In Conversation: Art and Business in the Age of COVID-19with Debrah Dunner and Caitlin Berry

Debrah Dunner (DD): Hi Caitlin, these are certainly strange times we are living through right now. I am sure you are feeling just as unmoored as I am with the discon-nected, yet trying very hard to be present and online, art-world. For me, it’s been a little tough to maintain the same level of business as before since most of my relationships are built on in-person events, i.e. exhibition openings, art

fairs, and educational programming.

Caitlin Berry (CB): Debrah, I think you hit the nail on the head choosing the word “unmoored.” For the first few weeks of the shelter in place orders, I felt a bit untethered. The landscape seemed to be changing every day and there was sort of a dark cloud of fear and uncertainty hanging over the art world, not to mention the world at large. At some point, I sort of snapped back into my goal-minded self and started getting creative.

Image: Russ Hickman

Image: Albert TingDD: What have you been doing to try and preserve your business?

CB: This pandemic affects everyone so uniquely. That means all bets are off for the usual cadence of interacting with clients, vendors, and colleagues. Creating content for the digital world has been key. Ramping up my Instagram has allowed clients to engage as they wish and not feel pressured to transact. An inviting, consistent and reassuring social media presence has yielded several new connections and opportunities.

When a client seeks the advice of an appraiser, I often take that to mean they are anticipat-ing change and may need to move art in or out of their collection. Is that usually the case? If so, how your clients are reacting to this moment of uncertainty? How are you tailoring your business to fit?

DD: Appraisal needs don’t always correlate with moving art in or out of a collection. I have a lot of clients contact me because they want to keep their art in their collection. They need to either submit an appraisal report to their insurance company to have the artwork added to their homeowner’s policy, or they need an appraisal update because their work has appreciated, and it’s under-insured. Other reasons clients need an apprais-al could include adding work to their collection or donating to a charitable organization. I also conduct Damage and Loss appraisals, Estate Planning, and Equitable Distribution. Additionally, heirs sometimes need to provide appraisals for Personal Property to Probate Courts, or even the IRS, if it’s a sizeable estate.

If my clients have artwork that still needs to be appraised, regardless of the reason, we can make it work. We have such useful tools to our fingertips to facilitate the appraisal needs of my clients. I have done inspections virtually, assessed items for sale by pictures; there are a lot of ways to view an artwork without having to always be in person. If I feel that a personal inspection is necessary, I always make arrangements to do so safely. My clients have been comfortable with my precautionary measures.

You recently made a big announcement regarding a new roster of artists you now repre-sent; can you tell me about how that took form after starting your consulting business just 1 year ago? Also, now that you have added an additional layer to your professional ser-vices, how do you plan on moving forward with building that aspect of your company? Do you have plans to add more artists, or move into a brick and mortar space?

CB: My experiences working for private dealers and galleries has given me a clear view into working with secondary market works of art and living artists in tandem, often seeing that one side of the business can support the other. When I started my advisory business a year ago, I wanted to focus more on the secondary market side of dealing. That said, I’ve always wanted to work with artists directly, in a fuller way than my advisory work typical-ly allows. My current stable is comprised of artists whose work I’ve come to know deep-ly. Each of them is in possession of an enviable work ethic. Their practices are deep and broad, and they show an intellectual tenacity that is key to longevity in art making. I aspire to create opportunities for them on an international scale using a collaborative and inno-vative approach. Of course, I hope that as the business grows, I will be able to serve and represent more artists. Right now, these four are keeping me busy!

A physical space likely isn’t in the cards for me at this moment in time. The gallery clo-sures caused by the pandemic leveled the playing field in a way. Since everyone is showing art virtually, I thought if not now, when? Artsy.net is a highly effective tool to leverage exposure for both the artists I represent and art I deal with on the secondary market. I’ve already been in touch with collectors from Budapest to Brussels. A brick and mortar space

is a likely part of the 5 year plan, but the landscape may look completely different by then. One day at a time.

You also just started a new role with Freemans as a regional representative for the DC area – congratulations! How does one side of your business inform the other? How does the auction world challenge you in a different way than appraisals?

DD: Thank you! I am very excited to embark on this partnership. I have been running my Appraisal and Consulting business for 7 years now, and I was ready to take things to the next level. Over the years I have had countless collectors contact me because they needed an appraisal in order to sell something; this is a common misconception. You don’t need to pay for an appraisal if you want to sell. I began brokering consignments with various auction houses around the country depending on the property the client wanted to sell. I approached Freeman’s early last year for that exact reason; A client wanted to sell a very nice work of art, and I knew they would provide a lot of opportunity to maximize the sale. I have always viewed Freeman’s Auction with a lot of respect; they employ highly educat-ed, professional, and knowledgeable specialists. Over the course of the year, our relation-ship evolved. I am really pleased to be a part of such a top-notch team.

As for challenges, I find the skill sets are very similar. Researching an artwork or artist in order to make an informed conclusion of value can in some ways follow a similar path to deciding on the right estimate to offer for sale. Taking a look at all markets, in order to be the most informed to support any opinions you make. Estimating artwork for sale is often a strategy that has to be approached in a way that will maximize profit for both the con-signor and the auction house. For an appraisal, the Intended Use and the Intended Users are very important components to the scope of work. These are some of the differences in the valuation services I provide, however the research often overlaps.

What other projects do you have on the back burner that you expect to jumpstart once social distancing order has been lifted?

CB: I plan to get back to in person meetings with advisory clients for one. Zoom is a great platform for staying connected but can never really replace the energy created in person. Before everything was shut down, I was working on organizing a pop-up exhibition in my hometown, Birmingham, AL, bringing work by DC artists to that area. There is a sizable appetite for contemporary art there and quite serious collectors. I look forward to moving that ball down the court once the stay at home orders are lifted.

DD: Now, let’s steer the conversation away from the business end to the part we all love, the Art. Right now, all the museums and galleries are shuttered, severely limiting access to the artwork and collections we hold near and dear to us. What do you have in your own private collection that has been getting you through this period of staying at home?

CB: Yes, the art! I am fortunate to have built a small collection over the years that brings me joy every day. Some are pieces I sought out over time and some were very generously given to me by artists. Right now, a text based piece by Brooklyn-based Alex Gingrow brings me the most joy. I love language and word play and Prince so it’s divine. A small Haas Brothers x L’Objet monster I found at the Bass MoA in 2018 is also a favorite - it’s so full of whimsy and takes me outside myself.

You have an impressive collection as well! Are there pieces that have renewed energy for you now that you are home and looking at your walls?

Alex Gingrow, Purple Rain and a Passing Train, 2017, watercolor, gesso and graphite on paper, 7 1/4” x 8 1/2”

DD: Well, I have been working from home since 2014, so the stay-at-home order has only affect-ed my work output because now my family is home with me, causing distractions (toddlers are very needy)! But I am always looking for new work to collect. I recently purchased a woven tapestry by Erin M. Riley. I also have the print Lip Adornment from Lauren Kalman’s Hard Wear series. If you are not familiar with Lauren’s work, I highly suggest you check her out; she was a metals major, but she uses the skills she learned working with precious metals to

investigate the constructions of craft, the body, and the environment through performanc-es using her body. What’s left is the documentation from her performances.

Outside of the artist’s you now represent, what are some other artists or artworks you have been eyeing to bring into your personal collection?

Lauren Kalman, Lip Adornment, 2006, Giclee. 23 x 32 in.

CB: I am certainly afflicted with a constant need to look at art. A lot of works I love are beyond my reach, but this is a fantasy question, right? Outside the artists I represent, I have been angling to acquire a painting by Hedieh Javanshir Ilchi. Her dreamy paint pours coupled with painstaking miniature Iranian patterns are simply exquisite. Now I’m dying to know what has your eye! Who are you looking at? Hedieh Javanshir Ilchi, The Space In-Be-

tween, 2020, acrylic and watercolor on panel, 16” x 16”

DD: I was planning on going to New York City last month to purchase an artwork I have on hold, but unfortunately that trip didn’t work out. I am really looking forward to get-ting up there and finally buying a Power of the Purse bag by Michele Pred. Although I am a Fine Art specialist, I tend to collect artists that work with materials often associated with Craft. However, I don’t agree with those outdated distinctions. There are many high-ly skilled and talented contemporary artists working with materials outside of traditional mediums of paintings and sculpture. It’s all Art.

And finally, who are some of the artists that you are watching that you think more people will become aware of in the next year or so?

CB: All the artists I represent: Lisa Armstrong Noble, Caitlin Teal Price, Joseph Shetler and Eric Uhlir. They’re all dynamite. I also think Baltimore artist Jerrell Gibbs and New York artist Sarah Slappey are on rocket ships to stardom, which is so cool because they are the nicest people in addition to being crazy talented.

Who are you watching in DC specifically that you think is on the verge of a breakout?

DD: Well, I thought it was so wonderful when you an-nounced you were representing Caitlin Teal Price because she is a phenomenal artist doing really important and en-during things for this region. I think she deserves to have a higher profile than she already does, so I hope to see her become more widely recognizable and collected. I am sure you have big plans for her!

Outside of D.C., there are countless artists I am watching. Roberto Lugo, Bisa Butler, Amir Fallah, Sonya Clark, just to name a few. I am also very closely watching the auction market for more established artists such as Sheila Hicks, Leon Berkowitz, and Sam Gilliam, who’s market has sky-rocketed over the past five years. It’s a very exciting time to be involved in the art world!Roberto Lugo, The Notorious B.I.G. / bell

hooks Teapot, 2016 Porcelain, china paint, and gold luster, 13 x 10 x 6 1/2 in.

This conversation took place in May 2020. Debrah Dunner is an appraiser and founder of Aesthetica Art Services (aestheticaart.com and @aesthetica_art_services) and a Regional Representative with Freeman’s Auction House. Caitlin Berry is a fine art dealer/advisor and founder of Caitlin Berry Fine Art (caitlinberryfineart.com and @cberryfineart).