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DaveAsprey: You'relisteningtoBulletproofRadio,withDaveAsprey.Today'scoolfactofthedayisthatyourbodymakesonanaverageday640quadrillionfreeradicals,unless,ofcourse,youdoenduranceexercise,inwhichcaseyoucanmultiplythatnumbertimes100.Now640quadrillionisabignumberbecauseyouhaveonlyonequadrillionmitochondriainyourbody,whichisinterestingbecausethatnumberismuchlargerthanthenumberofcellsinyourbody,whichisalsolargerthanthenumberofbacteriasinyourgut.Freeradicalsareacoolthingandwe'regoingtobetalkingaboutthosemoretoday.

Ifyou'reinterestedinthiskindsofthing...IfyousawthepodcastwithNaveenJain,recently,wetalkedaboutanewservicecalledViome,that'sV-I-O-M-E,thatgetsmeasurementsfourtimesayearofyourmitochondrialfunctionaswellastheentiregutbiome,yourfungalload,yourbacterialload,notjusttheload,buttheactualspeciesinvolved,includingvirusesandevenbacteriophages.ThisisprobablythemostexcitingnewsetofdatainthehumanbodythatI'vecomeacross.

So,youcanactuallyseewhetheryourmitochondriaaredoingwhatthey'resupposedtodoandwhetheralltheseexternalthingsthatareinyourbodyareaffectingyou.Ifyougotoviome.comandusecodeBulletproof...Infactrightnow,I'mprettysurethattheystillhavesomefreecopiesofHeadstrongleft,whichisagooddealandthat'swhilesupplieslast.Soyoumightgetoneofthoseandthey'llputyoutothefrontoftheline.There'sabigwaitlistforit.I'montheadvisoryboardofthecompany,butthey'renotpayingmetotellyoutodothat.Ijustthinkit'sincrediblycool.It'soneofthemostexcitingtechnologies.That'sviome.comwithcodeBulletproof.

Allright,nextup...Iwassupposedtoaskyouguys,ifyouhaven'tgonetoAmazonwithHeadstrong,andjustleftareviewI'dbereallygratefulifyoudidthat.Headstrongrecentlyhit...Thisactuallyblewmeaway.Headstronghitthesciencemonthlybestsellerlistrightbetweentworeallywell-knownbooks.One'scalledHomoDeusandtheotherone'scalledSapiens.ItwasonthesamelistasTheHiddenLifeofTreesandTheUndoingProject,andsomeotherjustepicbooks.So,asanauthor,thisisanunexpectedandjustahugehonortobeonthemonthlysciencelist,nottheadvicelist.

Ifyou'renotanauthor,maybeyoudon'tknowthedifferencebetweenthelist.But,technicallythatone'scalledthebigleague.SoifyoutakeasecondtojustreviewthebookonAmazonandsaythatitdidsomethingusefulforyou,Iwouldbereallygratefulforyoursupportonthat.

Allright.Today'sinterviewisgoingtobereallyfun.Thisisonethat'srecordedliveinstudioatBulletproofLabshereonVancouverIsland.So,ifyouhavea

chancetowatchitonvideo,you'llactuallyseealivevideoandattheendofthis,I'mactuallygoingtoshowyousomenewtechthat'scool.Youcangotobulletproof.com/YouTubetofindthechannelwithallthiskindofstuffonit,orifinyourcar,you'reatwork,andyou'renotgoingtodovideo,that'sokay.Wewon'tdoanythingthatyoucan'tprocesswithjustyourearsalone.

Today'sguestisHansEng,andwe'regoingtohaveanotherguesttowardstheendoftheshowaswell.Hanshasadegreeinmaterialsscienceandappliedtechnologyandhe'saco-founderofacompanycalledNanoVi,andNanoVi...Actuallythecompany'scalledEngThree.

HansEng: Engthree,yeah.

DaveAsprey: EngThree.TheymakeNanoVi,thereyougo.YoucantellI'vegotmyshownotesrighthere,butIreadthembackwards.So,NanoViisthestuffthatI'vebeenusinglately.It'sactuallyaformoftechandsomethingthat'sblownmeaway.But,IwantedtohaveHansonbecauseHansisoneoftheseguyswhocangoreally,reallydeeponthestructureofwater.Infact,heworkswithGeraldPollacksometimeswhowasalsoontheshow,whowroteTheFourthPhaseofWaterandspokeattheBulletproofConference.

So,we'regoingtotalkaboutwhat'sgoingoninyourmitochondria.Thisisthethemefortheyear,givenHeadstrong,andwe'regoingtotalkaboutfreeradicalsandwhenIspeakwithhim,Ijustfindthatthere'sanenormousamountofthings,littlesmalldetailsaroundproteinfoldingandstufflikethatthatI'mnotsuperclearonthathe'sclearon.Wewon'tmakeitsogeekythatyou'rejustbored,butyou'regoingtolearnathingortwoabouthowthebodyworksandhowyoucanhavealittlebitmorecontroloverhowmuchenergyyouhave.So,I'mprettyexcited.I'vedugdeepinthistechnologyandplayedwithitforawhile,buthaven'ttalkedaboutitbefore.ThisisafirsttimeI'mreallycomingoutwithit.

So,Hanswelcometotheshow.

HansEng: Thankyou,Dave.Thankyouforhavingmehere.

DaveAsprey: Now,youareobviouslyfromGermany.

HansEng: IamfromGermany,fromBerlin,yeah.

DaveAsprey: FromBerlin,andyourtraininginmaterialsciencewasinGermany?

HansEng: ItwasinGermany,yeah.Atfirst,Iworkedinthefieldatabigcompany,medicaldevicecompany.Wewerefocusedonthelatestmaterials,materialstructurethatisneededforimplants,forhipimplants.

DaveAsprey: Oh,neat.

HansEng: So,thatwasthepartwherecellbiologyisbasicallyconnectingtoaproductandmaterialsscienceisnotonlythemetalcomponent,itisalsothebiologicalmaterialforproteins.

DaveAsprey: Itisaridiculouslycomplexthingtodoimplants.LanaandIstartedamedicallabtestingcompanythatwasfundingbiological,basicallyimmuneresourcestoimplantmaterialsthatweren'twell-knownintheindustryforawhile.

HansEng: Mm-hmm(affirmative).

DaveAsprey: Andinfact,Iwouldcallitoneofthemorechallengingthingsandyouget...NooffenseElanifyou'relistening,butNeurolace,implantablestuffinthebrain,Ithinkwe'regoingtohavesomeproblemswithmaterialssciencetherethatarenotontheradar.Doyouagree?

HansEng: Yep.There'salotofchallenge.Wehavetoknowthesedifferentcomponentswhoareactuallyinthegametheretomaketherightchoice.

DaveAsprey: Okay.Bytheway,Ithinkwecangetthatfromthesurfaceoftheskin,orevenfromoffthebodywithouthavingtostickstuffinthebody,butthat'sjustme.Now,firstquestion,whydoalltheweirdandinterestingmedicaladvanceshappeninGermanyfirst?

HansEng: Competition,Iguess.Yeah,highcompetitionsimplytosurviveinafieldofalotofothercompanies,yeah,andyouhavetodigin.Youhavetoeducateasmuchaspossibleyourselfthataproductcomesoutthatisreliableandisprovingtowork.

DaveAsprey: So,wehavethisstereotypicalGermanprecisionwherethere'salotofrespectforGermanengineeringandBMW,thingslikethat.But,I'vealsojustasabio-hackerandananti-agingguy,formanyyears,someofthetopinnovations,theseareliketheycameoutoftheRussianspaceprogram,ortheycameoutofGermanyandit'saveryunnaturaldistributionacrossallofthedifferentcountriesoutthere.Istheresomesortoflikeaneducationalthing,aperspectiveofwhyistheperspectiveonenergeticmedicinecomingoutofGermanyfaraheadoftherestoftheworld?

HansEng: Onethingiseducation,profession,yeah.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: Wehave,asyouknow,inGermany,goodeducation.

DaveAsprey: Mm-hmm(affirmative).

HansEng: Thesystemgoesinalldifferentdirections.Andtwo,wehavedifferentapproaches,maybeevenintosociety,huh,topreventaproblemoftosolve

whenaproblemhappensin,adifferentway.So,therearesomeneatanddifferentsocieties.WhenweseeinGermanywehaveahighlyagingsociety,wehavetoaddresstheentirehealthstructureinsocietyinadifferentwaythanwehavetoaddressitinsomeothersocieties.

DaveAsprey: Iwashopingyouweregoingtosaybeer.Sorry.Ijusthadtosaythat.Beeris[inaudible].Youguysknowtotakeyourcharcoalifyou'regoingtohaveyourbeer,etc.,etc.,anddrinkGermanbeer.It'sgood,right?So,ifyou'regoingtodrinkbeer,ithasglutenandwhatever.Don'tdrinkbeer.Drinkvodka.Anyway,nottodistractfromthings.Let'stalkabouthowyoumigratedfrommedicaldevicesintosomething,whatyou'redoingwithEngThree.It'samedicaldevicethatmakes...TellmeifI'msayingthisright.Basicallyawatervaporthatisexclusionsonwater,thestuffthatGeraldPollacktalkedaboutthatcarriesacertainsignal.Howdidyougetintoeven,thinkingaboutcarryingasignalinstructuredwaterthatyoubreathe?

HansEng: Mm-hmm(affirmative).Yeah.Thegeneralbackgroundisacombinationofmaterialsscience.Weknowwhatbiomoleculeareandhowtheyworktoday,andallourproteinsarebio-molecules.Bytheway,theproteinswehaveinourbodyaretheworkhorsesforanykindoffunctionourbody'sexecutedbytheseproteinsandwecallthemenzymes,hormones,alotofmotorproteins,yeah?So,everythingthatisbeingexecutedthatwecanlive,isdonebyproteins,yeah?

So,weknowthestructuresandmorethan100years,ithasbeenwellresearchedallthesethings.Weknowthequantityofhowmanywehave.Weassumethatourbodyhasonemilliondifferentproteins,yeah,andtoaddresstheproblemsthatcomewithlossofproteinfunctionforourapproachisnottoreplacemissingproteinordamagedprotein,itistoimprovethebody'sabilitytoreinstalltheproteinfunction.So,thatisourbackground.Thesecondoneisbiophysics.Wearenotinchemistry.Weare...Ourbackgroundisphysicsandisaprocessoftheproteinfunctioninstallmentistheproteinfoldingthatisapurebiophysicalprocessandthatisrelatedtotheenvironmentwheretheproteinsareembeddedandthatisthewaterinthecell.

DaveAsprey: Inthepast20orsoyearsoflookingatcomputationalbiology,we'vehadthisproblem,whichwashowdowepredicthowaproteinisgoingtofold.So,wegetasetofinstructionsfromDNA,andthenweunwrapitwithRNA-


DaveAsprey: ...andreaditbasicallyandthenwesay,"Allrightwe'regoingtomakeaprotein,"andtryingtopredicthowthatproteinisgoingtolook,likehowit'sgoingtofold,hasbeenjustfromacomputerscienceperspective,reallydifficult,andwe'vegottentheretothepointwe'rerelativelypredictivesomeofthetimewouldyousay?

HansEng: Mm-hmm(affirmative).Mm-hmm(affirmative).Mm-hmm(affirmative).

DaveAsprey: Whatyou'retalkingaboutthoughislessabouthowanewproteinisformedandmoreabouthowanexistingproteingetseitherdamagedorunfolded,ormisshapenandthengetsrepaired,right?

HansEng: Yeah.Yeah.Theproteinfoldingsequenceis...R&Dthatweandresearchthatweseetodayisveryoftenrelatedtotheintenttoproduceanartificialprotein.


HansEng: ...thatwillreplaceamissingcomponentofourbody.Ourapproachis,assumingthatwehavetherightaminoacidsinourbody,weneed20tobuildalltheproteinsinthere.

DaveAsprey: Andthatcomesfromfood.

HansEng: Thatcomesfromfood.10ofthemwehavetoeat,theother10ourbodyproduces.Then,assumingthattheDNAiscorrectfortheblueprintthatcreatesaminoacidchaintobuildthefirstlevelfortheproteinthatthatallworks.Thenextandthelastmostimportantstepinthebodyistheproteinfolding.Andtheproteinfoldingmechanismisathermodynamicprocessthatisthesameforallproteins.

DaveAsprey: So,ifsomeone'slisteningtotheshowrightnow,they'reprobably...Ifthey'renotintoreallydeepbiologystuff,whywouldyoucareaboutproteinfolding?

HansEng: Mm-hmm(affirmative).Onlythefoldedprotein'sabletoexecutethetaskthatitisdesignedfor.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: Sotheunfoldedproteinisnotpossibletodoanythinginourbody.Theusualandnaturalprocessisfoldingofproteinandit'salsonatural,youmentionedatthebeginning,theoxidativestressthatalwaysoccurs[inaudible00:12:20]ourbody,willalsoalwaysdamagetheproteins.So,thatisanaturalprocess.Bymorehavingahighertaskinourlifestyle,wearedoingsport,wehaveafarhigherperformancelevelinourdailylife.Whenwethinkaboutit,it'sthinkingforseveralhoursintensivelythinking,generate,needthesameamountofATP,likerunningamarathon.So,ifwedothisandwearedoingitnow,farlaterinourlife,because[crosstalk].

DaveAsprey: Ifwedoexerciseyou'resaying,or...Okay.

HansEng: Yeah.Ifweareworkinghard,ifwearesittinginoffice,butworkinghard,wearerunningmarathonswithourbrain.Weareproducingtheoxidativestress.Weareproducingthedamagingevents.So,thequestionishowcanweassistthebodytorepairthisdamage?Wearenotinterestedtoavoidthedamage.That's

yourlifestyle,yourenvironmentisthistorepairsothatyoucankeepyourperformancelevelhigh.

DaveAsprey: Isitsafetolookatleastsomeoftheproteinsinthebodyaslittlemolecularmachines?

HansEng: Absolutely.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: Absolutely,andtheyareworkingveryfastasoneoftheproblemswhywedon'tknowsomuchaboutthem.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

HansEng: Theyarefoldinginpicoseconds.Theyhaveveryshortlifetime.Theyareonlytherewhentheyareneededintherightamount,attherightplacewhentheyareneeded.Alsoproteinsareturningunnecessaryproteinsoff.So,thereissomeconstantlylittle...Wecallitselectivity,kindofthethunderstorminourselves,turningon,turningoff,soandhavingthebest[crosstalk].

DaveAsprey: So,wehavetheselittleproteinsandifyouevergetachancetoseeoneonon-lineandprobablyintheblogpost.I'llgetsomepictureson,buttheseareincrediblycomplex.Theylooklikeaballofyarn,basically.

HansEng: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Likeverycomplexandwhatitdoes,it'salittlemachineandinordertopowerthemachine,we'regettingelectronsthatcomefrommitochondria,right?Mitochondria'sgeneratingthesethings.Imaybesimplifying.TellmewhereI'moversimplifying.

HansEng: Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.Theproteins,theyareexecutingthen,biochemicallyalotofwork.

DaveAsprey: Right.

HansEng: AndthefuelforbiochemicalsreactiontotheATP-

DaveAsprey: Right.

HansEng: ...thatiswhythemitochondriaproducesATPoutofoxygenandglucose-


HansEng: ...tofuelourbiochemicalreactions.

DaveAsprey: So,theATPessentially,whenoneoftheP'sisstrippedoff,itfreesupanelectron.Itgoesthroughanelectrontransportchain,whichisthenusedbytheproteins?

HansEng: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: So,theproteindoesn'tuseATPdirectly.Itusesanelectronthat'sbasicallymadethroughtheATPresynthesis.

HansEng: Yeah.Yeah.Theyaredifferentmechanisms.So,twoproteins,severalproteinscometogether,theycreateanewmoleculethatisexecutingsomethingoutofsomething-

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: ...verycomplex.

DaveAsprey: So,we'llseeifwecanzoomoutonthatforlistenerswhoaren'tasgeekyasmaybeyouandIare.Ifyouweretolookatthislittlemachine,averytiny,veryfastactingprotein,andit'sgottogetrawmaterials,whichmaybeotherproteins,theymaybeaminoacids,itmaybefats,whatevertheinputsare,anditneedsenergytodothis,andwhatweknowandcertainlywhatyou'vebeenworkingwithforawhileisthatwhenyoumakethatenergy,andyouusethatenergyinproteinsyoucausedamagetosomeoftheproteinssomeofthetime.Theybecomefoldedthewrongway.Theybecomedamaged.

HansEng: Yes.

DaveAsprey: Accurate?

HansEng: Basically,unfolded,thatisthemostcommonthing.

DaveAsprey: Okay.


DaveAsprey: Theyunfoldandthentheymustberefoldedsothattheycanbefunctionalproteins.Whathappensifyouhaveproteinsthataredamagedorunfoldedorthatareshapedthewrongwaybecauseofbiologicalactivity?Whatdotheydointhebodyifthey'rehangingaround?

HansEng: Yeah.Unfoldedproteinssimplydonothing.

DaveAsprey: Well,theytakeupspaceataminimum,right?

HansEng: Theytakeupspace,yeah.So,the[inaudible00:16:07],theDNA,theblueprintcreatestheseproteins.Theyareinthere.Theydon'tdoanything.

DaveAsprey: Theydon'tcreatefreeradicals,theydon'tmakeyougetwrinkles.

HansEng: No.Theydon'tdoanything.Theycouldnotexecuteanybiochemicalreaction.No.


HansEng: So,thereforetheyareprettyuseless.

DaveAsprey: They'reuseless,butImeanif50%ofyourbodyweightwasmisfoldedproteins,we'dbefat,right?

HansEng: Youdon'tevenneed50%.Youneedfarless.Yousimplystopliving.

DaveAsprey: Right.Okay.So,it'snotagoodthingtohavenon-functioningproteinsinthebody.

HansEng: Right.

DaveAsprey: You'llbemoreusefulandhavemoreenergyiftheproteinsyouhaveareallabletodowhattheywereprintedfromDNAtodo.

HansEng: Yes.Yes.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: So,everyoneknowshemoglobin,that'saprotein.

DaveAsprey: Probablynot.So,hemoglobinisaproteininyourbloodthatcarriesoxygen.Okay.

HansEng: Yeah.Andiftheyarenotworkinganymore,forexample,wecannottransportoxygenanymore-

DaveAsprey: Right.

HansEng: ...ifnotlowoxygengeneration.Ifyouhavecertainenzymesinyourdigestionsystemthatarenotworking,theyhavetobethere,butthey'reunfolded,notworking,youdon'tmetabolizefood.So,youseethatifthefunctionislost,iftheproteinfoldingisn'tthere,thefunctionislost.Andmostofthefunctionsthatweloseorcanlosearenotrecognizablebyusbecausemorethanonemillionproteinsrunallthefunctions.Mostofthefunctionsinourbodyarenotrecognizable.

DaveAsprey: Andthatwejustdon'tknowwhattheyare.

HansEng: Andwedon'tknowwhattheyare.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: Andwealsocannotinfluence...Wecannotinfluencethespeedofourdigestion.Wecannotinfluenceinalotofareasourautonomicsystem.So,wecannotinfluencethegrossspeedofourself.

DaveAsprey: Butwait,wecan,right,justtakehumangrowthhormone,forinstance.Itseemslikewehavesomeinfluencethere.

HansEng: Yeah.Whenyoutakethesehormonesbecausetheyaremissing,butiftheyareinyourbody,youcannotwithyourmindoranything,youcannotinfluencetoworkthembetter.

DaveAsprey: Areyousureaboutthat?

HansEng: Kindof,yeah.

DaveAsprey: So,thereasonI'maskingthatisifyoudosay,heartratevariabilitytrainingexercisesorwiththeneurofeedbackstuffthatwedoat40years,thenweincorporateheartratevariability.But,youcanactuallydothingswithyourbrainthataffectyourheart.Whenyourheartbeatchanges,themagneticfieldaroundtheheartchanges.


DaveAsprey: Themitochondriaarelisteningtothat.


DaveAsprey: Youcaninfluenceenergyproductions-

HansEng: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: ...whichtheninfluencesproteingeneration.Anotherthingthatisn'twell-knownisthatwhenyouhaveketonespresent,andthisiscool...Whethertheycomefromexogenousketones,likebrainoctane,butnotnecessarilyfromketonesaltsbecausehalfofthemarenotbio-identical,slightissuethere,youactuallycanmoreeasilyreadtheDNAthroughsomethingcalledHDAC.


DaveAsprey: Andso,thingslikethatandenvironmentalinputallowsyoutomakemoreenergyortomoreeasilygetinstructionslikethat.Itseemslikewehavesomedegreeofcontrol,butwedon'thaveitattheproteinwherewecansay,"Thisprotein,wedon'tevenknowwhatitdoesformostofthem."So,wecansay,"Thisproteinhelpsregulatethat."Justbecauseit'stoocomplex,butthere's

highlevelthingswecandomeditationwiseorbreathingorcold,environmentalvariablesthatweknowtrickledown50,000stepstomakeaproteindifferent.

HansEng: Right.Right.IfyouareabletoconsciouslyinfluenceinourATPproduction-


HansEng: ...thatiswhatwedowithcorrectbreathingtoavoidotherusesforATP.So,asIsay,weshouldnotdo...Wecanoverrideourproteinfunctioncapacityby,forexample,notgivingenoughtimetoourbodytodocertainthings,yeah?So,ifIdecide,youmentionedanamountofmitochondriathatwehavethatalsotellsusthatweonlyhaveacertainamountofATPthatwecoulduse.So,ifweoverridetheuseofATPbysimplysayingIdosport.Idoexercise,orIdothinking-


HansEng: ...thisATPisnotavailableforus,averyimportanttaskforbio-molecules.So,inthismoment,wecannothaveagoodautonomicsystembalancethatusesATPifitisnotavailablebecausewedosport,orwedo...Weforceourbodytodootherphysicalormentalperformance.Thentheperformanceisnotbeingexecuted.

DaveAsprey: So,you'resayingifyouovertraininthegym,oryouoverworkintheoffice,orwhereverelse,thatyou'reusingthisenergythatprobablyshouldhavegonetomakingbetterproteinsinthebody.

HansEng: Yeah.Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: Andweallknowthatifyoudon'thaveenoughrestandwedon'tsleepenough,wearenotregeneratingenoughbecausetherepairprocessneedsATP,andifthatisnotavailable,wearenotregenerating.

DaveAsprey: ThisisoneofthereasonsthatwhenIworkwiththeseCEOtypeswhoaretypeA,notonlydoIwanttogrowmycompanyrapidly,I'malsogoingtorunanultra-marathon.I'mgoingtodotheKonaIronMan,andI'mgoingtoflyallaroundtheworldwhileI'mdoingallofthis.


DaveAsprey: Andthenyoulookattheirheartratevariability,theirautonomicnervoussystemistrashedandmybeliefafterwritingHeadstrongisprettyclearthatthere'sanenergythat'sgoingonhere.Itstartswithmitochondria.Therejustisn'tenoughenergy.Evenifyoueatmore,evenifyougointoketosis,evenif

youdothesethings,thereisn'tenoughtime,andenergyandcommunicationinthecellstoallowfullrepairandrecovery,soyoustartdeclining.


DaveAsprey: Youalsohaveconcentratedverymuchonfreeradicalformation.Wementionedatthebeginning...Infactthecoolfactofthedaywassomethingthatyoutoldmeaboutthefactthatifyou'redoingenduranceexerciseregularly,you'regetting100timesmorefreeradicalsthannormal.Andthatisn'tnecessarilyabigthinginthatfreeradicalscanbehelpful.

HansEng: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: But,theycanalsobeharmfuldependingonwhattheyareandwheretheyareandwhetheryouhaveenoughenergytodealwiththem.Talkalittlebitmoreaboutwhatfreeradicalsdointhiswholesystemofproteinfolding.

HansEng: Yeah.LikeIsaid,freeradicalsarenotonlyharmful,theyareveryessential.

DaveAsprey: Mostpeopledon'tknowthat.We'vebeenprogrammedthrough35yearsofantioxidantswillsavetheworldsortofthingtobelievethatfreeradicalsarebad.


DaveAsprey: Whatisagoodfreeradicalversusabadfreeradical?

HansEng: Yeah.Theyarethesamemolecules.Thequestioniswhatkindoftaskstheyaredoing.So,anykindofinflammationisinvolvingahugeamountoffreeradicals.So,thefreeradicalsarekindofaprotectionshieldforourentirebody.

DaveAsprey: Freeradicalsareaprotectionshield.Okay.

HansEng: Yeah,thinkaboutifyouhaveasplinter-

DaveAsprey: Uh-huh(affirmative).

HansEng: ...oryouhaveanopenwoundandviruses,bacteriaarecominginthere.Theyhavetobekilledbythebody.So,theonlythingthatthebodycanproducebesideantibodiesthatisifyouhaveanotherleak,freeradicals.

DaveAsprey: Wemakehydrogenperoxideinourimmunecellstokillthings,right?

HansEng: Right.

DaveAsprey: Andhydrogenperoxideisafreeradical.

HansEng: Absolutely.So,itisavery,veryimportantprotectionshieldforus.

DaveAsprey: Okay.So,that'scertainlyapositiveuseoffreeradicals.But,that'snotnecessarilywhatyou'redoingifyou'rerunningahundredmiles.

HansEng: Yeah.Thefreeradicalsarealso,whentheygointochemicalreactionswithdifferent...Otherthingsarecreatingorarecausingproteindamage.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: So,theproteinisunfoldingthatmostcommondamage.TheyarefallingapartandlikeIsaidthisveryweirdnotthateveryproteinisunfoldingandnowtheycannotexecutethisanymore.Thegoodthingisnowthatthese,someofthesefreeradicalsareveryspecificfreeradicalsthatisanexcitedoxygenatom,isabletotriggertherepair,toassistwiththerepair.

DaveAsprey: So,somefreeradicalstellthecellit'stimetofixyourself,buddy.Otherfreeradicalsthough,likeperoxynitrite,forinstance,anddomeoftheseotherthingsaremaybenotevergoodforus,rarelygoodforus,helpmeunderstandthis.

HansEng: Yeah.Likewejustdiscussed,ifthefreeradicaldamagesamoleculethatisnecessaryforus,weclaimitasbad.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: Ifit'sdamagedthemolecule,likeavirus,thatisnotgoodforus,wecallitgood.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: So,itdependsalwaysonwhichkindof[inaudible00:24:54]wearelookingat.Iffreeradicalsareessentialinthebody,theyarepartofanyinflammationandrepairprocess,ifwesuppressthefreeradicalactivityinthisprocess,weareevenrunningintobiggerproblems.

DaveAsprey: Infact,ifyouweretofullysuppressfreeradicalproductioninyourbody,whatwouldhappen?

HansEng: Wewouldcometothispointwhenourtechnology'sdoing,orwhatweapplythere,isbasicallyproteinswouldnotbeabletofold.

DaveAsprey: Youwoulddie.

HansEng: Youwoulddie.

DaveAsprey: Yeah,andthatisareallyimportantthing.Justlikewe'vehadthisridiculousthingwherepeoplesaysaltisbadforyou.Therefore,eatnosalts,whichisterribleforyou,right?Andinfact,there'sprettygoodevidencethatgetting

muchsaltisveryhardtodobecausewejustnoticedthateatingahighsaltdietletsyoueat25%morecalorieswithoutgainingweight.That'sinteresting.

HansEng: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: But,thepointis,inalmosteverysinglenutritionaldogmathat'soutthere,ketosisisanexample.Sugarisevil,andyoumustneverhaveanycarbsfortherestofyourlife,oryou'reabadperson,andifyou'reendlesslyinketosis,that'sprobablynotidealformostpeople.Youmightwanttocomeoutofthatonoccasion.So,it'saboutgettingtherightdose.

HansEng: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Withfreeradicals,there'stypesoffreeradicals.There'sdosesoffreeradicals,right?Howdoessomeonelisteningthisknow,"Allright,sosometimesIwantfreeradicals,sometimesIdon't."Whatdoyoudowiththatknowledgethatsometimes...What'sactionablethere?

HansEng: Thatisexactlythedifficulttaskinalleyes.Yeah.Yeah.Also,tomonitorexactlywhendoweproducemorethanwewanted.It'snotonlythesportandthemarathonthatwearerunning.Ifweareforcingourbodytometabolizeanything-

DaveAsprey: Oh,likemargarine,whichgetsmassesoffreeradicalsthatdon't,right?

HansEng: Yeah,orifyougobacktothebeer,weareeatingsomething.Wearemetabolizing,andsoifIneededATP.ATPneedsoxygen.Oxygenproducesfreeradicals.So,anykindofbiochemicalreactionthatweareforcingourbodytodo,producesfreeradicals,notalwaysbad,veryoftentheyareveryimportantalso,likewealreadyvisitedthistopic.Thebiologythatevolvedovermillionsofyears,isdealingwithoursituationtohandlethefreeradicals.Anditprettydevelopedaverysmartway.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: Andwhenwethinkaboutthatwetalkaboutanti-aging,livinghealthier,performingbetter,thatinvolvesmorenotavoiding.Italsoinvolvesmoreimprovingtherepaircapacityinourbodywhenweareexposedtothisdamage.

DaveAsprey: So,anexampleofthatwouldbeyoudosomecurls,right?


DaveAsprey: You'recreatingfreeradicalsinyourbicep,right,andthisiscausingahormeticstress.Hormesisistheideathatwhatdoesn'tkillyoumakesyoustronger.But,ifyouweretooverwhelmthebicepwithfreeradicalstothepointyoujustdamagedsomanyproteinsitcouldn'trepair,you'dgetgangreneatacertain

point.Andyoucouldactuallykillmuchofthecells,right?So,there'salineinthere,ifI'mdoingcurls10timesaday,everyday,I'mprobablygoingtocreatemorefreeradicalsthanmybodycanuseasasignalingmoleculetorepair.I'mjustdoingtoomuchdamage.AmIgettingthis?

HansEng: LikeIsaid,thebodyisvery,verysmartinbiology.Aslongasyourbodyhasthecapacitytorepairthisdamage-


HansEng: ...andeverybodyhasthecapacitytorepairthisdamage-

DaveAsprey: Andthecapacityisbasedonenergy,likeATP,orwhat'sitbasedon?

HansEng: Thatis...Thecapacitytoprovidetheneededenergyforthethermodynamicprocesstorefolddamagedproteins.

DaveAsprey: Okay.IwanttobeWolverine,right?So,Wolverine,theX-Mencharacterwhoyoucancuthim,andshoothim,andmagicallyherebuildshisproteinsreally,reallyquickly.HowdoIgetmybodytoheallikeI'mthreeyearsold,orfiveyearsold,insteadof44yearsold.Thisisaproteinandenergythingattheendoftheday.What'syourtakeonthat?Youspent10yearsworkingonthisfreeradicalproblemandcellfoldingwithEngThree.We'regoingtotalkalittlebitmoreaboutwhatyou'vediscovered.But,whatcanIdonow?

HansEng: Ourapproachisnottomakeyouyounger.

DaveAsprey: Uh-huh(affirmative).

HansEng: Ourapproachistounderstand...Ourunderstandingistoslowyouraging.

DaveAsprey: Thatseemskindofweak.Can'tyoujustmakemeyounger?

HansEng: Therearesomanyotherthingsinvolvedinthis-

DaveAsprey: Sorry.Ijusthadtosaythat.SlowingagingisactuallyabigpartofwhatI'mdoingnowsoIcangettothetechnologiesthatmakemeyounger.

HansEng: So,anotherthing,agingisthesimplestpartofourcycleoflife.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

HansEng: Theworstcasescenarioisactuallythatwegetinsteadofdistributabledamagingeffect,aging,age-relatedlossofproteinfunction...Theworstcaseisthatwegetachronicdisease.Damagehappensonacertainareasofproteinsandwerunintochronicdisease.


HansEng: Andweseethatpeoplearerunningintochronicdiseaseinyoungagesforalotofdifferentreasons.

DaveAsprey: You'retalkingcancer,Alzheimer's,heartdisease,diabeteskindofstuff?

HansEng: Diabetes,cancer,yes,chronicdisease.Thisisawholerange.Theyrunintodifferentreasons,onearegeneticreasons,oneproteinarebeingbuilt,ortheycertainlynotenoughproteinsarenotbeingbuilt.Theotherthingis,theenvironmentalexposurecreatesorcannotkeepupwithrepairingcorrectproteinsandtheyrunintothisproblem.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: Theseareleadingalltoalossofperformance,cellularperformance.Andweashumans,webasicallyareconcentratedontheperformancethatisimportantforus.So,thinking,sport,physicalthing.Performanceinthedropsthatisgettingdownandbeinghandicappedwiththosethingsandwecannotchangeourenvironment...We,Imean,ourcompanycannotchangetheenvironmentthatyoulivein.Whatwehavethetooltoimprovetherepaircapacity.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: Itdoesn'tmatterinwhatkindofenvironmentyouare.

DaveAsprey: Abigpartofmyanti-agingstrategy,andI'vebeeninafewreallybigmediaplaceslately,becauseIjustfound...Iwaslike,"Guys,I'mplanningtoliveto180plus.Idon'tthinkit'sunreasonable."Withwhatweknowtoday,120isachievablejustbymodulatinglifestylestuff,eatingright,doingthethingsthatmakeyoulivealongtime.Inthenext80orsoyears,I'mprettysurethatwe'llseesomeimprovementsintechnologiesbecausewelllookwhathappenedoverthelast80years,thingslike,ohwediscoveredmitochondria,andantibiotics,afewthingswedidn'tknow.

HansEng: Yeah.Mm-hmm(affirmative).

DaveAsprey: So,overthenext80years,weouttobeabletoadd60years,Ifactprobablyalotmorethanthat.Idon'tthinkI'mbeingradicalwith180.So,rightnow,agingisdeathbyathousandcuts.Andalotofthosearefreeradicalcuts,orproteindamagingcuts,right-


DaveAsprey: ...whereokay,itwasjustoneproteinthatdidn'tworkandthenanotheroneandeventuallylike,okay,there'salotofrepairthatneedstohappenhereand

ourabilitytorepairdeclineswithtimeasourmitochondrialfunctiondeclineswithtime.


DaveAsprey: So,youfixyourmitochondrialfunction,andyou'vegotmoreenergyforrepair,butthenyoustillneedthesignalsthatcausetherepairandoldpeopledon'thealasfastasyoungpeople.Ijustwroteapieceaboutparabiosis.Youtakebloodfromyoungpeopleandputitinoldpeople,andtheygetyounger.


DaveAsprey: Bytheway,I'mnotdoingthat.There'sashortcut.Youdon'thavetodothat.Youcouldjustusetheproteinsthatareintheoldpeople,orsorry,thatareintheyoungpeople.They'reinjectable.But,inthemeantime,whatyou'vebeenworkingonforthelast10yearsissomethingthatallowsthathealingcapacityinthecells.Itbasicallysendsasignaltothecellstohealfaster.

HansEng: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: So,ifyoudolessofwhatcausesdamageandspeedhealing,theideawouldbethatyoucanextendataminimumwhatwecallhealthspan,whichisyourabilitytobeyouthfulandhealthyasyourold.Noonewantstobe100yearsoldifitmeansyou'reinaretirementhome.

HansEng: Mm-hmm(affirmative).Yeah.

DaveAsprey: But,ifyou'reahundredyearsoldandyou'reoutridingyourbikeandhikingwithyourgreatgrandkids,it'sadifferentpicture,andthat'swhatI'dliketoataminimumdoandIplantodothatwhenI'm180withmygreat,great,greatgrandkidsorsomethinglikethat.

HansEng: Yeah.Yeah.

DaveAsprey: So,what'stheapproach?Justdescribetheoverallapproachyou'vetakentospeedingproteinhealingorpreventingdamage.

HansEng: Yeah.You'reabsolutelyright.Wecangetfarolder.Yeah,whenyouaskedthat-

DaveAsprey: Howoldareyougoingtobe?

HansEng: Well,IhopethatIcanget500years,becausetherearesomanythingsthatIwouldliketoseewhathappensin500years.

DaveAsprey: So,everyone'shopingfor500years,butwhatdoyouthinkisachievableforyoutoday?

HansEng: I'mverycarefulbecausewearenotdoing-

DaveAsprey: YouGermans.

HansEng: Iamtoomuchscience.Yeah.Becausepeopleaskfornumbersandsensiblevalidation.Mygoalistogetaslongaspossiblecombinedwithashealthyaspossible.So,wearealreadygettingfarolderthanthelasttwogenerations,yeah?


HansEng: Andyoumentionedtodoalotofactivitieswithyourkidsandthosethings.Wearestartingtosortofforcecareerandbusinesswhenwearemid60today.


HansEng: Twogenerationsbefore,weweresittinginarockingchaironaporchat60.And60,andtherewasnoideatohavethisperformancelevelthatwehavetoday.

DaveAsprey: Areyoustronger,smarter,faster,youngernowthanyouwerefiveyearsago?

HansEng: Definitelymentally,Iwouldsay.

DaveAsprey: So,yourbrain'sworkingbetternowthanitwas.

HansEng: Yeah.Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Andit'sokayifyousayno.It'sahardquestionbecauseyoudon'twanttosay,"Well,Idon'tknowwhatI'mdoingscientifically.Weallareaging,butI'mfindingthatwhenpeoplearereallypayingattentiontothis,alotofpeoplearesayingIhavebetterfacultiesthanIdidbefore.

HansEng: Yeah.Yeah.Simplyyouhadenoughtimetoapplymoreknowledge.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: Andyoucanexecutebetteronabiggerscale,differentinfluencesfromyourknowledgesothatallgivesabetterpictureofhavingahigherperformance.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: Youusemoretoolsthanyouhadifyouhaveenoughtimetocollectthesetoolsanyway.

DaveAsprey: Gotit.So,you'redefinitelyseeingsomeeffect.So,backtothisquestionofwhat'syourapproachtoeitherfixingorimprovingthisproteindamageandproteinfoldingproblem?

HansEng: Yeah.Ourapproachistoassistthebodiesveryidenticallytohavetheproteinfoldedandrefoldedagain.

DaveAsprey: Whatdoesthatmean?

HansEng: Theprocessinthecellsforproteinfoldingisabiophysicalprocess.Itmeansastheproteinsunfoldedhavetogetenergyintotheproteinssothattheyrefold.Also,it'sthermodynamicandunfavoreddirectionfromtheunfoldedtothefoldedstate.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: So,onlywiththehelpofenergyinputthathappens.Thequestioniswheredoestheenergycomefrom?Whatkindofenergyisit?Whenwearetalkingaboutabiophysicalprocess,ithastobethermodynamickineticenergy.So,sincedecades,youknowthattheproteins,whichIembeddedinthewaterinthecell,havetobesurroundedbywatermolecules,whichhaveahigherorder,whichmeansvisuallyseeingthesemoleculesarealittlebitclosertogetherandhaveacertainkindofdirectionhowtheyarelocatedaroundtheproteins.Thenwhenenoughoftheseorderedwaterproteinsarearound,alotofwatermoleculesarearoundtheprotein,theproteincanaswesaid,cansuckouttheenergyandturnintoanextstateinadifferentstateofthermodynamic...It'schangingtheentropy.

DaveAsprey: Allright.Thatwasalittledeepfortheaverageperson.EvenIwashavingahardtimefollowingthat.Allright.Takemeupalevel.What'sgoingonthere?

HansEng: Okay.Yeah.Thewatermoleculesareproviding...Theorderofthewatermoleculesareprovidingtheenergytotheproteinstofold.Thenextquestionwouldbehowarethewatermoleculesaregettingthisorder?Thatisanenergeticprocess,acertainkindofenergyhastogetabsorbed-

DaveAsprey: Whenyousaythewatermoleculesareordered,nowwe'retalkingaboutstructuredwater,whichusedtobeconsideredlikethiswoo,woosciencething.AfterGeraldPollackwrotehisbookanddidlikefiveyearsofcorerwaterbiophysics,watermoleculesactuallydolineupinbiologyandit'snotthesameasthewaterwedrink.It'sadifferentphaseofwaterthat'srequiredforustofoldproteins,andrequiredforustomakeenergyinourmitochondria,right?

HansEng: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Andyou'resaying,sowerequireenergytoputwaterinthatstate-

HansEng: Yes.

DaveAsprey: ...sothatwecanfoldourstuff.

HansEng: Absolutely.Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Allright.

HansEng: Mm-hmm(affirmative).Andthisenergythatisrequiredtogetthiswaterinthestateisalwaysproducedinthecellandthere-

DaveAsprey: Bymitochondria?

HansEng: ...anotherfreeradicalisbeingtheimportantthing.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: Thatiswhyanother,whythere'sanotherreasonthatthefreeradicalsaresoimportant.Oneveryspecificfreeradicalisanexcitedoxygenatom.Unavoidable,alwaysbeingproducedbythemitochondria.Excitedoxygens,generallyexcitedatomsdoesn'twanttostayinsideofit.

DaveAsprey: Andthisisbecauseasweuseanelectron,whenit'sdone,we'vegottoputitsomewhereandweputitonanoxygenmolecule.Isthataccurate?Kindofsimplistic,butI'mtryingtobuildoutasenseof-

HansEng: Yeah,kindofsimplistic,it'smorelikelythatthemoleculeisbeingrippedapartintheATPproduction.Oneoftheatomshastobe[inaudible00:39:32]discarded.It'snotneeded.But,duringtheseparationofthetwomolecules,ithappenssometimesthattheelectronoftheoneatomisgettingpulledtotheoutside.

DaveAsprey: Thisisanelectronleak,andmitochondrialinefficiencieswascreatingthis.

HansEng: Andthiselectronthenjumpsbackandisemittingamaterialfingerprintoftheelectromagnetic-

DaveAsprey: Andthat'sthesignalthattellsthecelltostartfixingprotein.

HansEng: Yes,thesignalisanelectromagneticwave.Theelectromagneticenergy,highlyabsorbablebywatermolecules,bywater.Alotofotherelectromagneticenergyisnotabsorbedbywater.

DaveAsprey: ThisiswhyIwantedtohaveyouiontheshowbecausenoone'seversaidthisbeforeinawaythatIcouldcomprehendandIdugdeepwhenIwasdoingallthisresearchonthebook.IfIunderstandwhatyou'resayingcorrectly,ifyouthinkofthewaymaybeafluorescentlightworksormaybeaneontube,right-


DaveAsprey: ...wehaveagasinthere.Youexcitethegas,andthenitemitssomething.Thesamething'shappeninginourcells,butit'sjustatamuchhigher...It'sinan

invisiblewavelength,likeit'safarinfrared,oraveryfarinfraredlightthatisgeneratedinthecells,so1,200nanometersorsomethinglikethat,waybeyondwhatwecouldsee,butit'shappeninginourbodyallthetime,andit'sbiologicallyreallyimportant.

HansEng: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Whyisthatsignalthat'screatedbyfreeradicalssoimportant?

HansEng: Thewbiologicalimportantthingiswhatisabletoabsorbthisenergy?

DaveAsprey: So,wemakethatenergywhenfreeradicalshappen.Itchangesthewaterby...Basically,thewaterabsorbsit.Andwhenthewaterabsorbsit,whathappenstothewater?

HansEng: It's[inaudible00:41:16]ofthesewatervessels.Likewesayinthecell,it'sasurface,thewatermoleculesaregettingordered.

DaveAsprey: Theygetordered.So,thisiswhatcauseswatertochangefrombeingwhatyoudrink,whatyoucallbulkwater,tobeingexclusionsonwater,whichiswhatGeraldPollack's,BodyofResearchisabout.

HansEng: Yes.

DaveAsprey: He'sreferencedinHeadstrong.He'sbeenontheshow,beenonthestage.Thisisoneofthepreeminentdiscoveriesinbiologyinthelast10yearsorsomething.

HansEng: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: I'mblownawaybyit.


DaveAsprey: So,youfiguredoutthesignalthoughthat'scausingthis,comesfromfreeradicals.So,ifyouhavenofreeradicals,wehavenotstructuredwater,wehavenotstructured,wecan'trepairourproteins,andwecan'tmakeenergy.

HansEng: Right.

DaveAsprey: Okay,andIdidn'twriteinHeadstrongatallaboutproteinrepairotherthanthatmitochondrionprovideenergyforit,andfranklyIdidn'tknowyouneededstructuredwatertoproperlyfoldproteinsinyourbody.Andweknowfromthisinterviewifyouhavedamagedproteins,orproteinsthataremisfolded,thenthey'renon-functionalproteins.


DaveAsprey: Therefore,yourbodydoesn'tworkaswellasitshouldwork.Therefore,you'regettingolder.

HansEng: Yes.

DaveAsprey: IfyouhaveallproteinsthatdowhattheyaredesignedbyyourDNAtodo,andthey'reproperlypoweredthewaythemitochondrialDNAdesignsthemitochondriatopowerthemtodo,andtheenvironmentssetupright,theoretically,weouttobeabletostayyoungforaslongtime.

HansEng: Mm-hmm(affirmative).Ifyouarealwaysabletorepairthedamage,youwillstayaliveforalong,longtime.

DaveAsprey: Okay.So,for10years,you'vebeenworkingonsomehardware,likeasdevicethatdoesthis.Howdoesthisthingwork?ThisistheNanoVithatImentionedatthebeginning.Okay,soweunderstandthenatureoftheproblemthat'shappeninginallofourbodies.

HansEng: Mm-hmm(affirmative).Mm-hmm(affirmative).

DaveAsprey: Actually,beforeweeventalkaboutwhatyourstuffdoes,whatisMotherNature'ssolutiontothis?Whatwouldwedoifwelivedincaveorforestsorsomethinglikethat?Howwouldourbodiesnaturallyapproachsolvingthisproteinproblem?

HansEng: Yeah.Mostoftheenergythatisabsorbedbythewaterfordoingtheproteinfoldingthingisproducedbyfreeradicals,bytheexcitedoxygenatominourcells.


HansEng: So,wearegeneratingmostofthisneededenergyinourbodygenerally.

DaveAsprey: Okay,andsothisisenergythatwe'regeneratingthatstructuresthewaterasweneedittobestructuredsowecanbuildrheproteins.

HansEng: Yes.Yes.

DaveAsprey: Yousaymostofit.

HansEng: Mostofit.

DaveAsprey: Whatabouttherest?

HansEng: Therestiswhyweareaging.Youcannotkeepup.

DaveAsprey: Shouldn'tIjustlayoutinthesunandgetsomemorefarinfrared?Seriousquestion.

HansEng: Theproblemislikeasitwasmentioned,waterhasahighabsorptioncapacityfortheelectromagneticbase.Thesunisemittingtheelectromagneticwave,butbecausetheatmosphere'sabsorbingit,wearenotgettingverymuchstuff.

DaveAsprey: Becauseofthewatervaporandtheionostreamandallofthat.

HansEng: Thewatervaporabsorbsit.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: Onlyinacertainsituation,nowatervaporinthesky,highsun,itcouldbepossiblethatbesidetherightsourceofwatervaporthen,thesunwouldhavethepossibilitytoinfluencethewatervapor.

DaveAsprey: So,weshouldallmovetohighdeserts.

HansEng: Highdesertswouldbe,withdryair,agoodplace.

DaveAsprey: That'swhereIgrewup.Imissthat.IliveinarainforestonVancouverIsland.You'reaSeattleguy.So,allright.But,bytheway,youhaveatan.YouliveinSeattle.Whatareyoudoing?

HansEng: IjustcamebackfromscientificcongressinChina.

DaveAsprey: Youcheated.Okay.

HansEng: Theyhavegoodweather.Yeah,theexposureinourlifetothisspecificelectromagneticwavelengthisverydifficultbecausewaterisalwaysabsorbingit.Asmorewaterisaroundyou,wehavevapor,wehavehumidityaswater'sbeingabsorbed.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: So,someoftheeffectshavetocometogetherforassistingwithtechnologytherepairprocess.Thewatervessels,watermoleculeshavetobesmallsothatthevolumehasabigsurface.Becausewesaidtheorderedwaterisonlyhappenedonthesurface.Youcannotorderthewaterinabucketofwater.


HansEng: Itisonlyorderedonthesurface.So,forhavingthemostoutofit,weneedsmallwatervessels.Thatiswhyweusehumidity,littledroplets,theairflowforourtechnology.

DaveAsprey: Okay.So,intheNanoVi,whatyou'redoingisyou'remakingawatervapor,andjustsothatyouguysknow,forthepastprobablysixoreightmonths,I'vehadthislittledeviceonmydesk,andyoumighthaveseenitinacoupleofthevideosofBulletproofLabshereatmyhouseandthisisprobablyamilliondollarfacility.EverythingIcanfindthat'sgoingtomakemelivelonger,I'mwillingtotryit.ThisathingwhereIsitthere.I'mdoingemail,ormorelikelyI'mdoingneurofeedback,butI'mbreathingwatervaporandyouguysdosomethinginsidethemachinetothewatervaporsothere'satangibledifferenceinhowyoufeelafter,afteryoudoit.You'reusingthis1,200nanometer,orgiveortakeinsomeotherstuffinthere,inordertostructurethewater,andthenyoubreathethewater.But,Ialsohaveastructuredwaterdrinkingmachine.Whydon'tIjustdrinkstructuredwater?What'sthedifference?

HansEng: It'satthesurfaceistheimportantthing.

DaveAsprey: Okay.So,thesurfaceareaofwatervaporisthousandsortensofthousandsgreater-

HansEng: Farbigger.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: Itisfarbiggerthantheorderprocessisnotstayingforeverinthewater.

DaveAsprey: So,itlosesitquickly.

HansEng: So,youcannotbottlethoseorderedwater.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

HansEng: It'saphysicalprocess,thesamethinglikebottlinghightemperatureeater.

DaveAsprey: Bottlinghotwater.

HansEng: Itdimsout.So,thesamethingishappeningwiththiskindofenergy,energeticstate.Itwilldimout.

DaveAsprey: Whataboutcarbonatedwater?Doesn'tthathavemoresurfacearea,becauseeverybubblehasmoresurfacearea?

HansEng: Thatisveryright.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: Thatiscorrect.Whenyouhaveitcarbonated.So,themomentyouopenandshaleabottle,youhaveatoofsurface.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: But,whenyouhaveitopenforawhile,thenthesurfaceisprettymuchthesame,becausetherearenoadditionalbubblesinthere.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: Maybewithchampagne.So,wehavetogotothehighquality-

DaveAsprey: Orbeer.Itsoundsvery-

HansEng: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Okay.Ihearyou.

HansEng: Yeah.Mm-hmm(affirmative).Yeah.Andtheotherthingwiththeenergytransferthatisaverycomplicated...Theadditionalthingsiswhenyouemitthe1,200nanometerstowater,sothatthewaterisabsorbingitandthenleadstospecialorderingonthesurface,therearealotoflayersofprotein,ofmoleculeswheretheenergyhastobetransferred.

DaveAsprey: Insidethewatervaporitself.

HansEng: Insidethewater,orincidentally,insidethewater.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: So,ifyouhaveaglassofwater,thetransferlengthisfarbiggerthanyouhaveinalittledropletinvapor.

DaveAsprey: So,youcan'tsend1,200nanometersdeepenoughintowaterbecausejustonelayerwillblockitandthentherestofthewaterdoesn'tgetanystructuring.

HansEng: Right.Youwilllosealotoftheorderedwater.

DaveAsprey: Okay.But,withvapor,that'snotanissuebecausethemoleculesarebouncingaroundessentially.

HansEng: Yeah,andtheytransfer...Whenyouhavetwodrop[lets,onehasanorderedsurface,theotheronehasnoorderedsurface.Andthemomenttheytouchtogethertheydistributethiskindofenergylevel.Theybalancethemout.

DaveAsprey: Okay.So,thenwiththeNanoVi,I'msittingthereandIlookreallycool.I'mprobablywearingmytruedarkglasses,youknowtheredglasses.I'vegotelectrodesonmyhead,andI'vegotthislittlehosethinginfrontofmeblowingwatervaporintomyface.I'mtellingyouthisishowyougetdates,justsowe'reallclearinit.Anyway,youdothatandwhatarethe...Like,whataretheeffects

biologicallyofbreathingstructuredwater,whichisawayofgettingitthatyouwon'tgetifyoudrinkit.Bytheway,Ialsodrinkstructured,butit'snotthesameeffect.Youcanfeelthedifference.

HansEng: Yeah,whenyouseeourmaterial,wewouldnotrefertostructuredwater.Structuredwaterhas[crosstalk00:49:24].

DaveAsprey: Veryeasyeater,yeah.Okay.

HansEng: Otherthingsintheexclusionzone.

DaveAsprey: Right.

HansEng: Easyorderedwaterthatisakindofsay,stateofwaterthathasadifferentotherdescriptionotherthantheliterature.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: So,thathelpstounderstandwhat[crosstalk00:49:38].

DaveAsprey: So,easywaterversusstructuresandfairpoint.Okay.

HansEng: Yeah,ororderedwater.

DaveAsprey: Ordered.Youpreferorderedor[crosstalk00:49:43].

HansEng: Orderedwater,yeah,becausemostof...Youfindalotof...WhenyouGoogle,whenyougottoWikipediaaboutproteinfolding,thatsincedecadestheimportanceoforderedwater.

DaveAsprey: Orderedwater,okay,gotit.Andit'sannoyingbecausethere's...AndI'mnotsayingitisn'tthecase,butifyouprayoveryourwaterandyouwaveacrystaloverit,it'sgoingtosomehowabsorbthings.Whoknows?Waterisa...Wedon'tknowmuchaboutwaterasfarasIcantell.I'mnotsayingitisn'tthecase.I'mjustsayingthatit'snotprovablegivenwhatwehavetoday.So,ittendstocastdoubtonhardscienceaboutwaterchemistry,whichiswhatyou'redoing.So,orderedwaterisanon-charged...Well,ifthat'sright,isanon-judgmentaltermforthisstuffthatscientistsunderstandhasaspecificphysicsmeaning.

HansEng: Yes,anditisalsoameasurablething.

DaveAsprey: Yeah,thereyougo.

HansEng: Ourtechnologyproduceswithameasuredandconfirmedelectromagneticbioidentical[inaudible]-

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: ...isaffectingthewatervaporanditisalsomeasurableandwasmeasuredataninstituteinItalythattheproductthatiscomingoutofthedeviceisactuallyordered,oreasywatervapor.

DaveAsprey: Okay,andit'sbioidenticalbecauseit'sexactlythesameorderingofwaterthatourcellsdousingtheirenergy,butwe'renotusingcellsenergy.We'reusingamachinetodoitandaddittothebody.So,it'sanadditivesystemthat'sbioidentical.

HansEng: Right.Yes.Yeah.


HansEng: Bioidentical,theproteinitselfthatisbeingimpacteddoesn'tcarewheretheenergywasemitted,ifitwasaspecialactivatedreactiveoxygenspeciesinthecell,orifitwasourpatentedtechnologiesthatemittedthisenergy,theproteindoesn'tcare.Itwilldowhenitissurroundedwiththelayersofoxygen.

DaveAsprey: Okay.So,ifsomeonebreathesthisorderedwateroutoftheNanoVionaregularbasis,oronaonetimebasis...Youguyshavedonesomestudies.


DaveAsprey: Whathappensthat'smeasurableinthebody?

HansEng: Yeah.Measurable,itiswithanykindofdiagnosistechnologythatcanmeasureproteinfunction.Theyareverysimplytechnologiesoutthere,likethereareoxygensaturation-


HansEng: ...thatmeasuresbasicallythefunctionofdifferentproteinsdowntothehemoglobin.

DaveAsprey: So,oxygensaturationgoesup.

HansEng: Oxygensaturationfoesupifitwaslowbeforehand.

DaveAsprey: Ifitwaslow,allright.

HansEng: Yeah,you'renotmakingasupermanoutofyou.Weareonlytryingtoinstallthegeneral[crosstalk].

DaveAsprey: So,youcanaddresspseudohypoxia,whichissomethingthathappenswhenyourmitochondriasdon'tworkverywell.Youbasicallyhavealackofoxygenevenifyou'rebreathing.Thatwouldbesomethingthatwouldbeaddressedbybreathingorderedwater.

HansEng: Yeah,there'salsocalledarespirationchainfrominhalingtheoxygentotheexchangeoncellularlevel,thatisaffectingalotofproteins,notonlythehemoglobin,thenontothecellularlevel,youhavethemetabolizationoftheoxygeninthecellbytheATP,whichisaproteincontrolledprocessagain.So,Alotofpeoplewhodon'thaveenoughcellenergy,havealotofreasonswhytheydon'tproduceenoughenergy.Eitherthemitochondriaisnotabletoproduceit,whethertheimportantbuildingblockslikeoxygenisnotavailablebecauseitwasnottransported.Itwasnotreleased.Itwasnotuptakingfromthelungtissuelevel.Therearesomanythingswheretheproteinsareinvolved.

DaveAsprey: Right.Well,whatyoujustmentionedthereisthecorethesisforHeadstrong.48%ofpeopleunderage40,haveearlyonsetmitochondrialdysfunctionandeveryoneoverage40hasit,wejustcallitaging.So,ifyourmitochondriaaren'tworkingthatwell,oneofthemanywaysyoucanaddressthis,isbybreathingexclusionsonwaterbecauseyou'regettingsomuchmore,muchhigherdoseofitthanyoucangetfromdrinkingitandyou'restillcountingonyourbodytomakeexclusionsonwateroryouwoulddieifyoucouldn'tdothat.But,justbyboostingthatamountup,you'regivingyourbodymoreofwhatitneedstobeabletodoproteinrepair,whichwouldbeacoreintoagingstrategy.

HansEng: Thatwasaverygoodsummary.

DaveAsprey: Allright.Gooddeal.So,youguyslistening,thisisprettydeepsciencewe'regettingintohere.Headstrongisabouthowdoyougetmoreenergyinbecauseyoufeelitinyourbrainfirst,andnowwe'resayingwell,whatareyougoingtodowiththatenergy?Well,oneofthethingsyouwanttodowiththatenergyisrepairthebody,notjustthinkfasterandallofthat.So,we'retalkingaboutmorerapidrepair.WhataboutthingslikeVO2Max,likeforathleticperformance?DoesVO2Maxchangeifyou'redoingthisregularly?

HansEng: IfVO2Maxisinyourcaseaproteincontrolledbarrierthatyouwouldliketogetup,yes,wecanhaveimprovementinthisthing.

DaveAsprey: Okay,butthatmightbeinsomeonewhodoesn'thavegoodVO2Maxbecausethey'vebeenexposedtoabiotoxinorbecausethey'reoldor-

HansEng: Right.Yeah.

DaveAsprey: But,ifit'sasuperathlete,what'sgoingtohappeninasuperathlete?

HansEng: Andwehavealotofathletesthatareusingourtechnology.Whenyoutrainyourbody,youtrainandyouenhanceacertainkindofprocessesveryoften.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: Thatiswhattrainingisonthefirstviewpoint.Modern,highendathletesarelookingforfarmore[inaudible]toregeneratefaster,becauseiftheytrainthey

understandthattheydamage,there'saccumulatingdamage.Theylosttheabilitytotrain,andthenyoulosetheVO2Max,andallthosethings.So,theyarenowfocusedonhowcanIrepairthedamagethatIintroducedbymytraining?

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: So,fasterrepairenablesthemtotrainbetter.

DaveAsprey: So,youcandomoretraining,moreheavilyandoneofthethingsI'vestressedsincethebeginningofBulletproofisyouneedtorecoverlikeabeast,nottrainlikeabeast.

HansEng: Right.

DaveAsprey: Andwhatyou'retalkingabouthereisyoucantrainmoreheavilybecauseyoucanrecovermoreheavilybecauseyou'reusingatechnologytoaddenergytothesystem.

HansEng: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Okay.Thatmakesalotofsense.Andwhatotherquantifiableeffects...IknowthatIsawastudywhenIwasdoingresearchbeforeIgotthedeviceonDNAdoublestrandbreaks,whatdidyouguysfindthere?

HansEng: TheDNAisinanormalperson,andtheaverageperson,non-athleticperson,isgettingdamagedaround150,000timesperdaybyfreeradicals.

DaveAsprey: Inasinglecellorthroughoutthebody?

HansEng: Inasinglecell.

DaveAsprey: So,allright.

HansEng: That'salotofdamage.Weknowthattheproteins,manyenzymes,differentenzymesareresponsibletorepairthisasfastaspossible.So,that'sthenextblueprintwherethethatcomeoutoftheDNAforthenextgenerationofproteinsareflawless.So,byhavingtheproteinsrefoldingfaster,whichIexposedtothedamage-


HansEng: ...theycanfasterexecutetherepairontheDNA.

DaveAsprey: Interesting.

HansEng: So,withthefasterDNArepair,youarefarclosertoyourgoalsofgettingolder,stayinghealthy,old,andperformhigher.

DaveAsprey: So,thisisinteresting.I'macomputerscienceguybytraining,andtherearealotofdevelopersandtechnologistswholistentotheshow.Ifyou'reonthetechsideofthings,there'ssomethingcallederrorcorrectingcodeinmemory,andit'sprobablyinyouriPhonetoday.Andit'sfascinatingbecauseinachip,youcanlosedataandthiswasabigprobleminthefirst30,40yearsofcomputingwheresuddenlythingsjustwouldn'tworkbecauseoneelectronwouldgotothewrongplace.So,eventuallywefoundawayelectronically,averyelegantway,inordertomakesurethatwe'reconstantlyrecheckingwhat'sinthememorysothatifweloseanelectron,wecancomputationallyreinsertthat.


DaveAsprey: What'sgoingoninourbodiesisordersofmagnitudemoreelegant,becauselikeyou'resaying,itwas150,000...Wasitpersecond,perday?

HansEng: Perday.

DaveAsprey: 150,000hitstothecoreinstructionsforhowyourbodymakesitshardware,andifwedon'thavearobustsystemtorepairthat,whatweendupwithismutations,right?

HansEng: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Andso,mutationsareaprobleminthattheycansometimesleadtocancer,andsometimesmaybeotherthings.But,ideally,thebodyjusteffortlesslyrepairsthesethings.Theproblemisthattheamountofeffortrequiredtorepairthesethingsisveryhighinthefaceofwedon'tgetenoughsleep,we'reexposedtobadqualityjunklight.We'reexposedtoEMF's.Wehavetoomuchstress.Weexercisetoomuch.Weeatjunkfood.Wedoallsortsofbadthingsthatwereally,thatthissystemwasn'tdesignedtoaccountforandthiscouldbeaccountingforsomeofthechronicdiseasesofaging.So,oneofthemanypiecesofmyanti-agingstrategyiswhenI'mdoingsomethingelse,Idon'tmindspending15minutesbreathingwatervaporbecauseIcandothat-

HansEng: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Itdoesn'ttakeawaytimefromsomethingelse,whichisanotherthing,There'slotsofstuffyoucando.Youspend12hoursadayrecovering.


DaveAsprey: Youdidn'tspend12hourswithyourkids.Youdidn'tspenditworking.Youjust...It'snotagoodreturnoninvestment.

HansEng: Yeah.Yeah.Thatisaotherthing.Wearenotonlyfocusedonhowisthebiophysicalprocessworking?Itisalsohowcanyouimplementitinyourdailylife.Itisnotsomethingyouhavetodoforhoursperday.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

HansEng: Itisdesignedthatyouuseitincombinationwithalotofotherthings.Itcouldbeastandalonetreatmentinafacility.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

HansEng: Itcouldbedonewhileyouwereworkingatyourdesk.So,therearealotofdifferentpossibilitiesthatitdoesn'ttakemoretime,anytimeoutof.

DaveAsprey: Okay,andI'llshowyouguysmysetup,justsoyoucanseewhatthisislike.Infact,we'regoingtohaveRowenacomeon,who'stheotherco-founderofthecompanywhoworkswithcliniciansandathletesandtrainers,andallthat,likehowpeopleusethisunusual,andnotwell-knowntoday,wayofbasicallymakingthebodydowhatitdoesbetter.So,isthereanythingelsethatweshouldsharewithlistenersaboutjustthescienceofproteinrepair,eitherinDNAorintherestofthebody?

HansEng: Wehavealotofinformationonourwebsite.

DaveAsprey: Okay.Ihaven'tevenmentionedthewebsite,butIdon'thaveitinmyshownotes.Whatisyourwebsite?

HansEng: Www.eng3corp.com.

DaveAsprey: Eng3.corp.com,andyoucantellthatit'shighlyoptimizedforsearchengineoptimization,easytofind,okay,maybenot.But,eng3corp.com.Ut,I'llexplainwhatthisstuffisandhowitworksandifyougottobulletporoof.com/YouTube,youjustwatchtheendofthevideo.I'llshowyouthesetupandallthatstuff.AndbeforeRowenacomeson,thisisn'tcheaptechnology.Itgoers...Itstartsat$5,000andgoesuptoabout$13,000sopyou'retypically...Inordertodothis,ifyou'reaproathleteorsomethinglikethat,orabillionaireanti-agingguy,fine.But,fortheaveragelistener,thisissomethingthatyouwouldfindatyourtrainer'soffice,atyourdoctor'sofficeorsomethinglikethat.

So,youcangototheinterestingwebsiteandfindsomeoneionyourneighborhood,orjustgotowhereveryounormallygoforthiskindofstuffandsay,"Iwouldliketodothat.Doyouhavethis?”Andthisisasortofthing.Therearealotofpeoplewhorunfacilities,wholistentothisaswell.It'sthesortofthingthat,Ithink,hasaplacewhere,intheworkplace,whenweopenthenewBulletproofofficesthatwe'reworkingonrightnow,Iwillputoneofthesethere,soemployeescanusethat.Ifyou'refeelingalittleodd,youcandothat.

HansEng: Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.Mm-hmm(affirmative).

DaveAsprey: So,it'sanadditivetechnology.Iwouldjustsayitlikethat.But,itisn'tsomethingthatyounecessarilyhavetobuyforyourself.But,it'ssomethingthatyoucan

sharewithmanyotherpeople.Partofthegoalofbiohackingforme,andevendoingthisshowandwritingisIwantpeopletoknowaboutthesetechnologiesandmyassumptionisthatwhenthere'shighdemandandovertime,thattheavailabilityandcostwilldropprecipitouslysothisbecomessomethinglikeeveryonehasovertime.

HansEng: Yeah.Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Andso,Italkaboutclinicalgradetechnologieslikethisonenow-


DaveAsprey: ...becauseI'massumingthat20yearsnow,it'llbebuiltintomyiPhone.

HansEng: Yeah.Yeah.Andyoumentionedtheexposurethatalotofpeoplecanusethisperday.


HansEng: LikeIsaid,incorporateawarenessenvironment,forexample,companiesareinstallingthistohaveaccessforemployees.Itdoesn'tmatterwhatageorwhathealthstatetheyarein,itworksforthem.

DaveAsprey: It'sprettyeasytobreatheinwatervapor.

HansEng: Andwithextremelylonglifetimethecostpertreatmentissolow-

DaveAsprey: It'spennies,yeah.

HansEng: ...itissolowthatitisavery,veryaffordableatthisviewpoint.

DaveAsprey: Infact,ifyoulookonmyInstagram,it'sDave.Asprey,andyeah,youshouldfollowme.IdoallsortsofweirdstuffonInstagramthat'snotonFacebook.There'sapictureofmyparentsuphere,andthey'reintheir70'sandmydad'sgotthe[inaudible01:02:47].He'sactuallybreathingfromtheNanoVi.So,youcandefinitely...Hehadaheartattack10plusyearsago,andallthatstuff,andisworkingonstayingstrong.So,it'sfun.Hewasabletouseit.So,itisn'tanage-relatedthing.

Well,IhaveaquestionforyoubeforewehaveRowenaontotalkaboutwhathappenswithathletesinananti-agingprocessandthingslikethat.Ifsomeonecametoyoutomorrow,andtheysaid,IwanttoperformbetterateverythingIdoasahumanbeing,sonotjustathleticperformanceorbusinessorwhatever,whatarethethreemostimportantpiecesofadviceyou'dhaveforthem?Itdoesn'thavetobeanythingaboutbiophysicsandaboutyourfield,butitcanbe.So,themostimportantpiercesofadvice,Iwanttokickmoreassateverything.WhatdoIneedtoknow?

HansEng: Yeah.Takecarethatyouhavetherightinputofthebuildingblocksforyourlife.

DaveAsprey: Eastgoodstuff.

HansEng: Eatgoodstuff.


HansEng: Avoidexposure,environmentalexposurethatdamagesthebuildingblocks.

DaveAsprey: Dolessofwhatmakesyouweak.Ilikethat.

HansEng: Yeah,thatcouldbeverystrongradiationandthosethings.

DaveAsprey: Okay.Suchasstopsniffinguraniumdust.

HansEng: Uraniumdustisoneofthem.Andthenextthingisimproveyourrepairandregenerationcapacity.

DaveAsprey: Well,you'redefinitelyabiohackerwithlist.Bam.InanutshellthatwouldbetheentiresetofthingsI'mdoingtolivealongtime.Hans,thankyouforcomingonandyou'rewithEngThreeandwe'regoingtohaveyourotherco-founder,RowenaGates,comeonandjusttalkaboutwhatwe'reseeinginathletesandthingslikethat.So,thankyou.

HansEng: Okay.Thankyouverymuch,Dave.

DaveAsprey: AssortofparttwoofthisepisodeofBulletproofRadio,I'veaskedRowenaGates,who'saco-founderofEngThree,whichisalsoproducedEngThree,tocomeonandtalkaboutjusttheclinicalexperiencesofwhat'sbeenhappeningwiththisstuff,andRowenawelcometotheshow.

RowenaGates: Thankyou.

DaveAsprey: You'vebeenworkingfor10yearsonthiskindoftechnology-

RowenaGates: Yep.

DaveAsprey: ...withHans,andit'soneofthosethingsthatIthinkmostpeoplehaveneverheardof,butitisbackedbysomerealseriousscience.

RowenaGates: So,that'snotaverygoodreflectiononme,butit'soneofthosethings-

DaveAsprey: It'sjustthenatureofinnovation,right.

RowenaGates: It'spercolatingupanditgetsrolling,yep.

DaveAsprey: Ifyougobackfiveyearsago,howmanypeoplehadheardof[Badcoin],andnowit'salltherage.So,thenatureofnewtechnologiesintroductions,it'scominginfaster,butthere'sanincubationperiodwherepeopleareworkinginagaragesomewherefiguringoutcorebiological-

RowenaGates: Yep.

DaveAsprey: ...orotherprocesses,andthenitbecomescommercialized,andthenitcomesinatthehighlevelforproathletesandhighendracehorsesandspecialforcesathletes.

RowenaGates: Mm-hmm(affirmative).

DaveAsprey: Andthenitcomesintoclinicalpeopledyingandstufflikeandnewclinicaltrialsandeventuallyit'sbuiltintoyouriPhone.Thatwastheflowthrough.

RowenaGates: Exactly.

DaveAsprey: Anditmayevenenteryourandroidifitdoesn'tcatchonfire.I'mjustkidding.Let'stalkaboutwhat'shappenedoverthepastcoupleofyearsasyou'vestartedrollingthesethingsouttotrainingfacilitiesandthingslikethat.What'satypicaluser?

RowenaGates: Well,ourusersareveryoftencliniciansorhealthpractitioners,trainers,orpeopleveryinterestedinimprovingphysicalandmentalperformance,andtheycanbeacrossthespectrum.Theycanbepeopledealingwithillnessordiseasewithpreventionorwithperformance,andsoit'sreallyallofthoseareas.Alotofourexperienceishelpingpeopleregaintheirhealth,peoplethathavealreadylostfunctionandareregainingit.

DaveAsprey: So,thiswouldhavebeensomethingthatwouldhavebeenreallyapplicableforme20yearsagowhenIstartedthis.300pounds,pre-diabetic,allsortsofproblems.Infact,oneofthetechnologiesthatmadeahugedifferenceformewasozonetherapy-

RowenaGates: Yes.

DaveAsprey: ...whereI'mintroducingfreeradicalsintothebodytotriggercellhealing.

RowenaGates: Right.

DaveAsprey: Thisisnotintroducingfreeradicals,butthisisessentiallytheresultoffreeradicals,isthattheygeneratethisorderedwaterandthenthat...So,Ilikelygeneratedsomeorderedwatermyself.It'salittlebitmoreinconvenientandfranklydangeroustodoozonetherapy,versusbreathingwatervaporlikethis.

RowenaGates: Well,it'sinterestingbecauseit'ssocomplementary,andpeopledoozonetherapyincombinationwiththeNanoVi.

DaveAsprey: Oh,dothey?Atthesametime,oronebeforetheother?

RowenaGates: Ofcourse,because,andalsowithhyperbaricsateitheraNanoVisessionfollowingtheothertreatmentoreveninconjunctionwithozonetherapyatthesametimedependingonthetypeoftherapythey'redoing.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

RowenaGates: But,ozonetherapyalsocankillpathogens.

DaveAsprey: Oh,yeah.

RowenaGates: Anytimeyoudodetoxification,you'rereallycallingontheenergyreservesofthebodytotakecareofit.Andso,wheneverthere'sadetoxificationprocess,thenpeoplealsowillcombineNanoVitohelpimprovetheoveralloutcomeandnotbesomuchrestrainonthebody.

DaveAsprey: Okay.Ifthebody'susinglessenergytomakeorderedwaterbecauseitjustgotabigdoseoforderedwater,itfreesupsomeofthatenergytodoother,basicallyproteinthings,whichiswhatyouneedtodoifyou'resick.

RowenaGates: Right,thoseproteinsareclearingupthecarnagethatyoucreatebythedetoxification.

DaveAsprey: So,mostpeoplelisteningwhoarenothealthy,wouldbeworkingwithaphysician,alotoffunctionalmedicine,anti-agingkindofpeople.Thisiswhereyouwouldfindthisnaturalpaths,peoplelikethat.

RowenaGates: Yes.

DaveAsprey: You'reunlikelytofindthisatyourlocalBlueCross/BlueShieldhospitalkindofanenvironment,right?

RowenaGates: Correct.Itdoesn'thavebillingcodes,sowe'renotinastandardhospital.

DaveAsprey: Well,thatmeansitworks,right?

RowenaGates: But,theintegratedphysicians,that'stheplacetolookforitbecausetheyappreciate,firstofall,whatyou'dspokenwithHansaboutearlier.Theyappreciatebiophysics.It'snotpurelybiochemistry,whichhasbeentheAmericantakeonthings.It'smorepharmaceuticalandIthinktheGermantakeandwell,ourapproachcertainlyistodrawontheenergysideofitandthebiophysics,notjustbiochemistry.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

RowenaGates: It'sintegrativephysiciansthatarethinkingalongthoselines.

DaveAsprey: So,onthatsideofthings,anytimeyou'remakingmitochondriaworkbetterorrepairworkbetter,broadimprovementsacross-

RowenaGates: Right.

DaveAsprey: ...everythingratherthantreatingaspecificthing.InHeadstrong,Ibasically...Everythingyoucanfindthathappensfromanacuteinjurytoachronicdegenerativeillness,they'reallmitochondrialandthey'reallenergeticinorigin.Thisisoneofthewaysyoucanpumpuptheenergeticsystem,whichiswhyIhaveoneinmylabs,right?Whatabouthighperformancethough?So,let'ssaythatwegetanenduranceathlete-

RowenaGates: Well,thosearerelated-

DaveAsprey: Okay.

RowenaGates: ...becauselikewithanelectromyocardiogram,we'vehadaclinicianshowtheimprovementwiththeuseofNanoVi,andit'sshowingmitochondrialfunctionbecausewhentheheartworksbetter,it'sareflectionofhowwellthemitochondriaareworking.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

RowenaGates: Andthat'swhatyouneedfor...Itdoesn'tmatterifyou'reanathleteorapersonrecoveringfromanillness,thatmitochondrialfunctionisabsolutelykeyandsoforathletes,that'swheretheygetthefastrepairandtheygainanedge,anditcanbequiteprofound.

DaveAsprey: Isthereanathleteyoucannamethatwe'veheardofwho'susingthis?

RowenaGates: Okay.I'llcalloutMattBoyd,who'sastartingpitcherfortheDetroitTigers,andalsooneofthenicestpeopleyou'llevermeet.Andhe'sbeenusingitforsometime,andhe'syoung,buthe's...Thepitchersaredoingalotinashortperiodoftime,alotofstrain,wearandtear,andtherecoveryisahugefactorforthem.

DaveAsprey: So,howwouldheorapitcherorsomeoneuseit,afteragame,beforeagame?

RowenaGates: Afterallthetraining,and-

DaveAsprey: So,aftertrainingeachtime-

RowenaGates: Andthenaftergamesbecausethat...Ifyoucanrecoveryourarmfaster,youcanpitchbetter.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

RowenaGates: Youcan...You'reastrongerathleteandsothat'sagoodexample.Matt'sagoodexample.

DaveAsprey: Okay.Andwhatabout...Iguessthat'smoreofastrengthandthere'salotofligamentsstrainandthingslikethat.Whataboutsaysomeonewhowantstobeanendurancecyclist?

RowenaGates: Well,endurancesortsare...Everyenduranceathleteshouldusethis.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

RowenaGates: Andeveryironman...AndreRossoisprobablythebiggestnamepersonthatyouwouldn'thaveheardthatusesit,buthe'sdonethedecaultramarathon.Yeah,DECAultra-marathon.So,that'stheequivalentof10Ironmenraces,tenconsecutivedays.

DaveAsprey: Isthisguytheworld’sworstmasochistorwhat?

RowenaGates: It'sunbelievabletome.It'sunbelievable.Andso,it'sa...It'saposterchildforNanoVi,butontheotherhandit'slike,butthat'snot...Thatdoesn'tsoundlikeagoodthingtobedoing.

DaveAsprey: It'sprobablynotaneffectiveanti-agingstrategytodothat[crosstalk01:11:55].

RowenaGates: Correct.But,he'softheextremeathletes,hewouldbetheextremeoftheextreme.

DaveAsprey: Iadmirethestrengthandwillpowerthatittakestodothat.But,wow.

RowenaGates: But,veryironmandistanceathlete,thosekindsofpeople...It'salotofwearandtear.It'salotofstressandthepersonwhofirstgotmeinterestedinthisisanintegratedphysicianwhosaid,"Well,Iuseitinmypracticebutwhereit'sreallyamazingisbecauseItrainforIronmanCanada,andIneedittorecoverfasterandfeelbetter."

DaveAsprey: Okay.

RowenaGates: Andweactuallyhaveavideofromhimonourwebsitebecausehereallypushedtogoafter...Youneedtostarttalkingtoathletes.

DaveAsprey: Itseemslikealotofcrossfitterswouldusethisaswell.Areyouseeingalotofthemuseit?It'sthatthey'rehittingiteverydayandtheyneedtorecoverfaster.

RowenaGates: Right.Right,andthey'rereallydoingsomething,dependingonhowtheytrain,someofthemare...It'sprettyhardonthem,andsowedohavemoreofthat

especiallyatonestudiodowninOregon.Butit'snotabroadsectorforusthatIknowif.

DaveAsprey: Itseemslikejustanaturalthingifyou'rerunningacrossfitbox,ifyouhaveoneofthese,doyourworkoutanddosomeextrarecovery.Ijustthoughtofthat,butit's-

RowenaGates: Couldyourepeatthat?Everycrossfitgymshouldhavethis.

DaveAsprey: Anytimethatyou'redoingphysicaltraining,right,andspeedingrecoveryissomethingI'vejustbeen...It'samantrasincetheverybeginningofBulletproofRadio.It'slike,"Look,recoveryisthetrick.Stimulatingyourbodytocausedamageisnotthathardtodo.Recoveringeffectivelysoyougetstrongerishardtodo"

RowenaGates: Exactly.

DaveAsprey: Thisis,Ithink,aneffectivetechnologywithsomerealsciencebehindit.

RowenaGates: Exactly,andoneofthegoodthingsaboutguyslikecrossfitter,anyathletethatreallydepletesthemselves,liketheygoallout,thenit'smorenoticeablebecausetheyknowthatthey'regoingtofeelterriblethenextday,andsoon.So,thenwhenyouusetheNanoVi,it'sveryclearlydifferentandI'vehadpeoplesay,"Oh,IfeelcheatedbecauseIwasn'tsufferingthenextday,"thatkindofthing.It'slike,"Ididn'tfeellikeIworkedoutbutIknowIdid."

DaveAsprey: Whataboutjetlagandsortofthecorporateathlete.IuseitwhenIgetbackfromalongtrip.But,Ialsouseeverythingelse.

RowenaGates: Youdon'ttakeitwithyou?

DaveAsprey: It'snotreallythatcarry-onsized,notwitheverythingelseIcarryon.

RowenaGates: Yeah.Right.

DaveAsprey: Ifitwasthesizeofthis-

RowenaGates: It'sgreatforjetlagandit'sgreatforhangoversandit'sbecausebothofthemarerepairprocesses.It'sallaboutrepairandalsoanythingthataffectstheautonomicnervoussystem,rebalancing,gettingbackintohomeostasis,thosehormonefunctions,melatonin,allthosethingsarethebodyrebalancing.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

RowenaGates: Ifyouhelpitwiththeautonomicnervoussystem,whichisalwaysmeasurable,it'seasytoshowwiththedevice,thenyouhelpwithsomethinglikejetlagandalsootherconditionsthat-

DaveAsprey: So,thiswouldbe...Themainusecaseswouldbeexcessivelifestress,whichisjetlagandtravelandallthatsortofstuff.Hangovers,whichisseriously-

RowenaGates: Attradeshows.

DaveAsprey: Yeah,tradeshowswouldbeagoodthing,andthenenduranceorstrengthtrainingjusttoberecoveredfromeitheroneofthose,duringtrainingormaybeafteragame.Then,wetalkedaboutmedicalstuff.Itseemslikeafterasurgicalrecoverywouldbeprettypowerful.

RowenaGates: Wehavedentistsandplasticsurgeonsthatwoulduseittohelptheirpatientshealfaster,recoverfaster.So,that'stheiruseofit.Ifyou...Foraplasticsurgeonoradentist,iftheycanreducetheswelling,bruising,andpainassociatedwiththesurgery,theygetabetteroutcome.Itcanbeprettybeneficialtothem.So,it'susedforthatandthenIthinkyoumentionedbeforewithHans,allthechronicillnessesandthere'sabignumberofhomeusersthatwilluseittohelpaddresswhatevercondition.

DaveAsprey: Iwouldimaginejusthavinglivingwithtoxinmold,IdidMoldEase:TheDocumentary.Ifyou'relisteningandyouhaven'tseenMOLDYTheMovie,modlymovie.com,guyslikeMarkHyman,andDanielAmenareinitandthisisoneofthingswhereIfeltgoodandthenImovedintoanewplaceorstartedworkinginamoldyplaceandIjustlostmyenergy.Yougetadirectmitochondrialinhibitionfromthesetoxinsandtorecoverfromthataddingmoreenergyintothesystem,formeitwasIusedlight,food,ketones,electricalstimulation,ozone,andthisisanothertechnologyIdidn'thavewhenIwasrecovering.

RowenaGates: Right.

DaveAsprey: But,ifIwasworkingonrecoveringnow,I'daddthattomystack,right?

RowenaGates: Perfectly.Yeah.Exactly,andmostimportantlygettingthetoxinsoutofyoursystem.

DaveAsprey: Well,yeah,youhavetodothewholemoldprotocolthingorlime-

RowenaGates: Yeah,whichcanbetaxingandsothat'salsowhereitwouldsupportthatwholeprocess.

DaveAsprey: Awesome.Well,IthinkthatansweredthevastmajorityofusecasequestionsIhadforyou.

RowenaGates: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: OnethingInoticed...Itsaysintheinstructions,"Warning.Itmaybereallyenergizing."I'mlike,Iuseenergyforsleep.I'maveryeffectivesleeper.So,ifI

increasemitochondrialfunctionbeforeIsleep,mysleepefficiencyscoresgoup.So,Ididn'tDr.Elanormywife,reallywhatwasgoingon.Isaid,"Hey,sithereandbreathethisthingfor20minutes."So,she'sawillingguineapigmostofthetime,sometimesalittlebitunwilling.But,anyway,shebreathedthestuff,andshedidn'tsleepforfourhours.Andshe'slike,Ihaveallthisenergy.What'sgoingon.What'sgoingon?Andhowcommonisthat?

RowenaGates: It'srelativelycommonandit's...Usuallyifit'susedafteraboutfourorfiveintheafternoon-

DaveAsprey: Yeah,thiswouldhavebeenprobablylikeeight,ornine.

RowenaGates: Yeah,andthenpeoplefeelperkyandfresh,whichisverycommon.Theygetalittleclarityandtheyfeelalert.But,youdon'twantthatwhenyou'retryingtogotosleep.

DaveAsprey: Itdoesn'tbothermeatall.IguessImaybejustoneofthoseeffectivesleepers.Ialso...IwrotealmostallofHeadstrongbetween11p.m.andfourorfivea.m.I'mnaturallywiredtobewhatMichaelBruce,thePowerofWind,thesleepdoctor,whathewouldcallawolf,whichmeans15%ofthepopulationisgenericallynightowls.15%arethoseannoyingmorningpeople,andIjustliketomakefunofthembecausethey'vemadefunofmeforbeinganightowl.So,like,ha,ha.Anyway,But,Ididforespeciallythelasthalfofthebook,IhadtheNanoVibythen,soI'dactuallysitthereandI'dlikebreatheitatnightwhilewritingthebook.

RowenaGates: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: ...becauseI'mwearingtruedarkglassesbecauseI'vecontrolledthelightinginmyenvironment,Iwasn'tdamagingmycircadianrhythm,andI'dsleepandI'dbefineranditwouldallwork.

RowenaGates: Well,seeonceyougetoverthatinitialadjustmenttoit,itwillhelpwithsleep.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

RowenaGates: Infact,it'swidelyusedforsleep.

DaveAsprey: Oh,itis?Okay.

RowenaGates: Becauseit'sbalancingtheautonomicnervoussystem.So,thatsettlingeffecthelpspeoplesleepbetterandisverymeasurablethattheycansleepmoresoundly.So,onceyougetadjustedtoit,thenitcanbeagreattoolforactuallyinitiatingsleep.Somepeoplethatdon'tsleepwellwillwakeupanddoasessionatnightandgobacktosleep.

DaveAsprey: Now,I'mgoingtototally,probablypissyouoffrightnow,butIjustthoughtofthis.So,I'mjustgoingtotellpeopletodothiswhoarebiohackers.Ifyouhavesleepapnea,andyouhaveaCPAPmachine,here'swhatIwoulddo,okay?IwouldpokeaholeinthesideofthehoseandIwouldplugthewatervaporoutputfromtheNanoViintotheCPAPmachinesothatwhileI'mgettingtheCPAP,IwouldalsobegettingNanoViatnightandsinceyoualreadyhaveavacuumcleanersoundwhileyou'resleepingyoumightaswelldothis.DidIjustviolatesomeHIPAAthing?

RowenaGates: No,youjustdescribedatleastonedoctorandsomepeopleIknowthat-

DaveAsprey: Ijustthoughtofthat.Iwaslike,"I'msocool."Andthereyougo-

RowenaGates: No,onemedicaldoctortoldmethatandI'vehadotherpeople,sotheycanbeuseddefinitelyincombination.

DaveAsprey: InconjunctionwithCPAP.Youcouldalsojustputthe[inaudible01:20:07]onyournoseifyou'rewillingtobeallwiredupinyoursleep.Idon'thavesleepapneaandIprobablycouldsleepwiththenoise,butitseemslikeyou'dmovearoundenoughthatyouwouldn'tgetthewatervapordosetomatter.

RowenaGates: Yeah,thebestthingistoreclaimyourhealthsoyoudon'tneedtheotherinterventionsbecausethey'redisruptivetosleep.Theysaveyourlifeononehand,buttheycanbedisruptive.So,themoreyoucanreclaimyourhealth,yournaturalrhythms,allofthat,thebetter.

DaveAsprey: Thatsoundssoslowandoldschool.Isn'ttheremorewecandowhilewe'reasleep,becausethat'sfreetime?IfIcouldput50differentbiohackingtechnologiesonmybodyandsleepbetterandwakeupbetter-

RowenaGates: Youjustsaidyouweretheadvocateofrecovery,right?

DaveAsprey: Yeah,Iknow,but-

RowenaGates: That'swhenyourbodyrecovers.Ithastorepairthingsatnight.

DaveAsprey: Butshouldn'tIgiveitevenmorerepairjuiceatnight?That'swhatthisis.

RowenaGates: Peopledosleepwithitanduseitatnight,butit'susuallywhenthey'reillandtheyreallyneedmoretimeonthedevice.

DaveAsprey: Allright.Igotit.Andthenormaltimeonthedeviceislike15minutesontheheavydutyone,oruptoanhouronthelighterweightone.

RowenaGates: Correct.Correct.Andsoifpeopledoonesessionaday,thenifthey'rereallystrugglingwithachallengingconditionoranillness,theymightdoublethator

dothreeorfourtimesthenormalamountinwhichcasetheycanrunoutoftimeandthenthey'lluseitatnight.

DaveAsprey: IsthereanyreasonIshouldn'tjusthaveitrunningeighthoursadayonmydesk?

RowenaGates: Thereisnoreasonatallandthere'snopossibilitytooverdose.Thegainisbiophysical,notbiochemical.So,theonlythingthathappensismaybeyourbodydoesn'tneedanymoreofthatsignalandit'sactuallynothelpinganymore.But,itcouldneverhurt.

DaveAsprey: Allright.That'ssupercool.IrealizeIneveraskedyouthat.So,it'sagoodthingbecauseIsometimesoverdoafewtechnologies.

RowenaGates: That'sthebeauty...That'soneoftherealgloriesofthistechnologyisthatitdoesn'thavethepotentialforinteractions.

DaveAsprey: Okay.

RowenaGates: Itdoesn'thavethepotentialforharm.

DaveAsprey: Okay.That'shelpfulbecausethatmeansIdidn'tharmmyself.

RowenaGates: Becauseit'striggeringmechanismsinyourbodythatdon'thavethepotentialtodoharm-

DaveAsprey: Okay.Cool.

RowenaGates: ...ortointeractinanunknownorundesirableway.

DaveAsprey: Well,thanks,Rowena.Ithinknowweshouldendtheofficialepisode.

RowenaGates: Yes.

DaveAsprey: But,ifyou'regoingtotuneinonYouTube,bulletproof.com/YouTubetogethere,we'rejustgoingtotakethecameraoverandit'sgottobethecamerawithmymiconit,whichmeansthatcamera.I'mjusttellingElliottthat,andthenwe'regoingtojustturnthecameraaround.You'llseethestudioandyou'llseemysetup,nowI'vegotthissetup.That'sactuallyrightnexttomyneurofeedbackthinghere.So,walkonoverwithme.We'llcheckthatout.Inthemeantime,ifyou'reinterestedinlearningmoreaboutthis,youcanaskatyourlocal,whereverfacility...YoucangototheEngThree...It'seng3corp.com,properlypronouncedEngThree,butyoucanspellitEng,likeengineering3corp.comandthentheyhaveafindersortofthing,andIdon'thaveanaffiliatedealoranythinglikethat.ThisisareallycoolpieceoftechthatI'musingandIthinkthatit'sworthlookingatfromamitochondrialandasystemsrepair

perspectiveandyou'regoingtoseehowIdoit.So,walkwithmeovertothisandwe'llcheckitout.

Allright.Thisisit,andsoyouguysknow,thisscreenatnightiswaytoobright.It'sbluelightsoIactuallyoutblacktapeoverthegreenlightherebecausegreeninterruptscircadianrhythmorI'mwearingmytruedarks,andIusuallycoverthescreen,whichissomethingthatIwouldliketonothavetodo,andsinceHansishearingmesaythat,Ibetyouanythingthatthey'llhavearedlightiontheirsprettysoon,right.

So,allyoudoisyousithere,andyoudowhatyou'redoing.ItlookslikeIhaveamicrophoneinfrontofmeandI'llputmymicuptothis.Youhearthat?It'sbasicallyaverysoft,averysoftjustblowingofslightlymoistair,andyoujustsitandyoubreatheit,verysimpleandyougetthatveryhighsurfaceareaoforderedwaterthatsavesyourmitochondriatheenergyofmakingthat.

So,thisissomethingthatIdoatmystandingdeskandjustfloatsthecameraaroundmystandingdeskbecausebackthere,sometimesIputitonmydesk,andcomebacktomeElliott,andthenbehindmeIhavesomeoftheneurofeedbackgearfrom[inaudible01:24:35]andjustonthetable.Wedon'tneedtozoominonthatoranything,butIwillusethiswhileI'vegottheelectrodesonmyhead,orIwilluseitjustprettymuchwheneverI'mgoingtobeinoneplacefor15minutesandIdon'tobsessivelyuseit.SomedaysIdon'tuseit.Butoverall,it'sanadditivething,andwhenyou'relookingataging,anddeath,andallthat,it'slotsofsubtractivethings.

So,anytimeIcangetanopportunitytoaddsomethingbackininsteadoftakesomethingout,I'lltakeit.AnytimeIcanavoiddoingsomethingthatcausesextradamage,I'llavoidit.Andthatgeneralstrategy,whichistonotbeperfect,buttojustmovethingsinthedirectionoflessdamageandmorerepairequalsmoreperformancenow.Yourbrainworksbetternow,andyou'llprobablylivelonger,alongtheway.So,thereyougo.

Haveanawesomeday.Thanksforlistening.Ifyoulikethis,gottoiTunesandsay,"Ilikedthis,"andsharewithpeople.Leaveareview.Ithinkwe'vepassed1,500reviews.I'mgratefulforthat,andsomethingthatwillbeevenmoreimpactfulisgoontoAmazon,take10secondsandleaveafivestarreviewofHeadstrong.It'sgotacouplehundredreviews,butit'sareallyimpactfulbook,maybeevenmoreimportantthattheBulletproofDiet.TheBulletproofdietisveryfood-based,veryactionable,andHeadstrong'sgotaslotofgoodsciencesunderstandable,andit'sgotactionablestuffreturningonmitochondriathatgoeswaybeyondjustdietandthefirstplaceyou'regoingtofeelmitochondrialfunctionisinyourbrain.Yourbrainturnsonfirst,thentheheart,thentherestofthebody.

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