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10/13/11 3:53 PM

Authorization requested from Michele Polak: Hi michele_polak! I’d like to add you on Skype. Christopher Shanley

10/13/11 3:53 PM

Authorization granted to Christopher Shanley

9:59 AM

Michele Polak added Celeste Smith to this conversation

9:59 AM

Michele Polak added Evan Phail to this conversation

10:00 AM

Michele Polak added Lindsay Webster to this conversation

10:00 AM

Michele Polak added Kristyna Bronner to this conversation

10:06 AM

Michele Polak added Carla Gaynor to this conversation

10:06 AM

Michele Polak added Daphney Etienne to this conversation

10:06 AM

Michele Polak added Kathryn McLean to this conversation

10:07 AM

Michele Polak added Laura Alexander to this conversation

Michele Polak 10:07 AM

GET COZY FOLKS. WE WON'T BEGIN UNTIL 10:15!

10:07 AM

Michele Polak added Meghan Warager to this conversation

Lindsay Webster 10:07 AM

OH EM GEE.

10:07 AM

Michele Polak added Sarah Buckleitner to this conversation

Kathryn McLean 10:07 AM

Hahah i feel an awkward silence

Daphney Etienne 10:07 AM

testing 1 2 testing 123


NOT SILENT HERE. I HAVE MUMFORD & SONS SCREAMING BANJO AT ME

Sarah Buckleitner 10:08 AM

I love Mumford & Sons!!!

Katie McLean 10:08 AM

TOO bad my computer has barbecue sauce in it and I am not cozy in bed!!!!!


I love Mumford and Sons

Evan Phail 10:08 AM

oh Katie too bad


YEAH, THEY ARE MY NEW FAVE OBSESSION

Kristyna Bronner 10:09 AM

I know Michele has to write in caps...but I still feel like she's screaming.


KATIE, I TOTALLY WOULD HAVE JUST LICKED IT CLEAN


HAhahaha! I was too angry!!


SORRY KRISTYNA! LOL


hahaha it would be funnier if we were all in class together hunched over our computers in complete silence haha

10:09 AM

we could have a breakdance battle

10:09 AM

Michele Polak added StephanieHWRRH322 to this conversation


GET COZY THOSE OF YOU THAT JUST CAME ON...WE'LL BEGIN AT 10:15. RIGHT NOW, WE'RE JUST CHATTING NONSENSE STUFF

Evan Phail 10:10 AM

I agree it sounds very loud Michele

10:10 AM

Michele Polak added Caley Goldblatt to this conversation


I think I'm going to have to play some Mumford & Sons now


If anyone wants to come join me and Shanita in the 24 hour...Juuuust saaayin


she's breaking the silence with all caps


IT CAN'T BE THAT LOUD....JIMMY IS UNDER MY FEET SNORING AWAY, THE BASTARD


Jimmy <3

Evan Phail 10:11 AM

Hey Michele, Hannah wants to know if you have her contact to add

StephanieHWRRH322 10:11 AM

i love mumford & sons by the way just sayingg


They really got sooo popular so fast


I DO HAVE HANNAH...IS SHE ONLINE? OR HAVE HER ADD ME

Meghan Warager 10:11 AM

hello everybodyyy


I wish skype chat had colors for fonts

10:12 AM

Michele Polak added Shane Samuel to this conversation


this reminds me of watching teen mom on mtv.com with all the creepy old men chatting in the side bar


GET COMFY...WE'LL BEGIN AT 10:15

Laura Alexander 10:12 AM

linds, it totally does!!!!!!

Evan Phail 10:12 AM

hey Michele, Hannah says she's online.....


EVAN, TELL HANNAH TO ADD ME CUZ SHE ISN'T COMING UP: michele_polak


linds and laura...do you do that often?

10:13 AM

Michele Polak added Luke Lyons to this conversation

10:13 AM

Michele Polak added Shanita Mcleod to this conversation


Haha I also wish there was a like button


all the time. i actually have a fake old man profile online.


knew it


OK SHANITA....I JUST ADDED YO TO THE CHAT...YOU SHOULD SEE US

Shanita Mcleod 10:13 AM

I see you guys thanks

Luke Lyons 10:14 AM

Am I in?


yes u are luke

Luke Lyons 10:14 AM

Sweet


OK...JUST WAITING ON TWO PEOPLE. LET'S GIVE IT TWO MORE MINUTES

10:15 AM

I WAS KINDA HOPING FOR REALLY CRAPPY WEATHER TO MAKE CHAT EVEN BETTER

Shane Samuel 10:15 AM

kk


I THINK I JUST GOT KICKED OUT OF MY OWN CHAT


ok i'm just over here contemplating rhetorically fascinating things....


michele polak up and left us


guess we're on our own- who likes the jonas brothers ?


-_-


:-/


hahahahhahahahaha


:-\

Evan Phail 10:16 AM


Caley Goldblatt 10:16 AM

i do!


they make little kids cry


there is always one lol



oh wait no, that's bieber



hahaha i love this class


nick is the beautiful face of diabetes what an inspiration


it's my favorite class


HAHAHAHHAHA


i love the thumbs down thing


OK. I'M HERE. DAMMIT


my fav class by far

10:17 AM

Michele Polak added Eliss Manon to this conversation


great your here


We felt soo neglected!!!


lets get started

10:17 AM

Michele Polak added Hannah Sorgi WRRH322 to this conversation


OK ELISS AND HANNAH...SEE US?

Evan Phail 10:17 AM

yay!

Eliss Manon 10:18 AM

yea this is so weird lol


SHOULD WE GET STARTED?


yes!


YEEES


it's awesome and yes


where is Sorgi


yaaaaa

Hannah Sorgi WRRH322 10:18 AM

yes!


shorty sorgi.


okay


NOW REMEMBER THAT THIS WILL GO VERY QUICKLY. BEAR WITH IT....YOU'LL PICK IT UP


lets begin


ok

10:19 AM

Michele Polak added Yuliana Baez to this conversation


OK YULIANA...YOU SEE US?

10:19 AM

WE ARE ALL HERE. SO GLAD WE PULLED THIS OFF!

Yuliana Baez 10:19 AM

Yes I do


OK. LET'S START WITH A COMPARISON BETWEEN MONSTER AND MEX WHITE BOY


SO different! DAnny was sooo quiet

10:20 AM

and mute and communicated with shrugs and nods


monster mexican whiteboy


both have serious identity issues though

Carla Gaynor 10:20 AM

neither of them were written in the first person, for the most part


that irritated me the whole novel! i just wanted him to talk!


I agree with lindsay


very true


HA LINDS! LOVE THE EMOTICONS! CAN'T GET THAT IN BBOARD


Danny's parents were separated and he was torn between the two cultures


Yeah, biculturalism


RIGHT CARLA, NEITHER IN FIRST PERSON


Brings such a different element


i thought mex whiteboy was better and easier to relate to

Evan Phail 10:20 AM

Well Monster was all about Stephen, family did not have too much of a scene, while in Mex Whiteboy, Family and friends were everything!


and through experience they went through they learned more about themselves


In Monster Steven was able to live the street life and the school life


the styles of writing were very different too; I felt more like I was picking up a book that'd be assigned for class when I started reading MWB


I like the choice of third person for MEX

Christopher Shanley 10:20 AM

Well danny was a "real" charecter. That's not to sat the author didnt have an agenda but he resisted beating you over the head with it


YES, THE FAMILIAL THEME WAS PRESENT


Steven forced himself to fit in at school


Danny was having identity issues...and Stephen was facing jailtime for murder. It was easier for me to like Danny.


i liked the style of mexican better. i think for teens too it would be easier to read


YEAH KRISTYNA, I LIEKD DANNY MORE, ALSO.


Danny made me so sad though. the forearm digging business


i did too, laura


I agree i liked danny more


I thought family was in Monster too a little though, the main character kept thinking how his family perceived him now that he was in jail


It was more difficult for me to like Danny because his story was so typical


I felt like i KNEW him more


YES KATIE! HE WAS AN SI!


i like both of them and i dont think their circumstances should


mexican whiteboy was a much easier read too since we didn't have to read through alternating screenplays and journals


be the reason you should like them


a child torn after his parents separate


I the stereotyped mullticulturalism book I believe that Mexican white boy did not fit that catagory


Yeah that was sooo upsetting! And the fact that people in his life knew about it


In*


@Laura


the structure of the fonts was easier in mex white boy


but he was so overlooked, and his mom only cared about men


The SI is the thing that turned me off to the novel, I think


i thought that the way both stories was written very clearly reflected the true age of the character


After reading Mex I felt like Monster shouldn't be classified a multicultural, because Monster is about Americans from America and Mex is about non Americans because the Mexican culture affects their daily lives


agreed


HMMM. OK YULIANA SAYS THAT MEX WHITE BOY DID NOT FIT THE MULTICULTURALISM CATEGORY--IS THIS RIGHT?


The different fonts in Monster helped us differentiate when Steven was talking and when it was other people


I agree with Daphney


i think it did fit


YUli I disagree I think it did


SORRY--MONSTER


what did you guys all think about his pretend "letters" to his father?

Celeste Smith 10:22 AM

it definitely seemed way more about idenity to me


I dunno about that Daphney, there are different cultures within America


the pretend letters confused me at first


But the si setved the broader context of the story- to me at least it never seemed gratuitous or out of context


OK...HOLD ON...LOSY TO SAY, LETS FOCUS ON ONE SUBJECT


I agree with YULI


Michele,. i felt the opposite as Yuli

Luke Lyons 10:22 AM

I agree with Yuliana


well it depends on what you perceive as multi-culturalism. We are a dominated "white superior" society or have been so anything else would be perceived as "multiculturalism"


LETS DISCUSS THE GENRE OF MULTICUTLRUALISM


I thought that was a litttle pathetic at first but then i


OR OUR HEADS WILL BLWO OFF IF WE COVER TOO MUCH


bc relative to the other books in that category, Monster is about an American guy


i feel dehydrated trying to keep up with this chat.


Hahahah blowing off now


i agree michele i'm getting confused haha


thought about his situation and i gave him a pass


these little pencils are a lot to handle...


I though it was interesting that all of these books take place in america


OK. LETS ONLY FOCUS ON THE GENRE RIGHT NOW

10:23 AM

YES, BOTH BOOKS SETTING IS AMERICA


for me they both represetned multiculturism because they both represented worlds i'm not familiar with


DO WE NEED IT TO BE AMERICAN TO FIT THE GENRE? WHAT DO YOU THINK?


Well since most book are "white dominated" going by that definition both of these would be multicultural?


NICE LAURA! GOLD STAR


I think that mex white boy encompasses multiculturalism more than monster


i felt that it did fit the genre because a lot of the concern in the book was if he would get a fair court ruling because of his race


I agree with Laura


I'd say definitely not


Okay- MEX WHITE I felt that was at the front of Dannys mind all the time, eating tacos with his family-- he felt on the outside, even just eating a taco!


i think it depends on the situation


HMMM KRYSTINA. GOOD QUESTION


I think that it gives us some connection to the book/ characters all being american


did you all notice that the book was written like Danny's pitches. It started off fast yet stead before


we can relate with the settings more


going all fastball with the sucide


I agree Caley


Monster was so focsued on getting through the trial, those issues were pushed aside


HOLD ON SHANE....HOLD DISCUSSION ON STRUURE


I don't agree with Laura that a culture you are not familar with makes it multicultural


I never got a feeling of connection because i was american


suicide*


@Laura, that's the thing, is it relative then? Are we comparing it to White American culture, and is that the norm?


lie mex. white boy was having trouble fitting in because he was living in two diff worlds

10:24 AM

like*


mex whiteboy almost represented true america.... this melting pot situation


yeahhh definitely


Yeah! Change in generations too


yes. Lindsey. agreed


I'd say the genre is relative


agreed


i never understood that true america phrase, so where is fake america..with monster


MEX WHITE BOY WAS CERTINALY ABOUT HIS ETHNICITY...DID WE GET THE IDEA THAT MONSTER WAS MULTICULTURAL?


in monster steven was having trouble fitting in because he was trying to live his dreams and aspirations


?


if he was mex. and gutamalan i doubt he would have trouble fitting in


but he was interrupted by the street life


Well if we go off laura's point, that would mean reading a book about a white family for someone who isn't white...that's multicultural for them.


somewhat but i thinki monster exposed "class" more


i didnt get monster as being multicultual


well they did have discussions of ethnicity in monster didn't they


so that definition doesnt really work if you flip it that way


not as much. was al based in court practically


I'm not sure about multicultural, but definitely about how your appearance affects the way people perceive you


I thought it was so interesting how they defined what it is to be Mexican


they used the descriptions of people in the court trial


yes i got the idea of multicultural in monster since you tend to see more racist views during the trial


and what made him different.. his "whiteness"


monster was more about the trial and finding the truth than a multicultural situation (to mee...)


So is the genre the intersection of two distinct cuktures in a way that leys them be drawn unti focous in a reflective sense- because this definitley fits somewhere within that structure.


had pieces of different cultures, but only through court, not real world

Luke Lyons 10:26 AM

The only thing we got that was 'multicultural' from Monster was the point of view of a young African American male in Harlem.


DO YOU THINK MONSTER DISCUSSED RACE THE WAY MEX WHITE BOY DISCUSSED ETHNICITY?


I think both books give us a sense of balance because it allowed us to see what Steve and Danny's lives were like in the school setting


Yeah! All the white lawyers against them


i think it wasnt as obvious, but it did discuss it


@lindsay that is because you were not looking beyond the text


well ethnicity was much more prevalent and important for the story of Mexican white boy in terms of him defining who he is

Luke Lyons 10:26 AM

No. it was definitely implied though


and what is was like in the outside setting where they had to fend for themselves


monster was def about race


I didn't think Monster was multi cultural, but then again that's only my point of view bc I\'m of a different culture. so to me, American Culture is American culture, both African American and White cultures, even with the differences


in a way i think it did


I think they discussed them similarly


not just a trial


thanks shane love you too


Mo monster was a "personal" story that drew on the steryotyped image of the white middle class for backdrop


GOD, YOU ARE ALL SO FREAKIN SMART


Almost all the characters in Monster were black and latino


I was impressed with MEX because it explores multi ethnic people


OK...ANOTHER COMPAIRON...FOCUS:

10:27 AM

LET’S DO SOME COMPARISONS BETWEEN THE FARTHER SON RELATIONSHIPS IN MONSTER AND MEX WHITE BOY. HOW ARE THEY THE SAME? HOW DO THEY DIFFER?


It's often neglected


[SRRY FOR MY HORRIBLE TYPING ERRORS!]


MEX WHITE BOY--neglectful, but he needed him sooo baaad. And wanted to be like him. BUT WHY


i felt we didnt get enough of the father son relationship in monster, where as in mexian it is a central focus


in monster his faher was there when he needed him but Danny didnt have a father figure


For Steven he let his father down because his father set high standards for him

Evan Phail 10:28 AM

MWB, Danny hasn't seen his father in 3 years and almost all of the book is a journey for him to impress his father, little does he know his dad' in jail

Luke Lyons 10:28 AM

def.


I thought the most interesting father son relationship was between Uno and his father Senior.


so there is def a difference in that area


I felt like that's how Monster was in general

Luke Lyons 10:28 AM

The relationship in monster was barely there


Senior was such a rambler


i dont think you get a lot of scenes where steve is with his father, or talking about it father. it seemed his mother was more present


Clearly there is a reality break in what the father/son relationship in mexican white boy is in reality compared to danny's mind


like you caught glimpses of issues


@Katheryn, sorry neglectful was for another comment lol


The author actually did a good job of showing how ramblign senior was


but didn't get to explore them thoroughly


Monster he really did not have a father relationship


that's why I didn't like it as much, I think


i think the father neglect in mex brought about part of Dannys need to fit in


i disagree with Luke


both Danny and the main character in Monster wanted to impress their fathers.


well compared to Dannys father it was more there if not at all


Althought we do not see much of his father in Monster

Evan Phail 10:28 AM

I agree, I really liked the relationship between UNo and Senior, for once we had a strong black male character


i agree with meghan


i agree with meghan uno and senior were really interesting


NICE EVAN. I THOUGHT SENIOR WAS A STRONG CHARACTER, ALSO


i think the missing father situation in MWB reminded me of the argument made today that


I was almost horrified by how much danny wanted to be with his dad after finding out he was a wife beater, fighter, deadbeat etc.


impression and image were big for both boys


I agreee with Lucas he did not have a relationship with his dad. His connection was mainly with his mother


Uno was totally that kid


childen need fathers to function


you can see that Steven and his father have a connection esp because of how emotional we see them get before and after trial


in monster, i thought stephens relationship with his brother was much more real and tangible than his relationship with his dad


etc..


I thought senior was the "archie"


Ya know, like soooooo typical


you could see that the father truly cared in Monster but at the same time you see him mostly focusing on his mother's feelings


NICE LINDS!


The absence of a father in Monster, I think says a lot


LET'S TIE THIS TO STRCUTURE: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE LETTERS DANNY WROTE TO HIS FATHER? DO WE NEED THEM?


i agree senior was definitely an archie but also uno was danny's archie


I agree with Daphney


not absence, but hes not mentiones a lot


YEAH! They gave us insight into Danny-- not even just about him and his father


I think they show is desperation to make his dad proud


i feel that we do need them because it develops danny's character uite a bit


Yes I think we do need those letters


I think we need the letters


But even about him and his family, his emotions, his displaecment


YES. THE Letters are very important


I think we need a better definition for what an Archie is


yeah i think we need the letters. they help us see how desperate he is for that male connection


Well it gives us perspective into what he's thinking and feeling. especially because of the way the book is written.


BUT THE LETTERS WERE ALL LIES. WHY?


they're also in a sad way, funny


yes because they show how desperately he's trying to portray himself, who he wants to be, who he thinks he should be


i think we definitely need the letters because you see how desperate danny is to see his father. he's so quiet throughout most of the text, but we get a different side to him in the letters

Evan Phail 10:30 AM

Yes, we need Danny's letters, we get an idea of what hes thinking on the inside even though the book is in 3rd person


That was what made them work


i didnt find then distracting from the narractive


I agree we do need the letters they help us see how danny wishes his reality was

Evan Phail 10:30 AM

Danny wants to impress his father so much and the letters show this


it shows how he wants his father to view him


In monster though the father was someone he was trying to live up to- it was more like an attempt to fill the role then a belief that a relationship was going to happen there mwb he wants and needs his father to play an active role with him


hes searching for acceptance


NICE EVAN! NICCE MEGHAN


because its his imaginary life, hes so contained and supresses everything so it was his chance to just let go


He wants that guidance


the back and forth from journal to script in monster was distracting


all the lies, it's as if he has to exagerate and be somebody else to be accepted


he's willing to lie about his happiness-- his desperation shown clearly in these letters to see his father


i think it showed how he didnt have enoug couarge to confront his father


i dont think we need the letter because his whole crisis was about needing a father i think the letters were just filler


wanted him to come back from "Mexico" so had to make up something good!


NICE STEPHANIE


He doesn't want to come off as vulnerable to his father that he barely knows.


HMMM. SHANE SAYS LETTERS WERE FILLER


He's trying to make it seem like not having a father is okay with him.


INTERSTING


I think the letters were a lot more effective in MWB because they expanded on an issue

10:31 AM

and gave us insight


but even though he does not want to come off as vulnerable


yeah he wants to be a tough guy, which in reality it totally isnt


So not a filler. We wouldn't know anything about Danny without the letters


i think he does by even writing them


The letters not filler at all


NICE KATIE


I agree Shanita.

Luke Lyons 10:31 AM

The only thing that kept me close to Danny were the letters to his father


So I guess it didn't work in his favor.


HMMM LUKE. INTERSTING


yeah, the letters help us learn about danny since he doesnt talk and we cant learn about him in that way

Luke Lyons 10:32 AM

it was a nice break from the thrid person perspective


i agree with luke i loved the letters they kept me interested


not filler. just emphasizing his desire for the ideal identity in his mind


I thought they were the first time he reallllly opened up


the letters help you to relate

Evan Phail 10:32 AM

also I did have a problem that Danny was only separated from his father for 3 years, which would have made him 13 when his father left....i would think by this time he would have had a relatiomnship with his father....it seemed like he had no idea what his father was like


yeah i agree lukey, you get a more personal connection through the letters


the letters were dannys way of expressing himself


Agreed the letters are really the only place where we hear Dannys voice in a meaningfull way- he's feel flat without them.


i felt it was the only true insight into danny since he doesnt really talk


That's true evan...i didn't even think of that.


really? I dont know. I didnt get that whole sentimental feeling from the letters it didnt make me connect with him


i agree with evan


DID WE NEED MORE OF THE LETTERS? LESS?


But why must we always relate to these books?


i dont think it was displaying his ideal identity, but him wanting to understand the missing part of him


woah, didn't realize it was only 3 years evan- interesting. I agree then. Why didn't they have more of a connection? And an honest relationship?


plus danny was so upset about the way his mother was turning his family into he wanted a like step away from reality and connection to his father


We needed the letters


i thin less of the letters


the letters were necissary


im on the fence with the letters


No more letters- it would have been too much and over pushing the idea


bc i thought of them as something that hge's going to look back on and laugh off


exactly christopher, since he's actually so shy and even chooses not to speak which i found very interesting because that was one of his father's influences on him


If theere were more of the letters the whole book would be different.


I KNWO THIS IS GOING FAST FOR SOME OF YOU BUT THIS IS A GREAT DISCUSSION--EVERYONE IS GETTING A CHANCE TO SPEAK


I liked when they added the letters in for good juxtaposition


@ Evan- I read it as more of an exastential crisis about the nature of his father and his relation to him.


almost everything danny does or feels stems from his father's neglet


He didn't just lie. He LIED


NICE CHRIS


once he matures and realize the relationship with his father for what it never was


I felt like the letters were more for himself to be worthy of a badass like his dad


neccessary as a reminder of how deep this desire is for him. but the amount was good- more would have been annoying because they were lies and kind of frustrating to read


everything danny does, even playing baseball, is something he feels will connect him with his father


i though thatthrough his father he was trying to find himslef


NICE ELISS


yeah, I thought that de la pena rode the letters line well-- enough to give us a connection


Was he trying to find himself


without the neglect of the father this book would not be of any interest. and the letters pull you in


In that case Steve was trying to find himself also


but not too much that it distracted from the story


or make a connection and become his own person

10:34 AM

?


that is finding himself i think


LETS TALK CAHRACTERS: WHO WAS MEX WHITE BOY ABOUT?


I thought they were almost more like writing Dear diary instead of dear dad- not like he ever responded and they were all lies about wishes for himself


UNO


Danny


it could be a little bot of both


danny


danny


it was both danny and uno


I agree with Eliss


It was about Danny and Uno


and uno


danny and uno


Uno is giving us an outside perspective of UNo


danny/uno

Evan Phail 10:35 AM

Oh yeh, i agree with everyone, Danny definitely was trying to find his own identity and not that of his family


I mean Danny


i agree it was about uno


fatherless children


uno goes through a very similar situation; however, he is sooo much more outspoken than danny


HA SHANITA! LVOE IT!


I think it was about people that didnt fit into one specific category, the most obvious connection was that both Danny and Uno were half mexican


that made me laugh


but dad was a way of covering up that it was his diary i can totaly see that


and that's why i look at uno as danny's archie

Evan Phail 10:35 AM

although MWB was about Danny, UNo was a more interesting character


yes i definitely agree with shanita!


danny and uno. how both started to find their identity through their unpredicted friendship that examined multiculturism


i agree with evan


@Shanita the two aren't mutually exclusive. He can want to define himself in comparison to his father and as an independent entity. Teenagers aren't consistent after all it helped make his voice authentic for me

Evan Phail 10:35 AM

we see more motivation/desire from Uno / reasons why he's tough


OK--THE ARCHIE, SINCE WE KEEP GOING THERE. UNO OR SENIOR?


he really wants danny to develop into a more outspoken and stronger individual

Evan Phail 10:35 AM

with danny, we're a little frustrated with his shyness


senior


it ws about uno and danny because they were the same people basically. the dichotomy between was really likable


Neither...


SENIOR

Luke Lyons 10:35 AM

senior


I hated Senior


senior


Danny could have looked to his mothers bf for a father figure but there would still be that empty

Evan Phail 10:36 AM

BOTH!


wait, but how can we define Archie?


uno!


NEITHER KATIE?


space


Uno was for Danny as Senior was for Uno


GOOD SARAH...WE NEED TO GO BACK TO DEFINING ARCHIE


just because he was out of touch with his Mexican side


senior didnt give advice, he just lectured. i think the archie was uno


Yeah I don't know, I thought they were faking their wiseness


uno. senior was too weird


both


But Maybe that's becuase of my identity position


OOH KATIE


tried to hard


because in Stargirl, the Archie is an old man


they are both biracial, facing identity issues and ended up supported eachother in more ways than they could imagine


senior did give advice

10:36 AM

everything he said i thought was advice


If archie is someone who provides guidence..then senior


an adult


Senior was talking out of his ass all the time


the archie doesnt have to be old


he isn't in the same peer circle


yeah senior too with all his preaching haha but the interaction between uno and danny is so much deeper


archie was crank


is that important?


?


we have to define what the important factors in the Archie character are


NO ONE SAID IN THE BLOG THAT IT WAS SOFE. THAT WAS CALL FOR ARCHIE


archie can be anyone or anything that helps through struggles


Oh i LOVED her


first senior saguaro now senior...its a pattern


and allows the person to learn on their own


YEAH, I WANTED AN ENTIRE BOOK OF SOFE


She was a silent director


i think uno was danny archie. he was his support system


why was he trying to hard?


HA ELISS!


in this case the Archie was Uno


and danny was uno archie


well I dont think it's as clear in this book as in Stargirl...it's been gettting harder and harder to define the more books that we read


NICE SHANE


yeah i agree with Shane


GODO POINT KRISTYNE

Evan Phail 10:38 AM

The whole train power scene makes me think Uno was Danny's archie


agreed


i mentioned this in my text response but that scene in the book where they hold onto the rails under the train is all about the relationship between uno and danny growing so much stronger and danny's complete trust for uno


Uno was Danny's archie and vice versa


ooh like that evan


@kristyna that is because evryone keeps trying to make the adult an archie


i agree with kristyna. the plots are more complicated and so are the characters so defining archie gets harder


in this novel it depends on your audience what the archie characher would be


maybe we need a new category for sofe


agreed


YEAH THESE CHARACETS COULD BE EACH OTHERS ARCHIE....WE NEVER MAY GET A CLEAR ARCHIE AS THE ORIGINAL ARCHIE SINC ETHE BOOKS RE GETTING MORE COMPLEX


Maybe we don't even need an Archie anymore


once everyone drops that and broaden their mind then they would see that adults are not the only archies

Luke Lyons 10:38 AM

like what celeste?


OOH CELESTE! YES, WE NEED A NEW CATEGORY FOR SOFE


but maybe thats the point...


now that i hear that perspective i think there could be more than one archie


it'd probs be more clear if we knew what the different categories of characters were


identity crisis...and archie crisis?


This book MWB just pisses me off


HAhahaha!


The older the characters get, the more it's like an angel, and a devil on their shoulders rather than an Archie


can archie be the person these individuals become after they get through their struggles

Luke Lyons 10:39 AM

hahaha


archie crisis!


MAYBE WE SHOUDL DO THSI IN CLASS ON MONDAY, CREATE CHAREACTER CATEGORIES, REMIND ME


yes!


WE'LL BRAINSTORM A LIST


sounds good


although they receive help from others ultimately they make their decisions


that'd be really helpful


sofia was very interesting ebcause one minute she was a joke cracking girl the next she is like a mother figure to danny


for finding patterns


it would


sticking up for him and whatnot


OK...LETS TALK THEME: HOW WELL DO YOU THINK THE BASEBALL THEME WORKED FOR THE STORY?


i completely forgot about sofia!


i think sofe and stargirl might fit into the same category


Shmeeeeh yeah, but baseball is also boring


I LOVED THE BASEBALL team!


I thought it worked better than film


Baseball defined Danny


baseball symbolized danny's struggle with his identity


i think she connect uno and danny i mean she was the reason they met


I can't think of anything to replace it with though


i TOTALLY agree with caley


Like Shane said in the beginning baseball worked well


it unified them


NICE CALEY.'


the baseball made it hard for me to connect though


oh yea def


IT WAS BETTER WRITTEN--I THOGUHT--THAN THE FILM THEME


i think it did work, and trying to find that control was a good comparission like trying to find yourself


i agree with sarah


it was a metaphor for getting throuhh his struggles


NICE SHANITA


baseball was a common thread that readers could understand


definitely


IU liked the repetition language the author used when writing about baseball


through*


I liked the baseball way more than the film


well would the baseball help someone who couldnt connect with danny on any other level? imagine an elementary school or middle school boy


even though I can generally connect better to film than to sports


i think baseball is something that teen boys, the readers for this book, could relate to


I thought it worked because it was a community sport, a cultural sport, and there are individual andddd team elements to it


baseball crosses cultures


that was probably the author's doing


SADLY, THIS BOOK DIDNT WIN THE AWARDS MONSTER DID.


I perfered the film theme better than the baseball


yup, as i said eariler the story is written like baseball fast steady and then suddenly striking


NICE HANNAH


Because it was so far from poetic


I think de la pena did a better job


I don't think it should have won an award like Monster did


how else would you get this "white Mexican boy" "The "Black Mexican Boy" and the all other "full Mexican" kids interecting, if it wasn't for that one thing they all loved you know


him fending for himself when he was with uno allowed for him to build up the courage to stand up to those on the baseball team at his school


at helping the reader connect


baseball let's him escape his battle of identity


YES SHANE...THE BASEBALL THEME FOLLWES THE STRCUTRE OF THE STORY!


I definitely like the writing more in this book


i agree with yuliana


Sofie occupies somewhere between archie and a closer supporting charecter as in Perks of Being a Wallflower. Just not sure where to pin her.


he knows who he is when he plays baseball


idk why it won the awards. like hannah said baseball crosses cultures. I didn't connect with Monster at all. Least fav. book so far


i liked that it was a story, not a screen play. it was easier to sink into


Yeah I agree with Stephanie. Baseball allows the reader to see that Danny does have some sense of identity.

10:42 AM

His race doesn't matter. He's just another kid on the field.


monster didnt conncet with you but it migh have with other ppl


YEAH, I LIEK THIS SO MUCH BETTER THAN MONSTER


When UNO asked for a job he was convinced he wasnt being hired bc of his race


me too!


baseball vs. film/crime? seems like baseball is an easy winner for relatability and for ease of exploring identity


@Michelle there are still strictures of prejiduce about literature presenting this kind of experience in this country. This is to alot of people an "Illegitimate" community


GOOD PICK (PAT MSYELF ON THE BACK)


so it's clear that the community is very selective


See what most people say they did not like Monster because of the way it was written. Would people have liked it if it was written as an actual story?


There was nothing special about this book to me, did anyone else feel that way?

Luke Lyons 10:42 AM

i think so


I think probably Yuliana


That might be because so far we have read a lot of unique writing styles


I think that the author made a mistake


i did


baseball is a part of boy culture


yeah if monster was in another format, i think i could have liked it better


It's my favorite book so far


the only thing i liked ws the speech in the book


I agree Yuliana Monster had a good story but it was just written difficultly


HMM...KATIE IS ASKING A GOID QUESITON--NOTHING SPECIAL ABOUT THIS BOOK. DID YOU FEEL THE DSAME WAY?


in trying to fit the court scene within a movie within a novel


it builds community that boys can relate to until being in prison


i feel there is something special about this book


there were no real gimmicks, if that's what you mean


not for everyone


which is nice


HA SARAH!


I agree there isn't anything special about it


@yuliana i dont think they dislike monster ebcause of the way it is written i think it is because they dont feel that "conection" which goes abck to the pooint you said, why do we feel that we always need to conenct with the book


it a about a multiethnic individual


there may be if you were a young teenage boy growing up in mixed cultures


baseball is also part of Spanich culture


i agree with Shane


YEAH, YULI....THAT LACK OF CONNECITON MEANS EVERYTHING IN A BOOK. GO BACK TO THAT IDENTITY POSTION THING


we do not always need to connect with a book


that is a good question

10:44 AM

why do we need to connect so badly?


@Katie the story itself might not be exceptional but it taps into an unadressed pool of shared experience. It's effective I think depating its status as "good" is trickier.


It makes me wonder what De La Pena's story is


i think monster could definitely connect with some readers, i wasnt one of them, but i think it could still connect


Does this book relate to him?


we need to use these books that we do not connect with as a tool to understand the culture


i do not think MWB was special it spewed the same rhetoric i spoke about "a child needs a father in orer to function"


@shane i agree with you because I myself am spanish but I am not a fan of Mexican White Boy at all


WELL TRY THSI QUESTION SINCE IT HAD ME CURIOUS ALL WEEK:

10:44 AM

THIS ROUND OF TEXT RESPONSES WERE PARTICULARILY PERSONAL FROM MANY OF YOU. WHAT IS IT ABOUT THIS TEXT THAT MADE SO MANY OF YOU CONNECT TO YOUR OWN PERSONAL IDENTITY?


It was about boys, but i connected all the way


and different situations that affect people everyday


i agree with katie


that's an awesome question, michele


I connected when i could relate to the issues that were being addressed


it'll take some deep thinking for me to dig up an answer though

Evan Phail 10:45 AM

I disagree Shane, by the end Danny can live without his father


it was the whole finding who you are and where you belong, everyones been there and can relate


exactly shanita


because it so clearly outlines his struggles with id, that I feel like every adol. goes through


i connected to the idea of trying to fit in.


i connected with this book because both my parents came here from the Caribbean


I think it just did a really good job of connecting to many different individuals

10:45 AM

and it made us think about our own struggles with ID


BUT ALL THE BOOKS IN YA ARE ABOUT FINDING IDENTITY. WHY DID SO MANY OF YOU SHARE SO ANY PERSONAL THING SIN THE BLOG THIS WEEK?


who doesn't try to see where they fit in, impress their parents, be the cool kid in a new neighborhood?


i agree with sarah


I connected it with my own identity because it was a different culture in print. I feel like we're becoming a society of hyphinated Americans so it's cool to see it represented in literature


honestly the first book I even really noticed issues of id


so i was often torn between how to behave and what cultural traditions i would follow because i am American born but Jamaican raised


OR MAYBE ITS NOT JUST THE BOOK BUT WE ARE FAR ENOUGH INTO THE SEMESTER, YOU FEEL COMFROTABLE ENUF TO DO SO


@evan but the whole story is basically "i need my dad, i cant live without him blah blah blah" it because sooo typical...maube its because i was raised by my mom that i feel this way but i do not think MWB is all that special


in 6th grade I went to an innercity school in phoenix that was predominately mexican and I really flashed back to that while reading this book


I thought id overpowered multiculturalism in the book


that too, michele


i think it was the book


I think it was the book too


i have both my parents in my life


I actually didn't connect strongly but I'm irish and I don't really experience crisises of identity- I yem who i yem. The appeals to those who want to define themselves within the context of thier identity rather than be defined by it.


i cannot wait to see what everyone has to say about push...since there is this obsession with "connection"


MAYBE THE IDENTIY ISSUE IS STRONGER IN THIS BOOK THAN THE OTHERS?


because you find yourslef connecting to it one way or the other well sometimea


definitely


yes, definitely stronger


the issues were defined very clearly


yea it is


i think so


it was right in your face


Well it makes it more interesting to connect to a book...but I don't think it's always necessary.


I think it was stronger in this one because it was a clear tear between two different cultures


WHICH MEANS ITS THE WAY ITS WRITTEN. CUZ ALL THE BOOKS WE HAVE READ ABOYUT IDENTITY,


I definitely didn't want to find connection with Bree in Crank.


and with such easy access to the theme, you can more easily apply them to your own life


so clear, especially in those letters. just spelled it out for the reader


the other books were just like a search for who you are and using substances or cutting to figure it out


WHY MEX WHITE BOY? WHAT MAKES THIS ONE THE STRGONEST?


I think the connections we have with some of the other books were more subtle

Evan Phail 10:47 AM

I connected perfectly but I am in Danny's situation, white-hispanic who went to private high school but still had family in PR, and i dont speak spanish


maybe because danny and uno offer 2 different positions on finding yourself? so it was easier to relate to at least one?


AH, SO SOME OF YOUA RE USING YORU ACTUAL IDENTITY POSITION. GOOD FOR YOU


i think it is a stronger book because it forces the reader to learn about the Mexican culture


maybe we empathized more with danny.


because its MEX and WHITE and BOY, it shows that every is not just one thing, and people are complex with their identities and that there is a need to find where you fit into the mix

Luke Lyons 10:48 AM

Definitely


I'm not so sure it's the strongest, just different


i agree with hannah


YEAH, MEGAHN, I HAD MORE EMPATHY WITH DANNY THAN STEVEN AND STEVEN WAS THE ONE IN JAIL!

Luke Lyons 10:48 AM

I don't read too many books about Mexican culture

10:48 AM

i found it refreshing


English is my second language, and though the other language in this book is spanish, I connected with being bilingual and connecting the two languages


it made us connect in a way that brought in our own lives, rather than arousing subtle emotions


why more empathy with Danny


the identity is the main issue in the book. whereas the other books we've been reading have bigger issues


NICE HANNAH...THINK ABOUT MY IDENTIY POSITON THAT I NOTED ONT EH BAORD---I HAD A LIST!


i liked danny, and i didnt feel like knew steve well enough to like him


i connected to danny when he was like the "odd" one in his family


what thing i couldn't connect with was the setting

Evan Phail 10:48 AM

agree with Laura completely


@hannah...so how is that different than monster he was African-American Black boy


even though he was still spanish


what is rhe difference


I had more emphanthy for Steve just for the fact that those are the books that don't really get voiced or brushed into the streotypes


the*


I had a hard time picturing it


i agree Laura!!


i agree laura. we didn't get to learn much about steven


that's how I felt about Kristina/Bree


i just do not get it


me too. but why? shouldn't I feel worse about a kiddo in jail? that's just weird. de le pena did something to me! but what?


thats how i feel celeste!


SO MAYBE IT WAS SETTING? COURTROOM VS. EUGHBORHOOD? THOUGH FOR YULI- MONSTER WAS NEIGHBOORHOOD


de la pena was a good author

10:49 AM

or is, rather


de la pena gave u a fatherless child


Monster just wasn't as well written


I couldnt relate to monster because it focused on one specific personal identity of white I cant relate to


GOOD POINT CELSTE. THERE IS SOEMTHING TO HOW MEX WHITE BOY IS WRITTEN


that's my personal opinion, of course


myers gave u someone who did wrong

10:50 AM

but was young and still had his life ahead of him


I feel like we didnt learn enough about steve because so much was drawn out for the suspense of the book like did he do it? he did come out and say Steve is innocent and here is his story


so was monster


well maybe it's because i felt like problems of identity were more easy to relate to than being in jail. i could see myself trying to figure out who i am like danny...but i'm not planning on being involved in a robbery/murder anytime soon


but did he do wrong? we never find out in monster


MWB gave everyone something to relate to


i think by writing in a tradtional format, de la pena gives us more chance to get to know the characters and then form a relationship with them


OK. HERE IS WHAT I THINK: IT'S ALL IN THE DIALOGUE.


agreed Kristyna


@Sarah although to be fair you're totally right it's a book too focoused on the message and not nearly enough on the craft


i agree with laura


I MENTIONED IN CLASS THAT I THOUGHT THIS BOOK WAS “HONEST” DUE TO THE DIALOGUE. HOW DO YOU THINK THE DIALOGUE IN THIS TEXT DIFFERS FROM SOME OF THE BOOKS WE HAVE ALREADY READ?


I agree michele

Evan Phail 10:50 AM

i dont know if relatability is the factor, because i cant relate to crank but still enjoyed it


yeah the courtroom setting like i said in class just didn't do it for me. the security guards casually talking about their families while a serious case was occuring kind of detracted me from the seriousness of the situation


but you are missing the point kristyna monster was more than just jail


The dialogue is written how they speak


how could everyone dig deep into MWB but just scrtach the surface of monster


because of the way monster is written it it more centered around the courtroom than steve


-_-


GOOD QUESITON SHANE


it was about the struggles of people within underserved communities


lol


Yeah i agree with Shane I think people can't get passed the fact that he was in jail


trying to find your way out


SAHNE ASKS: how could everyone dig deep into MWB but just scrtach the surface of monster


the dialogue in MWB complete pulls the reader into the world that danny and uno are a part of


Yeah, I feel like it was all about what Stephen was caught up in


i could't get past the movie screen write set up


And how that wasn't his fault. just a part of the niehgborhood traditions and roles

Luke Lyons 10:51 AM

What exactly are you looking for people to say shane?


The diolouge is emotionally raw- stripped of some of the evasive techniques we've seen in earlier books. So it feels honest to us.


the dialogue just seems real. like it's actually out there happening in the world


@Shane could you relate to Monster more?

Evan Phail 10:52 AM

for me, Monster was another law and order episode


i agree with luke.


I think the dialouge and the characters in MWB made people more able to dig deeper


MAYEB IT WASNT AN ISSUE OF IDENEITY BETWEEN THE TWO BOOKS BUT SETTING OR STRCUTURE


yeah the use of mexican dialect was important in being able to differentiate the different cultural settings in mexican whiteboy


HA EVAN!


I liked Monster, I felt sympathy for him, I felt awkward around Danny


i agree with evan


NICE KATIE


I didn't feel like any of the characters in Monster were personable like they were in MWB

10:52 AM

so you had more interest in their situations


It wasnt that I could relate to monster more, it just reinforced the stereotypes and the institutionalized oppression


I barely got id out of monster. Seemed to me it was only in the end when he was lamely trying to find it that I noticed it


@evan and MWB was like another lifetime movie to me..@Luke i cannot tell people what to say which is why i asked the questio you all should tell me


as Steven's attorney kept saying


YES SHANITA!

Evan Phail 10:53 AM

yeah, i can see that Shane


I agree megan, they were so pidgeonholed by being in a court room i didnt know what was being real or not


Monster asks us to envision conditions and a social enviorment that we have no contect or connection to mwb we can at least connect with the issues of cultural identity


Exactly Shanita


i agree shane

10:53 AM

didnt think of it like that


maybe i just didnt connect with monster because of the way it was written.


i like the ending of monster for sure. it was so much more interesting for me than the most of the book. it almost seems as though he's still unsure of his identity


Our chat kind of enforces on how these books like Monster get brushed off


NOW YOU ARE ALL THEROIZING...REMEMBER, THEORIZING ISNT ABOUT ANSWERS. ITS ABOUT THE JOURNEY TO DFINDING ANSWERS


maybe i could relate to MWB because i'm white? I honestly couldnt tell you. I just hated monster so much because of how it was written


@chris, so there is cultural identity in monster? is that what you are saying?

10:54 AM

is no*


I could relate because of the religious division in my family


maybe if it was written better then you would be able to at least understand it more


it didn't even have to be cultural, just an ID divide


yeah monster's structure was just awful for me to read. i had trouble adjusting to the many different names in the courtroom


if what was written better


it would've been a lot easier to watch haha


WOW. YOU ALL DONT NEED ME. LOVE THIS DISCUSSION


in both books letters were used to help us get to know the charcters


@shane which book did you connect with more?


OK-- what was the point of MONSTER


yeah, i think i would like to watch the movie of monster but reading it didnt do anything for me


I feel liek that's what we are all disagreeing on

10:55 AM

What message it was trying to convey


Caley, exactly. who was telling the truth? one of the big problems I had with monster

10:54 AM

how was I supposed to take anything seriously?


the point of monster was to expose how the system works, and the unfair, biased parts of it


I think the point of Monster was that it had a Black protagonist, thats not seen in literature, esp YA


SO was it about Stephen, or the system


I agree with Caley


HMMM. AMBIGUITY IS A RHETOERICAL MOVE. SO SOME OF YOU DID NOT LIEK THAT


it's representiing stuff that does happen, though like a Law and Order episode


The system and how the world view people from these neighborhoods and race


in monster you were easily able to tell who was telling the truth


K so do other people agree with that? Because I think thats the differentiation we need to make


in the book steven kept repeating


yea that is tru


if you convince yourself that ur innocent u are


like com'on Steven's lawyer did not even believe him

Evan Phail 10:57 AM

in monster, if its about the system it should be in movie format, if its about steven it should be in journal format


i agree with shanita, though steve is innocent in the end i still didnt know if that was the truth. i had trouble with that


But Myers did both..


@hannah, i really do not like that whole "connection" thing because I do not feel that i need to connect with a book to like it. I was not on trial but i liked monster, i was not having some idenity crisis but i liked MWB, i was not worried about heorin but i iked crank. I just alot of peope are hung up on finding a connetion that they miss the point


i agree with evan


its because we want that "america ending" where everything gets tied up nicely


agrred Shane


i agree with evan


@Shane there is but the experience of Danny is fairly close (outside of the cultural context) to the baseline stereotyped american experience. So despite the fact that that experience is much more common then we think we have trouble connecting.


agree with shane completely


hated the ambiguity. made me doubt the realness of the book. take what characters said seriously


sometime a lack of "connection" is a good thing


DO WE NEED TO CONNECT WITH TEXT? ISNT IT ABOUT AUDIECNE? OR MAYBE NOT


I agree with celeste


see i disagree


ANTEHR GOOD QUESITON ABOUT RHETOERIC....AUDIENCE

10:58 AM

AND AUDIENCE QUESTION


but too much journal format would just make it his diary


maybe we all aren't connecting because we arent the intended audience


SO much disconnect can be fascinating

Evan Phail 10:58 AM

the audience doesn't have to connect, the purpose can be to just open their eyes


sometimes it deprnds on how u as the reader take it


well since this is a YA book maybe a kid in high school would find it super cool to have a book about a court room done as a movie script

Luke Lyons 10:58 AM

how much is too much disconnect?


I think that in order to be effective for young adults, and help kids analyze their own positions and think healthily about their issues


@chris, but so is monster. what makes MWB more american, because he is half white? Those issues are happening in other books we read they were happening in monster and they are going to happen in push


if it was just his diary with no scenes in the court room then that with take away from the book @EVAN


they need to connect


opening their eyes is a connection


NICE KRITYNA....WE HAVE TO REMIND OURSELVES THAT WE ARE NOT THE AUDIECNE FOR THESE BOOKS


IT all comes back to identity position


yeah i agree eliss. it has a lot to do with interpretation of the text


i think there's a difference between connecting and relating to a text


I think we do need to connect with the text in order for it to have an impact on us, every book that I remember reading in high school had an impact on me, the ones i dont remember didnt


I liked monster in high school...and couldnt stand it this time around


i think you have to connect, but you don't have to relate


I think connecting on some level is part, or should be, of every book

10:59 AM

exactly lindsay


I see this as a middle school- very early highschool as far as it's age group


we do not need it to impact our lives


yeah i agree with linds, you dont need to relate to every text to understand what the author is saying


if you don't connect you put the book down


exactly, hannah


we just need to be able to have an understanding of teens who go through different things


I think we need to define "connect"


YOU HAVE ALL DONE FANTASTIC TODAY. I KNWO THIS WENT FAST BUT WE FINALLY GOT A CHANCE TO HEAR FROM EVERYONE


I didn't connect to Bree... But I was fascinated! I kept reading


maybe a question is, what does people mean by connection?


i agree hannah, it needs to amuse you or capture you or you'll move on


yayyyyy!!!! I can "talk"


I WILL COPY/PASTE OUR CHAT AND POST IT TO THE EWBSITE


for many of us the books we read do not really have connections to our lives like @Shane keeps saying


YES! CELESTE GOT TO TALK!


no that is not true. I read are you there god its me margaret and i sure as hell was not worried about having a period i did not connect but i loved the book


SO...GO GET A BAGEL!


YAY!


ahahhahahaha yay celeste!!!


so i do not understand yur point hannah


Hahaha oh wow, bagel time already


ate one while talking to you


YAY MICHELE!


yay its friday!!!!

Luke Lyons 11:00 AM

bagle time


that was quickkkkk


byebyebye have a great weekend everyone


and I should be able to talk on monday last surgery today


pay day


BAGEL!!!


CONGRADS CELSTE


Goodluck Celeste!!


$$$$$$$$$


bye guys!


!


yaaaaa celeste!!!!!!


goodluck celeste


yey!!

Evan Phail 11:00 AM

go dance


byeeeee


bye bye see u all on monday and be prepared to continue this discussion


HA EVAN!


hahaha


it is not over just yet


hahaha


love you celeste, i'll be thinkingggg of youuu <3


it really isn't over yet


<3


YES, WE'L CONTINUE WITH PUSH!


When is that due?



okkkkk


Tues?

11:01 AM

Sunday?


love youuu linds


CHEC THE SYLABUS KATIE...EVEN I DONT KNOW!


haha i love this chat


Haha ooooo OK!


ENJOY THE WEEKEND

11:01 AM

Christopher Shanley has left the conversation


how did they turn me into an emoticon??!


WEDNEDAY

11:01 AM

Tues blog due!


HA!'

11:02 AM

YEP KATIE


HAHA Lindsay


Michele, I haven't posted my MEX journal but I will, I had Biology on my mind, posting it ASAP


lindsay is ripped


that i am, han, thanks


THANKS DAPH


BYE!


BYE!


byesss


byeeeeezzzzz


BYE KIDSSSS try not to get mugged!

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