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2012-08-07-Randolph Sheppard

Seminars@Hadley

Blind Vendors: Understanding theRandolph Sheppard Program

Presented by Kevin Worley

Moderated by Larry Muffet

August 7, 2012

Larry Muffet Welcome to seminars at Hadley. My name is Larry Muffet. I’m a member of Hadley seminar team and I also work in the Curricular Affairs department. Today’s seminar topic is, “Understanding the Randolph Sheppard Program”. Your presenter is Kevin Worley.

Kevin is the CEO of Worley Enterprises. The company was founded in 1992 and provides food services to government installations, which currently includes Fort Carson, Camp Pendleton, and Shriver Air Force Base. Kevin also serves as the executive director of the National Association of Blind Merchants, a division of the National Federation of the Blind. He has also built an effective consulting

©2012 The Hadley School for the Blind of 53


business and has recently launched a new company providing community outreach services to non-profit organizations.

Today, Kevin will present us with the basics of the Randolph Sheppard program. So now, without any further ado, let me welcome Kevin and turn the microphone over to him. Okay Kevin, you’re good to go.

Kevin WorleyI have taken courses from Hadley. I hate to tell you how long ago that was. Okay, 30 plus years ago I took a couple of great classes from Hadley. So thank you for your work over the years. I know we have a lot to cover in a short time.

But just let me say, on a personal note in passing, my math and science teacher at the Illinois School for the Blind, was one of my very, very favorite role model teachers, again 35 plus years ago. After retiring, he spent many years teaching Hadley courses in math, science, and business. So, it’s really nice to be a part of what you’re doing for the blind in the nation and the world. Thank you for the opportunity.

Well, I am Kevin Worley and I’m governed by a couple of things and they will relate to Randolph Sheppard, hang in with me. George Bernard Shaw



said, “Those who get on in this world get up every day and look for the circumstances that they want. And if they can’t find those circumstances, they make them.”

I like that. It’s about building opportunity and it kind of leads into the second motto that I have for myself, for Worley enterprises, and the work I do at the National Association of Blind Merchants. And the second motto for me is, “building opportunity through service.”

If you think about it, you can find a place in your life in business where you can get up every day and look for circumstances. But if you don’t find the positive opportunity that you want you’ve built it yourself. And while you’ve built it, you build it by serving others, customers collaborators, partners.

I also want to just mention at the top here, I notice the list of folks who are participating. It looks like the right numbers of women are on this call. I would say for purposes of Randolph Sheppard that’s an important thing because right now. Of more than 2,300 blind vendors, licensed blind vendors, and business operators who are engaged and licensed in the business of Randolph Sheppard, only about 23% of those folks are women.

So, we really do need to have more women involved in the program and I think that you’ll see that



Randolph Sheppard might be an opportunity for women. I have about three things I want to cover. Let’s do the first one, the law and the program.

Now I’m not a lawyer, I’ve never played one on TV. I sometimes have served as an advocate negotiating individualized education plans for parents of blind kids or representing folks in rehabilitation who may feel that they are not getting a fair shake so I’ve been an advocate, but never a lawyer. So we’re not going to spend a lot of time on the law of it.

Suffice it to say that the Randolph Sheppard act was first passed in 1936 Jennings Randolph was a member of congress. He believed that new deal programs are to include a place for blind people and he fought that entrepreneurship would be a place, I don’t know if they used the word entrepreneurship much in the 30s, that’s kind of a buzz word in the last decade, isn’t it when you think about it. Good buzz word I suppose.

But, Jennings Randolph thought that this would be a good program to establish so that blind people might have an opportunity to run little counters, snack counter at the post office, and sell notions and candy and cigarettes. He teamed with Senator Morris Sheppard of Texas. They passed a piece of legislation called the Randolph Sheppard act but in



1974 the Randolph Sheppard act was significantly amended to move this program to a different level of entrepreneurship.

So that blind individuals, licensed by the state licensing agency, will get into that in a minute, could operate not just a few vending machines or not just a snack counter in the lobby, we could move to full food services in the federal government sector, on essentially all federal government property.

Now, I’ll add a caveat to all fed government property because as the act and the program has evolved in 37 years, we’re finding that there are certain properties which it is difficult to have this priority. So the act the Randolph Sheppard act as amended in 1974 gives blind individuals a right of first refusal, or a priority, to operate food service and concessions on most fed property.

There are caveats to that but if you want to read the act you can see those. Where could you read the act you ask, well Hadley probably has a copy of it, or, you could go to www.blindmerchants.org. The Randolph Sheppard act is up there. The rules implementing the act are up there so that will give you the statutory basis for the Randolph Sheppard program, also known, by the way, as the Business Enterprise Program.


http://www.blindmerchants.org/


So if you hear someone say well I’m looking into going into the Business Enterprise Program of the state of California or Oregon or Illinois, they’re talking Randolph Sheppard. The Business Enterprise Program for the blind and the Randolph Sheppard program is the same thing. What happens is you’ve got the Randolph Sheppard act.

One of the elements of the Randolph Sheppard act calls for the United States department of education through the rehabilitation services administration to license a state agency to administer the program.

So usually it’s the commission for the blind in your state or the division of vocational rehabilitation in your state that says we’re going to have a Business Enterprise Program under the Randolph Sheppard act. We’re going to submit our rules and regulations. The rehabilitation Service Administration says yes those are good rules, you developed those rules in collaboration with your elected Committee of Blind Vendors.

You can have a program. You now can operate a program. You can get matching funds to help operate your program. And so the program can come into being. Now, most states also have what we often



refer to in the trade business as mini Randolph Sheppard Acts.

These are laws that have been passed over the past 50-60 years by state legislation. They give blind people through the designated state licensing agency, again the commission for the blind or the vocational rehabilitation agency. They give blind business owners the opportunity to manage often vending, snack bars, cafeterias at many state buildings. Sometimes county and municipal buildings those laws vary from state to state.

Let’s talk a little about the program and then we’re going to take a few questions about the first two elements of this, the act and the program. The program is for allowing blind people, blind entrepreneurs, blind vendors, blind merchants, the opportunity to manage and profit from small businesses. Usually in the concessions, food service, cafeteria, vending business.

So you go through training. We’ll get to that in a minute. You go through training, get a license, and you can bid on locations around your state and when I say bit it is typically, well it is never, a financial bid. In other words, you don’t have to say well I’d like to have that course house down there or I’d like to have that bid federal cafeteria, how much is it going to take me.



What kind of a price offer do I have to make? You don’t.

When you bid on a location, it means you present your business plan and other materials that the state agency wants to best select the candidate to operate that location. The state agency, it’s called a program because the state licensing agency provides the apparatus, the infrastructure if you will. They help fund it.

They work in collaboration with the elected Committee of Blind Vendors. So if you’re a blind vendor you might say “I want to be a part of governing this program. I’m going to run to be a member of the committee so I am part of the program in a meaningful way. I am helping to construct the program” so when we talk about the program it implies governance, operations, management, collaboration.

How do you get into this program? We’re going to talk about that in a minute but before we do that, I’m going to go ahead… I sort of remind myself of my good friend Senator Michael Bennett of Colorado when he does town meetings he says “Well, let me take this question but I don’t want to talk very long because I want to hear from you. I really want to hear from you.” Then he answers the question in about 25 minutes.



So I don’t want to be Senator Bennett. I’m going to let this key go here and see if there are any quick questions for me so we can dialog at least a little bit before we move into the next part of this webinar.

Larry Muffeet This is your opportunity if you’d like to ask a few questions of Kevin. We’ve got the chance now so for those of you that have a question ready, let’s go ahead and fire away.

Brian MadleyIs there a listing, a clearing house, where we could see what buildings would qualify as federal or state?

Kevin WorleyYeah, you know that’s a very good question. There is no specific listing. You’d think there would be. Maybe the National Association of Blind Merchants ought to come up with such a thing. The difficulty really, you raise a very good point, because the number of both state and federal buildings which have not been procured by the state Business Enterprise Programs and some of the folks on this call by the way I know have been involved in trying to procure some new opportunities.



We certainly have in the National Association of Blind Merchants. I guess the only way to go about it would be to reach out to the Business Enterprise Programs in each state and say “hey I’d like to have a list of the locations that you are currently running” and they should be able to do that and if they can’t you call me and I’ll make sure they do give it to you. But in terms of a federal government wide list I don’t know of a repository though we could check with Dan Fry at the Rehabilitation Services Administration who is the federal employee who currently is charged with oversight of this program.

I doubt that he has such a thing because if he did I’d probably be using it. The thing is we happen to know that there are thousands and thousands of federal buildings that we are not doing business in and this is the kind of thing we need to work more diligently to create. But I think what you want to do if you plan to stay in your state is reach out to your state agency and say “tell me the locations we currently have as I consider whether or not to get into this program” which segways very nicely with how do I get into this program?

Look, the first thing you do is open a rehabilitation case so if you’re not working and you want to investigate the program. Well, first thing I would do is make an appointment with the people in your state



that run the Business Enterprise Program. You want to get a sense of who they are, what they are, what kind of administration you have there.

Are they open to your ideas? Are you open to their ideas? Stephen cubby says seek to understand before being understood. I notice a lot of my colleagues like to tell everybody what they think but we don’t sometimes (I’m just as guilty) we don’t sometimes slow down and say “What is the perspective of the other guy?” And if you’re going to build business opportunities, getting that understanding from others before you make your decisions, your assessments, and your appraisals makes a lot of sense.

When I deal with hundreds of customers a day, I want to know what their needs are. I want to understand their position. I want to understand what their income level is. I want to understand why their attitude toward me and my business is what it is before I start telling them my point of view.

So, you go into the program, I think, by first reaching out the Business Enterprise Program in your state. If you don’t know who that is, you can send me an email and I’ll get it to you. [email protected]. I’ll be happy to get you that information. So you make an appointment.


mailto:[email protected]


They might say “Well, you have to open a rehabilitation case first.”

If I were someone in those shoes, I’d say “Well, I understand that and I don’t know about that process, but do you have 30 minutes for me to just survey the land?” Mostly they will. If you like what you hear, you open a rehabilitation case and you’re going to get a rehabilitation counselor. And you’re going to talk to that rehabilitation counselor about your vocational outcome. And you’re going to say, “I’d like to consider this Business Enterprise Program.”

Each state, unfortunately, each state will have different rules of the road. Some of them you’ll have to go through some sort of vocational assessment. What are your skills of blindness? Do you travel well with a long white cane or use a guide dog. Do you have visual aids like a monocular that make more effective in terms of the way you deal with business, your communication with people? What are your math skills? I mean if you’ve got a third grade math level, chances are you’re not going to be able to run a location that you hope will ultimately gross $800,000, a million, a million five a year.

They need to know that they can teach you bookkeeping and accounting. You don’t have to be an accountant to get into this program, but you have to



have some basic knowledge. So you’ll have to do some evaluations. I know. Nobody likes rehabilitation evaluating. But you have to at least do some of that if you want to get into the trade. States will then offer you Business Enterprise Program training, Randolph Sheppard training.

Unfortunately, that varies wildly state to state. Some states, it’s six months at their rehabilitation center. Some cases, it’s six weeks at a rehabilitation center. In some cases, it’s six weeks at a rehabilitation center and you have to take eight courses at the community college. So it’s all over the map.

When you have that initial conversation with the BEP folks or the rehabilitation counselor folks, ask them, what is the training scenario? And you’ll have to make a determination. Man, is it two years? Well if it’s two years, can I really, is that training going to be beneficial? Is that training going to help me build opportunity in the program?

Let’s face it if you’re in a state where there are only eleven Business Enterprise Program locations, there are already fifteen people licensed, the top earning level is $50.000 a year, do you want to invest two years of your time for that kind of opportunity? That’s a decision, I think, that you’ll have to make.



So you’re going to go through the training. And then you’ll ultimately be trained. You will not be licensed typically. Typically you have to get into a location for a period of time. 90 days, 120 days, 180 days, and then you will be provided a license. How do you get into that first location? Well, hopefully you’re lucky.

You come out of training and there’s a location sitting there, the court house, a food service that you would want, or the state hospital or the federal building downtown. And you say to the agency, “I’ve done my training. I’d like to get into this” They say, “Let’s take a look at your training record.” And they say “Well, gosh, there’s no other blind vendor there. Do you want to go look at it?” Yeah, I want to go look at it. You say, “Wow, looking at this data it looks like this thing could maybe gross $200,000 a year. If I can run the thing at say 20% or even 15% or 18%, I’m going to make $30,000 or $40,000 right out of the box. I think that’s something I ought to do.”

So you submit your business plan and it is likely that you would get chosen to operate for that location. The state agency gives you support. They are supposed to give you your equipment, your initial inventory, and typically a start-up loan which you’ll have to pay back over a year. So when you think about considering Randolph Sheppard, think about it this way. You’re not going to need opening money. They’re going to



loan it to you. They’re going to give you the equipment. They’re going to give you initial inventory.

You’re going to be accountable for those things. In most states, they’re going to pay; the program is going to pay for most of your machine and equipment repairs. In most instances you do not pay for, this is key stuff now guys as you consider whether this business opportunities are for you, you don’t pay rent you don’t pay utilities.

So let’s say mom and pop start up guy went to the federal building downtown. They would likely have to get a loan to start his business. They would likely have to buy their own equipment. They would have to pay a lease, and pay utilities. In most states, you pay very little or nothing for all of these services. Many states have what’s called a set-aside, or an administrative fee.

That is a percent of your net profit that goes back to help manage the program. That helps to buy the equipment, pay repair costs, and buy that initial inventory. If you were a franchise owner and you wanted to run a Subway, Quizno’s, or an Einstein Bagel at that same location, you’d be paying 5, 6, 8, 10 percent of your gross, not on your net. That makes a big difference.



So, that’s a little about how you get into the program, and sort of the initial acclamation to the program. I’m going to see if there’s any other questions or I notice there are a couple of my colleagues on here they may have some corrections. So let me see if there’re any comments from my colleagues on this webinar

Larry MuffetKevin, this is Larry. I’m obviously not one of your colleagues but a question that comes to mind, we do a lot of work under our veteran’s initiative. Are there veteran’s preference points or any sort of veteran’s preference? I know in a lot of government programs there is. Is there one for Randolph Sheppard?

Kevin WorleyYou know there is not. And it’s something that we, the advocates for the program, have considered. Also some states in the bid process for the location, you remember earlier I talked about how you would submit a bid plan to the agency and also the Committee of Blind Vendors they would talk about your credentials, your qualifications, your past performance, what kind of percentages you’ve been earning.

I see no reason, I should probably check this, but frankly I see no reason why there couldn’t be if the state agency, with the elected Committee, wanted to



put some sort of preference in there for blind veterans that we couldn’t do that. Currently I know of no preference points. There certainly are a number of veterans programs in business development that have disabled connected small business administration has a number of programs for service disabled connected.

Just like the Aid 8 program, women owned, hub zone, so there’s a number of programs that some folks on this call, this webinar, might qualify for other than Randolph Sheppard. And if you’re looking at business opportunities, I urge to look at all of the programs out there. There are other preference programs out there and depending on your status in life.

Now, let me say, the good thing about Randolph Sheppard is, although it is a narrow band of sort of discrete entrepreneurial services, it is a priority program which is the strongest right of first refusal. The other programs through the SBA (small business administration) are preference programs. So if you want to be a blind person in food service, vending, concessions, the priority is a very strong selling point.



Larry MuffetWhile Kevin’s taking a break here, please be thinking of some questions for him. I’m going to relay Melissa’s question to him as soon as he gets back.

Kevin WorleyOk, actually that’s what I was doing is looking at Melissa Hanson’s question. I don’t know currently if there are any Randolph Sheppard BEP locations in any schools for the blind. However, I do know that over the years sometimes the schools have been used as training location and I will tell you I’m older than I used to be but I seem to recall way back in my distant past, reading of or hearing of some small trial locations at schools for the blind.

Typically, if you’ve only got 50, 100, 150 students, and employees, you’re going to be drawing from 200-300 potential customers, and a lot of those customers come during different times, I’m not sure it’s a viable business unless it’s somehow subsidized. I’m not opposed to subsidization as long as you can make a good living.

Anyhow, long answer to your question is I am not aware of any of those types of paradigms at this particular time. Okay let me see if there’s one other then I have to move to the next parts of my presentation.



Larry MuffetKevin, Brian would like to know is the program restricted to sole business ownership.

Kevin WorleySo let me answer two. I notice there’s one on here that says the Illinois school does actually have an active Business Enterprise Program location on its premises. Thank you, Kathy. I told you, these guys on this call are going to know a lot more about this than I do. What I don’t know, I just make up and then I get corrected. So, at least Illinois does and I thought that’s the one that I recalled and there may be one other.

So, the question about sole proprietorship I think is what it is. The program is established to license one blind vendor. Now, that doesn’t mean that you can’t become incorporated. I have a corporation. It used to be said in this program that blind vendors were often told no you have to be a sole proprietor to be in the program.

Let’s put it this way, the individual holds the license to operate the location. If you decide you want to become a corporate entity, you certainly can do that. I have. I think there are some folks who are LLCs, I am not I’m a corporation. But again, the key thing to know



is that the license is for an individual, not for a company or corporation. Is there anything else and then we’ll move to the next part of this. Have you got anything else for me Larry?

Larry MuffetNo, not unless anyone has a question they’d like to use their microphone for. We don’t have any in the check box. So we can free the microphone up here for a second if anyone has a question, go ahead and jump in. otherwise, Kevin can go ahead and continue on.

Kevin WorleyOkay, so now here’s what everybody really wants to know. Can you make money in Randolph Sheppard? I mean that’s the bottom line. Folks are on here because they’re interested in business. You’re probably more interested in making money than you are in food service, vending, concessions. The Randolph Sheppard program is a means to an end I think.

There may be someone in here that has a passion for cooking or filling a vending machine and if that’s the case, Randolph Sheppard Business Enterprise Program is probably the place for you. Currently, the medium income of a blind vendor, in the last statistics



I saw, compiled by the rehabilitation services administration was about $47,000 a year.

You know, there’s all these statistics that the state and feds put together and it depends on how you look at it. There’s the average, there’s the median. I look at it this way. There are 2,300 blind people making a living in this program. We know that some of them frankly are what we call dumping ground locations. I am going to be real honest with you because I’m talking from my experience and the collective experiences of a number of my colleagues that have been around this program for about 20 years.

We know that there are folks sort of slaving away in locations that are, as I say, under the stairs in the basement of the federal building across from the men’s room, down the hall from the linen closet under the leaky pipe in the ceiling and they’re making $15,000 a year. Well, that’s where I started.

I started there and within about ten years I’m making six figures. So the question really becomes where do you want to start? Where are you willing to start? How much ambition do you have? How much imagination do you have? How much are you willing to collaborate with others? And I mean that very, very seriously. How willing are you to not get your back up and your nose out of join because it’s going to call for



diplomacy if you really want to make money in this business.

There are going to be state agency counselors that are going to come into your store and say “I don’t like the cut of your jib. I don’t like the way you face your potato chips. I don’t like the way you did this or that” so are you willing as a business owner to take their constructive criticism, not respond in a mean spirited way, learn how to use the good stuff that they counsel you and sort of nicely ignore the bad stuff.

And that really is important in business, whether it’s Randolph Sheppard or anything else. How do you relate to people? How do you, as we say at Worley enterprises, how do you build opportunity through service to others? Is there money to be made? If you have a heart of service, and I truly mean a heart of service. You want to bend over backwards to make customers, colleagues, family members like what you do.

You want to give them something of yourself. So if you have a heart of service, then there’s money to be made in Randolph Sheppard. However, if you think you can just sort of show up and wipe down some counters and fill a cash register and maybe go to Sam’s every once in a while, and you don’t really have any passion for serving others, and if you bring



no commitment to it, no imagination to it, then no there’s probably not much money to be made for you in Randolph Sheppard. And for that matter, there’s probably not much for you to be made in any kind of business realm.

One of the things that I do now is I have rooster’s men grooming centers. It’s a franchise. (Facebook/roosters/mgc), and one of the things we learn there is how important service is. And in the private sector you’re held to a count. If you don’t hit certain bench marks, if you don’t pass certain inspections, you’re going to lose your franchise. So one of the ways I think to look at Business Enterprise Programs, the Randolph Sheppard program is very analogous to a franchise.

Now, it’s not the same. You don’t have a franchise agreement, but you do have a license from the state. You don’t pay the franchise fee based on gross, but in most states, as I said earlier a set-aside, an admin fee it’s also called, based on your net profit. But what does that mean?

Well, you take in money in your cash register and your vending machines. You pay your labor. You pay cost of goods. You know, you have to pay for your burger, your lettuce, your Snickers bars, your paper goods. You have other expenses, envelopes, stamps,



phone bill, and gas to go to Sam’s. You write all that stuff off.

Whatever’s left, that is your net profit. That’s your bottom line. Well, then you have to take your set-aside percent off of that bottom line. Some states it’s three or four percent. In Colorado it’s thirteen percent. Some states it’s even higher.

We’re not going to get into that battle, but that’s the fact. Think about what I just said. We’re not going to get into that battle. If you’re a blind vendor licensed under this program, you’re going to want to actively participate with your state agency to help develop the parameters of your program. You’re licensed, it becomes your program. So to the extent you work with them, as a team, should the set-aside fee be 20%, can you run a program on 20% or 13%? And we can get in.

At some point we can have a discussion on those types of issues. But for the purposes of this call, does the Randolph Sheppard provide opportunity? I can guarantee you there are hundreds of men and women across this country for 70 years who have found great opportunity, great possibility in Randolph Sheppard. The Business Enterprise Program is mostly concessions, cafeterias, food service, and vending. But you’re the manager.



You’re the owner operator with a consultant from the state agency working with the governance of the state agency, federal legislation, and your elected Committee of Blind Vendors. Let me take some questions about because I don’t know what you all don’t know and what you want to know about the opportunities that might exist. So let me pause a second rather than me just rattle on like my good friend Senator Bennett and actually take some questions.

Larry MuffetKevin, I’ve got a question for you. This is Larry. What sort of characteristics or attributes, personal characteristics or attributes, tend to go along with somebody who’s very successful in the program? Is it people who are risk takers? Is it people with a higher level of initiative? Is it people with sort of innate math skills? What kinds of people are successful in this program?

Kevin WorleyWell, obviously you’ve pretty much answered the question, but thank you for it. I think it’s pretty much all of those things. I don’t think you have to be an extraordinary risk taker, and let me tell you why. The program provides you so much in terms of support. Think about it, they’re going to give you training,



you’re going to be able to network with peers, other blind vendors that are doing well.

You get your initial inventor, which in most states you have to pay back over a period of a year or so. You get your equipment. One way or another you get support to get your equipment repaired. You pay no utilities in most cases. You pay no rent and no lease in most cases. So to the extent that you’re a risk taker, that’s a good thing because you’re putting your sweat, blood, heart, soul, and imagination into this thing. You’re putting a period of time of your life into this thing.

And you do have to say “If I lose money, ultimately it’s on my head” on the other hand, you don’t have to be the same kind of risk taker that you have to be out in private sector business. I’ll tell you, I talked a little about, and I don’t really want to make this about me, it’s about everyone else, but I’ve had a few other businesses along the way Randolph Sheppard.

I ran a telemarketing center once for a couple of years and I like not to talk about that much because I am a risk taker and I lost a lot of money in that venture. I made money in the first couple years. I didn’t anticipate that they were going to offshore all of those telemarketing centers, send them to India. There are



a lot of things I didn’t anticipate. I didn’t anticipate that I would lose a large help desk federal contract.

So I’ll tell you right now I lost well over $300, 000 on that venture. Well that makes a guy a little gun shy to go start another private sector business. Fortunately, I had my Randolph Sheppard business that was doing fairly well at the time. So I think you have to be much more of a risk taker to open a business in the private sector. Is there an element of risk?

Well, sure. You’re giving up your time, you’re asking your family’s indulgence and forbearance, many of us have family members that support us and might be working with us. So risk I don’t think is important. I’ll tell you what it’s important, more than anything else. I think there are three things.

One: willingness to work your head off. I mean, you really do. If you think you’re going to show up in this program and sort of touch some boxes and pain by numbers and everything’s going to be groovy… you’ve got to be willing to, particularly early in the game, early in your career in this program, you’ve got to be willing to work. You really do.

You’ve got to be willing to lift that barge and tote that bail. You have to be willing to fill some vending machines and you’ve got to be willing to go to Sam’s



in the morning. You have to be willing to get up at 5:30 in the morning and go in and make the muffins. Okay and I’m telling you that’s a fact.

Any blind vendor will tell you unless you’re a lot brighter than I am, and likely you are, I never found a way to do it any better than just, any different than just hard work. That doesn’t mean if you’re a blind person you can’t construct things that work better for you.

Did I flip some burgers in my time or make biscuits and gravy in my time? Yes I did, but only when I really had to. Mostly I ran the register. I’m a totally blind guy, I didn’t feel comfortable doing those things so I constructed my business, there’s another advantage of Randolph Sheppard, you can construct a business that works better for you, working with your peers, blind vendors, family members, perhaps the state agency advisors.

And you can construct it so that you can concentrate on your strengths I think that’s one beauty of Randolph Sheppard. I’ll tell you a story, in 1997 I had a little snack bar, I actually helped the air force do the blue prints. We developed it together with the Business Enterprise Program and we involved our Committee of Blind Vendors and we developed this nice snack bar.



I was managing this snack bar probably making about $1,200 dollars a day in sales. Not great, but not bad. I’m not sure, I’m not going to do the math in my head, but I think we were making about $60,000 a year on this venture. I think somewhere in there. I don’t know. I’d have to look it up. At any rate, I had two employees.

Somehow I made these employees mad. I don’t know, maybe I didn’t give them a raise, I was disrespectful, maybe they were just a bunch of knuckleheads, I don’t know. Anyway, they thought they were going to show the blind key and they walked out on me in the middle of a breakfast rush. I had lines out the door; we had built a pretty good breakfast business.

So I’m sort of freaking out trying to run from the register back to dip up biscuits and gravy, get the toast down, pan up bacon, just deal with the things that you have to do to run a business. You know, I hadn’t been cooking much in a while. Yet, I kept the doors open, right? And good people knew, my customers knew, that I was doing everything I could possibly do to earn their trust and to provide them services.

When there got to be a lull in the service, I called up my new girlfriend, Bridget, the lovely and talented



Bridget, I said “have you ever done any cooking?” and she said “well, just at home. I’ve never really cooked professionally.” I said, “What are you doing today?” and she said “I have to go to work in a few hours.” And I said “Well, you know honey, I know we’ve only been dating a few times, but how would you like to come over and bail me out of a jam?”

She came in in 30 minutes, she bailed me out of a jam, we’ve been working together ever since, and we’ve been married for twelve years. So, you know. There are side benefits to the Randolph Sheppard program. So, one is being willing to work your head off. Two, is imagination. I cannot stress imagination.

You know, what did I do when I got in that jam? I had to think creatively. Well, gosh, I’m just dating this girl, what could it hurt to call her and see if she’ll come in to work? Imagination is so important. Don’t get into a box. Don’t say “well, the agency told me to do it this way.” Or I read an industry manual that says you have to fill the machines this way.

Be creative in business. That’s not just Randolph Sheppard. You have to imagine new cool groovy ways to market what you do so I think imagination is very important. The third thing is social, some sort of social awareness. I mention this because I’ve run into



a number of blind vendors who don’t get that they share the planet with other people.

I know a fellow, he goes down the hallway swinging his can from side to side, side to side, with, (I guess nobody ever taught him a pencil grip on his cane), but you know, I mean it’s from door to door. Of course he intimidates people. Why do they want to come and see that guy who’s carrying a big stick, right?

I know a guy that shows up every day in a Budweiser t-shirt and wonders why he doesn’t make much money. So having some notion of social norms, what other business owners do, what other folks at cash registers look like. Learn what the expectations of the sighted public are, and being willing to, to some extent, to conform to those expectations.

You may be familiar with the leadership principle that’s BLM that’s essentially “Be Like Me”. People like to do business with people that are very much like them. To the extent that you are approachable, that you make yourself amenable to their needs, their wishes, you learn what those are. I’m not saying you conform.

Look, after work, I don’t care. Go to a biker bar, it doesn’t matter to me and it won’t matter to the performance of your business. But, unless you have a



biker bar location, don’t act like that if you’re at a nice upscale office building. To the extent that you can understand how your customers act and act accordingly. That’s very important as well. Okay, other questions?

Larry MuffetBrian would like to know, he says he gets the impression that other items besides consumables are legitimate to offer for sale if the situation made it seem feasible would a business be cleared to sell apparel or gift items for example. He says he knows it would probably vary state to state but are you aware of such operations?

Kevin WorleyYes, good point. You are absolutely correct. The short answer is yes. It has to do with what is in called the permit between the state agency and the property management agency. So, for example, Don Morris in Maryland, he has a location at the United States Fire Academy where it’s under Randolph Sheppard. He’s had this location for I don’t know 15, 18, 20; time really flies, probably at least 20 years.

He doesn’t sell any consumables. And if so, it’s just a little gum or chips at the counter. He sells; it’s a gift shop, that’s exactly what it is. He sells hats, and t-shirts, keychains, and gift cards and all kinds of



things. That’s where imagination comes. For example, he has these firefighters that come from all over the country. They come in and they buy stuff from him.

He captures their name, address, and phone number. From time to time, he sends them an email and says, “Hey! Wouldn’t you like to send your girl or boy fireman, put out the fire flowers, or whatever.” I don’t know, but he really follows up with these customers. Not only do you want to think what you have, could you add apparel, could you add gifts, could you do a florist, yes… you can do those things, under the appropriate circumstances. You work with your state agency.

Look, I ran a location in the early 90s that was really, what I talked about earlier, was this little snack counter in the basement, across from the men’s room, etc. I noticed there was a lot of space in the back there and I worked a deal with the folks off the air force base with a dry cleaner.

There were a lot of officers in that building and they had to keep their uniforms up to snuff. They would drop their dry cleaning in my shop. The dry cleaner would come pick it up every day and bring it back to me and I tack 40% onto it and give the dry cleaning back to the guys.



Yes, lottery tickets, most states have lottery. In most programs, given the type of location, you can do lottery. So you absolutely can think, I absolutely hate this expression but I’ll use it, you absolutely can think outside the box, outside the lines and be imaginative. That’s that characteristic I was talking about earlier, imagination really needs to guide what you do.

One of the things that the National Association of Blind Merchants has at our blindmerhcants.org website is a thing called a customer service advantage. It’s about a 60 minute audio and it has a booklet with it that we produced eight or nine years ago and in that little audio tape that we put together with some leadership and customer service experts, it talks about flexibility, service, and some imaginative ideas.

I have gone into locations where there are signs scotch taped to the window and I say to folks, “Why would you do that? It looks like a third grader’s business, not like an adult professional entrepreneur.” And so this audio program with a little booklet and a test is available at blindmerchant.org and I think we have it.

I would also commend as a resource a two hour course taught by James [Gashel]. It’s a video and I believe it’s segmented so you can learn. You can



read part of it and listen to part of it and stop it and keep going. There’s a Randolph Sheppard quiz that comes with that.

I know Hadley had a lot of material that you can use as well. The Randolph Sheppard act is at blindmerchants.org and there are folks like John Gordon of Illinois, Nikki [Gaecose] of New Jersey, and many others across the country, that have been at this game for a long time. We would be open to mentoring or providing ideas, and getting your ideas about how we can create entrepreneurship.

Not only in Business Enterprise Program, but opportunities for blind people in business outside this program. Not only do we have ideas, but as I said earlier, we need to seek to understand where you’re coming from and what your goals and ambitions are as well. Other comments or questions for me?

Larry MuffetKevin, Craig wants to know how much a person can earn in the Business Enterprise Program before losing disability benefits.

Kevin WorleyOkay, so we’re going to go two extra hours. The, as you know, the social security income rules establish substantial gainful activity, SGA, which is an amount



of money that you cannot earn more than before losing your SSDI. Our questioner obviously is very informed because there are different rules for people under the Business Enterprise Program for Randolph Sheppard.

I’m not going to get into the weeds of those rules except to say these things as a guide. The National Federation of the Blind with Social Security Administration developed a memorandum of guidance several years ago. If you’d like that guidance, I’d be happy to get it to you. Send me an email and we’ll send it to you. It’s about four or five pages in brail so it’s only a couple pages in prin.

I don’t think it’s online. We probably should put it up there. If somebody on my team here would remind me, we’ll put it up there. What it essentially says is that these expenses that I was talking to you about early, such as the equipment, the equipment repair, management services that you get from the state licensing agency that I talked about earlier, counseling and those kinds of things.

The value of the space, for example I said you don’t pay lease space and you don’t pay utilities. Many of these costs can be deducted because you don’t pay them. They are in a sense a subsidy to you as a blind person. So many of those expenses can be deducted



in order to determine your substantial gainful activity. So think about it this way, you earned $80,000 a year. That’s your net profit after set-aside.

You have expenses that you don’t pay that you would have to pay if you weren’t a blind person. Let’s say you made $80.000 and you had expenses, un-incurred business expenses they’re called. Remember that term it’s important, un-incurred business expenses. Let’s say you have about $65,000 that you would have to pay.

Add it all up, rent, all that space can be expensive. Management services, equipment that was given to you, well then you income, for purposes of calculating Social Security about $15,000 a year. That’s going to be under SGA right? There’s a thumbnail sketch. I may have left out something and my colleagues will, I’m sure, inform me. There’s the two minute version.

The short answer is yes, some blind vendors can qualify to get SSDI benefits even if they’re over substantial Gainful Activity.

Larry MuffetWell, who else has a question for Kevin? You’ve got a real opportunity here to talk to the master so let’s feed those questions to him while we have a chance.



ArmandoYes, my name is Armando. I’m calling from Puerto Rico. I’m a retired vendor from the state of Illinois. I was in the program for about 20 years. I supported a family off of this program and would just like to say that I feel that this program, if worked correctly by the licensed vendor could substantially support a family and is probably one of the best programs available to us as blind people currently in all the states. Thank you.

Kevin WorleyYeah, so I totally and wholeheartedly agree with that. Look, it’s not for everyone. Not everyone should be in business. Some folks should be lawyers. Some folks should teach kids. Some folks should be working assembly at the Chicago Lighthouse or for IBM.

But there are a lot of folks who have created substantial opportunity as our gentleman has just articulated. Let me tell you this. I know at least three blind vendors in this country who have hit the million dollar earnings level in this program, take home dollars. Well, taxable money.

I know probably five of the vendors in Colorado who are $150,000 a year or more. Now I also know five blind vendors in Colorado who are at about $25,000. If they have initiative, and the cookie crumbles just



right, and they work hard, and they treat people with respect, and they have a commitment to work hard, they might get to do that $150,000 - $200,000 level.

There are a lot of opportunities that are out there in the military dining sector, in expanded vending. Someone asked earlier do you have a list of all the businesses that are subject to the Randolph Sheppard act?

I don’t have such a list, but if you were a business operator in this program, you could help us grow your business because even if the post office in Durango is not on the list now, you would work with all of us, the Committee of Blind Vendors the state agency and you’d say “Hey, that looks like that post office in Durango might be a good opportunity.”

Let’s pursue it together. If you have an entrepreneurial spirit then I think the sky’s the limit in this program. Are there glass ceilings to breakthrough? Sure. Are there encumbrances? Sure. Is it a bureaucracy? Absolutely it’s a bureaucracy. Someone said on the phone to me the other day, “Explain the Randolph Sheppard program in about three minutes.” I said, “Are you nuts?”

You know, you’ve got the designated state licensing agency, the Committee of Blind Vendors, and the



National Association of Blind Merchants, the Rehabilitation Services Administration. We operate our business in GSA buildings, in USPS buildings, and in DOD buildings. If those kind of acronyms and initials aren’t’ enough to intimidate, I don’t know what is.

But the facts are if you eat this elephant one bite at a time; don’t expect to understand it all day after tomorrow. We just put on foot in front of the other. It absolutely can be a mountain worth climbing and a set of challenges worth confronting. I really believe that. I’ve built a great business over 20 years which has allowed me to expand beyond Randolph Sheppard. It’s also allowed me to give back to others.

I have great pride and great satisfaction in working collaboratively with my fellow blind merchants across the country and to have national leadership opportunities in Rotary, the National Federation of the Blind, and the Catamount Environmental Institute. I wouldn’t have had those locations in any other way if I hadn’t found a way to partner my work with Randolph Sheppard with commitment and work in the national federation for the blind. To me, those are avenues that have served me well.



Larry MuffetKevin, we have a question about owning or having multiple locations. I think probably from reading your resume that that’s indeed the case. But is there an upper limit? You know, can you only have so many? How does that work.

Kevin WorleySo, I talked in the previous segment about the complexity of this program, vagaries of this program, and don’t expect to understand it overnight. The essential principle is one location for one blind vendor. However, what is the configuration of that location?

For example, we have a federal center in Denver. There are 30 buildings. There are thousands of people. So, the Committee and the state agency at one point split that federal installation up into five or six business opportunities. Over the years, we’ve negotiated with that location, which is grossing a couple million dollars a year, is one location.

One blind vendor has 80 vending machines, and Einstein Bagel, a large cafeteria, and three snack bars. Well, the governance of this program is controlled by the state agency, which has the final authority, but in the better states it is in collaboration



with your Committee of Blind Vendors. Technically, it’s one location. I think this is fair to say.

My colleagues might correct me, but technically it’s one location and one business per blind vendor. However, there are times when a state may not have enough blind vendors to fill all those locations and you Joe Opportunity Builder will say “Hey, I’ll run that snack bar. I can do that. And by the way, those vending machines over there, I’d be happy to put those under my business as well.”

So in terms of Randolph Sheppard, rule of thumb, one business, one concessions per operator. But there’s some opportunity depending on circumstance and your entrepreneurial spirit. Now, outside of the Randolph Sheppard program, you can build and business you want. Just because you have a blind vendor license, you can run your snack bar at that federal center and open a Rooster’s Men’s Grooming Center (Facebook/rooster/msc), you can open a telemarketing business, (worleyenterprises.com), you can do all those things outside the confines of the program once you get that business experience.

My son just graduated from college. He’s a blind. His name is [Nija] Worley and he came to live with us when he was twelve. Anyway, he just graduated from college. He used to tell me when he was growing up



and learning English and Brail, he’s from Eastern Europe and he used to say “I’ll never do Randolph Sheppard”.

Well as he finished his college career, he said, “So tell me more about this Randolph Sheppard.” So he thought that what he would do is get a Randolph Sheppard license and then just hire somebody to manage it and then he would just go off and do whatever he wanted to do.

I had to explain to him, look, you don’t start at the top of this game. You have to start getting up at 5:30 and making the muffins, and running the cash register, and filling vending machines and maybe going to Sam’s on weekends and you don’t start at the top. But if you start at the bottom and you have imagination and understanding of social morays, and a commitment to work hard, you can make a living at this thing.

CallerHey Kevin, just as an aside, I teach college classes on the side, business classes, and the majority of students pretty much have that opinion that they’re going to walk right out and become vice presidents of some firm. So, your son’s not the only one.



Kevin WorleyWell, fortunate for me, he just graduated and he does have a job. He found a job. He’s going to do fairly well. So, we’re happy about that because I don’t want him to come back home and I also don’t care if he’s a Randolph Sheppard guy or not.

But, I used to tell him, I said, “You know, you don’t want to be Randolph Sheppard and yet, who paid for the adoption attorneys and put the clothes on your back and food on the table and vacations that we went on?” anyway, he’s a good kid and I’m very proud of him. Other comments about Randolph Sheppard or whatever you’d like to talk about as we wrap up here?

Larry MuffetWe’ve got time for a couple more questions here, so let’s take the opportunity.

CallerI think isn’t the question more, do you believe in yourself? Whenever you go into business, that’s the first thing you have to ask yourself. Would you hire you to do this job? Isn’t that more where you have to make the first decision?

Kevin WorleySo, I absolutely agree. That really succinctly said it better than what I did in terms of understanding social



norms and the behaviors of other people. I like the way you put it, would you hire yourself? Look critically at your skill set, your attitude. I can remember coming into my location and I’d be all grumbly and upset that it wasn’t making very much money and the state agency sent me a letter that I didn’t think they should have sent me and the four cases of lettuce came in on the back dock when I only ordered one.

I’d be all grumbly and grouchy and I finally learned that you can teach yourself to smile through anything. If you make yourself smile through it, things will get better. I know it sounds very trite. I know it sounds like something out of a leadership, or an attitude development book, but it is true.

I always tell people, “Smile like you’re eating a banana sideways.” And you know what? Things will tend to get better. I know guys that approach their business with such a grumbly attitude; they’re usually not the guys or gals that are making the big bucks. They usually aren’t.

Larry MuffetKevin, Brian would like to know in your experience, has the charge of unfair competition by other business owners been an impediment to operating this particular program?



Kevin WorleyNot so much a charge of unfair competition, but encroachment, particularly by other vending food service and concessions. I answered the question earlier that we did not have a complete comprehensive list of all the locations that we would be entitled to. We’re always struggling. For example, the Social Security Administration, or the IRS, or the Department of Defense puts out a request for proposal and the state agency doesn’t see or doesn’t know about it. They don’t react in time.

Then you’ve got McDonald’s that has a location that should be Randolph Sheppard. So we’re constantly working to ensure our whole program, our whole system, is vigilant. I’ll tell you one place you get into, state buildings. Let’s say you have a cafeteria on the first floor. Then you’ve got a bunch of hot dog vendors, taco vendors, and steak sandwich wagons out in front of the building. That kind of competition can be troublesome.

I think also fighting off the efforts of the larger corporation who do everything they can to say, “Wow, the Randolph Sheppard program doesn’t know about this opportunity so we’re going to snap it up for ourselves.”



Oftentimes what we find in this program, we end up with pretty good bunch of little locations, but sometimes the corporate entities have outsmarted us to grab some of the larger earning locations. We just have to be vigilant and creative, and keep pushing forward.

Larry MuffetWe’ve got time for one more question.

BrendanHello. It’s Brendan here from England, Kevin. I’m a practitioner working in the field of Employment and Disability. I’m also a registered blind person myself. I’m interested to know how many of the BEP businesses are actually run by the individual licensee only. And, how many employ people. I wonder if you’ve got any sort of picture of that. Thanks.

Kevin WorleyThat’s a tremendous question, thank you, and greetings across the pond. Most of the 2,300 vendors operate their locations directly. Some will partner with private sector owned companies. Let’s say it’s a large, and I’m going to get to your real answer, but I want to cover this first.

Let’s say it’s a very large cafeteria that grosses $3 million, $7 million, $15 million, $20 million dollars, and



we have a few of those in the program. The state agency doesn’t have the financial resources and the blind vendor doesn’t have the credit line, then you can seek a private sector collaborator, a partner, to do a joint venture with to bring you the skillset that you might not have as a blind vendor or the line of credit. You can then take on some of those larger locations, as long as you own at least 51% of the operation.

There are some locations that we handle that way. There is no rule that says blind operators much hire other people with disabilities. There may be in certain states, we don’t in Colorado and I don’t know about other states, but I think some others do. They may say we prefer or we provide guidance that you hire other blind people or other people with disabilities.

In general, if you look at the statistics that I talked about earlier, compiled by the Rehabilitation Services Administration, blind individuals in this program hire other individuals with disabilities at a rate two and a half times that of private industry. So, I’d be happy to stack Worley Enterprises hiring people with disabilities record against General Motors, McDonald’s, or [Svetco] any day of the week.

Blind people tend to hire people with disabilities to work for them as cooks, filling vending machines, as accountants, as their cashiers, janitorial, or whatever.



We tend to hire more people with disabilities than the private sector. Does that help answer the question?

BrendanYes. That’s very useful indeed Kevin, thank you for that.

Larry MuffetKevin, I’m going to feed you one more question then I’m afraid we’re going to have to start the wrap up procedure. How would Randolph Sheppard apply to an International airport? Bob would like to know that.

Kevin WorleyThe rule of thumb is that Randolph Sheppard does not apply to most airports because most airports are owned either by a private outfit, or they’re owned by municipalities, or some other configuration. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t pursue Randolph Sheppard opportunities. Years ago, Randolph Sheppard programs used to have a lot of private sector companies, factories and that kind of thing.

If I was trying to build opportunity under Randolph Sheppard in a state, I would have no compunction against going to the airport and waiving the Randolph Sheppard Act in the manager’s face and say, “You know I’m not sure that this applies over here. But, I notice that you have three food courts here and we



should operate a magazine store or with hot dogs.” In other words, I go back to the imagination, the creativity and the commitment to work. Just because something hasn’t been done, or isn’t being done, doesn’t mean that we couldn’t try to make it happen.

In general, Randolph Sheppard doesn’t apply to airports. Having said that, our good friend David Patterson, former governor of New York, and a consultant to the National Federation for the Blind, while he was completing his term as Governor, just signed a piece of legislation which would create some opportunities at the airports in the state of New York.

Those regulations have not yet been regulated, but we’re working to ensure that there will at least be some opportunities to operate businesses owned by the blind, or under Randolph Sheppard, in the state of New York airports. I don’t know what my colleagues have found in terms of developing opportunities at airports, I just know that there aren’t many of them.

Larry MuffetKevin, I think unfortunately, sadly, we’re going to have to start wrapping this up. This has just been a wonderful seminar. I’ve learned so much and I’m really excited about what I’ve heard here today. I want to let everyone know that this seminar, like every



seminar at Hadley, will be archived on our website for your use any time around the clock.

Also, each seminar at Hadley is now available as a podcast which you can download to your computer or mobile device and listen to it at your convenience. One of the things I want to take a moment to talk about is if today’s seminar has got you interested in business or entrepreneurship, please check out the Forsythe Center for Entrepreneurship here at Hadley.

We’ve talked about the Randolph Sheppard program as far as putting a business plan together, customer service, and federal benefits, a bunch of topics have come up today. We have courses and modules in place for those. We also have some in the development stage on accounting and business taxes, a whole wealth of information that I think would really get somebody revved up and ready to go take full advantage of this program.

Kevin, I thank you for your participation today. Your questions were just outstanding. I really like the enthusiasm that all of had in taking part in this seminar. Hadley values your feedback. Please let us know what you thought about today’s seminar and give us some suggestions for future topics.



One way you can do that is by dropping us an email at [email protected]. Another way to share is by completing a short on-screen survey that I’m going to post as we conclude today. I’m going to hand the microphone back over to Kevin for some final comments. Kevin?

Kevin WorleyWell, thank you very much. First of all, thank you to Hadley. The work you’re doing is just really, really important work and you are the only outfit of its type that does it. So, folks who are advantaging from Hadley, keep doing that. They have developed a whole set of new business, a lot of introductory, business offerings so check those out.

Also I want to remind folks about BLAST, Business Leadership and Superior Training sponsored by the National Association of Blind Merchants and the National Federation of the Blind. Hadley’s been a great supporter of that three day training leadership conference.

The next one will be May 20-24 in Indianapolis. Registration is only about 160 bucks. We get low room rates and if you’re interested in business, not just Randolph Sheppard now, we’re working through the National Federation of the Blind and Entrepreneur’s Initiative to build business


mailto:[email protected]


opportunities outside of Randolph Sheppard and Hadley’s been a great partner in that area.

I’m happy to take your calls, your comments, and your emails. If we can help in any way, we’re happy to do it. Hadley and gang, thank you so much for the opportunity. I appreciate it.

Larry MuffetThanks Kevin. I want to personally thank you for just an outstanding seminar today. I want to thank everyone that took part in it. Goodbye for now.


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