in the sufreme oourt of south africa (transvaal ... · executive committee, in fact i do not see a...
TRANSCRIPT
, IN THE SUfREME OOURT OF SOUTH AFRICA
(TRANSVAAl, PROVINCIAL DIVISION) •
. f
,N.A.I/(O~O
CASE ~O. 18/75/254
DATE: 6th MAY 1916
In the matter of:
THE STATE
vs
s. COOPER AND EIGHT OTHERS r
__ ._P, ____ •• __ • ____ ..... I ._~ _______ ..., ______________ ~ ___ II _____ • _____ • ___ n ___ _
o
VOLmm 82 E •
PAGES 4677 - 4739
LUBBE RECORDINGS (PRETORIA) •
/V1!ID.
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/Vl·1D .; - 4G77 - BIKO
COURT RESUHES ON 6th rul.Y 1976,
B.S. BIKO, STILL UNDER OATH:
CROSS-EXAIlINATION BY HR. ATTWELL CONTINUED: Hr. Biko,
just to rOWld off where we ended off yesterday, 1-1e w"ere
busy with the Shezi funeral which you attended? --- Correct.
Can you tell the Court, did any of the Accused no,.,
before Court attend that funeral? --- I am s~~e some did
attend, but I cannot remember specifically now.
So you cannot point to anyone? --- I cannot
specifically point to anyone.
Now, dealing with the Accused shortly, you said
that you knew certain of the Accused before their arrest
and the others you r~ve met subsequent to their detention
during this trial? --- Correct.
Did you visit the AccuseLl '? --- In gaol you mean?
Yes, after their detention? --- Yes, I did.
And you have seen them on occasions here in Court?
--- That is correct.
Did you attend ~~ of the Court hearings, Court
10
proceedings in this trial? --- Yes I did, I came durine 20
the time of the evidence of Dr. or Professor van der Her1're,
during his evidence, I made an appearance.
\vas that the only witness giving evidence that you
heard? PAUSE
Was this before or after you knew that you were a
likely or possible Defence witness? --- Well I knew I
was a likely witness, but I did not understand it to mean
that I may not come in until I vias told by Counsel that I
should not come in.
And the final question i s , have you had access 3C
a t / ... •
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BIKO
at all to any of the transcripts of evidence, the official
transcripts? --- No.
r have in mind 1-/hat I am sholving you non, this
type of thing? --- No.
Not at all? Not at all.
Are you aware of the evidence given by specifically
other accomplices for the state? --- Like lv-ho for instance?
Hell I can put it to you directly there vlere
witnesses, Ledwaba was one, there was a witness .Ahmed Baua,
there was a witness Harry Singh, are you avlare of the 10
testimony of any of these people? --- Well except for
brief reports in the Press, I am not aware.
Did you discuss the evidence of any of those people
or anybody else with the Accused at all? --- Not with
the Accused, I am sure I talked about Harry Singh for
instance at home with some of my folk down there, but
not with .the Accused.
Did you know Harry Singh at all? --- Ye s, I know' him.
Was he quite a senior member of BPC? --- Not till
I left Durban, I do not know if he became one afterwards.
NOvT, Ivlr. Biko, I would like you to turn quickly
to the SASO GSCs which you did attend, there are just
one or two things I would like to ask you about them,
but before we do that the SASO - I think you have told
the Court who the SASO Executive was elected at the
inaugural convention? --- That is correct.
Could you perhaps just tell us which members were
elected onto the SASO Executive at the first GSC, the
Minutes of which we do not have? --- Vlell the president
was Barney Pityana, the vice president internal was
Lindelwe / ...
20
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Lindelvle !1abandla, the external vice president 1'TaS
Charles Dibisi, I was in charge of publications , I
think Job NathWl.Yane lias in charge of vThat we called
cultural affairs. That is really as much as I can
remember - there were other portfolios but I cannot
remember them now.
I would like to refer you then to the }linutes
of the second GSC held in July 1971, SASO A.l, M'lord,
if we start on the first actual page of the Ninutes it
sets out certain Executive regional directors and
departmental directors who were present? --- That is
correct.
I do not for instance see your name under the
Executive Committee, in fact I do not see a portfolio of
director of publications there. Is this a portfolio
"'hich vTas created later or 1-laS it not an official
portfolio, or vThat is the position here? --- \'Ie11 if yOlt
look under departmental directors you 1'li11 see "publications
- steve Biko tt •
10
Now it does not seem to fall under - or does this 2C
whole lot fall under the ~xecutive? --- Well at the top
it says Executive Committee.
Does that include regional directors and so on?
--- That is correct.
So all these people in fact were on the Bxecutive?
That is correct.
At what stage did the Executive of SA~O boil doun
to five portfolios? --- Well we narrovled it dOvln a t t he
1971 conference.
Oh, at the 1971 conference? --- That i s correct. 30
iU1d / • • •
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And is the position as no,., set out in the SASO
ConstitQtion where only five specific people are set out
as part of the Executive Committee, is that nOlv the
position? --- That is correct.
lIT. Biko, if vle could just have a look at one or
two points, if you start paging through it I see you Hill
find that you yourself were the proposer or seconder of
numerous of the motions and resolutions taken at this
particular GSC, but you will also find the name Nokoape
appears very frequently here as seconder and proposer of 10
Resolutions? --- Yes.
Which Mokoape is that? --- Well it should be the
younger brother.
Ho,.; who would tha t be what is his name? --- Keith
I-lokoape.
Did Aubrey Nokoape, Accused No.4, attend this GSC?
--- Well as I said as far as I remember Aubrey has not
attended any SASO conference, that is fully as a delegate,
he could have visited, but I do not remember him attending
as a delegate.
Here both Aubrey and Keith r.1okoape members of
SASO at this particular stage? --- \l/e11, the centre as 0-
whole was affiliated to SASO, so that technically any
stUdent at UN.B was a member of SASO. NOvl Kei th was an
active member of the SASO local committee, and Aubrey
gave assistance now and then in one or other of the
projects of SASO.
Viere they both card-bearing members of SASO? --- I
cannot remember, signing a card vTas optional in a centre
20
which l'laS affiliated. 30
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BIRO
I see. Did a card-bearing member of SASO carry
any extra weight over an affiliated centre member?
--- No, not at all.
You will remember that Aubrey did attend the
DOCC conference in December of this year as a delegate
of the SASO delegation? --- That is correct.
That is Accused No.4? --- That is correct, yes.
This GSC in fact took the Resolution on foreign
investments? --- That is correct, yes.
\ih.ich set out the SASO vie~'W'"Point? --- Yes.
NOli if we could perhaps just have a quick look
at this, page 17 of your numbering, page 255 of Your
Lordship's, Resolution 50/71. I do not intend dealing
with the preamble, but it says here under "noting further
that foreign investors" - do you see that at the bottom?
Nmmm
n(vii) make it possible for S.A. to spurn world
opinion to maintain her racist regime;
(viii) boost S.A. international image and make
l O
S.A. an ideal land for investment l'lhilst 20
the social evils practised by the regime
are lost sight of;
(ix) give S.A. an economic stability that
enables her to gain diplomatic and economic
acceptance in the international scene ll •
Do you see that? --- That is correct.
Now I think in your evidence-in-chief you s t a t ed
that there was perhaps a mistake or a wrong i mpression
created by certain words used in t he ninth par agr aph?
--- Mmmm
\fuat / ...
30
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- 4 ~8 2 - BIRO
What was that again, could you just point that out
to the Court? --- Well I was referring to the term
economic stability, I said it could have meant as far
as I understood it economic involvement which results
in diplomatic and economic acceptance, in other words
involvement of other nations and countries in our
economy results in them having to bat an eye so to speak
to whatever South Africa does.
Do you think that one could then replace the word
stability in fact \vith involvement here? --- This is IDJr 1 0
understanding of that particular clause.
Now if you do that, \\I'ould you then just read. it
reading "involvement" and tell me if it makes sense?
--- "give S.A. an economic involvement that enables her
to gain diplomatic and economic acceptance acceptance in
the international scene."
Does that make sense to you? --- Yes, it is an
incomplete sentence but certainly the understanding here
is involvement with other groups, with other nations,
other countries.
Should it not h.ave read "gives overseas companies
an economic involvement that enables S.A. to gain •• "?
--- No, I think the focal point is South Africa and her
involvement with other nations economically.
Is it correct, I think you prefaced your evidence
on foreign investment as have previous \vi tnesses, both
for the State and the Defence, in stating t hat foreign
investments 'tvas a very contentious matter ? --- It i s
contentious all right.
20
No'\v, contentious in what regard, Br. Biko , what I'TaG :;U
i nherent / • • •
- 4 ~~8 3 - BI RO
inherent in this particular aspect that made it s uch a
contentious matter? --- Well it was contentious as f ar
as I am concerned in so far as it was topical, it Has
an area where South Africa was being criticised by
various people in countries which invest here. It was
contentious in that there was a stage at which for
instance companies involved in our economy here, did not
know how to respond to their situation of involvement
here, it was contentious in that several companies
abroad sent teams here to investigate the behaviour and 10
operations of their companies, it was contentious in that
governments like Britain for instance began to give
directives to their companies that were involved in our
economy to behave in a certain manner. In other vvords
the term contentious here is being us ed only in so far
as it was an issue being raised throughout the Ylorld,
and it was an issue on which criticism "las beil'lg focused.
onto participation by other nations in our economy at
that level.
Was it contentious also in a sense that it evoked 20
a wide diversity of opinion? --- It was topical and t here
was lots of debate.
Did the Blacks differ amongst themselves also as
to the advisability or non-advisability of economic
investment in this country? --- Yes they did.
I notice this Resolution was adopted unanimouoly
with acclaim? --- No, nem con does not mean unanimously,
nem con means without anyone opposing , t here may be people
who abstained.
But vTi th acclaim? --- \Ii t h acclai m certai nly
because / ..•
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BIRO
because some people felt very strongly about it - ab ut
certain things.
Now, the preamble in fact sets out the
understanding, of SASO anyway, as to the extent of
foreign investment in this country? --- Yes, well I
would put it this way, this is the presentation by the
particular commission, and it was accepted.
And in fact tho se figures suggest a fairly
substantial investment by foreign investors in the
economy, liOuld you agree with me? --- \-vell, if you real -I y 1 0
~ook at the total capital required for South Africrul
industries, they a re not all that significant. They
would constitute I think at this particular stage
probably about not certainly more than 12~~ , and I think
the current foreign investment in our economy is about
7C;~ now •• (Mr. Attwell intervenes)
Let us confine ourselves to when this vlas taken
in 1971? --- Yes, I am looking at it in terms of total
capital required, there is much much more generated from
within you see, so although it looks like a hell of a lot 20
of millions when you look at it on paper, percentage-~rise
as I say it is certainly not more than l~~ even at that
stage.
And 12~~ of the country's economy is a fairly
substantial slice, is that correct? --- Not seriously reaJJ~.
Not really? --- No.
You then vlent on to point out in your evidence-in
chief that in fact SASO went no further than r:1erely
rejecting this foreign investment? --- Ye s .
It did not go so far as to include discouraeement 3G
of / ••.
- 4085 - EllO
of foreign investment? --- Illmmm
Could you perhaps just once again outline to the
Court the reason for not going the whole hog and including
discouragement as well? --- Well I explained to the
Court that SASO took this Resolution precisely because
the issue was a topical one and many people from abroad
and from within were asking what our point of view was.
We had not taken a decision on the issue, and we
decided at this particular conference merely to truce a
policy decision, just to indicate to our membership '1'lhat 10
our attitude vras. We did not seek to involve ourselves
in a programme, a campaign to discourage foreign
investment, ,,;e just sought to have an attitude, a policy
attitude.
N01'; if I may ask why didn't SASO want to get
involved in a campaign to discourage foreign investment?
--- Well, there are a number of reasons, I think some of
them I pointed out in my evidence-in-chief, the main one
being that even if you ardently believe that foreign
investments were bad, and that they should be got out 20
of the country, it was in fact impossible to do so, for
. two . reasoPs t because ,th~ . companies involved in the South
African economy have not come here out of ignorance,
they have come here out of knowledge in fact, they have
come here particularly amongst other things to exploit
the existence of cheap labour in our labour la1,r provisions,
and secondly the country itself any1'ray has tightened up
its control over foreign investment since t h e days of
Sharpeville, and it nou is very difficult for a firm to
pullout their money, as you lTould knoH of course they :;0
cannot / •••
- 4( 36 - BIKO
cannot pullout their factories, so it is difficult to
plllJ out their money from the country in the first
instance, they have got to go through a whole rigmarole,
through government controlled measures, some of Hhich
I do not actually understand myself.
Do I understand you correctly then that SASO
considered it not a feasible type of thing it could do?
--- Not a desirable thing for several reasons.
Did it consider it was possible to do so? --- \'lell,
we had never looked - if you can look at this amendment 10
we took it out precisely because we did not want to
involve ourselves in that programme.
It says: that the Council is not composed of people
who are capable of keeping foreign investors out"? -- llmmm
NOll, what then is the difference betvreen SASO and
BPC, because BPC went far further than merely rejecting
foreign investment, it in fact discouraged it? --- I am
not aware really, I think BPC as far as I kno1'[ could have
had bilateral meetings with particular firms or could have
applied pressure on particular firms, but I t~iru{ the 20
understanding which was envisaged stemmed also from this
type of stance. I think everybody
that there is nothing much you can do in this sphere,
the little you can do is to use your political aptitude
to bend things your way a bit, in other words to bring
about some kind of influence on foreign firms which are
in this country, to relate more closely to Blacks, and to
relate certainly to the attitudes that Blacks have. We
'\.-rant to see our workers being trained, we vlant to s ee
our workers being given po sitions of re sponsibility 3C
Hithin / ••.
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BlEO
wi thj n the firms. In other words 't'Te vTant to see the
whole humanity of workers within firms like Heinemn.n.
and all the foreign firms vrho are in this country
developed by the firms to understanding our attitude.
Do you dispute the fact that BPC w-ent further
and in fact discouraged foreiBn investment? --- I am
not hundred per cent aware of all the programmes taken
by BPC, all I am saying is that the attitude towards
foreign investment l'lhich 't'las in BPC vIas very similar to
the one that SASO took.
I would like to refer you then to the Resolution
taken by BPC at its first national congress in December
of 1972, document BPO 0.3, Resolution 20 of 1972 on
page 7 of your paper.
COURT: It seems that the policies are very similar, no 1'1
is that coincidence or how do they manage to have
similar policies? --- I think, N'lord, there are certain
very influential people of Sl\.SO for instance who 1'lere also
members of BPO, and in a sense what stance SASO tru{es
10
does often get more expression you kno11[, lTi thin BPC;. 2 I
There is a relationship in that sense, you knou, a
structural relationship.
Is it correct then to say that the policy of BPC
was very much under the direction of SASO? --- Not reaJ1y,
I think they 'tV'ere related, I mean there is evidence '-There
BPa takes policy where SASO took it up. (?)
NR. ATTHELL: BPa a. 3, ~1 '10rd, Re solut ion 20 of 1972, on
page 9 of Your Lordship's papers, page 7 of the typed
document. Have you got that, Nr. Bike? --- ~1mmm
You will notice that it says : "The congress
noting / •••
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noting -
1. the vital role played by foreign investors in
maintaining and supporting the economic system
in South Africa.
The system is designed for maximum exploitation
of Black people;
That the riches and resources of this cOUlltry
belong as their birthright;
Further noting -
-- Right.
that foreign investors claim that their presence l O
in this cowltry contributes tOHards the
development of the Black community"
"But this claim is disputed by the reality of the
Blacks' experience in this country,
Therefore resolves -
To reject the involvement of foreign investors in
this exploitative economic system, and
To call upon foreign investors to disengage
themselves from the White controlled exploitative 20
system, and mandates the National Executive to
make known our stand on foreign investors, kno1-m
both in this country and overseas through all
available channels" -
Do you agree with me that goes further than merely
rejecting foreign investors? --- You m ght say the llord
"doll, but I think it is just a politica l s ta...rlce again
from w'bich to operate.
You notice there "a calIon foreie n inves tors t o
di sengage thems elves" ? --- The point ab out it, r·Ir . Attvell , j G
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I know the BPC attitude to this, I kn01v the people
involved, and vrhat I am saying here is that not one
person I have met in BPC ever hoped or thought at
any given stage that investors were going to pullout.
But "Then you are going to operate a political programme,
like applying pressure on .foreign companies, you take
a stand and you operate from that stand in a certain
direction.
Do you know who the mover and seconder of that
motion were at the BPC congress? --- No, I do not knov,.
There appear to have been a Mr. Ne!lg1'renlculu and a
r-IIr. B.Nafuna, that would be Bokvre l\1afuna, are these people
knovln to you? --- Yes I know both of them.
They vlere both SASO members at one stage Here t hey
not? -- Not Illafuna.
Nengwenkulu l'las a SASO member? --- That is correct.
I refer, if Your Lordship does require reference .
here to BPC C.4 on page 50, which does give the proposer
and seconder of that particular motion. You notice in
J_u
point I that the vital role played by foreign investors 20
is stressed? --- Right.
Now, do you know any steps that BPC did in fact
take in its Resolution to discourage and call upon
foreign investors to withdraw? --- I would not personally
know.
I think you said yesterday or the day before in
your evidence that the actual purpose of this call Has
to exert pressure? --- Yes.
On South Af rica. Vias it in any way to hurt or
cripple the economy of the country ? --- "To , cert ainly . 3(;
'/ould / •••
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- 4590 - BIKO
Would it have that effect? --- As "I acid in my
evidence-in-chief it could not have, vfe w'ere quite 2.Hare
that it could not have.
N01-1 there are other documents before Court put
out by other of the Accused which seem to suggest that
a total withdrawal of foreign investment would cripple
this country and bring the racist government to its
knees? --- I "Tould have to see that in its context.
Well I can refer you to those particular - PAUSE -
you said in your evidence now that "we were aware that 10
it could not have this effect"? --- Yes.
When you say "we" who are you referring to there?
--- I am tal king abo ut the general leadership 1-Ti thin
SABO and certain general leadership vlithin BPC.- PAUSE -
I am sorry I am being disturbed by T·1r. Rees here.
COURT: Try and be inaudible, I-Ir. Rees.
I·lil. ATT\{ELL: I refer you to a document BPC C. 9, a
statement issued by the Black People's Convention, and
purportedly given out, if you look at page 3 of the
document, by Roy Chetty in his capacity as public re1~tions 20
officer, Sipho Buthelezi in his capacity as secretary
general, Aubrey Mokoape, Accused No.4, in his capacity
as chairman of the Durban Central BPC branch, and Harry
Singh in his capacity as chairman of the Overport BPC
branch. These are influential people in BPC, correct?
-- Correct.
Now if you will have a look at the second page of
that document, page 21 of Your Lordship's papers, the
middle paragraph which begins "advocates of continued
investment claim that if foreign investors wi thdre1'T thio 30
lTould / •••
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- 469 J. - BIRO
"would result 'in largescale unemployment of Blacks II - h.nve
you got that paragraph? --- I am just trying to find it.
The sixth paragraph on that page. -- Right.
IIAdvocates of continued investment claim that if
foreign investors wi thdrevl this ''lould result in
largescale unemployment of Blacks. Wi thdra1val
can only mean the downfall of the Vorster regime.
Black people have pledged themselves to fi~lt for
freedom whatever the cost. Black people have
endured much suffering and cannot suffer beyond 10
this. Black people in general are preparej to
suffer any consequences if this means ultimate
Black freedom II •
Now how does that tie up with what you have just told
the Court? --- Yes I do not think this implies necessarily
that va thdrawal will result in economic d01fnfall, I think
this refers to the vThole area of criticism, that the
western countries tend to contain or get sustenance, that
is sustain a bit of their relationship lvi th South Mrica
precisely because of their economic ties at investment 20
level. NOl'T, any form of complete disengagement will
result in freedom by countries to be as critical as
they ·wish. South Africa then loses the kind of defenders
it has at United Nations, i t cannot anymore spurn vlorld
opinion. I think this is some conclusion one can draw
from this statement. As I said before these men are
quite aware that foreign investment is very low in this
country in terms of the total capital required, and even
if all foreign firms were to go out now really, South
Africa vTill not even seriously limp economically. This
we / •..
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vTe know. As I said again in ~. eviden~e-in-chief,
according to studies by the department of economies
what we require is something like 6.4 investment from
outside, the rest can be produced from inside the
country.
Perhaps you would have a look at one other
document, BPC 0.8 , a document entitled "foreien
investment II by Nk1venk'VTe Nkomo, Accused Ho. 5. Hill you
have a look at the second page of that document, I,h"l.
Biko, have a look at the paragraph just under the middle 1 0
of the page "on the other hand" - do you see a paragraph
starting like that? --- Yes.
"On the other hand it would serve a purpose if
foreign companies closed dOl'Tn completely and all
employees lose work. This 'tnll be the time 1"]hen
Black people 'till realise that it is better to be
idle than to be exploited. It "rill serve to
redirect Black initiative and creativity"
This ties up vlith 't'lhat is said higher up in the document
in the second paragraph, vThen he refers to incidents ljJ-;:e 20
Doornkop, Limehill, Rooigrond and other similar ones
"could only succeed through the use of commodities
manufactured by foreign investors. The involvement of
foreign investors in the Black banks should be discouraGed,
because it is aimed at curbing the creativity ru1d
militancy of the Black people" --- Right.
Hov; does that tie up with - PAUSE ? --- Again I
think this is purely a speculation. The point about
vIi thdra1'Tal of foreign investment is this, that vThen a man
,·,ho inve st s here has got to wi thdravl he has got to S ell ~ C)
to / •••
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- 469.; - BIKO
to somebody. He has to sell either to another foreigner
or he has got to sell to a South African, either way t he
factory goes on, either '''ay the capital "Thich \Va s
involved in that business continues to generate a kind
of livelihood for the people employed by that firm. 80
that the fact that it is a foreigner or a South African
who has the firm has got nothing to do ' 'lith employment
for instance of Black labour. Now, tbis I regard as pLU"'e
speculation because it is not possible that anybody is
just going to close dOvffi and leave his capital idle in 1 0
this country. This is just pure speculation for tbis
man it serveG the purpose of encouraging people in his
particular thinking - no~'l I have not read the uhole
document so I do not understand 'what the vThole thil1.kine
is. But it is certainly pure speculation.
I appreciate that the actual physical buildinGs,
factories, cannot be removed? --- Yes.
But the investment is I submit Shovffi in the document
and appreciated by both SASO and BPC to be a very
substantial one'? --- The point at issue is that he cannot
just take his money and go out, any foreign investor
cannot just take his money and g o out, he ha s got to sell
to somebody.
The question of immorality is stressed is it not ?
--- This is the point, it does not mean that his actionc
are necessarily moral because he cannot take out hi s money.
No, he can close dOlm his company if he i s
prepared to lose a couple of hundred t housand or Q half
a mil lion, but it 'will have t he effect of pushing Black
1'Torkers out •• (1vi tness intervenes ) --- 'mere have you 3(;
ever / •••
- 4C94 - BIRO
ever seen such a capitalist w'ho -Ls prepal ... ed to lose 200
million or 100 million just like that.
I did not say 100 million, some of the foreign
investors are fairly small? --- That is correct, they
are small, but no capitalist wants to lose anything. In
the first place he came here to make money, if it gets
hot he has got to sell, who does he sell to, another
foreigner, easier, or a South African.
So that is your interpretation of those documents?
--- Yes.
You see there is also reference in one of the SASO
neHsletters which says that -
""le should never make the mistake of trying to
create a contented and happy Black Horker"
.Are you familiar 't'ri th such a statement? --- No.
\'lould you like me to refer you to it? --- Yes, I
w'ould like to see it in its context.
If the Court vlill bear with me for one moment, I
do not know' if I am able to lay my hands on it at this
1 0
particular moment - PAUSE - Hr. Bil{o, I think then 20
we should continue w'here we left off l'li th the SASO
Minutes of that conference, if you still have them in
front of you. --- Right.
That is the SASO A.l - if you wi.ll turn to
Resolution 57 of 1971, page 21 of your document, paee
259 of Your Lordship's papers, it deals with Black
Theology? --- Yes.
And it then states in Resolution 58 of 1971, the
next one, under (iii) there -
"'tfith proper organisation the Black TheoloGY
meS8aee / •••
3C
,
BIKO
message will be acceptable to the Black people
and relevant to their plight -
Therefore
instructs the secretary-general to form, together
with other relevant religious groups a permanent
commission of Black Theology to study, direct rula
popularise thi s concept If -
you 1iere the seconder of that motion and Nengt'lenkulu the
mover? --- Nmmm
Does that mean what it says there? --- It means
what it says.
You then turn in Resolution 60 of 1971 at the
bottom of the page to culture? --- Yes.
And if I may turn to the Resolution itself on page
23, 261 of Your Lordship's papers, where you resolve -
"that a permanent organiser be employed 1'lhose task
internally would be -
(a) to direct the cultural orientation of the
Black people in the manifestation of Black
Consciousness; -
--- Sorry, where are you reading?
At the bottom of page 23, the resolution itself.
--- Okay.
n(a) to direct the cultural orientation of the
Black people in the manifestation of Black
consciousness;
(b) to restore those values that bind Black people
culturally;
(c) to organise Black poetry reading gro ups;
(d) to circulate reading material, and mal,:e
accessible / •••
10 I
20
3C
- 4696 - BIKO
accessible vlorks of wTi ters on Black poetry,
drama and literature;
(e) to exploit Black theatre as a means of the
manifestation of Black Consciousness"
--- Yes.
n(f) to urge students to involve themselves actively
in the abovementioned cultural acti vi ty" - Ul1f\nimous lrith
acclaim - does that mean ,·mat it says? --- Yes, sure.
So the Black theatre Has Boing to be exploited as
a means of the manifestation of Black consciousness, ru1d J.O
I think especially the next Resolution 62 of 1971 it
throw's further light on that and I see you \'lere the
seconder of that motion which \Vas unanimously adopted '!
--- Yes.
--
IIThat this GSC - realising the need to consolidate
the usage of poetry, prose and drama as a weapon
for arousing the awareness of a people;
Yes.
"Then instructs the Executive to make attempts
towards the establishment of a country-wide 20
cultural union to further correlate the valuable
work done by these groupsll
That is correct.
Does that mean in fact "rvhat it says? -- YeG, I
think I have said so before.
~~. Biko, I see in Resolution 83 of 1971
apparently the Constitution "las amended to read under point
(iv) :
"Any member of the Executive Committee vrho acts
against the interests of the organisation shall 3G
be / •••
BIRO
be asked and/or forced to resign"
Do you see that? --- Yes.
Was that section ever used by SASO to your
knowledge? --- Yes it was used.
When was that? --- Against rJlr. Temba Sono.
Can you perhaps detail for us the circumstances
of that particular Sono incident? --- \,1 ell , he issued
what vIe regarded as a very important policy statement.
Where ''las this delivered? --- At a conference
of SASO on the opening day during a tiDe w'hen all the 1 0
Press was there, he issued a very important policy
statement w'hich differed substantially ,.n. th established
SASO policy, and he did this vTi thout consulting the
Executive, his paper Has never seen by atl0'body up to
the moment when it was delivered. ''Ie t h our;ht that he
''las attempting to get leverage, you kn011 , to lever t h e
"\'lhole position in the direction that he \'1as thinking by
using that moment of maximum publici ty, so l'fe thought
that he was acting against the interests of the
organisation and SASO.
Vn1at was it that he said that you people objected
to? --- Well in a sense he v-ras advocating collaboration
with Bantustans to some extent, he vias advocating
coalition with liberal groups, and he vlas generally
admonishing SASO on its stance, you knO\'T, -vrith reearcl to
the t vlo groups. It was not so much that he cOtJ~d not
say this, he could l1ave said t he s e things openly at 3
meeting, what we sa,\'T as being ami ss 1'10..0 the uhole conduct
in saying tho s e things , choo s ing a moment vrhen t he r e lTO tllQ
20
be maximum publicity, and choo s ing a moment llhen t here 1'18.8 ) ()
no / •••
- 4698 - BIRO
no debate, he "Tas just delivering an address in place
of someone they had invited '\'rho did not come. Jo
that the newspapers ,{ere going to give some kind of
report to say SASO president says A, B, C and D, ";hich
gives a whole different slant to our policy, so
because he did this vTe kicked him out.
Was there rulY policy Resolution 't'lhich he infringed
in giving his address? --- Yes, I have just named tlvO.
Had you at that stage adopted a firm stance on
homelands and liberals? --- Yes.
And ,,;as there to be no collaboration at all ui th
either of those tvTO, or did you allo1v certain
collaboration? --- vlell the Resolution relnting for
instance to multiracial organisations \"las reasonably
flexible to allo,.; for distant and meaninful student
contact for instance in areas of research. 1'1112. t 11e
said was that there would be no political coalition
betvleen us and them, and "That Sono vras directine himseli
to as far as I remember 'Has political coalition lTi th
10
these groups, he even mentioned the Special Branch as 20
far as I remember.
\Vould you perhaps look at the ~linutes of that
3rd GSC which I think you did attend, is that correct?
--- Yes.
SASO C.l, Milord, you were chairman of the planning
commission I see? --- Tlmt is correct.
At this particular GSC. If you "t·/ould have a look
at the list of delegates firstly v;hich begins on page 2a,
page 85 of Your Lordship's papers, have you got that, it
has got Council delegates, Bxecutive? --- Right.
At / •..
30
I
Collection Number: AD1719
State v S Cooper and 8 others.
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Document ID:- AD1719-Vol82 Document Title:- Volume 82, Page 4677 - 4739.