Demon TM & ©2005 DC Comics.

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The Jack Kirby Collector, Vol. 12, No. 44, Fall 2005. Published quarterly by & ©2005 TwoMorrows Publishing, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. 919-449-0344. John Morrow, Editor. Pamela Morrow, Asst. Editor. Eric Nolen-Weathington, Production Assistant. Single issues: $13 postpaid ($15 Canada, $16 elsewhere). Four-issue subscriptions: $36.00 US, $60.00 Canada, $64.00 elsewhere. All characters are trademarks oftheir respective companies. All artwork is ©2005 Jack Kirby unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter is ©2005 the respective authors. First printing. PRINTED IN CANADA.

(above) A 1976 pencil drawing; we’re unsure what it was originally done for, but it nicely depicts the fabled battles of the gladiators in Rome.©2005 Jack Kirby Estate.

Contents

Myths & Legends ISSUE!

OPENING SHOT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2(a Kirby documentary on the Fantastic4 DVD?!)

UNDER THE COVERS . . . . . . . . . . . . .3(leave, leave, the form of pencil...)

MUSEUM PAGE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4(news from the Jack Kirby Museum)

INNERVIEW . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5(Jack’s rarely-seen 1983 interview)

JACK F.A.Q.s . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .11(Mark Evanier’s trip to Syd Shores)

INCIDENTAL ICONOGRAPHY . . . . . . . .17(a Norse is a Norse, of course, ofcourse)

KIRBY AS A GENRE . . . . . . . . . . . . .18(Adam McGovern on who made who)

ACCOLADES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .20(Kirby Award-winner David Schwartztalks about Jack, Mark, and Mike)

SOURCES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .23(Etrigan’s great grandfather?)

RETROSPECTIVE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .24(Jack’s midnight masterpiece, TheDemon)

GALLERY 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .27(some Demonic pencils)

OLD FRIENDS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .32(Barry Alfonso shows us thatWitchboy’s all grown up)

PUBLIC DOMAIN THEATRE . . . . . . .34(two complete Black Magic stories)

KIRBY OBSCURA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .42(journey into unexpected mystery...)

NEAR MYTHS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .44(how faithful was Jack’s to legends)

GALLERY 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .48(myth-illogical Kirby art, in pencil)

RETROSPECTIVE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .54(Thor the Thunderer revealed)

BEFORE & AFTER . . . . . . . . . . . . . .60(compare classic pencils to publishedinks, side-by-side)

NEAR MYTHS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .66(Odin’s not “all that,” and the legendof Galactus’ origin)

KIRBYWOOD . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .70(F4 screenwriter Mike France speaks)

COLLECTOR COMMENTS . . . . . . . . .78

PARTING SHOT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .80(what would Demon #17 have been?)

Front cover inks: MATT WAGNERFront cover colors: DAVE STEWARTBack cover painting: GEORGIO COMOLO

Photocopies of Jack’s uninked pencils from published comics arereproduced courtesy of the Kirby Estate,which has our thanks for their support.

COPYRIGHTS: Black Panther, Captain America, Eternals,Falcon, Fantastic Four, Galactus, Giant-Man, Him, Hulk, IronMan, Journey Into Mystery, Machine Man/X-51, Nick Fury,Odin, Prester John, Spider-Man, Thor, Watcher TM & ©2005Marvel Characters, Inc. • Atlas, Barri-Boy, Batman, Brainiac,Darkseid, Demon, Desaad, Farley Fairfax, Flash, ForeverPeople, Green Lantern, Guardian, House of Mystery, JasonBlood, Jimmy Olsen, Joker, Kamandi, Lex Luthor, MarkMoonrider, Merlin, Mister Miracle, Morgaine Le Fey, NewsboyLegion, Penguin, Sandman, Sandy, Super Powers, Superman,Vykin, Witchboy, Wonder Woman TM & ©2005 DC Comics. •Thunderfoot, Gladiator & Dracula drawings TM & ©2005 JackKirby Estate. • Black Magic TM Joe Simon and Jack Kirby. •2001: A Space Odyssey © 1968 Turner Entertainment Co.

THE NEW

C o l l e c t o rISSUE #44, FALL 2005

he critics seemed to be pretty lukewarm toward this summer’s Fantastic 4 movie.Ratings hovered at just a little above average, with most of the initial reviewerheadlines proclaiming something along the lines of “Fantastic 4 is hardly fantastic.”

So I went in to my local multiplex (something I don’t get to do very often these days,being the father of two small kids), armed with popcorn, a non-comics friend, and lowexpectations for the film. I came out, however, feeling pretty happy with it, for two reasons.

First, I thought is was a good film. Not great, mind you; Dr. Doom needed to be alot more interesting (despite casting Julian McMahon of TV’s Nip/Tuck, who I thoughtwas visually perfect for the part), and the climax, while packing plenty of action, wasover much too quickly (but it did a great job of showing the foursome working togetheragainst a common foe). If those two things had been better, I really think it would’vebeen one of the top comics-related movies ever made. As it is, I felt they did an out-standing job of presenting the team’s origin (and it didn’t bother me at all that Doomwent up into space with them, unlike in the comic book). The special effects were spec-tacular throughout, and while the acting may not win any Academy Awards, I don’trecall too many given out to other comics moviestars in the past. Chris Evans did a dead-on portrayal of what a hot-headed JohnnyStorm would be like in real life. Ioan Gruffud was an appropriately stuffy Reed. Jessica Alba thankfully didn’t spend too much time

being invisible (rowr!). Michael Chiklis was con-vincing and loveable as Ben. And the interplaybetween the Thing and the Torch was, for me, thehighlight of the flick, perfectly capturing theirvolatile relationship from the Lee/Kirby comics.While the film doesn’t look exactly Kirbyesque,there’s a lot of high-tech gadgetry and sets thatwere obviously inspired by Jack’s work, even if onlyKirby geeks like us will ever know it. And of course,

the huge end credit for Jack was the icing on the cake. All in all, it was a fun escapist romp, and I recommend everyone reading thismagazine check it out on DVD (and check out screenwriter Mike France’s interview elsewhere in this issue).

The other reason I was happy after leaving the theatre was because, three weeks after the film’s release, there was a decent sizedcrowd. Since most comics fans undoubtedly went to see it the first week it was out, this makes me confident that the film also appealedto the general public, despite lackluster reviews. (Even my non-comics friend who went with me enjoyed it, having no idea who the FFwere.) That in turns makes me hopeful that the DVD version of the film will sell a lot of copies.

But John, you ask; if the Kirby family isn’t receiving any money from the film (and they’re not), why do you want it to sell well onDVD?

The reason is, the Fantastic 4 DVD contains a documentary on Jack Kirby! As I write this, I just finished watching a prerelease copyof it. Titled Jack Kirby: Storyteller, and produced by Jon Mefford (who’s assembled many of the extra features on Marvel’s recent filmDVDs), it’s a one-hour look at Jack’s life and career. It features interviews with a who’s who of comics pros, including Stan Lee, NealAdams, Steve Rude, Alex Ross, Barry Windsor-Smith, Walter Simonson, and more! There’s also commentary by Jack’s kids Lisa and

Neal Kirby, Mark Evanier, Steve Sherman, Mike Royer, Mike Thibodeaux, and others involved in furtheringthe Kirby legacy, including yours truly (hey, somebody had to put the “Who?” in the who’s who). The biopresents plenty of rare family photos and Kirby art provided by TJKC and the Kirby estate, and while thevisuals are focused on Jack’s Marvel work (this is, after all, a Marvel DVD), Jack’s entire career is discussedin detail, including the Simon & Kirby years, his DC period, and animation (plus a wonderful sectiondevoted to Roz Kirby). And best of all, they got their facts right!

No, the Kirby family still doesn’t stand to gain a penny off the F4 movie or DVD, or the slew ofpromotional items that are blanketing toy and department stores around the world (have you seen thelifesize Thing Feet at Toys ’R’ Us?); we can only hope that, if the DVD does really well, perhaps 20thCentury Fox will do the right thing and pony-up a co-creator payment for the Kirby family, to matcheven a fraction of what Stan Lee will receive (frankly, I’ve given up hope Marvel will ever do the rightthing on its own). But regardless, this documentary stands to present Jack’s name and life to the gen-eral public in a way never before possible, and will hopefully generate some understanding of Jack’srole in the creation of Marvel’s characters, even if there’s no financial compensation coming for it.

So, what would Jack have thought of the F4 movie? Not really having known him, I can’t say forsure. But I like to think he’d have mostly enjoyed it (perhaps with the exception of Stan’s cameo aspostman Willie Lumpkin); and I’m confident, after viewing the documentary, he’d be thrilled withthe way his legacy is being preserved. From talking to producer Jon Mefford, I know that was hisintention in deciding to make the documentary (an idea which, by the way, was enthusiasticallyapproved of by Marvel Studios exec Avi Arad). That’s also the purpose of the new Jack KirbyMuseum & Research Center (launched on August 28 by Rand Hoppe at www.kirbymuseum.org—see the Museum Page elsewhere in this issue for more info). And of course, it’s been the goal ofthis magazine for eleven years and counting.

This is a pivotal time for Jack’s legacy, with a lot of importantevents all converging. Many people are doing their best to raiseKirby’s public profile, and I hope you’ll all do your part—by buyingthe F4 DVD, joining the Kirby Museum, and continuing to support

this publication. Together, we’ll see that Jack finally gets the credit he’s due,and have a lot of fun in the process. �

Opening Shot

2

TT

(above) Michael Chiklis as theThing.

(top right) Jack Kirby with hisart display, at a comics con-vention in the late 1970s.

(below) Cover of the Fantastic 4DVD, which features a docu-mentary on Jack’s life. It’s dueto hit stores on December 5.

Fantastic 4 DVD ©2005 20th Century Fox.Characters TM & ©2005 Marvel Characters,Inc.

by John Morrow, editor of TJKC

Kirby On Film

ur front cover this issue is Matt Wagner’s third attempt at inking the below pencils from Jack’s“Black Book” sketchbook (done in the mid-1970s as a gift for his wife Roz). When we asked why hedid two earlier versions (shown below), Matt responded, “The first one turned out “too Royer”—as

you had distinctly asked for it not to be. Additionally, as had often been the case whenever I’d tried to ink aKirby piece in the past, I lost all sense of texture—cloth looked the same asskin looked the same as rock looked the same as flame.

“On the next one, I decided to roughen things up a bit and used ascrubbly dry-brush effect that gave the piece an almost-indy/alternativecomics look. Still wasn’t satisfied with it, though.

“In the end, I did a version with ink wash and that one worked outquite well. It really captures not only the textures, but also the spirit ofKirby’s pencils—as well as a hefty dose of my own identity as well. Showedit to Bob Schreck and Diana Schutz last week and they both thought itlooked great—“a true collaboration.” At Matt’s request, the piece wasthen coloredby DaveStewart, whohas lots ofexperience atcoloring overink wash, andwe think itended up prettyspectacular!

Our back cover is a painting of Galactus byGeorgio Comolo that’s based on Jack’s beautifulfull-pager from Thor #160. Georgio’s done aslew of amazing Kirby-based paintings, includingthe great Demon #7 two-page spread shownabove (you should see it in color!). To viewmore examples of his work, and for commis-sions, be sure to visit his official website at<http://comolo.redsectorart.com/> �

Demon TM & ©2005 DC Comics.

Under The Covers OO

3

A column answering Frequently Asked Questions about Kirbyby Mark Evanier

We start this time with the following query from Michael Wohl:

I’ve seen you write about which Kirby inkers were your favorites butI’ve never seen you give your opinion of Syd Shores, whose work I loved.I’d also like to hear whatever you know about his return to Marvelafter years away and what Jack thought of his inking.

was not a big fan of what Shores did to Jack’s pencil art on Captain America. I liked him better embellishing Gene Colan but even there, I thought there were plenty of inkers who were

more sensitive to the task.That said, I will add that I liked Kirby/Shores a little better

when I sawsome ofthe originalart. Shoreswas using alot of finelines—some,apparently executedwith a ball-point pen ofsome sort—at a time whencomic book printing was especially noxious, and a lot of what heput in went muddy. This was also a period when Marvel’s coloristswere being influenced by what DC was doing with color in theirbooks—darker colors, less reliance on bright primary tones, less

yellow on the page. Kirby once describedit as: “Everything being colored like it’s awar comic.”

(It is said that a few months later,Stan Lee happened to leaf through a pileof their comics—like Jack, he didn’t lookat the printed books all that often—andsaid something like, “This isn’t how I wantour books to look!” And with that, Marvelwent back to brighter, lighter colors... anda better approach, I thought, at least fortheir super-hero titles.)

Still, even given those excuses, Ithought Shores was miscast... not just as aKirby inker but as an inker at all. And hisstint inking Jack is a good example of, asyou occasionally see in comics, an inkernot being sure of his goal. Shores’s naturaldrawing style was quite different from whatJack was then doing... so was the endproduct supposed to look like Kirby orShores? There are panels in those issuesthat skew in both directions and I don’tthink either approach is particularly effec-tive. Inking another artist is not somethingthat comes naturally to some folks whoknow how to draw, and I don’t thinkShores was really suited for the chore.

Once upon a time, Syd Shores wasMarvel’s star adventure artist. He held thepost for a period after Kirby and Al Avisonbut before Bill Everett, Joe Maneely andthe return of Kirby. No less than GeneColan and John Buscema would later citehim as a powerful teacher/influence, andyou could see a lot of other guys whodrew for Stan Lee back then wishing theywere Shores.

Shores started at Marvel as an inker,working with Simon and Kirby on theirfirst Captain America books. In an unpub-lished interview with Shores that recentlycame my way, he explained:

“I had been assisting Mac Raboy andit didn’t pay enough. I’d just gotten marriedand I was desperate for a real paycheck.So I wrote and drew this strip called “TheTerror” and I took it up to Timely Comics,just picking them at random. The wholeoffice consisted of Joe Simon and JackKirby and we sat around talking for a

II

Jack F.A.Q.sMark evanier

(below) A pretty punchyexample of Syd Shores’ inksover Kirby from CaptainAmerica #101 (May 1968).This image was shot from acopy of the original art,showing the detail thatShores put into his inking.

Captain America TM and ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.

11

Much has been written about JackKirby’s work on Thor—from the

debate over who controlled the character’sdestiny (Stan or Jack) to how the Thor that showed up in

Journey Into Mystery was not Jack’s first attempt at the character. This article, as the rest of those in this column, will focus on the visual evolution of the character.

Jack’s first professional attempt at the character showed up inAdventure Comics #75 in 1942. The character design was fairly evidently based on the typical depictions of Norse legends, sporting an

unkempt beard, a winged Vikinghelmet, loin cloth, arm bands, andstrapped boots. This Thor wields autilitarian hammer and has asheathed sword about his belt.Kirby’s design here must largelyhave come from older depictionsof the character, although theover-abundance of musclesseems to have been Jack’s ownaddition. It should be pointed out,though, that real Vikings neverwore helmets with wings orhorns—more on this in a bit.

A Jack Kirby Thor nextappears in Tales of theUnexpected #16. This is a mostsignificant pre-Marvel attempt atthe character, in large partbecause of his chronal proximity, havingbeen created in 1957. This version of Thorbears visual hallmarks of the previoustwo: the scruffy beard, fur-like loin cloth,

and sheathed sword from the earlier appear-ance; and the horned helmet, tunic and uniform boots from the latter.

There are two new additions to the design, though,that are clearly noteworthy. First is the addition of acape. This cape appears to be simply a fur claspedaround Thor’s neck and one could easily see a Vikingusing it to ward off the cold, winter winds of Norway.The second, more curious, addition is that of circulardesigns added to the chest area of his tunic. Lookingcarefully at the art, one can see that this isn’t thesimple circular designs that appear in later Marvelcomics, but appear to be more numerous, andfocused exclusively on the upper body. The sugges-tion seems to be that of a form of armor; smallplates sewn onto a leather tunic to deflect blowsaway from vital areas of the chest. Like thehorned helmet, this also has little relation back tohistorical Vikings. Both have their roots in fiction.

The “classical” image of a Viking is well-known in large part due to opera. RichardWagner’s series of four operas collectively calledThe Ring of the Nibelung is perhaps one of themost widely known works of fiction about Vikings. (The powerful andenduring “Ride of the Valkyries” is from the second of these operas.) While the originalcostumes begin to play with the visual notions of horned helmets and metallicbreastplates, it was seemingly cost-prohibitive at the time to become too elaborate. Itthus fell to turn-of-the-century illustrator Arthur Rackham to provide lush interpretationsand stunning visuals to accompany Wagner’s story. And, indeed, we find what must

be the source of Jack’s 1957 version of Thor, with the fur cape, horned helmet,bare arms and a tunic with circular plates

embedded in it. Would that Rackham’s Siegfriedcarried a hammer, he could easily be mistaken forthe son of Odin.

We cut to a few years later, as Jack wasworking on Marvel’s new Fantastic Four comicbook. Stan Lee had recently gotten sales numbersback on their first issues and was beginning to

see that Martin Goodman wasright, and that they shouldreturn to publishing super-heroes. The first tentative response was The IncredibleHulk, and before the first issue’s sales numbers came in, he had Jack Kirby workingon their next they-could-still-argue-he’s-not-quite-an-outright-super-hero-if-National-began-asking-questions super-hero: Thor, the god of thunder. Indeed the jobnumbers indicate Journey Into Mystery #83 was wedged comfortably between Hulk#2 and Amazing Fantasy #15.

Whether it was Stan or Jack who suggested Thor is beyond thescope of this column (and has beenaddressed elsewhere repeatedly) but itclearly fell to Jack to develop the charac-ter’s visual design. Whether by intentionor serendipity, Jack effectively lifted hischaracter design from his Unexpectedstory. The few differences are: this newThor is clean-shaven, does not carry asword, and sports a trimmed and hemmedcape instead of a fur one as well as wingedhelmet instead of a horned one. The changesto his facial hair and cape were almost certainly done for editorial reasons, to placeThor more squarely in the super-hero genre;the cape having been long established as asuper-hero emblem and the bare chin alsohaving been long established as heroic visual,much like the white cowboy hat. And if therewas any question with regard to Stan’s intentionof selling Thor to his readers as a super-hero,his editorial note in the last panel of Thor’s first

story verifies those intentions by calling the new protagonist, “Thor the Mighty, thegreatest super hero of all time…” (While beyond Jack’s direct control, it might be

IncidentalIconography

An ongoing analysis of Kirby’s visual shorthand, and how he inadvertently used it to develop his characters,

by Sean Kleefeld

FromTHIS:

He GotTHIS?

Tales of the Unexpected #16—chest dots!

Rackham’s “Wotan Reveals His Anguish to Brünhilde”

17

Adventure Comics #75

(continued on page 19)

David Schwartz InterviewInterviewed and transcribed by John Morrow

(Editor’s Note: In case you’re not familiar with the name DavidSchwartz, let me say he’s a great friend of the Kirby family, and ofyours truly as well. While he’s never been in the public Kirby spotlight,he’s helped out innumerable times on this magazine, supplying just theright piece of art when a need arises, and acting as a liaison betweenus and an often overworked Mike Thibodeaux in getting us materialsfor the mag. As you read this interview—which was conductedSeptember 19, 2005 by phone, and was copyedited by David—I thinkyou’ll understand why David was chosen to receive a Jack KirbyAward at last year’s Comic-Con International: San Diego.)

THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: David, can you give us somebrief biographical information on yourself?DAVID SCHWARTZ: I’m 47; I was born in 1958. I grew up in NewYork City, in Greenwich Village in the 1960s and I went to myfirst convention in 1971, which was Phil Seuling’s con; I was 13.

TJKC: Was Kirby there?

DAVID: Jack was there in 1972, I believe. I got a copy of Demon#1 signed. It was July of 1972, and I’ve still got that signature.Demon #1 would’ve been out some time in May. That was thefirst time I met Jack. Neal [Kirby] was there selling Jack’s comicsand art. The thing I remember most is waiting in line with every-body. There was a guy in front of me with Captain America #1,which was a big deal even at that time, and he had Jack sign it.And there was another guy who had Spider-Man #42, and Jacklooked at it and said, “I didn’t work on this,” and the kid said,“That’s okay, could you sign it anyway?”” (laughter) So Jacksigned Spider-Man #42. If the fan was happy, Jack was happy.

TJKC: So you were steeped in the whole ’60s-era Marvel period?DAVID: Yeah, the Marvel stuff ’s what grabbed me. I’d read theArchie and Harvey stuff when I was younger, but my first “real”comics were Fantastic Four and Spider-Man. The first things Ibought off the stands were Spider-Man #44 and Fantastic Four#58 or #59. Then I started buying Marvel Tales and MarvelCollector’s Item Classics, and discovered Ditko’s Spider-Man andthe real early issues of Fantastic Four in those reprints. But I wascompletely unaware Jack had been at DC prior to that, and didn’tknow much about his comics in the 1940s.

TJKC: Was there anything really eventful about that first meeting?DAVID: No, it was pretty much, “Here, will you sign my book?”There was a line of people, and I said “hello” and shook his hand.I was very shy, and went away; a quick meeting where I recognizedwho I was in the presence of, and there was a long line and I didn’twant to overstay.

TJKC: After that Demon #1 signing, when were your next encounterswith Jack?DAVID: The first was at a convention in the late 1970s. It waseither at a Baycon in San Francisco or a San Diego convention. Ihad an opportunity, for whatever reason, to be talking to Jack,and I went to lunch with him and Roz. I wasn’t the only one;there were four or five fans, and I seem to remember just being ina position where they said, “We’re going to get something to eat;would you guys like to come?” And we went. That was the firsttime I actually got to sit down and meet them, and really knowJack on any level. I just remember being kind of in awe of beingat a table with Jack Kirby, and speaking with him throughout thelunch. It was just a great thrill.

In 1980, I’d graduated from San Francisco State University,and moved down to Los Angeles to work in the television industry.I met Mike Thibodeaux at a convention, and we got to know eachother and became friends. He had just started inking CaptainVictory, around 1981. He was so excited, and so secretive, becauseit hadn’t come out yet, and he didn’t want to say anything until itcame out—partially because he couldn’t believe he was doing it.(laughter) He didn’t want to jinx it.

Mike invited me up to the Kirbys’. It was pretty amazing;their walls were adorned with all this bursting creativity of Jack’s,whether it was things he’d just done for the house, or his collages.You were in this amazing, powerful space of Jack Kirby’s energy,and that was pretty phenomenal. Jack would go with you aroundthe home, and give you a little story about each piece of artwork;a little guided tour around his home. Over the years, he did it somany times, that by the time Jack passed away, when fans wouldcome up there with me or Mike, I was able to give that tour tosome extent. (laughter) And because Mike and I were friends, Iwas invited up many more times during the years.

The next time I ran into Jack was at Ruby-Spears, when hewas doing animation things. I started writing animated cartoonsin 1982 for Hanna-Barbera, Ruby-Spears, Filmation, and Disney.Over the years, I wrote 75-80 different episodes of cartoon showsas a freelance writer; things like Alvin and the Chipmunks, Jonny

(below) An example of thekind of help David gives to this publication: He discovered this obscure1980s Kirby piece (inkedby Mike Thibodeaux) andimmediately sent us acopy. Whatta guy!

©2005 Jack Kirby Estate

(next page, top) David andJack in the ’80s.

(next page, bottom) An’80s Kirby animationpiece, from around thetime David worked forRuby-Spears.

©2005 Jack Kirby Estate

Accolades David Meets Goliath

20

Quest, the Addams Family, and many others. Theday I ran into Roz and Jack they were dropping offartwork, and because I had visited them in theirhome, they remembered me, so we said “Hi” as apassing thing. I remember it because it was always abig thrill whenever I got to see Jack.

TJKC: How’d you get started in animation?DAVID: Mark [Evanier] got me started. Someonehad given me his number, saying he was a comicbook person who also worked in television. I was incollege, and I’d written some speculative sitcomscripts, so I called him. Mark was willing to readthem and give me advice.

TJKC: At the time, did you realize this was Jack Kirby’sformer assistant?DAVID: No, I didn’t have a clue! (laughter) I didn’tassociate the name at the time. I probably knewhe’d worked with Jack in one portion of my brain,but it didn’t connect right away. Here was a guywho worked in television who could possibly giveme some advice on my scripts.

When I moved to Los Angeles in 1980 to workin television, I didn’t know anybody except Mark, soI said, “I’m new in town, let’s have lunch.” So Markand I established a friendship. He knew I was tryingto write sitcoms, and I was working on different TVshows as an assistant, but wasn’t able to break in.Mark was a story editor at Hanna-Barbera, and gaveme the opportunity to write a Richie Rich cartoon in1982; he bought it, liked it, and it actually aired.And I thought, “I’m in! Mark’s the story editor,and I’m gonna be able to do more scripts,and everything’s great,” and Mark said tome, “Now I’ve gotten your foot in the door.You need to go out and get work from otherpeople, so it doesn’t look like you’re onlybeing hired because we know each other.” It’sthe best thing he could’ve done. He gave mean aired sample that I could bring to others,and say, “This was bought by Hanna-Barbera,and now I want to do one for you.” So I went out and worked for twelve years doinganimated cartoons.

Mark gave me what he called a Ten-Minute Lesson On How To Write AnimatedCartoons. For the next ten years, to anyone Imet who wanted to get into writing cartoons,I considered it my duty to go to lunch withthem, to be willing to read what they wrote,and to give them that Ten-Minute Lesson. It’snot ten minutes on how to be a writer; it’sten minutes on how to write for this specificformat. I really felt an obligation to help any-one who wanted to get into the industry,based on the kindness and helpfulness Markhad shown to me. Without Mark, it would’ve

been a lot harder for me to get my footin the door.

TJKC: Were your other encounters withJack visits with Mike Thibodeaux up tothe Kirby house?DAVID: Yes. Mike became kind of theunofficial greeter up there. If peoplewanted to go up there and meet Jackand Roz, Mike was the person Jack andRoz would refer them to. Mike waskind of the ambassador of bringingpeople up there. (laughter) I think therewas also an added comfortability forJack and Roz when Mike was there.Mike also knew the values of the original

artwork really well, so he could helpwith that if people wanted to buyart. Over the years, he became kindof an adopted son to them.

TJKC: Mike became the de facto artagent at some point. It just sort ofevolved that way through this process?DAVID: Yeah. Since Roz wasn’t anart collector, it was very hard for herto be up on all the pricing. Plus, how do you negotiatewith Roz Kirby? You just want to say, “Here’s all mymoney, Roz, give me whatever you think it’s worth.”(laughter)Mike could be that person, so you wouldn’thave to say, “Gee, Roz, can I have it for ten dollarscheaper?” He became really invaluable to them, andhe did it all out of his love for them, for years andyears.

TJKC: How often did you see Jack after the Ruby-Spears meeting?DAVID: Mike and I went up there once or twice amonth, for at least a couple of years in the mid-1980s.

TJKC: So you got to be a regular fixture around thehouse?DAVID: Yeah, but nowhere near what Mike was. Itgot to the point where they were very familiar withme when I came up, and I was very friendly with them.

TJKC: All modesty aside, what was your involvementwith Jack and Roz and the family?

DAVID: All modesty aside, I was basically someonewho backed Mike up. Mike would go up there, andhe’d be with people he didn’t know; different collec-tors, or huge fans who’d be so thrilled to meet Jack.Mike didn’t know a lot of these people, and wasn’tall that comfortable going up alone with these peoplehe didn’t know, so he would invite me to comealong, because he knew me, and we had a certaincamaraderie, and an ability to be comfortable andinclude the new people in that comfort zone. Mikewould call me and say, “Somebody wants to meetthe Kirbys,” and I’d meet him over at his house, andwe went up there. That was kind of the pattern.

TJKC: Being an art collector, were you helpful to Mikein suggesting whether heshould negotiate up ordown when he was pricingoriginal artwork to sell tocollectors? DAVID: Oh yeah, I becamevery good at doing that.He was really the liaisonto Roz, but when you’redealing with something asfluid as art collecting,

sometimes things go up in value, or get more or lesspopular; Mike and I having the ability to soundboardeach other made a big difference, so we at least feltJack and Roz were getting a fair price. A lot of ourgoal was to make sure we were able to satisfy boththe collector who didn’t want to feel they were over-paying, while at the same time wanting to make sureRoz and Jack got a very fair price for their artwork.

TJKC: Why do you think you received a Jack KirbyAward?DAVID: After Jack passed away, Mike and I reallybecame very instrumental in making sure Roz wasokay, and taking care of Roz. Mike, certainly muchmore than I was, made sure she was okay health-wise, or was able to get what she needed. We usedto take Roz to dinner a lot, and spend a lot of timewith her, because she was a real joy to spend timewith. But I want to emphasize that, while I was thereand was always trying to do what I could, Mike didso much more, and put in so much more time.

That’s not to minimize what I did, but Idon’t want it to look like I was up there withMike every time, and I was as helpful as hewas. Because truthfully, he was family withthem, and I was basically his friend who waslucky enough, and in the right place at theright time, to be able to be supportive ofhim, and have all the wonderfulness of beingpart of that family. At some point, somebodyneeds to write something on how instrumentalMike was in the well-being of the Kirby family,especially after Jack passed away. If Rozneeded groceries, if she needed to be drivensomewhere, if she needed to go to the doctor,he was right there every time. Mike wasprobably at first so in awe of meeting themin the 1970s, but his love for who they wereas people quickly transcended his love forwho Jack was as an icon.

TJKC: My sense is that you helped Mike a lot.DAVID: I’m very organized, and have a lot ofclarity and a good memory about things. Iremember if a piece of artwork was sold ornot, or if it had some kind of defect that Mikemight not remember. I would also rememberwhat previous things sold for, and because

DAVID SCHWARTZ

21

by Brian Eads

was combing the Classics aisle of a local video store recently, looking for any interesting DVDs, when I stopped in my tracks. There on the rack, staring out at me amongst films

from Hollywood’s by-gone era was... Etrigan? What in the worldwas this? Consumed with curiosity, I bought the DVD andheaded home to see for myself.

It was Häxan (The Witch), a silent film by Swedish directorBenjamin Christensen. The film is quite an oddity; it starts witha historical overview, presented in a documentary style, describ-ing ancient views of both the physical and supernatural worlds,and the evolution of the belief in a personification of evil thateventually became the Medieval Devil. From this, it goes on toillustrate in re-enactments how the fear of the Devil and theresulting hysteria led to the persecution and executions of thosebelieved to be witches in league with Satan. Christensen’s viewis informed by modern (circa 1920) psychiatric theories of hys-teria, both individual and collective. After the introduction, the

story is told in a series ofvignettes; some are literaldepictions of the horrifyingmethods of torture used bythe Inquisition to extractconfessions from accusedwitches; some depict ratherharmless forms of witch-craft, such as fortune-tellersor purveyors of lovepotions; but by far the mostshocking are the wild,phantasmagoric scenesdepicting the beliefs regard-ing witches and the Devilheld by peasants and theChurch in the Middle Ages.

These vignettes are fullof powerful and disturbingimagery. Christensen him-self plays the Devil, seenthroughout the film luring

women with evil temptations and presiding over his followers.The depictions of a Black Sabbath, witches flying through thenight to the Devil’s orgy, and making potions from the blood ofunchristened babies are just some of the shocking scenes.Christensen used these not to titillate, but rather to illustratehow rampant fear led people to unchecked flights of terrifyingimaginings. But, as horrific as these are, the film is also leavenedwith humor, such as a procession of witches lined up to kiss thebent-over Devil’s buttocks or the shots, interspersed in an orgyscene, of demons frantically churning butter. Christensen usedwhat for the time were cutting-edge techniques like multipleexposures, claymation, running film in reverse, and stunningmakeup to achieve effects that I found impressive even today.

Now we all know that Jack “borrowed” the Demon fromHal Foster’s Prince Valiant. But I think it’s quite likely that HalFoster saw Häxan and drew upon it when he created his“demon.” Of course, the evidence is only circumstantial, but Ithink it is fairly plausible. Foster’s demon was created in 1937;Häxan premiered in 1922, plenty of time for Foster to have seenit. Hal Foster traveled extensively throughout Europe, whichwould have presumably increased the likelihood of his encoun-tering this film. And Foster obviously had a keen interest inMedieval Europe, the primary setting of Häxan, which wouldhave made this film of particular interest to him.

There is a striking similarity between Häxan’s unnameddemon and the mask Foster devised for Val. Foster’s mask is

more “realistic” than the face depicted in Häxan, but then Val isonly wearing a mask, while the character in the film is actuallysupposed to be a fiend from the pit. Plus, Foster had to devisesomething that looked like it could be fashioned from a goose—an absolutely ingenious ploy—and he did. However, he mayhave based his design on publicity stills from the film becausethe demon mask he created resembles the cover image morethan how this demon appears in the film itself. (Yes, I realizeHal Foster couldn’t possibly have seen this DVD cover. In thecourse of researching this, I found several images from Häxanthat appear repeatedly, and this demon is one of them; thisleads me to believe that these photos were originally publicitystills, or perhaps even lobby posters, from the film’s release. Ifso, then it’s entirely possible Foster could have seen a very simi-lar, if not the exact, image.) This demon—all of the variousdemons in Häxan are individuals with unique makeup—appears on film only briefly during the orgy scene; he’s shownstirring some infernal brew, then offering it to a naked witchbefore an altar and, finally, debauching a witch during the orgy.In the film, the demon has very long, serrated ears and promi-nent horns. In this photo, however, the angle he’s shown fore-shortens the horns and ears considerably; the ears were alsocropped to show just his face. This picture looks very much likethe goose-mask fashioned by Val.

Also, one of the more technically outstanding sequencesfrom Häxan is Christensen’s depiction of witches flying throughthe night sky on broomsticks. In Prince Valiant, Foster has thedemon-masked Val spook some castle raiders by “flying”through a window on a broomstick. While on the face of it thismay not seem very telling, I have never heard any folk tale ofdemons using broomsticks—only witches. Maybe, if Foster didsee Häxan, this imagery was compelling enough for him use itfor his demon.

We know Jack in the late ’30s/early ’40s lifted several otherimages from this Prince Valiant sequence, such as the cover toRed Raven Comics #1. But it seems odd that, in 1972, Jack would,out of the blue, design a leading character based on an imagefrom thirty-five years previous. By then, he was a steamroller ofcreativity; I can’t imagine him bothering to slow down enoughto reference another artist’s work, even one as revered as Foster.(I’m not aware of any other notable Kirby swipe from the dawnof the Silver Age-on.) Though this sequence in Prince Valiantobviously made a strong impression on him at the time, it’shard to believe Jack would suddenly decide to lift that image allthese years later. But what if something jogged his memory andreminded him of this favorite sequence from his youth?

Again, all I can offer is circumstantial evidence, but I thinkit’s possible Jack saw, or was at least aware of, the film Häxan.Subtitled “Witchcraft Through the Ages,” it was re-released several times over the years, once in 1941 and again in 1968(with narration by William S. Burroughs!). The 1968 re-releasewould have been only a few years before Jack created theDemon. Maybe he saw it—or at least publicity photos for it—and recalled Foster’s demon and the fantastic sequence fromPrince Valiant. In fact, Jack’s Demon in some ways resemblesChristensen’s more so than it does Foster’s: Häxan’s demon haswhat appears to be fur around his eyes, which radiates outwardjaggedly; Kirby’s Demon has this same look, but the eyes ofFoster’s mask are simply dark recesses under Val’s brow. Ibelieve it is possible that not only was Foster’s demon inspiredby Häxan, but Kirby’s Demon may have been a synthesis ofboth Foster’s and Christensen’s visions.

Jack’s fertile imagination fathered the Demon, and there’sno doubt that Hal Foster can be regarded as the Demon’sGrandfather. And, now, I think it’s time to recognize the manwho may well have been the Demon’s Great Grandfather,Benjamin Christensen. �

Etrigan’s Great Grandfather?

(below) The cover artfor the DVD of Häxan.

(bottom) Hal Foster’sPrince Valiant dons agoose-flesh mask, tobecome at least oneof Jack’s inspirationsfor the Demon.

23

Sources

II

An uncanny look at a demon named Etrigan, by Brian Cremins

“There’s still a black, shivery outside, you know––a weird realm fromwhich men shrink in terror. Science hasn’t done away with it. Nothingwill ever do away with it.”

––Fritz Leiber, from Weird Tales, Sept. 1946

“As a needed change of pace in Kirby’s experimentation, the occultcharacter emerges as an identifiable individual who lives on thepremise that the strange world of black magic and potent spells is realand horribly alive with potential dangers for us normals.”––Mark Evanier and Steve Sherman, “Demonology as Heroics,”

The Demon #2 (Oct. 1972)

“AAAARRR!”––Etrigan the Demon, from “My Tomb in Castle Branek!,”

The Demon #2 (Oct. 1972)

or most comic book fans, the word “uncanny” evokes imagesof teenage mutants wearing skin-tight costumes and doingbattle against a white-haired, middle-aged man with a red-

and-purple tin can on his head. Many of us, in fact, gained anextra point or two after stumbling across this word on the SATs(raise your hands if you know what I’m talking about, class!).While I could spend this entire essay talking about Jack Kirby’sinvaluable contributions to the mythology of the X-Men, truth betold, they didn’t have that glorious adjective added to their nameuntil issue #114 in 1978 and they weren’t officially The UncannyX-Men until issue #142 in February, 1982, at which point Jack wasbusy at Pacific Comics writing and drawing Captain Victory andthe Galactic Rangers. So this essay isn’t about Jack and the X-Men,but it is about Jack and the Uncanny, specifically all of the strangecharacters and worlds Jack created for us during his sixteen-issuerun of The Demon in the early 1970s. If you like your weird tales

mixed with humor and just a hint of the absurd, youowe it to yourself to read “The Reincarnators” from TheDemon #3 (Nov. 1972) or, better yet, the stories featuringKlarion the Witchboy and his evil cat Teekl (issues #7,14, and 15). Just be sure not to read these stories too lateat night, or you may find yourself murmuring, “Gone!Gone!––The form of man––! Rise, the Demon Etrigan!!”and suddenly be transformed into a stunted creaturewith webbed ears, pale yellow skin, and fiery red eyes.This sounds like a classic case of split-identity. CallingDr. Freud, please! Dr. Freud?!

In 1919, Sigmund Freud published a paper in thejournal Imago entitled “The ‘Uncanny,’” one of the manyshort essays in which Freud writes more about literaturethan he does about his patients. He admits as much inthe first paragraph of the essay, saying, “It is only rarelythat a psycho-analyst feels impelled to investigate thesubject of aesthetics even when aesthetics is understoodto mean not merely the theory of beauty, but the theoryof feeling,” (Freud 368). As the essay progresses, itbecomes clear that Dr. Freud loved a good horror storyjust like everyone else and was especially frightened byE.T.A. Hoffman’s “Der Sandmann” (first published in1816-1817 and translated into English as “The Sand-Man”), the chilling tale of an obsessive young man slowlydestroyed by the memory of a traumatic event from hischildhood. I won’t tell you whether or not the youngman is destroyed by the villain of the story, the shadowyCoppelius––you’ll just have to find out for yourself.However, I can tell you about Freud’s reaction to thestory, which inspired him to invent a definition of “theuncanny” which will help explain why Jack’s Demon sto-ries, for example, are so ghoulishly entertaining.

The good Dr. Freud informs us that the uncanny“undoubtedly belongs to all that is terrible––to all thatarouses dread and creeping horror; it is equally certain,too, that the word is not always used in the clearlydefinable sense, so that it tends to coincide with what-ever excites dread” (Freud 368). “Creeping horror,”“dread”––has this sentence been translated from theGerman by H.P. Lovecraft or Fritz Leiber? Perhaps myAmerican Heritage Dictionary will help to clear things upa little. “Exciting wonder and fear; inexplicable; strange:an uncanny laugh.” My faithful red dictionary alsoinforms me that, in case I want to do some exploring, Ishould “see synonyms at weird.” So we’re right backwhere we started: the kind of feeling you get from read-ing the weird tales and experiencing the creeping horrorof a pulp magazine of the 1930s. Not so fast! Dr. Freudisn’t quite finished with us just yet.

Jack Kirby’sMidnight Ma(below) Creepy coverto Demon #15 (Dec.1973).

(next page) Demon#5 (Jan. 1973) let us see Etrigan andMerlin workingtogether.

Demon, Merlin, Witchboy TM &©2005 DC Comics.

24

Retrospective

FF

“[T]he ‘uncanny,’” Freud writes, “is thatclass of the terrifying which leads back tosomething long known to us, once very famil-iar” (Freud 369-370). Later in the essay Freudrefers to another great German thinker andphilosopher, Friedrich Schelling, and elabo-rates on this earlier definition: “According to[Schelling] everything is uncanny that oughtto have remained hidden and secret, yetcomes to light,” (Freud 375-376). This is thepart of Freud’s essay which is so intriguing,especially when applied to Jason Blood andhis link to Merlin’s Demon, Etrigan. Jason’sgreat curse, explored not only by Kirby butalso by Matt Wagner in his underrated 1987Demonmini-series, is his sense of alienationfrom his own body. After he discovers his vio-lent, vengeful other half, Jason Blood nolonger feels at home in his own skin. You can’tblame Jason from feeling estranged from him-self; after all, how would you feel if at anymoment a simple rhyming couplet could turnyou into a creature from the deepest pits ofDante’s––and Jack’s––fiery imagination?

The first issue of The Demon, “Unleash theOne Who Waits” (Aug.-Sept. 1972), is filledwith several uncanny moments in whichJason, a demonologist by trade, slowly uncov-ers his true identity as the human vessel forEtrigan. As Blood tells Mr. Warly in the open-ing scenes of issue #1, “A demon haunts mydreams! A demon haunts my life!” Jason’smysterious past is slowly coming to light, andhe’s beginning to feel a little crowded by thatother creature who shares his skin.

By the way, I neglected to mention anoth-er interesting bit of linguistic trivia, courtesyonce again of Dr. Freud, who informs us, “InArabic and Hebrew ‘uncanny’ means thesame as ‘daemonic,’ ‘gruesome,’” (Freud371). No wonder we’re told in the credits ofThe Demon #1 that we’re about to read “AMIDNIGHT CLASSIC by JACK KIRBY withinks of darkness by MIKE ROYER”!

Jack’s Demon first arrives on earth at atime when, as we learn in “Unleash the OneWho Waits,” “men still [live] in the shadowof the old gods!––and [fear] them!” As thewalls of Camelot fall before Morgaine Le Fey’sruthless, bloodthirsty hordes, Merlin formulates aplan to defend himself and his “Eternity Book.”What better way to fight evil than by summoning acreature from the depths of Hell itself? “I will soonvanish with Camelot, faithful guardian,” Merlintells Etrigan as the battle for Camelot subsides. “I’vegiven you a torn part of this fabled book! It is to beyour destiny––on earth!!” But why cast a fierceDemon as a hero? Can he be trusted? Merlin thenreveals that Etrigan will again be summoned todefend humanity from Morgaine Le Fey’s evil plans.“That may be many centuries hence––after time hasdone its work on Morgaine Le Fey,” Merlin reveals.“Her evil beauty shall fade and die, as Camelot doesthis night––never to be renewed!––unless she findsme––and this ancient book!” And, sure enough, inthe early 1970s a rapidly-decaying Morgaine Le Fey

returns to claim the Eternity Book but soon facesJason Blood, who appears to have forgotten allabout his powerful alter-ego... except for those curi-ous dreams, of course.

The often tense relationship which exists betweenJason Blood and Etrigan throughout the originalseries––on the cover of issue #3, for example, theyare shown chained together and trying with all theirmight to pull away from each other––calls to mindother uncanny relationships in the realm of imagina-tive fiction. Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, and BruceWayne are all respected men of the world who con-stantly struggle with inner demons who threaten tooverwhelm them. Walter Gibson’s The Shadow,another creature of the night, is often more terrify-ing than the criminals he claims as his victims, buthe spends most of his time as playboy Lamont

Cranston waltzing arm-in-arm with Margot Lane atthe Cobalt Club (I don’t have the room here toexplore The Shadow’s other secret identity, KentAllard!). What they all share in common is a dual,conflicted identity, a life spent sharing their space inthe universe with another being more strange andpowerful than one man can ever be. As Etrigan tellsJason in the dream sequence which opens TheDemon #3 (Nov. 1972), “HA HA HAH!! We’re linkedtogether, you and I! Bound as brothers, JasonBlood!” To underscore the tense relationshipbetween these two brothers, Jack and Mike Royerproduced some of the most grotesque creatures anddreamscapes ever seen in American comic books.The word “uncanny” applies not only to JasonBlood’s relationship with Etrigan, but also to Kirby’sexplosive, often expressionistic drawing style.

25

sterpiece

Gallery 1 ExorcisE the Demon!

All c

haracters TM

& ©

2005

DC Co

mics.

27

A look at Kirby’s pencils from his 16-issue run on DC’s The Demon (1972-74).

(this page) Demon #2 cover pencils. We originally tried to get Bernie Wrightson to ink this piece for thisissue’s cover, thinking it was tailor-made for him, but were unable to work it out. But just imagine...

(page 28) Simply one of the coolest (and creepiest)images Kirby created for his Demon series.

(page 29) While others have always drawn werewolvesas sleek, sinewy creatures, leave it to Jackto envision one as a hairy, hulking behemoth. Demon #6, page 19 pencils.

All characters TM & ©2005 DC Comics

An interview with Barry Alfonso, by John Morrow

[Editor’s Note: A lot of Kirby fans are likely familiar with BarryAlfonso without even knowing it. Born September 6, 1957 inSpringfield, MA, he moved to San Diego, CA in 1965, where he gotinvolved in the local comics fan community, leading to a visit withShel Dorf and other fans to the Kirby house in 1969. That group offans wound up being immortalized as the San Diego Five-String Mobin Jimmy Olsen, with young Barry serving as the visual inspirationfor Barri-Boy, the group’s “sixth string.” Jack later based the look ofWitchboy from The Demon on Barry as well. Currently living inPittsburgh, Barry was nominated for a Grammy Award for his linernotes to a Peter, Paul and Mary collection, and also co-wrote aNumber One country song with Craig Bickhardt called “In BetweenDances” (performed by Pam Tillis in 1995). Barry graciously agreedto this e-mail interview, which was conducted in September 2005.]

THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: How’d you first meet Jack Kirby?

BARRY ALFONSO: Ithappened more of lessthis way: in the latesummer or early fall of1969, I’d looked up alocal comic book dealernamed Richard Alf.Around that time, I’dalso been in contactwith Shel Dorf, who (Ithink) was trying to sellsome comics throughan ad in the localpaper. I recall putting

Richard andShel in contactwith oneanother, andthat led to thefirst meeting ofwhat becamethe foundinggroup of theSan DiegoComic-Con.(Others attend-ing were, Ibelieve, BobSourk, DanStewart, andMike Towry).Shel knew JackKirby and pro-posed that wetake a trip upto his town-house inIrvine, CA(where he wasliving before hemoved toThousandOaks). Being a12-year-oldJack Kirbyfanatic, I wasthrilled, ofcourse.

TJKC: Are there any specific memories of that first meeting? Didyou see Jack drawing?

BARRY: Jack and his wife Roz were extremely welcoming and gra-cious to all of us. Roz made us hamburgers and Jack took usaround his house. I remember being amazed to see an originalJack Kirby collage, as well as large prototype illustrations (col-ored) of new or redesigned characters, including a more elabo-rately-costumed Balder and a hero/villain named the BlackSphinx. Jack also showed us samples of a project he hoped toundertake: a comic book retelling of the Napoleonic Wars. Hewas willing to answer any and all questions, and even cheerfullyaccepted my comment that I didn’t like his version of Iron Manso well because he let Tony Stark’s eyes show through the helmet.(The impertinence!)

This first get-together (in Fall 1969) must’ve taken placeright around the time Jack left Marvel for DC. I recall asking himabout the “Inhumans” and “Ka-Zar” series he had been workingon. He said he had left them without any further ideas aboutwhere they might’ve gone.

TJKC: How’d it feel when you saw you got a “solo” as Barri-Boy inJimmy Olsen? Did you know what to expect from that issue (hav-ing seen the art pre-publication), or was it a total surprise? Whatled Jack to single you out of the Five String Mob, and make youthe “sixth string”?

BARRY: I’m not sure exactly how I felt about it. Thrilled and hon-ored, obviously. But it also seemed to grow out of this relation-ship all of us had forged with Jack—he really seemed to havetaken a shine to us. I don’t believe any of us saw the artwork fromthat Jimmy Olsen issue before it appeared, but we did know aboutit. Why did Jack single me out? Maybe because I was theyoungest of the group and the most starry-eyed in my fanhood,or something.

TJKC: Did you have any subsequent meetings with Jack, and if so,how often?

BARRY: The gang from the San Diego Comic-Con—in variouscombinations, with new people among us—must’ve visited Jackat least five times total between 1969 and 1974. One of these vis-its was arranged by me (through Shel?) so I could interview himfor my ’zine, Mysticogryfil. Jack was always happy to see us andthe get-togethers were very jolly and inspiring. (I recall one timethat he mentioned a desire to use Ramon De La Flores as a penname—has that appeared anywhere before?)

TJKC: How did your Witchboy appearance in The Demon comeabout? Did you know about Witchboy being based on you,before the comic was released?

BARRY: Again, I’m not sure how it came about. I will say this—inthose days, when I was 13 or 14, my hair was growing longer andI didn’t wash it as often as I might have. Consequently, it curledinto little horns around my ears. I think that—along with myskinny appearance—inspired Jack to create this little witchboycharacter with the horns at his temples. I guess I knew Witchboywas going to appear in the Demon, but I don’t think I saw himuntil the issue came out. I identified with Witchboy much morethan with Barri-Boy; there did seem to be some of me in there.

TJKC: Witchboy appeared twice; did you know he would bereturning, and did you ever discuss with Jack why he broughthim back?

BARRY: I wasn’t kept apprised of Witchboy’s whereabouts—Jackprobably felt it was best to let me know where he was when therest of the world did. I think Jack found Witchboy to be a like-ably wicked foil for the Demon, as well as a way of keeping an in-joke alive among his Comic-Con acolytes.

Witchboy, All Grown Up(below) Shel Dorf, BarryAlfonso, and Jack Kirby,circa 1971, and Barri-Boymakes the scene in thispencil panel from JimmyOlsen #144 (Dec. 1971).

(next page, top) Witchboy,based on Barry’s visage,debuts in this pencil pagefrom Demon #7 (March1973). The photo at thebottom is of Barry in 1973with Carmine Infantinoand Kirby. Both photoscourtesy of Shel Dorf.

All characters ©2005 DC Comics.

Old Friends

32

A look at Kirby’s use of legend and myth, by Shane Foley

“If there’s been one theme running through the comics career of JackKirby, it has been legend.”

(First Issue Special #1, text page)

et how well did Jack know and use the great themes of legend? On the one hand, readers of Thor know well thathe had good knowledge of the Norse myths, using what he

wanted and ignoring what he didn’t. On the other, readers ofBlack Panther #1 smiled at Jack’s reference to the story of “AliBaba and the Genie.”

Like most, my knowledge of actual legends is slim. I know afew names and a few generally accepted, but often wrong, ideasof some of the stories. So searching for some background on thelegends used in a few favorite Kirby stories would not onlyenlighten me but reveal a bit about Kirby’s usage of them as well.

Pandora’s Box (House of Mystery #61, 1957)Kirby’s story involves a strange “talking” chest being dumped atsea, then the attempt of a witness on the ship to uncover themystery of the box. He is stopped just in time before he unleash-es the horrors of the chest, revealed to be “Pandora’s Box.”Pandora was, in classical myth, the Greek equivalent of Eve andwas the bringer of sorrows to mankind. When she went to liveamongst men, she was given a gift from the gods—a sealed jarwith all the misfortunes of existence inside. But her great curios-ity got the better of her caution and she broke the seal, releasingsorrow, disease and conflict into the world.

Thus, according to the legend, there is now no mystical boxor any other container to be found as in Kirby’s story.

Prester John (Fantastic Four #54, 1966)In this story, Johnny Storm and Wyatt Wingfoot meet a charactercalled Prester John. He is dressed in “Medieval garb” and is insuspended animation, courtesy of the “Chair of Survival.” Whenhe wakes, he states he has been there for 700 years. He had beenin the service of good King Richard and then travelled the worldas the Wanderer, ending up on the fabled Isle of Avalon.

So who was “Prester John”? In Medieval times there existeda legend of a great King and Priest of God living in “the Far East,beyond Persia and Armenia” known by the simple and humbletitle of Presbyter or Prester John. (“Presbyter” means “Elder” inGreek). In the 12th Century, letters supposedly by him circulatedin Europe, wherein he writes that his land which included “theThree Indies” boasted rich natural resources, was “streaming withhoney, and overflowing with milk,” and was a place of peace andjustice. One traveller wrote, “In one region grows no poisonousherb, nor does the querulous frog ever quack in it, no scorpionexist, nor does the serpent glide amongst the grass.” Some recordsspeak of the fountain of youth freely available to all and of Johnhimself being 562 years old. He was said to be the guardian of theshrine of St. Thomas, the apostle to India, at Mylapore. Somesources said his worldly possessions included the Holy Grail,inherited from his Uncle, the Round-Table Knight Sir Percival.

Mostly he was popularized as a hoped-for ally against theMuslims. He was believed to be a Nestorian—a member of theindependent Eastern Christian Church, who did not accept theauthority of the Patriarch of Constantinople (the equivalent ofthe Catholic Church’s Pope).

He was usually seen as a Christian priest-king, but PresterJohn also appears in Medieval Jewish legend. One Jewish traveller

in the East between 1159 and 1173 wrotethat Prester John was a Jewish King whoruled with great splendor over a Jewishrealm. A later account recorded John asbeing a lineal descendant of Ogier the Dane,who reached the north of India with 15 ofhis barons. Marco Polo was one of manyother Middle Age travellers who claimedJohn ruled a vast Central Asian Kingdom.In his Travels, Marco Polo says GenghisKhan “fought against Prester John and aftera desperate fight, overcame and slew him.”

Pope Alexander III sent a messenger tohim in 1177 but the messenger neverreturned.

Later 14th Century reports fromPortuguese explorers began to place John’skingdom in Ethiopia. His legend continued,and a 15th Century woodcut depicts him asruling in both India and Ethiopia.

No source that I looked up referred toPrester John as one who had been in theservice of King Richard, as stated in FF#54. (These references could only refer tothe later Prester John legends as KingRichard—of Robin Hood fame—lived inthe late 14th/early 15th Centuries.) Nordid they mention he had been known as a“Wanderer,” although for him to have setup a Kingdom in the East, it would havebeen required at one point. Jack’s PresterJohn has very little in common with theman of legend. Instead, though he is fromancient times, he is a cosmic-minded travellerwho is at home with futuristic technology

In Name OnlyIn Name OnlyIn Name OnlyIn Name OnlyIn Name Only(below) Kirby took asecond shot atPrester John forMarvel Two-In-One#12 (Nov. 1975), ifonly on the cover.

(next page) Merlindebuts on the firstpage of Demon #1(Aug. 1972), shownhere in pencil.

Demon ©2005 DC Comics. IronMan, Thing ©2005 MarvelCharacters, Inc.

44

Near myths

YY

Gallery 2 Myth-IllogicAl ARtJ

ack Kirby used established myths and legends as the basis for much of the work he did incomics, but he rarely was faithful in his adaptations. From those big circles on Thor’s chest,

to his imagery of the Grim Reaper riding on a pair of airborne skis, nothing was terribly sacredin his interpretations of characters who, throughout time, have held a certain almost religious

significance to society. Take the following pieces for example; while you’ll get a hint of thesource material they’re inspired by, chances are no one before (or after) Kirby ever envisionedthese characters quite the same—or as dramatically. �

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(this page) Jimmy Olsen #144, page20 (Dec. 1971)Kirby’s great wrap-up to the EvilFactory storyline included his FourthWorld explanation for the Loch Nessbeastie of legend. What a beautifullydesigned Nessie he did too!

(page 49) Forever People #9, page 21(June 1972)A séance, a liberal dose of NewGenesis technology, and a controversialhandling of Deadman combined with apowerfully updated version on theFrankenstein monster to give theyoung gods of Supertown an explosiveKirby struggle. If Kirby had any inklingthat his beloved Fourth World serieswas fast coming to an end, one wouldn’tknow it from the power in his penciling.Jack would also use Frankenstein-likecharacters at DC in The Demon #11-13and Jimmy Olsen #142-143.

(page 50) Kamandi #7, page 19 (July 1973)As a change of pace after the death ofFlower in #6, Jack drew a parody ofKing Kong for a fun-filled followingissue. (This was Steve Sherman’sexplanation from the letter’s page in#12 anyway.) The last line in the comicis great Kirby tongue-in-cheek humor.(Look it up—it’s magic!) This showshow close in some ways (but not inothers) Jack was to the movie!

(page 51) Sandman #7, page 12(1975)Even everyone’s favorite myth SantaClaus got his turn under Kirby, albeit inone of the handful of ’70s stories hedidn’t plot. Kirby’s usual dynamism isoften present, though by Kirby stan-dards ol’ Santa is conservativelydrawn. But isn’t the pencil work nice!

(page 52) Black Panther #6, cover(Nov. 1977)The Panther book was action frombeginning to end. And again, he was inthe thick of it from page 1 of his sixthissue. Involved in a plot to find the leg-endary Cup of Youth, you can bet whatthe Panther found was uniquely Kirbyand had little to do with any ‘real’ myth.

(page 53) Eternals #5, page 11 (Nov. 1976)Did Jack introduce this version of theGreco-Roman gods to replace thosehe’d introduced a decade earlier inThor? Or did he just like ’em and intypical Kirby fashion, ignored the past sohe could have fun with an alternativeversion? Either way, Olympus, Zeus,Athena and Mercury were great spring-boards for Kirby’s imagination!

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Neither Stan Lee nor Jack Kirby really created the Mighty Thor. They simplyborrowed him from mythology.

“One of our established titles, Journey into Mystery, needed a shot in the arm,” Leeonce wrote, “so I picked Thor, the Norse God of Thunder, to headline the book.After writing an outline depicting the story and the characters I had in mind, Iasked my brother, Larry, to write the script because I didn’t have time. Alwaysdependable, Larry did a great job on it and it was only natural for me to assign

Thor The Thunderer54

Retrospective

by Will Murray

the penciling to Jack Kirby, who drew it as though he had spenthis whole life in Asgard, the home of the gods.”

“Well, I knew the Thor legends very well,” Kirby allowed,“but I wanted to modernize them. I felt that might be a newthing for comics, talking the old legends and modernizing them.I believe I accomplished that. Thor is an ancient myth—what Idid was make him salable once again.”

The year was 1962. Lee and Kirby were busily convertingfantasy anthology comic books like Strange Tales and Journey intoMystery into super-hero showcases to build a new line followingthe surprise success of their Fantastic Four. Lee had been Marvel’seditor since 1941, while Kirby had recently returned after longestrangement from the comics house for which he had co-createdCaptain America two decades before.

“I knew that they were lacking super-heroes,” Kirby recalled.“Nobody had really done many in many a year. After the war thesuper-heroes kind of faded, but of course after a certain amountof time it was time to bring them back. So I brought back thesuper-heroes. And that’s where all your Fantastic Fours comefrom. That’s where Thor comes from. I took anything powerfulthat could sell a magazine—and I did.”

Which of the two men first had the inspiration that a Norselegend could be adapted to comic books is unknown. The popular-ity of Steve Reeves’ Hercules movies may have given either one theidea. Comments both Lee and Kirby later made seem to suggestthat their thinking began with Hercules. Yet both Lee and Kirbyclaimed to have been struck by inspirational Nordic lightning first.

“Thor I got from the Germanic legends, the Norwegianmyths,” claimed Kirby. “I would take a lot of the stories from thelegends. So instead of doing Hercules I would use Thor becausenobody used the Norwegian legends.”

“Nobody had ever done anything with the Norse legends,”Lee asserted. “We had the Hulk who was the strongest livinghuman on Earth, and then we even had the Thing who wasalmost as strong. I wanted to do a new book and I said to Jack,‘Who can we get that’s even more impressive? ...After a while itoccurred to me that the only way to make something bigger andstronger than the strongest creature on Earth was to create some-one who is outside of our little ol’ home planet.”

The way Lee told it, reviving Thor was a creative struggle inwhich Jack Kirby was uncharacteristically bereft of ideas.

“I figured the only thing to do is get a god,” Lee continued.“There’s nothing more impressive than a god. So Jack said, ‘Yeah,that sounds good.’ So I started to think—the Roman gods, theGreek gods, a lot had been done with them... we’d all seenHercules and the others, but people don’t know much about theNorse gods... including me. So I started looking them up andwhen I got to Thor I just thought, gee, a guy who is the god ofthunder and lightning—that’s impressive.... So, when I re-readthe saga of Thor, God of Thunder, and his mighty hammer, Iknew I had found our next super-hero!

“I told Jack about it and when I saw the way he drew Thor itwas just wonderful... the outfit he gave him... the hammer. I wantedhim to have that hammer, and I came up with a plot so he could.”

Jack Kirby recalled it quite differently.“I came up with Thor,” he said flatly. “I knew the Thor leg-

ends very well.... I came up with Thor because I’ve always been ahistory buff. I know all about Thor and Balder and Mjolnir, thehammer. Nobody ever bothered with that stuff except me. I lovedit in high school and I loved it in my pre-high school days... that’swhat kept me in school—it wasn’t the mathematics and it wasn’tthe geography; it was history.”

“As far as I can remember,” insisted Lee on another occa-sion, “Norse mythology always turned me on. There was some-thing about those mighty, horn-helmeted Vikings and their talesof Asgard, of Ragnarok, of the Aesir, the Fire Demons, andimmortal, eternal Asgard, home of the gods. If ever there was arich lode of material into which Marvel might dip, it was there—and we would mine it.”

Perhaps the absolute truth lay in the middle. After all, Thorhad been around for centuries. But where Thor was concerned,

Kirby had a track record. TheNordic thunderer had been pop-ping up in his stories since the1940s, most often as a villain. Hisearliest mythological creation,Mercury, was renamed “Hurricane,Son of Thor” when the characterswitched from Red Raven Comics toCaptain America in 1941. A yearlater, Simon and Kirby’s Sandmanbattled a wild-bearded foe callinghimself Thor in “The Villain fromValhalla.” And there were others.

“I did a version of Thor for DCin the ’50s before I did him forMarvel,” Kirby pointed out. “Hehad a red beard but he was a leg-endary figure, which I liked. I likedthe figure of Thor at DC and I creat-ed Thor at Marvel because I wasforever enamored of legends. I knewall about these legends which is whyI knew about Balder, Heimdall, andOdin. I tried to update Thor andput him in a super-hero costume.He looked great in it and everybodyloved him, but he was still Thor.”

That story, “The MagicHammer,” appeared in Tales of theUnexpected #16, dated August,1957—exactly five years before theMarvelized Thor debuted in Journeyinto Mystery #83, August 1962. The1957 Thor was clad in the tradition-al bearskins and horned helmet.Otherwise the only similarity lay inthe hammer—Kirby carried thedesign over unchanged.

Yet Lee was nostranger to the

swashbuckler either. Hisfavorite actor, Errol Flynn, was renowned for his

costume epics. A decade before Lee had scripted an Arthuriancomic called The Black Knight, which he considered the highpoint of his pre-Marvel Age work.

“When I was a kid,” he pointed out, “I fantasized aboutRobin Hood, King Arthur, King Richard—even CharlesLindbergh. You imagine you’re going to do great things. I sawErrol Flynn movies and I wanted to be Errol Flynn. Every time Ileft the theater, I had a crooked little smile on my face and Iswashbuckled down the street. Until I was ten years old, I wishedthat I had a sword by my side.”

Either way, neither man was about to do a direct adaptationof the Norse thunderer.

“Before staring the series,” Lee told one reader, “we stuffedourselves to the gills with Norse mythology, as well as almost every

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(above) Charlton’s Out ofThis World #11 (Feb.1959) contained a SteveDitko story featuring ayoung Viking named Thorwho discovers a magichammer in a cave—morethan three years beforeMarvel’s Thor debut!

(previous page) A simplyspectacular Thor commis-sion from 1975.

Thor TM & ©2005 Marvel Characters,Inc. Out of This World © CharltonComics.

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Demon #16 (Jan. 1974) wasn’t supposed to be the last issue, at least as far as Jack knew when he drew these pencils forits final page. Kirby clearly had in mind a theme for the next issue, as evidenced by the final panel. We can only wonderwhat new spin the Vampire myth would have received in that story from the delightfully unpredictable Kirby imagination.

KIRBY COLLECTOR #44KIRBY’S MYTHOLOGICAL CHARACTERS! Coverage ofDEMON, THOR, & GALACTUS, interview with KIRBY, MARKEVANIER, pencil art galleries of the Demon and other mytholog-ical characters, two never-reprinted BLACK MAGIC stories, inter-view with Kirby Award winner DAVID SCHWARTZ and F4screenwriter MIKE FRANCE, and more! Kirby cover inked byMATT WAGNER!

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