dynamics of later life working expert panel
TRANSCRIPT
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
1/51
www.workinglate.org
Dynamics of Later-life Working
http://www.workinglate.org/http://www.workinglate.org/ -
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
2/51
Overview
2
Outline of project
Provide summary findings
Interactive discussions throughout
How do your experiences compare?
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
3/51
3
Topicality of Research
High Profile age discrimination cases
Miriam OReilly vs BBC
Removal of the Default Retirement Age
Seldon vs CWJ Supreme Court Ruling
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
4/51
Topicality of Research
4
Increase of State Pension Age
Women: 60 to 65
SPA for both genders to 68 by 2046
Changes to public and private sector pensions
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
5/51
5
Aims and Objectives
Consider the facilitators and challenges of later
life working
Examine the interaction between employmentand other responsibilities
Explore the impact of recent age related
legislation on the dynamics of later life working
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
6/51
6
Development of Research
2 Initial panels
124 Semi-structured interviews:
Employers
Employees
Job seekers
Recently retired
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
7/517
Validation
Expert panels
Presenting & discussing findings
Dissemination
Maximising impact
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
8/51
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
9/51
Themes 1
9
Moving the goal posts
Working beyond SPA
Perceptions of age discrimination
Recruitment & retention
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
10/51
Themes 2
10
Attitudes towards retirement
Homeostasis of career
Work life balance
New identities of ageing
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
11/5111
Moving Goalposts
I've contributed ever since I left school, to my
pension, and I would say, the fact that they've
now moved the goalpost to the right slightly, is
slightly infuriating. (Employee, 50)
Changing targets
Culture of uncertainty
In relation to:
retirement, pensions, job seeking and economic
outlook
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
12/5112
Moving Goalposts
[] its because I talk to people all of the time with joint issues, back
issues, depression, social isolation, misuse of alcohol, it can be very
difficult. And then to expect those people to change their goal posts, theirretirement age, and then to expect them to be healthy until that age, I dont
know if that works so well. (Employee, 55)
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
13/5113
Moving Goal Posts
You're thinking 60 is when I retire, my mother retired at 60, and,now, theyre telling me 66. Well, that gives me 16 working years
left [] now if I was 20 and looking from 20 to 36, you think you
could have massive career advancement in that time. Whereas,
when youre 50 to 66 you have a different perception and maybe
partly because you had from a young age the idea that at 60 youwould be retiring. So its an adjustment and a turnaround
adjustment that you have to make. (Employee, 50)
Influence on career development
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
14/5114
Discussion Point
How can organisations manage this uncertainty aroundthe end of employees working lives?
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
15/51
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
16/51
Perceptions of Age Discrimination
16
Phrases used: feeling, inkling, hunch to describe
suspicion of age discrimination
Low incidence of formal complaints relative to suspicionof age discrimination
Lack of evidence to substantiate claims
First experience of age discrimination tends to be asearly as 40s
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
17/51
Perceptions of Age Discrimination
17
Kate is 53, she has been working with her organisation for over 10
years. After reaching 50 she began to get a feeling of a possible
culture of age discrimination. Kate was denied support to attain a
qualification. When this was challenged she explained that the buck
of explanation was passed along.
Kate began to gather up similar experiences from other colleagues
of similar ages. She then took her case to her Union representative
who advised her there wasnt enough evidence to make formal
claim.
The experience left Kate with the feeling that The company dont
value people of my age group
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
18/51
18
Discussion Point
Is this hunch or inkling regarding age discrimination
something youve heard of or experienced before?
Would you say it is difficult to prove such cases?
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
19/51
19
Perceptions of Age Discrimination
Age diversity in the workforce leads to a more age positive
organisational attitude
[] its nice having that broad mixture
of peoples [ages], and we all get on
very well. (Employee, 62)
Its important to have older workers
working with younger workers
together. (Employee, 58)
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
20/51
20
Perceptions of Age Discrimination
I can remember my early days in recruitment, you know, there were
piles of candidates under the age of 35 and piles of candidates over
the age of 35. And that was one of the ways they were actuallysegregated, and then you rarely saw older candidates to be honest.
I'm talking 20 years ago when I first went into recruitment.
(Employer, 51)
Perceptions of age discrimination were reported from the
ages of 40-50 in current interviewees
Experienced much earlier in the past:
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
21/51
Discussion Point
21
With regard to experiences of age discrimination, have the
age boundaries for these reported experiences changed?
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
22/51
22
Recruitment
Employers cite organisational policy that age is alwaysremoved from CVs. However it is accepted that age is often
inferred from employment history
The view of employees & job seekers is that age is taken into
account during the application process, and can be both a
barrier or facilitator to gaining employment, depending on the
role
Age discrimination disputes in recruitment rare due to lack of
evidence
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
23/51
23
Recruitment
Well Ive made a lot of applications, but theyve all, I would
suggest, have been rejected because of age. I mean, Im
under no doubt about that. The application to [the job I was
eventually offered] was initially rejected and I sent an email tothe CEO querying why I was rejected; my qualifications were
perfect and I said it can only be you havent read my CV or its
age, and I then got put back in the system.
(Employee, 63)
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
24/51
Too Old To Work (From Channel 4)
24
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
25/51
25
Recruitment
Job seekers reported inaccessibility of the application process
Employers also accept recruitment is a online process, which is
unlikely to change
Dissonance between these two groups
Older job seekers are often not given a
chance[] Everything is email, when you
call the number they say they will call back
or post something but they never do
(Job Seeker, 52)
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
26/51
Recruitment
26
In [this industry] you dont tend to get anyone over the age of 40,
you just dont see it [] most people who work here are young,
and we tend to recruit people similar to ourselves, often from a
recommendation. (Employer, 27)
Some organisations or sectors create barriers to older
workers due to lack of age diversity
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
27/51
27
Recruitment
Job Advert
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
28/51
28
Recruitment
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
29/51
29
Discussion Point
In your experience, has age discrimination legislation reduced
age bias in the job application process?
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
30/51
End of Session 1
30
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
31/51
Session 2 Overview
31
Themes:
Working beyond SPA
Homeostasis of career
Work life balance
New identities of ageing
Implications of findings:
Employment policy and
practice
Guidelines foremployers
Dissemination
Impact Further research
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
32/51
32
Working beyond SPA
Definitely the call should be the employer, based on evidence
to support why you don't want that particular individual to work
beyond 65, for instance[] If I decide as the employer, I don't
want to employ you after 65, that should be my choice,because I'm paying you. So if I decide that I don't want you,
then I don't want you. Simple as that. (Employee, 50)
DRA has been removed
Uncertainty about who really decides when an
individual retires
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
33/51
Working beyond SPA
33
Seldon Supreme court interpretation: objectively
justifiable means legitimate aim
Missing out on legislation
Confusion about the legality of talking about retirement
Managing retirement with dignity
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
34/51
Working beyond SPA
34
[] Its kind of awful to think that people are going to end their
careers going down a capability route of disciplinary because they
are no longer capable of doing the role thats required of thembecause they are older. No one wants to performance manage out
an older worker as theyre reaching the end of their career []
regardless of legislation everyone wants careers to end with dignity.
(Employer, 42)
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
35/51
Discussion Point
35
Even after the removal of the DRA, who decides when an
employee should retire?
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
36/51
36
Homeostasis of career
Age and other commitments expressed as a major factor
limiting the desire for career progression
In many instances the term Career was deemed
inappropriate in reference to an individuals working life
Im not so sure about developing. Its sort of being stable, you know. I mean
obviously I have to keep up with the new technology which changes all the time.
You know in archaeology we have new equipment for surveying out on site, so
you have to adapt all the time to new developments. But, yes, Im not going to
get promoted at all in the next three years. (Employee, 62)
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
37/51
37
Homeostasis of career
The majority of interviewees aim to keep the same role, or
secure long term contracts in a particular role, rather than
progress their career
Maintaining work life balance was reported to be the main
rationale for this
Im not intending to look for
promotion but to maintain the
grade that Im on and just maybe
a sideways move.
(Employee, 53)
They [older workers] tend to stay with
us for a longer period of time. So
theyve got to a stage often in theircareer where the content of their role
is just as important as actually being
promoted. (Employer, 48)
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
38/51
38
Work Life Balance
Employees want polices inclusive of all ages:
Flexible working
Working from home
Carers polices Succession planning
Participants who report an age diverse workforce report a better
organisational attitude to age
Employees want equality a level playing field
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
39/51
39
Summary
Most employers strive for inclusive policies
Avoiding singling out any groups
Age legislation protects all age groups equally
I think that weve got to be careful here that we keep the right
balance, and we dont distinguish too much between a young
workforce and an older workforce[] theres a danger of
focusing anything on age per se because youll end up
stereotyping or putting people in boxes which isnt always
healthy. (Employer, 48)
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
40/51
New identities of ageing
40
Job seekers:
Changes in identity occur through the job search
processThrough the job search workers report feeling
labelled as old
Transition to retired to avoid label of unemployed
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
41/51
New identities of ageing
41
[] Ive done a few media interviews, and they describe me as: hes
a photographer, you know, that makes me sound interesting. If they
just say I was unemployed, I would not sound very interesting. []also I still try and identify myself with my previous job [park ranger]
as Ive done it for over 17 years. People Identify me with it, thats
what Im known as. [] Im aware of the issue with employment and
identity, its a big one for me. (Job seeker, 56)
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
42/51
42
New identities of ageing
A positive view from many participants living
healthy, productive lives
The view that we are living healthier as well aslonger lives
Rejection of the label of older when referring to
people over 50 years of age
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
43/51
New identities of ageing
43
I dont feel as old as I would have thought Id feel, when my
parents were around my age, they were very old. But I dont feel oldat all, Id almost say 60 is the new 40. (Recently retired, 67)
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
44/51
44
Employment Policy
Evidence that larger organisations were ahead of legislativechanges in DRA
Interviewees reported larger organisations lead the way in
policies regarding:
Retirement planning Phased retirement Pensions Recruitment & Retention
SMEs worked on a case by case basis
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
45/51
Discussion Point
45
How can good practice be transferred between organisations?
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
46/51
Discussion
46
Consideration of overall findings
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
47/51
Implications for employment policy and practice
47
Implications of these findings for occupational health provision?
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
48/51
Implications for employment policy and practice
48
Implications of these findings for interactions
between HR and line managers
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
49/51
Dissemination
49
How might these findings be
disseminated to reach the widest audience and maximise
the impact of this research?
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
50/51
Further research
50
Are there any topics raised by this research that would be
interesting for further research?
-
7/31/2019 Dynamics of Later Life Working Expert Panel
51/51
Thank you for Listening
www.workinglate.org
http://www.workinglate.org/http://www.workinglate.org/