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TRANSCRIPT
CN
N
Mr D
ate: Janu
ary 20, 1992 T
ranscript #478
Th
e CN
N B
uild
ing, 820 F
irst Street N
E, W
ashin
gton, D
C 20002
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scripts: Jou
rnal G
raph
ics, Inc., 1535 G
rant S
treet, Den
ver, CO
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ress Con
tact: Alexan
dra C
onstan
tinop
le (202) 615-2922
Larry K
ing Live
Tip
O'N
eill on th
e State of th
e Un
ion
LA
RR
Y K
ING
H
ost
Guest:
TH
OM
AS P
. O'N
EIL
L, F
ormer Speaker of the H
ouse
Senior Executive P
roducer T
AM
AR
A H
AD
DA
D
4
Copyright 0
1992 C
able N
ews N
etwork
, Inc. A
LL
RIG
HT
S R
ES
ER
VE
D. T
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t may n
ot be p
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ermission
. Con
dition
of u
se: credit C
NN
's Larry K
ing L
ive for the u
se of excerpts,
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LA
RR
Y K
ING
LIV
E T
ranscrip
t #478 A
ir Date: Jan
uary 20, 1992
Tip
O'N
eill on th
e State of th
e Un
ion
AN
NO
UN
CE
R: W
elcome to L
arry Kin
g Live. T
onigh
t: Mr. S
peak
er — T
ip
O'N
eill. Th
e Boston
Irishm
an w
ho m
ade a career as th
e man
of the H
ouse
sets his legen
dary p
olitical sights on
the cu
rrent scen
e. Now
, here's L
arry K
ing. L
AR
RY
KIN
G: G
ood even
ing. W
e're back
in W
ashin
gton after last n
ight's
town
forum
in P
ittsbu
rgh an
d a w
eek in
Los A
ngeles. W
e hop
e you en
joyed
all that p
rogramm
ing. W
e're back
in th
e friend
ly confin
es of our stu
dios in
A
merica's capital city, the D
istrict of Colum
bia. A
qu
ick n
ote: Tom
orrow n
ight w
e're going to d
o a major story an
d p
ro-gram
dealin
g with
breast im
plan
ts, and
Wed
nesd
ay nigh
t Cyb
ill Sh
eph
erd
will b
e with
us.
Som
etimes it's h
ard to b
elieve anyon
e else could
call the H
ouse to ord
er. T
ip O
'Neill n
o longer m
akes th
e trains ru
n on
time on
Cap
itol Hill, b
ut h
e's su
ch an
icon —
such
a symb
ol of Govern
men
t for the p
eople —
it's as if he
still rum
bles th
rough
those h
alls. Lik
e Con
gress itself, the m
an is h
earty, ru
mp
led, en
tertainin
g, passion
ate, and
never ab
ove a good rh
ub
arb. W
hen
P
residen
t Bu
sh aw
arded
him
the P
residen
tial Med
al of Freed
om tw
o mon
ths
ago, he called
Tip
O'N
eill a tough
partisan
. Far m
ore imp
ortant, h
e is a true
patriot. H
e'll be w
ith u
s for the fu
ll hou
r tonigh
t. We'll b
e takin
g your p
hon
e calls, if you
wan
t to talk w
ith on
e of the legen
dary figu
res in A
merican
politi-
cal history — the H
onorable Tip O
'Neill.
An
d on
this very au
spiciou
s occasion, th
e birth
day of M
artin L
uth
er Kin
g, Jr. —
I kn
ow you
kn
ew h
im.
TH
OM
AS
P. O
'NE
ILL
, Form
er Sp
eaker of th
e Hou
se: I remem
ber I w
as th
ere for the great sp
eech th
at he m
ade an
d
never forget it, eith
er, be-
cause it w
as a tremen
dou
sly hot su
mm
er's day. A
nd
Jim O
'Hara from
De-
troit and
Jim R
oosevelt, wh
o were m
emb
ers of Con
gress, got a bu
s, and
abou
t 25 of u
s wen
t dow
n an
d w
e sat right to th
e left of him
as you look
up
. He
came over an
d sh
ook h
and
s with
all of us. I've h
eard a m
illion sp
eeches in
m
y life and
"I H
ave a Dream
" —
Th
at was th
e greatest that I've ever h
eard.
Th
at was a b
eautifu
l, beau
tiful sp
eech.
KIN
G: W
ere you in
volved in
mak
ing h
is birth
day a n
ational h
oliday?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Very, very m
uch
so. I was S
peak
er of the H
ouse w
hen
that
. was m
ade an
d C
oretta came in
to see me. N
ow, th
e qu
estion on
how
we w
ere goin
g to get it mad
e—
ICIN
G: B
y the w
ay, by ask
ing "
very involved
," som
etimes a S
peak
er can b
e very in
volved in
someth
ing an
d som
etimes h
e can—
M
r. O'N
EIL
L: W
ell, I was very in
volved in
this on
e. Th
e qu
estion w
as—T
here w
as no q
uestion
we cou
ld p
ass the b
ill. It was h
ow you
get the ru
le on
to the floor. If you
get the ru
le to the floor w
ith an
open
rule, th
en th
ey cou
ld attach
all types of am
end
men
ts aroun
d it an
d it w
ould
kill it. If you
b
rough
t it in w
ith a closed
rule th
at no am
end
men
ts could
be offered
to it, w
hich
the R
ules C
omm
ittee did
at her b
ehest an
d m
y beh
est— It p
assed an
d
becam
e the legal h
oliday.
KIN
G: A
re you su
rprised
that A
rizona as a state still d
oesn't celeb
rate it? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: Y
es, I really am, to b
e perfectly tru
thfu
l. It's kin
d of sm
all on
their p
art. I don
't thin
k th
at there's—
I don
't thin
k it's racial. I th
ink
it's stu
bb
ornn
ess right n
ow m
ore than
anyth
ing else. B
ut as a factor for th
e state, it m
ust b
e costing th
em m
illions of d
ollars. It's stup
id.
KIN
G: D
id you
watch
last nigh
t's town
meetin
g?
— 2 —
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: I loved it. I ab
solutely loved
it. I've got to tell you, it b
rough
t b
ack m
emories of m
e of 40 years ago. Forty years ago, I w
as speak
er of the
hou
se in M
assachu
setts. Th
e teleph
one ran
g, I'm in
my office, an
d it's G
ener-
al MacA
rthu
r calling from
Japan
— an
d I cou
ldn
't believe it. M
emb
ers of the
Japan
ese Diet w
ere in M
assachu
setts to stud
y dem
ocracy and
they w
ent to
the B
oston city cou
ncil. O
ne of th
e mem
bers of th
e coun
cil, his eon
had
been
k
illed, an
d h
e ordered
the Jap
anese D
iet mem
bers ou
t of the ch
amb
er. An
d
they carried
a big h
eadlin
e in Jap
an h
ow th
ey were reb
uffed
in B
oston.
MacA
rthu
r called m
e. He said
, "W
ill you tak
e them
into th
e legislature?"
H
e said, "
Wou
ld you
tell them
abou
t town
meetin
gs?" S
o we took
them
for a w
eek an
d every d
ay we tau
ght th
em h
ow you
operate a govern
men
t and
how
you
operate a legislatu
re and
how
parliam
entary p
rocedu
re work
ed, an
d
every nigh
t we took
them
to town
meetin
gs. W
ell, some of th
em w
ere open
town
meetin
gs and
some of th
em w
ere those
town
meetin
gs that m
emb
ers from each
precin
ct— b
ut 1 h
ad a w
eek w
ith
them
and
I saw tow
n m
eetings. A
nd
it brou
ght m
e back
. Th
ere's noth
ing
like th
e good old
town
meetin
g. It originated
in M
assachu
setts. An
d you
did
a great job
last nigh
t. K
ING
: Th
ank
you.
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Th
at was a b
eautifu
l program
. K
ING
: Th
ey get up
and
sing it ou
t, too. M
r. O'N
EIL
L: Y
es, that w
as great. K
ING
: We've got a lot of issu
es to discu
ss, bu
t one I w
anted
to men
tion to
you =
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Su
re. K
ING
: —b
ecau
se Tip
was m
entio
nin
g to
me b
efore w
e beg
an
that h
e w
atched
Govern
or and
Mrs. C
onn
ally and
Fran
k M
ank
iewicz last w
eek d
is- cu
ss JFK
and
the even
ts of Novem
ber 22n
d, 1963.
An
d I k
now
that you
hold
the seat—
Th
e seat you h
eld in
Con
gress was
the seat th
at John
Fitzgerald
Ken
ned
y held
. You
kn
ow h
im sin
ce he w
as a b
oy. Wh
at do you
thin
k h
app
ened
that d
ay? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: W
ell, two w
eeks b
efore he w
ent—
K
ING
: By th
e way, d
id you
see the m
ovie? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: N
o, I haven
't seen th
e movie an
d, really, I h
ave no d
esire to see th
e movie. A
bou
t two w
eeks b
efore he w
ent d
own
to Texas I w
as visiting
him
and
we w
ere talkin
g abou
t the p
rogram, h
ow th
ings w
ere going in
the
Hou
se. Th
ings w
eren't goin
g good in
the H
ouse, as a m
atter of fact. He in
th
is conversation
said to m
e, "Y
ou k
now
, my n
omin
ee— th
e nom
inee w
ill be
Gold
water an
d h
e'd b
ring u
s into w
ar." I said
, "Jack
, wh
at are we in
now
, M
r. Presid
ent?"
He said
, "N
o, no, I'm
going to b
ring th
e troops h
ome as soon
as th
e election is over."
K
ING
: He d
efinitely said
that?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Oh
, no q
uestion
abou
t it. I pu
t it in m
y book
and
, as a matter
of fact, there w
ere those p
eople th
at qu
estioned
it. Now
they h
ave records
wh
ere he w
rote to the U
.N. an
d th
ey have fou
nd
records th
at he in
tend
ed to
do th
at. K
ING
: Did
you fear h
is going to T
exas? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: I feared
him
going to T
exas. I said, "
It's ridicu
lous."
He said
, "
I've got to straighten
out th
e party d
own
there."
He said
, "T
here's a d
if-ference betw
een—" oh, I can't think of the old senator's nam
e—
KIN
G: Y
arborough. M
r. O'N
EIL
L: Y
arborough, who w
as a good friend—
KIN
G: G
overnor C
onn
ally den
ied th
at. He said
he w
as there—
M
r. O'N
EIL
L: W
ell, that's w
hat Jack
said to m
e. Th
e Presid
ent said
to me,
"T
here's p
roblem
s betw
een C
onn
ally and
Yarb
orough
," an
d h
e said, "
I've got
—3—
to straighten
them
out."
Well, an
yway, I rem
emb
er the d
ay. Of cou
rse, eve-ryb
ody rem
emb
ers the d
ay and
wh
ere they w
ere. I was in
my office in
Boston
an
d C
athy O
'Brien
, one of th
e other con
gressman
's secretaries, came ru
nn
ing
in. S
he h
ad a w
ord for m
e. Sh
e said, "
I heard
the P
residen
t was sh
ot. I can't
believe it."
I called th
e Boston
Globe.
I said, "
Let m
e speak
to Bob
Healy,"
an
d th
e girl said, "Is th
is you, T
ip?"
I said, "
Yes."
Sh
e started to cry. S
he
says, "H
e's dead
. He's b
een sh
ot." A
nd
so never forget it.
I always b
elieved th
e Warren
report. I talk
ed to Jerry F
ord ab
out it. I
talked
to Hale B
oggs abou
t it. Th
ere was n
o qu
estion, O
ne d
ay I said to
Hale-- I rem
emb
er readin
g a piece in
the p
aper th
ey had
foun
d a stray b
ul-
let. He said
, "T
hat's p
robab
ly so," b
ut h
e said, "
Th
ere's no q
uestion
." H
e says, "
Th
e auth
enticity of th
e Warren
report is ab
solutely correct."
W
ell, a coup
le of years later, Ken
ny O
'Don
nell ran
for governor. I w
as w
ith E
dd
ie McC
ormick
and
he—
Ed
die M
cCorm
ick d
efeated h
im for th
e n
omin
ation q
uite easily an
d h
e had
the d
ebt of $50,000 or $60,000. W
ell, I w
as a fun
draiser an
d I w
as a leadin
g figure in
the p
arty in B
oston an
d M
as-sa
chu
setts in th
ose d
ay
s. So
me o
f my
friend
s cam
e to m
e an
d th
ey sa
id,
"P
oor Ken
ny. H
e owes $60,000. C
an you
help
him
out of th
e mesa?"
So w
e ran
a fun
draiser, got h
im off h
is $60,000 — straigh
tened
it out.
Th
at nigh
t we w
ent to Jim
my's for su
pp
er. Ken
ny O
'Don
nell an
d h
is wife,
Dave P
owers an
d h
is wife, m
y Millie, L
eo Deal an
d h
is wife, an
d Joe M
aloney
and
his w
ife. An
d in
the con
versation w
e started to talk
abou
t wh
at hap
-p
ened
dow
n th
ere in D
allas and
Ken
ny said
, "I w
as in th
e sixth car w
ith
Dave,"
KIN
G: H
e was.
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: An
d h
e said, "
I'll always rem
emb
er." H
e said, "
Th
ere was a
bu
llet came over th
e fence. A
bu
llet came over th
e fence."
An
d D
ave said,
"I'm
absolu
tely in agreem
ent w
ith you
." I said
, "Y
ou d
idn
't say that in
the
Warren
report."
I said, "
You
did
n't say th
at in th
e Warren
report."
I said,
"Y
ou d
enied
it. You
said th
ere was on
ly one b
ullet."
He said
, "T
he F
BI cam
e to u
s. Th
ey asked
us to tell th
at story. Th
ey did
n't w
ant to d
isrup
t the fam
-ily."
I said—
K
ING
: Now
wait a m
inu
te. If that's tru
e then
—
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: W
ell, no, w
ait a min
ute. N
o, let me tell you
the rest of th
e story. S
o Dave said
, "A
bsolu
tely, a bu
llet came over th
e fence. T
he F
BI said
to u
s, 'No, you
heard
echoes. T
here w
as only on
e bu
llet. An
d d
on't u
pset th
e fam
ily'." S
o he said
, "I w
ent in
and
testified."
I said, "
I never w
ould
have
testified th
at way in
a million
years. I'd h
ave told th
em w
hat I th
ough
t I saw
, or wh
at I thou
ght I h
eard."
A
nyw
ay, it gets back
— I'm
writin
g the b
ook again
and
I call Dave on
the
teleph
one. I said
, "D
ave, I'm goin
g to pu
t in m
y book
on th
e chap
ter on K
en-
nedy our conversation
with
Ken
ny an
d you
. How
do you
feel abou
t it?" H
e said
, "T
ip, I say th
e same th
ing tod
ay I said th
at nigh
t. Th
at's in op
position
to w
hat I said
to the F
BI. N
o qu
estion I heard a bullet shot over the—
" K
ING
: Th
en w
hy d
on't you
wan
t to—
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: So from
that tim
e on, I alw
ays believed
that th
ere was a con
- sp
iracy and
I always b
elieved th
at there w
as someb
ody else—
K
ING
: Th
en w
hy d
on't you
wan
t to see the m
ovie? M
r. O'N
EIL
L:
—an
d, as a m
atter of fact, Con
gressman
Stok
es did
a pretty
good job. K
ING
: You
app
ointed
that com
mittee, righ
t? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: I d
id. I ap
poin
ted it.
KIN
G: S
tokes h
eaded
it. M
r. O'N
EIL
L: T
hat's right. K
ING
: S
tokes n
ow h
as said, "
Let's release all th
e materials."
Do you
agree
— 4 —
with that'?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Well, I'm
for that. I'm
for that.
KIN
G: A
ll right. W
hy d
on't you
go see the m
ovie? M
r. O'N
EIL
L:
I just—
You
kn
ow, every tim
e I see on television
the P
resi-d
ent gettin
g hit I get sick
. I had
a love and
an affection
for the m
an an
d I—
KIN
G: S
o you can
't go emotion
ally? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: I just can't—
I just, really, I can't go emotionally.
KIN
G: Y
ou b
elieve there w
as a plot?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: O
h, th
ere's no q
uestion
that h
e did
n't d
o it by h
imself in
my
opin
ion.
KIN
G: W
e'll get a break
and
come b
ack an
d talk
politics w
ith T
ip O
'Neill,
and
then
take you
r ph
one calla. H
e's with
us for th
e full h
our. T
his is L
arry K
ing L
ive. Don
't go away.
[Com
mercial break]
KIN
G: T
his is L
arry Kin
g Live in
Wash
ington
. Ou
r guest for th
e full h
our is
Tip
O'N
eill. In a little w
hile, w
e'll be goin
g to your p
hon
e calls. O
K, a n
ew p
oll, CB
S p
oll, out tod
ay said B
ush
's app
roval rating —
Presi-
den
t Bu
sh's ap
proval ratin
g — is at 45 p
ercent; an
un
nam
ed D
emocrat w
ould b
eat him
, bu
t nam
ed D
emocrats still lose. H
ow d
o you assess th
e presid
en-
tial pictu
re today?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: I'd say sin
ce they started
pollin
g back
in th
e 40'e I've been
an
avid p
otter myself. I go to C
hicago. I go to D
enver. I ask
the taxicab
driver; I
ask th
e waiter; I ask
the elevator op
erator; I ask—
K
ING
: The O
'Neill poll.
Mr., O
'NE
ILL
: T
he O
'Neill p
oll. I'm in
Boston
the oth
er day. I said
to a taxicab
driver, "
Wh
at do you
hear?"
See, you
don
't wan
t to ask h
im h
is op
inion
. You
wan
t to kn
ow w
hat h
e hears. H
e said, "
If the election
were
tomorrow
," he said, "Bush couldn't w
in." K
ING
: Couldn't w
in? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: C
ould
n't w
in. A
nd
he said
—
KIN
G: A
gainst an
ybod
y? M
r. O'N
EIL
L:
—h
e said, "
Everyb
ody th
at gets into m
y cab —
wh
ether th
ey com
e from C
hicago, In
dian
apolis, n
o matter w
here th
ey come from
— I al-
ways ask
them
." H
e said, "
It's a conversation
piece."
He said
, "T
he P
residen
t couldn't w
in." Well, that's one cab driver and I've asked probably—
K
ING
: Bu
t that is n
ot wh
at you w
ould
have h
eard a year ago.
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Oh, m
y golly, after all., you've got to think that just a year ago th
is time at th
e end
of the P
ersian G
ulf h
e was 78 p
ercent. W
e could
n't get
anyb
ody even
thin
kin
g of run
nin
g against h
im.
KIN
G: D
o you th
ink
he's b
eatable?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Yes, he's beatable, and he's beatable—
K
ING
: Not b
y any can
did
ate, thou
gh?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Well, h
e could
be b
eaten b
y any can
did
ate if it were im
med
i-ately. H
e's got to straighten
thin
gs out. I u
sed to call it th
e "b
elly issue."
P
eople call it th
e "p
ocketb
ook issu
e." It's th
e same th
ing: H
ow's everyth
ing
going? Y
ou k
now
, there's n
o confid
ence in
the A
merican
peop
le today. Y
ou
• need a n
ew refrigerator? Y
ou're n
ot going to b
uy a n
ew refrigerator. "
Th
e fellow
next d
oor lost his job
. We can
't afford it. W
e've got to hold
on."
A n
ew
car-
KIN
G:
Wh
y aren't th
ey? It's befu
dd
ling a lot of p
eople. W
hy aren
't they
buying the refrigerator? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: W
ell, because—
KIN
G: T
hey d
on't h
ave faith?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Becau
se they h
aven't got an
y faith. T
hey've lost con
fiden
ce.
— 5 —
4
KIN
G: A
nd what did that?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Well, it's a com
bination of things that did it, as I analyze it. T
he President did a m
agnificent job on foreign affairs on the Persian G
ulf. I rem
ember I w
as in the hospital and he called me. It w
as six days before the w
ar. And I said, "I w
ant you to know, M
r. President, as a D
emocrat I'm
with
yo
u. I th
ink
yo
u're d
oin
g th
e righ
t thin
g." I said
, "I just th
ink
it's great th
e w
ay you put the United N
ations together — all of them
." I said, "I'm a firm
believer in the U
nited Nations. T
hey've put out so many squalls around the
world. T
hey've fed the hunger. They've done so m
uch good and they don't get credit for it." A
nd I said, "If you don't go in after putting the United N
a-tions on the line the w
ay you have, it's the end of the United N
ations—"
KIN
G: N
o, but what—
M
r. O'N
EIL
L: "—
and I just think it's wrong."
KIN
G: T
he question was w
hat went w
rong with the w
ay we—
M
r. O'N
EIL
L: W
hat w
ent w
rong w
as every
body w
as jubilan
t. Every
body
was happy. H
e closed the gates and he— or he opened the gates and he al-
lowed them
to escape. A year later now
, Saddam
is in as good shape as he w
as before we w
ent there. He has no problem
s. K
ING
: Well, he's gotten a pretty beat-up country.
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: He's got.—
It's easier to straighten out a beat-up country than it is to straighten the econom
y of a nation. And they're thinking, "W
ell, you know
, here we are w
ith Hussein —
Hussein, S
addam —
whom
we didn't go
after, and at th
e same tim
e we sh
ould
hav
e been
doin
g so
meth
ing in
the
US
SR
with the 12 countries over there. W
e were paying attention for a per-
iod of time w
hen we should have been looking at R
ussia, and we should have
been looking at the economy at hom
e." T
he man appears to the public that he has no concern and no care of w
hat is happening dom
estically. Now
, he's a beautiful guy — let m
e tell you that —
and he's got an awful lot of friends out there, but right now
the economy is
so bad and he's got so many problem
s— H
e's got to make sure that that R
us-sian
situatio
n is straig
hten
ed o
ut th
at it just d
oesn
't fall apart o
ver th
ere. A
nd only Am
erica, as the leader, is the one that can keep on top of that. K
ING
: You know
New
Ham
pshire. M
r. O'N
EIL
L: Y
es, I know N
ew H
ampshire, sure.
KIN
G: I know
. What w
ill Buchanan do there? H
ow w
ill he do? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: W
ell, I just th
ink
, the w
ay it's g
oin
g, th
at Pat's g
oin
g to
get
somew
here between 30 and 40 percent.
KIN
G: W
ould
that b
e regard
ed as-
• Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Oh, y
es, that—
Well, it'll b
e a slap in
the face to
the P
resi-dent. K
ING
: If he gets over 30? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: If he gets over 30, yes. It'll be a slap in the face for—
K
ING
: Who's going to w
in the Dem
ocratic? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: W
ell, the n
ewsp
apers, o
f cou
rse, wan
t Clin
ton
. No
w, I'v
e talk
ed to
peo
ple th
at hav
e been
up
there —
Bo
ston
writers an
d B
osto
n
pollsters—
KIN
G: W
hat do you hear? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: —
and friends, and they say, "Watch out for the T
songas vote up there." T
songas lives in Low
ell and, of course, if you're from C
alifornia you don't realize that it's a border tow
n. K
ING
: But that w
ould be a surprise—
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: In Low
ell, Tsongas is quite a pow
er up there. To m
ost of the people in Iow
a or Alaska, they don't realize that L
owell is the next tow
n and the L
owell S
un
— th
at he's b
een th
e darlin
g o
f the L
ow
ell Sun th
rough h
is political career; that the people in southern N
ew H
ampshire read it and he's
— 6 —
an institution up there. I'll be surprised if he doesn't run nip-and-tuck with
Clinton.
KIN
G: W
ere you sad that Cuom
o did not get in? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: O
h, absolutely. I was a C
uomo m
an all the way. W
ould have been the greatest thing that could have happened to the nation. Y
ou would
have had a man w
ho could really talk the philosophy of our Governm
ent, who
is a true Dem
ocrat, who handles the m
icrophone, who handles the m
edia. It w
ould have been a beautiful thing for the nation. K
ING
: We'll be right back w
ith former S
peaker of the House T
ip O'N
eill -m
ore questions, a lot of phone calls. Don't go aw
ay. P
residen
t GE
OR
GE
BU
SH
: [Dover, N
ew H
am
psh
ire; January 1
5, 1
992]
If I'd h
ave listen
ed to
the lead
er of th
e United
States S
enate, G
eorg
e M
itchell, Saddam
Hussein w
ould be in Saudi A
rabia and you'd be paying 20 bucks a gallon for gasoline. N
ow, try that one on for size!
[Appla
use]
I'm g
etting sick
and tired
— I am
— ev
ery sin
gle n
ight h
earing o
ne o
f these carping little liberal D
emocrats jum
ping all over my you-know
-what
— and I can't w
ait for this campaign! [A
pplause) [C
omm
ercial break] K
ING
: Our g
uest —
form
er Sp
eaker o
f the H
ou
se, Tip
O'N
eill. In a little
while, w
e'll be going to your phone calls. W
hat do you think of Governor C
linton? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: W
ell, the only time I ever m
et Clinton, I w
as chairman of the
'80 convention and the day after the convention you have a kickoff dinner, an
d h
e was th
e prin
cipal sp
eaker. H
e was g
ov
erno
r at that p
articular tim
e. A
nd h
e was an
amazin
g sp
eaker. T
hat's th
e on
ly tim
e I ever m
et him
. He
got defeated two years later and then, of course, he cam
e back. I recall him
as an eloquent orator. He's not a T
ip O'N
eill Dem
ocrat, if you w
ant to know the truth, you know
, because I'm the old-fashioned type. I'm
a T
om H
arkin man, to be perfectly truthful, and—
K
ING
: You'd like H
arkin—
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: I like H
arkin
. As I an
alyze H
arkin
— an
d I'm
talkin
g w
ith
the people from N
ew H
ampshire —
he's not going to do as well as he should
have done up there. When C
uomo m
ade his announcement he took a 10-day
vacation. He should have m
oved right into New
Ham
pshire and he should have got that vote that C
uomo w
as going to get. K
ING
: Is Clinton going to be the nom
inee? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: W
ell, the n
ewsp
apers w
ant h
im. H
e's a frontru
nner rig
ht
now.
KIN
G: W
ell, you keep saying that. Why do you think that is?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Well, I d
on't u
nderstan
d it, b
ut h
e is-- Apparen
tly, h
e's got
quite a bit of money and there's no question that K
errey is coming along, but
if you would ask m
e—
KIN
G: R
ight now—
M
r. O'N
EIL
L: —
you know, I'd have to say C
linton. But it's an off-the-cuff
guess. IC
ING
: The story on V
ice President Q
uayle in the Wash
ingto
n P
ost, w
hich everyone w
as expecting to be an attack, turned out to be rather favorable. M
r. O'N
EIL
L: [laughs] It sure did.
KIN
G: B
y two tough w
riters. Has Q
uayle moved up in your estim
ation? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: W
ell—
KIN
G: C
ome on—
M
r. O'N
EIL
L: —
he's a hell of a golfer. If you saw him
in the Hope yester-
day — H
e can really hit a golf ball. K
ING
: Maybe the best that ever served—
M
r. O'N
EIL
L; H
e's a very personable fellow and I think he's grow
n through
—7—
Me y
ears. anousa s say
, is ne p
ressaentsai tim
bre( N
ot in
the ey
es ol th
e A
merican
peop
le, he's n
ot presid
ential tim
bre. W
ould
he ever b
e Presid
ent?
You
can't tell th
at, bu
t I wou
ld say th
at he's got a lon
g tough
road ah
ead of
him.
KIN
G: T
he S
up
reme C
ourt is goin
g to decid
e mayb
e tomorrow
wh
ether to
hear th
e Pen
nsylvan
ia law w
hich
could
brin
g Roe versu
s Wade b
ack in
to the
court. T
hey're exp
ected to th
row R
oe versu
s Wade ou
t. Is that goin
g to be a
big issu
e? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: It's alw
ays a 3-percen
t issue.
KIN
G: M
eanin
g? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: M
eanin
g that n
o matter w
here you
go— Isolated
issues of
that typ
e are wh
at we look
at in th
e state. Th
at's a 3-percen
t issue. A
3-p
ercent issu
e can reelect you
or it can d
efeat you. It d
efeated Joh
n C
ulver
Dip
?) in Iow
a. It defeated
the fellow
that took
his p
lace afterward
s, becau
se it tu
rned
ou
t to b
e ab
ou
t a 5
-percen
t issue th
ere. In a
n electio
n fo
r the
presid
ency of th
e Un
ited S
tates that's really close, it's a factor. B
ut th
ere are oth
er issues, too, th
at are 3-percen
t issues alon
g the lin
e. K
ING
: Con
gressional lim
itations —
Th
e pu
blic seem
s to favor it. M
r. O'N
EIL
L: N
o qu
estion ab
out it —
the w
orst thin
g that w
e could
ab-
solutely d
o. You
wou
ldn
't elect a presid
ent of a com
pan
y, you w
ould
n't p
ut a
man
on th
e board
and
kn
ock h
im off in eigh
t years. Just w
hen
they're learn
-in
g the rop
es, wh
en th
ey're learnin
g wh
at the n
ation's all ab
out, w
hen
they're
learnin
g the p
roblem
s that com
e before th
eir comm
ittee, you're goin
g to rem
ove them?
I have b
een 50 years in
pu
blic life —
seen th
is coun
try in so m
any storm
s —
and
I'm tellin
g you, w
hen
there's a storm
out th
ere I wan
t an old
oak, n
ot a you
ng sap
ling th
at'll wave in
the b
reeze. I thin
k it's th
e worst th
ing, b
ut 30
years ago we w
ent th
rough
the sam
e thin
g. K
ING
: How
man
y recessions h
ave you lived
throu
gh?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Well, th
e nation
's been
throu
gh 40 recession
s, you k
now
. K
ING
: As a n
ation.
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: As a n
ation, an
d, w
ell, of course I w
as in th
e great recession
and
we h
ad a recession
un
der E
isenh
ower. W
e had
a recession u
nd
er Jack
Ken
ned
y. I prob
ably lived
throu
gh six or seven
. K
ING
: Th
is one's lastin
g longer, th
ough
, isn't it?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: No, n
othin
g like th
e '30 recession—
K
ING
: Oh
, of course, b
ut th
at was th
e Dep
ression.
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Th
at was th
e Dep
ression. Y
es, this is a—
An
d h
ow are you
goin
g to turn
it aroun
d? Y
ou're goin
g to turn
it aroun
d on
ly wh
en th
ere's con-
fiden
ce in th
e Am
erican p
eople.
KIN
G: H
ow is you
r health
? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: M
y health
is pretty good
. I've got a bit of a d
ry mou
th. I took
rad
iation all su
mm
er. K
ING
: For can
cer? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: F
or cancer.
KIN
G: D
id it lick
it? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: A
nd
the d
octor told m
e only th
e other d
ay — yes, F
riday -
he said
, "Y
ou're n
ot going to d
ie of cancer."
Mak
es me feel p
retty good.
[laugh
s] K
ING
: Yes. H
ow old
are you n
ow, T
ip?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: I'll be 80 m
y next b
irthd
ay in D
ecemb
er. K
ING
: Do you
miss th
e hu
nt?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Oh
, say, I'm en
joying m
yself, you k
now
. I do a little w
riting,
do a little ad
vertising-
— 8 —
KIN
G: I've seen.
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: —d
id a p
rogram for th
e Ch
ristian S
cience M
onitor, d
o some
writin
g. I'll be at W
ashin
gton an
d L
ee Un
iversity March
6th an
d th
e Un
iver-sity of P
ittsbu
rgh M
arch 16th
— p
robab
ly mak
e 10 or 12 speech
es in th
e cou
rse of the year. I'm
enjoyin
g myself. I k
eep m
y min
d active. T
hat's th
e m
ost imp
ortant th
ing.
KIN
G: Y
ou p
robab
ly also have, fran
kly, m
ore mon
ey than
you've ever h
ad in
your life. M
r. O'N
EIL
L: O
h, n
o qu
estion ab
out th
at. It's un
believab
le. K
ING
: Isn't th
at a little strange, to h
ave it at 80? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: [la
ug
hs] M
y wife w
as qu
ite up
set with
me w
hen
she saw
the
last ad I d
id, to b
e perfectly tru
thfu
l. I said, "
Hon
ey, you w
eren't u
pset w
hen
you
pu
t the ch
eck in
the b
ank
." [la
ug
hs] M
illie, my w
ife— M
illie will b
e very m
uch
up
set wh
en I get h
ome for h
aving m
ention
ed th
at. K
ING
: You don't feel you're low
ering yourself doing comm
ercials? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: I've got a n
ew career out th
ere. No, it's a n
ew career.
KIN
G: H
ey! It's Am
erican!
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Ab
solutely. I've d
one ab
out 10 of th
em an
d I've en
joyed
them
. K
ING
: Let's tak
e some calls for T
ip O
'Neill.
Rye, N
ew Y
ork, hello. 1st C
AL
LE
R: [R
ye, New
York) M
r. O'N
eill, I've admired you for a long tim
e. I m
iss you. Y
ou're a colorfu
l man
, bu
t you sou
nd
like a m
an o
f integ
rity. I
wish
you w
ell in you
r retiremen
t. M
r. O'N
EIL
L: T
han
k you
. 1st C
AL
LE
R•
I wan
t to ask you
a qu
estion. T
he D
emocrats h
ave been
out
now
for two P
residen
ts. Th
ey were d
efeated b
y men
wh
o really did
not h
ave a great history of law
making or—
K
ING
: Wh
at's the q
uestion
? 1st C
AL
LE
R•
Th
e qu
estion
is the D
emo
crats h
av
e lost th
e lab
or v
ote,
they've lost the South, they've lost th
e religious righ
t. Wh
at are you goin
g to h
ave to do to get th
at back
, to get back
in th
e Wh
ite Hou
se? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: W
ell, you k
now
, everythin
g you've said
is absolu
tely true.
Th
at's an am
azing th
ing. P
eople say to m
e, "W
hat's h
app
ened
to the D
emo-
crats?" an
d I say, w
ell, of course, w
e have 268 m
emb
ers in th
e Hou
se, a b
ig p
lurality. W
e've got 57 senators, or 58 sen
ators — b
ig plu
rality. Tw
enty-
eight of the governors —
a big plurality. We control—
I thin
k it's 32 of th
e legislatu
res—
KIN
G: Y
ou ju
st don
't win
the p
residen
cy. M
r. O'N
EIL
L: B
ut w
e still don
't win
the p
residen
cy. Wh
en I w
as Sp
eaker of
the H
ouse —
and
I wou
ld say every sp
eaker alon
g, and
wh
ether you
're the
Presid
ent of th
e Sen
ate or Sp
eaker of th
e Hou
se — you
're more in
terested -
and
the D
emocrats h
ave always b
een m
ore interested
— in
seeing th
at they
control th
e Con
gress, seeing th
at they con
trol the S
enate.
KIN
G: L
et me get a b
reak. W
e'll pick
right u
p on
that. O
ur gu
est is the
Sp
eaker of th
e Hou
se — th
e former, th
e always S
peak
er — T
ip O
'Neill.
Sp
eaker F
oley wou
ld agree im
med
iately. Don
't go away.
(Com
mercial break]
KIN
G: O
ur gu
est, the H
onorab
le Tip
O'N
eill — th
e win
ner of a freed
om
award from
President B
ush — the form
er Speaker of the House.
An
d w
e go back
to the calls. C
harleston
, West V
irginia, h
ello. 2n
d C
AL
LE
R: [C
ha
rleston
, West V
irgin
ia]
Mr. O
'Neill, it's a
plea
sure
speak
ing w
ith you
. Do you
thin
k th
at Mr. B
ush
will b
egin a n
ew w
ar with
Iraq for political reasons? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: O
h, n
o, I don
't believe th
at at all. As a m
atter of fact, I thin
k
—9
—
he m
ade a m
istake in
Iraq —
and
I was w
ith h
im all th
e way. I ju
st don
't th
ink
he sh
ould
have closed
the d
oors. I thin
k h
e shou
ld h
ave trapp
ed th
e arm
y and
brok
en th
e spirit of Iraq
. Sad
dam
today is th
e leader of th
e nation
an
d I d
on't th
ink
anyb
ody is goin
g to take h
im ou
t from w
ithin
, wh
ich every-
body seems to be hoping for.
KIN
G: Y
ou th
ink
he stop
ped
the w
ar too soon?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Oh
, I thin
k h
e stopp
ed th
e war too soon
, sure. I th
ink
they
wou
ld h
ave surren
dered
en m
asse, had
he n
ot given th
em th
e out to escap
e. K
ING
: To G
amb
rills, Marylan
d —
Hello.
3rd C
AL
LE
R: [G
ambrills, M
aryland]
Hello. L
et's have som
e more tow
n
meetin
gs there, L
arry. K
ING
: Th
ank
you.
9rd C
AL
LE
R. M
r. Sp
eaker, you
weren
't the on
ly mem
ber of C
apitol H
ill th
at Ken
ned
y said h
e was goin
g to with
draw
from V
ietnam
. How
do you
an-
swer th
e historian
s wh
o say now
that th
ere is no h
istorical eviden
ce that h
e w
as with
draw
ing an
d th
at it was a gim
mick
or a pu
blic relation
s ploy?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Well, th
at's v
ery in
teresting. M
ost o
f them
have tu
rned
arou
nd
on th
at sub
ject. I recall wh
en m
y book
first came ou
t four years ago
there w
as qu
ite a do ab
out it an
d th
ey said, "
Well, w
e don
't find
any evid
ence
of Tip
O'N
eill— W
hy w
ould
he in
a conversation
with
Tip
brin
g up
someth
ing
of that n
ature an
d talk
abou
t that?"
bu
t we h
ad b
een talk
ing ab
out th
e Gold
- w
ater camp
aign an
d h
e had
already m
ade an
agreemen
t with
Gold
water th
at th
ey wou
ld d
ebate arou
nd
the n
ation. A
nd
he said
to me, "
You
kn
ow, T
ip,"
he
says, "no question," he says, "he'll have us in war and—
" K
ING
: Tu
rned
out h
e won
and
—
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Well—
K
ING
: Wh
at was th
at old jok
e? Th
ey said, if you
voted for G
oldw
ater we'd
b
e in w
ar. We voted
for Gold
water an
d w
e wen
t to war.
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Th
at's right. W
e voted—
We d
idn
't vote for Gold
water. W
e w
ent to w
ar. [ laugh
s] K
ING
: He w
as going to d
ebate G
oldw
ater aroun
d th
e coun
try? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: A
roun
d th
e coun
try. Th
ey had
already agreed
on it.
KIN
G: T
hat's a great id
ea—
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Yes.
KIN
G: B
oy, wou
ldn
't that b
e nice, to see th
at again?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Yes, it w
ould
have b
een.
KIN
G: T
o have all fu
ture—
M
r., O'N
EIL
L: W
ell, you k
now
, Gold
water an
d Jack
Ken
ned
y, and
Gold
- w
ater and
most of th
e peop
le on th
e Hill—
He w
as a very friend
ly sort of a fellow
. K
ING
: Yes.
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: He got alon
g with
everybod
y, you k
now
—
KIN
G: B
ut I m
ean, to see th
e—
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Th
ere was n
o anim
osity becau
se of political p
hilosop
hy.
KIN
G: W
ould
n't it b
e nice if w
e had
had
deb
ates? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: O
h, it w
ould
be great.
KIN
G: Y
es. Win
terville, hello.
4th C
AL
LE
R: [W
interville, G
eorgia] Mr. O
'Neill?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Yes.
4th C
AL
LE
R: H
ow w
ould
you su
ggest that ord
inary voters go ab
out regain
. ing control of C
ongress from special interest groups?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Well, you
kn
ow, you
have som
ethin
g there, as a m
atter of fact. I d
on't lik
e the P
AC
's. I just th
ink
that th
ey go too far. I wou
ld lim
it th
e amou
nt of m
oney th
at you w
ould
be ab
le to collect from a P
AC
. I thin
k
— 10 —
it's a wron
g wh
en a m
an in
Con
gress or a wom
an in
Con
gress can raise an
y-th
ing over a h
alf a million
, $600,000. If you're goin
g to run
for pu
blic office,
you k
now
, it's all right to h
ave the issu
es and
it's all right to h
ave the organ
i-zation, but if you haven't got the m
oney don't bother to run—
KIN
G: D
id you get a lot of PA
C m
oney? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: —
and
wh
o is going to ru
n again
st a fellow th
at has a m
illion
dollars or $600,000 or $800,000? I th
ink
we ou
ght to restrict—
Wh
en w
e w
rote the origin
al act in 1976, it w
as a good act. B
ut as you
will recall th
e H
einz-G
reen S
enate figh
t, Hein
z spen
t $9 million
of his ow
n m
oney an
d
Green
wen
t to court w
ith it, b
ut th
e Su
prem
e Cou
rt — goin
g all the w
ay to th
e Su
prem
e Cou
rt — th
e Su
prem
e Cou
rt ruled
that a m
an cou
ld sp
end
as m
uch
mon
ey of his ow
n as h
e wan
ted to, an
d so w
e mad
e the lim
itation w
hich
w
e originally h
ad on
the origin
al bill. Y
ou cou
ld sp
end
"X
"-am
oun
t of mon
ey p
lus th
e nu
mb
er of votes that w
as cast in you
r district. It m
ade it m
oot. An
d
so it open
ed it u
p n
ow an
d you
can ju
st spen
d as m
uch
mon
ey as you w
ant.
Bu
t somew
here alon
g the lin
e we ou
ght to b
e able to straigh
ten th
at out.
KIN
G: P
alm B
each G
arden
s, Florid
a, for Tip
O'N
eill. Hello.
5th C
AL
LE
R- [P
alm B
each G
ardens, F
lorida) H
ello, T
ip. T
his is G
eorg
e G
illigan from
Palm
Beach
Gard
ena. I'm
retired an
d I ju
st wan
ted to say th
at you
give the term
"p
olitician"
— lik
e Harry T
rum
an —
class. Also, I w
ant to
tell you th
at—
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: [laugh
s) Good ol' H
arry! I loved him.
5th C
AL
LE
R: —
I thin
k you
have b
eautifu
l gray hair.
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Th
ank
you.
5th. C
AL
LE
R: N
ow, w
hat d
o you th
ink
of George B
ush
's trip to Jap
an?
What do you think of his handling of the event?
KIN
G: O
K, T
ip?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Well, I th
ink
it was a com
plete d
isaster — to go over th
ere w
ith a tin
cup
and
our h
at in ou
r han
d an
d k
owtow
to them
. It was ju
st the
wron
g thin
g to do an
d w
hoever talk
ed h
im in
to it,— p
olitically I thin
k it w
as a m
istake th
at he m
ade.
KIN
G: W
rong to tak
e the execu
tives, too? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: V
ery interestin
gly, years ago I visited A
ustralia. T
he P
rime
Min
ister of Au
stralia said to m
e, "Y
ou're th
e rank
ing office-h
older, legislative
office-hold
er, ever to visit Au
stralia." A
nd
he said
, "Y
ou k
now
, you k
now
n
othin
g," h
e says, "ab
out th
e Pacific. T
he M
editerran
ean w
as the ocean
of th
e past,"
he says, "
the A
tlantic is th
e ocean of tod
ay, and
the P
acific is the
ocean of tom
orrow. W
e've been
your ally th
rough
the years. Y
ou k
now
noth
-in
g," h
e said, "
abou
t Au
stralia. You
kn
ow n
othin
g abou
t Japan
." H
e said,
"Y
ou k
now
very little abou
t Ch
ina."
He said
, "Y
ou d
on't realize,"
he said
, "
that th
e Japan
ese," h
e said, "
go to school,"
he said
, "ten
hou
rs a day; th
at th
ey have 240 d
ays a year; they go 40 or 60 m
ore than
you d
o — h
ow h
ard
they w
ork, h
ow in
du
strious th
ey are." A
nd
he said
, "Y
ou d
on't ap
preciate—
"
and
the tru
th of th
e matter is, I gu
ess we d
idn
't app
reciate. K
ING
: W
e're going to h
ave a State of th
e Un
ion m
essage a week
From
Tu
es-d
ay. You
'll see it, natu
rally, on C
NN
. Du
ring th
at message, b
y the w
ay, we
used
to watch
you all th
e time. Y
ou'd
sit beh
ind
Presid
ent R
eagan—
M
r. O'N
EIL
L: B
eside B
ush
. [laugh
s) K
ING
: Besid
e Mr. B
ush
— ap
plau
d. Y
ou'd
app
laud
, even w
hen
you d
idn
't agree, righ
t? Wh
at's the p
ro forma regu
lation on
that? A
re you su
pp
osed to
clap? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: O
h, su
re. K
ING
: Th
e Sp
eaker m
ust clap
? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: O
h, su
re. As a m
atter of fact, at 6:00 at nigh
t the sp
eeches
are already— are in the hands of the m
embers of C
ongress.
— 11 —
KIN
G: E
veryone th
ere kn
ows w
hat h
e's going to say?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: You
'll see some of th
em follow
him
. Bu
t some p
laces they
will have on the R
epublican side "The leadership applauds," "A
pplause." K
ING
: Th
e leadersh
ip w
ill write th
at dow
n?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Oh
, the lead
ership
will tip
it off. K
ING
: Th
is is good. T
ake u
s into th
e insid
e here.
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Oh
, sure, ab
solutely —
man
y and
man
y and
man
y and
man
y an
d m
any a tim
e. I remem
ber on
e day w
hen
Reagan
was sp
eakin
g and
we
had
read th
e speech
before, an
d I forget w
hat th
e cue lin
e was. A
nd
I said,
"W
hen
the cu
e line arises,"
I said, "
I'm goin
g to stand
and
I wan
t every De-
mocrat to stan
d."
An
d w
e gave him
one h
eck of a h
and
and
he look
ed at it in
ab
solute am
azemen
t. (lau
ghs) A
nd
the R
epu
blican
s— T
he n
ation gets k
ind
of a k
ick ou
t of it. K
ING
: So th
is is a bit of a sh
ow?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Su
re, it's a show
. K
ING
: Are you
expectin
g a big m
omen
t for George B
ush
next T
uesd
ay? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: W
ell, it's going to h
ave to be—
K
ING
: Will h
e turn
this arou
nd
? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: It's goin
g to have to b
e the th
ing for h
im th
at's going to b
ail h
im ou
t. I thin
k h
e's been
too relaxed an
d w
aiting too lon
g to come ou
t with
som
e type of a p
rogram th
at the A
merican
peop
le are waitin
g for. You
've got to ch
ange th
e coun
try's feeling. T
here's a n
egative feeling. T
here's n
o con-
sum
er bu
ying. A
nd
you've got to sh
ow lead
ership
. Now
, I don
't kn
ow w
hat
kin
d of a p
rogram h
e's got. I mean
, is he goin
g to come ou
t with
a hit-an
d-
miss? H
e just can
't keep
going th
e route th
at he's goin
g—
KIN
G: A
re we goin
g to have—
M
r. O'N
EIL
L: —
of vetoing everyth
ing th
at the H
ouse sen
ds u
p to h
im.
KIN
G: D
o you th
ink
we'll h
ave some form
of nation
al health
insu
rance?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Oh
, it's going to b
e a hard
program
. It's going to b
e deb
ated.
Th
ere's no q
uestion
that if h
e—
KIN
G: Is h
e going to p
ropose on
e? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: O
h, h
e will p
ropose on
e, bu
t I don
't thin
k th
at the A
Merican
p
ub
lic will b
uy th
e one th
at he w
ould
bu
y. A
s a matter of fact, if I w
ere Presid
ent of th
e Un
ited S
tates the first th
ing
I wou
ld say in
there is th
at I wan
t to— "
We h
ave mad
e an agreem
ent th
at w
e're not goin
g to break
— to b
ust th
e bu
dget. I'm
askin
g you righ
t now
to ap
prop
riate $40 billion
to send
back
to the cities an
d th
e states to stimu
late th
e econom
y and
move A
merica."
An
d th
en I w
ould
say, "W
e will get th
at d
oWn
the road
some w
ay on a tax, or som
e way b
y cuttin
g," or I w
ould
say, "
Righ
t now
, I say to you w
e'll cut 15 p
ercent of th
e military b
ud
get, wh
ich is
aroun
d $300 b
illion, an
d you
get 40 or 60 billion
dollars—
"
KIN
G: T
hat's a classic lib
eral prop
osal. M
r. O'N
EIL
L: A
classic lib
eral —
tha
t's wh
at I a
m —
a cla
ssic libera
l proposal—
K
ING
: So w
hy sh
ould
n't h
e mak
e it? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: W
ell, let me tell you
someth
ing. In
the 60's, th
rough
'68, the
bu
sinessm
en of A
merica n
ever did
better as th
ey did
un
der th
e Dem
ocratic P
residen
ts. Th
at was th
e history of th
at. K
ING
: Prob
ably th
e best u
nd
er the K
enn
edy A
dm
inistration
, right? Y
ou
kn
ow, w
hen
they tu
rned
it aroun
d in
'63—
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Well, th
ey did
well u
nd
er— W
ell, it was a b
it of a recession in
there—
K
ING
: Bu
t in '63—
M
r. O'N
EIL
L: —
and
then
he cam
e in w
ith th
at tax bill, you
kn
ow, givin
g
— 12 —
mon
ey back
, wh
ich stim
ulated
the econ
omy.
KIN
G: W
e'll be righ
t back
with
Tip
O'N
eill and
more of you
r ph
one calls on
L
arry Kin
g Live. T
omorrow
nigh
t, a major d
iscussion
on b
reast imp
lants;
Cyb
ill Sh
eph
erd on
Wed
nesd
ay. Don
't go away.
(Com
mercial break]
KIN
G: T
his is L
arry Kin
g, with
Tip
O'N
eill. A
re we also goin
g to see a tax cut from
the P
residen
t — a p
roposal of a tax
cut for th
e mid
dle class?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Well, I w
ould
prob
ably say h
e'd go for th
e capital gain
s tax. A
s a matter of fact—
K
ING
: Wou
ld you
go for that?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
• —I'm
for the cap
ital gains tax. I h
ave my ow
n tax p
rogram.
I've talked
to Dan
Rosten
kow
ski. I've talk
ed to T
om F
oley. I talked
with
G
eorge Bu
sh ab
out it on
e day. M
aybe—
I don
't thin
k an
y of them
ever re-m
emb
er me talk
ing to th
em ab
out it, b
ut I b
elieve in a cap
ital gains tax for
about three years—
KIN
G: A
cut.
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: A cu
t. I believe th
at bu
siness—
We took
bu
siness from
70 p
ercent an
d b
rough
t them
dow
n to 32 p
ercent, an
d w
hat d
o they d
o? Th
ey ju
st are lookin
g at the q
uarterly p
rofits. Th
ey merged
and
thin
gs like th
at. It's ju
st-- It's just sad
. Bu
t I wou
ld in
crease bu
siness. I w
ould
increase—
pu
t a tax on th
e wealth
y of Am
erica and
I'd p
ut a red
uction
on m
idd
le-class A
merica. B
ut I'd
give them
a capital gain
s. I thin
k th
at the oth
er two taxes
would even—
K
ING
: You
'd in
crease taxes on w
ho? P
eople over $200,000 a year?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: No, I'd
increase th
em over $100,000 a year. B
ut I th
ink
that
wou
ld b
alance ou
t the loss th
at you'll tak
e of capital gain
s. K
ING
: Mon
treal, hello.
6th C
AL
LE
R:
[Mon
treal, Qu
ebec, Can
ada] G
ood even
ing, gen
tlemen
. L
arry, than
ks for an
AC
E aw
ard-w
inn
ing even
ing last n
ight. E
njoyed
it im-
men
sely. K
ING
: Th
ank
you.
6th C
AL
LE
R• M
r. Sp
eaker—
M
r. O'N
EIL
L: Y
es. 6th
CA
LL
ER
: —I'm
a Dem
ocrat and
, with
all du
e respect to M
r. Bu
sh, n
ext T
uesd
ay isn't it goin
g to be som
ewh
at difficu
lt to try to allocate mon
ies — b
e it ed
ucation
, health
, or wh
at-have-you
— w
hen
you're w
orkin
g with
a $4 tril-lion
deficit an
d th
e cup
board
is bare? S
o I mean
, how
mu
ch m
anip
ulatin
g can you do in order to—
K
ING
: Yes, I th
ink
it's $3 trillion —
bu
t we d
on't h
ave the m
oney, is w
hat
he's sayin
g. M
r. O'N
EIL
L: W
ell, of course w
e don
't have th
e mon
ey. I un
derstan
d th
at. B
ut w
e have th
e mon
ey for S&
L, d
on't w
e? We h
ave the m
oney for S
&L
, wh
y can
't we b
ring ou
t someth
ing an
d say, h
ey, we're goin
g to raise it? We're
going to raise it b
y futu
re cuts. Y
ou've got p
roblem
s out th
ere of edu
cation.
You
've got prob
lems ou
t there of job
trainin
g. You
've got prob
lems ou
t there
of the econ
omy. A
nd
how
are you goin
g to do it? Y
ou're goin
g to— T
he m
ain
thin
g that you
're going to d
o over a period
of years is you're goin
g to cut th
e m
ilitary bu
dget a cou
ple of h
un
dred
million
. You
cut $40 m
illion th
is year an
d th
en after you
get that figu
re dow
n th
ere you give th
em th
e increase of
the inflation, but you don't go wild, and over a period of five or six years you
'd
be savin
g a coup
le of hu
nd
red m
illion.
KIN
G: W
hen
you cu
t the m
ilitary bu
dget, p
eople get ou
t of work
— righ
t? -people w
ho were—
M
r. O'N
EIL
L: W
hy, certain
ly, I un
derstan
d th
at. Bu
t they'll gen
erate new
— 13 —
jobs alon
g the lin
e. You
'll stimu
late some p
rogress in th
e coun
try. K
ING
: Do you
favor some w
ork p
rograms to red
o the h
ighw
ays? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: O
h, n
o qu
estion. W
e've got to restructu
re. Th
e brid
ges of A
merica are an
absolu
te disgrace. W
hen
I was S
peak
er of the H
ouse I re-
mem
ber Jim
How
ard com
ing ou
t and
saying 106,000 —
106,000 — b
ridges
were in
jeopard
y. Just im
agine h
ow m
any job
s that w
ould
be, alon
e. An
d ou
r origin
al bill w
as — w
hat? O
ur road
bill —
It's got to be 40 or 50 years old
. W
e need
restructu
ring.
KIN
G: T
he lon
ger we w
ait, the w
orse it is. M
r. O'N
EIL
L: T
he in
frastructu
re of the cou
ntry—
Look
wh
at hap
pen
ed
dow
n h
ere in W
ashin
gton th
e other d
ay — th
at pip
e was so old
and
so rusted
. Y
ou n
eed n
ew w
ater systems, you
need
new
sewer system
s, and
it's going to
cost more m
oney if you don't do them now
. K
ING
: Ch
icago, hello.
7th C
AL
LE
R: [C
hicago, Illin
ois) Good
evenin
g, gentlem
en.
KIN
G: H
i. 7th
CA
LL
ER
: Tip
, you're a cred
it to the Irish
race. We love you
here in
Ch
i-cago. M
r. O'N
EIL
L: T
han
k you
. 7
th C
AL
LE
R: Y
ou
tell a g
reat sto
ry a
bo
ut H
enry
Fo
rd's v
isit ba
ck to
Ireland. M
r. O'N
EIL
L: R
ight.
7th C
AL
LE
R: W
ould
you tell A
merica th
at story abou
t his first trip
back
th
ere wh
en h
e mad
e all the m
oney to th
e hosp
ital? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: W
hat ab
out it, L
arry? [laugh
s) K
ING
: All righ
t, we'll d
o that. W
e'll take a b
reak an
d com
e back
and
hear
the Henry F
ord Ireland story from "the T
ipper." Don't go aw
ay. [C
ornrn
ercial break) K
ING
: Ou
r guest —
Tip
O'N
eill. O
K. th
e Hen
ry Ford
story. M
r. O'N
EIL
L: W
ell, in 1956, I w
as app
ointed
by S
am R
aybu
rn to go to
Ireland
to the d
edication
of the statu
te of John
Barry [sp
?]. Now
if you 'w
ent
to a paroch
ial school lik
e I did
, you k
now
that Joh
n B
arry is the fath
er, of the
Am
erican N
avy. If you w
ent to a p
ub
lic school, you
prob
ably b
elieve that
John
Pau
l Jones w
as the fath
er of the A
merican
Navy.
KIN
G: Y
es. M
r. O'N
EIL
L: W
ell, we w
ent o
ver —
Millie a
nd
I — a
nd
we la
nd
ed in
Du
blin
and
it was ab
out five d
ays before th
e ded
ication. T
he S
tate Dep
art-m
ent said
, "W
hat w
ould
you lik
e to do?"
I said, "
I'd lik
e to go dow
n arou
nd
C
ork C
ity, wh
ere my gran
d-p
eople h
ad com
e from, an
d see if I can
locate som
e relatives or someth
ing."
An
d so w
e drove d
own
and
we stop
ped
, of cou
rse, to kiss th
e blarn
ey stone. A
nd
the d
river— W
e saw th
e bells of S
han
-n
on an
d ran
g the b
ells of Sh
ann
on.
An
d th
e driver w
as takin
g us arou
nd
the cou
ntrysid
e and
he stop
ped
the
car and
he said
, "T
hat's ou
r local hosp
ital." W
ell, I said, "
Wh
at's so interest-
ing ab
out th
at? Every com
mu
nity h
as a hosp
ital." H
e says: In 1929, H
enry
Ford
came to Irelan
d. H
is first visit, he's in
a hotel —
kn
ock at th
e door, a
group
of men
, and
they said
, "Mr. F
ord, w
e wan
t to welcom
e you to C
ork C
ity —
the h
ome of you
r moth
er and
father —
your first visit. W
e're bu
ildin
g a h
ospital an
d w
e thou
ght p
erhap
s, in m
emory of you
r moth
er and
dad
, you'd
lik
e to mak
e a don
ation,"
and
very graciously F
ord sat d
own
and
he w
rote out
a check
for $5,000 and
he gave it to th
em.
The follow
ing day the Cork C
ourier cam
e out —
blazin
g head
line th
at said,
"H
enry F
ord d
onates $50,000 to h
ospital."
Th
at afternoon
— k
nock
at the
door, th
e same grou
p of m
en. T
hey cam
e in. T
hey said
, "M
r. Ford
, we're
—14--
grateful for th
e $5,000. We're sorry ab
out th
e mistak
e that th
e new
spap
er m
ade, b
ut tom
orrow th
ey'll mak
e a correction,"
and
Ford
said, "
Give m
e my
check
back
." S
o they gave h
im h
is check
and
he tore it u
p an
d h
e said, "
Wh
at d
oes it cost to bu
ild a h
ospital?"
and
they said
, "F
ifty thou
sand
dollars,"
and
h
e sat dow
n an
d h
e wrote a ch
eck ou
t for $50,000." H
e says, "H
ere, have th
is in
mem
ory of my m
other an
d fath
er, on on
e cond
ition—
" an
d th
ose Irishm
en
did
n't care w
hat th
e cond
ition w
as. He says, "
Over th
e portals of th
e hosp
ital I w
ant th
e inscrip
tion th
at I have in
min
d."
"W
hat is it, M
r. Ford
?" "
An
d th
e inscription reads: I cam
e among you and you took m
e in." [laugh
s] K
ING
: [laugh
s] Th
at is great. M
r. O'N
EIL
L: S
o wh
en I get a n
ice warm
welcom
e somew
here, I tell th
em
the H
enry F
ord story an
d say, "
I'm very gratefu
l. I came am
ong you
and
you took
me in
." K
ING
: Th
at is a great, great—
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Th
at was a good
— T
he d
river told m
e that story an
d th
at w
as in 1956 I first h
eard th
at story. K
ING
: Do you
ever talk to P
residen
t Reagan
? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: O
nce in
a wh
ile. You
kn
ow, n
ot too long ago I w
as in th
e hos-
pital —
had
pn
eum
onia —
and
the telep
hon
e rang an
d it's th
e Presid
ent. H
e said
, "T
ip—
" I said
, "W
ho's th
is?" H
e says, "T
his is th
e Presid
ent."
I said,
"H
ow are you
, Ron
? Nice to talk
to you."
"F
ine. W
ell," h
e said, "
I'm h
ere w
ith N
ancy an
d sh
e just saw
in th
e pap
er that you
were in
the h
ospital an
d
she said
to give you a call,"
and
he said
, "I p
ut it th
rough
the W
hite H
ouse
switch
board
," an
d h
e says they got m
e and
he says, "
We're goin
g out h
orse-b
ack rid
ing."
An
d I got alon
g and
said "
Hello"
to Nan
cy. A
nd I prob
ably
have talk
ed to th
em ab
out th
ree times.
You
kn
ow, on
e of the q
uestion
s wh
en I'm
on th
e speak
ing tou
r: "H
ow d
id
you an
d R
eagan get alon
g?" I say, "
After 6:00, w
e'd get alon
g beau
tifully,"
O
ur p
hilosop
hies w
ere so differen
t — b
ut w
e never let th
at both
er us.
KIN
G: N
o. M
r. O'N
EIL
L: A
nd
he's a great storyteller an
d I en
joyed h
is comp
any.
KIN
G: W
e'll be b
ack w
ith ou
r remain
ing m
omen
ts with
a man
we alw
ays en-
joy — the pleasure of his com
pany — T
ip O'N
eill. Don't go aw
ay. [C
omm
ercial break) K
ING
: With
Tip
O'N
eill, we go to P
hilad
elph
ia. Hello.
8th C
AL
LE
R: [P
hiladelph
ia, Pen
nsylvan
ia] H
ello, Mr. S
peak
er. With
the
long h
istory of brok
ered con
vention
s in th
e Dem
ocrat Party, I w
as won
derin
g if you
were ever ap
proach
ed, eith
er privately or p
ub
licly, to app
ear on th
e H
arold Stern show?
KIN
G: D
o you h
ave any id
ea wh
o that is?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: No.
KIN
G: N
o? I don
't either, sir. S
orry, we can
't help
you.
Win
chester, M
assachu
setts, hello.
9th C
AL
LE
R: [W
inch
ester, Massach
usetts)
Hi, T
ip. H
ow are you
tonigh
t? H
ello? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: H
ello. 9th
CA
LL
ER
: Yes, T
ip?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Yes?
9th C
AL
LE
R: H
ow d
o you th
ink
the R
ed S
ox are going to d
o this year?
KIN
G: T
he R
ed S
ox! M
r. O'N
EIL
L: W
ell, they're goin
g all the w
ay this year. W
e just got V
iola an
d C
lemen
ts is in good
shap
e. I saw h
im h
itting th
e golf ball in
the H
ope
yesterday. N
o qu
estion.
KIN
G: N
o qu
estion?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: No. A
s a matter of fact, I'll b
e 80 years old an
d I saw
my first
— 15 —
4
ball game in 1920 and they've been disappointing m
e all through the years. T
his is our year. K
ING
: This is the year?
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: This is the year.
KIN
G: S
uper Bow
l, Tip —
Who w
ins it? M
r. O'N
EIL
L:
Oh, W
ashington wins it. Y
ou know, I saw
the last game the
Boston R
edskins ever played — 1934, '35, som
ething like that—
KIN
G: T
hey were the B
oston Redskins —
right. M
r. O'N
EIL
L:
—and the final gam
e of the year was very interesting. T
he bleach
er seats were 5
0 cen
ts and th
e oth
er seats — th
e gran
dstan
d seats -
were a dollar and a half. A
nd Marshall w
ent up in the price of the bleacher seats to $1.00 and the other seats to $2.50—
K
ING
: George M
arshall. M
r. O'N
EIL
L:
—and 8,000 people crashed in and refused to pay. N
ow, this
is in the height of the Depression, of course. A
nd he took the club out and he play
ed fo
r the ch
ampio
nsh
ip th
e follo
win
g w
eek in
Bro
okly
n an
d h
e drew
about 3,000 people, and then he took the R
edskins down here around 1935 or
something like that. I've follow
ed them all through the years. G
ee, they had a great team
back in 1934 and '35. IC
ING
: Well, how
about this year? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: T
his year, I think it's the greatest Redskins team
I have ever seen. I just think they're m
arvelous. K
ING
: So they w
ill beat Buffalo S
unday? M
r. O'N
EIL
L: N
o question in my m
ind. K
ING
: Alw
ays great seeing you, Tip.
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Delighted.
KIN
G: H
ave a great winter.
Mr. O
'NE
ILL
: Thank you, L
arry. K
ING
: We'll call on you often —
and long life. M
r. O'N
EIL
L: T
hank you. K
ING
: Tip O
'Neill, the form
er Speaker of the H
ouse of Representatives. W
e hope you enjoyed that as m
uch as we did in having him
with us.
We'll b
e with
you o
n th
e radio
on T
he L
arry K
ing S
how
in o
ne h
our.
Tom
orrow night, a m
ajor discussion on breast implants —
those for, those against. It'll be lively. O
n Wednesday night, C
ybill Shepherd w
ill join us. B
ernard Shaw
is right here in Washington. H
e's going to anchor the news
at the top of the hour with a big special corning at the bottom
of the hour. F
rom T
ip and I, Bernie, w
hat's up? B
ER
NA
RD
SHA
W, “W
orldNew
s": Larry, T
ip, thanks for joining us. C
oming up on W
orldNew
s: There is w
ord President B
ush will lim
it federal regulations to help boost the econom
y. Rem
arks by Japan's Prim
e Minister
are gen
erating lo
ts of co
ntro
versy
over ex
actly w
hat w
as accom
plish
ed in
those trade talks w
ith the United S
tates. And in our second half-hour, w
e'll look at reputed M
ob boss John Gotti w
hose federal racketeering trial begins tom
orrow.
WorldN
ews begins right after this.
Copyrig
ht C
1992 C
able
New
s Netw
ork, In
c.