Meeting Number 2 of the Grand Junction Socratic Club

December 17th, 2011

Notes for SlideShare presentation

The following slides are basically the ones used in the presentation I gave at our second Socratic Club meeting. Many of the points require further elaboration to be made well, but the slides here presented give a basic idea.

At this club meeting, the opposing position was given in the form of a video presentation of Sam Harris’s TED talk on the subject.

(Source, unless otherwise indicated: Merriam Webster)

Sciencethe state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding

Scientific Methodthe collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses

Morality -> Moralof or relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior, ethical

Ethics The science of morality; the department of study concerned with human duty (Oxford English Dictionary)

TranscendentalismMoral guidelines exist independently from the human mind

EmpiricismMorality is a contrivance of the human mind

Edward O. Wilson – American biologist, theorist, naturalist and author. Well-known secular humanist and chief proponent of “sociobiology.”

The choice between transcendentalism and empiricism will be the coming century's version of the struggle for

men's souls. Moral reasoning will either remain centered in idioms of theology and philosophy, where it is now, or

shift toward science-based material analysis. Where it settles will depend on which world view is proved

correct, or at least which is more widely perceived to be correct.

Edward O. Wilson, The Atlantic, 1998

Usually we end up talking about the origin of morality (backward looking)

The origin of moral judgment is not the real issue, although it would be an interesting discussion

Morality, as in the determination of intrinsic “right” and “wrong” is outside the realm of science

Ockham’s razor is the best way of deciding who needs to demonstrate the burden of proof

http://www.ted.com/talks/sam_harris_science_can_show_what_s_right.html

If you haven’t watched it, do it now and come back

Emotionally based argumentation, evidenced by Harris’s quotes…

“Now the irony, from my perspective, is that the only people who seem to seem to generally agree with me and who think that there are right and wrong answers to moral questions are religious demagogues of one form or another.”

“And of course they think they have the right answers to moral questions because they got these answers from a voice in a whirlwind, not because they made an intelligent analysis of the causes and condition of human and animal well-being.”

He uses emotionally charged slides, such as this one of 3 ugly old men that no one much likes, to demonize opponents

Questions that Arise

How do we define “well-being”?

Is it at an individual or group level?

What happens when the well-being of two individuals or two groups are in competition?

To what degree is an individual given autonomy in deciding their own well-being, and what is the role of society in forcing it’s own conception of “well-being” on an autonomous individual?

Let’s Take the Example of Islamic Treatment of Women and ask, what is the science behind these underlying assumptions: Women should have

personal choice about their clothing

It’s wrong for a woman to be raped

It’s wrong for a raped woman to be killed

The life of the womanhas more value than thehonor of her father

Someday we’ll be able to scan a brain and quantify whether the position of the Afghan father is not based on love

Yet, we already can identify the physical seat of emotions, yet it has not clarified the moral landscape

Consider The Question of the genetic factors in the origin ofPsychopaths

“Values are facts about the well-being of conscious creatures”

“Why is it that we don’t have ethical obligations toward rocks … because we don’t think that rocks can suffer”

“We know, we know that there are right and wrong answers to how to move in this space [ the human condition ]”

“How is the Talliban’s ignorance on the subject of human well-being any less obvious [than their ignorance on the subject of physics]?”

“Positive social emotion, like empathy and compassion…”

Science is concerned with “what is”

Morality and human values deal with “what ought to be”

This is a key difference that is often overlooked

According to Edward O. Wilson: Ought is the translation not of human nature but of the public will

Wilson also says: “Most of these proximate rewards are converted into the universal bottom line of Darwinian genetic fitness: greater longevity and a secure, growing family.”

You “ought” to rid society of inferior beings (expression of Public Will)Nazi Death Camps

You “ought” to obey orders of your societal superiors without question(expression of Public Will)Operate those death camps

I ought to make room for my national family to grow and prosper(Secure, growing family)Implementation of German “Lebensraum” policy

Example: Corporal Punishment of Children Set a standard for human well-

being Evaluate scientific evidence

from brain studies Scientific evidence from a study

of different population groups Setting up of experiments and

judging results Establishing a moral code based

on the standard of “human well-being” we have established

Let’s try it out

Example: Sand Creek Massacre, United States

Let’s discuss this massacre in a scientific manner andcome to a moralconclusion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_Creek_massacre

Colonel Chivington

Jis to think of that dog Chivingtonand his dirty hounds, up thar at Sand Creek. His men shot down squaws, and blew the brains out of little innocent children. You call sichsoldiers Christians, do ye? And Indians savages? What der yer 'sposeour Heavenly Father, who made both them and us, thinks of these things? I tell you what, I don't like a hostile red skin any more than you do. And when they are hostile, I've fought 'em, hard as any man. But I never yet drew a bead on a squaw or papoose, and I despise the man who would.

Kit Carson

The Grand Junction Socratic Club

Meeting the 1st and 3rd Saturdays of Every Month

For more information, please email info@gjsocraticclub.org