Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

WEDNESDAY, 25 SEPTEMBER 1912

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Industrial Peace Bill. [25 SEPTEMBER.] Local Authorities, Etc., Bill l2t'l9

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY.

WEDNESDAY, 25 SEPTEMBER, 1912.

The SPEAKER (Hon. W. D. Lockyer) took the chair at o'clock.

Armstrong, half-past 3

PAPERS. The following papers, laid on tho table,

were ordered to be printed. Tenth annual report of the Commis­

sioner of Income Tax. Regulations under the Health Acts, 1900

to 1911.

LOCAL AUTHORITIES ACTS AMEND­MENT BILL.

INITIATION AND FIRST RE.miNG. On the motion of the HOME SECRE­

TARY (Hon. J. G. Appel, Albert), this Bill, introduced in Committee, was read a first time, and the second reading of the Bill was made an Order of the Day for to-morrow. ·

tlon. J. G. Appel,)

1270 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supp\y.

SUPPLY.

FINANCIAL STATEMENT--RESCMPTION OF DEBATE IN COMMITTEE.

(Jfr. J. Stodart, Logan, in the cha:,-.)

Question again stated-That there be granted to Hrs Majesty, for the service of the year 1912-13, the sum of .£300, to defrav the salary of the aide-de-camp to His Excei­lency the Governor.

Mr. WELSBY (J:lerthyr): In the absence of the hon. member for Mount Morgan, I will bnefly put before the Committee my views on the matter under consideration. Various remarks hcwe been made bv mein­bers of the Opposition regarding the "manner in which the Treamrer's balance-sheet is produced ; and it has been stated that pay­ments due in July ought not to be made in June. I hold that the men in the various public offices throughout Queensland are men who know their duty; and I can quite un­derstand the difficulty of the Treasurer in coming forward and making the Statement he has made with regard to the financial transactions for the year. An ordinary business man, whose turnover amounts to thousandP, may have his own ideas of pre­paring a balance-sheet with regard to his own business ; but where you find millions of money going through various depart­mel)ts, it is exceedingly difficult to estimate exactly or nearly the amounts of receipts and expenditure. In the Statement put before us a few days ago by the Treasu~er, we find that the e&timated surplus for 1911-12 was £4,955, whereas the actual surplus was £23,655. In the preparation of his Esti­mates, the Treasurer has to depend on the clerks in the various departments; he could not prepare a balance-sheet without get­ting the figures from them. The question has been brought forward of carrying out works from revenue without resorting to borrowing; and I have heard it argued by Opposition member,o that we should not bol·­row any money whatsoever.

An OPPOSITION ME:IIBER : That is not true.

Mr. WELSBY: If we were to depend on the revenue for carrying on public works, we would not be able to make any progress · at the same time, I believe that our bo'-:_ rowing should be conducted on proper lines, and the money should be spent on repro­ductive works. There is a certain return from our railways, which a~e constructed out of loan money; but the same cannot be said of our public buildings. I have be""n somewhat amused on more than one occa­sion, both inside and outside the House, at hearing the arguments used regarding the action of the Treasurer in connection with the Savings Bank; and I think the Trea­surer spoke well yesterday when he stated that his obiect was to block Mr. Fisher the Federal" P1·ime Minister. His duty i~ to protect every person in Queensland in regard to the money deposited in our Sa v­ings Bank, and I believe that had it not been for the action of the Government i 11

taking the precaution to raise the lim it of intere8t-bearing deposits from £200 to £500, and reducing the amounts that ma:y be deposited to 1s., the action of the Federal Gove~nment might haYe been very detri­mental to Queemlanc.. I must say that I am exceedingly disappointed, because Vlire

[Mr. Welsby.

have been told in regard to railway con­struction-and I may say that disappoint­ment exists on this side, as well as on the other side-at finding a certain number of railway proposals turned down.

Mr. RYAX: Broken promises.

Mr. WELSBY : I do not wish to say any­thing about broken pledges, bu_t wheJ?. the :Minister for Railways last sessiOn, with a smiiing face, passed one proposal _after an­other with regard to certam ra1lw':ys, I thought we were going to do well m the matter of railway constructio_n; b':t now w& find, this session, that cei·tam ra1lway_s ,_ar& turned down, I must say I am disappom;ed. '\Ve know that when raih,ays are promrsed in certain parts of Queensland, people do cei~tain work involYing more or less e_x­penditure; and when we find the rml­ways turned down, a lar.xe amount o~ the money expended is lost. 1 have no rmlway line at New Farm, but I am sorry for other places. In the Financial _Statement, we find that 218 miles of new railway were opened during the year; 1,638 miles were under construction · and nothing was done with regard to 575 miles of railway passed by Parliament. I believe the hon. member for Dalby was quite right in t~e v:ay. he spo_ke with regard to the line in his distriCt. W1th regard to the question of immigration, which for man~· years has been my great hobby, I find that during the last twelve months we received 13 699 people from the old country· and I ~m exceedingly disappointed to find 'that the amount put on the Esti­mates for immigration this year is nothing like what it was last year. The amount last year was £70,000; this year it is O':'lY £30 000. I may say that I would not !Ike to be Treasurer of this State in two or three years' time, when we will have a ':umber of loam falling due. We ~nd that m 1913 we will have loans amountmg to £1,466,500· falling due, and in 19~5 there are loans due for repayment amonntmg to £13,195,300, or a total of £14 661,800. In order to repay this money it '~ill -mean that we will ha V& to borrow more money, and when we have to borrow money to meet the repayment of these loans, how will we stan_d in regard. to borrowing for carrying on reproductiv& works? I would certainly not like to. be Treasurer of this State when that time comes. I would like to see our friends who are now in Opposition in power then. (Op­position laughter.) I would like ~o see the hon. member for Barcoo as Prmmer of the· State then so that we would be able to see how he w~uld get on in times like that.

OPPOSITION MEMBERS interjecting,

The CHAIRMAN : Order.!

Mr. WELSBY: '\Ve know that monf'y must be borrowed for certain purpose:;, and we know that it must be borrowed to repay the loans falling due in a few years'· ti'!'"· Regarding land settlement, we a_re makmg very satisfactory progress accordmg to the Statement. Last vear no less than 6, 730,464 acn-s were selected, and we rec.eived £372,000' in pastoral rents for the year. I am sorry to soe, hotvever, that no provision ]'1. maJde for replacing the Cmwn timbers th':t are taken off ev"rv year. If we ar<' gomg to continue to cut 'clown the timbers on our Crown lands, it will not be- long before we shall not have any timber left. For years past, when timber was fairly cheap, there was

Supply. (25 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 1271

not so much of it cut, but it is being_ ~mt down at a great rate now, and no proviSIOn is being made to replant it. If we do not do something to conserve, or preserve, or re­serve our timber for the State, we shall soon be in very sore straits so far •as our timber supply is concerned. I believe in carrying on a system of replanting as fast as the timber is cut down. If we allow all our timber areas to be denuded, then the time will come when we shall .have a lot o.f trouble on our shoulders. I do not know what the Govern1nent are doing in the matter of con­servation of timber and planting of trees but I understand that many trees, such a~ iron bark and olh< rs, take thirtv vear, be­fore they come to maturity, which ~bows the nece·.Jsity of doing something in the matter straight away. The Government would be wise if the:· took strong measures to set .about trCBplanting, .and continued it for thirty or forty years to come. I notice bv the figures supplied with the Statement tha't mining is falling off in Queensland. I am sorry for that, as we know that in years past the mining industry was .a good st.and-by to the State. \Ye know that monev has been borrowed from time to time froi11 the Government and spent in cBrtain placBs in developmBntal work, but therB are a lot of places in Queensland where monev could be w<.l!I spent in opening up mining flD!ds. We could even go ouhide Charters TowBrs and Gympie in epending monBy for dt.velop­mBntal work. I consider that thBre is no plaCB that requir<<•. the spending of money on it more than Cl?ncurry does. (Hear, h<·<tr !) I have Leen m correspondence with firms who have business in thB Cloncurrv dis­trict: I have spok<m to gBologists and other, and they consider that it would pay the Go: vernment to spend rnone:r in the Cloncurry district. There is a large quantity of copper ore there, and we should be abl~ to take it a><ay as cheaply as they do in America. I hope tho Government will SOB their way to do what thBy can for the ·advancement of mining generally in Que<:>n,land. We might do something in connection with the Palmer fiek!. \V e know that Charters To11 ers has gone back .and there are very few mines there that arB paying dividends, and the same applies to Gympic. If thB Government could find money to open fresh fields and gD in for further rnining development thev ·would M doing a -wise thing for the StatO. I would like to say a word or two in praise of the increase of shipping into Queensland. There is no doubt that we h:we gone ahBad rapidl:v so far as shipping is concerned. One day last WBBk I saw no kss than five yesselR in the Town Reach .and th01· ·were all vcsoe;-; of 7,000 or 8,000 tons. In- making the cut­ting from Mud Island into the Brisban<' River good work was donB for the State, and even if it eosts £90,{)00, it is money well spent. ·we all know the damage that was done by thn 1893 floo-d, but it will not be so serious as that ag·ain owing to the work that has been done in the rivm· by the comtruc­tion of cuttings and training walls. \V <' know that thB Harbours and RivBrs Depart­ment have spent something likB £200,000 in making one direct cutting right through to Mud Island, and with the aid of the train­ing walls at the Hamilton it will carry off all the flood watH·s that arc likely to com<e; into the. river again. I r-ead -with pleasure the report made by Mr. CullBn last year on our river improvl?ments. I h:;.ve the grc8lt :.:t respBct for Mr. Cul!Bn's opinion, and I do hope that the money will be found to carry

out the work he suggests should be done down at the Hamilton. If that is donB, then it will stand for sixty y<•ars. afte17 Mr. CullBn is gone aloft. I do not believe m dry docks being made on the high ground ,at all. I consider that they should be made on the lower flah, and if we con.structed the';' on the lower flats down the nver we wou"d be able to put in thB largest vessels there, and WB would be able to induce larger steamers to come up to the wharVf'' ~o tak~ away O';'r produce. I see that there IS an mcrease m the DepartmBnt of Public Instruction of £51.413, and there is also a big increase pro­vided in the salaries of members of the Police Force. I am a believer in a goo-d­paid PolicD Force, and I am .als? a believBr in paying ""ll for our Educatwn Depart­ment. ThBrc were big increases grantc:d ~or the police, and there should al~o be brg m­CI'Cases for t1re pupil and classified teachers in thB Education Department. (Hear, hear !) I have had some experience on ,,chool com­mittBes and I well remember what ·a source of ann~vance the one-fifth contribution was. School committf'eS had to find one-fifth of the cost of wooden buildings and one-sixth of the c<'st of brick buildings. In the countrv dj'3tricts it \Vas generall:} the poorer classes~ who vvanted to have primary schools er<'cte·d v. ho had to find this onB-fifth cost, and I am glad to sBe that it has been ·done away with, and that thB Government are now finding thn whole of the money. After all it ,, as not .a verv Iaro-e amount that was rais<'d from thB parents, ~ho contrihutc.d the one-fifth: in £act, it was not as large as the amount of money that was spent in connec­tion with the strike in January and Febru­ary last. On looking through the StatemBnt, I sen. that there is some reference to the prickly-pear question. I traveliBd th1'ough the w·,,to-n districts, 11articub.rly •bout St. Gt·org<>, and I was surprised to fi_nd to what extent the prickly pear w",; growmg. I con­sidered then that it would have be·en a g·ood thing if th<> Government gavB that co':'n~ry for nothing to people who would be w1llmg to settle on it.

A GovLRK)IEKT MEMBER: They won't take it.

:Yir. WELSBY : The money offered by the Government to persons who <·an discove1' som<·· means of getting rid of the prickl_Y pear is money well spBnt. I do not kno:v 1f th<' Minister for Lands has got the nght thino- to dc .. troy the pear, but the man who di~c~vns something that will destroy the p•car will do thousands of pounds worth of o·ood for Queensland. I thmk that the Go­~Brnment have got a Vfll'Y hard fight before them in mote wa,-s than one-. Before ·"' man can draw up .a Statement like this he has o-ot to be behind the .soone,. Anyone can draw up a balance-sheet if he has got the figures before him, but to draw up a ~alance­sheet like this, one needs to be behmd tl_Ie see-m's. I hope that the Government ~>nil take the advice given to thBm by the Ron. R. Philp and the hon. member for Mur· rumba Mr. Forsvth, and go slow, .and go much ~low<>r than they have been going in the last two or thre" vears.

Mr. J\IL'RPHY: Is th;t why ycu complained abm:..t the Government closing down smne of the railways? (LaughtN.)

Mr. \YELSBY : There is more behind this Statement than WB know, and I can see clearly and distinctly that before long we are in for a bad time. I may be wrong. I

111 r. Welsby.]

1272 Supply. (ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

hope that wh,on we get to the close of this snsion in Kovember or DCCBmber that the Government, in the quietne2,; of their de­partments, will be able to go into matters and carr:y out a!l the .things they wish to do as mentwned Ill this Statement. But I have my doubts about it.

The TREASURER: Then why do you talk about closing down the railways?

Mr. WELSBY: I understand that the rail­ways were closed down because the Govern­ment did not have suffici<mt men to carry them on. We must carry on the business of the Government in the same wav that a man carries on his private business. We ha 'Ce to look at our finances first and sea how far we can go. This Statement was pr~-pare-d by the Treasurer himself.

0PPOSITIOX MEl\IBERS : Question !

Mr. WELSBY: Well, of course he has his employees behind him. He could not do all the work himself. I do not think, how­ever, that the Treasurer will be able to carry out everything exactly as he wishes in this Statement. I hope 'that he will be ~ble to do so, but I have my doubts about It.

Mr. LARCOMBE (Keppel): I am pleased to know from the Financial Statement that Queensland. is enjoying that prosperity which has characterised this State for some years past. I am sorry, however, that there is not a wider diffusion of that prosperity and a more equitable distribution of wealth as ~t ~vere. Kotwithstanding that we are' en­Joymg· an unprecedented period of pros­perity, we find that the workers of the State are engaged just as much as ever in their endeavours to maintain a fair and reasonable standard• of living owing to the alarming and appalling increase of the cost of living. Notwithstanding that nature is •o prolific that there is an abundance of food supplics, paradoxical as it may seern it is beooming scarcer and scarcer to th~ worker, and we find that instead of him en­joy~ng a f.air !!art of ti:is commercial pros­perrty he Is bemg penalised, and is actually worse off instead of better. Judgin<r by the answer which the Chief Secretary "gave to the hon. member for Rockhampton in re­sponse to inquiry on this very important sub~ect a few weeks ag~, it d.oes not appear as If the Government mtend to deal with this important matter. But it is a question which the Government will have to consider in the near future, or it will settle the Government. It appears to me that this is the most reactionary Government in Aus­tralia. They are imposing all possible dis­abilities on the worker, and then as a crowning achievement, they pass thi:ough a ~harter of coercion-a measure they are giv-­rng to the workers of Queensland to bring about their emancipation. I would just like to make reference to the cause of this pros­perity. Members on the other side seem to think there has been some heaven-born. financing-that the revenue returns indicate splendid financing on the part of the Trea­surer. I would like to make a comparison. of the State revenues for the vears 1908·09 with the yea1·s 1910-11 for the different States of Australia, to show that these increased rev<:nues are common right throughout Aus­tralia. In Kew South \Vales in 1908-09 the revenue was £13,646,126; in 1910-11 £13.839,139; or an increase of £193;013. I~ Victoria in 1908-09 the revenue was

[Mr. Welsby.

£8,247,684; in 1910-11, £9,204,503; or an in­crease of £956,819. In Queensla;nd. in 1908-Q9 the revenue was £4,769,172; m 1910-11 It was £5,320,008; or an increase of .£550,836. In South Australia in 1908-09 the revenue was £3,591,260; in 1910-11 it was £4,181,472; or an increase of £590 212. In Western Aus­tralia in 1908-09 it was' £3,268,993; in 1910-11 it was £3 850 439 · or an increase of .£581,446. In Tasm~ni~ in' 1908-09 the revenue was £934,405; in 1910-11 it was £970,092; or an increase of £35,687. The total State revenues for Australia in 1908-09 was £34,457,640, and in 1910-11, £37,365,653, or a total ~ncrease of £2,908,013. So you see that that mcr~se is general, and is not confined to one partiCu­lar State. I cannot see that the Treasury returns indicate any sound or healthy financ­ing on the part of the Government; on the contrary, I think they show just the reverse, and that we are getting back to the borro.w, boom, and burst policy of the old fhilp regime. With reference to the rarlw.ay revenue, we arc told that the railways vielded th,e handsome sum of £3,032,929, or ;m increase of £306,041. While I am very pleased to see that exceedingly gratifying state of affairs, I am sorry that I have not heard. any indication from Ministers on the front Treasury bench that there will be an.Y reduction in the freights. If the farmer IS the backbone of the country, as our friends opposite tell us, then, surely, he is entitled to some consideration in this matter.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: He is paying for all your mistakes.

Mr. LARCOMBE : It appears to me that the workers of Queensland, as a ':"!:ole, are paying for the mistakes of the Mimster for Agriculture and his friends. We are told that the Labour party are oppose~ to the best interests of the farmer, but Ill those States where Labour Governments are in power what d.o we find? In New South Wales durin& the Labour Government'8 tenur~ there, they have reduced freights and. fares by over £100,000, and at the .same time increased the wages of the railway hands by the sum of £300,000.

:Mr. TOL)IIE: Yet the farmers won't touch them. .

Mr. LARCOMBE: The farmers will touch them. The farmers are touching them in Kew South \Vales and the farmers will touch them here i:r:{ a few months' time.

0PPOSITIOX lVIE}IBERS : Hear, hear !

:Mr. FoRSYTH: You have as much chance of getting in as of going to the moon.

Mr. LARCOMBE: The hon. member for Murrumba mav be a financier, but he does not know much about this matter. He will find, when the elections come round, that the farmers of Queensland, as well as the electors generally, will rally round ~he Labour party, and again repeat the beatmg that they ga ye the Liberal party at the last election.

Mr. FoRSYTH: You got a set-back in the State elections.

Mr. LARCOMBE : If we examine the fi<rure,,, we find that instead of the Labour p~rty getting a set!back, they actually i~­provec', their position in a much greater ratiO than the Government did, and only for the misrepresentations of members opposite we should have done much better in the country districts. What has transpired during the

Supply. [25 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 1273

currency of this Parliament has been a reve­lation. to the farmers, and they will show that m a tangible way in connection with the Federal elentions. In· connection with the Savings Banks, the Financial Statement says-

" Active steps have been taken, during the last few months, to provide suitable business premise' in the various cities and towns of the State ~nd I have pleasure in informing han: members that 444 offices, branch offices, and. agencies have been successfully established, thus placing within easy reach of our own people a~diti~nal facilities for depositing the1r savmgs m the State Bank. Deposits can be made in amounts as small as Is. and up to £500, without charge for the keeping of accounts, the whole of the deposits being secured upon the consoli­dated revenue of Queensland."

That is very gratifying, but who is respon­•ihle for it? Here is another instance of the value of the Labour party. Did not the han. member for Herbert, as acting leader of this party, last year urge that upon tho Treasurer, and did not the hon. member for Leichhardt also do it? The Treasurer ridiculed it then, but he now comes and puts it forward. It was some­thing like the Industrial Peace Bill-it w~s a novel propo~al-but he is only acting upon the suggestiOn of the late deputy leader of the Opposition. Then there is something else-these 444 offices would not have been opened except for the Commonwealth stimu­lation.

The SE:JRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: Do you not remember that we were carrying it on in the Post Office before?

Mr. LARCOMBE: ing ls. for keeping (Opposition laughter.) Statement says-

Yes, you were charg­the accounts before. Again, the Financial

"When it is remembered that Savings Bank funds made available by the pur­chase of Government securities are wholly expended in and for the benefit of the State, and are used for railway construction, for the purchase of estates for closer settlement, for loans to settlers by the Agric.ultural Bank, and to aid in the erection of homes under the Workers' Dwellings Acts, the people of Queensland should co-operate with the Government and assist them to retain this business, and to resist the encroach­ment of the Commonwealth Govern­ment."

For parochialism, I may say that is fairly strong. An encroachment! vVebster's dic­tionary defines "encroachment" as "un­lawful intrusion." How can anyone fairly say that Commonwealth competition is an unlawful intrusion? The framers of the Constitution, the b~ightest and most mature intellects in Australia, men who defended State rights-what did they do? In their wisdom, they made provision to enable the Commonwealth to enter into the Savings Ba,nks business, and if that is so, then I say it is presumption for any State Govern­ment to come along and designate Common­wealth competitive action in this matter as an encroachment. This paragraph is on a par with a similar paragraph in the Go­vernor's Speech. It appears to me rather strange that members opposite, who are

always extolling the virtues of competition, should come now and commence to squeal because of Commonwealth competition.

Mr. KIRWAN: It is a dose of their own medicine.

Mr. LARCOMBE : According to them, competition is the spice of life.

The TREASURER: I thought you said we believed in combines and monopolies.

Mr. LARCOMBE : I am dealing with what you believe in now-competition as th!' mainspring in production. If you take away competition you take away all incentive to progress. That is what lion. members op­posite are continually telling us; but in this matter competition is something very undesirable. In my opinion, there is no coqsistency or logic in their argument.

The TREASURER: Have you forgotten that they did not want competition, but they wanted to wipe us out?

Mr. LARCOMBE : The Treasurer says that the Commonwealth did not want com­petition-that they wanted to wipe the State Savings Bank out. Let me read the exact terms of the proposal which was submitted by the Commonwealth Government to the State Government. It was submitted in these words-

" The States to become partners with the Commonwealth in the Common­wealth Bank-

(a) by supplying portion of the capi­tal, not exceeding one-half;

(b) by each State becoming respon­sible for the liabilities of the bank in proportion to the capital subscribed by It;

(c) by each State sharing the profits in proportion to capital subscribed by it. " Each State to use the bank as far

as practicable as its banker. " The Commonwealth Bank to ta.ke

over the Savings Bank of each State, whether Government or trustee, as a going concern.

"After the Commonwealth Bank has taken over the business of the State Savings Bank, the State Government to have fi:r:st call on any amount whieh it repays to the Savings Bank in redemp­tions of loans existing when the bank was taken over; also, to have first call on three-quarters of the amount of deposits in the State available for in­vestmel:jt."

The TREASURER: That is just what I said.

Mr. LARCOMBE : How can any member reasonably urge that the Commonwealth Government wanted to wipe the State Sav­ings Bank out; on the contrary, they did not want to enter into competition with the State Governments at all. That is indi­cated by the proof that they are only offer­il:!g 3 per cent. on the deposits. If they wanted to wipe the State Savings Bank out, they could offer a much higher rate of interest than the Stat<:>s.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: They could not pay it.

Mr. LARCOMBE: They could pay it. The Commonwealth Government are in a much better position to pay a higher rate of interest than the State Governments.

JJ[ r. Larcombe.]

1274 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: They cannot pay more than they earn.

Mr. LARCOMBE : They can pay more than they earn just for a short time, if they desire to wipe out the State Savings Banks. (Government laughter.) Let me point out what the Pdme Minister said in discussing this proposal. He puts the argument for this proposal very succinctly. He says-

" "Unfortunately, the States did not weigh the proposal which we submitted to them. In my opinion, the proposal was altogether too broad if you were dealing with it as a practical proposi­tion; so broaa indeed that it gave to the States full control for all time of the Savings Bank money there was at the time. It gave them first call on 75 per cent. of the new money available for investment afterwards, and an equal chance with everybody else for the balance of the money available for in­vestment. Could anything more gener­ous than that have been placed before the Premiers? Y<;Jt it was turned down as though it was an attempt on the part of the Commonwealth Government to aggrandise themselves at the expense of the State enterprises."

I think that deals very fully and effectually with the Treasurer's argument that the Commonwealth Government had any desire to wipe out the State Savings Banks.

The TREASURER : Yes, and proves exactly what I say.

Mr. LARCOMBE: As a matter of fact, notwithshnding every possible induce.ment, the Shte Premiers refuS<'d to enter into a reasonable agreement. Any fair-minded person c:n1 con1e to no other concluo:.:ion than that it was the de,ire of the State Premiers to rc'ist the right of the Commonwealth to even a fair share of this business.

Mr. WHITE: They had no right.

Mr. LARCOMBE: Doe' not the Common­wealth Constitution give them a fair right ?

Mr. \VHITE: No.

Mr. LARCOl!IBE: The hon. member kno,:;.~s as n1uch about the Constitution as he does about the su·il'ar question. (Govern­ment laughter.)

The TREASURER: That is a good deaL That is rath,er a compliment.

Mr. L.\RCO::YIBE: The hon. member, along with other members of this Assembly~ went down to J'l1elbourne with the express purpose of bringing about a reduction in the wages of sugar workers.

::VIr. ·WHITE: Nothing of the kind.

Mr. LARCO::YIBE: \Yhat did the Hon . .J. Cook, deputy· leader of the Liberal party in the Federal Parliament eay? He caid he had no time for that kind of argument, and he said that an industry protected as thQ sugar industry >Vas should be able to pay a fair and reasonable rate of wages.

::\1r. WHITE: What prot<>ction does it get?

Mr. LARCOMBE : I am not going to enter into a passage-at-arm'· with the hon. member for J\1usgrave. In connection \Yitl,._ the Savings Bank business, the Financial_

[M1'. LaYTcombe.

Statement indicates, superficially, that we are enjoying splendid times ~n Queensland; that our Savings Bank busmess has bee?­much better than .in previous years. Why It is better than it has been is only natural, owing to the good conditions we have been enjoying.

The TREASURER : And the good govern·, ment. (Laughter.)

Mr. LARCOMBE: There is not !nuch good government about it. Is it fair or reasonable to go back to a period like 1902, when we were suffering from a severe drought, and compare. it _with ": year of unprecedented pro.<·perity lrke th:s? That is not a fair comparison. The Right Hon. Joseph ChD mberlain some years ago~ when engaged in a tc, riff reform battle, sa1d that a nation's nosition could not be gauged by a comparison with the past, but that . the correct method of arriving at a true Idea of the position was to compare it :vith the different nations of the world. I thmk that is a fair way to gauge, or to attempt to gauge, Queensland's position to-day. If we do so, what do we find? Th<' Savings Bank deposits, per head of population in 1910-11, were as follows:-

Queensland K ew South '\Vales Victoria.

£ 8. d. 10 12 11 13 13 2 13 5 6 18 2 7 14 3 8

South Australia IV estern Australia Tasmania 9 1 9

With . the exception of little Tasmania, Queensland is in the worst position of any of the State~. \Ve arc told that ·under a Labour Government people will not have confidence in the State ; but in \Vestern ~\ustralia and in Nf'w Souu, Wales th~y have Labour Governm·ents, and in those States the Savings Bank deposits. per head of population are greater than m Queens­land, with its anti-Labour GoYernment.. Let ns look at the question from thE' pomt _of view of the increase in the,rate of depos1ts per head of population, and what do '"e find-

New South Wales Victoria Queensland South Australia ·westun Australia Tasmania

1909-10.

£ "· d. 12 g 8 12 1 6 9 14 7

17 2 8 13 2 1 8 11 2

1910-11. £ 8. d. 13 13 2 13 5 6 10 12 11 18 2 7 14 15 8 9 1 9

The increases during those Years ''n?re as follows :-Nm' South \Vales; £1 3s. 6d.; Victoria, £1 4s.; Queensland, 18s. 4d. ; Sou.th Australia, 19c. lld.; IV estern Austral~a, £1 13s. 7d.; and Tasmania, lOs. tel. So that we '''e that here, again, that, with the exception of little Tasmani::t, the increase is lower in Quef'11sland than m any other State, and it will . be not<>d that the increases in the States w1th Labour Govern­ments-New South \Vales and -western Aus­tralia-were big ones. Going on to a further comparison, we will take the. numbers T of depositors per 1,000 of population. In Ne_w South \Vales, in 1910-ll, there \Yerc. 303; m Victoria, 458; in Queensland, 212; I;-t South Anstralia, 528; in 'Western Australia, 358; and in Tasmania, 327. There we have another indication how far the other States

Supply. [25 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 1275

are ahead of Queensland in this respect. The number of depositors in Queensland is much less than in any other State of the Com:nonwealth, not excepting little Tas­mama._ \Vhat do similar figures for the precedmg year show? In 1909-10 the ?Umber of depositors per 1,000 of pop~lation 111 New South . \Vales was 285, and 303 for 1910-11, or an mcrease of 18. For Victoria the figl!r<>s are 439, and 458, or an increase of 19; m Queensland the figures are 199 and 212, or. an increase of only 13; in South -!\ustraha the figures are 508 and 528, or an mcrease of 20; in \V estern Australia the figures are 324 and 358, or an increase of 34 · and in Tasmania the figures are 314 and 327, or an increase of 13. Here again we fincl that for the period named the increase for Queonsia!'d is much l<;ss than in any otlwr State, w1th the exceptwn of Tasmania and little Tasmania equals Queen,;land. i un­hesitatingly assert that thece figums reveal the fact that Que~nsland is not as well governed as the Treasurer and his sup­porter' would attempt to lead us to believe: and by placing before us a Financial State­men! that makes a comparison with a prevwus year,_ and not a comparison with other States m the Commonwealth he is e':'tirely mislt·ading. The figures that I have given prove that beyond "· doubt. I would now like to say a few words on the question of State-aided immigration. In 1910-11 the expenditure was £119 000 in round numbers, and in 1911-12 it was £162,000. Hon. mem­bers opposite are always asking when we condemn ~:; crit~cise their "borro-w·, boon1, and burst pohcy, " where shall we go slow?" I sa:y he;re is. an _opp~rtunity; I say we are spendmg 111 this d1rectwn money that is not satisfactorily invested. We are bring­ing out here thousands of workers-not the agricult_u;:al labourers Queensland requires, but pam,ers, plumbers, and artisans g<'ne­rally. These flock to the towns and enter into competition with the artioans already there.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE : You said a little while back that competition was a good thing.

Mr _LARCOMBE; They bring about a reductiOn of wages 111 many cases and that !s bad eno31gh in times of prosperity. Even In these times of unprecedented prosnerih ~here. are plenty of unemployed, and· what IS gomg to happen in a few Y<':1rs, if >ve suffer from a drought similar to the one of 1902? Then we ,,,-ill find that this surplus of labour will bring about a further reduc­tion in wages, and with it a good deal of m!sery and dis~rc-·•s. That may be a good t~ung for the fncnds of han. mt>mbers oppo­~Ite-for the capitalistic exploiters-but it IS not a good thing for the people of Queensland. This is an opportunity wh~re we could go slow in our borrowino- policy. The Pre':'ier indicated that, althougJ1.he waq only askmg for a small amount this vf'a r yet if the revenue ·warranted it thev \\:oulci probably spend more and I have· mvself Yery little doubt that ~ext year we wil!" fincl that a1~ amount approximating that of last year Will also have been spent on this year. On th<' Addrr- .. s in Reply. I a'temptd to quote an authority, but o1ving to pressure of time I was unable to do so. I want to no>v quote what I was then unable to compl<'te. In the_ Brisbane Courier of the 6th July there IS an account of an interview with

Mr. F. B. Scammell, of the London and American Agency, London. It "reads as follows:-

" UNAIDED I:M}!IGRANTS. '' BEST TYFE FOR QC:EEXSLAND.

"A Tlisitor's Opinion-Selection a Farce.

"Mr. F. B. Scammell, F.R.GS, of the Australian and American Agency, Lon­don, is making a short stay in Queens­land for the purpose of inquiring into the existing conditions of labour and employment. He arrived in Brisbane Y·h~erday by the Shropshire, and the significance of his visit is seen in the f<,ct that Mr. Scammell's firm has been re­spon·.ible for sending out man~· thou­sands of settlero to Australia and Canada. A r<'presentative periodically visits those countriPo to acquire an up­to-date and first-hand knowledge of the interests affected by immigration.

"Aslmd if he had anything to say on the question of State-as,.isted immigration, Mr. Scammell replied: '\Vhile I am in favour of each State doing its utmost to secure a de,irable class of settler, pro­vided sueh are required, it is an open question with me whether or no a large r<:duction in the passage money to be paid by the immigrant is the best plan to go upon. I am a strong believf'r in natural selt>ction, and consider th::.t if the claims of Queensland to be a suitnble · field for settkment arc adequately bid before the British public, a sufficiencc' of men who would buy their own way would be forthcoming.'"

There is a man ,,-ho is directly concerned in the immigration busin<''"'' and who has made a thorough s'ndy of it, and he is sdis­fied that State-aided immigration is not the beet nwans that anv State could adopt to incrt>ase its popuL1ti;:,n. He' urges what the Labour party h&s urg·cd yf'ar in and year out. If you makE' the condition, of life attractiY<>, if you make proper laws, if you make land avo,ilable to the people and oncn up prope1· avenues of -employinent, thu1 people would come here and stop here, and not gravitate towards other States, and that is exactly what they are doing now.

The TREAS'CRER : If they stay here they are very pleased with Qtwensland. You people are neYer c.atisfi.ed unless you ara crying stinking fish.

3.1r. LARC0::\1BE: When I listened to some han. members opposih speaking on the Industrial Peace Bill, I thought the 'tinking fish party sat opposite. They were crying about the sugar industry ~aving . to pay ls. an hour to the workers m tho m­clustry. \Vhat did they cry out a few 3·cars ago? They said then that 22s. 6d. a Wer1k "·as the extreme wage possible in the cane­fields, and what they said then they are saying no\v.

.::vir. BEBBll\'GTON: Can the agricultural in­dustr:· in any part of the world pay what is now demanded?

YJ:r. LARC0::\1BE: \Ve want to make his­tory, and we do not want to go back to the conditions of Siberia.

::.Ur. BEBBINGTO~: Are you sure you do not want to send us to Siberia?

Ylr. LARCOMBE: No one knows bette,;· than the han. member that we do not. \Vith

Mr. Larcombe.]

1276 Supply. [ASSE1V1BLY.] Supply.

regard to the Labour party and inulligration, thE> Federal Labour Government have

realised their responsibilities in [4.30 p.m.] this matter. They have recog-

nised the necessity and im­portance of an increased population for de­fence purposes and for maintaining a white Australia. If Great Britain was at war with Germany, for instance, Australia would be in peril, and the Federal Government recog­nise the necessity there is for a much larger population. Australia is a rich country; we haYe a great measure of political freedom; we have the power to work out our own .social and political emancipation; and tho Federal Government recognise this in their legislation, and are doing what they can to attract a larger population. Canada is fre­quently held up as an example to follow in this respect, but Canada is not getting the increased population she got a few years back, notwithstanding all the booming she has. Let me briefly refer to some of the legislation passed by the Labour Government, ahowing how desirous they are of bringing about a larger population. The Labour party, before they were elected to power, asserted that if Pver they obtained the reins of government they would go in for a corn­prehensive scheme of land reform; and it is remarkable that the Labour Governments of the Commonwealth, of New South Wales, and "'estern Australia, have come up to the expectations of the most optimistic sup-

. porters. The Government here have been squealing about the want of money, but by imposing a land tax similar to that which the :Federal Government imposed, they could have had an extra rewmue of about £60,000 a year. As it is, they are losing that amount owing to their apathy in this matter. The Federal Government !mposed a land tax, and are raising about £1,500,000 a year incident­ally by that tax. I say " incidentally '' advisedly, because that is not the object of the tax; the object of the tax is to break up land monopoly, and it is doing tha.t very efi'ectively. The tax has been respon­sible for cutting up and placing on the mar­ket of Australia about £20,000,000 worth of large estates, and in one year it has done more to make land available than all the closer settlements Acts and resumption laws PV01' passed by State Governments. Land r<>fprm is the bedrock on which we must work to bring about a much larger popula­tioil. The fact that the area under crop for tlw last twelvu months has increased by 2,000,000 acres is another indication that, Labour legislation is dqing something to re­tain population bv improving internal condi­tions. Here is 'another effect of Federal Labour legislation,· and it bears directlv on the- question of population. The <•xcess of

.arriYals OYer departures in Australia in th.e year 1908 was 13,150; in 1909 the number was 28,933 ; and in 1910 the number jumped up to 77,803. In 1906 the population of Aus­tralia was 4,091,485 ;, in 1907 it was 4,161, 722 ; an increase of 70,237. In 1908 the popula­tion was 4,232,278; in 1909 it was 4,323,960 ; an increase of 91,682. In 1910 the population was 4,425,083, being an incret1se of 101,123 for the year. And we find from the latest report issued by Mr. Knibbs, the Federal Statistician, that the population of Australia in 1911 increased by 143,624. a record for any single year in Australia. That is an object lesson for the State Government as to the> best means of bringing about the much large> r population which we all desire. I sa-v that State-aided immigration will not bring about that result, and is not a good in.-

[ .il[ r. Laercombe.

yestment. But the real object of members opposite is, not to bring about an increased population for the purpose of. defencP a~d for the preservation. of a wh1te Austral~a policy; it is to intensify the.la~our marke~ m order to provide the cap1tahshc explo1ter with surplus labour. That IS ~hy they ~re so bitterly and virulently attackmg th~ act10_n of the FederaJ Labour· Government 111 then desire to attract population and. to !?reserve the natural increase of populatwr: Ill Aus­tralia, particularly by mt'ans of the1r Er;dow­ment- of Motherhood Bill. We have It .on medical authority that 9,000 infants d1ed vearl:~ in Australia from prev:entable causes, and that shows that the legislatiOn. of the Fed.eral Government in this matter IS based on humane and rational lines. The Aus­tralian .desires to have a fair rate of v.:ages, but the party opposite think that by mtro­ducin"' thousands of people from oversea, ,and creati~o- an intensity of the labour market, th~y rn~y induce tJ:ose people to ~ccept .lower wages than natural-born Austrabans Will ac­cept, and it is an attempt to stem the flow-ing tide of democracy. ,

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE :. Don t vou think any of those people coming out here are democrats also?

:Mr. LARCO:MBE: I am glad the antiCipa­tion of many members opposite ar~ not realised in that respect. Man:y of the rmmr­grants are really democratic, and good unionists and probably that accounts for the fact that there is not so . much ~ney for immigration on the Estimates thrs .year. (Government laughter.) Another ques~wn I wish to deal with briefly is the questiOn. of irrigation. The Government are domg nothing to make land avmlable fo~ the peop~e, and it was stated by the Scottish CommiS­sioners that hundreds and .thousands ?f Queenshmders could not <?btam a farm m Oueensland. On the que,twn of wat~r con­s':,rvation and irrigation they are JUSt as dilatory and apatl?-etic: If,. instead of spend­ing so much on ImmigratiOn_, they Pl!t .the money into water conservatiOn and Irr~ga­tion and made the country more attractive, people would come here, pot only from oversNt, but also from the other s:ates~. in much larger numbers than at the present time. Mr. Alfred Deakin, the leader of the Opposition in the Federal ~arhamer:t, . on the question of water con~ervatwn aJ?.d Irnga­tion, pointed out that 1f Austr.aha wor:ld follow the example of Amenca, In~la, Egypt and other countries, the populatiOn would' be enormously increased. Mr. Kelly, another anti-Labour member, pomted o:>t that the only v.:ay to iJClcre~se the pop"!lati?n. by thousands 1s by gomg m for ex~ens1ve Irriga­tion. The Premier, when replymg ~o a ques­tion asked bv the hon. member ,or Ro?k­hampton baid that other States ~vere domg no mar~ than Queensland in t~1s n:atter; but that is hardly correct, and, m thrs con­nection, I would like to qnote a paragr'!ph from the Governor's Speech at the openmg of tho New South \Vales Parliament-

" The first allotment of farms on the Murrumbidgee irrigation area marks an epoch in the agricultural development .of the interior of the State. It 1s the m­wntion of the Government to push for­ward as rap1dly as possible the works for the distribution of water f:!Ve.r the whole of the 300,000 acres of Irrrgable land within the area, and the settlement thereon of thousands of families :>n~er conditions which preclude the poss1b1hty of failure.'

Supply. [25 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 1277

And this is what the Minister for Works, Mr. Griffiths, in dealing with that paragraph in the Governor's Speech, said-

" A large proportion of our expendi­ture that has been incurred in providing facilities so that when these men do pro­duce something, they will got the money for it. The chief difficulty of the Ameri­can system, as told me by one of the American visitors, is, that when m<>n do grow produce on the irrigation areas, they m·e robbe.d of ,a very large propor­tion of its value by the middleman. \:Ve are not going to havP any middleman on our irrigation area. We are going to establish butter factories, to which the farmers will take the cream. \Vo will churn it; we will engage refrigerating space; we will send it to Europe, and give to the farmer the net return. If he goes in for fruit-growing, he will have merely to bring his fruit into our canning factory. We will can it for him and send it to market, and give him the full result of his labours. If he goes in for raising poultry, pigs, fat calves, and lambs, we will do the slaughtering for him, attend to the refrigerating and selling, and give him back the full re­sult of his produce, deducting mndv the actual cost of preparing and marketing his produce."

I contend that that represents a rational policy of assisting the farmers, and a policy that should be followed by the Queensland Government. If they do that, they need have no fear but that agricultural labourers and workers generally will flock to this State and give it the assistance it requires. I sin­cerely hope, in conclusion, that notwithstand. ing the bad Government that we are experi­encing, and notwithstanding the continuance of this reckless loan policy, that Queensland will still continue to enjoy the pre:operity that she has been enjoying for many ye"'r' pa't, and she will eventually come out as the best State in Australia.

OPPOSITION MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Mr. GILLIES (Eacham): I dt:siro to make a few observations on this important ques­tion. I, too, am pleased to know that there is no financial embarrassment in this State. I thin!< I can hardly be accused of parochialism if I, first of all, call attention to a matter in my own electorate. I wish to refer to the delay in carrying out the construction of the Malanc'.a to Millaa Millaa Raihrav. While it is a n1attcr -of vital im­portanc·e to m\ electorate, it is also a matter of great importance to the State, and par­ticularlY to this House. H is not one of those iines about which there is a differ­ence of opinion, either in this Honse or in th<" district, as to when the line should he constructed or which route it is to follow. The matter is of so much importance that I might give this House a little brief history of the proposal. First of all, I had the honour m:vself of being one of a deputation to the Minister for Railways on the 3rd :March, 1911, on this question. The Minister was verY sympathetic, and he promised to do all I expected him to do, which "·as to visit the electorate and see for himself. I made out a good case, and I was plE>ased the Minister visited the electorate. As a local snire councillor, I had the pleasure o£ going over a large proportion of tho route with thf' ~"inistPr-that is. th~ route oi 8 miles 77 chains, which has now been sanctioned. Although the Minister would not make any promise to the selectors, ho was favourably

impressed with what he saw on that occasion, and said 'he 'wuld have a survey made. Mr. Drew, a capable surveyor of the Lan?s De­partment, m~de a trial survey and 1s now engaged on the permanent sun-ey. The matter canve before this House, as will be seen on page 2808 of Hansard of last year. I am going to quote from the re­marks made by the Minister in introducing this line, and I thoroughly endo_rse all. that he said on that occasion. l'\ot one smgle member of this House raised any objectio!' fo this line and everyone who spoke o_n 1t thoroughly 'agreed with it. The Minister said-

" It is impossible to. expect selecto~s in such country as th!s to '!lake the1r living unless they are g1ven railway com­nJ.unica tion.''

Then he goes on-" On the Dirran land there are 2')2

selections and at Millaa Millaa 295, equalling' a tota] of 587 sel<;'ctio.ns, 500 of which are prionty. That 1s w1th 500 of fh'ose selections out of 587, the selectors must live on those lands." ·

Priority means personal recoidence. Tho men who take up land there have to ek~ out an existence for five years. The M1mster also went on to say-

" For practically nine month~ _in the vear it is impossible to get prov1s10ns to that part except by packhorses."

I might inform the House that for getting the bare necessities of life by packhorse each selector has to pay about £15 per annum. There is also valuable timber along the route of the proposed railway which, if it is used at the rate of 1,500,000 feet per. annum, .w~mld take fifty years to exhaust. The Mm1ster also said that he thought it would be unw1se for any man to select land there. without a raihnw. The Minister also mentwned that there 'were large areas of rich fertile land beyond Millaa ::'llillaa which were yet un­settled being designed by the Lands Dc­partm~nt. Mr. Sharpe was appointed 1:>;: Mr Thallon to explore the country, not alo~g the route of the proposed line,. but beyond Millaa Millaa. Mr. Sharpe 1s an expert bushman, and he kno'Ys the country well, and he considers that th1s land beyond Nlillaa Millaa is all excellent country .. He made a report on the land beyond ]Ybllaa IVIillaa, and he also wrote an artwle m the Tableland Examiner on the 12th May, 1911. I will just quote his concluding remarks-

" A railway from Millaa Mi!laa to Tully along this route would pass through nch scrub country equal, if not s_up<;rior, to anything in the Atherton d1strwt, and would settle thousands of people on the land."

I quite agree with that, because I have been there myself. There arc 500 selectors settlPd thrre, a·nd they are paying an average of £2 4s. 3d. per acre. That covers the value of the timber, which, if used at the rate of 1,500,000 feet per ann_um, . will. take. fifty vears to exhaust. But If thiS railway IS not built, that timber will have to be destroyed. I cannot understand why the Government turned down such a line as this whilB they propose to go on with the Mount Cuthbert, line. 1 have no objection to the Government building the Mount Cuthbert lim·, but it will be seen on reference to Hansm·d that there was a di!Ierencc of opinion as to tho route of the ;IIount C11thbert line, and as to

Mr. Gillies.]

1278 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

whether it should be constructed at all, whereas in the case of the Malanda line there ,,·as no difference of oponion.

Mr. COYNE: Is there anything on the Estimates for the construction of the Malanda line?

Mr. GILLIES: Yes, there is £10,000 put on the Estimates, and I contend that that money should be spent at once. If thf' selec­tors in that part of the State are prepared to pay £2 4s. 3d. per acre for their land in antici­pation of a railwav, then I consider that the line should be 'built. Table D8 of the Treasurer's tables will show the .average price paid fn this land. Certain work was carried out there which was paid for out of the public estate improvement fund, ·and charged to the selectors. I find that the land there is valued by the State at £110,288 3s. lld. The price ranged from 32s. to £3 an acre, but the average price was £2 4s. 3d. So, when the selectors were prepared to go on that land, put in five y<:>.ars' personal resi­d;o,nce, and pay the Crown £2 4s. 3d. an acre, I think they are entitled to some con­sideration, especially when the Minister points out that it is impossible for these men to occupy land there without a railway. Although it is rich, fertile land, it is not worth anything without a railway.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: They selected it without a railway.

Mr. GILLIES: Thcv selected it on the distinct under,tanding that there would be a railway constructed thne. The Minister for Raihl <>ys was told by Mr. McMahon, who" as very much interested in settling people on the land thde, that 1\Ir. Bell, a form~r Minister for Lands, promised Mr. McMahon that there '' ould be a railway there within two years, and :.VIr. McMahon repeated that promise to the selectors. Without a railway the selectors could not afford to pay 1s. an acre for that land. The hon. member for Herbert can bear out what I s~y, that an assw :wee was given to the selecfors that a railway would be built there.

Mr. LENNON: I know that the current opinion there is that they were distinctly promised a railway.

::Yir. GILLIES: I do not say that the pre~ent :\!Iinister made that promise, but there ''-a" a promise given, and on the strength of that promise tnis land wa;; seler:ted.

:i:lr. IVIENHOLT: No one hut Parliament can giye such a promise.

::\lr. GILLIES: Anyone who knows the. Northern scrub land must know that no one would be mad enough to take up land there and undertake to live on it and pay over £2 an acre for it if there was no nrospect of getting a railway. •

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: You took up a selection yourself without a rail­way.

Mr. GILLIES: I took up a selection on the understanding that a railway would be built. I have received a number of letters from selectors who say that if the railway is not gone on with they will be compelled to forfeit their selections. I would like to quote a few extracts from these letters. I wi11 not mention any names, because if I do it may go against some of them. One letter I received from l\Iillaa Millaa on the 3rd

[lifr. Gillies.

September, 1912, states that if the railwa.\' js not built the selector will have to forfeit his block. He also says--

" Mr. -- told me he had forfeited his seiPction and Mr. -- said he would surrender hi~ if the line was not ar,sured. I, too, "ill let mine go, and go back to New South \Vales, and use 1l1Y pen to prevent others comi'!-g here under false pretences. The Agncultural llanl< must also suffer if the railway is not pro­ceeded with."

That is one of a number of letters which I received during the last few weeks concern­ing this railway.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRIOcLTURE : Do you believe that the Agricultural Bank will suffer?

Mr. GILLIES: I do believe it. The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE : It is

not a good advertisement for the people up there to say so.

Mr. GILLIES: There is no one more sorry to make that statement than I am, and when I say that, I hope the Govern­ment will consider their position, and go on with this line and spend the £10.000 voted by Parliament without delay. If the line is constructed the Agricultural Bank will not suffer. _

Mr. FORSYTH: Don't you know that the amount is on the Estimates now?

Mr. GILLIES: I just want to make a brief reference to the Cloncurry lin<', which was also passed last session. I find that

the Cloncurrv to Mount Cuth­[5 p.m.] bert line was sanctioned after the

Millaa Millaa line, and the Min­ister, in introducing that proposal, made use of these words-

" This was not a railway for the pur­pose of encouraging closer settlement."

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: But there al'e railways and railways, are there not?

Mr. GILLIES: Yes; but I want to point out that the Government have a lot to say about the "backbone" of the country, and that they are the great frienc\s of the farmers, '~- ·d they are always saying they are going tCJ carry out agricultural lines in preference to the other lines.

Mr. FORSYTH: Are they not doing it?

Mr. GILLIES: Not so far as this line is concerned.

Mr. FORSYTH : That is one line.

Mr. GILLIES: There is no one in this House who can point to a line which ha" been Eanctioned by Parliament during t.he last session where there are 500 selectors m­volved paving £2 an acre for the land. If they c'an, 'I will admit that this line takes second place; but where there are 500 bona fide selectors who are prepared to pay £2 an acre for the land, no Government has the right to turn down the line. I have a private letter in my possession-! am ;rot allowed to use it, unfortunately-makmg certain insinuations as to the reason why the Mount Cuthbert line is to be gone on with.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: If they are insinuations, _ why c\on't you state them straight out?

Mr. GILLIES: The ·writer goes on to point out that there are certain very promi-

St;pply. l25 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 1279

nent individuals interested in the Mount Cuthbert mine. The writer says he was work­mg m the Cloncurry district. He is in­terested m the Atherton district and the Millaa Millaa country, and he found from remarks made that this line would not be constructed until after the Mount Cuthbert line was gone on with. I aeked the Min­ister for Railways a question the other day and I am not at all satisfied with his reply: The Millaa Millaa line and the Cedar Creek line also were included in the ten lines that were to stand over till certain other lines were completed. All I desire is that the Minister will use his influence with the Cabi­net, and endeavour to get that .£9 000 still '!'emaining on ~he Estimates spent' in fall­mg and clearmg the line. The perma­nent survey of the first section of the line ha~ .been ne.arly completed, and I hope the Mimst~r Will see ~he wisdom of going on with the fallmg and clearing of th~t line now, in order to prevent the for­feiture of these selections. This is the best time of the yt>ar for falling scrub country in order to get a good burn. It has been found by experience in the Ather­ton district that October and November are two of the best months to fall scrub, in ~order to get a fire. I ask the Minister to use his influence with the Cabinet to have the Millaa Millaa extension started without delay.

Mr. RYAN : The hon. member for Fitzroy had a sad experience-he got turned out.

Mr. GILLIES: I regret to see f am not the only o:w who has had trouble with agri­cultural lrnes, but the Millaa Millaa line has a better claim. I want to say also with regard to railway construction, that th~ Min­~ster gave me his assurance the o.ther night, m reply to a questwn, that there IS no short­age of surveyors for work that the Govern­ment has in hand. One line that the Govern­ment has in hand is the Cedar Creek exten­sion-about 5 miles-and I have a petition from the oelectors there urging the Minis­ter to c":rry out the P.ermanent survey and constructiOn of that !me. I am going to ask the 1finister, if there is no shortage of surveyors, to as soon as possible despatch a surveyor there in order to prevent the for­feiture of land in that district. There 3.:>:0 (',

large number of bona fide selectors ti:e1·e who have gone out into the wilderness .tc carve out ho.mes for themselveJ. They, ko-:>, are paymg big pnces for the land, and desi.-e some assurance from the Government that they will carry out their promise with regard. to the Cedar Creek line. I would like to make one reference to the Commissioner's :-eport, on page 5. I notice that while people ;n the. extreme ~orth a~e asking for single .11ne-,, In the environs 01 Bnsbane lines .ar-e· being duplicated. ,and the Commi''';ioner 1n his report, is urging further duplication.'

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: That is merely a departmental matter for the carry­ing of the traffic.

M':· GILLIES : I admit that, but we are shapmg very well to find our',elves in the same position in Brisbane as the people of New South Wales are with regard to over­congested cities. Queensland has been fav­oured by nature with a number of ports along the coast, ancL :vhile people along the coast, who have gone mto Northern areas to develop that land, are entitled to a single lin~ which they cannot get, the people of B:Isb~ne are cl.am<0>nring and getting a du­plwatwn of thmr hnes. I am a believer in

decentralisation. I am not going to object to a duplication of these lines, but, before those lines are duplicated in the environs of Brisbane and the Southern district, the people of the North, who are going out into the wilderness, are entitled to one line.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: Did you ever hear of a public meeting in Brisbane to acLvocate the duplication of any one line?

Mr. GILLIES: Apparently there is no oc­casion for public meetings.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE : You said they were clamouring.

Mr. GILLIES: '\Ve hold public meetings in the North without any result, but appar­ently the present Government are so irnbued with the necessity of making a greater Bris­bane that they lose sight of the require­ments of the North.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Does Goon­diwindi stuff go through Rockhampton or Townsville-must it not come to Brisbane?

Mr. GILLIES: I have no objection to Brisbane growing so long as the Government give some consid.eration to "the milking cow "-the North. I am one of those who, if we do not get some consideration, will do all in my power to work up a '''cparation cry.

Mr. FORSYTH : It is a good cry.

Mr. GILLIES: It is a cry that will suc­ceed, too. Unfortunately for the people in the North, the Commonwealth Constitution providel that we have first to get the sanc­tion of the State Government, and the State Government, while they are prepared to c\raw all the land revenue they can from the North, are not prepared to pay anything in return. I want to say a few words on the lack of road policy of the present Govern­ment. A Government that has no road policy is like a ship without. a rudder. The road policy of Queensland 1s positively the worst of any State in the Commonwe.alth.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: They abandoned that policy in 1879.

Mr. GILLIES: The condition of the roads in Queensland compares very unfavourably with roads in other part;.

Mr. WHITE: We have the best road.s \n our district.

Mr. GILLIES: What have we got in the North? This Government-the old continu­ous Government-said it was good enough in the early days to give an endowment ~o a shire council in the hon. member's dis­trict who has just interjected, but they re­fuse to give any consideration to the new dis­tricts in the North of Queensland.

Mr. FORSYTH: They all got it in those days.

Mr. GILLIES: The road policy of Queens­land is altop,·ether out of date. The Roman Empire fell, but the roads leading to Rome exist to-dav as a monument to the good sense of th'e early Romans.

Mr. FORSYTH : They are very bad now; I was over them three years ago, so I can speak from experience.

Mr. GILLIES: I have not been there, but I hope the time is not far distant when some Government will review the whole system of local government-that they. will recognise that a road policy is essential for the Go­vernment of any State. I am going to show

."'Jh. Gillies.]

1280 Supply. [ARSEMBLY.] Suppiy.

the treatment that is me"ted out to the local authorities of other States in the Common­wealth. The settlers in my district realise that the development of my district cannot be carried out by themselves. They have to pay w high a price for their land that they cannot pay a tax sufficient to enable them to make a decent road belorc they become producers, and the Government which exvects them to do it have very little knowledge of land settlement. The settlers in my district have placed themselves in communication with the various State Go­vermnents and 1'\ew Zealand. The lo<:al Chamber of Commerce sent out a letter and I am going to quote extracts from the re­plies received thereto. In New South Wales the local authorities are still encLowed to the extent of £200,000 per annum. The local authorities receive an endowment of so much in tht· £1 on the: rates struck. The maximum rates in New South Wales cannot excec,d 2d. in tho £1. The Queensland Government very generously amended thB Local Authori­ties Act recently to provide that &eleetor:; m1ght be taxed to the extBnt of 6d. in the £1. The New South \\·aks Government also assume the responsibility of the uplceen of main roads and closer settlement roads.· :1 ,1 Victoria last year a sum of £100,000 wa,, g-iven to the local authoritie>, and 1t has bean the practice also to provide £50,000 on the Estimates to assist to buil<1 roads to newly settled Crown lands. In South Aus­tralia this year the Government voted £155,000 for the local authorities, and also £50,000 for roads to newly settled areas.· In \\Testern Australia endowment is paid in some cases up to £2 for £1, and in 'I'as­mania and New Zealand a portion of the land revenue is returned in each district. I will quote the letter which the Atherton Chamber of Commerce receivec1 from the De­partment of Public 1-Vorks at Hobart, and also from the Department oJ Land" in :'-Jew Zealand-

" Department of Public \Vorks, "Hobart, 6th Juno, 1912.

•· Dc:tr Sir,-In reply to yours of the 14tl! May, I beg to inform you that pro­vision for road expenditure is principally made in two ways. First, by an amount voted by Parliament against Loans Bill -that is money borrowed for road con­struction, and these amounts arc ex­pended sometimes by the department and sometimes by the local authority as mav he most c1esirablB. Second, b' the pro­visions under the Crown L~nds Act, which is your questions No. 2 and No. 4. If the land is first-cla<·s, lOs. an aero on the purchase money becomes available for road expenditure, if second-class, 5s., if third-class, 2s. 6d. As soon as settler has paid first instalment on his land the amount that may be available as above is expended-that is, expended. in ad­vance of the actual payment by the set­tler, extending over a number of yea:rs. In addition to the above, therB is, of course, the general expenditure by muni­cipal councils of the funds that they r . .:cise by local rating, and the councils r0reive small subsidies for general road purposes from the Government.

"I am,'sir, " Your obedient servant,

" (Signed) G. H. REILLY, "Secretary for Public Works."

[.~[ r. Gillie~.

That is Tasmania. Now this is from New Zealand-

" Department of Lands and Survey, " \Vellington, lOth June, 1912.

"Sir,-I have the honour, by direction of the Hon. Minister for Lands, to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 14th May, asking for information regarding the practice in ~~w ~ealand of assisting local authonhes m the matter of road <'Onstruction in n0wly settled districts.

"In reply, I have to inform you that a third of the revenue from land selected on the ordinarv condition~. and a fourth of that from s;nall grazing nms, is paid to the local authority, which also receives a half of the revenue from timber and flax.

" A copy of the Land Act 1890 is for­warded herewith. The sectwns bearmg on the subject are 145 to 152 and 319 and 320.

" I have the honour to be, sir, ''Your obedient servant,

" (Signed) F. T. O'NEILL, "Assistant "Cnder Secretary.

'' J. F. Currie, Esq., " Secretary, Atherton Cha1nbcr of

'' Comn1erce, "Atherton, North Queensland."

Now, having said that, I think I have shown this House that the Queensland Governme'?-t is the only one in the Comjllonwealth and m New Zealand that does not consider it ad· visable to give some assistance to local authorities to build roads in new areas; and I say that until the Governm<'nt mm~ds its ways in this rPspect, land settlement w1ll not go on. It is impossible for selectors-most of \vho1n are poor 1nen-in s~ru~ .areas, where the 1·ainfall is gn~at, as 1t IB 111 n1~' elBctorate, to build those roads, and bcconw wealth producers. The Government would be well advised if it adopted a road policy somewhat on the linBs of those indicated in thB letter from New Zealand. There can be no objection to returning a ce~tain por­tion of land revenue to each d1stnct. I understand the great objection the Govern­ment offBrs to a return to the endowment system was that it offered to~ much_ scope for political log-rolling and w1re-pullmg.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Not under our eystem. The endowment \\as £2 for also from the Department of Lands in ?\ew then it was reduced to £1 for £1.

JI/Ir. GILLIES: Therz: certainly can be no objection to returning a portion of the li!nd rew.nue to the district, and I do not th1~k that any member in this House can ra1se any valid objection to a portion of the land revenue being spent in building roads and bridges. If it is, the monBy will be returned fourfold I want to now sav a few words with rBgard to the much-neglected minin,g industrv. I regret yery much that there IS

not mo~·e money placed on the ;E~timatcs to as1ist in the development of nunmg, and I refer members in this connection to the Financial Statement, page 10. I notice that in the mining industry there has been a falling off, or rather the TrBasnrer states-

" The features that latterly have characterised the mining industry re­main unalterBd, and the total value of

Supply. (25 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 1281

last year's mineral output-£3,661,063-varies very little from that of its imme­diate predecessor. The decline in the gold yield continues."

I notice particular reference is made to the Dloncurry district, and I do not know whether that has any political significance or not, in view of what is contained in the private letter that I have received.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: 'Which con­tains a blackguardly insinuation.

Mr. GILLIES: I have no reason to doubt the writer of the letter, who is a respectable man.

Mr. WEINHOLT: Why did he make it a private letter?

Mr. GILLIES: There may be penalties which he is desirous of not coming under.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Because he is a coward.

Mr. LENNON: Not necessarily.

Mr. GILLIES: I want to refer to a re­mark here which appeals to me-

" The high price of tin has led to many fresh and valuable discoveries even in our old-established tinfields."

The high price of tin justifies a further ·expenditure on the part of this Government in encouraging prospecting, and in encour­aging the bona fide miner to develop the industry. I regret very much the Govern­ment has not seen the wisdom of establish­ing State batteries and State smelters, and also an assay office in the North. Some years ago a sum of money was placed on the Estimates for the esh>blishment of an assay office at Mareeba.

Mr. LENNON: And Mr. Kidston definitely promised it.

Mr. GILLIES: .'\.s the hcin. member for Herbert points out, Mr. Kidston ddinitely promised the establishment of an a"cav ofiice at Mareeba, and I hope that the ite'i.n will reappear in the Estimates next year. In the far North there is great need for an assay office, so that the working miner can get his ore tested, and not be at the tender mercy of the syndicate and the big com­pany. This Government would be quite justified in establishing State batteries and extending their op<orations to the purchase of minePal ores, so that the v.orking miner in the sale of his gold or tin would get the full results from his industry. I notice that a sum has been placed on the Estimates for the School of Mim·s at Charters Towers, and I do not begrudge that: but I say that the far North is entitled, too, to some consideration. I am also pleased to note that some of the public servants have he~d their salaries in­creased, but I think it is unfortunate that ·the increases have been made at the wrong ·end. Every human being requires the same amount of housing and clothing, and, ap­proximately, the same amount of food. And I think it should be recognised that every adult man or woman in the service should receive enough to live in the enjoyment of .a fair degree of moderate, twentieth century comfort. While some of our highly-paid public servants have had their increases, there are quite a number on the lower rungs who have received no consideration.

1912-4K

The SECRETARY EOR RAILWAYS: No; it is the higher paid who have not received increases.

Mr. GILLIES: A good number of the lower paid have not received increases. While I am pleased to note that in the education branch of the service a minimum of £110 has been .. fixed for adults, I regret very much the Government has not recog· nised the principle of equal pay for equal work, and have not given to the .female public servants a minimum of £110. The Govern­ment seems to think £90 is sufficient for the females; but I believe in equal pay being given for equal work irrespective of sex. I hope the women of Queensland will rise in their might at the next election and tell this Govunment what they think about them in differentiating between the sexes for equal work. I now want to make reference to a remark that the han. the Premier made last night with regard to the high price of cattle. The Premier seemed to be rather pleased to think that the operations of Lhe beef trust would have the effect of increasing the price of beef. We have been given to understand on various occasions that there are no trusts in Queensland.

The SECRETARY FOR _-'I.GR!CULTURE: The Premier did not show any pleasure in the increace in the price of beef. He said the producer was going to get a better price for his cattle, which does net necessarily mean an increaoe in the price of beef; and I have no doubt that you, as a producer, ought to be advocating the cause of the producer.

:Mr. GILLIES: So I am; but I want to see the general public safeguarded at tho same time. I am going to prove that there are some monopolies in this State notwith­standing the han. the Premier's remarks. There are monopolies in Australia, and that old Tory body, the Legislative Council of Victoria, has become alarmed at the opera­tions o·f t.he ,\111erican _'rne,~t trust. The members of that Council are re,dising that they will have to be up and doing and to prove what I am saying I will quote the following from the Sydney Daily Telegraph of the 11th September last:-

" Co::_:],'!ERCIAL BRIGANDS.

" A'I!ERICAN BEEF TRUST IN AUSTRALIA. "Di.1cussion ·in Viet01·ian Legislative

Council. · "Melbourne, Tucsday.-Shortly after

the L~gislative Council nkt, Mr. McWhae, seconded by Mr. McBride, moved that the House adjourn i·o discuss the American beef trust.

"Mr. McWhae said he had no inten­tion of reflecting on tlB Govermne!lt. He dt'>ired only to make tho peopiB con­versant with a dangm· of grnat ntagni­tude. In five years this monstrous trust, composed of a few Amerif'an COP1E'l.erclal brigands, had cornered 31 p0r cent. cf the sheep and lamb £XflOrts from Argen­tine and 40 per cent. of the beef exports. Now it was after the 7,500,000 head of sheep and lambs shipped from Aus­tralasia, and unless the Federal and State Legislatures realised the danger and thwarted the trust by drastic measures, it would get them. It was only by the watchfulness of a few that the Australian Meat Company, under which the trust hoped to sneak into

Mr. Gillie.s.]

1282 Supply. [ASSE:.VIBL Y .] Supply.

Australia, did not get a firm footing in Victoria in an establishment heavily subsidisAd by the State. He quoted figures to show how the trust had cur­tailed the production of beef in North America so as to make it virtually stationary, if not actually decreasing. These business pirates had depreciated the Yalue of beef in their own country in the three years ended 1905 by £32,CCO,OOO, and in that time the average quality of the beef cattle slaught•?red had declined by £25 in every £100. While the priPe of cattle decreased the price of meat to the consumer increased.

" The trust had already established at Brisbane under the guise of the Aus­tralian Meat Company. Mr. Malkow was managing director of this company, and it was quite easy to link Mr. Malkow up with the trust. He had paid sever&! visits to Australia, and was well known as the representative of Messrs. Swift and Co., and had actually made certain conditional offers for several of the works as the agent of Swift and Co. He made no secret in Brisbane that these worb wer<· to be built by Swift and Co. Before the pitiless band of Ameri­can wr,eckd·s then• stood onh- one barrier at the present time-the thin line of privately-owned freezing works. With the trust in the land the producer would have only two alternatives-to sell to Swift and Co., or to send produce to the English market through the Govern­ment freezing works.

"The motion for the adjournment was negatived later in the evening.

"Mr. Manifold gave notice of a motion-

" ' That, in the opinion of this House, it is desirable that the Pre,nier should take action to prevent the American beef trust or, its agents from obtaining a footing within the Commonwealth, and for that purpoFe he should consult with the other Sbte Premiers with a view to simultaneously pas-sing the necessary legislation.' "

The Pre mi< ,. said the other night, in rep l ,. to my question, that he had no knowledge of the matter; and I presume he will still say there are no trusts in Queensland, no trusts in Australia, no " honourable under·

standings," no combines, and no [5.30 p.m.] ring-s. Now, I am going to quote

something about another COl:Yl-1)ine. I am going to ~, k the Comr:tittne to bear with me while I make a quotation from th<' Sclvne~' Bulle'in of H'1 May, 1911. This refers to another octopus. \Vhen I re­ferred to this octopus before, some memben·s on the other side objected, and qualifi'§d their objection with the assurance that they held no brief for the Colonial Sugar Refin­ing Company. If they hold no brief f<Or the Colonial Sugar Refining Company, and cannot refute my crguments, why do they say am·thing at all? \Vhat was the reason for the Treasurer going to Melbourne to protest against the regulations issued by the Federal Government?

An OPPOSITION MEMBER : To reduce wag~s.

Mr. GILLIES : I will not be so unchar i;. able as to sny he desired to reduce wages . but he desired to prevent the Minister f<J~ Trade and Customs bringing into force a regulation fixing the rate of wages at oos.

[Mr. Gillie$,

a week and food, which is a very reason­able wage. The inference to be drawn from· the action of the Treasurer was that the industry is not in a position to pay those wages; and that is the attitude adopted by the Australian Sugar Producers' Associa­tion ; but I am going to show from the Bul­letin that it is in a position to pay the wages prescribed by the Minister fo~ Trade and Customs, and that it is, or should be, the best-paying agricultural industry in Australia. Here is a table publish!ld by the BullDtin of 4th May, 1911-

THE CoLoNIAL SUGc\.R REl!'Il\ING Co. (SYDNEY)-

. 1~8

I 1 ~~, <l::'o o

I

Profits. i Dividends. I' ~ l!~l~ ~ ~~~~ I ~ ·~t~a§

I I I ,_. "' --~-£-~--£-1_£_ -£-~!ar., liJM 100,412 10 p.c. ~lOl',OOO: 412 422,91<5 Sept., 190~ 105 lll 10 , 101,608 II 503 423,416 l\1ar., 1005 l.J5,~%)2 15 , 164.,705 . 414,()33 Sept,., 1"05 lli.3431l0 , 109,965 i 2 378 416,411 )!ar., 1906 112,0!! 10 , no,ooo

1 ', 2,042 418.40"1

Sept., 1906 111,6;9 10 110,r•:o 1,6;9 420,132 Mar., 19(17 110,327110 110,1)00 I 827 420,959 Sept., 1907 118,0,\7 1 lO , llO,t ''0 I 8 057 429,016

£75,ocn of reserves capitali,~ed 33i,Ol6 Thiar., 1908 i 13:1.7821 10 p.c.~ 12± m7' 10,7-15 86:1,761 Sept., li<\'< l1·lG ·193110 , 12!,8R5 i 21,6!'8 i 386,369

Thiar., ~ept.,

.:Uar., Sept,

Mar.,

£:t5tl,OOO of rest..rves capitalised 1909\162.682 I JO p.c ~142,:'00 20,132

1 1909 16.~,881 lO , 142. C')O ~6.3•'1 uno IJ75,59o 10 ... 1J2,5ou

1 33,cDo I

ww i 196,714 10 , 14:J,&oo · 54,214

£150,000 of reserves capitalis· d 1911 1207,428110 p.c. ~15o,ooo 1 57,:~zs 1

36,369 ;:~;.rol 82,882

115,97:! 170,186

20,1&9 77,614

So that in the period under review the dividends paid . by the company increased from £100,000 to £150,000.

Mr. FoRSYTH : Why not?

Mr. GILLIES : I do not object to a company making fair profits; but I say that the industry should be in a position to pay fair wages; and I object to the­Government allowing this company to rob the ,sugar-grow<!r, and not introducing legis­lation to prevev.t this sugar monopoly from robbing thfl farmers. Let me quote another instance. \V e are told there are no mono­polies in Australia; but we know that is not the case. I am not going into details with regard to the shipping combine, but will quote an instance to show what is being done.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE : Is there any objection to any other body of persons starting a sugar refinery?

Mr. GILLIES: I don't suppose there is; but what chance would they have?

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: You talk of monopoly.

Mr. GILLIES: It is monopoly, and the hon. gcr,tle,tan ki1ow, .. there is another monopoly puro and sin;_pk on the north c ·)a:1t of Queens­land. No one kno'vvs that better than the Minister for Agriculture, who told the people in my district, when they complained about the freights on cattle, that if he could noh bring the shipping combine to terms, he would endeavc·'lr to charter a steamer to take cattle to the farmers. He never at­tempted to do it, however, because it would have been coming into competition with the

6'-uppty. (25 SEPTEMBER.) Supply. 1283·

combine. If he did anything like that, it would be the first time in ·the history of the world that a Liberal Minister attempted to compete with a combine in the interests of the farmer.

Mr. FoRSYTH : The combine would chuck the Government out.

Mr. GILLIES: Of course they would, and nobody knows that better than the hon. membe1· who interjects.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: I ad­vised them to charter a steamer. M~. GILLIES: I could quote from a

report of a speech the hon. gentleman made at the time, in which he said that if he could not induce the shipping combine to give a cut rate for cattle, he would en­deavour to charter a tramp steamer and bring cattle up for the farmers.

Mr. RYAN: He was looking for votes then.

Mr. GILLIES: Yes; he was after votes. Mr. LENNON: An excellent idea, and he

could bring log timber back. Mr. GILLIES: We are told that some of

the railways in the North are not paying, and I went to a considerable amount of trouble to try and induce the Commissioner for Railways to reduce the rate on log timber, in order to allow the timber-getters an opportunity of putting that ''bull c.tk" on the market, and the Oommis.,ioner for Rail­ways said the railways were not paying now, and he could not afford to reduce freights.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Did he not give you a special rate for six months?

Mr. GILLIES: It was not sufficient. Six months was not a sufficient length of time to enable the timbermen to advertise their timbers in the foreign markets. ·

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: '\Vas not the time extended ?

Mr. GILLIES: It was not sufficient. Mr. TROUT: But was not that time- ex­

tended? Mr. GILLIES: I believe the time was

extended, but the time was not long enough. While the Government are justified, to a certain extent, in refusing to reduce rates on log timber to such an extent that che railways would not pay, because they are guaranteed railways, I want to show that this Government has made no attempt to deal with the shipping combine on the coast

'of Queensland, and they are allowing that combine to charge the selectors just exactly three times as much freight on log timber from C ~irns to lvlclbournc that it cost''· t-o bring log timber from South America· to Melbourne, and if the Govlltnment were in sympathy with the farmers, they would compel this monopoly to deal fairly with the farmers, and thereby enable the selectors in their turn to pay a reasonable freight on log timber carried over the railways. Yet we are told that the Federal 'Govern­ment should increase the protection. In­crease the protection for what? To allo'N the shipping combine to take it out of the pockets of the people. Would the timber­getters or the workers get the benefit of that protection? No. The shipping com­bine would get the benefit of the protection, so that while I beli<'ve in protection, I certainly do not think the Federal Govern­ment is justified in increasing the protection

until they have the power to deal with monopolies. I just want to give one further instance to show how the travellir.:g public· are fleeced by this monopoly. In 1894, '~ first-class ticket between Townsville and Melbourne cost :£6 15s. To-day, a first-clas• ticket between Townsville and MelbournG costs £18 18s., and we are told it is due to the incrf:'·ls-ed wages paid. If it is ,{u(~ to the incrf',~sed wages, tho fir•-·rrwn shoulu goii about £7 a week now ; and y-et son1e people are simple enough to s~albw rh_is old gag that it is due to the mcrease m "-ages why the 'Shipping comblnP was charging such exorbitant rates. I think I have shown that there are combines, that there are vends, and that this Go'rer.nmem must be in league with these combines when they do not introduce legislation to d8al with them.

Mr. FORSYTH : They are shareholder3--huw could they do that?

Mr. GILLIES: I believe they are share­holders.

Mr. GUNN: You are a shareholder of the labom: combine.

Mr. GILLIES: What do you mean by the labour combiqe?

Mr. GUNN: A combine to raise wages. Mr. GILLIES: Yes, I am a shareholder

in the labour combine to raise wages. I believe in good wage,, and I believe that nny industry that cannot afford to pay good wages is no good to Australia. I believe the biggest asset of any country in the world is happy and contented mPn, women, and children.

The bell indicated that the hon. member's time had expired.

Mr. WIENHOLT (Fassifern) : I think the Government is to be commended on ending tho past year, which has nearly been a deplor­able one, with the surplus that they had. Wo must admit that the country has aiso been lucky in getting the splendid fall of rain that we had recently, because I must say that about May I though things looked very blue, although a serious drought is not so much felt during the year, as it is the following year, when a big decrease is shown in our revenue. I think the highest com­mendation the Government, and the Trea­surer in particular, could have received on the Financial Statement, is the criticisms of hon. members opposite, from their leader dol•mwards. Even such a keen oritic as the ho.n. member for Buranda, last night was most careful to keep strictly to generalities. When the Treasurer asked him to point out where the expenditure was extravagant, or where the revenue might be increased, he waived ever.) thing aside, and said when the Opposition get over here they would show how they could do things. I think that was a little bit unpatriotic, Surely, although they may be in Opposition, they c,ould at least point out where revenue might be secured and where the expenditure has been extravagant, and let the Government and the country have the benefit of the know­l<;ldge which they possess, and not bottle it up till they get on to the Treasury benches. By that time the information may be very stale. There is another matter, and I notice hon. members, to a great extent, have shirked the point. The Premier put it before us very plainly, when he explained how the money market all over the world is hardening, and how, if we go on with

Jl r. W ienholt.1

1284 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

-our loan expenditure, we will have to face .a higher rate of interest. That is the thing we have to face,and make up our minds a,bout, and the question is, are we to go on borrowing to carry out public works and pay a high rate of interest, or whether we should wait till we see whether the interest will be lower. That is a matter on which this House has to make up its mind. I am prepared to give my opinion, anyhow, and it is this: provided we can get the money, .even if "e have to pay 4! per cent., or up to 5 per cent., we should go on and carry ·out those works that have been definitely promised. Once those wqrks are completed, we could review the situation. Certain railways have been definitely promised, and where the people have been given to under­stand that they will be built, let us com­plete them, even if we have to pay up to 5 per cent. for the money, and then let us <Jonsider the position and decide whether we shall go on with further public works.

Mr. MACKINTOSH: I have paid 10 per cent. . before now, and it paid me.

Mr. WIENHOLT: We have simply to make up our minds as to what we shall do. 'The hon. member for Eacham made out an excellent case for the railway from Malanda to Millaa Millaa, and to show that I am not looking at it from a parochial point -of view, I say even if we have to pay a considerably higher rate of interest, we should borrow the money and go on with lines of that sort, where the people have a .definite promise, and have acted on it and -taken up selections, and perhaps spent their: all on the understanding that a railway would be built. The han. member gave us an excellent example of this " yes-no " ·criticism. He made out an excellent case for the ~.T:t:anda to Milla:t MiJ:aa R:tilway, which is one of the ten lines passed last session, and which, under ordinary circum­stances, the people interested would expect -to have pushed on in the near future. But he spoiled his spec<h, in my estimation, by

-turning round and criticising the Govern­ment for starting another railway in an­other electorate, and referred to the Mount ·Cuthbert line.

Mr. LENNON : But they did not pay £2 4·'· 3d. an ,,ere· for their land.

Mr. vVIENHOLT : It was an extraorctinary position for the hon. member for Eacham to take up. I want a railway in my elec­torate. I want the Government to start the construction of the Munbilla to Mount Edward., RJ.ih1 :ty, which "as passed with the· other ten lines, and I was pleas<•d that they were going on with the Mount Cuthbert line because I thouf!ht that our turn would not then be long delayed.

Mr .. RYAN: They stopped the Dawson Valley Railway.

Mr. WIENHOLT: The leader of the Opposition made a great deal of capital out of the broken pledges of the Government. What are those broken pledges?

Mr. RYAN: I mentioned them all.

Mr. WIENHOLT: Let us be perfectly dear on this matter and see what those broken pledges were.

Mr. FIHELLY: Ask the hon. member for Dalby.

Mr. RYAN : Ask those sitting behind the Government.

[Mr. Wienholt.

Mr. \VIENHOLT: Ever since I have been in the House '[ have never had a promise from the Minister for Railways that he has not carried out absolutely except one, and I can say the same about the fremier, ai_Id the only promise they made whwh they drd not carry out was in connection with the tabling of the plan~ for the via recta this year: When it is boiled down, this is what it amounts to. 'fhey made a mistake 'Yhile taking part in a function here, and m a rash moment-(Opposition laughter)-the Premier made a definite promise that the via recta would be tabled this session. We will not deny that that pro_m_ise was ma~e, becausE' it was so. The Mrmster for Rarl­ways backed up that statement.

Mr. FOLEY: There was too much cham· pugne that night.

Mr. WIENHOLT: No; I do not think there was too much champagne, but there was a large and cnthusiaqtic audience, and it is quite possible that the Premier and the Minister for Railways were a little bit carried away by the enthusiasm of the moment .

Mr. FoLEY: And the good seasons. Mr. WIENHOLT: We had a good season.

I was a little bit frightened at the time that they were a little bit too optimistic. I was not foreseeing that it would be a question of money difficulties, put I thought that the season mi<rht turn out to be a bad one. I knew that" the via recta would be a splendid line to conserve the Western trade and re­lieve the traffic from Toowoomba and Helidon, but I thought that if we had a bad "eason and we were losing sheep in the \V estern country that there would be no pressing need for the via recta. A man does not want to buy two cows if he can get enough milk from one cow, and it is the same with the State railways. As things turned out. the money market has tighten<,d, and there has been a difficulty on the money market. Han. members must acknowledge that the Premier came down to the House in a perfectly fair and manly way and owned up that he w~s not able to fulfil the promises that he had made, and he explainec1,#it fully to the House and the country.

Mr. RYAN : He did not put it in those terms.

Mr. WIENHOLT: If the leader of the Opposition ever occupies the position· of Premier and he never has to look back on anything in the way of a broken pledge worse than that, he will do very well, indeed. The deputy lead~r _of the Opposi­tion, to do him justice, did make at least a clear proposal. He said, " Let us raise £1,000,0()0 out of our revenue and build. all our railways out of revenue, and do no further borrowing." I am afraid Queensland will be put into a very bad position if she had to raise :81,000,000 extra from revenue. (Hear, hear.) I do not think we could do it, but I will say this, that I think that we might be able to raise a little more revenue than we are doing at the present time. I am not one of those who think that we are so heavily taxed in this country, but at the same time I think it would be advisable to keep that reserve up our sleeves to be used in a bad time. But if we put on an extra £1,000,000 to build our 1·.ailways out of revenue. then the first time we get any sort of a check we would find that the country would be in a very bad position indeed.

Mr. LENNON : You want to eat all your cake at once.

Supply. [25 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 128&

Mr. \VIENHOLT : There IS an expression that we

1should not kill ~he goose that lays

thu g'.>h,en egg. Thn IS a 1se and true saying. \Y e do '.'Ot want to do anything to stop the prospenty of the country for in­vestme:lt .and so on. .At thP same time, I thmk L IS a good thmg to o-ive the goose a little condition powder and f;nd a few more golden eg-gs if we can.

Mr. RYAN: Who is the goose?

)Hr. WIENHOLT: Th" goose that la,·s tne income tax return~ is one goose that we ?ave t;CJt tu look after. (Hear, h.e'1r! and laughter.) Th,·re is a reference in the State­ment to !and settlcmenL Things have been very P.rosperous in the West since 1902, and ther9 IS no douJ:lt th,·y are going in more for grazmg farms m those parts. Those selec­tors :'·ho have taken up land have done well m late years, and when anyone is doin,; well like that there is al" ays a big demand for land. Hon. members opposite say that !he Governme!lt are not cutting up tbJ hold­mgs m the \\ est as quicld v r.s thev might do. • ·

:Mr. RYAN: No; they are not. Mr. WIEXHOLT: I notice thc.t members

opposite did not give anv specific case to prove what they said. ·

Mr. RYAN: 'I'he hon. member for Gregory did. .

Mr. \VIENHOLT: I did not hear him say s'?. I listened very carefully, and I heard hun Llc' he knew several cases, but he did not give them. If one can judge by the st>;t<>ments app<enring in the newspapers, I tl11nk the Goyernment arc doing all they can in the matter of making resumptions, be­cause we see paragraphs from time to time me_ntioning that country is being resumed as qmckk as possible.

Mr. RYAN: The people out \Vest do not think so. ·

Mr. \VIE:\JHOL'l': I have been intere''<ted personally in several cases in the West, and the,- have taken every single acre of land from me that they are entitled to take. (Laughter.) I presumed that that was the case all through the country.

Mr. RYAN: No.

Mr. WIENHOLT: Others perhaps are luckier than I was. (Laughter.) There is a feeling, perhaps, on the part of a k"'>S-e·e that he do<<S not like his Iand to be tak0n from him, but I think it is the finPst thing that could Ha)1pen, bc-cauo'' you know where you are then, and you can go on and develop the rest of the country in security. Some little capital has been made out of the statement that there is a decrease shown in the num­ber of cattle, but it can be explained in this way : The season has been exceedingly bad, and on a great many stations they did not carry out their branding operations. This is generally done in November and De­cember. I understand that manv stations are doing their branding now, so that we will find from the next returns that instead of showing a decrease they will show an in-crease. ill>

Mr. RYAN: What is your opinion of the meat trust?

Mr. WIENHOLT: I am not going to say that I am not frightened of the meat trust but I think that the onlv damage thev ca.~ do to us is in the market's of the old world. I do not think it strengthens their position at all to come out here and start meatworks. I am not afraid of any works established

here by th,, meat trust, because it li always possible to put up co-operative works in oppositim, to them if they do not pay a fair prin ·for our produce. But it is a very d.ifficl}lt Jhing to compete with the~n in the dl,trH::c~. ;c.n o. the meat at home, ·,• ><ere they have :::Jl-Gndid or~anis:,tion, and ,,he:;_-,:) the..,~ have thAir own shops. I am not frightened about r--~111 c,tarti'1g mt<tt"vvorks here, because this is not where th€l contest will take place.

Mr. LENNON: But it gives them a gnp. J\ir. \YIENHOLT: No; the grip comes in

the markets of the old world. There is a great diversity of opinion belween the con­sumer and producer as to the price of meat. 'l'h" producer c.'lnnot get a good high price for his meat and the consumer get a cheap product as well. It is absurd to expect that. Everyone knows that when cattle went down to £2 and beef was selling here very cheaply, althouch it must have been of great benefit to the working men of Brisbane, I do not think aw·one will sa:y that it was a healthy thing for the v,hole State of Qur·'nsl.and. We have the rural vvorkers' demands coming on, a.nd if n1oat is to 1::,-~ as cheBp in Brishane as it used to be it will not pay anyone to keep cattle at all. In those days it took the cattle stations all their time to make a balance every year. Then there is always a certain amount of meat kept for home con­sumption. It is a real good class of meat, but it is not de•.irable for export.

The s~cRETARY FOR R·AIL"V~~-AYD: It is not a suitable size.

Mr. WIE?\HOLT: In addition to that, we h.we a number of old S)Ayed e>.>w;, "hich pro­vide excellent beef, but as a rule they are not chosen for export in the same way that young bullocks are. I think there will be big d"volopments in that line, as cattle are bringing a fair price now. That is a far b~tter thing than having beef down to the old state of things when the price of meat

was dirt cheap. The question we [7 p.m.] were discussing before that was

land settlement. By land settle-1nent I thinl-:: 1\ c c:tn fairly mean land Bt\ttle­ment of every kind. It is curious that the· l~ader of the Opposition describes the exten­sions of the railways in the 'West as being of a wild-c'Lt nature.

Mr. LENNON: No; the Great Western: Railway only.

.Mr. HAMILTON: The cros· sedion only. Mr. WIENHOLT: Certainly, that is an

excellent explana£ion now, but I listened to· what he said, and he made no such distinc­tion as that. I can quite und.erstand that the hon. member for Gregory would de­scribe it as such. At the same time, it is curious to hear the hon. member for Gregory describing the extensions as being the best paying railways we could build, and to a. great extent helping to increase the revenue.

Mr. RYAN: I said the Western lines were­the best paying lines we have.

Mr. WIENHOLT: Just so .. It is curious. to hear the hon. member saying so, after carefully listening to the leader of the Oppo­sition as to the wild-cat nature of the scheme!< thmnselves.

Mr. RYAN: You were not listening to me­you ought to read my speech in Hansard.

Mr. WIENHOLT: I would have been pleased to do so if I could. have got a copy of the stJeech-I think it would make it very plain. Ther.:l is another kind of land settle­ment of a closer nature, and I hope the·

Mr. Wienholt.]

F!upp1y. ~ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Minister for Railways will push on with t:,,., work of settling the Upper Burnett lands in partknlar. There are lands which men1-hers r-epresenting farrning constituencies in the older sdtled distrit 's are particularl~­k€en to >"-0-C' ut u::1 arc i n1a j{' aYailable for young f:,rn1cr3 settled in our district. I do not wish h s' art elPctionecring· no'"'· (Laugh­tPr.) But I hope we shall have Mr. Corser back from 1\lcl.ryborcmgh,. as I lo0k upon him .us tho great_ st chan1pion \Ve have had in the Hou'" i~, that direction.

Jl,1r. RY.Ui: Don't start elee:tione,crir,g now.

Mr. WIEXHOLT: I think the han. mem­b,,r for Gn-J·ory put brfore the House a very fair criticism in this ay. In quot­ing the whole of our rev,mue from the rent -of selcction:-that is practically the pay­ments that !clade the selections fre?hold-to Dur rcvcnp ' account, tho hon. a1c nber pointed out that tho last instalment of that is practically coming into the State; and at the same time he mentior1ed the tin1ber royalti{''.'3. Fro1n a finan-cial point of vie\v, that is not quito proner, and I do not think the main portion of that should go into our revenue year after :year. Of course. it mav be said that the l~and settled is more import'ant to our State than it was before, but I do not think we are justified in putting the whole of that money to our revenue account. When we have to curtail our railway policy to the extent we are doing now-by cnrtail I simply mean that some railways are delayed-some hon. members {iescribed them as being closed down, but I do not think that is the position at all-it seems to me that we cannot get the work on quite as quickly as we would like, but I think that, when we have to economi''' to that extent, we should not go in for any unnece~sary .luxuries at all. There are just a couple of items in the Estimate which I would like the Treasurer to know I have got my eye on. One of them is the vote for Government House. That has slipped in again, and I think we shall have to ask the Treasurer to again renew .that promise of his not to spend any further money on it till it comes before the Hou"e. Although it is only a small vote, I am against spend.ing money on it at present. There is another small vote, rather in the way of a luxury, which has been touched upon by the hon. member for Carnarvon; that is in ccmnec­tion with the site for 11 zoological garden. If we had to feed twenty or thirty tigers and. hyenas it would be almost ad bad as the meat truet. (Laughter.) I think that is .one little item that we might leave. There is one matter which, I think, is of the greatest importance in any study of the financial position of the State-that i·<, a good working relationship between us and the Federal Parliament. At present, the Federal ·Government is a Labour Government, and our frienc1

d opposite are, perhaps, naturally jealous, and resent anything that they think is an attack upon them from a party point ·of view. But I think that we might try and look upon this not· altogether from a party point of view, because it is possible that hon. members may be on the Treasury benches here, and the Liberal party may be :in power in the Federal Pm·liament one of these days, and then the same thing will crop up, and both parties again-especially State Ministers and the State Government­will realise the importance of having a good and friendly understanding with the Federal

[ .Llf r. W ·ienholt.

Parliament. T believe we are Australians fir 't, ancl, Queenslanders second; but the FeUe-r:':! Parliament is the senior partner or the big brother.

Jl..Ir. FIHELLY: The bad boy of th,, family at pn,,ent.

Mr. WIENHOLT: ThJre is a good deal that the Federal Parliament c;m do to help U3, nne! there is a good deal that they can do-I do not i·O.Y intentionallv-but rt cannot Lelp causing us, from a financial point of view, a great dee1l of harm. 'rake th? Federal iand tax, for insb,nce-I c1,o not w1· h to go into the rigLt.. or wrongs of this, because that would not be in order-but I cannot help thinking that, apart from tl_re o.ctual tnx in1posed hcrP, it must be do1ng us a good deal of harm in many wayc. I hap~en co be the chairman of a company, of whrch there are many shareholders at h_omP in E:r;g­land, peopl" who have not been m Australra.

Mr. RYAK: Abs .. ,ntees-they are the proper people to tax.

Mr. WIENHOLT: Yes, they are the proper people to tax, as we will prove p~e­sently. :Many of them are out of touch wrth Australian affairs. The company pays a tax here, and yet each one of these individual shareholders, who may only have a few shares, receives a long personal docu':llent fr_om lhe Fecm·al authorities in Australra, .askmg them to pay this tax, and to value the la!fd, and all that sort of thing. I do not tlnnk it is the fault of the administration; tJ:tey are only carrying out the Act. The _thmg is ridiculous. I have a relatrve about eighty­four or eighty-five years of age, and you can imagine the state it puts the old lady into when she gets a document of that sor~. It must do a great deal of harm. There IS

another thing : When the leader of the _Op­position says that the abs,ntees are the rrght people to tax, I may poi:r;t out tJ:tat, _under this Act, a young Austral!an servmg 1n the British navy or nrmy IS trea~ed as _an ab~entee. l-Ie may be on active serv1ce Pven, and yet he is treated as an absen­tee, and I defy the han. member, al~hough he is a member of the legal professiOn, to prove that I am not right in saying t~at. I say that to treat the young . Aus~ralran native who happens to be servmg I!' the British navy or army ao an abscnh"' IS one of the meanest and most miserab1e things eYer done by o.ne of the British colonies to the n1other country.

Mr. RYAN: That is merely incidenta~ to the system. Why do you pick out lrttle pinpricks like that?

Mr. WIENHOLT : The fact is there, and they have to pay. Remembering that. ';Ve are only here by the grace of the Brit1sh fleet, and remembering what we owe to the mother country, though I am an Aus­tralian native, as perhaps some m":mbers on the other side are not, I say a thmg of that sort is very meal}.

An HONOURABLE MEMBER: Tl:),ere are very few cases of that kind.

Mr. WIENHOLT: If it occurs only once -and I say it has oc_c'!-rred-the ~act re­mains that the author1tres responsrble for this matter have not acted fairly and honestly towards everybody. The best an~ most favourable feature of the whole of th1s Financial Statement is the fact that we can meet our interest with 5 per cent. of our revenue, instead of 27 per cent., as ~as

Suppiy. (25 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 1287

-required some years ago. That puts the whole thing in a nutshell, and as favourably as it can pos,ibly be put. I believe we have at the head of our financial affairs a Trea­surer who, though having a courteous man­nor, has yet a very firm hand over the finances of the State. I believe the people of the State J.:ecognise that fact, and l am of opinion that if he will just keep a firm hand on the finances, and a weather eye on the seasons, so as to be prepared for a bad season, which may come at any time, and perhaps keep a little more up his sleeve than he has done, it will be well with the State.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS (Han. \V. T. P1\get, Jfackay): Before pro­ceeding to the matters on which I desire to speak, I should like to intimate to han. members that I have prepared some rather Interc-~ting ~tatcn1f'nts resptcting the trans­actiDns .a£ thco Raihvay Departn1ent, -which it will be irnpossiblc for 1nc to read in the tin1c at my diepo;,al. I therefore ask if the Com­Initte-f~ -will give n1e 11ermissio-n, when I refer to thoFe statelnents, to have t2Ien1 taken as read.

The CHAIRMAN: Is it the pleasure of the Committee that the statemen.ts prepared ,by the Secretary for Railways should be taken as read ?

HoNOURABLE ME:MBERS: Hear, hear!

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: I thank hon. members for that permission, ,and I hope that when the statistical tables 'are printed in Hansard, members will find that I have carri9d out the promise I made the week before last, to present a statement ehowing the compar",tive cost of contract work and day labour in railway building in Queensland during the last eleven or twelve years.

Mr. RYAN: The compadson is in favour of day labour.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: The leader of the Opposition will have all the information before him if he will allow me to proceed as quickly as I can. It strikes me that the debate on the very able Financial Statement which has been pre­sented by the TJ;:easurer has largely resolved itself into a debate on railways and the administration of the Railway Department, and on the question as to whether it is wise for the Government to go Blow, in the matter of raihvav cnnstruction or build eVf'tV rail­way that" certain han. members desire for their electorates, to the neglect of every other railway in the State.

An HONOURABLE MEMBER: That would be a calamity.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: I do not presume to say wheth1lr it would be a calamity or not, but some persons would no doubt think it was a calamity. About a month ago the leader of tlie Government made a statement in the House with respect to the railway policy of the Government, and I claim that it was a perfectly straight­forward, candid, and honest statement.

JYlr. THEODORE: It was a dimb down fron1 previous utterances.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: It was not a climb down, but was a purelv bueiness statement, which the house and the country were entitled to. With regard to ihe question as to whether we should go

full steam ahead in railway COJ)struction, I may point out that last year the Railway Department spent £2,800,000 in the develop­ment of the State, and that this year it is proposed to spend a sum of not less than £2,300,0GO. In view of those facts, I fail to follow the arguments of hon. members on both sides of the House, when they say that we are turning down railway construction in Queensland. We are not turning down rail­way construction; we are doing quite the right thing when the Government find that money is not as easily procurable at the old rate of interest as it has been in the past. . ::\1r. G. P. BARNES: Do you say you are

spending £2,300,000 this year?

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS:, Yes.

Several HoKOURABLE MEMBERS interjecting, The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS:

I have only a limited time in which to make my speech, and I trust that hun. members will allow me to proceed without interrup­tion. One hon. member stated that nine or ten railways were passed by the House last session, and that they ought to be con­structed. Those railways were promised by the House, not by me. The han. member, like some other members, also wished to know why we were spending so much loan money. It is no use members blowing hot and blowing cold. Members must either vote the money necessary to carry on rail­-way construction o::- refuf':) the n1on~"Y re­quired and stop railway works. The leader of the Opposition, the hon. member for Gregory, and the hon. member for Eacham stated that the Mount Cuthbert Railwa:v had been started to the detriment of other- rail­ways that were approved by the House last session.

Mr. RYAN: No; not to the detriment of other railways, but in preferen09 to other railways.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: It is impossible for the Treasurer to give me as Minister for Railwa:vs such a supply of money as will cnabl~ me to carry on all the railways '"'e have in hand •at a quicker rate than they are being carried on at the present time. 'Where 'it is a qu;,;tion of continuing the sections of either the North Coast railwavs or the Great 'Western Rail­way beyond 'the sections that are at pre'Yent under construction} the qut''ltion arises .. whether the Trea,:,Urf:r ,can allow us 1a.ny n1ore money m· not; and I r·ep<•at that it is good business for the Commissioner fat Railways to try to complete those sections- and make them revenue-producing, before attempting to build any extensions in the direction in which those sections are running. Certain sums of mo•;eY have been found for that pnrpose, and I hope also that tho>'" sums of money will prove sufficient to continue the work on those sections. But I would like to refer to the section of the Malbon to Sulieman Creek extension, which is prac­ticallv eon1pl<'ted-that is down to Duch<Jss­and the traffic is now being carried over it.

Mr. RYAN: When did you find that out?

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: 'Ve were running in June~

Mr. RYAN: The Premier made his state­ment on the 31st July.

The SECRETARY JWR RAILWAYS: I said it was practically completed. The

Hon. W. 1'. Paget.]

1288 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

section will not bo :wtually <hlmplete for some little time, but we ai< running the tnaffic in ord•lr to try and make the sectiDn pay before the line is CDmpleL·l. A• a matte: of fact_. traffic \Vt·., being run ov.er five 01~ six ,(!,_via tion::: > ·,-:·hich i.3 g0od busineP.3. Wh .t thD Premic>r has sbtccl, ;md what I have .'t-ated, is that it 1s gDD.cl businrss that .as the c;<>ctions, or the line· are complded we sh0uld try, a J far as posoible, to <·nncen­trate our efforts on to oth~r lin#·-:~, "'here it is eco:r}~)nli~· .11Iy po<, ··iblc, in orrJ;;r to bring th<:··l into the positi-n of revenue-pr0ducing prr.positions. 1'1'hat is the position DUt in the Cloncurrv district? Will any hon. mem­ber say it is· unwise to try and open up that· vast mineral we.ilth in the north-west of Quf'<~nsL.lcld?

Mr. RYAX: No one has said it. The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS:

I say no hon. member will say it. The position is this : The Commissioner for Railways is anxious to see whether we cannot get another mineral line in that direc­tion intD a. railway-paying proposition, .and it is uneconomic for us to attemnt to take the plant, the staff, and the men ;.way from the ~-Ialbon i.J Sulieman Creek lir:.-' and bring them down to Townsville, or to Mac­kay, or to Bowen, when Parliament has .ap­provNl of the building of thD first soction of the Mount C'uthbGrt Rrrih- av.

Mr. RYAN: Did you not know that on the 3-1st July, whDn the Premier made that state­ment in the Hone,,?

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: I say the railway policy of the Governm<mt is not being departed 'from. The first sec­tion of the Malbon to Sulieman Creek line being completed, I say the economic pro­position is to start with the plant, the staff, oand the men that are there on the line· which will open up this great mineral dis­trict. I do not know whether it is wise for 111<:\ to say anything abDut the insinuations or the statements that have been made re­g-arding shares having been forced up and down in the market owing to the Govern­ment first of all bringing a line forward, then ''}thdr":wing iti . and ,then, bringing it forwarct .agam. I tnmk tnat tnat 1• prac­tically the etatPment made. [ have nothing t-o do with what stA~khrok'8l'S do. Stock and share brokers will snread all kinds of canard~ for the purpose..._ of .forcing share~ up and down as it pleases them but I have no intert"-t in them. I have h,:ard nothing of it, and all I can say is that so far as the Govf'rnment is concerned there has been no putting on of tho railwav, drawing it off, then starting it again. The Commissioner for thD past three months has been extremelv oanxi:ous to start t~at railway at the very earhest date pos"bk·. The railwav has been started and I hope it will be proceeded with to a compl-etion ..

Mr. RYAX : Did not the latP Minister for Public Inotrudion comnlain when you had gone on with that line?

The SECRET.ARY FOR RAILWAYS: I !1ave not the slightest wish to say anything wrth regard to what the late Minister for Public Instruction has said. What he said is his business, and I do not prDpose to refm· to his statements .at all.

Mr. RYAX: It is the country's business and the Committee's business.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: With respect also t-o the question •as to whether these certain lines should be carried

[Hon. W. '1'. Paget.

on or not, I say unhesitatingly thst I_ think there should be no timiditY shown m the carrying on of railwa0 o in Queenslc.nd in ~ rcosonable manner. The hon. member for Chillagoe, when he was spDaking last night, ,.,dvocatcd, as .a matter of fact, that £1,000,000 a y<·'1r should be spent on the cxmstruction of railways in Queensland; but of. course he advocate.] that the money should be derived from revenue, which ad­vocacy, of courc£', I ab•wlutcly disag1·ee with, brr mse tl1C're is no redoon at all why the pro•<'1lt generation of sectlers ·and pioneers of QuDensland should be bxed for the building of railways for future genera­tions.

HoNOURABLE MEMBERS: Hear, hear !

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: There are railway companiDs with capital that run; up to four times tho pu~lic debt of Queensland; in fact, th,, English com­panies have capital invested in them to the <-·xtent of £1,000,000,000. If any one of those companies desired to build .-ven 100 mile, of railway, it woul_d not take the capital cost of construction out of Its revenue. and we have no right to .ask the shareholders in our railways of Queensland to provide out of their revenue, whether it comes from taxation or the revenue of the Railwa;· Department, thD c-apital that ib necDssa~y to extend our railway systems. I would like to sav with respect to the large loan Biils that ·were passed through this House some two years ago, that ther:" i~ a. provision in them fo_r. a ~- per. cent. sn:kmg fund, and that prov1s10n IS bemg provided.

Mr. KIRWAN : It is .about time something was done tD repay loans.

TLB SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS' It is fur better to be r<·pentant, although it is not a dE'ath-bc·l repentance, than not to be rDpentant at all. And what I would like to point out is thi ·; : 1Nh, should there be a. sinking fund in connection with railwa:ys c There arc no sinking funds in oon':'-•'ctwn with private comnanies that build r.a1lways. The road bed of ~ railway, prDvided the up­keep is as it should be, and .as it is in Queensland, is just as valuable at the :"nd of thirty y<oars as it is at the en~ ~f th~rty month··;. As a matter of fact, 1t 1s much more valuable.

Mr. KIRWAN: What about the roa-d? The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS:

There has been a very great deal in the· offorts of hon. members to try and sDw dis­

sension among the members of [7.30 p.m.] the Liberal party because cer-

. tain r-ailwavs have not yet been started, and the hon. member for Chillagoe -quite rightly-brought up the matter_ of the Toumoulin to Cedar Creek extensiOn. ¥/hen he was speaking, I understood that the •roumoulin to Cedar Creek extension was in his electorate.

Mr. THEODORE: l'\o; originally it was. The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS:

I find the hon. memoor for Eacham brought forward the question of the extension from Malanda, and also the question of the Toumoulin extension. I have not the slight­est douh' that the efforts of hon. members to so~v dissension because certain agricul­tural lines havD not been started will fail ignominiously.

Mr. GILLIES: We did not try to sow dis. sension; we tried to show you your duty,. moral or otherwise.

Supply. 25 SEPTEMBER.) Supply. 1289

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: My moral and my business duty is for myself to consider; and that duty will always be faithfully ( .;rried out. There has been some discussion concArning the extravagant provision for carrying on the 'ervice of the State. Is it possible for the Treasurer to introduce a Financial Statement that does not show an excess of expenditure over the previous year, if he desires to better the condition of those in the public service ( But it cannot be said that those receiving over £400 a year have b,en given any material increasr·c•. That matter was thrashed out last night, when it was clearly shown that, with the <'xception of a f,w cases under agreement, there has not been one increasB of a salary of over £400; and in the Railway Department there has not been one. In the Railwccy Department, revenue account, hon. members will see that we hav·' ask<ed for-

Actual estimated increase of expenditure over last year's actual expenditure is . £122,791

Over last year's estimate '" £245,319

In the actual increase is in­cluded-

Classification incrrases £46,793 Special increases, salaries, £250

to £400 2,210 Special classification increase

to lower-paid men of 6d. per day, 7s. to 7s. 6d. per day, grading upwards 15,000

£64,003

The total is £64,003. The classifiC'ation in­creases, ordinary, amount to £32,051; classi­fication, promotion of drivers and firemen, £11,362; and the classification increases, gatekeepers and carriage cleaners, £3,380. It has been sugge•·ted that the rates and fares on the railways should be reduced; at the same time I am always told that I should increase the emoluments to employees, of whom there are 9,060. \Vhat I wish to point out is that every £30,000 of increases to the employees means 1 per cent. of the revenue of the department. The £64,000 increases this year means an additional 2 per cent. increased expenditure on the gross estimatBd revenue; and during the past two years thr increases to the wages and salaries of employees of the Railway Department total £120,000, which means another 4 per cent. If hon. members refer to the Com­missioner's report, they will see the percen­tage of expenditure to earnings has in­creased from 57 per cent. to 63 per cent.

Mr. PAYNE: Is that on account of higher wages?

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Yes.

:Mr. PAYNE: You are charging bigger fares than the other States.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: That is a question we will thrash out on the Estimates. I say these improved conditions to the lower-paid men are more than justifi­able, and result in a better service to the department and to the public. Now let us touch for a few moments on the loan votes_ Are the loan votes asked for on behalf of

the Railway Department too ample for th& work on hand? I say, without fpar of con­tradiction, that they are not, as a matter of fact sufficient and that if W" could 'pend mor'e money it would be bettn for tho State.

Mr. FOLEY: Why don't you ask fo~ mar.:;? You belong to. the party who believes m spt4nding 1noney.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: If I could get more money for spen~ing in that direction-not undue expendJture-I certainly would do so. I say, without fear of contradiction b:;· any fair-mi";ded rna":'-, that the £2,300,000 asked for thrs year Js certainly not a sum that can be re!farded as too much; and it is not one that '':'ll enable anyone to say that we are turnmg down railway nrooositions. I h'ave taken the trouble t~ a·nalyse this, as hon. members will sec from the following table:-

LOAN EXPENDITURE DURING TWELVE MONTHS ENDING 30TH JUNE, 1912.

Construction-new lines ... £1,259,833 Improving existing !in:s,

duplications, relaying, sid­ings, &c,

Cairns-J1I ulgra ve-purchase of tramway (exclusive of roll­ing-stock)

Surveys Rolling-stock ·westinghouse brakes Additional telegraph, &c. Special suspense Stores suspenseL including per­

manent way material (less issues)

435,267:

124,543; 12,388

473,691) 32,450 12,894 21,713

399,009

Oommi.::sioner's report Add repaymPnts

figures £2,771,787 82,773

Treasarer's figures ... £2,854,560

Last year the loan expenditure in the Rail­way Department was £2,854,560; but c~m­struction of new lines took £1,259,833 ; Im­proving existing lines, £435,267; and on rolling-stock we spent £473,690. Han. mem­bers will notice that the Treasurer's figures exceed the Railway Department's figures by £82,773, and that is on account of w)lat are. called repayments. They are certam pay­ments we make from special suspense account and other accounts to the Treasurer, wh.o does not actually give our loan vot)3 cr~dtt for them. It is a matter of bookkeepmg.

·Now let us come to this year's proposed votes, of £2,30'0,000-

ANALYSIS OF PROPOSED LOAN EXPENDITURE,, 1912-1913.

Construction new linf's Purchase Proserpine Tramway Rolling-stock, all lines Surveys, land resumption,

\VestinghousB brake, tele­graphs

Improving open lines Loan staff salaries

£937,955 101,000 502,02i

128,001'l 563,173 67,778

£2,300,000,

The construction of new lines is put down at £937,955. I could not possibly h~ve mad.& this amount any nearer to the ~1,000,000,

Han. W. T. Paget.]

l290 S1:p:. 'iJ. [ASSE:'IIBLY.] s lpply.

that the hon. member for Chillagoe men­tio_ned last night, even if I knew he was gomg t_o s_tate those figured. It is a remark­able comcrdence. I propose to :·pend this out of lo.m money, and not out of revenue taken from the pockets of the people. The items ar~: Co,t of Pros"q~ine Tramway, £101,000; r01lmg-stock, . all J:ne~, £502,094; ;mrveys, land re.3un:i'hon, \-Vest1nghousc brake, tele­graphL, £128,000; improving open lines :£563,173; loan staff salaries, £67,778; mak~ mg a total of £2,300,000. This afternoon an ho':'. member elated that the people around ~rrsbane. are clamouring for duplie::1tion of hnes, wnereas, in the North we have to put up with single lines. A~ a matter of fact, the Commissione-r and his officers could spend the whole of that loan vote in im­provi_ng exis_t,in_g line; w!thout. spending a farthmg of n m connectwn wrth new con­.struction works, anc1 they could spend the ~vhole of that money quite e.conomically, and rt would make for the better and more eco­nomi~al. working o_f traffic on existing lines. But rt rs not possrble for the Commissioner and I to get all the money we think is necessary for doing that most necessary work Yf e have to do it partly year by year, and 1f we could have 150 or 200 milc3 of dupli­cated lines around Brisbane, where the heavi­est traffic in the State is-it is the natural port for .a very large area of Southern Queensland-we, as a matter of fact would not want as much rolling-stock as \~'e have .at the present time.

Mr. KIRWAN: We would not have the de­lays either.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: vVe would not have to ask the House for o0ver £500,000 for new rolling-stock because the rolling-stock ~vould no~ be d~layed at the staff statiOns rf these hues wore dupli­cated .. Bu~.,l hope, J:dore many years are over, It WI!, be possibJo for that work to

. be don_e co~momically. I have already stated -I thmk 1t 'vas last week or the week be­fore-that at a convenient time I would give to members of the House a statement ,show­ing the difference between contract and day labour in Queensland,,

Mr. GRAYSON: When was it tested?

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: I would point out that the fio-urcs in con­nection with the mileao-es sho~ a most ex­tr±tordinary coincidenc~.~ I have in 1ny hand a statement prepared by lv1r. Robert .\rmour,

·Of the Engineers' Department, in 1897, which sho\' s the cost of 1,144.94 miles of railway built by contract in Quecmland between the years 1881 and 1896. That return has beea in the d<•partment since 1897. I asked the chief engineer, some months ago whether he would, for my information prepare a re­turn at his convenience, sh~wing the cost and m.il<:age of ~ailway constructed by day labour s_mce the mceptr?n of the c'.cty labour system m Queensland m 1900. This state­ment was prepared, and I again say it is . a most remarkable coincidence that, during the eleven or twelve years the dav labom.­system has been in operation, there were 1,144.44 miles of railway constructed, so that we have a return of contract work made up in 189?, and a return of day labour work: made m 1912, and the difference in mileage constructed is exactly one half mile.

Mr. KIRWAN : What about the cost?

T~e SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: I wrll tell you about the cost. I will pre-

[llon. W. T. Paget.

face my remarks by saying ·that for quite a number of years ~.a__;:ery._strong ad.vooate for the const1:.!.1QtiQn--...Qf~j of o~Ho~s ha~~~a~~ot once,.-l=t-tirii~­af~r tune_

Mr. HuxHA:U: And now you hvour day labour.

The' SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: In or-ler, if possible, to check our depart­mental officials' figures and their costs, but

I~n~o~vtv~sla~y~t~h~a~t;!t~h~is~r~-~~-~~tr~e~'ented. to 1ne' ;; hief 'ngmeer--rm, JreVTOUS o rnrons

that:-1""i:''E-':l..::::'a::-s -:2'-'h:!'e:,OO:-:::':~: c e bs day labour. ~~- h ~I kne'!'~_r' e fYi'etm~lo,Yilj}f:---i. __ s,.yiug -.-·~ about .;n;O~gg_nast y:w,r.s, but ...£1;Ilrro;noo_ ~cQiTI~.to._tha..savi_£g that has :oeen· e~-There has been a grea:rcreat on'lrttt-mrt11e part of certain members of the community about the methods adopted by our railway construction officers in Queensland-that they do not use labour­saving appliances.

Mr. GRAYSON: Hear, hear!

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: And the hon. memb"r for Cunningham say10 "Hear, hear !" that they do not use labour­saving appliances. The han. member, of cour,e, knows a great deal more about the Railway Department than I do. Now, let us see exactly what is the result. The use of labour-saving appliances in this branch ac­counts for a portion of the large saving be­tween the cost of contract methods during the years 1881 to 1896 as compared with day labour methods during 1900-1911. We use on day labour works-

Earth ploughs Stump-jump ploughs Grader Delvers Wheel scoops Drag scoops Flat-topped trains with side delivery

ploughs for discharging earth direct from cars.

Spreaders working in conjunction with fiat-topped trains.

Light portable rails and. steel side-tip-ping trucks.

Air rock-drills Concrete mixers Pricstman's grabs Oil ongines J\fotor-cars Traction engines with wagon" Forest devils St0am shovel or navvy-one in use at

Roma steet and another under order. Hopper wagons and baJlagt ploughs Track lifters Steam r:til bender-,at Pinkenba Rail benders of various kinds actuated

by hand . Track drills Electric exploder

It is not always economical to use concrete mixers, but they use them on big works when it is necessary, and motor-cars. (Laughter.) Han. members laugh, but when the con­struction of the line in the West was started., I saw it would be economical to buy not only one, but, if necessary, two of the best motor· cars we could get for the superintending of surveys and for the superintendent engineer

Supply. [25 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 1291

to get. quickly from one section to another. That IS why we purchased the motor-cars. So y~u se0 that, when the hon. member for Cunnmgham would persist in saying that he kn_ew we ,used· no labour-saving appliances, I thmk I nave proved to the satisfaction of the hon. member that we are using them.

Mr. GRAYSON: You misunderstood me. The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS:

I hope the hon. member for Cunningham will not desire that we shall use the electric exploder on him. (Laughter.} M~. RYAN: He is more likely to use it on

you. (Laughter.) . The. SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Then 1t would be a misfire. (Laughter.) In connection with this information, one hears a very gr<;at deal about the very heavy steam navV!es and other machines that are used, say, on the Canadian-Pacific Railway. They are used en such works where th.ere are 1,000,000 cubic yards of spoil to shlft-whe:e they have practically to shift ~ moun~am. It would not be economical m. certam of our railway works to use ap­pha?ces of that kind; besides, a lot of our cuttmgs are not broad enough to allow them to be used. So that the man in the st_reet . who criticises the work of the en­gr?eenng department does not know any­!hmg about it, and he speaks only from Ignorance.

Mr. RYAN: You do not apply that to the hon, member for Cunningham. (Laughter.)

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS· No; .I sai_d "the man· in the street." I a,;, I handmg m for the information of

t e re En meer o a ar wanJmili b~ under con rae e ween 188l _an£C

1893"- ------- . The total expenditure was £5 491 720

the mileage 1,144.94, and the ~ver~ age cost per mile £4,796.

This return includes all railways built between 1881 and 1896 in the Southern _:d~;:ision, a few 'in the Central drvlsiOn, but none in the ~o~t~ern division, as the Central drvrswn was only taken over by the then chief engineer in 1887 and the Northern division in 1892. '

A return has been prepared by me of ap ra~lways b~ilt ~y day labour smce rts mceptron m 1900 up to 1911.

The total expenditure was £3 413 249 the mileage 1,144.59, and the ~ver~ age cost per mile £2,982.

OPPOSITION ME)lBERS : Hear, hear !

. The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: The fact that the mileage in both re­

turns are practically the same is . I(!erely .. a coincidence.

Th1s ::eturn ~~ailways bmlt throughout the State during

Jl!,<~.§a.:years. The total "cti1l';::e_r_e_n_ce_..,i_n_e_x_p_e_n_d""'iture is -~2,078,~~::!:!~ur of day labour.

OPPosi~EMBERs: Hear;·h~ Mr. KIRWAN: I hope the Liberals in the

.Federal Parliament will read this.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: The averl!-ge. cost per mile is £1,814

per mrle m favour of day labour. OPPOSITION MEMBERS : Hear, hear !

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: In case hon. members should think that the statements are not prepared on all­fours-! have no time to read all the head­ings-they will find as a matter of fact that in the da'7-labour statement is in­cluded land and resumption surveys, and for some reason that is not included in the contract return.

Mr. HUXHAM: \Yhat wou~J that amount to?

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: It would amount to a good sum.

Mr. FOLEY: It is a .Dity you did not give the wages paid in each case.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: I cannot possibly read through all this return.

The difference between the contract and day labour cost is increased when it is considered that-

(a) Between 1881 and 1896 a considerable mileage was laid with lighter rails than was the case in the day-labour period.

(b) The day-labour return includes a large mileage in the Northern divi­sion, where labour and material are more costly than in the Southern and Central divisions, and where the climate militates against the best work being got out of the men.

(c) Between 1881 and 1896 timber for bridges and sleepers was more plenti­ful, and a more suitable class of labour for railway work was ob­tainable than between 1900·1911.

(d) Bridges built in the contract peJ.:iod were for 8-ton axle loads only, whilst nearly all those built in the day-labour period are for 12-ton axle loads, to provide additional strength for heavy rolling-stock.

(e) The wages rates generally were higher in the day-labour period than in the contract, and the prices for explosives, cement, etc., etc., has largely increased.

(f) A greater number of sleeper_s per mile were nsed in the day-labour period than in the contract, in the Southern division.

For the purpose of further compari­son, I have taken the railways built in the Southern division only by contract, and compared them with those built by day labour in the same divi<.ion. I find that-

The total expenditure by contract was £5,185,144, the mileage 1,062.02, and the average cost per mile £4,882 .

The total expenditure by day labour wa.s £1,673,653, the mileage 567.89, and the average cost per mile £2,947 .

As a further comparison, I have taken those railways built by contract and day labour in the same counky, and fiiJd that-

The total expenditure by contract ,vas £1,025,452, the mileage 241.09, and the average cost per mile £4,253.

The total expenditure by day labour was £599,630, the mileage 205.74, and. the average cost per mile £2,914.

Summarising these figures, I find that­(a) Comparing all lines shown in return

as being built by contract with all

Hon. W .. T- Paget.]

1292 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

those shown as being built by day labour, the Lesult is £1,814 per mile in favour of day labour.

(b) Compa:ring those built by contract in the Southern division with those built by day labour in the same division, the result is £1,935 per mile in favour of day labour ..

(c) Comparing lines built by contract "ith those built in similar country by day labour, the result is £1,339 per mile in favour of day labour.

prepare a table (the books in my office do not contain the i!lformation for reason mentioned in clause 3) showing the cost of lines built by contract throughout the State for, say, twenty years prior to the com­mencement of the day-labour sys­tem, and comparing the cost per mile with my return of the day­labour cost per mile during 1900· 1911, the accuracy of which returp: I would invite him to check. Th1s comparison would largely settle. the question as the great expend1ture and mil~age dealt with in both cases would make the average result fairly equitable.

Taking the saving at £1,000 only per mile, and ignoring the facts men­tioned in clause 9, the total saving effected through having built the lines by day labour instead of at the contract rates existing in 1881-1896 would be £1,144.,590.

These comparisons between day labour and contract could be enlarged and great<;lr accuracy obtained if the chief accountant were instructed to

Land and surveys have not been in­cluded in the statement of contract cost. I have excluded them from the dav-labour statement for the purpose of making comparison. I have also converted the miles and chains in the day-labour statem<;nt to miles and decimals, to ag1;ee w1th. the contract statement.

Ql:EENSLA:>~D RAILWAYS.

SwnW/at'y.-RETURN SHOWING C'OS1' Ol' ltAILWAY':o BL'"ILT BY THE THK:-i" CIIIEJ<' ENGJNElt~R :BETWBEN 1881 AND 1896;.

UNDEit 00NTRAG'l' S1'.'1'E~f AND 'l'H0~1g BUILT BY DAY-LABO'C"R SYSTEM BETWEEN 1900 AND 1911.

Railway. I :l!Iles.l' l~~~l L~~~k MP1_e1re. Ill . I I~~!~~~~t, I Per

and Railway. ~files. I and )!ile. I Surve, s . .1 ! Surveys. r

-----1--~---1--i --, 1--CO~TRAOT. ,. £ £

1 DAY LABOUR. £ £

Bundaberg-)11. Perry ... 1 f.S·Oo 308.801 4,668 Kerang-Cnolangatta .•. 20·30 126,397 6,226 l\llaryborough-G.nnpie ... I ()! ·oo 326,~311 5,358 Kilkivan-Coolabunia 55·29 14G,618 2,652 IpswVli-Dugand~n ... 1 ::4 95 180,988 3,748 Mirani-Cattle Creek ... 9'27 29,815 3,216 Croydon June ion-Bnn- [ 52·4~ 2!8.930 4,176 Esk-Colinton (Kannan- 16·!0 43,244 2,68&-

daberg gur) Brisbane Ya!Icy Jnnc- .:J0·96 152,113 3,714 }Iareebn-Atb~rton

tion-F.sk Hedbank and .Eun-Beenl<Jigh - S•ulhport 29·!8 231,915 7,948 damba Loops I

a.nd Nt.n'ang Degilbo-Vretheron ... Yeei·nn~p!lly- Beenloigh 46·66 220,74~ I 4,731 Wetberon-Gayndah ..

and neaudPsert •)8

.4

, Caboolture-\"\..-oodford Kilkivan Jnnotion-Kil- ~ > 178,224 · 6.741 New Zealand Gully-kiv~m 1 Yeppoon

Pengarry Junction. J 28'28 101,527 3,590 Laidley Creek )lranch

Is~r~~~~~~~~~~·Cordalba ) 18·19 Gladstone Boyne Nortbgatc Junction-; 100·25 6~~:m ~;~;~ At~~~:J;,_Evelyn

Gympie I r_rolga-Johnstone River ].:iungar .Tunction-\iV~oo- 45·3~) 177,114 3,908 Finch Hatton Exten-

woonglt (Degilbo) 1

sion Albert-Cleye~anrl .. . 20·Ci 1.-:1,432 6.510 Port Alma Railway ... Bundabeu-Rosednle ... I 32·56 151,987 4,668 Kingaroy-Nanango ... :Brisbane-Sandgate and 13·75 87,824 8,387 Langdon l~xtension

Racecourse Rosewood-Marburg Stanley Street Oorinda 6·50 50,179 1 8,643 Kannangur-Biackbutt Rockh»mplon (SorthJ- ~8·13 132,106 4,S9B (llenarkin)

}Jmn Va.rk Hnghenden-&·chmond Dalby-r!mrleville .. 329·2G 1,294,421 3,931 Warwiek-Thtme ... Warwick-W:lllangarra 6~·2~ 522,726 7,891 Dalby-O>tttle C,·eek .•. Warwick-Killarney 26·44 104,779 3,963 '!'bane-Inglewood Wyrremn-Pittswrn·th . 16·24 52:,955 3,260 Richmond-Julia Creel<: Saltern-Longreach 54·79 17±,470 3,18-:L Jericho-Bl<tckall ...

Inglewood - Goondi­windi

21•27 6"00

7·29 52•91

31•24 19•30 6•63

I 15•99 I

15•751 ]•20 8 9..',

27•94

70•31 24•63 23 42 48'37 90•70 71•19 52·16

51,723 15,107

38,574 40,323 s:J,o3s 7i,!5J:7

18,255 226,55.

212.129 89,320 27,87!}

76,327 51,603 5,206

41,670 189,907

104,497 79.931 26,746

119.933 196,101 12t:!.913

97,148

1 Julia Creek-Cloncurry 82•94 1:68,037 1

'I Clermont-Blair Athol 11·37 37,480 I

G d .. d. 1· 1 a 5'·40 1(18,271 1 oon_ I Win 1- a woo if

I Kingtithorpe - Goom- 20·85 70,7U5 I

2,432 :J,568

1,800 3,620 4,707 3,872

2,504· 4,282

6,79l 4,628 4,204

4,773,

N~~ 5.008 6,797

1,486 3,246 1,142. 2,479 2,162 1.811 1,862

3,232 3,296 1.990 3,391

bung&e

1

11

Cloncurry-Mt. El'iott 72·35 208,0€8 2,876

I

Wanvick-:l!atyvale ... 18·70 G8,b48 I 3,682 Talwood-.lloome 38 110 90,858 2,391

Pittsworth-::VIIllmerran I 26·8) 75,2J2 1 2,802''

II

Dalby-Tara ... ... I 52 71 137,925 1 2,617

--~----~!.144:94 £5,491,720 -£4,oo --T~-~ 11,141,---=;-i £3:413.249 1 £2:982

Difference in favour of Day Labour = £1,814 per mile.

[Hon. W. T. Paget.

Name of Line. Length ot Line.

m. chs. Nerang to Coolangatta 20 24 Kilkivan to Coolabnnia 55 23 Mirani to Cattle Creek 9 22 Esk towards Co linton... ... 16 8 Mareeba to Atherton ... ... 21 21 Hughenden to RJChmond .. . 70 25 Warwick to Thane ... ... 24 50 Redb:ink andBnndambaLoops 6 o Degilbo to Wetheron ... ... 21 34 Dalby to Cattle Creek ... ... 23 34 Thane to Inglewood ... ... 48 30 Wetheron to Gayndah 11 11 Richmond to Julia Creek 90 55 Jericho to Blacka!l .. . 71 15 Inglewood to Goondiwintli 52 13 Julia Creek to Cloncurry 82 75 Caboolture to Woodford ... 17 51 New Zealand Gully to Yeppoon 20 2 Clermont to Blair Athol 11 30 Goondiwindi to Tal wood ... 54 32 Laidley Creek Bra ncb .. . 7 23 Kingsthorpe to Goombungee 20 68 Gladstone to Boyne Valley Ext. 52 73 Atherton to Evelyn ... dl 19 Tolga to Johnstone River 19 24 Cloncurry to Mt. Elliott 72 28 Finch Hatton Extension ... 6 50 Warwick to Mary vale 18 55 Talwood to Moonis 38 o Dalby to Tara ... 52 57 Port Alma R~ilw"y ... 15 '79 Pittsworth to Milmerran 26 68 Kingaroy to Nanango ... ... 15 60 Langdon Extension . .. 1 16 Rosewood to Mar burg'... 8 74 Kannangur to Blackbutt 27 75

1,144 44

DA.Y LA.:i30UR WORKS.

STATEMENT SHOWING ACTUAL CosT OF LINES CoNSTRUCTED, YEARS 1900 TO 191i.

PEKMANENT I LAND AND CoNSTRUC'l'ION. ! WAY R~<:SUilPT·ON

MATERIAL. !SUR.Vl!:YS.

TRIAL AND WoRKING I!'IURVEYS.

DRAF-rJNG CHARGES. H "AD O''"'~f'Jl' CJIARo~s I LoAN ::YLuN" G" -s, 1'oT · ·

" '"·- "' ' ,T>;NANC>e. ~u" a.L.

Weig:ht ol

Rails per Yd.

Axle Load.

Cost. Cost per

VIii e. Cost.

Cost per

Mile. Cost.

Cost per

Mile. Cost.

Cost per

Mile. Cost.

Cost per

Mile.

COMMIM~

SIONER'S OFFICi!:.

Cost Oost.l per

Mile.

cnn:J! ENGINK}i;R.'S

OFFICE.

Cost Cost. I per

Mile.

lb. j Tons. £ £ £ £ £ £ £ £ £ £ £ £ £ £ 6! 12 104,677 5,156 18,860 929 2,392 llS 5,343 263 917 45 201 10 457 23

41l:&42 s no,eo7 ~.ooo 32,3ti2 sse 1,Bso 25 3.515 63 1,449 20 144 2 476 9 4lj: 8 23,558 2,541 4,976 537 507 56 1,190 128 127 14 56 6 21 2 42 8 32,112 1,994 10,463 650 3,060 190 1,896 118 353 22 13 1 72 4

4H&42 12 35,983 1,692 14,998 705 836 39 1,586 75 333 16 12 1 76 3 4H 8 67,052 954 34,758 494 10s 2 4,064 ss 933 13 30 1 154 2 61 12 53,930 2,190 24,766 1,006 3,401 138 4,809 196 746 30 55 2 144 6 42 8 11,422 1,904 3,530 588 396 66 781 130 122 20 4 1 35 6 4H s 28,612 1,335 8,944 418 9 ... 3,426 160 2>3 11 12 1 30 1 4H s 15,425 658 10,940 467 l ,133 48 2,193 94 130 6 10 1 32 1 42 12 83,386 1, 723 35,267 729 1,093 23 4,679 97 393 8 26 1 188 4 4H 8 32,976 2,960 6,438 578 203 18 919 82 290 26 6 1 202 18

42 12 127,424 1.404 67,915 749 453 5 2,078 23 4il 5 21 1 270 3 42 12 73,507 1,032 53,602 753 480 7 2,650 37 345 5 25 1 253 4 42 12 55,279 1,060 39,357 755 772 15 1,710 33 4.!5 9 76 l 151 3 42 12 199,079 2,400 613.662 804 505 6 1,851 22 419 5 205 2 295 4 61 12 6e,osr, 3.519 1&,053 1.023 2.256 128 2,947 167 331 19 5 1 87 5 42 13 61,063 3,049 15,178 758 2.901 148 1,703 85 406 20 6 1 151 8 43 12 28,338 2,19:! 8,596 756 305 27 931 82 83 7 11 1 166 15 42 12 63,952 1,175 40,649 747 808 15 3,600 66 199 4 28 1 610 ll. 42 12 12,056 1.653 5,157 740 szz 113 1,258 112 90 I 12 21 4 289 40 42 I 13 54,641 2.620 13,914 667 4,645 223 2,436 1!7 252 12 96 5 54·6 2C 61 12 163,981 3,099 60,20•1 1,138 3,198 60 4,082 77 837 16 170 3 3±6 7 61 12 174.574 5,588 34,063 1,090 3,068 98 3,515 113 4481 14 2~9 8 706 23 42 12 71,203 3,689 16,4!7 851 1,892 98 3,991 206 304 16 ;;4 3 666 34 42 8 153..658 2,123 51,371 710 161 2 4,314 60 ~01 4 22 1 391 5 42 12 21.378 3,228 5,995 906 634 96 983 148 80 12 54 8 245 37 42 54,412 2,912 13,178 705 5,334 287 1,509 82 ~40 13 82 4 370 20 42 62,830 1,653 26,516 ens 2,589 68 138 4 107 3 526 14 42 98,061 1,860 :;6,704 6G6 20 3,703 70 297 6 84 2 726 14 61 59,253 3,7oe. 16.~18 l,Ol4l 44 2,845 178 161

1 10 2:J5 14 1so 11

42 55;264 2,058 18,454 687 I 135 :1.1~9 119 10:; 1 4 54 2 294 Jl 42 39,561 2,512 li,l33 707 300 1,803 114 175 i 11 53 J 366 23 42 3,923 3,269 1, !64 970 51 911 759 14 12 ... 16 13 42 35.439 3,973 7,057 791 5U 1,180 132 93 10 46 5 271 30 61 157,867 5,650 29,492 1,055 96 5,149 184 461 17 190 7 682 25

------- ----2,488,519 2,174, 863,656

1 755 60,527 53 ~5,358 83 12,719 11 2,439 2 10,490 I 9

Cost. Cost I I Gro's • p~r Gross f'ost Oost· M1le. per

Mile.

£ £ 1,285 63 1,580 29 1,077 116

231 14 321 15

1,570 22 310 13 294 49 7.43 35 209 9 673 H 411 37

1,181 1,8W 1,377 2 5·>6

'743 ~86

16 35 17

li3 37 25

2,833 52 :i36 46

l ~56 f-0 1',.16 Hl 2:109 68

676 35 2,:125

127 566 741

2,053 1{.G)

1,(J63 310 89

1,764 1,215

a:J 10 30 19 39 18 40 21)

45

35,426 I 31

£ 13J.,l32 151,513 31,512 48,200 54,145

108,669 88,161 1H,584 42,009 30,072

125,705 41,44,5

198,632 132,043 99,630

270,393 88,241 82,211 3U16

112.679 20,835 77,786

23.3,834 218.712 ' 95,193

212,54~3 29.490 75.74-1 9:l,41'1

142,696 79,874 82 055 58:125

6,178 50,679

197,748

3,569,134

£ 6,607 2,740 3,400 2.993 2.546 1,546 3.581 2,764 1,961 1,284 2,599 3,720 2,190 1,355 1.910 3,200 5,005 4.106 3,405 2,071 ~.789 3,730 4,419 7,002 4,93~ ~.938 4;4ti5 4,053 "4'9 2~707 4,095 3,056 3,690 5,148 5,681 7,0SO

3,118

l '?

,...., "" en m i:>j >,;

~ g i:>j ~

..:..,

l '?

...., "" <0 0>

1294 ·Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

For the purpose of comparison, I find that tho total expenditure for railways in the Southern- division on contract was £5,185,144; mileage, 1,062.02 miles; average

<;ost per mile, £4,882. Total expenditure by· oay labour, £1,673,653; mileag<>, 567.89; average cost" per mile, £2,947.

THR COS'l' OF AI .. L THE RAILWAYS BUli,T BY 00N'rRAC1' IN THE SOUTHERN DIVISION BETWEl';N 1891 AND WITH TII.E Cmrr OF ALL RAILWAYS IN 'fHE SOUTHI<JRN DIYISTON BUILT BY DAY LABOUR :BETWEEN 1900 A 'D 1901.

' I To!"! Cost, Totnl Cost.,

RRilway. I }Hies. LGss L:.md Per Railway. Miles. Less Land Per and Mile. and mile.

Surveys. Surveys.

--- ·--- -CONTRACT. £ £ DAY LABOUR. £ £

Bunclaberg-3It. Perry . 66'0J 308,081 4,668 Nerang-Coolangatta .. , 20'30 126,397 6,2i6 Maryborough-Gympie. 61'00 326,8361 5,358 Kilkivan*Coolabunia ... 55•29 146,618 2,652 Ipswich~Dugnndan 34'95 130,986 3,748 E•k-Colinton (K>tnnan- 16'10 43,244 2,68() Croydon Junction-Bun- 52•42 218.930 4,176 gnr)

daberg Red bank and Bun~ 6•00 15,407 2,568 Beenleigh-Sonthport and 29'18 231,915 7,948 damba Loop

Nerang Degilbo- VI' etheron ... 21'43 38,574 1,800 Yeerongpilly- Beenleigh 46'66 220,744 4.731 Wetberon-Gayndah 11'14 ' 40,323 3,620

and Beaudesert Caboolture-Woodrord 17•64 83,038 4.707 KilkivRn Junction- Kil- 26'4,4. 178,224 6,741 Laidley Creek Brauch 7·29 18,255 2,504

kivan Kingaroy-Nanango ... 15•75 51.603 3,276 Pengany Junction- 28 28 101,527 3,590 Rosewood-Marburg 8'92 44,670 5,008

Crow's :'<est I Kannangur- :!nackbutt 27•94 189,907 6,797 Isis Junction- Cord alba 18'90 57,177 3,025 (Benarkin) Nm•thgnte Junction- 100'25 676,194 6,745 Warwick-Thane ... 24•63 79951 3,246

Gsmpie Da1by-Cattle Creek 23•42 26.746 1,142 Mungar Junction-Woo- 45'35 177,114 3,906 Thane-Inglewood 48-~<7 119.933 I 2,479

woong< (Degilbo) Inglewood-Goondiwindi, 52•16 97,148 1,862 Albert~ Cleveland ... 20'65 134,432 6,510 Goondiwindi-Talwood I 54•40 108,271 1,990 Bundaberg-Roseda1e 32•56 151,987 4.668 Kingschorpe-Goombnn- 20'85 70.705 3,391 Brisbane-Sandgate and 13'75 87,824 6,337 gee

Racecourse Warwiek-3faryvale ... 18'70 63,848 3,682 Stanley Street-Corinda 6'50 56,179 8,~43 Ta1wood-}1oonie ... 38'00 90,858 2,391 Da1by-CIHtrleville ... 329'25 1,294,421 3,931 Dal\Jy-Tar" ... 52•71 137,925 2,617 "\Varwick~ \;,.r~ aliangarra 66'24 522,726 7,891 Pittsworth-Milmerran 26•85 75,232 2,802 'V\1al'WiC'k-Ki1larney 26'4t 104,779 3,963 Wyreema-Pittsworth ::· 16'2-1 52,955 3,260 Brif>bane Valley June- 40'96 152,113 3,714

tion~Esk

11002-:o2 ---- --- --- ---- ---Totals ... £3,185,144 £4,882• Totals "' . .. 567'89 £1,673,653 £2,917 t

* Average cost per mile Contract. t Average cost per mile Day Labour.

Difference in favour of Day Labour=£1,905 per mile.

There is a table here picking out some comparisons of lines built by contract and by day labour in the same country.

Mr. LENNON: That is the only fair test.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS:

OmrPARlSON BETWREN LINJ~S BUILT BY OONTR.A.cr AND BY DAY LABOUR IN THE SAMK COUNTRY.

Total Cost,

Railway. Miles. Per Railway, 11iles. Less Land Per :Mile. and liile.

Surveys. Surveys.

CONTRAC'r. DAY LABOUR. £ £ £ £

Brisbane Valley June- 40·98 152,113 3,714 Esk-Kannangur 16•10 43,244 2,686 tion-E~k

Beenleigh-Sonthport and 29·18 231,915 7,94B Nerang-Coolangat.ta ... 20•30 126,397 6,226 Nerang

:l\:tunigar Junetion -De- 45·35 177,114 3,906 Degilbo-Gayndah 32'57 78,897 2,422 gllbo

N. Rock hampton~ Emu 28·13 132,106 4,696 New Zealand Gully- 20•03 77,547 3,873 Park Yeppoon

26•44 104,779 3,963 Warwick-)Iaryva1e B,7ll 16-2t 52.955 3,260 Pittsworth-~'Iilmerran 2.802 54·79 174,470 3,184 Jericho-Blackall 1,811

Totals Totals ?..05•74 £599,630 I

£Z,9l4t

*Average cost per mile Contract. t Average cost per mile Day Labour. Difference in favour of Day Labour=£1,339 per mile,

I wiil point out something else directly. Take, for instance, the line from the Bris·

bane Valley Junction to Esk, 40 miles, •and the line from Esk to Kannangur. Everyone

[Han. W. T. Paget.

SUPERVISION. CUARING. EARTHWORKS.

' QUEENSLAND RAILWAYS.

DETAILS OF COST AND RATE PER -~_I~, YEARS 1881 TO 1896,

LEVEL CROSSINGS AND ROAD DIVERSIONS.

I

- FEKCING. I BRIDGES AND DRAINS,

Railway. Mileage.------------ I ~-----------·-------!---- -T-ot_a_J_c_os-·t_.

1_c_o_st_p_e_r_ :.1_1. _T_o_ta_l_c_o_st_._

1

_c_o_s_t_p_er_M_l. -·T-o·-·t_a_I·C--os_t_. -:-C_o_s_t __ ·_ Ml.-1--T-ot_-a_J_c_os_t __ · ci-C-os_t_p_e•_· M_l. -~tal c::t·-1 ~·-t_v_e_r_Ml -~~-tal~C~s~--~ Cost per llfl.

Dalbv to Charleville ...

Warwick to Wallangarra

Bundaberg to Mount Perry ...

Maryborough to Gympie

Ipswich to Dugandan ... ...

Croydon Junction to Bundaberg ...

Warwick to Killarney

Brisbane Valley Junction to E•k ...

Beenleigh to South port and Nerang

·I ... i

Miles. £ a. d. £ s. d. £ •· cl. £ B. cl. £ s. . J £ s. cl. £ s. d. £ s. 1l. £ a. d. £ s. cl, 1 £ s. d. £ a. d.

329'25

66'24

66•00

61'00

34'95

52'42

26'44

40'96

41,183 2 7 125 1 7 23,096 17 9 70 3 0 168,192 9 3 510 16 8

16,172 0 3 244 2 10 7,660 5 7 115 12 11 199,858 12 1 3,017 3 9

13,955 8 5 211 8 11 4,727 0 4 71 12 7 91,584 3 3 1,.133 1 10

17,672 2 11

5,631 19 4

11,422 8 5

5,496 14 11

7,223 2 2

289 14 2

161 2 7

217 18 0

207 17 11

176 6 11

69 17 8

84 2 3

49 9 5

51 4 7

51,602 11 6 ' 845 18 10

28,566 5 6 817 7 0

26,453 6 10 50,:1 12 10

16,82·:1 7 10 636 6 7

2·1,515 12 8 598 10 6

29'18 10,493 5 3 359 12 1

4,263 0 2

2,939 12 0

2,593 7 11

1,354 11 6

3,503 12 2

3,956 18 7

85 10 9

135 12 1 45,907 6 4 1,573 4 ll

8,953 18 5

5,485 9 7

2,239 8 6

7,316 9 11

·1,627 1-1 8

3,652 3 2

5,866 10 6

2,950 1 7

27 3 10

82 16 3

33 18 9

119 18 10

1a2 s a

69 l:l 5

221 17 7

72 0 6

133 3 7

86,030 ·! 4 '261 5 10

20,114 2 2 303 13 1

11,094 18 5 ]68 2 1

16,056 19 ll

6,;!61 7 3

12,650 2 5

7,447 12 9

10,810 9 2

263 4 i

281 13 7

263 18 8

6.923 18 6 237 5 8

200,499 15 3 603 19 2

103,660 13 4 1,564 18 6

51,516 ]] 1 780 11 1

83,5il H o 1,370 0 7

18,618 13 0 532 H 5

60,600 8 10 1,156 1 2

5 I 15,014 11 1 567 17

S1'AT!Ol'i WORK.

Total Cost. Cost per Ml. Total Cost. Cost per Ml.

£ •. d. £ •. d. £ 8. cl- £ 8. d.

673,332 Ii o 2,o15 1 o I 6o,29o s s Js3 2 a

130,742 17 7 1,973 15 6 22,291 11 5 3:J6 10 7

103,503 15 9 1,568 4 9 21,606 ·i 9 327 7 4

98,402 12 2 1,613 3 2

40,317 10 7 1,411 1 u

81,857 u 6 1,561 11 5

40,718 6 4 1,5<40 0 6

60,186 2 8 1,469 7 9

41,652 8 10

H,233 l:i 10

18,910 0 2

11,535 2 3

16,597 V 11

682 16 7

·407 6 5

360 H 10

436 5 7

405 4 3

·44,981 2 6 1,541 10 1 14,602 14 4 500 8 8

TUNNEV:;, MH:iC.KLLANEOUS, ! ToTAL<::.

-----:-----1-------.,.---- ------,--·--·---Total Cost. r Co8t per 1\Il. Total Cost, Cost per Ml. Total Cost. 1 Co;t t•)fl.

1------:-------1------~

£ s. d. £ s, d. £ '· ll. £ s. d. £ s. ll. 1 £ s. d.

13,726 13 ]0 207 6

2,569 12 u 88 1 3

3:l,841 8 8

3,013 18 0

·:1,852 11 4

6,298 5 6

586 18 10

791 1 ]()

830 7 9

99 15 0

45 10 0

73 10 6

103 5 0

16 15 11

15 1 10

19 H 3

20 9 10

10 H 6

1,29·1,420 15 813,931 8 '

522,726 3 10 7,891 7 11

308,080 10 10 4,667 17 9

326,836 4 11 5,357 19 5

130,985 17 0 ' 3,7:17 16 1

218,93o o 1 I ·:1,176 9 ,

104,779 1 2 3,962 18 0

152,112 19 2 3,il3 H 0

231,9H 17 ·:1 7,9·17 U 6

Yeerongpilly to Beenlelgh and Beaudesert 46'66 9,985 5 6 214 0 0 3,496 6 5 74 18 8 39,792 2 3 852 16 2 8,532 19 4 182 17 6 12,880 18 6 276 1 2

25,487 1 1 622 4 10

98,222 6 8 3,366 1 8

55,930 4 3 1,198 13 6

55,718 3 5 2,107 6 11

11,937 18 1 422 2 8

62,667 19 0 1,343 1 7 20,712 4 3 572 9 9

313 0 0

/<.16 2 3 15 19 10 2~0,7·t4 1 V 4,730 18 2

Kilki van Junction to Kilklvan

Pengarry Juuct.lou to Crow's Nest ...

Wyreema to Pittsworth

Isis Junction to Cordalba

Northgate Junction to Gym pie

Mungar Junction to Woowoonga ...

Albcrt to Cleveland

Bundaberg to Rosedale

Brisbane to Sandgate and Racecourse

Stauley Street to Corluda

Rockhampton to Emu Park ...

Sal tern to Longreac h ...

Gran cl total ...

: I . I

26·44 I 7,os9 9 6 268 2 9 3,57s 15 9 135 7 1

28•28 4,011 6 0 141 16 10 2,598 0 3

16'24

18'90

100•25

45'35

1,852 4 3

2,065 8 4

29,196 6 7

8,967 19 10

1H 0 0

109 5 8

908 4· 0

1,331 7 3

291 4 8 I 21,153 s o I

197 15 0 3,151 7 3

5,457 5 0 26·1 5 6 1,067 18 5

32•56 8,505 1 3 261 .j, 3 1,412 16 5

13'75 :!,290 13 3 239 6 0 812 19 5

91 17 4

56 0 0

70 8 10

211 0 I

69 0 10

51 14 4

43 7 10

59 2 6

32,017 3 10 1,210 18 9 1,'449 13 2

17,268 13 3 610 12 7 2,747 1 4

9,756 3 9 600 0 0

10,579 6 5 539 15 0

887 6 4

1,221 9 10

8,D22 2 o

i5:5 5 10

51 16 7 6,937 8 6 262 7 8

97 2 9 6,152 18 8 217 11 5

55 0 0

6:1 12 7

ss 19 10

16 13 2

-t,312 ·1 10

3,89·.1 9 7

21,708 8 lJ

6,89> 1 1

266 0 0

206 1 2

2l6 10 7

152 0 -1

208,409 18 7 2,078 18 0

55,453 3 0 1,222 15 8

33,865 0 0 l,fl:J9 19 0 2,232 9 7 108 2 3 5,993 0 3 290 4 4

24,737 14 11 759 15 2 1,191 2 4 36 ]] 8 5,915 17 3 181 13 10

16,746 18 2 1,217 19 2 2,701 12 8 196 9 8 4,471 8 7 325 3 9

5,286 0 10 325 0 0

·!,959 8 1 262 8 0

174,652 18 9 1,742 3 4

32,924 3 4 726 0 0

39,810 14 4 1,927 17 7

54,388 7 9 1,670 8 1

13,919 9 5 1,012 6 6

44,312 0 2 1,675 18 11 26,375 9 8 997 ]] 2

45,f94 19 11 1,619 6 10 10,400 19 4 367 15 9

24,351 3 ·:1 1,499 0 0 5,466 17 1

25,262 1 7 1,336 12 4 7,720 15 11

171,068 2 11 1,706 8 4 ! 3-1,125_17 3

59,533 19 7 1,312 15 4 9,067 16 2

337 0 0

408 10 2

340 8 10

199 19 0

29,230 7 2 1,415 10 3 16,592 0 7 803 9 9

so,679 12 9 1,556 10 o I 4,117 18 1 12s 9 5

25,544 3 11 1,857 15 3 I 16,942 2 4 1,232 3 1

58 w 1

2,150 19 6 156 8 8

746 2 3

615 0 7

134 9 10

143 0 2

1,076 19 11

366 10 1

182 14 9

1,038 2 3

1,243 7 6

2s 4 4 178,224 6 a 6,740 H z

21 10 0

8 0 0

7 11 ·:1

10 14 10

8 1 8

8 17 0

31 17 8

90 8 7

101,526 17 5 3,590 1 2

57,177 7 21 676,194 6 11

177,114 6 2

3,260 0 0

3,025 5 1

6,745 1 7

3,905 10 0

134,431 10 1 6,510 0 0

151,986 13 2 4,667 17 11

87,823 14 9 6,387 3 7

6'50 3,777 2 11 581 2 0 1,954 5 3 ' 300 13 1 581 13 9 89 9 9 13,466 0 ll 2,071 13 11 797 8 3 122 ]:J 9 2,087 4 1 322 12 11 4,258 6 0 655 2 6 18,716 15 7 2,879 10 1 7,738 3 1 1,190 9 8 2,792 5 9 429 11 8 56,179 5 7 8,642 19 4

.. 28•]3 I 6,247 11 9 i 222 1 7 1,346 6 0 47 17 8 25,862 7 11 919 7 10 4,:314 4 8 153 7 6 6,340 15 I) l 225 8 0 37,217 6 5 1,323 0 10 39,452 5 1 11,402 10 2 11,204 \0 9 398 6 1 ... ... 120 8 4 4 5 6 132,105 16 5 4,696 5 2

...

1

. 54·79 9.773 16 31

178 0 0 1,395 0 0 2., 0 0 17,268 5 0 315 0 0 1,252 8 2 23 0 0 15,027 5 4 , 275 0 0 31,582 18 1 576 0 0 86,684 4 0 11.581 0 0 11,341 0 9 207 0 0 ... ... 145 8 7 4 0 0 174,470 6 2 3,184 0 0

------~-------l---·---l-----l-----l-----l-----l----+l-----1------l----l----l------------------------1------1------.. , 1,144•94 229,469 14 8 I 200 8 5 96,929 17 11 I 84 13 2 1,161,727 13 3 1,014 13 3 82,041 12 3 71 13 2 280,215 16 2 244 14 10 1,179,777 13 1 1,030 8 6 1,966,340 3 1 [1,717 8 4 409,527 11 2 357 13 8 27,119 15 10 23 13 9 58,570 7 8 51 3 2 J,491,720 5 1 4,796 10 3

Supply. (25 SEPTEMBER, Supply. 1295

will admit that the second section was just as difficult to build as the first. The first section cost £152,113, or £3,714 per mile. The ·'·econd section, 16 mile,, by day labour cost £43,244, or £2,686 per mile. Then there is th<e Southport to ::"f<'Ja,,g line and the N<erang to Coolangatta lin<e, also the lin., from Mungar to Degilbo, built by contract and the line from Degilbo, built by day labour. They will all be found in this table. Them is a total of 241 miles built by con­tract a~ .an averal:l"e co_st of £4,253 per mile, as agamst 205 mrles m round figures built by dav labour at a cost of £2,914, showing a differenc-e in favour of day lcbour of £1,339 per mile.

OPPOSITION MEMBERS : Hear, hear ! Mr. LENNON: That is quit<'! ·an appreciable

difference.

Mr. KIRWAN: If you coukl get a table showing the cost of maintenance on those two classes of lin<es it :would be int<eresting.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: In reply to the hon. member for Brisbane, who knows what he is talking about, I may say that maintenance is inchcded in the day labour figures to a certain extent. The engin<ering department has to maintain the line for four months until it is hand"d over to the traffic department. And even that is included. I have no hesitation in saying at all that the line3 that are bt·ing built by our own staff cost less for mainwnanc., than those built by eontract.

OPPOSITION ME'•IBERS : Hear, hear !

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: I have been in the depart>n<ent now for some four years. and I ha.ve taken a very great interett in th(· work of construction, as well as in ths other work, and I have alwRys made the closest inquiry intQ it. I have made it my business, so far as I poe,ibly could, to travd round with the Chief Engi­neer or some other officN on construction work to se<e how tbey are doing and I have examined their accounts. Their accounts are kPpt in .as perfect a state as it is possible for them to be k<ept, and still I sa:' that I b<eli'!We it is possibl<e for us to effect further economies.

Mr. RYAN: You are making your col­leaguDa quite anxious.

TL, SECRETAUY FOR RAILWAYS: As to "hetber hon. m<embers would lik<e me to call for one or two contracb to buil-d railways--

OPPOSITION :i\;fE}fBERS : No, no !

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: If hon. members would. -like me to call for contmcts for thB far \Ycstern Railw.<Y or North Coast Railwav in order to checlr the figures that I haYe "presented to-day, which haYo be8n prepared by th" re-,ponsible of­ficers of t'1e d<epartm<'nt--

:\·h. LENNOX: \VB don't ask for that at .all.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: If .a.' body challengt-S th-:·'e figur<es then l-et tlkm remember 1hat thr" m·e the stacvnents of- r+ •ponsible <expert offic·-n·s. (H<e:u, hear !) Th<::y :ore the c-+ab,m€nts and work of men ·who have their reputations to conFcrvo.

Mr. KIRWAN: Every cr<edit to them.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS, Tliey are men who at any time may be in tiie position of applying for better positions

in other parts of the world. Railway en­gineers move about, although there are not

many of them go away from the [8 p.m.] Queensland Railway ser_vice. I

think that I ha vo little tm1e left, but what I wish to point out is this : Hon. members if they will turn to Table 4, page;; 24 and 26 of the Commissioner's report, will see there a statement of the cost of th<> various railv:-,~~\1 ", exclusive of r__;lling-stock, and, in order 'to show that the statements, the one as against the other, are _on a perfectly fair basis, I would po:nt out that th<e contract statement does not Ill­elude the line from Brisbane to Gowrie Junc­tion-a'3 a n1atter of fact, it does not in­clude the line fr.om Bris!Jane to Dalby or from Brisbane to Warwick but the line from Brisbane to Gowrie Junction is one of th& most expensive lines built in the State. It is 122.75 miles long, costing £2,847,207, or a cost of £23,195 tJer mile. If that had been included in the c~ntract statement, it would have brought up the average cost per mile very considerably.

Mr. RYAN: \Vas Robb's railway included in thatl

The SECRETARY FOR R~\.ILWAYS:. One moment; I will deal with that directly. I thought it was also advisabl<e to look up the North, and I find that the line from Cairns to Mareoba, in lt.ugth 47.59 miles, which cost £1,328,558, equal to a cost '-' ;!:,<;'{,911 per mrlu, is not included in the contract labour state­ment. So that if we had those figures in the contract table, it would have made a great difference. The r-,o]icy of thA Queens­land Government for the past eleven years has beBn to build all railways by day labour, and I hope whilst we continue to have the able staff, and the good men that we have working for that able staff, we shall not de­part from that system.

OPPOSITION MEMBERS: Hear, hear ! Th<e SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS:

But when it becomes nec>•ssary from any cause-dilat-oriness on the part of anybo_dy, I say it straight out-to review the situatwn, then I say the situation should be review<ed; but, until that comes about, I say that these two statements stand to the credit of every man, whether he be <engineer, surveyor, or navvy, who has had anything to do with th<> building of these 1,144 miles of railway durmg the last eleven years in QU€ensland by day labour, at a saving of over £2,000,000 of money. (Hear, hear!) I~ has bee~ statE!d that the building of agncultural hnes m Queensland has b<een neglected by the Go­vernment and by the R-;ilway Department in favour, of the building of the Great ·western Railway and thr, North Coast Railway. I would "!ike to say that tho North Coast Rail­way is beino- built at five different centres, m accordance ~ith the Act-all in agricultural districts. The Great W<eRtern Railway is being built at three different points-not the fourth-and in some of the finest sheep country in the world. I hope that the build­ing of these extensions west·" ard will not have to stop--

Mr. LENNON : We all hopd that. The SECRETARY FOR RAIL\YAYS:

Becau·,e I firmly believe that when these ex­tensions westward are built-even witnout the coupling-up line, the line running from south-,_··ast to north-west-they will be the means, as I stawd when I introduced the Bill in 191.0, of doubling the numbc:· of she"P in Queensland, and that means doubling the w0rk of those p:-Jgnged in the pa•toral in­dustry.

Hon. W. T. Paget.]

'1296 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Mr. FOLEY.: Doubling the number of human beings? Th~ SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS·

It will more than double the number of men. because if you double the number of sheep you must double the number of human beings who w'?rk amongst them. Not only that, but the bmldmg of these extensions to the West will lead to closer settlement, and be suit­able to the West. Instead of runs with an area of hundreds of square miles, I hope to S<:e the whole of the country cut up into grazmg farms of, say, 40,000 or 50,000 acres. May that day come quickly.

Mr. RYAN: Why not 20,000 acres?

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: 20,000 acres, if you like, if the country is suitable. The hon. member for Barcoo knows perfectly well that there is plenty of cou~try in the West where a 20,000-acre grazmg farm would not be an area that would be profitable to a man to run his stock upon. It IS not all the finest sheep country in the world, but a very great portion of it )s. With respect to the Government neglecting the building of agricultural railways, and the non-starting of certain _lines that were passed last sessiOn,. I w_ould l_Ike to state : In spite of all that IS bemg said about myself I did not promise those railways. '

Mr. RYAN: Who did?

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: It was this House, which passed the plans that promised the railways. '

Mr. RYAN: And who is to carry it out?

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: And I am carrying it out.

Mr. RYAN: Nonsense!

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: I am going to carry it out much more quickly than hon. members are suggesting. If I had any desire, in the a!loca ting of the loan money that the Treasurer could give to the Railway Department, to turn down any of those railways, why should I have put down £10,000 each on the Estimates for them? If I had any desire to turn them down, no sum at all would have been put on the Estimates, and then we could not have started them, but whilst there is a sum of £10,000 on the Estimates for any particular line, and I am able to handle more money from the Treasurer-as I hope to be able to

do-there will then be no difficulty in start­ing any one of those lines, or all of them, 'and, I hope, before the end of the financial year. The hon. gentleman knows perfectly well that the statement I have made is absolutely correct, and in conformity with the Audit Act, and he will also know that it would have been impossible for us even to have carried out the working surveys of those lines, which must b{Ol done before any plans can be prepared, had we not a sum of money on the Estimates, because the money must be drawn from that amount-an appropriation must be made after the House has voted the money. This charge that has been made, that the building of agricultural lines has been neglected, is absolutely untrue. Of the seventeen lines that are under construction at the present moment, fifteen are in agri­cultural centres.

Mr. RYAN: What about the hon. member for Dalby's speech at J ondowaie?

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: I have no time to reply to that, and it is not worth replying to. The bon. member said he was coming along to denounce the matter in the House, but I have not seen him here yet.

Mr. KIRWAN: He is preparing his denun­ciation? (Laughter.)

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: I am perfectly ready to accept anybody's challenge, because the work of the Railway Department is carried on aboveboard all the time. The information I have given to hon. members is information that I need not have gone to the trouble of collecting.

Mr. RYAN : And. some of our party are very sorry you gave it.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: I am of opinion that it is information which members of the Committee are entitled to­(hear, hear !}-and that there is not one mem­ber of the Committee who is sorry that I gave it. If there is one member who iR sorry that I gave the information, then, to use an Irishism, it does not matter to me wheth0r he is sorry or not. I said I had one or two other statements which I desired to present to the Committee. One of these is a statement in connection with railway construction on the Darling Downs. The Premier quoted from it very briefly last night.

Co, f OF CONSTRUCfiON AND OTHER. WORKS ON THF: DARLING DOWNS-FOUR. (4) YEARS, 1903-9 TO 1911-12. (Exclusive of Rollinu-Stoc/c )

Amount

No. of ::J ~"""' yet to be Balance Average Lines. Lines. Expended Expended Required to Cost per during at31-8-1912. Cu-rrrent Complete. Mile.

year.

£ £ £ £ Lines constructed (during last 4 years) ... ... 6 Lines between Warwick and Thallon- £

143•98 •445,787 ... . .. 3,096

Inglewood to Goondiwindi 52•27 99.630 } Goondiwindi to Tal wood 54"24 ••. 119,213 3 144"60 *319,272 ... 2,208 Tal wood to Thallon 38•09 ... 100,429

... ... Lines un,ler construction ... . .. . .. 2 65 155,916 72,722 59,857 4,438

Thall on to Dir:rnnbandi ... 1 40 82,837 17.001 748 2,515 Lines authorised but not y~t co~;Tienc~·d 2 47 20.000 120,753 2.995 Sundry other works within same boundaries ... . .. 96,000 70,000

ex Lmm ... .. ,

Sundry other works within same boundaries ... . .. *46,000 ... '"" . .. ex Revenue , ___

--- -----179,723 1-181,358

---14 441 1,145,812

* Prmc•Pa.lly rel&ymg.

[H{)n, W. T. Paget.

Supply. · (25 SEPTEMBER.} Supply. 1297

I nctnsive of Rol!ing-Stoek.

Lines. No. ot Lines. Mileage.

Amount Amount yet to be

Expended Expended at 31-8-1912. C~~~':~

Year. ---------------- -------1----

Lines Constructed .. . . . . ... 6 Lines between Warwick and Thall on- £

Inglewood to Goondiwindi ... 52•27 . 120,430 } Goondiwindi to 1'alwood ... 5·~·24 ... 122,213 Tall'food to Thallon ... . .. 3~·09 ... 103,429

Lines under Construction ... 2 Thall on to Dirraubandi ... ... . .. 1 Lines authorised but. not yet commenced ... 2 Sundry .other works within Rn.me boundaries ex

Loan ~Sundry other works within same boundaries ex

Revenue

143•98

1~·60

65·00 40•0() 47•00

£ •475,366

*346,072

155,916 82,837

G6,000

*46,000

£

7Z,722 !7,001 20,000 70,000

Balance Average Required to Cost per Complete, Mile.

£

59.857 748

120,753

£ 3,802

2,393

4,438 2,515 2,995

------------- -----------l4 441•00 1,202,191 179,723 I 181,355

* Princ1pa.lly relaying.

Lines Constructed during 'PCUlfour years, to 31st Au#mt, 1912.

Cost o! Con-

Railway. Length. Cost o! Con- struction, Cost per struction. including Mile.

Rolling-stock.

£ £ £ l nglewood Goondiwindi 52·27 99,630 120,430 'Goondiwindi~Talwood 54•21r 119,218 122,213 Tal wood- rha!lon 38•09 100,429 103,429 Dalby-Tara 52•05 144,645 151,645 Kingsthorpe-R~den 20"59 79,326 87,826 Warwick-l!aryvale !8•84 74,934 80,934 Pittsworth-:.Uilmrrran 26·58 8~,882 88,882 Allora-Guomburra 8•44 21,972 23,9/2 Oakey to 17 mile 38 ch~- 17•48 42,028 42,107

----- ----- ----- Average, Total ... 288•58 £765,059* £821,438t £2,651*

£2,846t

Lines nnil',~1· Construct:un at 31st A'tt;rust, 1912.

I Expenditure \Provision 1912-13 Estimates, Balance Required Railway. Length. to 31st August, Lt'3s July and August to Complete.

f 1912. Expecditure.

}!iles.

I £ £ £

17 Miles 38 Obains to Cooyar (to 21 121,272 24,678 complete)

Miles-Juandah (on account) ... ... 44 34,644. 48,044 59,857 ----------------------------

Total . ., ... ., . 65 155,916 72,722 59,857

Thallon-Dirranbandi (to complete).,, 40 __ 82,837_1 17,001 74q

Grand Total ... . .. 105 238,753 1 89,723 60,605

Lines Auzhorised, but not yet Commenced, 31&t A1hgusl, 1912.

Railway. Length. Provision, 1912-13. Estimated Cost, exclusive

of Land and Rolling­stock.

--------~-------~----·1------t-------t----

Dalby to Jondowaie (on accollnt) ...

Oa.key to Mount Russell (on account)

1912-4L

Miles. 28

19

1!, £ 10,000 81,199

10,000 59,554 ---------- -----·--·-4.7 £20,000 £140,753

Hon. W. T. Paget.]

1298 Suppiy. [ ASSE11BL Y.] Supply.

Proposed TV01·h Provided on Estinwtes, 1912-1913. £

5,000· 20,000

Dalby.-Alterations to station yard, etc. (on acrount) ... ... ... Warwick.-i'i'ation arrangements, subway, bridge, etc. (to complete) ... ... . .. Warwick to 1Yallan-garra.-Strengtheniug steel and timber br1dges !or heavier engines

(on account) . .. ... ... . .. . .. Wyreema.-Removal and alteration to st&tion ... ... ... .. . .. Oakey _to_Chincbilla.-Strengthening steel and timber bridges to I~ ton axle load Toowoomb~.-Increas~d station ac?ommoda.t!on (on accourlt) . . . . .. s.outhern LI?~·-:-125 m1les ~o 135 miles 40 chmns raising and strengthening roud, ete. Southe1·n DlVISIOn,-Relaymg ... ... ... ... ... ... ... . ..

6.860 2,740 7,200

10,0110 1,500 1,000

Miscellaneous works (saj).

Total

£54,30(}'

£16,000

£70,300

Cost of Construction u,nd other Works on the Darling Downs-Four Years, 1!!04-5 to 1907-8

Lines. I I Cost or

Length. Con~truction.

Cost or Construction,

including Rolling-stock.

Cost per Mile.

---------·------------1----- -----------------Warwick to Thane Thane to Inglewood Dalby to llell

Total ...

1>1iles. 24•63 4B'04 23•50

96

£ 88,161

125,705 32,461

{1) 246,327

£ £ 99, lGl

144,905 36,611

(2) (1) 2,566 290,677 (2} 2,924

Sundry Loan Works ... Sundry Revenue .:Works

--- "' 27,000 27,000 ···l __ ._ .. _----.:=o~ ~~---"-'-... 301,327 335,677 ...

* Principally relaying.

This statement shows that during the past four years, on the Darling Downs and in the Thallon part of the Downs, 441 miles of railway were built and opened for traf­fic at a cost, including rolling-stock, of .£1,202,191.

Mr. GRAYSON: It is money well spent.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Money exceedingly well spent, and. I wish I had the two other railways on the Darling Downs, that have been approved by Parlia­ment, under construction, but the hon. men-..­ber cannot get them started yet. During the four years prior to the period mentioned there were only 96 miles of railway opened on the Darling Downs, at a cost of £335,000 so that I think the Darling Downs has not done badly during the last four years. In. conclusion, I think the Treasurer's State­ment is extremely explicit and informative, and a thoroughly true exposition of the fin.-.ncial position of the country. The Trea­surer and Queensland are to be congratulated on the state of affairs shown in the State­ment, and I trust that the finances of the country will continue to be such that the progress we have made during the last fevv­years may be long continued. (Hear, heart)

Mr. LENNON (Herbert): The hon. gen­tleman who has just sat down practically told us that he was on his defence.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: No; not at;; all.

Mr. LENNON: Yes; the hon. gentleman.. said an attack had. been levelled against;; the Railway Department, and the heated manner in which he spoke certainly showed that he wa"; on his d.efence.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: No.

[Han: W. T. Paget.

Mr. LEN::-JON : The hon. gentleman need not try to brush it aside like that; it was patent to every member present that he was on his defence; and, let me say, he made· a very weak defence. The hon. gentleman defended the action of the Premier in mak­ing the statement which he submitted to th•c' House over a month ago, and said it was a straightforward candid., and business-like statement. vV ;_ shall see whether the state­ment i~ worthy of all that commendation. The Premier made his statement on the 31st July last, and it is to be found at page 504 of Hansard. After enumerating the eighteen lines which were to be proceeded with, the hon. gentleman s:.id-

" It is proposed to concentrate our efforts on the lines of railways just enu­merated, completing and turning them into revenue-producing concerns before we commence the construction of any of the ten lines authorised. by Parliament last ye,,r. Those ten linec; are, Logan Village to Canungra, Munbilla t0 Mount Edwards, Kingaroy to Tarong, Dalby to J ondowaie, Oakey to ),fount Rmsfjll, Roma to Oralio, Pialba to Urangan, Cloncurry to Mount Cuthbert, Malanda towards Millaa Millaa, Tumoulin to Cedar Creek."

From that quotation we see that on the 31st July the Premier said the Government had no intention of going on with any of those ten railways.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: What about the Malbon-Duchess Railway?

Mr.· LENNON: I am not dealing with that railway; I am referring to the ten rail­ways mentioned by the Premier in that

Supply. (25 SEP:rEMBER.] Supply. 1299'

~tatement. I am referring also to the Min­Ister for Railway~' defence of the Railway Department, and mmdentally to his defence o~ the actiOn of the Premier in making a d.1stmct statement to the House and the coun­try that not one of the ten lines I have e:'umeratcd. would be started until the other Cighte':'n ra1h:ays had reached the point of bccommg paymg concerns.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: That is the construction you are putting upon it.

Mr. LENNON : I am reai:ling the facts. I am not puttmg any construction upon them.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Ah!

:JYir. LENNON: D~es the han. gentleman understand the meanmg of plain English ?

The SECREl'ARY FOR RAILWAYS: Not when stated by you. ,

Mr. LENNON: I have_quoted from Han­sard, and the han. gentleman insinuates that I am not statmg the matter fairly. I have quoted the words uttered. by the Premier ~vhom the han. gentleman got up to defend Just now, and miserably failoo in the at­tempt. The han. gentleman has gone back on that distinct promise made to the House and the country, That shows what relia­bility can be placed upon the statements the han. gentleman may think fit to make to the House when it suits him. Personally I congratulate the Minister for Railways ,;nd all the officers <.>f the .Railway Department upon the way m whwh the railway; of Q':'eensland are run. I may have some very triflmg personal grievance against the de­J<artm~nt, but that is not worth mentioning. Speakmg ?f the department as a whole, par­tiCularly m the light of the information which the han. gentleman has vouchsafed. to the Committ-ee in regard to day labour and other matters, I say the Commissioner and every .of!icer of the department, from the CommiSsiOner downwards, are to be com­mended on the splendid results achieved.

Mr. KIRWAN: They deserve an increase.

Mr. LENNON: They deserve all the in­cn!':ses they. have got. The Secret·ary for Railways said. the Premier made a manlv statement when h_e ,,ubmitted to the Houso that statement With regard to the railway polic,c of the Government. It would havo been more man!~' if the han. gentleman had D!ade that statement with regard to the ten hncs of _railway which are not to be pro­ceeded With before the general election. Had he 1~ude the statement before the general electwn I would have given him some credit ~or manline6s ~n making it, but what credit Is anyon_e enti~led to for making a state­ment whwh he IS compelled. to make in order to save his own face? If the statement was made at the proper time, then we mio-ht have been able to join in the Minister f';r Rail­way'' enthusiastic commendation of the P~e­mier. The hon. !?'entleman stated that ·he would build railways more rapidly if he could get the money from the Treasurer. ~hat means that the Trea~urer is a ver7 ~rght-fisted fellow. We know he is, and th,;t 1s not at all a bad characteristic for a TrF ~~\trer.

An HONOURABLE MeiBER: A very good one.

Mr. LENNON: A very good characteris­tic indeed, and. I shall endeavour to shovv prAsently, i~ my own way, that the han. gentleman, tight-fisted as he may br·, has not

had his fists closed as tightly as he should have had. Members on this side have spoken in favour of lowering fare .. ; and freights on the railways. I am totally opposed to any such thing. I am abc;olutely opposed to the lowBring of fares and freights until many districts in Queensland, which have no rail­ways at all, get the railways they need.. In the district I represent they have no rail­ways at all, though one has just been com­menced there. The whole district of Her­bert, with 150 miles of coast line, daBs not poss<'ss a single mile of railway, and I con­tend that we should not lower fan's and freights until districts like that are provided with railway communication. And, more­over, you cannot lower the r'l,tes, because you cannot afford to do it. You can onl0 d.o a matter of this sort when you can afford it. I am a great advocate of cheap rate:; on all produce coming to market, but you cannot make them so cheap as to carry them at a loss, unless you are so strong financially that you can afford to do so. VI' e are all in favour of the increases, and we are glad to hear of the increases that have been al­lotted. We are all sympathetic to the lower paid classes of the service, particularly to the gatekeepers who, in some oases, are re­ceiving as low as 4s. 10d. per week. The han. gentleman has rather dwelt upon th" fact that he is requirir~g for the purposes of railway construction c£2,300,000, and he asked hon. members whether they think that amount should be increa·:ed. Speaking for myself, I would like to see it very much in­creased. if we knew where to find the money, of if we had the means. But I know that we have not the money, and I know we can­not get it on suitable terms. Consequently, I consider c£2,300,000 to be ample to be spent on railway constnwtion this year, for I think that ahout c£2,000,000 a year would be about the full extent of our means.

The SE!JRE'l'ARY FOR RAILWAY3: That, of course, is for evf'.:ythiw~.

Mr. LEN"'O="': I do not think th1· amount ought to be increased, and I would remind tlw han. gentleman, as well as all the han. gentlen,,:n of this Commith , tl<lt this part:;- ha; rep< 1tedly ''"·god the Government to go slow.

Tht> 'TREA'· t:RER : Except L your own electorates. (LaughtBr.)

Mr. LENNO;\;: I quite t,dmit I have a leaning for my own electorate,· and I think I am safe in .. a~,~in:; that ·B\ cry lL·~!nUer on tln other .'de has a simi] :r leaning.

The TREASuRER: Y.cs, on this side, ho.

T Ir. LENNO:i'i:: .What me:nbers on this sid6 urged the Gov<.rnmci!t to c'o j; to ab:tndon the' ,,,-ild-cat railway-that is, the ow' from Toberm01y to Camooweal-which is to cost £4,500.000, and which we <ontcnd is twenty years before its time.

Mr. FORSYTH: It has gone to pot.

Mr. LENNON: I am rq1!y;•1g to th.~· ob­jectisq_s to statements nl,~rle on this side of the HoU''e. All we> want is the extension of the Western lines as well as from Longreach to Winton. But the railway I have referred to was only promoted as a rival to the Com­monwealth Transcontinental Railway-an in­stance of truculcn(·'~ en th.r, part of the Qunen:1anc! GoF,rnme;>t to the FccLral Go­vernment. Anybody who ref,·rs to the pares.

Mr. Lenn01~.]

1300 Supply. [AS SEMEL Y.] Supply.

of Hansa1·d will see that hon. members oppo­s!te at that time valiantly fought for that line, even though it has gone by the board '!-' the hon. member for Murrumba inter: Jected.. If reference is m'tde to Hansard you Will see prophecies of how it was going to enable Queensland to double its stock of sheep. I am prepared to admit that ~ailway constructica in the \\Test will mal,·. provision for larger numbers of shPep, but I do not thmk the construction of railwa>J in Queensland is. going t? double th0 "Theep­carrymg ctpacrty of t:us StatD so r<cadily as the hon. gentleman anticipates. ·while rail­Wil;J"i will facilitste the transfer of sheep for agistment, Y<)t when .a drought comes along you cannot find the agistment, and that is the trouble. It does not do to bo too san­guine, and I rem<llpbor quoting in this House the statcuent of ,a gentleman whom I r~gard as nn authority second to none in Queensland or in Australia. This gentleman is a p_astoralist larg-ely intenw,ted in Queens­land, m the north-western parts, and also in the other States, and he gav<: it as his opinion that in the North and West drought was the normal c•ondition. I mggest to the Govern­m<Jn~ to go slow!:,, and t<i hear in mind the opimon of an authority such as that; and a Government that do"' not take into con­sider:a!ion the possibility that the normal ·oondrtwn of the north-west of Queensland _is one of drought is liable to get the State into difficultif''· The Gov"rnment should make provision for a po~sibl" recurrence of drought conditions; and, as the; hon. mem­ber for :!fassifern .has wisely said, it should keep a little up Its sleeve. As it is how­ever, it is "going nap" on the "+~ather. Once thD P oaecm.-. disappoint them, they will find themselves in the condition of 1902-03 which the hon. Treasuror is so fond of refer: Ting to in his Stat£·.-wnt. The hon. gentle­man picks out this ye-u, which has bPen a buo:'ant year, ·which is the close-I hope it is not the close, but rather the continuance­of seven or eight years of unparallekd pros­perit~ in Queensland. He tab' this year of 1912 and compares it with 1902, which I call a blight 3·'Car, the culmi'1ating ;-ear of all the preceding years of drought. I would like to remind him of what was said at that time bY a g~ntk'llan for whom he has so recently expressed his profound admiration.

The TREASL:RER: If YOU are referring to tho I-Ion. Robert Philp, I may say that I still have a profound respect for that gcntle­Ina.n.

J'.lr. LENNON: The hon. gentleman is anticipating. I was going to r{ fer to a gentleman who -was th'C\n criticising the Go­vernment, which was tb2n supported by the. hon. gentleman. I am referring to Mr. William Kidston, for whom the hon. gentle­man has expressed great 3.·dmiration. On pa'l"e 76 of volume lxxxix. of Hansard, lUr. Kidston, in speaking of the ne<Jessity of the Government for short<lning sail, a condition I very much fear this Government will find thcmsclveJ in--

The TREAS1JRER : Do you not mean you hope?

Mr. LENNON I do not hope anything of the kind, and surely the hon. gentleman does not think that I do, after what I have said. I am speaking honestly and fairly what J think, just as I give the hon. member credit for doing the same. The hon. member is endeavouring to take me off the track, but I

(Mr. Lenmon.

shall not allow him to do so. I want to remind him of what Mr. Kidston said m 1902. In speaking then he said/-

" Then, there is a, Special Retrench­ment Bill to reducn salaries, \vages, .fee-s, allowances, and every other -emolument of every person in the Government ser­vice, on the following scah :-Every salary not over £100 to be reduced by 1s. in the £ ; over £100 but not exceed­ing· £450, 2,. in the £; all 'alaries over £-1-50, 3s. in the £, ,vith tlH-se e"\{'F'ptions -His Excellency thD Go\'ocnor and his privatD sem·eta;y, the judges of the !'\uprcm<e a,nd District Court~. the Land C.:ourt, an-d the Auditor-General. The Bill also provi<les that the President of thf1 Legislative Council, Mr. Speaker, "nd the Ministers have to be reduced by £150, equal to 15 per <Pnt.: tha,t mem­hcr< of the A·,semblv have to be reduced by £50, which is eqlial to 16~ per cent. ; the Chairman of thf' Legislative Council has his saiary reduC'"d by £200 or 40 per cent. The Chairman of Committees of the Legislative Assembly is not men­tioned, so that I presume that he simply suffers like other members to the extent of £50, which \\ould mean a, reduction of 10 per cent."

My only object in referring to this is to point out what the Government had to do when reduced to straits on account of the seasons ; and I want this Government not to stake its all on the continuance of the good seasons we have had for the last eight years. We know from experience that the longer we have a continuance of good sea­sons, the more imminent becomes a change; and in the good years, when the Govern­ment can put something up its sleeve-to again quote the hon. member for Fassifern­I think it is their duty to do so. The Minister for Railways also referred in glow­ing terms to the success of the day-labour system as against the contract system in oonnPction with railway construction; and he seemed to work himself up into a state of indignation as he impressed the fact upon members on this side, who have been satis­fied for years as to day labour being the better system. The hon. member, instead of trying to impress members on this side, when supplying the information prepared by officers of the deoartment, should have turned round and -addressed his own sup­porters on this matter.

Mr. FORSYTH: It was not worth the paper it was written on.

Mr. LENNON: I think the hon. member goes too far in saying that. I said that the proper test in regard to the two sys­tems would be by comparing railways of the same kind in the same class of country ; but I found later on that the railway from Cairns to Mareeba was not included.

Mr. FoRSYTH: That would make it worse.

Mr. LENNON: It would make it worse for the contract system. That line cost £27,000 a mile. It is the most costly line ever built in Queensland ; and I hope it will always remain the most costly. I con­sider it would be better to go round some distance than construct thirteen concrete tunnels in a distance of four or five miles. From the facts and figures supplied by the Engineering Branch of the Railway Depart-

Supply. [25 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 1301

ment. we have proof that the day-labour system is the better system. That proof was not needed by Opposition members, because we had the ,,.surance of J.l,fr. Pagan in years gone by that in the construction of the tramli1+e from Townsville to A:.·r, in 188J or 1881, £26,000 had been saved by day labour. W< are glad to find that Wf' have made such a splendid convert of the Minister for Railways, and we are glad of all new converts to the system of day labour The only £<ear I have is that the han. gentle: man may t, et his v. alking ticket, as the hon. member for Fitzroy did a c.hort time ago.

J\'l:r. VVHITE : Are his premises correct?

Mr. LENNON: I am satisfied that we can accept the assur::tnce of Mr. Pagan, Mr. Bell, s.nd the engmeers of the department on a matter of this sort. This quection is known to have been a contPntious matter in Parliament, where the dc·•ire has been ex­prlc<·ed to haw· th" da>·-labour s~·stem teC:Jted; consequently, I take it that thn officers o~ the dep_artment wou_ld be v.ery careful, m prepanng mformatwn of this kind, not to put any •·ham statement before the Committee. With regard to the Finan­cial Statement, I must say the Treasurer is particularly fortunate in having again had a buoyant year in regard to revenue. lie refers to the fact that the favourablf• antici­pations of last year were amply realised. He says- .

" This year I am in a position to say that the rate of progress has not only been maintained, but that marked im­proYement on the previous year has taken place. The revenue from most sources has increased considerably, and a record for thu StatP has been established."

That is Yery gratifying, and I am delighted to hear it; but for the seasons, however that record could not have been attained' and the hon. gentleman is well a ware of it' But while he says a record has been estab: !ished with regard to revenue, he omits to tell us that a record has been established also in expenditure. It is a case of sound the drum, blow the trumpet, sing aloud in rPgard to revenue, but not a word about expooditure. As a friend of mine said the other day, when I remarked on the buoy­ancy of the revenue, " There is wonderful buoyancy in the expenditure likewise." Now, I want to refer to the fact that the revenue for the year was estimated at £5,773,000 · but the actual expenditure was £5,889,000' or £215,759 over the e~timate. It is not easy to E''itimate revenue; but when you come to estimate expenditure, I think one ought t9 go nearer than the Treasurer did. He "'timated the expenditure last year at £5,768.633; the actual expenditure amounted to £3,!Wi.G92. or £197.0S9 over the esti­mate. That is a very large sum; and in their expenditure it may be said that the Government have shown a spendthrift policy -a go-as-you-please, devil-may-care style.

The TREASURER: Have you read the Federal figures lately?

Mr. LENNON: I am dealing with the State figures at present. If I had the honour of being a member of the Federal House I would deal with Federal figures. Pos~ sibly I may make some passing reference to Federal matters. On the first page of the Statement, we have the estimated re­venue during the year; and I want to point

out that under the very convenient descrip­tion, "Miscellaneous," we find an estimated revenue of £433,200, but an actual revenue of £536,533. That include; £90,000 received from the Federal Goyernment; but even allowing for that, it is £10,000 more than the ostimatP. In expenditq·e thf>y do not want the public to know anything about the miscellaneous items, amongst which is the expenditm:e incurred in trying to prevent the tramway union from going before the Arbitration Court. I hope the Treasurer will listen to this, as I hope it will be con­veyed to the propa quarter. Under the head of "Miscellaneous," we have an amount of over £500,000, and no details given. Let me say that the Government do not want them to be given; they want to keep them dark, iu~t as thw.- wantetl to keep dark the fact that last y.;-ar was a record ~-ear in roc;ard to expend.iture. The han. gentleman, m his general feeling of joyousness, goes on to sa.\'-

" Ther-e is cause, ho-wever, for intense gratification that we should have re­ceived £rom our railways the hand<omt' 1um of £3,032,939, abl the management are to be congratulated thereon, espe­cially when it is borne in mind that the receipts from railways in 1906-7 were £1,821,946, whilst in July, 1911-12, they had ·increa.-,f'd over the period mentioned by £1,210,983."

I think it is a matkr fur sinc·ere gratifica­tion. I regard it as a splendid achievement, I think it is VPr" creditable to all concerned that we have • mc1de a revenue of over £3,000,000 from our railways, particularly having regard to the fact tbt it is slightly in excess of 4 per cent. of the cost. In this connection I would refer the hen. gen­tlBman to what I said about the seasons; about the normal condition of our north. western country. If that drought in the early part of the year, to which the hen. gentleman referred, had continued until now, I Yenture to s'a.y we would hav·_, had a very poor lookout from our railv. ay returns next year. I want the people to understand what this thing means. Our revenue at the pre"ent time from railways is more than half the entire revenue of the State of Queensland. That is a state of things not equalled in any other State. It is very satisfactory, an? I would not like to see our railway receipts tumble down. I should like to see them go on increasing, as they should do in conse­quence of the fact that we are extending our railways, and I glory in the fact that we occupy the proud position of owning more miles of railway than any other State. I am essentially a Queenslander, and I believe in Queen•>land. But we want ~o con­sider that fact in regard to our estt:mated requirements of next year. The Government should acP-ept the advice of the hon. member for Fassifern, and the hon. member for Murrumba, and the adYice tendered from this side over and over again last session, and th<> session before, to go a bit slow. The hen. gentleman also refers to the fact that after some correspondence with the Federal Government, they came to an agree­ment with' regard to the payment of 3i'; per cent. instead of 3 per cent., as offered by the Federal Government in respect of their transferred property. I remember that last year I stated that I thought 3~ per cent. was a fair thing, and it would not have

Mr. Lennon.1

1302 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

been right to accept anything less. I think the Treasurer was right in standing out for 3!; per cent., but I fancy this report of the han. gentleman is somewhat at fault. On page 2, he says-

" An amount of £90,781 was received by the 'I'nasury during the year, being mtercst at the rut" of 3 per cent. per annu1n.''

The TRllA',;'RER: That is perfectly correct. Then haj not been an adjustment.

Mr. LE"'XON: Then they .still owe you a-half per C·cnt?

The T££ASCRER : That is so. It is payment on account.

Mr. LEKNON: That is part of the amount. up ··our sleeve. The details of the ex1wnd1turu reveal the fact that the Govf'rn­ment spent £62,094 more on immigration Jas.t year than they had any authority for domg. They come along to the House and say ~hey. are .going to spend so much money on lm~Igrahon, . and without any further autho~1ty, and v. 1thout " By your leave" or anythmg else, they spend as much as they please.

Mr. FORSYTH : You arc altogether wrong.

Mr. LENNON: Nothing of the sort. Mr. FORSYTH: Look at it again.

Mr. LENKON: This says "Excess." Mr. FoRSYTH: What is the appropriation?

Mr. LENNON : I find I am mistaken. I thank the han. member for putting me right.

Mr. FoRSYTH: You are on the w track. rang

Mr. LENNON: I am all right. I need not. refer further to that matter. I referred to 1t last year, and I have talked about it on every platform in North Queensland. The Government have taken an unwarrantable liber~y in getting this Hou,11e to pass a certar~ sun1 for im1nigration, and then s~endmg more than double that amount Without any authority whatever. The han. gentleman further on says-

" In v!ew, hO\>ever, .of the develop­ment whwh took place m different parts of the State, it will be admitted I think, that a firm hand was kept upon expenditure.''

I han' shown that in that item alone in regard to iumigration, that a firm hand'was not kept on <''<penditure. How can the han. gent1Prn<tn r·:dmly make that statement when he kr;ows yery . well it cannot b-: truthfully statea? What 1s the us0 of makm;.; • &tate­':nent of that ~art and trying to throw dust m the eyes or the Committee? I want to point out something in regard to the Go­vernment Savings Bank. The han. gentle­man says-

" The deposits in the Government Savings Bank tot::lled £7,3.42,811 at the close of the finanmal year, being marked evidence of the progress of the State and t~e c.onfi.dence of the people in their own mst1tutwn. The following return reveals its progress since 1902-3."

The han. gentleman takes a drought year a~d compares it with the record year. Why dtd he not compare it with the fi<>'ures for the last three or four years? I a,;{ glad to

say that this table of figures shov':; that the depo,:its have increased b0 £1,0011,000 during the last twelve months. That is a very satisfactory incrr "-SO. But let me remind the han. gentleman of what I have told him for the last four or five years-that if he in­creaeed the limit from £200 to £500 he would double the amount of deposits in a v," .. ' few years. That brings me to the wail, and I bewail the fact that th<'Y are bE'wail­ing the aggre,~ion or encroachment of the Conunonwealth Bank. Let me retnjnd the han. gentleman that the Federal Govern­ment has power to conduct a banking insti­tution, to have a note issue, and to control the currency, a'1d cons•·quently it is endowed with all the powers to < arry out banking business if it chooses to do so, and it is the clute· of the F<<kral Government to establish a CommonwPalth Bank. If they did not establish a Commonwealth Bank, no one would have been more readv than han. members opposite to twit th~m with not being game to carry through their platform, and because they carry out their own plat­form they are termed " aggressionists" and "encroachers." At the conference of Treasurers that was held to discuss this matter, the Federal Government made an offer to the various States of Australia-that if the States agreed to the Federal Govern­ment carrying on a Federal Savings Bank for the benefit of the whole of the States--

At eleven minutes to 9 o'clock,

The CHAIRMAN said: Under Standing Order No. 11, I call upon the han. member for Leichhardt to relieve me in the chair.

Mr. HARDACRE thereupon took the chair.

Mr. LENNON: Yet, the States Treasurers refused to agree to this reasonable, prac­tical, generous proposn,l; that is what I call it.

The TREASURER: A discount of 25 per cent. Do you call that reasonable?

Mr. LENNOK: The Commonwealth offered the State' throughout Australia 75 per cent. of the new business transacted by the Savings Bank, but the various States Treasurers refused to accept it. Now we have the Commonwealth Bank in competi­tion. I am sorry that it has come to this, very sorry. I bewail the fact that the States Treasurers and those behind them advising them had not the sense to know a good offer when thev saw it. They had not the sense to know ~that they were offered just what they wanted. ·what has been the result of that? The han. gentleman takes credit for the fact that 444 branch offices and agencies of the Savings Bank have been established in this State. Just fane:•• openinz 444 new ofhces.

The TREASURER: We had to leave the Post Office.

Mr. LENNON: But YOU should have accepted the offer that the Commonwealth made to you. The Treasurer spurned thG> offer that was made to him. He said, ''No; we arc bigger than you are." The Queens­land Treasurer wanted to show that he was a bigger man than the Federal Treasurer, and he opened 444 branch offices. Putting it at a moderate estimate, I suppose it will cost £20 a year to run each of those branch offices. That will mean £9,000 extra expense to run the State Savings Bank in the future than it cost in the past.

The TREASURER : That is not so.

[ M 1'. Lennon.

Supply. [25 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 1303

Mr. LENNON : Is my estimate too larg0? The TREASURER : Your e0timate is out

·altogether. Mr. LENNON: It certainly is not a very

large estimate. Mr. MuRPHY: If it is out this year it will

not be far out next year.

Mr. LENNON: I estimate that it will cost fully £9.000 more to run the Savings Bank of Queensland this year than it cost last year.

The TREASURER : In some of the offices we will eave hundreds of pounds.

:1fr. LENNON: I am very glad to hear it. But I am pointing out that the han. gentle­man and the other Stutes Treasurers spurned a splendid offer which was made by the Federal Government. I hope that the State Savings Banks will go on and prosper.

The TREASURER : : You put the Common­wealth first and the State second every time.

Mr. LENNON: You had a splendid chance of accepting a good offer and you did not take it.

Mr. FORSYTH: Just show us how it was a splendid chance from a financial point of view, so far as the State of Queensland was concerned.

Mr. LENNON: I read it in the news­papers. I think I know as much about the matter as the hon. member for Murrumba who shrugs his shoulders. '

Mr. FoRSYTH: So you should.

Mr. I,ENNON: The Commonwealth offered the Sta.tes 75 per cent. of the entire business and they would not take it. Personally, I hope lhat Que<mslanders will continue to deal with the old bank, but we know that arrivals from oversea know very little about the Queensland Government Bank or the Commonwealth Government Bank, but they will know something about the Common­wealth itself, and they will prefer to deal with the bank that has the Commonwealth behmd ili rather than one that has only the State behind it. The hon. member for Murrumba keeps interjecting. We know that the hon. _gentlem!'n has a great knowledge of financmg. His prrvate bank book will prove that conclusively. (Laughter.) But he givf's us a little , bit too much of his financial knowledge sometimes, and will not allow anybody els<' to have a say at all. How­ever, when the hon. m<>mber gets up to speak I shall have g-reat pleasure in listening to him, although I will not promise to re­frain from interjecting, because he may say something outrageous. and I may not he able to control myself and must interject. In his Statement,· the Treasurer refers to the mining industry. He says here-

" The decline in the gold vield con­tinues, but it may be doubted whether the extent to which the deficiency is made good by the growing production of the industrial metals is sufficiently recog-nised." -

We all recovnise that there has been a large increase in tho output of copper. We know also that the tin market has never been in such a satisfac1orv condition as it is nov<. But I would like· to ask, what has the Go­vernment done to bring about the improved feeling with regard to mining generally. Untif this year the Government treated the minino:, industry as a sort of" foreign incubus, sometTung that they did not want to be liothered with at all. It is very nice to see

that the price of copper is so high. I com­mend the Government tnat at last they have become alive to the fact that they have neglected the mining industry, and tha_t th~y have not given it that attentiOn wh10h 1t deserves. I see they have put :£20,000 on the Estimates in aid of deep-smlnng, £2,000 for prospecting and £5,000 for roads and briiiges in mining districts. As I stated on the Address in Reply, I would like to see the Government put down a deep shaft on , etch of the two principal mining f10!ds-at Gympie and Charters Towers. The s1te for ( ach shaft can be chosen by the experts of the department and if that is done it will t"st the country and drain it a~ the s9:me time. I do not want to put my vieW agamst the view of practical . miners, . and that is mereh- my own vrew. With regard to the 'vote for prospecting, I happen to represent a tin-mining. i!i~trict known as Kangaroo Hills. That distrrct has already produced £500,000 wor_th of tin, and it has not received a penny piece tr?m the Gov:ern­ment. I hope that the Mmister for Mm~s, who I see smiling at me approvmgly, w1ll allot some of that £2,000 for the benefit of Kangaroo Hills. A lot of men left there to go in for goldmining, but they have re­turned to Kangaroo Hilis to cont~nue wh!'-t they call tin-scratching. The prlCe_ of tm has no doubt been the lever whwh has bro~ght them back to Kangaroo Hills. The price of tin is now up to. £230 a ~on: an.d if more tin is discovered m that distnct It will bring immense wealth to Queensland. I hope the Minister for Mines will urge the Treasurer to spend some money there, or perhaps tbe Treasurer himself, after _wh~t I have said, will see that Kangaroo Hills IS

placed on the list. The TREASURER : You would not regard

that as reckless expenditure. (Laughter.)

Mr. LENNON: The money is on the Estimates. I am not like the hon. member for Charters Towers and the hon. member for Gympie, who want to swallow _th<; whole of tlie £20 000 set down for deep-smkmg. They do not ~egard any other distric~ as having a

· look in at all. What I say with regard to the prospecting vote is that there is no part of Queensland which so justifie_s t.he expense as Kangaroo Hills, although It IS unknown country to the Government.

Mr. FoRSYTH: Is it in your electorate?

Mr. LENNON: Yes; it is. (Laughter.) I have never seen a Cabinet Minister in that district. The pastoral industry is a very important one for the State. So far as I

can learn there is likely to be [9 p.m.] a great !'ailing_ off !n the yield

of wool. It IS said by some people that there will be a decrease in the export of wool, and we know that t.here was a falling off in the treatment of sheep. at the frNlZing works last year. In dealmg with this matter {he Treasurer seems to have displayed a woeful amount of ignorance. He takes ·cuts as compliments, and swallows them like a lamb. He said, speaking on the pastoral industry-

" Some authorities seem to indicate that the deficiency on the whole of the Australasian clip for the season 1912-13 will be about 250,000 bales."

Roughly, that may be estimated .at •about £12 a bale which would come to £3,000,000. That is ·a ~erious thing. But he i"' at a loss to account for the fact that few.er sheep have been tren.ted at the meatworks this year than in previous years. If the hon. gentle·

Mr. Lewno~-J

1304 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

man .. aske<_l anyone sitting behind him, fam!Irar w~th s:teep stations, he would find that wool rs such .a ver0· high pricB that it pays better to grow wool than to grow mutton, an~ that is the reason why people have reframed from putting !·heir shc·•op ~hrough the mea~works. I was very pleased mdeed to he:u tno hon. memoor for Fas"i­fern-who is an authority on pastoral matters-say that he would have a f~ar of the introduction of tho AmBrican meat trust

Mr. WIENHOLT : Did you say 800 !h. weight?

in Australia. I have a very groat fear· I am full o£ apprehension. I know that ab~ut two Yf'drs ago Mr. lCidn1an, who is called "tho catt!G k:ng-,'' was travelling about the country. It hu; turnc·cl out sine€ that he has bBen buying stations on oohalf of the American people. He said at one time that we would have no more cheap meat. I criti­cised him in m:: own dist:·ict on this point. No more cheap moat ! Ik· is talking with a bullock's heart. (Laught-er.) The Chief Secrehry: ,;vhon ·speaking last night, seemed to I•· satrsaed so long as the producer does well-so long as we have plenty of AmPrican meat coming in. It does not matter whether they are con1bines, vends, or ·vthatevcr thev ~ro, so long as they ·are good for tho mea:t mdustry.

The TREASURER : Did h<· make any refer­ence to vends last night?

Mr. LE:!\fXOX: No, he did not usc the tent "vend." He said it did not matter what nwat trusts did, if thev could raise tho price of the product to 'the producer. Does the hon. member contradict that?

The TRnSURER : I contradict you aoou t the "vend."

Mr. LEN.:\fON: My view about meat ex­port-and it applies to buttor export-is that it is the duty of the Governmen to see, first of all, that home consumption is satisfied at a reasonable price before they spend the funds of the StatB in making increased pro­fits for the producers.

A GOVERNMENT ME!IBER : How would you do that?

Mr. LENNON: It may have to be done by an e.xport tax probably, but I will not say until I am over there-if I was over th'!re I might . find the means of doing it. Wrll anyone. t1eny my cont-ention? What possible interest is it to 95 per cent. of the people in Quee.nsland, who at the p!'esent time pay 6d. or 7d. a lb. for their beef or mutton-what possible gratification can it be to them to read that the meat industry is particularly prosperou& in Queensland, that all the meatworks and freezing works are full, and meat is selling in I,ondon at 4d. a. lb.? I say we ought to s::ttisfy home con­sumption requirements to the full at a. reasonable price, ·and a reasonable price in Queeneland for beef and mutton is an ave~·­~ge of about 4d. a lb. That is not putting rt at a low price at all. I quite join with the han. member for Fassifern. I sav that when cattle were selling at £2 per· hBad and even at £1 lOs. a head in North Queens: land, and mutton was ld. or l~d. a lb., it was no good to anybody: but when a man can get £5 or £6 for a bullock weighing 700 or 800 lb., he has no room to growl. I: reckon he gets a fair price.

Mr. vVIENHOLT : I do not.

' ::\1r. LENNON: That is, perhaps down here with the high cost of land: bu't I am. thinking of North Queensland where Janel oosts very little. '

[Mr. Lennon.

:"v1r. LENXO.:\f: .~00 lb. is nthc· heavy-· 700 10. is a bdter wei,-ht, ''"d bHtt.cr for freezing purpor·cs. I say it i": too high a. price, having regard to t],e conoumor-to the man who Ba(·s the bee+.

Mr. FORSYTH : \Yho gets the profit?

Mr. LENX0::\1: l'he man vcl1o raises the bullock-if he doc·. n•Jt he 11ould get it. I do not know wh0ther the shipping and other combines which the hon. nemoor is con­neckd with get too ;:mch: no doubt tho han. member r<'"eives Yec·y himdsom'· dividends from those so•1rcc With regard to agricul­ture the Troa urn· ; :<ys-

" From a cultivation point of view the comin7. .-e,·,on promiseJ all that can be df'Jir.~d and in all branches of rural pursuits e'xcepting the sugar industry, there is enthusiastic activity."

He savs there is enthusiastic activity in tho ctiltivation industry, and yet a few line3 later on lw has to ;. lmit that th£re are 15,000 anes le'' under cu]+,ivat;on this year than last year. IIow docs he reconcile those two stateinents? They are not capable of r-econciliation. They ~are mere "YVord.s, words, words !" simply to blind the people. (Government laughter.)

The TREASURER: You are trying to upset it, but you cannot succeed; it is too good for .'fOU.

Mr. LENNON: It is a positive fact. The han rrentleman made some references to the sug~r"'indu3try, which I think are very lame. He is putting the whole of the blame on the union,,. He ~avs-

" It is to' be hoped, l1owever, tha~ the· <>ffortc now bcinO" made for a .,:ttrsfac­torv adjusbne.·nt ~f the difficulty will be· nnt'irely successful.''

I ask him point blank, what are the efforts? The TREASURER : I will reply to yon.

Mr. LEN~OX: I ask the hon. gentlema~ what are the efforts which are being made . He refus<>.l to ·answer.

The TREASURER : No, I do not.

Mr. LENNON: He is not game to answer, because h<:: knows that he and those asso­ciated with him wa.nt the wages reduced.

The TREASURER : No. Mr. WHITE: Untrue!

Mr. LENNON : During the whole of my career of twenty-seven years in North Queensland, on every occasion that any wages scale was fixed-whether by consent or mutual arrangement, or by the Govern­ment-the farmer always thought he :vas paying too much. The farmer has got mto the way of complaining-he cannot help complaining-and no matter what scale of wages is fixed, whether the Federal Govern· ment makes it £1 2s. 6d., £1 lOs., or £116~. a week one whine comes forward, tha.t It is more' than the industry can bear. I have· had practical experience, and I say that cane­growers in North Queensland-I do not know anything about the South, I say that the South does not grow cane at all successfully, anc. the mill at Nerang is nothing but scrap­iron-the mill ought to oo pulled down :::nd put into thE> scrap-heap, as they are wastmg money in trying to make it a success. I have it from an expert sugar-grower. a per­sonal friend whom I have known for many

Supply. [25 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 1301>

years, that it is not po.,,iblf' for ·an0 man, or any '~'"'t of men, to 1nake a ,;.rccc·,s of th{! Ncran£; Mill. Then. why spend any more money on it? My advice to the Government is to shut it up, and to erect rentral mills in my district. On the Estimates for 1912-13 there is a sum of £26,000 for sugar-mills at Babinda, Darradgee, and J arvisfield.

Mr. WHITE : There should not be a penny for them.

Mr. LENNON : The hon. g.ontleman has got his mill and everything he wants, and he does not want anyone else to get any­thing. I wish to ask the Treasurer where dr'."S "h~ ~ tT;'Jrv: ft--ld Sug-;:q~--n•ill 'f'Olne in'! It is not a mill authorised-by the Sugar Works Act, and it is not one of the mills recom­mended by the Sugar Commission. But I suppose the company concerned got the ear of the hon. gentleman, and he has sub­stituted the J arvisfield "dill for the South JohnctGne ::\lill.

The TREASURER : You will hear all about that in good tim!J.

:Ylr. LENNON: I understand that the han. gentleman and the Premier have fre­quently stated that they would carry out the recommendations of the Sugar Commis­sion, and now the claims of the South Johnstone district are cast on one side.

The TREASURER: Where did you hear that?

Mr. LENNON : It is mates that J arvisfield South J ohnston0. Does deny my statement?

shown on the Esti­is · substituted for

the hon. gentleman

The TREASURER : I will deal matter by and by.

with that

Mr. LENNON : Does the hon. gentleman say my statement is not correct?

The TREASURER: I am not going to be drawn.

Mr. LENNON: The hon. gentleman smiles and sneers at my statement, but I contend that it is absolutely true. I shall not refer to the Mourilyan harbour, becaus8 the han. gentleman takes offence if one refers to anything in connection with one's own district.

The bell indicated that the hon. member's time had expired.

Mr. KIRWAN (Brisbane) : I rise with a feeling of diffidence to address myself to this important Statement which has been placed before us for our consideration. The Statement endeavours to show, as far as the Treasurer thinks it is his duty to show it the actual position of the finances of th.:; country. The first thing that strikes me in connection with the ·matter is the changed attitude of the Government with regard to their financial policy since the election. Dur­ing that memorable campaign the Govern­ment made all sorts of promises. They were not only going to carry out a railway policy already approved by the House, but they intended to add to that policy, and go in for an extensive scheme for opening up the country. They were also going in for a large amount of immigration, and, to use the Premier's own phrase, they were going full steam ahead. While the elections were in progress, I pointed out that the Govern­ment would not be able to carry out that policy, owing to the tightness of the London

money market. I also made reference to the omission from the Premier's m .nifecto of any statement concerning the finances. In view of the financial position which h>1s been explained to the Committee, and which the Premier mu<t have known would have to be faced sooner or later, he should h>1ve taken the country into his confidence and stated in a straiGhtforward manner where the GovBrnment <>xpected to )Cet thP money necPssary to carry out their public works' policy. I stated from a public platform that they would not be able to get the :noney they expected. Hon. members who drffered from me lcughcd and sneered at my re­marks, >1nd said the Government would get the monev; and the Treasurer urged upon the elect;;rs the nece~sity of returning a Liberal Government to power.

'fhe TREASURER: And they took my advice.

Mr. KIRWAN: Yes, and after having taken the han. gentleman's advice, they found that the first thing the Government did when the House met was to suspend the Standing Orders in order to pass a Bill enabling the Government t'? pay 4 per ce':'t. interBst to money-lenders m London. With regard to the railway polic:y: of .the Gove.rn­ment and their general polwy of expanswn and development, I would remind the Com­mittee that they assured the elector~ that the money required would be forthcom.mg to uarry out that policy. Not only d1d the ~upporters of the Ministry endorse that statement, but the Press re-echoed it. I shall quote a sample of the alleged know­ledge of those people with regard to th<:> financial position of the State. I men­tioned on a previous occasion in this _House that when the Premier was speakmg at Goodna, and was asked to give so~e idea. of his financial policy, he wave~ his hand in an airy sort of way and said that the credit of the Liberal Government was much better than that of any member of the str!ke committee. That "as his method of dealmg with a very serious matter, which has since become so costly for Queensland. The Bris­bane a ourier of the 19th April last, in a special article, said-

" In most instances the loans in the· Australian States were originally ob­tained at a higher rate of interest .than th>1t at which money can now be obtamcd, and so far from a thing to be dreaded, th" falling due of some of the Quensland loans would be welcomed at the present time for the amounts would be immedi­ately taken up at a less rate of interest than that now being paid. For inrctance, on the figures mentioned by the Socia!Jst candidates, £14,000,000, 4 per cent. m­terest works out at £560,000 per annum. The l~ans referred to could easily be re­issued at 3 per cent. Victoria, New South Wales, New Zealand, and South Australia have current loans at that rate, which would mean an annual saving of £140,000."

But what is the fact? That they cannot get .oL2,000,000 at 3 per cent., let alone­£14,000,{]00: and that is a sampl0 of the misrepresentation by which the people c;f Queensland were induced on the 27th. April last to vote for the Treasurer and Ius sup­porters. I only quote this to justify the at­titude that member_. of this party took up in connection with the financial position of Queensland, when they pointed out that the·

lrfr. J{irwan.]

1306 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Government would be unable to get the loan money they promised all and. sundry they would be able to spend if the' were re­turned to ppwer.

Mr. MACROSSAN: How would the Labour party have got it?

Mr. KIRWAN : When members of the Labour party are paid the Jalarie, of Min­isters of the Crown, and when thny are en­trnsted with th~ Gov<;rnment of the country, the han. gentleman w1Il then have the oppor­tunity of criticising thc_m so far as their dealings with loans are concerned. However I would like to say that the Federal Labou; party han~ demonstrated, beyonD all ques­tion of doubt, that from amonget the rank~ of the work-,-=-,rs C::Lll be found rnen vvho, wh, n entrusted with the Government of the nation, are "hie to run tho affairs o fthe nation without running to " uncle" for loans.

Mr. MAcROSSAN: They can spend money.

Mr. KIRWAN: The han. member may talk about spending money, and Federal extrava­gance, or dleged extravagance, and at the same time we hear the han. gentleman tell­ing tho people of Queensland that the Fed­~ral Governrnont is sweating its employees m the Post Office. I venture to expre<s my Dpinion that the Federal Labour party have Demonstrated that the affairs of Australia can be run without recourse to the money­lender, and the Commonwealth Government is in tho happ,- pooition o:' being able to lend the Treasurer money whc•n he was in very sore straits, and when he could not get the money on the English money market. It was admitted by the Minister for Agricul­ture that going on the English money market would have meant disaster. The Federal Treasurer then was in the position of being able to lend £1,000,000 to Queensland, and I think that the Labour party have demon­stroted. in the management of the J<'ederal financc·s that they are able to get sufficient revenue to mod current expenditure. What is more, they have been able to disprove all the allegation' that were made against thmn at the last Federal election, and they hrwe silenced once. and for ,a]l the calamity howlers-the men who predicted that if the Labour party got the reins of power into their hands, capital would run out of the •country. Y eu have only to look round Bris­b::tne to-da~: to Rl>'" largQ nulnb"-r~ of big, ~x­pensivc buildings going up, which is suffi­cient evidcnc'> o£ what tho"e allegations were worth. Notwithshnding tf,at we have a Federal land tax, we find there is a bigger dcmaril fm land to-day than mer, and we have the fact recorded in thC' Treasurer's Statement that last vear was a record ona in land settlement. So, after all. the farmers -about whom our friends on the Treasury benches expres' •uch profuse concern-have not been frightened. by the land tax, which is not going, in any event, to touch the bona fide settler. It is only going to hit hard the land speculator and cxnloiter-the men who put a fence round 20,000 or 30,000 acrf., of land and refuse to usp it-who vvait until the Treasurer spends loan money in the neighbourhood, and then sell it back to the Government at £5 or £6 per acre. The Government then sells it at a higher rate to the selector, and that is why the farmers <:annot pa.y a fair rate of wages to their ·employees.

The TREASURER : What about the £300 ex­-<Jmption.

[1.fr. Kiru·an.

Mr. KIRWAN : This land tax doe' not hit the farmer at ,,,n. It hits the man who is of no use to Queensland, or any other State of the Commonwealth. The han. member for Merthyr was very d.iscurs_ive this ._,vening with regard to loans just fallmg due. I happened to look up a speech of that member when hD, like other members of the GovernP1ent, 1,yas facing the e-lectors, and he spoke in this strain. In the Brisbane Courh ,· of 11th April, it io reported-

" Mr. Welsby said everyone. knew that £l±,Gll0.GOO had to be repa1d, but ~f the 'ociali"tic party got mto power :t would be much more difficult to ge_t It taken up again, and QueenslaJ?-d mig~~ have to pay a higher rate of mterest.

The socialistic party did not get into power, and Mr. W clsby was returned, and the very first thing Queensland was asked t_o do was to agree to a rise in the rate of mterest.

The TREASURER: Have you·looked up what N ev< South Wales had to pay for its money?

.Mr. KIRWAN: I am not here to discuss the financial administration of New South Wales. I am just pointing out the different stor,- the han. members went to the coun­try "with .to the story they came down_to this House with as soon as Jt met. With regar·d to the policy adoptod by the. Govern­ment in connection with thmr ra1lways, I think it will be genera!Iy admitted by mem­bers on both sid.es of the House that lf there is one thing that is going to S!3nd Queensland ahead, it is railway exp':nswn. (Hear, hear l) We are unfortunate I? the respect that we have no. gr'!at navig_ab~e rivers flowing from our mtenor, and 1t. "' essential that if our progress Js to be malli­tained, railway construction must take pla~ Having granted that, the next questiOn IS to consider at what rate we should spend our loan moneys. There s~.ou_ld be. no cut­ting down for I consider Jt madVJsable to spend £3,000,000 one yPar, and. cut it down to £2,000,000 the next. By the larg.~r ex­penditure you induced a large nUII?-ber of men to come here. The Government mduce~ 2 ODO navvies to come out to complete th1s groat railway scheme of ours, and now a large number of those men are compelled to o-o idle bc:•ause the GovNnmcnt cannot get the necessary amount of money to carry out the work. The Government were warned that k·an money was not inexhaust_ible: that thev would have to pull up; that It was not a question of full steam ahead, but a. ques­tion of taking the Daily Mail's adv!ce to slow down. I will now ·quote a Bnsbane d,aily to show the value of th~s':' journals, _so far as knowing the exact pos1t10n. of affairs is concerned. The Labour party 1s <:c<;msed of knowing nothing of financial admmJstra­tion, and these leading journals. arrogate to themseh·,,s that they know eyerythmg. Yet,_ as I have already pointed out, the mformatwn they gave to the genool pubhe was absolutely unreliable. Here is an instanC<l. The pa~;er is discussing th.e p~sition, ~fter. the :;:emrer went down the r1ver m the Lucmd.a, m con­nection with a trip of one of the local traders' associations her-e. The Premier WC'nt down with a party, and here is. what comes out on the following day in the Telegraph of 27th May-

" The Government cannot plead lack of money to carry out the railway pol~cy on which it has entered. The Premier

Supply. [25 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 1307

'himself admitted that no such difficulty lay in the way. It is safe to say that, if the British invPgtor were asked to lend Queensland .£20,000,000 for railwu.y con­struction, he would rush to accommodate her at the lowest rate of interest. That is ••J, because the British invector knows that the money would be safely .and rn-c.­fitably inv~3tr·d. Th8y must go full steam ahead, and overtake the worst drought that can affect tho country. That is the policy nmY p:.s ing."

I will now quote from the CoUJ'ier of the 13th June. I find. that our fri<onds generally rely on the Courier to give the public in­formation, and we know the attitude adopted by those tv. o papers at th0 last election.

We know the attitude of those [9.30 p.m.] two journals towards the Labour

party. During the last election ·they compamd the han. member for \V a r· rego and myself to the red revolutionists of Francf'-, a most incorrect in1pression to en­deavour to give to the public mind. ThP Courier of 13th June, 1912, when the actual position of the mom•y mark,·t was known to :the Go\rornm{'flt, said this-

" Railway construction may be slightlv retarded by the need for loan money's additional to thos0 being spent, but, no doubt, this very month, seeing that there has r><c·cn a surplus of deposits awaiting profitable inve.stments in all our finan­cial institutions and the railway develop­ment should be pushed on as far as pos­sibk in good and bad seasons, the re­turns being sure and the investments absolut<:>ly sure.

"Need there be any hesitation in re­sponding to the call of Providc:r;ce, humanity, as well as of the Premrer, 'Full steam ahead?'"

Now, I think we have them evidence that the people were given the impr<:>ssion, very wrongly, that this railway construction was to be gone on with; that all the Treasurer had to do as to go to the British money­lender and ask the £20,000,000 for railw.n,y construction, and he would lm offer-ed £40,000,000. We know that tho money mar­ket was tightening OJ.t this period, and I say that a,s far as the Press of this city is con­cern<'d, it knows v<:>ry little about the finances of th" world, o'I- the money mark-et in Great Britain. With ~egard to the action of the C:.wernment in suspending the con­struction of ce1~tain Jines, I think sufficient has already J::.oen said, pa~ticularly by the m.embers inhTE-'3t{·d in the railT.~<';,~s promised to be gone on with during the 0lection, and since promised by the Premier on 31st July, bu£ •_iop:v~d since then, '\VhiJe oth\~r Jines have been gone on with. While I criticise -the Gov~r:1ment and find fault with thoir administration, I a1n not above giving com­mendation where I think it is d0served; an-d I say that tho Secretary for Retilways is to be congratulated for what he has dono in the direction of r.aisiP-g the wages of the lower-paid men in the railway servioo. I say, as one who has spent a few years in that s<:>rvice, that Queensland can boast of th-e most efficient body o£ railwav men in Aus­tra:ia; and I think the g{moral running of tho railwa;;; in this State proves that, whether from a revenue point of view or from the point of view of the safety of the travelling public. (Hear, hear !) There :have been very few railway accidents in

Queensland; and when I read of the acci­dent in Mclbourn·,, th0 other day, I had no he,itation in saying that in Queensland, with the regula.tions of +h0 Chpa:rhnen~, and the .;trict way in which they are carrwd out by the locomotive .men, no such acei<1•'nt caul~ have hapr·'·ncd here. (Hear, hc·ctr !) Acci­d<'nts have hancwnnd in Quo,ensland; but with very kw- exceptions they h,"-e been such accidents as ·.·1igho have happened to th") rrlo3t c~rzful driv~l\ fireman, or g-uard employed anywhere. I am glad to know, as an ex-ntihv ay man, that the Sccr<'tary for Rai:wavs has' be<,n iEflucntial enough to open the dos? fist u~ the Tre~:·mrer and c,ct a f<:>w extra thousand pounds for the Raih ay De­parhnent.

The. TREAfit:REll.: Does it not show what a :.ympathctic Trc ~suc·cr you have got? (Laughter.)

Mr. KIRWAN: And I am glad +{} know the particular dirf'ctirn in which tlkse in­cr-eases are to be given. There is onR sec­tion of men to whom I wish to <"11! atten­tion. It is a s'ction that was overlooked last year. I refer to the foremen p.Jrters. It wac, •tat<od last vear that every man get­ting under £300 \Vas entitled to a risB or woul·d get one If that was the intention of the Secretary for Railways, the intention was not carried out as far as they were con­cerned. I happened to be one of them ; and I say that .at a station like the Central, the principal station in Qu<:>ensland, whem the;e is heavy traffic to be managed, and !"here m holiday time you have to keep movmg, and there is no such thing ll.S the Government stroke I think the position of the foremen porte;s should be consider<"!. If the depart­ment want able and capable men the de­partment must pay them; and that will be found the cheapest policy in. the_ long_ run. Outside th0 Government service· 1t JS tound much cheap<:>r to pay good wages LD good men than to nav bad men anythmg a,t all;

· and I hope the 'Minister will r<:>memJ:x,r this particular class of men. They have large responsibilities on their shoulder' ,-,here the traffic is heavy, and only to g1ve thorn 6d. per day more than the . man the fir:>t day )1,: joins the department JS most unfa1r. In Sydney, a man who has charge ,of only <;>no platform gets 9s. or lOs. per wq; at "he Central Station here men who have three times as much work to do only get 7s. 6d. Now they are to gd 8s., .an~ I hope they will get more. One r0gulat1on states tha~ at first-class station'. these men arc to get first-class rc;tn·o of pay; but that is inter­pret+'d so that these men do not get what they '·hould get, One other -vurd abo_ut !he Cnntral Station. \\'bile I ha Hl no obJ ec~Ion to tho Government spf:nding mane~: outsh.le, I hope they _will ask the Engineer'~ Bra~ch to do somethmg to make the Centra, StatiOn worthy of the name. At present it is a dis­grace to the city. W0 _want to ha_v0 up;to­date methods in rebtwn to ma1l trams, passengers, and luggage~ anr! I hope scpL3 of the money spent on th;e Central ~tatwn will be spent in the directwn of. m-:km~ the station more cDmfortable and brmgmg It up to date. Anyon·.' who has travelled in th0 other States will not be impressed by the workino- of the Central Station, hut will see conside~able room for improvement in ~he direction I have mentioned. In connect.wn with the returns from the railways, the sug­g<:>stion has been thrown out th>:t rates should be reduced; but I do not Lhnk that wou~d b;; a wiilo policy. There may bo wme

Mr. Kirwan.]

1308 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

narticulnr nJa-3 of gooclJ on which tho rates migh~ l· ~, ''iuc :d, but, , -:-~Il<'l~all;.' spc-.:Gking, the ratt' _In Que ·Finnrl .a,.re _fu1rly reason­able. ~nnt..:Lul:trl2. in thl~ 1

0Uti.h rn division. I1~ 1~-:)~ip"' at _Table :\, re::1ting to the F1na~ =·lai L ... L~~nt, ,\ ~ seo th~ reiurns for the diF -,.- :r~ 1;ailw.c, , on '"lpi a! inw,ted; and v 0 0nu,

1 ~ 1a.; the _mo~u~t. per_ c,_~_~t. on

railw,- m , c , -outl1cro:t d:v1 -IOn 1s .;;,3 l5s. 6d.: tJ10 Cc Ltrn~ .(l~y~ ion, £'+ 1~". 4-d. _: the , ='S,orthern, £6 9,·,: and, th,e ~1~-ka:·, ·,,. ~d. I do l.·Jt '~'_1., tnc L~--: ext.:- a rt-_'~ ;1 n. for ~.be Ccn1·· and .1\ortlwrn lines ha-; .n.:1y {'onnr· the Cl mplaint of sornt· han. 1n. '1lhf'r tho f·1:r2s and freiG"ht'J Ll tho.·.·· lint r.o f'XC8SS1VO COlll-

pareJ ;::ith dw:-•; on lie >..s in :C.:..outhorn Qe~;eL Ja 1 ~d,; _I, Lll1 1_1ot 'L'1_!1Versrtnt ."'-'\ ,:th the fare·-_, '<111(1 IrclgL.::S, b, ~ I JU~t rn-r'lt·-.J-n th:- -;e threH ': ~l-Hlcnts tJ r~~lO\V tlw.t th.r ~)orccntago :i-~ lTIU~ '1 i ·H~ _, ior t1w :--;vrth-0rn an-1 Central Raih·- -1.ys tha::-1 for th._• Southf'rH, a .. ;d one would n tura:ly think that in thL South -wh-:-r(• tf--::'rc- is /l, r_-re,.:tor ~'Ol-ul.ation and closc·r _, tt1 enle~~t, nntl all oth2r things t.un­siden"-"1. that t}w- r-eturn for that raih1 J.Y wouH 1:' much b ctn. \\ ith rr'f'aN:i to im­migr 1tion. This side of the llouse h.•s gene­rally l •en ar"used of being against immi­gratior. I may P:l:V that I 'lm not against immiq,·1 at ~on, Lut I ern against .a policy .,,hich h!'ings irnmigr;tnts hf'ro 1yithout dis­criminc•tion, ,:md -., ithout anj definite scheme .a .·J ,-..-hxt 1--.·ill Lo d~-IH ~vitn th{~-11 1vhcn they gee here, and particularly the class of immigr ,n"·._ that \ve are g-ettin'g- hf'rc. I am of the opinion that if mad{ Queensland sufficic_,:J:.T at':rac: iv~ Wf· T',Tould not only get imLJi' rants fron1 t11e nritlsh Isl-es, but we would g-, t thrmJ fr01:1 America as well. There aro larg-E" nurnb::>rs of ve!'y d0sirablo emi­graLi· '.,ho have· )wen for<:~·d out there by the lan·~-,cxp1oitation s<~1em+''' of millionaires and otrwr>, s'ld thev are pradirallv forced to Df-1:-r'r countries tO get land in Order to make .. living, and I hor1e the Premier and tho Gcvf'rnmf'nt will not los<J anv time in making special arrangements to a'ttract this ckts~ of i1n1nigrant, because, to my mind, it is a V·'rv dhirable class. The·; are a cJ.ass of P<'opk. who have a certain' amount of capital, and, as r,,. rule, they generally have famili·' thot are more or leE,; rcctred, and we arf' not put to the expense of educating their children, and, as a rule, they are better wealth-producers, because thr·y have largo familir ·· l<"l·o arc able to work. There is just ono other matt<'r in conn<Jction with the immigration queqtion. I have one or two ext--uds to which I would lih to call the attention of the Government, and, no doubt, thf' PrPinicr will rna lc0 it his business to see if tlJFre i' an~- truth in them. Dealing with a statement made that there was an un­desirable {'las., of immigrants coming here, the Tr lr rrmph, in a sub-leader on the 31st May, sai-d--

" But in equal justice to the truth it cannot be denied that a very appreCI­able perc<:>ntago-far too large-has been ·ck•eidedlv of a olae.; known ·as undesir­abk·;. It is quite natural that charitable organisations throughout Great Britain shou!d be anxious to quit themselves of tho burden of expense for such undesir­ablee in their districts. But Queensland cannot afford to be the dumping-ground no matter how few they may he."

The PREMIER : It is many, many months since the organisations at home had an oppor­tunity, because the immigrants had all been nominated.

[Mr. Kirm~n.

Mr. KIRWAN: I think it is generall), B~reod bY members on this s'de of the House· that the IwminaLnd class of immi.Vl\"nts is the best claSi·, and I rna:- point out _that a large number of people who come L re o. the· undesirable clas3--

The PR"1.1IER: It i-. not the fault of the organisation at home.

Mr. KIRWAN: What I -.·:ant to make clPfinite about the statement is, that when you haYo immigru.nts on th,., ;.Jalp principle, a:s one hon. rneinher ffi('tltioned, at £1 per head it is a matter of absolute indiffe1·ence to the ~gent what class of man he gets, ;o long as he gets the £l, and I thinl< the. Pre!"Jier is wise in dropping that systBm of Immigra­tion and going in for the nominated system. He has m<mded his w.1.ys in that partwular. \Yith regard to the increcse in the Educa­tion vote. That also is a vote that nobody will challenge, as far as the increase is con­cerned. It is a iair recognition of the splen­did work done by one of the best cla:'S of public servants we have. The only thmg I regret is, that the Government has seen fit to introduce from England " number of t~«chers for our high schools. I think of the· tear-hPr-. of Queensland-in fact, the teachers of Australia-that their known educational abilities and attainments are such that they are well fitted to take any po--ition in con­nection with the high schools, and I there­fore r<>gret that the blue ribbon of tho .ser­vice in this particular respect, was not given to o'ur own people. Dealing with tJ:e ques­tion of harbour improvements, I thmk that the money in connection with the. new cut­ting that will be opened in about a month, is monev well spent, particular!} wh~n we recognise that there is an incre~s~ . m the larger type of vessels at presef!t Vlsrtmg our shores and I think the exnenditure has been well j,',stified. I al'i_o note· with pleasure that the actual amount expended is less than the estimated cost. I would like to know what action the Government havp taken in con­nection with providing- a proper boat for the pilot service. I recollect seeing in the Press some time ago that the matter was .m;rder discussion by the Cabinet, or .by the Mmr~ter whose busineb·s it is to deal w1th the questiOn, of transferring the Government steamer " Otter" for that particular Class of work. I hope the Government will do this, and I hope that thev will recognise that the men arc compelled 'to go out in very bad weather.

The TREASURER : They are not . compelieck to go out in bad w~·ltthC'r. The mstructron given to them is that they are not to go out when there is any risk.

Mr. KIRWAN: I am glad those instruc­tions have been given. but it only goes to prove the statement that they have not a proper boat in which to go out. The Go­vernment should get a better boat than the one at present engaged in the service. I do not think the Treasurer will deny that there is room for improvement. There may be a class of weather in which no boat would be asked to go out, but still, if we had a bet~er boat than the present one, very often assrst­ance could be rendered to shipping- which can­not be given at the present time. Refer­ence was made during the debate to the sug3;r industrv, and reference is also made to It in the 'Treasurer's Financial Statement, and I rep-ret that the Treasurer has seen fit to indulge in a kind of calamity howl.

The TREASURER: I thought somebody said to-night that I have been cracking the State up too much.

Supply. [25 Sllll'TEM:BER.] Supply. 1309

Mr. KIRW A~: In connection with the .sugar industry, we have the old cry. 1 ·quite remember the kanaka days, when it was free!.) stated bv men who held prominent positions in the politic.tl world of Queensland that if you take away the kanaka labour the industry wab done. \V e know, as a matter of fact, that kanaka labour was taken away and the industry thrived, and it is employing a larger amount of white labour than it ever employed in th~ kanaka days, and we also know that there IS a larg<:>r area under sugar to-day, and we also know, to our cost, that the dividends of the Colonial Sugar Refining Company are bigger to-day than e·;er in the history of th<' sugar industry.

The PREMIER : Not bigger in Queensland.

Mr. KIRWA::'\1: A fair amount is made in Queensland. I believe, notwithstanding the statements of some of our political opponents and I think they ought to be perfectly fai{, in this matter, that the Federal Government is not bent in ruining the sugar industry. I think the Federal Government have proved that they want to put the sugar industry on a fairly solid basis.

The PREMIER : Why not equalise the excise and bounty?

Mr. KIRWAN : I believe it would be a _good idea to equalise the excise and bounty ; I think it would have a good effect. I very much regret to see that those men who, at the present time work hard and long hours while engaged in the arduous task of plant­ing and growing cane, do not get a fair price for their sugar-cane in the different mills of Queensland. I regret that they do not see in which direction their inwrest lies when they ally themselves to their natural enemies. It would be better for the sugar growers to ally themselves with the labourers in that industry, so that they could demand a fair return for what they contribute to that industry. They are the two great fac­tors who contribute to the production of <Jane, and they are the two factors who receive the least remuneration. While the growers are not getting a fair return in the shape of payment for their cane, it is not unreasonable for them to cry out that they cannot pay the wages that are asked for, but they would be in a posi­tion to pay better wages if they got a better return for their cane when it is grown. Reference has been made to the meat trust, and the Premier made a statement-no doubt he made it in good faith-that they could not get a grip on the meat industry in Queensland. I differ from the Premier. While it is generally admitted that while >the railways remain as the State property, there is not such a possibility of the trust g.,tt.ing a firm grip on the meat industry as in any State or country where the rail­ways are in private hands, we know that in America the power of the trust is largely

·augmented, and their powers of crushing <mt opponents are considerably increased, by the fact that they have an ally in the rail­ways. !I). Queensland, they have no such ally. But, suppose this trust came here with money. It is said that they have got £3,000,000 to buy out other meat companies,

-or else crush them. If companies are un­willing to be bought out, then the trust will resort to the good old principle of trusts ·and wipe them out. We are told that when the trust comes, there will be a big pdce for ·cattle. Some of the pastoralists welcome the

trust with open arms, because they will get better prices for their stock. That may be true while the competition is going on, but once the trust secures absolute control of the meat industry of Queensland, and of Australia, what will become of the pas­toralists then? They will have to leave their cattle grow on the pastures, or else sell them to the trust at their price. The railways do not come into consideration :<t all. They may say to the Minister for Rail­ways that instead of carrying the stock on the railways they will find some ot~er method of dealing with them. I loo~<: WI~h feelings of apprehension on anything m the shape of the advent of the Yankee meat trust here. I hope that the Premier will prove that what he said to the people last year was correct-that he had suffici<o;nt power to deal with these trusts. Let him oxorf'ise that power, not only in the in­terests of Queensland, but in the interests of those engaged in stock-raising, because, once the trust secures the control of the meat output of Australia, then we will h':'ve to pay the trust's price. I recollect readmg that in America they boycotted the trust by refraining from eating meat, owing to tJ:e exorbitant prices asked for, and we w~ll probably have the same thing in Australia when we have all the competition wiped out. There is another thing that strikes me as being strange in connection with th~ meat industry. I believe we pay a subs1dy of £26,000 to the Orient Company.

Mr. FoRSYTH: We do not pay it now. Mr. KIRWAN: We used to pay it, at

any rate, and it was paid for the purpose of enabling that company to take our butter and meat to the old country.

At 9.55 p.m., Mr. STODART resum~od the chair. Mr. KIRWA~: The strange thing about

these vessels taking uur products 'o Engbnd, is that they ou,n take meat and butter t_o England and sell it cheaper there than It can be sold in Queensland. Tho Londoner can get a better grade of Que"nsland butter at a G~lP._tper rate than the rr1an hv1n ~~ next door to the factory where it is made can get it. It seems stran::;e to me th ·,t _it _can be carried 16,CJO milec, and aft r freight and other charg-es o.re p.1jd on it. it ean be sold chcape1· thon it is sold m Queensland. There hns been some discussion on the ques­tion of the Savino·s Banks end it has givea an opportnnity f.;;_. the di~play of the little Queenslander spirit. It has given an oppor­tunity to our friends on t11c Government benches to go up against th_e Federal_ <?o­vernment once more. I \viii give my opmiOn on this matter the same as other member,,; on this side, although we will ~ct a sound rating from the hon. member for .Mu:rumba. I do not think the State was wise m turn­ing down the offer mad.e by the Common­wealth in connection with the Savings Banks. The State will not have the amount of money at its disposal that it has at the pr_e­sent time. Although the Treasurer refers m glowing terms to the fact that he has opened over 400 branches of the Savings Bank in Queensland and although he says that Queensland~rs will stick to their own State Bank he will find in two or throe years' time that the Treasurer of the day will !~ave an entirely different story to tell. It 1s a strange thing that some peopl0 always_ d? a lot of squealing when their own prmm­ples are applied to themselves. One great

Mr. Kirwan.]

1310 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

principle which has always been held up to us, and on which we have been lectured, is that the march of civilisation will stop un­less that splend.id principle of competition and individualism is adopted. Now that the Government are getting a little bit of com­petition from the Commonwealth Govern­ment thPy refer to it in any but complimen­tary terms. The Government were unwise in turning do"n the offer made to them, and the statement of the hon. member for Herbert will be justified before another Fin_ancial StatBment is presented. In dealing WitJ1 the questiOn of revenue and expendi­ture, we have had. certain tables presented to us. The Treasurer estimates that he will receive a certain amount of 1~evonue, and a certain amount of expenditure is also neces­sary to carry on the administration of the country. Yet we find, when the Statement comes along, that these Estimates were very far out. I admit that it is difficult to estimate the revenue, but the Trea­surer ought to be nearer in his eetimate of the expenditure than he has been. We find creeping in every year to an alarm­ing extent in each one of our Financial Statements a large amount of unauthorised expenditure. We will take the question of

immigration. This House, in its [10 p.m.] wisdom, decided that a certain

amount was to be voted· for irn. migration, and ;ret we have the Ministry without any authority, voting from th~ revenue of the State another considerable addition to that amount. If that principle is going to be admitted, then I say that this Houoe exercises no control over the expendi­ture ; and it is next door to a farce for the Government to come down to the House and ask for certain expenditure, if, as soon as the recess comes on, they put another £50,000 or £100,000 down just as they think fit. This House should have the control of the ptlr. e strings, and there should be no unauthorised expenditure, excnpt in the direction of absolutely unforeseen expendi­ture-something which nobody could hav-e anticipated would arim, and which it was absolutely necessar;. to spend-except for th. t reason, there should be no unauthori'""d expenditure. I think in this respect the Hou•o should he,ve a firmer hold on 'he purse strings. If they have not, then the pa·•sing of the Estimates is more or less a wask of time. I express the hope that vv·e are going to have go0d seasons. I recognise that this pu.rty is just as anxious as our friend'; on the opposite side to see Queens­land go ahead, an<! we ail recognise that unless we get plentiful rains at certain times of the ~'ear it is immaterial what plans or schemes this House may lay down­whether in the shape of railway expenditu:t·o or a•1;vthing else-there will be no progress. The general opinion is that we are entering on a period of drow;ht, and the Governmen. t; om·ht to be very careful as far as unneces­sary expenditure is concerned. I trust that the estimate of revenue in particular will be fullv rcali:,nd, and that we will not find omoel·.es in any financial difficulty. w-G

may criticise the Government and strongly condemn their financial policy, bnt there is no one worthy of the name of a Queens­lander cr an Australian who would like t<a see this or any Government in financia 1 dimcultic s. Sometimes Yre are accused a. f being enemies of Queensland, and it :1.;;; alkg0d that we would like to see the Ga.,_

f.llr. Kirwan.

vernment in a tight position. ..\s far as I am concerned, I repudiate any such s;rgges· tion, and I think I can do that on oehalf of the members of this party. We are JUSt as anxious to see Queensland go ahead cs any member on the other side, although we have very different ideas as to the methods to be adopted. Therefore, I hope th~t the anticipations of the Government Will be realised. I also hope that the money market will not become any tighter, and that when tho Government find it necessary to go to. the London market they will be able to p;-o­curo their loans without paying extra m­tercst or charges. \Y e have to admit that tho people of Queensland have to " pay the piper," and. it is therefore no oon.solatwn for us to be afforded the opportun_Ity, _by ~a~ financial administration, of gettmg m orr~I­cism such as this. I hope Queensland :Will go ahead. As an Australian, I am anxious to see not onh- the St<lte but Federal matters progres3. In" conclusion, I. would like ~~ express, on behalf of thD railway men, thep appreciation of what the Secretary for Rail­wavs has done. He has made no song about it;· he has come forward mode,tly and stateru that he believes that this money Dught to ?e expended. From what I know of the rail­way service, there is no b_od:> of men who are more entitled to that morease. I hope that the revenue of Queensland w_ill ?xpand, and that the railway revenue will Increase at a greater ratB throug~ the year, so that the position next year will enable th-; hon. gentleman to make a somewhat similar statement.

:'IIr. vYILLIAMS (Chartas Towers) : . In order that I may not take up too '?':'-ch time, I will confine my remarks to mming mat­ters in connection with the Statement. I wish to congratulate the Treasurer on the admirable Financial Statement ~e has p~t before the country. I am 9mte oer~am that, generally speaking, it 'Yil_l be hailed with delight. In regard to mi!'mg matters, I was sorry, with the Premier, th~t the leader of the Opposition did not ~hmk fit to say something about that great Industry. I may say that the origin of the change m mining members arose, as ~a! as ChartBrs Towers is concerned, to a VISit of the ~re­mier, perhaps a year before the ~leotwn. He had an opportunity then of seeing how our great city was dwindling away. I may say that within the last few years there has probably gone away from that town a. whol.e town itself-probably 5,000 or. 6,000 mhabi­tants-and it struck the Premier that some­thing might be done to that place.

Mr. RYAN: It ought to have struck him

without having to go there.

Mr. WILLL'l.MS : It has not struck hon. members on that side for years. There was one thing the Premier thought might be done-that was to encourage the people there to deal with their lands. I hope some good will be done in that way, but it is a hard thing to induce mining men to tak;e up agriculture, especially when the land IS not as good as in other parts of the State. In regard to the appeals m~de }JY han. members for mining communities, It would seem to me that some members here think that this subsidy is not a grant bnt a gift­that this subsidy is asked for by members for

Supply. [25 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 1311

mining communities as a sort of dole, or charity, to be spread round the different communities, including Kangaroo Hills.

Mr. LENNON : Hear, hear!

Mr .• W_ILLIAMS : That was not the point. The reelmg that members for mining com­munities had was this, that they should do something which would induce the Govern­ment to put money into the industry by helping the State at large as well as those places in particular. The value of the gold produced m Queensland since the beginning of the State is about £73,000,000, and the ~hare of Charters Towers is, roughly speak­mg, £25,000,000, or about one-third of the whole.

Mr. FOLEY: Who has had the most of that money?

Mr. WILLIAMS : I shall come to that by and by. So;ne hon. members have talke<.. about tho .mmeral output of the State, and I shoul~ lrke ~o quote some fi15ures in that connectwn whwh wrll, I believe, astonish some hon. members. The £25,000,000 worth of gold produced by the Charters Towers field was obtained from an area of from 2, 000 to 3, 000 .acres, and £25,000,000 is more than the value of all the metals outside golc1 produced in Queensland. The men on Char­ters Towers earn good wages, and there was a city on the field containing a population of 25,000 persons who consume a lot of general produce grown b~ other people in other parts of the State. '\Vhen it was found after v, or king the ground for some years: that the field had become to some extent ex­hausted, it was felt that an effort should be made to see if gold could not be found at a greater depth. Tests have been made in that direction, and it has been proved that gold does exist at a greater depth than had been previously workecL, but some of those ventures are getting too big for private en­terprise without the aid of the Government. If that field can .be opened up again on the same lines as in the past, it will be a good thing for the State. The same thing may be said of Gympie. With regard to the proposed subsidy to mining fields, I may say that the idea is that subsidies should be granted to those places whore there is a pos­sibility of bringing about the employment of a large number of men. The most prom­ising fields have been pickecL out for that purpose, and these include Charters Towers, Gympir, and the Palmer. On previous oc­casious I remarked in this House that no one can question the value of the goLd in­dustrv to the State. The openinr: up of the goldfields of Y ictoria made that State, as the opening up of goldfields made the Stat3 of Western Australia, and in tbe early d.ays of Queensland the opening up of Gympie saved this State from financial ruin. Later on Charters Towers, in a period of drought, proved a great soun,~ of strength to the State. \~'ith regard to Gympie, I believe that if assistance is given by the Govern­ment to sink deeper they will strik,, gold on a third floor, and that will renew the prosperity of Gympie. With reference to the Palmer, I believe that with a subsidy of something like £3,000, much good will be accomplished. The people are putting up £10.000 or £12,000, which shows their belief in the enterprise. At one tim~ there were 20,000 or 30,000 people on the P~lmer, and.

now there are probably only about 1,000 people at Cooktown, and the Palmer field is given over to Chinese. The consequence is that the Laura Railway is worked at a dead loss to the Government. If that field can be r0vived, that railway, instead of being a loss to the State will prove a profitaule concern. Bearing these facts in mind, I think the a;;tion of the Government in doub­lino- the subsidv is a very good thing. It ha;' been said that the giving of this grant this year is something in the nature of a political sop. I am sorry the hon. meml;Jer· for Chillag-oe is not present, because I th:nk he was the member who made that asser­tion, and. I should like to read some figiAres which entirely disprove the statement. I have here a table showing the total advanc.::s made by the Mines Departmen~ from vari­ous votes in aid of mining to drfferent fields from the inception of the State till the 30th June, 1912. Gympie received £22,197 5s. 2d., Charters Towers £12,191 19s. 1d., Croydon £27,091 1s. 4d., Ravenswood £3,964 lOs. 8d., Herberton and Chillagoe fielcLs £14,933 1s., Mount Morgan and Rockhampton fields £10,711 12s. 3d. Clermont fields £6,396 18s. 10d.

Mr. MAY : \';hat did we get at Cloncurry?

Mr. WILLIAMS : The hon. member is a mineral man, and he ought to know. Even Kangaroo Hills has not beiln neglect<'d, for that field received £503 8s. lOd.

Mr. LECiNON : I am very glad to hoar it.

Mr. WILLIAMS : The Gympie golc1field was for many years represented by rne.mbers who sat on tho Opposition side of the House, and it received £22 197. Charters Towers has returned Liberal members occasionally, but it, too, has been represented by Labour members. Croydon was !or many years prac­tically a Labour seat, though it is now r~­prr·'-entcd bY an Independent rnei,lbcr, ~nd .rt rec, ived .£2'7 091 b,, wa. of advances tn ard of mining from "tho -Mines Department. Ravenswood has be0n represented by two Ministers for Mine,·, who were Liberal mem­bers, and yet it only r''ceived .£3,964, so that it is evident it has not beGn grven any speo1al consideration. 'I'he Herberton and Chillagoe liolds, which the hon. member for ChillaE'oe knows something about, rPc.mved £14,933, while Charters Towers, whrch returns a Liberal membccr, received only £12,191.

Mr. LENNON: It is a long time since it returned a Liberal member.

Mr. WILLIAMS: Charters Towers has returned Liberal members on several occa­sions. The figures which I. have quote?­entirely disprove the assertr~n that th1s subsidy to mining is anything m the nature of a political sop. The hon. member for Queenton spoke of the prospecting vote. Personally, I am in fav~mr o~ the proi?pe,3t­ing vote, because I beheve m the miners, who are a very good class of workers-;I think the best class of workers. There lS

a good deal of sturdy self-reliance about the n1iw--r; and a good 1niner, as a ruL, d?Bs not want the assistance of the prospectmg vote. One cannot very well appeal to the Government for an extension of the vote, for the reason that it does not induce tile employment of a large amount of labour, as is the case in deep-sinking. There has been a good deal of talk about certain railways

Mr. Williams.]

1312 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

not being gone on with; but it should be remembered that, after a public works pro­.gramme is put forward, it must be pruned down if circumstances require an alteration. A ;;ooci deal of capital has been made out of

'the promises made by the Government with regard to railways. In our part of the {)Ountry we did not hear much about those promises. What I thought the country was fighting about was mainly whether the Go­vernment should be returned to power so as to bring in such a Bill as the Iudustrial Peace Bill. I congratulate the Treasurer -on making such an able and masterly Fin­ancial Statement under the difficulties he was in.

Mr. FIHELLY: Do you mean financial dif­ficulties?

Mr. WILLIAMS: No. I refer to difficul­ties caused by being under the shadow of the Commonwealth vampire. There was the humbugging of the Federal Governme11t with regard to the sugar industry; then there was their action with regard to •he Savings Bank; and we do not know what tricks they will be up to after this. They have already raised the amount that may be deposited at interest to £500, and prob­ably they will raise the rate of interest to 5 per cent., until they can collar the :whole of the business.

Mr. LEli!NON : New South Wales increased the rate to 3! per cent., which I think was a great mistake.

Mr. WILLIAMS : I think the Common­wealth Government will have to get r:id of that piece of dishomgty they showed in telling deluded depositors that if they are robbed by the officials of the bank, they will not get the money refunded; and they will have to r:iise the rate of interest in order to lure the public. This is one of the things that go to >how the people who voted for federation how foolish they were. I was one of those duffers; and if I could see ar,y means of gc,tting r.id of the Federal Padiallllll-L l ;)uld do .,"o; and I boliove nine-tonths of the people of Queensland would do the same. It may come yet. Let the Federal Government go on a little more with their squeezing busine"a, and the time may come yet.

An OPPOSITION MEMBER : If there was a Liberal Government in power you would alter your view.

Mr. 'NILLIAMS: A Liberal Government may get there yet. I notice that the Pre­mier congratulated the hon. member for Chillagoe on his very lucid. statement o£ the terms of the Industrial Peace Bill from the Labour point of view, and paid him the compliment of saying that it would have been impossible to more clearly explain the measure from the Labour standpoint. The suggf'stion made by hon. members opposite with regard to carrying out the recommenda­tion of the Auditor-General appeared to me to be rather ludicrous. Do they mean to say that the Government should follow the advice or direction of the Auditor-General ? If the Inspector-General of the Forces a£ Australia were to advise the Hon. Andre-vv Fisher to go to war with Japan, would the

.Hon. And~ew Fisher be bound to folio-_

[Mr. Williams.

that advice? It comes to this: Who is going to govern the country-the JYiinisters or the heads of departments?

Mr. LENNON : The Auditor-General is an officer of Parliament.

l\1r. WILLIAMS: Exactly; and I believe he is a very able man; and from his point of view his advice is perfectly correct; but from the point of view of Ministers, it is not suitable to the circumstances. And if Ministers did not follow their own views, they would be governed by the heads of depar.tments. It only shows that some hon. gentlemen opposite, in entering into these financial matters, are getting into deep water.

An OPPOSITION MEMBER : The Auditor­General must also be in deep water.

Mr. ·wiLLIAMS: When hon. members, like the leader of the Opposition and the hon. member for Chillagoe, attempt to go into deep water, they should first learn to swim. I will not take up further time, but will conclude by saying that the excel­lence of the Statement is shown by the weakness of the arguments brought against it.

Mr. BEBBINGTON (Drayton): I will only keep the Committee a few minutes. I think we ought to congratulate the Goveniment on the Financial Statement, delivered by the Treasurer. A good deal has been said about the good seasons we have had for many years, but, as far as the Darling Downs are con­cerned there has been prachcally a drought during' th~ past year. We did not ~xport the .quantity of cheese we .exported. m the prevwus year, and the quantity of butter was not anything like what it should. have b~en. Really, from an agncultural pomt of vww, last year was practically a drought, as far as we were concerned. You cannot get away from the ;ctrike. Some members on th,·. other side say that th" Treasurer "as something like £200,000 out in his expenditure. I dare say the strike accounted for a good deal of that. I must really congratulate the Minister upon thD business-like way in which they have managed, so far as that department goes. In comparison with the other Statf'•,, the Queens­land railwavs are v~:ry much b0tter manag<'d, so far as the country people are concerned, than either the Victorian or New South Wales I·ailways. \Ve find on the 1st March or May, for several years latelc: in the other States, they have had _4,0QO,OOO b~g-s of wh.eat out in the country d1stncts ava1tmg transit. The wheJ.t has been rotting in thP stacks and rotting in the wagon•, and thev do not even provide a tarpaulin to cover it in the wagons. I think we c·:m congratulatB the dDpartment upon the way in which they have done their work. It is the farmers' province to grumble, and surely bon. members will not object to them grumbling a little bit, as that is all they have. Nevertheless, taking all things into consideration, we have a good deal to cause satisfaction.

Mr. KIRwAN: What about the freights?

Mr. BEBBINGTON: The freights on Clairy produce are very satisfactory. We have nothing what'lver to complain about. on that score. When there are more crossing-places over the Range, we will be able to get our but­ter and other produce down to the boats dur­ing the night, and that will make a very bi~ difference. So far as the loan money for rail-

Supply. (25 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 1313

ways is concerned, I do not think we realise what that money brings in to us. Some of the vV estern members do very likely. The han. member for Gregory and one or two more may r('alise what Queensland is. It is not the fault of Queensland; it is the fault of the people. They do not realise what Queensland is, and they do not realise the security they have. The people's minds are too small to take in Queensland. That is where the difficulty comes in. If we look at the money that is ·spent on railways, what do we see for it? \Vhen we have spent our monPv, what have we got'/ \Ve have got th0 railway, certainly. ·we hccve not only got the railway, but we have paid that money to our workers, and the workers have built up homes and they own property, so that we not only h?.ve the raiiway for our money, but we have the properties that are owned by the workers, so that ',Ye really have the value of the money h·:icc, over.

An OPPOSITION MEMBER : And the incretcsed ,-alue of the property.

Mr. BEBBINGTON: Yuj, and look at the children they re.,r, and look at the people they bring here, and we g2t £1 5s. a head for thmn frorn the Cominonwealth. Then, again, if we turn up the rents f;·om lands we find that rents irom selections totalled something like £373,000, and altogether from lands we got £843,000. Th,,t is nearly £1,000,000 in rents. I would like to know how much of thac really comes as a result of the railways built, or how much additional rent is received­on account of railways. \Ve have these rail­ways guaranteed, and "e roally pay twice over, or, at least, a good many people do. I think that guarantee ohould be brought down to 2 per cent. That is quito sufficient. I notice Brisbane members sitting on this side of tlw House--and I think the Opposition does the same-advise the Government to go slow, be­call''" they have .g·ot their railways, and they do not pay a smgle cent of guarantee, and they get all the bu~iness for nothing, and we have to pay the hill. I think 2 per cent. is quite sufficient to guarantee for those rail­ways. Then, as the Secretary for Lands will hear out, on the very first time the Land Court sits to reasJe>s rents, the guarantors, or, properly, the builders of the railway, have to pay increased rents on account of railway com;munication. You have to guarantBe the railway first, and then pay for your railway communication. 'l'hat is scarcely fair. So far as building railways out of revenue is concerned, I certainly agree with the Secre­tary for Railways, that we should do no such thing. Why should we penalise this generation in order to build railways for the future? I think we are doing quite sufficient to hand over to them the country, improved as it is, without thinking about a sinking fund or guarantees or anything of that sort. I think they come in for a very good possession and have nothing whatever to grumble about, and I should be very pleased if I had a share in that concern. I speak very strongly against anything in the nature of building railways out of revenue. I say we have no right to build railways out of revenue, and thereby penalise the present generation. So far as- the Home Secretary's Department is concerned, there is one thing that is missing from the Home Department's Estimates, and that is, grants for main roads. We know perfectly well that the mftin roads leading out from cities are used mostly by the cities, and the small shires round the cities are penalised. In fact, it takes all the revenue of the Drayton Shire Council to keep their

1912-4M

roads in repair for the sanitary carts of Toowoornha. (Loud laughter.) I have made applications to the f'Iome f?ecretary for money to keep that road 111 repair.

The HOME SECRETARY: But you did not get it, though. (Renewed laughter.)

Mr. BEBBINGTON: No, I did not get it and therefore I think we should have g;ants for main roads. Then there is another thing I would like to see. In reference to hospitals, the han. gentleman has some very undesirable patients; we have h~d some at Toowoomba. In fact, sometimes J:e sends them up there, and I do not th_ink 1t is right. Why, four or five years smce I was vulking through a ward when a man jumped up, usiiJ,g the most dreadful language-(laughter)-and the nl!-rse rushed up and threw a rug over h1m. (Loud laughter.) I said, "That mo:n should n?t be here. He should either he m gaol or 1ll an asvlum." The nurse said, " \\7 e have to ta!re him." I asked "\Vhy?" And she sa1d, " Don't you kr{ow who he is?" I said, "No." She said, "Well, he is a member of Parliament." (Roars of la.ughter.)

JYir. ll.1URPHY: Don't mention his name, whatever you do. (Laughter.)

Mr. BEBBINGTON: He is not in this House novv, so that is quite sufficient. Not long ago one of these men was sent to one of our hospitals. These people should not be sent ther0 but the Home Secretarv should have a. pri~ate hospital or ward, or 'something for his own patients of that description. (Loud and continued laughter.) Turning from that we como to the Education Department. I have much pleasure indeed in referring to our Edu~-ltion Dvpartment. It has been said that it is one of the most important branch< s of our service, and that is quite true. We know that we cannot build up our nation if we are behind with our education. I must congratulate the Govern­mont on the advance that has been made in connection with the higher education. That is what we have been wanting for years and years. \Ve want to bring the higher education within the reach of as many of our pr-ople as possible. In connection with our high schools, it is far better not to have the teachers centred in one place, but to have them di~tributed all over the country. \Ve know that wherever we can get twenty­five pupils who have passed the fifth standard that a teacher will he sent there and a high school formed. That is a splendid thing, as it really means a grammar school education free of charge to the country people. I can tell you that they appreciate it very much. At Helidon they are looking round to get the required number, and we will very soon be making applica.tion for a high school to be estab­lished there. (Hear, hear !) With regard to our timber reserves, I was very much struck by the report issued by the Lands Department, and I noticed there that it said that in some districts the timber would run out in ten years. Mr. Lahey, one of our largest timber merchants, told me the other day that when all of our Queensland pine has gone that there is no other pine in the world to take its place. I interviewed the Secretarv for Public Lands to see what could b~ done with reference to providing timber for making butter boxes and boxes

Mr. Bebbington. J

1314 Supply. [ASSEMBL Y.J

tor fruit packing. If our timber is going to be cut up in this way, then the sooner our manufacturers know the better, as they will be able to provide for it all the sooner. We have heard a great deal about farmers' wages, and we have heard our friends oppo­site ~ay that . if an industry cannot pay a certam wage It should go down. But if we allow industry after industry to go down what are we going to do in the end? I ar~ anxious to pay the highest wages that we can afford to pay. We talk about making Australia a fine country. Why not admit ;,traight o.ut that it is a fine country? Why not admit that Australia is the finest country in the world and that our workers arc paid the highest rate of wages?

Mr. LENNON: We want to keep it so.

Mr. BEBBINGTON: Why not admit it straight out, and say, "We want to keep the country as it is," and then I am with you? But when you say that if an industry cannot pay a certain rate of wages then it must go down, we will have one industry after another going down, and it will mean that we will have to send our money away· for things that we should manufacture here. It will mean that we will have to send our money to Germany and other places for these things, and it will really mean that we are sending them money to fight us with later on. Let us have pPace between master and man, and we can do anything in Aus­tralia, and compote with an;v nation in the world. (Hear, hear!) I do not run Aus­tralians down, because as a class you cannot better them,

HoNOURABLE MEMBERS: Hear. hear!

Mr. BEBBINGTON: They have the facilities, and they should be allowed to make uoe of them. Reference has been made to our indobtedne"s. Well, what does it amount to? By the end of this year· we will have run up to less than £50,000,000. Well, what is £50,000,000 in a State like Queens. land, in comparison to the security that we have got to meet it? Is there any business company or any capitalist who can give the same security for £50,000,000 that Queens­land can give at the present time?

GOVERNl\lllNT MEMBERS: No!

Mr. BEBBINGTON : What if our in­debtedness was £10(),000,000; what is it? It is nothing. We hear a lot of talk about paying back our debts and providing a. sinking fund. If our investments are return­ing 15 per cent., what is the use of growl­

. ing? I consider that at the present time the money invested in our railways is return­ing 10 per C<'nt., and even if we have to pay 5 per cent. for the money we still have a big margin. How foolish v.'e would be to pay back the money! I think that the sooner we recognise that Queensland is the finest countrY in the world, and offers the best security for the money invested, the better it will be for all of us.

HoNOURABLE MEMBERS : Hear, hear !

The House resumed. The CHAIRMAN re­ported progress, and the Committee obtained leave to sit again.

The House adjourned at twelve minutes to 11 o'clock.

~Mr. Bebbington.

Supply.