board minutes december 2007

8/8/2019 Board Minutes December 2007

http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/board-minutes-december-2007 1/41

1

WISCONSIN DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRSWDVA Briefing of December 13, 2007

Union Grove, Wisconsin

Board Members Present Council on Veterans Programs Present

Peter Moran Russ Alsteen, NCUSAMarv Freedman Paul Bialk, MCLRodney C. Moen Cleon Brown, USSVWWIIJackie Guthrie Rick Cherone, MOPHWilliam Andersen Donna Chrzas, CVSOWalter Stenavich Phil Cote, Am. Legion

Mark Foreman, VVAWLegislative & Program Review Members Present Bill Hustad, WVVMarv Freedman Chris Kanios, VFWVera Roddy John Margowski, VVASteve Lawrence Max Oleson, ARCDuane Miskulin Jerry Rabetski, PLAVJim Young Clif Sorenson, WACVOTim Thiers Clarence Stoel, DAVMike Furgal Tim Thiers, AMVETSScott Berger Paul Weprinsky, JWVPaul Weprinsky

Others Present

Long Term Care Committee Members Present Gus Sorenson, WI Paralyzed VeteransRod Moen Don Fell, WI paralyzed VeteransJackie Guthrie Ken Brown, Ozaukee CVSOLewis Harned Bill Crivello, DAV MemberRick Scollon Marcie Stuekart, Am. Legion AuxiliaryJerry Polus Jim Young, Vernon CVSOChristine Jordan Marcia Ziegler, Clark CVSO Staff Mary Meyer Roger Fetterly, MOAAAlan Walker Robert Cocroft, CVI PresidentKen Wendt

WDVA Staff Members Present

Financial Committee Members Present John A. Scocos, SecretaryBill Andersen Bill Kloster, Deputy SecretaryWalter Stenavich Anthony Hardie, Executive AssistantAl Richards Bill Crowley, Commandant, KingMike Demske Jimmy Stewart, Chief Legal CounselJim Gausmann Ken Abrahamsen, Budget DirectorJoe Campbell Colleen Holtan, Budget OfficeAl Kochenderfer Mike Diaz, Division AdministratorBill Hustad Gary Wistrom, Acting Commandant, WVH-UG

Ken Black, Division of Veterans BenefitsCVSO Advisory Council Present Andy Schuster, Public Affairs DirectorJon LiDonne, CVSO Association President Mel Brandl, Regional Coordinator

Mark Grams, Dodge CVSO Nate Nez, Regional CoordinatorJohn Solis, Rock CVSO Pat Shaughnessy, Deputy CommandantRobert Stone, Winnebago CVSO Ken Grant, Bureau of Program ServicesNick Benzinger, Shawano CVSO Seth Perelman, Division AdministratorTed Mynyk, Iowa CVSO Julie Van Metre, Executive Staff AssistantFred Kaiser, Waushara CVSO



2

The briefing session by WDVA staff for Board, Council and Committee members commencedat 1:10 pm. The Pledge of Allegiance was led by John A. Scocos followed by a moment of silence inmemory of former WDVA Secretary John Moses, those missing in action, and prisoners of war.

1. Certification of Notice of Meeting and Roll CallIt was certified that the meeting was properly noticed.

Roll call of Board members: 6 members present for a quorum.Roll call of Legislative and Program Review Committee members: 9 members present for a quorum.Roll call of Long-Term Care Committee members: 9 members present for a quorum.

Roll call of Financial Committee members: 8 members present for a quorum.Roll call of Council on Veterans Programs members: 16 members present for a quorum.

Pete Moran welcomed home Secretary John A Scocos from his presence out in the freedomfrontier.

2. Board Committee AppointmentBoard Chairman Moran appointed Marcia Anderson to serve as Vice Chair of the Legislative

and Program Review Committee.

3. Legislative Report

Anthony Hardie reported that in the Senate, Congress has been having challenges in the lastcouple of months. It looks unlikely that anything but two measures will be addressed before the end of the year: an omnibus appropriations act as well as a fix for the alternative minimum tax (AMT). TheHouse is currently considering a continuing resolution regarding the appropriations act in order for thegovernment to continue operations. The Qualified Veterans Mortgage Bond issue is included in H.R.3997 known as the Heroes Earnings Assistance and Relief Tax Act (HEART) which was passed in theHouse of Representatives. We hope to see some action in the Senate soon.

Mr. Hardie said the Department had the opportunity to testify at a number of legislativehearings at the State Capitol. The Department testified in favor of SB 307, veterans’ tuitionreimbursement program. Assembly Bill 555 is the companion bill and both will remove the

requirement for a pre-application. About 5.6% of all applications filed for the VetEd Program havebeen denied due to pre-application reasons. Other bills having a hearing and for which the Departmentprovided testimony in favor were: AB 370 relating to commercial driver license testing for militarylicense holders, The Department also registered in favor of AB 32 prohibiting employmentdiscrimination because an individual is or applies to be a member of the national guard; AB 80 relatingto special distinguishing registration plates for persons who have had an immediate family member diewhile in military service; and AB 351 designating a bridge in Columbia County as the Veterans of theAmerican Revolution Memorial Bridge. A Committee executive session was held on all of the abovebills on December 6th and they all were voted out of Committee on a 5-0 vote, including AB 75,assistance for veterans affected by depleted uranium.

The Senate Committee on Higher Education held a hearing on November 14th

that began withan informational briefing on the veterans tuition remission and Mr. Hardie gave a presentation andanswered questions on the WI GI Bill, the federal GI Bill and various veterans educational programs atall levels. The essence of the hearing was that this is an important program, the legislature issupportive of it, but there are funding issues. Senate Bill 100 was also heard, this expands theWisconsin GI Bill with regards to residency so that only ten years of continuous residency would berequired. Mr. Hardie testified in favor, he noted that Vets for Vets, the student organization forveterans on the UW campus testified against not because they didn’t support the concept of the bill butbecause they thought ten years wasn’t short enough, they wanted between one and five year’sresidency. On December 12th there was a hearing of the Assembly Veterans Affairs Committee and



4

resolution passed the Assembly on December 11th and was referred to the Senate. This is a key issuefor the Legislature and Mr. Hardie anticipates additional discussion. There are a number of agenciesimpacted in various ways by this legislation. Mr. Freedman said there seems to be a potential that aconstitutional amendment would go through even with the amendment and that there would be somearguments made as far as the kinds of transfers that WDVA makes internally, among various veteransaffairs related accounts, as not what the authors and cosponsors of this bill are going after. Mr.Freedman asked that Mr. Hardie apprise the Board at its February meeting as to whether it would beadvisable to draft for introduction and enactment legislation that would anticipate possible challengeswith these transfers if the constitutional amendment were to go through. Issues were documented by

WDVA in a December 11th letter addressed to the Speaker and Minority Leader in the Assembly withcopies to the co-authors and Governor’s office, the Senate Veterans Committee and other key leadersin the legislature. Mr. Moen asked the Secretary to send a similar letter to the leadership of bothparties in the Senate and also to those individuals who have signed on to the bill.

Mr. Hardie provided a written report of recent events, activities, and outreach that have takenplace since the last meeting of the Wisconsin Board of Veterans Affairs, including:

• Supermarket of Veterans Benefits on October 23rd

in Baraboo

• Consulate General of France presentation of French Legion of Honor Awards on October 25th in Milwaukee

• Supermarket of Veterans Benefits on November 6 & 7 in Waukesha, over 800 attended

• Veterans Day ceremonies at the Northern, Southern and King Cemeteries as well as at theState Capitol

• Dedication of Klein Hall in Chippewa Falls

• Pearl Harbor Day ceremonies at King and Union Grove

• The Fall 2007 Forward Veterans newsletter is on WDVA’s website

• Gulf War Illnesses Recognition Day Conference will be held on January 17th in Madison

• Stakeholders Conference and Salute to the Legislature will be on February 20th at the MononaTerrace and Convention Center in Madison from noon to 5 p.m.

4. Programs ReportKen Black reported that the following CVSO Bulletins were sent out:

• Bulletin #811 announcing modifications to the Assistance to Needy Veterans Grant

• Bulletin #812 announcing a decrease in the Primary Mortgage Loan interest rate

• Bulletin #815 announcing changes to the Assistance to Needy Veterans Grant Program

State Veterans Cemeteries

• Expansion at the Northern Cemetery nearly completed

• 14 columbarium interments remain to be scheduled

Veterans Homeless Program (VAP)

• VAP Klein Hall dedicated on December 4th with about 150 attendees

• VAP received over $1,100 in cash donations in November, as well as $14,000 worth of furniture and equipment from the Naval Reserve Unit that recently closed in Duluth

• Meeting with Tribal Benefit Specialists and other tribal personnel

• One SRO room is filled at Chippewa Falls, 11 pending applications for that VAP program

• Working with Southern Wisconsin Center to mothball Cottage 1. At Cottage 15, 5 of theSROs are occupied.

• PERMAR was selected to provide security at Ft. McCoy

• VAP received federal VA per diem increase to $31.30 per day



5

VetEd Grant Program

• Wisconsin G.I. Bill to 100% at UW and Technical Colleges, the Department is preparing for asurge of applications.

National Guard Reintegration

• Since August the Department has participated in four events, serving over 550 returnees.WDVA will be supporting another five events through July 2008.

State Approving Agency (SAA)• The SAA works with the Wisconsin Institute of Higher Learning to prevent waste, fraud and

abuse of the Montgomery GI Bill. WDVA staff meets with individuals at schools acrossWisconsin to determine if they meet the criteria for the federal Montgomery GI Bill. Severalnew schools may soon be approved—a commercial flight training course in Madison, twocosmetology schools in the Fox Valley, and an AMT paramedic training at Janesville Hospital.

Troops to Teachers (TTT)

• We continue to work with our Congressional delegation and the NASDVA to increase thenumber of school districts where TTT participants can teach.

Loans• Loan volume in the Home Loan Program was $5.5 million in October and $1.9 million in

November

• Loan volume in the Personal Loan Program was $308,370 in October and $319,563 inNovember

• Loan volume in the Home Improvement Loan Program was $170,996 in October and no HILPswere done in November

• The Veterans Trust Fund delinquency rate was 2.10% in October and 2.12% in November

Assistance to Needy Veterans Grant

• The Process Action Team met on December 5th and is scheduled to meet again on January 9th

5. Veterans Homes ReportMr. Diaz highlighted the following Division of Veterans Homes matters:

• CVSO Bulletin 819 announced new Home rates effective 1 January 2008

• The Division submitted a memo detailing the citations report for the Homes for the months of September through November 2007

• Pathway Health Services began work on the Operational Study of the Homes

• A financial transaction audit and survey of Union Grove’s internal controls is being conductedby a company called Titus

• Demolition began at the Fairchild Hall assisted living facility, construction will follow that will

convert some of the rooms to singles and provide ADA compliant bathrooms for the remainingdouble rooms

• The federal appropriation for the State Home Construction Grant Program has been approvedby conference committee for federal fiscal year 2008 for $165 million for construction grantsand $35 million for cemetery construction grants

• The Division is conducting exploratory discussions with a private firm to conduct anindependent survey of food service operations

Mr. Stenavich asked what the difference was between the food service survey that was recentlyconducted and the second survey being explored. Mr. Diaz said the first survey was done in-house



6

and the Board asked that an independent firm conduct the survey to avoid the appearance that we weremanipulating the numbers or suggesting answers by the members. The cost to conduct the secondsurvey would be approximately $4,500. Mr. Stenavich said he would like the Board to reconsider theadditional expense for a second food survey. Mr. Moran referred that suggestion to the Long TermCare Committee for its recommendation to the Board.

Mr. Crowley said the census at King was 709 at the end of November with 59 pendingapplications in different stages of processing. The average time from receipt of the application toadmission during this reporting period is 131 days. Commandant Crowley gave the following

construction update: well #2 is complete and they are testing for the required approval by the DNR.By summer of 2008 the campus will be converted to well water. The resident ceiling lift project isbeing designed and the budget estimate and project scope are being reviewed. The Olson Halldomestic water piping replacement project design was sent to the VA. Bids are due December 12th.The architect/engineer has been selected to design the wandering resident monitoring system that willreplace the existing system. The receipts in the Home Exchange operations were approximately$45,000 with a net operating loss of $1,454. The past 12 months saw receipts of $247,160 and a lossof $623.00. The gifts and bequests revenue since the last report is $166,114 and total expendituressince the last report is $97,462 for a net gain of $68,650.

Mr. Anderson asked what was purchased with the $97,462 expended from Gifts and Bequests.

Mr. Crowley said he would have to get that information to him tomorrow morning; he did not knowoff hand, but it would have been for things that directly benefit the members of the Home.

Mr. Wistrom welcomed everyone to the Union Grove campus. The census is 78 members inskilled nursing and 98 in assisted living for a total campus census of 176 (as of November 30, 2007).There are nine pending applications and five on a waiting list. The third floor of Boland Hall will beopening for admissions next week. The average application processing time is 35 days. Theconversion of ten double rooms into fifteen single rooms in Fairchild and Shemanske Halls started inmid November and could be done in 12-15 months. The modification to loading docks at Maurer andBoland Halls is complete. The delicatessen in Maurer Hall is open for business. The fourth of fournew busses has arrived; they are used for activities and medical transport. There was a Pearl Harbor

Day Program on December 7th

in conjunction with the official countdown to the National Moment of Remembrance on Memorial Day. There are many holiday activities planned as well as preparationsfor a St. Patrick’s Day celebration.

6. Financial ReportMs. Holtan began with the Wisconsin Veterans Home at King. Operating revenues increased

7% to $23,024,667 and operating expenses increased 6% to $23,995,832 resulting in a year-to-dateoperating loss of $971,165. The operating loss caused fund equity to decrease to $44,383,582 as of November 30th. Cash and cash equivalents increased $3.1 million to $20.8 million at November 30due to cash receipts exceeding uses.

Operating revenues at the Wisconsin Veterans Home at Union Grove were $4.8 millionthrough November 30, an increase of $3.4 million over the same time period in fiscal year 2007.Operating expenses were $6,250,027, or $2.5 million greater than through November 30, 2006. Thenet loss and decrease to fund equity through November 30, 2007 were $1,454,666. Cash and cashequivalents decreased $1,557,655 at November 30, 2007, a decrease of $1,363,579 fiscal year to date.

The Veterans Trust Fund operating revenues decreased while operating costs increased,resulting in a fiscal year 2008-to-date operating loss of $2,213,005. Non-operating revenues alsodecreased while non-operating expenses increased, thereby increasing the fiscal year-to-date net lossin the Veterans Trust Fund to $2,449,841. Assets in the VTF totaled $68.8 million as of November



7

30th, a decrease of nearly $7.1 million since November 2006, including decreases in cash and theunpaid principal balance of veterans and mortgage loans outstanding of $2.8 million and $4.3 millionrespectively. The November 30, 2007 cash balance was $25,633.996.

The Mortgage Loan Repayment Fund (MLRF) on November 30th

totaled $399.6 million whichis $15.6 million less than the November 30, 2006 balance. Liabilities and fund equity decreased acombined $15,569,655. Fiscal year-to-date operating expenses have exceeded operating revenuesresulting in an operating loss of $7.2 million. The cash balance in the MLRF was $116,855,288 as of November 30, 2007.

The Veterans Trust Fund loan portfolio delinquency rate for November was 2.12% overall, and2.13% for the Personal Loan Program. The Primary Mortgage Loan delinquency rate for October was0.75%. Fifteen Primary Mortgage Loan applications were received in November 2007, down from 31for the same period in 2006.

7. Recess/AdjournmentIt was moved by Mr. Moen, seconded by Mr. Stenavich and carried on a voice vote that the

Board adjourn until 9:30 a.m. on December 14.It was moved by Mr. Lawrence, seconded, carried on a voice vote that the Legislative and

Program Review Committee stand in recess.

It was moved by Mr. Wendt, seconded by Ms. Meyer and carried on a voice vote that the LongTerm Care Committee stand in recess.

It was moved by Mr. Hustad, seconded by Mr. Gausmann and carried on a voice vote that theFinancial Committee stand in recess.

It was moved by Mr. Margowski, seconded, and carried on a voice vote that the Council onVeterans Programs adjourn until 8:00 a.m. on December 14.

It was moved by Mr. Grams, seconded by Mr. Mynyk and carried on a voice vote that theCVSO Advisory Council stand in recess for ten minutes.

The time was 2:45 p.m.



1

M I N U T E S

CVSO ADVISORY COUNCIL

December 13, 2007


Members Present Others Present

Nick Benzinger, Shawano Charles Allen

Mark Grams, Dodge Russ Alsteen, NCUSA

Jon LiDonne, Waupaca Bill Andersen, Board MemberFred Kaiser, Waushara Scott Berger, Marathon CVSO

Ted Mynyk, Iowa Ken Brown, Ozaukee CVSO

John Solis, Rock Scott Berger, Marathon CVSO

Robert Stone, Winnebago Gerald Beuthin, Green Lake CVSO

Ray Boeckman, Sawyer CVSO

Members Excused Ken Brown, Ozaukee CVSO

Andrew Clark, Outagamie Joe Campbell

Mike Haley, Chippewa Rick Cherone, MOPH

Donna Chrzas, Columbia CVSO

WDVA Present Robert Cocroft, CVI

John A. Scocos, Secretary Phil Cote, American Legion

Bill Kloster, Deputy Secretary Mike Demske, VVA PresidentAnthony Hardie, Executive Assistant Roger Fetterly, MOAA

Jimmy Stewart, Chief Legal Counsel Mark Foreman, VVAW

Ken Black, Division of Veterans Benefits Mike Furgal VFW

Seth Perelman, Division of Administration Jim Gausmann, La Crosse CVSO

Andy Schuster, Communications Director Jackie Guthrie, Board Member

Mike Diaz, Division Administrator Lewis Harned

Bill Crowley, Commandant Bill Hustad, VFW Commander

Gary Wistrom, Acting Commandant Chris Jordan, Walworth CVSO

Pat Shaughnessy, Deputy Commandant Kevin Kavanaugh

Ken Abrahamsen, Budget Director Al Kochenderfer

Colleen Holtan, Budget Steve Lawrence, VFW Adjutant

Mel Brandl, Regional Coordinator Mary MeyerNate Nez, Regional Coordinator Duane Miskulin

Julie Van Metre, Executive Staff Assistant Rod Moen, Board Member

Peter Moran, Board Chairman

Max Oleson, American Red Cross

Jerry Polus, Brown CVSO

Jerry Rabetski, PLAV

Al Richards

Vera Roddy, UWV President

Rick Scollon

Clif Sorenson, Eau Claire CVSO

Clarence Stoel

Tim ThiersKen Wendt

Jim Young, Vernon CVSO

Marcia Ziegler, Clark CVSO Staff



2

1. Call to Order and Roll Call

The meeting of the CVSO Advisory Council was called to order at 2:55 p.m. The Pledge

of Allegiance was recited. A quorum was present.

2. Certification of Notice of Meeting

So noted.

3. Approval of Minutes of September 27, 2007

It was moved by Mr. LiDonne, seconded by Mr. Benzinger and carried on a voice vote toapprove the minutes of the September 27th CVSO Advisory Council meeting.

4. Announcements and Introductions

None.

5. Resident Weight Limits at Homes

Mr. Solis said that there are different member weight limits for Union Grove than at

King. Mr. Kloster said there is nothing in writing policy-wise. Mr. Shaughnessy said that there

is a medical change in services that have to be provided at 350 pounds. He said that 350 pounds

is considered bariatric, which requires specialty beds and specialty lifts. Union Grove does not

have that equipment, therefore they do not admit veterans in that weight category. Mr. Klostersaid that both Homes will take a member up to 350 pounds. That is a generally accepted nursing

home standard.

Mr. Grams asked how much would it cost to add the specialized equipment to be able to

admit persons over 350 pounds. Mr. Shaughnessy said one of the problems is that wider

doorway entrances into the member room and bathroom are needed. The bariatric beds are

generally too wide to fit through the current doorways so reconstruction would be the biggest

cost. Mr. Grams asked where the over 350 pound person would go. Mr. Shaughnessy said there

are some facilities that have specialty programs; there is a place in South Milwaukee that has

bariatric suites with special showers, special bathroom doors, etc. It was requested that CVSOs

get a list of those facilities that can accommodate the special needs of a person over 350 pounds.

Mr. Shaughnessy said if a member should go over 350 pounds while a resident, it

presents a significant challenge. They would have a dietician and nursing staff work closely

with the member. It would be very difficult to discharge a member based on weight, so they

would do their best to work around it.

Mr. Kloster added that similar situations happen at the cemeteries at Union Grove and

Spooner with the pre-set liners. All those liners are one size and occasionally we get caskets that

will not fit in those liners. We will then purchase an oversized liner and that liner will be placed

in a separate burial garden at the cemetery.

6. Eligibility Affidavits from Family Members

Mr. Solis said that CVSOs received training from Marianne at a Southeast meeting and

the affidavit question came up and her response was that we get a notarized affidavit from parent

or sibling or two notarized affidavits from neighbors, friends or other relatives. Mr. Kloster said

that since Marianne gave that briefing, WDVA has some new programs. Mr. Perelman said that

starting in the 1980’s, Chief Legal Counsel Fitch Taylor determined that affidavits of residence

by people who stood to benefit from establishing residency constituted a conflict of interest and

were, therefore, inappropriate. In the 1990’s Chief Counsel John Rosinski, in modifying Fitch



3

Taylor’s finding, found that in those cases where veterans were minors and therefore presumably

resided with their parents, it was appropriate to accept an affidavit from parents, even though

they might benefit. Then more recently we administer programs for a number of agencies who

do not accept affidavits at all--the University of Wisconsin System, Wisconsin Technical College

System and Department of Revenue. Those agencies require one of three documents in order of

preference: (1) a Wisconsin income tax filing, (2) the DD Form 2058 and (3) either forms 214 or

215, separation record indicating place of residence when they entered service. However, if an

individual cannot provide one of those three documents, and they are not applying for those

programs but are only trying to establish Chapter 45 eligibility, they should be referred toWDVA Office of Legal Counsel to be worked on a case-by-case basis.

7. Marking of DD214’s on File at WDVA

Mr. Solis said they are looking for a status report on the decision to mark DD214’s that

WDVA knows comes from a reliable source. CVSO Bulletin #817, published November 16th,

explained the changes. Those changes went into effect on November 20th so the Department is

now certifying those DD214’s which they can and indicating those that cannot be certified as

being an uncertified copy on file. The use of the embossing seal is being reinstituted. So now,

whether it is an uncertified copy or the stamp that certifies a copy, WDVA will emboss through

it for a little added security so that CVSOs know that it came from WDVA. Mr. Perelman said

we are only going to certify those DD214’s as genuine if we are absolutely sure of their chain of custody. The only one at this point that we know is a genuine document is the Copy 6 that

comes to us straight from the separation center. Anything else, we are going to stamp uncertified

copy.

8. Definition of “underemployed” as it Relates to the WDVA Retraining Grant

Mr. Stewart said the definition of underemployed is found in Chapter VA 2.03 (1)(f). A

frequently asked question paper about the term underemployed was provided to the Council.

Mr. Benzinger asked if self-employment is something different than underemployment.

Mr. Stewart said self employment has several different facets in terms of the Department making

a capable analysis of the income situation. Some of the issues that come up with self

employment are the failure to give a properly prepared accounting of the business that allows us

to make a determination of eligibility. One of the other issues that comes up is that the

Administrative Code doesn’t allow us to give a retraining grant to an individual who has a loss

of employment or income due to their own fault. The fact that an individual determines that his

business is no longer viable is subjective as to whether that’s the individual’s own fault or not.

9. WI GI Bill Eligibility

Mr. Stewart said an issue identified is the fact that the term “active duty” as it is used in

both Chapter 36 and Chapter 38 is not defined. There are three different places to seek definition

for active duty. Chapters 36 and 38 both use the definition for Chapter 45 veteran. Two other

places have the definition of active duty—Title 10 of the US Code and Title 38. Both the UW

System and the Technical College System have been notified that WDVA has been defining

active duty under the Title 10 definition which includes active duty for training in both the

National Guard and Reserves. The UW System has not told us to change that interpretation. It

is their statute to interpret, should they tell us they want a different interpretation, we would

comply but to date they have not done that.

Mr. Grams said that if we knew from the beginning that active duty for training was

eligible for the WI GI Bill and nobody applied for it until a year ago, will we advertise that now.

Mr. Stewart said we have not put out a bulletin because it is not our statute to interpret. It is not



4

a WDVA program to advertise. Mr. Grams said information could be put out in Forward

Veterans to notify that population of veterans that they are eligible and the CVSO community

needs to get the information out.

There was discussion on uncharacterized discharge. If one uses a liberal interpretation of

that, it should be an honorable discharge. Mr. Stewart said individuals who are discharged

administratively under 180 days can be labeled as uncharacterized. Individuals who complete 90

or more days up to 179 days can be labeled as either uncharacterized, under honorable

conditions, under general with honorable conditions or any of the normal dischargecharacteristics. Individuals that WDVA would be looking at with respect to our own personal

eligibility within the 90 to 180 days, uncharacterized has and always will be an honorable

discharge under Chapter 45. The UW System and Technical College System want that discharge

to say under honorable conditions just like their statutes say.

Ms. Guthrie said that we, as leaders in the veterans community have an obligation to our

veterans, whether it is a state or federal benefit. She was adamant in her feelings that we need to

come together as a community to clarify what a veteran is and the definition of a veteran.

Mr. Margowski asked if there has been any guarantee out of the UW System for the

veteran who goes through the long process to get an honorable discharge to be able to get thetuition remission reimbursed to him or her. Mr. Stewart said the statutes that this program is

governed by don’t have time limits. One of the things that both systems started was telling the

veteran that they had so many weeks to apply; however, the statute has no time limits.

10. Secretary’s Matters

Secretary Scocos thanked the CVSOs and congratulated Jon LiDonne on his election as

CVSO Association President. He looks forward to working with him in the year ahead. The

next two to five years are critical for the financial situation of the Department of Veterans

Affairs. The solvency plan goes out to the year 2013. The Board of Veterans Affairs will be

faced with serious decisions to make in terms of our Homes. Thanks to all the folks who helped

the homeless program and all the support over the last budget.

11. Public Input

Mr. Polus said that under the Wisconsin GI Bill in the Technical College system you can

obtain eight semesters, 128 credits in one system and go to another and get that same benefit.

Mr. Polus was told that they have not closed that loophole.

12. Council Members’ Matters (Not Subject to Adoption)

Mr. Grams complimented the loan analysts at the Department.

Mr. Mynyk talked about the Assistance to Needy Veterans Program and assistance to

deployed service members’ spouses and families and the monetary contributions made to that

program. He asked about the status of those contributions. Mr. Kloster said that under the

budget process there was an initiative to take that program completely out of the Department of

Veterans Affairs and move it to the Department of Military Affairs and WDVA was supposed to

transfer the money. An update on that program will be provided to the CVSOs.

13. Next Meeting Schedule

Next year’s meeting schedule will be set by the Board.



5

14. Adjournment

It was moved by Mr. Stone, seconded by Mr. LiDonne and carried on a voice vote to

adjourn the CVSO Advisory Council meeting, the time was 3:55 p.m.

John Solis

Chairman



1

M I N U T E SFINANCIAL COMMITTEE

WISCONSIN DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRSMeeting of December 13, 2007

Committee Present Others Present

Bill Andersen Charles AllenAl Richards Russ Alsteen, Navy Club

Jim Gausmann Scott Berger, Marathon CVSOJoe Campbell Cleon “Pat” Brown, USSVWWIIBill Hustad Ken Brown, Ozaukee CVSOAl Kochenderfer Rick Cherone, MOPH CommanderMike Demske Donna Chrzas, Columbia CVSO

Mark Foreman, VVAWCommittee Excused Marvin Freedman, Board Vice ChairWalter Stenavich Mike FurgalJohn O’Brien Lew HarnedBill Bottoms Chris Jordan, Walworth CVSO

Steve Lawrence, VFW Adjutant

WDVA Present Mary MeyerJohn A. Scocos, Secretary Duane MiskulinWilliam Kloster, Deputy Secretary Rod Moen, Board MemberKen Black, Division Administrator Pete Moran, Board ChairmanBill Crowley, Commandant, WVH-K Jerry Polus, Brown CVSOPat Shaughnessy, Deputy Commandant Jerry Rabetski, PLAVMike Diaz, Division Administrator Vera Roddy, UWV PresidentKen Abrahamsen, Budget Director Rick ScollonColleen Holtan, Budget Tim Thiers, AMVETSKen Grant, Bureau of Program Services Al WalkerAndy Schuster, Public Affairs Director Ken Wendt

Julie Van Metre, Executive Staff Assistant Jim Young, Vernon CVSOMarcia Ziegler, Clark CVSO Staff

1. Call to Order and Roll CallThe meeting of the Financial Committee was called to order at 4:00 p.m.; a quorum was

present.

2. Certification of Notice of MeetingIt was certified that proper notice of the meeting occurred.

3. Approval of MinutesIt was moved by Mr. Campbell, seconded by Mr. Hustad and carried unanimously on a

voice vote to approve the minutes of the October 18, 2007 Financial Committee meeting.



2

4. Secretary’s MattersMr. Kloster said that during the summer when the budget was in debate, we often talked

about if the budget did not pass we were going to lose $10 million and that was true. The budgetdid pass and we went out seeking that $10 million worth of bonding authority. We found that if we bonded for that money, the coupon rate on the bonds plus the necessary add-ons would haveput us at an interest rate of about 6.4% which is four-tenths of a basis point above our currentaverage. Also, the State of Wisconsin Investment Board (SWIB) rate on our funds with the stateis less than 4.9%. We were also looking at a coupon rate that was 4.5%. What we would be

paying as debt service was very close to what we would have been making in interest on moneyin the bank. So we were probably going to be facing a situation where we were paying more forthe money than we were going to make on it, coupled with the fact that there has been a hugedownturn in the last couple of months in lending activity. So, Mr. Kloster said he made thedecision not to pursue that $10 million. Although the federal prime interest rate dropped, bondinterest rates are going up and so our money is getting more expensive. It would have been abad financial decision for the Department to seek that money. We still have projected PrimaryMortgage Loan availability through September of 2009.

Mr. Kloster said the plan to transfer the $7 million from the Homes account into the TrustFund so that we can get the interest on that money, is still being worked on. It was originally

planned to do that around the first of the year, so even with the budget passing late, we might notbe too far behind schedule. The bad news is, if the SWIB rate continues to go down, theprojections we made in June are going to be less.

Mr. Andersen said that Mr. Kloster made a wise decision and he asked how much moneywe had available for loans. Ms. Holtan said approximately $24 million and we have theopportunity to do refunding again on existing bonds, probably to be done in the April timeframe,for approximately $36 million to generate cash for new loans. In addition to that there will be$15 million of QVMB new authority that we will get on the first of the year.

Secretary Scocos said that Mr. Kloster and Colleen Holtan and the budget folks have

done an outstanding job with the complexities that we face. The financial future and solvency of our Homes are critical. The Board is going to set the course for the future of our financialstability at our Homes. The Department will work with appropriate legislative avenues to againattempt to get general purpose dollars for our Department.

Mr. Andersen asked when the Homes study would be complete. Ms. Holtan said a lot of the on-site field work has been completed. Pathways will be working on drafting somepreliminary recommendations from their observations. They will present that information to anadvisory committee and the first full week of January is targeted for them to bring us anoperational assessment review. Once the operational assessment itself is completed, however,we still will have work on the financial assessment from which we can do some projections as tocost. Ultimately we have a capital project component that we have to look at to estimate theright-sizing for the Homes. WDVA will get a comprehensive written report from the consultant,Pathways, and they will assist with a briefing to the Board when that is complete. Optimistically,that preliminary report will be brought to the Board at its next meeting in February.



3

Mr. Andersen asked for confirmation that we are spending a quarter of a million dollarsfor the study. Ms. Holtan said the estimated cost was $250,000 but the contract was let for$107,200.

5. Public InputNone.

6. Committee Members’ Matters (Not Subject to Adoption)

None.

7. Next Meeting DateTo be determined by the Board.

8. AdjournmentIt was moved, seconded, and carried unanimously on a voice vote to adjourn the meeting;

the time was 4:15 p.m.

Bill AndersenChairman



2

4. Discussion and Action on SB 307 and AB 555 Relating to the Repeal of the VetEd Pre-

Application Requirement

Chairman Freedman said the Committee previously went on record supporting the repeal

of the VetEd pre-application requirement.

It was moved by Mr. Thiers, seconded by Mr. Miskulin and carried unanimously on a

voice vote that the Legislative and Program Review Committee recommends that the Board of

Veterans Affairs endorse the enactment of SB 307 and AB 555 repealing the VetEd pre-app

requirement and direct the Department to continue making the passage of SB 307 and AB 555 ahigh legislative priority.

5. Discussion and Action on the Need for Additional USDVA Vet Centers in Wisconsin

Chairman Freedman said that since the Committee first talked about this matter in

August, there has been considerable movement on the initiative to try and get two additional Vet

Centers for Wisconsin. Senator Feingold has taken the lead in trying to bring this about. The

way that new Vet Centers are located is that they have an appropriation in any given budget year

that goes to the construction of new Vet Centers and enhancing existing ones. They have a

process that is overseen by the Under Secretary of Health for the Veterans Health Administration

within the VA. This is something that impacts not just veterans in a particular area but it goes to

the whole issue of how you best serve all Wisconsin veterans and how you deal with a situationwhere the only two Vet Centers in the state are both located in the far southern portion of the

state. Senator Feingold circulated a letter prepared by his staff attorneys to the Congressional

delegation and every member of the Wisconsin Congressional delegation signed on to it quickly.

Mr. Freedman asked that a copy of the letter be attached to the minutes of this Committee’s

meeting.

It was moved by Mr. Berger, seconded by Ms. Roddy and carried unanimously on a

voice vote that the Legislative and Program Review Committee recommend that the Board of

Veterans Affairs goes on record in support of the opening of two new Vet Centers; one in Brown

County and another in LaCrosse County by the US Department of Veterans affairs at the earliest

possible time to more properly address the mental health and readjustment needs of Wisconsin

veterans in general and the needs of Wisconsin’s returning Iraq War and Afghanistan War

veterans; that the Board of Veterans Affairs endorses in principal the December 11, 2007 letter

and its rationale which was signed by every member of the Wisconsin Congressional Delegation

to the US Department of Veterans Affairs calling for the establishment of new Wisconsin Vet

Centers in Brown County and LaCrosse County; that the Board of Veterans Affairs commend

and thank US Senator Russ Feingold for his leadership and support in this cooperative, by-

partisan effort and commend and thank each member of the Wisconsin delegation for their

cooperative efforts and support of this initiative to create two new Vet Centers in Wisconsin; and

that the Board of Veterans Affairs direct the Department of Veterans Affairs to fully support and

assist in the efforts of US Senator Feingold and the Wisconsin Delegation to bring about the

opening of new Vet Centers in Brown County and LaCrosse County.

Mr. Thiers would like a copy of the letter distributed to the Council on Veterans

Programs so that they can bring it back to their respective organizations for action.



3


Secretary Scocos thanked the Committee for its support on budgetary issues that were

passed. He looks forward to see what legislation can be enacted to help our veterans.

7. Public Input

None.

8. Committee Members’ Matters (Not Subject to Adoption)

Mr. Thiers said that AMVETS would like to be a major sponsor to the February 20 th Veterans Salute to the Legislature. He advised that those attending the Salute, also plan to attend

the Stakeholders Conference earlier that same day.

Mr. Thiers said that Anthony Hardie was the speaker for the AMVETS United Veterans

Council banquet. He did an excellent job explaining how to get things done on the legislative

side.

9. Next Meeting Date

To be determined by the Board of Veterans Affairs.

10. AdjournmentIt was moved by Mr. Thiers, seconded by Mr. Furgal and carried on a voice vote to

adjourn the meeting; the time was 4:35 p.m.

Marvin Freedman

Chairman



<tCongressf tbeWnfteb~tates.a~bington. IH! 20510

December11,2007

The Honorable Michael J. Kussman,MDUnder Secretary for Health for the VeteransHealth Administration

Department of Veterans Affairs, Central Office810 Vermont AvenueNW

Washington, DC 20420

Dear Dr. Kussman:

We write to urge you to establish two additionalVet Centers in the state ofWisconsin, one in

La Crosse County and another inBrown County. Wewere disappointed that none of the 23newVet Centers to be opened in the United States in 2007 and 2008 will be located in

Wisconsin, which is greatly underserved withinthe current Vet Center system. We are veryconcerned that roughly forty percent of Wisconsin veterans do not currently have reasonableaccess to a Vet Center. Servicemembersare returning from Iraq and Afghanistan with

alarming rates ofPTSD and other mental health and readjustment issues. AdditionalVet

Centers are urgently needed to ensure that Wisconsin veterans and their families havereasonable access to necessary counseling in the welcoming, non-clinical environment thatVet Centers offer.

Wisconsin onlyhas two Vet Centers,both in the southernpart of the state, to serve 469,000veterans. Most states with similar veterans populations have over double this number ofVet

Centers. Maryland has fewer veterans thanWisconsin and is one fifth the size of the state

but nonetheless has fourVet Centers. Massachusetts is nearly one eighth the size ofWisconsin with only a slightly larger veteranspopulation, but it has seven Vet Centers.

When you compare the number of Vet Centers in Wisconsin relative to the number ofveterans in the state and the size of the state,Wisconsin ranks seventh from the bottom in

terms of the availability ofVet Centers.

We have heard frommanyWisconsin veterans and veterans service officers who areconcerned that there are insufficient counseling resources in Wisconsin. Our research

indicates that, based on the VA's 2005 data, roughly 185,912Wisconsin veterans (40%) do

not have a Vet Center close enough for them to seek counseling on a regular basis. See

attached map. To seek care at a Vet Center, these veterans would need to drive over two

hours round trip. This makes it extremely difficult for these veterans and their families toseek care routinely or easily, especially in instances when an individual suffering fromcombat-related stress needs to speak with a counselor in person, upon short notice.

As a result, too many veterans and families inWisconsinwill not be able to readily accessthe Vet Center counseling they need, sometimes desperately. Ifthe VAwere to establish two

new Vet Centers in these proposed locations, roughly 82% ofWisconsin veterans would bewithin an hour drive of a Vet Center.



The La Crosse County locationwould also benefit the approximately 7,000 veterans inHouston and Winona Counties inMinnesota. Currently these veterans must travel over anhour to the Vet Center in the Twin Cities. Allamakee County in extremeNortheast Iowa

with about 2,000 veterans would also benefit from this Vet Center.

We appreciate that the VA is in the process of establishing23 new Vet Centers and that thesecenters are complemented by private counselors and phone counseling. Unfortunately, theavailability of contracted-out, private counselors and phone counseling does not substitute for

the availability of Vet Centers. As you know, Vet Centers play an important outreach role.

Many veterans would never learn about the availability of a range ofVA services, including

private counselors, if it were not for the fact that there is a Vet Center in their communitywhere they can ask for assistance in a non-clinical setting. In addition, telephone counseling

does not provide the human contact that many veterans need to establish a meaningful

therapeutic relationship with a counselor.

We therefore urge you to consider our request to establish two new centers in Wisconsin, onein La Crosse County and one inBrown County. Thank you for your attention to our urgent

request. We look forward to workingwith you to bring about two new Vet Centers inWisconsin in the very near future.

Sincerely,

ftJtJi/'\

---I{(-

~~

~ Pf"~

~ ,."



Proposed Vet Centers

Pepi

L1 Crosse\"

\

..".~---

Existing centers are indicated in black.

Proposed new centers are indicated in orange.Circles represent roughly an hour driving time.

Map CoJDe

P81UeBille

1'IJrqu(;i~ .

Lighl Blue.Blue ~

.

.

Datt

...

. Blue

I.

..

..

.

Purpe ..Pink,.Ra-d

DartRed--

Number ofVeterans

0..2000

2()J}04000

4000-6'ODOOOf)O.sOOO

0000.10000

100DO-12000

12000-14000

14000-16000

>16000



1

M I N U T E SLONG TERM CARE COMMITTEE

WISCONSIN DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRSMeeting of December 13, 2007

Committee Present Others Present

Rod Moen Russ Alsteen, NCUSAJackie Guthrie Nick Benzinger, Shawano CVSO

Charles Allen Rick Cherone, MOPHChristine Jordan Phil Cote, American LegionKevin Kavanaugh Mike Demske, VVA PresidentMary Meyer Mike FurgalJerry Polus Mark Foreman, VVAWRick Scollon Fred Kaiser, Waushara CVSOLew Harned Al KochenderferAlan Walker Jon LiDonne, Waupaca CVSOKen Wendt Duane Miskulin

Pete Moran, Board ChairmanCommittee Members Excused Jerry Rabetski, PLAV

None Al RichardsVera Roddy, UWV

WDVA Present Clif Sorenson, WACVO/Eau Claire CVSOJohn A. Scocos, Secretary Tim Thiers, AMVETS/Manitowoc CVSOWilliam Kloster, Deputy Secretary Marcia Ziegler, Clark CVSO Staff Anthony Hardie, Executive AssistantJimmy Stewart, Chief Legal CounselBill Crowley, Commandant, WVH-KGary Wistrom, Acting Commandant, UGPat Shaughnessy, Deputy CommandantKen Abrahamsen, Budget Director

Colleen Holtan, BudgetMike Diaz, Division AdministratorKen Black, Division AdministratorNate Nez, Regional CoordinatorAndy Schuster, Public Affairs DirectorJulie Van Metre, Executive Staff Assistant

1. Call to Order and Roll CallThe meeting of the Long Term Care Committee was called to order at 4:40 p.m., a

quorum was present.

2. Certification of Notice of MeetingIt was certified that proper notice of the meeting occurred.



2

3. Approval of MinutesIt was moved by Mr. Walker, seconded by Mr. Wendt and carried unanimously on a

voice vote to approve the minutes of the October 18, 2007 Committee meetings.

4. Discussion about Standardizing Uniform Reports Relating to the Operations of theWisconsin Veterans Homes at King and Union Grove

Mr. Diaz said he has been asked to provide a more concise report. He provided samplereports and charts for Committee members to review and provide suggestions. Committee

member Scollon said he would like to see the Homes financial reports. Mr. Kloster cited theRules of Procedure for the function of the Long Term Care Committee. The Committee shallconsider problems related to policies adopted by the Board for the administration of the Homes,the needs of the members of the facilities, the proposed building programs for the facilities, thefunding for the operations of the facilities and request for disbursement of funds from Gifts andBequests Funds for the purposes of the facilities. Those are the identified purposes in the rulesand whatever reports you need to do those functions are the reports the Department should beproviding. Mr. Kloster said he wants to provide information that is useful to the Committee.Committee member Walker would like to know what the trends were and are now and what willbe the projected trends. Also, what we can anticipate for long term and health care provisionsfor members of the Homes.

Mr. Kloster said that we operate as a program revenue agency which means that we haveto make the money that we use to operate. So in that respect we are like a business on theoutside. We have to operate under all the state rules and cannot do a lot of the things that aprivate entity can do. For example, 58% of the budget for California’s Homes is supported bytax dollars, Wisconsin gets zero tax dollars. We get Medicaid, Medicare and private pay bycitizens or their insurance. Those are the sources we have to make ends meet. We are in thestate environment and have to follow state and federal rules and regulations.

Committee member Polus would like to see a one page summary by each Home director;one paragraph on admissions, discharges, current census, beds available, average time for

admission; second paragraph, financial data summarization; third paragraph, facilities andbuildings construction issues; last paragraph, concerns and trends.

Secretary Scocos said he would take Committee member email suggestions and have acouple samples put together and get it out to the Committee in the next couple weeks. ChairmanMoen said that funding for the operation of the facilities falls under the Long Term CareCommittee so he would like something like that in the report.

5. Secretary’s MattersSecretary Scocos said the Homes strategic plan is critical for the future. The financials

and employee retention are critical and he is looking forward to the Pathways study report.

6. Public InputMr. Sorenson said that immediately following adjournment there will be a special

meeting of the ad hoc committee for the Council on Veterans Programs.



1

M I N U T E S

COUNCIL ON VETERANS PROGRAMS

WISCONSIN DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS

Meeting of December 14, 2007

Members Present Others Present

Russ Alsteen, NCUSA Bill Andersen, Board Member

Paul Bialk, MCL Nick Benzinger, Shawano CVSO

Pat Brown, USSVWWII Scott Berger, Marathon CVSORick Cherone, MOPH Paul Bernanden, DOT/DMV

Donna Chrzas, CVSO Association Joe Campbell, VVA 324

Phil Cote, American Legion Mike Demske, VVA President

Paul Fine, ANU Roger Fetterly, MOAA

Mark Foreman, VVAW Mike Furgal, VFW

Jesse Haro, CWV Mark Grams, Dodge CVSO

Bill Hustad, WVV Jackie Guthrie, Board Member

Chris Kanios, VFW Lewis Harned

John Margowski, VVA Chris Jordan, Walworth CVSO

Max Oleson, ARC Fred Kaiser, Waushara CVSO

Jerry Rabetski, PLAV Al KochenderferWilliam Sims, NABV Ken Kuehnl, DAV Adjutant

Clif Sorenson, WACVO Steve Lawrence, VFW Adjutant

Clarence Stoel, DAV Jon LiDonne, CVSO Assoc. President

Tim Thiers, AMVETS Tom Ludka, American Legion VSO

Paul Weprinsky, JWV Duane Miskulin, AMVETS

Marci Mylan, Minneapolis VAMC

Members Excused Reggie Paradowski, DOT/DMV

Connie Allord, UWV Vera Roddy, UWV President

Walter Peterson, Am. Ex-POWs Fernando Rodriguez, WI American GI Forum

Jack Stone, PVA Rick Scollon

WWI vacancy John Solis, Rock CVSO

FCDV vacancy Walter Stenavich, Board Member

Victor Vela, WI American GI Forum

WDVA Present Al Walker

John A. Scocos, Secretary Jim Young, Vernon CVSO

William Kloster, Deputy Secretary Marcia Ziegler, Clark CVSO Office Staff

Anthony Hardie, Executive Assistant

Jimmy Stewart, Chief Legal Counsel

Seth Perelman, Division of Administration

Ken Black, Division of Veterans Benefits

Mike Diaz, Division Administrator

Bill Crowley, Commandant WVH-K

Gary Wistrom, Acting Commandant, UG

Pat Shaughnessy, Deputy Commandant

Colleen Holtan, Budget

Andrew Schuster, Public Affairs Director

Ken Grant

Nate Nez, Regional Coordinator

Julie Van Metre, Executive Staff Assistant



2

1. Call to Order and Roll Call of Members

The Pledge of Allegiance was recited. The meeting of the Council on Veterans Programs

was called to order by Chairman Sorenson at 8:00 a.m.

2. Certification of Notice of Meeting

It was certified that proper notice of the meeting occurred.

3. Introduction of Guests and Announcements

Introductions included: new member Max Oleson who represents the American RedCross and Phil Cote of the American Legion; VFW Commander Bill Hustad; Duane Miskulin,

AMVETS National Finance Officer; VVA State Council President Mike Demske; and CVSO

Association President Jon LiDonne.

4. Approval of Minutes of October 18-19, 2007 Meetings

It was moved by Mr. Thiers, seconded by Mr. Margowski and carried unanimously on a

voice vote to accept the minutes of the October 18-19 meetings.

5. Council Communications

None

6. Museum Foundation Report

Mr. Hustad said the Museum had a successful Museum Gala. Planning is underway for

the annual golf outing, another fundraising event.

7. Discussion/Action on American GI Forum as a Member of the Council on Veterans

Programs

The item was tabled since no member of the American GI Forum was present.

8. Discussion of Fisher House—VA Enhanced Use Lease

Joe Campbell spoke on behalf of the Milwaukee County Veterans Board, the Allied

Veterans Council and the Vietnam Veterans of America. He reiterated what transpired at the VA

in Milwaukee as far as an enhanced use lease (EUL) and possible sell off of roughly 37 acres of

land to private interests. Regarding the Fisher House, the VA did submit an application to the

Fisher House Corporation and Milwaukee is slated for 2011. There is a Fisher House going in at

the Hines Hospital in Chicago. A Fisher House is for families of veterans who need housing

while their family member is recovering. If the 37 acres at the Milwaukee VA is sold, there will

be no land for a Fisher House. Another issue is the reopening or expansion of Wood Cemetery.

A proposal for a columbarium was refused by the VA in Washington. They said there would be

no reopening of Wood and no columbarium. Mr. Campbell has asked Secretary Scocos to look

at combining a state and federal expansion at Wood Cemetery. With veterans support, Mr.

Campbell is going to go back to the City and County of Milwaukee, as well as Senator Sullivan

to discuss Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, traumatic brain injury, homeless shelter and a

women’s treatment center that gives veterans the dignity and respect that they deserve. The

buildings and land are there and veterans letters of support are needed that request an extension

or a moratorium on any EUL transactions, at least until the GAO report comes out and then a 90-

day time period so that it could be studied. This is not a Milwaukee issue, it is a national

cemetery and a major regional medical center that is there to take care of our veterans.

Mr. Hustad requested that Joe Campbell and Russ Alsteen work together to draft a letter

to the Secretary of the US Department of Veterans Affairs requesting an extension on any



3

enhanced lease use transactions and that the draft letter be a part of the next meeting of the

Council on Veterans Programs.

9. Discussion/Action on American GI Forum as a Member of the Council on Veterans

Programs

Without objection, the Chairman removed this discussion item from the table and took it

up at this time. Commander Victor Vela said the American GI Forum has been in the State of

Wisconsin for the past 10-12 years. They are a family organization whose members have been

involved in the community. They have membership of 30 throughout the state that work withother veterans organizations. They especially do outreach to the Latino veteran population. The

mission of the National organization is to assist veterans. The only criteria for membership is to

be a veteran. The website is the American GI Forum. Secretary Scocos spoke on behalf of the

GI Forum for membership on the Council.

At the last Council meeting an Ad Hoc Committee to Study the Potential Changes in

Membership Eligibility for the Council on Veterans Programs was formed. It was moved by Mr.

Alsteen, seconded by Mr. Stoel and carried on a voice vote to table action on membership by the

American GI Forum until the Ad Hoc Committee comes back with its final report.

10. Military License Plates—Department of TransportationPaul Bernanden and Reggie Paradowski from the Department of Transportation, Division

of Motor Vehicles, Bureau of Vehicle Service, Special Plates Unit were introduced. Mr.

Paradowski talked about special military license plates. The new license plate design has

replaced the red, white and blue design. The new design is DMV’s response for a request from

law enforcement to have more uniformity in all license plates. In 2007, the DMV was required

by law to send customers new plates at renewal—it’s a law that affects plates every ten years.

The military group plates were due for renewal in 2007 so it was a perfect time to go to a new

design to comply with law enforcement’s request. They wanted easy readability both for the

plate number and so that the decal stands out on the license plate. They wanted to retain the red,

white and blue symbolism by putting the flag on the upper corner of the plate. Currently there

are over 18,000 military group license plates in the state and the DMV has reissued the new

design to 12,000 of those license plate holders. Illegible plates or damaged plates are a printing

process flaw and will be replaced for free. Disabled veterans plates are not scheduled to be

reissued until 2010. Service stickers cannot be ordered separately to place on an existing license

plate. The military license plate is not made with the disabled ISA symbol.

Mr. Sorenson said that the Council went on record at its last meeting with a vote to

support Representative Musser’s bill to revert to the red, white and blue plates because of the

support for them.


Secretary Scocos wished Clif Sorenson a happy birthday and wished everyone a happy

holiday. He is looking forward to the Salute to the Legislature and Stakeholders Conference on

February 20th. He said the Department faces serious challenges ahead and together we can

continue the fight to do what’s right. Working together as a team we can accomplish much.

12. Old Business

None



4

13. New Business

Mr. Foreman asked about unifying the power of the Council in getting the message to

Washington, DC concerning the 37 acres of land at the VA in Milwaukee. Right now the

proposal is for Alsteen and Campbell to compose a letter in the name of the Council. Would it

have more power to have all of the members of the different organizations to write letters and

they all be sent together. It was suggested that all members of the Council could sign the letter.

It was moved by Mr. Cherone and seconded by Mr. Foreman that once the draft letter has been

approved that it be individually signed by Council members. Mr. Fine felt it should beindividual letters, individually signed. Mr. Hustad said the letter can be duplicated and sent out

individually by each member. The motion was amended to have each member get a copy of the

letter to sign and send. Mr. Foreman seconded the amended motion. The motion carried on a

voice vote.

14. Activities within the Veterans Community

• Mr. Sorenson was at the dedication of the Klein Hall VAP site

• AMVETS is starting up a chapter of AMVET riders

• February 9th

is the AMVET Post 51 Sweetheart Dance in Sturgeon Bay

• AMVETS will be a major sponsor again this year for the Salute to the Legislature

• Stakeholders meeting is February 20th

• January 8th Department of the Navy Recruit of the Year Award at the War Memorial in

Washington, DC with the Secretary of the Navy

• Vietnam Veterans Against the War along with Veterans for Peace banned together to

help the homeless veterans in Milwaukee. Money was raised for Repairers of the

Breach. They will put on many more fundraisers.

• Milwaukee War Memorial Board named Colonel Ken Lee as Veteran of the Year

• January 9th the Zablocki VA will host a Women Veterans Health Fair

15. Public Input

Mr. Grams talked about the security of the DD214 and the military separation that has tobe sent into the Department of Transportation for verification to get a military license plate.

What kind of security do they have and what happens to the document once the plates are

issued? Mr. Paradowski said that after the application is processed, the paperwork is imaged and

it is handled as a secure document. After imaging the document the paper gets shredded. Are

there open records requests that could access that? Mr. Paradowski said they would comply with

an open records request but they would redact any personal information. Secretary Scocos said

that it is his understanding that without authorization, a person’s DD214 can never be given out.

Mr. Schuster said the 2008 Conference on Gulf War Illnesses is being held on January

17th

in the Education Center of the Wisconsin Department of Veterans Affairs from noon until 5

p.m. The Stakeholder’s Conference and Salute to the Legislature is on February 20th

beginningat noon. The third annual WDVA awards to recognize veterans in seven categories—Veterans

Advocate of the Year, Mission Welcome Home Supporter of the Year, Veterans Legislative Staff

of the Year, the Iron Mike Government Official Service to Veterans Award for Action, Courage,

Compassion, Dedication and Reverence on behalf of Wisconsin Veterans, the CVSO of the Year,

the Veterans Service Officer of the Year and Veterans Volunteer of the Year will be given out at

the stakeholder conference.

Mr. Walker said that on February 3rd the Milwaukee VA will hold the Four Chaplains

Service at 2:00 p.m.



5

Ken Kuehnl said the DAV will be in Washington, DC March 1-5; the DAV has secured

DAV Day at the ball park for May 10th; and the DAV State Convention is the second week in

June in Appleton at the Paper Valley.

16. Next Meeting Date

To be determined at the Board of Veterans Affairs meeting.

17. AdjournmentIt was moved by Mr. Fine, seconded by Mr. Kanios and carried on a voice vote to

adjourn, the time was 9:20 a.m.

Clif Sorenson

Chairman



B O A R D M I N U T E SWISCONSIN DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS

Meeting of December 14, 2007Union Grove, Wisconsin

Board Members Present WDVA Present

Pete Moran John A. Scocos, SecretaryMarv Freedman Bill Kloster, Deputy SecretaryRod Moen Anthony Hardie, Executive AssistantWilliam Andersen Bill Crowley, Commandant-KingJackie Guthrie Jimmy Stewart, Chief Legal CounselWalter Stenavich Mike Diaz, Division Administrator

Ken Abrahamsen, Budget DirectorBoard Members Excused Colleen Holtan, Budget Office Marcia Anderson Ken Black, Division of Veterans Benefits

Gary Wistrom, Acting Commandant-UGCouncil on Veterans Programs Present Pat Shaughnessy, Deputy Commandant UGRuss Alsteen, Navy Club Seth Perelman, Division of Administration

Cleon “Pat” Brown, USSVWWII Andy Schuster, Public Affairs DirectorRick Cherone, MOPH Ken Grant, Bureau of Program ServicesDonna Chrzas, CVSO Association Nate Nez, Regional CoordinatorPhil Cote, American Legion Julie Van Metre, Executive Staff AssistantPaul Fine, ANUMark Foreman, VVAW Others Present

Jesse Haro, CWV Nick Benzinger, Shawano CVSOBill Hustad, WVV Scott Berger, Marathon CVSOChris Kanios, Sr., VFW Glen BrowerJohn Margowski, VVA Joe CampbellMax Oleson, American Red Cross Mike Demske, VVAJerry Rabetski, PLAV Roger Fetterly, MOAA

William Sims, NABV Mike “Gunner” FurgalClif Sorenson, WACVO Mark Grams, Dodge CVSOClarence Stoel, DAV Chris Jordan, Walworth CVSOTim Thiers, AMVETS Fred Kaiser, Waushara CVSO

Al Kochenderfer, VFWKen Kuehnl, DAV AdjutantSteve Lawrence, VFW AdjutantJon LiDonne, Waupaca CVSOTom Ludka, American Legion VSODuane MiskulinDr. Marcie Mylan, Minneapolis VAMCRenee Oshinski, VISN 12

Vera Roddy, UWV PresidentFernando Rodriguez, WI American GI ForumRick ScollonJohn Solis, Rock CVSOVictor Vela, WI American GI ForumAlan WalkerJim Young, Vernon CVSOMarcia Ziegler, Clark CVSO Office Staff

1



Contact had been made with the vendor in November stating that in June of 2008their contract would be stopped. Mr. Kleinglass had no advance notice that the vendor wasgoing to close up.

Veterans who are regular patients at Rice Lake and Hayward have been personallycalled by staff from the Minneapolis VAMC informing them that the clinics were closed and

offering them several options for care, such as to go to Chippewa Falls CBOC, go toMaplewood CBOC or Twin Ports or be fee based out into the community and the VA willpay for that service. All of the patients who had labs or x-ray done the week before havebeen reviewed and if there are any outstanding issues that haven’t been communicated to thepatient, it is now being done either by telephone if it is an urgent issue or by letter. All thepatients are directed to call the 1-800 number, the call center, that can help work throughwith them what issues they are having and how they can best be taken care of. The telephonenumber is 1-866-414-5058 extension 91100. When the patient phones into this call center, if it is decided that fee basis is what is best, the call center can handle the paperwork and makesure the business office gets the information that it needs to pay the bills.

Mr. Kleinglass said about 100 patients throughout the week in both locations wereaffected—about 60 in Rice Lake and 35-40 in Hayward. There is a psychiatrist seeingpatients in Hayward one day a week. He did see patients this Wednesday in an office thatwas donated by the CVSO. They have plans to maintain the psychiatric practice in Haywardfrom here forward using that space.

Mr. Moran said he would like the Secretary to be proactive and activate the veteransorganizations to do whatever possible to get transportation for patients who are not using feebasis in the community and need to travel to other CBOCs. Secretary Scocos said he wouldwork with the CVSO Association and veterans groups and report back.

Ms. Oshinski continued with the normal VISN 12 and 23 reports. VISN 23 is takinga very proactive approach to trying to bring access to care closer to veterans in rural areas.They have a number of clinics that have been approved and that are scheduled to open in2008 and there are seven more that are under review by VA central office for 2009.

There is likely to be an agreement to extend the continuing resolution for the federalgovernment for another week. The President’s budget is a healthy budget for the VA for2008. Both Networks continue to add more staff to make sure people get care within 30 dayswith a particular emphasis on mental health care within 14 days.

There were hearings held in the Senate for President Bush’s nomination for Secretary

of Veterans Affairs, Lt. Gen. James B. Peake (Ret), M.D. President Bush declared a holidayon the 24th of December so medical centers are working to reschedule clinics. There is a VAwebsite regarding how the VA helps employees and veterans stay healthy, check it out atwww.prevention.va.gov.

Ms. Oshinski talked about initiatives in VISN 12 to reduce wait times. Audits werescheduled at every facility by experts from five of their sites and that group will go around toall the different places to audit their processes from the time the physician writes the orderfor the patient appointment to the actual scheduled appointment date. A recall and reminder

3

http://www.prevention.va.gov/

http://www.prevention.va.gov/



computerized system was implemented as well as appointment monitoring across theNetwork. Primary care providers have been added along with better utilization of primarycare providers to be sure that they have the appropriate level of staff to be seeing patients.

The audit at Tomah was completed this week and Ms. Oshinski will prepare a reportto the Board on what has been found to date.

Vera Roddy, UWV, asked that a federally approved medication for the treatment of fibromyalgia be added to the VA formulary. Mark Foreman, VVAW, said that suicideamong Iraq veterans is about 130 a week, more than any other war. What kinds of therapyare being offered for these veterans and are alternative treatments covered for veterans’therapy? Ms. Oshinski said a variety of mental health care is being offered. A veteran has tocome into the VA system to be evaluated first before going into the private sector to look forcare. Tom Ludka, service office for the American Legion, said that when a veteran calls tocancel and/or reschedule a C & P exam, the computer reads it as canceling his or her claim.Is there something that can be done to recode the computer program? Ms. Oshinski will look into the problem. Alan Walker, WI American Legion District Commander, asked if service

members are automatically checked for medical problems before they are released fromservice or do they have to come in on their own. Ms. Oshinski said there is a post-deployment health assessment. Ms. Guthrie said the intention is that they get medicalservices offered to them, the opportunity is there and it is up to the service member to takethe responsibility to get it. Rick Cherone asked if treatment is available to the children of deployed service members. Ms. Oshinski said legislation is being written to allow the VA tobegin to treat more than the veteran. Ken Kuehnl asked about the claims process backlogand where that stands. Seth Perelman, WDVA, said that information is received on a regularbasis and he would make sure it is shared with him.

4. Board Members’ Matters

Chairman Moran reported:• Thanks to Commandant Wistrom and the Union Grove staff for courtesies extended

throughout the Board meeting. Board members appreciated eating lunch with themembers of the Home.

• Received written testimony from the CVSO Association in support of theAdministrative Rule change allowing for the 180 day delimiting date on the pre-application requirement under the VetEd Grant Program.

• Received and responded to an inquiry from Victor Vela regarding placement of theWisconsin GI Forum on the Council on Veterans Programs.

• Attended the French Legion of Merit presentation on October 25th

at the MilwaukeeWar Memorial Center.

• As Chairman of the Board, addressed the membership at King on Veterans Day andlater in the day toured the central kitchen at King.

• Attended the dedication of Klein Hall at the Northern Center in Chippewa Falls onDecember 4th.

• Met with Secretary Scocos before the Klein Hall dedication to brief him on Boardactivities and initiatives.

• Met with Governor Doyle’s veterans’ policy advisor, Angela Russell, on December12th to talk about various Board and veteran matters.

4



• The first Veterans Lifetime Achievement Award was presented in October. Theaward will be given out again at the February meeting.

Vice Chairman Freedman reported:

• On December 7th he represented Chairman Moran and the Board at the 25th

anniversary of the opening of the Madison Vets Center. The event doubled as a

grand opening of their new location.

Rod Moen reported:

• Attended the dedication of Klein Hall in Chippewa Falls.

• Participated in the Veterans Day Program at his Alma Mater in Independence.

Bill Andersen reported:

• Attended a stand down hosted by CVSO Jim Gausmann on August 23rd. About 300veterans were taken care of that day.

Wally Stenavich reported:

• Attended the Veterans Day Program at Union Grove.• Attended a Pearl Harbor Day event on December 7th at Union Grove. Gold medals

were presented to the children of Staff Sgt. Todd R. Cornell that day. Staff Sgt. ToddR. Cornell, of West Bend, died November 9 in Fallujah, Iraq.

• Attended a Council and resident meeting at Gates Hall on November 7th. Departmentheads were there to answer member questions.

• Jim Fonte, WVH-UG, has ornaments for sale today.

Jackie Guthrie reported:

• Everyone uses the term veteran and everyone has a different definition of a veteran.The term veteran carries a lot of honor and to make the definition of a veteransynonymous with benefits, takes away that significance. In Wisconsin, we do have astatutory definition of what a veteran is and it says, “…..the men and women of Wisconsin who served on active duty in the U.S. Armed Forces or in forcesincorporated in the U.S. Armed Forces and the men and women who served in areserve unit of the United States Armed Forces and the men and women who servedin the National Guard.”

5. Board Discussion and Action on a Motion Recognizing the Service andAccomplishments of WDVA Secretary John R. Moses from 1961 - 1982

Mr. Freedman offered the following motion:

John R. Moses, Secretary of the Wisconsin Department of Veterans Affairs from 1961 – 1982,

passed away on Saturday, December 8, 2007 at the age of 88.

He entered military service in September 1941 and served 14 months in an anti-aircraft unit

at Dutch Harbor, Aleutian Islands during which time it came under Japanese air carrier

attack. In 1943, he graduated from Armored Force Officer Candidate School at Fort Knox,

Kentucky was later assigned to the 10th Armored Division and ordered overseas in August

1944. He participated in the attack of German forts at Metz, France, led the point platoon in

General Patton’s drive across the Moselle River to the Siegfried Line, was severely wounded

5



in combat on the German border and was subsequently hospitalized for 13 months. He

retired as a first lieutenant on permanent disability in December 1945.

Mr. Moses was educated at the University of North Dakota, George Washington University

and the University of Wisconsin, graduating in 1951 with a law degree. He practiced law for

10 years in Madison and Gays Mills and was active in the Gays Mills community. He was

appointed by Governor Gaylord Nelson as Director and then Secretary of the Wisconsin

Department of Veterans Affairs, serving from November 1961 to October 1982, a tenure far

longer than any of his predecessors or successors. He greatly expanded state programs of

assistance to veterans, including the part-time study grant program to enhance veterans’ job

skills, created a new veterans home loan program, created the only statewide outreach

program in the nation to find and assist returning Vietnam War veterans, directed the

conversion of the Wisconsin Veterans Home from an old soldiers’ home to one of the largest

skilled nursing care facilities for veterans in the nation, and improved and expanded the

exhibits at the Grand Army of the Republic Memorial Hall in the State Capitol in the 1960’s,

a museum dedicated to Civil War memorabilia which eventually was transformed into the

Wisconsin Veterans Museum, considered to be the finest state veterans museum in the United

States.

Mr. Moses was a member of the Disabled American Veterans, Veterans of Foreign Wars,

Retired Officers Association, Wisconsin Association of Concerned Veterans Organizations,

the 206 th CA (AA) Association, 10th Armored Division Veterans Association and the Military

Order of the Purple Heart.

He was always very proud of the many friendships and relationships he developed over the

years and countless people whose lives he touched took pride in calling him their friend,

including so many veterans whose service and sacrifice spanned generations.

The Board of Veterans Affairs joins the Wisconsin veterans community in mourning the loss

of John R. Moses, Secretary of the Wisconsin Department of Veterans Affairs from 1961 –

1982, and extends its deepest condolences to his wife, Mildred Jaynes Moses, his children,

stepchildren, grandchildren and great-grandchildren and all of his other family members and

friends.

The motion was seconded by Mr. Stenavich and carried unanimously on a voice vote.Mr. Moran asked for a moment of silent remembrance.

6. Presentation by McKinley Smith, Midwest Representative for The White HouseCommission on Remembrance

Mr. Smith was unable to attend the Board meeting. Board member Stenavich filledin by saying that the White House Commission on Remembrance is an independent, non-partisan, government agency. The Commission was established by Congress to promote thevalues of Memorial Day by acts of remembrance throughout the year. American’s, whereverthey are at 3 p.m. local time on Memorial Day, should pause in national unity. In this shared

remembrance we connect as Americans. It is something that we remember for the survivingchildren. Mr. Freedman said the presentation of gold medals to the children is part of aprogram from the Remembrance Commission and those gold medals are available to bepresented to the children of anyone killed in action. Please go to their website if you knowof children who might qualify.

7. Board Action from Committee and Council MeetingsCVSO Advisory Council, December 13, 2007. Mr. Solis said the Council had no

items for Board action.

6



Legislative and Program Review Committee, December 13, 2007. Mr. Freedmansaid the Committee acted upon two matters with recommendations to the Board. They areboth listed as Board agenda items 9 and 10. Mr. Freedman asked the Board Chairman toinvite Mr. Hardie to update developments with respect to QVMB.

Mr. Hardie said the House Ways and Means Committee contacted him shortly after

his Legislative Report yesterday and alerted him that the Senate had unexpectedly takenaction on H.R. 3997 and removed a number of provisions, including the QVMB provision.Oregon and Alaska as well, were not aware that this would happen. All the costs of H.R.3997, the Heroes Tax Act, were fully offset as is required in the current Congress and theHouse plans to take action as early as next week. It is expected that the House will send back the same version of H.R. 3997 as what was passed before. In the flurry of activity yesterday,Mr. Hardie coordinated a five-state teleconference (the other affected QVMB states) that willtake place today at 1:00 p.m.

Long Term Care Committee, December 13, 2007. Mr. Moen said the Committee hadno items for Board action. He highlighted that standardized, uniform reports are being

developed by the Department for ease of review by the Committee members. It wasdetermined that the financial data of the nursing homes should be going through the LongTerm Care Committee. Some Committee members recommended reconsideration of thecook-chill survey because there was mixed feelings among members as to whether or not thesurvey needed to be done.

Financial Committee, December 13, 2007. Mr. Andersen said the Committee had noitems for Board action. The Home Loans program balance is $24 million available for loans.We have between January and the end of the calendar year 2008 to add an additional $15million QVMB if necessary. In the May timeframe we have the opportunity for an additional$36 million in refunded bonds. Finally, $10 million in bonds that are currently available will

not be transferred into the Home Loan pot of money because the interest rate is notcompetitive in the market. Mr. Andersen said that $7 million will be transferred from theHomes account to the Trust Fund in the first of the year to be able to get the interest fromthat money. The State of Wisconsin Investment Board interest rate affects the amount thatwill be realized from this $7 million transfer. Mr. Andersen said that the Veterans Homesstudy is about to be completed and the Board will receive a briefing from the Department.This morning, Mr. Andersen received the information on the Gifts and Bequests fund that herequested from Commandant Crowley yesterday and it was all in order.

Council on Veterans Programs, December 14, 2007. Mr. Sorenson said the Councilhad no items for Board action. The Ad Hoc Committee met to discuss who future members

of the Council should be and the criteria they should follow in their recommendation to theLegislature. The American GI Forum addressed the Council. Mr. Joe Campbell gave anupdate on the Fisher House project and the VA enhanced use lease activities on theMilwaukee VA campus. The military license plate issue was explained by the Department of Transportation.

It was moved by Mr. Moen, seconded by Mr. Freedman and carried unanimously on avoice vote to accept the reports of the Committees and Councils.

7



11

Mr. Perelman asked that his remarks be made a part of the record and they are includedherewith as Attachment 1:

I have always prided myself on working unobtrusively; nevertheless, I am gratified to have what contributions Ihave made receive public recognition. So, in the first place, I want to thank those whose respect I enjoy fortheir kindness.

Secondly, as a member of the veterans’ community rather than as a retiring employee, I would like to remind allthose here today of something the great historian, Barbara Tuchman wrote in 1978. Please permit me to quoteher accordingly. She warned of the “overload of the negative”, namely “…the disproportionate survival of thebad side- of evil, misery, contention and harm. In history this is exactly the same as in the daily newspaper.The normal does not make news. ….This has led me to formulate Tuchman’s Law, as follows: ‘The fact of being reported multiplies the apparent extent of any deplorable development by five to tenfold’….”

I bring this concept to the attention of the Board because I hope that, as you do your laudable work of oversight, you will not lose your sense of proportion or therefore your awareness of the very significantachievements of this Department which I have been privileged to witness. I am referring to accomplishments,most of which enjoyed either the tacit or the active support of Governor Jim Doyle and which have affected thevery heart of this organization. This is as opposed to those relatively far less significant matters reported muchmore prominently and widely in the legitimate press and worse in the lies, deliberate distortions and

McCarthyite smear campaigns of a mere provocateur on the web.

Allow me to name just a few examples of these vital contributions to the veterans’ community:o Rescuing the Veterans Trust Fund from imminent insolvency.o Acting in concert with a few other states to secure Congressional approval of receipt of both

VA per diem and Medical Assistance for veterans at our homes thus greatly improving thefiscal posture of the institutions as well.

o Again, working with a few other states and our Congressional delegation in obtainingreenactment of QVMB and soon too hopefully its significant expansion.

o Working with Capitol Finance to create a SWAPS funding strategy, that along with QVMB,may assure the Mortgage Loan Repayment Fund.

o Creating Mission Welcome Home.o Considerably improving direct care staffing at King with a consonant improvement in labor

relations to an all time high.o Protecting veterans’ information against the possibility of its compromise inherent in the

Shared Information Systems Initiative.o Advocating for and defending the Wisconsin GI Bill.o Advocating for the Property Tax Credit.o Opening Gates and Boland Halls here at Union Grove.

The list goes on, but the point here is that I hope, in judging the work of this Department, you will not overloadthe negative for that would ultimately constitute an unfortunate disservice to Wisconsin’s community of veterans.

Thank you for allowing me a few moments to address you. I am providing Julie VanMetre with a copy of mycomments today because I would like them to be made part of the public record verbatim should anyone wish

to consider them further.



B O A R D M I N U T E S--CORRECTED

WISCONSIN DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS

Closed Session of December 14, 2007


The closed session meeting of the Board of Veterans Affairs was called to order at 12:20

p.m. on Friday, December 14, 2007 in Union Grove, Wisconsin.

It was certified that proper notification of the meeting had occurred.

A roll call of members was taken with the following members present: Moran,

Freedman, Moen, Stenavich, W. Andersen and Guthrie; and the following member

absent: M. Anderson. A quorum of the Board was present. No other parties were

present.

The matters noticed as the subjects of the closed session meeting were discussed. No

motions were made or acted upon as a result of the discussion

The closed session adjourned at 1:04 p.m.

Peter J. Moran, Chair

Board of Veterans Affairs

board minutes december 2007

Documents