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Jazz Inside Magazine

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March-April 2019 – Volume 9, Number 12

Cover Photo and photo at right of Julian Priester

By Ken Weiss

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CONTENTSCONTENTS

CLUBS, CONCERTS, EVENTSCLUBS, CONCERTS, EVENTS 13 Calendar of Events 18 Clubs & Venue Listings

4 Marcus Miller

INTERVIEWSINTERVIEWS 20 Julian Priester by Ken Weiss

30 Duduka DaFonseca 33 Ingrid Jensen

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Interview & Photos By Eric Nemeyer

JI: Could you discuss some of your sources of

inspiration and background?

MM: I’m from a musical family. My father

plays the piano. His cousin played piano with

Miles Davis. Wynton Kelly was his name. My

father’s father played the piano, and my fa-

ther’s sisters all sang. So music was part of my

life. To be honest, it wasn’t anything special. I

thought that’s what everybody did. You had

choir rehearsals at your house on Wednesdays,

and you heard your dad practicing all week.

You went to church and listened to that music.

Then you went down to the church basement

and performed for your family on Sunday af-

ternoons. That’s what I thought everybody did.

So music wasn’t really that special—it was

just part of my life. But when I heard the Jack-

son 5, when I was ten years old, and they told

me the kid singing was my age—that kind of

blew my mind. These guys were so talented

and the music was so incredible. Not only

were they talented, but they came at the end of

the Motown era … that Motown machine

where they were cranking out music. I mean,

they were a well-oiled machine. Those Jack-

son 5 tracks underneath the singing were just

as incredible as the singing. So it was a really

intoxicating package for a ten year old kid. At

that point, I said, “I think I need to take this

music stuff a little bit more seriously.” I start-

ed playing the bass and learning the songs.

Luckily, the bass player that I was emulating –

or who I thought I was emulating – was

Michael’s brother Germaine. He is the guy

who plays the bass when they’re on the stage.

I realize now that I was emulating James

Jamerson - the famous Motown session bass

player. He was playing on all the records. So I

got a really good solid foundation from those

Jackson 5 records. All the kids my age were

crazy about them. I guess every generation has

the kid group that they love. My generation

just happened to be fortunate enough to have

their kid group be a bunch of geniuses. Mi-

chael Jackson stayed inspirational for his

whole life - and up until a few years ago when

he passed. He was an inspiration to me. I was

at a bass clinic a few years ago and they said

we don’t have a drummer, we just want you to

play the bass for the kids and talk about the

bass. I ended up playing that song “I’ll Be

There” - which of course I’ve known for years

and years. It came out kind of cool and some-

body played me a tape of it and I said you

know what/ I need to put that on my album,

so.

JI: Is that the “I’ll Be There” that the Four

Tops recorded first around 1966?

MM: This is a completely different one that

Michael Jackson and the Jackson 5 recorded.

JI: How about War, one of the other inspira-

tions for the music on your album Renais-

sance.

MM: So we’re in the same period. I got drawn

into the R&B thing with the Jackson 5. Then

as a bass player, you start gravitating towards

funky bands. War was an incredible band at

that time, and Sly and the Family Stone, and a

little later Kool and the Gang and Tower of

Power were all important bands.

JI: War, led by Eric Burdon, was an out-

growth of his previous band, The Animals

who had hits with “Don’t Let Me Be Misun-

derstood,” and “House of the Rising Sun.”

MM: Exactly. That was Eric Burdon’s group.

In the ‘70’s, they were just coming up with

grooves. The grooves had a little bit of a New

Orleans flavor to them. The bass line usually

stayed in the same place creating a trance. One

of those songs was “Slippin’ Into Darkness.”

The bass just played three notes over and over

again. And that thing just got in your bones

man. I think I have some theme bass lines that

I walk around the street hearing in my head -

and that’s one of them. So every once in a

while, I pull them out and decide to try to do a

cover.

JI: Janelle Monáe—her song “Tightrope”?

MM: Well, that’s on the other side because

that song was out, like that song was a hit a

couple of years ago. But it’s so cool. It re-

minded me of the songs I loved because it has

a bass line that’s really cool. It sounded like a

boogie-woogie, New Orleans kind of feeling.

So I called Dr. John, whose voice kind of con-

tains New Orleans in it – to have him collabo-

rate with me on this song. We had a lot of fun.

JI: Ivan Lins’ compositions provide a com-

pletely different flavor on your CD.

MM: That guy writes such beautiful songs. I

recorded with him a few times. I first heard

“Setembro (Brazilian Wedding Song”) on a

Quincy Jones album - he did a beautiful ver-

sion, with wordless vocals. I wanted to do it

and, of course, I wanted to give it a spin be-

cause it doesn’t really make sense for me to

try to recreate a song in it’s original style. I

wanted to take the Brazilian part and switch it

over to Afro-Cuban. So I inserted a vamp in

“I wasn’t sure whether I wanted to take her [Roberta Flack’s] offer to play in the road band … But I ran into her

on the street in New York. She was rid-ing her bike. She said, ‘You haven’t re-turned my phone calls. Are you going to go on the road or not?’ I couldn’t

say no to her face—so I took the gig. It was one of the best things I ever did.”

Marcus Miller

Miles Davis, Sinatra, Grover Washington and more

INTERVIEWINTERVIEW


there, and got Ruben Blades to collaborate

with me to access that side of it. He came up

with a chant to sing during the vamp. Then we

got Gretchen Parlato, who’s a really well

known New York chant vocalist to do the

wordless vocals. Then she does a scat solo -

and it turned into something really nice.

JI: You were mentioning that sometimes you

just pick things up and you don’t even know

you’re picking up those ideas. Given the ex-

tensive list of musicians with whom you have

played – and to pick up some of those things

that you might not realize at the time that you

are picking up - could you talk about some of

recording sessions that have been highlights

for you, that may have contributed.

MM: I started out with Roberta Flack. That

was one of my early gigs. Initially, I wasn’t

sure whether I wanted to take her offer to play

in the road band—because at 19 years old, I

couldn’t imagine myself standing there play-

ing those slow songs all night. But I ran into

her on the street in New York. She was riding

her bike. She said, “You haven’t returned my

phone calls. Are you going to go on the road

or not?” I couldn’t say no to her face—so I

took the gig. It was one of the best things I

ever did. I was on the stage, playing these

songs that aren’t that difficult to play on bass.

But I saw how effective this music was. It was

the first time I ever saw people crying based

on someone singing a song. It was because it

was just so emotionally moving. It was a real

huge lesson for me. Luther Vandross was a

background singer in the band at the same

time. So he was learning the same lesson. Af-

ter a couple of years with Roberta, Luther and

I recorded Luther’s demo for him to get his

own record deal. A couple years later, I found

myself on the stage by him - watching him

affect people in the same way. It was a really

strong lesson about the power of music - and

how it’s not about playing all the notes, it’s

really about playing the right notes. That was

confirmed when I found myself in Miles Da-

vis’ band doing the same thing with a trumpet.

It’s just about finding these notes to affect

people. It has to do with setting them up, do-

ing what they expect up to a certain point.

Then, when they really think they know

what’s coming, that’s when you go some-

where else and really blow their minds. Rob-

erta was a genius at that. Luther was a genius.

Miles was a genius at that. I enjoyed playing

on Donald Fagen’s Nightfly. Somebody just

reminded me about that album. Brilliant. Don-

ald Fagen was half of Steely Dan. I played on

maybe four or five cuts. Just to see him put

music together ... He wanted each of the in-

struments to fit together, to mesh together like

a clock, like a Swiss clock. He was really in-

terested in how the bass interacted with the

guitar, which interacted with the drums. He

wanted them all to fit - to be really synchro-

nized.

JI: How did he communicate that to you or

expect you to do that?

MM: I’d play a take and then I’d hear him

solo. When we were in the control room lis-

tening back, he would solo the bass and the

guitar, or solo the bass and the drums—just

play just those two instruments without any of

the other instruments, to see how they meshed

together. I could tell what he was listening for.

So I said, “Oh, let me do one more take on it. I

got it. I see what you’re looking for and locked

it in for him.” That’s cool. But at the top of the

music were these beautiful melodies - these

really emotional, honest songs. If you have a

great song and then you really take some care

to put the music together, you can come up

with something beautiful. Bryan Ferry was

also a really cool artist to work with. He was

kind of a predecessor to Bowie. He’s still

around doing his thing. I first worked with him

in the ‘80’s and it was crazy. The guy would

show up in New York and call me to the stu-

dio. He’d have nothing but a drum beat. He’d

say play some bass to this drum beat. So I’d

throw some bass on there. He’d say, “Okay,

I’ll see you later.” A year and a half later,

they’d show up back in New York. I’d go to

the studio after they’d gone all around the

world overdubbing musicians to this drums

and bass thing that I had left him with a year

and a half earlier. This thing was now a tapes-

try. It was unbelievable – a collage of all these

different elements. They had this English rock

guitar from Britain and they had guys from the

Middle East playing percussion. It was incred-

ible to see somebody make music that way. He

was more like a painter than a musician. He

would add elements, stand back and look at it

for a while, and then add something else. The

album was called Boys and Girls. Then we did

another called Bête Noire, which was really

cool. I remember working with Aretha Frank-

lin. Luther was producing her. After he had his

first couple of hits, Clive Davis asked him to

produce Aretha.

JI: Was that when she recorded “Who’s

Zoomin’ Who” around 1985?

MM: It was right before that. We did “Jump

To It.” That was the hit that we wrote for her.

Some artists walk in the door and they’re

ready to start. They’re at the top of their emo-

tional peak as soon as they start playing. Are-

tha wasn’t one of those. She had to warm up.

She didn’t give it up right away. When she

finally started to get warm, it was just about

the time that the band was learning the song

and that everything was coming together. So,

you got these great performances. I started

comparing that to other situations where the

(Continued from page 4)

“Some artists walk in the door and they’re ready to start. They’re at the top of their emotional peak as soon as they start playing. Ar-etha wasn’t one of those. She had to warm up. She didn’t give it up right away. When she finally started to get warm, it was just about the time that the band was learning the song and that everything

was coming together. So, you got these great performances.”

— Anton Chekhov

“Encroachment of freedom will not come

about through one violent action or movement but will come about

through a series of actions that appear to be unrelated and coincidental, but

that were all along systematically planned for dictatorship.”

— John Adams, 2nd President

Marcus Miller


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artist, singer or the saxophone player, or

whoever’s album it was, would give their best

performances right at the beginning - the first

take. So by the time the band really kind of got

it together, they’d already peaked. Then those

artists were frustrated because they’re like,

“Man, I’m trying to capture the magic of that

first take and I can’t.” They’re on the down

side of the mountain. So I learned about pa-

tience. You have to peak as a group, as op-

posed to peaking as an individual. That was a

really, really important lesson.

JI: What kinds of experiences did you have

working with Grover Washington? What kinds

of instructions did he give you? What kinds of

things did you talk about?

MM: You know, with Grover, Ralph McDon-

ald was the producer. I had met Ralph about a

year earlier. I was playing with Bobbi Humph-

rey, who was a really well known flute player.

I wrote a song that Bobbi wanted to record.

She asked Ralph, who was producing her al-

bum, if she could have her young bass player

come in and play on the one song that he

wrote. Ralph let me come in and play. After

the session, Ralph asked, “Can you read mu-

sic?” I said, “Yes.” He said, “Don’t bullshit

me. Can you read it?” I said, “Yes, I can read

it really well.” He says, “Okay. I’m gonna

start recommending you because I like your

sound.” Not only did he start recommending

me for sessions, but he started calling me for

the sessions he was producing himself and one

of those artists that he was producing was

Grover Washington. So thanks to Ralph, be-

tween the time that he said he was going to

start recommending me and three months lat-

er, I was working 24 hours a day. In New

York, at that time, there was so much work. If

you could read and you could play with feel-

ing, there was a lot of opportunity. So Ralph

was really instrumental in kind of getting me

going. He called me for the Grover sessions.

I’m 19 years old. Three or four years before

that, I was playing along with records in my

bedroom. Now I’m sitting here playing. It ac-

tually felt like I was playing along with a

Grover Washington record, even when I was

recording with him. I did realize that I was

actually in the band because I played a lick

and then I heard Grover repeat the lick in his

solo right after that. I said, “Whoa!” That nev-

er happened in my bedroom when I was play-

ing along with the record. The musicians never

reacted to me when I was playing along with

the record. It was a beautiful experience. The

band was Steve Gadd on drums, Richard Tee

on piano, Eric Gale on guitar and Ralph

McDonald on percussions. It was a great

group. It was the Winelight album, and the big

hit off that album was “Just the Two of Us.”

JI: Were there some particularly memorable

moments that you might share?

MM: I remember a Frank Sinatra session.

Quincy Jones was the arranger and he handed

everybody music. George Benson was looking

at the music like, “Man, this stuff looks com-

plicated.” George is a real natural player. He

doesn’t read that much. I looked at it. I said,

“Man, don’t worry about it. This is right up

your alley.” Frank Sinatra showed up, started

singing and after he sang two verses, he said,

“Okay George Benson solo.” By that time,

George said, “Oh, I got this.” He killed it like

he always killed it. It was just funny to see

him be a little bit nervous before a session.

The album’s called LA is My Lady. The room

was full of musicians. Quincy was the arranger

and the conductor.

JI: Did you have any discussions with Frank

Sinatra? What kind of vibe was there in that

session?

MM: I took the elevator up to the seventh

floor where the studio was. This big Italian

dude was standing at the elevator. “What’s

your name?” I gave him my name. It’s the first

time I’ve ever had to go through security to

get to a recording session. We were all waiting

for Frank. Quincy ran the songs over with the

band. Frank showed up, sang a couple of

takes, then did the next song, and sang a cou-

ple of takes. He said, “I think that’s good Q,”

and he left. That was my experience with

Frank Sinatra. It was like that a lot. You just

go in, you read the music, you do your thing

and you leave. You make sure to sign your

form first, to make sure you get paid.

JI: You were involved with a lot of film music

and you worked with Spike Lee. Could you

talk about some of those experiences?

MM: Spike had had his first breakthrough

movie, She’s Gotta Have It. He had to really

scratch to get that one made. I think that was

his first film or the first one he got released

through a major distributor. I was just admir-

ing his work from afar and I got a phone call.

He said, “Marcus, this is Spike. Listen, I got a

beach party, a pool party scene in my next

movie. It’s got a bunch of girls with big be-

hinds in bathing suits, and I need you to write

a song for it. I need the song to be called ‘The

Butt’ and I need it to be the dance sensation

across the nation, okay? Call me when you got

something.” That was it. So I had to come up

with this tune called “The Butt.” So I got to-

gether with my songwriting buddy Mark Ste-

vens—who is Chaka Khan’s brother. We came

up with a song and we recorded a demo for

Spike and sent it to him. He said, “I love it.

Record it.” So we had a big recording session.

I really wanted it to be like a party song, and I

wanted the record to contain the party— like

some of the old ‘60’s records—where you can

hear people partying on the record. So I asked

Spike to bring the whole cast of the movie to

the studio. After we recorded the song, we ran

the song in the studio and recorded everybody

having a good time to the song. Even in the

studio, as I was recording it, I already knew it

was a hit - because I could see 55 people par-

tying to it. I said, “Oh, this works.” We really

had a good time, and as Spike predicted, it was

a huge dance hit. As a matter of fact, on MTV

awhile back, they had a special called

“Famous rear end songs,” and “Baby Got

Back” was one of them and “The Butt” was

another one. So I’m in good company I guess.

Spike asked me to produce the song on a go-

go band out of Washington, D.C. called E.U.

[Experience Unlimited]. They’re an incredible

band. That go-go movement in D.C. is very

interesting. It was started by Chuck Brown,

who recently passed but it was so interesting

because it really has stayed in D.C. It really

never became a national thing until this song,

“The Butt.” Spike’s movie enabled that go-go

sound to reach the rest of the nation.

JI: What other movies did you work on that

made an impact on you?

MM: I did House Party. That was my first big

one. Then I did Eddie Murphy’s Boomerang,

which was a really cool movie – with Eddie

Murphy, Robin Givens, Halle Barry, Martin

Lawrence, Grace Jones, David Allen Grier,

Chris Rock. That was the first time I started

using R&B elements in the score as opposed

to just using strings or something like that.

Because it was an urban movie, I figured it

could stand to use some rhythm in the score. I

did a movie called Two Can Play That Game

with Vivica A. Fox.

JI: To calculate where every piece of music,

every note and rhythm went in a film, you

used to had to have your slide rule out to cal-

culate the number of frames per second, sec-

onds per frame, and all that. Now it’s so much

quicker and easier.

MM: The computer changes all that. You used

to have to come to a scoring session with cal-

culators. If you wanted to make sure the or-

chestra hit when the guy, when the cars

crashed or something like that, you had to re-

ally do some measurements - to figure out

what tempo you could make the music … so

that a good beat on the music would corre-

spond with the car crash. Now, your computer

can do that in two seconds. So it’s not as diffi-

cult. The other thing that makes it not as diffi-

cult is that a movie composer had to be able to

(Continued on page 9)

Marcus Miller


imagine the whole score in his head. All he

would do really was to play it on the piano for

the director. So, just imagine - it’s gonna be

huge. Now, with your samplers and your key-

boards and everything, the director walks in

the studio and you play it, it basically sounds

like an orchestra already - because you have

all these samples. So people don’t have the

imagination that they used to have, because

you can kind of realize anything you want.

JI: Remember when you watched movies or

TV shows where the themes were overwhelm-

ingly new and original. Some of the most

memorable songs were the themes on some of

those TV sitcoms and westerns. Now you go

to the movies, and when they say buy the

score, much of the music is made up record-

ings that are licensed from current pop albums

or are hits from the past that you already

know.

MM: Well, you know, there did become a

division between the soundtrack and the score.

If you go to old movies, they were one and the

same. The soundtrack was the score. The same

music that you heard while you were watching

the movie was on the album that you bought.

But after Saturday Night Fever, which was the

number one selling album of all time before...

Saturday Night Fever was a perfect movie to

do that with because it was a dance movie.

They could put some dance songs in there.

They realized there was so much money to be

made from the soundtracks that they just start-

ed putting hits on the soundtracks - even if the

hits had nothing to do with the movie. They’d

get some great artists to put some hits togeth-

er, and then they’d put it on the soundtrack

and they’d say something like, “music inspired

by the movie” - because everyone realizes it

didn’t have anything to do with the movie.

Well, now because of the economic situation,

they’re not even asking artists to create new

music. Lots of times, they just go in the cata-

log and find great songs that they think are

appropriate. That’s the new trend now. Plus,

with a new song, you can never be guaranteed

that it’s gonna be a hit. With an old one,

there’s a guarantee. It’s already a hit. So

you’re hedging your bet a little bit.

JI: In writing music for films, working with

either the director or the producer, what have

been some of the challenges that you’ve expe-

rienced – in the role of creative individual

versus corporate decision maker?

MM: Well, the first thing you have to learn as

a musician is that your job is simply to guide

people emotionally through the film. Some-

times when I was first starting to write music

for movies, the director would say, “Man,

that’s a beautiful piece of music. But no one’s

paying attention to my scene because you’ve

got too much going on with the music that’s

drawing people’s attention. Okay? I appreciate

what you did, but you’ve got to help me out

here. I could use about a third of what you

wrote just to support my scene.” So you begin

to realize that your music is simply a compo-

nent of the overall picture. When you’re mak-

ing music for a CD, your music is the whole

thing - so it has to be a complete picture. But

lots of times with movie scores, the music

simply has to kind of be an emotional guide

for people. If people notice the music in the

scene, it means the music is not really doing

its job right.

JI: Stanley Clarke has mentioned that when he

was writing music for some film, the Producer

or Director told him that they didn’t want any

minor chords in the music. So he wrote every-

thing using augmented chords - which to the

untrained ear could sound like they’re minor

chords.

MM: Sounds like Stanley. What you’ve got to

realize is that if you’re going to go into any

kind of musical work where you’re going to be

interfacing with people who aren’t musicians -

you have to allow for the fact that they don’t

know the language. That doesn’t mean they’re

dumb. It just means they don’t know the lan-

guage. So for a lot of people, minor just means

that it has a feeling of darkness. It gives them

a feeling of darkness. I’ve had a lot of direc-

tors who are really smart guys who, when they

start using laymen’s terms, when I’m talking

to them, I use the musical term. By the end of

the movie process, these guys are educated,

and they have the language to communicate.

For me, the bigger problem is when they know

just a little bit about music. That’s a problem.

Because then they really start. , I had a guy

when I did a soundtrack for a film and the

producer told me, “Listen, this is primarily for

children. Children don’t like minor chords.”

I’m like, “Okay.” I’m not sure about that be-

cause I’ve been to a bunch of Disney films and

the minor doesn’t do anything but set up the

major and the end of the film. You need that.

JI: Tension and release - that’s a big part of

successful music and storytelling and a lot of

other things.

MM: Yeah. Tension and release and minor

chords serve a purpose. I decided that what he

really meant was that he didn’t want it to be

overly dark. I’m not going to take him literally

and not have any minor chords. That’s ridicu-

lous. The whole thing about a kids’ film is to

set it up, scare the hell out of them, and then

resolve it in a really nice way.

JI: What kinds of interesting or dramatic mo-

ments have you experienced in recording mu-

sic for films?

MM: I was doing a film for Disney and they

had one guy assigned to the session whose job

was simply to keep me moving, so that they

didn’t spend too much money on this orchestra

that was very expensive. The director was

there and we were getting towards the end of

the session. The director goes on the talk back

speakers into the room conducting the orches-

tra. He said, “Listen man, I forgot to tell you

that I need music in this one 15-second sec-

tion.” The Disney guy is freaking out because

we’re getting ready to go into overtime - be-

cause I’m going to have to take a break and

compose the stuff in the back room, and then

send it to the copyist who’s going to have to

write it out for all the different musicians. We

had 16 people. So I said, “Listen, everybody in

the orchestra … please take out your pen-

cils.” I dictated … I said violins, chord, note,

rest …. eight notes going down from C natural

going down to A natural.” I dictated every-

body’s part right there on the spot and said,

“Okay, let’s try it.” So we did. I changed a

couple of things. We got the piece ready to go

in seven minutes.

JI: Was this a new piece of music, or were

you taking thematic material that you were

using elsewhere in the score?

MM: No, I had to write it right there on the

spot. But, you know, I pulled it together in

seven minutes and then we recorded it, and we

were done. One of my assistants, who does a

lot of films said, “You know, you jazz guys

have it so easy because somebody throws

something at you and you just improvise right

there on the spot. It doesn’t freak you out.

Somebody else would have had to go in the

back room, and sit at the piano for half an hour

to come up with something.”


Marcus Miller

““Good character is more to be praised than

outstanding talent. Most talents are, to some extent, a gift. Good character,

by contrast, is not given to us. We have to build it piece by piece -- by

thought, choice, courage and determination.”

- John Luther


Interview & Photo By Eric Nemeyer

JI: How much do you miss Wilmington, Del-

aware?

EW: [laughs] It was a great place to grow up.

Because it was so quiet, it was a perfect place

to practice and study and get it together.

That’s what I did mostly – just practice and

listen to records. Then I graduated from high

school there. I went to West Chester College

for a year and then I got a Downbeat scholar-

ship to the Berklee School of Music in Boston

and I went up to Boston. That’s where I met

Alan Broadbent. Alan had won one of the

Downbeat scholarships in New Zealand and

he came over on a boat from New Zealand so

we both got in the program the same year.

JI: When you were in Wilmington, you were

a kid when Clifford Brown was still around?

EW: I was after Clifford. I think he died in

1955, ’56, and I started playing in 1958. I

knew of him but missed him. He’s buried

about three blocks from the house where I

grew up.

JI: You were near Philadelphia, which had a

flourishing jazz scene at the time. Did you get

a chance to go up there often?

EW: I went up to the Academy of Music. I

heard the Jazztet there. We used to go up to

Birdland. A friend of mine, a trumpet player,

his father had an apartment in New York and

we would come up for weekends and go to

Birdland. That was the first time I heard Art

Blakey’s group, with Wayne Shorter and

Freddie Hubbard—that fantastic band with

Curtis Fuller, Cedar Walton, Jimmy Merritt.

They were trading sets with the Gerry Mulli-

gan Big Band. Mulligan’s Big Band would

come on and they would sound like a small

group, because they played very quietly. And

then Art Blakey’s band would come on with

six guys and they’d sound like a big band.

[laughs] It was incredible, the energy. We

used to do that and that was a lot of fun. Then

I used to go the University of Delaware. They

used to have concerts. That was where I heard

Cannonball play live for the first time. I met

him and we talked. He let me play his horn

and stuff like that. I was in high school, so it

was a really inspiring experience. My first

jazz record was Kind of Blue, so I was already

very familiar with his playing and with Col-

trane’s playing from listening to that record.

When I met Cannonball, it was quite an expe-

rience. And then later on, we were really good

friends. I played with his group and we did

some recordings and some TV things and a

bunch of stuff in LA. He was a good man.

JI: Did he give you any words of motivation

or inspiration when you first met him?

EW: Not really. I mean, it was always play-

ing. It was always through the music. You

know, it’s always an amazing thing – when

you’re a young kid and you’re playing, and

then you start playing with these people that

are people you grew up listening to, it’s al-

ways quite a thrill to know that people that

you love and appreciate, appreciate what you

do too. I spent two years with Buddy Rich’s

band, just traveling around, meeting all these

people and playing with everybody. It was

like a family. Everybody was learning, and

everybody was learning from everybody. The

young guys were learning from the older

guys, the older guys were listening to the

younger guys and saying, “What’s that?” The

process never ends. That’s the thing that’s

really alive about it. It’s always evolving, it’s

always growing, and it never ends. That’s

what keeps you young, because there’s always

something to learn. You don’t retire from

something that you love. If you’re doing

something that you don’t particularly like,

then okay, that’s great, you retire – you get

away from it. But the thing is, if you do music

and you do because you love it, you do it be-

cause you want to do it, then what’s to retire

from?

JI: When you were playing with Cannonball,

who played alto sax, were you playing alto or

tenor?

EW: I was playing alto. I started originally

with – my very, very first instrument was –

the baritone. It’s a funny kind of story. I was

interested in art in junior high. This was grade

seven. I wasn’t really that interested in learn-

ing an instrument. I had a friend that wanted

to learn to play the saxophone. It was fall, the

beginning of the school year, and the music

department at the school had instruments to

lend. They were ready to start teaching peo-

ple. So we went to the music department. I

went with him on a lunch break. He wanted to

learn the saxophone and I didn’t know, I fig-

ured I’d try something, and I wanted to get a

trombone. I must’ve seen The Glenn Miller

Story on TV that week or something, and I

figured, “I’ll try the trombone. That looks like

fun.” My friend got a tenor saxophone. They

were all out of trombones so I got a baritone

saxophone because I was tall for my age and

the teacher figured I could carry it in march-

ing band. So I started on baritone, and then a

couple of months later they got an alto saxo-

phone and I started playing the alto, through

the school system of Wilmington, Delaware. I

was studying with the teacher at the school.

Practicing – I was immediately drawn to it so

I practiced all the time.

JI: Initially, practicing entails reading, learn-

ing scales, and so forth. How did you make

the transition to developing your improvisa-

tional skills and how did that begin?


Ernie Watts

The Process Never Ends

INTERVIEWINTERVIEW


EW: Well it all worked together. At that time

in my school system there was no jazz depart-

ment, so I studied classical music with the

teacher at the school. Eventually I started

studying classical music at the conservatory in

Wilmington, learning all of the transcriptions

for saxophone – the Bach and the Beethoven,

and then the beautiful French music. I was

reading music and studying the classical tech-

nique for the saxophone and my neighbor, Ali

Jenkins, he had a wonderful record collection.

Our house was a rowhouse, so he lived next

door. He could hear me practicing through the

wall. He started lending me records. The first

record he loaned me was a Dave Brubeck

record called Jazz Moves to College and I

heard Paul Desmond. Paul played so melodi-

cally and so clearly that I could play those

things with him on the record player. That’s

how I started improvising and dealing with

the concept of improvising – playing with

records. I learned intuitively. I learned the

saxophone technically and physically to play

through classical music. I learned all my

scales, the correct embouchure, how to play

the instrument “correctly.” But then at the

same time I was listening to records and im-

provising and learning to improvise by ear,

the intuitive way. After a while, my mother

realized that I wasn’t going to quit. I was al-

ways self-driven. They never made me prac-

tice. So I kept practicing and my mother real-

ized that I wasn’t going to stop, so what she

did was she joined the Columbia Record Club

one Christmas. She brought me a little stereo

record player. Everything that I used to get, I

grew up out of the Sears catalog. So Sears had

this music section called Silvertone. She or-

dered me the Silvertone stereo. She joined the

Columbia Record Club and the first record

she got for me, which was a freebie that year,

was Kind of Blue. That was the new jazz rec-

ord that year. That’s why I figured it was

1958, ’59. I heard that and that was it for me.

I heard everybody in the band. I heard Can-

nonball – he was incredible – and Miles, Jim-

my Cobb, Paul Chambers, and then there were

two piano players, Bill Evans and Wynton

Kelly. Then I heard Coltrane and it was like

this revelation to me. It was like sticking my

finger in a light socket. I mean the hair just

stood up on the back of my neck when I heard

him play. Being thirteen or fourteen, I could-

n’t explain what he was doing. The only way I

could explain it was it sounded like he was

playing in another key, but it worked, right?

Because everybody in the band, they had a

certain vocabulary and they dealt with the

harmony in a particular way, and they all kind

of had the same vocabulary so their music

was in a mid-range. But when Coltrane

played, he just took it to a whole other play,

harmonically and technically. So to me as a

kid, it sounded like he was playing in another

key, but it worked. So that was it. From there

on, I always wanted to play in the other key.

[laughs] But then after a while I learned about

chord-scales, the diminished scales, and all

the mixolydian patterns and all of those

things. But as a kid, that was the way I figured

it out for myself. Then, that’s all I did was

listen to Coltrane. I took my lunch money and

every week I’d buy a Coltrane record. I had a

little stack around my record player so every

night, I’d put three or four Coltrane records on

the stacker and then I’d go to sleep listening

to Coltrane. So I was hearing all those melod-

ic things intuitively – fourths and dominant

scales and all of those things. I was playing

them and I didn’t know what they were, but I

was still dealing with the vocabulary. Later on

I learned what they were. Listening to Can-

nonball, Charlie Parker, Eric Dolphy, all of

these incredible players, and then as I kid,

being thirteen or fourteen, I figured, “Well,

that’s just the way you play. That’s the way

the saxophone sounds.” That’s the way I

learned how to play. I was about thirty years

old before I realized that that was some of the

most involved music that there ever was. I

thought, “Well, that’s jazz. That’s what you

do.’ [laughs] That’s the way I learned to play.

JI: Did you later, in an effort to expand on

what you knew intuitively, transcribe solos or

otherwise do things to connect the dots?

EW: No, I never transcribed a lot of solos. I

still study a lot of solos. I study a lot of Col-

trane things, because they’re just so wonder-

ful. He was one of the great all-time virtuosos.

But I get them from Andrew White in Wash-

ington, D.C. I just got a bunch of stuff from

Andrew a couple of weeks ago. I did the To-

night Show for twenty years with Doc Sev-

erinsen’s band and I met Andrew when he

was playing electric bass with The Fifth Di-

mension. So he comes on The Tonight Show

and we introduce each other. He’s a great guy.

He says, “I’m ready to publish these transcrip-

tions. What do you think of that? Do you

think people would be interested?” I said,

“Man, that sounds great!” He started doing it,

I guess, in the seventies. I enjoy that. I study

some classical repertoire and the Coltrane

things, just as studies. As far as playing goes –

this was way before I started studying An-

drew’s things – I learned from the energy of

the music. I always tapped into the energy. So

I never transcribed what Coltrane was play-

ing, but I got in touch with the energy of it.

Intervallically, I could tell what he was doing.

But it was always my own choice of notes. I

never memorized the solo to “Giant Steps.” I

never memorized the solo to any of the great,

famous saxophone solos. For some reason, I

got it in my mind when I was very young, that

jazz was a creative art form, and everybody

had a right to their own, their own concept,

and their own way of assimilating the infor-

mation and creating their vocabulary. That’s

what it was supposed to be. The jazz vocabu-

lary was supposed to be a unique, individual

vocabulary. So I didn’t really learn from

memorizing licks. I learned from getting in

touch with the melodic energy. These guys

were such incredible players, but there a mel-

ody that went through everything. I listen to a

lot of Keith Jarrett. I don’t listen to a lot of

saxophone players; I listen to a lot of piano. I

listen to Keith a lot because everything he

plays is a melody. Everything, everything has

a melodic context to it. Coltrane, as bizarre as

his stuff got at the end, as free and open as it

got, there was always a melodic core. Same

thing with Cannonball. Same thing with all

great players. If you start doing research on

what makes an instrumentalist great, the peo-

ple that you respect and the people that you

hear, that you really love and keep going back

to, are all the people that were in touch with a

melodic thread.

JI: You mentioned the intuitive aspect. You

can teach the theory first, but if somebody

doesn’t feel the electricity from the music

itself, they’re not going to be able to com-

municate that. You don’t have to know exact-

ly what you’re doing while trying to emulate

what you’re hearing. You can always apply

the theory later.

EW: And it all works together. But the thing

is, I think the beginning, the essence of it, is

just really loving the music. The energy that

you put into learning and putting all the pieces

together is related to this deep love that you

have for wanting to play this music. Then you

do whatever you need to do to learn how to

get better.

Continued in the next issue

of Jazz Inside Magazine


“Ultimate success is not directly related to early success,

if you consider that many successful people did not give clear evidence

of such promise in youth.”

- Robert Fritz, The Path Of Least Resistance

Ernie Watts

Hello, my name is David Haney. I am a pianist and composer. In 2012 I took over as publisher and editor of Cadence Magazine. We have the same mandate to present independent free press. We are dedicated to the promotion of creative music. I encourage you to give us a try. You will love the new Cadence.

http://www.cadencejazzmagazine.com

13 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 March-April 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com

Sunday, March 10 Freddy Cole Quintet: Songs For Lovers; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln

Center, 60th & Bdwy

Jazz For Kids; The Clayton Brothers Quintet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

George Cables Trio - George Cables, Piano; Dezron Douglas, Bass; Victor Lewis, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Billy Kaye Quartet; Brandon Sanders Quintet; Nick Hempton Band; Alon Near Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Scott Reeves Jazz Orchestra; The Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra; Bird-land, 315 W. 44th St.

Ron Carter's Blue Note Winter Residency; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Monday, March 11 Brussels Jazz Orchestra & Tutu Puoane: We Have A Dream; Dizzy’s

Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Mingus Big Band: Celebrating 10 Years At Jazz Standard; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Ronnie Burrage & Holographic Principle; Jonathan Barber Quartet; Jon Elbaz Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Lorna Dallas; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Wallace Roney Quintet - March Residency; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Tuesday, March 12 Brussels Jazz Orchestra & Tutu Puoane: We Have A Dream; Dizzy’s

Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Michael Leonhart Orchestra "Valentine's Day Show: Movie Love Themes"; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.


Jeremy Manasia Quartet; Abraham Burton Quartet; Malik McLaurine Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Catherine Russell and Her Septet: Alone Together; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Thundercat; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Wednesday, March 13 Brian Charette: Music For Organ Sextette; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At

Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Double Date With Tierney & Kate: From Django To Joni; Jazz Stand-ard, 116 E. 27th St.


John Stetch & Vulneraville; Dave Pietro Quintet; Davis Whitfield Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.



Thursday, March 14 Valentine’s Day: Kim Nalley Sings Love Songs; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At


Double Date With Tierney & Kate: From Django To Joni; Jazz Stand-ard, 116 E. 27th St.


Phil Stewart Quartet; Chris Byars Original Sextet; Jonathan Thomas Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.



Friday, March 15 Kim Nalley: Love Songs; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th &

Bdwy



Michael Weiss Quartet; Alexander Claffy Quintet; JD Allen "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.



Saturday, March 16 Kim Nalley: Love Songs; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th &

Bdwy



Smalls Showcase: Dean Tsur Saxophone Choir; Michael Weiss Quartet; Alexander Claffy Quintet; Brooklyn Circle; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.



Sunday, March 17 Kim Nalley: Love Songs; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th &

Bdwy

Jazz For Kids; Mingus Big Band: Celebrating 10 Years At Jazz Stand-ard; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.


Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Emanuele Tozzi Quintet; Bill Goodwin Trio; Joe Magnarelli Group; Ben Zweig Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Birdland Latin Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Monday, March 18 Juilliard Jazz Ensembles; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th &

Bdwy

Mingus Orchestra: Celebrating 10 Years At Jazz Standard; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.


Ari Hoenig Trio; Joel Frahm Trio; Sean Mason Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Judi Silvano and The Zephyr Band; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Tuesday, March 19 John Chin Quintet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Godwin Louis; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Dayna Stephens Quartet - Dayna Stephens, Saxophone; Aaron Parks, Piano; Ben Street, Bass; Greg Hutchinson, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Steve Nelson Quartet; Frank Lacy's Tromboniverse; Malik McLaurine Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Saxophone Summit with Joe Lovano, Dave Liebman, and Greg Osby; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

David Sanborn; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Wednesday, March 20 Bobby Broom Organi-Sation: Soul Fingers; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At


An Evening With Branford Marsalis; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.


Rob Bargad's Reunion 7tet; Harold Mabern Trio; Micah Thomas Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.



Thursday, March 21 David Binney’s Angelino Quartet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Cen-

ter, 60th & Bdwy

Spanish Harlem Orchestra; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. (Continued on page 14)

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Rob Bargad's Reunion 7tet; Oleg Butman/Natalia Smirnova Quartet; Aaron Seeber "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.



Friday, March 22 Warren Wolf Quartet Featuring Joe Locke; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At


Spanish Harlem Orchestra; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.


Santi Debriano and Flash of the Spirit; Alex Sipiagin Quintet; Corey Wallace DUBtet "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.



Saturday, March 23 Warren Wolf Quartet Featuring Joe Locke; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At


Spanish Harlem Orchestra; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.


Santi Debriano and Flash of the Spirit; Alex Sipiagin Quintet; Philip Harper Quintet; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.



Family Concert: Who Is Miles Davis? Trumpeter Sean Jones hosts this hour-long concert, in which families will learn about the trials and triumphs of legendary trumpeter Miles Davis’ career and hear what made his music so special. 1PM, 3PM, Rose Theater, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Sunday, March 24 Warren Wolf Quartet Featuring Joe Locke; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At


Jazz For Kids; Spanish Harlem Orchestra; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.


Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Charles Owens Trio; Alon Near Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Emilio Solla Tango Jazz Orchestra; The Ktet; The Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Monday, March 25 Matthew Shipp Trio; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th &

Bdwy



Lucas Pino Nonet; Rodney Green Group; Jon Elbaz Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Victoria Shaw; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Tuesday, March 26 Allison Miller’s Boom Tic Boom; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center,

60th & Bdwy

Steve Slagle's A.M. Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Terell Stafford Quintet - Terell Stafford, Trumpet; Tim Warfield, Saxo-phone; Bruce Barth, Piano; Peter Washington, Bass; Billy Williams, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Robert Edwards Quintet; Abraham Burton Quartet; Malik McLaurine Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Eric Harland's Voyager; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Wednesday, March 27 Black Art Jazz Collective; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th &

Bdwy

Joey Defrancesco Trio With Troy Roberts And Billy Hart; Jazz Stand-ard, 116 E. 27th St.


Michael Stephans: Quartette Oblique; Amos Hoffman Trio; Davis Whitfield Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Cyrille Aimee: A Sondheim Adventure; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Eric Harland's Voyager; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Thursday, March 28 Black Art Jazz Collective; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th &

Bdwy

Alfredo Rodriguez/Pedrito Martinez Duo; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.


Brandi Disterheft Quartet; Amos Hoffman Trio; Jonathan Thomas Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Cyrille Aimee: A Sondheim Adventure; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Cory Henry Birthday Residency: The Revival; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Duduka Da Fonseca, Helio Alves And Maucha Adnet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Friday, March 29 Avishai Cohen Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Bobby McFerrin & Gimme5 w Joey Blake, Dave Worm, Judi Vinar & Rhiannon; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Birdland Big Band; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Marcus Miller: Electric Miles - Bassist and long-time Miles Davis collaborator Marcus Miller leads a wide-ranging exploration of Davis’ bold experiments with jazz, rock, funk, hip-hop, and electronic fusions. 8PM, Rose Theater, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Saturday, March 30 Avishai Cohen Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.


Eric Comstock; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


http://www.jazz.org/dizzys


Ernie WattsErnie Watts

© Eric Nemeyer© Eric Nemeyer



Marcus Miller: Electric Miles - Bassist and long-time Miles Davis collaborator Marcus Miller leads a wide-ranging exploration of Davis’ bold experiments with jazz, rock, funk, hip-hop, and electronic fusions. 8PM, Rose Theater, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Sunday March 31 Jazz For Kids; Avishai Cohen Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.


Renee Manning/Earl McIntyre Septet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Monday, April 1 William Paterson University Jazz Orchestra & Quintet With Ingrid

Jensen; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Ari Hoenig Quartet; Joe Farnsworth Trio feat. Buster Williams; Jon Elbaz Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Georgia Middleman and Gary Burr; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Deborah Davis, 21st Annual Jazz Benefit; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Tuesday, April 2 J.D. Allen Quartet Featuring Liberty Ellman; Jazz Standard, 116 E.

27th St.

Yotam Silberstein Quartet Featuring John Patitucci; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Sullivan Fortner Trio - Sullivan Fortner, Piano; Ameen Saleem, Bass; Jeremy ‘Bean’ Clemons, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Hillel Salem Quintet; Abraham Burton Quartet; Malik McLaurine Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Benny Green; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Joshua Redman Quartet: Aaron Goldberg/Reuben Rogers/Gregory Hutchinson; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Wednesday, April 3 J.D. Allen Quartet Featuring Liberty Ellman; Jazz Standard, 116 E.

27th St.

Yotam Silberstein Quartet Featuring John Patitucci; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Brent Birckhead; Sam Dillon Quartet; Davis Whitfield Quartet "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Clint Holmes Celebrates The Jazz of Sammy Davis. Jr From The Copa to Broadway; Joe Alterman; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Thursday, April 4 Veronica Swift; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

An Evening With Ben Vereen; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Aaron Seeber Quartet; Francisco Mela and the Crash Trio; Malick Koly "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Diane Marino; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Friday, April 5 Veronica Swift; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.



Eliot Zigmund Quintet; Ken Fowser Quintet; JD Allen "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Birdland Big Band; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


McCoy Tyner and Charles McPherson At 80; Pianist McCoy Tyner and saxophonist Charles McPherson join the Jazz at Lincoln Center Orchestra with Wynton Marsalis for an 80th birthday celebration. 8PM, Rose Theater, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Saturday, April 6 Veronica Swift; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.



Eliot Zigmund Quintet; Ken Fowser Quintet; Brooklyn Circle; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.


McCoy Tyner and Charles McPherson At 80; Pianist McCoy Tyner and saxophonist Charles McPherson join the Jazz at Lincoln Center Orchestra with Wynton Marsalis for an 80th birthday celebration. 8PM, Rose Theater, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Sunday, April 7

Jazz For Kids; Veronica Swift; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.



Jeremy Manasia Quintet; The Zebtet: Music of Saul Zebulon Rubin; Alon Near Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Monday, April 8 Mingus Big Band: Celebrating 10 Years at Jazz Standard; Jazz

Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Manhattan School Of Music Jazz Orchestra: Manhattan Sings; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Omer Avital Trio; Rodney Green Quartet; Sean Mason Trio; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Jim Caruso's Cast Party; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Pablo Sainz Villegas; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Tuesday, April 9 SFJAZZ Collective plays Miles Davis; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Julien Labro & The Chanson Experiment; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Steve Wilson & Wilsonian’s Grain - Steve Wilson, Alto Saxophone; Orrin Evans, Piano; Ugonna Okegwo, Bass; Ulysses Owens, Jr., Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Justin Robinson Quartet; Frank Lacy's Tromboniverse; Malik McLau-rine Trio; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

James Carter Organ Trio; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Dizzy Gillespie Afro Cuban All-Stars; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Wednesday, April 10 SFJAZZ Collective plays Miles Davis; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Mason Brothers Quintet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Remy Le Boeuf Quintet; Mike Lee Trio; Davis Whitfield Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.


Dizzy Gillespie Afro Cuban All-Stars; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Thursday, April 11 SFJAZZ Collective plays Miles Davis; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Mason Brothers Quintet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Carlos Abadie Quintet; Jerry Weldon Quartet; Jonathan Thomas Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.


Arturo Sandoval; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Friday, April 12 SFJAZZ Collective plays Antonio Carlos Jobim; Jazz Standard, 116 E.

27th St.

Sherman Irby & Momentum; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Ralph Bowen Quartet; John Marshall Quintet; Corey Wallace DUBtet "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.



Saturday April 13 SFJAZZ Collective plays Antonio Carlos Jobim; Jazz Standard, 116 E.

27th St.



Ralph Bowen Quartet; John Marshall Quintet; Philip Harper Quintet; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.




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Sunday, April 14 SFJAZZ Collective plays Antonio Carlos Jobim; Jazz Standard, 116 E.

27th St.



Joey "G-Clef" Cavaseno Quartet; Bruce Harris Quintet; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.





Monday Nights With WBGO, Yale Jazz Ensemble Featuring Randy Brecker And Wayne Escoffery; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Joe Martin Quartet; Joe Farnsworth Trio; Jon Elbaz Trio; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Jed Levy; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Purchase Jazz Orchestra: Conducted by Jon Faddis w/ Ken Peplowski; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Tuesday, April 16 Michael Leonhart Orchestra; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

American Pianists Association Competition Winner; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Tom Harrell “Infinity” - Mark Turner, Tenor Saxophone; Charles Altura, Guitar; Ugonna Okegwo, Bass; Johnathan Blake, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Spike Wilner Trio; Josh Evans Quintet; Malik McLaurine Trio; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Daryl Sherman "Spring Fever" with Art Baron, trombone; Boots Maleson, bass; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Big Sam's Funky Nation; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Wednesday, April 17

April Miho Hazama and m_unit "Dancer in Nowhere"; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Jazz At Lincoln Center Gala - Dizzy’s Club Closed


Stephen Riley Quartet; Harold Mabern Trio; Micah Thomas Trio; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Sheila Jordan; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Hector Del Curto w/ Paquito D'Rivera; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Thursday, April 18 Larry Goldings/Peter Bernstein/Bill Stewart; Jazz Standard, 116 E.

27th St.

Monty Alexander Trio; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


New York Jazz Nine; Moutin Factory Quintet; Malick Koly; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.


Terence Blanchard ft The E-Collective; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Friday, April 19 Larry Goldings/Peter Bernstein/Bill Stewart; Jazz Standard, 116 E.

27th St.



George Burton Quartet; JD Allen; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.


Michael Wolff Trio; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Saturday, April 20 Larry Goldings/Peter Bernstein/Bill Stewart; Jazz Standard, 116 E.

27th St.



George Burton Quartet; Brooklyn Circle; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.


Michael Wolff Trio; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Sunday, April 21 Larry Goldings/Peter Bernstein/Bill Stewart; Jazz Standard, 116 E.

27th St.



Stranahan/Zaleski/Rosato; Ned Goold Quartet; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.



Monday April 22 Mingus Big Band: Celebrating 10 Years at Jazz Standard; Jazz


Purchase Jazz Orchestra With Special Guest Steve Nelson; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Ari Hoenig Quartet; Joe Dyson Quintet; Sean Mason Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Roy Haynes 94th Birthday Celebration; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Tuesday, April 23 Darcy James Argue's Secret Society; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Sam Reider & Human Hands; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Gerald Clayton Quintet - Logan Richardson, Alto Saxophone; Walter Smith III, Tenor Saxophone; Gerald Clayton, Piano; Joe Sanders, Bass; Marcus Gilmore, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Gene Jackson Trio; Frank Lacy's Tromboniverse; Malik McLaurine Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Kurt Rosenwinkel; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Wednesday, April 24 Darcy James Argue's Secret Society; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Evan Christopher: The Kings Of New Orleans Clarinet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Matt Pavolka's Horns Band; Dave Baron Quintet; Micah Thomas Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Kurt Rosenwinkel; Dena DeRose Featuring Special Guest Artist: Houston Person; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Thursday, April 25 Stefon Harris & Blackout; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

“New York, Old Friend”: Songs Of Kenneth D. Laub With Clint Holmes, Veronica Swift And Nicolas King; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Matt Haviland Quartet; Jim Snidero Quintet; Jonathan Thomas Trio; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.


Manhattan Transfer; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Wynton Marsalis and Ken Burns: Country Music - Jazz at Lincoln Center Orchestra with Wynton Marsalis and vocalists Emmylou Harris, Rhiannon Giddens, and Marty Stuart perform country hits. Plus get a sneak peek at Ken Burns’ latest documentary, Country Music. 8PM, Rose Theater, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Friday, April 26 Stefon Harris & Blackout; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Kenny Barron Quartet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Christopher McBride; Noah Preminger Quintet; Corey Wallace DUBtet "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.



Saturday, April 27 Stefon Harris & Blackout; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.



Christopher McBride & The Whole Proof; Noah Preminger Quintet; Philip Harper Quintet; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.




Sunday, April 28 Stefon Harris & Blackout; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.



Chris Byars Original Sextet; JC Stylles Group; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Ken Peplowski Big Band with Special Guest John Pizzarelli; Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.



Temple University Jazz Band With Terell Stafford And Marshall Gilkes; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Ari Hoenig Trio; Kennci 4; Jon Elbaz Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Natalie Douglas "Nat Sings Nat: The Songs of Nat King Cole" With Mark Hartman; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Tuesday April 30 International Jazz Day - Camille Thurman With The Darrell Green Trio;

Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Joe Locke Group + Special Guest Raul Midón; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Gilad Hekselman; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Steve Nelson Quartet; Abraham Burton Quartet; Malik McLaurine Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Frank Catalano Quartet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

“...among human beings jealousy ranks distinctly as a

weakness; a trademark of small minds; a property of all small minds, yet a property

which even the smallest is ashamed of; and when accused of its possession will

lyingly deny it and resent the accusation as an insult.”

-Mark Twain

“Some people’s idea of free speech is that they are free

to say what they like, but if anyone says anything back that

is an outrage.”

- Winston Churchill


5 C Cultural Center, 68 Avenue C. 212-477-5993. www.5ccc.com

55 Bar, 55 Christopher St. 212-929-9883, 55bar.com

92nd St Y, 1395 Lexington Ave, New York, NY 10128,

212.415.5500, 92ndsty.org

Aaron Davis Hall, City College of NY, Convent Ave., 212-650-

6900, aarondavishall.org

Alice Tully Hall, Lincoln Center, Broadway & 65th St., 212-875-

5050, lincolncenter.org/default.asp

Allen Room, Lincoln Center, Time Warner Center, Broadway and

60th, 5th floor, 212-258-9800, lincolncenter.org

American Museum of Natural History, 81st St. & Central Park

W., 212-769-5100, amnh.org

Antibes Bistro, 112 Suffolk Street. 212-533-6088.

www.antibesbistro.com

Arthur’s Tavern, 57 Grove St., 212-675-6879 or 917-301-8759,

arthurstavernnyc.com

Arts Maplewood, P.O. Box 383, Maplewood, NJ 07040; 973-378-

2133, artsmaplewood.org

Avery Fischer Hall, Lincoln Center, Columbus Ave. & 65th St.,

212-875-5030, lincolncenter.org

BAM Café, 30 Lafayette Av, Brooklyn, 718-636-4100, bam.org

Bar Chord, 1008 Cortelyou Rd., Brooklyn, barchordnyc.com

Bar Lunatico, 486 Halsey St., Brooklyn. 718-513-0339.

222.barlunatico.com

Barbes, 376 9th St. (corner of 6th Ave.), Park Slope, Brooklyn,

718-965-9177, barbesbrooklyn.com

Barge Music, Fulton Ferry Landing, Brooklyn, 718-624-2083,

bargemusic.org

B.B. King’s Blues Bar, 237 W. 42nd St., 212-997-4144,

bbkingblues.com

Beacon Theatre, 74th St. & Broadway, 212-496-7070

Beco Bar, 45 Richardson, Brooklyn. 718-599-1645.

www.becobar.com

Bickford Theatre, on Columbia Turnpike @ Normandy Heights

Road, east of downtown Morristown. 973-744-2600

Birdland, 315 W. 44th, 212-581-3080

Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd, 212-475-8592, bluenotejazz.com

Bourbon St Bar and Grille, 346 W. 46th St, NY, 10036,

212-245-2030, [email protected]

Bowery Poetry Club, 308 Bowery (at Bleecker), 212-614-0505,

bowerypoetry.com

BRIC House, 647 Fulton St. Brooklyn, NY 11217, 718-683-5600,

http://bricartsmedia.org

Brooklyn Public Library, Grand Army Plaza, 2nd Fl, Brooklyn,

NY, 718-230-2100, brooklynpubliclibrary.org

Café Carlyle, 35 E. 76th St., 212-570-7189, thecarlyle.com

Café Loup, 105 W. 13th St. (West Village) , between Sixth and

Seventh Aves., 212-255-4746

Café St. Bart’s, 109 E. 50th St, 212-888-2664, cafestbarts.com

Cafe Noctambulo, 178 2nd Ave. 212-995-0900. cafenoctam-

bulo.com

Caffe Vivaldi, 32 Jones St, NYC; caffevivaldi.com

Candlelight Lounge, 24 Passaic St, Trenton. 609-695-9612.

Carnegie Hall, 7th Av & 57th, 212-247-7800, carnegiehall.org

Cassandra’s Jazz, 2256 7th Avenue. 917-435-2250. cassan-

drasjazz.com

Chico’s House Of Jazz, In Shoppes at the Arcade, 631 Lake Ave.,

Asbury Park, 732-774-5299

City Winery, 155 Varick St. Bet. Vandam & Spring St., 212-608-

0555. citywinery.com

Cleopatra’s Needle, 2485 Broadway (betw 92nd & 93rd), 212-769-

6969, cleopatrasneedleny.com

Club Bonafide, 212 W. 52nd, 646-918-6189. clubbonafide.com

C’mon Everybody, 325 Franklin Avenue, Brooklyn.

www.cmoneverybody.com

Copeland’s, 547 W. 145th St. (at Bdwy), 212-234-2356

Cornelia St Café, 29 Cornelia, 212-989-9319

Count Basie Theatre, 99 Monmouth St., Red Bank, New Jersey

07701, 732-842-9000, countbasietheatre.org

Crossroads at Garwood, 78 North Ave., Garwood, NJ 07027,

908-232-5666

Cutting Room, 19 W. 24th St, 212-691-1900

Dizzy’s Club, Broadway at 60th St., 5th Floor, 212-258-9595,

jalc.com

DROM, 85 Avenue A, New York, 212-777-1157, dromnyc.com

The Ear Inn, 326 Spring St., NY, 212-226-9060, earinn.com

East Village Social, 126 St. Marks Place. 646-755-8662.

www.evsnyc.com

Edward Hopper House, 82 N. Broadway, Nyack NY. 854-358-

0774.

El Museo Del Barrio, 1230 Fifth Ave (at 104th St.), Tel: 212-831-

7272, Fax: 212-831-7927, elmuseo.org

Esperanto, 145 Avenue C. 212-505-6559. www.esperantony.com

The Falcon, 1348 Rt. 9W, Marlboro, NY., 845) 236-7970,

Fat Cat, 75 Christopher St., 212-675-7369, fatcatjazz.com

Fine and Rare, 9 East 37th Street. www.fineandrare.nyc

Five Spot, 459 Myrtle Ave, Brooklyn, NY, 718-852-0202, fivespot-

soulfood.com

Flushing Town Hall, 137-35 Northern Blvd., Flushing, NY, 718-

463-7700 x222, flushingtownhall.org

For My Sweet, 1103 Fulton St., Brooklyn, NY 718-857-1427

Galapagos, 70 N. 6th St., Brooklyn, NY, 718-782-5188, galapago-

sartspace.com

Garage Restaurant and Café, 99 Seventh Ave. (betw 4th and

Bleecker), 212-645-0600, garagerest.com

Garden Café, 4961 Broadway, by 207th St., New York, 10034,

212-544-9480

Gin Fizz, 308 Lenox Ave, 2nd floor. (212) 289-2220.

www.ginfizzharlem.com

Ginny’s Supper Club, 310 Malcolm X Boulevard Manhattan, NY

10027, 212-792-9001, http://redroosterharlem.com/ginnys/

Glen Rock Inn, 222 Rock Road, Glen Rock, NJ, (201) 445-2362,

glenrockinn.com

GoodRoom, 98 Meserole, Bklyn, 718-349-2373, goodroombk.com.

Green Growler, 368 S, Riverside Ave., Croton-on-Hudson NY.

914-862-0961. www.thegreengrowler.com

Greenwich Village Bistro, 13 Carmine St., 212-206-9777, green-

wichvillagebistro.com

Harlem on 5th, 2150 5th Avenue. 212-234-5600.

www.harlemonfifth.com

Harlem Tea Room, 1793A Madison Ave., 212-348-3471, har-

lemtearoom.com

Hat City Kitchen, 459 Valley St, Orange. 862-252-9147.

hatcitykitchen.com

Havana Central West End, 2911 Broadway/114th St), NYC,

212-662-8830, havanacentral.com

Highline Ballroom, 431 West 16th St (between 9th & 10th Ave.

highlineballroom.com, 212-414-4314.

Hopewell Valley Bistro, 15 East Broad St, Hopewell, NJ 08525,

609-466-9889, hopewellvalleybistro.com

Hudson Room, 27 S. Division St., Peekskill NY. 914-788-FOOD.

hudsonroom.com

Hyatt New Brunswick, 2 Albany St., New Brunswick, NJ

IBeam Music Studio, 168 7th St., Brooklyn, ibeambrooklyn.com

INC American Bar & Kitchen, 302 George St., New Brunswick

NJ. (732) 640-0553. www.increstaurant.com

Iridium, 1650 Broadway, 212-582-2121, iridiumjazzclub.com

Jazz 966, 966 Fulton St., Brooklyn, NY, 718-638-6910

Jazz at Lincoln Center, 33 W. 60th St., 212-258-9800, jalc.org

Frederick P. Rose Hall, Broadway at 60th St., 5th Floor

Dizzy’s Club Coca-Cola, Reservations: 212-258-9595

Rose Theater, Tickets: 212-721-6500, The Allen Room, Tickets:

212-721-6500

Jazz Gallery, 1160 Bdwy, (212) 242-1063, jazzgallery.org

The Jazz Spot, 375 Kosciuszko St. (enter at 179 Marcus Garvey

Blvd.), Brooklyn, NY, 718-453-7825, thejazz.8m.com

Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St., 212-576-2232, jazzstandard.net

Joe’s Pub at the Public Theater, 425 Lafayette St & Astor Pl.,

212-539-8778, joespub.com

John Birks Gillespie Auditorium (see Baha’i Center)

Jules Bistro, 65 St. Marks Pl, 212-477-5560, julesbistro.com

Kasser Theater, 1 Normal Av, Montclair State College, Montclair,

973-655-4000, montclair.edu

Key Club, 58 Park Pl, Newark, NJ, 973-799-0306, keyclubnj.com

Kitano Hotel, 66 Park Ave., 212-885-7119. kitano.com

Knickerbocker Bar & Grill, 33 University Pl., 212-228-8490,

knickerbockerbarandgrill.com

Knitting Factory, 74 Leonard St, 212-219-3132, knittingfacto-

ry.com

Langham Place — Measure, Fifth Avenue, 400 Fifth Avenue

New York, NY 10018, 212-613-8738, langhamplacehotels.com

La Lanterna (Bar Next Door at La Lanterna), 129 MacDougal St,

New York, 212-529-5945, lalanternarcaffe.com

Le Cirque Cafe, 151 E. 58th St., lecirque.com

Le Fanfare, 1103 Manhattan Ave., Brooklyn. 347-987-4244.

www.lefanfare.com

Le Madeleine, 403 W. 43rd St. (betw 9th & 10th Ave.), New York,

New York, 212-246-2993, lemadeleine.com

Les Gallery Clemente Soto Velez, 107 Suffolk St, 212-260-4080

Lexington Hotel, 511 Lexington Ave. (212) 755-4400.

www.lexinghotelnyc.com

Live @ The Falcon, 1348 Route 9W, Marlboro, NY 12542,

Living Room, 154 Ludlow St. 212-533-7235, livingroomny.com

The Local 269, 269 E. Houston St. (corner of Suffolk St.), NYC

Makor, 35 W. 67th St., 212-601-1000, makor.org

Lounge Zen, 254 DeGraw Ave, Teaneck, NJ, (201) 692-8585,

lounge-zen.com

Maureen’s Jazz Cellar, 2 N. Broadway, Nyack NY. 845-535-

3143. maureensjazzcellar.com

Maxwell’s, 1039 Washington St, Hoboken, NJ, 201-653-1703

McCarter Theater, 91 University Pl., Princeton, 609-258-2787,

mccarter.org

Merkin Concert Hall, Kaufman Center, 129 W. 67th St., 212-501

-3330, ekcc.org/merkin.htm

Metropolitan Room, 34 West 22nd St NY, NY 10012, 212-206-

0440

Mezzrow, 163 West 10th Street, Basement, New York, NY

10014. 646-476-4346. www.mezzrow.com

Minton’s, 206 W 118th St., 212-243-2222, mintonsharlem.com

Mirelle’s, 170 Post Ave., Westbury, NY, 516-338-4933

MIST Harlem, 46 W. 116th St., myimagestudios.com

Mixed Notes Café, 333 Elmont Rd., Elmont, NY (Queens area),

516-328-2233, mixednotescafe.com

Montauk Club, 25 8th Ave., Brooklyn, 718-638-0800,

montaukclub.com

Moscow 57, 168½ Delancey. 212-260-5775. moscow57.com

Muchmore’s, 2 Havemeyer St., Brooklyn. 718-576-3222.

www.muchmoresnyc.com

Mundo, 37-06 36th St., Queens. mundony.com

Museum of the City of New York, 1220 Fifth Ave. (between

103rd & 104th St.), 212-534-1672, mcny.org

Musicians’ Local 802, 332 W. 48th, 718-468-7376

National Sawdust, 80 N. 6th St., Brooklyn. 646-779-8455.

www.nationalsawdust.org

Newark Museum, 49 Washington St, Newark, New Jersey 07102-

3176, 973-596-6550, newarkmuseum.org

New Jersey Performing Arts Center, 1 Center St., Newark, NJ,

07102, 973-642-8989, njpac.org

New Leaf Restaurant, 1 Margaret Corbin Dr., Ft. Tryon Park. 212-

568-5323. newleafrestaurant.com

New School Performance Space, 55 W. 13th St., 5th Floor (betw

5th & 6th Ave.), 212-229-5896, newschool.edu.

New School University-Tishman Auditorium, 66 W. 12th St., 1st

Floor, Room 106, 212-229-5488, newschool.edu

New York City Baha’i Center, 53 E. 11th St. (betw Broadway &

University), 212-222-5159, bahainyc.org

North Square Lounge, 103 Waverly Pl. (at MacDougal St.),

212-254-1200, northsquarejazz.com

Oak Room at The Algonquin Hotel, 59 W. 44th St. (betw 5th and

6th Ave.), 212-840-6800, thealgonquin.net

Oceana Restaurant, 120 West 49th St, New York, NY 10020

212-759-5941, oceanarestaurant.com

Orchid, 765 Sixth Ave. (betw 25th & 26th St.), 212-206-9928

The Owl, 497 Rogers Ave, Bklyn. 718-774-0042. www.theowl.nyc

Palazzo Restaurant, 11 South Fullerton Avenue, Montclair. 973-

746-6778. palazzonj.com

Priory Jazz Club: 223 W Market, Newark, 07103, 973-639-7885

Proper Café, 217-01 Linden Blvd., Queens, 718-341-2233

Clubs, Venues & Jazz ResourcesClubs, Venues & Jazz Resources

— Anton Chekhov

“A system of morality

which is based on relative

emotional values is a mere

illusion, a thoroughly vulgar

conception which has nothing

sound in it and nothing true.”

— Socrates


Prospect Park Bandshell, 9th St. & Prospect Park W., Brooklyn,

NY, 718-768-0855

Prospect Wine Bar & Bistro, 16 Prospect St. Westfield, NJ,

908-232-7320, 16prospect.com, cjayrecords.com

Red Eye Grill, 890 7th Av (56th), 212-541-9000, redeyegrill.com

Ridgefield Playhouse, 80 East Ridge, parallel to Main St.,

Ridgefield, CT; ridgefieldplayhouse.org, 203-438-5795

Rockwood Music Hall, 196 Allen St, 212-477-4155

Rose Center (American Museum of Natural History), 81st St.

(Central Park W. & Columbus), 212-769-5100, amnh.org/rose

Rose Hall, 33 W. 60th St., 212-258-9800, jalc.org

Rosendale Café, 434 Main St., PO Box 436, Rosendale, NY 12472,

845-658-9048, rosendalecafe.com

Rubin Museum of Art - “Harlem in the Himalayas”, 150 W. 17th

St. 212-620-5000. rmanyc.org

Rustik, 471 DeKalb Ave, Brooklyn, NY, 347-406-9700,

rustikrestaurant.com

St. Mark’s Church, 131 10th St. (at 2nd Ave.), 212-674-6377

St. Nick’s Pub, 773 St. Nicholas Av (at 149th), 212-283-9728

St. Peter’s Church, 619 Lexington (at 54th), 212-935-2200,

saintpeters.org

Sasa’s Lounge, 924 Columbus Ave, Between 105th & 106th St.

NY, NY 10025, 212-865-5159, sasasloungenyc.yolasite.com

Savoy Grill, 60 Park Place, Newark, NJ 07102, 973-286-1700

Schomburg Center, 515 Malcolm X Blvd., 212-491-2200,

nypl.org/research/sc/sc.html

Shanghai Jazz, 24 Main St., Madison, NJ, 973-822-2899, shang-

haijazz.com

ShapeShifter Lab, 18 Whitwell Pl, Brooklyn, NY 11215

shapeshifterlab.com

Showman’s, 375 W. 125th St., 212-864-8941

Sidewalk Café, 94 Ave. A, 212-473-7373

Sista’s Place, 456 Nostrand, Bklyn, 718-398-1766, sistasplace.org

Skippers Plane St Pub, 304 University Ave. Newark NJ, 973-733-

9300, skippersplaneStpub.com

Smalls Jazz Club, 183 W. 10th St. (at 7th Ave.), 212-929-7565,

SmallsJazzClub.com

Smith’s Bar, 701 8th Ave, New York, 212-246-3268

Sofia’s Restaurant - Club Cache’ [downstairs], Edison Hotel,

221 W. 46th St. (between Broadway & 8th Ave), 212-719-5799

South Gate Restaurant & Bar, 154 Central Park South, 212-484-

5120, 154southgate.com

South Orange Performing Arts Center, One SOPAC

Way, South Orange, NJ 07079, sopacnow.org, 973-313-2787

Spectrum, 2nd floor, 121 Ludlow St.

Spoken Words Café, 266 4th Av, Brooklyn, 718-596-3923

Stanley H. Kaplan Penthouse, 165 W. 65th St., 10th Floor,

212-721-6500, lincolncenter.org

The Stone, Ave. C & 2nd St., thestonenyc.com

Strand Bistro, 33 W. 37th St. 212-584-4000

SubCulture, 45 Bleecker St., subculturenewyork.com

Sugar Bar, 254 W. 72nd St, 212-579-0222, sugarbarnyc.com

Swing 46, 349 W. 46th St.(betw 8th & 9th Ave.),

212-262-9554, swing46.com

Symphony Space, 2537 Broadway, Tel: 212-864-1414, Fax: 212-

932-3228, symphonyspace.org

Tea Lounge, 837 Union St. (betw 6th & 7th Ave), Park Slope,

Broooklyn, 718-789-2762, tealoungeNY.com

Terra Blues, 149 Bleecker St. (betw Thompson & LaGuardia),

212-777-7776, terrablues.com

Threes Brewing, 333 Douglass St., Brooklyn. 718-522-2110.

www.threesbrewing.com

Tito Puente’s Restaurant and Cabaret, 64 City Island Avenue,

City Island, Bronx, 718-885-3200, titopuentesrestaurant.com

Tomi Jazz, 239 E. 53rd St., 646-497-1254, tomijazz.com

Tonic, 107 Norfolk St. (betw Delancey & Rivington), Tel: 212-358-

7501, Fax: 212-358-1237, tonicnyc.com

Town Hall, 123 W. 43rd St., 212-997-1003

Triad Theater, 158 W. 72nd St. (betw Broadway & Columbus

Ave.), 212-362-2590, triadnyc.com

Tribeca Performing Arts Center, 199 Chambers St, 10007,

[email protected], tribecapac.org

Trumpets, 6 Depot Square, Montclair, NJ, 973-744-2600,

trumpetsjazz.com

Turning Point Cafe, 468 Piermont Ave. Piermont, N.Y. 10968

(845) 359-1089, http://turningpointcafe.com

Urbo, 11 Times Square. 212-542-8950. urbonyc.com

Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S., 212-255-4037

Vision Festival, 212-696-6681, [email protected],

Watchung Arts Center, 18 Stirling Rd, Watchung, NJ 07069,

908-753-0190, watchungarts.org

Watercolor Café, 2094 Boston Post Road, Larchmont, NY 10538,

914-834-2213, watercolorcafe.net

Weill Recital Hall, Carnegie Hall, 57th & 7th Ave, 212-247-7800

Williamsburg Music Center, 367 Bedford Avenue, Brooklyn, NY

11211, (718) 384-1654 wmcjazz.org

Zankel Hall, 881 7th Ave, New York, 212-247-7800

Zinc Bar, 82 West 3rd St.

RECORD STORES

Academy Records, 12 W. 18th St., New York, NY 10011, 212-242

-3000, http://academy-records.com

Downtown Music Gallery, 13 Monroe St, New York, NY 10002,

(212) 473-0043, downtownmusicgallery.com

Jazz Record Center, 236 W. 26th St., Room 804,

212-675-4480, jazzrecordcenter.com

MUSIC STORES

Roberto’s Woodwind & Brass, 149 West 46th St. NY, NY 10036,

646-366-0240, robertoswoodwind.com

Sam Ash, 333 W 34th St, New York, NY 10001

Phone: (212) 719-2299 samash.com

Sadowsky Guitars Ltd, 2107 41st Avenue 4th Floor, Long Island

City, NY 11101, 718-433-1990. sadowsky.com

Steve Maxwell Vintage Drums, 723 7th Ave, 3rd Floor, New

York, NY 10019, 212-730-8138, maxwelldrums.com

SCHOOLS, COLLEGES, CONSERVATORIES

92nd St Y, 1395 Lexington Ave, New York, NY 10128

212.415.5500; 92ndsty.org

Brooklyn-Queens Conservatory of Music, 42-76 Main St.,

Flushing, NY, Tel: 718-461-8910, Fax: 718-886-2450

Brooklyn Conservatory of Music, 58 Seventh Ave., Brooklyn,

NY, 718-622-3300, brooklynconservatory.com

City College of NY-Jazz Program, 212-650-5411,

Drummers Collective, 541 6th Ave, New York, NY 10011,

212-741-0091, thecoll.com

Five Towns College, 305 N. Service, 516-424-7000, x Hills, NY

Greenwich House Music School, 46 Barrow St., Tel: 212-242-

4770, Fax: 212-366-9621, greenwichhouse.org

Juilliard School of Music, 60 Lincoln Ctr, 212-799-5000

LaGuardia Community College/CUNI, 31-10 Thomson Ave.,

Long Island City, 718-482-5151

Lincoln Center — Jazz At Lincoln Center, 140 W. 65th St.,

10023, 212-258-9816, 212-258-9900

Long Island University — Brooklyn Campus, Dept. of Music,

University Plaza, Brooklyn, 718-488-1051, 718-488-1372

Manhattan School of Music, 120 Claremont Ave., 10027,

212-749-2805, 2802, 212-749-3025

NJ City Univ, 2039 Kennedy Blvd., Jersey City, 888-441-6528

New School, 55 W. 13th St., 212-229-5896, 212-229-8936

NY University, 35 West 4th St. Rm #777, 212-998-5446

NY Jazz Academy, 718-426-0633 NYJazzAcademy.com

Princeton University-Dept. of Music, Woolworth Center Musical

Studies, Princeton, NJ, 609-258-4241, 609-258-6793

Queens College — Copland School of Music, City University of

NY, Flushing, 718-997-3800

Rutgers Univ. at New Brunswick, Jazz Studies, Douglass Cam-

pus, PO Box 270, New Brunswick, NJ, 908-932-9302

Rutgers University Institute of Jazz Studies, 185 University

Avenue, Newark NJ 07102, 973-353-5595

newarkrutgers.edu/IJS/index1.html

SUNY Purchase, 735 Anderson Hill, Purchase, 914-251-6300

Swing University (see Jazz At Lincoln Center, under Venues)

William Paterson University Jazz Studies Program, 300 Pompton

Rd, Wayne, NJ, 973-720-2320

RADIO

WBGO 88.3 FM, 54 Park Pl, Newark, NJ 07102, Tel: 973-624-

8880, Fax: 973-824-8888, wbgo.org

WCWP, LIU/C.W. Post Campus

WFDU, http://alpha.fdu.edu/wfdu/wfdufm/index2.html

WKCR 89.9, Columbia University, 2920 Broadway

Mailcode 2612, NY 10027, 212-854-9920, columbia.edu/cu/wkcr

ADDITIONAL JAZZ RESOURCES

Big Apple Jazz, bigapplejazz.com, 718-606-8442, gor-

[email protected]

Louis Armstrong House, 34-56 107th St, Corona, NY 11368,

718-997-3670, satchmo.net

Institute of Jazz Studies, John Cotton Dana Library, Rutgers-

Univ, 185 University Av, Newark, NJ, 07102, 973-353-5595

Jazzmobile, Inc., jazzmobile.org

Jazz Museum in Harlem, 104 E. 126th St., 212-348-8300,

jazzmuseuminharlem.org

Jazz Foundation of America, 322 W. 48th St. 10036,

212-245-3999, jazzfoundation.org

New Jersey Jazz Society, 1-800-303-NJJS, njjs.org

New York Blues & Jazz Society, NYBluesandJazz.org

Rubin Museum, 150 W. 17th St, New York, NY,

212-620-5000 ex 344, rmanyc.org.

“It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world

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— Mark Twain


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Interview and photo by Ken Weiss

Julian Priester (born June 29, 1935, Chicago,

Illinois) is one of the most influential trombon-

ists in history. He’s a highly advanced and ex-

traordinarily versatile artist capable of playing

bebop, hard bop, post-bop, R & B, fusion, gos-

pel and avant-garde jazz. After performing

around Chicago with bluesmen Muddy Waters

and Bo Diddley, Priester spent time with Sun

Ra, Lionel Hampton, Dinah Washington, Max

Roach, Duke Ellington, Art Blakey, Dave Hol-

land and Herbie Hancock. He’s not been per-

forming as much as he’d like since devoting

himself to teaching at Seattle’s Cornish College

of the Arts [1979 to 2011] and battling signifi-

cant health and life issues, but he’s now ready

and able to be more active. This phone interview

took place on January 12, 2019.

Jazz Inside Magazine: Your contribution to

music has been significant since the mid-‘50s.

Collaborating with Sun Ra, Lionel Hampton,

Dinah Washington, Max Roach, John Coltrane,

Duke Ellington, Art Blakey, Herbie Hancock

should afford you recognition as a master crea-

tive artist, yet you’ve been underappreciated

throughout your career. Why do you think that

is?

Julian Priester: There’s several reasons. One

has to do with the instrument that I perform on. I

think that the trombone itself is underappreciat-

ed in the hierarchy of instruments among the

general public, as well as the instrument that

young, aspiring musicians choose to play. An-

other reason is my personality, I’m very nonag-

gressive, and that did impact my career. In fact,

my own family wanted to know why I wasn’t

more aggressive off stage, why I wasn’t in the

ear of the movers and shakers of the jazz indus-

try? I was never aggressive enough to make a

phone call and introduce myself and ask for an

opportunity. I was still able to do things, basical-

ly because of friends, particularly through John-

ny Griffin, who was also a Chicagoan. He

helped introduce me to people when I moved to

New York.

JI: You’ve made few recordings as a leader

over your career, a total of 11 albums, and that

includes a stretch of 20 years, beginning in

1977, where you did not release any material

under your own name. Why so few?

JP: That has to do with several things including

my relationship with the industry. How can I put

this? I wasn’t as marketable as I should have

been. I resented the spotlight and the glamor

needed to sell records. I’m not a showoff, a talk-

er. I’m kind of shy, I guess that’s the best word

for it, at least off the stage. I get aggressive with

the trombone in my hand, but I’m quiet without

it. I wanted to be an artist like Charlie Parker, in

musical respects [Laughs], not so much lifestyle.

I wanted to create brilliant music. There was a

strike already against me, as far as playing the

trombone, and its popularity. It’s a great instru-

ment however, and I blame the audience for not

understanding that. [Laughs] I really wanted to

break that barrier and somehow make the public

aware of this beautiful instrument and its pluses.

The character of the trombone is unique and it’s

not recognized. I fell in love with the trombone

and here I am.

JI: What do you feel is your biggest contribu-

tion/innovation to music and the evolution of

trombone playing?

JP: I strove to elevate the character of the trom-

bone. My hero was J.J. Johnson, and although he

was a great study, I wanted to get away from J.J.

I learned a lot by listening to him, but I didn’t

think it was beneficial for me to sound like him,

so I chose to study saxophone players, especially

Sonny Rollins and Charlie Parker, who was the

number one influence in my career. The tenor

saxophone and the trombone share the same

register, so I studied jazz music listening to tenor

saxophonists and trying to imitate that instru-

ment’s flexibility on the trombone. Of course,

there was no way I could actually do that be-

cause of the mechanics of the two instruments,

but I was able to develop a style that was sort of

reaching into that direction and it was far

enough away from J.J. Johnson. That gave me a

better chance to market myself. There were oth-

er great trombone players - Slide Hampton, Cur-

tis Fuller, Grachan Moncur, and others, and I

don’t mean to diminish they’re contributions,

but I desired to be different. I really respect mu-

sicians who are innovative. You had to have a

unique voice to really be recognized and no-

ticed, because if you sounded like someone else,

you were really promoting their endeavors.

That’s the problem that Sonny Stitt had. He

sounded like Charlie Parker and he suffered

emotionally and physically.

JI: I asked trombonist Steve Swell to comment

on your contribution to jazz and he said, “I

would say he was one of the first to move into

multiple territories of improvisation, trombone

or otherwise. He was a bopper, then a free bop-

per, then got into fusion, then improvising with-

out chords. I think a lot of folks did that along

the way, but he seemed always to be exploring

new territories. Julian is the first trombonist I

know of to really go out of the first things he

was known for, the things that got him famous.”

JP: That follows my thoughts. My ambition

was to not be still, I wanted to evolve. It was

important to keep pushing forward and looking

for musical ideas. I felt that as great as bebop

was, and as inspirational as it was in my devel-

opment, that I should be looking ahead. I think

that my exposure to Sun Ra very early in my

development was important. His habit was to

force his performers to be creative, and he would

do that by not giving specific instructions. He

would just point to the player to take a solo.

There were no chord changes, we just had to use

our ears to recognize and convert sounds into

what we knew would work musically. I learned

not to panic when something musically un-

planned came.

JI: How do you handle musical mistakes?

JP: There are no mistakes, it’s how you react to

what was unintentional. If you flinch, then that’s


Julian Priester Here I Am

INTERVIEWINTERVIEW

“You had to have a unique voice to really be recognized and noticed, because if you sounded like someone else, you

were really promoting their endeavors. That’s the problem that Sonny Stitt had. He sounded like Charlie Parker and he suffered emotionally and physically.”


a mistake. Let the accident influence what your

next idea is. I got into a head space where if an

accident occurred, I would resolve it by repeat-

ing that accident, so that it was no longer an

accident now. I accepted that mistake and made

it part of the structure of the musical idea, and

that works. Don’t let the audience know that you

didn’t intend to play what you just played. Play

it again, and that eliminates the mistake. I’ve

always been adamant about staying on the front

edge of creativity. When I recognize myself

repeating ideas over and over again, it really

bothers me. I strive to be fresh of ideas. I’m not

successful all of the time, because it’s all sponta-

neous and sometimes you just arrive at a certain

point that you’ve been there before. My philoso-

phy has been to go with it.

JI: What are you still working at to improve on,

if anything?

JP: I play by ear. With all the knowledge that I

have, I found it more creative to listen to the

sound of the group and not think about the chord

changes. I’m identifying the sound and playing

within that sound. I know what the chords are by

hearing them, so it’s a more instinctual approach

rather than an academic one. That’s mostly what

I’m doing now in terms of garnering the infor-

mation that I use to create solos. I’m also think-

ing about form and getting away from what’s

become normal. I want to be fresh and in the

moment. So I’m getting away from what I’ve

studied and practiced when I create solos. When

I play a solo, it’s spontaneous. I use the term

spontaneous composition which comes closest to

the method that I use. Of course, I’m following

the musical rules of harmony, rhythms and mel-

ody.

JI: You’ve lived on the West Coast for the past

45 years, the great majority of that time in Seat-

tle. How is it to spend most of your career se-

cluded away from jazz’ East Coast epicenter,

especially after being super involved in the sce-

ne during the start of your career?

JP: Ahh, that’s a great question. I have had

many problems trying to live the two lives – the

domestic life and the jazz life. They’re incom-

patible, as long as I’ve been playing. I’m on my

third marriage now and the failure of the first

two marriages were closely connected to the

inability of me to be the domestic provider as a

jazz musician, and the desire to be a jazz artist.

After many years in my career, I realized I was

more satisfied in being a jazz artist rather than a

jazz musician, seeking work in the bands of

others. I wanted to be brilliant as a trombonist,

unique as a trombonist, and that would qualify

me as a jazz artist. I’m still capable but, by

choice, I’m not seeking work in the commercial

music field. I’m seeking work in the creative

music field and that’s impacted my life. Here in

Seattle, there’s not much going on for the crea-

tive music artists.

JI: Are you saying that you moved out to the

West Coast in order to survive or to save one of

your marriages?

JP: No, I wasn’t married at the time. Staying on

the West Coast was purely accidental. It oc-

curred when Herbie Hancock broke up the

Mwandishi band in San Francisco. I got married,

for the third time, and when my first son was

born, the incident of the [1978] assassination of

the mayor of San Francisco [George Moscone]

influenced my decision to leave there. I had an

invitation to be on the faculty of Cornish Col-

lege in Seattle, so I accepted that and since then,

I’ve raised my family there. I’ve lived there for

forty years, although Seattle is not fulfilling my

musical ambitions. There are taverns here but I

don’t expose myself to working in taverns. I

learned from Max Roach that people don’t listen

to music in taverns, and the music that I create is

music to listen to. I prefer to work on the concert

stage where the audience specifically comes to

listen, and there’s not a whole lot of that going

on in Seattle. I’ve thought about going back to

New York, oh God, but I’m older now. I’m not

as physically apt to pay the dues. I’m not willing

to suffer like I was when I was younger. I’m 83-

years-old now and life has changed, the old grey

stallion is not what he used to be. [Laughs] I’ve

remained here but I’m not completely satisfied.

I’d love to be able to go out on tour but it’s more

expensive for a promoter to bring me to Europe

to perform than it would be from the East Coast.

JI: Your first instrument was piano but after

being forced to play glockenspiel in the high

school orchestra during parades you changed

instruments.

JP: Right, I came across the trombone almost

by accident, I guess it was fate. My first expo-

sure to music was through piano. My mother

was an accomplished church pianist and I used

to sit at her side, looking over her shoulder. I

was the youngest sibling of six in the family and

one of my brothers was a jazz fan and he ex-

posed me to that music, and I was impressed

with him and his friends in the way that they

reacted to the music. This was back in the ‘50s

so it was vinyl and they would take the needle

and put it back to the passage that they loved,

over and over, and that impressed me. That im-

pressed me. Also, the names of the artists stood

out – Bird, Diz, Monk, Hawk, Newk, and Miles.

Those names, for me—I was young, a pre-

teen—those names were like fantasy names. I

was captured by that, the excitement that my

brother displayed and by the unusualness of

those names, and from that moment on, I wanted

to do that. When I got into high school, I wanted

to join the jazz band, but I was also required to

play in the orchestra, which also doubled in

playing as the marching band for the sports

teams and a yearly parade. For the marching

band, of course you couldn’t carry a piano

around, so they gave me a glockenspiel, which

wasn’t pleasing to my ear. I asked instead to

play a horn, such as a trumpet, but there was

already a line to play that, so my instructor gave

me a euphonium to play. It has the same finger-

ing system as a trumpet so the idea was that in

the future, I would be able to switch to trumpet

when a chair became available. But it so hap-

pened by coincidence, the mouthpiece for the

euphonium was the exact same as the one used

for the trombone. I wanted to join the jazz band

at school but there was no precedent, at that

time, for a euphonium in jazz, but there was a

precedent for trombone in jazz, so the trombone

came into my life, and it became my livelihood.

I wasn’t aware at the time that the trombone

wasn’t the premiere jazz instrument, perhaps I

would have made a different choice had I

known.

JI: You had to learn to stand up for yourself in

order to be heard.

JP: Yes, as a result of me choosing the trom-

bone, I had to be aggressive on stage. I would go

to various jam sessions in Chicago and there was

competition to get to the microphone. The saxo-

phone players could play for a long time because

there were no endurance issues that there were

for the trumpet and trombone players. It became

my habit to get to the microphone before the


Julian Priester

“There are no mistakes, it’s how you react to what was uninten-tional. If you flinch, then that’s a mistake. Let the accident in-

fluence what your next idea is.”


saxophone players did and that aggressive ap-

proach turned into a plus, an asset, in terms of

my attitude, my image, and the impact that I had

on the audience. It gave the message that I was

‘special,’ to the audience, and I guess I carried

that attitude with me throughout my whole ca-

reer, especially if there was a saxophone player

in the band. [Laughs] That competitive spirit

was alive and well and influenced my musical

character on stage. I’m blessed as a result of

having that experience and assuming that pos-

ture.

JI: The famous ‘Captain’ Walter Henri Dyett

was the musical director at DuSable High

School, where you trained. There are numerous

colorful stories about his tough love schooling.

What can you share about your time with him?

JP: I have to mention Norman Vincent Peale,

whose philosophy Captain Dyett mentioned to

his students to make us aware of the power of

positive thinking. He did that to shape our

minds. He outlawed the word can’t. if you used

that word, you were punished, maybe even

kicked out of class. He insisted on discipline and

honesty, and those ideas I’ve kept close to me

even to this day, and I credit that attitude to ex-

plain the success that I’ve garnered in my career.

I came into the school band with some musical

knowledge – I could already read music and had

studied the piano. I was a little ahead of most of

the students in the class and Captain Dyett rec-

ognized that I had a little attitude. He once asked

me to play a passage from one of the concert

pieces. I was still playing the euphonium and the

baritone horn at that point, and he asked me to

play this gorgeous euphonium solo. He came

and stood behind me and rested his hand on my

shoulder, which had the effect of destroying my

confidence and impairing my ability to play that

particular solo, although I had already played it

many times before. What he was doing with his

hand on my shoulder, he was gradually tighten-

ing his grip, and you can imagine the effect that

that had on me. He tightened his grip, which

made it personal. It was somewhat painful, and I

could not ignore it. He was doing that to knock

me off my perch, my attitude that I was better

than most of the other students. That was a les-

son for me, it brought me back down to earth. I

continued to study and advance my ability, but

my attitude now was more humble, and because

of that, I was able to understand that I still had a

lot to learn

JI: Charles Davis recruited you into Sun Ra’s

band [1952-3] when you were 17 and still in

high school. At the time, Sun Ra was having

difficulty attracting musicians because they felt

his music and arrangements were strange, his

rehearsals were 7 days a week, 8 hours long, and

filled with lectures. What attracted you to him?

JP: My love of music. I would play whether

there was money involved or not. If there was an

opportunity to play some music, I was there. I

had a good relationship with Sun Ra, but what

changed everything at seventeen was that I got

married and that became an influential element

in my life. I had to become more serious about

making money. With Sun Ra, we played every

day, rehearsing for little or no money, and as a

married person I found that particular situation

undoable. It came to a head after we had an en-

gagement that lasted for eleven weeks, and eve-

ry week the money would be short, and at the

end of the eleven weeks, I calculated that I had

been paid for seven of those weeks. That con-

vinced me that I should leave Sun Ra and find

work to support my family. We were suffering. I

attempted to find a real job, [Laughs] and that

didn’t work out because I felt that I was being

taken advantage of. I was working in this mail

order house with the promise that after a certain

amount of time I’d be getting a raise, and when

that time expired, instead of getting a raise, they

transferred me to another department which

required another seven weeks before I would be

eligible for a raise. I left that job because if I was

to suffer, I was going to suffer as a musician. So

I left Sun Ra, and Richard Evans, a fellow stu-

dent at DuSable who was working as a bassist

for Lionel Hampton’s band, recommended me

when the trombone chair became available, and

that’s how I joined that band.

JI: How were things with Lionel Hampton?

JP: The money situation was strange there too,

although I did get paid every time I worked, but

only when I worked. I didn’t make a weekly

salary, or anything like that. I got paid a paltry

rate because I was one of the youngest members

of the band. Lionel Hampton took advantage of

me. I was inexperienced yet qualified to do the

job and he felt that he did not have to pay me the

same amount that he paid the more experienced,

older musicians. I stuck with him because I

loved to play but when the opportunity came to

leave the band, I took advantage of it. The end

came when his band had a tour of Australia,

along with the Stan Kenton Orchestra, and what

the promoters decided to do was to take half of

each of the orchestras and have the leaders take

their turn with the band. So, as a young member,

it was decided that I would not make that tour. I

was to stay in New York City and wait for them

to return. I still had a wife and two kids in Chi-

cago that I had to send money to. Here I was in

New York, without a salary, told that if I was

still there when the band came back from Aus-

tralia, I had a job waiting for me. I still had to

pay rent, which eliminated my ability to send

money back to Chicago, so l left Lionel Hamp-

ton’s band for that reason. Fortunately, one of

the saxophone players in Lionel Hampton’s

band, Eddie Chamblee, had just married Dinah

Washington and he was interested in putting

together a small group to tour with her. He asked

me if I was interested, and since I was stranded

in New York, I had no choice but to say yes. I

was desperate. So, I went on the road with Dinah

Washington and a weekly salary that rescued me

from poverty. Dinah lived in New York, so I put

a lot of time there, and a year later, I made the

official move from Chicago to New York City

by bringing my family there. It worked out

great. I was accepted as an available trombonist

and I was getting work. I’m proud of having the

rare distinction of performing with four major

drummers at that time – Philly Joe Jones, Max

Roach, Elvin Jones and Art Blakey. I feel unique

in that regard, to have worked with all of those

giant “Artists.”

JI: What was the demand for trombonists at the

time you moved to New York in 1958-’59?

JP: There was work commercially for trombon-

ists. I hired myself out to the Yonkers Pops Or-

chestra, as a requirement actually, to be eligible

to play for the Broadway shows. You had to

have had some orchestra experience to be hired

so I used that to qualify me. I did that for several

years until I had good opportunities to play jazz.

I got a leave of absence from the theater to go to

Europe with the Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Orches-

tra and then a couple months later, I got a call

from the bassist in the Duke Ellington Orchestra.

Apparently, the trombone player hadn’t shown


“I learned from Max Roach that people don’t listen to music in taverns, and

the music that I create is music to listen to. I prefer to work on the concert stage where the audience specifically comes to listen, and there’s not a whole lot of

that going on in Seattle.”

Julian Priester


up for this recording session, so I showed up to

the recording studio and made a recording on

one piece with Duke Ellington Orchestra. That

put me in the position to be thought about when

the trombone chair became available in that

band. When it opened up, I applied for a leave

from the pit orchestra at the Shubert Theatre to

go on the road for a State Department tour to the

Asia, but would you believe that I was not grant-

ed to take another leave since I had taken a leave

earlier? So, I quit and that ended my commercial

career in New York City. I guess I was put on

the do not hire list because I didn’t receive any-

more calls to appear with the theater, but I was

happy with that because my heart was in per-

forming jazz music as a creative artist.

JI: Did Duke Ellington influence you an artist?

JP: I think Duke Ellington helped me adopt my

future attitude. We were leaving the army base

in Laos, flying to Thailand, on an army airplane

with its hard-wooden benches lining the sides of

the plane. It was uncomfortable. After we land-

ed, walking across the tarmac, I happened to

have a conversation with Duke about an upcom-

ing recording project that I thought was just

going to be a rehearsal. I told him that I was fine

with the session being for his personal use but, if

it was going to be released, I would like to be

paid for it because nothing had been discussed.

Duke’s reply was classic. He said, “Well, what

do you want, Julian? After all, you’re just a

trombone player.” Hello! [Laughs] That

knocked me off my feet. That changed my

whole attitude about myself and the direction I

should be going in. I had to be more than just a

trombone player, and from then on, that became

my goal. I wanted to be an innovator, so I

changed my attitude towards music. I strove to

be an artist and incorporated a whole different

attitude. I stopped playing for the love of playing

and started to play for the satisfaction of creating

something that’s unique. I sought change, devel-

opment. I became more of a risk taker, musical-

ly. I wanted to be a contributor to the advance-

ment of the art of playing creative music. I was

already comfortable with various styles of mu-

sic. I was fascinated by Dixieland and the role

that trombone played in that music, how it stood

out. I was also into free music because it re-

minded me of the work that I was doing with

Sun Ra in terms of the attitude. Sun Ra never

gave us charts, he gave us spoken ideas.

JI: Johnny Griffin introduced you to Orrin

Keepnews (V.P. of Riverside Records at the

time) who gave you a job in the label’s shipping

department. You worked there with Philly Joe

Jones, Chet Baker, and Kenny Dorham. Talk

about that experience.

JP: [Laughs] Oh, boy, that enabled me to pay

my rent. Orrin Keepnews was a gem. He helped

introduce me to the musical community and

gave me the opportunity to record. I credit him

with giving me my start. I was the youngest

working there and I was just in awe of Philly Joe

Jones, Chet Baker, and Kenny Dorham, espe-

cially Kenny Dorham, who was one of my he-

roes as a bebopper. My ego was blown in the

presence of those players, they were on another

level. I was young and clean, not exposed to the

other side of “the jazz life” that involves alcohol

and drugs, whereas everyone of those gentlemen

were. [Laughs] They were veterans. There was

one incident that occurred there that stands out.

Philly Joe Jones and Chet Baker were observed

on the corner of 125th and 7th Avenue, selling

Riverside records out of boxes taken from the

shipping department. [Laughs] I’m chuckling

because as serious as that incident is, because of

the nature of the individuals, they were brilliant

artists, they weren’t punished. The police were

not brought in on the theft, which is what it was.

They sold the albums in Harlem to get drugs.

That was the jazz life. A lot of the younger mu-

sicians, those of my age, felt that using drugs

was a requirement in order to play the brilliant

music that was being played by those older mu-

sician addicts whose music was beyond the ordi-

nary. The thought was to be as great as our he-

roes, that we had to use drugs. That was a deci-

sion that I had to always deal with, as far as how

I wanted to live my life. At weak moments, I

would dabble, but fortunately, due to my back-

ground and Walter Henri Dyett, I used self-

discipline to deny that lifestyle and save my life.

I look at my time [in that mailroom] as a lesson.

If I wanted to survive in this wild world, the jazz

world, then I had to really be disciplined.

JI: As you mentioned, Keepnews facilitated

your first recording as a leader – Keep Swing-

in’ [1961, Riverside], which included a remarka-

ble lineup - Jimmy Heath, Tommy Flanagan,

Sam Jones, and Elvin Jones. Did you pick the

musicians and tunes?

JP: That was Orrin’s decision. All those other

artists were on the Riverside label. They were

available and agreed to participate in this project

involving this young, inexperienced trombone

player, and as a result of Orrin being involved,

the album became a classic. I will always credit

those gentlemen on the recording for helping me

gain a lot of respect.

JI: Max Roach hired you in 1959 and at your

first gig with him in Pittsburgh he fought with

George Coleman on stage during the set. What

happened there?

JP: Apparently, there had been a history. Both

George Coleman and Booker Little, and to some

degree Art Davis, had had prior encounters with

Max Roach and it came to a head at this Pitts-

burgh engagement. It was my first time perform-

ing with Max. Of course, we were fired by the

club after the incident happened. The hotel that

we were staying in was owned by an African

American and he permitted Max to set up in the

dining room of the hotel and perform to earn

enough money to pay our transportation cost to

get back to New York. Max hired the Turrentine

brothers, Stanley and Tommy, to substitute for

George Coleman and Booker Little and they

agreed to stay with the band. They worked in the

band. Tommy was more of a bebopper whereas

Stanley was more of a blues/gospel influenced

player, and very acceptable to the audience.

JI: You made a number of memorable record-

ings with Roach including 1960’s We Insist!

Freedom Now Suite which was done during the

peak of the Civil Rights Movement. What was

the reaction from the audience to that music,

particularly the white audience?

JP: Back in New York, people supported Max

and his efforts to bring attention to the horrible

situation that African Americans were subject to,

as far as opportunities that were available to

them. It was time for change, and we were part

of the community there and they were part of us.

The listeners were educated and realized we

were all humans. It’s a mystery to me how peo-

ple, any people, can feel ownership of the world,

of our space. We all own this globe.

JI: The violent side of Max Roach is well docu-

mented, and you may have set the record for

being attacked three times by him. The first inci-


“I have to mention Norman Vincent Peale, whose philosophy Captain Dyett mentioned

to his students to make us aware of the power of positive thinking. He did that to shape our minds. He outlawed the word can’t. if you used that word, you were

punished, maybe even kicked out of class.”

Julian Priester


dent led to you exiting the band in 1962. What

happened?

JP: What set that off was Booker Little was

diagnosed with leukemia. He could not perform

because his hands were swollen and in pain. Ted

Curson was called in to substitute for Booker

Little in a Philadelphia engagement. Big mis-

take, they were two opposites. There was no

way that Ted Curson could fit into the shoes of

Booker Little, musically that is. The perfor-

mance was under par and it affected Max, who

was already mentally disturbed by the fact that

Booker was ill, dying. It duplicated the experi-

ence that Max had already had with Clifford

Brown. Losing another trumpet player was not

something that Max emotionally could handle.

Max got on the microphone and started berating

the music, talking to the audience about how sad

the music was. While he was doing this, I went

to the back of the stage, to where the piano had

been stored since we weren’t using it. It was not

lit there, and I lit a cigarette and leaned on the

piano, waiting for Max to finish his tirade. As I

waited for the music to start up again, Max left

the microphone and walked over to where I was

and slugged me in the face. Bam! Out of the

blue, unexpected, unanticipated, and for no rea-

son that I knew. I was stunned. [Laughs] My

reaction was to quit. I left the stage, packed my

horn up, and I was on my way back to New

York, but the club owner came to the dressing

room, saying he was sent by Max asking me not

to quit. It was a Sunday matinee and he wanted

to finish the engagement. So, me, as a nice guy,

accepted what was extended as an apology. But I

asked the club owner why Max wasn’t there

himself with the apology, so the owner left and

shortly thereafter, Max arrived, and he was so

pent-up that he was talking through his teeth.

His teeth were clenched, he was talking without

opening his mouth. I went back on stage and

during the middle of my solo, on the first song

we played, I didn’t hear any drums. My back

was turned to the drums and when I turned

around to see why I couldn’t hear the drums,

Max was actually climbing over the drums,

coming towards me, and the expression on his

face was rage. He came up to me and we tussled

at Pep’s Showbar in Philadelphia. The stage was

elevated inside of this oval-shaped bar. We

wrestled on stage, knocked the drums over,

which were on a higher riser, and they fell into

the bar area, knocking over a few bottles of

whiskey, and then Max and I actually rolled off

the stage. I think it was the bartender who was

the only one that threw any actual blows because

Max and I were tussling. [Laughs] Meanwhile,

the audience was applauding. They reacted as if

it was entertainment. Of course, we got fired and

went back to New York. About 3 o’clock in the

morning, I got a phone call from Max asking me

to accompany him to go see his psychiatrist,

which I agreed to do. It was then that I learned

that Max had a condition where when he drank

alcohol, his body did not process it, it built up in

his body. He had been drinking as a result of

Booker being ill, and he didn’t have control over

his emotions, and he attacked me as a tonic. He

was relieving himself of some of the angst. He

knew I wasn’t gonna’ hurt him. I learned at that

meeting that Max was attacking me for a forgiv-

able reason. I didn’t have any hard feelings and

we collaborated after that.

JI: The second Roach incident came shortly

after you rejoined him. This time you were at his

apartment celebrating Abbey Lincoln’s birthday.

JP: I brought my girlfriend with me and she

and I were in the kitchen talking. Max came into

the kitchen and attacked me. He grabbed me by

my shoulders and was just shaking me. I was

standing in front of these kitchen cabinets and

my head was bouncing off the cabinets. My

reaction was to stop him from shaking me and so

I struck him in the face and knocked out the cap

that was on one of his front teeth. He bled from

that on my suit and I startled a few people when

I got on the elevator with all this blood on my

clothes. It’s all water over the bridge. I’m not

angry, all of that’s forgiven. Max and I, we love

each other and nothing’s gonna’ change that. I

understand that he was mentally ill. I kind of

suspect that he resented the fact that I had

brought my girlfriend to his apartment. I don’t

know, I don’t have any proof of that. We never

spoke of that issue afterwards.

JI: Why would he resent that? Were you mar-

ried at the time?

JP: No, I was divorced, but we did later marry.

Max had certain ideas about male-female rela-

tionships that I was not privy to. Max had lived

in the jazz world and had been exposed to the

dark side of that. My girlfriend had had experi-

ences on that dark side, and I think Max became

aware of that and lost respect for me, which led

to that incident. He shook me in an effort to

“wake me up,” at least that’s how I’m interpret-

ing it. Again, we never fell out of our friendship

after that, although I did perform less often with

him due to having other opportunities.

JI: After Roach, you settled in as Blue Note

Records’ unofficial on-call studio trombone

musician, as well as working often with Atlantic

Records from 1965-67. How did you get that

opportunity?

JP: Because of my work with Max and my

work on Philly Joe Jones’ Blues for Dracula

recording, which impressed Max and was instru-

mental in Max taking me on in his band, other

jazz artists thought that including me on their

recordings would be beneficial to their project. I

have to mention Duke Pearson. He was like the

musical director for Blue Note Records, and he

had a large ensemble that I was also performing

in. When Blue Note was looking to use a trom-

bonist, I was the natural choice as a member of

the Duke Pearson Orchestra because I was right

there and available.

JI: Art Blakey hired you in 1968 but that also


“I happened to have a conversation with Duke about an upcoming recording project … if it was going to be re-leased, I would like to be paid for it … Duke’s reply was

classic. He said, ‘Well, what do you want, Julian? After all, you’re just a trombone player.’ Hello! [Laughs] That

knocked me off my feet. That changed my whole attitude about myself and the direction I should be going in.”

Julian Priester


ended in a bad experience, this time over money.

JP: Yes. Art respected me. I have to

acknowledge that, but he put me in an

[awkward] position where I had to defend the

band against his outside habit of taking the mon-

ey he was supposed to pay the band and using it

to buy drugs, so there was no money to pay the

band. The incident that broke the camel’s back

came after we had performed in Boston. After

the performance, Art instructed us to meet him

at the place I was staying once we got back to

New York to get our money. So, here’s the

band, waiting at my place for Art to come by

and pay us. We waited all night. The sun was

coming up and we were still waiting on Art. I

tried to call him, and he would not answer. His

wife answered and she just made excuses for

him. When the sun came up, I decided that I

wasn’t gonna’ wait any longer, I was just going

to go to Art’s house and get the band’s money.

So, we went to his house and banged on his

door. At first, he wouldn’t answer, so we contin-

ued to bang on his door. We could hear recorded

music playing inside. Because of the noise that

we were making, one of his neighbors opened

their door, saw these black guys banging on Art

Blakey’s door and yelled, “Call the police!” As

soon as he said that, Art opened the door. He

wanted to let me in and keep the rest of the guys

out, but I refused. I told him we were all here to

get our money and we’re all coming in, and we

did. It turned out that Art had already spent the

money so he said he would take us to his manag-

er and pay us. He had also injured himself out of

frustration because we were banging on his

door. He had kicked the door out of anger and

injured his big toe. He ended up going to the

hospital because he had injured it so bad. We got

our money but after that incident, I didn’t think

that that was a viable place for me to be so I left

the band and went back to my commercial work

as a musician for hire for recordings where my

name wasn’t even mentioned in the credits, as

well as working on Broadway until I got he call

to play with Duke Ellington.

JI: You’ve had numerous challenging situations

with prominent leaders who had to be heroes for

you before you joined them. There was Lionel

Hampton, Max Roach, Art Blakey, Duke Elling-

ton, and later Herbie Hancock. Negative things

happened under them. How do you make sense

of finding out that your heroes are not what you

expected them to be?

JP: Separate personalities from their art. I un-

derstand what motivated those leaders to act and

come to the decisions that they made to survive.

Lionel Hampton paid me $25 an engagement

because of his humongous payroll. I can’t fault

him for conducting his business the way he did

because he knew I was just happy to be playing.

I wouldn’t be happy anymore, I’m not that same

person. I got an education from working with

those leaders. I learned how to conduct my own

business by being tested by them. These are the

things that you don’t want to happen so how do I

avoid them happening again. It was a learning

experience. Later, as a bandleader, I was con-

fronted with the same situation. I had to pay

people who were taking a chance by exposing

themselves in situations where sometimes the

money was funny. I did my best to treat them

better than other bandleaders. It all comes down

to respect for the music. If you’re going to be a

jazz player, you have to have worked to a level

where you can afford to be a jazz player. You

have to be able to pay your bills, especially if

you have a family. The jazz life is not dependa-

ble for young, inexperienced people.

JI: Herbie Hancock hired you in 1970 for the

three-year run of his famous fusion sextet –

Mwandishi. What was your interest and impres-

sion of fusion at the time he hired you?

JP: I had already a mindset that I would not

avoid challenges. Originally, I’m a bebopper,

that’s where my heart lies from listening to

Charlie Parker. I’ve carried that music with me

for all these sixty-plus years as the foundation.

At the same time, growing up in Chicago, which

is really a blues hub, I was exposed to the blues

and had the opportunity to play in blues bands as

well as gospel church music. All that music still

goes around in my head. I feel there’s no bad

music. Fusion is for me an offspring of the

blues. I don’t like what the term rock n’ roll

brings to your mind, that speaks of entertain-

ment, and the music we strove for was to enrich

people.

JI: Hancock used a lot of post-production work

on the recordings. Did you always like what he

did to your sound?

JP: I accepted it because of my attitude that all

music is valid. I used to resent electronic music

because I thought it was demeaning to acoustic

music. I prefer to be doing acoustic music alt-

hough electronics add another instrument – the

use of synthesizer. You can’t really imitate the

sound of live instrument, it’s not real sounding

and sound is what drives response. Music is

special because not only will it attract your at-

tention, it stimulates your emotion.

JI: I have inside information that Hancock did-

n’t pay extravagantly well at the time. It was

$300 per week and you had to cover your own

meals and hotel rooms.

JP: That’s true, but I was happy to have the

opportunity to play that music regardless of the

circumstances. It reminds me of working with

Lionel Hampton. [Hampton’s] salary was not

weekly, it was $25 only on the days that the

band worked. Working with Herbie was a won-

derful experience for me. It was a learning expe-

rience and I was exposed to venues and audienc-

es that I never would have had the opportunity to

be exposed to if not for that association. One

experience leads to the next experience.

JI: How was it decided that all members of

Mwandishi would take a Swahili name and how

did you come to be Pepo [pay-po] Mtoto, as well

as “Spirit Child?”

JP: That came about from an association that

Herbie and Buster Williams had established with

Tootie Heath’s son, who influenced them to

adopt Swahili names in support of the spiritual

movement by African Americans to draw atten-

tion to the people who were suffering because of

the social environment they were living in. It

also attracted attention to the band, having these

names. It set the band up in a different category

of not just being jazz players, but jazz players

with unique properties. We were devoted to the

music and to each other, and we were projecting

a certain character. My name came about after

one of the first engagements we had, which was

up in Vancouver. In the hotel, we each had

cooking units. I invited the band for breakfast to

my apartment and cooked a whole breakfast.


“...we had the idea that we were gonna’ be a cooperative organization with everyone contrib-uting to the music, which we did … We thought that we could do this cooperative group, but it

didn’t work on the business side. We didn’t know that at the start … The main reason was

that on the contract there was only one individ-ual’s signature, and that was Herbie’s. The rest

of the band was just hired musicians …”

Julian Priester


They were impressed by that effort, they en-

joyed the meal, so they selected an African name

for me that translated into being “The Great

Cook.” Now that did not define me at all. So I

rejected that name, and when they inquired into

what I wanted to be called. The name “Spirit

Child” came to mind so they translated Spirit

Child into Swahili and they called me Pepo Mto-

to. So, I’ve lived with that name ever since, at

least amongst my family and close friends. I

think I’m somewhat of a spiritual person, per-

sonality-wise, coming from the experience of

coming up in the church.

JI: Mwandishi was special, that’s obvious when

hearing the ex-members of the band speaking

about it. When you performed in Philadelphia

recently you opened up on stage about the two

tragic losses in your life – the death of your

mother when you were nine, and the time Herbie

Hancock disbanded Mwandishi. Would you

address the breakup of the Mwandishi band?

JP: That was devastating because of the im-

portance of what we were doing. The members

of the band felt that we were innovators and that

we were on the path to be special. We presented

that to the audience through our music. Original-

ly, when I first joined the band, we had the idea

that we were gonna’ be a cooperative organiza-

tion with everyone contributing to the music,

which we did, idea-wise and material-wise. We

thought that we could do this cooperative group,

but it didn’t work on the business side. We did-

n’t know that at the start. We were just over-

joyed at being brothers in this musical adventure

but the management, David Rubenstein and his

organization, denied this. The main reason was

that on the contract there was only one individu-

al’s signature, and that was Herbie’s. The rest of

the band was just hired musicians to accompany

Herbie, which I don’t agree with that philoso-

phy. I personally avoid being regarded as a side-

man.

JI: Stanley Crouch in his book Considering

Genius described Mwandishi as, “one of the

great ones of the era and perhaps any. No one

had ever heard anything like it… Had it lasted, a

strong alternative to what became known as

fusion would have been out there to inspire oth-

ers to hold on.”

JP: Yes, I support that thought. One of the rea-

sons that I was in love with that band, all of us

were striving to reach forward, trying to increase

our musical output, not just the sound of the

music, but understanding the importance that

music has, its impact on the human psychic, and

recognizing that, it puts music in a different

category. It’s more than entertainment, it’s more

than just background entertainment. My goal has

been for the music to reach that level. Hallelu-

iah, [Laughs] to borrow a term from the church.

[Laughs]

JI: After Mwandishi you made your own clas-

sic fusion album Love, Love [1974, ECM] before

returning to your acoustic music roots. What

was your attraction to making fusion records as

a leader? Did that music resonate with you or

was that for financial reasons?

JP: No, it was the music. It wasn’t financial at

all. It was an extension of the music that I was

involved with when I was working with Herbie.

Pat Patrick was very instrumental in providing

the electronics with the Herbie organization, and

the idea to do the Love, Love album was actually

a combination of Pat and my own ambition to

extend the music that we were making with

Herbie. I saw the impact that the Mwandishi

band had on listeners and we wanted to continue

that. Of course, with me being a trombonist, my

having access to the sophistication of electronic

music was limited, so I wasn’t able to continue

along that path. Not that I would have accepted

doing only that. I don’t think that would be very

wise, to have only one style. I don’t subscribe to

that. I would not hesitate to perform rock n’ roll,

or blues, or soul music, or even Dixieland if the

opportunity presents itself.

JI: The bulk of your latter career was spent

teaching at Seattle’s Cornish College of the Arts

[1979-2011] which you take great pride in. Were

you surprised that you enjoyed teaching so much

and what aspect of it did you enjoy the most?

JP: I enjoyed the music element of it. I was

brought there to teach improvisation, the ele-

ments of music, and to develop the skills and

attitude that are necessary to develop a devotion

to music that will inspire one to not be affected

by the perils that accompany the life of a jazz

musician, the incompatibility of the jazz life

with domestic life. I knew very many potential

jazz players who would still be valid if it hadn’t

been for the pressure put on them to provide

food and shelter. The jazz life is not dependable.

There are choices to be made in order to follow

the musical path. You really have to ignore other

aspects of social life in order to be successful as

a musical artist. It demands too much time and

commitment.

JI: That’s quite harsh criticism.

JP: I’m really saddened at the incompatibility

of the jazz life and domestic life. I’m on my

third marriage and failure of the first two were

directly influenced by schisms between support-

ing a family and performing. It’s sad and I’m

suffering emotionally as a result of that. I can’t

even devote myself to either of them, one is

taking away from the other, and I want to be a

full participant in both. I don’t like being bitter. I

still want to hold onto the philosophy that Wal-

ter Henri Dyett instilled in me that positive

thinking will pay off. Don’t use the word can’t.

Don’t use it, don’t think it. You can, always.

JI: How do you relay this information about the

jazz life to students without crushing their

dreams?

JP: Yes, I do talk about this, I emphasize it. I

stress innovation and using what’s right there in

front of you. Recognize the element that can be

incorporated into the music you create. I make

them aware of the music that’s in the air all

around us. Motion creates sound. Everything is

evolving, and that in itself is gonna’ create

sound. It’s gonna’ move air and create sound,

especially when it comes in contact with objects.

I teach to open your ears and identify what you

are listening to.

JI: How active were you as a performing artist

during your teaching career in Seattle?

JP: There was a lot of music when I got to Cor-

nish and I wasn’t just teaching while I’ve lived

here. I remained very active. I went on the road

with Charlie Haden, as well as the Timeless All-

Stars. I went to Europe with George Gruntz and

toured with Lester Bowie. I was also in a group

called Quartett with Jay Clayton, Jerry Granelli,

and Gary Peacock, who were all also faculty

members of the college. I also did a lot of work

with Hadley Caliman, who was living up here,

as well as recording on Diane Schuur’s first

record. My most recent group, Priester’s Cue,

was made up of Cornish graduates – pianist

Dawn Clement, drummer Byron Vannoy and

Geoff Harper on bass. An album was already

released featuring that band and we also record-

ed a beautiful album at Van Gelder Studio which

I am looking to release now.

JI: Unfortunately, you’ve dealt with some very

significant health-related issues during your

latter years. You survived two organ transplants

– a liver transplant in 2000, as well as a kidney

transplant a few years later, as a result from tak-

ing the anti-rejection medication needed for the

liver transplant. If that wasn’t enough, you lost

your home when you were unable to work with

your ailments.

JP: Not only that, there were age issues. Cor-

nish College decided they wanted a younger

faculty and they invited me to retire which, be-

cause of my health issues, I accepted their invi-

tation because my health was impacting on the

students. But, along with that, the college did not

offer a pension to its faculty, so upon retirement,

I was out of an income. I wasn’t performing

much either because I had been off the scene in

academia, so people were not thinking to use me

as a trombone player. I’m not working now as a

jazz artist, so economically I’m not footing the

bill here. It’s not working. I could go out and be

a trombone player for hire any day but that’s not

where my heart lies. At my age, I feel I deserve

to be who I want to be and it’s a struggle. I’m

still picking up the trombone, making music.

JI: I hope this interview and the others to fol-

low get the word out that you are back as a jazz


Julian Priester


artist. You recently toured with pianist David

Haney and the music played was totally impro-

vised. Is that how you’re playing these days?

What type of music attracts you now?

JP: On occasion, I will play with David [in a

totally free setting]. It’s something that I’m used

to doing since the days of Sun Ra. I enjoy doing

creative music like this, working with a sensitive

artist who also listens and accompanies without

letting their ego influence their musical ideas. I

like people who can join in as a musical unit so

that we are all playing the same music at the

same time. The object is to pair up ideas.

JI: What are your interests outside of music?

JP: I like good food. I like TV but I find it con-

fining, you’ve got to sit there and watch it. I

came up with the radio and you didn’t have to sit

there with the radio. You could move around

and still absorb it. I like educational documen-

taries on TV, but I don’t like the normal televi-

sion fare. I don’t find it appealing only because

of the use of time that I could be using for more

rewarding projects. I could be writing music,

reading books, gaining knowledge, just being

aware of what’s around me. I listen to NPR and

MSNBC, which is one of my favorites.

JI: The final questions have been given to me

from other musicians to ask you:

Robin Eubanks (trombone) asked: “I was hon-

ored to follow you as the trombonist in Dave

Holland’s band. What do you feel are the ad-

vantages or disadvantages about playing in a

band, such as David’s, with no chordal instru-

ments [piano, guitar, vibes]?”

JP: First of all, I was used to that with my rela-

tionship with Max Roach. He wasn’t using a

keyboard, so it wasn’t an oddity. I really enjoyed

creating music with Dave because his musical

taste was on the cutting edge of pushing music

forward. He wasn’t about regurgitating some-

thing that had already been alive.

Famoudou Don Moye (percussion) asked: “My

memories of performing with you are numerous

and always a source of pride and respect. My

question is how you felt about the fun, excite-

ment and challenges of playing with Lester

Bowie’s Brass Fantasy and touring with Lester

Bowie’s N.Y. Organ Ensemble. I know that we

had some great moments!”

JP: Yeah, we did. Another similar situation

where the music was on the cutting edge, it was

out front, it wasn’t trying to impress anyone. It

was telling the truth about life, about music. It

was harsh in parts, and that’s part of life, it’s all

valid, and the individuals in the band were all of

the same mind, attitude and approach to the mu-

sic that was being created. We weren’t tied

down to musical tradition. Again, it was like Sun

Ra’s music. The band was out of Chicago and

came out of the same environment. They were-

n’t looking to regurgitate music and there was a

social message in the music. There was a cour-

age needed just to participate in introducing

music of that style. It was amazing and that mu-

sic was important as a mirror of society.

Curtis Fowlkes (trombone) said: “I remember

seeing Monk at BAM on a double bill with Art

Blakey. You were in the front line of Blakey’s

band, along with tenor player Billy Harper and

trumpeter Bill Hardman. I wonder if you re-

member that night because Monk ended his set

by walking offstage and not returning, and peo-

ple were booing to the point where Blakey came

out and scolded the audience. I was in a group of

young teenagers who were sponsored by the

community organization with tickets to attend

the performance and we weren’t understanding

of the mental issues that plagued Monk.”

JP: I remember that. He was a character. Take a

close look and examine Thelonious Monk, his

character. He was not a person who felt that it

was necessary to suck up to the audience. He,

like Miles Davis, felt that the music that he was

producing was important and valuable, and

that’s enough. If he wanted to get off the piano

and walk around, it was his prerogative. That

was his character, and I think because of that, he

qualified to be on the cover of Time Magazine.

If that’s not respect, what is? [Laughs] I love

him for his uniqueness.

Samuel Blaser (trombone) asked: “Here’s a

question that’s been with me for some time.

ECM Records doesn’t seem to have many trom-

bone players as a leader in its catalogue. You

may be the only one, along with Yves Robert.

You recorded two wonderful albums - Love,

Love and Polarization for the label. Is there any

specific reason why you didn’t record more mu-

sic for Manfred Eicher? I wonder if Eicher really

likes the trombone.”

JP: I don’t think it was that simple. I think it

was due to the implementation of Manfred’s

association with the label. He regarded the label

as his instrument and the product of that label

was his creation. He insisted upon control of

personnel. For instance, on the Polarization

album, he didn’t approve of my drummer. He

wanted to cancel the recording session, resched-

ule, and bring Billy Hart over from New York to

play drums. I felt that that was a little bit over

stepping his position, although I understand that

he was the owner of the company. What capped

off the relationship between me and Manfred

happened as a result of another incident. I was in

Europe performing with George Gruntz’ band

recording for ECM and I realized that I was

being treated as a sideman in Gruntz’ band. I

wasn’t being given the opportunity to solo and

that went against my whole personality. So, I

mentioned it to Manfred. I told him that I wasn’t

very happy with what was going on. He resented

me approaching him in that way so that created a

schism in our relationship. I know that was years

ago and I should not be harboring any ill feel-

ings towards Manfred because of that incident,

but it did create a sour note in my attitude to-

wards Manfred and I never approached him

again to do any recordings for his label.

Richard Davis (bass) [also a Captain Dyett

student] asked: “Would you talk about your

experience with Clifford Jordan?”

JP: Oh, good question. Clifford, a fellow DuSa-

blelite. We became dear friends in Chicago,

musically and personally, and Clifford was in-

spirational. I mentioned earlier that I drew my

inspiration from saxophone players and Clifford

was one of the saxophonists who influenced my

musical output. I remained friends with Clifford

after I moved to New York. He was living there.

We collaborated on musical projects and record-

ings. As a matter of fact, the apartment that I

was living in during the Art Blakey era was orig-

inally Clifford’s apartment. He had moved in

with his wife and so that apartment became

available and he let me take it over. Clifford was

a hustler, I mean he knew how to get work. He

was preaching to me how to approach the venue

owner and ask him how much he would charge

me to perform in his place. Now that’s odd, so

odd that the more I thought about it, the more

sense it made. How much to rent the place and

all the funds that came through the door would

be mine after I paid the owner a commission. It

did make business sense, but it was an approach

that was so different from anything that I had

ever been exposed to, it wowed me. I didn’t

know how to deal with it. Of course, I never

tried to implement it, I didn’t have the where-

withal to do it. I admired Clifford for his mind,

musically and streetwise. I saw it as a benefit for

me to adopt his street knowledge when dealing

with business, but I just didn’t have the courage.

[Laughs]

Steve Swell (trombone) asked: “It was phenom-

enal playing and hanging with you recently. On

[Max Roach’s] Freedom Now Suite you take a

terrific solo on “Freedom Day.” How many

takes were needed for that tune and how many in

general for the session?”

JP: Oh my God, I don’t remember. That’s too

long ago but I would think it all went down in

one take. In fact, I do recall Max was not in-

volved in overdubbing or multi-recording. His

attitude when he was performing was so disci-

plined that everything worked on the first time

through, and I believe that’s what happened on

that album. As far as my solo, I remember the

terror of having been put in this position where I

had to play those fast tempo [songs]. The trom-

bone, on a fast tempo, is terrorizing, particularly

as fast as Max Roach plays, [Laughs] but you

find a way to survive.


Julian Priester


Steve Swell also asked: “What are your spiritu-

al practices? Meditation or a formal practice?”

JP: It’s difficulty for me to put it into a catego-

ry but I think meditation perhaps would be rela-

tive to my practice. I dropped out from going to

church after my mother passed away. My expe-

rience at the funeral was devastating for me. I

lost it, I lost it, and I’m still suffering from that.

Uhm, even talking about it makes me uncom-

fortable. I’m still under the influence of Captain

Dyett, and you can put that in the category of a

spiritual practice. I’m spiritually devoted to be-

ing positive and denying negative responses to

the events of daily life. That’s my practice, and

so far, I’m satisfied. I’m still alive. I’ve made it

past the 83rd revolution around the Sun. What

more can I ask for?

Steve Davis (trombone) said: “You are a true

master who’s worked as a sideman on so many

recordings. A few of my favorites being McCoy

Tyner’s Tender Moments, Freddie Hubbard’s

Hub Cap, your work with Max Roach, as well as

Herbie Hancock’s Mwandishi! I love your

1960 Keep Swingin’ recording. With that said,

my question is having played with such an array

of masters over many decades, how have you

approached delivering the language of jazz mu-

sic through the trombone?”

JP: My love for music made it so that at the

drop of a hat, I will play, and I’ve carried that

attitude with me all these years. I was also influ-

enced by Max Roach in terms of commanding

dignity for the music. I believe that I hit the nail

on the head when I said I really didn’t need an

excuse [to play]. I wasn’t doing it for the money,

so anytime there was an opportunity to play

some music, I was there. That was my attitude

when I was doing all that recording with all

those people that I loved. It was all the same to

me. After my conversation with Duke Ellington

when he was accusing me of being just a trom-

bone player, I started thinking that I should be

emphasizing the artistic element, and that’s what

I did.

Joseph Bowie (trombone) asked: “I admire your

tasteful and modern approach to improvis-

ing. Do you use chord patterns/scales to fashion

your solos or do you create your own original

phrases?”

JP: I would think it’s a mixture of both. In

learning music, I went through the path of learn-

ing the relationship of chordal movement and

how it impacts the flavor of the music. For in-

stance, if you compare the music of Thelonious

Monk to the music of Horace Silver, both are

brilliant, but radically different from each other.

Chords are integral to producing music. Without

chords you can make sounds that can be musical

sounds but without the organization that is af-

forded with using chords, the music will not

sound familiar and that’s important if you want

listeners to relate to it. If they can’t relate to it, it

falls into another category such as noise.

JI: So what is your connection to free music?

JP: I rejected free music because I recognized

that it was not organized, and without organiza-

tion how can you identify it? The term free mu-

sic is a valid term, but it describes something

that is separate from its relationship to history

and the human experience. Music is a mirror

image of life, and there are rough aspects of life,

and perhaps free music does speak to that aspect,

but it’s not something that pleases me as a listen-

er. I enjoy creating, but even in that free envi-

ronment, I want it to be musical. You have to

use harmony and follow the melodic pattern,

both are key elements in the manufacture of

pleasant sounds. Free music is music, but I can’t

connect emotionally to that. It doesn’t allow for

intimacy.

Eddie Henderson (trumpet) said: “I have quite

a few memories of you and I together. Do you

remember the time you and I were riding across

the country with the Mwandishi group? Every-

body had separate cars, and at that time I had a

Ferrari. You were in the car with me and in the

middle of Utah or Wyoming I let you take over

driving. You didn’t know what kind of car it

was, you had thought it was just a little cheap

sports car. We switched seats and after about an

hour, you looked down and you’re cruising at

120 miles per hour, and you looked at me and

said, ‘What kind of car is this?’ [Laughs] That

was a rare moment. What memories do you have

of being together with me?”

JP: My buddy, oh boy. Very pleasant memories

of all the members of that group. We all became

very close, but Eddie was special – musically

and personally. He played the trumpet and was

fulfilling his training as a doctor when I first met

him, and we convinced him to stay with band

which meant that he had to drop out of his train-

ing. His first inspiration was music and he

gained a lot of respect for making that decision

to stay in the music life for as long as he has, as

well as staying in the medical field as a psychia-

trist.

JI: Do you have a memory to share about Eddie

Henderson?

JP: Well, I’ve got other memories but I’m not

gonna’ publicize them! [Laughs] Ask Eddie

about it! Yeah, anyway, I love him. He’s great.

Jerry Granelli (drums) said: “We spent so

many great hours talking about life, music, and

all of it. I’ll never forget our conversation once

after a concert in Vancouver with Jay Clayton. I

said, ‘You sounded great Priester,’ and you said,

“Thanks, but I heard all that before. I’m really

interested in what I haven’t played yet.” That

was not said with any sense of false humility,

that’s you.”

JP: I can feel myself saying that. That fits right

in with the mindset that I’ve had. Those two

were also on the faculty of Cornish College of

the Arts when I joined there. We had many op-

portunities to make music and share ideas.

Bennie Maupin (sax) said: “I simply can’t think

of one question. You’re one of the few innova-

tive giants of your generation that is still on this

planet. My mystical brother, friend, and truly a

musical mentor. Unsurpassed. What I can say is

this - I’m eternally grateful for having spent a

brief moment, live together with you, creating

some of the most unique and beautiful music of

my life. Words cannot express my gratitude and

appreciation for the great Julian Priester. Thanks

for the opportunity to sing my praises for the

great musical spirit, AKA Pepo Mtoto.”

JP: Bennie is unique as a player, creator and

artist. He is impressive personally. Our relation-

ship is so intimate that we had both good times

and bad times. Sometimes we were angry with

each other, sometimes we were in love and

demonstrated that love. It all turned out to be

good – our relationship and the music we pro-

duced. I appreciate his comments and I believe

that he is honest in his feelings for me, as I am

with my feelings for him. You know, it pains

me, it all stems from the Mwandishi band break-

ing up. It was a painful experience, and to this

day, forty-years later, the pain is still there. I

imagine Bennie also feels the same way.

[Addendum added by Julian Priester’s wife-

Nashira Priester]: The most hilarious thing we

talked about when we read the interview was

over the years I had the chance to ask a friend

who was from Zimbabwe and I asked him and

some other Zimbabweans, as well as looking it

up on the computer, and, well, Pepo Mtoto does

not mean “Spirit Child,” it means “Ghost Baby,”

or “Demon Baby!” It’s so amusing but we can’t

fix it now, it’s too late in life to be going away

from “Spirit Child.” Our son has made a thesis

film when he graduated from school with an art

degree called Spirit Child.


Julian Priester

“Do not wait. The time will never be ‘just right’. Start

where you stand, and work with whatever tools you may have at your

command, and better tools will be found as you go along.”

- Napoleon Hill


By Eric Nemeyer

JI: Could you discuss your recent recording

release and how it developed?

DF: I met Toninho (Horta) more than forty

years ago and I can say that without exception

I love all his compositions. I believe that

Toninho deserves much broader recognition

worldwide. In 2000 I had the pleasure to meet

David Feldman when he was studying at the

New School for Jazz and Contemporary Mu-

sic in New York. We started playing together

right away and the chemistry between us was

there from the first hit. David was playing in

my quintet at the time, and I played on his

first trio album, with the fabulous Hans Glaw-

ischnig on bass. A few years later David

moved back to Rio, where he still lives with

his family. In a recent visit to Rio, I got a call

from Paulo Levi, a wonderful sax player from

northeast Brazil, to play on his album. When I

got to the studio, David Feldman was the pia-

nist, and the bass player was a young gentle-

man from the south of Brazil, Guto Wirtti. We

started the session and I said to myself,

“Wow! This rhythm session sounds so right!

It feels like a walk on Ipanema Beach.” I

came back to New York, and started to think

that I really wanted to do a trio project with

these two fabulous young musicians. At the

time I was playing quite a bit with Toninho

around Europe and in New York, with a pro-

ject of mine called “Samba Jazz and the Mu-

sic of Jobim.” Then the idea clicked in my

head: “I am going to do a Trio album playing

the music of Toninho Horta.” That same year

I went back to Rio and we recorded the al-

bum. The recording process was a fantastic

experience and I could not be happier with the

results.

JI: What kinds of challenges and opportuni-

ties did you experience in Brazil as you pur-

sued this creative path as a drummer?

DF: In one way I was very lucky to be born in

Brasil and start playing at a time when Samba

Jazz and Bossa Nova were extremely popular

and we had many places to be play. I am se lf

taught and I have learned a lot watching and

hanging with some fantastic musicians from

that golden era of Brazilian Music even

though I was a kid at the time. I learned from

musicians like Edison Machado, Tenório Jr,

Edison Maciel, João Palma, Milton Banana,

Raul De Souza, Dom Salvador, Victor Manga,

Sergio Barrozo Neto, Luis Carlos Vinhas,

Tião Neto and many others ,by watching them

play and playing along with theirs albums,

which I believe is a great way to learn These

days in Brazil is extremely difficult to play

“Samba Jazz.” Most of my friends in Brazil

make a decent living, either working in a stu-

dio playing commercial music, or playing for

a pop star singer, and I think that is OK. As a

matter of a fact Maucha Adnet, my wife is a

singer and I love playing with her. I have

played with many other singers and I really

enjoy it, it is a completely different musical

approach, and I like the challenge but in my

opinion it should be an option, not the only

option. I always wanted to meet and play with

American Jazz musicians and mix Brazilian

and American cultures. The only way that I

found to pursue my dream was by moving to

New York, the place where you find the best

in the world. One of my musical goals in life,

is to make a perfect blend of Samba and Jazz ,

and that is what I have been developing and

refining my entire musical life.

JI: Talk about your move to the Unted States

and the challenges and opportunities you ex-

perienced.

DF: In December of 1975, I moved to New

York to follow my dream of playing with

American Jazz musicians and blending these

two beautiful cultures. Two months after I

arrived in New York, I got called to do a re-

cording session in Los Angeles. I played with

the late, great trombone player Frank Rosoli-

no, Raul de Souza, and performed a “drum

duet” with Harvey Mason. I thought, “Wow,

this is the American Dream!” I returned to

New York and spent all of my money. I

bought a beautiful set of Gretsch drums, an-

other dream come true, and then everything

changed. For more than one year, there was

hardly any work. Although those were very

difficult times, I would do it all over again. It

has been a great learning experience and a

fantastic journey. I am very proud to be one of

a few musicians who in the late ‘70s helped

revive the Brazilian Jazz scene in New York

City. I have been blessed to play, record, and

become friends with many wonderful musi-

cians.

JI: What kinds of understandings have you

discovered about people and or cultures in


“no matter where you play, music is a universal language and

chances are that you are always going to touch someone. Also

that no matter what, always play the music that you came prepared to play. Believe in it

and just do it, always try to stick to your original plan... People

feel and appreciate it when you are truthful to your music.”

Duduka DaFonseca

Believe in what you do

INTERVIEWINTERVIEW


xxxxxxxxxx

your travels and performances recently?

DF: I have learned that no matter where you

play music is a universal language and chanc-

es are that you always going to touch some-

one. Also that no matter what, always play the

music that you came prepared to play. Believe

in it and just do it, always try to stick to your

original plan... People feel and appreciate it

when you are truthful to your music.

JI: Talk about what you’ve learned about

leadership from one or more of the jazz artists

with/for whom you have worked.

DF: I have learned a lot from different leaders

in different ways, but they all share a very

important common point, they hired you be-

cause they trust your musicality and they en-

courage you to pour your heart out when you

play their music. That itself it is a fantastic

learning process.

JI: What have you discovered about the busi-

ness side of the music as a result of your asso-

ciations recording for various labels, dealing

with managers and venue decision makers?

DF: In life we have many choices. One can

do the things that he or she believes in or let

other people tell them what they should do. I

prefer the first option. The great drummer /

percussionist Dom Um Romão told me short-

ly after I’d moved from Rio to New York in !

975, “If you bend to much, you end up show-

ing your ass.” He was a great man, very street

smart, Dom Um helped many musicians when

we arrived in the U.S. including myself, Dom

Salvador, Naná Vasconcelos and many, many

others.

JI: Regarding my solo albums, I produced

them myself, but was always open for the

valuable suggestions of the musicians that

played on them.

DF: Dealing with managers and venue deci-

sion makers is another ball game. First of all

you have to be lucky to have a good manager

that likes and respect your music and is will-

ing to help you. Dealing with venue decision

makers is also a matter of find someone who

wants to help your music to get heard. I have

had good experiences with some, in New

York Todd Barkan is definitely someone that

has been helping me promote my music.

JI: Talk about your association with Romero

Lubambo and Nilson Matta with whom you

created Trio Da Paz?

DF: We have been playing together for over

twenty five years, and I believe that Trio Da

Paz has a very original sound, which in my

opinion is one of the most, if not the most

valuable quality in music. Trio Da Paz is now

in the process of recording another album, just

the Trio. We always have a ball when we hit.

We know each other so well, I believe that we

have a telepathic vibe going on at times.

JI: Are there words of wisdom or guiding

ideas - about life, business and or music -

which provide foundations for your creative

pursuits?

DF: Believe in what you do, and be persis-

tent, very persistent.


“...among human beings jealousy ranks distinctly as a

weakness; a trademark of small minds; a property of all small minds, yet a property

which even the smallest is ashamed of; and when accused of its possession will

lyingly deny it and resent the accusation as an insult.”

-Mark Twain

Duduka DaFonseca


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Interview & Photo By Eric Nemeyer

JI: Could you talk about the role interactivity plays

in your concept

IJ: Interactivity or interaction is to me the essence

of this music. It’s the spirit that struck me in the

very beginning of my playing career. Or, I would

say it was even further before that. It goes back to

my childhood—listening to jazz, listening to rec-

ords my mom made, listening to records my mom

would play around the house. That was more a

feeling of a bunch of spirits getting together—just

feeling that spirit of something that wasn’t so re-

hearsed. When I started playing, and improvising,

that feeling continued on—as a spirit that moved

me to want to play. The first time I improvised in

the combo at school, I felt this feeling of complete

and total fear, combined with absolute bliss of

inspiration, and the opportunity for me to express

myself.

JI: How old were you when you first started play-

ing in that combo, and what kind of skills did you

have at that point?

IJ: I had basic trumpet skills. I had maybe a couple

of octaves to work with. It was a sound that I didn’t

like. I had a knowledge of piano— of tunes, of

melodies, from hearing my mom play standards,

and sitting at the piano and playing a little bit. I had

had some piano lessons. So with those limited

skills, I was able to kind of put the sound I was

hearing in my head. I just started to fish around for

ideas. Clark Terry calls it fishing for fingers—

which means you know you’re just searching.

You’re closing your eyes and hoping that you’ll

land on a note that has something to do with the

music. That was my first searching process. I was

fourteen years old. I had just gone into grade eight.

We had this fantastic band teacher who was intent

on getting everyone soloing—and he did. He man-

aged to get girls and guys soloing. He didn’t really

care if they got upset, or started screaming and

yelling, or got embarrassed. He really thought that

it was important that the students had a chance to

express themselves,

in an idiom that

was unknown terri-

tory. Not everyone

in the school band

program went on to

be a musician. A lot

of the people did. A

lot of the people in

the area that I grew

up went on to be

professional musi-

cians and improvising musicians.

JI: Some musicians have indicated that interactivi-

ty isn’t always important—whether they’re playing

free or whatever it is. I have difficulty imagining

playing with other people and not having interac-

tivity. Then you’re just using them as a platform

for your own pleasure, or whatever you want to call

it. Why have them there in the first place, if there’s

not going to be some sort of dialogue—however

abstract, or whatever form that might take. Ulti-

mately, if you’re playing with other people, you’re

also likely to be listening.

IJ: Absolutely. I think that that’s a great observa-

tion and a great question—if it’s a question. For

me, that’s more to do with the mentality of being

soloist versus the mentality of being an integrated

player—being in a preferable situation. I’m react-

ing off of everything. Hopefully, I’m reacting for

the audience and using the room sound, my own

sound in relation to the system, the system, what

it’s giving me back. Way deeper than that, I am

reacting to every little nuance that goes on within

my band. I feel that I can only express myself when

I’m playing with players who are willing to be in

that state. The way that I get off when I’m play-

ing— nd it really is about getting off—is that I play

with people who want to be part of the whole fram-

ing of my playing. They don’t see me as just some-

one that they can play time behind and that’s going

to be good enough. Hopefully, we’re playing to-

gether because we want to get each other off and

go where we don’t know the music is going to

go—into the land of mystery. Then, of course, we

need the skills, and the vocabulary to get musical

thoughts and musical stories out of that experience.

JI: I was just listening to Wayne Dyer talk about

the power of intention, and how living in the mys-

tery of life is more important than living in what

we already know. He talks about how we all come

from this microscopic dot. It’s fascinating because

he says if we turn up the microscope it does not tell

you where you came from. Yes the dot came from

your parents blissful union as he mentioned. But

observation of the dot still doesn’t tell you where

you came from. That is, ultimately there’s a soul

that comes through the dot, that’s not about the

physical thing.

IJ: Right. Perfect. The soul coming through the dot

is the real gift of being an improviser. That gift is

the privilege of being a musician who gets to go to

places. You get to play music with people who are

willing to just open up themselves, and go into the

unknown territory— whether its over a one-chord

vamp, or its over “Giant Steps.” It’s not really so

much about even the tune I’m playing anymore.

It’s about how much we are going to make out of

that tune together—from the minute we begin play-

ing to the last breadth of the gig. Where are we

going to let that music go? Again, that’s why the

audience is so important. You can almost feel it—

like a force coming at you, in a positive or negative

way. They are coming from a space where they’re

open to anything. You don’t want to come into the

gig with a set idea of how jazz sounds, and not be

willing to go to the next place with it. That goes

back to my early days of listening to music. I got

caught up by the spirit of someone like Clark Ter-

ry—with his sound and his voice. I thought this

guy has got to be crazy. He’s got to be hilarious.

He can’t be just an uptight guy in a suit, who just

plays a certain way on every gig. There’s no way! I

was right. As I got to know Clark over the years, I

am constantly blown away with what an open spirit

he is. That freedom in his playing defies category.

It’s just great music from a great person.

JI: Well, I think if we’re going to grow as artists,

we always want to be expanding our horizons. The

moment you are stagnant you are dead. Unlike

sports figures, many of whom peak (or earn lots of

money to motivate an exit from sports) at 35 or 40,

jazz musicians are really pursuing lifelong growth.

It is all that life experience and understanding that

we can infuse into our playing which is really

amazing to me. I think it keeps you young.

IJ: Absolutely. Look at these guys. Look at Roy

Haynes. He’s 80 [something]. He’s just a kid. The

important element to me in the music is to always

remember to go for it—whether I’m writing or

playing—that childlike state. I’ve been doing all

these interviews with myself and essays for my

website. I’ve been doing the ArtistShare thing. It

has been really fun to just sort of think about what

it was that turned me on in music. A lot of it is the

same today. When I travel around the world, peo-

ple ask me “what do you do for a living...what’s

your job?” I say, well, I don’t really have a job. I

just play. I’m like a kid. I put these things in this

case, and I go from place to place, and I play. The

traveling is a bit of work sometimes. So is the prep-

aration and the business side, the management,

doing everything on my own. That’s the work be-

cause it takes away from the playing. To find the

balance in my life right now is also a big goal of

mine. I want to find that balance where I’m con-

stantly able to just take off and play.

JI: It’s hard. Most everyone is in the same situa-

tion. You want to practice and you want to play—

but you also want to get paid at the end of the job.

IJ: There’s also, overhead—you know, living in

New York—especially if you’re doing self pro-

“ You don’t want to come into the gig with a set idea of how jazz sounds, and not be willing to go to the next place with it. That goes back to my early days of listening to

music. I got caught up by the spirit …”

Ingrid Jensen

Interactivity is the essence of this music

INTERVIEWINTERVIEW


Ingrid Jensen


Eric Nemeyer CorporationEric Nemeyer Corporation

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duced projects like I am. My new recording is

called At Sea. The entire project is about independ-

ence. It’s about the idea of being alone out in the

middle of it all—but having all these resources to

make it work, and not relying on the big record

company, or the little record company, or any rec-

ord company at this point. It’s about having the

freedom, to just use what it is that I have at this

point to survive, and to put music out there for you.

JI: You mention just a moment ago, that Roy

Haynes and Clark are youthful in their eighties.

You mentioned that you’re always thinking like a

kid. One of my favorite quotes is by Ashley Monta-

gue who said, “don’t grow old in your adult quali-

ties, but in your childlike qualities.” So that way

you’re always young.

IJ: I want your book list Eric. Do you have a book

list?

JI: Yeah, I do

IJ: Can you put it in the magazine one day; I’d like

to read it.

JI: I don’t have it here, but about fifteen to twenty

years ago I started writing in these travel size jour-

nals—you know, those little agenda or date books.

I began writing quotes that I like that I would see in

books, books like The Path of Least Resistance,

which is one of my favorite books. I couldn’t even

begin getting into at first. Then, a light bulb went

on. It all made sense and began to come together—

and I plowed through the book. There are others.

Could you discuss your beginnings on trumpet.

IJ: I’m left handed. Trying to play the trumpet was

very difficult thing for me because you play with

the right hand. If I would go back to the beginning

and not worry about that, I would “A” say screw it.

I’m playing the trumpet left handed. Or, B I would

not worry about the fact that I’m having to do this

intensely, very intricate skill using a hand with

which I have no coordination. I can’t throw a ball,

I can hardly pick up a bottle of water without spill-

ing it with my right hand.

JI: That’s interesting that you play with your left

hand. Some successful people take weaknesses and

turn them into unique skills or selling points. Take

Monk’s sound. Had he and Miles Davis been

forced to go through the educational process that

exists today, their technique, and unique sounds

would have been sanitized.

IJ: Oh, it could have robbed them. In a way, mine

was a very fortunate sort of handicap. I guess it’s a

handicap. But for me, playing with my right hand

was a struggle. The trumpet instructor said you

played with your right hand and that’s it. It created

a lot of stress in my life. I had three major injuries

in my life. Those came as a result of the tension

that came from playing with all that stress—forcing

coordination to take place. Thankfully that situa-

tion taught me to do things outside of music that

helped. I studied Chi Wong. I studied Yoga. I start-

ed exercising. I have to do all these physical and

kind of spiritual exercises to keep things flowing

and not injure myself. In addition to that though,

the thing that was really cool was I couldn’t learn

licks. I couldn’t remember them. My mind couldn’t

memorize finger patterns that could lock me in. So

I was actually forced to go for more of an original

thought.

JI: You have to look at that as a good thing though.

I used to look at all these “challenges” and

“setbacks” as problems when I was starting.

We’ve all experienced political power-plays, and

egos and unfair criticism, and not getting jobs we

wanted. You know, setbacks are painful at the mo-

ment. Then you grow. I now look at those prob-

lems as the very guiding posts that enabled me to

stay on the path and get to where I have currently

traveled, and accomplish certain things. It’s the

impeded stream that sings.

IJ: Exactly

JI: I just read The Four Agreements. The author

talks about how you can save yourself a lot of un-

necessary suffering if you don’t care what people

think or do.

IJ: I better write that one down. Cause you know

we’re always working on ourselves here. Major

self help.

JI: I think so. It’s a good thing really. If people

want to remain stagnant and forever be locked in to

their current level of understanding, that’s easy. On

the other hand, Oliver Wendell Holmes said, “the

mind once expanded to a larger dimension never

retreats to its original size.”

IJ: I think that its about fear too. It’s a very scary

thing too to move on from yourself and go into the

unknown.

JI: But that’s what you’re talking about in the mu-

sic—where you go on stage, or you’re at a session,

or playing and trying new things. Of course, it’s

easier to try things, and easier to grow when you’re

surrounded by people who you like and who you

trust. It gives you a little bit of a safety net.

IJ: Absolutely. You just have to go for it.

JI: Could you talk about you’re the kinds of pro-

cess you go through when you are composing.

IJ: Well, my process unfortunately gets controlled

by how busy I am, and how much I am on tour. My

favorite process is when I have at least have a cou-

ple of weeks off, and I’m at home, and the business

is out of the way. I can just completely let go of

everything I have to worry about—as far as bills

and taxes and things like that. I just sit at the piano

and play melodies to the chords and record into my

ipod. Or, I pick up my trumpet and do the same

thing—while I’m practicing some music, or warm-

ing up on something. As soon as I feel an idea start

to flow I record it in there. I try to find some logi-

cal relationships within those ideas. Then I start

developing it in as many ways as possible. I took a

couple of lessons with Kenny Werner. They really

opened my mind up to the possibilities of just tak-

ing two different lines, writing one in treble clef

and one in bass clef. And starting finding relation-

ships between those lines. Or, taking one note in

the bass line and one in the treble, and then looking

at the interval, and coming up with every possible

chord that relates to that. It’s really fun how you

just start to find any relationship, and you start to

create different pathways from those changes.

Rhythms definitely inspire me. I was in Peru,

twice. The Peruvian music—not the ambient flute

music, but the African-influenced Peruvian music,

the Creole they call it—has really got under my

skin, with those twelve eight subdivisions. I’ve

been sort of translating some of that music into

more odd meter feelings as well. I’m keeping the

lyrical feeling of the rhythms, and kind of expand-

ing on them. Another thing is that arranging helps

me a lot to come up with tunes. Often times I’ll

arrange a tune, I’ll just get obsessed with some part

of the tune and start to arrange it. Then I’ll realize

later on, that it is so much more my tune than the

tune it was. So I’ll just take that part and start com-

ing up with a piece. There’s actually a tune on my

record that started out as k.d. Lang tune. I deviated

so far from it that I just changed the melody—just

rewrote the melody. It’s like, that’s mine now. Part

of the reason has to do with licensing and paying

royalties. My song is so far from that tune, why

should I pay to use this song when its not even that

song anymore. When I’m talking about composing

to students, I tell them to use every possible idea

that you have to write with that could ever exist.

I’ve done stuff with my husband. He’ll write half

the tune and I’ll write the other half. It’s really fun

because then it blows your ear off because his sec-

tion is just the next section. Then he’ll add some-

thing after that. I’d like to get back into that be-

cause it’s really a lot of fun. When we were dating,

we were writing things together. Once he just faxed

me a melody—no rhythms. I just took the melody

and wrote some chord changes out of it. Then, he

sent me the “A” section for a tune and I just wrote

the bridge. That was it and the tune was done. I

usually have a three way process for composing.

One, is I play something on the trumpet then I

write it down on some staff paper. Then I sit down

at a piano, and mess around with that. Then I play

again—maybe playing the piano with my left hand

and then the melody with my right—to see how it

sounds. Then maybe I record just a bass line with

some of the chords. Then I might come up with

another melody. Finally I’ll move to the computer

because my writing is so messy. Then when I listen

back, usually on the computer, and I see the music,

that’s the final editing process. I’ll print it out.

Then I’ll go back to the piano, or go back to the

trumpet. It’s kind of this circular motion, of using

whatever tools I have available to finish the tune.

Or just to work on an idea. I definitely feel like a

composer in process. I feel like a beginner in so

many ways. I was playing so much, and not really

writing as much as I wish I had. I think a lot of it

had to do with my own obsession with wanting to

be technically proficient on every level on my own

instrument. Maybe I was obsessing a little too

much with just playing the trumpet. But one of the

things, I find that’s difficult is keeping that balance

between the trumpet and writing. And it’s going to

be a constant game to do that in my mind.

Continued in the next issue

of Jazz Inside Magazine


Ingrid Jensen

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