Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 3 AUGUST 1909

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

518 AdJournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY.

TUESDAY, 3 AUGUST, l:JO!J.

The SrgAK;;R (Hon. J. T. Bell, Dalby) took the chair at hulf-pa't 3 o'clock.

PETITIO:'\. RAILWAY l•'ROi\1 BURKE~'OW:'< TO CLO~CUitllY.

Mr. NEVITT (Cco-pentaria.) prc•H<>nted a peti­tion frmn lG) red dents of Burket own and Carnnoweal dL~tricts, pr,-t~ving fl)r r . .ihYay con­strnction from BallaHt Ground, Albert ltiver, to tap the minentl and p:<Rtora·l district to the northwwest or Q~lHlcurry.

Petition received.

PERSONAL EXPLANATION-POINT OF oP.mm.

Mr. I\TANX (Cairnl): ·with the permiRsion of the Hnus,·, I c}.,·-.ire t1) 1na.ke a pert-1onal explana­ti'>n. (Lanchter.)

Mr. :'IIAX\YELL (B111'kr): I rise to a point of order.

The SPEAKER: Order, order! ·will the hon. Int>rnbPr fpr C tirm~ resume his sP-at!

Mr. :\1 AX\VELL: Is the hon. gentlern::tn in order in making a pPrtl.onal explanation without first oUtditJiug the Cdl1S81lt nf the H(rnse?

OPPOSITIO~ ::\flo:~IBRRS: He asked permi~'ion.

The SPEAKEE: I do 11ot think the hnn. ?entleman is nut of ordt<r, hut I think it wDuld be b·'t~Pr if hp would po.:Hplllle his per:-<onal ex­plana.' ion nntil afrer the formal business is dis­posed of.

HoNOURABLE ::\{E~mgRs: He<.tr, hear

PAPER. 'The foHo\\.dng pape-r, laid on thr table, was

orderer1 tn hP printt:d :-'ThA Immigration Agent's Heport fclr the yen,r !D08.

QUESTIONS. COMPENSATION FOR RECEN~' .RAILWAY ACCIDE:'<T.

:Mr. McL.-\CHI,AN (F01·titude Valley) asked the Secretary fo)r Rallways-

1. Has his attrmt.ion been directed to a telRl!ram a:ppea..ring in thi~ mornin'-(~ Co11rf,~r (29th Jnly), ln which it is assorted that certttin otlieers of the Railway Depa1tment h:ul gone to the DRlby Ho~pit1tl and got men who w~·re inj 1Hed in the reeent railway acu.dent to sign documents in regard to the compensation they were to receive?

2. 11id offiecn=: of thp, Hailwn~~ DP-partment interview inmatt,,; of tbe Da..1hy Hospit-al for the purpose referred to Ill the telegram?

3. If ~o. wa.~ this course adopted with the knowledge of the ::\lin is ter?

The SECRETARY FOR RAIL"\YAYS (Hon. "\V. T. Peget, Ma,ckay) rPplitd­

l. Yes. 2. Yes. 3 . .So ; but was subseqnent~y approved of by me.

ScrmAY ExcuHsiOx THAINS.

::\Ir. \VI~ST AXL ~:y (Charters Towers) asked the Chief SPcretary, for the Attumey- General-

1. Is it in accordance with legctl practice and the prinPiples pf con~titutional g-ovennnent for a Cabinet MiuisV .. 'r or a. Governmenr, department to contravene legislation passed by the electr· l repre:;;entalive-~; of the people, or a.s embodied in statutes of I1roperia.l origin, and accepted as legal enaetments in self-governing Briti>!ih States P

Questions. [3 AUGUST.] Pe1•sonal Explanation. 519

2. Is not the running of Sunday excursion train~ a -contravention or law in f,1rce to semue Sundav obser­vance, and i" not, the Connni-::.:.wner for RailwayS in this respect lhble in an Hction at law?

The PREMIER (Hon. W. Kidston, Rock­hampton) replied-

l. Xo. 2. So.

l\1EDALS POR .JGBILEE EXHIBI'l'ION.

Mr. AIREY (Rrisuanc South) asked the Cluef Secretary-

l Is it. a fa.ct thftt n numb·'r of gold and silver medals are bein..:- ma.nuf'actuH•d for competition at the Jnbilee Exhibition taking place thi>~. yeat?

2. \Vhat firm is tnanufactnring tltese medalR? 3. \Yer-e tenders called for the manufactut·e or these

medals? 4. If not, why was preference given to a I<Lrticular

firm?

The PRl~NIIER replied­l. Yes. 2. }fe"~rs. Flavelle, Roberts, and San key. a and 4. ·renders were not culled. bee msc the desire

of the G-overnment w-as. not 1::'0 mnch to obtain a cheap article as to ensnre tbnt the medals would be, both al-l to design and worlnnnnship, creditable examplcc.; of what Queensland could produce in her jubilee year iu that clas-; of work.

ABOLTTIOX ow UAPITAI, PuxisH~mNT.

Mr. JONES (Rurnt't), for Jfr. Adamson, aske·i the Chief Secretary-

1. Is it th"" intenti0n of the Govm·nment to hring in an Abolition of Capital Punishment Bill this t'P.;;sion?

2. Is it not de+irable that before any new Act of PHr­li~tment becomes law, the regulations framed on that Act should hB snbmittr.d to this House fOr consitleration, and, if need be, amemln::eut?

The PREMIER replied-1. Any llills the G0v()rnment intend to introdnce, in

a~dition to those mPntioned in Hi.s Excellency Speech, Will be announced ::tt tbe proper t1me.

2. This is a qucstifm which this House ahntYs decidf's for itself. ~

ABORIGINAL THGST ~lOXKL

:\Ir. NTI:VITT (Cc,rpcntaria) a"ked the Home Secretary-

,,.,..hat amount of morey was held ·n1 trust by the Pro­tector of .A.bo:riginals at Norman ton up to the ·30th June last?

ThA HOI\IE SECRETARY (Hon. J. G. Appel, Albcrt) replied­

£109 Os. 9d.

PEOPLE's PnoGHESSIVE LEAGVE.

Mr. l\IANN asked the Chief Secretary-!. Is the oftice of organiser to the People's Progressive

League a place of profit in the gift of the Crown? 2. If ~o, does the m em~ er for 1:inrke iutend to rt.:::;ign

his seat in this House?

The PREMIE)'t replied--Referring to this qne~tion and questions Sos. 6,

7, and 8 on the business-paper: During the present session qu.,stions have heen put by a few hnn. mem­bers not w1th the view of eliciting information in regard to pnblie matters, but for the purpose of conveying unfonnded insinuations of the worst kind ag1-1inSt tbeirfellow-members--insinnatlons which could not with impHnity be 111ade outside tbe precincrs of this House. We c:tnnot prevrc·1t such questions being asked, bnt we can, and will, ignol'e them.

Mr. COYNE ( TVarrego) : I rise to a point of order. I want to know whether this is a replv to a question or a dictation to hon. members as to what they should do.

Several OPPOSITIO~ l\h;vmgns kept interject­ng.

The SPEAKER: Order, order! It is not a point of order, I understand, to which the hon. member.for \Varrego rose. The Chief Secretary is so far in order.

1\lr. MANN: I ri;e to a point of ordPr. Ia the Chief Secretary in order in attributing motives to members of this House?

The SPEAKER: The Chief Secretary is in order, so far as h& ha;-; gone.

:i\fr. ::\IvRPHY: A biag,ed Sp~:;ker.

Several Orrosrrrox MEMBERS continued inter-jecLing while the Premier was reading the reply,

The SPEAKER: Order, ,,rder!

The PREMIER continued-We cannot prevent ~uch-

Mr. AIREY: I rise to a point of order. Is the Chief Secr~tary justified in makir•g a state­rnent attribut,ing rnoti ve::; of an imprbper kn1d. to members of this Hon,e. The stateruent whiCh he has just m<<de is ab>olut e:y without justifi­cation.

The SPEAKER: In rrplv to questions asked by hon. member~, and add;ef'Hed to JUin1sters, }finisters are at liberty to make any answer they pleasE', within reason.

GoVERXMEN'l' :MEMBERS : Hear, hear!

The SPEAKER: They have full liberty to reply, or not to reply to q uestilJt, s, and, they take the full responsibilioy ror any answer they choose to give.

Mr. LES!NA: Hear, hear!

l\Tr. AIREY: Pardon me; you misunderstood my puint of order. The p.>int of order I raioed was--

GoYEHXiiiEN'l' ME~!BEHS: Order, order!

:\1r. AIREY: The point of ordPr I raised waq thi<: \\'a,; ibe Chief Secretary in order in attri· outing motive;; of an improper kind to members who ask questions?

:Mr. LE~INA : So do members attribute motives.

The SPEAKER: Order, order! The Chief Secretary, in my opinion, in his reply to tbe questions, did not go outside the proper limits that are allowable to a l\1inister in answering questions--

Mr. MANN : By you.

The SPEAKER: By the Speaker of this House.

Mr. l\IUHPHY AND Mr. l\IANN : A biassed Speaker.

J3ARRON FALLS BILL.

Mr. \VOODS (Wooth~<kat~<), on behalf of Mr. :\farltl, asked the Chief Secretary-

1Yhat has become of the Barron Palls Bill which was ineluded in the' Rockhampton manifesto, for the carry~ ing out of which the present coalitiou was formed P

The PRE:\1IER: If the htm. member looks at Standing Order No. 64, he will find that his question is out of order.

PERSONAL EXPLANATION.

Mr. :\IAN~: \Vith the consent of the House I desire to make a personal explanation.

Mr. LESINA : Hear, hear !

Mr. MANN : This is my explanation.

l\Ir. MAXWELL: I rise to a, r,oint of order. I would like to know if the hon. member is in order. Under Standing Order No. 104 it simply rests with the House as to whether a member

Mr. Maxwell.]

620 Personal Explanation. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

shall be permitted to make a personal explana­tion. It says there that by the indulgence of the House a member may explain matters of a personal nature, and no member has a right to do it--

Mr. LESIXA: Unless the House consents.

Mr. MAXWELL: He must have the consent of the House before he can make a personal explanation.

Mr. MuLLAN: You cannot pren:nt it-you have not got a majority.

Mr. MAX\VELL : Is it not the duty of a member to ask the consent of the House ·before he makes a personal explam<tion ?

The SPEAKER: The hon. member has raised a point of order aa to whether a personal expla?a~ion may be made without inviting the permissiOn of the House. Unquestionably under Standing Order 104, the indulaence of th~ House is to be acquired before the personal ex­planation can be made--

Mr. MANN : I asked permission.

The SPEAKER : Order ! But, as a matter of fact, the practice of this House-and I believe I am correct in saying it, it is the practice of the House of Commons also-has been to permit a member to rise and make the personal explana­tion before public business is entered upon.

OPPOSITION MEMBERS : Hear, hear !

The SPEAKER: That condition is granted u_nder the assumpti?n that the member only rises upon an occaSI•'n when he has a serious !le?essity f~r making a personal explanation, and It IS made m the briefest manner possible and with ~trict relevancy. I propose to follow' that practiCe.

OPPOSITION MEMBERS: Hear, bear!

The SPEAKER : I therefore call on the hon. II_J-ember for Cairns to make his personal explana­tiOn.

Mr. MANN: Thank you. I knew you would. What I wanted tn draw the attention of the House to is this : 'l'he other day I a-ked a cer­tain question, and owing to the reply I got from the Minister for Agriculture anyone would have thought that I had asked a question which I had n<? grounds for asking. On Hansard, page 475, it ~Ill be seen thH,t I asked the following q ues­twn :-

When will the Suffolk Punch promised bv the Minis-ter last session be sent up? ·

And the Minister replied to that-No such promise was made.

I wish to read just a few lines from Hansa> d of la~t year, page 840. I was speaking, and I said this-

~fr. ~IA:i'.\': He did not mind voting for the amount required to establish a water scheme at Mareeb~ and a State farm in the ~ortb, and he hoped the Secretary for Agriculture would send one of the stud bulls tO his district.

th~~~l~~~;J<~~~~cyh.l'OR Ac;RICULTURE : I will send along

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICGLTURE : Y on did n_o~ understnnd the jocular iuterjection. (Oppo­sitiOn laughter.)

Mr. AIREY: Never joke with a Scotchman. Mr. MANN : No Minister should joke over a

serious matter like this. (Laughter.) If a Minist"r jokes in that way he is not fit to hold the position _which he now holds. (Laughter.) He has no nght to make a jocular remark like that. (Laughter.)

The SECRETARY ~'OR AGRICULTURE: I know all al.Jont 1 he illttljection.

[Mr.Maxwell.

ADDRESS IN REPLY.

RESUli!PTION OJ;' DEBATE. Mr. BARBE!t (Bundauerg), who was received

with Labour "Hear, hears!" said : The atmos­phere appears to be snmewhat electric this after­noon. I propl1~e to offer one or t\vo remarl{s in connection with certain matters that are con­tained in the Governor's Speech. At the com­mencement of the se,sion the Premier and the hon. members supporting the Government designated the G,"ernor'a Speech as a demo­cratic m: e. I hare bven somewhat at a loss to understand as to whether the l'remier was justJ cracking or.e of his dry Scotch jokes when h& made that statement. Of course, if his state­ment that the programme about which we have heard such a great deal during the cou<Ke of the last four or live weeks is a correct one, then it strikes me as being a very humorous matter that the Premier should place the moving of th& Address in Reply in the hands of two of the staunchest Conservatives in Queensland to-day. I refer to the Hon. F. I. Power. who moved the adoption of the Address in Reply in the Upper Home, and the hon. member for Moreton, who moved it in this Assembly. So far as my experience of politics in this State is concerned, those two hon. gentlemen have always been recognised as the very personification of con­servatism. (Hear, hear!) I say that it struck me as being somewhat humorous, or the Premier must have been in a humorous frame of mind, when he designated this a democratic programme. Before I deal with one oc two matters c-ontained in the Governor's Speech, I wish to refer to some remarks thaf. were made by the senior member for Townsville in the cou~se of an address which he delivered at Gin Gin a fortnight ago last Saturday. The hon. member visited Gin Gin in company with the hon. member for .IYiusgrave, and addressed a public meeting. I quote now from the Hundauerg Mail, because that paper repre~ents, or is pref-:uined or claimB to represent,.. the opinions of the Conservatives in that district. According to the report appearing in that news­paper, the ~enior member I or Townsville, in the course of his remark", made use of these words-

In their own diRtrict they we1·e suffering because the member for Bundaberg was a member Of the !Jabour party. If l\Ir. Barb1·r were worl\:ing with ~1r. White in the watter of their 1Ve8tern railwny, they would be in a better position to get it.

Mr. COYNE : More intimidation. Mr. BARBER: A V ore:~<:: How do you know he isn't fair?

The hon. member for JHusgrave, JY1r. \Vhite, made an interjection, which is not reported in the Bundauerg Mail, and which is as follows:-

No, no; Mr. Barber is doing all he can in the matter;. 2\Ir. Barber has done very well. I wish to thank my hon. friend, Mr. \Vhite, for making that ren1ark, because no one knows better than the hon. member for Mnsgrave that,. however widely we may differ politically---and I candidly adt!lit that we do differ very strongly on political metters generally-we have always worked amicably together on that matter, and on other matters which are for the benefit of the rlistnct.. The senior member for Townsville further said-

! know that )fr. Barber will have to do as be is told, or el~e leave the party. The members for JHnryborough and Gympie would take good care that the railway was kept down at their end, and if 1\lr. Barber voted against them he would be kicked ont. I would ask any hon. member of this Chamber if he has ever read or listened to more childish and puerile remark' than those uttered by the senior memuer for Townsville.

Hon. R. PHILP : If that is so, why repeat. them?

.Address in Repl;y. [3 AUGUST.] .Address in Repl;y. 521

Mr. BARBER: There is no doubt in my mind that only one of two reasons can account for the hon. member making those remarks, and I can hardly forgive the hon. member for making the remarks, because he has probably heard as often as any member of this House the pledge and pbtform of the Labour party stated in this Assembly. The only conclusion I can come to is that he made those remarks either out of crass ignorance or with the intention of misrepresenting the matter. No doubt under the old conservative rule in this State some years ago, when the Government which the hon. member supportEd so strongly or of which he was a member was in office, many things were done in a very vindic~ tive manner. J\!Iany public servants, railway men and others, suffered because they had the courage of their opinions or convictions, and expres.sed their opinions on matters connected with their employment. There are scores, I might say hundreds, of such men in Queensland to-day who were penalised by that Government because they had the courage of their convictions, and many ot them have suffered severely through the vindictive manner in which they were treated under conservative rnle. I do not think the peop:e who were present at that meeting at Gin Gin believed for a moment that the statements made by the hon. member for Townsville were correct. The people in the Gin Gin district are well acquainted with the manner in which the hon. member for Musgrave and myself have worked together, not only on the particular matter mentioned, but on all matters concerning the benefit and advancement of the district. vV e worked together, as you, Sir, know well, during the time you were Minister for Lands in con­nection with the opening up of the Good Night Scrub for settlement, the agitation for the rail­way to the Good Night ::3crub, and on many other matters calculated to advance the interests of the district. vVhen the senior member for Townsville talked about individual member~ of the Labour party having to vote in the manner determined by a vote of the caucus on all matters contained in the Labour plat­form, he spoke correctly_ Every member belonging to the party at the present time, and every member on the other side who once belonged to the party, knows very well tha.t on matters pertaining to the Labour platform we are guided hy the majority of the members of the Parliamentary Labour party as expressed by resolution, but that on all matters outside that platform every member of the party has an abs:>lutely free hand-just as free a hand as any other member in this 0\l.amber. As a matter of fact, we have a freer hand than the majority of members un the other ,ide of the House. Now, I should like to refer to one or two matters in connection whh the advocacy of a railway for that district. 'Ne are told that the Government intend-that is, of course, if they are able to carry on the Government of this State-a matter about which I have my doubts, at the present time, at any rate-that they intend introducing a large number of rail­" ays. There has been considerable agitation in the district to which I refer for an extension of the Mount Perry Railway to the Upper and Northern Burnett district. It is more than twenty years since the first move was made in that direction. At one time we had a big association in Bundaberg, which very strongly, persistently, and insistently advo­cated the extension of that line. Now I claim that, despite the large number of years that were spent, sometimes in active advo­cacy, and sometimes the asaociation was in a more or less comatose condition, it is only within the past three years that the justice of the claims

of that district have been recognised by the Government_ I think I may claim, without being in any way egotistical, this recognition has been made largely through the efforts uf the hon.

member for i\fusgrave, the Hon_ Q_ [4 p.m.] :B'. Nielsen, and my,elf. I say it is

only within the last two or three years that the claims of that district have been forced upon the Government and we have been able to get thoee claims recognised. You your­self, Sir, were good enough, some two or three years ago, to make a tour through the Upper, or Northern, Burnett, and I have no neeri to refer to the very complimentary manner, as far as the district was concerned, in which you expressed yourself on your return. During the recess both the present Minister for Land, and the present Minister for Railways also visited that district, and I would like to read a short extract from a report of an interview b~t.ween a repre~entative of the Cotwier and the Minister for Lands. 'I'he Minister for Lands 'aid, " It is a wonderful country," and there is no doubt that it is, and you, Sir, u'ed practically the same terms. The Secretary for Lands said-

"It is a wonderful country, and almost uninhabited,''" were the first words spoken by the Hon. D. F. Denham (Minister for Lands) yesterday ou his return from the Upper Burnett district. ·'The trip," he coNtinued,. "was undertaken by )ir. J>aget G\fiuister tor Railways) and myself at the request of Messrs. "\Yhite and Barber, l\lll.L.A., and it was organised by the Western RHilwa.y League. }{eports of this country hH.ve from time to time appeared in tbe Press, notably those by .surveyor Charlton, )fr. G. Phillips, and more recently that or Crown Lands Ranger "'~interford. My interest was. stimulated bv what Mr. 1Vinterrord had to say, and I remember on one occasion stating in Parliament that it read like a romancP _ l 1rom that time I have been eager to see the country for myself, and I can ,say at one& that the reports have not been exaggerated.

"In seeing country one hRs, of course, to remember the conditions under which it is seen, and probably this countrY was at its best. It is at least difficult to imagin·e it looking hetter. '\Ye were somewhat pressed for time, and had to make long days of it all through. On arrival at :Mount Perry on 'Wednesday last, despite­the rain which had set in, we started, and for the first ten railes out the road was heavy, steep ridges having to be negotiated. 'Vre were consequently unable to make the destination arranged, and we camped at Opossum Creek for the first night. On the ser-ond night we camped at Goomarran, and on the third night we­were hospitably entertained at Coominglah head station. On the followin~.r d»y Mr. Paget rode over the Bell table­land towards l\lulgild1e, and be was thus enabled to see more country than I, who returned by the original route. "Ye were enabled to arrive bat'k at :J1ount Perry at 10 a.m. :\ionday, and to visit the school, where I was sur­prised to find ne~uly 600 children on the books. Subse­quently I received a deputation, and then visited the copper works.

"'\Vhen I left Brisbane I had an impression that we were going into pastoral country, set.rled as ~:meh, but I struck a new experience. For 44 miles out from ~Iount Perry the only dwelling we saw was an out­station owned by :.\lr. Bennet, '-Vhich for many years served as a change for the coaches. 'Ve passed on from there to ~~ew Rawbelle, a portion of the party going up the other side of the divide towards ,,~ingfield, and it is astonishing that in the whole area traversf~d. 216 miles out from and back to 1\lount Perry, we saw only four dwellings and twenty-five lJoople, including domestic servants. I mention this because the land, instead of being thus sparsely peopled is really c:-~.pable of ca.rry­ing a population as large as that which is now settled on the Darling Downs. The ridgy cr:mntry out from Mount Perry is splendid pastoral eountry, aud to my mind it is splendid dail ying country also, becanse it carries an abunGanee of good natural grasses. From this out there is pastoral country of first and second quality, and scrub which I consider good, until reaching Dalgangal. Then we went north t'J i'\ew Rawbelle, and the country imp1oved every mile we travelled. Across the creek f1om Dalgangal the country is most excellent. At Xew Rawbelle it was superb. with good lncerne countr_y on the creek. :J.lr. llindmarsh s:tid that right away to Grevil!ea, about 30 miles, it was as good, or bet,ter. 1\-e travelled about 12 miles along this route,. and I certainly have never seen finer pastnre in my life, with abundance of Bnrnctt blue gra~s and western:

Mr. Barber.]

522 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Repl_y.

blue grass. The Burnett, we may say, extends north and south about 70 miles, and I do not know how far west it goes. This m::LY be used. bv way of compA.rison, as the Darling Downs. frvm 'roowoomla to Warwiek. is abont 70 miles. We all know the transition that hafl taken place on the Do\vn-., ancl l see no reason why a similar tran..:ition should not take plHce in this area I have just visited.

'"rhe great point which has to be determined," con­tinued ~fr. Denbatn, "is a comprehensive railway scheme f'H opening up this conntry. Personnlly. I can­not think that one line \vill suffice to meet the require­ments. p~trticularly when we resume the compariRon with the Darling Downs and remember the number of lines radiating from the main line between there and "\Varwick. "\Vhat I hope to ~ee aecompllshed fat• thu Upper .nurnett is a, good raihva.y scheme p:mperly settled and determined, and t~eu I, tlS )Iinister for Lands, will be in the prowt po8ition of having available fon;Pttle~ menta gre:n scope ot' country, which eonsio.:ts of almost all Cro'ivn lands. Only a. very few hlocks have beeu alienated, :-tnd With a polier of railway construction settled I propose to put on a staJf of sarveyors to suit­ably map out the \\'hole a.reH. A lot of tlte land is under occ>upa.tion license only, and 20s. per square mile. or Je,_-.; than ~d. per acre, is being received as renL Other superior grazing farms are held at a rental ot' Hd. per acre-representing a capital ·vnlne of 2s. 6cl. per :wre­for laud the v:tlue of wbielJ cannot be estimated if only railway construction is provided for. I would have the survey. made out regardless of tenure. though the lcasel'l existing wonld, of course, h:-tve to be respec~ed. '!'he I>remier has been very anxious that the Lands Depart­ment should he able to undertake land settlemeut on a big scale. '!'his is jnst the opportunity.

"As to prickly pear, in the whole distanee tr:tversed I saw only one clump, and I afterwards learned from one of the party that there were only a few such clumps in the whole di:·trict. I at once gave t.he Crown !Jands Rang-er instructions to negotiate frn· the extermination of the whole of these clnmps. It was most refreshing indeed to go over 1-0 mueh land ne<tr the coast and tree from the pest. I made inquiries regardin.!{ the water, and .:\1:1'. II!udmnrsh told rne he had twelve wells, one only l~ feet, and the deepest only :30 feet, with an abunt'Jancc of watf-'r. ApH,rt from 'vells tnere are numerous crer~ks. So we have the pleasa::~t proposition or Crown lands [!Jr settlement \Vith all these advan­tages. I le-arn( d there were fair deposits of eopper and oth('r minerals in parts of the district which required only railway enmmuuication to make them lHtyable. On the Rell tablrland there are v:t:-.t n~ourees of h:trd.­wood, some or the trees g-qing 60 fC":et sheer to the first brancbes. Just now mining is dnll at }fount Perry. With railwav facilities I mn contident the smelting ·works would bP. going fnll time. As I remembered Gym pie. where agrictlltnre alld dairring is taking the place of mining, l could not help thinking that 1-ionnt Perry will tell a similar story H only proper steps are takeu.

It is a long report, and the report of the inter· view with the SPcretary for AgricnlturA i~ some­what <>n a par with the rupurt of the Secre­tary for L;tncls, hut probably not of so great a length. As I have said, I, in c'1mpany with the hrm. member for MusgraYe, have brought this nutter very largely to the front in this Chamber during the last year or two, and I feel convinced t ha,t no Govornr.nent-n~""'it.her tbi9 or any other Government. that may be in power­can for nne rnnn1ent rPfuqe to recognise the jus­tice of the claims of that district for an extension of that rail way. There is ronm there for the settlement not only of sc,>res of families, but of hundreds of fami!iP-s, and I may say, despite what has been said by hon. members in their speeche', on a preYinus debate in this Chamber during the past two or three weeks-they have stated to thi.-; House, and throngh this House to the country, that the Labour p~rty, or the Socialistic prrrty, are anxious to drive people off the land-! wish tu give that state­ment a very emphatic rlenial.

OPPOSITIOI\1 :YIE>fBEHS : Hear, hear!

Mr. BARBER: No man in thi~ Chamber or in Qneensla"d, or in any part of tbe Common­wealth, recngnise . .; to ft greatPr extent thu.n rnem~ bers uf the Labour party the great need of having our lands settled, and no party would hail with

jMr. Barber.

greater delight than members of the Labour party the settlement nf that vast area of splen· did country. (Hear, hear !)

l\1r. J ONES: There's room for thousand,.

Mr. BARBBR: As the hon. member for Burnett interjects, there is room for thousands of people. I think the only reason the hon. member for Townsville could have had for making the remarks he made was to attempt to pm·suade the people of that district that if this Governn1ent were turnell out its i"UCCeRsor would not [<rant the just demands of that district. I say that no Government can any longer refuse to recognise the j nstice of the demands of the Burnett and Rund:1berg districts. By a kind of apo.stolic succession the hon. member for Towns­ville leads the party now representing the old continuous Government, and I regret that to-day QL1eensland is still governed by the old Con­servative party.

Mr. ·WHIT!! : Fortunately for Queensland.

Mr. BARBER: Queensland as a whole looks upon it as a verv unfortunat~ ."fttir. , '~he hon. member for Buhmba, my sp1rrtual aav1ser and private chaplain, smiles with exf(uisite delight at the present Government having got back on the front Treasury bench. De,pite the fact that during the last two elections the people emphatically declared at the ballot-box than they had no use for the Philp party, the hrm. gentleman who is nominally head of the Go­vernment so far forgot himself. as to betray the electors and make it possible for the old Philp party to return to power.

OPPOSITION JYlEMBI!HS: Hear, hear!

::'vir. BARBRR: I would be very loth to believe that the sentiments expressed hy the hon. member for Towns vi !le at Gin Gin were the sentiments of the Secretary for Lands and the Secretary for Ro,ilways, beP<Us: I have a better opinion of them than to belteve they would attempt to penalise that great district simply for the reason that members sitting- on this sid& are attempting to put the Government out. The Bnnd~herg Mail the other day-I think it was last Saturday week-actually had a leader of more than a column, with a big headline, "\Vhat JYir. Barber should do," giving me instructions as to how I ehnuld vote on the want of confidence motion. .As Josh Billings would say, "It was intensely amoosin." (Opposition laughter.) I feel sure that the l\Tiuister fnr Lands :tnd the :Minister for Hailwttys would not present the same vindictive feeling- towards members on this side at helping to turn the Government out-would r:ot so far forget themselves as to attempt to penah~e the district on that account. It may he satd that it was a Saturday night-a sort of Cale· donian night-and the hrm. member for Towns­ville may hove been cracking one of his Sco\~h jokes; but hewillhaveto go elsewheretlnn to Gm Gin to play off his Scotch johs on an unoffen?­ing community. I always allow for certam members of Parliament being susceptible to cer· tain influences at a banquet. They express them­se! ves in very loyal terms :tfter a few champagnes, and, when the air i~ laden with the smoke from a fat cigar, everything looks ro,y, and t\1ey a':e all happy, and the world is all right. \V1th th1s dre!'lmy, happy influence upon them, they express themselves in a very curious manner.

0PPOSI1'ION JYIEMBERS : HAar, hear !

~fr. BARBER: With regard to the Governor's Opening Speech, I feel more concerned in regard to some matters that are not in it, but ~hould have been included. We are told that we have a very strong democratic party in power, and that they intend to carry their programme into eff-;ct. \Ve have beeq told that they are steering

Address in Reply. [3 AUGUST.] Address in Reply. 523

the democratic ship of State, and that the demo­,cratic flag- is flying, and a few other things of that kind. The flag may be flying, but I am in­clined to think it is flying at h><lf-mast; and when the flag is at half-mast it g-enerally means that there is a death on board. The titles of some of the rneasurt:s the Governrnent propose to intro­duce may seem very democratic ; but I remember when I was a lad reading a good old pirate stor:v--

Mr. K~;NNA: Deadwood Dick.

1\fr. BARBER: No; Dw,dwood Dick did not live in my young days. The pirates of those days were ,, 1metimes flying the British flag, sometime" the French flag, and occasionally the Americ'ln flag, which would allow them to get close ,up to their prey, and immediately they got suffiCiently close up they opemd attack, boarded the vessel, murdered the crew, robbed the vessel, and then down went the national flag which they had been flying nnd up went. the skull and cross­bones. (Laughter.) I am inolined to think that thio Gnvc-rnment instead of fll·in[( the democratic flag, or rather when they are flying the demo­cratic flag, are only flying it for the time being. (flf'ar, hear J) rrhe -~ tirne being" is smnewhat good and i" a favourite expression of the Minister fat' Education.

Mr. LESI~A: Do yo:r say that he is a pirate?

Mr. HAliBER: That reminds me that the hon. member for Bulimba, when speaking at the initiation of tha.t marvellous organif,ation the P.P.L. here--

An OPPOSITION MEMBER: The Q.M.E.L. (Lctugh er.)

Mr. BARBER: ThRy call the P.P.L. the Peop~e's Progre,sive League, but I call it the Piebald Politicians' League, became there is such a mixture of politicians in ir.

Mr. \VHITE : N at as bad as 'you are on that side.

Mr. BARBER: The hon. member for Bulimba, speaking "t the initiation of that league in Brisbane one night, said he thought that the committee should endeavour to get hold of that class of people called the 'Norking class.

The SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC l~STRCCTION: Of which I am one.

Mr. BARBER: I do not, think for a moment that that hnn. gentleman had that idea in his mind when he rnarle that remark. If this pro­grarnrne be a den1ocratic programme, what ~up­port can this House er the country expect a demo­cratic programme to get from the body of hon. gentlemen who are at present supporting the Government? I would like to call at~entwn to this fact: that the present Government is com­po,ed of twenty-four of the old Conserva~ive party-hon. gentlemen who, fnr the last ten, twehe, or twenty years, have opposed every rlemocre,tic measure that has been introduced into this House.

Tile SECREl'AltY FOR PUBLIC INSTRCCTION : You know that that is not true.

Mr. BARBER: I do not know that you-­

The SPEAKER : Orcler! I am sure that the hon. member will, on reflection, see that such a remark. is entirely out of order.

Mr. LESINA: The Minister called the hen. member for Bundaberg a liar.

Mr. BARBER: The hon. member said that my remark was not true.

The SPE \KER: The Secretary for Public InstructiOn will, on a little reflection, realise that

an interjection of that kind and saying that his remark was uot true is not becmning a rnember of this House.

Mr. LESINA: It is most un-Christian. OPPOSITION MEMBERS : \Vithdraw, withdraw !

lUr. BARBER: These gentlemen havP op-posed, in season and out of Heason, in this House and in the country, all democratic mE\asures introduced here, and when they h'we failed to prevent their (Jaseage in this Chamber they in­duc''d their friends to block them in another place.

OPPOSITION MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Mr. BARBER: Therefore I ask wh<1t chance have tbesr' measnres of getting support fwm the members now snpp,'r'ing the G<>vernment?

l\fr. JENKIXHON: There is no business in it.

J\!Ir. BARJH;I-t: I do not think there h. Mr. JENKINSON: Flying the kite. Mr. BARBER: The hrm. gentleman jnst mid

that my stateiPf:nt was not a cm rect one, but when one remembers that a' hr baek as 1890 and 189i:l the early rnem hers of the Labour party in­troduced certain democratic m•'a''ures iiJto this Hons", such as the Electoral Reform Bill, the \Vnrkers' Compensation Bill, and many others--

Mr. KERB: Shearers and Sugar \Vorkers Ac­commodation Bill.

Mr. BARBER: Yee, Shearers and Sugar Workers Accommodation Bill, and a long list of other democratic measures. (Hear, hear !) If the hon. gentleman thinl<s that my st,atement is an incorrect one, he can find the record of their sneeches and votes in that Hansard on the table. That being so, I ask again what support can the Premier expect from twenty-four members of the old Con ... ervative party who are f'llpporting or pretending to support the presem Government.

Mr. KENNA: Absolutely none. Mr. BARBER: The members of the Pre­

mier's party number twelve or H1irteen, as against twenty-four of the old Conservative party. \Vby, it is a case of two to one bar one. (Laughfer.)

l\Ir. KEXNA : Two to one on the lield. Mr. JE~KIKSON: \Vhich is the bar one?

Mr. BARBER: It may b' that these mea;;:;ures which are containt•d in the Governor's Speech havfl a democratic title attached to them, and it may be jnst possible that, in order to keep in power the party sitting on that side of the House, the members of the old Conservative party might support the Premier under great pressure to force these measures through.

l\1r. JENKINSON: No, never. Mr. BARBER: But it is not only the legis­

lative part of our work here that the country is benefited by. Even if these meaeures are placed on the stat;,_le-book, l want to know what kind of c,ympathy these mea,ures are going to get so far as the administrative part, of the business is concerned? (Hear, hear!) I think they would be whittled down and treated in an unsympa­thetic manner. Even if we had the whole. of the Labour platform on the statute-book and it did not receive that keen sympathetic treatment that these measure' deserve, then they would be little or no use to the workers of Queensland, or any other country I or that ma~ter.

Thfr. LESINA : Even then the rents would go up, and the benefits would be taken from in that way.

Mr. BARBER: If even under pressnre and in order to keep the present party in power they

Mr. Barber.]

524 .Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

passed the Government programme, I say that they would be whittled down ~tnd adulterated to such an extent when they came to be adminis­tered that I am inclined to think that the Com­missioner for Public Health would be justified in taking action and prosecuting those hon. gentlemen for placing adulterated goods on the market. (Hear, he>tr !) I am strongly of opinion that they would be adulterated, and would to a large extent be absolutely useless to the great mass of the workers of this State. They talk of it as a democratic Government. There are practically eight members in the Cabinet. l!'our of them are members of the old Philp party, and two others have come from the ranks of the old Conservative party, so that practica1!y six members of the present Cabinet have either come straight from the ranks of the Conservative party or at one time were members of that partv. There are only two members of the present Cabinet who at any time have ever been connected during their political career with the democratic section of politics.

Mr. MoO RE : Who are they ! Mr. BARBER : The presE>nt Premier and the

Minister for Mines. I do not know [4.30 p.m.] that I ought to congratulate the

present Minister for Mines upon the honourable position to which he has at­tained.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES : That won't matter.

Mr. BARBER : I know the hon. gentle­man has longed for this position for many years. He has been rewarded for his betrayal of the Labour party. For weeks and months and yenrs the hon. gentleman has longed for the p0sition of a Cabinet Minister. Three times a day the hon. member has prayed that he might get the position.

Mr. MuRPHY: On bended knees.

Mr. BARBER: He had heard hon. g-entle­men who had attained to the rank of Cabinet Minister, as they went from this House at night over Victoria Bridge, and through back streets on their way home, talk about the joys there were in the life of a Cabinet Minister and of the possibilities of the position. And their talk came to his ears like the story of the promised land. (OvrJOsition laughter.) \Ve read that in olden times a certain delegation were sent up to view the promised land, and that they came back with a glowing report as to the fertility of the country. So the hon. gentleman was told of the joys of a Cabinet Minister, of the ex­quisite taste of the turtle soup-(laughter)­they got at functions which their position en­titled them to attE,nd, and of many other nice little titbits attached to the office. The hon. gentleman has at last attained to that position. I hope he will enjoy himself during the short time that I predict he will be there.

The SECRETARY l'OR PuBLIC WORKS: I never asked for the position, nor did any of my friends ask for the )Jvsition for me.

Mr. BARBER: No; we know all nbout that. The hon. member drifted away from the Labour party to the party with which he is now asso­ciated, and those who know him know why he drifted in that direction. \Ve knew whither he wns drifting when he told us how extreme we were. I scarcely remember a motion discussed by the party at their meetings which the hon. gentleman did not attempt tu tone down. He always thought our ideas were extreme, and he was a perfect whale for amPndment~. I do not remember any matter introduced and discussed at the meetings· of the party on which the hon. gentleman did not move an amendment. From

[M1'. Barber.

every conceivable and every inconceivable place, from his vest pockAts, from his coat pockets, from his pince nez case; in fact, from the lining of his hat down, and from the heels of his boots the hon. gentleman used to bring forth amend­ments, until at laet he got the name, or the ·nom de plume, of ''Amendment George." I hope that the members of th@ present Cabinet will give him a little brotherly advice.

The SPEAKER : Order ! I do not like to interfere with the course of the bun. member's speech, but I must point out, as he himself must see, that an amendment expressing lack of confidence in the Administration has already been debated and disposed of, anrl we are now discussing the original question. My opinion is that the hon. member should, as far as possible, confine himself to the general question of public matters connected with government, and not discuss the question as to whether Ministers, individually or collectively, deserve confidence or otherwise.

Mr. BARBER: If I have transgressed the rules of debate, I regret it, and will now come back to the point with which I was dealing. I was pointing out that the democratic, or alleged democratic, members of the Governmtmt can expect little mercy from the majority of the supporters of that party, and very little assist­ance from those members in passing into law the democratic measures embodied in the programme submitted to the House. They clai"' that they have a majority in the House, and that they have the power to pass those meMures. It is a very difficult matter to determine who is the majority on that side of the House. The electors of the State are inquiring very earnestly whether the majority is the hon. member for Toowong, or the hon. member for Mount Jl.forgan, or the hon. member for \Voolloongabba, or the junior member for Toowoomba. I regret very much that none of those hon. membe" are present in the Chamber just now, because I bad one or two rem~rks to make concerning them ; but I shall defer those remarks till some other time. The Government propose to pursue what they term a "vigorous immigration policy." The question of immigration was debated in this House at some length last year, and alw during the discussion on the want-of-confidence motion this session. One of the reasons gi VE'n by hon. members on the other side of the House why they wish, to pursue a "vigorous immigration policy" is that they desire to fill up what they term th(' waste places in the North. I do not know who was responsible for coining that phrase in the first instance, but iG seent~ to have "taken on," and nearly every member on the other side of the House who has spoken on the· question of immigration during the past two or three weeb has used the phraRe. It is only about three or four years ago that the same hon. members stated, not only in this House, but nut­side, that what they call the "waste places" in N ortb Queensland " were not fit for a white man to work in." My hon. friend, the hon. member for MusgraYe, and the p1rty with which he has been so long and ably connected, have told the crowd, and have told the electors through this House, that the Northern parts of thi" State were not fit for a white man to live in. Now they are anxious to pursue a" vigort)US immi­gration policy" in order to till up the " waste places" in the Northern part uf the State.

Mr. CoY NE: They previously wanted to fill them up with blacks.

Mr. BARBER: Yes. Another argument that they use in favour of this great immigra­tion scheme is that we require more people in connection with our defence system. Whatever

Address in Reply. [3 AuGusT.] Address in Reply. 525

justification there may be to defend a vigorous immigration policy, I, for one, strongly object to the question of defence being used to assist them in this question of immigration. I would like to remind the House that at the present time, in this great State of ours, and during the past eight or nine months of this year, we have have had a large number of unemployed. And yet de"pite that fact-and that fact has been forced upon the Premier and members of the Governrnent over and over again-thev are con­tinually bringing largo shipments of people here, although there are hundreds of willing hands waiting to be employed.

Mr. ·WHITE: They are not willing. GovERNMENT ME~!BERS : \Vhere ?

Mr. BARBER: Everywhere. They are quite willing. It is only a few weeks agn that a para· graph a1opeared in th~ B1·isbane Courier, which was sent by the \Varw10k correspondent of that paper, pointing out that a htrge number of men were humping their swags through that district looking for work.

Mr. Moo RE: \Vho takes any notice of the Courier?

Mr. BARBER: Every hon. member opposite. \Vhen that toothle,sold hag attacks ~hem with her gums, they have to take notice of her. I say we have hundreds of men unemployed in Queens­land. During the past few months, as the hon. member for ~1u<grave knows, we have had between 200 and 300 men in the Bundaberg and Musgrave di,-trict who have nothing to do.

Mr. \VHI'l'E: They do not want anything.

:::1-ir. BARBER: IY!mt is the use of talking that nonsense! The hon. member knows very well, after t~e sugar season-which was a very short one thlB year-wa~ nver, tht>re wa8 pra.cti­cally nothing to do, and those men have been -cmn!JPlled to apply to the Gov-_rnment for sufficient food to live. \Vhat has been the fate of a considerable nnrnber of irnmigrants \Vho have been introducerl into (,.lueensland during the last fen mouths? I know some who have been in this State for the last five or six months who, up to the pn·-eut, have not been able to find any work to do. I know that has been the case with two families in Bundaberg alone. One married man with two or three children and one single man, came out to their friends !.here and with the exception of three weeks in th~ past five or six months, the friends of those immigrants have been compelled to keep them. That is only typical of scores of other cases in Queenslancl. \Vhli.t i;: the position in Brisb~ne to-day? Take the men connected with iron­works here, the different foundries, and the men who follow the trade or occupation of iron­workers' assistants, and you will find, in a good many cases, that thos8 men, who previously bad permanent work, are now walking abcut idle and their places have been filled by immigrants: The country was led to believe that a large majority of the immigrants the Government were introducing into this State, came here practically for the purpose of settling on the land. I have met some of them-althou"h I claim that here in Queensland we have the fl~est country on God's earth.

OPPOSITION MEii!BERS : Hear, hear!

Mr. BARBER: The finest State in the Commonwealth, >:nd the finest country, and yet I have met anythmg from twelve to twenty of those immigrants, who, after having been here for a few weeks, have been unable to secure employment, and have found it very difficult to secure even sufficient food to keep body and soul together, have cursed the day they landed in Queensland. And the correspondence those men

are sending home to the old country will be a very poor advertisement for this great State of ours. Although those people have been passed hy the immigration agents, or the Agent-General or his officers, as agricultural labourers, sc'>res and scores of them have never seen a farm. Onlv the other day, three of them called at the House here, and asked me to get them a pass to Bundaberg. They were men from Liverpool, who had been used to knocking about the docks there, and had never done five minutes' farm work in their lives.

Mr. ·WHITE : They must have lied to the Agent-General.

Mr. BARBER: All I have to say is, if they deceived the Agent-General, then he is very easily deceived. I contend that sufficient in­vestigation has not been made in hundreds of the cases of those people who cowe out here as agri­cultural farmer". I am quite prepared, and this party is q nit e prepared, and wonld bail with delight, as I said some time ago, to see all these large areas of om· land opeUF>d up, and these people put on the land when they come out here. There is room for them. The Government bring them out here with their little capital-some of them with £25 or £50, and some ,,f them in pos­session of £100 or £200. \Vha.t is that? Anyone who has been a working man knows very well that if you are dropped down in a big ciry, practically knowing not half a dozen people in a new country, that it is only a rnatter of a few weeks b -f<>re that £50 is gone. That amount does not go far with a wan and his wife and family. The rents are high here, and living ~xpenses are pretty high in (2ueenshnd, owing­cbidly to the meat monopoly. A man with only £50, if he is unable to get wmk in the firot week or two after he reaches QneenR1and, is very s0on "on his uppers," and the Governmfnt has to look after him. The hon. member for :\1usgrave interjected some time ago r.hat the two or three hundred men out of employment in the J\Ius­grave district did not want work.

Mr. \VHITE: You said so youreelf.

Mr. BARBER : I never said any such thing. I said that 200 or 300 men had been living in that district for months. The officer in charge of the police department in Bundaherg in his report, within the past few weeks, points out that a very large number of men had to be supplied with rations. The labour bureau superintend­ent at Bunrlaberg, from the beginning of this ye·a•·, bad registered not le's than 1,000 names of applicants for work, and during the past month that number has been very materially increased The hon. member for Mmgrave says these men do not want work. I am sure he knows better than that. It may be that 5 or 10 per cent. of these men would prefer to knock about rather than do a hard day's work, but that 10 per cent. does not account for 200 or 300 bv any me:ms. ·Not only is that typical of the conditions in Bun­daberg and the immerliate districts, but the same thing applies also to the Isis district. Only a few weeks ago I f:Ot a letter from a friend of mine who went from Bundaberg to the Mackay district, thinking he would better his condition there. The statement to me was that there were hundreds of men there humping their "bluey" looking for work. \Vhen hon. gentlemen talk about pursuing a vigorous immigration policy in the face of those facts it is little less than a scandal. \Vhen the Premier placed his wonder­ful Rockhampton programme before the electors of Rockhampton, he stated that before granting fre.e passages he would insist upon knowing that there was suitable work at suitable wages for the men introduced. I contend that the Government have taken no steps to ascertain whether there

~f'. Barbef'.]

526 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

wa;.; suitable work, let alone suitable wages, for the men coming to the State. The other week a letter appeared in the Prees in connection wit.h the men sent to \Varbreccan. I think ten or t~velve men \Vere Rent there, anr:l th~y V\ E-:rB paid 5s. or 7s. Gd. a week lees than the rate of wages rnling in the di"tric . The hon. member for Moreton, during hi~ recent election campaign, criticised the :>ttitude of the Labour varty with regard to immigration, and said thot, when the last immigrants arrived thP who's of the others bar! left the Immigration De[J6t. That may be so, but it does not follow that they all found em· ployment, A good number of thoee who have arrived by thr la~t two or three Vf"ssel~, have not been able to secure employment up to the present time. The week bofore last, despite the fact that there were 200 or 300 men out of work in the Bundaberg- district, an advertisement appeared in the Bundaberg paper-which, I believe, wa.q sent by the Immigration Depotrt· ment in Brisbane-nsking for positions for twenty persons likely to land here within the next few days. I say tho,t there is no possibility of those people being able to secure employment. During the debate we have had for the last two or three weeks it h>ts been pointed out that hon members on this side do not agree with each other on the question of immigration, and it is said that some wish to introduce 2,000 or 3,000 immigrants a week. The senior member for To wusville denied that he was in f>t vour of flood­ingthe labour market; but I would like to point out that it has ahuys been the policy of the Con­serv>ctive party to attempt to flood the labour market for the purpose of securing cheap labour, knowing that hy doing so they will set up such competition that men will be almost ready to cut one another's throa.ts to get brearl. And this system will be carried on by the pre~ent Govern· ment, which is dominated by the Conservative party. :Men will be driven to the labour ma.rket, and will be obliged to accept the lowest pittance possible. During the last election the hon. 1nember for Tnwn~villP, in criticiRiog the irnn1i~ gration proposals of the present Premier, said-

HP jumps from the one bank to the other, fishing all the time, and laughjng quietly all the time at those wllo are gulled by lliS bait. Even then, gentlemen, what sort of a bargain does this champion opportunist offer? The hon. memlJer for 'l'ownwille said the other night that he never advocated the intro<lnction of such !Jig numbers. In Townsville, at last election, he said-

The opponent of immigration becomes sud0"enly con­-rcrted ..tn<l hnrrie~ to cover up the very recent past, and makes specious offers and prombes i-O as to trap unthinking voters. Fel1fJw-e1ectors, what, canyon think of a politic:tl weathereoch: who veers round like 1 his r HP surtdenly le;1ps to the other sirle. swallows his ron­victions, aud actually pose>; as an immigration ndvo­cate.

Can you trust such a mnn: If he dereives you to-day, will he s;tan<l by hi:o; word to-morro\v r

Instead of inviting- t('nder.s for 1,000 per week, and then getting cut rates from one company, he goes to one firm, accepts Hs terms, and then prates about a busine~s:ike deal. Why, the t":uga1· inrlustry l'eLJUires 6.000 labourers by next .rune. If the maximum or 200 yer furt.nh:bt actually came there would only be 1,500, where four times the number are required.

I would lik~ to ask where we c mid have put G,OOO imnrigrantR vvit.hin four or ~ix weeks? 'l'hou;:-h the re might have heen 4,000 or ii,OOO karmk: s de,,orted fron1 this State, yet there \Vas a large nun1ber of our O\Vn young p; ople \\' ho wnuld have done the Wllrk more saHsfactorily than the kannkaf{ sn far Fh ~mrve~ting tile Cctne is concerned. ~'\_nd tbere are ~cort-'R and hundrerlR of t.he be 1t cntt.ers in Quef'nsland tn-day "ho will be unable to secure employn1ent this ReatJ1lll owing to th"' sb~rt crr>n, The hem. member for ~Ius­grave anJ t.w ll'uu. Angus Gibson like to see the

[M 1'. Barber.

labour market flooded-there is no doubt about that. During the sitting oft he Sugar Conference t!,e Hon. Ant;us Gibson remarked that the Uo· vernment were insisting on onerons terms, as far­as the planter was concerned, hy making them promise twelve months' employment to the new hands that m:1y come out, and he pointed out; that they could find work for them for six months, after which time tbe season was fini~hed. I wane to know what is to bPcome of the mi'n after the sugar season is over? Is it ri~ht that they should be forced into our town, anri live to a large extent on tbe charity and hospitality of the community? It is not right that we should bring out such large numbers of immigmnts when they can only

· get work tor three or four m•mths in [5 p.m.] the year, and for the Tdt of the

year they have to go battling round for a c-rust to eat, The senior T11Pmber fur Towns­ville said that it would take 192 years to intro­duce 1,000,000 peopiA into this State, which could carry 10,000,000 people with ease. \Vhen Queensland is properly developed-but th~t will be many years ahPad-l know that 1t will carry not only 10,000,000 but 20,000,000 people, but that is a long way to look ahead.

Mr. 'VHITIO: That will never happen under' the Labour patty.

Mr. BARBER: It would happm under the Labour party. \Ve will settle them on tlw land when we" run the show," and we will kee[J them there.

LABOUR NIEMBERs: Hear, hear !

Mr. BARBER : At the present time the­people are being squeezed out of their holdings by tlle money-lenders and financial institutions, but we will make arrangements wherehy the people will get cheap money to go on the land.

Mr. ,fo:\ES: And give them cheap land.

Mr. BARBER: In the first place there will be cheap land, and we will see that there are proper depots establi>hed for the reception and handling of their produce, and the Government, if it iR being run by the Labour party, will see that these people are not squeezed out. by the money-lender and commission agent and shark. It is a notable fact that all the money-lenders and commis::;ion sharks and financial in::;titutions are supporters of the present Government. You saw that o.t the lai't election, l\Jr. Speaker. They came np in shoals to run the postal vote at 10s. 6d. a dav. All this cn,wd, who He living on their wit,, are practically >npporters of the pre· sent Government. The Labour party w1ll see that o~.ce a man goes on the land t.e will be looked afrer, and they will etiCOurage people to go on the land. In time" of stress and storm and drought these people wiil be looked after by the Govt>rnrr1ent, Rnd inf'tead of falling into the hand . ., of banks ~nd financial im;titntions or midd!ernen, the Government will help them, and give them every encouragement to stay there.

OPPOSITION 1\h;}!BERS : Hear, hear ! Mr. BARBER: The Labour party is blamed

from one end of the Commonwc<lth to the other by people. I do not know whether it is ignorance on their part when they lllake these outrageous statements about the attitude which the La hour pnty take up or whether it is wilful misre[Jre­sentation. I think myself th;;t it can be covered by the latter-" wilful misrepresentation"­simply for party purposes. The c:rgan of ,tl!e Labour party-the TVorker-some ttme ago •ai_d down the position of the Labour party onthiS quesrion of immigr>ttinn. I inlr.nd to read from the TVorke1· an article which appeared some months ago dealing with this particular question, stating in plain terms the attitude of the Labour

Address in Reply. [3 AuGUST.] Address in Reply. 527

party not only in Queensland but of the whole Commonwealth. The article is headed "The More People Cry," and reads >IS follows:-

1;rith regard to the important subject of irnmlgration there is little difference between the policies of the Government and, the O!Jpo:sition.

Mini~ter Denbam announced a few days ago that the Government intend to import large shi}Jments of human beings from Europe at an early date. H.obert Philp, who hopes to be th8 Government in the near future, declares that, given the opportunity, he Will place extensive orders in the old lands fcrr the same line of goods.

Immigration is a policy of people, but it is not a people's policy. One can understand wlly the trader should whoop for it. One can understand employers of labour hailing it with shout~ of joy.

Bnt for the masses of the people State-aided immi­gration is a policy of increasing unemployment and decreasing wages.

It means a glutted labour mnrket ; crowds of men trampling over one another to :match et t the ~ame job; tierce competition amongst tho~e who must sell their labour power or die; the price of labour hlling ever lower an et lower; a deteriorating standard of living.

Nobody objects to people coming here frorn the old world countries. Let them come and welcome But it should be a heotlthy inflow, the natural gravitation of immigrants towards the place of superior attractions, of better conditions and opportunities.

Nobody objects to people coming here. 1Vhatwepro­test against is their being dragged here.

And we say that that is what t.he Government are doing at the present time. It further points out-or enticed here by paid decoys travelling Europe for the purpose, flinging out baits of glowing Ues, gilded deceptions to lure men and women from their hnmes into the ships that the decoys must fill or lose their billets.

There is room in Queensland for millions more, but the increa:se m us!. be by natural, unforced methods, if woe is not to foHow:

The cry that more white ~;eople mn:-t be brought here to defend tbe country against a possiblF3 AsiUtic attack is a mere pretext.

Properly armed, there are enough men in AU5tralia already to hold it again~t all the hordes of Asia. On the Labour party's system of a citizerl solcliery the Common wealth could put 600,000 men in the field.

It is the system that we Jaek, not the men. ·vntbout the system, though t11e population were doubled and trebled, .4 nstrHlia would be in no better position to repel invasion than it i~ to-day.

The aim of State-aided immigration is not to keep out, a supposititious enemy. but to bring in a vmy real one-namely, labour competition, with diHmity and low wages in it8 train, :subduing the people to the level of serfs.

Labourer cornpetr" with labourer now; low wages rule1 in many in:lu~tries now; but with awHkenmg­unioni~m collective bargaining is becoming more fre­quent, am1 a conseqnent uplift in the price of labour is at thi~ YP-ry moment taldng- place.

t is to defeat the urionistic revival, and roll back organised Jjabour's ruarch upon the eitadel of political power, that the polley of .St.nte·aided immigration is devised.

'The production of Anstrnlia Pt•r head of population is the larr;;est in the world, and it hat' always to be llorne in mind that no increase of wenlth tllB.t i!:i not a per capita increRSe can bP- counted as progress. Queens­land, with its half-million Ileoplf', has a per c·tplta pror dnction greater thHn tliat of \~ktoria, with its million and a quarter. OamLdn~held up to ns as an example to imitate.

where whole~ale hurnigmtion has been the policy for years~ has not mneh more than half the per ca.J;ita production of Australia.

As a matter of het we do nnt want more wealth pro­duced; we do not want more work. The need of this Common wealth. as of every other land on earth, is a more equitable distrilmtion of the \YOrk there is already to do, and the wealth that is alre:tdy being cre1ted.

The immigration policy is one aimed at the well-being of Labour. Here and there we get an open avowal of the truth.

Up North, for instance, the agitation for more people ig stripped or all pretence of bringing out only immi­grants with a little eapital.

It mfl.y be noted. too, th~t Philp's manifesto refers to "a vigorous systt:m of State-~tide<l immigration,'' with­out any limitations whatever.

And this, depend upon H, is the renl meaning of the ''~I ore People" ery

Labour is feeling its feet. Unionism it~ slrcngthening. At ~111 co:o;ts it nm:o:t be downed! And the eunning scheme hi!J upon by the caplTalistlc cla.:-;se:-; is one whereby the }Jeople will be made to lf!(V for their own undolng! ")lore veople !" )lore eheatJ lahonr to replnce the kanaka. and the more of conrse the eheaper. )fore C'Hnpetitors in the shops and factmv-;. to krep down tbe WfH;cs tllat unionism ls lifting up. }foro _people to he bled by t11c tru:-;ts and monopolies. ::.\1ore peoplf' to buy the newspapers that hcnvl for immigra­tion. :\:lore peoph~ to be raekrented lJ~r landlords and fleeced hy usurers and taxed by capitalistic politicians fur their own ends.

'' .J.Iore people~" They want more people, just as they want IOOl'e ~heop, and for much the same reason­that they ill<ij' br shorn.

But for the wnrking classes more people means the intensifying of the struggle for existence, the embitter­ing of life, the weakening of their hol.l upon the placAs of leg-islative power, through which alone can come the redress of social wrongs.

Labour's policy is not to bring people here. but to attract tllern here To RO hettcr the conditions of the country, to m»ke Queensland and Australia so good a place to live in. that the strr:uu of irnmigrntion will turn this way by the operation of a. natural law .

. Pind land for onr young people. and remunerative work for them in the trades and industries. 1~stablish State-aided settlements on a sound and liberal system. Cut up the lfestern lands, and at:sist the bnshworkers to start sheep farming on tlleir own. Help the sugar­worker:;; to grow theit own cane by erecting State refineries. Give gencr .us encouragement to the miner and prospector by tile puttinl{ up of State batteries nnd the subsidising or their labour.

That is the true way. \\~hen Queensland has some­thing worth coming fot·, the people will come here quick enough. That article lays down in very clear term" the po,ition of the Labour party Otl the great ques­tion of imu1igration, and on the great qtwstion aH to what is the best method of 'ettling people on the.lands of the State. In the platform of the Victorian Labour party there is a pLmk dealing with as~i::;tance tn farmers and co·nper?.­tive associ?-tiuns, and recumn1ends that tho ~gricultural Department be recon,tructed in such a rnanner a:-; to ·protect tht~ int~re~L~ of the primary producers by placing their produce on the n1arket in the rrwst profitable manner, and prevent them beingdeprivf'd of tile reeult' of their induBtrv through the influence of middlen1en. That p'iank i~ no', only in the platform of the Victorian Lab()nr party, but it is abo in the platform of the South Au,;tr,Jian La\lour party and in that ,,f the ='Jew Ze1land Ln.bonr par1y.

]\fr. HA}!ILTON: It is operating iu South Aus­tralia.

Mr. BARBER: Ye'; it is in operation in South Au:;tra!ia, where the Goverument are endeavouring to a :;;ist the small fanuer. }'rool socialim1 of that kind nobody deri,·es more benefit than the funner, ar1d 1~0 class of people takes: greater arl.vant:Jge of it th.:.tn the cla~ . ..; rcpn-­sented bv sn1all farmers and large landowner~ wlw send thPir :-heep to freezing \VorkH for export to Lr)ndon. Ttlere are Olle or two other rnatters in the Governor~:-; Sr)epch t hnt I should like to refer to. I notice tl1at we a~e prmni~ed a measure d<>almg with the licensing qnt"stion. For the last twenty.four Ol' twenty-five years I have been a str.•ng advocate of llcensing reform, and I have attended with two ol' three d0pntatinns to la.v thi-3 mattPr beftn·e the (}o­verr.ment of the day. I lwpe that the measnre "vhich it; i-, propusf'd to introdnce will be of a very drastic character. There is grea'. need for drastic legislation dealing with the drink tratlic.

Mr. Barber.]

528 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

When speaking on the Address in Reply, or the want of confidence motion, last ses,ic,n-I forget which now-I pointed out that whatever hope the temper"nce party might have had of getting a strong, drastic licensing measure passed in Queensland prior to the coalition, that hope was considerably weakened after the coalition. As I then pointed out, certam elements have crept into the Government-not only in this Chamber but in the other Chamber as well-\\hich made the Government afraid to introduce a drastic licen>ing reform measure, and the opinion I then expressed I adhere to now. \Vhen I consider that the supporters of the Government in this Chamber and in another place are more or less connected with that traffic, I, for one, cannot but think that the Government are afraid to intro­duce the legislation which is necessary to deal with the question, and I believe that opinion is shared by a large numbEr of members of this House, as well as by a large number of persons connected with temj.lerance bodies out~ide. There was a tim·~-prior to the coalition; when the democratic party were in power-when a very ~trong effort was made to carry out as strictly as possible the Sunday closing provisions of the Act; but I must sJty that <luring the past two months those prr>visirms have been very slackly ad­rninistered. There are one or two towns to which I must refer spec' ally in this connection-Rock­hampton and Townsville. \Vhen I WJ.s up at Rockhampton twehe or eighteen months ago the way in which Sunday trade was carried on w·"s simply o. scandal. 1len marched into hotels on a Sund>w, and the hotels did business in almost as large a degree as they did on ordinary working days. \V hy that sort of thing should be allnv, eel to go on in Rockharnpton and Townsville I am at a loss to unde"'tand.

-:\1r. COYXE: Do you mean to say you don't understand rt?

Mr. AIRilY: That must be one of the condi­tions of the coalition.

Mr. BARBER: That may be so; all things are possible under the coalition. I received a le,tter some time Hgo from a gentleman, whom I do not knr,w, except by name, and he tells me that at "' plac~' called Tolga, containing only about 200 to 300 inhabitants, there arP no le;s than six licensed home,. How theY were goin.g to remedy th 1.t "tate of things he did not know. Some time ago-jmt before the House met I think it was-the Government, amidst a great blaring of trumpets, gavt• out to the country and the State generally that they intencled to refuse any further license' being granted where rail­ways were being constructed.

The SECRE'l'AHY FOR RAILWAYS: There wns no blare of trumpets; it was a simple fact.

Mr. BARBER: They made great cRpital out of it, at any rate. But there was absolutely nothing in tht-' business at all, because, aR a matter of fact, it was a case of "locking the stable after the horse is gone " in most places. The licenses had already been granted.

The SECRETARY FOI\ RAILWAYS: Not on the six recent railways.

Mr. BARBER: Probably not on the lines started recently, but in many cases the licenseo had already been granted.

Mr. MANN: \Vhere there is no license there will be shanties, and the Government don't put them down.

Mr. BARBER: That matter can be dealt with if the Government are determined in this matter. I, for one, do not think they have back­bone enough to deal with this matter in a proper rnanner.

The TREASURER : Yes, they have.

[Mr. Barber.

Mr. BARBER: I would be very pleased to see it, but I "hae ma douts" about it. In my opinion, excise officers should be appointed by the 8tate, who would make it their business to g'O round tho'e districts, hunting out these shee­beens and shanties where this "chain lightning" is supplied, which, as we used to say of a certain brand of rum, " It would kill at a thousand yards,'' and possibly some of the· stuff sold at these ,;hanties and sheeheens would kill at a 5-rnile range. There is another thing in con­nection with this business to which I specially wish to refer. I think that the Government, after the present arranf(ements have run out, should not allow any licenses to he granted in connection with refreshment-rooms at railway stations. I say here, as one who travels up and down the line a good deal, that a great am nun t of annoyance is caused to passengers travelling' in the trains. Young fellows jump our of the train, get. two or three nips quick and lively, buy a bottle of grog, and make them­selves absoluoely annoying. There is one other thing about this matter. I believe that our men on the railway, generally speaking, are a sober lot of men; hut rt seerm to me that with the bars staring them in the face there is a dirAct incentive-a direct temptation--to those men to go ancl get a nip. I h>tve no objection to those men h"ving their nip, if they think fit, after their wcrk is done, but I say steps should be taken to prevent the sale of liquor to those men iu working hours. I am not goinc;- to men­tion any name-l in this matter, but I know the railwayrefrPshment·room license is a very serious menac·e not only to these people but to the travel· ling public a' well, and if the Government deal with this question of licensing reform, they should prevent the granting of any further licenS<·~ in connection with railway stations. \Vhere drmk is pa-.ily obtained you are a.l ways going to have trouble. I met a friend of mine three or four weekfl ago, who recently came from Ocean Island, where they have some 2,000 or 3,000 men emplnved, and a large number-I suppose two-thirds 'of the number-are Asiati0s, Xo <tlcoholic drink is allowed on that island, and tbe consequence has been that ever since work of loading ships there was commenced, there has never been any row or trouble on that island. You can understand if drink had been admitted on to that island, there would have been ructions. \Vhile the Government may, to some extent, be complimented on the fact that they have taken action in refusing to grant lice.mes where new railway works are being con­structed it only covero a distance of about 5 or 10 miles: The Government ought to make it about 20 miles each way. I think that the C<tnadian Government have made it 20 miles. There is another matter I wished to refer to but as the junior member for Brisbane S~nth has given notice of a, question bearing on the matter I do not intend to deal with it beyond saying this : Iu the public mind ou~side this Chamber there is a very strong susp1mon that influence was brought to bear from sup­porters of the Government, or lYiinisterial in­fluence, which was able to secure a withdrawal of a certain prosecution. J\l><ny people look upon the matter as nothing less than a scandal. Another matter in connection with this licensing question is this : I hope when the. Bill is jntro­duced-if the Government are alive and mtro­duce the Bill-I hope that we shall find that the three re,olutions that the temperance bodies outside asked the Government to incorporate in that Bill will be found there. Another matter is this: I contend that the issuing of grocers' licenses is a very serious evil. By that r_nethod drink is introduced into scores and scores ot homes in many districts where it would not be found

Address in Reply. [3 AUGUST.] Address in Reply. 529

if th~ purchasers were unable to obtain it from the grocers. I hope provision will be made to wipe out that evil. \Ve have two members of the Cabinet who claim to be strong supporters of the temperance bodies. I hope the hon. mem­ber for Bulimba will do his dutv in this matter. I can assure him that there are thousands of eyes on that hon. gentleman, who expect him to do great things-to achieve something great in this matter. Then there is the hon. member for Kennedy, the Secretary for lYiines, who j., another strong ad vacate of temperance. I know he will use his benevolent influence on the Cabinet, and point out the urgent necessity there is of introducing very drastic legislation in this lll

matter.

lYir. lYIANN: He was never an extremist.

The SF.ORETAHY l<'OR MINES: It all depends on whether we can de!Jend on your SU!Jport.

Mr. BARBER: You can depend on my sup­port.

GoVERNj\[ENT i'viEMBERS: Hear, ht ar!

]\'.fr. BARBER : Unless it is a very wishy­washy measure, which I expect it 'dll be. {Ah! and GovernmBnt langhter.) Xothing hut a measure of the most drastic kind will suit me. I am not an extremist in anything else, but I am an extremist on this drink

queRtHln. I mn :-tg-rrin'lt it every [5.30 p.rn.] time. I have no use fnr it at any

time. I know very well that I cannot wipP out the whole cnrRe at once. You, Sir, have heard Ine expre~s myseif RiHnetimes in un-Bibliul language on this matter, and it is one nf the que.stions on which I always feel constrained to expreRs 1ny~elf in very strong ternlH. You cannot dr. tl with this cur ... ed drink in too drastic n, way. It iR a q_nf'o;;tion with \Vhich you have to get to clcme grip .. -gTip it by the throat.. It is a matter that will have to be dealt with not only in Qlleen,la .. Jd \mt all over the world. Lord Roseberv oncP. ... aid th>tt if the Government rlid not deal wich the drink tr .. lffic the drink traffic would very ,;oon rnle EngLtnd. Th1s rna.tter is receiving tht:> att.,ntion not only of the temperance bodies but of thousrtnds of other people-fathers and mothers of children in this St"te. And in the Snpreme C .. mrt of the United States of Americ .. .o, it has been laid down that no _:-\.merlu;tn citizen has ~tn inherent right in the sale of drink as a beverage. On looking up que or two rnr1tters in connection with the rlrink traffic the other dny, I found that the Supreme Court of Kansa, l<tid it down that--

It is a Panrlorn's box ~.ending torth innumet'Bble ills and woes, shame and di,.grace, indigence, poverty, and want.

The Supreme Court of IndianA- expressed the opinion that-

Its tendency is to destroy the peace, safety, and well-being of the people.

while the National Supreme Court of America has declared-

The statistics of every State show a greater amount of crime and misery attributable to the use of ardent spirits obtained at these li<1nor saloons than to any other source.

It is undoubtedly true that it is the nght of every citizen of the l 7 nited States to pnrsue any lav;;ful trade or busines'l, under snch restrictions as are ·imposed up')n all persons of the same age, sex, and condition.

There is no inherent right in a citizen thus to sell intoxicating liquors by retail; it is not a privilege of a citizen of the State or of a citizen of the United States.

This traffic, Sir, must be grappled with, as it is harmful to material prosperity, perilous to life, destructive of h!lman character, disastrous to peace and happmess, fatal to morals and

1909-2L

religion, and productive of crime and misery. And what the courts of the United States have laid down has been laid down in courts all over the world. As far hack as 1884, the Dominion Parlin,ment of Canada passed the fr,llowin;r resolutions on the motion of the Hon. Geo. E. ]foster:-

'l'hat the object of good government is to vromote the general welfare of the people by the eareful encourage­ment and protection of whatever make-; for the public good, and by eqnally careful discouragement of what­ever tends for the public disadvantage.

That the traffw in alcoholic liquors as beverages is prodnctiYe of seriouR injnries to the moral, social, and industrial welfare of the people of the Commonwealth.

That, dt''lpite all preceding legislation, the evils of intempcranee remain so vast in magnit,ude, so wide in extent, and so destructive in effect, as to constitute a social peril and a, nationa.l n1enace.

That this House is of the opinion, for the reasons herein before set forth, that the right and rno~t effectual means to remedv the evil is by power of parliamentary enactments, by {a) granting full powers of local option to the people, and in prodding facilities by legislative action, whereby at each general election the respective electorates will be able to vote on the (1ll€3tions of con­tinuance, reduction, or no license.

That applies equally to the ~Commonwe~lth of AuHtralia as to the Commonwealth of Canada, and I hope these provisions will be emh0died in the Bill the Governrnent propose to ~ubrnit to this House. I notice tbat we are promised in the Governor's Speech a L·md Act 'unendrnent Bill. T hope thr,t th_· Bill will contain p- ovision to enable people to get on the land quicker than the'.' are able to do at pre,ent. There iR a large nurl1her ()f men in every dis•rict-I know a good n1any in 1uy electorrt-f.e-whn ha~·e no capital. They are n1en \. ho have reared large farnilies and maintained t'1em, bnt h:1ve not been able to save sufficient to enabl8 tb .:.n1 to go on the lanrl. OnJ n1un, for in~tanc:>, ha~ ~.in chil 1ren. He is a very c<'tptthle ma,u, and h<tS be~'n u:,ad to farn1 work; hit~ vvife al ... o lut:; been u;::;ed to farrn work ; and though they st,rongly desire to get on I he land, they are unable to do .~o because of not having Rnfficient e1.pital. I know anPther case of a 1nan with a·wife and •,t,verl children. r.rhat man and woman have worked hard and reared their children respectably, but thrriugh not being able to save sufficient money they are nnt able to take up the land they would like. Seeing that this is a verv serious matter, I think the Govern­rnent shoul'1 make provision for such ca-;es in the promis~d Land Act Amendment Bill. The cases I havn given am typical of thcm.ands. \Vnile it may be dr~irable to encourage practicA-l fanners from the South to·c nne and settle here, I think our own people should be helped firc;t of all, and that facilities should be afforded to them to 'wqnire land and settle on it. \Vi thin the past ye·<r the hon. member for i';Iusgrave and myself have presented to the Lands Department the names of the best l'"rt of 300 men, but up to the present time very few of tbem have been able to get on the land for some reason or other. \Vhether it is owing- to the slowne'" of the machinery or the effete machinery provided to enable them to get on the land I am not prepc"·ed to say, bnt they have not heea able to Ket on the land, though in scores of caseR thev were young men uw~d to farm life-young fellows full of health and vigour, and anxious to settle on the land and produce wealth. That being so, I would jmt like to repeat that I hope the· Go­vernment 'lNill incorpor::lte provisions in the pro~ mised Land Act Amendment Bill which will meet the c:tses I have mentioned. Another matter which I wish to refer to is one which was brought under my notice some time ago in connection with the Logan and Albert cane­growers. The matter of all0wing theee growers

M 'I'. Barbsr.]

530 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

to send their cane to the N erang Central :Hill was brought under the notice of the Treasurer ]a~t. year, an,1, as a matter of fact, was 111ent;i(lned in this Huu,e. At the pre,ent tin,e the Xenwg Mill is being worked only to one-half its cava­city, and we have over ~)00 c -megrowm s in the Logan and Albert dis•rict, who claim to be able to produce 40,000 tons of cane per annum. I understand that theee people recently approached the Treasurer, requesting him to allow them to have their cane >'ent to t11e Xerang l\Iill, but the answer they received from the Treasurer ·was to this effect: that he declined to allow the cane farmers to send their cane there, because the GoYernment did not desire to compete with the private milk That simply means that these men have to submit to what they consider a great injnstice. In the first place, they are re­ceiving only Ss. per ton for their cane. They point out that they have to pay certain epecific rates of wage< for the harvesting and cultivation of their cane, and they are unable to carry on the work in connection with that industry when they can only get Ss. per ton for their cane. If the Treasurer has replied to these men in the W<ty tbat I understand he has, then I would point out that if :t\ erang :\Iill did take their cane it would not be the only mill in the State that competed with private mill owners. The Treasurer is aware, I presume, that the l\Iount Bauple Mill competes with private mills. The :Mount Banple Mill receives cane from right up in the Pial La district. The Gin Gin Mill also competes with private mills. The Mount Bauple Mill manager goes up to the Pialba dis­trict and buys the cane there, yet there are several mills in the lsis that are capable of dealing with any quantity of cane, and a!Ro the Maryborough Sugar Mill, but in spite nf that the Mount Bauple Mill competes with them. I understand also that the Pialba growers are receiving 2s. 6d. per ton more for their cane than they were offered by the l\laryborough Mill. If this is the kind of treatment that the cane­grower is receiving from this Government, then it is no wonder that there is a great outcry amongst the canegrowers and farmers gene­rally; and deRpite anything that the Govern­ment ,,ay about the Ln,hour party being their enemy, the Government are in for a pretty lively time. I consider that the N erang Central Mill should be worked up to its fullest capacity. It would not only mean that the mill would be worked to a fuller capacity than ever before, but certain revenue would a.ccrue to the Railway Departmcmt from the carriage of cane from the different pH.ets of the di~­trict to the :t\ erang Central Mill. I might just tell the Treasurer that probably in a few days he will have a deputation w:,iting un him urging upon hin1 once rnnre the nece9sity of allowing these lllt'll to s0nd their cane vvbere they can secure the best price for their produce. "r think that Ss. per ton is a ridiculous !'rice if the eJ.ne is worth anything at all, as the hon. nlem­ber for .iYinsgrave and the ;\linisler for Agricul­ture krlllw very well. There id anothr:-r matter I wbh to df tl with. Speaking of the cane indus­try, I would l1ke to make sonw reference to the appointment of the new Comptroller of Central Suf!ar l\lills 11r. Pmldle. I was only waiting for the votf' on the "no confidenct 1

.' motion to be di>posed of bef<lff' movin;; that there he laid on the table of the Honse copieil of all the applica­tions from the different gentlemen who applied f";r that p(fsitinu, together \Yith their credentials. I think myself that a Fry serious mis'ake has heen made in the appointment of ::\Ir. Paddle fur this pusitior.

Mr. MANN: Hear, hear! He is utterly useless for the position. Look at his record!

[Mr. Barber.

Mr. BARBER: I do not hold any brief for any ruan in this rnatter, and I do not know how many application, were in for the vosition.

Mr. AIREY: Twenty-five, I think.

:J\Ir. BARBJ<";R : I certainly think that the Government could have chosen a man who was better suited for the position-more com~etent, more efficient, with proper knowledge not only of cultiYation of cane but of machinery and all the chemical processes and everything con­nected with the ramifications of the sugar in­dustry, tlmn the gentlem~n who holds the position at present.

., Mr. ::\IANN : The Treasurer who appointed him knows nothing whatever about sugar.

Mr. BARBER : The responsib1lity for the appointment rEnts with the Treasurer, as he is head of the department and is responsible for the good and efficient working of the central mill,. I wish to tell the hon. gentleman here that whatever opinion he may hold-I do not know that mine will influence him much-but I say that the hon. gentleman has made a great blunder in the appointment which he has made.

The THEASGilER : That is only your opinion.

Mr. BARBER : It is the general opinion 0f people 1 meet outside.

Mr. LENNON : Yes, it is the general opinion. The TllEASURER: Not by any means.

Mr. BARBER: The hon. gentleman may say "Not by any rnean~,'' and wave his hand-a habit he has acquired from the Premier-but I say that it is a matter of very grave concern among the pe >pie who are experts in the sugar industry in (~ueensland, and they consider that a great mi><take has been made in the appoint­ment of Mr. Paddle to this position.

Mr. AmEY : He is a very second-rate man. Mr. MANN: Look at his Mossman record!

Mr. BARBER: One of the other app!i<;ants I have met. He was second in command to Dr. JYiaxwell. He is a man who holds the \'ery high­est credentials in connection with the sugar in­dustry of any man in Queensland. JY1r. Speaker, you remember yourself no doubt that when Dr. Maxwell cm three or four different occasions was eent down South by the-sugar gTowers of this State and when he went to ">lelbournP to confer with the }'ederal Government about the Queens­land sug:.r industry, the gentleman I refer to, who is at present manager of the Gin Gin Central :Mill, was always looked upnn as Dr . .iYiaxwell's deputy. I would he sadly mistaken if we looked through the "Vote;:-; and Proceedings "and par­liament<lry reports if we did not find several re­ports pertainin>< to the mechanical side of this que,,tion, and this work was delegated to l\Ir. De<;'.pla.ee to carry our, and ~vnu vvill find his na1ne atLtehed to those nr.v documents.

Mr. AmEY: The Premier spoke most highly of him.

Mr. BARBER: I am just coming to that. I retnmnber Rorne time ago when the present Pre­mier was visiting the l\loreton district. I will read ::tn extract frrnn the Uunrier to show what the Premier thought of Mr. Desplace's capabilities.

Mr. MANN : ·when the Premier has a high O!Jinion of a man he ahn1Y'' degrades him. The !llan whom he said was t:,e brst ::\Iinister fflr Lands hu s nt to the' Home Office.

Mr. BARB}~!{: That;, a characteristic of the Premier 1 \\as not aware or. rrhe Courier of 27th October, 1!106, in its report of a deputation which waited on the Premier, .iYir. Kidston, said-

3-Ir. CAJIPRELL said the Government had a chance of assisting the canegrowers of 2\Ioreton Mill. llr.

Address in Reply. [3 AUGUST.] Address in Reply. 531

Desplace's management had given general satisfaction; the new management hn.d offered him the control, and sta,ted that be would hH.ve an absolutely free hand. He was offered £750, wbir-h was an advance on his salary, but it was rumoured th lt DJ•. ::\1axwell had offered him £1,250, btt?tU~G he said hfl wa.nted him elsewhere. rl'hiS would operate badly against the .More ton ::\Iill growers. It was not rigl1t, because it wat'i going to humbug the mill.

Mr. KIDSTO~ said the GoYernment had no interest to humbug tbe mill. He (}fr. Kidston} knew what a good man Mr. Desplaco was, and it was due to his capacity that the mill was in such a good position. He had no desire to shift him, but he did not know the requirements of the mills elsewhere.

:J.ir. CA:'IIPBELL: They got on without him before, ~fr. KIDSTON said he would make inquiry, but he

could say nothing until he knew the facts.

They offered him a five y<>trs' engagement at a salary of £7iJO a year, 2~ per cent. participation in the net profits, guaranteeing it at not less than £300 per year, also free house, free light, wood, and water, keep of two horses, and the assistance of a groom. On the 22nd July, 1908, the Bundaberg Mail, which was not a friend of Dr. Maxwe!l, strongly urged the appointment of Mr. Desplace, pointing out his excellent qualificatiOns, and stating that virtually he was the comptroller of State sugar-mills. \Vas there one man among all the applicants for the posi­tion who pos'e"sed the all-round qualifications of l\Ir. Des place?

Mr. AIREY : He was und::mbtedly the best man among them.

Mr. BARBER: A weak man was appointed, and he had not been appointed a month before there were outcries against him all over the country. I understand that even Dr. l\iaxwell recommended 1\lr. Desplace as the m\tn best qualified for the position. Mr. Desplace had been five years on Dr. Maxwell's staff as mill manager and inspecting engineer, and had acted as deputy comptroller of mill~, especially during Dr. Maxwell's absence in lYie!bourne. The appointment which has been made has caused considerable disappointment among the sugar­growers, and I am Rtrongly inclined to think that the Trea"urer, if he is re,ponsible for the appointment, will regret H, eeeing that he has appointed a man who does not pns,e-s the neces­sary qualifications for so important an office. There are just a few more matters on which I desire to say something. I have already said that I feel more concorned about matters that are not mentioned in the Lieutenant-Governor's Speech than I do about matters that are included in it. One of the matters mentioned in the Speech is a Bill to amend the \Vorkers' CompenRation Act. The Premier, speaking at Gym[Jie last Saturday night in that free and easy w.:ty of hi ,-more or less true and more or less untrue-stated that it was owing to the obstruutive tactics of the Labour party tba.t the \Vorkers' Compensation Act was not amended.

:\1r. :VIuRPHY: It wa.s not on the Government programme.

Mr. BARBER: As a m~tter of fact, the mem­bers of the Labour part.y former! a dt'pUt~tion and waited on the Premier last year, aud urged upon him the necessity for amending that Act.

Mr. Con.;E: What did he say to the deputa-tion? ·

Mr. BARBER : He said it waR ab3olutely im­possible for the mea'IIre to be introduced la~t year. Yet he gave tbe people of Gym pie and the people of the cmntry to understRnd last Saturday night that it was owiitg to whnt he termed the obstructive tactic> of the Labour party that tbe Act was not amended last year. Every member of the Labour party has etrongly urged the necessity for amending that Act. and I believe that members of the Independent Oppo-

sition have also during the debate this se~sion on the want of confidence amendment urged the sa.n1e thing. ·

Mr. M URPHY : The leader of this party drafted a Bill.

Mr. BARBER: A deputation recently waited upon the Prernier in connection with the matter, and the hon. member for North Rockharnpton, who was a member of thnt deputation, hurnour­ously :cemarked that the Premier would bring in an amending Bill if be was allowed to do so. The only inference I can draw from that remark is that while the five or six melllbers of the democratic section who are stilllefc in the p>1rty might be prepared to introduce such a measure, the conservatives, who form the strongest sec­tion of the party, will not allow it to be intro­duced.

Mr. GRANT : How can the Government bring in a Bill if you talk for three hours ?

Mr. BARBER: \Vhen members on that side talk for three and a-half hours, the hon. member has very little room tu complain of the length of our speeches. I have not half done yet, I may

inform the hon. member. At the [7 p.m.J time the \Vorkers' Compensation

Act was passed by this House, it was pointed out that it was a very up-to-date and comprehensive piece of machinery to deal with accidents to workers. But, like most Acts of Parliament, it is only after twelve months', or perhaps two years', exp~rience of the working of those measures that we find out where their wPaknesses are. It was pointed out in New Zealand, from which I beheve the provisions of the Act were taken, that the New Zealand Act was looked upon as a fairly up-to-date Bill at the time, but in the old country, immediately after the election of l90G, when some fifty or sixty Labour men were returned, the House of Commons brought in an amending Bill dealing with workmen's compensation ; and, although the Labour party in the House of Com­mons did not manage to wipe out the time limit altogether, they were able to get the time considerably reduced. Another point in this matter is that the Government, almost imme­diately after the passage of the \Vorkers' Compensation Act through this House, paid their men who were incapacitated by an accident from the first day of receiving the injury. I think it is abont tirne that this House took action in having this \Vorkers' Compensation A et amended. There is another matter which a unnsidemble number of members of this House expected to find a place in the Government programme, and that is a Bill dealing with State insurance. The junior member for Gympie went into that matter fairly fnlly the other night. He gave a large number of facts anfl fignres, and went into the financial aspect as it affected the people of New Zealand, and therefore I do not intend to read out the same set of figures. ~There is another matter which I think should have found a place in the Government programme, and that is a Bill to provide for a labDur registry office in Brisbane and the big centres in Queens­land. At the present time a lar~e number of unemployed, or peopl" who have to go to these private registry offices, are more or le~s fleeced by the people wno run those institu­tions. I have no doubt, when the Government broadened the provisions of the State registry department, they harl an idea that they •vould wive out the priv:ttf• labour registry offices. But I can assure this House that they h:we not done so by any means. The people seeking wnrk here, both male and female, have to register their names, for which a charge is made, and some of the,m are called upon to pay, sometimes three days', sometin1es a week's, and sometimes

Mr. BarbM".]

532 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

as high as a fortnight's wages for the job they are sent tn. A friend of mine went to one of ~hes~ offic· ., in reply to an ad vortisemen t appear­mg m thP p cpers for a horsedriver. He was a very capable man, and had been amongst horses the best part of his life, but the demand made by the proprietor of the registry office was so exorbi­tant that he refused to take the job. Th@ agent wanted the first fortnight's wages from this man before he would let him ha.ve the job. This is downright robbery, and I think the GovPrnment should, at any rate, have brought in a Bill this session to deal with this. matter, so that every one of thoee labour registry bureaux should be placed under State control. In New Zealand they are under St<tte control, and have to get a license, for which they pay 10s. a year, and the labour departments are open to the Government inspector at any time. Another very necessary Bill, or amending Bill that should have found a pbce in the Hove;nrnent pro­gramme-and I am very much at a loss to under­stand why there is no mention ot it-is an amen~ment of the Inspection of Scaffolding and :iYiachmery Act. Last year when th><t measure passed through this House a blunder was made in regard to engine-driver.;. Probably thirty men have written to me to ascertain if the Govern­ment. intendPd to amend the Act, or whether they mtende:l to make any alteration at all.

The SgcnETARY FOR RAILWAYS: The Bill is prepared. It is in the box.

Mr. BARBER: It is in the hox. A lot of thes3 rnPn--engine-drivers-\vhen thtx s.-:;nt in their old certific~tes and received the new ones got a bit of a fri.rht. They got the idea that if they went on dri '• ing engine:-; nf a higher horAe­power than the l3ill provided for, they woulrl be liable to proce,oution. I got a letter si«ned by sixteen nr se-vente •n n1en in the :\.'1::-lCkay dis­tric~, but, having made inquiries:, T found that, owing to the omi:;;siun or the hlunrler 1nade last yG:~.r, the Go\-ernrnent are not going to ta.ke an_y acvion as far as pros('cutions are concerned. Another matter I thought would have been included in the Government programme was the abolition of the Oont,lgious Dist.a-es Act. There was. very considerable discuss_ion last year, durn1~ the passage of the J'~stunate-; on this question, and the then Home Secretary who is now 'rr,"asurer, brought in corresp{n{dPnce and requests by deputations in favour of the abolition of the Act. One thing we are promised is a Trade Disputes Bill, bnt whether it will come up to my expectation-wbHther it will he a proper ~traight-out Trade Disputes Bill-I am very doubtful, because we know very well the attitude several members supporting the Govern­ment took up some )'Hars ago, when they threatened to vote agamst all legislation of that charactPr. ·what I would like would he a copy of the English Act. vVhen the Horn, Secretarv was speaking, in reply to an interjection, he said it was fou!'ded on the English Act, and the Prermer said the -ame thing when speakin · at Boonah; but it is difficult to say how mnch of the English Act they are going to take. There are only three clauses in the English Act, which reads this way-A BILL TO AMEKn THE LAW RELATING TO TRADE Uli\IOXS

AND TRADE A~D OTHER DISPUTES.

Be it enacted, etc. :

. 1. It shall ?e lawful for any person or persons acting e1tber on then own behalf or on behalf of a. trade union or other association of individuals, registered or unre· gistered, in contemplation of or during the continuance of any trade dispute, to attend for anY of the following pu1:poses at or near a house or place where a person ~~st~=-: or works, or carries on his busine:!ls, or happens

(1) For the pmpose of peacefully obtaining or communicating information;

[Mr. Barber.

{2) For the purpose of peacefully persuading any person to work or abstain from working.

2. An agreentent or combina.tion by two or more persons to do or procure to be done any act in contem­plation or furtherauce of a trade dispute shall not be ground for an action, if such an act when comxittcd by one person would not be ground for an action.

3. An action shall not be brought against a trade union, or other association aforesaid, for the recovery of damage sustained by any person or persons by reason of the action of a member or members of such trade union or other association aforBsaid.

The hon. member for Townsville, Mr. Philp, when speaking at Engelsburg, said-

A Tra,de Disputes Bill which was introduced by :.\Ir. Bowman would be of a character to permit of a man getting behind a lnad of blue metal and pelting at the men who did not agree with the nu ion. (A.p]Jlause.l

There must be something wrong with the hon. gentleman--one is at a lo·"s to know what he means. I have read the whole of the English Trade Dispnt•' Act, and anything that falls short of that Act will not be worth anything to the trade unions-to the workers of Qneensland. But I have my doubts as to whether the Govern­ment will introduce the measure Rt all. They may prate alnut their democracy, hut to me it appearR likP so mnch lll(Wnshine; and I have Yery little faith in the Government attempting to pclSS

the democratic rneasures rnen tinned in the Speech, bee <.me they will not be allowed to do so by the controlling element on the other side. I wish now to refer to a matter that is inflicting­considerable hardship on many people in one 1mrt of Bnndahertr, and has done so for ~~ ntnnber of year·'· ~ome Y"'ars a.go a bridge was built acro~s the Bnrnett; 1-{iver, and the Bnndu.berg J\lunicipal Council and the Gobnrrum Shire Conncil have to shouldt"r the respomibility of collectiug ,,ntficient toll on thA bridge to pay the interc ;!; on tb1 cost and the upkeep of the bridge. I may say that bridge is the only bridge in t{!<eensland to-day on which a toll is collected. It s,n-onrs very mucb of the old barbaric da\ s whetl people bud to pay tolls. I think the actual capital cost of the bridg-e w>es £58,000, for which the Government advanced one-half, and the two component bodies-the l3undaherg Town C mncil and the Goburrum Shire Council-found the other half. I believe that tberr ace Ji,·ing on the nnrth side two or three familir'S who have to work in town. Seeing that they have to g0 backwards and forwards three or foe~r times a day, you wiH understand that it means a big· reduction m their wages at the end of the week. I had mtended to take up ~nn1e considerable ti1ne to go into this matter. I wished to go into the whole history of the case, especially atter rea•ling thr; correspondence at the Home Socretary"s Office, and seeing the memoranda attaclwd to them by Sir Hurace 'fozer and others. At the time Sir Rorace Tozer was Home Secretary, I am convinced that it was intended that that should be a free bndge. At the present time the local authorities round about Brisbane have to bear the Cc>st of the Vic­toria Bridge, for the npkeep of that structure. The sa,me thing occurs in connection with the bridge at l\!Iaryborongh, and I believe that some money is being collected in connection with the bridge at Rockhamptun, through the local authorities.

Mr. KERR: Yes. Mr. BARTOX : And Mount Crosby . Mr. AIREY: Eundaberg is the only bridge in

the State where a toll is paid. It is a disgrace.

J\Ir. BARBER: Now that we live in civilised times I think that this barbaric idea of collecting toll for that bridge or any other bridge should be wiped ont.

l\!Ir. BARTON : What about Mount Crosby?

Address in Reply. [3 AUGUST.] Address in Reply. 533

Mr. BARBER : To my mind, these bridges are national high ways, and should be constructed by the Government.

Mr. AIHEY : You might ftS well have a toll­bar in the middle of the street.

Mr. BARBER : I think so. During the short period that the Philp Government were in power, just prior to the last election-they got there somehow by sorr1e devious means-and it was a! ways a surprise to the people of this State how they got there.

Mr. KERR : vVbat the people were surprised at was hnw they stayed there.

Mr. BARBER: When the Philp Government were in power at that time the Home Secretary, :Mr. Denham, received a deputation from the delegates from the local authorities around about Brisbane. I do not know that they went so far as to ask that the debt on the Victoria Bridge be wiped out so that no further sums of money should be collected from the fifteen or sixteen local authorities about Brisbane, but, so far as I remember from reading the report, they went a long way towards having that brought about. The Home Secretary pointed out that they were on the eve of a general election, and he did not feel justified in making any specific promise as to what the Government intended to do or what it would do just then. I think myself that all the local authoritie; that are affected by these charges ought to organise a big deputation-a strong deputation-to wait upon the Government and ask that the whole of the debt be wiped out from these bridges.

::\1r. AHMSTRONG: You object to the principle that those who derive the benefit should pay for the benefit?

Mr. BARBER: I had intended to go into the full history of this matter, but there are one or two gentlemen who wish to spe •k to-night, and I will not go any further into that matter. The other night on<> or two members referred to the Labour party as standing for socialism. Every member of this party is prepared to advocate socilLlism both in this House "nd on the plat­form outside of this House. Stateme'lts have been made by hon. members in this House at various ti1nes thn,t socialhnn rneans the confisca­tion of all property, even down to the 16-perch allotment, but I say that those state­ments are absolutely untrue. The hon. mem­ber for Clermont has been considerably praised by the Press for making a statement here that the Labour party favonred putting on a land tax anrl driving the f~trmers off the land. I wish to say that the Labour p:uty have no such intention. \Ve stand fnr a straight­out land tax. \Ve do not believe that it would hurt the farmer, hut we consider that it would enable more people to get on the land than what are able to get there at the present time. Our object in advocating the land tax is not to drive people off the land at all. At the present time there are large areas of land held by lanrl mon­opolists, and we believe that a graduated land tax on our statute-books would apply to these propertieo, and it would not only bring some more revenue to the State, but it would mean that thousands of acres of land at present held by these land monopolists would be open for selec­tion, as they would be compellerl to cut them up, and people would then not only be able to get cheap land, but they would be able to settle on land that was fit for cultivation and provide a home for their familie0.

Mr. GHAYSON: \V hat exPmption?

Mr. BARBER: £300. Mr. GRAYSON: I am glad to get that admis­

sion.

Mr. BARBER : £300 is the exemption men· tinned in our platform. \Ve believe in a tax, but not on improvements. \Ve will not tax the hon. member's fowlhouse or his pigsty. vVe would not count them in at all. Irencing· would not be affected at all. \Ve simply take the unimproved value, and tax it. If the land was valued at £], 600 and £300 taken off, that would mean that we would tax land to the value of £1,300.

Mr. GRAYSO:'i": Is that ls. in the £1? Mr. BARBER.: No; decidedly not. Mr. GnAYSON: How much? The SPEAKER: Order ! 'l'he hon. gentle­

man is not in order in making a running corn~ mentwhile a member is speaking.

Mr. BARBER.: Probably ld. in the £1 up to £bOO, and the rest are details which we will give the hon. member by and by. On looking over the numbers of papers which I collected during the last five or six years that I have been in Parliament I came across a return which had been asked for by Mr. J. C. Stewart, then mem­ber for North Rockhampton, showing the owners of land amounting to 640 acres and upwards. I went through this list last night, and although probably some of this freehold land is not held by the snme owner it is a fair average of the large areas held by these monopclists. I have pencilled all the holdings over 20,000 a~res of freehold, and I was very much surpnsed to find out from this return what a large number of people or companies or finan· cial inst.itntion~ there are in the State who own over 20,000 acres of freehold in lhis State. Some of those holdings comprise areas of GO,OOO

and 70,000 acres, and one as much [7.30 p.m.] as 92,000 acres. That being the

case, is it any wonder that we find it difficult to find land suitable for people to settle on? I know that the Government have large areas available at the present time, but the most of that land is too far removed from the coast or from a rail way for settlement purpc,es, and it would take surne time to survey the country and make it fit for settlers. That is one of the reasons why the Labonr party advocate a land tax. \Ve believe that by the imposition of a graduated land tax we should be able to compel people holding these large areas within reason­able distance of a railway to cut them up and dispose of the land to small farmers. vVe do not want a land tax which will interfere with the small farmer. \Ve want to see more farmers on the land, and we want to see the land cultivated to its highest possible pitch, and we believe that a graduated land tax would bring about this necessary alteration in hnd ownership. I do not know whether I shall be in order in referring to some remarks made by the Premier the other night in connection with the Labour party and the Trades Hall. Those remarks were made during his reply to the lf'J>der of the Opposition.

Mr. MuLLAN: He made them in the country, too.

Mr. BARBER: Yes, he made them in the country also, and they are remarks which de· mand a reply. They have been replied to by one member of this party, but as secretary of the party, and as one who probably knows as much about the busine<s as anyone, I desire to reply to one or two of his statements. During the wonderful tour the hon. gentleman made in Central and Northern Queensland he endea­voured to make the people believe that he was dri \'en from the ranks of the Labour p"rty. One statement he made was that the majority of socialists in the party had driven him out of the party. That statement is not correct. As a matter of fact, at that time there were thirty-four

Mr. Barber.]

534 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Repl,y.

Labour members in this Hause. Sixteen of them, in addition to the Premier, went to the country on their own platform, and the other seventeen went to the country as straight­out Labour candidates. At the meetings which the Premier held all down the coast, at Mount Morgan, Hockhampton, Toowoomba, and various other places, and also at meetings which he addressed during the recent elec­tion campaign in Jliioreton, be stated that the Labour platform was made rnore socialist in 1905 than it had ever been before. That state­ment was made to gull unthinking electors into the belief that the members of the present Labour party had left the hnn. gentlmnan. In some instances the ban. gentleman pleaded with the crowd to give him their best attention. He was anxious to prove to his 11udiences that it was the terrible Trades Hall that bad induced the Labour party to tnove a want of CL,nfidence motion, that it was through the influence of the Trades Hall that the present Labour party had fought against him and were still fighting against him. Statements like that mig-ht have some effect upon a few people outside, but I do not believe they will he,ve much effect on the large mass of electors in Queensland. 'l'he hon. gentle­man in pleading with his audiences to focus their attention on the terrible Trades Hall re­minded me of a professor who was delivering a lectnre on one occasion about the awful destructive characteristics of the rhinoceros. After the professor had enumerated a few of the destructive characteristics of the animal, some of the audience became re,.tle88, and he said: "Now, ladies and gentlemen, I must demand yonr closest attention; unless I have your clo.;est attention, I shall fail to di>cover to you what an awful anin.al the rhinocercs is." And it was in some such terms that the Premier enrleavmtred to point out to the crowd of electors at the various meetings he addressed what awful iniquities had been committed by the Trades Hall and the Labour party. Another statement the hon. gentleman made w11s that, at the time he wrote a certain letter to this party asking for our assistance to deal with another place, we refused him that assistance. The bon. gentleman at that time wanted inmmnity from opposition hy the Labour party for his candidates at the election. The letter I refer to was written on the 4th November, 1907, and runs as follows:-

Gentlemcn,-The action of the conservative majority in the Legislative Council in Tejecting the }:lection:;:; Bill, and their undisgui~:ied hostility towards all progres­sive legislation, compels the Government, pledged as they are to carry out a large n urn ber of reform mea­sures, to consider what action is necessary to deal with this obstruction.

The Conservative party, discredited in the country, have found a ln::;t hope in the Legislative Council, and from that entrenchment continue to thwart the wishes and a::;plrations of the people of Queensland.

The letter is rather lengthy, and I shall not read any more of it. It was published at the time in the Worker and one of the leading newspapers in Brisbane. This is the reply we sent to him-

Sir,-! am instructtd to acknowledge the receipt or your communication of the 4th inE1-tant, addrel:lsed to the chairman and members of the Parliamentary Labour party, and to F;tate that after being fully considered by that party at the usual weekly meeting held this morn­ing, .YOUr suggestions are being referred to the joint executivE"' of the lJ~rlinmencary Labon1· party and the Central Political Executive respectively, and further, that a reply 'vill be forwarded you at the eatliest date possible.

Yours faithfully,

GF.ORGE P. BARBFR, Hon. Secretary.

The irr.pression that the hon. gentleman en­deavoured to convey to the audience outside, and also to the me m hers of this House, was that we

[Mr. Barber.

bad to refer this letter to the Trades Hall, or, as the hon. member for FiLzroy would say, "To the people on the 'ill."

The SPEAKER: Order, order!

Mr. BARBER : The Premier has stated over and over again that we were not free men in this matter. At the meeting to which this letter was referred, there were no less than nine members of the Parliamentary Labour party and five other members uf the executive, and yet, despite that fact, no member of this party was prepared to fall in with the suggestions made by the Pre­mier. Snn1e days after, that was after the b1t of a knock out, when we went to the country-a second election was held ,;x months afterwards­the hem. gentleman came to our parLy in a very despondent tone, and asked that this pa1ty should assist him in fighting the Philp Govern­ment aud we not only promised him that assist­ance ~n that occasion, but we promised him the as::;istance right then, and, a'l a n1atter of Ltet, pas,ed a motion that the whole n sources of the Parliamentarv La,bour party should be concen­trated U[Jon defeating the Philp Government. The hon. gentleman, when he attended tha_t meet­ing never ,<aid a. word >tbout the Leg1slallve Cot;ncil then, and the remark that has been made by him in the country that we refused to help him to fight the Upper House was very much outeide the rrmrk. I remember when the hon. gentleman first b1 oke with the Labour party­that i' openly. He came down to the party's caucus meeting in that swaggering and elephan­tine walk of his down George strett. Pro­bably he would have come down in the motor­car if he bad one then, with t!Je idea that be wonld impress members of this party more with a sense of his importance. After pointing nut the pnsitinn to members of the Labour party generally, he demanded, when he "e;tt_ to the country, thH.t he should have und1v1ded al­legiance, and that udess we WGre prepared to fall in with the Government programme, the member~ of this party not only would not be endorsed but they would be oppued .. After s,nne discusl3ion on the matter, the Parhamen~ t&ry Lacour party was not prepare•!_ to fall in with that, and the hon. gentleman, wrt.h a very strong Australian adjective, mid, "It is no good me talking here to a lot of unre"sonable men like you." He tried to bounce "' into support­ing him on that occasion. The platform that he i<poke about the other night-by the way, the Secretary tor J.\ilines also, in tl1e course of a three and a-half hours' speech, rnadto various remarks about the same thing. I must say that I thought the ho'l. [lentleman's speech was so weak that I had tu desecrate the Sabbath to read up what the hon. gentleman had to say.

The SEORE'l'AHY ~'OR ll.lrNES : What is the good of blowing about it?

Mr. BARBER: I have here the whole of the Labour platforms is"1ed in Queensland ever since the Labour party was formed. I am not going to read them to the Home in detail, because it is now some fifteen or sixteen years since the first platform w.>s is.ued, and year after year it has been placed be~ ore this House., But for the Premier and the Secretary for Mmes to attempt to delude this Rouse or the electors of Queensland with the statement that the Labour platform of 1905 was more drastic, or more socialistic, than that of 18!)3-that is not a cor­rect statement. The hon. gentleman knows very well, and, I presume, hP has been cautions enough to save up every one of the platforms ever issued by this party-be knows very well that our first Labour platform was largely based upon the rules of the Australian La hour Federa­tion, and that, in the second column-which IS

Address zn Reply. [3 .AUGUST.] AddTess in Reply. 535

largely taken up in defining the political ainn of the Australian Labour Feder..,tion-there are five or six paragraphs just ao soci>1listic as anything that was embodied in the 1!!05 pia tform of the Labour party. I will just read them-

1. The n~tionalisation of all sources of \vealth and all means of producing and exchanging wealth.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES : That is the Australian L1bour l<'ederation you are reading from.

Mr. BARBER: The Labour platform was based on these rules.

The SECRETARY l!'OR MINES: Not at all.

11r. BARBER : I have hunted up the discus­sion that took plac1 at that first LabJur confer­ence, and there w:t·l a resolution passed at that conference wmewhat to this effect-

That no departure should be made from tbe principles embodied in these rules.

The hon. gentleman knows that, or he ought to know it; anrl, by the woty, the Premier was a delegate to that conference.

2. The conducting by the State authority of all pro­duction and or all exchange,

3. The pensionin~ by the State authority of all child, ag·ed, and inval1d citizens.

4. The saving by the State a-uthority of such propor­tion of the joint wealth production ~.s may be re(1nisite for instituting, maintaining, and increasing national capital.

5. The maintenance by the State authority from the joint wealth production or ail educational and sanitary institutions.

6. The just division among all the citizens of the State or all Wdaltil production, less only that part retained for public and common requh·ements.

7. 'J1he reorganisation of society upon th~ above lines to be eommencrd at once, and pnr~med uninterruptedly until social justice is fully secured to each and e-vn·y citizen.

The SECRETARY l!'OR J\irNES: The Premier was not on that conference.

:\fr. BARBER: The "People', Parliamentary Platform" was as follows:-

1. Universal white adult suffrage for all parlia­mentary and local elections ; no plural voting ; no nominee or properLy qualification chamber.

2. State registr,' .tion or all citi1;ens as elector.~. 3. Provision for full and complete enfranchisement

of the floating population. 4. All parliamentary elections on one day, and that

day a close holiday, and all public-houses closed. 5. Abolition of veto.

That w,,s the first platform, and was practi­cally based on the Australian Labour Federa­tion Rule.> of lSfJO, and I would like to point this out: That while the first plank of what was then called "The People's Parliamentary Platform," provided for universal adult suf­frage, the Premier got it adopted to read " one man one vote." A reso1utwn was pa~SA(l at that meeting to the effect that no departtire should be made from the motin princq>les em­bodied in the platform of the Australian L'bour Federation. The hon. gentleman signed the platform on three or four occasions, and it was only a few years ago that he seemed to botulk at the idPt of signing it. I am sorry the junior .member for Toowuomba is not here because I have something to say in reference tJ, that hon. member. He has stated on one or two occasions that he has never broken any pledge ; but, of all the members who have left this party, his name will go down to posterity M having committed what was the lowest and dirtiest trick on the Labour party.

The SPEAKER: Order, order! 'l'he hon. member must know that language of that kind

is quite outside the hounds of parliamentary propriety, and I must ask him to withdraw the remark.

Mr. BARBER: I withdraw the phrase, but I can't think of another word in my vocabulary that will adequately fit the situation. I say that no member who has left the party ever played such a shabby trick on the party as the junior rnember for Toowo0mba.

ThA SECRETARY ~'OR MINES : Look at the members on the cross benche,.

Mr. BARBER : I cannot hear the hon. mem­ber's weak voice.

The SECRE~'ARY FOR Mna;s: You don't want to hear it.

Mr. BARBER: Probably the junior member for r.roowu('tnba will read n1y remarks in Han­sard. That hon. gentleman attended the 1905 con­ferenc:~1 and, in the very strongest term~, hA not only supported the present objective of the party, but he voted against an arnendment pro­posed by the present J\iinister for Mines, who wanted to introduce a much w0~l<er objective. He also attended the Labour Conference of 1907, in Rockhampton, ae a delegate from Drayton and Toowoomb,'L. L::tter (lll he was nominatPd as the Labour candidate for Toowoomba. He sat on our executive for :m me weeks afterwards and as~isterl to endorse himself and others, and where the shabbine,,s of the trick came in was that he held on to the LaboL1r candidature until the very eve of nomination, and tl1en oent a letter to the Labonr orgctnisatwn in '.roowoomba pointing out that he could not run as a candidate undPr the auspices of the Drayton and Too­wonmb t. Labour organi~ation~when it was abso­lutely impossible tor the organi,o,tion to nomi­nate anott1er candidate for that election. The bon. gentleman has thott record, ann I wish to remin'd the electors of Drayton and Toowoomba of the fac~ through the columns of Hctnsard. A few weeks ago the Premier visited Bnndaberg for the purpose of forming a branch of the People'::; Progre.-.si ve League, bnt he did not have a public meeting. The meetinf< was called by private circular. I believe the hon. member for J\Ju,grave was there and enjoyed himself very much.

Mr. WHITE: Why should I not! Yir. BARBER: There is no reason why the

hon. gentleman ,,hould not. The peculiar part of the business was that the Premier had the ser­geant of police and two acting sergeants as a bodyguard on the footpath. The passage to the inner hall is about 25 feet long; and the Premier was eviJently so scared that som"bocly of the wrong brand of politics might find a way in that he had two members of the N.L.U., or "National A~s., '' at the door, two n1ore a little way along, and two more at the end of the passage to scrutinise the people who went in-so afraid was he that some L&bour man or socialist would !'et there. I underst>1nd that they were successful in forming a league, but the Bundaberg JVI"il had a paragraph the next morn­ing to the effect that the Premier expressed a wish that the proceedings should not be re­ported; at the same time it had a leading article on the meeting and pr.tctically gave the whole show away. I know the hon. gentle­man is very anxious to capture the Bundaberg seat, and suppose that w.1s the reason why he came along. I have expressed some curiosity to know who is the real majority of the Govern­ment-whether it is the hon. member for ·wool­loongabba or the hon. member for 1<'itzroy or the hon. member for Toowoomba or the hon. member for Toowong. I have nn doubt that the majority lies in one of them, and-seeing that they have a! ways considered themselves as good

Mr. Barber.]

536 Address in Repl,y. [ASSEMBLY.] Add1·ess in Reply.

as Labour men-supporters of the Labour party or of the democratic party-I am inclined to think that when tht'''e gentlemen next ap]Jf'>'tl to the electors there is a lively time in store for them. \Ve had an evidence of that at a meeting held in South BriRbane, which was nttended by the hon. member for \V oolloongabba, to the surprise of a good many of the r lectors of that district. As a resident I may say that we were wondering why the hon. gentleman did not hold a meeting at \Voolioongabba and address us there. 'Whether it is thac he fenrs the tre­mendous indignation or the righteous indigna­tion of the populace there when he comes along I do not know. No doubt we shall hear from

the hon. gentleman by and by. In [8 p.m.] the section of the electorate where

I an1 living, the hon. gentleman is likely to have a very lively tJme. After pro­miRing at the bst election that he would not support a coalition between the present Premier and the senior member for Townsville, the elec­tors are very anxious to clee~l with that hon. gentleman for going back on his pledges.

Mr. AIREY : You are one of his con"tituents?

Mr. BARBER: I live in that electorate; but I am on the Bundaberg roll. If I were an elector of Woolloongabba I should certainly vote against the hon. member.

Mr. D. HUNTER: No, never. (Laughter.)

Mr. BARBER : That was exactly the expres­sion which the hon. gentleman used when he was asked if h0 would support a coalition between the present Premier and Mr. Philp. The hon. gentleman at South Brisbane endeavoured to wriggle out of the very difficult position in which he found himself, but he will have a more diffi­cult ta"k in wriggling cut of the position in which he finds himself "t the next general election. I supr,ose that we shall hear from the hon. gentle­man again. There may be storms of indigna­tion, there may he clouds of indignation, 'tnd there may be strong opposition to the hon. gentleman, but he has been telling the people of vVoolloongabba that he will come again; that he will meet all comers, and that he will get in again.

GOVERNMENT ME~fBERS : Hear, hear! So he will.

Mr. BARBER: The brilliant-hued corusca­tions which we will see scintillating frolll the extremity of the hon. gentleman's proboscis on that occasion, will be a perfect centre of radio activity, even if there are tornadoes of opposition on that occasion. (Laughter.) Having gone back on the pledges which he gave at the last election, he will have to bear the oppositi<,n that will be meted out to him. I have a few more remarks to make before resuming my seat. During the debate on the no-confidence motion­and the same, no doubt, will occur during the de­b:<teon theAddressinReply-we have had Labour members pointing out t,hat the principles and planks contained in the Labour party's platform would benefit not only a certain section of the community but the 'State at large. \Ve con­tend that if the l::tnd tax contained in our platform, with a £300 exemption, were only passed into legislation, it would be tbe means of opening up large areas of land, and, not only would the agricnltural settlers, now coming in as immigrants, be able to settle on that land, hut it would give wider OJJportunities for the people who are coming here from the Southern State"' as well. It would also enable a, sufficient amount of land to be opened np for our own people w bo am anxious to acquire selections for themselves. The hon. member for Warwick, in speaking the other afternoon, pointed out that under the principles of the Labour party every-

[Mr. Barber.

thing would be levelled down, and that the policy of the Labour party was a levelling-down policy -that the socialistic ideas enunciated by the Labour party meant that we wished to reduce everyone to the same level. 'rhe hon. gentleman only sees the little narrow circle in which he moves. He ha" one particular class to lFgislate ar,d cate,r for. The hon. gentleman has lived for yc:>rs in his own little world, and he knows abso­lutely nothing of what is going on in the big world outside. Following up his profession as a storekeeper for year>, it has somewhat warped his mind on uther matters. I will inform that hon. gentleman that world wide to-day socialism is spreading triumphantly, and ,;ny little puny remark which is put forward by the hon. gentleman when he talks of the levelling­down process and reducing everyone to the one level would have little or no effect. I am re­minded that the hon. member for \Varwick, at the last electic,n, talked in the strongest terms against the present Premier, and looked upon him as a Kidston socialist.

1\Ir. KERR Did he?

Mr. BARBER: Of course he did. He talked about him as " man who was about to ruin Queensland. \Vhen the prtlsent Premier returned front that memorable visit to the old country and got, down as far as \Varwick, there wa~ no one in this State I have read of so far who delivered a more laudatory kind of speech-a more smoodg­ing kind of speech--

The SPEAKER : Order, order !

Mr. BARBER: Than was delivered by the hon. member for \Varwick on that occasion. And the Premier told them how he would cook the kettle of fish when he got back. He has found it a very hard matter to cook that kettle of fish. (Laughter.)

Mr. BDW}IAN : The kettle is very near dry.

.Mr. BARBER: I remember at one time I tried to cook a crab. I put the crab in a billy of cold water, and put the billy on the fire. To my surprise the crab crawled out of lhe billy and made off. (Laughter.) The kettle of fish the Premier referred to had some strong live democrats who would not stand the cooking pro­cess to which he submitted them, but crawled out. (Laughter.)

Mr. HAMU/l'ON: Democratic crabs. (Laughter.)

Mr. BARBER : While there is life there is hope, but where there is no life there is no hope­politically speaking, at any rate. The hon. member for \Varwick made a, great laudatory speech about the Premier, and the Premier spread himself on that occasiOn, no doubt m gre.1t style. He told them that when he got to Brisbane he, was going to do the ri~ht thiJOlg· Of cot~rse he was goin~ to do the r1ght thm!!. It d1d not matter what the Premier did, it was bound to be right. If he called in the Labou~ party, it was bound to be right. If he called m the old Con­servative party to help him, it was bound to be right ""long as he was on the top. That was ~he only 'thing that meat:t "right" to. him .. \VIth all his talk about th1s party wastmg time and blocking the business of the country--

Mr. GRA:\1' : Hear, hear!

Mr. BARBER: With all his talk about t.he­obstructive tactics of this side, I would ask him what about the long-winded speeches fro~ that side of the Chamber? After those long--wmded speeches, we were quite justified in putting our side of the casA before the electors as well. (Hear, hear!) The speeche~ of h?n. gentlemen opposite were s1rnply electwneermg speeches, and we bacf' to put our side of the case as well ..

Address in Reply. [3 AUGUST.] ..tlddress in Reply. 537

.The speech delivered by the Premier in reply to the leader of the Oppo,itiou was exactly the kind of speech we should expect him to make at Rockhampton in placing a political mauifesto before the country. That and other speeches which have since been delivered by the Premier were made in order to create a fog in the public mind, to concentrate the attention of the people on the Trades Hall and the Labour party and the Independent Opposition, and thm:, draw away attention froru himself. The hon. gentleman has endeavonrnl to make the people forget that at the last election he had a distinct mandate from the country tn carry out certain me:1sures and to work with the Labour party. Even his own organ, the Rockhampton Bulletin stated the day after the election that one thing was qmte clear, and that was that, whatever differences there might be between the Kids ton and Labour parties, the mandate of the country was that those two parties should forget their differences •nd wnrk together in harmony. Has the hon. gentleman done that? \V by, there is not another man in either of those parties who would have done what he has done, and made it possi­ble for the old Conservative party once again to take charg-e of the Treasury bench. If a dis­solution takes place and we have· to go to the country-and I would prefer to fight out this matter outside-(hear, hettr !)-the hon. g-entle­man and his supporters will find out that the fog they have created will lift, and lift verv suddenly. I remember as a boy beingon board a small schooner on the coast of Newfoundland in a fog. It is said that you can lean against a fog in Newfoundland. \V e were sitting on the rail, leaning against the fog, and, when the fog lifted, we fell in. So the hon. gentleman will find-that no rnalter how thick may be the fog he has created-when he gets outside the unholy atmosphere of the metropolis, the fol( is not quite so dense a' he imaginP~, and I am not sure that it is very dense in the metropolis_ When the fug lifts he will fall in, and fall in pretty suddeu]y_ I will conclude my speech by reading a paragraph which I came acro>s to-day, entitled "A Vision of the :Future," a3 it re]Jre­sents very clearly the ideal and vision of the Labour party. \V e believe that it is possible, through a long evolutionary stage probably, for mankind to reach the irlp·1l ponrtrayed in that visicn by means of the principl~s of thP Labour party. The writer >ays-

I see a world where thrones buve crumbled and where kings are dust. 'l'he aristocracy of idlenP•>s has perished from the eart.h. I see a wOrld without a slave. ~Ian at last is free. Xature's forces have by science been enslaved. Lightniug and light, wind and wa"\'e, frost and flame, and all the secret, subtle powers of earth and air are the tireless toiler~ of the human race. I see a world at peace, adornp;d with every form of 3rt, with music's myrht(i voices thrilled, while lips are rich with words of love and truth-:t world iu whieh no exile sighs, no prisoner mournR; a world on which the gibbet's shadow does not fall; a world where labour reaps its full reward; where work and worth go hand in hand; where the -poor g-irl trying to ·win bread with the needle-the needle that has been called "the nsp for the brtRst of the poor"-i~ not driven to desperate choice of crime or death, of suicide or shame. I see a world without the beggar's outstretched palm. the miser's heartless, stony stare, the piteous wail of want, the vivid livs of l1e~. the c1 uel eYes of scorn. I ~ee a race without disease of flesh 01: brain-shapely and fair, the married harmony of form and function--and, as I look, lire lengthens, joy deepens, love canopiesi the earth; and over all, in the great dome, shines the eternal star of human hope.-R. G. Ingersoll.

That practically embodies the ideal of the labour movement. We believe that if the Labour JJlat­form, with its socialistic ideas, is jJlaced in a concrete form on the statute-book, the ideal I have spoken of will be reached by humanity. (Hear, hear!)

Mr. HAMILTON (Gregory): Being one of those members who were crowded out and had not an opportunity of speaking on the motion of want of confirlence, I do not intend to allow the Addres'' in Reply to go through without >nying a few wqrds. 'Though the AddreH in Reply has been debated at some length, still there are sowe points which have noo been touched upon by previous speakers. Anyhow, I think it is the duty of every member to say something- in this debate, and declare what position he occupies. Before dealing with some of the measures con­tained in the GoYernor's Speech, I may say that I believe the words which the senior member for Townsville uttered with regard to the Rock­hampton programmA before the coalition took place were prophetic. The hon. gentleman said that manifesto was nothing but a sham and a fraud, and that is my opinion about it. I have Yery little hope of any of the democratic measures promised by the Premier being carried by the party at present in power. \Ve have beard a great deal about the 'Trade Disputes Bill being included among the measures men­tioned in the Governor's Speech. I remember that immediately after the coalition took place an opening speech was delivered in which we were promised a Trade Disputes Bill, and there wa' a row in the Government camp straight away. It "as stated that there was a hurried caucus held, at which it was resolved that tpe Trade Disputes Bill should not be pressed, or that it should be introduced in such a form as would be acceptable to members who objected to such a measure.

Mr. \VHITE: \Ve had no caucus.

Mr. HAMILTON: The members of the Philp party attended a caucus.

J\Ir. WHITE: No; not all of them.

Mr. HAMILTON: At any rate, we know that the seconder of the motion for the adoption of the Address in Reply said he would have nothing to do with it. 1\ow we have a Trade Disputes Bill again put dnwn in the Governor's Speech, and members opposite Hay t.hey are pre­pared to accept it. One of the chief re:cF,ons why they are so willing to accept it, and why we should look upon it with distrust, is to be found in wme rema1 k; which the Premier m" de at l!Jngelsburg. \V e know very well that all the trades unions in Queensland ask is to have a Bill brought in on the same lines as the English Act. 'rhe Premier pr<>miserl a Bill on those lines ; in fact, he gave several deputations to understand that he was very much in favonr of a Trade Disputes Bill, and that he would introduce a Bill on the lines of the English Act. Now, last year when a deputation waitPd on him he said that he would illtroduce an ~"-et this year on the same line~, hut I fail to notice any reference to it in the Governor's Speech, and the other night, spea.king at :Engelsburg on this matter, he said-

J.fr. Jenkin.:;.on, though pledged to the general policy of the joint part1c:::., was now co-operating with the men whose one purpose was to get a Trade Dispute.s Bill, and one that would be much stronger than what the Gov­ernment proposed. How .\1r. Jenkinson could gain his point by putting the Government out and the Labour party in, he would leave to :Mr. Jenkinson himself to explain. 1\ ow, Mr. J enkinson has explained to his people, and they are pretty well satisfied with his ex­planation. Bat it just shows that the Premier does not intend to bring in a Trade Disputes Bill on the lines of the English Act, becJtuse he says rt is not going to be an Act on the lines osked for by Mr. Bowman, or one that :Mr. Bow­man would intruduce if he bad the power of doing so. So I S>1Y, so far as the Trade Disputes Bill is concerned, it is nothing elRe but a sham and a fraud. I notice that the members of the·

Mr. Hamilton.]

,538 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

Ministry are going about the country--in fact, I think it is unprecedented in the hi;tory of any -country when there is a motion of want of confi­dence before the House-mern hers of the Ministry are going to different electotate;, holding meet· ings there with the evident intention of getting the elect<•n to intimidate their members to .up­port the Govemment. I think such a thing as that is unprecedented. It would have been much better if the Government bad done as the Labour party ha.; done. \Vhile that motion of want of confidence was before the How;e, mem­bert< of the Labour party die! not go before the electors, whatever we intend to do afterwards. The members of the Ministry, with the aid of the provincial Pre<il, and by pamphlets distri­buted throughout Queensland, have been trying to misrepresent memLers sitting on this side of the Houoe in the eves of the electors outside. I am very happy to say that, as far as I can learn, their misrepresentations have had very little effect, and the metropolitan Press has had very little effect either. The Premier says be wants to carry out the Rock ham pton manifesto, and the Labour party won't all,,w him. The Lab<>ur party never prevented him from carrying out the Hockhampton manifesto, and when that manifesto was put before the country he knnws very well it contained a great nnmber of mea­sures for which he could depend n!Jon support from the Labour party to carry through.

:Mr. Bow:.rAX: He robbed the L~bour plat­form.

Mr. HAMILTO:'-T: Yes. He says the Labour party are blocking legi,lation, simply because the Lahonr party won't sit down an;t hold their tongue, and allow him to bring in his llleasures, or to pa~~ this Governor's Sl:..ePch through the House v.ithout ar,y comment what­ever. I think if the Prernier lva,'\ very anxiouB to get tl::.rough a lengthy progrannne of useful leg-islation he could have met the House earlier. \Ve know very well there wa" no work done last year, and we were promised that the House would meet in :May. \Vhen I was out on the Georgina this year i: saw it waR stated that the House would meet alJout the 16th May. That nece~Ritated rne curtailing- rny joluney; I hurried hack, and when I got back to Brisbane I found there was no intention of meeting the House. The position of the parties was such that the Government did not know where thev were, and they put off meeting the House week after week until, as you know yourself, Sir, it was only some few week" ago that the House was called together. I say if the Premier was honest and earnest in wanting to get through useful legis­lation, he would lmvc called the House together earlier. However, ;,imply because he did not do so, that is no reason "· hy'members of this House should curtail their remarks on the administra­tion or policy of the Government. At any rate I do not intend to do so, and I do not think an~ other hon. member intends to do so. It is quite evident to my mind that the Premier, ever since he got to Cabinet rank-I was one of the many who gave him credit for far more honesty of pur­pose than what I think, at the present time, he deserves. And I can say this plainly: that the Premier has made up his mind that he was going to forge ahead, and that all his profes"ions about h>tving the interests of Queensland at heart-I think he has the interests of himself at heart much more than he has the interests of the country. \Ve know that when his own self­interest was concerned, although he made out it was in the intere,ts of thA country, he never studied either friend or foe. Metaphorically speaking, ever since that hon. gentleman has obtained Cabinet rank, his political path has ·been strewn with the bones of political

[Mr. Hamileot&.

friends. \Vhen we look round this House, and think of the members who stuck to the Premier through thick and thin, and who lost their seats through sticking to him, and see other members who jeopardised their political exist­ence in sticking to the Premier-What does he trouble about them? He has dropped them overboard as soon as ever it suited him, as he will drop everybody else overboard when it suits his purpose. It suits the hon. gentleman at the present time to have the assistance of the Philp pafty to keep him in power, and if it suited him to-morrow to drop them and crush them out of existence, as he has clone others, he would do so. That is my opinion of the Premier. All his efforts to wipe out the Labour p:trty, or to injure the Labon party, have proved futile. \Ve know there was a time when he did create a lot of dis­sension in the ranke, bnt I am prepared to say the Labour party are stwnger than ever, not only in this House, but outside. I know that during the whole ten years I have been a mem­ber of this House and a membH of the party, I do not think there has been greater unanimity amongst the merpbers of the party ttwn there is at the present time. I say all those efforts to cre&te dissension in the Labour party have proved futile. \Ve ue told that we are going to get the Rockham pton nmnifesto. I think there was a good deal in what the Telegraph newspaper said: "\V hen you look over the Government programme ancl you look over the personnel of the Government, you c,m see the hand r,f the hon. mPmber for Town."ille all through it." I give the hon. member for Townsville a good deal of credit fur strategy. I said laA year he had accJmplished by stmtegv what he had failed to accomplish by storm. When he found when he went to the country last election that he could not come back with a majority-in fact, hi< party numbered very little more than one-third of the members of the House--be set himself to get back on the Treasury bt'nches by s·rat<-gy. I am not going to say l am pleased to see he has accomplished that. However, I can say he has accomplished it, because I thmk myself, with many others outside, that the preRent Premier is only the nominal Premier-that the real Pre­mier is the hon. member for Tuwnsville. \Vhen we look at the personnel of the present Ministry and their supporters, how can mybody expect democratic legislation from them ? Looking over the other side of the House, I can see members there who have opposed demo· cratic legislation ever since I have been a member of this House, and will go on opposing it; and I am quite certain, with the mixture of parties there is over there at the present time­because there is no united party-there are two parties although they call the Government one party-we kn )W very well that the chance the country has of getting democratic legislation from them is a very remote one indeed. U n­doubtedly, at the htst election the Kidstonites went to the country or were expected by the country to work with the Labour party. \Ve know very well the whole cry at the last elec· tion was "Down with the Pbilp party." \Ve were fighting the great Constitution question of home rule, '' Hon1e rule fur Queensland," and the Philp party had to be downed at all hazards. We know very well that hnn, members on the other side of the House hold their seat< to-day by the contingent vote given to them by the Labour party. Some of them are men enough to acknow· ledge it, but others are not so wiilin~ to admit it. The Premier says the Labour party opposed all reform. I would like to know what retorms he can point out that the Labour party ever opposed. I would like him also to point out what reforms many of the members sitting aiongside him have helped to bring about. The Premier has said

Address in Reply. [3 A!JGUST,] Address in Reply. 539

"Look at the good reforms this GoYernment has brought in." 1 say they have not passed one reform measure. This Government has only

been in power since the coalition; [8.30 p.m.] the majority of them are gentlemen

who, when all these reform' were passed, were sitting in opposition and opposing them. The Premier mys, "Did not we bring in electoral reform?" I say he did not. bring in electoral reform. I say the present Premier of Queensland was not in favour of adult suffrage. He ad vucated one-man-one-vote, but not adult suffrage. When the Morgan coalition was formed it was pr.,mised that he would give us electoral reform and aclnlt suffrage. That was fiOG while JYir. Murgan was Premier, and nut while Mr. Kic!ston was Premier. He talk< about old-age pension"; but we know very well that if the old people of the State Me indebted to any party for olcl-age penRions they are indebted to the Labour party. (Hear, bear!) It was only by the contioued adnJcacy of the Labour party that the question was brought t•> the front. Look back a session or two ago and sre the mPasure introduced by the present Treasurer when he was Hume Secretary. It was a measure of which any Government ought to be ''"hamed. Even if it harl been brought in by the old Gmservative Philp Government, it would not have gone through; and it was only by the Labour party opposing it that the Government bad to bring in an up-to-elate Oid-age Pemions Bill. They hac! to bring it in because we were keeping them in power. \Ve were not goinfi to keep them in power unless we got RDlnething in return, and we got those n1easures in return for our support, so we were under no obligation to the Premier, ot· anybody else, so far as old-age pensions are concerned. He said he gave the hon. member for Gregory certain credit for introducing the Shearf,rS and Sugar \Vorkers' Accommodation Act. That Government never brought that measure in. For two or three sessions, when I introduced it as a private mem­ber, it was opposed by members now sitting on the other side. The men now as>ociated with the Premier, on whom he is trusting to carry democratic legislation, were the men who opposed these reforn• rne.tsures. \Ve did not f{et this mea­sure frmu the present Premier. It was after a big ,deputation waited on lYir. ::'vlorgan, when he was Premier, and asked him to introduce it. He said, " If, after making i1 quiries, I find that such a measure is necessary, I will introduce it as a Government measure and pass it through." I suppose he got information that satisfied him, bec1nse it was while he was Premier that the then Home Secretary, Mr. Airey, introduced the Bill and put it thronf{h. It was Mr. Morgan who promised it and gave it to us; a.ncl I rloubt very muc:, whether we would have got. it if the present Premier bad been Premier at that time. As far as the \Vorkers' Compensation Act is concerned, is it not well known that members of the Labour party have aclvocatccl that for years 7 It was introduced by Mr. Fisher, now a member of the Federal House, and defeated. After he was transferred to the ]'ecleral arena, his c,llleague, Mr. Rylancl, took it up in this House, and it was defeated again. Then Sir Arthur Rutledge introdnced it, and it was passed into law. \Ve are not illdebted to Mr. Kiclston fur anything of that sort; and though he says the Labour party are ungrateful clogs, and that we want to down him, who has given all these reforms, I say that we have f{ot none of these reforms from him. I doubt whether we would have got an~·thing from him, only he wanted the support of the Labour party to keep him in power; and he would have given any party anything they asked for that purpose. He talks about the programme he has put forward

to further the interests of Queensland by means of railways, immigration, ancllancl settlement. 'With regard to his rail way policy, which he says is opposed by the Labour party, I ask him to name one State railway which has been opposed by the Labnur party for the last two or three sessions. There is not one, thongh I think there were some introduced that we would ha1'e been ju8tifiecl in opposing. But when we have the Guarantee Act, and the people concerned were willing to give a guarantee, I did not care about opposing them. I defy him to point out one State railway that has been opposfld by the Labour party. The only lines oppo;;d by the party were those introJnced as <yndicatP. rail­ways or priva' e railways-which we opposed all we kn~w-ancl it is not fair to say tl'"t members of the Labour party are opposed to railways intended to open up the countrv. T<> l1sten to the Premier, and rc"cl the columns of the daily Press, one would think the Premier was di dnely inspired ; that he was the only man who c <'1lcl carry out the grPat policy of progres,, and that if he were out of the rortd, there would be no­thing but chaos. I say that if the Premier were dropped into the middle of the river to· morrow there would be men capable of c trry· ing on as successfully as he has done for the last year or two. The success that has at­tended hio efforts for the last few years has been owing to the support of the Labour party and to the good seasons sent by Providence; and, as for the Labour party opposing progressive mea­sures, I say that the Labour, party ha"e never clone so. \Ve know thett previous to the Premier going to England onP- of the reasons fur curtailing the ses:;ion by putting on the ''gag" and the "guillotine" was, that he was anxious to attend the Premiers' Conference in JYielbourne. The session was ended abruptly, and the Premier scooted off to the conference in J\[elbourne. But he did not stop there. He remained there a few hours, and the next thing we heard was that he was on his way to the exhibition in London. \Ve know that before he left for England he was banqueted not only in Brisbane but in the South. He was presented with silver plate and other things-travelling bag><-by people who, previous tu his political somersault, would not touch him with a 40-foot pole.

An HoNOURABLE MEMJlER : They g,we him the pieces of si! ver.

::\fr. HA:\fiLTON: He was banqueted by the Fairbairns, the Knoxes, aucl the Darcys, and the capitalist" in J\Ielbourne. 'rhere was a nice thinfi for a democrat! All the representatives of financial institutions gave him a great banquet previou:;; to his going away to L~mdon, and it should be sufficient for anyone to know that the Premier could not associate with thuse people if he was a democrat. 'l'he>e people would not associate with hirn without doing it for tbe pur­pose of winning him over to their own way of thinking. He was no sooner returned from the old country than he said he was going to fight the Federal Labour partv. I think tbat the State Labour party will give him all the fight he wants if it is fight he is looking for. So far as the Federal Labour party is con­cernerl, I think, from reading the debates in the Federal Parliament, it will take the Premier or anybody else ail their time to hold their own with their present Federal :Ministry. You would think it was only the E'ecleral Labour party who wanted to take a larf{er share than the one-fourth of the Customs revenue, but the Premier will find that he has got others to deal with; in fact, I am sore they will not be content with one-fonrth, but "ill want two-fourths of the Customs revenue returned to the Federal Government. He sairl he was going

Mr. Hamilton.]

540 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] .tl.dd1·ess in Reply.

to fight the Federal Labour party, but the State Labour party will give him all the fight he is looking tor ; and, when the :Federal elections come along, he will find that the Federal Labour party are just as ready to fight him as he is to fight them. For a good many years-at any rate, since I have taken an interest in politics -I hase never seen such a degradinf( posi­tion as there is in the Queensland Parlia­ment at the present time. Here we have the Premir'r, who is supposed to be a strong man, and, according to the metrop<>litan Press and some of the other Pres' in the eountry, the strongest man in Australia; but what do we find? Even taking the words of his c Jlleague, thP jnni<~r member for Hockhampton, he is hanging on '' hy the skin of his teeth." He is hanging on to office by one vote. I do not know if there is onB man in the States of the Common­wealth who would remain in otfice by the :tid of one vote, as the Premier is doing.

Mr. WHrrE: What about South Australia?

Mr. HAMILTON: The vote on the no-con­fidence motion in South Australia has not been taken yet, although we are told that the Govern­ment there have only a majority of one. But the Premier here has a majority of one vote, and he says that he is going to carry on. I fail to see how he i-; g·,ing to carry on. It is not by playing to the dres" circle, as he c:tlls it, that he is going to carry on. "I,Ve know he was glad to play to the "gods" at one time. The "gods," as he calls them, or rather the working classes of Queensland, were the people the Premier once played to, and they are the people who put him into Parliament and marle him what he is to-day. It was only by their help that he got into Parliament at all. \Ve know that the people who flock round him now, land him to the skies, and call him a wise statesman and all that kind of thing, were the very people who, before this coalition, fought him for years and years-they fought him tooth and nail at every election that came off. They could see nothing good in him then, but as soon as he somersaulted, broke his pledges, and entered into a coalition with Mr. Philp, then he was everything good that they could think of. The Premier made an attack on the members of the Labour party. \Ve do not mind what the old Philp membe"' say about us. \Ve always know where to find them. \Ve know where to tind them in the House, as t.hey have always been oppos~d to us. and we know where to place them. Bnt no (!IJB knows more about the aims and ol•jfC'>~ of the Labour party than the present Premier ,f Queensland. He was one of the dele­gates who attended the first conference, and he was one of the rlelegatH who drew up the first Labour platform, and the plat.form which he drew up was rnactieally the same platform which both the Premier and the Secretary for .Mines afterwards signed.

The SECRE'rANY FOR MINES: And it was also signed by the hon. member for South Brisbane and th<' hon. member for Barcoo.

Mr. HAMILTON: I am not dealing with the members for 8outh Brisbane or Barcoo. The hon. gentlemnn who interjected knows very well that the aims and objects of the Labour party are the s~me to-day as they were when he signed the platform.

The SECRETARY l<'OR l>frNES : They are quite different.

Mr. HAMILTON: There is no difference whateYer. We have been told that this party has to ask some other oersons in the State be­fore we can do anything. The Labour party is in exactly the same position, with regard to its

[Mr. Hamilton.

methods, as it was when the Premier and the hon. member for Kennedy were members of that party.

LABOUR MEliiBERS : Hear, hear !

Mr. HAMILTON: And it comesveryillfrom the Premier to stand up and deliberately mis­represent the aims <~nd objects of the Labour party. He does that simply because it suits him, but it did not suit him to do that at one time, as it was because of the help of the Labour party that be stands where he is to-clay. It was by the help of the Labonr party that he got there, and I hope it will be by the help of the Labour party that we will put him where he ought to be. (Hear, hear!) Now, there has been a great deal made about the land tax, and I want to have a few words on this qnestion. There was a speech made on this subject in this House by the hon. member for Glermont., and there were some very extravagant statements made by that hon. gentleman, which every mem­ber of this party disclaims.

LABOUR lYIEMHERS: Hear, hear !

Mr. HAMILTON: The hon. member for Clermont, when he spoke on that occasion, spoke for himRelf, and not on behalf of this party whatsoever. So far as the Labour party is con­cerned, we have always had ~ land tax in our platform· it has always been m the programme of our pa;ty. \Vhen the Premier and the hon. member for Kennedy were members of the· Labour party, there was a land tax proposal in the platform at that time.

The SECRETARY J<'OR MINES : I do not dispnte that at all.

Mr. HAMILTON: The Premier has not dis­puteil it, but he is going round the country say­ing that the Labour party would tax the people· out of their land. Speaking at Engelsburg, he made a lot out of the speech of the hon. member for Clermont. He wanted to make out that Mr. Lesin>t was speaking on behalf of this party, and stated that the uth>rances of 1\.lr. Lesina at that time werA the views held by the m~mbers of this party. 'fhe question. a; to how much the la'!d tax is to be, whether 1t IS to be ld., ls., or £1 m the £1, has never been debated by this party at all. This party advocated a land tax as the only means of breaking up the big estates. (Hear, hear !) "\Ve do not want to tax people off the land, bnt to tnx them on tu the land. I noticed in some of the 8onthern Pr<'3s-some of the j\/Ielbourne papers which I was reading th:' oi~er d>:y--thao they are going in for a land tax m Vwtona. There ar8 a number of large estates there ; there 1s

no opening for the young people to go in for Ia.nd and they have to euligrate and clear out of Victoria altogether, and the Victorian Govern­ment are gomg in for a land tax. (Hear, hear !) So far as the land tax advocated by the Labour party is concerned, we advocate a tax on unim­proved land values. (Hear, hear!) \Ve no not advocate a tax on improved values at all. \Vhen we were in the Moreton electorate-the hon. member for Mitchell and the hon. member for \Varrego were with me-we were pointed out a property of 2,000 acres belonging to an old man. It was beautiful virgin scrub land, and was acquired years ago before the railways· were built into that dietrict, or before the Gympie line was built. There ":ere 100 farmers in that district who wanted th1s land for the1r sons and they offered this old gentleman £1(} an ;ere for the land if he would cut it up into lOO-acre blocks, but he refused.

Mr. WooDS: What did he give for it?

Mr. HAMILTON: I was told he ~ave 2s. 6d~ an acre for it. The reason that land IS valued at £10 an acre to-day is not because of any effort on

Address in Repl.1J. [:3 AlCGUST.] Address in Reply. 541

the part of that old gentleman, but because of the expenditure of public money there, such as the building of the Gym pie Railway. The ex pen· cliture of public money has settled the people on the land there; that has created an enhanced value on that land; but the State h~s got none of that enhanced value at all. The State is enti. tied to some of it, as it is creat,,d by the expendi­ture of public money, and I think the State has a right to it.

Mr. GRAYSON: Could we not acquire it under the Closer Settlement Act?

Mr. H,'l_l'vHLTON: \Ve are acquiring a lot of -estate,; under the Closer Settlement Act. \Vhat is the outcome of it? \Vith the high prices the people ha Ye to pay to go on to it, many of them have no chance of getting out of debt for many years. The tax >tdvocated by the Labour party is a. tax on the unhn]-1roved value~, with the intention of burstinc: up thP hig estates and making the land :wailable for the people who w.ant it. \Ve know very well--and you know, S1r, on account of having had to administer the Lands Department--that notwithstanding the fact that we have a\wut 400,000,000 acres in Queensland, it i8 a uifl'cult thing to g-et a piece of land to put " person on to within anything like re,tsonablc distance of a rail­way. The hest land in close proximity to the railwaye, or mnrkets ha;; pretcy w,•Jl been hken up. From here to R :m:•. the railway goes through pri,·ately owned land': which are only shec•p \Valks at the preRPnt tirne, a,nd which could he c•:nverted into farms to Kettle prop le on. Yl-:>t tllPy Rre held as big P:.:tates, :1,nd railwa\;; which ;•re built 01it of ; he fund" of the countr·y go t.hrow;h then1. Thftt i.') one of the t.hiug-3 the Labnur P<-lrty HO vacate a land tax for. I want to saY that if the Stat~ doh not pnt nn a land tax very ohortly, the friends nf the hrm. gentlt<Int'D npposit!:' in the I1~ederal I=>arliarnent are very likely to do it for thern. I was reading a speec't the other da:; b)' thP Hon. G. H. R·:id. l:fe is nnt the leader in the FL'dPral Parliament to-day, bnt one of hi-; di~eip1P-·., :\1r. Cook, is in the Ferleral :\Iinistrv. 1\Ir. Reid was speaking abont bnilrliug a milwAy, and taking over the Northern TerriLl)ry. He Raid-

It it'l right, I think, to iutrud·c fo1· a moment on what may be cJnsidered within the domain ot State politics. Hon. members opposite have in their platrorm a very strong plank-

He was refe1 ring to the Fed em! Labonr party~ which may be brought into servi<'c 1n a reYcnne-pro­duei.ng- ~hape, but the aV•)Wed inteut of whiell is to ~·any out the work of breaking up the b~g e_,;tates of Am;tralia..

So it is quit:' evident that Mr. Ruid under­stands the reason the Labour party in Australia have in getting this land tax-

I do not think the Commonwealth has the con­stitutional po·wer to do this; but, although a mem­ber of the Federal Parliament, I feel I am entitled to say, in the most public way, that those large 1an.ded estates must either be taxed out of existence or re~umed out of existenre.

Xow, it is not a member of the Labour party who m saying tbis-

"\Vithout any reflection on the owners, many of whom have done a great deal to build up the indubtrial progress of Australia, I consider that the time has come when these estates must be trans­formed into holdings suitable for the purposes of single families. I do not fayour the taxing process, and I shall give one or two reasons why. In the first place, as coming from us, for what is really the supreme purpose, I think the taxation is be­yond our powers.

Mr. JosEPH CooK.-! take it the right honour­able gentleman is referring to large estates near centres of population?

Mr. REID.-1 do not pretend to enter into any details, and I am merely using general terms.

1\fr. HuTCHISON.-Did the right honourable mem­ber not say some. time ago that we had the power?

Mr. REID.-\Ye have the power of taxation-! do not question that for a moment. \-Ve have the power of direct taxation, which includeb the taxing of land just as much as it does the taxing of incomes. The only point I ma.ke is that the break­ing up of large estates is a matter for the political evolution of the States themselves-that it is not a fiscal question, but a land question, and should be taken up by the State'',, But I would say that those in the States who do not take up this question in a serious light do not ckscrve for a moment to hold the pov\rer. M:t objection to the exercise of the taxing pmver is, first, that, for the object of bn:c1king up Cl:.tates, it is beyond our provint c, andil sE.~'ondly, that it i,'< altogether too slow and unsatisfactory a process. The next question is that of the policy of resumption; and I entirely believe in that policy. But I have no hesitation in saying that, as it is being now curried out, it is a -,;\·eak and foolish policy.

\Ve know that although we have a policy in Queensland of repnrc~asing est tte<, it is a very slow process altogHther.

LABOUH JY1E}1BERS : Hear, bear !

Mr. HA!\III/l'ON : And what is more, it is a very expensive: procesi:\ for tho:-:;e who want the land--

In the first place, it is altogether too slo'v; in the second place, it will a11oW the evil to grow again; and, in the third place, it sets up the valuu of lands which have not b0en rrsumed, as against the .:-:tate itself.

JJr. Ht:GHF '.-\'/hen will the right honourable mcmbt~r join us?

Mr. TIEID.-I desire to shmv mv honourable frtcnds opposite that mv methods Ure ab~:>olutely diverse from theirs. I 3.m at one with them ill recognising the cnwity of the evil, [!.Ud in recog­:!lising that it is a curse whif•h should fy removed from the national prospects of Australia. I wish to say ~hat my propo·<tl, if I had the opportunity to sulJn!it mu•, ,,·ould follow roug-hly tlH'SC lines: Jn ihe 1i1. t.:: ~ ':tcL, the policy of resumin;... one estate al'tC'r ::1notlu;r is sing·ularly wenk and inconclusive, for the reasons I have mentioned. .1fost of thc,e 1 states hav,• boPn built up against the policy of the la\Y-n_wny of them have become large estates by a mnniJnth tion of the dcclarf'l1 land policy of the_ ~ountry. It is easy for me; not boing in ~,·tate pol:tJCs, to sa::--· thr'3c things, but I take the full rf .ponsibility for my utterances. I should ] ikc to see an .Act passed in the ~tatcs declaring the ex~ istr:nce of these large estates to be cnrltrary to puhlic pulic;,r--declaring- that every one o~· them "\\ill he gradually resumed, and that if the mvncrs ·will not voluntarily snbclivHle, so as to unlock those estah 3 for the benctit of Australians, and of people coming to this country, the Ntates will themselves unlod( the lands. I desire to 1L:lVC to the O>>nsr the alternative of dealing with the lhnds in their mvn way.

J\Ir. Hr-GHEs.-\Vhere is the right honourable gentlemam.'s red flag?

}Ir. HEID.--Whcn an honourable member has strone: views as to a state of things \Yhich is not good for the country, I think it is his duty to make no secret of thosP views.

Then Mr. R··icl further said-"\Vhat has been the main animating feature of

land owning and the aggregation of large estates? .. A.t the heart of that aggregation is the magnificent opportunity that it offers to reap wealth out of the national energies and the national development. I think that in un,· Bill such as that I have men­tioned there shouid be a clause providing that tl~o value of the land to be graJ.ually resumed shall. 1n no case exceed the value at the time of the passing of the Act. That would take the heart out of the practice of holding on to the la,nd, and for the future, at all events, we should have none of the increment derived from the employment of the energies and wealth of the State goin,g into the hands of those who possess that which 1s the main factor of all human wealth and national prosperity.

LABOUR ME~!BERS : Hear, heer!

Mr. Hamilton.]

54:,J Address in ReplJ;. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

Mr. HAMILTON: Those are the utterances of Mr. George Reid, who has always been re­garded as one of the leading statesmen iu Aus­tralia. Mr. Reid was one of those who, I think were responsible at thA time he was Premier fo;· introducing a land tax in New South "\Vales, and endeavouring to burRt up the big estates, but they went in for a policy of resumption. vVe know very well from tl e effect of the policy we Me pursuing in Queen-l,mrl to-day-the policy of resunnog under the ~\gncultural Lands Purchase Act-that it is" slow, tedious, and very expensive policy. I say that to keep what I would call the economic rent, or the unearned incrernent, the method of a land tax is a good way of getting it. I think when we ha,·elarge estates bordering on our railways-especially on the Darling Downs ahd !!'any other parts-and we have landless peo!Jle, It is the duty of "hatever Government is in power to have those estates burst up, either by a land tax or by some other method. I think, with Mr. Reid, that the existence of these large landed estates helps to retard the progress and development of any country.

LABOC:R J\IE:I!BERS: Hear, hear!

Mr. HAMILTON: I was going last year to Adelaide, and, passing through Victoria up to­wards Bal!arat, I "as surprised to 8ee large areas with sheep running on them-not two hours' train ride outside Melbourne. There were miles and miles of country, and yet there are people in Victoria who cannot get an acre of land, and many of them have come up to Queensland. Now, in Queensland we have millions and millions of fertile acres. Some of it is not tapped by milways-a great deal of it is in the North. 'Ve ought to have some method of opening np these lands, and I think a land tax is a good method of doing so, because people will not then hold on to the land for a speculative purpos~.

Mr. CoYNE: It will cheapen it.

Mr. HAMILTON: It will cheapen it for those who v. ant to use it.

Mr. GRAYSON: vVhat would be the exemp­tion?

Mr. OoYNE : £300.

Mr. HAMILTON: That is merely a detail. In the Labour partv's platform there is an exemption of £300. I believe there should he an exemption myself, although the hon. member for Olermont says he does not believe in an exemp­tion. The Labour p<1rty do believe in an exemp­tion.

Mr. GRAYSOX: vVhat about the minimum of your tax?

Mr. HAMILTON: The Premier, speaking the other day at Harrisville, S>1id-

'rhe Socialis-t party wonld impose on the farmers a land value tax, which, as )fr. Lesina explained, would tax all the value ont ot' frePhold land anr1 machine1y and implements of prodnetion as well. That \Yas one of the thing~ they meant by the phrase, "nationalising all the means ot' production and exchange.''

\Vhen the hon. member for Olermont made those remarks on the floor of the House he was not speaking on behalf of the Labour party.

LABOUR J\I~'lllBJms : Hear, hear!

Mr. HAMILTON: He was not voicing the sentiments of this party. And it is a strange

thing that 50,000 or 60,000 copies of [9 p.rn.] the !Jon. men1ber's speech had been

dietributed through the farming dis­tricts of Queen-land. 'Ve know wry well that the Labour ]Jarty have not distributed them. Now, who did, and what is the motive for the speech being distributed? It is simply trying to make out that the hon. member for Olermont was speaking on behalf of the Labour party, and

[Mr. Hamilton.

that the Labour party wanted to tax the farmers off the land and out of their homes. That is utter nonoense. The Labour party are not trying to do anything of the kind. "What we are ad V<J­

cating i.~ a land tax to burst up big estates and cheapen land for the people. No matter how people fight against it, a land tax is inevitable in Qneensland in the near future, whether the Labour party bring it in or not.

LABOl:R ME1IBERS: Hear, hear!

Mr. HAJ\HLTOX: vVe can see the trend of even~s in the Federal Parliament. The Com­monwealth Governrnent want more money, and they are going to have more money. The States will have to impose more taxation, and there is no fairer method of raising additional revenue than by means of a land tax. All the talk at the present moment about a land tax is for no other purpose than to frighten the farmers by telling them, "The Labour party arA your enemies, and we are your friends." The Labour party believe in a land tax. vVe have always advocated it, and we aiways will advocate it ; but to say that we have ever advoc~ted or dreamt, or thought of taxing land to the extent of ls. in the £ i~ to miscontrue the aims and objects of the Labour party.

I\Ir. GRAYSOX: \Veil, what is your minimum~

Mr. HAMILTON: vVe have no minimum­we have never debated that-that is a detail that has yet to be settled. But we have no intention of imposing a land tax that will drive away people who are honestly and properly using the land. We will only m"'ke it easier for them to get on to the land, as we want to assist people to settle on the land. If we had a land tax, we could wipe out a lot of other irritating taxes that not only farmers but many other people in the community are suffering under at the present time. There are a Jut of small taxes that could he wiped out. I would like to read an article from the Queensland Leader nf 23rd J uly--that is since the hrm. member for Clermont delivered his speech here-

LA~D VALUE TAXATION.

We can ha.rdly blame< the metropolitan and country Press for filling their leading columns with misrepresentation in regard to the Labour party's land value tax proposals after reading the extravagantly absurd pronouncement upon the ques~ tion by :J.fr. Lesina.

..And just here we desire to inform our readers in the country that 1\-Ir. Lesina's remarks in re­lation to the land value tax are solei.)" and wholly that gentleman's individual opinion.

It was only to be expentcd that the Brisbane Courier, Quetmsland TiJneR, and other anti-Labour ne,vspapers would not allow such an expression as " a thumping big land tax of 3d. to ls. in the £1" to go by without making much political capital out of it.

Kow, as a matter of fact, there is only one member of the Labour party who would utter such a ridiculously extravagant statement, and that member is Mr. Lesina.

The Conservative Press may turn and twist as it like,, but it " nnnot fool all the people all the 'time." It may quote }lr. Lesina; it may talk of "confiscation:' it may wilfully misrepresent t~e Labour party's taxation proposals, but all this will not prevent the Labour party growing in strength both inside and outside Parliament.

It is a well-known fact that the Labour party is the only party which tackles the land question seriously. It realises that during the past fifty years of responsible government in Queensland the forty odd Land Ache which have received legisla­tive• consideration are purely class statutes, and of little or no use to the bona fide settler. Con­sequently, in this great -territory there are thou~:~ands of landless n1en and neariv all the land worth settling upon is monopolised. ·

Already, indeed, have the farmers had to pay noorly a million sterling to enable them to settle

Address in Reply. [3 AuGusT.] Address in Reply. 543

upon estates repurchased in close proximity to rail,vay communication.

Land, therefore, in Queensland has re-come very dear, and the more the mouopolist locks up the drarer it be,·ome.s.

The Labour party desires to boldly face the position and provides 1n its platform the follow­ing, all of which is carefully omitted by the anti­Labour Press~-

Progre~:':live tax upon publicly created land values, with the exemption of £300.

Which mcans-(1) That the tax would be levied onlv on the

bare unimproved value of the holding, all improvements of whahoeve-r kind remain­ing absolutely untouched; and

(2) That no farm or holding worth under £300 when stripped of all improvements would pay a single farthing of taxation.

Then as to the incidence of the proposed tax, which our readers will see is progressive!

Take, say, the basis of 1d. in £1 (and it may not be that much) on holdings the unimproved values of which range from £300 to £1,000, the taxation payable would be as follows:-

Unimproved Value. rrax Payable. Land worth £300 Nil Land worth £330 4s. 2d. a year or 1d.

a week Land worth £400 Ss. 4d. a year or

2d. a week Land worth £600 25s. a year or Std.

a week Land worth £800 ... 41s. Sd. a vear or 9d.

a week Land worth £1,000 ... ... 58s. 4d. a year or

1s. 1d. a wook. \Vhere is the confiscation about such a proposal?

\Vhere is the "thumping big" land tax? \Vhere is the "taxing a farmer out of his farm" about this proposal,?

As a matter of fact, if such a proposal were effected all the other irritating taxes would be abolished. a circumstance }ir. Lesina entirely omitted to mention.

Space prevents other than a passing reference to this interesting subject, but we make bold to assert that once the farmer grasps the meaning of the Labour party's land value tax he 'vill have nothing to do with any other party; and for the simple reason that it will bring him cheap and better land, cheap carriage, and opportunities for his children now gbringly denied him by tbe land monopolist and speculator. And in no district in Queensland are there bigger object lessons in this respeCt than in the country electorates of \Vest Moreton and the Darling Downs.

That showR that the proposals of the Labour party are progressive, and that, even if a farmer owned £1,000 wnrth of land, he would only lmve to pay, at ld. in the £1, something like £2 a year. Look at all the irritating taxes that he has to pay at the present time.

Mr. GRAYSO"': \Vhy he pays nearly all the taxes.

Mr. HAMILTON: He does not, but be lms top •Y a g"od many irritating taxes that should be d"ue away with. The taxation proposalH ,,f the Labonr party will stand examination. Be­fore I lea\·e this .•.nbject, I will say that, taking the remarks of JYir. George Reid in the Federal Parliament, and recognising that the Federal Government, no nmttcr whether it is the present Governrnent, or what Govt"rnment may be in power-will have to get mom revenue, then I contend that a land tax is the fairest and jestest tax that can be impo.<ed, and befme very long you will tind that the land tax proposals con· tainerJ in the Labour party's platform will he placed on t!,~ sbt<Ile-book, like many other pro­posals of the1rs.

iYir. RAXKIX: Do you advor-.-,te a land tax for revenue purposes?

Mr. HA MILTON: It is mostly advocated for the purpose of breaking up the'e large estates.

Mr. GRAYSOX: Yes; but ld. in the £1 is only the thin end of the wedge.

:Mr. COYNE: RPrnove the other taxes. Mr. HYLAND: Give you cheap railways.

The SPEAKER: Order, order !

Mr. HA1IILTON: I want now to make a few rerna.rks on another measure that is mentioned in the Governor's Speech-that is, a Redistri butiou of Seats Bill. :B'rnm what I have heard, it seems tn me that it ought to be called a Bill to Defeat Democracy. It has leaked out that the de,ign of the Premier and members ~upporting him is to introduce a Bill which will "rpe out a number of electorates in the North anct \Vest anrl create additional electorat<>S in tbe South. \Ve know very well that the great bulk of our population, more than 50 per cent. of it, is centred within a radius of lOO miles of Brisbane. \Vhile there are big industries in the North and \Yest, such as the pastoral industry and the mining industry, they are of such a nar ure that the population in those parts of the St>tte is necessarily sparse and scattered. The .Minister for Lands when speak­ing the other night said there were som-~ anoma­lies existing in the North and \Vest, and that a lot of electorates there must be wiped out.

The SECRETARY J;'Ol\ PUBLIC LANDS : vVho said that?

Mr. HAMILTON: The Minister for Lands. The hon. gentleman said that the anomalies and disparities were so great that they must be wiped out.

The SECRETARY J;'OR PUBLIC LANDS : That the anomalies should be wiped out.

Mr. HAMILTON: When the Premier pledged himself to our party, he was against a reduction in the number of members in this House, and I believe he d<,es not propose now to reduce the nurnber of n1ernbers, but frurn rumours which are afloat, w hi eh are, I believe, pretty correct, it appears that it is the intention of the hon. gentleman to wipe out several ele0torates in the North and \Ves', and to create a num\,er of new electorates in the South, where the influence of the metropolitan Press will be felt, so that he may get a longer term of office. If you look at the population of the electorates in some other countrie", you will find that Queensland is not alone in reg"rd to the <li.•p ll'ity be­tween the population of different electorates. I was looking through "\Vhitaker's Almanac" the other day, and I found that as great anomalie.-. and disparities in this connection exist in England as are to be found in Queens­land. If it was possible to have one vote one value and equal electorates, it should be pos,ible in a country like England, where the population, -the rural population, atanyrate-i' fairly evenly distributed; but, as I bcty, you will find there anomalies similar to those which exist in Queens­land. It is only very recently that this quPstion of a redistribution of seats has as,umed such importance and urg·ency in the minds of hon. nJembers oppositt-'"

1\Ir. FoRYSTH : It was discussed ten years ago.

1\Ir. HAMILTON : I know that. it has been discussed by some members of the House within the last ten years. I know also that when the hon. rnembrr for Townsville \tl. a~ Premier he was going- to introduce a Redistribution Bill, hut when the members of his own party saw how it vvas going to work l;Ut, and the 1njnstice it would inflict on the people of the Northern and Central districts, they brought such pressure to bear on the hon. gentleman that he decided not to intro­duce the measure.

Mr. :B'oRSYTH: He went out of office then.

Mr. Hamilton.]

51,4 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

Mr. HA VIILTON: It was thrown on one side a good while before he went out of office.

GOVERN:I!lJ~N1' MEJ\JBERS: No, no !

Mr. HA::VIILTOK : A good deal of the opposi­tion to his proposal came from members of his own party A ref•'"ence to "Whitaker's Almanac" will show the following disparity in the number of elector• in the electorates mentioned :--Durham City, 2,580; I<'ulham, 20,620; Elgin, 4,867 ; Chester Le Streete, 20,910; Grantham, 3,38:~; Hereford, 3,852; \Valthamstowe, 35,321; Long­ford, 3,699; Southend, 20,591; Montgomery, 3,318; Middleboro, 21,000; Ne wry, 1,905; Cardiff, 27,088. There are a great many others which mil(ht he quoted, the number of electors rang·ing from 1,!!00 tn 45,579 in Essex. I :e,,d an article in to-day's Dnily 3Iail on t.hi, subJect. I do not know wl;ether it was inspired; but it was evidently published with the vtew of len,ding the people<>! Queensland to believe. that the _dis­parity in the nurnber of electors 1n fJUr Vfi.rtous con~titnencies, particularly in the North and \Vest, is peculiar to (2ueensland, and against the intere,ts of QneenRland.

The SECRETARY FOR :\IINES: It. is not peculiar to Queensland. l'\ o one says that.

Mr. HA:!\IILTO:'\: Whitaker further shows that the number of electors in Irish constituncies ranges fnnn 1,900 to 5,000, and we know very well that tho Irish member who represents only 4, 000 or il, 000 electors l1as an eq nal voice in legi.:;;lation with a 1nen1ber rnr1ret>enting an elec~ torate hke E'3t-:ex, with its 45,000 electors.

:'vir. "b'onsYTH: Do you think that is right?

:'vir. HA:\I!LTOX: I am noc a,;serting that it is right. I l"<ty tha.t hon. wernbers oppusite try tomtk>o nut that Queensland is the only country in '<A·hich "'nch anmna1ies exi,,;t.

:\Jr. FoRSY'l'H; Xo.

Mr. HAMILTOX: If any attempt is made to do w!•at I am infortned the Govenunent intend to ch-·--t:1:tt i.s. to wipe ont a lot !)f eL.:etorates in the Xor:h ancl \Vest, and create additional elect,Jratu in th8 South-that will be a great injustice to the Korth and \Vest.

The TRE:ASUHEH: \Vho informed you of this?

:Mr. HA.'IIILTON: The object of the G-o­vernment in this 1n 1-:-ter ha.s l8nkect out, and I know very well that they would do anything at the prPF:ent tirtP-' thR.t ''{mld. ensure them a con­tinn:-tnee of officr-. I an1 qui"'~ certain that if thPy c •n!d Rtreng-th:"n their position and ?ling to otfic-o by doing that, they would not hes1tate to do ir. The other night the hon. n18tn 1<er for 'l'ownsville, in l-::1lJeaking on railways, ~,aid-

The Nrn·theru portion of Qneensland is not largely reprc~ented. Three-fourths of t11n repn -,cntation is in the Sout.h, ber.ause three-fonrth~ of tlH' p.eople lh·e il~ the South, and that means that the reqmrements of the ~outh are first considered.

One of the chief reasons why the requirements of the North and vVest have been neglected for vears and' years is that there is .uch a large r.roportion of the population in the South. The J\'orth and \Vest have never received any­thinrr like the attention the South has received. \Ye know that if there is anything required for a constituency in the South, especially for a constituency in the immediate vicinity of Bris­bane, all a member has to do is to introduce a deputation to tho Minister. On that deputa. tion he will get ten or twenty influential rosi­dents, including aldermen and shire coun­cillors, who will brin[\ forward such arguments, persuasion, and influence that they will get from the Government what they want. Take the distant electorates in the North and the one I represent. The only mediuw between

[Mr. H am£lton.

the people in those districts and the depar~­ments of the State is their member, and he rs kept rroinrr all the time. Take the electorates round Brisbane, even if they have 6,000 or 7.000 electors they are better represented than an electorate away in the North or West ~ould be with about 1,000 electors, because the mflu­ence they can bring_ to bea: upon the Minister down in the South 1s ten times what they can bring to bear in the North. Therefore, I ~ay it would be a crueltv to members representmg Northern and Central constituencies to give countenance to such a measure. I say they would be doing an injustice to the North and \V est. I believo there is a good deal of truth in the rumour that this Bill is to be introduced by the Government of thel day just to wipe o~t si'x or seven seats in the North m;d Centre, m order to create six! or ,even son,ts m the South, and thus strengthen their position; and if they can onlv get that Redistribution Bill through before th~y have to go to the country they ~would be able to come back strong eno_ugh to remain in office. As far as th1s B1ll ~s ~or:­cerned, I shall certainly vote n,gam.st .rt If_ rt does come up. We know ver0• well rt 1s quite possible to bring in a Redistributio:' ?f Seats Bill, because thero arB anomahes. ex!stm?, but I sav that if there is any Red1str:butwn of Seab Bill at all it will have to deal JUstly and fairly by the Nort~ and the W<c;;t. If it _is going to less-en theu r€pres~n~ahC?n one b1t, th<>n they are g·oing to do an li_lJ ushce to those districts. Although they m1ght alter the boundaries of some electorates a bit, they ~re not conkmplating that. It is t~eir intentwn to wipe out certain electorates m the North and crPate others down here. However, I have this opinion of the Governrn<ont n,nd ~he Pr<>mier anJ hon. members assoCiated wrth Lirn: I will not take them on trust. I will. do all I po, sibly can to defeat them, knowmg from the expressions I havo heard m tbe country where I have been travelling that this Government has not p:ot the confidence of the people in tho country. Anyhow. if th_ey thought they hn,d the confidence of the ma]O· rity of the c,lnstituents, they would :'ot bel hanging,· on as they are at the present hme by "the skin of thrir teeth." They would ·not bave been afraid to meet the House _early in l\Iav. Thev would not have been afra1d, wJ:en th<e. motion' of want of confidence was earned by only one vote _to 12:0 to the country. They kno\V that the feeling 111 the country 1~ aq"a1nst them, and they are afraid of their masten. I wish now to say a kw words on the ra!lway policy of the Gm·ernment. The ~ecretn,ry for Public Landc,, when he was speakmg the other night on the railway proposals of the c;;overn­ment, said the Labour pn,rty were agarr:st the borrowing of money for tbo constructwn of railwavs. and he wanted to know where th<;Y would ~et the monev from to construct rail­ways .~hen they were against borrowing. I say the Labour par.ty are n~Jt against borrow­ing. Thev are agn,mst the mdrscnmmatB bor­rowing that was characteristic of past Govern­ments, but they are not against borrowing for reproductive works. The leader of the Labour party. speaking in 1908, as reported in Han­.<ard, page 831, said-

HA wished to say, a.t the outset. speaking on behalf of the Labour party, that they, as a pflrtY, Wf're not opposed to borrowing for reproductive works, but they were not in favour of a -polic:v of exCP.<::sive borro viag and spending it indiscriminately. But where the ':r...J.Jaey was borrowed and spent judiciou;;;ly the Labour party, as well as other parties in the House, would give m;);'3t~ ance to a policy of that kind.

Mr. Bowman at that time was speaking on

Address in Repl,y. [3 AUGUST.] Address in Reply. 545

behalf of the Labour party. That is the policy of the Labour party-we are not opposed to borrowing for reproductive works, but wo do protest against the borrowing policy that has been inaugurated by past Govern­ments. For years and years, ever since we have had constitutional government in Queensland, money has been squandered, and at tho present time we have a national d'ebt of something like £40,000,000. I think myself, like the hon. member for Nnndah, that it is nearly time that the Government instituted a system of providing for a sinking fund. \Vhen a local authority borrows from the Govern­ment £10,000 or £20,000 for public works, or reproductive works, they have to pay interest and redemption. They have to provide not only for the interest on that money, but also a sinking fund, and I do not see why the central Govcrnrn<>nt should not do the same, and provido a sinking fund to meet those loans. They arc becoming heavier and heavier C'very year. I think the avcrag8 now is some­thing like £1,000,001) per year ever since we have had constitutiOnal government.

Hon. R PHILP: Nothing like that.

:\Ir. HAMILTO::-\: Our national debt IS something like £40,000,000.

Hon. R. PHILP: \Ve have had constitutional government for fifty years now.

:\fr. Hc'l.MILTO:';': We arc not again t the policy of uorTu',\ ing for uocc osary reproductive works, and the Government should bring in a system of providing a sinking fund. lt is late in the dav now, but it can never be too late-it is "better late than never." The hon. member for .Yloreton, when speaking the other night, said the way our railways were worked wa,s a credit to the State. I say .so too, but that is a great argument in favour of the State ownership of our rail ways. I think, considering the cheap railway construction that we have in Queensland and the great length of railway' we have, the way our rail­ways ar{' worl~Pd ib. a Crf\,!it to the State-. There is one thing ho took credit for. That is this: He ,'f!id that, this Government has reduced th" fares and freights of the railways by £125,000. I say this Government never did it. It was a Government over there, sup­ported by the Labour party. who did that. It was a Government supported at that time by all the members who ~oit on this side of the Hou,;e. And what is more, it was during the administration of the gentlemen sitting on the other sido of the House that that £125,000 in far<9 and freights wa-s put on the railways-it was during thoir regime. Most of the speakers havP tried to mako out this great policy of progre3s-this policy of rail way construction in Queensland is being opposed by the Labour party. I say that is not so. The Labour party have never opposed State rail ways, but they ha ye opposed all private rail ways, and in future they are going to oppose them. I w1sh now to say a few remarks on another railwav. \Ve know that for oome years there has "been an agitation going on in the North and in the Central districts, and I know there have been many deputations to the JYiinister for Railways-not only the present Minister, but to h1s pre­decessor-for connectJOn to be made between the 1\orthern and Central systems-between Winton and Longreaeh. Lately there is found t-o oo rival routes. One is from Barcaldine to Hughenden, and others nearer the coast. However, for some tim<" there was opposition at Longreach on behalf of the local people, but· after awhile they came round, and joined the

1909-2M

Winton people in the guarantee. A deputa­tion waited on the present

[9.30 p.m.] Minister, and I havte ooen him myself privately, asking him for

a survey from \Vinton to Longreach. We have never had a definite promise cllat it will oo made in the near future; and I was sur­prised the other day to read this in the Courier-

l\fr. VV. F. Aplin, who w:.ts appointed hy the Com­mi:<.tiioner fm· lt'lilway~ to mspect the riYal r:-til\\'RY routes from Longreach to \Yinton and Hughcndcn to ~IuttabmTR, and thence to Aramac and .BrllTHlfline, returned this morning. In the eonrse of nn interview, he stated t.haL a. practicable route fr01n Barcaldlne to Hug hen len \VOUld rnn w.tthin r:;ix miles of Muttaburra \Vithout cros~wg the Landsborough or the Thomson. '' 'l'he line \VOn!d lHtS" through riell country, splen­didly adapted. for close settlement. On illi·' r011te there n ould be no briclging, with the exccpt10n of Cornish and Tower Hill Creeks. The eo<~t of the line \Yould be :tpproximntely £.~()(1.00d. A Hecont1 route \VOuld crms the I-'andsboroug-h 11ear Mnttaburra, theuce running to Stamford. r:l'he route from Longreach to lYinton \vould also cost .£:;OO/H 10 O\ving- to the ht ~vy work in brid¥ing the Thom~on Ri H·r. He estimated for a high-le\·el bridg·e four miles. at ,t~O,I'OO per mll~'. Tht:-; route wonld • serve only ~Janel'oo, E\·esh~nn, anr1 Vindex station~:<. neither of which was more t.lwn fill miles at ~my point from rullww( eommnnit3ation. On ilw otl?-er hanrt. thn Al'ama~._-l!ughenden route would serve fnlly }IJII mile:s more country, and Plllbr<tee two old-estalJlished l 'JWllS. Ou tlJis rout<· st:.ttiou OWllt'1'S were con~ider­ably more than 100 miles from the rail;vny. \'fithout dc-traeting in any \v:ry Irnm the I.ongrt·ach-\Yinton rontc, wLich has mauy adv~1nb~"---:," •. id ~Ir. Aplin, " the ronte rta .Jlutt::tburra wonld h2 the rnost beneficial for the State, <lS ot-frrin~ betterfaCili.t·iPs for hmd :-;et.tle~ ment." _\Ir. ltlliu advocates H. (;oyermneut motor sen·JCe between Longrc.trh auli \Yinton_

I have met this gentleman, and I think that, in asking i\'lr. A pli n to give a report on a question of that sort, someone must have been playmg a practical joke on the Comll'_lis­.r::ioner, berausc he is a. n1an of no standing in the cominercial or engineering world. I rang up the Commis,ioner, and was told that i\Ir. ApEn v·as rccomm<:mded to the Commis­sioner.

Hon. R. PmLP: Who recommended him? J'.Ir. IL\:\IILTOl\: I did not hear. I was

told by tho Commissioner that Mr. Aplin wrote to him offering to furnish this report, and stating that he had gnat knowledge of tho country. He was only asked to report on the commercial aspect of the question.

Tho iSJ,CHETARY FOR RAILWAYS: That is so. \Ye have not received his report yet.

:\-lr. HA:YlJLTO:[\:: He was not asked to report on the engineering difficulties. I asked the Commissioner whether he was to be paid, and he said he supposed the expeuces would ha';e to bo paid. I say this report carries its own absurdity and its condemnation on its face. Instead of .1dr. Aplin furnishing his report to the Commic.sioner for Raih, ays, he sent it to the Courier, and the first thing the Commicsioner knew about it was when he read this paragraph.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: That is so.

Mr. HAJVIlLTON: And according to what the Minister for Railways says, the Commis­sioner has not received the report yet.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Not that I a1n a ware of.

.:VIr. HAMILTON: I say it is an absurdity to talk about a high-level bridge of four miles over the Thomson at £50,000 a mile; and, as to tho distance, it is only 115 miles from \'in ton to Longreach in a straight line, whereas from Barcaldine to Hughenden is about double the distance.

Mr. KERR: Not double the distanoo.

Mr. Hamilton.]

546 Addt·ess M ltepl:IJ· [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

Mr. HAMILTON: Very near double the distance; and it is absurd to say that one would cost just as much as the other. I have a knowlEodge of the country traversed by the rival routes extending over a good many years, and I have seen the Aramac Creek two or three miles wide ; and there is just as often a flood in these creeks he mentions as there is in the 'l'homson River; in fact, there is often a flood above JHuttaburra when there is no floou at Longreach, where the water spreads out more. l\IIy reason for making these remarks is that this report might be taken seriously by the people in the country. I hope it will not be taken seriously; but they may think that .Mr. Aplin was sent from Bris­bane, and that he is an officer of the depart­ment when he is nothing of the sort. He was not asked to give an opinion as to the en­gineering difficulties ; and he has not carried out his agreement with the Commissioner. I am plea·-,ed to be able to refute his state­ment when he says that the route from Win­ton to Longreach is going to cost more than the other. It seems as if someone in favour of the BarcaJdine to Hughenden route got him to send this statement, and played a practical joke on the Commissioner by get­ting Mr. Aplin to send this report down. One paragraph of the Governor's Speech states-

You will also be a~kcd to npprove or a preliminary survey of a raHway running north-westerly and south­easterly acrl)ss ·western Queensland. As regards the development of this State, such a line would have 1 wo great advantages: it wouid bring great mineral areas anri practieally the whole of our partoraJconutr.Y wit bin profitable working distance of railway communication, and, connected, as it would b1~, with our three ma.in trunk lines, it woulc:l n.fford such 1Hcilitic8 for tran~it ol stock as would give the hE::st security against a recur­rence of the enormous losses of the past.. If connected with :some Xorthern port it 'vould also have the fnrther }l,dvantage of providing the whole of the enstern half of Au!';tralia with the most cxpeditwu~ route ror EnropE':an mail~.

I would like to know from the Secretary for Railways who has asked for this railway. Certainly none of the people in the far Western and Northern parts of the State. I am told that it is to go somewhere from Thargomindah. and whether it went to Nor­manton or to Burketown it would traverse the poorest portions of our pastoral districts, where vou could not increase the number of stock e;.en if you put a network of railways there unless you could alter the rainfall.

Mr. l\IURPHY: Th-ere is a good rainfall in the far North.

Mr. HA:\UL'l'ON: There is in the far North, but not in a good deal of the country that would be trav·ersed by this railway. I say that the money nece•,sary for the construc­tion of a line of that sort would construct hundreds of mik-, of railwJ.V in districts that would settle ten times the population that rail­way would settle, A railway like that is not going to bring any grist to the mill of Bris­bane. or Rockhamplon, or Townsville. If con. nccted with the different port,, of Quecnsland it would require all the other .extensions to junction with it. It would carry everything • to Sydney, and would bring nothing to the Que-msland coast. \Vhere would a railway running· to Burketo,.vn or a railway running to Tbargomindah help to bring goods to Townsville, or Rockhampton, or BrisLane?

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: \Vhy not?

Mr. HA),IILTON: Because it would not do so unless you linked it up with the other rail. ways; and look at the money it would cost to build it!

:Jfr. Ilnmilton.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: The parae graph distinctly says that it is to be linked up.

::\Ir. HA:\IILTON: So far as the Northern and Central parts of the State are concerned, they are anxious for the expeditious linking· up of the Central and Northern systems, 1!-nd most of them are in favour of the lmes bemg linked up betwen Longreach and \Vinton. I believe that would be the cheapest way to do, and it is certainly the best method by which it can be accomplished. I have never met anybody who asked for ·a railway of this kind to he built as is proposed. I am not say­ing that it is not in the womb of the future, as I believe the time will come when we shall have to have a transcontinental railway tra­versing the interior of Queensland. But we are not far enough advanced to go in for that yet and the money can be better spent inside, wh~re we can settle ten times the population and get ten times the value for thD money than' could be obtained by spending it on a transcontinental railway. If you want to de­velop the pastoral industry. you can do that by making the connection between Longreach and \\~inton. It will not cost much to burld, and manv of the arguments adva-nced will apply to this line. It' would be an insurance in drought time; it would enable the depart­ment to shift their rolling-stock from one por­tion of the State to the 'other, and it would meet the requirements of the l)eople in those districts for many, many years to come. If a. proposal of the sort proposed were to come before the House, I do not think that half a dozen members would support it when they get to realise what such a proposal means.

Mr. l\1ITCHELL: vVhere will the money come from?

Mr. HAMILTON: Thev will have to borrow it It will mean that 1.400 miles of railway ,v"il! have to be built. and anyone with common sense v.oultl know that 1,400 miles of railway ou.t there would not do as much good as 500 miles, ?r one-third of that _dis­t:wce. constructed m the settled portions of th.e State. It is a proposal that carries its own condemnation. In speaking about railv a vs there is one thing I would like to touch c,;_ I think It is nearly time that those responsible for the administration of our r~il­ways shoulJ Lake upon them selves to prov1de better accommodation for the lengthsmen living on the lines in the North. :r'he men in the South can get bark and timber to build a home, but it is different in the North. If vuu went b"tv;ecn Hughenden and \Vinton and Hughenrlen and Cloncurry, and saw ~he bits of humpies that the people had to hve in there, vou would think it was t0rrible. The" have' all the .scorching heat of summer; and~ a· evcrvone knows \vho has been out the,:c there is also the bleak winds of winter, and they have to suffer piercing cold from these ''"incls. By the aid of that measure ,,hich we pac_,.ed in this House, we have forrnd the pastoralish to provide decent accommodation for their employees, and the Government should .eurely s"t a good example by doing the same for the men working for them. As the railways arc returning a good surplus. some of it might be spent in making homos for these lcr·"(thsmcn along the line, and enabling them to live in a little more comforl than th0y do at the present time. The lengthsman is in this position: Ho is not there stdionary. He may be put on the le11gths for ~t certain distance, and then, in a month's time. he may be wanted somewhere else, so that, if he puts up a home for himself, he has to sell it for what it will fetch. If

Add1'ess in Repl,y. [3 AuGUST.] Address in Reply. 547

they were stationed permanently at any one place, they might he able to go in for good homes for themselves, but they cannot do that when they have to shift about from place to place. There is no timber or material of any sort to build a house, and it is pretty well up to the Government to see that lengthsmen on this line have better ac­commodation than what they have at the present time. I want to say a few word•, now on the lands administration and the land policy of the Government. I was going through the report of the Under Secretary for Lands, and I must congratulate him for bringing out such a good report. I think this is about one of the best rcports-~tbout one of the most plain spoken-I have seen come out. The Minister for Lands, speaking the other night in his opening speech, said that h<> apprehended that in a short time there would be some difficulty in getting suit­able areas for grazing farms. 'When the Act of 1902 was introduced, it was pointed out by members of this party to the Government led by the hon. member for Townsville that the necessity would arise in the near future for areas for grazing farms, and if they passed a measure like that 1902 Act, and locked up lands where railways existed, and where railways were projected, is was going to put back settlement for years to come. Our words were unheeded on that ociasion. The Minister hims<Oif said that he did not hesitate to say that they were encumbered by the Act of 1902. We know that they are encumbered by the Act of 1902. Wo saw the other day where the shire council of Barcal­dine is sending down a request to the Minister to resume some of the pastoral holdings in that drstrict, oven bv paying compensation, in order that they may be thrown open for grazing farms.

Mr. KERR: And so is the Blackall Municipal Council.

Mr. HAMILTON: The only way they can obtain land for settlement as grazing farms is by resuming these holdings, and paying com­pensation for them. It was shortsightedness on the part of the Government lPd by Mr. Philp when they passed a measure of that sort. It was pointed out to him at the time that it would block settlement, and yet we found that lobbying was going on-they had the secretary of the Pastoralists' Association there and the solrcitor of the Pastoralists' Association and members of the Pastoralists' Association executive-all lobbying, and the Minister of the day going backwards and for­wards to then1, and an1endment after amend­ment being brought in. What w.1s the result? The Act of 1864, which was passed by Mr. Dutton, I regard as one of the best Acts of Pa.rliament over passed in the history of Queensland, an Act which was pas··cd with a view to breaking up the. big squattagec. and opening up the land for settlement. In that Act Mr. Dutton made provision against the aggre,·;ation of land and against dun1n1ying, but we know that in every subsequent Land Act that has been passed since that there has been withdraY··"· from the Act of 1884 some of the safeguards for aggTegation and dum1nyin.!Y on the part of the lessee. \V e know very well that when the Act of 1902 was introduced the provisions there against the pastoral lessee being allowed to select, or anyone in his employ being allowed to select, within a certain number of miles of thB holdinv, werB all repealed, and what do we find to-day? I say that aggregation has been more rife in the last four or five years in Queensland than

evBr it was previously. When that 1884 Act was brought in it was intended to settle the colony in small areas as grazing farms, but what do we find? I imow one instance myself where one-half of the resumed leasehold was selected by a lessee from another district. I know mys<'li one pastoral firm in Queensland which holds 700,000 acres in grazing farms.

Mr. KERR: And grabbing more.

nlr. HAMILTON: And grabbing more every day. That was never contemplated when wJ passDd thB 1902 Act in Queensland. 1 think that some action should be taken towards stopping the aggregation that is taking pLzr-ce, and breaking up the aggregation that has taken place already. We know that the residence conditions of the Act were rBlaxed on account of the drought which occurred a few years ago. The House was sympathetic at the timB, and many were allowed to forego the residence conditions im­posed upon thBm by the Act. But instead of that being temporary while the drought existed, it has become permanent, and I say that it is up to the department to shake up the Crown lands rangers and others to see that the provisions of the Act are carried out. I know one instance where a pastoral lessee has dummied a selection on his run. They are getting Cobb and Co.'s coachman-registered as the bailiff, and he does not live on the selection at all ; he lives a way on the stock route, yet he is registered as the bailiff. There is no house, nor has there ever been a person living on that se!Bction. If that was op-ened for selection to-day there would be twenty or thirty applicants for it. And yet that is the way the Act is evaded! They give Cobb and Co.'s groom 10s. a week to be registered as bailiff-I do not know what he gets from CDbb and Co. The Government want to shake up the <JfficBrs of the department to see that more bond fide settl€ment is taking place than what has taken nlace. The hon. member for War­rego and the hon. member for Barcoo said that they were against the present system of sealed tender, and want to revert to the ballot system. I do not belie''' in the old baJlo" syst.em, and while I do not like the sealed tender sy.rem, the home-t<'ad conditions con­tained in those provisions is the best test you can have. as to whether a man is a bonr1 fide applicant or not. It is impossible for the members of the court, or whoover it is who is receiving the applications, to toll whether this or the other applicant is bond fide or a dummy. The best test of uona fid,s is the homestead :r;rDvision contained in the Act. If it is pos­sible to do away with the sealed t<mder sys­tem, or even to introduce a ballot system, and still retain th9 homestBad provisions, g·rvmg the bond fide man who is willing­to take up and live on the land priority, I would fall jn with it: but to revert to the ballot system, as wo knew it before th<e ·oealed t<ender system we< brou~ht in, I am certainly not with the hon. members there.

Mr. KERR: I did not adv<Jcate that the homutead provisions should be done away with.

Mr. H_l .. MILTON: I understood the hon. member to ask that the ballot system should be rcvorted to; he never mentioned home­steads. I know myself when we had the old ballot svstem, men who could not raise a shilling 'one day. on the day the land was opew·d planked down £100 or £150 as the first year's fee

Hon. R. PHILP: It was a regular Adams' sweep.

Mr.liamilton.]

MS Address in RepTy. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

Mr. HAMILTON: It was. I know in one town there wcro clergymen, doctors, lawyers; every person in the town had applications in for some of these selections-men who~" never intended L1 live on them. If thev were success­ful in ,',.a.wing the ballot, they sold their right.

Hon. R. PHILP: Up to £1,500, in one case.

Mr. HAMILTO?-<: I know that some of them got big sllms. I knew one bond fide selector himself. who is in Brisbane at the present time. He was a bond fide applicant. He was going in for ballots over twelve months, and he could not got a selection; yet civil servants, schoolmasters, lawyers, and everyone else could draw them. This man resorted to the same method, and put one appli< ation in in the name of a niece in Victoria, and ycr he was bowled out, and had to !l'O and buv ono. I am not in favour of reverting to the old ballot system, but I am not tied up to· the scaled tender svstem. I think thew should be some method 'by which eyery applicant should prove that he is a bond fide applicant. As far as the Act of 1902 is conccrnbd, I said at tho time, and I say now, that tho day would come when those who Yolocl for th'' Act would be sorry for doing so. It was bro,ght in at a timo of great di•;trcss in the prr;toral indmlry. It was supposed to bP a relief measure brought in out of sym­pathy, but to extend the leases for a period of thi1·ty and forty years, E'pecially in districts where ·"' cont.omplatecl building railways, was to retard the clo,cr settlement of the countrv. The railwa,- down thG Flinders has since that time b ·;en built. No doubt the early pioneer and tho old-time squatter was a good thing for the country in thB early days--

::'.Ir. \VniTE: Hear, hear!

1\Ir. Hx:,nLTON: But the time has como when these lon ... lGa•.<'s a.nd la.r• ,, holdings vdl have to o by th·G board. In ruanv CfL~cs to-da·y tho holdin::·s· are far too larce. ...':\. ff'w month~s ac;·o. while I 'VU'. travclliwr. I went thrmwh h~ldin:..:·s on the riYcr for 7 {)f 8 miles on b{)f-h -side:-; whi~h \1 0re as ba.re as this floor. The cattle were in an emaciatod condition in many ins: J,nce.::, tJut when yon go·l 9 or 10 miles out the grass was 2 feet high, but the stock could not get to it becathe it was too far from the watN. If th<·· e people had smaller holdings, an'! improved them more, they could carry just as much -tack on one half the area they have now. I know holdingo on which you can travel 130 miln from one side to the other. These holdings arc too large, and if they were reduced in size I am quite CPrtain the country would carry moro stock than it does at present.

Mr. WHITE: Hear, hear!

Mr. HAiv1ILTON: Land has been resumed on many of the holdings out 'Vest, and cut up into grazing farms, and the remaining land, with the improvements, is carrying as much stock a, when the lessee had the whole area, and the grazing area is carrying as much stock as the leasehold is: so that, with the rcsubdiYision that is taking place, the carrying capacity has been doublf'd. I he­lievc the Act of 1902 was brought in with the best intcmtions, but it has done a lot of injury to the State. It has locked up the lands for

·a number of years. The land is only thrown open in a piecemeal manner, yet the competi­tion for it is something enormous. For land that the Go,-ernment were only getting ~d. or 1d. from the pastoral lessee, the selectors are willing to pay 4d. or 5d. an acre. Some say

[Mr. Hamilton.

these are people from the South, who have no knowledge of the conditions of the country; but I know that many of the people who have taken up land in the Aramac district, on Rodney Downs and Bowen Downs, are old residents, and have been in the Western dis­trict for the last thirty or forty years. In reading through the difference in rentals on page 5 of the Lands Report. I find, in con­nection with the Act of 1902. it is stated-

The average rental of the lenseholdR WH.s £1 ls 1~d. per square mile, and of the resnmod lands l4s. s:d. per square mile.

That is the average rent for lnnd held under P'"•toral le·,•<e~. In the Ce:1tral districts, al­though it i < six or seven years since that Act was p::u: . .,pd, t.h·;re are n1any r~n's which have not been 3-pprlli~Prl unclPr thP Act of 1902. -t\ good n1any in the 'Vinton district are only being appr:tbed now. Now tl1P r('port show:j the a ver.lg't-' rent for grazing hrms under the Act of 1902. It says--

PrHctif'Rll~' the rents fixr1 by the Department by proclamati0n rlo not ex:cee;l 3d. per ucre.

The<t is the upsPt rental fixed by the depart­ment. I have always been opp<>secl to t'·e high

rent<tls fix-~d by thP department. [10p.m.] If thev put on" hir rmt"l, c•1d

pPnn1P lik , Gn ( {fG,r L,, re. I '· •tmld nccept their offc:r, and hold them to their ba.r­~:1in, bnt T k,.11W th:tt npsL' 1 rent.als h1.ve be"Jn as hig-( 0-1. and 4d. an acre.

:!\Ir. GRANT: Men hcLh' offered as much as 6d. an acre f(,r Ja.nd on wllich t.he upset prim_: was only 2d. an acre.

Mr. HAMILTO~\': That is so, ::md I say I would hold such people to their bargain, hut I contend that 3d. or 4d. a.n acre is too high ttn upset price.

Hun. R. 'PHILP : One pe cuy an acre is f]Uite enough.

Mr. HAMILTON: \Vhat I want to dn is to cont.rast the rents paid for pa-•toral lAoseq and grazing farrns. The report continneR-

In reRpPct of only three portions were h~ ~her rents askecl for in 190:-::l, 4d. bl~ing pt·oclaimecl for a Rm;dllot ot 2::>9 acre';: in the Ro,~ldm~npton District, ancl5d. for two lots of 2.ti:W aerf"' amll2,, SO acre.-.; in the ~pringsure and Aram'W r~:,;;trif'"~-R l'esp.:cti_· ,"-ly. Renf." ·were tendered as high ::ts 5~cl. per atTe, and reeedetl from that stn,nclard by multiple~ of au eighth. 'i'hf-~ highest (?i~d) was obt~ined in the Aramnf' Distrir~"; :)~-.in the Tn~lewood Dbtrie0; 5d. ln t}:"'. _\ram~w anti Springsure Districts; 4~:.1. in tile Aranntc IH~triet; it<;'; d. in th,; Aramnc and Ingl8\voort1H.strictP.: ·d·}d. in the Aramac District; 4-;td. in the Aram}tC and llJ~!ewood llistrkt:;;; Ltd. in the Aramuc, Hu;:rhenflPn. nnd =.:oma Districts; 3Jf1. in the In~lewood, IRh;ford, and St. George Djstricts; 3ld. in the BlackaJl, Isisfort~, awl Hnghenden Districts; 3}d. in thn t'nnmmmlht, llnghenclen, I~isford, and Homa Dis­triet~; 3d. jn tlw J.ram:t~. IIughpnctF"n Ing1ev-tnod, Sprin~nmre. and ClmrievillP Distrkt.s. 'l'hP areaselr,,·.'ted f 'weeded tbem·ea opened by 694,024 acres.

Then t.he n~port qnoteR the rents lJ(_·tid on a nun1w ber of holdings in thB Centml diHtriet, all in close proximity to railwayR, which show that the rentals recnived from the one-fonrth held as graz­ing farms genr~ra11y exceed the amounts received from the rem"inin.; tbree-fourthR, which are still held under pastnralleat1e. In the C8S8 of Roclney Downs, for in--tance, the one-fourth lv Id under the grazing fann te.11ure is £3f)8 2s. ld., whilst the three-fourths helrl nndu pastoral leaRe only yield a rental of £193 18.R. 5d. In the case of _ .. :'\. v1ngton, the rPnts rrceived fr1 1rn the gr:tzing farms compri.oed in the one-fourth re·-,umed amount to £458 12'. lOd., "nd the amount re­ceh·ed from the t hree-fonrths held under pas­toral lease is £523 4s. The report goes on to say-

If the Crown were receiving for the a.bove leaseholds rents on a parity with those of the selections on the

Address in .Reply. [3 A.t'GUST.j Addrets in .Reply. 549

resumed qnarters, the advance in the actual rents would be £20,3::14 19s. :3d. pflr annum. 'ro put it in another way, the le·"sees would pay four times their actu~l rentuls. Th::.t the weight of the above emn­p:-trisons may not be: detr:·~cl'ed_ tram by an asstHr1ption that the quarter resumption~ are of higher average quality than tlw remainder ;;f the holdings, it. may lJe we~l to direct attention to the requirement of section 18 of the Act of 1902, under which the re<:.umptlons are made, that" the average qwtlities and c··tpabilities of the resumed part are to h~·, as far as practicable, the \.<amens the average qualities and capabilities of the wbole holding."

It is argued by those who have no practical ex­perience that the areaR resumed from grazing fa .. rmR are wPrth twice RS much n..s the area left in the leaseholds. Now, there is a pro viRion in the Act whereby, if the area to be reonmed is above the averaif.e quality of th,, holding, the lesser area is taken; if it is below the average, then a larger area is taken. Bat, spm1king from practical ex­perielilce, I do not think you could Ray that either the pick m· the worst. of the iand was taken, but just a fair average. And yet \le have such an anomaly as is called attention to by the Lands Depart­ment in their report, wbme they are only getting an average of £11s. per ,,,quare mile for snme of the pick of the pastoral properties in the Centml district.

Mr. KERR: That is for the whole of Queens­land.

Mr. HAMILTON : It is only the few men­tioned in the report that are referred to, I think. I atn not going, like son1e lwn. mernbtrs, to blan1e either thA 1\1.inister or t.he Governrnent of the day for this state of bffairs, because they cannot gAt a gre:1ter rental from pastoml lease­holds, as their bands are tied by the Act. The representatives of t.he pastoral lesAees attended in the lobbies. They had their solicitor beside them, and they had all the· a C. vice they could get, and they got provisi"'" in,erted in the Act wbich not only tied tbehands"fthe Go\'ern­ment of the dav but also tied the bands of the Land Court. ·To a certain extent the Legi.,la­ture was responsible for the great disparitv between rents paid by the pastoral lE ·see and those paid by grazing farmers. \V e know very well that the Land Uonrt say, '·The Legislature never intended that the rents paid by the grazing farmer and the pastoral leBSee should be the sanY, because it provided against that by putting in a minimum for each kind of hulding. It provided that the minimum rent that can be paid for country under pastoral lea'e is 5s. per square mile, whilst it provided that the minimum rental for grazing farms for the very ""me country is over £1. Us. per square nli_lt>." The ratio of grazin~ fn..rrn rents to those of pastoral lea:::;es iti as five to one. I think that was an overoight, and I certainly do not see why there should be such a di,.parity between the two rents. \Vhv shcmld there be a minimum of 5s. per square rnil" for country held under pas­toral lease ~tnd of £1 (k per square mile for the the same country be!d under the grazing-farm tenure?

Hon. R. PHII,P: It is not the sttme country, and you know it.

Mr. HAMILTON: I am assuming that both the pastoral lessee and the graziDg farrner want the s>trne country. The former would have to pay only::;,,, wbibt the latter would have to ptty £1 6<. per square mile. Take the country on the Georgian which the hon. member took np the other day at 7s. Gd. a square mile.

Hon. R. PHILP: It has been lying vacant for years.

Mr. HAMfLTON: I know that, but, if the hon. member wanted to take up that country as a grazing farm, he would have to pay at least £1 6s. a square mile.

Hon. R. PHILP: Nobody wanted it. There is plenty of land there now that you can get for 5s. a Equare rnile.

i\rr. HA}IILTON: But if anybody wanted to take it up as a, grazing farm, he could not get it for lc.,s than £1 Gs, a. square ntile. Probably the minimums fixed in the Act have misled the Land Court. \Vhen the Supreme Court fixed ihe reats of Tbargomindah and X orley runs so we years ago, it held that the rents were not to be fixed on the basis of what tl1e commissioner thought the land was worth, or even on the baRi.s of what a 1nan was willing to pu.y, but on what it would r,ay to take it at.

Hon. R. PHILP: Isn't that a fair thing?

1\Ir. HA~~IILTOJ'\' : How does the court know that? Is not the rnan who wants to take np the country in a better pnsition to say what it is worth to him? The mflthod of assessing the rt·ntal is a wrong· one. The land corruniR.sioner is sent out to ~1.SSP'-'S the rental of a run ; he says "the le-see has heen paying so much for the country he occupies; the Crown wants to get more for that country ; I will put on so much per square n1ile." ~,hr·n the matter goes before the Land Court, and tbey split the difference between the land corn1uissicmel"s valuatjou and the rental l'reviously paid. Then, if the le,see is not satisfied, he goes to the Land ll.pptal Court, and that tribunal again splits the diJ1'erence between the Land Court's detE-rmina,Hon and the lessee's valuation. The systPm ot apptfl.hE'ITlf'nt is not founded on ft~ busi­Il~ds-like baRJ:::;, and the apvrai~ernents in conse­quence are not made on what the land is actual!y wor~b. 'l'be rccommendatiom made by the land cmnmissioners, altiJOngb a big advance on the rent.s previously paid by the lessees, are not half what could be got for the land if it was more close'y settlEd. To show that what I say is true I will quote a paragraph frum page 7 of the annual report of the Lands Department-

The effeet of the several deci.~ions of the Land Appeal Court given during 1908 w1ll be seen in detail on rt·ference to Table ll. 1'he as .. e:3sing commi!:lsiOlJers' Yalnations of the fourteen holdin;;.s propma d to inr•rease the rentals paid under the former leases by £3,'""S9 4s. 2d. per annum. The J,iLnd Court's de(~isions gave increasf's amounting;to £1,17117s. 2d. per annum O\'er the earlier rental~, or £2,717 7s. below the commissionea,' valua­tions. The decisions of the Laud Appeal Court fixed the renLds at £502 His. tiel. below the rentals formerly paid, or £1,6741:1s. Bel. lJelow tlle Land Court's determi­nations, and £-t,392 0~. 8 I. below tile ('Ornmist;inne•·s' valuations. The rr-ntals unr1er the former leases amounted to £7,602 2s. 4d. per ann urn.

'l'bat is the way the system works out.. The assessing corr1mi::;:;sioner s-:y~, "I will put on an inCl'Pa .. e of so murh,'' the L".nd Oonrt sty" \Ve will split tbe difference between the •:xisting rentnJ and tne cmnmi 8ioner's va.luatinn," and the Land Appteal Court say, "We will split the difference betwetn tht~ L~a_url Unurt 1

S determina.~ tion anrl tbe rental paid by the le,eee;" and the ultirnat8 result is tbal there i'3 verv lit de iucrease on the old rent. I know that the d~termination of the Land Court is arrived at on evidence given b,.fore t.he court, but what i~ the nature of that evidence? I have heard alesceerenmrk that he did not hke t h ~ business becaw·-,e a rr1an bad to perjure himself anti depreciate his propd'ty in order to get ti1e rent down. ~lo;.c perjury ta.kes place in a I..Ja:nd Court in cnnnectjon with the rtasl'e . .-;s. ment of rent1l" and the carrying capacit.y and prnductivt:ne~·~1 of e uutry th~1n in any crin1inal cour•c in the wmld. I L~tve read a good deal of the evidence given befon· th~, court, and I ruust eay that it appears to tHe tba the witnes.-es are vre­pared to YWMar <tuything to keep down the Tental~. I think the titne ha~ arrived when we should ask ourselves, Does the Land Court fulfil the expectations formed with regard to it when

Mr. Hamilton.]

550 Address in Reply. [.ASSEMBLY.] Ad,journwzent.

it was instituted? It was established as a judicial tribunal to decide between the landlord and the tenant, between the Crown and the le&sce, Lut it seen1s to rne that it rnE'rely exists as a buffer for the squatter that he may be able to keep cl(nvn hiH rent, a11d prevent the Crown getting- a fair and equit.able rental from the pubJi,J hnrls of the State. \Vithout doing rtny injm;tice to anybvdy, we f'Ou1d get a higher rental from our pastoral tenant.s. The f'razing farmers pay far too high "' renhl. I dn not tbi11k uny ~-.·razing farrn is \vorth 3d., 4J., or 5d. an nore, taking- one st>a~nn with f!notllm·. But there i- a f~reat disp ,ritv bet,weell the rent paid by a grazing hrmer and th ,t paid by a, pastoral les,ee.

Hon. R. l:>HILP : Y uu n:ust ren1em ber that .£HJ,OOO hns been taken off the rents of grazing farm' by the Land Conrt.

J\Tr. H~\:\IILTOX: That is true; but what 1 s~ty i:-~ that it; i~ t.irne '""8 askt>d ourt-ielvu.:;, I:.:; tht: Land Court d<>in;:; all that was expected ,)fit ? I contend that it h; not, and that. some ;.:;tep~ should be takfm to remedy existing- t"Lnmualie'l. If we gnt a fair ren~.-tl for our vnblic lands v;e cnulri afford to give cheaper rl.ilwav freight.~, and in .... o doing we Hhonld injure nobody. But under pre­sent conditions the 1\Jini~ter mav use all the machir.ery <Lt his di~pot<al to iet irwreas8d rt>ntals, and he is uncthho to do s ., b. cause the Act sc~yo he shall nut get beyond "' certain amount. \Vhenever tbe Governrnent an~ Drl:'­pan•rl to t:-tc:kle tbi~ qnest.ion seriously, they ~vill find that rrtt::rnbero on this side are willing to give then1 all the a<;;.-istanct~ in thr ir p(nver, Dtl rnatter what party mn,y c mstitnte th<1t Governrnent. Tht> Act d 1902, which was pas;ed by the GoYernrnent of thA t~on. n1ember for To>vns­ville--

;\lr. J\1.'\.Xll: Assisted bv the hon. member for Rockha,mvton. ~

Mr. HAMILTO::\: Yes; a .. "i,ted bv the two 1nen1hers for Hockh:kfll}Jton-they \Vere. the only two 1118H1hers frn1n thi.-; side who supported it.

1\Ir. CiRA~T: Nn; there wa~ another. Hon. R. PHILP: It saved the pastoral industry

of Queene!,wd. J\lr. HA:\IILTO::\: Ye,, but it went too far,

in that it tif·d up the Lnd for thirty years. l think the Governn1ent should take ~tt>p:s to wipe out the 1ninimuu1 rental. It i~ not right tl~ ,t such a diBparity ~hould exl.st bt->twe.on the Inini­IDlllll rental for p.1~toral hoLhn ;~ and the rnini­murrlrentnl for gr ·zlng farms. It i:;; mi~ltadiug to the public, c·nrl it. i,, rnioleading to the Le,nd Oonrt, as it enables the r11embers of the court to <w that the Legi"latnre never intended that the rentals should h::H->qn:~L The1ninitnun1 rental for a grAzing farm h~ £1 Gs. ~ sqn.tre rnile, and the rninimum rental for a pastoral holding 5". a squ(lre mile, "nd the 1naximun1 rental £1 r a pa,~toral holding can~ not exceed £4 10 . pt'r eqnare mile for the first tertu, nor can it lh~ rai;:'ed rrlflrG tha.n 50 per cent. 1tbove the r·'ntal for the previous period. There is no maxitnum at all for a grazing fn.rm. s()ltl8

people h1tve said, w!1y not r:dse the minimum for pastoral lease.,. to the 1ninirnum for grazing farms? I say, no; be~:•.use if you do that, you prevent a lar~e !trea of thL State being occupied-be· cause if yi!u raise the nJ.initn1U11 under which country can be held as pabtond leases, ther~-~ are thous!tnds of quare miles of country that ,, ould never be t!ti<en up. l know in my own district there is a lrtrg"~ area for which the Government; would be '""Y lucky if tlwy got 5>. a SC[uare 1nile. I n1ay say I llill nnt in favour nf rais­ing thj.~ cost, beCa,nse lnrga areas would not be occupied, but I would put the grazing farmer on th0 same b;,sis. If that country is b.;.ing opened for grazin..; farm ::;election, open it for wh!tt it is worth, the came as yon would

[Mr. Hamilton.

to pastoml lessees. I think the Secretary for Lands, whoever he may be, has a pretty tough problem before him if he is going to deal with this question. The first Lhing he has to .do will be to de!tl with the Land Oonrt, and '"k himself is that court ful· filling !tll that is expec~ed of it. 1 think anyone reading a report like this, and knowing anything at "'ll of the ruode of a'se,sments 1tncl the way runs are ?.·S"•"Ssed, \Vrmld l-gree thn.t the past·oral le· se•,., arP not giving a. f<.tir return. There are 8everal other thing8 I wished to .·!peak on, but as the hour is late l hope to say something at a later f:tatze. .......\..;; far as thi::; Government i~ con­cernt'l, I arr1 going to vote ag-ainst the carrying of this Address in Reply. I do not think this GovernnH':nt has the ('')nfidence of the ccuntry . If they bad the confi:lence <>f the conntry they would nnt b,~ afraid to g-o to the cDnntry and ask for it. \V e. know th~~ Prumit~r and othf-rs have been g0ing al)ont the country, while a n1otion of want of confidence was hRnging ov»r t.heir heads, going into tht· electoratt.s of ho11. rnembers \Yhom th<.-y knew W('re going to vote :'\,gainHt then1, and trying to intimirlate them through the electors. ThaL iR a c1 i~graceful Mtate oi things. \Vhen we see :1r Gf;vernment elingi11g to power a.s thiR Go­vernment i.s

1 or, as the junior member for 1-tnck­

ha.rnpton Bt!tted, "hanging on by the skin of their tr• th "--

OPPOSITION J\hc}InEltS : Hear, he!tr ! and Governrneut l::tugh~Pr.

Mr. Hc":UILTOI\: I sa·; the Governrnent &re in a vt ~·_,- par~ous conditin::1, and f,n· the sake of hon~,:.;.t an, clfan governrnent in the country­bec,·.n~e we kn•lw tl'" t while they bold out prnmi~~t·H nf railv;n.y·~ you cannot Pxpect clean adrnini~tr<ttion. \Vhen any Governnwnt -­wht_'·hPt' thi:'l G-,1vernment or any other-ha.r;;; to go into different e]ect'lrn,tes and prornisf~ then1 railw.Ly.;-; a; d th·~ t>xp .. ~nditlH'8 of public ntoney, von C:l.JL.ot R:ty it i.., clean arhuini.stratinn, and ~e know that 'within the last. few weeks milways have b'::'rn pron1i:-. -d that h~tve h.,:·eN refused for yc'!l's. T:o.k3 the railway to ::\larbur,. It is only a few weeks ago a 1nember of the Govern­ment went np there-they thought that the rntmber fnr the district was not too Htrong in his allE:g-iance.

An Hm:oURABLE ::'v1EliBER: He said so himself. ::\Ir. H."MI LTO?\ : He ~aid so before the

House met, and therefore the Government thought it nece~.,mry to go np there and promise a railway.

The SECRETARY FOR HAILWAYS: No, no! J\Ir. HA:\riLTON: Then the people got to·

gethe.r and told their member he would h:we to support the Government. I say the Government anc in a \ .. ery parlous condition when they have to do t:·•.tt s·•rt of thing. In the ,t,te of feeling in this Hon~t->~ and in the counl.:ry, I say it is time any Gorernment, with nny reS!Jectability, or any self·reopect e.t all, when they are in the position the prP~ent Go\·ernment i~ in- I say they should send in their resignation at once.

Government laughter and interjections. Mr. HA:YIILTON : Whether they do or

wh"ther they do not, I am g-oing to do all I possibly c!tn to make them send in their re~ignation,:;::.

OPPOSITION l'vi;:11BERS: Hear, hear! :Mr. HAMTLTON: I have a. lot of other mb­

jects I wished to ref~1· to, but, !tS the hour io l~tte, I shall conclude with these few remarks.

Mr. \VHl'rE (Musgm11e) : I beg to move the adjournment of the debate.

The resumption of the debate was made an Order of the Day for t•;·morrow.

The Hrmse adjourned at twenty·five minutes past 10 o'clock.