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NEW YORK STATE

LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND

REAPPORTIONMENT

PUBLIC MEETING

PRISONER COUNT AND REALLOCATION

Tuesday, January 10, 2012

Room 124

State Capitol Building

Albany, New York

1:30 P.M.


Ubiqus/Nation-Wide Reporting & Convention Coverage 22 Cortlandt Street – Suite 802, New York, NY 10007

Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

TASK FORCE MEMBERS PRESENT:

SENATOR MICHAEL F. NOZZOLIO, Co-Chair

ASSEMBLY MEMBER JOHN J. MCENENY, Co-Chair

SENATOR MARTIN M. DILAN

ASSEMBLY MEMBER ROBERT OAKS

DEBRA LEVINE

ROMAN HEDGES

WELQUIS LOPEZ

LEWIS HOPPE


Prisoner Count and Reallocation, 1-10-12


Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

INDEX

Page SENATOR MICHAEL F NOZZOLIO 4 SENATOR MARTIN M. DILAN 4 ASSEMBLY MEMBER JOHN J. MCENENY 5 ROMAN HEDGES 15 ASSEMBLY MEMBER ROBERT OAKS 26


1 Prisoner Count and Reallocation, 1-10-12


Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

(The public meeting commenced at 1:30 p.m.) 2

SENATOR MICHAEL F. NOZZOLIO, CO-CHAIR, 3

NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC 4

RESEARCH AND REAPPORTIONMENT: …on demographics and 5

apportionment will come to order. My name is Mike 6

Nozzolio. I am honored to be the co-chair of the LATFOR 7

Task Force along with my good friend Assemblyman Jack 8

McEneny. Assemblyman, Happy New Year, very good to be 9

with you as always. 10

ASSEMBLY MEMBER JOHN J. MCENENY, CO-CHAIR, 11

NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC 12

RESEARCH AND REAPPORTIONMENT: Yes, indeed. 13

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Before I turn it over to 14

you I just want to mention the Senate members of the 15

task force, those with Senate appointments, my—to my 16

right is my colleague Assemblyman Martin, excuse me, 17

Senator Martin Dilan. Good afternoon Senator. 18

SENATOR MARTIN M. DILAN, NEW YORK STATE 19

LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND 20

REAPPORTIONMENT: Hello. 21

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Good to see you and the 22

citizen representative on the task force Welquis Ray 23

Lopez. Assemblyman. 24

ASSEMBY MEMBER MCENENY: Everybody’s 25

familiar with who’s who and how the progress has been, 26




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

been, been, coming along. I will introduce my 2

members. I’m Jack McEneny from the, from the, 3

assembly and this is Bob Oaks who is my classmate and 4

the—I suppose the equivalent of the ranking minority 5

member here and our citizen representative is Dr. 6

Roman Hedges. 7

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: It—the group assembled 8

here today has been virtually constantly with each 9

other over the past six months. We have conducted 10

hearings in every corner of New York State, some in 11

the room here have participated in those hearings. 12

Over 55 hours of testimony, well over 375 people 13

submitting oral testimony, and a number of 14

individuals, citizens of this state, submitting 15

written testimony, which is welcome and that it is an 16

extensive record. Today’s agenda will be to have a—17

in fact, an imprimatur of this committee on the 18

prison adjustment data release of the 2010 census. 19

That on August 11, 2010, Chapter 57 of the laws of 20

2010 was signed into law by then Governor Patterson. 21

This measure directed that the New York State 22

Department of Corrections provide this task force 23

with information regarding incarcerated individuals 24

under its jurisdiction as of April 1st, 2010. This 25

was the date of the census conducted by the United 26




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

States Census Bureau. The objective of the statute 2

was to adjust this census for the very first time for 3

state redistricting purposes by removing prisoners 4

from where they were incarcerated, which is the 5

process that the United States Census undergoes, and 6

placing them at the residence prior—at their 7

residence prior to their incarceration. The adjusted 8

process took three stages and I wish to articulate 9

those. It was first subtracting prisoners from their 10

place of incarceration. Secondly, adding them by a 11

reallocation process that placed them with data from 12

the census taken by the intake of the Department of 13

Corrections responding to the question of where do 14

you live and where your nearest relatives live, and 15

then a process of producing data files and reports. 16

For that I wish to thank the staff of the LATFOR task 17

force. They have been working tirelessly. I also 18

want to thank Roman Hedges, a member of this task 19

force, who engaged in establishing some of the 20

templates that this first process was to engage in. 21

This process, by adjusting the numbers of 22

all prisoners at the State and Federal level, the 23

addition of prisoners whose addresses were generated 24

successfully, and then the production of those data 25

files, using the adjusted data. Those criteria have 26




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

been a method established by the LATFOR task force 2

staff and the adjusted data is now on the LATFOR 3

website. We wish to thank the efforts of those who 4

went about and did the aggressive processes 5

necessary, again, for the very first time to 6

implement this law. I hasten to add there were no 7

regulations that accompany this law, no procedures, 8

really no guidance in terms of the protocols to 9

establish this law so we were at the very first 10

impression. 11

Assemblyman McEneny and I have talked about 12

it a number of occasions that certainly more guidance 13

is necessary and more guidance particularly to the 14

Department of Corrections. That our position on the—15

certainly—on the Senate side of the aisle and, I 16

believe certainly in the assembly’s side of the aisle 17

both, we came to the conclusion together that we 18

wanted to count as many as we possibly could achieve 19

in that count to insure that there would not be those 20

left who were not counted, although the statute has 21

been very inadequate in the proper direction of where 22

that counting is, is, to be placed. So the purpose 23

of the task force meeting is to approve the inclusion 24

of this information and that we want the public to 25

have it. It is on the website now but this meeting 26




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

again is to insure that, that, it meets with the 2

approval of the members of the task force. 3

ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: I think that, 4

that, covers it Senator. I think one of the biggest 5

of problems that arose from the counting of prisoners, 6

which those of you that have been following this right 7

along, it was a commitment emphasized as far back as 8

July that we intended to follow the law as close as we 9

could to the spirit of the law, but that the problem 10

was the letter of the law became confusing because, as 11

the Senator mentioned, there were no accompanying 12

regulations. Therefore, it fell to LATFOR to create 13

the equivalent as such, such, regulations and the 14

final numbers 46,003 of our prisoners are now counted 15

on the home block and in some case within the home 16

town of the community whence they came and where most 17

of them will ultimately return. 18

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: That the LATFOR website 19

address is latfor.state.ny.us. That information 20

certainly is welcome to the public. With that, shall 21

we entertain a motion? 22

[crosstalk] 23

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Can we make the motion 24

and then discuss it? 25

[crosstalk] 26




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: I would like to 2

make a motion we accept the numbers as presented by 3

the combined staff of LATFOR for the purpose of 4

counting for redistricting in accordance with the law. 5

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: The motion is seconded, 6

made and seconded. Senator Dilan. 7

SENATOR DILAN: Thank you very much Mr. 8

Chairman. I, I, first would just like to comment and 9

first also commend you both co-chairpersons and the 10

staff for actually putting out this database. I think 11

this is something that we have all been trying to 12

achieve so I really want to commend you on that. 13

However, I believe two weeks ago I sent both co-chairs 14

a memo requesting that when we do ratify the work and 15

efforts of the staff, that maybe we have a two-week 16

period where the public and advocates and those who 17

have already submitted a plan so LATFOR would have the 18

ability to amend their submission based on the - - 19

data and I have not received a response from either 20

co-chair up to this point so I would like to know that 21

once we ratify this today are we giving the public and 22

advocate groups who have been very involved in this 23

process the ability to submit revised or amended 24

plans? 25

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator Dilan, thank you 26




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

and thank you for your comments and thank you for your 2

interest in this issue from the beginning. There is 3

no static or finite date to—sell-by date, on the plans 4

submitted. There is always the opportunity until the 5

final plans are ratified or accepted or enacted by the 6

legislature and signed into law that LATFOR, I think, 7

welcomes the continued input of individuals and 8

organizations. So your comments were well taken. 9

There should be a time period for plans are, are, 10

utilized, but I think certainly if we accept this 11

today, the 10th of January, there is ample time for 12

anyone to be able to modify their plans, at least 13

through the remainder of this month and frankly into 14

the hearing process. I think that is a, a, segue into 15

some of the comments that we would like to talk about 16

that—Do you want to address this directly, Senator? 17

ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: I would observe 18

that I would think some of the groups who have 19

submitted plans already have these numbers. I think 20

they presumed they would be ratified by LATFOR 21

officially as is happening hopefully today and they’re 22

probably already adjusting to see if it has any major 23

effect on recommended plans. Some for just one or two 24

districts, others for the entire state, and— 25

[crosstalk] 26




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: —for example is 2

the entire state— 3

SENATOR DILAN: [Interposing] So I take it 4

your answer is no, that they do not— 5

ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: [Interposing] My 6

answer is they are probably already doing it— 7

SENATOR DILAN: [Interposing] Two weeks— 8

ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: —they certainly 9

can do it before the public hearings commence. 10

SENATOR DILAN: I take the response as your 11

answer is no. However, I would also— 12

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: No, no, my answer is 13

that, no Senator, my answer is that these—any 14

submissions can be amended at any time throughout now 15

and the hearing process, which again I think there is 16

a segue. 17

We should now, at least, this is an 18

opportune time to discuss the intentions of the task 19

force, those 14 hearings that we engaged in were only 20

meant to be the first round of hearings that the task 21

force will conduct that we—that we’ll have at least 8 22

or 9 hearings scheduled across the state and various 23

regions of the state for a second round of hearings to 24

commence sometime, we hope, although we don’t have an 25

exact date now, sometime hopefully, commence by the 26




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

end of the month, end of January. And those meetings 2

certainly would also have as has taken place in I 3

believe in 1992 certainly in 2002 will follow the same 4

basic process engaged in, in, those two redistricting 5

cycles where initial plans were put forward from the 6

task force prior to the beginning of the hearings that 7

will take place hopefully beginning the end of 8

January, this month, and grinding into the month of 9

February. I hope that is a further elaboration of 10

your concern and that certainly anyone can submit a 11

plan today, amend it tomorrow, and decide to amend it 12

three or four times between now and the end the 13

process. 14

SENATOR DILAN: I understand what you’re 15

saying. I just wanted to have clear and definitely 16

where the public would know that they had the 17

opportunity. 18

MALE VOICE 1: Uh huh. 19

SENATOR DILAN: Then secondly, after—I am 20

supporting this motion. However, I would like to also 21

have the ability to discuss other business here. 22

MALE VOICE 1: Uh huh. 23

SENATOR DILAN: Today after we are done with 24

this? 25

MALE VOICE 1: Sure. 26




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

SENATOR DILAN: Ok, thank you. 2

ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: Maybe we should 3

bring this to a vote too? 4

MALE VOICE 1: Yes. 5

MALE VOICE 2: Yes. 6

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: There is motion on the 7

floor that has been seconded. All those in favor 8

MALE VOICE 3: I 9

MALE VOICE 4: I 10

MALE VOICE 5: I 11

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: The proposal carries 12

unanimously those numbers that are certified on the—13

that are placed on the LATFOR website have been agreed 14

to and certified by the actions of this motion. 15

MR. ROMAN HEDGES, NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATIVE 16

TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND 17

REAPPORTIONMENT: I would just like to add a couple of 18

observations, if I might. The, the, staff did a 19

fantastic job and they really need to be commended. I 20

am reluctant to name individuals because I’ll forget 21

someone, but a lot of people helped in a lot of 22

different ways and did really good work and I think 23

that if I look back on the product that I helped 24

produce to try to get this process started, we’ve got 25

a much better product now than we had then and I think 26




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

that it’s because of the comments and questions and 2

pushing that the staff did to make sure that the 3

product was a much better one. 4

The second is to really reiterate what you 5

said about what we’re faced with going forward. I, I, 6

would certainly hope that the public that has not yet 7

submitted plans will still feel free to do that and I 8

would hope that groups that have already submitted 9

plans will be able to rethink in light of what’s 10

happened in the release of this data and as we go 11

forward through the hearing process we’re all going to 12

learn things and I’m expecting that we’re all going to 13

learn things and change our mind about things as we go 14

forward so I want to really reinforce what the 15

Senator’s premise was, which is this is not a finished 16

product, this is the beginning of a process to make it 17

so that everyone can participate and so that we can 18

learn some things. 19

SENATOR DILAN: I, I, agree with everything 20

you said and I think the staff did a fantastic job and 21

I even believe that the final product is better than I 22

expected so I commend everyone on that. So if we 23

could move on— 24

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: [Interposing] Before we 25

do, on this, if I may interrupt, Senator, on this 26




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

issue, on the prisoner count issue, again I want to 2

reiterate my thanks to the citizen participant in 3

this—on this task force Roman Hedges, for your 4

efforts, Roman, in helping in terms of helping the 5

staff focus on this issue as— 6

I wear another hat in the legislature and 7

that is chairman of the New York State Standing 8

Committee on Crime Victims, Crime, and Corrections and 9

as such, for many years, have had jurisdiction over 10

the corrections department and the entire correctional 11

system in this state. I can say that it certainly was 12

not ever anticipated as the corrections department 13

takes intake of inmates and have had some of that 14

intake as old as three decades or more, that that 15

intake has just not been the type of intake necessary 16

to do the census taking that this law requires a 17

virtual census department to be placed within the 18

Department of Corrections. That’s more staff, more 19

cost, in order to do this correctly, then you would 20

have to have that type of total rethinking on the 21

protocols that are already in place for taking 22

prisoner intake information. 23

And there are going to have to be training, 24

just as the United States Census takers of which co-25

chair Assemblyman McEneny is an alumni of that 26




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

organization. That the census taking process is 2

something that was very unfamiliar to the Department 3

of Corrections and expecting them to have the types of 4

information, people ask well why is it taking so long 5

to do this, why is it taking so—why is it so 6

laborious. It’s that way because the Department of 7

Corrections was never given that type of planning and 8

I think that may take legislation and I know 9

Assemblyman McEneny and I have discussed the 10

possibility of recommending that legislation to the—11

make this process one that is readily established. 12

With that, any other comments? 13

SENATOR DILAN: Yes, I would like to discuss 14

an issue which I believe that I have been bringing 15

before this committee which I believe started at the 16

very, very first hearing that we held. First of all, 17

at that time, I requested that this task force come up 18

with a transparent criteria that the public and 19

advocates could use and be guided by when they make 20

their submissions. I think during the 14 hearings 21

there were several individuals that testified with 22

respect to the size of the Senate, some advocating for 23

63, but a lot more testifying that the Senate should 24

remain at 62 as the constitution of the State of New 25

York requires in the 1894 formula. I want to know how 26




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

last Friday at 5:00 p.m. in a very obscure spot of the 2

LATFOR Senate website a new policy memo appears 3

without the ratification of this panel. I want to 4

know how that happens and who authorized that. I 5

would like to know if that attorney is a staff member 6

of LATFOR or is he an outside consultant. 7

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator Dilan, you’re 8

referring to a memo from an attorney named Michael 9

Carbon who has been retained by this task force as—he 10

was retained by this task force in 2002 and in 1992 11

and it’s my understanding that Attorney Carbon placed 12

a memo after analyzing the tenets of the New York 13

State constitution and of which it was his 14

responsibility as counsel to this task force to—that 15

that report or analysis, if you will, just as he made 16

an analysis in 2002, was placed on the task force in 17

the same protocols that were established 10 years ago. 18

Now, it’s not a subject of—certainly 19

everyone is entitled to their opinion and I think that 20

those who testified, some of which are former Senate 21

Democrat staff members, during the course of the 22

hearing, who indicated as they were legally disclosed, 23

they were former staff members of the Senate Minority, 24

that they indicated in their testimony that they 25

believe the size of the Senate should be a certain 26




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

number. It’s my understanding that the attorney for 2

this task force placed—in placing his memo on the 3

LATFOR website and analyzed those submissions and 4

dealt with them in his memorandum. His recommendation 5

is based on his analysis of the New York State 6

constitution. A constitution that derives a formula. 7

That constitution says that the assembly is fixed at 8

150. It also derives a formula that the Senate is 9

established through population growth and population 10

analysis and that analysis was done. It was done by 11

the attorney and that analysis was placed for the 12

public to review on the LATFOR website. Whether it 13

was 5:00 or—at night or 5:00 in the morning, it was 14

placed on the website when it was completed and that 15

analysis is for everyone to review. They’ll have 16

ample opportunity to review that analysis prior to the 17

beginnings of our second round of hearings. We assume 18

that certainly those that are interested will have the 19

opportunity to review that memo, to make their 20

comments known in the additional round of hearings 21

that we are going to be conducting beginning at the 22

end of this month. 23

SENATOR DILAN: Yeah, we can belabor this 24

for quite a while here today. I didn’t know that an 25

outside-retained attorney has the ability on his own 26




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

to place something on our website without our approval 2

so before we will conclude today, I would like to make 3

a motion that any policy changes needs to be approved 4

by this panel in public before it’s done so I’m going 5

to make that as a form of a motion. Also, as a member 6

of this task force, I will be asking the Attorney 7

General of the State of New York to review that memo 8

and I will be asking for an Attorney General opinion 9

based on that memo. 10

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: It is certainly within 11

your rights to ask for anything, we should also know 12

that memos to the contrary were placed on our website 13

through the testimony of Mr. Brightbard, who I believe 14

testified at least twice, probably three or four 15

times, and I know the Senate Democrats also had some 16

surrogates for Mr. Brightbard who, when he could not 17

be at a hearing, someone else testified. I remember 18

answering—asking some of those attorneys questions. 19

Their testimony is on the website as well. 20

How do you define this motion— 21

SENATOR DILAN: [Interposing] I would like 22

to ask you a question— 23

[crosstalk] 24

SENATOR DILAN: —I would just like to 25

comment in response to that— 26




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, I am still 2

talking— 3

SENATOR DILAN: [Interposing] You also have 4

your surrogates— 5

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: —I still have the floor, 6

Senator— 7

SENATOR DILAN: [Interposing] You also have 8

your census of every single county by way of— 9

SENTOR NOZZOLIO: —I am surprised you 10

interrupt me while I still have the floor, Senator. 11

SENATOR DILAN: Go ahead. 12

SENTOR NOZZOLIO: I am very surprised at 13

that. I know you don’t do that often, but I’m not 14

going to allow it in this case. I had yet not yielded 15

and I guess, in conclusion of my remarks, as a 16

question to you. What do you define as a policy 17

change and how can that be defined within the 18

ramifications of this task force? 19

SENATOR DILAN: Well, I know that when we 20

started these proceedings, I have commented I believe 21

at every single public hearing that the public has the 22

right to know if we’re going to drawing these lines 23

based on 62 or any other number, and I never got an 24

answer to that question from anyone on this panel. 25

You keep referring to Mr. Brightbard, who was a former 26




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

staff person, and he was a former staff person before 2

I got to the Senate, which is about 10 years ago which 3

he has not worked here, but also you referred to other 4

surrogates that we may have had testify, I know none 5

of those individuals. Mr. Brightbard never worked for 6

me. He was never here while I was a state Senator. 7

But I do want to include in the record that your 8

conference had many surrogates via, via, law firms and 9

people who really had no idea or interest of the 10

redistricting process. They were all basically 11

verbatim, had the same testimony at every single 12

district and county throughout the state. 13

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator— 14

SENATOR DILAN: And their testimony is also 15

on the website. 16

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, please address 17

the question. You have a motion before the committee. 18

SENATOR DILAN: Ok 19

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: And the question, there 20

is no second to that motion. I respectfully asked you 21

what do you define as policy change. 22

SENATOR DILAN: A policy change is that your 23

legal counsel since 2002 has a memo on our website and 24

on Friday of last week, just as your leader announces 25

that the Senate will increase by one seat, which I 26




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

believe you made the comment Tuesday of last week. On 2

Friday you had a policy change with his new memo where 3

he use—you have a result—you have the result you know 4

you want 63 then he uses inconsistent methods of using 5

four counties. You use one method which was the way 6

he advocated for over 10 years on the website and then 7

the other two counties uses the reverse so you can get 8

the end result and how does your legal counsel, 9

without coming to the public or before this panel, 10

like Mr. Brightbard, and like every single other 11

surrogate who came before this panel, this was done in 12

the darkness of night. It did not appear before the 13

public and there it is, a new memo. 14

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: So, I take it that there 15

is a motion on the floor, it has not been seconded. 16

With that there will be no vote on it. And I would be 17

glad to discuss these policy issues with you that I 18

think that the Senator Majority leader was asked a 19

question and that he provided a very candid answer to 20

that he knew that there was an issue under review, 21

that is issue has been under review for months by the 22

counsel as brought forth by Mr. Brightbard’s analysis, 23

and that certainly can be reviewed on our website, 24

both Mr. Brightbard’s analysis and the counsel’s 25

analysis of that hearing. Any—someone else. 26




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

ASSEMBLY MEMBER ROBERT OAKS, NEW YORK STATE 2

LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND 3

REAPPORTIONMENT: Just to the, the, co-chairs, I guess 4

I would just add and, as Senator Dilan has, has, 5

raised the question, I did not second it although I 6

see some reasons for putting that out as a motion, I 7

guess my concern is if we create that and we always 8

have to have meeting before something goes on the 9

website, I’m not sure that we can keep information 10

flowing in the way that is needed perhaps. From my 11

perspective, I would suggest though that perhaps when 12

things of substance are added to the website, perhaps 13

notification of the members of this task force would 14

at least perhaps allow review and keeping information 15

flowing. So I would just offer that as a thought as 16

we move forward. 17

SENATOR DILAN: I would just like to make a 18

final comment. You know, I’m really surprised that 19

you did not second it. The majority is in both houses 20

will totally ignore me and you and many of the 21

citizens of the State of New York and as we can see 22

what the outcome is going to be here is the same as it 23

has been for over 50 years and technically I believe 24

that the hearings that we held preliminary are a farce 25

and waste of time and money. 26




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: Senator, I would 2

take except to that. My minority member is a 3

classmate. We get along very well. I try to keep him 4

informed of things and will be doing so more 5

intensely. I did not second your amendment because I 6

am not sure what the legal definition of policy is. 7

Policy could be all kinds of things and it could tie 8

up a process which we’re trying to accelerate because 9

of the federal court coming out we hope in a short 10

time giving us a—an almost unworkable primary date and 11

to interject a bureaucracy and perhaps the figurative 12

monk squall of—is that a policy issue or not a policy 13

issue on something that just popped up today, it just 14

didn’t look like something that I could second or 15

support. What’s policy? I think there’s probably 30 16

different opinions here in this room, all from people 17

of good will. I think that’s a pretty sweeping 18

structural change and I worry where it would go where 19

it would be passed ever to be passed as a resolution. 20

SENATOR DILAN: I would just like to say 21

thank you. It is business as usual. Thank you. 22

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Any other comments that 23

made before this commission—committee? With that, 24

Assemblyman. 25

ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: One comment that 26




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

our goal is still to start public hearings before the 2

end of the month, but those of you who are looking for 3

maps, it has been long been the custom that no less 4

than seven days notice would be given and with that 5

notice would be the maps. It is our goal, we haven’t 6

arrived at the exact schedule yet because we do not 7

want people planning for some date that might be 8

changed, but things are moving swiftly. We have—hope 9

to have those maps out at least seven days prior to 10

the first hearing. 11

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you very much. 12

(The public hearing concluded at 2:00 p.m.) 13


Prisoner Count and Reallocation, 1-10-12


Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

C E R T I F I C A T E

I, Zola K. Dickerson, do hereby certify that the foregoing

typewritten transcription, consisting of pages number 1 to

30, inclusive, is a true record prepared by me and

completed from materials provided to me.

Zola K. Dickerson,

Transcriptionist

January 16, 2012


EXHIBIT 3


STATE OF NEW YORK LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE

ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND REAPPORTIONMENT

PUBLIC MEETING

LEGISLATIVE REDISTRICTING RECOMMENDATION

State Capitol Building, Room 123

Albany, New York

Wednesday, March 14, 2012

11:00 a.m.


Legislative Redistricting Recommendation, 3-14-2012


Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

TASK FORCE MEMBERS PRESENT:

SENATOR MICHAEL F. NOZZOLIO, Co-chair

ASSEMBLY MEMBER JOHN J. MCENENY, Co-chair

SENATOR MARTIN M. DILAN

ASSEMBLY MEMBER ROBERT OAKS

ROMAN HEDGES

DEBRA LEVINE

WELQUIS LOPEZ




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

INDEX

Page MICHAEL F. NOZZOLIO 4 SENATOR, CO-CHAIR NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON

DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND REAPPORTIONMENT WELQUIS LOPEZ 4 NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND REAPPORTIONMENT JOHN J. MCENENY 5 ASSEMBLYMAN, CO-CHAIR NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATURE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND REAPPORTIONMENT MARTIN M. DILAN 5 SENATOR NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATURE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND REAPPORTIONMENT ROMAN HEDGES 11

NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND REAPPORTIONMENT


1 Legislative Redistricting Recommendation, 3-14-2012


Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

(The public meeting commenced at 11:00 2

a.m.) 3

SENATOR MICHAEL F. NOZZOLIO, CO-CHAIR, 4

NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON 5

DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND REAPPORTIONMENT: Good 6

morning. Good morning. The meeting of the New 7

York State Legislative Task Force on Demographic 8

Research and Reapportionment will come to order. 9

My name is Mike Nozzolio. I am the 10

Senate Co-chair of this task force along with my 11

colleague and dear friend Assemblyman Jack 12

McEneny. This meeting is an important one. 13

Without further ado, I would like to introduce 14

the Senate representatives on this task force. 15

To my immediate left is Senator Martin Dilan. To 16

his left is our citizen representative on the 17

task force, Welquis Ray Lopez. 18

WELQUIS LOPEZ, NEW YORK STATE 19

LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH 20

AND REAPPORTIONMENT: Thank you. 21

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: And to his left is 22

co-executive director of the task force Debra 23

Levine. 24




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Assemblyman, would you be so kind as to 2

introduce the assembly-- 3

ASSEMBLY MEMBER JOHN J. MCENENY, CO-4

CHAIR, NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON 5

DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND REAPPORTIONMENT: 6

Assemblyman Jack McEneny, Co-Chair. I'm 7

representing the assembly. To my right, Bob 8

Oaks. Member of the Assembly representing the 9

minority in the assembly. To his right, Dr. 10

Roman Hedges who is the citizen representative on 11

the task force. 12

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: This task force has an 13

important responsibility, an obligation today. 14

It's a culmination of over 23 hearings in every 15

area of New York State, a plan that has been 16

proposed and proffered, and before consideration 17

I'd ask members of the task force if they have 18

any comments. Senator Dilan. 19

SENATOR MARTIN M. DILAN, NEW YORK STATE 20

LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH 21

AND REAPPORTIONMENT: Good morning, everyone. 22

I'd just like to make several comments. First of 23

all, I was seriously considering boycotting this 24




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

meeting this morning. I know that we did hold 23 2

hearings throughout the state of New York. We 3

had several business meetings where we did make 4

several commitments to the citizens of the state 5

of New York, and the reason I was considering 6

boycotting this meeting this morning is because 7

as I indicated once before, the entire process 8

has been a farce, a sham, has been a waste of 9

money, and I believe that we have not listened to 10

the citizens of the state of New York, and the 11

plan that's being presented today to the 12

Legislature is something that's putting the cart 13

before the horse. These bills were introduced at 14

about 11:50 p.m., just before midnight on Sunday. 15

Those bills were presented to the Legislature 16

without this panel taking a vote or making any 17

sort of recommendation, so it's really not a - - 18

plan. Those bills that are being voted in both 19

houses today are McEneny Nozzoilo Bill, LES - - 20

Silver Bills, and this entire process I indicated 21

was a total waste of time and it's--we failed 22

miserably in our mission and this meeting today 23

is itself a sham. The proposed lines were 24




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

introduced. The first proposals were introduced 2

to the public without a vote by this panel. 3

Again, legislation was presented without a vote 4

by this panel. With respect to the Senate, an 5

additional seat was added without any action 6

taken by this panel. So, who decided that there 7

should be a 63rd seat? We didn't do that. I 8

would like to know that. I understand also that 9

with these lines there may be a proposal for 10

reforming this entire process. When will there 11

hearings to have community input with respect to 12

those reforms--so, in essence, what we're doing 13

here today is just confirming what the two 14

leaders of respective Houses want with no real 15

input from communities of interest. I think we 16

heard people in Long Island indicate that there 17

could be an additional minority seat in the 18

Senate out in Long Island. There could be 19

another one in Rochester, and there is also the 20

splitting of Niagra and Buffalo in Erie County, 21

and again, the entire process is a total waste of 22

time. 23

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Senator 24




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

Dilan. Any other members of the task force wish 2

to make a statement? I do wish to respond in 3

part to Senator Dilan's comments. That I 4

certainly have enjoyed working with him through 5

the past few months, in hearing from citizens all 6

across the state. 7

The measure proffered today is in full 8

compliance with the United States' Constitution, 9

the New York State Constitution, the Federal 10

Voting Rights Act, and all applicable state law 11

that--including the law that was thrust upon this 12

task force on the prison counting, and I should 13

add, that measure was established in the New York 14

State Senate without so much as a single whisper 15

of a hearing. Senator Dilan, I may remind you of 16

that. Unfortunately, though, the law is the law, 17

regardless, and we took great steps and I want to 18

personally thank - - members of the Task Force. 19

A member of the Task Force, Roman Hedges, for his 20

leadership and support and assistance in ensuring 21

that the Section 20 of the Laws of New York State 22

were fully complied with and that that prison 23

counting issue was part of the series of laws 24




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

that were conduct--that this body has fully 2

complied. There is a new Asian seat created, an 3

Asian minority majority seat created in the State 4

Senate--the first time in the Senate's history. 5

That seat was a direct reflection of a number of 6

discussions, primarily in the public hearings 7

that took place twice in Queens. There were over 8

approximately ten hours of hearings in Queens and 9

then the Asian-American seat created was created 10

as a result of those discussions. There are also 11

13 minority majority districts in this state. 12

Five of those districts were under the major--13

minority majority numbers as a result of the 2010 14

United States Census, and I'm very pleased 15

through the work of this task force that every 16

minority district was not only preserved but 17

strengthened in spite of shifting population 18

trends within the city of New York. 19

There are a number of other comments I 20

could make, but I want to make the task force for 21

their work, particularly the staff. That there 22

were a number of advertisements that existed 23

prior to the first round of hearings and prior to 24




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

the second round of hearings. Those 2

advertisements were placed in foreign language 3

newspaper including Chinese, Korean, and Spanish. 4

With newspapers also utilized by the African 5

American and Indo-Caribbean American communities 6

throughout New York publicizing the hearings and 7

trying to ensure maximum participation. For the 8

first time in our State's history, LATFOR 9

established a website, and use of the internet 10

was extensive. That we took comment, posted 11

notice of public hearing and had a great deal of 12

input as a result of that website. Without 13

further ado, though, Assemblyman McEneny. 14

ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: Thank you, 15

Senator. I wanted to thank the members of the 16

LATFOR staff, and when we get to the floor, I'll 17

mention some of the staff that have backed us up 18

as well as the members here, and I would just 19

point out that for people who feel that this 20

process was dragged out, that in fact we are 21

weeks ahead of approving of a legislative plan 22

and months ahead of approving a congressional 23

plan compared to years gone by, and the reason 24




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

for that is that the change has not been in the 2

performance of LATFOR in terms of the calendar, 3

but rather the changing of the calendar as 4

ordered by the justice department. We don't have 5

the time that we've had in the past, and I think 6

our job now--and I know this will be debated in 7

greater detail because our job now is to take the 8

work, which is the latest work and the final work 9

of LATFOR and pass it on for recommendation by 10

consideration by the two Houses of the 11

legislature, and so unless someone else wishes to 12

make a comment. Did you…? 13

ROMAN HEDGES, NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATIVE 14

TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND 15

REAPPORTIONMENT: Just in the way of information 16

about things that we've done, I'm real pleased 17

about the prison adjustment and I want to thank 18

all of you for helping in that. The staff--the 19

joint staff in particular was just 20

extraordinarily helpful all the way through. 21

Both the cartographic staff headed by Chris Ruiz 22

[phonetic] and the demographic staff headed by 23

Isaac Pheffer [phonetic] did just a great job. 24




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

On substance, in the assembly side of the 2

proposal that's going to the legislature we were 3

able to create three additional majority Hispanic 4

districts, one additional African-American 5

district, two additional Asian-American 6

districts, and I think that that's a remarkable 7

accomplishment, and I'm particularly pleased 8

about that, and with that having been said, I 9

think I'm finished for the day. 10

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you very much, 11

Assemblyman. I would remiss if I didn't also 12

thank our other citizen representative on the 13

task force. Welquis Ray Lopez was invaluable 14

throughout this process, even acted as 15

interpreter during some of our hearings. We 16

appreciate his efforts and call above and beyond 17

the call of duty and thank you very much for your 18

great work. 19

MR. WELQUIS LOPEZ: Thank you very much. 20

SENATOR DILAN: May I move that the 21

final report of LATFOR be advance to the 22

legislature for its consideration? 23

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: There's a motion on 24




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

consideration. Is there a second? 2

ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: Second. 3

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Motion's been moved 4

and seconded. It's up for consideration. 5

Senator Dilan. 6

SENATOR DILAN: Is anything in writing 7

that you're presenting us today in terms of what 8

you're actually submitting to the legislature or 9

can you at least give us an outline of what 10

you're talking about? 11

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: It's the books that 12

have been distributed to all the members and 13

there are extra copies I believe on the desk to 14

the members. 15

SENATOR DILAN: So, the only thing that 16

you're forwarding to legislature is the Assembly 17

and Senate lines, nothing else? 18

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: At this time, that's 19

all I believe the law requires. 20

SENATOR DILAN: All right. Thank you. 21

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Senator 22

Dilan. This motion for consideration has been 23

seconded. All those in favor? 24




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: Aye. 2

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye. Opposed? 3

SENATOR DILAN: Aye. 4

SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator Dilan. 5

Motion's carried. The work of the task force has 6

been completed. Thank you very, very much. 7

SENATOR DILAN: Thank you. 8

ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: Thank you. 9

(The public meeting concluded at 11:13 10

a.m.) 11




Phone: 212-227-7440 * 800-221-7242 * Fax: 212-227-7524

C E R T I F I C A T E

I, Christine Morrell, do hereby certify that the foregoing

typewritten transcription, consisting of pages number 1 to

15, inclusive, is a true record prepared by me and

completed from materials provided to me.

Christine Morrell, Transcriptionist

March 15, 2012 Date


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