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Reg's Thread... live at the speed of J azzPrintable View

mrblues

Dear REg!

Thank You for Your kindness and help, its a pleasure to learn from one of the PROests here! Its the greatest journey to see things You like tolearn from a point of view of a guy (You) who has tons of the greatest materials in his head.2 noob questions:

1st: what is that MM (Sorry, but really dont know what that means)?2nd: How do you think when reading sheet music? I mean You take a look 1st on how many bs or #s are in the sheet, then You look at therhythm, and then are you thinking in chords when You see those "dumplings" -ups notes sry- or just put Your f ingers on the exact frets? Whatis the best method in jazz (i mean in jazz there are much more accidentals than in classical music)?

thanks

laci

edhMM = Melodic Minor.

jster

Great Reg, I'm following you I think. After 12 months it's starting to sink in! One more question about this. When you say "use" this stuff, arewe supposed to imagine the bass player just plunking on an E? And wouldn't you have to talk it over with the piano player if you were going tostart going off Bb7#11 or Abmaj7#11? I have this image of you just using telepathy with the other guys in your bands and somehow everybodyinstantaneously invokes the same subs. I can understand subs for chord solos/composition. But how does it work for solos? How much do youhave to talk over with the pianist beforehand? Thanks so much.

Gramps

I don't think everyone has to play the subs unless you're reharmonizing, then give others a "heads up". I think of the subs just making theoriginal chord more complex. Am I wrong on this?

Reg

Thanks edh, yes Melodic Minor.

How many layers and what methods I use to develop changes or use of harmony.... more into my understanding of in a jazz style... depends onband. Most jazz musicians can and will hear the standard approaches, of which subs, Melodic minor, modal interchange, blue notes etc... are allpretty typical. We'll hear what's going on and adapt as we play. And even if someone is really stretching... we know how to stay on form andeither simplify, pedal or at least stay in touch with the harmonic rhythm... what ever strong weak pattern is going on and listen for clues. Jazzplayers are very good at making decisions with very little info.

Gramps is right.. if your not sure, or depending on gig...it's fairly simple to verbally say, let's use this approach, ... and yes subs still have sametonal reference(s), Reharms imply new tonal center(s) . To me maybe simply more interesting. I mean every chord or note can imply anynumbers of standard chord patterns.

OK ...so I'll put together a post of how I comp. How I have beginning references, mechanical references up and down the neck, just like how Ihave fingering that are always my default starting points. I use basic chord forms up and down the neck. I don't worry about inversions, drop 2or 3 etc... obviously I'm aware of what they are... but I'll get into my mechanics. Reg

JonnyPac

Glad to see this thread happening!

Reg

Fep might go with a different thread for this... But I'll post to start.Frank wanted to get into composing... so I talked about a basic form and harmonic idea... then I sat down and very quicklyadded a few relationships to the very basic original idea... I started with this from post above...

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Thread... live at the speed of Jazz http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/theory/22914-regs-thread-live-spe

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07-08-2012, 11:15 AM

07-08-2012, 03:02 PM

07-08-2012, 04:48 PM

07-08-2012, 10:29 PM

07-09-2012, 03:07 PM

"Hey Frank... sounds fun, will be cool to hear from your ears... I'll make somewhat simple form and then try and camouflage...

E- / A- /..../ ..../ grooveE- / A- /..../..../ different groove developed from 1st groove leading to?.../.../..../...../ longer maybe time change then pivot chord to rel. min..F#-11, new groove , longer section, hip melodylast part... something sub-Dom, bVI like.

There we go "A" "A" "B" "C", some what typical form and harmonically close. I'll try and make it a little hipper and post later. (fill in the blanks)Reg"

So here's the next step... a simple work lead sheet and I added a quick video to hear... One more time cleaning up and one down a few to go.

YouTube Video

ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you

don't have Flash installed.

fep

Cool Reg. I'm not sure I want to check your new post out yet as I'm still working on my 'homework' for this composition. Should I continuefumbling down my own path a bit, or check out what you've done? I'm trying to decide.

I got busy learning a list of tunes to play bass on a local jam session, so I haven't spent much time on the composition. I did mention to youthat I had a little bass line in my head, so I notated that and added some chords trying to keep in mind to use chords from the melodic minor.

So this is all I've got right now. And, right now my wife is dragging me off to visit the re latives.

Is this little bit on the right track?

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/6278/aa3e.png

Reg

Hey Frank... nice groove... Hey two tunes are better than one.We can both work together on both directions...Some notes on my composition process... I wanted to camouflage My simple E- to A- , so I used approach chords which also gave me moreharmonic material to work with. Somewhat general rule of comp. maybe use something twice, never three times with out introducing a newrelationship etc... harmonically, melodically or rhythmically. There are always exceptions... especially when repetition is part of a concept.

I always dig playing around with getting balance between different aspects of composition... can be location of use, actual physical time line,

sections of tune, trying to compound balance different aspects with each other. Harmony and rhythm etc.. I like to see and hear music with allaspects being part of contrapuntal concept... I'm using contrapuntal in respect to not just melodic... all parts of composition.Reg

Helgo

Hi Reg.

I know you´re not one for big self-advertsing....but after reading a lot from you here and watching quite a few of your youtube vids i wannaask: Are there any records out there with you playing on them? And do you have a website or something where we can browse them and readabout the line-ups and such??

I enjoy your playing a lot and would love to hear it in a band context...

Cheers,Helgo

whatswisdom

To add to Helgo. Reg: This is also related to the other Are Teachers Relevant thread. I dig your stuff as always. Do you teach, as in takestudents? Unfortunately I'm not in your area--if I was I'd be knocking on your door. It sounds like you are too busy gigging to have the time butI'd be interested in hearing about your take on how to get the best out of a student. (This is not counting all the helpful posts and vids youshare here.) More like: Do you dig teaching a student one-on-one? (Not meaning to go off topic here, fep. This thread is cool.)

Reg

Don't want to get into discography, sorry. The teaching thing... I give single lessons to help players get past walls etc... Academica is a world init's self. I don't know how to get the most out of students, besides the babysit game, or pushing buttons. If you don't have motivation, I would


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07-10-2012, 04:49 AM

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not be the best teacher.Reg

Helgo

Quote:

No problem... your music, your call!

greetings from germany,Helgo

jazzuki

Reg.Great thread and sorely needed.I dont know what you are talking about half the time and find everything goes too fast for me.But I'm surethat after reviewing a lot of your material it will come together some time .Thanks.

JohnRoss

Quote:

I think we should clarify this, just in case mrblues doesn't know. I believe (it isn't always easy to keep up with Reg, I think he thinks faster thanordinary mortals) Reg is not talking about the ordinary, 'classical' melodic minor you know about if you ever had piano lessons, but about the jazz melodic minor scale, what the Modern Method for Guitar calls the 'real' melodic minor. The difference is that the jazz melodic minor doesn'tvary between ascending and descending versions, so, except for the minor third, it's the same as the major scale both up and down.

mrblues

Quote:

thanks!

Buster Loaf

Yes, great thread indeed. I as well, don't know what you're talking about the other half of the time. But it I do believe it is at least the real dealand not that BS type stuff you get so often from those BS type of persons who don't gig 3 sets a day and just sit astound and BS all the time.

Dad3353

Quote:

You've been reading too many of my posts..! :o

Reg

Hey we're all full of BS... But when I don't make sense... Please slow me down and either make me explain the concept, the application orterminology . I will try and find a medium somewhere in the middle, or simply have more than one conversation about point of discussion. Imight have a few too many expectation, please make me cover... I don't mind. Reg

Jimand

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reg

Don't want to get into discography, sorry.

Originally Posted by edh

MM = Melodic Minor.

Originally Posted by J ohnRoss

I think we should clarify this, just in case mrblues doesn't know. I believe (it isn't always easy to keep up with Reg, I think he thinks faster than ordinary mortals) Reg is not talking about the ordinary, 'classical' melodic minor you know about if you ever had piano lessons, but about the jazz melodic minor scale, what the

Modern Method for Guitar calls the 'real' melodic minor. The difference is that the jazz melodic minor doesn't vary between ascending and descending versions, so,except for the minor third, it's the same as the major scale both up and down.

Originally Posted by Buster Loaf

...just sit astound and BS all the time.


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07-10-2012, 08:06 PM

07-10-2012, 10:20 PM

07-11-2012, 01:11 PM

I'm liking these 2nd f inger anchor fingerings. The dorian position lays well with the common ii7 voicing (2nd finger 6th string). The phrygian (3)and locrian (7) positions are a bit awkward, but time will get them under the fingers.

Note that each of the 7 positions contain 7 arpeggio patterns within.

I primarily use the 5 CAGED fingerings which have their own quirks (shifts).The 2nd finger anchor fingerings remind me of 3-note per string rock fingerings. Must be the stretches. (Fear of the stretch leads to Segovia

scales :-).

Thanks for being so generous with your time Reg. Many times watching your videos I've wished I could stop and ask a question. I expect thisthread will address some of my questions. If not I'll be able to ask at an appropriate point.

- Jim

AmundLauritzen

Reg, I'd like to ask you about pentatonic scales and how you use them in your playing.

Some players like to think of minor pentatonics as a minor 7th arpeggio plus a fourth. I assume this is for the sake of organization.How do you view these scales and how do you relate and apply them to the chords you are playing over? Any favorite applications and patterns that you find yourself playing?

Thank you for all you've given us so far - I'm picking up a lot of good stuff from this thread!

Kman

We are very lucky to have Reg. There is a lot here, and it's very inspirational.

fep

Quote:

Hey Reg,

Thanks so much, this is great being able to analyze a tune with the help of the composer.

My first thought is that it is interesting to see how you start a tune. You started with an overall structure and then filled in the details. That issomething I really want to develop. I think the reason I have so many little ideas that I'm hoping will become tunes is that I don't start with thestructure, I usually start with a little phrase and try to build from there.

My approach, it's kind of like hoping to build a nice house by just putting together a few bricks and mortar and hope something develops.

So, I listened to your tune, sounds real good, I hope to hear your recording with the band. It's also interesting to see how this evolved fromyour original structure sketch.

My 1st question: On the Em - Am first part, you then groove on Ab13. It sounds good, but I don't theoretically understand the AB13. Is there


I base all my fingerings off 6th string roots and use 2nd finger for those roots...which creates all 1st finger stretches. This is my starting point of reference... My mechanical method of feeling and not having to look at the neck to hear or see where I am. It works well for me.

+


Fep might go with a different thread for this... But I'll post to start.Frank wanted to get into composing... so I talked about a basic form and harmonic idea... then I sat down and very quickly added a few relationships to the very basic original idea... I started with this from post above...

"Hey Frank... sounds fun, will be cool to hear from your ears... I'll make somewhat simple form and then try and camouflage...

E- / A- /..../ ..../ groove

E- / A- /..../..../ different groove developed from 1st groove leading to ?.../.../..../...../ longer maybe time change then pivot chord to rel. min..

F#-11, new groove , longer section, hip melody last part... something sub-Dom, bVI like.

There we go "A" "A" "B" "C", some what typical form and harmonically close. I'll try and make it a little hipper and post later. (fill in the blanks) Reg"

So here's the next step... a simple work lead sheet and I added a quick video to hear... One more time cleaning up and one down a few to go.

YouTube Video

ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


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07-12-2012, 04:17 PM

07-13-2012, 11:26 AM

07-13-2012, 02:54 PM

07-13-2012, 06:09 PM

07-14-2012, 01:45 PM

some theory behind that that will help me understand?

I did some work and can see you can get an Ab13 chord from the notes of the Eb MM as it had a MM sound to my ear. Is that on the righttrack? If so, how do we get to Eb MM, that doesn't seem to be a modal interchange?

Reg

Hey Frank... Yea, generally I fill in the blanks. I usually have or hear something... and decide on form, and fill in the blanks. Different harmonic or melodicconcepts have built in compositional structural guidelines.

You can simply compose... let the pieces fall into place, I have always been on schedules... deadlines, $ and all the other BS. But that how Ibasically function... form.... organized inspiration. You can always dump the starting shape etc...

So harmonically... Yes, Em - Am starting point. I introduced the 1/2 step approach chords... which open doors to new relationships or even whatI want to use as the structural relationship devices. I used Ab as my pivot for relationships... And used 1/2 step re lationships as structuraldevice... can be functional, or by design mechanical. What I usually try and do is tie as many aspect of each together without being obvious.

Long story short... yes tonal center of Ab, with Eb melodic min as source... I simply heard as relative II- of Ab, but I could theoretically BS amuch hipper explanation... who cares. But the Eb- becoming MM does come from use of modal interchange... I basically use MI all the time.Just as many players use functional subs... use of tonic, sub-dom and dom chords as subs or addition... I use modal interchange all the time insame manor... a few more guidelines... but same thought and use process.

This is about a 30 min compositional process... I find that taking too much time with the artistic details slows the process down almost to thepoint that I lose the concept. Not always... but generally.

I have a recording session in two weeks to record, this tune and hopefully a few more... Deadlines get more done than anything. I'll post 1st

rough take.Reg

fep

Thanks Reg, I'll have to play around with those concepts. I can see that it would open a bunch of doors.

30 minutes, I can get what you're saying, it keeps it fresh. And it keeps you focused.

Yesterday, I wrote a tune and tried to do it quickly. I believe I followed your overall structure with a AABC and included a groove jam section.Other than that I wondered off on my own path. If nothing else, I think I've got a cool title. Let me know what you think. It's here:

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/showc...tml#post240662

And, oh yeah, I play to come back to that Em groove that I started and turn that into a tune.

Thanks again.

Reg

Quote:

Hey Frank... very cool, dig it. I'll dig in a little deeper later and play through...Reg

edh

Frank, very nice.

fep

Quote:

Originally Posted by fep

Thanks Reg, I'll have to play around with those concepts. I can see that it would open a bunch of doors.

30 minutes, I can get what you're saying, it keeps it fresh. And it keeps you focused.

Yesterday, I wrote a tune and tried to do it quickly. I believe I followed your overall structure with a AABC and included a groove jam section. Other than that I wondered off on my own path. If nothing else, I think I've got a cool title. Let me know what you think. It's here:

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/showc...tml#post240662

And, oh yeah, I play to come back to that Em groove that I started and turn that into a tune.

Thanks again.



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07-20-2012, 11:10 PM

07-30-2012, 04:50 PM

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1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Thanks guys, feel free to play it if you want, I think it's a fun tune. And the world needs more jazz waltzes.

Space PickleReg, would you be willing to talk about how you are able to make a living at jazz? I was surprised to read that you don't teach much and thatrock doesn't interest you. There don't seem to be that many gigs, and the ones there are don't pay.

Reg

Back in town, I'll get something posted... playing wise.In the mean time,Space pickle... That living thing is very subjective. I have quarterly checks and other sources of income, I invested. I was in LA local 47,composed and arranged. I'm in local 6 in SF Bay Area now. I don't need to teach and can play gigs I choose. Still play too many...

If your going to be session player... you still need to live in London, Nashville, LA or NY, or be well established. And yea... be able to playanything thrown in front of you... the 1st time. Join AFM and local in your area. You can still play non-contract gigs.

As far as non-contract gigs...which is what we're probably talking about.... it's fairly simple to make $1000 a week. If you don't mind tux and

playing whatever... $2000 a week... that's still very subjective as far as a good living, but most can get by.

If you can't get gigs... there's usually a reason. I play all kind of day gigs, Department stores, Macy's, chains like Trader Joe's etc... They paywell, there usually short and you can still have regular gig after. I don't play background music... We burn, and push everyone listening. Theyalmost always dig it, usually pick up lot's of names for email lists. The bottom line... you have to be able to play, (and all the skills), entertain...and be able to promote yourself... In that order.

Reg

JohnRoss

Quote:

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I've suspected for a long time that you and I are from different planets, now I know it. I probably wouldn'thave said anything if that had been 'possible' or 'feasible', but 'fairly simple?' I don't believe it. Your neck of the woods is thousands of milesfrom mine, but I imagine that even where you are, for that kind of income, you must a) be really good, b) be 110% reliable, allowing you tohave c) built up a reputation over long years, so that you d) have a whole truckload of contacts, that e) call you several times a week, becausef) there is an enormous demand for live music in your area. I don't call that 'fairly simple,' Reg.

Reg

I'm going to get into how I comp in a jazz style... there are a few different approaches... but I've made a choice as to howI approach. It's fairly simple.

As usual... I have concepts, which then take a shape or arrangement of the form of the tune. To get to that point of being able to useconcepts... you need starting points, references that become instinctive.

Here is a sample of basic movable chord forms, all based on open position with roots on 6th, 5th and 4th strings. There all 7th chords which issomewhat the starting point, that starting reference that I always relate to... at least with jazz.

You can take any form of a chord... be aware of the voicing style, how the notes are arranged, and then use that "voicing form", again thearrangement of the notes.... and use for all chords of a tune. You'll become aware of what the lead note is as well as what other lead notes areavailable from that form of voicing. Eventually you'll be able to hear and use as you choose.

If you keep the same voicing style through a passage... your creating a style or sound... when you mix different voicing styles, again yourcreating a different style or sound. Your arranging whether your aware of it or not.... It's almost like traditional voice leading, but instead of afew sets of one dimensional rules... (I'm taking it for granted we all know and understand traditional voice leading... if you don't... it's notcomplicated.) Again you have many different voicing styles which become a tool to use as you choose. You can make a lead line, a melody or agroove line on top be out front or somewhat more background like... by how you use your voicing types. Voicing styles are one of many toolswhich help create different jazz styles.

All voicing have inversions, you can play all the notes or some of the notes, whatever you choose... The root position chords... become a

Hey Frank... very cool, dig it. I'll dig in a little deeper later and play through...Reg

Originally Posted by edh

Frank, very nice.


non-contract gigs...which is what we're probably talking about.... it's fairly simple to make $1000 a week.


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07-30-2012, 07:37 PM

07-31-2012, 02:28 AM

07-31-2012, 02:50 PM

07-31-2012, 03:19 PM

reference point, a mechanical method of learning your fret board and what's available in any position.

The sample voicings I notated are somewhat vanilla, very basic but useful and for most guitar players great starting point.

One of the goals or where you want to get... is to be aware of all the aspects of comping... Generally you want to get to the point where youhave control of the lead line, next the bass motion and then the inner voices. If you have control of the bass line, you'll generally not get in theway of the bass player. And as far as implying the harmony... when you understand harmony, jazz harmony... there are many methods of implying a chord besides simply playing the 3rd and 7th. Fifty years ago maybe... I'll get into some of those methods... in next few posts.

I'll post video later tonight and play/talk through some tunes with different styles of comping...Reg

Reg

Quote:

Hey John... I've always thought all musicians are from different planets... it is a different life style. I play golf most weeks with all differenttypes... Touring musicians, local symphony and opera orchestras, shows, a ll the pits etc... and many non-contract private gig players. ( Oh yea,during the summers...teachers, the hacks) Most of us have our $ together. I am talking about pros... all of your points included. I don't believemany hobby players can cover etc... well enough to get called back.

My playings OK... but I read well, on a few instruments, can direct ensembles or bands live... can entertain with my playing as well as MCevents... but what really makes me the big bucks.... I mingle well.

OK... sorry John, I just don't take music that serious... I'm not saving lives etc... It is fa irly simple for myself and many of my friends.

Reg

Buster Loaf

Quote:

That's so cool! you are very cool and modest too!

ECHOPLEX

I think an important message is being given off here by Reg,even though he may not be aware of it.This is not aimed at anyone in particularbut it is aimed at any amateur guitarists who are thinking they are not progressing or that they just were not born to be great musicians.Oftenpeople have said to me they do not think they are ever going to be great musicians because they do not have natural ability like othermusicians like Reg do.When asked how often they play their instrument they often announce very proudly something like ,oh i do a good hourevery day.After reading REG posts you hopefully realize that he is constantly playing his music often gigging more than once a day .This is whatit takes if you want to reach the standard of a pro llike Reg,so go practice.Reg i will PM my address to you so you know where to send thecheque.

JakeAcci

Quote:

Of comparable importance is playing with other people. Unfortunately, just working on stuff in the bedroom isn't enough.

Originally Posted by J ohnRoss

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I've suspected for a long time that you and I are from different planets, now I know it. I probably wouldn't have said anything if that had been 'possible' or 'feasible', but 'fairly simple?' I don't believe it. Your neck of the woods is thousands of miles from mine, but I imagine that even where

you are, for that kind of income, you must a) be really good, b) be 110% reliable, allowing you to have c) built up a reputation over long years, so that you d) have a whole truckload of contacts, that e) call you several times a week, because f) there is an enormous demand for live music in your area. I don't call t hat 'fairly simple,' Reg.


I play golf most weeks with all different types... Touring musicians, local symphony and opera orchestras, shows, all the pits etc... and many non-contract private gig players. ( Oh yea, during the summers...teachers, the hacks) Most of us have our $ together. I am talking about pros... all of your points included. I don't

believe many hobby players can cover etc... well enough to get called back.

My playings OK... but I read well, on a few instruments, can direct ensembles or bands live... can entertain with my playing as well as MC events... but what really makes me the big bucks.... I mingle well.

OK... sorry John, I just don't take music that serious... I'm not saving lives etc... It is fairly simple for myself and many of my friends.

Reg

Originally Posted by ECHOPLEX

.This is what it t akes if you want to reach the standard of a pro llike Reg,so go practice.


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08-01-2012, 02:00 PM

08-01-2012, 02:38 PM

08-08-2012, 08:10 PM

08-08-2012, 09:08 PM

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

ECHOPLEX

Quote:

I could not agree more with you Jake,interacting with musicians is a crucial part of someones musical development.

Franklin52

For those who aren't aware of it, Reg has also a youtube channel:

Reg523's channel - YouTube

Fred Pepper

I find these videos very inspiring. They really have a positive impact on my own appoach. I find myself trying to emulate the clarity of thearticulation and the fantastic, snappy rhythmic flow.

If you are still taking suggestions Reg, I would be fascinated to hear your take on the kind of older standard that has a lot of changes,something like "All the things you are" or "The Song is you".

Cheers,

Fred.

Reg

Hey all... sorry for not checking in, this time of year is incredibly busy.

I have a list of vids to make,

1) Thought I would use last months practical group's tune... Summer Time to show some different ways to play harmonically, the tunes veryvanilla, but that gives lots of space to develop harmonic grooves, room to easily show how single chords can represent chord patterns. Thosechord patterns can develop from harmonic concepts, a mechanical way to organize which chords you use and how you use them. yada yada...

2) make vids of some of the 1st steps I use personally for both comping as well as soloing... example could be... when you use a D-7arpeggio... D, F, A, C.... keep going but use the functional extension of F maj7, F, A, C, E..... complete arpeggio of D,F,A,C,F,A,C,E. I know verysimple... but that's just opening the door to the concept.... there are many applications...

3) I'll gladly play through any tunes... If I don't know the tune, I'll just read through... I basically really only have time to record s ingle takesetc... they'll be rough. But that's how it is at gigs, You fake it as well as you can...

Anyway again sorry for not posting more...Reg

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Originally Posted by J akeAcci

Of comparable importance is playing with other people. Unfortunately, just working on stuff in the bedroom isn't enough.

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