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Wits University - Historical Papers Kobus Mostert
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CLIENT : University of the Witwatersrand – Historical Papers SUBJECT : Kobus Mostert IDENTIFICATION : Tape 09 CONTACT PERSON : Michele Pickover DATE : 15 November 2008
Please note:
1. When typist is unsure of names, speakers will be identified by title. 2. Transcriptions are typed verbatim, and typist, when unsure of jargon,
industry terms or individual’s names, will type phonetic spelling followed by (unsure)
3. Experienced a lot of background noises, similar to factory noises making some of the interview difficult to hear and causing inaudible.
For queries, please phone Barbara, Ramkiki, 082 571 1203
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INTERVIEWER: Interview with Kobus Mostert in Cape Town on August 13th …
shall we start from the beginning.
KOBUS MOSTERT: I was born in Johannesburg in 1968 the 4th June
…Primary School in Johannesburg, up until standard one, and then we went to
school in Namibia. We studied Tsumeb…I was at school there until standard
four…then we moved to Kombat which is as small little town between Utapau
and Grootfontein…we were there for four years and then we moved back to
Tsumeb, I did my High School in Tsumeb…and then I joined the Namibian
National Defence Force basically.
INTERVIEWER: That was the National Service.
KOBUS MOSTERT: Yes that was National Service, yes. I did my National
Service; I started out in Orsoma Base which is close to Okahandja which was
infantry school basically. But I didn’t like the setup there so after about four days
they did the parachute battalion selection and so I went for the selection and they
picked 27 of us…we went down to Bloemfontein on our own, South Wester’s and
we did basics there round about the 16th January…and then we went to
Oudtshoorn because we were now basically the junior leader group for South
West African Parachute Battalion…1 Swaswes [?] so we went down to
Oudtshoorn and we did our Jls there and then when the okes did their border
phase in Oudtshoorn we went back to parachute battalion to do the PG course
and the jumping course…and after that we went back to Oudtshoorn just to finish
up and do meteric [unsure] and get rank and get posted out to which ever unit.
But then they did a pre-selection where they actually wanted guys …because
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ops Marilo [?] was in full swing…so they wanted to know if there were any guys
who were willing to go to the border, any unit on the border, to relieve these guys
basically…so myself and Jors van den Berg we were the first two volunteers
…we said lets go to 32 …and they picked us and they took eight more guys…
INTERVIEWER: When did you first hear about 32 Battalion?
KOBUS MOSTERT: My cousin told me.
INTERVIEWER: And what did you think about it at the time?
KOBUS MOSTERT: I saw a bit of 32 on the TV in my school years, like in
standard eight or nine, and my cousin told me, because my main aim was to join
reconnaissance, but he said to me it’s a whole different ball…because he was in
One Rec…and he said no its…if its not really in my mind to do this type of work
and he explained to me that you are in the bush for long times on your own
…you have to basically work in the sticks….if you are looking for action
satisfaction…
INTERVIEWER: So at one point you were deciding whether you wanted to join
Recce’s or 32 Battalion.
KOBUS MOSTERT: After my cousin convinced me, he said to me…my Dad
was in the Army in 1961 so he was always a military type of guy…he always said
you are not going to the Police Force after you leave school so I was always
going to go to the army, I just didn’t know which unit so my cousin actually …he
sort of convinced me if I got in at the right unit and you can go, and you can pick
a unit, then pick 32 Battalion because the experience that you will gain and
gather….so when I joined the army I was very …you don’t have any direction in
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your life and you just want to go and play around…I wasn’t going to go and study
I wasn’t made to go and study, definitely not. I was going to join the army, so
after Brigadier Gert Nel said listen here you got 32, you can go. We arrived in
Buffalo much earlier; we got a rank a month earlier before the other guys got
rank and so we basically got rank before the other guys in Oudtshoorn. So they
put us on the plane and from Windhoek we drove with the 300 up to Rundu
where the main headquarters of 32 Battalion was. There we met a very
interesting man …Jan Hogardt he was the 2IV of the unit at that stage. Basically
the welcoming committee, it wasn’t a welcoming committee it was ‘n “uitkak
parade” like what the fuck are you doing here…we didn’t ask for you, that type of
thing…so next day they put us on a truck and we went through to 32 at Buffalo
and we arrived there in the afternoon late and they said we were going to the
training area for orientation…to get to know what the unit is all about …how they
work, how they operate and there were also the new intakes, the recruits…so we
basically …we were like recruits all over again, although we had rank it meant
fuck all in their eyes because you don’t know what you are doing here. So
everything that we learnt in Oudtshoorn, how you do attacks and formations and
stuff that went out the window because these guys had a different way of doing it
and it was awesome…it was brilliant, it made sense, everything that they taught
us and there was Piet van Eeden was our instructor…Staff Sergeant Piet van
Eeden and a brilliant guy…he has got all the savvy up there he knows
everything….
INTERVIEWER: What did they teach you differently….from what you learnt.
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KOBUS MOSTERT: For instance in Oudtshoorn they concentrated on a
formation…like a spear formation…you got two guys up as reconnaissance and
you got you spear formation here so if you hit contact from either side you just
open flanks…but in 32 they taught us the box formation…is the best…its either
the box formation or closed box. So from whichever flank you get attacked you
just open this flank…or you open your right or left hand flank or you close the
box…like in areas where SWAPO work, because they used to run in at the back
of the box…so you cover all your sides like you are in a castle basically.
INTERVIEWER: Interesting that you say castle, because that formation was
first developed probably in the 15th Century by Swiss Mercenaries.
KOBUS MOSTERT: Serious…and it works.
INTERVIEWER: Maybe they used pikes instead of AK47’s…
KOBUS MOSTERT: That’s it….but anyway and also the language, a lot of the
troops …there were like ten percent in the platoon who could speak a bit of
English, the rest was all Portuguese but we …it was a bit of an eye opener
because we thought we could learn Portuguese…next week end you wake up
and you know the language…and it took me basically three years to get onto a
bush Portuguese level, so…and then they deployed us after those two weeks
back to Rundu and then we moved with Unimogs across the River…up to
Mavinga in Molino…but we never got to see Cuito or any of those places, we
were ten guys that were rookies, newts that went up there in the bush, we had
gyppo guts, “kakked” our lungs out and we slept in the bush for about a month
and half….
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INTERVIEWER: And the Angolan’s that were there with you were new recruits
as well?
KOBUS MOSTERT: Some of them yes…only a couple of them because the
recruits that we were training in the training area, they weren’t battle ready, to call
it that way, they were only going to be incorporated into the companies the
following year. We are talking about November / December 1987…and what
basically then happened is the guys came back from the bush and we all joined
them back in the base and I think it was January or February we were
incorporated into our companies and I went into Delta Company Platoon number
ten …Platoon Commander and our Captain at that stage was Jurk Human but
then he left and J de Vos… he became our Company Commander…but anyway
he did…our platoon was platoon number twelve and Andre Bouwer became
platoon number eleven. Then they picked my platoon and [inaudible] platoon to
go up with Cactus…it’s a …basically it’s a ground based missile mobile unit that
they use to shoot the Migs with…its an anti-aircraft missile weapon and that was
the first time that they actually deployed in Angola so we were there basically to
protect them and it was a long journey up there because these things got
hydraulic and you had to cut trees and all that stuff, so we went up with them and
deployed in a Shona…we dug ourselves in, in a hill, to protect these guys but
they were “blou koppies”….pilots, those type of guys…and they knew shit about
bush…but anyway so the first three days nothing happened…and then we
thought…we started playing cards and we were about 24 kilometres away from
Cuito Cuanavale and nothing is going to happen here whatsoever…so the third
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day they shot the one Mig but the Mig…there was one at the bottom and one at
the top, so they shot the bottom one and the top one obviously spotted us and
from there on for the next two days they bombed the crap out of us…they shot at
us, they bombed us, but they never knew exactly where we were…and so we
had to move out of this area, it was getting too hot…
INTERVIEWER: Did you have any casualties or anything.
KOBUS MOSTERT: No none, we dug foxholes, but actually not down like this,
it was actually like an attack bend.
INTERVIEWER: Like a dassie burrow.
KOBUS MOSTERT: Yes…we…the hole area was full of holes and whatever,
so Villier moved…he was with us the Company Commander he moved TT out of
the area and I was to follow them…so he took all the “lugmag outjies” and they
ducked with the cars and basically late sundown. I waited until the next morning
and then only I came…then one funny part…we were in the Shona, and I had a
driver from Kempton Park, a young whitie on the Qwe and it had a big playboy
on it …this thing had no breaks it had no 6 x 6 and the exhaust was broken, it
sounded like a V8 truck…but this thing had speed, so we were in the middle of
the Shona and he was flooring it so there is huge dust and everything…you can
drive like that, but I was a rookie I didn’t know shit…and Villier radioed and said
Mossie I hope you are not in the middle of the Shona…stick to the side of the
Shona…bundu bash a bit because the Migs are going to pick you up, and the
next moment the whole troop shouted Migs, Migs, Migs, and there were two Migs
coming down on us but they didn’t spot us but we thought they spotted us so I
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said to the driver just go for the bushes because we are going to die …and as we
drove into the bushes behind us the troops are jumping off and falling their gats
off in the bush but luckily they just went past us. But everywhere in the field you
could see all these round circles, burnt circles where they bombed in the
Shona…and then we were stationed in the Kusu Islands…we dug ourselves in
there again …it was a bad position, these guys were not going to shoot Migs
down from there because we had to cut out trees and it’s a bit, you are giving
yourself away your position…and I am getting to the end of this story now…and
then what happened was also a funny thing…first time anyone shot at me was at
this spot…it was about four o’clock in the morning, we got coms that there was a
whole Battalion of FAPLA and they were looking for us so we had to pack up.
Now all my guys were dug in and these guys were right at the back of us…we
were like on a slope down on the hill…the TT was this side of the road and I was
this side…and the next moment the shit hit the fan…there were tracers and flares
and …but my guys didn’t shoot…I was still busy folding up my sleeping bag and
the bark started flying around me, so I just jumped into a hole next to my
Sergeant Jakee Bovingo [?] and I asked him why aren’t we shooting…and he
said we must just wait he thinks its UNITA…we can’t shoot now he thinks its
UNITA and all the guys just waited…these guys were shooting the “kak” out of us
…no one got shot but …and then my one Corporal Robeiro he was very close to
the firing line on this side …so he just emptied the magazine into the bush and
he actually shot two of them and they started running away, so it was
UNITA…because the whole time we shouted [inaudible] and they shouted back
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“but who are you” …you know what I am saying, so it was…and these guys just
knew that it was UNITA …the way they were firing, there was no mortars…and
obviously the air force guys they all just went down the road, they ran like hell.
Not on vehicles, they lost rifles, binoculars that we picked up because we came
in the morning when it got light; we started picking up all the “trommels” and stuff
that they left behind.
INTERVIEWER: Did you give them back?
KOBUS MOSTERT: Yes we gave it back to them.
INTERVIEWER: But that’s an interesting story because from what the
Angolan’s from what 32 told me, they didn’t get along very well with UNITA…did
this cause some tension later.
KOBUS MOSTERT: It did…there is another story…after we basically went
back to Mavinga they trooped us back and we went on base leave…we just
rested for two weeks which was nice.
INTERVIEWER: At Buffalo base?
KOBUS MOSTERT: Yes, the guys don’t even wash when they get back, you
just pass, it was nice, and there was no …there weren’t strict rules and stuff, that
you had to polish your boots at least….but the guys drilling wise, as long as the
guys performed …it wasn’t a glamour story of you have to be perfectly based and
salute and all that stuff. That was the normal army stuff that we did, but it wasn’t,
we weren’t supposed to be clean and shiny. The guys did the work and that was
it…they way you acted in base…one thing …if you fucked up in base and you
were drunk all the time, we caused a lot of “kak” and we made “kak” but as long
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as you don’t fuck up in the bush…then everything is fine. We went back and I
think we started ops Hooper and Pecker …that part was Hooper and then Pecker
and then we did two [inaudible] basic camps…the base just before Cuito
Cuanavale and our Reconnaissance teams went in and …the guys were all dug
in basically…it’s a free base before you get Cuito Cuanavale itself across the
bridge, it was like a small base before that…you cross the Shamvingo River and
you saved it in a day…you get dry and the next morning at about four o’clock you
started advancing to the base…and while we were getting ready, Ian and I were
talking to each other and another trooper and the next minute a shot went
off…but right behind us….we had an ex pilot and they actually shot his finger
off…his gun went off and he shot his finger off, and everyone said he didn’t want
to go into battle that’s why he….but anyway when we did the roll call there, there
was also two guys missing from Delta Company…one was José, I cant
remember …Batisda….they stayed behind with the vehicles and forgot to wake
up and that type of thing, but they didn’t go with. So we are advancing towards
the base and our artillery is throwing an illumination on the target…now obviously
so that we could see the base…but about five kilometres away from our guys we
UNITA was staging with 120 ml mortars…so they saw the illumination and they
thought hell there is illumination on the target, they will also “gooi” a couple of
mortars. So they “gooi” mortars and it opened right at the top of us, so it was
like daylight now…so gone was all the surprise and these guys were actually
leaving their trenches when the illumination opened up. There was a bit of small
arms fire so we went down and as we went down Delta Company was on the left
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flank…I was running from between ten, eleven and twelve…and as we went
down one corporal had a flare in his ground…and as he went down that flare
went off…into the ground so now it was a cannon in a dark room…so I was
jumping on this thing and “gooing” sand on it to get it to ….to distinguish the flare
because its an illumination flare and when I got up…because I had been looking
straight into it, I was blind, I couldn’t see “shit” so only from the part of my eyes…I
actually had to lead myself with the troops while we were advancing
them…getting up in advance, so we eventually got in…just before we got to the
trenches the sun was coming up and there was a truck which Louis Lombard
shot out with an RPG7…shot the one truck out, then we went across, there is like
a dry bed, we went into the trenches so we jumped into their trenches and now
its daylight….now these guys obviously knew we were …word had got out to
Cuito that these guys are [inaudible] and at about…I reckon from about eight
o’clock that morning and until about four o’clock that afternoon…they bombed us
with everything that they had. The one…we had thirteen wounded…and my one
friend Andre Bouwer he actually went to jump into a fox hole and they were busy
flying troops down there…fixing them up and patching them up and the next
moment we just heard this sound and woop as you looked down there is a mortar
stuck about a meter away from me into the ground, but it was too soft …the
ground was too soft so it didn’t go off…and that was quite funny. We had a
Captain who was supposed to collect maps and stuff, pick up from the enemy
and this guy was loaded ammunition wise…up to his ears and he was
dehydrating quite fast…he was very overweight…I cant remember the guy and
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so he jumped into my foxhole…I had dug one under a big tree so you can stay
there the whole day…
INTERVIEWER: Next to a human bomb.
KOBUS MOSTERT: Yes, but anyway so after the bombing and stuff slowed
down our tanks advanced so we had to “gooi” smoke …red and green for the
entry point for our tanks, but UNITA …now obviously we camouflaged …we were
all black…okay black is beautiful…and we got up to like hullo come and relieve
us, we want to leave this place its too hot here…that was in the afternoon, and
then UNITA saw us and they started opening fire on our guys and the shot TT
…two shots in his “staaldak” he actually got shot in his staaldak…we couldn’t
return fire because then we would confuse the guys on our tanks, that we are not
32 we are the enemy, so we had to…
INTERVIEWER: Why did you need a firing [inaudible]
KOBUS MOSTERT: They saw the camouflage…
INTERVIEWER: Okay, so they were confused.
KOBUS MOSTERT: They got confused, they thought it was SWAPO I mean
FAPLA.
INTERVIEWER: So at this stage you had more contact with UNITA than…
KOBUS MOSTERT: With UNITA than with the actual enemy. Except for the
enemy bombing us with flames and …so eventually we “gooi” smoke again and
now we are pinpointing our position for the guys in [inaudible] but at that stage
there was also Migs starting to fly over…and we had to leave this area they were
going to bomb the shit out of us…so we [inaudible] the tanks and the tanks
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moved in and we started pulling out, so we were in a long single file and we just
started walking…out of the area because the bombs were falling all over the
show. So we left, we walked out and myself, Eugene Rheeder, my Sergeant and
another troop we stayed behind with this fat Captain…because he couldn’t walk
anymore he was completely …he was parked out….so we had to…we left the
base for about three kilometres and we were out of troop and then we had to put
him under a bush or whatever, so we said there is UNITA but its not far from
here…so we walked to the base it was about six kilometres …then we will come
back with stretchers and stuff to come and help him, so we must look after this
guy, so we stayed there and looked after they guy and put a drip in, but the
whole time he wanted to bend his arm and we were finding flies in his nose and
ears and in your ears…it was a “kak” situation…we didn’t want to stay there
because its still a hot area…and Eugene was protecting the one flank and myself
the other one…I was standing with the guy and the next moment there was a
UNITA truck on the way, so Eugene spotted them and said we can’t make a
sound…if they are going to see us in the bush …then even though Black is
beautiful or whatever, they are going to think we are FAPLA …and these guys
passed up about ten metres from us…and this guy was making noise and I
closed his mouth. So they walked past us and they didn’t pick us up…because if
we jumped up and said hullo…they were FAPLA …so eventually these guys
came back later, it was dark already and they sent troops back with stretchers
and stuff and we carried this guy back to base…. So that was the end of that
trip…this was trooper one…and trooper two we had to be dumped from the tank,
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elephant tank…Delta Company was in front and then Echo and Foxtrot was
inside. What they basically did was they deployed us on top of the tanks…five
on a tank…so if we made contact you could jump off the back…not on the side,
so we were also going to do a early morning attack like first light…and we were
lined up and ready to go and then they said …as we were supposed to go
in…they called us off the tanks and said no its going to be a daylight attack they
are going to send UNITA in because they were scared that we were going to lose
bodies….and when UNITA hit the first contact there they jumped off the side of
the tank, they lost about five or six guys on the 80’s…that’s personal
mines…they then jumped off the back on the tracks and so we didn’t go in…then
basically after that we went back to platoon itself, walking companies and then
we went out on reconnaissance basically…we were …we could see Cuito
Cuanavale or whatever…and myself and Andre went up …there was this huge
tree and we had this Captain from the artillery …he was bringing in fire from
Kuito …selected fire, and we had to move for two days…he had to go back so
we just sitting there doing nothing so Wally Frey one Captain asks us but cant
you give us any targets…we said but we …we don’t know what to call
coordinates and all that stuff, the type of lingua they are using …he said no fine,
just plot something on the map…you have got a map, you have got
binoculars…plot us a target we are going to shoot something. So we plotted a
couple of …we could see like there is a vehicle in the bush, you could see the
place of a window…then we targeted this one bush…and said okay we did some
fire…”battery bestoking” so we chopped the define and afterwards there was
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black smoke screens and so it was the end of “stokers” basically. Then the
Captain came back and we pulled out. That was the end of that and then we
went through …we did another ops …where we worked through to
Ruacana…[inaudible] but before we did Ruacana they deployed us at Dechiba
[?] we worked in that area there and we basically just patrolled the area and we
laid a couple of ambushes…nothing happened. Then we got back to …we came
through Calueque where they shot those guys, pipe line was bombed…and there
were a couple of guys who died in a Buffel…we just walked our “gats” off in the
time we were there…I actually stayed behind for about a week….[radio news
interruption] now there are major courses moved out and you cant stay there so I
had to catch up with the guys…they gave me all their food and water and stuff,
because they were going to do forty kilometres and then they were going to be
on the border, so I just basically followed them and then we went to
Ruacana…we went across the border on Ruacana side …Andre actually…his
company was attacked there by FAPLA and BRDM’s and T55 Tanks and Andre
had to go through without a tank with the RPG7’s and as he came across the hill
he just heard this huge noise behind him and this T55 tank was actually behind
him…so he took one wild shot in the dark and him and his troop went running
down the road and they took a shot at them and shouted, “afandla, afandla” don’t
shoot the caxton[?] …and his troop actually fell, went back and picked him up
and then they carried on going, so we worked out an area where we planted
mines …when the BRDM hit the mine that was when there was a bit of chaos
because FAPLA were coming down the road across from the dam advancing to
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our positions…we were based on the hillside…there are rock foundations
whatever, its very rocky and we had a good view of what was going on…but then
they pulled us out there, or they basically stopped and they went back there after
BRDM [inaudible] so they didn’t advance towards us ..And that was that
trip…and then we did [inaudible]
INTERVIEWER: This is during the peace negotiations?
KOBUS MOSTERT: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: How was that, suddenly you had to work alongside your…
KOBUS MOSTERT: We had to build up a profile of the platoon commander on
the FAPLA side…we had to build up a profile where does he come from and the
troops and whose area do they operate…this guy was actually, although he was
in FAPLA he was actually a SWAPO…he was an Konyama…and he was in
those areas where I also was with beacon seven…we actually knew that area
back to front…and as we chatted with them and played soccer with them …on
the soccer field there because it was boring. In the morning we would go on
patrol and one side would come back, and the next morning we would take patrol
just to look for tracks and stuff…I think the whole joint military originally was
more a show of we are better than you …because we had nice tents and we had
two Buffels and I had a nice radio and we got good food, we got extra…we used
to fly in once a week a chopper with ice cream and a TV and Video and…so it
was like a sort of a show off…if you want to call it that way.
INTERVIEWER: But let’s back track for a second here…because now you are
working under UN Mandate right…I mean there ad been a ceasefire …were you
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surprised when you heard this was all going to happen.
KOBUS MOSTERT: One thing that I did forget, when SWAPO came across
the border, no that was only afterwards….sorry. They said that we were coming
to an end and that will negotiate and …obviously yes because …
INTERVIEWER: How did you feel about this were you happy that this was
going to happen …
KOBUS MOSTERT: No, I thought it was absolute bullshit because why if you
look at the unit’s tree…all the names knocked to that tree, for what reason…was
it …were we just there to test the weapons…make Armscor make better
weapons…we just have to test the shit…you know what I am saying…there was
no cause behind it at all whatsoever…now I am not going to get into any political
discussion or whatever, the way I just …because its nice being in the army …it
really gave you balls, it gave you direction, you were this little boy who was piss
willy at school and now all of a sudden you are making decisions that a Bank
Manager in Absa …you have more responsibility than him…and you are 18
years old…now that very …it lays a foundation …if after that you still fuck around
and you still fall apart or whatever, then you know what I am saying…it gives you
backbone and I am not just saying this because I was 32 …I think anyone if you
joined the army at least it gave you discipline…look at today’s kids…they are
[interjected]
INTERVIEWER: Obviously there were some political objectives behind the
war… did you feel that ….
KOBUS MOSTERT: We were taught, or you think if you are going to the army
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you are going to destroy the red movement and the only way to do this is to go
through Angola and clean them out …South Africa is in danger and if
Angola…next country that falls is Namibia and South West Africa and then South
Africa which was ….
INTERVIEWER: Did you [inaudible] Namibia so obviously you were
concerned.
KOBUS MOSTERT: Yes you believe that you had to sort these guys out…go
shoot the fuckers. So …and afterwards, but while they were busy with
negotiations…like its going to come to an end, we are going to be joint military,
we actually thought it was just going to last for a while and then we are going to
“moer” each other again…so it wasn’t like what’s happening here…the war is
coming to an end what are we going to do then…you didn’t think that far, they
were saying you are young and all you want to do is ….when you are in uniform
shoot your gun…you know what I am saying…you …I was definitely too
young…now and obviously if you are that age you don’t get to talk to the General
or the…one of the main guys…you don’t get to know what’s going on
whatsoever…and you don’t care, you have got your platoon and that’s what you
do. If they ask you to go and patrol or do whatever, you will just go and do it.
INTERVIEWER: Do you remember the first time when you were briefed on this
radical change of mission, one day you are fighting and the next day you are
corroborating…do you remember sitting and listening to the …
KOBUS MOSTERT: They briefed us in Rundu itself in the ops room…they
were talking…look you never knew what you were going to do…its like the day
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before you do whatever…what you are going to do, what is your mission going to
do…no its get ready you are going to deploy…
INTERVIEWER: But was there any indication before this that the political
situation was changing, did you see the writing on the wall at some stage…and
see this coming or was it a total surprise?
KOBUS MOSTERT: I definately didn’t see it coming…there wasn’t gossip or
talk…you know what I am saying…that would have gone around and we would
have discussed it in the bars and whatever, what are we going to do now, what
are we going to do next, you know what I am saying…it wasn’t let out. I think it
was up to maybe Company Commanders status or maybe even Base
Commanders, but not further than that because then I know we would have
blocked it or….
INTERVIEWER: Do you think the Angolan’s had any idea of what was going
on?
KOBUS MOSTERT: No not really because when we did the …their
communication wasn’t that strong…up to their ground forces because when we
did the joint military in [inaudible] where we practically pulled out or…they
weren’t very clued up to date when the guys were coming to visit them or were
they going to be moved or were they going to get a new vehicle the next day or
…so …and their supplies they didn’t have a lot of food…so no based on that I
cant see that they even knew what was really going on…and if you take the first
of April when SWAPO came across the border, I mean all hell broke
loose…SWAPO thought their company was there and we were just going to run
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across the border…so what type of intelligence is that…that’s like non
existent…on beacon 22 where I was stationed there was a huge build up of
vehicles and shit on that side of the border the night before we left and the next
morning they trooped us out to Ragana and obviously I was the furthest beacon
at that stage from Delta Company so I was the last one to leave for Buffalo and
as I was sitting on the N4 the gunships came in…two of them and two Puma’s
and the guys were shaking…the pilots, they had no more bullets, there was no
more ammunition left and they were sent out, coming across the border like
cattle and we first trooped back to Buffalo and then they deployed us after the
weekend, we went all the way by vehicle…went back again and they deployed us
in North Chikata…and different areas to comb…but there was never …there was
no like early warning or …and then obviously the whole move from South West
Africa down to Pomfret was also …we saw the writing on the wall then…we had
to come down to South Africa and what are we going to do here…do lines?
INTERVIEWER: Were you stationed at Pomfret for a while?
KOBUS MOSTERT: Yes I was at Pomfret as well.
INTERVIEWER: What did you think of Pomfret the first time you saw it.
KOBUS MOSTERT: It was shit…it was terrible seriously…we were living right
next to the Okavango River …that’s like stunning and I grew up in that area so its
like leaving home, going where? And I think for the love of the troops as well it
was heart breaking to see the guys…I was in charge of the last train that left
Grootfontein station so I had to load all the troops on the last troops and their
families on the busses from Buffalo to Grootfontein and one sad thing for me was
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the amount of animals that were left behind, dogs that they couldn’t catch to take
them with…and my other mate Jors …they had to go back after we left …to go
and shoot the dogs in Akimbo…that were still running around…that’s the human
thing to do…so that to me was very sad, serious. Animals and children can’t look
after themselves…we are adults we can…so….
INTERVIEWER: So it felt like you were leaving home…do you think the
Angolan’s also felt like that?
KOBUS MOSTERT: Definitely we allowed them time…a lot of them were
excited…because they were going to South Africa, the promised land. And I
think it was such a big eye opener …look where they are now…they are left
behind, it’s a regime, it’s the government that doesn’t give a shit.
INTERVIEWER: But the Angolan’s buried their dead at Buffalo base didn’t
they.
KOBUS MOSTERT: They did yes, and its difficult…they are staying in Pomfret
now…they were the donkeys of the army and they did all the “kak” work for
South African Defence Force and thank you very much that’s a golden
handshake …and where are they now.
INTERVIEWER: That wasn’t really a golden handshake it was more of an
asbestos handshake actually.
KOBUS MOSTERT: There you go, you are right… asbestos. So …but if I can
choose, if someone said to me would you, whatever you did …where you were,
would you do it again…I would say I wish I was just like three years
older…because then I would have been in the unit for three years longer…any
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day any time…the unit didn’t change me…it changed me to good. I am definitely
not “bossies” or anything…fuck all, that’s bullshit…but the friends that I have met,
the connections that I have made its for life…that bond can never ever break and
my partner here he was in the army for like six months …I talk about people that I
have met in those years and that I am still friends with up until now…and we just
understand each other, it’s a different…it’s a culture if you want to put it that way.
INTERVIEWER: Have you come across any of the Black troops that you
worked with in recent years?
KOBUS MOSTERT: The one time….they actually got the key or the freedom of
Kempton Park…I had already left the army and everything, I think it was in
1991…talking under correction, either 1990/1991 I am not sure…a friend of
mine, we were in Johannesburg for a holiday and I heard about this that they
were going to have a parade and so we drove through to Kempton Park and as
we got there they were all standing in companies but all just chatting…all the
troops…and as I …I actually almost ran towards them…I just heard the one guy
shout out ….Lieutenant “Mossie”…and the whole company just…it was.
INTERVIEWER: Like a reunion.
KOBUS MOSTERT: Yes it was, and then when…then I met one up in Rundu,
the guy who shot his finger off, and I went back to Rundu and worked for my Dad
in Rundu…he had a seal company…and he was a security guard at the First
National Bank…so he never …
KOBUS MOSTERT: And I looked at him and I recognised his face, he had put
on a little bit of weight and then I looked at his finger and I saw his finger was
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missing and I said Peu… and he also…he was almost crying…it was …you know
what do you say, what do you tell the guy…he obviously asked me for a job but I
couldn’t help him and yes…he actually asked me for a job …but he wasn’t skilled
to do anything else as a security guard…what type of work do you let these guys
do…but I will tell you one thing and I have worked with Blacks all my life…going
into business and the army and I will never ever swop those troops for white
troops, never. The one guy in Buffalo the one day he was a contractor and we
were in the bar and he said julle “kaffers” wat vir julle werk, and I smacked him
and I said to him they are not “kaffers” they are troops and they are our troops. I
will never work with whites, as well as I worked with them…I have the worlds
respect for them and I knew they also had respect for me, so they are just a
different type of person…and the guys who work for me here, the Blacks that
work for me here, I can work with Blacks but I have never worked with people out
there…they type of people that they were, never ever.
INTERVIEWER: Is there anything that you would like to ask me before we
finish the interview?
KOBUS MOSTERT: What is your opinion about 32 Battalion?
INTERVIEWER: My opinion of 32 Battalion…I think it was a product of a very
unusual period of history…I think in the context of the cold war it’s the only place
that something like 32 Battalion could have emerged. I am trying to look at it
from a historical perspective so I am going back to 1961 when the FNLA was
formed…you know the first …one of the things that strikes me about 32 Battalion
is that the original members of 76 were…they were Angola’s first freedom
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fighters…they were the first anti-colonial liberation fighters in Angola…who had
just been pushed from one place to another because of factors of history beyond
their control, and in every case they landed on the wrong side of history…and I
…quite a few of them look at their lives now, because of the situations they are in
now they look at their lives and see it as a series of betrayals one after the other,
depends on where they are…I think the ones that are still in the defence force
probably look at it differently…everyone sort of has a different…they sort of look
at their past through a different lens…and that’s [inaudible] by where they are
sitting today…and I think its important that we look at the whole story of 32
Battalion [inaudible] the directions that things are going in the state of Angola at
the moment. I think that politically most of the FNLA veterans have said that the
Angolan war was a bit of nonsense, it was vanity….
KOBUS MOSTERT: It’s a rich country and everyone wants to make
money…everyone wants a piece of the pie and how are they going to sort each
other out in the country itself…its…still a stunning country, its beautiful,
awesome, I would like to farm there …without water there is nothing there.
INTERVIEWER: Okay Kobus thanks very much.
KOBUS MOSTERT: Pleasure.
END OF INTERVIEW
Collection Number: A3079 Collection Name: “Missing Voices” Oral History Project, 2004-2012
PUBLISHER: Publisher: Historical Papers Research Archive, University of the Witwatersrand Location: Johannesburg ©2016
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