Bridging the Gap: Using Legal Skills to Connect 1Ls and LLMs

American UniversityWashington College of LawJessica Ciani-DauschCatherine Schenker

Integration problem

WCL has a large international LLM population

75% of entering JDs say that they chose WCL because of an interest in international law

Many JDs never speak to an LLM during their 3 years at WCL

LLMs leave the ILSP with a large network of international contacts but few American ones.

Integration Pros

Students broaden their horizons Culture Practice of law

Professional Contacts Friendship

Obstacles to Integration

Language issues Attitudes and stereotypes on both sides No time LLMs are not familiar with US law schools

Culture of study groups, outlines Teachers and administrators have to help

Integration activities

The ILSP LLM program organizes various activities throughout the year: Practicing Law in ___ series

LLMs talk about the practice of law in their home country International Week with a pot luck dinner Various cultural events such as a Ramadan iftar

Legal Rhetoric Program plays a different role; focused on first-year legal writing class

Integration through legal skills Legal Rhetoric program and the ILSP

decided to organize a joint activity to bring 1Ls and LLMs together

Why Legal Rhetoric? Legal Rhetoric program teaches the practical side

of the law, and we wanted to have a real-life exercise

1Ls and LLMs have similar struggles as they enter US law school

Interest of the teachers

Integration through legal skills LLMs asked for:

Oral Skills practice Negotiation practice Contract drafting Programs with JDs

JDs asked for: Real-life lawyering skills All things “international”

Creating an LLM/JD Exercise

Our first idea: A multinational company attempting to acquire a

diamond mine in an African country American and European lawyers interpreting local

rules differently Negotiation between buyers and sellers Oral argument on behalf of buyers before local

regulators to get approval of purchase

Creating an LLM/JD Exercise

What we didn’t want: Topics that required previous legal training Anything that would require more than an

hour or two of preparation by participants Topics that could be politically or culturally

sensitive An exercise that would require more than one

day to complete Topics that are complicated to understand

Creating an LLM/JD Exercise

The topic we chose: Child custody issue Originally considered conflicting laws from two

jurisdictions, but decided that was too complicated Wanted practice with oral skills, so decided to focus

on negotiation and client meetings Picked state of California as jurisdiction where

parties would end up if negotiations failed

Child Custody Facts

US mother and Egyptian father Couple met and married in California, where son was

born Father is Muslim; mother is agnostic; father has large

family in Egypt; mother has no living family; son has visited father’s family in Egypt many times

Family subsequently moved to Singapore, Paris, and Hong Kong for father’s job

Couple temporarily separated when mother returned to California with son and father took job in Egypt

Couple decided to divorce and both want custody of son (8 years old)

Getting Student Participants

Email to entire LLM class describing exercise; 13 students signed-up

Email to entire 1L JD class describing exercise Visits to 1L international law elective courses After initial 1L response (60), emailed those

students asking for a few paragraphs explaining why they were interested in the exercise

From that group (27), selected 12

Preparation Materials

Students received a packet of materials the week before the conference

Packet contained: brief description of facts summaries and excerpts of California child custody cases information on the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects

of International Child Abduction summary of Egyptian custody law and treatment of foreign

court orders negotiation tips and strategies

Exercise Materials

US dollar costs of raising a child Template child custody agreement that

groups could use if desired (included status of custody, schedule of visitation, telephone communications, religion, child’s travel expenses, and child support)

Father’s lawyers received list of specific cultural and religious requirements for child

The Exercise

Exercise took 4 hours Students on teams of 4 (2 JDs, 2 LLMs) Began with an introduction session Meeting with client First round of negotiations Second meeting with client Second round of negotiations Debriefing and Reception

The student reviews

LLM students have a wealth of knowledge that the JD students can learn from.

I enjoyed the opportunity to negotiate an agreement working in a team made of people with completely different approaches with regard to the same problem.

It was interesting to see how other cultures really focused on the “mother as the care-giver” as opposed to ours.

The LLMs were very helpful and loved talking to us JDs on a personal level about future career pursuits.

It was a wonderful and well-balanced intercultural experience. It was very helpful to have law students and lawyers from different countries in the same negotiating team.

What would we do differently? Have the teams meet earlier in the week to

discuss strategy Host a second session for the students to

watch videos of the negotiations Start advertising the exercise earlier to give

more students a chance to sign up Pick one additional set of 8 students

The Future

We hope to repeat the program every semester

Pick a different topic each time Work on different skills

Rule creation Synthesis Contract drafting

The Future

Synchronize the exercise with the topics covered in the Legal Rhetoric and American Legal Institutions (legal research and writing for LLMs) classes