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publiusenigma.com Listen Read Think Communicate FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in mutus liber Goto page Previous 1 , 2 , 3 ... 12 , 13, 14 , 15 , 16 , 17 Next publiusenigma.com Forum Index -> Communicate View previous topic :: View next topic Author Message BIOSFUBAR Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 160 Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:32 am Post subject: What the Monument Tells Us Armed with all these clues, its time to look directly at the monument and let it speak for itself. If it is a marker of some future catastrophe, then exactly how does it tell us this? And, even more important, does it tell us when? At first glance, the monument divides itself into three basic components; the upper cross, the column or pillar and the pedestal base. The upper cross has three symbolic components, the pillar is its own symbol and the base has four symbols for a total of eight symbolic images. We can think of the entire monument as a schematic, exploded view perspective of a single geometrical egg, the philosopher's stone. The upper cross' three symbolic components are the INRI inscription, the double X's and the oddly broken Latin inscription. These symbols offer us three inter-related meaning systems, which, when taken together, give us the key to understanding the entire process symbolized by the monument. The pillar offers us a unifying image that cuts across all scales of interpretation. The base's four symbols must be taken as a unit, one in which the order and meaning of the symbolic components are in a constant state of flux, but the nature of the whole is constant. The images are, starting in the east and going counter-clockwise: 1) an eight- rayed star-burst, 2) an oddly shaped half moon/boat with an eye spot marking, 3) an angry sun face with bulging spiral eyes, dumb-bell shaped mouth and prominent chin; the face is surrounded by 16 large spikes and 16 smaller spikes inside a containing outer circle. The sun circle itself is surrounded by four stars, placed in the corners of the rectangle and tilted so that their diagonal axis continues through the center point of the sun face, and 4) an oval that fills the entire space of the rectangle and contains a cross with four A's in it. The A's are unusual, having a sharply angled cross bar nestled in the top angle of each A, rather than the usual horizontal cross bar.

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Page 1: publiusenigma.com Forum Index -> Communicate View previous ... · Given Fulcanelli's identification of the double Xs by means of one of the images on the base, we can only surmise

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BIOSFUBAR

Joined: 17 Jan 2004Posts: 160

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:32 am Post subject:

What the Monument Tells Us

Armed with all these clues, its time to look directly at the monument and let it speak foritself. If it is a marker of some future catastrophe, then exactly how does it tell us this?And, even more important, does it tell us when?

At first glance, the monument divides itself into three basic components; the upper cross,the column or pillar and the pedestal base. The upper cross has three symboliccomponents, the pillar is its own symbol and the base has four symbols for a total of eightsymbolic images. We can think of the entire monument as a schematic, exploded viewperspective of a single geometrical egg, the philosopher's stone.

The upper cross' three symbolic components are the INRI inscription, the double X's andthe oddly broken Latin inscription. These symbols offer us three inter-related meaningsystems, which, when taken together, give us the key to understanding the entire processsymbolized by the monument.

The pillar offers us a unifying image that cuts across all scales of interpretation.

The base's four symbols must be taken as a unit, one in which the order and meaning ofthe symbolic components are in a constant state of flux, but the nature of the whole isconstant. The images are, starting in the east and going counter-clockwise: 1) an eight-rayed star-burst, 2) an oddly shaped half moon/boat with an eye spot marking, 3) anangry sun face with bulging spiral eyes, dumb-bell shaped mouth and prominent chin; theface is surrounded by 16 large spikes and 16 smaller spikes inside a containing outercircle. The sun circle itself is surrounded by four stars, placed in the corners of therectangle and tilted so that their diagonal axis continues through the center point of thesun face, and 4) an oval that fills the entire space of the rectangle and contains a crosswith four A's in it. The A's are unusual, having a sharply angled cross bar nestled in thetop angle of each A, rather than the usual horizontal cross bar.

As a whole, the monument gives us a symbol set order that can be expressed as (3 + (1)

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As a whole, the monument gives us a symbol set order that can be expressed as (3 + (1)+ 4). Here, we need only note the essential octave structure of the monument'ssymbolism with its suggestion of a spiraling mechanism.

Interpreting the Message

Now, let's look at each symbolic component in depth. Once we have an understanding ofeach image, then we will try to put them together into the overall meaning.

A) The Upper Cross

1) The INRI inscription - With this image we are placed firmly within the RosicrucianAlchemical tradition. As Fulcanelli tells us, this inscription can be interpreted as one of thekey maxims of alchemy: Igne Natura Renovatur Integra or "By fire nature is renewedwhole." It is also Igne Nitrum Raris Invenitum or "The shining is rarely found in fire."Perhaps a more accurate way to view these four letters is as the initial letters of theHebrew names of the elements: Yam, water, Yod or I; Nour, fire, Nun or N; Ruach, air,Resh or R; and Yebeshas, earth, and Yod or I again. (See Figure B.)

In the Golden Dawn, these letters were considered the "Key Word" and subjected to apeculiar sort of gnostic and kabbalistic analysis. First the four letters are converted intotheir Hebrew equivalents as for the elements. These letters are then given their Yetsiratic,that is zodiacal and planetary, correspondences: Yod = Virgo; Nun = Scorpio; Resh = TheSun; and back to Yod = Virgo.

From this a pattern can be abstracted: Life, Death, Resurrection and New Life. The GoldenDawn then applied Egyptian god forms to these concepts: Life = Isis; Death = Apophis;Resurrection = Osiris. From this they derived the name of the Gnostic High God IAO.These vowels had long been associated with a mysticism of light, as shown by theirprominence in the Bahir, a work of Hebrew mercabah mysticism.

We should also keep in mind that another version of INRI can be read as Isis NaturaeRegina Ineffabilis or "Isis, the undefinable Queen of Nature." In Hebrew, the value of theletters, Yod =10, Nun = 50, Resh = 200, and another Yod, equals 270, which is the valueof the Hebrew word "bar" or lever." The number 270 is of course one of the precessionalnumbers, as 8, the value of all the symbols in the monument, times 270 = 2160, or thenumber of solar cycles in one precessional month (12 x 2160 = 25,920 years, or onecomplete precessional cycle or year).

Therefore, our first symbol tells us of a basic elemental pattern, that oflife/death/resurrection, which is related to the mysteries of light, the fire where theshining can be found, and the precessional cycle caused by the earth's tilted axis.

2) The Double X's - On the top piece of the cross, on the opposite side from the INRIinscription and above the Latin inscription are two X's stacked one on top of the other.The first impression is that of the Roman numeral twenty written vertically. Fulcanelli goesto great lengths to call our attention to it without giving the most obvious meaning, thatof Trump or Atu or Key XX of the Tarot, the Last Judgment. He does tell us that healready knew the meaning from looking at the images on the pedestal, where the LastJudgment is indeed portrayed.

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Fulcanelli is not misleading us however. The snake of the ecliptic is very important, even ifit is nowhere else attributed to the Greek Khi. The pattern formed by the two X's on top ofeach other is indeed a diagram of the ecliptic, with the cross mark of the Xs showing theequinoxes. It is also a pattern for the transmutation of the elements, viewing theirsymbols, bared and unbarred triangles, as the Xs themselves.

This symbol tells us that the Last Judgment is the time when the elements, described bythe INRI inscription, align in the right way, X marks the spot, on the equinoxes. (SeeFigure C.)

3) The Latin Inscription - Given the love of cryptograms by everyone who has ever beeninvolved with this mystery, we should be very cautious here. Fulcanelli himself warns that"in reality, we should carry carelessness and ignorance to the pitch of disregarding theelementary rules of grammar." He also recommends "plain common sense, logic andreasoning."

When we apply that to the Latin inscription, we do not get a complex anagram kind ofcode. It must be something simple and virtually in plain sight.

The obvious meaning, "Hail O Cross, the Only Hope," should not be discarded, but,applied to the Xs above, can point to a heavenly cross as much as to anything Christian.But the odd split does suggest a hidden meaning. Given Fulcanelli's insistence on an S orsnake interpretation, it is curious that spes backward is seps, or snake. Reading this wordbackward produces "Hail, O Cross, The Only Snake," another reference to the eclipticperhaps. Pes, or foot, is clearly shown, although unica does not agree with it. However, ifwe transpose two letters in unica, we have uncia, or "the 12th part." This agrees with pesand can be translated "the measure of the 12th part." If we look at the top line, we areleft with two letters that are not really needed, the o and the s. Putting these together atthe beginning of the sentence gives us Os crux ave pes uncia, or "The essence of the crosssalutes the measure of the 12th part." We can also read it as Os crux ave spes/sepsunica, or "The essence of the cross salutes the Only Hope/Snake."

From all of these, we get an immediate complex of meanings. Just from a glance at theinscription, we can tell that the secret concerns a cross and a snake which somehowmeasures the 12th part. The inscription is telling us that the monument is a way tomeasure when the snake and the crosses coincide. It also suggests that this knowledge isour only hope.

B) The Pillar

This is the single symbol in itself that unifies the whole vision. It is the world axis, thespine of the world, the world tree and the tree of life simultaneously. The Egyptiansthought of it as the Djed, the backbone of Osiris, the polar axis of the planet and thegalactic meridian. It is the stable axis through the center of the galaxy that anchors themoving axis of the precession of the equinoxes. The Egyptians celebrated a re-alignmentof the Djed pillar every 27, 54 and 108 years. These are of course our precessionalnumbers, reduced by a factor of ten.

Here, it suggests that a Djed-like function, that of precessional re-alignment, is theconnecting concept between the symbolic meaning of the upper cross and how thismeaning is played out in the multi-leveled cross of the base.

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meaning is played out in the multi-leveled cross of the base.

C) The Base or Pedestal

Given Fulcanelli's identification of the double Xs by means of one of the images on thebase, we can only surmise that one of these four images was indeed meant to representthe Tarot trump The Last Judgment. From the amount of space Fulcanelli devotes to itsexplication, the image of the oval and the four As is the most likely candidate for the LastJudgment image.

Which leaves the star, the moon and the sun, images that Fulcanelli does not comment onat all. He does however go on at great length about the four-fold attributes of the LastJudgment, insisting that we pay attention to the four evangels and their kerubic forms.Fortunately, all of this relates to the pedestal as a whole as much or more than it relatesto the four As of the Last Judgment.

To understand this, we must spend some time ordering space in Rosicrucian terms. Webegin with the directions, east, south, west, north. Each of these directions has an inner,or micro-cosmic, arrangement of elemental qualities and an outer or macro-cosmicarrangement. Therefore, East = both air & fire; South = both fire & earth; West = bothwater & air; and North = both earth & water. Note the crossing over mixture of active andpassive elements, from active/active to passive/passive. This directional and elementalmatrix gives us a form around which to spiral the different meanings of the images on thebase. (See Figure D.)

Once we have our directions and their elemental quality, then we must align the images.with them Fulcanelli tells us that the front of the monument is the side with the INRIinscription. This is also the face with the Star image, and should be placed facing the east.If we do that, then the sun is facing west, the moon is facing north and the LastJudgmentthe four As, is facing south. Since we have identified one of these images as aTarot card, it is easy to see the other three as their equivalent cards, number XVII, TheStar, number XVIII, The Moon and number XIX, The Sun. (See Figure E.)

Reading the images in their tarot card order produces a counterclockwise, or packing,

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Reading the images in their tarot card order produces a counterclockwise, or packing,flow, in both the macro-cosmic and micro-cosmic order. Starting in the east and readingclockwise unfolds both cosmic patterns in their unpacking, unfolding into being, order.These two patterns symbolize the "divine cross above" and "global cross" below thatFulcanelli mentions. From this we can also see the intersection of the counterclockwiseprecessional motion and the clockwise yearly motion of the sun. (See Figure F.)

Just from this, without any further identification of the images, we have validated themeaning of the upper cross. The monument does act as a device set to measure theintersection of these two great cycles. The X mark where the snakes cross.

However, our Rosicrucian usage suggests that there is even more ways to develop thispattern. The initiates of the Rose Cross used five more patterns to move elemental energythrough the circle. These are the three "flash" patterns and two cross patterns which fill inthe interior of the circle with a crossed square design. (See Figure G.)

The flashes can be thought of as the lightning flash of creation, the flash of identity, andthe anti-flash of destruction. The flashes are internal or micro-cosmic processes, so theelemental attributions don't shift, just the direction of the flow. To help see the pattern,let's label the images: A = Star, B = Moon, C = Sun and D = Judgment.

The lightning flash of creation then becomes: D, fire; C, water; A, air; B, earth. The flashof identity is A, air, C, water; B, earth; and D, fire. This flash folds back in on itself acrossthe center, hence its sense of identity. The anti-flash is actually the reverse of the flash,going B, A, C, D. The meaning behind the flash patterns lies in the arrangement of thefour letters in YHVH. The lightning flash is the creational pattern of nature, spelling out

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four letters in YHVH. The lightning flash is the creational pattern of nature, spelling outYHVH. The flash of identity involves the center point, which is thought of as Shin, theletter Sh, which transforms the natural YHVH into YHShVH, or Joshua, Yeheshua or Jesus.In this view, Jesus is the very self-reflexive light of sentience itself.

The crosses come in two kinds, micro and macro. The micro-cosmic cross, that is formingthe cross of the elements in the micro-cosmic order, (A, B, D ,C) creates a mirror imageof the flash, a sort of reflected flash. This represents the reflexive nature of internalcreation. The macro-cosmic cross, that is forming the cross of the elements from themacro-cosmic order, (C, D, A, B) creates a counterclockwise flow similar to theprecessional pattern, except that this one is half the zodiac off, starting in the west, notthe east.

These patterns define a way of balancing elemental qualities within the interlocking flow ofprecessional forces and solar forces. These forces manifest the same way on both theinternal, micro, and the external, macro, levels of being. The internal forces of the flashdefine the process of centropic sentience in nature, and is a reflection of thelife/death/resurrection pattern of the upper cross. The patterns formed by the cross of theelements serve to unite the internal and the external process.

Taken as a whole, the base seems to be a symbolic measuring device that demonstrateshow to unite events on an internal spiritual plane with events taking place on a planetaryand galactic scale. This becomes clearer as we move to the meaning of the symbolicimages themselves.

The Star, in the Tarot, has the kabbalistic value of 90 and is attributed to the zodiacalsign Aquarius. The Moon has the value of 100 and is the sign Pisces. The Sun has a valueof 200 and is the Sun. The Last Judgment has the value of 300 and is the element of fire.Very simply then we read Aquarius/Pisces Sun and (spiritual) fire. Adding their valuestogether gives us 690, an interesting number. In Hebrew it has the same value as thewords "candlestick" and "palm tree," a reference to the menorah and the Djed pillar.However 690 is also the number of years it takes for a lunar eclipse to return to any pointin the year, say from winter solstice back to winter solstice. (See Figure H.)

And here we come to a dead end. The patterns can be interpreted for more insight, butbasically we are stumped by the puzzle at this point. We have a monument that definesthe cross above and the cross below, which is related to the precession of the equinoxesand the Last Judgment. But without a further clue, we can't make our cosmic clock giveus the correct time.

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The clue lies within Fulcanelli's insistence that we pay attention to the four kerubic beasts.These are the lion, the eagle, the man and the bull, which can be equated with the fourfixed signs of the Zodiac, Leo, Scorpio, Aquarius and Taurus. Even this clue is not quiteenough to help us. It does nothing to orient our calculating monument in space/time.

But, here comes Paul Mevryl to the rescue. Twice, out of context, Mevryl mentions Horusthe Elder and Horus-in-the-horizon. This is of course the Sphinx and the Sphinx in thesky, the constellation of Leo. This helps, since Virgo/Leo is the opposite of Aquarius/Pisces.But we still don't have a starting time for our calculations.

The Golden Dawn however has retained a bit of ancient knowledge that allows us to alignour calculating monument. The knowledge lecture on astrology contains the interestingtidbit that if you want to have the constellations in the sky and the earthly houses to lineup properly, you must start with Leo on the spring Equinox. (See Figure I.) If we do this,the monument comes to life and produces a date where the snakes cross in the sky. Ourpoint of hope or destruction.

A quick review:

The upper cross is telling us three simple statements. 1) There is an elemental pattern,life/death/resurrection, which is related to the precessional cycle and the renewal of theworld by fire. 2) The Last Judgment is the moment when the Xs, the equinoxes, alignproperly. 3) The monument is designed to measure when the snakes and the crossescoincide, the measure of the 12th part, or the end of a thirteen thousand year cycle.

The pillar, the Djed, grounds us in the local space/time of our galaxy and solar system. Itpoints to a mechanism that re-aligns the planet as the equinoxes precess through theecliptic.

The base shows us the four-fold pattern of the fixed signs of the zodiac and how to alignboth zodiacal and elemental qualities in the local cube of space. We can think of this asthe global cross in contrast to the divine cross symbolized by the upper cross of themonument. It also defines a local time keeping mechanism, that of the grand lunar eclipsecycle of 690 years, the time it takes a lunar eclipse to proceed from one solstice to thenext. (12 months x 11.5 years, the time it takes a full moon to go from solstice tosolstice, x 5, the number of full moons between one solstice and the next, = 690 years for

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solstice, x 5, the number of full moons between one solstice and the next, = 690 years fora grand lunar eclipse cycle. It is also 30 times the 23 years in a full moon cycle = 690years.)

Now using Leo on the spring equinox as our starting point, our first X, we arrive at a dateof 10,958 BC. Imagine that we are standing between the paws of the newly built Sphinx,looking east just before dawn. It is the night of the full moon, 69 years after the last lunareclipse on the spring equinox. The moon is low behind the Giza plateau when, about anhour before dawn, Regulus, the heart of the Lion rises in the east. Soon Regulus is joinedby the fiery glow of Mars, rising just before the sun. As the sun rises, it enters theconstellation Leo and crosses the Vernal Equinox.

If this is the first X, the starting point, then the other X, which must match or align with it,must be the end point. We might think that would the point where the spring equinoxreturned to Leo, but this produces a date so far in the future, the 15th millennium afterCommon Era, as to be useless. Maybe it does point to that time as well, but it isn'trelevant to us. The Xs suggest that a similarity between both equinoxes, spring andautumn, is the key. The macro-cosmic cross pattern formed from the images on the basesuggests that the key moment occurs when the same images appear at the opposite pointin time.

Which means that if Regulus in Leo rose before the sun on the spring equinox, themonument is telling us to look for the opposite point in time, when Regulus again risesbefore the sun as it enters Leo and crosses the Autumnal Equinox. This gives us ourmoment in time, supported by the image of the sun on the monument, surrounded by fourstars tilted to make the center of the sun face the center of an X. This is an obvioussymbol of the equinox, and at this equinox, September 22, 2002, the sun is framed by twostars on one side, Mars and Jupiter, and two stars on the other side, Venus and Mercury.(See Figure J.)

However, this gives us only one arm or axis of the Divine Cross promised by the uppercross of the monument. The Djed pillar gives the other arm of the cross. The Djed is thegalactic axis or pillar that our local space/time must be re-aligned with as the planetprecesses through the ecliptic. The axis runs from edge to edge of the galaxy through itscenter. From the earth, the center of the galaxy lies at 0 degree of sidereal Sagittarius,

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center. From the earth, the center of the galaxy lies at 0 degree of sidereal Sagittarius,the edge point at 0 degree Gemini. This is an unmoving axis that crosses, as it travelsthrough the plane of the solar system and the orbit of the earth, the moving axis of thelocal precession of the equinoxes.

Now a "cross" as illustrated by the monument implies a 90 degree angle for the crossarms. If the galactic center lies at the beginning of sidereal Sagittarius, then the movingarm should reach exactly 90 degrees at the equinox where the sun enters sidereal Leo.This is of course our target date of September 22, 2002. Therefore the monument pointsto the moment of the alignment of the lower cross of the equinox with the greater crossof the galaxy. (See Figure K)

http://www.sangraal.com/AMET/hendaye.html

Sorry, I'm not a finish carpenter

,but...

Last edited by BIOSFUBAR on Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:33 am; edited 1 time in total

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BIOSFUBAR

Joined: 17 Jan 2004Posts: 160

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:46 am Post subject: I know the pieces fit some how...

Tool:Schism

I know the pieces fit cuz I watched them fall away Mildewed and smoldering. Fundamental differing. Pure intention juxtaposed will set two lovers souls in motion Disintegrating as it goes testing our communication The light that fueled our fire then has burned a hole between us so We cannot see to reach an end crippling our communication.

I know the pieces fit cuz I watched them tumble down No fault, none to blame it doesn't mean I don't desire to Point the finger, blame the other, watch the temple topple over. To bring the pieces back together, rediscover communication

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Posts: 160

The poetry that comes from the squaring off between, And the circling is worth it. Finding beauty in the dissonance.

There was a time that the pieces fit, but I watched them fall away. Mildewed and smoldering, strangled by our coveting I've done the math enough to know the dangers of our second guessing Doomed to crumble unless we grow, and strengthen our communication.

Cold silence has a tendency to atrophy any Sense of compassion Between supposed lovers/brothers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schism

The word schism, from the Greek σχισμα, schisma (from σχιζω, schizo, "to split"), meansa division or a split, usually in an organization. A schismatic is a person who creates orincites schism in an organization or who is a member of a splinter group. Schismatic as anadjective means pertaining to a schism or schisms, or to those ideas, policies, etc. thatare thought to lead towards or promote schism.

Because there'll be no safety in numbers when the Right One walks out the door.

be the bridge that unites = communication???

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darkside76

Joined: 15 Nov 2004Posts: 965Location: Bay Area, Ca.

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:

...cold silence has a tendency to atrophy any sense of compassion...

He's got a way with words. Keep talking Maynard!_________________You are only coming through in waves.

Your lips move but I can’t hear what you’re saying.

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Cordelia Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:39 am Post subject:

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Joined: 13 Apr 2005Posts: 275

_________________Astronomy Domine

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1984

Joined: 26 Mar 2004Posts: 776

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:24 am Post subject:

Quote:

hurricane 1555, from Sp. huracan, from an Arawakan (W. Indies) word variously transcribed ashurakan or furacan.

Arawakan(?) To The Sense Of Reality

ATTSOR

TSOR = TYRE (Tire? Wheel?)

Tyre iמ Hebrew is “Tsor” meaning “Rock”. Tyre is how the Greeks pronounced the nameand perhaps the Phoenicians did as well http://britam.org/isaiah/chap-twenty-three.html

I believe this is also where the word "tyrant" comes from. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=Tyre&searchmode=none

Scorpions "Rock you like a hurricane" (I hate that song!)

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Cordelia

Joined: 13 Apr 2005Posts: 275

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:13 pm Post subject:

BIOSFUBAR wrote:

What the Monument Tells Us...

Bios, this approach is exactly the pattern I see in TDB. Thanks you to bring suchdocument to our view.

The phonetic cabalah or the Argonauts is translated into some kind of visual charades inTDB.

The name Fulcanelli was itself a pun on "Vulcain ailé", that is winged volcano, a metaphor

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The name Fulcanelli was itself a pun on "Vulcain ailé", that is winged volcano, a metaphorfor the Alchemists opus.

We are the "Argo-noots" seeking the Golden Fleece promised by Publius.

We have embarked on our Ship of Fools, this forum, to un-Earth the mysteries of the Sunand the Moon cycles which are, in my opinion, essential components of the Enigma andTDB.

As for PF, this symbolism and methods are to be found in every albums.

The Flying Pig over the four chimneys of Battersea (ANIMALS) is of the same vein. Theflying Boar over the Four Pillars is an image of the sign of Aquarius leading the cosmiccalendar.

~C_________________Astronomy Domine

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innertide

Joined: 04 Feb 2004Posts: 1211Location: we are not all here,because we are not all there.where is there?

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:19 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Us, and them And after all we’re only ordinary men. Me, and you. God only knows it’s not what we would choose to do.

Forward he cried from the rear And the front rank died. And the general sat and the lines on the map Moved from side to side.

Black and blue And who knows which is which and who is who. Up and down. But in the end it’s only round and round.

Haven’t you heard it’s a battle of words The poster bearer cried. Listen son, said the man with the gun There’s room for you inside.

I mean, they’re not gunna kill ya, so if you give ’em a quick short, Sharp, shock, they won’t do it again. dig it? I mean he get off Lightly, ’cos I would’ve given him a thrashing - I only hit him once! It was only a difference of opinion, but really...i mean good manners Don’t cost nothing do they, eh?

Down and out It can’t be helped but there’s a lot of it about. With, without. And who’ll deny it’s what the fighting’s all about?

Out of the way, it’s a busy day I’ve got things on my mind. For the want of the price of tea and a slice The old man died.

could it be after all this time of thinking otherwise, that this song is about men and women?

mars & venus?

just a thought._________________do what you need to do to survive...

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dont be afraid to care. how i wish... how i wish you were here.

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1984

Joined: 26 Mar 2004Posts: 776

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:43 pm Post subject:

You might be right, Nina. That does make sense "a battle of words"

It could be also a representation of how individuals fight for the same reasons as nationsdo---dominance (notice the DOMI in the word?)

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innertide

Joined: 04 Feb 2004Posts: 1211Location: we are not all here,because we are not all there.where is there?

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:58 am Post subject:

yeah im with you on that, mal. and that is always the way i have looked at it.

though something recently had mad me think twice, twice._________________do what you need to do to survive...

dont be afraid to care. how i wish... how i wish you were here.

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Cordelia

Joined: 13 Apr 2005Posts: 275

Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:02 pm Post subject: Another KEY

It's TIME

"If you shoot an arrow on a target, you get a sun dial" -

Genesis wrote: I'm out of time.

Time is based on a sexagesimal system. an hour is made of 60 minutes of 60 secondseach. So there's 3600 secs in an hour.

A Circle is made of 360 degrees.

We measure Time with a RING (wich is a WHEEL) and BELLS (which tell the ARROWShave reach their TARGETS).

If you can't afford a ring, listen to the tolling of the iron bell...

Or WATCH.

Time is sometime circular, sometime elliptical (Genesis extensive use of ellipsises?). Wecannot grasp time. TEMPUS FUGIT...

KARON GNOTHI: Know the Time (know the DIVISIONS of the BELL)

since the invention of the Atomic Clock, time is defined by a PULSE, a BEAT, aHEARTBEAT...

Nowadays, TIME is MONEY (not only on the dark side of the Moon)

In the ancient times, the measure of TIME was the principal activity of the priests-astronomers-astrologers. Following closely the paths of the "errants" (planets), theydiscovered the CYCLICAL patterns of Time.

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discovered the CYCLICAL patterns of Time.

Hence the Return of "Chapter 24". And "everything under the sun is in tune". But do weLISTEN to the tune? do we Tune in, are we Turned on and willing to Drop out?

So they built some kind of devices to code their understanding of Time. Stone circles,pyramids among others.

Time is no longer a personal experience. It is a thing that some people want to steal fromus (because it is money). But does it have a real value for us?

Time is the ultimate Enigma we'll never solve, because we'll always be short of it.

~C_________________Astronomy Domine

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Cordelia

Joined: 13 Apr 2005Posts: 275

Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:49 pm Post subject:

Tarot deck # X (notice the CHIASMUS)

Also notice the figures on each of the four corners. They form the FIXED Cross of theZodiac (TAURUS, LEO, SCORPIO (EAGLE) and AQUARIUS (ANGEL).

Notice the THREE archetypes: SPHINX, SERPENT, HERMANUBIS.

It takes many years to make a (wheel of) fortune.

http://www.tarot.com/about-tarot/library/boneill/wheel

follow the breathe, follow the spirit... of the blindfolded leader: JUSTICE.

Q: Where were you when this all started?

A: OUT OF TIME. (Virtually, in the X and the Y)

~C_________________

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_________________Astronomy Domine

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litewave

Joined: 22 Apr 2004Posts: 306

Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:

Cordelia wrote:

Q: Where were you when this all started?

A: OUT OF TIME. (Virtually, in the X and the Y)

~C

Ok, but what do you mean by X and Y?

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Cordelia

Joined: 13 Apr 2005Posts: 275

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:31 am Post subject:

litewave wrote:

Ok, but what do you mean by X and Y?

XX & XY

~C

Careful with that X, Gene..._________________Astronomy Domine

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Cordelia

Joined: 13 Apr 2005Posts: 275

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:51 am Post subject:

Genesis wrote:

Cordelia's efforts are paying off as each post reveals more of the messages. A chance to unlock the door may be forthcoming. If you're thinking out of time, review previous post,,,it's a must!

_________________Astronomy Domine

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litewave

Joined: 22 Apr 2004Posts: 306

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:55 am Post subject:

Cordelia wrote:

Careful with that X, Gene...

haha, interesting interpretation!

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