faq on macedonia

8/3/2019 FAQ on Macedonia

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HTTP://MY.OPERa.COM/GREECELaOS

Frequently Asked Questions on Macedonia

Compiled by Alexandros Gerbessiotis

(c) Copyright 1992,1993 by Alexandros Gerbessiotis. All rights reserved.

This text may be freely reproduced and redistributed for educational and non-commercial purposes

only, provided that no part of it, including this copyright notice, is to be removed from such a

reproduction or redistribution. The material presented here is based on various sources. These sources

are included at the end of this document or mentioned when first used.

In cases we need to write text in Greek the following transliteration of the greek alphabet will be used:

abgdezhuiklmnjoprstyfxcv

ABGDEZHUIKLMNJOPRSTYFXCV

As an example AUHNAI is spelled A Theta Eta N A I


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The term Macedonia is used to describe the geographic region that evolved into the area called

Macedonia in modern Greece. This area seems to coincide with the area called Macedonia in ancient

times.

Republic of Skopje (or Skopje in short) and Skopjans are the terms used to describe the ex-Socialist

Republic of Yugoslavia and the various ethnic groups living there (especially the ones who call

themselves "Macedonians"). With reference to ancient times the lands of the Republic of Skopje were

divided among various tribes, the Dardanians in the north (including the area where the city of Skopje is

presently located), the Paeonians in the south and the Illyrians in the west.

Ancient Macedonia

Q1) What were the borders of ancient Macedonia?

Thucydides (II 99) defined ancient Macedonia as the area extending to the eastw as far as the

lands of mountain Paggaion, east of river Strymon, to the south to the Thermaikos Bay,

Chalcidice, river Pineios (the border with Thessaly) and the Kambounia mountains, to the north

up to (including) the city of Pella, south of the lands of Paeonians, and to the west to the

mountains (Pindos, Tymfe etc) that separate Macedonia from Epeiros and ancient Illyria

(today's Albania).

Macedonia, as defined by Thucydides, coincides with the region of Macedonia of modern

Greece minus some lands of the Chalcidice prefecture.

In later dates the borders of the Macedonian State (that is, the lands ruled by the Macedonian

Kings) varied and depending on the circumstances it extended westwards up to the Adriatic

Sea, eastwards up to river Evros and beyond, and to the north up to the city of Lychnidon

between the lakes of Brygies and Lyhnetis [the translation of some Greek names into English

may seem weird. Blame me for this.]. References pointing to the borders of the Macedonian

state can be found in Strabo, VII.

The terms Macedonia and Macedonian State may seem analogous to the terms Great Britain

and British Empire.


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Q2) When did the first hellenic tribes reside in the area later called by them Macedonia?

The first hellenic tribes of Dorians and Achaeoi resided in Macedonia in prehistoric times, first

in Emathia near mountain Vermion and later expanded northwards and eastwards to cover the

lands outlined in Question 1. Herodotos mentioned that around the 9th century BC the

Macedonian State had the city of Aegae as its capital and that either Caranos or Perdikkas was

considered the founder of the Macedonian dynasty.

[ Note: The ancient royal city of Aegae is located in modern day Vergine in the Emathia

prefecture of Greece. Excavations which began in 1976 by the late Professor Manolis

Andronikos revealed that the site of the city was indeed located near Vergina and not near

Edessa as many archaeologists, Professor Andronikos included, previously believed. It was

Professor N. G. L. Hammond who in 1968 first suggested that Vergina was the place to look for

Aegae, a belief peculiar even to himself at that time. The first royal tombs in Vergina were

excavated in 1976-1977 and one of them is believed to belong to Philippos II, father ofAlexander the Great.]

According to Herodotos, the Makednoi (Macedonians) who crossed Doris and moved to

Peloponnesos were later called Dorians. Since the term Dorians is much more well known than

the term Makednoi we shall also use it to identify the latter people in the discussion to follow.

The Dorians who formed the Macedonian state came in contact with the local Pelasgic

population whose size was much smaller than the one residing at the sea shores and the islands

of Southern Greece. It is for this reason that German Historian K. Belloch considered the

Macedonians the purest Greeks of any other part of Greece (Gr. Geschichte, I, 1a, p92). TheDorians(Makednoi) of Macedonia were larger in number than those who moved southwards.

This is because those who moved southwards were reduced in number either due to attrition

or to settlements in the areas they visited along their movement to Southern Greece.

Such a place of permanent residence for some Makednoi(Dorians) was Doris. When these

Dorians (known until then as Makednoi only) moved to Peloponnesos they became known

there as Dorians (that is, the people [coming] from Doris).

Q3) What is the meaning of the word 'Macedon'? References.

The word Macedon (Gk: Makedvn) is very likely to come from the greek word 'makednos' first

mentioned in Homer's Odyssey (Od. H106), and later by Herodotos, who called 'Makednon

eunos' the various Doric tribes among which he included the Macedonians (Her. I.56, VIII.43).

The word 'Makednos' has the meaning of long, tall, and highlander. Some archaeologists

believe that the Macedonians were called so because they were tall. Nowadays the meaning of


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'highlander' is more prevalent. This is because Macedonians used to live early in prehistoric

times in the mountains of Vermio in Greece.

The greek words Macetia (Gk: MAKETIA) and Macetae (Gk: MAKETAI) were also used in early

times to identify Macedonia and the Macedonians.

The biblic Hettieim or Kitim and Kitiaioi originate from Maketia and Maketai.

Hesiod in Theogonia, written in the middles of 8th century BC, claimed that Makednos and

Magnes who used to live in the lands around mountain Olympos and Pieria were sons of Zeus

and Thyias, daughter of Deukalion. This suggests that the other Greeks of that time believed

that the Macedonians and Magnetes belonged to the same tribe (a hellenic one).

Hellanikos, who lived at the time of Herodotos, considered Macedon son of Aeolos.

Apollodoros considered Macedon son of Lykaon and thus grandson of the king of Argos

Pelasgos and Lykaon king of Arcadians whose 50 sons became leaders of various greek tribes.On the other hand Aelianos considered Lykaon, King of Emathia and Pindos, son of Macedon.

Aeschylus, in Iketidai, had the king of Argos Pelasgos boasting that his family was ruling the

lands beyond Pindos and Dodoni up to river Strymon (that is including Macedonia, the one part

of modern day Greece).

Q4) The Macedonian state until the end of the 6th century BC.

The Macedonians until the 6th century BC lived isolated from the other Greeks a pastoral life

known as transhumant pastoralism moving their herds to the mountain pastures in the springand to the lowland pastures in the winter (see N. G. L. Hammond).

Their language was affected by the way of their life and was not as linguistically developed as

that of Athens. Macedonians built their houses on hilltop and well-protected areas and retained

the lifestyle of the original Dorians possibly emphasized by the need of intermittent wars

needed to preserve their own existence.

A German historian and linguist, O. Hoffmann, considered Macedonians a greek tribe that first

lived in the mountains of Pindos then moved towards the lands of river Haliakmon and in some

unknown time towards the valley of river Axios.

The first contact between the Macedonians and other Greeks (those of Chalcidice) occurred at

the end of the 6th century BC when Amyntas I, father of Alexander I, conquered Anthemounta

in Chalcidice. This contact terminates the isolationism of the Macedonian State and signifies a

new era of participation in the events taking place in the hellenic world by forging alliances with


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various city-states, becoming an enemy of other ones, and switching sides, as fit to the interests

of the State.

There are some people who advocate the thesis that the Macedonians were not Greek. An

English archaeologist, St. Casson, observed that it was difficult to give a definition of what could

be considered 'hellenic'. If one, according to him, included in such a definition everything found

north or south of the Korinthos bay (in Peloponnesos, Southern Greece) between the 10th and

8th century BC, then Macedonia should be considered greek. The people, according to Casson,

living in Macedonia were using the same jewels with those living in Sparta, Olympia, Delphoi,

Aegina, and Argos. This at least proves the close relations of the people living in these areas in

the first centuries of the 1st millenium BC.

The recent excavations in Vergina confirm the conclusions of Casson for the remaining

centuries.

Q5) What were the relations of Macedonia with the other two Greek Kingdoms of Thessaly

and Epeiros?

Epeiros, Macedonia and Thessaly were all inhabited by Greek tribes. Epeiros, Macedonia and

Thessaly had more in common than any other Greek state. All three were kingdoms

[monarchies], a form of government highly disliked by the Greeks in the South [Sparta being a

sole exception had two kings]. For Epeiros and Macedonia monarchy was the result of the

pastoral life which forced people to live in areas surrounded by mountains and be isolated from

the other Greeks.

Despite references by Thucydides that the Epeirotians were not Greek, excavations in Epeiros in

the 1950s proved such claims of Thucydides to be totally untrue, since it can now be proved

that Molossians, Athamanians, Chaones and Thesprotians and other people living in Epeiros

[known collectively as Epeirotians] were Greek, speaking Greek and writing in Greek throughout

the lifetime of Thucydides and even before that according to the archaeological evidence found

so far.

Ancient Greeks (Iliad P.234) believed that Dodoni in Epeiros was the center of the Hellenic

world and that the names Hellas and Hellenes were first given to the people of Epeiros also

called Graecoi, the root of the English word 'Greek'. For more details we refer to Aristotle'sMeteorologica 352a, 34.

Macedonians were in close contacts with both the Thessalians and the Epeirotians. Marriages

among the members of the royal families of the three kingdoms were common. Olympias,

mother of Alexander the Great, was a Molossian princess. Molossians believed that the founder

of their tribe was Neoptolemos son of homeric Achilles. Macedonians and Epeirotians were


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many times allies in wars against their common enemy, the Illyrians. Diodoros (XV 13)

mentioned that in a single battle following an Illyrian invasion of Macedonia 15,000 Epeirotians

were killed, a quite high number, by the Greek standards of that time.

Q6) What were the relations between the Macedonians and the Illyrians?

The Illyrians were Indoeuropeans and used to live in nowadays Albania and the western-

northwestern part of the Republic of Skopje. They were not a greek tribe. Nowadays Albanians

can be considered descendants of the ancient Illyrians although many other people lived in

Illyria in various times (such as Greeks, Latins, Germans, Slavs, and Turks). The modern albanian

language seems to have greek elements but these elements were most probably introduced in

the older illyrian language during the hellenistic and roman periods and later, in the byzantine

times, when Illyrians appeared to be speaking Greek.

Various authors have supported the thesis that Illyrians and Macedonians belonged to the

same (non-greek) tribe and spoke the same (non-greek) language. Given that it has been

proved beyond any reasonable doubt (see following questions) that the language spoken by

ancient Macedonians was a greek dialect such claims are not true. An ancient writer Polyvios

(XXVII 8,9) wrote that Macedonians were using translators in their contacts with the Illyrians,

which implies that they were not speaking the same language.

Illyrians used to live up to the hellenistic and roman years a primitive life raiding neighboring

areas. Raids by Illyrians, whenever they were able to cross the mountain passes, in Macedonia

and Epeiros were frequent [See also Question 5]. In the early 4th century BC, when the

succession to the Macedonian throne was problematic Illyrians invaded Macedonia andoccupied most of the lands of the Macedonian State. They were driven out of the State only

with the combined efforts of Macedonians, Epeirotians, Thessalians and the settlers of

Chalcidici.

Q7) What was the Macedonian form of government?

It was mentioned in a previous question that the Macedonian State was a kingdom. The form of

government reminded that found in Iliad and Odyssey. The rule of the Macedonian king was

not absolute and his 'hetairoi', as the Macedonian soldiers were called, were consulting the

king sometimes quite vociferously. It was not uncommon even for Alexander the Great to haveto convince his Macedonian soldiers for his future actions and to request their approval. The

institution of 'hetairoi' had its roots in Homer (Iliad D 204, 532, E 663, Z 170,260) where the

Myrmidon soldiers of Achilles were called so.


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Q8) What did ancient Greek writers write about Macedonia?

Aeschylus (Iketidai, 250) and Herodotus (V 22) believed that Macedonians were Dorian Greeks.

Herodotos claimed that the Macedonians (called at that time Makednoi) who moved to

Peloponnesos from Doris were later called Dorians.

[The English translation of the works by Herodotus we use is due to A. D. Godley and published

by Harvard University Press in the US, and Willian Heineman Ltd in Great Britain as part of the

Loeb Classical Library]

In Herodotus Book I, 56 (page 53) it is mentioned

"These races, Ionian and Dorian, were the foremost in ancient time, the first a Pelasgian and

the second an Hellenic people. The Pelasgian stock has never yet left its habitation, the Hellenic

has wandered often and afar. For in the days of king Deucalion it inhabited the land of Phthia,

then in the time of Dorus son of Hellen the country called Histiaean, under Ossa and Olympus;driven by the Cadmeans from this Histiaean country it settled about Pindus in the parts called

Macednian; thence again it migrated to Dryopia, and at last came from Dryopia to

Peloponnesos, where it took the name of Dorian".

Elsewhere, VIII-43 (referring to the naval battle in Salamis) Herodotos wrote

"The Peloponnesians that were with the fleet were, firstly, the Lacedaemonians, with sixteen

ships, and the Corinthians with the same number of ships as at Atemisium; the Sicyonians

furnished fifteen, the Epidaurians ten, the Troezinians five, the people of Hermione three; all

these, except the people of Hermione were of Dorian and Macedonian stock, and had last comefrom Erineus and Pindus and the Dryopian region. The people of Hermione are Dryopians,

driven by Heracles and the Malians from the country now called Doris.".

In another passage Herodotos described how the Macedonian state had been founded

(VIII,136-138).

There is one passage in Thucydides that descries the Molossians and other Epeirotian tribes

among the 'barbarians'. It was proved following the excavations in Epeiros in 1950-1960 that

the Molossians and other Epeirotian tribes were Greek, speaking Greek, and writing in Greek

well before Thucydides' time. Thus Thucydides was wrong for these tribes. He was also wrong if

he claimed, as some translators allege, that Macedonians had not been a greek tribe.

Thucydides had also accused the Eurytanes, another Greek tribe, of being barbarians for their

bad and improper use of the greek language and their aboriginal customs. The misinterpreted

passage of Thucydides is given below. In Thucydides IV,124,1 (Loeb edition by C.F. Smith) the

following passage appeared. "The total hellenic force was about three thousand; the cavalry


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that went with them, Macedonians and Chalcidians, were all told a little less than one

thousand, and there was besides a great multitude of barbarians".

[In Gk: "MAKEDONVN JYN XALKIDEYSIN OLIGVN ES XILIOYS, KAI ALLOS OMILOS TVN BARBARVN

POLYS"]

This passage is sometimes misinterpreted so that Macedonians and Chalcidians for that matter

appear to be considered barbarians by Thucydides. That this is not so can follow from an

analysis of this passage. First, no one ever considered the Chalcidians, whose number is added

to that of Macedonians, barbarians. Second, Thucydides distinguishes Macedonians and

Chalcidians on the one hand and barbarians on the other by using the adjective few (Gk:

OLIGVN) for the former and many for the latter (Gk:POLY). These two adjective clearly indicate

a contradistinction.

Euripides lived many years and died in Macedonia. Many of his tragedies were written and

played while he was in Macedonia. This would have been impossible, had the Macedonians

been 'barbarians' (non-Greek). This is because in one of these tragedies, 'Iphigeneia in Aulis',

the Greek superiority over the barbarians is emphasized. The following epigram in memory of

Euripides which is attributed by some authors to Thucydides may give us more light to the

actual beliefs of the people of that time (and possibly Thucydides)

"MNHMA MEN ELLAS APAS' EYRIPIDOU, OSTEA D' ISXEI GH MAKEDVN, H GAR DEJATO TERMA

BIOU".

In brief, Macedonia, the land that holds the bones of Euripides is considered part of Greece.

Polyvios (VII 11,4, V 103,9, XVIII, XXXiV 7,13 , VII 9,1 IX 37,7) clearly stated his belief that

Macedonia was greek, part of Greece, and considered Achaeans and Macedonians of the same

race. The same beliefs were shared by Strabo as well as Titus Livius, to name a few other

writers. It is also interesting to note that Polyvios describing the Balkan Peninsula he says that it

includes Greece, Illyria and Thrace. One can thus deduce that he includes Macedonia in Greece.

Had he not done so, he could have listed her separately.

Plutarchos(Flam. XI) describes Titus Contus Flamininus during the Isthmia celebrations claimed

that Macedonia prevented barbarian barbarian attacks against Southern Greece.

Arrhianos' work is full of references to "Macedonia and the other Greece".


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Q9) "Hellas" and "Macedonia". When was the first time that the word Hellas was used to

describe the country inhabited by people belonging to hellenic (greek) tribes?

Although the words Hellas and Hellen (and the other two English equivalents Greece and

Greek) have been used to describe the country and the people of modern day Greece, their use

in ancient times differed in various periods of time.

The usage of these words to describe the various hellenic tribes as a whole was unknown to the

people of the Homeric poems. In Iliad, the words Hellen (Gk: ELLHN) and Hellas (Gk: ELLAS)

defined a small greek tribe and the land inhabited by them in Thessaly. (Iliad B' 683)

"OI T' EIXON FUIHN HD' ELLADA KALLIGYNAIKA, MYRMIDONES DE KALEYNTO KAI ELLHNES KAI

AXAIOI".

At some earlier line (B' 530) there is a reference to the word "PANELLHNVN". This word since

the time of Aristarchos has been considered to be absent in the original poem and was addedat some later time.

Plutarchos (Lykourgos 6) wrote about the message brought from Delphoi to Sparta by

Lykourgos "DIOS (S)ELLANIOU KAI AUHNAS (S)ELLANIAS IERON IDRYSAMENON...". Because of

this reference, it is believed that the words "Hellas" and "Hellen" became more widely used

after the dispersion of the Dorians. It is also possible that they were sacred words possibly

related to the (S)elles priests of the Dodonian Zeus.

[the parenthesized (S) is to mean that the S say in the word SELLANIOY was later dropped from

use thus giving ELLANIOY.]

The words Hellas and Hellen became more widely used some time in the 8-7th century BC and

in the 5th century BC we find the first references of them to describe the lands and the Greek

people living south of river Peneios. In the 4th century BC and later they were also used to

describe the various hellenic (greek) tribes as a whole. The passage from Herodotos (I,56),

mentioned in a previous Question indicated another use of these words, that of distinguishing

Ionian Greeks from Dorian Greek.

Since the Macedonians were pretty much isolated from the Greeks of Southern Greece up to

the early 5th century BC, the words 'Hellas' and 'Hellen' were not used by them to describe

collectively the lands of various hellenic tribes, as this was also true for all the other greek tribes

until the 8-7th century BC.

Hence when the Macedonians initiated contacts with other Greek tribes they continued to use

the word 'Macedonian' to describe themselves instead of the collective 'Hellen(es)'. This is the

reason various authors (such as Isocrates, Philippos 154) use the term "Hellenes" and


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"Macedonians" on the one hand and 'barbarians" on the other to distinguish the greek tribes

(of Macedonians and other Hellenes) from the non-greek ones (barbarians).

The intellectual Athenians of the 4th century gave yet another definition for the word "Hellen"

(Isocrates, Panegyrikos 50), that of the person having an Athenian educational background, "...

the name 'Hellenes' suggests no longer the people but an intelligence, and that the title

'Hellenes' is applied rather to those who share our [note: the 'our' refers to the Athenians]

culture than to those who share a common blood".

It is also believed (N.G.L. Hammond,page 6) that the distinction made by authors of

Macedonians and Hellenes differentiates only the descendants of Hellen from the descendants

of Thyia, as in the genealogy provided by Hesiod. According to Hesiod, Deucalion had a son

Hellen and a daughter Thyia. The ancestors of Hellen were Dorus, Xouthus (whose son was Ion)

and Aeolus. Thyia had two sons Magnes and Macedon. According to Hellanikos on the other

hand, Macedon was a son of Aeolus.

Q10) Was the Macedonian tongue a greek dialect or not?

Yes it was a greek (doric) dialect.

We shall break this discussion into two parts. The first one consists of evidence found prior to

the excavations in Vergina by the late Professor Manolis Andronikos. The second one consists

of evidence found mainly since then. This evidence leads beyond any doubt to the conclusion

that the Macedonians spoke a greek dialect which was basically a doric one, it borrowed words

and was influenced by the aeolic dialect spoken by the Thessalian neighbours of Macedonians,

and also borrowed few words of Phrygic and Illyrian origin.

The Thessalian (aeolic) influence convinced some researchers that the genealogy of Makedon

given by Hellanikos (see Question 3) was more accurate than that given by Hesiodos.

In the volume "Macedonia: 4000 years of Greek history and civilization" Professor M.

Sakellariou examined the words known to be unique in the macedonian dialect of greek and

related their root to the roots of words of other Greek dialects. Summarizing, many of the

words that were previously considered of non-Greek origin were also in (rare) use in other parts

of Greece.

There have been made various claims that the Macedonians up to some time in the 4th century

BC used to speak a non-Greek language and at that time (around 340BC) were 'hellenized' by

the Athenians and thus learned how to speak the attic dialect. These claims can be easily

proved to be totally false even if one uses only pre-Vergina evidence.

Below we present various views on the topic.


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-Pre-Vergina evidence.

Fr. Sturz (in "De Dialecto Macedonica et Alexandrina", 1808) concluded that the Macedonian

tongue was a greek doric dialect. August Flick, O. Hoffmann, Otto Abel, and Karl Belloch, as well

as Georg Busolt, Fritz Geyer, Ulrich Wilcken, Helmuth Berve, Gustave Glotz, P. Roussel, P

Pouquet, A Jarde, R Cohen, J. Bury, St. Casson, W. Heurtley, D. Hogarth, J. de Waele, just to

name a few (non-Greek) historians and archaeologists, shared the same views.

On the other hand, there were some historians and writers such as M. Vasmer (Revue du

ministere d' instruction publique de Russie, 1908), P Kretschmer and Bulgarians G. Kazarow and

Vlad. Georgiev that rejected this thesis. Georgiev attempted to show that Macedonians were

member of a Thracoillyrian nation thus speaking illyrian, a non-greek language. That this was

not the case was shown in Question 6. G Weigand also shared the opinions of these authors. G.

Hatzidakes rejected these theses in various texts and among them in "Zur Abstammung der

alten Makedonier (eine ethnologische Studie)". For more details we refer to Daskalakis (page104).

Coins found in Macedonia have inscriptions in greek and are dated from the early 5th BC

century. Such found coins are the following ones.

1. An octadrachm of Alexander I (circa 478BC).2. Coins from the reign of Archelaos (413-399BC) and Amyntas III (393-370BC).3. the ring of Sindos with the word Gk:'DVRON' (Gift) dated around 480BC.

These coins are dated well before 340BC, the time of the alleged "hellenization" of

Macedonians.

Macedonians had their own month names. If one accepts the thesis that Macedonian were

'hellenized' by the Athenians some time around 340BC hen one can safely assume that these

names must be identical to those used by the Athenians. If not, they would show the linguistic

roots of the Macedonians prior to their alleged who claimed that Dorians and Macedonians

belonged to the same tribe (Herodotos claimed that the Macedonians who descended to

southern Greece after crossing Doris became known as Dorians) and thus Macedonians were a

Greek tribe, the month names of Macedonians were Greek and were different from the ones

used by the Athenians. The list of these names used by the Macedonians and the list of monthnames of the Lacedaemonians (who were Dorians) have a common intersection, the names

Artemisios and Apellaios.

Persians when first occupied Macedonia during their conquests in Europe around 510-480BC

described the people living in Macedonia as "The Greeks wearing a shield-like hat" and who


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were non other than the Macedonians themselves. This incident occurred long before the

alleged "hellenization" of Macedonians.

It is believed that the worship of the 12 Olympian Gods had started in Macedonia (as related to

their place of "residence". Mountain Olympos is located in Pieria and both these names are

Greek. It is claimed the magnificent view of Mt. Olympos when viewed from Macedonia, while

its view from the south (Thessaly) is hindered by other mountains, inspired the Macedonians

and from the the other Greeks to consider this mountain the residence of their Gods.

Athenian comedies used to make fun of the idioms and the dialects of other Greeks like those

of Spartans, Boeoteans and of course Macedonians. Some time in the 5th century BC a comedy

entitled "Pausanias or Macedonians?" written by the Athenian Strattis was played in Athens. In

various parts of this comedy a Macedonian explains how various words of the attic dialect are

called in the Macedonian dialect.

It can be inferred from these references that Macedonians spoke a Doric greek dialect. In a

work of the ancient writer Athenaios, one can find samples of the work of Strattis. In an article

written by A. Koerte quoting Athenaios VII,323b we can find in that comedy of Strattis the

following conversation:

"STRATTIS GOYN EN MAKEDOSIN EROMENOU TINOS ATTIKOY VS AGNOOYNTOS TO ONOMA

KAI LEGONTOS: H SFYRAINA D' ESTI TIS;" FHSIN O ETEROS " KESTRAN MEN YMMES VTTIKOI

KIKLHSKETE".

In English (as it appeared in the article by M. Sakellariou) an Athenian asks "sledfish, what do

you mean?" and a Macedonian replies "wha ye Attics ca' a hammer-fush, ma freen" i.e. in my

own words, which i hope do not change the meaning of this phrase "what you Attics call a

hammer-fush, (we call a) freen".

One can appreciate the value of the Macedonian's reply for the object under discussion if he

does not forget that as is clear from many passages in Aristophanes the attic comedians made

their non-Greeks speak broken Greek with an a mixture of barbarian words (some of them

imaginary) while Lacedaemonians, Boeotians, Macedonians and other Greeks spoke their own

dialects. The Macedonian's reply is in good Greek with dialect (ymmes, sfyraina) and archaizing

elements (kiklhskete). Both YMMES and SFYRAINA are not attic words but they are Greek.Therefore claims that Athenians "hellenized" Macedonians seem to be baseless. It is also noted

that these words were used by the Macedonians some time in the 5th century BC that is at

least 50 years before their alleged hellenization.

An ambassador from Macedonia speaking to the Aetolians in 200BC observed that the

Macedonians, the Aetolians and the Arkanians all spoke the same language.


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The expressions "aneboa makedonisti", "makedonisti th fvnh" have been taken by opponents

of the thesis that the Macedonians were Greeks as indicating that their language differed from

Greek. One can claim that these formulation indicate a Greek dialect (cf [In Greek] "aiolizein th

fvnh", "attikizei", "attikisti", "boivtiazein","dvrizein" etc).

To those who are more interested in the characteristics of the dialect of Greek spoken by the

Macedonians the article by M. Sakellariou in "Macedonia: 4000 years of Greek history and

civilization" is available on request. In general few words of non-greek origin were used in the

Macedonian dialect of greek an most of these words were proper names. Some of them were

names of Egyptian deities worshipped in Macedonia after the 3rd century BC. Even in the times

of Herodotos (II 153, III 27, IV 155, VI 27) barbarian (non-greek) names were in use by Greeks.

Strabo VII 7,1 (C321) also mentioned various names of non-greek origin such as KEKROPS

(Greek: KEKROC) KODROS, AIKLOS (Gk: A.I.KLOS), KOTHOS (Gk: KOUOS), DRYMAS (Gk: DRYMAS)

KRINAKOS (Gk: KRINAKOS).

It should also be mentioned that many place-names in ancient Macedonia (and modern-day

Macedonia of Greece) are of Greek origin and of use in other areas of Greece as well. Such

names are: Argos (Gk: ARGOS), also found in Thessaly and Peloponnesos. Arnissa(Gk: ARNISSA)

reminds of Arnen (Gk: ARNHN) of Thessaly and Boeotia. Arethoussa (Gk: AREUOYSSA) also

found in Ithaca, Boeotia, Syracuses. Prasias a lake and a city name is also found in Athens as

PRASIAI, and many other ones (such as Oedomenae, Petra, Fila, Gortynia, Pynda etc).

Many other words of the Macedonian dialect are of ancient doric origin such as [the

macedonian-doric and attic equivalent names are shown in Greek only]: santoria = svthria,

zereuron = bereuron, barauron xarvn = xairvn arkon = argos dvraj = uvraj danon = uanon ,

uanatos kadaron = kauaron sarisa = dory (from the verb sairv, sarvnv) etc. Some other words of

the macedonian dialect of greek can be traced back in the Homeric poems: amalos = apalos

indea = meshmbrian ( indion hmar) leykanih = laimos lisson = omalon , leion (lygos = rabdos).

Fore more details see the work of Geyer Fr., where he showed that the names of macedonian

months and festivities although they could not be found anywhere in classic Greece were

archaic Greek ones and showed the doric origin of the Macedonians.

The fact that Macedonians participated in various celebrations like the Amphictyonies and the

Phocica also show the belief of themselves and the other Greeks in their origin. It is for these

reasons that Professor F. Papazoglou in "Historija Hellenizma", Belgrade, 1967 claimed that

Macedonians were Greeks, a claim also supported by Heinz Kreissing in "Povijest Hellenizma",

Zagreb, 1988.

Prof. Arnold Toynbee in "The Greeks and their Heritages", Oxford University Press, 1981 also

claimed that ancient Macedonians were Greeks.


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-Post-Vergina evidence.

The excavations in Vergina have brought to light many tombs that buried ancient Macedonians.

There are inscription on these tombs with the names of the deceased person and those of

his/her progenitors. All names found so far have been Greek. Given that some of these tombs

are dated from the 350BC era, one can conclude that by some time in late 5th century

Macedonians have been naming their children with Greek names. And since contacts with the

Athenians were rare to non-existent at that time one can safely conclude that claims that

Macedonians were not Greeks and were only 'hellenized' in the 4th century BC are false.

Published information on the excavations in Vergina is mostly in the form of papers submitted

to various conferences.

Q11) "ANEBOA MAKEDONISTI" ?

Those who claim that the Macedonians were not a Greek tribe considered this expression asevidence that the language of the Macedonians was a non-greek one. Previous questions

(Question 10) discussed the refutation of this thesis in more detail. A discussion of this phrase

only will be dealt here. It is based on that of the book by Daskalakis (see references).

The expression "ANEBOA MAKEDONISTI" was first found in the works of Plutarchos

(ALEXANDORS LI, 4) and that of the Latin Kurtius Rufus. The phrase is found in the following

passage [ In Greek: ]

"TVN DE SVMATOFYLAKVN ENOS, ARISTOFANOYS, FUASANTOS YFELESUAI, KAI TVN ALLVN

PERIEXONTVN KAI DEOMENVN, ANAPHDHSAS (cf Alexandros) ANEBOA MAKEDONISTI KALVNTOYS YPASPISTAS (TOYTO D' HN SYMBOLO UORYBOU MEGALOU), KAI TON SALPIGKTHN

EKELEYSE SAHMAINEIN, KAI PYJ EPAISEN, VS DIATRIBONTA KAI MH BOYLOMENON..."

On the other hand Arrhianos, whose sources included lost works of Alexander's co-fighters and

eye witnesses, describing this episode that resulted in the death of Kleitos used the following

phrase: " ALEJANDROS DE EBOA ANAKALVN TOYS YPASPISTAS". No reference to MAKEDONISTI

appeared in Arrhianos' version of the episode. This may lead to the conclusion that the word

"MAKEDONISTI" was somehow added at some later time, or the interpretation that has been

given to it by some translators was not the one intended by Plutarchos. It is also noted that

references to the expression "Macedonia and the other Greece" are numerous in his work.

In Plutarchos' rendition of the episode the distinction between ANEBOA (called, shouted,

roared) and KALVN (calling) is evident. Given the explanatory statement "TOYTO D' HN

SYMBOLO UORYBOY MEGALOY" ('this was a sign of great noise') it can be concluded that

ANEBOA referred to some kind of password used by ALEXANDER the Great to call his


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YPASPISTAS (sort of bodyguards) in cases of emergencies only, that is why its use caused great

disturbance.

The absence of MAKEDONISTI in Arrhianos' rendition seems to agree with this interpretation.

Let alone the fact that following this incident Alexander talked to his YPASPISTAS in attic greek.

The expression "aneboa makedonisti", if this indeed appeared in the original text, is no more

different from other similar expression "aiolizein th fvnh", "attikizei", "attikisti",

"boivtiazein","dvrizein" which were used to denote various dialects of ancient greek.

A Latin writer Kurtius (other than the aforementioned Kurtius Rufus) gave a description of this

episode similar to that of Arrhianos. No reference to MAKEDONISTI was made by him and he

only wrote "that Alexander ordered via a trumpet call his soldiers to gather outside the royal

tent".

There is another passage in the work of Kurtius Rufus describing the trial of Filotas which is

being used by proponents of the thesis that the Macedonians spoke a non-greek language.

Allegedly Filotas during his trial used the attic dialect forcing Alexander to accuse him of not

using his (Filotas's) mother tongue (macedonian, supposedly a non-greek language).

Subsequently, Alexander also accused Filotas of being unwilling to learn how to speak his

mother tongue! This passage contains several contradictions notwithstanding the one that

Filotas was not capable of speaking his mother tongue. Alexander on the other hand, allegedly

accuses Filotas of detesting the macedonian dialect but according to Filotas' reply this

accusation is spelled by Alexander in the attic rather than the macedonian dialect! This fact

alone, had this episode really happened, could have been used against Alexander himself as a

counter argument and accusation. It is this reference to Alexander that made H. Bardon,

publisher of Rufus's works to wonder how it was possible for Alexander to fall in such a

contradiction and to accuse others of something that he himself was fighting for.

Neither Arrhianos, who lived closer to the era this episode occurred, nor Plutarchos present this

incident mentioned in the work of Kurtius Rufus. H. Bardon, French publisher of Rufus's works

(pub. Belles Lettres vol 1 page 201 note 1) commenting on the alleged speech of Filotas said

that Kurtius Rufus was accustomed to rhetoric artifices and as a result historic truth suffered in

that part of his work. All in all it can be safely concluded that this passage was more of a

product of the rhetoric talents of Rufus thus attributing to Filotas a speech Filotas never gaverather than presenting the actual events. Writers who lived well before Rufus and close to the

time of the incident were not aware of such a speech by Filotas.


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Q12) There is a reference in a work by Pausanias that may give the impression that

Macedonians, around 214-213BC, were speaking a non-Greek language.

Advocates of the thesis that the Macedonian spoke a non-greek language claim that this

language was spoken by them up to some time in mid 4th century BC. At that time

Macedonians within few years were fully hellenized and since then they have been speaking

Greek.

Long but relevant Parenthesis. Skip it if not interested: Some of these advocates accept a

Skopjan point of view that all Macedonians perished and thus vanished when Slavs first

appeared in the Balkan peninsula in the 7th century AD. All of a sudden these new Slavs

became heir-apparents of the Macedonians, were granted presumably by Marshall Tito the

exclusive right to be called 'Macedonians' and named the Bulgarian idiom also consisting of

Greek, Turkish, and Albanian words formed at least 1000 years after their descent to the

Balkans "the Macedonian language".

Some of them, possibly all, claim that this Slavic origin language was the language spoken by

the Macedonians before the the Cyrillic alphabet was introduced to these and other Slavs along

with many greek words by two Macedonian (Greek) brothers, Kontantinos (later called Cyril)

and Methodios from Thessaloniki. It is quite interesting to know how these Macedonian

brothers escaped the fate of other fellow Macedonians and didn't perish during the descent of

Slavs in the Balkan peninsula, as the advocates of Skopjan claimed that it had happened.

According to Pausanias (Messenians IV 29, 1) the residents of Messene a night around 214-

213BC first thought that the Lacedaemonians had attacked them. Later, by the arms and thevoices, realized that those who attacked them were soldiers led by king Demetrios. Since at that

time a Demetrios was King of Macedonia, it was assumed that the attackers were Macedonians.

Some authors claimed that the 'voices' reference was to mean that the Macedonians

(attackers) were speaking a non-greek language at that time, an argument not accepted for the

Macedonians of that time by almost everyone.

Later on, it was realized that the Demetrios in question was not the king of Macedonia, son of

Philippos E', but Demetrios the Pharian, an Illyrian, who was later killed during this campaign

against Messene.

Q13) Did Demosthenes believe the Macedonians were barbarians?

No. Proponents of the thesis that Macedonians spoke a non-greek language accept (usually...)

that the Macedonian kings were Greeks but were ruling non-Greek people. Given the evidence

that has been found in the past years from archaeological excavations they have started


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claiming that the kings and the upper-class had been Greek-speakers but the lower class was

not.

Now to explain the "NO". One may claim that it should have been a "YES" and they would point

to the "To Philippos" speech of the orator where he claimed that from these barbarian

Macedonians one could not even buy slaves. I will let Professor A. Holm in his work "The history

of Greece from its commencement to the close of the independence of the Greek nation",

translated from German, London New York, Macmillan, 1894-1898, Volume III, page 206 to

explain this passage from the speech of Demosthenes:

"That the Greeks did not consider the Macedonians as barbarians is proved involuntarily by

Demosthenes (To Philippos 3, 31) where he states that "OYD ANDRAPODON SPOYDAION HN

PROTEROY" from Macedonia, which stripped of its rhetoric means the Macedonians did not

provide the Greeks with slaves, the meaning of which of course was that the Macedonians were

not considered barbarians, like the Thracians, Phrygians..."

Given this, the discussion below seems to be redundant.

Demosthenes, an Athenian orator and politician in various speeches of his and most notably in

Olynthiakos G' and later, when it was very clear to him that the power of Athens was fading

away and Macedonia was the new power in the hellenic world, accused Philippos II of many

things including that of being barbarian. This is not surprising for Demosthenes who spent his

whole life advocating the superiority of Athens over the other hellenic states, even if that

required that some Greek city-states were to be destroyed or to suffer for Athens to remain the

leader of Greece [See, For the Megalopolitans,5].

In his Third Olynthiakos, 16, Demosthenes wrote

"Is he (Philippos) not our enemy? Are not our possessions in his hands? Is he not a barbarian? Is

he not anything that you choose to call him? In God's name, when we have let everything go,

when we have all but put everything into his hands, shall we then inquire at large who is

responsible for it all?"

There are no explicit accusations of Macedonians as a whole of being so (barbarians). Given

that such an assertion against Philippos is shared by no one and given so many references in

antiquity to his descent [Herodotos, Thucydides, Isocrates, Hesiodos, Hellanikos] in various

texts any other discussion on this question seems pointless. In one translation of this speech by

John Edwin Santys in "The first Philippic and the Olynthiacs of Demosthenes", Macmillan and

Co, the translator commented on this passage Argos [Herodotos VIII 137, IX 45, Thucydides II

99,2, V 80,2] and one of Philip's ancestors, Alexander A', had as a Greek been allowed to

compete at the Olympic games [Herodotos V 22]. Demosthenes, however, in his hatred of


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Philip, never acknowledges his Greek descent. ... of breath as he gasps out this final and

comprehensive phrase of vituperation. In such a spasmodic utterance no one need be surprised

either at the presence of hiatus or at the concurrence of several short syllables". Those who

believe that this phrase of Demosthenes is not a term of abuse but truth are those who believe

that President-elect Clinton is indeed 'Bozo' as Presint Bush claimed, which I doubt that evenPresident Bush believes.

There is also another reason that this accusation against Philippos on behalf of Demosthenes

was more of a figure of speech than anything else.

Demosthenes's mother (or his maternal grandmother) was a Skythian, a non-Greek and thus a

non-Athenian. Had his accusation been taken seriously we could have been accused and for a

good reason of being a barbarian himself.

In fact Aeschines (On the Embassy, 78) expressed this opinion by saying ".... KAI TAYTA, V

DHMOSUENES, EK TVN NOMADVN SKYUVN TO PROS MHTROS VN GENOS", that is, "you,

Demosthenes, a descendant through your mother of the nomad Skythians" as well as (Against

Ctesiphon, 172) "TA D' APO THS MHTROS [DHMOSUENHS] SKYUHS, BARBAROS, ELLHNIZVN TH

FVNH" that is, "and by his mother's side [Demosthenes is] a Scythian, a Greek speaking

Barbarian", and earlier in that passage Aeschines accused Demothenes of being a slanderer "EJ'

HS YMIN O PERIERGOS KAI SYKOFANTHS [DEMOSTHENES] GEGENHTAI". [Some authors believe

that Kleovouli, mother of Demosthenes, was daughter of Gylon who settled in Crimaea and

married a Scythian woman.]

Let alone the fact that Demosthenes, an 'honorable' Athenian citizen, was bribed later by thePersians (barbarians) to write speeches against Philippos and at the same time was also

accusing Philippos of bribing Athenians and various Athenians of being bribed by Philippos.

Demosthenes would also look very silly since another Athenian, Isocrates, in, To Philippos,108

wrote considered Philippos an Hellen and urged him to unite all Hellenes and lead them in a

war against the Barbarians.

In one of his speeches, On the Embassy 305, Demosthenes in his effort to accuse orator

Aeschines of inconsistent and possibly traitorous behavior accused Aeschines of calling

Philippos 'barbarian' and 'devil'. In his Third Philippic, 31, Demosthenes accused Philippos of

being "he is a pestilent Macedonian, from whose country it used not to be possible to buy even

a slave of any value" [There were no slaves in the Macedonian state as opposed to other greek

city-states]. On the other hand in the Third Olynthiac Demosthenes commended the Athenians

on extracting 10,000 talents from Macedonia and bringing them into the Acropolis many years

earlier, in the fifth century BC.


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Accusations by Aeschines on the past and present behavior of Demosthenes such as of inflicting

wounds on himself and bringing suit for malicious assault, (in Against Ctesiphon, 212), of

becoming a teacher in order to extract large amounts of money from his pupils (in Against

Timarchus, 171), of taking money from his clients for writing speeches to be delivered in court

and then revealing the contents of these speeches to their opponents (in On the Embassy, 165),of belittling young Alexander by claiming that he would prove incompetent and would never

stir out of Macedonia (Against Ctesiphon 160), of later seeking favor from Alexander

(same,162), of his insincerity and cowardice (against Ctesiphon 150-152), are omitted.

The following remark made by an ancient writer commenting on Demosthenes's accusation of

Philippos (Olynthiakos G' 16) being a barbarian highlights the beliefs of all other Greeks as well

as the real beliefs of Demosthenes:

"YBRISAI TOYTON (meaning FILIPPON DEMOSUENHS) BOYLOMENOS KALEIN BARBARON, EPEI

TO ALHUES SKOPHSEI, EYRHSEI AYTON ELLHNAN ARGEION KAI APO HRAKLEOYS TO GENOSKATAGOMENON, VS PANTES OI ISTORIKOI MARTYROYSIN...".

In short the accusation on behalf of Demosthenes was just a slander since every historian at

that time knew that Philippos was Greek in descent.

Q14) Is there any reference by Demosthenes to an incident that can lead us to conclude that

he and his fellow Athenians believed that Macedonians indeed spoke a greek dialect?

Yes. Demosthenes in a speech of his (in Greek: PERI THS PARAPRESBEIAS[On the Embassy?]

197,229) described an incident in which Frynonas, an Athenian, while traveling to Olympia had

his luggage taken by Macedonian soldiers. Frynonas acted later as an Athenian ambassador to

Philippos II. Philippos II ordered his soldiers to return the taken property to Frynonans and

apologized for his soldiers not knowing that that time was a period of religious festivities. Had

the Macedonian soldiers not spoken a greek dialect Philippos II would have used that as an

excuse, Demosthenes would have been very keen to pointing this out in his speech, and taken

up with great delight, as we may guess, the opportunity to accuse not only Philippos but also

his soldiers of barbarian behavior. Nevertheless, he didn't do that because he knew that the

Macedonians spoke a greek dialect.

No lack of understanding between the Macedonians and the Athenians at that time (at the timethat the alleged "hellenization" of Macedonians was about to begin) has been reported in any

ancient text.

Demosthenes, as an ambassador of Athens visited Macedonia twice. This happened before his

now famous (or infamous) speeches against Philippos. During his two visits and afterwards


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never complained of Macedonians being "barbarians", or speaking a non-greek language. On

the contrary we was dazzled by the riches of the palace of Philippos in Pella.

Q15) Is it possible [ignoring historic evidence that shows that this was not the case] that

Macedonians had spoken a non-greek language before 340BC and within a 10-20 year period

every Macedonian was fluent in the attic dialect?

The answer is no, unless one sites as an example the races in Star Trek: The Next Generation

(Trademark by Paramount Pictures) who are all fluent in English no matter how alien or young

or French for that matter are :-)

Arrhianos presented many instances of Alexander the Great talking to his fellow Macedonian

soldiers in greek(attic) and not say, in their supposedly non-greek mother tongue. Wouldn't his

soldiers feel more comfortable in their mother tongue (a supposedly non greek one)?

Q16) Who may have 'hellenized' ancient Macedonians, if we we assume, despite proof for thecontrary, that they were not a greek tribe ?

This is a question that noone could give an answer. Assuming that ancient Macedonians were

not speaking Greek the large number of doric and thus non-attic words found in their spoken

language, let alone place-names, month-names, attributes to Gods and Godesses, festival

names etc seem to zero the probability that Athenians were the ones who hellenized them. The

large number of archaic greek words not used by other Greeks of that time preclude any other

greek city-state or kingdom of the classic times to be responsible for that alleged 'hellenization'.

Remembering the not so friendly relations between the Macedonians and the Athenians, the

vastness of the Macedonian kingdom as opposed to that of the city state of Athens, and its

population -Macedonians were able to form sizeable armies, by Greek standards- it is highly

unlikely that any other Greek state or Athens could have undertaken such an enormous task

and had it completed in a 10-20 year period.

On the other hand, Alexander A' when he initiated his otherwise brief contacts with the Greeks

in the South he was able to talk to them in Greek fluently. If Macedonians were to be hellenised

in the 4th century BC there would have been no way for Alexander A' to speak greek. If he and

his family were the only Greek speakers in Macedonia it would have been highly unlikely that

he and his family had retained the ability to speak Greek fluently.

One of the tragedies Euripides first presented in Macedonia was Iphigeneia in Aulis and Ekavi.

In Iphigeneia (1400) and Ekavi (1199) "OYPOT' AN FILON / TO BARBARON GENOIT' AN ELLHSIN

GENOS / OYD AN DYNAITO", the greek superiority over the Barbarians was highlighted. It would

have been be too dangerous for him to express such opinions to a non-greek audience (if


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Macedonians were not Greek and spoke a non-Greek language). Let alone the fact that the

language of his tragedies was Greek.

Q17) Isocrates used the phrases "ALOFYLON TO GENOS", "OYX OMOFYLOY GENOYS". Do they

mean "of other tribe" or "of other race"?

We discussed in previous paragraphs the various interpretations of the word Hellen (Greek) in

various times in antiquity. The word Hellen used to describe in homeric times the people living

in some place (the Myrmidones in Thessaly) and later (possibly) those living in Epeiros if one

believes that the Selloi of Epeiros, also called Graecoi, were later became known as Hellenes.

Only in the 8-7th century BC was the word Hellen used to describe as a whole various Greek

(hellenic) tribes. Since at that time Macedonians were in constant wars with the Illyrians and

other non-greek tribes and had little contacts with the other Greek tribes in the South the term

Hellenes with its new meaning was not familiar to them.

Thus distinction between Hellenes and Macedonians used by writers at that time (who

nevertheless had no doubt of the Greekness of the Macedonians) shouldn't be a source of false

claims. The following excerpt of Isocrates' speech highlights this.

(Isocrates. Philip. 154):

" HN GAR TAYTA PRATTHS, APANTES SOI XARIN EJOYSI, OI MEN ELLHNES YPER VN AN EY

PASXVSI, MAKEDONES D' HN BASILIKVS ALLA MH TYRANNIKVS AYTVN EPISTATHS, TO DE TVN

ALLVN GENOS, HN DIA SE BARBARIKHS DESPOTEIAS APALLAGENTES ELLHNIKHS EPIMELEIAS

TYXVSIN"

Although Isocrates distinguished Hellenes from Macedonians by including in the first term the

at that time accepted interpretation of "the greek tribes living south of river Peneios", he

nevertheless believed that the the people who got rid of the "BARBARIKHS DESPOTEIAS"

(barbarian rule) with the assistance of Macedonians are now ruled and taken care of

("ELLHNIKHS EPIMELEIAS TYXVSIN") by people (Macedonians) belonging to Greek tribes.

Isocrates is well known for suggesting that Philippos II (In his speech: To Philippos) lead a

panhellenic hegemony, consisting only of Greeks, that will unify all Hellenic tribes and lead

them in a war against the barbarians [To Philippos, 115,80, 127-128,8,16]. A reference by him

to Macedonians as "OYX OMOFYLOY GENOYS"(TO Philippos,108) there, has been interpreted by

some to mean "of other race" rather than "of other tribe" thus earning him many supporters

among the ones who claim that Macedonians were not Greek. It seems quite weird that

Isocrates would like the leader of a "barbarian tribe" to unite all Hellenes, including his own

"barbarians".


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The answer to this misinterpretation of the "OYX OMOFYLON GENOS" will become apparent

shortly.

In the same text (To Philippos,32) Isocrates wrote "UHBAIOI DE TON ARXHGON TOY GENOYS

YMVN TIMVSI" that is that Isocrates was aware of the Macedonian-Doric connection and/or the

legend that the Macedonian kings were considered descendants of Heracles. The 'founder of

your tribe' refers to Heracles. If 'GENOYS'(of TRIBE) were to mean RACE (the hellenic one in

particular) Isocrates would have used HMVN (that is, 'founder of our tribe') instead of YMVN

(that is, 'founder of your tribe').

This meaning of the word GENOS (tribe rather than race) can also be found in Herodotos (I, 56,

mentioned in Question 8) where the Lacedaemonians are of "DVRIKOU GENOUS' (Doric,

presumably, tribe) while the Athenians are of "IVNIKOY" (Ionian, presumably, tribe). Had

GENOS meant race one must conclude that either Iones (say, Athenians) or Dorians (say

Spartans) were not Greek. It is worth mentioning that in that same passage Herodotos used theword 'EUNOS' (nowadays it means 'people'...) for the ancient Pelasgian and Hellenic people

('EUNH'). Herodotos included the Ionians in the Pelasgian and Dorians in the Hellenic people,

although both were hellenic (greek) tribes. So much for confusing terms...

In VIII,144, Herodotos distinguished Hellenic tribes from the Barbarians on the basis of 'blood'

and 'speech' (OMAIMON and OMOGLVSSON) rather than of race or tribe which didn't have very

specific meanings at that time.

The following references in addition to the previous ones, show that the word "FYLON",

"GENOS" had at that time the meaning of the english word TRIBE rather than that of RACE, thus"ALOFYLON GENOS" and "OYX OMOFYLON GENOS" means "of other (not of the same) tribe", as

this was true for the Athenians (ionic tribe) and Macedonians (doric one). The interpretation "of

other (not of the same) race" for "ALOFYLOY GENOS" and "OYX OMOFYLON" is thus incorrect.

1. Thucydides (I, 141) : Pericles talking about the Peloponnesians said "PANTES TEISOCHFIOI ONTES KAI OYX OMOFYLOI TO EF' EAYTON EKASTOS SPEYDH" that is, he

considered Peloponnesians not "OMOFYLOI" to the Athenians. Since everyone

considered both Peloponnesians and Athenians to be Greek, 'OMOFYLOI' had thus the

meaning of the 'same tribe' rather than of 'same race'.

2. Dicaiarchos : "FYLH DE KAI FYLETAI PROTERON VNOMASUHSAN EK THS EIS TAS POLEISKAI TA KALOYMENA EUNH SYNODOY GENOMENHS; EKASTON GAR TVN SYNELUONTVN

FYLON ELEGETO EINAI". Same meaning as before.

3. Herodotos (VIII, 144) distinguishes Hellenic tribes from Barbarians depending on the"OMAIMON" (same blood) and "OMOGLVSSON" (same tongue) but not of the

"OMOFYLON" (same tribe).


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4. Euripides (Her. Main. 1200) agreed with Herodotos.5. Eustathios (93,3) assigned the meaning of tribe to 'FYLON'.

It was known to Isocrates (as attested in the same speech) the tradition relating Macedonians

and Dorians and the "ALOFYLOY" was pointing out this difference between the Athenians and

Macedonians. Later in his speech Isocrates asked Philippos to unite the Hellenes and drive them

against the barbarians. He also suggested that Philippos should lead only Greeks against the

barbarians. Had Macedonians been considered barbarians the suggestions would have been at

least absurd and offending rather than encouraging and flattering, as they were intended to be.

In another part of its speech/letter Isocrates mentions that Philippos rules people

(Macedonians) of not his own tribe-race. Some claim that this is a proof of the non-Greekness

of Macedonians in the sense that considering Philippos to be Greek (according to the legend of

his family's descent) the tribe-race is to mean that the people he ruled were not Greeks. The

accurate meaning of this phrase can only be derived by reading the whole passage. Isocratessuggests to Philippos that the kind of rule (monarchy) that was so successful in Macedonia is

not guaranteed to be successful in the city-states of Southern Greece. Thus, he should choose

another form of government when he (Philippos) becomes hegemon of all Greece. In order to

support this he cites the example of his ancestors who unable to rule Argos, since at that time

monarchies were detested in Southern Greece and the trend was the establishment of city-

states, were only successful in ruling another tribe, that of Macedonians.

Medieval & Modern Macedonia

Q18) Skopjans accuse us Macedonians in Greece of changing the names of our cities into

Greek ones some time in the 20th century instead of using the slavic names assigned to these

cities since "ancient" (sic) names. They claim that Edessa for example should not be called so

but VODEN instead, and Thessaloniki should be called SOLUN.

Cities in Macedonia, the ancient kingdom and the province of Greece, still have the names they

had in antiquity, at least for the cities that existed at that time. The names of some of these

cities may not be even of Greek origin, thus showing that Skopjan claims are not only false but

at least silly or absurd.

The Skopjans claim that the Macedonian city of Edessa in the Pella prefecture of Macedonia,

Greece, should not be called so but Voden instead. They also claim that we Macedonias


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changed the name of the city from the slavic one "VODEN" into the "greek" one EDESSA. The

city of EDESSA has been called so since prehistoric times. It is amusing to point out that many

believe the name Edessa is not of Greek, but possibly of phrygic origin denoting a place rich of

waters. Edessa has always been famous of her waterfalls. Others may claim that the suffix "-

dessa" may indicate 'water' in some prehistoric form of the greek word (GK:YDVR) for water.This connection of the name 'EDESSA' with 'water' had confused many historians until 1976.

They used to believe that Edessa was ancient Aegae, the royal city of the Macedonian Kings.

They thought that the word 'Aegae' was derived not from the word 'aega' (she-goat) as this is

related with the myth of the creation of the Macedonian state by Karanos, but from the doric

prefix Aeg- denoting 'water' (cf Edessa). In Doric, 'aegae' means '(water) waves' (The 'Aegean

Sea' is an obvious example). Given that both names Edessa and Aegae have to do with 'waters'

archaelogists thought that Edessa=Aegae.

This argument was put in rest by Nicholas L. G. Hammond in 1968 when he suggested that

Vergina and not Edessa was the ancient Aegae, a correct assertion as it was proved in 1976 by

the excavations of M. Andronikos in Vergina. Though Vergina is not on the sea shore of

Thermaikos Bay it is believed that in the BC centuries the present lands separating Vergina from

the sea were wetlands.

It is noted that the slavic word VODEN also denotes 'water'. It is also worth mentioning that the

city of Skopje whose name is probably derives from the greek one 'Skopia', was invariably called

'Uskub', 'Skupoi', 'Skup', 'Skopje', and as of few years ago 'Skoplje'.

Another Example is the city of Kastoria in Western Macedonia, Greece. Skopjans prefer to call it

Kostur and suggest that Greeks should call it so. The name of the city 'Kastoria' comes from the

mythical hero Kastor (Castor) brother of Polydeukes, son of Leda and Zeus.

Regarding Thessaloniki (called Salonica or Saloniki also in English) if one opens an ancient map

he will realize that the name of the city has been Thessaloniki and not Solun (as Skopjan suggest

that we should call the city) since ancient times.

Q19) Skopjans claim that when Slavs descended to the Balkan peninsula, in the 7th century

AD, Macedonians vanished and there was a kind of 'slavicization' of Macedonia which 'gave

birth' to the "Slavic-Macedononians" as Skopjans claim they are (at least some of them), the

supposedly deserved ancestors of ancient Macedonians. Are such claims true say up to 15th

century AD?

The distinction between Macedonians, Thessalians, Athenians, Spartans and Lacaedemonians in

antiquity which indicated among other things greek tribes of distinct customs, spoken dialects

ceased to exist with the passage of time. As of the hellenistic period almost all Greeks were

using the attic dialect for their communication while all the other dialects (of greek) were


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dropped from regular use. The rise of Christianity erased distinctions based in religious matters

and the place of residence was then used distinguish say Thessalians from Macedonians and

Athenians. Their common greek dialect (the attic one) though evolved differently in various

regions thus giving the various dialects of modern greek.

To say that Macedonians vanished some time in the 7AD century is to claim that the Greeks

(many of them ancestors of doric people called Macedonians, other possibly ancestor of other

aeolic, doric or ionic people, others of mixed parentage) residing in Macedonia were all killed at

that time, an absurdity.

Around 688, emperor Justinian B', after the defeat of the Bulgars and Slavs in lower Moissia

transferred all the Slavs in the northern european part of his empire (that is of Macedonia and

Thrace of nowadays Greece and territories covering the Rep. of Skopje, Albania and parts of

Bulgaria) to Asia Minor. These were estimated to be 80,000 but probably were more than that

since two years later the emperor preparing for a war against the Arabs conscripted 30,000men from this population to his army. These Slavs subsequently switched sides and supported

the Arabs. The emperor for retribution killed all the remaining Slavs in Asia Minor.

About one hundred years later, in 773AD, the Bulgarian population in the Balkans was reduced

after repeated defeats in battles with the Byzantine emperors. When the Bulgars decided to

strengthen their army and find new recruits they marched to Thessaly, since there were no

Slavs in Macedonia, to capture a small Slavic tribe living there. On their way there they were

annihilated by the Byzantine forces. In the next century forced movements of Slavic populations

from Greece to Asia Minor continued.

The conclusion is that the Byzantine emperors did everything possible to clear up the northern

territories (including Macedonia and Thrace of modern day Greece) of their empire of Slavs.

Various non-Greek sources indicate that not only Macedonia of modern day Greece but also

Rep. of Skopje (the latter, if not entirely, at least predominantly) were Greek till the late 15th

century AD.

C. Jirecek, in "Geschichte der Serben" claimed that Macedonians were always Greek and all the

area south of the line defined by the cities Achris-Skopje-Nissa-Sofia-Aimos-Messimbria was

greek (an assertion also confirmed by other authors such as Th. Mommsen, A. Karnach).

Hertzberg (in "Geschichte Byzantinissen") (Vol B, Book A, Chapter Gamma, page 184, 1906

edition). said that in 1282, the population below the line Euxinus Pontus-Aimos-Kustendil-

Skopje-Skutari was Greek, in tongue, in customs and working for the greek interests.


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One can then wonder when the Bulgarian idiom spoken by the Skopjans was in use say in the

lands of nowadays Rep. of Skopje, let alone in antiquity [since Skopjans claim that the Slavic

idiom spoken by the Slavs who descended to the Balkans in the 7th AD century was used by the

ancient Macedonian 1000-1500 years earlier!].

The French historian Haumant, in "La formation de la Yugoslavie", mentioned that in the 13th

century the area from Prisreni to Nissa was empty of people. If there were no Slavs there, then

how and when the "Macedonians" of Skopjan type appeared in Macedonia and the Republic of

Skopje? This is the reason Albanians (70%?) occupy the region of Cossyphopedio (Kosovo).

Hertzberg, in "Geschichte Byzantinissen", mentioned that when in the 14th century Dushan

shared his kingdom with his son he kept the greek area south of Skopje and gave his son the

northern Serbian areas (this is also confirmed by a Czech historian, Jirecek). All his orders were

then written in Greek and not in any idiom like the onenow spoken in the Republic of Skopje. In

1350 when John Katakouzenos was in the city of Verhoia representatives of all big greek cities(Skopje included) visited him and asked for help. Jirecek mentioned in his book that at this time

Skopje was a greek city inhabited mainly by Greeks despite being part of the Serbian kingdom

for more than a century. Following Dushan's death around 1355 his son's empire began to

collapse. Dushan's brother, Symeon, proclaimed himself an emperor and accorded himself the

surname of "Palaeologos" in an attempt to gain the favor of the Greek population of his

kingdom(empire). He also wrote his orders in Greek (and not in any strange called slavic

idioms).

Soon the Greeks gained the control of the garrisons of various greek cities (such as Verhoia,

Edessa, and Skopje). Officials in Dushan's empire quickly abandoned these greek cities and

moved to Prisreni and later to Krusevach. The greek inhabitants remained in the areas they had

been living for many centuries, if not millenia.

Since even in the years of Dushan, when the slavic influence and control in the areas of

Macedonia(Greece), western part of Albania, Republic of Skopje and Yugoslavia

(Serbia+Kosovo) was at its peak Macedonian Greeks were not "slavisized", how was that

possible under the Ottoman rule, when after the defeat of Serbia by the Ottomans circa 1459,

the Slavs migrated to the north and the area south of the city of Skopje was inhabited by

Greeks only? If the strong presence of Slavs at that time didn't cause the Macedonians tovanish how was that possible to happen before? How come the vanished Macedonians of 7th

AD survived as late as 15th AD? and later?


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Q20) Do the Skopjans have desires on Macedonia, Greece?

Greece claims that Skopjans, who are evidently non-Greeks, by using to identify themselves a

hellenic (greek) name that still identifies a region in modern Greece, the people living in that

region, and their thousands year old heritage, implies territorial claims on behalf of Skopje.

Such opinions were shared by US officials when the late Marshall Tito, in 1944, created a (now

former) Yugoslav Socialist Republic of "Macedonia".

There are many Skopjan provocations supporting Greece's position.

1. The use of Slavic names for Greek cities instead of the Greek ones (they prefer to call

Thessaloniki, Solun, to call Kastoria , Kostur, to call Florina, Lerin, to call Edessa, Voden etc),

beyond the usual changes that the translation of various names from one language to another

requires. The use of Slavic toponyms is intended to cast a doubt on the greekness of the various

places in Macedonia. This is also confirmed by the fact that the Skopjans never use the term say

"Greek Macedonia" but speak of the "Aegean Macedonia" (see discussion below).

2. The use of the term "Aegean Macedonia" (a term invented and used by Skopjans and

by people of similar desires) instead of say the more acceptable and less suspicious "Greek

Macedonia" to identify Macedonia, Greece (that is the region called Macedonia in Greece). This

can be interpreted as an attempt to present this part as a member of a whole (usually called

"Greater Macedonia") yet "unliberated". The Bulgarian oriented (terrorist) organization called

IMRO (founded in the beginning of the 20th century) and the current political party VMRO of

the Republic of Skopje expressed and express such claims quite often.

3. 3) [From [7]]: A calendar for the year 1981 was published in Skopje and circulated

around the world that had on its cover the word "macedonija" written in the Slavic script.

Under this word a warrior appeared, like the old Commitadjis [Bulgar terrorists who in the late

19th and early 20th century intended to include Macedonia and Thrace of Greece, Rep of

Skopje as well as areas of nowadays Bulgaria to then Bulgaria], with the bayonet fastened on

his rifle. Under him the well known Statue of Liberty (yes! the one in New York!) was depicted.

This statue is supported on a map of the Balkan Peninsula and largely on Macedonia, Greeece.

Under this picture it is written in english "Independent and Free Macedonia" (implying that

Macedonia, Greece was not free at that time!!!).

4. Maps depicting Macedonia, Greece, as part of the Republic of Skopje have been

published recently (November 1992) in Skopje according to various reports.

5. [From [7]]: In 1973 a large size picture book was circulated in many languages which

shows "the immigrants" from the other two sectors of "Macedonia" (supposedly the "Aegean

Macedonia" of Greece, as Macedonia is euphemistically called by the Skopjans, and the "Pirin


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Macedonia" as the southwestern part of Bulgaria is also called by the Skopjans) "who have not

been liberated yet", to "nostalgically" visit the "free" "Macedonia" of Skopje. This book, entitled

MACEDONIAN VISTAS is still under circulation (at the time of the writing of reference [7], i.e.

1984) in the bookstores of Belgrade and Skopje.'

6. More recently maps found in various Skopjan cultural centers around the world

include various areas of Greece in their Skopjan state (Thessaly is included in some cases).

7. In early 1992 a currency was printed in skopje depicting the White Tower a landmark

of Thessaloniki, the capital of Macedonia, Greece.

[NOTE: This was not an officially sanctioned banknote but a souvenir banknote printed by some

Skopje company. Still it is interesting why these things would be popular enough to make and

sell in Skopje. - ce107]

8. This fall it was decided in Rep. of Skopje that the coat of arms of the Republic ofSkopje would be the coats of arms of the royal family of Philippos II, father of Alexander the

Great. The coat of arms, a sun, was depicted in a gold larnax found in the grave of Philippos II,

in Vergina, Macedonia, Greece, by the late Professor Manolis Andronikos. There have been

announcements recently in Greek newspapers by Greek archaelogists that the so-called

Vergina-Star has also been found elsewhere in Greece (Attica) and these occurrences are dated

around the early 5th century BC (470BC).

It is open to the reader to decide what the Slavs of Skopje, who descended in the Balkans in the

late 7AD century that is 1000 years after the death of Philippos II, have to do with a greek tribe,

the coat of arms of their Greek Kings, and their greek heritage. It seems that the Skopjans will

never stop claiming other people's heritage.

[The following are take from reference [8]].

9. June 1951: A book is published entitled '"Slavomacedonian" fighters'. The hero of the

Greek war of independence Markos Botsaris is referred to as "Marc Botsar" allegedly a

"Macedonian" of the Skopjan type.

10. September 2, 1951: The Interior Ministry (of Yugoslavia) gives a certificate to a

person born in Agia Paraskevi, Macedonia, Greece. Macedonia is referred to as "People's

Republic of Aegean Macedonia." (For your own information, Greece has never been a People's

Republic, as this term is used by Communists).

11. November 1951: The Geography book for the third grade of High School for the

students of the then Socialist Republic that is now Rep. of Skopje allegedly mentioned that "our


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borders with Greece are just physical and not national ones, since the Aegean Macedonia

remains under the rule of Greece".

12. End of 1960: The Government in Belgrade adopted a law that officially recognised as

time served to the Yugoslavian Armed Forces the time served by Greek Communist guerillas in

Greek-communist organizations, other than EAM-ELAS, fighting against the Greek government

during the greek civil war 1944-1949. Participation in EAM-ELAS (1941-1949) has been

recognised since 1954.

13. February 1961: The filming of a movie entitled something like "Revolutionaries in

Thessaloniki" began at that time in Skopje. The topic of the movie was a Bulgarian terrorist act

in Thessaloniki in April 1903, when the city was under Ottoman rule. The Bulgars are depicted

in the film as "Macedonians" (of the skopjan type), and the terrorist event is depicted as part of

the "fight of Macedonians for independence".

This is just a small sample of the Skopjan provocations.

Q21) When did 'Macedonians' of the Skopjan type first appear?

Tito by the end of the WWII created a Yugoslav Socialist Republic that he called "Macedonia".

The inhabitants of this new Republic were called "Macedonians". The following figures of

Yugoslavian censuses show this.

According to preliminary results of the 1921 Yugoslavian census [Yugoslavia was called then

"Kingdom of the Serbs, Croats and Slovenes"], as these can be found in [8], the ethnic

composition of Yugoslavia at that time was (ethnic composition):

Serbs+Croats = 8,946,000 = 74.4%

Slovenes = 1,024,000 = 8.5%

Other Slavs = 174,000 = 1.5%

Germans = 513,000 = 4.3%

Hungarians = 472,000 = 3.9%

Albanians = 441,000 = 3.7%

Romanian = 229,000 = 1.9%

Italians = 12,000 = 0.1%

Others = 201,000 = 1.7%


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According to their religion:

Orthodox = 5,593,000 = 46.7%

Catholics = 4,708,000 = 39.3%

Muslims = 1,345,000 = 11.2%

Protestants = 229,000 = 1.9%

Jews = 64,000 = 0.5%

Greek-catholics = 40,000 = 0.4%

Other= 3,000 = 0.01%

As one can see, in 1921 there were no "Macedonians" and no "macedonian" language.

After the 1948 census the following figures were released. We have

Serbs = 6,547,000

Croats = 3,784,000

Slovenes = 1,415,000

"Macedonians" = 809,000

Mavrovounians (Montenegrians) = 425,000

Muslims = 808,000

It is interesting that a new nationality of "Macedonians" appeared in this census with a

population of 809,000 while 27 years ago no such nationality existed. It is also interesting to

note that according to this census no Albanians lived in Yugoslavia in 1948 while the 1921

census indicated the existence of 441,000 Albanians. This albanian population is hidden under

such terms (nationalities?) as "Macedonians", Mavrovounians, and Muslims. One can thus

conclude that this 1948 census not only created new imaginary nationalities, like

"Macedonians", but also erased existing ones. It seems creation and eradication of nationalities

was a major hobby of the late Marshall Tito.

According to the religion of the people living in Yugoslavia one gets the following:


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Orthodox = 49.53%

Catholics = 36.77%

Muslims = 12.52%

Other Christians = 1.14%

Jews = 0.04%

Minorities

Albanians = 750,000

Hungarians = 496,000

Vlachs = 102,000 (where did they come from? The Vlachs of Macedonia that resided in

Yugoslavia after the Balkan Wars were under 30,000.)

Turks = 98,000

Slovaks = 83,000

Italians = 79,000

Gypsies = 72,000

Bulgarians = 61,000

Russenoi* = 37,000

Germans = 55,000

Romanians = 64,000

Jews = 6800

Greeks = 1800

Czechs = 3900

* This is the translation of this term into English from Greek

It is surprising that the Greek minority in Yugoslavia is only 1,800. We simply note that during

the Greek civil of 1944-1949 Yugoslavia fully supported the Greek Communists and around

28,000 children were abducted and sent to Yugoslavia. Most of these children never returned

to their parents. It is believed that the majority of them remained in Yugoslavia.


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Q22) What was the population distribution of Macedonia, the Republic of Skopje, and parts

of Bulgaria in the years of Ottoman rule?

In 1912 Greeks and Bulgars living in the Ottoman Empire agreed on the number of members to

the Ottoman Parliament each group would select. It was agreed that in each Vilaet (Regions of

the Ottoman Empire) the number of Greek and Bulgarian representatives would be as follows.

Vilayet of Adrianoypoli - Greeks: 8 Bulgarians: 1 Vilayet of Thessaloniki and Monastirion - Greeks: 10 Bulgarians: 5 Vilayet of Cossypedhio(Kosovo) - Greeks: 0 Bulgarians: 2

No references to other Slavs, nor any protests of any kind, were filed after the elections. It can

thus be assumed that the Greek:Bulgar as well as Greek:Slav proportion of the population in

these vilaets was reflected in this arrangement.

Other (mainly of non-greek origin) sources from which one can draw conclusions on thepopulation of various ottoman ruled areas are:

An Italian, Amadore Virgilli, in "La questiona roma rumeliota" (1907, page 107) gave the

following statistics for the population of the two vilaets of Thessaloniki and Monastirion.

Thess:Greeks 362,000, Turks 423,500, Bulgars 198,000, Serbs 1400 Monast:Greeks 280,000, Turks 223,000, Bulgars 143,000, Serbs 6070

A German General [Von Der Golt in "Balkanwirren und ihre grunde" (1904)] who served in

Turkey and organised the Turkish Army claimed the following statistics for the two vilaets:

Muslims 730,000, Greeks 580,000, Bulgars 266,000, Serbs 19,000, Jews 60,000Therefore a statement that Macedonia was predominantly "slavic" (with slavs like the ones

residing in nowadays Skopje) seems to be incorrect. Nowadays Macedonia in Greece included

parts of the two vilaets of Thessaloniki and Monasterio. Parts of the Monasterio vilaet today

belong to Albania and Republic of SKopje. Parts of the Thessaloniki vilaet to Rep. of Skopje and

Bulgaria. There was a third vilaet, that of Skopje extending north in today's southern Serbia.

There are various other statistics that more or less agree with these figures.

There are also figures given by 4 writers that are quite strange.

According to the following author: Goptchevitch There were: Greeks 201,140 Bulgar57,600 Serbs 2,048,320

According to the following author: V.Kantcheff There were: Greeks 225,152 Bulgar1,184,036 Serbs 700


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According to the following author: M. Brancoff There were: Greeks 190,047 Bulgar1,172,136 Serbs - 0

According to the following author: Zolotovich There were: Greeks 0 Bulgar 1,334,583Serbs - 0

It is not very difficult to guess the nationalities of the 4 writers.

Other figures on the population of these two vialets (also extrapolated from the number of

schools and pupilsa attending these schools) are the following ones (some of the authors

counted only specific groups of people such as Bulgars and/or Greeks).

Gr: GreeksBu:BulgarsSe:Serbs

SpeliotopoulosGr 731,000Bu 232,000

FokasGr 636,000Bu 348,000

VirgilliGr 642,000Bu 341,000Se 16,500

NikolaidesGr 655,000Bu 332,000Se 22,800

Von der GoltsGr 580,000Bu 266,000Se 1900

V. ColocotroniGr 572,000Bu 253,000

Ecum. Patr * Gr 650,000Bu 332,000Se 1200

Hilmi Pasa ** Gr 664,000Bu 391,000Se 3000

* Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople.

** Hilmi Pasa, Turkish Governor(??) [yes - ce107].

After the population exchanges in the 1920s, 380,000 Turks left Greece and 538,253 Greeks

came to Macedonia from Asia Minor. In 1919 in the treaty of Neuilly it was decided that the

Bulgarian population residing in Greece would immigrate to Bulgaria and the Greek population

living in Bulgaria would immigrate to Greece by 1924. The time limit was extended to 1932

after through an application of the Bulgarian Government which the then Greek Governmentaccepted. Approximately 66,000 Bulgars left Greece at that time according to a report of the

League of Nations (the precursor of the United Nations). About 52,000 Bulgars left Greece.

Given that the 1928 Greek census gives for Macedonia a population of 1,412,477 this means

that there were close to 850,000 Greeks in Macedonia before the arrival of the Greeks from

Asia Minor. Considering the annual population increases one can conclude that an estimate of


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at least 660,000 for the Greeks in the two vilaets of Monasterio and Thessaloniki (and of

Macedonia) is a quite accurate one.

Q23) What is the nationality of the Vlachs?

Although this topic seems to be irrelevant it may not be so.

What exactly the nationality of Vlachs is, historically speaking, is an open question. The ones

living in Greece consider themselves Greeks, and no one i

faq on macedonia

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