30/11/2000

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru(Y Cofnod Swyddogol)

The National Assembly for Wales (The Official Record)

Dydd Iau 30 Tachwedd 2000

Thursday 30 November 2000

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CynnwysContents

3 Datganiad gan y LlywyddStatement by the Presiding Officer

3 Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau CymdeithasolQuestions to the Minister for Health and Social Services

14 Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes Questions to the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning

23 Cwestiynau i Bwyllgor y Tŷ Questions to the House Committee

32 Strategaeth i Hybu Iechyd a Lles Strategy to Promote Health and Wellbeing

47 Datganiad ar Flaenafon Statement on Blaenavon

63 Strategaeth i Hybu Iechyd a Lles: Parhad o’r Ddadl Strategy to Promote Health and Wellbeing: Continuation of the Debate

96 Dadl Fer: Codi Lefel ein SgiliauShort Debate: Upgrading our Skills Base

Yn y golofn chwith, cofnodwyd y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y Siambr.Yn y golofn dde, cynhwyswyd cyfieithiad o’r areithiau hynny.

In the left-hand column, the proceedings are recorded in the language in which they werespoken in the Chamber. In the right-hand column, a translation of those speeches has been

included.

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Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 9.05 a.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.The Assembly met at 9.05 a.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.

Datganiad gan y LlywyddStatement by the Presiding Officer

Y Llywydd: Cyn inni gychwyn argwestiynau, byddai’n briodol imi fynegicydymdeimlad y Cynulliad â Janet Davies ogolli ei phriod Peter. Mae Janet ynddiolchgar i’r holl Aelodau a phawb arallsydd wedi mynegi eu cydymdeimlad. Byddein dymuniadau a’n meddyliau gyda Janet ynystod yr angladd yfory, a bydd llawerohonom yn bresennol yno. Mynegafgydymdeimlad y Cynulliad â Janet yn eiphrofedigaeth.

The Presiding Officer: Before we start onquestions, it would be appropriate for me toexpress the Assembly’s sympathy to JanetDavies on the loss of her husband, Peter.Janet is grateful to all Members andeverybody else who have expressed theirsympathy. Our wishes and thoughts will bewith Janet during the funeral tomorrow,where many of us will be present. I expressthe Assembly’s sympathy to Janet in her loss.

Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau CymdeithasolQuestions to the Minister for Health and Social Services

Hybu Bwyta’n Iach ymhlith Pobl IfancPromoting Healthy Eating among the Young

C1 Dafydd Wigley: Sut mae’r Gweinidogdros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasolyn bwriadu hybu bwyta’n iach ymhlith poblifanc? (OAQ8149)

Q1 Dafydd Wigley: How does the Ministerfor Health and Social Services plan topromote healthy eating among the young?(OAQ8149)

The Minister for Health and SocialServices (Jane Hutt): We support thedevelopment of healthy eating in schools andcommunities by means of health promotionschemes in schools, school fruit tuck shopsand community food initiatives. Draftregulations on nutritional standards forschool meals will be issued for consultationshortly.

Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a GwasanaethauCymdeithasol (Jane Hutt): Yr ydym o blaiddatblygu bwyta’n iach mewn ysgolion achymunedau drwy gyfrwng cynlluniau hybuiechyd mewn ysgolion, siopau ffrwythaumewn ysgolion a mentrau bwyd cymunedol.Cyhoeddir y rheoliadau drafft ar safonaumaeth ar gyfer prydau bwyd ysgol ar gyferymgynghoriad maes o law.

Dafydd Wigley: Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddaiJane yn cytuno nad yw pobl ifanc yn aml ynsylweddoli bod bwydydd ffres yn rhatach, yniachach ac yn aml yn fwy cyfleus na’r hyn aelwir yn fwydydd cyfleus. A wnaiff hisicrhau bod yr wybodaeth honno’n cyrraeddein disgyblion ysgol a’u bod yn derbyngwybodaeth ynglŷn â sut i baratoi a choginiobwyd fel y cânt y fantais lawn ohono a’u bodfelly’n diogelu eu hiechyd?

Dafydd Wigley: I am sure that Jane wouldagree that young people often do not realisethat fresh foods are cheaper, healthier andoften more convenient than so-calledconvenience foods. Will she ensure that thatinformation reaches our school pupils andthat they receive information on how toprepare and cook food so that they gain fullbenefit from it and therefore safeguard theirhealth?

Jane Hutt: That is important. The Assemblyis leading the way in health promotionschemes in school in Wales. We have a well-

Jane Hutt: Mae hynny’n bwysig. Mae’rCynulliad yn arwain y ffordd gydachynlluniau hybu iechyd mewn ysgolion yng

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established health promoting school schemein Gwynedd. Fruit tuck shops are aninteresting way in which we can ensure thatyoung people eat fruit and involve them inthe setting up and running of tuck shops.Fruit tuck shops were piloted in areas ofsocial deprivation, as poor food and povertyare closely linked. People and young childrenin the more deprived communities are thoseleast likely to eat fruit and vegetables, whichwe promote.

Nghymru. Mae gennym gynllun ysgol hybuiechyd sefydledig yng Ngwynedd. Maesiopau ffrwythau yn ffordd ddiddorol isicrhau bod pobl ifanc yn bwyta ffrwythaua’u cynnwys wrth sefydlu a rhedeg siopau.Agorwyd siopau ffrwythau arbrofol mewnardaloedd o amddifadedd cymdeithasol, ganfod cyswllt agos rhwng bwyd gwael a thlodi.Y bobl a’r plant ifanc hynny yn y cymunedaumwy difreintiedig sydd y lleiaf tebygol ofwyta ffrwythau a llysiau, sef yr hyn ahybwn.

Food preparation and cooking is beingconsidered in terms of the curriculum. Foodhas a higher profile in Curriculum 2000. Thatshould be welcomed, as the subject hasdisappeared from our mainstream educationinterests.

Mae paratoi a choginio bwyd yn cael eiystyried yng nghyd-destun y cwricwlwm.Mae gan fwyd broffil uwch yngNghwricwlwm 2000. Dylid croesawu hynny,oherwydd bod y pwnc wedi diflannu o’ndiddordebau addysg prif ffrwd.

Mick Bates: Promoting healthy eating inschools can be assisted by offeringalternatives to fizzy drinks and sticky sweets,which are often sold in schools. Does theMinister agree that the provision of freeschool milk in Wales is an important steptowards building strong bones and reducingtooth decay?

Mick Bates: Gellir cynnal y broses o hybubwyta’n iach mewn ysgolion drwy gynnigdewisiadau amgen i ddiodydd pop a losinllawn siwgr, a werthir yn aml mewnysgolion. A yw’r Gweinidog yn cytuno boddarparu llaeth am ddim mewn ysgolion yngNghymru yn gam pwysig tuag at adeiladuesgyrn cryf a lleihau pydredd dannedd?

Jane Hutt: Mick has championed freeschool milk, which we hope to reintroducefor key stage 1 pupils from January 2001,subject to legal confirmation. It is importantthat we consider this as part of a balanceddiet of milk, fruit and vegetables. The freeschool milk scheme will make a majorcontribution when it is reintroduced toWales. It was lost, tragically, due to a formerGovernment Minister’s decision.

Jane Hutt: Mae Mick wedi ymgyrchu i gaelllaeth am ddim mewn ysgolion, y gobeithiwnei ailgyflwyno ar gyfer disgyblion cyfnodallweddol 1 o Ionawr 2001 ymlaen, ynamodol ar gadarnhad cyfreithiol. Mae’nbwysig i hyn gael ei ystyried fel rhan o ddeietcytbwys o laeth, ffrwythau a llysiau. Bydd ycynllun llaeth am ddim mewn ysgolion yngwneud cyfraniad mawr wrth gael eiailgyflwyno yng Nghymru. Fe’i collwyd oganlyniad i benderfyniad gan un o gynWeinidogion y Llywodraeth, ac roedd hyn yndrasiedi.

William Graham: You will have seen arecent campaign poster which illustrated thefirst signs of heart disease by showing ayoung child sitting in front of a televisioneating convenience food. The health visitor isa vital link for education and diet. Will yououtline the measures being taken to ensurethe full recruitment and training of healthvisitors?

William Graham: Byddwch wedi gweldposter ymgyrchu diweddar yn dangosarwyddion cynnar clefyd y galon drwyddangos plentyn ifanc yn eistedd o flaen yteledu yn bwyta bwyd parod. Mae’rymwelydd iechyd yn gyswllt hanfodol o ranaddysg a deiet. A amlinellwch y camau agymerir i sicrhau y caiff ymwelwyr iechyd eurecriwtio a’u hyfforddi’n llawn?

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Jane Hutt: The role of the health visitor isvital. The health visitor, a universalprovision, is the person that most parentstrust from the start when a new baby arrives.Health visitors are key in our Sure Startinitiative, which is rolling out throughoutWales and fulfilling important work. Thetraining of health visitors and school nursesis undergoing a review at the moment. Wehope to improve the status and numbers ofhealth visitors in Wales.

Jane Hutt: Mae rôl yr ymwelydd iechyd ynhanfodol. Yr ymwelydd iechyd, sydd ynddarpariaeth gyffredinol, yw’r person ymae’r rhan fwyaf o rieni yn ymddiried ynddoo’r cychwyn ar enedigaeth babi newydd. Maeymwelwyr iechyd yn rhan allweddol o fenterCychwyn Cadarn, a gyflwynir yn raddolledled Cymru gan gyflawni gwaith pwysig.Mae hyfforddiant ymwelwyr iechyd a nyrsysysgol yn cael ei adolygu ar hyn o bryd.Gobeithiwn wella statws a chynyddu nifer yrymwelwyr iechyd yng Nghymru.

Mynd i’r Afael â Chyffredinrwydd Clefyd y GalonTackling the Prevalence of Heart Disease

Q2 Janet Ryder: How is Jane Hutt tacklingthe prevalence of heart disease in Wales?(OAQ8159)

C2 Janet Ryder: Sut mae Jane Hutt ynmynd i’r afael â chyffredinrwydd clefyd ygalon yng Nghymru? (OAQ8159)

Jane Hutt: The Wales implementation planfor the national service framework oncoronary heart disease sets out a range ofproposed measures to reduce heart disease.The plan was discussed by the Health andSocial Services Committee last month and iscurrently out for public consultation.

Jane Hutt: Mae cynllun gweithredu Cymruar gyfer fframwaith y gwasanaeth gwladol arglefyd y galon yn nodi amrywiaeth o fesurauarfaethedig i leihau clefyd y galon.Trafodwyd y cynllun gan y Pwyllgor Iechyda Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol fis diwethafac mae’n destun ymgynghoriad cyhoeddus arhyn o bryd.

Standard 1 in the framework documentfocuses on reducing the incidence of riskfactors for coronary heart disease in thepopulation. The action proposed is thedevelopment, implementation and monitoringof evidence-based programmes to address theimpact of tobacco use, diet and physicalactivity, targeted at the most disadvantagedcommunities in Wales.

Mae Safon 1 yn y ddogfen fframwaith yncanolbwyntio ar leihau amlygrwyddffactorau risg ar gyfer clefyd y galon yn yboblogaeth. Y camau a gynigir yw datblygu,gweithredu a monitro rhaglenni yn seiliedigar dystiolaeth i ymdrin ag effaith defnyddiotybaco, deiet a gweithgarwch corfforol, athargedu hynny at y cymunedau mwyafdifreintiedig yng Nghymru.

Standard 2 ensures that everyone at high riskof developing coronary heart disease, and allthose who have been diagnosed as having thedisease, should have access to riskassessment and be offered an appropriatetreatment plan.

Mae Safon 2 yn sicrhau y dylai pawb sydd ârisg fawr o ddatblygu clefyd y galon, aphawb sydd wedi cael diagnosis yn nodi eubod yn dioddef o’r clefyd, gael mynediad iasesiad risg a chael cynnig cynllun priodol odriniaeth.

Janet Ryder: I am sure that you agree thattreatment, as well as prevention, is importantif Wales is to reduce its high mortality rate.What specific investment have you made toimprove treatment facilities in north Wales,so that patients requiring simple proceduresor diagnosis do not have to travel long

Janet Ryder: Yr wyf yn siŵr y cytunwchbod trin, yn ogystal ag atal, yn bwysig os ywCymru am leihau ei chyfradd marwolaethuchel. Pa fuddsoddiad penodol a wnaethoch iwella’r cyfleusterau triniaeth yng ngogleddCymru, fel nad oes yn rhaid i gleifion syddangen triniaeth syml neu ddiagnosis deithio

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distances or wait too long? ymhell neu aros yn rhy hir?

Jane Hutt: As you know, part of the £25million invested in the health service thisyear was for cardiac services, and £6 millionof it has been allocated specifically to heartdisease to ensure that facilities are improved.That will include improvements in northWales. North Wales Health Authority willpublish details of how it spends that extramoney and I will ensure, Janet, that youreceive the full information.

Jane Hutt: Fel y gwyddoch, yr oedd rhan o’r£25 miliwn a fuddsoddwyd yn y gwasanaethiechyd eleni ar gyfer gwasanaethau cardiac, adyrannwyd £6 miliwn ohono yn benodol iglefyd y galon i sicrhau gwell cyfleusterau.Bydd hynny’n cynnwys gwelliannau yngngogledd Cymru. Bydd Awdurdod IechydGogledd Cymru yn cyhoeddi manylion amsut y bydd yn gwario’r arian ychwanegolhwnnw ac fe sicrhaf, Janet, y derbyniwch yrwybodaeth lawn.

Kirsty Williams: The partnership agreementand the Health and Social ServicesCommittee’s proposed budget for this yearhighlight a new health inequalities fund.Given that there is a great deal of inequalityin the provision of preventative measures andtreatment for people with heart disease inWales, do you not think that some of thesefunds could go towards targeting thecommunities with the worst statistics?

Kirsty Williams: Mae’r cytundebpartneriaeth a chyllideb arfaethedig yPwyllgor Iechyd a GwasanaethauCymdeithasol eleni yn nodi cronfaanghydraddoldebau iechyd newydd. O gofiobod anghydraddoldeb sylweddol o randarparu mesurau ataliol a thriniaeth i bobl âchlefyd y galon yng Nghymru, oni chredwchy gellid defnyddio rhywfaint o’r cronfeyddhyn i dargedu’r cymunedau gyda’r ystadegaugwaethaf?

Jane Hutt: When I spoke to the NHSConfederation recently, I suggested that weshould target our health inequalities fundspecifically according to needs that weidentify. As well as tackling inequalities inhealth status, such as the higher incidence ofheart disease in the Valleys, we should alsotarget funding at those communities. Thenational service framework for coronaryheart disease provides an ideal vehicle for usto do that. It is about prevention andrehabilitation as well as providing theimportant cardiac services.

Jane Hutt: Pan siaradais â Chydffederasiwnyr NHS yn ddiweddar, awgrymais y dylemdargedu ein cronfa anghydraddoldebauiechyd yn benodol yn ôl yr anghenion anodir. Yn ogystal â mynd i’r afael aganghydraddoldebau mewn statws iechyd,megis y nifer uwch o achosion o glefyd ygalon yn y Cymoedd, dylem hefyd dargeduarian at y cymunedau hynny. Darpara’rfframwaith gwasanaeth gwladol ar gyferclefyd coronaidd y galon gyfrwng delfrydolinni wneud hynny. Mae’n ymwneud ag atalac adfer yn ogystal â darparu’r gwasanaethaucardiac pwysig.

David Melding: I talked to a cardiac surgeonon Saturday and he told me that 70 per centof patients who present for treatment aresmokers. Is this not a huge lesson for us?

David Melding: Siaradais â llawfeddygcardiac ddydd Sadwrn a dywedodd wrthyffod 70 y cant o’r cleifion a gaiff eu trin ynysmygu. Onid yw hyn yn wers enfawr inni?

Jane Hutt: It is a huge lesson for us, David,and that is why it is important that weunderstand that this framework is not simplyabout the vital cardiac services that we needto provide. This year, £1.75 million has beenallocated to the smoking prevention andcessation programme. It is important that we

Jane Hutt: Mae’n wers enfawr inni, David,a dyna pham ei bod yn bwysig inni ddeallnad yw’r fframwaith ond yn ymwneud â’rgwasanaethau cardiac hanfodol y mae angeninni eu darparu. Eleni, dyrannwyd £1.75miliwn i’r rhaglen atal a rhoi’r gorau iysmygu. Mae’n bwysig inni weithio gyda’n

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work with our young people throughinitiatives such as smoke-free classcompetitions and tobacco action groups, aswell as the new smoking cessation servicesthat we are setting up in Wales. It isimportant that this Assembly makes theconnection between smoking cessation andreducing heart disease.

pobl ifanc drwy fentrau megis cystadlaethauyn y dosbarth ar beidio ag ysmygu a grwpiaugweithredu tybaco, yn ogystal â’rgwasanaethau newydd ar gyfer rhoi’r gorau iysmygu yr ydym wrthi’n eu sefydlu yngNghymru. Mae’n bwysig i’r Cynulliad hwnnodi’r cysylltiad rhwng rhoi’r gorau iysmygu a lleihau clefyd y galon.

Llawdriniaethau Gosod Clun NewyddHip Replacement Operations

Q3 Glyn Davies: How many hipreplacement operations would £380,000fund? (OAQ8135)

C3 Glyn Davies: Sawl llawdriniaeth gosodclun newydd y gellid ei chynnal gyda£380,000? (OAQ8135)

Jane Hutt: The sum of £380,000 would fundapproximately 88 hip replacements, based onan average cost for this procedure. The in-patient cost for a hip replacement varies, andthe most up-to-date information is containedin the report ‘Activity and Costs in WelshHospitals’, a copy of which I have placed inthe Library.

Jane Hutt: Byddai £380,000 yn ariannu tuag88 o lawdriniaethau gosod clun newydd, ynseiliedig ar gost gyfartalog y weithdrefn hon.Mae’r gost ar gyfer gosod clun i gleifionmewnol yn amrywio, a chynhwysir yrwybodaeth ddiweddaraf yn yr adroddiad‘Gweithgarwch a Chostau yn YsbytaiCymru’. Yr wyf wedi gosod copi o hynny yny Llyfrgell.

9:15 a.m.

Information on cost has been gathered indiagnosis related groups, which is astandardised costing tool. The cost associatedwith each diagnosis related group variesacross Wales. Hip replacements are includedwithin the range of procedures identifiedunder hip and femur procedures.

Casglwyd gwybodaeth am gost yn ôl grwpiaudiagnosis, sef dull costio safonol. Amrywia’rcostau sydd yn gysylltiedig â phob grŵpdiagnosis ledled Cymru. Cynhwysir gosodclun newydd o fewn yr amrywiaeth odriniaethau a nodwyd o dan driniaethau cluna morddwyd.

Glyn Davies: Thank you for that helpfulanswer. Will you apologise to the hundredsof people who are suffering as they wait forexpensive treatments on the NHS because ofthe massive waste of money, calculated bythe National Audit Office to be £380,000,arising directly out of our dithering FirstMinister’s futile decision to put the newAssembly building on hold last March?

Glyn Davies: Diolch ichi am yr atebdefnyddiol hwnnw. A ymddiheurwch i’rcannoedd o bobl sydd yn dioddef wrth iddyntaros am driniaeth gostus ar yr NHSoherwydd y gwastraff arian enfawr, ycyfrifwyd ei fod yn £380,000 gan y SwyddfaArchwilio Genedlaethol, sydd yn deillio’nuniongyrchol o benderfyniad ofer ein PrifWeinidog anwadal fis Mawrth diwethaf ibeidio â bwrw ymlaen ag adeilad newydd yCynulliad?

Jane Hutt: I do not know how this relates tothe cost of hip replacement operations.People who are waiting for hip replacementswant to hear when the new money that hasbeen invested in the health service will makea difference. I can tell you, Glyn, that that

Jane Hutt: Ni wn beth yw’r cysylltiadrhwng hyn a chost llawdriniaethau gosodclun newydd. Mae pobl sydd yn aros am glunnewydd am glywed pryd y bydd yr ariannewydd a fuddsoddwyd yn y gwasanaethiechyd yn gwneud gwahaniaeth. Gallaf

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difference is being made because last monththe out-patient wait for orthopaedic treatmentwas down by 6 per cent, the in-patient andday-case treatment waiting list was down by300, with 4 per cent fewer waiting over sixmonths in the case of out-patients and for 12months in the case of in-patients and daycases. That is what people in Wales want tohear. They do not want to hear this pettypoliticking about how we are spending ourmoney. They want to know that we arespending our money on reducing the wait forvital hip operations and other orthopaedicprocedures.

ddweud wrthych, Glyn, y caiff gwahaniaethei wneud oherwydd yr oedd hyd y cyfnodaros i gleifion allanol am driniaethorthopedig fis diwethaf wedi gostwng 6 ycant, yr oedd y rhestr aros am driniaeth igleifion mewnol ac achosion dydd wedigostwng o 300, gyda 4 y cant yn llai yn arosdros chwe mis yn achos cleifion allanol acam 12 mis yn achos cleifion mewnol acachosion dydd. Dyna beth y mae pobl yngNghymru am ei glywed. Nid ydynt amglywed y gwleidydda plentynaidd hwn amsut y gwariwn ein harian. Maent am wybodein bod yn gwario ein harian ar leihau’rcyfnod aros ar gyfer llawdriniaethau clunhanfodol a thriniaethau orthopedig eraill.

Peter Black: Given that the waiting timesfor hip replacements are the result ofemergency pressures and delayed discharge,will you say how the extra money allocatedin the partnership agreement to tackle thoseissues can help to reduce the waiting lists forhip replacements?

Peter Black: O gofio bod yr amserau aros argyfer gosod clun newydd yn ganlyniadpwysau brys ac oedi wrth ryddhau cleifion, addywedwch sut y gall yr arian ychwanegol aglustnodwyd yn y cytundeb partneriaeth ifynd i’r afael â’r materion hynny helpu ileihau’r rhestrau aros ar gyfer gosod clunnewydd?

Jane Hutt: It all ties up; you are right, Peter.There is a direct influence on how wemanage our winter pressures—we are in thewinter months now—and how we ensure thatwe do not lose that drive down on ourwaiting times, particularly for orthopaedicprocedures. An extra £17.5 million to tacklewinter pressures has been provided. Thatmeans more beds, more primary carefacilities and the flu immunisation campaignreaching the target groups. I am confidentthat that investment will make a differencethis winter and enable us to keep drivingdown the waiting times in Wales.

Jane Hutt: Yr ydych yn iawn, Peter; maepopeth yn gysylltiedig. Mae dylanwaduniongyrchol ar sut yr ydym yn rheoli einpwysau gaeaf—yr ydym ym misoedd y gaeafyn awr—a sut y sicrhawn na chollwn yfrwydr i ostwng amseroedd aros, yn arbennigar gyfer gweithdrefnau orthopedig.Darparwyd £17.5 miliwn yn ychwanegol ifynd i’r afael â phwysau’r gaeaf. Golygahynny fwy o welyau, mwy o gyfleusteraugofal sylfaenol a’r ymgyrch imiwneiddiorhag ffliw yn cyrraedd y grwpiau targed. Yrwyf yn hyderus y bydd buddsoddi yn gwneudgwahaniaeth y gaeaf hwn ac yn ein galluogi ibarhau i ostwng yr amseroedd aros yngNghymru.

Brian Hancock: Following theannouncement that £15 million has been lostfrom the collection of prescription charges,with which Plaid Cymru—The Party ofWales does not agree, what steps will youtake—

Brian Hancock: Yn dilyn y cyhoeddiad ycollwyd £15 miliwn wrth gasglu taliadaupresgripsiwn, yr anghytuna Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales â hwy, pa gamau agymerwch—

The Presiding Officer: Order. I have madeit clear on many occasions that questionsshould relate to the issue before us.

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Yr wyf wedi egluro sawlgwaith y dylai cwestiynau fod yn berthnasoli’r mater dan sylw.

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Brian Hancock: I was thinking of the£380,000 referred to in the question. Whatsteps will the Minister take to ensure that thesystem is reinforced so that pharmacies’ staffare not tax collectors?

Brian Hancock: Yr oeddwn yn meddwl amy £380,000 y cyfeiriwyd ato yn y cwestiwn.Pa gamau fydd y Gweinidog yn eu cymryd isicrhau yr atgyfnerthir y system fel na ddawstaff fferyllfeydd yn gasglwyr trethi?

Jane Hutt: I will attempt to twist this aroundto meet Glyn Davies’s original questionabout hip replacements. Last week, Iannounced our measures to reduce dentalcharges fraud, and I mentioned that we hadinstituted procedures for collection ofprescription charges in pharmacies. It is vitalthat every public penny allocated to thehealth service is spent on services, and thatwe tackle fraud as well as deal with the costof prescriptions by freezing prescriptioncharges from next April. That is a key policyin the partnership agreement, which I knowwill be welcomed in this Chamber.

Jane Hutt: Rhoddaf gynnig ar droi’r ateb ifodloni cwestiwn gwreiddiol Glyn Davies amlawdriniaethau gosod clun newydd. Yrwythnos diwethaf, cyhoeddais ein cynlluniaui leihau twyll taliadau deintyddol, achrybwyllais ein bod wedi sefydlugweithdrefnau ar gyfer casglu taliadaupresgripsiwn mewn fferyllfeydd. Mae’nhanfodol y caiff pob ceiniog a ddyrennir i’rgwasanaeth iechyd ei gwario ar wasanaethau,ac yr awn i’r afael â thwyll yn ogystal agymdrin â chost presgripsiynau drwy rewitaliadau presgripsiynau o fis Ebrill nesaf.Mae hwnnw’n bolisi allweddol yn ycytundeb partneriaeth, a gwn y’i croesewiryn y Siambr hon.

The Presiding Officer: Questions 4 and 6from Janet Davies have been withdrawn.

Y Llywydd: Tynnwyd cwestiynau 4 a 6 ganJanet Davies yn ôl.

Rhoi Statws Ymddiriedolaeth i Grwpiau Iechyd LleolGiving Local Health Groups Trust Status

Q5 David Melding: When will local healthgroups be given the choice of taking on truststatus? (OAQ8099)

C5 David Melding: Pryd y caiff grwpiauiechyd lleol ddewis a ydynt am dderbynstatws fel ymddiriedolaeth? (OAQ8099)

Jane Hutt: The future development of localhealth groups must proceed in a way thatcontinues to meet Welsh circumstances.Local health groups are working closely withtheir host health authorities to agree a cleardevelopment plan, clarify delegatedresponsibilities, set out planned newresponsibilities and to provide a frameworkon which they can build further. These issuesare being considered in NHS Wales and theprimary care strategy. There is no push fortrust status in Wales.

Jane Hutt: Rhaid i ddatblygiad grwpiauiechyd lleol yn y dyfodol fynd rhagddo mewnffordd sydd yn parhau i fodloni anghenionCymru. Mae grwpiau iechyd lleol yncydweithio’n agos gyda’u hawdurdodauiechyd cysylltiedig i gytuno ar gynllundatblygu clir, egluro cyfrifoldebaudirprwyedig, nodi cyfrifoldebau newydd agynlluniwyd a darparu fframwaith y gallantadeiladu ymhellach arno. Ystyrir y materionhyn yn NHS Cymru a’r strategaeth gofalsylfaenol. Nid oes pwysau i gael statwsymddiriedolaeth yng Nghymru.

David Melding: The Audit Commission’sreport on local health groups in Walesidentified that 20 per cent of those groupswanted the choice of obtaining trust status.Local health groups in England have that

David Melding: Nododd adroddiad yComisiwn Archwilio ar grwpiau iechyd lleolyng Nghymru bod 20 y cant o’r grwpiauhynny am gael y dewis o gael statwsymddiriedolaeth. Mae grwpiau iechyd lleol

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choice. Why is it not available in Wales? yn Lloegr yn cael y dewis hwnnw. Pam nadyw ar gael yng Nghymru?

Jane Hutt: As I said, David, this is part ofthe NHS Wales strategy and the primary carestrategy that the Assembly will debate earlyin the new year. I am reflecting the majorityview that we have received. David waspresent when the Health and Social ServiceCommittee discussed this, and the strongview was that this involves services andevolution. We must not get hung up onstructures. That is the key point. We are notmoving automatically towards trust status.We must consider how local health groupscan deliver and have a more powerful role.

Jane Hutt: Fel y dywedais, David, mae’nrhan o strategaeth NHS Cymru a’rstrategaeth gofal sylfaenol y bydd yCynulliad yn ei thrafod ar ddechrau’rflwyddyn newydd. Adlewyrchaf y farnfwyafrifol a dderbyniasom. Yr oedd Davidyn bresennol pan drafododd y PwyllgorIechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ymater, a’r farn gryf oedd bod hyn yncynnwys gwasanaethau ac esblygu. Rhaidinni beidio â chanolbwyntio’n ormodol arstrwythurau. Dyna’r pwynt allweddol. Nisymudwn yn awtomatig tuag at statwsymddiriedolaeth. Rhaid inni ystyried sut ygall grwpiau iechyd lleol gyflwyno a chaelrôl fwy pwerus.

Tom Middlehurst: Is Jane aware of thewidespread disappointment in Alyn andDeeside at the recent announcement by NorthWales Health Authority of the proposedclosure of Meadowslea and Dobshillrehabilitation hospitals? Will she ensure thatfull consideration will be given to theprovision of much needed communityhospital facilities in Alyn and Deeside,particularly serving the large communities ofBuckley and Penyffordd? Will she alsoensure that the views of the local healthgroup will be central to those considerations?

Tom Middlehurst: A yw Jane ynymwybodol o’r siom cyffredinol yn Alyn aGlannau Dyfrdwy yn sgîl cyhoeddiaddiweddar Awdurdod Iechyd Gogledd Cymruynghylch y bwriad i gau ysbytai adferMeadowslea a Dobshill? A wnaiff hi sicrhauy rhoddir ystyriaeth lawn i ddarparucyfleusterau ysbyty cymunedol sydd euhangen yn fawr yn Alyn a Glannau Dyfrdwy,yn arbennig i wasanaethu cymunedau mawrBwcle a Phenyffordd? A wnaiff hi hefydsicrhau y bydd safbwyntiau’r grŵp iechydlleol yn ganolog i’r ystyriaethau hynny?

Jane Hutt: Tom will know that Barry Jones,the local MP, and I met the residents andcommunity councillors of those communitiesearlier this year. We discussed issuesconcerning services in that area. The healthauthority’s decision follows extensiveconsultation led by the community healthcouncil, which approved changes includingan increase in services in DeesideCommunity Hospital and Wrexham MaelorHospital. I agree that we need to considerservices, particularly in the Buckley area.That was brought to my attention at thatmeeting earlier this year.

Jane Hutt: Fel y gŵyr Tom, bu i BarryJones, yr AS lleol, a minnau gwrdd âthrigolion a chynghorwyr cymuned ycymunedau hynny yn gynharach eleni.Trafodasom faterion yn ymwneud âgwasanaethau yn yr ardal honno. Dawpenderfyniad yr awdurdod iechyd yn sgîlymgynghoriad eang o dan arweiniad y cyngoriechyd cymuned, a gymeradwyoddnewidiadau gan gynnwys cynnydd mewngwasanaethau yn Ysbyty CymunedolGlannau Dyfrdwy ac Ysbyty WrecsamMaelor. Cytunaf fod angen inni ystyriedgwasanaethau, yn arbennig yn ardal Bwcle.Tynnwyd fy sylw at hynny yn y cyfarfodhwnnw yn gynharach eleni.

David Lloyd: Fel Gweinidog dros Iechyd aGwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, a oes gan Jane

David Lloyd: As Minister for Health andSocial Services, does Jane have a clear vision

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weledigaeth glir ynghylch datblygiadgrwpiau iechyd lleol?

on the way forward regarding thedevelopment of local health groups?

Jane Hutt: It is important that we bear inmind our discussions in the Health andSocial Services Committee withrepresentatives from local health groups andhealth authorities. We must consider this as amatter of evolution and developing apartnership. Yesterday, I launched the jointflexibilities that arise from the Health Act1999, where health services and localgovernment can work closer together andpool their finances to lead commissioning inhealth and social care. We are movingforward in partnership in Wales, withoutbeing too prescriptive about how thatpartnership develops. It is important thatlocal health groups know that they have astrong future in terms of commissioning andof their role in ensuring that we have aprimary care led health service. At this stage,it is not necessarily appropriate or wise tostart talking about structures, reorganisationsand more trusts. I know that your party, Dai,does not support that either. We must ensurethat we progress with the development oflocal health groups according to their wishes.

Jane Hutt: Mae’n bwysig inni gofio eintrafodaethau yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd aGwasanaethau Cymdeithasol gydachynrychiolwyr o grwpiau iechyd lleol acawdurdodau iechyd. Rhaid inni ystyried hynfel mater o esblygu a datblygu partneriaeth.Ddoe, lansiais y cyd-hyblygrwydd sydd yndeillio o Ddeddf Iechyd 1999, lle gallgwasanaethau iechyd a llywodraeth leolgydweithio’n agosach a chyfuno eucyllidebau i arwain gwaith comisiynu ymmaes iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol. Symudwnymlaen mewn partneriaeth yng Nghymru,heb fod yn rhy benodol am y ffordd ydatblyga’r bartneriaeth honno. Mae’n bwysigbod grwpiau iechyd lleol yn gwybod bodganddynt ddyfodol cadarn yn nhermaucomisiynu a’u rôl wrth sicrhau bod gennymwasanaeth iechyd a nodweddir yn bennaf ganofal sylfaenol. Ar hyn o bryd, nid yw oreidrwydd yn briodol nac yn ddoeth dechrausôn am strwythurau, ad-drefnu a mwy oymddiriedolaethau. Gwn nad yw eich plaidchi, Dai, yn cefnogi hynny ychwaith. Rhaidinni sicrhau ein bod yn mynd rhagddo iddatblygu grwpiau iechyd lleol yn unol â’udymuniadau.

Adrannau Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (Diwallu’r Galw dros Fisoedd y Gaeaf)Social Service Departments (Meeting Demands over the Winter Months)

C7 Elin Jones: A wnaiff Jane Huttddatganiad byr ynghylch paratoadau’radrannau gwasanaethau cymdeithasol argyfer diwallu’r galw dros fisoedd y gaeaf?(OAQ8156)

Q7 Elin Jones: Will Jane Hutt make a briefstatement on the preparations made by socialservice departments to meet demand over thewinter months? (OAQ8156)

Jane Hutt: Social services departments wereasked to follow the guidance issued in thesummer by the emergency pressurestaskforce. They have been working inpartnership with health authorities to devisewinter planning arrangements. I haverecently met local authority representativesfrom each health authority area to reviewprogress, and have written to authorities tounderline the importance of planningarrangements. We have introducedarrangements to monitor delayed dischargefrom hospital and the district audit service is

Jane Hutt: Gofynnwyd i adrannau’rgwasanaethau cymdeithasol ddilyn yrarweiniad a gyhoeddwyd yn ystod yr haf gany tasglu pwysau brys. Buont yn gweithiomewn partneriaeth ag awdurdodau iechyd ilunio trefniadau cynllunio ar gyfer y gaeaf.Yn ddiweddar cyfarfûm â chynrychiolwyrawdurdodau lleol o bob ardal awdurdodiechyd i adolygu cynnydd, ac ysgrifennais atawdurdodau i danlinellu pwysigrwyddtrefniadau cynllunio. Cyflwynasomdrefniadau i fonitro oedi wrth ryddhaucleifion o’r ysbyty ac mae’r gwasanaeth

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currently undertaking a review ofpreparedness. We are maintaining contactwith all 22 authorities so that we obtaininformation on issues relating to emergencypressures. The authorities are represented onmy winter pressures team.

archwiliadau dosbarth wrthi ar hyn o bryd yncynnal arolwg o barodrwydd. Yr ydym yncadw mewn cysylltiad â phob un o’r 22awdurdod er mwyn cael gwybodaeth arfaterion sydd yn ymwneud â phwysau brys.Mae cynrychiolwyr o’r awdurdodau yn fynhîm pwysau gaeaf.

Elin Jones: A yw’r Gweinidog yn cytuno ybyddai darpariaeth ar alw digonol owasanaethau cymdeithasol y tu hwnt i oriaugwaith arferol yn lleihau’r galw i anfon yrhenoed i ysbyty yn ddiangen ac yn lleihau’rpwysau ar welyau mewn ysbytai?

Elin Jones: Does the Minister agree thatsufficient on-call provision of social servicesoutside normal working hours would reducethe demand to send elderly people to hospitalunnecessarily and would reduce the burdenon beds in hospitals?

Jane Hutt: That is an extremely importantpoint that emerged quickly following lastyear’s winter pressures. The development ofrapid response teams that provide a serviceout of hours as well as during office hoursprovides the emergency contact to enablepeople to stay at home rather than end up inhospital.

Jane Hutt: Mae hwnnw’n bwynt pwysigiawn a ddaeth i’r amlwg yn gyflym yn dilyny pwysau yn ystod y gaeaf y llynedd. Maedatblygu timau ymateb cyflym sydd yndarparu gwasanaeth y tu hwnt i oriau gwaitharferol yn ogystal ag yn ystod oriau swyddfayn darparu’r cyswllt brys i alluogi pobl i arosgartref yn hytrach na gorfod mynd i’r ysbyty.

9:25 a.m.

Our emergency pressure plans are aboutkeeping people well, warm and supported athome. That requires the work of socialservices as well as GPs and nurses in thecommunity to ensure that if people areadmitted to hospital, we are alreadydiscussing how they can return home andhave support in their home and in theircommunity. It is about ensuring that socialservices work with the health service at thesharp end. As a result of the Health Act1999, the flexibilities will enable us to dothat.

Mae ein cynlluniau pwysau brys ynymwneud â chadw pobl yn iach, yn gynnes arhoi cymorth iddynt yn eu cartrefi. Maehynny’n gofyn am waith y gwasanaethaucymdeithasol yn ogystal â meddygon teulu anyrsys yn y gymuned er mwyn sicrhau osderbynnir pobl i’r ysbyty, ein bod eisoes yntrafod sut y gallant ddychwelyd adref a chaelcymorth yn eu cartref ac yn eu cymuned.Mae’n ymwneud â sicrhau bod ygwasanaethau cymdeithasol yn gweithiogyda’r gwasanaeth iechyd ble y mae’r angenmwyaf. O ganlyniad i Ddeddf Iechyd 1999,bydd yr hyblygrwydd yn ein galluogi i wneudhynny.

David Davies: Does the Minister, therefore,recognise the important role of the privatesector in ensuring that demand is met overthe busy winter months? Will she ensure thatpatient demand is put before political dogmaand that the private sector is utilisedwhenever that is appropriate?

David Davies: A yw’r Gweinidog, felly, yncydnabod rôl bwysig y sector preifat wrthsicrhau y caiff y galw ei ateb dros fisoeddprysur y gaeaf? A wnaiff hi sicrhau y rhoddirblaenoriaeth i ofynion cleifion yn hytrach nadogma gwleidyddol ac y defnyddir y sectorpreifat lle bynnag y bo hynny’n briodol?

Jane Hutt: I do not know where thispolitical dogma comes from. It only seems tocome from you and your side of the

Jane Hutt: Ni wn o ble y daw’r dogmagwleidyddol hwn. Ymddengys mai dim ondgennych chi a’ch ochr chi o’r Siambr y daw.

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Chamber. As far as I am concerned, theindependent sector has a key role to play andnot just during the winter pressures. We hada good debate a few weeks ago about theCare Standards Act 2000, in which we notedthe value of the independent private sector’srole in the provision of nursing homes. Someof the additional money that comes throughto health authorities and social services willfund the packages to enable people to moveinto the nursing homes’ sector when they areready. That is there in black and white interms of the figures and the money that isgoing through but, also, the independentprivate sector in nursing home care knowswhat we do to support them.

Yn fy marn i, mae gan y sector annibynnolran allweddol i’w chwarae ac nid yn unig ynystod pwysau’r gaeaf. Cawsom ddadl dda raiwythnosau yn ôl ynghylch Deddf SafonauGofal 2000, lle y nodwyd gwerth rôl y sectorpreifat annibynnol wrth ddarparu cartrefinyrsio. Bydd rhywfaint o’r arian ychwanegola gaiff yr awdurdodau iechyd a’rgwasanaethau cymdeithasol yn ariannu’rpecynnau i alluogi pobl i symud i’r sectorcartrefi nyrsio pan fyddant yn barod. Maehynny wedi’i nodi’n ysgrifenedig o ran yffigurau a’r arian a gaiff ei drosglwyddo ond,hefyd, mae’r sector preifat annibynnol ymmaes gofal cartrefi nyrsio yn ymwybodol o’rhyn a wnawn i’w cynnal.

Ann Jones: Jane, do you agree that theprivate sector plays a role in the emergencywinter pressures taskforce and will youcongratulate the north Wales area for thevital part that the independent private sectorplays in that and in the planning issues?Perhaps David should come to see the workthat is done with the independent privatesector in north Wales.

Ann Jones: Jane, a gytunwch fod y sectorpreifat yn chwarae rhan yn y tasglu pwysaugaeaf brys ac a longyfarchwch ardal gogleddCymru am y rhan hanfodol a chwaraea’rsector preifat annibynnol yn hyn o beth ac yny materion cynllunio? Efallai y dylai Davidddod i weld y gwaith sydd yn mynd rhagddogyda’r sector preifat annibynnol yngngogledd Cymru.

Jane Hutt: The independent sector in northWales has set up a helpline that will workdirectly with the health authorities so that itcan inform them when they have bedsavailable. The health authorities and the localauthorities can liaise with them directly. Thatis a good example of the independent sectorwork.

Jane Hutt: Sefydlodd y sector annibynnolyng ngogledd Cymru linell gymorth a fyddyn gweithio’n uniongyrchol gyda’rawdurdodau iechyd i’w hysbysu pan fyddgwelyau ar gael ganddynt. Gall yrawdurdodau iechyd a’r awdurdodau lleoldrafod yn uniongyrchol â hwy. Mae hynny’nenghraifft dda o waith y sector annibynnol.

The independent sector plays a key rolethroughout Wales, not just with regard towinter pressures but all year round with theprovision of services.

Chwaraea’r sector annibynnol ran allweddolledled Cymru, nid yn unig o ran pwysau’rgaeaf ond drwy gydol y flwyddyn wrthddarparu gwasanaethau.

Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol OesQuestions to the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning

Darpariaeth ar gyfer Disgyblion sydd wedi’u Gwahardd yn BarhaolProvision for Permanently Excluded Pupils

Q1 Ron Davies: What is the Minister forEducation and Lifelong Learning’sassessment of the provision currently beingmade for pupils who have been permanentlyexcluded? (OAQ8052)

C1 Ron Davies: Beth yw asesiad yGweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oeso’r ddarpariaeth a wneir ar hyn o bryd argyfer disgyblion sydd wedi’u gwahardd ynbarhaol? (OAQ8052)

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The Minister for Education and LifelongLearning (Jane Davidson): Local educationauthorities have a duty to make arrangementsfor the provision of suitable education atschool, or otherwise, for pupils who havebeen permanently excluded. Althoughcurrent levels in types of provision vary, wehave required local education authoritiesunder National Assembly for Wales circular3/99 Pupil Support and Social Inclusion totake action by September 2002 to ensure thatall pupils who are excluded for more than 15days receive full time and appropriateeducation. Recent information on thealternative provision made for permanentlyexcluded pupils show that most are eitherintegrated into a mainstream or specialschool, placed in a pupil referral unit orprovided with home tuition.

Y Gweinidog dros Addysgu a Dysgu GydolOes (Jane Davidson): Mae dyletswydd arawdurdodau addysg lleol i wneud trefniadauar gyfer darparu addysg addas yn yr ysgol,neu fel arall, ar gyfer disgyblion sydd wedi’ugwahardd yn barhaol. Er yr amrywia lefelaucyfredol y mathau o ddarpariaeth, mae’nofynnol i awdurdodau addysg lleol o dangylchlythyr 3/99 Cynulliad CenedlaetholCymru, Cynnal Disgyblion a ChynhwysiantCymdeithasol weithredu erbyn mis Medi2002 i sicrhau y derbynia pob disgybl awaherddir am fwy na 15 niwrnod addysgllawn amser a phriodol. Dengys gwybodaethddiweddar am y ddarpariaeth amgen a wneirar gyfer disgyblion a waherddir yn barhaol ycaiff y rhan fwyaf ohonynt eu hintegreiddio iysgol brif ffrwd neu ysgol arbennig, eu gosodmewn uned cyfeirio disgyblion neu ydarperir tiwtoriaeth yn y cartref iddynt.

Ron Davies: Is it not the case that provisionoften falls far below acceptable standards?Does the Minister recognise the great dangerthat unless adequate provision is made forpupils who have been permanently excluded,the underlying causes of the problems whichhave led to unacceptable behaviour in thefirst place are likely to be exacerbated? Is theMinister giving active consideration toissuing new guidelines to local authorities,which would draw their attention to theproblem of young boys, in particular, whohave been excluded and warn the authoritiesthat permanent exclusion from school shouldbe a trigger to ensure that full, proper andadequate provision is made and not used asan excuse for them to wash their hands ofintractable problems?

Ron Davies: Onid yw’n wir fod yddarpariaeth yn aml yn llawer is na’r safonauderbyniol? A yw’r Gweinidog yn cydnabod yperygl mawr y gallai’r hyn a achosodd yproblemau a arweiniodd at ymddygiadannerbyniol yn y lle cyntaf waethygu onigynigir darpariaeth ddigonol ar gyferdisgyblion sydd wedi’u gwahardd ynbarhaol? A yw’r Gweinidog yn ystyriedcyhoeddi canllawiau newydd i awdurdodaulleol, a fyddai’n tynnu eu sylw yn arbennig atbroblem bechgyn ifanc sydd wedi’ugwahardd ac yn rhybuddio’r awdurdodau ydylai gwahardd yn barhaol o’r ysgol fod ynsbardun i sicrhau y cynigir darpariaeth lawn,cywir a digonol ac na chaiff ei ddefnyddio felesgus iddynt droi eu cefnau ar broblemauanodd?

Jane Davidson: I agree that we have a majorproblem and that is why we have set anambitious target to reduce the exclusions bya third by 2002. The reason that we havegone for 2002 is that it will take time to putthe appropriate measures into place. We areon track for achieving that reduction. Wehave over £3 million of grants for educationsupport and training funding this year toexamine issues related to school attendanceand behaviour. That will increase to nearly£10 million next year, which acknowledges

Jane Davidson: Cytunaf fod gennymbroblem fawr a dyna pam ein bod wedi gosodtarged uchelgeisiol i sicrhau gostyngiad odraean mewn gwaharddiadau erbyn 2002. Yrheswm dros ddewis 2002 oedd y bydd yncymryd amser i sefydlu mesurau priodol. Yrydym ar y llwybr cywir i gyflawni’rgostyngiad hwnnw. Mae gennym dros £3miliwn o grantiau i ariannu cymorth addysg ahyfforddiant eleni i archwilio materion syddyn ymwneud â phresenoldeb yn yr ysgol acymddygiad. Bydd hynny’n cynyddu i bron

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the interest that the Government and theCommittee have shown in this issue.

£10 miliwn y flwyddyn nesaf, sydd yncydnabod y diddordeb a ddangosodd yLlywodraeth a’r Pwyllgor yn y mater hwn.

Gareth Jones: Sut y bydd y Ddeddf HawliauDynol yn effeithio ar y ddarpariaeth a wneirar gyfer disgyblion sydd wedi’u gwahardd ynbarhaol?

Gareth Jones: How will the Human RightsAct affect the provision that is made forpupils who have been permanently excluded?

Jane Davidson: I cannot give you a detailedanswer on that at the moment, but I will behappy to write to you about it.

Jane Davidson: Ni allaf roi ateb manwl ichiar hyn o bryd, ond byddaf yn fwy na pharod iysgrifennu atoch ynglŷn â hynny.

Gwasanaethau Addysg ym MhowysEducation Services in Powys

Q2 The Leader of the WelshConservatives (Nick Bourne): Will JaneDavidson make a statement on educationservices in Powys? (OAQ8102)

C2 Arweinydd y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig(Nick Bourne): A wnaiff Jane Davidsonddatganiad ar wasanaethau addysg ymMhowys? (OAQ8102)

Jane Davidson: School education isprovided by Powys County Council andfurther education is provided by ColegPowys. Pupils’ attainment in Powys is abovethe Welsh average. In 2000, 55 per cent ofpupils obtained five general certificate ofsecondary education grades A to C,compared to the Welsh average of 49 percent; 87 per cent of pupils obtained fiveGCSE grades A to G compared to the Welshaverage of 85 per cent. The results ofnational curriculum tests at key stages 1, 2and 3 are not yet available for 2000. In 1999,pupils in Powys performed above the Welshaverage at all stages and in all subjects. I paymy personal tribute to all those pupils inPowys whose performance was announcedyesterday, because there is clearly a superbeducation system in the county and the pupilsare doing well.

Jane Davidson: Darperir addysg ysgol ganGyngor Sir Powys a darperir addysg bellachgan Goleg Powys. Mae cyrhaeddiaddisgyblion ym Mhowys yn uwch nachyfartaledd Cymru. Yn 2000, enillodd 55 ycant o’r disgyblion bum tystysgrifgyffredinol addysg uwchradd graddau A i C,o’i gymharu â chyfartaledd Cymru o 49 ycant; enillodd 87 y cant o’r disgyblion bumTGAU gradd A i G o’i gymharu âchyfartaledd Cymru o 85 y cant. Nid ywcanlyniadau profion y cwricwlwmcenedlaethol yng nghyfnodau allweddol 1, 2a 3 ar gyfer 2000 ar gael eto. Yn 1999,perfformiodd disgyblion ym Mhowys ynuwch na chyfartaledd Cymru ym mhobcyfnod a phwnc. Hoffwn dalu teyrngedbersonol i’r holl ddisgyblion hynny ymMhowys y cyhoeddwyd canlyniadau euperfformiad ddoe, gan ei bod yn amlwg bodsystem addysg ardderchog yn y sir a bod ydisgyblion yn gwneud yn dda.

The community consortia in Powys havemade a good start for education and trainingin planning for integrated post-16 provision.

Mae’r consortia cymunedol ym Mhowyswedi gwneud dechrau da ar gyfer addysg ahyfforddiant wrth gynllunio ar gyferdarpariaeth ôl-16 integredig.

Nick Bourne: I would like to join you incongratulating the above averageperformance in Powys. One problem thatPowys has is its small, excellent rural

Nick Bourne: Hoffwn ymuno â chi wrthlongyfarch y perfformiad uwch na’rcyfartaledd ym Mhowys. Un broblem syddgan Powys yw ei ysgolion bach, gwledig

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schools—the problem being in theirsmallness and the rurality, not theirexcellence. Have you thought about having aconsistent approach throughout Wales? Wedo not have a co-ordinated approach at themoment, and the minimum size varies fromarea to area. Have you had any thoughts onthat?

rhagorol—y broblem yw eu maint a’r naturwledig, nid eu rhagoriaeth. A ydych wediystyried sefydlu ymagwedd gyson ledledCymru? Nid oes gennym ymagweddgydlynol ar hyn o bryd, ac mae’r isafswmmaint yn amrywio o ardal i ardal. Beth yweich barn am hynny?

Jane Davidson: As you heard in the‘Queen’s speech’ that Rhodri made lastweek, we have made a particularcommitment to look at small schools in ruraland urban areas. That is not only within theterms of the partnership agreement, but interms of this year also. I am pleased that theCommittee is considering issues related tothe supply of school places at the momentand has already heard evidence from theSmall Schools Association. We in theAssembly want to keep small schools going,and consider other ways of contributing toany space available in small schools, perhapsto increase their community input generally.

Jane Davidson: Fel y clywsoch yn ‘araith yFrenhines’ gan Rhodri yr wythnos diwethaf,gwnaethom ymrwymiad penodol i edrych arysgolion bach mewn ardaloedd gwledig athrefol. Nid yw hynny o fewn termau’rcytundeb partneriaeth yn unig, ond ynnhermau eleni hefyd. Yr wyf yn falch bod yPwyllgor wrthi’n ystyried materion sydd ynymwneud â’r cyflenwad o lefydd ysgol arhyn o bryd a’i fod eisoes wedi clywedtystiolaeth gan y Gymdeithas Ysgolion Bach.Yr ydym ni yn y Cynulliad am gynnalysgolion bach, ac ystyried ffyrdd eraill ogyfrannu at unrhyw le sydd ar gael mewnysgolion bach, efallai er mwyn cynyddumewnbwn eu cymunedau yn gyffredinol.

Finally, research has been conducted onsmall schools in Ceredigion. I want toconsider that research in terms of how it canbe applied to other areas in Wales.

Yn olaf, cynhaliwyd ymchwil ar ysgolionbach yng Ngheredigion. Yr wyf am ystyriedyr ymchwil honno yn nhermau sut y gellir eichymhwyso i ardaloedd eraill yng Nghymru.

Kirsty Williams: Next Tuesday, PowysCounty Council will begin to consider thefuture of two of those very small schools, inLibanus and in Trecastle. Can you give acommitment today that this partnershipGovernment will move forward on that ruralschools strategy, and is committed to keepingsmall, rural community schools open?

Kirsty Williams: Ddydd Mawrth nesaf,bydd Cyngor Sir Powys yn dechrau ystyrieddyfodol dwy o’r ysgolion bach iawn hynny,yn Libanus ac yn Nhrecastell. A allwchwneud ymrwymiad heddiw y bydd yLlywodraeth bartneriaeth hon yn symud ystrategaeth ysgolion gwledig honno ymlaen,a’i bod yn ymrwymedig i gadw ysgolioncymuned bach, gwledig ar agor?

Jane Davidson: I have already stated that weare committed to looking at the whole issueof small schools. I was pleased at last year’sdecision not to close Libanus. This meansthat there are other opportunities of lookingat the way we deal with small schools. Asyou know, the authority is looking at itspolicy on school closures. I will be interestedin the outcome of that review.

Jane Davidson: Datganais eisoes ein bod ynymrwymedig i ystyried mater ysgolion bachyn ei gyfanrwydd. Yr oeddwn yn falch panbenderfynwyd y llynedd i beidio â chauLibanus. Golyga hyn fod cyfleoedd eraill oystyried y ffordd yr ydym yn delio agysgolion bach. Fel y gwyddoch, mae’rawdurdod yn ystyried ei bolisi ar gauysgolion. Bydd gennyf ddiddordeb yngnghanlyniad yr adolygiad hwnnw.

Going back to your question of last week, I Gan ddychwelyd at eich cwestiwn yr

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have agreed to come and see some of theseschools in Powys.

wythnos diwethaf, cytunais i ddod i weld rhaio’r ysgolion hyn ym Mhowys.

Cynog Dafis: A yw Cyngor Sir Powys wedibod mewn cysylltiad â chi i drafod sefyllfaariannol gwasanaeth addysg y sir ar gyfer yflwyddyn nesaf? Mae cyngor Powys yndweud y bydd diffyg o £937,000 yn ei gyllidy flwyddyn nesaf. Er mwyn cynnal ei sailbresennol a bodloni ymrwymiadau megiscyflogau athrawon, gofynion anghenionarbennig, ac yn y blaen, a chyda gofynioneraill am dwf, bydd diffyg o £1.8 miliwn. Sutyn y byd y gallwch esbonio sefyllfa o’r fathpan fo sôn am gynyddu’r gyllideb addysg ynsylweddol yng Nghymru?

Cynog Dafis: Has Powys County Councilbeen in touch with you to discuss thefinancial situation of the county’s educationservices for next year? Powys council saysthat there will be a shortfall of £937,000 inits budget next year. If it is to maintain itscurrent position of strength, and meetcommitments such as teachers’ wages,special needs requirements, and so on, andwith the other requirements for growth, therewill be a shortfall of £1.8 million. How onearth can you explain that sort of situationwhen there is talk of a substantial increase inthe education budget in Wales?

Jane Davidson: This goes back to thecentral tenet that we always refer to in thisChamber: the decision of how education isfunded is a matter for the local authority. Itdecides how much it will put into education.We agreed a revamped spending assesmentformula in this Chamber for this year, thatredistributes money in a way that isacceptable to the majority of AssemblyMembers. In any redistribution there arewinners and losers. I am confident thatPowys’s commitment to education will meanthat the quality of education in the countywill continue.

Jane Davidson: Mae hyn yn dychwelyd at ygred ganolog y cyfeiriwn ati’n gyson yn ySiambr hon: mater i’r awdurdod lleol ywpenderfynu sut y caiff addysg ei ariannu. Yrawdurdod sydd yn penderfynu faint i’w roi iaddysg. Cytunasom ar fformwla asesugwariant newydd yn y Siambr hon ar gyfereleni, sydd yn ailddosbarthu arian mewnffordd sydd yn dderbyniol i fwyafrifAelodau’r Cynulliad. Wrth ailddosbarthubydd pobl ar eu hennill ac yn colli. Yr wyf ynhyderus y bydd ymrwymiad Powys i addysgyn golygu y bydd ansawdd yr addysg yn y siryn parhau.

9:35 a.m.

Datblygu Meysydd Llafur Cymreig ar gyfer Disgyblion Ysgol yng NghymruDeveloping Welsh Curricula for School Pupils in Wales

C3 Cynog Dafis: A wnaiff Jane Davidsonddatganiad ar ddatblygiad meysydd llafurCymreig ar gyfer disgyblion ysgol yngNghymru? (OAQ8168)

Q3 Cynog Dafis: Will Jane Davidson makea statement on the development of Welshcurricula for school pupils in Wales?(OAQ8168)

Jane Davidson: The revised nationalcurriculum for Wales was debated andapproved by the Assembly on 19 January2000 and implemented in September 2000. Itwas the first to have been developed inWales and designed to meet the distinctivecharacteristics and educational needs inWales. You will be aware that it took placeafter a two-year review. I am delighted,although not surprised, that it has been so

Jane Davidson: Trafodwyd achymeradwywyd y maes llafur cenedlaetholdiwygiedig ar gyfer Cymru gan y Cynulliadar 19 Ionawr 2000 ac fe’i gweithredwyd ymMedi 2000. Hwn oedd y cyntaf i gael eiddatblygu yng Nghymru ac fe’i cynlluniwydi gwrdd â’r nodweddion neilltuol a’ranghenion addysgiadol yng Nghymru.Byddwch yn ymwybodol i hynny ddigwyddar ôl adolygiad dwy flynedd. Yr wyf wrth fy

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warmly welcomed by Assembly Membersand teachers throughout Wales. In ‘PuttingWales First’ we have made a commitment topilot the Welsh baccalaureate. I am sure thatyou were pleased to hear Edwina Hart’sannouncement yesterday of £600,000 for thatpilot in 2001-02, which will cover the set-upcosts.

modd, er nad wyf yn synnu, iddo gael eigroesawu mor frwd gan Aelodau’r Cynulliadac athrawon ledled Cymru. Yn ‘RhoiCymru’n Gyntaf’ yr ydym wedi ymrwymo igynnal cynllun peilot o’r fagloriaethGymreig. Yr wyf yn siŵr eich bod yn falch oglywed Edwina Hart ddoe yn cyhoeddi ybydd £600,000 ar gael ar gyfer y cynllunpeilot hwnnw yn 2001-02, a fydd yn cwrddâ’r costau sefydlu.

Cynog Dafis: Croesawaf y cyhoeddiadynglŷn â’r fagloriaeth Gymreig. A yw Janeyn ymwybodol bod adolygiad yn digwydd ofeysydd llafar Saesneg a llenyddiaethSaesneg ar gyfer TGAU? Dim ond ar ôlcwblhau’r meysydd llafar drafft ym Mehefin2000 y rhoddwyd gwybod i AwdurdodCymwysterau, Cwricwlwm ac Asesu Cymru.A yw’n cytuno y dylid mynd ati ar unwaithyn awr i lunio maes llafur penodol i Gymru afyddai’n cynnwys, er enghraifft, llenyddiaethEingl-Gymreig fel elfen bwysig o fewnllenyddiaeth Saesneg? Yn ogystal, a yw’nfodlon cyfarwyddo ACCAC i gydweithiogyda Chyd-bwyllgor Addysg Cymru iddechrau ar y gwaith pwysig hwn ar fyrder?

Cynog Dafis: I welcome the announcementregarding the Welsh baccalaureate. Is Janeaware that a review is underway of Englishlanguage and literature curricula for GCSE?It was only after completing the draftcurricula in June 2000 that theQualifications, Curriculum and AssessmentCouncil for Wales was informed. Does sheagree that we should now proceed at once todevelop a specific curriculum for Wales thatwould include, for example, Anglo-Welshliterature as an important element of Englishliterature? In addition, is she prepared toinstruct ACCAC to work with the WelshJoint Education Committee so that thisimportant work can commence as a matter ofurgency?

Jane Davidson: There has been a two-yearreview and it was the first to be conducted inWales, and wholly for Wales. That isreflected in distinctly Welsh elements of theprogrammes of study, for example, Welshhistory, Welsh geography, Welsh literature,Welsh art and Welsh music. It has beenwarmly welcomed across Wales and I amcontent with the present situation.

Jane Davidson: Bu adolygiad dwy flynedd ahwn oedd y cyntaf i gael ei gynnal yngNghymru, ac yn gyfan gwbl ar gyfer Cymru.Adlewyrchir hynny mewn elfennau o’rrhaglenni astudiaeth sydd yn benodolGymreig, er enghraifft, hanes Cymru,daearyddiaeth Cymru, llenyddiaeth Cymru,celf Cymru a cherddoriaeth Cymru. Fe’icroesawyd yn gynnes ledled Cymru ac yr wyfyn fodlon â’r sefyllfa bresennol.

David Melding: Does the Minister agreethat matters relating to racial awareness,especially following the Macpherson report,need to be mainstreamed into the curriculumand contained in subjects such as history,English and geography?

David Melding: A yw’r Gweinidog yncytuno bod angen i faterion sydd ynymwneud ag ymwybyddiaeth hiliol, ynarbennig yn dilyn adroddiad Macpherson,gael eu cyflwyno i brif ffrwd y maes llafura’u cynnwys mewn pynciau megis hanes,Saesneg a daearyddiaeth?

Jane Davidson: Yes. One issue that theAssembly has considered across the range ofits services over the last few months is howwe integrate basic principles about rights,gender, and ethnicity in all that we do. I amhappy to look at the curriculum to ensure that

Jane Davidson: Ydwyf. Un mater aystyriwyd gan y Cynulliad ar draws ystod eiwasanaethau dros yr ychydig fisoedddiwethaf yw sut yr integreiddiwnegwyddorion sylfaenol ynglŷn â hawliau,rhyw, ac ethnigrwydd ym mhopeth a wnawn.

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is considered in that context. Yr wyf yn fodlon edrych ar y maes llafur isicrhau y caiff hynny ei ystyried yn y cyd-destun hwnnw.

Sefydliadau yng Nghymru (Anfantais Gystadleuol yn y Farchnad Addysg Uwch)Institutions in Wales (Competitive Disadvantage in the Higher Education Market)

Q4 Jocelyn Davies: What action is JaneDavidson taking to ensure that institutions inWales are not at a competitive disadvantagewithin the broader higher education market?(OAQ8126)

C4 Jocelyn Davies: Pa gamau y mae JaneDavidson yn eu cymryd i sicrhau nad ywsefydliadau Cymru yn wynebu anfantaisgystadleuol o fewn y farchnad addysg uwchehangach? (OAQ8126)

Jane Davidson: As stated in our partnershipagreement, we are committed to establishinga strong future for the Welsh highereducation sector by producing a 10-yearstrategy for adequately funded developmentand expansion. Funding for the HigherEducation Funding Council for Wales will beincreased by £16 million by 2003-04. That isin addition to the excellent settlement thesector received in 2000-01 from thecomprehensive spending review.

Jane Davidson: Fel y nodwyd yn eincytundeb partneriaeth, yr ydym ynymrwymedig i sefydlu dyfodol cryf ar gyfery sector addysg uwch yng Nghymru drwygynhyrchu strategaeth 10 mlynedd ar gyferproses ddatblygu ac ehangu a ariennir ynddigonol. Cynyddir yr arian ar gyfer CyngorCyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru £16 miliwnerbyn 2003-04. Mae hynny yn ychwanegol aty setliad rhagorol a dderbyniodd y sector yn2000-01 o’r adolygiad cynhwysfawr owariant.

The Assembly is also allocating a further £10million per annum, available under theknowledge exploitation fund, to boost thewealth creating capabilities of higher andfurther education institutions in Wales. Themoney will be used to accelerate theexploitation of research and development andother knowledge and expertise within ourinstitutions. That will help the institutions tomaximise their contribution to wealth, jobcreation and economic development inWales.

Mae’r Cynulliad hefyd yn dyrannu £10miliwn ychwanegol y flwyddyn, sydd ar gaelo dan y gronfa datblygu gwybodaeth, ermwyn rhoi hwb i allu sefydliadau addysguwch a phellach yng Nghymru i greucyfoeth. Defnyddir yr arian i gyflymu’rbroses o ymelwa ar ymchwil a datblygiad agwybodaeth ac arbenigedd arall o fewn einsefydliadau. Bydd hynny yn helpu’rsefydliadau i sicrhau’r cyfraniad mwyafposibl i gyfoeth, creu swyddi a datblygueconomaidd yng Nghymru.

Jocelyn Davies: Do you agree that thecompetitive market in education is damagingall sectors? Can you explain why youpublished school league tables yesterday?That is a practice created by the Tories andshamefully pursued by Labour. I remind youthat you assured Pauline Jarman at the lastSouth East Wales Regional Committeemeeting that you would no longer name andshame schools. Will you undertake to abolishthis practice immediately because itdemoralises teachers and pupils?

Jocelyn Davies: A gytunwch fod y farchnadgystadleuol mewn addysg yn niweidio pobsector? A allwch esbonio pam ycyhoeddasoch dablau cynghrair ysgolionddoe? Mae hynny’n arfer a grëwyd gan yTorïaid, ac y dilynwyd ei drywydd yngywilyddus gan Lafur. Fe’ch atgoffaf ichisicrhau Pauline Jarman yng nghyfarfoddiwethaf Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-ddwyrainna fyddech mwyach yn enwi a chywilyddioysgolion. A ymgymerwch i ddiddymu’r arferhwn ar unwaith gan ei fod yn digalonniathrawon a disgyblion?

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Jane Davidson: School league tables werepublished yesterday. That is, you call themschool league tables. You must rememberthat the Welsh Office and now the Assemblyhave never published league tables. Theyhave always published school managementperformance data.

Jane Davidson: Cyhoeddwyd tablaucynghrair ysgolion ddoe. Hynny yw, yrydych chi’n eu galw’n dablau cynghrairysgolion. Dylech gofio na chyhoeddodd ySwyddfa Gymreig a bellach y Cynulliaderioed dablau cynghrair. Maent bob amserwedi cyhoeddi data perfformiad rheoliysgolion.

You will also be aware of a fact that youhave conveniently chosen to forget, unlessyou have not been listening to the news overthe last two days, namely that I am concernedabout the blunt application of data that isonly related to external examination results. Iam committed to school improvement and,like my predecessor, I want to consider waysof looking at a value-added measure in thesystem. That includes whether or not weshould consider how we documentperformance for primary schools—this is inthe public domain, but different from the waywe document performance for secondaryschools—and whether or not we can find away to track the improvement of pupils fromthe point at which they enter the school.

Byddwch hefyd yn ymwybodol o ffaith yrydych wedi dewis ei hanghofio yn gyfleus,oni bai na fuoch yn gwrando ar y newyddiondros y deuddydd diwethaf, sef fy mod ynpoeni am y ffordd y caiff data sydd dim ondyn ymwneud â chanlyniadau arholiadauallanol ei gymhwyso’n ddiseremoni. Yr wyfyn ymrwymedig i wella ysgolion ac, fel fyrhagflaenydd, yr wyf am ystyried ffyrdd oedrych ar fesur o ychwanegu gwerth yn ysystem. Mae hynny’n cynnwys pa un addylem ystyried sut y dogfennwnberfformiad ar gyfer ysgolion cynradd aipeidio—mae hyn yn llygad y cyhoedd, ondmae’n wahanol i’r modd y dogfennwnberfformiad ar gyfer ysgolion uwchradd—apha un a allwn ddod o hyd i ffordd o olrhaingwelliant disgyblion o’r pwynt panddechreuant yn yr ysgol.

David Davies: I congratulate the Minister forcontinuing the excellent Conservative policyof naming and shaming schools that fail. Wedo not mind what you call league tables. Aslong as you continue with the ConservativeParty’s excellent policies, we will supportyou.

David Davies: Llongyfarchaf y Gweinidogam barhau â’r polisi Ceidwadol rhagorol oenwi a chywilyddio ysgolion sydd yn methu.Nid oes gwahaniaeth gennym beth a alwchdablau cynghrair. Cyn belled ag y parhewchâ pholisïau rhagorol y Blaid Geidwadol,fe’ch cefnogwn.

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Jane Davidson: It is important to respond tothat in a way that considers how divided theConservative Party is on this matter. I sat at atable with a Conservative Member ofParliament, Nigel Evans, only two nightsago, when he reflected that we did not havevalue-added components, and that theyshould be included in the future. I ask theWelsh Conservatives to reflect on how bluntthe instrument that we have at the momentand on what could be appropriate data for thefuture. I want an open consultation on thisand I will be looking for contributions fromMembers, parents, teachers, unions,governors, schools and local educationauthorities on what they consider to be thebest presentation of data for our pupils inWales. As Minister for Education andLifelong Learning, I have a commitment toall pupils and schools in Wales. TheConservative Party never showed thatcommitment in establishing the currentsystem.

Jane Davidson: Mae’n bwysig ymateb ihynny mewn modd sydd yn ystyried pa morrhanedig yw’r Blaid Geidwadol ar y materhwn. Eisteddais ar fwrdd gydag AelodSeneddol Ceidwadol, Nigel Evans, dim ondddwy noson yn ôl, pan ddywedodd nad oeddgennym elfennau ychwanegu gwerth, ac ydylid eu cynnwys yn y dyfodol. Gofynnaf iGeidwadwyr Cymru ystyried pa mor ddi-awch yw’r offeryn sydd gennym ar hyn obryd a’r hyn a allai fod yn ddata priodol argyfer y dyfodol. Yr wyf am gaelymgynghoriad agored ar hyn a byddaf ynedrych am gyfraniadau gan Aelodau, rhieni,athrawon, undebau, llywodraethwyr,ysgolion ac awdurdodau addysg lleol ar yrhyn a ystyriant fel y ffordd orau o gyflwynodata ar gyfer ein disgyblion yng Nghymru.Fel Gweinidog Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes,mae gennyf ymrwymiad i bob disgybl acysgol yng Nghymru. Ni ddangosodd y BlaidGeidwadol erioed yr ymrwymiad hwnnwwrth sefydlu’r system bresennol.

Ymchwiliad Annibynnol i Galedi ac Ariannu MyfyrwyrIndependent Investigation into Student Hardship and Funding

Q5 Peter Black: When will Jane Davidsonbe in a position to announce the membershipand terms of reference of the independentinvestigation into the issue of studenthardship and funding in Wales? (OAQ8048)

C5 Peter Black: Pryd y bydd Jane Davidsonyn gallu cyhoeddi aelodaeth a chylch gwaithyr ymchwiliad annibynnol i galedi ac ariannumyfyrwyr yng Nghymru? (OAQ8048)

Jane Davidson: I will make a statement toPlenary on 5 December on the terms ofreference and membership of theindependent investigation into studenthardship and funding in Wales. I will thenreport on the timing of the investigation tothe Education and Lifelong LearningCommittee on 13 December.

Jane Davidson: Gwnaf ddatganiad i’rCyfarfod Llawn ar 5 Rhagfyr ar gylch gwaithac aelodaeth yr ymchwiliad annibynnol igaledi ac ariannu myfyrwyr yng Nghymru.Yna cyflwynaf adroddiad ar amseru’rymchwiliad i’r Pwyllgor Addysg a DysguGydol Oes ar 13 Rhagfyr.

Peter Black: Will you take this opportunityto confirm that the commission will report itsfindings in spring 2001 in order thatmeasures can be put in place to alleviatestudent hardship at the start of the nextacademic year?

Peter Black: A achubwch ar y cyfle hwn igadarnhau y bydd y comisiwn yn cyflwynoadroddiad ar ei ganfyddiadau yng ngwanwyn2001 er mwyn gallu sefydlu mesurau i liniarucaledi myfyrwyr ar ddechrau’r flwyddynacademaidd nesaf?

Jane Davidson: We are committed to reportin 2001. I am not bringing the terms ofreference and membership to the Assemblyuntil next week because I want those who

Jane Davidson: Yr ydym yn ymrwymedig igyflwyno adroddiad yn 2001. Ni ddof â’rcylch gwaith a’r aelodaeth i’r Cynulliad tanyr wythnos nesaf gan fy mod am i’r rheini a

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were selected to participate in thecommission to have a chance to consider theterms of reference. It was agreed inCommittee yesterday, usefully, that thereport of the hardship review in spring 2001would be considered in terms of the highereducation strategy review on which we willreport in November 2001. We are keepingthose two reviews in synergy.

ddetholwyd i gyfranogi yn y comisiwn gaelcyfle i ystyried y cylch gwaith. Yr oedd ynddefnyddiol i’r Pwyllgor gytuno ddoe ybyddai’r adroddiad ar yr adolygiad calediyng ngwanwyn 2001 yn cael ei ystyried ynnhermau’r adolygiad strategaeth addysguwch y cyflwynwn adroddiad arno ynNhachwedd 2001. Yr ydym yn cadw’r ddauadolygiad hynny mewn synergedd.

Pauline Jarman: Will you commit thismorning to invite student union organisationsto participate in that review?

Pauline Jarman: A ymrwymwch y bore ymai wahodd sefydliadau undebau myfyrwyr igyfranogi yn yr adolygiad hwnnw?

Jane Davidson: Absolutely. It would beludicrous to conduct a review without theirparticipation.

Jane Davidson: Wrth gwrs. Byddai’nwallgof cynnal adolygiad heb eu cyfranogiad.

Alun Cairns: A yw’r Gweinidog yn derbynbod nifer y myfyrwyr mewn addysg uwchwedi syrthio o ganlyniad i’r dreth ar addysg agyflwynwyd gan y Llywodraeth Lafur acsydd yn cael ei chuddio o dan yr enw‘ffïoedd hyfforddi’?

Alun Cairns: Does the Minister accept thatthe number of students in higher educationhas fallen as a result of the tax on educationintroduced by the Labour Government,which is hidden under the name ‘tuitionfees’?

Jane Davidson: No, because the number ofstudents has increased. It is important that wehave a positive story to tell in Wales,particularly about participation from thoseareas that have not traditionally participated.We have the best levels of participation fromlow participation areas in Britain. We need totake that forward positively in our agenda ofwidening participation. It is important thatthe review, in considering student hardship,also looks at how we can widen participationfor potential students in Wales.

Jane Davidson: Nac ydwyf, oherwydd bodnifer y myfyrwyr wedi cynyddu. Mae’nbwysig bod gennym stori gadarnhaol i’whadrodd yng Nghymru, yn arbennig ynglŷn âchyfranogiad o’r ardaloedd hynny nad ydyntwedi cyfranogi yn draddodiadol. Ni sydd â’rlefelau cyfranogi gorau o ardaloeddcyfranogi isel ym Mhrydain. Mae angen inniddatblygu hynny yn gadarnhaol yn einhagenda o gyfranogi ehangach. Mae’nbwysig bod yr adolygiad, wrth ystyriedcaledi myfyrwyr, hefyd yn edrych ar sut ygallwn ehangu cyfranogiad ar gyfer darparfyfyrwyr yng Nghymru.

Gwenda Thomas: Will you also consultwith the Benefits Agency so that theimplications of overlapping benefits areunderstood from the beginning?

Gwenda Thomas: A ymgynghorwch hefydâ’r Asiantaeth Budd-daliadau er mwyn ioblygiadau budd-daliadau sydd yngorgyffwrdd gael eu deall o’r dechrau?

9:45 a.m.

Jane Davidson: If you recall, Gwenda, thedecision was for this to be an independentreview, but I am happy to send a copy of therecord of the proceedings of this Plenarymeeting to the chair of the review soMembers’ comments today can be taken on

Jane Davidson: Os cofiwch, Gwenda, ypenderfyniad oedd i hyn fod yn adolygiadannibynnol, ond yr wyf yn fodlon anfon copio’r cofnod o drafodion y Cyfarfod Llawnhwn at gadeirydd yr adolygiad er mwyn isylwadau’r Aelodau heddiw allu cael eu

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board. hystyried.

Cwestiynau i Bwyllgor y TŷQuestions to the House Committee

Adeilad y PierheadThe Pierhead Building

Q1 Pauline Jarman: Can the HouseCommittee provide an update on the progressbeing made with the Pierhead building?(OAQ8183)

C1 Pauline Jarman: A all Pwyllgor y Tŷroi’r newyddion diweddaraf ar y cynnydd awneir ynglŷn ag adeilad y Pierhead?(OAQ8183)

The Deputy Presiding Officer (JohnMarek): It is expected that Pierhead willopen as the Assembly’s visitor and educationcentre early in the new year. The internal fit-out work for the centre will be completedbefore Christmas and the exhibition is underconstruction. New members of staff havebeen recruited to work in the centre and arecurrently undergoing training.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd (John Marek):Disgwylir i’r Pierhead agor fel canolfanymwelwyr ac addysg y Cynulliad yn gynnaryn y flwyddyn newydd. Cwblheir y gwaith oosod offer a chelfi mewnol y ganolfan cyn yNadolig ac mae’r arddangosfa wrthi’n cael eigosod. Recriwtiwyd aelodau newydd o staff iweithio yn y ganolfan ac maent yn cael euhyfforddi ar hyn o bryd.

Pauline Jarman: On the exhibition, in viewof the fact that an adviser on the displaycontent of the Pierhead building announcedto the staff of a local school that he knewnothing about Welsh history, can youconfirm that the centre will provideinformation to enhance visitor appreciationof Welsh history?

Pauline Jarman: O ran yr arddangosfa, yngngoleuni’r ffaith i gynghorwr ar gynnwysarddangosfa adeilad y Pierhead gyhoeddi istaff ysgol leol na wyddai unrhyw beth amhanes Cymru, a allwch sicrhau y bydd yganolfan yn darparu gwybodaeth i wellagwerthfawrogiad ymwelwyr o hanes Cymru?

The Deputy Presiding Officer: I am surethat that point will be taken into account andI will look into it. I cannot tell you definitelyif a substantial proportion of the exhibitionwill be on Welsh history, but I am sure that aportion will pertain to that subject.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Yr wyf yn siŵr yrystyrir y pwynt hwnnw ac ymchwiliaf iddo.Ni allaf ddweud wrthych yn bendant pa un afydd cyfran sylweddol o’r arddangosfa arhanes Cymru, ond yr wyf yn siŵr y byddrhan ohoni yn ymwneud â’r pwnc hwnnw.

Trefniadau DiogelwchSecurity Arrangements

Q2 Phil Williams: Will the HouseCommittee review security arrangements forentry into the Assembly building?(OAQ8187)

C2 Phil Williams: A wnaiff Pwyllgor y Tŷadolygu’r trefniadau diogelwch ar gyfermynediad i adeilad y Cynulliad? (OAQ8187)

The Deputy Presiding Officer: There areno current plans to do so.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Nid oes unrhywgynlluniau i wneud hynny ar hyn o bryd.

Phil Williams: We boast, with justification,that we are a family-friendly institution,

Phil Williams: Ymffrostiwn, yn gyfiawn,ein bod yn sefydliad cyfeillgar i deuluoedd,

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therefore will the House Committee considergiving special permanent passes to thespouses and partners of Assembly Members,who often suffer long delays in visiting us atour work?

felly a ystyria Pwyllgor y Tŷ roi pas parhaolarbennig i wŷr, gwragedd a phartneriaidAelodau’r Cynulliad, sydd yn dioddef oedihir yn aml wrth ymweld â ni yn ein gwaith?

The Deputy Presiding Officer: That wasagreed at the last House Committee meeting.The relevant department is currentlyconsidering which colour these passes shouldbe. As soon as a decision is made, I am surethat they will be issued straight away.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Cytunwyd ar hynnyyng nghyfarfod diwethaf Pwyllgor y Tŷ. Arhyn o bryd mae’r adran berthnasol ynystyried pa liw y dylai’r pas hwnnw fod. Cyngynted ag y gwneir penderfyniad, yr wyf ynsiŵr y cânt eu dosbarthu ar unwaith.

Cynllunio Ymweliadau TramorThe Planning of International Visits

C3 Ieuan Wyn Jones: A wnaiff Pwyllgor yTŷ ddatganiad ynglŷn â chynlluniau tymorhir a chydlynu ymweliadau tramor?(OAQ8181)

Q3 Ieuan Wyn Jones: Will the HouseCommittee make a statement on the long-term planning and co-ordination ofinternational visits? (OAQ8181)

The Deputy Presiding Officer: ThePresiding Office receives an average of 100international visitors every month on behalfof the Assembly. So far, the programme hasbeen largely reactive. However, the HouseCommittee will have a role in considering amore strategic programme of Assembly visitsby international visitors and, on a cross-partybasis, international visits by AssemblyMembers.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Mae Swyddfa’rLlywydd yn croesawu 100 o ymwelwyrtramor ar gyfartaledd bob mis ar ran yCynulliad. Hyd yn hyn, bu’r rhaglen ynadweithiol yn bennaf. Fodd bynnag, byddgan Bwyllgor y Tŷ rôl wrth ystyried rhaglenfwy strategol o ymweliadau â’r Cynulliadgan ymwelwyr tramor ac, ar lefeldrawsbleidiol, ymweliadau tramor ganAelodau’r Cynulliad.

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Pwrpas fy nghwestiwnyw ceisio sicrhau bod ymwelwyr tramor yncael eu croesawu gan gymaint o Aelodau agsydd yn bosibl. Pan drefnir yr ymweliadauhyn, a fyddai’n bosibl rhoi mwy o rybudd iAelodau fel y gallwn gydlynu eindyddiaduron a threfnu i gyfarfod yrymwelwyr? Deallaf fod nifer o’r ymweliadauyn digwydd ar ddydd Gwener, sydd yngolygu ei bod yn anodd i Aelodau gyfarfodymwelwyr. Er mwyn sicrhau eu bod ynderbyn croeso teilwng, a allwch fy sicrhau yrhoddir fwy o rybudd? A yw’n bosibl trefnumwy o ymweliadau yn ystod yr wythnos pany gall mwy o Aelodau gymryd rhan?

Ieuan Wyn Jones: The purpose of myquestion is to try to ensure that foreignvisitors are welcomed by as many Membersas possible. When these visits are organised,would it be possible to give Members morenotice so that we can synchronise our diariesand arrange to meet the visitors? I understandthat many visits take place on Fridays, whichmakes it difficult for Members to meetvisitors. In order to ensure that they receive aproper welcome, can you assure me thatmore notice will be given? Is it possible toorganise more visits during the week whenmore Members can take part?

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Some visits,such as those that are sponsored by theForeign and Commonwealth Office, areprimarily the responsibility of the Executive.Other visits to the Assembly are the

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Cyfrifoldeb yWeithrediaeth yn bennaf yw rhaiymweliadau, megis y rheini a noddir gan ySwyddfa Dramor a Chymanwlad. CyfrifoldebSwyddfa’r Llywydd yw’r ymweliadau eraill

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responsibility of the Presiding Office and wewill do all that we can to involve as manyMembers as we can in those visits.

â’r Cynulliad, a gwnawn bopeth o fewn eingallu i gynnwys cymaint o Aelodau ag ygallwn yn yr ymweliadau hynny.

Ystafell Ysmygu y CynulliadAssembly Smoking Room

Q4 Alun Pugh: How much did it cost toprovide a smoking room in the Assembly?(OAQ8177)

C4 Alun Pugh: Faint oedd cost darparuystafell ysmygu yn y Cynulliad? (OAQ8177)

The Deputy Presiding Officer: The costwas £8,000.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Y gost oedd £8,000.

Alun Pugh: The 7,000 people who die everyyear from smoking in Wales include manycivil servants. Did the House Committee notrealise that spending £8,000 on a smokingroom rather than on a creche or a gym is badfor Members’ and employees’ health and is atruly rotten example to employers and publicbodies in Wales?

Alun Pugh: Ymhlith y 7,000 o bobl sydd ynmarw bob blwyddyn o ysmygu yng Nghymruy mae llawer o weision sifil. Onisylweddolodd Pwyllgor y Tŷ fod gwario£8,000 ar ystafell ysmygu yn hytrach nag arfeithrinfa neu gampfa yn ddrwg i iechyd yrAelodau a’r staff ac yn esiampl wirioneddolwael i gyflogwyr a chyrff cyhoeddus yngNghymru?

The Deputy Presiding Officer: I will ensurethat this item is on the agenda for the nextHouse Committee meeting. Of that £8,000,£6,500 was for installing a mechanicalextraction unit. Providing a smoking roomalso means that you no longer see, at anytime of the day, groups of Members and staffat the back door getting wet in the rain,simply because they have an addiction. Thereis no easy solution to this issue, but I am surethat the House Committee will return to it.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Sicrhaf y bydd yreitem hon ar yr agenda ar gyfer cyfarfodnesaf Pwyllgor y Tŷ. O’r £8,000 hwnnw, yroedd £6,500 ar gyfer gosod uned echdynnufecanyddol. Mae darparu ystafell ysmyguhefyd yn golygu na welwch bellach, arunrhyw adeg o’r dydd, grwpiau o Aelodau astaff wrth y drws cefn yn gwlychu yn y glaw,oherwydd eu bod yn gaeth i dybaco. Nid oesateb hawdd i’r mater hwn, ond yr wyf ynsiŵr y bydd Pwyllgor y Tŷ yn dychwelyd ato.

Rod Richards: Is the Dirprwy Lywyddaware that the Assembly smoking room is atruly inclusive place? It may not be terriblytransparent, but I assure him that it isinclusive and that I very much enjoy havingdiscussions with Mrs Marek in there.[Laughter.] On a more serious note, will theDirprwy Lywydd attempt to give us anestimate of the cost to the Assembly of nothaving a smoking room in terms of time lossand payment for people to stand outside inthe rain?

Rod Richards: A yw’r Dirprwy Lywydd ynymwybodol bod ystafell ysmygu’r Cynulliadyn lle gwirioneddol gynhwysol? Efallai nadyw’n ofnadwy o dryloyw, ond fe’ch sicrhafei bod yn gynhwysol a’m bod yn mwynhautrafodaethau â Mrs Marek yno yn fawr.[Chwerthin.] Ar nodyn mwy difrifol, aymgeisia’r Dirprwy Lywydd i roiamcangyfrif inni o’r gost i’r Cynulliad obeidio â chael ystafell ysmygu yn nhermaucolli amser a thalu pobl i sefyll y tu allan yny glaw?

The Deputy Presiding Officer: I am pleasedthat the room is inclusive. I had noknowledge of that, and I must tell Rod that Iam not responsible for Mrs Marek—

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Yr wyf yn falch bod yrystafell yn gynhwysol. Nid oeddwn ynymwybodol o hynny, a rhaid imi ddweudwrth Rod nad wyf yn gyfrifol am Mrs

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[Laughter.] As far as smoking is concerned,that is. However, there are two sides to theproblem. We must recognise the fact thatsmoking is an addiction and I am sure thatthe House Committee will do its best totackle these concerns.

Marek—[Chwerthin.] Cyn belled ag y maeysmygu yn y cwestiwn, hynny yw. Foddbynnag, mae dwy ochr i’r broblem. Rhaidinni gydnabod y ffaith bod ysmygu ynrhywbeth y mae pobl yn gaeth iddo ac yr wyfyn siŵr y gwna Pwyllgor y Tŷ ei orau i fyndi’r afael â’r pryderon hyn.

Diogelwch System Cyfrifiaduron y CynulliadSecurity of Assembly Computer System

C5 David Lloyd: A wnaiff Pwyllgor y Tŷroi’r newyddion diweddaraf ynglŷn â phagamau a gymerwyd i sicrhau diogelwchsystem cyfrifiaduron y Cynulliad yn dilyn yproblemau diweddar gyda firysau yn ysystem? (OAQ8186)

Q5 David Lloyd: Will the House Committeeprovide an update on what steps have beentaken to ensure the security of the Assemblycomputer system following the recentproblems with viruses entering the system?(OAQ8186)

The Deputy Presiding Officer: TheAssembly’s Business and InformationSystems Division and Siemens BusinessServices have been examining the matter.They have installed new anti-virus softwareon all servers. All workstations and lap-topson the OSIRIS network are running the latestversion of the InocuLan anti-virus protection.They have introduced better procedures toalert users when problems arise and haveissued revised guidance on the steps that theyshould take. They have also reviewed thepolicy regarding the use of privately ownedsystems for work purposes and have issuednew guidance to Assembly officials.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Bu Is-adran SystemauBusnes a Gwybodaeth y Cynulliad aGwasanaeth Busnes Siemens yn archwilio’rmater. Maent wedi gosod meddalweddgwrthfirws newydd ar bob gwasanaethydd.Mae pob gorsaf waith a chyfrifiadur penglinar rwydwaith OSIRIS yn rhedeg fersiwnddiweddaraf system ddiogelu gwrthfirwsInocuLan. Maent wedi cyflwynogweithdrefnau gwell er mwyn rhybuddiodefnyddwyr pan fo problemau yn codi acmaent wedi cyhoeddi arweiniad diwygiedigar y camau y dylent eu cymryd. Maent hefydwedi adolygu’r polisi ynghylch defnyddiosystemau a berchenogir yn breifat atddibenion gwaith ac maent wedi cyhoeddiarweiniad newydd i swyddogion y Cynulliad.

David Lloyd: Yn sgîl hynny, pa gamau agymerwyd i ddiogelu cyfrinachedd yn ysystem e-bost?

David Lloyd: Further to that, what stepshave been taken to safeguard confidentialityin the e-mail system?

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Members’e-mail systems are being removed from theGovernment secure internet e-mail system,but they will still be secure. As a result ofproblems six months ago, new guidance hasbeen issued and my understanding is thatMembers’ e-mails are secure. However, Iwill ensure that the House Committeeconsiders this at its next meeting and ensurese-mail security for all Members.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Mae systemau e-bostyr Aelodau yn cael eu symud o system e-bostrhyngrwyd diogel y Llywodraeth, ondbyddant yn ddiogel o hyd. O ganlyniad ibroblemau chwe mis yn ôl, cyhoeddwydarweiniad newydd ac yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf,mae negeseuon e-bost yr Aelodau yn ddiogel.Fodd bynnag, sicrhaf fod Pwyllgor y Tŷ ynystyried hyn yn ei gyfarfod nesaf a’i fod ynsicrhau diogelwch e-bost i bob Aelod.

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Ymdrin yn Gyfartal â Chwestiynau a Gyflwynir yn Gymraeg neu yn SaesnegEqual Treatment for Questions Tabled in Welsh or English

Q6 Helen Mary Jones: Will the HouseCommittee tell us what efforts are beingmade to secure equal treatment for questionstabled in Welsh or English? (OAQ8184)

C6 Helen Mary Jones: A wnaiff Pwyllgor yTŷ ddweud wrthym pa ymdrechion a wneir isicrhau yr ymdrinnir yn gyfartal âchwestiynau a gyflwynir yn Gymraeg neu ynSaesneg? (OAQ8184)

The Deputy Presiding Officer: All businesssubmitted to the Table Office is treatedequally. The choice of language does notaffect the way in which business isconsidered.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Ymdrinnir â’r hollfusnes a roddir i’r Swyddfa Gyflwyno yngyfartal. Nid yw dewis iaith yn effeithio ar ymodd yr ystyrir busnes.

Helen Mary Jones: The Deputy PresidingOfficer will recall Owen John Thomas’sproblems some weeks ago on amendingquestions because tabling deadlines had beenmissed due to translation delays. I understandthat other colleagues have experienced suchdifficulties. Does he share my concerns thatsuch incidents risk a breach of our StandingOrders Nos. 7.1, 8.23, 22.2 and 25.2? Will heensure that the Translation Service givesurgent priority to urgent Members’ businessof this nature?

Helen Mary Jones: Bydd y DirprwyLywydd yn cofio problemau Owen JohnThomas rai wythnosau yn ôl ar ddiwygiocwestiynau oherwydd bod terfynau amsercyflwyno wedi eu methu o ganlyniad i oedigyda’r cyfieithu. Deallaf fod cyd-Aelodaueraill wedi profi anawsterau o’r fath. A rannafy mhryderon bod achosion o’r fath mewnperygl o dorri ein Rheolau Sefydlog Rhifau7.1, 8.23, 22.2 a 25.2? A sicrha y bydd yGwasanaeth Cyfieithu yn rhoi blaenoriaethfrys i fusnes brys Aelodau o’r math hwn?

The Deputy Presiding Officer: AnyMember who wishes to table a question or anamendment five minutes before the 4.00 p.m.deadline should be able to do so in eitherlanguage and should be given a reason as towhy a particular question is or is notaccepted. There have been failings. Therehave not been sufficient translation staff, butmore are being recruited. The Table Officenow has a resident Welsh speaker tofacilitate face-to-face and telephone contacts.The Translation Service is on stand-by todeal with any urgent business. Adequatefacilities are being put in place, therefore Ihope that we will soon be in a position wherethese problems will not arise again.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Dylai unrhyw Aelodsydd am gyflwyno cwestiwn neu ddiwygiadbum munud cyn y terfyn amser am 4.00 p.m.allu gwneud hynny yn y naill iaith neu’r llalla dylid rhoi rheswm iddo ynghylch pam yderbynnir cwestiwn arbennig neu beidio. Bumethiannau. Ni fu digon o staff cyfieithu,ond mae mwy yn cael eu recriwtio. Bellachmae gan y Swyddfa Gyflwyno GymroCymraeg yn barhaol i hwyluso cysylltiadauwyneb yn wyneb ac ar y ffôn. Mae’rGwasanaeth Cyfieithu wrth law i ymdrin agunrhyw fusnes brys. Mae cyfleusteraudigonol yn cael eu sefydlu, felly gobeithiaf ybyddwn yn fuan mewn sefyllfa lle na chyfydy problemau hyn eto.

9:55 a.m.

Ymestyn Oriau Desg Gymorth Gwasanaeth Busnes SiemensExtending the Hours of the Siemens Business Services Helpdesk

Q7 Jocelyn Davies: Will the HouseCommittee provide an update on the agreedproposal to extend the Siemens BusinessServices dedicated helpdesk service to the

C7 Jocelyn Davies: A wnaiff Pwyllgor y Tŷroi’r newyddion diweddaraf ynglŷn â’rcynnig y cytunwyd arno i ymestyn oriaugwasanaeth desg gymorth Gwasanaeth

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recommended hours? (OAQ8182) Busnes Siemens i’r oriau a argymhellwyd?(OAQ8182)

The Deputy Presiding Officer: A note onthe provision of out-of-hours informationtechnology support for Members and theirsupport staff was submitted to the HouseCommittee in October. It was proposed thatthe service would provide telephone supportfrom 6.30 p.m. until midnight on weekdaysand from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. at weekends. Theseadditional services would cost £300 per weekplus VAT, for a limit of 15 calls in a week.Each additional call would incur a furthercharge. Unfortunately, due to pressure ofbusiness, IT matters were not considered atthe House Committee’s November meeting.However, they will be considered in its nextmeeting in January.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Cyflwynwyd nodyn arddarparu cymorth technoleg gwybodaeth y tuallan i oriau swyddfa ar gyfer yr Aelodau a’ustaff cynorthwyol i Bwyllgor y Tŷ ym misHydref. Cynigiwyd y byddai’r gwasanaeth yndarparu cymorth dros y ffôn o 6.30 p.m. tanganol nos yn ystod yr wythnos ac o 9 a.m. tan5 p.m. ar y penwythnos. Byddai’rgwasanaethau ychwanegol hyn yn costio£300 yr wythnos yn ogystal â TAW, am ddimmwy na 15 o alwadau mewn wythnos.Byddai i bob galwad ychwanegol gostbellach. Yn anffodus, oherwydd pwysaubusnes, ni ystyriwyd materion TG yngnghyfarfod Tachwedd Pwyllgor y Tŷ. Foddbynnag, cânt eu hystyried yn ei gyfarfodnesaf yn Ionawr.

Jocelyn Davies: Thank you for that answer.It negates the need to ask my supplementaryquestion.

Jocelyn Davies: Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw.Mae’n negyddu’r angen i ofyn fynghwestiwn atodol.

Defnyddio Neuadd y CynulliadUse of the Assembly Milling Area

Q8 Richard Edwards: Will the HouseCommittee make a statement on the use ofthe milling area in the Assembly?(OAQ8188)

C8 Richard Edwards: A wnaiff Pwyllgor yTŷ ddatganiad ar y defnydd a wneir o neuaddy Cynulliad? (OAQ8188)

The Deputy Presiding Officer: TheAssembly milling area is used by Members,constituents and Assembly visitors as ameeting place. It is also used to stage eventsand exhibitions. The guidelines on the use ofthe milling area, which form the criteria usedby the Presiding Officer in making decisions,are being reviewed by the Committee.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Defnyddir neuadd yCynulliad gan Aelodau, etholwyr a rhai syddyn ymweld â’r Cynulliad fel man cyfarfod.Fe’i defnyddir hefyd i lwyfannudigwyddiadau ac arddangosfeydd. Mae’rcanllawiau ar ddefnyddio’r neuadd, sydd ynffurfio’r meini prawf a ddefnyddir gan yLlywydd wrth wneud penderfyniadau, yncael eu hadolygu gan y Pwyllgor.

Richard Edwards: Will you comment onwhat appears to be a practice of block-booking the milling area, which severelylimits its availablity for other organisations?One organisation has block-booked the areafor every Tuesday from the beginning of lastmonth to the end of next April.

Richard Edwards: A wnewch sylw ar yrhyn sydd, i bob golwg, yn arfer o floclogi’rneuadd, sydd yn cyfyngu’n ddifrifol ar eihargaeledd i sefydliadau eraill? Mae unsefydliad wedi bloclogi’r ardal bob dyddMawrth o ddechrau’r mis diwethaf tanddiwedd Ebrill y flwyddyn nesaf.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: I do notknow of that example. I shall look into it. On

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Ni wn am yr enghraiffthonno. Edrychaf i mewn iddi. Ar yr wyneb—

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the surface—and I say this without knowinganything about the organisation that youmentioned—it seems that it cannot be rightfor one organisation to monopolise the areafor such a long time. I will make sure thatthat matter is on the agenda for the nextHouse Committee meeting.

a dywedaf hyn heb wybod unrhyw beth am ysefydliad a grybwyllasoch—ymddengys naall fod yn iawn i un sefydliad feddiannu’rardal gyhyd. Sicrhaf fod y mater ar yr agendaar gyfer cyfarfod nesaf Pwyllgor y Tŷ.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: A yw’r DirprwyLywydd yn ymwybodol o’r consýrn afynegwyd yng nghyfarfod y PwyllgorDiwylliant ddoe ynghylch sensoriaeth o’rarddangosfeydd yn neuadd y Cynulliad amannau eraill yn y Cynulliad? Fel Cadeiryddy Pwyllgor, byddaf yn ysgrifennu ato ifynegi’r consýrn hwnnw.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Is the DeputyPresiding Officer aware of the concernexpressed in the Culture Committee meetingyesterday about censorship of exhibitions inthe Assembly milling area and other areas inthe Assembly? As the Committee Chair, Iwill write to him to express that concern.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: I will awaityour letter. The House Committee has anadvisory role in such matters. In the end, it isthe Presiding Officer’s decision.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Disgwyliaf am eichllythyr. Mae gan Bwyllgor y Tŷ rôl gynghorimewn materion o’r fath. Yn y pen draw,penderfyniad y Llywydd ydyw.

The Presiding Officer: Question 9 has beentransferred for written answer.

Y Llywydd: Trosglwyddwyd cwestiwn 9 igael ei ateb yn ysgrifenedig.

Rhaglenni Addysgiadol ynghylch y Cynulliad CenedlaetholEducational Programmes about the National Assembly

C10 Gareth Jones: A wnaiff Pwyllgor y Tŷgadarnhau pa gynnydd a wnaethpwyd o ransefydlu a hyrwyddo rhaglenni addysgiadolynghylch y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol?(OAQ8179)

Q10 Gareth Jones: Will the HouseCommittee confirm what progress has beenmade in terms of establishing and promotingeducational programmes about the NationalAssembly? (OAQ8179)

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Aprogramme of visits for school and studentparties has been made available since theopening of the Assembly. The programmehas been limited by the space and facilitiesavailable and suitable for educational activityin the Assembly building. That will beremedied when the Pierhead building opensearly in 2001.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Sicrhawyd bod rhagleno ymweliadau i bartïon ysgol a myfyrwyr argael ers i’r Cynulliad agor. Cyfyngwyd ar yrhaglen gan y gofod a’r cyfleusterau sydd argael ac sydd yn addas ar gyfer gweithgarwchaddysgiadol o fewn adeilad y Cynulliad.Unionir hynny pan fydd adeilad y Pierheadyn agor ddechrau 2001.

Gareth Jones: A allwch ein sicrhau y bydd yrhaglenni hynny yn canolbwyntio ar faterionCymreig ac ar yr egwyddorion pwysig ymae’r Cynulliad yn ymwneud â hwy, sef,cydraddoldeb, datblygu cynaliadwy, diddymutlodi a dwyieithrwydd? A fydd yregwyddorion hynny yn cael eu mewnoli yn yrhaglenni astudiaeth fydd ar gael yngnghanolfan addysg y Pierhead?

Gareth Jones: Can you assure us that thoseprogrammes will focus on Welsh issues andon the important principles espoused by theAssembly, namely, equality, sustainabledevelopment, elimination of poverty andbilingualism? Will those principles beinternalised in the study programmes thatwill be available in the Pierhead educationcentre?

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The Deputy Presiding Officer: Theexhibition will be about Wales and theNational Assembly. As a result of yourquestion, Gareth, I will ensure that thosematters are included, and that you will besatisified when the exhibition opens.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Am Gymru a’rCynulliad Cenedlaethol y bydd yrarddangosfa. O ganlyniad i’ch cwestiwn,Gareth, sicrhaf y bydd y materion hynny yncael eu cynnwys, ac y byddwch yn fodlonpan fydd yr arddangosfa yn agor.

Janice Gregory: Deputy Presiding Officer,will you join me in congratulating thePresiding Office and, in particular, the staffwho work in the Public Information branch,on the service that they provide for educationvisits, especially those for school children? Ihave attended the presentations of those staffand they do a wonderful job.

Janice Gregory: Ddirprwy Lywydd, aymunwch â mi wrth longyfarch Swyddfa’rLlywydd ac, yn benodol, y staff sydd yngweithio yn y gangen GwybodaethGyhoeddus, ar y gwasanaeth a ddarparant argyfer ymweliadau addysgiadol, yn arbennig yrheini ar gyfer plant ysgol? Yr wyf wedimynychu cyflwyniadau’r staff hynny agwnânt waith bendigedig.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Certainly. Ihave received only compliments on theservice that they provide.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Yn sicr. Dim ondcanmoliaeth a gefais ar y gwasanaeth addarparant.

Rosemary Butler: I affirm that also.However, the staff work in difficultcircumstances, because they do not havedecent literature or pamphlets to hand to thechildren. When children visit places, theylike to take something home with them. Wecannot do that here. What progress has beenmade in developing that kind of informationfor school children in this building?

Rosemary Butler: Ategaf innau hynnyhefyd. Fodd bynnag, mae’r staff yn gweithiomewn amgylchiadau anodd, am nad oesganddynt lenyddiaeth na phamfflediboddhaol i’w rhoi i’r plant. Pan fydd plant ynymweld â lleoedd, maent yn hoffi mynd ârhywbeth adref gyda hwy. Ni allwn wneudhynny yma. Pa gynnydd a wnaethpwyd wrthddatblygu’r math hwnnw o wybodaeth argyfer plant ysgol yn yr adeilad hwn?

The Deputy Presiding Officer: That isbeing developed as part of the exhibition inthe Pierhead building. I will ensure that thereis a proper supply and variety of literature sothat children can take away with theminformation about all the facets of theexhibition and the National Assembly.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Mae hynny’n cael eiddatblygu fel rhan o’r arddangosfa o fewnadeilad y Pierhead. Sicrhaf fod cyflenwaddigonol ac amrywiaeth o lenyddiaeth ar gaelfel y gall plant fynd â gwybodaeth gyda hwyam holl agweddau’r arddangosfa a’rCynulliad Cenedlaethol.

The Presiding Officer: Question 11 hasbeen transferred for written answer.

Y Llywydd: Trosglwyddwyd cwestiwn 11 igael ei ateb yn ysgrifenedig.

Cynllun Gwreiddiol Adeilad Newydd y Cynulliad (Darpariaeth ar gyfer Pobl Anabl)New Assembly Building Original Design (Disabled Provision)

Q12 Alison Halford: What is the estimatedcost, in both time and money, of the failureto require the architects to include provisionsfor the disabled within their original designfor the new National Assembly for Walesbuilding? (OAQ8195)

C12 Alison Halford: Faint a amcangyfrifiryw’r gost, o ran amser ac arian, o fethu âgofyn i’r penseiri gynnwys darpariaethau argyfer pobl anabl yn eu cynlluniau gwreiddiolar gyfer adeilad newydd CynulliadCenedlaethol Cymru? (OAQ8195)

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I congratulate the Presiding Officer and theDeputy Presiding Officer for allowing thisnew form of scrutiny. It is very welcome.

Llongyfarchaf y Llywydd a’r DirprwyLywydd am ganiatáu’r ffurf newydd hon oarchwilio. Mae croeso mawr iddo.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: This matterdoes not fall within the remit of the HouseCommittee. I apologise, Alison. I shouldhave transferred that question to theExecutive.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Nid yw’r mater hwnyn syrthio o fewn cylch gwaith Pwyllgor yTŷ. Ymddiheuraf, Alison. Dylwn fod weditrosglwyddo’r cwestiwn hwnnw i’rWeithrediaeth.

Alison Halford: Does that mean that thescrutiny has gone out of the window?[Laughter.] I shall take that up with theHouse Committee.

Alison Halford: A olyga hynny fodarchwilio wedi mynd allan drwy’r ffenestr?[Chwerthin.] Codaf hynny gyda Phwyllgor yTŷ.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: There isHouse Committee involvement once thebuilding is handed over, so there is co-operation. However, the question is properlyone for the Executive and should have beentransferred to it. I apologise.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Bydd yn gysylltiedig âPhwyllgor y Tŷ unwaith y trosglwyddir yradeilad, felly mae cydweithredu. Foddbynnag, a bod yn gywir, cwestiwn i’rWeithrediaeth ydyw a dylid bod wedi eidrosglwyddo iddo. Ymddiheuraf am hynny.

Alison Halford: Will you be suggesting away that the Executive can be brought intothe scrutiny regime?

Alison Halford: A fyddwch yn awgrymuffordd i’r Weithrediaeth allu cael ei thynnu imewn i’r drefn archwilio?

The Deputy Presiding Officer: It will haveheard what I have just said.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Bydd wedi clywed yrhyn yr wyf newydd ei ddweud.

Diogelwch Swyddfeydd Etholaeth Aelodau’r CynulliadSecurity of Assembly Members’ Constituency Offices

Q13 Ann Jones: Since the horrific murder ofa volunteer assistant in the constituencyoffice of Nigel Jones MP, has the Committeeconsidered the measures that are required toensure that Assembly Members’ constituencyoffices are properly secure and safe?(OAQ8189)

C13 Ann Jones: Ers llofruddiaeth erchyllcynorthwy-ydd gwirfoddol yn swyddfaetholaeth Nigel Jones AS, a yw’r Pwyllgorwedi ystyried y mesurau angenrheidiol ermwyn sicrhau bod swyddfeydd etholaethAelodau’r Cynulliad yn gwbl ddiogel?(OAQ8189)

The Deputy Presiding Officer: The HouseCommittee considered that issue at itsmeeting on 22 November and will berecommending shortly to all Members anincrease in Members’ office costs allowanceof £2,000 to provide for security measures. Iunderstand that the relevant motion will betabled for debate next week.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Ystyriodd Pwyllgor yTŷ y mater hwnnw yn ei gyfarfod ar 22Tachwedd a chyn hir bydd yn argymellcynnydd o £2,000 i bob Aelod yn lwfanscostau swyddfa yr Aelodau er mwyn darparuar gyfer mesurau diogelwch. Deallaf y byddy cynnig perthnasol yn cael ei gyflwyno i’wdrafod yr wythnos nesaf.

The Presiding Officer: Before I transfer theChair to the hard-working Deputy PresidingOfficer, I have agreed with the Executive that

Y Llywydd: Cyn imi drosglwyddo’r Gadairi’r Dirprwy Lywydd diwyd, yr wyf wedicytuno gyda’r Weithrediaeth ein bod yn

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we take a statement from Sue Essex at aconvenient time this morning.

cymryd datganiad gan Sue Essex ar adeggyfleus y bore yma.

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair am 10.00 a.m.The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair at 10.00 a.m.

Strategaeth i Hybu Iechyd a LlesStrategy to Promote Health and Wellbeing

The Deputy Presiding Officer: I haveselected amendment 1 in the name of JocelynDavies and amendments 2 and 3 in the nameof David Melding.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Yr wyf wedi detholgwelliant 1 yn enw Jocelyn Davies agwelliannau 2 a 3 yn enw David Melding.

The Minister for Health and SocialServices (Jane Hutt): I propose that

Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a GwasanaethauCymdeithasol (Jane Hutt): Cynigiaf fod

the National Assembly y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol

welcomes the framework set by the nationalhealth promotion strategy, which wascirculated to Members by e-mail on 22November 2000, as the basis for a co-ordinated and sustained effort to promotebetter health;

yn croesawu’r fframwaith a osodwyd gan ystrategaeth hybu iechyd genedlaethol addosbarthwyd i’r Aelodau ar ffurf e-bost ar22 Tachwedd 2000 fel sail ar gyfer ymdrechgydlynol a pharhaus i hybu gwell iechyd;

approves the action plan followingconsultation on the strategy as a significantcontribution to the partnership agreement’scommitment to a greater emphasis onpreventing ill-health; and

yn cymeradwyo’r cynllun gweithredu, ar ôlymgynghori ar y strategaeth, fel cyfraniadsylweddol at ymrwymiad y cytundebpartneriaeth i roi mwy o bwyslais ar atalafiechyd;

urges the Subject Committees to consider theimpact of their policies and programmes onpeople’s health as a means of identifying newopportunities to promote health as anintegrated part of wider action.

yn annog y Pwyllgorau Pwnc i ystyriedeffaith eu polisïau a’u rhaglenni ar iechydpobl, fel modd o nodi cyfleoedd newydd ihybu iechyd fel rhan integredig o ymgyrchehangach.

I am pleased to open today’s debate onpromoting health and wellbeing. I willconcentrate on two things: first, the actionthat will be taken to promote health andwellbeing and, secondly, the potential formore to be done across the Assembly’spolicy areas as a further step towardsintegrating policies and programmes to addvalue to the health and wellbeingprogramme.

Yr wyf yn falch o agor dadl heddiw ar hybuiechyd a lles. Canolbwyntiaf ar ddau beth: yngyntaf, y camau a gymerir i hybu iechyd alles ac, yn ail, y potensial i wneud mwy ardraws meysydd polisi’r Cynulliad fel campellach tuag at integreiddio polisïau arhaglenni er mwyn ychwanegu gwerth at yrhaglen iechyd a lles.

The document tabled with today’s motionsets out an extensive programme of actionover the next three years. It builds on theproposals for a national health promotionstrategy published for consultation earlier

Mae’r ddogfen a gyflwynwyd gyda chynnigheddiw yn nodi rhaglen weithredu eang drosy tair blynedd nesaf. Adeilada ar y cynigionar gyfer strategaeth hybu iechyd genedlaethola gyhoeddwyd ar gyfer ymgynghori yn

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this year, and on my July statement ‘Buildinga Healthier Future for Wales’. The feedbackthat we received welcomed the Assembly’sproactive approach as a framework for asustained and co-ordinated effort involvingpeople, communities and organisations. Themain issue from the feedback was the needfor additional investment. There was concernthat, without that, the strategy would simplybe fine words without the support to back itup. We have responded positively on that.

gynharach eleni, ac ar fy natganiad yngNgorffennaf sef ‘Adeiladu Dyfodol Iachachar gyfer Cymru’. Yr oedd yr atborth adderbyniasom yn croesawu ymagweddragweithiol y Cynulliad fel fframwaith argyfer ymdrech gynaliadwy a chydlynol afydd yn cynnwys pobl, cymunedau asefydliadau. Prif bwnc yr atborth oedd yrangen am fuddsoddi ychwanegol. Yr oeddpryder na fyddai’r strategaeth, heb hynny, ynddim mwy na geiriau teg heb y cymorth i’wcefnogi. Yr ydym wedi ymateb yngadarnhaol yn hynny o beth.

Subject to the Assembly’s decisions, thehealth promotion programmes budget willmore than double to just over £1.7 million.Additional investment will give a majorboost to the development of local healthalliances and health promotion in schools.We plan to increase the budget to tacklesmoking. We also plan support to addressinequalities in health with funding of £3million next year, rising to £6 million in2003-04. The programme contains action toaddress priorities such as smoking andhealthy eating, action to harness the fullpotential of schools to improve the health ofyoung people, and action to helpcommunities address issues that affectpeople’s health. It will promote health amongpeople and communities that are oftenexcluded and disregarded, such as black andethnic minorities, and among people who arevulnerable and disadvantaged. Local healthalliances will help reduce inequalities inhealth by strengthening local partnershipworking, by ensuring synergy between healthimprovement plans, the work of local healthgroups and community strategies.

Yn amodol ar benderfyniadau’r Cynulliad,bydd cyllideb y rhaglenni hybu iechyd ynmwy na dyblu i ychydig dros £1.7 miliwn.Bydd buddsoddi ychwanegol yn rhoi hwbfawr i ddatblygu cynghreiriau iechyd lleol ahybu iechyd mewn ysgolion. Bwriadwngynyddu’r gyllideb er mwyn mynd i’r afaelag ysmygu. Cynlluniwn hefyd gymorth ermwyn mynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldebauym maes iechyd gyda chyllid o £3 miliwn yflwyddyn nesaf, gan godi i £6 miliwn yn2003-04. Mae’r rhaglen yn cynnwys camau iroi sywl i flaenoriaethau megis ysmygu abwyta’n iach, camau i harneisio potensialllawn ysgolion er mwyn gwella iechyd poblifanc, a chamau i helpu cymunedau i roi sylwi faterion sydd yn effeithio ar iechyd pobl.Bydd yn hybu iechyd ymhlith pobl achymunedau a eithrir ac a ddiystyrir yn aml,megis lleiafrifoedd du ac ethnig, ac ymhlithpobl sydd yn ddiamddiffyn ac sydd dananfantais. Bydd cynghreiriau iechyd lleol ynhelpu i leihau anghydraddoldeb ym maesiechyd drwy gryfhau gwaith partneriaethlleol, drwy sicrhau synergedd rhwngcynlluniau gwella iechyd, gwaith grwpiauiechyd lleol a strategaethau cymunedol.

10:05 a.m.

As I have said, health improvement andreducing health inequalities are themes thatgo much wider than the health and socialservices portfolio. The belief that healthpromotion is the responsibility of the healthsector alone is outdated. The national healthservice has a major role in preventing ill-health, and the forthcoming national strategyfor the NHS in Wales will strengthen thatfurther. However, the Assembly’s other

Fel y dywedais, mae gwella iechyd a lleihauanghydraddoldebau ym maes iechyd ynthemâu sydd yn ehangach na’r portffolioiechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol. Mae’rgred mai cyfrifoldeb y sector iechyd yn unigyw hybu iechyd yn hen ffasiwn. Mae gan ygwasanaeth iechyd gwladol rôl amlwg wrthatal afiechyd, a bydd y strategaethgenedlaethol sydd ar ddod ar gyfer yr NHSyng Nghymru yn cryfhau hynny ymhellach.

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policy areas can make a major contributionto preventing ill-health, which will help toachieve our wider objectives, on sustainabledevelopment for example. Improving healthmeans not just addressing lifestyle, buttaking action on the lifestyle circumstancesthat give rise to poor health. A job, a decenthome, good education and an attractiveenvironment are all key determinants ofhealth. A strong framework is required tofocus on the underlying social, economic andenvironmental circumstances that affecthealth.

Fodd bynnag, gall meysydd polisi eraill yCynulliad wneud cyfraniad mawr at atalafiechyd, a fydd yn helpu i gyflawni einhamcanion ehangach, ar ddatblygucynaliadwy er enghraifft. Golyga gwellaiechyd nid yn unig roi sywl i ffordd o fyw,ond cymryd camau ar amgylchiadau’r fforddo fyw sydd yn arwain at iechyd gwael. Maeswydd, cartref safonol, addysg dda acamgylchedd deniadol i gyd yn ffactorauallweddol sydd yn penderfynu iechyd. Maeangen fframwaith cryf er mwyncanolbwyntio ar yr amgylchiadaucymdeithasol, economaidd ac amgylcheddolgwaelodol sydd yn effeithio ar iechyd.

Many individuals and organisations havetaken this message on board and are makinga significant contribution to our efforts toimprove health, but there is considerableuntapped potential. We can go much further.Economic development is one example. TheObjective 1 programme already supportsaction to promote healthier lifestyles, but ourhealth impact assessment shows its truepotential to address strategically the range ofsocial and economic factors that combine toaffect people’s health.

Mae llawer o unigolion a sefydliadau wedicymryd y neges hon o ddifrif ac yn gwneudcyfraniad sylweddol at ein hymdrechion iwella iechyd, ond mae cryn botensial heb eigyffwrdd. Gallwn fynd lawer ymhellach.Mae datblygu economaidd yn un enghraifft.Mae rhaglen Amcan 1 eisoes yn cefnogicamau i hybu ffyrdd iachach o fyw, ond maeein hasesiad o effaith iechyd yn dangos eigwir botensial i fynd i’r afael yn strategol â’ramrywiaeth o ffactorau cymdeithasol aceconomaidd sydd yn cyfuno i effeithio ariechyd pobl.

That poses a number of questions. How canwe integrate action to improve people’shealth into the national and local supportmechanisms that help people back intoemployment and training opportunities?What can be done to improve the health ofemployees as an integrated part of ourbusiness development and business supportinitiatives? The cost of avoidable ill-health tocompanies is considerable, and ill-healthdeprives the Welsh economy of valuableskills and experience. What opportunitiesexist in the policy areas of planning,transport and housing to harness newopportunities to improve health and toreinforce the importance of health? Whatmore can be done in communities to integrateaction on health as part of wider communityregeneration? Communities First is a majorstep forward for regenerating deprivedcommunities in Wales, and action to improvehealth is a core component. We need to makebest possible use, not just of Objective 1, but

Mae hynny’n codi nifer o gwestiynau. Sut ygallwn integreiddio camau i wella iechydpobl â’r dulliau cefnogi cenedlaethol a lleolsydd yn helpu pobl yn ôl i waith achyfleoedd hyfforddi? Beth y gellir ei wneudi wella iechyd gweithwyr fel rhan integredigo’n mentrau datblygu busnes a chefnogibusnesau? Mae cost salwch y gellir ei osgoi igwmnïau yn sylweddol, ac mae salwch ynamddifadu economi Cymru o sgiliau aphrofiad gwerthfawr. Pa gyfleoedd sydd ynbodoli ym meysydd polisi cynllunio,trafnidiaeth a thai i harneisio cyfleoeddnewydd er mwyn gwella iechyd acatgyfnerthu pwysigrwydd iechyd? Beth ynrhagor y gellir ei wneud mewn cymunedau ermwyn integreiddio camau ar iechyd fel rhano’r broses o adfywio cymunedau ehangach?Mae Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn gammawr ymlaen o ran adfywio cymunedaudifreintiedig yng Nghymru, ac mae camau iwella iechyd yn elfen graidd. Mae angen inniwneud y defnydd gorau posibl, nid yn unig o

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of the support available from the newopportunities fund. In St Mellons, forexample, the new opportunities fund issupporting community health developmentby increasing the capacity for local action toimprove people’s health and by engaging thecommunity in planning that action. We mustdevelop health as part of our lifelonglearning agenda. Improving people’sknowledge and access to information isessential if we are to encourage people totake greater responsibility for their ownhealth and to take positive action to improvetheir health and that of their families.

Amcan 1, ond o’r cymorth sydd ar gael odu’r gronfa cyfleoedd newydd. YnLlaneirwg, er enghraifft, mae’r gronfacyfleoedd newydd yn cefnogi datblyguiechyd cymunedol drwy gynyddu’rposibilrwydd o gymryd camau i wella iechydpobl yn lleol a thrwy ymrwymo’r gymunedwrth gynllunio’r camau hynny. Rhaid inniddatblygu iechyd fel rhan o’n hagenda dysgugydol oes. Mae gwella gwybodaeth pobl a’umynediad i wybodaeth yn hanfodol os ydymam annog pobl i ymgymryd â chyfrifoldebmwy dros eu hiechyd eu hunain ac i gymrydcamau cadarnhaol i wella eu hiechyd hwya’u teuluoedd.

Today’s motion highlights the programme’scontribution to a co-ordinated and sustainedeffort within the framework set by thenational health promotion strategy. It urgesSubject Committees to consider the impact oftheir policies, thus helping to identify newopportunities to promote health across policyareas. Jocelyn Davies’s amendment 1 buildson that. It highlights the importance of a co-ordinated approach and targeted investment.The strategy and the action programmecapture those themes, together with thedocuments mentioned in amendment 1. I willbe pleased to support that amendment. Otherdevelopments could be added to that list,such as Communities First. David Melding’samendments 2 and 3 highlight keydeterminants of health—lifestyle choices onthe one hand, and socio-economic factors onthe other. I will also support thoseamendments. The strategy and theprogramme reflect the importance of actionto promote healthy lifestyles, but as part ofwider action to address the socio-economicdeterminants of health.

Mae cynnig heddiw yn amlygu cyfraniad yrhaglen at ymdrech gydlynol a chynaliadwy ofewn y fframwaith a bennwyd gan ystrategaeth hybu iechyd genedlaethol. Mae’nannog Pwyllgorau Pwnc i ystyried effaith eupolisïau, a thrwy hynny helpu i nodicyfleoedd newydd i hybu iechyd ar drawsmeysydd polisi. Mae gwelliant 1 JocelynDavies yn adeiladu ar hynny. Mae’n amlygupwysigrwydd ymagwedd gydlynol abuddsoddiad wedi’i dargedu. Mae’rstrategaeth a’r rhaglen weithredu yncwmpasu’r themâu hynny, ynghyd â’rdogfennau a grybwyllir yng ngwelliant 1.Byddaf yn falch o gefnogi’r gwellianthwnnw. Gellid ychwanegu datblygiadaueraill at y rhestr honno, megis RhoiCymunedau’n Gyntaf. Mae gwelliannau 2 a 3David Melding yn amlygu ffactorauallweddol sydd yn penderfynu iechyd—dewisiadau o ran ffordd o fyw ar y naill law,a ffactorau cymdeithasol economaidd ar yllall. Cefnogaf y gwelliannau hynny hefyd.Mae’r strategaeth a’r rhaglen yn adlewyrchupwysigrwydd gweithredu er mwyn hybuffyrdd iach o fyw, ond fel rhan o brosesweithredu ehangach i fynd i’r afael â’rffactorau cymdeithasol economaidd sydd ynpenderfynu iechyd.

Over and above looking for newopportunities to promote health, we mustalso think differently. Exercise, for example,is an essential element of a healthy lifestyle.Not only does it help to reduce the risk ofheart disease, it also contributes to mentalwellbeing. Sport has a role to play, but it is

Yn ychwanegol at edrych am gyfleoeddnewydd i hybu iechyd, rhai inni hefyd feddwlyn wahanol. Mae ymarfer corff, er enghraifft,yn elfen hanfodol o ffordd iach o fyw. Nid ynunig y mae’n helpu i leihau’r perygl o glefydy galon, mae hefyd yn cyfrannu at lesmeddyliol. Mae gan chwaraeon rôl i’w

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even more important that we find new waysof encouraging people to build exercise intotheir daily lives, as part of their working dayor as part of their leisure time, whilerecognising that, if you are poor, excluded,depressed, lacking in hope or opportunity,this may sound like pie in the sky. Childrenlike to play in the streets and parks, but ifthose places were safer, more children wouldbe out and about and not afraid of walking toschool. Let us remember that promoting playis more fundamental than just providingplaygrounds.

chwarae, ond mae hyd yn oed yn bwysicachein bod yn dod o hyd i ffyrdd newydd oannog pobl i gynnwys ymarfer corff yn eubywydau bob dydd, fel rhan o’u diwrnodgwaith neu fel rhan o’u hamser hamdden,tra’n cydnabod bod hyn, os ydych yn dlawd,wedi’ch eithrio, yn isel eich ysbryd, ynddiobaith neu’n ddigyfle, efallai yn swnio felbreuddwyd gwrach. Mae plant yn hoffichwarae ar y strydoedd ac yn y parciau, ondos byddai’r mannau hynny yn fwy diogel,byddai mwy o blant o gwmpas y lle heb fodarnynt ofn cerdded i’r ysgol. Gadewch innigofio fod hybu chwarae yn fwy sylfaenol nadarparu ardaloedd chwarae yn unig.

Some progress has been made in gettingpeople to eat less fat and more fruit andvegetables. However, more needs to be done.For that reason, I have asked the FoodStandards Agency to develop a nutritionstrategy for Wales. This will help people inour most disadvantaged communities whosediets are often less healthy than those ofother people in Wales because of problemsof access, availability and the affordability ofhealthy foods.

Gwnaethpwyd rhywfaint o gynnydd wrthgael pobl i fwyta llai o fraster a mwy offrwythau a llysiau. Fodd bynnag, mae angengwneud mwy. Am y rheswm hwnnw,gofynnais i’r Asiantaeth Safonau Bwydddatblygu strategaeth faeth ar gyfer Cymru.Bydd hyn yn helpu pobl yn ein cymunedaumwyaf difreintiedig y mae eu deiet yn aml ynllai iach na deiet pobl eraill yng Nghymruoherwydd problemau mynediad, argaeledda’r gallu i fforddio bwydydd iach.

Poor nutrition pre-pregnancy and duringpregnancy can not only affect birth andsubsequent outcomes, but also susceptibilityto heart disease in adulthood. That is alsotrue of poor nutrition in early childhood. Thenational service framework for coronaryheart disease, which we have alreadydiscussed this morning, includes national andlocal programmes for healthy eating andexercise, which are vital to prevent heartdisease and cancer and to ensure wellbeing.However, we need to extend our approach toharness all possible opportunities.

Gall maeth gwael cyn beichiogrwydd ac ynystod beichiogrwydd nid yn unig effeithio aryr enedigaeth a chanlyniadau dilynol, ondhefyd ar dueddiad i glefyd y galon pan ynoedolyn. Mae hynny hefyd yn wir am faethgwael yn ystod plentyndod cynnar. Mae’rfframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol ar gyferclefyd coronaidd y galon, yr ydym eisoeswedi ei drafod y bore yma, yn cynnwysrhaglenni cenedlaethol a lleol ar gyferbwyta’n iach ac ymarfer corff, sydd ynhanfodol i atal clefyd y galon a chanser ac isicrhau lles. Fodd bynnag, mae angen inniymestyn ein hymagwedd i harneisio pobcyfle posibl.

In setting the scene for today’s debate, I haveemphasised not only the importance of ourhealth improvement programme but thepotential of other programmes and policies toassist in our efforts to improve health andreduce inequality. Subject Committees havea key role in considering the impact of theirpolicies and programmes on health and inidentifying opportunities for more integrated

Wrth osod y sefyllfa ar gyfer dadl heddiw,pwysleisiais nid yn unig bwysigrwydd einrhaglen gwella iechyd ond potensialrhaglenni a pholisïau eraill i gynorthwyo ynein hymdrechion i wella iechyd a lleihauanghyfartaledd. Mae gan Bwyllgorau Pwncrôl allweddol wrth ystyried effaith eupolisïau a’u rhaglenni ar iechyd ac wrth nodicyfleoedd am gamau mwy integredig. Rhaid i

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action. All of us in the Assembly mustembrace that to ensure a healthier future forWales.

bawb ohonom yn y Cynulliad groesawuhynny er mwyn sicrhau dyfodol iachach iGymru.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: I call onDavid Lloyd to propose amendment 1, tabledin the name of Jocelyn Davies.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Galwaf ar David Lloydi gynnig gwelliant 1, a gyflwynwyd yn enwJocelyn Davies.

David Lloyd: Cynigiaf welliant 1.Ychwanegu cymal 3 newydd, ac ailrifogweddill y pwyntiau yn unol â hynny:

David Lloyd: I propose amendment 1. Addas new clause 3 and renumber the remainingpoints accordingly:

yn cydnabod bod llwyddiant tymor hir ystrategaeth hon yn dibynnu ar ddatblyguymagwedd gydlynol at iechyd a lles ar drawsholl raglenni’r Cynulliad. Yn benodol, foddbynnag, bydd yn dibynnu ar gyflawni’ramcanion cysylltiedig a gynhwysir mewndogfennau pwysig megis y strategaethauiechyd meddwl, y strategaeth camddefnyddiosylweddau, y strategaeth iechyd rhyw a’rfframwaith strategol ar gyfer plant a phoblifanc sydd ar y gweill ar hyn o bryd. Felly,mae’r Cynulliad yn cydnabod yr angendybryd am fuddsoddi wedi’i dargedu, syddyn gysylltiedig â rhaglenni gweithreduymarferol.

recognises that the long-term success of thisstrategy is dependent on a co-ordinatedapproach to health and wellbeing becomingevident across the range of the Assembly’sprogrammes. In particular, however, it willbe linked to the achievement of the relatedaims of such important documents as themental health strategies, the substancemisuse strategy, the sexual health strategyand the forthcoming strategic framework forchildren and young people. The Assemblytherefore recognises the pressing need fortargeted investment linked to practicalprogrammes of action.

Yn naturiol, yr ydym fel plaid yn croesawu’rddadl hon a geiriau Jane y bore yma.Datganaf fuddiant fel meddyg a chynghoryddsir ar Gyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe.

Naturally, we as a party welcome this debateand Jane’s words this morning. I declare aninterest as a doctor and a county councillorof Swansea City and County Council.

Euthum i mewn i lywodraeth leol felcynghorydd sir, wedi imi sylweddoli eichyfraniad allweddol i iechyd ac i atalafiechyd. Llywodraeth leol sydd yn gyfrifolam dai, ac mae cyflwr ein tai yn dylanwadu’ndrwm ar ein hiechyd; yn wir mae’n ganologiddo. Mae hefyd yn gyfrifol am drafnidiaetha’r angen dybryd i ehangu trafnidiaethgyhoeddus gan fod naw o bobl yn marw arffyrdd Prydain bob dydd mewn damweiniauceir.

I entered local government as a countycouncillor, having realised its crucialcontribution to health and the prevention ofdisease. Local government is responsible forhousing, and the state of our houses heavilyinfluences our health; indeed it is central toit. It is also responsible for transport and thepressing need to expand public transportsince nine people die on Britain’s roadsevery day in car accidents.

Llywodraeth leol hefyd sydd yn gyfrifol amfaterion iechyd yr amgylchedd. Fodd bynnag,nid awn ar ôl mater safle tirlenwiNantygwyddon heddiw. Mae llywodraethleol yn gyfrifol am wasanaethaucymdeithasol. Dyna pam y datganaf fuddiantfel cynghorydd sir yn ogystal ag fel meddyg.Mae gan lywodraeth leol rôl ganolog mewn

Local government is also responsible forenvironmental health matters. However, wewill not pursue the matter of theNantygwyddon landfill site today. Localgovernment is reponsible for social services.That is why I declare an interest as a countycouncillor as well as a doctor. Localgovernment has a central role in promoting

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hybu iechyd y tu allan i’r gwasanaeth iechyd. health outside of the health service.

Fel meddyg, ac mae hyn yn wir am weithwyreraill yn y gwasanaeth iechyd hefyd, yr wyfyn meddwl am iechyd mewn termau eang. Yrydym yn meddwl am iechyd mewn termaucorfforol, ond hefyd mewn termauseicolegol, cymdeithasol ac ysbrydol. Maeagweddau eang i iechyd, ac mae anhwyldermewn unrhyw un o’r agweddau hynny yngallu peri salwch. Nid mater o salwchcorfforol yn unig ydyw; mae agweddauseicolegol, cymdeithasol ac ysbrydol ariechyd yr un mor bwysig. Maent yn rhoiiechyd inni.

As a doctor, and this is also true of otherhealth service workers, I think of health inbroad terms. We think of health in physicalterms, but also in psychological, sociologicaland spiritual terms. There are broad aspectsto health, and malaise in any of those aspectscan result in illness. It is not just a matter ofphysical illness; the psychological,sociological and spiritual aspects of healthare equally important. They keep us healthy.

Wrth edrych ar iechyd yr unigolyn, maecamau y gallwn ni, fel unigolion, eu cymryd.Clywsom eisoes y bore yma na ddylemysmygu. Mae 7,000 o farwolaethau yflwyddyn o achos ysmygu yng Nghymru, a110,000 o farwolaethau y flwyddyn ymMhrydain. Gallwn hefyd fwyta’n iach,gwneud ymarfer corff ac addysgu ein hunain.Mae addysg yn rhan o’r strategaeth iechydsydd ger ein bron heddiw.

In considering the health of the individual,there are steps that we, as individuals, cantake. We have already heard this morningthat we should not smoke. There are 7,000deaths per year as a result of smoking inWales, and 110,000 deaths per year inBritain. We can also eat healthily, exerciseand educate ourselves. Education is a part ofthe health strategy before us today.

Mae materion sydd y tu allan i’n rheolaeth,megis ein genynnau a’n hanes meddygolteuluol. Mae ffactorau eraill yn dylanwadu ariechyd yr unigolyn; er enghraifft, ffactoraucymdeithasol ac economaidd. Tlodi yw’r prifffactor sydd wedi rhoi i’n gwlad, yn gysondros genedlaethau, yr ystadegau iechydgwaethaf.

There are matters beyond our control, such asour genes and family medical history. Otherfactors influence individuals’ health; forexample, social and economic factors.Poverty is the main factor that has given ourcountry, consistently over generations, theworst health statistics.

10:15 a.m.

Tlodi sydd yn peri bod unrhyw salwch ynfwy cyffredin yma yng Nghymru a bodeffaith unrhyw salwch ar yr unigolyn ynwaeth os yw’r unigolyn yn dlawd hefyd.Felly, mae canlyniad trawiad ar y galon ynwaeth os ydych yn dlawd. Mae effaith strôcyn waeth os ydych yn dlawd. Mewnastudiaeth ddiweddar o’r Alban maecanlyniadau triniaeth am ganser y fron 15 ycant yn waeth mewn ardaloedd tlawd,ddifreintiedig, o’u cymharu â’r hyn sydd ynarferol yn awr mewn ardaloedd mwyllewyrchus.

Poverty means that any illness is moreprevalent here in Wales, and that the effect ofany illness is worse on the individual if thatindividual is poor. Therefore, theconsequences of a heart attack are worse ifyou are poor. The effect of a stroke is worseif you are poor. In a recent study fromScotland, breast cancer treatment results are15 per cent lower in poor, deprived areas,compared to the current averages in moreprosperous areas.

Mae hyn i gyd yn tanseilio’n gyfan gwbl y All of this totally undermines the recent

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gwelliant diweddar o 15 y cant mewncanlyniadau trin canser y fron oherwyddgwelliannau mewn triniaethau a sgrinio.Mae’r gwelliannau mewn canlyniadau trincanser y fron yn cael eu tanseilio’n gyfangwbl mewn ardaloedd tlawd. Nid tlodi’n unigsydd yn dylanwadu’n anffafriol ar iechydond hefyd anghyfartaledd incwm o fewn yrun ardal. Mae astudiaeth o Unol DaleithiauAmerica, a gyhoeddwyd yn y British MedicalJournal yr wythnos diwethaf, yn dangosgraddfa uchel o iselder ysbryd ac afiechydcorfforol mewn ardaloedd tlawd,difreintiedig; ond yr oedd mwy o iselder acafiechyd corfforol mewn ardaloedd tlawd aoedd nesaf at ardaloedd llewyrchus. Lle nadoedd gwahaniaeth yn y tlodi, yr unigwahaniaeth oedd pa un a oedd cyfoeth y drwsnesaf. Hynny yw, yr anghyfartaledd a oeddyn peri bod mwy o salwch. Yr oedd y tlodiyr un fath.

improvement of 15 per cent in breast cancertreatment results achieved as a result ofimprovement in treatment and screening. Theimprovements in breast cancer treatmentresults are being totally undermined in poorerareas. It is not only poverty that influenceshealth unfavourably but also inequality ofincome in the same area. A study from theUnited States of America, published in theBritish Medical Journal last week, showed ahigh degree of depression and physical ill-health in poor, deprived areas; but there wasmore depression and physical illness in poorareas adjacent to prosperous areas. Wherethere was no difference in poverty levels, theonly difference was whether there waswealth in an adjacent area. That is, the higherlevels of illness were due to the inequality.The poverty was the same.

Os edrychwn ar ystadegau iechydrhyngwladol, y gwledydd tlawd, fel y gelliddisgwyl, sydd â’r ystadegau iechyd gwaethaf.Fodd bynnag, nid y gwledydd cyfoethocafsydd â’r iechyd gorau, ond y gwledyddhynny sydd â’r lefelau incwm mwyafcyfartal: gwledydd Llychlyn, er enghraifft. Ygwledydd hynny sydd â’r iechyd gorau. Ynamlwg, mae agosatrwydd cymdeithasol ynrôl berthnasol yn hyn o beth; ac mae rhagor ofaes ymchwil yn gysylltiedig â hynny.

If we look at international health statistics,the poorest countries, as one would expect,have the worst health statistics. However, thewealthiest countries are not the healthiest,but those countries with the least inequalityin income: the Scandinavian countries, forexample. Those are the healthiest countries.Evidently, social cohesion has a part to playin this; and more research needs to beundertaken in this field.

Pwyslais adroddiad Black yn 1980 oedd rôlffactorau cymdeithasol—megis tai gwael,tlodi a diweithdra—mewn achosi afiechyd.Hwnnw yw’r adroddiad a fu’n casglu llwch,ar silff, o dan Lywodraeth Geidwadol o 1980ymlaen: Llywodraeth a oedd yn gwaduunrhyw gysylltiad rhwng ffactoraucymdeithasol ac afiechyd. Felly, yn naturiol,croesawn dröedigaeth David Melding ar ypwynt hwn, fel y gwelir yng ngwelliant 2 ynei enw.

The Black report published in 1980concentrated on the role of social factors—such as poor housing, poverty andunemployment—in causing ill-health. Thatreport was left to gather dust on a shelf bythe Conservative Government from 1980onwards: a Government that denied that therewas any link at all between sociologicalfactors and ill-health. Therefore, we naturallywelcome David Melding’s conversion on thispoint, as shown in amendment 2 in his name.

I gloi’r drafodaeth hon ar hybu iechyd alles—bydd Geraint Davies a Brian Hancockyn mynd fwy ar ôl manylion y strategaeth—yr ydym yn croesawu’r ddogfen hon, ondmae angen buddsoddi digonol i wireddu’rstrategaeth, ac mae angen i bawb, ynunigolion, awdurdodau iechyd, a’r sector

To conclude this discussion on the promotionof health and wellbeing—Geraint Davies andBrian Hancock will address further thedetails of the strategy—we welcome thisdocument but sufficient investment is neededto make sure that this strategy bears fruit, andeveryone, individuals, health authorities, and

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gwirfoddol, feddwl yn nhermau hybu iechydar draws meysydd portffolio fel y mae Janewedi crybwyll eisoes. Felly, mae gennym igyd gyfraniad i’w wneud i hybu iechyd: yrunigolyn drwy beidio ag ysmygu a thrwyfwyta’n iach ac ymarfer corff; a llywodraethleol drwy ymdrin â strategaeth dai athrafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Er bod llawer o hyny tu allan i’r gwasanaeth iechyd, mae rôlganolog gan y gwasanaeth yn y dasg o hybuiechyd yn ogystal â thrin afiechyd. Mae rôlhefyd gan y Llywodraeth yn y Cynulliad.Mae her sylweddol o’i blaen i fynd i’r afael âthlodi, hybu economi ein gwlad a chreuswyddi sydd yn adeiladu hunan-barch aphwrpas ymhlith ein pobl.

the voluntary sector, need to think in terms ofhealth promotion across portfolio areas asJane has already mentioned. Therefore, weall have a contribution to make in promotinghealth: the individual by not smoking, byeating healthily and exercising; and localgovernment by dealing with housing andpublic transport strategies. Although much ofthis is outside the health service, the servicehas a central role in health promotion as wellas in treating ill-health. The Government inthe Assembly also has a role. There is asubstantial challenge before it to tacklepoverty, promote our country’s economy,and create jobs that create self respect andpurpose among our people.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Before I callDavid Melding, I wish to repeat what thePresiding Officer said, that the Minister forEnvironment will make a statement afterDavid Melding has spoken. Would it bepossible to broadcast a notice on thetelevision monitors so that Members absentfrom the Chamber will have notice of thestatement? We must ensure in future thatMembers are given notice of statementsmade out of normal times. I call DavidMelding to propose amendments 2 and 3, inhis name.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Cyn imi alw ar DavidMelding, hoffwn ailadrodd yr hyn addywedodd y Llywydd, sef y bydd yGweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd yn gwneuddatganiad ar ôl i David Melding siarad. Afuasai’n bosibl darlledu hysbysiad ar ymonitorau teledu er mwyn i’r Aelodau syddyn absennol o’r Siambr gael eu hysbysu am ydatganiad? Rhaid inni sicrhau yn y dyfodolyr hysbysir yr Aelodau am ddatganiadau awneir y tu allan i amserau arferol. Galwaf arDavid Melding i gynnig gwelliannau 2 a 3,yn ei enw.

David Melding: I propose amendment 2.Insert after first clause:

David Melding: Cynigiaf welliant 2.Ychwanegu ar ôl y cymal cyntaf:

acknowledges the central contributionindividuals can make to promoting theirhealth and wellbeing through healthylifestyle choices.

yn cydnabod y cyfraniad hanfodol y gallunigolion ei wneud i hyrwyddo’u hiechyd a’ulles drwy ddewis ffyrdd iach o fyw.

I also propose amendment 3. Insert aftersecond clause:

Cynigiaf hefyd welliant 3. Ychwanegu ar ôlyr ail gymal:

recognises the importance of socio-economicfactors on the health profile of communitiesand the resulting implications for healthpromotion measures.

yn cydnabod pwysigrwydd ffactoraucymdeithasol-economaidd i broffil iechydcymunedau, a goblygiadau hynny ar fesurauhybu iechyd.

The Welsh Conservative Party is pleased tosupport this motion and the amendments. Iam pleased that the two previous speakershave recognised the central importance thatindividuals have in making healthy lifestylechoices. It is important for the individual’s

Mae Plaid Geidwadol Cymru yn falch ogefnogi’r cynnig hwn a’r gwelliannau. Yrwyf yn falch bod y ddau siaradwr blaenorolwedi cydnabod y pwysigrwydd canolog syddgan unigolion wrth wneud dewisiadau fforddiach o fyw. Mae’n bwysig o ran urddas yr

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dignity that we always keep that at the heartof our strategy, and I endorse the remarksthat have already been made, and welcomethe fact that all groups will support ouramendments.

unigolyn ein bod yn cadw hynny bob amserwrth galon ein strategaeth, a chymeradwyaf ysylwadau a wnaethpwyd eisoes, a chroesawafy ffaith y bydd pob grŵp yn cefnogi eingwelliannau.

However, these choices are made within asocio-economic context. I am happy torespond to Dai Lloyd and say that we mustexplicitly acknowledge that the health of thepeople of Wales is well below the EuropeanUnion average. Health levels in our mostdeprived communities are at the bottom ofthe European league table. That is a fact andit would be irresponsible to ignore it, and itwould be bad policy not to emphasise thiselement of the health climate. It is importantthat it is at the centre of our strategy.

Fodd bynnag, gwneir y dewisiadau hyn ofewn cyd-destun cymdeithasol-economaidd.Mae’n bleser gennyf ymateb i Dai Lloyd adweud bod yn rhaid inni gydnabod yn agoredbod iechyd pobl Cymru ymhell islawcyfartaledd yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Maelefelau iechyd yn ein cymunedau mwyafdifreintiedig ar waelod y tabl cynghrairEwropeaidd. Mae hynny’n ffaith a buasai’nanghyfrifol ei hanwybyddu, a buasai’n bolisigwael peidio â phwysleisio’r elfen hon o’rhinsawdd iechyd. Mae’n bwysig ei bod yngnghanol ein strategaeth.

Dai referred to the views of a former UKConservative administration. It has neverbeen our policy to deny that socio-economicfactors influence health: it is clear fromstatistics that they do. Perhaps there is acriticism of a lack of emphasis, but theConservative Government of 1980 had torestore an economy that was absolutely on itslast legs. In transforming the economy, itraised the socio-economic standing of thepeople of Britain as a whole. That is our aim.That is what we did. Health statisticsimproved throughout our term of office. Thatis not to deny that we still have a long way togo.

Cyfeiriodd Dai at farn cyn-weinyddiaethGeidwadol yn y DU. Ni fu erioed yn bolisigennym i wadu bod ffactorau cymdeithasol-economaidd yn dylanwadu ar iechyd: mae’nglir o’r ystadegau eu bod yn gwneud hynny.Efallai bod beirniadaeth o ran diffygpwyslais, ond bu’n rhaid i LywodraethGeidwadol 1980 adfer economi a oedd arddiffygio’n llwyr. Wrth drawsnewid yreconomi, cododd statws cymdeithasol-economaidd pobl Prydain yn gyffredinol.Dyna ein nod. Dyna a wnaethom. Gwelloddyr ystadegau iechyd drwy gydol ein tymormewn grym. Ni olyga hynny ein bod yngwadu bod gennym ffordd bell i fynd o hyd.

Dafydd Wigley: Can you confirm, therefore,that the new, reinvented Michael Portillo willhave redistribution of wealth at the centre ofhis policies?

Dafydd Wigley: A allwch gadarnhau, felly,y bydd ailddosbarthu cyfoeth wrth wraiddpolisïau’r Michael Portillo newydd, syddwedi’i ailddyfeisio?

David Melding: The Conservative Party is aparty for all the people of Britain, as MrPortillo has made clear. We believe inwealth, and we believe that everyone oughtto aspire to a comfortable living. That isalways the aim of our policies. When peoplehave a level of economic stability, all thehealth factors improve. That is important forpeople wherever they live, whatever theirjob, whatever their level of income. We needto increase wealth. That is why we arealways keen to remember the importance of

David Melding: Mae’r Blaid Geidwadol ynblaid i holl bobl Prydain, fel y gwnaeth MrPortillo yn glir. Credwn mewn cyfoeth, achredwn y dylai pawb ymgeisio at fyw’ngyfforddus. Dyna nod ein polisïau bobamser. Pan fydd gan bobl lefel osefydlogrwydd economaidd, mae’r ffactorauiechyd i gyd yn gwella. Mae hynny ynbwysig i bobl lle bynnag y maent yn byw,beth bynnag eu swydd, pa lefel bynnag ybo’u hincwm. Mae angen inni gynydducyfoeth. Dyna pam yr ydym yn awyddus bob

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technological innovation and economicgrowth when we talk about sustainabledevelopment.

amser i gofio pwysigrwydd dyfeisgarwchtechnolegol a thŵf economaidd wrth siaradam ddatblygu cynaliadwy.

Clearly, much needs to be done. There hasbeen some encouraging progress identifiedby the Chief Medical Officer in relation toheart disease and some cancers. However,there has been a standstill or a deteriorationon low birth weights, back pain, arthritis,smoking, alcohol consumption and oralhealth. I am not criticising the administrationhere, these facts would have been identifiedwhoever was in government, but it does showhow much work needs to be done.

Yn amlwg, mae angen gwneud llawer. Burhywfaint o gynnydd calonogol a nodwydgan y Prif Swyddog Meddygol mewnperthynas â chlefyd y galon a rhai canserau.Fodd bynnag, ni fu cynnydd, yn wir budirywiad, o ran pwysau isel babanod a enir,poen cefn, arthritis, ysmygu, yfed alcohol aiechyd y geg. Ni feirniadaf y weinyddiaethyma, buasai’r ffeithiau hyn wedi dod i’rwyneb pwy bynnag fuasai mewn grym, ondmae’n dangos cymaint o waith sydd angen eiwneud.

Much of the strategy can be warmlyendorsed. I am particularly pleased to see thefollowing areas: the cross-sectoral approach,which is perhaps a clunky piece of jargonand means co-operation betweengovernment, local and central, the NHS,employers—it is good to see that emphasisedin the document—schools, a subject to whichI will return shortly, communities and, ofcourse, individuals themselves. They all havea role to play in promoting health andwellbeing.

Gellir cymeradwyo llawer o’r strategaeth ynfawr. Yr wyf yn arbennig o falch o weld ymeysydd canlynol: yr ymagwedd draws-sectoraidd, sydd efallai yn ddarn trwsgl ojargon ac sydd yn golygu cydweithredurhwng y llywodraeth, yn lleol ac yn ganolog,yr NHS, cyflogwyr—mae’n dda gweld hynnyyn cael ei bwysleisio yn y ddogfen—ysgolion, pwnc y dychwelaf ato cyn hir,cymunedau ac, wrth gwrs, unigolion euhunain. Mae gan bob un ohonynt rôl i’wchwarae wrth hybu iechyd a lles.

10:25 a.m.

One of the main responses to the consultationwas the need for more investment. I am gladthat the report recommends that that must betaken forward, because in the past, prioritywas not always given to the role of healthpromotion and wellbeing. The NHS strategywill be launched in Wales in January. I amsure that it will reflect the priority of healthpromotion and the financial need to increasethe level of resources to ensure that thatstrategy can be taken forward thoroughly.

Un o’r prif ymatebion i’r ymgynghoriad oeddyr angen am fwy o fuddsoddi. Yr wyf ynfalch fod yr adroddiad yn argymell bod ynrhaid datblygu hynny, oherwydd yn ygorffennol, ni roddwyd blaenoriaeth i rôlhybu iechyd a lles bob amser. Lansirstrategaeth yr NHS yng Nghymru yn Ionawr.Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd yn adlewyrchublaenoriaeth hybu iechyd a’r angen ariannol igynyddu lefel yr adnoddau i sicrhau y gellirdatblygu’r strategaeth honno yn drwyadl.

The role of the voluntary sector isrecognised. That is appropriate, particularlywhen we consider support groups for peoplewho have certain conditions and diseases.The role of the voluntary sector incommunities is vital. When we discussimproving the capacity of communities toimprove the standard of living economically,and across a wide cultural range, includingliteracy standards and education, the

Cydnabyddir rôl y sector gwirfoddol. Maehynny yn briodol, yn arbennig pan ystyriwngrwpiau cymorth i bobl sydd yn dioddef ogyflyrau ac afiechydon penodol. Mae rôl ysector gwirfoddol mewn cymunedau ynhanfodol. Pan drafodwn wella gallucymunedau i wella safon byw yneconomaidd, ac ar draws ystod ddiwylliannoleang, gan gynnwys safonau llythrennedd acaddysg, mae’r sector gwirfoddol yn aml yn

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voluntary sector is often better and moreefficient and nearer the grass roots level thanGovernment agencies. That must beremembered.

well ac yn fwy effeithlon ac yn agosach atlefel llawr gwlad nag asiantaethau’rLlywodraeth. Rhaid cofio hynny.

I welcome the references to carers in thedocument. Carers and young carers, inparticular, explicitly recognise that they areat a greater risk of suffering ill-health. Icould mention, for instance, mental health.Carers have a great propensity to suffermental health problems. They also have agreater propensity to suffer from accidentsand injury due to carrying the patients andhelping them in and out of baths or up anddown stairs. All these things must berecognised.

Croesawaf y cyfeiriadau at gynhalwyr yn yddogfen. Mae cynhalwyr a chynhalwyr ifanc,yn benodol, yn cydnabod yn agored eu bodmewn mwy o berygl o ddioddef salwch.Gallwn grybwyll, er enghraifft, iechydmeddwl. Mae tuedd fawr i gynhalwyrddioddef problemau iechyd meddwl. Maentyn fwy tueddol hefyd i ddioddef damweiniauac anafiadau drwy gario’r cleifion a’u helpu imewn ac allan o faddonau neu i fyny ac ilawr y grisiau. Rhaid cydnabod y pethau hyni gyd.

I will mention two aspects of the strategy inparticular, schools and mental health.Perhaps one of the greatest aspects of thehealth promotion policy for the health offuture generations is that we get healthpromotion and wellbeing right in schools.There are several areas in which schoolscannot be bettered by any other approachthan a battering ram to change individualbehaviour and to break peer group pressure,where that seems to be a factor and a barrier.For example, anti-smoking measures. Thereare two elements in this. Stopping youngpeople from smoking is perhaps the firstpriority. Most smokers have started to smokeby the age of 16. Few people start smokingwhen they are adults. Therefore,discouraging young people from smoking isclearly important. I referred earlier in aquestion to the Minister for Health andSocial Services that 70 per cent of peoplewho are presented for cardiac surgery aresmokers. There is a huge health gain instopping people from smoking. However, wemust remember the growing efficacy ofsmoking cessation measures. It is sometimesdifficult to prescribe these measures to youngpeople. We need to develop a policy andissue guidance that will allow young peopleaccess to the growing range of smokingcessation treatments that are available. It isimportant that we do not simply encouragepeople with good habits, but identify thosewho start smoking when they are young andencourage them to try to give up.

Crybwyllaf ddwy agwedd ar y strategaeth ynbenodol, sef ysgolion a iechyd meddwl.Efallai mai un o’r agweddau mwyaf ar ypolisi hybu iechyd ar gyfer iechydcenedlaethau i’r dyfodol yw ein bod ynymdrin yn iawn â hybu iechyd a lles mewnysgolion. Mae nifer o feysydd lle na ellirgwella ysgolion drwy unrhyw ymagweddarall heblaw dyrnhwrdd i newid ymddygiadunigol a thorri ar bwysau cymheiriaid, lleymddengys hynny yn ffactor ac yn rhwystr.Er enghraifft, mesurau gwrth-ysmygu. Maedwy elfen yn hyn. Atal pobl ifanc rhagysmygu yw’r flaenoriaeth gyntaf efallai.Mae’r rhan fwyaf o ysmygwyr wedi dechrauysmygu erbyn 16 oed. Prin yw’r bobl sydd yndechrau ysmygu pan fyddant yn oedolion.Felly, yn amlwg, mae annog pobl ifanc ibeidio ag ysmygu yn bwysig. Cyfeiriais yngynharach mewn cwestiwn i’r Gweinidogdros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasolbod 70 y cant o bobl a gyflwynir amlawdriniaeth ar y galon yn ysmygu. Mae elwenfawr o ran iechyd i atal pobl rhag ysmygu.Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni gofioeffeithiolrwydd cynyddol mesurau atalysmygu. Weithiau mae’n anodd rhagnodi’rmesurau hyn i bobl ifanc. Mae angen inniddatblygu polisi a chyhoeddi arweiniad afydd yn caniatáu i bobl ifanc gael mynediadi’r amrywiaeth gynyddol o driniaethau atalysmygu sydd ar gael. Mae’n bwysig ein bodnid yn unig yn annog pobl ag arferion da, ondyn nodi’r rheini sydd yn dechrau ysmygu panyn ifanc ac yn eu hannog i geisio rhoi’r gorau

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iddo.

Nutrition is a vital area. People who eat well,particularly in their early years, butthroughout life have a lower chance ofsuffering serious disease. Good habits can beacquired in schools, not only the importanceof a balanced diet, but how to get a balanceddiet, in terms of where you purchase foodand how you prepare that food. How toprepare certain vegetables is sometimes amystery to people. We must recognise that. Itis intimidating for people to go to the greengrocer or supermarket, if they have access—which is another problem—and see thevegetables, but not realise how to preparethem and how delicious they are.

Mae maeth yn faes hanfodol. Mae pobl syddyn bwyta’n dda, yn arbennig yn eublynyddoedd cynnar, ond drwy gydol bywydyn llai tebygol o ddioddef afiechyd difrifol.Gellir meithrin arferion da mewn ysgolion,nid yn unig bwysigrwydd deiet cytbwys, ondsut i gael deiet cytbwys, yn nhermau ble ibrynu bwyd a sut i baratoi’r bwyd hwnnw.Mae sut i baratoi llysiau arbennig ynddirgelwch i bobl weithiau. Rhaid innigydnabod hynny. Mae’n brofiad bygythiol ibobl fynd i’r siop ffrwythau neu’rarchfarchnad, os gallant gyrraedd yno—syddyn broblem arall—a gweld y llysiau, ond hebsylweddoli sut i’w paratoi a pha mor flasus ymaent.

Physical exercise is another important area.Acquiring good habits when you are youngthat are sustained through adulthood are agreat way to improve your health and sustainyour wellbeing. Only a quarter of adults takethe recommended level of exercise. That is aserious problem and one that we must tackle.One of the best places to start is in schoolsand colleges.

Mae ymarfer corff yn faes pwysig arall. Maemeithrin arferion da pan yn ifanc a’u cynnaldrwy fywyd oedolyn yn ffordd wych o wellaeich iechyd a chynnal eich lles. Dim ondchwarter oedolion sydd yn cymryd y lefel oymarfer corff a argymhellir. Mae hynny ynbroblem ddifrifol ac yn un y mae’n rhaid innifynd i’r afael â hi. Un o’r mannau gorau iddechrau yw mewn ysgolion a cholegau.

There is also the importance of sexual healthawareness. We must have a policy that iseffective and deals with the issues that youngpeople face. If we do not discuss them, thenthey can be swamped by ignorance andinappropriate peer group pressure. We mustacknowledge the shame that Wales has oneof the highest rates of teenage pregnancy inwestern Europe. That is bad for mothers andfor the children that they have at aninappropriately young age. We must dosomething about the rates of teenagepregnancy.

Hefyd mae pwysigrwydd ymwybyddiaeth oiechyd rhywiol. Rhaid inni gael polisi syddyn effeithiol ac sydd yn ymdrin â’r materiony mae pobl ifanc yn eu hwynebu. Os nathrafodwn hwy, yna gallant gael eu boddimewn anwybodaeth a phwysedd amhriodolcymheiriaid. Rhaid inni gydnabod ycywilydd bod gan Gymru un o’r cyfraddauuchaf yng ngorllewin Ewrop o feichiogrwyddymhlith merched yn eu harddegau. Maehynny yn wael i famau ac i’r plant a gânt panfyddant yn amhriodol o ifanc. Rhaid inniwneud rhywbeth am gyfraddaubeichiogrwydd merched yn eu harddegau.

I turn to mental health. The document refersin depth to mental health issues severaltimes. In the past, this has been overlooked,and I welcome this aspect of the strategy. Wecannot lose sight of the importance of mentalhealth in people’s health and wellbeing. It isa growing problem, according to the WorldHealth Organisation. Indeed, the WHOconsiders that by 2020, the biggest public

Trof at iechyd meddwl. Cyfeiria’r ddogfenyn fanwl at faterion yn ymwneud â iechydmeddwl sawl gwaith. Yn y gorffennol,anwybyddwyd hyn, a chroesawaf yr agweddhon ar y strategaeth. Ni allwn golli golwg arbwysigrwydd iechyd meddwl ar iechyd a llespobl. Mae’n broblem gynyddol, yn ôlSefydliad Iechyd y Byd. Yn wir, ystyria’rsefydliad hwnnw mai’r broblem fwyaf o ran

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health problem facing western societies willbe mental health. The problem is alreadyappearing in our own population. In 1998,one in seven adults reported treatment for amental health problem, which was asignificant increase from the levels in theearly 1990s. The WHO also recognises thatthe young are increasingly at risk. We have adeveloping child and adolescent mentalhealth strategy, which is to be welcomed. Itis an area that needs particular expertise inencouraging young people to access services.There are already barriers for people withmental health problems, but there are evenmore if you are young.

iechyd y cyhoedd a fydd yn wynebucymdeithasau gorllewinol erbyn 2020 fyddiechyd meddwl. Mae’r broblem ynymddangos eisoes yn ein poblogaeth einhunain. Yn 1998, nododd un oedolyn o bobsaith iddynt gael eu trin am broblem iechydmeddwl, a oedd yn gynnydd sylweddol o’rlefelau ar ddechrau’r 1990au. Mae SefydliadIechyd y Byd hefyd yn cydnabod bod yr ifancmewn perygl cynyddol. Mae gennymstrategaeth iechyd meddwl yn datblygu iblant a phobl ifanc yn eu harddegau, sydd i’wgroesawu. Mae’n faes lle mae angenarbenigedd penodol wrth annog pobl ifanc ifanteisio ar wasanaethau. Mae rhwystraueisoes i bobl â phroblemau iechyd meddwl,ond mae hyd yn oed mwy os ydych yn ifanc.

We must remember the difficulties thatpeople with mental health problems face insustaining their recovery. Let us send out apositive message that, when people seektreatment for mental health difficulties, theprognosis is excellent and the treatments andtherapies are becoming more effective.However, people can encounter realproblems when they try to re-enter theworkforce or if they try to retain a job when amental health problem first manifests itself.We must take up this issue with employersand also consider our own procedures. Howdo we relate to people who have had mentalhealth difficulties? How do we support themwhen they return to a job that they left due tosickness, or if they come into a job with theGovernment or the private sector?

Rhaid inni gofio’r anawsterau y mae pobl âphroblemau iechyd meddwl yn eu hwynebuyn y broses o’u gwella. Gadewch inni anfonneges gadarnhaol bod y rhagolygon, pan fopobl yn ceisio triniaeth ar gyfer anawsterauiechyd meddwl, yn wych a bod y triniaethaua’r therapïau yn dod yn fwy effeithiol. Foddbynnag, gall pobl ddod wyneb yn wyneb âphroblemau gwirioneddol pan geisiantailymuno â’r gweithlu neu os ceisiant gadwswydd pan ddaw problem iechyd meddwl i’rwyneb gyntaf. Rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â’rmater hwn gyda chyflogwyr a hefyd ystyriedein gweithdrefnau ein hunain. Sut yr ydymyn ymwneud â phobl sydd wedi caelanawsterau iechyd meddwl? Sut yr ydym yneu cefnogi pan ddychwelant i swydd aadawsant oherwydd salwch, neu osdechreuant swydd gyda’r Llywodraeth neu’rsector preifat?

The drugs with few side effects are one ofthe most promising things for people withmental health difficulties. The serious sideeffects that used to effect people on differentdrug regimes can now be overcome.However, people must have access to thesenew treatments. They are usually moreexpensive, but it is an important element ofequity in the health service that people withmental health problems are given access tothe best drugs available with the fewest sideeffects. The number of people who havestopped taking drugs for a particular mentalhealth problem is far too high. One of the

Y cyffuriau heb lawer o sgîl-effeithiau yw uno’r pethau mwyaf addawol i bobl aganawsterau iechyd meddwl. Erbyn hyn gellirgoresgyn y sgîl-effeithiau difrifol a arferaieffeithio ar bobl ar wahanol drefnaucyffuriau. Fodd bynnag, rhaid i bobl gaelmanteisio ar y triniaethau newydd hyn. Felarfer maent yn ddrutach, ond mae’n elfenbwysig o degwch yn y gwasanaeth iechydbod pobl â phroblemau iechyd meddwl yncael manteisio ar y cyffuriau gorau sydd argael gyda’r sgîl-effeithiau lleiaf posibl. Maenifer y bobl a roddodd y gorau i gymrydcyffuriau at broblem iechyd meddwl benodol

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reasons for poor compliance is the sideeffects.

yn llawer rhy uchel. Un o’r rhesymau am ydiffyg cydymffurfio yw’r sgîl-effeithiau.

The importance of cognitive therapies oughtto be remembered. I have talked to manypeople with mental health difficulties whosay that they accept that drug treatment isimportant, but that it would encourage themif they could talk to people about theirdifficulties: the destructive ideas, thethoughts that they have and the voices thatthey hear. These are important areas that cansometimes be helped by cognitiveapproaches as well as the drug therapies thatare proven effective.

Dylid cofio pwysigrwydd therapïaugwybyddol. Yr wyf wedi siarad â llawer obobl ag anawsterau iechyd meddwl sydd yndweud eu bod yn derbyn bod triniaethcyffuriau yn bwysig, ond y buasai siarad âphobl am eu hanawsterau yn eu calonogi: ysyniadau dinistriol, y meddyliau a gânt a’rlleisiau a glywant. Mae’r rhain yn feysyddpwysig y gellir eu helpu weithiau drwyymagweddau gwybyddol yn ogystal âtherapïau cyffuriau y’u profwyd yn effeithiol.

I commend the work of Health PromotionWales. The work has been internationallyacclaimed and we should remember that. Wenow have a different approach. It is one thatwe as a party did not welcome, but I do notwant to dwell on that. We wish the newstructure well. The organisation has beenabsorbed into the Assembly and we will notprejudge its performance. However, there hasnow been a disaggregation. There is far moreemphasis on local health authoritiesperforming health promotion roles, whereasHealth Promotion Wales was itself a specialhealth authority. This new approach andstructure has, no doubt, much to recommendit and I hope that the advantages of the newsystem will be fully exploited. However, Iask the Minister whether, when we reviewthis strategy in five years time, she willconsider how effective the new arrangementshave been in light of the success of HealthPromotion Wales. You must remember thatwe are discussing a strategy that will last 10years and many of these factors will only bemeasured over that timescale. However, Icommend the motion and the amendments tothe Assembly.

Cymeradwyaf waith Hybu Iechyd Cymru.Canmolwyd y gwaith yn rhyngwladol adylem gofio hynny. Bellach mae gennymymagwedd wahanol. Mae’n ymagwedd nawnaethom fel plaid ei chroesawu, ond nidwyf am oedi gyda hynny. Dymunwn yn ddai’r strwythur newydd. Ymgorfforwyd ysefydliad i mewn i’r Cynulliad ac niragfarnwn ei berfformiad. Fodd bynnag,bellach bu ymwahanu. Mae llawer mwy obwyslais ar awdurdodau iechyd lleol ynperfformio swyddogaethau hybu iechyd, lleyr oedd Hybu Iechyd Cymru yn awdurdodiechyd arbennig ynddo’i hun. Yn ddi-os, maei’r ymagwedd a’r strwythur newydd hynlawer i’w hargymell a gobeithiaf y gwneir ydefnydd mwyaf posibl o fanteision y systemnewydd. Fodd bynnag, gofynnaf i’rGweinidog p’un a wnaiff, pan adolygwn ystrategaeth hon ymhen pum mlynedd,ystyried pa mor effeithiol y bu’r trefniadaunewydd yng ngoleuni llwyddiant HybuIechyd Cymru. Rhaid ichi gofio ein bod yntrafod strategaeth a fydd yn para am 10mlynedd a dim ond dros y raddfa amserhonno y mesurir llawer o’r ffactorau hyn.Fodd bynnag, cymeradwyaf y cynnig a’rgwelliannau i’r Cynulliad.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: I remindthose who propose amendments that theyhave five minutes. I did not stop eitherperson this time because I think that we willhave enough time for everybody to speak.However, the Presiding Officer has allowedan interruption of business for theGovernment to make a statement on the

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Atgoffaf y rheini syddyn cynnig gwelliannau mai pum munud syddganddynt. Nid ateliais unrhyw berson y trohwn oherwydd credaf bod gennym ddigon oamser i bawb siarad. Fodd bynnag,caniataodd y Llywydd ymyriad busnes ermwyn i’r Llywodraeth wneud datganiad arddyfarnu statws treftadaeth y byd i

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award of world heritage status to Blaenavon. Flaenafon.

10:35 a.m.

Datganiad ar FlaenafonStatement on Blaenavon

The Minister for Environment (SueEssex): I inform Assembly Members of someexcellent news. We have just heard that at itsworld heritage committee meeting inAustralia, the United Nations Education,Scientific and Cultural Organisation hasawarded world heritage status to theBlaenavon industrial landscape. [Applause.]It is nice to stand here with some good news.In terms of its international importance andthe evidence of human achievement that itprovides, this places Blaenavon in the samecategory as the Pyramids and the Taj Mahal.Until now only 18 UK sites had beenawarded this accolade, including Stonehenge,the Tower of London, and in Wales, thecastles and town walls in Gwynedd.

Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd (SueEssex): Hysbysaf Aelodau’r Cynulliad amnewyddion ardderchog. Yr ydym newyddglywed bod Sefydliad Addysg,Gwyddoniaeth a Diwylliant y CenhedloeddUnedig wedi dyfarnu statws treftadaeth y bydi dirwedd ddiwydiannol Blaenafon, yn eigyfarfod pwyllgor treftadaeth y byd ynAwstralia. [Cymeradwyaeth.] Mae’n brafsefyll yma gyda newyddion da. O ran eibwysigrwydd rhyngwladol a’r dystiolaeth ogyflawniad dynol a ddarperir gan hyn, mae’nrhoi Blaenafon yn yr un categori â’rPyramidiau a’r Taj Mahal. Dim ond 18 safleyn y DU a gafodd y clod yma hyd yma, gangynnwys Côr y Cewri, Tŵr Llundain, ac yngNghymru, gestyll a muriau trefi yngNgwynedd.

With its evocative remains of earlyironworks, railways, waterways, mines,quarries and workers’ houses, the Blaenavonindustrial landscape is one of the best placesin the world to see the course andconsequences of the industrial revolution.Significantly, the industrial landscape coversabout 50 square kilometres. Focal pointsinclude the preserved remains of theBlaenavon ironworks in the care of Cadw,Big Pit Mining Museum and the town ofBlaenavon itself. The area is also ofinternational importance for its extraordinarylandscape of former mineral workingsextending over the hills around the town. Thelandscape tells the history and the story ofthis remarkable place. We can only glimpsethe extent of the hard work and toil of thepast workers in the Blaenavon area and wecan respect the contribution these peoplemade to the economic development we alltake for granted.

Gyda’i olion atgofus o weithfeydd haearn,rheilffyrdd, dyfrffyrdd, pyllau, chwareli athai gweithwyr cynnar, mae tirweddddiwydiannol Blaenafon yn un o’r lleoeddgorau yn y byd i weld hynt a chanlyniadau’rchwyldro diwydiannol. Yn arwyddocaol,mae’r tirwedd ddiwydiannol yn cwmpasu tua50 o gilomedrau sgwâr. Ymhlith y priffannau mae olion gwaith haearn Blaenafon agadwyd ac sydd yng ngofal Cadw,Amgueddfa Lofaol y Pwll Mawr a threfBlaenafon ei hun. Mae’r ardal hefyd ynbwysig yn rhyngwladol oherwydd eithirwedd anhygoel o hen weithiau mwynausydd yn estyn dros y bryniau o gwmpas ydref. Mae’r dirwedd yn adrodd hanes astori’r lle anhygoel hwn. Dim ond caelcipolwg ar waith a llafur caled cyn-weithwyrardal Blaenafon y gallwn ei wneud a gallwnbarchu’r cyfraniad a wnaeth y bobl hyn i’rdatblygiad economaidd y cymera pob unohonom yn ganiataol.

Getting world heritage status has been a longhaul. Blaenavon was first recommended in1994, but we had to wait for a new list—called a tentative list—of candidates to be

Bu’n dasg anodd cael statws treftadaeth ybyd. Argymhellwyd Blaenafon yn gyntaf yn1994, ond bu’n rhaid inni aros i restrnewydd—sef rhestr betrus—o ymgeiswyr

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compiled, which takes place only every 10years. When this happened in 1999Blaenavon won its place on its recognisedmerits and was the first UK site from the newlist to go forward for nomination. Theoutcome is a testimony to the hard work anddedication of many people, but in particular Icompliment Torfaen County BoroughCouncil and congratulate it on thisachievement, which has included theproduction of a conservation managementplan which I understand UNESCO has said isa shining example of its kind.

gael ei llunio, sydd ond yn digwydd bob dengmlynedd. Pan ddigwyddodd hyn yn 1999,enillodd Blaenafon ei le yn sgîl ei rinweddaua chydnabuwyd y safle fel y cyntaf yn y DUo’r rhestr newydd i fynd ymlaen i gael eienwebu. Mae’r canlyniad yn dystiolaeth iwaith caled ac ymroddiad llawer o bobl, ondcanmolaf Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Tor-faenyn benodol ac fe’i llongyfarchaf am ycyflawniad hwn, sydd wedi cynnwys lluniocynllun rheoli cadwraeth y deallaf ydywedodd UNESCO ei fod yn enghraifftwych o’i fath.

I am delighted to make this announcement, asI have for many years wanted to see ourindustrial contribution uniquely recognisedin the world context. It has takenconsiderable imagination, creativity anddetermination to achieve this heritage status.It is a huge tribute to those individuals andorganisations that have worked hard for thisday.

Yr wyf wrth fy modd yn gwneud ycyhoeddiad hwn, gan fy mod ers llawer oflynyddoedd wedi bod yn awyddus bod eincyfraniad diwydiannol yn cael ei gydnabodfel un unigryw yng nghyd-destun byd-eang.Cymerodd lawer o ddychymyg, gallucreadigol a phenderfyniad i gyflawni’r statwstreftadaeth hwn. Mae’n deyrnged enfawr i’runigolion a’r sefydliadau hynny sydd wedigweithio’n galed ar gyfer y diwrnod hwn.

The news is a welcome recognition ofWales’s outstanding contribution to theindustrial revolution and the endeavour ofthe many generations that have lived andworked around Blaenavon. This excellentlandscape will now be recognised andinterpreted for future generations tounderstand and enjoy. It is good news forBlaenavon and for Wales.

Mae’r newyddion yn gydnabyddiaethganologol o gyfraniad eithriadol Cymru i’rchwyldro diwydiannol ac ymdrech ycenedlaethau niferus sydd wedi byw agweithio o gwmpas Blaenafon. Caiff ydirwedd ardderchog hon ei chydnabod a’idehongli yn awr fel y gall cenedlaethau yn ydyfodol ei deall a’i mwynhau. Mae’nnewyddion da i Flaenafon ac i Gymru.

Phil Williams: Thank you, Sue, forwonderful news. I join you in thanking themany people who have worked for a longtime to achieve this. When I visit a newcountry I always get the UNESCO list. I hopethat many visitors to the UK will do the sameand visit Blaenavon and the Cordell country.I remember my first visit on family businessnearly 40 years ago. It was a journey back intime to a special part of our history and thehistory of the world. You will not besurprised that when I lived in Sweden, Inever missed the opportunity to remindeveryone that the Thomas process,responsible for the industrialisation ofSweden and Germany, came from Blaenavonand that Gilchrist Thomas was Welsh. Overthe past year, if anyone has dared in my

Phil Williams: Diolch i chi, Sue, amnewyddion ardderchog. Ymunaf â chi iddiolch i’r nifer fawr o bobl a weithiodd ersamser hir i gyflawni hyn. Pan ymwelaf âgwlad newydd, caf restr UNESCO bob tro.Gobeithiaf y bydd llawer o ymwelwyr i’r DUyn gwneud yr un peth ac yn ymweld âBlaenafon a gwlad Cordell. Cofiaf fyymweliad cyntaf yn ymwneud â busnesteuluol bron i 40 mlynedd yn ôl. Bu’n daithyn ôl mewn amser i ran arbennig o’n hanesac o hanes y byd. Pan fûm yn byw ynSweden, ni synnwch na chollais erioed ycyfle i atgoffa pawb bod proses Thomas,oedd yn gyfrifol am ddiwydianeiddioSweden a’r Almaen, wedi dod o Flaenafon acmai Cymro oedd Gilchrist Thomas. Dros yflwyddyn ddiwethaf, os meiddiodd unrhyw

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presence to question whether Blaenavoncould be compared with the Taj Mahal, theyhave received a straight answer—Blaenavonwas far more important. Would you agreethat the new status of Blaenavon gives us awonderful opportunity to develop the hugepotential for tourism across the heads of theValleys, all the way from Blaenavon toNeath? We have a combination of superblandscape, a wide range of recreationalopportunities, this unique industrial heritageand a social heritage of which we can beproud.

un ger fy mron gwestiynu a ellid cymharuBlaenafon â’r Taj Mahal, cawsant atebunion—bu Blaenafon yn llawer pwysicach.A gytunwch y rhydd statws newyddBlaenafon gyfle gwych inni ddatblygu’rpotensial enfawr ar gyfer twristiaeth ar drawsblaenau’r Cymoedd, yr holl ffordd oFlaenafon i Gastell-nedd? Mae cyfuniadgennym o dirwedd gwych, amrywiaeth eango gyfleoedd hamdden, y dreftadaethddiwydiannol unigryw hon a threftadaethgymdeithasol y gallwn ymfalchïo ynddi.

Let us not forget that this area did not onlymake a pioneering contribution to the growthof industry but also to the development ofsocialist ideas, the trade union movement andthe welfare state; the birthplace of the NHSis only a few miles away. Would you agreethat the Assembly should ensure that anynecessary environmental work, transportprovision—including much better publictransport—and any necessary planningguidelines should have the highest priority?Would you also agree that the Assemblyshould ensure that economic support shouldbe given for all the other features of asuccessful tourist industry—hotels,restaurants, night-clubs—so that the wholeregion will benefit from this wonderful newsand get a just reward for its contribution toWales and the world?

Peidiwn ag anghofio nad dim ond tuag at dwfdiwydiant y cyfrannodd yr ardal hon ondhefyd at ddatblygu syniadau sosialaidd,mudiad yr undebau llafur a’r wladwriaethles; dim ond ychydig o filltiroedd i ffwrdd ymae man geni’r NHS. A gytunwch y dylai’rCynulliad sicrhau y rhoddir y flaenoriaethuchaf i unrhyw waith amgylcheddol,darpariaeth trafnidiaeth—gan gynnwyscludiant cyhoeddus llawer gwell—a unrhywganllawiau cynllunio sydd eu hangen? Agytunech hefyd y dylai’r Cynulliad sicrhau yrhoddir cymorth economaidd ar gyfer pobnodwedd arall o ddiwydiant twristaiddllwyddiannus—gwestai, bwytai, clybiaunos—fel y bydd yr ardal gyfan yn elwa ar ynewyddion ardderchog hyn ac yn cael gwobrhaeddiannol am ei chyfraniad tuag at Gymrua’r byd?

Sue Essex: Phil raised three critical points. Iam glad to see his enthusiasm. He feels like Ido. It is so exciting. First, his point about thisbeing a huge area of opportunity, botheconomically and geographically, taking inMerthyr and other areas; the Cyfarthfaironworks are being looked at now. This isnot only about Blaenavon. There is a bigstory to tell in south Wales. I agree with that.

Sue Essex: Cododd Phil dri phwynthanfodol. Yr wyf yn falch o weld eifrwdfrydedd. Teimla fel minnau. Mae morgyffrous. Yn gyntaf, ei bwynt fod hyn ymfaes cyfle enfawr, yn economaidd ac ynddaearyddol, gan gynnwys Merthyr acardaloedd eraill; caiff gwaith haearnCyfarthfa ei ystyried ar hyn o bryd. Nid ynymwneud â Blaenafon yn unig y mae hyn.Mae stori fawr i’w hadrodd yn ne Cymru.Cytunaf â hynny.

Secondly, being a socialist and proud of it, Iwould be happy to support the view thatthere is also an underlying story to tell. Asyou say, when someone asks whether this isas important as the Taj Mahal, I say that it is,because the recognition is of a people as wellas artefacts. That is the important message. It

Yn ail, gan fy mod yn sosialydd ac yn falch ohynny, byddwn yn fodlon cefnogi’r farn bodstori gudd i’w hadrodd hefyd. Fel ydywedwch, pan ofynna rhywun a yw hyn morbwysig â’r Taj Mahal, dywedaf ei fod, gan eifod yn cydnabod pobl yn ogystal â phethau.Dyna’r neges bwysig. Dywed am berthynas

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tells the relationship of a people to thatlandscape and to the opportunity. UNESCOhas recognised that and the importance ofindustrial heritage.

pobl â’r dirwedd honno ac â’r cyfle. CydnabuUNESCO hynny a phwysigrwydd treftadaethddiwydiannol.

Thirdly, the economic opportunities totranslate this into wellbeing for the peoplewho need jobs now and in the future. That isthe next stage. Having talked to the peoplewho have been involved in getting this so far,I know that they are full of ideas of how thatmay be progressed and translated intoeconomic regeneration of the area. AllMembers would want to search out theopportunities in the many ways that wecan—together with the partners, because thishas been a huge partnership operation—anddo our best to complement those and put inplace the mechanisms to make it work.

Yn drydydd, y cyfleoedd economaidd i drosihyn i fod er lles y bobl sydd angen swyddi ynawr ac yn y dyfodol. Dyna’r cam nesaf. Ganfy mod wedi siarad â’r bobl a gymerodd ran igyrraedd mor bell â hyn, gwn eu bod ynllawn syniadau am sut y gellir symud hynnyymlaen a’i drosi i adfywio’r ardal yneconomaidd. Byddai pob Aelod yn awyddus ichwilio am y cyfleoedd yn y nifer o ffyrdd aallwn—ar y cyd â’r partneriaid, gan i hwnfod yn waith partneriaeth enfawr—a gwneudein gorau i ategu’r rheini ac i sefydlu’rdulliau i wneud i hynny weithio.

Lynne Neagle: I am grateful to Sue formaking this statement and recognising animportant day for Blaenavon, for myconstituency and for Wales as a whole. I takethis opportunity to record my thanks to allthe Members who signed my statement ofopinion supporting the world heritage sitebid. Every Member who was not in theCabinet or a party leader signed it and I amgrateful for that support. I ask Members tocontinue this support for the world heritagesite by coming to Blaenavon, visiting the site,and spreading the good news about what isthere, in your constituencies.

Lynne Neagle: Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Sueam wneud y datganiad hwn ac am gydnaboddiwrnod pwysig i Flaenafon, i’m hetholaethac i Gymru gyfan. Cymeraf y cyfle hwn igofnodi fy niolch i’r holl Aelodau alofnododd fy natganiad barn yn cefnogi’rcynnig i fod yn safle treftadaeth y byd. Fe’illofnodwyd gan bob Aelod nad oedd yn yCabinet neu’n arweinydd plaid ac yr wyf ynddiolchgar am y gefnogaeth honno. Gofynnafi’r Aelodau barhau â’u cefnogaeth i’r safledrwy ddod i Flaenafon, drwy ymweld â’rsafle, a thrwy ledaenu’r newyddion da am yrhyn sydd yno, yn eich etholaethau.

It is important that, as an Assembly, we takeforward our support for the world heritagesite in an energetic way. What furthermeasures can be taken, in particular inrelation to Big Pit Mining Museum? Thereare outstanding funding issues, includingsome £1.2 million capital funding that isneeded to draw down the £5 million grantfrom the lottery. I am grateful for the remarksthat you made about the partnership and inparticular about Torfaen County BoroughCouncil, which has shown enormousimagination in taking this bid forward.Blaenavon and other valley towns were builton the sweat and struggle of working people.Would you agree that above all else thisannouncement is a tribute to those people?Would you agree that it is the tribute to their

Mae’n bwysig inni fel Cynulliad ddatblyguein cefnogaeth i’r safle treftadaeth y bydmewn ffordd egnïol. Pa fesurau pellach ygellir eu cymryd, yn enwedig mewnperthynas ag Amgueddfa Lofaol y PwllMawr? Mae materion ariannu sydd heb eupenderfynu, gan gynnwys £1.2 miliwn oarian cyfalaf sydd ei angen er mwyn cael ygrant o £5 miliwn gan y loteri. Yr wyf ynddiolchgar am y sylwadau a wnaethoch am ybartneriaeth ac am Gyngor Bwrdeistref SirolTor-faen yn benodol, a ddangosodd laweriawn o ddychymyg wrth ddatblygu’r cynnighwn. Adeiladwyd Blaenafon a threfi eraill yny cymoedd ar chwys a brwydr y gweithwyr.A gytunech fod y cyhoeddiad hwn yndeyrnged i’r bobl hynny yn anad dim? Agytunech ei fod yn deyrnged i’w harwriaeth a

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heroism that will secure a much brighterfuture for Blaenavon and the surroundingvalleys towns?

fydd yn sicrhau dyfodol llawer disgleiriach iFlaenafon a’r trefi cyfagos yn y cymoedd?

Sue Essex: Thank you for those eruditewords at the end. It is true. Lynne and I werethere when the good news came through bymodern technology, which would have beenunthought of when the hard work was goinginto Blaenavon. It made you think seriouslyabout what it must have been like to work inthat area—the hardship and the toil oftranslating that place into a living for people.It makes us all feel quite sombre to think thatat that stage such hard work went intotransforming that part of south Wales and itscontribution to the world. I hope that thispays some respect to that dedication and toilso many years ago.

Sue Essex: Diolch am y geiriau dysgedighynny ar y diwedd. Mae’n wir. Yr oeddLynne a minnau yno pan ddaeth y newyddionda drwy gyfrwng technoleg fodern, na fyddaipobl wedi clywed amdano pan oedd y gwaithcaled yn mynd yn ei flaen i greu Blaenafon.Gwnaeth ichi feddwl o ddifrif sut deimladydoedd i weithio yn yr ardal honno—y caledia’r llafur o drosi’r lle hwnnw i fod ynfywoliaeth i bobl. Gwna i bob un ohonomdeimlo’n eithaf digalon wrth feddwl bodcymaint o waith caled wedi ei gyflawni ynystod y cyfnod hwnnw er mwyn trawsnewidy rhan honno o dde Cymru a’i chyfraniad i’rbyd. Gobeithio bod hyn yn talu rhywfaint odeyrnged i’r ymroddiad a’r llafur hwnnwgymaint o flynyddoedd yn ôl.

10:45 a.m.

Cadw has put substantial sums of money intothe ironworks and continues to do so. That isa core feature, which will be part ofattracting people to look at this uniquelandscape. You are right, Lynne, we need tofollow this up in all sorts of ways. Now thatthe uncertainty of will it or will it not begranted this status has been removed, nowthat we know that it has, we can see howmuch that has been a catalyst to other sites inthe world. I have seen sites that are not aswell known as the Taj Mahal and thePyramids, that have nevertheless managed toturn this recognition into an economicopportunity, which is what we must to do.We need to consider all our budgets and ourpartners’ budgets to ensure that thoseelements are in place to fulfil this dream ofregenerating the area.

Rhoddodd Cadw symiau sylweddol o ariani’r gweithfeydd haearn a pharha i wneudhynny. Mae hynny yn nodwedd graidd, afydd yn rhan o ddenu pobl i edrych ar ydirwedd unigryw hon. Yr ydych yn gywir,Lynne, mae angen inni ddatblygu hyn mewnllawer o ffyrdd. Gan fod yr ansicrwyddynglŷn ag a ddyfernir y statws hwnnw aipeidio wedi’i ddiddymu, a chan ein bod yngwybod yn awr ei fod wedi cael y statws,gallwn weld i ba raddau y bu hynny’ngatalydd i safleoedd eraill yn y byd. Gwelaissafleoedd nad ydynt mor enwog â’r TajMahal a’r Pyramidiau, ond a lwyddodd,serch hynny, i droi’r gydnabyddiaeth hon yngyfle economaidd, sef yr hyn y mae’n rhaid ini ei wneud. Rhaid inni ystyried pob un o’ncyllidebau a chyllidebau ein partneriaid ermwyn sicrhau bod yr elfennau hynny yn eulle er mwyn cyflawni’r freuddwyd hon oadfywio’r ardal.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Diolch am y cyfle iymateb fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Diwylliant.Mae’r Pwyllgor yn croesawu’r newyddionhyn ac yn llongyfarch Cyngor BwrdeistrefSirol Tor-faen a’r holl bartneriaid a fu’n rhano’r broses o sicrhau’r gydnabyddiaeth hon.Ategaf yr hyn a ddywedwyd, sef ein bod yn

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Thank you for theopportunity to respond as Chair of theCulture Committee. The Committeewelcomes this news and congratulatesTorfaen County Borough Council and all thepartners that have been part of the process ofsecuring this recognition. I reiterate what has

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gobeithio y bydd y weinyddiaeth yn sicrhaupob cefnogaeth i’r bartneriaeth i symudymlaen i sicrhau budd economaidd achymdeithasol o’r gydnabyddiaeth hon iardal Blaenafon.

been said, namely that we hope that theadministration will ensure every support forthe partnership to move forward to ensureeconomic and social benefit from thisrecognition for the Blaenavon area.

Ar bwynt ehangach, a fydd y Gweinidog ynawr yn sicrhau pob cefnogaeth ar gyferardaloedd eraill a all gynrychioli agweddaugwahanol, ond yr un mor bwysig, ardraddodiad, treftadaeth a hanes Cymru syddyn haeddu cydnabyddiaeth ryngwladol fel einbod yn gweithio gyda’n gilydd i sicrhau boddelwedd Cymru ar y llwyfan byd-eang yngadarnhaol ac adeiladol?

On a broader point, will the Minister nowensure every support for other areas that mayrepresent different, but equally important,aspects of Wales’s traditions, heritage andhistory, and deserve international recognitionso that we work together to ensure thatWales’s image on the world-wide stage ispositive and constructive?

Sue Essex: I believe that this can nowhappen. I am not saying that there will beadditional world heritage sites elsewhere inWales. However, it recognises thatuniqueness—something that perhaps 10 or20 years ago was difficult for people torecognise. You can understand why it wasdifficult when you are close to somethingthat has taken a lot of blood, sweat and tears.Perhaps the leap to seeing this as a culturalelement is quite hard to take for a while, butdistance of time enables it to happen. Wenow have a good opportunity, seeing that thisis recognised, to see what else we have inWales. There are many areas. There is a lotof heritage in the Merthyr area, and the localgroup there has done a tremendous job ofpreserving buildings and history.

Sue Essex: Credaf y gall hyn ddigwydd ynawr. Ni ddywedaf y bydd safleoeddtreftadaeth y byd ychwanegol mewn lleoedderaill yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, mae’ncydnabod yr unigrywiaeth honno—rhywbetha fu’n anodd i bobl ei chydnabod 10 neu 20mlynedd yn ôl efallai. Gallwch ddeall pam ybu’n anodd pan fyddwch yn agos at rywbetha gymerodd lawer o waed, chwys a dagrau.Efallai fod y naid i weld hyn yn elfenddiwylliannol yn eithaf anodd i’w derbyn amdipyn, ond mae pellter amser yn galluogihynny i ddigwydd. Mae cyfle da gennym ynawr, gan fod hyn wedi’i gydnabod, i weldbeth arall sydd gennym yng Nghymru. Maellawer o ardaloedd. Mae llawer o dreftadaethyn ardal Merthyr, ac mae’r grŵp lleol ynowedi gwneud gwaith gwych wrth ddiogeluadeiladau a hanes.

On the tourism potential, it is essential thatwe put this together as a package anddevelop it so that visitors not only appreciatethe excellent and wonderful beauty ofWales’s landscape and coast, but see theother aspect that is there to be interpreted andenjoyed with that boost that it needs. Thatwill be a harmony between what we can dothrough Cadw and other organisations andalso, importantly, the local community. Thelocal communities in Wales need to feel thatthis is for them too, that it is part of theirheritage and that they have a contribution tomake.

Ynglŷn â photensial twristiaeth, mae’nhanfodol ein bod yn rhoi hyn at ei gilydd felpecyn ac yn ei ddatblygu fel bod ymwelwyrnid yn unig yn gwerthfawrogi prydferthwchardderchog a rhagorol tirwedd ac arfordirCymru, ond eu bod yn gweld yr agwedd arallsydd yno i’w dehongli a’i mwynhau gyda’rhwb hwnnw sydd ei angen arni. Cytgord fyddhwnnw rhwng yr hyn y gallwn ei wneuddrwy Cadw a sefydliadau eraill, ac hefyddrwy’r gymuned leol, sydd yn bwysig. Maeangen i gymunedau lleol Cymru deimlo ygallant gymryd rhan yn hyn hefyd, bod hynyn rhan o’u treftadaeth a bod ganddyntgyfraniad i’w wneud.

Peter Law: I am grateful to have the Peter Law: Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar o gael y

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opportunity to say something briefly on thisspecial day. There is such magic in the air inBlaenavon today because of this wonderfulannouncement. I know Blaenavon well,living only two or three miles from there, andI visit it every week. It is next door to myconstituency. I am not surprised at thefavourable comparison with the Pyramids, asanybody who has walked up the main streetin Blaenavon will have made thatcomparison on many occasions. [Laughter.]It is a town of rich warmth and welcome.That community has worked hard over manyyears with Big Pit Mining Museum and withthe steam railway that they proudly havethere.

cyfle i ddweud rhywbeth byr ar y diwrnodarbennig hwn. Mae cymaint o hud yn awyrBlaenafon heddiw oherwydd y cyhoeddiadrhagorol hwn. Yr wyf yn adnabod Blaenafonyn dda, gan fy mod ond yn byw ddwy neudair milltir oddi yno, ac ymwelaf â’r dref bobwythnos. Mae’n cyffinio â’m hetholaeth. Nisynnaf at y gymhariaeth ffafriol â’rPyramidiau, gan y bydd unrhyw un agerddodd i fyny’r stryd fawr ym Mlaenafonwedi gwneud y gymhariaeth honno lawergwaith. [Chwerthin.] Mae’n dref owresogrwydd a chroeso mawr. Gweithiodd ygymuned honno’n galed dros lawer oflynyddoedd gydag Amgueddfa Lofaol yPwll Mawr a’r rheilffordd ager y maent ynfalch o’i chael yno.

Does the Minister, from whom I wasdelighted to hear this statement, agree thatwe should congratulate Lynne Neagle, theMember for Torfaen, who has worked sohard on that statement of opinion and hasrepresented and projected so well the casefor this wonderful recognition since she hasbeen an Assembly Member? I heard hermention that Cadw will hopefully providefinancial support in the future. Will theMinister for Environment ask the Ministerfor Finance for the financial support that BigPit needs to make up the shortfall in theimportant mining museum, which is one ofthe greatest visitor attractions in Britain andof which we are all proud?

A gytuna’r Gweinidog, yr oedd yn blesergennyf glywed y datganiad hwn ganddi, ydylem longyfarch Lynne Neagle, yr Aeloddros Dor-faen, a weithiodd mor galed ar ydatganiad barn hwnnw ac sydd wedicynrychioli a chyflwyno’r achos dros ygydnabyddiaeth ragorol hon cystal ers iddiddod yn Aelod o’r Cynulliad? Clywais hi’ncrybwyll y gobaith y darpara Cadw gymorthariannol yn y dyfodol. A ofynna’r Gweinidogdros yr Amgylchedd i’r Gweinidog drosGyllid am y cymorth ariannol sydd ei angenar y Pwll Mawr er mwyn cyflenwi’r diffygyn yr amgueddfa lofaol bwysig, sydd yn uno’r atyniadau ymwelwyr gorau ym Mhrydainac yr ydym oll mor falch ohoni?

Sue Essex: The comparison with thePyramids comes to mind when you are there,although the climate is slightly different.This morning, Lynne and I felt the warmth,friendliness and enthusiasm of the localcommunity, which was proud of what it hadachieved. We must pay tribute to the peoplewho live in the locality. I also pay tribute toLynne. It was recognised this morning thatyou have worked hard and, in a short timeyou have won the people’s hearts. Theyknow that you have been dedicated insupporting them.

Sue Essex: Daw’r gymhariaeth â’rPyramidiau i’r cof pan fyddwch yno, er bodyr hinsawdd braidd yn wahanol. Y bore yma,teimlodd Lynne a minnau gynhesrwydd,cyfeillgarwch a brwdfrydedd y gymuned leol,a oedd yn falch o’r hyn a gyflawnodd. Rhaidinni dalu teyrnged i’r bobl sydd yn byw yn ygymdogaeth. Talaf deyrnged i Lynne hefyd.Cydnabuwyd y bore yma eich bod wedigweithio’n galed a’ch bod wedi ennillcalonnau’r bobl mewn cyfnod byr. Gwyddanty buoch yn ymroddedig o ran eu cefnogi.

In terms of the financial commitment, theMinister for Finance is not here but I will askher about financial support. If she did notknow that there is a sum attached to good

O ran yr ymrwymiad ariannol, nid yw’rGweinidog dros Gyllid yn bresennol ondgofynnaf iddi am gymorth ariannol. Os nawyddai bod arian ynghlwm wrth newyddion

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news, she will know it soon after thismeeting.

da, bydd yn gwybod hynny’n fuan ar ôl ycyfarfod hwn.

I would like to single out Dennis Puddle, inparticular, who has been dedicated toachieving this recognition for many years. Ittakes a lot of dedication and commitment tosee things through. He had a specialinvolvement in Big Pit. He told us that whenBig Pit was in operation, seeing it as aUNESCO site was the ultimate goal forpulling the package together. We must ensurethat money is available for all elements of theindustrial landscape package.

Hoffwn enwi Dennis Puddle, yn benodol, afu’n ymroddedig i sicrhau’r gydnabyddiaethhon ers nifer o flynyddoedd. Cymer lawer oymroddiad ac ymrwymiad i weld pethau i’wterfyn. Cymerodd ran arbennig yn y PwllMawr. Dywedodd wrthym pan oedd y PwllMawr yn gweithredu, mai ei weld fel un osafleoedd UNESCO oedd y nod wrthddatblygu’r pecyn. Rhaid inni sicrhau bodarian ar gael ar gyfer pob elfen o’r pecyntirwedd ddiwydiannol.

David Davies: On behalf of the ConservativeParty I welcome this announcement and I paytribute to Lynne Neagle. Getting theindustrial landscape of Blaenavon recognisedon the same level as the Taj Mahal and thePyramids is a vision that many people wouldnot have had or thought to have beenachievable. Not only has Lynne achievedmuch for her area, but she has shown otherbackbench Members what we can achieve ifwe have vision. I have genuine admirationfor her for that. I am more than happy topraise Members of other parties when it iscalled for, just as I did for Jane Davidsonearlier this morning.

David Davies: Croesawaf y cyhoeddiad hwnar ran y Blaid Geidwadol a thalaf deyrnged iLynne Neagle. Mae cael yr ungydnabyddiaeth i dirwedd ddiwydiannolBlaenafon â’r Taj Mahal a’r Pyramidiau ynweledigaeth na fyddai llawer o bobl wedi’ichael neu na fyddai llawer o bobl wedi creduy gellid ei chyflawni. Mae Lynne nid yn unigwedi cyflawni llawer ar gyfer ei hardal, onddangosodd i Aelodau meinciau cefn eraillbeth y gallwn ei gyflawni os oes gennymweledigaeth. Fe’i hedmygaf yn wirioneddolam hynny. Yr wyf yn fwy na bodlon canmolAelodau o bleidiau eraill pan fo’r galw, fel ygwnes i yn gynharach y bore yma ar gyferJane Davidson.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: We wouldnot wish to question that.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Ni ddymunemgwestiynu hynny.

David Davies: There will be benefits fromthis accreditation in terms of jobs andtourism and we look forward to that. We hearthat the spin-off will reach a wider area. Ihope that there will also be a cultural benefitfor us. The hardship that people suffered inthose areas during the industrial revolutionwas mentioned. In a calmer and morereflective moment, some people will realisethat the relationships between those whoworked and managed those areas were morecomplex than at first thought. Perhaps one ofthe cultural benefits will be to look moreclosely at the history of those areas. I lookforward to the cultural and economic spin-offof this and I congratulate Lynne Neagle.

David Davies: Bydd yr achrediad hwn yndwyn budd o ran swyddi a thwristiaeth acedrychwn ymlaen at hynny. Clywn y bydd ycanlyniadau yn cyrraedd ardal ehangach.Gobeithiaf y bydd budd diwylliannol i nihefyd. Crybwyllwyd y caledi a ddioddefoddpobl yn yr ardaloedd hynny yn ystod ychwyldro diwydiannol. Ar adeg dawelach amwy myfyriol, bydd rhai pobl yn sylweddolibod y cydberthynasau rhwng y bobl aweithiodd ac a reolodd yr ardaloedd hynnyyn fwy cymhleth nag y credwyd ar y dechrau.Efallai mai un o’r manteision diwylliannolfydd edrych yn fwy gofalus ar hanes yrardaloedd hynny. Edrychaf ymlaen atganlyniadau diwylliannol ac economaidd hyna llongyfarchaf Lynne Neagle.

Sue Essex: David, I see that your new man Sue Essex: David, gwelaf fod y ddelwedd

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image is coming forward at last. I am glad tohear you talking about being associated withvisions. I appreciate your genuine words andI am sure that Lynne feels the same way. Wecan come together on occasions such as thisto congratulate people and send out warmwords on behalf of the Assembly. Partypolitics does not matter. I spoke warm wordson behalf of the Assembly in Blaenavon thismorning.

ohonoch fel dyn newydd yn ymddangos o’rdiwedd. Yr wyf yn falch o’ch clywed ynsiarad am fod yn gysylltiedig âgweledigaethau. Gwerthfawrogaf eichgeiriau dilys ac yr wyf yn siwr bod Lynne ynteimlo’r un peth. Gallwn ddod ynghyd arachlysuron fel hyn i longyfarch pobl ac ianfon geiriau cynnes ar ran y Cynulliad. Nidoes ots am wleidyddiaeth plaid. Siaradaiseiriau cynnes ar ran y Cynulliad ymMlaenafon y bore yma.

Mick Bates: I am glad to be part of thisstatement and to follow David Davies’swonderful remarks. On behalf of the LiberalDemocrats I congratulate those who havebeen involved in achieving this recognition:in particular, Torfaen County BoroughCouncil and Lynne Neagle. It has been apleasure to listen. It provides inspiration tous all to retain and work on our visions forWales. The importance of this is that itconnects people with their past and theirheritage. I am sure that everyone here looksforward to visiting the site as it develops.The knock-on effect of today’sannouncement will be prosperity.

Mick Bates: Yr wyf yn falch o fod yn rhano’r datganiad hwn ac i ddilyn sylwadaurhagorol David Davies. Ar ran yDemocratiaid Rhyddfrydol, llongyfarchaf yrheini a fu’n ymwneud ag ennill ygydnabyddiaeth hon: yn enwedig, CyngorBwrdeistref Sirol Tor-faen a Lynne Neagle.Bu’n bleser gwrando. Ysbrydola bob unohonom i gadw ac i ddatblygu eingweledigaethau ar gyfer Cymru.Pwysigrwydd hyn yw ei fod yn cysylltu poblâ’u gorffennol a’u treftadaeth. Yr wyf ynsiwr bod pawb yma yn edrych ymlaen atymweld â’r safle wrth iddo ddatblygu.Ffyniant fydd effaith ddilynol y cyhoeddiadhwn heddiw.

10:55 a.m.

I hope that that development will continue. Ishare some of the concerns expressed byspeakers that sufficient investment will beforthcoming to ensure that there is anintegrated transport system that connects thesite. In addition, I share the concerns as towhether there will be sufficient investmentfor the Big Pit to become part of the NationalMuseums and Galleries of Wales. However,while we all share in the euphoria that theinspiration is now there, I look forward to theday when there is a world heritage siterecognising the Welsh agricultural heritagethat we are quickly losing. What action is theMinister for Environment taking to ensurethat there is sufficient funding so that we canbuild on this and have a brighter future fortourism and heritage in Wales?

Gobeithiaf y bydd y datblygiad hwnnw ynparhau. Rhannaf rai o’r pryderon a fynegwydgan siaradwyr na fuddsoddir yn ddigonol ermwyn sicrhau y ceir system drafnidiaethintegredig sydd yn cysylltu’r safle. Ynogystal, rhannaf y pryderon ynghylch afuddsoddir yn ddigonol fel y gall y PwllMawr ddod yn rhan o Amgueddfeydd acOrielau Cenedlaethol Cymru. Fodd bynnag,er y rhanna pob un ohonom yr ewfforia bodyr ysbrydoliaeth yno erbyn hyn, edrychafymlaen i’r diwrnod pan fydd safle treftadaethy byd a fydd yn cydnabod y dreftadaethamaethyddol yng Nghymru yr ydym yn eicholli’n gyflym. Pa gamau a gymera’rGweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd er mwynsicrhau y ceir digon o arian fel y gallwnadeiladau ar hyn a datblygu dyfodoldisgleiriach ar gyfer twristiaeth a threftadaethyng Nghymru?

Sue Essex: We have all made the connection Sue Essex: Mae pob un ohonom wedi deall

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that if we are to capitalise on the designation,it needs a well-thought out plan. In fairness,Torfaen have worked hard and I would notlike to think that the Assembly is coming inlike some shining knight. Torfaen and othershave worked hard for many years and it is atribute to the dedication and imagination ofsome key people in that Valley.

bod angen cynllun wedi’i drefnu yn dda, osdymunwn fanteisio ar y penodiad. I fod yndeg, gweithiodd Tor-faen yn galed ac nihoffwn feddwl y daw’r Cynulliad i mewn felryw fath o farchog ar geffyl gwyn.Gweithiodd Tor-faen ac eraill yn galed amnifer o flynyddoedd ac mae’n deyrnged iymroddiad a dychymyg rhai pobl allweddolyn y Cwm hwnnw.

We need to sit down with Torfaen CountyBorough Council, the community and otherpartners including Monmouthshire CountyCouncil, the County Borough of BlaenauGwent, the Welsh Development Agency andMike German as the Minister for EconomicDevelopment. We must ensure that wecapitalise on the uniqueness of this status andtry to turn this into jobs for people. That isimportant because there are many emptyshops in Blaenavon. We must help them totranslate this recognition into jobs. Thosejobs may be based on heritage and tourism;completely different jobs to the ones thatcreated this landscape. However, they mayallow people to stay in their communities.

Mae angen inni drafod gyda ChyngorBwrdeistref Sirol Tor-faen, y gymuned aphartneriaid eraill gan gynnwys Cyngor SirFynwy, Bwrdeistref Sirol Blaenau Gwent,Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru a Mike Germanfel y Gweinidog dros DdatblyguEconomaidd. Rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod ynmanteisio ar unigrywiaeth y statws hwn ac ynceisio troi hyn yn swyddi i bobl. Maehynny’n bwysig gan fod llawer o siopaugwag ym Mlaenafon. Rhaid inni eu helpu idrosi’r gydnabyddiaeth hon yn swyddi. Gally swyddi hynny fod yn seiliedig ardreftadaeth a thwristiaeth; swyddi hollolwahanol i’r rheini a grëwyd gan y dirweddhon. Fodd bynnag, gallant o bosibl ganiatáupobl i aros yn eu cymunedau.

Helen Mary Jones: As the shadow Minister,I will respond on behalf of Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales. We are delighted withthis news and many of us were pleased tosign Lynne’s statement a while ago. That wasonly the tail-end of a long campaign by manypeople. I echo what has been said aboutcongratulating everybody who made what isa major achievement, not only for Blaenavonand Torfaen, but for Wales. I know that theMinister shares my pleasure in seeing thehistory of the working people of Walesacknowledged on an international stage.

Helen Mary Jones: Fel Gweinidog yrwrthblaid, ymatebaf ar ran Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales. Yr ydym wrth ein boddgyda’r newyddion hwn a bu llawer ohonomyn falch iawn i lofnodi datganiad Lynneychydig o amser yn ôl. Dim ond y rhan olaf oymgyrch hir gan lawer o bobl oedd hynny.Adleisiaf yr hyn a ddywedwyd amlongyfarch pawb a gymerodd ran yn yr hynsydd yn gyflawniad mawr, nid yn unig iFlaenafon a Thor-faen, ond i Gymru hefyd.Gwn fod y Gweinidog yn rhannu fy mhlesero weld hanes gweithwyr Cymru yn cael eigydnabod ar lwyfan rhyngwladol.

I declare an interest as an historian. I cannothelp saying to David Davies in that context,that the early trade unionists and the chartistsof Blaenavon had a clear view about theirrelationship with their employers. I do notthink that they perceived much complexity,with perhaps a few notable exceptions.

Datganaf fuddiant fel hanesydd. Ni allafbeidio â dweud wrth David Davies yn y cyd-destun hwn, bod gan undebwyr llafur cynnara siartwyr Blaenafon farn glir am euperthynas â’u cyflogwyr. Ni chredaf ycanfuont lawer o gymhlethdod, ar wahân i raieithriadau nodedig efallai.

As the Minister rightly said, this is a day tocelebrate and this recognition is above party

Fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog yn gywir, maehwn yn ddiwrnod i ddathlu ac mae’r

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politics. However, I echo what has been saidabout the need to ensure sufficientinvestment. Wonderful opportunities oftencome our way as a nation and we are notready and not there to grasp them. I knowthat will not be the case this time. Therefore,Sue, will you as a matter of urgency, meetwith your colleagues, the Minister forEconomic Development and the Minister forFinance to ensure that the Executive is readyto respond to the positive plans of TorfaenCounty Borough Council and the localpartnerships. It would be awful if we, as anAssembly, were perceived to be in any wayholding this back. I know that you will doeverything to ensure that that is not the case.Therefore, I congratulate everybody inBlaenavon and we as a country can be proudof them.

gydnabyddiaeth hon uwchlawgwleidyddiaeth plaid. Fodd bynnag, adleisiafyr hyn a ddywedwyd am yr angen i sicrhau yceir digon o fuddsoddiad. Daw cyfleoeddardderchog yn aml inni fel cenedl ac nidydym yn barod ac nid ydym yno i gydioynddynt. Gwn na fydd hyn yn wir y tro hwn.Felly, Sue, a fyddech, fel mater o frys, yncwrdd â’ch cyd-Aelodau, y Gweinidog drosDdatblygu Economaidd a’r Gweinidog drosGyllid i sicrhau bod y Weithrediaeth ynbarod i ymateb i gynlluniau cadarnhaolCyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Tor-faen a’rpartneriaethau lleol. Byddai’n ofnadwy pecanfyddid ein bod ni, fel Cynulliad, yn dalhyn yn ôl mewn unrhyw ffordd. Gwn ygwnewch bopeth i sicrhau na ddigwyddhynny. Felly, llongyfarchaf bawb ymMlaenafon a gallwn ninnau fel gwladymfalchïo ynddynt.

Sue Essex: I will do that. This cross-cutsmany portfolios and needs that cohesiveness.You mentioned reflecting the history of theworking people. We cannot underestimatethat. Behind the construction of sites such asthe Taj Mahal and Stonehenge lie literallyblood, sweat and tears. What is remarkableabout the Blaenavon landscape and otherindustrial remains in South Wales andelsewhere is that you can start to feel thatelement of people’s contribution. If you havebeen anywhere near blast modern furnaces,you realise the toll that takes on the peoplewho work there. I saw those as a student andI was appalled to think how some people hadto spend their working life. You mustimagine the impact that had for people whoworked there in the past, their health andtheir families.

Sue Essex: Gwnaf hynny. Mae hyn ynymestyn ar draws llawer o bortffolios ac maeangen yr elfen gydlynol honno.Crybwyllasoch adlewyrchu hanes gweithwyr.Ni allwn fychanu hynny. Y tu ôl i waithadeiladu safleoedd megis y Taj Mahal a Chôry Cewri mae gwaed, chwys a dagrau ynllythrennol. Yr hyn sydd yn rhyfeddol amdirwedd Blaenafon ac olion diwydiannoleraill yn Ne Cymru ac mewn lleoedd eraillyw y gallwch ddechrau teimlo’r elfen honnoo gyfraniad pobl. Os buoch yn agos iffwrneisiau chwyth modern, sylweddolwch yniwed a wna i’r bobl sydd yn gweithio yno.Gwelais y rheini pan yn fyfyrwraig achodwyd arswyd arnaf wrth feddwl sut yroedd yn rhaid i rai pobl dreulio eu bywydgwaith. Rhaid ichi ddychmygu’r effaith agafodd hynny ar y bobl a weithiodd yno yn ygorffennol, eu hiechyd a’u teuluoedd.

With a bit of imagination and care,Blaenavon can tell the story of the people aswell as convey the wonder of the engineeringfeats that were achieved there. UNESCOrecognises that this is not only aboutbuildings; it is also about the contribution ofpeople to the huge advance that was made atthat time. If you do not take steps similar tothe ones that have been taken, that part of thehistory gets lost and people do not appreciatethe sacrifices and creativity of the past. That

Gydag ychydig o ddychymyg a gofal, gallBlaenafon adrodd hanes y bobl yn ogystal âchyfleu rhyfeddod y campau peirianyddol agyflawnwyd yno. Mae UNESCO yncydnabod nad ymwneud ag adeiladau yn unigy mae hyn; mae’n ymwneud â chyfraniadpobl at y datblygiad enfawr a wnaethpwyd ary pryd. Os na chymerwch gamau tebyg i’rrheini a gymerwyd, collir y rhan honno o’rhanes ac ni werthfawrogir aberth a gallucreadigol y gorffennol. Dyna elfen gyffrous

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is the exciting element of Blaenavon. Blaenafon.

Tom Middlehurst: I join in today’scelebrations and congratulate Lynne Neagleand the partnership that has achieved thissignificant recognition. In particular, I paytribute to councillors Brian Smith and BobWellington, who have led by example andhave shown great determination andcommitment. They would be the first toacknowledge that it has been a team effort,and I am delighted to recognise that today.

Tom Middlehurst: Ymunaf â’r dathliadauheddiw a llongyfarchaf Lynne Neagle a’rbartneriaeth a gyflawnodd y gydnabyddiaetharwyddocaol hon. Talaf deyrnged, ynenwedig, i’r cynghorwyr Brian Smith a BobWellington, a arweiniodd drwy osod esiamplac a ddangosodd benderfyniad acymrwymiad mawr. Hwy fyddai’r cyntaf igydnabod y bu’n waith tîm, ac yr wyf wrth fymodd o gydnabod hynny heddiw.

Phil Williams referred to Alexander Cordellwho vividly recalled, in his trilogy of novels,the harshness and difficulties of living andworking in those times. I commend to theAssembly the fact that Clwyd Theatr Cymru,as a Welsh national performing artscompany, has staged magnificent productionsof Rape of the Fair Country, Hosts ofRebecca and Song of the Earth. They areworthy of attendance by Assembly Membersand are a good reflection of the work of thatcompany. It is important that we now moveto secure the future of Big Pit within the newsetting that is a consequence of thismorning’s recognition. I am delighted towelcome it and to share in today’scelebrations.

Cyfeiriodd Phil Williams at AlexanderCordell a ddygodd i’r cof yn fyw lymder acanawsterau byw a gweithio yn ystod ycyfnod hwnnw, yn ei gyfres o dair nofel.Tynnaf sylw’r Cynulliad at y ffaith bodCwmni Theatr Clwyd, fel un o gwmnïaucelfyddydau perfformio cenedlaethol Cymru,wedi gosod ar lwyfan gynhyrchiadaurhagorol o Rape of the Fair Country, Hostsof Rebecca a Song of the Earth. Mae’n werthi Aelodau’r Cynulliad fynd i’w gweld acmaent yn adlewyrchu gwaith y cwmnihwnnw yn dda. Mae’n bwysig ein bod ynsymud yn awr i ddiogelu dyfodol y PwllMawr o fewn y sefyllfa newydd sydd ynganlyniad o gydnabyddiaeth y bore yma.Mae’n bleser gennyf ei chroesawu ac o fodyn rhan o’r dathliadau heddiw.

Sue Essex: I look forward to a bus trip ofAssembly Members going to the workingmen’s hall at Blaenavon to see Clwyd TheatrCymru’s productions of Alexander Cordell’swork.

Sue Essex: Edrychaf ymlaen at Aelodau’rCynulliad yn mynd ar fws i neuadd ygweithwyr ym Mlaenafon i weldcynhyrchiadau Cwmni Theatr Clwyd o waithAlexander Cordell.

Rosemary Butler: As there is no train. Rosemary Butler: Gan nad oes trên.

Sue Essex: No, there is no train. We will goin a bus. Some of us are used to travelling inbuses.

Sue Essex: Nag oes, nid oes trên. Awn arfws. Mae rhai ohonom yn gyfarwydd âtheithio ar fws.

William Graham: I join in thecongratulations. I endorse the invitation thathas been broadly welcomed here in respectof an important site. We cannotunderestimate its significance anduniqueness in industrial terms. I am sure thatall Members will now take the opportunity tovisit Blaenavon. Those who have visited thesite will know that many of the remains of

William Graham: Ymunaf â’rllongyfarchiadau. Ategaf y gwahoddiad agroesawyd yn eang yma o ran safle pwysig.Ni allwn fychanu ei arwyddocâd a’i naturunigryw mewn termau diwydiannol. Yr wyfyn siwr y cymera pob Aelod yn awr y cyfle iymweld â Blaenafon. Gwyr y rheini aymwelodd â’r safle fod llawer o olion yffwrneisiau chwyth yn bodoli a bod Cadw

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the blast furnaces are extant and that Cadwhas already done well in outlining andinterpreting the past.

eisoes wedi gwneud yn dda i amlinellu adehongli’r gorffennol.

I also endorse what Tom Middlehurst saidabout Big Pit being an important touristattraction. I welcome the Minister’scommitment that funds will try to be found toensure that, when large numbers of touristscome to Blaenavon, there will be somewherefor them to stay and understand itssignificance in UNESCO terms. We mustbuild on the past to ensure the future.Blaenavon is of interest to my family becausemy great-great-great grandfather providedland and capital at a time of recession in theiron industry. I point out that recession in theiron and steel industry is not only a problemof the present day. I do not want to becontroversial, but I hope that the Ministerwill join with me in sending ourcongratulations to the Secretary of State forWales in 1994, John Redwood, for hisprescience in commending this site to belisted.

Ategaf hefyd yr hyn a ddywedodd TomMiddlehurst am y Pwll Mawr yn dod ynatyniad pwysig i dwristiaid. Croesawafymrwymiad y Gweinidog y bydd yn ceisiocael arian i sicrhau, pan ddaw’r niferoeddmawr o dwristiaid i Flaenafon, y byddrhywle iddynt aros a deall ei arwyddocâd ynnhermau UNESCO. Rhaid inni adeiladu ar ygorffennol er mwyn diogelu’r dyfodol. MaeBlaenafon o ddiddordeb i’m teulu gan iddoroi tir a chyfalaf i’m hen hen hen dad-cu ynystod cyfnod o ddirwasgiad yn y diwydianthaearn. Nodaf nad problem gyfoes yn unigyw dirwasgaid yn y diwydiant haearn a dur.Ni ddymunaf fod yn ddadleuol, ondgobeithio y bydd y Gweinidog yn ymuno âmi i longyfarch Ysgrifennydd GwladolCymru yn 1994, John Redwood, am eiragwelediad wrth gymeradwyo’r safle hwn igael ei restru.

Sue Essex: I accept the point about theimportance of interpretation and facilities.The blast furnaces and Big Pit have beenmentioned. However, one exciting area thathas not been mentioned is the landscapebehind Blaenavon that extends into thenational park. Much of the currentexcavation work and research is concentratedon this area because it is unique in its ownterms. That is another element of theattraction.

Sue Essex: Derbyniaf y pwynt ambwysigrwydd dehongli a chyfleusterau.Crybwyllwyd y ffwrneisiau chwyth a’r PwllMawr. Fodd bynnag, un ardal gyffrous nascrybwyllwyd yw’r dirwedd y tu ôl iFlaenafon sydd yn ymestyn i’r parccenedlaethol. Canolbwyntia llawer o’rgwaith cloddio ac ymchwil presennol ar yrardal hon oherwydd ei natur unigryw. Maehonno yn elfen arall o’r atyniad.

11:05 a.m.

That is probably all I need to say. I do notknow about the activities of your great-great-great grandfather, but I am sure that, if heneeds to be recognised, he will be. In termsof recognition, we should also note that RonDavies was the person—I think that isright—that nominated Blaenavon in 1998. Ifthere are a few people on the roll call orother people who need to be mentioned, letus be fair and include them.

Mae’n debyg mai dyna’r cwbl sydd angenimi ei ddweud. Nid wyf yn ymwybodol oweithgareddau eich hen hen hen dad-cu, ondyr wyf yn siwr y caiff ei gydnabod os dylidgwneud hynny. Ynglyn â chydnabod pobl,dylem nodi hefyd mai Ron Davies a oedd yperson—credaf fy mod yn gywir—aenwebodd Blaenafon yn 1998. Os oes sawlperson ar y rhestr neu bobl eraill y mae angeneu crybwyll, gadewch inni fod yn deg a’ucynnwys.

Huw Lewis: A few people have bracketed Huw Lewis: Mae sawl person wedi cysylltu

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Merthyr and Blaenavon together thismorning. I cannot think why it never happensin my house. [Laughter.] However, I hopethat the interest of both towns has beenpursued with a sense of partnership since theAssembly elections in 1999. It is importantfor us to recognise and pay tribute to thosewho have worked so hard to get us to thispoint today. I know how hard Lynne hasworked to make this happen and TorfaenCounty Borough Council has been visionaryin this.

Merthyr a Blaenafon â’i gilydd y bore yma.Ni allaf feddwl pam na ddigwydd hynny bythyn fy nhy i. [Chwerthin.] Fodd bynnag,gobeithiaf fod diddordeb y ddwy dref wedi’iystyried gydag ymdeimlad o bartneriaeth ersetholiadau’r Cynulliad yn 1999. Mae’nbwysig inni gydnabod a thalu teyrnged i’rrheini a weithiodd mor galed er mwyn i nigyrraedd y pwynt hwn heddiw. Gwn pa morgaled y gweithiodd Lynne a dangoswydgweledigaeth Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Tor-faen ynglyn â hyn.

Blaenavon is a monument to labour, toil andsolidarity under exploitation. It is also amonument to innovation and wealth creation.The problem is that it reminds us of a timewhen the creation of wealth was thought tobe in opposition to social justice. That legacyremains in industrial south Wales where weare trying to develop a new society wheresocial justice and wealth creation gotogether. However, Blaenavon is a tinyreminder of the struggles of the past.

Mae Blaenafon yn gofeb i lafur, gwaith caledac undod o dan ecsbloetiaeth. Mae hefyd yngofeb i arloesedd a chreu cyfoeth. Y broblemyw ei bod yn ein hatgoffa o gyfnod pangredwyd bod creu cyfoeth yn groes igyfiawnder cymdeithasol. Erys yretifeddiaeth honno yn ne Cymruddiwydiannol lle ceisiwn ddatblygucymdeithas newydd lle yr â cyfiawndercymdeithasol a chreu cyfoeth gyda’i gilydd.Fodd bynnag, mae Blaenafon yn atgofbychan o frwydrau’r gorffennol.

We all had a giggle this morning, whenBlaenavon was compared to the Pyramids orthe Taj Mahal. It is understandable.However, I hope that today’s announcementwill go some way towards changing thatperception, because the perception of thoseoutside Wales about towns like Blaenavon isclear. They have given recognition to thetown of Blaenavon, because it is ashistorically important as those great worldmonuments and more so, I think, because it isprimarily a human monument rather than onemade of stone or metal. That changingperception is important for us. It must comefrom within and we must appreciateourselves today. Let us take a few minutes toappreciate what has happened to lead us tothis point in Wales. What lessons can welearn? As Lynne said, above all, we can nowbuild on the future of Blaenavon and theheads of the Valleys area, including Merthyr,so that we can have a better future, which isbuilt on this recognition of a great past.

Bu pob un ohonom yn chwerthin y bore yma,pan gymharwyd Blaenafon â’r Pyramidiauneu’r Taj Mahal. Mae’n ddealladwy. Foddbynnag, gobeithio yr â y cyhoeddiad heddiwryw ffordd tuag at newid yr amgyffrediadhwnnw, gan fod amgyffrediad pobl y tu allani Gymru am drefi fel Blaenafon yn glir.Rhoddasant gydnabyddiaeth i drefBlaenafon, gan ei bod yr un mor bwysig ynhanesyddol â’r henebion byd gwych hynny, amwy felly, yn fy marn i, gan mai cofebddynol ydyw yn bennaf yn hytrach nag un ogerrig neu fetel. Mae’r amgyffrediad hwnnwsydd yn newid yn bwysig inni. Rhaid iddoddod o’r tu mewn a rhaid inni werthfawrogiein hunain heddiw. Gadewch i ni dreulioychydig o funudau yn gwerthfawrogi’r hyn addigwyddodd i’n harwain at y pwynt hwnyng Nghymru. Pa wersi y gallwn eu dysgu?Fel y dywedodd Lynne, yn anad dim, gallwnyn awr ddatblygu dyfodol Blaenafon ac ardalblaenau’r Cymoedd, gan gynnwys Merthyr,fel y gallwn gael dyfodol gwell, a gaiff eiadeiladu ar y gydnabyddiaeth hon o orffennolgwych.

Sue Essex: Thank you, Huw, for those Sue Essex: Diolch, Huw, am y geiriau

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thoughtful words. Many reflections can bemade on this decision. Innovation and the toilthat goes with it should not be at the expenseof social justice. That is an important lesson.I hope that, in respecting the work thatpeople put in many years ago, we can paytribute to their memory. That is how we cando it.

ystyriol hynny. Gellir rhoi llawer o sylwadauar y penderfyniad hwn. Ni ddylai arloesedda’r gwaith caled sydd ynghlwm ag efddigwydd ar draul cyfiawnder cymdeithasol.Mae honno’n wers bwysig. Gobeithio, drwybarchu’r gwaith a wnaethpwyd gan bobl nifero flynyddoedd yn ôl, y gallwn dalu deyrngedi’w cof. Dyna sut y gallwn ei wneud.

In terms of your perceptions, you are rightthat UNESCO has not done this as a favour.It is not there because it wanted to do a goodturn for Wales. There was a big strugglebehind this and it has taken many years. Thefeeling in many areas of UNESCO is that thewestern developed world already has manyheritage sites and clearly, there are manyclaims on it now from the less developedareas of the world. It is, therefore, significantthat Blaenavon has been given thisdesignation. It is based, as you rightly say, onthe evaluation and perception that somethingspecial happened there in terms of worlddevelopment. There are artefacts in theground, but it needs interpretation to tell thestory and to learn lessons from it. It is uniqueand it could have easily been lost were it notfor the determination and imagination ofsome people. That behoves us well to thinkabout our heritage. Sometimes it is easy tocast it aside and say ‘let us put something upthat is shiny and new’. In many cases, thereis value in that heritage. As Huw says, inMerthyr, just as much as in Blaenavon, thereare some remarkable examples. The twoareas are closely linked.

Ynglŷn â’ch amgyffrediadau, yr ydych yngywir wrth ddweud na wnaeth UNESCO hynfel ffafr. Nid yw yno am ei fod yn awyddus iwneud tro da â Chymru. Bu brwydr fawr y tuôl i hyn a chymerodd nifer o flynyddoedd. Yteimlad mewn llawer o ardaloedd UNESCOyw bod llawer o safleoedd treftadaeth eisoesgan y byd datblygedig gorllewinol, ac mae’namlwg bod llawer o alwadau arno erbyn hyno ardaloedd llai datblygedig y byd. Felly,mae’n arwyddocaol y rhoddwyd y dyfarniadhwn i Flaenafon. Mae’n seiliedig, fel ydywedwch yn gywir, ar werthusiad acamgyffrediad y digwyddodd rhywbetharbennig yno o ran datblygiad y byd. Maearteffactau yn y tir, ond mae angen eudehongli er mwyn adrodd yr hanes a dysgugwersi ohono. Mae’n unigryw a gellid bodwedi ei golli yn hawdd oni bai ambenderfyniad a dychymyg rhai pobl. Dylemfeddwl am ein treftadaeth. Mae’n hawddweithiau ei rhoi o’r neilltu gan ddweud‘gadewch inni adeiladu rhywbeth llachar anewydd’. Mewn llawer o achosion, mae’rdreftadaeth honno yn werthfawr. Fel dywedHuw, ceir cymaint o enghreifftiau anhygoelym Merthyr, gymaint â’r rhai ym Mlaenafon.Cysylltir y ddwy ardal yn agos.

There are huge reflective messages for us inthis as well as it being a day of celebration.Most of all, I sincerely hope that this provesvaluable for the people of Blaenavon,because they deserve and need theregeneration that should flow from thisannouncement.

Daw hyn â negeseuon myfyriol enfawr inniyn ogystal â bod yn ddiwrnod dathlu. Ynanad dim, gobeithio’n fawr fod hyn o werth ibobl Blaenafon, gan eu bod yn haeddu’rgwaith adfywio a ddylai ddigwydd yn sgîl ycyhoeddiad hwn a bod angen y gwaith hwnarnynt.

Geraint Davies: As a Member from theValleys, I delight in the success ofBlaenavon. However, it is important that wedo not simply have success in one area; weneed to spread it throughout the Valleys. Wehave mentioned Merthyr, but we must gofurther than that. We also need to promote

Geraint Davies: Fel Aelod o’r Cymoedd,ymhyfrydaf yn llwyddiant Blaenafon. Foddbynnag, mae’n bwysig nad ydym ond yn caelllwyddiant mewn un ardal; mae angen inni eiledaenu drwy’r Cymoedd. CrybwyllasomFerthyr, ond rhaid inni fynd ymhellach nahynny. Mae angen inni hyrwyddo cynlluniau

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other good schemes in the Valleys. Forexample, we should have promoted theinternational centre for skiing in HuwLewis’s constituency. Such schemes could beincluded in the promotion, as could theRhondda Heritage Park. We could all benefitfrom this important announcement.

da eraill yn y Cymoedd hefyd. Er enghraifft,dylem fod wedi hyrwyddo’r ganolfan sgïoryngwladol yn etholaeth Huw Lewis. Gellidcynnwys cynlluniau o’r fath yn y gwaithhyrwyddo, yn ogystal â Pharc Treftadaeth yRhondda. Gallai pob un ohonom elwa o’rcyhoeddiad pwysig hwn.

In terms of your transport portfolio, it isimportant to ensure that there are linksbetween the Valleys. At the moment, thelinks are between the north and south, but weneed links between the east and west so thatthe Valleys become an integrated whole asopposed to separate communities as they areat present.

O ran eich portffolio trafnidiaeth, mae’nbwysig sicrhau bod cysylltiadau rhwng yCymoedd. Ar hyn o bryd, ceir cysylltiadaurhwng y gogledd a’r de, ond mae angencysylltiadau rhwng y dwyrain a’r gorllewinfel y daw’r Cymoedd yn gyfanrwyddintegredig yn hytrach na chymunedau arwahân fel y maent ar hyn o bryd.

Sue Essex: For many years, the WalesTourist Board has talked about marketing theValleys as one unit. Visitors, of course, seethat connection and appreciate it. I am gladthat you mentioned the Rhondda HeritagePark, because that is important. That againcame about as a result of a leap of faith takenby a few people, who felt that if they did notmake a statement the heritage and hard workof the people in the Rhondda might get lostover time.

Sue Essex: Mae Bwrdd Croeso Cymru weditrafod marchnata’r Cymoedd fel un uned ersllawer o flynyddoedd. Mae ymwelwyr yngweld y cysylltiad hwnnw, wrth gwrs, ac ynei werthfawrogi. Yr wyf yn falch ycrybwyllasoch Barc Treftadaeth y Rhondda,gan fod hynny’n bwysig. Digwyddodd hynnyeto o ganlyniad i naid ffydd a gymerwyd ganychydig o bobl, a oedd o’r farn y câitreftadaeth a gwaith caled pobl y Rhondda eigolli dros amser os na wnaent ddatganiad.

The Valleys have many examples of placesthat reflect history and people’s dedication. Ifwe can present them in an integratedpackage, we can provide a story that willenable visitors, in particular, who do notknow the background, to get the maximumenjoyment.

Mae llawer o enghreifftiau gan y Cymoedd oleoedd sydd yn adlewyrchu hanes acymroddiad pobl. Os gallwn eu cyflwyno ynbecyn integredig, gallwn roi stori a fydd yngalluogi ymwelwyr, yn benodol, na wyddanty cefndir, i gael y mwynhad mwyaf.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Before wecontinue, I want to say that this statementtook about three-quarters of an hour.Statements should be shorter and Membersshould ask the Ministers questions in order tohold them to account. Having said that, Irealise that this statement was different. Itwas about an important UNESCO decision. Ithink that everybody who wished to speakhas been able to do so.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Cyn inni barhau,hoffwn ddweud bod y datganiad hwn wedicymryd tua thri chwarter awr. Dylaidatganiadau fod yn fyrrach a dylai’r Aelodauofyn cwestiynau i’r Gweinidogion er mwyneu gwneud yn atebol. Wedi dweud hynny,sylweddolaf fod y datganiad hwn ynwahanol. Yr oedd yn ymwneud âphenderfyniad pwysig gan UNESCO. Credafy siaradodd pawb a ddymunodd wneudhynny.

Strategaeth i Hybu Iechyd a Lles: Parhad o’r DdadlStrategy to Promote Health and Wellbeing: Continuation of the Debate

Kirsty Williams: I welcome this morning’s Kirsty Williams: Croesawaf y ddadl y bore

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debate. The Minister for Health and SocialServices is on her feet far too oftendiscussing issues relating to those whodeliver a service to people who are alreadyill. That is backed up by the fact that the vastmajority of resources in the NHS budget gotowards treating people who are already ill. Itadds weight to the cliché that we do not havea national health service in Wales, but anational illness service.

yma. Mae’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd aGwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ar ei thraed ynrhy aml yn trafod materion sydd yn ymwneudâ’r rheini sydd yn darparu gwasanaeth i boblsydd eisoes yn sâl. Ategir hynny gan y ffaithbod y mwyafrif helaeth o adnoddau yngnghyllideb yr NHS yn mynd tuag at drin poblsydd eisoes yn sâl. Mae’n pwysleisio’rystrydeb nad oes gennym wasanaeth iechydgwladol yng Nghymru, ond gwasanaethsalwch gwladol.

The Liberal Democrats welcome theemphasis on prevention being better thancure. We are delighted that the partnershipagreement shows a commitment to deliveringon this. Jane has answered questions thismorning on the provision of breakfast clubsand fruit tuck shops. We also plan toreintroduce free school milk for pupils underthe age of seven. There is also a need to lookat prescription charges, freezing andabolishing them for certain groups. There isevidence that many people do not seek initialhelp for ailments because they cannot affordto pay £6 for a prescription.

Croesawa’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol ypwyslais ar atal yn hytrach na gwella. Yrydym yn falch bod y cytundeb partneriaethyn dangos ymrwymiad i gyflwyno ar hyn.Mae Jane wedi ateb cwestiynau y bore ymaar ddarparu clybiau brecwast a siopauffrwythau bach mewn ysgolion. Bwriadwnhefyd ailgyflwyno llaeth ysgol am ddim iddisgyblion o dan saith oed. Mae angenedrych hefyd ar daliadau presgripsiwn, eurhewi a’u diddymu ar gyfer grwpiau penodol.Mae tystiolaeth nad yw llawer o bobl yngofyn am gymorth cychwynnol ar gyferafiechydon gan na allant fforddio talu £6 ambresgripsiwn.

The Health and Social Services Committeehas carried out much work on the issue ofeye examinations. I hope that the innovativeeye care scheme on which officials have beenworking will soon be in place and willprovide greater opportunities for people tohave preventative eye screeningexaminations.

Mae’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a GwasanaethauCymdeithasol wedi cyflawni llawer o waithar fater archwiliadau llygaid. Gobeithiaf ybydd y cynllun gofal llygaid arloesol, y buswyddogion yn gweithio arno, yn weithredolcyn bo hir ac yn darparu mwy o gyfleoedd ibobl gael archwiliadau sgrinio llygaid ataliol.

11:15 a.m.

The second general Welsh health surveyshowed that a vast majority of the populationdo not visit the dentist regularly, and aquarter of those who were asked why theydid not go for an annual check-up cited costand affordability as the main reason.Therefore, the provision in the partnershipagreement to extend free dental services isalso welcomed

Dangosodd yr ail arolwg iechyd cyffredinolyng Nghymru nad yw mwyafrif helaeth yboblogaeth yn ymweld â’r deintydd ynrheolaidd, a dywedodd chwarter o’r rheini ygofynnwyd iddynt pam nad oeddent yn myndam archwiliad blynyddol mai’r prif reswmam hyn oedd cost yr archwiliad ac a oeddentyn gallu ei fforddio. Felly, croesewir yddarpariaeth yn y cytundeb partneriaeth iymestyn gwasanaethau deintyddol am ddimhefyd.

I will mention two aspects of the strategy, inparticular, I welcome the section on olderpeople. Age Concern and Help the Aged

Soniaf am ddwy agwedd ar y strategaeth. Ynarbennig, croesawaf yr adran ar bobl hyn.Mae Age Concern a Help the Aged wedi

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have done much work in health promotionfor older people who often get left out anddrop off the end of the scale. Too often,health promotion is seen in terms ofpreventing young people and people inmiddle age from acquiring bad habits. Iparticularly welcome the commitment tocarry out a review of the effects of lonelinessand isolation. This is a problem whereverolder people live, and it is particularly acutein rural areas. While canvassing, I cameacross an elderly lady who, since the death ofher husband three years ago, had never lefther home, and her only contact with peoplewas with one set of neighbours who did hershopping. It is little surprise, with such highlevels of isolation for older people in ourcommunities, that 44 per cent of people inWales who suffer from mental illness areover the age of 65. I welcome, therefore, theemphasis on health solutions for older peopleand on considering the needs of carers,because many of them are older peoplecaring for a partner.

gwneud llawer o waith o ran hybu iechyd ibobl hyn a esgeulusir yn aml ac nad ydynt ynrhan o’r darlun cyffredinol o gwbl. Ynamlach na pheidio, ystyrir hybu iechyd ynnhermau atal pobl ifanc a phobl canol oedrhag meithrin arferion gwael. Croesawaf ynarbennig yr ymrwymiad i gynnal adolygiad oeffeithiau unigrwydd ac arwahanrwydd. Maehon yn broblem lle bynnag y mae pobl hynyn byw, ac mae’n arbennig o wael mewnardaloedd gwledig. Wrth ganfasio, deuthumar draws gwraig oedrannus nad oedd, ersmarwolaeth ei gwr dair blynedd yn ôl, erioedwedi gadael ei chartref, a’u hunig gyswllt âphobl oedd â chymdogion a oedd yn siopaiddi. Nid yw’n syndod felly, gyda lefelaumor uchel o arwahanrwydd ar gyfer pobl hynyn ein cymunedau, bod 44 y cant o bobl yngNghymru sydd yn dioddef o salwch meddwldros 65 mlwydd oed. Felly, croesawaf ypwyslais ar atebion iechyd i bobl hyn ac arystyried anghenion cynhalwyr, gan fodllawer ohonynt yn bobl hyn sydd yn gofaluam bartner.

I also particularly welcome the emphasis onhealth information. The strategyacknowledges that there are huge deficits inhealth information provision. It is not alwaysaccessible, nor does it always meet theindividual needs of certain sectors of society.For example, literature does not always takeinto account the needs of younger people orblack and ethnic minority people and theneeds of the Welsh-speaking population ofWales—people who have Welsh as their firstlanguage who are, in many cases, unable toaccess health information in their firstlanguage. I welcome the acknowledgementof these problems and the moves to improvethe access to health information for olderpeople.

Croesawaf yn arbennig hefyd y pwyslais arwybodaeth iechyd. Mae’r strategaeth yncydnabod bod diffygion mawr o randarpariaeth yr wybodaeth iechyd. Nid ywbob amser yn hygyrch, ac nid yw bob amseryn diwallu anghenion unigol sectoraupenodol o gymdeithas. Er enghraifft, nid ywllenyddiaeth bob amser yn ystyriedanghenion pobl iau neu bobl ddu a lleiafrifolethnig ac anghenion y bobl sydd yn siaradCymraeg yng Nghymru—pobl sydd yn siaradCymraeg fel eu hiaith gyntaf na allant, mewnllawer o achosion, gael gafael ar yrwybodaeth iechyd yn eu hiaith gyntaf.Croesawaf y ffaith y cydnabyddir yproblemau hyn a’r camau sydd yn cael eucymryd i wella hawl pobl hyn i wybodaetham iechyd.

I welcome also the amendments put forwardby Jocelyn and David that draw attention tothe fact that health and health promotion arenot only the job of the Health and SocialServices Committee, and that they cannot beimposed on a reluctant population. As Davidsaid, individuals have their part to play.Improving health is the job of all AssemblySubject Committees, not just the one I chair,

Croesawaf hefyd y gwelliannau agyflwynwyd gan Jocelyn a David a dynnoddsylw at y ffaith mai nid gwaith y PwyllgorIechyd a Gwasanaethau yn unig yw iechyd ahybu iechyd, ac ni ellir eu gorfodi arboblogaeth amharod. Fel y dywedodd David,mae gan unigolion eu rhan i’w chwarae.Gwella iechyd yw gwaith pob un oBwyllgorau Pwnc y Cynulliad, nid dim ond

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and the job of our partners. The correlationbetween poverty and ill-health cannot bechallenged. Our lower levels of economicactivity are reflected in our lower levels ofhealth. Our poor housing stock andhomelessness figures also have a directcorrelation with the health of our citizens.Individuals need to make their owncontribution and should be given the tools todo that. It is easy for us to lecture about theneeds of a healthy diet, but when you are onlimited income or do not have access to aretailing outlet with a good supply of freshfood or, as David mentioned, do not knowwhat to do with it, then you cannot makethose differences. Your comments, David,particularly struck home with me. I comefrom a generation of people who were nottaught to cook at school. I am still at a loss asto what to do with a marrow or an aubergine,but I am a terror with frozen pizzas.

yr un a gadeiriaf i, a gwaith ein partneriaid.Ni ellir herio’r gyd-berthynas rhwng tlodi acafiechyd. Adlewyrchir ein lefelau is oweithgaredd economaidd yn ein lefelauiechyd is. Mae cyd-berthynas hefyd rhwngein stoc tai a’n ffigurau digartrefedd gwael aiechyd ein dinasyddion. Mae angen iunigolion wneud eu cyfraniad eu hunain adylid rhoi’r offer iddynt wneud hynny.Mae’n hawdd inni bregethu am angheniondeiet iach, ond pan fydd gennych incwmcyfyngedig neu os nad oes siop o fewn eichcyrraedd sydd â chyflenwad da o fwyd ffresneu, fel y soniodd Dave, os na wyddoch bethi’w wneud ag ef, yna ni allwch wneud ygwahanaiethau hynny. Gwnaeth eichsylwadau, David, daro’r nod. Dof ogenhedlaeth o bobl na chawsant eu dysgu igoginio yn yr ysgol. Ni wn beth i’w wneudgyda phwmpen neu blanhigyn wy, ond yrwyf yn hen law ar goginio pizzas wedi eurhewi.

I turn to the piousness of certain AssemblyMembers on smoking. Alun Pugh has left theChamber. It is easy for people like Alun who,I suppose, has never let a cigarette pass hislips, but as an ex-smoker I can tell you howdifficult it is to give up and to tackle theproblems that underlie the reasons why yousmoked in the first place. Smoking is often acrutch for other problems that people have,and it is not just a question of tackling theproblems of giving up the addiction, but alsothe underlying causes of why people want tosmoke in the first place, whether there areissues of confidence or stress. We musttackle the problem in different ways.

Trof at dduwioldeb rhai Aelodau o’rCynulliad ar ysmygu. Mae Alun Pugh wedigadael y Siambr. Mae’n hawdd i bobl felAlun, nad yw, fe dybiaf, erioed wedi rhoisigarét yn ei geg ond fel cyn ysmygwr gallafddweud wrthych pa mor anodd yw rhoi’rgorau iddo a mynd i’r afael â’r problemausydd yn sail i’r rhesymau pam yr oeddech ynysmygu yn y lle cyntaf. Mae ysmygu yn amlyn fagl ar gyfer problemau eraill sydd ganbobl, ac nid cwestiwn o fynd i’r afael âphroblemau rhoi’r gorau i’r caethineb ynunig ydyw, ond mynd i’r afael hefyd â’rrhesymau sylfaenol dros ysmygu yn y llecyntaf, ac a yw hyder neu straen yn arwain atysmygu. Rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â’r broblemmewn ffyrdd gwahanol.

Jocelyn Davies: Would you, therefore,condemn some of the UK’s personalities,such as the Spice Girls, who smoke to reducetheir weight?

Jocelyn Davies: Felly, a fyddech yncondemnio rhai o enwogion y DU, fel ySpice Girls, sydd yn ysmygu i golli pwysau?

Kirsty Williams: Absolutely. As someonewhose prime motivation for starting to smokewas the myth that smoking keeps you thin, Iagree with you. We must dispel these mythsbecause young women form the fastestgrowing sector of smokers. We have beensuccessful in reducing the numbers in other

Kirsty Williams: Yn sicr. Fel rhywun agafodd ei hysgogi i ddechrau ysmyguoherwydd y myth bod ysmygu yn eichcadw’n denau, cytunaf â chi. Rhaid inni gaelgwared ar y mythau hyn gan mai merchedifanc yw’r grwp o ysmygwyr sydd yncynyddu gyflymaf. Buom yn llwyddiannus

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groups of smokers, or in helping them to giveup. Young women are particularly vulnerablebecause of media and peer pressure, andbecause of the myth that, if you smoke, youcan eat as much as you like without gainingweight.

wrth ostwng y niferoedd mewn grwpiaueraill o ysmygwyr, neu wrth eu helpu i roi’rgorau iddo. Mae merched ifanc yn arbennig oddiamddiffyn oherwydd pwysau’r cyfryngaua phwysau cyfoedion, ac oherwydd y myth,os ydych yn ysmygu, y gallwch fwytacymaint ag y dymunwch heb fagu pwysau.

Ron Davies: Do you have any advice forpoliticians who admit to drinking 14 pints aday in their youth?

Ron Davies: A oes gennych unrhyw gyngor iwleidyddion sydd yn cyfaddef eu bod wediyfed 14 peint y dydd yn ystod eu hieuenctid?

Kirsty Williams: All I can say to that, Ron,is that it must be a stressful job believing thatragtag bunch called the Conservative Party.[CONSERVATIVE ASSEMBLY MEMBERS:‘Oh.’]

Kirsty Williams: Y cyfan y gallaf ei ddweudar y mater hwnnw Ron yw, mae’n rhaid body gwaith o gredu’r gwehilion a elwir y BlaidGeidwadol yn achosi llawer o straen.[AELODAU CEIDWADOL O’R CYNULLIAD:‘O.’]

With regard to exercise, we all know whatwe should do, but are guilty of not doing asmuch as we could. That can be due to poorprovision of physical education at school,which does not instil in people the desire toparticipate in sport.

O ran ymarfer, gwyr pob un ohonom beth ydylem fod yn ei wneud, ond yr ydym yn euogo beidio â gwneud cymaint ag y gallem. Gallhynny fod o ganlyniad i ddarpariaeth wael oran addysg gorfforol yn yr ysgol, nad yw’nmeithrin pobl i gymryd rhan mewnchwaraeon.

David Davies: Do you share the concern,therefore, about the number of schoolplaying fields that are being sold? What isthe partnership council doing to stop thisshameful sell-off of the nation’s sportingfacilities?

David Davies: A ydych yn rhannu’r pryder,felly, ynglyn â nifer y meysydd chwaraemewn ysgolion sydd yn cael eu gwerthu?Beth mae’r cyngor partneriaeth yn ei wneud iatal cyfleusterau chwaraeon y genedl rhagcael eu gwerthu mewn modd cywilyddus?

Kirsty Williams: You have pre-empted mynext comment about school playing grounds.However, the problem in Wales has not beenas acute as it was in England. As Iunderstand, the worst level of school playingfield sell-off was during the period of the lastGovernment, David. I welcome, therefore,your conversion to the issue and thank youfor that statement. I am aware that I have runout of time, therefore I conclude with thatpoint.

Kirsty Williams: Dyna’r union sylw yroeddwn ar fin ei wneud am feysydd chwaraemewn ysgolion. Fodd bynnag, ni fu’rbroblem yng Nghymru mor wael ag y bu ynLloegr. Fel y deallaf, bu’r lefel uchaf owerthu meysydd chwarae mewn ysgolion ynystod cyfnod y Llywodraeth ddiwethaf,David. Felly, croesawaf y ffaith eich bodwedi troi at y mater hwn a diolchaf ichi am ydatganiad hwnnw. Yr wyf yn ymwybodolbod fy amser wedi dod i ben, felly dof i bengyda’r pwynt hwnnw.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: DavidDavies.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: David Davies.

David Davies: I had not realised that I wassupposed to speak on this.

David Davies: Nid oeddwn wedi sylweddolibod disgwyl imi siarad ar y mater hwn.

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The Deputy Presiding Officer: You sentme an e-mail message asking to contribute.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Anfonasoch neges e-bost ataf yn gofyn am gael cyfrannu.

David Davies: I have mentioned schoolplaying fields many times. We haveexperienced problems in receivinginformation from answers to oral and writtenquestions on this subject. We are alwaysinformed that information is not collatedcentrally. The National Playing FieldsAssociation told me, informally—althoughthe statistics to prove this are not available—that the number of playing fields in Walesbeing sold-off has increased during the pastfew years.

David Davies: Yr wyf wedi sôn sawl gwaitham feysydd chwarae mewn ysgolion.Cawsom broblemau wrth gael gwybodaeth oatebion i gwestiynau llafar ac ysgrifenedig ary pwnc hwn. Dywedir wrthym bob amser nacholadir yr wybodaeth yn ganolog.Dywedodd y Gymdeithas Meysydd ChwaraeGenedlaethol wrthyf, yn anffurfiol—er nadyw’r ystadegau ar gael i brofi hyn—fod nifery meysydd chwarae yng Nghymru a werthirwedi cynyddu yn ystod yr ychydigflynyddoedd diwethaf.

With regard to Kirsty’s point about smoking,I was also a smoker, and used to do so atschool. The opportunity to take part inexercise during the lunch hour was, oddlyenough, one of the things that stopped mesmoking. The availability of playing fields is,therefore, important. I accept that they weresold off under the previous Government,which was a mistake, but it should now stop.We should ensure the availability of statisticsshowing how many are under threat, so thatwe can put a halt to it.

Ynglŷn â phwynt Kirsty am ysmygu, bûminnau yn ysmygwr hefyd, ac arferwn wneudhynny yn yr ysgol. Y cyfle i gymryd rhanmewn ymarfer corff yn ystod yr awr ginio, ynddigon rhyfedd, oedd un o’r pethau a wnaethimi roi’r gorau i ysmygu. Felly maeargaeledd meysydd chwarae, yn bwysig.Derbyniaf y cawsant eu gwerthu o dan yLlywodraeth flaenorol, a oedd yngamgymeriad, ond dylai ddod i ben yn awr.Dylem sicrhau fod ystadegau ar gael sydd yndangos faint ohonynt sydd o dan fygythiad,fel y gallwn atal hyn.

Christine Chapman: I welcome this debateand the lead taken by the Assembly in thepromotion of health and wellbeing. We havemade a commitment to the best principles ofjoined-up working, in partnership, to achievethe best results. I am pleased that we arestarting to move away from the idea of healthestablishments, which encouraged the ‘weknow best’ mentality. As highlighted in‘Betterwales.com’, the reduction of healthinequalities is one of our key strategicthemes. We are beginning to effect change inthis area. As ‘Betterwales.com’ points out,the challenges are great, because censusinformation shows that a much higherproportion of our people report a limitinglong-term illness, compared with the UKaverage.

Christine Chapman: Croesawaf y ddadl hona’r arweiniad a gymerwyd gan y Cynulliadwrth hybu iechyd a lles. Ymrwymasom iegwyddorion gorau cydweithio, mewnpartneriaeth, i gyflawni’r canlyniadau gorau.Yr wyf yn falch ein bod wedi dechrau symudi ffwrdd o’r syniad o sefydliadau iechyd, aanogodd y meddylfryd ‘ni a wyr orau’. Fel yramlygwyd yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’, lleihauanghydraddoldebau iechyd yw un o’n themâustrategol allweddol. Yr ydym yn dechrauachosi newid yn y maes hwn. Fel y noda‘Gwellcymru.com’, mae’r heriau yn enfawr,oherwydd dengys gwybodaeth y cyfrifiad fodcyfran uwch o lawer o’n pobl wedi eucofnodi fel rhai sydd â salwch tymor hir, o’igymharu â chyfartaledd y DU.

11:25 a.m.

The task before us is great. It must beapproached head on, and we have shown that

Mae’r dasg ger ein bron yn fawr. Rhaidymdrin â’r dasg ar ei phen, ac yr ydym wedi

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we are beginning to tackle the work.However, bearing in mind that results willtake a generation to take effect, it isimportant that we begin now. Good thingsare already happening.

dangos ein bod yn dechrau mynd i’r afael â’rgwaith. Fodd bynnag, o gofio y cymer ycanlyniadau genhedlaeth i weithio, mae’nbwysig ein bod yn dechrau yn awr. Maepethau da eisoes yn digwydd.

As members of the South East WalesRegional Committee will be told at itsmeeting tomorrow, the health improvementprogramme, which identifies the keypriorities for the residents of the area coveredby Bro Taf Health Authority, and the recentbudget announcement means that theauthority will have more money to tacklethese issues. We should celebrate that.

Fel y dywedir wrth aelodau o BwyllgorRhanbarth y De-ddwyrain yn ei gyfarfodyfory, golyga’r rhaglen gwella iechyd, syddyn nodi’r blaenoriaethau allweddol ar gyfertrigolion yr ardal a gwmpesir gan AwdurdodIechyd Bro Taf, a’r cyhoeddiad diweddar amy gyllideb y bydd gan yr awdurdod ragor oarian i fynd i’r afael â’r materion hyn.Dylem ddathlu hynny.

All these priorities are aimed at reducinginequality between areas and withincommunities. This will result in easier accessto a range of high quality services andsupport for individuals and communities inless advantaged areas.

Mae gan bob un o’r blaenoriaethau hyn ybwriad clir o leihau anghydraddoldeb rhwngardaloedd ac o fewn cymunedau. Bydd hynyn arwain at fanteisio’n haws ar ystod owasanaethau o ansawdd uchel a chymorth iunigolion a chymunedau mewn ardaloedd llaibreintiedig.

Locally, I can already see excellent examplesof good work stemming from the Assembly’slead. In the Cynon Valley, the local healthgroup, under the chairmanship of Dr ChrisJones, is undertaking excellent work. Arecent series of public meetings has resultedin the development of a business case for anew neighbourhood hospital and two primarycare centres. The community has been fullyinvolved in this, which did not happen priorto establishing the Assembly. We also have ascheme to attract new general practitioners tothe valley. I have mentioned many times inthe Chamber our difficulties in doing thatbecause of the Cynon Valley’s high rates ofdeprivation. We must focus on all these gooddevelopments.

Yn lleol, gallaf eisoes weld enghreifftiaurhagorol o waith da yn deillio o arweiniad yCynulliad. Yng Nghwm Cynon, gwna’r grwpiechyd lleol, o dan gadeiryddiaeth Dr ChrisJones, waith rhagorol. Arweiniodd cyfresddiweddar o gyfarfodydd cyhoeddus atddatblygu achos busnes ar gyfer ysbytycymdogaeth newydd a dwy ganolfan gofalsylfaenol. Mae’r gymuned wedi chwaraerhan lawn yn hyn, rhywbeth na ddigwyddaicyn sefydlu’r Cynulliad. Mae gennymgynllun hefyd i ddenu meddygon teulunewydd i’r cwm. Soniais lawer gwaith yn ySiambr am ein hanawsterau wrth wneud hynoherwydd cyfraddau amddifadedd uchelCwm Cynon. Rhaid inni ganolbwyntio ar bobun o’r datblygiadau da hynny.

There are many challenges. As Kirsty hasdiscussed the elderly population, I will focuson young people. Young people do notalways take kindly to good advice. I agreewith Kirsty that us pontificating here will notmake a difference. Good health is not alwayson young people’s minds when they considerthemselves fit and healthy. It is clear that anystrategy must take this on board and be asinnovative as possible. Joined-up working isessential.

Mae sawl her. Gan fod Kirsty wedi trafod yboblogaeth oedrannus, canolbwyntiaf ar boblifanc. Nid yw pobl ifanc bob tro yn croesawucyngor da. Cytunaf â Kirsty na fydddoethinebu ar ein rhan ni yma yn gwneudgwahaniaeth. Nid yw iechyd da bob amser arfeddwl pobl ifanc pan ystyriant eu bod yn ffitac yn iach. Mae’n amlwg bod yn rhaid iunrhyw strategaeth ystyried hyn a bod morarloesol â phosibl. Mae cydweithio ynhanfodol.

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I welcome the fact that David mentioned thehigh rate of teenage pregnancies. Wales hasone of the highest rates of teenagepregnancies in western Europe, which is apoverty-related issue. However, it alsorelates to the low aspirations of girls. It is notalways easy to talk about that, as there iscurrently a focus on the underachievement ofboys. I do not want to underestimate that.However, we must still acknowledge thedifficulty of the low aspirations of girls, asthere is a correlation between that and thehigh rate of teenage pregnancies. We musttreat them both together in order to beeffective.

Croesawaf y ffaith fod David wedi sôn am ygyfradd uchel o ferched yn eu harddegausydd yn beichiogi. Mae gan Gymru un o’rcyfraddau uchaf o feichiogrwydd ymhlithmerched yn eu harddegau yng ngorllewinEwrop. Mae hwn yn fater sydd yngysylltiedig â thlodi. Fodd bynnag, maehefyd yn ymwneud â dyheadau isel merched.Nid yw bob amser yn hawdd siarad amhynny, gan fod y canolbwynt ar hyn o bryd arfechgyn yn tangyflawni. Nid wyf amdanbrisio hynny. Fodd bynnag, rhaid innigydnabod o hyd yr anhawster ynghylchdyheadau isel merched, gan fod cydberthynasrhwng hynny â’r gyfradd uchel o ferched yneu harddegau sydd yn beichiogi. Rhaid innieu trin gyda’i gilydd er mwyn bod yneffeithiol.

We know that there is a correlation betweena lack of female GPs and high rates ofteenage pregnancies. Clinicians must takethat into account when taking on newpartners. There is also potential for muchmore collaborative work among teachers,youth workers, nurses, doctors and others,who can come up with solutions together. Noone group has all the answers.

Gwyddom fod cydberthynas rhwng prindermeddygon teulu benywaidd a’r gyfradd uchelo ferched yn eu harddegau sydd yn beichiogi.Rhaid i glinigwyr ystyried hynny wrth benodipartneriaid newydd. Mae potensial hefyd amfwy o gydweithio ymhlith athrawon,gweithwyr ieuenctid, nyrsys, meddygon aceraill, a all feddwl am atebion gyda’i gilydd.Nid oes gan un grwp yr atebion i gyd.

There is also a suggestion that, if girls areencouraged much more to participate in sportand build their self-confidence, it may have aknock-on effect on the high rates of teenagepregnancy. There is a clear role for theSports Council for Wales, with which I havehad many discussions on this. I am delightedthat it is now committed to a strategy tolessen the large gap between the sportparticipation rates of men and women inWales. There has been an appalling gap overthe years. This is another example of joined-up thinking and working in action.

Mae awgrym hefyd, os anogir merched igymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon a chynyddueu hunan hyder, y caiff effaith gynyddolefallai ar gyfraddau uchel beichiogrwyddymhlith merched yn eu harddegau. Mae rôlglir ar gyfer Cyngor Chwaraeon Cymru, ac yrwyf wedi cael llawer o drafodaethau â hwyynglyn â hyn. Yr wyf wrth fy modd ei fodbellach yn ymrwymedig i strategaeth ileihau’r bwlch mawr yn y cyfraddau cymrydrhan mewn chwaraeon rhwng dynion amerched yng Nghymru. Bu bwlch arswydusdros y blynyddoedd. Mae hon yn enghraifftarall o gydfeddwl a chydweithredu.

Kirsty Williams: Do you agree that, notonly are there variations between men andwomen with regard to participation in sport,but that there is also a large gap in theparticipation of women from ethnicminorities in Wales?

Kirsty Williams: A gytunwch nid yn unigfod amrywiadau rhwng dynion a merched oran cymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon, ond bodbwlch mawr hefyd yn nifer y merched oleiafrifoedd ethnig yng Nghymru?

Christine Chapman: I agree. Bodies that areresponsible to the Assembly must do much

Christine Chapman: Cytunaf. Rhaid i gyrffsydd yn atebol i’r Cynulliad wneud llawer

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more innovative work to tackle theseproblems, as we have only paid lip service toit in the past.

mwy o waith arloesol i fynd i’r afael â’rproblemau hyn, gan mai dim ond cefnogaethmewn enw a fu ar ein rhan yn y gorffennol.

We should not be afraid to consider howother countries solve some of theseproblems. Holland’s teenage pregnancy ratesare much lower, partly because its sexeducation lessons are more effective. Theidea of relationships, not only the mechanicsof sex, is discussed much more openly. Thereseems to be much more equality betweengirls and boys in the classroom. Students areencouraged to treat each other as equals, notjust as sexual partners.

Ni ddylai fod arnom ofn ystyried sut y maegwledydd eraill yn datrys rhai o’r problemauhyn. Mae cyfraddau beichiogrwydd ymhlithmerched yn eu harddegau yn yr Iseldiroeddyn llawer is, yn rhannol gan bod ei gwersiaddysg rhyw yn fwy effeithiol. Trafodir ysyniad o berthynas, nid cyfathrach rywiol ynunig, yn llawer mwy agored. Ymddengysfod llawer o mwy o gydraddoldeb rhwngmerched a bechgyn yn yr ystafell ddosbarth.Anogir myfyrwyr i drin ei gilydd yn gyfartal,nid fel partneriaid rhywiol yn unig.

We can do much more in Wales to improvethe situation. All the ideas that I havediscussed require agencies to work together.That is where the crucial element of ourplans will succeed or fail.

Gallwn wneud llawer mwy yng Nghymru iwella’r sefyllfa. Mae’r holl syniadau adrafodais yn galw ar asiantaethau i weithiogyda’i gilydd. Dyna lle y bydd elfen hollbwysig ein cynlluniau yn llwyddo neu’nmethu.

Geraint Davies: I declare an interest as apharmacist and a member of Rhondda CynonTaff County Borough Council. If we are topromote health and wellbeing effectively, wemust have long-term, practical andadequately resourced action programmes. Ifwe could cure the sick with reports andstrategies, Wales would not have a problem.There has been a plethora of reports andstrategies. We need adequately funded actionto address our communities’ appalling healthstatistics.

Geraint Davies: Datganaf fuddiant felfferyllydd ac fel aelod o Gyngor BwrdeistrefSirol Rhondda Cynon Taf. Os ydym i hybuiechyd a lles yn effeithiol, rhaid inni gaelrhaglenni gweithredu tymor hir, ymarferolgydag adnoddau digonol. Pe gallem wellacleifion gydag adroddiadau a strategaethau,ni fyddai gan Gymru broblem. Bugormodedd o adroddiadau a strategaethau.Mae angen cymryd camau wedi’u hariannu’nddigonol i ymdrin ag ystadegau iechydgwarthus ein cymunedau.

The announcement yesterday that Bro TafHealth Authority has approved Pontypriddand Rhondda NHS Trust’s outline businesscase for a replacement hospital forLlwynypia will assist health promotion in theRhondda. We have been waiting for morethan 20 years for this facility and havereceived enough consultation documents topaper the Assembly’s walls. I welcome thismove as it includes positive proposals topromote the health and wellbeing ofRhondda citizens. For example, there will befacilities to improve the working between thehospital service and social services, as DaiLloyd mentioned. It is important to workwith a hospital service that provides primary

Bydd y cyhoeddiad ddoe bod AwdurdodIechyd Bro Taf wedi cymeradwyo achosbusnes Ymddiriedolaeth NHS Pontypridd aRhondda am ysbyty newydd ar gyferLlwynypia yn helpu i hybu iechyd yn yRhondda. Buom yn aros am fwy nag 20mlynedd am y cyfleuster hwn a chawsomddigon o ddogfennau ymgynghori i bapurowaliau’r Cynulliad. Croesawaf y cam hwngan ei fod yn cynnwys cynigion cadarnhaol ihybu iechyd a lles dinasyddion y Rhondda.Er enghraifft, bydd cyfleusterau i wella’rcydweithio rhwng gwasanaeth yr ysbyty agwasanaethau cymdeithasol, fel y sonioddDai Lloyd. Mae’n bwysig gweithio gydagwasanaeth ysbyty sydd yn darparu gofal

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care. There will be facilities for workingtogether in primary care, which is a newinitiative. These facilities are important inaddressing the health divide.

sylfaenol. Bydd cyfleusterau ar gyfercydweithio mewn gofal sylfaenol, sydd ynfenter newydd. Mae’r cyfleusterau hyn ynbwysig wrth ymdrin â’r bwlch ym maesiechyd.

However, I am concerned about proposals toreduce the number of beds in this facilityfrom 134 to 108, especially in light of thebed crisis that we have experienced in thepast. We have been promised an increase inbeds, not a reduction. The role of thecasualty department appears to have beendowngraded, as it has been termed a minorinjuries unit. In the past, ambulancesresponding to 999 calls have taken patients toLlwynypia by way of a triage systemwhereby suitable patients were treatedlocally rather than having to be taken to thedistrict general hospital. This has nowceased, which causes a problem. If facilitiesare not used, they will wither on the vineeventually. There is also great uncertaintyabout the future of pathology andradiotherapy facilities at this hospital.Services are being centralised to the districtgeneral hospital.

Fodd bynnag, pryderaf am y cynigion iostwng nifer y gwelyau yn y cyfleuster hwn o134 i 108, yn arbennig yng ngoleuni’rargyfwng gwelyau a brofasom yn ygorffennol. Addawyd cynnydd mewngwelyau inni, nid gostyngiad. Ymddengysfod rôl yr adran damweiniau ac achosion bryswedi ei hisraddio, gan ei bod wedi cael eigalw’n uned mân anafiadau. Yn y gorffennol,mae ambiwlansys sydd yn ymateb i alwadau999 wedi mynd â chleifion i Lwynypia drwygyfrwng system flaenoriaethu lle yrymdriniwyd â chleifion addas yn lleol ynhytrach na mynd â hwy i’r ysbyty cyffredinoldosbarth. Mae hyn bellach wedi dod i ben,sydd yn achosi problem. Os na ddefnyddir ycyfleusterau, byddant yn diflannu yn y pendraw. Mae ansicrwydd mawr hefyd ynghylchdyfodol cyfleusterau patholeg a radiotherapiyn yr ysbyty hwn. Caiff y gwasanaethau eucanoli i’r ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth.

The report does not mention telemedicine,which is a crucial and novel way ofproviding high-standard health services incommunities. The private finance initiative isa big problem about which I am concerned. Itis expensive in the long term and dividesstaff. The delay in implementing this schemeis also of great concern because we havebeen waiting over 20 years, as I said.

Nid yw’r adroddiad yn sôn amdelefeddygaeth, sydd yn ffordd holl bwysig anewydd o ddarparu gwasanaethau iechyd osafon uchel mewn cymunedau. Mae’r fentercyllid preifat yn broblem fawr y pryderafamdani. Mae’n gostus yn y tymor hir ac ynrhannu staff. Mae’r oedi wrth weithredu’rcynllun hwn yn achosi pryder mawr hefydgan y buom yn aros mwy nag 20 mlynedd fely soniais.

When Jane Hutt has time to consider thisnew business plan, I ask her to givepermission to Pontypridd and Rhondda NHSTrust to buy the site of the old Brambersfactory. It is the ideal and only site availablefor such a facility in the Rhondda. By givingthis permission, she will give a tremendousboost to the project and will prove that it willgo ahead. We have been promised much inthe past. Having that facility would do morethan anything to promote health andwellbeing in the Rhondda Valley.

Pan fydd gan Jane Hutt amser i ystyried ycynllun busnes newydd hwn, gofynnaf iddiroi caniatâd i Ymddiriedolaeth NHSPontypridd a’r Rhondda i brynu safle henffatri Brambers. Hwn yw’r unig safle sydd argael ar gyfer cyfleuster o’r fath yn yRhondda ac mae’n ddelfrydol. Drwy roicaniatâd, bydd yn rhoi hwb aruthrol i’rprosiect ac yn profi yr â yn ei flaen. Cawsomlawer o addewidion yn y gorffennol. Byddaicael y cyfleuster hwnnw yn gwneud mwy nagunrhyw beth i hybu iechyd a lles yng NghwmRhondda.

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11:35 a.m.

Lorraine Barrett: I declare an interest as aschool governor in Albert Road PrimarySchool in Penarth. On the statement in thestrategy that

Lorraine Barrett: Datganaf fuddiant felllywodraethwr ysgol yn Ysgol Gynradd HeolAlbert ym Mhenarth. Ynghylch y datganiadyn y strategaeth bod

‘good health is important for children athome and in school.’

‘iechyd da yn bwysig i blant yn y cartref a’rysgol’.

I was impressed to hear during a governors’meeting last night that Albert Road PrimarySchool provides a fruit tuck shop at breaktime. It is heartening that so many youngchildren eat apples, bananas and oranges.However, there is a cost attached to that interms of staff time. Teaching and non-teaching staff ensure that the fruit is preparedproperly, eaten safely, and that hands arewashed afterwards and fruit skins disposedof. I pay tribute to all the staff that providethat service, because it goes beyond what isrequired in their job description. They do itto benefit the children in their care. Theheadteacher of Meadowlane School, MrTobutt, in St Mellons, for instance, providesfruit and toast for many of his pupils whoturn up in the morning without having eaten.Otherwise, they would have a poor start totheir school day.

Yn ystod cyfarfod o’r llywodraethwyrneithiwr yr oeddwn yn falch o glywed fodYsgol Gynradd Heol Albert yn darparu siopffrwythau yn ystod amser chwarae. Mae’ngalonogol bod cymaint o blant ifanc ynbwyta afalau, bananas ac orennau. Foddbynnag, mae cost ynghlwm wrth hynny o ranamser staff. Mae staff addysgu a rhai nadydynt yn addysgu yn sicrhau y caiff yffrwythau eu paratoi’n gywir, eu bwyta’nddiogel, a bod eu dwylo yn cael eu golchi arôl bwyta ac y gwaredir croen y ffrwythau.Talaf deyrnged i bob aelod o’r staff sydd yndarparu’r gwasanaeth hwnnw, gan ei fod ynmynd y tu hwnt i’r hyn sydd yn ofynnol yneu disgrifiad swydd. Gwnânt hyn er budd yplant yn eu gofal. Mae pennaeth YsgolMeadowlane, Mr Tobutt, yn Llaneirwg, erenghraifft, yn darparu ffrwythau a thost ilawer o’i ddisgyblion sydd yn cyrraedd yrysgol yn y bore heb fwyta. Fel arall, byddentyn cael dechrau gwael i’w diwrnod ysgol.

In connection with that, I welcome thelaunch of the Sure Start programme in myconstituency in St Mellons, Grangetown andButetown. I was privileged to attend thelaunch in St Mellons and it was wonderful towatch these small children eat—some for thefirst time, I suspect—all sorts of fruit andvegetables, including celery and peppers, thathad been prepared by the health visitors andadvisers. The different fruits and vegetableshad been prepared in a colourful andattractive way, in bite-sized pieces, and theirbright colours caught the eye.

Mewn cysylltiad â hynny, croesawaf lansiady rhaglen Cychwyn Cadarn yn fy etholaethyn Llaneirwg, Grangetown a Butetown. Yroedd yn fraint mynychu’r lansiad ynLlaneirwg ac yn wych gweld y plant bachhyn yn bwyta—rhai am y tro cyntaf, fedybiaf—bob math o ffrwythau a llysiau, gangynnwys helogan a phuprau, a baratowyd ganyr ymwelwyr iechyd a’r cynghorwyr.Paratowyd y ffrwythau a’r llysiau gwahanolmewn ffordd liwgar a deniadol, mewn darnaubach, ac yr oedd eu lliwiau llachar yn dal yllygad.

The parents at the launch were alsoenthusiastic. It was clear that they were thereto learn how to encourage their children toeat healthier food. It is important that weconstantly encourage parents to do that, andsend them that message, perhaps even before

Yr oedd y rhieni yn y lansiad yn frwdfrydighefyd. Yr oedd yn amlwg eu bod yno iddysgu sut i annog eu plant i fwyta bwydiachach. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn annogrhieni yn gyson i wneud hynny, ac yn anfon yneges honno atynt, efallai cyn iddynt ddod yn

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they become parents. Kirsty mentioned that itis not merely a matter of being able to buyhealthy food, but of what you do with itwhen you have bought it. I have mentionedtwo schools located at either end of myconstituency, but there are many others, in allour constituencies, that do a great deal topromote healthy eating.

rhieni hyd yn oed. Soniodd Kirsty nad matero allu prynu bwyd iach yn unig yw hyn, ondyr hyn a wnewch gydag ef ar ôl ichi ei brynu.Soniais am ddwy ysgol sydd wedi eu lleoliym mhob pen o’m hetholaeth, ond maellawer o rai eraill, ym mhob un o’nhetholaethau, sydd yn gwneud llawer iawn ihybu bwyta’n iach.

I also welcome the commitment in thestrategy to involve town and communitycouncils in a meaningful way. In myconstituency, Penarth Town Council andLlandough Community Council will workenthusiastically with the Assembly to do allthat they can to improve the health andwellbeing of their communities.

Croesawaf hefyd yr ymrwymiad yn ystrategaeth i gynnwys cynghorau tref achymuned mewn ffordd ystyrlon. Yn fyetholaeth i, bydd Cyngor Tref Penarth aChyngor Cymuned Llandochau yngweithio’n frwdfrydig gyda’r Cynulliad iwneud popeth o fewn eu gallu i wella iechyda lles eu cymunedau.

I was pleased to hear David Melding and DaiLloyd place importance on statistics thatidentify deprivation. Everyone acknowledgesthat poor health is connected to poverty andpoor housing. I am sorry to have to introducea sour note here, but I call on Conservativeand Plaid Cymru Assembly Members tocondemn the Conservative councillors in theVale of Glamorgan Council, who, supportedby Plaid Cymru councillors, will this eveningtry to overturn the recommendation of theLocal Government Boundary Commission tosplit the Alexandra ward in Penarth into twoseparate wards, Plymouth and StAugustine’s, to bring the wards into line withthe town council ward boundaries.

Yr oeddwn yn falch o glywed David Meldinga Dai Lloyd yn rhoi pwys ar ystadegau syddyn nodi amddifadedd. Mae pawb yncydnabod bod iechyd gwael yn gysylltiedig âthlodi a thai gwael. Mae’n ddrwg gennyf amgyflwyno nodyn sur yma, ond galwaf arAelodau o’r blaid Geidwadol a Phlaid Cymruyn y Cynulliad i gondemnio’r cynghorwyrCeidwadol yng Nghyngor Bro Morgannwg, afydd, gyda chefnogaeth cynghorwyr PlaidCymru, yn ceisio gwyrdroi argymhelliad yComisiwn Ffiniau Llywodraeth Leol heno irannu ward Alexandra ym Mhenarth yn ddwyward ar wahân, Plymouth a St Augustine, igysoni’r wardiau â ffiniau ward cyngor ydref.

You may ask what this has to do with healthand wellbeing. [CONSERVATIVE ASSEMBLYMEMBERS: ‘Yes.’] I will tell you. TheAssembly increasingly uses variousdeprivation indices to identify the areas ofgreatest need. We have all discussedcollating data on a level lower than that ofthe unitary authorities in order to betteridentify need. The St Augustine’s part of theAlexandra ward has, for many years, beenunfairly assessed socio-economically becausethe real picture has been blurred by the moreaffluent Plymouth part of the ward. It is agerrymandered ward. It has five electedmembers—Ron Davies knows all about this,and was supportive of the Local GovernmentBoundary Commission’s recommendation. StAugustine’s is the old docks end of the town,

Efallai y gofynnwch beth sydd a wnelo hyn âiechyd a lles. [AELODAU CEIDWADOL O’RCYNULLIAD: ‘Ie.’] Fe ddywedaf wrthych.Mae’r Cynulliad yn gynyddol yn defnyddiomynegeion amddifadedd amrywiol i nodi’rardaloedd â’r angen mwyaf. Mae pob unohonom wedi trafod coladu data ar lefel isna’r awdurdodau unedol er mwyn nodi angenyn well. Cafodd rhan St Augustine yn wardAlexandra, ers llawer o flynyddoedd, eihasesu’n annheg yn gymdeithasoleconomaidd gan fod y darlun gwirioneddolwedi ei bylu gan ran fwy cefnog Plymouth yward. Mae’n ward a gyffin-dwyllwyd. Maeganddi bum aelod etholedig—gwyr RonDavies bopeth am hyn, a bu’n gefnogol oargymhelliad y Comisiwn FfiniauLlywodraeth Leol. Mae St Augustine yn y

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where I have lived for 30 years. In order toenable us to identify the needs of those livingin that area and to obtain proper and accuratedata, I urge the Conservatives on the Vale ofGlamorgan Council to stop trying todesperately hold on to one more seat.

rhan o’r dref lle yr oedd yr hen ddociau, a lley bûm yn byw am 30 mlynedd. Er mwyn eingalluogi i nodi anghenion y rheini sydd ynbyw yn yr ardal honno a chael data priodol achywir, anogaf y Ceidwadwyr ar Gyngor BroMorgannwg i roi’r gorau i geisio dal ymlaenyn ffyrnig i un sedd ychwanegol.

David Davies rose— David Davies a gododd—

Lorraine Barrett: I will not give way. Lorraine Barrett: Ni wnaf ildio.

David Davies: Point of order. Will you rule,Deputy Presiding Officer, on how thisconcerns health, particularly given ourlimited time to discuss this issue?

David Davies: Pwynt o drefn. A wnewch chiddyfarnu, Ddirprwy Lywydd, beth sydd awnelo hyn â iechyd, yn arbennig o gofio’ramser cyfyngedig sydd gennym i drafod ymater hwn?

The Deputy Presiding Officer: I thank youfor your help, David. I was listeningcarefully, and while Lorraine was strayingtowards the margins of the subject, I have notheard anything so far that could be classed asbeing out of order. However, I ask Lorraineto return to the substance of the debate.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Diolch ichi am eichhelp, David. Yr oeddwn yn gwrando’n astud,ac er bod Lorraine yn crwydro tuag atymylon y pwnc, ni chlywais unrhyw beth etoy gellid ei ystyried allan o drefn. Foddbynnag, gofynnaf i Lorraine ddychwelyd atsylwedd y ddadl.

Lorraine Barrett: I will just finish my lastpoint. The people of the St Augustine’s area,particularly the children, deserve the bestchance possible to access funds to improvetheir health and wellbeing. It is all down togetting the right data to take this strategyforward so that it and all the money that itwill involve is targeted at those in greatestneed.

Lorraine Barrett: Gorffennaf fy mhwyntolaf. Mae pobl ardal St Augustine, ynarbennig y plant, yn haeddu’r cyfle gorauposibl i gael yr hawl i arian er mwyn gwellaeu hiechyd a’u lles. Mae’n dibynnu ar gael ydata cywir i ddatblygu’r strategaeth hon fel ybydd y data a’r holl arian a fydd yngysylltiedig â hyn wedi eu targedu at y rheinisydd â’r angen mwyaf.

Alun Cairns: The foundation of any healthimprovement plan should be people’s eatinghabits. It is a concern that health is worse ineconomically deprived areas with highunemployment and high rates of economicinactivity. However, it is ironic that theeating habits of many people in those areasare not what we would like, in terms of theconsumption of fresh fruit, vegetables andproduce. It is especially ironic given thatfresh food is often cheaper than ready-mademeals. Education has a part to play inchanging eating habits, as the documentrecognises, but cultural change is a long-termaim. In terms of the role that education canplay, David Melding has reliably informedme that cookery classes are now called home

Alun Cairns: Dylai arferion bwyta pobl fodyn sail i unrhyw gynllun gwella iechyd.Mae’n bryder bod iechyd yn waeth mewnardaloedd economaidd-ddifreintiedig gydadiweithdra uchel a chyfraddau uchel oanweithgarwch economaidd. Fodd bynnag,mae’n eironig nad yw arferion bwyta llawero bobl yn yr ardaloedd hynny yr hyn yrhoffem iddynt fod, o ran bwyta ffrwythau,llysiau a chynnyrch ffres. Mae’n arbennig oeironig o gofio bod bwyd ffres yn aml ynrhatach na phrydau parod. Mae gan addysgran i’w chwarae wrth newid arferion bwytafel y cydnebydd y ddogfen, ond mae newiddiwylliannol yn amcan tymor hir. Ynnhermau’r rôl y gall addysg ei chwarae, maeDavid Melding wedi fy hysbysu’n sicr y

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economics classes. I confess that I opted totake cookery rather than metalwork when Iwas at school. I trust that my wife is notlistening to this, otherwise I will be in frontof the stove this evening. My point is thatcookery programmes are popular ontelevision and chefs are fashionable. JamieOliver is an obvious example of a chef whocan use fresh produce in imaginative waysthat appeal to people in all sectors of society.However, we must target those who eatready-made meals, who tend to be—and thismay be a generalisation—from economicallydeprived areas.

gelwir dosbarthiadau coginio bellach ynddosbarthiadau economeg y cartref. Cyffesaffy mod wedi dewis coginio yn hytrach nagwaith metel pan oeddwn yn yr ysgol.Hyderaf nad yw fy ngwraig yn gwrando arhyn, neu byddaf o flaen y popty heno. Ypwynt yr wyf am ei wneud yw bod rhaglennicoginio’n boblogaidd ar y teledu achogyddion yn ffasiynol. Mae Jamie Oliveryn enghraifft amlwg o gogydd sydd yn galludefnyddio cynnyrch ffres mewn ffyrddcreadigol sydd yn apelio at bobl ym mhobsector o gymdeithas. Fodd bynnag, rhaid innidargedu’r rheini sydd yn bwyta prydauparod, sydd yn tueddu i ddod—achyffredinoli yw hyn efallai—o ardaloeddeconomaidd-ddifreintiedig.

I make a brief representation on prostatecancer screening. Large sums of money arespent on well women clinics, and rightly so.However, I recently asked the Minister forHealth and Social Services in Plenary whatplans she had to introduce prostate screeningfor men in a similar way to the cancerscreening initiatives for women.Unfortunately, we did not get to the bottomof that. I ask the Minister to return to thatissue because large sums of money are spenton well women clinics. That is right, but weshould also consider how we can improve thecondition of men, particularly as theincidence of prostate cancer is rising sodramatically.

Gwnaf sylw byr ar sgrinio ar gyfer canser ybrostad. Caiff symiau mawr o arian eugwario ar glinigau’r ferch iach, ac maehynny’n iawn. Fodd bynnag, yn ddiweddargofynnais i’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd aGwasanaethau Cymdeithasol mewn CyfarfodLlawn pa gynlluniau a oedd ganddi igyflwyno sgrinio prostrad i ddynion mewnffordd debyg i’r mentrau sgrinio canser iferched. Yn anffodus, ni thrafodwyd hynny’nfanwl. Gofynnaf i’r Gweinidog ddychwelydat y mater hwnnw gan fod symiau mawr oarian yn cael eu gwario ar glinigau’r ferchiach. Mae hynny’n iawn, ond dylem ystyriedhefyd sut y gallwn wella’r afiechyd ymhlithdynion, yn arbennig gan fod y nifer sydd yndioddef o ganser y brostrad yn cynyddu morddramatig.

Lynne Neagle: I thank Jane for bringing thisstrategy before the Assembly today. Healthpromotion is a key part of our wider healthagenda and it is right that it is given priorityin a Plenary debate. I have argued inCommittee that promoting health andwellbeing by changing lifestyles is anelement in tackling health inequality.However, long-term strategies for promotinghealthier living are redundant in thecommunities that I represent if they are notbacked by quality, universal services forthose suffering ill-health now. There is aninverse care law that means that those withthe worst health are often those with thelowest level of health care. I am sure that the

Lynne Neagle: Diolchaf i Jane amgyflwyno’r strategaeth ger bron y Cynulliadheddiw. Mae hybu iechyd yn rhan allweddolo’n hagenda iechyd ehangach ac mae’n iawnrhoi’r flaenoriaeth iddo mewn dadl mewnCyfarfod Llawn. Yr wyf wedi dadlau yn yPwyllgor fod hybu iechyd a lles drwy newidffordd o fyw yn elfen wrth fynd i’r afael aganghydraddoldeb iechyd. Fodd bynnag, maestrategaethau tymor hir ar gyfer hybu byw ynfwy iach yn ddiddefnydd yn y cymunedau agynrychiolaf os na chânt eu hategu ganwasanaethau cyffredinol o ansawdd i’r rheinisydd yn dioddef o salwch ar hyn o bryd. Ceirdeddf gofal wrthdro a olyga mai’r rheini â’riechyd gwaethaf yn aml yw’r rheini sydd â’r

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allocation of record levels of resources to theNHS and the creation of the health inequalityfund will help to address this. I look forwardto the results of the NHS allocations formulareview in the hope that that will lead to arobust formula that gives resources to theareas of greatest need. We must tackle healthinequality and ill-health in our poorestcommunities through this strategy.

lefel isaf o ofal iechyd. Yr wyf yn siwr ybydd dyrannu adnoddau i’r NHS, ar y lefelfwyaf erioed, a chreu cronfaanghydraddoldeb iechyd yn helpu i ymdrin âhyn. Edrychaf ymlaen at ganlyniadau’radolygiad o fformwla dyraniadau’r NHS yn ygobaith y bydd yn arwain at fformwla gadarnsydd yn rhoi adnoddau i’r ardaloedd â’rangen mwyaf. Rhaid inni fynd i’r afael aganghydraddoldeb iechyd a salwch yn eincymunedau tlotaf drwy gyfrwng y strategaethhon.

In focusing on health inequalities, we need totake the multi-agency approach highlightedin the strategy. However, we must bite thebullet in another respect and target ourefforts and resources on the areas of greatestneed. A universal, ‘please-all’ approach isnot the answer to promoting health andwellbeing when those with the worst healthare to be found in identifiable communitiesthat need the greatest investment. Our firstpriority should be to tackle ill-health where itis greatest. That must mean targeting ourresources and our efforts on the mostdeprived communities, often in the southWales valleys, as well as supporting othercommunities that were ranked highest on theindex of multiple deprivation. We must dothis because it is in these communities thatthe rates of teenage pregnancies are highest,economic inactivity due to ill-health ishighest and life expectancy is much lowerthan the average for Wales. That is theultimate form of social exclusion. In Torfaen,and in other south Wales valleys, the rate ofmortality due to circulatory disease and therate of infant mortality are among thehighest, and we have one of the highestlevels of limiting long-term illness.

Wrth ganolbwyntio ar anghydraddoldebauiechyd, mae angen inni fabwysiadu’rymagwedd aml-asiantaeth a amlygir yn ystrategaeth. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni ddal ynôl mewn ystyr arall a thargedu einhymdrechion a’n hadnoddau ar yr ardaloeddsydd â’r angen mwyaf. Nid ymagweddgyffredinol, ‘plesio pawb’ yw’r ateb i hybuiechyd a lles pan welir bod y rheini sydd â’riechyd gwaethaf mewn cymunedau aadnabyddir y mae angen y buddsoddiadmwyaf arnynt. Ein blaenoriaeth gyntaf fyddmynd i’r afael â salwch yn y mannau lle ymae ar ei waethaf. Rhaid i hynny olygutargedu ein hadnoddau a’n hymdrechion ar ycymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig, yn aml yngnghymoedd de Cymru, yn ogystal â chefnogicymunedau eraill a osodwyd uchaf ar ymynegai amddifadedd lluosog. Rhaid inniwneud hyn gan mai yn y cymunedau hynny ymae’r gyfradd uchaf o ferched sydd ynbeichiogi yn eu harddegau, y gyfradd uchaf oanweithgarwch economaidd oherwyddsalwch a lle mae disgwyliad einioes ynllawer is na’r cyfartaledd ar gyfer Cymru.Dyna’r ffurf waethaf ar allgáu cymdeithasol.Yn Nhor-faen, ac mewn cymoedd eraill yn neCymru, mae’r gyfradd farwolaeth oganlyniad i afiechyd cylchrediad y gwaed a’rgyfradd farwolaeth mewn babanod ymhlithyr uchaf, ac mae gennym un o’r lefelau uchafo salwch tymor hir cyfyngol.

11:45 a.m.

The UK Government and the Government ofWales are making progress in tackling theseproblems, but we still face chronic ill-health.We are well-placed to deal with these issues,and we must recognise where we can tie thisstrategy into our work on Communities First

Mae Llywodraeth y DU a LlywodraethCymru yn gwneud cynnydd wrth fynd i’rafael â’r problemau hyn, ond wynebwnafiechyd cronig o hyd. Yr ydym mewnsefyllfa dda i ddelio â’r materion hyn, a rhaidinni gydnabod lle y gallwn gysylltu’r

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and Objective 1. It is essential thatCommunities First is tied into the healthpromotion and improvement agenda and thatwe avoid the temptation succumbed to in pastpublic policy to compartmentalise health andsegregate it from issues such as housing, theenvironment, employment and communityregeneration.

strategaeth hon â’n gwaith ar RoiCymunedau’n Gyntaf ac Amcan 1. Mae’nhanfodol bod Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntafwedi ei gysylltu â’r agenda hybu a gwellaiechyd a’n bod yn osgoi’r temtasiwn yrildiwyd iddo mewn polisi cyhoeddus yn ygorffennol i adrannu iechyd a’i wahanu oddiwrth faterion fel tai, yr amgylchedd,cyflogaeth ac adfywio cymunedau.

Therefore, while welcoming the publicationof this strategy and the work outlined in it, Iargue that two factors must still beconsidered. First, we must ensure a focus onthe delivery of quality health services in ourdeprived communities, to deliver the healthimprovements needed now, as well as settinglong-term targets. Secondly, to have agenuine impact on the scale of the problemswe face, we need to target our efforts andresources on the areas of greatest need.

Felly, tra’n croesawu cyhoeddi’r strategaethhon a’r gwaith a amlinellir ynddi, dadleuaffod yn rhaid ystyried y ddau ffactor o hyd.Yn gyntaf, rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yncanolbwyntio ar gyflwyno gwasanaethauiechyd o ansawdd yn ein cymunedaudifreintiedig, cyflwyno’r gwelliannau iechydsydd eu hangen yn awr, yn ogystal â phennutargedau tymor hir. Yn ail, er mwyn caeleffaith go iawn ar raddfa’r problemau awynebwn, rhaid inni dargedu einhymdrechion a’n hadnoddau ar yr ardaloeddâ’r angen mwyaf.

Brian Hancock: I declare an interest as thehusband of a community midwife.

Brian Hancock: Datganaf fuddiant fel gwrbydwraig gymunedol.

As a new member of the Health and SocialServices Committee, my interest in healthhas increased further. The health of myfamily, my constituents and the people ofWales is important to me.

Fel aelod newydd o’r Pwyllgor Iechyd aGwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, mae fyniddordeb mewn iechyd wedi cynyddu ragor.Mae iechyd fy nheulu, fy etholwyr a phoblCymru yn bwysig imi.

Midwifery is important and is, naturally, myfirst subject. In their work with mothers andbabies—fathers are not forgotten—midwivespromote and advise on health, growth,nutrition, breastfeeding and birth control.Midwives are often forgotten in our healthservice, but they are an essential part of it,because they help to support the mother andbaby for nine or 10 months. We mustcontinue to support them because they ensurethat new babies are given a healthy start inlife.

Mae bydwreigiaeth yn bwysig ac, ynnaturiol, dyma fy mhwnc cyntaf. Yn eugwaith gyda mamau a babanod—nid anghofiram y tadau—mae bydwragedd yn hybu ac ynrhoi cyngor ar iechyd, tyfiant, maeth, bwydoo’r fron a dulliau atal cenhedlu. Yn amlanghofir am fydwragedd yn ein gwasanaethiechyd, ond maent yn rhan hanfodol ohono,gan eu bod yn ceisio helpu i gefnogi’r fama’r babi am naw neu 10 mis. Rhaid innibarhau i’w cefnogi oherwydd sicrhant y caiffbabanod newydd ddechrau iach mewnbywyd.

I now move on to an issue that has alwaysbeen of concern to me. Some 25 to 30 yearsago, doctors were imported into this countrybecause there were not enough of them in theValleys. Those doctors are now beginning toretire and we are faced with the same

Symudaf ymlaen at fater a fu o bryder imierioed. Tua 25 i 30 mlynedd yn ôl,mewnforiwyd meddygon i’r wlad hon gannad oedd digon ohonynt yn y Cymoedd.Bellach mae’r meddygon hynny’n dechrauymddeol a wynebwn yr un broblem. Ni

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problem. We have, perhaps, not learntanything during those years. We have nottrained enough doctors, nurses, healthvisitors and, of course, midwives. These areimportant professionals whom we need tosupport and care for our health and wellbeingin the future.

ddysgasom, efallai, unrhyw beth yn ystod yblynyddoedd hynny. Nid ydym wedihyfforddi digon o feddygon, nyrsys,ymwelwyr iechyd, ac wrth gwrs,bydwragedd. Mae’r rhain yn boblbroffesiynol y mae angen inni roi cymorth agofal iddynt er mwyn ein hiechyd a’n lles yny dyfodol.

I will move on quickly to mental healthstrategies, as I am aware of the lack of time.One in six adults suffer from mental healthproblems, ranging from depression toschizophrenia. I attended a presentation byMencap this week, where I learnt about thevoluntary help available to those who carefor people with mental health problems andphysical disabilities. We must remember thatthose sufferers are human beings. Thatcomes before the fact that they have a healthproblem or disability. I learnt that respitecare is important to carers and benefitspatients and families. Unfortunately, there isa waiting list of many weeks, even months, insome cases. Older carers, caring for ageingsons and daughters are concerned about whatwill happen to their children when theybecome too old to care for them. We shouldrecognise that problem. Young carers areamazing; I do not know how they do it. Theycare for their ill parents and yet still manageto continue with their lives and education.‘Amazing’ is the only word that I can use todescribe them.

Symudaf ymlaen yn gyflym yn awr atstrategaethau iechyd meddwl, gan fy mod ynymwybodol bod amser yn brin. Mae un o bobchwe oedolyn yn dioddef o broblemau iechydmeddwl, yn amrywio o iselder ysbryd isgitsoffrenia. Mynychais gyflwyniad ganMencap yr wythnos hon, lle y dysgais am ycymorth gwirfoddol sydd ar gael i’r rheinisydd yn gofalu am bobl â phroblemau iechydmeddwl ac anableddau corfforol. Rhaid innigofio mai bodau dynol yw’r dioddefwyrhynny. Daw hynny o flaen y ffaith bodganddynt broblem iechyd neu anabledd.Dysgais fod gofal ysbaid yn bwysig igynhalwyr ac yn fuddiol i gleifion a’uteuluoedd. Yn anffodus, mae rhestr aros osawl wythnos, fisoedd hyd yn oed, mewnrhai achosion. Mae cynhalwyr hyn, sydd yngofalu am feibion a merched sydd ynheneiddio, yn pryderu ynghylch yr hyn afydd yn digwydd i’w plant pan fyddant ynrhy hen i ofalu amdanynt. Dylem gydnabod ybroblem honno. Mae cynhalwyr ifanc ynrhyfeddol; ni wn sut y gwnânt y gwaith.Gofalant am eu rhieni sydd yn sâl ac etollwyddant i barhau â’u bywydau a’u haddysg.‘Rhyfeddol’ yw’r unig air y gallaf eiddefnyddio i’w disgrifio.

I draw Members’ attention to a scheme inBlackwood in my constituency, calledCrossroads. This organisation provides carefor carers. It is a group where people lookafter each other so that they can continuetheir voluntary caring work. I am alsoconcerned about the future of people whohave been institutionalised for a long timedue to their physical and mental disabilities. Iam concerned that Llanfrechfa GrangeHospital in the greater Gwent area has movedpeople into the community. There should besupport for them in the community. I am alsoconcerned that some, due to severedisabilities, have been moved to the edge of

Tynnaf sylw’r Aelodau at gynllun yn y CoedDuon yn fy etholaeth, o’r enw Crossroads.Mae’r sefydliad hwn yn darparu gofal igynhalwyr. Mae’n grwp lle mae pobl yngofalu am ei gilydd fel y gallant barhau â’ugwaith gofal gwirfoddol. Yr wyf hefyd ynpryderu am ddyfodol pobl a fu mewn cartrefiam amser hir oherwydd eu hanableddaucorfforol a meddyliol. Yr wyf yn pryderu bodYsbyty Llanfrechfa Grange yn ardal Gwentwedi symud pobl i mewn i’r gymuned. Dylaifod cefnogaeth ar gael iddynt yn y gymuned.Yr wyf hefyd yn pryderu bod rhai, oherwyddanableddau difrifol, wedi cael eu symud igyrion tir yr ysbyty, ac felly nid ydynt yn yr

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the hospital grounds, neither in the hospitalnor in the community. How will these peoplebe supported? I am worried, as are theirparents, that care will not be available tothem.

ysbyty nac yn y gymuned. Sut y cefnogir ybobl hynny? Yr wyf yn pryderu, fel y mae eurhieni, na fydd y gofal hwnnw ar gael iddynt.

When resources are scarce there is often atendency for mental health services toprovide a ‘psychosis only’ service andconcentrate on treatment rather than onprevention. We should develop and traincounsellors and psychotherapists, who mustbe involved in primary care. Their role mustbe expanded. In my constituency there is aservice linked with a split GP practice, whichis progressing well. In nearby Ystrad Mynachthe system is regarded so highly that the localhealth group is concerned that, becauseeverybody wants to use the service, costs willincrease and, as a result, no-one will benefit.

Pan fydd adnoddau yn brin mae tueddiad ynaml i wasanaethau iechyd meddwl ddarparugwasanaeth ‘seicosis yn unig’ achanolbwyntio ar driniaeth yn hytrach nag aratal yr afiechyd. Dylem ddatblygu ahyfforddi cynghorwyr a seicotherapyddion, ymae’n rhaid eu cynnwys mewn gofalsylfaenol. Rhaid ymestyn eu rôl. Yn fyetholaeth i mae gwasanaeth sydd yngysylltiedig â phractis meddygon teulurhanedig, sydd yn datblygu’n dda. Yn YstradMynach gerllaw ceir ystyriaeth mor uchel o’rsystem fel bod y grwp iechyd lleol yngofidio, gan fod pawb am ddefnyddio’rgwasanaeth, y bydd costau yn cynyddu ac, oganlyniad, ni fydd neb yn elwa arno.

I move on to health and wellbeing in schooleducation. Other Members have talked aboutthe importance of developing young people’sawareness of nutrition, sexual health, and thedangers of drug and substance misuse.Physical education should be encouraged andnot squeezed out of the curriculum. As aresult of my interest in athletics, I havelearned that osteoporosis in women isbecoming, not a disease of the middle aged,but of those in their 20s. Two things can helpprevent osteoporosis, which is a reduction inbone density: that is, exercise and milk forpubescent children. We should look topromoting that.

Symudaf ymlaen at iechyd a lles mewnaddysg ysgol. Soniodd Aelodau eraill ambwysigrwydd datblygu ymwybyddiaeth poblifanc o faeth, iechyd rhywiol, a pherygloncamddefnyddio cyffuriau a sylweddau. Dylidannog addysg gorfforol ac ni ddylid ei wthioallan o’r cwricwlwm. O ganlyniad i’mdiddordeb mewn athletau, yr wyf wedi dysgubod osteoporosis ymhlith merched yndatblygu yn afiechyd sydd yn taro’r rheiniyng nghanol eu hugeiniau, ac nid y rhai canoloed. Gall dau beth helpu i osgoiosteoporosis, sydd yn lleihad yn nhrwch yresgyrn; hynny yw, ymarfer corff a llaeth ibobl ifanc yn eu harddegau. Dylem ystyriedhybu hynny.

We talked about sexual education, which isimportant in schools and we have heard ofthe increase in teenage pregnancies. We musthelp our young people to have more self-esteem and esteem for others. Nutrition isalso important. Being a little older than somehere, I call for a return to home economics sothat we can learn about healthy food and howto prepare it quickly and conveniently. Icommend amendment 1 to Members andrecommend that they support it.

Siaradasom am addysg rhyw, sydd yn bwysigmewn ysgolion a chlywsom am y cynnydd ynnifer y merched yn eu harddegau sydd ynbeichiogi. Rhaid inni helpu ein pobl ifanc igael mwy o hunan-barch a pharch tuag ateraill. Mae maeth yn bwysig hefyd. Aminnau ychydig yn hyn na rhai yma, galwafam ddychwelyd i economeg y cartref, fel ygallwn ddysgu am fwyd iach a sut i’w baratoiyn gyflym ac yn hwylus. Cymeradwyafwelliant 1 i’r Aelodau ac argymhellaf eu bodyn ei gefnogi.

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The Deputy Presiding Officer: We havetwo more speakers before I call the Ministerto wind up. I would be grateful if they wouldlimit their contributions to three minuteseach.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Mae gennym ddausiaradwr arall cyn imi alw ar y Gweinidog igloi. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe baent yncyfyngu eu cyfraniadau i dair munud yr un.

Rosemary Butler: This picks up on DavidDavies’s point on school playing fields inWales. The situation in Wales is different tothat in England. When I was the Secretary forEducation and Children, I only received onerequest to change the use of a playing field.In Wales, every time an education authorityasks for the use of a playing field to bechanged, the matter is referred to the SportsCouncil for Wales. David will be pleased tolearn that the sub-committee that wasestablished to examine sport in schools will,hopefully, report within the next month or so.Jane Davidson will then bring forward itsrecommendations.

Rosemary Butler: Mae hyn yn ailafael âphwynt David Davies ar feysydd chwaraemewn ysgolion yng Nghymru. Mae’r sefyllfayng Nghymru yn wahanol i’r un yn Lloegr.Pan oeddwn yn Ysgrifennydd dros Addysg aPhlant, dim ond un cais a gefais i newiddefnydd maes chwarae. Yng Nghymru, bobtro y bydd awdurdod addysg yn gofyn amnewid defnydd maes chwarae, cyfeirir ymater at Gyngor Chwaraeon Cymru. ByddDavid yn falch o glywed y bydd yr is-bwyllgor a sefydlwyd i archwilio chwaraeonmewn ysgolion, yn cyflwyno adroddiad,gobeithio, yn y mis neu ddau nesaf. Ynabydd Jane Davidson yn dwyn eiargymhellion gerbron.

Peter Law: This strategy is vital to help tochange the face of our communities. As theMinister said, everybody has a part to play inthis. I welcome it and the all-party supportfor it. I have no problem with supporting theamendments that have been proposed by theother parties. I particularly welcome theConservative amendments, amendments 2and 3, which is remarkable to say the least,bearing in mind the difficulties that mycommunity suffered under previousConservative Governments. Perhaps they arepurging themselves today of the guiltresulting from those days. It says a great dealabout David Melding that he proposed thoseamendments. I thank him for that.

Peter Law: Mae’r stratgaeth hon yn hollbwysig er mwyn helpu i newid wyneb eincymunedau. Fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog,mae gan bawb ran i’w chwarae yn hyn. Fe’icroesawaf a chefnogaeth pob plaid iddo. Nidoes gennyf unrhyw broblem gyda chefnogi’rgwelliannau a gynigiwyd gan y pleidiaueraill. Croesawaf yn arbennig welliannau’rCeidwadwyr, gwelliannau 2 a 3, sydd ynrhyfeddol a dweud y lleiaf, o gofio’ranawsterau a ddioddefodd fy nghymuned odan y Llywodraethau Ceidwadol blaenorol.Efallai eu bod yn ceisio cael gwared â’reuogrwydd heddiw a ddeilliodd o’r dyddiauhynny. Mae’n dweud llawer iawn am DavidMelding ei fod wedi cynnig y gwelliannauhynny. Diolchaf iddo am hynny.

It was interesting to hear about ‘Woodbine’Davies’s formative years, which were spenthaving a quick fag behind the toilets. Hisnicotine deprivation is probably what resultsin the antics that we have to suffer in thisChamber.

Yr oedd yn ddiddorol clywed amflynyddoedd ffurfiannol ‘Woodbine’ Davies,a dreuliwyd yn ysmygu sigarét yn gyflym ytu ôl i’r toiledau. Mae’n siwr mai am ei fodwedi ei amddifadu o nicotîn y mae’n rhaidinni ddioddef ei ystumiau yn y Siambr hon.

The First Minister: We could put a nicotinepatch over his mouth.

Prif Weinidog Cymru: Gallem roi clwtnicotîn dros ei geg.

11:55 a.m.

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Peter Law: I hope so. Could you arrangethat?

Peter Law: Gobeithio. A allech chi drefnuhynny?

Social and economic wellbeing is importantand it concerns us all in this Chamber. Fromeconomic prosperity comes all else. If you donot have it, you have a problem. If you arepoor, you suffer; you suffer from poor healthand poor nutrition, from lack of opportunityand access to facilities, from exclusion—

Mae lles cymdeithasol ac economaidd ynbwysig ac yn destun gofid pob un ohonom yny Siambr hon. O ffyniant economaidd y dawpopeth arall. Os nad yw hyn gennych, maegennych broblem. Os ydych yn dlawd,byddwch yn dioddef; dioddefwch o iechydgwael a maeth gwael, o ddiffyg cyfle amynediad i gyfleusterau, o allgáu—

Alun Cairns rose— Alun Cairns a gododd—

Peter Law: I cannot take any interventions; Ionly have four minutes, and people fromBlaenau Gwent are more important. SorryAlun, I will talk to you later.

Peter Law: Ni allaf gymryd unrhywymyriadau; dim ond pedair munud syddgennyf, ac mae pobl o Flaenau Gwent ynbwysicach. Mae’n ddrwg gennyf Alun,siaradaf â chi ar y diwedd.

Lack of confidence and low self-esteem areproblems faced by so many communities inWales now. There is GDP per capita—asPhil Williams has mentioned many times—of64 per cent of the EU average. There is 12per cent unemployment in Blaenau Gwent,which also has the second highest mortalityrate in the whole of Wales. The ill-health of46 per cent of the population interferes withtheir social activities. The ill-health of 23 percent of adults limits their walking to 100yards. It has the highest low-birth weight inWales and the highest figures of incomesupport. Twenty eight per cent of thepopulation have a respiratory illness, and 21per cent have long-term illnesses; the highestlevel of decayed teeth in children of fiveyears and under; the least child day-careplaces; the highest level of under-18conceptions—

Diffyg hyder a hunan-barch isel yw’rproblemau a wynebir gan gynifer ogymunedau yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd. Maecynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth y pen—fel ysoniodd Phil Williams lawer gwaith—o 64 ycant o gyfartaledd yr UE. Mae diweithdra o12 y cant ym Mlaenau Gwent, sydd â’r ailgyfradd farwolaeth uchaf yng Nghymrugyfan hefyd. Mae salwch 46 y cant o’rboblogaeth yn ymyrryd â’u gweithgareddaucymdeithasol. Mae salwch 23 y cant ooedolion yn cyfyngu eu cerdded i ganllath.Mae ganddi’r pwysau geni isaf yng Nghymrua’r ffigurau uchaf o gymhorthdal incwm.Mae gan 28 y cant o’r boblogaeth salwchanadlol, ac mae gan 21 y cant salwch tymorhir; y lefel uchaf o ddannedd pydredigymhlith plant o dan bump oed a iau; y niferlleiaf o leoedd gofal dydd i blant; y lefeluchaf o feichiogi ymhlith merched o dan 18oed—

Peter Rogers rose— Peter Rogers a gododd—Peter Law: I am not taking interventions. Ihave no time, sorry.

Peter Law: Nid wyf yn cymryd ymyriadau.Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, nid oes amser gennyf.

We share the dubious honour of the highestheart disease rate with Merthyr Tydfil andRhymney, and five years less life expectancythan in an adjoining county.

Rhannwn yr anrhydedd amheus â MerthyrTudful a Rhymni o fod â’r gyfradd uchaf oran clefyd y galon, a phum mlynedd yn llai oddisgwyliad einioes na sir gyfagos.

Take all those together and add a few factors,such as 50 per cent of children in most

Ystyriwch y rhain gyda’i gilydd acychwanegwch ychydig o ffactorau, fel 50 y

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schools receiving free meals, and high ratesof statemented children and special needschildren. Indeed, if the Minister forEducation had had to make a statement onBlaenau Gwent this morning it would havebeen the reverse of what you heard aboutPowys.

cant o blant yn y rhan fwyaf o ysgolion yncael prydau am ddim, a chyfraddau uchel oblant â datganiad a phlant ag anghenionarbennig. Yn wir, pe bai’r Gweinidog drosAddysg wedi gorfod gwneud datganiad arFlaenau Gwent y bore yma byddai wedi bodyn groes i’r hyn a glywsoch am Bowys.

That is deprivation and social exclusion, andthat is Blaenau Gwent. It is 40 miles awayfrom the front door of the Assembly, and it isnot unique. There are other areas with thesetypes of problems, but perhaps not asconcentrated. Here is our problem: to make adifference to the future of the people ofWales generally, and to these sociallyexcluded areas in particular. The people ofmy constituency want a place under the sunbecause the people of Blaenau Gwent havebeen in the shadows for far too long. That iswhy the strategy must work; it must make adifference for these people.

Dyna amddifadedd ac allgáu cymdeithasol, adyna Flaenau Gwent. Mae 40 milltir i ffwrddo’r Cynulliad, ac nid yw’n unigryw. Maeardaloedd eraill â’r mathau hyn o broblemau,ond efallai nid mor grynodedig. Dyma ywein problem: gwneud gwahaniaeth i ddyfodolpobl Cymru yn gyffredinol, ac yn arbennig,i’r ardaloedd hyn sydd wedi eu hallgáu yngymdeithasol. Mae pobl yn fy etholaetheisiau bod yng ngolau’r haul gan fod poblBlaenau Gwent wedi bod yn y cysgodion ersgormod o amser o lawer. Dyna pam bod ynrhaid i’r strategaeth weithio; rhaid iddiwneud gwahaniaeth i’r bobl hyn.

I welcome the reference to schools,employers, the voluntary sector, localgovernment and health bodies all workingtogether with the one aim of improving thehealth of the community. Young peoplesmoking is a major concern in schools. It isimperative that we do something about theseyoung people drowning in smoke. We willfight it with a strategy like this.

Croesawaf y cyfeiriad at ysgolion,cyflogwyr, y sector gwirfoddol, llywodraethleol a chyrff iechyd i gyd yn gweithio gyda’igilydd gyda’r un nod o wella iechyd ygymuned. Mae pobl ifanc yn ysmygu ynachos pryder mawr mewn ysgolion. Mae’nhanfodol ein bod yn gwneud rhywbeth am ybobl ifanc hyn sydd yn boddi mewn mwg.Byddwn yn ei ymladd gyda strategaeth felhyn.

We also need to ensure that we tackle fitnesslevels, obesity, and sexual and mental health,which is all covered here also. It is vitallyimportant. It all goes towards getting socialjustice in communities that have not had itfor some time. I must support Lynne Neaglewhen she says that we need fairer funding totackle these problems. A fairer fundingformula must be weighted to distributeresources towards those socially excludedareas.

Mae angen inni sicrhau hefyd ein bod ynmynd i’r afael â lefelau ffitrwydd, tewdra, aciechyd rhywiol a meddwl, ac mae’r cyfanwedi ei gwmpasu yma hefyd. Mae’n hollbwysig. Â’r cyfan tuag at sicrhau cyfiawndercymdeithasol mewn cymunedau nad ydyntwedi ei gael ers peth amser. Rhaid imigefnogi Lynne Neagle pan ddywed fod angenarian tecach arnom i fynd i’r afael â’rproblemau hyn. Rhaid pwyso a mesurfformwla ariannu tecach i ddosbarthuadnoddau i’r ardaloedd hynny sydd wedi euhallgáu yn gymdeithasol.

When you have the lowest number ofhospital beds per 1000 in Wales, as we havein Gwent, something needs to be looked at. Itis important that we support our healthalliances, Sure Start, Communities First and

Pan fydd gennych y lefel isaf o welyau mewnysbytai fesul 1000 yng Nghymru, fel syddgennym yng Ngwent, mae angen edrych arrywbeth. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cefnogiein cynghreiriau iechyd, Cychwyn Cadarn,

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the new opportunities fund, because with thisstrategy, and with all those people workingtogether we can change things and get ourcommunities active. We can ensure thatfollowing generations get the future that theAssembly wants them to have. That is why Iam delighted to support this strategy today.

Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf a’r gronfacyfleoedd newydd, oherwydd gyda’rstrategaeth hon, a’r holl bobl hynny yngweithio gyda’i gilydd, gallwn newid pethauac ysgogi ein cymunedau. Gallwn sicrhaubod cenedlaethau i ddod yn cael y dyfodol ymae’r Cynulliad am iddynt ei gael. Dynapam y mae’n bleser gennyf gefnogi’rstrategaeth hon heddiw.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: You werenot on my list for speaking, John Griffiths,but I will give you one minute.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Nid oeddech ar fyrhestr i siarad, John Griffiths, ond cewchfunud gennyf.

John Griffiths: Thank you. I should havebeen; I will discuss it with you later.

John Griffiths: Diolch ichi. Dylwn fod wedibod; fe drafodaf hynny â chi ynddiweddarach.

We have a simple, basic and effectivemessage to give on health promotion and wehave been telling it. We hear all the time thatwe need to exercise more, eat a low-fat, high-fibre diet, eat more fruit and vegetables, cutdown on alcohol and preferably not smoke atall. It is a straightforward message, whichmany people have understood. The problemis that the media in general often confusepeople by coming out with all sorts oftheories as to how people could have healthylifestyles. People find it confusing—themessages are often conflicting—and saythings such as, ‘well if you listened to whatthey tell you, you would not eat anything atall’. Our basic message must cut across that,and I think that it does.

Mae gennym neges syml, sylfaenol aceffeithiol i’w rhoi ar hybu iechyd a buom ynei rhoi. Clywn drwy’r amser fod angen inniymarfer corff mwy, bwyta deiet isel o ranbraster, uchel o ran ffibr, bwyta mwy offrwythau a llysiau, yfed llai o alcohol apheidio ag ysmygu o gwbl o ddewis. Mae’nneges syml, y mae llawer o bobl wedi eideall. Y broblem yw bod y cyfryngau yngyffredinol yn aml yn drysu pobl drwyadrodd am bob math o ddamcaniaethau o ransut y gallai pobl fyw yn iach. Yn aml byddpobl yn drysu—mae’r negeseuon yn aml yngroes i’w gilydd—ac yn dweud pethau fel,‘wel, pe baech yn gwrando ar yr hyn addywedant, ni fyddech yn bwyta o gwbl’.Rhaid i’n neges sylfaenol dorri ar drawshynny, a chredaf ei bod yn gwneud.

I congratulate Jane for emphasising, fromday one, socio-economic factors and fortaking them fully on board in her thinkingand statements and policies. People are notreceptive to healthy living messages if theyare struggling to make ends meet from day today and from week to week. We mustrecognise that and have a strategy to copewith it. I ask Jane to address food-labellingissues, because if people want to eathealthily, they must know the contents of thefood that they are buying and eating. Toooften we are not in a position, as consumers,to know exactly what the content of the foodthat we buy and eat is. That needsaddressing.

Hoffwn longyfarch Jane am bwysleisio, o’rdiwrnod cyntaf, y ffactorau cymdeithasol-economaidd ac am eu cynnwys yn eithybiaeth a’i datganiadau a’i pholisïau. Nidyw pobl yn barod i wrando ar negeseuon bywyn iach os ydynt yn brwydro i gael deupenllinyn ynghyd o ddydd i ddydd ac o wythnosi wythnos. Rhaid inni gydnabod hynny achael strategaeth i ymdopi ag ef. Gofynnaf iJane ymdrin â materion labelu bwyd,oherwydd os bydd pobl am fwyta’n iach,rhaid iddynt wybod beth yw cynnwys y bwydy maent yn ei brynu a’i fwyta. Yn amlach napheidio, nid ydym mewn sefyllfa, feldefnyddwyr, i wybod yn union beth sydd yny bwyd a brynwn ac a fwytawn. Mae angen

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ymdrin â hynny.

Finally, young people, in my experience,often seem to think that they will liveforever. I perhaps felt like that when I was ateenager. They are not receptive to the sort ofmessages that we send when they think likethat. We need to address that as well, andperhaps target some of our message at peoplein their mid to late 20s and early 30s, whenthey are more receptive to changing theirlifestyles towards healthy living.

Yn olaf, ymddengys fod pobl ifanc, yn fymhrofiad i, yn aml yn credu y byddant ynbyw am byth. Efallai y teimlais innau yr unpeth pan oeddwn yn fy arddegau. Nid ydyntyn barod i dderbyn y math o negeseuon aanfonwn pan maent o’r farn honno. Maeangen inni ymdrin â hynny hefyd, a thargedurhai o’n negeseuon at bobl sydd yng nghanoli ddiwedd eu 20au a dechrau eu 30au, panfyddant yn barotach i newid eu ffordd o fywtuag at fwyta’n iach.

Jane Hutt: Although we had the statementon Blaenavon in the middle of this debate,we have had an excellent discussion. Theannouncement about Blaenavon is relevant tothe debate, because promoting prosperity andopportunity is part of the wider healthagenda. In Blaenavon, the spirit and hope andexpectations of people in that communitywill rise as a result of today’s marvellousnews. That takes us on to the point abouthow we can ensure that we make thoseconnections about building confidence,building self-esteem and building aspirations,which is all about promoting optimism in thewider health agenda.

Jane Hutt: Er inni gael y datganiad arFlaenafon yng nghanol y ddadl hon, cawsomdrafodaeth ragorol. Mae’r cyhoeddiad arFlaenafon yn berthnasol i’r ddadl, am fodhybu ffyniant a chyfle yn rhan o’r agendaiechyd ehangach. Ym Mlaenafon, byddysbryd a gobaith a disgwyliadau pobl yn ygymuned honno yn codi o ganlyniad inewyddion gwych heddiw. Mae hynny yn einharwain at y pwynt ynglyn â sut y gallwnsicrhau y gwnawn y cysylltiadau hynnyynglyn ag adeiladu hyder, hunan-barch adyheadau, sydd i gyd yn ymwneud â hybuoptimistiaeth yn yr agenda iechyd ehangach.

I turn to Dai Lloyd’s contribution. Wesupport amendment 1. There is much cross-party agreement about this health agenda.There are a few issues along the way in thedebate, on which I will touch, where we maydiffer. However, we understand in thisChamber, and across all parties, thatpromoting health in its widest sense is vitalfor the economic and social health andwellbeing of the people of Wales. Localgovernment is critical to this agenda—youare right, Dai. That is why many people gointo politics. They see the importance oflocal government. That is why we have giventhe responsibility for the co-ordination oflocal health alliances to local government, sothat it can steer the way in partnership, withthe voluntary sector in particular, but alsowith the NHS. The responsibility forenvironmental health, transport, socialservices and housing is all at local level. It isimportant that in our partnership with localgovernment we have had a health and

Trof at gyfraniad Dai Lloyd. Cefnogwnwelliant 1. Mae llawer o gytundeb traws-bleidiol ynglyn â’r agenda iechyd hon. Maeychydig o faterion ar hyd y ffordd yn y ddadl,y byddaf yn cyffwrdd â hwy, lle y byddwn yngwahaniaethu efallai. Fodd bynnag, deallwnyn y Siambr hon, ac ar draws bob plaid, fodhybu iechyd yn ei ystyr ehangaf yn hollbwysig ar gyfer iechyd a lles economaidd achymdeithasol pobl Cymru. Mae llywodraethleol yn holl bwysig i’r agenda hon—yr ydychyn gywir, Dai. Dyna pam bod cymaint o boblyn dewis gwleidyddiaeth. Gwelantbwysigrwydd llywodraeth leol. Dyna pam yrhoddasom y cyfrifoldeb dros gydlynucynghreiriau iechyd lleol i lywodraeth leol,fel y gall lywio’r ffordd mewn partneriaeth,â’r sector gwirfoddol yn arbennig, ond â’rNHS hefyd. Mae’r cyfrifoldeb dros iechyd yramgylchedd, trafnidiaeth, gwasanaethaucymdeithasol a thai i gyd ar lefel leol. Mae’nbwysig ein bod, yn ein partneriaeth âllywodraeth leol, wedi cael tasglu iechyd a

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wellbeing taskforce, which has done somegood work. It will report shortly to theAssembly and to local government.

lles, sydd wedi gwneud peth gwaith da. Byddyn cyflwyno adroddiad yn fuan i’r Cynulliadac i lywodraeth leol.

Health is thought of in broad terms, which iswhy the NHS is only part of the answer. Thisgoes back to the point that has been madeabout the importance of using our resourcesin the health service wisely. It is only part ofthe answer, however. The wider public healthagenda and how we tackle these determinantsof ill-health are critical. Many contributionshave been about smoking. You started thisoff, Dai, with your point about smoking-related deaths in Wales. Smoking cessationinitiatives are not easy. We must learn whatworks and what does not. Many of you mighthave seen an advert in the press recentlyabout the impact of nicotine patches and howpeople have been able to give up smoking byusing them. With young people, it is not assimple as just having those good projects inprimary schools—the smoke busting clubsand the smoke-free classroom competitions.A primary school class from Merthyr Tydfilwon a prize for making a video aboutstopping smoking. They went to Munich tocelebrate with others. Their key aim asprimary school children was to stop theirmums and dads and aunties smoking. Furtherdown the road, when they becomeadolescents, it is a much harder message.John, Christine, Kirsty and others have madethe point that we cannot lecture people aboutsmoking.

Ystyrir iechyd mewn termau cyffredinol, acfelly dyna pam mai dim ond rhan o’r atebyw’r NHS. Dychwela hyn at y pwynt awnaed am bwysigrwydd defnyddio einhadnoddau yn y gwasanaeth iechyd ynddoeth. Dim ond rhan o’r ateb ydyw, foddbynnag. Mae’r agenda iechyd ehangach a sutyr awn i’r afael â’r penderfynyddion salwchhyn yn holl bwysig. Bu llawer o’rcyfraniadau ynglyn ag ysmygu. Dai, chi addechreuodd hyn, drwy sôn am farwolaethauoedd yn gysylltiedig ag ysmygu yngNghymru. Nid yw mentrau peidio agysmygu yn hawdd. Rhaid inni ddysgu bethsydd yn gweithio a beth nad yw’n gweithio.Efallai bod llawer ohonoch wedi gweldhysbyseb yn y wasg yn ddiweddar am effaithclytiau nicotîn a sut y mae pobl wedi llwyddoi roi’r gorau i ysmygu drwy eu defnyddio.Gyda phobl ifanc, nid yw mor syml â chael yprosiectau da hynny mewn ysgolioncynradd—y clybiau mygu mwg a’rcystadlaethau ystafelloedd dosbarth di-fwg.Enillodd dosbarth ysgol gynradd o FerthyrTudful wobr am wneud fideo ynglyn â rhoi’rgorau i ysmygu. Aethant i Munich i ddathlugydag eraill. Eu prif nod fel plant ysgolgynradd oedd cael eu mamau a’u tadau a’umodrybedd i roi’r gorau i ysmygu. Yn nesymlaen, pan fyddant yn eu llencyndod, mae’nneges anos o lawer. Gwnaeth John, Christine,Kirsty ac eraill y pwynt na allwn bregethuwrth bobl am ysmygu.

12:05 p.m.

We all know the pressures and many of ushave been there. It is not just about peerpressure or the attraction of smoking butother issues. Jocelyn raised important pointsabout the media and the issue of smoking anddiet in young women. We must know whatworks. It goes back to the fact that we mustlisten to young people as well as listening tothe experts in the health promotion fieldabout how we tackle smoking, which DaiLloyd, David Melding and others havespoken about so powerfully.

Gwyr pob un ohonom am y pwysau ac maellawer ohonom wedi eu hwynebu. Mae’nymwneud nid yn unig â phwysau cyfoedionneu atyniad ysmygu ond â materion eraill.Cododd Jocelyn bwyntiau pwysig am ycyfryngau a materion ysmygu a deiet mewnmerched ifanc. Rhaid inni wybod beth syddyn gweithio. Mae’n dychwelyd at y ffaith fodyn rhaid inni wrando ar bobl ifanc yn ogystalâ gwrando ar yr arbenigwyr ym maes hybuiechyd ynglyn â sut yr awn i’r afael agysmygu, y mae Dai Lloyd, David Melding aceraill wedi traethu arno mor bwerus.

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In terms of poverty and ill-health, we have alltaken this on board and it is about improvingaccess to services as Lynne Neagle, DaiLloyd, Kirsty Williams, David Melding andPeter Law mentioned. That is why I launchedthe health inequalities fund, which willprovide £3 million for next year and increaseto £6 million over the next three years. It isimportant that we target those resources tothe communities that suffer, not only in termsof ill-health, but as a result of the inversecare law, which means that they have poorerresources and services. We also link that tothe Townsend review, which is currentlyunderway.

Yn nhermau tlodi a salwch, mae pob unohonom wedi ystyried hyn ac mae’nymwneud â gwella’r hawl i wasanaethau fely soniodd Lynne Neagle, Dai Lloyd, KirstyWilliams, David Melding a Peter Law. Dynapam y lansiais y gronfa anghydraddoldebauiechyd, a fydd yn darparu £3 miliwn ar gyfery flwyddyn nesaf gan gynyddu i £6 miliwndros y tair blynedd nesaf. Mae’n bwysig einbod yn targedu’r adnoddau hynny i’rcymunedau sydd yn dioddef, nid yn unig oran salwch, ond o ganlyniad i’r ddeddf gofalwrthdro, sydd yn golygu bod ganddyntadnoddau a gwasanaethau tlotach. Cysylltwnhynny hefyd ag adolygiad Townsend, sydd ary gweill ar hyn o bryd.

The evidence shows that there is a healthdivide. The more prosperous somecommunities become—Dai, you touched onthis—the greater the inequalities. We musttackle the relative inequalities in Wales. Wemay improve our GDP and our prosperity,but if we do nothing to help the poorestpeople their experience of poverty and ill-health will deepen. This is fundamental toevery Assembly Committee and to everyCabinet Minister. It is fundamental to theeconomic development agenda in how weuse Objective 1 and how we take on boardthe health impact assessment. It is importantfor education and the environment. I hopethat all the Subject Committees willrecognise that we must redistribute healthstatus, health care and health resources inWales, if we are to make a difference.

Dengys y dystiolaeth fod rhaniad o raniechyd. Po fwyaf ffyniannus y daw rhai o’rcymunedau—Dai, soniasoch am hyn—pofwyaf yr anghydraddoldebau. Rhaid inni fyndi’r afael â’r anghydraddoldebau cymharolyng Nghymru. Efallai y gwellwn eincynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth a’n ffyniant,ond os na wnawn ddim byd i helpu’r bobldlotaf bydd eu profiad o dlodi ac afiechyd yndwysáu. Mae hyn yn sylfaenol i bobPwyllgor yn y Cynulliad ac i bob Gweinidogyn y Cynulliad. Mae’n sylfaenol i’r agendadatblygu economaidd yn y modd ydefnyddiwn Amcan 1 a sut yr ystyriwn yrasesiad ar effaith iechyd. Mae’n bwysig argyfer addysg a’r amgylchedd. Gobeithiaf ybydd y Pwyllgorau Pwnc yn cydnabod bodyn rhaid inni ailddosbarthu statws iechyd,gofal iechyd ac adnoddau iechyd yngNghymru, os ydym i wneud gwahaniaeth.

In terms of David Melding’s points, we mustacknowledge lifestyle choices. We are allpleased that the Conservatives haverecognised the errors of the ways of theformer Government and of Mrs Thatcherwho buried the Black report.[CONSERVATIVE ASSEMBLY MEMBERS:‘Come on.’] It was said in good spirit. Weacknowledge that you have had a change ofheart. Even David Davies has admitted themistakes of the former Government. David,we are pleased—

O ran pwyntiau David Melding, rhaid innigydnabod dewisiadau ffordd o fyw. Mae pobun ohonom yn falch bod y Ceidwadwyr wedicydnabod camgymeriadau’r Llywodraethflaenorol a Mrs Thatcher a gladdoddadroddiad Black. [AELODAU CEIDWADOLO’R CYNULLIAD: ‘Dewch ymlaen’] Fe’idywedwyd mewn ysbryd da. Cydnabyddwneich bod wedi newid eich meddwl. Mae hydyn oed David Davies wedi cyfaddefcamgymeriadau’r Llywodraeth flaenorol.David, yr ydym yn falch—

David Melding: I make it clear that we havenever taken the hard-line position that younow attribute to us. It is a parody of our

David Melding: Egluraf nad ydym erioedwedi arddel y safbwynt digyfaddawd ypriodolwch inni yn awr. Mae’n barodi o’n

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position. However, I am happy to make ourrecognition of socio-economic factorsexplicit and it was in that spirit that theamendment was tabled.

safbwynt. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn falch owneud ein cydnabyddiaeth o’r ffactoraucymdeithasol economaidd yn eglur ac yn yrysbryd hwnnw y cyflwynwyd y gwelliant.

Jane Hutt: We are grateful, and in that spiritwe move forward to recognise the linkbetween poverty and ill-health, whichDonald Acheson, who was Chief MedicalOfficer when Labour came to power in 1997,confirmed.

Jane Hutt: Yr ydym yn ddiolchgar, ac yn yrysbryd hwnnw symudwn ymlaen i gydnabody cysylltiad rhwng tlodi a salwch, agadarnhaodd Donald Acheson, sef y PrifSwyddog Meddygol pan ddaeth Llafur i rymym 1997.

We need to ensure that our GDP rises in thepoorest communities and that it is linked toeconomic wellbeing. We must recognise thatwhile death rates have fallen and lifeexpectancy rates have risen, inequalities haveincreased and that is the critical challenge forall of us. David, you made some importantcomments about the role of the voluntarysector, the role of carers and the importanceof the mental health strategy. I have hadsubmissions this week from the RoyalNational Institute for the Blind about theimportance of health inequalities regardingpeople with visual impairments. Earlier thisweek, as Brian mentioned, Mencap talkedabout the role of carers, particularly oldercarers. They are as important as youngercarers. Many speakers have talked aboutmental health. The mental health strategythat we will implement after muchconsultation must also address healthinequalities. In the Valleys, we know thatthere are more mental health problems,higher levels of teenage pregnancy and loneparenthood, higher levels of self-reportedsickness and dependency on invalidity andincapacity benefits. Peter Law, you rightlyread out the roll call, which is shameful interms of the experience of people living inthose communities. It links to our actions onthe wider health agenda, mental healthstrategies, environmental issues, economicdevelopment, housing and all other areas.

Rhaid inni sicrhau bod ein cynnyrchmewnwladol crynswth yn codi yn ycymunedau tlotaf a’i fod yn gysylltiedig âlles economaidd. Rhaid inni gydnabod, erbod cyfraddau marwolaeth wedi gostwng achyfraddau disgwyliad oes wedi codi, bodanghydraddoldebau wedi cynyddu a dyna’rher holl bwysig i bob un ohonom. David,gwnaethoch rai sylwadau pwysig am rôl ysector gwirfoddol, rôl cynhalwyr aphwysigrwydd y strategaeth iechyd meddwl.Cefais gyflwyniadau’r wythnos hon ganSefydliad Cenedlaethol Brenhinol y Deillionam bwysigrwydd anghydraddoldebau iechydo ran bobl â nam gweledol. Yn gynharach yrwythnos hon, fel y soniodd Brian, sonioddMencap am rôl cynhalwyr, yn arbennigcynhalwyr hyn. Maent yr un mor bwysig âchynhalwyr ifancach. Mae llawer o lefarwyrwedi sôn am iechyd meddwl. Bydd yn rhaidi’r strategaeth iechyd meddwl, a weithredirgennym ar ôl llawer o ymgynghori, ymdrinag anghydraddoldebau iechyd hefyd. Yn yCymoedd, gwyddom fod mwy o broblemauiechyd meddwl, lefelau uwch ofeichiogrwydd ymysg merched yn euharddegau a rhieni sengl, lefelau uwch osalwch a hunangofnodir a dibyniaeth ar fudd-daliadau anabledd ac analluogrwydd. PeterLaw, darllenasoch y gofrestr ac yr oeddechyn iawn i wneud hynny, ac mae’ngywilyddus o ran profiad y bobl sydd yn bywyn y cymunedau hynny. Mae’n cysylltu â’rcamau a gymerwn ynglyn â’r agenda iechydehangach, strategaethau iechyd meddwl,materion amgylcheddol, datblygiadeconomaidd, tai a phob maes arall.

Members have asked how changes can bemade. Christine Chapman, Peter Law andothers made powerful contributions on the

Gofynnodd yr aelodau sut y gellir gwneudnewidiadau. Gwnaeth Christine Chapman,Peter Law ac eraill gyfraniadau pwerus ar

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importance of enabling young people torealise that there is hope in life. Theconnection must be made between self-esteem and improving aspirations,opportunities and self-confidence. That isvitally important to young men and women inthe Valleys. There is a clear connection withteenage pregnancies. Young men and womenin those communities need hopes andexpectations for the future.

bwysigrwydd galluogi pobl ifanc isylweddoli bod gobaith mewn bywyd. Rhaidgwneud y cysylltiad rhwng hunan-barch agwella dyheadau, cyfleoedd a hunan-hyder.Mae hynny’n holl bwysig i ddynion amerched ifanc yn y Cymoedd. Mae cysylltiadclir â merched yn beichiogi yn eu harddegau.Mae angen gobeithion a disgwyliadau argyfer y dyfodol ar y dynion a’r merched ifancyn y cymunedau hynny.

Alun Cairns, Kirsty Williams and othersmentioned the importance of food. Researchshows that, in the poorest communities, thereis a poor range of shops; food and otheressentials are expensive, costing aboveaverage, and the public transport provision ispoor. If obtaining healthier food is moreexpensive, it is difficult for people toconsider eating healthily. Alun is right thatwe must ensure that basic enjoyment ofcookery is reinstated as part of thecurriculum in schools.

Mae Alun Cairns, Kirsty Williams ac eraillwedi sôn am bwysigrwydd bwyd. Dengysymchwil fod amrywiaeth wael o siopau yn ycymunedau tlotaf; bod bwyd a hanfodioneraill yn gostus, yn costio mwy na’rcyfartaledd, a bod darpariaeth cludiantcyhoeddus yn wael. Os yw cael bwydiachach yn costio mwy, mae’n anodd i boblystyried bwyta’n iach. Mae Alun yn iawnbod yn rhaid inni sicrhau y caiff mwynhadsylfaenol coginio ei adfer fel rhan o’rcwricwlwm mewn ysgolion.

Alun Cairns: Do you accept that freshproduce is quite often cheaper than someready-made meals on supermarket shelves?

Alun Cairns: A ydych yn derbyn bodcynnyrch ffres yn eithaf aml yn rhatach narhai prydau parod ar silffoedd yrarchfarchnad?

Jane Hutt: Fresh produce is cheaper.However, it is not always available ascheaply in small and more expensive shopsin the Valleys and in rural areas. People inthose areas do not have access to cheap fruitand vegetables in markets. Fruit tuck shopsin schools are important as they allowchildren to access fruit and learn howenjoyable it is. They enable teachers tointroduce fruit into the curriculum. That istaking place through primary school fruittuck shop projects. Community foodinitiatives are also important. I have justlaunched a scheme that awards grants tocommunity food initiatives across Wales.That will assist in building access tocommunity food.

Jane Hutt: Mae cynnyrch ffres yn rhatach.Fodd bynnag, nid yw bob amser ar gael morrhad mewn siopau bach a mwy costus yn yCymoedd ac mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Ni ally bobl yn yr ardaloedd hynny fanteisio arffrwythau a llysiau rhad mewnmarchnadoedd. Mae siopau ffrwythau mewnysgolion yn bwysig gan eu bod yn caniatáu iblant gael gafael ar ffrwythau a dysgu pa morbleserus yw eu bwyta. Galluogant athrawon igyflwyno ffrwythau yn y cwricwlwm. Maehynny’n digwydd drwy brosiectau siopauffrwythau mewn ysgolion cynradd. Maementrau bwyd cymunedol yn bwysig hefyd.Yr wyf newydd lansio cynllun sy’n rhoigrantiau i fentrau bwyd cymunedol ledledCymru. Bydd hynny’n helpu wrth sicrhau yrhawl i fwyd cymunedol.

In response to David Melding’s point, it isvital that Health Promotion Wales is now apart of the Assembly. Its staff are pleased tobe here, and it has brought many skills andmuch expertise to the Assembly. It has also

Ac ymateb i bwynt David Melding, mae’nholl bwysig bod Hybu Iechyd Cymru bellachyn rhan o’r Cynulliad. Mae ei staff yn falch ofod yma, ac mae wedi dod â llawer o sgiliauac arbenigedd i’r Cynulliad. Mae hefyd wedi

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brought evidence of what works and does notwork and its links with the health service, thevoluntary sector and with people working inthe field.

dod â thystiolaeth o’r hyn sydd yn gweithioa’r hyn nad yw’n gweithio ac yn cysylltu â’rgwasanaeth iechyd, y sector gwirfoddol a’rbobl sydd yn gweithio yn y maes.

In reviewing and monitoring in future, wemust ask whether we have made a differenceto people’s health and whether we haveachieved our health gain targets. I do notwant health promotion to be seen as anadjunct or an add-on to the Assembly. It isessential to improving health and wellbeing.Health Promotion Wales wants to feel that itis part of that. I am sure that David Meldingagrees.

Wrth arolygu a monitro yn y dyfodol, rhaidinni ofyn a ydym wedi gwneud gwahaniaeth iiechyd pobl ac a ydym wedi cyflawni eintargedau gwella iechyd. Nid wyf am i hybuiechyd gael ei ystyried yn ategiad neu’nychwanegiad i’r Cynulliad. Mae’n hanfodol iwella iechyd a lles. Mae Hybu Iechyd Cymruam deimlo ei fod yn rhan o hynny. Yr wyf ynsiwr y cytuna David Melding.

Kirsty rightly mentioned that the partnershipagreement has shifted health promotion upthe agenda. I have already mentionedbreakfast clubs and fruit tuck shops.Breakfast clubs are key for young childrenwho come to school without any food in theirstomachs. Children cannot be expected torelax and achieve or attain anything during aschool day if they start it with an emptystomach. We will develop breakfast clubsthrough community food initiatives, wherechildren and others in the community canpop in and start the day with a healthier diet.

Soniodd Kirsty fod y cytundeb partneriaethwedi symud hybu iechyd i fyny’r agenda. Yrwyf eisoes wedi sôn am glybiau brecwast asiopau ffrwythau mewn ysgolion. Maeclybiau brecwast yn allweddol i blant bachsydd yn dod i’r ysgol heb unrhyw fwyd yn eustumogau. Ni ellir disgwyl i blant ymlacio achyflawni unrhyw beth yn ystod y diwrnodysgol os dechreuant y diwrnod gyda stumogwag. Byddwn yn datblygu clybiau brecwastdrwy fentrau bwyd cymunedol, lle y gallplant ac eraill yn y gymuned alw i mewn adechrau’r diwrnod gyda deiet iachach.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Are younearing the end of your speech?

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: A ydych yn dod iddiwedd eich araith?

Jane Hutt: Yes. Many other importantcontributions have been made to this debate.I will write to Alun Cairns about prostatescreening, as I know that he is concernedabout that. Brian Hancock will be glad tohear that midwives, as well as health visitors,which were mentioned earlier, are a key partof the health team at primary care level.

Jane Hutt: Ydw. Gwnaethpwyd cyfraniadaupwysig eraill i’r ddadl hon. Byddaf ynysgrifennu at Alun Cairns ynglyn â sgrinio argyfer canser y brostrad, gan fy mod yngwybod ei fod yn pryderu yn ei gylch. ByddBrian Hancock yn falch o glywed bodbydwragedd, yn ogystal ag ymwelwyriechyd, y soniwyd amdanynt yn gynharach,yn rhan allweddol o’r tîm iechyd ar lefelgofal sylfaenol.

Geraint Davies and Christine Chapmanmentioned primary care development inRhondda Cynon Taff. It is driven by the localhealth group, led by Dr Chris Jones, who is apioneering GP in that community. YoungGPs are being encouraged and enabled tomove to the Cynon Valley to work. There aremoves towards an intermediate healthcarefacility, which will be considered shortly by

Soniodd Geraint Davies a Christine Chapmanam ddatblygiad gofal cynradd yn RhonddaCynon Taf. Fe’i hybir gan y grwp iechydlleol, o dan arweiniad Dr Chris Jones, syddyn feddyg teulu arloeosol yn y gymunedhonno. Caiff meddygon teulu ifanc euhannog a’u galluogi i symud i Gwm Cynon iweithio. Mae cynlluniau ar y gweill i symudtuag at gyfleuster gofal iechyd canolradd, a

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Bro Taf Health Authority and by theAssembly.

ystyrir cyn bo hir gan Awdurdod Iechyd BroTaf a chan y Cynulliad.

12:15 p.m.

Radical changes are being made, which meanthat the primary care led health service thatwe want in Wales is developing. We haveseen the fruits of that, which you and othershave acknowledged today. In answer toLorraine and others, Communities First isvital because if we want to target thosepockets of poverty in all parts of Wales, wemust consider how we can reach the poorestpeople and recognise that their ill-health isoften forgotten in terms of wider prosperity.Unfortunately, that is part of the big healthdivide in Wales and the fact that some of itscitizens suffer the poorest health in the UKand western Europe. This proactive approachis radical; it is not only a wish list. It isbacked by money and requires everyCommittee and Cabinet Minster to considerwhat it means in terms of their agendas and,in particular, how we can make the best useof Objective 1 in the communities in theValleys and west Wales where the pooresthealth prevails.

Gwneir newidiadau radical, sydd yn golygubod y gwasanaeth iechyd, wedi ei arwain ganofal sylfaenol, yr ydym am ei gael yngNghymru, yn datblygu. Gwelsom ffrwythhynny, ac yr ydych chi ac eraill wedicydnabod hynny heddiw. I ateb Lorraine aceraill, mae Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf ynholl bwysig oherwydd os ydym i dargedu’rpocedi hynny o dlodi ym mhob rhan oGymru, rhaid inni ystyried sut y gallwngyrraedd y bobl dlotaf a chydnabod y caiff eusalwch yn aml ei anghofio yn nhermauffyniant ehangach. Yn anffodus, maehynny’n rhan o’r bwlch iechyd mawr syddyng Nghymru a’r ffaith fod rhai o’idinasyddion yn dioddef o’r iechyd gwaelafyn y DU a gorllewin Ewrop. Mae’rymagwedd ragweithiol hon yn radical; nidrhestr o ddymuniadau yn unig ydyw. Fe’ihategir gan arian ac mae’n galw ar bobPwyllgor a Gweinidog o’r Cabinet i ystyriedbeth mae’n ei olygu mewn perthynas â’uhagendâu, ac yn arbennig, sut y gallwnwneud y defnydd gorau o Amcan 1 yngnghymunedau’r Cymoedd a gorllewin Cymrulle mae’r iechyd gwaelaf.

Gwelliant 1: O blaid 50, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 0.Amendment 1: For 50, Abstain 0, Against 0.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:The following Members voted for:

Barrett, LorraineBates, MickBourne, NickButler, RosemaryCairns, AlunChapman, ChristineDafis, CynogDavidson, JaneDavies, AndrewDavies, DavidDavies, GeraintDavies, JocelynDavies, RonEdwards, RichardEssex, SueEvans, DelythFeld, ValGerman, MichaelGraham, WilliamGregory, Janice

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Griffiths, JohnGwyther, ChristineHalford, AlisonHancock, BrianHutt, JaneJarman, PaulineJones, CarwynJones, ElinJones, GarethJones, Helen MaryJones, Ieuan WynLaw, PeterLewis, HuwLloyd, DavidMelding, David Middlehurst, TomMorgan, JonathanMorgan, RhodriNeagle, LynnePugh, AlunRanderson, JennyRichards, RodRogers, PeterRyder, JanetThomas, GwendaThomas, Owen JohnThomas, Rhodri GlynWigley, DafyddWilliams, KirstyWilliams, Phil

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.Amendment adopted.

Gwelliant 2: O blaid 49, Ymatal 1, Yn erbyn 0.Amendment 2: For 49, Abstain 1, Against 0.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:The following Members voted for:

Barrett, LorraineBates, MickBourne, NickButler, RosemaryCairns, AlunChapman, ChristineDafis, CynogDavidson, JaneDavies, AndrewDavies, GeraintDavies, GlynDavies, JocelynDavies, RonEdwards, RichardEssex, SueEvans, DelythFeld, ValGerman, MichaelGraham, WilliamGregory, JaniceGriffiths, JohnGwyther, ChristineHalford, AlisonHancock, Brian

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Hutt, JaneJarman, PaulineJones, CarwynJones, ElinJones, GarethJones, Helen MaryJones, Ieuan WynLaw, PeterLewis, HuwLloyd, DavidMelding, David Middlehurst, TomMorgan, JonathanMorgan, RhodriNeagle, LynnePugh, AlunRanderson, JennyRichards, RodRogers, PeterRyder, JanetThomas, GwendaThomas, Rhodri GlynWigley, DafyddWilliams, KirstyWilliams, Phil

Ymataliodd yr Aelod canlynol:The following Member abstained:

Davies, David

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.Amendment adopted.

Gwelliant 3: O blaid 50, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 0.Amendment 3: For 50, Abstain 0, Against 0.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:The following Members voted for:

Barrett, LorraineBates, MickBourne, NickButler, RosemaryCairns, AlunChapman, ChristineDafis, CynogDavidson, JaneDavies, AndrewDavies, DavidDavies, GeraintDavies, GlynDavies, JocelynDavies, RonEdwards, RichardEssex, SueEvans, DelythFeld, ValGerman, MichaelGraham, WilliamGregory, JaniceGriffiths, JohnGwyther, ChristineHalford, AlisonHancock, Brian

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Hutt, JaneJarman, PaulineJones, CarwynJones, ElinJones, GarethJones, Helen MaryJones, Ieuan WynLaw, PeterLewis, HuwLloyd, DavidMelding, David Middlehurst, TomMorgan, JonathanMorgan, RhodriNeagle, LynnePugh, AlunRanderson, JennyRichards, RodRogers, PeterRyder, JanetThomas, GwendaThomas, Rhodri GlynWigley, DafyddWilliams, KirstyWilliams, Phil

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.Amendment adopted.

Amended motion: Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio:

The National Assembly Mae’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol

welcomes the framework set by the nationalhealth promotion strategy, which wascirculated to Members by e-mail on 22November 2000, as the basis for a co-ordinated and sustained effort to promotebetter health;

yn croesawu’r fframwaith a osodwyd gan ystrategaeth hybu iechyd genedlaethol addosbarthwyd i’r Aelodau ar ffurf e-bost ar22 Tachwedd 2000 fel sail ar gyfer ymdrechgydlynol a pharhaus i hybu gwell iechyd;

acknowledges the central contributionindividuals can make to promoting theirhealth and wellbeing through healthylifestyle choices;

yn cydnabod y cyfraniad hanfodol y gallunigolion ei wneud i hyrwyddo’u hiechyd a’ulles drwy ddewis ffyrdd iach o fyw;

approves the action plan followingconsultation on the strategy as a significantcontribution to the partnership agreement’scommitment to a greater emphasis onpreventing ill-health;

yn cymeradwyo’r cynllun gweithredu, ar ôlymgynghori ar y strategaeth, fel cyfraniadsylweddol at ymrwymiad y cytundebpartneriaeth i roi mwy o bwyslais ar atalafiechyd;

recognises the importance of socio-economicfactors on the health profile of communitiesand the resulting implications for healthpromotion measures;

yn cydnabod pwysigrwydd ffactoraucymdeithasol-economaidd i broffil iechydcymunedau, a goblygiadau hynny ar fesurauhybu iechyd;

recognises that the long-term success of thisstrategy is dependent on a co-ordinated

yn cydnabod bod llwyddiant tymor hir ystrategaeth hon yn dibynnu ar ddatblygu

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approach to health and wellbeing becomingevident across the range of the Assembly’sprogrammes. In particular, however, it willbe linked to the achievement of the relatedaims of such important documents as themental health strategies, the substancemisuse strategy, the sexual health strategyand the forthcoming strategic framework forchildren and young people. The Assemblytherefore recognises the pressing need fortargeted investment linked to practicalprogrammes of action; and

ymagwedd gydlynol at iechyd a lles ar drawsholl raglenni’r Cynulliad. Yn benodol, foddbynnag, bydd yn dibynnu ar gyflawni’ramcanion cysylltiedig a gynhwysir mewndogfennau pwysig megis y strategaethauiechyd meddwl, y strategaeth camddefnyddiosylweddau, y strategaeth iechyd rhyw a’rfframwaith strategol ar gyfer plant a phoblifanc sydd ar y gweill ar hyn o bryd. Felly,mae’r Cynulliad yn cydnabod yr angendybryd am fuddsoddi wedi’i dargedu, syddyn gysylltiedig â rhaglenni gweithreduymarferol.

urges the Subject Committees to consider theimpact of their policies and programmes onpeople’s health as a means of identifying newopportunities to promote health as anintegrated part of wider action.

yn annog y Pwyllgorau Pwnc i ystyriedeffaith eu polisïau a’u rhaglenni ar iechydpobl, fel modd o nodi cyfleoedd newydd ihybu iechyd fel rhan o ymgyrch ehangach.

Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio: O blaid 51, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 0.Amended motion: For 51, Abstain 0, Against 0.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:The following Members voted for:

Barrett, LorraineBates, MickBourne, NickButler, RosemaryCairns, AlunChapman, ChristineDafis, CynogDavidson, JaneDavies, AndrewDavies, DavidDavies, GeraintDavies, GlynDavies, JocelynDavies, RonEdwards, RichardEssex, SueEvans, DelythFeld, ValGerman, MichaelGraham, WilliamGregory, JaniceGriffiths, JohnGwyther, ChristineHalford, AlisonHancock, BrianHutt, JaneJarman, PaulineJones, CarwynJones, ElinJones, GarethJones, Helen MaryJones, Ieuan WynLaw, PeterLewis, Huw

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Lloyd, DavidMelding, David Middlehurst, TomMorgan, JonathanMorgan, RhodriNeagle, LynnePugh, AlunRanderson, JennyRichards, RodRogers, PeterRyder, JanetThomas, GwendaThomas, Owen JohnThomas, Rhodri GlynWigley, DafyddWilliams, KirstyWilliams, Phil

Derbyniwyd y cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio.Amended motion adopted.

Dadl FerShort Debate

Codi Lefel ein SgiliauUpgrading our Skills Base

Delyth Evans: I regret the fact that youallowed the last debate to run over, DeputyPresiding Officer, because it eats intoopportunities for back benchers to speak, andI do not only mean myself—

Delyth Evans: Mae’n edifar gennyf eich bodwedi caniatáu i’r ddadl olaf redeg yn hwyr,Ddirprwy Lywydd, gan ei fod yn lleihau’rcyfleoedd i’r meincwyr cefn siarad, ac nidwyf yn golygu fi fy hun yn unig—

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. Youwill get the full 30 minutes for your shortdebate.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Fe gewch eich30 munud llawn ar gyfer eich dadl fer.

Delyth Evans: I appreciate that, but manypeople have to leave after 12.30 p.m.,including myself, and beginning the debate ata later time does not help.

Delyth Evans: Gwerthfawrogaf hynny, ondrhaid i lawer o bobl adael ar ôl 12.30 p.m.,gan gynnwys fi fy hun, ac nid yw cychwyn yddadl yn hwyrach yn helpu.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order.Assembly business comes first and last. Ifsomeone does not want to be here, they areperfectly at liberty not to be here. However,everybody is here in the service of theAssembly. I will protect your time to ensurethat you get 30 minutes. The fact that otherMembers may have spoken for too long mustnot be seen as a criticism of this Assembly. Idid not think that they spoke for too long,and I hope that I will think the same of you.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Daw busnes yCynulliad yn gyntaf ac yn olaf. Os nad ywrhywun yn dymuno bod yma, mae ganddyntberffaith ryddid i beidio â bod yma. Foddbynnag, mae pawb yma i wasanaethu’rCynulliad. Diogelaf eich amser i sicrhau eichbod yn cael 30 munud. Ni ddylai’r ffaith bodAelodau eraill wedi siarad yn rhy faith obosibl gael ei weld fel beirniadaeth o’rCynulliad hwn. Ni chredais iddynt siarad ynrhy faith, a gobeithiaf y teimlaf yr un pethamdanoch chi.

Delyth Evans: I will accept contributions Delyth Evans: Derbyniaf gyfraniadau gan

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from Mick Bates, Gareth Jones and JonathanMorgan.

Mick Bates, Gareth Jones a JonathanMorgan.

Once upon a time there was a poor region ina poor country: a country that would, in daysgone by, have been described as a third worldcountry. The people of this region were nothighly skilled, many of them could not reador write. There were not many jobs to be had,and the jobs that were available were mostlyunskilled and poorly paid.

Un tro yr oedd rhanbarth dlawd mewn gwladdlawd: gwlad a fyddai’n cael ei disgrifio, yny dyddiau a fu, fel gwlad yn y trydydd byd.Nid oedd pobl y rhanbarth hon yn dramedrus, ni allai llawer ohonynt ddarllen nacysgrifennu. Nid oedd llawer o swyddi i’wcael, ac yr oedd y swyddi a oedd ar gael ynrhai heb sgiliau gan fwyaf gyda chyflogaugwael.

However, the government of that region,allied with the country’s nationalgovernment, had an idea. They saw thefuture, and it was a technological one.Therefore, they created a national institute ofinformation technology. They decided thatthey would pioneer computer education inthis region. They developed a rigorousmethodology for IT in the curriculum. Theyset up a computer-drome in the heart of thecapital, with a huge software library andfacilities for practical skills development andthe exploration of new areas. Theyestablished a technology-based institute ofart and design, building on the traditionaltextile skills of that region. They set up anational venture fund for software and ITindustries, focusing on assisting smallenterprises to achieve rapid growth rates andmaintain a competitive edge.

Fodd bynnag, cafodd llywodraeth yrhanbarth honno, mewn cynghrair âllywodraeth genedlaethol y wlad, syniad.Gwelsant y dyfodol, ac yr oedd yn ddyfodoltechnolegol. Felly, crëwyd sefydliadcenedlaethol technoleg gwybodaeth.Penderfynasant arloesi addysg gyfrifiadurolyn yr ardal hon. Datblygwyd methodolegfanwl ar gyfer TG yn y cwricwlwm.Sefydlwyd canolfan gyfrifiadurol yngnghanol y brifddinas, gyda llyfrgellmeddalwedd anferth a chyfleusterau iddatblygu sgiliau ymarferol ac i archwiliomeysydd newydd. Sefydlwyd sefydliad celf achynllunio yn seiliedig ar dechnoleg, ganadeiladu ar sgiliau tecstilau traddodiadol yrhanbarth honno. Sefydlwyd cronfa mentergenedlaethol ar gyfer diwydiannaumeddalwedd a TG, gan ganolbwyntio argynorthwyo busnesau bach i gyflawnicyfraddau twf cyflym a chynnal mantaisgystadleuol.

That was 15 years ago. The country wasIndia, the state was Karnataka and the citywas Bangalore. Today, the software industryis the fastest growing one in India, withBangalore as the hub of development. IBM,Novell, Microsoft, Oracle, Hewlett-Packardand Digital have set up development centresin Bangalore. Government Ministers fromaround the globe visit Bangalore, includingPatricia Hewitt from the UK Government, totry to poach their skilled workers because weare so short of people who are proficient inadvanced IT skills.

Digwyddodd hynny 15 mlynedd yn ôl. Indiaoedd y wlad, Karnataka oedd y dalaith aBangalore oedd y ddinas. Heddiw, ydiwydiant meddalwedd yw’r diwydiant syddyn tyfu gyflymaf yn India, a Bangalore ywcanolbwynt y datblygiad. Sefydlodd IBM,Novell, Microsoft, Oracle, Hewlett-Packard aDigital ganolfannau datblygu ym Mangalore.Mae Gweinidogion llywodraethau ledled ybyd yn ymweld â Bangalore, gan gynnwysPatricia Hewitt o Lywodraeth y DU, i geisiodwyn eu gweithwyr medrus gan ein bod morbrin o bobl fedrus â chanddynt uwch sgiliauTG.

Let us bring this story closer to home. I willnot mention Ireland—I, for one, am tired of

Gadewch inni ddod â’r stori hon yn nesadref. Ni soniaf am Iwerddon—yr wyf i,

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hearing about the lessons we can learn fromour successful neighbour across the water.Let us briefly look at Scotland. Two monthsago, there was a story in The Financial Timesabout Motorola, the US semiconductor andelectronics company, which will set up a £20million software design centre at the AlbaCentre outside Edinburgh. The centre willemploy around 550 highly skilled designersof advanced embedded software andintegrated circuits. According to the article,Motorola had considered six possible sitesworldwide before opting for Scotland. TheAlba Centre campus was created three yearsago by Scottish Enterprise, expressly toattract such high-skilled inward investment.Donald Dewar said that attracting companieslike Motorola was the whole point of theAlba Centre project, and it worked.

ymhlith eraill, wedi hen flino ar glywed am ygwersi y gallwn eu dysgu gan ein cymydogllwyddiannus ar draws y dwr. Gadewch inniedrych yn gyflym ar yr Alban. Ddau fis yn ôl,yr oedd stori yn The Financial Times amMotorola, y cwmni lled-ddargludydd acelectroneg o UDA, a fydd yn sefydlucanolfan cynllunio meddalwedd gwerth £20miliwn yng Nghanolfan Alba y tu allan iGaeredin. Bydd y ganolfan yn cyflogi tua550 o gynllunwyr tra medrus ym maesmeddalwedd mewnol uwch a chylchedauintegredig. Yn ôl yr erthygl, ystyrioddMotorola chwe safle posibl ar draws y bydcyn dewis yr Alban. Crëwyd campwsCanolfan Alba dair blynedd yn ôl gan Fenteryr Alban, yn unswydd er mwyn denumewnfuddsoddiad tra medrus o’r fath.Dywedodd Donald Dewar mai union fwriadprosiect Canolfan Alba oedd denu cwmnïaufel Motorola, ac fe weithiodd.

Therefore, where are we in Wales with thisskills business, and with IT skills inparticular?

Felly, ble yr ydym ni yng Nghymru o ran ybusnes sgiliau hwn, ac o ran sgiliau TG ynbenodol?

Ble yr ydym wedi cyrraedd yng Nghymru ary mater canolog hwn o sgiliau?

Where have we arrived in Wales on thiscentral matter of skills?

Yn fuan ar ôl imi ddod yn Aelod o’rCynulliad, cefais sgwrs gyda rhywun o’rBlaid Lafur yng Ngheredigion. Yr oedd eigefndir mewn cwmnïau meddalwedd ynLlundain ac yr oedd ganddo syniad am godilefel sgiliau technoleg gwybodaeth yngNghymru.

Soon after I became an Assembly Member, Ihad a conversation with someone from theLabour Party in Ceredigion. His backgroundwas in software companies in London and hehad an idea about raising the level ofinformation technology skills in Wales.

Cnewyllyn y syniad oedd datblygu canolfansgiliau TG uwch i lenwi’r bwlch mawr awelai’r dyn profiadol hwn yn y ddarpariaethsgiliau yng Nghymru. Ei ddadl oedd nafyddem byth yn denu’r cwmnïau technolegolmawr i Gymru heb fuddsoddiad mewnsgiliau TG arbenigol. Byddai canolfan o’rfath yn anfon neges glir i’r sector TGynghylch ein huchelgais a’n difrifoldebynglyn â datblygu’r sector hwn. Y syniadoedd tynnu cwmni mawr i mewn yn bartneryn y prosiect, er enghraifft IBM, Intel neuHewlett-Packard, ynghyd â’r sectorcyhoeddus a’r prifysgolion i ddatblygu’rganolfan.

The nucleus of the idea was to develop anadvanced IT skills centre to fill the huge gapthat this experienced man saw in the skillsprovision in Wales. His argument was thatwe would never attract large technologicalcompanies to Wales without investing inspecialist IT skills. Such a centre would senda clear message to the IT sector on ourambition and seriousness about developingthis sector. The idea was to draw in a largecompany as a partner in the project, forexample IBM, Intel or Hewlett-Packard,along with the public sector and theuniversities to develop the centre.

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Yr oedd y syniad yn apelio ataf ac, wrth imidrafod sgiliau gyda phobl fusneslwyddiannus, y diffyg sgiliau uwch yngNghymru a godai yn aml iawn wrth drafodcynlluniau’r cwmni i ddatblygu ymhellach.Yr oeddwn yn hoffi’r syniad o sefydlu rhano’r ganolfan sgiliau uwch hon rywle yngnghanolbarth Cymru, fel rhan o rwydwaithehangach. Byddai hefyd yn ffordd o ddenuswyddi i’r ardaloedd gwledig ac o gadw poblifanc dalentog yn yr ardaloedd hynny.

The idea appealed to me and, as I discussedskills with successful business people, thelack of advanced skills in Wales came upfrequently in discussing the company’s plansto develop further. I liked the idea ofestablishing part of this centre for advancedskills somewhere in mid Wales, as part of amore extensive network. It would also be away of attracting jobs to rural areas and ofkeeping talented young people in those areas.

Ysgrifennais bapur byr ar y syniad gan alw’rprosiect yn ‘Canolfan Cenedlaethol ar gyferSgiliau TG Uwch’. Hyd yn hyn, nid yw’rsyniad wedi cydio. Pam felly?

I wrote a short paper on the idea, calling theproject ‘the National Centre for Advanced ITSkills’. So far, the idea has not caught on.Why?

Mae’n bosibl fod nifer o wendidau yn ycynllun ac na fyddai’n gweithio. Ymateb uncwmni o ymgynghorwyr oedd nad oeddwnwedi gwneud fy ngwaith cartref ac nad oedddigon o ddadansoddi y tu ôl i’r cynnig. Digonteg. Fodd bynnag, yr hyn sydd yn fy mhoeniyw nad oes neb wedi cynnig unrhyw bethgwell, â’r un lefel o uchelgais agweledigaeth. Felly, a ydym yn anelu’nddigon uchel yng Nghymru? A ydym ynedrych yn ddigon pell i’r dyfodol?

It is possible that there were manyweaknesses in the plan and that it would notwork. The response of one company ofconsultants was that I had not done myhomework and that there was insufficientanalysis behind the proposal. Fair enough.However, I am concerned that no-one hasproposed anything better, with the same levelof ambition and vision. Therefore, are weaiming high enough in Wales? Are welooking far enough into the future?

Are we asking the right questions onupgrading our skills base? Not what skills dowe need today, but what skills will Walesneed in 10 years’ time? When will we start tofocus on the sector that we should betargeting for special support and growth?Surely, we should be doing more now togrow our creative industries—IT is just oneexample—and to develop the requisite skillsto feed that sector.

A ydym yn gofyn y cwestiynau iawn amuwchraddio ein sgiliau? Nid pa sgiliau syddarnom eu hangen heddiw, ond pa sgiliau fyddar Gymru eu hangen ymhen 10 mlynedd?Pryd y dechreuwn ganolbwyntio ar y sector ydylem fod yn ei thargedu o ran cefnogaeth athwf arbennig? Oni ddylem fod yn gwneudrhagor yn awr i ehangu ein diwydiannaucreadigol—un enghraifft yn unig yw TG—aci ddatblygu’r sgiliau angenrheidiol i fwydo’rsector hwnnw?

12:25 p.m.

I was a political speechwriter for almostthree years. I tired of repeating the sameaspirational slogans about the need to build ahigh-wage, high-skill, high-value economy.The politicians who delivered those speechesmust have been even more tired of saying thesame old lines year after year, with no senseof progress towards that distant goal.

Yr oeddwn yn ysgrifennwr areithiaugwleidyddol am bron i dair blynedd. Blinaisar ailadrodd yr un sloganau uchelgeisiolynghylch yr angen i adeiladu economi âchyflogau uchel, sgiliau uchel a gwerthuchel. Rhaid bod y gwleidyddion agyflwynodd yr areithiau hynny wedi blino’nfwy hyd yn oed ar orfod dweud yr un henlinellau flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn, hebunrhyw ymdeimlad o gynnydd tuag at y nod

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pellennig hwnnw.

When do those lines and slogans stop beingaspirations and start becoming a reality inWales? Last night I read the report of theWales skills taskforce. It is a good, sound,report. Its key finding is:

Pryd mae’r llinellau a’r sloganau hynny ynpeidio â bod yn ddyheadau ac yn dechraubod yn realiti yng Nghymru? Neithiwrdarllenais adroddiad tasglu sgiliau Cymru.Mae’n adroddiad da, cadarn. Ei ganfyddiadallweddol yw:

‘A sustained effort is needed to improveWales’s performance on skills development.’

‘Mae angen ymdrech gynaliadwy i wellaperfformiad Cymru o ran datblygu sgiliau.’

It goes on to list all the familiar indicators,which show the extent to which Wales islagging behind the rest of the UK, let alonethe rest of the developed world, in terms ofskills and qualifications.

 ymlaen i restru’r holl ddangosyddioncyfarwydd, sydd yn dangos i ba raddau y maeCymru yn llusgo ar ôl gweddill y DU, hebsôn am weddill y byd datblygedig, o ransgiliau a chymwysterau.

How often must we read this all too familiarmessage about what must be done? Whenwill we read reports that note, ‘Wales hasmade massive progress in upgrading its skillsbase’? Maybe a national centre for advancedIT skills is not the answer. It maybe part ofthe answer. However, we have to aim high,as they did 15 years ago in Bangalore, if weare to make a real difference in this area.

Pa mor aml y mae’n rhaid inni ddarllen yneges gyfarwydd hon am yr hyn sydd ynrhaid ei wneud? Pryd byddwn yn darllenadroddiadau sydd yn nodi, ‘Gwnaeth Cymrugynnydd aruthrol wrth uwchraddio ei chronfasgiliau’? Efallai nad canolfan genedlaethol argyfer sgiliau TG uwch yw’r ateb. Gall fod ynrhan o’r ateb. Fodd bynnag, rhaid innianelu’n uchel, fel y gwnaethant 15 mlyneddyn ôl ym Mangalore, os ydym am wneudgwahaniaeth gwirioneddol yn y maes hwn.

Let us be ambitious, visionary anduncompromising in our determination tomake a difference, because I do not want tosee another politician standing here, or in thenew building in five years’ time, repeatingwhat I am saying now about the vitalimportance of upgrading our skills base.

Gadewch inni fod yn uchelgeisiol, ynweledigaethol ac yn ddigyfaddawd yn einpenderfyniad i wneud gwahaniaeth,oherwydd nid wyf am weld gwleidydd arallyn sefyll yma, neu yn yr adeilad newyddymhen pum mlynedd, yn ailadrodd yr hyn addywedaf yn awr am bwysigrwydd hanfodoluwchraddio ein cronfa sgiliau.

Mick Bates: I would like to consider aparticular aspect of upgrading our skills that Ithink is achievable in Wales. In Novemberlast year the Assembly discussed theinformation age and the skills we will need totake advantage of it. We heard from theRNIB that 75 per cent of blind and partiallysighted people in the UK are unemployed.We also heard from them that newtechnology and appropriate skills trainingcan open doors to people with visualimpairment into the world of work. Newtechnology that turns letters on computerscreens into sound or Braille does this.

Mick Bates: Hoffwn ystyried agweddbenodol ar uwchraddio ein sgiliau y credaf ygellir ei chyflawni yng Nghymru. YnNhachwedd y llynedd trafododd y Cynulliadyr oes wybodaeth a’r sgiliau y bydd euhangen arnom i fanteisio arni. Clywsom ganSefydliad Cenedlaethol Brenhinol y Deillionfod 75 y cant o bobl ddall neu rannol ddall yny DU yn ddi-waith. Clywsom ganddynt hefydy gall technoleg newydd a hyfforddiantsgiliau priodol agor y drysau ar gyfer poblsydd â nam ar eu golwg i fyd gwaith. Gwneirhyn gan dechnoleg newydd sydd yn troillythrennau ar sgrîn cyfrifiadur yn swn neu’n

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People with visual impairment can play a fullpart and increase their skills through thesetechnological developments. Last weekAssembly Members received a pack from theRNID considering the possibilities of newdigital technology for people with hearingimpairment. Such technology and the skillsto use it fully could revolutionise the lives ofdeaf people in Wales. As a largely visualmedium, the possibilities of the internet fordeaf people are extensive. The RNID iscalling for the provision of relevant trainingand unmetered internet access for deafpeople. We should look at these factorsbecause this is something the Assemblycould achieve to upgrade our skills base.

Braille. Gall pobl â nam ar eu golwg chwaraerhan lawn a chynyddu eu sgiliau drwy’rdatblygiadau technolegol hyn. Yr wythnosdiwethaf derbyniodd Aelodau’r Cynulliadbecyn gan Sefydliad Cenedlaethol BrenhinolPobl Fyddar yn ystyried posibiliadautechnoleg digidol newydd i bobl â nam ar euclyw. Gallai technoleg o’r fath a’r sgiliau i’wdefnyddio’n llawn chwyldroi bywydau poblfyddar yng Nghymru. Fel cyfrwng gweledol iraddau helaeth, mae posibiliadau’rrhyngrwyd ar gyfer pobl fyddar yn helaeth.Geilw Sefydliad Cenedlaethol BrenhinolPobl Fyddar am ddarparu hyfforddiantperthnasol a mynediad ar y rhyngrwyd i boblfyddar. Dylem edrych ar y ffactorau hyn ganei fod yn rhywbeth y gallai’r Cynulliad eigyflawni i uwchraddio ein sgiliau.

Gareth Jones: Hoffwn ddiolch i Delyth amganiatáu imi gyfrannu i’r ddadl. Diolch iddiam ddewis pwnc sydd o bwys allweddol i niyng Nghymru. Hoffwn gydnabod ei sylwadaua diffuantrwydd ei neges.

Gareth Jones: I thank Delyth for allowingme to contribute to the debate. I also thankher for choosing a subject that is of crucialimportance to us in Wales. I acknowledgeher comments and the sincerity of hermessage.

Yr oedd darllen adroddiad Sgiliau DyfodolCymru yn fater o dristwch a syndod i bob unohonom sydd yn ymwneud ag addysg,hyfforddiant a chyflogaeth yng Nghymru.Mae darganfyddiadau a chasgliadau’radroddiad yn ysgubol eu beirniadaeth arwendidau ein gweithlu cyn belled ag y maelefelau sgiliau yn y cwestiwn. Yr oedd hi’nanodd derbyn ein bod ni yng Nghymruymhell y tu ôl i wledydd eraill y byd, a bodlefelau sgiliau ein pobl yn eu gwneud ynanghymwys i ymgymryd â swyddi technolegfodern.

Reading the Future Skills Wales report was amatter of sadness and surprise to all of usinvolved in education, training andemployment in Wales. The report’s findingsand conclusions are extremely critical of theweaknesses of our workforce in terms ofskills levels. It was difficult to accept that wein Wales are far behind other countries of theworld, and that our people’s skills levelsmake them unfit to undertake moderntechnology jobs.

Hoffwn wneud dau sylw. Mae’r datblygiadaudiweddaraf a ddaeth yn sgîl yr adroddiad ganSgiliau Dyfodol Cymru i’w croesawu gan eubod yn arwydd ein bod bellach ynymwybodol, o leiaf, o’n ffaeleddau yn ymaes ac o’r angen i weithredu a gwella’rsefyllfa. Mae a wnelo sefydlu’r fforwmymchwil Sgiliau Dyfodol Cymru, y CyngorCenedlaethol dros Addysg a Hyfforddiant,adroddiad ac argymhellion tasglu sgiliauCymru a sefydlu uned sgiliau’r dyfodol âdatblygu hyfforddiant sgiliau yn y gweithle.Mae’r rhain i gyd yn arwyddion pendant oddeffroad ac ymrwymiad i wella a chodi

I want to make two points. The most recentdevelopments following the Future SkillsWales report are to be welcomed becausethey signify that we are at least aware now ofour deficiencies in this area and of the needto act to improve the situation. Theestablishment of the research forum FutureSkills Wales, the National Council forEducation and Training, the report andrecommendations of the Wales skillstaskforce and establishing the future skillsunit are all concerned with developing skillstraining in the workplace. These are alldefinite signs of an awakening and a

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lefelau ein sgiliau. commitment to improving and raising ourskills levels.

Yr her yn hyn oll, yn enwedig o ystyried ybuddsoddiad ariannol gan y Cynulliad, fyddsicrhau bod cydgysylltu a chydweithioeffeithiol yn digwydd. Mawr obeithiaf nafaglwn ein gilydd drwy ddyblyguymdrechion a blaengareddau. Bydd yn rhaidi’r Cynulliad ddangos rheolaeth ac arweiniadclir yn hyn.

The challenge in all this, especially given thefinancial investment by the Assembly, willbe to ensure that there is effective co-ordination and co-operation. I greatly hopethat we will not trip each other up byduplicating efforts and initiatives. TheAssembly must show control and clearleadership in this.

Mae dadl Delyth yn amserol o ystyried yrholl sylw a roddwyd ddoe i ganlyniadauTGAU a Safon Uwch yn ein hysgolion. Yrhyn sydd yn hynod o drawiadol ac yncrisialu’r broblem yw nad oedd cyfeiriad atna chydnabyddiaeth o gyraeddiadaudisgyblion yn y maes galwedigaethol, sef ycymhwyster galwedigaethol cenedlaetholcyffredinol. Nid oedd cyfeiriad atynt ac nichynhwyswyd hwy yn y canlyniadau.

Delyth’s debate is timely when one considersall the attention that was given yesterday toGCSE and A-level results in our schools.What is remarkably striking and crystallisesthe problem is that there was no reference toor acknowledgement of pupils’ achievementsin the vocational area, that is, the generalnational vocational qualification. There wasno reference to them and they were notincluded in the results.

Mae hynny’n arwydd o’r ffordd bell syddgennym i fynd i sicrhau parch cyfartal igyraeddiadau academaidd a galwedigaethol.Dyna pam fod datganiad y Gweinidog drosGyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedauynghylch £600,000 o fuddsoddiad yflwyddyn nesaf i sefydlu cynllun peilotbagloriaeth Gymreig mor dderbyniol a phell-gyrhaeddol.

That is an indication of the long way that wehave to go to ensure equal respect foracademic and vocational qualifications. Thatis why the statement by the Minister forFinance, Local Government andCommunities regarding the investment of£600,000 next year to establish a pilotscheme for the Welsh baccalaureate is sowelcome and far-reaching.

Bydd y cymhwyster hwn yn pontio’rgagendor sydd yn bodoli ar hyn o bryd rhwngyr elfennau academaidd a galwedigaethol.Bydd yn tanlinellu nid yn unig bwysigrwyddgwybodaeth a deallusrwydd ond hefyd ysgiliau sydd eu hangen i gymhwyso’relfennau hynny yn y meysyddgalwedigaethol.

This qualification will bridge the current gapbetween the academic and vocationalelements. It will underline not only theimportance of knowledge and understandingbut also the skills needed to apply thoseelements in vocational areas.

Bydd sefydlu’r fagloriaeth yn rhoi Cymru ary blaen ym myd addysg a hyfforddiant ôl-16.Yr wyf yn hyderus y bydd y cymhwyster a’ifframwaith yn cyfrannu’n helaeth at graiddyr her sydd ymhlyg yn ein dadl heddiw, sefcodi lefel sgiliau ein pobl yng Nghymru.

The establishment of the baccalaureate willplace Wales at the forefront of the world ofpost-16 education. I am confident that thequalification and its framework willcontribute substantially to the core of thechallenge that is implicit in today’s debate,namely to raise the skills level of the peopleof Wales.

Jonathan Morgan: Like other speakers, Ithank Delyth for bringing this subject to theagenda today. I will focus on three points.

Jonathan Morgan: Fel y siaradwyr eraill,hoffwn ddiolch i Delyth am roi’r pwnc hwnar yr agenda heddiw. Canolbwyntiaf ar dri

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First, the information and communicationstechnology revolution to which Delythalluded. The Assembly has a framework, astarting point. The work that has beenundertaken by members of the Pre-16Education Committee is by no means adefinitive piece of work. However, it is astarting point for providing the strategy thatwill ensure that we get the technology intothe schools and that we get the skills to theyoung people and teachers who need them.When one travels around schools in theconstituency and further afield, one cannothelp but notice the poor state oftechnological equipment. Some schools arestill using BBC computers, which Iremember from my A-level days, about sevenyears ago. The difference that exists betweensome schools in certain areas in levels oftechnology is amazing. It is all very well tosay that you want to provide e-mail addressesto every pupil in schools throughout Wales,but unless they have the technology to usethose e-mail addresses and the ability to usee-mail and the internet, there is little point ingiving that to students.

phwynt. Yn gyntaf, y chwyldro technoleggwybodaeth a chyfathrebu y cyfeirioddDelyth ato. Mae gan y Cynulliad fframwaith,sydd yn fan cychwyn. Nid yw’r gwaith agyflawnodd aelodau’r Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn16 yn ddarn o waith diffiniol ar unrhywgyfrif. Fodd bynnag, mae’n fan cychwyn argyfer darparu’r strategaeth a fydd yn sicrhauein bod yn cael y dechnoleg i mewn i’rysgolion a rhoi’r sgiliau i’r bobl ifanc a’rathrawon sydd eu hangen. Wrth deithio ogwmpas ysgolion yn yr etholaeth a thu hwnt,ni ellir ond sylwi ar gyflwr gwael cyfarpartechnolegol. Mae rhai ysgolion yn dal iddefnyddio cyfrifiaduron BBC, a gofiaf o’radeg pan oeddwn i’n astudio ar gyfer fySafon Uwch, tua saith mlynedd yn ôl. Mae’rgwahaniaeth sydd yn bodoli rhwng rhaiysgolion mewn rhai ardaloedd o ran lefeltechnoleg yn rhyfeddol. Digon hawdd dweudeich bod am ddarparu cyfeiriad e-bost i bobdisgybl mewn ysgolion ledled Cymru, ondoni fydd ganddynt y dechnoleg iddefnyddio’r cyfeiriadau e-bost hynny a’rgallu i ddefnyddio’r e-bost a’r rhyngrwyd,nid oes llawer o bwynt rhoi hynny i fyfyrwyr.

ICT provision is fragmented across Wales.There have been some interesting examples,at local education authority level, of centresof excellence and pioneering projects, butthat has not been the case across the nation.We need to be ambitious and we need a co-ordinated strategy to ensure that ICT skillsare raised among our young people. Thesecond skill that we need to address quicklyis that related to modern foreign languages. Itis disgraceful that, as part of the EuropeanUnion, we have one of the worst records inteaching—and therefore students’ learning—modern foreign languages. If we expect ouryoung people to work elsewhere in theEuropean Union, further afield than Wales,we need to equip them with the languageskills that they would be expected to use. Asone of those positive nations within theEuropean Union, we should be doing allpossible to equip our young people with thisparticular skill. In recent decades, we havebeen doing our young people a disservice,because there have been opportunities forpeople to go to live and work on themainland of Europe, but have not been able

Mae’r ddarpariaeth TGCh yn dameidiogledled Cymru. Cafwyd rhai enghreifftiaudiddorol, ar lefel awdurdod addysg lleol, oganolfannau rhagoriaeth a phrosiectauarloesol, ond ni ddigwyddodd hynny ledled ywlad. Rhaid inni fod yn uchelgeisiol ac maeangen strategaeth gydlynus arnom i sicrhau ycynyddir sgiliau TGCh ymhlith ein poblifanc. Yr ail sgil sydd angen inni roi sylwiddi ar fyrder yw’r un sydd yn ymwneud agieithoedd tramor modern. Mae’n warthus, felrhan o’r Undeb Ewropeaidd, bod gennym yrhanes o fod yn un o’r gwaethaf amaddysgu—ac felly myfyrwyr yn dysgu—ieithoedd tramor modern. Os disgwyliwn i’npobl ifanc weithio mewn mannau eraill yn yrUndeb Ewropeaidd, y tu hwnt i Gymru, maeangen inni roi’r sgiliau ieithyddol iddynt ydisgwylid iddynt eu defnyddio. Fel un o’rgwledydd positif hynny o fewn yr UndebEwropeaidd, dylem fod yn gwneud popeth ofewn ein gallu i roi’r sgil benodol hon i’npobl ifanc. Yn ystod y degawdau diwethaf,gwnaethom dro gwael â’n pobl ifanc,oherwydd cafwyd cyfleoedd i bobl fynd ifyw a gweithio ar dir mawr Ewrop, ond ni

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to do so because of this lack of skill inmodern foreign languages.

allasant wneud hynny oherwydd y diffyg sgilhwn o ran ieithoedd tramor modern.

My third point relates to Gareth Jones’scomments about the baccalaureate. We mustnot, in recognising vocational qualifications,do anything that dumbs down academicexcellence in schools. Bringing in abaccalaureate would not do anything to raiseskills levels among our high achievers.

Mae fy nhrydydd pwynt yn berthnasol isylwadau Gareth Jones ynglyn â’rfagloriaeth. Rhaid inni beidio, wrthgydnabod cymwysterau galwedigaethol, âgwneud unrhywbeth sydd yn glasdwreiddiorhagoriaeth academaidd mewn ysgolion. Nifyddai cyflwyno bagloriaeth yn gwneudunrhyw beth i godi lefelau sgiliau ymhlith eincyflawnwyr uchel.

12:35 p.m.

I know that you want to address those at thebottom end of the scale, and we must do that,but we must also ensure academic excellencefor those who go on to our excellentuniversities and take up professional posts,whether in university or industry, throughoutWales. We must not dumb down and thusdiminish our students’ ability to succeed andcompete at university level. I welcome theopportunity to contribute to this debate.

Gwn eich bod am roi sylw i’r rheini arwaelod y raddfa, a rhaid inni wneud hynny,ond rhaid inni hefyd sicrhau rhagoriaethacademaidd i’r rheini a aiff ymlaen i’nprifysgolion rhagorol ac sydd yn derbynswyddi proffesiynol, pa un ai mewn prifysgolneu mewn diwydiant, ledled Cymru. Rhaidinni beidio â glastwreiddio ac felly leihaugallu ein myfyrwyr i lwyddo a chystadlu arlefel prifysgol. Croesawaf y cyfle i gyfrannuat y ddadl hon.

Alun Pugh rose— Alun Pugh a gododd—

The Deputy Presiding Officer: You cannotintervene now, Alun, though you may be ableto do so during the Minister’s speech, if sheallows it.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Ni chewch ymyrryd ynawr, Alun, er y gallwch wneud hynny ynystod araith y Gweinidog , os caniatâ hynny.

The Minister for Education and LifelongLearning (Jane Davidson): Thank you,Delyth, for bringing this debate before ustoday. It is a timely debate, because we are inthe middle of the consultation on the skillstaskforce’s report. It would be useful fortoday’s contributions to be fed into thatconsultation, so that those who will considerits results, which will include the members ofthe Education and Lifelong LearningCommittee, can consider them. I am sure thatthe members of the Economic DevelopmentCommittee will also consider theconsultation, in connection with the nationaleconomic development strategy.

Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu GydolOes (Jane Davidson): Diolch, Delyth, amgyflwyno’r ddadl hon ger ein bron heddiw.Mae’n ddadl amserol, gan ein bod yngnghanol yr ymgynghoriad ar adroddiad ytasglu sgiliau. Byddai’n ddefnyddiol bwydocyfraniadau heddiw i’r ymgynghoriadhwnnw, fel y gall y rheini a ystyria eiganlyniadau, a fydd yn cynnwys aelodau’rPwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes, euhystyried. Yr wyf yn siwr yr ystyriaaelodau’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd yrymgynghoriad hefyd, mewn cysylltiad â’rstrategaeth datblygu economaiddgenedlaethol.

If Wales is to have any chance of raising itsgross domestic product per capita to the UKlevel, improving our levels of economic

Os yw Cymru i gael unrhyw gyfle i godi eichynnyrch mewnwladol crynswyth y pen ilefel y DU, gwella ein lefelau o weithgaredd

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activity and increasing incomes and personalprosperity, we must increase our skills levels.A similar discussion took place inWestminster yesterday and in the Educationand Lifelong Learning Committee meeting.So it is a timely issue. It is worth remindingMembers that we are taking forward theground-breaking Future Skills Wales project.As an Assembly, we think that research isessential to develop effective policies. Theproject has given us a wealth of data, but weare taking that further and drilling down intoparticular sectors. Future Skills Walesrecently published 10 such sectoral studies.Those include reports on agriculture andfarm enterprise, tourism and the media andcultural industries as well as manufacturingsectors. We have also established the Walesskills unit, to further develop the skillsresearch programme.

economaidd a chynyddu incwm a ffyniantpersonol, rhaid inni gynyddu ein lefelausgiliau. Cafwyd trafodaeth debyg yn SanSteffan ddoe ac yng nghyfarfod y PwyllgorAddysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes. Felly mae’nfater amserol. Mae’n werth atgoffa Aelodauein bod yn bwrw ymlaen â phrosiect SgiliauDyfodol Cymru sydd yn torri tir newydd. FelCynulliad, credwn fod ymchwil yn hanfodol iddatblygu polisïau effeithiol. Rhoddodd yprosiect gyfoeth o ddata inni, ond awn âhynny ymhellach gan durio i mewn i raisectorau penodol. Cyhoeddodd SgiliauDyfodol Cymru 10 astudiaeth sectoraidd o’rfath yn ddiweddar. Mae’r rheini yn cynnwysadroddiadau am amaethyddiaeth a menterffermydd, twristiaeth a’r cyfryngau adiwydiannau diwylliannol yn ogystal âsectorau gweithgynhyrchu. Sefydlwyd unedsgiliau Cymru hefyd, er mwyn datblygu’rrhaglen ymchwil sgiliau ymhellach.

The skills taskforce, under Brian Connolly, isgiving a strategic dimension to Future SkillsWales’s findings. Brian Connolly and histeam presented the report to us in theEducation and Lifelong Learning Committeemeeting yesterday. It was interesting that,when I asked them what they considered tobe the three key issues for us to consider intaking this consultation forward, they saidthat the first was the entitlement to freeeducation and training provision at nationalvocational qualification level 3 for youngpeople and adults. That is ambitious. You areall right to suggest that we need to setambitious targets. There will be a largefinancial cost to that, but it is important thatwe look at remedying what is a majorproblem in terms of our skills base.

Rhydd y tasglu sgiliau, o dan BrianConnolly, ddimensiwn strategol iganfyddiadau Sgiliau Dyfodol Cymru.Cyflwynodd Brian Connolly a’i dîm yradroddiad inni yng nghyfarfod y PwyllgorAddysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes ddoe. Yr oeddyn ddiddorol, pan ofynnais iddynt beth yrystyrient oedd y tri mater allweddol inni euhystyried wrth ddatblygu’r ymgynghoriadhwn ymhellach, dywedasant mai’r cyntafoedd yr hawl i addysg am ddim a darpariaethhyfforddiant cymhwyster galwedigaetholcenedlaethol lefel 3 i bobl ifanc ac oedolion.Mae hynny’n uchelgeisiol. Yr ydych i gyd yniawn i awgrymu bod angen inni osodtargedau uchelgeisiol. Bydd cost ariannolhynny yn fawr, ond mae’n bwysig inniedrych ar unioni’r hyn sydd yn broblemsylweddol o ran ein sgiliau.

Secondly, the skills taskforce identified theneed for better management support, whetherthrough a management centre or by othermeans. The anecdotal evidence is that 80 percent of people believe in managementtraining, but only 20 per cent of managersfeel that they need such training. That tells ussomething about how people feel abouttraining. The third issue was learningmaintenance allowances. We propose toallocate £6.5 million in 2002 and £11.5

Yn ail, nododd y tasglu sgiliau yr angen amgymorth rheoli gwell, pa un ai drwy ganolfanreoli neu drwy ryw ddull arall. Y dystiolaethanecdotaidd yw bod 80 y cant o bobl yncredu mewn hyfforddi rheolwyr, ond dimond 20 y cant o’r rheolwyr sydd yn teimlobod angen hyfforddiant o’r fath arnynt.Dywed hynny rywbeth wrthym am sut yteimla pobl ynghylch hyfforddiant. Y trydyddmater oedd lwfansau cynhaliaeth dysgu.Bwriadwn ddyrannu £6.5 miliwn yn 2002 ac

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million in 2003 to help 16 to 18-year-olds tostay in education.

£11.5 miliwn yn 2003 i helpu’r rhai rhwng16 a 18 mlwydd oed i aros mewn addysg.

We must remember that quick fixes are notpossible. It takes time to acquire skills. Ourjob is to help Wales through developing theright infrastructure for delivery. I accept thepoint about ensuring that duplication doesnot occur. Good progress is being made inestablishing the new National Council forEducation and Training in Wales and I amconfident that it will hit the ground runningnext April. The council, which will be thebiggest Assembly sponsored public body,will be responsible for improving skills forthe over 16s. Its community consortia willmake a valuable contribution at local level.

Rhaid inni gofio nad yw darpariaethau brysyn bosibl. Cymer amser i gaffael sgiliau. Einswyddogaeth yw helpu Cymru drwyddatblygu’r isadeiladedd cywir i gyflawnihyn. Derbyniaf y pwynt ynghylch sicrhau nadyw dyblygu’n digwydd. Gwneir cynnydd dadrwy sefydlu’r corff newydd CyngorCenedlaethol Cymru dros Addysg aHyfforddiant ac yr wyf yn hyderus y bydd yndechrau ar ei waith fis Ebrill nesaf. Bydd ycyngor, sef y corff cyhoeddus mwyaf anoddir gan y Cynulliad, yn gyfrifol am wellasgiliau’r rhai dros 16 oed. Bydd ei gonsortiacymunedol yn gwneud cyfraniad gwerthfawrar lefel leol.

We have already taken action on one issue inadvance of the skills taskforce’s majorrecommendations, because employers inWales were crying out for a measure toenable those over the age of 24 to have work-based training. We announced the entirelynew, Wales-specific, modern skills diplomafor adults, with an Assembly budgetprovision of nearly £10 million over the nextthree years.

Yr ydym eisoes wedi gweithredu ar un materrhag blaen i brif argymhellion y tasglusgiliau, am fod cyflogwyr yng Nghymru yngweiddi am fesur i alluogi’r rheini dros 24oed gael hyfforddiant yn y gwaith.Cyhoeddwyd y diploma sgiliau modernhollol newydd, yn benodol i Gymru, ar gyferoedolion, gyda darpariaeth yng nghyllideb yCynulliad o bron i £10 miliwn dros y tairblynedd nesaf.

We will begin to launch pilot schemes nextApril. This is a radical departure fromexisting programmes, and I am confident thatit will help to give Wales a competitive edge.I have also announced a new skillsdevelopment fund of £500,000 to supportinnovative projects put forward by a range ofpartner bodies and employers. Thesuggestion about a national IT learningcentre could well be the type of project thatwould be eligible for that sort of funding.

Byddwn yn cychwyn ar gynlluniau peilot fisEbrill nesaf. Mae hyn yn newid sylfaenol oraglenni presennol, ac yr wyf yn hyderus ybydd yn helpu i roi mantais gystadleuol iGymru. Cyhoeddais hefyd gronfa datblygusgiliau newydd o £500,000 i gynorthwyoprosiectau arloesol a gynigiwyd gan ystod ogyrff partneriaid a chyflogwyr. Gallai’rawgrym am ganolfan dysgu TG genedlaetholfod y math o brosiect a fyddai’n gymwys amy math hwnnw o gyllid.

We are also undertaking other work in termsof developing a basic skills strategy forWales: introducing new key skillsqualifications in schools, colleges andvocational routes, and providing £16 millionfor ICT facilities. I welcome Jonathan’scontribution, which builds on work that heand Huw Lewis took forward in theEducation and Lifelong Learning Committee.Members will be aware that, yesterday,Edwina Hart announced an extra £700,000

Yr ydym hefyd yn ymgymryd â gwaith arallo ran datblygu strategaeth sgiliau sylfaenol argyfer Cymru: cyflwyno cymwysterau sgiliauallweddol newydd mewn ysgolion, colegau allwybrau galwedigaethol, a darparu £16miliwn ar gyfer adnoddau TGCh. Croesawafgyfraniad Jonathan, sydd yn adeiladu arwaith a ddatblygodd ef a Huw Lewis yn yPwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes. ByddAelodau yn ymwybodol i Edwina Hart, ddoe,gyhoeddi £700,000 yn ychwanegol ar gyfer

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for the major agenda for expanding ICT inschools. We are also working with lottery-based provision. A huge amount of moneyhas been invested in training activities basedaround ICT learning centres. This is a big,important agenda for Wales, which is alsorelevant to the work of the EconomicDevelopment Committee.

yr agenda fawr o ehangu TGCh mewnysgolion. Yr ydym hefyd yn gweithio gydadarpariaeth y loteri. Buddsoddwyd swmanferthol o arian mewn gweithgareddauhyfforddi sydd yn seiliedig ar ganolfannaudysgu TGCh. Mae hon yn agenda bwysig,fawr i Gymru, sydd hefyd yn berthnasol iwaith y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd.

We are reviewing work-based learning foradults, and are working closely with theEmployment Service on New Deal issues,particularly in considering whether we canaccess European structural funds, forexample by extending the skills developmentelement of the programme. It is importantthat we consider how we can use Objective 1money, which is directly targeted at a poorskills base to try to increase thoseopportunities.

Yr ydym yn adolygu dysgu yn y gwaith argyfer oedolion, ac yn gweithio’n agos gyda’rGwasanaeth Cyflogi ar faterion y FargenNewydd, yn arbennig wrth ystyried a allwngael mynediad i gronfeydd strwythurolEwropeaidd, er enghraifft drwy ymestynelfen datblygu sgiliau y rhaglen. Mae’nbwysig inni ystyried sut y gallwnddefnyddio arian Amcan 1, a dargedwyd ynuniongyrchol at y sylfaen sgiliau gwael igeisio cynyddu’r cyfleoedd hynny.

Mick rightly made the point about ensuringthat we use technology to promote equalopportunities in access to learning and skillsdevelopment. It is fascinating to think of theopportunities that new technology now offerspeople with visual or hearing impairments,which were not available in the past. TheUniversity for Industry and the DigitalCollege gave an interesting presentation tothe Committee yesterday, which displayedthe new ways of learning using newtechnology and television that we shouldharness fully in the skills debate.

Roedd Mick yn llygad ei le pan wnaeth ypwynt ynglyn â sicrhau y defnyddiwndechnoleg i hyrwyddo cyfleoedd cyfartalwrth gael mynediad i ddysgu a datblygusgiliau. Mae’n ddiddorol iawn meddwl am ycyfleoedd y cynigia’r dechnoleg newydderbyn hyn i bobl â nam ar eu golwg neu ar euclyw, nad oeddynt ar gael yn y gorffennol.Gwnaethpwyd cyflwyniad diddorol i’rPwyllgor ddoe gan y Brifysgol i Ddiwydianta’r Coleg Digidol, a ddangosodd y ffyrddnewydd o ddysgu drwy ddefnyddio’rdechnoleg newydd a theledu y dylem eudefnyddio’n llawn yn y ddadl sgiliau.

I welcome new ideas and will considercarefully the points raised in this debate. Wewill ensure that a copy of the record of thisdebate is sent to Brian Connolly. We arealready working in some areas that we haveidentified as Wales-specific areas that needaction. It is important that speechwriters ofthe future are not the only ones looking tocreate high-income viable jobs for thefuture—we must not merely talk about it. Ido not want to be another politician standinghere in five years’ time saying the samethings. We have a positive agenda, to which Iknow that all Members are signed up. I thankyou all for your contributions today.

Croesawaf syniadau newydd ac ystyriaf ynofalus y pwyntiau a godwyd yn y ddadl hon.Sicrhawn yr anfonir copi o gofnod y ddadlhon at Brian Connolly. Yr ydym eisoes yngweithio mewn rhai meysydd a nodwyd felmeysydd penodedig i Gymru y mae angengweithredu arnynt. Mae’n bwysig nadysgrifenwyr areithiau’r dyfodol yw’r unig raisydd yn ceisio creu swyddi ymarferol incwmuchel ar gyfer y dyfodol—rhaid inni roi’rgorau i siarad am y peth yn unig. Nid wyf yndymuno bod yn wleidydd arall yn sefyll ymaymhen pum mlynedd yn dweud yr un pethau.Mae gennym agenda bwysig, a gwn fod yrholl Aelodau yn ymrwymedig iddi. Diolchafichi oll am eich cyfraniadau heddiw.

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The Deputy Presiding Officer: That bringsour proceedings today to a close.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Daw hyn â thrafodionheddiw i ben.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 12.42 p.m.The session ended at 12.42 p.m.