he had worker! in a mine, but I know that he has had Yory little experience of the actual work in a mine. Hr!· used to carrv the " billv" for his fat her, who wa:- an cl1gjne-Jriver~ at a rni ne, and wlJCn he vvas quite a young ]ad he was en1ployed pushing rags over a coLmter. \Vhen an hon. member gives the rmprc·,sion that he !Jas a knowledge of a subject under discussion it is necessary that we should ascertain the true extent of his knowledge. The experience of the hon. member in mining amounted to the pushing about of a few skips, and he left it at a very early age; but I would remind the hon.

Mr. Gledson.]

1458 Goal Production [ASSEMBLY.] Regulation Bill.

member that he stated that a man engaged i!t rnining did r;ot leave it to take up ar;othor job. I cannot understand how the hon. member for Oxlev can claim to have a kuowlodge of the ~ining industry. fie made a number of wild statements-! fcol pretty strongly about them-about the collierv proprietors and tho miners. He stated that statistics di,,closod that the num­ber of death~ in the rnining industry was les,s in propmtion t,o the number of men employed than in other industries, but I want to give that staterncnt an en1phatic denial. The hon. member for Oxlev should kno,v, fron1 his own personal eX'periencc and fronr the c·xpcri~·nC'o of his own relatives. that his statement is 11ot true. Ho should be prepared to ;,tate the facts frrirly and frankly. instead of cudcayourlng to glos"' thorn o\·or. Do hon. rnomDer~. 11ot recall that prac,tically th" >'hole of tlw ;\Iount lVI ulligau township, a 111ining area, wa.~ \vipcd out in one accident·~ I cou]cl n_,fer to Rcci­df!uts thnt ha,·o taken place; in wuthcrn QncPl1:-3land cli<;;trict.s and in other parts of the world to sub.,tantiate mv CO!JIPution that prior to the ut1li:.::at;on of rnodern ~afct:v appliaucPs j11 mine.-.; quite a large nurnbpr of accident.:~ occurred in the n1ining indus­try,

The lion. rnc•n1bcr for Oxlcy al,o 8XjJrc;;;:.:;cc1 the fpnr that if the Bill were passed the colliery proprietors and the miners would collabor._,_tc \vith a yjc\,\' io incrca.:;;ing the price of co:>l so ns to divide the spoils arnong.--.;t the1nselYc~. Such a statcnwnt is all

absolute fabrication, and the hon. member kncrws that nothing of the sort \Vas ever done, IIe refened to the action of the ex-Prime 1\Iinistcr, the Ftight Hon. W. :VL Hughes, Ho contendecl ihat Hughcs hacl handed out an additional per ton and had 2aid to the proprietors and n1iucrs, d Split it Ul) bebYc~cn \OU." ThB hon. rnen1-bor knmn that that 'is not correct,

:VIr, Xnnro: It is conect,

::Ylr, GLEJJSO:\': I!c rcituro.tes his 'i"le­rncnt, He knows that it is ab,,olutelv false. and that nothing of the sort wa, clone, I '\Ya~ a. rncrnbcr of th•c deputation that waited upon the Hig-ht Hon. \V. l\1. Hughcs in IVIelbonrne in COlJnecticm ·-·ith ihP rnaftcr. 'The colliery prorrictors in QuPcnsland 1,-n:rc prcp<trcd to meet their men, hut the cliffi­cn1tv IYas causPd bv tl1c act ion of crrtain hip:· }HOpriPtnrs in 'the South. Tbt> Itip:ht. Hon. \V, l\'L IIngho-,, who W:lR then the PrimP l\Iini.-;tC'l' of A uotralia. did not grant a 11 increase in the n1·icc of coal. but he appointed a tribunal J;l'o;-:;icled oyer by Judge' Edrnunds, \Yhc'Dl he crnpowcrcd to c1ccitlo the rigl1ts and \rtongs of the lndu~try. .An j11croasc '\V~ts given in tlH~ ton11agc 'rate for hewing rnul, and in the shift ratr--; and dav vvork rntes for 1ne11 crnplo.vPd about collieries, Afterwards, the colliery pro­pnctor~ were allowed to charge an ]ncrPa~c up to 3,;, per ton of coaL That i,, ho\Y that jnr'rl'a:o;.c can1e about. Tile Prirnc ~Tlnister did not ronrede the lncrca~c of 3::;.. per ton at all; it 1va L1mw by a judge nr<''' id inK or er a i ribunal. wl1o 1vent into the vvho1e qncstion i1nd dealt in dctoil "·ith all tho rnnHers \' bid1 ca:me under hi'; purYiew.

Mr. Nnmo: You know that >vas a sp~cially selected trilmnaL

:\'(c. GLEDSON: The hon, member for Oxley is attempting to g<'t round his difli­rultv, He maclo the definite statement that the 'Prime ::\Iinist0r allowed the colliery pro-

fJfr. Gledson.

prietors to increase the price Jf coal by 3s. per ton conditionally on tirat increase being split up equally between the colliery proprietors and the minors, .wd that con­sequently a fe\Y col:iery proprietors got far n1orB than the 1niners. rrhat IVUS a very foolish statement, and the hon, member should know b<'tter than to attempt to mis­lead this House and the poop! e of Queeus­land,

This Bill does not provide for the fixation of the price of coal, or the ladling out of sen1c concession to the colliery proprietors and miners, It provides for the organisa­ticn of the coalmining industry on a basis "hich will enable the industry to 1\ ork out its own destinv. That is all this Bill does. If it ]JrOYiderl for anything additional, it \YoLdd appear in the Bill in black and white, The rrwmbcrs of the Opposition when deal­ing with the Ihll read sornethlng int.o it wliieh is not there at alL They end"ayoured in poiut cut that its purpo2lo \vas to increase tile priee of coal.. and force consu1ners to ray that increased price, They quott•d two dasscs of large consurners \Vho they said \\Ould he clr>trimcntally affected, the gas companies am! the electric light companies. I intend to deal with that aspect of the matter if I have time.

I now desire to advance sorne rca"ons which made this Bill necessary, Instead of coal production incn a sing i;t Queensland during the past few years it has been decreas­ing. The output fro1n the 'Yest ~Iorcton dist;,ict, ;yfrich embraces the Ipswich and Hundarnba collieries, \Yas 2-_g follows:-

1920 1928 1928 1930 1931 1932

Tons. 763.590 583,990 667,640 566,391 438,961 436,684

It will be noticed that the greatest decline \Yas during the three ycar:5' rcgirno of the 1\ioorc GoYernn1ent.

The output in the Darling Do n1s di.,trict is "f1 en at a glance fron1 the following table:-

1927 1928 1929 1930 1931 1932

Tons, 105,789

93,024 97,619 85,912 75,366 71,801

lion, members will see how the productioP 111 other coal-producjng c1i~tric·ts has d('(:1incdJ by tt study of the follo1ving figures:-

:'\IARYBOROcGH DISTRICT,

1923 1929 1930 1931 1932

To rH.

94,031 146,247 106.52!1

64,379 64,765

TIOCKHAi\JPTON DISTRICT,

Tons. 1823 1929 1930 1931 1932

51,113 60,910 51,108 51,255 45,754

Goal Production [15 NoVE:i\IBER.] Regulation Bill. 1459

The oLlt]JUt for ~Iount ~lorg-an 1va::; as followo: --

192~ 1928 1929 31

Touf.;. 87,963

9.088 r\il

To·,yardo tl"' httcr part of 1932 there ···as a small prodnction of 2,201 tons 1vith the re­

{.Qnuncncernc•nt of n1ining operations at l\lount }.~.org;an; and this year the productiou will ·orobably be n1ore than that. Collllng 110'.1;

to the Clennont di:-trict, \Ye flud tile co.:d output i r:~ follo-w~ for thP year;) sho'n~-

1920 1928 1929 1930 1931 1932

Tom. 145,0()1

54.847 110.531 49:712 35,85~ 48,929

'i'hC' figures follow:-

for the Bo;Yen district are as

1928 1929 193C; 1931 1932

Tons. 161,813 263,660 223,032 159,445 152,786

For the }lount :Ylulligan district the !igure-.; of coal production arc a:; undt>r-

1924 1928 1929 1930

Mr. KEXXY: \Yhy W<tS that?

Tou:-'i, 44.397 23,220 22.138 11.965

:\lr. G LEDSOc-; : The hon. member ougln to know.

:\lr. KEXXY: I'll tell ym.L

:\lr. SPEAKEll: Order:

Thh. GLEDSOX: The boll. member for Cook was a rnmnbC'r of the .I\Ioorp Goyern­IlH"llt at tJwJ tixne.

:\lr. I{EXXY: Wh:· did it dl'Op?

:'dr. SPEAKER: Order! I hope the hon. TllPnthcr for Cook \vi1l ohl'Y IrlY call to orcler.

'.!r. KFXX¥: I ~lid. c •

M1·. SPEAKER: The h<lil. 1w mber did not.

:\Jr. GLEDSOK: LPt n1e continnf' ,vith the of coal prod Het ion 1n 1 }~c ~.Jaunt

dictrici-

1931 1932

Tons. 16,052 18,640

The iigurcs \d1ich I hnYt; givPn ~ho\v ho1v J hi·:, industry ha~ Lcen gradl.utlly declining. Hm1. rnemlH'rs will appreciate the extent of 1!J,, clediw• wlicn I put it in another v. "Y· aiHi tdl tLun that iYhneas in 1920 the total uutpnt for the Sb:ttc Wits 1,618.182 tons, it had declined to 841,711 tons ill 1932-a re­tinction of practic~lly 50 per cent.

\Yhat concel'ns rnc man~ than the actual drop in tonnage i' the decreased number of men employed on full iYages. The followillg i!gut'CM ~how the nu1nbPr of n1cn crnplo:,-cd i1l the coalrnir~ing industry in Qucc>nsland !ll the years gn'cn.

1926 1928 1929 1930 1931 1932

Ernployces. 3.020 2.676 2,768 2.768 2,260 2,199

The House will ,cc that although the output of coal has declined by practically 50 per cent., nearly a,~ rnan~~ rnL~tl are dependent npon the conlrnining indu:-:;try to-Jay as vdwn a rccorcl output was obtained. Output is ono thing-; the Yaluu of the coal is another. Not only has the output dropped considerably, but there has aloo been a decline in the Yalue of coul bccacisc of the direct action of the :Yioore Government.

:Y[r. Xooro: You woulcl say anything.

Mr. GLEDSOX: I say that deliberately, bccau:-:;e I ain stating what I knO\Y to bo aclnal facto, of which l will bring proofs. In 1929. when tbc :\1oorc (joyernrnont took office, the hon. 1ncrnbcr for 1Y1urilla \vas appointed Secretary for Hailways. Ho then got to work, and 1 suppose he had the car of a man like the hem. member for Car­narvon, -who could not go down a coalm1ne if he tried.

Mr. COSTELLO interjected.

:\1r. Sl'EAKEll : Order ! I hope tbe hon. ll1C'lllbcr for CcuJHU'YOll vvill cease intcr­l·upting.

:\1r. GLEDSO]';': The value of coal dropped practically more than the output of coaL The Thfoore Government decided for some reason or other that thoy would reduce costs. They said : " The eo . .;! indus­try is in " parlous position, these people nre down and out, and now is the tirnc to put the boot into them, to kick them." That is whrtt they sot out to do. 1'lwy got together and said: "Unless you cut clown the miners' wages and reduce the price of coal, we will take stops to see that it is done." Those arc the statements that wen• made. The result, of course, 1vas that the ex-::'v1inistr>r for 1'ransport, and the ex­Premier, now tho Leader of the Opposition, got their way, and had the price of coal and the millers' wages cut down. But what have thcv reallv done? The result of their action h~s bcc;1 to throw many men 1d10 were Plnploy(~d in collieries out on the ~crap­heap without any work to do. It has also p·ractically placed the owners who were working the collieries in such n ~tatc that they ha vo no money for development ork, and have had to get coal where they could get it most easily and cheaply, with the result that their coal values arc depleted. Even then they get practic,ully nothing out of it.

::Vlr. XDI110: Reducing the price of coal did that?

Mr. GLEDSO='i: Reducing the price of coal belo-,y the economic value and reducing

wages do that. An:,Tone ·who economic~ c ln find out hovv t1Htt

n- eur~. Thi~ Uovr'nH11Pllt do !lot do that sort of thing. \Vc, as a Government, left the matter to the Industrial Court and the persons "\rho wore conccrncd-tho consl1mers -but the Moore Government took direct action. I am making this statement in all seriousne5''3. The review I have made gives us a truo idea of the state into which the industry has got at the present time. This Bill does not propose to increase the price of coal at all, except that it gives the pro­prietors the po\ver to organise in a proper wav and work out their own s.alvation. I wa;1t to point out some of the ways in which the salvation of the industry may be worked out in Queensland. We have here a Bill which provides for a central board. 'l'hen

Mr. Gledson.]

1460 Goal Production [ASSEl\iBL Y.] Regulation Bi!l.

we have district boards. At the back of the Bill will be found maps setting out the dis­tricts. The fi:rst district is the one north of St. Lawrence, taking in the Bowen and Mount Mulligan mines. No. 2 district takes m the Nmth-Central district, from St. Lawrence to Bundaberg. That includes the Styx mine, the Bluff collieries, and three or four collieries working at the Bluff; it also takes in the Mount Morgan colliery. Blair Athol is also included in No. 2 district. Then we come to No. 3 district, which takes iu the 1\Jaryborough rnincs a11d Torbanlca. That district comes down below Gympie, and will include any mines that may be opened up there. No. 4 district takes in Tannymorel and the Darling Downs-the mines on the Oakcy-Cooyar line and those out from Roma. A mine is producing coal at Injune Creek. No. 5 district will con­tain all the mines in the Bundamba, Tivoli, Walloon, Rosewood, and Beaudesert dis­tricts. Not much is going on at the latter place, but there is a small mine producing coal. Each of these districts will have the right to appoint its own board, which will go into all matters appertaining to the conduct of the business, fixing the produc­tion of the mines. arranging prices, and generally looking after the welfare of the coal industry in the district.

It is from the general prm·ision proYiding for the r•stablishmcnt of a central board that we think something useful will eventuate. This board will haYe the power to fix Jeyios and the power to organise the indus­try on a basis that will help m·cry district and the industry gunerally. At the present tune a delegatiOn has boon appointed which will proceed to the East for the purposes of Clidc.a,~ouring to fo.-.ter an increase in the export coal trade of Qnecneland. "Whether the results will be effectiYc I do not know. It is m,'- opinion that it will be difficult to increase our export coal trade in any \1 ay. However. the effort is boin~ made for which I thank the GoYcrnmont. '

Thanks arc aho due to the Premier and the Government for their efforts to keep in close touch with the de\·elopmcnt of the by-product< of coal, particularly oil. The Pre1nic'r .bas instructed the Acting .. Agent­General m London to keep in clo,;o touch wnh tbe latest cleyclopmonts in Britain and Continental countrios for the purpose of supplying the UoYCrtlllH'llt vvith inform at ion as to the dcvclopnwnb in regard to the extraetion of oil froru coal h> hydl'ogcnation and other methods. A number of artides have alrcad v been read to l10n. mombcro on this questio.n, but for their be ncfit I shall read anoth~r dealing with the hydrogenation of cod which has not yet been submitted to tlw>Jl. It is taken from the '·Queensland 'fimco" of the 9th instant. It is the most intr>rcsting article I l1ave yet read on this snhject-

"COAL HYDROGEl>ATIOX.

"FOr~DER TR.\.CES DE"~n<~LOP:i\IE~T.

"The discwosion on hydrogenation at the \Vorld Petroleum Congress was expected 111 the circur:nstancu:s lo be jntercsting, but. in fart. it exceeded expectation. The presence of the famous founder of the process, Dr. Bcrgins, of Dr. Pier, the representative of the Ger­man Dye Trust, which first developed the process on a big ocale, of l\1r. K. Gordon,

[Mr. Gleclson.

the represcntatiYe of the Imperial Chemi­cal Industries, which is to build the first big British plant at Billingham, and other eminent workers in the field of hydrogenation. rnade the occasion dra­matic (says tlw '.:Vlanclwster Guardian').

" Dr. Bcrgins opened the discussion before a packed and distinguished audience. He described l10w the present results ha,-e been r<achcd by a gradual advance from an abstract research started: in 1909. At that time he \Yas interested in the pure scientific problem of the fonna6on of coal deposits in certain geo­logical periods. His attention wac, directed to a question of chemical g-eo­logy. Contemporary opinion hold that coal was only a sort of dirty carbon. The idea that it is more of a compound of a special nut.urc had little support.

"Ho and his colleagues set out !o pro­duce an artificial coal by chPmical pro­cesses that might resemble those occurring in the natural production of coal. They produced a material from cellulose, the stilt part of woody fibres, which seemed to them to be a sort of artificial coal. The composition of this artificial coal \vas, of course, known bet­ter than that of natural coal. 'l'his knowledge suggested to them the possi­bility that the artificial coal ought to react with hydrogen.

" Thev tried and found it would react .. and it 'gave a product 70 per cent. of which was soluble in benzine. The attempt to obtain similar results with natural coal was ob,·iously suggested by this success, but was still a long way from achieYcment. The interesting feature of this history is that practical processe<'~. no1v of vast importance, grew out of a pure research into the constitution ancl origin of coal.

" Capturing Gases. " The next irnportant advance came in

1913, \Vhcn LanJ.~b(•rg asked Rergins to nndcrtake research into the CTacking­that is. the dccowposition bv distilla­tion of petroleum. Ia !l'll'ticcdar he attcmpLd to catch the g"asc•s ]o,t in thee flues in the cracking process. He attempted to condense theee gn"'S by n1aking then1 co1nhine vvith h~vdrogcn under high prrssure. It "·as ncrcs:-:,ary to arrm1gc that the oil wa1 cracking sufi-i­cicntly slowly, and the gase.'l W(~rc being~ hydrogenated wfficicntly quickly :or the proce<s to \\·ork continuously.

"Success in the hydrogenation applied to oil-cracking came in 1913, and gave the data for the historic patents which are the foundation of all later develop­ments. Bergins worked at first with cata:ysts. The engineering cliflicu!tics tc· be overcome before the proccs, could be worked on a large scale \verc i1nmense. In their early exp<eriment with 2 lb. of coal thev found it was not turned into oil, but ·into coke, because of tho great heat emitted during the reaction \Yith hydrogen. To ayoicl this the coal was mixed with oil. Thev discovered that not eyr;ry sort of coal could be hydro­genated-not anthracite, but br0\\'11 and bitun1inous coals."

PracticaJlv the whole of the coal in Qcwcns­land is biturninous coal. \\'c have ~etni­anthracite. but no, anth"acite in Queensland.

Coal Pmduction [15 NovEMBEIL] Regulation Bill. 1461

According to the report by these eminent scientists Queensland coal would be suitable foe the cracking process and foe hydro­genatiOn. The report continues-

" During this stage of the researches the war began and the necessities of Germany made the large use of the process of great importance. In 1916 they succeeded in meeting a plant with reaction Yessels of 100 cubic feN capacity. They found it difficult to discover how the solid substances, such as iron oxide, used as catalysts, could be introduced into the reaction vc"sels when they were working continuously at 5,000 lb. per square mch pressure. In 1920 they solved tlus by pumping it in as a paste. Thi:3 was aho found to be the best method of introducing lhe coal-to make it into a paste with oil whieh could then be pumped into the chambee. Bv 1926 the rcsear:ch was completed, and· the toch­nologrcal problem of producing oil from coal was sohcd.

" In his spoken address, .Mr. Gm·don confined himself to the general aspects of the present dm-clopmcnts. He remarked that all the companies con­ducting research into hydrogenation had agreed to pool their rf!sults. In this thev were not m· en friendly ri ,-als, but coi­leagucs. The researches with which he had been associated had been of great irnr1ortnncc in connection ·with the improYcments of the peactical hvdro,ena-tion of bituminous coal. ' "

'.' He was not preparecl to offer any op1n1on on the econornic nationa1istic aspects of the new British projects. He was more interested in the world fuel position. On the most generous esti­mate it was difficult to believe that there WOLtld not be a serious shortage of pelro­lcurn. in twenty :p~ars. The production of or! from coal meant that humanity could depend on the existence of air oil fuel not for huudreds but for thousands of vears, as the wmld coal deposit. arc so Yast. Ho expected that further research would enable the cost of producing oil from coal to be reduced and also the price of natural oil would incrra~c as 1t bccaltlc scarce. T1Icrc was _an excellent prostwd t.hat the pro­ductwn of ml from coal wrll soon cease to be a burden to the State."

That report, to some extent. hears out the cabled reports to the effect· that these big compan1es are establishino· cxtensiYc work:=; in England, nnd one of O')thcrn has practi­cally offered to establish works in Au><tral'ia when the cro11onli'~ :-;ouuLlncss of the sdwrno has h1 en c!Plcnninccl. A que,tion rclatiYc to the matt.•r ''"a' addro• .. ·,cd to the Prime Minister in the House of HepresentatiYes a day or so ago, and tl1c Prime Minister in reply stated that the' company would like 80n1e guarantee before rlc,cicling to launrh out upon the establishment of works in other parts of the world than Britain. I think we ce.n be satisfied that the company is pn•pared to cstablrsh >Yorks in Australia ~o ~oon ns the cconornic possibilities of the mdustry ha\'O been determined. It is hiuhlv pro!nblc that its nrst wm·ks "·ill be e~ta.b­lished on the big coalfields in ~cw South \\Tales, but I think can expect suhsidiarv works to be c.stablishcd subsequeullv i;1 Queensland. ··

Tl,,ro are many matters with which I should have liked to deal, but time does not permit. I do intend, however, to deal with the statement that an increase in the price of coal necessarily means a heavy increase in the price of gas and electricity. Perhaps some hon. members would be sur­prised to know that from a ton of coal there can be produced from 12,000 to 14,000 cubic feet of gas. Let us assume that the produc­tion amounts to 12,000 cubic feet of gas,. and that the coal is purchased for 15s. per ton at the pith~ad, which is in excess of the prico that is being paid to-day. It means that gas is produeed at a cost for coal of ls. 3d. per 1,000 cubic feet, but gas is being sold in the city of Brisbane at an a Yerage price of Ss. per 1,000 cubic feet, How can we account for the difference? Coal is, of course, only ono itern in the cost of producing gas. Distribution is another, and hy far the most important item of ccst. \Ye must also remember that it is admitted that in Queensland coal is the driving force in the manufacture of the important motive po',;·cr of electricity. I want to find out what proportion its cost bears to the actual charge per unit of clec­tricitv to conslmH•rs. 1 have collected a quaniit:v of data frorn England on this matter, particulur!y in connection with cer­tain tests which ha vc been made there, but I prefer to take the ftguros relating to tests rnadc in Queensland. \Ve have t\VO compani<>s producing electrical energy in this 11art of Queensland. In ono case it is taking 2 lb. of coal to produce one tmit of clec­tricitv. and in lho other 192 lb. of coal to prochiee a unit of electricity. The cost of coal in those ca-<cs also is 15::::. per ton at the pithead. Therefore, the coal costs in the production of a nnit of electricity in Brisbane is .16d. Electricity is being sold in Brisbane at 6d. per unit, and in Ipswich 'lt Sd. per unit, lc·-;s 10 per cent. discount. Ji:yen if coal were i11Creascd 1s. per ton, it \Yould mean an increase of only le!. per-1,000 cubic feet of gas, and an infinitesimal fractional increase in the cost of e!edricity. Those facts explode the argument that this Bill will result in increased charges for gas and electricity.

J\1!'. RnssELL: Your GoYornrrtcnt are going to rPdnro thos0 f'harges.

}fr. GLEDSON: They ought to b£> reduced considerably. Consumers are paying Ss. per 1,000 cubic feet Df gas in the Bris­bane area, while the cost in Britain of pro­ducing gas under sin1ilar conditions is 2:-3-3d. per 1,000 cubic feet.

Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. mem­ber has oxhaustNl the time allowed him under the Standing Orders.

Mr. GODFREY MORGAN (J1uril!rl) [11.13 a.m.]: The hon. member who has just recumed his scat made one of his customary wilcl, erratic speeches, of which 110 ono takes much notice. First of all, he admitted that the Bill is a desperate ono, because the position of the coal industry required des­perate remedies. That is a great admission to come from the hon. member ! He com­plained about the statement made by the Leader of the Opposition that this was an extraordinary Bill, yet he himself describes it as a desperate Bill. In justification of his statement that the condition of the coal industry required desperate remedies, he

JJir. lVlorgan.]

1462 Goal Production [ASSE:VlBLY.] Regulation Bill.

drew an analoo-y with a case of cancer, add­ing that such J: disc a se ,rcq uircd severe trcu t­ment. Ue also complained that hon. mem­bers on this side of the Chamber declared that the Bill would onublo the coalowners and miners to increase the price of coal. That is the intention of the Bill. The Bill is framed purely m'd simply with a view to inerea:sing the price of coal to the consu1ners in this State.

The S£CHEIARY FOR MINES : Thiit is not right.

Mr. GODFREY MORGAN: It is right, and it has been introduced for no other l'CasOll. 1rhc hon. gentleman throughout his speech said that oven if the price of coal was increased by ls. or 2s. per ton it would ha vo little effect on the price of gus or elcc­tricits, but he carefully omitted to state "·hat cficdo it \\ould hav-e on the Raih\ ay Depart11w11t. The hou. rnc1nbcr for Ips'.~·ich repr( ~('nt;;; ~ great li.Ulnbor of railwayrnen. Ile ev-idently is prepared to let the railway­nil~ll do\' n i1\ ordcn· tu help the coalmincrs in his d<>ctorate. He flnds himsol£ between the dev-il owl the Jeep blue 8ea. He has two classes uf coustituents, but he evidently i::; wil1ing to sacrif-ice the 1·ailw.ay crnployecs in ordc!' t.o SPCLJTP additional wages for the coahnincrs.

l\Ir. ::VlOOl!E: He is sacrificing the people who muot use the railways.

Mr. GODFHEY MORGAN: Exactly. The hem. n1c1nbPr gaYe u::; figures rcgrrrding the n'duru1 output of coal. Cnfortuuatc]y. there has been a big reduction in the quan­tity of coal used by consumers in Qtrcons­lar!J, Yv-ith the exception of the Railway Department. That is due to the facl-and the hon. member for Ipswich would not face the situation and tell the truth-that coal is dcarer than oil fuel. Tha.t is the difficulty of the coal trade. TlH' cost of coal i::: so gr~:>-at that even 111ining companir's haYc i11.;tallc'cl internal cornbustion cnginf~s, using oil fuel or suction gas pJants. At one tin1e butter factories used an enormous arnonnt. of coa-l to drive th,•ir machinery, but the co't of coal became prohibitive, and they \\·c·rc cmnpclled to i11stall su-ction g.a.s plants. Tho·.f' instances could be multiplied, not merely in Quccnsbnd but throughout Aus­tralia, Another reason which compelled coni users to look to other fuels than caul '"", the lack of continuity of cmd supplies tht·ough strikco. liad it not br."n for the circumstances I hav-e mentioned people wo:1ld have continued to use coal-burning n1achinory, lmt they wnre unfortunately cc1upclled to giye up engines u::~ing an Aus­tralian product for intl'rnal cotnbustion l'llgill('s using a foreign product. So far as suction gas plants arc concerned, \YOod

instead of coal was used.

This Bill cannot compel people to use coal, ·nd it -..vill uot bring about a greater use of

coal, becanso it is designed purely for the purpose of bringing· a.bout an increase i11 the price of coal. I agree with those hon. nwmbcrs who haYe described this as an extraordinary and drastic Bill. ::Vly flrst objection is to the title, which in order properly to describe the contents of the Bill should roa.d : " A Dill to provide for a com­bine of employers and employees to exploit the users of coal." The Bill goes further than tha.t. It smashes every plank of the Labour Party's platform. Never before has

[JiT. JYiorgan.

a Dill boon introducccl into this House bv a Govonunent allegedly democratic in out­look that would be the means of smashing to ~.mitherecns eyory plank iu the Labour Party's platform. Not one feature of the Bill is in accordance with the vie1v-s of tl10 conference tha.t formulates Labour's policy. \'Vhy the Labour Party ugreed to this mea­sure I cannot understand. The hem. mem­ber for Ipswich must haYc had c•xtraordi­nary influence. In the flrst place, the Bill proYidos for plural voting. In other wonis, although a factory O"\Vncr ernploying pro­bably 500 men has only one vote al a local authority election (and sometimes has no vote at all), the voting under this moasun' \Yill bo proportionate to the quantity of {'val p~·oduced, so that ·with n Yoting pO\H't' ~xtc'nclmg· from one v-ote to eleven .-otes the influential coal companies >v-ill s\\·amp the small companies. That principle is not observed in any other sphere. For example, a wheatgrower cultivating 2,000 acres of w~eat has no more voting strength in cer­tam matters than the wheatgrower on a smaller acreage. I alwayc. understood it ,,·as a. plank of the Labour Party's platform not to give greater yoting strength to what hon. members opposite ·refer to as the "capitalist crown"; yet in this instance the ~_.abour Government are giving power to brg coalmining companies to dominHT over small companies in the matter of coal production. Moreover, this Bill gives a rnonopoly to existing mines. Labour rnern­bers have times out of number accused tho ~\J ationalist Party of being the friends of combines. monopolies, and trusts; yet the Labour Gov-c'l'nment are introducing logis­L•tion which will create one of the groate3t monopolies ever formed in this State. :t\o Bill of this description has ever been intro­duced in an Australian Parliament let alone in a.ny Parliament in the world, 'mor•J especially b;, a. Labour Government. If the Bill had been introduced by a Gmosenative Party-and it ould have to be an extreme Conscn·ative l>arty that would do it-there might bo some justification for hem. mem­bers opvosito in saying it was intended io cater for the interests of the wealthy classes. \Ye knO\\ that the Labour J?rinv ;u·1;

opposed to that sort of thing. T'lwyo claim yotcs b~cause they say they arc against monopolies, trusts, and combines ,-et thov introduce a Bill which is going' t;, smash cyery plank of their platform.

Tho :\linistcr !mows the cliflicult v of cstab­li~hing au export trade for our co;,l, becausn ~LC has had a certain arnouut of experience 11~ thosn nuttlors, and he has infonnation at his di~posa] which onlinar ,· hon rncinbers ha\~C not. \Ye are sending:-- a n1~n OVPl' to the East to explore the possibilities there. I "m ho1wfu! tint it will be a sucocs-, and that \YC slmll be able to export coal to Eastern conntrjcs, but '\Yhen \YG realise that the countries v;hich supply them can lllarkcL their ('Ofll at :1 lo\Y co!:lt i11 cornparison with Australia \\'O rnnst corno to t.ho condusion that it i~ ahsolutdy impo:•siblc to establish an expo1·t traJe \Yith the Ea~t. China and other countr·ies there ha.-e millions of tons of roal at their disposal, whirh they are able to work at mw-half the cost ai Yvhich we work our coaL lt, therdorc, appears to he almost an i111possibility to o~tahlish an export trado for coal ovcrs<.as. If we do establish an export trade overseas, we shall haYo to sell the coal bc,low the cost of production,

Coal Production [15 NovEMBER.] Regulation Bill. 1463

as we have to compete with other countries with cheap labour.

What is the effect going to be on the users of coal in QLteemland? In order that the coalminers may be ablo to say, "vVc can send so many tons of coal overseas at a loss," and in order that they rnay con­tinue to pay the exist in p; wages and m{~ct the overhead costs of the mines, we are asked to increase the cost of coal to the people in the State. That is just the same as in other industries; the people have to pay for increased costs. It will mean that then• will be an increased cost of coal, and tho' c indmtrios which use coal will be compelled to abandon their coal-burning pl.ants and install plants 1rhich will burn oil or other fuel. Instead of being beneficial to the coalowncrs of the State, this Bill is going to be cletrimonta] to them. The only thing the Bill will do will be to increase the price to the users of the coal in Queens­land.

The Minister says thn price of coal, so far as gas and electric light arc conccerncd, does not count. If his argument is good, then if thev receive the coal for nothing they would "not be able to r'educe the price of ga.s or elod.ricity; or, if coal went up from £1 a ton to £2 a ton, they would still be able to charge the same price for ~as vr electricity as they charge to-day. His statPnl!'nt is silly and ridiculous, and I cannot in1agine it cmning fron1 a sensible indi.-idual like tho Minister. I do not know what he wanted to "put over" us. It is idle for tho ::VIinister to sav that an iilcrca~e in tl1o JH'icc of cord is V not going to influence the price of ga.8, which if; n1adP from coal. or of clectrieity, and that if we reduce it it is not going to affect prices either. He forgot to mention thP most important thing from the point of .-iew of the. country and the people-that is. the raihva~ "'· which arc thE' greatest consuiners of coal in Queensland. In fact. the raih1 ays consnmc the greaicst quantity of the coal pro­duced in Quocnslnnd. _\ c0rtain amouut is cow umcd L:v oth0r enstmn~'rs, but ihc rail­\,-ays ran be looked npon as thn greatest cvstonu~rs of tho colliC'ry O\YnPrs; yPt the :Vlini,tor de>es not can' a jot \Yhat happens to thPm. The cost of coal to the rail\\ a vs <Yas £290.000 last vC'ar, hnt tho Govcrnrnc;It do nnt ea I"O whf'! iwr the price is put up. If tlw price is increaood by h. a ton it \vill mean £15.000 more to the railways. but "·hat rlo tl;c• Go.-errmwnt ea re? It can be passed on to tho users of t.ho raihn1v:-. But if freigl1t~ and fan> bPcorric exrC'::;siYe then the railways are not nsed. The in­croast~d freights and fares charged b~T the Oo­vcrnrnent haYe PnconragC'd n1otor and other forn1s of tra11:-nort to ronl])f'tn \Vith tho rnih·,a~'.;, It is- only- by exc(>~siYr fr0ighh and fares that the motor peonlP have been e-nabled to compf'to wiih the railwap. Had the freights and farf's been reaso11ahlr- the motor r0onlo eoulcl not. have competed on an rccnomic basis, arcd thoro 1\0tt!d have fwen littlP or no compchtTon from that forrn of transl)Ort, but bf-<'anso 1YC' e-xacted exorbitant freip:hts and fares--especially on rcrtnin rlns.;;,0s of gooc1s--\YC in,-it,cd con1-pctition. Wo called out from the house-tops tc- the ownors of motor vehicles to compote with u'! That is tho onl.v reason why motor transport has g-ot a hold in Qncon,land. Otherwise we wonlcl not havu had occaeion for a Bil! to rruvcnt compciilion {l"Om th:tt

form of transport. The SDcrotary for Mines does not care a rap, but what does the Minister for Transport think about this Bill? Is the Secretary for Mines going to protect tho Commissioner for Railways alld the employees and users of the rail­\\·ays? Further c-ompetition with the rail­'' ays by motor transport wili mean . fewer railway employ,~cs and greater poolmg of \\ ork for those still remaining in the em­p]m-ment of the Commis,ioncr. If the price of 'coal be raised the Railway Department \Yill suffer most, as it \Vi~l mean an increase in the freights and fares and thereby giving :~ fillip to competition from motor transport. It appears that the Minister is not troubled so long as he can force the Bill through and thereby benefit a certain section of the communih-, although another section may suffer. I- guarantee that, had I remained in the oflicc of ::VIinister for Transport. there would have been a further reduction in the coal bill of the department. I was not satisfied with the prices that were hoing paid for coal. \Ye could have called for tenders and obtained our coal from :\'ew South \Yales more cheaply than we were paying the coalowrwrs of Queensland for an inferior commodity. The Railwa,- De­partrnent should bP r'un aR a busincs; con­cern and nobody has the right to intcl"fere with the Conrmi&sioner in any way. When l became Secretarv for Railways I found that the Labour Parh- had ailowr'd the coal­owners to exploit tlie department by snp­!•lying an inferior coal. .\fter the J\foore CO\-ernmcnt altered the method of purchas­ing coal and bought by remits and not by quantity there was a g-reat irnpro\·orrwnt­,;Ycry engine-driver will tell you of the impro1·cment-but to-clay it would appear that we are to go back to the old sy·,tem, and the unfortunate part is that we ha.-o to pay whether we like it or not.

This Bill does not apply to State mines or to agreements made between the Commis­sioner for Railway'; and the State mines. 1t does not, however, protect the Commis­sioner for .Raihvays in regard to obtaining supplies of coal from the private coal­owncr.s. There should be a clause to protect the Commissioner from exploitation. The­Commi·,gioncr is the largest ronsun1cr of coal in tbo State, and he should not be asked to do sonH~thing detrirncntal to his int~rests uwrcly to helri some other inclmtry. An att.c•mpt is being made to ask him to pay the piy1cr again just as he has been rnade to do for n1any yenrs. A rPduetion in ralhvay freights was made in order to help Mount _)[organ, and later the sa1no action vva- t~tken in orclCJ" to h<'lp :\Iount [sa. The Railv;ay Departnwnt had to help thcce plac< s by carrying freights at a considPrahlc loss. The ra ilwo<s should uot he asked to do these lhing.-:5.~ If it -!P necrs~~ury that assistance lw grantee! to inclusteics in Quoonsland, then such assi>toncc should come from conw!idated rcYenuc.

:\[r. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. mem­bee is getting rather wide of the principles of tho Bill.

Mr. GODFREY MORGA:-\: I realise that, Mr. Sp0akcr. BLit I look upon this Bili as being purely and simply aimed at tho Hrtilwa.v Departrncni, since the 2\Iinister has stated that the users of gas and electricity will not suffer in any v.-ay. \Vho is going to suffer? 'Ihe Railway Department, ami

J11r. j"'Jorgan.]

1464 Coal Production [ASSEMBLY.] Regulation Bill.

tlw,t is v:hy I a1n dwelling rather long 01~ that particular aopoct of the question. I hope aml trust that the Minister will allow an anlmHlrul'nt of the Hill whcrcbv the Coln­rni:--'_,loner \Yill get protection, a~nd not bo <Jt the mercy of cxvloiters. The railways a re a UoYcrnnlCllt concern owned bv the veoph•, and the least we can tlo is to pl'otect our o>Yn property. )...._ 111an who allows hirn­s ,lf to Lo cxr)loited in anything in vvhid1 he ha::; an interr- t has no right to ha Ye

c0ntrol of that thi11g. Tlw railways are carrying coal at a loss jn order to thP coal induotry.

A (}OYEmDlE::-<T J\I;.:j;BJ-;R : ·where?

I\lr. UODFEEY MOUUA:'or: Throughout Quecn~land. l ha Ye gone into the 1natter thoroughly, and I Jind that coal is ono of the lm1 '"t freighted of commodities. The raihvays Wl're lo;;ing cnonnous :'-iLHns of n1oney on it, trall,j>Ort, and thrtt fact tends to prove 111y argun1ent.

Mr. BR\KD: The freight \Yas more than the coal was worth.

'Er. CODFREY :VIORGA:'or: I know that. If a lo:cs is not sho\Yn on the carriag·e of the high freight goods, then the loss muot accrue £ro1n il1c {;arriago of the low freight goods. lu rPply io the hon. wcmlwr for .bis. l would voint out that it cu~ts just ..t;:- ruuci1 to haul a uuck load of ood lUO miles ao it does to haul a, truck load of l.·. ool a sirnilar distance, but the height on the wool '' ould probably bo 500 per cent., 600 per ceut., nnc( even 700 per cent. greater than the freit;ht ou tho coal.

i\lr. C. C. TAYLOR: The hon. member for Ipswich said that you vvore wrong.

~dr. GOJJFJH~Y 1\lURGAl\': lle knows J1othi11g about it. I was ::icerotary for Rail· \vays in the I\looro Go\·ernnlcnt, and I went into the·_o rnattcrs. Figures \YCl'e iJl'Oc1uccd to 1nc \Yhcn the coalo\YliCl'S triPd to " put one oYer " the l{arhvay DepartlHCllt. \Yhen l hey mL!lted the Uaih ay Departflll'!Jt to pay a certain price for coat, the (__;ounni~~iml~'l' for Hailways, in order to counteract their actions in trying to exploit the clcpartntt)Ut, immediately stalod, ·' \cry well, we will incrPasc the cost of conveying your co;-J." That put a stop to their little game. The Uailway Department then caller! for tendc·rs for the mpply of coal. The hou. mcmbrcl' for llblvich ~ald that l \Va . ..; rcspon~iblc fur a n Llnctioll in Uw cost of cual supplied to the H.ail 1,\ ay Dopattrllent, aud that l had i11jurcd tho \,corkers. The workers nothing to do with it. J dl'cided that tenders should- be called for tl~<o supply Df coal to the Hailway Department and I ''vas instrunlL·ntnJ in ~aving the dev'arbnent In any 1 hou~auds of pound~. l glory in the face that I was <~t the head of the depart­nH'nt and }n a vosltion to watch over tJw iutcrc;;L3 of the people by 11ot allowing the Hailway lJ<?partrncnt to be e-<ploitcd hv one st?ction of the communitv. I would cl~ the san1e thing again to-rnori·o\v.

The hon. member fm' Ips\rieh also stated i hat the output of coal had declined by approxirnatcly 50 pPr cent. There are 1nany rcasoos for this rhecline. He also stated that D.[lproxirnate}y the sarne uurnbor of coal­miners as Y ere employed during the peak output now depend U)1on the industry for a livelihood. That is the real economic diffi­culty. 'When the slaughteryards in and a round the city of Brisbane were closed following the establishment of the abattoir,

[Mr. Morgan.

did the Government assume the re·ponsi· bility of providiJJg emvloyment for the men who were thrown out of wmk, and drd the Uo\-CrilDll'nt assume responsibility for fnld­jng ornployrnont for thousands and thousand::; of men who wore displaced as eaddicrs, ],lacksmiths, coach and carriag·e builders, by the adYeut of the motor system? 1\'o. Th • workers \YCre told that their imlustrics had di~appcarc'J in the evolution of the. n1otor iudustry. The hou. nlernber for Iv:·vvich l!OW

suggests that if the coahnining ir1dn::~try can proYide a reasonable lin,lihoocl for only fifty n1cn in a district, artiftcial lllCfll:s _should 1Je adopted to provide a n~a:::onablc hYing for lOO lllcu from the industry in that district. \Yhv ~hould we boo,~t an inc1ustl'\- lr"T passing an :\et of ParJiarnent to a'3~ist "'a11" industry which is c.1pable of provldlng four or fivf~ f1a.vs' work a \:vcck for fift.v n1en on a rea','Oll­abie \rage so that the lO{f men now engagt1 d in that district for hYo or three days a week can b" nlarecl 011 tlrat basis? \Yhat right have we 'to trPat the coalrnining indus­try differenth· ham anv other? \'\"by should it- be made ~ favoured Sl'dion of the corn­mnnih? A Bill has been introduced to give ]Jrcfer'ential treatment to ono section of the cornrnunity at the ex11CnSf~ of another. II(~Il. members must know that if preferential trcahneut is to be given to one :;:cction of the commnnity it must be paid for by auothe1· section or sections. and thnt JS 1.vhat v;ill happ<m undr'r this Bill. One coalmine may IJe profitably worked eo that coal can lH' sold at 15s. per ton. Th" width of the se<un 1nay n1ake this possilJlc, but \Yhy should the comrnnnit.; bP called upon to pay,_ say, 19s. per ton becau:-:e the narrowness ~f the seam in another coalmine "·ill not pcrmrt of tlw coal lwing sold to t.lw connnnnity. at a lesser 11rice? \Vhy should the coalmmo with the narrO\\T sPan1 not haYC' to go to the wall in the same way as any other unprofit­able indnstry would have to go to the wall? I rP1wat : vVhy should the comnmmty be compcllecl to pay 19s. per ton for coal hmvn frotn an luwconornic rn1nc. whl'n coal can be sold from a not her mine at 15s. rwr ton?

lYir. \YJEXHOW': "\re YOU in favour of a bounty on wheat? "

Mr. GODFTIEY :MORGXX: \Vhcn the sub­ject comes up I shall ans>nr. (Laughter.) J: agree v:iih ihc hon. ntPnlber for Ii'assjff~rn that we .arc gradually reachjng sue~ n staf:ie in couneciion \Yith bonutics that tlwy w1ll cn'ntuftllv have no beneficial effect. The principle; of this Bill am different from the principles affectiug the bounty on wheat. As I have indicated, this Bill will in many \Yay6 do something >Yhich no other Bill has don<'. Fnrth0r. it n1akrs proYision for a I11inirnu1n pnrc. That is an extraordinary provisiou.

The extraction of oil from coal may he the salvation of the cord industry. At the proscut time Australia is entirely dependent on foreigners for petrol supplies; and in the eyent o{ an jnyasion or war her jndustries wonld be seriously jco·pardisf'cl. Anything that can be done to help the coalowners to establish plants for the extraction of oil from coal is worthy of consideration. A subsidy could be gl:,mtNl for such experi­ments bv either the Fctleml or State Govern­ruents. · \Yhen I was 1\Iinister for Transport I met certain coalowncrs and informed them that the Government were prepared to help tlkrn in that direction. The coalowners made no fight against the producers of oil. They immediately gaYe in to them and did

Goal Production [15 NovEmBEH.] Regulation Bill. 1465

not put up a tu5slc. It has been proved in Britain that oil and other valuable by­products can be extrr~cled from coal. but the coalownprs here " lr~y down on the job" and permitted the producers of motor spirit to take their trade. They now come along and want the Government to assist them in recovering it. but tho proposed method of assistance will be detrimental to the State's interests. Thco Government would be wdl advised to help the coalowners in every respect, even to tho granting of a subsidy from coneolidatccl revenue to establish plants for the purpose of extracting oil from coal. That \\·oulcl tend to increase the output of coal enormously. This Bill will not increase the output; it will reduce it because coal consumers will substitute other machinery than that they have now, in order to save the increased overhead costs which an increase in the price of coal will create. This Bill will incn>ase the price of coal to the Commissioner for Railways and tho gas and electric light companice. That increase must be passed on to the users. 'The increase may compel the electric light authorities to :ntroduce some other power to operate their plants. That reminds me that when I was Minister fm· Transport representatives of tho gas and electric light companies waited on me and complained about the freight rates on coal. The Uo1nmissioner 'Yas ablo to show that the railways were carrying· this coal at a very low rate. At the same time, we knew that the gas and electric light pro­prietors were n1akillg Yery big profits. Yet thev lent their assistance to an effort to sccZn·c reduction in freight rates, which were n'ry low. The Commissioner turned the fJroposal down. Shortly a Bill will be intro­duced providing for reductions in the prices of gas ancl electric light. Such reductions are desirable, bL!t, they "-ill not be brought about by increasing the price of coal.

The hon. member for Ipswich said that I was responsible for reducing the wages of coalrnincrs. I had nothing· to do with it. The wages of coalmincrs are dealt with bv a special tribunal. Tbis tribunal reduced the wages of cnalmin0rs by 10 pPr cent., whereas at the same time the wag·es of practically eYerv other v,orker in the State and Com­monwealth were reduced ·by 22~ per cent. Yet, like the white-haired boy, they com­plamecl about the harsh manner in which they had blen treated! In fact they received specially favoured trea trncnt'. All other workers receivccl reductions equivalent to 22~ per cent., and many lost their jobs. The wage reduction suffered bv coalminers was small in comparison. I h<;Ye alrcadv etatccl that where the coalminers worked full shifts they were able in sorno districts to earn up to £2 pc•r day. The :Minister may say in reply that these men got \\Ork on only one or two clays of the week. That, how­ever,. is not the fault of the users of coal, but 1s due to the fact that there arc too many men in the industry. It is all nonsense to talk about the unhealthy nature of coal­tnining. I have seen many coahnincrs, and a. healthier, stronger, and rnoro vigorous class of man it would Le difficult to find. As a matter of fact, if I wanted a tug-of-war team that would beat allcomers I would eclcct that tDm from among ·t the ranks of coal­miners. Of cours~, rnany years ago tho con­ditions urHler \Yhich coalmining 'vas con­ducted may have bcc·n unhealth:~;, but those times have gone.

Mr. O'KEEFE: Any condition in a mine "here work has to be carried on underground is unhealthy.

Mr. GODFREY :VI ORGAN: To some extent, Lut not to the degree that the hon. memlwr would have us believe. Further, sonw mines are rnuch n1ore unhealthv than others. A peroon has more chance o( being killed crossing one of the intersections in QuePn street than \Yorking in one of the n1inos at lpSIYich.

I urge tlH-~ GoYernmcnt to reconsider this matter and withdraw this Dill, which is dangerous a11d which evcrv ban. mc1nher on the Gm-crnrnent side no, doabt realioes is dangerous. Why this Bill is being intro­duced bv a Labour Government I cannot unrleL·sta;HJ. At any rate, so far as I am concerned, I shall do mv best to prenmt the measure being enacte(J.

Mr. FOLEY (1\' onnanby) [11.50 a.m.]: Unquestionabl;v the hon. member for Mm·illa has a vivid irnagination, because he has been able to read into this Bill rnanv matters which I ha,·e not been able to fin(! after a close study of it. For example, I cannot find anything in the Bill that provide· for increasing the price of coal, nor ~an I see that if the Dill becomes operative it will havs that effect. Other factors outside the scope of this rneasurc rnay be responsible.

During the remarks of the• hmL m cm be1· for lVIurilla a very pertinent interjection was made by the hon. member for Fassi­fern as to whether the speaker believed in the principle of a bounty on wheat. Of courw, the hon. member for Murilla does, because he has alreadv aclvocatccl it. Last week that hon. nwmbe;, and other hon. mem­bers supported a measure introduced into this Parliament having for its aim the stabi­Iisation of the dairying industry throughout the Commonwealth. and the hon. member for Murilla also believes in the stabilisation of the sugar industrv. The measure no\v before the House does not contain some of the principles c>mbodied in legislation which gives effect to stabilisation in the industries I haYC mentioned. This Bill makes no pro­vision for the regulation of price or for the organi:;;ation of the industry in such a -..vay that the local price will be fixed with du" regard to the necessity of recouping the loss that orcurs in exporting a surplus over intcrna l requirernent,s. Kone of those prin­ciples is ombodiccl in this measurC'. They have been embodier] in other measures such as the Regnlation of Sugar Cane Prices Act, the machinery of which provides in a mea­sure for a b~unty on sugar to make up fo17

the deficiency in the price obtained for the exportable surplus. There is also pro,·ision made for the restriction of output in that industry. Tha same principle is cmbodie_d in this measure, the object being to permit the Central Coal Boards to decide whether a new co,1lmine shall be opened in any other district in the State. It will be found that when thB machinery created under this mea­sure is in operation) if there is a greater clomand for coal than c<tn be supplied by the mines already operating, any board appointed uncl0r tl;c Act can give the n~ces­sa r:v penait for the opening up of nevv rrunes.

The obj0ct of the measure is purely and simply to create the necessary fac1hbes. ~nd n1achinorv. RO that a measure of stabihsa­tion cnn be brought ahout in tho coal indus­try. \Ye are really advocating a new prin­cipl0, but it does not mean that we are giving a monopoly to the existing coal

JVlr. Foley.]

1466 Goal Production [ASS [~iVIBLY.] Regulation Bill,

interests in the State. It may appear that we are-one could no doubt present a case to 1nake it appear that \Ve are-but we have eYory safeguard. \Vhcn the demand for coal increases to tho extent that the present n1inos car1not cope \vith itl the necessary permits for the opening- of further mines will be granted.

This Bill in effect deals with a problem that i_; confronting- ovcrv countrv of the world, o\ving to d10 graCJual fall~ng-ofF in the number of users of coal and the cut­tln·oat conlpetition of somo couutrit's against otl1Prs. I refer particularly to the com­petition of Africa, which to a certain extent di3organ ised th(~ coal trade of Eugland and ~\merica, and also that of Australia. The South African Gon,mmont by a system of high rebate;, to th:~ coahnining industry were 1·esponsible for assisting the eoahnini11g indus­tn in So•1th Africa to such an cxtcut that it, was able to comrwte wrcessfully with the coahuining industries in England, Arneriea. and Australia, with the result that in these countries thPy ha Ye boon serionsly affected. \Ye caunot do much to meet that competition oxcPpt hv adopting similar method,;. It is qLtite po;;_,iblc that after thr inYe;;;tigations are concluded of the repre•-entatiYcs who arc being sent overseas by the coalmining inter­ests of Queensland and the GoYernmcnt, and tiH:ir r<~rort is subrnittcd, \YO rnay be able to incrPase the production of coal and build vp an export trade. The UoYernmcnt rnay then l>e induced to consider f'criou-,lv so·no­thiJJg along the lines adopted by thO South A.frican Covcrnn1ent. That is a question which will have to be decided on its merits at a later elate.

The MinistPr pointed out the po,ition of tlm eo>tlmining industry in 1929, when there were approximately 3.000 or more employees working in it. He also emphasised the effect which emplo.'.·nwnt in the mining industry has, according to rnining expert.:!, in creat­ing Olllllloynlcnt for rnen in other jndustrics to doubln the uumhcr of tho'o employee] in thP industrv. I rnncmbPr lYh. :\IcCormack rlealiug- with the effect of the mining indus­try in general, about 1921, and pointing out that tlwre WPro in the Yicinity of 40,000 men engaged in the coalmining and metalliferous indmtries in the State. He enlarg-ed on the enorntous bPnofits 1vhieh that employn1Pnt gaYe to oihcr industrie.s dependent on min­ing. l\lining artiYities during that l)Priod resulted in considerable actiYity in business and trade eireles generally. \Ye should giYc credit where credit is due, and the Govern· mont should get credit for ell(]eavouring to bring about grC':Jt stability in the coahn1ning indu,tr~'. and if possible get hack to t.hO stag0 where 3.000 n1cn werC ·working in the indu'<try, as the l\1inister has statPd was the case in 1929. If that could be done then the introduction of tfw nwasurc would at least be ju,tified. Of couroc, it remains to be soon whethN th0 personnel of the boards will hayc the ner:es,:;ary capafjty so to orga­nise the indu~try that a con~jderab1o irnproYe­ment will result.

It has been said that iho Bill will result in an incn~a~c ill tlw price of roa1 and thus affPct 1 ho railways, electric light companies, gaR con1panicR, and the pubhc gt'ncrally. Had the hon. member for :\1urilla carefuliv studied this measure he \\~ould have found that tho Dill has made provision whereby any consun1cr may rnakc an appeal to the ComnliNsioncr of Price.;; in the event of an increase in the price which he considers

[Jlr. Foley.

unjust. That is one protection to the con­sumer. On the other hand, if the Commis­sionr~r for Railways or any other person con­sidrn; eYen after a decision has been given bv the Comrnis'lioner of Prices that the price of coal is not satisfactory, there is nothing to )HeYent him from obtaining his supplies from the other States. Purchasers have done this on occa~~ions ·when thev have eonsjdered the local prices exorbitan( The Bill itself contains the necessary facility, but, in addi­tion. consumers have other facilities at their disposal to enable them to chock an,l' increase in price that is liable to react disadvan­tageously on tlw con1n1unity.

The alleged spoon~feeding of miners in the coal industry is another point that has b"on stressed. I cannot in any way see how the miners in this State or in any other State of the Commonwealth have been Bpoon­fed over the last few vcars. In the Blair Athol district, "hich is 'adjacent to my own electoratC', I an1 safe in saying, oyer the last couple of years the miners haYe not averaged more than 0110 day's employment a week frou1 the 1nine. The sanl8 a11plics to many other district~. There perhaps are one or two n1ii1es v;,Thich have been able to give their cmpcoyees a little more \YOrk than that, but thmughout Queensland generally the reduc­tion of \York offering as a result of ihe big fulling-o![ in trade ha~' been such that the avcrave 111illcr has bccu reduced to ncarlv the lc~Yel of tlw >tveragP imennitrcnt rc:ie'f worker. In tho face of that. how can the hon. member state that the miners have bocn spoon~fod ancl Yvill be spoon~fccl under this measure? 'l'he Dill has nothing- to do with the fixation of tho lnincrs' wages. rrhore is another tribunal yvhich deals with that ques­tion. The statement has been made that ~ornc rnincl's have earned np to £2 per day. That may be so, but the ho11. rnen1ber need-, to df~al in rtYl'rages if he \YiBhes to prove any useful conclusion as to the C'rtrnings of the <1Yf:!ragc rni11el'. T think the hou. melJ-­bcr for ::\iurilla is referring to the C'arnings of ono or two r11int r::~ in tho Biair Athol cli.<;;trict. During a \ isit there a few years ago he \\as taken through the mine and latcor on sho~• n the wa:s·cs slwets. I think there were ont or t\\-o instances in \Yhich indi~ viJual rHinoL3 1-vcre carnillO' Yerv high rates per day, but that was due:' to the fact that in a big and v ell de,·elopecl mine one or two bonis will be found so advautageously situated and Yvith the coal headings running in such directions that a miner with a fc"· shots a Lla:"- {_an bring down an . enormous quantity of coal. In another port10n of the mine, verha11~ 100 yards a1Yay, the minPrs may be yvorking like slaves to get between 16 and 18 tons of coal a da·:. In the first ca~n the lnitH'r and l1is whcc:Cr (',_Lfl probalJly knock drnn1 and wheel tu the pitmouth up to 30 tons .:1 clay. There are cc·rtain portions of the mine Yvhcrc the borcls arc so ,ituated that coal i~ easily 1von, r~nd it is very unfair to point to the fact that one or two individuals in this mine can cam up to £2 a clay and givP the imprr ,;sion lo the public that that is the an:rage ('arnlngs of the avPragr~ ruiner. I arn f'ati>fif'd that ihc ~~arnings of the aYCI'ag(' n1inc'l' thJ'(mghout Quccn~land wou]d be well belov £1 Pl'r day, and it must not lw forgotten that the miner has to pay for frad'•ur ancl other incidentals out of that. HP is Pntitlccl to all the monev that he can et:n;. I haYf' pointc•d out 0nrlit~r that miners \Yorkiug bPlow 1nn~t \Vork jn gl'iJne and dust and subject t!wmsehcs to the hazards of the

Goal Production [15 :NOVEMBER.] Regulati•m Bill. 1467

industry. Every miner has to take risks. He must expose himself to danger when de a ling with overhanging bodies of coal in the roof. In trying to remove a body of coal that is "drurr1rny," and appears to be loose he must take a risk because it is somctitnes in1po~­sible to rcrnove the coal even \Yith the !test of bars and other facilities. Probaolv a quarter of an hour after he starts th~ whule of ilw overhanging body has fallen to tl1e floor following the penetration of air into crack~ and fis8urcs. Thcrc are other risks that must be' taken in this particubr mine. In some instances the bord,; are 14 feet high, and after shooting a face a crack appears from the top to the bottom of some of the rcJally good bards. The miner stands in an ,,,wkwnrd position barring down the coal so that he and his wheeler can get it to the ]Jitrnouth. Anything could happen in cir­cumstances like that, and very often the miners find it impossible to get awav when a fall takes place. The miners are also dieadvantageously placed with regard to light. Some of them >York with mfety lamps whilst others work with an open light on their caps. These lamps do not give a very strong light at all, and rts a result the men employed in the industrv suffer more from ophthalmic trouble than "those in any other industry iu 1\.ustra~ia or any other country in the world. 'l'aking all these facts into co~H3i.rleration, a rnl~n· is entitled to every shillmg. that he mig:ht earn. .That is my concluswn after a little experience in the industry.

I am satis[ied that when the Dill is in operation the monoply that is feared will not materialise. In the past enery Tom, Dick, or Hany was permitted to open a coal seam and >York it, provided he kE'pt reasonably close to the mining regulations. These men were p('rmittcd to compote with the well-dm·eloped mines that were com­pelled to carry a high overllE'ad cost. The result has been that production has far outpaced the demand for coal, and it is tim that this uneconomic position was remedied in the way in which >Ye have remedied simi­lar economic difficulties in the sugar and other industries.

The boards to be established under this Bill will regulate the indusby in euch a :'·ay that it will be managed in the best n,terests of all concerned. Tho boards will han> power to make leYics for the purpose of crc:1ting a fund, which aruonO'st other thin~s will be utilised to exploit the possi­brhtre>s of producing oil and other by· pro­ducts from coaL That 11ill bo ach-antagcous to Queensland. In the past that obligation \\"as thrown on one company which thus alone usually had to J;loar a h''""Y expendi­ture. The rc··pons1hlrty wrll nm.- be borne b:y the whole industr.Y, and any adYantacres l'NC]~od . wi! l naturally be sh; rPcl by the ,.-how mdustry. I know 11·hat has been done by ~01110 con1panies incli\~iduallv rn <}('~patching l'C'pl'Cf'C'lltatiYC'S OY('l'SC'US~ to c·xploit the pos-ibilitiPs of tho markets there. The Xe•wcastln Coal :Mining- Company, Blair Athoi, .rncurrcd ..-ery cons1Jl'rab1c cxvonsc~ DlOrP than it could rea ~onabl'-:7 afford---in ('XlJ lojti11g tho posf'ibillt~· of (_ stn blishing a market for its coal in the East. It >Yent to (·on:-:;iclcl'abl(~ . (·xpenso in rnining-~ shipping) nnd fonYfll'(llng coal tD ng('nt~ ill the East. and pranicall~Y gaYo it a1vay rn an Cll·· dcaYonr to JH'oYe its adyantagcs over oth(~l' coah. In spite of that effort very little

trade romltcd. My point is that tho whole cxpome of that action was borne by an iEdi,·idual company, Many companies are handicapped financially in taking individual action to discover overseas rnarkcts. Time alone will tell whether this measure will result in any great benefit to the industry. Cne could hrguo that a good deal rnore can be done by organisation and co-ordination of the various interests in the industry, but if, as in the past, all those interests con­tinue to work individually and indepen­dently of each other little improvcm1cnt can be expected.

·when I first studied this measure I thought that the larger collieries would have a predominating Yoting power, but on inquiry discoyered that before the Bill was C'YCl1 frmncd the principles of voting power on the boards had been mutually agre0d upon by the component in le rests in the indnstry and then submitted to the Minister. As the Bill has boren moclellecl on the basis of those recommendations, then the rPsponsi­bility is on those who m.rtde the recommen­dations, The Minister has embodied those principles in legislatiYe form in an endeavour to assist the industry.

The benefit, to be derived from this Bill are great, not only to the State, but the eolliery owners and miners. T1H-~ Govern­ment are granting all the facilities that thu industry co11sidcrs ncccssar,y to co-ordinato tho Yarious interests, and after this legisla­tion becomE's law much will depend on tho ability of the personnel of the representa­tives on the various boards as to whether ic will be succes;;ful or otl,crwise. So far as I am concorned, I give it n1y support and sincerely hope that as a result of its enactn1c11t some irnprovemcnt \vill accrue to the industry.

11r. DRAND (I.1is) [12.18 p.m,): Every llt!,tion in the world regards its coal resources as a great national aeset. Other Parlia· ments have given considerable attention to the development of those resources. Queens· htnd is fortunate in pos::;essing so many and varied coal deposits. Those deposits exist throughout e\·cry district. For a number of years it "'RS n1y privil0gc to represent the large coalmining centre on the Burrum field. Dnring that time I had the opportu· nity of studying the life and conditions of the eo a !miner and the difficulties of the coal­owners. Understanding the di(!icnlties of the· mining and marketing of coal, I give m.v suppurt to the principles contained in this measure. I welcome this Bill because iL seems to provide the necessary machinery for the proper control of this important industry. Those people concerned in the indnstry arc to be congratulated on sub mitting to the Minister the principles that. ,,·ere ultimately embodied in this Bill, which I trust will be cnactccl. I do not regard this measurn as altogether t"'\:traordinar:y because in these da,-s of modern parlia 1ncntar.Y practice it is ahnost a, usual InCa· ~urc. lVIorcoYf'l'. if I a.n1 t.o rcrnain loyal t(J ihc f'Ugar indu8try. to tho dairying in· dustry, and to the wheat and other agri · cultural industries in the action which they hav" taken to secure control of their respec­tive industries by legislative means, then T 1nust ~upro:·t a Bili ''hi eh providc•s for a imilar principle in th0 case of the coal

rnlning industry. Mr. O'KEEFE: You arc consistent.

11-lr. Brancl.]

1468 Coal Production [ASSEMBLY.] Rc:guZat1:c:,n Bill.

Mr. BRAND: Yes, and in my consistency I can support this measure with a. thorou_gh appreciation of the difficulties assocwted w1th <:oalmining at the present time.

In recent vears it has been found in­creasingly ne~essary to introduce legislation dealing with industries of national import­ance and of great moment to the economic life of tho State. The legislation that has so far been onact0d on tlH'sc lines has been successful in its application, and has rcsult~d in increased productivity, as tho statistics of production in sugar, wheat, etc., wlll dis­close. I have consistently given support to all legislation for the welfare of primary producers, and I belieYc it is the duty of hon. members generally to do so as reprc­.~entative of the people of Queensland. Abun · dant proof is to be had that the coalmining industry is in need of kgislativc assistance, and there are ample reasons why \Vf' should giYc the industry our support. At page 140 of tho last annual report of the Under Secretary for .Mines. the following remark' are made by the Chief Inspector of Coal Mines:-

" The total number of men engaged in the coaln1ining industry \Yas sixty-one loss than in the preYious year. Tho greatest reduction was in the lp"vich district, which shows a decrease of 113 men when compared with last year's total. Thte reduction in tho number of n1cn mnployecl in coahninc.-. in Queen-s­land \>,as 5.8 per cent. There are. hO\Y· ever, still rnan:v n1ore rnen r11gagpd 1n the industry than t ho market for coal justifies, <mcl this results in a correspond­ing amount of idle time for all. \Yith the apparent encroachment of oil as a substitute foJ· coal as " fuel thl'Oughout the world, the prospects of more rPgular crnployrnont for tho~e engagPd in coal­mining do not at prewnt appear to Le encouraging.''

1 1hat statenlPnt ('0ll1Cs frorn a. 111an "\Yho ha::. a close knowledge of the ramifications of the coalmining industry not rr1erely in Queens­land but throughout the world. He points out that thoro dot's not appear to he an:: prospect of regular employment in the coal­mining industry of Queensland. That indi­cates that the industry is in a deplorable conditjon. The nun1ber of call icrics \Yorking in Queensland js seventy~fiyc, Therr~ ''"as an increase of seven last year. yet the output has fallen since 1929 bv 527.034 tons. with a decrease in value of ·£515.044. That is a serious 1oss, not only to thC 1nen ('ngagcd in the industry but .also to the people of Queensland, and a loss which we can ill afford at any time, but e,;;~"Jecia!l, at present. It shows that the position in the industry is a sad ono. am! it has prompted :Mr. Stajnos, the 1J ndcr Secretary for }.iinf':;;, to f;ay ill hjs report-

" As the g·enProl demand for coal has der'r0a~('d, tho increase in tho nnmbcr of nJjnes nroducing cloeq not appear to be benefici:ll to the industry cono('rned."

These are the roporb of responsible officers of the State. ThP preccnt conditions ought to b(: rPli('Yf'd. v.-ithout causing any 1Jarc1-ship to ~nyonP. Tt should not cau;:;;e an.v har<bhip to tl1p conSJmJers, or 1o tho rail­way~. I submit that if the industry is to bo saYe<l from collap o, immediate · attention must be gin'n to the position.

[Mr. Brand.

Coal production in Queensland has gone back in four vcars to the level of 1910, when 871,161 tons ";ere produ_ced. From that year there was a gradual nse up to 1929, when 1 368 745 tons were produced for a value of £1,199,599. That was <1. year when we were able to secure a fair amovnt of export trade throuo-h the industrial trouble on the north­ern c;.alfi<'lds of New South 'Vales. The hon. member for Ipswich claimed that it was the result of Labour administration. If any cla1m can bo made in that regard, the credit is due to the Moore Administration, who adJ:un­istcred the affairs of Queensland for mght months of that year. I know that during that period considerably activity was tak­ino- place in the export of coal owmg to th~ disturbance in New South ·wales. It was fortunate for us, and the trade we did yielded us a very lino return. . It . would be a great thing for Queensland lf, mstoad of tho industry being worth only £1,000,000 a year, we could get to the stage whore rt would be worth £10,000,000 a year. There aro enouo-h coal resources in Queensland to wan;nt the industrv producing unlimited supplies if we could only get the markets.

Since 1929 there has been a decrease till last vear 841.711 tons were produced, valuc<l at £684,555. That is a groat reduc­tion of £515,000 in fou.r years, a very serious thing for Queensland. The coal indust-rv is undoubtedly a key industry of great 'national importance. It employs 2.199 men on tho surface and under­ground, and a lar,;e amount of capital is im·olved in the development of the mmes. To illustrate the cost of developing coal mines, let me quote the experience of the State during recent years. 'Vo know that under the last Labour Government the Department of 11ines endcayoured to develop coal 1nines in rnany cent-re~, thP desire of the Government being to socialise cvcrythiug: tho State was to o'vn its O\Vn

coal rninc~. The GoYernn1cnt launched out ·with yerv serious consequences to Queensland. '.rhe loss at \Varra, which is closed clown, was £38,018 16s. 9d.; at Dara­laba, which is also closed, the loss was £57,614 17s. 9d.; and at the Styx No. 2 there was a loss of £71,492 2s. 8d. The total losses on those three mines was £167,126, which, when added to the indebt­edness written off Mount JI.Iulligan of £177,692 12s. 1d.. brings the total loss to £344,818. Therefore, I say that the estab­lishment of State coal mines in Queensland haJ not made for the success of tho State. At the end of ,Inno. 1932, thnr(l wns an indebt­edness for the Bowen State coal minPs in Treasury Loan Fund account of £108,777, and foe the Styx of £107,947, in addition to the debt to 'l'm.·t Funds of £15,198 for the latter. These f1guros disclose that establish­ing coal mines is a Ycry co::;t]y undertaking. vVhilst the cost has boc•n a heavv ono to tho State. it has also been Jwav\-' to private persons engag-ed in the indus't.ry. rrhanks to fa.lling -n1arkPts large profits lw.vc not boon madr'. and dividPncls ho o,·e been few and far between. vYe find from the Auditor-General's report that for the finan­eial year just concluded th<~ profits on the Bowen State mine was only £6.517 3s. 10d. (for an outlay of well ov~r £100,000), and at Styx .:\'o. 3 £2,399 13.s. 7d., making a total profit. of £8.917, for an expenditure on doYclopmont of over £200,000. Those results

Coal Production [15 NovEYIBER.] Regulation Bill. 1469

disclose the fact that the people engaged in the coalmining industry are in a very diffi­'cult position. I agree with the claims made by the Minister who introduced this Bill that if the "mad hatter," insane policy of competition between the colliorios that has been going on over the last two or three years is allowed to continue it will not be ve-ry long before the industry will collapse. [ disagree entirely with the hon. member for Muril1<1 in his statement as regards competition with the railways. 'rho hon. .member claimed that the Railway Depart­ment should be able to go outside the State for its ccal ··upplics if coal could be purchased there more cheaplv than in ·Queensland. The coal mines o( Queensland haYe been of considerable advantage to the railways of the State, and I feel quite satis­fied that the Commissioner would not wish to be placed in the same position as the South Australian Commissioner. who has to import his supplies of coal ·from other Sta tos and pay very high prices for his supplies. At one period the South Aus­tralian Commissioner bouo-ht coal from Wales. 'fhroughout Quoen~land we have -coal minPs conveniently situated for rail­wa:y purposes, and these mines can provide ra1lway coal as cheaply as the other rail­wa.ys in Australia can purchase it. The Ra:lwa.y Department should give greater ass1stance to the c_oalmining industry, because, af~cr all, the mdustry provides the rallways w1th a good deal of work. It is a. fact tlmt ordinary railway freights on coal to-day are greater than the cost of the coal if it has to be carried more than 100 miles. The railway freight on coal is extraordi­narily high,. and in th"lt respect some relief ~hould bo gJVcn to the :oal industry, which b In_ a YPry '·C'l'IOU::i roslbon. Coal for export receives frotn the r..:u1wavs a conccs~ional rate wlJcrcby it can he delh·ered at the v,.ater front. at reasonable fn•ight charge". Coal suppJtps nre nPr0ssary for th~ railwav sv::;::­tenls, for rnarine traffic, and for the {lsc ··of the naYy. Our coal mines are situated at ~trategic }Joints, and could be of great advantage durmg naya] operations. Conse­quently_ we arc under a duty to protect our coal mmes, especially in view of the fact that warfare 111 the East in the next few y~ars 1s not beyond the bounds of possi­blhty. The navy can bo matc>riallv as,istcd m the protection of Australian shores bv supplies from well-developed 0oal mine~,, situated at strategic points along the sea­board.

Somo hon. members haYe dealt \Yith the possilllhty of clcreloping an export trade m coal, and I agree with the hem. member for :'\Innlla !hat the rle\'elopmont of an export trade. w1th t~e East is not an easy matter .. It IS questionable indeed whether we arc hkely to secure any orders from that ·quarter. The price to be charo·ed for our product is not conducive to thob placing of largo contracto m the Eaoc(. But the East Is not the only place to which wc can look. On_ly rC'Centl? it was brough~ under my llOLICe that Gr0ec0 was at.tf'mptlng to secure 800,000 tons of coal from the coalminco of Queensland and scekiug qnotc's from this country. It is tr_ue that the wonld-bo pur­chasc_rs \Ycrc anxious to sC"cure the coal at a pncc lower than the collici'.v companies conld afford to sell, but the inf]uiry certainly md1catecl that export markc·ts are likelv to ]w c_stab\ished if the peo]lle asmciated with 1he mclustry arc prepared to co-operate with

this end in view. The South Australian GoYcrnment require a large quantity of coal for their railway system, but these orders ha YC generally been secured by the Newcastle interests. I believe that this Bill, which pro­YidL'S for the pron1ulgat1on of coal schemes and creation of coal boards, will enable the people associated with the industry to deal with the problems connected with the export of coal. It cannot be said that these pro­blems are insurmoLmtabk. If the industry can secure the assistance of State and Fedora"! GoYornments it is possible that Queensland and eYen Australia will develop quite a large C'<port trade in coal. After all various countries in the world have had 'to seek the assistance of Governments in the cleYelop­m ent of an export tmdo in coal. Coal is produced in South Africa under cheap labour conditions, but the Goycrnment of the Union are prepared to grant a rebate of Ss. 6d. a ton on coal sold for export.

If the Bill is to be a success the collierv owners will ha vo to place the utmost trus~t and confidence in the nunagtemcnt of the central board to b<l created. That i" one of the first hurdles that the board must OYer­come--it must secure the trust and confidence of the colliery owners.

The Bill prm·idcs for plural voting. Anv colliery producing 20,000 tons of coal per annum is entitled to eleYen Yotes. This will place the control of the industrv in the hands of the large producers. It is questionable whether this principle is going to be a suc­cess. It i~ not contained in any other legis­lation which has been passed for the beucfit oi other industries. Whilst I bclicYe that the large producers of coal haYe the' best business bra ins a suspicion may exist in the industry whic·h mav lead to difficulties if the fullest tn1st and ·confidence are not reposed in tbe board. ThP industry is capable of managing Its O"\>;,n affairs. Its captains have shown a desire to clC\·elop its re,o;ncPs. Thev have ~hown notable enterprise. anU busine~s acu­~D('D in discharging orders and eont.racts. It IS my hopP that the fullest confidence will Lo rcposecl in the board.

Hon. members need not be afraid that the Central Coal I3oard \Yill fix a price for coal that will place it beyond the purchasing powc1· of users. To-day the pric<l of coal is larg-ely ba~ed on the deterrnination of the Federal Coal Tribunal. A rednction has been granted to the railways and other largo users. It is not likely that the price fixed by i he coal tribunal will bo the price determined hv the Contra! Coal Board. At least. there is' a protection in regard to the price to be charged by the provision of an appeal to the chairman of the Central Coal Board. who is also the Commissioner of Prices, but the indu,try is entitled to ask for a price that will cover the cost of production. The MinistPr ,]wnld cndeaYour to amend the Bill hy spe~i fi< .lily providing in the case of " rdusal to i'-mo a license to mine that there sha.ll be a final appeal to the Minister. The Bill giws sole authorit:,- in that rE>spect to the Central Coal Board. A provision for llmt apped would make for the bf'tterment of the Bill, and provide against the possi­bility' of applications being turned do>Yn for selfish reasons.

Mr. GLEDSOK: That is alreadv there. The GoYernor in Council must approve of every­thing it does.

:VIr. BHA:"JD : The hon. member for Ipswich may be right, but it would place the

Mr. Brand.]

1470 Cued Producti0n [ASE!El\IBLY.] Regulation Bill.

matter beyond doubt if some specific pro­vision were embodied in the Bill. That would make for peace and harmony. In the past the induBtry in this State has proceeded very '')Ltisfactorily and without any serious dis­turbances betwC'C~n n1iners and owners. The confidence exhibited between the two sec­tions has made for the betterment of the industry. It is no uncummon thing to see the leaders of the miners and the coal 011'11Cr~ 1neeting together to discuss matters of d<:>finitc· policy. That shows a very good spirit, and a continuance of that spirit \\·ill lead not only to the stabilisation of the indLrstry but to its rehabilitation, and, pos­sibly, create avenues for further development.

:VIr. SWAYKE (Jfirani) [12,47 p.m.]: Our ci;-ilisation has re~ched a stage when the necessity for organitmtion and sometimes interference in industry \Yhich has not pre­viously existed has become apparent. \Ve all know what a big factor coal is in our industrial life, On the abilitv to obtain it depend largely our transport" facilities and the development of our factories. \Y c have reached a stage in the industry when it must to a certain degree be regulated and organised. But the Bill now before us gOPti further than the measures dealing \vith the industrif's with which the coalmining industry has been con1pared. For cxarnple, this Bill has been compared \vith the legis­lation applying to the sugar industry, but a correct examiua tion will disclose that in this measure there arc one or two Yerv important departures from the principles embodied in the legislation relating to the sugar industry. I 6Uppose the legislation afl"ccting the sugar industry that most hon. members have in mind is that which htab­lished the Central Sugar c,we Prices Board, but there the voting power has no relation to the extent of the grow' r's activity, all growers haYing equal voting po'.\'Cr. Fur­thcrnlorc, if I a1n not very nluC'h rnistakcn, Yery arbitrary powers are provided for the boards to bo constituted under the legi;lation now before the House that arc !lot iu the sugar industry, legislation to which I have referred.

Before the measure become, la\Y T should likf' the :\Iinister to assure us that this legislation will not be used for the purpose of Yictimi.cation. For example, I notice that althongh proprietary colli,,ries will have repl'Pscntation on the boards, the co-operative undertakings will not.

Th~~ SECRETARY FOB l\li~ES : They corrte in as O\Yner~.

:Mr, SWAY:'i'E: If that is the case. one of n1v doubts has been removed. I have in mrnd t}w CUSP "\Yhere OWnerS thetnselYeS "\York a~ nllnf'r~.

Tll<• f:OECRETAHY FOR rJ('rn:it auJornatically; tU'<: cl rtS 0\YllCrS.

:\-fiXES : ThC>v the;," becorr{o

get . a l'Cg'lS~

;\[r. S\YAYNE: An idea is preYalcnt that bccau,so so1no rnincs arc srnall they will never ~Jcconw big-that they are, as it were, goug~ rng; but eYCll the gauger when he gel:-; on to a good scarn or a good loLlo can al \vays get capital to develop his show into a big ono. rrlwrefore, I :::eo no reason "·hv· thoro should be di~crirnination again6t cOnlparu­tiYcly small rnincs iu any way. but I arn afraid that under the disproportionate vot­ing PO'" or pro.-idecl in the Bill we Ill aY iind the coaln1i11ing industry graduallv cCmccn­trated in the hands of a few owners, The

[Jlr. Brand.

·wide range of voting povYcr frorn one Yote to eleYen votcs contemplated in this measure is an entirely new feature in tbe legislation of Queensland, and I certainly think s!'ch a pro.-ision requires a good deal of consrdera­tion.

Undoubtedly some action is necessary in order that we may retain the coal trade that we ha Ye at present, and if possible extend the ~cor)c of the industry. I have a Yivid rncn1or.y of what the export coal trade meant to thrs countrv. \Yhc•n as a bov I lived in Xeweastle, :\ew South \Vales, cluring the 'scYenties, :\ewcastle Harbour was ne,ul:· always filled "ith o.-erscas shipping. At one time of the veal' it wonld be crowded with tea clippers, ;me of which, the "Thcnnopylae,'" was at the time the fastest ship afloat. They came out to Australia with nrgo, took coal from New­castle to China, where they loaded up with tea, thus tnaking a. round trip Then, at another time of the year, the harbour would he crowdecl v..rith vessels, big An1oric.an ships an1ongst others, and everybody was "\Yorking full time. There was a very lively time on pay night in Newcastle in those days. Then tho time carr1e when direct action was taken bv the miners. and the coal trade was clis­lc';cated. Durir1g the three years I was there the pit ponies were sent up from under­ground on t"\vo orcasions. Frmn that time on "\H' 1uight sav that the coal export trade fell off, and I 'thiuk I am right in saying that uow an export trade at ='lewcastle does not exist, and that this is principally clue to c1 iref't action by the rniners.

Some lwn. members have told us that need Pxists for sorne control over ~1nall 11artics of wen who produce coal co-operatiYely,. and who under this Bill will perhaps he restncted in regard to voting power. Some of the :\[ackay mills are buying coal from these producers, on account of its quality. \Vhat l am afraid of is that nnder the methods which will operate nndcr this Bill these groups of men will be squepzecl ouL At thr' present time they can be de, err bed as gougers.

The SECRETARY FOR !\TINES : There is defi­nite provision in the Bill that if men arc ou coal thev rnnst get a license. The central board cannot refuse a license to lll011 who uro on coal.

:\I r. SV\-A Y:\E : Thr•ir rc>prcscntation would be verv small indeed, ancl they might bo swamprd.v There is another provision in the Bill regarding quotRs, rc~ulating custorncrs, and so on. Son1c colnpanJcs n1ay have built up a considerable c·onlH'dlon, or be on tho road to building up a c~:nl~icler­ahlP connection, and might he clq1r1vc·cl hy thP Bill of the O)>JlOrtunity of workiCJp: <~ \'Pry good scarn. l do 11ot lniO>.Y. \vhet l1ct !hero is an apj1eal hom the cleciswn of a board. ·s·ltich say~) "You rnust not lnly fron1 thitJ t)r that Jnlne."

The SECRETARY FOR l\IIKES: An0- coal scht~me rnust b0 approycd_ b.\~ the GoYcTnor in Council, and before it jc. finalised :tnyunc conccrnccl will be heard.

Mr, S\YAYKE: The points I have raised an' i1nportant. I an1 glad to hear thc :.\hnis. tcr's disavowal. I remember being told by r\IinistPrS in conncdion \Yit~h llreYions rnea­sures that certain things could not happen; but '"'" found that IYhen the matter got into the hands of the la\vvers or eartH' bdorn 1 he T nclustrial Court, the): stated, "\Ye have nothing to clo \Vith wl;at the :\Iinistcr irt

Goal Producticn [15 NoVEMBER.] Regutation Bill. 1471

charge of the Bill said in the House. Hero is the Act which Parliament has passed, and we have to interpret it." That makes n1e rather ,apprehensive in regard to sorne of the poiub I have raised. I trust that when we got into Committee the provisions I havo referred to will receive the fulle't attention. 1 do not think I would be in order in debating particular clauses at this stage, bnt there are some -which will require .arnonchnent. I trast that the Government will ll~tf'n to IYhat \VC have to say in regard to thi~ rncasurP. \Yhich is ~o iruportant and jn 1vhich the interests of the conununity are so wrapped up. ·

I have here a book just issued from the pre~s rut~tlccl "The Econo1nic Rf•sourcc.-: of Australia." h:· H. L. Harris, l\I.A., LI:.B., Se m or Led urcr, rrcachor~' College, aud Lcrtun'r to Tntorlnl Clas.'·CS, Unlversitv of Bydner. On page 92 it is stated- '

" Australia is suffering with other coal. producing· countries frorn the o-eneral deeliw in the demand for coal~ owing to the rlevelopmeut of substitutes. She ~·"' ~uffrring also frorn the expansion of 'tllc' indu'-'trv in c0rtain countries where the laced r~sonrcf·S \Yerc formcrh· unde­vclop0cl. But tlw decline in the ~lcmand for hN coal might not havf' been so t~reat, nor thp deYC'lopnlcnt of her rivals ~o ca::-v, bad h2r o'vn industrv been better 'concluctcd. Prices havP hc'Cil too high and inrlu,tt·ial troubles too frNtnent.''

The impOl'tance of iho principle to which the Dill :tppl ies canuot be summed 11p better tLan in a nara~raph in this book, which ;·cads-

" A n1onz tlte natural rc~onrcPs of t.ho worlcl, coal Jakc, a very high plac''· It sbl1, to a YPry large extent, governs both production ancl transport, ana with­out large snpplies of fairly cheap coal a highly d<'wlopP-d industrial life is scarcely po•siblc. \Yithout it a country is dependent upon another."

The need is slrec.serl that coal should be procurable nt a n')a ... onable rate in order {o rr1a_intain _all that goes tov~ards rnaking a nat.1cna l hfo. In a country like ours, with ~uch grf'at disUtncPs to bo trav~'rsed by our priinar:v produrts to the rnarkct.s .. it is rtecessar0· tlwt noihing shoulcl be done \Yhich will tend to incrc>ase -the cosi. of trans­port. Th0 whole matter is wrapped up in tho qurstion, " B:v how much is jt going to affect the cost of our products?" but the hon. member for l\-furilla.. an ex-:Winist.er for Transport. has very ably dealt with the subject from that point of view. It >vot!ld be a misfortune to everyone if the pro­>·isions of this Bill were going to result in an increased cost to our primar'.~ industries. It is >Yoll known tn at >re have had to submit to a Yery big reduction in prices for our V\'001, wheat. sugar, and other commoditif's and comcqnonl ly it. would be non·oconomic to pass an:-~ legislation 1.·;·hirh 'vill in any \va:;· jncrca~0 the cost Df production to the man on th<> lancl. The report issued by the ·dPpartment presided OH'r bv the Secrotarv for .Agriculture stresses the need for a decreased rost of production in our \Yool. wheat, sugar·, and other industries, and the cost of coal r>nters into tlw cost of produc­tion in all these industries. Seeirw that any rise in the price of coal will aff;;'et our prin1ary industries to a very g-reat extent, I am justifwd in expressing- the hope <bat

nothing will be done which will increase the price of this commodity.

Mr. NI:WMO (Oxle11) [2.5 p.m.]: This morning th<> hon. member ·for Ipswich made specia 1 reference to myself. As far as I am concerned, I am very interested in the coal industry and desire to sne it succeed. Personallv I ihink that the coalmininO' industry Is one of the best avenues for th~ cmployr~1cnt of men that wo can possibly get. Lrke all otlwr industries, coalmining has. been very hardly hit during the present cr1srs and for some voars r1ast }yr,~ cam~ petition of other fuels. '\Ye ha Ye to go back quite a collSiderable time to see the c .mse for the decrease in the coal trade. To my mind the Labour l'arty and the trades uro ions arr> responsible for its condition. For many years it was recognised as a key mclustry and coal mnployers could he told practically just what they had to do. vVe Lad. strikes. The union simply set to work to '• pull the legs" of the miners by telling them that they could get them much better conditions. Any one who has been long associated with the Queensland coal industry knO'*S that the evolution of coalmining g-radually improved t.he conditions of the miners. But for m:tny years the unions have had a retarding effect upon the indus­try. It is well known that in the Ipswich district industrial lm·ies were struck. I rcmembcr that during the strike of coal­rnmers on the Newcastle field mam· levies were imposed and if the miners refused to pay they were threatem'd with all sorts of dire penalties and wc1~e even taken to court. The miners were called upon to pay so mcch out of every pay tm,-ards the " Daily Standard" no~\~. spa per. Sh·jkes 'vere con­tinnall· fomented hv the union. :Ylen 1vould be oalicd out of the mine~ and ma· s meet­ings woulcl bo held. No consideration whatever \Vas given to coal consumers. Any miner who was opposed to the views of the r;trike leaders was not gan1c to open his mouth. or he would be smashed or killed. The miners employed in the Ipswich district simply had to agree to the views of their leaders. I remember that on one occasion ·r miner voiced a protest at {)ne of the mass rrwotings hPlrl on the Bundamba racecourse, :wd although he was threatened with all kinds of dire penalties his views were after­wards found to be correct.

The hon. member for Ipswich this morning commented upon mv remark to the effect that a tribunal har! i'aisArl the price of coaL I said that the price had been increased by 3s. a ton. and that the amount wa,s rliYided hebye0n the collicrv proprietors and the miners. I also pointed out that that r1se in pr-ice cau~wd mnch jndustria1 trouble tbroughout Australia. That rise 'vas given, if I n"mcmb0.r riQ,·htly, hy .Judg-P Eclnmnds, and it was well known thronghont Anstralia that he was told to givo the miners prac· tically \Vhat they re'luired. The Prime Minifi­tcr of the day. the Right Hon. \V. M. I-Tughc~, distinctl:-r stated that the trans11ort services mnst not bo hold up. all(! pointed ollt that they would have to ceu,s0 operations if a sufficient coal supply was not forthcoming. I remember the do "is ion Yerv well. It was rnado in 1916. On ono occa~iOn the wage~ of the coalminers wAre raised from 5ls. per ,•eck--

The PRE3fJEll: l\T r. Speaker, I rise to a point. of order. The hon. member has just stated that Judge Edmunds \Yas told by the

J11t·. Nimmo.]

1472 Coal Pmduction [ASSEMBLY.] Regulation Bill.

Federal Government to do certain things. Jud<rc Edmunds is now dead. and therefore unable to protect himself against "'eh a slanr!cr but tho remark of the hon. member is a reflection upon a distinguished member of the judiciary. It is quite unparliamentary and uncalled fol'.

111'. SPEAKER: The hon. memhor knows that he will not be in order in reflecting upon a member of the judiciary. I hope that he will not persist along those lines.

Mr. J'\TMMO: I do not say that the judge adopted the orders, but it was common kno\\­ledge throughout Austraha--

Mr. SPEAKER: Order!

:VIr. NIMMO: On turning to the ''Official Year Book " for 1917 I find-

" Tho rat0.-; of \Vag"eo:; quoted arc those awarded by the vYitr Precautions Coal Board. The rate:-5 can1e i11to force on the 1st January. 1917. Tho tribunal incrpased tho ex1sting hPwing rate for minors and all customary rates paid to them bv 15 per cont. The existing rates of pav for off-hand labour wNo increased 20 pur cent. The hours of labour for coalniinPrs in the C\nninonwea1th \:yore fixed by the tribunal. as follows :-E1ght hours 'bank to hank. inrlusiYe of one half hour for meal time, on Monday, Tuesday, \Veclnesday, 'rhursday, an~ Fri­dav. and six hours bank to bftnk, mclu­si ,:;, of one half hour for meal time on Saturdav Sundavs and holidays. The customai·y numbe.l· .~f. shifts per fortnight is cloven thP colllcrJOs not vvorkmg on pay Satu'rday~."

The point I am trying to make. is that the miners were deluded by the umon ofhcwls into brlicv-ing that coal consumers could never do without coal that the proce-ss of mcr·eas­ing the price ' should go on indefinitely. To-day every manufacturer and every per­son who prc,-iously used coal as a . furl JS now turning to other fuels. Coal 1s mo:·e economical for power purposes than m!, but the diHiculty is that continuous supplies cannot be guaranteed. For that reasc:n the Minister is making a mistake m brmgmg down this Bill. It is beyond question that it will have a definite tendency to make con­sumers of coal inquire as to the p_ossibilitios of some other fuel or method of dnvmg th8lr plants. That will remit in a further reduc­tion of the present limited output of coal. I can quite understand the colliery proprie­tor.. in their dire straits, agreeing to accept this' Bill. It is but another stop forward in the policy of the. socialisation and Go,-~m­ment control of mdustrv. In a little tnnc the proprietors vv-ill iin"d that this eoutrol i8 vcrv irksome. l::Jndcr the prov1s1ons of this Iiill, th Central Coal Board vv-ill he able to say to a colliery, "\Yhat is yo_ur trade? You will keep on supplying that trade. and vou arc entitled to another in('rcaso in in-ice." _ \Yhat of the quaJity of coal >upplied? Th0; quality may dete­riorate and proYe lll1!"UJt0d for the rcqunc­rnonts of the user. ls he compe!lcd to buy that coal because he was vurchasing it on the 30th June, 1933 'I

This leg-islation will create a monopoly which vv-ill 110t react for the g-ood of the traJo. I suggest, ae an altcrnatlYc, that the :Nlin1~t('r cxvlore cyery avenue to create addi­tional trad<'. That may be douo by the granting of concessions in freight~ and bet­ter facilities to transport the coal to port.

[11Ir. Ximmo.

For instance, a coal crane could be erected at Pin kcnba so that ov-erseas boats could replenish their depleted bunkers in much the sarne rnanncr as n1otor vchlClcs rcplen15h their petrol tanks at street bow:sers. '!.'~at facility might be the means of captunng much of the bunker coal trade that now goes to Sydney. More help :ould be g1nn to the coal industry than wlil be gryen under this Bill.

The hon. member for Ipswich made all sorts of insinuations about myself .. I h_avo no intention of making any ins1nuabons about the hon. member. I prefer to leave insinuations to hirn. llis character is. such that possibly he can make those insinuations; I am not going to follo·"> h1s example.

I am wry vitally interested in the coal trade in the Jpswich d1stnct. I desue to see the industry prosper became I and my people are associated with it.

1 The ho!l.

member for Ipsvv!Ch -declares tnat I sard accidents in coalrnines \Yere less frequent than in any other trade. What I did say was that the coalminirw industry was a healthy industrv and that ~ncn engaged in it liYe a& long as" {,wn engaged in any other i!fd.ustries" Once a rnan bt~comes used to coaln11111ng, he will not accept a position on tho . surface unless trado be slack. He prefers h1s trade of picking coal. That i~ a well-_kno\vn fact, as anvo!JO associated vnth the mdustry for· any lerwth of time will ag-ree. The coal­miner lo~-cs his job, and if he can rnakc r~a­sonablc " tin1e " he does not prefer a JOb ~n the surface. EYery precaution for the health and limb of the minor is now taken in collieries in order to reduce the liability to accidents to a rniuimun1.

The hon. member for Ipswich also stated that Uw l'.loore Government had reduced the price of coal and placed many men on the scrap-heap. That is in keeping w1th ruan,y other statements by him.

:!\Ir. GLEuSON : Is that not correct 1

Mr. :'\I:\LUO: How coulc! the Moore Go·· vernmont possibly reduce the nc:mbcr of miners engaged in the mdustry 'nthout r_e­ducing the output of coal? If he had salC! the Moore Government had reduced the quantity of coal tmrcha'f'd, then I could understand it lmt if the same quantity of coal is mine~l, then the sarne nu_n1bcr) of n1incr;::;; arc required to produce lt. I cr-haps the same amount of prolit \\ not made. His statement in that regard or, aLl-fours with other statements he made_ He is a member of the Queensland Col­lieries Ernployo0s' Unlon1 vvhich is respon~ible fo1· the parlous conc!itwn of the mdustry to-dav. \Vheu the biif coal strik<c- occurred the J£clipso Colliery, i~r the Ipswich, ~list rid, fong-ht tlw umon to a stanc!sbll. I he col· lier\- beat the uniou, although it hnd lwcn recognised as all-powerful. . \Yhen that collicn· refused to accept umon d!l·tatwn. other collieries did not follow suit ancl stand up to it nnd fight it. 1\s a result, the Erlip~(' col]ic'ry functioned as tt non-lllllOn colJi('l'V. Thr• IHinrrs -were~ hc1ppy .and con­tcntt:'c( and fo1· a long- period Uw coPiery worked full time. It carried on HH'C"S fully utJti] tlw acl.-cnt of Labour to pmYer. The Lahonr GoYCl'llTI1:Gnt then decreed ccrta1n aclion ·with rcsn0ct to cottl rniuecl by rnen who rcfUE:.£'d to becmnc unioni:-h. Thf~ n1incr::; J'C'fn:"ed to bPron1c unionists. Lnt the­.. powrr~ that bo " on that occasi~n, wi~h J.n bour in power. told them that if they die! not join the unions the coal would not be-

Coal Production [15 NOVEMBER.] Regulation Bill. 1473.

hauled over the railways, and that there would be a strike on the railways if non­union coal was hauled. The result was that these men became members of the union and the colliery lost its trade. I point that out to show that without union control the mines functioned properly, and the miners made more money because there was not that "racket" whereby union fees and levies were extorted from them. I say quite defi11itely that if the unions had not been so insistent but had worked for better, not impossible, conditions, more people would be employed in the coalmining industry to-day. Jll[any people in the Brisbane area witl1 small engines and plants were con­sumers of coal, but force of circumstances compelled them to utilise electricity; and although it is true that electric power is derived from coal, there is also the fact that considerably more coal was used by these plants, bcfnre electric power was utilised. More encouragement should have been given to the small users of coal to continue using that commodity.

Mr. VvATERS : ·what form of encourage­ment would you suggest?

Mr. NIMMO : In the Brisbane district I would suggest a lower freight for the small mer of coal.

Mr. W. T. KING: You are generalising too much.

Mr. NIMMO: Then I am following the example of the hon. member, who is the greatest " generalisator " in this House. (Laughter.)

The hon. member for Normanby said that this Bill would be the mGans of putting 3,000 men back into industry.

Mr. GLEDSON: He didn't say anything of the kind.

Mr. NIMMO : That is what I understood the hon. member to say, and if I thought for a moment that 3,000 additional men would be employed, I would vote for the Bill with both hands. (Laughter.) I have, however, yet to be shown that one extra man will bB employed as a result of this measure, the idea of which is to prevent certain people from coming into the indus­try, so that if a man strikes a valuable coal seam he will not be permitted to work it, to the detriment of the present consumers of coitl who will have to pay a higher price for the product. That is the object of the Bill.

Mr. W. T. Kn;a: Do you support it? Mr. GLEDSON: He hasn't made up his

mind yet.

Mr. SPEAKER: Order!

Mr. !'i"IMMO: If the hon. member can show m,e that more men will be employed as a result of this legislation, I will cer­te.inly support the Bill. The fact of the matter is that the price of coal will be increased.

Mr. FOLEY: Who said that?

Mr. NIMMO: It has already occurred. Mr. FOLEY: Where?

Mr. NI:YIMO: Ono of the largest manufac­emJCr·rns in Quocndand has had the

of coal increased by ls. per ton. 21;[ r. \V A TEllS : Produce the name.

The Queensland \Vcol!en Company.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: You have an interest in that?

Mr. NIMMO : Yes. The fact that this. legislation is foreshadowed has definitely raised the price.

The hon. member for Normanby stated that any consumer can appeal to the Commis­sioner of Prices to regulate the price of coal. How is that going to be done 1 The price of . coal will definitely be raised, but Jf the obJect {)f the Bill 1s to raise the price of coal tn such an extent that work will be provided for 3,000 men on two or three davs in a week ~t a wage equal to a week''s wages, and Jf that wage is to be extorted from the consumers of coal, then the Bill will have a bad effect on Queensland. I am sure th~t the Premier. will not stand for any­thmg of that natura. I take it that some method of check will be exercised on the operations of this 1neasure.

The hon. member the price of coal goes too could bring coal in from anyone ever hear of There is possibly a danger brought in from other States, and we do not want coal broug-ht in from other States­we want to fight against that. Although we are all one Commonwealth, the Labour Party have always been crying about goods from other States coming here, and have tried to stop their importr1tion, but they are trying their very best to get our sugar into the other States.

A GovERN}IE;fT ME2\'l:BER : Didn't you try to stop flour from coming in?

Mr. NJMMO: The Secretary for Agricul­ture is at the present time complaining about Southern flour coming here. If Southern flour is coming here the possibility 1s that coal m a v come in from the Southern States. "

The calorific value of coal determines the question whether the price is too high or too low. We are g·oing- to get nowhere with this Bill. I woulil rather see the Minister give more eucouragetnent to the .:oaln1ining industry along the lines I have indicated. The industrv should be given every encour­agement with regard to labour conditions, E,-ery little restriction placed on the indus­try has tended to retard trade. The large

· which should be erected at Pinkenba be a definite step forward. We should

also reduce the freight to the cities. I know the export freight is low, but it seems absurd that we should carry coal to the port for shipment abroad at that low rate and yet charge three times the amount to local con-

I think a redqction in freight should made immediately and every encourage­

given to small plants operating in the area.

l\IIany other a venues eould be rather than pass a Bill which antagonise would be better eleventh hour, tion. I would to who

1vii.n:it-ter to a

J[] r . .:Yimrno.!

3.474 Goal Production [ASSEMBLY.]

There are one or two provisions in the Bill which should be altered, amongst them the regulation with regard to those mines which have reached the production stage at the passing of the Bill. That provision is very drastic. If any coalowner is now sinking and has not yet reached the stage of production his money should be secured to him and he should be allowed to go on and produce. If we retard the development of good coal seams and say that we are going to mark time, we shall make a mistake. There is no virtue in standing still; if we do not go forward we shall go backward. We should do all we can to encourage the coal industry in Queensland.

Mr. WIEKHOLT (Fassifern) [2.28 p.m.]: \Ve cannot say that the Minister did not give us a full explanation of the Bill in his second reading speech. One could get a clear idea from listening to him of what was intended to be done by it. There appear to me, after listening to the Minister, to be at least two or three bright spots in the Bill. The first is his statement that both the owners and employees have agreed on this measure in a spirit of friendly co-operation. 'That seems to be highly desirable. The next thing that seems to me to be exceedingly satisfactory is that he said there was no intention of giving a direct bonus. Per­sonally, I do not believe in any bonuses, subsidies, or guarantees being given to indus­tries. It is an unsound principle to give Government assistance to any of them in that way.

It seems to me that the Bill is based on much the same principle as the Dairy Pro­ducts Stabilisation Bill, and to some extent the Sug>ar Acquisition Act, or the Motor Spirit Vendors Act. I think that principle is wrong in the coal industry, just as it is wrong in the case of the others, but those who would apply it to one can hardly refuse to apply it to others. If we believe in " orderly " marketing for our butter and other products, we should not grudge that -also to the coal industry. I have always had the same sympathy towards the coal ind~tstry as the hon. member for Murilla has towards the railways in their competition against oil.

I realise, as the Minister says, that there are two safeguards in regard to an unduly high price; one is interstate competitioH and the other the fact that there is a Com­missioner of Prices who will have power to see that no unduly high price is charged. I do not, of course, believe in a Commissioner of Prices or the fixing of prices. The only economic basis of price-fixing is that of the law of supply and demand. It mqy be eonsidered that this is an exploded theory; nevertheless, I still believe in it.

The Bill is evidently designed with the intention of stabilising prices, but let us look at the peculiar position in which we 'find ths wool industry. There is a prodnct that has recovered its position on the world's market, though at one time some of those interested in that industry were advocating subsi-dies or " stabilisation." Had those people had their way, the results would have been disastrous. The wool industry regained its pmition entirely on its own merits and by meeting the markets.

Then we come to the question of the hcenso. That is a direct restriction and there I must differ fl'om the Bill. The Premier in his Budget speech expressed him-

[ Mr. 1'{1:mmo.

self very severely against the advi2ability of doing anything which would restrict pro­duction, especially in a primary producing and debtor State like Queensland. On the point of restricting coalmining in par­ticular, I do not see eye to eye with the Minister. I would never place myself in the position of voting for any policy of restriction at all. I do· not believe, for example, in the assignment of cane lands. Any one who proposes to produce an essen­tially good product should not be restricted in doing so.

There are other matters in the Bill which we can discuss in Committee, but it seems ro me that the Minister in charge of the Bill is asking us to give the Government power in future to set up new boards on a distinctly different basis from that adopted in his Act. I am not quite sure whether an entirely new principle is not contained in the Bill as regards penalties. There appears to be an intention of using fines for breaches of the Act in furtherance of the industry, whereas, in other cases, are not fines paid into consolidated revenue? That seems to be a new principle. To me it is certainly rather unusual. Again, the question arises as to whether we should allow the Governor in Council to take so much power to make regulations. This is a matter which has been raised in a number of other Bills, and we can deal with it in Committee.

Mr. BAYLEY (lVynnum) [2.34 p.m.]: This Bill may be deemed either good or bad, accordingly as one lets his heart or his head decide. I, myself, consider rt bad-bad in principle. The Minister has excused himself hy stating that it is on all-fours with other legislation that has been passed by this House. He mentioned specifically the Dairy Products Stabilisation Bill, but that measure and this are not on all-fours. To my mind that was not a good Bill. We all desire to do anything that v,ill help our industries, for we realise there is scarcely an industry in this er any other country which is not feeling the pinch at the present time. The coalmining industry has felt it for a very long time and one has only to review the figures dealing with the industry from the war time up t-o the present to realise what a change has come over the seene, no matter whether it be in the United States of America (the country in possession of at least one-half of the bituminous coal supply of the world), Great Britain, Australia, or our nearest neighbour, South Africa. I take the fig~es f·or 1913, because that was the year prior to the war. In 1913 the coal exported from Australia was 2,098,000' tons, but last year it fell to 344,000 tons. Let me repeat those figures-2,098,000 tons in 1913 and 344,000 tons in 1932. In 1913 the coal exported was worth £1,122.000, whereas last year it was worth only £341,000. Australia has always enjoyed a very large bunkering trade. In 1913 she sent out in ships' bunkers no less than 1,647,000 tons, but last year only 282,000 tons. They are the Australian figures. What are the figures for Great Britain? In 1913 Great Britain exported 76,000,000 tons of coal and sent out in bunker coal no less than 41,000,000 tons. Last year her exports dr,opped to 21,000.000 tons-from 76.000,000 tons in 1913 to 21.000,000 t.ons in 1932-and the bunker coal ,dropped from 41.000,000 tons in 1913 to 14,000,000 tons in 193~ Now consider South Africa. In 1913 South Africa exporte,d 856,{)00 tonJl of coal

Coal Production [15 NovEMBER.] Regulation Bill.

reason country.

tons of from

tons ! Her bunker tons and last

tons, or a drop of those figures with bunkering trade-­

and 282,000 tons in European

Let me remind hon. members of the figures with regard to our and bunkering trade, for what is true the export and bunkering trade is also true of our local trade. . As the hon. member for Oxley suggests, the minns and the mineowners are largely responsible for the position in whiCh we find ourselves. I do not put all the blame on to the miners, because I know that the mineowners are equally responsible. The mmeowners cared not what wages they had to long as they could pass them

public and it is only now public can no longer foot

owners are prepared to in conference and say

"How about Victoria has no bitu: mmous coal mo anthracite save at vVonthaggi, where .they have some of a verv poor quahty, a quality much poorer than any coal mined in New South Wales· bnt the Victorian Railway Commissioner~ were forced to Wontha"'gi coal because they could not upon th: receipt of New South Wales

'l'he. Yictorian .G?vernment, through the .Electricity Comm1sswn, have spent millions

pounds at Yallourn in erectin"' the power plant in Australia f~r the

of their brown coal deposits. He bold man who would say that

would not have been not been for the strikes

securing supplies of co<tl Wales. Nevertheless, these

cumstanccs were a most potent factor in t~e Victorian Government to

mmo and establish the In that district they have a coaL T.he seams range from

thickness, with an overburden

of 40 to feet. The overburden is cleared. off, and coal is dug out with a steam shovel. order to provide 'uol for domes-tic purposes the authorities have briquetting plant. The brown verised, made into the form sold solely for domestic use. p !ant was erected because of the miners and mineowners Wales.

We have built up a very try in Queensland. vV e are so much in the quality of our location. The Blair Athol coal worked to-day that is tance from the seaboard. material assistance Great Britain also is this respect. In no case deposits situated a greater to 30 miles from the greater portion is much board than that. Here have coal measures and running right nothing of the western measures to operated at a later date.

When we examine the coal trade of Queensland, what do we find? Our of prosperity are marked by stoppages the coal mines of New South Wales. When the men there were on strike, or were locked out by the owners, prosperity came to our industry in Queensland. It is true that we have too many mines in operation in this Btate, just as they have too many mines in operation in New South Wales. Years ago, when something was being done in the House of Representatives, I suggested that one solution lay in the creation of a fund by the mineowners to compensate those men who were operating uneconomic mines, and that their whole attention should be devoted to the development of those mines from which coal could be obtained economicrtllv and cheaply. Nothing was done. When the depression hit the coal industry the various Governments made a move to " repatriate " the coalminers. There are too many

in Australia, just have too many wharf labourers. latter industry is entirely seasonal in character, but both it and the coal trade appear to attract men. Goodness knows what it is that attracts men to work in the bowels of the earth when they can work in God's sun­shine ! As it is we have father following grandfather, and son following father, and working in the industry in the bowels of the earth. Most of them hate to attack any other form of labour.

Many have been the number men working If this measure is passed result? A number of men out of employment. The Minister may say that they are the small proprietors-the men who are working for themselves tively. He also in undoubtedly these men down coal not prevented

bLJt who of

H76 Goal Production

our ,difficulLies !

which tho

r ]fr.

[ASSEMBLY.]

acquuo pa,jrl good

Rsgulation Bill.

Fuoduc.'ion [15 NovmrnEn.] Regulation B1:u. 1477

that the heritage of the people is not wrongly used or dc,trovcd. \Yhcn \\·e find that the los~ciling con~u-u1ption is bringing into bei11g a greator nu1nber of produccr.s~a greater ntunbcr nf rninc~--is. it not logical to a-~u111e that -..vc are le,:;cning the arnonnt that each ·Of thc:Jo producer:-) can get'( YYhat i.3 tbe l'Csult? \Vo are bringing about a cut-thro~lt cornpetition 1vllich does not rocognj:-·e un:v ]an- of the ccono;11ic co:'t of ptodnct1oJl. I have said from the ohrl. that there is a law by \YlJich a ntan shoulcl be recolupcn:-;od for his capitai and another for hl~ labour; neither will ·-ta.y long in au indus;_r: if that i:s not clmJP. If \VC' i rv to carry on the inUns­trics of tl1e Statf' "ith ill-equlppPd collieries und without tho ('XpPricnce of rncn with capi­tal to g-uide ns; if HH'll do not }JUt rnoney into tl1o indu,try, how otm!l we end

'l~hi.3 ]~ill doe.J not bri::,~ nLo.ut ~tny co­ercton ot tlu: con. uUH'T. l !le prH..o n regu­lated in each district. lt is an attcn1pt to organise the indu::;Lry only. I t tnnot under­stand \\ Ly lJlCll can offel' uch oppo~ilioll to this indu~tr,r, and lwil ·with de[jght eyery ruced of a~:.;i:--tance t h:.1t is offcl'(~(1 to otln•r iudu::;Ll'if'.3o The hon. rncr11h~1· f(Jl' \Vvununt took liS to South Africa, blit fmgol; ·to tcl! tlw flu use that eYcn to hold the tt·n do in South ~\frica it co,;ts tho from 6s. to s,. a ion. \Yo are not lwn. rnc1nber.3 to do that. ,~Jl v>r> warn: to do js to try t,) Ol'g'ani~o our own iJiit:rnal trade ~o that at k:n;t keep the i11du~h·y on all

QYen The holl. nH'rllb l' for Oxlcy quoted a ea..;o to show the t:\-jl of the JHT"if'J;i Bill-IYhi\'h j13 11ot 1a.w vet-and ~tu,ted that Jw had · dfcct inas.

'" lmd been the indus-try hP controlled to shilling· a ton t l1c of that he had it has Lo0D HP for;.sot to tell the Hou3C that under Bill J:c \Yotdd haYe a right of appeal, because }le "\YOuld, at least, Le aUl(• io go fin•t to the CouuHi:':-;loncr of Priu' and afterV\'Urds to nH~ or t!H• ExccutiYc Conned. -

Th: :~dual fn.cb -,-rill sho< a cnrnpletc \·oltl~ face on this particular question by the hon. YJJClllbl'r for Oxle:;·. Thn-H~ years ago the indu!'tn.T with -,yhic:h tht:- hon. rnonber .is COllHC'cicd \\-as supplictl at £1 3~. per ton. Reductions in tl1o 1vagcs of thC' Il1i1H'l':3 oe other , cononr1c fore{~:' <-Olllpcl!cd a _:<educ­tiou in the price of coal until he rC'ceivod it for 16~. per ton. That v, ·s not a proiit­.ablc price to the llJen cEtrrying on the coal i11du!-'rrv. Thcv could not, carrv cm their O\Vn

inclusi r\· and" sell their c:ommoditv to · ;ndn;-;tr\' at, a lo~:->. and tJ1!:_ fcforo

·the priel~ tu 17"·. PL'r ion. n• thcru, at ll'ast, a .~.:(~niblarJC'O cf EY\._~u at tl1at fu~ure the iJ~~~1nstr by the hon. gPnt'Icmun is cnjoy~ng

'11tagc of a drop of t a ton fr01n v, hich orwmtccl three years ago.

ih<It up as au argnlnC'Ilt agaillst the l r!n~1ro to quote '''llat the hou. IllUlllbf>r

ha;) :-;1 lliui~clf, ac; rC'poried in the ".Aust Pa·.:tnraljsh;, Grn:ting Fnnners. Jtnd Selectors' Gazette " of lOth l1'cbruary, 1931-

"'Twc U:;s\TIC,FKTORY Coxmnox oF THE Co.\L IKDc8TBY.

'' ~Ir. TllO,". -:\lnnno, );l,T...A. for ho i~ a ~irong- afh-o: ate for dlc

trcairncnt cf -QnePn:-..land coal extraction of oil and otl1e1~ pro,lJ,,·b. nr1d who ha' large interest; in the Ipswich

rli'ltrict. Jll the course of a. speech ln the Legislative Assembh, on 30th J nly last, thus rderrut to the po, it ion of tho Jpo\Yich coa!fic!cl :-

.: ' rl'he dPVCloplllCllt of Ollr C'C l~ tl·ad_e ::s another rnattcr \YlJich n1u.':'t SPriou~]v tackled. The figure:-> I ha-,-e ~ho\\' that £38,00J \\·orth of coal '"'" cxport.•cl h·orn Qnccnslnud la:-t yPar. I do uot think that anv hon. lllClllbcr feels l'lc.ud of tlwt IigurZ!. 1 fPcl ~ure t.lwt, ."'mnu­thing is , 'tong. The quantit~· of {·arg,::_, coal export{2cl frorn the \Yc:·t ::\IorcLOH district iu 1913 alllountcd to 75)475 ton· .. arH:l in 1921 tlJi:" !iL lUG Lad gTo''-'ll to 123.000 tons. but it dropp','d in l'J22 i c 9.000 tor•s, while in 1927 it dropped a!'ain, 13 ton;:; only ::-hippcd from E1·i"~ banc. !n 19?0 <(ll2ntily jurnpf'd up again to 99,S53 tOn". but thclt wa~ ruainly dno to the fact of and Maitlancl coalmincrs n1islcd bv their soci listic \Yas parf, of tlw sacrif'Jce they rnadc foi!m,· those leaders. Tl1o proc!Lrcl;on of conl in 1S·2J r1nHmlltC'd to SJ.863 tons."

"3.Ir. :\imn1o thC'n nJ'gt'd lh,~ nppoint-ruelli of the Co:ll 11oarJ as a royal to inquire into-

(u) of tlte climinishc·d dc-coa l aPd }Joss.iblc a..-cuuc-:;:;

of the use of coal ::s a fwol. (I;) The can-e of the decline 111

b·.1nkP;· nud carg·o coal shipment..;: suggestions for 1·cgaining smne of the lost trade.

(c) Inqulrics into the cau~c aiHl eiiect of intcrmiltel't ,,-ork; into the pre­Yai11ng excc..:~ of ruiJF''~ and rniner · · and into unt~Innlo 111cnt. with sug~,·e~­tiorH for rt'lll~ccl,\, lng thi;j st:1tc~ of affair.s.

(rl) Consid('n1tion of lll<'flSlll'(';;: for in­crc•u,f'1nrr thp output of conl-j.c., whdhc~~ Jhi~ ~can bn achiC'Y0d b lo~-,·­tclnperah!l'f' cnrboni:..:ation. hyc1r0gerw.­tion, briquetting, etc.

(f) Consjdcr:;"tion uf rncasnres fur ensu~·iug f'iabllit:y of prices: output, ancl earn1ngs.

1/) Comirlcration of thn form oi' organisntion l1c~t ca]c!l1nb.•d to dfc·ct a n-·~lnction in the co~t of coal production anrl distribution.

c1rr.;· out­lva:o; till' and

to 1t Ill

B!-icflv. thoso '"·o the principks of the Bill, b1;t tho hem. nwmlJcr \HIS asked for a. for tho impro,-oment of th" industrv stat~d that a. higg-=:.r crane' choulcl ·he l'rcctcd at PinkonLa. Ill 191!\, T·.'hcn tlH~ crane nt PinkPnha \vas not a'i dtic-ient as t 1tc Oi!0 thcrP lo-da Y. ,., c \VCTc able h1 Pend a\Yn \' Z59.299 ton-. ~f htt!lk"l' coal nnd 52,715 tc)n..:: of caJ'["O coal as conl)J[I_l'Pd

1Yiih 31,152 tons of bunkPr coal ckspatched in 1932 and no coal. He made the brilliant H1at n l1iggrr CT<InC' should be crceted, probably so that there \Yonlcl be hro crane:, nnd t.hut the o:1~ thcr0 now wonld not fool lonclv when no co;d \Vas bcin~ handled. ·

ThC' lwn. :nl(:>rnbor for l\1irani asked ailout, permits to mine for coal, a]](] inquired if

lion. J. 8topforcl.]

1478 Coal Production Regulation Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Nerang River Bridge Bill.

the right of appeal were allowed in connec­tion with these matters. I believe that there is a right of appeal, or at least I feel that there should be. I intend to look into the matter. Ho quoted one case which has contributed largely to the need for the mea­sure to-day. The State coal mine at the Styx River had been developed with public money, but when the hon. member for J\Iurilla as Minister for Transport, and the hon. member for Fitzroy as Home Secre­tary, were working together, they con­ceived the brilliant idea of letting out the Styx coal mine on tribute. Of course, cer­tain interests with which at least thA then Home Sccretarv was associated were to act a~ con1n1ission "agents to collect corrunis,'!i.on on m-cry ton of coal sold, even to the Hail·way Deparinlent.

::Vh. BRA:<iD: \Yho "as that?

Tlw SECRETARY FOH ::VIIJ'\ES: The hon. member for Fitzrov. Certain men who were working in the Styx coal mine had ta,ken up a coalmining !case-I do not know why~ancl on Saturday afternoons 1111d Sun­clays and during other spare timo they developed the mine, which c~mo into com­uctition with the State coal mine in which they »ere working. They were mrn,bcrs of the Queensland Collicey Emp1oyees' Union, hut when the tribute was arranged theY decided to tender for the S1 vx coal mine on tribute. Immediately. they tendered their membership in the union ceased. On the very first da,y that I met tho ex-Secretary for :Mines, just prior to my taking over the department, he told me in his office in the Department of Mines that I should clean up the Styx trouble as quickly as possible. He expressed the belief that what had been done was \Hong, that he had opposed it, but he had been oYcn·ulcd. 'l'he State coal mine had been closed, and no one \Vas working there. I reopened the mine, and as the men referred to were not financial members of the union they were not eligible to ·return to work in the mine. They had been work­ing there, but they had no eapital. They had adopted a policy that militated against the best interests of the State. l\Iuch has been said about the capital that is invested in coal mine·', but would any sane, sensible individual invest in one of the verv best coal mines to-day. What encouragenl.ent is g! ven . to the genuine coalowner to develop h1s mme to meet the requirements of future years if men are allowed to Bngage in the coalmining industry merely as a passing phase,. destroying an asset and closing down operatwns? The hon. member for JI.Iurilla proved one thing at least to me. He proved that what he did not learn about coalmin­ing and about the administration of the Railw.a~ Department during his three years as Mmistcr would fill a library. He road into the measure things that arc not there. Ho refened to the assistance extended by the Government to the Mount Morgan Gold ::Vlining· Company, and he stated that in i11trod ucing this measure to keep the coal mmos open we wero proceeding along lines similar to those adopted by the Government to keep Mount Morgan going. He inferred that the Rail way Department ha cl extended ooncessional freight rates to the Mount Morgan Gold Yiining· Company so that the mine could be continued, and then he blandly suggested that these things should

[Ilon. J. Stopford.

be paid for by the Premier's depa·rtment, As a matter of fact, the Hailwuy Depart­ment gave no concession to the Mount ::\forgan Gold Mining Compa,ny. It merely acted as a collecting department for the Premier's department. Every penny that was paid by way of subsidy or as a rebate on railway freights wa,s returned by the Premier's department to the Ra,ilway Department. I recognise that all this trouble in Queensland to-day was brought about by the hon. member for Murilla while he was Minister for Transport. Ho took up the attitude that he should IY-.<rchase supplies of coal for the railways in the cheapest market. That may be logical. When ho held up an inducement for colliery proprietors to tender, knowing that those persons have coal to sell, he conld got it at his price. That is what has been described in business as burglary.

There are two precautions against any possible effect of the Bill to which the main objections of hon. members oppositE> have been raised. One is that the Commis­sioner of P·rices will not fix the price, but will inquire into it, and also into any com­plamt against it, and give judgment .. Then if he considers that the price has been wrongly arrived at beforo the scheme becomes effective the Governor in Council has power to veto the price if it is deemed necessary.

The hon. member for Murilla said that if he were in oflice he would bring coal in from New South \Vales, inferring that this Bill will not permit that to be done. There is nothing to prevent the Commis"ioner for Railways from bringing his coal supplies from New South Wales. The Federal Con­stitution will not allow this Government to place in thi;; measure an embargo on the importation of coal from another State, but no Government >rould permit the Commis­si~ncr for Railways to do the unpatriotic thmg unless it could be proved that the power conferred by this measure-and the power \Ve giYc "\Ve can take awaY-\Yas beine: \Yrongly used. • "

~o logical argument has been used why this measure should not be passed. I hope I': the Committee stagc~if any weakness is chsclused m 1t-to make an endeavour to strengthen it as much as I can. I have taken '"-cry precaution to see that the interests of the consumEr, the public, and Government are protected.

Question-" That the Bill be now read a second time" (ifir. Stopford's nwtion)~put and passed.

Consideration of the Bill in Committee nmdc an Order of the Day for to-morrow.

XERAXG RIVER BRIDGE BILL.

INITIATIO~ IN CmnnTTEE. (11ir. liamson, Buranda, in the choir.)

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS (Hon. H. A. Bruce, l'he Tableland) [3.16 p.m.]: I move-

" That it is desirable that a Bill be introcluced to provide against any requirement to keep in operation the bascule span on the bridge (erected pur­suant to 'The ::\'erang River Bridge and Southport-Burleigh Road Act of 1923 ')

Nerang River Bridge Bill. [15 NovEMBER.l Nerang River Bridge Bill. 14'/U

uver the Nerang River on the main South Coast Road ; and for other purposes."

Mr. l'LU:'i'KETT (Albcrt) [3.17 p.m.j: I :am very pleased that the Minister has seen fit to bring- down this Bill. which will make -very ncccs;,ary provision in connection with the Nerang Hin•r Bridge. This bridge has been built for some years, but at the time of its construction it was never thought that jt would ~o soon h~ nccessarv to n1ake this further provision for the t;·affic that has <levelop.cd in that area. This bridge is situ­ated on tho interstate highvi'ay, and that traffic ha:;;; a-:surned greater proportions, corwcially with the development of mot,m· tran-;port, than was eYer anticipated. The ba.-:eule span has been an irnpediment to teaffic to some extent, and it is pleasing that the 1\Iinister is rr1aking provision to oycrcorne tlre difficulty. When I tell the Committee that t1eretofore traffic has been held up for th" length of a mile on each side of the hridgc became of its unsatisfactory width, the Com­mittee will realise that the proposed work will be of considerable b'mefit not only to the municipality concerned but also to the travelling public. It will he the means of relieving the traffic congestion which has been cvid('nt, especially at holiday tinw, during tho last fh-e or six years. I understand that at no ycrv great expense proYision has been made whercbv vehicles can pass each other 0n this bridge, That is desirable, because the narrow width of the bridge made it frequPntJv nece.3sary for 1notor 'buses. \vhich with the increase of tourist traffic had become a feat>nc of the traffic on the road. to hack ,off the bridge in order to malw , way for vehicles coming in the opposite diredion. It is plca~ing, therr,forc, that lll'OYision is now being rnade for ·Lhc rorno,_ al of this bascule span, ,.,hich \\-ill permit of the widening of the bridge and give adequate facilitie, to peclc-triun and vehicular tr.·,ffic. \s one who has been int0.rviewing the 1\Iini:-;tor on sc..-cral occasiotH on thls matter, I am delighted to think tktt at long last something definite is being done for the con nmience of all con­cerned.

Mr. IFlBERTS (Nu.ll J'nol!'onm.IJ!l) [3.20 p.m.]: r desire to express my thanks to the hon. membm· for Albcrt for giying an explanation of this measure to the Com­mitt•·e. I was rather afmir! that no eurh l~xplanation would he giYcn, hocause ihc ~~linistor did not, profrer any deta-;l~. I-Iaving passed OYCl' the bridge in question, I know something of the rliHicultie,>, and I can enclor>c the remarks of the hon. member for Albert in whose electorate it is _,itua.ted. The work tl1at i" 1101\' to be done \Yill rmnoYe tho cause for criticism that has been levelled at it for 'onw J-inw. I merely rose to thank the hon. mcrnbc'r for ol)\-iatinp: tho ncce'•3it:v for rne to prc·-.. :1 the ~1inister for sorne explana­tic:m.

Mr. ;\IOORE (Anbi!fn1J) [3.21 p.m.]: I understand that the :Yiinister did not give any ex]1lanation of the exact conditions under which the alteration is to be made to the Nerang River Bridge. \Vc all know that the bascule span has been an impediment to traf!ic and that the Southport municipality has had to appoint ofliccrs to control the traffic passing over that bridge in order to prevent accidents that would otherwi~e have occurred. Before the Bill goes through the J\1inictcr may he able to enlighten us on a few points. I noti cc a press announcerncnt that arrangements arc being made for the

unloading at some other c01wonient placo without the operation of the bascule span of the boat that formerly passed under this bridge in the course of delivering goods to boats anchorEd in the vicinitv. The Minis­ter might also mention in what proportions the cost of the work will be borne. Will the cost be borne on the same basis as previously'? Everybody recognise' the inconvenience w hi eh has been caused and which has been unavoid­able under the present condition of the bridge-it is wide at each end and has a nar­;·ow span in the middle. The points I hanl mentioned arc the only two that crop up with regard to the alteration of the bridge, and I as,sume that the .Ylinister has full infor­mation on them. If the conditions are satisfac­tory and have been agreed to, the Opposition will of course have nothing but commenda­tion' for the alteration, bEcause \VC recognise that it is going to be a benefit to the travel­lmg public and will saYe a considerable amount of inconvenience to traffic, which is unavoidable at the present time. The .Ylinis­ter would assist the Committee ver"· much by giving the inforn1ation desired. I h.ayo no objection to the Bill, but I am a slung for these narticulars before agreeing to its intra~ duction.

The SECRETAHY FOH PuBLIC \VOl~KS (llon. II. A. Bruce, The Tableland) [3.26 p.m.]: In reply to the Leader of the Oppo­sition let me sav that the cost of the altera­tion to the hridge \vill be borne by the Main Roads Com111is'-)ion. Tho Comrnissioncr of :\1ain Roads has taken o.-er the bridge from the shires, but not the liability for it, !mt we will undertake the cost of the altera.bon to ihc bridge.

The onlv difliculv that arose was that a boat went ~nder that bridge. and the rcmm-al of the bascule span would necessitate the alteration of the masts on that boat. An cstin1ate was tnado as to the actual cost of the alteration. 'l'ho Commissioner conferred \Vi th the ship O\nler and can1c to an an1icable arrangement as to \Yhat amount should be paid by the CommisBioner to compensate the ship owner for any cost to which he may be put through the removal of this span.

I think that is all the information desired. \Ve may on the second reading go more fully into the matter on the lines suggested by the hon. member for that cl istrict in reference to the good effect the alteration of the bridge will have.

('uestion-" That Rruce's motion) be passed.

tlw resolutic.n agreed to "-put

rrhe House resumed.

(Jfr. and

The CH.'.IR1I.\K reported that the Committee had come to a resolution.

Resolution agreed to.

FmsT READIKG.

The SECHET~\.HY FOR PUBLIC \VOHKS (Hon. li. A. Brucc, The l'au/Llaml) presented the Bill, ancl moved-

" That the Dill be now read a first tirnc."

Question put and passed.

Second reading of the Rill made an Order of the Day for to-morro\\".

The IIouso adjourned at 3.30 p.m.

Hon. II . . 11. Brnce.]