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CAMPBELL: We'll preface this tape. This is an interview taking place at the Duluth.

Police Department interview room. The time is 4:30 p.m. The date is 09-20­

83, and present is Sgt. Campbell of the Duluth Police Department, and Mike

Mulder. Mike, how do you spell your last name?

MULDER: MULDER.

CAMPBELL: And your middle name?

MULDER: Henry.

CAMPBELL: And your date of birth?

MULDER: May 12, 1935.

CAMPBELL: Mike, as you know, the Police Department is investigating the death of Sally

Tharaldson and Virgil LaPanta.

MULDER: Yes.

CAMPBELL: The bodies were discovered in the bay on August 29. Now, you are the owner, or

manager, or what?

MULDER: Yes, both.

CAMPBELL: Owner/manager of the Seaway Hotel, and this is the hotel that Virgil LaPanta

lived at, is that correct?

MULDER: That's correct.

CAMPBELL: Okay, why don't you just basically give me what background you can about

Virgil. I mean, you knew him fairly well. Why don't you just go with that,

start with that.

MULDER: Virgil lived at the hotel for approximately, oh, almost 15 years. He stayed

there two different times. His total stay was maybe 14~ years or so. He moved

out two or three months I think when he was in the hospital and then he moved

right back in the Seaway Hotel.

CAMPBELL: Were you familiar with Virgil's activities?

MULDER: Well, ...

CAMPBELL: I mean like for instance, did you know that he kept booze in his room that he

would sell to his friends or give to his friends if they replaced it.

MULDER: Yes, I had heard that.

CAMPBELL: Do you know whether or not Virgil sold any drugs?

MULDER: Not that I was aware of.

CAMPBELL: Was Virgil a heavy drinker?

MULDER: No, I don't think so. I've seen him intoxicated a couple of times. I think

his main problem was that he had some type of a form of narcolepsy. I'm sure

that the combination of the two would... I don't feel there's a problem with

him. I don't think he had an alcohol problem.

CAMPBELL: All right. How well were you acquainted with Sally Tharaldson?

MULDER: Not at all. I don't even know what she looked like.

CAMPBELL: You had never met her?

MULDER: I don't believe so.

CAMPBELL: How about her husband, Jerry Tharaldson?

MULDER: I think I have met him once. After the disappearance he came into the hotel

and I was talking to him, and at the time I wasn't even aware of who he was.

CAMPBELL: Do you remember that conversation?

MULDER: Well, he just asked if I'd seen Virgil. He said, "Did Virgil return?", or

something like that. The clerk that he talked to mostly, I usually work

mornings, so I'm there six in the morning until two or three in the afternoon.

I think Mr. Tharaldson had some conversations with Joseph Talbot, and Mr.

Talbot might be able to help.

CAMPBELL: Okay, in some of the notes that I have received in this case, I didn't

originally start the case, and it mentioned in here that for some reason that

you had knowledge of Jerry Lee and another fellow going to some lady's house

earlier in the day. You don't know anything about that?

MULDER: No.

CAMPBELL: I found that in a note somewhere, but the first time you ever met Jerry Lee

Tharaldson was the day that he came in looking for Virgil?

MULDER: I didn't actually meet him that day, but I think the other clerk told me that's

Jerry.

CAMPBELL: But you did have some conversation with him?

MULDER: Just to the effect that, "Has Virgil turned up?"

CAMPBELL: The other people living at the Seaway, does anybody, what was their opinion of

Virgil ?

MULDER: Oh, probably the same as mine. I could get really irritated with Virgil,

upset with him. Some people I would stay mad at for two or three months, but

Virgil, I could love the guy the next day. He, possibly a few might have

disliked him. I don't think he had any enemies or anybody hated him.

CAMPBELL: You don't know of anybody that disliked him enough that would want to do him

any harm?

MULDER: No.

CAMPBELL: What about women? There a lot of girlfriends hanging around?

MULDER: There was a generally kidding that he had many, many girlfriends. I think

this is over a number of years. At times Virgil worked hard and made good

money and I think most of his money would go, give the girls or buy the girls

drinks.

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CAMPBELL: Did he ever bring any of them back to the hotel that you know of?

MULDER: Oh, I'm sure he did.

CAMPBELL: Did you actually see him in the company of any in the hotel?

MULDER: The daughters of this, oh, let's see, the Hallgren daughters.

you know, the Hallgren girls, they were frequent visitors.

CAMPBELL: To his room?

MULDER: Yes.

CAMPBELL: Did they stay for any length of time?

MULDER: No, they were, I was under the impression they might have borrowed money from

him. Virgil was very unpredictable. Most of the people at the hotel I can

say, "He'll get up at eight or he'll eat breakfast at nine, or he'll sit by the

window at eleven," and they would do that in a set pattern. Virgil, I was

really, didn't have no schedule. He was very unpredictable.

CAMPBELL: What do you hear down the street, around the Seaway and that, as far as the

finding of the two bodies?

MULDER: Well, for three or four days that was all anybody was mentioning. They were

talking. It seems like after the three or four days then there's absolutely

nothing.

CAMPBELL: What was the general consensus at that time, those two or three days?

MULDER: Well, that they had met with foul play.

CAMPBELL: Why do people think that?

MULDER: There were so many, man running off with a married woman.

CAMPBELL: There are a few things in the case that have us concerned, you know, we don't

know that there was foul play or not except for some of the facts, you know,

one of the facts being a large rock in the car which most people don't drive

around with a rock in their car. The fact that there were items missing that

should have been in the car that weren't there. This concerns us. After

Virgil disappeared, did anybody that you know of ever say anything to the fact

that, you know, "Virgil's not coming back or he's probably dead or something

happened to him."

MULDER: Well, his brother, Bob, and sister, Havron Connolly, would come in all the

time and whereas everybody else I felt had given up on Virgil or forgot about

Virgil, this was an obsession with his brother and sister.

CAMPBELL: What about Jerry Tharaldson, did he ever come in again after that first time

that you know of?

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MULDER: Not that I know of, but I'm sure he came on Joe Talbot's shift.

CAMPBELL: Were he and Joe pretty good friends?

MULDER: No, but I think just because of the evenings, I don't know if being a later

person or something, but I know Joe had mentioned he was in two or three times

inquiring.

CAMPBELL: What about Dan Dandrea, he was working for you at that time?

MULDER: Right, part-time clerk, he was a friend of my son's. He was a student at the

University of Alaska. I think he's home now, well, he might have gone back,

but he's quiet boy.

CAMPBELL: Was he a responsible worker?

MULDER: I felt so, yes.

CAMPBELL: Okay, I mean if you gave him a task to do, you knew that it was going to be

done?

MULDER: Yes.

CAMPBELL: And if he said that he did it, he had done it?

MULDER: Yes, I would rehire if he wanted me to.

CAMPBELL: Did you ever know him to embellish on a story, if he did something, ever know

him to make it sound bigger than it was or that he knew more than he did?

MULDER: No, he was more of the soft-spoken type. He was quiet, soft-spoken.

CAMPBELL: Honest?

MULDER: I believe so.

CAMPBELL: Trustworthy?

MULDER: I never had any reason to doubt it.

CAMPBELL: Would you have trusted him with a large sum of money in the hotel?

MULDER: Yes, I would have.

CAMPBELL: The reason I'm asking is because he was talked to right after that happened

because he was evidently, you know, as far as we know, saw Virgil leave the

hotel, and he states that Virgil came down and went out the front door and met

somebody in a car on Superior Street, but now we have other people that said

that Virgil went out the side door and met a car on the side of the hotel, so

they just don't match, and ...

MULDER: At the time I was under the impression that it was on the side of the

building, out the side door.

CAMPBELL: Did you talk to Dan about it at all after this happened?

MULDER: I'm sure I did, but I don't recall what the conversation was.

CAMPBELL: Let's see if I can find that quick here. I believe when he was talked to he

stated that Virgil came down, about two a.m. he saw a vehicle pull up in front

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MULDER:

CAMPBELL:

MULDER:

CAMPBELL:

MULDER:

CAMPBELL:

MULDER:

CAMPBELL:

of the hotel in the eastbound lane of Superior Street and stop. The vehicl~

did not turn into a parking place, but simply stopped in the traffic lane. He

did note that Virgil appeared to notice the vehicle and start towards the

front of the hotel, then hesitate, went elsewhere in the building. He stated

Virgil did not get beyond the desk while enroute towards the front of the

hotel. He noted the same vehicle then to pull up in front of the hotel, again

heading east and again in the traffic lane. At this time LaPanta did walk

through the lobby to the front of the hotel and was carrying a paper bag about

the size normally used to carry a liquor bottle. He did not say the bag did

contain a bottle, but assumed it. He did in fact walk out the front door,

across the street and did walk around the front of the vehicle and did get in

it. Dan was certain that LaFanta entered the vehicle, but does not recollect

noticing whether he got in the front or back seat. If he said that then he, he

wouldn't make it up, would he? I mean, in your estimation, I mean, you don't

know that, but, he worked for you, so you ...

No, I would ...

Venture to say that he knows what ... ?

Yes.

He knew Virgil?

Yes.

Mike, is there anything at all that you can think of, anybody we should talk

to, anything that we should be looking at or whatever? I know it's been five

years, well, it's been better than five years now, but things are, you know,

getting pretty vague in a lot of people's memories, you know, in picking up

this case like I have, going cold. I only picked it up about three months ago,

I certainly can use all the assistance I can get. I'd appreciate if there is

anything you can think of or if there is anybody that says anything to you that

may know anything or whatever, sure would appreciate it if you'd have them get

in contact with me. I'll give you a card just in case and if you hear anything

or, you know, it doesn't make any difference whether it's rumor, conjecture or

what, cause we're going to have check it out anyways in the long run, I'd

appreciate it if you'd give me a call.

All right. It's just a pos?ibility the fellow... You want to leave that on

there?

Would you rather not?

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MULDER:

CAMPBELL:

MULDER:

CAMPBELL:

MULDER:

CAMPBELL:

MULDER:

CAMPBELL:

MULDER:

CAMPBELL:

MULDER:

CAMPBELL:

Well, the fellow that did the carpenter work over at Jerry Lee's Doll House.

Do you know who that was?

Yes, I know his name. Ed Osnick, but I don't want to mention my name or any

reference to my name. It's spelled with an "0".

And he was a carpenter?

He did all of the woodwork and the interior.

Do you know Ed?

Yes.

Pretty well?

Yes.

Is he an upstanding citizen or is he ... ?

He's s sailor. He's stayed off and on at the Saeway for five, six years. He

was acquainted with Virgil. They were friends. He just possibly might be a

possibility, but I just don't want my name to be ...

No problem, no problem at all, Mike. Okay, I appreciate your coming down.

We'll conclude the interview at 4:45 p.m.

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