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CONSTITUTION OF KENYAREVIEW COMMISSIONI Kencom House, 2nd Floor P.O.Box 10526,Tel: 343601/2 Fax: 343603 Nairobi .Email: CRCkenya@nbnet.co.ke,Website:www.kenyaconstitution.org----------===---:_:_------=----_:____-~--=-----

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LECTURE BY PROF. ALI MAZRUI ATK.I.C.C. ON 23.08.01

IF AFRICAN POLITICS ARE ETHNIC­PRONE CAN AFRICAN

CONSTITUTION BE ETHNIC- PROOF

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LECTURE BY PROF. ALI lVLL\ZRUIAT KI.C.C. ON 23.08.01

IF AFRICAN POLITICS ARE ETHNIC-PRONE,CAN AFRICAN CONSTITUTION BE ETHNIC-PROOF

PRESENT:

Prof. Yash Pal GhaiDr. Oki Ooko OrnbakaMrs. Abida A1i-AroniNlr. Paul M. WambuaHon. Mrs. Phoebe AsiyoDr. M A. SwazuriMr. Abubakar Zein AbubakarDr. Charles MarangaMrs. Alice YanoMs. Salome Wairimu MuigaiMs. Kavetsa AdagalaDr. Wanjiku KabiraMr. Ahamed Issack HassanNlr. John Mutakha KanguDr. Abdirizak Arale NunowMr. Domiziano RatanyaMs. Nancy BarazaBishop Bernard NjorogePastor Zablon AyongaMr. Githu MuigaiMr. Ibrahim Lethome AsmanMr. Isaac Lenao laDr. Mosonik arap Korir

ChairpersonVice-Chairperson

"Commissioner

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Com, Salome Muigai Chairing apologised to those present for the change of venue for the

lecture.

She introduce Prof Ali Mazrui who was born in Mombasa, Kenya, on February 24, 1933. He

is now Albert Schweitzer Professor in the Humanities and Director of the Institute of Global,

Cultural Studies at Binghamton University, He is Andrew D. White Professor-at-Large

Emeritus and Senior Scholar in African Studies at Cornell University, He was Ibn Khaldun

Professor-At-Large, Graduate School ofIslamic and Social Sciences, Leesburge, Virginia (1997

- 2000). He was also Walter Rodney Professor at the University of Guyana, Georgetown,

Guyana (1997 - 1998). Professor Mazrui obtained his BA with Distinction from Manchester

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Prof Mazrui has served on editorial boards of more than 20 international scholarly journals. Dr.

Mazrui's services to the Organisation of African Unity include membership of the Group of

Eminent Persons appointed in 1992 by the OAU Presidential Summit to explore the issues of

African Reparations for Enslavement and Colonisation.

She invited Prof. Ali Mazrui to give his speech.

Verbatim text of Prof. Ali Mazrui.

Thank you very much indeed, Madam Chair, I am very grateful to you for your very generous

introduction and I am greatly indebted to the Kenya Constitution Commission for this

opportunity to return to my country so soon after my last visit in July, 2001. I also greatly

appreciate the chance to make a contribution to the national dialogue concerning Kenya's

constitution future.

Before I do that and without anything in advance I would like to say something about Yash Ghai,

the Chairman of the Commission. I have known Yash Ghai from before Kenya became

independent. We were students together at Oxford University, shared the same stair case at

Nuffield College, Oxford and we became close friends. We later taught Kenyans and other East

Africans in the wider university of East Africa, he at the University of Dar es Salaam and I at

Makerere in Uganda. Later each went beyond East Africa, he to Britain and later to Hong Kong

and I to the United States. He and I are two Kenyans who for decades have had a choice to .

change citizenship, he to become British, I to become American. Both of us have remained

steadfast in our loyalty to Kenya.

Normally, our leaders do not always recognise loyalty to the country, only loyalty to themselves

but tor once I was proud of our leaders and of our country when Yash Ghai was appointed to

head the Constitution Commission. He is a man of integrity and I was proud of Yash Ghai that

he accepted the considerable financial loss incurred by accepting to serve Kenya in this capacity.

He never said that in public: I am telling you because I happen to know. Professors in Hong

Kong are paid much more highly than Professors in the United States - from my point of view,

unfortunately for those in the United States - and Yash Ghai agreed to serve Kenya when he was

about to receive a research grant of a couple of US million dollars in Hong Kong. Let us hope

the research grant will be renewed before he loses it altogether as he struggles with the stresses.~

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matters are regulated These are the two western democracies I know best because I have

actually lived in them for many years. The United States has a highly permissive legal system

on freedom of speech but more restrictive public opinion. The laws of the United States give

more freedom of speech than the laws of any other society on earth but freedom is restricted by

public opinion and sectors of public opinion. The United Kingdom, on the other hand, has a

more restrictive legal system but a more tolerant public opinion. When in my tele-vision series,

The Africans: A Triple Heritage, I accused Kaiser Aluminum, a multi national corporation, of

having exploited a developing country, Ghana, the multi national corporation threatened legal

action unless that accusation was deleted from the television series. We consulted the lawyers of

my television producers and I consulted my own personal lawyers as to whether Kaiser

Aluminum could stop me from accusing them of the exploitation of Ghana. The television series

was already done, it had not been shown in the United States: how did they know about it? It

had been shown in England: they knew about it, they wanted that to be deleted from the

showing in the United States. All the lawyers in the United States were unanimous Kaiser

Aluminum did not 'stand a chance under US. law, they did not stand a chance of forcing me to

delete my opinion from my television series. We therefore went ahead and showed the TV series

in the United States without deleting the accusation of exploitation. Kaiser decided discretion

was the better part of valour. They did not sue me. In the United States the law was on the side

of the open society In Kenya, on the other hand, the law of libel can be used to stop the flow of

information rather than to facilitate it. Libel law in Kenya can be an ally of censorship rather

than a partner of the open society

In a single week the courts of Kenya have twice intervened 011 the side of interrupting the flow of

information the case of President Moi's son and of the serialisation of Smith Hempstone

mernoirs. So the question for the Constitution Commission: does the future constitution of

Kenya need a Freedom of Information clause? Or are there alternative democratic means of

promoting the democratic goal of the open society? If the goals of democracy are the same

while the means for achieving them differ, are there African means of achieving sorne of these

goals, or even all of those goals, accountability of rulers, participation of the citizens, openness

of the society and greater social justice? So, constitution makers in Africa have to bear that in

mind how to keep the democratic goals constant while looking for democratic means more

appropriate to Africa.

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One ethnic check which has been suggested in countries like Nigeria - and indeed Kenya - is a

regionally-rotating presidency. Nigeria had heads of state coming repeatedly from the North.

One solution was a constitutional provision for regional or zonal rotation of the presidency so

that if the president has come from this region this time around, next time, should' the president

come from another? Moshood Abiola would have been an ideal rotation president without a

constitutional provision. Until him, in Nigeria every time they had election they had not only a

Northerner but a Northern Muslim and then in the 1993 elections, they had Moshood Abiola who

was indeed a Muslim but a Southerner. So it was the beginning of breaking the monopoly of that

convergence between Northerness and Muslimness but the soldiers did not allow him to become

president although the voters had voted for him. This particular gown I am wearing is partly a

tribute to him: it was given to me by him. I remember the last time I spoke to him: he called my

house in the United States, I was not there, my wife said "Ali is at Lincoln University,

Pennsylvania". So Moshood Abiola called Lincoln University and finally tracked me down. He

knew already the soldiers would not let him become president, he said "I am going to Nigeria to

become President". I used to call him Chief I said "Chief, what is going on?". He and I both

knew that the soldiers will not let him. I said "what is going on", he said "I will see you at the

inauguration.". It wastragic last words. He went to Nigeria, called a rally and declared himself

president, then he was imprisoned and as most of you know he spent the last years of his life in

detention. I did go to speak to President Abacha afterwards to try and get him released. Abacha

received me very politely but nothing happened. Now Nigeria has Olasegun Obassanjo, a 11011-

Muslim Southerner. He came to power as well substantially because of Muslim support in the

North. So in a way you still have a situation where if Muslims behaved in a united way in the

north, you could have almost perpetual Northern presidency. And so do you need a

constitutional provision to stop it? So far it has not been necessary because Muslims voted for

Olasegun Obassanjo voluntarily without a constitutional amendment

Another ethnic check which both Nigeria and Kenya have tried out is to require that the president

is not electible unless he or she has a minimum of multi provincial support. It is not enough that

. a head of state has a majority of people on his or her side. That majority must also be distributed

nationally to demonstrate support so that you do not have a couple of huge tribes together adding

up to, let us say, 45% of the population and the rest of the population split among small groups

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how Ashanti was ruled, or how the Kikuyu governed themselves before colonial rule, or how

pre-colonial Somali achieved the miracle of having rules without having rulers, the miracle or

ordered anarchy. Now the Somali have just an anarchy without the order but before colonialism

they could have order and combine it with anarchy.

We do not have to repeat exactly what the Ashanti oi'the pre-colonial Kikuyu or Somali did we

simply need to learn from them because they did things which we are not able to do and perhaps

we could learn and adapt ideas from them. For example, how do we get a Queen Mother into the

Kenyan system? We could make the Speaker in Parliament always a woman. That is one

option. A modified version is to make the position of Speaker alternate between a man and

woman: so the present Speaker is a man, the next one has to be a woman regardless of the party

In power. Another possible Queen Mother scenario in a modern context is to have two vice­

presidents, one a man and the other a woman from two different ethnic groups and both

ethnically different from the President.

Africa has experimented before with racial checks and balances - as we did in Kenya in the

Legislative Council in the 1950's when different races were represented and Zimbabwe in the

1980' s when there were reserved seats for Europeans after Independence. Lebanon has a

constitution of religious checks and balances to the present day. The President has to be a

Maronite Christian, the Prime Minister has to be a Sunni Muslim, the Speaker of the House has

to be a Shiite Muslim and the different religious denominations have prescribed percentages of

parliamentary seats. According to the National Pact of Lebanon's independence of 1943, the

distribution of the parliamentary seats was' six Christians to every five Muslims. But the

population of Muslims increased faster than that of Christians and before long the six Christians

to five Muslims looked increasingly unjust and Lebanon was plunged into a civil war. Now they

have attempted with the Taif Accord of 1990 to have some kind of parity but on balance the

issue of religious check and balances is still operational.

On attainment of Independence Kenya had a majimbo constitution which was an experiment in

etl~i~ checks and+:"reality all sub-Saharan African c.ountries should have started by ~

expertrnenting WIth constitutions at least partially based on ethnic checks and balances because

ethnicity is here now, it will be here twenty years from now, it will be here sixty years from now,

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dangerous ethnic rivalry. One African country after another invoked the one-party state as

bulwark against ethnic tensions. Our neighbour, Yoweri Museveni has been no-party state in

Uganda more recently. This is another experiment in disenthenicizing or de-tribalising politics,

Museveni has argued personasively that the multi-party system in Uganda in the past has often

ignited not only ethnic rivalry but downright conflict. Again I am in sympathy with what he

says. I lived in Uganda for ten years, I lived at the time when it was at its best and I saw it enter

into the era of Idi Amin and I saw enter into the era when I had to pack my bags and leave. So, I

know what he is talking about. In reality Museveni has allowed a good deal of multi-party

rhetoric and debate and even multi-party labels. What he has not permitted is multi-party

organisation and mobilisation, The central concern has been fear of ethnic violence.

Milton Obotes first administration had a concept which was more than just de-tribalisation of

politics. He was on his way towards this ethnic checks and balances. What I have in mind is

what was known in 1970 as Obote's Document No.5 in his move to left, He envisaged every

parliamentary candidate to have four constituencies, one primary constituency and three

subsidiary ones. If the primary one was in the east, the subsidiary ones would be in the west, in

the north and in the south, and so on and so forth, So each candidate would need a plurality of

votes in his or her primary constituency, and a particular minimum percentage of votes in the

three subsidiary constituencies. The ideas was to force each parliamentary candidate to

campaign for support among people he has very little in common with physically or in terms of

ethnic background from among northerners, southerners, westerners, easterners, So it was an

attempt to have ethnic tension checks and balances in a complicated manner.

Obote's first administration did not last long enough to implement Document No.5. We used to

call it "Electoral Polygamy", one candidate with four constituencies. Milton Obote was

overthrown by Idi Amin in January 1971 on the even of the proposed implementation of

Electoral Polygamy,

If one candidate standing for four constituencies rs too many constituencies, how about one

candidate standing for just two constituencies - one primary one which may be his or her own

ethnic groups and the other constituency distant from his ethnic groups? The candidate has to

learn how to court voters of divulgent ethnic backgrounds.

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women and all political parties at some stage said yes. Then they started arguing as to whether if

you reserve them for women, the chances are that the women would be high-caste women and

therefore while you promote gender justice, you would deny caste justice: you would increase

the disproportionate representation of caste in the Indian Pari iarnent.

For us in Kenya, for every Government in Kenya from the year 2013, we might consider,

regardless of political party, no less than a minimum of five ministries should be headed by

women. This would require that political parties field many more women candidates for

Parliament than they have done so far.

Should Kenya Muslims support such gender equity politics? I am glad there are Muslim leaders

in the audience. Kenya Muslims should remember that in some aspects of female empc:iwerment

the Muslim world is ahead of most of the Western world. Let me repeat that: that in some

aspects of female empowerment the Muslim world is ahead of most of the Western world. In the

last quarter century, four Muslim countries have had female Heads of State of Heads of

Government. It started with Pakistan where Benazir Bhutto was Prime Ministers twice. There

followed Bangladesh, another large Muslim country in population. In Bangladesh both the ruling

party and the Opposition have been led by women, Hassina Wajed and Begum Khalida Zia.

Turkey, a Muslim society with a secular state has had Mrs. Tansu Ciller as Prime Minister. And

now the largest Muslim country in population - Indonesia - has a Muslim President, Megawati

Sukarno Putri. All this has been happening in the Muslim world long before the United States

has had even a female Vice-President, let alone a female Head of Government. Germany has not

had a female Chancellor, nor France and Russia had a female President. Even the Islamic

Republic ofIran has had at least a woman Deputy President.

Other Muslim countries have already experienced years when the most powerful single

individual in the land has been a woman. This is the Muslim equivalent of the Ashanti Queen

Mother writ really large, even more than a King-maker but a female king. So, for the Muslim,

the Legacy of our Lady Aisha - the Prophet's wife and widow, as a political woman - today is

not to be found within the boundaries of where she was born four centuries ago in the Arabian

Peninsular. The torch of the Lady Aisha, the Prophet's politicised widow, has been passed to the

Muslims further east - in Islamabad, in Dacca, in Kuala Lumpur, in Jakarta and beyond.

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to Congress within four years. Similarly, Muslims everywhere in Kenya and Coastal people

whether they are Muslims or not should have targets they want to realise. Nobody in Malawi

expected that Dr. Karnusu Hastings Banda, Elder of the Church of Scotland, who has ruled the

country for so long with an iron hand, would one day be defeated in an election by a Muslim, Dr.

Bakali Muluzi In Sierra Leone prolonged rule by non-Muslims finally resulted in chaos and

war. Out of the chaos the country turned for the first time to a Muslim President, Ahmed Tejan

Kabbah Unfortunately the chaos and the war had gone too far to be ended by a mere electoral

change. With regard to planning and coalition building, we need to move in that direction - if

we have a target - we need a Coastal Vice-President or a Muslim Vice-President. After all

nobody during the days of either Kofi Busia or Kwame Nkrumah expected Ghana to produce a

Muslim Vice-President, yet a Muslim Vice-President in Ghana is here. He is another

distinguished young man I was privileged to meet this month - Alhaji Aliu Mahama, Vice­

President of Ghana after the years of Jerry Rawlings. So, we need to embark on specific targets,

not just to be engaged in politics but to build coalition with other groups and find ways in which

we can be made participants, not just as voters but in sharing power as part of this ethnic checks

and balances. A Muslim Vice-President could of course be a Somali rather than a Coastal

person. That would also be a major step forward for the people of the North Eastern who have

often been marginalised if not victimised by succeeding regimes. I personally would

wholeheartedly support a qualified Somali Vice-President of Kenya but for the time being I

personally would not support a special distinct society status for the North East of the kind I am

asking for the Coast and I will tell you why. A distinct society status for the North East would

lead to even greater neglect of the Somali people and their deeper rnarginalisation. It would give

an excuse to the victor party of the country to say "leave them alone, neglect them, leave them to

their poverty" and that would be criminal. I would reconsider my position on that matter if-oil is

discovered in the North East. One of my American Professors when I was a student at Columbia

University in the United States, used to say "where there is desert and there are Muslims, there

may be oil". For the sake of the North Eastern of Kenya, I pray that this is a genuine geological

law.

lA final sub-section I want to put before you before my final concluding remarks is on Language

Policy. There is a major assumption that Kiswahili is the de-tribal ising language. This is

certainly true in Tanzania and Kenya to enable members of different tribes to communicate with

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There have been anomalies Kiswahili has been the language of practical politics but not the

official language of the constitution. It has increasingly become the language of morals

preached in churches and mosques but not the language of the law in courts. It is the primary

operational language of the Head of State but not of the ChiefJustice

The Kenyatta years had an additional paradox. The Head of State, Jorno Kenyatta, was the most

pro-Kiswahili member of his own government. He was pro-Kiswahili. His most powerful

minister in the 1970's, Charles Njonjo, was the most pro-English member of Kenyattas

government. Kenyatta went as far as to order Parliament to switch overnight to Kiswahi li as the

only language of legislative debate. Out of the blue, brilliant orators of English of yesterday

became almost tongue-tied in Kiswahili today and modest English speakers of last week

promptly matured into Churchillian oratory in Kiswahili this week.

After Kenyattas death, there was an effort to have a parliamentary compromise with a bilingual

parliament. In reality, the pro-English forces have been on the ascendancy in parliament A

future constitution should make this parliamentary bi-lingualims more real. It is not enough that

members of parliament have the option to speak in either English or Kiswahili. "Hansard" as the

record of parliamentary debates should be bilingual in entirety. Moreover, Ministers in the

Government should be required to give at least a third of their major policy statements in each

offtciallanguage - Kiswahili and English - in the course of each parliamentary session.

Language policy can thus be used as an important instrument of ethnic checks and balances.

The new Kenyan constitution, when it is ready, should be widely distributed in both English and

Kiswahili. There also has to be a clause to say that no later than December 2013, the so"Anniversary of Kenya's Independence, the Swahili text of the Kenyan constitution will have

equal standing legally with the English text

Legal training in Kenya from the year 2013 should require passing a course in legal and judicial

Kiswahili. No one should be licensed to practise law in Kenya after 2013 unless he or she has

passed that Kiswahili examination. We should get out to do business as anybody from any

English speaking country practising law after a week of just brushing up. In this sense language

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presidency, Milton Obote's electoral polygamy state, the multi-provincial rmrurnum for the

presidential election. Some of these devices are still worth considering as potential ethnic checks

and balances, while others - like the one-party states - have been discredited over most of

Africa: Let us hope Ethiopia and Eritrea rebuild their countries and find peace and greater

cooperation.

Here in Kenya we should shed off the superstition that in order to foster national consciousness,

we must have a unitary state. Both the Federal Republic of Germany and the United States of

America are nationally conscious societies with great propensity for patriotism and deep love of

country. In the case of Germany people are even worried about German nationalists and yet

neither Germany nor the United States are unitary states. They are indeed federations.

Local loyalties are perfectly compatible with national patriotism provided the whole system is

inclusive and accommodates difference without marginal ising smaller groups. As a wise voice

from Kisii has reminded fellow Kenyans:-

"It is important to accept at this stage that the aspect of ethnicity is so entrenched

in the country's politics that it is impossible to seek to put the country together

without a system of inclusive government. The first step towards this is to find

ways of dealing with ...... ethnicity from a positive perspective and rehabilitate

the national consciousness as a process of restructuring the country's political

economy

(.S'iJneonNyachae EGH. !vIP. "An Inclusive and Accommodative way Forward - the Case for

a Government ofNational Unity in Kenya", paper published in Nairobi, May 2(}01).

But in Africa no.ethnic checks and balances can long endure unless women are also involved in a

serious way. That why we also need gender checks and balances. British colonialists may never

forget Nana Yaa Asantewaa, the warrior Queen Mother of Ashanti, nor will Yoweri Museveni

forget Alice Lakwena, the woman who led the Acholi to battle against Museveni. We do need to

know more about the role of women in traditional political systems and see what we can learn

from those ancestral cultures. But we know enough already about men and women to insist that

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Hassan Ali commented that any constitution can work in this country (his questions inaudib le

over the mike).

Ms. Kazungu said that with regard to distribution of resources, the Commission will have to

identify the resources of each province. She also said that Affirmative Action should be applied

to media OUtfItS. She said women are intimidated because of traditions that do not allow them to

do a lot of things. She suggested that there should be capacity building exercise on Kenyan men

so that they can work together with women as partners. She also wondered how many times the

new constitution will be amended.

Dr. Ligor of Institute of Civic Affairs said that in 1968 the late Kwame Nkrumah called a

conference in Accra and told the African leaders who attended that they should take a political

system which is justified economically for the African people. He said all leaders have been

ethnic prone and that most constituencies are ethnically placed and he wondered what Kenyans

should do with their ethnic languages.

A speaker asked Prof Mazrui to comment on ethnicity even outside Africa and pointed out that

when the federal constitution of Yugoslavia failed, the country fell apart. He also asked Prof

Mazrui to comment on the younger generation and language. He said somebody like President

Kabila does not speak much Lingala but speaks Swahili. When countries become Independent

without a proper constitution in place, problems arise and he gave an example of Zimbabwe. He

pointed out that during elections it is numbers that matter and asked Prof Mazrui what happened

in America where the majority vote was not sanctioned by the constitution.

Prof. Mazrui said he understood the purpose of the lectures was partly to encourage the

audience themselves to engage in debate rather than to ask questions. He was pleased that the

speakers had made comments and not just posed questions.

On the issue of how to prevent democracy from having effects on marginalisation, he said there

has to be special precaution to prevent marginal ising consequences of freedom because freedom

can produce both winners and losers and the losers could include the more vulnerable sector of

the society.

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Tom Wolfe, all independent researcher, assured the audience that Prof Mazrui is not an

American citizen because the first time he met him in 1974 he had tried to convince him to vote

for his cousin who was running for Congress and Prof. Mazrui had excused himself by saying

that he did not have the right to vote in the United States, then he realised who Prof. Mazrui was.

He said one of the topical issues in Kenya at the moment in relation to the review process is

timing of the completion of the exercise with regard to the next election. He said certain groups

are looking forward to the Commission completing the work before the election or otherwise

because they see political advantages or disadvantages ill that. In comparative African

perspective with regard to ethnicity and gender, he asked Prof. Mazrui whether he thought it was

possible to deal with these issues in terms of producing solutions that would last and what was

the comparative African record in terms of constitutions that are produced in post-election

moments rather than lead-up moments?

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George Mirie of Citizen College for Constitutional Change raised the question of federalism

and asked if it is secure given the country's ethnicity. On reserving special seats for women, he

pointed out that eventhe audience present was not portraying the democracy that Prof. Mazrui

talked about. He asked Prof. Mazrui to address a solution to ethnicity at another forum because

it might save Kenyans from the political polygamy he had talked about. He said a cure of

ethnicity must be found

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Kwornboka of Big Sister said she was glad she came and has met Prof. Mazrui. She said the

constitution is being reviewed by people with Doctorates and are highly educated and she

believed that Kenya will have the best constitution in the world. She said the best way of

eliminating gender inequality is by adopting a document called 'Convention on Elimination of

all forms of Discrimination against Women'. In decision making, she said the best way to

involve women is by ensuring that the new constitution entrenches a quota system to ensure that

targets for increasing representation of women are met. She said no woman went to Lancaster

and said the ladies in the Commission are doing their work.

Hall. Ntimama thanked Prof. Mazrui for expounding the idea that the people of the Federal

Republic of Germany and the United States are just as nationalist as any other people in the

world, so they are federalists. He said people have said that federalism will disintegrate the

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people are coming into a world where there is no cold war, the Third World is being given

conditions by the First World where it has to present itself as regions. He said for this reason

there is a wave of new regionalism whereby East African countries are now coming back into

federalism. He said this is the context in which he sees the new wave of majimboism coming in.

There are no longer nation states where rulers can be controlled and the people are looking for

identities at the local level He said looking at NDPlKanu cooperation, he sees the long-sighted

President Moi of the Kalenjin tribe associating with Raila Odingas Luo tribe because the Luo

community is larger within East Africa and since the cards are moving towards an East African

federal state, in the fullness of time the favour will be repaid with Luo domination at the East

African federation situation .. He was saying this because Prof Mazrui was advocating ethnic

identity and there is dilution of nationhood loyalty that is implied .. He said even the Maasai

would also be powerful in such a setting because they are across two borders. Some po litics is

being generated at the East African level which will be binding to the state parliament and this is

how he sees the rationalisation of modern day majimbo coming in. He asked Prof. Mazrui to

comment on this.

Hanson Oduor of The Disabled for Education and Economic Development Support Kenya,

representing people with disabilities, asked Prof. Mazrui to give people with disabilities his

comments about reservation of seats for people with disabilities within parliament and local

authorities since he had expounded very clearly the issue of gender reservation of seats. He also

asked Prof Mazrui if he supported the idea of disability checks and balances in the constitution

as a distinct marginalised category of society. Should language policy also support entrenchment

in the new constitution of sign language for deaf persons and Braille as a means· of

communication for the visually impaired.

Com. Bishop Njoroge said he had read about Prof. Mazrui and he was happy to see him and to

hear him. He said Professor had ably demonstrated that Kenya has been suffering ethnicity in

terms of her leadership and he has tried to find a way of incorporating it in the leadership maybe

through federalism. He said Prof. Mazrui had said he would like a Muslim to be a Vice­

President and thus he was introducing another angle of a problem in a religious sense. He hadI

even said the particular Muslim he would like, that is from the Coast but that he would like the

NEP to be spared for now. He asked Professor what he would feel about a Muslim from Nyeri

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He said he would have expected the Professor to say that there should be Luo sages, Luhya sages

and the rest in the Commission.

Immanuel Dennis, representing the Children Movement, said he was glad that the Professor

had brought up the issue of the woman being incorporated in the political setup to be guaranteed

by the Golden Jubilee. He said while women issues are considered, children issues have been

forgotten. He said children make up 54% of the population and asked if they will be guaranteed

something in the new constitution so that their voice can be heard on what kind of society they

want as the future belongs to them. He said these children are the ones who have the biggest

brain in the society and that a parliamentary seat should be guaranteed for them.

Eric Origa, Kenya Economics, said Affirmative Action has failed allover the world. He said it

is important for traditional leaders to be included in the constitution and that Prof Ghai should

put out an advertisement to all traditional leaders in Kenya to go and present his views to him.

He said freedom of the information Act cannot be very effective in Kenya because of the weak

Judiciary.

Prof. Mazrui appreciated the questions and comments and made the following Verbatim

response.

The first question is, should we be engaged in this constitutional exercise under conditions of

political tension and worrying about problem of succession, issues of impending elections, etc.

In reality with a country like ours there is almost no time when there wouldn't be some kind of

political tension so we really have to deal with it, come what may. There is the succession issue

at the same time and that could be an advantage if it is true that the President intends to step

.down: it may be a good time to start afresh with a clean constitutional plate. If the Commission

is not about to finish, my recommendation - and I realise that it may not be very popular to half

of this audience - is, rather than mess Lip and ask the Commission to hurry up - a constitution is

supposed to govern our relationships for generations, if not for centuries - for goodness sake let

us extend the life of Parliament for another six months even for a whole year to make sure we

have a good constitution. To sacrifice a document of this kind and say "Hurry up, hurry up, get

27

II

At the of Ram ad han, for the first time in the history of United States, there were festivities in the

White House. The First Lady invited Muslim women there. These are people who recognise

Muslim minorities are vulnerable in societies which are overwhelmingly Christian and therefore

you have to treat them in manners that reassure them. I agree with you that societies that ill treat

Christians should be condemned. I condemn the Afghanistan time and again and any other

society that ill-treats religious minorities. So do not think I am saying this because it is being

done by Muslims it is okay: if it is tyrannical, it is tyrannical whoever is doing it and we must

find ways in which we can safeguard human beings as human beings.

It is true that when I started the debate on maj imbo a few years ago - and it was all over the

place - I was more clearly in the minority than I am today. It is true that I am beginning to feel I

am making progress although I have to wait for the Commission report before I can proclaim that

more definitively, and more still I have to wait until you vote for the constitution before 1 can be

convinced how much progress 1 have made.

With the argument whether Kenya has the propensity to drive out of the country some of its best

minds, I am afraid it is true that we have Ngugi wa Thiong 'o, we have Atieno Odhiarnbo, we

have Yash Ghai and his brother Dhararn Ghai, we have a lot of others - the brain drains in

Kenya - because we do not recognise talent, we do not encourage it and even in public

universities we have created a situation where people do not feel adequately encouraged. They

look around to go to private universities where sometimes they are more appreciated than in

public universities. We really should treat our fellow citizens as human beings: they want at

least a nod of encouragement, for goodness sake.

I I! r

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1 I

With regard to majirnbo and East African federation and whether at the time it was because we

were discussing East African federation which affected our attitudes. Whether we discussed the

Kikuyu - they are big in Kenya - once we have the state of East Africa, the Luo come into their

own because the Luo identity is much larger regionally. It is a very good point to raise, but I

would not have raised it in relation to the end of the cold war, 1 would have raised it in relation to

the issues of globalisation and enlargement of economic scales. It is true that at the same time

economic scale is going up there is retrenchment in cultural scales. As in England, you now

have assemblies in Wales, assemblies in Scotland when you have not had them for hundreds of

29

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whole purpose of an exercise of this kind is to be much more comprehensive and much more

inclusive so that there are safeguards in the different dimensions.

I disagree with the proposition that Affirmative Action has failed everywhere. We need

Affirmative Action: in the United States it has not failed: on the contrary. It is true that

sometimes one sector gains more than was intended, for example in the United States it is

arguable white women benefited more from Affirmative Action than was originally intended.

But I am still happy that women benefited and then that black people benefited from Affirmative

Action. It is absolutely true that they benefited. I agree with you the issue is not perfect and we

have to improve upon it.

Finally, on the issue of reservation of seats for the disabled and especially for the visually

impaired. I am referring to that not simply because of my neighbour on the high table, but some

of you may know I have two children who are blind. I would not regard representation in

parliament as the primary need. The only major blessing in my being forced out of East Africa

by the conditions of Uganda at the time when my kids were still sighted-- We left Uganda, we

had no idea things were going to take a particular turn. My kids were still sighted, they went

blind in the United States - nothing to do with either Uganda or the United States, it is a genetic

fault in them. In the United States there were things that could happen, they did not have to go a

Blind School, but the whole political system is geared to make sure that the disabled are

minimally discriminated against: not just giving them a seat in Parliament. You should tight the

whole system and the people who fight should not just be the disabled, we should all fight for

them. You know, one consequence which would never have happened if I still lived in Africa;

my kids would never have realised their potential. These are blind kids: one of them did well

enough in school, he went to the best schools in the United States: he went to Princeton and

Harvard. You can't do any better than those schools in theUnited States. The other one who

went blind is 32, he is a full Professor with tenure at the age of32 in the University ofYirginia in

Charlottesville, a university established by Thomas Jefferson, the author of the Declaration of

Independence. I can't imagine, ifI still lived in Uganda, I could have been in a position to create

conditions in Uganda that would have enabled them to realise themselves, to go to the best

schools available, to become Professors if they wanted to be, to become lawyers - the son of the

Professor is a Professor of law - if they want. So we have a battle for our disab led but it is not a

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