14Top of FormSearch:Bottom of FormAqeedah of Ashairah and Maturidiyah defendedRefutation of Ibn Qudamah [rh] Article is found on202 https://aqeedah.wordpress.com/2006/09/01/asharis-believe-quran-is-created-and-ibn-qudamas-refutation/

About 100 101 102 201 202https://aqeedah.wordpress.com/2006/09/01/asharis-believe-quran-is-created-and-ibn-qudamas-refutation/ TextsA REFUTATION OF ALLEGATIONS OF IBN QUDAMA AGAINST MAJORITY OF AHLUSSUNNAH [ ASHAIRAH+MATURIDIYAH]Asharis Believe Quran Is Created And Ibn QudamasRefutationPosted onSeptember 1, 2006. Filed under:202 - Advanced Asma wa Sifaat|

ALLEGATION#1The Asharis believe that Allahs Speech subsists in His Essence and is without sound or letters, and therefore, Allah could not have said Alif-Laam-Meem.The Mutazilah believed that the Quran is Allahs Speech; and Allahs Speech is created.The Asharis believed that the Quran is not Allahs Speech, so while Allahs Speech is uncreated, the Quran remains created.ANS: Ashairah and Maturidiah believe that Quran is of two types. 1] AL CALAM AN NAFSI. 2] AL CALA, AL LAFZI. THE FRMER IS UNCREATED ATTRIBUTE RAITHER ESSENTIAL ATTRIBUTE OF THE DIVINE ESSENCE. THEB LATTER IS AN ACT OR A DOING OF ALL-H HENCE CREATED. ACCORDING TO ASAIRAH AND MATURIDIAH AL CALAM AN NAFSI AND AL CALAM AL LAFZA BOTH ARE QURAN. SO ATLEAST THIS ARGUMENT FALLS DOWN.al-Bayjuri the Ashari theologian says in his Sharh Jawharat al-Tawheed:it is still only permitted to say The Quran is emergent (or created) in a classroom settingIbn al-Jawzi says in al-Muntadham of al-Ashari:ANS: This is because people who do not understand the nature of the problem may not be misguided.BUT THIS IS HIS PERSONAL VIEW. NEITHER ALL ASHARITES NOR ALL MATURIDITES AGREE ON THE ISSUE.ASHARITE AND MATURIDITE CONSTITUTE OF MAJORITY OF SUNNIS AND IF SOME OF THEM HOLD DIFFERENT UNIQUE VIEWS IT IS A FLAW AND A FALLACY TO ASCRIBE IT TO ALL ASHARITES AND MATURIDITES.

Some of the theological views are so delicate that it is difficult even for a scholar to understand them unless and other wise he has studied the subject roperly. We do differ and opine that things must be taught to general public ,and complex issues must be tried to be simplified.ALLIGATION#2The people never differed that this audible Quran is Allahs Speech, and that Gabriel descended with it upon the Prophet Allahs peace and blessings be upon him. The reliable imams declared that the Quran is eternal, while the Mutazila claimed that it is created. Al-Ashari then agreed with the Mutazila that the Quran is created and said: This is not Allahs Speech. Rather, Allahs Speech is an Attribute subsisting in Allahs Essence. It did not descend on the Prophet, nor is it audible. ANS: This is a mixture of incorrect allegations. Quran whether it be An Nafsi or Al Lafzi both are speeches of ALL-H. AL CALAM AN NAFSI is audiable either directly as according to Ashairah or indirectly as according to Maturidiah.No Ashari and no Maturidi says Quran is not a Speech of ALL-H. One may ask IBN AL QUDAMAH Do you believe Quran is separate from ALL-H and Uncreated?? If so then it ceases to be a Divine Attribute. Ashairah initially believed that AL CALAM AN NAFSI is Audiable [ directly] but Mauridiah do not accept this.S o the dispute is over the direct or in direct audibility. Allegation#3Ibn al-Jawzi would often say on the pulpit:The heretics (the Asharis) claim; i) there is none in the Heavens, ii) neither is there Quran in the Mushaf, and iii) nor is there a Prophet in the grave; your three shameful facets (al-Dhayl).ANS:- WHEN THERE ARE AUTHENTIC BOOKE OF ASHIRAH AND MATURIDIYAH PRESENT ,NO ONE HAS RIGHT TO QUOTE IBN AL JAUZI. WE REJECT THESE FALSE ALLIGATIONS OF IBN AL JAUZI , THOUGH WE HOPE HE WAS MISTAKEN. HE WAS UN ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE ASHARITE AND MATURIDITE VIEWS. ASHAIRAH AND MATURIDIYAH BOTH JOINTLY BELIEVE THAT CALAM AL LAFZI IS IN MUS-HAF AND IN THE TABLET. A ALLIGATION THAT PROPHET IS NOT IN THE GRAVE IN MADINA AL MUNAUVARAH IS FALSE. ONE MUST HAVE CITED SOME AUTHENTIC ASHARITE AND MATURIDITE SOURCES. WE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT SUCH ALLEGATION CAN BE TRUE. MAY ALL-H FORGIVE IBN JAUZI FOR HIS FALSE ALLEGATION AGAINST ASHAIRAH AND MATURIDIYAH. THERE ARE MANY THINGS IN HEAVENS. HOW EVER ALL-H [KHALIQ] DOETH NOT EXIST IN HIS MAKHLUQAT, NEITHER IN ALL MAKHLUQAT NOR IN SOME MAKHLUQAT.NOTE: ONE WHO AGREE WITH IBN QUDAMA MUST HAVE TO SAY ALL-H IS IN HIS CREATION [SINCE HEAVENS ARE CREATIONS OF ALL-H] OR HE OR HE MUST HAVE TO SAY HEAVENS ARE UNCREATED [ SINCE ALL-H CANNOT BE IN HIS CREATIONS]. IF WE HAVE ADOPTED THE STYLE OF IBN AL QUDAMA WE HAVE ACCUSED HIM OF ANY ONE OF THE ABOVE BELIEF BUT WE PRAY MAY ALL-H FORGIVE HIM FOR HIS THIS KIND OF ACT. IBN QUDAMA CANNOT SCAPE FROM THIS DELLIMMA .ALLEGATION#4Ibn al-Jawzi writes,while complaining about certain Asharites indoctrinating the masses with the Asharite dogma: A group of Persian (aajim) heretics arrived in Baghdad and mounted the pulpits to sermon the masses. They would claim, in most of their gatherings: There is no Speech of Allah on this earth, and is the mushaf anything but paper, galls and vitriol?ANS:=AL CALAM AL LAFZI IS PRESENT IN TABLET AND ON EARTH. NO AUTHENTIC WORK OF ASHAIRAH AND MATURIDIYAH STATES SUCH BELIEVES. NO ONE KNOW WHO THESE PEOPLE WERE AND IF THEY CLAIMED TO BE ASHARITE OR MATURIDITE , WHAT WAS THE RESPONSE OF ASHARITE AND MATURIDITES. WE THINK THEY WERE HERETIC BECAUSE NO ASHARITE AND NO MATURIDITE CAN SAY SUCH THINGS . One must refer to authentic Asharite sources and trustworthy Maturidite sources instead of Ibn Jauzi and Ibn Qudama ,since they are their opponent and in a court of law one have to hear both sides before a judgement.ALLEGATION#5 Allah is not in the Heavens, and the slave-girl to whom the Prophet said: Where is Allah? was dumb and therefore pointed towards the sky, meaning: He is not from the idols worshipped on this earth.ANS:= AHLUSSUNNAH VAL JAMAA-AH BELIEVE THAT ALL-H IS BEYOND ALL POSSIBLE CREATIONS. IF HEAVENS ARE CREATED THEN ALL-H IS EITHER IN HIS SOME CREATIONS , OR ALL-H IS EVEN BEYOND THOSE CREATIONS WHICH INCLUDE HEAVEN. NO ONE BELIEVE THAT ALL-H IS IN HIS SOME CREATION. NOW EITHER HEAVENS ARE EITHER ATTRIBUTES OF GOD AND UNCREATED OR ALL-H IS IN SOME OF HIS CREATION. THE EXPRESSIONS LIKE ALL-H IS IN HEAVEN NEEDS TO BE INTERPRETED SUCH THAT IT DOES NOT IMPLY ALL-H IS IN SOME OF HIS CREATION, AND IT ALSO DOES NOT IMPLY HEAVEN ARE UNCREATED , HENCE DIVINE ATTRIBUTE.WE BELIEVE THAT THE SAHABIYAH [ BOUND MADE] RD DID SHEW THAT ALL-H IS BEYOND UNIVERSES AND OUTWORD. OUTWORD IN THE SENSE OF TRANSCIDENCE AND BEYONDNESS. NOT IN THE SENSE THAT ALL-H IS IN SOME OF HIS CREATIONS CALLED HEAVENS.NOTE := ALL-H IS IN NO CREATION, AND NO HEAVEN IS GHAIR MAKHLU:Q.ALLEGATION#6

They then said: Where are the letterists, who claim that the Quran is composed of letters and sound? Rather, the Quran is only an expression of Jibril! They continued in this vein, until the sacredness of the Quran diminished from the hearts of many.ANS: WHERE WERE THE LITERALISTS THEN?? WHY DID THEY NOT CHALLENGED THESE PEOPLE FOR A DEBATE??THE TRUE ASHAIRAH AND MATURIDIYAH BELIEVE THAT QURAN IN THE MEANING AL CALAM AL LAFZI IS COMPOSED OF LETTERS WORDS, SENTENCES, CONSTRUCTIONS ,AYAT ETC. ONE WHO SAY QURAN AL CALAM AL LAFZI IS AN EXPRESSION OF ANY GHAIR ALL-H SAY JIBRIL [AS] OR HOLY PROPHET [SAVS] IS NOT A MUSLIM. IT IS DIRECTLY CREATED BY ALL-H, WITH OUT ANY CREATED SUPPOSITUM OR CREATED ESSENCE WHETHER JIBRIL OR HOLY PROPHET OR ELSE. THESE PEOPLE WERE CETAINLY NEITHER ASHAIRAH NOR MATURIDIYAH, BUT SOME HERETIC. ONE MUST CONSULT AUTHENTIC WORKS OF ASHAIRAH AND MATURIDIAYAH INSTEAD OF SUCH HERETICS. NOTE:QURAN IS CERTAINLY NOT AN EXPRESSION OF JIBRIL . IT IS EITHER CALAM AN NAFSI AN ETERNAL AND ESSENTIAL ATTRIBUTE OR AL CALAM AL LAFZI AN ACT OR AN ACTIVE ATTRIBUTE TEMPORAL AND CREATED DIRECTLY WITH OUT ANY CREATED SUPPOSITUM WHAT SO EVER.ALLEGATION#7He then mentions at length, the arguments for the orthodox approach towards the Quran, and commends Imam Ahmad b. Hanbal for his rigid stance on the issue, which united the Muslims on one belief: the Quran, which is contained in the Mushaf, is the uncreated Speech of Allah. He then denigrates al-Ashari, saying: Then, people did not differ in this issue, until there appeared Ali b. Ismail al-Ashari, who at first, held the beliefs of the Mutazilites. It then occurred to him, as he claimed, that Allahs Speech subsists in the Divine Essence (sifah qaimah bil-that). His claim, therefore, necessitated that the Quran we have is created.ANS: IT IS INCORRECT TO ASCRIBE TO IMAM AHMAD BIN HANBAL RD , THAT QURAN WHICH EXIST EXTERNALLY DISTINCT FROM THE DIVINE ESSENCE IS UNCREATED. THE DISPUTE OF MUTAZILITES AND IMAM AHMAD BIN HANBAL RH IS MISUNDERSTOOD BY A NUMBER OF HANAB-LAH.ANY ONE WHO CHARGE IMAM AHMAD RH IS A HERETIC. WE DO NOT KNOW WHO WERE THESE PEOPLE AND IF THEY DID CLAIM TO BE ASHAIRAH OR MATURIDIYAH, THEY CANNOT BE SO SINCE NO ASHAIRHA AND NO MATURIDIYAH CAN ACCUSE IMAM AHMAD AS SUCH. AT MOST ONE MAY OR MUST INTERPRET HIS DIFFICULT EXRESSIONS. EVERY THING STOPS HERE.SOME COMMENTS:=A]If Quran is uncreated then there are the following logically possible cases:=1] Quran subsists in Divine Essence. 2]Quran is Identical to Divine Essence, 3] Quran IS NEITHER Identical to Divine Essence NOR Subsists in It.In the first case it cannot be sound ,divisible etc. In the second case It is implied that ALL-H HIMSELF IS COMPOSED OF LETTERS ,SOUNDS etc [AL AYAZ BILLAHI TAALA]. In the third case Quran is distinct and separate from ALL-H.If so then it cannot be A Divine Attribute but a temporal and not eternal thing. Ibn Qudama has to chose any one of the stated above options. A very very difficult choice indeed. 2] The question is := Does Quran Subsist In Itself [i.e Is Quran PerSe Subsistent]. If it is then does in Subsist In Divine Essence. If So then It Is A Hypostasis . Islam negates the Christian Dogma Of Personal or Impersonal Hypostases. If It Does not SUBSIST/EXIST In Divine Essence then It Does Exist SEPARATE From Divine Essence. In this Case it is A Substance.If a Substance then NOT an Attribute. If Not an Attribute then Not the Speech of Deity [ALL-H]. If it is not Per Se Subsistent then either it Subsist in Divine Essence or Nor . If Yes then this is what ALL ASHAIRHA AND MATURIDIYAH SAY. If not them it Subsists in Ghair ALL-H. In this case it Ceases to be Speech Of ALL-H. Allegation#8Ibn Qudama says in his refutation of the Asharis on the topic of Quran:

ANS:= LET IT BE SEEN WHAT IBN QUDAMA [RH] COMMENTS:=Allegation#9* Some of our [Hanbali] companions often ask us about the debate that took place between me and some of the heretics (i.e. Asharis)* Asharis claim that the Speech of Allah the Quran is one whole entity which is indivisible, for anything eternal must be indivisible, as they claim. Ibn Qudamah responds to this saying, that their belief implies, that the Torah, the Bible and the Quran are all the same, and the one who memorises a verse has memorised the whole Quran, and that Allahs prohibitions are the same as what he permits, etc.

ANS:= AL CALAM AN NAFISI IS ABSOLUTE ,SIMPLE, ETERNAL, ESSENTIAL, NOT ACTIVE. BUT AL CALAM AL LAFZI ARE DIFFERENT . EACH ONE OF CALAM AL LAFZI IS CONNECTED WITH CALAM AN NAFSI DIRECTLY. SO THESE OBJECTIONS FAILS TO BE VALID. RELATIVE TO AL CALAM AL LAFZI NOUNLY QURAN , AL CALAM AN NAFSI IS QURAN, RELATIVE TO ANY NON QURANIC SPEECH OF ALL-H SAY TAURAH, IT IS TAURAH [TORAH]. *Plurality of Calam Al Lafzi does not implieth plurality of Calam An Nafsi. Also Al Calam Al Lafzi is collection [MAHJU] of ALFAZ AND MEANINGS and they are connected to AL CALAM AN NAFSI. So all these objections become invalid.NOTE1: Does IBN QUDAMA NOT believe that the Speech of Allah the Quran is not one Attribute which is divisible, not eternal since anything Eternal must be indivisible, as they . Ibn Qudamah IS RESPONDED , that HIS belief implies, that QURAN IS SEPARATE FROM ALLAH,DISTINCT FROM ALL-H AND DIVINE INCOMMUNICABLE TO ALL-H,OUT OF POWER OF ALL-H SINCE ANY THING UNCREATED IS BEYOND OMNIPOTENCE. Note2: this is the most repeated argument against Ashairah and maturidiyah. But this doeth shew that all these rivals do fail to understand their belief.

* Asharis say that if Allah speaks with sound and letters, it implies that Allah has a tongue, a throat and lungs, since this is the only way one may speak. Ibn Qudamah says, the stones and trees of Makkah would say Salam to the Prophet SallAllahu alaihi wasallam without any of that, and likewise ones hands will bear witness against him on the day of judgement, without the need of any tongue or throat etc. Moreover, by the same token, they should also deny that Allah is all hearing and seeing, as one cannot hear except through air waves hitting the air-drums, nor can one see except through lights hitting the retina.ANS:= ALL-H CAN SPEAK WITH LETTERS AND WORDS BUT THESE ARE CREATIONS SINCE THEY DO NOT AND CAN NOT SUBSIST IN DIVINE ESSENCE. THE PROBLEMS IS NOT OF DIVINE ORGANS SINCE ALL-H IS BEYOND ORGANS STATED ABOVE, THE PROBLEM IS THAT WHETHER ALL-H IS A LOCUS OF NON ETERNAL ACTS AND EVENTS. IF ALL-H SPEAKETH WITH TEMPORAL EVENTS AND ACTS THEN THESE WORDS EXPRESSIONS, LETTERS , SENTENCES SPEACHES ETC CANNOT BE ASSOCIATED WITH THE DIVINE ESSENCE.NOTE: IF ALL-H CAN SPEAK WITH OUT ORGANS OF SPEECH EVEN THEN IF THE SPOKEN SPEECH IS NOT ASSOCIATED WITH DIVINE ESSENCE THEN IT IS NOT A DIVINE ATTRIBUTE, IF IT IS ASSOCIATED WITH DIVINE ESSENCE THEN NON ETERNAL ASSOCIATES WITH DIVINE ESSENCE I.E ALL-H. DO WE CHARGE IBN QUDAMA AS SUCH??ALLEGATION#10* Ibn Qudamah says that Asharis belief implies that for one to recite the Quran in his Salah, in fact renders his Salah null and void, because the Quran is actually the speech of Jibril, as they claim.ANS:= THIS IS JUST A FALSE ALLEGATION. QURAN AL LAFZI IS NOT AN EXPRESSION OF ANY CREATURE WHAT SO EVER, BUT A DIRECT CREATION OF ALL-H CONNECTED WITH DIVINE ESSENTIAL ATTRIBUTE OF DIVINE ESSENCE. SO THE OBJECTIONS OF IBN QUDAMA FALLS DOWN.WE CHALLENGE THOSE WHO SEOND IBN AL QUDAMA TO QUOTE WITH OUT ANY MISINTERPRETION FROM AUTHENTIC ASHARITE AND MATURIDITE WORKS BEFORE REPEATING IBN QUDAMA S FALSE ALLEGATIONS.* He says: There is no dispute amongst all the Muslims that anyone who rejects a verse from the Quran, or a word, which is agreed upon, or even a letter which is agreed upon, is a Kafir Whereas al-Ashari rejects the entire Quran and says: none of that is the Quran, rather it is the speech of JibrilANS: MAY THE CURSE OF ALL-H BE UPON HIM WHO HAS INVENTED THIS FALSE ALLEGATION. PLEASE CONSULT AUTHENTIC ASHARITE AND MATURIDITE WORKS , AND DO NOT BELIEVE ON FALSE ACCUSATIONS REPORTED BY IBN AL QUDAMAH.ALLEGATION#11* He says: What is amazing is that they are not bold enough to manifest their belief in public, nor do they explicitly state it except when they are alone. Even if they were the rulers, or governors of countries, and you were to attribute this belief to them, they would detest it and condemn it, and become obstinate. They would only pretend to honor the Quran respect the Mushaf, and stand up upon seeing it, whereas when they are alone they say: There is nothing in it but paper and ink, what else is there in it? And this is from the actions of Zanadiqah ANS:= THE ONLY PROPER ANSWER IS := ALL THESE ALLEGATIONS ARE FALSE. Believes of Asharites and Maturidites are open secrets, and nothing is hidden. ALLEGATION#12

* One of them said to Ibn Qudamah: I affirm that this Mushaf is actually the Quran, but it is not the eternal Quran, to which Ibn Qudamah replied: So, do we have two Qurans?ANS:=THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF QURAN. 1] THAT IS SUSTAINED IN DIVINE ESSENCE AND IS ASSOCIATED WITH DIVINE ESSENCE.2] ONE THAT IS NEITHER ASSOCIATED WITH DIVINE ESSENCE NOR IS SUSTAINED IN DIVINE ESSENCE.DOETH IBN AL QUDAMA BELIEVE THAT THERE IS NO QURAN ASSOCIATED WITH ALL-H AND HIS ESSENCE?? IF SO THEN HE MUST HAVE TO ADMIT THAT HE DOES NOT THAT QURAN IS NOT AN ATTRIBUTE OF ALL-H SINCE IF A THING IS NOT AN ATTRIBUTE OF ALL-H IT IS NOT ASSOCIATED WITH DIVINE ESSENCE.IF NO THEN THERE ARE CERTAINLY TWO TYPES OF QURAN 1] ASSOCIATED WITH DIVINE ESSENCE OF ALL-H . 2] NOT ASSOCIATED WITH DIVINE ESSENCE OF ALL-H. FURTHER IF A HUMAN BEING RECITETH HOLY QURAN, DOES IT MEAN THAT ALL-H HIMSELF IS RECITING QURAN. IF YES THENIT MEANS ALL-H IS SPEAKING QURAN THROUGH THE TONGUE OF A HUMAN BEING ,EVEN IF THE RECITER IS A HERETIC OR EVEN A NON MUSLIM. IS THIS NOT WHAT IBN QUDAMA HIDING, BUT IS DIRECTLY IMPLICATED FROM WHAT HE HAD SAID. [FOR TECHNICAL REASONS WE HAVE USED PRESENT TENSE FOR IBN QUDAMA, MAY ALL-H FORGIVE HIM FOR HIS FALSE ALLEGATIONS] . NOTE : AHMAD RADA\RAZA OF BANS BARAILY[UNITED PROVINCES ,IDIAN SUBCONTINENT] WAS INSPIRED BY THIS ARGUMENT AND BEGAN TO BELIEVE THAT CALAM AL LAFZI AND CALAM AN NAFIS BOTH ARE ONE AND SAME. SEE MALFUZAT PART IV.WE REJECT BOTH OF THESE PERSONS.

ALLEGATION#13 Some of our [Hanbali] companions said: You (the Asharis) are the rulers and the governors over Islamic countries, so what prevents you from making your belief manifest to the common folk?* He said: We do not know of a sect from the heretics who hide their beliefs, and who are not bold enough to manifest them, except the Zanadiqah and the Asharis.ANS:= BELIEVES OF ASHARITES AND MATURIDITES ARE OPEN SECRET AND NO THINGN IS HIDING . ONE HAVE JUST TO STUDY THEIR AUTHENTIC WORKS. HOW EVER IT MAY BE THE CASE THAT SOME HERETIC DID LIED TO IBN QUDAMAH , AND DUE TO HIS ENIMITY OF ASHAIRAH AND MATURIDIAH HE DID NOT CONSULT THEM DIRECTLY. NOT EVERY ONE WHO CLAIMS TO BE ASHARITE [MATURIDITE] IS ASHARITE [MATURIDITE]. NOTE :- HOW EVER WE DISLIKE TO STATE BUT IBN QUDAMA HAS LEFT US NO OPTION EXCEPT ALL THESE ACCUSATIONS ARE FALSE, AND HE IS SPEAKING FALSELY. ALLEGATION#14* He said: His belief (i.e. al-Asharis) is similar to that of the Mutazilah without doubt, except that al-Ashari wants to deceive. So he states his belief which appears to be agreeing with the beliefs of the people of truth. He then gives an explanation to his belief with a Mutazili twist.ANS:- THERE ARE CERTAIN DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MUTAZILAH AND THEIR RIVALS LIKE ASHARITES AND MATURIDITES.1]MUTAZILITES DO NOT BELIEVE IN CALAM AN NAFSI, WHILE ASHARITE AND MATURIDTE BELIEVE IN CALAM AN NAFSI.2] MUTAZILITES DO NOT BELIEVE THAT CALAM AL LAFZI INDICATES [DAAL] CALAM AN NAFSI , WHILE ASHARITES AND MATURIDITERS DO.3]MUTAZILITES BELEAVE THAT ACT OF SPEAKING IS JUST THE ACT OF CREATION , WHILE ACCORDING TO ASHARITES AND MATURIDITES ACT OF SPEAKING IS CREATION OF THE ACT PLUS THE ACT OF INDICATION [DALA:LAH].4] MUTAZILAH BELIEVE THAT ACTS OF HUMAN BEING ARE NOT CREATED BUT TEMPORAL, WHILE ASHARITES AND MATURIDITES BELIEVE THAT ACTS AND DOINGS OF CREATED SUPPOSITUMS EG HUMAN BEINGS, JINN BEINGS, ANGEL BEINGS , SHAYATIN , ANIMAL BEINGS, NATURAL ACTS ALL ARE CREATED.WE DO NOT LIKE TO MENSION BUT IT IS IMPERATIVE TO SAY THAT IBN QADAMA AND MUTAZILAH AGREE THAT QURAN IS DISTINCT AND SEPARATE FROM DIVINE ESSENCE I.E ALL-H. HE SHOULD HAVE SEEN HIS OWN RESEMBLENCE WITH MUAZILAH.ALLEGATION#15* He says: The reality of the Ashari doctrine is that there is no God in the heavens, nor is there a Quran on this earth, and nor is Muhammad a messenger of God. Ibn Fuwarrak was killed by the great ruler Ibn Subuktakin for claiming that the Prophet SallAllahu alaihi wa-sallam was only a messenger when he was alive, and he isnt a messenger anymore after his death.ANS: ALL THE OBJECTIONS ARE ANSWERED EXCEPT THE LAST OBJECTION. IBN FAUVARAC WAS INCORRECT ON THIS VIEW AND NO ASHARITE AND NPO MATURIDITE ACCEPT HIS VIEW. SO JUST TO POINT FEW PERSONS OUT OF A HUGE MAJIRITY IS JUST A DELIBERATE FALLACY OF IBN QADAMA.MAY ALL-H FORGIVE HIM. The expression ALL-H IS IN HEAVEN REQUIRETH INTERPRETATION JUST LIKE THE EXPRESSION DEITY IS EVERY WHERE REQUIRETH AN INTERPRETATION. SINCE ALL-H CAN NEITHER BE IN SOME OF HIS CREATION, NOR IN ALL CREATIONS , SINCE HE IS TRANSCEDENT AND BEYOND [ MA VARA UL VARA BIZZAT] ALLEGATION#15

* He says: What is amazing is that their leader (i.e. Abul-Hasan al-Ashari) who established their beliefs was a man not known for his religion or piety, nor was he known for any of the Sacred sciences. In fact, he belongs to no science except the science of blameworthy Kalam. All the while they acknowledge that he spent 40 years adhering to Mutazili doctrine, and then pretended to have retracted from it, however, nothing could be seen from him after his repentance except this Bidah.ANS:= THESE ARE THE WORST ALLEGAQTIONS OF THE WORLD ,OF ALL TIMES. KNOWLEDGE OF IMAM ASHARI WAS GREAT, AND HE WAS A IMAM OF THEOLOGIANS, A GREAT PHILOSOPHER AND A DEFENDER OF SUUNISM. HE HAS WRITTEN A NUMBER OF BOOKS AND SOME OF THEM STILL EXIST. A DETAIL REFUTATION OF THIS ALLEGATION SHALL SOON BE PRESENTED INSHA ALL-H. BUT THIS WAS A COMMON BELIEF OF MAJORITY OF SUNNIS. CALAM AN NAFSI IS NOT IONVENTED BY IMAM ASHARI. IMAM MATURIDI WHO WAS HIS COMTEMPORY , AND NEVER KNEW HIM ALSO HELD THIS VIEW, A PROOF THAT IMAM ASHARI DID NOT INVENT THIS BELIEF. ALLEGATION#16al-Saffarini al-Hanbali says in his Sharh of his own Athari creed:In conclusion, the Mutazilites are in agreement with the Asharites, while the Asharites are in agreement with the Mutazilites, that this Quran contained within the two covers of the Mushaf is created and anew. The only difference between the two factions is that the Mutazila did not affirm any other Speech for Allah except this (the Quran, which they thought was created), whereas the Asharites affirmed al-Kalam al-Nafsi (self-speech/talking to oneself/inner-speech) subsisting in Allahs essence. Whereas the Mutazilites say, the Speech of Allah is created (and not subsisting in Allah). The Asharis do not consider it (the Quran) the Speech of Allah. Yes, they call it the Speech of Allah, but only metaphorically, and that is the belief of the majority of their predecessors.ANS: IBN QUDAMA BELIEVE THAT THERE IS NO QURAN THAT SUBSISTS AND SUSTAINS IN DIVINE ESSENCE .IN THIS REGARD HE AGREES WITH MUTAZILAH.HE BELIEVES THAT SME THING SEPARATE OR DISTINCT FROM ALL-H IS UNCREATED. IN THIS REGARD HE DOES AGREE WITH PHILOSOPHERS.CALAM AL LAFZI IS IS A REAL QURAN RATHER A AL LAFZ AL MUSHRAR-C. THIS DISCUSSION MAY BE SEEN IN AUTHENTIC WORKS OF ASHAIRAH AND MATURIDIYAH. IF IBN QUDAMA BELIEVES THAT ALL-H IS LOCUS OF TEMPORALS THEN HE AGREES WITH CARRAMIAH\KARRAMIAH. IT SEEMS HE WAS PONIER OF THEM?????NOTE:= THE WORD MATAPHOR IS USED IN THE SECONDARY SENSE NOT IN ITS PRIMERY SENSE. A DETAIL DISCUSSION MAY BE SEEN IN SHAR-H AL AQAID TAFTAZANI [RH].Conclusion:1) the Asharis believe that the Quran that we have which is contained in the Mushaf is in fact created, because Allah Speaks without sound or letters.ANS: THIS IS CORRECT AND MUS-HAF [COPIES] ARE DISTINCT FROM QURAN WHICH IS SUSTAINED AND SUBSISTED IN DIVINE ESSENCE.2) This is how the Hanbalis have viewed the Asharis for centuries.Ibn al-Jawzis quotes can be found in his al-Muntadham, in his notice on Abul-Hasan al-Ashari; as well as his Sayd al-Khatir

ANS:= WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE WORKS OF IBN AL JAUZI IN THIS REGARD. IT MEANS ALLEGED HANBALIS HAS NOT UNDERSTOOD MAJORITY OF AHLUSSUNNAH SINCE AGES. NB. MAY ALL-H SAVE US FROM SAYING ANY THING AGAINST IMAM AHMAD BIN HANBAL. THESE ALLEGED FOLLOWERS HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD HIM PROPERLY.Ibn Qudama is being quoted from his Munadhara maa Ahl al-Bida (debate with heretics), which is his discourse with his contemporary Ashrites.WE ARE NOT GOING TO BELIEVE IBN QUDAMAH ON THESE ISSUES. HE ACTUALLY TRY TO IMPLY CERTAIN BELIEVES FROM THE BELIEVES AND THEN ASCRIBES THEM TO ASARITES AND MATURIDITES. MAY ALL-H FORGIVE THIS SIN OF HIS.al-Saffarini is being quoted from his own Sharh to his own Athari creed called Lawami.About these adsRelatedOn Qur'an, Sound, and LettersIn "202 - Advanced Asma wa Sifaat"Short Bio of Abul-Hasan by Ibn al-JawziIn "202 - Advanced Asma wa Sifaat"Ash'ari Confessions that the Qur'an is CreatedIn "202 - Advanced Asma wa Sifaat"

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