Abu Saleh: "There is No PLO-American Dialogue"Author(s): Abu SalehSource: MERIP Reports, No. 83 (Dec., 1979), pp. 12-14Published by: Middle East Research and Information Project (MERIP)Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3012394 .

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Israeli Military Authorities

Ban Illegal" Palestinian

Organization The military authorities have warned a number of public figures in the administered territories that the activities of a body named as the "Pre? paratory Committee for the Palestine National Front" are illegal and that anyone who partici? pates in it is likely to face prosecution.

The committee, an informal forum of mayors and other public figures in the West Bank and Gaza, is believed to have been active in recent months in coordinating a number of political groups. It is thought to have been behind the almost complete general strike in the territories on March 26, the day the Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty was signed in Washington, as well as recent protests against establishment of Jewish settlements.

Among its alleged members are Bassam Shak'ah and Mohammad Milhem, the mayors of Nablus and Halhul; Ramallah Mayor Karim Khalaf; Dr. Haider Abdul Shafei and Dr. Ahmed Hamza Natshe, both of whom met recently with Foreign Minister Moshe Dayan.

The body, previously unknown to the general public, is alleged to operate under the cover of the "National Guidance Committee," which was set up at a meeting in the Jerusalem suburb of Beit Llanina last October to coordinate political action in the territories.

A senior military source told the Jerusalem Post last night that the "preparatory commit? tee" was considered an offshoot of the illegal Palestine National Front [PNF], a loose coali? tion of PLO supporters in the West Bank and Gaza. The source said that while the PNF was now virtually non-existent, the "preparatory committee" had emerged recently as a body which acted as the "operational arm" of the PLO in the territories. It had encouraged people to "disturb the peace, be generally negative and to call for violent opposition to US," he said.

Observers noted last night that the decision ?which was taken at the highest political level? seemed intended to stem the growing influence of the PLO in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

The immediate reaction on the West Bank to the news of the ban last night was that it was a politically inspired decision designed to "pre? pare the way for imposing autonomy on the Palestinians of the occupied territories with the least possible opposition."

Source: Jerusalem Post, Oct. 11,1979

Interviews_

Abu Salehs "There is no

Abu Saleh is one of the original founders of Fateh and has served on the Fateh central Council and the General Com? mand of Assifa, the military wing of Fateh, since its inception. A truckdriver and worker in Palestine before 1948, Abu Saleh is respected in Palestinian circles as a hardworking and militant leader who is uncompromising in his defense of the Palestinian people. This interview was conducted in Beirut by a MERIP special correspondent on September 7, 1979.

US strategy has been in flux since the Iranian revolution. There has been discussion of a possible "shift" in US policy in a more pro-Palestinian or pro-Arab direction.

We certainly haven't noticed any shift in Lebanon. American policy, in fact, is very consistent towards our people and our cause. After the Iranian revolution, Israeli shelling against our camps has escalated, and for the past three months our camps and Lebanese villages have been living under continuous shel? ling and bombardment encouraged and supported by the US.

The autonomy talks seem stalemated. Do you think the US will move away from the Camp David agreements? We are confident the autonomy plot will fail, but we don't know the next step for the US. We have learned from history however, that the US will give up its positions only if it is defeated. We are confident that American policy will finally be defeated in our region.

Israeli negotiator Yosef Burg and US negotiator Robert

Khalid al-Hassans "Our

Khalid al-Hassan is a founder of the Palestine National Liberation Movement (Fatah) and a member of the Central Council of the Palestine National Council. He was interviewed in New York on October 3, 1979 by George Cavaletto and Sheila Ryan of the Palestine Solidarity Committee and Jim Paul, an editor of MERIP Reports.

How do you assess the present role of Jordan? Do you feel that the Jordanian position on the Palestinian right to an independent state and PLO representation is firm, or that there is some prospect that the official government position could be modified?

Well, in politics nothing is permanent. But with regard to the period since Camp David and the Arab Summit Conference at Baghdad, Jordan is one hundred percent committed to the resolutions adopted at the Baghdad Conference, especially those of the meeting of the ministers of foreign affairs and economy which also took place in Baghdad. As a result, we have started a sort of dialogue with the Jordanians, and we are coordinating support for our people inside according to the decisions adopted by the Baghdad Summit Conference. We are also negotiating the mechanism of coordination in the

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PLO-American Dialogue"

Abu Saleh

Strauss have hinted that King Hussein may join the

autonomy talks. What is your opinion?

We don't belive King Hussein will join the autonomy talks. The

Camp David trio fears the failure of its agreements, so they are

talking about the participation of King Hussein. Hussein is not

representing our people, now will we allow him to do so. Camp David only represents the will of those forces who met together

at Camp David and these forces are condemned more with

every passing day.

Could you evaluate the development of the "Arab consensus"

against the Camp David agreements and the Egyptian- Israeli treaty since the Baghdad Summit?

Even those countries influenced by the United States support? ed the Palestinian people at the Baghdad Summit and con? demned US policy. These countries cannot adopt the Camp David agreements because they fear their masses. We support every Arab effort against Camp David and in support of our

people's rights.

In July you gave a strong speech in Beirut condemning the

assassination of Khaled al-lraqi in Beirut this June by Iraqi

agents. * Could you comment on the significance of this assas?

sination and the state of current Palestinian-Iraqi relations?

We are constantly trying to strengthen the Arab positions in

support of the Palestinian revolution. We see that the Iraqi

regime has taken some actions recently that demand attention

* Adel Wasfi (Khaled al-lraqi) was the Deputy Editor-in-Chief of Filastin al Thawra, the official daily newspaper of the PLO. He was murdered in the Palestinian section of West Beirut on June 20,1979. Originally from Iraq, he joined Fateh in 1969 and, according to his colleagues, had not been involved in inter-Iraqi politics. His funeral procession in Beirut was joined by thousands of angry mourners and headed by Yasser Arafat, Abu Jihad, Abu Saleh and other Palestinian leaders. He left behind a wife, Itaf, and two daughters, Lama, one year old and Sana, two months old.

Strategy Is To Help Our People Stay on Their Land"

fields of information. After the recent meeting between Abu Ammar [Yasser Arafat] and King Hussein, we anticipated that we would coordinate in the field of politics, as well as information and consultation.

I think King Hussein realized that his position could not revert to what it was before 1967. In his speech at the United

Nations, he was blunt, open, and clear. He talked about self- determination of the Palestinian people, about their right of return. He spoke about a just resolution for the Palestinian

problem. We are mostly optimistic about future relations with

Jordan.

How serious an obstacle is the continued refusal of the Jordanian government to allow the PLO to organize among the population in Jordan politically or to conduct military operations?

Well, if you want to talk about political activity, let's be frank. Jordan does not allow the Jordanians to have political activities ortoform political parties. I don'tthink it's practical to ask King Hussein to allow us to have a free hand politically in organizing our people, to accept something that he refuses within his own

regime. The country is run in a way which contradicts

completely our thinking on political freedom, which means

political parties; not individual freedom, but an organized,

mass freedom represented by political parties. I don't think there is a revolutionary man who asks for permission to be allowed to organize himself. This should be done in our own

way, not with permission, because this permission will not be

given anywhere by any government. We have to understand these things in a very practical and genuine way. Otherwise, we will find ourselves in a deadlock. Now, we need cooperation and coordination. We do not need deadlocks.

What about on the military plane?

I think there is a possibility militarily, but in this case, like the

others, they will ask us for coordination with the army chief of staff. We cannot have freedom in military action unless we are

powerful enough to enforce it. If you want to coordinate, agreements are always available for that.

What is the PLO strategy vis-a-vis the West Bank, and could you tell us particularly about the Fund for Steadfastness?

I think this was the best and most important decision taken by the Baghdad Summit Conference. Through this fund we are now able to help our people inside find jobs, build roads, houses, and schools. You know we have universities inside the

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from us Palestinians. This regime talks about confrontation with Israel and imperialism but actually practices the role of ally and guard. This regime is pressuring Syria and also pressuring the Palestinians and the Lebanese National Movement. It also is

liquidating democratic and revolutionary forces in Iraq. This

regime has hitthe Kurds,the Communists, and even comrades in their own party. After they tried to defend the Shah's regime they stood against the Iranian revolution. Now they have

opened fire on some Palestinian cadres. As Palestinians, we

strongly reject any time when someone is executed simply because he disagrees with his government. Such actions reflect tribalism and we stand against such a course.

The Palestine National Councilin January 1979 adopted a "National Unity" program to unify the revolution on both the military and political levels. To what extent has this been implemented?

We can say that Palestinian national unity will now finally be completed. According to the last Palestine National Council, all factions of the Palestinian revolution adopted a unified Pales? tinian political program and one month ago we began meet? ings to carry out this organizational program passed by the PNC. We have consultations and we have a committee, consist?

ing of myself, Yasser Abed Rabbo, Dr. Ahmed Dejani and Abdul Rahim Ahmed which is responsible for preparing the final text of a national unity proposal, which will be presented to the next Palestine National Council.** We are fully confi? dent this will happen before the end of this year.

** One of the central aspects of the national unity proposal is the composition of the PLO Executive Committee. At the last Palestine National Congress the old Executive Committee was retained for lack of agreement on this point. Yasser Abed Rabbo, of the Democratic Popular Front, is head of the PLO's Information Department. Ahmed Dejani, an independent, is a member of the PLO Executive Committee. Ahmed Abdul Rahman, of Fatah, is chief editor of Filastin ath-Thawra. As of this writing, the PFLP was still not represented on the committee.

For several months, there have been reports of a "PLO- US dialogue."

The US weapons used against us in South Lebanon are the reality of such a dialogue. There is no official Palestinian-Amer? ican dialogue at all. I myself as a Palestinian official?as a member of the Fateh Central Council and of the General Command of Assifa, and as a leader in many Palestinian institu? tions can say that we have not discussed any American dia? logue. The American dialogue is talk carried out in closed rooms between elements who are not responsible. The United States has tried to deceive the Palestinian people. This Ameri? can dialogue is justthe aspiration of some American professors of Palestinian origin tryingto beautify the American face for us. They try to serve the US, not the Palestinian cause. They are always whispering in the ears of some Palestinians who do not dare to even discuss their proposals. We know US policy and we know that the best way to have a dialogue with the US is to destroy its interests in our region. The US will recognize our rights when we help bring down its four or five allies in the Arab region.

What is the Palestinian strategy in the next period to confront US policy?

The next two years will bring many changes in our region. The American empire is in decline. So we Palestinians are not in a hurry. We are four million rebels in the Middle East. We are in a vital Arab region. The Americans are interested in oil. We Palestinians certainly cannot dominate this oil, but we could burn this oil one day. Palestinians who can penetratethe Israeli line and die in Tel Aviv or Jaffa are also able to penetrate the borders of any state in the region. The Americans are not capable of liquidating the Palestinian people.

West Bank?we can enable those universities to be real up-to- date universities.

What is the size of this fund?

It's about $150 million, annually for ten years.

That is quite a lot. And donations were agreed to by the various governments?

We received all the money.

What about the actual disbursement process of that Fund?

Usually we do not impose anything on our people inside. They have elected town mayors and councils, and they know what they want. They bring all their studies and their needs in accordance with a master plan. We discuss it also on our side. Then in coordination with the Jordanian government, the funds enter in a legal way. The Israelis cannot stop it legally? these monies are coming through the proper channels and in accordance with laws which were adopted originally by the Israelis, hoping that this would keep us far from the people. It's done in a proper way.

These funds mostly go for collective work. It's not for personal use. It's for the collectively organized things. And in? side it would be spent under the supervision of the municipal

councils. For instance, the cities of Nablus and East Jerusalem have out-dated electrical generators. The Israelis will not help to rebuild them because they want their electric network to cover our needs. Before this fund, with the help of the Arab municipalities, we arranged to buy what was needed for electricity in both cities so that they can have their own systems.

Considering the Fund as one aspect, how would you summarize the PLO strategy on the West Bank?

What we want to do, and this has nothing to do with the PLO strategy of struggle, is to help our people stay there, to prevent their starvation and unemployment, which pushes them to help the Israeli economy or to leave the country. For instance, we have more than 10,000 high school graduates every year. So, we need universities inside to absorb these people, otherwise those students will have to go outside. If it wasn't for our high rate of natural increase, 4.8 percent, the Israelis would have succeeded [in depopulating the occupied territories]. So the number of Palestinians remains the same in spite of the Israeli strategy to push our people out. Many left because they want to eat, they want to work. But the balance was held through the birth rate. Now I think fewer people will go out than before because they will have jobs inside the West Bank.

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